Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 27 | |
From: Oct 20, 1998 |
To: Nov 4, 1998 |
Page: 3 Of: 5 |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 17:09:39 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Throw away your mind Message: Henry Reif just posted what Maharaji said to some Japanese fish before he threw them on the grill: He told the audience that Knowledge cannot be captured by intellect. He spoke of that part of our being that cannot be comprehended, only felt. He used the image of a garden and the way the parts of the garden co-exist. He challenged people not to be alienated from the garden of life: not to photograph it, not to judge it, not to try to change it, but rather to allow yourself to be assimilated into it just like the elements. He described the process which aspirants go through in preparation for Knowledge: often people reach a broad chasm in their lives; they know what they want is on the other side. Some say the chasm cannot be crossed; others maintain there is a bridge somewhere just beyond view. Still others say: 'Let's build a bridge.' But then someone comes along who says: 'Fly, take the impossible step and fly across this chasm, freeing yourself of all the weights of ideas, expectations and concepts.' Ah, the deceit! 'Capturing with the intellect'. I guess that's what he calls thinking or understanding something. Look, I like sex. Who doesn't? (Besides Arthur Chapelle and his closet, anti-sexual friend, Gerry). I'm also interested in sex, where it comes from, how it evolved, even what people do. You know. But does that mean that I've tried to 'capture it with my intellect'? Hardly. Give unto Caeser, right? There's a place for understanding in life. Intellectual understanding. Consider Maharaji's father. He goes on and on explaining aspects of what he belies to be spiritual realities, conditions of the 'soul', the path to 'enlightenment' and all that. Personally, I tihnk he's full of shit on all of it but that's not the point. The point is that even this so-called Knowledge can be placed in somje sort of mental context. Indeed, if you look at the Indian background stuff on JM's page you'll find a whole level of context, that of the competing Indian religious hegemonies battling for turf over the past couple of centuries or longer. If Maharjai thinks his father was full of shit, pontificating about all this dry, irrelevant 'intellectual' stuff, why hasn't he ever said so? Funny, I thought he worshipped Shri Hans as his master or something. Then there's the scientific and psychological contexts. When he thought he could exploit all sorts of pseudoscience mumbo jumbo, like in the book Who Is Guru Maharaj Ji?, Maharaji allowed his premies to work up all sorts of ideas like the pineal gland is the third eye, or the 'word' follows the perfect sine wave. Unfortunatley for him, all that stuff looks pretty naive and childish in the light of day and Maharaji is too cowardly to ever admit that he once supported such speculation. What Maharaji's doing here is so patently ugly. Sure, he tells his suckers, you can still use your mind in life. 'Just remember, my trip is magical. You bring your mind anywhere around IT and you're going to spoil everything.' You've got to be pretty desperate and naive to fall for such stupidity. But then people are, aren't they? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 18:08:37 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Throw away your mind Message: You've got to be pretty desperate and naive to fall for such stupidity. But then people are, aren't they? I guess you sure were for at least eight years, anyway. And you didn't have sex for all those years, I guess that WOULD make you an expert on who's anti sexual. :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 00:01:40 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: It's the bliss, Jim Message: I'm telling you Jim, people are hungry for that bliss sandwich & he serves it up Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 00:29:39 (EDT)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Jim Subject: More insidious philosophy Message: He challenged people not to be alienated from the garden of life: not to photograph it, not to judge it, not to try to change it, but rather to allow yourself to be assimilated into it just like the elements. Maharaji means assimilated into his cult. He knows nothing about 'the garden of life' since he has lived a very different life from the vast majority of ordinary people. Thankfully, less and less people in the world are listening to him these days. Interesting that I watched a TV programme the other night all about the large Hindu ethnic population who live in the UK. I used to know a lot of them in Leicester and Coventry. Their trip is NOTHING like Maharaji's trip. They're all into having a real good time in their communities, having parties, eating too much and wearing colourful clothes. They're a friendly bunch and I wouldn't call Maharaji's religion normal Hinduism. Maharaji has taken some old fundamental Hinduism and added his own philosophy and created a monster cult. Anyone who gets into his trip is in for a heavy time if they get past the superficialities and actually try to practise what Maharaji preaches. Even taking him seriously is dangerous, in my opinion. He is one of the great dangers; i.e. an ignorant person who is able to make believe that he has some knowledge. Of those who listen to him, only a tiny fraction ever stay and follow him. He is no messiah. A wrecker of lives and a fucker of minds. The other David's comment about Maharaji's anger at having his mala pinched, is a good indication of his true character. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 11:42:14 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Sir D Subject: More insidious philosophy Message: Well said (as usual), Sir D Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 09:52:54 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Helen Subject: MJ is giving K by video now. Message: I guess he's too busy to make it to South America. Check this out. This whole message breaks my heart. It could be me: Name: Silvia Mohedsi Location: Buenos Aires - Argentina Email: kam@cvtci.com.ar Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 22:50:25 (EDT) Message: My beloved Master: I received Knowledge recently, on september 20th 1998 in Buenos Aires. Even though you were not fisically at the Knowledge session I felt you were there with me. Last year I had such a strong desire to see you that when I knew you were going to be at Coliseum Theatre in Buenos Aires, I got a ticket to get in. It was an event just for premies, so when somebody saw me at the queue, he recognized me as an aspirant and didn't let me in. I felt very sad and couldn't stop crying but I accepted it and since then my thirst got much stronger. I thank you so much for this wonderful gift and I expect you to come very soon to Argentina. I hope not to cry because of sadness this time but because of joy. A big kiss and a hug. And come to La Tierra and let's have a 7 days event for all the premies of the world!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:03:01 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Gail Subject: MJ forever! Message: That's great news!!!!!! M has finally achioeved his dream: he's virtually immortal, and he's going to give k forever ..... that makes me sick! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:22:19 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Now tell me.... Message: What is it that a 'video' K-session gives, in terms of personal intimacy, that the internet does not? Will someone please explain this to me? Why doesn't he just do online K-sessions. You give him your visa card number and he dispenses the ultimate medicine.... made just for you (of course it is....right)! Come on M, get with the times and become just as impersonal as you possibly can! It's the thing to do, ya know! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:20:39 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Gail Subject: MJ is giving K by video now. Message: I feel for this poor person, but I don't think that the message states that he recieved K via video; there was probably an instructor or Mahatma or whoever teaching the techniques. I can't believe that he would actually do it via video as that destroys the whole concept that it must be under the direction of the PM of the time. Sweetie Pie is a moron in many ways, but he isn't THAT stupid. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 17:11:46 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: MJ is giving K by video now. Message: I remember op said some time ago, that when M wasn't able to be at the knowledge session, a video WAS used, but that there were also instructors in the room as well. Actually, I think there are instructors in the room when M IS physically there as well!! I remember telling op I was surprised you could receive knowledge from a video, when all the laying on of hands, etc. was SO important when I received knowledge, but it didn't seem to phase her. On a related topic, I was told by a premie, who has been around as long as I was, that Maharaji kind of spaced out in the mid-80s, but, in this premie's opinion, he started to get it together again, get re-focused, etc., when he started revealing knowledge himself. I guess that started some time in the late 80s or early 90s. I thought I would mention this to see if anyone has an opinion about this. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 18:07:26 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: JW Subject: More info about video K Message: I have seen a video where MJ demonstrates the techniques. It was at a K session a few years ago. He fired his instructors (except a few) in 1986-87. He had a series of K reviews in the US. That's when he changed stuff from practising light, music, holy name and nectar to techniques 1-4. That is also when he told us to stop doing #3 and 4 (holy name and nectar) throughout the day. He said that we didn't need to be afraid of the world--just formally practice twice a day. Then he changed it to a minimum of one hour per day. I went to the one in Rye Town, NY. He separated the group into three. He did the review three times so that it could be more intimate. My friend said that he stood in front of me for quite a while. I should have asked for his autograph but I was too afraid to open my eyes and look at the Lord so close (I knew someone was standing in front of me though). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 18:25:47 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Gail Subject: More info about video K Message: Well, I must say that I am really surprised that they use a video to 'reveal knowledge' now. I was told that the laying on of hands, the squeezing of one's eyeballs by the Mahatma (or, of course, Sweetie Pie himself) was what made it all work. It was inferred that there was a transmission of power at that moment (shades of Apostolic Succession!), similar to what was signified when my bishop and the priests laid hands on me at my ordination. If Sweetie Pie is giving K through videos, he actually becomes less important to the process. They must be using that new 'guru's grace' chip in the VCR's and T.V.s! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 18:34:01 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: More info about video K Message: It's changed. Nobody touches anybody nowadays. Ususally, MJ demonstrates the technique and he is flashed up on video screens for all to see. If someone doesn't understand, (s)he will be told by the helping instructors. I guess he just had to use the video for S.A. They don't rate (not enough $$$). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 18:36:39 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: The chip Message: Mickey: Yeah, the code name for the chip is 'Brain Warp.' Not to be confused with os/2 warp. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:43:53 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Gail Subject: More info about video K-Gail Message: Gail, I am SO glad you are on the forum. You have a unique perspective because you were involved way back when, but also involved recently. Anyway, thanks for keeping everyone straight (informed) around here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 14:12:32 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Gail Subject: Me too Message: Hey, I guess she's having an experience. Seems like the experience is real, so it makes it easy to dismiss all the doubts, don't it? I mean, all we have is our experience. I shudder at the thought of my life if I had gotten sucked back into this again. Who knows, Gail, I could have if it weren't for this website. A friend of mine keeps giving me satsang and everytime a little piece of me would go 'Gee, it was kinda fun, wasn't it?' even though the rest of me would say 'DON'T GO THERE!!!! GET AWAY NOW!!! TURN BACK!!' Gail, I was floored by that post you wrote about Marolyn saying that GM used to tell her the carpet was blue when it was red in order to get her to surrender. I mean wasn't there a Hitchcock movie called 'Gaslight' about that very thing? It sends chills up my spine. No wonder Marolyn and GM are estranged. Did she get fed up with him, or is she still living large off of the premies, too? Or maybe both. Jeeze. Do you know anything about the kids? Can you imagine how screwed up they must be? Talk about a dysfunctional family!!! Also, that was very interesting how you said a professional said you were like living like a Prisoner of War. I had a lot of therapy to help me out of this thing. It really helped me a lot. I hope you are doing well. Your posts sound very strong, there's nothing wrong with your thinking, girl! You're thinking on all cylinders. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 18:42:41 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Helen Subject: Me too Message: Thanks, Helen. MJ's family is still with him although nothing is heard from Hansia or Amar. Premlata and Dayalata are in the family business. They both work at Visions editing MJ's satsang. Daya has a good voice and has joined in on the last few CDs. Daya's boyfriend (also a musician) lives at the guest house. He also sings and performs live and on CD. Premlata (Wadie Sue) sang one reggae song, but she's not as talented. Premlata (vine of love) has received K recently. They all profit from the family business. MJ was quick to tell us about the vehicles he bought the kids for their 16th birthdays. They've got everything--except truth. It's probably too late for a reality check for the kids. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 23:59:28 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Gail Subject: Me too Message: I'm sure it will unravel at some point for those kids or at least for some of them. Queen Elizabeth couldn't keep a lid on the fact that everything wasn't perfect with the royal family, and Linda Tripp said to Monica 'talk into my lapel'. Reality will bust those kids wide open, trust me on this. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 10:43:24 (EDT)
