Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 12 | |
From: Jun 13, 1998 |
To: Jun 20, 1998 |
Page: 2 Of: 5 |
G's mom -:- I feel bad about this Iola :( -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 17:02:47 (EST) __PaulR -:- I feel bad about this Iola :( -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 17:30:26 (EST) ____Jim -:- Why we shouldn't joke -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 17:39:39 (EST) ______Stephen Harris -:- Why we shouldn't joke -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 19:22:59 (EST) ________Jim -:- Why we shouldn't joke -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 19:51:30 (EST) ________XXX -:- Why we shouldn't joke -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 03:59:10 (EST) ____Gunther's mom -:- thanks -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 17:42:03 (EST) ______PaulR -:- thanks -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 11:59:33 (EST) __Iola -:- I feel bad about this Iola :( -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 10:25:46 (EST) ____PaulR -:- Do what makes you happy. -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 12:14:39 (EST) G's mom -:- Duo post -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 14:53:55 (EST) __Sir David -:- Duo post -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 15:10:51 (EST) ____Scott T. -:- Duo post -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 15:58:40 (EST) ______G's mom -:- I stand corrected... -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 16:49:17 (EST) ________WPC Cyber Bot -:- I stand corrected... -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 04:19:59 (EST) Iola -:- Devotion -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 14:30:15 (EST) __Scott T. -:- Devotion -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 15:00:53 (EST) __Sir David -:- Devotion -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 15:00:56 (EST) ____VP -:- For Iola -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 18:04:52 (EST) __Anon -:- Devotion -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 06:10:08 (EST) ____premieJi -:- wanna see a feelthy peecture? -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 07:54:53 (EST) ______Jim -:- punchline? -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 10:04:52 (EST) ________Carol -:- Jim..Sooo glad you're back! -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 14:20:57 (EST) ________premieJi -:- punchline? -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 21:34:37 (EST) __________Jim -:- punchline? -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 21:47:50 (EST) ______Anon -:- wanna see a feelthy peecture? -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 16:15:11 (EST) ____Sir David -:- Keeping us in suspenders -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 08:23:28 (EST) ______Jean-Michel -:- Please tell me!! -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 09:41:31 (EST) ________Joy -:- Please tell me!! -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 12:52:48 (EST) __________Jean-Michel -:- Gossip -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 12:59:56 (EST) ____________Scott T. -:- Womanizing -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 13:13:10 (EST) __________Katie -:- Brian, I can't find it-to Joy -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 13:29:19 (EST) ____________SCott T. -:- premie.org -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 13:49:33 (EST) ______________Katie -:- premie.org -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 14:33:42 (EST) ________________Carol -:- off-topic -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 14:46:06 (EST) __________________Katie -:- off-topic -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 14:50:50 (EST) __________________Scott T. -:- off-topic -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 15:29:53 (EST) ____________________carol -:- off-topic,Scott -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 02:56:09 (EST) ____________VP -:- To Katie-two premies site -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 15:12:01 (EST) ____Carol -:- Devotion -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 14:05:34 (EST) __premieJi -:- to Iola -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 08:45:24 (EST) ____Jim -:- Get thee away, Satan!! -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 11:06:43 (EST) ______VP -:- Jim, Premies are slaves -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 15:21:36 (EST) ____Carol -:- to premieji -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 14:40:47 (EST) ____Rick -:- to premieJi -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 17:12:56 (EST) ______red heels -:- to premieJi -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 14:05:13 (EST) ____Mirabai -:- to Iola from Mirabai -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 01:52:06 (EST) Jean-Michel -:- Questionnaire / cults: Part1 -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 11:30:06 (EST) __Jean-Michel -:- Questionnaire / cults: Part2 -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 11:31:29 (EST) ____Iola -:- Questionnaire / cults: Part2 -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 14:05:03 (EST) ______Scott T. -:- Questionnaire / cults: Part2 -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 14:26:16 (EST) ____Jim -:- Questionnaire / cults: Part2 -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 01:34:11 (EST) ______Jean-Michel -:- Questionnaire / cults: Part2 -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 03:33:30 (EST) ________Scott T. -:- Questionnaire / cults: Part2 -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 11:42:34 (EST) premieJi -:- Something nice about M. -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 10:12:14 (EST) __Brian -:- Something nice about security -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 10:27:47 (EST) __Rick -:- Something nice about M. -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 10:35:53 (EST) __Paul -:- Something nice about M. -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 10:52:06 (EST) __Katie -:- Something nice about M. -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 10:59:56 (EST) __Scott T. -:- Something nice about M. -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 11:12:56 (EST) ____premieJi -:- to Scott -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 06:50:37 (EST) ______Jim -:- Hi, it's me again -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 13:33:33 (EST) ______red heels -:- to Scott -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 13:36:56 (EST) __Jean-Michel -:- Definitely security problem! -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 11:20:58 (EST) ____DUO -:- gotcha! -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 11:56:58 (EST) ______Iola -:- gotcha! -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 13:54:46 (EST) ________JW -:- gotcha! -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 14:14:20 (EST) __________eb to IOLA -:- What JW said was right. -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 14:40:44 (EST) ____________G's mom -:- I agree -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 17:26:00 (EST) ______________Katie -:- Please cheer up! -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 20:22:05 (EST) ________________Jim -:- Not so fast -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 20:39:31 (EST) __________________G's mom -:- other problems with jokes.... -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 00:00:39 (EST) ____Iola -:- Definitely security problem! -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 13:51:43 (EST) ______Jean-Michel -:- Security bothering HIM !!! -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 15:03:45 (EST) __JW -:- Something nice about M. -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 12:55:43 (EST) ____Stephen Harris -:- Something nice about M. -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 22:35:57 (EST) ____Jethro -:- Something nice about M. -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 23:02:20 (EST) ____Jethro -:- Something nice about M. -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 10:39:04 (EST) ____Jethro -:- Something nice about M. -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 11:18:30 (EST) ______Katie -:- Reasons for cutoff -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 11:28:54 (EST) __Sir David -:- Something nice about M. -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 13:14:11 (EST) __VP -:- The nicest thing about M. -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 16:57:26 (EST) ____Scott T. -:- The nicest thing about M. -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 12:44:51 (EST) ______VP -:- The nicest thing about M. -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 15:26:44 (EST) __red heels -:- Something nice about M. -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 13:30:35 (EST) xxx-rated -:- let's be honest -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 22:48:57 (EST) __must be seeing things... -:- let's be honest -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:01:41 (EST) __Scott T. -:- let's be honest -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:19:46 (EST) __JW -:- TO the Censorship Committee -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:21:08 (EST) ____red heels -:- TO the Censorship Committee -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:25:03 (EST) ______JW -:- TO the Censorship Committee -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:31:03 (EST) ______Scott T. -:- TO the Censorship Committee -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:39:04 (EST) ________JW -:- TO the Censorship Committee -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:41:58 (EST) __________Scott T. -:- Jim's deleted posts -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 00:24:58 (EST) ______Brian -:- Be a big girl -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 09:34:46 (EST) ________Robyn -:- Brian -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 15:38:49 (EST) __________Iola -:- Brian -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 15:43:51 (EST) ____________Brian -:- Gems -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 07:23:53 (EST) ______________Robyn -:- Gems -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 09:13:21 (EST) ______Scott T. -:- checked the cache -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 09:59:27 (EST) ________Scott T. -:- by the way -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 10:03:17 (EST) __Scott T. -:- let's hear it -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:25:01 (EST) ____JW -:- let's hear it -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:29:47 (EST) __Stephen Harris -:- let's be honest -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 00:42:31 (EST) __Katie -:- I didn't delete your post -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 00:46:17 (EST) ____Brian -:- Then it wasn't deleted -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 01:03:06 (EST) ____Judex -:- the lost post -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 02:35:58 (EST) __Jean-Michel -:- YOU be honest! -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 05:37:16 (EST) ____Jean-Michel -:- Browser's cache management -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 05:41:39 (EST) ______VP -:- where sanity lies -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 16:48:23 (EST) JW -:- Poetic Justice -Nike Off Topic -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 22:40:27 (EST) __RT -:- Poetic Topic -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 09:14:38 (EST) ____JW -:- Poetic Topic -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 13:07:31 (EST) ______VP -:- Poetic Topic -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 16:52:15 (EST) ________JW -:- Poetic Topic -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 16:57:24 (EST) __________VP -:- Hefty salary -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 18:18:56 (EST) __Katie -:- Nike confession -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 10:54:53 (EST) ____Scott T. -:- Nike confession -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 15:46:27 (EST) ______JW -:- Nike confession -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 15:51:57 (EST) ________Katie -:- Nike confession -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 16:23:10 (EST) ________Scott T. -:- Nike confession -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 16:25:39 (EST) ____RT -:- Shoes for Industry -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 22:24:58 (EST) ______Katie -:- Shoes for Industry -:- Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 22:57:29 (EST) ________RT -:- Shoes for Industry part 2 -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 12:44:22 (EST) ______Judex -:- Songs -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 04:37:51 (EST) ______Iola -:- Shoes for Industry -:- Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 12:28:00 (EST) Selena -:- I'm losing it -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 16:03:50 (EST) __Robyn -:- I'm losing it -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 16:16:11 (EST) ____Selena -:- I'm losing it -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 16:18:36 (EST) ______eb to Selena -:- I'm worried about you. -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 16:32:33 (EST) ________Gerry -:- Biting Selena -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 16:45:24 (EST) __________Scott T. -:- Biting Selena -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 17:08:06 (EST) ____________Gerry -:- Biting Scott -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 17:59:54 (EST) ______________Robyn -:- Biting Scott -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 18:08:44 (EST) ________________Scott T. -:- Biting Scott -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 19:49:20 (EST) __________________Anon -:- Biting my nails -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 20:44:24 (EST) ____________________Robyn -:- Biting my nails -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 21:11:35 (EST) ______________________Anon -:- Biting my nails -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 21:34:45 (EST) ________________________JW -:- Biting my nails -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:40:03 (EST) ________________________Robyn -:- I'm smiling! -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 11:54:57 (EST) __________________________Anon -:- I'm smiling! -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 19:36:34 (EST) __________________Gerry -:- Sticking around... -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 22:35:27 (EST) ____________________Katie -:- Sticking around... -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 00:41:35 (EST) ____________________Robyn -:- Sticking around... -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 11:56:49 (EST) ______________Judex -:- Bye Ger.... -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:51:36 (EST) ________________Stephen Harris -:- Bye Ger.... -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 14:47:14 (EST) ______Robyn -:- I'm losing it -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 17:57:51 (EST) __bb -:- Not a chance. -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 16:49:09 (EST) __larkin -:- Selena, Selena... -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 20:36:55 (EST) ____Robyn -:- Selena, Selena... -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 21:14:17 (EST) __carol -:- I'm losing it -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 22:10:43 (EST) ____Scott T. -:- WOW -:- Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 22:38:16 (EST) ______Robyn -:- WOW -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 12:00:07 (EST) __VP -:- Don't go , Selena -:- Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 16:34:13 (EST) |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 17:02:47 (EST)
From: G's mom Email: None To: Everyone Subject: I feel bad about this Iola :( Message: I feel really bad about scaring Iola. Iola if you are not too afraid to post again please let me know you are okay..... I really should have known better and it isn't funny to me at all that it scared you. I was pretty damn vulnerable myself when I first left. I am very ashamed that I hurt someone trying to be funny. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 17:30:26 (EST)
From: PaulR Email: None To: G's mom Subject: I feel bad about this Iola :( Message: You are not to blame. It was obviously a joke. The concern should be about Iola's fragile state of mind. By the way who are you. Are you the Guru's mother? Are you MataJi? WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 17:39:39 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: PaulR Subject: Why we shouldn't joke Message: Yes, well this is just one more example of how dangerous and ill-advised it is to joke with one another. Might I say 'inappropriate'? Yes, I think it's quite inappropriate for any such tomfoolery. One should aspire to sensitivity instead. You know, we DO make choices. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 19:22:59 (EST)
From: Stephen Harris Email: mulcyber@pacbell.net To: Jim Subject: Why we shouldn't joke Message: I do not agree with you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 19:51:30 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Stephen Harris Subject: Why we shouldn't joke Message: I do not agree with you. Sorry, I was just joking. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 03:59:10 (EST)
From: XXX Email: XXX To: Stephen Harris Subject: Why we shouldn't joke Message: X Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 17:42:03 (EST)
From: Gunther's mom Email: None To: PaulR Subject: thanks Message: I am very concerned about her fragile state of mind and wish I would have anticipated her response. I thought all would laugh...well maybe except PremieJi? I am an ex premie who posted here months ago. My teenage son saw me on the site and checked it out. I had never told him much finding it all too embarrassing. So he, my son, goes ahead and posts asking someone to please explain this all to him since his mom won't! He signed his name Guenther Gobblestien or something similar. So I thus became Guenther's mom..I shortened it to G's mom. Premies started posting trying to seduce my son to the dark side. But smart kid that he is he listened more to Jim and JW than to the premies. I took a long hiatus from the site because I just had another son. I found this all a bit to intense while pregnant and prefered to talk about the merits of breastfeeding etc. on the net. A few days ago I decided to post when I read something interesting...and it really does seem hard to pull myself away. Anyway, thanks for the kind words. G's mom Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 11:59:33 (EST)
From: PaulR Email: pgrobinson@hotmail.com To: Gunther's mom Subject: thanks Message: Dear G's Mom. Thanks for not responding to my idiotic post about you being 'Her Nibs.' It did have a pouint but not much of one. Thanks for telling me how you got you name. Of course you are still anonymous(e). I am a little nervous about revealing who I am here myself too, because frankly, I'm a little afraid of that one nutty premie. On the other hand it is about time that I practiced outing myself. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 10:25:46 (EST)
From: Iola Email: None To: G's mom Subject: I feel bad about this Iola :( Message: I realized that DUO wasn't contacting me as it's been defunct for about 17 years now, but I figured it was a furious premie. Please read HEY JOHN. You are very funny. I am just over-sensitive at the moment. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 12:14:39 (EST)
From: PaulR Email: pgrobinson@hotmail.com To: Iola Subject: Do what makes you happy. Message: Dear Iola, Thank you for posting again. You are welcome. I don't have anything else to add to the previous posts regards PaulR Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 14:53:55 (EST)
From: G's mom Email: None To: Iola Subject: Duo post Message: Iola, Please except my sincere apology for the DUO post. I did it. I thought it was clearly a joke. Iola, they would never say it the way I did it would be more subtle. That is why I asked for the VISA # and called myself DUO ( the old term for the security force) I am really sorry I was stupid to not realize those who experienced this all recently could not see it for the humor it was intended to be. :( Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 15:10:51 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: G's mom Subject: Duo post Message: Actually I thought it was quite funny. Not bad at all. You got the name wrong though. DUO was Divine United Organisation which was supposed to do good works. WPC was the World Peace Corps which was some ridiculous security organisation headed by Raja Ji (they had to give him something to do) and from what I remember had lots of stuck up premies in suits telling you where you could sit, stand or walk and they were also there to look out for bongos. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 15:58:40 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Duo post Message: David: WPC, that's right. JFK is probably rolling over in his grave over that misused acronym. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 16:49:17 (EST)
From: G's mom Email: None To: scott and david Subject: I stand corrected... Message: I guess I should be happy that I am forgetting some of this stuff! But it would have been funnier if I had posted as WPC post... Oh well... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 04:19:59 (EST)
From: WPC Cyber Bot Email: None To: G's mom Subject: I stand corrected... Message: No, it would not be funny to post as WPC. You are, hereby, advised against ever doing so. Please return to your seat and remember Holy Name. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 14:30:15 (EST)
From: Iola Email: None To: Red Heels/Premies Subject: Devotion Message: Dear Red Heels: I have tried. I have experienced the greatest times of my life around Guru Maharaj Ji. I loved him. I did want to worship the very ground touched by his precious lotus feet. I have had completely 'mind blowing' experiences. I have felt rushes of love when I am all alone. I have enjoyed the self-effacing, self-sacrificing trip. I have enjoyed trying to be the most humble all the while knowing that I had the Lord of the Universe backing me up. Everyone but the premies is ignorant. BUT ... something in me isn't happy, still. I had to face the bills, etc. And now, MJ knowledge-lite is a lot easier. Practice for one hour, go to two or three videos a week, send your monthly donation, and go to see him. The things that have really started my questions are: Why did MJ tell us not to read this stuff on the internet. I have never used the internet before last Tuesday, June 9, 1998 nor have I used e-mail. Why all the secrecy about MJs past? I was there. I remember. MJ has gone from being the Lord to the Master to a Meditation teacher. Why aren't we still telling people all this stuff. New people see him as the teacher. Why aren't they being let in on the secret? Why were we told not to call Knowledge a meditation? Why is there a script to introduce videos now? Premies are not supposed to even greet people in their own way. My friends are becoming increasingly frantic. THIS IS WHAT MJ WANTS. How dreadful if the video starts one minute late. I used to wonder what happened to all those other people. I have been around for 24 years. When I started reading here, I have to wonder why people who have been so close to him are saying he was a womanizer, a drunk. I don't know if this is true because I have not seen it (yes, it can be dismissed as a divine lyla). These people are just like me. They saw him as their Lord just like I have. Why are they saying these things. I would never make up stories about anyone--certainly not the Lord. Why have I been hysterical for the past week. One minute I am crying--the next laughing. I love MJ (I confess). You can't just focus on loving someone for 24 years and withdraw it that fast. I have a lot of questions and I am very upset about what I have read here. With this DUO comment below, I have decided not to post anymore. I have also decided not to let anyone else read this stuff. I am just going my own way. I AM STILL FULL OF DOUBT. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 15:00:53 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Iola Subject: Devotion Message: Iola: You are welcome here. The DUO post was just someone's idea of a joke. Not especially funny. I don't see premies, or ex-premies, as dangerous. To me this stuff has very little urgency, but I've been away for years and years. I can imagive how I'd have felt in 1982. At the time I was fairly upset about that letter, but fortunately just dived into Bucky Fuller's trip and got my undergrad degree. (I sort of got obsessed with geometry, of all things!) -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 15:00:56 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Iola Subject: Devotion Message: I think that DUO comment was just a joke, Iola. Nothing to worry about. Maharaji's organisation is introverted. It is contemplating its own navel. It is not a threat to any of the ex-premies. Maharaji is just another guy in the God business. He has only got power over a few people. Very small and almost insignificant. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 18:04:52 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Sir David Subject: For Iola Message: It's been an intense couple of days here. Go your own way if you want to, but please not because you are afraid. David is right about EV-except they are contemplating Maharaji's navel. If you leave out of fear, then BM still has power over you. I hope that you do what YOU want with your own life, be that posting here or not. VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 06:10:08 (EST)
From: Anon Email: None To: Iola Subject: Devotion Message: Dear Iola, Sounds like you're going through something similar to what I did a couple of years ago. I too printed out all the letters to show premie friends etc. and got a varied reaction to say the least. It is quite natural to want to see what the reaction of others is to all this information and discussion. In fact I received a private email which related some things about M which I resisted posting here. However I did show a premie friend. She said that if it were true she would immediately have nothing more to do with M, but that it must be complete lies. Trouble was I knew that the person who told me the info was absolutely trustworthy and furthermore many premies quite independently said the same. Of course she still is a very active premie. This incident just served to impress me even more that, premies adhere to a fragile belief system and, the more dependant they are on it the more they will turn a blind eye to those facts that threaten them. I still feel occasionally upset, emotionally, over my doubts and I am sure many many others feel the same. However I feel that I owe it to myself not to be like an ostrich and ignore all the things that I have seen. You are right there are a lot of questionable goings on and how can anyone in their right mind, and who has any integrity, ignore them? Questions are unanswered and I guess will remain so untill Maharaji addresses the genuine doubts of his confused lovers. It is obviously important not to kid ourselves over something like this but it is also essential to keep light-hearted and happy. I am lucky in that my depression about being disillusioned has been somewhat lifted by the timely arrival of two very adforable (I nearly wrote affordable!) ..adorable children, and a happy relationship. Finally I am sure that DUO post was indeed a joke. Don't let that bother you at all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 07:54:53 (EST)
From: premieJi Email: None To: Anon Subject: wanna see a feelthy peecture? Message: Anon, You said, In fact I received a private email which related some things about M which I resisted posting here. However I did show a premie friend. She said that if it were true she would immediately have nothing more to do with M, but that it must be complete lies. Trouble was I knew that the person who told me the info was absolutely trustworthy and furthermore many premies quite independently said the same. I'm afraid that this is a VERY LOW form of RUMOUR MONGERING. What you are really saying is that you have evidence which would be terribly damning of M. But of course since we don't know what it is no can dispute it. So why not post it here for all to see, since you are so sure its true. Don't forget to add your real name and address to the post. M. is not anonymous. If you want to hint and allude to things about him at least have the guts to say who you are. If you can't put up, then please have the decency to shut up. Anonymously yours, premieJi Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 10:04:52 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: premieJi Subject: punchline? Message: M. is not anonymous. If you want to hint and allude to things about him at least have the guts to say who you are. If you can't put up, then please have the decency to shut up. Anonymously yours, Hey, Premie Ji, What is this shit? A joke or something? You want Anon to reveal his identity to anonymous you? Now that's just being silly, isn't it? Tell me, why are YOU anonymous. Anon has his reasons. He's offered them before when asked. You can ask him again and I'm sure he'll tell you (and no, by the way, Robyn, I never 'outed' Anon). But what are yours? You're the one making an issue of anonymity here so come on, state your case. Until I hear otherwise, I can only speculate that you post anonymously for one or more of these reasons: 1) You're embarrassed about following a 70s cult leader, a virtual ignoramus whose understanding of life is no greater than that plants come from death and cows from their mommies. What if your boss knew? Or, what if your kids chanced upon this site -- somehow, somehow -- and learnt the TRUTH about the on-again-off-again Lord of the Universe? 2) You realize that the puffy ignoramus you've devoted your whole sorry life on has ordered you to NOT read anything on this site let alone contribute and, as you long ago relinquished any claim to your own mind, you know you have no option but to obey. BUT, you're not obeying. You're a BAD premie-ji, aren't you? Shame! Shame! Shame! Better keep your identity secret. From whom? Maharaji, who else? 3) Despite whatever else you say, you're riddled with doubt and aren't sure what you'll think tomorrow or the next day. In fact, you WANT Anon to post the worst info he's got on Maharaji. Not so you can prove its falsity but so you can consider it in the privacy of your own mind. You want out. That's why you're here. It's only a matter of time. 4) You see other people post anonymously. Well? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 14:20:57 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim..Sooo glad you're back! Message: To say what I can't or won't to premie-ji's who come ready to fight! To premie-Ji: You can read all the articles on the sight and the Forum entries to find out what's been said. Do your homework. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 21:34:37 (EST)
From: premieJi Email: None To: Jim Subject: punchline? Message: 5) None of the above I guess you couldn't count that far. Now, repeat after me, Jim 12345,12345.12345.12345..................................................... Maybe you could count while doing the situps you say your girlfriend suggests you do. Now I can only guess to why that is 1) you'll get tired and she won't have to put up with your kinky sex demands 2)she wants it to sound like something actually happens to impress the neighbours 3)she's hoping you'll have a heart attack 4)you'll get rid of some of that wind and won't fart in bed so much Well? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 21:47:50 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: premieJi Subject: punchline? Message: premieji, You are really hurting my feelings. What's with you premies anyway? Oh sorry! I forgot to answer your question. How rude and to think I've been out of the cult for all these years. So, your question was which, of the above choices, explains the great situp mystery. The answer, asshole, is that none of them do. She thinks it will be good for my stomach muscles. Hey, there you go. Now, your turn -- why do you post anonymously? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 16:15:11 (EST)
From: Anon Email: None To: premieJi Subject: wanna see a feelthy peecture? Message: My dear Premie ji. I have no intention of publically posting the details of what someone wrote to me in private. Even I acknowledge that it is innappropriate for me to broadcast certain rumours. Notwithstanding that I don't want to be sued for libel! The point I was making was that this girl was very shocked by something M supposedly did, and that it made me wonder what would happen if she found out that it was actually true. Whether it was true or not I of course cannot say for certain, moreover I personally was not particularly shocked by what I heard, but as I said, the person who wrote to me is a very honest person, so I am inclined to believe them. That's all. So there you are..just some harmless little naughty rumour which I am not about to spread. OK? A rumour isn't a rumour until you know what it is, is it? and I haven't said, so therefore I am not gulity of 'low rumour mongering' unless I elaborate in detail. And I'm not going to. What this someone wrote to me hardly amounts to 'damning evidence' by the way. We all know that there are rumours about Maharaji, surely you don't really want them all broadcast here do you?? And I notice you are anonymous too BTW. I don't think that it is such a shameful thing. However I take your point and am not keen to allude on these rumours further for some of the reasons you said. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 08:23:28 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Anon Subject: Keeping us in suspenders Message: Anon, you wrote: 'In fact I received a private email which related some things about M which I resisted posting here.' Please could you post it here. And if you don't post it here could you please email it to me and anyone else who might be interested. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 09:41:31 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: jmkahn@hol.fr To: Sir David Subject: Please tell me!! Message: Please send it to me too! I'll confront it with 'my' sources.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 12:52:48 (EST)
From: Joy Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com To: Jean-Michel Subject: Please tell me!! Message: Yes, me too! We want gossip! The more the better! The site's been lacking in personal 'dirt' on the BM lately. BTW, a premie friend of mine claims BM never said premies shouldn't go onto the Internet, that we're just making that up. Does anybody have any info on when/where he said that, and exactly what he said? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 12:59:56 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Joy Subject: Gossip Message: I've heard many gossips about some ex-lord womanizing .... 'Clinton-like' behavior syndrome! Same syndrome for some head people in his hierarchy I heard. Anybody can confirm this ? or is it only a wild rumor? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 13:13:10 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Womanizing Message: Jean-Michel, Anon, et al: I recently had a conversation with an ex in which she shared information about the 'Clinton-like' behavior of M. Her information was not firsthand, but was firsthand-once-removed and, according to her, quite reliable. It involved a tear-stained admission and request for help. The ex has chosen not to post on the forum for personal reasons. I doubt if the person who shared the information with her would post it, since she is still a premie and still... well, you know... 'one of the other women.' I have a tendency to believe, however, that there is something to this story. Premies will attribute that tendency to my anti-M stance, and to be sure third-hand information is legally 'hearsay,' if the allegations involve criminal behavior. In this case, however, the allegations involve merely immoral behavior, and I'm not offering it as proof, but perhaps to provoke people who are closer into sharing something. I recognize, also, that disproving such an allegation is difficult, and M should therefor be 'presumed innocent,' for the moment. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 13:29:19 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Joy Subject: Brian, I can't find it-to Joy Message: Hi Joy - Brian had posted on the old premie site (premie.org) under another e-mail address. He got an e-mail, and then a phone call from a premie named (I believe) David Coyne telling him that M didn't want premies to talk about Knowledge on the net anymore. This story used to be on our site, and probably still is, but I can't find it. Anyway, as I recall, when pressed, this guy said it was 'people around Maharaji' that had initiated this, not M himself (like, DOES HE EVER???). Also, Mili heard that Maharaji wanted the premie.org site taken off the net because it was too much of a private club, or something like that (maybe M wanted to read what Jim would post on premie.org). Since Mili was one of the webmasters of premie.org, I would bet that this story is true. They took the site down, and I haven't seen any premies putting another one back up. Joy, if your friend says it's all BS, why doesn't he/she start a forum for premies so they can talk about M without getting trashed all the time like they do on here? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 13:49:33 (EST)
From: SCott T. Email: None To: Katie Subject: premie.org Message: Katie: Actually, http://www.premie.org is up and running. However all it has are the numbers of offices and contact persons in various cities woldwide. Not a single word of satsang. Lovely picture of a sunset on the homepage though. Perhaps prophetic. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 14:33:42 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: SCott T. Subject: premie.org Message: OK, OK, Scott! I stand corrected. I meant the premie.org guestbook/forum, where premies could actually write stuff about how wonderful GMJ and Knowledge were. Katie Married a Ph.D. (not Scott) in 1996 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 14:46:06 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: Katie Subject: off-topic Message: Katie I just had to say I married a PHD in 1987! Congratulations! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 14:50:50 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Carol Subject: off-topic Message: Congratulations to you too, Carol! It's a tough job for us spouses, but it can be worth it at times :) Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 15:29:53 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Carol Subject: off-topic Message: Carol: Also 'not Scott,' I presume. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 02:56:09 (EST)
From: carol Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: off-topic,Scott Message: No, Bob. I had to get used to the name because when he met me,he gave me his card that said, Robert, so thought of him as a Robert for a few weeks before our first date! Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 15:12:01 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Katie Subject: To Katie-two premies site Message: Katie, When I was first trying to find Maharaji on the internet, I also entered the word 'premie' in the Yahoo search engine. I did come up with a site by two premies. Have you ever been to that site? Did anyone else ever find this? VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 14:05:34 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: Anon Subject: Devotion Message: 'Questions are unanswered and I guess will remain so untill Maharaji addresses the genuine doubts of his confused lovers.' I've always been uncomfortable with the premie-world use of 'confused'. It implies that you are 'mixed-up', 'offbase','out-of-synch', etc. when it is simply a healthy reaction to hypocrisy and the beginning of the end of a dissonant belief system. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 08:45:24 (EST)
From: premieJi Email: None To: Iola Subject: to Iola Message: Dear Iola, I'm glad to see that you have decided to not rush into anything. I was about to respond to some of your sources of questioning and noticed Anon's post which I had some objections to. To me there are simple answers to the things you mention above. I see that they are only an issue if we let them be. There are no hard and fast rules, only recommendations. M. does not say people CAN'T read or post on the net, or talk to people about Knowledge, or diverge from a suggested video intro, or start a bit late, whatever. If some premies become rigid about this, just tell them to go take a pill or something. M. is constantly saying that the purpose of Knowlege is to enjoy yourself. Remind them of that. Maybe that will work! Look, the point is to have a beautiful experience. All the other stuff is secondary, and if it gets in the way for you ignore it! ( I don't mean your responsiblities etc, just the crap that doesn't need to be bothered with) M. still makes it clear that this is a path of student, Knowledge and Master. I don't call him a meditation teacher and I don't know any premies who do. As for the past. well, I was around then too and had a wonderful time. He used to talk more about who he is then. Nowadays, he lets people find out for themselves by experiencing Knowledge. Since in my experience this is the only way to really know who he is, I think things are better now. Warm regards, premieJi Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 11:06:43 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: premieJi Subject: Get thee away, Satan!! Message: M. still makes it clear that this is a path of student, Knowledge and Master. I don't call him a meditation teacher and I don't know any premies who do. As for the past. well, I was around then too and had a wonderful time. He used to talk more about who he is then. Nowadays, he lets people find out for themselves by experiencing Knowledge. Since in my experience this is the only way to really know who he is, I think things are better now. Warm regards, premieJi PremieJi, This philosophy is worthless. Particulary unfortunate for you as you've given up so much for it. You close your eyes and get into a bit of a meditative state. You can't fool us, we've all been there. It might be nice at times but it's not 'light brighter than ten thousand suns', you're not 'realized', you're not 'God-conscious'. Nothing of the sort. You just use a couple of old Hindi techniques to quiet your mind a bit. Nice for you. Maybe I should start doing it again some day. Mind you my girlfriend says I should do situps every night before we go to bed and I also think I should run a bit. Hey, seen any good movies recently? The tragedy of your life, bud, is that you bought into and perpetuate the myth that stilling your mind a bit shows you the divine inner glory that is somehow tied into that fat little idiot's identity. Give me a break! That's just stupid. In fact, it's so stupid that you won't even say it anymore. HE won't even say it anymore. He won't even admit that he used to say it. It's that stupid. You do the word 'student' a great disservice here but then, as we all know, words don't mean anything. Really, what kind of student is never allowed to ask their teacher any questions? Tell us a bit about that, Premieji. Tell us about the guru that used to answer questions (see above - 1974 Q & A) but stopped. Is it that people just weren't 'getting it' or was it maybe that he couldn't helpt but reveal his gross ignorance about life? Do you think Maharaji LIKED answering that question about Millenium? Great program, was it? Forget about the more grandiose promises he'd made. Forget about the fact that the festival instantaneously made Maharaji a non-starter in the eyes of the world despite the fact that until then he'd done his best to get as much attention as possible, relentlessly beseeching anyone and everyone to take him seriously. The festival virtually bankrupted DLM. So tell me, do you think he liked lying like that? Tell us about the guru who once explained how we were born to be vegetarians ('This is my experience. I'm not lying about this.'). Or the one who explained that plants, unlike animals, are born from dead matter. Tell us all the reasons you can think of that the 'teacher' stopped talking WITH his 'students'. And then go look in the mirror and tell yourself the same shit. And then, go tell your kids if you have any. Get them to read that '74 Q & A and explain to THEM why Maharaji, in his wisdom, has stopped talking with his premies. Then go the the Bal Bhagwan Ji site and explain to the nice young accountant who runs it, who never even knew Maharaji existed, that HIS master is fake while yours is for real. Go ahead, explain it to him. Then go to the famileis of all the people whose lives were shattered -- or worse, you stupid fuck! -- and talk about how 'wonderful' things used to be. You want a few addresses? I can give them to you. I'm not talking about people who were simply warehoused in ashrams for years or whose marriages were sacrificed on the altar of helping the Lord of the Universe save the world. I'm talking about people who flipped out or even killed themselves in Maharaji's world. I can give you 5 names in Vancouver alone. Five, bud. FIVE! Then, go grovel at your guru's feet and watch a video of him saying nothing. Listen to the 'introducer' read the prepared script for introducing you to the video. Then go watch 'Sleeper' by Woody Allen, the scene with the jewish/robot tailors. (Why not? You deserve a bit of a break at this point). Then send Maharaji a check or, better yet, your credit card number. Then pray for him to just keep on going. What if he doesn't? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 15:21:36 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, Premies are slaves Message: Jim, In a video I just watched, BM makes it very clear that he is no teacher. He is a MASTER. The quote goes something like this: Teacher is the one who says,'that thing on the table is bread.' MASTER is the person who shows you how to grow the wheat, build the oven, cook the bread and to finally enjoy the bread. It goes on and on, but the point is, I agree with your assessment of premie usage of the word 'student'. When premies use the word student they are off base if M isn't a teacher. If he is a MASTER then they are SLAVES. VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 14:40:47 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: premieJi Subject: to premieji Message: Sorry, I missed the reference to the e-mail to Anon. You said, 'He used to talk more about who he is then. Nowadays, he lets people find out for themselves by experiencing Knowledge. Since in my experience this is the only way to really know who he is, I think things are better now.' Your experience is simply 'your experience' the same way an ex-premie who has consistently meditated has their experience. If we or they reach different conclusions about who Maharaji is, based on the experience of the meditation, then you must attribute the difference to something other than the meditation. I attribute it to your/our differences in our interpretation of our experience. It is highly influenced (in the premie world) by what M and the premies say. If you remove yourself from that world for awhile, you'll find you will make interpretations which are more guided by your inner values. For me those inner values, wired into me by my creator, are in conflict with the beliefs I held when I was as enmeshed as you must still be. But maybe you are really becoming independent (as you are meant to be)because you are reading this Forum. What other justification is there for you to be reading and posting here? Congratulations for your autonomy. M aways said, what we need is inside of us. He was right about that! But he is certainly not the only one who has shared that ancient wisdom! Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 17:12:56 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: premieJi Subject: to premieJi Message: Thank you, Oh Great One, for clarifying the dictates of the stumpy inarticulate Guru. It is a blessing that He has a schlub like you to explain what he really means. And all this time, I was just listening to the Big Bowel Movement Man himself; thinking he knew what he was talking about, when he described Hanuman choosing devotion over liberation. The ashrams were probably something His minions dreamt up, because Fat Boy just wanted us to enjoy ourselves. Enjoy ourselves indeed. I have to tell you, although I shouldn't, that you'd do so much more for Bowel Movement Man by keeping your mouth shut. Your reasoning is so unintelligent... go ahead, reread your post, and while you're doing it, keep in mind that someone with a decent IQ might be reading. Can you see that you make no sense, and that you make no case at all in countering the charges that BM operates a cult, and programs the minds of vulnerable innocent people, and that the inconsistencies cited on this Forum have been totally skirted by your objections. No, you can't see. You're just an idiot, and you're in absolutely the right place, following the dumb Guru. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 14:05:13 (EST)
From: red heels Email: None To: Rick Subject: to premieJi Message: never mind the brains farts here. you are posting just fine, premieJi. and with a clear intelligence. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 01:52:06 (EST)
From: Mirabai Email: golddiva@wire.net.au To: premieJi Subject: to Iola from Mirabai Message: Dear Iola, just thought I'd let you know that you are welcome to me-mail me if you want. I'm pretty open regarding appreciating what M has to offer and what he doesn't and generally don't have too many fixed opinions or conclusions. I've not been reading posts in here lately but just happened to read yours so I'm not sure what else you've been saying in general,but this is in response to your devotion thread. I don't consider myself a premie or an ex-premie but have been happy to continue practising k for over 13 years. I just don't fit too well into boxes. Although I know what it is like to feel devotion towards individuals and teachers who inspires one to aspire deeply within. best ragards Mirabai. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 11:30:06 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Questionnaire / cults: Part1 Message: I've received this today by email: ++++++++++++++++++++++ .....a few ex DLM/EV members might be interested in this. Adam Bogacki, Sydney. afb2@peg.apc.org ---- >From szimhart@fast.net Tue Jun 16 12:23:36 1998 Received: from post2.fast.net (post2.fast.net [198.69.204.22]) by pegasus.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14527 for Received: from xaverrsn (maxtnt03-phl-99.fast.net [206.245.156.3]) by post2.fast.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA09896; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:18:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3585D630.67C7@fast.net> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:19:28 -0400 From: Joe Reply-To: szimhart@fast.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paolini@mcn.net CC: wford@lesley.edu, terrific_taurus@eudoramail.com, sby@eskimo.com, loquasto@aol.com, sarka@erols.com, afb2@pegasus.com.au, tate21@ix.netcom.com, llacom@earthlink.net, s0220936@cc.ysu.edu, Mark.Lurtsema@aig.com, joelg@bga.com, Igasde@aracnet.comnet, hanaew@strato.net, draftech@ix.netcom.com, draftech@ix.netcom.com Subject: fwd questionnaire References: <3585AC84.8AC@crl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: R In case you are interested. Joe Janja Lalich wrote: > > Hello, > Sorry to bother you with a second request. This researcher in England > (who seems legit) is seeking former members of religious cults to fill > out a questionnaire. I am sending this to you either as someone with > that experience, or someone who might have contacts whom you could pass > this on to. So far he has gotten a low response, and understands the > difficulty of getting folks to fill out questionnaires. (it doesn't take > too much time). If you wish to remain anonymous, you could send it via > anonymous email or by regular mail. > I believe the more research we can support in this area, the better our > chances of increasing both our own and a general understanding of these > groups. Thank you. Janja > > JONATHAN BOHM > INVESTIGATIVE PSYCHOLOGY UNIT > UNIVERSITY OF LIVERPOOL > ELEANOR RATHBONE BUILDING > LIVERPOOL L69 7ZA > UNITED KINGDOM > 0151 794 2000 > email: jbohm@liverpool.ac.uk > > I am conducting a study into the rituals, behaviours and > practices of New Religious Movements or Cults. As you are > probably aware, some groups (e.g. Aum Shinrikyo, Order of > the Solar Temple etc.) have committed destructive acts. > The aim of this study is to discover in what ways the > practices and behaviours of these highly destructive groups > differ from other New Religious Movements. The possible > future benefit of this research is that it may help to > identify groups which are likewise potentially highly > destructive. It is vital that I collect detailed factual > information about cult practices from those that have > experienced them directly. Your contribution is, > therefore, of great value. > > I hope that you can spare some time to fill in the > questionnaire that appears below in the body of this e > mail. The questions are short and simple and the whole > questionnaire can be answered in an average of twenty > minutes or so. > > All the information that you provide in answering this > questionaire will be treated as ABSOLUTELY CONFIDENTIAL. > You are under no obligation to provide your name and > contact details though, if you want to, you can do so with > the complete assurance that your name will not be used in > connection with any publication that may come out of this > research, and that your identity will not be disclosed > under any circumstances. > > The questions that follow are divided up into sections > relating to various aspects of life in the group. The > questions can be answered quickly as most require a simple > response of either: > > YES, NO or DON'T KNOW. > > Though you are free to provide further details on any of > the question, some will ask you to provide further details: > > E.g. If YES, please specify: > > At the end of the questionnaire there will be an > opportunity for you to comment on any of the questions or > provide any additional information that has not been asked > for but which you feel might be of relevance and > significance. > > In replying to this questionnaire, you have 2 main options: > > 1 With most Email applications, by selecting the Reply > option, you should be able to write your responses directly > onto the E mail and return it to me. OR > > 2 Alternatively, you can Cut and Paste the entire E mail > message into your word processing package , write your > responses there and then Cut and Paste the completed > questionnaire into an E mail reply. > Please contact me if you experience any problems. > (jbohm@liverpool.ac.uk). > > I appreciate your interest, time and involvement in this > project. If you have any questions please do not hesitate > to contact me. Many thanks for your help. > > Yours sincerely > > Jonathan Bohm > > ________________________START OF > QUESTIONNAIRE________________________________ > > 1 What was the name(s) of the group that you were involved > with? > > 2 When did you first become involved? > > 3 When did you leave? > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > ABOUT THE GROUP'S MAIN LEADER > > 4 What was the name of the leader? > > 5 Did he/she claim: > > a) to be infallible? > > b) a special position of authority given by god or > exclusive revelations from god? > > c) to be a an incarnation of god or a reincarnation of an > historically significant figure? > > d) to be celibate while being sexually active? > > e) or demonstrate special powers such as levitation, the > ability to see into the future, read people's minds, see > auras, move objects without touching them etc ? > > If YES to the last question (5e), please specify: > > 6 Did he/she demand total obedience in all matters? > > 7 Did he/she maintain a lavish and extravagant lifestyle in > comparison to members? > > 8 Did he/she have a criminal record or a legacy of official > allegations against him/her? > > __________________________________________________________________________ > ABOUT THE BELIEFS OF THE GROUP > > 9 Which of the following did the group believe in? > (You may select more than one option) > > UFO's > > The afterlife > > Reincarnation > > Apocalyptic/ Doomsday/ > Armageddon scenarios > > Heaven and hell > > If you answered YES to a belief in Apocalyptic/ Doomsday/ > Armageddon scenarios please answer the following questions, > otherwise move to question 10. > > Was a special role ordained for your group at the end time? > > If YES, please specify: > > Were there prophetic signs of the end time? > > If YES, please specify: > > Did your group make any preparations for the end time? > > If YES, please specify: > > 10 Did your group denounce the teachings of all other > religious groups? > > 11 Were the beliefs of your group derived from existing, > mainstream religious doctrines or texts? > > 12 Was there a belief that the group was being persecuted > or being conspired against by powerful, external enemies? > > If YES, please specify: > > ___________________________________________________________________________ Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 11:31:29 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Questionnaire / cults: Part2 Message: ..... > SEXUAL AND MARITAL RELATIONSHIPS > > 13 Did the group control who could get married to whom? > > 14 Did the group control whether members could have a > sexual relationship, or who they could have a sexual > relationship with? > > If YES, please specify: > > 15 Did the group seek to separate married couples or > partners in existing sexual relationships? > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > CONTROL OVER INFORMATION > > 16 Was access to books,TV, radio or the newspapers > controlled or restricted in any way? > > If YES, please specify: > > 17 Were there any restrictions on which other members you > could talk to in the group? > > If YES, please specify: > > 18 Were there any special texts that new members were > denied access to? > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > THE EXTENT OF ISOLATION OF THE GROUP > > 19 Would you describe the Group's main location as > isolated/ geographically remote? > > 20 Were you expected to keep secret the group's location. > > 21 Were you given a new name or identity on joining the > group? > > 22 Were you expected or encouraged to cut ties with family > and friends who were not members of the group? > > 23 Were you ever expected or encouraged to conceal your > membership of the group from non members? > > 24 Were you allowed to communicate freely (by mail, phone > or in meetings) with friends, family and other non group > members > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > LIVING ARRANGEMENTS IN THE GROUP > > 25 Did the group control where you lived and/or who you > lived with? > > If YES, please specify: > > 26 Were you required to live communally? > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > CONTROL OVER HOW YOUR TIME WAS SPENT > > 27 Did the group control > > a) or restrict the number of hours of sleep you could have? > > If YES, please specify: > > b) how much free time you had? > > c) what work you did? > > 28 Did you have to make a major time commitment to > religious rituals such as prayer, chanting etc? > > If YES, please specify: > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > FINANCING THE GROUP > > 29 Were members expected to assign personal assets to the > group? > > 30 Were members expected to assign a fixed portion of their > earnings to the group? > > 31 Were you expected to work for the group? > > If YES, > > What was the nature of the work? > > How many hours a week did you work? > > How much pay did you receive? > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > CONTROL OVER APPEARANCE > > 32 Was any control exercised over what you could and > couldn't wear. > > If YES, please specify: > > 33 Was any control exercised over other aspects of personal > appearance (eg hair length/ whether beards could be worn > etc)? > > If YES, please specify: > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > YOUR DIET > > 34 Did the group restrict what you could and couldn't eat? > > If YES, > > In your opinion, was your diet calorifically adequate? > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > PUNISHMENT AND VIOLENCE > > 35 Could members of the group be physically punished for > doing something wrong? > > 36 Was there an endorsement of violence by or for the group > or its leaders? > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > CONTROL OVER PRIVATE LIFE/ MENTAL LIFE > > 37 Were you encouraged to report your private thoughts, > feelings and/or activities to others in the group? > > 38 Were you expected or required to ask permission from > others in the group to make major, personal decisions? > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > REPORTING ON FELLOW MEMBERS > > 39 Were you required or expected to report fellow members > for breaches of faith or any wrongdoing. > > If YES, please specify: > > 40 Did the group hold public sessions in which members were > publicly denounced, shamed or humiliated for doing > something wrong? > > If YES, please specify: > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > SINS AND CONFESSIONS > > 41 Were members required to privately confess sins > > 42 Were members required to publicly confess sins? > > If you answered YES to either question 40 or 41 > > Were you subsequently absolved of your sins or could the > group or its leader use your sins against you? > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > MANAGING DISSENT > > 43 Were group members freely allowed to express doubt or > dissent? > > 44 Was the expression of doubt/ dissent punished in any > way? > > If YES, please specify: > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > INEQUALITY OF GROUP MEMBERS > > 45 Did rich and/or powerful members get preferential > treatment? > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > POLITICAL POWER > > 46 Did the group ever actively pursue political power? > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > MEDICAL TREATMENT > > 47 Were members of the group forbidden in any way to seek > medical treatment? > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > COUNTERING PERCEIVED THREATS > > 48 Did the group litigate against those whom it regarded as > its enemies? > > 49 Did the group ever hire private detectives against those > who might seek to do it harm? > > 50 Did the group prepare defensive physical structures? > > 51 Did the group collect any weapons? > > 52 Were group members ever required to perform physical > drills or other forms of training in anticipating external > threat? > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > LEAVING THE GROUP > > 53 Were members ever physically prevented from leaving the > group? > > 54 Were there other factors that prevented members from > leaving or made it difficult for them to leave? > > If YES, please specify: > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > DECEPTION > > 55 Was deception, of any form, used in recruiting new > members? > > If YES, please specify: > > 56 Did the group have any 'front' identities or > organisations which it used to hide its true identity? > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > SOME DETAILS ABOUT YOU > Your Age: > > Sex: > > If you want to provide your name and contact details, you > can do so with the assurance that your name will not be > used in connection with any publication that may come out > of this research, and that your identity will not be > disclosed under any circumstances. > > Name: > Address: > > Daytime Tel: > Evening Tel: > Email address: > > If you want to receive an abstract of the research > findings, please indicate here: > > If you wish, please use the space below to comment in more > detail on any of the questions or provide any additional > information that has not been asked for but which you feel > might be of relevance and significance. THE SWIFT > COMPLETION AND RETURN OF THIS FORM WOULD BE GREATLY > APPRECIATED. THANKYOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELP. -- http://www.users.fast.net/~szimhart Madness in great ones must not unwatched go. [Hamlet: Act III, sc. ii, vs. 195] Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 14:05:03 (EST)
From: Iola Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Questionnaire / cults: Part2 Message: Did you see the DIVINE UNITED ORGANIZATION message below. Good grief! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 14:26:16 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Iola Subject: Questionnaire / cults: Part2 Message: Iola: Did you see the DIVINE UNITED ORGANIZATION message below. Good grief! I'm just guessing, but I think it was a joke. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 01:34:11 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Questionnaire / cults: Part2 Message: JM, Thanks for forwarding this. It's interesting reconsidering all the cult symptoms I once smugly thought inapplicable to DLM. Are you planning to fill this thing out? Should I? Do you want to compare notes? Hey, this looks like a lot of work. Are you gonna do it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 03:33:30 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jim Subject: Questionnaire / cults: Part2 Message: I've already filled it! I found it difficult to give a good answer to some of the questions, because m's attitude varies in different situations. Some of his behaviors apply to certain categories of persons, like for mahatmas/initiators/instructors some other behaviors apply to EV's organisors some other behaviors apply to 'regular' premies and he's different with aspirants. As I've been through most of these stages .... I think it would be helpful if some exes fill it, and mail it to that guy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 11:42:34 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Questionnaire / cults: Part2 Message: Jean-Michel: I filled it out as well, and had the same problem as you. It took me only about 15 minutes, and I explained the problem in the 'essay' section. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 10:12:14 (EST)
From: premieJi Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Something nice about M. Message: A few people in the thread below talked about censorship, and the lack of positive stories about M. here. Let me share a few thoughts. To me, the real censorship here is not so much the blocking or deleting of posts, but the wall of cynicism and sarcasm which inevitably meets any premie who dares to speak from their heart. I don't know if any of you remember, but can you recall how good it felt to speak from your heart, to an audience which was responsive? And similarly how it would be almost impossible to say anything to people who were hostile? Well it can be like that here. Premies who come here with open hearts soon have them trodden on. Maharaji has always spoken from his heart, and people heard and continue to hear with their hearts. Once that communication stops, it all looks strange to be sure. Then there are endless criticisms to be made. The heart does not need a notebook, does not care about his weight, his lifestyle, what he said 20 years ago or any of those things. Here is one personal story . About 4 years ago I spent many months at Amaroo. It was fun, joyfull in fact. I'd work all day with a bunch of people, clearing the land of weeds and rubbish. Weeks went blissfully by. Then we heard that M. was coming to stay for a while. Great. Then something strange happened. I was told that I had to leave the property and not be around because some security guy thought I was a risk. He rarely came to Amaroo so he had no idea of how much I'd been doing. The reasongiven was my association with some well known international groupies who were considered a bit risky.. Needless to say I was pissed about this. However I figured that being pissed was not a feeling I wanted so I let it go and didn't make the fuss I had initially thought of making. M. came and went and I didn't see him there. While cooling my heels at home with my international friends, they suggested I come back with them to an event in LA, at that time not generally known about. I decided to and some very interesting things happened. While in LA I went to M's place to help out. Not only did I get in, but M. himself was there to greet me personally. Each day of the three days I was there, he came to wherever I was, and that experience was indescribably beautifull. I was so filled with love and bliss I could hardly keep standing. Then a tour of USA was announced. My travel agent back in Oz sent me a Delta pass. This enabled me to fly anywhere as often as I liked in USA for 30 days. Cost $300 I got to all the 12 or so events, and you know what? By some extraordinary and varied circumstances , I got to sit very close to M. at every event, and needless to say felt like I was in heaven. M. had well and truly made up for the stupidity of the security guy. After those experiences there could be no doubting M's power, to both trigger incredible experiences within me, and perhaps even more convincing, to manifest miracles in the external world as well. This is only one story of many. The more you really get to see who M. is on the inside, the more amazing it gets guys. PremieJi Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 10:27:47 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: premieJi Subject: Something nice about security Message: First you get to work on his Australian property, and then you get to work on the grounds of his personal home. You are very blessed. I hope those pesky security guys had to pay full-fare to future programs. Serves them right for doing what Maharaji wanted them to do - protect his ass from suspicious premies who hang out with the wrong people. As for ex-premies being hostile - it's amazing how poorly people talk about Maharaji on the internet when he has expressed a preference that they NOT discuss him or Knowledge on the internet! I am also appalled at their complete lack of sensitivity to his wishes. First they devote years of their lives working on his property, and then then slam him as being a controlling, greedy fraud! Have they no heart?? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 10:35:53 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: premieJi Subject: Something nice about M. Message: Dear Birdbrain, I think you missed the point. The reason 'good stories' aren't posted here isn't because there isn't enough acceptance, it's because there really aren't any. Your story wasn't good, it was stupid. It was the same programmed thinking that premies repeatedly post here. What happened to you after being rejected in Amaroo wasn't a miracle. You have no real reason to believe it was, except that you want miracles, want to believe in miracles and make connections and interpretations that are notorious in cult thinking. People get great deals every day. Some people get free airline tickets and don't even have to pay the $300 you paid. Does that mean they have more of BM's grace than you? Does an innocent kid in a ghetto, who has nothing, have less of BM's grace than you? So what if BM graced you with his presence? He's got to be around somebody. Why was your self-absorbed rejection at Amaroo so damned important? Don't you know there are people all over the world who are really suffering, not creating selfish little hurts for themselves by following Gurus who twist your mind? It doesn't take half a brain to realize that the people you're addressing at this Forum don't find BM's presence to be a commodity; they find it to be a real drag. So what you're saying is, 'Here... let me tell you about something, that for you would be a real drag.' Well, yippie, Premie Ji, you're so blessed. Your story is really a good example of the selfish, self-absorbed focus that BM and his cult encourage. All the little BM has to do is walk up to you, and oh, how blessed you are! I'm sure that it had nothing to do with any event that happened in Amaroo, and in time, if you're lucky, you'll see that what was really going on, is that you were being punished for being so lame. I'm just one of many here, who have had similar false experiences like the one you mentioned, and drew weak and inaccurate conclusions. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 10:52:06 (EST)
From: Paul Email: None To: premieJi Subject: Something nice about M. Message: You have a brain as well as a heart. Only your critical thinking is in neutral, like most premies when it comes to M and K. Just 'following your heart' is your rationalization for not using reason. It allows you to continue your magical thinking regarding M., i.e. Rennie saying in LOTU video that the 'master suite' at the Astrodome was obviously named in unknown anticipation of M's presence there. PS What's an international groupie? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 10:59:56 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: premieJi Subject: Something nice about M. Message: Dear PremieJi - You wrote: To me, the real censorship here is not so much the blocking or deleting of posts, but the wall of cynicism and sarcasm which inevitably meets any premie who dares to speak from their heart. I have a few comments to make about this statement (politely, I hope). First, the name of this website is EX-PREMIE.ORG. That should give you some kind of idea of the feelings of the people who post on this forum, and their attitude towards Maharaji. This site does NOT claim to be impartial towards Maharaji! Please try and understand that. It is hard for me to understand why premies feel that they should be able to come here and be met with love and acceptance when they talk about how great Maharaji is. Almost all of the other people who post on here have experienced the opposite. I personally don't care if premies post on this page or not, but I can almost guarantee that, if they do post about their wonderful experiences of M and K, they will be met by a negative reaction. I am surprised that you would think otherwise. There used to be a website just for premies, where premies could talk about Maharaji and tell stories like the one you told above. Ex-premies were not allowed to post anything negative about Maharaji on this site. According to one of the premies that ran the premie website, Maharaji asked that the site be removed. Thus, Ex-Premie.org is now the ONLY place I know of where people can discuss Maharaji on the internet. I see no reason why premies cannot set up a forum where they can say nice things about Maharaji to their heart's content, but it hasn't happened. You also wrote: I don't know if any of you remember, but can you recall how good it felt to speak from your heart, to an audience which was responsive? And similarly how it would be almost impossible to say anything to people who were hostile? Well it can be like that here. Actually I have had the experience of speaking from my heart to a receptive audience on this very web site. It felt very good. I am sure that it would be impossible for me to speak from my heart on a premie web site without getting a hostile reaction. Look, I'm sorry if it hurts you and other premies that you get such a bad reaction on this site, but I have to wonder what else you would expect. That's just the way it is. And I also wonder why you or some other premie doesn't set up a pro-Maharaji site. Regards, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 11:12:56 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: premieJi Subject: Something nice about M. Message: Thanks for sharing that experience. Needless to say I'm a bit skeptical of the connections you make, but who cares? Are you willing to consider the possibility that this set of experiences had nothing to do with M? For instance, if David Koresh or Applewhite followers could relate similar coincidences, are you willing to consider that there might be another explanation than the one you surmise? -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 06:50:37 (EST)
From: premieJi Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: to Scott Message: Dear Scott, Thank you for a courteous response. As you can see if you read some of the other abusive responses to my initial post, its not likely that many premies would want to speak of deep and personal experiences here when these are the likely reactions I think also that it speaks volumes about the state of mind of responders who feel it necessary to write such abuse. As for your question whether these experiences have nothing to do with M. all I can say is that these experiences happened and continue to. When I am around him, I experience a definite awakening of consciousness, and as that awareness deepens, it becomes more and more obvious that M. is somehow the source of this. He stops being a short Indian man and becomes the physical focus of an all pervading energy. I'm talking about actual sensual experience here, not belief or metaphor. This idea that a lot of people here have gotten into, ie that the experience would be there anyway without M. is to me like saying that the taste of an icecream is in your tongue and maybe you don't need the icecream. Maybe I only think I taste icecream. Its an absurd argument to me, and could only be entertained by people who either have never experienced what its like to be transformed in M's presence, or have been away from it so long that the memory of it has been erased by time. I suspect that the regular M. experts here fit into one or two of those categories. As for coincidences, and other explanations, look, I'm a fairly practical guy. My profession is in science. There are no explanations for the things I've experienced . All the rules seem to get bent around M., even the physical ones sometimes. I'm aware that the world is full of people who have all sorts of experiences and believe all sorts of things. I find this interesting, but I know when I'm on a good thing. The world may be full of spiritual frauds, but that doesn't mean that some aren't genuine. I guess you like studying sociology and delving into all these different groups. teachers, etc. Its a bit like studying makes of cars, and asking the occupants about their experiences, and did they realise other people drove cars too.? Me, I'd prefer to be IN the car and experience for myself the driving pleasure. If others enjoy driving other cars, fine by me. This pleasure is never had by the guy who just likes to study the cars and their passengers. Its safe though. I've been driving in this car now for a long time and its incredibly reliable, and a load of fun! I've seen a lot of broken vehicles of other makes around, but if a better one comes along I'll check it out. So far nothing compares! Regards premieJi Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 13:33:33 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: premieJi Subject: Hi, it's me again Message: I've been driving in this car now for a long time and its incredibly reliable, and a load of fun! Okay, premieji, let's be polite. I'll politely say that your shameless effort to seduce Iola into not thinking for herself was -- how shall I say? Vile? Shameless? Unconscionable? I mean, here's a woman who's had decades of experience with Maharaji. She comes to a point where she has, at a minimum, legitimate, heartfelt questions. More than that, she's angry, partly because she's been stonewalled for years. So what do you offer her? Do you suggest for a moment that any of her questions or criticisms warrant answers? Hardly. You just give her the most ridiculous gloss and encourage her to rebury her head in the sand like you have. You know, premieji, one day you, too, might be fortunate enough to break free from this empty cult. Maybe not. Not everyone's as lucky as Michael Stipe to lose their religion before they die. You wouldn't be the first person to carry your illusion to the grave. But, you know, maybe by force or choice, Maharaji might actually fold his tent someday. Shit happens, huh? Anyway, should you ever be so fortunate to leave this cult, you will look back on this flair of 'premie maintenance' with shame. Now, was that polite or what? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 13:36:56 (EST)
From: red heels Email: red_heels@hotmail.com To: premieJi Subject: to Scott Message: well said, premieJi. sorry i didn't read your posts earlier. i saw the nickname and thought it was an ex-premies idea of a joke to use the nick, so didn't read anything you posted until today. someone else who knows from experience that it only gets better and better. beautiful. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 11:20:58 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: premieJi Subject: Definitely security problem! Message: Do you know of that famous incident with M Himself during the last event in Amaroo? I'm sure you do, like most of the premies! The Lord Himself will agree, he HAS problems with his OWN security! You can't imagine how much I laughed about it! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 11:56:58 (EST)
From: DUO Email: None To: security risk Subject: gotcha! Message: Apparently we were right in assessing you a security risk as you post on the internet despite Maharaji's instructions not to, what other rules will you obey only when it is convenient for you? We don't want the type of premies who read this stuff on the internet to be close to Him, nor does He. Just buy your videos and keep your distance. What is your visa # again? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 13:54:46 (EST)
From: Iola Email: None To: DUO Subject: gotcha! Message: I don't even want the videos--just my money back please. How come you are reading this stuff. Obviously, you don't follow MJs agya either! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 14:14:20 (EST)
From: JW Email: joger02@aol.com To: Iola Subject: gotcha! Message: Iola, I think whoever posted the 'DUO' message was joking, and it was given away by asking for the credit card number. Kind of funny, actually. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 14:40:44 (EST)
From: eb to IOLA Email: None To: IOLA Subject: What JW said was right. Message: In the spirit of mischief, I was going to add to DUO's post, pretending to be the Internet Security for Maharaji and say, 'And we know your URL; we have all your information. We know where you live. etc. etc.' But I decided not to because I remember that I used to be really paranoid when I first came here. Now I like the biblical adage: Speak the truth and fear no man (or woman, for that matter). eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 17:26:00 (EST)
From: G's mom Email: None To: eb Subject: I agree Message: I wish I had the foresight you do it was not worth the joke at all to see these posts :( Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 20:22:05 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: G's mom Subject: Please cheer up! Message: Dear G's mom - Please don't feel so bad. It was an innocent mistake, and I think will not have any harmful results. I knew it was a joke because DUO folded in 1979 or thereabouts (I had already left, thank goodnesss). BTW, I was trying to figure out who did it, but I never suspected YOU! Thanks for coming clean and confessing! Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 20:39:31 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: Not so fast Message: Katie, I don't think you should minimze what's happened here. An apology's one thing but really, is that enough? No, I too, was shocked to find that G-mom, of all people, could do something like this. Why she probably posted her little 'joke' with that newborn right there in the same room! I'm just sorry I didn't stop her. Now I'm feeling bad. Honestly, Katie, do you think there's anything I could have done? I mean, how did I let this happen? Oh, this is terrible! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 00:00:39 (EST)
From: G's mom Email: None To: Jim Subject: other problems with jokes.... Message: Jim, you have me laughing so hard I cannot breathe!!!!! How dare you!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 13:51:43 (EST)
From: Iola Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Definitely security problem! Message: I went to that program last September/97. MJ did say that security was bothering the premies, that they were the best behaved, etc. etc. What happened? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 15:03:45 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Iola Subject: Security bothering HIM !!! Message: I thought everyone knew! M was in his car, on the land, and had a driver. He wanted to access some place, and the security was blocking the way. The security asked for his pass, of course he didn't have any, and they didn't want to let him through ... Some heads were chopped off, as you can imagine! I'm still laughing .... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 12:55:43 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: premieJi Subject: Something nice about M. Message: premie ji: Thanks for proving old RH wrong when he said that no one can say anything 'positive' about BM on this site. But I guess, as you imply, what is 'positive' is a very subjective thing. Also, keep in mind that those of us who have had extremely negative experiences of the effects BM and his cult have had on our lives might get a little creeped out by you attribution to BM's grace and spiritual powers what others have concluded are coincidence and cult programming. I do have a couple of comments about what you said: Maharaji has always spoken from his heart, and people heard and continue to hear with their hearts. Assuming that 'speaking from the heart' actually means something, how on earth do you know this? Do you have some infused knowledge that allows you to detect when someone is 'speaking from the heart' as opposed to deceiving you? I would also suggest that you might be confusing people listening to BM 'with their hearts' with suspension of rational thought and judgement, also known as 'blind faith,' 'cognitive dissnonance' and 'programmed thinking.' I guess I would also add 'wishful thinking' to that list. In my experience, and through what I have learned since I left BM's cult, what was really is meant by 'listening with the heart' (aka NOT being in your MIND) when premies say it, is the summation of those things. I think this programmed, wishful, 'heart-thinking' is exemplified by this next statement of yours: The heart does not need a notebook, does not care about his weight, his lifestyle, what he said 20 years ago or any of those things. Well, of course not! ANYTHING that objectively disproves BM's status as the living god must immediately be discounted, overlooked, repressed or rationalized. Such is what cult programming is all about. Us exs tend to have highly devloped 'cult-thinking detectors' given what we have been through. I would suggest that your average thinking human being, especially one who might consider getting involved with BM would be VERY interested in those things. Given that BM and the premies are trying to cover them over, this website provides valuable information. Then you said: M. had well and truly made up for the stupidity of the security guy.After those experiences there could be no doubting M's power, to both trigger incredible experiences within me, and perhaps even more convincing, to manifest miracles in the external world as well. Well, here you are attributing 'grace' and 'miracles' to BM. When I was a premie this was a common thing premies said. But I understood that wasn't kosher in the premie kingdom these days. I DO hope that it is disclosed at aspirant introductory programs that premies believe BM regularly performs miracles 'in the external world' for his premies. One wonders how far that goes, though. I once asked a premie whether everything was by the grace of BM for premies and he said yes. When I asked if only premies had bowel movements by the grace of BM (no pun intended) and non-premies didn't, he got quite cross with me. JW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 22:35:57 (EST)
From: Stephen Harris Email: mulcyber@pacbell.net To: JW Subject: Something nice about M. Message: Let's get real about saying something nice about MJ. He appears to have had a typical marriage. He describes his wife as a ten-limbed, tiger-riding manifestation of Kali. I think he expresses his sentiments about his wife even more creatively than most American husbands. I wonder if he ever wonders if she married him for his money? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 23:02:20 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: cadbury@compuserve.com To: JW Subject: Something nice about M. Message: < can't imagine why that premie didn't quote to you one of maharaji's(once favourite) quotes from the bagavad gita: < JC Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 10:39:04 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: cadbury@compuserve.com To: JW Subject: Something nice about M. Message: Hi JW, My earlier post got tolchocked! At first I though it must have been the grace stopping me...but thought I'd try again anyway. < Can't imagine why the premie got cross, he should have quoted the bagavad Gita which says 'not one leaf moves without Me'...or something like that. Jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 11:18:30 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: cadbury@compuserve.com To: JW Subject: Something nice about M. Message: JW My quote got cut!!! here goes again! 'When I asked if only premies had bowel movements by the grace of BM (no pun intended) and non-premies didn't, he got quite cross with me.' A good premie would have quoted the Bagavad Gita '..not even a leaf fall without Me..' or something like that. jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 11:28:54 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Reasons for cutoff Message: Hi Jethro - Although I'm not a computer expert, I think you are possibly getting cut off because you are using the < and the > sign incorrectly. These are used in html codes (read 'Forum Help' for more info on how to use them). Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 13:14:11 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: premieJi Subject: Something nice about M. Message: Spending months weeding someone's land for no pay and then going to a different continent is beyond the capabilities of most people. Most of us lead ordinary lives with responsibilities to those close to us; our families etc. Some people have poor health and are quite unable to travel. Your explaination of how Maharaji helps people is of little use to the ordinary people I speak about, of which I am one. I do not hate Maharaji but he should not pretend to be the Lord when he is not. That will do nobody any good. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 16:57:26 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: premieJi Subject: The nicest thing about M. Message: Okay, everyone. Here's something nice about Maharaji. The suit that he had on in the video I saw last week was fucking gorgeous!! It was the best thing about him. VP Finally said 'fuck' on the forum '98 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 12:44:51 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: VP Subject: The nicest thing about M. Message: VP: I don't think that the fact that he wears Armani suits qualifies as an 'unambiguously selfless act.' I can't award you any points for that one. By the way, I recently bought a T-shirt for $95. It is gorgeous as well, and very therapeutic. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 15:26:44 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: The nicest thing about M. Message: Scott, I think you misunderstood that post completely. I never said anything about his buying the suit, did I? I was stating a fact. The suit was the nicest thing I saw about him...it was supposed to be a joke. Never mind. VP Used to drive a better car than Maharaji Did drive it myself, though Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 13:30:35 (EST)
From: red heels Email: None To: premieJi Subject: Something nice about M. Message: premieJi, thanks for your story! well, as you can see from the 'of interest to premies' thread, these folks have a premie laughing raucously! now, how can i get one of those $300 passes?!! :) glad to see another premie posting. :) :) :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 22:48:57 (EST)
From: xxx-rated Email: None To: Everyone Subject: let's be honest Message: I posted before as red heels, but since I got my post deleted earlier today am posting under another name so it won't get deleted so quickly. Note to the Maharaji haters who run this website and anyone else who may have recently stumbled onto this page and might appreciate being forewarned: you claim on the top of the website header that this website is 'anything and everything' about Maharaji, yet when I posted something good about him, it was outright deleted from the page, as if it never were there at all! anyone new logging on here, be forewarned: this site is only to prejudice people against Maharaji and is most definitely not a free speech website. Come one come all to this website only if you are looking for a lot of excuses to fling at others. This website is great for flinging blame. you will find on here complainers, blamers, haters, and the confused -- looking for the company which misery so loves. And remember: Don't waste your time if you have anything truly sincere and honest to say about Maharaji. Because if it hits the nail too squarely on the head -- poof! -- someone on the website committee delets it, just as soon as they get a chance. Hey, I thought that was what the ex's criticize Maharaji for! Voices muffled. Not allowed to say certain things. Isn't that a bit like the pot calling the kettle black? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:01:41 (EST)
From: must be seeing things... Email: None To: xxx-rated Subject: let's be honest Message: thats funny, i thought i just read your post, must be my imagination. must be seeing things. maybe too much pressure on my eyes? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:19:46 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: xxx-rated Subject: let's be honest Message: RH Negative: I count three posts from you in the active index. Only one is substancial. The other two are just short questions about abbreviations. Have you posted more? Did you save the copy? We used to have a lot of problems with things getting deleted at the Paradize site, but it hasn't happened since we moved here. I still type my posts in a word processor and then cut and paste to the content window. That way if something does get deleted it's easy to re-post it. I don't think Brian or anyone deleted your post on purpose. I don't even think Brian has been around much. (He has a regular job that he goes to from time to time.) You are awfully quick to jump to judgment. Have you always been that way? -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:21:08 (EST)
From: JW Email: Joger02@aol.com To: xxx-rated Subject: TO the Censorship Committee Message: Hey, you missed one!!!!! Seriously, I saw several of your 'red heels' posts and they were NOT deleted. You give new meaning to the word paranoid and delusional if that's what you think. I think you might just be in the slow reading group and having trouble with the computer buttons. Listen, here's a deal. If you can't get something posted, you can e-mail it to me and I will post it for you. Okay? What exactly did you say in the post that supposedly, mysteriously 'disappeared?' By the way, I have seen plenty of premies try to say good stuff about BM. Problem is, they usually do very little of that, and instead attack ex-premies and say something to the equivalent of what you said, above: This website is great for flinging blame. you will find on here complainers, blamers, haters, and the confused -- looking for the company which misery so loves. We have all heard variations of this theme. Got anything else to say? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:25:03 (EST)
From: red heels Email: None To: JW Subject: TO the Censorship Committee Message: It was posted. I saw it posted and I saw it on the page this afternoon. Came back, and it is gone. Subject line said: Maharaji Haters. It is gone. And so am I for awhile. This is behond a waste of time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:31:03 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: red heels Subject: TO the Censorship Committee Message: Go ahead, post it right now. What do you have to say? Or are you just bullshitting us? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:39:04 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: red heels Subject: TO the Censorship Committee Message: RH: You have three active posts and six in the inactive index. None have the subject field you mention. Is it possible than anyone else saw the post you mention? I don't recall it. Anyhow, there is no censorship committee. The concept is laughable under the circumstances. Only two people can delete posts, Katie and Brian. Katie doesn't hate Maharaji. I don't think she hates anyone. The only posts Brian has deleted were from Jim, and from another ex who started to play a 'name game.' I think he also deleted a few posts from a premie, Bruce I think, who did the same thing. Assuming someone else's name will get you deleted, but that's about it. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:41:58 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: TO the Censorship Committee Message: Just wondered. Why was one of Jim's posts deleted? Does he know this? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 00:24:58 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: JW Subject: Jim's deleted posts Message: Joe: As a joke he started to post under some other names, including Anon. It was quite inventive and started a real ruckus. However Katie got wise to it pretty quickly and deleted his posts. Katie probably recalls the details better than I. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 09:34:46 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: red heels Subject: Be a big girl Message: It was posted. I saw it posted and I saw it on the page this afternoon. Came back, and it is gone. Subject line said: Maharaji Haters. It is gone. And so am I for awhile. This is behond a waste of time. I wrote the forum software and don't guarantee that it's 100 percent bug-free. Without people reporting any problems to me, I have no way of tracking them down and fixing them. Since you've already taken the tantrum-train out of town, it will remain a mystery until something similar is reported by an adult. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 15:38:49 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Brian Subject: Brian Message: Dear Brian, God, man you make me laugh, tantrum-train out of town indeed! Love you, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 15:43:51 (EST)
From: Iola Email: None To: Brian Subject: Brian Message: Me too! You're a gem. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 07:23:53 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Iola Subject: Gems Message: All that joy expressed by the premies who do things out of love for Maharaji comes from somewhere. The great lie is that it comes from him. It doesn't. It comes from expressing love. Period. You're just as sparkly as anyone else, and that's to YOUR credit that you express love. And I got to wallow in some of that joy you give off. It was salve for the soul. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 09:13:21 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Brian Subject: Gems Message: Dear Brian, At the risk of offending another group of folks here: Jesus Christ Brian, that was beautifull wasn't it Iola! I'll have to read it again before I post this. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 09:59:27 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: red heels Subject: checked the cache Message: RH: I checked my browser cache using the software recommended by Jean-Michel. The only references to 'maharaji haters' or the text string 'hate' were in the current thread. I clear my cache occassionally, but haven't done so in a few days so think it probably should have been there (if the post was as recent as you say). I suggest that the subject line was not 'maharaji haters' and that the post you saw has gone 'below the fold' and is now in the inactive index. It may even be headed for the archives, which is the next stop. If that's the case then you owe the people at this site an apology, if you don't want us to just think you're an idiot. Everyone makes mistakes. Grownups acknowledge them. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 10:03:17 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: by the way Message: RH: Jean-Michel's software will also reveal the text phrase if it occurs on the main forum page in the subject field. It does not need to be in a post that was actually viewed. So my conclusion is that it was never there. However, if you find the page in your cache let me know and I'll change my tune. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:25:01 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: talkings@rocketmail.com To: xxx-rated Subject: let's hear it Message: RH: Personally I'd love to see you say something credible that's positive about Maharaji. I do not hate the guy. Just think he's a god-impersonator. JW said something positive about him recently. I was quite impressed. Would like to hear more. Why don't you email me, if you're afraid of being censored? -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:29:47 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: let's hear it Message: JW said something positive about him recently. I was quite impressed. Scott, how could you. This is a vicious lie! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 00:42:31 (EST)
From: Stephen Harris Email: mulcyber@pacbell.net To: xxx-rated Subject: let's be honest Message: I saw your posts in the 'inactive' folder along with mine and a lot of other people's. You still have all the qualifications needed to be a premie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 00:46:17 (EST)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: xxx-rated Subject: I didn't delete your post Message: Hey, red heels. I didn't delete your post. I haven't been on the forum all day, having been busy elsewhere. Scott was right in that he said that only Brian and I can delete posts. There is NO censorship committee. Posts do get deleted if you make threats in them, or if you use someone else's name or pseudonym. Also, harrassing and spamming posts are sometimes deleted. I don't care if you say good stuff about Maharaji on here. Lots of other people have. If you'd like to repost your statement, I'd be happy to read it. Or, as JW said, you can e-mail it to me and I will post it for you. Regards, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 01:03:06 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Katie Subject: Then it wasn't deleted Message: red heels, you are free to post here. If you are having problems with a particular browser or whatever, you can email me and tell me the symptoms. Nobody deleted your post. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 02:35:58 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: xxxx-rated Subject: the lost post Message: Dear xxxx-rated Is it possible you just didn't realise the posts go into 'inactive' after a certain time? Also you may have to use 'refresh' to read new posts - tho that doesn't sound like your problem. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 05:37:16 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: xxx-rated Subject: YOU be honest! Message: If you've seen the post at any time in the afternoon, the message, even though/if deleted on the Forum, is STILL in your browser's cache in your computer. There are several tools to find it: search for the string 'maharaji haters' in the cache, and you'll find your 'deleted' post back. Then email it to anybody, or REPOST it .... Then I'll believe you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 05:41:39 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Browser's cache management Message: I've been using an excellent tool to manage my browser's cache. you may find it at http://www.mwso.com microsoft cache explorer or netscape cache explorer excellent software. (can be used to recover 'deleted' posts!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 16:48:23 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Jean-Michel/Brian, etc Subject: where sanity lies Message: To All exs on this thread, This premie writes and ACCUSES this site of censorship. You guys all explain and try to help. Many offer suggestions. She still throws a fit and leaves. Is this more evidence of where sanity lies?? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 22:40:27 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Poetic Justice -Nike Off Topic Message: ON NIKE'S REFORMATION The reputation of the swoosh Had lately gotten rather louche If Nike factories abuse The workers making Nike shoes And people hear about those travails, It starts affecting sneaker sales. Protesters say, 'If you don't heed us, We'll do our dunking in Adidas.' So Nike's C.E.O., Phil Knight, To make the workers' burden light, Said Nike will reduce the squalor They work all day in for a dollar. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 09:14:38 (EST)
From: RT Email: hmmm To: JW Subject: Poetic Topic Message: Thanx for the warning. I've been meaning to get new sneaks. Saving money up for weeks. So, Nike I deletes! RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 13:07:31 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: RT Subject: Poetic Topic Message: RT: Out of all honesty, I didn't write that poem, it was written by Calvin Trillen. But good luck on finding sneakers not made by slave labor. I spent over an hour in a sporting goods store looking for shoes not made in Souteast Asia. Nike was out of the question anyway, but New Balance, until recently I think, was the last manufacturer still making shoes in the USA. I don't know if they still do. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 16:52:15 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: JW Subject: Poetic Topic Message: Know anything about Adidas? I just had to buy a pair of those due to my injuries. I have NEVER bought Nike. Never eaten at Cracker Barrell either. I love inside info on company policies. Anyone know any good books/magazines on this topic?? VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 16:57:24 (EST)
From: JW Email: joger02@aol.com To: VP Subject: Poetic Topic Message: Global Exchange puts out a great newsletter and also has a couple of stores in San Francisco that sell products from indigenous people. I can get the number for you, they're headquartered in SF too. They have been REALLY active on the Nike issue, as well as sweatshop issues in Central America and in the US. I'm not entirely sure, but I think Addidas are made in Asia, increasingly in China. Same thing with Reebok, but both of those companies have better working practices reputations than Nike. BTW -- did you know that last year, Phil Knight, the head of Nike, personallly made more money than ALL of the workers who made ALL of the shoes his company sells? Kind of makes you think, doesn't it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 18:18:56 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: JW Subject: Hefty salary Message: Yes, that does make me think. Kind of reminds me of the hefty salary of BM in contrast to that of premies doing service-ha! Another thing I hate to see is how much a celebrity like Michael Jordan is paid to endorse the product (in comparison to the salaries of the workers.) I'd like to get the global exchange number from you. If you think about it later you can email me. Thanks, VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 10:54:53 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: JW Subject: Nike confession Message: OK everyone - Here's my confession. I have three pairs of Nikes (sneakers are all I wear to work). I really don't want to throw them out (they are pretty used by now), but will you guys still let me in the doors of your houses if I don't? (I do have a pair of Keds that I will wear if I ever get to meet you, JW). A repentant capitalist (it's hard to be PC about everything!), Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 15:46:27 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Katie Subject: Nike confession Message: Katie: I too, own a pair of Nike running shoes. Don't plan to buy another however. I like the 'air' concept, because it gives better cushion as the nitrogen in the foam migrates out, which leaves behind a very hard outsole. I used to wear only Tigers (Asics), but those have always been made in Asia, by a Southeast Asian company. They use gel, instead of air, which doesn't compress. I wore Brooks' briefly (which also use gel), and Saucony is not a bad shoe. New Balance just deosn't cut it with me either. Like running with bricks on my feet. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 15:51:57 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Nike confession Message: I personally LOVE New Balance. I can't stand those overly soft shoes. Too mushy. Back when Addidas used to be made in Germany I went through about 10 pair of 'the webb.' But New Balance works fine. Also, just because shoes are made in Asia, doesn't mean the workers are necessarily victimized. For example, I read where Reebok makes shoes in Thailand and is very active in seeing that they are treated properly. Even Global Exchange, who HATES Nike, says Reebok is doing pretty well. Anyway, I do have a pair of Reebok's too, made in Thailand. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 16:23:10 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: JW Subject: Nike confession Message: I do believe that a lot of those companies have cleaned up their act. I am talking about a few years ago (but maybe we just didn't have good information?). I don't wear out shoes very fast. Anyway, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa... P.S. I met a woman who worked at one of the New Balance factories here and she said she would NEVER buy a pair of New Balance shoes because they were made so poorly. I bet most factory workers would say that about the particular item they make, though. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 16:25:39 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: JW Subject: Nike confession Message: Joe: I have knee and foot problems. The Nikes have not really resolved that, so as soon as I wear them through I'll probably try something else. I may go back to Asics, which have given me the best results so far. I ran in the 'Hood to Coast' one year, which is almost always won by the Nike 'Killer Bees.' The name of our team was the 'Killer Hes and She' (Because we were eleven guys and a girl). We came in 11th overall. Asics actually had a faster team that year, on paper, but they were not road racers. Nike creamed them. I think the only team that had ever beaten Nike up to that point was Stanford, and they only ran that one time. The Killer Bees got their name because Nike started out with an 'A' and a 'B' team. When the 'B' team won they just did away with the 'A' team altogether. The 'Hood to Coast' is a 200+ mile relay race with 12 runners. If you do the math it works out to about three 10K races apiece, spaced about 5 to 6 hours apart. Really nasty. It took us about 20 hours as I recall. I was crippled for weeks. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 22:24:58 (EST)
From: RT Email: broken To: Katie, K-K-K Katie.... Subject: Shoes for Industry Message: Hi Katie, sounds like you should shoot your old sneakers as outlaws - made not in USA: Billy the Ked. Message: The CARDS go to printer tommorrow. I went Wednesday but he noticed the paste up was not perfect. The design is as we discussed, but I have placed the url address UPSIDE down along the bottom edge, so one may stick it in a book, doorway, subway seat, etc. and have just that address show for quick recognition. Printer said 4-5 days. It's black ink on yellow card stock. Soon my email will work, and we will chat details. I can send but not receive. thx ! RT ps: I wrote another sat song, up tomorrow: The Downsize of the Holy Fame. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 18, 1998 at 22:57:29 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: RT Subject: Shoes for Industry Message: RT - am too broke to shoot my shoes right now. Plus I have a very dirty job (literally) so I doubt if the Nike guy would be proud of their looks at this point. I won't buy another pair, I promise!! Am eagerly awaiting cards. How will you get in touch with me if you can send but not receive? Is it possible for you to get a rocketmail account? (www.rocketmail.com) That is what several people on here have, and it works well. I hope the following doesn't insult you (really!). I tried for a long time to figure out what your writing style STRONGLY reminded me of, and guess what it is? The label on a Dr. Bronner's soap bottle! This is not meant to be a cut, but check one out sometime if you haven't recently. Take care, RT - communicate soon? (it's catching....) Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 12:44:22 (EST)
From: RT Email: mmm To: Katie, Judex, Iola Subject: Shoes for Industry part 2 Message: Katei: I use Dr. Bronners. Have for years. Peppermint. I am deeply upset. I am going back to soap on a rope! Email - network/password problem, fixed today. Will zap you in a week after cards are born. Judex - Please send song list if you wish, It will be utilized, assimilated by the Org! Iola: thanks for the note! Be Sharp, I think. RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 04:37:51 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: RT Subject: Songs Message: ps: I wrote another sat song, up tomorrow: The Downsize of the Holy Fame Dear RT I have quite a few tapes from the past few years, some are new songs and some are re-mastered songs from the 70's. (for example, Golden Way ). I just wondered if anyone would like a post with a list of these songs to jog memories (or not?) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 19, 1998 at 12:28:00 (EST)
From: Iola Email: None To: RT Subject: Shoes for Industry Message: I can hardly wait to sing your new song. You should contact Weird Al to see if he like to do a special edition (of course the target market is small, isn't it). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 16:03:50 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Everyone Subject: I'm losing it Message: Hi Just wanted to say sorry to Robyn for any pain I may have caused. Robyn you are not responsible. I have written an explanation to Katie that I didn't want to post here since I have acquired at least one enemy, ironically by speaking MY mind. The obvious truth is, I must need a break from this place or I wouldn't get so worked up. Carol, you are right about us trading places. It's poetic justice, don't you think? I'm glad we managed to work things out. Charles you don't know shit about me. Bite me. See you all after I have calmed down. I will most likely become involved again. Sorry about that to you who may not want me to return. After all speaking freely applies even to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 16:16:11 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Selena Subject: I'm losing it Message: Dear Selena, No hard feelings. I am so glad to read this post and I am crying again but as I've stated to many times now that is just an indication that there is something real here I need to address. I hope you don't have any enemies here, that is a VERY strong word much stronger than all those cusses. I hope it isn't me you feel is your enemy, no way. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 16:18:36 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Robyn Subject: I'm losing it Message: No Robyn. I was overreacting to Charles. If you get in touch with Katie and read the 2 emails I sent to day (especially the last one) I know you will totally understand. Please forgive me. I am not at all oK at the moment. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 16:32:33 (EST)
From: eb to Selena Email: None To: Selena Subject: I'm worried about you. Message: I care a lot about you and send you lots of love. If you want to email me, you can get my address from Robyn or Katie. eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 16:45:24 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Selena Subject: Biting Selena Message: How come none of the ladies ever ask me to bite them? Gerry --explored the tender pleasures of oral love in a DLM ashram. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 17:08:06 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Biting Selena Message: Gerry: I know your intent is to add some levity, but it might not be quite appropriate here. No offense. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 17:59:54 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Biting Scott Message: Scott, You're probably right. No offense taken. Well I think I've about blown my wad here, as I was a short timer is DLM and know nothing about it past 1973. I find I have really nothing to say and my career as a critic (apologies to Stephen Harris) was about as significant as my attempts at humor! Keep up the good work and I hope premies will continue to find benefit here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 18:08:44 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Gerry Subject: Biting Scott Message: Dear Gerry, Did this post mean you are leaving not to return? I hope not. God I think we all need to remember the feelings of caring that we surely all toward one another. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 19:49:20 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Biting Scott Message: Gerry: I second Robyn in hoping you don't intend to stop posting. I think your contributions are valuable. Anyone is capable of an indiscretion over this medium, including me. (Ask Peter.) -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 20:44:24 (EST)
From: Anon Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Biting my nails Message: I'm glued to all this! I have my hanky poised at my nose as I weep floods into the computer.(sniff) I have a large pile of sodden tissues building up at my feet! It's all too much..beats reading Barbara Cartland Romances any day. Selena please don't go! I know I haven't written to you much but I am a silent admirer..Really I promise. Please stay. I beg you.. Robyn, all is forgiven I'm sure! I love you tons too.. I thought you're getting cross was fun..and ..and.. Oh God! I'm not used to this emotion..I am going to be so embarrassed tomorrow. It's all my bloody fault. I am to blame..oh Woe! I'm definately coming back as an anus-less bat now.. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 21:11:35 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Anon Subject: Biting my nails Message: Anon, Were are you coming from here. Selena was on your side for god sake. I am sure I don't have the faintest clue how to take what you wrote to me. If it is truly in fun great but otherwise...%$&%$&$, you know the drill. I have a strong adversion to bats! Afraid they'll get all tangled up in my curly hair and panic and bite me. Maybe you were serious about the large pile of sodden tissues building up at my feet! Yeah, right. God knows that describes my day to a T. I liked you just fine but now I am begining to feel cautious around you and I don't like that feeling. I like to feel genuinesss from the people here. I certainly felt that in your journey entry. What is going on with you here, underneath all that macho bulls$#t? Really. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 21:34:45 (EST)
From: Anon Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Biting my nails Message: Robyn, I was being deadly serious. I've been glued to the conversations and have absolutely nothing but appreciation for both you and Selena. The bat bit was a reference to someone's posting that Mahatma Rajeswar said that if someone did something naughty against the wishes of Satguru they would reincarnate as an anus-less bat! I felt that my sick sense of humour had caused such widespread suffering here that my sum of my sins would now surely vouchsafe my return as a very quiet and humble bat. I am very envious of your collective abilities to be so openly emotional and thus am poised at my computer having what I consider to be an object lesson in opening up. As I said , I admire Americans generally for being much more open emotionally than the British, who can be almost too reserved. Sorry if I come across as overly facetious. Don't be wary of me, I am just a crayzee eengleesh peeg. These mad moods descend on me from time to time and I am powerless to resist. I think I shall be joining whatsis name in the padded cell if this goes on much longer! Nurse! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:40:03 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Anon Subject: Biting my nails Message: Gee, anon, you sure can step in it!! With every step you just go deeper. Ready for those 'tact lessons' now? Just kidding, but as Stevie Smith once said, in one of her poems, maybe you were not waving but drowning.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 11:54:57 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Anon Subject: I'm smiling! Message: Dear Anon, Had you noticed that I'd dropped the dear for a bit? I am so glad you were serious. It is all good, I had an emotional day but it pointed me in the direction to work on anger so it served a purpose for me. Consider yourself hugged you uptight Brit! :) Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 19:36:34 (EST)
From: Anon Email: None To: Robyn Subject: I'm smiling! Message: Dear Anon,Had you noticed that I'd dropped the dear for a bit? I am so glad you were serious. It is all good, I had an emotional day but it pointed me in the direction to work on anger so it served a purpose for me. Consider yourself hugged you uptight Brit! :) Robyn That was nice..I felt that! Through the computer and everything. Amazing!! Virtual Hugging really works! Thanks Robyn..Here's a hug from me too. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 22:35:27 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Scott T. and Robyn Subject: Sticking around... Message: ...lurking, though, mostly. I really don't have much to say right now. No biggie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 00:41:35 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Sticking around... Message: Hey Gerry, I am glad you are sticking around. You've been a big help to me via e-mail, and you've added a lot of needed humor to the site. (I'm still not sure if I agree with your idea of sweet-talk, but if it works for you...) See ya around. Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 11:56:49 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Gerry Subject: Sticking around... Message: Dear Gerry, Love you, glad your not gone. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 23:51:36 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Bye Ger.... Message: Gerry I have enjoyed your contributions. It has been great reading them and to me you have been very much a welcome part of the scene here. I Hope you turn up whenever you feel like it - if you do! Otherwise, best of everything. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 14:47:14 (EST)
From: Stephen Harris Email: mulcyber@pacbell.net To: Judex Subject: Bye Ger.... Message: I am not happy to hear about you leaving either. Maybe you oughta keep an eye on things...While the cat is away the mice will play. :-) Stephen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 17:57:51 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Selena Subject: I'm losing it Message: Dear Selena, I did just get your emails forwarded by Katie and have just sent you an email. Love, Robyn Are you still working a ton of hours. That can't help in stressful times as I well know. It was ALL I could do last Wed and Thur not to call into job 1 and quit. It was an overwhelming need that I ignored. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 16:49:09 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: Selena Subject: Not a chance. Message: I'll eventually hit the thread where someone starts bugging you. You have made some really great posts and I've grown fond of you. Glad to hear you will be back! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 20:36:55 (EST)
From: larkin Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Selena Subject: Selena, Selena... Message: Selena, Selena, Gal, you're on my mind Selena, Selena, Gal, you're on my mind When I thought no-one wuz listnin' You wuz mighty kind... (quick blast of early Dylan harp wail here...) Selena, Selena, Don't stay away too long Selena, Selena, Don't stay away too long To keep you here among us I 'specially wrote this song. xxx larkin Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 21:14:17 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: larkin Subject: Selena, Selena... Message: Dear larkin, What a nice thing. Nice things are very good not stupid and simple, Anon. I hope/think Selena will see it and it will warm her heart and she needs that now. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 22:10:43 (EST)
From: carol Email: None To: Selena Subject: I'm losing it Message: Selena, I don't know about poetic justice...its just about us being humans and having changing feelings. I've been on a roller coaster of sorts lately, sometimes up high and seeing clearly and sometimes very far down in a tunnel, and the changes have been coming fast. It's too interesting a ride to want to get off 'though, hope you'll keep riding along with the rest of us thrill seekers.(I can't help but think of a house of mirrors in relation to us, too!) Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Jun 16, 1998 at 22:38:16 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: carol Subject: WOW Message: Carol, Selena, Robyn, Anon, Gerry, et al: Things are really getting churned up on the forum recently aren't they. I'm almost afraid to say anything. In fact, I'm not going to. Just want everyone to know that I find none of you distasteful or objectionable. I'd say we're under some sort of psychic attack, except that I don't believe in that shit. Does everyone feel OK? That's nice. Don't fight. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 12:00:07 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs To: Scott T. Subject: WOW Message: Dear Scott, Thanks, even if you don't have anything to say it is still nice to know you've been following things and feel for us. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 16:34:13 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Selena Subject: Don't go , Selena Message: Unless you really have to or want to. I meant, who am I to tell you what to do? But don't go, really. Everyone loves you here. Your lipstick tapes, high heels and all that, too. If you go, I HOPE YOU COME BACK! VP Your partner in crime for 6 months Return to Index -:- Top of Index |