Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 27

From: Oct 20, 1998

To: Nov 4, 1998

Page: 5 Of: 5



NI -:- Still waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 09:59:19 (EDT)
__Mike -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 11:21:17 (EDT)
____Selene -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:52:43 (EDT)
______NI -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:22:38 (EDT)
________Selene -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:30:31 (EDT)
__________NI -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:35:23 (EDT)
____________Selene -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:39:42 (EDT)
____________Robyn -:- While you are waiting -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 09:28:28 (EDT)
______________Selene -:- While you are waiting -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 12:11:50 (EDT)
________Robyn -:- While you are waiting -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 09:24:22 (EDT)
____Gail -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:59:19 (EDT)
______NI -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:09:08 (EDT)
________Mike -:- You know... -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:18:04 (EDT)
________Gail -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:21:59 (EDT)
__________NI -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:26:25 (EDT)
____________Robyn -:- While you are waiting -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 09:56:07 (EDT)
__________bill -:- gail, he DOES edit. -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 21:34:51 (EDT)
________Jim -:- You're pissing me off -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 20:27:48 (EDT)
____NI -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:17:26 (EDT)
______Mike -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:21:11 (EDT)
________NI -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:29:59 (EDT)
__________Mike -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:39:18 (EDT)
____________Ni -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:55:14 (EDT)
______________Mike -:- What, you haven't delivered? -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:04:29 (EDT)
________________NI -:- What, you haven't delivered? -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:17:23 (EDT)
__________________Mike -:- What, you haven't delivered? -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:32:15 (EDT)
__________________Robyn -:- What, you haven't delivered? -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 10:05:41 (EDT)
______Selene -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:34:43 (EDT)
________NI -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:01:04 (EDT)
__________Mike -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:10:57 (EDT)
____________NI -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:20:52 (EDT)
______________Mike -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:39:08 (EDT)
__________Jerry -:- While you are waiting -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:30:47 (EDT)
__________Jim -:- Now you're making me laugh -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 20:33:31 (EDT)
__________Gail -:- Jim or I will find the quote -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 22:09:28 (EDT)
____________Jim -:- Jim or I will find the quote -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 11:33:08 (EDT)
__________Robyn -:- While you are waiting -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 10:16:24 (EDT)
____________NI -:- While you are waiting -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 13:51:42 (EDT)
________Robyn -:- While you are waiting -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 10:12:30 (EDT)
__________NI -:- While you are waiting -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 13:56:10 (EDT)
____________Robyn -:- While you are waiting -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:48:21 (EDT)
______________NI -:- Final tought -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 14:47:32 (EDT)
__________Selene -:- thanks Robyn -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 14:48:26 (EDT)
____________Gail -:- Thanks for the support, folks. -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 20:45:00 (EDT)
______________Mike -:- You bet... my pleasure! -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 10:44:09 (EST)

RT -:- Tendjewberrymud ;) -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 22:23:40 (EDT)
__What Bill Clinton says to -:- his new interns: I haven't -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 23:12:05 (EDT)
____JW -- Off Topie -:- Election Commercials -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 00:32:29 (EDT)
______Mickey the Pharisee -:- Election Commercials -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 01:59:35 (EDT)
________JW -:- Lungren the Devout -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:15:48 (EDT)
______eb -:- Election Commercials-off topic -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:00:43 (EDT)
________JW -:- Election Commercials-off topic -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:27:27 (EDT)
________Guru Mariachi -:- Election Commercials-off topic -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:03:56 (EDT)
__________Mike -:- Election Commercials-off topic -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 10:55:21 (EDT)
__________Mike -:- OK, OK... Oh my Guru -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:59:41 (EDT)
____________Guru Mariachi -:- OK, OK... Oh my Guru -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 16:44:11 (EDT)
__Sir David -:- Tendjewberrymud ;) -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 02:04:42 (EDT)
____RT -:- Oh yeah? -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:21:04 (EDT)
______JW -:- Oh yeah? -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:06:42 (EDT)
________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Oh yeah? -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:09:00 (EDT)
__________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Yeah! -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:11:16 (EDT)
__Bobby -:- Chinese Dictionary -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 22:32:36 (EDT)
____Mike -:- Chinese Dictionary (off-topic) -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:55:24 (EDT)
______Bobby -:- Swahili Dictionary (off-topic) -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 13:30:22 (EDT)

JW -:- Requirements for Knowledge -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 20:40:44 (EDT)
__Jim -:- Requirements for Knowledge -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 20:49:48 (EDT)
__Helen -:- Requirements for Torture -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 22:44:40 (EDT)
____beyond the grave -:- Requirements for Torture -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 23:43:06 (EDT)
______Sir David -:- Requirements for Torture -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 01:12:15 (EDT)
________Jean-Michel -:- In Memoriam -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 09:11:07 (EDT)
__________Sir David -:- In Memoriam -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:43:28 (EDT)
____________Helen -:- In Memoriam -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:56:08 (EDT)
______________Mel Bourne -:- In Memoriam -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 09:09:36 (EDT)
________________Jim -:- Poor Mel -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 11:39:56 (EDT)
________________Gerry -:- In Memoriam -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 12:19:19 (EDT)
__________________jethro -:- In Memoriam -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 03:30:11 (EDT)
________________Helen -:- In Memoriam -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 19:54:08 (EDT)
__________________jethro -:- In Memoriam -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 03:36:40 (EDT)
______hamzen -:- Requirements two Torture -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:39:38 (EDT)
________Mike -:- Requirements two Torture -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:45:46 (EDT)
________JW -:- Requirements two Torture -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:46:21 (EDT)
____JW -:- Requirements for Torture -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 00:13:22 (EDT)
______Helen -:- So True -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 17:03:45 (EDT)
__Sir Ated -:- edge-u-cation -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 00:45:37 (EDT)
____Sir David -:- edge-u-cation -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 01:33:11 (EDT)
______Helen -:- edge-u-cation -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:43:25 (EDT)
____Gerry -:- edge-u-cation -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 10:50:21 (EDT)
____Helen -:- edge-u-cation -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:39:14 (EDT)
__Jerry -:- Requirements for Knowledge -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:04:34 (EDT)
____JW -:- Requirements for Knowledge -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:39:30 (EDT)
______Mike -:- Requirements for Knowledge -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:55:41 (EDT)
______Helen -:- Requirements for Knowledge -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:50:38 (EDT)

LIZA -:- Anger -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 16:46:22 (EDT)
__Rick -:- Anger -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 19:34:24 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Anger? What anger? -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 20:17:02 (EDT)

Mike -:- Ignorance isn't bliss! -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:42:21 (EDT)
__steven -:- hurt followers -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:17:45 (EDT)
____Mike -:- My, my, my -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:28:15 (EDT)
______Selene -:- My, my, my -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:33:39 (EDT)
________Gerry -:- My, my, my -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:36:54 (EDT)
________Mike -:- My, my, my -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:42:40 (EDT)
__________Selene -:- I like your posts -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:47:29 (EDT)
____________eb to Mike -:- Hey, get in line! -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 16:09:19 (EDT)
______________Mike -:- Engineer???? -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 16:15:02 (EDT)
________________eb -:- Guru of Lies -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 17:25:17 (EDT)
______Steven -:- not your world -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:53:02 (EDT)
________Mike -:- Yes, it is! -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 16:09:59 (EDT)
________Jerry -:- not your world -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 17:02:12 (EDT)
________Gail -:- Slit people's throats? -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 17:23:19 (EDT)
________Sir David -:- not your world -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 20:29:47 (EDT)
____John Hammond-Smyth -:- hurt followers -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:42:53 (EDT)

Selene -:- did he or didn't he? -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 11:17:19 (EDT)
__Steven -:- did he or didn't he? -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 11:30:23 (EDT)
____Selene -:- did he or didn't he? -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 12:40:40 (EDT)
______eb -:- did he or didn't he? -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:14:33 (EDT)
________Selene -:- did he or didn't he? -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:28:27 (EDT)
__________steven -:- did he or didn't he? -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:24:02 (EDT)
__________eb -:- did he or didn't he? -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:54:59 (EDT)
____________Selene -:- did he or didn't he? -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 19:54:48 (EDT)
____________Robyn -:- did he or didn't he? -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 03:32:02 (EDT)
______________eb -:- did he or didn't he? -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 11:45:53 (EDT)
________________Mickey the Pharisee -:- did he or didn't he? -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:54:54 (EDT)
__________________Robyn -:- did he or didn't he? -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 22:03:43 (EDT)
________Robyn -:- did he or didn't he? -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 03:28:47 (EDT)
__________Selene -:- did he or didn't he? -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:02:39 (EDT)
____________eb -:- Black Leather Girdle-off topic -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:20:31 (EDT)
______________Selene -:- Black Leather Girdle-off topic -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:01:03 (EDT)
__Gail -:- He did say to ignore the net. -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:50:26 (EDT)
____Selene -:- He did say to ignore the net. -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:54:02 (EDT)
______Gail -:- I didn't mean to be rude. nt -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 17:25:06 (EDT)
________Selene -:- you weren't -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 17:54:32 (EDT)

Brian -:- Third World Superstar -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 06:41:46 (EDT)
__steven -:- Third World Superstar -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 11:06:20 (EDT)
____Gerry -:- Lookin' for a feelin' -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 11:32:52 (EDT)
______steven -:- Lookin' for a feelin' -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 11:37:38 (EDT)
________Gerry -:- Lookin' for a feelin' -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 11:53:07 (EDT)
__________steven -:- Lookin' for a feelin' -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 13:00:52 (EDT)
____________Gerry -:- Sweet surrender -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 13:22:41 (EDT)
______________Gerry -:- Sweet surrender 2 -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:33:41 (EDT)
________Mike -:- Lookin' for a feelin' -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 11:53:28 (EDT)
__________steven -:- children know -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 13:13:36 (EDT)
____________Mike -:- What do children know -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 13:27:44 (EDT)
______________Steven -:- What do children know -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:35:16 (EDT)
________________Mike -:- What do children know -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 16:26:27 (EDT)
______________Helen -:- GO GO GO MIKE -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 18:04:25 (EDT)
________________Jim -:- You're asking for it, Steven -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 20:44:24 (EDT)
__________________Helen -:- South Park Cameo -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 22:47:41 (EDT)
____________________Jerry -:- South Park Cameo -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 09:05:46 (EDT)
______________________Jerry -:- South Park Cameo -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 09:27:49 (EDT)
________________________Selene -:- South Park Cameo -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:21:59 (EDT)
__________________________Jerry -:- South Park Cameo -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 20:33:44 (EDT)
________________________Helen -:- South Park Cameo -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:49:42 (EDT)
__________________________Selene -:- South Park - grandpa -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:09:52 (EDT)
____________________________Helen -:- South Park - grandpa -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 17:38:26 (EDT)
__JW -:- Third World Superstar -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 12:46:15 (EDT)
____jean-Michel -:- Third World Superstar -:- Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 13:17:44 (EDT)


Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 09:59:19 (EDT)
From: NI
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Still waiting
Message:
Gail promised on Tuesday of this week that she would give us the transcript of M`s speach about (against) the net. i am anxiously waiting to read this. Gail (and a lot of other people too) mentionned MANY times this point.
Since quoting is a very popular sport on this site....
Give us the quotes!!! AFTER we have read it, we can discuss it and come to a clear understanding of what was said.

Thank you very much for your patience
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 11:21:17 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
NI: Why don't you go over to JM's page and pickup some quotes and bring them back for discussion, in the interim. There are a bunch of them that would make worthy topics.

- Remember that Gail, Katie and others have a life, too. It takes time to find and transcribe a quote from a video. It seems funny to me, though, that whenever a quote is published in the 'active' forum no premies want to discuss it. They just want to say things like, 'you're living in the past,' 'get over it,' etc, etc. That isn't discussing a quote, that's contempt and derision. Instead, they wait until the quote scrolls off into the inactive file and then they demand that we 'prove' that M said that very thing. Then Gail, Katie or whoever, has to go searching for it and repost it. Surprisingly, when that happens, the premies that asked for the quote are nowhere to be seen/heard. I'm not picking on you, if you don't deserve it, but that is my 'experience' with premies who post on this forum, so far. I'll wait to see if you are any different, NI. In the meantime, if you are serious about discussing quotes (new or old), why not pick one up from JM and 'discuss' what you think was really meant by it.

- BTW, You look better in 'caps.'
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:52:43 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
It seems to me a devotee, oops I mean follower, oops I mean premie would just order the May '98 video from visions if they are so curious. I am curious too but since I am of the fallen, I am not going to spend money for the video.

I'm sure Gail will write us. and when she does, I am going to save the thing and paste it in every time someone comes on and denies M said that about the net.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:22:38 (EDT)
From: NI
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
Hi Selene
thanks for the suggestion...by the way...Why do you think i am so sure that he did not say it? i have the tape AND the written transcript on the May 10 event.
and you, selene, why are you so sure that he did say it? you are sure of this because Gail said so...not because you heard it say it...
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:30:31 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
ah, but you see, I have been at events and heard him say things, than bought the video and discovered particular things had been edited out. I know it's done. I have been there as recently as December.
EV has to follow orders and if M decides something he said off the cuff in front of his grovelers may not go over so well in the general public, he has it taken out.
I'm curious what you think Gail's motivation would be to lie to me? Do you think she has a personal agenda with me? with the forum? Do you thnk she is trying to gather a following? What?

I have seen her painfully transition away from what I consider a cult. She was open and honest about her feelings the whole time. So, I tend to believe smeone who is forthright about what's going on rather than an organization that carefully plans and white washes their entire presentation.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:35:23 (EDT)
From: NI
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
Come on Selene
If M. wanted the premies around the world to know that he does not want them to go on the Internet, this would not get edited out of the video, now would it?
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:39:42 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
yup it would, if he thought it made him look bad. And limiting freedom of speech doesn't exactly look good, now does it?
I dont' want to go on about this. My post further down shows one example of editing. Youcan believe it or not i don't give a shit.
I am not in the deprogramming business, take it to someone else.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 09:28:28 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
Dear NI,
I see Selene had the same train of thought as my last post. The point I'd like to make here is that it may not be the premies BM is worried about but the aspirants who have not been 'conditioned' throughly enough to hear that they should avoid the net. They may see that as cult mind controlling.

Selene, was that Dec. event for premies only or could aspirants go too?
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 12:11:50 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
It was for premies only. Funny thing, they had the revisionist form of security at the entrances as people entered, they were just smiling vacantly and letting people through. But when I got there they stopped me and said 'Are you a premie?'
heh. All because, if I recall, I was really annoyed at my traveling companion for being such a bitch to the shuttle driver, and wasn't bothering to hide it behind the company smile.

kewl...
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 09:24:22 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
Dear NI,
I wonder if the tape and transcript were 'edited' like the enjoying life posts may be 'edited'. Just an interjected thought.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:59:19 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
Dear NI:

It took about an hour to locate the tape. Afterwards, I waded through May 8, and half of the morning of May 9. I still have the rest of that one to go. I mailed the evening of May 9 and the last event on May 10 to Jim Heller.

I have a great memory as to what MJ said. I was there and he said not to go out on the net (meaning this site). That's how I found out about this place, NI. If it is not on these two tapes. I will ask Jim to listen really carefully to the Sunday, May 10 event again. I believe that is when he said it. After the final event, a bunch of us went for lunch before flying home.

Lorne McAndrew continued the discussion by talking about this site. That is how he reconnected to MJ's cult after 18 years. He posted here and Elan Vital got in touch with him, so he went to Miami to see MJ.

When I first started reading here, the London contact person told me that MJ didn't want us reading this site. I know I'm not wrong.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:09:08 (EDT)
From: NI
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
Gail,
Lorne McAndrew is not Maharaji...
now...get me the quote...and let`s get this issue over with once and for all.
if nobody finds the said quotes, maybe we shall will be honest enough to admit that he did not say it.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:18:04 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: You know...
Message:
NI: You try to be nice to some people and they just don't get it... SOOOOO.... Who the hell are you, you asshole, to come on here and demand anything. You haven't answered a single question presented to you with anything that even smells of honesty. So get off of your high-horse or just fuck-off you boot-polishing lick spittle. She will get you the damned quote when SHE feels like it... Who died and left YOU god, you demented, flatlining, mindless twit!
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:21:59 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
I've got to go back to class, now. Is there some good reason why I would lie about this. If it has been edited out, does that mean he didn't say it. Just like the filthy jokes he told in Australia. HE SAID IT.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:26:25 (EDT)
From: NI
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
oh i see...now it has been edited...and that is why you can`t provide the quote...
Gail, you don`t have to do the research if you don`t feel like it. it does not matter, i just wanted to make a point and i think that i just did
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 09:56:07 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
Dear NI,
Yes, I agree you did just make a point. That even thought Selene was at an event and HEARD BM say to stay away from the internet, you are still unwilling to 'see the light' and like a good cult member you are sucked right into the controlling action of the editing of material. Sad, very sad.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 21:34:51 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: gail, he DOES edit.
Message:
I waited for a tape of miami early eighties event one time
to hear again the lines I heard him say.
They were edited out so I asked Jean marie the
head of elan vital at the time if they were edited out.
He seemed surprised that I knew that and tried to imply that
he doesnt know if that happens or not.
I told him the lines and he smiled and said, well,
he cant talk about it.

I also have heard him say things and it wasnt in the video.
It is amusing that this guy here is intent on the truth
when he is avoiding the truth at all costs.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 20:27:48 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: You're pissing me off
Message:
Gail,

no, I'm just kidding..

Ni,

You're really bugging me now.

1) Do you acknowledge the fact that it's possible that M has his bullshit talks edited?

2)If not, are you willing to stay at the table while we try to prove the point?

3)If yes, how can you say that didn't happen here?

We can do this but it isn't worth it unless you promise to see the process through. Deal?
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:17:26 (EDT)
From: NI
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
Mike,
i am adressing the internet issue here...
i know it will be a lot of work to find the said quotes because they do not exist!
here is my point: M. never gave order not to go on the Internet.
not responding to this will simply prove my point.
but if Gail (or anyone else) does not want to bother with the 'research', maybe you should not bother to make such wrong statements...
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:21:11 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
NI: Read my post above, twit! She is responding, you imbicile! She has to find the damned quote... or can't you understand simple english. God, you are really a moron! Why are YOU evading my suggestion? Could it be that you are afraid of what you will find there? Fucking coward!
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:29:59 (EDT)
From: NI
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
my my
are we getty a little rough around the edges...
pardon my french, but
mike tu es vraiement un tare de la pire espece. vas te faire enculer espece de merdeux
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:39:18 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
NI: WOW, I'm impressed with your command of french! Shall we speak hopi or hawaiian next, coward! You are right, though, if you infer by this that we don't take orders from you, NI. Sorry, I don't take orders from anyone that worships LIES and the LIAR that told them. You bow at the alter of LIES, you kiss the toes of the LIAR and then YOU LIE and say that you don't! Since turnabout is fair play: I DEMAND THAT YOU SEND YOUR MANUSCRIPT TO ME IMMEDIATELY, otherwise I believe that YOU ARE A LIAR and don't have it. Not next week, not an hour from now, right this very second! Or, I think I may have made my point.... where did I read that before?

- Rough around the edges? Yup, I am when demented little lie-worshippers like yourself come here and demand something.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:55:14 (EDT)
From: Ni
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
here is a NEW technique for you: try breathing in a brown paper bag slOOOwly. i hear it is very good to stop hyperventilation
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:04:29 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Ni
Subject: What, you haven't delivered?
Message:
NI: I gave you a damned order... do it or shut your lying maw, coward!

- Don't you see the simple lesson here, NI? You don't come here and demand anything from anyone. I don't DEMAND anything from anyone here, either. As much as you seem to think otherwise, here's a news flash: YOU AREN'T GOD!

- You premies EXPECT us to believe your personal 'experiences' are real and then when someone else has a 'personal experience,' like the fact that M said he doesn't want you on the internet, you don't believe their experience. Trust and respect is a two-way street, bucko. If you expect me to give you any creedence, at all, then you must return the favor. Otherwise, I can make the same demands of you... 'I don't believe you were in Miami for that program. I think you are lying and just watched the video and told us that you were there. If you were there, PROVE IT!' See?
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:17:23 (EDT)
From: NI
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: What, you haven't delivered?
Message:
Hey Mike
i just asked for a quote...obviously, you don`t have it so you are enraged. 'how dare you demand! bla-bla-bla'
like i said: i was there, i have the script, i have the tape, i have my excellent memory and i have my plane receipt...
but nothing of this matters...even if i do, you don`t care anyway.

i rest my case
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:32:15 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: What, you haven't delivered?
Message:
NI: Actually, I do care. But what you are using as evidence (the video) has been edited. Of course it has been edited! If for no other reason than time constraints. I never said that I, personally, had the quote. I just don't like it when someone comes on here and acts like the god that they aren't. Read your posts, you didn't 'ask', you 'demanded' and that is what lit my match. You say that you have an excellent memory. Well, Gail has an excellent memory, too. So now what? I'll tell you 'now what,' Gail is attempting to find that quote and to find someone else that was there to corroborate it. That is reasonable and will, likely, take some time. If she can find it, she will. Tell me, if she gets the corroboration, will you eat 'crow' and apologize?

- You continue to act like the premie society is totally open. If so, why hide darshan behind a screen? Why hide the ARTI out-takes from the video viewer? Your society is CLOSED! YOU don't even have access to items that I have in my possession. Old stuff; the stuff that HE doesn't want you to know about or see. Why? Tell me, why did HE order the destruction of all tapes and old materials? Why don't you ask him what he thinks of this? Actually, why don't you ask him what he thinks of the internet? That will clear this whole thing up really quick. We would like to ask him, but he doesn't come here to answer ANY questions.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 10:05:41 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: NI
Subject: What, you haven't delivered?
Message:
Dear NI,
I don't usually answer premie posts but have been sucked into this one but it will probably be fruitless as talking to any fanatic religous zealost is!
Do you have any idea how frustrating it is for us to see all the cult programing effecting you premies. It is clear to us as it was clear to those around us when we were in your postition.
I suggest you read the article referenced in the Brainwashing thread. I don't get 'testy' to often and can just stopp this discussion if I see it is becoming absurd. I just wish you or any premie could talk honestly and 'see' some of the points we make here even if you then choose to accept them. Ain't gona happen though, I guess.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:34:43 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
I repeat, I have seen the editing on those dumb videos!!!!!!!
God, here's my example.
In Long Beach 1997 some ecstatic premie yelled out to M 'All Night Long'
To which M responded 'you have been around a while! We aren't having sex here you know'
The hall erupted it was nauseating. I listened and watched for that on the videos and cassettes from that event. nada.
It's not on there. He or someone decided it wasn't fit for publication. Does that mean he didn't say it? You can say whevever the fuck you want NI, I was there, I remember and that's that.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:01:04 (EDT)
From: NI
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
Hi Selene
of course, there is editing! i know that for a fact! (and of course, they edit dirty jokes!)
here is my point...read slowly...:
i said:
if....M...did...not....want. ..premies...to...go...on...the...internet..and...if...he...had....said...that...in...an...event....then...they...would...not...edit...that...part...of...his...message...on...the...video.

got that?
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:10:57 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
NI: Yes...they...would! Why? Because it demonstrates cult control over free thought and speech. Instead, they will pass that 'secret' agya out to all the premies thru the grapevine, just like its always been done. That kind of thing occurred MANY times during my stay in cult-land! Why oh why do they edit ARTI out of all videos? Why oh why isn't darshan in every single video where darshan occurs? What is he hiding? To use your line of logic: If M wanted the premies to know that there was darshan, he would leave it in... BULL! Every single premie KNOWS when M gives darshan (thru the very reliable grapevine). It's edited out of videos to... HIDE... it... from... the... general... public!
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:20:52 (EDT)
From: NI
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
Of course Mike
and i am sure that you think the CIA killed John F Kennedy
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:39:08 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
NI: Now who's diggin'? NO, I don't believe that. Never have, never will. Being a rather well-trained user of firearms, I do have a small problem with the rapidity of Oswald's shots from a bolt-action rifle. He was nowhere near THAT well trained, at any time during his life. In fact, firing that many well-placed shots in the time alotted, is a bit of a stretch even with a semi-auto. But, that's where the evidence and 'corroboration' leads, so until someone comes up with more evidence, I have to go with the findings. Additionally, the CIA isn't that good at keeping secrets. Funny you should mention the intelligence community, though...
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:30:47 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
if....M...did...not....want...premies...to...go...on...the...internet..and...if...he...had....said...that...in...an...event....then...they...would...not...edit...that...part...of...his...message...on...the...video.

Are....you....sure....of....that....? After all, he'd look pretty stupid telling people to stay away from the internet, don't you think?
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 20:33:31 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: Now you're making me laugh
Message:
Ni,

I thought this was going to get interesting but its' just getting stupid. You admit that tapes get edited and your only reason for saying it didn't happen here is because you assume Maharaji wouldn't have. Now this is getting really funny -- we have a premie here who's second-guessing the great Master himself. Too fucking much! Didn't you learn ANYTHING in this cult? Too much.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 22:09:28 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: NI
Subject: Jim or I will find the quote
Message:
if it has not been edited out. I am not lying. Why would I need to. I don't need to protect MJ. MJ told me not to go out on the net. I heard it. That's why I keying in his name. For too many years I kept asking why? I smelled a rat. Did you read the conversation between Brian and the EV person that is on this site?

By the way:

1. Why aren't instructor visits covered by monthly donations?

2. Why didn't I receive the tax receipt for the stationery supplies and garbage bags I bought for the Toronto, 1997 program for $118.27?

3. Why aren't the programs in Canada covered by the monthly donations?

4. Why aren't the videos covered by the monthly donations?

5. Why does it always seem that new regulations (desires) are being meted out by premies when in fact they come directly from MJ?

6. Why doesn't MJ ask for the money himself? Instead, he uses other scapegoats to raise the cash for him.

7. Why was I subject to Toronto meetings to discuss giving more cash monthly? I was already giving $125 a month plus the other expenses.

8. Why all the secrecy about MJ's reign as the Lord of the Universe?

I know you know that I'm not a liar, NI. It was through MJ's slip of the tongue that I ended up here. I don't have to shell out anymore!
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 11:33:08 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Jim or I will find the quote
Message:
Those are good questions, Gail. What exactly DO all the donations cover if not the realtively minor expenses of cult advertising? But as for your receipt, I'm sorry, that was mailed to me in error. I must have pitched it. sorry.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 10:16:24 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
Dear NI,
If M says something, dirty jokes included, what would the purpose of editing? If he thought it appropriate to say in front of a crowd what is the problem.
If things are edited why be so adimant about THAT quote not possibly being edited? Maybe because, as I said before, it should not be heard by aspirants! THINK about it PLEASE.
There is a lot of fighting stance here for sure but I am not like that and I will still not get that rational thinking from you, of course I hope you will prove me wrong.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 13:51:42 (EDT)
From: NI
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
you forgot something: I WAS THERE IN PERSON!
Gail is now pretending the quote was edited, but the thing is: HE DID NOT SAY IT
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 10:12:30 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
Dear NI,
I repeat, I have seen the editing on those dumb videos!!!!!!!
God, here's my example.In Long Beach 1997 some ecstatic premie yelled out to M 'All Night Long'To which M responded 'you have been around a while! We aren't having sex here you know' The hall erupted it was nauseating. I listened and watched for that on the videos and cassettes from that event. nada. It's not on there. He or someone decided it wasn't fit for publication. Does that mean he didn't say it? You can say whevever the fuck you want NI, I was there, I remember and that's that.


See NI, this is the perfect time to say, OK, now I see, there is editing going on. THIS IS PROF!!!! You won't see that though will you, thus the absirdity of 'talking' with you.
I know Selene personally and I believe her. I don't know you but I can see your programing in high gear. I don't say that to you to be mean or upset you. I just have a clearer over view of it from this distance. Please try to respond to this with your rationality. PLEASE!!! What a wonderful thing that would be!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 13:56:10 (EDT)
From: NI
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
Robyn
like i said in at least 3 other previous posts (that you did not bother to read)
OF COURSE, THERE IS EDITING!!!!!!
this is not the point
Gail is now pretending something has been edited because i challenged something she said.
Bye the way...GAIL IS THE ONE HOW FIRST CLAIMED THAT SHE WOULD PRODUCE A QUOTE (see post of tuesday). it was not coming, so i challenged her
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Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:48:21 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: NI
Subject: While you are waiting
Message:
NI,
I read this entire thread and saw where you said editing does go on, maybe after I posted in response to a post of yours higher up in the thread. Don't be so retched, you are supposed to be filled with love right? When I was a premie I could feel love pouring out of my eyes. If you are filled with the love of knowledge and M spread it around.
So if you think there is editing you think your mind, which you work to shut off is like a steel trap and remembers every word! Maybe that had a particular significance to Gail, who also said she was there. Are you perfect? I think you are being mean and unreasonable. Gail said she'd get the quote but didn't think about the possibility of it having been edited out. How can you possibly PROVE that it wasn't said, you can't.
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 14:47:32 (EDT)
From: NI
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Final tought
Message:
Robyn,

' you are supposed to be filled with love right? When I was a premie I could feel love pouring out of my eyes. If you are filled with the love of knowledge and M spread it around.'

I see something else pouring out of your eyes...

besides, even though i am FAR from perfect, i am not an idiot. The above described hippy philosophy is definitely not my cup of tea.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 14:48:26 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: thanks Robyn
Message:
For the vote of support.
I *think* NI answered me or someone that
OF COURSE he / they would edit out dirty jokes (I guess his sex comment in LB could be construed as a dirty joke?) but that he /they would have no reason to edit out a nagative or disparaging or discouraging (whew! all bases covered here?) comment about the internet. NI didn't seem to think editing was called for in the fact that it makes him look bad to dis one of the fastest growing and most popular communication tools of our time, as well as telling his followers - er premies - what they can and cannot do with their time re: the net.
At least that's my take on all of it.
God, be careful what you ask for, huh?
Anyway, I am backing off from all this. I got an answer, and it ws, as I said somewhere here today, more than I expected in many ways.
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Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 20:45:00 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Robyn & Everyone
Subject: Thanks for the support, folks.
Message:
Sometimes I feel like I don't have much left, but I still have my credibility. I appreciate your support.
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 10:44:09 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: You bet... my pleasure!
Message:
Gail: You have alot 'left' if you have your credibility. Remember all of the things that 'credibility' means and I'm sure you'll agree with me that 'you have EVERYTHING' that is worth having. Credibility and integrity are the basis for anything that is worthwhile, as far as I'm concerned. YOU have both aplenty!

Teddy Bear (w/Big Teeth...he he he) ;-)
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 22:23:40 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: mmmmm
To: Everyone
Subject: Tendjewberrymud ;)
Message:
Take a break and have a laugh.

Be warned, you're going to find yourself talking funny for
a while after reading this. It was nominated best email of 1997.
A telephonic exchange between a hotel guest and roomservice,
at a hotel in Asia, which was recorded and published in
the Far East Economic Review.....

Room Service: Morny. Ruin sorbees
Guest: Sorry, I thought I dialed roomservice
RS: Rye..Ruin sorbees..morny! Djewish to odor sunteen??
G: Uh..yes..I'd like some bacon and eggs
RS: Ow July den?
G: What??
RS: Ow July den?...pry,boy, pooch?
G: Oh, the eggs! How do I like them? Sorry, scrambled please.
RS: Ow July dee bayhcem...crease?
G: Crisp will be fine
RS: Hokay. An San tos?
G: What?
RS: San tos. July San tos?
G: I don't think so
RS: No? Judo one toes??
G: I feel really bad about this, but I don't know
what 'judo one toes' means.
RS: Toes! toes!...why djew Don Juan toes? Ow bow
singlish mopping we other?
G: English muffin!! I've got it! You were saying
'Toast.'
Fine. Yes, an English muffin will be fine.
RS: We bother?
G: No..just put the bother on the side.
RS: Wad?
G: I mean butter...just put it on the side.
RS: Copy?
G: Sorry?
RS: Copy...tea...mill?
G: Yes. Coffee please, and that's all.
RS: One Minnie. Ass ruin torino fee, strangle ache,
crease baychem, tossy singlish mopping we bother
honey sigh, and copy....rye??
G: Whatever you say
RS: Tendjewberrymud
G: You're welcome

----- End Included Message -----
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 23:12:05 (EDT)
From: What Bill Clinton says to
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: his new interns: I haven't
Message:
come across your face before.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 00:32:29 (EDT)
From: JW -- Off Topie
Email: None
To: What Bill Clinton says to
Subject: Election Commercials
Message:
Well, while we are off topic, have any of you California ex-premies, or even premies, seen this Dan Lungren (republican candidate for governor) commercial on TV? I listened to it and I think it needs to be reworded.

The commercial consists of this woman, who is a DA or something, standing in front of a bunch of law books talking about how Gray Davis says he is in favor of the death penalty, but she doesn't think he really is. She says (I wrote it down it sounded so weird):

'I remember 16 years ago, Gray Davis campaigning against the death penalty for Jerry Brown...'

Now, really, even if you think Jerry Brown was a crummy governor, I don't think he deserves the death penalty!!!!
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 01:59:35 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: JW -- Off Topie
Subject: Election Commercials
Message:
Yes, I, too, was against the death penalty for Jerry Brown. Was this a predecessor of Term Limits? I didn't even know this was an option and after all these years of creepy Republican Govs! Have you noticed that, in the same commercial, the person is still griping about Rose Bird? And JW, beware of those Indian Tribes who are determined to pollute our rivers and air with their Casinos! ;)
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:15:48 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Lungren the Devout
Message:
Oh yes, Rose Bird. I think most voters likely don't even remember who she was.

Lungren must really be getting desperate. I also saw a new commercial of his in which he uses his wife to explain his contradictory position on reproductive choice and the death penalty. She says Lungren opposes abortion, even in the cases of rape and incest, because he is a devout Catholic and the church opposes abortion. [Apparently he is too chicken to explain that himself.] Anyhow, she doesn't mention how her husband can be such a fervent Catholic and also such an avid supporter of the death penalty, which the Catholic Church also opposes. Hmmm. I wonder if that is going to work for him. Sounds a little hypocritical.

And where do those poor Indian tribes get $30 million to spend on ballot initiatives?
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:00:43 (EDT)
From: eb
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Election Commercials-off topic
Message:
Hi JW,
Great observation. I tend to tune out election commercials as soon as they start. I tried to read the voting materials and kept falling asleep. I'm looking for a copy of 'Propositions for Dummies' so I can vote with any kind of reasonable understanding.
eb
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:27:27 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: eb
Subject: Election Commercials-off topic
Message:
I know what you mean eb. I have been putting off reading the propositions. I tend to look at who is suppporting or opposing what to get my clues as to what is really going on. [I know Prop 10 is OPPOSED big time by the tobacco industry, so I'm sure I will vote for that one.] As a rule of thumb, any position Pete Wilson takes usually is a good sign that I should do the opposite.

My big concern is Barbara Boxer. I guess she's in a very tight race. It would be a big shame to lose her in the senate.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:03:56 (EDT)
From: Guru Mariachi
Email: None
To: eb
Subject: Election Commercials-off topic
Message:
Mi amore,
I will mark your sample ballot for you and you won't have to worry about anything! Never leave room for change in your pockets...Your Guru Mariachi
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 10:55:21 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Guru Mariachi
Subject: Election Commercials-off topic
Message:
GM: You have got a 'scary' thought going here. I know that there aren't THAT many premies, but consider the possibility of M 'telling' premies who they should vote for. In a controlled cult environment, that would be a very real possibility. Kinda scary, eh?
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Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:59:41 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Guru Mariachi
Subject: OK, OK... Oh my Guru
Message:
Oh my Guru Mariachi: You are the infinite pecuniary ocean. Kindly lead me thru your lila of 'left-only' and 'right-only.' Show me please when to 'yield' and when the road to a vote is 'one-way' (your way). Only then will I be satisfied with 'my' choice. Pranam, my Guru Mariachi.......
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Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 16:44:11 (EDT)
From: Guru Mariachi
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: OK, OK... Oh my Guru
Message:
I sense some insincerity on your part, horned-beetle; perhaps you have not been watching enough Teletubbies, but I think it is because those twenties have yet to arrive. Now, send me your sample ballot wrapped in fifty twenty dollar bills (the old twenties, not those funny looking new ones) and by my grace, not only will 'you' 'make' the 'correct' 'choice' but you will find that your meditation takes you even deeper into Teletubbyland and the mysteries of Hillhome.
Your Guru Mariachi
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 02:04:42 (EDT)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: RT
Subject: Tendjewberrymud ;)
Message:
Very, very funny that was, RT. I'm going to copy it and fax it to a friend or two. It should brighten their day. Thanks!
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:21:04 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: mmm
To: Sir David
Subject: Oh yeah?
Message:
R UR FRENDS A-SHEN OR PHONETIC?...

An Asian man walked into the currency exchange in New York with
2000 yen and walked out with $72.

The following week, he walked in with 2000 yen, and was handed $66. He asked the teller why he got less money than he had gotten during the previous week. The lady says 'Fluctuations.'

The Asian man stormed out, and just before slamming the door,
he turned around and said 'Fluc you Amelicans too!'

;)
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:06:42 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: Oh yeah?
Message:
An Asian woman when to the optometrist because she was having trouble seeing and after an eye nexamination, the doctor said.

'You have a cataract.'

The woman replied: 'Oh no, I have Leencon Conetonentul.'
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:09:00 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: JW and RT
Subject: Oh yeah?
Message:
Now boys, I'm gonna pull an op here and explain that these are naughty jokes. Japanese and Chinese speakers don't have an 'el' sound in their languages and make a rolling 'arr' sound. It is naughty to make fun of them. Now, hang your heads in shame...
Miekie da Farasie
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:11:16 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: JW and RT
Subject: Yeah!
Message:
Q: How many people belonging to a certain ethnic or social group does it take to perform a particular menial activity?

A: A finite positive integer. One to perform the activity, and the rest to behave in a manner stereotypical of their ethnic or social group!
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 22:32:36 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: Chinese Dictionary
Message:
Chinese Dictionary - Must Be Said Out Loud

------------------------------

Dung On Mai Shu ---- I stepped in excrement

Ai Wan Tu Bang Yu -- Let's sleep together

Ai Bang Mai Ne ----- I bumped into the coffee table

Ar U Wun Tu -------- A gay liberation greeting

Chin Tu Fat -------- You need a face lift

Chow Mai Dong ------ Romantic proposition

Dum Gai ------------ A stupid person

Wel Hung Gai ------- Is that a banana in your pocket?

Gun Pao Der -------- An ancient Chinese invention

Hu Flung Dung ------ Which one of you fertilized the field?

Hu Yu Hai Ding ----- We have reason to believe you are hiding a fugitive

Jan Ne Ka Sun ------ A former late night talk show host

Kum Hia ------------ Approach me

Lao Ze Sho --------- Gilligan's Island

Lao Zi ------------- Not very good

Lin Ching ---------- An illegal execution

Moon Lan Ding ------ A great achievement of the American space program

Ne Ahn ------------- A lighting fixture used in advertising signs

Shai Gai ----------- A bashful person

Tai Ne Bae Be ------ A premature infant

Tai Ne Po Ne ------- A small horse

Ten Ding Ba -------- Serving drinks to people

Wan Bum Lung ------- A person with T.B.

Yu Mai Te Tan ------ Your vacation in Hawaii agrees with you

Wa Shing Kah ------- Cleaning an automobile

Wai So Dim --------- Are you trying to save electricity?

Wai U Shao Ting ---- There is no reason to raise your voice
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Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:55:24 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Bobby
Subject: Chinese Dictionary (off-topic)
Message:
Bobby: Now you've just gone too far....NOT! he he he.

- BTW, I just remembered that I promised you something that I haven't delivered. Sorry, my brain is getting mushy with age. If you will give me your email address (again), I will carry the discussion on there. Thanks!
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Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 13:30:22 (EDT)
From: Bobby
Email: bobby2@mindspring.com
To: Mike
Subject: Swahili Dictionary (off-topic)
Message:
NOT!

I'll look for your email Mike. May take awhile to respond, depending on when you email. I'll be out of town for several days.

Jesus Saves.
All others pay cash.

Leave no turn unstoned. - pranksters
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 20:40:44 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Requirements for Knowledge
Message:
I was just looking at Maharaji's 'Instructors Manual' that's on this website and I thought the section on 'The True Qualifications for an Aspirant', which is the section that says what an aspirant has to believe BEFORE being allowed to receive knowledge, was very interesting. It completely defies all the 'try it you'll like it' bullshit being espoused by premies here and over at enjoyinglife.

It's still clear that no one gets knowledge unless they believe, and say, that they are devoting themselves to Maharaji and that they consider Maharaji 'above all' in their lives. So much for freely giving knowledge and letting it evolve, which is the bullshit he says to people in introductory videos. The megalomaniac guru still requires that HE is the centerpiece in it all, even if we ever doubted that.

Half of the 'qualifications' relate to how the aspirant sees Maharaji, and they get progressively intense, more demanding and cult-like, as they progress.

An instructor isn't supposed to select someone for knowledge unless he or she is sure the aspirant will:

1. Have the necessary reverence and understanding about the teacher; [Maharaji must be 'revered.']

2. Have the commitment toward the teacher; [You must be COMMITTED to Maharaji, not just to the practice or the experience.]

3. Have the openess to evolve with the directions of the teacher;
[You have to be able shut off your thinking process to live with the contradictions and whims of Maharaji. This comes in handy for Maharaji in disavowing his past, and is equivalent to his 'don't doubt' commandment from earlier years.]

4. Be concerned about his or her relationship to the teacher; [Huh? What is this concern business? Is this the preoccupation with Maharaji that premies have and that he thrives on? What the hell does this mean other than that, but wait, the final qualification makes all of that clear]

5. PLACE THE TEACHER, AND HIS GUIDANCE IN THE KNOWLEDGE PROCESS, ABOVE ALL.

Well, that about says it. It's not his GUIDANCE that is alone paramount, or even the experience, which isn't even mentioned, but HIM that is paramount. It is ABOVE ALL -- above yourself, your experience, your life, etc. This is undoubtedly helpful in keeping one's financial priorities in place as well, all to the benefit of the guru's luxurious lifestyle.

It might be a little more slick than requiring that prayer [Oh, my Guru Maharaj Ji, I dedicate my life to you, etc.], that was required in my knowledge session, but no one is going to get knowledge unless they come to the same point. So much for the new and improved Maharaji.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 20:49:48 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Requirements for Knowledge
Message:
Thanks for highlighting this for us, Joe.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 22:44:40 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Requirements for Torture
Message:
Hey J.W.
The mysterious process of readiness explained! OY VEY! This trip seems weirder and weirder the more I learn all the secrets!

That manual is missing a couple of readiness techniques, though:
6. Bludgeon the aspirant over the head with how they are too intellectual and complicated over & over again until they are a little worm on the bottom of the shoe of Guru Maharaji.

7. Make the aspirant crawl through broken glass and listen to psychotic initiators talk for 4 days straight until, in a moment of complete exasperation the aspirant yells out: 'OK already, I surrender, I'll do anything, I'll lick the Guru's toilets, just please give me the fucking knowledge!'

SOme of my friends received knowledge so easily, it was like a piece of cake. I think it took me two years. It was a horriible nightmare being an aspirant. Did anyone else have that experience?
Helen
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 23:43:06 (EDT)
From: beyond the grave
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Requirements for Torture
Message:
Two girls in Conn went through that 78-79
aspirant process and both went immediately into the
ashram. You had to be asking to move into the ashram to get knowledge then.
And both moved out and commited suicide.
One in hartford and one in new haven ashrams.
debbie katz in hartford
RT knows the girl in new haven's name probably, I forget.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 01:12:15 (EDT)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: beyond the grave
Subject: Requirements for Torture
Message:
Were these two girls friends? That's a heavy one. Perhaps Brian could include a web page in memory of all the people who commited suicide. Their names and some of what happened to them. What the heck. I could do it and link Brian could link it to the site. By the way, the other Sir, Sir Rated is not me.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 09:11:07 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: In Memoriam
Message:
Perhaps Brian could include a web page in memory of all the people who commited suicide. Their names and some of what happened to them. What the heck. I could do it and link Brian could link it to the site.

Hi David!

I'm glad you're bringing this up.
My original idea was to have that kind of stuff on my site too.
When I thought of having something like the 'EV/DLM Papers', my intention was to have various issues investigated, brought up and well documented.
One was of course m's lineage and origins, and the past DLM,
others were
- financial exploitation through DLM & EV, and the origins of m's wealth
- dramas: suicides, mutilations, sexual abuses etc

I didn't get involved in those other issues yet, because working on those Indian materials was already a lot, and I'm not completely over with it.
And if you or anybody else want to work on this, that could be
easily linked to the EV/DLM Papers, even though these new pages would not have to be physically be on 'my' site, they could be on yours, or anybody's.
I know Brian is already very busy with ex-premie.org, and regularily updating pages, adding new entries to the site map, etc is very demanding.
That's why I'm offering to link this to my site.

What do you think about it?
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:43:28 (EDT)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: In Memoriam
Message:
Yes Jean-Michel, I know how demanding and time consuming it can be setting up web pages! My idea is this; people email me with their text about someone who has died because of involvement in the Maharaji madness. It could be people you know or just know about.

The main thing is that people email me all they want to write in memory of the deceased person. Their name, where they were located, what sort of person they were, if they knew them and of course, their untimely end.

I will put all of these entries onto a web site and have an index page and links to each person's tribute. This would be easy for me to set up and maintain. I am limited by time myself. The site will then be linked to your site Jean-Michel. Therefore it could be accessed from your site and perhaps from the ex-premie.org too.

So people; if you want to write a tribute to a gone but not forgotten premie, please email it to me and I'll have it up and together on the web in no time at all. Thanks and of course, I will write a sensitive and sypathetic intoduction to the page.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:56:08 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: In Memoriam
Message:
I think it is a lovely idea. Perhaps their loved ones will be a bit comforted by it as well.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 09:09:36 (EDT)
From: Mel Bourne
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: In Memoriam
Message:
Perhaps their loved ones will be a bit comforted by it as well.

Maybe you should actually ask the loved ones' permission first!
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 11:39:56 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Poor Mel
Message:
Maybe you should actually ask the loved ones' permission first!

Mel,

You have to admit it's kind of funny. You keep showing up with nothing but mature, heartfelt (I'll never say 'sincere' again) concern for people and issues and look at the treatment you get! Like I just know some of these idiots here are going to give you hard time for this measly little suggestion. Don't let it bother you, Mel. Some of us just aren't big enough to see the full picture. Hang in there, bud.

Like I can't tell you how moving I found your own psychoanalysis of me. I've since begun therapy with not one, but two different counsellors and am even thinking of going back to school and getting off drugs. Well, one thing at a time, huh? I can say, though, that I stopped hitting my girlfriend that very night. Mel, we both thank you for that (as do the Oak Bay police!).

So keep up the good work, thaks for the suggestions and, you know, looking back on some of those disputes we had over the quotes we so rashly keep trying to pin on Maharaji, hey, maybe you're right after all. Who knows, eh?

Take care,

Jim
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 12:19:19 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: In Memoriam
Message:
Maybe you should actually ask the loved ones' permission first!

Mel,

Why not just come out and say what you really mean? Now this is just a guess on my part, but you probably hate the idea of an In Memoriam section because it would reflect so poorly on your guru. Now isn't this more like it?

Instead, you have to dissemble by feigning concern for the relatives of the premies who were driven to suicide over their involvement in your buddy's cult. Alas, this has been your MO since the first time you posted here. Honesty and straight forwardness aren't exactly BM cult attributes, are they.

Oh yeah, here's your ''fuck you.''
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Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 03:30:11 (EDT)
From: jethro
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: In Memoriam
Message:
'Why not just come out and say what you really mean? '

He's just not able to. The premie mind has it's own special editor which stops them saying what they really think.......actually, unless what they really think has been okayed by prempal, it must be wrong and they are not surrenedered enough...and...oh Lord help me purify myself.

It is clear that they can't say what they mean because they are in a clamp........these people are really boring.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 19:54:08 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: In Memoriam
Message:
Mel,
Is there any point in me answering your brief post? Are you out there with an open mind and heart or am I wasting my time? Well, here goes anyway.

Yes, I think asking their permission would be a respectful thing to do, Mel.

What I was alluding to is the fact that there is no human pain quite equal to that of losing a child. It is completely outside the natural order of things. We are supposed to die first, our children are supposed to outlive us.
I have heard people describe the pain of losing a child as being disemboweled without anesthesia (sp).
So when a child dies senselessly, tragically,there is very little comfort to be found. So what many people do is start a foundation in their child's name, or otherwise work to prevent others from dying in the same way. This at least gives some meaning to the tragedy.
For some parents, the In Memorian page might be comforting because it might help others not to get involved in a cult, or help others to get support who are involved in a cult, so that they do not have to resort to suicide to assuage their pain.
No doubt that many of the parents whose children committed suicide because of Maharaji, have already found this kind of support. All I was saying is that it could be a comfort to them.

I have known many parents whose children have died tragically and each one of them was grateful to hear fm others who knew their son or daughter, and to have their son or daughter commemorated in some way. It is a way for a child to live on in people's memories.

Mel, why do you sound so cynical? What has got your goat?
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Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 03:36:40 (EDT)
From: jethro
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: In Memoriam
Message:
'Mel, why do you sound so cynical? What has got your goat? '

My guess is that he has a conflict between the 'love' he feels for or thinks he is getting from M, and his human objectivity seeing what a con M is.

When he has the courage to admit to himself that the love he feels is his own and not due to to any triangle, he will know freedom and be able to communicate.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:39:38 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: beyond the grave
Subject: Requirements two Torture
Message:
Another fucking two suicides, is there ANYONE here who doesn't know any suicides around slimeball?

How many more?
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:45:46 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Requirements two Torture
Message:
ham: Actually, I think I can say that I have not (THANK WHATEVER!) Although, I may be wrong since I met so many premies during my time and I traveled alot. I sure hope no one that I knew did that over the LARD! It IS certainly depressing to hear about all of these folks that have, though! Of course, no premies will notice/care because they are too wrapped up in 'themselves' to give a damn about anyone else.

- Man, I really am 'feeling' mean today!
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:46:21 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Requirements two Torture
Message:
I personally also know of two additional suicides of premies, of people I actually knew, as well as others I didn't know personally.

I think I mentioned this before, but in about 1980, EV came up with this slick brochure for propogation purposes that had details on several attractive, successful premies, who talked about, in more relatable terms, how knowledge had helped them in their lives. Maharaji was really into it and approved it personally. However, by the time the brochure was completed and printed, one of the featured 'happy and successful' premies had committed suicide. Ironic, huh? Sad, and also embarrassing. The brochure was quietly discarded.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 00:13:22 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Requirements for Torture
Message:
Yes, I remember in the late 70s people waited for years to receive knowledge and no one was ever ready. These people came to satsang every, single night, seven days a week, constantly professing their sincerity and devotion, singing arti, doing pranam, going to programs, and yet not really being a part of the group. I used to feel sorry for them, but a lot of the initiators and the premies were pretty abusive, patronizing and condescending to people like that.

Then, when they finally got into some kind of a knowledge selection, there were those marathons of satsang with the initiator, with heavy, heavy satsang. They were like concentration camps, or maybe torture chambers. Peoples' brains were mush by the time they actually received knowledge.

One thing is really clear. Both then and now, the REAL strong, programming, brainwashing, indoctrination, goes on in the ASPIRANT process, not in what happens afterwards. It's so clear from that initiator handbook that Maharaji is interested in people who are really, really programmed before they receive knowledge. This is, of course, because the knowledge is such a disappointing letdown that the person better have his or her discriminating evaluatory processes disconnected. And they had better already be worshipping the lotus feet.

Despite all that, the vast majority of people split anyway, at least eventually. It's truly amazing.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 17:03:45 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: JW & Grave
Subject: So True
Message:
Your analysis here is so true about the insidious brainwashing. I didn't meant to make light of the aspirant process especially since hearing about those two women committing suicide.
I just don't know what to say.

So I will just let this sink in a bit more--that beautiful young lives were brought to an end by their own hand because of this EVIL person.

Helen
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 00:45:37 (EDT)
From: Sir Ated
Email: None
To: web site commandos
Subject: edge-u-cation
Message:
Culprit,you've missed
your human birth.
Many owners share this body.
Parents say, 'our son!'
and raise him for their profit.
Women says,'My dear!
and devours him like a tigress.
Fond wives and loving sons sit,
their mouths gaping like death.
Crows and vultures think
about death,dogs and hogs
eye the road.
Fire says,I'll burn the body.
Water says,I'll quench the flames.
Earth says,I'll mingle with it.
Air says,I'll blow it away.
You think that's your home,fool?
It's the enemy at your throat.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 01:33:11 (EDT)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Sir Ated
Subject: edge-u-cation
Message:
I couldn't disagree more with your poem, Sir Ated. Who knighted you, by the way. I was knighted by an ex-premie on this forum, Dr Mike Somebodyorother. What prompted you to write your poem? It seems you hate the world. The trouble is, if you hate the world, it can apprear to hate you. It's a bit like the vibes you give out being reflected back to you.

If ever I am feeling sorry for myself and thinking that life can be pretty hard, I remember that truly great man, Stephen Hawking, who can only move his thumb and yet is an inspiration to many people. You know, he still has a beaming smile for people who he sees and has a wicked sense of humour.

Yes, the world and life can give some pretty heavy blows to people but dealing with the adversity and learning to value this planet and the people in it, is for me, a far far better thing to do. As for those women coming to devour me, I'm here girls!
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:43:25 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: edge-u-cation
Message:
Go, Sir David! Nothin' wrong with the love of a good woman, eh? We're not all a bunch of Eves holding out the apple of temptation ready to bring a man to Satan. I get so sick of this primitive fundamentalist spew that seems to have been absorbed by the Guru.
(:
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 10:50:21 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Sir Ated
Subject: edge-u-cation
Message:
And I thought I was having a nice time!
Loving wife, wonderful parents (now Pop's on Prozac)
Nice home in a great place
Plenty to eat, a warm bed in which to sleep
Good friends, good work, good times!

So where are the vultures, hogs, dogs and demons?
Only in the minds of those who ''Know''
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:39:14 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Sir Ated
Subject: edge-u-cation
Message:
What are you talking about? You obviously never have experienced love & warmth fm another human being. WIves, sons, etc. are not a bunch of vultures swooping around. Where is your humanity?
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:04:34 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Requirements for Knowledge
Message:
Great post, JW. What premie didn't initially become interested in Knowledge because they wanted the 'experience' promised by it, only to learn that it was the 'teacher', not the Knowledge, not the 'experience', that mattered? What baffles me is, if it's really all about serving M, why doesn't he just say so? Why does he hide behind Knowledge, luring you in with it? Could it be because he knows that people would just laugh at him if he were to claim that devotion to him is their salvation? I would have. I would have had no interest in him, at all.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:39:30 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Requirements for Knowledge
Message:
What baffles me is, if it's really all about serving M, why doesn't he just say so? Why does he hide behind Knowledge, luring you in with it?

I think it's because if he told people at the beginning that this was about a path of devotion and serving him , and that HE is the center of it all and that you have to place him 'above all' in order to even get knowledge, interested people would run for the hills. Most thinking, non-programmed people are, on balance, not interested in getting involved with something that is about worshipping another human being and supporting his obscene material excesses. They just aren't into it.

So, people have to be, like you say, lured into thinking he is just about 'an experience,' about 'enjoying life,' about having an internal experience and that absolutely nothing else is required. That's the lie he tells people at the beginning, and it is very deceptive, because people aren't told at the beginning what it really is about, until they are 'hooked' into wanting to experience this thing and to become part of the group. Only then are all the requirements for being devoted to Maharaji and being concerned about one's relationship with him revealed.

As an example of this, do you think anyone is told about DARSHAN at an introductory program? Of course not, because that would be an indication to people as to how Maharaji REALLY fits into the whole scheme of things, how he sees himself as some kind of divine being, and how he expects to be worshipped by his followers. So that is carefully hidden from people.

Maharaji himself obviously wrote that instructors manual. Much of it is written in the first person, so you can tell that's true. I'm grateful to whoever got that and put it on the website, because it's one of the best pieces of proof around about what Big M really sees his trip to be, despite the lies he and the premies engage in to the public and to new people.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:55:41 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Requirements for Knowledge
Message:
JW: Speaking of editing videos. I remember that WIGM is the only video that showed darshan. Jee whiz, why don't they have it in every video that is produced by EV? Could it be that they are 'embarrased' by the gushing display of emotion? Or could it be that they think the kissing of the lotus toes will turn people off? Why so secretive? What are they hiding? Rhetorical questions, of course.... cuz, Jee, we all know how 'open and honest' premies are!
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:50:38 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Requirements for Knowledge
Message:
I agree. I'm grateful for that too because it is hard cold evidence.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 16:46:22 (EDT)
From: LIZA
Email: liza@wanadoo.fr
To: Everyone
Subject: Anger
Message:
Well, excepting my very bad english, I just want to say that I received knowledge in 1977, and I stil don't know if I am an ex-premie or a current premie...
I did not see MJ since many years, my life took me away from all this, but I cannot understand why so many people are keeping anger to him or to this experience.
I don't want to know if he is the Lord or the Pope or what else...
that does not mean anything for me.
At a certain time of my life, I met very strong experiences of love - or call it what you want - and I received Knowledge.
Then I turned away, that's all.
I am afraid that many of those who are angry are people who were very concerned in the DLM or Elan Vital, who had big or small responsabilities, and were disappointed...
I do not meditate since many years, but I want to be respectfull for what I lived some years ago...
That's all. No need to be agressive to me or anything else, I do not feel concerned, I juste wanted to say that.
Do what you want, if you do not want to live it, then leave it, for me it was free, I did not invest money or anything else...
Thank you for reading.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 19:34:24 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: LIZA
Subject: Anger
Message:
Then I turned away, that's all.

How do you plan on repenting for this?
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 20:17:02 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Anger? What anger?
Message:
No, Je jeste simplement, Liza, jai beaucoup d'anger (jai oublie preque toute mon francais. Mai, s'il vous plait, tu peut parler en francise avec Jean-Michel).

Liza, your English is fine. You sound intelligent enough to get the picture. I think you're right. People who no longer accept Maharaji at face value but instead he's much less than what we'd been lead to believe DO feel anger in some proportion to how involved we were. For example, it seems that people who never even tried to give 100 per cent (i.e. by moving into the ashram) find it easier to forget the ashrams ever existed. Premies who never gave up sex for Maharaji find it easier to forgive him for ever pressuring others to do just that.

What I care about most is simply getting to the truth of the matter. If Maharaji is NOT divine but, rather, is just a regular person like me or you I would never have sacrificed as I did for him. Yeah, that makes me angry. Not in any way that burdens my life but angry all the same. Can you understand that? Wouldn't you feel the same if you HAD moved into the ashram or served him for years only to later learn it was just some superstitious Hindu trip?
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:42:21 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Ignorance isn't bliss!
Message:
To Premies:

Ignorance isn’t “bliss.” Bliss, as such, isn’t based upon how ignorant you are, either. Many premies, without picking on particular personalities, seem to believe that science is bad, bad, bad. Why? Because thinking is bad? Because “picking something apart” to learn how it works is bad? That somehow by removing the ignorance-factor, the mystique will be gone, too? Wrong, wrong, wrong. Personally, I find the thought of aimlessly wandering around with a 'blissful” smile on my face and a mind full of ignorance pretty repugnant (and boring, to say the least).

I know that I’ve said this before, but knowing how something works deepens my true appreciation for that thing. Life, as an entity, seems pretty thin and unimportant without the knowledge of its incredible complexity. It seems inexhaustible without the understanding of its fragility. We are prone to abuse the “thing” UNTIL we understand how important it is to stop abusing it.

The concept of flat-lining our minds becomes even more repulsive when we realize this simple fact: Ignorance breeds abuse, not bliss. Yes, there are those who have abused the knowledge hard-won by dedicated individuals. But, would we have medical science, as it exists today, without many other technologies having come into play first? Yeah, plastics have caused us a lot of problems, due to our IGNORANCE of their proper use and disposal, but without them artificial knee joints would be impossible to make (now, anyway). How, for that matter, would we know how a “knee” works if we didn’t research it and THINK about it enough to try to “reproduce” one ourselves, when it is needed. Without the research of a lot of THINKING physicians (past and present) there would be MANY more dead children than there already are.

You tell me, did Dr. Jonas Salk experience “bliss” when he discovered the polio vaccine or did he sit around “in his mind” and experience abject misery? I think the answer is obvious! Do you think that Steve Hawking was “miserable” when he put together the pieces of the “big-bang” puzzle or was he experiencing his “blissful glory?” Remember when Shoemaker-Levy 9 hit Jupiter and the TV pictures of the astronomers that were lucky enough to observe the event? Did they look “unhappy” or were they blissful to the point of leaving their “physical form” behind? KNOWLEDGE IS BLISS, folks! Real knowledge; the kind that comes from effective thinking, not the kind that comes from watching air go in and out of a pair of lungs. I don’t know…. Maybe premies would be good respiratory therapists: They’ve spent enough time determining how air goes in and goes out!

Flat-line, mindless, ignorance is NOT bliss. Concentrating on your breath to the point where that is all you “know” is NOT bliss. Everything alive breathes… So what? If you don’t understand what that “breath” is actually doing inside the body that is breathing it, you can’t possibly appreciate it to its fullest.

So much for equating ignorance with bliss and vice versa (IMHO)
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:17:45 (EDT)
From: steven
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: hurt followers
Message:
To all hurt followers,
You were never premies to begin with.
Forget about this person.
When the real truth stands the darkness will run like the jackel it is.
This person is the dead snake on the path being eaten by the ants that wonse listened to him.Listen to your compassionate side.Not this self proclaimed guru of lies
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:28:15 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: steven
Subject: My, my, my
Message:
Steve: I don't have any idea what brought that out of you, but obviously I touched a nerve. That was an, almost, poetic response. So... now I'm being equated with Lucifer and YOU 'don't even know me.' Hmmmm.... where have I heard that before!

- Tell me, Steve, what 'great things' have premies accomplished lately? What have they done for the people/living things of this world? Have they started any humanitarian organizations that I don't know about? When you meditate, does M 'reveal' the workings of everything to you? Does he show you how things 'really' are? If so, I've got a few questions to ask concerning a project that I'm involved with and I could use some help.

- BTW, you will note that I answered your questions in the posts below and haven't, yet, heard your comments. One other thing that I forgot to mention: I'm enjoyingthehell out of my life, right now!
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:33:39 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: My, my, my
Message:
Glad you are having fun Mike.
I'm getting bored - it's a little too much like the TV evangalists for me. Guess I am not quite receptive to the 'love' that surely must be coming form stevies posts. After all he is a premie. means lover don't it? i was jist a follower so's I's not fer shure.

The garter belt stuff was fun though.
I think I will be a materialist hedonist and go shopping.
Remember El Con?
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:36:54 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: My, my, my
Message:
Yeah, Stevie poo is really struggling for our attention now. I think I'll go paint the garage...
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:42:40 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: My, my, my
Message:
Selene: Jeez, I wasn't expecting... no, that's not true, I was expecting a pretty strong response, but 'Guru of Lies' is more than I could have hoped for. Now I'm a guru of something. I 'feel' my head swelling at this very moment.... Where's the needle so I can let off the pressure!!! he he he.

- Actually, that was going to be my last post on the issue for awhile. It 'just came to me' so I wrote it down and submitted it. Well, I guess it got a less-than-glowing review, eh? Back to the drawing board.... he he he.

- Hey... wait a minute... hows come I never got a shot at the garter? Now, don't tell my wife that I said that.... he he he.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:47:29 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: I like your posts
Message:
I just like shopping too!

At least with a title of Guru of Lies the 'followers' would know where they stood. Pranam dude.

The garter is all mine for now. I am being selfish, as we ex's are prone to supposedly be.

And it's not as easy to share as the lipstick tapes.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 16:09:19 (EDT)
From: eb to Mike
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: Hey, get in line!
Message:
I have dibs on the garter after Robyn (if there's anything left of it). But I'll gladly send it on to you once I'm finished.

But seriously, Mike, I liked your post. You sound like an engineer, no offense.

With love,
eb
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 16:15:02 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: eb
Subject: Engineer????
Message:
eb: Ok, I'll wait my turn.... Man, what a guy's got to go thru these days... he he he.

- Why would I be offended by the title, 'engineer?' No offense taken. Actually, I am a network analyst/administrator, but my real love is my major: astrophysics. There aren't alot of jobs in that field, so I had to go with my minor: computer science. But hey, who's complaining? It puts food on the table and clothes on the kid.

- I'm revelling in my new title, 'Guru of Lies.' Nice fit, don't you think?
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 17:25:17 (EDT)
From: eb
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Guru of Lies
Message:
Dear Mike,
Yeah, it's kind of catchy. So now we have Mickey: Guru Mariachi and Mike: Guru of Lies. I remember a joke back when I was a premie, er, I mean follower. We used to call anyone expressing negativity a 'Rugu' thinking that it meant, 'Dispeller of Light; Revealer of Darkness.' So maybe your title makes you the Dispeller of Darkness, revealer of the Light through revealing the Lies. Oh I get so confused whenever I try to use rational thought. I must go back to flatline mindlessness so that I can really enjoy my life.
Barely Running
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:53:02 (EDT)
From: Steven
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: not your world
Message:
Mike I can not say anything to you.Because We definitly do not speak the same language.
In africa there are thousands of practicing people who have turned their backs on war.In every country around the world Maharaji has thousands of practicing people.That are helping each other.And not trying to kill each other for the purpose of ethnic whatever.Thousandsssssssssss. Who just want to live nicely and play on this giant playground called earth.Yes they have families and do lots of things just like you and I.Every country that Maharaji can enter he does.And their are people there who are just as smart as you.
So if he is helping people FEEEEL their common bond so they do not need to slice each others throat over the better religion then thats the beginning of peace to me.And thousandsssssss more!Wow its working Ha Ha.You can't stop it.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 16:09:59 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Steven
Subject: Yes, it is!
Message:
Steve: Would that what you were saying about M's effect on peace were true! If M was actually having that effect, I would be the last to stand in the way. If you recall, I WAS a premie and 'peace on earth' was my PRIMARY concern... PRIMARY!

- What do you think is going to happen in hose powder-kegs of instability, when they find out that M is a fraud. DO you think they are going to continue 'feeling' their oneness with each other? When you base a 'fix' on a lie, the fix will certainly crumble. On that, you can count!

- I don't know why you keep 'picking at' my supposed intelligence level. Partner, I KNOW there are alot of people that are much more intelligent than I am. Most of the folks on this forum are much more perceptive and intelligent than I (IMHO). The difference between a premie and an ex, in that regard, is that the ex's enjoy using their intelligence for something rather than wasting it.

- Feelings are just that: FEELINGS. They will not correct the ills of this world. Proper and clear-headed thinking, with a good dose of compassion, is what will fix it. I've seen more real compassion on this forum than I did during my ENTIRE stay in premiedom! Whatever compassion M has, has not been used to feed the world. People that are starving to death will never hear his message. If he were anything other than a charlatan, he would KNOW THAT! I KNOW IT, why doesn't he, if he's so damned smart? Where is his compassion, eh? Show me one example of REAL compassion on his part that doesn't involve one of his precious minions. Times up.... there aren't any!

- BTW, most of the problems in africa have nothing to do with religion. They have to do with tribal membership and ethnicity. So, building a new religion there will not help. People slobbering over M's feet will not help, either. Any more suggestions?
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 17:02:12 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Steven
Subject: not your world
Message:
Hey, Steven, did you ever hear that song by Pink Floyd, 'Comfortably Numb', you know, the one that goes, 'Hello... Is there anybody in there?' Your last post made me think of it.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 17:23:19 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Steven
Subject: Slit people's throats?
Message:
Do you think you got K so that you wouldn't feel like slitting people's throats? Most people don't feel like that and they don't have K either. You would be ready to fight those who would oppose your 'MASTER' wouldn't you. Why do you think your zeal for K and M is any different than a ferverent Christian, Jew, Moslem, Hindu, Buddist, or a member of a different new-age cult?

I must say that my frustration level has gone down considerably since leaving the cult this past June. I no longer have to pay attention to my unsolvable problem--namely K and MJ.

What has M and K brought you? Are you a kinder, gentler person? Judging from your posts, you have a lot of anger. Has this trip honestly worked? Why not drop this ball and chain. You will feel a lot happier.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 20:29:47 (EDT)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Steven
Subject: not your world
Message:
Steven; what you have said is just not true. Maharaji is not stopping people from killing each other. There are atrocities happening each week which I see reported on the news and I have never heard a single mention of Maharaji as a peacemaker in any of these hotspots.

NATO is considering air strikes against the Serbs in Europe. Now Maharaji did used to be quite active in Europe and the ethnic divisions have not been healed by him or his knowledge. What you have said is mere fantasy. Perhaps you saw it on a video or read it in a magazine. Yes, I think you must have read it in an Elan Vital publication. It's the sort of thing they write.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:42:53 (EDT)
From: John Hammond-Smyth
Email: None
To: steven
Subject: hurt followers
Message:
Right on brother. This Mike must surely be the most foul abomination to ever walk upon this earth! I say to him, 'Get thee behind me Satan!' I will not be tempted by your trickery. Thanks and praise be to the truth!
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 11:17:19 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: did he or didn't he?
Message:
Did M tell premies not to participate in this forum, or something like that? Maybe something to the effect that the web was a waste of time? It was a recent thread here and I have been away so I am confused as to what he said or more than likely, what he *implied*. I do remember his pearl of wisdom about 'just because you have an information highway doesn't mean you know where to go on it' but I thought there was some kind of vague almost but not to be pinned down directive.

Anyone?

Not that I want to chase anyone away, as I said, the entertainment value is, well, entertaining.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 11:30:23 (EDT)
From: Steven
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: did he or didn't he?
Message:
Dear,You should be concerned with> your directive< or something?I hope I am not being to harsh on you.
Maharaji never gave that directive.
It was those same people that told him he should not give that prostitute the gift!
His response to them was I will give the knowledge to any one I please.
You do not have to sleep with her.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 12:40:40 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Steven
Subject: did he or didn't he?
Message:
huh?
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:14:33 (EDT)
From: eb
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: did he or didn't he?
Message:
Hi Selene,
Sounds like Steven thinks you're a lesbian.
Maybe he hasn't read up on your flaming heterosexuality in the archives.
Does Robyn still have dibs on your garter belt?
;)
eb
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:28:27 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: eb
Subject: did he or didn't he?
Message:
Yeah, I was going to ask him why he thought I was a lesbian. And why he thought I wanted to sleep with a prostitute.
Maybe he did read up on my kinkier days :) in the archives. Didn't really talk about much though.
The only thing I can decipher from that post is that he is maybe comparing the bigM to JC and JC letting Mary M. wash his feet?

And if so, is that not saying they dispersed the same knowledge?
And therefore, there is some aspect of divinity to the meditation teacher?

You see, my vacation has left me inept at translating premie speak.

Robyn can have the garter belt when I am through with it. ooooohhh!! just think!!
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:24:02 (EDT)
From: steven
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: did he or didn't he?
Message:
I don't care who you are.Or what you do.
A follower is totaly different then a premie.
This site should be re-named to the
poor hurt ex-followers org.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:54:59 (EDT)
From: eb
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: did he or didn't he?
Message:
Well, maybe I can get what's left of it after Robyn's through. I don't think she's into prostitutes either.

But let me get this straight:
JC (the son of god, walked on water, died for our sins)
indiscriminately gave the same knowledge to MM as
BM gave to eb?

Call me a bitch, but I don't think so.

Running Bare
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 19:54:48 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: eb
Subject: did he or didn't he?
Message:
Well eb
That's the best sense I could make of that post. Who knows what he meant? and, to echo his sentiments toward me, who cares?
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 03:32:02 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: eb
Subject: did he or didn't he?
Message:
Dear Eb,
Seems this black leather item is in high demand, maybe we can get a bid going.
Start the bidding at $100. (Pretty good eh Selene!)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 11:45:53 (EDT)
From: eb
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: did he or didn't he?
Message:
Dear Robyn,
For $100, I hope that includes the red heels. Should go nicely with my black fishnets (except that my goth child wore them and now they have holes).
Love ya,
eb
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:54:54 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: eb
Subject: did he or didn't he?
Message:
'Should go nicely with my black fishnets (except that
my goth child wore them and now they have holes).'

I thought that fishnets were nothing but holes sewn together anyway!;)
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 22:03:43 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: did he or didn't he?
Message:
Dear Mickey,
Funny, that hadn't crossed my mind! :) Kind of breaks the semetry(sp) though, ya know!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 03:28:47 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: eb
Subject: did he or didn't he?
Message:
Dear Eb,
I think it was a black leather girdle, if I remember correctly! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:02:39 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Robyn and eb
Subject: did he or didn't he?
Message:
Now now children. What do black leather erotic undies have to do with the great guru M? well..... you may be onto something there at second thought.

It is a girdle, but not just any grrrrdle. It has lots of hooks and zippers and tab thingies to attach other devices.

I know this has nothing to do with bigM maybe, or maybe not, but I just had to get the record 'straight(?)' here.

This time of year does this to me. Wishing a Festive and powerful
Samhain to all you pagans out there.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:20:31 (EDT)
From: eb
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Black Leather Girdle-off topic
Message:
Hey Selene,
Does it have an adapter for power tools, or does it use batteries?
:-)
eb Running Bear
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:01:03 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: eb
Subject: Black Leather Girdle-off topic
Message:
And a much more fun topic at that!
I am sure any such device could be attached eb. Even the manually manipulated ones :) :)

I think Robyn is onto something, the bidding should start at $100 at the very *least*
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:50:26 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: He did say to ignore the net.
Message:
He did, indeed, tell us to stay away on May 10 of 1998. Tonight, I will transcribe the tape for your reading pleasure. I'm sick to death of confirming this.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:54:02 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: He did say to ignore the net.
Message:
I'm sick to death of confirming this.

At last an answer to the original question! I really did want to know and I am sorry if I am making you repeat yourself Gail. I've been away a lot lately.
Thanks, I look forward to seeing the transcription.

As I said I have heard him ridicule the net before. Probably cause he can't control it.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 17:25:06 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I didn't mean to be rude. nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 17:54:32 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: you weren't
Message:
Selene - back from shopping - bought shoes (no red heels!)
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 06:41:46 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: Third World Superstar
Message:
op wrote in a thread below in response to my posting EV's boastful claim that 366 people in the US and Canada had receieved Knowledge in 1997 in the 3 sessions held there:

Actually, more like 20 Knowledge sessions per year. The ones in the USA have been among the smallest. In some places (India, Mauritius, Kathmandu, etc.) the sessions have been with as many as 3,000 or more people at a time. In other countries (Taiwan, Japan, e.g.) they are much smaller.

Here I go drawing conclusions. You'll forgive me for it, I know.

20 Knowledge sessions per year around the world seems a bit small on the Peace Bomb Scale, wouldn't you agree? Divide his income by twenty, and you have a Satguru who just isn't delivering the product, and getting paid very well not to. What other products in the West can you think of that are priced at ZERO-cents, and can't find any takers? Any half-assed pitchman at a county fair can sell apple peelers to the city folks who stand around watching his spiel. Yet Maharaji can't seem to find a way to give away his incredible gift to more than 366 people at a continental carnival.

Maharaji's 'popularity' is inversely proportionate to the availability of effective education and information systems. He's bringing in bigger numbers where there's little else to do.

There's a televangelist in this area who locally broadcasts footage of the thousands of Africans who flock to his overseas mission to save souls. He pronounces them healed of AIDS, and they raise their arms in gratitude. They'll be back next year too, probably. But the programs are being shown HERE where the money to heal this otherwise incurable disease is being donated by his TV audience. He doesn't cure any AIDS cases HERE, but then he doesn't make pronouncements where the results can be verified or disproved by educated people. I wonder how many thank you cards are being sent out to the Third World by Elan Vital.

I think that Helen's husband's analogy of Maharaji as a Rock Star is pretty accurate. He's a big draw in the small markets, but he's not even on the charts in the West. Still, it's his western groupies who underwrite his lifestyle by buying 'all his albums' and sending him extra money for not holding concerts. He's the hardliest-working man in showbiz.

And yet there are many aspirants in the West who are kept hanging for years while being encouraged to purchase Knowledge preparation videos from Visions International.

Can you say flim-flam?
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 11:06:20 (EDT)
From: steven
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Third World Superstar
Message:
Man you still are so behind.Thats no insult.Go to a video event for free.Check out a video for free.
This gift is to be past on by word of mouth only.Sir people who are so concerned with the dollar only see that.
Its none of your business what he does.
Or where he goes.
Or how he finances halls etc.
This feeling is not for the stone people of this planet.Its for the weak,the strong,the rich the poor,the blind,the deaf.But I know your head and I say to you and the deep Intellectuals of this world Maharaji does not JUDGE any one.He gives this gift free and does not ask anything except give it a fair chance.
Sir
you BRIAN seem to be doing all the judging and condemming here.Not Him
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 11:32:52 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: steven
Subject: Lookin' for a feelin'
Message:
Dear steven,

Did you know that feelings are mere physiological storms in the brain? OK, through in a few hormonal secretions, adrenalin, what have you, and voila! you have a feeling. They don't last. They come and go. What's the big deal?

You say that what the BM does, how he operates, is none of our business. But he is a public figure. He takes peoples' donations to his charity does he not? He has to report to the IRS like everyone else. These are public records.

For years he held himself out to be god. Now, ''The Master.''
He judges, denigrates, ridicules people all the time in his satsangs. He treats the people around him like shit. He rants and raves and pisses and moans. He gets drunk, stoned, fucks other peoples wives, has a mistress, on and on. He's a glutton for luxuries. Look at his house, his cars, his jet. You paid for these things.

You could have all the feelings you want for free, without the mind deadening and draining effects of the cult. Just read what you youself have written. It's pathetic.

I don't really believe you are inately dumb, but you are certainly numb. (Hey that rhymes!) You're out of shape mentally. When was the last time you read a book or participated in a challenging discussion without lapsing into premiespeak to explain your inability to keep up?

You are wasting your life.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 11:37:38 (EDT)
From: steven
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Lookin' for a feelin'
Message:
Come on gerry you do not even KNow me!Wasting my life?Do you think sailing,hiking,flying,loving,writing etc etc etc is wasting my life?Come on man.The experiance goes where I go.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 11:53:07 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: steven
Subject: Lookin' for a feelin'
Message:
Steven,

Good for you. I like those things too. And I don't have to spending a couple hours each day poking my eyeballs, spend evenings watching boring videos (yes I did see one, Long Beach something or other, and it sucked) nor do I have use my vacation time traveling to see fat ass, like you do. Unless, of course, you don't really ''practise.''

No, I don't know you. But I do know the premie routine. It centers around the BM. For life. Lots of time wasted. Cult activities to the exclusion of other things. Don't lie and say it isn't so.

Now what about the other stuff I said? Sorry I left you a convenient 'out' when I said you're wasting your life. This allowed you to use the trite ''you don't even know me'' line which gets used here all the time, BTW.

PS I bet you do a lot of writing. It really shows.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 13:00:52 (EDT)
From: steven
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Lookin' for a feelin'
Message:
Gerry again I say your so out of touch.You just do not get it.
Totally paralized people practice.They cannot press anything yet they still feel it.
Feel it Feeeeeeel it.Not taaaaaaalk about it.
Blind people practice.Deaf people practice.
Are you a co-dependent or something like that?Where you need to have to be with a person to go to a event.
How about just you?
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 13:22:41 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: steven
Subject: Sweet surrender
Message:
OK, I give up. You convinced me. I'm headed for the next event. Do you think He'll take me back after all the things I've said about Him? Will I still be able to get to 'that place inside?' Is it too late for me?
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 14:33:41 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: steven
Subject: Sweet surrender 2
Message:
There, I'm back. Just spent the last hour medi... I mean, 'practising.' What an incredible experience. I saw the SWING! And Gur...er, I mean Maharaji was on it! And tonight when I go to a prog..er, I mean 'event,' and listen to sats..I mean 'inspiration,' I'll be sure to bring my credit card so I can make a donat...I mean 'express my graditude.'

Boy, I've got a lot of brushing up to do, I can see..er, FEEL that.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 11:53:28 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: steven
Subject: Lookin' for a feelin'
Message:
Steve: Maybe I can say it in a slightly different way. We are NOT saying that you are brain-dead, OK? BUT, if you continue to try to flat-line your mind (the thinking part) and continue to 'suffer' stress from your inability to do so, there may be very real consequences. Mental illness may be the 'minor' part, in reality. What are the physical consequences? We don't know and neither do you, yet. All I know is that it ISN'T natural to flat-line your mind. I don't know how I got convinced that it was, but it isn't!

- Did that make it any clearer?
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 13:13:36 (EDT)
From: steven
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: children know
Message:
Mike years of costumes cover the child inside.Years of molding and shaping .
I am sure you are doing a very good job shaping certain people around you.Just as you have been.Yes you are very smart.Very learned.But your being tricked and tricked by the best of the best.
Your friends slap us throw pies in our faces.Sooo what.Mike the experiance is not for your following its for you. I do not flat line my brain.
What I focus on in me is very real and living and exciting.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 13:27:44 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: steven
Subject: What do children know
Message:
Steve: I appreciate what you are saying and thank you for the compliments. But the 'subject line' entry: Children Know, is a good thing to discuss. Exactly what do children know? I can tell you from having my own youngun, that they aren't as 'mindless' as one might think. Their minds are like vacuum cleaners soaking up everything that we care enough to teach them. They THINK, Steve. They 'enjoy' thinking and asking questions. They 'enjoy' getting answers and learning. They ENJOY USING THEIR MINDS. To oversimplify a child's curiosity and capacity for learning and reasoning is a typical mistake made by many, many people. They don't 'enjoy life' because they are mindless ditwads wandering around and spinning in circles. The enjoy life because they are learning about it and 'playing' with it. If you lose your ability to 'enjoy' learning, then you have lost the child-inside for sure. If you aren't awed by the universe and its contents, then you have lost the child inside. M's attempt to get us to stop thinking is not what will bring back our inner-child. All it will do is flat-line our minds so that we are nothing more than a mass that's in 'neutral' all of the time; going nowhere and learning nothing.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 15:35:16 (EDT)
From: Steven
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: What do children know
Message:
They feeeeeel.
Man your so filled up with worldly finite knowledge.Your brain is so cluttered with explanations.My friend
Intellect
and
wisdom
are two completely different things.
You cannot and your friends cannot understand my language cause

you listen with you arsinal of explanations! Not you hearts.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 16:26:27 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Steven
Subject: What do children know
Message:
Steve: Your knowledge of anatomy is not quite right. The heart doesn't have ears, so it can't listen. SERIOUSLY, though: Are you saying that you have experienced the infinite? If not, then you are parroting something that someone else has said (probably M). How do you KNOW that wordly knowledge is finite? Have you seen or experienced the 'edge' of the universe? If not, then you don't KNOW the answer there, either. My brain is not 'cluttered' as you put it. It is a well-used, and hopefully well-maintained, machine that has done yeoman service for me since my birth. It isn't cluttered, though. If it was, I wouldn't be able to write or speak coherently. One thing that I will say, though:

Intellect and wisdom go hand-in-hand. Without intellect, there is NO WISDOM! Wisdom is THINKING, remember?
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 18:04:25 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: GO GO GO MIKE
Message:
GO, Mike!
I am so sick of people talking about children as if they are these little pure ones experiencing only love, filled with faith, and sitting at the hem of Jesus. Those are our adult projections onto children.
My child's neurons are firing so fast I can't even keep up with her-- brains cells are designed to make connections and man, children's brains fire away 2X as fast as ours do. They are DRIVEN to learn constantly. They are not passive lambs they are more like tigers.

I am so sick of the idealization of children: it doesn't serve children for us to have all these illusions about them. Children are wonderful, but let's face it, children who are not given positive discipline and teaching (and of course love) can be self-centered brats, who think the world revolves around them. I shudder at the thought of a 2 year old in charge of the world. ANyway, just some thoughts fm the trenches of the early childhood profession.
Great post, Mike
Helen
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 20:44:24 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: You're asking for it, Steven
Message:
Steven,

You keep up this nonsense about children and one of us just might post the script for the Maharaji episode of South Park. You did see it, didn't you?
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 22:47:41 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: South Park Cameo
Message:
Tell all. I heard that Jesus was sitting in the bleachers in one of the episodes.
Helen
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 09:05:46 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: South Park Cameo
Message:
There's actually a short episode that you can download onto your computer. It's about a showdown between Jesus and Santa Claus. It's hilarious. If you do a web search for South Park, you might be able to find it.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 09:27:49 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: South Park Cameo
Message:
In fact, here it is:

South Park Specials

The episode I'm thinking of is 'Spirit Of Christmas (Jesus and Santa)'. You'll need RealAudio to view it, but you can dowload that ,also, if you don't have it.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:21:59 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: South Park Cameo
Message:
whee
Thaks Jerry! I had a link to comedy centrals south park stuff
but this is much better.
Oh boy, more ways to procrastinate doing stuff I don't want to do. I wish I was one third as creative as those writers. How do they do it?
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 20:33:44 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: South Park Cameo
Message:
I wish I was one third as creative as those writers. How do they do it?

I recently saw an interview of the creators of South Park. It's just two guys, who look to be in their 20s. They're just reliving they're childhood through Kenny and the gang. Me and my friends were a lot like that when we were kids too. When I watch South Park, I feel like I've gone back in time to hang out with my friends from grammar school. We were just as crazy. And we cursed just as much too.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:49:42 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: South Park Cameo
Message:
Imagine my surprise when I clicked on that thing and saw the cherubic faces of Kenny and all his little pals! Will wonders never cease!

My favorite was the one with the old man who said old age was like listening to Enya tapes all the time...

Thanks, Jerry.
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Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:09:52 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: South Park - grandpa
Message:
That was one of my favorite episodes. I don't have cable, a friend tapes them for me.
I thought, gee that's kind of harsh but it turned out to be so funny and strangely moral also.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 17:38:26 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: South Park - grandpa
Message:
Yes, SOuth Park is the kind of show where you are shocked but also you can't help laughing. It is quite the social satire. My best friend's sons (ages 22 and 17), who are like my own sons to me, have introduced me to all manner of gross disgusting things (SOmething ABout Mary, the Chuckie movies). Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery is my favorite! Of course my own daughter is too young for this stuff. I can just see trying to explain all the jokes--she'd demand an explanation too!

One innocent thing they are into is a Star Trek game that is interactive with your video screen. Wharf the clingon will come on and say 'You there, weak one! The one who just had his turn!' It's pretty funny.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 12:46:15 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Third World Superstar
Message:
Brian, I distinctly recall that earlier this year, someone posted the contents of a communication Elan Vital sent to financial contributors that said 366 people had received knowledge in North America in 1997. They were kind of boasting about it, although we pointed out that it was pretty pathetic. I mean, what the hell is he doing with all that money spent on planes and videos? He has been very successful in accumulating obscene wealth and an obscene house in Malibu, but he has been a pathetic failure in his so-called efforts to 'spread this knowledge.'

But I remember that figure because I took a little time to do the math. At that rate, it would take over 750,000 years for everyone in the US and Canada to receive knowledge, let alone to have time to watch endless videos, kiss Maharaji's feet, buy expensive trinkets at the bizarre bazaar he runs at festivals, and run up a huge credit card debt doing so and attending programs.
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Date: Tues, Oct 20, 1998 at 13:17:44 (EDT)
From: jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Third World Superstar
Message:
366 people had received knowledge in North America

That figure very likely includes people who have come from south am & europe to receive k in the US as there are not so many
sessions here & there .... pathetic really.

When you take into account that those glorious figures in India, Mauritius & Africa include a majority of superstitious persons who receive initiation from ANY guru, teacher, priest in ANY cult,
the result is less than zero, for 10% of the premies leave the
cult every year ANYWAY!

Among the people I know quite well here, a lot of them have left EV & m this year .....
Some for other gurus, Mother Meera seems quite successful, some to go back to their lives.
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