Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum I Archive # 5 | |
From: May 21, 1997 |
To: May 28, 1997 |
Page: 2 Of: 5 |
Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 00:42:14 (EDT)
Poster: Kuokoa Email: To: Everyone Subject: Questions about GMJ Message: 1.What do you think is GMJ's net worth? 2.How is he using his wealth to spread this Knowledge. 3.How many business does he have? 4.Why does he need so many residences? 5.Why does he ask premies to come to these programs an continue to get further and further into debt. Is this being responsible? (I'm not questioning the high you get by going to the programs). 6.Am I just lost in my mind and shouldn't question? 7.Does GMJ owe us an apology for leading us into what appears to be a cult? 8. With all the wealth that GMJ has why doesn't he go public and open himself to a forum like this so we can communicate on a regular basis? 9.Do any of you premies remember the private satsang that he gave to ashram premies at a program held in Kissamee florida where he clearly said (I created you!), it seemed like the sermon on the mount that day! Your forum has inspired me to ask certain questions that need to be answered. I hope that all of us can reach a common goal of self realization that will utlimatly make this a better world to live in. I must assume that GMJ has
people checking this site out on a regular basis. It sure would be great If
you GMJ would be able to answer the many questions that I have as well as the
others on this site. Watching videos can be very plastic sometimes.
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 06:32:30 (EDT)
Poster: M Email: To: Kuokoa Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: You will find the true answers to all your questions by looking inside yourself. M
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 08:14:43 (EDT)
Poster: Brian Email: To: Kuokoa Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: 1.What do you think is GMJ's net worth? He's never gonna say. He's a modest little Lord Of The Universe. He doesn't even use that term to describe his splendor anymore. 2.How is he using his wealth to spread this Knowledge. His personal money isn't used. Premies' personal money is collected via sales of MJ Videos, Commemorative Spoons, T-Shirts, and appeals for funds from gullible premies delivered by obedient premies. 3.How many business does he have? You mean on paper? Only his accountant knows. But the main money tree is, of course, selling SeeMe/FeelMe/TouchMe Videos of himself delivering rambling discourse. 4.Why does he need so many residences? He's put on a bit of weight... 5.Why does he ask premies to come to these programs an continue to get further and further into debt. Is this being responsible? (I'm not questioning the high you get by going to the programs). He just loves them so much!! That and it's easier to sell them T-Shirts if they're present. (And you SHOULD be questioning 'the high you get by going to the programs'. Because, for a devoted devotee, the flip-side is the depression felt when they DON'T drop their lives and run off to see him every chance they get. The emotional dependency on a fantasy relationship with someone who has no real presence in a person's life is just like that of a young girl who papers the walls of her room with posters of her favorite rock star and lives in a dream that someday he's going to carry her off and marry her - e.g. Beatle Mania) 6.Am I just lost in my mind and shouldn't question? Being 'OUT of your mind' is more closely related to being lost. See any of Mili's posts for an example. 7.Does GMJ owe us an apology for leading us into what appears to be a cult? Not that he can see, no. 8. With all the wealth that GMJ has why doesn't he go public and open himself to a forum like this so we can communicate on a regular basis? He's not interested in what you have to say. 9.Do any of you premies remember the private satsang that he gave to ashram premies at a program held in Kissamee florida where he clearly said (I created you!), it seemed like the sermon on the mount that day! I missed that one, but
have heard glowing reports of the Lord In His Mind from other premies. My
favorite one is of him hollering that he could make premies turn blue and fly.
This from a man who needs plenty of jet fuel to lift his ass off the runway.
Don't suppose anyone out there has a transcript?
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 09:04:50 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: Wow just reading the postings I remembered the black depressions I used to go into when I couldn't go to see Maharaji and then I'd go through it all again when the blissed out premies came back with their stories of Maharajis Lilas. And of course the angst of going to see Maharaji Hocking your kids to do it and getting zit coming back confused and being told it was all in your mind. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 10:41:11 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: M Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: You will find the true answers to all your questions by looking inside yourself. M David, cut that out!
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 10:51:41 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: 9.Do any of you premies remember the private satsang that he gave to ashram premies at a program held in Kissamee florida where he clearly said (I created you!), it seemed like the sermon on the mount that day! Yeah I was there. No I don't remember it verbatim. I just recall that he made it far too clear that there was no turning back in Maharaji's world. Leaving the ashram was particularly treacherous particularly treacherous. There was nothing else 'out there' for us but maya. Besides, we shouldn't feel that bad, soon the whole world would be an ashram (i.e. they'd all be suffereing alongside us). The
'turn you all blue and make you float' bit was from the satsang he gave from
the main stage. That's when he threatened to have Raja Ji and his WPC tour the
future festival site ( the permanent one we'd all live on, but NOT in Guyana)
and rassal up stragglers who were 'delaying attending satsang.' That was the
festival everyone started splitting and we had do to a major talk-down at the
gate to keep them there. After all, what were we going to do with all the
yogurt?
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 15:19:31 (EDT)
Poster: Kuokoa Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: 1.What do you think is GMJ's net worth? He's never gonna say. He's a modest little Lord Of The Universe. He doesn't even use that term to describe his splendor anymore. 2.How is he using his wealth to spread this Knowledge. His personal money isn't used. Premies' personal money is collected via sales of MJ Videos, Commemorative Spoons, T-Shirts, and appeals for funds from gullible premies delivered by obedient premies. 3.How many business does he have? You mean on paper? Only his accountant knows. But the main money tree is, of course, selling SeeMe/FeelMe/TouchMe Videos of himself delivering rambling discourse. 4.Why does he need so many residences? He's put on a bit of weight... 5.Why does he ask premies to come to these programs an continue to get further and further into debt. Is this being responsible? (I'm not questioning the high you get by going to the programs). He just loves them so much!! That and it's easier to sell them T-Shirts if they're present. (And you SHOULD be questioning 'the high you get by going to the programs'. Because, for a devoted devotee, the flip-side is the depression felt when they DON'T drop their lives and run off to see him every chance they get. The emotional dependency on a fantasy relationship with someone who has no real presence in a person's life is just like that of a young girl who papers the walls of her room with posters of her favorite rock star and lives in a dream that someday he's going to carry her off and marry her - e.g. Beatle Mania) 6.Am I just lost in my mind and shouldn't question? Being 'OUT of your mind' is more closely related to being lost. See any of Mili's posts for an example. 7.Does GMJ owe us an apology for leading us into what appears to be a cult? Not that he can see, no. 8. With all the wealth that GMJ has why doesn't he go public and open himself to a forum like this so we can communicate on a regular basis? He's not interested in what you have to say. 9.Do any of you premies remember the private satsang that he gave to ashram premies at a program held in Kissamee florida where he clearly said (I created you!), it seemed like the sermon on the mount that day! I missed that one, but have heard glowing reports
of the Lord In His Mind from other premies. My favorite one is of him
hollering that he could make premies turn blue and fly. This from a man who
needs plenty of jet fuel to lift his ass off the runway. Don't suppose anyone
out there has a transcript? Thanks allot for your responses to my
open questions. Your answer to question #5 is interesting. I can surely relate
to the depression I felt when I didn't get to go to a program and also the
depression I felt once the high wore off and I had to go back to thie workaday
world and the stress that is out there. I suspect that GMJ is checking out
this site and probably collecting information on us guys. Wish he could
communicte directly with us in this forum.
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 15:27:45 (EDT)
Poster: Douche Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: Look Judge Jim, the days of strutting around in your ever-so-sharp WPC suit have long since gone, so back off. We're all grown up now and can look after ourselves. If M causes a few ripples on this increasing stagnant pond then where's the harm? It's better than listening to you constantly berating Mili, CD and all the other toe-kissers. Well that's what I feel like writing.
But I won't send it. Instead I'll count to ten and... oooops. I pressed the
wrong fucking button.
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 16:17:43 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Douche Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: Look Judge Jim, the days of strutting around in your ever-so-sharp WPC suit have long since gone, so back off. We're all grown up now and can look after ourselves. If M causes a few ripples on this increasing stagnant pond then where's the harm? It's better than listening to you constantly berating Mili, CD and all the other toe-kissers. Well that's what I feel like writing. But I won't send it. Instead I'll count to ten and... oooops. I pressed the wrong fucking button. Sorrry!
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 17:38:04 (EDT)
Poster: JW Email: To: Kuokoa Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: I think Brian has already given lucid answers to your questions. I have just one or two things to add: 1. GMJ's net worth, whatever it is, I'm sure is very large, and it came from large and small donations both to him directly and through the organizations that shielded him. A large portion of the money which was ostensibly raised for the "spreading of knowledge," also actually went directly to his opulent lifestle. The most blatant example of this was in 1979-1980, when he said he was fundraising for a "world tour" when he was actually raising money for his own, personal, Boeing 707 with gold bathroom fixtures and with unpaid servants to respond to his every whim. 2. Using funds to spread knowledge: At least in the past, admission charges (as well as the sale of religious trinkets), paid for the festivals he attended. In fact most of them MADE money for him, not even counting the hundreds of thousands that were donated when he did a darshan line. Mostly the local communities raised the money and paid for all the expenses associated with doing an introductory program in that community when at those programs fees were not charged for non-premies. Now he does videos, but somehow I think they are priced in a fashion to also turn a handsome profit. Since the videos are "his," he has the copyrights to them and is entitled to personal royalties, no matter how inane, ridiculously simplistic, or repetitive they might be. He also has a captive audience of premies, who aren't even allowed to give satsang, so they have no choice but to purchase and watch the drivel he produces. Regarding residences, OP says nowadays he only has four, but he used to have more. Why does he need them? You could ask him, but I doubt you will ever in your life be able to speak to him directly, and if you write a letter that has any questioning content to it, it will not be answered. I know that from experience. GMJ has never showed the slightest bit of interest in his devotees, except if they had LOTS of money to give him and then he spent LOTS of time with those people and feigned great interest in them and their lives. Why does he ask premies to go to programs? One reason is to make money, both from the progrem itself and from the sale of the publications and the other schlock he sells. As I mentioned above, programs make money. One that was free was Millenium, and that lost a bundle, and we, his devotees, had to fundraise for years to pay it off. [Never mind that GMJ could have sold one of his multiple residences or a Rolls Royce or two and could have settled the debt, but he was the perfect master and entitled to that stuff.] Apparently he learned from Millenium, and the premie programs and festivals made money for him after that, and it is a practice he apparently continues. Funny that now you can receive knowledge from a video, but for some reason you are supposed to fly across country and watch him talk (even though you can buy a video sometime thereafter and hear the same thing) and sing songs to him. But videos cannot reproduce a "group high," and thus programs with a mass of people, are still needed. Programs also allow him to "double dip" by making money off the program and then to make money again by selling the video of the same program. What a racket. He also does festivals, in my opinion, to reinforce his own large ego, to reinforce in his mind that he is loved and adored by thousands, and that he really is something other than a total charlatan. ["If these people say I'm important, I must be important."] Moreover, as mentioned above, it is only at programs that "group think" can take over, and the premies get a "group high" by singing and blissing out in a big group with one focus (any religious revival program does the same thing.) The premies then transfer the "group high" to GMJ (in psychology, a common process known as "transference") and they then are fixed until the next program,which they attend to get the high once more, and once more replenish the coffers of the guru. Nice work if you can get it. The ashram satang at Kissimmee. I actually remember attending two of them. But the one you are referring to was the same one where he not only said he created us, but he also said we didn't have the right to even look at him, that moving out of the ashram was the worst thing you could do; he said it was "moving into a cesspool," and that he was going to take us out of the world entirely by buying land in Florida where we would all live. Fortunately for all of us, that didn't happen, hence we did not end up like Jonestown. I doubt GMJ will ever subject himself to "open dialogue" or "open discussion." I think he does, at least in that area, recognize his weak points and knows he is pretty bad at that, usually comes off looking like an idiot to most people, and doesn't know how to answer questions about why he was once the lord of the universe and let people kiss his feet, when he is trying to pretend like none of that happened so he can attract people to buy videos and pay fees to attend programs to keep the cycle going. Regarding
GMJ responding to us, I doubt GMJ has the slightest idea who any of us (except
maybe OP) who post on this page are, has no interest in finding out who we are
or why we think he is such a money-grubbing fraud, and I do not think he could
care less whether we ever were, or ever will be again, his devotees. He's
settled for a lifestyle better than 99.9% of the rest of the people on this
planet, for a few hours "work" every month or so, and has given up any
pretense to "save" or "enlighten" anyone. Hence, what happens to us is not
real concern to him.
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 18:03:54 (EDT)
Poster: Douche Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: Acccepted! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 18:21:15 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: JW, once again you have stated your points strongly and succinctly. Thanks. Isn't it true that he has no interest in us? Too true I'm sure. But, JW, humour me a bit. Don't you think there's a good chance he checks in here once in a while, maybe while he's waiting for the latest porno flick to download or something? I, who have a genetic susceptibility to believe anything and hope against all odds, can't help but think -- much as Scott believes in a higher power -- that Maharaji knows we're here. Actually, it's kind of amusing
isn't it, the way his lurking offers a cheap, high-tech analogue of
omniscience and omnipresence? As for omnipotence, nah, bad analogy. After all,
here I am, calling Maharaji a FAT LITTLE INDIAN FRAUD ARTIST, and nothing
happens. No turn blue, no up in sky. Nothing. Funny.
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 22:17:07 (EDT)
Poster: JW Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: Maybe the fat little Indian fraud artist does check the internet for comments about him from time to time, but that is different than saying he cares about why anyone is saying whatever it is they are saying about him. I am sure that there are plenty of premies who look at this site in either an official or unofficial capacity and probably people report to the big wigs at Elan Vital about what is going on. Since most people around the perfect master tend to be sychophants who don't want to express a discouraging word to their master, any content like "Guru Maharaj Ji is a fat fraud" probably does not get to him, unless he reads it directly. [If so, Mr. Divine M, you are a fat fraud, if you are reading this.] I have heard lots of anecdotal comments that quite a large number of people who consider themselves premies do read this site. Not too surprising, I mean that premie site is boring garble. If they are, they are not likely to admit it to other premies, only to ex-premies. Group acceptance and peer pressure are HUGE forces in the Maharaj Ji cult and you don't want to admit your heretical activities or thoughts to anyone in the cult. You can bet that premies will read Anderson's New Yorker article also, but may or may not ever talk to any other premies about it, unless it is flattering of GMJ. The hypocrisy among premies is truly amazing,
especially when you consider how superior premies feel because they get to be
a part of something that very few people even know about. What's weird is
that, at least for me, all the while I felt like that I also secretly longed
to be free from the programming and to be free to think again, but, of course,
I always obeyed the "don't think" commandment in the end and repressed all of
that.
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 22:55:20 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: JW, When you say: 'What's weird is that, at least for me, all the while I felt like that I also secretly longed to be free from the programming and to be free to think again, but, of course, I always obeyed the 'don't think' commandment in the end and repressed all of that.' I have to say 'yes.'
Life's so full of entanglements that don't pay off immediately if ever. How
seductive to think that disengagement is a virtue.
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 23:14:40 (EDT)
Poster: Brian Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: I've been meaning to respond to one of your posts for a while now, ever since I dawned on me that I hadn't yet. I find myself thinking about what you say after reading it, and not having anything to add. You write thought-provokingly (at least to those willing to risk indulging in thought). I agree with you about premies probably reading this site regularly. At least the content changes in every post, and is coming from people who have been in their tear-stained shoes. MJ videos have to begin to sound the same after the first one. I can't imagine the brain-deadening that aspirants must go through for 5 months before being allowed to view the main feature. As for MJ reading any posts here, he would only be doing that to
track the effect this site may be having on the gullible aspirant pool. After
all, there's so many hucksters out there and only so many willing to be
conned. And, actually, I can't see him spending any of his own time on it. He
always placed so much more value on his own selfish wants than on those of
anyone else. It's not like he ever had the bright idea to acquire a jet to fly
poor premies to events. Naw... he's not reading this... he's in his counting
room... counting all his devotees' money.
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 23:37:41 (EDT)
Poster: JW Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: I don't think it was disengagement so much as it was engagement with a part of myself that I had been repressing in order to surrender to Guru Maharaj Ji. Years after being out of the cult, I could recall that there were many times while in the cult that I saw through the garbage and wanted to get out. It was only my faith in what GMJ said that kept me there. He made me afraid of the consequences of following my own judgements and feelings and so I avoided, didn't listen to, and repressed them. I can remember seeing planes fly over Miami and wanting to be on one of them just to get away. I think it wasn't so much physically away, but more wanting to be back in touch with myself again, which at that point was somewhat of a distant memory. "Entanglements" may
be good or bad, or neither, I've just learned that I have to "be there" to
evaluate what's happening in such entanglements and not try to eliminate my
evaluative processes, which happened in the Maharaj Ji cult, and which was a
destructive thing. Unfortunately for premies, I think you have to be out of
the cult before you know that that process has been repressed.
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Date: Tues, May 27, 1997 at 00:36:41 (EDT)
Poster: JW Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: Thanks, Brian. I always enjoy reading your posts also and they make me think too. I wish I could use humor as effectively as you do; it's such a powerful thing and I guess there is a tradition to use it to bring down those, like GMJ, who hold themselves up to be above what is expected of normal human beings. Yes, I imagine he would be concerned about potential aspirants. I think right now, in the West, he would be satisfied with just replacing the premies who fall away, while he hopes to bring in larger numbers in other countries, where he isn't as known. He can't risk publicity because of the delicate scheme he is trying to pull off to change his image. He needs to keep the premies to keep his meal ticket, but at the same time he has to get them to shut up about all the perfect master stuff. That requires keeping everything really low key. It is amazing what happens when you start to see GMJ as a just a human being. I remember the first time I saw that. Once Maharaj Ji used the Miami satsang hall for an ashram meeting while he doing hoola puja festival, or something equally stupid, at the Miami Beach Convention Center. Like most satsang halls at the time, we had one of those ridiculous ergon chairs sitting up on the stage as if he was going to arrive at any minute. Anyway, we strongly suspected that the chair was broken. But of course, no one could sit in it to test it out because it was the lord's chair and only HE could sit in it. Anyway, I asked that guy [was his name Franco?] who was GMJ's right-hand servant who set up everything in meticulous detail so that MJ didn't have to think, to check out the chair before the lord sat in it. Well, he didn't. They put the broken chair on the stage and I was sweating bullets. I stared at the chair and held my breath. GMJ came out and sat in it. The second he sat his big ass down, the chair pitched forward and he just about fell on his face. The chair was up on a dias, so the fall would have been significant. He did keep himself from falling on the floor, but I saw how startled and scared he was and how disoriented he was. I don't know exactly why, but I felt like I sort of saw through him in that instant and there was a whole part of me that thought it was really funny. This was the opposite reaction I expected to have. For some reason, I saw him, for the first time, as just a person, who was really disoriented and unable to cope if absolutely everything wasn't completely controlled and predictable. He just didn't know how to cope. At least 10 of his entourage bolted to the stage and took care of everything, but in that instant, I saw him blow his cool when the chair broke and I could tell he was likely a fake. Of course, I put that away fast, back in the recesses of my brain somewhere, and MJ proceeded to give one of the HEAVIEST fire and brimestone satsangs I had ever heard. As community
coordinator, people came up to me afterward and tried to console me because
they thought I would be devestated that I had failed the lord of the universe.
But I really felt great and kind of excited because of what I had seen, but of
course, I didn't let on about that. But it was one more brick out of the wall.
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Date: Tues, May 27, 1997 at 02:20:08 (EDT)
Poster: Kuokoa Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: Thanks allot for your reply, I don't have the time to park myself on the internet for too long but the reponses to my questions have obiviously opened up a lively discussion on the subject. I do believe that he is checking in on what is being said on this forum. He's mentioned many times how technology is great. He's probably screening whats going on like caller i.d. for the telephone. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 27, 1997 at 02:55:31 (EDT)
Poster: Kuokoa Email: To: M Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: You will find the true answers to all your questions by looking inside yourself. M Are you a Mahatma or something? Whats with the cloak of secrecy? Someone
after this post said your name is David. So whats up here?
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Date: Tues, May 27, 1997 at 05:36:14 (EDT)
Poster: Brian Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Questions about GMJ Message: Thanks for my morning laugh. The Holy Chair story is great! I've already added it to my mental arsenal. Especially love the part about nobody wanting to desecrate it with their own asses. Your stories always remind me just how nuts premies are, and I find myself shaking my head remembering. I lived briefly
at the Denver Race Street ashram before the Montrose festival. Mahatma
Fakiranand, The Blissful Beggar, was in town doing pre-festival programs, and
one morning he came downstairs in a bad mood and just went off on everyone
about the dust on the Holy Chair and Holy Picture that only he could see. He
started hollering and swatting at the invisible dust with some cloth that he
had. People were a blur, running around trying to 'fix' the flowers and crap
to his vague specifications. I was stunned to see how crazy he was and kept my
distance from him afterwards. Not as stunned as Pat Haley was months later, of
course.
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Date: Sun, May 25, 1997 at 10:15:05 (EDT)
Poster: Gunther's Mom Email: To: Deena Subject: Hi Deena Message: A quick post to say I lost your Email so write me if you still have mine! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 24, 1997 at 00:16:18 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Everyone Subject: We could be with him tonight! Message: It's 9:15 p.m. here and also in L.A. I guess Maharaji's already started giving satsang. What are we doing? We're such fools. We could be with him tonight. We could have flown down to L.A. and met our friends from other communities. Had dinner with a few before the program. Shared some tenderness. Instead, look at us. Bitter, resentful. Logical. What, oh Lord, have we done? I can see him now. I wonder what colour suit he's wearing. I used to love seeing him in light suits. On the other hand, no one looks cooler than Maharaji in black. I just imagine him sitting there -- 'So, dear premies....' And that's
really all it takes, isn't it? The words leave off where the heart begins.
It's not about meditation, it's not about some spiritual trip. It's about
MONEY!!!!!!
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Date: Sat, May 24, 1997 at 13:34:29 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: There is a bill mili thread but it should say bill cooper or cooper or coop . or I should change my name cause i didnt say that stuff about you. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 24, 1997 at 22:36:22 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper Email: To: Bill Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: There is a bill mili thread but it should say bill cooper or cooper or coop . or I should change my name cause i didnt say that stuff about you. Hey Bill hows it hanging? If I stick to Bill Cooper and you to
Bill should be no problem
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Date: Sun, May 25, 1997 at 17:21:20 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Email: To: Bill Cooper Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: Hi there . what do you think about all this? Its quite a subject. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 08:58:30 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper Email: To: Bill Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: Secret confessions I still have pictures of Maharaji on my bedroom wall where no one else can see them I still occasionally watch M's videos I have stopped reading Millis threads altogether except when I come across one when I press next. I am profoundly depressed at the thought of life having no purpose whatsoever and I would include with that that the whole purpose of life is for our genes to pass to the next generation a la Moral Animal. I have grown tired of the bickering that goes on here in the name of discussion Life seems bleak and I have not the slightest excuse for an answer
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 09:33:34 (EDT)
Poster: Bobby Email: To: Bill Cooper Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: I am profoundly depressed at the thought of life having no purpose whatsoever and I would include with that that the whole purpose of life is for our genes to pass to the next generation a la Moral Animal. I think the whole "moral animal" perspective is a limited model. For my part I am convinced of the reality of Spirit. Those who see the universe as reducable to atomic interaction in my view cut out whole ranges of Universe. I have grown tired of the bickering that goes on here in the name of discussion Thanks for saying that, I thought it was just me. Life seems
bleak and I have not the slightest excuse for an answer. The Buddhist
answer is that phenomena are essentially empty. Some appearances are
irreducible. Pull apart a flower to find the life force and you are left with
nothing. Sometimes when I've gotten stuck in painful emotions I've turned
to the breath. Just breathe one breath at a time. I ride my mind on that.
Everything is just phenomena that arises and passes. No inherent value.
Hope you feel better.
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 09:39:43 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper Email: To: Bobby Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: Thanks Bobby You know more than anything else I would just like the
opportunity to talk to Maharaji and sort things out. The fact that M keeps us
underlings at a distance means that its not possible to resolve this like you
would an ordinary relationship. See my thread *if you are listening Maharaji.
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 09:41:33 (EDT)
Poster: Brian Email: To: Bill Cooper Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: Bill, Why was believing MJ was Lord, and had come to this world just for 'You', a reliever of life's apparent bleakness? Because that's what you're battling here - the loss of what you felt when you believed it. Just by changing your thoughts you have removed all reason to feel alive. I remember how shocked I felt when I returned home to tell everyone I knew that the Lord was here and was battling acne! They were extremely skeptical. These were the people who had filled my young mind with expectations that there was a Lord, he was going to come to the world and mingle with the little people (cause he loved them so much), and he would carry us all away to Never-Never Land where we would all live happily Forever After. Yet they greeted the Great News with extremely reserved reactions. Adults love to tell children about the magic of Santa Claus. They drag them to a mall and sit them on the lap of a complete stranger (who does or doesn't cop a feel at the time), and take pictures of the innocence that will soon be evaporating. When adults announce that they think they hear hooves on the roof, they get to exchange winks and knowing smiles among themselves at the way their childrens' faces light up with wonder as they run to the window. When children announce that THEY think they hear hooves on the roof, the adults don't run to the windows in real wonder. They may go through the motions, painting false awe on their faces, but they also get to exchange the knowing winks and smiles. So there I was, a supposedly ex-child, announcing that there were hooves on the roof. People sat there and stared at me. I no longer believe in Santa Claus, or MJ, or dead Jesus. It was very depressing to abandon each belief in turn, since I had to surrender innocence at each point. Each left the world looking a bit bleak, granted. But the bleakness stemmed from having been pumped full of shit as a child and now having to look at empty places inside where I was used to seeing illusion existing before. Take down the pictures. Toss away the crap. You're still here, and you can live your life free from the influence of people who would control your beliefs for the purpose of being able to exchange knowing winks among themselves. You've worn the same 'Kick Me' sign on your back that the rest of us here have worn - many, as you see, still wearing it. Drop your need to be kicked. You deserve better from yourself, and for yourself. You can find support here during the process. I know I have. Someday Mili will want a site like this to be available for support when he finds himself tired of pretense that MJ even knows, or cares, that he exists. Feel alive because you are alive. You don't need any other reason. Or anyone else's cooperation. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 10:00:59 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: Wow you type fast !! Okay I see your poiny of view and you seem to have
resolved it for yourself. For me it leaves a big hole that hurts and feel all
mixed up about it. part hurt /bleak, part angry. Suppose its cos I've not
worked it out for myself yet. I find it really easy to believe in atheism but
it fills me with fear and dread.
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 12:44:16 (EDT)
Poster: Brian Email: To: Bill Cooper Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: For me it leaves a big hole that hurts and feel all mixed up about it. part hurt/bleak, part angry. Suppose its cos I've not worked it out for myself yet. You've got your life to do that. You've made the same blunders that the rest of us have (some bigger, some smaller), and although it's rocky, you can get passed it. I find it really easy to believe in atheism but it fills me with fear and dread. I'm not an atheist. I'm not an anything.
I'm just me. But I was sold on the existence of a 'loving' god who's got me
walking the plank in this world that hangs over some eternal suffering. I know
that if I accept the existence of THAT god, I'm gonna 'love' him back outa
fear of the circling sharks. Or if I reject him, via too many traps to count,
I get lovingly fed to them. I can't buy it. I'm open to being mistaken, but
not open to the information coming via some 'teacher' - MJ, some minister,
etc, slash con man, and I'm not going to do any further hunting for that
'messiah'. I figure anyone who put me here knows where I am if they've got
something to say to me face-to-face. Anything else is just asking for the MJ's
in this world to take my money, waste my devotion, and sign me up for a comet
ride.
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 13:09:04 (EDT)
Poster: Scott Email: To: Bill Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: Dear Bill, - For me, my 'Maharaji time' in my life was a sort of 'warm-up time'. I feel that I was practicing focusing on beauty, love, hope, all of those things, in someone who was at a safe distance. Far enough for me not to have to be too accurate. Close enough for me to actually sense that such things might truly exist. - Now that I no longer believe that M. is the source of these things, it's time for me to actually start becoming aware of the presence of these things in the more 'real' people around me in my day to day life. Not merely in someone or something that is off at a safe distance. - Since leaving, for me none of those things that gave me true comfort while I was with M. have diminished in my life in the least. Rather, I now feel that they have intensified, (crazy as this may seem to those 'Moral Animals' out there.) - Scott
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 13:29:01 (EDT)
Poster: Burke Email: To: Scott Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: Nice job of saying that scott --Its time to start becoming aware of those things in the people around me.-- Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 16:19:23 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: I am an athesit. It's not so bad. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 16:22:15 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: I am an athesit. It's not so bad. I'm also slydextic, which si dillfucit. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 16:55:28 (EDT)
Poster: Brian Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: I am an athesit. It's not so bad. I wanted to be an atheist, of course, but I don't have a VCR and couldn't
do the 5 months of introductory video.
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Date: Mon, May 26, 1997 at 17:22:27 (EDT)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: I am an athesit. It's not so bad. I wanted to be an atheist, of course, but I don't have a VCR and couldn't do the 5 months of introductory video. I don't know that they'd take you. Have you ever thrown yourself at the feet of another human being and called him Lord, Saviour or Perfect Master? Brian, I had to fill out all sorts of shit to qualify. You think being a Christian's complicated. Forms, forms, forms. Worse, I had to renounce any residual
belief that someone's going to save me. I did all that, got accepted, but, and
this is the part that pisses me off -- what a let down. NOTHING HAPPENED!
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Date: Tues, May 27, 1997 at 01:28:04 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Burke Email: To: Bobby Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: Hello R+B I guess its the Buddist part of you that compells me to write each time. How about this alternate view, phenomena is a gift that took 16-18 billion years to make for your viewing pleasure. It has such inherent value that it cant be put into words. Anyone who meditates on mantras and buddist thoughts are gradually driven to view a garden as an empty obstacle. The breath isnt something you turn to when you are distressed but is the seat you ride in as you view your unfolding life. The comfort of life or god is not for the future or when we are finally all fixed but for right now as you are. Nothing needs to change in our lives to make things whole. We are complete but if we are not feeling the life then we are complete but incomplete. A slight paradox but just because its there all the time doesnt mean we are getting its full benefit. thats why everyone thinks its no big deal. To get its benefit we have to take our attention and feel it as we live our day. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 27, 1997 at 05:44:50 (EDT)
Poster: Brian Email: To: Bill Burke Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: Any chance you folks could confine this speculation on the nature of reality to the Touchy/Feely Forum? I've specifically been avoiding that forum so that I don't have to wade through these vague mental wanderings. If you have to post it here, be prepared for the 'negative' feedback that it's immune to there. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 27, 1997 at 08:45:14 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Burke Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: We could be with him tonight! Message: Go for it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 22, 1997 at 22:03:01 (EDT)
Poster: jim Email: To: Everyone Subject: premie page heats up! Message: Yes, the new age is upon us. Here's an interesting post from the new crop over on Harlan's page: '5-20-97 Comments: hey, world...!!!!! just been reading the interview with Bob Mishler, late president of Divine Light Mission at www.miraclevision.com/ maharaji/mishler.htm thanks to Harlan (webmaster) Cooley and the Croatian premie..i lived with Bob in Denver in 1972 and 73....very interesting stuff. Bob seemed to be a person with alot of integrity. So i really doubt that he would just make all this up.... so that leaves us with a very interesting possibility...that it's all true..... what happened i mean... i find it very interesting that after all these years, this information has only just made its way to me. so now i must do something with it...put it somewhere...use it somehow.. actually, i already have decided that Bob has very likely misinterpreted the data..which is one thing that i found him capable of doing, probably because of the particular bias that he was programmed with growing up. the biggest thing that struck me about Bob was that he tended to be narrow minded about sex. now that was true of all the people involved with the ashram system with the possible exception of Maharaji himself. (in fact i never heard him say the word "sex" to this day.) All the Mahatmas, ashram premies etc. were celebate. i had toyed with the idea and really tried it out (i lived in the ashram on and off for about three years), but it just never panned out. it didn't get me any happier. finally, after i was kicked out of the ashram in Philadelphia in 1973, i decided to embrace my sexuality. i was gay. i was 21. my hormones were moaning (they still are). i'm much happier now. now i see the celebacy thing as an ancient thoughtform(idea) that has totally ceased to have any use, (if it ever had any i don't know). i think the world will be truly in the new age when the idea of celebacy is renunciated.......... ..............all things in moderation........... where were we...... so anyway, Bob's tales of Maharaji drinking etc. really dosn't alarm me at all. my favorite drink lately is a vodka martini with two olives please........i hope Bob wasn't murdered by anyone but God....you know God is a murderer. He (It) creates us and it destroys us..................... well now i don't want to get tooo esoteric here, but just thought i'd put my 2 cents in.love to everybody. does anyone know what happened to the Cocteau Twins web page (cocteautwins.com)? oh yea, i'm really enjoying reading Alice Bailey (again). i know Maharaji said sort of jokingly "don't get involved with spirituality". but i think there's a good argument for saying Bailey's work is SCIENTIFIC. 1st book entitled INITIATION HUMAN AND SOLAR... 12 or so more volumes. anybody know Marilyn Ping (maiden name) who married a premie from Chicago? John Racky? Michael from Moses Lake, Wahington?thanks, jim Location: san francisco,.california Name: Name jim boeger E-mail:
E-mailsfjim@hotmail.com'
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Date: Fri, May 23, 1997 at 03:55:06 (EDT)
Poster: Douche Email: To: jim Subject: Re: premie page heats up! Message: Are we sure this guy isn't bill in drag? He sure writes like him. And what about that line: i know Maharaji said sort of jokingly 'don't get involved with spirituality' ? Did the Lord of the Universe really say that? And if he did, are we mere mortals really capable of understanding whether he said it jokingly or not? I know I keep banging on about the vanishing realis(z)ation trick, but I really can't see the point in kissing BigM's toes if all you get is a load of incomprehensible platitudes. Or am I missing something fundemental here? Douche
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Date: Fri, May 23, 1997 at 05:54:13 (EDT)
Poster: Brian Email: To: jim Subject: Re: premie page heats up! Message: That's a dandy, alright, but for depth and insight into the true state of clarity and bliss I prefer this one: 5-17-97 Happy to find a Premie site...I remember going to Satsang as an infant and feeling JOY and LOVE and excitement before the ability to form words :) Thank you to Guru Maharaj Ji for showing me what a happy person is. My favorite story my mother told was that your feet would be bloody at the end of the night after being kissed so much...COOL! :) The smallest touch can bring the greatest results. If
only we could all be such happy individuals...
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Date: Fri, May 23, 1997 at 11:20:23 (EDT)
Poster: Mili Email: To: jim Subject: Re: premie page heats up! Message: How come you guys are always taking peeks at the premie page? I thought you weren't interested in that stuff anymore. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |