Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 27 | |
From: Oct 20, 1998 |
To: Nov 4, 1998 |
Page: 4 Of: 5 |
Mike -:- What is AGYA, exactly? -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 15:04:41 (EDT) __Helen -:- What is AGYA, exactly? -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 20:42:14 (EDT) __Jim -:- something for thicker yogurt? -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 20:54:56 (EDT) ____Mike -:- Your wish is... Grace -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 10:57:00 (EDT) __Wm -:- What is AGYA, exactly? -:- Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 01:56:06 (EDT) ____Jerry -:- What is AGYA, exactly? -:- Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 08:15:59 (EDT) ______Wm -:- What is AGYA, exactly? -:- Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 13:50:32 (EDT) ________Jerry -:- What is AGYA, exactly? -:- Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 15:26:17 (EDT) ____Gerry -:- Another premie muddle head -:- Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 12:17:00 (EDT) ______Wm -:- Another premie muddle head -:- Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 13:53:24 (EDT) ____Jim -:- What is AGYA, exactly? -:- Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 12:59:28 (EDT) ______Wm -:- What is AGYA, exactly? -:- Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 14:25:28 (EDT) ______Helen -:- Thanks Jim -:- Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 15:46:10 (EDT) ________Jim -:- Hey, its' like second nature -:- Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 17:47:59 (EDT) __________Gerry -:- That's because... -:- Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 18:16:25 (EDT) ____________Helen -:- Say it isn't so -:- Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 23:43:51 (EDT) __________Helen -:- O Guru Jim -:- Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 23:40:21 (EDT) ____________Jim -:- Put the lime in the coconut -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 13:15:26 (EST) ______________Helen -:- The lime is a lime is a lime -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 16:27:07 (EST) ________________Jim -:- The lime is a lime is a lime -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 17:35:14 (EST) __________________Helen -:- The lime is a lime is a lime -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 18:40:52 (EST) ____________________Helen -:- Addendum to Lime -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 21:39:17 (EST) ______________________VP -:- Addendum to Lime -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 22:36:52 (EST) ____Mike -:- What is AGYA, exactly? -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 10:52:29 (EST) ____Mike -:- To WM -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:18:31 (EST) ______Wm -:- To WM -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 21:41:24 (EST) ________Jim -:- To WM -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 22:02:56 (EST) ________Mike -:- Back atcha! -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 09:52:41 (EST) Jim -:- What do you think? -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 11:25:45 (EDT) __JW -:- What do you think? -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 13:24:52 (EDT) ____Helen -:- Chicken farmer -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 17:20:41 (EDT) __Jerry -:- What do you think? -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 13:56:12 (EDT) Brian -:- ***POOF*** Goodbye, Steven -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 23:27:49 (EDT) __Mike -:- ***POOF*** Goodbye, Steven -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 10:56:56 (EDT) Katie -:- Maharaji vs the Internet?? -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 23:25:49 (EDT) __Wm..'A Lurker' -:- Maharaji vs the Internet?? -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 00:04:37 (EDT) ____Sir D -:- Glad you finally got reponse -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 09:51:28 (EDT) __Dievine -:- Off subject -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 00:59:09 (EDT) ____Katie -:- Off subject - mattaponi -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 17:49:21 (EST) __jethro -:- Maharaji vs the Internet?? -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 02:42:09 (EDT) __Sir D -:- Maharaji vs the Internet?? -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 06:20:26 (EDT) __Selene -:- Maharaji vs the Internet?? -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 14:11:34 (EDT) __eb -:- Maharaji vs the Internet?? -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 14:51:41 (EDT) ____eb -:- And another thing... -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 14:55:43 (EDT) __VP -:- Maharaji vs the Internet?? -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 15:28:54 (EDT) __NI -:- Maharaji vs the Internet?? -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 07:56:56 (EDT) ____Mike -:- Abuse? -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:19:53 (EDT) ______NI -:- Abuse? -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 14:37:32 (EDT) ________Jim -:- Abuse? -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 14:49:37 (EDT) __________NI -:- Abuse? -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 22:02:08 (EDT) ____________Mike -:- Abuse? -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 11:03:25 (EST) ________Mike -:- Abuse? -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 15:02:12 (EDT) __________Mike -:- NI: An addendum, sorry -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 15:09:00 (EDT) ____________Gail -:- What about my veracity, NI? -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 16:37:14 (EDT) ______________Mike -:- What about my veracity, NI? -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 16:46:52 (EDT) ________________NI -:- Interesting mix-up! -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 22:08:07 (EDT) __________________Just some idiot -:- Interesting mix-up! -:- Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 00:11:44 (EDT) ____________________NI -:- Interesting mix-up! -:- Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 11:45:11 (EST) __________________Mike -:- Interesting mix-up! -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 09:43:45 (EST) ______________Mike -:- To Gail: -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 17:07:51 (EDT) ________________Gail -:- To Mike: Sorry Chief! nt -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 20:40:16 (EDT) __________________Mike -:- To Gail: No probs! nt -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 15:44:23 (EST) __________Mike -:- NI: An addendum, sorry -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 15:09:00 (EDT) ____________Mike -:- Now...what the heck is... -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 15:10:12 (EDT) Jim -:- Proof! -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 20:54:17 (EDT) __Sir Ated -:- Edge-u -Cation -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 21:13:38 (EDT) ____Jim -:- Ignorance - Katie or Brian -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 21:23:37 (EDT) ____Mickey the Pharisee -:- Edge-u -Cation -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 22:16:06 (EDT) ______Gerry -:- Edge-u -Cation -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 22:37:42 (EDT) ________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Edge-u -Cation -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 22:47:11 (EDT) __________Gerry -:- Edge-u -Cation -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 22:55:39 (EDT) ____________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Edge-u -Cation -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 23:02:06 (EDT) ______________Gerry -:- Edge-u -Cation -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 23:12:30 (EDT) ____________Mike -:- Frag? -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 11:06:26 (EDT) ____Sir David -:- Edge-u -Cation -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 22:33:08 (EDT) Gail -:- Anyone who went to Miami (May) -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:28:13 (EDT) __NI -:- Anyone who went to Miami (May) -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:31:47 (EDT) ____Mike -:- Anyone who went to Miami (May) -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:42:56 (EDT) ______Mike -:- I'm waiting, NI -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:45:34 (EDT) ________Mike -:- Still waiting... -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:24:55 (EDT) ____Selene -:- Anyone who went to Miami (May) -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:48:08 (EDT) ______NI -:- the best defense... -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:08:27 (EDT) ________JW -:- the best defense... -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:43:17 (EDT) __________NI -:- the best defense... -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 13:33:34 (EDT) __________VP -:- Also, NI -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 15:44:46 (EDT) ________Dievine -:- the best defense... -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 00:18:54 (EDT) __________NI -:- this is different... -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 13:43:41 (EDT) ____________Mike -:- this is different... -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 14:15:46 (EDT) __Mike -:- Anyone who went to Miami (May) -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:00:17 (EDT) __steven -:- your government -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:10:12 (EDT) ____Gerry -:- Overt threat -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:17:38 (EDT) ____Mike -:- Watch yourself Steven -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:22:09 (EDT) ______Selene -:- threats on forum -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:41:39 (EDT) ________Mike -:- threats on forum -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:57:22 (EDT) __________Sir Ated -:- counter Edit -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:26:09 (EDT) ____________Gerry -:- My guess is... -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:35:07 (EDT) ______________jethro -:- My guess is... -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:46:35 (EDT) ______________Selene -:- My guess is... -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:55:07 (EDT) ________________Mike -:- Off-topic -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 17:19:31 (EDT) __________________Selene -:- Off-topic -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 17:32:56 (EDT) ____________________Selene -:- Off-topic - ps -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 17:39:35 (EDT) ______________________Mike -:- Off-topic - ps -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 17:49:51 (EDT) ____________jethro -:- counter Edit -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:44:55 (EDT) ____________Mike -:- Oh well... -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:53:27 (EDT) ______________Frank -:- learning more -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:27:46 (EDT) ________________Mike -:- How many guys -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:37:24 (EDT) ________________Gerry -:- You jerk off -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:44:09 (EDT) __________________Gerry -:- That was MY line! -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:46:17 (EDT) ________Helen -:- By Thy Fruits You Shall Know -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:14:49 (EDT) __________Mike -:- By Thy Fruits You Shall Know -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:31:19 (EDT) ____________Helen -:- Hey Mike -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:42:10 (EDT) ______________Mike -:- Hey Helen! -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:51:56 (EDT) ________________Helen -:- Hey Mike -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:59:50 (EDT) __________________Selene -:- Irish -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:04:34 (EDT) __________________Mike -:- Yup...atsa my jobba -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:38:33 (EDT) ____________________Helen -:- Science and Nature -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 17:54:22 (EDT) ______________________Mike -:- Science and Nature -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 18:25:46 (EDT) ________________________Helen -:- Science and Nature -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 19:27:42 (EDT) __CD -:- I went to Miami (May) -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:39:37 (EDT) ____Gerry -:- I went to Miami (May) -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:58:56 (EDT) ______Lurker -:- I went to Miami (May) -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 20:37:27 (EDT) ____Mickey the Pharisee -:- I went to Miami (May) -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 20:52:52 (EDT) ______op -:- I went to Miami and others -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 04:23:43 (EDT) ________Jean-Michel -:- I went to Miami and others -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 10:30:13 (EDT) ________Mickey the Pharisee -:- I went to Miami and others -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 15:21:04 (EDT) __________Lurker -:- I went to Miami and others -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 16:53:25 (EDT) ____________Mickey the Pharisee -:- I went to Miami and others -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 17:37:57 (EDT) ______________Selene -:- I went to Miami and others -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 17:47:13 (EDT) ________________Lurker -:- I went to Miami and others -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 19:58:45 (EDT) __________________Jim -:- I went to Miami and others -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 20:05:44 (EDT) ____________________jethro -:- I went to Miami and others -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 02:55:01 (EDT) ______________________Jim -:- I was at the Ally Pally -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 14:37:27 (EDT) ________________________Gerry -:- I was at the Ally Pally,me too -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 16:15:05 (EDT) __________________________Jim -:- I was at the Ally Pally,me too -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 16:31:12 (EDT) ____________________________Gerry -:- I was at the Ally Pally,me too -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 16:55:13 (EDT) ____________________________CD -:- I was at the Ally Pally,me too -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:20:38 (EST) __________________Mike -:- I Didn't -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 20:09:32 (EDT) ______________jethro -:- I went to Miami and others -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 02:50:42 (EDT) ____Gail -:- To CD: I love you! Thanks -:- Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 18:53:35 (EST) ______CD -:- To CD: I love you! Thanks -:- Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:47:59 (EST) Jim -:- The Life of Ole -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 11:23:28 (EDT) __Mike -:- See? -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 11:37:11 (EDT) ____Jerry -:- See? -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:15:24 (EDT) __steven -:- The Life of Ole -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:02:43 (EDT) ____Gerry -:- You lunatic -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:33:39 (EDT) ______Gail -:- To Jim: Re: Steve Lunatic -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:14:12 (EDT) ________Jim -:- Nope, not there -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 20:19:01 (EDT) __________Selene -:- Nope, not there -:- Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 12:08:41 (EDT) __Gerry -:- A likely Story -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:27:06 (EDT) ____Selene -:- A likely Story -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:39:58 (EDT) ______Guru of Lies -:- A likely Story -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:53:59 (EDT) __eb -:- The Life of Ole -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:08:50 (EDT) ____Helen -:- The Life of Ole -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 17:43:33 (EDT) ______Selene -:- The Life of Ole -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 17:54:21 (EDT) ________Helen -:- The Life of Ole -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:32:46 (EDT) ________eb to Helen and Selene -:- That is just so Cosmic!!! NT -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:40:18 (EDT) __________Helen -:- That is just so Cosmic!!! NT -:- Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:45:30 (EDT) ____Selene -:- The Life of Ole -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:36:04 (EDT) __RR -:- Is this the Same Ole? -:- Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 10:07:25 (EDT) |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 15:04:41 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Everyone Subject: What is AGYA, exactly? Message: To Everyone (including premies): During the course of discussions concerning whether M “ordered” premies to stay off of the internet or not, a few thoughts came to my mind about what makes “agya” or an “order.” Does anyone here believe for one second that there is a real difference between M saying, “Stay off of the internet” and “boy, the internet is dumb?” Those two sentences may “sound” very different, but I propose that they are one and the same in meaning (to an active/true premie). I posted something below (to NI) that illustrates this point very clearly from my personal perspective. I’m reposting it here for comment because it was pretty buried down there (I edited it slightly for clarity): - You bring up a good point concerning 'orders.' Before I start, let me say that I was NOT at the Miami program in question. But, one thing that I DO understand is orders; how to give them, how to take them, how to obey them and exactly 'what' constitutes an order from 'higher authority.' Depending upon exactly 'who' is giving the order and 'how' that person's position is defined, a simple 'suggestion' can be (and should be) viewed as an order. It doesn't matter that the word, 'agya' or 'order' is used or not. Let me illustrate my point: If I suggested to one of my military subordinates that their 'shoes looked scuffed,' do you think they just blew-me-off and didn't get the 'hint' to shine their shoes? I don't think so! I rarely, and I do mean RARELY, had to tell anyone that it was an 'order.' My authority (perceived and real) to 'give' orders was enough justification for those that needed to follow my orders. - How much more effective is a 'suggestion' if it's coming from someone that you think is GOD, for heavens sake? He hasn't 'got' authority, he IS THE AUTHORITY.... Period. If he is your 'master,' don't you think that any 'suggestion' from him will be interpreted as an absolute ORDER by the masses? Come on, be honest on this one (not that you haven't before, BTW). If M speaks even a joke, premies listen, interpret and follow every single thing that he says, as if it were GOD speaking. (e.g. 