Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 14 | |
From: Jun 23, 1998 |
To: Jun 30, 1998 |
Page: 3 Of: 5 |
Selena -:- an old friend -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 19:09:37 (EST) __red heart -:- the magic is true -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 01:17:38 (EST) ____Gerry -:- the magic is true -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 01:29:19 (EST) ______Sir David -:- the magic is true -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 03:44:27 (EST) ______Selena -:- All magic is true -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 12:22:53 (EST) ________Gerry -:- This and that -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 12:36:15 (EST) __________Rick -:- This and that -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 12:38:43 (EST) ____________Gerry -:- Cats -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 13:02:09 (EST) ______________Selena -:- Cats -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 13:25:05 (EST) ________________Robyn -:- Cats -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 13:35:39 (EST) ______________Rick -:- Cats -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 14:31:44 (EST) ________________Katie -:- Cats off topic -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 15:55:20 (EST) __________________Robyn -:- Cats off topic -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 16:32:50 (EST) ____________________Katie -:- Cats off topic -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 16:51:57 (EST) ______________________Robyn -:- Cats off topic -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 17:15:07 (EST) __________________Gerry -:- Cats off topic -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 16:59:35 (EST) ____________________Katie -:- Cats off topic -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 17:23:19 (EST) ______________________Robyn -:- Cats off topic -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 22:44:18 (EST) ________________________Katie -:- Pigs off topic -:- Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 19:35:29 (EST) __________________Rick -:- Cats off topic -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 19:22:37 (EST) ____________________Katie -:- Cats off topic -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 19:36:38 (EST) ______________Joy -:- Cat Names -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 23:39:27 (EST) ______________Peter -:- Cats -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 23:45:06 (EST) ____JW -:- the magic is true -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 01:39:02 (EST) ____Sir David -:- And that's that, Red Heart -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 04:31:11 (EST) ______red heart -:- And that's that, Red Heart -:- Sun, Jun 28, 1998 at 02:18:54 (EST) __JW -:- an old friend -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 01:47:56 (EST) ____red heart -:- dancing topless -:- Sun, Jun 28, 1998 at 02:25:12 (EST) ______Robyn -:- dancing topless -:- Sun, Jun 28, 1998 at 09:39:10 (EST) x -:- IMHO Jim -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 18:43:46 (EST) __G's mom -:- agree with x (nt) -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 18:58:57 (EST) ____Jim -:- Thanks -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 19:06:36 (EST) ______Scott T. -:- Thanks -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 23:44:42 (EST) ________Jim -:- Thanks -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 00:03:00 (EST) __________Bill Cooper -:- Thanks -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 03:50:45 (EST) Jim -:- Bob Kirby -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 18:28:55 (EST) __Malibu Mole -:- Bob Kirby -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 19:58:01 (EST) ____Selena -:- Bob Kirby -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:07:08 (EST) ____Joy -:- Bob Kirby -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:54:42 (EST) ______Malibu Mole -:- Pranam Bai -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 03:38:46 (EST) ________Joy -:- Pranam Bai -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 13:05:47 (EST) ________JW -:- Pranam Bai -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 14:45:30 (EST) __red heart -:- Bob Kirby -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 00:36:14 (EST) Gail -:- The old days and Jim -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:16:05 (EST) __John -:- memories in the 'shram -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 17:37:02 (EST) ____JW -:- Randy Berringer -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 18:06:00 (EST) ______G's mom -:- Randy Berringer -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 19:01:26 (EST) Jim -:- Judex - burn your library! -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:09:40 (EST) __Sir David -:- Judex - burn your library! -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 21:03:42 (EST) ____Scott T. -:- Judex - burn your library! -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 23:35:36 (EST) ______Sir David -:- Hate is understood by love -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 03:17:16 (EST) o. -:- and who will fill -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 14:51:02 (EST) __NDYW -:- Story of O -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 14:57:12 (EST) ____bill burke -:- O K -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:29:21 (EST) ______NDYW -:- O K -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:49:11 (EST) ______VP -:- bb-The Big O -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 21:46:16 (EST) __Jethro -:- and who will fill -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:37:32 (EST) ____Sir David -:- Thanks Jethro -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:46:39 (EST) __Gail -:- and who will fill -:- Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 19:19:00 (EST) Jim -:- To Judex (and Scott) -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:34:33 (EST) __John -:- IMHO -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:06:23 (EST) ____NDYW -:- IMHO -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:19:30 (EST) ______JW -:- IMHO -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:00:08 (EST) ________Jim -:- IMHO -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:33:38 (EST) ________Robyn -:- IMHO -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:37:46 (EST) __________Jim -:- IMHO -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:46:51 (EST) ____________Robyn -:- IMHO -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:58:03 (EST) ______________Jim -:- IMHO -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 14:02:30 (EST) ________________G's mom -:- feeding the bears.... -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:13:22 (EST) ________________Robyn -:- IMHO -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:17:52 (EST) ________Rick -:- IMHO -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:18:55 (EST) __________Rick -:- What's Wrong With Jim -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:35:03 (EST) ____________Katie -:- Unga-hitz -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:05:36 (EST) ______________Jim -:- He's making it up! -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:20:28 (EST) ________________Shicksabelle -:- Then it oughtta be! -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:27:41 (EST) __________________Rick -:- It's a real word -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:49:09 (EST) ____________________Shicksabelle -:- Thanks, Rick. -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 21:11:28 (EST) ____Scott T. -:- IMHO -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:19:29 (EST) __Scott T. -:- To Judex (and Scott) -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:40:19 (EST) ____Jim -:- Pill time, Scott -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:34:17 (EST) ______Scott T. -:- Pill time, Scott -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 17:00:34 (EST) __Scott T. -:- To Judex (and Scott) -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:10:55 (EST) ____Jim -:- Oh yeah?? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:19:03 (EST) ______Scott T. -:- Oh yeah?? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:30:04 (EST) __Carol -:- New Age!!Jim.... -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:22:51 (EST) ____Jim -:- New Age!!Jim.... -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:29:43 (EST) ______Jim -:- and also... -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:36:25 (EST) ________Scott T. -:- and also... -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:45:24 (EST) __________Jim -:- and also... -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:47:43 (EST) ______Scott T. -:- New Age!!Jim.... -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:38:35 (EST) ________Jim -:- New Age!!Jim.... -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:46:57 (EST) ____Stephen Harris -:- New Age!!Jim.... -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 19:31:15 (EST) ______Carol -:- New Age!!Jim....and Stephen -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 00:24:58 (EST) ________Robyn -:- New Age!!Jim....and Stephen -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 10:16:33 (EST) __________Stephen Harris -:- New Age!!Channels-long -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 18:28:10 (EST) ____________Stephen Harris -:- New Age!!Channels-long -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 18:37:47 (EST) ______________Robyn -:- New Age!!Channels-long -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 22:34:57 (EST) ________________Stephen Harris -:- New Age!!Channels-long -:- Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 01:24:56 (EST) Judex -:- Dumping? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 10:01:03 (EST) __Katie -:- Dumping? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 10:15:16 (EST) ____Jean-Michel -:- about therapy ... -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:27:21 (EST) ______Judex -:- about therapy ... -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:29:36 (EST) ________Jean-Michel -:- Who's first? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:34:02 (EST) __________Robyn -:- Who's first? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:51:25 (EST) ____________Judex -:- Who's first? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:15:46 (EST) ______Robyn -:- about therapy ... -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:57:21 (EST) ________Jean-Michel -:- about therapy & Drs -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:54:25 (EST) __NDYW -:- Dumping? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 10:51:48 (EST) ____Katie -:- Dumping? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:01:57 (EST) ______Stephen Harris -:- Dumping? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 17:08:21 (EST) ____Judex -:- Dumping? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:14:28 (EST) ______Jim -:- Dumping? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:52:00 (EST) ______Robyn -:- Dumping? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:00:50 (EST) ______NDYW -:- Dumping? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:07:28 (EST) ________Katie -:- Shapeshifting -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:15:08 (EST) __________NDBB -:- Shapeshifting -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:33:24 (EST) ____________Katie -:- Shapeshifting -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:38:21 (EST) ______________Katie -:- to Indie -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:56:44 (EST) ______________Indie -:- The forum rules -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:16:56 (EST) ________________Katie -:- The forum rules! -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:29:08 (EST) __________________The many faces of an Ex -:- The forum rules! -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:46:43 (EST) ____________John -:- Shapeshifting, the King -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:55:11 (EST) ______________Jim -:- Shapeshifting, the King -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:39:30 (EST) ________________Katie -:- Shapeshifting, the King -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:42:40 (EST) ________________NYPD -:- Shapeshifting, the King -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 14:00:26 (EST) __________________Jim -:- Shapeshifting, the King -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 14:04:34 (EST) ____________________David Helfgott -:- Shapeshifting -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 14:43:35 (EST) ______________________Carol -:- Shapeshifting -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 00:43:10 (EST) __________________Robyn -:- You copper you -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 13:29:22 (EST) ______NDYW/GERRY -:- Dumping? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:45:22 (EST) ________Katie -:- INDIE GERRY!!! -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 21:03:08 (EST) __________Carol -:- INDIE GERRY!!! -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 00:45:06 (EST) __________Peter -:- INDIE JESTIN'!!! -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 23:50:03 (EST) ________Indie -:- Dumping? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 21:55:48 (EST) __________Carol -:- That, I knew! no text -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 00:46:32 (EST) ________Judex -:- to Gerry -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 06:43:54 (EST) __________Jim -:- CD Communication Project -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 11:30:17 (EST) ____________bftb -:- CD Communication Project -:- Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 11:57:01 (EST) __Jim -:- Grumping? -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:07:44 (EST) __Carol -:- Dumping? Not at all... -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:18:40 (EST) ____seymour -:- Dumping? Not at all... -:- Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 05:16:22 (EST) Becky -:- Tax evasion -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 08:44:56 (EST) __PremieJi -:- Tax evasion -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 09:49:53 (EST) ____Becky -:- Tax evasion -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:30:39 (EST) ______Jim -:- Tax evasion -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:50:20 (EST) __Katie -:- Tax evasion -:- Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 10:35:41 (EST) |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 19:09:37 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Everyone Subject: an old friend Message: I had lunch with an old friend yesterday. He is about 35 now. WAY back in the 70's when we were all flocking to Miami all the time, he was the son of a premie. His father satsanged him to death and he went to satsang every night with the dad. He must have been about 11 or 12. Lo and behold he became an aspirant. VP and x will relate. He was the youngest aspirant our community had. I was close to him in those years. He even went to Miami with me in a crowded van. We have been out of touch for quite some time. It was amazing to talk to him about those years and hear his perspectives. How he saw the premies, how badly he wanted knowledge. He felt discriminated against, at the time, because of his age. They kept telling him he had to wait. The thing he said that impressed me the most was this: 'How can anyone still be involved who was involved those days, when NONE of the stuff M claimed has come true, and nothing has been done that he said would be done' yippeee!! Another voice of sanity. He reminds me of x, from the posts I have read. Selena the RabidDogJi - slowing coming back June 26 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 01:17:38 (EST)
From: red heart Email: None To: Selena Subject: the magic is true Message: what he says comes true inside of my heart every day. only those who approach with real humility, sincerity, honesty and thirst can experience the highest bliss within. and only with the help of the Master. this has been my experience, and this i know to be true. a person who tries to push another person to follow the Master is cheating that person. extra obstacles are added that will make it harder for the person to come to the Master of free choice. this Knowledge is only for those who are free. it is not for everyone. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 01:29:19 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: red heart Subject: the magic is true Message: Heel, this is so, I don't know, words fail me right now. 'K is not for everyone'. What a falsely superior attitude this is. Special people, special knowledge, special guru. What a bunch of crap It is possible to experience bliss without your master. Bliss is nice, it's a great feeling, but it's only a physiological storm in your brain. Once you know how to produce it, you can repeat the experience, almost at will. Let me give you an example. I went to a Physical therapist office the other morning to do some rehab on my bum knee. The PT person there said 'how ya feelin' today' I said ' I' m blissful' just as an inside joke with myself. Guess what? I was overwhelmed with a state of bliss. Was this the master's grace? Correct answer is no. So get off it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 03:44:27 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Gerry Subject: the magic is true Message: I can relate to that. The other evening I was lying on my daughters' bedroom and just casually chatting to one of them and I suddenly came over all blissed out like. I was lying on the bed and I just felt bliss in every part of me. Now I hadn't even done any meditation or anything so what was it. Perhaps my children are the next perfect master(s) or perfect mistresses (since they're girls). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 12:22:53 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Gerry Subject: All magic is true Message: Hi Gerry! I have been meaning to tell you, I wasn't offended by your response to my bite me post way back when. I thought it was funny. Ever wonder why they refer to 'the' magic as if there is only one kind? what about just magic is true, or all magic is true or magic is or isn't or whatever? I love that particular ism of the premiegees. The 'the' I mean. Or this. this life this knowledge this body this world Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 12:36:15 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Selena Subject: This and that Message: Never in a million years did I imagine you to be offended. re: this and that: more goofy premiespeak, just parroting the BM, I suppose. (typing with one hand as the other supports this tasmanian devil, I mean hairless kitten, who just arrived to disrupt my life. Score: Kitten 1 Flower vase 0 Need help naming the little dickens. Any suggestions, anyone? (good- he's finally falling asleep) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 12:38:43 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Gerry Subject: This and that Message: Gerry, They got this cat on a TV commercial called Baxter. If I ever get another cat, I'm gonna name him that. Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 13:02:09 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Rick Subject: Cats Message: Rick, Somehow I envision you nuzzling up to a pit bull, not a kitty, but then you could probably say the same to me, huh? Baxter is good; I'm gonna write them all down. More, more! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 13:25:05 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Cats Message: Some names of cats I know or knew: Max Scoochie Squash Spike Lute Bibby (and all the rest of the Arizona wildcats) Sammy Alto - what's the name of the cat on the simpsons? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 13:35:39 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Selena Subject: Cats Message: Gerry, My favorite 2 cat names in my life, Jazz Bow Beans, he could turn a door knob and open the door and we made a whole cartoon series with him in a leisure suit! Dr. Renior Gibson, and I would always ask him how he ever got through medical school. :) Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 14:31:44 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Cats Message: Yes, well I get my fill of Pit Bulls when I chat with premies. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 15:55:20 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Rick Subject: Cats off topic Message: Dear Rick - I think you are definitely a cat person, BTW. Remember when we were discussing Freddy getting attacked by birds? Well, about a month ago, my cats started being the target of diving attacks by grackles when I let them out (I do let them out, but only when I am supervising them). One of the cats used to be an outside cat, knew what was going on, and was scared (even though he weighs 15 lbs. I guess birds can hurt kittens, and that's probably when he learned it). The other cat has always been an inside cat and ignored the birds - I think he didn't know WHAT was going on. Anyway, the cats' solution to this problem, which I thought was very creative was to sit under the clothesline, which is two strands strung about two feet apart about five feet off the ground. The birds wouldn't fly under there to attack them. Just thought Freddy might appreciate the tip. Katie P.S. to Gerry: My cats are named Fletcher and Henry. We named Henry 'Henry' because, according to our 1952 dictionary, it means 'ruler of an enclosure'. It suits him. I like to name my cats people names like Virgil, Milo (two former cats) and Phineas (my sister's cat). If I had a black cat like yours, I might name him Nemo. Depends on the cat, really. Maybe Thor (I like that name a lot.) The lady across the street named her two poodles after her brother and sister (I don't know if this was meant to be a compliment or an insult!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 16:32:50 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: Cats off topic Message: Dear Katie, I love the poodles named after the brother and sister, what a laugh! We had a cat named, Dylan C. Chubbs because he'd eat non stop if you left dry food out. We even tested him with a huge bowl of food and he ate and ate and burped and ate and burped. We picked the bowl up because we thought he'd eat till he exploded. He was so layed back and relaxed he would lie sprawled on his back legs hanging out and the birds would be swooping down on him. He seemed to enjoy it! The one cat we have now, Noah, we got as a tiny kitten when his mom died and fed him with a tiny animal bottle but he soon needed more so I used a baby juice bottle and then had to cut a cross in the nipple. He would drink so much when I put him down his little feet barely hit the floor his belly was so big and round. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 16:51:57 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Cats off topic Message: Dylan C. Chubbs is a hoot, Robyn! Sometimes cats will eat that much if they have been starved at one point, but I think some of them just like to eat constantly. P.S. Both my cats have nicknames: Mozart (my nephew did this) and Tirebiter (this is from that old Firesign Theater song). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 17:15:07 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: Cats off topic Message: Dear Katie, That brings tears, Mozart was our wild dog/puppy who was hit by a car and died. We only knew him a short time but what a lover and a clown. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 16:59:35 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: glyng@techline.com To: Katie Subject: Cats off topic Message: My brother (oldest in the family) had two pigs which he named Al and Ellie after our parents. The pigs had a litter and Ellie rolled over one of the piglets and it died. It was winter and the thing froze and he put it on outside windowsill where it stayed until spring. Weird window treatment, I thought. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 17:23:19 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Cats off topic Message: Well, that story ought to cheer Robyn up when she reads it! (Was the window thing supposed to be symbolic or something? Or did he just want to give the piglet a proper burial?) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 22:44:18 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: Cats off topic Message: Dear Katie, Thought I'd just read these quick and get home but I am puzzeled and laughing, why in god's name would a sqwished, dead, frozen pigglet, left on a window sill all winter till spring, cheer me up, but then I guess it did!!!! :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 19:35:29 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Pigs off topic Message: It made me laugh too, although I hate to admit it. Would be interested in knowing his brothers motivation, though. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 19:22:37 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Katie Subject: Cats off topic Message: Why Katie, that's the nicest compliment anyone could pay me. Thank you. Freddy is right here now, sleeping on my chest (the computer's in front of the couch). He's 12 pounds, 1 year old, black Manx/Siamese. The bird situation resolved itself, when Freddy started catching the buggers at night. We'd wake up to find birds in the living room, he'd brought in through the cat flap. Feathers everywhere! After two certified kills, the birds never attacked him again. The clothesline was a good idea. Smart cats. Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 19:36:38 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Rick Subject: Cats off topic Message: You're welcome, Rick. Fletcher (15 lb grey tabby) is sleeping on my mouse pad at this moment. This makes it a little hard to type, but I can't stop him from doing it. He lets me use half of it. He is the one who thought of the clothesline idea. You should probably say 'smart cat', as Henry is not all that innovative - just cute. BTW, I am sure Fletcher would have LOVED to solve his bird problem in the same way Freddy did, but I won't let him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 23:39:27 (EST)
From: Joy Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Cat Names Message: Why don't you call him 'premieji'? Or, if that might be too much to deal with on a daily basis, LOTUS (for Lord of the Universe Sucks)? My next cat, if I ever have another after Sweet Pea, best cat in the world, will be called Tibellina, after the cat in Iris Murdoch's last novel. (Iris now has Alzheimers and probably won't be writing any more novels, alas.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 23:45:06 (EST)
From: Peter Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Cats Message: How about Loki? Good for a cat that heads straight for the flower vases. I guess Fuzzy is too obvious. But it appeals to me because my sense of humor is still stuck in junior high school. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 01:39:02 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: red heart Subject: the magic is true Message: Thanks, red, I think I just read that off a Dr. Bronner;'s Soap bottle. You can sure say again that knowledge isn't for everyone. Funny how BM never said that, he said, for many years at least, that it was for EVERYONE, was the purpose of every human's life and that the entire world would receive it. Funny how little things like that get changed. only those who approach with real humility, sincerity, honesty and thirst can experience the highest bliss within. Oh now., come on. What if you have three out of the four. That might work, right? I mean, what if you have humility, sincerity and honesty, but you're just not really that thirsty right now. Do you miss out on the bliss just because of that? I mean, what if you are just a tad dishonest, like you shaved a little on your income tax return, you know, you wrote off that trip to Amaroo as a business expense. Or maybe you 'borrowed' a few office supplies at work. Some tape, paper clips. No bliss? Lose out? Damn! And what about grace, red? For many years M said you couldn't experience ANYTHING about knowledge, or even make effort, or even BE humble, sincere, honest and thirsty, WITHOUT his grace. Didn't he say for many years that it was ALL due to HIM and NOT to us at all? I personally heard him say that many times. Funny how that little item got change too! The revisionism of guru maharaj ji and his premies knows no bounds. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 04:31:11 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: red heart Subject: And that's that, Red Heart Message: Red Heart wrote: 'a person who tries to push another person to follow the Master is cheating that person. extra obstacles are added that will make it harder for the person to come to the Master of free choice.' You are trying to push people to follow the Master. Therefore the above applies to you. And here I am sorry because communication with you has become impossible. You fail to realise that all you are doing is driving an ever deeper wedge between Maharaji and ex-premies with your constant attempt to ram your experience down our throats. You are putting people off Maharaji for life! Perhaps that is your aim. But sadly, I see no point in trying to communicate with you. It will just be more of the same, won't it. You don't want to communicate here on an equal level as one person to another. Therefore I won't reply to any more of your posts. MY door is always open. But only to people who see me as a fellow human being on an equal footing. I'm afraid you've only convinced me that you are not interested in the people here. You are only interested in converting us to your beliefs and ideologies. That is not communication. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 28, 1998 at 02:18:54 (EST)
From: red heart Email: None To: Sir David Subject: And that's that, Red Heart Message: interesting that you perceive me as the one ramming things down people's throats. i'm very much of an opposite opinion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 01:47:56 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Selena Subject: an old friend Message: Now that I think back on it, and hearing about your talk with your friend, and especially hearing form x, I truly wonder what it must be like for some of those premie kids, or those kids what were coerced into the whole trip for so long. I'm glad there are those who see through it so clearly. It must now seem so bizarre to them. At least I was 19 when I got involved. Can you imagine being 8 and being at programs where BM danced topless and you saw your parents dancing and screaming? I mean it might have seemed 'normal' at the time, but what about afterwards, when the kid got older. Sounds like 10 years of therapy right there. And then there were those darshan lines......we have already discussed that! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 28, 1998 at 02:25:12 (EST)
From: red heart Email: None To: JW Subject: dancing topless Message: so it disturbed you to see Maharaji dancing without a shirt? hmmm...this supports my hypothesis that most of the exes that post here are died in the wool prudes. I mean really! Wherefrom this puritan ethic stuff? and you feel abused because you saw your parents having a great time. hmmm... sorry, I don't get it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Jun 28, 1998 at 09:39:10 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: red heart Subject: dancing topless Message: Dear Red, I am no PRUDE! I don't read your posts but this with this subject I just couldn't resist. I live in the country and can and have danced naked in the breeze and I am quite sure that many of us here are free within ourselves to enjoy all kinds of things, meditation, love, living etc. The thing about BM is that it was a show. I'll bet that man is NO GOOD in bed and not very appealing to watch dancing topless for that reason and because it was all a show to entice a reaction of sexual devotion, which I have come to learn is a part of Hindi spiritual beliefs. If he was really at ease within himself I think he would not be able to stop from caring about others. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 18:43:46 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: Everyone Subject: IMHO Jim Message: In response to a lower thread. - I personally enjoy all of Jim's posts. His opinions regarding 'new age', BM etc. are nearly mirror images to my thoughts and feelings. I've been accused of being jaded and negative by pollyannas who choose to ignore much of reality, but I prefer to consider myself a realist who insists on proof above wishful thinking. So keep it up Jim! Some people like what you have to say. warmly x Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 18:58:57 (EST)
From: G's mom Email: None To: x Subject: agree with x (nt) Message: no text Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 19:06:36 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: G's mom Subject: Thanks Message: Thanks x and G-mom. You know, it's funny. People around the courthouse who know I was in this cult still probably suspect that I'm a little 'that way', you know. Yet, here, amongst a bunch of people who one fell for this extragant new age idiocy, I'm considered something of a hard-liner. What a joke. Let's face it, it ain;t that surprising that a bunch of people who once got into Maharaji, whether they're presesnt or past believers, have kept a lot of the new age baggage they bought for that trip. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 23:44:42 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jim Subject: Thanks Message: <->Yet, here, amongst a bunch of people who one fell for this extragant new age idiocy, I'm considered something of a hard-liner. What a joke. I, for one, think you're still a little 'that way.' -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 00:03:00 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Thanks Message: Okay, what's THAT supposed to mean, Scott? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 03:50:45 (EST)
From: Bill Cooper Email: billnlynda@xtra.co.nz To: Jim Subject: Thanks Message: I Lurk around this site a lot but seldom write. Partly thats because most of what I want to say has been said by people more eloquent than myself. I feel that most of the time Jims views are pretty much what I feel. I think he is generally given a hard time and most of the people who engage in dialogue with him dont play fair. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 18:28:55 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Bob Kirby Message: Hey Bob, You out there? Bob, last I heard you'd moved to Montana or something. Not Montana Avenue, but the real thing. I met Bob at a party years ago in Topanga Canyon. I was feeling good, it was a good feeling party. Anyway, Bob used to be Maharaji's plumber and, like me, was really into trying to sort out the Maharaji enigma. This is like '87, maybe '88. Bob's an intense really smart guy who's exactly Maharaji's height. Thus Maharaji used to give him his old (?) suits, not that Bob ever really had any use for them. Together, I think Bob and I went some distance deprogramming ourselves and each other. We'd be sitting there, thinking, someone would come up with 'hey, how is it that Maharaji no longer claims to have holy initiators, yet their touch is still essential for the proper transmission of knowledge?' In those days, those were important questions for me. And Bob would tell me about being at the residence, doing some work (I think the last thing he did was install Maharaji's hottub or something). Maharaji would come out, chat with him a bit. That was okay. But once Maharaji had this party. It was either an anniversary party or a birthday party for Mrs. Maharaji. At one point, Bob told me, Maharaji was cutting cake and giving pieces to everyone. He offered one to Bob and Bob said 'no thanks'. Hey, can you imagine that? Turning down fresh prashad? What was he thinking? Everyone was flabberghasted and the tension was thick. Maharaji stared at Bob and offered him the cake again. Again Bob said no. Like I said, Bob can be really intense at times. He told me this was one of those times. So the two of them had this little battle of wills, the Lord trying to get Bob to take this stupid piece of cake and Bob saying no. Finally Maharaji backed off and that was that. Is there anyone here who happened to have been there? Bob felt so good about that. Can you imagine? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 19:58:01 (EST)
From: Malibu Mole Email: None To: Jim Subject: Bob Kirby Message: Bob was a regular at the 80's parties, where there was quite a bit of heavy drinking by Mr and Mrs Maharaji. Bob's date at a few of these parties was amazed at Marolyn's behavior towards her Lord . More like angry bitchy flirty wife than devotee. Also dissing him publically.And M's behavior was more like Ray Milland in 'Lost Weekend' than the King of Kings. But Bob's the guy to get the real story from. He never asked me to go to the parties, though they were a regular staple for awhile here in Malibu. Everybody knew about them. They either rationalized them, or got out of here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:07:08 (EST)
From: Selena Email: None To: Malibu Mole Subject: Bob Kirby Message: Amazing!!! That's the funniest thing and saddest thing I have heard in a long time. I may need another week to process that one. Some premie M defender will most likely come on soon and say that this is malicious gossip and the Malibu Mole could be any one of us, etc. But I had heard these rumors frequently in the late 80's. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:54:42 (EST)
From: Joy Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com To: Malibu Mole Subject: Bob Kirby Message: Hi Malibu Mole, it's been awhile since we've heard from you! Am wondering whatever happened to Pranam Bai (Kathy Sullivan), who was in chage of the Malibu residence for years. She used to let me and a friend come and do 'service' cleaning the already spotless house when M. wasn't there (I think I do remember some gold plumbing fixtures, but can't be certain). I thought she was a pretty cool person and seemed to have her wits about her. A friend said she saw her at a program recently (sorry, an 'event'), but didn't think she was at the residence any more. You can e-mail me privately, if you wish. --Joy Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 03:38:46 (EST)
From: Malibu Mole Email: None To: Joy Subject: Pranam Bai Message: Kathy definitely bounced hard from the pathological enviornment at the Residence, and had waged a lengthy and I heard successful battle with substance abuse. As of last year she was living in the area and working as the local 'Bookmobile lady' for the LA Public Library. She remains an honest wide-eyed plain-speaking woman, and is definitely not part of the public knowledge scene here. Not saying that she couldn't have looked in on a big Premie program for curiosity's sake. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 13:05:47 (EST)
From: Joy Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com To: Malibu Mole Subject: Pranam Bai Message: Dear Mole, thanks for the info on Pranam Bai (I'm sure she no longer goes by THAT name!). Sorry to hear she's had a battle with drugs or whatever. My friend who saw her at the program said she thought she looked a little rough. I wish her well in her new life and escape from that concentration camp called the Divine Residence. If living in the ashram was intense, I can only imagine being at the residence all that time was even more bizarre and crazy. Could you possibly tell her about the site and ask her if she'd like to contribute a few stories, perhaps anonymously? I bet she's got some humdingers. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 14:45:30 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Malibu Mole Subject: Pranam Bai Message: Thanks, MM, I didn't know Kathy well, but I recall her as this very regular person from, I think, Detroit, who was very down-to-earth. I recall BM asked her to give satsang at the Orlando program in 1975 on the subject of 'service.' She had just become 'Pranam Bai' and she said BM asked her to speak about it because she did service at 'the' residence. I can still hear her talking so simply about doing something not for yourself and how fulfilling that was. She seemed so sincere. It's too bad that the pressure cooker of 'the' residence caused her problems. I have a hard time believing they were of her own making. JW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 00:36:14 (EST)
From: red heart Email: None To: Jim Subject: Bob Kirby Message: trying to figure out the Knowledge with the mind is not the answer. the answer is in the heart. too bad he forgot that. maybe he will remember some day. i knew bob. i thought he was a sweet guy. i remember that he expressed to me he felt his role in life was too humble. i hope he finds it again some day - the way back to listening to his heart. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:16:05 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The old days and Jim Message: Perhaps some of you got involved in the 80's--you were lucky (sort of). When we old timers were indoctrinated this was the game plan: 1. Never delay in attending satsang (7 days a week from 7:30-9:30) followed by Arti - (a devotional 15-minute song). We heard how beautiful it was, how incredible the Lord was, etc. Of course, no one was having a really great experience. Some people were good liars. I never felt anything and said so and wondered what was wrong with me. Remember some people had a deeper well and had to work harder for that experience (bad karma). Nowadays MJ says that some people are like mung bean sproats and experience quickly. Others are like coconuts--you know, people like me. 2. Meditate for a minimum of one hour in the morning and one hour in the evening. 3. Mediate constantly (Nectar - technique - #4) and remember the Holy Name - technique #3) as much as possible. I remember Anne Johnston mentioning to remember it even in your sleep. 4. Never leave room for doubt in your mind. 5. Always have faith in God. MJ told us how much he hated lust, greed, etc. (the 7 deadly sins). Meanwhile, we young folks were made to feel guilty for having sexual desires, being smart, etc. MJ told us to become invisible. We were nothing. Some of the ashram premies used to sneak over to my house to complain about their lives and to smoke. I got as far as an apartment at the side of the ashram. One day I was told not to wear my bathing suit on the lawn as it was disturbing to the brothers. OH, BROTHER! No wonder Jim is angry. He and the rest of us went against our grain for the sake of the Lord and the bliss we could have. The only bliss we ever had was the mind-blowing group consciousness effect. Some pay off. It feels so good to stand on my own two feet, but I'm going to miss my friends. MJ has indirectly affected my whole life, but not anymore. I feel GREAT. JIM, DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 17:37:02 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Gail Subject: memories in the 'shram Message: 'One day I was told not to wear my bathing suit on the lawn as it was disturbing to the brothers.' Hey, I remember you! Wow, that was a great view while it lasted. Seriously though, in my final months in the 'shram there was a sister who went out and bought a bathing suit. It was the subject of several satsangs by her... how difficult it was to go into a department store it put her in her mind she knew she wasn't supposed to care how she looked she didn't even think she should spend the money she really wasn't given enough money to buy a nice one should she be spending money on something that wasn't satsang service or meditation then when she got to the beach,she found she was really in her mind because she kept looking around at everyone and wondering how looked - were her breasts too big and were they showing too much - was her suit cut too high around her rear end (I REALLY enjoyed her satsangs!). So then one day I came home unexpectedly in the middle of the day and she was vacuuming in her bathing suit. Hey, now this was exciting stuff! So then she wanted to know what I thought of her new bathing suit was it too low cut on top, was it too high cut on the bottom etc. So, I walked closer to get a better look and... Oops sorry I gotta go... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 18:06:00 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: John Subject: Randy Berringer Message: Does anyone remember her? (Yes, it was a HER.) She was at first married to some guy named Berringer (or 'Baringer?') but they split up and moved into the ashram and she went to work as secretary to Jim Hession at DECA BM's plane project). Anyway, Randy was, shall we say, very healthy. She had this amazing body. I mean I was amazed, just AMAZED at it. She had enormous breasts. She also had a tendency to wear tight sweaters while working at DECA. I mean, she hadn't seen her own feet in years. I swear the carpet in front of her desk was worn thin from the ashram brothers walking by all day long. Anyway, one time I was at a meeting with some of the coordinators at some ashram in Miami Beach (I think it was about some upcoming festival) in front of a glass door opening onto the pool. While the meeting was going on, Randy decided to put on her two-piece swimsuit and go for a swim in that very pool. Anyway, when she walked out ALL of the heads of the premies at the table, yes, including mine, turned to watch Randy's every move. The meeting came to a grinding hault. It was hysterically funny. Very distracting. So, I can see what the ashram brothers might have been thinking. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 19:01:26 (EST)
From: G's mom Email: None To: JW Subject: Randy Berringer Message: I know I met her but cannot recall anything specific. Funny story. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:09:40 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Judex - burn your library! Message: Jim I can't decide what is right or wrong but I would like to add a point to yours - the forgiveness thing you are talking about connects with that old concept of karma - I thought you guys knew all about that from old Maharaji teachings. It's supposed to be like a chain - you keep meeting the same people lifetime after lifetime that you are strongly attached to - either by pain or love - until you let go. Any strongly-held feeling toward them keeps you linked. So until you forgive them you will not be free. (In psychotherapy this person would be seen to be a part of yourself that you needed to come to terms with in some way). You actually believe this? That's it, you just accept it wholesale? Holy shit. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 21:03:42 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: Davd.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Judex Subject: Judex - burn your library! Message: Love lasts forever. Hate doesn't. Love attracts and unites. Hate repulses. I see nothing to worry about. Love is the stronger force. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 23:35:36 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Judex - burn your library! Message: David: I see nothing to worry about. Love is the stronger force. In my experience too. It is problematic that the atrocities committed in S. America, and some other places, were met with amnesty. It reeks of injustice and evokes righteous indignation, but it has improved the political cilmate and most of the southern cone is on the verge of democracy. It's a tough pill to swallow for some, though. Reality bites, but we'll get a chance to bite back, at least. A life well lived is the best revenge. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 03:17:16 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Scott T. Subject: Hate is understood by love Message: I think in that case, Scott, it's economic necessity. Nobody could blame the parents of one of the 'disappeared' from hating the perpetrators of such crimes. To know that your son or daughter was thrown out of an aeroplane like a piece of old baggage would be a very hard one to live with. In Britain, the ex-prisoners of war of the Japenese labour camps have never forgiven the Japenese for their war crimes. Many of these POWs refuse to even sit in a Japanese car. But the spirit in people that understands their feelings is the spirit of love and compassion. Also in London recently, when the POWs ceremoniously turned their backs on the Japenese emperor (on his state visit) they were remembering their dead friends who they had left behind in Japan. Love is stronger than hate. The POWs said they just wanted to meet the emperor and receive a formal apology from him in person, they didn't seek revenge. Unfortunately, royal protocol did not allow for such a meeting to take place. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 14:51:02 (EST)
From: o. Email: None To: everyone Subject: and who will fill Message: that empty place inside Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 14:57:12 (EST)
From: NDYW Email: None To: o. Subject: Story of O Message: Try getting out and doing something for someone else (even though you are actually the main beneficiary). Works for me. What is this emptyness and why do you look to someone else to fill it? How about just accepting it as part of life, part of the human predicament? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:29:21 (EST)
From: bill burke Email: None To: NDYW Subject: O K Message: Excuse me for dropping into a conversation in midstream, but WHAT EMPTYNESS? There is nothing to feel? Your attitude is your ticket out of desolation and if you want to feel anything you have a vast array of options that come standard with your life. I personally find feeling the breath to be a good way to feel something good. My life! Go do something nice for someone else and I bet you find yourself feeling good. Go hang out at a playground for a little while and watch the kids play. Thier voices will get to you. Feeling empty is the playground of buddists and spiritual types. Leave that emptyness to them and YOU pick a fresh attitude and get yourself a new set of friends and or circumstances. Feel your breath! You are not empty and eating ice cream works for my wife when all else fails! Perhaps you need someone close who cares about you. Until you find someone you are welcome HERE! Not everyone does well alone. In prison they put you alone when they want to punish you. Sounds odd, but we are not so good at figureing out how to feel good all by ourselves. Haveing a human body is a great thing and you have all the chances in the world to take your present lifestyle and fill it with stuff that is more to your likeing. Your moving life force was provided to you when you got your body. If you feel empty inside, well, feel your life force, IT does provide a full feeling boost if you feel it for a while. By the way, prem rawats claims to be somehow part of your breath are totally fraudulant. So keep him properly out of your awareness of your own life force moving. Your attitude is the key. Go danceing. Do something for the person near you that needs a friendly contact. You will remember something. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:49:11 (EST)
From: NDYW Email: None To: bill burke Subject: O K Message: thanks bill, I needed that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 21:46:16 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: bill burke Subject: bb-The Big O Message: Nice answer :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:37:32 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: cadbury@compuserve.com To: o. Subject: and who will fill Message: your own true self Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:46:39 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Jethro Subject: Thanks Jethro Message: I have read many of your posts here, Jethro and I'd just like to let you know that I really appreciate them. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 19:19:00 (EST)
From: Gail Email: freedom@gtn.net To: o. Subject: and who will fill Message: Dear O I started reading here on June 9, 1998. I felt sad for about a two weeks. Now a feel great. I was so caught up in the guilt and the fear. That was filling the hole. e.g. It's time to meditate, but do this first, etc. By the end of this, I had neither meditated or done anything else. It feels really good not to have to do anything. Today, I was talking to one of the premies. I asked her if she was going to the BBQ tomorrow before the big satsang meeting with Padarthanon. She said yes and asked if I was. I told her that I had not been invited. She said she could understand it. The hostess was worried if I'd be, [well] kinda negative. I concluded the conversation with, well, after 24 years, I am rather surprised. Then I realized that I don't even need those people. I probably wouldn't have hung out with them if it had not been for the COMMON PURPOSE TRIP. How many times do you want to talk about how incredible K is. I just hope the little darlings, who owe me about five grand collectively, pay me back. IT WAS NOT A DONATION. Honestly, it does feel good to be free. This trip hasn't been fun for many years. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:34:33 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: To Judex (and Scott) Message: [repost from freshly inactive thread] >Fine! But you gotta understand, my new friend, Maharaji's the only person in the world that got captured my mind and body for eight years, putting my life on hold so to speak. Did I say this was the worst thing that ever happened to anyone? Of course not. Your point is ridiculous. Jim you never take responsibility for spending 8 years of your life how YOU chose THEN whether it was right or wrong, stupid or smart. Jim it was an experience you had. We all had some good, some bad experiences. If you stop blaming Maharaji for CAPTURING your youth you might work out what you are so bitter about now from 'losing' your youth - which is obviously that you feel you are wasting your life NOW in some way. There is no past, don't you get that? There's just leftovers of NOW. There's debris, and there's now. So how do you feel NOW Jim? and who you gonna blame? What are you going to do about how yuo feel now? Can't change the past, Jim, it's gone. (I know you're going to hate me for all these posts but I'm just saying things I've been thinking inside for a long time. I'm 'de-Jimming myself'. If you get me thrown off thsi Forum for sayign all this, fine. By the way, are you the one who pays for the Forum? Judex, Please remember that you swing so far from one to extreme to the other at this point, you're hardly in a position to pontificate. Put your stupid new age psychobabble to the side and think a bit further. What you're saying here is either sublimely trite or off. Go see a movie or something. Have a few drinks. Get out of this sombe new age garbage. At the very least, please don't lay it on me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:06:23 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Jim Subject: IMHO Message: Well, I hate to do this, that is, point out something positive about Jim, but what the hell. There are some among us who claim that Jim is SOOOOO negative and angry and that's what he is all about, and he needs to get over it. Yeah, Jim does express anger. But what about his humor? He has posted just as many, I think, very funny and entertaining posts. I think the humor indicates that he has achieved a certain balanced perspective. And really folks, how can anyone be an ex-premie and not have just a teensy bit of anger towards the ex-lord of the universe? you're kidding yourself if you don't feel some negative feelings towards the guy. IMHO. saw the real light in '82 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:19:30 (EST)
From: NDYW Email: None To: John Subject: IMHO Message: Concur with John. I always look for a thread with a ''Jim'' in it especially if it is a new one. I know it will usually be funny as hell, and if not, challenging and thought provoking. Dr. Indie also agrees with the diagnosis of ''normal'' craziness. How can anybody be alive and not be just a little twisted? I haven't run across any saints here or anywhere Which brings to mind a question I've been wanting to ask premies especially, and anyone else who would care to comment: Have you ever met anyone who is ''realized'', or ''enlightened''? Personally, my take on it is that it is an illusion based on some goofy superstition, or wishful thinking. Anybody meet one? (The BM doesn't count. He is a sociopath, not a saint.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:00:08 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: NDYW Subject: IMHO Message: Well, here I am agreeing with John and NDYW. Frankly, I think what others interpret as 'anger' from Jim might well be projection. What I have seen in Jim, and I recognize it because I see it in myself, is not so much anger (there is some, but I think it's a relatively minor emotion here)as it is a sort of 'merry prankster' attitude. Especially those of us who lived in the ashrams, were drowned for years in a constant reverence to BM, constant fawning about his golden, glorious form and his supreme wisdom. Even if you had thoughts to the contrary, you were made to feel guilty about them. Publicly expressing them was a mortal sin. Even to this day, premies are programmed to not even thing a discouraging word about him. So, it's very fun and therapeutic, to undermine that programming and talk about BM like he really is, with some bravado, color and humor. This may look like expressing 'anger,' but I wouldn't be so sure. If you recall the Pat Haley interview in the Lord of the Universe video, I think he expresses that attitude very well. It was his desire not to 'hurt' BM, but just bring him down to 'street level.' It's a kind of 'emperor's new clothes,' equality thing, as opposed to any 'anger and revenge' thing. Also, when people start talking about 'forgiving' BM, I tend to be very suspect of that. I can understand the 'forgiving' process people go through internally, but I'm not about to let that lead to an impression that BM can be let off the hook. This is very different than being consumed by anger, or even being angry. I just think it's unfair, and probably unwise, for anyone to assume what someone else is feeling and what their motivations are. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:33:38 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: IMHO Message: Thanks John, Indie and Joe, Yes, you guys are right and all the new age fee fee foo foo is just pee pee poo poo, if you ask me. Joe, you're absolutely right that it's exhilarating to take a strip off my former sacred cow. Judex, you just don't have my sense of humour, that's all. You've got your own (I think). Besides, I'm not sure what the gripe is here. Really. Is it that I'm determined to not compromise the past in discussions about Maharaji? How many of you remember realting to your breath as if it was Guru-Maharaj-Ji-in-a-bottle directing your every move? Never felt that way? Well I did. If there's an imbalance in my approach to this it's probably an economic one of misplaced priorities. If the 'war' was all over and Maharaji had died or something, I wouldn't think it healthy or reasonable to carry on like this -- like we all do. But it isn't. What we've got here, I kind of believe/hope/if-not-yet-soon-enough, is a guru-on-the-run. There are some who would ahve thought this very web site would have been an excessive and unhealthy past-based enterprise. Tell that to Gail or Becky. This is public service in the name of truth which is, I have to admit, a pretty impersonal and abstract agenda. Maybe I'm jsut looking to have a little fun, I don't know. But I'll tell you one thing, ..... I'm not sure what that one thing is. Let me think about it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:37:46 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: IMHO Message: Dear Jim, JW, John, NDWP(or whatever it is I just want to write NYPD-g) and all, I must need therapy! But here I am defending Jim also, in a way. I'd be dishonest if I didn't admit that the man can get under my skin sometimes big time but I think he is a big part of my work I am doing on myself in that I push myself to stand up for myself to him. I hope that I will learn to relate to him better over time too. I also agree with the rest that he can be funny as HELL! and I love that. The one additional good point I'd like to add is that he also has a big heart and has shown it here with less frequency as other sides of himself but I have seen in numorous times. I must admit I relate to that and his humor best but think I have the most to learn from his anger or frickin obnoxiousness. Now can we be pen pals Jim! :) Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:46:51 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Robyn Subject: IMHO Message: Robyn, What a surprise to see you finally show a little emotion. I was wondering if there was some 'heart' there behind all that dry and dusty book learnin'. You know, you keep on talking about my being obnoxious (but you love me anyway!). Who, pray tell, am I obnoxious to? Yourself? Is that why you criticized my 'diaharrea' here? Or am I a bit 'impatient' (shall we say) with premies and new agers here? Is that what you don't like. What exactly is this 'work' on yourself you keep drawing me in to? Well, I guess it's something a guy like me will never understand. Still, it IS good to see you learn to express your feelings for change. :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:58:03 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: IMHO Message: Dear Jim, Come on Jim I know I get under your skin as well. I like you Jim. I know I said that diaharrea thing although I think I said the runs because I am a horrific speller. It is, I guess, the way you don't let up on me when we get into it that I find obnoxious. It is not something I am asking you to change. I think that knowing how much I like your humor and your caring attitudes that keeps me liking you. I also know that I have a problem dealing with anger and aggressiveness and YOU are helping me learn about that and deal with it. That is the work I am refering to. If it bothers you I can try not to respond to you, let me know and I did say TRY. Just as your anger gets under my skin so my gushy emotion get under your skin, now doesn't it. When I was first here you impatience with premies did upset me but I have come a long way with that thanks to you and Rick. I don't even read premie posts and don't get bothered by that. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 14:02:30 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Robyn Subject: IMHO Message: Robyn, To not read premies' posts here is like going on an alaska cruise and not looking overboard at the walruses and polar bears on shore. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:13:22 (EST)
From: G's mom Email: None To: Jim Subject: feeding the bears.... Message: Jim, I too enjoy your humor. This site has an element of fun because of that humor. When I posted a question to premies recently I felt like I was not just watching the bears frolic but I decided to feed them.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:17:52 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: IMHO Message: Dear Jim, I was preoccupied with getting to my tanning appointment before, and the fact that I was leaving job1 early and thus getting an early start on job2 today. I realized I never finished my thought about the runs statement (see now I can't spell diahrea without coping it from your post). I don't know exactly what I said at the time but thought you took it as more insulting than I'd intended and when you brought it up again I thought I'd let you know that. I am curious about it but no time to go back and find it to comment on and you probably don't care that much anyway. The funniest thing to me about my 1st IMHO post was that I thought you'd like it and be happy with what I said. Ha Ha! I still have a lot to learn! I wouldn't even go to Alaska, it is beautiful but pictures are as interested as I'd be so that must be why I don't read premies posts. To chilling and I LOVE the heat! Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:18:55 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: JW Subject: IMHO Message: Jesus, JW, if I could have you hanging around, I'd always be able to express myslef properly. Right on! Right on the button. The way I feel, is that forgiving BM is a mistake. It's also a mistake walking around in an emotional state about him. He isn't worth it. But he is worth a good poke now and then, to drag him down a few notches. Until the Bowel Movement Man is down to street level on a permanent basis, I'm always up for exposing the little punk. Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:35:03 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Everyone Subject: What's Wrong With Jim Message: Hey, look, while we're at it... Jim isn't perfect, right Jim? I mean, you have good qualities and bad qualities. Jim??? Everyone has flaws; family members, friends, significant others all remind us of what they are. So... what are Jim's. Now this is all very subjective, and just opinion, but.... Jim, you're very fucking annoying. Why? I don't know. Maybe it's because you pester, badger and unga-hitz. Do you know that Yiddish word, Jim? Unga-hitz. It's when you kind of taunt someone by saying the opposite of what you mean. You know you mean the opposite, and the person you're talking to knows you mean the opposite, but no one's getting openly hostile. It's all very under the table, and since I'm Jewish I can say it: It's all very Jewish. You don't come right out and insult someone, you do it in an underhanded way. And Jim, buddy, bubula, you, my friend, do the unga-hitz Big Time. On the other hand, Jim probably isn't annoying in person. Just a guess. So, that means, he isn't really, truly annoying. Just annoying on paper. Like monopoly money. But Jim has other qualities, and his perseverence about BM has helped many here, including me, get a lucid, clear picture and idea about who BM is. So Jim gets big-time applause for that. If only he wasn't so annoying. And if only Guru BM wasn't such an asshole, fraud, stupid Fuckhead. Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:05:36 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Rick Subject: Unga-hitz Message: Unga-hitz. It's when you kind of taunt someone by saying the opposite of what you mean. You know you mean the opposite, and the person you're talking to knows you mean the opposite, but no one's getting openly hostile. It's all very under the table, and since I'm Jewish I can say it: It's all very Jewish. You don't come right out and insult someone, you do it in an underhanded way. Rick, thanks for this. I have to tell you though, that it isn't just Jewish. My mom (100% pure Scandinavian Lutheran) has been doing it for years. For example, my sister and I know that when she says something looks 'cute' (our hair, clothes we have on, etc.), she thinks it's ugly. Maybe it's a Northern European thing?? But anyway, despite my many Jewish boyfriends, I never knew this word. They just taught me useless words like shicksa, schmata, and meshugenah (which maybe isn't so useless after all). Thanks again, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:20:28 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: He's making it up! Message: Rick, It's not fair to fool these goyim here. How could there be a word like that? I never heard it either. Seriously. I mean, not seriously. I mean, seriously I never heard it but I'm not serious now, I'm just kidding. No, that's a joke. Sorry. Oy gevalt! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:27:41 (EST)
From: Shicksabelle Email: None To: Jim Subject: Then it oughtta be! Message: Well if it ain't a word, it oughtta be. In whatever language (maybe Swedish???). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:49:09 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Shicksabelle Subject: It's a real word Message: Unga-hitz is definitely a real Yiddish word. I agree, Katie, that all cultures do this. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 21:11:28 (EST)
From: Shicksabelle Email: None To: Rick Subject: Thanks, Rick. Message: There needs to be a word for that, IMHO. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:19:29 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: John Subject: IMHO Message: John: I think the humor indicates that he has achieved a certain balanced perspective. There's a point where being a cute bully just doesn't cut it. IMHO Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:40:19 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jim Subject: To Judex (and Scott) Message: Jim: You've contributed exactly two (2) ideas to this forum. M is a fraud (true), and there is no God (who knows). At this point it's OK if you just SHUT THE FUCK UP. NOTHING ELSE IS FORTHCOMING. Not now. Not ever. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:34:17 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Pill time, Scott Message: You've contributed exactly two (2) ideas to this forum. M is a fraud (true), and there is no God (who knows). At this point it's OK if you just SHUT THE FUCK UP. NOTHING ELSE IS FORTHCOMING. Not now. Not ever. Now is that a nice thing to say to someone? Really, Scott. I realize that I'm no match for you in the world of ideas. Hell, I'm jsut a simple guy. You don't have to read my posts but, for some reason, you do. Chill out, man. I know you're a little pissed that Joe and I both said we couldn't figure out what the hell you were talking about. But remember, YOU'RE the Phd. here, not us. Forgive me, Scott. Forgive me even though I couldn't care less. Forgive me for your own growth and leave me out of it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 17:00:34 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jim Subject: Pill time, Scott Message: You've contributed exactly two (2) ideas to this forum. M is a fraud (true), and there is no God (who knows). At this point it's OK if you just SHUT THE FUCK UP. NOTHING ELSE IS FORTHCOMING. Not now. Not ever. I have to admit Jim, you WERE all aver this like a wet noodle. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:10:55 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jim Subject: To Judex (and Scott) Message: Jim: I don't belive you've addressed any of the substantive issues Judex brought up about your character, posting patterns, etc. What's the matter. Have you become CD-ified? -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:19:03 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Oh yeah?? Message: I don't belive you've addressed any of the substantive issues Judex brought up about your character, posting patterns, etc. What's the matter. Have you become CD-ified? Scott, I've addressed them all, I think. Seriously, I have. It's all there in my 'Grumping?' post. Besdies, I think the word's 'CD'ed'. Where'd you go to school, anyway? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:30:04 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jim Subject: Oh yeah?? Message: Jim: Setting up an ambush is not a sincere response in my book. I'll look it up, just to make sure. Great the way you loaded the gun with those high calibre bullets though. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:22:51 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: Jim Subject: New Age!!Jim.... Message: I wish you'd quit labeling these things you don't understand or disagree with as new age psychobabble! Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:29:43 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Carol Subject: New Age!!Jim.... Message: I wish you'd quit labeling these things you don't understand or disagree with as new age psychobabble! Why? Is anything new age psychobabble? What? And who says I don't understand? Jim Had my chart done 4 times by the time I was 20. Tried to get into Arthur Janov's Primal Scream Institute when I was 16. Did DMT 3 or 4 times (no need to even mention any other drug if you've done that one) and followed a 70s cult leader in the 70s. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:36:25 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: and also... Message: Forgot to mention, I went to the Oregon Country Fair and also the Whole Life Expo several times. Oh yeah, used to be Deadhead. Peace! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:45:24 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jim Subject: and also... Message: Jim: Forgot to mention, I went to the Oregon Country Fair and also the Whole Life Expo several times. Oh yeah, used to be Deadhead. Peace! Well, that surely makes you close omniscient in everything non-Dawkinsian. Go ahead. Prove a negative instead of just answering the woman sincerely. I wish you luck. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:47:43 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: and also... Message: Gotta go, talk to you later. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:38:35 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jim Subject: New Age!!Jim.... Message: Do you ever lose, or acknowledge a mistake you're responsible for? I mean, without blaming someone else? Do you ever do anything besides cute, cute cute... or bully? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:46:57 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: New Age!!Jim.... Message: Do you ever lose, or acknowledge a mistake you're responsible for? Yes. One big mistake I made was following Maharaji. Another was not suing him as soon as I got out. Hell, it might not have gone anywhere but at least I could have forced him to ansewr some questions under oath. I constantly make mistakes and even apologize for them. Anyway, who's asking? What's the big deal here? Are you saying I'm stuck in some position just because of my instransigent nature when, if I were more balanced I'd be swayed by your argument? Scott, your stuff about forgiveness was either indecipherable to me or simply wrong. I told you that, you weren't satisfied. Oh well. I guess I'll just have to live with that. I mean, without blaming someone else? Oh, sorry, I should have seen this part first. No, I NEVER acknowledge any error without taking someone else down with me. Hey, you got my number. Congratulations. Do you ever do anything besides cute, cute cute... or bully? No, cute and bully are pretty well it. Sorry. Hey, look, if you don't like it, don't bother with me. We're all brothers and sisters anyway. We just don't have to eat in the same part of the food tent. (Cute or bully or both?) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 19:31:15 (EST)
From: Stephen Harris Email: mulcyber@pacbell.net To: Carol Subject: New Age!!Jim.... Message: I have had quite a bit of experience with the New Age ideas. In all of them I had to suspend my critical thinking to accept a kingsize assumption which had no proof. Gurus, Tarot, channelig or crystals, the bottom line was gullibility, and wanting it to be true. If you spend enough time around New Age people you find a jargon reminding one of premie-speak, though the favorite terms and expressions differ. Appropriately yours, Stephen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 00:24:58 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: Stephen Harris Subject: New Age!!Jim....and Stephen Message: My personal experiences and the meaning I make of them, have no category except honest communication. We see things differently. Many people who draw similar conclusions about life feel a responsibility and desire to try to share them with others. There are many helping and serving authors, therapists and speakers and simply friends, who make it a priority in their lives to share what they have learned. They do not fall into any one category. You labelers are prejudiced! The only prejudice I have had is against prejudiced and closed-minded people, and I am developing acceptance and compassion for them. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 10:16:33 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Carol Subject: New Age!!Jim....and Stephen Message: Dear Carol, and all, I hate that word New Age. I have experiences that I have not asked for they have just happened in my life and to be honest, I am honnored. They can not be explained by anything I've seen, read or heard about in the physical reality. Those of us who also have similar experiences have been made to feel like less here. Less rational, less valid. We have gone, thanks to Gerry, to another place to discuss these experiences. There are more here that also share these unexplainable experiences whom, for whatever reasons, have not joined this 'spinnoff' group and I am sorry I can not share my experiences with them here. So be it. I, recently, have been learning that there is a New Age Movement out there that has nothing to do with me. It is institutionalized and I am against that process when ever it can be avoided as I feel it drains the 'life' out of any good endeavor. I think maybe that is the 'New Age' Jim, Stephen and others here object to. When we were all going back and forth about the discussion of these topics here I simply said and will repeat it here again, that I have these experiences and rather than concider myself insane and less than I choose to validate myself and value the special gift of these experiences. I have missed much on the forum recently so don't know the background of what seems to be many differnt important discussions and for that I am sorry as I like to keep up and so I may not be approaching this correctly but still these are my feelings. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 18:28:10 (EST)
From: Stephen Harris Email: mulcyber@pacbell.net To: Robyn if applicable Subject: New Age!!Channels-long Message: Most of the people on the forum felt that at one time MJ was giving them love or was the source of love. Later some realized that they themselves could experience joy and love all on their own. They were born with it. MJ was not an objective cause of their capacity to experience an inner joy. Most of us are capable of many subjective states of mind or experiences. And a lot of people can talk about them very fluently. This does not make the experience objective in this sense. People can claim to channel entities that are very old souls and very wise. They can talk very pretty. Story tellers have been able to do that for a long time. They can tell you your past lives and pre-incarnation agreements. But none of them can tell you where you lost your glasses. Channels over the years have developed justifications for never having to prove the existence of some such independently conscious beings. All they do is claim it. Just like MJ claimed to be greater than God. In their favor they can usually talk about spiritual matters more intelligently than MJ. So I think there is a subjective experience. I don't believe what is claimed when they speak of spirit guides. That type of inner wisdom can flow for everyone just like everyone can feel joy without MJ. People pay channels $60+ an hour because they want to believe a wise loving entity is guiding them. That was the reason they were attracted to MJ in the first place or another guru after him. To someone who has grown out of this, the experiences look like part of the same pattern with superficial differences. I think it is another philosophical approach not grounded other than in a personal reality. I question the interpretation about common reality given to these subjective experiences. They always lack a physical verifiable fact. Which gets back to belief,sincere or not So if you want to dispute what I say *with me* present some facts. Not philosophy whichall sounds the same after awhile from channels Regards, Stephen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 18:37:47 (EST)
From: Stephen Harris Email: mulcyber@pacbell.net To: P.S. Subject: New Age!!Channels-long Message: P.S. By facts I don't mean that JZ Knight who claims to channel Ramtha, has a nice ranch and horses and people spend lots of their money on what she says. She has no helicopter or 707 :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 22:34:57 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Stephen Harris Subject: New Age!!Channels-long Message: Dear Stephen, I saw your post to me and I printed it out. I have got to get home but I will read it and reply in a new thread if I have to. Better print out my post too. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 01:24:56 (EST)
From: Stephen Harris Email: mulcyber@pacbell.net To: Robyn Subject: New Age!!Channels-long Message: I printed out your post. It was addressed to you 'if applicable'. And have not been on this forum long enough to know the nature of your personal experiences. I talked about a common New Age idea. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 10:01:03 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Dumping? Message: Sometimes I need to get stuff out here. I have just done that on the 'Thief and Liar' post below, mainly to Jim. Jim, I hope you reply. Because I came in after the conversation actually happened, it gave me an opportunity to pinpoint the arguments I have been tryign to answer for a long time to you Jim. So now I feel I have told you how I feel, at least verabilised it. I do not wish to dump on you but now I have managed to express myself I am very grateful. Also Scott I want to say the post about the communication issues used in conflict resolution has been profoundly stimulating to my mind lately and I am going to print it out. That is what I like about you Scott, you have some wonderful material which you post as well as being clear-thinking and kind. If anyone thinks I gush over Scott's 'big words' well I like reading Scott because guess what, I actually have a brain. I actually understand most of what he says, and I am getting better at understanding it. So for me learning new stuff is a big part of this Forum , of the enjoyment I get out of it. I also enjoy learning from Jim, especially the way he knows how to think rationally. I have only said all the things I have because it is like when someone you love has a problem, and no-one tells them about it (because they are too intimidated?) or because it is a group dynamic. That's what I warned about when I first came here - that this could become a cult (especially when we become abusive to all non-cult members ie premies, for example). Also, in group dynamics there is a leader, couple of supporters, etc and every now and then one person becomes the 'sickness' and they are usually gotten rid of by the group. The group victimises its own to 'expel' the accumulated 'bad vibes' of the whole group. In other words the collective shadow. So I hope I havent' dumped on anyone with my previous posts and I thank you all for the spirited posts and all the contirbutions. I have a bully in me too, and one who can't understand anything and one who never answers the right question. I was feelign almost suicidal, but now I'm not. I hoep I havent hurt anyone in the process - you guys gave me hope again when I saw that you are all willing to face issues and not ignore them. Thank you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 10:15:16 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Judex Subject: Dumping? Message: Dear Judex - I wanted to let you know that related to your posts in the anger and forgiveness thread below. I thought that they were right on target - you made a lot of good points, and your intelligence shines through in those posts. There are people on here who think that psychotherapy is bullshit. I disagree, and I agree with many of your insights because I have come to the same understandings through therapy. Some therapists are full of crap, but many are not, and I doubt if I'd still be around if I hadn't had the wisdom and support of some good therapists. I don't deny anyone their right to feel anger towards Maharaji. I think Richard and Jean-Michel are right on in their expressions of anger towards him. I do think that people need to go through a period where they are ANGRY as hell at Maharaji in order to separate themselves from him. It is like getting a divorce, IMHO. Only the person who is angry knows when this angry period ought to end. I also believe, though, that deliberately sustaining anger at Maharaji - or anyone - can end up hurting the person who is angry more than the person that the are angry at (Judex expresses this much better below!). Regards from Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:27:21 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Katie Subject: about therapy ... Message: There are people on here who think that psychotherapy is bullshit. I disagree, and I agree with many of your insights because I have come to the same understandings through therapy. I also believe, though, that deliberately sustaining anger at Maharaji - or anyone - can end up hurting the person who is angry more than the person that the are angry at What happened to me in fact, is that my anger started manifesting after one year of therapy. Then it took me almost another year to understand where it was really coming from. I understood it was related to PPR , but it wasn’t that easy to sort all my feelings and to understand precisely what was harmful for me in my ‘premie life’. My therapist never made any comment or suggestion, and I had to come to the conclusion myself. Like you said, it’s exactly like a divorce : I HAD to leave him because there was something obviously wrong, and my love feeling was blinding me. That’s also something painful to realize. Anger and sadness having been cheated and abused for 25 years. I don’t know where I would be at without therapy. Very likely some ‘fringe’ premie, never wanting to acknowledge reality. I think some people don’t like the idea of therapy because they wouldn’t like to have someone (therapist) having some ‘power’ on them. I can understand this. On the other hand, you’re not reluctant to go to a doctor for surgery, because you know your life or your health is at stake. Maybe we have too much pride and don’t understand that ‘mind health/balance’ is not totally in our hands. PPR gave us so much BS about mind (what HE calls ‘mind’ anyway), maybe that’s also part of the reason. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:29:36 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: about therapy ... Message: Dear Jean-Michel I love you too Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:34:02 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Judex Subject: Who's first? Message: I think you have my preference .... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:51:25 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jean-Michel Subject: Who's first? Message: Dear Jean-Michel, Good thing I'm not the jealous type! :) Besides I worship Judex myself. Love, Robyn Judex, I hope you don't mind that I've taken to saying that. You know I don't really worship you it is just that I've seen you go through your steps away from BM and grow back into yourself and work so hard to heal yourself. I love you too Judex. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:15:46 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Who's first? Message: LOL! Robyn you can say anything you like! You and Jean Michel have got me laughing - I actually feel happy! I know you are doing just great and you have inspired me too. Thank you! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:57:21 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jean-Michel Subject: about therapy ... Message: Dear Jean-Michel, This a small and possibly irrelavent comment but although I do believe in therapy and have been helped by it myself in the past, I agree with Katie that there are good and bad ones. I'm sure anyone would realize that. My point is somewhat removed from this and relates to medical doctors. I have always been healthy and my girls for the most part. My youngest daughter had a low platelett count for a while as an infant but other than broken bones and child birth I was happy to deal with colds and fevers without medical assistance and saw very few doctors. Those I did see did not impress me. I have been a diabetic for 8 years and now they are in my face. I like my doctor, she is a sweet woman but not much of a doctor, I think and she was my best choice in this rural area where I live. I just wanted to make the point that a bad or poor doctor is such no matter what field of study. I have a wonderful chiropractor and dentist as well but have also had some that were terrible. I don't know if this even matters here but I spit it out anyway. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:54:25 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Robyn Subject: about therapy & Drs Message: I agree with you completely. I've been lucky enough (some grace left?) to find a good therapist and lucky enough to find excellent doctors when I needed them, because I also had very serious health problems 18 years ago. But I also know that I have some knowledge in that field, and that there are people I don't want to interact with. I also met 'bad' doctors, I left them on the spot. I'm not too impressed by those guys, they goof like anybody else. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 10:51:48 (EST)
From: NDYW Email: None To: Judex Subject: Dumping? Message: If anyone thinks I gush over Scott's 'big words' well I like reading Scott I think you're just sweet on him. ... that this could become a cult Oh come on, Judex don't be silly, use that brain. I think it's a good one but are you applying it here? I really don't want to turn this into a discussion of 'what is a cult?'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:01:57 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: NDYW Subject: Dumping? Message: I wanted to address that 'cult' or 'group dynamic' thing that Judex brought up as well. IMHO, there is no way this website could ever become a cult (although premies are constantly saying that it IS a cult and Jim is our leader!) I am too darn ornery to ever 'follow' someone again, and so are most of the other people on here. Including you, Judex, and NDYW, and many other people on here. All ex-premies aren't the same, we don't adhere to any party line, and we are free to disagree and fight with each other as much as we want. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 17:08:21 (EST)
From: Stephen Harris Email: mulcyber@pacbell.net To: Judex Subject: Dumping? Message: I wanted to address that 'cult' or 'group dynamic' thing that Judex brought up as well. IMHO, there is no way this website could ever become a cult (although premies are constantly saying that it IS a cult and Jim is our leader!)(Katie said) Wanted to practice this cut and paste thingy. Two major criteria for a cult are paying money and a charismatic leader. Some people are more likable, but they do not dictate how you think. A cult is more than a group of people that don't like the same guy. How are you ever going to get everyone on this forum tolerant of MJ or premies at the same time? Nobody plays nice all of the time. Regards, Stephen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:14:28 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: NDYW Subject: Dumping? Message: NO I dont want to talk about a cult either. But I do care about each and every person who comes here to the FOrum. And I know about scapegoats, because I used to be one all the time. Okay? My family travelled every few years adn I was always the new girl in school. Also we lived in foreign countries and I went to school when I couldnt even speak the fucking language. So I was a good scapegoat. And scapegoating is done to avoid the shadow, and in groups it's done to avoid the group shadow. So I don't want to see people leaving or being shamed into leaving this Forum or being abused so they will never come back here, even if they do get wise to Maharaji. I know it's a fine line. I know we don't want to be a bunch of wimps. I know it's not up to me what happens here and I don't have any right to control things or try to. Also I have to be able to take it if I want to dish it out. And, I know part of what started the Scott thing was a fair enough comment from a few people that he dropped references without explaining and he was fine with that. But I got pissed when you said I gush as if anything he said would be fantastic, like I dont understand anything, just like the big words or something. That is bitchy and small minded. And why did you make those comments? Because I confronted Jim about something? You are hiding behind your name. I am not. You just suddenly turned into NDYW whereas I have always been Jude-x. So do we have a dispute now? Probably not. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 11:52:00 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Judex Subject: Dumping? Message: Judex, You are really full of shit about me and when I get back here later this morning I'll tell you why. Stay tuned! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:00:50 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Judex Subject: Dumping? Message: Dear Judex, I have missed so much here over the last week or 2 but I am wondering what this means? You just suddenly turned into NDYW It isn't important just curious. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:07:28 (EST)
From: NDYW Email: None To: Judex Subject: Dumping? Message: And why did you make those comments I did it because you became predictable in your responses. Some one would challenge Scott and you would come running to his defense kinda like Pavlov's dog. We all do this. I find it amusing, usually, but sometimes it can be a bit tedious Just like in the above thread from Jim to you and Scott. As soon as I read your quote I said to myself ''uh oh, here comes Jim's new age cudgel and sure enough, blamo. I kinda like ''hiding behind a name'', although I do think I am being quite transparent and expect to be outed by someone at any time. (not Brian, of course) I guess ten people here can tell me why there is a ''taboo on shapeshifting''. But I don't agree or care. I find it fun and liberating to have an alter ego or two. Or ten for that matter. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:15:08 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: NDYW Subject: Shapeshifting Message: Hey NDYW, There isn't a taboo on shapeshifting, but us forum folks just prefer that people use the same name or pseudonym all the time. There is at least one other person who uses many other names. At least all yours are related to each other in some way (by the way, NDBB was cute.) What there IS a taboo on, and what Brian and I will delete posts for (and eventually block you for) is assuming another person's name or pseudonym. Also, violent threats will get you deleted and blocked, but you would never do anything like that, would you? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:33:24 (EST)
From: NDBB Email: None To: Katie Subject: Shapeshifting Message: Jim stated categorically that there is a taboo on shapeshifting. Maybe this is somehow different than assuming a new psuedonym, but I think it means the same thing. Maybe he means there is not a rule against it which would get one blocked, but it is some how poor form? Then that would be his opinion, which I would respect, but choose to believe differently. I don't recall threatening anyone on this forum, although I was very definitely threatened myself. But I guess the rules only apply to certain people and not others. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:38:21 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: NDBB Subject: Shapeshifting Message: Read the Forum Introduction, if you have not already - the 'rules' are on there. Jim didn't make them up. IMHO Jim meant that there was an unstated taboo on shapeshifting (e.g.'poor form). Also, how were you threatened, and by whom? Seriously, I want to know - it's important. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:56:44 (EST)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: NDYW Subject: to Indie Message: Hey Indie - I just realize that you probably can't answer my last question without outing yourself. I should have also made it very clear that we're talking about VIOLENT threats here. ('You're going to burn in hell for criticizing Maharaji' doesn't make the cut.) So e-mail one of us if you want to pursue this. Brian and I can't read all the posts. If you or someone else is receiving violent threats here, or if someone is appropriating your name or pseudonym, you have got to draw it to our attention so we can do something about it. Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:16:56 (EST)
From: Indie Email: None To: Katie Subject: The forum rules Message: If you wish to post anonymously, pick a pseudonym, and stick to it. This will prevent confusion, and help people get to know you. Well I guess I blew that one. It's just that my inner children (triplets, you know) are always competing for attention and in the spirit of fairness, I think they all should be allowed to speak. I gather this is a misdemeanor offense and not a felony resulting in being blocked? I'll talk it over with the kids see if I can make a deal to let one be the spokesman for all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:29:08 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Indie Subject: The forum rules! Message: And I thought this was going to be a complimentary post about how great the forum was - oh well... Anyway, re consistency of pseudonym: it's not really a rule, it's a strong suggestion. People disregard it all the time to make a point, etc. The pseudonyms that you've used so far are relatively OK because they are all related and thus recognizable (for example, no one jumps on Sir David for calling himself 25 variations on the word 'cheese'.) However, using one name as consistently as possible really helps keep people from getting confused (or any more confused than they are already). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:46:43 (EST)
From: The many faces of an Ex Email: None To: Katie Subject: The forum rules! Message: The forum is great! I started out posting as NDYW in a minor fit of pique and it snowballed from there. The problem is I posted here a while back using my own name and now I'm stuck! I'm sure some people know who this *really* is or at least could make a good guess. I was just trying to prove the case for reincarnation. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:55:11 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: NDBB Subject: Shapeshifting, the King Message: Interesting that Jim would claim shapeshifting is taboo! Jim is the king of the shapeshifters. Didn't you know that Jim is also CD? -z. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:39:30 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: John Subject: Shapeshifting, the King Message: Interesting that Jim would claim shapeshifting is taboo! Jim is the king of the shapeshifters. Didn't you know that Jim is also CD? -z. Oucch! No, Indie, I meant 'taboo' as in 'socially disrespected' as in 'please don't do it cause I don't like it anyway'. Don't you think it's rude to unnecessarily confuse people as to whom they're talking with? I do. The one time I inmpersonated Katie, CD, Mili and Anon (I rmemeber now), I thought it was obvious parody. I was going to turn myself in soon after anyway. Katie, Wha'ts so cute about 'NDBB'? I don't get it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:42:40 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jim Subject: Shapeshifting, the King Message: In the preceding post, you addressed him as 'Indie, baby', so he responded to your post as 'NDBB'. I thought it was funny, but what do I know? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 14:00:26 (EST)
From: NYPD Email: None To: Jim Subject: Shapeshifting, the King Message: Jim said: No, Indie, I meant 'taboo' as in 'socially disrespected' as in 'please don't do it cause I don't like it anyway'. Don't you think it's rude to unnecessarily confuse people as to whom they're talking with? I do. The one time I inmpersonated Katie, CD, Mili and Anon (I rmemeber now), I thought it was obvious parody. I was going to turn myself in soon after anyway. I don't think this is necessarily rude or confusing. There is a huge difference between impersonating someone and posting under a new name. You said 'please don't do it because I don't like it anyway.' Are you asking me to not do this? (use my psuedo) Is this a personal request? Just trying to clarify things here. Please don't pick on NDBB. It's my inner child. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 14:04:34 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: NYPD Subject: Shapeshifting, the King Message: Indie, First, it's not a big deal. It's a little deal. I just like to know who I'm reading and responding to. Don't you? Yes, if you like, for what it's worth, it's a personal request. Can you imagine if even as few as five or six people kept changing their names here? Bad!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 14:43:35 (EST)
From: David Helfgott Email: None To: Jim Subject: Shapeshifting Message: Can you imagine if even as few as five or six people kept changing their names here? Bad!! Very bad, yes bad, very very bad. bad bad bad. evil. downright evil. bad bad bad bad. Terrible. Shocking. horrible bad yes bad. Life's a mystery isn't it, Gilliam? mystery mystery mystery a complete mystery mystery misery masterly bad bad bad. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 00:43:10 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: David Helfgott Subject: Shapeshifting Message: Cool! Welcome and Shine on!! from Carol who sometimes becomes mona lisa because Carol is a bit uneasy about posting certain things! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 13:29:22 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: NYPD Subject: You copper you Message: Dear NYPD, (Gerry) I just noticed you must have seen my post. :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 20:45:22 (EST)
From: NDYW/GERRY Email: None To: Judex Subject: Dumping? Message: Judex, you perceptive and fiesty little thing you! That's tough moving all the time as a kid. What brought on the scapegoat story? So you felt I abused you, huh? Well sorry. I thought you might be in line for a little pinch yourself as you do dish it out quite well. No, we don't have a dispute here. I still think you're sweet on Scott, though. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 21:03:08 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: NDYW/GERRY Subject: INDIE GERRY!!! Message: Gerry - I NEVER SUSPECTED!!! And to think, we've been exchanging e-mail, I've been mediating, and all (you should HEAR what JW said about you!). This is funny as all get-out! I don't know WHAT to say! Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 00:45:06 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: Katie Subject: INDIE GERRY!!! Message: I did not know either! I just thought Gerry went away on a trip for awhile! Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 23:50:03 (EST)
From: Peter Email: None To: Katie Subject: INDIE JESTIN'!!! Message: He was just pulling your leg. Hope it didn't give you an upset stomach. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 21:55:48 (EST)
From: Indie Email: None To: NDYW/GERRY Subject: Dumping? Message: I'm also David Helfgott. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 00:46:32 (EST)
From: Carol Email: None To: Indie Subject: That, I knew! no text Message: n t Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 06:43:54 (EST)
From: Judex Email: None To: NDYW/GERRY Subject: to Gerry Message: That's tough moving all the time as a kid. What brought on the scapegoat story? So you felt I abused you, huh? Well sorry. I thought you might be in line for a little pinch yourself as you do dish it out quite well. No, we don't have a dispute here. I still think you're sweet on Scott, though. okay I bite. I'm trying to bite my lip and read everything and not post because I need to get a broader perspective on things and my daughter is with me and we jsut watched a funny show and someone in America has learnt how to photograph thoughts (no kidding) and my daughter has told me I should learn to be more tolerant. No I am not having a go at you, silly. I think you are a bit too smarty-pants for your own smarty-good if you get my drift. (that's not a threat by the way it is not even mockery it may be a bit patronizing but womenesses are aloud to do that arent' they? or is that sexist? the scapegoating and most of the stuff to Jim has mostly been about the way he has, for example, been talking to CD. Okay? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 11:30:17 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Judex Subject: CD Communication Project Message: the scapegoating and most of the stuff to Jim has mostly been about the way he has, for example, been talking to CD. Okay? Okay, I get it. Alright then, YOU talk to CD. Go on then, YOU talk to him, Judex. Come on, walk right over here to the 'CD Communication Project' and take a shot at it. No, really, I insist. Please, it's no problem at all. Come on, Judex, I'm serious. YOU try to talk with him. (Why not just start with something simple: 'hi Chris, how are you?'. Try that.) What's wrong? Chicken? Don't be. We're all just trying to learn from one another. Go on, give it a try. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Jun 26, 1998 at 11:57:01 (EST)
From: bftb Email: None To: whoever Subject: CD Communication Project Message: To the best of my knowledge I've not insulted anyone here.Certainly not intentionally and certainly not personally.I think it's sad when we get to that point and doesn't contribute anything to the discussion.(Although I suppose it helps the posters to vent,which can be healthy)On the rare occasion that I've been attacked (Mili blasted me right after my first post here)I have found myself smiling rather then getting angry.(Please don't get me wrong-I can and do get very angry,just not here,although I'm sure I could lose it here as well)That being said,I have to admit that CD has actually frustrated me in the past.I can remember once asking him honestly why he posts the way he often did,whether or not he was intentionally trying to frustrate people and I never really understood an answer.I can't second guess people(just song lyrics)so if he didn't want to explain then so be it.I moved on and at this point I don't care what his strategy is or isn't. For the relative newcomers here who've not followed this thread from the old days in alt.support.ex-cult,I don't think you had the opportunity to see those discussions unfold so you may not understand the level of frustration that some people feel re: CD's method of communication.The frustration is there in great part because we know that CD is intelligent(and a pretty damn nice person as well)so it's tough to figure out his posting style in light of the fact that he seems like a real good guy.Like;why would he want to frustrate?Well....he won't say if he tries to or not so I gave up guessing.Now I just read his posts if I'm feeling at all curious about the latest M merchandise he's purchased. I guess what I'm trying to say is sometimes what looks mean really isn't but you can't know that unless you have the whole picture. Peace all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 15:07:44 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Judex Subject: Grumping? Message: Judex, Judex, Judex, What are we gonna do with you? Okay, from your earlier post: ever since I have been here Jim has been attacking people who do not share his beliefs and quizzing them, slicing them up verbally and demanding they answer each point he raises, plus abusing them, their right to exist, their mental health and their whole being. Plus he continually uses words like 'fat' which to me a re very offensive, because my daughter is 'fat'. How about that, Jim. Did you ever think while you were throwing your bullets where they would land? 1) Attacking people who don't share my beliefs - I attack ideas I don't like. If people choose to throw their personalities in the way to shield those ideas, then I attack them. No apologies. 2) Quizzing Yes, I never really realized I did this before. Thanks so much. 3) Slicing them up verbally 'Paring down the bullshit' might be another way to put it, sis. Tell me, what do YOU say to red heart or premieji these days? 4) Demanding they answer each point I raise Cruel isn't it? No, that's called argument or debate. Go get a book -- froma DIFFERENT shelf, I'd suggest. 5) abusing them Ah, the 'a' word! I think the cult mentality is sick and I say that. If that's abusive, I'm guilty. 6) ... their right to exist Come on, Judex, this is preposterous. If you've got any evidence of this, I'd love to hear it. 7) ... their mental health Hey, look who's talking!? 8) ... their whole being Nonsense. See 6. 9) fat We were tricked into worshipping Maharaji's form. His form, with all its imperfections, is thus fair game for comment. This has nothing to do with your daughter, so why in the world do you mention her? In that same thread you also said this: Ok Jim I can't let you get away with this any longer. How many ways does someone have to offer you some insight? Could you suspend your judgements for even one minute - I care about you Jim because I think a long time passed between the shock and hurt you received from Maharaji and the time when you talked abuot it and got some healing. Therefore I think you must have a very tight knot of fear and pain which has been there a long time. But look at it like this. You are waiting for Maharaji to apologize, to admit that he hurt you and it is his fault for saying he wwas the Lord of the Universe to you. And yes there was an unequal power relationship like parent/child. And yet, until you own that it was you who believed him, you won't be free. The part of you that loved and believed him is the part that has a great capacity for live, compassion and lots of good things. It is your innocence, your 'heart', the place where new growth happens inside. That's what I beleive. WHile you keep him being the Persecutor you willl stay the victim and you are trapped there. One day when a child grows up they may forgive their parent. Because hteir parent was not perfect, even though the child believed they were god (and needed to ). Even though the parent knew they were not god, they did their best (for whatever reason - it doesn't really matter but don't take it out of context). I jsut want to get on with the central argument. Unfortuantley the process of growing up involves a hurt to the 'magical child' where innocence is lost. It may even be the parent who inflicts the wound (unintentionally). Because life is like that. We all carry a wound. we all long for our lost innocence. But life wounds us, and often the one we love the most does it. That's all I want to say right now. First, you're wrong, I talked about Maharaji all the way through, as I started leaving and continually 'til this day. The net has jsut given me more info, a platform to perhaps give him some feedback and access to some like-minded and not-so-like-minded folk. So your premise is all wrong. Why didn't you look before leaping? Also, as I said earlier, I'm not waiting for Maharaji to apologize in the sense that I actually expect that to happen. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. Don't tell me what I'm thinking, please. You're way off in any event. As for the parents analogy, it would fit beautifully IF Maharaji were now a retired guru who reached out to his former followers for some forgiveness and some, maybe I, refused to bend. That's not the case here at all. Get real. By thew ay, I just got my new issue of Skeptic Magazine inthe mail. Why not go buy yourself a copy and do some GOOD reading for a change? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 16:18:40 (EST)
From: Carol Email: coopmtncarol@hotmail.com To: Judex Subject: Dumping? Not at all... Message: Judex, We who face these heavy issues here in this forum are involved in a whole new kind of group dynamic and therapy. There is a risk in opening raw wounds without the mediation by an understanding and highly skilled therapist. (I can only hope that nothing I said causes more upheaval than anyone can handle.) I think many of us are brave, including you and me, to put ourselves 'on the line' and on the internet, of all places to do our processing. This has been very valuable to me. But if it becomes like therapy to anyone and brings out feelings of terrible pain or depression, than I hope that the person has other support and is able to recognize the need for it and ask for it. If a professional is unavailable, I think that many friends can serve as therapists to eachother, and many people here are communicating to eachother more privately. I welcome the opportunity to provide understanding support to others. I am really doing very well for myself right now. I hope you are OK too! And everyone else who is in on this with us! Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 05:16:22 (EST)
From: seymour Email: seymour_t@rocketmail.com To: Carol Subject: Dumping? Not at all... Message: 'without the mediation by an understanding and highly skilled therapist' Carol, I cannot believe that such a person really exists. The best advice is from those who have known us for many years rather than the so-called 'professionals'. Remember that GM is a professional Guru. Cheers Seymour Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 08:44:56 (EST)
From: Becky Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Tax evasion Message: A friend of mine said M has been in jail for tax evasion. Is this true or is my friend getting confused with someone else? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 09:49:53 (EST)
From: PremieJi Email: None To: Becky Subject: Tax evasion Message: Dear Becky, Sure M's been in jail for tax evasion. He also deals drugs, got his poor mom locked up by the LA police, stole his brother's rightful place as the Guru, beats his wife, intimidates his friends, has links with the Mafiosa, has mistresses all over the world, a mansion in every port, spends all his time squandering the billions of dollars raised by poorly fed slaves, caused the demise of 50% of the 70's premie population......and wait for it, does all this with only a grade 8 education. Now, ain't that a shocker! You'll hear it all and more on this channel. Stay tuned for the gossip That what its all about. Regards, premieJi. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 12:30:39 (EST)
From: Becky Email: None To: PremieJi Subject: Tax evasion Message: Chill out, I never said he did. As i've said before, each to our own etc. nothing wrong with asking questions etc. etc. nothing wrong with the mind, with thought - given to us by the creator to use in the best way we can Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 13:50:20 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Becky Subject: Tax evasion Message: Becky, I think a fuller answer might be 'no, not yet anyway'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Jun 25, 1998 at 10:35:41 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Becky Subject: Tax evasion Message: Hi Becky - Your friend is getting M confused with someone else, but I'm not exactly sure who. I think it's the Reverend Sun Myung Moon. JW will know - he is really up on current events! P.S. to Premie-ji. Why couldn't you just give her a straight answer? She asked an honest question. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |