Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 27

From: Oct 20, 1998

To: Nov 4, 1998

Page: 2 Of: 5



Jean-Michel -:- Keep the Company of Saints -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 12:22:49 (EST)
__Mike -:- Keep the Company of Saints -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 12:50:55 (EST)
____Jean-Michel -:- Keep the Company of Saints -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 13:18:17 (EST)
____Helen -:- Keep the Company of Saints -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:05:39 (EST)
______VP -:- Keep the Company of Saints -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:47:21 (EST)
________Helen -:- Keep the Company of Saints -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:09:14 (EST)
________Selene -:- Malibu dream house -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:30:52 (EST)
__________VP -:- Malibu dream house -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 17:26:42 (EST)
__Helen -:- Keep the Company of Saints -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 13:57:17 (EST)
____Mike -:- M Says NO to photos -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:00:27 (EST)
______Helen -:- M Says NO to photos -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:07:02 (EST)
________M of Borg -:- Resistance is futile -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:19:05 (EST)
__________Worf the Clingon -:- Resistance is futile -:- Fri, Oct 30, 1998 at 17:14:35 (EST)
__Laura -:- Puke -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:25:49 (EST)
____Mike -:- The answer is obvious -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:30:40 (EST)
______Selene -:- The answer is obvious -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:34:07 (EST)
________Laura -:- The answer is obvious -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:37:15 (EST)
__________Mike -:- Easy Laura, easy... -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:45:32 (EST)
__________Selene -:- The answer is obvious -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:46:18 (EST)
____________Helen -:- The answer is obvious -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 21:26:03 (EST)
__________Mike -:- Another asset -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:17:30 (EST)
________Mike -:- I've GOT IT! -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:37:36 (EST)
__________Selene -:- I've GOT IT! -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:40:02 (EST)
________JW -:- The answer is obvious -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:49:05 (EST)
__________Selene -:- speech coach for -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:54:01 (EST)
____________Mike -:- Muzak editor -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:00:39 (EST)
______________Scat Cat -:- Job for the BM -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:24:57 (EST)
________________Mike -:- WE HAVE A WINNER!!!! (nt) -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:28:09 (EST)
__________Gsil -:- How about a jail bird for -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 20:33:45 (EST)
____________RT -:- Ka-beer says.. -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 21:53:03 (EST)
______________Helen -:- Ka-beer says.. -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 22:03:26 (EST)
______Jerry -:- The answer is obvious -:- Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 11:40:38 (EST)
________Mike -:- LOL, LOL (nt) -:- Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 12:08:13 (EST)
________Selene -:- The answer is obvious -:- Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 13:08:17 (EST)
__bill -:- Keep the Company of Saints -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 22:20:08 (EST)

Jim -:- Bullfuckingshit!! -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 10:39:25 (EST)
__Sir David -:- Bullfuckingshit!! -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 11:25:45 (EST)
__Jean-Michel -:- Nothing new Jim!!! -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 12:11:02 (EST)
____Helen -:- Nothing new Jim!!! -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 13:45:43 (EST)
__Mike -:- Bullfuckingshit!! -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 12:14:42 (EST)
__Helen -:- Bullfuckingshit!! -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 13:39:22 (EST)
____Way -:- Bullfuckingshit!! -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:11:55 (EST)
______Selene -:- one way to control the mind -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:38:17 (EST)
________JW -:- God, I Forgot -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:15:49 (EST)
__________Selene -:- God, I Forgot -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:31:25 (EST)
____________Helen -:- You're a dry one, sister! HA! -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 21:32:06 (EST)
______Helen -:- Bullfuckingshit!! -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:25:50 (EST)
____Mc -:- Bullfuckingshit!! -:- Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 21:06:31 (EST)
______Helen -:- Ain't it a shame -:- Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 22:00:25 (EST)

JW -:- BM's Approval for Website -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:32:28 (EST)
__Jim -:- BM's Approval for Website -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:58:21 (EST)
____Helen -:- BM's Approval for Website -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 21:24:36 (EST)
____JW -:- BM's Approval for Website -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 01:04:03 (EST)
____Jerry -:- BM's Approval for Website -:- Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 15:44:56 (EST)
______Mike -:- BM's Approval for Website -:- Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 16:39:57 (EST)

Mickey the Pharisee -:- Bye Kids! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 15:41:02 (EST)
__Mike -:- Bye Kids! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 15:46:13 (EST)
__Helen -:- Bye Kids! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:32:17 (EST)
____Mike -:- You're the funniest! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:39:43 (EST)
______Helen -:- Humor -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:46:24 (EST)
__bb -:- Bye Kids! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 18:30:51 (EST)
__Katie -:- Bye Kids! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 18:58:24 (EST)
__VP -:- Bye guru mariachi -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 19:54:54 (EST)
____Gail -:- Rots a Ruck! Break a leg! nt -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:02:16 (EST)
__Robyn -:- Bye Kids! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:13:33 (EST)
__Nigel -:- Quick Hi! and 'Bye! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:35:30 (EST)
__JW -:- Bye Kids! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:43:19 (EST)
____Gerry -:- Bye Kids! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 22:33:41 (EST)
__Mickey the Pharisee -:- Thanks Kids! -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 00:50:13 (EST)
____Helen -:- Thanks Kids! -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 13:26:49 (EST)
__eb -:- Hasta La Vista -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:10:49 (EST)

Jean-Michel -:- Early Days' Satsangs online -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 12:52:35 (EST)
__JW -:- Early Days' Satsangs online -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 14:10:21 (EST)
____Mike -:- Early Days' Satsangs online -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 14:56:05 (EST)

Jim -:- The measure of success? -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 11:51:47 (EST)
__Mike -:- Is seeds -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:02:20 (EST)
____Mike -:- oops.. -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:05:47 (EST)
__Helen -:- That vow was then, this is now -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:18:13 (EST)
____Mike -:- That vow was then, this is now -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:26:46 (EST)
______Helen -:- That vow was then, this is now -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:34:22 (EST)

Way -:- Gangaji -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 11:21:47 (EST)
__Gerry -:- The business of Spirituality -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 13:20:22 (EST)
____Mike -:- The business of Spirituality -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:20:37 (EST)
____Helen -:- The business of Spirituality -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:27:51 (EST)

larkin -:- for guess who...? -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 11:14:09 (EST)
__Selene -:- for guess who...? -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 12:14:15 (EST)
__JW -:- Very Good... -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 12:15:01 (EST)
__Helen -:- for guess who...? -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:55:35 (EST)

JW -:- Appreciation -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 17:06:24 (EST)
__Mike -:- What a great review! -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 17:38:22 (EST)
__Helen -:- Appreciation -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 23:35:55 (EST)

Laura -:- Knowledge is a handicap -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 15:28:30 (EST)
__Mike -:- Knowledge is a handicap -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 15:53:52 (EST)
____Gail -:- Self-inflicted tintinitus -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 18:18:09 (EST)
______Laura -:- Self-inflicted tintinitus -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 18:45:36 (EST)
____Laura -:- Knowledge is a handicap -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 18:42:09 (EST)
______Sir David -:- Unravelling the deception -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 20:49:18 (EST)
______Mickey the Pharisee -:- Knowledge is a handicap -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 02:38:43 (EST)
________Jerry -:- Knowledge is a handicap -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 09:19:09 (EST)
__________Jim -:- Knowledge is a handicap -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 09:38:16 (EST)

Sir Ex-Cheddar -:- Maharaji is a fridge freak -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 05:58:54 (EST)
__Gail -:- Maharaji is a germ freak -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 09:17:10 (EST)
____Jean-Michel -:- Maharaji is a germ freak -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 09:31:53 (EST)
____Selene -:- Maharaji is a germ freak -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 14:25:22 (EST)
__Jean-Michel -:- Maharaji is a fridge freak -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 09:28:32 (EST)
____Mike -:- Maharaji is a fridge freak -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 12:48:13 (EST)
______Jean-Michel -:- Maharaji is a fridge freak -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:00:12 (EST)
________Way -:- Maharaji is a fridge freak -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:47:36 (EST)
__________Helen -:- Maharaji is a fridge freak -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:56:49 (EST)
____________Mike -:- Maharaji is a fridge freak -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:58:09 (EST)
____________Robyn -:- Maharaji is a fridge freak -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 16:30:53 (EST)
______________Mike -:- Oh, no... -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 16:58:26 (EST)
________________Robyn -:- Oh, no... -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:20:14 (EST)
______________Helen -:- Maharaji is a fridge freak -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 23:04:22 (EST)
________________Robyn -:- Maharaji is a fridge freak -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:27:32 (EST)
__________________Helen -:- Maharaji is a fridge freak -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:52:59 (EST)
____________________Robyn -:- Helen, off topic -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 13:43:32 (EST)
______________________Helen -:- Robyn, off topic -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:14:09 (EST)
__RT -:- Magnet Poetry for Whirlpool -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 22:09:41 (EST)
____Gail -:- JSCA! Well done, RT. (nt) -:- Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 16:03:31 (EST)
______RT -:- JSCA! Well done, RT. (nt) -:- Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 20:40:29 (EST)

Mel Bourne -:- Jim......more disingenuousness -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 02:20:10 (EST)
__Brian -:- Jim......more disingenuousness -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 08:12:35 (EST)
__Gail -:- Dear Mel: You are joking? -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 09:05:29 (EST)
__Gerry -:- Mel Boring's dire warnings -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 09:50:04 (EST)
__Jerry -:- Jim......more disingenuousness -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 09:52:44 (EST)
__Sir David -:- Jim......more disingenuousness -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 11:07:52 (EST)
__Jim -:- establishing credibility -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 17:19:10 (EST)
__VP -:- Maharaji can't claim the same -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 21:57:04 (EST)
____Sir Ex-Cheddar -:- Maharaji can't claim the same -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 06:11:36 (EST)
______VP -:- Always wanted a title -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 22:48:32 (EST)
__JW -:- Mel, Really, Think About It -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 23:04:59 (EST)
____Helen -:- Thanks for that post (nt) -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:43:54 (EST)
____Mike -:- Financial liability -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 17:33:11 (EST)
______Helen -:- GM's Business Plan! (nt) -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 00:06:35 (EST)

Laura -:- 4,000? 6,000? 2.4 billion? -:- Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 23:54:15 (EDT)
__satguroovy -:- 144,000.and kieth -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 01:59:42 (EDT)
____Sir D -:- 144,000.and kieth -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 06:53:38 (EST)
______Jerry -:- Radhasoami Tradition -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 11:25:53 (EST)
________Satguroovy -:- Radhasoami Tradition -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 15:17:34 (EST)
__________Robyn -:- Radhasoami Tradition -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 16:36:21 (EST)
______satguroovy -:- Sir David -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 15:15:45 (EST)
________Sir David -:- Rule Britania -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 19:02:43 (EST)
__________Pollyana -:- Look on the bright side, David -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 19:07:33 (EST)
__________JW -:- Rule Britania -- Off Topic -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 17:16:12 (EST)
____________Sir David -:- Good man, JW -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 21:10:42 (EST)
______________Gail -:- Ya, but Castro is worse! -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 23:30:00 (EST)
________________Gerry -:- Ya, but Castro is worse! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 10:17:08 (EST)
________________JW -:- Ya, but Castro is worse! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 11:55:49 (EST)
__________________Gerry -:- Ya, but Castro is worse! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 12:46:33 (EST)
________________JW -:- Ya, but Castro is worse! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 19:02:43 (EST)
__________________Gerry -:- Ya, but Castro is worse! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 19:29:19 (EST)
______________JW -:- Good man, JW -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 11:59:21 (EST)
________________Gail -:- We need the sugar? nt -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 19:59:13 (EST)
________________Sir D -:- Good man, JW -:- Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 00:50:11 (EST)
__Brian -:- 4,000? 6,000? 2.4 billion? -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 06:11:28 (EST)
____Laura -:- What do I owe you? -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 19:19:10 (EST)


Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 12:22:49 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Keep the Company of Saints
Message:
No-one Can Comprehend the Embodied Form :
'It is not child's play to become lost into pure consciousness, it can only be achieved by the Divine Grace of the Perfect Master which comes to those devotees who have totally dedicated themselves in order to spread His Sacred Knowledge for the sake of humanity.' - 'Devotees are always in peace and attain the state of immortal bliss.' - ' Devotion is developed by the company of saints who always sing the praises of the Lord and remember His Holy Name. Without the company of saints there is no talk of the Lord, and one cannot be rid of doubts except through satsang. And until one's doubts are dispelled one cannot have deep rooted affection for the Lotus Feet of the Supreme Lord Guru Maharaj Ji. Doubts are only eradicated when one enjoys the fellowship of saints for a long time and listens to the delightful stories of the Perfect Master. When the Lord assumes human form He performs various lilas (divine actions) which can only be recognized by the faithful devotees but not by those who are steeped in lust, greed, anger and arrogance. The attributeless aspect of Godhead is easy to understand but no-one can comprehend the embodied form. Even the sages are bewildered on hearing of the various exploits of the Lord. The real devotee knows His lilas because he loves God for the sake of love alone, and asks nothing more than devotion.' (Mahatma Gurucharnand Ji)

This Knowledge is the Monopoly of All Perfect Teachers :
'He Himself incarnates in human body, for example Lord Ram, Lord Krishna, Lord Jesus etc.' - 'That life is Light called Divine Light in Bible, Noor llahi in the Koran, Vergo Jyoti in the Vedas, Dibya Jyoti in the Gita, and Param Prakash in the Ramayana. The cosmic vibration of the Name or Word … . . . the heavenly music called Anahad or Nad Bhrahma in the Vedas, and Vagai Asmani in the Koran. The taste of life .... Divine ambrosia, soma, Som Ras or Amsit of the Vedas is day and night flowing within us.' (Mahatma Mohani Bai Ji)

O Premieji, Keep the company of saints,
read Mahatmaji's satsang
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 12:50:55 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Keep the Company of Saints
Message:
JM: This quote from the full text of Gurucharnand's satsang has all of the elements that 'I' know we ALL enjoy talking about:

'Devote to Him what you have to devote. It will come back multiplied a millionfold, but do not think of that now. Remember! Guru Maharaj Ji is not hungry of our possessions. He is always selfcontented, perfect in His Divinity, His Knowledge is infinite in its application.'

Jeez, where do you start with this one! Kinda says it all, doesn't it?

- You'll get everything back 'a million fold,' but don't expect that 'right now.' So when SHOULD I expect it.... hmmmm?

- GMJ doesn't want our possessions. So why has he been so single-minded in the collection of same?

- He is 'perfect' in his divinity. What can I say.... NOT!

- K is infinite! Have you seen inifinity lately? What did it look like?
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 13:18:17 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Keep the Company of Saints
Message:
of course all this programming never came from the Lard!

Like this video's and posts' (enjoyinglife) editing business:
It's clearly premies' fault, not His!

Who can believe this?
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:05:39 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Keep the Company of Saints
Message:
Mike, he is only thinking of us when he asks us to give our money to him because of the many blessings that will then be bestowed to us. He is self-content, possessions mean nothing to him, but if it is our pleasure to give him a Porsche, how can he deny us this little pleasure? Ah, Guru Maharaji so perfect and pure. How I enjoy watching him drive his cars and fly his airplane! He is whatever I want him to be! He is my very own Perfect Master Ken doll! (Miami mansion sold separately)
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:47:21 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Keep the Company of Saints
Message:
Did you read the thread on the Maharaji action figure a while back? It was pretty good. We called his mansion the 'Maharaji Dream House.'
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:09:14 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Keep the Company of Saints
Message:
See, I knew that couldn't be an original idea on my part. Because it fits (and because a lot of us have kids who like Barbies and action figures)
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:30:52 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Malibu dream house
Message:
as in Barbie and Ken
Come on VP get your blasphemy straight here.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 17:26:42 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Malibu dream house
Message:
right, right...
but I think the thread was under 'Maharaji Dream House'.

It was a parody of the commercial where GI Joe pulls up to the doll house to pick up Barbie. She dresses up sexy and leaves Ken high and dry.We substituted Maharaji for GI Joe and Durja Ji for Barbie, I think. So much for short term memory...
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 13:57:17 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Keep the Company of Saints
Message:
Bewildered is a good word, alright. I am bewildered upon hearing about the exploits of the Lord--adultery, boozin', schmoozing with the rich, living large off the backs of the premies, lyin', cheatin', contributing to people becoming disillusioned, disgusted, and disconnected
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:00:27 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: M Says NO to photos
Message:
Helen: Another quote just keeps hitting me, too. The one where he is talking about the 'garden of life' and says, 'not to photograph it, not to judge it, not to try to change it, but rather to allow yourself to be assimilated into it just like the elements.'

- So my question is: How many premies threw away their cameras? OR did they donate them to M, because he would certainly know what to do with your new Leica.....

- 'Don't judge' the garden of life, eh? Well, judgement is that which keeps you out of the jaws of a bear (shark, mountain lion, moray eel, whatever). I think I'll continue judging, thank you.

- 'Don't try to change it.' Yeah, go forbid you make something of yourself. Just sit like a lump and do nothing for those whose lot in this 'garden' hasn't been so hot!

- Additionally, with Mel's concern about suicide victims that we may cause, I notice that M seems to be advocating 'elemental assimilation.' Hey, don't laugh, some poor depressed individual may actually make that connection. But, of course, HE's not responsible for people misinterpreting his words, only us mere mortals have that responsibility! I had an aquaintence, a long time ago, that had a bad trip and continues to think that he is an orange. He won't let anyone near him because he's afraid they'll 'squeeze' him. Is that assimilated enough?
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:07:02 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: M Says NO to photos
Message:
When I feel like I'm being assimilated it is not a pleasant feeling. The final trimester of pregnancy is like that--you're (well not you, but you catch my drift) are in an estrogen-induced fog. Let's face it, that kind of foggyiness really doesn't feel very good.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:19:05 (EST)
From: M of Borg
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Resistance is futile
Message:
Helen: You will be assimilated.... All resistance is futile!
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Date: Fri, Oct 30, 1998 at 17:14:35 (EST)
From: Worf the Clingon
Email: None
To: M of Borg
Subject: Resistance is futile
Message:
Get thee behind me, Borg!
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:25:49 (EST)
From: Laura
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Puke
Message:
Thanks for the satsang and the link to Mahatmaji's satsang. The more I read it the more nauseous I become. I bought into this crap 110%. Hey Maharaji Ji - you are a big fake! Lots of people out there still believing in you - but when they let down their guard you will have to get a real job. That's a good one. What kind of job will GM get? What is it that he is good at?
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:30:40 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Laura
Subject: The answer is obvious
Message:
Laura: You should NEVER have any doubts as to his obvious qualifications: (1) The fast food industry, (2) Insurance salesman and (3) Used Cars. Tsk, tsk... ;-)
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:34:07 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: The answer is obvious
Message:
Corporate consultant for the Landmark Forum crew

Bartender
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:37:15 (EST)
From: Laura
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: The answer is obvious
Message:
No, no -not good enough. He needs a job that will pay him back for the ill he has done to so many people. I can't believe this but I want revenge. I mean, I am really angry. How dare he? Look at the things he has said. I believed he was God and that I was chosen and all my friends were Saints. I'm sitting here at work cracking up. I think they're going to carry me away soon.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:45:32 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Laura
Subject: Easy Laura, easy...
Message:
Laura: Take it easy.... Anger is one of the necessary steps to 'freedom.' It will pass (at least the really nasty anger will). I'm still pissed, but it's quite a bit less than when all of this first hit me. It's just another indication that you are recovering from the nightmare. ok? :-)
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:46:18 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Laura
Subject: The answer is obvious
Message:
I hope you mean cracking up as in laughing.
BM isn't worth the other kind of cracking up
Laura.
We all are angry or have been angry. It's good
that you are in touch with it.
Better than being a zombie.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 21:26:03 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene & Laura
Subject: The answer is obvious
Message:
Amen, Sister Selene. Anger is healthy and justified in this case. Like Mike said, it is part of reclaiming what was lost, Laura. Do not be afraid of it. Just don't do ANYTHING to hurt yourself, OK?
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:17:30 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Laura
Subject: Another asset
Message:
Laura: In addition to my post above, please let me add a little something, for what it's worth.

- In addition to your many fine qualities/attributes that we have discussed before, you can now add a MAJOR asset: A razor-sharp ability to detect manipulation. This is an asset that is truely worth its weight in any precious metal. It will assist you in your day-to-day life from now on. The ease with which WE WERE ALL hoodwinked will never happen again, to ANY of us. Wait and see. I think you'll agree that if there were one 'good' thing that this whole experience gave us, this would be it.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:37:36 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I've GOT IT!
Message:
Selene: It just struck me what his natural talent would be: Have you seen the Miller Lite commercial with the fat guy that's doing the 'twist' because the bottle says 'twist to open?' I'm picturing him during his bare-chest dancing period and...... well there's the connection... he he he :-)
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:40:02 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: I've GOT IT!
Message:
I wonder if he auditioned for The Full Monty?
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:49:05 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: The answer is obvious
Message:
Used car salesman?

Paperweight?

Parking lot attendant?

Movie theater ticket-taker?

A clothing model for really, really short fat guys at a new 'short and fat' mens' clothing stores?

A consultant on fundraising for the Moonies?

Making and selling recording of his 'satsangs' as a sure-fire cure for insomnia?

A speech coach for anyone who wants to say nothing and make it sound profound -- politicians, new-age spiritualists, other cult-leaders?
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:54:01 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: speech coach for
Message:
University administrators. Microsoft.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:00:39 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Muzak editor
Message:
Selena: Since he has such an array of experience with meaningless 'background noise' generation. Muzak Editor!
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:24:57 (EST)
From: Scat Cat
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Job for the BM
Message:
Bed pan cleaner for thousand plus bed hospital. And he'd have to use his tongue.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:28:09 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Scat Cat
Subject: WE HAVE A WINNER!!!! (nt)
Message:
What can I add?
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 20:33:45 (EST)
From: Gsil
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: How about a jail bird for
Message:
tax evasion, fraud, and out-and-out miscarriages of justice everyday.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 21:53:03 (EST)
From: RT
Email: mmmmmmmmm
To: Gail
Subject: Ka-beer says..
Message:
..Just as the past Perfect Master ferries souls over the waters of Maya-mi, in future incarnation the Shatguru will find himself bereft of devotees. Mostly due to ex-premie.org, and the awakening of the people to Truth without a leash.

Lo, onto him will be offered the position of FERRY BOAT captain. For HE will wear a baseball cap with the omlette design, signifying his authority to carry the vechiles of the people. Lo, HIS shift will be during the rush hour, to Long Island, for HE is all power-motor full and will collect the offerings of the masses. Cash, check or VISA.

Ka-beer has also seen this: The Shatguru will moonlight at a local airport, flying tourists over Six Flags in New Jersey. His vocal chords will be damaged by the pollution of the Kali Yuga, and so he will not speak but use his eyes to point to the money till.

Ka-beer says this: The karma of a fraudulent Guru is bad. Very bad. Be afraid for this soul who has fooled millions with his mission. Payback is a bitch...Prem Pal, Sins Rot.

RT :(
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 22:03:26 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: Ka-beer says..
Message:
Oh great Ka-beer your prophesy proves that there is a God of JUSTICE!
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Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 11:40:38 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: The answer is obvious
Message:
Used Cars Salesman, Mike. Perfect. I was going to say snake oil salesman, myself, but he's already in that business, isn't he? Can you imagine buying a car from M?

Buyer: How many miles are on it?
Maharaji: It's a brand new engine.
Buyer: It doesn't look brand new.
Maharaji: You're not looking at it right.
Buyer: What do you mean, I'm not looking at it right. I'm looking right at it.
Maharaji: You're looking at it with your eyes. You have to look at it with your heart.
Buyer: I don't understand.
Maharaji: Now you're thinking about it. Don't think about it. Just feel it in your heart.
Buyer: Just feel it?
Maharaji: Yes, just feel it. Only through feeling can you see how beautiful the engine really is. When you've done that, you'll understand that this is the best car in the lot, none better.
Buyer: Really?
Maharaji: Really. But don't take my word for it. Buy the car and see for yourself.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 12:08:13 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: LOL, LOL (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 13:08:17 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: The answer is obvious
Message:
That analogy was great. Very funny. The weird thing is,
it would work for all the cults, just substitute the noun.
I have had that one tried on me so many times! Fell for it
more times than I wanted to also. Never with a car though, but I did come close with those new Mustangs.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 22:20:08 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Keep the Company of Saints
Message:
'lust greed anger and arrogance.'

shri hens said in your quote of insanity that the
qualities listed were those that the people have that cannot
attain the state of immortal bliss.
But on dec 96 friday and saturday events rawat
admits to long term imprisonment by those exact qualities.
lust anger greed darkness.

'No one can comprehend the embodied form'
Not true! we are proving that by our posts.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 10:39:25 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Bullfuckingshit!!
Message:
I came on the third day. This time he asked: 'Will you dedicate yourself to Knowledge?'

This is from yet another nauseating testimonial on the EnjoythePloy site. From one Ms. Racheli someone or other, yet another amazingly successful premie (aren't there any so-so's out there? How 'botu a few failures even? You know, 'Blessed are the meek'). This woman claims that she intensely threw herself into satsang for three days back in 1974, each day asking for K and each day being told to wait (Milarepa Lite?). Finally, on the third day the 'instructor' asked her the above question.

BULLSHIT!!

In 1974 he would have asked her 'Will you dedicate yourself to Guru Maharaj Ji?' , not 'Knowledge'. Now either she's lying or the editors at Premie Pravda are rewriting the past. Either way, it's sick.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 11:25:45 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Jim
Subject: Bullfuckingshit!!
Message:
Just as an aside, as I remember it, since I've been out of contact with premies for years, I remember that most premies found it difficult to get any experience from meditation most of the time, were often depressed and sad and relied on a good 'satsang' to lift them out of it and give them some inspiration to carry on with the whole trip.

In effect, most premies WERE failures in the seventies and we looked to the Lord of the Universe, Maharaji, to save us. If now all premies are sucessful and in bliss and joy all the time then they have either all been 'lifted up' by the Lord of the Universe or they are lying.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 12:11:02 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Nothing new Jim!!!
Message:
Hey Jim, look what I've just found today!

In one of his early discourses, Satguru Maharaj Ji promised to spread the Knowledge of God to the entire world in his lifetime. Before a million devotees in New Delhi, he revealed his plan for a great 'Peace Bomb'. After weeping for some moments, he said:

'These tears are not because I am remembering my Father, but because I am feeling so much power in me. They are tears of strength. I have come so powerful. I have come to the world. Whenever the great come, the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should ear that the savior of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who come to me are already saved. Now it's your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy?
Give me your love, I will give you peace. Come to me, I will relieve you of your suffering. I am the source of peace in this world. All I ask you is your love. All I ask is your trust. And what I can give you is such peace as will never die. I declare I will establish peace in this world. But what can I do unless men come to me with love in their heart and a keen wish to know peace and Truth?'
(Who is Guru Maharaj Ji, page 14-15)

Another (un-censored?) version of this Satsang had been previously published by Divine Light Mission (Divine Light Magazine, Vol 1, No 3 - December 1971):

'Give me your love, I will give you peace. Come to me, I will relieve you of your suffering. I am the source of peace in this world. Why won't you believe me? You poor suffering fools, lost in the world, why won't you come to me for help? All I ask you is your love. All I ask is your trust. And what I can give you is such peace as will never die. Yet now, how few people are coming through. I declare I will establish peace in this world. Many times I have come. This time I come with more power than ever before. But what can I do unless men come to me with love in their heart and a desire to know peace and Truth?'

Of course I had to update my 'peace bomb' page accordingly!!
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 13:45:43 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Nothing new Jim!!!
Message:
My ears hear but my eyes & my mind see, Maharaji, that you are the worldliest of the worldly.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 12:14:42 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Bullfuckingshit!!
Message:
Jim: You are ABSOLUTELY correct from my experience back then. Never once was I asked if I'd dedicate myself to K. The only question that I was ever asked about 'dedication' was that of willingness to dedicate to GMJ, exclusively. The mahatmas were pretty vociferous and very specific about where our dedication belonged. I agree with you, this person was, either, on a different planet or is lying!
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 13:39:22 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Bullfuckingshit!!
Message:
Is this like the requirement of asking the rabbi three times that you want to convert? I know Knowledge is hopelessly derivative of other traditions, but not this too! What is this world coming to? WHere are my smelling salts?
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:11:55 (EST)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Bullfuckingshit!!
Message:
During the early ashram days, I brought the four symbols of knowledge to a jeweler and asked that a medallion be created for me: a small silver square imprinted with a sun, goblet, wave, and harp. I wore it until the next visit of an initiator, who declared to all at evening satsang that I was incorrect to put my focus on Knowledge. I'm surprised he didn't toss me a Maharaji button right on the spot.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:38:17 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: one way to control the mind
Message:
They asked us if we would cut off our heads for the BM.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:15:49 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: God, I Forgot
Message:
They asked us if we would cut off our heads for the BM.

I wasn't personally asked this by the Mahatma, but I know people who were! I had forgotten this. Thanks Selene, I think.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:31:25 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: God, I Forgot
Message:
Yeah it was the Mahatma who like breasts - guess as long as they were there the head could go
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 21:32:06 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: You're a dry one, sister! HA!
Message:
nt!
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:25:50 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Bullfuckingshit!!
Message:
Man that sounds so Nazi-like to me 'Your focus should be on GM and nothing else. Remove the medallion at once, comrade.'I guess that inititator was brainwashed real good (I always felt so bad for them...you could tell they weren't having a good 'experience'. )
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Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 21:06:31 (EST)
From: Mc
Email: e_mc_42@hotmail.com
To: Helen
Subject: Bullfuckingshit!!
Message:
...like the requirement of asking the rabbi three times that you want to convert? Coincidentally, I had to ask Mahatma Fakiranad three times before I was chosen to receive knowledge. I had to travel from Philadelphia->New York->Boston (one of those aspirant pilgramige things) and then say (as convincingly as possible) that I wanted to devote my life to M with no mention of receving K - I caught on that this was indeed the way to go & was successful in convincing myself & him as well. Hey, it felt right at the time...
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Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 22:00:25 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Mc
Subject: Ain't it a shame
Message:
Isn't it shameful & weirdly ironic how we were willing to be totally inauthentic in order to get this knowledge that supposedly puts us in touch with our authentic selves?
Oy!
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:32:28 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: BM's Approval for Website
Message:
It seems that himself has given the premies at least tacit permission to talk about (I'm not sure what) on the internet over on that enjoyinglife website. Monika Lewis, who is (or was) reputably Maharaji's mistress and Patrick McCracken, who I understand is Maharaji's valet, have both posted 'wits and wisdom' and in both cases it was quotes from Maharaji, although I wouldn't call what they wrote either wit or wisdom. I doubt very much that either of them would do that without explicit permission from himself.

I can't say the premies are really talking about knowledge though, and certainly not about who or what they think Mahrarji is, but they at least are being given permission to talk about their lives before knowledge and how happy and grateful they are afterwards. That seems to be about it. No spiritual theories about what is going on, no mention of any specificity about Maharaji's 'I-am-god' period, no mention of devotion, darshan, darshan dreams, agya, 'you are my father,' very little about the poverty and celibacy of the ashrams, and no mention that ex-premies even exist. Either people are self-censoring for that stuff, or the website operators are doing it. I speculate that it's some of both.

I guess they just haven't figured out how to do the 'conversations' section, though. I will be interested to see if that ever happens. I doubt very much Maharaji will allow open communication by anyone who is interested in real time, including people who don't like Maharaji very much, or who have all kinds of mumbo jumbo ideas about him, fostered by his own pronouncements in the 70s and 80s. I don't know how they will be able to pretend there is free and open discussion, when it will have to be heavily controlled.

As we know, that sort of open discussion is deadly to how Maharaji operates. What ARE the website operators to do?
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:58:21 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: BM's Approval for Website
Message:
As we know, that sort of open discussion is deadly to how Maharaji operates. What ARE the website operators to do?

Joe,

I share your concern. Although, I'm not so sure premies are censored who post there. I did think that a few weeks ago but now I'm starting to wonder. I read these goofs talking about their HAPPY HAPPY lives and I begin to think that the current premie modality (a word I NEVER use) is to live a life of STASIS, not PROGRESS. The premies don't talk about Maharaji being the Lord because, these days, they don't really need a Lord. A Lord is useful for God realization, that kind of thing. The premies speak of HAPPINESS because they have a HAPPINESS master. They're not going anywhere. They're there. HAPPY. Like, as I've said, Chris Dickey. And they're happy to simply go along to get along. They've picked up on the current premie speak and revel in its vapidity.

Maharaji used to ask us to weather the incredible g-forces of blasting off past the speed of sound, leaving behind our former selves, turning in to true beacons of divine light. Buckle up, everyone, and don't give up no matter what. We're approaching speeds of mach 2. Now he soothes them with empty videosang and rocks them to sleep gently with smiles on their faces (all the while slipping yet another pudgy set of fingers into their wallets).

Did you see the entry on the premie page by Mr Goldberg? Like the so many of the others, he starts off bragging about himself, his worldliness, his success. Okay, fine, he travels around the world exploiting cheap labour for the shmata trade. Wherever he goes all he can see is one thing -- whether they know it or not, everyone wants what he's got. They're just panting for it, those poor savages.

His great achievement, as he describes it, is in suckering a couple of Mexican associates into watching a video or two with him when they visit in L.A. What he doesn't tell us about is how dependent these people are on his business. For all we know, they're laughing themself silly as they leave him behind after these obligatory video sessions. Of course, Mr Goldberg would never see that. He's already satisfied that the whole world wants his special little something. I don't know. I guess I'm rambling a bit. Is this off topic from your post? Sorry. I just wanted to say that that guy sounds like a real asshole.
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 21:24:36 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: BM's Approval for Website
Message:
HA! Can you imagine? Getting his associates to watch satsang movies? God, that is so cheesy.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 01:04:03 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: BM's Approval for Website
Message:
The premies don't talk about Maharaji being the Lord because, these days, they don't really need a Lord. A Lord is useful for God realization, that kind of thing. The premies speak of HAPPINESS because they have a HAPPINESS master. They're not going anywhere.

I agree they are not going anywhere, but I think many premies think Maharaji IS the Lord, but are following what they think he wants and don't mention it. It isn't that different than what we did 15 years ago, when we didn't tell people at introductory programs that we believed Maharaji was the incarnation of god, even though the vast majority of premies did.

In that sense, EVERYTHING is an introductory program these days. HAPPINESS and ENJOYING LIFE are the safe buzzwords. Who could possibly have a problem with that? But I don't think for a minute premies think that's the whole story.

Did you see the entry on the premie page by Mr Goldberg? Like the so many of the others, he starts off bragging about himself, his worldliness, his success. Okay, fine, he travels around the world exploiting cheap labour for the shmata trade. Wherever he goes all he can see is one thing -- whether they know it or not, everyone wants what he's got. They're just panting for it, those poor savages.

I did see it and boy was I shocked. It was revolting. I nearly lost my lunch when I read it. What a conceited, valueless, exploitive, money-grubbing individual. He thinks nobody exudes anything but rank hysteria and up-tightness but premies, namely him, the highest of the high premies. I gotta tell ya, I've seen some slimy shark lawyers in my day who were some of the calmest, most centered people I ever met and they weren't premies.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 15:44:56 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: BM's Approval for Website
Message:
If I were to describe the M of yesteryear compared to now, it would be as an amphetamine to a sedative. Premies of yesteryear were all speed freaks. Now they're stoned on seconal. It's all at the beckoning of the master. Whatever drug he's selling, they're buying. He's the best drug dealer I've ever seen. What's unique about him is that he can keep you high just talking about the drugs he's selling, you never even have to buy them, just buy what he has to say about them. That's the best they're going to get anyway. The drug itself doesn't even really exist, but oh, can M talk about it. Everybody wants what M is selling. He can keep you hanging in anticipation, forever, on how good his drugs are. A true master.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 16:39:57 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: BM's Approval for Website
Message:
Jerry: What you said reminds me of the 'perma-stone' hoax of the late 60's / early 70's. Everybody heard about it, everybody 'knew' someone that had seen it, but NO ONE knew where to get it.... he he he. Remember that one?
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 15:41:02 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: Everyone
Subject: Bye Kids!
Message:
Bye Kids! I'm off to Panama for a job interview and I will be away for several days. Every time I leave the site for a while, you all become incredibly prolific and post enormous threads and it takes me several weeks to catch up! Maybe a premie will stray into the trap and you can tease the poor soul for a few days. Just remember, Jesus didn't teach this knowledge, and Jim, Jesus didn't fuck you up, everybody knows that it was that cheap teen-age rock 'n roll music you listen to and play!!
Love in Christ,
Padre Michael+
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 15:46:13 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Bye Kids!
Message:
Mickey: Good Luck on the interview. INSIST upon a good network connection before you take the job, OK? ;-)
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:32:17 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Bye Kids!
Message:
We need to have a weekly updated summary on the website forum, for those of us who don't always have time to read every post, much like those one paragraph summaries of the soaps that you see in the newspapers:

'This week on forum, a weird guy claiming to be a vet threatened Jim and Mike. Brian poofed him. There was much talk of avocados and Jesus.'
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:39:43 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: You're the funniest!
Message:
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha You better not be claiming to have no sense of humor, Helen!
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:46:24 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Humor
Message:
I just love to laugh! there's a lot of laughs to be had on this site, let me tell you, brother (and in life in general).
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 18:30:51 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Bye Kids!
Message:
Promise you will give a report on life there ok?
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 18:58:24 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Bye Kids!
Message:
Dear Michael/Mickey - Wishing you the best of luck on the interview. I hope you get the job if you want it (AND if Mona wants it - very important!)

Lots of love from
Katie
and
Peter
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 19:54:54 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Bye guru mariachi
Message:
Yeah, I was gone for one month and NEVER got caught up.

We'll miss you, our guru mariachi. Keep in touch, Padre. Hope all goes well with the job interview. They would be very fortunate to have you, even if you won't perform pet wedding ceremonies-snicker.
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:02:16 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Rots a Ruck! Break a leg! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:13:33 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Bye Kids!
Message:
Dear Mickey,
GOOD LUCK! At least if you move we won't realize 'cause you'll still be able to post!
Love ya,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:35:30 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Quick Hi! and 'Bye!
Message:
You'll sail it, Mickey. Relax, brother (or should that be father?) whatever...
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:43:19 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Bye Kids!
Message:
Good luck on the interview, Mickey. What is the job in Panama, teaching 'Liberation Theology?'
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 22:33:41 (EST)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Mick
Subject: Bye Kids!
Message:
What is the job in Panama, teaching 'Liberation Theology?'

NO DOUBT!

Just kidding! Good luck, Padre!
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 00:50:13 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Everybody
Subject: Thanks Kids!
Message:
Thanks everyone, you are all so kind! There are three openings in the Diocese of Panama, and one of them is the position of Dean of the Cathedral de San Lucas; I have been a candidate for that position since June. It would be an interesting job for a period of three years, and I would get to be in Panama when the canal changes hands! Let ya know what happens when I return.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 13:26:49 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Thanks Kids!
Message:
Good luck, Mickey!
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 16:10:49 (EST)
From: eb
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Hasta La Vista
Message:
Oh mi Guru Mariachi,

A mi me gusta mucho su musica! Cuando vamos a la casa de VP, espero que cantas para todos. Buenas suerte en Panama!

Elena
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 12:52:35 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Early Days' Satsangs online
Message:
Finally get to read Maharaji's Early Days' Satsangs!

Our Treasure Increases
'You have got to get Knowledge as soon as possible, otherwise the shop will be closed. This Knowledge will grow more and more expensive; it will not remain cheap.' - ' He who wants pleasure will give pain to others; he who wants profit will think of giving loss to someone else.' - 'A day is going to come when all of the religions created by men are going to finish and only one true religion will remain.' - 'I have got the same soul as Guru Maharaj Ji. Guru Maharaj Ji is within me. He is in everyone. He is present in everyone and also in me. So realize that Guru Maharaj Ji is himself speaking. Do not look only at my body.' - 'I will unite all religions. I only need the grace of Guru Maharaj Ji. We will become such a multitude that we will fill every hall and every temple.' -'It is said, 'Who sows thorns for you, sow for him flowers; you will have flowers upon flowers in return but he will have only thorns.''

Where Goes All The Sadness
'Everything in the world is good, but one thing I dislike beyond description. When people set out for a journey, first they worry about their arrangements: 'Oh, this thing is left, that thing is left.' It is a very bad habit.' - 'When we start from a place, at first we should meditate upon God. Whatever a man does, he understands that if he does this thing, he will get the best result. It is a great mistake to think of the result.'

What's The Trouble
'Take refuge in Guru Maharaj Ji. When you have this Knowledge, you will not need to know anything else.'- 'Just meditate. Because you don't have to do anything, really. Liberation is attained by itself.'

Divine Light - Special Internet Issue - Volume 2, Issue 2
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 14:10:21 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Early Days' Satsangs online
Message:
Thank you JM, very interesting stuff. I particularly liked the following stuff that Big M had to say.

This Knowledge will grow more and more expensive; it will not remain cheap.'

When was it ever cheap? And if knowledge is going up in price, do you think Big M might have an end of August clearance sale one of these days?

Do not look only at my body.'

Okay, it's a deal.

- 'I will unite all religions. I only need the grace of Guru Maharaj Ji. We will become such a multitude that we will fill every hall and every temple.'

Maybe this is the big, new event that just about to happen, that Maharaji apparently said in Japan, both the uniting all religions, and also becoming such a multitude. Any day now.

When you have this Knowledge, you will not need to know anything else.

Recipe for stupidty?
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 14:56:05 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Early Days' Satsangs online
Message:
Now JW, he says quite clearly that all he needs is GMJ's grace. Like us, he's obviously been waiting for awhile! Shall I break it to him? Oh, why not... Hey M, don't hold your breath (pun intended) waiting on grace. Better yet, DO hold your breath until the grace manifests itself! he he he. :-)
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 11:51:47 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The measure of success?
Message:
This, from the latest crop of testimonials:

But as he had been enthusiastic and had invited me to listen to people talking about their experiences with Knowledge, I felt obliged and went. After listening to a person speak for 10 minutes, tears began to fall and I cried and cried. After a few months I received Knowledge and since that day, I have never felt alone. And so much has happened since then.

My husband and I separated.......

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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:02:20 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Is seeds
Message:
Jim: While cruisin' the enjoyingdeadseeds site, I spied this jewel from Giuseppe. It's a quote in the rememberances area: 'A seed can never die...' He obviously hasn't been listening to his master, has he?
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:05:47 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: oops..
Message:
What Mike meant to say was 'it's from the wit & wisdom area.'
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:18:13 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: That vow was then, this is now
Message:
'My husband and I separated, I lost my job & had to declare bankruptcy but it is sooo beautiful!'
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:26:46 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: That vow was then, this is now
Message:
Helen: 'It's like' M said in kyoto: 'Fly, take the impossible step and fly across this chasm, freeing yourself of all the weights of ideas, expectations and concepts.'

- Yes, M, yes, free myself from concepts like family, friends, love, vows, covenents, promises, integrity and truth. Just 'fly' away from these...fly my pretties, fly...

- This flying business reminds me of the folks that used to take lsd and 'fly' off the top of a building. We all know what happened to them, right?
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:34:22 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: That vow was then, this is now
Message:
Fly my pretties fly, into the pits of HELL (nefarious laugh)
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 11:21:47 (EST)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Gangaji
Message:
Milivoi Krkowitch, who posts to enjoylife, has his own page. Lo and behold, his other guru, Gangaji, sounds like a carbon copy of M. in many ways, with the exception that she is female. Do a search for 'Mili's page' and for 'Gangaji'. Videos of 'Satsang with Gangaji' are available in people's homes in 100 locations world wide, and growing. You too can help the effort, especially if you have any extra real estate or stocks and bonds.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 13:20:22 (EST)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: The business of Spirituality
Message:
Hi Way,

I heard of her before she was a ''major corporation.'' She is from the Advaita tradition of Maharshi Ramana. I don't find this belief system offensive like the Rhadasaomi bhakti cults. I do think it is weird when it becomes a business enterprise. But I guess everyone has to eat.

BTW, I frequently get solicitations from the Catholic church (specifically, the high school I attended) to make donations. They too suggest gifts of real estate, stocks and bonds, and remembering them in your will. Creepy, huh?
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:20:37 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: The business of Spirituality
Message:
Gerry: You said, 'They too suggest gifts of real estate, stocks and bonds, and remembering them in your will. Creepy, huh?'

- It seems that this is a 'standard,' now. The Nature Conservancy does the same thing, as do many other non-profit organizations. I get a little squeemish about those requests, but they seem to be the norm these days.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:27:51 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: The business of Spirituality
Message:
Yes and isn't the idea of an annulment weird? The Catholic churches' way of saying 'It never happened, OK?' hmmm,more of that revisionist stuff again...
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 11:14:09 (EST)
From: larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: for guess who...?
Message:
Apologists use five surefire evasions
(You too will use the full set, by and by)
Five sleazy tactics fit for all occasions
When simple logic leaves them high and dry

One: deny the facts of what you’re hearing
Accuse your foes of slander and of lies
And lest the truth diverts the course you’re steering
Plug ears, tongue up, watch breath and squeeze your eyes.

Two: admit the facts (with some false sadness)
But write them off against some nobler end
That justifies the mindwarps and the madness
Which breaks some fellow-traveller now and again.

Three: ignore the facts and turn your firepower
Upon the messengers who brings the news
Who dared to blow a raspberry at your higher power
Especially when you can’t refute their views.

Four: move on , restart the conversation
Change the subject when it gets too tough
‘Till folk get tired of your prevarication
And finally give you space to spout your stuff.

Five: shout ‘foul!’ then tell them ‘I’m not playing...
Just because you’re clean-bowled, centre stump.
Truth is, we hear exactly what you’re saying
And sorry, pal, you’re giving me the hump.
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 12:14:15 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: larkin
Subject: for guess who...?
Message:
So good to hear from you again Larkin. And you just don't know how timely that was. This morning I received an email from a true believer, he was mad at me for challenging him, and he used EVERY tactic you described. I was sitting here feeling bewildered and somewhat sorry for myself and then I read this. THANK YOU.
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 12:15:01 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: larkin
Subject: Very Good...
Message:
Seems you have been reading the posts from some of the premies. Excellent analysis, and very accurate.

I would add one more:

Admit that the facts may or may not be true but say that since those negative things weren't experienced personally, they don't care. What happened to other people is of absolutely no concern to narcissistic cult members who focus ONLY on their OWN EXPERIENCE, and Maharaji, of course.

Also, sometimes premies say things verging on the following:

'The things you are accusing Maharaji of are false, they never happened, they couldn't possibly have happened, and besides they don't happen anymore.'

By the way, I wanted to mention that I have yet to hear one premie deny that Maharaji has extramarital affairs, has a mistress, has a drinking problem, takes drugs, and has an obsessive materialism. Funny, I think those things are such common knowledge among premies, that they don't even bother to deny them.
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:55:35 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: larkin
Subject: for guess who...?
Message:
Did you write that? I'm very impressed. Very well done.
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 17:06:24 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Appreciation
Message:
Last Friday night, I had dinner with a couple of terrific people, one of whom I probably had not seen for 15 years. We all knew each other as premies.

Anyway, I just wanted to convey that, once again, I heard about the impact this website has and how it functions as a real public service. This person, now an ex-premie, said that this website and the forum enabled her to deprogram herself and to once and for all get out of the Maharaji cult for good. This person was very grateful to everyone who helps to keep the website going and who participates is the forum discussions.

Because this ex-premie has never posted on the forum, none of us would likely ever know the impact open discussion and sharing of our experiences has had. So, just to let you know, what happens here really is appreciated by people we might never even hear from.

Just wanted to pass this along.
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 17:38:22 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: What a great review!
Message:
JW: Two thumbs up! I guess we couldn't ask for much more. ;-)
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 23:35:55 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Appreciation
Message:
That is great. I like the way you put that, that she was able to 'deprogram herself'. Her life will never be the same, it will be BETTER!
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 15:28:30 (EST)
From: Laura
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Knowledge is a handicap
Message:
I went to the doctor today, complaining of an earache. The doc gave me a hearing test which involved putting on headphones. My head filled with soft but very loud music and a lot of crickets. It was difficult hearing the little variations of tone coming from the testing machine because the music was so loud. It made me laugh. There were times when the inside of my head was silent, and I would practically puncture my eardrums trying to hear music. But today, when I needed it silent, look what happens. Must be lila or something. Ha Ha!

And this morning someone from my office asked me 'How are you doing, etc.' She then asked me if I ever meditated, because she thinks it's so great. People are waking up to meditation NOW and want to introduce ME to this stuff. S c r e a m . . . .
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 15:53:52 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Laura
Subject: Knowledge is a handicap
Message:
Laura: Great to hear you on the forum again. Hey, if you can't hear the test, then you are suffering a handicap, no doubt.

- As far as the meditation goes, hang up a sign:

MEDIATATION

Been There
Done That
Useless

The end!
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 18:18:09 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Laura
Subject: Self-inflicted tintinitus
Message:
Maybe we have taught our brains to experience tintinitus (I think this is correct)--a ringing in the ears that is uncontrollable. It might be likened to flashbacks from acid.

Whenever my internal telephone goes off, I just tell it to stop--and it does!

Who was the devotee that MJ used to talk about. Apparently, she was so intoxicated with music that she ran into the street naked. Of course, the neighbours all knew she was crazy. Remember when he used to tell us to be a spontaneous fool for him. THERE IS NO SHAME IN BEING A FOOL FOR THE LORD!
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 18:45:36 (EST)
From: Laura
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Self-inflicted tintinitus
Message:
Hi Gail: No, it's not tinitus (sp?). It really is lovely music. I just don't want to hear it when I don't want to hear it, not yet anyway. I used to love it that I could hear it all the time, it's great background for a noisy world.

I need to disassociate it from BM first, and that's hard to do. But I hear it so much of the time. The word too, not the breath, but the vibration under the breath, I feel it a lot but it's hard not to think it's coming from BM (shudder). Thanks for replying.
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 18:42:09 (EST)
From: Laura
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Knowledge is a handicap
Message:
Hi Mike, Even though I don't post much, I read a lot of what is said here. I'm around, just soaking it all in. Nice to hear from you too.

I like the music, I just don't want to concentrate on it because I associate it with you know who. Problem is, it's here all the time. I'm amazed that other people don't hear it. Music was one of my favorites and either I'm imagining it or some channel is open somewhere and I'm on the receiving end. It's just that it doesn't turn off automatically for hearing tests! (BTW, nothing wrong with my hearing at all!)
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 20:49:18 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Laura
Subject: Unravelling the deception
Message:
Interesting posts Laura. After 26 years I have a problem with meditation. You see, I have a brain disease called Myalgic Encephelomyalitis which causes inflammation of the brain and nervous system amongst other things such as exhaustion etc. We call it ME but some people in America call it chronic fatigue syndrome, I think.

The reason I mention this is not to get sympathy but to illustrate the limitations of meditation and also to dispel some false ideas and assumptions which Maharaji and others have preached concerning meditation.

You see now, if I meditate on any of the techniques I get terrible pains in my head due to the disturbed brain chemistry. Sometimes I get into the third technique and it's very peaceful and relaxing but when I come out of meditation I can hardly stand up and lose my balance and am walking around like a drunk and feel like I've been hit on the head with a hammer. And this effect can last for several days with terrible pains in my head as my brain chemistry reorganises itself. SO I don't make a point of meditating too much because of this and I now see the whole thing in a different light. Meditation is not something divine or something to cure all ills. In my case it MAKES me ill since this disease has become more acute in my brain. Many people are programmed to believe that they are being 'good' by meditating. Meditation is taught to be a virtue by Maharaji's cult. This is embedded into most premies and even us ex-premies still have this embedded in us.

I am saying that there is nothing good or bad about meditation. There is nothing virtuous about meditating and likewise, nothing unvirtuous about NOT meditating. It can take years before this realisation finally dawns, after being programmed by Maharaji. Practically everything his cult has hammered home is worse than useless to us. As individuals we have to do what suits us best and it really is ridiculous to have a cult based upon something as personal as experiences from meditation. Particularly when the cult leader doesn't know the first thing about it.

As regards to your music experience, yes I have at times heard it all the time. That has depended on how much attention I've put towards it. But you know a strange thing is, that once I was wrongly perscribed an antidepressant tablet for my head problem and when I took one of the tablets the music got very loud, louder than ever! So is the music connected to brain chemistry, I wonder? I think much of people's knowledge experiences are. The peace and relaxation I mentioned from the third technique is definitely due to a change in brain chemistry. That's why it ironically has such a devastating effect on me now, (as mentioned above). The only technique I can do without any serious side effects is the nectar but that may change if my ME complaint gets any worse. And I have an aromatherapist friend who has given me a very good physiological explaination of why doing the nectar technique can get you high. I will post it hear or email it to you if you want.

ANyway, all of the above can go some way to unravelling the deception about 'knowledge'. It has nothing to do with Maharaji and a good doctor is more likely to understand meditation far more than Maharaji ever will.
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 02:38:43 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Laura
Subject: Knowledge is a handicap
Message:
Hi Laura,
I always enjoyed the music meditation best, too! I stopped practicing a long time ago, but I have noticed that when I am very focused, I hear what was called 'music;' this also happens when I am deep in prayer, which really surprised me at first. I agree, it is not the same as tinitus. I remember having what passed for theological arguments with premies regarding the music when I was in the Guru Club; I remember coming home from a show at Winterland and the premies saying, 'alright! We'll really hear the music tonight!' I would ask, 'how can you hear the music when your ears are ringing like this?' Turned out that they thought that the tinitus WAS the music!!
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 09:19:09 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Knowledge is a handicap
Message:
I liked the 'music', too. Lately though, I've come to view the meditation as being a false security blanket. I found reassurance in that constant little ringing in my ear. It was nice to know that there was always a constant that I carried around with me in the middle of a chaotic and unpredictable world. I felt the same way about the 'light', too. Everytime I closed my eyes, there it was, like a faithful old friend. Outside of the 'loyalty' of the experience though, I never got much out of it as far as feeling better about things. In fact, I've come to recognize that my feelings have nothing to do with meditation. In fact, relying on meditation to feel better only got in the way of that goal. By associating good feelings with meditation, I would set myself up for diappointment, which is usually what happenned.

I'm baffled at how long I held onto something, M & K, for as long as I did, when in truth, both only got in the way of me feeling good about life. I know low self-esteem plays a big part in it, but I haven't figured out the rest of it. Oh, well, in time, I guess.
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 09:38:16 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Knowledge is a handicap
Message:
Jerry,

If you're on-line now would you email me?

Thanks,

Jim

heller@bc1.com
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 05:58:54 (EST)
From: Sir Ex-Cheddar
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji is a fridge freak
Message:
There's something wierd happening down at the divine residence. A very strange picture is appearing. Mr Ex told us before that Maharaji keeps his cigarettes in the fridge and now DV the Brave who pinched Maharaji's mala, tells us he kept it in the fridge too.

So what's with this fridge thing eh? As you know, I once had the divine service of guarding Maharaji's fridge once although that time, it just contained some cheddar cheese. But PAM told me that it was most important that NOBODY touched the fridge and it was onlt when the Lord of the universe failed to come and give me his adjacent to the fridge darshan that I dared to open it.

SOmeone elswhere said something about Maharaji being a bit obsessive about germs and not touching door handles so could it be that this fear of germs is the reason why he keeps everything in the fridge? Perhaps that mysterious space in the middle of the divine residence plan is actually a giant fridge in which he keeps his 'special' premies nice and cool and germ free. The mind boggles.
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 09:17:10 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Sir Ex-Cheddar
Subject: Maharaji is a germ freak
Message:
You've got that right, Sir Cheddar. Anne said that one of her most embarrassing moments was when she was not quick enough to open a door for MJ. He had to open it himself and was disgusted. He has an aversion to touching things others have touched (Howard Hughes Syndrome).
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 09:31:53 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Maharaji is a germ freak
Message:
I've also heard from premies preparing his 'residence' in
hotels, that they use to spend hours disinfecting EVERYTHING with
alcoohol.
What he ignores is that alcoohol is not such a great disinfectant anymore, there are much better stuff for that purpose, but he
also fears chemicals ..... beside Cognac of course.
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 14:25:22 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: Maharaji is a germ freak
Message:
Maybe that's why he has premies doing service oops, I mean participation, guardning doors no one cares about.
He is trying to save us from touching the handles and getting germs! What a guy.
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 09:28:32 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Sir Ex-Cheddar
Subject: Maharaji is a fridge freak
Message:
I'm not such a great psychologist,
but the guy has a lot of paranoid symptoms, IMO.

Quite usual for that kind of person as it looks like,
and according to 'The Guru Papers'.
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 12:48:13 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Maharaji is a fridge freak
Message:
JM: This may also be attributed to where he came from (e.g. India). I've seen this behavior before in those that come from countries whose 'health standards' are somewhat lower. They become obsessed with cleanliness and such, once they learn how diseases are really transmitted. It's kind of an over-reaction to the newly-gained knowledge. Funny thing though, in M's case, wasn't he supposed to 'know' everything already? It's kind of weird when the LARD is afraid of his own 'creation' isn't it?
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:00:12 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Maharaji is a fridge freak
Message:
Some bugs might not like him!

I still think that in his case it's really obsessive.
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:47:36 (EST)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Maharaji is a fridge freak
Message:
Maharaji himself mentioned at a large satsang event in the late 70's or early 80's that everytime he opens an envelope he can't help thinking with a shudder how the sender licked the envelope. Yuckie. Afterward, we were careful to seal an envelope addressed to him with tap or bottled water.
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:56:49 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Maharaji is a fridge freak
Message:
I'm surprised he let us touch our non-sterile and oh-so-germy lips to his lotus feet. Poor Maharaji, trudging forth around the world, saving millions daily, despite the fact that he has this phobia. Oh the strain it must be to him! Maybe he should encase himself in a bubble like the Bubble Boy on the Seinfield episode!
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:58:09 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Maharaji is a fridge freak
Message:
Helen: I guess you never got to see his feet get doused with disinfectants, both before and after.
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 16:30:53 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Helen
Subject: Maharaji is a fridge freak
Message:
Dear Helen,
When I kissed the lotus tootsies they had brand new white socks, germ barriers. When I saw the LOTU video I noticed he didn't have socks on. This goes along with what has been said here. Once he knew about germs he got the socks!
Oprha is just telling this woman to 'disconnect from your mind!'. That show has certainly gotten weird.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 16:58:26 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Oh, no...
Message:
Robyn: Tell me, please tell me that Oprah isn't a premie..... I can't stands no more! ... he he he ;-)
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:20:14 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Mike
Subject: Oh, no...
Message:
Dear Mike,
If she is she aint telling no one! I guess more then just BM see the mind as a negative!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 23:04:22 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Maharaji is a fridge freak
Message:
Oprah is saying that? I thought she was into 'making the connection', ie, harnessing the will to get strong. Although I'm one of those crazy people who thought she looked beautiful when she was plump, too. She has such influence over people it is astonishing. I like Oprah although I don't get to watch it more than once a yr. Have you seen Beloved (the movie)? I have heard she is very good in it.
Love,
Helen
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:27:32 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Helen
Subject: Maharaji is a fridge freak
Message:
Dear Helen,
The last movie I saw in a theater was Grumpier Old Men. No I haven't seen Beloved but my daughter is going to mail me her copy and I will rent it when it comes out for sure.
I often catch part of her show but not just sitting and watching so I can't really say much on it but it seems she has gone over board a bit. She is trying I am sure, to help people but it just all seems a bit much. Like a Christian Revival meeting, see Brainwashed in a thread below!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:52:59 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Maharaji is a fridge freak
Message:
Grumpy Old Men was a hoot and a half! The outakes at the end were hilarious.
I hope Oprah doesn't lead people into a lot of new agey stuff; that's the last thing we need, don't you think?. I have been so excited about how she (Oprah) has gotten so many people reading. Someone very literary like Toni Morrison didn't stand much of a chance of selling a million copies of a book, but when Oprah recommended her the booksales went through the roof. Some of the books she recommends are not so hot, though, but I applaud her for her efforts.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 13:43:32 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Helen
Subject: Helen, off topic
Message:
Dear Helen,
My daughter bought me Grumpy Old Men because I rented it so many times and that is not something I usually do.
I do think Oprah is getting into new age stuff. I haven't seen enough of it to think of it as good or bad new age stuff I just get this feeling from what I have seen that it is a bit over board. Oh well.
Nice, Chatting with you Helen.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:14:09 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Robyn, off topic
Message:
Well Oprah is a smart woman. But you know we're all smart too, and we got schnookered into some bad juju, no?
Love,
Helen
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 22:09:41 (EST)
From: RT
Email: mm
To: Sir Ex-Cheddar
Subject: Magnet Poetry for Whirlpool
Message:
The LARD of the Fridgeair has opened up this day...
The LARD of the Residence has opened up this day...
The LARD of the Fridgeair has opened up this day...
And he's come to turn on the light
And he's come to wear latex glove
And he's come to show us the way..
to his tobacco!

RT who will not touch this song again. Ever.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 16:03:31 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: RT
Subject: JSCA! Well done, RT. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 20:40:29 (EST)
From: RT
Email: mmmmmmmm
To: Gail
Subject: JSCA! Well done, RT. (nt)
Message:
AUGGH I don't know what (nt) means?! Help me..
RT the befuddled
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 02:20:10 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne
Email: mbvictoria@hotmai.com
To: Jim (mainly)
Subject: Jim......more disingenuousness
Message:
Jim in response to your ' I disagree' post below...

Jim.,

Obviously I am aware that I am not well liked here, most of the responses that I get make that abundantly clear. The reason for this is that I challenge a lot of what is said here. I have no real quarrel with you or anyone else here on a personal level and I see a lot of qualities and honesty in the people who contribute here. The points I have generally tried to make are not designed to be personally insulting or hurtful, although at times I have been quite angry and responded in that way to some posts. Right from the start I have made no bones about the fact that I have no grudges about M because there's basically nothing that he has done to me that has caused immense pain in my life. However, I have never disguised or ignored the fact that other people may have been hurt.

To answer your specific points…..

If I remember right (and if I'm wrong, forgive me. It won't be the first time), but if I remember right you were 'concerned' that inaccurate or even illegal (i.e. defamatory) accusations could both tarnish the general reputation of this page and even expose it/Brian/me/some of us to legal action. Did I get that right?

Yes, you got that right.

No, your motivation was to intimidate us behind a mask of congeniality. Kind of like the hypocritical neighbour who breathlessly tells you the bad gossip that's circulating about you under the guise of caring communication. She pretends to want you arm you with information when, really, she just wants to hurt you. Know the type?

No, you got that wrong. I'm into challenge, not intimidation. You tell me what power I have to be able to intimidate you - absolutely none. I merely pointed out the possible dangers of what you were saying and legal consequences. JW, yourself and others acknowledged the validity of what I said. At that time, I also outlined a bit about myself and copped the obligatory abuse (which I must say quite hurt and shocked ). My advice was not particularly caring, but a simple comment on the situation the way I saw it, that the people you named and slandered could be innocently hurt and as a result the forum's integrity compromised.

Did you read the suggestion and immediately think to yourself, 'Oh, that would be horrible! What if the guy's family was hurt by it? I'd better talk with these ex's about that before they do something hasty and unnecessarily hurt someone.'? Was that your sentiment? Somehow I doubt it.

Yes, Jim, in fact I had this thought almost identical to the way you've phrased it. I am concerned about tragedies like suicide, and the fact that it has occurred in M's 'world' does not diminish this concern. Your doubt about my sentiments is your business and from the tone your posting , I don't expect to get the benefit of that doubt!

Mel, if you really cared a fig about Dave's family, for example, you'd agree that the best thing they could ever get from any of us (you, me, Maharaji and all the other sad characters of this tragicomedy that took their son's life) would be an apology from Maharaji…..

No disagreement from me on this one, Jim

You can't communicate with Dave but you can with Maharaji. Do something if you care so much.

In my opinion, M closed down the Ashrams because of this kind of craziness that was beginning to germinate there. He may well have felt the responsibility to take this kind of action seeing as he was in control. Apologies are admittedly very important, especially to the loved ones of the deceased, but action is also important to ensure these situations don't occur again. Although M may be remiss in the former, he is certainly not in the latter. If M is reading these words, then it is his business as to what he does regarding apologies.

Look, Jim and others, M has basically dismantled all the rubbish associated with Divinity, renunciation and ashrams, and all the associated crap of yesteryear. There are still premies around who live in that era in their heads, and no doubt, you could say that these people are still a victim of the 'cult' conditioning, as are ex-premies in reaction to those times. I don't believe that I am a 'cult apologist', because I have never believed in that stuff, but I am pro K, and have no problem supporting M in his efforts to promote it, but that's where the deal ends. There's no 'direction' about my life, no 'agya', complete freedom to live (even surf the Net) as I please and other premies are living this way to. Even the choice to practice is personal and I certainly have not received any Emails from M or EV telling me to stop posting here. I am as free in my life as anybody else around me, and that's the fact of the matter, not 'mind edited' cult think.
No wonder I'm not well liked here, I tell it exactly how it is for me, and it's a challenge for you!

I have no difficulty with what you say about M (even though some of it, I suspect, is simply hearsay and of dubious accuracy), he's a public figure and as such is entitled to be challenged, but I think the derision and abuse directed at premies in itself could be quite dangerous. How would you guys feel if some of the abuse that you directed at more sensitive premies catalysed a suicide and that could be proven and directly attributed some callous or abusive comment made by someone here? I don't believe that this is beyond the realms of possibility ? Think about it?.

Mel
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 08:12:35 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Jim......more disingenuousness
Message:
I think the derision and abuse directed at premies in itself could be quite dangerous. How would you guys feel if some of the abuse that you directed at more sensitive premies catalysed a suicide and that could be proven and directly attributed some callous or abusive comment made by someone here? I don't believe that this is beyond the realms of possibility? Think about it?

There's certainly no lack of disrespect shown here at times towards people still involved in the cult. Is that fair? Probably not. It's understandable though. Many of the ex-premies who use this forum to sort through the garbage pile of beliefs that they left with, have seen their previous 'support systems' collapse on them when they tossed off the divinity lie. Premies who had been there to urge video attendance now stayed away to keep from catching some horrible thought-virus, or only offered support for 'correct' behavior. (Correct being what Maharaji wants.) This doesn't get much respect here. Go figure.

Those who openly post on the internet without his blessing are the rare exceptions. But most of them do so only under pseudonyms, where they can self-deceive as shining beacons of cult-free behavior. Keith Simons, who posted openly under his own name after exhausting every other possible name, was going to stand and demand an accounting from Maharaji. Didn't happen. Again, go figure that lack of respect shown by ex's here.

What are you going to do differently, Mel Bourne? I'm listening, but not exactly hopping in excitement. You've got a lot of ideas about what should/shouldn't happen here. Be nicer to premies, don't say anything that The Little Fraud can sue over, etc. What suggestions have you posted to Premie Island? Are they enthused about them. Did you post under your real name? Did they approve of you personally and not delete your post?

The idea that someone too afraid to think for themself, that instead defers to Maharaji, that this person would read something here that would so hurt their feelings that they would kill themself rather than face another video?? Rather than face standing in line to kiss Maharaji's feet??

It wouldn't be the responsibility of those who point out the truth - however painful to have to face - but of those like Maharaji who encourage the self-deceptions that pad his pockets.
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 09:05:29 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Dear Mel: You are joking?
Message:
Mel, you said:

M has basically dismantled all the rubbish associated with Divinity, renunciation and ashrams, and all the associated crap of yesteryear. There are still premies around who live in that era in their heads, and no doubt, you could say that these people are still a victim of the 'cult' conditioning, as are ex-premies in reaction to those times. I don't believe that I am a 'cult apologist', because I have never believed in that stuff, but I am pro K, and have no problem supporting M in his efforts to promote it.
______________________________

If MJ has dismantled all the rubbish associated with his divinity, why does he allow premies like RT to take a week's vacation and come to help him build his house for free. Does Depok Chopra have folks over for free to do work for him?

Why is Anne Johnston washing his clothes and removing lint from his towels for a meagre wage? Why does she still refer to him as her Lord? Why do people who live at his residence or close by continue to travel the world to see him at every possible event if he is not divine to them (surely he could tell them 'I'm not the Lord' over a cup of coffee, couldn't he?).

How about poor schmucks like me? Almost everyone here in London, Ontario supports MJ on a monthly basis, supports local videos, and goes to watch them two or three times a week. If his message is the same (as he always likes to say), and he's not divine, why all the driving effort?

You are not being completely truthful, Mel. Why do you have to support him. If he is not divine, then his K is not divine and his words are not divine. Since you like K so much, why not practice in the comfort of your own home and be done with it? You could just show others the techniques so that they can also benefit. WHY ARE YOU STILL STUCK IN THIS CULT TRIP--YOU BELIEVE HE IS THE LORD, AND HIS WORDS AND K ARE SACRED! It's a damned shame given your intellect--what a waste. I hope you see the light soon.
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 09:50:04 (EST)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Mel Boring
Subject: Mel Boring's dire warnings
Message:
Thank you Mel for all your concern:

First you alerted us to the possibility of a lawsuit for libeling your beloved Goober.

Then you pointed out the impropiety of the proposed In Memorium section for the website.

Now you're warning us that we could be driving premies to suicide because of the ''derision and abuse'' they receive here.

Mel, I thought you guys were protected by the holy lotus feet?

You may be right, though, I almost did my self in after Jim called me a closet friend of Arthur Chapelle. But I just beat my wife instead... Jim, you really know how to hurt a guy, you closet premie you. I bet you still have your baragon under your bed.
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 09:52:44 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Jim......more disingenuousness
Message:
Look, Jim and others, M has basically dismantled all the rubbish associated with Divinity, renunciation and ashrams, and all the associated crap of yesteryear.

Mel, there were human lives involved with all this associated crap of yesteryear. It wasn't as if M just discarded a bunch of useless, inanimate objects. He threw his most devoted servants in the street with no concern for their well-being. Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but a lot of these people had nowhere to go, with no apparent means of supporting themselves when the ashrams were closed. I'd say that M was pretty crude, to put it nicely, in his modifying the demands for what makes the perfect devotee.

When you make statements such as associated crap, it's difficult to believe that you have any genuine concern for anything but M's credibility, which has been seriously damaged, rightfully so, by this website.
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 11:07:52 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Jim......more disingenuousness
Message:
I think it's wrong to ridicule premies if they are just going about their business. In my case, the few premies I have ridiculed, namely Red Heels and Mili and a few others; well they were attacking me at the time. Mili took his ridicule humourously. The image of him walking in the Croation mountains in stockings and suspenders was too ridiculous to get too offended over.

However, the problem with some premies such as Red Heels, is that they cannot see how arrogant they are being. Such behavior deserves some sort of counter-attack. But myself personally, I think it's bad form to attack someone without them having attacked me or others, first. You have not attacked me and while I disagree with some of what you say, I don't wish to deride or ridicule you or call you names or anything.
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 17:19:10 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: establishing credibility
Message:
Mel,

It's fun answering your posts. You're intelligent enough to string sentences together properly, yet your points are so thin I get a real rush of self-love responding. I don't know how you see it, but I get goosebumps thinking about how honest and consistent I am compared to you. 'Hey, I must be an alright kind of guy!' I keep thinking. 'At least I'm straightforward.' While that kind of self-righteousness is always enjoyable it could damage my character in the long run. I'll have to watch out for that. Remind me, will you please, if we're still talking in, say, five years or so.

No, you got that wrong. I'm into challenge, not intimidation. You tell me what power I have to be able to intimidate you - absolutely none. I merely pointed out the possible dangers of what you were saying and legal consequences. JW, yourself and others acknowledged the validity of what I said. At that time, I also outlined a bit about myself and copped the obligatory abuse (which I must say quite hurt and shocked ). My advice was not particularly caring, but a simple comment on the situation the way I saw it, that the people you named and slandered could be innocently hurt and as a result the forum's integrity compromised.

Being 'into' challenge does not preclude being into other things including, in this instance, intimidation. No, you weren't trying to intimidate by threatening anything that you yourself might do. Rather, you were trying to intimidate us by threatening action others might take. Oxford defines 'intimidate' as frighten or overawe, especially to subdue or influence.' I say the word fits your whole pitch about lawsuits to a 't'. Whatever.
You say you 'merely pointed out' the possible consequences. That's just a way of avoiding any discussion about your motive. Can't you see that? We know what you pointed out. There's no argument there. The question, Mel, is 'why?'. Why did you do that? The answer's obvious. Please don't quibble. It just erodes whatever credibility you've got and hurts your chances of gaining more.

You say your advice wasn't 'particularly caring'. I'm with you there, Mel, but please, tell me, why did you offer it? Again, telling me that you were 'merely' doing this or that won't cut it. I'm asking you why? Surely you care about something here or you wouldn't bother posting. Is it the 'integrity of the forum'? Is that what you're willing to weather the slings and arrows for? Somehow I doubt it. Level with us, Mel. What's YOUR agenda?

Yes, Jim, in fact I had this thought almost identical to the way you've phrased it. I am concerned about tragedies like suicide, and the fact that it has occurred in M's 'world' does not diminish this concern. Your doubt about my sentiments is your business and from the tone your posting , I don't expect to get the benefit of that doubt!

***

In my opinion, M closed down the Ashrams because of this kind of craziness that was beginning to germinate there. He may well have felt the responsibility to take this kind of action seeing as he was in control. Apologies are admittedly very important, especially to the loved ones of the deceased, but action is also important to ensure these situations don't occur again. Although M may be remiss in the former, he is certainly not in the latter. If M is reading these words, then it is his business as to what he does regarding apologies.



Mel, let's assume you're right, that Maharaji closed down the ashrams to protect his premies. (HA HA HA HA HA). Okay, forget about that. Let's just talk about the apology. You say 'M may be remiss' in not apologizing to the families of people like Dave. 'May be', Mel? You're not sure about that? Come on, bright guy, this isn't rocket science. A guy lives in M's ashram and buckles under the pressure and kills himself. Should M apologize or not? Here, if it's really that hard to get your mind around this thorniest of issues, think of it this way. In a freak alternative universe, M travels coach. He's on a plane -- first class, of course -- and who does he find himself sitting next to but Mrs. Weiner. Go ahead, fill in the blanks.

But what's with your final sentence in that paragraph, the one about it being M's business as to what he does in terms of apologies? Again, Mel, you hide behind triteness. Of course, it's M's business. The question is, 'should he?' Unless you're now claiming that you are not entitled to judge or comment on Maharaji's actions, go ahead and judge. Well?

As for being a cult apologist, Mel, you are exactly that. There is no question about it. See, Maharaji might not have the gumption to apologize for anything but, to the extent you can do so without tarnishing his name, you're trying to do just that. What does an apologist do after all? Damage control, right? Admit the undeniable but do all you can to distant the facts in time and space and, most importantly, to shield the cult leader from criticism himself. Rather than blame Maharaji for all that 'rubbish' or 'crap' you're so willing to concede took place, try to give him credit for 'getting rid of it all'. Ignore how it got there in the first place. Ignore M's role in maintaing or benefitting from all that 'rubbish' or 'crap' and,instead, just try to give him a big hero's medal for finally letting it go.

Mel, what the fuck do you think an apologist looks like??? Not just some idiot like steven who can't spell or think beyond a grade two level. An apologist looks like you, bud.

Here's another example. You're so quick to talk about how free your life is of any controls by M. Hence, you argue, no cult. Mel, do you realize who you're talking to here? Any idea how many combined years of ashram experience alone you're talking to on this page? Your own current experience practising Knowledge Lite is hardly of interest to me, although someone here might want to hear about it. Mel, I'm perfectly content to talk about the past. You, on the other hand, can't justify the past so you try to dismiss it as quickly as you can. 'Maharaji's cleaned things up so let's move on, shall we?' Sorry, Mel, it doesn't work that way.

Even your unconvincing demonstration of independent thinking is a farce, Mel. When you say you have no difficulty with us challenging Maharaji, being that he's a public figure and all, I've got one simple response: I dare you to repeat that and sign your real name to it. Until you do so, your anonymous support ain't worth the bitsy weenie bandwidth it rode in on.

Your final 'concern', this time for premies who might be driving to suicide by our own comments is about the stupidest and funniest thing I've heard here. Yes, you've said it before. I'm enjoying it this time like it was the first, however. Please, let me savour the moment. Ah!

Mel, that whole idea is so ludicrous I won't even bother responding to it. It's just that funny.

So, Mel, I'd have to say that, once again, you come across as a complete phony. You deserve all the derision you've ever received here and probably more. If you really want some respect you're going to have to earn it. Come out from behind your pseudonym and repeat the small point you made above that Maharaji shoudl be accountable to his former followers. Come on, Mel, let's see you get real for a change.
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 21:57:04 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Maharaji can't claim the same
Message:
How would you guys feel if some of the abuse that you directed at more sensitive premies catalysed a suicide and that could be proven and directly attributed some callous or abusive comment made by someone here?

Mel,

I take issue with your notion that a comment by someone here would cause a suicide. If someone killed themself due to mere words that someone here (a virtual person on a computer screen somewhere far, far away) typed, I would conclude that this sensitive premie was mentally ill to begin with. His suicide could not be completely attributed to one comment.

So why isn't Maharaji off of the hook for the sucides of his followers? Weren't they also in a fragile mental state? Yes! But how did they get that way? Hmmmmmm... We have answered this question at length here already. It could have to do with brainwashing, programming, lack of self esteem, or feelings of inadequacy due to cult involvment. It could be a feeling of abandonment/ betrayal when the ashrams closed and the 'Lord' became the 'ex-Lord'.

It could be due to the fact that in the 70's DLM claimed knowledge to be 'the answer'-a cure all for the ailments of life. This was a dangerous and empty promise for those who were mentally ill and needed REAL medical or psychological help.

No one here at ex-premie.org has made any promises to cure all ailments. No one here is anyone's master. No one has assumed responsibility for the happiness or mental well being of followers. No one here has ever been the Lord of the Universe.

You can't say the same thing for Maharaji.
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 06:11:36 (EST)
From: Sir Ex-Cheddar
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: VP
Subject: Maharaji can't claim the same
Message:
Very perceptive of you VP particularly since you've never received the divine knowledge of god (lower case intended). I do now hereby grant you the title of VP the Wise. Oh yes, I'm full of granting titles today.
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 22:48:32 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Sir Ex-Cheddar
Subject: Always wanted a title
Message:
Thanks, Sir. I always wanted to have a title and I like that one (don't know that it always applies...shhhhhh! I won't tell if you don't!)
VP the wise
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 23:04:59 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Mel, Really, Think About It
Message:
In my opinion, M closed down the Ashrams because of this kind of craziness that was beginning to germinate there.

Well, in the case of Dave, I think he was about 10 years late. Really, Mel, the ashrams were crazy, abusive and damaging to people at least a decade before they were finally closed in 1983. And, according to KK who was working closely with M at the time, he closed the ashrams because he began to see them as a financial liability, not because he was concerned about the premies. He never HAD any concern about he premies, beyond what they could do for him. The ashrams just weren't paying off financially anymore, so he threw them (the residents) all out on their asses.

M has basically dismantled all the rubbish associated with Divinity, renunciation and ashrams, and all the associated crap of yesteryear.

I guess this just depends on what you mean by 'associated crap' (with his divinity). He is still doing darshan, and if that isn't associated with his divnity, I don't know what is.

Mel, I think what I and others have trouble understanding about you is your agreement, on the one hand, that Maharaji screwed up in the past and that it messed up a lot of people (maybe not you, but others) and that he has never had the integrity, courage, honesty or maturity to even admit that happened, let alone take any responsiblity for it. You agree with that, but then say you still support Mahraraji. Frankly, I find it inconceivable, based on my own value system and that of most people I respect, that you would do that and not be suffering from multiple personality disorder.
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:43:54 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Thanks for that post (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 17:33:11 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Financial liability
Message:
JW: I think you are hitting it right straight on! I think, if we go a level deeper, it's even more apparent why they were closed. The whole premie-house and ashram concept wasn't lucrative enough. He could get some really bad press (if not sued) for the misdeeds of ashram premies and I'm sure that a case could be made for the premie-houses as well. The potential cost vs. profit ledger just didn't have the correct ratio for him. They weren't generating enough dollars to be worth the risks.

In fact, I'll take it that step further: I don't think he does anything that doesn't produce financial gain. For example: he stops darshan (probably because people were leaving more flower 'offerings' than money). Why did he restart? Because the money was drying up from a whole segment of premies. To get the older (and likely wealthier, now) premies to start coming to programs, he had to meet their 'expectations.' Ta da, darshan magically reappears. The LOTU talk stops. Why? Because it was costing him the money that would come from those that wouldn't buy the LOTU stuff. One problem, though: How do you keep the older premies from drifting? Make it a shhhhhhh 'lila.' Now that the 'new' money is drying up (not many new premies) he's working on bringing the 'old' premies back (with their much larger wallets than in the ashram days) by using those famous 'key words,' a 'whole new level is opening up, it's just SO powerful, it's just NOW revealing itself' and on and on. And, of course, the requisite old-time, knockdown, darshan has returned in force, just as WE (the oldies) would expect it! This is way too simple, JW!

I've said it before: I don't think this is an accident. It's just too good to be pure chance. Too many coincidences! I'm sure that I haven't even picked the best of all of them, either.
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 00:06:35 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: GM's Business Plan! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 23:54:15 (EDT)
From: Laura
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 4,000? 6,000? 2.4 billion?
Message:
A message on premie web site states that they receive over 4,000 hits a day. The message further states that on October 6 they received over 6,000 hits. Not that I care, but that number seems absurd. Brian, do you know about this kind of thing, does it seem right to you?
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 01:59:42 (EDT)
From: satguroovy
Email: None
To: Laura
Subject: 144,000.and kieth
Message:
Keith is over there saying he is 'hungry for communion'

Thats the evil of the eastern thought,
makes you discount and dismiss this great life and
all the design features and pursue a fantasy dream
that maharji cant even accomplish.Get your communion
the way maraji gets it kieth, have a mistress named
instructor monica lewis and cheat on your wife.

prem rawat is skilled enough with a computer that he
could find a way to program his computer to 'hit'
the website continuously.
image over substance anyday.
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 06:53:38 (EST)
From: Sir D
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: satguroovy
Subject: 144,000.and kieth
Message:
Right on Bill. But did you see my comments below about the vast majority of ethnic Hindus here in England? Most of them are just into having their 'pujas' which are really for them just exuses to have a party and meet all their friends and eat too much and dance to some good music. Very different from the Hinduism that Maharaji and other 'masters' have preached.
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 11:25:53 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Sir D
Subject: Radhasoami Tradition
Message:
Sir D, I would recommend that anybody interested in Maharaji's religious background read up on the Radhasoami tradition. That's where M's roots really are, and he isn't even one of the big players, either. He's just one of the little guys. Here's a link to Jean-Michel's site:

Where Flubber Comes From
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 15:17:34 (EST)
From: Satguroovy
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Radhasoami Tradition
Message:
Halarious line Jerry, -where flubber comes from-
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 16:36:21 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Satguroovy
Subject: Radhasoami Tradition
Message:
Dear Bill and Jerry,
Yes, great line Jerry! :)
And Bill, I always loved satguroovy best, that is a classic. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 15:15:45 (EST)
From: satguroovy
Email: None
To: Sir D
Subject: Sir David
Message:
Yes I read your post below and I realized you are right.
Most folks arent really zealot oriented and want to
have fun.By the way Sir David, have you poked around
the various y2k sites?
Seems like a little trouble is coming our way.
Gary North is a long time extremist christian apoloptical
type so you have to avoid his commentary.
But the reports from the us government and utilities like
gas and telecommunications and rail and nuclear power
controls and water providers are not good to say the least.
Not to mention ship borne traffic.
Crucial for her majestys subjects!

You island bound types better be prepared to fish!
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 19:02:43 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: satguroovy
Subject: Rule Britania
Message:
Well Bill, Edgar Cayce predicted that Britain was going to be under the sea in 1998 but it hasn't happened yet. I've yet to hear a prediction which ever came true. But the Y2K problem is serious, I agree, mainly because of all the embedded chips which are in everything and about to stop working properly at midnight, Dec 31st 1999.

A very dangerous situation will be if a Russian made nuclear powerstation goes wonky due to the above. We've already suffered the fallout from Chernoble here and another one would turn our green and pleasant land a funny colour. These days my 6 & 7 year old daughters have got into collecting snails. Every night I have to make them put these poor creatures back in the garden where they belong. But perhaps it's a foretaste of what's to come if the supermarket shelves become empty in 2000.
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 19:07:33 (EST)
From: Pollyana
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Look on the bright side, David
Message:
Think of all the jobs that will be created replacing all those things that go poof at the stoke of midnight...
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 17:16:12 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Rule Britania -- Off Topic
Message:
Well, whatever you have to say about 'new labor,' the British government's agreement to arrest that mass-murderer Pinochet is a very courageous and appreciated action, something the US would probably never do, and Britain wouldn't have done it either if Thatcher was still around.

So, hooray for Tony Blair, and especially for that courageous Spanish judge!
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 21:10:42 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: JW
Subject: Good man, JW
Message:
It's 'New Labour' by the way. We have Dr Johnson to thank for that.
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Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 23:30:00 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Ya, but Castro is worse!
Message:
Nobody wants to prosecute him. He has killed a lot more people than Pinochet, n'est pas? They should be putting him on trial, too.
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 10:17:08 (EST)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Gail of-my-heart
Subject: Ya, but Castro is worse!
Message:
I wanted to mention they should have nabbed the Beard when he was in Spain, but I didn't want to start anything. I'm reserving my rancor for rawat apologists from now on.
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 11:55:49 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Ya, but Castro is worse!
Message:
Gail, I'm no fan of Castro, but for all his detractors, I don't think he has ever been accused of mass-murder, certainly not to the extent of Pinochet. [Although the CIA tried to murder Castro on numerous occasions.]
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 12:46:33 (EST)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Ya, but Castro is worse!
Message:
JW,

I'm shocked! You are well informed, but are unaware of the mass arrests and widespread executions by the Castro regime? Man, you have just insulted the hell out of the survivors and relatives of the victims of Castro's (ongoing) reign of terror.

We are talking of not thousands, but tens of thousands killed in Stalin-like purges of business people, academics, clergy and other ''politically incorrect'' Cubans.
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 19:02:43 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Ya, but Castro is worse!
Message:
They should be putting him on trial, too.

Maybe they should, but if Castro is such a pariah, why did your Prime Minister recently fly off to Havanna and shake hands with him, much to the consternation of Jessie Helms?
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 19:29:19 (EST)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Gail Ha ha
Subject: Ya, but Castro is worse!
Message:
Maybe they should, but if Castro is such a pariah, why did your Prime Minister recently fly off to Havanna (sic) and shake hands with him, much to the consternation of Jessie Helms?

Maybe because birds of a feather flock together?
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 11:59:21 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Good man, JW
Message:
It's 'New Labour' by the way.

I think that depends on where you sit. But no matter how it's spelled, I think I would have preferred 'Old Labor,' or 'Old Labour' over the new one. It would also be great if the USA HAD a party which actually represented workers, also whether it was 'Labor' or 'Labour.' Instead, we have two business parties, much to the detriment of ordinary working people.
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Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 19:59:13 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: We need the sugar? nt
Message:
Sweet ain't it.
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Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 00:50:11 (EST)
From: Sir D
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: JW
Subject: Good man, JW
Message:
Things evolve and change with the passage of time. Work is not like it used to be. People don't have jobs for life because industry has changed. It's less labour intensive. Up in Coventry which is our car city where I was raised, most people in the sixties worked either in the huge car factories or in the subsiduary industries. The car assembly line was very labour intensive. Now it's all done by robots and where a hundred men would put cars together all they need now is one man to oversee the robot assembly line.

Most industry has gone this way. ANd then there are the cheap foreign imports which put our cotton mills and coal miners out of business. So now there are no industries which employ whole populations for life. This has made the unions less powerful and our Labour Party was of course, founded and financed by the trade unions. The days of grandfather, father and son all going to work at the coal mine, foundry or car factory are all but gone. People now have short term contracts of employment and in a way, it's a tougher more stark reality which we've had to wake up to.

The trade unions did a fantastic job in their heyday back in the early part of this century but times do change and such mass power of workers in individual industries like coal, transport, and engineering etc are no longer applicable and did in fact, hamper industrial change which was much needed. And the politicians reflect the changes which are necessary. Governments change and the New Labour will have its day and become replaced by other bright sparks promising the earth. Politiians never fulfil their promises. I'm almost 46 now and that's one thing I have learned. But it's a fascinating circus to watch...
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 06:11:28 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Laura
Subject: 4,000? 6,000? 2.4 billion?
Message:
A message on premie web site states that they receive over 4,000 hits a day. The message further states that on October 6 they received over 6,000 hits. Not that I care, but that number seems absurd. Brian, do you know about this kind of thing, does it seem right to you?

Beats me. I loaded a couple thousand pages myself just looking for this counter you're talking about so that I could answer. All very boring pages, too, BTW. You owe me bigtime for that.

Any counter that they have there probably increments every time someone requests any page from their site, since there's really not a single page on that site that's interesting enough to ever want to see again, let alone count how many have suffered through it. You really do owe me bigtime for that, you know...
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Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 19:19:10 (EST)
From: Laura
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: What do I owe you?
Message:
Sorry Brian, I never said anything about a counter. I said 'a message.' The message is in the section called 'Around the Planet,' which is an informal news section (yeah right, ha ha ). An anonymous person, probably the webmaster, since they don't accept anonymous posts, titled their message 'Over 4,000 hits.' Sorry you wasted so much time on that.

And I agree, there's nothing on that site of any interest. And their forum is very boring. I pop over there to see if anyone I know from my past is writing in. I'd like to direct them over here.

Thanks for looking though.

Sincerely,
Laura
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