'What will happen to me if I don't follow his 'suggestion?' 'Even if I don't particularly like the suggestion?') - That's my take on this whole thing. It's the 'perceived' authority that makes it an order, even if it is said to be a simple suggestion. Again, since I wasn't there, I can't say that he did or didn't 'order' you to stay off of the internet. But the 'perceived' impression of an order is as good as the word 'ORDER.' - I absolutely believe that Gail thought she had been given agya, whether the word 'agya' was used or not. Whether it was put in the language of an order (e.g. very strongly worded) or whether it was put as a suggestion (e.g. 'road to nowhere', derision, etc) doesn't matter in the slightest, considering WHO the suggestion was coming from. Personally, I think her account is totally accurate, because I've NEVER heard her say anything that wasn't so, but that is kind of immaterial when considered in this context, is it not? - As always IMHO Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 20:42:14 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: What is AGYA, exactly? Message: I agree, Mike. In fact, those subtle, more suggested orders can have more power to those hanging on Maharaji's every word, in an attempt to please him. Both the explicit agyas and the subtle suggestions start to get in a person's mind: 'What would Maharaji think about what I'm doing/thinking/eating/feeling right now?' The more I read this forum, the more the abusive parent metaphor fits. The hyper-vigilance (nervous system on red alert) that you see in abused children, you definitely see in cults. On another note all together, Dr. Laura Sclessinger (she can be very rigid and petty but on a lot of topics I reallly admire her gutsiness) said today, on her radio show, that EVIL has so much concrete power in this world because it has no LIMITS, no SHAME, no CONCERN for others, no CONSCIENCE. I'm going to log off because I am getting very upset. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 20:54:56 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mike Subject: something for thicker yogurt? Message: Point well-taken, Mike. Last I looked, the premies still haven't unionized or formed any formal process for collective bargaining with the Lard. His every wish is still their command. This agya question has another dimension as well and that is the myth surrounding the power of the guru's agya and the terrible consequences that befall one who doesn't follow it. Maharaji, his family, the mahatmas and big-shot premies spread the word repeatedly that Maharaji's agya had special power. Special power as well as special significance. The story was the usual sword and sorcerer stuff: if Maharaji asked you to do something he also gave you the 'grace' to pull it off (that's another term that's ripe for a little deconstruction). Once you've got the agya, coupled with a little grace, why, it's a done deal. (That is, unless either Mr. Mind or perhaps the greatest mystery of all, lila, screws things up). Another aspect of agya I remember is how instrumental it was for spiritual growth. The theory was rampant if somewhat vague. It was something like this: once a devotee got serious about trying to surrender to Maharaji, he needed agya. 'Maharaji, give me some agya!' was kind of how it went. Why? Because agya was the magic bullet guaranteed to ensure that your actions were not just service but high-octane service. The importance of THAT, of course, was that only by doing nothing but service could one truyl become a vehicle for the Lord and thus really merge with him. You know, like Raja Ji, maybe, or Durga Ji, or Bhole Ji, or Gurucharanand or Hanuman or someone like that. There was something a little confusing about this. Say you were an ashram premie simply going along, slaving for the Lard, etc. Obviously you were following agya. The whole trip was an implementation of agya. He ordered it, we did it. But then, say you got a call from HG and were told that Maharaji wanted you to leave whatever you were doing and get involved in this new special project. well, that was supposedly really good agya, the special stuff. If you got into that stuff, it was like getting into 150 proof. Does anyone remember this? What the HELL was THAT about? Finally, like in any good game of Snkaes and Ladders, there was the threat of disobeying this kind of direct agya. The spiritual consequences were unimaginable. Remember that? I do. Maharaji definitely imbued this agya thing with lots of mystique. When his family split he sent all the premies letters explaining that any direction from the dissidents was no longer agya. You could follow it all you want, but don't fool yourself -- it ain't agya! Also, when that crazy idiot shot up the girls in the Tallahasse ashram claiming that Maharaji had told him to in his dream, Maharaji issued another encyclical stating that there was no such thing as inner agya. Not that he hadn't heard of it before and wanted to dispell the myth in the interest of truth. But now, as it was a problem, he felt he better say something about it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 10:57:00 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jim Subject: Your wish is... Grace Message: Jim: Your wish is my pleasure. According to my thesaurus, there are many meanings for the word 'GRACE.' One, however was a real SHOCK! M DOES DISPLAY/RENDER GRACE.... oh my god! Here is the definition that I found (it's in your ms-word thesaurus, as well): Grace = Condescension (it's listed under 'kindness'??????) Condescension = disdain, haughtiness, airs, smugness. Does that describe M to a tee or what? How's that for deconstruction, eh?.... he he he ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 01:56:06 (EDT)
From: Wm Email: wm_r32@yahoo.com To: Mike Subject: What is AGYA, exactly? Message: To Everyone (including premies).....a few thoughts came to my mind about what makes 'agya' or an 'order.' Does anyone here believe for one second that there is a real difference between M saying, 'Stay off of the internet' and 'boy, the internet is dumb?' Those two sentences may 'sound' very different, but I propose that they are one and the same in meaning (to an active/true premie) When you say 'active/true' premie I know I don't fit your representation of what a premie is. I suppose a active/true premie would not have ever visited this site, certainly would have never read your post. I believe you are just trying to start an argument do you actually believe all premies, (or is it just the active/true premies) try to interpret and follow every word he says, even jokes, as the word of GOD, as you say 'Your Master'. He once said he didn't like avocados, it would be silly to use the same argument and infer he means not to eat avocados. I also believe what Gail said, not to insult her but its like one of those nice stories we liked to hear of how we came to Maharaji, just at the right moment. You can relate , bond, and share her excitement. The facts can be proved or not, in my mind it doesn't matter. Also IMHO Wm Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 08:15:59 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Wm Subject: What is AGYA, exactly? Message: He once said he didn't like avocados, it would be silly to use the same argument and infer he means not to eat avocados. Let me ask you, Wm, isn't there a desire to emulate the master, to be like him? There was a time, if I had heard M make this statement, about avocados, I would think less of them. I would shun them, just because the master doesn't like them. I wasn't very discerning as to what was wise about M and what was just his preference. I went to Maharaji seeking wisdom. I believed he had it. I believed that whatever he said was rooted in wisdom, including whatever remarks he might make about avocados. If he didn't like avocados, well then, it was because it's wise not to. Do you see what I'm driving at? Whatever the man said, I hung on EVERY word about EVERYTHING. If I had heard Maharaji even hint that he doesn't care for the internet, I would avoid it, thinking what a silly, useless invention of man, just like Maharaji says it is. Wouldn't you have felt the same way? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 13:50:32 (EDT)
From: Wm Email: wm_r32@yahoo.com To: Jerry Subject: What is AGYA, exactly? Message: Yes, there was a time when I believed in a lot of things that I don't now, I've changed over the years and maybe not necessarily all for the better. I guess the active/true premies try to interpret and follow every word he says, even jokes, as the word of GOD, 'The Master'. Yeah , right Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 15:26:17 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Wm Subject: What is AGYA, exactly? Message: I guess the active/true premies try to interpret and follow every word he says, even jokes, as the word of GOD, 'The Master'. Yeah , right Maybe today's active/true premie shouldn't interpret every word he says, as the word of God, but they still should regard him as 'The Master', and every word he speaks should be regarded in that vein. I'm sure Maharaji would agree, and as 'The Master', he should realize the impact of his words. Afterall, we all went to him for guidance, right? We came to the belief that he knew and we didn't, that we were weak and ignorant, and he was strong and wise. We LEANED on him. He was our crutch, and he encouraged us to use him as such. He still encourages it, only now, as 'The Master', not as God. And it sure took him long enough to come out and say he wasn't God, didn't it? He didn't fill premies in on that one until the mid eighties. Who knows, maybe someday he'll decide that he doesn't want people to think he's 'The Master', either. After all, as 'The Master', that is his perogative, isn't it? He can be anything he wants to be, even NOT 'The Master'. Do you know why he can do that? Because PREMIES say he can, otherwise he'd have NO power and be NOBODY, at all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 12:17:00 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Wm Subject: Another premie muddle head Message: I also believe what Gail said, not to insult her but its like one of those nice stories we liked to hear of how we came to Maharaji, just at the right moment. You can relate , bond, and share her excitement. The facts can be proved or not, in my mind it doesn't matter. Now what's this supposed to mean? Does anyone have a clue? Gail's not even in this thread. Has she told a ''nice story'' about how she came to be enslaved and duped by the BM cult? Am I missing something here? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 13:53:24 (EDT)
From: Wm Email: wm_r32@yahoo.com To: Gerry Subject: Another premie muddle head Message: I was responding to Mike's Post, you apparently missed. I absolutely believe that Gail thought she had been given agya, whether the word 'agya' was used or not. Whether it was put in the language of an order (e.g. very strongly worded) or whether it was put as a suggestion (e.g. 'road to nowhere', derision, etc) doesn't matter in the slightest, considering WHO the suggestion was coming from. Personally, I think her account is totally accurate, because I've NEVER heard her say anything that wasn't so, but that is kind of immaterial when considered in this context, is it not? I meant her story of how she became untangled or at least on her road to recovery from being enslaved and duped by the BM cult., maybe 'nice' is not a kind word coming from me Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 12:59:28 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Wm Subject: What is AGYA, exactly? Message: I believe you are just trying to start an argument do you actually believe all premies, (or is it just the active/true premies) try to interpret and follow every word he says, even jokes, as the word of GOD, as you say 'Your Master'. He once said he didn't like avocados, it would be silly to use the same argument and infer he means not to eat avocados. Wm, Whatever anyone believes M to be, they think he's that morning, noon and night. No one is saying, for example, that he only becomes 'THE MASTER' when he puts on his magic crown or anything like that. Right? Right. So, yes, it is true that many premies think he's God, or Lord or 'Master', whatever hocum that's supposed to mean. And yes, if you're one of THOSE people, when he's talking about anything, it IS God, the Lord or 'Master' talking. Is Maharaji talking about the 'inner beauty within inside'? Well that's The Master talking about 'inner beuaty within inside'. Is Maharaji talking about the importance of 'feeling the magic of gratitude and simplicity'? That's The Master talking about those things. And now is Maharaji talking about the internet? Here too, that's the Master talking about the internet. There is no escaping that simple fact. Put another way, if some premie started manufacturing a new breakfast cereal and they paid Maharaji to endorse it in either his next satsang, or maybe they'd plant a new premie-made soft drink in Maharaji's next video. Have him reach over for the can in the middle of some profundity. Camera closes in, Maharaji takes a long drink then smiles, directly into the camera, 'now that IS refeshing!'. Don't you think the premie pop maker would pay handsomely for that ad? Of course he would. Maharaji's seal of approval is everything in the premie world. You're not the first one to mention Maharaji's famous avocado line as an example of... what? That M's just another guy and he can like whatever he wants but, really, why should any of the rest of us give a fuck? Yeah, right. Gimme a break, Wm. Maybe you can find one or two teensie, weensie, cutsie little examples of where Maharaji is most definitely NOT making a pronoucement on the ultimate, special meaning of something. There! You have your great avocado moment, the one time all the premies sitting there knew for once and ever more, 'hey, that's HIS opinion. I don't have to share it if I don't want.' The great moment of premie liberation. I'm so sorry I wasn't there, it must have been something else. All the premies in the hall thinking, 'fuck you, Charlie, I LIKE avocados and nothing you or any other Lord, Master or former/current satguru can say is going to change that.' Like I say, that must have been something. Seeing all those premies just kind of instinctively shrug their shoulders and look sideways and even behind, hoping to catch some other sympathetic, smirking set of eyes, to share the small moment of emancipation. He can eat what he wants and so can I! The fact is, Wm, Maharaji's every word is part of the non-verbal magic of learning more and more about life from the Master, isn't it? You're not going to tell me that you're so 'mental' and 'complicated' that you're going to analyze his words, are you? Is that how your mother told you to receive gifts? And not just any gift but THE gift from THE giver? You know, the one that makes you SO HAPPY! No, I didn't think so. Receive, brother, receive. Let his great truth wash over you. Be humble, be humbler still. When you think you've gotten his point, realize that's the very moment you must listen deeper, more simply, not with your mind but your heart. He is talking directly to you. His gift is priceless. He is the Master! Let his love talk to your love, his heart, your heart, judge not his words, distance yourself not from his holiness. Imagine what the great Kabir himself would do if he were here with HIS Guru Ma.... sorry, Maharaji. Jokes? Yes, he jokes but only to open your heart even further and take you to a place much deeper than humour. Humour needs tension, surprise and quickness of the world. It's like light shimmering on the surface of the pool. Master will take you deeper than that. Allow his every word to guide you for he is the Guide. Open your heart like a child. You ARE a child. Forget this world, forget the past. Live this moment. Feel this moment with your true friend inside. Capture this moment as soon as the video comes out. This very moment can be yours, like other great moments. Think how blessed you are to already own over two hundred such videos? Yes, your grandchildren will thank you for that one day. After all, what did Jesus' disciples leave their families? And yet he is still here! He is here now! Shout it in your heart and maybe someone will ask you. You must try harder to reflect this love so that others, too, can see his videos. What's that? I drifted a bit. What's that you're saying, oh Lord? You don't like avocados because the pit's too big? Oh my Lord! You are so wise? Did you design the avocado just so that one day you could make this joke and open my heart? Oh my Lord, I feel so much love right now! I am letting go. I REALLY have to buy this one! This is great satsang! Oh I feel so much! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 14:25:28 (EDT)
From: Wm Email: wm_r32@yahoo.com To: Jim Subject: What is AGYA, exactly? Message: I don't know, he might have said something about the pit being to big, but I recall him saying he didn't like the consistency and it had no taste. :| Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 15:46:10 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: Thanks Jim Message: Your 'satsang' parody has given me insight into why I am confused today. You really have it down. Jesus. Thank you Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 17:47:59 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Helen Subject: Hey, its' like second nature Message: Helen, If we can't give satsang after all those years forcing it out, left, right and centre, then ... well, I don't know. You know? It's like, lt's like.... -- oops, I'm doing it again! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 18:16:25 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: That's because... Message: You're still brainwashed, you closet cultist! You're obsessed with it. You'll never live it down. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 23:43:51 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Say it isn't so Message: As our dear interloper steven said 'once a premie always a premie'. AAAAAAEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Primal scream) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 23:40:21 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: O Guru Jim Message: But you're so great at it! Really that parody was an illustration to me that had profound value. When the student is ready, the guru mimic will come! Or something like that. I have been thinking a lot about GM's powers--thinking of him as some kind of magician. I'm frightened of him, to be honest with you. Because I can't understand him, and his discourse seems to bypass the logical side of the brain so it is hard to comprehend him logically. One side of my brain is trying to remember the experience so that the other side of my brain can analyze it. I'm digging down deep into the memories and I'm getting a little stuck there at times. Figuring out GM is a fight, a struggle, I think. It scares me quite a bit. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 13:15:26 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Helen Subject: Put the lime in the coconut Message: Helen, You, too, can have fun imitating the Lard. It IS therapeutic... I think. It's easy anyway. Go one, give it a whirl. If that fat old sow Mata Ji could .... hey, forget about her. If that dimwit Bhole Ji could speak like one of the Holy Family, if that profound thinker, Raja Ji, could expound on anything, well, we all can. Please, Helen, give me a little satsang. Tell me about the heart. Heart? What heart? I've never heard aboout THAT. Please, tell me.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 16:27:07 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: The lime is a lime is a lime Message: Sorry, Jim, I was the worst satsang giver. Everyone probably inwardly groaned when it was my turn to give satsang. Mine were more commentaries than 'from the heart' I'm afraid. Cause I was always cluttering up my mind with reading too many books I'm afraid. Sorry to disappoint. Well, I'll try, here goes: 'This knowledge is just so beautiful, premies. You can look over all this world, do this do that, eat this, go here go there, but what do you have that's lasting, premies? What do you have? This beautiful knowledge is like an infinite tree whose fruits never grow stale like in this world. blah blah blah. I just can't do it. I've been in my mind too long I'm serious though, you have the gift the gift to show people how it's all in the rhetorical delivery. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 17:35:14 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Helen Subject: The lime is a lime is a lime Message: Helen, The 'gift' is the gift of opening one's mouth and going blah blah blah, like all the other people I heard do that. The standards for satsang were so nonexistent. Remember how one could just open one's mouth and say 'it's like..' without the slightest idea what you were going to say it was like. It didn't matter. It was 'like' anything and everything. Here -- this knowledge is like this keyboard. You can punch these keys this way or that but unless you [simply, really, fully, finally] [let go, ask for help, follow the instructions, find a teacher, listen to your teacher, have a REAL teacher] you will never [be able to communicate clearly, know how to use it, be able to type a simple poem from the heart, realize how much love you could express with it]. Hey, what's wrong? Get off on the wrong foot and give some lame satsnag there? Who cares? It's not the words anyway, remember? Besides, all you've got to do (if you're not too bored with your own voice and ready to shut up yet) is close your eyes and think of another metaphor. Or tell a story. Or 'confess' some completely forgiveable sin, 'You know, sometimes I really feel a craving for some ice cream, you know? I know it's just my mind and all that. Still, it's like...' Funny, I never heard anyone say 'You know, as community coordinator, sometimes I feel this urge to empty out the ashram bank account and take off with that cute little sister that's been coming to the aspirant satsangs the last few months. In fact, I've REALLY been thinking about doing this recently..' Or how about doubt? It was always okay to talk about the doubt you'd just wrestled with, victoriously, but how about someone saying 'You know, dear brothers and sisters, I kind of think this is all bullshit, if you must know. I think it's pretty stupid to think we can all get together night after night and pretend that any fucking thing that comes out of our mouth is some sort of spiritual food for each other. Frankly, I've never gotten over Maharaji's marriage, if you must know. I'm beginning to think I've been had. How about you?' No, I don't remember that satsang (although we were getting kind of warm in early '76). No, if regular discussion is like a game of poker or maybe even bridge sometimes, giving satsang is more like a round of 'fish'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 18:40:52 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: The lime is a lime is a lime Message: Well, I do remember that satsang was a way to keep it pumped up. I went to an unusual college near Grand Rapids, Michigan called William James College.. One of the teachers there was a film teacher and a premie. (A really smart lady, I liked her a lot). ANother of my professors (probably they weren't called 'professors', but teachers as it was a state college), was into a swami that had an ashram outside of Grand Rapids, MI. The teacher that was into the Swami used to say that 'those premies really keep it pumped up, don't they?' I think the premie trip seemed a little excessive to him, he was not as much into wearing his spiritual path on his sleeve. The point I started out to make is that satsang kept everything pumped up. I can remember being so confused when I was an aspirant and calling the ashram to get satsang, like a neurotic calling their psychiatrist to get a refill on some sedatives. I have to admit though that some of the premies were very sincere and serious in their devotion and their love for GM was obviously genuine. Some of them had a great sense of humor about it all too. I was probably terrible at giving satsang because I never was that sincere about it all. I wanted to get from point A to point B (enlightenment) but never forged much of a real connection w/ GM. I guess I still think that there are/were many truly good, loving people into this premie thing, I'm sure you feel the same way. Seeing how you could demonstrate satsang and me have an experience from it, shows me how easy it is to fall for this K trip. It can happen to anyone, and it is awfully difficult to untangle from it all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 21:39:17 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: Addendum to Lime Message: God, we were so young. What the hell did we know about what we were getting ourselves into? I had no clue about how to evaluate anything back then much less how to evaluate the 'spiritual director' of my life. I mean think about it. We are lucky our asses are alive. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 22:36:52 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Helen Subject: Addendum to Lime Message: We are lucky our asses are alive. Yes, you are. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 10:52:29 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Wm Subject: What is AGYA, exactly? Message: WM: Actually, when I said 'true/active premies,' I meant those that have dedicated themselves to M and his mission. Sorry, it wasn't as 'profound' a statement as you were interpreting. If you have dedicated, if you believe in M's mission, if you believe that K or M are anything 'special,' then you fall into the category of a 'true premie' for the purposes of this post. - Yes, absolutely, if M said he didn't like avacados, if I were a premie I would certainly buy fewer avacados because they are obviously a 'defective' fruit if the LARD doesn't like them. Hey, you listened to what he said about vegetarianism, right? You got 'from him' why you should be a vegetarian, right? Yeah, you know....seeds are dead and animals aren't, remember? Well, maybe there's something wrong with avacados, too! Yeah, like there's too much FAT in them, for example. Yeah...Yeah, that must be the 'real' reason that M doesn't like them...too much fat. Get it, WM? That's called rationalization and premies do it ALL OF THEM TIME! So they can follow his silly 'orders' as perfectly as possible. - Now tell me, when someone sets themselves up as a 'master,' 'god,' whatever, are they responsible for this line of thinking from their 'followers?' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:18:31 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Wm Subject: To WM Message: WM: Please read the WHOLE post, will ya? I noticed that you were only talking about the contents of the 'intro.' Yes, after years and years (22, to be exact) of following orders, giving orders and interpreting orders, I think I know what the heck an order is and how it is perceived when the 'giver' is imbued with any power (real or perceived). - If Bill Clinton were to visit a military facility, look at the 'floor' and make a funny smirk based on what he saw, YOU CAN BET YOUR BUTT that there would be a thousand guys/gals cleaning that floor IMMEDIATELY. ALL without a single WORD having been spoken. It would be an 'order' without a single word, get it? Now, you're trying to tell me that this can't possibly be the case when your LARD or MASTER (or even TEACHER) speaks, makes a comment or derides a thing? You aren't going to give anything he says any credence without experiencing it for yourself, right? Are you a vegetarian? If so, why? Did he tell you to? Did he intimate that it would be better for you? Gimme a break WM! If you expect me to believe that you place no importance on his words or his derisive comments about 'things,' then you are either not being honest (with yourself or me) or you have absolutely no grasp of reality, whatsoever. - OF COURSE you give his every word credence because you believe that he is something 'special.' THAT, my friend is the act of empowerment and 'perceiving' authority... Get it? You have given him the power over you by thinking, no matter how minutely, that he has something that you want and that this 'something' is a thing that you don't currently have.... get it? If you thought that 'I' had something that would make you happy for all eternity, you would follow every command (spoken or unspoken or even hinted at) that I made. YOU BETTER because I may take that 'thing' away if you don't. Since you believe that he gave you a 'gift,' you must also believe that he can take it away. - Since I know that he didn't give me anything (except an empty wallet and lots of promises), he has absolutely NO POWER over me and, in fact, I laugh in his pathetic face! ....... Guess what, I still haven't been struck by lightening! I wonder why????? Hmmmm. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 21:41:24 (EST)
From: Wm Email: None To: Mike Subject: To WM Message: I don't know if the avocado thing is good example, I don't remember in what context he was talking so it could be as Jim says a teensie, weensie, cutsie little examples of where Maharaji is most definitely NOT making a pronoucement on the ultimate, special meaning of something. I remember it was made in the ‘70''s, late. It sounds trite to me but at the time it seemed important that he could dis-like something, and I didn't. He might have been making some profound statement that I missed while marveling at this insight I got. Hey, you can ask me what Maharaji is responsible for but you don't really expect an answer from me, a premie. I hope, sometimes I can have faith but in my day to day life thats about all I can muster 'hope'. I read your whole post and I agree premies give Maharaji power over their lives,yes over my life. You don't make it sound very nice but this is ex-premie.org. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 22:02:56 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Wm Subject: To WM Message: Wm, I don't know why, but I kind of like you. Just thought I'd say that. I guess it's because you seem a bit more honest than most premies who post here. Sorry, damning with faint praise and all. Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 09:52:41 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Wm Subject: Back atcha! Message: WM: I am in FULL agreement with Jim concerning your post. THAT was an honest and forthright answer... THANKS! - No, I really don't expect you to answer that question, it's food for thought that's all. The main thrust of that thought is this: When someone is 'given' power over another, voluntarily or otherwise, it is the responsibility of the 'authority' to ensure that no abuse of that power occurs. When I was in a position to give lawful orders (or suggestions, take your pick), I was totally responsible for the outcome. This was particularly true if the orders were misunderstood/unclear. In other words, I and I alone was responsible for any untoward effect that my orders/suggestions produced. I had to take great care that my orders didn't produce those effects and I had to monitor the situations, that I placed people in, to ensure that no misunderstandings got in the way of successful completion (and ensure nobody gets hurt, etc). M doesn't seem to be following that very basic standard, at all. Alot of people have been hurt by his 'movement' and he hasn't taken ANY responsibility for it. You can't give orders/suggestions to anyone, over whom you have authority, without taking absolute responsibility for the outcome. You can't change the rules without accepting that same responsibility, either. If M doesn't want to be in that position, then he should quit. It's that simple. - Again, thanks for the post. The honesty was definitely a breath of fresh air. ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 11:25:45 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: What do you think? Message: Here's something from one of the premies over on the Enjoyingbeinginacult site: I first heard of Maharaji in 1971. I was visiting my mother-in-law with my two children, drinking tea and watching the news on the television. The newscaster was Talking about an Indian boy who had come to England. He was talking about Maharaji in a cynical way, I remember feeling really cross and thinking what does he know about it anyway. Now my question is really simple. Do you think the premie who wrote this carefully chose her words to conceal just what the newscaster was saying and what he was cynical about (i.e. that Maharji was the Lord of the Universe come at this time bring Peace to the World)or do you think the pagemeisters censored any inadvertent mention she made of the truth? It's got to be one or the other. I mean, if there was any dialogue on the page the natural question to this woman, one Teresa Woodbridge, would be, 'Well, just what WAS the newscaster saying?' I mean to say she seems to be going out of her way to tell a story and yet leave out a pretty central part. In fact, if you read them, ALL the entries are like that, including Mahatma Gurucharanand's. So, what do you think? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 13:24:52 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: What do you think? Message: Jim, I think the pattern is pretty obvious and is consistent through all the lives tales over there, and I've noticed it from the very beginning. There is likely a lot of self-censorship involved, where negative or embarrassing stuff about Maharaji and his cult is omitted or glossed over, or blamed on the premies, but I wouldn't be surprised is there is a lot of editing going on as well. I found very interesting the entry by this Irish guy, Tony O'Dwyer. He says he was attracted to his hippie girl, Sarah, 25 years ago,, followed her to satsang, and received knowledge a week later. He then moved into the ashram but got kicked out after a 'few weeks' for screwing Sarah 'on a pretty routine basis,' getting drunk, apparently also on a regular basis, and eating meat in the ashram. He says he did all this because he 'wasn't ready for Maharaj Ji's (sic, as to current spelling) gift.' [Despite being thrown out of the ashram, Tony remembers those days 'with a great fondness, still.' But, given that he describes 'those days' as verging on an almost continuous, drunken orgy, I'm not surprised. Somehow, I think his 'fondness' for that period has more to do with that girl Sarah, and a lot of hooch, than with the experience of the divine knowledge.] Apparently also because he wasn't ready for 'the gift,' he then completely spaced out knowledge, for the next 25 years, although he 'tried to practice when he could.' [Apparently, running a chicken farm in Ireland makes it really difficult, if not impossible, to practice this most simple and pleasurable of gifts. I'm sure the current, more sophisticated aspirant process weeds out chicken farmers these days. ] He said he just couldn't practice without a daily focus [Huh? I thought knowledge was the daily focus, maybe that's how I got confused.] Then his marriage failed and he moved to England and he found the enjoyinglife website. Okay, maybe he is just a spaced-out example of what this knowledge can do for you. Maybe it's just a lot more complicated than Maharaji really says. But, in any event, this is how the webmasters over at enjoyinglife summarized this guy's entry in a matter that is a little disingenuous: By following his feeling that he should be able to experience the mystery of nature within, (where the hell did he say that?) he found himself attracted to knowledge some 25 years ago (actually it was Sarah, he was attracted to); and the attraction remains the same. (Doesn't this kinda misrepresent his 25-year hiatis from experiencing the mystery of nature within just a tad?) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 17:20:41 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: JW Subject: Chicken farmer Message: I found the mystery of within--drinkin' corn liquor! Hehaw! Man, is that loser the best they can do on that web site? Jeez, he sounds like just the kind of guy I'd want representing me if I were the damn fool Lord of the Un-ee-verse (; Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 13:56:12 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: What do you think? Message: Do you think the premie who wrote this carefully chose her words to conceal just what the newscaster was saying and what he was cynical about (i.e. that Maharji was the Lord of the Universe come at this time bring Peace to the World)or do you think the pagemeisters censored any inadvertent mention she made of the truth? I don't think either, although one or the other could be true. What's important here, to me, is that this is the first time Teresa heard of Maharaji. She doesn't say what the 'cynical' reporter was saying, but whatever it was, she was put off by it. Once again, I am baffled. Why would you feel cross watching a news report that is cynical about someone you never even heard of? I guess I'm to assume that this is proof, of some kind of 'spiritual' tie she had with M before she met him. This has always been a popular belief in eastern mysticism, that master and devotee are forever united, only temporarily separated in this world, hearts searching for each other. What a lovely thought, don't you think? I remember thinking that way, wondering if Maharaji and me were 2 souls that reunited upon our meeting in this frigtening and cruel world. I really wanted to believe that was true, and that now that we had reunited, all would be well. You can get really lost in this world and start thinking some weird shit. What you have to realize, though, is that it's all in your head. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 23:27:49 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: webmaster@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: ***POOF*** Goodbye, Steven Message: If anyone hasn't yet read the Forum Introduction, please do so before posting here. This forum is not going to be used to make violent threats. Steven/Sir Ated/Frank is now blocked. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 10:56:56 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Brian Subject: ***POOF*** Goodbye, Steven Message: Thank You, Brian. This guy gives vets a VERY bad name! If he was one, that is! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 23:25:49 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Maharaji vs the Internet?? Message: In Miami, on May 10, 1998, Maharaji either did or did not say that premies should not go on the internet (or something to that effect). Gail heard him say that, came home, and did a web search and found Ex-Premie.org and became an ex-premie. CD on the other hand compared it Maharaji speaking about the the technological inovation of sliced bread (sorry, CD, but that's what I got from what you said. You are welcome to correct me). A Lurker said that M didn't like the internet, but didn't say that premies shouldn't go there (hope I'm quoting you correctly as well). NI has the videos and a transcript, and such statement is nowhere to be found. Some people say that it may have been edited from the videos. Here's what I say: who cares? I don't care if M thinks premies should go on the Internet or not. After hearing the arguments on this web site, I have come to the conclusion that any premies who heard him say something about the internet will interpret it in any way they please. I believe Gail when she said that she heard him say not to go on the internet in Miami and I am very pleased that she found this site because of that. I hope some other premies did too. If other premies who attended the Miami event want to interpret what they heard him say in a different way, then that's fine with me. I certainly don't care if premies use the internet, and I welcome them to post on this site. I'd be interested to try an experiment with the premies who post on here, though. Try leaving your e-mail address along with your post. (No, I don't think you'll get hate mail. CD has met a lot of people throught this site.) You can get an anonymous e-mail address through Hotmail (www.hotmail.com), Rocketmail (www.rocketmail.com), and other places. I'd be curious to see what happens when you leave an e-mail address, if you care to tell us. Take care, all. Katie P.S. And to NI - totally off topic: the Ni River is a river in Virginia. Everytime I see your name I think of that. It's a tributary of the Mataponi River, which eventually splits up into the Ma, the Ta, the Po, and the Ni. Just a bit of trivia for you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 00:04:37 (EDT)
From: Wm..'A Lurker' Email: wm_r32@yahoo.com To: Katie Subject: Maharaji vs the Internet?? Message: A Lurker said that M didn't like the internet, but didn't say that premies shouldn't go there (hope I'm quoting you correctly as well). at least I didn't hear him say 'not to go there' and I am wary of any quotes of him, about him etc... and the question never came up until I kept hearing it over and over from here 'daddy said not go' got a lot of response at least more than the usual of 1 per month over at CD's premie forum. Wm Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 09:51:28 (EDT)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Wm..'A Lurker' Subject: Glad you finally got reponse Message: WM, the premie forum seems to have died a death. All the people who post on the guestbook etc don't seem interested in going to the forum. I felt sorry for Hiram and his lonely looking 'Hello' post. At least he got a response from you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 00:59:09 (EDT)
From: Dievine Email: None To: Katie Subject: Off subject Message: I canoed down the Mataponi as a boy scout while living on the cia 'farm' nearby. Wonderful trip- couldn't resist the trivia... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 17:49:21 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Dievine Subject: Off subject - mattaponi Message: HI Dievine - yes, that is a beautiful part of the country (even with all those 'spooks' around - hee hee. A lot of them were my friends' moms and dad, as I found out later). Homesick in the Heartland, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 02:42:09 (EDT)
From: jethro Email: None To: Katie Subject: Maharaji vs the Internet?? Message: Hi Katie 'Here's what I say: who cares? I don't care if M thinks premies should go on the Internet or not...' I couldn't agree more. It's what he puts out. I know that every single premie I have spoken with over the last few years has told me that 'the net is bad.......maharaji said so' or something akin to that. I have no doubt that loads of premies would love to participate here......but are really scared of upsetting prempal. A great pity as many of them have a lot to give. Pity it has to be corked up. Anyway....I'm enjoying life :>) Love from Jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 06:20:26 (EDT)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Katie Subject: Maharaji vs the Internet?? Message: Isn't it always the case; tell a child NOT to open that box and as soon as you leave the room they're going to have to take a look to see what's in it. I think |Maharaji has underestimated people's natural curiosity. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 14:11:34 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Katie Subject: Maharaji vs the Internet?? Message: I thought I posted this, but I have waited some tme and it's not here so I am repeating. IF it shows up later, I'll be embarrassed by that's nothing new here. I am somewhat mad at myself for starting this whole thing. I just wondered why people were saying M told premies not to use the net so I asked. Little did I know I would be moved to break one of my own rules about responding to people like that. I have (had?) this idea that those people should be treated like my 2 and 3 year olds back when they used to act out. As long as it wasn't real disruptive I would give as little energy to their behavior as possible. My idea being any feedback will reinforce their behavior. I have tried very hard on forum to just ignore arrogant mean posts from premies. If anyone is familiar with the tar baby fable, that's how I look at it. The more you try to fix it the more stuck and emeshed you get in it. This is just my rule for me, not anyone else. it's good that others do respond. otherwise we'd be as mindless and uncommunicative as some cult members are. Why I got so into it these past couple days is beyond me but I suspect it's just plain simple boredom at work. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 14:51:41 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Katie Subject: Maharaji vs the Internet?? Message: On May 20, 1998, I wrote to Jim: I just got off the phone with my friend who is a premie. She informed me of some upcoming events and of the fact that she has been bringing new people to see videos. She also stated that maharaji mentioned in Miami that there are people on the web who are saying things that are not very nice about him. He told the gathering that he didn't care. As I recall, she said the audience applauded after he said that. Regards, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 14:55:43 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: eb Subject: And another thing... Message: I forgot to add that I really don't care that he doesn't care. I mean really, who cares? Carelessly, eb running bear Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 15:28:54 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Katie Subject: Maharaji vs the Internet?? Message: I don't care if M thinks premies should go on the Internet or not. Agreed, Katie. This is an issue for discussion at enjoyinglife.com-snicker. It may or may not affect the life of the premies, but what M wants or doesn't want doesn't effect the majority of the people here. He probably would love us to kiss his feet, too, but it's not happening. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 07:56:56 (EDT)
From: NI Email: None To: Katie Subject: Maharaji vs the Internet?? Message: Hi Katie if everybody on this site was as civilised and rational as you are, i would not mind leaving my e-mail adress. unfortunately, i feel pretty disgusted by the verbal abuse i got after posting here a couple of times. there is no way in h....that i would do that. to leave an e-mail adress, you have to feel in a safe environment and this place is not what i call a safe environment PS: i don't care about the Internet issue anymore either! i just wanted to make a point. By the way, Gail started this when she announced that she would post the quote (see her post on tuesday) PSS: NI stands for Nobody Important, but i find your description much mor poetic...i will take it Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:19:53 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: NI Subject: Abuse? Message: NI: Now that's not quite true.... You did say something to me in French that wasn't very nice, you know! It's ok, because turnabout is fair-play. I dish it out, I know that I will receive some in return. Unfortunately, you began 'demanding' things at the same time we were dealing with a 'premie' that threatened physical violence against Jim and myself. You haven't said a thing about 'that,' why not? A little verbal 'abuse' (in any language) is alot better that physical threats (which you will note have only been made by 'premies'). If you considered my responses to you offensive, consider how I feel about being threatened with physical violence for expressing an opinion to a premie! You will also note that 'I' never 'threatened' you or anyone else despite a raucous verbal exchange (nor would I/we ever do that). - On the serious side: If you wish to leave your email address, do not be concerned about your 'safety.' You won't receive any unsolicited email from anyone here (I never have). Some things are better discussed in email, anyway (especially if they are off-topic). In other words, you don't have to be concerned about receiving something from me, unless you ask for something from me. I think that pretty much applies to everyone here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 14:37:32 (EDT)
From: NI Email: None To: Mike Subject: Abuse? Message: Hi Mike about Steven: i am not associated in anyway with this weirdo. i don`t see the reason why i should be and i am glad he went 'poof'. i do not consider that you threatened me. but i can tell you that i would walk away from anyone who would 'verbally' tell me what you wrote; and in a sense, it is a form of threat. to be honest, i would be a little scared of someone who speaks this way. PS: about the e-mail, there isn`t anything anyone could write to make me feel that it is a safe thing to do...not after i have read what i read Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 14:49:37 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: NI Subject: Abuse? Message: NI, Didn't you already tell us your name anyway? Isn't it Celeste or something like that? Whatever. That doesn't really matter that much. What does matter ... aw, shit, today I'm a nihilist. Nothing matters. Have a nice day. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 22:02:08 (EDT)
From: NI Email: None To: Jim Subject: Abuse? Message: Celeste????? ROTL! nice try though :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 11:03:25 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: NI Subject: Abuse? Message: Nah, Jim it was Cecile according to one of her posts to JW! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 15:02:12 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: NI Subject: Abuse? Message: NI: Fair enough, but again, I would probably 'walk away' from anyone making 'demands' that aren't theirs to make. But, I won't quibble about it. I just wanted to let you know that you would be safe in giving your email address to anyone you wanted to on this site. Even if I knew it, I would not send any to you unless you requested. Understand that I can only speak for myself here, but that's the way 'I' do things. Free thought AND Free Speech (even offensive speech) are permitted here, unlike other places. I'm sorry you equate 'free speech' with 'unsafe.' Personally, I don't see it that way, but that's me. - One other thing, I understand and respect what you said about steven, but YOU DO have something in common with him... You are both premies. (Albeit, you 'seem' to be a nicer one than some who have visited this site). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 15:09:00 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: NI Subject: NI: An addendum, sorry Message: NI: You are right about one thing that you said and that I forgot to address: I AM FEROCIOUS when I'm defending someone. Even though Gail didn't ask for it, I did so because I thought the 'attack' on her veracity was TOTALLY uncalled for (and still do). I'm that way! But fear me? You do not have anything to be afraid of.... Really, I'm just a teddy bear. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 16:37:14 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Mike Subject: What about my veracity, NI? Message: You said: Even though Gail didn't ask for it, I did so because I thought the 'attack' on her veracity was TOTALLY uncalled for (and still do). I'm that way! I believe veracity means truthfulness or accuracy, does it not? What are you saying? Did you defend me or attack me? May I suggest that you go for psychiatric counselling yourself. You don't seem to have your facts straight. The first thing they will probably tell you is that you have been living like a prisoner of war. That's what I was told. Please explain how I got to this website since I never went looking for MJ on the net before he mentioned it. Please explain why EV called Brian, the webmaster (I take it you did read the conversation over). Remember Marolyn's satsang about how MJ would insist that the red carpet was, in fact, blue. This drove her crazy until she 'surrendered.' This is what you are like, NI. When I don't know something, I say I don't know. When I am uncertain, I say I'm uncertain. When I know something, I know it. I do not lie. Others have mentioned that MJ did talk about the net in Miami. Why can't we find anything on the videos? Please explain? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 16:46:52 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gail Subject: What about my veracity, NI? Message: Gail: Whoa.... I think you are mixing me and NI up. The quote is mine, but you are letting ME have it.... I was telling NI that I (mike) was defending you, even though you didn't ask for it. Sorry, did I mix up the words in a way that mixes up the meaning? - As to whether I believe NI was attacking your veracity.... the answer is definitely YES. That's why I got pretty nasty with her. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 22:08:07 (EDT)
From: NI Email: None To: Mike Subject: Interesting mix-up! Message: Mike, now you know how it feels to be 'attacked' for no reason whatsoever.(how do you like the mention about psychiatric help?) anyhow i am going back to the lurker mode...it is less demanding and time consuming. In spite of everything, it has been fun talking to you Bye, 'Teddy Bear' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 00:11:44 (EDT)
From: Just some idiot Email: None To: NI Subject: Interesting mix-up! Message: What I find interesting is that premies can't help but lurk here whether they participate or not. The truth is an irresistable attraction... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 11:45:11 (EST)
From: NI Email: None To: Just some idiot Subject: Interesting mix-up! Message: Hi idiot, you are totally right. and here i am, responding, even though i had decided to go back to lurking mode...i guess this is normal human nature to be curious... the same way, ex-premies go lurking on the enjoyinglife site....thus the 4000 hits a day Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 09:43:45 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: NI Subject: Interesting mix-up! Message: NI: It was no problem, especially since I knew that Gail misunderstood 'who said what.' Since the post wasn't to me, but to you, I also knew that she wasn't insinuating that I get help, either. You will note that 'IF' you had sent the post that I wrote, YOU likely would need psych help, since it was totally contradictory to what you had said earlier. - BTW, again you don't take responsibility for YOUR action which was to come on this forum and DEMAND something. If you can't see that, then you really are in lala-land. There is a BIG difference between asking and demanding. Teddy Bear ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 17:07:51 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gail Subject: To Gail: Message: Gail: Please accept my apology for the confusion. Apparently I wasn't to clear in my post to NI. So unclear, in fact, that it appeared that 'I' was attacking you..... Not hardly, I was attacking NI (in your defense). NO, I don't think you need defending, I just don't like it when premies come on to this forum and call the participants liars just because we don't agree with them. Again, sorry for the confusion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 20:40:16 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Mike Subject: To Mike: Sorry Chief! nt Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 15:44:23 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gail Subject: To Gail: No probs! nt Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 15:09:00 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: NI Subject: NI: An addendum, sorry Message: NI: You are right about one thing that you said and that I forgot to address: I AM FEROCIOUS when I'm defending someone. Even though Gail didn't ask for it, I did so because I thought the 'attack' on her veracity was TOTALLY uncalled for (and still do). I'm that way! But fear me? You do not have anything to be afraid of.... Really, I'm just a teddy bear. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 15:10:12 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mike Subject: Now...what the heck is... Message: Sorry NI, somehoe I posted the same addendum twice... man!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 20:54:17 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Proof! Message: No, this isn't proof of Maharaji's comments about the net. It's proof that premies are as brainwashed for love as Louis Le Pew: This is the first time I have looked at the internet and felt joy inside. Also I was very inspired after Raja Ji´s visit to Stockholm. Lovely! Anyone who can find inspiration in Raja Ji .... sorry, I can't finish this. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 21:13:38 (EDT)
From: Sir Ated Email: None To: Jim Subject: Edge-u -Cation Message: If you're true,a curse can't reach you and death can't eat you. Walking from truth to truth, what can destroy you? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 21:23:37 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Sir Ated Subject: Ignorance - Katie or Brian Message: Steven, I'm assuming this is you. Hey, maybe I'm wrong but what the hell? Anyway, we'll find out soon enough. Steven is about to be blocked from this site, I'd imagine. Cardinal rule -- no threats. Steven violated it down below and that's that. So, like I say, it'll be interesting to see if you, Sir, are still here after Steven's long gone, don't you think? Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 22:16:06 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Sir Ated Subject: Edge-u -Cation Message: Well, once (wonce for you, steven) again we see how this Knowledge fills people with love and the ability to enjoy life so that they may threaten the lives of others. You, sir, are tiresome. As amusing as you have been, it will be a pleasure to see that you have been blocked. Oh, just in case you haven't figured it out (although this is difficult to believe since you are SO CLEVER!), Jim is not our leader; for ex-premies, OUR BRAINS ARE THE BOSS! Love in Christ, Fr. Mickey (sorry, Gerry) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 22:37:42 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Edge-u -Cation Message: No apologies needed, Mickey, except maybe one from me. Yer not so bad after all. (Does that qualify?) It will have to, I've forgotten what bugged me . Yours in Alzheimers, Gerry Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 22:47:11 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Edge-u -Cation Message: In honor of our reconciliation, I shall refrain from using derogatory names for those who disagree with me politically for 48 hours, and believe me, this will be tough! Yer not so bad yer self. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 22:55:39 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Edge-u -Cation Message: Mick, In an attempt to be equally magnanimous, I shall ( got the ''shall''part from Keith) I shall lighten up on our dear deluded brother steven if he promises not to frag us all... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 23:02:06 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Edge-u -Cation Message: Oh, let's not let up on steven and say we did! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 23:12:30 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Edge-u -Cation Message: Oh, let's not let up on steven and say we did! Oh, OK! I can do that! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 11:06:26 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Frag? Message: Gerry: Why is it that you can make me 'belly laugh' so early in the morning. YOU really are a bright spot in my day... CONSISTANTLY! You've definitely got the talent and I, for one, am glad that you do. THANKS! ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 22:33:08 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Sir Ated Subject: Edge-u -Cation Message: I couldn't sleep si I'm still up. Well Steven Frank & Sir Ated, what was the purpose of all of this? It looks like you started out OK but lost it a bit near the end. I think an apology for the threats is needed, just out of common decency. Both premies and ex-premies are linked by a common bond in that we have looked for something greater than the norm, from life. If you see ex-premies as bad people or enemies then it's just a distortion. Let me tell you what prevents me from going to see a Maharaji video; If Maharaji was the Lord, God manifest in human form, I would drive right now down to his English residence in Surrey and stand outside his residence and even though he's not at home, I would do full pranam outside his residence, in the mud and let the night security premies drag me away like I was a bongo. I got a scent of what it must be like to be a devotee of the living Lord. Too bad it was just a fantasy. Too bad Maharaji only allowed the fantasy to be spread and in fact, proclaimed himself to actually be God and fooled so many of us. So without Maharaji being the Lord, none of the knowledge and the videos mean a jot to me. They are merely a philosophy, rather dry actually and there's no passion there for me. Sure, we can meditate on our breath and still our mind sometimes, perhaps do some other of the techniques but that to me is just a personal relaxation excercise. It is far, far removed from the philosophy that Maharaji preaches. So for me, dear boy, it's all over. Maharaji wasn't the Lord who I genuinely thought I'd realised he was, so this trip is dead. As dead as a parrot with its feet in the air. There are benefits to meditation just like there's benefits to aromatherapy or hypnosis. Personally, I've experienced quite a lot (occasionally) from one or two of the techniques. 3 & 4 have both got me high at times but it is elusive and one cannot aspire to some nirvana which never ever comes. Let's be realistic. Most humans are not cut out to be great meditators. It's not the way we are and Maharaji is proclaiming a falsehood by suggesting that we can all become immersed in 'that place'. And to be honest, meditation can be harmful if it is forced or too much is tried or expected from it. Like acid, it can send some people over the edge. SO the only philosophy which I would ever believe worth propogating is kindness, compassion, understanding, tolerance and love between us mere mortals. In the end, that is the most important thing. Paul of Biblical fame did say one thing which is very true; something about if I have all of these things but have not love, well what have I got? SO Steven, you've spread some bad vibes to some people here. Wouldn't it be just so right to realise that you'd gone a bit too far and get a nice feeling that, hey, it's more manly to apologise. Forget knowledge or Maharaji for a moment because that is different for everybody here. What is the same for us all is the common bond of humanity we can all share. That's real, brother. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:28:13 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: RT Subject: Anyone who went to Miami (May) Message: In case the net junk has been edited out of the Miami video, what did MJ say regarding this site. This is how RT found it too, I believe. Right after Miami, he accessed this place and quit the cult. Simon Melborne: Lynn Devine: Susan Doyle: I know you're all lurking here. What did he say guys. PS: Simon, I thought you were going to quit reading here after MJ said not to. You just can't keep away, can you! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:31:47 (EDT)
From: NI Email: None To: Gail Subject: Anyone who went to Miami (May) Message: I went to Miami, if you need any help Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:42:56 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: NI Subject: Anyone who went to Miami (May) Message: NI: YOU ARE LYING.... Now, PROVE that you are not a LIAR! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:45:34 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: NI Subject: I'm waiting, NI Message: NI: come on, you've had enough time to perform the task that I gave you below AND prove that you were at the miami event...come on get with it, boy! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:24:55 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: NI Subject: Still waiting... Message: NI: you really are a coward, aren't you? Come on, be honest! Now that our point about YOU has been made, you cower under your blankey and pray to the king of liars! Pray that he saves you from these mean-spirited ex's that are so deluded by what they know to be true; experiences that they've REALLY had. - I don't like cowards much. I don't think that I will post to you or answer anything from you, again. I know, you're probably thinking, 'so what?' You're right, coward, SO WHAT! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:48:08 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Gail Subject: Anyone who went to Miami (May) Message: Gail The videos are edited. I know this. I gave an example down below of my own experience (which will not be believed either), so I know you aren't but just in case, don't let this NI get to you. When a belief system is threatened the person fights back. I believe you. I only started that thread because I kept seeing comments about M telling premies to get off of here and I didn't know the source. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:08:27 (EDT)
From: NI Email: None To: Selene & Mike Subject: the best defense... Message: is offense i guess: if you can't demonstrate something, just attack the person who asks the question. Selene, read my post below about editing! ONE MORE TIME FOR EVERYBODY: M. NEVER instructed premies not to go on the Internet this is a falacy that has been repeated many times on this site, and this is why i challenged Gail or anybody else to give me the quote. that is all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:43:17 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: NI Subject: the best defense... Message: One correction, NI. I don't know what Maharaji may have said at some program, and I really don't care. But, premies who were posting on the old 'premie.com' website, that no longer exists, were contacted by 'people around Maharaji' and told that Maharaji did not want premies discussing him or knowledge on the internet. We know this, because Brian, our esteemed webmaster was actually contected in this way, and I think spoke with Booth Dyess via telephone about this. I think in that discussion, Brian asked for and got confirmation, that these were Big M's wishes. 'premie.com' disappeared right at that same time. I think Brian has somewhere on the site what actually happened and what was said in that interchange. So, I don't know if M said people should stay away from the internet, but I think this expression of his wishes are quite clear. Whether he has changed his mind about that, I also can't say. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 13:33:34 (EDT)
From: NI Email: None To: JW Subject: the best defense... Message: Hi JW, thank you for an honest answer without swearing, insulting, etc. i appreciate this Cecile Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 15:44:46 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: NI Subject: Also, NI Message: NI, Just adding to what JW said. A premie Mili, who ran a premie site along with someone named Harlan, admitted on this forum that he was asked by PAM to shut his site down. It is in the archives within the past 9 months. You can read it if you are interested. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 00:18:54 (EDT)
From: Dievine Email: None To: NI Subject: the best defense... Message: In the last year, I have clearly heard M express his displeasure of the internet, although he never specified why. I believe I heard him say he 'had two words to describe it'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 13:43:41 (EDT)
From: NI Email: None To: Dievine Subject: this is different... Message: M. did make a few comments, but people on this site are pretending that he GAVE ORDERS to premies not to go on the Internet. i am glad that people are admitting this was not exactly the case Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 14:15:46 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: NI Subject: this is different... Message: NI: Since you have stopped 'demanding,' I will definitely be happy to stop the abuse. If you will allow me to continue with a discussion that has some merit. Thank you. - You bring up a good point concerning 'orders.' Before I start, let me say that I was NOT at the Miami program in question. But, one thing that I DO understand is orders; how to give them, how to take them, how to obey them and exactly 'what' constitutes an order from 'higher authority.' Depending upon exactly 'who' is giving the order and 'how' that person's position is defined, a simple 'suggestion' can be (and should be) viewed as an order. It doesn't matter that the word, 'agya' or 'order' is used or not. Let me illustrate my point: If I suggested to one of my military subordinates that they 'shine their shoes,' do you think they just blew-me-off? I don't think so! I rarely, and I do mean RARELY, had to tell anyone that it was an 'order.' My authority (perceived and real) to 'give' orders was enough justification for those that needed to follow my orders. - How much more effective is a 'suggestion' if it's coming from someone that you think is GOD, for heavens sake? He hasn't 'got' authority, he IS THE AUTHORITY.... Period. If he is your 'master,' don't you think that any 'suggestion' from him will be interpreted as an absolute ORDER by the masses? Come on, be honest on this one (not that you haven't before, BTW). If M speaks even a joke, premies listen, interpret and follow every single thing that he says, as if it were GOD speaking. (e.g. 'What will happen to me if I don't follow his 'suggestion?' 'Even if I don't particularly like the suggestion?') - That's my take on this whole thing. It's the 'perceived' authority that makes it an order, even if it is said to be a simple suggestion. Again, since I wasn't there, I can't say that he did or didn't 'order' you to stay off of the internet. But the 'perceived' impression of an order is as good as the word 'ORDER.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 14:00:17 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gail Subject: Anyone who went to Miami (May) Message: Gail: I will add my voice to Selene's! I will always believe the person that was THERE over the edited pablum that is delivered to the general premie/aspirant audience via video tape. ANYONE that thinks massive editing isn't occurring is simply a moron. It was occurring long before now. I was in Miami in 77(?) and some really (at the time) great things happened. Well, I get the tape and NONE of it is there... At least, none of the parts that I gave a hang about. Did they happen? Well, the premies sitting next to me were good friends and THEY STILL talk about the editing of THAT video. You see, what happened wouldn't be good pr because it looked like we were 'worshipping' him. Tell me, why do/did they edit ARTI out of almost every video that was produced? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:10:12 (EDT)
From: steven Email: None To: Jim Heller Subject: your government Message: Sorry people for bugging you so much. Your government during the /60s taught me everything I know to get thru the war. Yes as a matter of fact I was a very good fucking stalker in the war for my country! You little dweeb computor cowards would not have this free speech if it was not for us and the fighters of past wars. So I will not bother you guys any more because we got our sites back. Stay away from us and I will not need to bother you guys. Is this a deal MR.HELLER? Do you have any control at all over your ants of slander and counter intelligance?Maybe you should e-mail them? If not then I am a very well adapted at what I do.And Have much personel to choose from who are not as goody goody as you think. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:17:38 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: steven Subject: Overt threat Message: OK piss ant you just stepped on your dick. This is the most blantant and cowardly threat anyone ever posted here. I can see what Knowledge has done in your life. Turned you into a raving murderous maniac. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:22:09 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: steven Subject: Watch yourself Steven Message: Steve: A 'computer dweeb?' Hey, get it right... I'm a computer 'geek' .... now! I've fought wars too, Steven. But you know what? I don't bring the subject up for my own personal aggrandizment, ever! Funny, no friends of mine (vets) that I know do that, either. And we sure don't try to lord-it-over anyone for having done our duty. Are you trying to impress us, Steve? Are you trying to threaten with us with your superior 'stalking skills?' I'm beginning to wonder about you and your participation in the military! Real vets don't talk like that! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:41:39 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: all Subject: threats on forum Message: Katie or Brian can correct me if I am wrong, but threats are one of the few reasons someone can be blocked by forum. That was a threat to Jim, in my opinion. I'd be freaked if someone wrote something that was that directly threatening to me. Jim is different than me, but if that had happened to me i would request Brian or Katie to block that person. Or I'd just stop posting - i mean I'd be scared! I keep coming back to one of those old videos, was it Power of Love? Where it ends with these words across the screen' 'by his fruits you shall know him' Congrats M, you got yourself quite a loving bunch. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 15:57:22 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Selene Subject: threats on forum Message: Well said, Selene. Don't be afraid of this guy. He is full-of-it. Yes, I agree, he should be banned for threats. It just bugs me when someone comes on this forum and tries to make his points by using the 'military service' card. REAL vets don't do that, especially those that have been in wars. He's a sick puppy that's looking for the sympathy vote from us mean-spirited ex's. If you recall, the only time most of you here even knew I was in the military is when the subject of the gulf came up. I don't lord that over anyone! YOU DON'T OWE ME A THING! Nor would I, ever, make it sound like you do. Nor would ANY REAL VET that I know (and that is quite a few people)! We did our duty, as we saw it, plain and simple! We, unlike M, actually did what we promised our people that we would do. As for who earned whos freedom: It's the PEOPLE of a country that make it free, including the computer dweebs! - Never, ever, be afraid of someone like that, ok? Steve: If you are reading this, you should be unbearably ashamed of yourself! Your ego surpasses anything that I've ever experienced in human form. So much for humility... So much for M & K having any REAL affect on your life. So much for simply learning the lessons that you should have learned in boot camp! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:26:09 (EDT)
From: Sir Ated Email: None To: Jim Heller Subject: counter Edit Message: You do not know what a threat is. Leave our steven alone.He told us you were a (specwar)desk jockey.Never saw action just a nerd pencil pusher. Color is born of color I see all colors as one. What color is a living creature? Solve it if you can Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:35:07 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Sir Ated Subject: My guess is... Message: Sir Ated and steven are the same pinhead premie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:46:35 (EDT)
From: jethro Email: None To: Gerry Subject: My guess is... Message: they are certainly one in the spirit Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:55:07 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Gerry Subject: My guess is... Message: Apparently some people don't know how a block is done, guess they think it's just a matter of changing your name. hee heee Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 17:19:31 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Selene Subject: Off-topic Message: Selene: If you have Katie or Robyn's email address, would you ask them for mine so that I can send you an email? Only if you don't mind, OF COURSE! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 17:32:56 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Mike Subject: Off-topic Message: Sure. I'll write them now. I am procrastinating BIG TIME on some work I don't want to do. Hey that was one of the 'commandments' Anyone remember that one? Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today... or something. I think I have the paper with the big 5 that they passed out in my K session. well, guess that's reason number 101 I didn't make it in the cult. Although procrastinating does fog up the brain, I'd have to agree with the Rashaomi's or whoever came up with that one. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 17:39:35 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Mike Subject: Off-topic - ps Message: But if you are trying to get bumped up on the grrrdle distribution list, email won't help. Just warning you! :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 17:49:51 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Selene Subject: Off-topic - ps Message: Selene!!!! I'm shocked that you would think..... WELLLLL, I never (unfortunately). he he he he he. ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:44:55 (EDT)
From: jethro Email: None To: Sir Ated Subject: counter Edit Message: Excreta taurus cerebum wincket Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 16:53:27 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Sir Ated Subject: Oh well... Message: Sir Steve: Sorry, but you are wrong, as usual. I didn't sit behind a desk. I don't believe that you know what specwar is or who 'owns' it, do you? There are NO desk jockies in that 'department.' That's about all I want to say about the subject. - Actually, steve, I don't know why you are reacting so violently. Haven't you had enough violence for one lifetime. You claim that you fought for freedoms; like freedom-of-speech! Remember that one, Steve? Maybe not, but here's how it works: I can say what I want and you can say what you want. You can espouse your beliefs and I can espouse the fact that I think those beliefs are wrong. See? That's called freedom of speech. Threats, however, are another thing. There are laws against them. I haven't threatened you, but you have threatened Jim and Myself. When you show your repressed, violent side, you are demonstrating how little effect the 'meditation' and M have truely had on you. Additionally, threats will get you blocked from this forum, where YOU ARE permitted to say what you will about M (pro or con). - It's like I said before, Steve: You aren't likely to find a receptive audience for M's ideas, but you DO have an audience with which you can speaak your mind concerning that subject. The 'other site' doesn't afford you the opportunity to really speak your mind with people that will respond. Does that sound like freedom of speech to you? You know, not everyone here thinks that I'm such a peach. Some folks think that my participation in a couple of conflicts makes me a murderer. But, you know what? Despite the contentious nature of that particular issue, WE STILL TALK. I respect their opinions because they respect mine. They may not 'like' mine, but they do show me the respect for my ideas and thoughts. - Give respect a shot, you might be surprised by the result. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:27:46 (EDT)
From: Frank Email: None To: Steven Subject: learning more Message: Steven, My name is frank.I live in N.y. I have been watching this site for the past 3 months. I tell you, your a breath of fresh air!Listening to you do verbal battle with these folks is just bitchen! After listening to you and them fuck with each other. I fucken got to check this maharajiji guy out. I got this phone number this dude gave me.So this sounds to much.By the way, My father was in vietnam also. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:37:24 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Steve Subject: How many guys Message: Steve: How many people you got in that head of yours? The frank-character is pretty transparent, don't you think? But hey, whatever/whoever you want to be. BTW, Steve, you have regularly confused me with Jim... I'm NOT Jim. There's only one guy in my head and that's me (mike), ok? Just thought I would clarify. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:44:09 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Frank/Sir Ated/steven Subject: You jerk off Message: So, you are not only a creep and a wacko, you are also a multiple personality. You are not fooling anyone here, steven. If that's your real name. Coward, liar, asshole would be more accurate. We had a guy that used to hang around here trying to pass himself off as several different people not too long ago. He also created a cheering squad of supporters for himself. He left with his tail between his legs. The old trick of saying ''wow, I guess I'll have to check this BM guy out'' is getting pretty stale. You are not original. And I'll bet you were never in Viet Nam or in the service at all. You've lost ALL credibility. I for one, will not believe a word you say. Stick around, though. You're good for entertainment purposes. You make a convenient punching bag, stupes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:46:17 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Mike Subject: That was MY line! Message: Mike, You beat me to the punch! Oh well. Great minds think alike! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:14:49 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Selene Subject: By Thy Fruits You Shall Know Message: Yes, my sentiments exactly. I also am very creeped out by that interchange. I also have been thinking a lot about the fruits quote (which is in the Bible). There is also a passage in the Bible about throwing seeds on fertile soil rather than poor soil. My siblings & I have often used that passage ( in more secular terms) as an example of the pointlessness of throwing our good love and energy at 'poor soil'--people who are destructive and mean-spirited, who drain us & suck our life energies dry. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:31:19 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: By Thy Fruits You Shall Know Message: Helen: You are absolutely correct, IMHO. I don't know what it is that makes me want to 'save the world,' but there it is. I guess that I'm a natural crusader (and pretty darned poor at it, too). I think violence sux! I've seen enough for my next 10 lifetimes, as far as I'm concerned. One of the reasons that I knew it was time to retire from the military was that my brain had had enough of it! Kind of a 'tired' feeling, you know what I mean? It's one of the reasons that I don't talk about it much; it's such a brain drain to remember... and remember it I always will. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:42:10 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: Hey Mike Message: Nothing wrong with being a crusader. Nothing wrong with confronting violence and cowardice. Trying to save people though...it can't be done. They have to work out their own salvation, no? But I appreciate your brave heart. You, Jim, and everyone here are incredibly brave. Warriors, I'd say. I count meself proud to me in your company (as me cousin Patrick O'Connell, Fitzpatrick, O' Shamrock used to say...) How you been? You and Selene (AZ time) must both be in your respective workplaces goofin' off cause it's about 3:45 pm there,eh? Well, better to enrich your brain here than play a video game, I always say! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:51:56 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: Hey Helen! Message: Helen: Why, thank you Helen. Very kind words. It must be that good Celtic blood in ya.... :-) Uh, oh.... you found me out... Yeah, I'm goofin'. I spend alot of time these days doing the software build and maintenance on servers. So, I gets ta spend some serious time in front of monitors. When the server is busy doing what I told it to do, I can checkout what's happenin' here on the forum. It's been a pretty quiet day at work, sooooo.... I, likewise, would consider it an honor to be in the company of any ex. It takes alot of strength to break the hold that this cult had on us and our minds. But, I would say, all-in-all we haven't done so bad. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:59:50 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: Hey Mike Message: Yup I'm Irish to the bone. So you are a professional computer geek, eh?As Diz would say, I gotta get off this machine. My kid is running around in her Hallo'ween costume, dashing around the house like a wild woman Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:04:34 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Helen Subject: Irish Message: Me too. Turns out all my procrastinating today was just plain common sense. the stupid software I need to install is at microsoft.com and it refuses me every time. Which is fine with me since once it's installed I'll have to support it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:38:33 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: Yup...atsa my jobba Message: Helen: Well, then me young lass, have you kissed the blarney stone or ere ya a fair-weather celt? he he he Yeah, since my retirement I've been a professional computer geek. My major was astrophysics, but jobs are a bit scarce in that area.... he he he. Actually, it's kind of nice to be able to pursue the project of my choice in astrophysics, as opposed to whatever the 'popular' subject might be. So there are advantages to 'doing' computers and 'playing' astrophysicist.... he he he. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 17:54:22 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: Science and Nature Message: I certainly have noticed that science type jobs are definitely driven by where the research money is at! It is good that you can enjoy the best of both worlds. I have been in the parent education profession for 6 yrs, prior to that a high school & preschool teacher. Right now, though, I'm working temporarily at a health research organization assisting with an NIH/National Cancer Institute study measuring the health effects of fertility drugs (pergonal and chlomed especially). It's a sample of 12,000 women. It's so different workingwith a bunch of scientists and it is a very high tech place. It's very refreshing actually after wkg with teachers and social worker-types all my life. It is fascinating seeing all the painstaking work that goes into a study like this and working with the epidemiologists. Mike, I keep thinking you would enjoy the work of Barbara Kingsolver, even though she primarily writes novels. You have probably noticed I am an avid reader--and my Master's was in teaching high school English so literature is my thing. Kingsolver is a scientist by trade so there are a lot of references to science &, ecology in her work. Her stories are rich in the human dimensions but just as rich in the description of the southwestern landscape, and the natural world. In this documentary I saw about her, she described her process of writing her novels as thinking of a problem, forming a hypothesis to solve the problem, and seeing if the hypothesis turns out to be right. Like I said, she is a scientist through & through. Her book ANimal Dreams is one of the best books I've ever read. Can't recommend her enough. I haven't kissed the Blarney stone--been to England though. WOuld love to go to Ireland someday Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 18:25:46 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: Science and Nature Message: Helen: As soon as I'm done with Jim's two recommended books (dawkins and dennett), I'll pick it up. I can only read two books at once without getting confused as to source.... he he he. Sounds like you are doing some neat work. That is an interesting subject; especially since fertility treatment is the vogue these days. Yeah... I guess it would be nice to see what effect the treatments are having... he he he. No, seriously, it sounds like you ere a busy person out there. After watching your posts for awhile, I think you would make a wonderful teacher, no matter what the age of the students. ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 19:27:42 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: Science and Nature Message: Thank you Mike. Actually it is a little scary seeing this research. Any time you shoot people up with hormones it is a cancer risk (especially breast & ovarian), we saw that with birth control pills and with hormone replacement therapy. I don't want to scare anyone out there, the evidence is still inconclusive about the cancer connectionwith infertility drugs--this study will reveal a lot more than past ones b/c of the epidemiology and the large sample. Women's health research is an area that certainly needs a lot more attention. Ya know, they've come up with viagra but when it comes to women's health, we seem to be on the back burner. I think you will like Animal Dreams. The theme is one that is very important to me -- having a sense of 'home'. The main character is always running running running, can never put down roots, running from her painful childhood. SHe goes back to her home town, a very small town in the SOuthwest (I forget if it's NM or AZ), and her old boyfriend pops back into her life, a guy who is very comfortable with himself and whe really loves her (a couple of steamy scenes in the desert in those springs who were talking about --read them out loud to your wife, she will love them!). The book is really all about the healing power of human love. There's another plot too which revolves around some of the ecological issues in the area, a stonewashed jeans plant that is ruining the local water. Anyway, it sounds simplistic but the writing is rich and complex, very complex. She can describe a hummingbird hovering over a trumpet-vine flower for two pages and you will be mezmerized. This book and its themes were so powerful that my little sister and I wrote 9 letters back and forth to each each other about the book when we were reading it. If you get me going talking about books I am as bad as you going on about science! Take care, Mike Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:39:37 (EDT)
From: CD Email: None To: Gail Subject: I went to Miami (May) Message: >He did, indeed, tell us to stay away on May 10 of 1998. You heard some things that Maharaji said about the Internet and have created your own rumour. There happen to be a wide range of diverse opinions concerning the value of the Internet. The Internet is certainly a new communication opportunity and at the same time a sink hole. The real information content of the medium has been questioned by many people. I believe that Maharaji has presented a reserved attitude towards the potential of the Internet to be a panacea for problems. In a talk several years back he also made some reference to how bread and sliced bread had changed society but the fundamental quests of humanity had not been fulfilled. Certainly the emergence of the increased 'information' flow of the Internet can be viewed as a technical and sociological revolution. But the old questions remain: Are we really better off? Have we now found fulfillment in our lives? Regards, CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 19:58:56 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: CD Subject: I went to Miami (May) Message: Hi CD, Maybe you can put this to rest--I'm getting tired of it, too. Do you remember what he said? I think Ex's are eager to paint him anti-Internet because of the exist of this website, don't you. It does have a certain logic to it. If you do a search for him, you come to this site pretty quickly and his ugly past is exposed. This has put a lot of premies into the ex catagory and probably lost him more than a few aspirants. So I could see the logic in his telling people to stay away. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 20:37:27 (EDT)
From: Lurker Email: None To: Gerry Subject: I went to Miami (May) Message: The man does not like the internet....that his right. But I was there, and I will 100% absolutely, positively assure you he said NOTHING about this or any other web site. He has definitely said that the task of telling people about knowledge is not a job for the internet - that's his right, too, I guess. I dont know if he said that in may or some other time..... sorry to disappoint y'all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 20:52:52 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: CD and Lurker Subject: I went to Miami (May) Message: Okay folks, what DID he say? You were there, you must have an idea to what Gail is referring. Why be secretive about it? Just tell us what the 'master' said! When someone mis-quotes a passage from the Bible, I correct it; I don't get mysterious about it. Tell us what he said about the Internet and its place in the life of his 'students.' I'm sure he didn't name this site by name; that would mean that he would be acknowledging our existence and he wouldn't want to do that, but I'm sure he must have made an inference to enemies on the internet or SOMETHING of that nature. Gail isn't one to simply make this up. And we do know that his goons closed down Harlan's site and called people explaining the official stance regarding discussing Sweetie Pie on the net. Just be honest for once (that's 'wonce' for steven) and quote the ol' boy exactly if you know what he said. Set us right, if you can. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 04:23:43 (EDT)
From: op Email: None To: everybody Subject: I went to Miami and others Message: Hi folks! I don't remember M mentioning the internet in Miami this year at all. I too have searched through what he did say and don't find any reference to the web. I tend to agree that mentions about the internet would not be edited out - esp. since previous mentions were not. I find it rather mysterious that someone has such a strong recollection - are you sure you didn't hear it at another event?? He did say something at Long Beach last December (sorry, I don't remember at which session), and at Washington DC and Universal City CA in May of 97. All these times he said that he's tried to find things on the internet and finds it more of an 'information parking lot' than and information highway. That's basically it. Understandably, he doesn't want premies to visit this site. And understandably, he doesn't like the idea of aspirants visiting this site. But he's never given 'agya' to stay away. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 10:30:13 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr To: op Subject: I went to Miami and others Message: .... he finds it more of an 'information parking lot' than and information highway. And YOU, what do YOU think ? Is the Internet an information media or not? Does it enable people to communicate or not? Does it allow people to access information or not? Does it circulate information or not? Isn't it a pretty stupid statement? Medias are medias, and they are meant to circulate information by essence. Even books! magazines also could be considered static. My conclusion is that Mr Rawat says VERY stupid things, like he always did. When there is something he can't use for HIS purpose, he just says it's not worth anything. This is an egoistic and paranoid behaviour. And if you think of what he has in mind saying this, it's even worse, as it's been demonstrated here. Rawat is a moron. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 15:21:04 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: op Subject: I went to Miami and others Message: Thank you, op, for responding and pointing out the times when he did refer to the net. Instead of denying that it ever occured, you are actually clarifing things! Thanks! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 16:53:25 (EDT)
From: Lurker Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: I went to Miami and others Message: Just to Re-clarify what I said earlier - in the course of discussing ways of telling people about knowledge he mentioned something quite close to the following words... '...This is no place for the internet'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 17:37:57 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Lurker Subject: I went to Miami and others Message: '...This is no place for the internet'. What does that mean? Don't discuss K on the internet? People on the internet can't comprehend K? Don't discuss M on the internet? Do you think that M has an 'internet-positive' attitude? How do you understand M's feelings towards free speech? Thanks for making an attempt to re-clarify things, but that quote seems somewhat ambigious to me and doesn't help me understand his instructions regarding premies on the web. Regards, Michael Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 17:47:13 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: I went to Miami and others Message: Hi I think Mike pretty much said it in that lonely post at the top of the page. If M so much as *implies* something is bogus, or not cool , or silly, ridiculous, not essential, blah blah well, that's enough for the premies. their attitude will in turn change toward whatever that was. Now,I agree this is different from outright saying 'don't go there' but, he knows how to work a crowd. I'm sure he said it with just the right touch of 'agya' in there, implied or otherwise. I have to laugh when he tells his stories that have the lesson or moral of 'wealth is temporary and you can't take it with you' I remember a few.. One about him going to visit this very wealthy man who was dying. (as if he'd visit any *other* kind of premie. Yeah right, I'd be on my deathbed in my 650 sq. foot house and he'd come by. ) But it's so funny to hear that, given how he lives. I mean why don't you rub it in our faces a little more M? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 19:58:45 (EDT)
From: Lurker Email: None To: Mickey Subject: I went to Miami and others Message: I believe the context of the statement was that the task of introducing people to knowledge was not really 'internet material' - since it (the experience of knowledge)is not a matter of logic or fact, but of feeling. I know that whole paragraph is liable for derision here, but you asked - so I have duly responded (or dully responded as you may think....) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 20:05:44 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Lurker Subject: I went to Miami and others Message: I believe the context of the statement was that the task of introducing people to knowledge was not really 'internet material' - since it (the experience of knowledge)is not a matter of logic or fact, but of feeling. So he didn't understand that when we were trying to peddle And it is Divine to every household on the planet? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 02:55:01 (EDT)
From: jethro Email: None To: Jim Subject: I went to Miami and others Message: Hey Jim, Were you ever in London(UK)? Do you remember the Palace of Peace? There was an enourmous of prempal outside the building. When some of the local people complained about the eyesore, prem just laughed and said 'I'll get into people's minds any way I like'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 14:37:27 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: jethro Subject: I was at the Ally Pally Message: but I don't remember that. I do remember seeing Maharaji for the first time and trying like hell to reconcile the banality of the experience with the greater truth I 'knew', that being that he was, after all, the Lord. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 16:15:05 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: I was at the Ally Pally,me too Message: I thought I saw you there! Do you remember the miserable campground accomodations? I had a crappy sleeping bag provided by the ashram in Pittsburg and froze my ass off. The food was horrible. I missed the darshan toe sucking part, because I took a train into London and went to tourist sites, Trafalgar Square, Big Ben, etc. Also sat in the gallery and listened to Parliment debate. I guess I was a crummy devotee right from the start. I thought the Ally Pally part was boring, too. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 16:31:12 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gerry Subject: I was at the Ally Pally,me too Message: The idea of skipping darshan for the sites still -- believe it or not -- almost shocks me. Yes, Gerry, you were a terrible devotee from the start. I remember those tents... and the food. Thin, potato gruel cooked in big cauldrons in the cold, drizzling rain. Trainloads of premies singing, 'Maharaji, Maharaji, your face shines like a thousand suns, you have given us all we could ask for, peace and bliss and happiness.' A parade somewhere. Was there a rally at Trafalgar Square? Giving out tons of English Divine Times. Seeing the Holy Family and hardly understanding a word any of them said. Same with the Lard himself. You know, I haven't been back to England since then. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 16:55:13 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: I was at the Ally Pally,me too Message: Jim, I think there was some sort of a parade, but, alas, I missed that too. I remember taking the train into town from the campsite a number of times; once just to buy a rain poncho since the weather was so miserable. Didn't give out a single DT to anyone as far as I recall. Tsk tsk And to think I sold my half of my brother's and my 1940 Buick to go! Haven't been there since either. BTW, that was an elegant and completely right on post to Mel Bourne. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:20:38 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: Jim Subject: I was at the Ally Pally,me too Message: >A parade somewhere. Was there a rally at Trafalgar Square? Sure was. You saw me, didn't you? I was recollecting on that event as I visited London this last June. I had to hitchhike from San Diego to New York to get the plane to London and the Ally Pally.; You should try England again. CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 20:09:32 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Lurker Subject: I Didn't Message: Lurker: Thanks. That was a 'clear' response. Can I ask a question? It is along a slighly different line: If the experience of k is a 'feeling,' then why do aspirants have to go thru such a long process of verbal/video communications before they can receive same? It doesn't make sense to me that a written form would be less acceptable than verbal, since they are virtually identical in nature. I 'feel' as much from a written 'missive' as I do from verbal/visual. Does it make sense to you that written comms would be less 'feel-able'? And, if so, why? I'm asking for your opinion only, I'm not trying to put you on the spot. It's just that your clear response deserved a clear question and I think that I might actually get another clear response (I like clear responses). :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 02:50:42 (EDT)
From: jethro Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: I went to Miami and others Message: 'What does that mean? Don't discuss K on the internet? ....' It goes back to the old thing that K can only be spread on a 1-1 personal contact basis.......but it has now been modernised to ... 1-1 means 1 person watching 1 video(at a time) of THE 1 person who is permitted to talk about K. I think this really means that one can only receive K when one's head is firmly stuck up one's arse. jethro the Levite Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 18:53:35 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: CD Subject: To CD: I love you! Thanks Message: for telling the truth. If he hadn't mentioned it, I'd still be following him. This forum has had quite the effect upon me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 16:47:59 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: Gail Subject: To CD: I love you! Thanks Message: You're alright Gail! Fiesty and alive. I know a bit about the Internet. Most people are still hardly affected by it. Some people get lots of benefit from it and it also has drawbacks. My book list has some Internet stuff including books on its history: CDs Book List I have many more books in my library that have varying views on the Internet if you are interested. Clifford Stoll wrote a book called Silicon Snake Oil that is pretty critical of the impact of modern computer technology. You might enjoy his Cuckoos Egg book. Check out its reviews through the link on my site. The book Burn Rate gives an account of business behind the internet sites. I have 'virtually met' many interesting people through my participation in the last 2 years on this forum. Regards, CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 11:23:28 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The Life of Ole Message: Remember Charles Cameron's amazing self-characature in Who Is Guru Maharaj Ji?, the chapter called 'A rose ... something or other'? Charles describes how he learned the most profound 'lessons of the heart' by over-analyzing to the max all these nothing little comments and gestures of the then-13-year-old Lord of the Universe? Like, Maharaji picked up his fork with his left hand, instead of his right, thus completely blowing every last JesusohMary LordIcan'tbeleiveit'sreallyyouthistime concept he'd ever had. Now Charles knew that HE was the fork and Maharaji only did that for him and time stood still and he knew that for the next twent years he would be in a cult the like sof which he would be too embarrassed to discuss everafter! Well check out Ole over on the whatchimacallit page. He explains how Maharaji, by grabbing his own hand...well, you have to see for yourself. Monty Python's Life of Brian en verite or what?: 'Maharaji looked at me with no expression on his face; I could hardly believe what I saw. For a moment he reached his own hand, so that we could shake hands. I was full of frustration, because I found I just could not communicate with him. I couldn't even show him love. I was paralysed. So he chose, as he has so often done since then for all of us, to play both parts, the receiver as well as the giver. I was overwhelmed. THE DOOR THAT NEVER CLOSES Maharaji went back into his room. The other people left the corridor and the hall. I was still there fumbling with my luggage. Then his door opened and he came out. I looked at him. He looked at me. And then for a couple of minutes he fiddled with a key and said something about not being able to lock the door. He tried again and again to lock his door, came in and out, while I was standing there looking at him. At the time I didn't get the message about him not being able to lock his door, but many years later Maharaji one day asked me: 'What does your heart really want?' 'To be with you every day of my life', I blurted out without thinking. 'You see', he said, 'there is nothing you can do about it, and there is nothing I can do about it.' Twenty-six years after that day, when he wouldn't close his door on me, and when I was so embarrassed about my own inability and he kindly shook hands with me in his unique way, I can look back on an incredible journey. It started out quite dramatically, but more and more it has evolved into something very simple and gentle: Me enjoying my life. Me enjoying my life! That seemed the last possibility at that time. I was hoping for something spectacular that would blow all my problems and frustrations away in one big fireworks display and lift me up to the eternal heaven. Instead he has given me his company here on earth. And helped me to practice Knowledge every day. Thus enabling me to live life as it should be lived, doing whatever I have to do and want to do, but always feeling the presence of a very kind and loving nature, within me and without me. I have nothing more to ask for - except more.' Yes, Ole, it could easily have gone either way. Maharaji Might have blasted open the heavens and taken you with him OR he could have chosen to just hang out with you in your VCR for what we earthlings so smugly think of as a regular lifespan. He chose the latter. You know, I think I know when he made up his mind too. It was probably the last day of Millenium. Maharaji had a few hours to decide -- do I blow up the world and take Ole to heaven with all the unseen et's around here and my other premies or do I just kind of hang out? Oh my Lord, you are so merciful! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 11:37:11 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jim & Premies Subject: See? Message: Jim: Really good quote! Why can't the old premies, in particular, see how he dumbed-down our expectations by changing the promise. - That quote from Charles says it all: 'I was hoping for something spectacular that would blow all my problems and frustrations away in one big fireworks display and lift me up to the eternal heaven. Instead he has given me his company here on earth.' Charles is rationalizing the change and acting the part of an M-shill, all at the same time. What a talent! Premies: I don't give a hoot about having 'his' company on earth. He promised liberation, in the first place, and that is what I expected him to deliver. If he couldn't deliver on his original promise, then he was/is a LIAR.... PERIOD! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:15:24 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Mike Subject: See? Message: Pretty soon, if Charles is smart, he'll realize he doesn't even need M's mortal presense in this world to be happy, let alone a savior that's going to lift him up to heaven. It's amazing, how the 'relationship' premies have with Maharaji has been watered down to that of a friend, just as mortal as they are. I think what happenned, was that when M changed his stripes and became a simple meditation teacher, some premies could accept that and some couldn't, but the attachment remained for those who could. I'm speaking for myself, here. I responded favorably when M came down off of his throne. I preferred a 'friend' to a 'Lord Of The Universe'. I found 'LOTU' too daunting, too unapproachable, so when M stepped down from that throne, I warmed up further to him. I became more accepting of him. It was only a lack of 'experience' in meditation that broke my attachment to him. If I had been having rewarding experiences in meditation, I don't know where I would stand with M today. I'm certain it would have been much more difficult, if not impossible, to break free. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:02:43 (EDT)
From: steven Email: None To: Jim Subject: The Life of Ole Message: Jim heller,wonse your eyes so bright. You stood with us in toronto. You stood with us on the west coast. Your eyes so bright. Your smile so wide with light. We lived together you and I. Practicing was very important then. Then you you ran to the laws of man. Became such a scholar of our laws. Saw the hatred.Saw the goodness.Lost some friends. I looked at you from a distance a short while back. Your face so drawn. What happen to those beaming eyes? What happen to that smile? The court rooms have no smiles do they? Only coldness.And judjements.And Contempt. Its to bad they do not have as much mercy on man as the master does. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:33:39 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: steven Subject: You lunatic Message: Man, are you a fucking creep. What are you are you, you sick pathetic loser? Some sort of a stalker or something? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:14:12 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: To Jim: Re: Steve Lunatic Message: This guy is right out of Dark Side of Moon. He's listened to Pink Floyd one time too many. Have you figured out who this lunatic is yet? I hate to ask you this, but could you please listen to the last day's event (morning, May 10, 1998) from Miami once again, really carefully. I do believe that is where the net reference is. Otherwise, is has been edited out of the videos. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 20:19:01 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: Nope, not there Message: Gail, I DID listen. Watched the thing with Laurie, looking especially for that reference but it wasn't there. Hmmm, wonder what that means. ..... Naw, I give up. I have no idea why that comment wasn't in the video when you think you heard him say it. You're not LOSING YOUR MIND are you, Gail? What is this? Leave the true master for a few months and your brain starts to go like, well, like so many ROTTEN VEGETABLES. Holy shit! I've heard of this happening! Really, you should CONTACT AN INSTRUCTOR IMMEDIATELY and not just any instructor. You need a very experienced one -- someone like the great Mahatma Gurucharanand himself. Only he can prescribe exactly what video you should watch in your moment of crisis, this dark night of your soul. Best of luck! P.S. as for steven, I kind of like the guy. Too bad he's going to be blocked as soon as Katie or Brian reads his threat. Now I'll never know who he was (although he most definitely knows me!). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 12:08:41 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Jim Subject: Nope, not there Message: Don't fret Jim. There will be another one, another clone, coming along any minute now. I feel bad I started the whole thing, in a way. I did want to know why people kept saying M didn't want premies on the net / or maybe it was on ex-prmie.org so I just wanted to know when that was noted. Sorry I put you and Gail to work, I didn't even know it was Gail who originally stated this. And the final answer tells more than a definitive one would have, in lots of ways. It says, 'premies say m didn't say it, or maybe he implied it, or maybe this or that', it's the usual interpretations and muddled bs. What did I expect? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:27:06 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: A likely Story Message: I don't know about you guys, but my bullshit detector was screaming when I read Daniela Bravura's story on The LiarsClub.Org website. To make a long and boring story short, she says that while driving in London traffic for the first time, they got lost looking for the campgrounds for Guru Puja '73. They were driving around, hopelessly lost, according to her and just happened to stumble on to the street, nay, the very house where the BM was staying. AND she (what grace!) got to go into the garden and meet HIM!!!! All by accident. Yeah, right. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:39:58 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Gerry Subject: A likely Story Message: Hey Gerry Why not ask the Guru of Lies? He should know. Right Mike? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 12:53:59 (EDT)
From: Guru of Lies Email: None To: Selene Subject: A likely Story Message: Selene & Gerry: I've come to shine a light upon the lies of (wo)men. How astute and wise you two have become. Of you I am justifiably proud. In answer to your honest and humble query, MY bullshit-meter is FULLY pegged at this very moment! - Thus spake the Guru of Lies! he he he he. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 13:08:50 (EDT)
From: eb Email: None To: Jim Subject: The Life of Ole Message: Jim wrote: by over-analyzing to the max all these nothing little comments and gestures of the then-13-year-old Lord of the Universe? As a child in the Mormon church, I grew up hearing stories intended to prove the veracity of the tenets of the LDS Church. As a premie, I remember spending night after night in Satsang listening to innocuous events interpreted as miracles proving our Lord's holiness. And just this past weekend I got to hear a few new age hooey hooeys attributing some rather benign coincidences to spirit. I burned out on trying to figure it all out a few years ago (about the time 3 of my kids were teenagers). Instead I've opted to avoid anymore cults and hear as much live music as possible. With love, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 17:43:33 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: eb Subject: The Life of Ole Message: HA! Perhaps that's what these people close to GM need--a teenager to raise. As for all manner of new age mind trips--oops! That was my channeler on the phone! She, my astrologer, and my past life regressor are doing a Feng Shui demonstration at the Unity Church so I gotta run! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 17:54:21 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Helen Subject: The Life of Ole Message: God, you just described the woman I share an office with. and she was just on the phone. hmmm..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:32:46 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Selene Subject: The Life of Ole Message: I was astral projecting myself into her body (; Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:40:18 (EDT)
From: eb to Helen and Selene Email: None To: Mi Compadres Subject: That is just so Cosmic!!! NT Message: NT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 18:45:30 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: eb Subject: That is just so Cosmic!!! NT Message: ohmiGod, my aura is greenish-blue with happiness! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:36:04 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: eb Subject: The Life of Ole Message: Instead I've opted to avoid anymore cults and hear as much live music as possible. You got that right eb! We went to see The Tragically Hip in concert (dance concert) last night. It was so therapeautic. It was funny, after they left the first time and the audience wanted them back, people kept clapping and lighting lighters, etc All I could think of is how the premies do that with M, it's the same thing every time, he leaves the stage, they cheer and clap forever, he comes back, does a 2 second tamed down version of his little dance, and then off in his jet and away from the riff raff. I had to laugh, because here I was last night really having a good time and that image came to mind and, honestly, I got more endorphins going from the Tragically Hip than I EVER did watching that other 'event'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 10:07:25 (EDT)
From: RR Email: None To: Jim Subject: Is this the Same Ole? Message: This must be the same Ole who, last summer, was planning to leave his wife (recovering from cancer) and son, in Denmark, to go and live at the bottom of the hill in Malibu, so he could hang out with the Lord of the Universe in his $40,000,000 mansion. Or am I mistaken? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |