Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 2 | |
From: Apr 9, 1998 |
To: Apr 16, 1998 |
Page: 2 Of: 5 |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 17:56:45 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Avatar Wanted: Apply Within Message: So, apparently, yet another fake Hindu Love God has bitten the dust. This time, it's that funny white guy with the 'fro, Rama: (AP) Frederick P. Lenz III, a best-selling author who packaged Eastern philosophies for a '90s audience but was accused of operating a cult, was found dead Monday in a bay adjoining his $2 million Long Island compound. He was 48. Police said Lenz may have died of a drug overdose or accidental drowning. An autopsy was pending. 'It appears he fell into the water from a floating pier, but the circumstances leading up to that are still unclear,' Detective Lt. John Gierasch of the Suffolk County homicide squad said. A pier railing was bent or broken and police divers recovered the body from Conscience Bay on Monday morning in 20 feet of water. An incoherent New York woman, identified by authorities only as an acquaintance of Lenz, was found in the house. Lenz's novel 'Surfing the Himalayas,' which related snowboarding adventures and outlined Lenz's spiritual philosophy, reached No. 11 on the best-seller lists in 1995. He followed it up in 1996 with 'Snowboarding to Nirvana' and was at work on a third book, according to St. Martin's Press editor Jim Fitzgerald. The self-proclaimed guru also gave high-priced computer science seminars and founded a company called Advanced Systems Inc. He was on New York magazine's list of the '100 Smartest New Yorkers' in 1995. But Lenz, who called himself Zen Master Rama, drew criticism from cult-watch groups in the 1980s after he announced that he was the incarnation of a Hindu deity. At the time, he led a nomadic California commune of about 300 followers. Some parents and former students accused him of manipulation and sexual exploitation of followers. He dismissed the criticism, saying some women followers had consensual relationships with him and then grew vindictive when he broke off the relationships. Other students credited him with leading them to lucrative careers. In 'Surfing the Himalayas,' the Buddhist monk 'Master Fwap' advises: 'Once you are enlightened, you can do whatever you want without fear or sorrow. You can choose to have a career or live in a monastery; you can go snowboarding, get married, stay single, be rich and famous, or live unknown.' Interviewed by The Washington Post for a story published in 1996, he described himself as a Buddhist but said he had no interest in the ascetic lifestyle of many traditional Buddhist. He dated followers, had a Mercedes 600 and paid nearly $1 million apiece for homes in New York and New Mexico, the newspaper said. Lenz was the son of the onetime mayor of Stamford, Conn., and received a doctorate in English from the State University at Stony Brook, N.Y., in 1978. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 18:49:56 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jim Subject: Avatar Wanted: Apply Within Message: I believe Dateline did a story on this guy, a year or two ago. He claimed several big corporations as his clients and Dateline uncovered it was a lie. They showed his devotees, and they were highly intelligent and educated. I don't think he claimed to be God, though. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 00:02:29 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jim Subject: Avatar Wanted: Apply Within Message: Jim: Is this the skinny guy that is on UHF giving discourses about spiritual stuff to a small crowd every week? He sounds very intellectual and know-it-all, but of course if it was all as obvious as he makes out why didn't Kant get it? For that matter, why didn't my friend Ben's golden retriever 'Aspen' get it? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 00:10:26 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Avatar Wanted: Apply Within Message: I don't know if it's the same guy (search for Rama, he's all over). But I think Aspen DID get it. He was over here a few weeks ago and, Scott, he's not the same dog at all! One look in his eyes and I knew he 'knew'. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 04:13:15 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Everyone Subject: My testimony..14 Message: Too much content to respond to. But I will say that after reading more posts(involving all political parties) , I am disappointed by the low quality of the comments made by most ex's. Never-the-less I must thank this ex-premie site for providing me with otherwise banned material. For example, the 'instuctors manual'. It's so very curious.....the very imformation that is intended to further show how deluded and evil M is actually only increases my trust and respect for him. The instuctors manual , (written by M himself supposedly) seems very psychologically sound. Sure there are aspects that I would question, but over-all....it's a sound document. Nothing sinister! What does seem to be a flaw is that too many people who could compliment M seem to be unused. Especially perhaps those who are not 'yes' people ...but who would exercise some dynamic creativity of their own......but having said this I feel it is somehow overlooked in all these debates or whatevers.....that no system or social structure is flawless. Last point.....the argument-debates that go on here are really quite petty , in that I have my own experience and understanding ......as do we all .....so what right does an ex-premie have in projecting a distorted view onto others? It is many ex-premies who sound like lords of the universe. It's so pathetic....to be judge and jury in the way Guru Jimji behaves....and his merry band of cohorts. It is the ex's who sound more like a cult. An anti-cult cult! Are there no heros out there willing to stand in the space of uncertainty? Do ex's really know what they are talking about. I think not.....for they are altogether too arrogant, self-righteous and ....here it comes.....full of inflated bullshit! For me M has never said other than the divine is within everyone , including my dog and my goldfish, and My understanding is that what M most desires of me is that I stand free and enjoy this life. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 08:24:21 (EDT)
From: Anon Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Regarding your opinion. Message: It is many ex-premies who sound like lords of the universe. It's so pathetic....to be judge and jury in the way Guru Jimji behaves....and his merry band of cohorts. It is the ex's who sound more like a cult. An anti-cult cult! Are there no heros out there willing to stand in the space of uncertainty? Do ex's really know what they are talking about. I think not.....for they are altogether too arrogant,self-righteous and ....here it comes.....full of inflated bullshit! Vacol, You are entitled to your opinion but I think you mistaken to so harshly judge those who post here. This website, despite its outright 'anti-Maharaji' tone, is visited and contributed to by a number of extremely sincere and open-minded people who may quite rightfully object to being labelled as 'ex's'; especially considering your derogatory description of that 'new category' and your blustering attempt to tar all with the same black brush. What you most bizarrly seem to overlook (and give no credit for) is that the some of Maharaji's most vociferous opponents or critics have already been through, at length, that stage (that you are obviously at) of giving Maharaji some benefit of the doubt, faith and gratitude etc. The fact that you are unable to grasp that they may have since abandoned that generosity of attitude because of their subsequent experiences and their soul-searching efforts to discern some truth from them, suggests that you yourself are the one, above all, who is guilty of making rash judgements about people whose motives you know little of. I am responding to your post because I strongly disagree with your judgements that people who post here don't know what they are talking about and are projecting a distorted view onto others. Your notion that ex-premies cannot know what they are talking about because they are..altogether too arrogant, self-righteous and ....here it comes.....full of inflated bullshit! makes no sense. Furthermore I have plenty of first hand experience that corrobrates what I have heard. All I imagine is that you have come in recently on the discussions here (after they have beeen going for over a year) and are basing your hasty conclusions on reading only a few recent posts. Don't kid yourself that you have engaged in enough dialogue here that your dismissals of the forum participants are based on well-considered judgements. Quite to the contrary, your conclusions smack of being drawn with little balanced forethought and with considerable over emotional reaction. Never mind..I concede that it's probably fairly overwhelming for you to enter the arena of debate at such a heated level. I think you need some time to digest things. As for: Are there no heros out there willing to stand in the space of uncertainty? Don't worry. You don't have to be a hero to do this old chap. Read my 'Journey' entry on this website and you will see that I myself (as no hero) have been lingering in uncertainty for my whole life and will doubtless continue to honestly do so. Is it not premies above all, who are the ones who again and again claim to have such a certain knowledge of the true purpose of this life? You my friend need to rethink things. Why not take a break from this website and go and really commit yourself to searching for the truth of the matter? I have spent 24 years around Maharaji and have purposefully sought to be around him as much as possible to glean as much inspiration and truth as I can. My experiences have led me to the point where I feel it is integral and appropriate for me to express some criticisms. That you should write of my sincere and considered reactions to what I have seen, felt and heard over the years, as being 'inflated bullshit' is not entirely unpredictable. You are unsympathetic because you are full of your own concepts of how informed or sincerely spiritual people should express themselves. Your perceived 'low quality of the comments' is probably because you have no experience of the truth of these comments for yourself. So the comments have no resonance with you. Even though I am sure you flatter yourself that you are capable of listening impartially and sympathetically to the views of others it appears that you are not. You seem to be thrown into a spin of dismissive judgements if people express themseleves in tones of bitterness or anger. These are apparently sentiments that are unacceptable to you, who seem to labour under the delusion that a point has to be put in a certain way to be valid. You need to see for yourself what has driven people to question and even vehemently oppose Maharaji's actions. The only way you can do that, it would seem, is to immerse yourself in serving M, practising Knowledge, and spending as much time as you can around M personally. In short, like I feel I have done. You are not ready to be disillusioned yet! You have no personal experience of regret so how can you fully appreciate that of others? (Unless of course you are a truly kind and considerate person) Having said all that I must however add that I hope that, in your personal dedication and search for truth, you are spared from making any commitments or experiences that you later regret. I would not wish upon you the misery that I have felt at times. I think Maharaji has made it a lot less likely for you to suffer in the same way nowadays. There are only a few things left that indicate that all may not be quite above-board. The clues are there. Nobody is going to force you to look. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 09:06:43 (EDT)
From: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Vacol Subject: Read this Vacol Message: What would you think of a person who led you to believe that he was the God you had been praying to all these years. And then you realised that he had deceived you for his own self interest? My reaction upon realising that I had been deceived in this way was one of pure, unadulterated anger which thankfully turned to sadness and then to philosophical acceptance. If you've never been fucked around with in this way then you can't begin to understand what it feels like. But here's what I wrote on the night that I finally realised the enormaty of how I'd been misled: For those of us who gave our hearts, For those of us who tried Sincerely to devote ourselves, Believing that he was the Lord. For those who wept the tears of love For one we saw as God, For those of us who wanted To tear out our very heart And place it at his lotus feet Because he was the perfect one, Most radiant, most blessed God of Love in human form. For us, there is an empty space, A shattered dream to come. Where is our Lord this darkened night? Where fall His footsteps in our world, What hope our friends to give? Pray God please help us all. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 11:36:33 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Time to go Message: Kieth, I agree with both David and Anon. David's message is so simple and straight-forward, too bad you can't deal with it as such. Anon has gone to great lengths to describe your predicament so much better than you yourself can see. Yet, I doubt that you will be able to see that either. Kieth, you've attracted a lot of attention here with your pompously titled series of posts. But, I've got to tell you, I agree with Anon. I think you're not doing yourself or anyone else any good posting here right now. Look, you don't want to turn into another Mili do you? Unable to sustain a single conversation or defend a single statement, just shooting immature unfocused and, ultiamtely, laughable barbs at people? I think you should take off for a whiel and simply think about things. That's got to be best. If you're interested in defending Maharaji, you should know you're not really pulling it off with statements such as you 'reject his claim to be Perfect Master categorically'. If you ever get anywhere near him and he knows who you are, Mr. Simons, you can expect to answer for that, I'm sure. Maybe you should just go and meditate for a while, watch a few videos and write him a long apology. I'm absolutely unimpressed with you at this point. You seem to be both a little thick and a lot arrogant. I've come to see that crippled mentality as a function of your cult status and not necessarily your native intelligence or personality. Nonetheless, that's how you ARE at this point in your life and it's not pretty. So whqt do you say? Why not just take off for a while? Look, you were all hot and bothered to 'debate' and you obviously weren't able to do that. Yet, you still post away your empty 'testimonials'. Why? Are you having fun getting a rise out of so many strangers? Your beloved guru sure doesn't want you enjoying yourself -- however pathetically -- at his expense. I, for one, am about ready to just stop responding to you. Why not leave on better terms? Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 12:44:17 (EDT)
From: Detlev Email: klockow@aol.com To: Vacol Subject: My testimony..14 Message: Hi Vacol, I feel the same regarding the second and the last sentence in your comment. By the way - where do I find the instructors manual. regards, Detlev Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 15:27:41 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Detlev Subject: Instructor's Manual link Message: By the way - where do I find the instructors manual. Hidden on the site map [grin]. Or here. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 17:33:02 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Detlev Subject: My testimony..14 Message: Those two sentences you agree with, then, are: But I will say that after reading more posts(involving all political parties) , I am disappointed by the low quality of the comments made by most ex's. and: For me M has never said other than the divine is within everyone , including my dog and my goldfish, and My understanding is that what M most desires of me is that I stand free and enjoy this life. So, Detlev, I wonder if you'd elucidate. What's the 'low quality' you're faulting? And, if you honestly believe that last statement, how do you deal with the numerous quotes already posted here wherein M has claimed to be a tad more divine than you and me? Like for example: Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. or: 1)Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? 2)Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. 3)I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 17:34:10 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Don't say it, Katie Message: Yes, yes, I broke my HTML. Shit, what a nuisance, huh? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 17:37:43 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Jim Subject: Don't say it, Katie Message: Actually, it's not obvious, Jim. Besides, I just pick on you 'cause I know you can take it... (I broke mine the other day too.) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 09:48:31 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: Say it, Katie Message: Good morning Katie, What is a broken Html? Is it when you don't have an ending tag? That is all I can come up with in my tanning bulb fried mind! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 11:07:38 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Say it, Katie Message: Hi Robyn - you are exactly right. Brian has to fix these when they get archived, or they spill into the next messages, etc. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 09:54:11 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jim Subject: Don't say it, Katie Message: Jim: I use a macro in Word that automatically places the html in the right place, and closes it--one for italics and another for bold. They are very simple. I can send them to you via email if writing macros is not on your resume. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 10:31:55 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Please Scott, do Message: Scott, That's a great idea! No, I've never written a macro in my life (although I did receive the Knowledge of God when I was only 19!) So, tell me, how do you use Word to post? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 10:46:45 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Jim Subject: Please Scott, do Message: Jim: I usually type everything out in Word first, using macros with hot keys for the html, and another to get rid of hard returns on material quoted from the previous post. After I do the spell check I then copy and paste to the little teeny box, just dumping everything in. Seems to work OK. I'll scrounge up the three macros I use and send them to you. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 10:55:52 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: heller@bc1.com To: Scott T. Subject: Thanks Message: Thanks, Scott. By the way, can you send me a control that stops me from reading Petrou? It could be hardware or a drug. Anything. I can't take it. I'm losing it. It's like talking with a real live DEVO. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 13:11:45 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Vacol Subject: My testimony..14 Message: Vacol, if you ever come down from the lofty heights of spirtual ego, you might be able to have a discussion, instead of just dismissing those who comment on your pompous posts as 'too much content.' But in the meantime, you just retreat into your own world merely dismissing all dissenting viewpoints. Unfortunately, this is behaviour I have seen many times, and behaviour I engaged in for a good 10 years while following M. But even if you don't post, Vacol, keep reading. As time goes on, it's likely that you will hear words and see behavior of and around Maharaji that reflect what you've heard nere, and notice your own thoughts working in ways that might make what you've read here make some sense to you. Just give it time. No one here, that I have seen, has 'projected' their views on you, but you also seem to be engaging in accusations than sound like the pot calling the kettle black, stating that all exs views are 'distorted,' 'petty' and of 'low quality.' Exs have disagreed with your views, based on their own experiences with the subject matter. But maybe the discussion isn't 'spiritual' enough to meet your standards. Excuse me if I am not impressed by your standards. And I know you believe Maharaji is beyond being 'judged' by ANY 'jury,' but if he isn't really beyond that, and should actually be held to the standards expected of all the rest of humanity, who better to 'judge' him and what he's said and done, than those who followed his directions for years and sincerely believed and had faith in him? Surely there are no more qualified 'judges.' And for you to say that 'M has never said other than the divine is within everyone' is a flat-out lie and you know it. He's claimed to be god, the perfect master, and demanded devotion and surrender to him. He's been recorded in film, video and in print saying so. Thousands have heard him say it. If nothing else, ex-premies exist just to testify to those facts, which many premies choose to ignore, pretend don't exist, to choose to discount because Maharaji is beyond any accountability and Maharaji himself attempts to cover up. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 13:33:08 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Vacol Subject: My testimony..14 Message: Dear Vacol - I have to say that I was quite disappointed when I read some of the judgemental statements generalizing about ex-premies in your latest post. Although Anon and David expressed themselves more eloquently that I ever could, I do want to add that I don't believe all ex-premies think, speak and act alike, as you seem to think. The ex-premies have many different viewpoints about life in general and their experiences with Maharaji in particular. (We are also not all followers of Jim, as you imply!). Several people have complained about the 'quality' of the discussion on this site, as you did. I am not sure what you mean by that - are the discussions too negative, too frivolous, or what? I personally like the joking and off-topic discussions and have actually engaged in them with some of the premies who post on the site. I also have gotten a lot out of talking about my experiences as a follower of M. Even though it was 20 years ago and apparently irrelevant to many current premies, it is not irrelevant to me. I would suggest that if you or other people want to have 'higher quality' (or perhaps different subject matter) discussions on the site, then you should initiate these discussions. I have found that this can be done by asking questions (not rhetorical ones) and genuinely trying to interact with people on the site. I have found your 'testimonies' to be somewhat close-ended - I don't mind reading them, but I don't feel that there is really anything for me to reply to in them, or that you are even asking for a reply. Regards from Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 13:47:39 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: My testimony..14 Message: Dear Katie, Hi, girl. For someone who doesn't have much 'contend' in her posts I'd say this one was a doozy! It is the nature of the forum to ebb and flow in serious disscussion, negativity, humor, rolling on the floor humor, and premie speak. I'm learning to 'ride the waves' and am finding that to be very good for me. I resist the name calling but realize now that I need to 'get tuff'. I really can't comment intelligently on Valco/Keith's ? posts as I just gleam them quickly focusing more on the responses. I'm in that mode lately. Not much time lately to be here. I do worship Jim though. I've built an altar with a law book instead of a picture though Jim, don't you think you should have a few framed and for sale. Take care kids, I'm off to tan! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 14:05:29 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Robyn Subject: To Robyn Message: Hey girl - hope you had a good weekend off. Just thought I'd mention that I don't and never have worshipped Jim (but I do respect your belief in him.) My personal altar is dedicated to Brian (the REAL Brian, that is: Shri Webmaster, Lord of Ex-Premie.Org). Unfortunately there are no pictures of Brian that exist in the real world, so I use my PC monitor as a substitute. Take care, Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 14:15:10 (EDT)
From: The Frivolity Police Email: None To: Robyn Subject: For Shame Robyn! Message: Robyn: You're going to tan?! Why, dear girl, how perfectly frivolous of you! Don't you know that we are here to compose (and count) our testimonies about weighty, serious matters and not to mention frivolities like 'tanning'. Good gracious, what is the world coming to! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 15:25:16 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: The Frivolity Police Subject: For Shame Robyn! Message: Dear Friv, Hey I made the count so who are you to judge, eh? Look at yourself you won't even chastize me with your real name. If I understand this correctly it is quantity not quality, look Katie got an award and has little to no content. At least at the next awards ceremony I'll look good! I was off the forum for a bit and have a lot of posts to make up! Admitedly Frivolous Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 17:40:51 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Robyn Subject: Girls just wanna have fun... Message: Dear Friv. Pol. - Robyn and I have decided to be bad influences on each other and compete for who can make the most postings with absolutely NO content. That's what y'all get for letting women on your forum. Remember what Sri Ramakrishna said about 'women and gold' being the two biggest distractions from the spiritual life! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 22:16:19 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Katie Subject: Girls just wanna have fun... Message: I was told that girls were bad for one's sports ability! Hi, Robyn! I just got back from the gym and a hot tub. Indulging in life, VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 09:52:53 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: VP Subject: Girls just wanna have fun... Message: Dear VP and Katie, VP, I have to be satisfied with the gym and hot tub in my mind because I can't do them during my lunch hour! I hope you aren't meeting GIRLS, at that gym now Mister! Katie, we can only do our best to bring a bit of grounding to these guys here on the forum. It's a tuff job but I think we are up for the challenge! I think I had a bit of content in one of my posts today though, Sorry. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 12:59:55 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Girls just wanna have fun... Message: Dear VP, Katie, and Robyn, I signed up for a class called 'Spinning'--thought maybe we'd be doing some whirling dervish aerobic exercise. Turns out we're on stationary bikes riding like hell and expending 1000 calories an hour. This is fun? ugh. At least I'll be ready for my new bikini by summer. (That's a joke). eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 13:27:35 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: eb Subject: Girls just wanna have fun... Message: Dear eb, When I read about your bicycling class I had to laugh. Have you seen the Saturday Night Live skit with that fat comedian who just died recently, I feel so bad I can't remember his name. He is homless, living in his van by the river and he does different things to make money, he was a motivational counselor and a stationary bike class instructor! Or the beer ad when all the guys are so motivated on their stationary bikes and then they show the big beer truck they all, what, think they will get to if they ride fast enough, I don't know but I think you should rebell and break free to ride in the lovely spring air! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 14:32:59 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Girls just wanna have fun... Message: Dear Robyn, Chris Farley. I never actually saw him on Saturday Night Live because that's way past my bedtime. But I did love John Belushi and went into shock when he died. Haven't recovered yet. Regarding bikes: I know Scott T. is quite a cyclist, and it sounds as though you're into it too. My problem is balance. Everytime I get on a bike, I fall off. I can't even take step aerobics classes because I've almost broken my neck twice on those blasted steps. I was trained in Modern Dance--had a teacher from Russia who smoked a lot and yelled at us. I even taught classes for awhile. But I have the worst balance and have to stay firmly on the ground lest I fly off into the light. Must be an inner ear problem. eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 14:36:29 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: eb Subject: Girls just wanna have fun... Message: Hi eb - I have an inner ear problem too. I can stay on a bike, but don't dare ride in any kind of traffic - or around other bikes - because I might fall. So I've given up cycling. My ear problem was caused by having measles as a child (remember the good old days when they used to just let us catch all the childhood diseases so we'd be immune to them?) I think riding a stationary bike has got to be one of the most boring exercises of all time. It makes a Nordic Trak or Stair Master look fun! Hope it's OK for you. Maybe it's easier when you're in a class. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 15:03:04 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Katie Subject: Girls just wanna have fun... Message: Hi Katie, I agree-stationary bikes are very boring. The class is only twice a week for 9 weeks, so I think I can stick with it. I may attempt riding outside again because my 7-year old has recently learned to ride. He and my husband take off on Sunday mornings and they're gone for hours. It took me a long time to allow the 7-year old to learn to ride because my son who is 17 was hit by a car when he was 11 and almost died. Very heavy experience. I haven't been the same since. Well, on a lighter note, I'm off to sign the papers to refinance our house. In the spirit of fun, eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 16:21:12 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: eb Subject: Daddy Seeking Advice Message: Eb: I have an 8yr old daughter, Stella, and she is having the hardest time learning to ride a bike. You said you have some inner ear problem, and that's why you can't keep your balance? Does that manifest in other ways, like do you have problems walking a straight line? I'm wondering if maybe that's why Stella is finding it so impossible, though she is a normal active child who has not exhibited any problems with her balance. I'm actually kind of glad about her problems riding bikes, just because it seems so dangerous to ride a bike in a city. Our city is very unenlightened when it comes to bikes, there are no bike lanes in the roads. But it also seems like a skill she should learn, if you know what I mean. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 17:02:56 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: John K. Subject: Daddy Seeking Advice Message: Hi John - I also posted about having an inner-ear problem. I've never been diagnosed with one, but some doctors have postulated that that is what is wrong with me. They think it came from having measles when I was four or five. I couldn't ride a bike until I was ten, and still have problems. I also couldn't skip, jump rope, or ice-skate without falling down. As I've gotten older, I have developed 'learned' balance to compensate, but every once in a while I just fall on my face. I can ice-skate now though, and I can even jump rope! I have a hard time walking a straight line (for example, walking on railroad tracks is very difficult for me.) My 8 year old niece has something else called 'low tone' (it's not muscle tone), and she can't ride a bike either. (They discovered that she has this 'low tone' condition in school.) Hope this helps. I think it's really important for the kid to feel that it's OK not to be able to learn to ride a bike. My mother used to tease me unmercifully about it and it hurt a lot. I agree that it's a good skill to have, but definitely not essential. Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 17:32:56 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Katie Subject: Daddy Seeking Advice Message: Actually Stella has a hard time on skates also. Low tone? Is that a low tone heard in the ear? Maybe I'll ask a doctor the next time I see one. She's had hearing tests at school and everything was correct. thanks for the info! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:08:57 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: John Subject: Daddy Seeking Advice Message: John, I don't know much about 'low tone', except that I think that it is a muscular problem, but the phrase doesn't refer to low muscle tone. It's also something that they either didn't diagnose for or know about when I was a kid. Jenny was diagnosed with it at school - it's some kind of disability I think. I have asked some teachers that I know if they have heard of it and a lot of them have. My niece fell down a lot when she was a baby, can't do sit-ups, has major problems with gymnastics, bike-riding and so forth. But she is strong, a good swimmer, and generally appears to be OK. [Since I had similar problems I discuss this with my sis a lot - I think it's really important to keep kids like this out of situations where they'll be forced to participate in competitive sports (and made fun of)]. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:33:58 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: John K. Subject: Daddy Seeking Advice Message: Hi John K. It still blows my mind when I see or hear of daddy's being concerned about their kids because my dad was so cold. I guess It shouldn't surprise me so much anymore; I've seen many examples of good fathering. But it still gets me. Regarding your question, I haven't a clue. Katie's response was good. I would check with a doctor. I have a post-adolescent daughter (whose picture I will not be posting here anytime soon, Jim) who had a terrible time doing anything physical when she was younger. She'd fall out of her chair in school, trip while walking, step on peoples' feet, etc. But she could ride a bike! She tested as borderline ADHD--pretty much drove me nuts. High I.Q. Had more energy than 3 kids put together. Since she turned 13, she flip-flopped. My other daughter calls her borderline lethargic. She's the quintessential teenager, totally vegetarian, and extremely rebellious. Raising this child has been challenging, but I really like her. We get along fairly well, all things considered. Good luck, eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 19:56:25 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: eb Subject: from one mom of teenagers Message: Dear eb, Reading your post put me in mind of a book my older daughter gave me about raising teenage girls. It has given me great perspective with Jade and I WISH I had it while Jessica was home! And no pictures of them for you either Jim! I can't remember the author but it is: Reviving Ophillia all you spelling bee trophy winners excuse the spelling I just feel like writing this long explaination more than finding out the correct spelling. Hope you can read it and that it helps. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:02:37 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Reviving Ophelia Message: I agree with Robyn - this book is great for anyone who has female children (of any age), and just anyone in general. I don't have children but I read it anyway, and it really helped ME deal with some issues from when I was a teenager. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:24:55 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: You guys are sick! Message: Reading your posts, girls, I get the distinct idea that you think I wanted those pictures for some sort of perverse or sexual purpose. I can't believe it. I am SO hurt. Mili and I were just going to put together a little netzine for spiritually sophisticated spiritual intellectuals and we wanted to be able to show the world what good premie stock looks like, that's all. (Watch it Mili -- I know you are but what am I?). Like, you know, you act as if it's weird or something! Oh well, talk about misunderstanding.... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 21:52:57 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Jim Subject: You guys are sick! Message: Jim, I was going to respond to your previous request for a picture by inquiring about the quotations to which you alluded. I got sidetracked on the teenage-girl topic (BTW, we have read Reviving Ophelia and discussed it in-depth. It is excellent). So your interest in the forum girls' appearances is far from prurient. Would it change your attitude toward my posts if I were to show you how beautiful I am? In the spirit of fun, eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 22:57:58 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: eb Subject: Beauty is in the heart Message: How disspiriting to learn how worldly some of my fellow ex's have become. Dear eb, if you must show me how beautiful you are, and I'm sure you're talking of your heart and everywhere else, please email me accordingly. But alas, these waery mortal eyes have seen so much. It's only the heart within inside that can have that love, that experience. Still, if you must.... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 00:12:33 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Jim Subject: Beauty is in the heart Message: Ah Jim, Thou hast opened mine eyes to the truth: While seeking the ultimate beauty without outside, I failed to look within inside where true love resides. And only the heart can recognize that beauty, that love. But alas, where is the demarcation between myself and those externalities? Are we not one in the glorious gestalt? And why am I spending all this money on wrinkle creams and aerobic dance classes? And consider the lilies of the field... hey wait a minute--wrong cult. I have no scanner with which to send a picture. Yours in jest, eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:15:16 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: eb Subject: Eb, you're showing talent! Message: 'without outside', I love it! Eb, there's a future for you also on the comedy club circuit. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:45:59 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: John Subject: Eb can be VERY funny! Message: I agree, John. I think eb has been hiding her talent for hilarious and witty posts under a bushel (if that's not a mixed metaphor). Look forward to more. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 09:51:08 (EDT)
From: John Email: None To: Katie Subject: Sorry, corny! Message: yeah, under a bushel of corn! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:33:59 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: Reviving Ophelia Message: Dear Katie, Glad it helped you, I didn't think of it that way. I'll have to read it again. Maybe things hit me about my childhood but I don't remember now. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 20:53:57 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: John K. Subject: Learned to ride at 8 Message: John, I didn't learn to ride a bike or swim until I was 8 and had the hardest time learning. The pediatrician told my mother that it would have been easier for me to learn earlier ( by 5 or 6). Incidentally, the same thing happened with swimming. (I didn't learn until I was about 10 and it was more difficult.) I did get very good at both, it just took longer. I have taught both of my children to ride at a younger age and they both caught on very fast. I don't know if it is physical or if it has something to do with being fearful, it may be a little bit of both. I wouldn't worry too much. If she wants it, she will learn :) VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 23:35:12 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: VP Subject: Learning to ride Message: Hi: My sisters both had a terrible time learning to ride a bike... mostly because I kept throwing large bulky objects under the wheels. Once my parents jailed me their problems disappeared. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 00:33:57 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Learning to ride Message: And to think I almost didn't read this post due to the incredibly uninteresting theme this thread has taken. Thanks for the laugh, Scott. By the way, does anybody have a really good recipe for potato kugel? :) Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 15:41:56 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: eb Subject: eb-Not me! Message: Dear eb, No I'm not into cycling. To many big hills and small mountains around here. I grew up in flat New Jersy! I love water and was doing water arobics until my 2nd job came up now I'm just waiting to get back to a normal schedule so I can start up again. I also love to dance but just what comes out. My older daughter was a dance/theater major in school. She graduated last May and has been a waitress for the year and is moving soon to California and says she will go to grad school there (thank god!) and wants to teach dance at a college. I am very happy about it. She has talent, of course I am her mom. She did a thesis preformance at her college and I, my younger daughter, old family friends and her good friends from high school went to MA for the weekend and enjoyed the hell out of both preformances and partied till dawn! I think it is a genetic thing, my parents met at dancing school. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 16:13:13 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Your pictures Message: Would you girls be so kind as to post your pictures and those of any post-adolescent daughters you may have contact with? It's a simple truth that all men must know the appearance of any woman they deal with. I thought that was the case and looked it up just to be sure. (Yes, I have the quotes.) Fair is fair, right? Thanks, Spiritual enough for this lifetime anyway, Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 16:56:35 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, you're disgusting. Message: Besides, I've already seen YOUR picture! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 22:11:30 (EDT)
From: Memphis Belle Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Does M ever talk about Jesus Message: What does M think? He mostly talks about Kabir, I don't know who Kabir is. Is Kabir part of the Knowledge. Was Kabir someone like Jesus? Do any of you recall anything M has said in the past about Jesus. I have not heard him mention anything or even anything about GOD. I would also like to say that all of your messages have been a great help to me . I am on the see-saw of Knowledge. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 22:28:19 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Memphis Belle Subject: Does M ever talk about Jesus Message: Here's an excerpt from a poem by Kabir: “The Holy One lives inside you - why open your other eyes at all? Kabir will tell you the truth: Listen, brother! The Guest, who makes my eyes so bright, has made love with me.” M portrays himself as The Guest who is within us all waiting to make love with each one of us. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 00:52:53 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: John K. Subject: Does M ever talk about Jesus Message: He wants to 'make love' with us? I never heard him say THAT before or heard that interpretation before, although Kabir was quoted by him endlessly. First of all: YUCK, and secondly: but what can it MEAN? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 01:09:53 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: JW Subject: Does M ever talk about Jesus Message: I remember the allusion being made by premies, around the time maharaji started dancing in the Krishna costume; usually by women. It was disturbing but by that time it was all about endurance. Enduring the boring satsang and enduring the maudlin emotions. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 05:16:23 (EDT)
From: john K. Email: None To: JW Subject: Does M ever talk about Jesus Message: The Kabir poetry is about experiencing ecstacy, love, with that perfect one within. M did portray himself as krishna, remember he had several costumes, one formal - the red sergeant-pepper band costume; and one for fun, the half naked one with straps across his chest, or was I dreaming that? After he paraded through the campgrounds in the half naked costume I was stunned by the total lack of any interest I had in seeing him. But anyway, he did portray himself as that perfect one worthy of our devotion who waits for us inside if we could just make more effort. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 06:14:32 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: JW Subject: Does M ever talk about Jesus Message: 'Love',or in this Hindu example,sex,is often used as a symbol for the uniting of soul and God.That's the textbook answer.Personally I have my doubts about the value of the symbol as people in general seem to gravitate to it more than they should!! I prefer the true Christian analogy of FOOD(bread,wine). Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 10:26:28 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Does M ever talk about Jesus Message: Petrou: So, you prefer to think of the union with God as similar to eating a hunk of bread? It's Amazing, isn't it, how different we all are! My experience is that the union with God is ecstacy and not sex. I think the analogy with sex is inevitable because sex is the closest to ecstacy that we have in our normal day to day lives, sans drugs that is, but the ecstatic experiences I have had with the spirit are nothing like sex. I see the point though about treating it like bread, as something we must have each day to survive. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 10:21:02 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: JW Subject: Does M ever talk about Jesus Message: JW: It's that business about the 'ultimate centimeter' again. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 23:42:35 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Memphis Belle Subject: Does M ever talk about Jesus Message: I can't tell you too much about what M said. Premies told me that Jesus gave this knowledge and that 'goomraji' (is that how premies still pronounce his name? I didn't know how they got that pronounciation out of that spelling...) was the living Perfect Master, as Jesus had been. (Which is not a fact, BTW) The only thing I recall M saying about Masters, and this would apply to Jesus indirectly, was that you had to serve a 'living' master. That was the purpose of life. Something to that effect. Does anyone have some quotes for this girl? MB, it's amazing how that knowledge see-saw works. No matter what anyone tells you, there is no one sitting on the other side...Take Care! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 06:07:39 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Memphis Belle Subject: Does M ever talk about Jesus Message: Yes GMJ does talk about Jesus and God.I am a follower of GMJ and also a Christian.GMJ has often said that Knowledge will only help the practice of any religion and I have found this to be true.I love to read and investigate religions:its actually a subject area called Comparative Religion and is a branch of Anthropology.I have practised meditation for over 25 years. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 10:27:39 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Does M ever talk about Jesus Message: Petrou: Try reading Weber on the subject. Emphasis on 'comparative.' The 'mystagogue' tradition to which MJ belongs is fundamentally incompatible with the Christian tradition in the area of ethics. Or hadn't you noticed? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 20:12:05 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Memphis Belle Subject: Does M ever talk about Jesus Message: Hi, Memphis Belle! This may not answer your question exactly, but I've been corresponding with Michael Dresbach, one of the ex-premies who sometimes posts on the site who is a Christian minister (Episcopalian), and his thoughts on Jesus and the knowledge are as follows: 'I am working on a Master of Arts in Church History. My area of interest is Patristics, or the first three centuries of Christianity. I love that era because that is when everything was starting to come together; there were several different schools of Christianity and it is very exciting. This is the reason that I am intolerant of the Premie 'Jesus taught this Knowledge' baloney; I spend most of my time reading about that era and I am convinced that this Sikh meditation technique [the 'knowledge'] was not even known in the Mediterranean at that time.' Michael (also known as Mickey the Pharisee - jokingly) says that if you have any more questions, you can e-mail him - he's really busy with church and school right now so hasn't had time to post on the site. His e-mail is: mgdbach@ziplink.net Hope this helps, and I'm glad you appreciate the site, Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 23:17:37 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Katie Subject: DON'T BE FOOLED BELLE Message: WHOA!! Let there be light? When thy eye be single your whole body shall be full of light!! The road to Damascus? Come on now,the whole of religious literature let alone Christianity,is full of such references. PS I have a degree in Archaeology and Anthropology .I'm also a teacher,freelance artist and professional keyboard player. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 23:58:02 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Did Jesus give knowledge Message: Petrou - I am not arguing against the whole of religious experience, and I don't think that Michael is either. What he is trying to say (and what I believe also) is that Jesus did not teach the meditation techniques as taught by Maharaji. Do you really believe that St Paul received knowledge on the road to Damascus? That let there be light refers to the light technique as taught by Maharaji? I don't. I think that if you really read the Christian scriptures there are more references to love for God and one's fellow beings than to light or knowledge. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 00:34:23 (EDT)
From: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Katie Subject: Did Jesus give knowledge Message: I don't know if Jesus showed meditation techniques but two things are faurly clear, historically; after Jesus died,his followers had a major split. One branch became the Christianity we all know about today and was mainly started by Paul and his disciples. This branch was spread to Rome, of course. The other branch of Christianity spread to Northern Africa and also east to India. I believe this branch of Christianity talked more about light and meditational experiences. Another thing which is historically true is that light meditation is nothing new and has been practised by all sorts of cultures throughout the world for a long time. The ancient Chinese talked about the gathering of the light at the place where we call the third eye. Seeing light inside our heads is an normal human phenominon, it seems. Religious leaders are bound to give this light some divine connotation. Perhaps Jesus did this. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 06:30:41 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Katie Subject: Did Jesus give knowledge Message: The fact that divine manifestations occur in the human body is the point.Knowledge is not limited to a few so-called 'techniques'. I often experienced phenomena without any use of techniques but I was meditating ie sitting in a quiet reverent attitude . So what if it takes a tragedy or a different form to experience it? . The trouble is that very few living people talk about these things,its all left up to the history books too often. Its real and GMJ got me on the track. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 10:38:20 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Katie Subject: Did Jesus give knowledge Message: Katie: Personally I think he might have taught something like Knowledge. Why not? Don't know if he taught the specific techniques of course, or gave the subject the same weight. The Gospels were all written at least 50 years after Jesus, so by that time they may have been rather confused about some of the references. I think the Pauline reference is more contemporaneous. The reference in Acts (written by the author of Luke at least 70 years on) could refer to an experience that had Knowledge as the base, but also involved a much more profound visitation of the Holy Spirit. The two are not incompatible. On the whole, however, it is a debatable point. There is not a definitive answer. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 14:52:58 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Michio Kushi gives knowledge Message: Well, he doesn't quite call it knowledge, but in his book about Macrobiotics called the Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 17:43:52 (EDT)
From: Continued Email: None To: eb Subject: Michio Kushi gives knowledge Message: I seem to have gotten cut off. Must be that infernal inner ear problem again. But seriously, when I got into macrobiotics 10-years ago, I bought a book called the Do-In by Michio Kushi. In it are physical and spiritual exercises including the light technique I learned before M changed it, music, nectar, and about 100 ways to breathe and chant. I was really surprised that the techniques were not a secret... they even have pictures for the proper placement of the fingers and tongue. And descriptions of how the techniques positively affect the body, mind, and soul, i.e., the light technique activates the center of the brain and clears the crown chakra. It was probably around that time that I started having serious doubts about Maharaji's divinity. eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 00:05:45 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Petrou Subject: DON'T BE FOOLED BELLE Message: Petrou, You might have your joint degree but you certainly don't exhibit anything like academic rigour. You seem to have no sense of the traps of unexpressed assumptions. Let's say, for argument's sake, that Jesus taught people to squeeze their eyes just like Maharaji (and of course his older brother, the REAL Guru Maharaj Ji). What does that mean? Well, I guess it would mean that Maharaji's teaching the same 'thing' -- but even then would that 'thing' be necessarily more than a cheap parlour trick? Take the breath, for instance. No, take blood. Say you were involved in a cult that worshipped blood as the 'life essence without which there would be no life'. Don't you think you could find a lot of cults, old and new, that shared that idea? So? What does that tell you? That all these groups were right? That all these groups were wrong? Either? Neither? Both? Don't know? The study of 'Comparative Religions' that you get all excited about can be done sharply and critically or not. One can, like Joseph Campbell or Frazier in the 'Golden Bough', collect similarities from all different religions and imagine all sorts fo things. But, are they the right things? Again, if we could find evidence of 200 societies that deified cats, would that make cats divine? How about ancestors? Thousands of historic and prehistoric societies have worshipped great-grandpa. So? What does that say? Anyway, that's all assuming so much about Jesus and Maharaji. Personally, I think the evidence that they were teaching the same thnig is very scanty indeed. (I hasten to add I think Jesus was deluded entirely). Care to discuss this further? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 06:47:14 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Jim Subject: DON'T BE FOOLED BELLE Message: When divine light manifests itself the physical eyes start to reflex search for the source.When this happens its advisable to still them.If you are pressing your eyes then you've missed the point.The light manifests itself of its own accord, never through physical acts.Simple sparks and spots mean nothing as far as any physical attempt goes to trigger this through what is called synesthesia.Synthesia is not God. And yes different religions often have many things to choose from and we have to make our choices-if someone wants to believe in cats then I can't stop them BUT I will say this:animals definitely exhibit signs of extra-sensory perception and should be included in serious study of the science behind religious thought. Don't demean The Golden Bough:the whole point of that book was to introduce the understanding of Sympathetic association which was the begining of man's understanding of Cause and Effect. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 10:42:00 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Petrou - Message: I can't take you seriously, P. It's a joke, right? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 11:03:49 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Jim Subject: Petrou Message: Jim: i have realized the error of my ways. It's far more entertaining to read the premies posts. This one has to take the cake, right? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 11:21:39 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: John K. Subject: Petrou Message: John, How ironic that you'd say this just after I posted my 'finito' post above. It's obviously a matter of mood. Right now, I'm questioning, as I often do, why I would spend my time playing an eternal chess game with someone who cna't or won't play fair. Eight years in and now almost three years as an ex. I'm not going to go down in history as the guy who dedicated his life to arguing with idiots. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 05:35:31 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Jim Subject: Petrou - Message: The beauty of the net is that you can cast pearls before swine(please excuse the analogy)but there is always other erudite persons around to pick them up. Read it and weep. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 11:18:23 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Petrou Subject: DON'T BE FOOLED BELLE Message: Petrou, you say: 'Simple sparks and spots mean nothing'. Mean nothing? In reference to what? What meaning does the light possess or not possess? When you say one manifestation of light means nothing, what are you talking about? I have been seeing a gorgeous ball of pure white light for years. What meaning does that have? It's a pleasant view, a pleasant experience, what meaning could it possibly have? Also, I'm curious, do you believe inner light contains more 'meaning' than a sunset? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 05:30:26 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: John K. Subject: DON'T BE FOOLED BELLE Message: No,I don't believe inner light has more meaning than a sunset.But then again are you talking about inner light or Inner Light?? Forget about the dots and squiggles and the socalled ball of light.Real divine light comes rarely at the will of God and NO amount of cajoling will do it for you.If you truly see it you can't simply forget about it or be bored looking at it.Real Inner Light comes packaged with an EXPERIENCE,not boredom but great inspiration,insight,energy,miracles etc.Its not looking at pinpricks of synthesia after a whack in the face like in so many Bugs Bunny cartoons,its real man,and I honestly hope you get even a few seconds of it.I hope that's not a putdown. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 10:06:42 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: Knowledge and cats Message: Dear Jim, I did believe what M said about Jesus giving K. That is one of the 'hooks' that got me. I have ever since believed in the possibility that is was so but haven't researched it and for me it may or may not be true. The way things look in my life now I'll be 75 before I have time to research it to my satisfaction. As far as the cat thing...do you know who/where I can send a cat for deifing? I heard about a Chinese resturant in the area being put out of business for serving cat but it was to late, they were already gone. This way this cat would live like a queen, maybe even have a gold litter box. Who could find fault with me for sending her into that kind of life. Her name is Hannah and she is not the example of 'Grace' in my life! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 10:55:11 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Knowledge and cats Message: Robyn: Frankly, I can't support the idea of giving cats special status. Everyone knows that cats are apostates. However, I know this Golden Retriever named 'Aspen'.... -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 11:38:02 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Scott T. Subject: Knowledge and cats Message: Dear Scott, This Aspen must be wonderful! I have 2 dogs who I love dearly, Kenya and Fable. There is another story about Kenya, another day maybe. You do like my stories don't you? (Meryl Streep, Out of Africa). Unfortunately my dogs are not realized just sweet and manic respectively. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 05:49:48 (EDT)
From: Anon Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Pope Petrou Message: I have a degree in Archaeology and Anthropology .I'm also a teacher,freelance artist and professional keyboard player and... professional trumpet blower? :-> Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 06:33:43 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Anon Subject: Pope Petrou Message: I had to respond this way because somebody called Katie quoted a Mickey Pharisee as some kind of authority.Please read the messages before responding. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 11:19:37 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Who is Mickey the Pharisee Message: dear Petrou - if you read my message correctly, you will find that 'Mickey the Pharisee' is the nickname of Michael, who has posted on here for about a year. Michael is an Episcopal minister and is also getting a degree in early Christian church history. That is why I quoted him as some kind of authority on whether Jesus gave knowledge. I believe that Michael has researched it more thoroughly that almost anyone else on here. For example he learned Hebrew and Greek so he could read the original versions of the scriptures. I certainly don't know enough about early Christian history to argue with you or anyone else about it. I suggest you wait until Michael has time to post on the forum again. The nickname 'Pharisee' was given to him by Mili, by the way! (It's supposed to be a joke, but people don't always get that.) Regards from Katie (it's my real name) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 05:16:54 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Katie Subject: Who is Mickey the Pharisee Message: You have to look at the whole history of religions to really make worthwhile comment. Mickey's quote showed no knowledge at all about inner light.Looking at one tiny slice of church history means very little. Guess what? I too have qualifications from both uni and well established churches. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 20:12:15 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Kidnapping Message: I just watched a rerun of 'Law and Order' on A&E: The follower of a cult leader set off a bomb at a bank that was deemed evil by the leader, and died in the explosion. The DA's office couldn't try the cult leader because there was no evidence he was involved, so they tried him for kidnapping. They reasoned that the restraint necessary for kidnapping occurred through brainwashing; the linchpin of which was an implied threat, that leaving the cult would result in 'drowning in a river of fire'. The defense argued that it was only a metaphor and that there were no locks on the doors. But after being cross-examined, the cult leader demonstrated he believed he was the messiah and gave the jury a bad case of the heeby-jeebies. They found him guilty of first-degree kidnapping and second-degree murder. Usually the show seems pretty realistic in presenting cases and trials. Is this scenario possible in reality? At one point in the show, a court-appointed psychiatrist interviews the cult leader and determines he's manic-depressive and suffering from delusions that God appointed him to rescue lost souls. What would maharaji's personality reveal in such an interview? What's the statute of limitations on kidnapping? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 00:48:44 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Rick Subject: Kidnapping Message: I think Maharaji is perhaps sometime delusional. But, in the main, I think he knows exactly what he's doing. I think one of the amazing things is that he hasn't (that we know of) done something really bizarre like try to fly off a cliff without a plane. No, I think Maharaji is just plain ambitious, and has learned somewhere along the line to not believe his own rhetoric. I understand that he's gone to therapy, but I don't know if he still does. That would be interesting. Maybe we could break into the office of his psychiatrist and steal the file. No, wait, I guess that's been done and is likely illegal. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 06:22:52 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: JW Subject: Kidnapping Message: Unsubstantiated rumour and petty slander are not really submissable to any logical paradigm...comprende? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 12:22:24 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Kidnapping Message: No, I don't 'comprende.' I don't consider having seen a therapist 'slander.' Secondly, several people have posted here saying that M has both attended therapy (including marriage counseling with Durga Ji/Marolyn)and has also recommended that people with personality problems see a psychiatrist. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 06:50:41 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: JW Subject: Kidnapping Message: That certainly sounds a lot better than your previous message. Counselling is not necessarily seeing a shrink.All wise people counsel and seek more information. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 08:42:21 (EDT)
From: A little birdy told me Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Kidnapping Message: Actually, Petrou, it was an astrologer. She worked the Renaissance fair Her name was Koran and she saw Maharaji for 15 years-until her death. She and many in the inner circle attempt to have M deal with his pathological denials, love affairs,and family problems. To him, when he sits in his chair or throne it all works. He is the eyes open channel/ Guru/ god/ friend lover servant or whatever hes acting out at that appearance.Actually given the adoration and psychological support, practice, PR, and inclination, it is something many of us could do ! Especially at $6 MM a year- and you make all the rules! The problems happen to him offstage when he- like the rest of us- have to joust with that old demon 'accountability' Anyway, he suffers offstage. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Apr 16, 1998 at 05:20:12 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: A little birdy told me Subject: Kidnapping Message: Easy to say anything.If you read above arguments ,bald statements don't mean a thing legally.Actually now that net laws are changing guess who could sue you?:GMJ. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 13:45:48 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Kidnapping Message: Petrou: You clearly don't know what a paradigm is. Probably comes from reading too much Clifford Geertz. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 18:49:58 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: Colorado Kid vs. Psuedoscience Message: Slightly off-topic (but not entirely). I'd like to share this delightful true story with those who haven't heard it. Every Sunday on BBC radio, Alistair Cooke reads his 'Letter from America' (Cooke was the original for the Sesame Street/Muppets' Cookie Monster). This Sunday he reported how this nine-year-old schoolgirl from somewhere in Colorado has had a research paper published in a leading medical journal. It all started when she had to come up with a science project for school, was watching a TV programme about 'Touch Therapy' and came up with a neat idea. Touch Therapy is a form of massage I suppose you'd call it, in which the therapist/healer doesn't actually make physical contact with the patient, but instead moves his/her hands all around the patient's body allowing a vital flow of healing energy to pass from the therapists' fingertips. A skilled therapist can, of course, detect where knots of bad energy are collecting in a patient's body, and will apply extra focussed energy on such trouble spots, and zap whatever germs, tumours, bad karma, or evil spirits are manifesting their malign effects. So this girl constructs a screen with two holes in it just large enough for her experimental subjects (all professional touch therapists) to place their hands through. For each trial she flipped a coin, then depending on the outcome, placed one of her own hands close to either the therapist's right or left hand. The therapist had to identify which hand was in close proximity with the girl's. She actually managed to persuade over two hundred such professinals to take part (I think she must live in Boulder), and while none of them took the experiment terribly seriously, they of course believed themselves capable of passing such a test. Chance would predict a 50% 'hit' rate (ie., if there was nothing more than guesswork going on). The Touch Therapists collectively achieved a 44% hit rate, showing pretty conclusively, I think, that there is still plenty of snake oil about for the sincere seeker, while discovering certain kinds of Truth really can be marvellously simple. 'Out of the mouths of babes...' as they say. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 19:03:25 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Colorado Kid vs. Psuedoscience Message: Nigel: I think a sample of 900 is capable of about a 7% alpha, or a 14% confidence interval (rule of thumb). 44% is within 7% of 50% so 44% is not statistically different from 50%. It would have been interesting if the 'professionals' had an error rate that was significantly below 50% (say 41%), which would mean that they were reliably inaccurate. Her results simply mean that touch therapists are kin to Yuri Geller. Thanks for the story. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 02:52:27 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Scott T. Subject: Colorado Kid vs. Psuedoscience Message: Ever heard of 'PSI-missing'? - it is a name that some parapsychologists use to claim a 'success', on the the grounds that the psychics have underachieved to such an extent it still proves something spooky is going on. What it really means, of course, is the parapsychologists are halving the acceptable critical threshold for success in a task. In a somewhat similar vein, Rhine (the guy with the symbol cards) used to believe that he was unpopular, and there were subjects gaining deliberately low scores just to discredit him. (How could people be so mean, eh?) So he used to discard all such trials from his analysis. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 06:33:28 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Colorado Kid vs. Psuedoscience Message: All would be psychics should be ruthlessly screened for deliberate exaggeration.There are however some things that do make one think that there could be real manifestations.Particularly gaining peace,revelations of knowledge and clairvoyant visions from following GMJ and other great teachers.There is significant proof that such a thing as a premonition exists:this would be a contradiction of the normal rules of time and space in the realms of man's own little consciousness.Jesus and other teachers claimed that this is the case.Were they fakes too? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 19:03:59 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Petrou Subject: We are stardust, we are golden Message: There is significant proof that such a thing as a premonition exists:this would be a contradiction of the normal rules of time and space in the realms of man's own little consciousness.Jesus and other teachers claimed that this is the case.Were they fakes too?> Yes, Petrou. I do believe they were fakes too, or at least the beliefs of their followers were totally misguided. It took me many years to arrive at such a realisation, but once it happened, there was no going back. The path I now follow is not one that everybody can hope to find in this lifetime, and sometimes it can be a little scary, but those who who are committed to discovering the truth will in time surely find it. Hang on in there, brother. All would be psychics should be ruthlessly screened for deliberate exaggeration In the light of Jim Jones, Moses David, Marshall Applewhite, Ashokohara, Rajneesh, Fittgau-Goethe (a little-known suicide cult still trying to express itself), Koresh etc., wouldn't it be a splendid idea if Living Lords and Perfect Masters were also ruthlesslessly screened for deliberate exaggeration? Toodle-pip. 'We are matter The stars are matter But it don't matter' (Captain Beefheart) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 06:56:58 (EDT)
From: Petrou Email: None To: Nigel Subject: We are stardust, we are golden Message: Well at least you admit that you believe all religions are fake.People on this line are saying they don't think everyone is a fake but I wonder at this. Do you or do you not believe that such a thing as a premonition exists? And its true as you say:many loony teachers abound but the principal of free choice reigns like a law of physics and people choose the wrong thing sometimes. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 10:48:44 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Petrou Subject: Stop, Petrou, I can't take it! Message: Petrou, Your particular mix of bland idiocy, ignorance and ham-fisted confidence is running through my brain like sand in an engine. Help! I'm going to have to stop reading your posts before I have a heart attack. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 15:56:02 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Meanwhile, in the late 70's Message: Jim has been obsessing with these quotes from M's early years which granted are a barrel of laughs; however, none of us left M because of his early enthusiastic pubescent promises that fell flat. I think far more amazing are what he claimed to be in the late 70's. From proclaimed 'savior of mankind' who would drop 'the peace bomb' M evolved into something far greater. And in fact, I did leave because of my frustration in trying to come to terms with this claim of his. For 100 points, what did M claim to be later in the decade? Hint: remember Kabir's poems. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 18:44:42 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: John K. Subject: And the winner is: Message: The Ultimate Ruler! And The greatest Magician-that controls the creation completely. Not to mention this gem of his; Once the world starts cooperating with me, the whole world will be mine in 5 seconds. You watch. It will be real to real, hand to hand, Five seconds. Nothing is impossible except a few things. (Like say, treating the staff with respect?-bill) I am hungry for devotion. I am hungry that somebody obeys my orders. And if you can give me that, that is well and good. I'll have to pull out some of the REAL wild ones. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 18:53:58 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: bill Subject: And the winner is: Message: Classic quotes, Bill. These should be posted here one a week, lest anybody forgets. I think you might start having to use a few quote marks, though, just so the premies don't get confused between GMJ's explicit teachings, and any sarcastic paraphrase of your own. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 19:13:46 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: bill Subject: Napoleon in a dhoti Message: bill: Is this the 'ultimate ruler' as in the 'ultimate yardstick?' Wasn't that around the time that the US rejected the metric system? He could have been pissed about that. The metric system was Napoleon's brainchild, so he might have been feeling Napoleonic (i.e. a diminutive megalomaniac). Hence, he wanted to become the 'ultimate centimeter.' -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 19:52:58 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Napoleans' bone a part Message: 'ultimate centimeter' on a 5 foot man, that might be referring to another diminutive part. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 00:08:04 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: bill Subject: Napoleans' bone a part Message: bill: I considered calling it 'the ultimate inch' but had to keep it metric. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 19:51:50 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: bill Subject: And the winner is: Message: bill, Those quotes are really scary. It would be more realistic to say, 'Once the people of the world stop thinking for themselves, abandon any common sense and just let me have my way...everyTHING will be mine!' How is everyone supposed to 'cooperate?' VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 22:24:38 (EDT)
From: John K. Email: None To: bill Subject: And the winner is: Message: Wellll, I see that there is more than one right answer. I had forgotten about those 'greatest magician' talks. I was thinking though of him sitting on the throne in his krishna outfit wearing a crown and portraying himself as the object worthy of our devotion. All that talk about devotion was based on himself being the object of our devotion. The Kabir poetry is about devotion and meditation and closing off the outer senses so that one can attend to the real feast within where The Guest resides who is the one worthy of our devotion. My understanding of Kabir's poems is that Kabir is talking about the power or the energy is The Guest that can be experienced through meditation. I have experienced that energy making love to me, and as a matter of fact all of my most intense experiences came after I left M. But anyway, those experiences had nothing to do with M. Yet, M actually portrayed and probably still does portray himself as the one worthy of our devotion as that one we will find when we go within. He makes himself to be the personification of the Knowledge. So that by dedicating every moment to meditation satsang and service we would be with him. He claimed to be within each one of us, to be with each one of us, and if we were with Knowledge then we would be one with him. Does he still claim that? I bet he does. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 18:51:45 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: John K. Subject: And the winner is: Message: 'remember me at the moment of death' was said in 97 wasn't it? rawat has taken kabirs comments about the master and grafted them into his own divinity. He plays the role of master now so he just assumes the alleged atributes of this fictional master kabir referred to. Just one of the problems with rawat playing god is the standards he sets with his comments and behaviours. Later zealots and followers will copy the most nutty of his comments and his distain for family ect. ect. Instead of freedom people born into the rawat family religion will have a hell of a time breaking free unless we take this opportunity to expose the first ultimate ruler and get his story from as many victims that were close to him as we can. I dont want my grandkids to have to contend with the prostelitizing of the video wielding maharajianity hordes. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 22:02:31 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: John K. Subject: Rush limbaugh ex premie Message: I dont listen to political talk much but I have listened to rush during the presidential elections. Last year 97 I heard him say 'guru maharaji' in reference to someone else being some self elevated type pundit that rush was disagreeing with. TODAY I heard him say 'Maha Rush Ji' Referring to himself. In 96 or 95 I heard rawat talk about Rush. He said he was flying in from the pacific and if your flying one of your options to navigate is to tune into a radio station in the city you are heading for and that will set your course heading. Rush is broadcast all around the world and as he was speaking I was waiting to hear his opinion. He said some some derogatory slam about how stupid stupid blah blah I was wondering 'WHAT part of rush is he so pissed about?' Politics is politics. I thought maybe he got mad over the way rush uses the word 'truth'. Anyway, maybe Jim will e-mail rush and find out. Rush is VERY big internet freak and perhaps he has been here. Or maybe he needs an invite. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 22:05:59 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: bill Subject: Rush limbaugh ex premie Message: Bill, This time I think you're ON something. Hasn't it ever occured to you that 'A student' was Rush? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 22:21:48 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: Jim Subject: would you like that with fries Message: Jimmy, who the heck else in the premie community would suggest a 3 to 4 hour dinner with you so they could prove something about themselves to you? Some random aussie? Maybe he plans to yell at you? And then take your wallet to pay the meal. If this website ever goes verbal, we have to watch out for him sneaking up and yelling us into a coma. Or beyond. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 23:29:45 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: bill Subject: would you like that with fries Message: Bill, I'm SO insulted. You're telling me that only God himself woud deign to invite me for dinner. That's like having a face only a mother could love. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 00:09:20 (EDT)
From: Paul Email: None To: Everyone Subject: 'Divine Times' Revisited Message: Just returned from seeing long tome friend and fellow ex-premie and ashramite. He has a treasure trove of early stuff including issues of the DLM newspaper 'Divine Times' (precursor to much slicker 'And it is Divine'). Some memorable quotes and items for your amusement, and for the edification of premie revisionists from the 11/15/72 and 7/10/73 issues: 'Give me your love and I will give you peace. Surrender the reins of your life to me, and I will give you salvation. I am the source of peace in this world and I declare, I will establish peace in this world' (Note: Headline of this pre-millenium issue reads 'Golden Age Begins') To show how M carries on the family business this exerpt from an article on the history of DLM and Shri Hans (the dad). 'Shri Maharaj Ji surrendered His being totally to the will of His Guru who, He had realized was manifesting purely the Will of God...'for our sins He has come that we may be made clean and become the children of God.'' Shri Hans went on to become totally purified and take over from Surupanand. (the short version) A full page ad reads: Forget about 1984 Forget about 2001 1973 is HERE AND NOW Buy your car in '74 Build your house in '75 BUT SERVE THE LORD IN '73 Pretty catchy, huh! Well, enough for now. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 12, 1998 at 22:02:40 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Everyone Subject: My Testimony...13 Message: I was told long ago to never trust a second-hand version of a so-called fact. Now, I would not accept this advice totally, but the gist of it is true. In other words, one should, generally speaking ,only trust something that one has realised for oneself. For example, if it were true , as a number of ex-premies have suggested, that M would really not approve of my (and some other premies) involvement in this site, then sooner or later , surely , I will discover that. But I do not know how M would respond. I am outspoken around Swamiji, my Indian Guru friend, who has nothing to do with M , and for 16 years he has never tried to silence me nor kick me out of his little community. I mean, I have really confronted S. One must know for oneself. I don't know Maharaji intimately....from close quarters. That's unfortunate for me. Only my suspicion is, following many lucid dreams about M , is that if I was in close personal proximity to M , it would be a joyful and illuminating experience......if I was in the right place.....which would mean surrendered to Knowledge ,(not to M)... For me , Knowledge is not anti-mind. Mind has a most wonderful function .....but a total identification with mind is anti-self! Regards Vacol Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 12, 1998 at 22:17:36 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Vacol Subject: Test it, Kieth Message: Kieth, If you really want to know,why not call Linda Gross, President of Elan Vital? She's nice anad will probably explain this to your satisfaction. She can be reached at: 310 - 829 - 3221 It's her office (she's a lawyer in Santa Monica). If that's not enough, I'd suggest you just post your own email address and see what happens. Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 02:35:22 (EDT)
From: Vacol Email: None To: Jim Subject: Test it, Kieth Message: Jim....it's only a matter of time before we shall find out whether or not I am on M's black-list . Or will I get an offer to co-ordinate affairs for Australasia. Either way , the truth will prevail. Vacol. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 22:15:13 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: Vacol Subject: YELLED TO DEATH Message: Sorry Vacol but even bruce admits that rawat BLASTS people and that is his way of dealing with stupidity,inconsideration and laziness. I will have to dig it up but he was so into yelling at people that he came up with 'the four levels of rawat yelling at you' I will get the accurate lines but these are close: he yells at you; your mind goes away he keeps yelling; you lose control of your body he still yells; you lose conciousness He yells until; you die. I didnt make this up. You have to be god incarnate to know this kind of stuff. OR come from the incredible lying family the rawats. This web site has got more on the way. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 18:38:29 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: bill Subject: divine times Message: by the way, the yelling 4 catagories are printed in divine times. So it apparently went past the censors during the ultimate ruler years. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 12, 1998 at 19:21:04 (EDT)
From: Mirabai Email: None To: Everyone Subject: help with posting Message: I was wondering if anyone might be able to help me,I want to be able to put other peoples posts into my own so that I can show what I'm responding to.Alot of people here are doing it already. I have to admit I know little about computers. I imagine in might have to do with copying and pasting,but I still havn't learnt how to do that. Mirabai Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 12, 1998 at 19:54:53 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Mirabai Subject: help with posting Message: Mirabai, I am assuming that you know how to cut and paste. If you do not, and you are using Netscape, I can help you, please e-mail me. To learn how to do italics, bold, etc. in HTML (hyper-text machine language), please see what Brian has written under 'Forum Help'. Regards from Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 12, 1998 at 21:14:59 (EDT)
From: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Mirabai Subject: help with posting Message: To copy some text; highlight the text with your mouse and then click on the Edit menu and then on Copy to copy the highlighted text to the clipboard. To paste the text; put the curser where you want the text to start on the page and then click on the Edit menu and then on Paste. The text will then magically appear on the new page. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 02:39:53 (EDT)
From: Mirabai Email: None To: David and Katie Subject: help with posting Message: Thanks both for the imformation. Big help. Mirabai. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 12, 1998 at 15:34:47 (EDT)
From: U.K. Mole Email: sneaky@bongoland.com To: Everyone Subject: Hot News from Bubblegum Ji Message: News about BAL BHAGWAN JI alias SHRI SATPAL JI MAHARAJ (his own preference!) alias BUBBLEGUM JI (not his own preference). Two of his Bai Jis (one of whom is called Atma Santoshi Ben from Haridwar) have been vigourously busy in the Lancashire region of England since the Ist of April 1998 preparing the remnants of the faithful for a sacred visit of the Holy One in May! Now that he's been unceremoniously ejected from the promising political career it's back to the old day job for the Lord of The Universe contender. Indeed, I can exclusively reveal that he will be presenting a program (in Divine Person) in the town of Bolton on Sunday 10th May 1998 at the following venue: Vishva Hindu Temple St. George's Road Bolton Lancs U.K. There are also to be events in Preston and Ashton Under Lyne: dates to be announced. Telephone numbers for the temple are 01204 396662 and 01204 406640. If phoning from outside the U.K. the code would be +44 1204 and then the last 6 digits. The phone numbers for the Holy One's contacts in the Lancashire area: 1) Jasuben Amritbhai Patel 0161 344 0771 Ashton Under Lyne (from outside U.K. +44 161 344 0771) 2) Maganbhai & Ushaben Patel 1 Bransdale Close Ferncrest Bolton U.K. Phone: 01204 665916 (from outside U.K. +44 1204 665916) Your intrepid correspondent is reliably informed that the contender's criteria for receiving the Knowledge is somewhat less strenuous and time consuming than his youngest brother's. He has repackaged the Knowledge and is calling it 'Manav Dharam', which I am also reliably informed, means (The)'Human Religion!' In order to be graced with the Manav Dharam one must listen to the Bai Ji's discourses once or twice and the Bai Jis will oblige: at least that was until this very day. Bubblegum Ji has now decided to follow M's example and become the only true revealer! I kid you not! Apparently his converts have been complaining for the past few years that they do not experience anything from his version of the Knowledge as imparted by his Bai Ji's. It is even reported that the Bai Jis diverted the complaints by advising the hapless initiates to go and listen to some videos of M in their local areas! Whose side are they on?!!!!! Sorry about not providing name and my e-mail address but this is far too much fun to risk by revealing all at this early stage. I have been enjoyably lurking here for quite some time. Even as I type my spies are scouring the land for further tit-bits for our entertainment (and enlightenment?). :-))))) I hear BBJ has a few publications extant, one a monthly Hindi magazine also entitled Manav Dharam and a booklet entitled The Living Testament, in English. I am hoping to cull a few goodies from these in the near future. Bye for now, U.K. Mole Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 12, 1998 at 16:06:20 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: U.K. Mole Subject: Hot News from Bubblegum Ji Message: Don't you guys say 'shrew' over there? Anyway, thanks so much for the news and, well, just for being you. Now, any chance of getting some English press to cover him, try to interview him etc., in light of his brother's infamous past and his own foray inhto hihg-level Indian politics? What a treat that would be. Can you imagine? Tell us more, tell us everything! Thanks, Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 12, 1998 at 18:28:50 (EDT)
From: Anon Email: None To: U.K. Mole Subject: Hot News from Bubblegum Ji Message: Extraordinary! Maybe BBJ is the One after all, and we all got it wrong for all those years! Presumably BBJ has some dazzling story as to exactly about how the mantle of Guruship was passed to him (and NOT to little bro') from daddy. Sometimes it get's really hard to know who to believe! Got to admit though, younger brother has really cleaned up good and proper. It's a bit sad, no..make that tragic... that spirituality is often reduced to family business in India.(and apparently now in Bolton, UK) What a sham. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Apr 12, 1998 at 21:51:42 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: U.K. Mole Subject: something to chew on Message: Thank you Mole man! Perhaps bbj deserves a web page as well. They're creepy and they're kooky, the rawat family. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 09:49:43 (EDT)
From: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: U.K. Mole Subject: Armaggedon in Bolton, Lancs Message: Is BBJ's knowledge the same as M's. i.e. light, music, breath and nectar techniques, or has he added something to it or perhaps taken something away? Perhaps the Beatles' lyric, 'Four thousand holes in Blackburn Lancashire' was some prophesy of a clash between the titans in the 'end times'? Two Lords of the Universe battle it out in Bolton. What devastation, what an Armagedon, what a joke! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 15:07:41 (EDT)
From: U.K. Mole Email: safe@underground.co.uk To: Jim and Everyone Subject: News Update Message: Thank you all for your kind salutations. I’ll have more news for you in a moment. Jim asked: 'Don't you guys say 'shrew' over there?' Actually, they’re a separate animal. We moles grudgingly admit a certain distant consanguinity but the shrew is an ill-mannered, cantankerous animal whereas we are entirely amiable. Of course, our penchant for burrowing in the darkness is well known and I’m sure you’ll recall that light is bad for our eyes. But we do like to pop up above the grass from time to time for a breath of fresh air. If this leaves a few unsightly holes in the well manicured lawns of illusion where’s the harm in that? Jim continues: 'Now, any chance of getting some English press to cover him, try to interview him etc., in light of his brother's infamous past and his own foray inhto hihg-level Indian politics? What a treat that would be. Can you imagine?' Tell us more, tell us everything!' I doubt if they would be very interested but you could try the Bolton Evening News and/or the Manchester Evening News. They both have web-sites: Manchester Evening News: http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk Bolton Evening News: http://theboard.newsquest.co.uk/ben/ I haven’t had time to check these sites yet but there’s bound to be e-mail addresses there. It might be worth a try though: as you say, it would be a treat and I can imagine it only too well. As for telling you everything, such is feat is, alas, beyond my humble powers. But, as promised, my spies have been busy and I do have some more snippets newly arrived from Camp Bubblegum. Firstly, the program in Bolton on the 10th May will commence at 7:30 p.m. and end at 9:00 p.m. Another program has been arranged for the following day, 11th May, in Leicester (same times as Bolton event) at the following address: Shri Wanza Community Centre Pasture Lane off Sanvey Gate Leicester. Shri Bazooka Joe then has a day off on the 12th before his triumphant divine manifestation in our nation’s fair capital on the 13th May, again at 7:30 p.m. 'Venue to be announced'. I am reliably informed his head honcho in these Sceptre’d Isles is one Natu Bhai Panchal of Rugby in Warwickshire. I don’t have his full address yet but his phone number is 01788 330950. From outside the U.K. this would be +44 1788 330950. This chap is sponsoring the tour by paying for all the air fares etc. And then, my dear American cousins, brace yourself: very soon after London he’s heading your way! I am awaiting details and will let you know. (In case you want to wait at the airport with mala’s, rose petals and Rolls Royces.) In response to David, I believe the techniques he gives are pretty much the same as those given by M in the early to mid seventies but I can try to check that and let you know. In response to Anon who asked, 'Presumably BBJ has some dazzling story as to exactly about how the mantle of Guruship was passed to him (and NOT to little bro') from daddy.' That’s something I would like to know as well. Without putting my agents in danger all I can say is that I’m hopeful for at least one eye-witness account of at least one of his discourses. I will instruct them to keep an open ear for this topic in particular. Well, that’s about it for now. I hope to have more in a few days. Toodle-pip, U.K. Mole. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 15:59:32 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: U.K. Mole Subject: I just talked with him Message: Well, I broke down and called Natu Panchal, BBJ's co-ordinator in Rugby. He seemed a nice, cultured fellow. Of course, he wanted to know what this call was all about, who I was, etc. It took a few moments to frame thnigs but we got passed the inherent mistrust and confusion of the situation quite well, I think. Here's waht happened. I told Mr. Panchal that I was a former follower of Balyogeshwar (that's how he knows Maharaji) who'd gotten involved at 19, lived in the ashram for eight years and now, years later, is active in the former follower web site, dedicated to getting some answers. (Sorry, that's my fix. Hey, you don't like it? YOU call him!). He wondered how I got his name. I told him it was on the internet. (?) I asked him how he understood his guru's past or legacy. Obviously, I said, I was interested in hearing how he thought BBJ 'got his spots' and what, if anything, he had to say about the little guy. First, Mr. Panchal warmly told me that Maharaji was his heart and soul. He means everything to him. The only thing is, 'Maharaji', to him, means BBJ. He don't know no BBJ, in fact. Just Satpal d/b/a Maharaji. (I forgot to ask if it's 'Maharaj Ji' or the new, improved 'Maharaji'). Then, after saying that he's never heard 'Maharaj Ji' talk about Maharaji, and adding, like any good devotee, that he doesn't care about the past and doesn't really want to know, he told me the story that circulates amongst 'Maharaj Ji' people. They say that Shri Hans gave the keys to the family Ford to 'Maharaj Ji' who soon realized that it was a big world out there. Thus, he delegated the west to young Balyogeshwar, like Queen Isabella gave Cortez Mexico (please, don't bother me with details). It was clear he didn't know a thing about 'Maharaj Ji''s past. I asked him how long he'd been following him. 15 years. So I told him what I knew, that BBJ (i.e. 'Maharaj Ji') was one of a Holy Family of four that clearly worshipped Balyogeshwar and proclaimed him the Lord of all Lords. I told him about Millenium (which he'd never heard of, although HIS 'Maharaj Ji' does indeed celebrate Hans Jayanti [the birthday of Shri Hans, the father -- VP, are you with me on any of this?]). I nparticular, I told him that HIS guru was the main guy promoting this event as the 'most significant event in human history' and told him the funny story from the video 'Lord of the Universe' where BBJ was walking around the astrodome explaining that aliens had already landed in Columbia to attend satsang and that they were certainly coming from all over the universe for November 8,9, 10. Who'd want to miss the most important event in human history? Even if you weren't human, you'd want to be there, wouldn't you think? I todl him that the last I'd heard, BBJ had gone back to India with mum and the slow brother (Lord of Music AND incarnation of Shiva) and litigated Balyogeshwar for the assets of DLM. Friendly enough, Mr. Panchal told me that he didn't want to know the past which, he once referred to as 'other peoples' problems'. All the same, he invited me to send him a copy of the video, 'The Lord of the Universe' and whatever satsangs I thought he should read. I said I would, on the condition that he promised to get back to me on it. Really, you guys should see this video too. And that was pretty much it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 19:08:37 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Jim Subject: I just talked with him Message: Jim, Shri Hans was the dad. Prem Rawat is the baby brother aka Guru Maharaj Ji, satguru. Until someone sued someone over control. (Mili would not answer the question as to who did the suing. Do we even know the answer to this?) Mama and big brother BBJ went back to India where big brother was the guru and our guru is defunct. Mom died and now Big brother has his own following after a failed attempt at Indian politics (or am I confusing him with another older brother?). Have I made a correct stab at it? Was BBJ the one who had the band? Which brother is the one who hangs around with M and according to a premie who posted only wants to be with Maharaji and nothing else? VP Jim, I am asking almost as many questions as you are. I know I can go read the history on site, but it's more fun asking you. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 19:20:41 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: VP Subject: Close, VP Message: Mom: Mata Ji, second wife of Shri Hans, broke with Maharaji in 74 after he did nothing to stop his brother, Raja Ji's, marriage to foxy brunette Claudia and then, worse, married foxy blond Marolyn Johnston. Shri Hans: Dad, died in 66 after leaving the dealership to....? Bal Bhagwan Ji: aka Satpal aka, apparently, Guru Maharaj Ji, eldest brother of Maharaji, claimed, with mom, that he was always supposed to be the guru, after he and mom and Bhole Ji split in 74. Apparently moonlighted as Perfect Master while serving in Indian government. We only knew him as Jesus incarnated (kind of confusing how Maharaji and he were Jesus but it was something we all seemed to understand somehow) and as the Lord of Intelligence (he wore glasses). Bhole Ji: Next oldest,fat, like music, lip-synched to Blue Aquarius songs wearing a gold lame suit at Millenium. Left with BBJ and mum in 74. Said to own a small limo fleet or something in New York. Oh yeah, God of music, incarntion of Shiva. Raja Ji: Youngest brother next to Maharaji. Born to lead, born to be a warrior, head of our internal security force, the Orwellian-named World Peace Corps, supposedly had a penchant for guns at one point. Definitely liked hanging out with Eurotrash hotshot premies and initiators. Married then divorced from Claudia. Had a drink with me, is now, apparently an instructor. I think there was a dog too. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 19:26:40 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Close, VP Message: Jim, if you make a copy of the video of that video showing BBJ talking about the aliens at Millennium, I will reward you handsomely. How about a bottle of Napa Valley wine? The Cabernet is particularly good this year. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 19:38:13 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: Close, VP Message: Deal. Address? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 19:32:02 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Jim Subject: Close, VP Message: Thanks, Jim. Makes the Windsors look pretty tame, no? How is it that a mere Queen Mother, Queen, King-in-waiting, his divorcee, an heir and a spare make more of a media splash than the mother of not one but TWO Lords of the Universe, The Two Lords themselves, two foxy wives, one rock and roll limo owning brother, a would-be arms dealer and a partridge in a pear tree? VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 20:17:08 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: Jim Subject: I just talked with him Message: great work st james but if you are going to send him a video, it has to be the british type or he can't watch it. Ask a local video store about copying it into thier video format. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 22:36:52 (EDT)
From: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Jim Subject: Technical video stuff Message: British videos use the PAL format. American (and probably Canadian) videos use the NTSC format. You can't watch an NTSC video properly on a British PAL system so the tape you send to Rugby has to be in the PAL format. If you take your copy of the video to a local video processing company, they will do you a PAL copy of your tape which you can send to Britain. It shouldn't cost too much. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 23:32:10 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: David Subject: Technical video stuff Message: David, If I sent you one as is, would you then make PAL copies for ex's and such? I'll even photocopy the cover. Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Apr 14, 1998 at 06:26:41 (EDT)
From: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Jim Subject: Technical video stuff Message: Yes I can make copies no problem. You mean you send me an NTSC copy. I would then get that transfered over to PAL and then make copies from that. Were losing a generation or two. If you want to retain the best possible picture quality then it would be best for you to have one PAL copy done from your (master) NTSC video and then send me the PAL copy which I could then copy ad infinitum. But if you don't mind losing a generation just send me an NTSC copy and I'll get it transfered over here. I said you'd never get me to see another M video. Perhaps this is his grace. God knows what my employees are going to think of it. They've never even heard of Maharaji. Must remember not to put the ex-premies on my mailing list. We don't want to corrupt them with my brand of videos. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 16:25:13 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: U.K. Mole Subject: News Update Message: Exciting stuff, Sir. I don't know whether you realise this, but you actually answered David's post about the four thousand holes... it was obviously the moles wot dunnit. I live just outside Liverpool and am toying with the idea of attending the Bolton meeting (if I can travel all over Europe to see his kid brother, then what's a short hop up the M6 to see Bubble man?) From the description of the venue, this looks like a pretty small-scale event, and who knows, you might be able to talk to the Lord in person. Only problem is, I wish there were a whole gang of me, so I could attend in each of the following personae: (1) The 'disillusioned premie', who knows Knowledge is The Truth, is toying with the idea of switching to BBJ but wants some clarification on matters raised regarding the apostolic succession - as raised in above posts. (2) The 'troublemaker', taking every opportunity to ask difficult and embarrasing questions about BBJ's recent and distant past incarnations, and maybe warning people off who are serious about getting involved. Have fun and get thrown out. (3) The 'journalist' with concealed tape recorder, saying nothing but getting a full transcript of proceedings for the good people on this forum. (4) The 'new recruit'. Know nothing, eager to learn everything, see what I have to do to get to receive Knowledge again. (5) As me. I would quite like to test my theory that the focussed environment of festivals and satsang meetings, combined with a little relaxation is all you need to replicate the spacey, mellow, disembodied sensations we used to get in satsang and attribute to GMJ. I am sure you could put a monkey on the throne and it wouldn't matter. Or then again, I might just go down the pub. Isn't the World Cup starting soon? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 16:35:37 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: nigel Subject: I'm with you, Nigel Message: Nigel, I know exactly what you mean. Even talking with Mr. Panchal was tricky as I didn't know which face to present. In the end, it was a mix, slightly sharp, slightly innocent, slightly confrontational. Go, Nigel, go. We're all ears. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 17:44:31 (EDT)
From: Anon Email: None To: Jim Subject: I'm with you, Nigel Message: Jim you SILLY ASS. You,ve probably been and gone and SPOILED EVERYTHING. Ratty and Badger and Mole were doing such a fine job as SECRET AGENTS and now you've most likely alerted those WEASELS to our plan. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 18:00:54 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Anon Subject: I'm with you, Nigel Message: Anon, If I did them I AM a silly ass. However, comrade, I don't think so (and soon, dear readers, Anon, will have to eat his block letters!). Now, why don't I think so.... hmm, give me a minute. Okay, I guess I figured that BBJ either does or doesn't have a story about how he got his spots. So would he tell it to the only people who criticise his young, upstart brother in public? Why not? Maybe, it's true, the brothers concede each other their respective turf, in which case they're together in wanting to stonewall critics of either. But, I don't beleive that, do you? That would require Maharaji accepting BBJ's ministry. I can't fathom that. Plus, BBJ's coming to America, for God's sake. Talk about encroachment or what? Anon, I didn't really know there was a plan, I saw the number and I called. What can I tell you? So now BBJ will be expecting someone asking him about Balyogeshwar? So? Wouldn't he anyway? Hell, I'm surprised he doesn't ask Brian if he wouldn't like some help with the page. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 18:23:42 (EDT)
From: Anon Email: None To: Jim Subject: I'm with you, Nigel Message: Only kidding Jim...nothing planned. This is definately an interesting development though. I thought you did well to ring up that number. I confess that, until I read that you had done so, I thought Mole may have been pulling our legs. I was thinking of ringing the guy myself tomorrow. I am totally in agreement with you that it is telling and depressing to see how this Indian Guru, BBJ, who is the VERY BROTHER OF THE ONE AND ONLY GENUINE MASTER, MAHARAJI (The Superior Power in Person as a matter of fact), is fleecing all the gullible and culturally pre-disposed, Indian communities in England. There ought to be a law against it. The bully. When MJ comes to town himself, a large contingent of Indian families descend in bus loads to attend. They bring along their entire extended families who sit in the bleachers of the UK's Conference Halls as if they might for all the world as well be sitting cross-legged along with thousands of others in some dusty gathering in India, believing unquestioningly in whichever 'Guru of the moment' happens to rope them in and give them something to listen to that sounds all spiritual. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Apr 15, 1998 at 09:41:48 (EDT)
From: Mili Email: milivoj@cheerful.com To: Jim Subject: I'm with you, Nigel Message: I know exactly what you mean. Even talking with Mr. Panchal was tricky as I didn't know which face to present. Gosh, Jim If you can't keep a tab on all of the faces that you've got, then how do you expect anyone else who reads your shallow output to do the same? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 20:25:37 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: nigel Subject: News Update Message: pick number three. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Apr 13, 1998 at 18:49:03 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: U.K. Mole Subject: For agent 707 Message: Isn't your toodle-pip an accidental happy giveaway? Thank you 707. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |