Ex-Premie.Org

Forum I Archive # 2

From: May 3, 1997

To: May 7, 1997

Page: 5 Of: 5


Jim -:- The kids -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 20:30:18 (EDT)
___Scott: M.'s kids? -:- Re: The kids -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 20:58:00 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: The kids -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 21:04:02 (EDT)
___x -:- Re: The kids -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 21:05:16 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: The kids -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 21:41:40 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: The kids -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 23:31:17 (EDT)

Jim -:- Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 13:13:59 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 15:03:06 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 15:11:41 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 23:27:35 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 23:55:17 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 07:40:14 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 07:43:51 (EDT)
___Scott -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 12:31:33 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 14:40:28 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 14:47:27 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 16:37:45 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 18:52:41 (EDT)
___Scott -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Mon, May 5, 1997 at 00:19:58 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Mon, May 5, 1997 at 01:27:52 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Mon, May 5, 1997 at 11:39:23 (EDT)
___Deena -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Mon, May 5, 1997 at 16:26:52 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Mon, May 5, 1997 at 19:07:53 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Mon, May 5, 1997 at 20:03:49 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Mon, May 5, 1997 at 21:46:22 (EDT)
___Deena -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Mon, May 5, 1997 at 23:49:40 (EDT)
___obwilliams -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 03:54:02 (EDT)
___obwilliams -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 04:10:59 (EDT)
___Mili to obwilliams -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 04:24:42 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 06:47:12 (EDT)
___Anon to Mili -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 06:52:26 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 08:24:33 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 08:29:32 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 08:30:57 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 08:36:19 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 10:09:33 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 10:48:15 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 11:06:33 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 11:41:35 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 11:54:04 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Invitation to Millenium '73 -:- Tues, May 6, 1997 at 21:43:57 (EDT)

Anon -:- Pied Piper again -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 09:22:33 (EDT)
___Mili -:- Re: Pied Piper again -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 16:42:19 (EDT)

Anon -:- MJ's telling the history of his pa -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 09:18:20 (EDT)

ANON -:- Was Jesus a Pied Piper? -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 09:10:10 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: Was Jesus a Pied Piper? -:- Mon, May 5, 1997 at 02:20:36 (EDT)

Scott -:- The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 07:07:22 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 09:14:49 (EDT)
___Scott -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 09:35:20 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 12:03:08 (EDT)
___Deena -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 18:21:39 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 23:32:13 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 00:31:47 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 14:31:32 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 14:44:46 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 16:43:09 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 19:13:13 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 19:40:38 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 19:52:41 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 20:06:16 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 20:32:37 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 21:15:17 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Sun, May 4, 1997 at 22:13:40 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Mon, May 5, 1997 at 14:36:27 (EDT)
___trickster -:- Re: The Sinking of the Titanic -:- Mon, May 5, 1997 at 23:39:03 (EDT)

Scott -:- Deena's last post -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 07:01:44 (EDT)
___Mili -:- Re: Deena's last post -:- Sat, May 3, 1997 at 08:40:52 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: Deena's last post -:- Mon, May 5, 1997 at 21:06:01 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: Deena's last post -:- Mon, May 5, 1997 at 23:41:46 (EDT)


Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 20:30:18 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: The kids
Message:
I keep wondering about those kids. What do they know? what are they like? Career aspirations? Anyone know?
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 20:58:00 (EDT)
Poster: Scott: M.'s kids?
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The kids
Message:
Jim, Am I correct in assuming you are asking about Maharaji's kids?

Scott
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 21:04:02 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Scott: M.'s kids?
Subject: Re: The kids
Message:
Yeah, sorry.
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 21:05:16 (EDT)
Poster: x
Email:
To: Scott: M.'s kids?
Subject: Re: The kids
Message:
I heard Hansi thinks it's a cult
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 21:41:40 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: x
Subject: Re: The kids
Message:
I heard Hansi thinks it's a cult Shit, man! You've got the greatest rumours! Again, who, what, where and ... no, I know why.
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 23:31:17 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: x
Subject: Re: The kids
Message:
Oh god, please let this be true! I'm laughing so hard I can't say anymore.
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 13:13:59 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
So here's a gem, my invitation to Millenium. I never did get any money -- SALUTATIONS AT THE SUPREME LOTUS FEET OF SATGURU MAHARAJI JI Dear Julie and Mom: The word of God is the supreme and conscious energy that has created the entire Universe, is keeping it alive in perfect harmony, and destroys it as each part of the divine plan unfolds. It is lila, God's play, a total act of his infinite love. The human body is the most precious gift in God's creation for in it, our soul can realize God and finally return home to the infinite love and peace that is keeping us alive. For this reason we are alive and for this truth we are searching with each breath we take. If we are open like a child, if we have faith in love, like a child, then we are most fortunate. For that Word, that Holy Name of God, has taken a separate body to save us from separation, from all fear and suffering. When Christ lived, he baptized his disciples in the Holy Spirit. The trinity is spoken of in the Catholic church -- thta the father, the son and the holy spirit are all one. The body of Guru Maharaj Ji is the son today. The Holy Spirit is that vibration that is making our breath move and keeping us alive. It is beauty, it is love, it is truly whe we really are. Every thought we have is our mind groping for truth; until we have received this perfect Knowledge of God, this is all we can do, and this is called, by great saints, suffering, damnation. But when we receive Knowledge for the first time in our life we have a choice: we can merge our consciousness, that which is asking to know its true identity, that is our real 'I', with the source of all life itself. This is freedom. This is salvation. This is the ONLY purpose for this human life. In these few months since I have received this very subtle and holy seed, I'm experiencing Maharaji opening me up to love itself, like a rosebud to the sun. [Yech!] It is oh so subtle and yet oh so real. I'm experiencing a thing that is infinitely more fulfilling than whatever all of my life's hopes and strivings, everything any friend or anything in the physical world, could ever do for me. And this is just the slightest of beginnings. Everybody who is practising this Knowledge and putting forth that effort is getting so high. It's fantastic. And Guru Maharaj Ji has said that he is going to reveal Heaven to the whole world. Millenium '73 (to which you should both come) is going ot be be the most important event in the entire history of mankind. It is spoken of in great detail in the Bible in Revelations. There, Guru Maharaj Ji will inaugaurate 1,000 years of peace on earth for the family of man. (next day --) Well I moved into the ashram last night and already I can sense how truly fortunate I am to be able to live in Guru Maharaj Ji's house and live under his schedule and serve under his direct orders. It truly is beautiful here. I didn't really think I would be moving in, before Millenium at least, but I had expressed to Ron, the genereal secretary, an interest to live here before and he called me yesterday and asked me if I wanted to move in. The whole hip movement, and really the whole values of our culture that we've grown up in, has always been based on the conception that the means for a person to find true freedom and this true happiness was in giving free reigns to his mind; that in allowing the mind to do whatever it might dream up inits groping for peace, once could eventually find the way of life that would appease us. But tihs is completely false. There isn't a thread of truth in it. In fact it is the very assumption that holds us back so much. Real freedom can only be experienced by knowing and practising that thing that can control our thoughts and allow us to experience our pure and perfect soul. Ad only the word of God is powerful enough and subtle enough to do this. Do you follow me at all? Because I've tried both, and every premie has. I've ahd complete liberty in my life to do whatever my mind wanted. Especially this past year or so. There were no restricitons at all on me and yet, without knowing how to control the mind, life is meaningless. Because there is nothing in the transient physical world that can satisfy our heart's lifelong call. It's like we can travel all over the world and have lots of money and time to do all of these things but the physical path, for all its apparent lusciousness and infinite wideness at first, is really very limited and very dry and, in the long run, at the end of a person's life spent in this fashion,one realizes that it can offer nothing. The path of love, however, the spiritual path, for all its seemingly dry qualities when first observed, is exactly the opposite in that it constantly opens up into the completely pure beauty, everything, everything, that life can offer. And this opening up is infinite. And nothing, not a thing, is lost. For the physical world was made neither for us to suffer in nor for us to escape from but to enjoy as a play, as a beautiful toy, an expression of love. So this knowledge is the thing that if practised with faith, all parts of it, Satsang, SErvice and Meditation and Darshan, or the physicla presence of the Lord, that can stisfy us. But it's not as if our mind is changed after we get knoweldge [ha, ha, ha]. It's just that for the first time in our lives we know a place inside that is calm and full of love and bliss and, if we choose, we cna experience it. But -- and this is how Millenium ties in -- we're completely missing the point if we expect peace to come and get us. You see, that peace is already here, it's keeping the whole universe alive. It's up to us to come to the peace, and then we can have the complete experience. And that's why Millenium is called 'a thousand years of peace for people who want peace.' Because Guru Maharaj Ji is really running the whole show and he is, right now, establishing peace, Heaven , on the planet. But dow we want to experience it? It's all up to us. The people who go to Millenium will be the ones who will experience the most amazing thing internally, but those who read about it in the papers will just be observers, scratching their heads and trying to figure out what's happening. So really it would be fantastic, fantastic if you two came. You know it's going to be very, very well run and all of the parents of premies are going to be in their own hotel (in which the Mahatmas wil be staying also) [funny, how that still wasn't enough]. And the charter costs only $225 including everything. Only premies and parents or children of premies can go on the charters so you're really lucky. [yes, well..] And after Millenium I won't be able to come back to Toronto anyway because there is so much to be done here and ashram residents don't det a chance ot travel around. So please come to the most beaustiful and historic event in the history of the planet. Don't THINK THINK THINK about it, just come. It is by all means possible. Many of my friends' parents are coming. By the way Julie, Grant, Ivy's brother, received Knowledge when Mahatma Ji was here and so did Paul Gellman. You know this isn't the first time I've told you about Maharaj Ji, but how can I possibly do anything else? Soon, you'll be asking me how I could have only written letters to you when I knew that God was walking on the planet. Also,[ my favorite part] in this material world this is the touchiest of all, but I am desparately in need of money myself, as I have no money for my own flight and the money must be in very, very soon. I'm working now, I have a far out job in a carpet store called Jordan's Rugs, but all of the ashram money goes into propagation and Millenium itself is in great need of money. So all ashram residents, and it's working out that most of the community for the smae reasons, has to ask for money fromfamily and friends. So please, I would very much appreaciate it if you can send me whatever you can. Well I've written a fairly long letter now and the typing's getting really scattered. So much love to you both, Jim P.S. You should pick up the most recent 'And it is Divine.' It's fantastic.
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 15:03:06 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
This is exactly the sort of stuff I wrote at the time. It could have been my words aged 17. So hopeful, so naive in regurgitating what you had been told. ...well Jim. You were a different person then, for sure! I am quite touched that you shared that potentially embarassing stuff. I have a friend who kept my letters to him from that time ,written on light blue notepaper headed with a picture of MJ in full Krishna regalia. I can't tell you how closely my letter resembles your's in it's youthful enthusiasm. Lovely!
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 15:11:41 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Yeah, sheep to slaughter. The first part of my letter was handwritten around pictures of Maharaji I'd cut out and taped on paper. I also drew colourful rainbows around each page. The second part -- after I'd moved into the ashram -- was typed on DLM letterhead which had only large block letters asking 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?' at the top. The envelope has another rainbow with the Soul Rush hand mudra tucked in its pathway. There's also another picture of Maharaji and some more general salutation stuff on the envelope. As for embarrasing, what in the world are you talking about? :)
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 23:27:35 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
I went to the Houston event in a truck that the San Diego premies had put together out of a small moving van. I think that it held about 20 people in 2 levels in the back. It did have a rainbow paint job and a few windows. People were always suprised when we stopped and all these people came piling out. I slept at the truck in the parking lot during the event. No hotel for me. I ended up siting next to a married couple. The guy tapped me on the shoulder and said, Remember me?. You're the one who gave me the leaflet. A funny conincidence. I did some back stage work setting up the sound system. Somehow I ended up being an assistant to the guy who was in chage of the whole audio-video setup. He had previously done some directing work for some NBC specials I believe. I had a great time at the Millenium event. An interesting band, huh? My favorite song was At the Feet of the Master. Nice singing. Of course I used to have the album as well as the Jiva stuff and the original premie album with Spread This Knowledge and King of Kings. I first saw them perform the songs in London in 1972. Great stuff. And yes, one time while listening to her beutiful high voice rise I had a very unusual experience of existance. Regards, Chris
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 23:55:17 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Yes, Chris, you are extremely superficial. You've already proven that. What I want to know is if you enjoy playing the fool. Come on, Chris, do you? You're such an idiot. If I wanted to discuss Germany in 1937, the pressures, pride and horror of the third reich, what would you talk about? The beer? Answer this, if you don't mind -- do you do this intentionally just to piss people off?
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 07:40:14 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Jim, Jim, Jim... Chris has given Maharaji his mind. What are you from the void?
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 07:43:51 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Jim, Jim, Jim... Chris has given Maharaji his mind. What are you from the void? Oops... missing verb. What are you EXPECTING from the void?

If Scott has some filter to eliminate gibberish, that would have been caught. But then Chris wouldn't be able to post here...
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 12:31:33 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Jim, What an amazing letter. I too remember feeling alternating waves of fanaticism , but mixed with an ocassional feeling of subconscious restraint. I remember giving 'Prachar Sat Sang', (now there's an old word), to a few individuals on certain occasions when I felt really 'fired up', and watching as these individuals seemed to get 'swept away' in my enthusiasm. Somehow there always seemed to be a 'jinx factor' though. I never followed through with any of these individuals, thus jinxing my own efforts to 'convert them'. Now, in retrospect I beileve it may have been a part of myself that knew there was 'something rotten in Denmark'. Scott
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 14:40:28 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Yes, Chris, you are extremely superficial. You've already proven that. What I want to know is if you enjoy playing the fool. Come on, Chris, do you? You're such an idiot. If I wanted to discuss Germany in 1937, the pressures, pride and horror of the third reich, what would you talk about? The beer? Answer this, if you don't mind -- do you do this intentionally just to piss people off?
What do you want me to do? Shed tears for the letter you wrote Mr. Arrogant? I did not have a problem at the Millenium event. Unlike you I do not relate it to a Nazi gathering. You certainly have made clear what your disgusting viewpoint is.
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 14:47:27 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Jim, Jim, Jim... Chris has given Maharaji his mind. What are you from the void? Oops... missing verb. What are you EXPECTING from the void?

If Scott has some filter to eliminate gibberish, that would have been caught. But then Chris wouldn't be able to post here...
This is Scott's site and he certainly can censor it if he so desires.
Brian, do you also make the analogy of Maharaji and his students with Hitler and the Nazis as does Jim?
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 16:37:45 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Chris, you really don't know how to think straight. The analogy is an interesting device. Check it out.
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 18:52:41 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
You left room for doubt in your mind, did you? Today a friend told me about an argument he had with two other old friends of ours both, both old premies. They wee saying that Jim -- that's me -- is out to lunch because a) I never had a religious background before Knowledge, hence I jumped in with no antibodies and accepted the 'whole thing' whole hog; 2) I never really meditated and thus missed what it was all about. Premies here have said the same. To the first point I say bullshit. First, the ashrams were filled with people from all sorts of relgious stripes. My secular background was just one of many. More importantly though, much more importantly, think what they're saying. They're actually saying that Maharaji couldn't be trusted. Those of us who thought otherwise were fools. While I agree that I was a fool, the important piece of the puzzle tthat anyone with half a brain can see is that Maharaji's a liar. If he's NOT a liar, then I was no fool. If I was a fool, he was a liar. As for the second point, wrong again. I used to meditate a lot. What else did I have? No sex, drugs or rock and roll, it was all searching for a ride on Kabir's secret swing of love for me!
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Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 at 00:19:58 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Jim, You already know my theory as to why I believe you fall on the 'far end of the spectrum' as far as your feelings towards M.. Sounds like your friends friends are entirely out to lunch to me. I'm curious about your 'religious antibodies' thoughts. I would have to admit that with me, the 'jinx factor' seemed to be a fairly consistent thing. I only recall two times when I honestly felt the dynamics of being able to convert others kick in. During both of those times, as I said, a subconscious part of myself seemed to step in and subtly 'apply the brakes.' I also felt this same 'Jinx factor' kick in when I was a Catholic seminarian. While I felt that a part of me truly wanted to swallow the bait hook line and sinker, there was always a sort of subconscious 'gag mechanism' that prevented me from ever doing so. I could never successfully sell the Catholic church to others, I guess because I wasn't truly sold on it myself. Gotta admit though, I sure passed up on a nice life style and a steady job. Did you ever experience a part of yourself seeming to step in and sabotage your efforts to 'spread Knowledge'? Personally, I believe that the power of 'Truth' is such that when a person truly finds it, he or she stops sabotaging him or herself. Until then, he or she will seem to continually be caught up in one difficulty or another, thus mirroring his or her true inner state of conflict. Ever experience any of this while a premie?

Scott
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Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 at 01:27:52 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
While I felt that a part of me truly wanted to swallow the bait hook line and sinker, there was always a sort of subconscious 'gag mechanism' that prevented me from ever doing so. Sorry to jump in on something that is so obviously between you and Jim, but maybe this is where there is a big difference in the over-the-years results. When I met Maharaji was the FIRST time in my life that I felt able to jump into something - hook line and sinker. I had tried to be a good Catholic, a good Jew, a good Protestant at various points during my childhood. I had tried to join various 'spiritual' groups, but always backed out at the last minute because SOMETHING about them didn't feel right. Just as you mention (above). But that didn't happen with Maharaji. Quite the opposite. There were no warning sirens that went off, no part of myself trying to sabotage any part of practicing Knowledge. I already told you that I came into this a total skeptic. Worse - I was pretty negative to all the pronouncements and claims that had been laid on me. It amazed me that I found someone who DID seem to be telling the truth, and I decided to put my trust in that. And I was further amazed to discover that I COULD. Innumerable experiences where I discovered that, in any other circumstance I would have clammed up and been unable to continue, here I discovered that I had the freedom to act, to be. I won't bore you with specific instances. If you want to hear them, let me know.
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Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 at 11:39:23 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
A few years ago my mother pulled out a stack of letters from me during my DLM ashram years. The ones prior to about 1978 were just like Jim's. I wanted to burn them all. It showed how innocently believing I was. I even wrote very bad poetry and quoted one of those syrupy Suzi Bai love songs (Green were the Hills wasn't it?). That was a great feeling at the time, but it was also pretty dangerous because it made me very vulnerable to scoundrals and it made me a perfect tool for propogation on behalf of the scoundrals.
I found that converting people to GMJ had a lot to do with my prior relationship with them. People who loved me and trusted me, in some cases received knowledge and followed GMJ for a time. Every one of them left GMJ before I did and they have nothing positive to say about him, by and large. Later, they told me that they trusted what I told them because of who I was to them, and if I said I was having the ultimate experience and that GMJ was the perfect master just like Jesus was, they would give it a try. I also really believed what I was saying, and I think that came across as well. There were, however, people who saw through the nonsense when I couldn't. They tended to worry about and/or feel sorry for me, but knew better than to get involved themselves. In this process my brother and his wife became premies (with disastrous results that I will relate sometime in another posting) as well as my sister, several friends from prep school and college, a couple of co-workers, and even a professor from college days, although he never did much more than receive knowledge, go to one festival, and quietly depart. I have some guilt about what I did to some of these people, particularly my brother because of the negative effects it had on his marriage and family.
After 1978 there are no more such letters in my mother's desk drawer, even though I remained in the ashram until 1983. I stopped trying to propogate GMJ, I think, partially because I was pretty miserable myself and didn't have much positive to say. I, by that point, had just hunkered down into the surrender/devotion/service demands that GMJ was making and just trying to survive. Propogation when you fell that way feels pretty hypocritical. As a community coordinator in DLM I had to give introductory satsang but by then I knew all the words and could get through it just like a job. I did it as little as possible, however. I was also beginning to feel on a deep and repressed level, what a liar and a fraud GMJ was. It takes a long time for that to come to the surface, because I resisted it so strongly -- such a realizatin meant that my entire world was literally falling apart and all the years I had devoted to him was a waste.
Those innocent days were fun around Millenium, nevertheless.
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Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 at 16:26:52 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
JW- Please do share what happened to your brother. I could really relate to friends receiving knowledge after you. Same happened to me. Everyone noticed a change and wanted to check it out. Same thing about most dropping away afterwards etc. Must have happened to alot of people. Does it bug you that ex-premies tend to feel that you can't be REALLY happy without being a premie. Fortunately my husband is discovering differently. I mean, some premies can be diplomatic but the fact remains that alot of them feel as MJ feels: that everything is illusion except the TRUTH he reveals, which once you are CONSCIOUS(NESS) of, then you will experience BLISS. That is still spoken of today as it was in the old days. Pretty head swelling belief system. Could explain alot of the arrogance on this site. MJ is always being critical and making fun of premies who approach knowledge as if it is a social club. He mocks chit chat, friendships, family etc. Premies laugh and then afterwards get up and hug each other as they walk out the door to party. Premies who are serving MJ closely, on the other hand, make an effort to focus only on SERVICE, SATSANG and KNOWLEDGE. They try to encourage other premies as well but since all the hard pounding is too cult -like they do it as gently as possible. Insructors and co-ordiators pass this on to local contact people. MJ must get pissed off by how little of his message gets through. And now days all the info shared with contact persons is straight from the horses mouth because that is what MJ wants. That is one of the main reasons I started to see the deception and cult characteristics. It become increasingly obvious that what I had once blamed on the so called ORGANIZATION, couldn't be anylonger. By the way, haven't heard from you, thought you might be calling?
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Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 at 19:07:53 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Deena
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
I'll write about my brother in the near future. He just recently died of cancer at age 47 and so it's all a little too close for me at the moment, but I think it would be helpful to talk about it.
I'd be happy to call you. Do I get your number from Jim?
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Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 at 20:03:49 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Not at first but, like JW, perhaps towards the end. For the first half of my premieship -- that's '73 to '77 I gave satsang with full heart and no misgivings. Later it got hard for me to tell people that you just 'keep getting higher and higher' as I knew that was a lie. I just wish I would have picked up more girls. OP cleverly spoke of satsang as a 'mating call.' Not just for Maharaji and his mahatmas but for us average folk. Now THAT's where I used to sabotage myself. Just when I started to warm things up I'd turn it all over to Maharaji. Sucker or what?
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Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 at 21:46:22 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Brian, do you also make the analogy of Maharaji and his students with Hitler and the Nazis as does Jim?

I COULD... but it wouldn't convey the message any better than Jim's attempt to reach you did. He was referring to your inability to even FEEL the embarrassment that others reading his letter felt for him, and to the way you CHOSE instead to reminisce about that fun time we all had in Texas. Granted, it was much more fun than the drive home to the timeclock world which had gone COMPLETELY unchanged by the 'great event'. I was fortunate that I never put anything in writing to freeze my mind state in time like he did. I told people about Millenium verbally, and enough time has passed that they (and I) are able to remember me as being much less gullible than I actually was at the time if they so wish. I can't explain that level of gullibility to you, Chris. You're still sitting in the Astrodome waiting for the 2nd feature to start.

Look... MJ's gonna keel over deader than Millenium one of these days. If you're lucky, you'll outlive him. Otherwise you're going to have to re-adjust your whole justification for your life. Someone on the 'inside' of the organization that is currently distributing Cosmic Truth Comic Videos (at 16 bucks for 4 minutes) will decide FOR you who your new 'Lord' is going to be. You'll re-decorate your room in MJ Junior pictures and revise your vocabulary to reflect a new Perfect Master's nameji. (Personally, I'm betting on the son that's being kept in low profile. Dunno if Marilyn will actually be able to go along with it or not. If she values her lifestyle as much as Mata Ji did, then she'll find it in her heart to be the Lord's widow AND mommy.)
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Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 at 23:49:40 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
I'll write about my brother in the near future. He just recently died of cancer at age 47 and so it's all a little too close for me at the moment, but I think it would be helpful to talk about it.
I'd be happy to call you. Do I get your number from Jim?
Yes-please call and I thought you had already gotten the number from Jim. He'd be happy to give it to you. And once again I take this opportunity to thank Jim for his 'calmpassion' with me. He is ridiculed and criticized so much here as if he wasn't even human...when I know him to be very much so. Of course I'm not saying this to you JW...
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 03:54:02 (EDT)
Poster: obwilliams
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
You left room for doubt in your mind, did you? Today a friend told me about an argument he had with two other old friends of ours both, both old premies. They wee saying that Jim -- that's me -- is out to lunch because a) I never had a religious background before Knowledge, hence I jumped in with no antibodies and accepted the 'whole thing' whole hog; 2) I never really meditated and thus missed what it was all about. Premies here have said the same. To the first point I say bullshit. First, the ashrams were filled with people from all sorts of relgious stripes. My secular background was just one of many. More importantly though, much more importantly, think what they're saying. They're actually saying that Maharaji couldn't be trusted. Those of us who thought otherwise were fools. While I agree that I was a fool, the important piece of the puzzle tthat anyone with half a brain can see is that Maharaji's a liar. If he's NOT a liar, then I was no fool. If I was a fool, he was a liar. As for the second point, wrong again. I used to meditate a lot. What else did I have? No sex, drugs or rock and roll, it was all searching for a ride on Kabir's secret swing of love for me! greetings. I love Kabir, too. In one poem he says something about 15 seconds of that swinging had made him a slave to that love.Sitting down and putting your body in the position of meditation or practice is completely different than actually swinging. That you nver regret. if M is bad, or a liar, forget about him. Just let it go. Get on with your life.
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 04:10:59 (EDT)
Poster: obwilliams
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
A few years ago my mother pulled out a stack of letters from me during my DLM ashram years. The ones prior to about 1978 were just like Jim's. I wanted to burn them all. It showed how innocently believing I was. I even wrote very bad poetry and quoted one of those syrupy Suzi Bai love songs ('Green were the Hills' wasn't it?). That was a great feeling at the time, but it was also pretty dangerous because it made me very vulnerable to scoundrals and it made me a perfect tool for propogation on behalf of the scoundrals.
I found that 'converting' people to GMJ had a lot to do with my prior relationship with them. People who loved me and trusted me, in some cases received knowledge and followed GMJ for a time. Every one of them left GMJ before I did and they have nothing positive to say about him, by and large. Later, they told me that they trusted what I told them because of who I was to them, and if I said I was having the ultimate experience and that GMJ was the perfect master 'just like Jesus was,' they would give it a try. I also really believed what I was saying, and I think that came across as well. There were, however, people who saw through the nonsense when I couldn't. They tended to worry about and/or feel sorry for me, but knew better than to get involved themselves. In this process my brother and his wife became premies (with disastrous results that I will relate sometime in another posting) as well as my sister, several friends from prep school and college, a couple of co-workers, and even a professor from college days, although he never did much more than receive knowledge, go to one festival, and quietly depart. I have some guilt about what I did to some of these people, particularly my brother because of the negative effects it had on his marriage and family.
After 1978 there are no more such letters in my mother's desk drawer, even though I remained in the ashram until 1983. I stopped trying to propogate GMJ, I think, partially because I was pretty miserable myself and didn't have much positive to say. I, by that point, had just hunkered down into the surrender/devotion/service demands that GMJ was making and just trying to survive. Propogation when you fell that way feels pretty hypocritical. As a community coordinator in DLM I had to give introductory 'satsang,' but by then I knew all the words and could get through it just like a job. I did it as little as possible, however. I was also beginning to feel on a deep and repressed level, what a liar and a fraud GMJ was. It takes a long time for that to come to the surface, because I resisted it so strongly -- such a realizatin meant that my entire world was literally falling apart and all the years I had devoted to him was a waste.
Those innocent days were fun around Millenium, nevertheless.
Your post is sad. I'm sorry you weren't feeling good during your years in the 'shram. That, however, was ultimately YOUR responsibility, not M's or any of the DLM scoundrels. Knowledge is real, and impeccably beautiful. Everything else, and I mean everything is constantly changing; ya got to keep loose. Hope yer having fun now.
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 04:24:42 (EDT)
Poster: Mili to obwilliams
Email:
To: obwilliams
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Knowledge is real, and impeccably beautiful. Everything else, and I mean everything is constantly changing; ya got to keep loose. Hope yer having fun now. Hear, hear!
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 06:47:12 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: obwilliams
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Your post is sad. I'm sorry you weren't feeling good during your years in the 'shram. That, however, was ultimately YOUR responsibility, not M's or any of the DLM 'scoundrels.' Knowledge is real, and impeccably beautiful. Everything else, and I mean everything is constantly changing; ya got to keep loose. Hope yer having fun now.

Where do you simpletons get this ridiculous notion that Maharaji or other 'scoundrels' don't have any responsibility for the way others suffered under their influence? Are you living on another planet? Are you brain dead? Your post is beyond sad, it is a testimony to your utter hopelessly banal stupidity and arrogance . Before you repeat this pathetic condescending party-line excuse again I suggest you tighten up the 'loose' bolts in your 'fun-befuddled brain and pay some attention and due respect to the experiences of those who don't think it's all so sparklingly immpeccable. Grow up for Christs sake! How dare you tritely and unkindly dismiss JW's suffering as being his responsibility without giving any sensible explanation except for your outrageously vacuous following comment that 'Knowledge is real and impeccably beautiful' It's all very fine for you to tell him to 'hang loose' but I don't suppose you've been through what he has ..Have you? WELL?? How the fuck do you know that he is not quite rightly and healthily pissed off at the abuses he experienced?
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 06:52:26 (EDT)
Poster: Anon to Mili
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Knowledge is real, and impeccably beautiful. Everything else, and I mean everything is constantly changing; ya got to keep loose. Hope yer having fun now. Hear, hear! You can fuck off too ....you Transcendental Transylvanian Terrorist you.
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 08:24:33 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: obwilliams
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
You left room for doubt in your mind, did you? Today a friend told me about an argument he had with two other old friends of ours both, both old premies. They wee saying that Jim -- that's me -- is out to lunch because a) I never had a religious background before Knowledge, hence I jumped in with no antibodies and accepted the 'whole thing' whole hog; 2) I never really meditated and thus missed what it was all about. Premies here have said the same. To the first point I say bullshit. First, the ashrams were filled with people from all sorts of relgious stripes. My secular background was just one of many. More importantly though, much more importantly, think what they're saying. They're actually saying that Maharaji couldn't be trusted. Those of us who thought otherwise were fools. While I agree that I was a fool, the important piece of the puzzle tthat anyone with half a brain can see is that Maharaji's a liar. If he's NOT a liar, then I was no fool. If I was a fool, he was a liar. As for the second point, wrong again. I used to meditate a lot. What else did I have? No sex, drugs or rock and roll, it was all searching for a ride on Kabir's secret swing of love for me! greetings. I love Kabir, too. In one poem he says something about 15 seconds of that swinging had made him a slave to that love.Sitting down and putting your body in the position of meditation or practice is completely different than actually swinging. That you nver regret. if M is bad, or a liar, forget about him. Just let it go. Get on with your life. Why?
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 08:29:32 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: obwilliams
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
A few years ago my mother pulled out a stack of letters from me during my DLM ashram years. The ones prior to about 1978 were just like Jim's. I wanted to burn them all. It showed how innocently believing I was. I even wrote very bad poetry and quoted one of those syrupy Suzi Bai love songs ('Green were the Hills' wasn't it?). That was a great feeling at the time, but it was also pretty dangerous because it made me very vulnerable to scoundrals and it made me a perfect tool for propogation on behalf of the scoundrals.
I found that 'converting' people to GMJ had a lot to do with my prior relationship with them. People who loved me and trusted me, in some cases received knowledge and followed GMJ for a time. Every one of them left GMJ before I did and they have nothing positive to say about him, by and large. Later, they told me that they trusted what I told them because of who I was to them, and if I said I was having the ultimate experience and that GMJ was the perfect master 'just like Jesus was,' they would give it a try. I also really believed what I was saying, and I think that came across as well. There were, however, people who saw through the nonsense when I couldn't. They tended to worry about and/or feel sorry for me, but knew better than to get involved themselves. In this process my brother and his wife became premies (with disastrous results that I will relate sometime in another posting) as well as my sister, several friends from prep school and college, a couple of co-workers, and even a professor from college days, although he never did much more than receive knowledge, go to one festival, and quietly depart. I have some guilt about what I did to some of these people, particularly my brother because of the negative effects it had on his marriage and family.
After 1978 there are no more such letters in my mother's desk drawer, even though I remained in the ashram until 1983. I stopped trying to propogate GMJ, I think, partially because I was pretty miserable myself and didn't have much positive to say. I, by that point, had just hunkered down into the surrender/devotion/service demands that GMJ was making and just trying to survive. Propogation when you fell that way feels pretty hypocritical. As a community coordinator in DLM I had to give introductory 'satsang,' but by then I knew all the words and could get through it just like a job. I did it as little as possible, however. I was also beginning to feel on a deep and repressed level, what a liar and a fraud GMJ was. It takes a long time for that to come to the surface, because I resisted it so strongly -- such a realizatin meant that my entire world was literally falling apart and all the years I had devoted to him was a waste.
Those innocent days were fun around Millenium, nevertheless.
Your post is sad. I'm sorry you weren't feeling good during your years in the 'shram. That, however, was ultimately YOUR responsibility, not M's or any of the DLM 'scoundrels.' Knowledge is real, and impeccably beautiful. Everything else, and I mean everything is constantly changing; ya got to keep loose. Hope yer having fun now.
Why do you say that -- ' I'm sorry you weren't feeling good during your years in the 'shram. That, however, was ultimately YOUR responsibility, not M's or any of the DLM 'scoundrels.' ? Why you say 'everything is constatnly changing'? Are you a graduate of new age studies or something? Where did you get your great knowledge? Also, why do you care if JW's 'having fun now'?
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 08:30:57 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Anon to Mili
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Knowledge is real, and impeccably beautiful. Everything else, and I mean everything is constantly changing; ya got to keep loose. Hope yer having fun now. Hear, hear! You can fuck off too ....you Transcendental Transylvanian Terrorist you. See? See? What'd I tell you? You start lacing into these guys and it's like eating gummy bears.
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 08:36:19 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Your post is sad. I'm sorry you weren't feeling good during your years in the 'shram. That, however, was ultimately YOUR responsibility, not M's or any of the DLM 'scoundrels.' Knowledge is real, and impeccably beautiful. Everything else, and I mean everything is constantly changing; ya got to keep loose. Hope yer having fun now.

Where do you simpletons get this ridiculous notion that Maharaji or other 'scoundrels' don't have any responsibility for the way others suffered under their influence? Are you living on another planet? Are you brain dead? Your post is beyond sad, it is a testimony to your utter hopelessly banal stupidity and arrogance . Before you repeat this pathetic condescending party-line excuse again I suggest you tighten up the 'loose' bolts in your 'fun-befuddled brain and pay some attention and due respect to the experiences of those who don't think it's all so sparklingly immpeccable. Grow up for Christs sake! How dare you tritely and unkindly dismiss JW's suffering as being his responsibility without giving any sensible explanation except for your outrageously vacuous following comment that 'Knowledge is real and impeccably beautiful' It's all very fine for you to tell him to 'hang loose' but I don't suppose you've been through what he has ..Have you? WELL?? How the fuck do you know that he is not quite rightly and healthily pissed off at the abuses he experienced? Boy, brother do you need attunment! What's wrong? Did you read the Celestine Prophecies or didn't you? Sometimes, Anon, you act as if you didn't. I hate to say this, because I don't want you think I'm sitting in judgement of you, because I'm not putting OUT judgement, I'm in my heartspace, but sometimes, you act in the old way.
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 10:09:33 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: obwilliams
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Welcome to wonderland. If you don't mind getting chewed up and spat out every once in a while, if you don't mind getting predigested redigested and shat out every once it a while, you might be an interesting new voice on this forum. But watch out. Jim not only barks, and not only bites - he devours. Are you ready for that?
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 10:48:15 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
I'm only helping you screen yourself for consistency. Your New Age training doesn't emphasize that trait and now you're all over the place. 'Maharaji's trickster -- oops, I didn't mean that!...er, if I meant it I didn't really mean it....er, I don't mean 'trickster', not like 'trickster', ... you know... er.. leave me alone already! ' OP, sometimes I feel like I'm just holding the towel.
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 11:06:33 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
it's just one of those leprechauns - maybe if you offer it some gold it'll go away.
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 11:41:35 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: obwilliams
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
No, you are blatantly incorrect. If you recall, I, and others like me, had turned over my life, my free will, and all my spiritual and material possessions to Guru Maharaj Ji. Since he held himself out to be the all-powerful, all-knowing perfect master, he either had the responsibility protect his devottees, or admit that that wasn't what he was. He did neither. If you do not understand that, you either weren't around for that part of history, you have been brainwashed in the current environment of historical revisionism, or you are just lying. I can't think of any other reasons why anyone would be so out of touch which what went on in Guru Maharaj Ji's world if they had any experience with it whatsoever.
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 11:54:04 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: obwilliams
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
Oh and also, if your fuzzy thinking is the result of keeping loose which apparently you define as flowing along in some sort of blissful ignorance, I have had quite enough of that thank you and I am not interested. I am however, having quite a lot of fun now, and thank you for your hopeful thoughts in that regard.
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Date: Tues, May 6, 1997 at 21:43:57 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Invitation to Millenium '73
Message:
A good funny!
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 09:22:33 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Old P are you there?
Subject: Pied Piper again
Message:
I like the v that got stranded on the 5th line. Cut and paste, cut and paste, cut and paste. There can't be an experience if that's the way we go about breathing. Is that how you treated the whole experience of being a premie? [sorry - just couldn't resist]

Old Premie...There are 2 ways I react to this site.
1:Immediately, with brevity and mistakes.
2:Pondering over the issues at length and then writing into a word processor with due care and attention to intelligibility, grammar etc and..Gasp..'Cutting and Pasting' whatever next!.

Surely it's obvious that this last post of mine is a perfect example of the latter?

Regarding: Is that how you treated the whole experience of being a premie?

How do you mean? Do you think I missed something? ....Do you think that for All those daily meditations..and yes, All Nighters too, I was just 'Cutting and Pasting'. What a dreamy idiot I must be in your eyes.

No.Enough is enough. Please listen carefully and let me tell you.

I was a happy, well-balanced, talented, educated, loving and sincere child who appreciated the gift of life that I had been given, and humbly aspired to fulfil my purpose through serving Maharaji who I truly believed would care for me as my Master.
Maharaji then proceeded to convince and coerce me, at a vulnerable time in my life, with the medieval religion that he preached. He then encarcerated me in his ashram for years and took everything I had to offer materially and spiritually. My life was, and remains, my most precious gift and I never needed Maharaji or anyone else to remind me. I knew that from my childhood without any third party claiming to be the source of my inspiration or preaching to me about what I gratitude I owed them.
I had so much to give in my life.Is it surprising that I felt disillusioned when at age 25 I found myself without a job or career,no family, my father dead, Maharaji laughing all the way to the bank, and feeling all the frustration of a having had my life's potential wasted? Yet there I was still polishing his brothers Lambourghini for the nth time.

Yes, I carried on practising Maharaji's prescription to the letter, giving him the benefit of the doubt. Yes I have seen him all over the world many many times. I have been a fully paid up member of the Maharaji travel club.
Since leaving the ashram I have been luckier than some. I have had the common sense and guts (apparently lacking in many premies) to be mercilessly conscientious and to look in the mirror to see what has truly become of my life. It has been enormously hard to face the reality, shake off the complacency and the anaesthetic denial and continue with hope and trust in Life. My suspicions and conclusions about the reality of Maharaji and the whole Guru, Master business have come gradually, over many years, as a result of using my common sense and discrimination whilst practising Maharaji's prescription to the letter with good faith.

Since leaving the ashram many premies have suffered terrible difficulties in trying to get going on their own. I have carved out for myself and my newly acquired family, what some would consider to be an enviable career and lifestyle. But I will always be acutely aware of how much more I could have achieved had I not been for so long sidetracked by the hypnotic delusions put upon me by Maharaji's world. If I have learned anything of value through all this it is to never entertain intimidation or allow my naturally better judgement to be suppressed by 'group think' or the suggestions of another.
I have discovered that Maharaji's philosophy is irrefutably and essentially that of the Radhasoami religion, repackaged and exported with some success. All this zealous talk of the Millenium, Peace on earth etc. is certainly a rivetting distraction for simpletons, but it does not help to clarify or illustrate what has or is currently going on.

Maharaji is a successful salesman for, at first, the 'techniques of meditation' (for which he unashamedly takes all the credit and insinuates is solely available through him). He then hits you with the devotional talk, he 'collects devotion', gratitude. He gets you hooked on videos and events to keep you involved and focused on him as the source.
I can honestly say that the period of my life when I had the most wonderful experiences in meditation was just after I was shown the techniques (aged 17) and I returned to my parents beautifully peaceful country home to practice. A good deal of the inner peace I experienced then was the relief that I felt as a direct result of being out of the repressive atmosphere of indoctrination (satsang,sevice etc.) which existed in the town where I had been told to go and live in, to be an aspirant.

From then on it was downhill all the way. I could not resist Maharaji's constant and inescapable demands for respect, love, devotion and surrender.
Have you noticed how dim these memories are becoming. They are being erased and replaced by the sinister campaign of revisionism that Maharaji and his automaton premies are conducting..with a worrying degree of success.

The louder that those hypocritic and brainwashed premies (like Mili) shout, the more that our actual memories, in all their poignancy, are surreptitiously deleted. One by one. They are not even replaced (Blade-Runner style) with happy ones. There is just a blank - and there remains only the awakening and clamourous billboard proclamations of Maharaji's new government which is 'so' reformed and full of hope and 'Ra Ra' promise. The smiley cheerleaders of the new regime swing opiate incense in the direction of the rapt and innocent new audience, who are soon themselves to become the unwary prey of the 'Pied Piper of our time'.

[sorry - jus,t couldn't resist]
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 16:42:19 (EDT)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Pied Piper again
Message:
It's not like that at all.
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 09:18:20 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Calling OldPremie
Subject: MJ's telling the history of his pa
Message:
Talking of the history of Shri Hans's activities that you say Maharaji is telling.
I would like to know what you make of this: (Briefly for now)

Is it not claimed that Maharaji's father received initiation from Anand Swarup (Sahebji Maharaj) , Dayalbagh 1913-1937 ?

This man was an extremely well known Radhasoami Guru and as such there is a wealth of information about him. Much more so than about Maharaji s father.
It turns out that even Anand Swarup s Guru s family disputed that Swarup was the rightful successor to the deceased Guru yet he still became the next Perfect Master for many. (and an extremely respected one )
(Ironically Anand Swarup s successor (Gurcharandas Mehta 1936-1975) was not accepted by members of Anand Swarup s own family! Despite this they all merrily started their own Satsangs and missions.)

Swarup was knighted by the British for establishing a thriving model community, indeed a city at Dayalbagh. Ghandi sent his condolences when he died in 1931. His followers set up many model businesses etc. and the motto of his community was Work is worship . The same motto that Maharaji imported into the West for his Divine Light Mission .

Shri Hans, MJ s father ,was not recognised at all by the followers of Anand Swarup as far as I can tell. In fact he doesn t even feature in any of the well documented histories of Anand Swarup (that I have yet read) .
Shri Hansji was an active member of the Arya Samaj (a radical and sometimes rowdy Hindu reform group) in his youth.
Anand Swarup, had been a member of the Samaj in his youth too.( see note below)
Hansji was also apparently initiated by another Perfect Master of that same time called Sawan Singh who was also extremely widely known, respected and well documented.
It is of course also an historical fact that Maharaji was not recognised as the rightful successor to ShriHansji by members of his family either. This is almost a general rule in 'Guru Successorship'.

Considering the history it seems that 'Successful Guruship' is possibly more about Politics than Truth .
I will support my assertions with references and further documentation when I get a moment to do so.


Exerpt from Radhasoami Reality - by Mark Juergensmeyer:
(57)Souvenir, pp.139-40.Other references to the Arya Samaj's attacks on Radhasoamiare mentioned by Gurcharandas Mehta in his introduction to Anand Swarup, Yathartha Prakash (Agra Radhasoami Satsang, Daayalbagh, 1954), pp vi-vii, andby Swarup himself in the 1934 preface to that book, where he refers to the 'unrestrained and vulgar criticism ' from the Aryas and other groups (p xvi) Elsewhere in that volume, Swarup quotes Swami Dayanand, leader of the Arya Samaj, as belittling Radhasoami teachings as being nothing but child's play(p 35) Despite this criticism,Anand Swarup was invited in 1931 to speak at meetings in Lahore arranged hy the Arya Samaj; and by a lower-caste organisation related to the Arya Samaj, the Jat Path Thorak Mandal (Souvenir, pp 215-16) The Dayalbagh history credits the persuasive power of Anand Swarup's book, Yathartha Prakash with dealinga crushing blow to the anti-Radhasoami propaganda that had previously been disseminated by the Arya Samaj (.Souvenir, pp 22 i-24)
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 09:10:10 (EDT)
Poster: ANON
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Was Jesus a Pied Piper?
Message:
That's the question I am asking you Anon, Deena, Jim, Douche,... It is widely known that there was a historical personality of Jesus. In the New Testament, it says that people followed him, and that they even left their jobs and possessions because of him. His commandment actually was to 'Love God First' - career, society, family, possessions come in second place (my interpretation). Almost exactly all of the things that you accuse Maharaji of (although you are making most of it up as you go along). So, tell me - was Jesus a bad guy or a good guy? Just curious about what you think.

This rings a bell with me.
On the Inward Self page I wrote that this Knowledge supposedly comes from a single living Perfect Master - A concept hungrily accepted by people eager to embrace the notion of the re-appearance of someone resembling the beloved figurehead of the religion of their upbringing.

For me this was Jesus. My mother told me, when I was a child, that Jesus was always looking after me. I believed her. We prayed together before bedtime and I developed a deep love in my heart for my image of Jesus. I saw in Jesus (like God) a bigger version of my parents. A bigger more potent source of the love I knew from them. ie. You are my Mother, You are my Father etc.etc. The principle being that to a fish, God is a bigger Fish. I always trusted in God and in his smaller (but still invisible) version, Jesus .

As I got older my childhood image of Jesus stayed close to my heart but was not as great a comfort to me in the hustle and bustle of the world into which I had been launched. My eventual aspirations to find the real God led me through much soul searching, reading, praying etc. and to cut a long story short I ended up like many people at the time, trying to gain access to inner experiences and the true vision through the likes of mescaline and LSD.
After this period I experienced a terrible Dark night of the soul and desperately begged God to reveal himself once and for all and to 'not let me be deluded under any circumstances please.' I was scared of the false Prophets that the Bible warns of and felt lost and adrift in a world of confusion. I wanted to find God and dedicate my life to serving Truth. I didn t have a clue what to expect as an answer to my prayer. Also at this time I saw (when lying in bed at school in the pitch dark) a brilliant white light in my head. I remember a 'room of light' and a feeling of bliss. This experience has often been accessible to me when I really try to see it. I do consider that it is possibly a distinct experience from the kaleidoscopic neural light shows or patterns that I have enjoyed under the influence of drugs or otherwise. Whether it is NDE, God or otherwise I would not want to venture.
Around this same time I read The gospel of Sri Ramakrishna whose words resonated deeply within me . He spoke of his initiation and of how (when he first meditated) his yearning automatically brought into his mind the beloved vision, from his youth, of the Divine Mother . (like Jesus was for my beloved and trusted, imagined Saviour). He added that with the sword of discrimination he clove the image (the concept) in two, in order to pass into the higher formless reality. Samahdi. His guru naturally had embedded a piece of glass into his forehead to facilitate his concentration upon the area of the third eye.

Thus when I went to see Maharaji in 1974 in Copenhagen I was immediately considering the possibility that he was the Lord returned and patiently awaited initiation. I was (like Deenas son I imagine) rather scared that he may not be 'True' and that he may be a dreaded false prophet . All I had to rely on was my sincerity. I had prayed from my heart to be shown the way, so what harm could I come to. I would be protected. I had done my best. i approached with the heart of a child.
Eventually I left everything to serve him. I often remembered Biblical stories of Jesus disciples and considered myself to be fortunate to now be, myself, a disciple of the living Lord.

My current disillusionment stems , not from Maharaji being un-Christlike, but from the unnecessary suffering that I was put through and the dawning suspicions that Maharaji was as fallible as you or I. Also I felt that Maharaji was possibly deluded and deluding others. This judgement doesn t make him the Devil in my mind either. Those dualistic concepts of ultimate Good and Evil make no sense to me. Therefore, whether or not he is like Jesus neither impresses or alarms me. I have not lost the ability to meditate and pray sincerely for a truer vision of Life by rejecting his authority. I can navigate the world without fear and to the best of my ability. I am not guiltily feeling that I owe allegiance or gratitude to Maharaji.

I agree that the techniques of meditation are not common knowledge in today s world and that people may possibly benefit by knowing them. That is another story. Maybe they needn't be so preciously secret. I remain unconvinced , from the way that Maharaji s teaches them, that the end justifies the means, in his case. Neither have I any no proof that Maharaji is the source of my experiences. I have assumed that for too long.
What really alerted me to the dangers of Maharaji s approach was the realisation that he was using and feeding fear into people in order to get what he wanted. His purported altruistic vision and noble motivation is not entirely believable to me under the circumstances. (maybe he just likes flying!) He also appears to enjoy his power over people rather immoderately.
If the theory that changing the world by changing peoples hearts holds true (and many argue that he has already brought peace to the world because of the positive experiences of relatively few) then he has demonstratively failed because of the condition of my heart. (which has had a narrow escape from disaster)
I think that the 'fire in my heart' has not been so healthily fed. It feels more as if someone chucked petrol on it and the resulting conflagration left it in grave danger of burning itself out violently and prematurely..

Oh .. and by the way, Mili. Maharaji s edict is clearly not 'Love God First' It is love the Guru first - (guru is greater than God remember). I don t look upon Jesus or Maharaji as being good or bad. I don t know about that. All I know is the bad effects my association with the latter has brought. No, that is not to say that there was no good either. Another thing. Having upwardly mobile, Young urban professional Yuppie aspirations may in some way describe me; but I am not ashamed of it. My materialistic leg is still considerably shorter than the other spiritual one. So I still limp through the world. Are you too young a premie to remember that Satsang Maharaji gave? Ah well..
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Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 at 02:20:36 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: ANON
Subject: Re: Was Jesus a Pied Piper?
Message:
Was Jesus a Pied Piper? If he wasn't, he certainly is planning to be one quite soon. I read the discussion about pinning down the date for his return over on the newsgroup: he's going to make all the Christians and little children disappear from the face of the earth, never to be heard from or seen again. I don't even have to say this: Sound familiar? I'm not going to comment on the post - I'm exhausted...
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 07:07:22 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
Dear Forum participants, - I can't believe that this has happened, but it has.... - Due to what I consider to be an unclear set of instructions for forum administrators, provided by the folks at Paradise, our most recent forum archive is no more! (namely the one that we were just in.) - I know you have put many hours of careful thought and consideration into your many excellent exchanges in this forum, as I have also tried to do, and it makes me feel absolutely awful that this could have happened. - For any of you who followed the thread about archiving, you will know that the archive feature at Paradise Forums is only two weeks old, and was written almost especially to meet our needs. - As I had explained in this thread, (now lost), I checked out at least 20 other forum providers and Paradise seemed to have the best package. (Forum providing is a relatively new thing on the web, and each of the other programs I checked had what I considered to be one or more serious problems with them.) There is an index of forum providers at Forum One Reviews. - My sincere apologies for this very major inconvenience and if anyone should find any better forum provider that you would like to recommend, please let me know. Meanwhile, I can only say that I feel it is unlikely that this problem will happen again. Sincerely, Scott
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 09:14:49 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
Re lost messages:
Don't despair! If you, or anyone, want to archive that page, I have the more interesting letters archived on my Database. I will send them all to you, Scott, privately if you wish.
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 09:35:20 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
Re lost messages:
Don't despair! If you, or anyone, want to archive that page, I have the more interesting letters archived on my Database. I will send them all to you, Scott, privately if you wish.
Dear Anon, Thank you so much! That would be most appreciated. Definately.

Scott
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 12:03:08 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
Scott and all, Funny thing about my links problem. Yesterday one, just one of the messages on the page, an old one at that, showed up as 'unread' on my page. I clicked it and it then looked 'read' as it should. I don't have a links problem anywhere else. Does anyone else out there have this problem?
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 18:21:39 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
Scott and all, Funny thing about my links problem. Yesterday one, just one of the messages on the page, an old one at that, showed up as 'unread' on my page. I clicked it and it then looked 'read' as it should. I don't have a links problem anywhere else. Does anyone else out there have this problem? Yes, same exact problem.
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 23:32:13 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
Scott and all, Funny thing about my links problem. Yesterday one, just one of the messages on the page, an old one at that, showed up as 'unread' on my page. I clicked it and it then looked 'read' as it should. I don't have a links problem anywhere else. Does anyone else out there have this problem? The links issue is because the queries to get messages are being reused. They are not unique. For example the query for your message that I am responding to is: http://www.pergatory.com/powerforum/pwrforum.exe?who=anything2&wh ich=MSG11.txt This same query was most likely used on a previous forum. For some reason anything2 is being reused instead of having a unique ID for each forum. Chris - packing computers into boxes, yeah!
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 00:31:47 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Chris and OP
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
So you're not an idiot. Great. What does that say about your refusal (inability?) to talk about Maharaji in more than superficialities? But, even more than that, Chris, I really want to know what you're doing here. You love to jump in on any topic only to pretend you're too stupid to understand what's really being said. Is this a game of yours? Like 'some men are born stupid, others are made stupid and others become stupid for God'? And, OP, if you're reading this I'd like you to comment please. Tell me honestly, what do you think Chris is doing here? Is he trying to fuck up the discussion? Keep it from going anywhere? Is he trying to remind us by example that life can be just fine when you pretend you've been lobotomized? The reason I ask you, OP, is that you've defended Chris -- and Mili -- before. In particular, you've said you thought Chris has a great sense of humour. I think that's a sick thought if I've ever heard one. Yes, I guess there is a lot of pornography on the net. But here, for example, I spent a fair bit of time typing this atrocious document from my past. It says a lot and it raises a number of questions, I think anyway, about this whole Maharaji thing. Chris, as you see, either pretends to be or is actually oblivious to all of it. Why do you think that is? Come on, OP, you keep asking us to accept you as being sincere. Well, now I'm asking you to express your sincere opinion. Why does Chris keep chirping in only to avoid exactly what's being talked about? [By the way, OP, you'll have to read his reply to my 'invitation to millenium' to see what I'm seething about]
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 14:31:32 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
It sounds like you were probably arrogant back when you wrote your letter and you still are. You just don't seem to learn. Except of course your law school stuff. Sure, I have seen and understand the type of letters that you posted. You were a fool to stick with Maharaji years ago if you got no enjoyment from it. I think that a lot of your dissapointment is the result of your arrogance. Was the Millenium event a bad trip for you? I wrote a letter to my parents to get some money to go to India in 1972. They suprised me and said fine, if thats what I wanted to do. I am sure that later I did harp on them a bit too much about Maharaji in the years that followed. My mom finally did go to a program with me 5 years ago. She had a suprisingly good time and met some great people. Chris
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 14:44:46 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
What is your problem? I tell you what's up with the 'read' links issue and you go crazy - g. I am sincere, I don't view the world from your idiot perspective. But you think you are so clever! You are stewing in your reward.
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 16:43:09 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
Why do you participate in this discussion?
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 19:13:13 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
Why do you participate in this discussion? Because I find people and their interaction with Knowledge interesting. It is an important topic.
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 19:40:38 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
Why do you participate in this discussion? I find quite a few interesting discussions on this page. It is too bad that more people don't participate.
I do have more interest in discussing issues with premies and 'ex-premies' than with your average 'Jim' or 'Joe' on the street. It seems that we do have common interests that at one time led us to Maharaji. He was a symbol of something that we were striving towards.
I do welcome your honesty and don't really mind your name calling. I can handle it. I do blurt out my own crap once-in-a-while. The discussion on this page is a bit of an experiment for me. I make mistakes and certainly don't have all the answers. There is certainly a lot I can learn. It does seem endless. I am giving it an honest go and will see how it turns out. Regards, Chris
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 19:52:41 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
Why do you participate in this discussion? I find quite a few interesting discussions on this page. It is too bad that more people don't participate.
I do have more interest in discussing issues with premies and 'ex-premies' than with your average 'Jim' or 'Joe' on the street. It seems that we do have common interests that at one time led us to Maharaji. He was a symbol of something that we were striving towards.
I do welcome your honesty and don't really mind your name calling. I can handle it. I do blurt out my own crap once-in-a-while. The discussion on this page is a bit of an experiment for me. I make mistakes and certainly don't have all the answers. There is certainly a lot I can learn. It does seem endless. I am giving it an honest go and will see how it turns out. Regards, Chris
Chris, we've got a credibility problem. I don't believe you. Now, I'd LIKE to believe you. Believe me. (?) So I've got to ask you, what's going on? Why is it even OP, another Maharaji supporter like yourself, agrees that you seem to be playing the fool? Is she wrong? Am I? Because that IS the impression you give, Chris. I have absolutely no doubt that if I ask you anything challenging, you'll avoid answering straight. Isn't that sad? I think so. But is it my fault or yours? Let's go back to this question I keep raising and you keep avoiding -- how can you say Maharaji's message is unchanged from '72 when back then he was saying he was God in human form come to save the world? Why haven't you dealt with this? I'm hungry, Chris. I'm hungry for your admission that his message is NOT the same. Like I said before, it's no more the same than Louis Farrakhan's would be if he said 9 things identical to what he said on Ted Koppel's show in the fall but left out the prophecy he then made that aliens would one day kill all the white people in America. Remember that analogy? And that's another thing. Do you honestly think that the thrust of that analogy has anything to do with Faraakhan, blacks, Koppel or aliens? Of course not. It's about changing messages. So why concern yourself with the container and not the substance inside? You've done that several times, most recently when you accused me of comparing Maharaji to Hitler. That simply wasn't the point, Chris. Do you or don't you understnad what I'm saying?
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 20:06:16 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
Cool it a bit Jim. At least Chris has the decency to participate. Does he have to answer your questions which are calculated to get a confession? I myself have overlooked responding to a number of questions addressed to myself. I think you could reserve some of your more vehement and aggressive cross-examining for people who are really guilty of war crimes like the aforementioned and infamous Mr D. Smith. Your picking on Chris because of the dearth of more appropriate criminals.
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 20:32:37 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
No way, Jose! I give Chris no credit for being here in itself, any more than I would a picket line. I've tried to engage Chris about a million -- no, literally I bet about 40 or 50 times - between here and the newsgroup. Each time he's teased me, avoided me and stuck around for my reaction. I invariably lose my patience and then he starts laughing. Little kids throwing schoolyard rocks at the teacher's window don't get credit for staying late after class. Yes he has to answer my questions! Just like I have to answer his. How else could we ever discuss this? Without that commitment -- or responsibility -- anyone, everyone, would just slink away as the talk gets interesting. No confrontation means no accountability. I'm not suggesting Chris is responsible for anything more than standing in Maharaji's line of fire. I never told Chris he had to do that. Neither did Maharaji. He's chosen to enter the fray but why? Come on, Anon, this is a good question, isn't it? I find it fascinating. Why is Chris here? Maybe you are right, in a way, though. Maybe I should turn the lights down on my Chris account. Maybe I should just accept that he will say nothing of import but always something nonetheless. Treat him like a village idiot. Is that what you suggest? How would you engage him? David Smith, for my money, is just another stupid premie. Any one of us could have ended up with his gig. Chris, OP, you or me. If he were here I hope I wouldn't treat him any differently. That is I'd try to talk with him respectfully and would take it from there. If he let me down I'd get pissed. If he didn't I wouldn't. The alternative is to disengage. I don't want to do that. I really don't want to patronize anyone here and by not expecting Chris to answer challenging questions I'd be doing just that. The 'Chris exemption' would then be awarded to premies too weak or afraid to turn a few lights on.
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 21:15:17 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
I know you're keen on logical confrontation. That's fine but I just don't hold out much hope on this being a totally successful adventure (although it has it's place and you are certainly the one for the job). The delusions we have all been entrenched in are extremely complex and are largely emotional, psychological issues. Denial is rife. I think most premies will only admit to themselves and others their hypocrisy etc. in a more forgiving atmosphere. Chris is here because, like you or I he is interested in and considering the exposes and accusations of falsehoods that are being presented here.Even if he has not said that in so many words, that seems likely to me to be the case. Premies may publically defend their delusions (and Maharaji) and appear to want to dilute, disrupt or distract from the line of questioning that you engage them in by avoiding the issues. My guess is that they are, all the same, deep down considering the issues.Digesting them. Isn't that ultimately a most satisfying outcome anyway? To expect them also to suddenly confess to ostrich-like behaviour on line is probably to much to ask of their ego's at this stage.
Treat him like a village idiot. Is that what you suggest? I thought you were treating him like a village idiot. Seriously though, the fact is that the 'kid throwing rocks at teacher' doesn't have to answer your questions at all! He's not in court.. He's sitting somewhere safely tapping impudent provocations at you on his computer probably smoking a fat joint into the bargain. He is successfully winding you up. He will certainly not be brought to justice
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Date: Sun, May 4, 1997 at 22:13:40 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
Yes, you're right I'm sure. Why, oh why can't I be more circumspect and measured? Is it any wonder they kept passing me up for jgood service posts whenever I was considered? 'Heller? Hmm... I don't know. Maybe not.' What I expect -- and this is me talking seriously now -- is that any premie who avoids talking frankly with me about Maharaji will walk away clear on the fact that something went wrong. 'Either Heller's an asshole or, perhaps, I'm being evasive.' Like with Lance Tane. There's no way in the world now that he can pretend even to himself that he's up for a rational debate about Maharaji. See, he used to brag tah he was. Right David? David, are you there? David? Anyway, Stirling had him in two moves flat and Tane started crying that just wasn't able to defend his beliefs as rationally as he thought he could. Is that worth anything? I don't know. I THINK so. Maybe I'M the village idiot. Finally, Anon, don't you think patronizing Chris would really be treating him like the village idiot? Here, I'm just treating him like a premie. How do you treat a premie anyway?
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Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 at 14:36:27 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
I don't want to intervene in the discussion about Chris, but I wanted to put in my two cents about Mr. David Smith. He may be stupid and he is definitely a premie, but I very much doubt many premies, stupid or smart, would have been able to do what he has done in the service of Guru Maharaj Ji. That is because, despite years of indoctrination and programming, in my experience, most premies actually retained a certain level of human values and decency. What I saw David Smith do to some ashram premies indicated to me that he was capable of ignoring all human decency and of inflicting a level of psychological abuse at a level I doubt many others premies would have been able to reach, even in the service of the Lord.
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Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 at 23:39:03 (EDT)
Poster: trickster
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: The Sinking of the Titanic
Message:
Dear Forum participants, - I can't believe that this has happened, but it has.... - Due to what I consider to be an unclear set of instructions for forum administrators, provided by the folks at Paradise, our most recent forum archive is no more! (namely the one that we were just in.) - I know you have put many hours of careful thought and consideration into your many excellent exchanges in this forum, as I have also tried to do, and it makes me feel absolutely awful that this could have happened. - For any of you who followed the thread about archiving, you will know that the archive feature at Paradise Forums is only two weeks old, and was written almost especially to meet our needs. - As I had explained in this thread, (now lost), I checked out at least 20 other forum providers and Paradise seemed to have the best package. (Forum providing is a relatively new thing on the web, and each of the other programs I checked had what I considered to be one or more serious problems with them.) There is an index of forum providers at Forum One Reviews. - My sincere apologies for this very major inconvenience and if anyone should find any better forum provider that you would like to recommend, please let me know. Meanwhile, I can only say that I feel it is unlikely that this problem will happen again. Sincerely, Scott only to be expected
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 07:01:44 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Deena's last post
Message:
Deena, I think I was the only one who got to read your post about Hitler's secretary before the 'Sinking of the Titanic', (Lost archive.) I hope you are able to repost at least a little of it as the question of the experiences of Hitler's secretary seemed to me to be very much to the point. - Scott
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Date: Sat, May 3, 1997 at 08:40:52 (EDT)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: Deena's last post
Message:
In case you missed it, let me fill you in. Deena thinks she was Hitler's secretary instead of Maharaji's. Another case of myopia for you Scott.
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Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 at 21:06:01 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Myself
Subject: Re: Deena's last post
Message:
TRA LA LAL AA LA LA OP's GOT A BOX! OP'S GOT A BOX WATCH OUT EVERYBODY OP'S GOT A BOX-DOUCHEBAG WHERE ARE U ME OLD SCUMBUCKET ? Did YOU Know OLdPremie has a box>Yes its true and she..she peeped in!I know.. of all things .Fancy! It won't come to any good though. NO! never. Remember I was the first to tell you you hear it here right? YEs you just do that. WHat? ah Isee you're worried. YOU HAVE GOOD CAUSE TO BE MY SON> Oh dear OH dear odear
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Date: Mon, May 5, 1997 at 23:41:46 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Deena's last post
Message:
you think you're going to hide down here? Ok, we'll BOTH sit down here and wait for Douche to get back. Let's hope the trickster doesn't start up again and we get lost in the shuffle.
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