Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 21 | |
From: Aug 4, 1998 |
To: Aug 18, 1998 |
Page: 3 Of: 5 |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 03:12:23 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Everyone Subject: What is it with the 70's? Message: Not only was it the decade of bad taste, what with spray-on satin pants, stripey socks with separated toes, wedgey Dr Scholl shoes, kaftans, Andy Gibb and Farrah Fawcett flicks (I could never achieve these due to the straightness of my hair - but my elder sister had the best flicks this side of Charlie’s Angels) but it was, it seems, also the decade of ‘slack attitudes’. Don’t know what I’m talking about? Well, I have just unearthed a Service document with a lot (and I mean a lot) of contemporary quotes from the Big M about service and I thought I would share them with you ex-premies. Obviously we were given them in order to maintain our perfect commitment and perfect enthusiasm in our work for the Perfect Master. This one is from the Participation Meeting at Long Beach last year: This is all pioneering, there are no books written on this - this is all new territory. We’re still stuck in a mode of the ‘70s - ‘I’ll see what I can do’ - that was the 70’s mode. Now, approaching the 2000, the mode has to be - ‘It will be done.’ That’s the kind of responsibility that it’s going to require. What do you think about that? Do you agree? Personally I would have thought the ambitious 80’s with it’s shoulder-pads and Gordon-Gecko-greed-is-good type ethos would have been the mode of 'It will be done'. The caring sharing 90’s - perhaps more of a 'It will be done, but only if its sustainable development' and the mode of 2000 - 'It will be done, but we’d better do it before the comet hits'. Actually, I wonder if M feels a bit of a pressure about the turn of the millenium, as that is when a lot of the new Messiah’s are heralded as turning up. Maybe he’s getting a tad concerned that they might try and poach some of his premies... But wait there’s more. Not only in this thread do you get a quote about the 70’s, some decade analysis and some irrelevant hair-talk, along with the complimentary bold type, you get, wait for it...another quote from the Participation meeting: You know, one of the responsibilities that I feel in my life, being the Master, and maybe this didn’t happen so much in the past, but I want to make this transformation - is that I don’t only want to make it beautiful for this generation, whilst I am alive, but when the next Master comes I want to make it nice for him or for her. So that they don’t have to put up with the kind of garbage I did - that they can go on and enjoy, because it should be enjoyable. Spreading this Knowledge should be enjoyable and we have to set that standard. Garbage, M? What garbage? Can any of you exes enlighten to me as to what garbage the Big M is referring to? Family rivals? Mahatmas? Ashrams? Refuse in the water at Malibu? And as a reward to whoever gives me a good answer, I will give them, yes, another pathetic quote about Service. I’ve got heaps to give away, all fresh out of the fridge (apologies to Sir David for that analogy) and desperate for a home.... Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 03:43:11 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: TD Subject: That's a lie, TD Message: God, you fucking ex's! Emile's right, nothing but lies and distortions. I was at that Participation Meeting too (and I just HATE it when ex's make fun of these names, calling them 'wooden' or whatever. Come on, jerks, you gonna tell em there's nothing colorful about video event? Look assholes, these videos ARE in color so stuff it, will you PULLEEZE?! And technique number one? Come on, now, what's He going to call it, technique number 59305? Get real!). Anyway, I was there and I heard Him say 'It will be FUN!' Just goes to show you how tricky words are, really. -- very funny, TD. Did he really say that? Mr. Empty Promise himself? Mr. I-Swear-On-This-Here-Bible-That-I-Will-Establish-Peace-In-This-World? Too much. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 06:03:01 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, would I lie to you...?? Message: -- very funny, TD. Did he really say that? Absolutely. I have it in writing, given to me directly from an esteemed fellow EV service-person. Obviously watching the video and going to our own Participation Soiree wasn't enough, we had to have a handout with all the quotes so we wouldn't let our motivation slip when at home. I completely forgot about them until now, as at the time, I must have been so eager to do my next batch of service - you know how it can get... Now I said I was only going to give exes a quote if they answered my queries, but because you gave me a witty reply (and 'cause I've got a shitload of 'em to get out and I've got to get some nocturnal downtime soon), I'm going to bestow you with your very own Service quote from the Big M. Here goes: Your commitment has to be clear, you want to be part of this or not? You have to decide, I'm not going to tell you, nor am I waiting for you, make no mistake, I am not going to wait. If my Master has taught me I can shape the future, that's exactly what I'm going to do. You want to be part of it? I'm throwing you out an invitation. Wanna accept the invitation, Jimbo? If you don't, I might have to work on you with some more guilt-laden motivational rhetoric... Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 06:49:26 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: TD Subject: M, would you lie to me...?? Message: While a premie, my vision of peace on earth assumed the end of the Gooma line. Of course, in the 70's we had to juggle the single lineage with the special '5 masters' theory, apparently a custom job out of Hardwar, India. It seemed to me that true peace would no longer recquire a master's manifestation to save us and so on, a logical enough thought according to the principles taught by M. So if Gooma is planning on making things easier for the next master, it sounds like peace on earth has gone the way of planned obsolescence. I would under if Rawatt, humble humanitarian, would admit his chances for achieving world peace are way up there with snow in hell. Being a premie had a deleterious effect on my retirement planning. Meanwhile gooma can plan on the continuation of his cult after his death on top of the dissemination of the mounds of wealth he has acquired. Thanks BM. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 07:15:32 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Runamok Subject: M, would you lie to me...?? Message: So if Gooma is planning on making things easier for the next master, it sounds like peace on earth has gone the way of planned obsolescence. Runamok, what's this about the 5 Masters? Were you led to believe that M was the last Master, the one who would bring to peace to the world and there would be no need for another one? When I came to the Big M in '94, he would talk often about the next Master, so he's changed his tune even more than I thought. He would say things like 'When I die this is not going to become a religion, like in the past. There will be another living Master.' Here's your specially selected quote Runamok: Do we have the potential to make a difference? You bet. Have we made a difference? You bet. Thousands upon thousands of peoples lives have been changed for the better, for which they are thankful. Thought you'd appreciate this one, Runamok, as all of us here who have felt our lives change... Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 12:59:19 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: lotuspower@aol.com To: TD,Gail, and all Subject: lies, exes, and vga terminals Message: Well, the 5 masters thing was not something from the horses mouth as far as I know, but it was an on and off prevalent rumor. It was designed to justify the presence of 5 (count'em) perfect masters. This emphasis on the next master is definitely new. If his goal is to make it easier for the next one, the implication is that's instead of peace on earth, which is well documented as his original proclamation. Emphasis on the one-at-a-time lineage also implies incarnation or a similar convoluted cultist concept. He did not specifically state that there would not be a new master, though. It was an understanding I reached, and probably due to the influence (satsang or vibe) of the elder brother. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 16:47:57 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: TD Subject: lying Ji Message: The five masters or to qoute from 72/73, the lord came with five --------- (something) this time to take in the whole world. This was said by rawarts mother mata ji and her and her four lying brats were the various hierarchy of gods. I will pull out the titles soon. mama mia and the four gunas more likely. The quote about this not becomeing a religion, damn, it always has been the most(?) sick religion going. On the garbage contest, I think he has every right to complain that his mom didn't come and accept his lordship and authority for 18 years until she finally died. He of course would not lower himself to visiting her. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 10:02:30 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: It's true, TD. Message: I heard it myself. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 06:53:10 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: TD Subject: What is it with the 70's? Message: Dear TD, The complementary bold type has me feeling like it's Christmas! :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 07:28:03 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Robyn Subject: What is it with the 70's? Message: No worries Robyn! But don't think I'm going to let you off without a motivational quote. Here goes: Whatever it takes, then those who bring that possibility in that way, make it real on the face of this earth, then they are the people who are truly blessed. And they know, and they rejoice in that feeling. Were we once so blessed...?? Regards, TD PS. I'm off to the boudoir now for a bit of shuteye, so you ex-premies will have to motivate yourselves until I wake up and give you some more profound stuff from the LOTU. OK? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 16:28:45 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: TD Subject: Seven Tease Message: Jeeze, the seventies were when we did everything for him and the planes and the festivals and organisations and the audience we gave him was stellar. He will never get anywhere close to that again I hope. What a revisionist about the past. The pot smoking stories like the one from Malibu mole about Donner and rawat are heavy to read and should have thier spot on the site somewhere perhaps. Perhaps he can't remember the seventies clearly. His own efforts at meditating and being a cold hearted lord could be described like you have quoted him describing our efforts. In the garbage answer contest, I say he has every right to complain that two of his brothers got away before he could screw THIER wives like he did to his brother raja's wife Claudia. The little girl Navlata is the result of that affair. In the eastern thinking, since there is no concious aware power, who cares what you do? It is all just a big fat oneness and an illusion anyway. Do I win a quote? I'm leaving again tonight so I'll have to go to the library in princeton to read up. And reenter this fun contest. I wanted to hear that video. Thanks for putting it here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 18:07:50 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: bill Subject: Seven Tease Message: In the garbage answer contest, I say he has every right to complain that two of his brothers got away before he could screw THIER wives like he did to his brother raja's wife Claudia. The little girl Navlata is the result of that affair. In the eastern thinking, since there is no concious aware power, who cares what you do? It is all just a big fat oneness and an illusion anyway. Wow, Bill - I'd never heard of this. Is there a thread on this back in the archives that I missed? If it is indeed true, then you have won the very special 'out of the vault' ego-quote from the Big M. I've been saving this one, you know. I feel it's very appropriate if indeed Mr PPR felt that one Durga Ji was not enough. Here goes: This is a statement I make not because of ego - but I am good at what I do. It's my privilege, and it is great grace in my life, that I have that ability and I know I have to do everything to keep it - it's my effort. But it is also my responsibility. This is what I want to do in this life. I could do many things, I do do many things, but this one - I want to do impeccably. Congratulations Bill! Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 18:20:50 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: TD Subject: Gag and Barf Message: This is a statement I make not because of ego - but I am good at what I do. Even if he does say so himself. No, no ego there! Sorry, you fat jerk, we will be the judge of wht you are good or bad at, thank you very much. Good at what? Fucking people over and playing god all the way to the bank? Living high on the hog and screwing your own devotees? Encouraging them to drop out from the world and contribute zero even to their own families? Yeah, that's what he 'does' and, unfortunately, for some people he has been pretty good at it, I will give him that! Thanks for those quotes, TD. Very enlightening. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Aug 10, 1998 at 18:15:04 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: JW Subject: Another ego quote for you Message: JW, I think you're being a tad ungrateful, don't you? After all, despite those little incidentals that happened along the way, he IS still responsible for ANY happiness you've experienced in your life. Cop this one: My benchmark is - when people enjoy their lives, I've done it. We're not talking about changing that. We just want to increase it, not change it. Because it's good, and it took a lot to get there, and it's going to take a lot more to get where we would like to be. There are so many wonderful people, they want to help, it'll be a wonderful thing. Maharaji, I hate to burst your bubble, but you brought more jackshit than you did enjoyment to our little ole lives! Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 19:36:48 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: bill Subject: Bogart Prashad? Message: The pot smoking stories like the one from Malibu mole about Donner and rawat are heavy to read and should have thier spot on the site somewhere perhaps. Wasn't that a term we passed around back then? I never really knew what it meant until now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 22:42:22 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: TD Subject: What is it with the 70's? Message: 'but when the next Master comes I want to make it nice for him or for her. So that they don’t have to put up with the kind of garbage I did - that they can go on and enjoy, because it should be enjoyable. Spreading this Knowledge should be enjoyable and we have to set that standard.' TD, you win the Quote of the day with this one-a really beauty! I guess this justifies the need for fundraising...money sure makes the life of the master (or the master to be-his daughter?) 'enjoyable'. VP Don't knock the 70's, they made me what I am today;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Aug 11, 1998 at 08:21:25 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: VP Subject: What is it with the 70's? Message: Thanks for the accolade VP! I could give another quote, but I don't think any of us could stomach any more quotes, in fact I don't think I can write any more of those quotes without passing into pukedom. However, just give me the word if you feel we need another dose.... Regards, TD Oh, alright then, just another litte one (I'm addicted!), and this one is for all those little Aussie premie battlers out there: What is possible for Australia? Everything is possible for Australia. But what is it going to take? It's going to take - relentless commitment. Oh yes Master. Anything you say Master. Three bags full Master. (I feel like Renfield to Big M's Count Dracula). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 02:50:30 (EDT)
From: bill..*>* Email: None To: Everyone Subject: buddha and beer Message: Greetings prolific posters I posted a couple posts to bobby last weekend and this is the continuation of that. Well Bobby, I worked with my tibetian buddhist friend this week and also stumbled upon an interview with two tibetian buddhists (from tibet) that was done on national radio and had call in questions, they played that interview twice and I got to hear it both times. I asked my friend the question I asked you, which was, The tibetians (and all buddhists) believe like the catholics, that there is an after death hierarchy of attainment and if people are 'holy' enough, they go and attain one of various slots. Saints, levels of attainment, holding spots, that are closer or further away from the goal of each religion. He said yes. Which is true for the religion and also for him and also for you. I asked him does he think the intelligence has a self-aware part. He said no. The detailed answer he gave about that was Lama quality in its understanding of buddhist belief. He knows his religion thats for sure. So I thought about it and the next night I said OK. Lets say that the Tibetian buddhist view is correct and the after life view is too. If I say that, I am left with only two possible options. (unless this flaming forum can come up with a third). (at this point let me save someone from derailing into flaming the logic with dawkins style logic--dawkins mistakenly thought that intelligence sprang from matter, but since you cannot reduce intelligence and conciousness to matter, he is 100% wrong.) During the formation of buddhist thinking, the people alive then had no way of knowing that the earth and man were not always there. It all looked like a constant oneness that someone could just define for the others. Since intelligence was the design computer that worked in concert with elements and matter to evolve life forms, and since intelligence was required to construct the buddhist after death hierarchy of attainment, If I fully accept the buddhist view, I am left with two options. Either the intelligence that was self aware enough to make the after death hierarchy still is around. Or after it made the buddhist wheel of life system, and the after death system, it decided to just obliterate itself and say that all the self conciousness is now only in the humans. In the humans alive, and those in the after death hierarchy construct. Well Bobby, which one seems like the way things are? I offered a third to my friend, which was, the first human to have enough of a lifespan to attain some after death power, constructed the after death hierarchy because the intelligence that was part and parcel of the living life forms evolution didn't do anything with the after death arrangements and so the first buddha type constructed it. Do you pick the third? To me, this is core stuff and relates completely to the maharaji forum. You probably want to know my friends answer. It stretched him to the outer edge of the theology and He is going to answer monday, I guess we are at the point of completing theology. Take a guess! What the heck. This is not beyond you. Maybe CD will chime in with a brew pub comedy line. Perhaps he will start a brew pub thread sometime and we can all compare notes and stories. Certainly the Brits have a lot to say about that I am sure. Kieth can use his 1,000 character posting limit on that thread! It is his turn to make us laugh. MB=mucho beer? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 03:28:23 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: bill..*>* Subject: buddha and beer Message: at this point let me save someone from derailing into flaming the logic with dawkins style logic--dawkins mistakenly thought that intelligence sprang from matter, but since you cannot reduce intelligence and conciousness to matter, he is 100% wrong.) Bill, Okay, okay, what have you read? How do you know it's wrong? 100%? Well why not, I suppose? (Maybe you should make that 110?) Let's get down, Bill. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 19:38:35 (EDT)
From: bill Email: None To: Jim Subject: suds and satguru's Message: Jumping Jiminy I went to post the response and the dang computer froze. Dang. I will get back to you in a few days ok? Rats, the post was what I wanted. Where is Bobby when you want him? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 03:44:52 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: bill..*>* Subject: quaint Message: you cannot reduce intelligence and conciousness to matter Who says? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 03:46:42 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bill Subject: only read one of those Message: Hey, you just got my alternate reply! Give it back! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 17:18:35 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: bill..*>* Subject: Holi Beer Message: >Maybe CD will chime in with a brew pub comedy line. Holi Beer Monks Do The Wild Stuff Now for some Holi Guacamole! CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 19:44:36 (EDT)
From: dvd Email: None To: CD Subject: blue nun's and frothy monks Message: You like the Orval CD? I will start a sudsy stories thread one of these weekends. For your fun and to cause a brew ha ha. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 21:59:12 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: bill..*>* Subject: buddha and beer Message: I really don't know Bill. I've got too much other stuff going on and to be honest, I'm kind of overwhelmed. The theological aspects seem kind of boring to me this evening. Sorry if that's a disappointing answer. Maybe another time. Regards, Bobby Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 21:26:12 (EDT)
From: Bill Cooper Email: None To: Everyone Subject: a few thoughts Message: I remember a while back Jim suggesting Bob Hoskins as a suitable actor for the role of GM. I have been running this movie, which is a bit like Dallas, in my head when I read bits of information from here, but good as he may be I don't see Bob in the role. I know there is no physical resemblance but it always turns out that GM is Jack Nicholson flitting between smooth and greasily charming to psychopathically angry in my movie. Who is Monica Lewis ? I read the thread about her and thought it was just a joke on Bill Clintons peccadillo recently. I presume she is a real person. Has she been fucked by the lord of the universe? Watching Emille go through his contortions with ex's I thought it is getting so routine, the pattern is becoming familiar. I wonder if there is any way we can package the key questions so that premies have to put up or shut up instead of getting the continuos written diarrhea. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 22:13:48 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Bill Cooper Subject: a few thoughts Message: Has she been fucked by the lord of the universe? The difference between Lewinski and Lewis is the same as the difference between twelve times and twelve years. Read recent (still active) posts. But then again, haven't we all been fucked by the lord of the universe? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 23:57:32 (EDT)
From: Bill Cooper Email: None To: Nigel Subject: where? Message: Sorry Nigel I cant find it. What thread is it under? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 14:55:21 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redrow.demon.co.uk To: Bill Cooper Subject: Sorry, can't find it either... Message: It was one of Jim's that confirmed the affair (many independent sources have also confirmed it), and it may have been JW who posted that he'd heard about the same ongoing affair from around 1986, but hadn't mentioned it before, since he wasn't sure if it was just rumour. They're probably in the 'inactive' page now. Regards, Nigel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 22:20:37 (EDT)
From: Sean Leary Email: seanl@texas.net To: Bill Cooper Subject: a few thoughts Message: Hi, I am not actually responding to the previous msg, this was just the first place I could post to. Found this site by accident, was searching for Elan Vital sites. Read through as much as I could, really enjoyed it. Appreciated how the documentation of Maharaji's spending habits and organization was not bitter or slanted, just truth. But I especially liked this forum. Been so long since I have heard people say 'were you meditating when you said that?' and 'you must be in your mind', and anything about Michael Clegg, heheh :) Saw a few names in the white pages that I recognized from COLL. Well, I should probably not hang around here, cause I am an unrepentant premie, sorry :). Sean Leary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 23:52:25 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Sean Leary Subject: Wait before you go go Message: Well, I should probably not hang around here, cause I am an unrepentant premie, sorry :). Sean, You are more than welcome to post here. Or, alternatively, you can find your way over the new premie pirate radio site (where the only psots, so far, have been in the nature of 'what kind of trap is this?'). If you want to talk about anything without fear of harsh criticism, or 'flaming', you can post on the Magical Mystery Tour site too. There's a link around here (in fact, it's the site we were discussing below). Or maybe you'd like to just go for a walk by a lake or ocean. We have ex-premies standing by throughout the english speaking world and then some who'd love to buy you a coke and chat a bit. Not into coke and looking for a little bit more out of life? Chris Dickey, our resident tight-lipped cult apologist may be up for a beer or two. He's in San Diego. You can usually reach him here if you put out the right bait. Or maybe you'd like to stroll down memory lane with good old Bal Bhagwan Ji (aka Satpal aka Guru Maharaj Ji). There's a link here too. I even heard he's touring a bit. You won't know if you don't ask. Yes, Sean, there are premies, ex's and even Holy Family members waiting for YOU and you alone. If you're really a premie, you'll recall how you KNEW that Maharaji had found you by his grace and that nothing's really an accident. This post, to, Sean, is not an accident. This, Sean, is the universe telling you straight: you bin tricked, Sean Jai Sat Chit Anand Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 03:21:10 (EDT)
From: Sean Email: seanl@texas.net To: Jim Subject: Wait before you go go Message: Jim, lol! Yes, have been tricked before, and will no doubt be tricked again, by that pesky Universe! Well, thanks for the kind invitation, I will probably lurk around for awhile then. Sean Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 03:42:14 (EDT)
From: red heart Email: red_heels@hotmail.com To: Sean Subject: Wait before you go go Message: Ah, so another premie has found Doubts and Complaints Central here. It's no trick. Knowledge works, and Maharaji is speaking frequently around the world, with video events in many, many, many cities in the U.S. and around the world. When you want the REAL truth, Maharaji is the Man! Feel free to e-mail me if you want the info line number for your area, will be happy to look it up. Maharaji offers a bridge to the heart. Within this website you can nurture doubt and confusion, but hey, that's already strong in all of us. Who needs it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 03:57:37 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: red heart Subject: What an offer! Message: Feel free to e-mail me if you want the info line number for your area, will be happy to look it up. You know, in the old days, meeting a fellow traveller along the path to God realization, a fellow premie, gifted with the true knowledge of the living Lord, a fellow lover of that Lord, was a very beautiful thing. Ever run into a premie out in the middle of nowhere? Ever pull into a strange town, go to the local health food store, meet some premies, look into their eyes, see that light of recognition, follow them home and rob them? No, I'm just kidding. But it sure was cosmic feeling the enlightenment transform us, as we'd share our experiences in love and trust. But NOW, red, what do you have to offer? No sit-in-the-kitchen-for-a-little-late-night-satsang about how incredible-it-is-watching-Maharji-change-us-and-the-world so quickly-so-amazingly. No honestly-excited-sharing-of-discovery in the depths-of-our-meditative-experiences. No, all you can offer this new comrade is a wall socket to plug him or herself (Sean?) into. It's like that old Japanese sci fi flick about the mushroom people. At the end of the movie everyone from the ship's been lured onto the island and turned into mushrooms. So there's a field of mushrooms swaying back and forth with little people faces chanting 'come join us! Come join us! We are the mushroom people!' So here it's 'come join us! Come join us! Sit in front of the TV!' You gonna do this for the rest of your life? Let's say you're 37. Let's say you live another 37 years. You gonna spend 37 more years watching Maharaji's videos? And how many videos will you buy by then, red? Oh my God! Know what I think? I think this is beginning to look like a cult! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 07:35:04 (EDT)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: red heart Subject: Wait before you go go Message: RH: I am at a loss. What are you doing here? You seem like one of those creatures one sees in the headlights at night, stunned to see the headlights rushing up. Do you really live in such a fantasma? Do you hear nothing but your own voice? Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 18:29:40 (EDT)
From: JW Email: joger02@aol.com To: Sean Leary Subject: Hi Sean Message: Hi Sean, How the hell are you? I'm Joe Whalen and I remember you well from COLL. A very nice guy as I recall. By the way, Mark Appleman posts here occasionally as well. Did you know Michael Clegg has become a guru himself? I doubt if you would be surprised. All the best, even if you ARE still in Texas. (Just kidding). E-mail me if you like. I'd love to see if you know where Coll alumni might be. Joe Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Aug 10, 1998 at 00:00:46 (EDT)
From: Sean Email: seanl@texas.net To: JW Subject: Hi Sean Message: Hi Joe! I am ok, and yes, still a nice guy, I hope :) email me anytime, if you want. Yours was one of the names I recognized from the white pages. I don't recall Mark, probably I should. I haven't kept contact with any COLL premies either, just some of the community people. I think I managed to find that pirate premie page, hope the guy doesn't take it down too soon, I have been meaning to post there, just haven't had the time. Looking around, this information about the Radhasoami tradition is so interesting, I am going to get some of those books. And love reading the posts from ashram ex-premies. I was never in the ashram, but always looked up to them, you know?, and was so sorry to see the ashrams closed. Well, I want to go read what these guys have to say about guru-free meditation now, got my own opinions on that, too :) See ya, Sean Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 00:09:55 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bill Cooper Subject: a few thoughts Message: Bill, You're right about Bob Hoskins. But who? I don't think Jack either. This is a real problem. But Monica's a real girl. Sighted and confirmed by several. Watching Emille go through his contortions with ex's I thought it is getting so routine, the pattern is becoming familiar. I wonder if there is any way we can package the key questions so that premies have to put up or shut up instead of getting the continuos written diarrhea. This is a great idea. Kind of like a 'Premie Challenge' quiz that all premies who care to prove their clarity and unflinching respect for the truth could step up to. Why don't you start something, post a draft and we can all bounce it around? Even if no premie actually volunteers it'd be a nice rhetorical device. A conversation piece at minimum. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 03:26:30 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Jim and Bill Subject: In Hong Kong Message: Definitely get Bolo, who fights Van Damme in a couple of his movies. That's absolutely definite. Who is Bob Hoskins? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 04:00:30 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Runamok Subject: In Hong Kong Message: Bob Hoskins is an English actor. Rent The Long Friday. I think that's what it's called. The Long Good Friday Or Something Like That. English gangster film. Incredible. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 06:24:57 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Runamok Subject: In Hong Kong Message: Or Mona Lisa or Who Framed Roger Rabbit?or Hook. Actually, you might want to bypass the last two, unless you've got kiddlywinks, but Bob Hoskins IS in them all... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Aug 10, 1998 at 18:01:18 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: TD Subject: In Hong Kong Message: Dear TD, Kiddlywinks...LOVE IT! Weren't you the lady who posted 'Totally Foxy'....You know I loved that too!! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Aug 11, 1998 at 00:13:13 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Robyn Subject: In Hong Kong Message: Thanks for your appreciation of my quirky vocab, Robyn! TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 20:01:22 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Everyone Subject: ''Life is for the Living...'' Message: And other banalities. Hi Everybody, I just watched (part of) Long Beach Video. I was stunned at the triteness, the meaninglessness, the emptyness of the BM's words. It was BORING most of all. I fast forwarded through a lot of it, Patty walked away early and I finally just shut it off. I mean, how long does this thing go on and on and on... This was my first experience of the BM as adult. I presume the rather large breasted babe singing is his daughter. How lame. The people in the audience looked like zombies. I can't believe ANYBODY could fall for this shit in this day and age. I mean ''where's the beef?'' I'm seriously beginning to doubt there is something call ''enlightenment.'' This just about put the lid on it for me. I can't wait to go see Michael Clegg. I'll probably get thrown out. I've had it. It's SEX, DRUGS AND ROCK N ROLL for me from now on. Sheesh. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 20:32:51 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Gerry Subject: ''Life is for the Living...'' Message: You're right. The old-timers stay because he's the LORD. The new people don't stay very long. The emperor has no clothes on, and he's not even lying very well anymore. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 20:45:47 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Gail Subject: in 30 words... Message: ...you've said it all, Gail. (Keith please note) Nice. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 23:09:51 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Gerry Subject: ''Life is for the Living...'' Message: Dear Gerry, I've had it. It's SEX, DRUGS AND ROCK N ROLL for me from now on. Sheesh. I thought you were a party boy! :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 09:47:44 (EDT)
From: premie-no-more Email: None To: Everyone Subject: just following orders Message: Greetings ex's, The agya thing is interesting. I remember a few of them but, in those days it was taken for granted. If the Lord of the Universe could not give you orders who could? It was generally thought that you can only have one master which meant not only putting the Lord first in terms of dedicating time and money but in obedience. When you have the ultimate benevolent dictator you would be a fool not to listen and obey. What else are you going to do - trust your own ill-informed judgement ? (which was just 'crazy mind' anyway). We were taught that as individuals we could not make any progress towards a happy and fulfilling life unless we followed the path of 'knowledge'. Although Maharaji did say that 'knowledge' was absolutely essential he did say that if, as aspirants, we were not attracted to DLM then to go off and look anywhere we liked for it but if we did not find it elswhere then we could be sure that he had it and was offering it to us. This was said with such confidence that I don't think there were many who wanted to bother looking anywhere else as all that anyone could ever wish for was being offered right there. All the fools without knowledge were just pursuing transient pleasure which would undoubtably lead to dissapointment.We were so lucky to have been given the 'gift' which was guaranteed to provide salavation and would be even greater fools than non-premies if we were to not practice. Even worse than not practising was turning our back on our Saviour for which there was the punishment of eternally being 'cut off' because the link between disciple and Satguru, once broken, could never be repaired ( the punishment for actually calling He who is greater than God some of the things Jim and others have called him on this forum were beyond being mentioned as no one could ever imagine them ever happening - unless they came from the revolving head of Linda Blair in the process of being exorcised) How did I mistake all this for what a premie recently told me is 'a straightforward organisation that just wants to teach a method of relaxation and self awareness? Seymour the Doomed Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 12:25:43 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: premie-no-more Subject: just following orders Message: 'Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven', Seymour (or so said Lucifer in Milton's Paradise Lost, if I remember it properly). I can relate to that. That was a great post Seymour. Very well expressed, indeed. Cheers, Nigel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 14:57:14 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: premie-no-more Subject: At least the sex is better Message: Great post, Seymour. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 17:21:37 (EDT)
From: seymour Email: None To: Jim & Nigel Subject: just following orders Message: Cheers lads, One slight quiver though. Isn't there something in Paradise Lost about a bunch of characters sitting in the corner of Hades somewhere discussing the meaning of life? I hope that's not us. Hasta la vista Seymour Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 18:56:38 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: seymour Subject: just following orders Message: Dear Seymour, Yes, I think it is us! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 05:43:40 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: New-old Indian stuff online Message: More of those old Indian sweet dreams on a new page on my website: Life of Shri Hans, old Indian DLM of the 60s and 70s, K as given at that time. Satgurudev's dreams Some excerpts: ..... Born in the hilly area of Badrinath, he was destined to play an important role in establishing the true religion which had been polluted by superstitions, rituals and evil practices which had crept into the mainstream of Indian society with the lapse of time. Born in a Suryawansh, or sun dynasty, he inherited the greatness and the glamour of the Raghu dynasty. He was a descendant from the lineage of Lord Rama's family...... ....As a disciple, Maharaj Ji was the example of total surrender. His life was austere and simple, his whole being was bent upon truth and all lesser concerns melted and disappeared before his eyes. His Guru said of him, 'I am in Hans' heart, and 'Hans' is in my heart ' The differences between Guru and disciple dissolved into basic oneness. Maharaj Ji lost his personal ego and became one with his Guru, attaining supreme cosmic consciousness...... .........Maharaj Ji told the Baba that silence of the mind is more important, in fact indispensable, on the path to God, while silence of the tongue is but an outward show. One who does not still the mind by meditation, but only outwardly controls his senses by force, is a hypocrite. ............ Lord Rama called Bhilini, assuring the 'Rishis' that if she were to enter the ponds the water would become purified. Bhilini entered, and sure enough the pond became crystal clear and drinking water was restored to the forest. ............ The fearlessness of Maharaj Ji became proverbial as was his love for the poor. ...........Ever since its inception, the Divine Light Mission has been actively engaged in the propagation of the tenets of Universal Love and brotherhood of man and of the imperative need to serve the poor and the oppressed. ......... The Mission aims at achieving the unity of nations and the oneness of mankind by instructing them on the technique of utilising the universal primordial Force, that is, the Holy Name (Word) which is the same as the Divine Light and which pervades all human beings thus bringing to the fore the eternal principle of unity in diversity. It is only the spiritual bond of the Holy Name and the Divine Light that can knit together the diverse peoples, even as the thread holds together flowers of varied colours and scents into a gorgeous garland. ........... It is also the object of the Mission to make provision for the relief against distress caused by ill-health or natura1 calamities by establishing and maintaining hospitals and maternity homes and dwelling houses......... and on and on and on !!! Enjoy, my dear brothers and sisters in the name of God! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 06:44:53 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: New-old Indian stuff online Message: Thanks for all your work on this Jean-Michel. Ever since its inception, the Divine Light Mission has been actively engaged in the propagation of the tenets of Universal Love and brotherhood of man and of the imperative need to serve the poor and the oppressed. ......... I wish Maharaji wouldn't be so modest about his and his father's charitable acts for the poor and the oppressed over the years. I wouldn't think he was 'blowing his own trumpet' if he revealed to me the kind of work that DLM has done for the poor and oppressed. I mean if he's not shy to show us the statistics for the number of people who have received Knowledge over the years, then he shouldn't be shy to show us the statistics for the amount of service done for the poor and oppressed. The numbers must be truly staggering... Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 10:35:41 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Merci beaucoup, mon ami. Message: Merci pour vos efforts! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 15:40:53 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: Merci beaucoup, mon ami. Message: JM, Well done. It looks great. Your pages really give some depth and foundation to all this stuff. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 18:58:45 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jim Subject: Not over with it Message: I still have plenty of excellent stuff, but my scanner is not very fast, and it requires some editing. My satisfaction is that the whole thing is very coherent, and there can't be any speculations about m's background and philosophy, whatever the revisionist trend might be. The bases are still the same, and will remain, otherwise the cult will collapse. I hope that the new premies and aspirants will be able to read this, and that these materials will remain availablle and accessible. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 23:09:30 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Chain of command Message: This is a quote from The Shobies Story, a story in Ursula LeGuin's book: A Fisherman of the Inland Sea. It seems relevant: A chain of command is easy to describe; a network of response isn't. To those who live by mutual empowerment, 'thick' description, complex and open-ended, is normal and comprehensible, but to those whose only model is hierarchic control, such description seems a muddle, a mess, along with what it describes. Who's in charge here? Get rid of all these petty details. How many cooks spoil a soup? Let's get this perfectly clear now. Take me to your leader! Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 23:29:06 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Carol Subject: Chain of command Message: I have seen my organization (oxymoron) struggle with this these last 6 years or so. At first I was the chain of command type and quite upset by the seeming chaos but now, I can see some good devlopments come out of it. The group empowerment and communication that she calls 'thick' is at this late point tangible and real and a good thing. Good people are stepping forward and leading where they never would have before. We have had and will have some rough growing pains though. Thanks Carol. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 19:42:42 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: MICHAEL CLEGG WAS A PREMIE! Message: I am almost certain that Michael Clegg was a premie, and was, in fact, one of the originators of the City of Love and Light in San Antonio. His wife was very nice, and I recall she was Italian. The picture on the website sure looks like him. Funny how he uses 'satsang' and other premie-speak but doesn't mention his former premie status. Anyway Michael Clegg got sent to prison in Texas (minimum security, for what I don't recall for something he supposedly did before receiving knowledge) and proceeded to make himself a guru to the other prisoners. We used to go up to Dallas and put on 'satsang' programs for prisoners who were mostly interested in the premie sisters. Anyway, Michael Clegg was a true jerk. I never met anyone with such a huge ego. He took personal credit for converting half the prison. I am not at all surprised that after he got out of prison he has set himself up in the drug trade, made lots of money and then made himself some sort of guru, continuing to scam people. If this is the same guy he is not good news. If you see him, be sure to ask about Guru Maharaj Ji and the City of Love and Light!!!! God, I can't believe this!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 19:47:20 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: JW Subject: You Already Knew That -- Sorry Message: I should have read the whole thread down below. If you want some Michael Clegg stories, I would be glad to share some. Christ, what a scam artist! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 20:03:00 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: glyng@techline.com To: JW Subject: You Already Knew That -- Sorry Message: Looks like posts passing like ships in the night... Yeah, I'd love to hear MC stories. I hope it isn't too off topic, I don't think so, but email or MMT forum would be fine also. But I think the people here would be interested, (Except maybe Runamuck--snicker) I'll tear him a new asshole if he's a fake, and would appreciate all the ammo you can give me. This is gonna be fun and well worth ten bucks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 20:05:10 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gerry Subject: You Already Knew That -- Sorry Message: I'll tear him a new asshole if he's a fake I think you're putting yourself at risk of having your MMT security clearance revoked with this kind of talk. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 19:58:06 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: JW Subject: Another ex-makes good (or bad) Message: ...depending on how you see it. I did mention he was a premie, in a rather terse reply to Runamuck in the thread entitled ''Is this legal?''' Only I got it wrong, you're correct, JW, it was San Antonio, not Houston. He makes no bones about it. He does mention it in his book, BTW. I would like to know a little more about him from your prospective, though. So he went to prison twice, huh? After he left M he went into the drug trade (although MDMA was legal most of the time he was making it) and was put into a very rough county prison in Florida for two years. It was there he claimed to have seen the light and says he is now living in some elevated state. Who knows? I prefer to judge for myself, even at the risk of ten dollars. :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 20:02:34 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gerry Subject: How? Message: I prefer to judge for myself Just curious, how will you judge him? Do you know? Is Patty going? What if I rob your house when you're both gone? What if I get all the Mormons n the neighbourhood over for a barbecue? You ever think about these kinds of things, Ger, before you just go off making plans like this? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 20:31:41 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: How? Message: Well, it isn't until the 14th. Sparkie is still in training but should be up to about six pounds of pure muscle, claws and fangs. Should be enough to hold off any Mormon invasions or barbarians from the North. Of course, Patty is going along to make sure I don't get hypnotised and sold off into cult slavery in Costa Rica. I'm wearing a homing device just in case. I trust my finely honed bullshit detector and that along with a little help from my friends ought to do it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 18:02:19 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Trying to Keep Up Message: Dear everyone, I am not even caught up with last week's posts (hell, I got back from the desert, and there were 3 forums to monitor, phew! Gotta get some work done too, ya know?), and now I'm off for a weekend of fru-fru, karaoke bars, and mountain climbing in Big Bear. I plan to clean out my aura while I'm at it. Anyway, I wish you all a great weekend. Note to Brian: Full Moon rising--best set up that Moon Lodge Forum soon before the PMS kicks in. The Forum III continues to provide me with lots of laughs and support as I untangle my twisted past with Maharaji and you all. Maharaji, if you're listening, could you please send some really well-programmed robots to argue your side here? Get someone slick to try to talk me into giving you my love so's you can give me peace. Because for the life of me, I can't figure out what I ever saw in you. Love, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 18:09:33 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: eb Subject: What the hell is fru-fru? Message: Hi eb, Have a great weekend. Er, what is fru-fru, exactly? (forgive my Anglo ignorance) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 18:19:55 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nigel Subject: What the hell is fru-fru? Message: Ahhhh...Nigel: You see, the crow has come home to roost (e.g. bandycoot). :-) :-) :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 18:46:12 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Mike and NIgel Subject: What the hell is fru-fru? Message: I always thought it was spelled 'frou-frou' and meant frivolous stuff. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 19:27:26 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Katie Subject: It Takes A Drag Queen to Know Message: A couple of drag queens I know will tell you that 'frou-frou' is the rustling sound of silk -- and I think it also means showy ornamentation in clothes. I think it means to have fun in a firvolous sort of way, and eb, my dear, you deserve it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 21:45:05 (EDT)
From: Selene the Queen Email: None To: JW Subject: It Takes A Drag Queen to Know Message: Not always JW. Some of us girls get really into clothes and ornaments. I interpret the fru frou stuff to mean 'just for fun' or extraneious, which would be a good explanation for anythihng on forum that doesn't fit the dominant theme (refuse to use the word paradigm, can't spell it anyway) You do deserve your weekend eb. Enjoy it for me!! Selena .. no vacation since Mexico in April. waaahaaha Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 16:01:11 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: all Subject: none the wiser... Message: ...but I could probably do with some. Gimme some fru-fru now! - before I disappear up my own fundamental beliefs. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 15:49:21 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: You can too Message: Hey, guys, you, too, can write ineffectual letters to Elan Vital. Here's one I just sent: August 7, 1998 EV, Inc. (By fax to 818-889-6522) 5321 Derry Avenue Suite G Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Att: Linda Gross, President Dear Linda: Re: hi Well, it’s Friday and I take it you’re at the EV office. How are you? I’m fine myself, thanks. Linda, it is my understanding that EV has asked one or two people to monitor the ex-premie site. At least someone in Toronto’s doing that service or so I’m told. What I’d like to know is if, from your perspective, there’s anything we could be doing better? What I mean is this – as you explained, EV keeps inviting Maharaji to speak at your events and he keeps accepting. WE keep inviting him to drop by the web site and we hear nothing. Are we doing something wrong? I’ve thought that maybe he’s bothered that people gossip about him and his affairs (no pun intended!) but then I thought, no, he’s bigger than that. Was it the blueprint to the Malibu house? Was there something inaccurate or out-of-date there? Look, I’m just fishing in the dark. All of this is beyond me in a way. Hey, call me ‘guileless’, I don’t mind. I’m just looking for a little help. Any suggestions? Sincerely, Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 15:59:53 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Jim Subject: You can too Message: That's great Jim. Please let us updated on her answer, if you get one. She must find some amusement in your letters, unless she is so far gone that she only gets annoyed. Thanks for the laugh. I've missed forum this week,but the full moon has made people so emotional here it may be just as well taht I am so busy. ha ha hee heee gotcha...... Selene the moon goddess Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 20:08:30 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Selena Subject: You can too Message: I'll pretend to not read the last part of your post. Ms. Gross hasn't replied to any of my recent letters. Ever since she wrote me to say we had to stop meeting like this. She did, if you recall, leave the door open for me to inquire about EV matters. She didn't say she'd answer me though. Oh well. SIC (Shrug in Chair). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 20:21:27 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Selena Subject: So that's it Message: I've missed forum this week,but the full moon has made people so emotional here it may be just as well taht I am so busy. I was wondering why I was a bit ''techy'' today. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 16:00:33 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: You can too Message: Jim, of course you know you are going to hell. Mr. Hammond-Smythe will concur with this opinion, I'm sure. Why didn't you ask for another meeting with Raja Ji? He's on tour and might be in your area soon. Better yet, find out if Raja Ji will meet with a group of ex-premies to answer questions. Linda might be able to organize such an 'event' and 'invite' Raja Ji, since that's how all those programs are operated anyway. Why not? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 16:16:39 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: Anything else, sire? Message: I just sent this one too: August 7, 1998 EV, Inc. (By fax to 818-889-6522) 5321 Derry Avenue Suite G Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Att: Linda Gross, President Dear Linda: Re: Raja Ji Hate to bother you again BUT I just heard that Raja Ji is touring up here in the northwest and meeting with premies. I wonder, do you think it would be possible for you to give me his number if you have it? As I told you before, he and I met once and discussed Maharaji’s mission back in the late 80s. I’d like to follow up. Thanks again. Sincerely, Jim PS. I heard this funny rumor that Pierre Trudeau .... naw, never mind. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 17:11:05 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Funny guy Message: You are a funny guy, Jim. Yes you are. Ha ha ha! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 01:17:02 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Jim Subject: You can too Message: Dear Jim, You sure right some funny letters! Keep bothering her until she responds! Love, Mickey the P. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 15:32:26 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Raja Ji Message: I have heard that Raja Ji is touring, and that he was at a recent event in Seattle, at which he spoke and they showed videos (how exciting!) Has anyone else heard about this 'tour' of the somewhat dense younger menber of the family cult business? Certainly if he comes to my area, I will run, not walk, to get a glimpse of him. Visions, if you get this message, can you e-mail me a schedule? It would be much appreciated. Jai Satchitanand. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 16:03:09 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: JW Subject: Raja Ji Message: Why would enyone WANT to see him? Whaever happened to BholeJi by the way? He was hilarious. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 16:14:15 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Selena Subject: Bhole Message: Oh, just found the musician thread Mike started down below. Never mind my question. well, my other question is sincere though. Why is he touring? Is he trying to help with all the meditation teaching lessons M is supposed to be giving? btw, premies out there, very little of his speeches at those guru-dos address how to meditate so I don't really get that name. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 17:09:56 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Selene Subject: Humility ! Message: He's teaching humility, the only way to experience anything regarding no-ledge. No wonder you still don't know the Name, you've got too much ego! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 17:03:45 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Selena Subject: Raja Ji Maharaj Message: He's the most hollow premie I've ever seen! He's hammering he loves his 'master' ... I couldn't believe it. And he's after money, but there's no chance you'll get invited to one of those 'secret' meetings! As for Bholay Ji Maharaj, he's Shri Satpal Ji Maharaj's assistant, I guess he's into money too ! Can you imagine having those 4 guys together on a podium ? 4 Gurmukhs of the lowest cast! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 20:21:39 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Raja Ji Message: I've been to see him a couple of times in Toronto. He always comes to tell us that Canada isn't giving enough money. It's always a push for money. I wonder what his take is on the proceeds. I imagine he has to pay high maintenance fees to Claudia. What every happened to her. Is she still a part-time concubine to you know who? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 20:40:27 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: Raja Ji Message: When I had my drink with Raja Ji he couldn't wait to tell me, a total stranger, that he was frustrated with how little money Maharaji was giving him them. No shit. Scout's honor. I kid you not. He was a part-time instructor in New York then. I guess the Lord of the Universe wasn't too hip on the high cost of living in Gotham. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 13:49:52 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: This is a repost of a portion of a post from Runamok: ' 'Watch who'll be feeding all the people'. It was agya in India NOT to give money to the pitiful beggars who would have been overjoyed by a dime. 'Watch who'll be feeding all the people'. And this was the stuff that made me think I was in the best place and everyone in the world would be taken care of.' Thanks Run! I brought it to the top because I thought it was a travesty that M would give personal AGYA to 'NOT feed the people.' Of this, I was never aware. I think this is some serious food for thought (no pun intended) concerning M's motives. It brings up some good questions, too. Like, has M donated any money at all to any charities? Has he made any concrete attempts to feed the people? I remember an old saying, 'when a pick-pocket meets a saint, all he sees is the saint's pockets.' (Sorry, it's the only one I could remember). If a person is DYING from hunger, how much thought is this person going to give to their spiritual well-being? Sounds like M shot himself in the foot (read that: got stupid) on this one OR he didn't care a wit for their plight. (Guess which one I vote for). In my reply post I said that I was thinking of a lot of words to describe this agya, none of which were fit to print (sailors vocabulary, ya know). I haven't cooled down one bit! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 14:02:18 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Mike Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: 'when a pick-pocket meets a saint, all he sees is the saint's pockets.' This phrase certainly could be applied to some of the expressions that routinely happen on this forum. YMMV. (disclaimer: I'm not saying Maharaji or anyone else here is a saint) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 14:19:21 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: (disclaimer: I'm not saying Maharaji or anyone else here is a saint) What ARE you saying? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 14:12:50 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Mike Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: I was in India twice with Maharaj Ji. I don't remember that 'agya'. Of course, there was lots of shit thrown around in them days about Maharaj's agya this and Maharaji's agya that. I loved the DUO initiative and was sad to see it go so fast. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 14:25:56 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: Bobby: IMHO DUO should be the only thing that still exists! Well, ok, I really think the whole thing should disappear since it's run by a charlatan (sic), but at least the premies that were trying to make DUO work had their hearts in the right place. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 15:01:21 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Mike Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: I really liked DUO too, and I and others did do some community service things too after DUO started. It was great, because doing community service was supposed to be like doing service to M. (Apparently M did NOT feel this way!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 17:09:26 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: lotuspower@aol.com To: Bobby Subject: What are you feeding me Message: Bobby, Yes you were there... you were there. And you know what- I was told not to give money to beggars and it hurt alot one day when I did as I was told- followed yet another sick agya. Honest dude, are you implying that I am liar? You were there and you never heard that. Or don't remember. At any rate, don't you remember enough similar platitudes and maxims about the knowledge 'feeding you for life' to realise that what I am recounting is a distinct possibility? Couldn't you give me the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming that fraudulent accusations are being made about M? We have a few things in common as ex-premies- why not stay closer to our unity instead of asserting your ex-insider status on this forum? School's out Bobby. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 21:36:48 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Runamok Subject: What are you feeding me Message: Hey Runamok, didn't mean to accuse you and didn't imply that you are a liar. Are you implying that I am a liar? I gave money to beggars in India. Didn't hear (or forgot) that it was 'agya'. Like I said, lots of 'agya' was being thrown around left and right by pious premies. I 'disobeyed agya' (so called agya relayed via security WPC and other security honchos) by doing things like leaving Prem Nagar to go into town, buying stuff outside the ashram, even smoking some dope with sadhus. Sorry but I don't feel unity with a lot of the loud opinions here. Neither did I feel unity with those devotees who constantly sang 'The Lord of the Universe Has Come to Us this Day'. I'd like to feel more unity, but have gotten insulted and verbally abused here for speaking my honest views. I don't regret my experience with Maharaj Ji. I have my own perspectives. Don't want to push them on anybody. Please don't push your perspectives on me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 21:41:16 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Hydroponics Message: Sorry but I don't feel unity with a lot of the loud opinions here. Oooooh, that is so novelle! 'Feel unity' -- yeah, I kind of like that. Until now I used to think and speak in terms of agreement, disagreement, the usual. No more, though! I feel unity with you on this, Bobby! Hey this is great! A whole new way of thinking! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 22:13:26 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Bobby Subject: What are you feeding me Message: Bobby I know what you mean to some extent. I love the forum but don't always feel like the extremity is necessary or useful. Jim has already responded to your post in his usual fashion Here we go again.. I can already predict what this thread will look like in a few hours. Me? Psychic? doubt it. and 'the LOTU' was inspirational at times to me in the seventies but when I heard the K-lite instrumental 6 mths. ago it gave me the creeps big time!!! Really I felt almost nauseous. It was a warning sign that I paid attention to. Thanks whoever played it. You confirm the obvious that music has always been a major influence in my life, even if it is scaring me... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 22:26:49 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Selene Subject: What are you feeding me Message: Thanks Selene. Even though I'm extreme and intense in ways I know that my view is just my view and others have other views. I just don't like the 'other' views that expect my view to be like theirs. For the most part I'll not be responding to Jim. Really, I hated the Satsangs with endless repetitions of LOTU. Never really was into the devotional carping. I liked the honest expressions of personal experience. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 23:18:14 (EDT)
From: Selena (can't decide yet) Email: None To: Bobby Subject: satsang Message: Hi, Bobby I think most of the ex's *are* ex's because we cared more about the people we were involved with than we did the religious trip - that just helped us gather around something. And those days, it was hip and cool to be into enlightment via a shortcut, whether it be M or acid or whatever. Did you read my acid generation quote from HST? He summed it up rather well. So, we had a focus, a community, bizarre as it was it was more than many of us had before. It's just the wrong model for us now. And I believe it to be the wrong model for most people. That is one reason I am still here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 22:36:48 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Selene Subject: I don't know if that's enough Message: Bobby I know what you mean to some extent. Selene, I'm not sure if you guys are feeling unity yet. Close, though. Hey, I don't mean to be negative. And I certainly don't mean to ridicule. Sorry. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 23:36:46 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Jim Subject: It's enough Message: I am just happy to have time to be back here!! It's been a rough two weeks. Loved your letters to Linda as well as many of your posts. We all have our good and bad side. Hang in there. I will too. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 00:57:27 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: lotuspower@aol.com To: Bobby Subject: What are you feeding on Message: It's easy to echo- I asked why you doubted me because you hadn't been privy to the same info. If you were doing the security trip then you were supposed to be real 'inside'. Sometimes the inside misses the stuff that's on the street. I don't doubt any of what you say about your history. I just don't understand why you want to react with 'I never heard that' or some variant (which casts doubt on what is being said)- AS IF YOU ALWAYS KNEW EVERYTHING THAT WAS HAPPENNING! I'm not calling you a liar. Why or how do you get that? It's not a name calling game. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 14:20:24 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mike Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: Ohhhhhhh..... I think my brain just turned-on. I know why he gave that agya. In the hindu caste system, they would likely be 'untouchables.' God forbid we give anything to an untouchable, after all we (the royal we) are of the priestly (brahman) caste and cannot associate with THEM!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 14:33:49 (EDT)
From: Selena Email: None To: Mike Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: When I was stupid enough to bring my (new at the time) husband to a video last year, he asked me those same questions Mike - did M give to charities, etc. I told him the standard party line about ' they will just be hungry the next day but this K stays with them for life' (gag) but I also asked around because I wanted to answer his question honestly. I couldn't find ANY info or evidence of M giving. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 15:02:23 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Selena Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: Selena: And that kinda ties-in with the lotu thing. Follow me here... IF M is just a meditation teacher, what he 'gives' doesn't feed people. Why doesn't he give to the charities that do? Better yet, why don't the premies give their hard-earned cash to the charities that do? Instead, they feed the greed of an overweight 'meditation teacher.' People will not meditate if they are starving to DEATH. So that 'K will be with them for life' stuff just doesn't wash. Yeah it'll be with them for life...let's see... that should be about 5 more hours because this guy's STARVING TO DEATH! If M were lotu, I think he would have ALREADY FED all the people, so they would have a couple of brain cells left to rub together and listen to him. So which is it premies? Is he lotu (and just too busy to feed/care-for the people) or just a 'meditation teacher' that is too selfish to share his seemingly infinite monetary wealth? Yeah, like he really needs a 30 million dollar airplane to propagate. Hasn't he heard of carpooling? (you know...commercial airlines) It saves the ozone layer, you know! Selena: Boy I'm on a tilt about this agya thing.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 22:20:59 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Mike Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: I recently read a Newsweek in a dr's office about the famine in Sudan: 15 people dying a day, 1000's of refugees from war between Islan govt and mostly Christian rebels. The farmers had to leave thier crops and the famine is expected to continue at least thru 1999. The biggest UN food drop is being undertaken to alleviate some of the suffering. Just one more religious war. Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 22:37:52 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Carol Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: Just one more religious war. You got that right. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 22:43:34 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: I think we should send them our excess American agricultural commodities, not that I have any vested interest in it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 22:51:30 (EDT)
From: Carol Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: What would happen to your vested interest if it was sent? Carol Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 23:26:40 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Carol Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: Actually Carol, my vested interest is tiny, tiny tiny in the grand scheme of things. I could never understand why we couldn't just ship our excess to the countries and people who are STARVING and DESPERATELY NEED what we have in excess. It just doesn't make sense to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Aug 10, 1998 at 00:04:43 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mike Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: Dear Mike, Bingo dear! I figured that was a given from your first post in the thread. I'm quite sure your brain will turn on plenty of times before mine that is why I had to mention it this time! :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Aug 10, 1998 at 00:30:10 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Robyn Subject: the untouchables I mean! (nt) Message: nt, lordy this is coming in handy. how have I missed it all this time, but now it isn't no text, just a treat for those breezing by. :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 15:15:56 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Mike Subject: Agya Message: Hi Mike - just a clarification on the agya thing. At that point in time, any member of the holy family could give 'agya' (I sent Jim an old Divine Times in which there is a letter printed where Maharaji takes away agya from Mata Ji and Bal Baghwan Ji.) Also, Bobby is right that there were always a lot of rumours about agya. But, suffice it to say that M doesn't run many soup kitchens! I HAVE heard that he does feeds the premies who come to programs in India - I am sure that SatPal (Bal Bhaghwan Ji) and other gurus with large followings do likewise. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 15:39:34 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Katie Subject: Agya Message: Katie: That's true about any of the ahem... holy family giving agya. I remember that, now that you mentioned it. His actions now don't change anything, though. I think it's great that he might be feeding premies in India, but what about those who aren't premies. If you only feed those that 'love you,' I don't think that is selfless charity by anyone's definition. Feed those who 'think you stink,' and you will get my vote for selflessness. Yes, what Bobby said could be true in this case as well. If Bobby is right, why wasn't it stopped by M (I know he was very young) or by another member of the family, then? If you are going to be LOTU, you've got to have a better handle on your universe, you know? Saying 'I didn't know' doesn't make it when you're supposed to be god. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 15:46:18 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Mike Subject: Agya Message: Mike - regarding feeding Indian premies - I don't think a lot of them would come to the festivals if they weren't fed. I believe that it's traditional for gurus to do this. (I am not sure who pays for it.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Aug 10, 1998 at 00:34:21 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mike Subject: Agya Message: Dear Mike, But he was just a baby god. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 15:46:29 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Mike Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: Like, has M donated any money at all to any charities? Has he made any concrete attempts to feed the people? I assume this is a rhetorical question. Of course he hasn't. Are you kidding? He didn't even preach (except for a brief period in the early years surrounding the DUO proclomation, which I think was really just PR) any caring for people, and he certainly never took any actions to be an example of a caring person. Regarding the DUO initiative. It was also the thing that got me involved. I saw M and his cult as dind of like the Peace Corps, Project Hope, and CARE, all tied into the power of the perfect master. Of course DUO had a shelf -life of approximately 15 minutes in M's world, because all ther resources went to allow him to live like the Sultan of Brunei, and there was never any time or money to do anything for anyone else. As Katie said, for a couple of years in the early 70s, we actually did some community service like in senior citizens homes, etc. and that was considered service. However, that was all thrown out quite quickly, and about 1977 Maharaj Ji gave satsang in which he said, explicitly, that 'service' was ONLY to Guru Maharaj Ji, and whatever you did for anyone else was NOT service. And since satsang, service and meditation were ALL that you were supposed to be doing, all humanitarian, community service, and the rest, including caring for your own kids, was something less than service. You were only to do what you absolutely had to, and then all the rest was to be SERVICE TO GURU MAHARAJ JI. So much for saving, feeding, clothing, and caring about one's fellow man. In fact, I don't believe I ever heard M, in all the years I listened to him, speak in caring terms for anyone other than his own family. Most of the time he made fun of the people of the world, he certainly never suggested that he or the premies might consider contributing something to their welfare. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 16:26:36 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: JW: Yes, those were absolutely rhetorical questions. I posted more comments below the initial post. This subject just riled me up a bit. I'm not claiming to be mister charity (I give, but could I give more? Probably so), but then again I never claimed that I would save the world, feed it or whatever. I do what I feel I can do. But I have never, I repeat never, told my wife that she WILL NOT GIVE to anything or anyone! I've NEVER prevented anyone from pouring out their generosity, either in time or money, to those that need it. This applies to my military career, as well. Many of the men and women that worked for me gave much of themselves to community projects and good works. I NEVER discouraged this (nor did any commanding officer). In fact, quite the contrary, the military encourages the activities. Now, remember, we're talking about the military here. That's not exactly the primary purpose of the military, yet many military members make significant sacrifices to make these activities happen. (I can tell you a few stories about where the 'homeless' people in San Francisco were after the last BIG quake)Now, here we have an organization, led my a 'meditation teacher,' that made the claim to bring peace to the entire earth (that's the stated mission) and they haven't done squat to make it happen. Oh yeah, some will say, 'But they have K, it will last them a lifetime.' That doesn't mean much to a person that will be starving to death in a few days (I know I said this in another post). If you want peace, the people have to be fed. The MOST DANGEROUS people in the world are hungry people. But, then again, I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 20:20:30 (EDT)
From: Diz Email: None To: JW Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: Hi JW and all I'm an ex who has been monitoring this forum for a couple of weeks now. Can't help myself jumping in on this one. One of the nails in the coffin of my involvement with MJ was a video I saw at a program about five years ago - it was being shown in a 'drop in' room, don't know how widely it was circulated - in which MJ said explicitly that putting energy into 'causes' was a waste of time. Now I know that it is possible to argue whether a particular 'cause' validly identifies a need, let alone validly provides a solution. But this was a blanket statement. I was working at the time in the human services area, and although I certainly saw some pretty screwy motives and some less-than-useful work, I also saw some great stuff being done. Human stuff, people working to support people, people who gave a damn about others. And who did what they did with consciousness, looking at where they might be creating dependence or otherwise causing harm. At the time I was still trying to stick with the program, and this video really threw me. Wow, what justifications I, and other premies, engaged in to rationalise this sad stuff. I am proud now to have some connection to people who do try to act like neighbours in their community, at whatever level. So good to be back where 'community' isn't a limited to a bunch of smiling guru-worshippers who believe that love is only inside, and that service is only valid when pointed towards GMJ. Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 20:23:42 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Diz Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: Welcome Diz... YEA VERILY! Your post hits it right on the head. I've got to go, but I did see your post and wanted to say WELCOME! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 16:37:21 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Diz Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: Hi, Diz Thanks for the info. on the 'causes are a waste of time' subject in the video. I guess if we (or Maharaji) rationalized everything away, anything we do is a waste of time. I mean, we are all going to be dead, so why do anything? What a depressing way to think and live! I am glad that some people like you still believe you can make a difference. It feels good, too, doesn't it? I also thought DUO was one of the better ideas. Too bad it never manifested. Welcome to the forum, VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Aug 10, 1998 at 00:46:30 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Diz Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: Dear Diz, Hey, welcome! Thanks for the post. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Aug 12, 1998 at 13:32:51 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Diz Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: Diz, thanks for that. I'm not surprised M would say something like that. He said similar things over the years. I think I've stated before that shortly after I left being a premie, some premie friends took me to an introductory program in Miami. It was in November, 1983. This was during the time of the nuclear freeze movement, when Reagan was rattling nuclear weapons, star wars and all the rest against the Soviets. After his little rambling talk, people in the audience were allowed to ask M questions. One woman asked about bringing peace to the world and the importance of the nuclear freeze movement, and the need to eliminate nuclear weapons. Well, Maharaj Ji just completely put her down. He said it was a total waste of time to be involved in something like that. I doubt he even understood what she was talking about, and that might have been part of the reason he dished her so badly, but she persisted and he just acted bored and put her down again. He was very condescending and arrogant with her. This interchange just reinforced my feeling that I had made the right decision is splitting from his cult. The premie friends I was with agreed that he was condescending and out of touch. They both left shortly after that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Aug 10, 1998 at 00:40:25 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: Dear JW, Thanks, now I know, I thought I was in a community that just didn't push the stupid rules but now I see I was in in the early 70's and did do service in Vet hospitals etc. By 1977 I was drifting away big time, mostly just going to Miami in May and November, not bad times for vacaions either. :), $76 round trip flights and $6/night to stay (with 10 other premies in the room) at the Fountain Blue hotel in Miami. Didn't hurt me to bad. Then when I moved back to PA I lost all touch. Thank god. Love, Robyn Haven't posted to you in a while, hope all is well, I was jealous I didn't get to meet you! :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 17:21:36 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Mike Subject: DLM's purpose Message: His attitude is totally opposite to the old DLM'S status ... I guess that's why they had to change them! I'll have them on my website (Indian Background) in a few days, I'm working on this these days + plenty of those old fairy tales some old Indian booklet is full of, regarding Shri Maharaji's life etc, all the stuff old mahatmas would recall in every satsang etc Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 21:22:05 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Money Message: You know, when I was a premie, since GMJ was God, every time I found a quarter on the sidewalk, I thanked Maharaji for it (and I did certainly need it). I didn't have any money left over for charity, but when premies, aspirants and potential aspirants came to my house, I fed them, gave them whatever to drink...this was a result of my middle class upbringing -- not anything Maharaji said to do. Also, we frequently had premies overnight, until they could find their own place to stay. I remember a very nice group of French premies who we tried to help along. At one point we had an aspirant living with us, she was the sister of an ashram premie. She ran our phone bill way up and it was disconnected. I wrote a mean letter to her sister, trying to get the money for the phone bill. And haven't spoken to her since. I've always felt bad about that, since we were friends with the ashram premie sister since way before knowledge. So if you're out there Debbie, just want to say I'm sorry. I would rather have had your friendship than the phone money. After 20 years, what difference does it make? None of us had much money in those days, with all the traveling to festivals and giving at satsang. Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 20:36:01 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Mike Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: >I brought it to the top because I thought it was a travesty that M would give personal AGYA to 'NOT feed the people.' Of this, I was never aware. I think this is some serious food for thought (no pun intended) concerning M's motives. Its not 'food for thought'. Its BS and slander. CD India 72 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 20:45:19 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: Its not 'food for thought'. Its BS and slander. That's it? That's your whole defense? God! Like Emile the other day. You guys are just knee-jerking. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 20:51:14 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Jim Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: >That's it? That's your whole defense? Yeah! I'm calling BS BS. What an idiotic theme of a thread to glob on to. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 20:59:01 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: I'm calling BS BS. What an idiotic theme of a thread to glob on to. Chris, Right now it looks like you're my only friend here, bud. (sniff, sniff). Chris you understand me, don't you? You agree, don't you, that it's not fair to call you a lame jerk, loser bonehead cult member because you're not willing to openly examine your beliefs and yet to let others off the hook for the same reason? Come on, Chris, I'm trying to get a witness list together. Anyway, besides that, Chris, what do you think of Carol's note that Maharaji swore on the bible to bring peace to the world? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 22:41:31 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Jim Subject: Saturday, Saturday, ... Message: >Right now it looks like you're my only friend here, bud. (sniff, sniff). Chris you understand me, don't you? I know its Saturday night and you've probably had a few, maybe even some of that good Tequila. You certainly have plenty of admirers on this forum. And probably some people who like your band. You are a hard worker. Clever. Very persistent! Believe in yourself. And are good with words. Yes, I do understand you! Cheers, CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Aug 11, 1998 at 00:05:01 (EDT)
From: op Email: None To: Jim et al Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: Hi guys. I know I haven't written in a long time. I'm not going to give longwinded explanations of why, nor will I make promises about the future. But I did want to say something about India. Beggars and all. First of all, the begging industry is a mafia in India. It's very hard for a westerner to recognize which person is really dying of hunger and which is putting on an act and will take a hefty heist home to his Fagan that evening (except for the lepers, who are pretty obvious, due to missing bodily parts and other noticeable signs of physical degeneration). This may sound very crass and lacking in human compassion, but look at some facts. Children are still routinely sold to the begging industry. They are sent out to beg until they are about five or six and begin to become streetwise and lose their innocent appeal. At that point they are often maimed in order to pull in more money - a hand or foot amputated, an eye blinded. If they are smart enough to get away and avoid this fate, their main business activity then becomes theft or pimping. The girls usually do not get away. They are maimed as often as the boys, and when they reach puberty, they are turned into very low class prostitutes (how much would you pay for a woman with one leg, or a burned face?) I am not making this up. There have been reports over the years, and the practice does not seem to be ending. On the sexual side, this is one of the major causes of the huge spread of aids in India (another aside: the street beggars turned prostitutes don't have very much choice about their clients, and there is a very high incidence of aids among them; phase 2: what man will admit to his wife that he's been spending his r&r money on a blind prostitute? end result, man, wife, and possibly children pick up the virus from said prostitute). The Indian embassy will tell you not to give money to beggars. The taxi drivers will let you know that most of the beggars are far wealthier than they are. When I went to India in 71 and was told that it wasn't a good idea to hand out money to beggars, this was explained to me. I'm sorry those on the forum hadn't heard about it. In fact, there was a rather famous saddhu in Hardwar. He was thin as a rail, and spent his days in the village covered in ashes and begging. In the evening he would go home to one of his five houses. Premies were among his best customers, because he was very good at giving out a bit of spiritual advice (and at agreeing with you about whatever you were into). I've had experience with beggars. I've spoken to them and I've been with premies who've lived in India for years and will tell a begging child a story to make him laugh, but will not give him money. The child then admits he's not really hungry and runs off. That's it for the vicious cycle story. Feed one beggar today, and there will be ten knocking at your door tomorrow - all babies the first beggar bought from their mothers with the money you gave him in the first place. I'm going to write another one about M's programs in India and the food found therein. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Aug 11, 1998 at 00:32:43 (EDT)
From: op Email: None To: all Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: At all events in third-world nations, food and shelter is provided for those who come. There is a huge central kitchen at the ashram in Delhi, and I've had the privilege of eating the food cooked there. It's as good as any higher-than-average restaurant in India. This past April, 80,000 people attended the three-day event. I can vouch for the numbers, although I don't know how many people ate from the central kitchen and how many brought their own supplies. 10,000 aspirants were on the land early, preparing for the Knowledge Sessions. That would mean the event actually lasted about a week. (Yes, there really were 10,000 aspirants. I saw them.) DUO also still exists in India. There is a rather large school, and many other projects. But for me, the incredible thing is still to see the self-reliance and self-confidence that M encourages in people. I'm sorry that you see his message otherwise. All these people feel an overpowering love for him and are willing to spend their time coming to see him because he's put them in touch with that aspect of life that makes living more enjoyable, more worthwhile. And please don't be so chauvinistic about third-world nations. There is a feeling among Americans especially, but Westerners in general (not confined to the ex-premie page), that anyone with other than a European background or education is slightly subhuman. Africans, Indians, South Americans, are no more gullible or less intelligent than your average Canadian - please don't think M has a larger following in third-world countries because those people are stupid. You recently had a thread where someone asked about at least one time when M put himself out for others, where he showed human compassion, care for another human being besides his imediate family. I know of hundreds of such incidences. I'm not going to recount any here - pearls before swine, you know. I'm not accusing forum members of all being swine, but there are certain elements that will play the sweetest music and fart all through it, or piss in the apple cider. A couple of you know my email address, and I am willing to recount some of these to individuals. have fun Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Aug 11, 1998 at 06:40:18 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: lotuspower@aol.com To: op Subject: optical illusions Message: I appreciate you addressing the actual issue Op, but I could have given a quarter away and the one beggar I saw would have been thrilled. It's nice to romanticise but many of us have heard endless talk of specific long term service goals to benefit the world and seen those goals give way to M's greed and endless hunger for money while countless premies burn themselves at both ends trying to serve him. It's the 'food' we remember that we served to each other that makes us glad to meet here, now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Aug 11, 1998 at 10:39:14 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: op Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: But for me, the incredible thing is still to see the self-reliance and self-confidence that M encourages in people. What proof do you hve of this? I say the opposite and I have proof galore. Premies think they need to see Maharaji, that they need to traipse off to this place or that and hear him talk, or that they need to watch a video of him. A video? A TON of videos. Obviously that indicates only MAHARAJI-reliance and MAHARAJI-confidence. Premies defer to Maharaji's judgment about what they should even allow themselves to question or talk about. M-reliance, not self- reliance. And on and on down the line. What you're saying is absoltuely stupid. I'm sorry that you see his message otherwise. All these people feel an overpowering love for him and are willing to spend their time coming to see him because he's put them in touch with that aspect of life that makes living more enjoyable, more worthwhile. Again, how do you know? You don't. You're jsut saying shit. And please don't be so chauvinistic about third-world nations. There is a feeling among Americans especially, but Westerners in general (not confined to the ex-premie page), that anyone with other than a European background or education is slightly subhuman. Africans, Indians, South Americans, are no more gullible or less intelligent than your average Canadian - please don't think M has a larger following in third-world countries because those people are stupid. Subhuman? No. Less intelligent? No. More gullible? Yes, at times. It's all a function of culture, education and communciations and media exposure. Dustin Hoffman's character wasn't necessary any more intelligent or human than John Voight's in Midnight Cowboy but, because he was New York street-wise, in some respects he might as well have been more intelligent. That is, at first, Voight was like a baby in them there streets. Well, Maharaji's slick show doesn't sell in the west anymore (what was that? 336 initiates in North America last year?) because we've see enough of these Indian flim flam men to make the whole thing too boring for media attention any longer. Been there, done it. We've been exposed to cult leaders of all sorts selling their wares and then, sooner or later, being exposed as charlatans. We've learned. We've got a vigorous, skeptical and, yes, cynical, press that enjoys tearing this shit apart. You know, I emailed a number of Inidan press organs asking them if any of them were interested in the story of one of their (regional?) Ministers of Finance who happened to also be the breakaway guru in the Shri Hans family business. I mean, how rich! A story about some big shot in the Congress party who used to stump for his kid brother as the Lord of the Universe, who stated categorically that the aliens ahd already landed in South America to go to satsang and that they were coming to Millenium, the comet Kohoutek, etc. Not a single journalist got back to me. I'm saying that this story wouldn't go unnoticed here. Do you disagree? recently had a thread where someone asked about at least one time when M put himself out for others, where he showed human compassion, care for another human being besides his imediate family.I know of hundreds of such incidences. I'm not going to recount any here - pearls before swine, you know. Well, with an argument like that no one's going to think you're anythnig but an unrepetant cult apologist who doesn't herself believe what she's saying. If you did you'd give us the examples. What we do have are LOTS and LOTS of examples to the contrary. TONS. Maharaji's been consistent about one thing over time, premies shoudl give him money. AND he's got the wealth to prove it. Really, OP, unless you've got some better cards to play you shouldn't bother sitting at the table. I'm not accusing forum members of all being swine, but there are certain elements that will play the sweetest music and fart all through it, or piss in the apple cider. A couple of you know my email address, and I am willing to recount some of these to individuals. How ugly and precious at the same time. Go fuck yourself, OP. You wasted a lot of everyones' time when you were here last. You'd make all these apparently sincere preparations for real discussion, you'd rpomise honest, careful deliberation but, in the end, you'd either stonewall or skate off in some evasive loop of nothingness. Really, who needs this? Why don't you jsut go back to lurking so that your mind, the real honest part of you that you can't squelch no matter how much Maharaji goop you try to laquer it with, can enjoy some truth without interruption. have fun Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Aug 11, 1998 at 11:50:05 (EDT)
From: jethro Email: None To: op Subject: Watch who'll be feeding.... Message: 'All these people feel an overpowering love for him and are willing to spend their time coming to see him because he's put them in touch with that aspect of life that makes living more enjoyable, more worthwhile.' I spent some time in India in th 80s (not only at festivals) and lived in the Delhi (maharoli) ashram when Iwas there...and yes the food was good....although the chef decided to leave and make a life for himself. I met alot of Indian premies and noticed that many of them have many gurus who they have been initiated by. They go to all the festivals of all the gurus and get darshan and a meal. The same applies for Malaysian premies (I lived 8 months their in various premie communities), if you visit many of their homes you wil find Sai Baba's picture intheir houses as well as prempal's. By the way did you see sampuranand beating any premies...or isn't that piblic any more........oh..oh...I forgot it's part of their culture, isn't it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Aug 12, 1998 at 12:39:00 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: op Subject: TO op, KK and JM. Message: Hi, OP. Thank you for these anecdotal statements about M's so-called compassion. But you don't appear to deny that at least in the west, M has done zippo to encourage that premies, and certainly NOT the organizations he controls, lift one little finger to benefit those less advantaged than they in their communities or anywhere else. In fact, I have personally heard on numerous occasions M deride and make fun of people who have thought to get involved in various humanitarian causes. According to people who have heard him recently, he is continuing that line to this day. I certainly can't speak for what goes on in Inda (JM AND KK certainly can, Hey, you guys can you respond to what op is saying?) But I can vouch for the LACK of any such actions or even rhetoric by M in the west, except of course the early DUO years. I can give specifics if anyone is interested. They are very numerous. As I've mentioned, it was partly my desire to help the people of the world that I got involved with Maharaj Ji in the first place. Since he was at that time advertising that he would be feeding and clothing humanity, as well as bringing peace to the world, I believed him. Unfortunately, we all know that was just a limited trip he was on, and later he made fun of people who engaged in such endeavors, and the vast majority of the resources his devotees generated went to supporting his lavish lifetsyle rather than anything remotely humanitarian. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 21:02:26 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: CD Subject: How many times do I have to Message: say this: Slander is SPOKEN: LIBEL is written. Anyway in order to be libel, it has to be untrue and proveable as such. Try another term, please. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 20:53:36 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: CD Subject: Alibi City Message: No CD, and you don't know. You just wish you could be sure it wasn't true. And there was the satsang that went with it- you can feed somebody once but then they will be hungry again. If you teach them how to get their own food then they won't need you again and again -by receiving knowledge. It never did make sense then so don't try to stick it on me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 21:39:34 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Alibi City Message: >No CD, and you don't know. Oh really. How interesting. Who the heck are you telling me what I don't know. I believe what you say about as much as I believe that your name is Runamok. Your attempt to portray M as saying that people should not be fed is lame, a misunderstanding you have or worse. 'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.' How often have you had that problem with a horse ? CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 21:57:36 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Runamok Subject: giving Maharaji $ Message: ...and if you give Maharaji 10% of your income this year, then next year he will still be looking for that 10%...so, better to let him figure his own way with the Big K. ;) Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Aug 08, 1998 at 22:06:38 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: CD Subject: Alibi City Message: Cute, Chris, thanks. You got Sparky all riled up and he danced all over my keyboard...ngjdtiriw6724io9.;gae5y6 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Aug 09, 1998 at 03:24:09 (EDT)
From: Runamok Email: None To: CD Subject: Just wash your dishes after Message: Poor Chrissy! Did someone the bust the image of your big fat guru? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 11:59:38 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Memories of India 1971 Message: I found this on the net. You may find it interesting. Click here for India memories Especially if you were there in 1971. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |