Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 12 | |
From: Jun 13, 1998 |
To: Jun 20, 1998 |
Page: 5 Of: 5 |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 16:52:00 (EST)
From: seymour Email: seymour_t To: Everyone Subject: Web Page Updates Message: I don't wish to be old moaner, but what is happening to the Web Pages? I just had a look at the 'site news' and see that the last time anything changed was January. There used to be a 'What's new' section that changed quite regularly. I know it must be a lot of work adding new things, and we are lucky to have a site at all, but..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 18:31:23 (EST)
From: Anon Email: None To: Brian Subject: To the Site Commitee Message: I have to say that I agree with Seymour about the 'Site News' page. When someone visits a webpage and has read it thoroughly, on future occasions they are going to immediately go to the 'Site News' page. ('What's New' pages, and the like, are ubiquitous to most good websites that offer resources on particular subjects, and they are usually updated very regularly). On finding that the 'Site News' section is unaltered since way back, ones reaction would naturally be to conclude that the site is pretty stagnant and unattended, and probably one would hesitate to peruse the site again as a result. If you are not inclined, or are unable to find the time, to update that page, perhaps it would be better to simply remove it. Seymour, it is simplicity itself to upload webpages and is not much effort at all. Brian, I hope you will heed some of the suggestions that have been recently made and start injecting some new life into it. What about a counter etc. and all the other suggestions people have made??? It seems to me that all your energy is going into maintaining the Forum, which is fine but the website is begging for some changes..even little ones. I have said this but I will say it again. A webpage is like a magazine and it needs to change constantly to maintain the readers interest. How many of the Forum participants return to the website having read it all once? Very few I'll bet. What about the pictures? The comedy page? I could knock up the html for you in an hour and have it uploaded if I had access! How about a poetry page for Gods sake? The forum has already yielded a mine, a wealth of material in that area alone..thanks to the resident poets ..Let's get them up there! OK all you site commitee folk.. what's your excuse for the lack of imagination being exercised? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 18:42:55 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Anon Subject: To the Site Commitee Message: No counters, please!!! Those are the stupidest things. They don't portray any accurate info. on who has been where. They just register hits to the site Let's give Brian all the credit he deserves. As far as I can tell he is solely responsible for the technical side. If the content side needs improvement, I think someone else should volunteer. It is too hard to do both at once. I know from learning the hard way. Also, I do agree that a simple solution is to get rid of the news entry. No one would miss it if they didn't know it existed. And the real news gets conveyed here in the fourm, much to M's annoyance I am sure. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 20:10:18 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Anon Subject: About the Site and Commitee Message: Dear Anon - I want to clarify the purpose of the 'site committee' here - it is convened at Brian's request to make moral/ethical/etc. decisions about the site - not to generate content. (Most of the people on the committee are really busy - e.g. Scott - and don't have the time to actually work on new pages). Brian does have people such as me, Robyn, VP, etc. working on new material, but none of us knows how to 'make it into a page' - in other words we just submit raw material to him. I happen to know that he IS working on new stuff. Please try and understand that he has a job where he gets paid by the hour (he has NO access to a computer at this job) and he has been working a lot of hours lately to try and pay off some of the depts he generated while writing the programming for the forum, the French-language site, and the French forum. Also, a personal request to both you, Seymour, and anyone else - please e-mail Brian with your requests about the site before posting them on the forum. If you get no response, then I think it's fair game to post them on the forum, but try the e-mail route first. I think he'd appreciate it. Regards from Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 20:45:00 (EST)
From: Anon Email: None To: Katie and Selena Subject: About the Site and Commitee Message: Fair enough. I will email Brian. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 20:47:17 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Anon Subject: About the Site and Commitee Message: Thanks, Anon. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 21:35:56 (EST)
From: PaulR Email: None To: All Subject: About the News Page. Message: My experience tells me that a site does not need to be nearly as dynamic as the more web savvy users think it needs to be for the ordinary user of the site. Don't be so quick to write off this news site (which I am now going to look at for the first time.) I'm just really pleased you are here and thank you all. regards and good wishes paulR Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 21:46:31 (EST)
From: PaulR Email: None To: seymour and others Subject: Web Page Updates Message: Dear all, Just had a look at Site News. The old date is not too old. We've seen much older on the WWW. Why not remove the date altogether? I agreee that the counter is ugly and countermands the idea that it is not a waste to have only helped even one person. Web pages would be OK but we can all get those elsewhere. Tripod, Geocities, TheGlobe etc for FREE. This is a pretty good site technically. Good wishes and thanks to all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 16:02:52 (EST)
From: seymour Email: None To: PaulR Subject: Web Page Updates Message: I am sorry that I did not use e-mail to Brian rather than use the forum but I still think the Web site could be a bit more dynamic. I know I cannot really criticise as I hardly ever even contribute to the forum - but as Anon says, there are probably lots of internet whiz kids out there who would be willing to contribute a few hours if they were given things to do. Anyway I do think the site is great and long may it continue. Seymour. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 16:01:13 (EST)
From: mo@n, mo@n, mo@n... Email: None To: seymour Subject: Web Page Updates Message: Ah, a bit of support for my 'liven up the site' appeal. Keep those comments coming in and perhaps Brother Brian will get his head out of his Forum and into generating some fresh ideas. Come on Brian, what do you say? Un peau of Francais est tres bon, mais don't loose sight of the boule. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 16:53:19 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: mo@n, mo@n, mo@n... Subject: Web Page Updates Message: Mo@n: ...perhaps Brother Brian will get his head out of his Forum and into generating some fresh ideas. Sure. How about an interactive tarot card program, or I-ching? Or a fashion show featuring the various clothing styles worn by the Guru in his different 'periods.' A fashion mag entitled: 'From Sackcloth to Hemp.' A page for premie art, and interpretive dance. How about 'cars he has owned' or 'cars he has dismantled,' or 'cars he left in the airport parking lot.' A game entitled 'pin the tail on the Guru.' A fast-forward 'Annual Migration Patterns of the Premie Communities in North and South America.' A cookbook: '100 Completely Flat Dishes Made with Tofu,' or 'Beans, Rice and Caviar: Culinary Elitism in Elan Vital.' A calendar depicting the seven days of the year than are not DLM holidays. 'This is the Guru... on His Swing.' Devotional Songs by the Charles Manson Family. A guided tour of His residences, hosted by Lee Radziwell. Devotional Songs by the Rawat Family. HELP! I CAN'T STOP! -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 17:13:48 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Web Page Updates Message: Don't forget Quick Time Movies: Gooroo Maharaj Ji dancing in his mala thingy. A speeded up darshan line. A speeded up tractor ride with his fat butt bouncing all over. And his breasts. A close up of his head during the grease phase. You know, maybe quick time movies would give us nightmares. Never mind, Brian. bad suggestion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 04:12:46 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Web Page Updates Message: Stop! Stop! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 16:54:31 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: mo@n, mo@n, mo@n... Subject: Web Page Updates Message: Come on D@vid (I assue that's who you are) - Give Brian a break. You are the one who hung out the 'webmaster wanted' sign, and he's the one who volunteered to do it. How much did you like people making 'helpful' suggestions when you ran the site? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 19:46:11 (EST)
From: mo@n, mo@n, mo@n Email: None To: Katie Subject: Web Page Updates Message: Look Katie, I know I hung the out the 'webmaster wanted' sign over the site but I did my bit and then passed on the flame. I'm just a trifle depressed that it seems to have flickered a little lifelessly ever since. Take the techniques for example. Why did Brother Brian cut then out? Sure they show some grey-haired gentleman balancing ridiculously on his baragon made from a coffee table leg. But so what? These techniques are the cornerstone of Captain Rawat's teaching and revealing them helps break the bubble. As far as I remember Brian said he found the tongue swallowing a bit too graphic for his over-sensitive tastes. So he takes them out. That's fine if he replaces them with something that describes them better. But he doesn't. Or if he has, I can't find it. To see the uncut version as it was, click here Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 19:51:15 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: mo@n, mo@n, mo@n Subject: Web Page Updates Message: I guess I'd have to repeat to you what I just posted in my response to Anon above in the other tread about this stuff. I don't get it, what's up with you guys? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 21:46:56 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: mo@n, mo@n, mo@n Subject: A good goal Jimmy Message: Dear Mo@n Ma@n; I thought your web site was very good and I liked the photos. You look young for your age. Not bad for a guy in his sixties. I think it would be a good idea if there was a permanent link to your web site from this web site. Please can we have one? But at the end of the day it's a game of twenty two men and a ball. The lads made a good start and Jimmy's chin is getting longer. But it's good for the game and it's the kind of game we want to see. These American guys won't know WHAT I'm on about, will they. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 22:56:34 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Jimmy's Chin?????? Message: Sir David, Kindly explain. Is this soccer lingo? American Bottle Blonde in California, USA Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 10:20:57 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: eb Subject: Jimmy's Chin?????? Message: The Jimmy I'm talking about here is Jimmy Hill, England's best known and loved football (soccer) commentator. He is famous for his prominent chin and also well known for his endless football cliches like 'It's goals that count' or 'The lads have given 110%' 'Good for the game' etc etc. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 16:25:43 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Jimmy's Chin?????? Message: Thanks for the explanation. I learn so much here on the forum. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 22:10:57 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: mo@n, mo@n, mo@n Subject: Web Page Updates Message: Dear David - Several people have asked for the knowledge pages to get back on line - especially the pictures of you. I don't know if they just want to view the 'beefcake' (pictures of a cute guy), or are really interested. We're trying to compile some differences in the way we were taught the techniques (especially the third technique, or 'word'.) o far, the techniques have (as far as I know) just been replaced by verbal descriptions (from Mr. Ex). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 15:46:10 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Playing fair in the sandbox Message: Hello, everyone. Just got back from a week of trying for fair play in the sandbox!! (Vacation???) What did I miss last week? I'll go through the archives later, but someone give me the cliff notes, will ya? I read this below and would love an explaination... ' half the 'premies' were fabrications anyway...which got very confusing...now I don't trust anyone on this Forum anymore....(except me)' Who are the premies who were fabricated? CD? Mili? Bruce? Jack? VP Confused after one week away from this place Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 16:18:40 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: VP Subject: Playing fair in the sandbox Message: I missed that one VP but I would also like to know. If ex's were pretending to be premies, it's unfair to new people, as we were only 6 months ago. Maybe someone realized that and that's why we no longer have to suffer through Mili and CD posts. Still... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 16:18:41 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: VP Subject: Playing fair in the sandbox Message: Well, there was one called John Hammond-Smith (after a few posts I saw the email address lockedbag@asylum but I thought someone was sending up the real guy!) Then I wondered about DOC - then i wondered about everyone new! (and some of the old ones) - anyway, just to explain what that was about. It was some smarty pants joke, but I was giving 'anti-satsang' to this guy -= in fact I told him to fuck off! So at least the not so pleasant side of my otherwise sterling character came into view (naiivety, overly-serious and generally a dick-wit at times).(and foul-mouthed to boot) Good to see you back Mr VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 16:51:55 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: VP Subject: Playing fair in the sandbox Message: Welcome back, VP! It's been a wild week on the forum (I am exhausted). As far as I know, CD, Mili, Bruce, and Jack are all real premies. In fact, I have e-mailed CD, Mili, and Jack; Brian has corresponded with Bruce by e-mail; Jim KNOWS Jack; and another person on here knows CD. Plus CD and Mili have web sites. (BTW, CD and Mili are at the big program in Wembley now.) The only 'fake' premie that I'm aware of is our pal John Hammond-Smythe, also that 'p' character that was actually John K. Katie P.S. If you only read one old post, it's gotta be Rick's advice to Robyn on how to cuss out Jim. It's a classic. I'll try to dig it up and e-mail it to you. It'd go over big on the Riviera. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 17:06:18 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: K, J and S--xoxo Subject: real premies Message: Thanks, everyone. I thought that maybe I had missed something big. Katie, I realized that all of those guys were real, but one can only hope... Ha ha! Where IS Jim, BTW? I'd love to read that post. Thanks, VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 17:50:31 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: VP Subject: real premies Message: VP: Jim, apparently, has taken a powder. I think it must have been something I said. Either that, or he just can't tolerate the idea of tarot readings on the site. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 18:11:37 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: real premies Message: Taken a powder? It wasn't me I swear. I didn't slip hin any Blue Balls or other potion. I practice White Magic. (I know it must be some kind of regional saying.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 19:08:08 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Selena Subject: taking a powder Message: Selena: To 'take a powder' means to leave an event without fanfare. I'm not sure about the origin of the phrase, but think it comes from the 30s or 40s era. The first time I heard it was in the 'Thin Man' series with Myrna Loy and Dick Powell. (On TV, not in the original theater version.) I suspect it has to do with not leaving in a 'cloud of dust,' hence you take the powder with you, so to speak. Just a guess. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 19:17:46 (EST)
From: Peter Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: taking a powder Message: Scott-- I'm pretty sure that 'taking a powder' refers to a woman disappearing briefly (from the dinner table or whatever) to refresh her makeup (her powder). So I'm picturing Jim right now sitting on a satin cushion in front of a mirror with lights all around it. He's holding one of those fat camel-hair(?) makeup brushes, arching his eyebrows, and getting his rouge just right. Thanks for the great image. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 19:27:58 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Peter Subject: taking a powder Message: Peter: It works for me. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 21:03:00 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: taking a powder Message: I've heard the Thin Man series was very cool although I never saw any of it. Someone told me it was kind of precursor to 'The Prisoner' which I do remember and liked a lot. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 21:52:31 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Selena Subject: Thin Man Message: Selena: The Thin Man was actually more akin to The Avengers, except that it was a wise cracking husband and wife team. The Prisoner, with Patrick McGoohan, was great but nothing like the Thin Man. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 05:13:17 (EST)
From: Anon Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Thin Man/Prisoner Message: Scott, while I remember...when you go cycling around Wales you must visit Portmerion. This is the place where they filmed 'The Prisoner.' It is a 'village' designed entirely to the quaint and somewhat bizarre tastes of 'Architect Errant' William Clough-Ellis. It has become a Mecca for 'Prisoner' fans worldwide. Definately worth a visit whilst you're in Wales. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 07:01:00 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Anon Subject: Thin Man/Prisoner Message: Scott, are you going to Wales? One of the dearest people I ever met was a guy from Wales called Alun (pronounced Aloon). His folks own a farm there where they raise horses, and people make films on their land (it must be beautiful) like Robyn Hood, Prince of Thieves. I have a standing invite for devonshire tea if ever in the neighbourhood. Is it a small country? Look out for draught horses and outlaws on your travels, and you will be at Aloon's place! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 09:17:04 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Judex Subject: Thin Man/Prisoner Message: Judex and Anon: Alas, I probably won't get to Wales this year. Have not been riding as much as usual and am somewhat out of shape. Also, a bit worried about that impotence thing. Waiting for them to come up with a new seat design. Finally, since I'm in a job transition I don't know whether a new employer would be receptive to the idea of my taking 10 days off all of a sudden. I'd love to go riding in Wales, though. Doesn't the tour de France start in Ireland this year? -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 21:18:53 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Peter/Scott Subject: taking a powder Message: Peter is correct about the origins of this phrase. I had the very same image of Jim. Thanks for the laugh, Scott! VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 22:05:00 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: VP Subject: taking a powder Message: I have this other image, of 'Gabby Hayes' walking off into the sunset as he eats the buttons that hold up his pants. At one point, of course, his appetite causes his pants to fall. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 22:56:27 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: a serious guy? Message: Scott, You are making me laugh...and I just read your canine unmentionables post under the inactive and it was hilarious. Someone said some people here could be on Saturday Night Live. I nominate you, but ONLY if you get to star with the cast of Belushi, Akaroyd, Murray, Radner, Curtain, Chase, Morris, Neuman, etc. Is that show even funny anymore? VP Liked premies and SNL in the 70's P.S. That swing stuff was disgusting. It ruined the Robert Louis Stevenson poem forever. I read it to my kids tonight and then came in here and read that--UG! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 03:27:20 (EST)
From: Mirabai Email: None To: Peter Subject: To Peter. I can't imagine! Message: Dear Peter, just thought I'd let you know that I had a good laugh imagining your littel scenario. It's hard enough trying to imagine what Jim looks like not powdering himself. regards Mirabai. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 10:13:21 (EST)
From: Peter Email: None To: Mirabai Subject: Imagining Jim Message: Tall, dark, and handsome, with an intellectual gleam in his eye. Can there be any doubt? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 10:38:38 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Peter Subject: Imagining Jim Message: Peter: Tall, dark, and handsome, with an intellectual gleam in his eye. Can there be any doubt? Just the way I think of Gabby Hayes. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 19:31:45 (EST)
From: Mirabai Email: None To: Peter Subject: Imagining Jim Message: Tall,dark and handsome, I don't think so!.. I didn't imagine that sort of image, sorry Jim. Mirabai Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 22:02:09 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Mirabai Subject: Imagining Jim Message: Hi Mirabai - I have seen a picture of Jim and he is dark and handsome (IMHO, which you may disagree with. I have a fondness for Jewish men.). He was sitting down in the picture so I couldn't tell how tall he was. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 03:02:47 (EST)
From: Mirabai Email: golddiva@wire.net.au To: Katie Subject: Imagining Jim Message: Well Katie, I'm open to being wrong,but how old was the picture?! People can change a lot!! He maybe gave you a twenty year old picture that flattered him. No really, Jim may be very handsome. Anyway enough of such nonsense! Mirabai Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 09:05:52 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Peter Subject: taking a powder Message: Dear Peter, I just jumped in to read 'you' and just loved the image myself. :) Jim says he needs a break and I think I pushed him to it, maybe not but I've seen this pattern before. We clash and he cools off. I just hope he hasn't written me off completely. I get a lot from him and his posts. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 10:08:02 (EST)
From: Peter Email: None To: Robyn Subject: thanks Message: Thanks, I'm glad you got a kick out of it. I figure that if we flatter Jim by talking about him, he'll come back sooner. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 04:27:29 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, that wonderful sexy man Message: Jim, Jim.....Jim? Wherefore art thou Jim? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 05:05:47 (EST)
From: Richard Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: TAKING A POWDER Message: Dear Scott, taking a powder comes, I seem to recall, from the association with chalk powder where 'ball of chalk' is rhyming slang for 'walk'. Could be wrong though. Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 05:58:13 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Richard Subject: TAKING A POWDER Message: Wow that's original! It sounds right, too. how about some new ones bowl of porridge....practicing knowledge? As in, oh, excuse me for the next .......as I will be having a bowl of porridge. Please do NOT disturb. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 12:06:04 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Richard Subject: Richard Message: Dear Richard, Glad to see you here even if I am in a bit of a whirl wind at the moment. You have been in my thoughts and I hope your wife is OK. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 14:36:08 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Safe Message: Last night on PBS they ran that 1995 movie 'Safe' starring Julianne Moore, who I think is a terrific actress. [She also did a great job playing Burt Reynold's wife in Boogie Nights.] The movie is about a women who develops chemical sensitivity illness. In an attempt to get well, she ends up going to a retreat in New Mexico run by a guy who would have to be described as a 'guru.' The insidious thing about this 'guru' is that it is his ideology, that each sick person 'causes' their own illness. And they have to accept that they, themselves, are the 'cause' of their getting sick and that it isn't due to just the pollution, genetics or anything else. This 'guru' is making a fortune doing this, and the sick people do feel somewhat relieved when they blame themselves for their illnesses, because they can't really locate any other cause, and also because they have a 'teacher' who tells them what they should think and feel. But this has the result of making them dependent on this 'guru' and his retreat. [And he is making a fortune, too. At one point they point out this guru's very large mansion on the ridge above the very modest retreat center.] I found it very creepy watching this film. I had some of the same feelings I had as a premie. You know, that my problems and unhappiness were due to my own mind, my failure to surrender or devote, enough, etc, and I needed BM to tell me . This, ideology, of course, had the effect of binding me closer to BM because I became more needy and less confident that I could solve my own problems. Hence, BM took my own insecurities and problems and used them to create a need in me for him. [And, of course, he has several mansions, not just one.] The 'guru' in this film did the same thing. He used the genuine desperation of these sick people, and an off-the-wall new-age ideology, to make and keep these people dependent on him for his own personal benefit. I highly recommend the film. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 15:18:27 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: JW Subject: Safe Message: I saw that film a few months back and noticed the similarities to M's cult. Notice too how cold and distant she became to her son and husband? Now where have I seen that before? I am glad that you and I agree that this mind manipulation thing, against an unwaary person means that the person no longer knows or understands what's happening to them. That is how cults work. And they can change a person beyond all reckognision into something that is actually quite alien to their true nature. That is the big problem isn't it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 15:18:54 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: JW Subject: Safe Message: Hi JW I saw that movie a while back. It disturbed me also. Especially the scenes where the husband comes to visit and her reaction to him. the way she starts to distance more and more. And the ending with her looking into the mirror and reciting her affirmations. It was also eerie in that the makers of the film didn't seem to be trying to make a case for or against anyone. They were just telling a story and let you draw your own conclusions. Mine were ambivilent at the time, I just found it disturbing. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 15:25:37 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Selena Subject: Safe - ps Message: Also here is another example, of what I am not sure. Brainwashing? Just as in my reading of Hunter Thompson in the 80's, that quote about the acid generation. And when I saw 'Safe' while still involved in M. Neither time do I see the connection and the similarities to M until I have managed to exit myself. Interesting. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 14:05:29 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Shri Hanso Banzo Message: Where did Shri Hans get his money? How much did he leave when he died? Who got it? Wasn't the court battle when the 'Holy Family' split up really all about money and of course, power? Were they not fighting about who controls the dough and the organization? So Mataji, et al, went back to India and what was their life style there? Still the 'Rich and Famous? Like Sonny boy back in the states? It's amazing at that young age, M had the chutzpah to face down the whole rest of his family and come out of the courtroom with his hands full. And then go on to run the whole thing like a CEO of some corporation. And to marry a 26 year old airline stewardess. Before he was old enough to buy cigars! It is a fascinating story. Pretty goddam great drama, I'd say. In the Lord of the Universe film (thanks, Joy) the family is obviously fabulously wealthy. Where did all this money come from? My involvement with BM pretty much ended when the Astrodome failed to levitate. I really wanted to see that, because nothing 'happened' in meditation, I didn't get blissed out ONCE at those stupid festivals and most premies were, well, cult members, what can you expect. Too weird. It was a little embarrassing to sit there and watch it with Patty. But I'm really glad she got to see it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 16:03:33 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Some calculation Message: hey, it's not that difficult to be a rich guru in India! Say 100,000 premies give 5 rupees each at darshan 1 $ = about 25 Rupees 5 rupees is for a really poor devotee. Some are not THAT poor .... + they had quite some ashrams, and many ashram premies would work at that time .... Some of these buidings and apartments had probably been donated Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 03:39:24 (EST)
From: Iola Email: None To: RT Subject: Where have all the Flowers ... Message: Dear RT: WHERE HAVE ALL THE FLOWERS GONE: Where have all the flowers gone? Long time passing. Where have all the flowers gone? From a long time ago. Where have all the flowers gone? Making MJ's garland--everyone. When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn? Petals falling, one by one, Hollow stem standing. Nectar gone from deep inside, A long time ago. The MASTER'S here--the LORD has gone. My heart is broke--it was a con. When will I ever learn? When will I ever learn? Where have all the devotees gone? Long time passing? Where have all the devotees gone? From a long time ago? Where have all these students gone? Come to their senses--a lot of them. When will the rest of us learn? When will we ever learn. IT'S NOT NEARLY AS GOOD AS ANY OF YOURS, BUT IT'S A START. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 01:27:36 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: Everyone Subject: beer,babes and buscaglia Message: I don't read the Obit's, but today I happened onto that page. It said Leo Buscaglia kicked the bucket. At 74. He was the apostle of love philosophy I guess. My wife was big time into him some years back. Her girlfriend too. Before I met her. I just got back from some stag party for some guy and I guess this is the buzz CD is after when he goes out for beer and music at nights. You remember way back when? They printed the first bible but before that, they printed a book on humor. It was called 'C (meaning 100) funny stories'. They were tame perhaps by our 1998 standards, but they were risque all the same. 'How are you getting along with your wife? well, we both feel elated at the same time, and depressed at the same time. When I leave, I am happy and she is also, when I come back, I am depressed and she is also.' That one is not risque, but perhaps fitting with the southern baptist proclomation that women should submit to thier husbands. Most guys I know are hardly qualified to be the sole authority of thier house. It is typical that tyrants in religion would support tyranny in the home. I heard someone was a conservative baptist, I said isn't that redundant? Look at rawats wife's letter. She has to refer to HER husband as MASTER. Good grief. People that are too lazy to use love as thier method of living want obedience to thier desires by all the others around them and they will be goddamned if they will stoop to love as a method of living. What is it? It takes too much effort? Some of the guys I know drink a lot every night so tonight I thought I would try to drink as much as I could to see what they were after. I found myself trying to make the moment fun and then close my eyes and say to the power as I felt my breath going in, 'Help me make the next moment fun and good' I guess I COULD have said ' Oh, myself, ME, the Real me, I am that that is, the all, the IT, the god, I see and recognise that I am that all thingee, I WILL that I make the next moment fun and good. So be it! So sayith burke's law!' Sounds REAL swell and spiritual and accurate to me!! But the beer made me cop to the old programming that there IS a concious power besides me. Oh well, maybe next time I'll remember! What kind of party must it be to be around rawat as he tries to maintain his 'dont fergit! I am greater than YOU!' status.? While Patrick pours another Chevas Regal. The bible tells as to love our neighbors but also our enemies: probably because they are generally the same people! My wife did a living will, she said if she gets put on a respirator or life support system, she wants to be unplugged, but not till she gets down to a size 8. Leo Buscaglia used to go around and hug all the members of his audience.`Or those that hung around for that. Perhaps he debated the option of offering up his feet to be kissed? If you love me, kiss my feet. I guess he didn't see where that fit into an open relationship of good feeling and respect. Maybe the beer confused him also. I don't get it, body and blood, and dying for sins. But I DO get this one; what you do to the least, you do to me. So what? You graft buscaglia onto feeling the breath and you got it? Something like that. Goodnight all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 02:03:45 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: bb Subject: to judex Message: What was the poem your daughter read? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 04:03:30 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: bb Subject: to judex Message: She wrote one herself. It is very tender. We drove past today. There is a house with a big white tarpaulin over it (since most of it is missing) and the lawn covered in flowers. It made me sad. I glimpsed at a mag today talking about how other cultures treat death, eg in one community is is an honour to make love on a shroud that has been used to wrap the dead (this was Cosmo or something so don't know if I can trust it). People seem to really interact a lot more with the notion of death. Sarah (my daughter) told me you can buy coffins made out of papier mache these days (pre-buy them while you are alive) eg cars for car lovers, etc. It kind of sounded nice. I would buy one and keep it in my living room with flowers and pictures on it, just to remind me one day....but I guess it's a way to own your own death with a spirit the same as the way you treat life. I want mine to be more fun. But I have no idea what I would choose! Anyway , had a nice day, bought flowers with my daughter, potted them, got my fingernails dirty in 1998. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 11:24:50 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Judex Subject: Morrie Message: Judex: What do you think of the new book that's out 'Teusdays with Morrie.' My mentor was at Columbia when Morrie was a student there, and apparently knew him fairly well. The stuff he (Morrie) says sounds nice, but his ideology was so far left it was almost ridiculous. I understand he was a great teacher and so it's not surprising that he emphasized this as his end drew closer. Still, his approach is quite creative and there is some irony in the fact that the latter stage of his life was much more successfull that the earlier stages. There is some general wisdom, but it's also true that the approach to death is highly individual. My mother, for instance, believes it's all due to a 'mistake,' like somenoe way back when just added wrong and we've been perpetuating the same error over and over. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 05:22:33 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Morrie Message: Well I haven't heard of it so I'll have a look. I was in a bookstore today looking at the personal growth section (of course).My god, what feng shui, relationships advice, your birthdate, dreams, parenting, and the many Way ofs could do for your life! Which to choose? I window-shopped them all. However I am very interested in any recomended books and am heading to my library soon to look for Joan Didion and Jim's book. Who was Morrie - a teacher? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 09:23:49 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Judex Subject: Morrie Message: Judex: Morrie was a college instructor who contracted ALS. Instead of skulking off to die he continued to teach, and had his funeral before he died. The book was written by a former student, a newspaper reporter who visited him on tuesdays. Everyone is raving about the book. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 09:31:06 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: bb Subject: beer,babes and buscaglia Message: Dear bb, I don't have time right now to even read your post, I will though. I just had to comment on Leo Buscaglia. I love him! The only appropriate emmotion. :) Haven't heard anything from him since I moved to a no cable area. Has he been around? Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 13:00:02 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Robyn Subject: beer,babes and buscaglia Message: Robyn: I guess you hadn't heard, Leo Buscaglia died a few days ago. He was 74 I think. I liked Buscaglia too; how could you not, that sweet Italian optomist? He always recommended doing unconventional things to get 'out of yourself' and away from focusing on yourself. I guess in that sense he was the OPPOSITE of BM. I remember one time he said that if you were feeling down, he recommended baking chocolate chip cookies and giving them away on the street. But my favorite recommendation was once he recommended taking all your old stuff in the attic that you didn't want, wrapping them up in wrapping paper and putting them in your unlocked car and let people steal them!!!!! I thought that was great. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 13:18:49 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: JW Subject: buscaglia Message: Those suggestions are great! What a hoot I hope I run into some more of his creativity. I guess someone will write a book. Your right about being the opposite of rawat. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 18:26:04 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: JW Subject: beer,babes and buscaglia Message: Dear Joe, Thank you for telling me. I feel so sad but he certainly lived his life to the fullest, didn't he. I will have him in my thoughts and try to do some small thing to honor his life, in mine. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 04:31:00 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Robyn Subject: beer,babes and buscaglia Message: Robyn you are so soulful (and opposite of self-obsessed, whatever that is. Caring?) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 11:51:33 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Judex Subject: beer,babes and buscaglia Message: Dear Judex, Thank you so much, I really needed that. Here you are helping me so it isn't only you that needs support. Hope your eating thing balances out. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 23:06:40 (EST)
From: Gunther's mom Email: None To: Everyone Subject: hi Message: I think I may have known Katie way back when... I was just browsing and felt like checking things out. Hi to Jim, JW, and Deena. All is well here holding my happy healthy baby boy. Jim, enjoyed reading your posts about EV and the cancelled...eesh current buzzword...program, festival...aha event! I am fine. I guess I have been to busy savoring my current happiness to feel like thinking much about GMJ...BM I felt saddened by the posts about how parents neglected their kids because of the Guru dictates. So sad and so true. Gunther is graduating High School next week. And here I am starting over...and I feel so fortunate to have the chance. I like the website. I like the explanation for the curious. Would have been great when we were trying to answer Gunther's ?s. Hope all are well. Gunther's Mom Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 00:57:06 (EST)
From: red heels Email: None To: Gunther's mom Subject: neglected kids Message: Isn't Maharaji too easy to blame for everything? Sheesh. People make their own choices, and Maharaji has often told his audience that parents should do their duty when it comes to their kids. I can speak for myself and say that being an avid premie has not in the least caused my child neglect, even though I have raised my child alone and in near poverty. My child has had a baby-sitter about 4 times in his entire life up to the age of 5, and since then he visits friends for weekends when I see Maharaji, but that is not neglect. I know others who follow Maharaji who very rarely come to video events or even to see Maharaji in person because they are so devoted to their kids. You can take EVERY portion of society and point out neglectful parents, sad but true. However, it is not the fault of the portion of society they are in, it is the 'fault' of the individual parent. Maharaji has even said that we should bring our children to see him (videos or in person) *only* if that child *wants* to hear him. It's beautiful to me that he does not encourage us to push our children into listening to him. But people who want to see or hear only bad things about Maharaji, that is the only thing they will hear or see. Like Harry Nilsson said, 'You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.' Maharaji talks about people using God as a scapegoat. Well, with ex-premies they prefer to use Maharaji as a scapegoat. No offense to you, Gunther's Mom. You just pushed a button here... At least if people want to talk about all this and pretend to be honest about it, I don't understand why people won't be honest about it. Well, yes I do. We don't ever want to make ourselves the 'bad guy.' So much easier to make Maharaji (or God or Susie next door) the bad guy. Make the world black and white, and everything seems so very clear. Only one problem with that: it's only going to be true a small percentage of the time! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 01:23:56 (EST)
From: Gunther's mom Email: None To: red heels Subject: neglected kids.... Message: Hmmmm.... I am sorry if I implied all premie parents were bad parents. I remember some very caring good premie parents. Sadly, at the time I was involved, they were probably thought of as not being devoted enough by those who felt themselves to be sufficiently devoted. I am sure you are a good mom. If you read the string this mom carries the burden of knowing she did less than her kids deserved because she felt that was what being a good premie entailed. At the time I was involved a lot of that went on. It was sad. I do think when someone allows himself to be portrayed as God in the myriad of ways that Maharaj Ji did he does carry much responsibilty for what is done in his name. I want to add I thought too that mom was brave to fight the security guy to get out and meet her child's needs. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 02:01:48 (EST)
From: 5 inch spikes Email: None To: Gunther's mom Subject: neglected kids.... Message: Welcome Gunther's mom. Thanks for understanding. Also, I want to say I am as responsible for my life as the next person. How easy it is for 'red heels' to come out of the woodwork and accuse me of not taking responsiblily - and use it a nice convenient way to sneak in a defense of their lord and master. Nice timing too, when I am feeling vulnerable. Sorry red, not feeling vulnerable anymore. Find another way to defend your god/meditation teacher - or whatever you choose to call BM this year. I am with Katie, I take responsibility for MY PART. And guess what? I didn't neglect my children. Just wish some shit hadn't happened. Like interacting with nazi security guards. And BM played a part. A part he isn't taking any responsibility for. Selena Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 10:24:11 (EST)
From: seymour Email: None To: red heels Subject: neglected kids Message: Hello Red Heels, From what you say, it seems that you are a very caring parent and it would be wrong of anyone on this forum to suggest otherwise, especially as we all only know each other as 'virtual' companions. I did know a few parents in the old days however who, although they gave their children food and shelter etc., did tend to drag them to festivals all over the world when they would rather have gone to disneyworld or stayed at home watching t.v. or any number of different activities. I understand that this seems the opposite of neglect when you believe that GM has come to offer the key to infinite bliss to us and our children but to someone who is not a believer influencing children to accept religious doctrine is worse than neglect. You say 'Maharaji has even said that we should bring our children to see him (videos or in person) *only* if that child *wants* to hear him. It's beautiful to me that he does not encourage us to push our children into listening to him' but the encouragement is very subtle. I am sure that if you believe that knowledge is a good thing you would want your children to benefit from it in the same way that a good Catholic would want their children to go to church and not get the black mark of mortal sin on their souls so that if they should die they would not have the chance to go to heaven. The thing is there are so many different beliefs out their and we should tell out children that although we may follow one of these it does not mean that there is any truth in it. We do it for the same reason a heroin addict takes a fix and we should make it clear to our children that we are fools and it is up to them to hear all sides to any religious or philosophical argument before finally making their own minds up. The passing on of superstitious convictions that our based on our subjective experience and not on reality is not a good way to bring up children (IMHO) - Not that I am saying you are consciously doing this but I think we should all be careful of misleading children - even subconsciously. Cheers, Seymour Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 11:04:14 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: seymour Subject: to seymour off topic Message: Dear Seymour, I hate to subvert this very important thread, but something has been on my mind since last week - your quote about 'diving for pearls'. Is that from an Elvis Costello song, and if so what is the name of the song? Also, what is the whole quote again? I really liked it. Hope you are doing well - nice to see you here! Your friend, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 13:27:23 (EST)
From: seymour Email: None To: Katie Subject: Diving for Pearls Message: Hello Katie, Nice to hear from you and a belated Happy Birthday ( I have only just been reading through some of the archives). The song is one of my favourites and you are right about it being by Elvis Costello - at least he wrote the music( the words were sent to him by some ordinary chap called Langer). It is called 'Shipbuilding' and was first recorded by Robert Wyatt( a fine rendition). I heard that when Langer sent Elvis the Lyrics he included a note that said that he had to send them as they were the best he had ever written and he really hoped that Elvis could do something with them. He never really knew if Elvis would reply but a few days later he received a phone call from the Man, who was very excited saying something like ' I loved the Lyrics.. you said those words were your best - well I've written what I feel is my best music' and, although Elvis has written a few crackers, it must be up there with the best of them - as moving as the last chapter of the Winnie the Pooh books, and that's saying something. The words are about building ships in the North of England at the time of the Falklands war and the moral dilema the workers felt at the time.There was, and is, not much money about in that part of England due to unemployment and those with families really have to struggle to put a meal on the table and keep a roof over their heads on the pittance that the government pays out in Social Security having closed down much of the shipyards. I have known a few of these tough characters from the Jarrow Shipyards and they are hard working , hard drinking, genuine folk who would share their last few pounds with you if they felt you needed it. They have given their lives to a hard industry (for meagre wages) only to be cast aside when the profits were not good enough. With the Falkland war there was rumour that they might re-open some of the shipyards and the song deals with the thoughts of the local workers about the prospect of new jobs. The younger members of the community were looking forward to having a wage but the older ones remembered when they had to go off and fight in the second world war.The complication being that the situation was not only creating jobs but that the work was building warships to carry the young men of the area of to possibly get killed in Maggie Thatchers war ( when most of the population were staunch left wingers who were the living embodiment of the socialist ideal - one for all and all for one etc.) I have not got the record at the moment but what I can remember of the Lyrics are.. Is it worth it? A new coat and shoes for the wife and a bike on the boy's birthday. It's just a rumour that was spread around town By the women and the children. Soon we'll be shipbuilding? Well I ask you My boy said 'Dad they're going to take me to task * but I'll be back by Christmas' It's just a rumour that they spread around town. Send a Telegram or picture postcard Within weeks they'll be re-opening the shipyard (and notifying the next of kin once again) Someone said someone got filled in for saying that people get killed as a result of this shipbuilding With all the will in the world Diving for dear life When we should be Diving for Pearls * I think this was getting his call up papers to join the battleships leaving for the Falklands. I think I have got most of the words right but you have to hear it. It shows what you can do with the medium of the pop song. A tad more worthy than the Spice Girls and, probably because of it's , hardly ever played on radio. This is not much to do with EV, meditation etc... but it is to do with what is important - rather than the mystical mumbo jumbo that us ex-premies used to be involved with .. at least I think so It does however refer to the feeling that brought me to knowledge. I hated the life of just getting by and wanted to find something more. Back then, with no responsibilities I had the choice to drop out of society and become a hippy. I saw the practice of knowledge as 'diving for pearls'. I only found fool's gold and have had to spend a lot of time getting back to the point I was at a quarter of a century ago. Nowadays I am back to getting by and looking forward to diving for pearls again soon. Regards, Seymour Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 13:45:34 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: seymour Subject: Diving for Pearls Message: Thank you Seymour. What a sadly beautiful song. I forget what a wealthy society we live in here in the states. Even though I grew up in the worst of poverty we didn't have to worry about food - (maybe because I grew up in what the Reagan era lovingly referred to as the 'welfare state', massachusettes. Your post brought up some memories for me of trying to talk with premies about lyrics I had heard that moved me. Having always been involved at some level with music I tend to notice these things. Anyone else ever have this experience? You start to talk about something and it's not about M so they just kind of smile ever so sweetly and get this kind of glazed look in their eyes and go oohh, hmmm, that's great, yeah.....' Like they are bored to death and please get back on track here and talk about the important things, either themselves or M, but not some song lyrics from 'that world'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 13:58:18 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: seymour Subject: Diving for Pearls Message: Seymour, thank you very much. I have a CD with that song on it, and I have always liked it (and Elvis Costello in general), but I never understood what it was about. It is on 'The Very Best of Elvis Costello and The Attractions', BTW. I will listen to it again now that I've heard your (very eloquent) explanation. Regards from Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 16:43:07 (EST)
From: seymour Email: None To: Katie & Selena Subject: Diving for Pearls Message: Glad to hear you have the song on c.d. Katie. The words are only half the beauty of the song. I am sure you will enjoy listening to it again. Thanks to you Selena for your post I know exactly what you mean when you say.. ' You start to talk about something and it's not about M so they just kind of smile ever so sweetly and get this kind of glazed look in their eyes and go oohh, hmmm, that's great, yeah.....' Beauty and truth exist in all sorts of places and one of the worst things about being tied into the narrow perspective of something like DLM is that you do not allow yourself to pay attention to anything else. As I have said before, some of the most moving poetry, music, art etc. has come from those who are far from the 'spiritual' path. i.e. Dylan Thomas ' the force that through the green fuse drives the flower, drives my soul ' and that was probably after a bottle of scotch. Another interesting thing is that all these holy spiritual folk have never got much of a sense of humour whereas the likes of Peter Cook, who was a complete debauch, know how to make you cry with laughter. I was just listening to one of his 'sitting on the bench speeches' where he plays a surreal sort of tramp.... 'I could have been a judge but I never had the Latin, never had the Latin for Judging, I just never had sufficient of it to get through the rigorous judging exams. They're noted for their rigour. People came staggering out saying. 'My God, what a rigorous exam' - and so I became a miner instead. A coal miner. I managed to get through the mining exams - they're not very rigorous, they only ask you one question, they say, 'who are you?, and I got seventy-five percent on that'.... Of course Peter formed his own cult 'The Seductive Brethren' which drew deeply on the Kama Sutra... which he illuminated his friends with over one of his regular over indulgent lunches in Greek Street... 'At one point Sir Basil Nardly Stoads, Chief Rammer and Dragger of the Seductive Brethren - a sect devoted to the Bodily Seizing of Young Women - has been denounced for the sin of St Arnolph by the Revd 'Knocker' Prime and has been betrayed by his close friend the Clintistorit of Wintistering. He has defended himself in court.. 'Liberty is not merely a word, or a group of ants. It is a substance that permeates every fibre of a righteous man. If it is a crime to give honey to a newt, then it is your solemn duty to cast me forth into another place. If however, you believe, as I do, in the flame of justice and the balls-aching tediousness of the Revd Prume and his ilk, then I am your man!' Now Sir Basil has escaped from prison, and is in hiding on the estate of the McDoon of McDoon. The McDoon's character is beyond reproach, but the 'local glen-folk have been alarmed by recent events in the area of the Whistling Hole, a local ugly spot, traditionally the haunt of the Phantom O'Doon, a small bespectacled man clad only in butterfly wings...'and on and on... Sorry about all that - I am afraid it must all seem like typical British smutty humour, but rather than take part in sexist, shallow nonsense Peter was parodying the likes of Benny Hill and the Carry On gang and always produced his own unique nonsense. Shame about his old mate Dudley - I hope he makes a recovery. If I was still a premie everyone would have left the room long ago calling me a 'bongo' who was deep into his mind. They'd probably be right. Cheers Seymour. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 17:52:33 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: seymour Subject: Diving for Pearls Message: No need to apologize for all the quotes! Dylan Thomas was awesome. (Can you see Chris Farley interviewing him on that talk show skit he used to do on Sat. Night Live? but if you are British you may not know what i am talking about. I can just hear him, ' Uh, You remember that time you wrote about not going into that dark night? uh, that was AWESOME man'.) Anyway, so much for my great quotes of the day. You may have noticed my Hunter Thompson thread. HST was famous in Aspen for his antics. He was drunk a lot. Maybe still is. I just can't picture him at an AA meeting. (sorry!! ) But he writes to beat cheeks, and so do all the people you mentioned - at least I can speak for the ones I know about. I think this is one of the underlying themes of this site, that it's ok to be human and not to have a BM as a god. That people who never even heard of BM have contributed so much. That some of the most chemically dependent or otherwise fucked up individuals have thorugh their hard earned sweat and tears given us far more than some fat kid who inherited a god business. Because they FELT!!! Because they had a clue about what it meant to live. And therefore, so can we. We can contribute. We can live a meaningful life. We don't need a guru. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 16:11:18 (EST)
From: seymour Email: None To: Selena Subject: Diving for Pearls Message: Right on, Selena. I am also a big fan of Hunter Thompson and yes he is still drunk a lot. I read a recent interview in the Guardian (u.k.broadsheet) with him, where the interviewer, despite being warned by Hunter's assistant not to, tried to keep up with the drinking. The interview was a mess but very funny - Hunter thought the journalist was a real wimp and did nothing but make fun of him. His neighbours are terrified of him and he still likes to cause mayhem. I know not everything he has done is wonderful but he is one of life's gems. Cheers, Seymour. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 11:09:57 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: red heels Subject: neglected kids Message: dear red heels, If you read the thread below, where Selena talks about putting her own need to see M over her kids need, you'll see that she IS taking responsibility for it. I don't understand where you got the 'not taking responsibility' idea here. Also, I do feel that Maharaji is responsible for HIS part of these event. He is not completely blameless, as some premies (perhaps you) might feel. I would personally feel a whole lot better about the guy if he could admit that he'd made mistakes and apologize for them. Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 11:36:53 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: red heels Subject: We've seen this before. Message: Red Heels: I think you're missing the point here. Do you know what an 'ethical or moral bind' is? Do you not see that Maharaji's command often places families in just such a bind, and for no better reason than that it is convenient for him? Of course, if you ignore those commands, or don't take them seriously, then no harm no foul, huh? It seems ironic to me that people would now be using the fact that they were crappy premies as an excuse for Maharaji's petulance. Give us a break. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 12:20:30 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: red heels Subject: neglected kids Message: BM created a heinous, nazi, uncaring society of premies, whose main goal was to gratify their need for a blissful experience, at the cost of anything in its or His way. Of course, any fools, like us all, need to take responsibility for our part in following him. But, and this is a big but , BM was the ringleader, the John Gotti of Premiedom, and his actions were the most despicable. Instead of taking any responsibility for any of the pain he created, he's adjusted his schpeil to get him in less trouble. Irresponsible premie parents? What are you, an idiot with an IQ of 50? Did you even look around, prior to the creation of Knowledge Lite in the 80's? Premies were miserable parents. Look, you half-brained ditz, this is the way it worked. Knowledge came first. Satsang, service and medititation. Children could wait in childcare or at home, or in the car, wherever. Having a family was inferior to being in the ashram. That in itself, reaks of child abuse. Children's needs were met when there was time. It was more than neglectful because the self-righteousness that parents felt in following the Lord gave them a permission from God to put their kids second. Guess who God was? Duhhhh! BM was God. Initiators used to say, 'Put this Knowledge first. Always practice satsang, service and meditation first in your life, and maharaji will sweep up the mess of the world behind you.' See, BM didn't sweep up the mess. Selena has to sweep up the mess, and other parents. But the thing is, they can't really even sweep up the mess, because it's too late. All they can do is apologize for their small part in it, and BM's big part. Once again, I would like to point out here maharaji is called BM on this forum because those are the initials for BOWEL MOVEMENT . Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 12:48:19 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Rick Subject: neglected kids Message: Rick said: But, and this is a big but , BM was the ringleader, the John Gotti of Premiedom, and his actions were the most despicable. Rick, I like this John Gotti comparison. I just finished a book co-written by Sammy the Bull Gravano who was Gotti's Underboss before Gotti went to prison for a 100 years without parole. The authoritatian set up of the mob is basically the same as the BM's org. The unquestionable authority of the boss and the fact that the money gets funneled up for the gratification of the Boss on the top tier. One of the chapters is called 'John just fell in love with himself.' I think the BM should read this book. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 12:59:43 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Sammy 'The Bull' Message: Gerry, I heard about that book. They had Sammy on Dateline about six months ago. A group of daughters of the 19 men he killed were being interviewed. Amazing how he got away free. Amazing how BM's got away free so far. Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 15:11:49 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Rick Subject: Sammy 'The Bull' Message: What it's going to take to nail the BM is to have an ''Underboss'' of the rawat gang come forward and sing like Sammy the Bull. To the IRS or better. I think the guy is vulnerable and won't be able to cover up everything forever, although he'll try like hell. Wonder what's happening on the legal front? If there are indeed legal actions against rawat as someone here suggested, wouldn't that be a matter of public record? Anybody know how to do a couthouse check for this kind of stuff? Would it make a news story? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 16:26:40 (EST)