From: seymour Email: seymour_t@rocketmail.com To: Everyone Subject: A gift forever ? - to Steven Message: This is a response to Steven who posted last week that he knew a nun who was devout all her life until, when she was 85 she had severe illness and.. 'Couldn't chant or move her fingers or read' I presume that this meant that she could not practice her religion as you say 'One minute stroke and she forgot her whole life.Sorry dear I need something that doesn't end' But how can you think that you would not forget your knowledge techniques if you were struck down with alzhiemers or any other mental disease. Even if you lost you hands you could not practice, or your tongue. I suppose you could always breathe but you would not be thanking M for the gift. If you did not even remember what happened a few minutes ago you would not even know that your guru existed. Read the recent book by Iris Murdoch's husband and try telling me that she, or anyone who has a similar unfortunate illness, could remember how to meditate or pray or practice any 'technique' whatsoever. She cannot even remember how to get dressed or her husband's name. There are many who cannot even remember their own names. It is certainly debateable whether the practice of knowledge has any value, I know that any premie will say that it is the greatest gift, but those techniques are just some techniques and it is a mistake to place them on some sort of mystic pedestal assuming that they are forever. Just look at all us ex-premies, even if we wanted to practice and thought that we remembered how, I think some of us have missed a few knowledge reviews and would be probably doing it all wrong. Or would you just say that we are all doomed by our own rejection of the knowledge? If you are still out there, Steven (or any other premie) I would like to hear what you interpretaion of 'knowledge' is. Cheers Seymour Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 10:58:54 (EDT)
From: seymour Email: None To: seymour Subject: A gift forever ? - to Steven Message: Oops, I just read that Steven has been a naughty boy and is barred. That's what comes of being a week or two behind with this forum. Oh well... back to last week. I'll be back to this point on the forum in about two weeks. Cheers S Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 12:35:39 (EDT)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: seymour Subject: A gift forever ? - to Steven Message: Following and concentrating on the breath is a form of relaxation therapy. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with Maharaji or any spiritual stuff. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 11:02:13 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: seymour Subject: Iris Murdoch has Alzhiemer's? Message: Iris Murdoch has alzhiemer's? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 17:59:27 (EDT)
From: seymour Email: None To: Helen Subject: Murdoch has Alzhiemer's? Message: I'm afraid so, Helen. Apparently she could not even understand the reviews for her last book, or even remember that she wrote it. What I read of her husband's book was sad but there was a certain courage and human warmth in the way he stood by her. If only everyone could care a little more about each other rather than God then I think this life would be much more tolerable. After all if God is up there in his heaven he does not need the likes of us worshipping him - especially when there is so much suffering down here. Another author that I am a fan of is Kurt Vonnegut who is in his 80's and just wrote his last book 'TIMEQUAKE' which I highly recommend. In it he describes his humanist philosophy.... 'Humanists try to behave decently and honorably without any expectation of rewards or punishments in an afterlife. The creator of the Universe has been to us unknowable so far. We serve as well as we can the highest abstraction of which we have some understanding, which is our community.' I tend to agree. Cheers Seymour Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 22:15:20 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: seymour Subject: Murdoch has Alzhiemer's? Message: Dear Seymour, If only everyone could care a little more about each other rather than God then I think this life would be much more tolerable. Now that is it isn't it. Humanisim, isn't that something Buddists believe in? Simple and logical, that is what rings true for me most of the time. Thanks, Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 23:16:48 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: seymour Subject: Murdoch has Alzhiemer's? Message: Thanks. What a great quote. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 16:33:56 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: seymour Subject: A quote for a quote Message: When asked to summarize Judaism, Rabbi Hillel said, 'Don't do unto others what you would not want done to you. All else is commentary. Now go study.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 12:06:11 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: seymour Subject: Great quote, Seemore! ;-) Message: Seymour: you should change your name to 'seemore,' it fits! :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 16:08:38 (EST)
From: seymour Email: None To: Mike Subject: Great quote, Seemore! ;-) Message: Thanks for the response. I had meant to post again on the weekend but there was no time. Robyn,as far as humanism goes I think it started in 18th Century France ( the age of 'enlightenment'?) as an alternative to the dominance of religion and as a result of the scientific discoveries that were being made at the time. It made a stand against superstition and probably went a bit too far in the direction of the intellect but I think it was a good foundation for the freethinkers of today. I am still learning about it all but it can't be bad to be in the same club as Shakespeare, Newton and many others who have helped us to evolve and move closer to the discovery of the truth about our situation on this planet. Being in the quoting mood I must repeat some of the things that you have said, Mike... Ignorance isn't bliss! 'picking something apart' to learn how it works is bad? That somehow by removing the ignorance-factor, the mystique will be gone, too? knowing how something works deepens my true appreciation for that thing I couldn't agree more, analysis and investigation only help our appreciation and in no way take away the magic of something. You still get the buzz - and if the buzz depends on not understanding its not worth having .Also 'Feelings are just that: FEELINGS. They will not correct the ills of this world. Proper and clear-headed thinking, with a good dose of compassion, is what will fix it. ' You seem to be a true humanist Mike. Just because we make the effort to study, discuss, examine etc. does not take the fun out of life, or the heartfelt feeling that we are all in the same boat so lets try our best to get through it with a little help from our friends. I still believe that Love makes the world go round but you gotta have a few creature comforts and a bit of understanding to be in the mood for it. It's when we set up something that separates us from others are not willing to defend beliefs with rational dialogue that we get on the wrong track. Sir D, what you say is the truth and well put, and thanks for the quote Helen. Speak to y'all again soon Seymour Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 09:43:47 (EDT)
From: Web Watcher Email: do_not_panic@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Don't forget this Maharaji Message: According to Bruce, Maharaji is encouraging premies to visit the enjoyinglife web site. Now that's hardly a surprise is it? But what does Maharaji think about the other (uncensored) premie web site and the sincere messages from his premies and aspirants there? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 12:29:18 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Web Watcher Subject: Don't forget this Maharaji Message: Geez, David you don't miss a chance at plugging your site, do you? :-) I'm telling ya all again, the BM is gonna come out big time on the 'Net. Mark my words. And it will have all the features I mentioned earlier. (Well, maybe not the undies.) There will be some sort of membership (and, of course, the requisite fees) which will require a password to the juicier parts of the site. Premies will pay and pay and pay. The public part of the site will be aimed at attracting new suckers, I mean aspirants and will be composed of all the revisionist knowledge lite drivel. The BM won't even have to get off his couch, much less fire up his jet. Ah technology! And then we explode the truth bomb... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 13:00:05 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Gerry Subject: Don't forget this Maharaji Message: How about utilising the premium rate telephone lines. Then a premie can phone up and pay $2 per minute to listen to Maharaji's latest message with of course a long intro at the beginning saying that the caller must be over eighteen and giving other numbers to ring with 'even stronger' content. Perhaps in the end Maharaji will offer live 1 to 1 phone chats. I can just imagine it; 'And now I'm taking my mala off and putting on my Krishna crown. Do you think it suits me, dear premie?' 'Oh yes, yes, yes Maharaji. What bliss! Oh oh oh, yes, yes, yes... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 22:01:11 (EDT)
From: DV Email: mala To: Sir David Subject: Don't forget this Maharaji Message: Speaking of malas- I swiped the first one 'ever worn by M in the West'(Philly-late 70's) from the refrigerator at the residence. They finally tracked it down and I had to give it back(after I ate some of it). Later, I saw it on some premies altar dresser top at the broad ripple and mentioned the incident. She told me M had some things to say about the person who took it, but then she decided not to tell me what he said. Oh well, the Lord of the Universe laid a curse on me, what else is new... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 19:43:39 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: DV Subject: In the fridge??? Message: What the hell did he keep his mala in the fridge for? Was it to keep the flowers on it fresh or something? I forget now but I vaguely remember the mala was a sort of string vest affair with flowers on it. Although once I remember he wore one which seemed to be made out of pearls or something. Anyway, as a Knight of the Realm I do hereby grant you the title of 'DV the Brave' for pinching Maharaji's mala. How audacious and how splendid! I thought he looked bloody awful in it so I think you were doing a service to humanity. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 13:25:24 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Web Watcher Subject: Bad move, Maharaji! Message: Well you've done it now, oh Lord. By finally coming out in favour of the EnjoyEnjoyEatEat! website, you've allowed premies to talk again. It's only a matter of time before they start saying the wrong stuff. Only this time they're saying it where the whole world could read it (that is, if anyone actually cares about your funny, little cult). Sure, now all that you can find is safe, tepid nothingness, but what if the premies actually start their much-awaited Conversation page? It's either going to be so censored that, over time, even your premies will be ashamed of that fact or it will be a hornet's nest of unwanted thought and inquiry. Give it time, give it a couple fo years if necessary. Face it, fella, smart cults just don't let their members discuss things freely. And then ther's the problem of more and more premies turning or referring to the site. Tell me that whatever new people you get won't find the ex site too? Do you really think people are so gullible that they won't want answers to some of the stuff we question here? Hey, maybe we're not quite doing it right. Maybe WE need to refine our presentation. Who knows? These things have their own ways of evolving over time. The point is, though, that you no longer control all the information cards. You're sharing the stage, whether you like it or not, with people who've escaped your cult and know you a little better than you might know yourself. Yeah, I'm beginning to think that Memorial page is a good idea. What do you think, Maharaji? Should we ask the families of people who flipped out or killed themselves because of your toxic empty bullshit or should we just do it? Please, oh Lord, give us a sign. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 22:36:14 (EDT)
From: david m Email: None To: Jim Subject: Bad move, Maharaji! Message: Hey Jim... There Must be something fishy....Im sticking with the past few posts.theres money to be made ....because to me this is all about $$$...always has been eahh,....,remember the jewels in india...later dave Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:09:55 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Shri Maharaji's words online Message: Shri Maharaji's own words finally online! The Goal of Human Life : 'In human form, a man not only enjoys or suffers the fruits of actions performed in egoism and without devotion in previous lives' - 'God realization is the only goal of human life...Material prosperity in its many forms can never provide constant satisfaction' - 'Realization of this divine light and Knowledge of the Holy Name brings love for God - and from love for God will come selfless service to Him and obedience to His commands' - 'It must be clearly understood that only He who can bestow God-vision instantaneously within oneself is the Satguru of the time, and no one else. In reality, He is God incarnate' - 'Dedicate body, mind, speech, and all actions to the Satguru, which will then give rise to Bhakti, the devotional source of all happiness and peace.' Give Us this Day our Daily Breath : 'Can you imagine how happy you would feel if you were to concentrate on God, who is truly the consciousness of Bliss? But you attach your mind to His creation instead.' - ''In all the three worlds, none is greater than Satguru. Even the mighty Creator is quite unable to function before Him. His Will is what happens. Let us adore Him.' - 'Prostrate yourself before the True, and serve Them with a guileless heart. When They are pleased, They will impart the Knowledge of the Truth to you.' Indestructible, Ambrosial, Holy and True : 'One who does not listen to satsang attentively talks like a crow, without understanding. But if he listens to it attentively, and understands the Knowledge, he gets rid of crow-like talking and begins to speak sweetly like a cuckoo.' - 'If you put milk mixed with water in a vessel, a heron will either drink it or leave it, but a swan will drink the milk only and leave the water. Similarly after listening to satsang attentively a man with a heron's nature receives the essence-like milk and leaves an insubstantial thing like water. Nobody should be surprised to hear this because the glory of Satsang is not hidden.' - 'Although one may be a king, or whatever one is doing, all is meant for the belly. Like swine all are roaming here and there for pleasure and have forgotten God.' - 'You may acquire wealth worth millions and billions and rule an empire which extends from where the sun rises to where it sets; but of what use are these transitory possessions?' The Meaning of Religion : 'Peace is liked and accepted by all, but peace is of two kinds - external and internal. The first one is temporary, but the second is permanent. Though temporary peace is available from food, clothing and shelter, internal suffering is not conquered by these things.' - 'People of two beliefs live in the world. Christians and Muslims do not believe in rebirth. They believe that the soul is enclosed in the grave. The other group believes in rebirth amongst the 8.4 million species.' - 'Religion means to know one's Master.' - 'The people whose only aim is to enjoy sensual pleasures like a swine, consider salvation insignificant, and even risk their lives for the sake of attaining worldly pleasures.' - ' The religion of man is to see the Divine Light. Up to this time only human beings have seen it and in future also only human beings will see it There is no difference between a man who is satisfied with seeing the three types of external light and a dog or a donkey.' Remembrance is the Unbreakable Devotion : 'In all the activity the world is engaged in today, there is no peace or pleasure.' - 'The source of happiness, the source of peace, is devotion to God. Everyone today has devotion, but they place their devotion in false things.' - 'By meditating upon the very nails of the Feet of Shri Guru Maharaj Ji, the divine eyes of the heart are opened and the darkness of ignorance is ended' - 'There are countless blessings for Shri Guru Maharaj Ji, who turned me into God from a man in a second.' How to Save Mankind from Extinction : 'Man can be cured of his warring tendencies by infusing his mind with the vision of God. This will kill the germs of man's warring tendencies and completely change his outlook.' - 'It is the Satguru who is responsible for the maintenance and control of the universe.' - 'The brotherhood of man can only be established by accepting the Fatherhood of God.' The Real Shrine : 'A human being is like that king, mind is like the elephant, attachment is the wine. With these, a person comes to see the world. Here, mind has thrown the human being down into the ditch of rebirth. The being has been held by a very thin root which is being eaten away by the rats of day and night. As soon as life comes to an end, the human being will go to the cycle of rebirth, where he will have to face various sorts of miseries that arise due to lust, anger, greed, attachment and ego. The poor being hopes that he will get bliss some day, but he doesn't get it. Thus, his life comes to an end, and he supposedly experiences various types of sufferings by entering the cycle of rebirth. Beings can get rid of these vicious elements, that cause them miseries only during human life.' Satsang and the Thief : 'The nature of a man is changed from a heron's nature to a swan's nature by attending satsang.' - 'The world is made up of matter and spirit, virtues and vices. But saints, similar to the swan, retain the essence, the milk, and reject the useless objects which lead to deterioration. There is happiness and miseries, virtues and sins, high and low in this world, but saints take virtues only.' - 'Even if one listens to satsang by mistake, he will get a great benefit thereby.' Learn more about Knowledge at: Divine Light - Shri Hans Ji Maharaj - Special Internet Issue Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:52:32 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Out of the mouth of Hans Message: JM: The following quote just about says it all: 'It must be clearly understood that only He who can bestow God-vision instantaneously within oneself is the Satguru of the time, and no one else.'...... M DIDN'T, SO HE ISN'T! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 13:25:11 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Mike Subject: Exactly (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 16:24:35 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Thanks so much, JM Message: JM, This is really valuable work you're doing. On behalf of a whole army of people (sorry, I'm imitating Keith a bit here)... no seriously, I really want to thank you again. Anyone with half a brain understands that Maharaji got his trip from his dad whom, to this day, he claims to revere as a 'Master.' Thus either Shri Hans was right about this stuff, in which case all Maharaji's knowledge lite is a bogus trap door over a deep, dark hole awaiting all sentient beings, or Shri Hans was wrong, in which case, Maharaji should cut the crap and publically distance himself from his father's antiquated religiosity. Thanks again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 03:10:32 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jim Subject: Thanks so much, JM Message: Hey, I'm a bit embarrassed now ... Thank you for your comments. I've been fed with this stuff, too, as well as some I still have in stock for the coming pages: Maharaji's early days satsangs! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 08:36:50 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: You're such a sweetie, JM (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 09:36:35 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: JM Subject: Thanks so much, JM Message: Yes, thank you, JM. After reading all the posts here over the past few weeks it is very interesting to read the words straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. I am still trying to figure out if it was love I felt for GM or devotion or what? What button did he push in my brain that I felt all that love?--I did feel something. My heart told me one thing, my brain another. As Diz said, 'I just can't be cut into pieces like that.' Guess I'm still a little confused even though, technically I walked away fm this trip 14 years ago. AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 12:40:24 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Helen Subject: A good question Message: What button did he push in my brain that I felt all that love? This is an excellent question and well worth further investigation, in my opinion. What exactly was going on here? Wouldn't it be great if we could ''push the button'' ourselves and enter this lovely state at will with no cultic strings attached? I'm sure it is possible, and probably easy, even. Anybody have any theories? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 16:05:06 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Gerry Subject: A good question Message: Hey Gerry, Read Jim's post from today (his reply to Wm.) called 'What IS agya anyway?' Jim can push the same button in our brains! When we need a bliss fix Jim can give a satsang parody and take us to that same place! It's not some kind of magical power GM is imbued with. It's a trick. Boy do I feel like a biscuit. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 11:36:26 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: A good question Message: Helen: Ah, but we were all such good little 'biscuits.' I think Gerry is right, we should find out what that 'magic' button is for two really good reasons: (1) So we can push it ourselves, when we feel like it and (2) so we know when someone else is trying to manipulate us by pushing that button. - For me, as you may already know, 'natural scenes' push my button BIG TIME! Fortunately, 'natural scenes' cannot manipulate me, so I'm safe from a natural-scenes-guru. I'm the only one that fully understands what and how they do this to me. The only part I'm not sure of is the 'why' part. One thing is for sure, when I let M in the picture (in my earlier days) the whole feeling would disappear. It was a total bummer thinking about M when I was in nature. Should have been a clue, right? I can tell you though, that if I want my mind to 'slow down' a bit and just enjoy the AWE of it all, all I have to do is go somewhere REALLY DARK and look at the sky. The immensity of it really works for me. It is never boring to me, either. I guess part of it is the 'true' feeling of humility (not the fake kind that M champions). - It sure would be great to understand 'why' this happens, though. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:13:31 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: A good question Message: Nature does it for me too, Mike. Can't get enough of hiking, camping, etc. And with the leaves all turning now--Yahoo! It's gorgeous. The Leonid meteor shower is coming up too. Why is it that that beautiful feeling of observing, smelling, being part of the wild beauty around us was deadened by the K experience? because nature involves our senses, those evil material senses we were supposed to transcend. What a load of crap. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:42:28 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: A good question Message: Helen: You are SO right! Those nasty, evil, depraved and corruptible senses are NOT TO BE TRUSTED! After all, they can only perceive the 'lila,' not the REAL knowledge (which, of course, is only a 'feeling.') What a crock! - BTW, I haven't been talking about the leonids because the jury is still out on whether it will be a shower or a storm this year. I ACTUALLY SAW the storm in 1966. It was unbelievable. Everywhere I looked there were countless trails. I still remember it to this day because it was the single most important event that launched me into astrophysics. What a light-show! I hope it happens again this year. Seeing THAT twice in one lifetime would be unbelievable (although North America isn't going to be the best). To all the premies: NO, it's NOT a shower of M's grace, it's just a comet that broke up a while back! (ONLY JOKING.... JEEZ!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 22:27:55 (EDT)
From: Laura Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Shri Maharaji's words online Message: Dear Jean-Michel, I like the words you've written. They sound like satsang. Actually, I love the words you've written. They speak to a place inside of me that wants God. If GMJ were God incarnate or the giver of true peace and knowledge then I would be one of the very first in line to prostrate at his holy feet. The problem here, is that I was one of the first people to receive knowledge from GMJ, about 25 years ago or so, and his knowledge is not what he says. It is empty. It is not fulfulling. It is not true, or real, he does not 'give an experience of God.' Following GMJ destroyed many many years of my life. I am still open to understanding and loving life. Unfortunately, GMJ has none of the answers. The answers can only come from inside of me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 09:15:01 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Laura Subject: Shri Maharaji's words online Message: Laura, I've got to admit there is a certain longing that is stirred in me from some of those words, too. I keep imagining this one image in my mind, though. If the point of life is to experience bliss, and I'm having a blissed out kind of day, and I walk by someone who has just been hit by a car, do I put off my bliss for a few minutes and go to help that person or do I say to myself 'Just meditate on this knowledge, that is that person's karma?' This kind of philosophy perpetuates the worst sort of self-centeredness (IMHO). I think one can believe in God and still be responsible & sane, and responsive to stuff here on earth. GM is not the only thing going. He just makes it appear that way so that we'd be in a 'double bind', tied to his 'divine toenails' by a ball & chain. Love shouldn't hurt so bad, no? How you been, girl? Glad you made it through... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 20:42:13 (EDT)
From: chameleon Email: chamelion@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Helen Subject: Karma sux Message: Do I put off my bliss for a few minutes and go to help that person or do I say to myself 'Just meditate on this knowledge, that is that person's karma?. D'you know, Helen, you are so right? Bless you... http://www.redcrow.demon.co.uk/karmic.html Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 23:21:37 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: chameleon Subject: Thanks, bless you too (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 22:31:33 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Laura Subject: Shri Maharaji's words online Message: I'm very sorry that following GMJ ruined so many years of your life. It's a great sign that you are 'still open to loving life' and looking for answers. I really appreciated that post. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 10:57:21 (EDT)
From: Mel Bourne Email: mbvictoria@hotmail.com To: Gerry, Helen and anyone Subject: More feigned concern Message: Gerry Thank you on your enlightening analysis (sorry, that should be 'guess'), as to my short remark regarding the In Memoriam idea suggesting that the loved ones should be consulted. Gerry, in dealing with people you suspect of being premies or supporters of M, you seem to suspend rational thought process and slip into a rather strange head space that seeks to interpret and translate whatever is said as exhibiting cult like thinking (I believe you call this your 'shit' detector if I remember correctly). For example, any normal person following the In Memoriam thread, would have seen my statement as a reminder that relative's of the unfortunate premies should be consulted as a matter of care on such a sensitive issue. This had not been suggested (and may not have been suggested) and such a suggestion could not be seen as unreasonable. However, in your inimitable fashion, you decided to 'interpret' what you think I really meant. In your view, I was 'dissembling by feigning concern', and then you implied that I lacked honesty and straight forwardness. Why can't you just simply accept that what I say is what I mean? You obviously think you have some superior thinking or something, but you should be careful, because this could become delusional! Anyway, after that Jethro chipped in his agreement with your views stating that 'the premie mind' has it's own 'special editor' (whatever that maybe) based on M's approval, ultimately coming to the conclusion that premies can't say what they mean. He later then discussed a supposed conflict I have concerning 'love' related to M and my 'human objectivity' and that I lacked courage which was needed to be able to communicate. I must confess, I don't have any trouble with love in my life and I don't personally see that I have any problem with a lack of courage to communicate. I think I communicate well actually, but I do not necessarily communicate what you may want to hear, but what the heck, it's a free world. To me the only redeeming aspect to the thread were Helen's comments, where she expressed her concern for the relatives' pain and agreed with the sentiment that 'what I suggested was the respectful thing to do'. However the real point I want to make is about the stereotyping of premies or others whose statements appear supportive (even just a little) to M on this site. In my view, it is incredibly unjust that a simple ten letter sentence like mine can be so grossly distorted and the writer (me) accused motives and states of mind that he hadn't even thought of. If such a simple statement can be twisted and weird meanings found in it, how can one ever express a more detailed point of view without gross misinterpretation. I suspect, however, the technique is deliberate, along with the jeering and obscenity. Your post about Broni Doran is one of the most insulting and hurtful posts that I think I have read on this site, why attack someone who is innocently trying to convey something that is meaningful to her. Has she ever done you any harm? I think that this post epitomizes the unbelievable and intense hatred present on this site. Fair enough to disagree, but why make such savage attacks? Helen….. Believe it or not, I have an open mind and heart and I agree that suicide is a terrible tragedy . I think, though, that it's a little simplistic to attribute the whole cause to M and 'the cult'. While having some impact, there may have been other factors involved as well, and as we will probably never really know please don't jump to conclusions to quickly or harshly. You also wanted to know 'what's got my goat', well basically it's the injustice of how ex-premies deride and attack premies , and I think that its quite reasonable to get annoyed about that, seeing that we are all human beings trying to find our way through life, I think we should show each other more respect. Don't you? Obviously what I have said here will be scrutinised, analysed , filtered, interpreted and commented on for 'cult think' motives, but I guess that goes with the territory in contributing a view point on this site. By the way Jim, I think the 'big picture' is trying to transcend our differences as people and that our survival on this planet is dependant on that. I think this also includes transcending our petty hatreds. Regards Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:49:30 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Mel Boring Subject: More feigned concern Message: Mel, What's so terrible about my post re Broni whatsherface? This is all I said: Ever notice how premies all seem to ''feel'' this, and ''feel'' that? Like feelings were the most important and truthful indicators of reality. Well guess what, Goober fans, they aren't. Try thinking once in while. Meanwhile dig this: And then I quote Broni. Period. And ended with a joke about you and her getting together and feeling up a storm together. Nothing sexual intended, BTW. this post epitomizes the unbelievable and intense hatred present on this site. Jeez, Mel I've said a lot worse things than that. What's the deal? Got a thing for Broni? Hey, that's great. You're a chivalrous guy. I admire that. Come on, tell us the truth. Yer sweet on her aren't ya? (Oh heck, there I go reading between the lines again. Excuse me while I slap myself.) You obviously think you have some superior thinking or something, but you should be careful, because this could become delusional! Now you wouldn't be interpreting me, would you, Mel? Thanks for the warning, though. Oh, almost forgot the requisite ''fuck you.'' So there you go. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:14:40 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Mel Subject: More feigned concern Message: And ended with a joke about you and her getting together and feeling up a storm together. Nothing sexual intended, BTW. Well, maybe a little sexual innuendo here. :-) You're OK, Mel. Just a little uptight and melodramatic. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:34:15 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: More feigned concern Message: Hi Mel Bourne You said: Obviously what I have said here will be scrutinised, analysed , filtered, interpreted and commented on for 'cult think' motives, but I guess that goes with the territory in contributing a view point on this site. By the way Jim, I think the 'big picture' is trying to transcend our differences as people and that our survival on this planet is dependant on that. I think this also includes transcending our petty hatreds. First, I bolded the words 'a view' because I dont' think every view on everything is treated badly. When premies or pro-maraji or whatever come here, to an ex premie site, and express the opposite view, it seems kind of natural that they would get mixed reactions. I have read a lot of your posts andliked them, I don't think we have ever had an exchage that could be deemed 'negative' I just used an example in email. I used to be on a diet support usenet group. You should have seen the flames and cursing over a simple issue of low-carb vs. low-fat diets! Honestly, it makes all of us, premies and ex's, look like saints. I think the intensity of responses premies get here is in proportion to the intensity of their posts. At least usually. We ex's are not all alike. There's different backgrounds and personalities and optinions about just about everything. Except we went through one experience together. Not much different from premies really, though I do see more inhibition of individuality in that group. That's just what *I* see and otheres here seem to agree with me. Anyyay, I am sorry if your post invited responses that upset you or pissed you off or whatever. I don't like myself much when I do that to someone, than later feel it was uncalled for. Funny thing is, the person I treated the worst on here was Robyn of all people! sheesh. Anyway, I agree, survival in our times does depend on learning to get over the petty stuff. The fight or flight mechanism needs to evolve to something else. That's quite a challenge. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:43:29 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Let's Keep this Dialogue Going Message: Mel, I appreciate your providing a more in-depth post on the thoughts that you have regarding this web site and the In Memorium post. I apologize if I misrepresented your motives, opinions, or beliefs in any way. I agree with you that we need to be careful not to pigeonhole all premies as cookie-cutter charicatures. I myself am very disturbed by these suicides. What disturbs me to no end is the fact that these occured and that PROBABLY (I do not not this for FACT, Mahraji did not attend the funerals or extend himself to the families. In fact I would wager a guess (I do NOT pretend to have any facts here) that he was more concerned with covering his own butt legally than with the pain and anguish of the families. Once again I think my husband put it right when he said that Maharaj Ji 'wants to be a rock star, not a minister.' As far as the humanity issues, I think that we all get so frustrated when we see the human factor ignored by GM. To me, even his parables don't contain a Kernel of practical humanity such as helping grieving people, raising children, the nature of evil, etc. I find him so bland and tasteless now. Einstein once said 'Remember your humanity and forget everything else.' I'm a very religious person, but I'm learning a lot from conversing with people on this website, and I'm staring to think that religion/spirituality is only useful if it opens up our humanity rather than squealching (sp) it, denying it, or avoiding it. So much damage has been done in the name of religion, and spiritual trips. Mel, please keep the dialogue going. Tell me what you think. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:57:44 (EDT)
From: Mel Email: None To: Helen Subject: Let's Keep this Dialogue Going Message: Sorry about all the spelling errors on that post--didn't have time to proofread. Hope it made sense. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 13:02:23 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mel Subject: Let's Keep this Dialogue Going Message: Once again I apologize for posting that last post incorrectly, saying it was from you to me instead of from me to you. This is what comes from trying to sneak peeks at The Forum when I should be doing my work! Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 13:08:00 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Helen Subject: Let's Keep this Dialogue Going Message: It cracks me up when people think that 'Jesus taught this knowledge'. Probably because I used to think that myself-gak! Jesus taught people how to be selfless and think of others first. Whether or not you believe he was a messiah or not, morality is found in his teachings as they are written. Knowledge is totally selfish practice (though I'm sure many of the people who practice it aren't selfish themselves). Jesus said to do for others, not sit around with your fingers in your ears. Maharaji doesn't really offer morality in his teachings. In fact, in one video I watched he makes fun of people who try to do the right thing or 'be good'. He says it won't increase anyone's life (well,no shit, Sherlock!) and says that being good serves no purpose. I disagree very strongly with that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 13:12:08 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: VP Subject: Let's Keep this Dialogue Going Message: VP: If there were ANY yoga that made sense to me now, it would be the concept of 'karma yoga' for that very reason. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 14:06:22 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: Helen Subject: Let's Keep this Dialogue-oops! Message: Oops! That should have read, 'Whether or not you believe he is the Messiah...' I used an extra 'or not' in there. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 15:57:05 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: VP Subject: WHat's Good for the Goose Message: Hey VP, Selene, and Mike, everyone I'm home from work so I can write without the fear of someone walking in the room catching me not working. I almost got killed on the beltway driving home today. I think I need a valium! OY! My head, it aches, I almost met my Maker! VP did you see the Van Gogh exhibit? Where do you live VP? You don't have to answer if you wish to remain anon. Veep, I gotta tell you I agree with what you say about Jesus. I'm not a 'born again' or anything like that, but I do find that the teachings of Jesus have a lot of practical application. But then again I like a lot of the teachings of Judaism too. That's the curse & blessing of being raised Unitarian: it's sorta Jewish, sorta Christian, sorta schizo (sp). Do I do Passover or Easter? Christmas or Hanukkah? Matzoh or velveeta? Oy, the choices, the choices! I'm floored that GM would say such a thing about being good serving no purpose. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I have to see this as his effort to get peoples' minds off of their own consciences, their own value systems, and their own sense of right and wrong. He wants people totally stripped of that kind of mental framework so that their brains are empty and ready for the garbage he wants to put in there. Also, I think that is more of that Hindu new agey crap that 'there is no good and no bad, it's all one, man.' To that I say BULLSHIT. We need to discriminate and judge with these minds of ours precisely because of the Maharaji's out there who are so willing to break every rule of human decency. Someone said the other day, on the Forum, how cynical GM is. I couldn't agree more. An obvious premie said the other day in a post, something to the effect of:' '' What's wrong with MaharajJi having a roll in the hay? That's just your 'fixed image' of a Perfect Master, albeit a very Judeo Christian view of a Perfect Master...'' I have to telll you that just floored me. I wrote back a scathing post but it disappeared in the archives before it got posted. I mean most folks would universally agree that cheating on your spouse is BAD, it hurts the spouse, hurts the kids, breaks vows, etc. And most folks would agree that a so-called spiritual or religious leader (GM is neither) should try even harder to be beyond reproach when it comes to morality. Especially a teacher who once dictated how others should comport themselves sexually--ie, celibacy in the ashram. I get myself so worked up over all this. I gotta calm down. Now where's that valium? Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 16:11:22 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: It kinda reminds me of Message: Helen: a line from Arti. It went something like this: chanting, fasting, CHARITY, austerity will never bring you knowledge of the soul etc, etc It shows, quite clearly that common human decency and charity are not respected qualities in human beings (as far as M and hinduism are concerned). It is derision, pure and simple. I may be a bit of a rebel (UNDERSTATEMENT!), but here goes: If I have to give up what little of THAT quality that I possess to find my soul, then screw my soul! It can just stay lost! It's worthless! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 08:49:18 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: arti Message: Good point. What good is a soul that has skipped over that whole part about thinking about others? That arti song--talk about creating a 'double bind'...reinforcing the idea that nothing, nothing in this world but GM is worth focusing on. I can remember times singing it though, when I did feel something for GM.. did he feel something for me??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 08:54:26 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: artie Message: I guess GM does love all his little children...in the most 'impersonal, detached' way, except those he's told to take a walk, and those who are demanding an explanation/apology, and those who want their $ back, and those who... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 21:12:27 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Helen Subject: Oy, Helen Message: Helen, Just a comparison between JC and Maharaji. I don't see the similarities between the two that the premies do. Christian background but missing something? Have a live master and fill the void! UG. Is that still the party line?? No, Van Gogh eluded me due to the fact that they ran out of advance tickets. JW says the exhibit moves to LA next, so maybe I will get lucky. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 21:49:49 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: VP Subject: JC and GM Message: I don't know what the party line is...my guess is that they don' t use the word Master too much with new people-- don't you think? But there's probably a lot of innuendo about Maharaji being like Christ and how wonderful that he is among us. I recently saw a production of Godspell that made me a little uncomfortable--clearly the disciples and Jesus had a Master-devotee relationship. So...I do like some of Jesus' teachings (some of them) but from a safe distance. I wouldn't be able to handle that Master thing ever again. Don't want to offend any Christians out there. Just one opinion. Hope you get to see Van Gogh. It's been quite the social whirl scene here with a lot of V.I.P.s coming into town to see the show. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 12:21:53 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: JC and GM Message: Helen: The only thing I can say is that comparing JC to M is truely like apples and oranges. I'm not saying anything about the divinity of JC, just that he taught stuff that is COMPLETELY different. I know that this 'concept' takes a little getting used to, since we were brainwashed from day-one that JC taught the K. I'll give one of my favorite examples: - Where M teaches TOTAL selfishness (by concentrating on him and K, exclusively), JC taught that 'whosoever does these things to the least of men, has done them unto me.' Seems like JC was trying to get people to take care of each other, doesn't it? Judging from what I've read of the bible, he didn't want people just sitting around meditating, he wanted ACTION (something that M apparently disdains). Additionally, I don't see JC encouraging people to 'slobber' all over his feet, either. He didn't seem to take to kindly to M's version of darshan. - Again, I'm not defending christianity, but I see a WORLD of difference between M and just about any other 'teacher' that this world has known as such. M is THE most selfish, ignorant, meaningless excuse for a 'teacher' that I've ever had the displeasure to see, read or hear. To place him, even momentarily, in the same category as some of our other 'teachers' is a travesty, in my opinion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:30:26 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: JC and GM Message: So true. Jesus challenged the status quo, & was a hero as far as I'm concerned, when it comes to social justice. His words have meaning to people, whether they are Christian or not. Many of his teachings have universality and a certain timelessness. His allegories are very practical, speaking to both men and women. Will anything Gm has said be remembered 2000 years from now? I think, unfortunately, religious fanatics have taken the radical teachings and profound messages of Jesus and have twisted them around so that the focus goes onto church doctrine instead of trying to learn from a very great person. Didn't he wash his disciples feet? Can you imagine GM washing anyone's feet? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:52:51 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Helen Subject: JC and GM Message: unfortunately, religious fanatics have taken the... profound messages of Jesus and have twisted them around Can anyone give me an 'AMEN' for Sister Helen? Seriously, I agree. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:57:07 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: VP Subject: AAAAAAMEN! (nt) Message: For sister Helen! ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 13:53:00 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: Now you've done it! Message: Helen: You've just gone too far, don't cha know! Hey, dammit, M is god and god don't wash the feet of anyone else, ok? But, of course, he 'carries us around' in that stupid krishna crown, right? See how humble he is? Our feet are on his head. - Yes, knowledge-lite types, he actually said this at a program, but I guess you won't believe that either..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 14:35:06 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike & VP Subject: Now you've done it! Message: Well, if that ain't the most profound thing I ever heard! In GM's Krishna crown! That's where I been all these years? In GM's crown. Damn. I knew I was somewhere, but didn't know where. I was lost but now I'm found! Alleluia!! Sister Helen. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 14:42:34 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: Now you've done it! Message: Helen: Yeah, you were lost in his 'forest' of hair.....yeccchhh! Why did I write this? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 14:50:38 (EST)
From: Wharf the Clingon Email: None To: Mike Subject: Now you've done it! Message: Because you are whacked in the head! (; Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 22:45:33 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Helen Subject: JC and GM Message: Hey guys, Before you get too carried away with this Jesus thing, have you ever heard of the Jesus Seminar? A bunch of theologians working over the last few years on sorting out what Jesus really said and did from what he certainly didn't, might not have done or only maybe did or said. Everything's coded in four colours: balck for what we know is true, gray for maybe, pink for probably not and red for certainly not. Many of your favorite images, I'm told, are right there in the red. Face it, we don't have a clue who this guy was 2k years ago. If you're looking for a hood ornament or poster boy, that's fine, but if you really want to know the man... FORGET IT! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 23:22:11 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: JC and GM Message: Yes I have most definitely heard of the Jesus seminar, Jim. I think it is fantastic. They are scholars and historians and I believe putting theology into a historical context is very important. In other words, yes, let's keep our feet on the ground. Nevertheless, Jesus is an inspiring figure who has a unique place in history, who spoke of LOVE & made ethical demands (the Sermon on the Mount for example) in a way that was not exactly popular back then. People were expecting a military leader who would soon proclaim the establishment of the Kingdom of God and along came this fellow talking about loving thy neighbor as thyself, compassion for the weak and poor, forgiveness. Understanding what really happened will probably never happen, it is an onerous task to study and think about these things. Yes I understand that you are saying that people romanticize Jesus, yes they do. However I see nothing wrong with drawing inspiration from Jesus nevertheless. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 09:58:30 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Helen Subject: Jesus fucked us up Message: Jesus is an inspiring figure who has a unique place in history, who spoke of LOVE & made ethical demands (the Sermon on the Mount for example) in a way that was not exactly popular back then. Helen, Who knows what the real Jesus was all about. Bill goes out of his way to call him 'Yeshua' but, with all due respect, I think that's kind of pointless. Everything about the actual person is probably so misunderstood who cares if his name's a bit off. (Oh, and by the way, how do you PRONOUNCE that name, Bill? I bet there isn't a person alive who can say with certainty. Again, who cares?). But, assuming we're talking about the same icon, I'd say he hurt us more than helped. We didn't need Jesus to learn morality. Anyone who thinks people didn't understand co-operation and trust and yes, even brotherly love, before Christ is fooling themself. What Jesus did, though, was take these concepts to ridiculous and dangerous extremes. There is no way in the world I'm going to love my own brother, let alone some total stranger, like myself and NOR SHOULD THERE BE. Selflessness is fake and the concept is dangerous. What Jesus did was put a phony record on that people are still trying to dance to two thousand years later. And who's really got the steps down? No one. It's unnatural AND unhealthy. Rxpecting it in people is like taking on an unnecessary cloack of naivite and inviting unnecessary disappointment. Love, Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 12:17:00 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: Too tired to tangle Message: Jim, I read that excerpt of the Guru Papers, no I didn't read the book, and so I understand what you are talking about about selflessness, etc. And when you say Jesus took things to dangerous extremes-well, there is something to that being that at that time in history they felt the apocalypse was imminent. I guess I am a hopeless idealist but the IDEAS that he preached are very interesting to me. It's pretty ironic that I am defending Christians since I have been told I am going to go to hell because of my Unitarian beliefs more times than I can say. Anyway Jim, you & I draw different conclusions from things--very different. But were not all one, as the author of The Guru Papers say, and vive le difference, no? Love peace and sunshine and rainbows, Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 14:47:23 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: I've woken up Message: Does your philosophy allow for interdependence, which certainly you'll agree is dictated by our biology? And a certain amount of selflessness is dictated by our biology as well in order for the species to continue (ie., most parents would easliy throw themselves in front of a train to save their children. ANyone who has breastfed a child will tell you about the thrill of feeling like your breast has been shot with a staple gun.) Now fortunately mother nature also gave us those warm and fuzzy bonding hormones which make it all worthwhile. Please don't tell me you are into Ayn Rand too, Jim. There are extremes one can go to in any philosophy--extreme selfishness or selfishness are not good (in my opinion). By the way, Jesus didn't fuck me up, my parents did. Haven't you read that Philip Larkin poem about that? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 19:45:01 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jesus fucked us up Message: Jim, I like some of the stories of Jesus' teachings as they are written. I especially like the story where Jesus tells the people in the crowd to cast the first stone if they are without faults. This is about tolerance which is important if we are to survive with all of the different people around us. Is this story in the red? Sheesh! Next you are going to tell me there is no Santa Claus... Maybe we are set up for disappointment by being unable to love our neighbors as ourselves, but is there anything wrong with trying to be kind to those around us? Striving to be perfect is nonsense, but I don't think Christians are asked to be perfect. I believe they are forced to face their flaws and imperfections and think about what they could do to lead better lives. I think I said that Jesus' teachings 'as they are written' are much different from Maharaji's which have nothing whatsoever to do with morality. I know you are showing them to be in the same 'fake Lord' category, and they may well be. I still maintain that the content of their teachings is different. (Except of course for the part where they are the Lord of the Universe. I guess they both have that in common.) Seriously, I don't know what is true and what isn't when it comes to Jesus and frankly I don't know that I would ever be able to find out. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:32:44 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: VP Subject: Helen and Veep Message: Helen, No, I'm not into Ayn Rand. Don't you have to be under twenty-three to like her? She was something else alright. Tricked her husband and Branden's wife into accomodating her affair with young Nathaniel, then made a complete fool of herself, what with all that slapping and denouncing, after he pushed himself away from the table. No, Rand ADVOCATES a rigid selfishness which overlooks our naturally sympathetic tendencies and innate appetite for long-term co-operation strategies. I don't advocate nothing. I just think that we've got a built-in sense of when it's in our best interest to share and when to horde. I learnt what I know about this view from reading evolutionary psychology. But then it's just so obvious when you think about it. All else being equal, I'll defend my cousin over a perfect stranger and my brother over my cousin. I'll probably save myself over my brother, especially if it seems like a one-shot deal. Veep, Christians are asked to love their neighbour (i.e. anyone and everyone) like they love themself. Not a little less, not a lot less, but equally. That's pure bullshit. It's as dangerous as any other cult mandate I'm aware of. Jesus also taught that faith was a superior form of 'knowing' than any other. More dangerous bullshit. Then there's the matter of trusting God to take care of you. Give me a fucking break! And finally, the program of worshipping him. Yech! Let's face it, these religious leaders can look like all sorts of things through the vaseline-smeared lenses of history and their churches. Come on, doesn't Shri Hans seem like the most noble, beuatiful 'spiritual' guy you ever met? Tell that to the guru lineage he broke away from in his own little power struggle (foreshadowing that of his sons). The most that any of these guys could ever claim virtue-wise is that they were decieving themselves along with their flock. No thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 21:03:23 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: Helen and Veep Message: Jim, I can see that any argument with you is a test of the 'strongest, less fatigued brain' and buddy, yours is far beyond me. My husband is also into evolutionary psychology so this is what I live with day in and day out. And he (the agnostic) took 9 religion and philosophy courses and so I lose every argument (poor poor me). But Jim here is that commandment rephrased: 'Don't do unto others what you would not want done to you.' What the hell is so wrong with that? I think it is simple human kindness, a desire to not cause suffering, physical or mental, to another humsn being. I try to live by it myself and find that I have a pretty clear conscience (except for all the dumb-ass things I did in my 20's) Now if someone wrongs you I think it is OK to fight back, this turn the other cheek stuff is for doormats, baby. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 22:40:16 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Jim Subject: Shri Hans beautiful? Message: Come on, doesn't Shri Hans seem like the most noble, beautiful 'spiritual' guy you ever met? Nah! I always thought he looked like a materialistic sleaze (Check out the pic of him in that heavy get up on Jean Michel's site.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:47:00 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: VP & Jim Subject: Jesus fucked us up Message: Well said, Veep. I think I know something about what Jim is talking about also, after thinking about it a bit, but it is hard for me to put it into a context I can relate to (I am hopelessly subjective in my thinking) I think Jim is saying that the ideals of selflessness, or lack of ego; of loving thy neighbor as thyself, etc., are unnecessarily and unrealistically demanding, even stupid and dangerous because a sense of healthy self-preservation is essential to survival. The authors of The Guru Papers echo this, saying that we should not be focussing on selflessness in this day and age but on our survival. In my own subjective experiences I have seen where the expectation of selflessness leads to the disappearance of a strong ego, a person with a will and needs. A friend of mine has a T-shirt that says 'Nurture 'Til You're Nuts'. I think women are quite programmed to be selfless and as we mature we find out that if we don't stand up for ourselves, who will? We have everything to gain from NOT being doormats, including the respect of our spouses, children, bosses, etc. Men too have to learn this lesson. It's an unnecessary burden to be selfless to the point of having no personal boundaries, tastes, limits, common sense, etc. GM makes a cult out of surrendering the ego. On the other hand, I certainly see a lot of selfishness in this world, the DC area is full of it. There is barely a conversation here that doesn't somehow revolve around money. How much money does a person really need, I don't know the answer. Can we redistribute the wealth, no we can't, but I'm still idealistic enough to hope that people could give a little time to a cause that might help the community. To me, that is important to our survival. But also, I think we are hard-wired such that in giving to one another, we receive something back. You can see that as part of the way we were wired in order to survive, or you can see it as God's benevalence (sp) made manifest in man (woman). I must confess I still see Jesus and Maharaji as apples and oranges (as Mike said), but then again, I didn't have a lot of Christian doctrine embedded into me, the 'crown of thorns' guilt weighing me down, as a child. I just got taught the good stuff. And I still more strongly identify with Judaism cause the trinity and all that is just a little much for my pea brain to comprehend. Sister Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 11:28:51 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: VP Subject: Jesus fucked us up Message: Striving to be perfect is nonsense, but I don't think Christians are asked to be perfect. I believe they are forced to face their flaws and imperfections and think about what they could do to lead better lives. Ever see the bumpersticker ''Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven''? To me, that infers, er, implies, whatever, sorta means that Christians needn't worry about their imperfections or how they treat others, because they are saved by virtue of their acceptance of Jesus as their perfect master, I mean, Lord and Savior. As William Borroughs said, ''Never do business with a christian. They'll fuck ya in the name of Jesus.'' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:21:27 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Jesus fucked us up Message: Now, Gerry, don't even get me started, brother. There's a lot of Christians who are assholes, but not all Christians are assholes, OK? There's a lot of this 'Christians as assholes' debate in Walker Percy's book The Second Coming. It is hilarious (in a bleak, depressive sort of way). Sister Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:26:51 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Jesus fucked us up Message: Gerry, I guess I was thinking about confession of sins...God no, Jim... PLEEZE don't get started on that one!! Why did I ever type the word. Perish the thought! I know some really nice Christians, Gerry, and I know a couple of fundamentalists who would murder you if they thought that it would stop abortions. I guess it is like any other group of people- some are assholes and some aren't. Speaking of bumper stickers, my personal favorite is: 'God, save me from your followers!' This one was given to me by a preacher (along with the Darwin fish-have you seen that?) I finally took the Darwin fish off of my car after being harrassed and harangued at each intersection by well meaning fudamentalist Christians. I haven't worked up the courage to put the 'save me from your followers' on my car yet... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:31:07 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: VP Subject: Jesus fucked us up Message: HA! 'God, save me from your followers!' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:37:56 (EST)
From: We've got to change Email: None To: Helen Subject: the name of this thread... Message: before we burn in hell-snicker. VP BTW, I do not believe in hell. Of this much, I am certain. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 14:51:58 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: VP Subject: Amen brother Message: We have taken the Lord's name in vain & we will burn in the hellfires of damnation!!!! (I almost wrote 'dalmation'. Oops) Brother Veep, repent your sins, brother, for there's just two choices when you die: heaven if you've been saved by the blood of Jee-sus, and hell, if you haven't! The Bible wrote it, I read it, and that's all I need to know! Help, I'm scaring myself! Seriously, now, at my old job my BOSS told me what a wonderful person I was & how much she loved me and was so worried that I was going to go to hell because I hadn't been saved. (I had to have a little talk with her--we're still friends) Another time, another BOSS told me that my father-in-law was going to go to hell because he committed suicide. Can you believe that? These words were just what I needed to hear to be 'ministered to' in my hour of grief, let me tell you! I think life is hard enough down here for God to do anything like hell. I dunno. I guess some of us have already been to hell and back, amen, brother. Sister Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:03:57 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Helen Subject: Amen sister Message: You know, sister Helen, that your BOSS was sorely mistaken. People who kill themselves become servants in the afterlife. Didn't he/she ever read Dante's Inferno? (Or see the movie Beetlejuice? sheesh!) That really sucks, but get this: someone told me the same thing at the funeral of my premie friend who committed suicide. It must be in a book somewhere entitled, What to say to people who have lost a loved one to suicide My favorite topic at the funeral (he said sarcastically) was the speculation on WHY my friend did it. Just what I wanted to talk about in my time of grief...I guess people really don't know what to say. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:13:32 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: VP Subject: Amen sister Message: Oh God, that book title cracks me up! I tell you, people need to get a clue when it comes to saying the right thing. better yet to just say nuffin if you don't know what to say because a funeral is not the place to put one's foot in a pile of doo-doo. That's what Sister Helen has to say on that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 15:20:48 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Helen and VP Subject: Oh sister! Message: I would *never* suggest all christians are assholes. Did I say that? Probably imferred it. Or did I imply it? Anyway I agree there's all types in any crowd. You reminded me of another bumpersticker similiar to what you said: The Bible says it, God wrote, and that settles it! Now there's a belief system! VP: I just fired my general contractor, before he even started. I'm beginning to understand AND believe in hell... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 17:14:52 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Living in hell Message: I guess I should have said that there is not hell in the afterlife. Hell on earth, of course... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 17:21:21 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Oh sister! Message: No, you did not say or infer that all Christians are assholes. I think we were responding to the quote: ''Never do business with a christian. They'll fuck ya in the name of Jesus.'' That was in your post. What is your email address?...I need to ask you a question away from here, if you don't mind. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 11:16:03 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: We've got to change Subject: Okay, abortion saves lives Message: What do premies believe about abortion anyway? Why is Maharaji too chickenshit to give his followers any real moral doctrine, right or wrong? Oh yeah, because it's an experience. I forgot. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 12:37:45 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: Okay, abortion saves lives Message: Dear GM would lose a lot of his financial backing and feel goodism mentality if he took any stands. Well he took a stand on the internet and avocados I guess. That took great courage, no doubt. (; Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 21:33:29 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: VP Subject: Thinking of becoming Jewish Message: It's the only group that ever did anything for me. I don't know that I could believe in the religious concepts, but I wouldn't have to tell. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 21:42:39 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Gail Subject: Thinking of becoming Jewish Message: And they wouldn't care if you were religious or not--you could take what you want out of it, whatever gives you strength. There are cultural Jews, religious Jews, and closet Jews (like me) who just like the teachings. It's a religion that makes a lot fo sense (to me at least). Then again, there is stuff that's not so good about it too. The God of the Old Testament is a little scary--what he did to Job (& others ) was downright cruel Anyway, take the good from it, blow off the bad. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 22:12:39 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Helen/Gail Subject: Thinking of becoming Jewish Message: Helen, At the risk of sounding like a religious zealot (which I am NOT) here is the deal with Job as I understand it. According to most interpretations, God really didn't do that stuff to Job. In the story, Satan (or HaSatan--satan as the evil concept did not exist at the time this book was written. Hasatan was merely 'adversarial') actually makes a bet with God that he can make the pious Job deny God. God agrees to give Hasatan a free hand with Job (killing Job is not allowed). God does ALLOW the bad things to happen to Job, even though he himself doesn't do them -technically. He stands by while they happen, just to prove a point to Hasatan. It is pretty disturbing. At the end, God tells Job that he is merely a man. Who is he to question the motives of God? How can he know the mind of God? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Gail, I have thought about becoming Jewish myself. Damn shame they don't have Santa Claus though. I'll bet Jim could give us an expose on Judism. JIM? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 23:36:29 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: VP & Gail Subject: Oy carumba! Message: I've got to stop sneaking peeks at the Forum and get busy reading the book for my book club which I've barely started. Anyway, the deal on Job. I think it is just horrible that God allowed his faithful servant Job's loved ones to all get killed etc, just to prove a point to Satan. I mean what's the difference between that and Maharaji's mahatmas asking us if we would cut off our heads for GM? Anyway, though, we all know those biblical stories are full of a lot of crazy action and not to be taken literally. Some good books on the subject of Judaism: To Be a Jew by Hayim Halevy Donin (Jewish philosophy and Jewish law) and This Is My God by Herman Wouk (he's the famous novelist who is also an Orthodox Jew). A lot of synagogues have classes for non-Jews to introduce them to Judaism. I'm thinking of taking a Hebrew class myself. I guess I've talked about this to death, but growing up Unitarian is more similar to Judaism than Christianity because Unitarians believe in one God vs. the trinity and they also observe Passover. I sang in the Unitarian choir for about 6 yrs and we sang Hebrew songs as well as hymns. There are a lot of Jewish Unitarians as well as atheist Unitarians. I would classify all Unitarians as humanitarians. Not all Unitarians believe in God--I am a rarity among them I think these days! Anyway, learning about Judiasm is a glorious adventure to me even tho I probably would never convert b/c that would be quite a cultural leap and I'm too lazy to change my life that much. Have fun! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 11:17:34 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: Why not just marry one? Message: You can still get the magazines that way. Plus, you won't have to be circumsized. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 13:20:22 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jim Subject: Why not just marry one? Message: Jim: They don't circumsize women..... he he he.... gotcha! ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 14:59:10 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Mike Subject: Why not just marry one? Message: yeah, Jim, wrong religion! Only certain Moslem sects (usually in Africa-Sudan, for one) circumsize women. It is barbaric and horrific. They cut off all external genitilia, all in the name of god, of course. Talk about anti-sex... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 16:06:24 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: Ouch! (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 02:28:19 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Jim Subject: JC and GM Message: Jimbo, youse got de colors wrong. Red is 'pretty sure', pink is 'possible,' grey is 'doubtful,' and black is 'nope, not part of the tradition'(these are, of course, my colorful paraphrases). These guys would never admit that something was sure, for, as you pointed out, WE DON'T KNOW! To learn more about the Jesus Seminar, go to your library and ask for 'The Five Gospels' and their latest book, the title of which has slipped my mind at the moment, since I've spent the last three days only thinking about Origen and the Gnostics. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 10:03:23 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Origin and the Gnostics Message: Mickey, I can't believe you know these guys! I saw them in Vancouver last year. They were incredible. The show was outrageous, I'm surprised it didn't get shut down. Really, I have to say that's the first time I've ever seen a woman do something like that. On stage too. Amazing. No, seriously, thanks for the tip. I WILL look it up. I'm kind of interested in all them colors. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 21:35:40 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: Origin and the Gnostics Message: What did she do? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 29, 1998 at 11:08:33 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: Origin and the Gnostics Message: No, Gail, some things are best left unspoken. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 16:12:55 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: I disagree Message: For example, any normal person following the In Memoriam thread, would have seen my statement as a reminder that relative's of the unfortunate premies should be consulted as a matter of care on such a sensitive issue. This had not been suggested (and may not have been suggested) and such a suggestion could not be seen as unreasonable. By the way, Mel, I'm not saying your suggestion was unreasonable. Not at all. All the same, though, I don't agree. I think it's perfectly fine to put up a memorial page to those who cracked up or worse in Maharaji's cult without their families' permission. But back it up a bit, Mel. Really, you realize that most people here don't like you. Do you think that's only because you're a premie? I mean my own take on you is that you're really, as others have said here, quite disingenuous. I'd have to go back to the several discussions we've had for examples but that's the over all impression I've gotten. Well, here's an example. You urged us to carefully consider how we criticised Maharaji. If I remember right (and if I'm wrong, forgive me. It won't be the first time), but if I remember right you were 'concerned' that innaccurate or even illegal (i.e. defamatory) accusations could both tarnish the general reputation of this page and even expose it/Brian/me/some of us to legal action. Did I get that right? Now, Mel, let's get real. Your concern was never for us, was it? You're a premie, your loyalities are with your cult leader. You'd as soon see this page shut down as ever talk with us again. No, your motivation was to intimidate us behind a mask of congeniality. Kind of like the hypocritical neighbour who breathlessly tells you the bad gossip that's circulating about you under the guise of caring communication. She pretends to want you arm you with information when, really, she just wants to hurt you. Know the type? Let me ask you something: how much do you honestly care about whether the Weiner family would be hurt or offended if we mentioned their son, Dave's name on a Memorial page? Did you read the suggestion and immediately think to yourself, 'Oh, that would be horrible! What if the guy's family was hurt by it? I'd better talk with these ex's about that before they do something hasty and unnecessarily hurt someone.'? Was that your sentiment? Somehow I doubt it. Mel, if you really cared a fig about Dave's family, for example, you'd agree that the best thing they could ever get from any of us (you, me, Maharaji and all the other sad characters of this tragicomedy that took their son's life) would be an apology from Maharaji for the excessive pressures people like Dave lived with in 1974. You say the Ashram Manual was represseive and it's a good thing it's gone? Well wouldn't it be something if the guy who was responsible for the whole show finally contacted the family directly and said as much too? Of course it would, Mel and you know it. Mind you, when he called them Maharaji might have to answer a few questions, don't you think? Like Mrs. Weiner asking him what right he had to ask her son to surrender the reigns of his life to him? What'd he tihnk he was, God or something? Or maybe she'd ask Maharaji what right he had demonizing the mind to such an extent that he only son would kill himself because he couldn't control his thoughts as directed and excise his doubts? There are lots of questions Mr. or Mrs. Weiner might ask. You're a smart guy. You could probably give them a whole list. That is if you weren't working against company policy. So, Mel, if you really cared about the families you'd be lining up with us to help them finally resolve their loss. That resolution requires a full apology from Maharaji for whatever role he played and you know it. Maybe Maharaji can't say for sure how responsible he was. Fine. He can still offer his apology, knowing that at least some of Dave's problems -- and Nigel's, Elaine's, Gregg's, Steve's, Alistair's and whoever the else you might want to add to the list -- were only the product of the pressure cooker Maharaji 'lorded' over in the seventies. Now THAT might satisfy me that you're sincere, Mel. This other shit is just that, as far as I'm concerned. Oh yeah, as for your bigger picture, give me a break! You live in a real world with real people. Things happen. For example, Dave Weiner, whom you didn't know, killed himself becuase he was so torqued up trying to follow the impossible commands of Maharaji, whom you do know. You can't communicate with Dave but you can with Maharaji. Do something if you care so much. Otherwise, mind your own business. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 20:48:30 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: Right on, as usual, Jim. (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 22:18:02 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Jim/Mel Subject: Others disagree Message: Mel, The family of my dead friend would be MORE than happy to put that death on a memorial page as a witness against this cult. I'll bet most of the families of cult victims would feel the same if asked. Most of them probably don't share your concerns for Maharaji or his reputation. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 22:18:02 (EDT)
From: DV Email: Goat To: Mel Bourne Subject: More feigned concern Message: I don't have time right now, but you will hear my response regarding how some (quite a few, actually) premies treat non premies and each other, including the little tests I occasionally give to expose their pseudo spiritual cult premie weenie clubs of judgement. And how M has encouraged it. I once read that the bloodiest wars in history are religious ones- I don't doubt it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 11:59:38 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: You don't get it, do you? Message: Mel: Tell me.... What is so special about M that we should give him a consideration that he DOESN'T see fit to give us or anyone else? Why do you keep defending his actions? Why do you care? If he is 'nothing special' why do you care, at all? All the knowledge-lite folks seem to be saying that he is 'nothing special,' just a meditation teacher, etc. Why don't you show the same concern for Maharishi Mahesh? He's just a mediation teacher, too. He takes an immense amount of heat, too. Why no concern there? - One second you say that M and the 'cult' couldn't be the cause and then a few seconds later you infer that WE may be the cause of some confused premie (as if those two words are actually different in meaning) to commit suicide. Bucko, if WE have that capability, then YOUR MASTER has it in spades! You don't give my words any credence, whatsoever, so I can't possibly have the effect that YOUR MASTER has on you. It all ties in with my 'agya' post. M has the 'apparent authority' over you, while I do NOT! BIG DIFFERENCE, partner! His words have the 'power' because premies gave him the power. My words DON'T have that same power because even those that agree with me are NOT subordinate to me in any way! Get it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Oct 26, 1998 at 20:17:04 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mike Subject: infer/imply Message: Mike, One IMPLIES something when one suggests a meaning without expressly stating it. One INFERS something when one construes an unexpressed meaning from a statement or situation. I wouldn't have said anything but Joe asked me to correct you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 09:32:24 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jim Subject: infer/imply Message: Jim & Joe: No problem. Thanks! Hey, why didn't Joe speak up? You no like-a talkin to me, Joe? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 09:40:01 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mike Subject: infer/imply Message: Mike, Joe told me to tell you that it's not that he doesn't like talking with you. He's just really busy. You know? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 09:55:50 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jim Subject: infer/imply Message: Ok, ok, I won't harrass him for it. Man, work gets in the way of everything.... :-) Hey, is he an english major (seriously?) I've noticed that his posts are always very eloquent and grammatically correct. Just thought I'd ask. :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 10:11:39 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Mike Subject: infer/imply Message: Joe is just one of those guys that writes like that. I think it's a bit of problem, myself. But what fan you do? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 14:27:45 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: infer/imply--Mike's correct Message: While generally regarded as a loose usage, an acceptable meaning of the word infer is to imply. Source:Webster's New Twentieth Century Dictionary (unabridged) second edition-deluxe color version Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 19:16:14 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gerry Subject: not really Message: The use of INFER in sense 2 (imply, suggest) is considered incorrect by many people since it is the reverse of the primary sense of the verb. It should be avoided by using IMPLY or SUGGEST. Source: The Concise Oxford Dictionary (Ninth Edition) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 20:00:23 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, You are Right Message: The American Heritage Dictionary: 'Infer and imply are carefully distinguished in common usage..to infer is to draw a conclusion based on facts and indications...The report implies that we were to blame. To imply is to state indirectly, hint, or intimate...In these senses the words are not interchangeable. Although infer sometimes appears in examples such as the one above, it is not acceptable there, according to 92 percent of the Usage Panel.' And you don't want to mess with the Usage Panel. Otherwise, our very civilization is at risk, and we will find people doing things like using transition as a verb. God, no! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 21:17:15 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: No, YOU'RE right Message: Joe, Those 8 per cent worry me a bit. Know what I mean? Can you imagine some people actually bothering to be on the great Usage Panel (an honorific no less esteemed than being a director of the legendary Divine Light Mission) and STILL getting imply/infer screwed up? I say they're fucked irregardless of whatever. :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 10:00:42 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hey, you two! Message: Jim & JW: OK, I admit it ( I think I already did), but just in case.... I was wrong, I was wrong, I was wrong, I was wrong, I was wrong, I was wrong, I was wrong, I was wrong, I was wrong, I was wrong, I was wrong, I was wrong. YOU IMPLY, I INFER...... I got it! Now... can't we just all get along? he he he he he he.... ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 11:14:48 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: JW, Jim, Mike Subject: Dictionary Wars Message: Being the liberal minded person that I am, I vote for Webster's more lenient lexicology, and offer this tidbit from Sherlock: ''Where a malicious act is proved, a malicious intention is implied.'' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 11:24:42 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Dictionary Wars Message: Gerry, Your example supports JW's and my position. The intention is implied on behalf of an assumed implier. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 11:44:25 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Dictionary Wars Message: ''Where a malicious act is proved, a malicious intention is implied.'' No, no! One deduces (infers) the intention from the act. Seems pretty clear to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 19:03:09 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Sorry, wrong Message: No, no! One deduces (infers) the intention from the act. Seems pretty clear to me. Yes, you're right. One does deduce the intention from the act, however that's not what the sentence is about. The sentence is about the unspoken agent who's IMPLYING the malicious intention. Get it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 19:34:22 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Occam's razor dulled Message: The sentence is about the unspoken agent who's IMPLYING the malicious intention. Jim, are you still playing with imaginery friends? Mine was named Shumako. I think he grew up to be a jockey at Aqueduct. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 22:17:47 (EST)
From: DV Email: Fricking lawyers... To: Gerry Subject: Occam's razor dulled Message: .content. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 20:10:15 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: My fault Message: Sorry, Gerry, my fault for not explaining your error more clearly. Where a malicious act is proved, a malicious intention is implied. means, but doesn't spell out (i.e. it only implies): Where a malicious act is proved, a malicious intention is implied [by the actor] Again, it's the unspoken 'actor' who's doing the implying. Now do you see? In other words, it would be improper to say: When a malicious act is proved to me, I imply a malicious intention. In that case, it would have to be 'infer'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 21:00:21 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: San Andreas' fault Message: When a malicious act is proved to me, I imply a malicious intention. This certainly would be incorrect usage, Herr Heller. But perhaps he means: When a malicious act is proved, a malicious intent is inferred, that is, deduced by the one who has ''proved the malicious intent. Herr Gerhard, whose head is spinning mildly. (Not don't infer anything from that. I'm not implying anything.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 12:25:09 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Dictionary Wars Message: Gerry: Thanks for the vote of confidence..... he he he he. Man, will 'I' ever be careful from now on, not about 'what' I say, but 'how' I say it..... he he he. ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 12:47:58 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Mike Subject: Dictionary Wars Message: You're welcome, Mike. It's not often I take on two gifted wordsmiths like Jim and JW and win. Did I win? Oh well, I'll take the booby prize for trying. :-) BTW, you express yourself clearly and concisely, IMO. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 20:17:03 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: This Just In -- BM in Japan Message: I noticed that Henry Reif reports on enjoyinglife that Maharaji spoke last night at an event in Japan which was for people 'with knowledge.' A 'capacity crowd' of a whopping 432 people showed up in Kyoto to see him. He spoke for 'just over' and hour and a half. According to Henry, Maharaji said that 'participation is the expression of one's inspiration' and that he used Mozart, Van Gogh and Beethoven 'as illustrations,' although last I heard, those people never received knowledge. What they were was incredibly talented at what they did. But Maharaji did apparently reveal one item that is both shocking and inspiring news. He said he sensed 'a transistion to a new phase: that we currently stand at a threshold, poised to take a major step.' What COULD that MEAN??? Must say, I think I have heard him say this before. The big event is always just around the corner. Of course that one in 1973 in Houston which was supposed to be the most significant event in the history of the world, turned out bo be kind of a dud! He also said that Maharaji said he had heard lots of expressions of gratitude from aspirants and premies and said he would like to publish some of them. [And sell them for $39.95 per copy no doubt.] God, things are REALLY moving in the Maharaji world. By the way, Henry, if you read this, I think I lived with you in the Washington DC ashram in 1979. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 22:13:08 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: All Subject: This Just In -- BM in Japan Message: A prediction: Goober--shameless as he is--will pull a complete about face and come out on the internet in a big way. EnjoyingtheCult.org was just a way to ease into it. An ice breaker. Testing the waters, so to speak. We'll see: Downloadable audio of the BM (for a fee, of course, chargeable on line to your credit card) Downloadable video of the BM's latest escapades. (for a fee, of course, chargeable on line to your credit card) Live chat with the BM (for a fee, of course, chargeable on line to your credit card) Bitstream darshan (for a fee, of course, chargeable on line to your credit card) Webcams in every room of his Malibu castle (for a fee, of course, chargeable on line to your credit card) And the Ultimate devotee treasure--shit stained undies from BM--Divine crop circles! (very very expensive) Yes, indeed, this is the dawn of a new era for BM. The possibilities (for profit) are endless! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 02:10:48 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Gerry Subject: This Just In -- BM in Japan Message: LOL! Gerry, that was great, and it is obvious that K gave you certain psychic abilities! I think that you are actually right on the money (as it were). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 08:26:48 (EDT)
From: Rick Email: None To: Gerry Subject: This Just In -- BM in Japan Message: Best laugh I've had in days. Thanks, Gerry. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Oct 22, 1998 at 23:12:51 (EDT)
From: Dievine Email: None To: JW Subject: This Just In -- BM in Japan Message: I lived there too. I will say this- the Edgemoor Lane crew- (men) was a most unique group of lovable guys. There was one guy Fletcher- what a legend. He did formal meditation( eyes must be closed) all the way to the hall. About 4 blocks. Across Wisconsin Ave. Our community coordinator loved it. I used to follow him. I figured his karmic backdraft would get me across too. It did. kept my eyes open anyway. All the guys I respect to this day- in spite of all we go thru. I enjoy seeing them occasionally. Hell, who could forget Reepicheep? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 10:41:59 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Dievine Subject: Fletcher!!! Message: Dievine: THAT was his name.... I have been trying to remember his name for months and you just said the magic word! Thanks! I could remember his cherub-like face, but.... well I could go on and on. Yeah, you are right, Fletcher was a really nice guy and a very dedicated premie. Obviously, he left an impression with me. ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:09:30 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Mike and Dievine Subject: Fletcher Message: If his name was Fletcher Drake, I lived in a premie house with him for a while. He was the housefather and a really wonderful person. He helped me a lot with a problem that I had while I was living there, and I'll never forget how much that meant to me. He had a son named Jason who also lived with us, and was a great kid. Unfortunately, I did hear on the forum that he died a year or two ago - a heart attack, I think. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:22:58 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Katie Subject: Fletcher (off-topic) Message: Katie: That saddens me to here that he died. He really was a wonderful person. Yes, K or no-K, I think he would have been a good friend to just about anyone (he just had that kind of personality, I think). I, obviously, had a great deal of respect for him. :-( Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:55:33 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Dievine Subject: DC Memories Message: there was one guy Fletcher- what a legend. He did formal meditation( eyes must be closed) all the way to the hall. About 4 blocks. Across Wisconsin Ave. Our community coordinator loved it Yes, I remember Fletcher too, and the other guys in the DC ashram, who were very nice people. I do recall Henry could be a little intense. Remember ChoCho Fisher? When I was community coordinator in DC, she was the office assistant. She advised me that Henry should only be allowed to 'coordinate the potatoes.' I don't think the cc who 'loved it' (Fletcher's walking meditation), was me. Are you referring to Andy Harris? BTW -- Andy lives in Northern California and married a South American woman. He's also an ex-premie. The cc after me was David Horsford so I guess it could have been him. So, you much also know John, another DC ashram grad and an ex-premie who posted on the forum for a long time, but hasn't been around recently. Speaking of the DC hall in Bethesda, shortly after getting to DC the building was sold and we had to find a new hall. After a lot of looking, I found that place in Rockville, near White Flint Mall, above a Chinese restaurant. The hall was great, but the place always smelled like Peking Duck! I remember also finding that house on Brixton Lane. That was when all the communities were getting 'residences' for Maharaji. We fixed the place up, and only a few premies were allowed to live there. Then when Maharaji came to town he stayed there. You know who I wonder about sometimes? Dennis Murphy's parents. I understand Dennis, who was M's cook for awhile and an initiator, still goes to programs and lives in Hawaii. His parents were also premies and very sweet people who lived in DC. I think his father was a psychiatrist. Are they still around? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 13:07:28 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: DC Memories (off-topic) Message: JW: I remember almost every single name that you mentioned.... BOOM, what a memory flood! Yes, Andy was the cc during my stay in DC. I'm trying to remember who the ashram cook was... man he made GREAT Linguini! He was pretty intense, but a really nice guy too. Before transferring to DC for shore-duty, I would come up from Norfolk and stay at a Silver Spring premie house that John and the Gold's used to run. We would go to satsang at the hall in Bethesda (i forget the name of the road, but the hall was at the end of it or on a sweeping corner...i can't quite picture it). Boy, my memory is getting a great workout today!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 12:12:50 (EDT)
From: Dievine Email: None To: JW Subject: DC Memories Message: Actually, It was Randy Stein, coordinator until being whisked off to the broad ripple. He always had a great sense of humor about everything. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Oct 25, 1998 at 00:51:46 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Dievine Subject: DC Memories Message: Hi Dievine - I remember Randy Stein real well - I always liked him a lot. When I was in DC he had to perform several weddings and always ended up making them sound slightly like comedy routines. I also, very vaguely remember Henry (it's been over twenty years, please). There's a New Riders' song with a line 'Henry put your brakes on on this corner if you please', that always reminds me of him. Now, I wonder who are YOU? Do I know you? Jeff Schrieber is posting on the prmie forum and enjoing life page - dids you know him? No need to answer, but I'm curious. Regards, Katie (a.k.a. Mischa) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Oct 27, 1998 at 00:30:50 (EST)
From: DieVine(DV) Email: DC memories To: Katie Subject: DC Memories Message: Yea, I e-mailed you a hello the other week. Sorry I haven'y reponded yet to your reply, been busy and wanted to take time to answer. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 06:47:37 (EDT)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: JW Subject: Threshold 26 years ago Message: Here's what the Lord said at a festival in America (Colorado?) in 1971 or 1972. It's from memory but it's about right: 'Time is coming soon when the world will see a great, strange thing happening. Many far out things happening and people will know WHO is God and not only that but they will know God exists.' Now this together with him saying previously about the child crawling towards the fire and how could God just watch etc; well all of this was a clear indication of who he (thought) he was. Now around the mid seventies I was beginning to wonder just when this great, strange thing was going to start happening and just when exactly, people would start to realise who was God. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:09:56 (EDT)
From: Mel Bourne Email: mbvictoria@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: This Just In -- BM in Japan Message: JW He was probably making a comment of the current Japanese financial situation and how it will effect the world economy! Nothing cosmic! Seems ex-premies haven't given up the old premie trait of looking for Apocalyptic interpretations of what M has to say! Regards Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:25:35 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Bwah ha ha Message: Mel: Gimme a break! Since when has M discussed the state of financial markets with premies? Jeez.... you are really stretching for that one (unless you were joking, of course)! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:53:52 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Mike Subject: Bwah ha ha Message: The Lord knoweth all things. Ha ha ha ! I thought it was one of the sillier statement I've read here for a while, too. And Mel says I'm delusional. Wonder if he's already put in his order for the poo-poo undies? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:03:47 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Bwah ha ha Message: Gerry: You know, I was thinking (what???? not again... oh no). Despite M's obvious disdain for the internet (I think EVERYONE will agree with that statement), I really do admire the 'guts' of the premies that post here. They are 'possibly' violating M's wishes, so I guess my comments about cowardice were a little out of line. I don't like the fact that they don't answer questions clearly, but at least they are here.... That's a start. Oh, Jeez, I must be 'feeling' again... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:25:33 (EDT)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Mike Subject: Bwah ha ha Message: Mike, I think that after years of indoctrination, premies may be constitutionally incapable of answering questions or challenges clearly. It takes a lot of 'gettin' over with' to remove the strain of cult think from the brain. And maybe it never leaves completely. I never realized this was such a huge mind fuck. That is, until I found this site. I had pretty much forgotten about it on the conscious level. But there it was. Some of my earliest posts showed my own damage from the cult. It was kinda hairy confronting all this cult baggage from the past, at first. I guess I could lighten up on the premies who post here. I'm really not attacking them personally (not their ''true'' selves whatever that means) but their CULT PERSONA. I'm sure that for the most part, these are fine, sincere people, trying to experience the ephemeral dream we all pursued at one time. Let's face it, the cult has a way of taking over one's thinking, to say the least. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:31:36 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: This Just In -- BM in Japan Message: He was probably making a comment of the current Japanese financial situation and how it will effect the world economy! Mel, I'm going to assume you were being sarcastic when you made this statement. The alternative assumption is just too lucidcrous to believe. Seems ex-premies haven't given up the old premie trait of looking for Apocalyptic interpretations of what M has to say! Gee, wonder why that might be. Thanks for the entertainment, Mel. Regards, JW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:30:40 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: JW Subject: Van Gogh and Knowledge? Message: JW, I think you speak with accuracy when you say that Van Gogh did not receive knowledge. He kept very detailed letters of his actions and his feelings about religion and life. I have read all of these that have been published and there is no mention of knowledge or an Indian master contained within. Van Gogh was a minister for a protestant church before choosing to spend his life painting. I can't comment on Beetoven or Mozart.(snicker! snicker!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:36:22 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: VP Subject: Van Gogh Exhibit -- Off Topic Message: Speaking of Van Gogh, I just heard that the Van Gogh exhibit that is currently at the National Gallery in Washington is going to Los Angeles after the first of the year. I will definitely fly down there for that!! San Francisco tried to get it too, but couldn't get insurance because the DeYoung Museum isn't earthquake safe. Speaking of other art news. I just saw the Alexander Calder exhibit at the SF Museum of Modern Art. It was absolutely fantastic. His work is fascinating, beautiful and some of it made me laugh at the same time. There is also a Deibenkorn exhibit going on there as well, which is also great. So much for art news! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:45:02 (EDT)
From: VP Email: None To: JW Subject: Van Gogh Exhibit -- Off Topic Message: I was going to see it in DC, but there are no advance tickets left. (I'm not going all that distance to take a chance on tickets at the dooor) If you let me know when they start selling advance tickets in LA, I will see it there instead. I doubt I will ever make it to Holland. I'm jealous that you got to see Calder--some of it IS really funny. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 18:37:29 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: VP Subject: Van Gogh Exhibit -- Off Topic Message: If you let me know when they start selling advance tickets in LA, I will see it there instead. I doubt I will ever make it to Holland. I just heard about it last night. When I get more details, I'll let you know. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 14:11:00 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: JW Subject: Calder Exhibit -- Off Topic Message: Hey, I went to MOMA Wednesday to see the Calder exhibit and discovered that they are closed on Wednesdays! Is that goofy or what? So, I went to the De Young and saw the Hokusai exhibit, which was very nice, but the Hiroshige exhibit is coming next month, and that will be even better! I do hope to make the Calder, though. Do you think that perhaps Van Gogh was given knowledge by a apostate Mahatma and got the instructions for the 'music' technique terribly confused? ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 15:15:37 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: I 'ear' you! Message: MP: Jeez....what can I say??? LOL LOL. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 18:39:35 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Calder Exhibit -- Off Topic Message: Mickey, I think the Calder exhibit is here until December 6, but I heard rumors it might stay longer, because it isn't going anywhere else. I like to go to MOMA on Thursday evenings. It's actually the only weeknight that it's open. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 12:50:01 (EDT)
From: Selene Email: None To: JW Subject: This Just In -- BM in Japan Message: Let's just hope this big step transition isn't akin to Heaven't Gate's transition of leaving these physical vessels behind! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 14:13:44 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Selene Subject: This Just In -- BM in Japan Message: 'Let's just hope this big step transition isn't akin to Heaven't Gate's transition of leaving these physical vessels behind!' Oooo, then they would have to change their URL to www.notenjoyingmuchofanythinganymore.com ! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 14:20:30 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: You're a peach ;-) (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |