Ex-Premie.Org

Forum I Archive # 6

From: May 28, 1997

To: Jun 4, 1997

Page: 5 Of: 5


Jim -:- What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 08:44:28 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 10:20:01 (EDT)
___ex-Borg -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 10:35:33 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 10:48:15 (EDT)
___jim -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 10:53:00 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 10:55:35 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 10:58:25 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 10:59:48 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:05:20 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:07:43 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:14:50 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:17:46 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:24:53 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:37:54 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:38:00 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:40:13 (EDT)
___Rockin' Bob -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:46:45 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:48:58 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:52:34 (EDT)
___Rockin' Bob -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:53:31 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:01:05 (EDT)
___Rockin' Bob -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:13:41 (EDT)
___Rockin' Bob -- Crazy but free -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:15:14 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:31:38 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:36:13 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:44:33 (EDT)
___Rockin' Bob -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:54:50 (EDT)
___Rockin' Bob -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:58:53 (EDT)
___Bill CVooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:01:06 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:03:45 (EDT)
___Rockin' Bob aka Bobby aka nagabob -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:10:29 (EDT)
___Rockin' Bob -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:14:22 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:24:59 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:28:43 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:31:01 (EDT)
___nagabob -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:35:15 (EDT)
___nagabob -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:36:54 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:40:45 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:44:22 (EDT)
___nagabob -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:46:13 (EDT)
___nagabob - one of my favorite monikers -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:47:36 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:48:40 (EDT)
___Deena -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:49:37 (EDT)
___nagabob -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:56:41 (EDT)
___nagabob -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:58:05 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 14:07:38 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 14:08:59 (EDT)
___burke -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 14:15:16 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: What if? -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 14:33:30 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: What if? -:- Wed, Jun 4, 1997 at 23:07:56 (EDT)

burke -:- ask Jesus O'Heller -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 00:35:17 (EDT)
___burke -:- Re: ask Jesus O'Heller -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 00:38:25 (EDT)
___burke -:- Re: ask Jesus O'Heller -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 00:45:11 (EDT)
___burke -:- Re: ask Jesus O'Heller -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 00:53:33 (EDT)
___burke -:- Re: ask Jesus O'Heller -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 01:10:31 (EDT)
___nagabob -:- Re: ask Jesus O'Heller -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:42:47 (EDT)
___burke -:- Re: ask Jesus O'Heller -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 14:10:22 (EDT)
___nagabob -:- Re: ask Jesus O'Heller -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 14:16:39 (EDT)
___burke -:- Re: ask Jesus O'Heller -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 20:50:10 (EDT)

burke -:- Ananda Ji -:- Wed, May 28, 1997 at 23:50:56 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: Ananda Ji -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:31:39 (EDT)
___burke -:- Re: Ananda Ji -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 14:03:30 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: Ananda Ji -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 19:36:09 (EDT)
___bill -:- Re: Ananda Ji -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 23:41:31 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Ananda Ji -:- Sat, May 31, 1997 at 22:21:05 (EDT)
___burke -:- Re: Ananda Ji -:- Sun, Jun 1, 1997 at 02:39:29 (EDT)
___burke -:- Re: Ananda Ji -:- Sun, Jun 1, 1997 at 02:53:35 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Ananda Ji -:- Sun, Jun 1, 1997 at 07:25:22 (EDT)
___burke -:- Re: Ananda Ji -:- Sun, Jun 1, 1997 at 10:50:54 (EDT)

Deena -:- Calling all ex-Borg -:- Wed, May 28, 1997 at 17:12:49 (EDT)
___Borg 3 (Scott) -:- Re: Calling all ex-Borg -:- Wed, May 28, 1997 at 18:14:08 (EDT)
___Borg 3 -:- Re: Calling all ex-Borg -:- Wed, May 28, 1997 at 19:01:18 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: Calling all ex-Borg -:- Wed, May 28, 1997 at 19:12:56 (EDT)
___Borg 3 -:- Re: Calling all ex-Borg -:- Wed, May 28, 1997 at 19:52:23 (EDT)
___ex-Borg -:- Re: Calling all ex-Borg -:- Wed, May 28, 1997 at 23:04:29 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Calling all ex-Borg -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 03:42:09 (EDT)
___Scott -:- Re: Calling all ex-Borg -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 07:30:01 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: Calling all ex-Borg -:- Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:30:32 (EDT)
___Paul -:- Re: Calling all ex-Borg -:- Mon, Jun 2, 1997 at 11:17:34 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Calling all ex-Borg -:- Mon, Jun 2, 1997 at 19:44:48 (EDT)
___burke -:- Re: Calling all ex-Borg -:- Mon, Jun 2, 1997 at 20:43:23 (EDT)
___Paul -:- Re: Calling all ex-Borg -:- Wed, Jun 4, 1997 at 07:46:42 (EDT)
___Paul -:- Re: Calling all ex-Borg -:- Wed, Jun 4, 1997 at 07:58:27 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Calling all ex-Borg -:- Wed, Jun 4, 1997 at 10:22:37 (EDT)

Scott -:- New Archive #10 -:- Wed, May 28, 1997 at 14:01:49 (EDT)
___Scott -:- Re: New Archive #10 -:- Wed, May 28, 1997 at 15:57:34 (EDT)


Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 08:44:28 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: What if?
Message:
What if M had kept his trip together a bit better and the dream hadn't died so quickly? What if we still believed in M and did so til the end? What if the ashrams hadn't fallen apart and we got old there? What if you died thinking that M was God? Dedicated your whole life, gave up the world -- so, so literally -- for him? Would it matter?

I guess what I'm asking is if it mattered that it was all fake, so long as you were 'happy'? Interesting question, don't you think?

Are there such things as 'meaningful' lives in North Korea?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 10:20:01 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Hi Jim
Here goes a totally irrelevant response.
What if evolutionary psychology is true. What if in fifty years the society that exists is so inaccesible to us as our present society is to victorian man. Catch Darwin getting the savvy out of simpsons or Wierd science. Where is the message of scruplesd ,honour and defference. Really enjoyed Moral animal have you ever read Skinners Walden 2 ?A society in which cynicism has reached hieghts that are unimaginable to us a place in which no one can take anything serious because absurdness rules . My favourite book is breakfast of champions by Kurt Vonnegut. It says it all in a way that a ten year old can understand. what other books would you recommend.
Wow Dylans in hospital.
Where did all the premies go ??
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 10:35:33 (EDT)
Poster: ex-Borg
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Yes, I believe you can die happy even though deluded. Ignorance is bliss. I believe my husband will die with the belief that M is the incarnation ot the likes of Jesus, Buddha, Krishna etc. It is of great comfort and what difference does it make in the end....I've asked the same question. I mean, most of the world believe they have a personal relationship with a higher power and they die content with that belief...I on the other hand don't buy into that. So what is the dif?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 10:48:15 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: ex-Borg
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
The difference is the number of hours you spend looking at the cieling while your partner spends blisfully asleep.
Belief is great, it absolves you of all right to think.
If you could believe in any religion what would it be. Me first ... I would be a fundamentalist Mormon, extra sex without the guilt trip.

Your turn
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 10:53:00 (EDT)
Poster: jim
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Yeah, good luck Bob. Time to buy a greatest hits cd? Blonde on blonde? And good luck Kurt.

Not sure I follow your nightmare but I'm sure I've had it too.

Books? I'm really enjoying Dawkins' new 'Climbing Mount Improbable'.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 10:55:35 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: ex-Borg
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
While we're at it, why buy a real Rolex? The knockoffs keep time fine and you never hear of them melting or anything. Truth? Who needs it?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 10:58:25 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
The difference is the number of hours you spend looking at the cieling while your partner spends blisfully asleep.
Belief is great, it absolves you of all right to think.
If you could believe in any religion what would it be. Me first ... I would be a fundamentalist Mormon, extra sex without the guilt trip.

Your turn
Great question. Let me see, Satanist? -- similar reasons.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 10:59:48 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Wow man you are so spot on its scary but I wish you would learn to type. Which reminds me

There was a time
when every valley hill and stream
and every living thing to me did seem
apparelled in celestial light
wether has it fled that visionary dream ?
Where is it now the glory
and the gleam ?


Where indeed?
Every awakening is a loss.


Hey Jim are you a blue eyed Nordic blonde who enjoys leather wear and S&M?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:05:20 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: ex-Borg
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Yes, I believe you can die happy even though deluded. Ignorance is bliss. I believe my husband will die with the belief that M is the incarnation ot the likes of Jesus, Buddha, Krishna etc. It is of great comfort and what difference does it make in the end....I've asked the same question. I mean, most of the world believe they have a personal relationship with a higher power and they die content with that belief...I on the other hand don't buy into that. So what is the dif?
Deena,

I hate stardrek, just thought I'd mention that. I went to law school with Kirk's daughter, by the way. But that's not the reason. I just never really liked it and, when no one stopped me, allowed that disrespect to fester. You know?

Here's a kicker -- ultimate hell. What if M strings someone like your H along, even sets up another ashram or something, only to admit that it was all a joke as H lays dying in his old age. Just give H enough time to think about being had all those years. Wouldn't THAT be a peach? Kind of like being poisoned and having your murderer laugh about it in your face as soon as you've drunk the shit but before it kicks in. Lovely.

(Can you tell I couldn't sleep last night?)
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:07:43 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Okay the leather wear is out . I realise that the sole purpose of this site is to discuss the veracity of Guru Maharaji the once leader oF Divine light mission et al. It was totally inappropriate to suggest that the great Jim Heller would indulge in carnal acts of leather wear . I dont know what came over me.

Okay back to 1973


Shit How about bondage ???
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:14:50 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Wow man you are so spot on its scary but I wish you would learn to type. Which reminds me

There was a time
when every valley hill and stream
and every living thing to me did seem
apparelled in celestial light
wether has it fled that visionary dream ?
Where is it now the glory
and the gleam ?


Where indeed?
Every awakening is a loss.


Hey Jim are you a blue eyed Nordic blonde who enjoys leather wear and S&M?
Yes, well we're losing our focus here class. Today's topic is a paper presented by David 'Douche' Stirling on the repressive consequences of excessive rummage collection (or 'jumbling' as the English called it) in the early days of Divine Light Mission.

After Mr. Stirling's lecture -- and I've actually read the paper in advance this time and can promise you it will generate some stimulating discussion -- we'll have a break. Not too long, I'm afraid, for we then return for 'Sexual Abuse in DLM : how much did he know and what did he do about it?' by Susan. Again, this is a significant piece of research and -- well, I should reserve my own comment but I'll welcome yours soon enough.

Later, lunch. Afterwards a ribald parody of Arti by you-know-who and, well that takes us into the afternoon.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:17:46 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Scotts away, Scottys away
Time to play
Oh Jim you are the alpha male
Take me take me
Incidentally Where is Odl and Milli and all the othewr thatI I never read ?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:24:53 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Scotts away, Scottys away
Time to play
Oh Jim you are the alpha male
Take me take me
Incidentally Where is Odl and Milli and all the othewr thatI I never read ?

I don't know about that but where is Odl anyway? Odl? You there? We're waiting for you to put it all together for us. What's the latest? What new things were on sale this time. Maharaji hologram key chains? Joke books? Fake Krishna crowns (for the kids)? Old, expensive, vintage charnam rit (water M had put his feet into)? The truth?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:37:54 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Sorry this is all so exciting to me being able to communicate directly with some one on the net
Come on Jim you big buch beast . I bet your gagging for it.Fuck the commemorative spoons or the few points that you can gain over a few lame brained premies.

What do you want Ji9m?

Ho hum evolutionary Psychology goes so far . Lets slap our knobs on the table mines 17 cm whats yours ? this seems as fair a way at arriving at the veracity of an argument as Millis method of obfuscation. Actually I lied mines 20 but I didn't want to sound like a show off.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:38:00 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Sorry this is all so exciting to me being able to communicate directly with some one on the net
Come on Jim you big buch beast . I bet your gagging for it.Fuck the commemorative spoons or the few points that you can gain over a few lame brained premies.

What do you want Ji9m?

Ho hum evolutionary Psychology goes so far . Lets slap our knobs on the table mines 17 cm whats yours ? this seems as fair a way at arriving at the veracity of an argument as Millis method of obfuscation. Actually I lied mines 20 but I didn't want to sound like a show off.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:40:13 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Wow deja vu

Must be a flash back.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:46:45 (EDT)
Poster: Rockin' Bob
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Hahahahahahahahahaha

Seems like a fair argument to me.
Wattya say Jimbo?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:48:58 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
This thread supports the contention that the world is getting weird and the wolf is running free. Yes, Dylan's in the hospital, but Mobutu is still wearing that "brand new leopard skin pillbox hat" that Dylan sang about, even if he is wearing it in France.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:52:34 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Come on Jim you must be out there
somewhere in cyberspace
speak to me
Oh captain Oh captain
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:53:31 (EDT)
Poster: Rockin' Bob
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Why is Dylan in the hospital?
Ram Dass had a stroke. Leary died last year. Ginsberg died last month.

I agree! Things are weirder and weirder. Mutations to godnose where.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:01:05 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
I know
itsall too much
I'm building a biplane here in hot and sweaty Singapore. (it keeps me sane) Hi honny its jonny I'm home. Anyway while I work on the 6060n tubing and stits fabric I listen to the BBC world news.. I have to say .IN CAPITAL LETTERS ITS FUCKING DEPRESSING.
To quote Sean o Casey ( long dead) The world is in Chaos
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:13:41 (EDT)
< Poster: Rockin' Bob
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Have you been reading S. Clay Wilson cartoons?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:15:14 (EDT)
Poster: Rockin' Bob -- Crazy but free
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
and ain't that shit outlawed in Singapore?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:31:38 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Rockin' Bob -- Crazy but free
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Come on rocking Bob, give me some slack

Dont you think its pretty shit to remind someone of the size of thier cage?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:36:13 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
What if M had kept his trip together a bit better and the dream hadn't died so quickly? What if we still believed in M and did so til the end? What if the ashrams hadn't fallen apart and we got old there? What if you died thinking that M was God? Dedicated your whole life, gave up the world -- so, so literally -- for him? Would it matter?

I guess what I'm asking is if it mattered that it was all fake, so long as you were 'happy'? Interesting question, don't you think?

Are there such things as 'meaningful' lives in North Korea?
I sometimes hate myself when I'm being mundane and rational, but I just want to point out that "happy" is a subjective term, and even more importantly, it's a relative term. So, the question is: "happy in comparison to what?" Yes, you can be "happy" starving in North Korea or living in a penitentiary, but you would have to admit that it would be somewhat harder to be happy in those situations than, say, living the outlandishly lavish lifestyle that Guru Maharaj Ji does.


Human beings have an incredible ability to adapt to adverse situations and think of themselves as "happy." And they especially tend to think of themselves as happy when there is some cause or central focus to their lives, because that tends to take the focus off their own personal feelings and concerns.


Surveys show that during times of war people say they are more fulfilled and satisfied than in peace time. During the height of the troubles in Northern Ireland, for example, people who lived there had some of the highest levels of perceived "happiness" in the world.


That's why when a premie says he or she is "happy" you have to ask what that means. It doesn't meant that if they weren't a premie that would be unhappy, less happy, or happier. Maybe they think they are "happier" than before they got into the cult, but that just reinforces the notion that people who think they are "unhappy" tend to be more susceptible to getting into a cult in the first place.


I think what ex-premies find out is that, in comparison to their level of happiness after leaving the cult (allowing some time for the adjustment to finding out that the being that was the center of their lives for years was a fraud) that they were not really happy while being a premie, rather they were just programmed to think they were. Not that the time spent as a premie was devoid of "happiness," as almost nothing short of a concentration camp is. And they also discover that they wasted years of their lives living in that delusional state. But you have to get out of the delusion before you realize that it was. That's what is so dangerous about a cult.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:44:33 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
JW you are absolutely spot on
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:54:50 (EDT)
Poster: Rockin' Bob
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
sorry -- we're all in forms of cage though, don't ya think?

How does that William Blake song go? Something like....

"he locked me in his gilded cage,
And mocked my loss of liberty"

Ever hear the Fugs sing that?
Good stuff.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 12:58:53 (EDT)
Poster: Rockin' Bob
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
What's the worst is those happy faces on the McDonald's folks. Didn't they start the "have a nice day trend" with the smiley faces?


Happy while destroying the world.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:01:06 (EDT)
Poster: Bill CVooper
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Come on guys its after 1 am in singapore and if you are not going to play game I'm going to bed. Wheres the alpha male ?


I really would like to have a dialogue with some one out there. But its time for bed.

We spent eight weeks in America last Summer and I have to say that despite all the winging Brit aspect of it we were impressed.
No 1 You have a constitution

Do you think Tonjy Blair is going ti bring one in . I think not.

2 ou have access to information. Do the police consider me to be a political anarchist ?

3) I don't know if this is to do with Oprah & day time TV but people seem much more open to discuss personal problems.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:03:45 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Rockin' Bob
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
What's the worst is those happy faces on the McDonald's folks. Didn't they start the 'have a nice day trend' with the smiley faces?


Happy while destroying the world.
Come on rocking Bob ,


Tell me how you ended up here
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:10:29 (EDT)
Poster: Rockin' Bob aka Bobby aka nagabob
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
wattya' mean how I ended up here?
Where are you talking about?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:14:22 (EDT)
Poster: Rockin' Bob
Email:
To: Bill CVooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
but people seem much more
open to discuss personal problems.

To a degree but not nearly enough for me.
Most people don't know what the real problems are.

Real problems:
- the enormous stress of our society
- the capitalist shell game
- the focus on exhorbitant material gain while denying the cost to the world at large
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:24:59 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Rockin' Bob
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
wattya' mean how I ended up here?
Where are you talking about?
Come on rockin' Bob

No one comes here voluntarily
We are all outcasts one way or another
How come your typing here rather than nypho lesbos site????
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:28:43 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
I really would like to have a dialogue with some one out there. But its time for bed.
BUT AS LEONARDO DA VINCI ONCE SAID
*INTELLECTUAL PASSION DRFIVES OUT SENSUALITY*
So

We spent eight weeks in America last Summer and I have to say that despite all the winging Brit aspect of it we were impressed.
No 1 You have a constitution

Do you think Tonjy Blair is going ti bring one in. I think not.

2 ou have access to information. Do the police consider me to be a political anarchist ?

3) I don't know if this is to do with Oprah & day time TV but people seem much more open to discuss personal problems.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:31:01 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Come on Bill isnt it simply that you have had too much to drinlk
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:35:15 (EDT)
Poster: nagabob
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Simple.
I'm an ex-premie (and a social outcast)
not a nympho lesbo

at least in this incarnation
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:36:54 (EDT)
Poster: nagabob
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
so is that what's loosening the pain....

would that there be more cutting loose around here
with or without the drinks
whatever it takes
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:40:45 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: nagabob
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Pity
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:44:22 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
I simply havent had too much to drinlk by half.


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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:46:13 (EDT)
Poster: nagabob
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
yeah well, I'se born a white man. german looking. WASP.
appearances are deceiving.

why just this morning I was talking about my 60's associations with the outer circles of the Andy Warhol crowd -- speedfreaks and queens

its kali-ma that you want
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:47:36 (EDT)
Poster: nagabob - one of my favorite monikers
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
well then keep on going if it turns you on.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:48:40 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: nagabob
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Please go on.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:49:37 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Yes JW, I agree. And isn't meditation at the centre of that delusional state? I mean, if it offered any form of clairty, wouldn't it become glaringly obvious that one was involved in a cult? Isn't it the ultimate mind control? I mean, when Anon describes it as an anesthetic bubble and how others have described it carrying one through the day etc.etc. Isn't that the perfect set up for the state of mind that allows a person to not use critical thinking when it comes to how life is effecting them. Emotions and thinking are considered less important than the ability to follow one's so-called heart.

My experience is just that. After years of meditation and living in that bliss ninny state of being on and off, where very real emotions and doubts were disregarded, I began to find myself responding like those people of the Heaven's Gate who were all smiley faced and so grateful not to buy into what they considered an illusion. They were pursuing a higher level of being. To me that is no different than the supposed realm of knowledge MJ offers, where there is no more suffering and pain. Bliss eternal. How could anyone resist. Makes me puke. I am very human. Self-hypnosis ritual that enduces some natural drug-like high of floating through one's day with a smiley face does not mean one is able to judge what is occurring in one's life nor learn from one's mistakes. I mean really, how many people who are into any form of so-called consciousness raising have even the semblance of togertherness in there lives when it comes to being a balanced, whole, feeling, thinking and natural person. I ask this not to you personally JW. It's just that I get tired of hearing defence of meditation on this site. For one thing M clearly says it is not meditation. Not for lowering blood pressure or for a better life in general. He's separated this from anything else. He says it's not spiritual, or a religion. He continually reinforces that more is better and praises the likes of those who devote hours to practise. He is full of lies and contradictions. But nonetheless, I still firmly believe there is great danger in the detachment (very much like herion) that the practise of knowledge induces. It must dull the ability to judge whether something is a delusion or not. And yet it's toted as the Truth. What a crock!
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:56:41 (EDT)
Poster: nagabob
Email:
To: nagabob
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
kali ma the dark goddess destroys attachments
she wears a garland of skulls
she's an aspect of the Divine Mother.

Did you know that Durga Ji is another aspect of the Divine Mother and that Hindus used to sacrifice goats to her?

Now we sacrifice boys to wall street.

I'm very respectful of kali ma.
She's the consort of Siva and she stalks graveyards and cremation grounds
She was the main deity of Sri Ramakrishna
He used to talk with her.

I relate to this stuff far more richly then america whiteman pap. unfortunately the whiteman pap appears to be taking over the world.

But again, appearances are deceiving.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:58:05 (EDT)
Poster: nagabob
Email:
To: Deena
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
I don't think you folks understand meditation
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 14:07:38 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: nagabob
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
We are talking reality here

My first wank was the most real experience. Talk about the shock of the new!!!!

To me that innocence of first experience is th thing. It is that moment when you accept without intellectualisation

You know I used to be a hang glider pilot.
Now I'm 42 and I cant carry them to the top of the hill
There is an honesty in flying
Now I fly 172's and the like.


To be at ten thousand feet.
Me and an assortment of nylon and aluminiun

You decide


And upon you decisions the consequences will flow

Into that field ,or that

Blessed moments
To be a God


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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 14:08:59 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: nagabob
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 14:15:16 (EDT)
Poster: burke
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
I always ask the mormons for the address of thier
archeology dept.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 14:33:30 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Deena
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Yeah, I see what you're saying, but I'm not so sure meditation is the center of it all. I think the center is faith, just like any religion, but in this case, it's faith in a living person who isn't required to do anything whatsoever to acknowledge the faith I had in him, except to ask for more.


For me, meditation was just a tool to help me from doubting my complete and total faith in Guru Maharaj Ji. But it did also alter my perception as well, but I can't really say how much.


True, meditation affected my mood, but I wouldn't say it was a "high," except occasionally. It was more a feeling of detachment. Now that detachment provides a level of contentment, but I think that comes from the fact that you are not fully participating in the world, or really even in your own life. You have the feeling of a certain level of protection from the uncertainties and risks of life because you feel detachment from them. But that comes both from meditation and from your self-identification as a premie; as someone who supposedly sees though the "illusion" of the world.


But the cost of being in that state is very high. You shut down a whole part of yourself, and you live a truncated life, all the while believing it is fulfilling.


I actually found a lot about being a premie painful, and I recall even feeling that at the time. So much of it went against my own judgment and values and since you had turned over your free will, you were totally non-self-directed, and I had been raised to be self-directed. So it took a lot of energy to repress that.


Meditation was not able to medicate me completely, and I was one who meditated as much as possible. It was painful to reject my family, it was painful to never feel "good enough" or "surrendered" enough and to be unable to accept myself for who I am, and instead repressing my thoughts and desires. It was painful to see people I cared about hurt in the cult. It was painful to see GMJ as a repulsive ego-filled charlatan, and then to whip myself for seeing that reality. I would never admit feeling any of that pain, mostly out of premie-peer pressure, but it was there nonetheless. I just couldn't do anything about it except to meditate and pray.


And it was very, very painful to love someone who didn't love me back, or even know of or care about my very existence. It's humiliating and it's abusive, and it tends to be very damaging to your own self esteem when your programming prevents you from protecting yourself, and gets you to remain in such an abusive and suffocating relationship. It was a relationship that since I had never even met GMJ, I could not "work it out" because the other party was an absent being whom I considered to be omniscient. There was no "there," there, except in my premie delusions.
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Date: Wed, Jun 4, 1997 at 23:07:56 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Bill Cooper
Subject: Re: What if?
Message:
Come on rocking Bob , give me some slack

Dont you think its pretty shit to remind someone of the size of thier cage?

What a sweet cage it is.
A clean example of the beautiful rewards endowed on society by rationalist tradition.
Very tidy.
A job is sufficient.
Who needs that inner experience stuff?
A clean cut legal system to give Jim Heller sweet dreams.
Nothing strange.
Daily actions have simple explanations.
You are in a Heaven created by clever minds.
Mind is a wonderful thing.
Love is not well defined, practically useless.

Don't get too wild - g.

CD
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 00:35:17 (EDT)
Poster: burke
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: ask Jesus O'Heller
Message:
since the guy that was on the cross was not called jesus but his real name was Yashua, surely no one can have a fit over the new ask Jesus feature at this web site.
And since Heller was an Irish sense of sarcasm, I gave
him the O .
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 00:38:25 (EDT)
Poster: burke
Email:
To: Jesus O'Heller
Subject: Re: ask Jesus O'Heller
Message:
Dear Jesus O'Heller

I love you
But where in the hell are you located?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 00:45:11 (EDT)
Poster: burke
Email:
To: Jesus O'Heller
Subject: Re: ask Jesus O'Heller
Message:
Dear Jesus O'Heller

I love you
But how come I have to eat your body and drink your blood?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 00:53:33 (EDT)
Poster: burke
Email:
To: Jesus O'Heller
Subject: Re: ask Jesus O'Heller
Message:
Dear Jesus O'Heller

I love you

How long will Budda be in hell for makeing so many people
like a dry barren desert?

Will Bobby go to hell just cause because of this Budda virus?

Can Bobby be saved if we pray to you enough?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 01:10:31 (EDT)
Poster: burke
Email:
To: Jesus O'Heller
Subject: Re: ask Jesus O'Heller
Message:
Dear Jesus,

I love you

since that unfortunate cross incident, can you still play the piano?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 13:42:47 (EDT)
Poster: nagabob
Email:
To: burke
Subject: Re: ask Jesus O'Heller
Message:
strange how you characterize the "buddha virus"
--- a dry, barren desert?
not my flavor of Buddhism, rich in dancing deities and diamonds

wattya gonna save me from?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 14:10:22 (EDT)
Poster: burke
Email:
To: nagabob
Subject: Re: ask Jesus O'Heller
Message:
Hi bobby

You are heartfelt and sincere but I thought that some previous new age programming is affecting you as well as the shared programming we all got from mj
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 14:16:39 (EDT)
Poster: nagabob
Email:
To: burke
Subject: Re: ask Jesus O'Heller
Message:
how so?

I'm sure that I'm programmed to a large extent but so are we all.

The crux of my reality is the Being of Light extraterrestrial I encountered during my 1969 near-death experience.

For me all else is dream and program and attempts to awaken.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 20:50:10 (EDT)
Poster: burke
Email:
To: nagabob
Subject: Re: ask Jesus O'Heller
Message:
hi nagabob
thanks for talking
I am doing a bit of house clearing and I am taking
swipes at my christian perspective, my mj perspective,
and all god related views.
If I included you in there it was just 1 for fun and 2 because
I looked at several buddist and zen books last week
and in my rejection of thier ideas I thought I saw
some of those ideas in your comments to ,well I forget
who you were talking to.
Buddha might have had something to say but it must
have gotten lost along the way.
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Date: Wed, May 28, 1997 at 23:50:56 (EDT)
Poster: burke
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Ananda Ji
Message:
You guys are smart and funny

Anon gave a convincing response so I think he
probably at one time wanted to be an instructor
so I have decided to call him Anand Ji

Anand Ji, you seem to be of two minds or rather two
opinions about the breath issue.
because you mentioned the genius idea of teaching it
to 5 year olds. To me kids start to lose thier serious
magic at about 6.
I see that with my own kids.

Today at work ed said he's reading a book on Quantum
Physics. And that Einstien said he was gonna prove there was an underlying reality. Well he died instead.
The quantum people have (according to ed), come to the
conclusion that there is no underlying reality that its just motion and space.

I think they are overlooking life, in the sea of motion some
things are alive and life and conciousness are a reality that
sub atomic analysis doesnt touch.

So if I am going to explore life and be as free of programing as I can, I find myself left with Time
and time is the leading edge of motion. and the most
evident of all the constant motions is my breath.

Today I tried to take a fresh look at it since I had read all
of the posts including one from lane,

And today like all my recent days I had lots of interaction
with lots of people in alot of places and many dif ages.

By feeling my breath consistently I wasnt vulnerable to
the many dif. emotions and stresses that other people
had little defense to. I was comfortable so it was from
comfort and ease that I dealt with the demands of my
day.
I also noticed that in that comfort i had easy accessability
to kindness and understanding and that a joyful
feeling would sometimes bubble up.

Today I thought that if you are in a raft on water it might
look like your just riding the waves but there is an ocean
under there and lots of stuff in that ocean.
same way, I think that the breath is my access point to
the good stuff however-

There is a big difference in taking a walk to get to a destination (which is what mj had us doing)
and taking a walk just to take a walk.
You might have sat down for many hours and tried to do
the impossible, but that is not what I am talking about.

What other source of consistent solid comfort is there?
Everything seems to bite me after a while.
It keeps me out of the pits that my friends are so
regularly stuck in.

I hope you guys respond again. I value your input.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:31:39 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: burke
Subject: Re: Ananda Ji
Message:
Anon gave a convincing response so I think he probably at one time wanted to be an instructor so I have decided to call him Anand Ji


As a matter of fact Bill, when I was in Maharaji s ashram I was one of the few people there who didn t have aspirations or ambitions to be an instructor. I thought that if I was really sincere then such Service would automatically manifest at the right time. I was subsequently more and more surprised to notice that, without any doubt whatsoever, the effective principle to escape the drudgery of ashram life and to be elevated into the blessed ranks of Instructors, seemed to be quite the opposite. ie. Those who most loudly advertised their desire to serve MJ and put themselves forward the most brazenly were the ones who caught the attention of MJ. Grace was an imaginary factor and my ideas of being known to MJ whilst remaining silent and humbly insignificant only served to increase the speed at which I sunk into the darkest and most dismal and isolated depths of obscurity and anonymity .Thus, year in and year out, I rotted away in various Ashrams which Maharaji neither knew of or gave two hoots about.


Therefore I think you will agree that my pseudonym of Anon was, and is, utterly appropriate and your attempt to change my name to a Hindu one is against my wishes, thank you very much all the same.


Anand Ji, you seem to be of two minds or rather two opinions about the breath issue.


It is easy to wax lyrical about the intoxication one experiences when high . In my experience it is important not to get too carried away with such reactions. More sensible to exercise some mental restraint and not to assume anything. The experience is open to interpretation and as such, there are many colourful, varied and differing ones being expressed.


Today at work ed said he's reading a book on Quantum Physics. And that Einstien said he was gonna prove there was an underlying reality. Well he died instead. The quantum people have (according to ed), come to the conclusion that there is no underlying reality that its just motion and space. I think they are overlooking life, in the sea of motion some things are alive and life and conciousness are a reality that sub atomic analysis doesnt touch. So if I am going to explore life and be as free of programing as I can, I find myself left with Time and time is the leading edge of motion. and the most evident of all the constant motions is my breath.


Fine.


And today like all my recent days I had lots of interaction with lots of people in alot of places and many dif ages.
By feeling my breath consistently I wasnt vulnerable to the many dif. emotions and stresses that other people had little defense to. I was comfortable so it was from comfort and ease that I dealt with the demands of my day. I also noticed that in that comfort i had easy accessability to kindness and understanding and that a joyful feeling would sometimes bubble up.


I know exactly what you mean. I have had the same experience and this is (at the very least) a major appeal of meditation. It seems to sets you up for the day in a kind of generous anaesthetic bubble. It is claimed that there is a lot more to it than that. Ultimately MJ and past Satgurus have claimed that, when accompanied by the Grace (spiritual power) of a living Master, such practices will carry your soul (Jiva) into the highest reaches of perfection. And so on and so forth.


Today I thought that if you are in a raft on water it might look like your just riding the waves but there is an ocean under there and lots of stuff in that ocean. same way, I think that the breath is my access point to the good stuff however-


Yup.


There is a big difference in taking a walk to get to a destination (which is what mj had us doing) and taking a walk just to take a walk. You might have sat down for many hours and tried to do the impossible, but that is not what I am talking about.


Maharaji effectively claims to be able to take responsibilty for the welfare of your soul if you follow his recently simplified course in the Radhasoami way of life. In other words he doesn t expect you to sit down for many hours and tried to do the impossible, he only requires that you do at least a little meditation. But he does have a considerable amount of other requirements as we all know.


What other source of consistent solid comfort is there? Everything seems to bite me after a while. It keeps me out of the pits that my friends are so regularly stuck in.


Try becoming materialistically comfortable, physically healthy, mentally alert, get enough sleep, be honest, virtuous, integral etc. enjoy the pleasures of life and don t be negative. Achieving that lot should keep you busy. You won t have time for meditation!
Seriously though. Most Premies are chronically preoccupied with following MJ at the expense of all the aforementioned. I know I was and I can t help noticing that it is still a general rule. Whichever way you slice it, practicing knowledge MJ s way isn t and never has been about getting through the day painlessly. It is inextricably tied up with believing in Maharaji as a Saviour and supporting him (not necessarily financially but certainly morally) in his stated mission.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 14:03:30 (EDT)
Poster: burke
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Ananda Ji
Message:
Hi anon
now i know why you are anon I thought it was from either
the AA al anon or the Egyptian god.
Your right about the instructors, the one guy from
hartford who was picked for the program was the most
small minded judgemental beast i have ever met.
I was stunned when he was picked.
It wasnt enough to wake me up however.
Since Im in the deprogramming mode I am interested in
accomplishing the sort out process.
What do you think about the wandering attention issue?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 19:36:09 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: burke
Subject: Re: Ananda Ji
Message:
What do you think about the wandering attention issue?
Dear Bill
please remind me about this issue, my attention has possibly wandered too far from this one.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 23:41:31 (EDT)
Poster: bill
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Ananda Ji
Message:
hi Doodah

In light of you story I want to at least once say your name
I recognise your presence.

I had to go so I didnt word that question very well.

When I was alone for 10 hours a day I found that the
nature of my thinking machine was unruly and relentless.
I could be creative and focus on subjects but the truth of it seems to be that prisoners know that being alone is
not desireable and the warden will put them alone
without stimulation to punish them.

It just seems that ,as i explore the issue, that it is not so out of whack if i am feeling something.

I dont think many people think that they are out of thier
own control, but it seems to be everybodys true condition.

I really dont want to bring m into any discussions because i am trying to proceed fresh.

I appreciate you taking the time because i really dont have
anyone to bounce off on my core search issues.
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Date: Sat, May 31, 1997 at 22:21:05 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: bill
Subject: Re: Ananda Ji
Message:
From what I understand you to be saying in your post, you feel that your thoughts move too quickly from one 'thread' to another, without allowing yourself time to decide where to store them, or if you even want to pursue a particular train of thought further. And that you feel this is the norm among people.

Your mind is like your own personal computer, so to speak. Feed it conflicting 'truths', and it will work overtime trying to resolve the conflicts. Left unresolved, you may experience strong mood swings. Remember that episode of Star Trek where Kirk caused some computer to self-destruct when he directed it to resolve its own inconsistant behavior and programming? That's what I go through when I have strong unresolved yet conflicting beliefs that I'm holding onto. Often, I found that both sides of the conflict were incorrect beliefs based on hearsay. I realized, also, that I was trying to make big decisions based on no actual experience. Like what's going to happen to me when I die? What should I do to ensure that it's nothing bad? Who should I believe? I finally just chucked the questions out the window, since they were laid on me by other people who were trying to sell me a malady and remedy for it at the same time. I bought the malady, but had problems believing the remedy. I decided to deal with it when I die. People who would tell me it will be too late then are usually alive when they're saying it, so there's a bit of a credibility gap there. Don't know if that helps you or not.
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Date: Sun, Jun 1, 1997 at 02:39:29 (EDT)
Poster: burke
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Ananda Ji
Message:
I had to reread that a few times and it really is quite
good analysis
during the time of aloneness I was wrestling with
the m issue.
And your unresolved issues comments seem to
nail it.

So thanks for the help.
Hope you liked my comedy attempts,Tonight Im going
into the future.
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Date: Sun, Jun 1, 1997 at 02:53:35 (EDT)
Poster: burke
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Ananda Ji
Message:
I had to reread that a few times and it really is quite
good analysis
during the time of aloneness I was wrestling with
the m issue.
And your unresolved issues comments seem to
nail it.

So thanks for the help.


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Date: Sun, Jun 1, 1997 at 07:25:22 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: burke
Subject: Re: Ananda Ji
Message:
I was going to add something else on to that post after I sent it, but it was late and I was tired.

Ten years ago I quit drinking. Also quit smoking dope. The combined effects of the loss of my main 'escapes' was overwhelming. I had a huge backlog of thoughts and self-doubts that I'd stuffed away in some internal closet, and they all cascaded out suddenly. Each had some strong emotion attached to it, and the effect of trying to sort them caused me even more anxiety. Had wild mood swings. Basically, I was dealing with the problems of a 35 year old man, and had only the emotional maturity of a 16 year old boy, since that was my age when I started smoking dope, drinking, and shuffling things off into the 'closet'. I'd like to tell you that I just watched calmly as each came and went, but I didn't. I swung with the mood swings. The only thing that I did do right, after I finally got a grip on what was happening, is that I stopped acting on each one as it passed. When I felt anger, for instance, it was worse if I expressed it screaming at someone. They eventually passed, and now I try hard to deal with things honestly and directly as they come up, and to keep my 'closet' empty. Or at least orderly.
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Date: Sun, Jun 1, 1997 at 10:50:54 (EDT)
Poster: burke
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Ananda Ji
Message:
Brian would you give me feedback on the no rules rules
thread.
Im leaking lava and its no picknic, It may have some accuracy but feedback here is quality and useful.
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Date: Wed, May 28, 1997 at 17:12:49 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Calling all ex-Borg
Message:
I am stopping here to let everyone I haven't e-mailed ( I sent 3 and then decided I'd post here instead), that there is a video that is a hoot to rent. It is the latest Star Trek movie called First Contact. In it, there is a collective called The Borg, and you don't have to be a Sci-fi fan to enjoy this flick. The Borg assimulate people to attain Perfection. Captain Picard is an ex-Borg and follows a personal mission to destroy them, which he will suceed in doing only if his passion for revenge doesn't consume him first. It has some stuff in it that sent my son and I into fits of laughter. It is far more entertaining than any other Trek film of the past and I know all of my fellow ex-Borgs will get a charge out of it.

Am I mistaken, but did the collective not return anyone to the forum after the event this past weekend? Have they been given their directive not to frequent here?

Everyone promise me you'll see First Contact soon?
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Date: Wed, May 28, 1997 at 18:14:08 (EDT)
Poster: Borg 3 (Scott)
Email:
To: Borg 9 (Deena)
Subject: Re: Calling all ex-Borg
Message:
You will be assimilated, resistance is futile!
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Date: Wed, May 28, 1997 at 19:01:18 (EDT)
Poster: Borg 3
Email:
To: Borg 9
Subject: Re: Calling all ex-Borg
Message:
PS: In addition to my other fatal attractions, I am also a one time StarTrek junkie (Trekie). As I recall, according to the polls, the Borg series of Star Trek episodes was voted s the number one series of episodes in all of Star Trek, Next Generation. The 'Runner Up' that I, (and all of the other trekies), liked and that was voted as #2 was one in which Picard's mind was temporarily hijacked into a sort of different dimension by a benign probe from a now extinct race.

In that episode, the members of the now extinct race had designed this probe to give the first person to come into contact with it a real life experience of living, and dying amongst them, just as they had once been.

After what seemed like a few years, Picard began to forget about his life as a star fleet captain and to engage with the culture of the now-extinct race. Eventually he forms a family, has a child and then a grandchild. Finally his illusory world comes to an end and all of the characters of his illusory life come back to greet him farewell.

- Back on the Enterprise, 20 minutes later he regains consciousness. Wow!

- Does this episode ring any bells, (remind you of any Sat Sangs?)

- Scott
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Date: Wed, May 28, 1997 at 19:12:56 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Borg 3
Subject: Re: Calling all ex-Borg
Message:
I heard Maharaj Ji said Star Trek is a cult.
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Date: Wed, May 28, 1997 at 19:52:23 (EDT)
Poster: Borg 3
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Calling all ex-Borg
Message:
I heard Maharaj Ji said Star Trek is a cult.
I guess he should know. He is the expert on these things isn't he?
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Date: Wed, May 28, 1997 at 23:04:29 (EDT)
Poster: ex-Borg
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Re: Calling all ex-Borg
Message:
This is rich. The one nite I am actually on the forum and it's quiet. Where is everyone?

I really enjoyed reading thru archive #10. I especially liked your story JW of Maharaji's near fall off his throne...and the all the kings men couldn't put Humpty together again, if only!. Wish I could have seen that. Still looking forward to your phone call, anytime is a-ok.

Judging from the lack of premie input I'd venture to quess MJ made his wishes known that he doesn't want premies confusing what he's doing by their interpretations on this forum.

Maharaji... if you are reading this, I am so happy to end my 16 year marriage to you. I was completely committed to you. I loved you like nothing else in this life. I would have done anything for you. I couldn't separate the message from the messanger because the knowledge, the student and the master is what you say is the only way to have in this life the experience of Truth. I enjoyed meditating, as you recommended, more than 1 hour per day. I served you because the feeling of wanting to do service was a natural result of devotion to you. I watched every video you released and loved that too. I remembered you in everything I did and felt grateful of the love I thought we shared. I longed to see you. The ultimate for me, was to be in your presence. I was humbled by your Grace. I didn't feel worthy of your blessings. And all the while something was crying out to be heard. The voice of sanity. I ignored it because you always said to be rid of the doubts and confusion. But the funny thing is that now that I listened to those doubts, I am free and happier than I have ever been!

I am sane now. Not in the realm of knowledge of course. A realm that only exists in your delusional thinking. I wish you would set people free. The people you call premies need to be set free. You can give them that freedom by letting them know that they don't need a Perfect Master. That what you offer has caused harm to many in the past and still does as you read this. It's time to call it quits. Call it a day Maharaji.

See guys what happens when you leave me all alone?
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 03:42:09 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: ex-Borg
Subject: Re: Calling all ex-Borg
Message:
Yes. It is good.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 07:30:01 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: Deena
Subject: Re: Calling all ex-Borg
Message:
Yes. It is good.
Thanks Deena,
I second the vote. Maharaji, when will you see that you are not setting people free with your insistance on being their spiritual master, you are enslaving them? Let your people free. Let yourself free!

Scott

PS: While I don't think we need fear being re-assimilated by M.'s Borg-World, I do think that there are a few certain principals of truth that we would probably all agree upon.

Truth eventually assimilates falsehood.
Light assimilates darkness.

Well gotta catch my plane. See you next week.
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Date: Thurs, May 29, 1997 at 11:30:32 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: ex-Borg
Subject: Re: Calling all ex-Borg
Message:
Do you really think there has been some kind of divine agya that GMJ doesn't want premies participating here? Not that I mind; I founnd the premies at first interesting because they displayed so well the programmed thinking I once spouted myself, but then I would find them annoying and even infuriating because the wall of rationalization and repression they displayed was so high. I think OP was the most extreme example of this because she made the pretense of just being "informative" and thoughtful, when all the time she had to do mental gymnastics, and just plain give up at points and rely on blind faith, to keep her guru-trip from falling apart completely.
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Date: Mon, Jun 2, 1997 at 11:17:34 (EDT)
Poster: Paul
Email: oily2000@aol.com
To: Deena
Subject: Re: Calling all ex-Borg
Message:
I am stopping here to let everyone I haven't e-mailed ( I sent 3 and then decided I'd post here instead), that there is a video that is a hoot to rent. It is the latest Star Trek movie called First Contact. In it, there is a collective called The Borg, and you don't have to be a Sci-fi fan to enjoy this flick. The Borg assimulate people to attain Perfection. Captain Picard is an ex-Borg and follows a personal mission to destroy them, which he will suceed in doing only if his passion for revenge doesn't consume him first. It has some stuff in it that sent my son and I into fits of laughter. It is far more entertaining than any other Trek film of the past and I know all of my fellow ex-Borgs will get a charge out of it.

Am I mistaken, but did the collective not return anyone to the forum after the event this past weekend? Have they been given their directive not to frequent here?

Everyone promise me you'll see First Contact soon?


Hi

I'm new to this group - and the web site - so I've just discovered your message.

Yes I'm an ex borg - and a group of us from our church went to see the film just into the new year - it had so much truth in it - I was amazed.

Then we got home - only to find that a pipe had burst (due to a thaw) and while friendly neighbours helped us mop up the water at 2AM - I had a wild thought that the borg were still after me - yes I was amused.

But the story line of being overtaken - having your personallity stripped - and loosing your identity - was what DLM seemed to me back all that time ago just after I left the guru.

It was in 1972 that I left it behind and became a born again Christian - I have found Jesus only wants to buid me up and encourage me.

My journey is still going on - but with Jesus as my Lord.
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Date: Mon, Jun 2, 1997 at 19:44:48 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Paul
Subject: Re: Calling all ex-Borg
Message:
'It was in 1972 that I left it behind and became a born again Christian - I have found Jesus only wants to buid me up and encourage me.

My journey is still going on - but with Jesus as my Lord.'

Just another cult, my friend. Just another cult.
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Date: Mon, Jun 2, 1997 at 20:43:23 (EDT)
Poster: burke
Email:
To: Paul
Subject: Re: Calling all ex-Borg
Message:
Hi paul

oops perhaps this is bad timing,
I just mucked up this whole website with wild rantings and

they are are hardly aimed at the wandering innocent
christian.

welcome to the lions den or as Jim puts it,
the tunnel of love.

sorry but I feel compelled to launch into another
wild tale as I found out something today.

Its certainly about Jesus and its the OP the NUN thread.
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Date: Wed, Jun 4, 1997 at 07:46:42 (EDT)
Poster: Paul
Email: oily2000@aol.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Calling all ex-Borg
Message:
'It was in 1972 that I left it behind and became a born again Christian - I have found Jesus only wants to buid me up and encourage me.

My journey is still going on - but with Jesus as my Lord.'

Just another cult, my friend. Just another cult.
Jim

I understand your scepticism, but I have a relationship with Jesus - yes I've had my ups and downs since 1972, but 25 years later he still is with me.

Not a denomination - but walking with Him.
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Date: Wed, Jun 4, 1997 at 07:58:27 (EDT)
Poster: Paul
Email: oily2000@aol.com
To: burke
Subject: Re: Calling all ex-Borg
Message:
Hi paul

oops perhaps this is bad timing,
I just mucked up this whole website with wild rantings and

they are are hardly aimed at the wandering innocent
christian.

welcome to the lions den or as Jim puts it,
the tunnel of love.

sorry but I feel compelled to launch into another
wild tale as I found out something today.

Its certainly about Jesus and its the OP the NUN thread.

Hi Burke

Thanks for your note - It may be the Lions den - so thanks for the warning.

It's been 25 years now - and I'm still with Jesus - and to be honest I'm glad I left DLM behind - Jesus helps me a great deal - and I do love Him lots.

I took a look at the OP the Nun - it doesn't change what has happend for me.

Paul
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Date: Wed, Jun 4, 1997 at 10:22:37 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Paul
Subject: Re: Calling all ex-Borg
Message:
'It was in 1972 that I left it behind and became a born again Christian - I have found Jesus only wants to buid me up and encourage me.

My journey is still going on - but with Jesus as my Lord.'

Just another cult, my friend. Just another cult.
Jim

I understand your scepticism, but I have a relationship with Jesus - yes I've had my ups and downs since 1972, but 25 years later he still is with me.

Not a denomination - but walking with Him.
Paul,

The level of self-deception you need to believe you have an imaginary friend with you always is remarkable. The only reason you can keep it up is that our society has traditionally fallen for this myth. Of course you say Jesus is still with you. How could he ever leave being that he doesn't exist in the first place? Anymore than any of the other super heroes we keep dreaming about. Christianity is a dangerous joke on humanity. You've been had.
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Date: Wed, May 28, 1997 at 14:01:49 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: New Archive #10
Message:
Dear Forum participants,
- I have just begun the archive process for Archive #10. It should be done in the next hour or so. I had to do this one a bit prematurely as I have to be out of town for the next week. Will let you know as soon as it's available.

- Scott
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Date: Wed, May 28, 1997 at 15:57:34 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: All
Subject: Re: New Archive #10
Message:
Archive #10 is now fully up and running.
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