From: gerry the bulldog Email: None To: everyone Subject: Prem Pal Sings Message: Re: The Rawat Gang All of BM's far flung and multitudinous 'enterprises', and there are many, including tons of real estate, his high level security set up, the luxurious houses and expensive stuff, along with the capo de capo attitude of don rawat all really remind of the real Mob and their equally criminal enterprises. And they both shake people down, offer 'protection' and operate as authoritarian hierarchies. Hey maybe they could go after him with using the RICO laws pertaining to racketeering.. Wonder who is his consigliere? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 13:41:34 (EST)
From: Guenther's mom Email: None To: Rick et al.... Subject: well said Message: I agree wholeheartedly with Rick. His description is accurate. I myself left before the creation of 'knowledge lite' although I was around in 1976 for its unsuccessful trial run. (Apparently that only lasted a year as the donations fell in the toilet when premies felt they were donating to a teacher not the Lord.) LOL Knowledge lite....so funny! Red heels speaks of 'only seeing what you want to see'.....well, that statement speaks for itself. All I can say is being an ex-premie I am more free to consider the validity of any argument than a premie who must face obvious condradictions and twist the truth like a pretzel in order to swallow them. I stand by my observations about premie parents. There were some good ones, but the fact that they made the choice to be good parents, in the years 1975-1979....made them fringe premies who were a little 'in their minds'. The 'good' premies did not put their children first. The best premies did not have children at all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 15:19:13 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Guenther's mom Subject: well said Message: Hi Gunther's mom!!! So glad you and the new arrival are doing well. I just wanted to mention in regard to premie parents and their kids, that anyone who ever did security in darshan lines could see the dilemma premie parents were in. They were told that each darshan removed 10 years of karma, or something like that, and that one should never miss the opportunity to kiss the feet of the living god, which is what BM portrayed them to be. So, there was the dilemma. Premie parents felt they SHOULD, for the good of the KID, bring them to programs and darshan and to the lotus toes. Despite how the kids got treated and abused, often, at those events. I recall standing for hours doing security in darshan lines. The parents went through first, many of them literally dragging their kids kicking and screaming up to BM, sitting there in all his overweight glory, and having their kids (sometimes really LITTLE kids) kiss his feet.. They stood in line, sometimes for hours, and the kids often had no idea what was going on, and they could also feel the intensity of their parents that something really IMPORTANT, that they didn't understand, was going on. I could only describe it as child abuse, in many cases. It was very sad and bizarre. Then there was child care at programs. That was another level of hell that others can describe. Also, in the 10 years I was a premie I don't recall BM talking about children, other than his own, at all, except I recall one derrogatory comment that premies were having TOO MANY kids. Maybe since 1983 he has said some stuff that Red Heels has quoted, but it was pretty late it coming, if it came at all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 21:32:18 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: JW Subject: well said Message: Since I was one of those kids being dragged around the country to the various 'festivals'. I agree that it was no picnic being stuck in a 6 hour line to kiss some so called' perfect masters'feet.In order to please my mom, I went along with what I considered to be a degrading experience.The way the premies were acting like they were the luckiest people on earth made me ill. I was definitely left alone almost every night for satsang. At one point I accused my mom of loving the guru more than me. She couldn't really deny this, and lamely explained that her love for maharaji was what made loving me possible, or something to that effect. So believe me, from personal experience I feel that BM's cult is at the least, unhealthy and at the worst, extremely toxic and destrutive. x Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 22:36:45 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: x Subject: more stories, x? Message: Wow! Thanks for that post, x. Heartbreaking but true. I really feel for you for having to experience this crap as a child. You sound like some kids I know. It's a damn shame and I agree with your assessment of BM's group. I would be interested in hearing more about this from you (some personal stories about being a premie kid) ONLY IF you feel like telling them. Just being nosey here, but is your mom still a premie? Does she take responsibility for the past? Please don't answer anything that you don't want to or that makes you uncomfortable. I am interested if you want to talk about it. BTW, I really admire the premie parents who have posted on here about some of their past experiences and who have made/are making amends. (Selena, eb, etc.) (Hey, Jack, this is what I was referring to when we were discussing premie parenting earlier.) VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 00:05:12 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: VP Subject: more stories, x? Message: Hi VP, Yes my mom is still in it. So is my father and both of my step-parents. I recieved knowledge when I was 8 years old from mahatma jugdao in 1975. I just talked to my mom recently about all this, she said, my father told her that, jugdao told me that if i didn't use the K, I would have 3 tons of rotting vegetables in my head. Nice huh? I have been trying to de program my mom for the last 20 years, but she doesn't want to give it up. I am working on a journal entry that will be more detailed. x Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 00:13:22 (EST)
From: Iola Email: None To: x Subject: more stories, x? Message: You are amazing! What a smart kid you were/are! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 01:11:01 (EST)
From: Gunther's mom Email: None To: x Subject: more stories, x? Message: Dear X, I am not sure how long you have been on this board but I was 13 when I recieved Knowledge too from Jagdeo. I wrote months ago about some awful experiences young girls have had with Jagdeo. Friends of mine and myself. Another who posts here who lived in another country had very similar experiences. I do not know if you are a man or woman but I would, as would others here, like to know what your experiences with Jagdeo as a child were. It is rotten that you had to grow up this way. How are you now? Are you a parent yourself? I too would like to hear more from you. Gunther's mom Gunther was lucky, mom was an ex premie by the time he was born.(But still a less than perfect parent) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 11:39:45 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: x Subject: x -age and rotten veggies Message: Thanks, x. It sounds like quite a family!! And quite a story. How long have you felt that the whole thing was bogus? The whole time you were a kid, or only recently? Well, it appears that I was told another LIE when I was told that I was too young to receive knowledge (I was a little older than you were, but it was three years prior to your receiving it). I can't wait to read your Journey entry. VP P.S. You will have to get together and talk to Katie about those rotting veggies! I believe she was also told something similar. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 11:52:23 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: VP Subject: 3 tons of rotten vegetables Message: Hi VP and x - Maharaji himself actually said the thing about the rotten vegetables (he's also made a bunch of other slightly threatening remarks about what would happen if you didn't practice Knowledge). A lot of other people on here have heard it. That particular remark of Maharaji's kept me following him for a long time after I really wanted to leave - I was afraid I'd go nuts or go to hell if I quit practicing K. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 12:12:11 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Katie Subject: vegetables and hell Message: Katie, That's really horrible. I guess that fear helps keep people involved, but it's really weird. What made him think of vegetables? (Is it a hindu thing?) How would they get inside of you? BM didn't make any sense with that. If I thought he was God, I'd be afraid of veggies, too. BTW, I never could relate to the 'hell' thing in church either, because I have a hard time believing that a loving God would send me or anyone else there (well, maybe a few people-haha!) It's just a gut feeling of mine. I DO remember thinking, 'what if he really IS the perfect master?' about M. (Like I would be 'missing out' on the most important thing happening on the entire planet.) It just didn't ring true for me. Another gut feeling, based on common sense. It took a long time to shake that one off completely, though. Only recently was it settled for good. I had that fear for a while. I never thought I would go to hell, just miss out. VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 12:19:15 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: VP Subject: vegetables and hell Message: The (not-exact) quote is something to the effect of 'receiving Knowledge and not practicing it is like having three tons of vegetables in your living room and not eating them.' This sort of makes more sense. The reason it scared me so bad is that I thought that when I received Knowledge, Maharaji gave me something that I didn't already have. Now I had this thing inside me that could 'go bad' if I didn't use it. I thought that not practicing Knowledge would make me crazy or 'rotten' inside. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 12:26:00 (EST)
From: G's mom Email: None To: all Subject: vege brains..... Message: You know...this veggie thing is sort of true...leave and you discover they left a lot of rotting stuff in your head...Arti...darshan ....songs...experiences... this site is a place to unload those rotten vegetables and leave them behind.... Just a thought :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 16:20:11 (EST)
From: seymour Email: None To: Katie Subject: 3 tons of rotten vegetables Message: I hardly call being condemned to an eternity of suffering 'slightly threatening' I was terrified thinking of the many similar tales when I decided to drop out. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 16:28:16 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Guenther's mom Subject: well said Message: Knowledge lite!! I love it! Thanks Rick. The mess was indeed too large to sweep up, as my children let me know quite well and expressively as they went through their adolescence. Now the knowledge lite parents can smugly shake their heads and comment on what a bunch of misfits the first batch of M's sick experiment were. You are wonderful.. Are you sure you aren't Hunter Thompson? I see similarities to my favorite acid generation quote. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 13:01:30 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Selena Subject: HST Message: Selena, I'm probably trying to imitate him unconsciously. He's my hero too. I wish he would have written about BM... would have torn him to bits. Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 15:38:16 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Rick Subject: HST Message: You did a pretty good job in his absensce! You and JW have certainly described the 'meat hook realities' of being a premie in those days. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 22:55:55 (EST)
From: Gunther's mom Email: None To: Everyone Subject: katie Message: if you are online post okay? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 23:35:12 (EST)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Gunther's mom Subject: katie Message: Hi Gunther's mom - My husband told me this post was here. I have read your posts in the old archives, and I don't THINK we know each other, but maybe we do! You can check my Journey's entry - it is under Katie (Mischa) [there is another Katie named Katie Masters Baier in Journeys too.] Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 00:06:03 (EST)
From: Guenthers mom Email: None To: Katie Subject: katie Message: It is the other Katie that I knew. But nice to meet you anyway and thanks for answering. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 11:06:02 (EST)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Guenthers mom Subject: katie Message: I thought it might be the other Katie (it gets a little confusing). I wanted to ask you if you know Abigail? I emailed her for a while - she's a great person. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 13:13:25 (EST)
From: Guenther's mom Email: None To: Katie Subject: katie Message: Yes, I corresponded with Abigail a bit 6 months ago or so. We had much in common as some here that have read our posts and letters might be aware. I think it is amazing how she has made such a success of her life despite all the obstacles thrown in front of her. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 21:17:20 (EST)
From: Happy Hedonist Email: None To: Everyone Subject: How to read .html files Message: Hi. I missed much of the forum up until now and would like to read some of the older stuff in the archives. I downloaded some of those files and discovered that I can't read html files. Can anyone give me any ideas? I would really like to be able to access that stuff. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 22:02:42 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Happy Hedonist Subject: How to read .html files Message: I'm no computer expert, but what you probably cannot read is NOT .html files, but zipped (compressed) files, which is what the archive files are. You will need software such as WinZip or PKZip to do this (I think this is available over the net, but it costs money). Hope this helps! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 22:31:05 (EST)
From: Happy Hedonist Email: None To: Katie Subject: How to read .html files Message: Alas, good stab at it Katie, but actually I had no problem unzipping with my PKUNZIP software. It is the '.htm' files which I cannot read. I even tried reading them through my Eudora mail reader (which reads ascii) but got a message that the files were too large to open through Eudora. Oh! I just got an idea I am going to try. I have some conversion software. Maybe that will help... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 23:50:40 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Happy Hedonist Subject: How to read .html files Message: HTML files are those that are understood and viewed by a web browser (Netscape, Internet Explorer, etc). You can run your web browser to read them. Select Open File In Browser (or something like that) on the File menu part of the menu bar at the top of your screen. You should get a directory window popped up by your browser at that point, enabling you to find the HTML (HTM) files where you unzipped them on your hard drive. I think it's explained on the forum archives page where you downloaded the ZIP files. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 23:56:29 (EST)
From: Happy Hedonist Email: None To: Brian Subject: How to read .html files Message: Thanks, Brian. I actually just an hour ago called my computer guru and he told me the same thing. Now I am trying to figure out how to print some of the pages without having to print the entire file...any hints there? Sorry for all the techie questions! But is fun to learn this stuff too! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 01:00:25 (EST)
From: Stephen Harris Email: None To: Happy Hedonist Subject: How to read .html files Message: Open 'file' again; click on print preview; then zoom in; click on next page till you get to the specific page you want to print; then click on 'print' the page number will be in the bottom left hand corner of your screen; under print range select 'pages' and suppose you only want to print page 6-- then you would fill in 6 to 6 in pages If you want to print only part of one page that is too difficult for you to try, I think you need to convert formats. I have been describing Netscape. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 10:52:16 (EST)
From: david f. Email: None To: Happy Hedonist Subject: How to read .html files Message: Hey, HH. As a follow-up to Brian's post: html or htm are files you view on a browser as web pages. Another way to get to them--from the browser, select Open, and then choose the file you want to view. good luck, david. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 18:23:58 (EST)
From: Happy Hedonist Email: None To: david f. Subject: How to print html files Message: Okay, did find a way that worked: downloaded zip file onto hard drive, unzipped in DOS, came back to Netscape to read, then used Edit, Copy, minimized Netscape and went into my word processing software and made a file ready, then selected 'paste.' It worked, and the 'clean up' needed was minimal. Good to learn something new! Thanks for the advice(s). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 04:34:52 (EST)
From: Mirabai Email: golddiva@wire.net.au To: Happy Hedonist Subject: To Happy Hedonist Message: Hi Happy Hedonist, I sent you an email and it was sent back to me for some reason, I'm not sure why,perhaps I got the address wrong.I'll try again. Mirabai Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 22:20:46 (EST)
From: Happy Hedonist Email: None To: Mirabai Subject: To Happy Hedonist Message: I just got e-mail from you and replied. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 12:54:20 (EST)
From: RT Email: un uh To: Everyone Subject: RT sings Dylan Message: This {early Dylan} sat-song is dedicated to all the unemployed Residence gopis who moved there for the Bliss and found themselves unable to follow M… (sounds like Chit and Miss!) Have pity on them, for they are STUCK INSIDE A MOBILE OM WITH THE MALIBLUES AGAIN (Thank you, Bob Dylan.) Oh, the Sat Guru flies circles Up and down the block I asked him in a letter, “Why? He just looks at all he’s bought. And his Premies treat me ok. I do serve-us with duct tape. Deep inside my heart I fear I can’t escape. Oh, Karma, can this really be my end? To be stuck inside a mobile home with the Maliblues again. Well, Security dude at Residence: With his laptop and his mouse Speaking to some French girl Whom no one cares to house. And I want to send a message To rent a space to camp But the post office is “too far And no one has a stamp. Oh, Mama, will some money you please send? Yes, I’m stuck inside of Malibu with the Guru blues again. My roommate tried to tell me To stay away from the product line. I thought that all these photographs Would make my bunk divine. Soon spent all of my trust fund; Few skills to get a job. So I sat and pressed my eyelids I felt my third eye throb! Oh, Karma, is this possible to transcend? Out of luck inside of Malibu with the mobile blues again Maharaji flew away last week- (There’s a program in New York) Everyone else travels sleek. But I feel like a dork. But then the unexpected happened! Found Ex-Premie dot org. Heard he criticized the Internet- Does he think we all are Borg? Oh, Karma, can this really be my end? To be stuck inside of Malibu with the mobile blues again. Now, the Instructor came down here Asking for more funds Handing out free bank draft forms Another VISA run. Of course, In God We Trusted, This Rawat want my bucks Following him’s no free ticket Financially, it sucks. Oh, Maharaji, you have our money, can you lend? At the video in Malibu, you said you were my friend. Now, the Premie looked so baffled When I said: I need a rest. (With 20 ‘EX’ cards that Just Said Know Hidden in my vest) But he cursed me when I proved to him “In truth he cannot hide The web researchers know why You’ve been taken for a ride. Oh, Karma, can this really be my end? To be stuck with brainwashed yuppies with the Guru blues again. This Master gave me two things- And he said, jump right in. The one was Special Knowledge The other, Devotion to him. And like a fool I mixed them And it strangled up my mind Now my Master Card is maxed out, And I have no sense of time! Oh, Karma, can this really be my end? To be busted inside Malibu and my credit needs to mend. When Maharaji say come see him Near a city where he'll zoom I know I can watch him waltz for free In some library room. And I say “Oh, come on now. You know, you know about my Creator above He said, “Your Creator gives you what you need. But you get peace when I get love. Oh, Karma, can this really be my end? To be stuck inside of Malibu with the 70’s again? Truth and Lies in brainwashing Are devotedly designed The videos run so perfectly It all so seems so well timed. And here I sit so patiently - On the east bound train You’d say that I got out of The Whirled of Knowledge, drained! Oh, Karma, my life has turned a bend Unstuck, and I feel Noble that I have my life again! RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 15:50:59 (EST)
From: Iola Email: None To: RT Subject: RT sings Dylan Message: You are very gooood. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 20:17:57 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: RT Subject: RT sings Dylan Message: Dear RT, I have had a pretty intense day but full of growth opportunities so it is all good but I saw this thread and wasn't in the mood to be cheered up, now I am! Thanks! This was wonderful. Are you larkin? Just kidding, maybe. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 12:39:06 (EST)
From: oldtimer Email: None To: Everyone Subject: 'ere we go 'ere we go Message: Wemb-er-ley What with all this world cup business - it is really cosmic that GM is having a 'do' at Wembley tonight. At least that is what a premie friend told me. I wonder if there are any other U.K. ex-premies out there( or associates of current premies) who are feeling a bit sad.. not because they want to be at the stadium but because it is a shame that good mates are still caught up in it all. I suppose they enjoy it but it is hard seeing those you care about going doo-laly. When I was a premie I would feel sad that the whole world did not have kowledge but I always hoped that they would - at least those who surrendered at the lotus feet etc., but I doubt if some of the hard core premies will ever come down to earth - it can feel cushy in the protection of the Lord even if it means putting everyone and everything in second or lower place. Keep on truckin' y'all Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 18:26:29 (EST)
From: Iola Email: None To: oldtimer Subject: 'ere we go 'ere we go Message: What do you mean by doo-laly? I heard from excellent sources that this is supposed to be a 'special' program. Whatever! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 09:55:25 (EST)
From: oldtimer Email: None To: Iola Subject: 'ere we go 'ere we go Message: Hello Iola, ( what a nice name you have) 'doo-laly' is one way of putting surrendering the reigns of your life to something that may appear very attractive, important, uplifting, etc. etc. but is, in fact an illusion. I suppose we all have done it, and are still doing it, but these days I am trying not to be 'doo-laly' and to discover what is really going on in this world and in my life. Reality is not so bad once you start to get to know it, and until we do embark upon the journey of discovery we are wasting valuable time in cul-de-sacs and even though some of these cul-de-sacs are very nice places to be, the time spent in them delays us in reaching our 'real' destination. That's my view of things - for what it's worth but, all ex-premies,having learnt the lesson of not following, will hopefully have their own ideas. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 10:24:28 (EST)
From: Paul Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Radical Departures Message: My recent viewing of LOTU and reading of the Guru Papers had me running to get a copy of a book I read several years ago. It is entitled 'Radical Departures:Desparate Detours to Growing Up. It was written in 1984 by Saul Levine, a Toronto pychiatrist who studied 800 young people (and their families)who had joined a variety of cults/groups including: DLM, moonies, Hare Krishna, Children of God(remember the 'Happy Hookers in Christ'?) as well as radical political groups or therapeutic communities. The focus of his study is the 'joiner.' He chose only fully commited members who had been with the group at least 6 months. His findings suggest: 1. The particular group is not significant, but the similarities of the joiners. 'Radical departers are notable not only for the degree of their pain, but also for the fact that everything seems to hit them at once. Too much has been put off; the debris of stagnation has accumulated. They open the dam to their own development by the abrupt and violent breaking aw Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 11:08:55 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Paul Subject: Bivariate Analysis Message: Paul: I am skeptical of that sort of 'single theme' two-variable research. If you use a case study analysis it is very easy to find what you think you should find. It's quasi-empirical, so it looks convincing. Take Charles Murray's thesis about the IQ difference between blacks and whites. It's basically a bivariate analysis. He reasons that because 'mother's aptitude' explains the biggest chunk of the racial gap, and that it's correlated with most of the other potential explanatory variables, that it must be the whole story. If, however, you do a multivariate analysis you find that the combined effect of nurturing, socio-economic status, and a host of other variables have about three times the impact of 'mother's aptitude.' There is alot of questionable research out there. I did not find that premies were especially 'joiners,' or that they have a common set of characteristics. In fact, most research shows the opposite, that everyone is vulnerable. Something tells me that's more realistic, though less comforting. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 13, 1998 at 22:17:09 (EST)
From: Paul Email: None To: Paul Subject: Radical Departures Message: Unfortunately, 90% of my post was lost. To summerize, of the thousands of people approached by cults/groups, only a tiny number join. Levine found similarities among the joiners(primarily in their late teens and 20s) and that the predominate one was a psychological need to establish a self and separate from their parents. The group self served as an intermediary stage in their development. He states ' the voluntary nature of a radical departure is crucial to understanding the phenonmenon at all..the experience of a radical departure is not a passive one. The joiner actively seeks circumstances in which he will feel comfortable and a state of mind that will free him from conflict. He elicits and engages the group's protection from the moment that he lingers, catches an eye, makes a remark. Given the chance to divest himself of material goods, he does so gratefully. Offered the opportunity to abdicate responsibility, he is relieved. allowed to efface his personal self, he hastens to give it up. Presente Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 06:07:14 (EST)
From: Anon Email: None To: Paul Subject: Radical Departures Message: It's a shame your posts aren't getting through in their entirety. You were just getting going there. Describing my teenage experiences, lurking at the 'Palace of Peace' in London, very well. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 10:50:52 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Paul Subject: Posts not getting through Message: Hi Paul - There is a bug with some software/browser combination(s) that prevents posts from being printed in their entirety on the forum. Memphis Belle has the same problem. If you want to, you can e-mail Brian (brian@ex-premie.org) to try and figure out what the problem is. If you have the entire text of your post saved (probably not, right?) e-mail it to me and I will post it for you. I'd really like to read it. Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 10:52:36 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Paul Subject: Windows 3.1 Users Message: Paul and Memphis Belle: Your posts are getting clipped because you are using Windows 3.1 with IE 3.0 for that operating system. You need to upgrade your browser to the latest Windows 3.1 version of IE. Click here to download and version 3.03 of IE from Microsoft. BTW, I don't use Windows 3.1 and am only assuming that Microsoft has actually fixed the problem in the later versions. Let me know if it works. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 10:54:44 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Brian Subject: Windows 3.1 Users Message: BTW, I never had a problem with posts getting cut off when I was using Windows 3.1 and NETSCAPE 3.0. Just a suggestion - if you'd like to try that that option! Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 12:09:39 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Paul Subject: Radical Departures Message: Paul: This research sounds interesting. I've said before that my involvement in DLM was part of a re-socialization after the 60s debacle. But, strictly speaking that doesn't really conform to his thesis. I mean, I wasn't trying to break with my parents, but trying to re-join the society of which they were a part (perhaps with more independence than before). I'm still skeptical of his conclusions. If you look at a sub-population or sub-sample of society and find similarities then it is valid to pose a hypothesis based on that finding. i.e. the hypothesis is the statement about voluntary choice, and the motivations behind it. However, this is stated as a conclusion, which I don't think is valid. This is called 'selection bias.' If I find, for instance, that most of those who survived the holocaust by passing as Aryans have a common characteristic, such as blonde hair or close relationships with non-jews, then I can pose a hypothesis that these characteristics allowed them to survive. However, in this case I have no way of actually proving the hypothesis because I only have information about survivors. Having these characteristics might have emboldened people to make the attempt at 'passing' but that might have been a very risky strategy. Most of those people might have been unsuccessful, so the characteristics might have actually contributed to non-survival? In your case the characteristics might have actually led many people to avoid involvement in cults. In other words, the characteristics he poses as an explanation for involvement might actually better explain non-involvement. In that case what he has is a mess, or an intermediate step or stage in the analysis. He needs to study the whole population or a more representative sample. Of course, he may have done this, and that fact is getting clipped from your posts. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 13:31:41 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Radical Departures Message: Scot, your experience as a premie may have been different partly because you got involved at a later age that many others. I recall from your white page entry that you were in your later 20s. Isn't that correct? Actually, as somebody who got involved at age 19, with others around the same age, I think the conclusions Paul is quoting are 'right on.' Very descriptive of my own experience and of the premies I knew. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 13:47:12 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: JW Subject: Radical Departures Message: JW: Then your experience supports the hypothesis? I'm only concerned that it be stated as an hypothesis, not as a conclusion. Were these characteristics distributed differently within the premie population than in the population at large? He seems to be saying that premies are different, but I've seen no actual evidence for this conclusion yet. An alternative explanation. The Guru was a kid who naturally attracted younger followers. Most younger people in that era had the characteristics he regards as explanatory, but the relationship is actually spurious. Does he control for this by looking at groups with more mature leaders? Do all cults follow this pattern? I mean, he might be controlling for this but Paul's posts are getting clipped so I don't know what's actually going on with the study. However, selection bias and attribution of causality to spurious relationships is common in this literature. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 13:59:58 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Radical Departures Message: Scott, In your earlier post, you used your own experience as anecdotal support for, I guess, arguing against the conclusions Paul was quoting. I was just suggesting that you might have already been beyond the 'breaking away' period in your life when you got involved. The conclusions seemed very much in line with my own experience, however. As to the methodology used in the study, I really can't comment because I don't know enough about how it was done. I do plan on getting the book, however. Paul's references are the first I have heard of it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 14:14:26 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: JW Subject: Radical Departures Message: JW: Well, it is a very interesting hypothesis because it suggests that cult involvement is somewhat routine and for most people it plays a developmental role. Many cultures indulge a period in the lives of late-adoloscents that absolves them of social responsibility. That gives them the ability to 'drop out' of the culture and make an independent transition to adulthood. We have no such established tradition, so this may be one of many possible adaptations. My 'time of ashes' came earlier, so DLM played a different role for me. I also left within three years, though I didn't resolve things until twenty-odd years later. It's important to consider this hypothesis, and I'd like to see his arguments in more detail. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 09:55:06 (EST)
From: Paul Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Radical Departures Message: Sorry about the clipped messages. I am using 3.11 (at home) so I'll try downloading the suggested software. The 800 people that he studied came from a variety of groups, I think about a dozen different groups. They were primarily in their late teens/early 20s so that you may be correct in that motivation for older joiners could be different. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 10:42:07 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Paul Subject: Radical Departures Message: Paul: Did he have a control group of any kind? -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Jun 15, 1998 at 13:33:45 (EST)
From: Paul Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Radical Departures Message: Scott: Not that I could tell from the book. He really doesn't go into any detail regarding his research methodology. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 14, 1998 at 14:29:09 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Paul Subject: Radical Departures Message: I'm joining this discussion a bit late, but I think that Levine may have something here. I actively sought out this group in part because it offered something that was independent of my parents. There was some major conflict between myself and my parents (even though my parents were GREAT parents, I was still a fairly typical adolescent)and this looked like a way to escape this conflict. The premies I knew were WAY cooler than my parents..or so I thought at the time. (Boy, was I wrong!) I was not attracted to BM as much as I was to the premies, the lifestyle, the ideology, etc. I was not attracted to him because he was young. I was kind of suspect of that, being young myself and knowing that I was a bit full of s--t from time to time. I thought that a master would be older and wiser. But I think Scott is probably right that others may have been attracted for that reason. VP Had the strangest vacation in '98 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |