Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 28 | |
From: Oct 30, 1998 |
To: Nov 18, 1998 |
Page: 1 Of: 5 |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 10:31:12 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Dear Jim, I happen to know it is your birthday today and notice it is getting well into the morning and no one had wished you Happy Birthday yet so I hope you don't mind my taking the opportunity to wish you Happy Birthday and a great year to follow. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 11:26:39 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Robyn Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Happy birthday from me too, Jim. You and some of the other old hands here, like Bill, Joe, Brian and the other D@vid (Stirling) were instrumental in showing me what a con trick Maharaji had been playing all these years. Thanks for doing your bit to free those chains that I still had. Thanks for illuminating the truth about Maharaji. We don't agree on everything but then that's what makes life interesting. But on Maharaji, I am DEFINITELY in agreement with you. Oh yes, bye the way, a copy of a video has been reserved for you. Just email me your address and I'll get it off to you. Not sure if you have NTSC or PAL format in Canada but it can be transfered over. All the best, David. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 11:28:28 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Yeah, Happy Birthday, fellow Scorpio-snicker. Thanks for helping get this place started. Have a great year! Sincerely, VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 12:06:09 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: VP Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Thanks guys. Thanks a lot. David, you can send the video to: me 7 - 547 Herald Street Victoria, B.C. Canada V8W 1S5 Our format's the same as the States' whatever that is. Funny how I don't feel a day over 44. This knowledge must really be working! Still, I'm going back to bed. Thanks again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 12:16:44 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Jim Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Happy birthday, big guy! Keep kicking ass.. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 12:11:10 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Thanks for being here. You've been a big help in my recovery from the madness of M. Have a Happy, Jerry Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 12:24:04 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Happy birthday, Jim! You sweet little old thang! (you can decide if that's backhanded or not). Seriously, thanks for all you do around here. Lots of love, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 12:46:10 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Thanks for 'giving me satsang' and showing me how it was all done. You tore the mystique right off of the trip when you did that. I could almost hear Oz saying 'Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain'. That was a big turning point for me. Like Sir D said, we don't always agree, but that really isn't important. The big picture is that we've recovered our sanity. I thank you for your contributions to this website. You are very committed to its cause and I admire you for that. Hope you & Laurie have a wonderful celebration whether it be out on the town or at home. Just remember don't sit in any vampire's laps. A copy of John Cleese's 'How to Annoy People' is on its way. (; Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 12:49:48 (EST)
From: seymour Email: None To: jim Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Many happy returns, Jim. Have a good one. All the best, Seymour Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 15:28:53 (EST)
From: RT Email: call me email To: JIM Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim bo. Message: Happy Breathday to you Happy Breathday to you Happpy Breathday you ol Scorpio and thanks for the news. RT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 20:16:43 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Jim Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Happy Berthday to yooooooo Hippy Bartdei for yooooooo Snappy Barfday dear Jeemie Happy Purseday at yoooooooo Fr. M. T. Pharisee Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 20:28:15 (EST)
From: Saul Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Happy Birthday to Jim my favorite poster. I think of you like one of those Zen masters who whacks people with a big stick to get them out of their foggy delusions. Saul Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 20:38:15 (EST)
From: david m Email: None To: Jim Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Hey Jim...Many thanks for getting the whole ball a rolling......and i hope you have a great day...peace dave Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 12:35:08 (EST)
From: Laura Email: None To: Jim Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Hope you had a wonderful birthday. I appreciate your posts very much. They are always insightful and well thought out. I would like to with you peace and happiness in your life, those concepts are still O.K., right? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 01:05:37 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Jim Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Dear Jim, I just had to chime in here: Happy Birthday!!! Your efforts are truly appreciated. Lots of love, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 14:33:17 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: eb Subject: Thanks again, guys Message: Last night was great. We played downstairs at this new late night cafe in the building. Fun, lots of. Late... little sleep... smile... Thanks again guys. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 20:22:10 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: Jim Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Sorry I missed the day, but it sounds like you had a good one! Adding to everybody else, thanks very much for all that you do around here and your commitment to exposing the truth about the Big M. Like it or not, you are a bit of an institution around here (and I mean that in the nicest possible way!) love, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 22:09:16 (EST)
From: Diz Email: None To: TD Subject: Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Hey, do they let stirrers like you have birthdays? Enjoy. Love and peace Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Nov 16, 1998 at 19:56:01 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: (Belated) Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Sorry I missed your birthday, Jim, but weekends this place is off limits for me so I didn't know. How old did you say you are? Many happy returns. By the way, I'm going to see John Cleese and Richard Dawkins, in person, together, this Wednesday. It's called 'An Uncommon Conversation.' I also noticed Dawkins is doing another presentation here in March. What is Dawkins book 'Unweaving the Rainbow' about? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Nov 16, 1998 at 20:35:48 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: (Belated) Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Joe, Thanks and no, I didn't say. Hell, you guys all know though, right? I mean the numbers speak for themselves. 19 in 73...makes me what? 32? Yeah, something like that. Boy did we have fun! Played through the night. The funniest moment was straight out of a movie. The cops showed up to bust some guy walking down the street drunk and disorderly. They hear something happening in Colin's place (the cafe/late night spot down below my apartment) and I hear about this and try to keep everyone inside. I'm talking (softly) on the mike and some guy comes up and tells me it's his birthday too. Shows me his ID and I then get everyone to sing happy birthday to him. What's so funny is that at that moment exactly the cops had been grilling my friend as to what's going on (he's had a couple of noise complaints althought none that night and besides, we're in a warehouse district, aren't we?). He's telling them 'hey, we're just having a birthday party. for Jim Heller, in fact. You know him. [crim lawyer, small town]. They go 'yeah, right' then suddenly, as if on cue, everyone starts singing 'Happy Birthday' from inside. The cops can't help but laugh and take off. Talk about grace or what? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 12:56:05 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jim Subject: Great story, Jim Message: Even Peter thought it was funny, although I didn't tell it very well. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 09:23:12 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JW Subject: (Belated) Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Which birthday was this? he he .... remember? One more year at his feet, etc. With all the best. Did you get any present? Is this also a tradition in Canada? Some beautiful/amazing meditation experience, darshan dream? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 12:26:31 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jim Subject: (Belated) Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Hope you have another great year ahead. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 12:53:39 (EST)
From: gErRy Email: None To: Gail Subject: (Belated) Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Holy heck, Jim! Happy B-Day! Missed it the first time around, I try to limit my time here on the weekends, also (as JW said.) Colin's Cafe...I believe we popped in there for a minute last summer, no? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 14:24:46 (EST)
From: hamzen Email: None To: gErRy Subject: (Belated) Happy Birthday, Jim! Message: Grace indeed! But then she always was georgeous. Oh it's your birthday, oh your forty something and you're still going for it, thanks for the inspiration. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 10:01:09 (EST)
From: Adole Email: None To: Everyone Subject: some details Message: As to answer some more questions being asked: dashan was also a practise of our nigerian guru.it was mostly held on festivals after the speech of him. you normally presented M a flower and kneel in front of him and kiss his feet.sometimes when the 'grace' was with you he gave you a flower or something to eat like peanuts or a fruit. We also had festivals like mother earth day or the entry of the golden age.at golden age every premie who wanted to enter this age had to shave his head and rub pepper on it. in fact nigerian pepper was everywhere. we had to eat a whole lot of it everyday.M said that it will help us clean ourselves from all evil spirits and be able to meditate properly. I still wonder today that I havent got a stomach disease after all this hot treatment. we also had to inhale burned pepper. when an ashrampremie caught you sleeping in the ashram mostly in the satsang hall he would beat you with a stick or give you some pepper treatment. either in form of inhaling it or they would make you go naked and rub the whole stuff on your body and even inside your body. on many occasions M called out a week of deep concentration. that meant that every premie was forbidden to eat or drink anything during the whole day, and had to meditate the whole time. When anything politically happened in the world which M didnt like we premies had to meditate on it so that the world wouldnt stop moving around. If I think of that today I cant help but laughing. such a stupid nonsense. M always said that his premies are his soldiers. There were many altars in the ashrams(like at home)and ashrampremies allways collected the old water from the flowervases and poured it in a big container.Either you had to drink it like this or it was cooked with pepper and the old flowers and you had to drink it as 'Maharji tea'. It was told to us that this liquid would help to clean ourselves from all kinds of sickness and evil thoughts. You always had to take your shoes off before entering an ashram. Premies had to give satsang as often as possible. And no matter what nonsense you said on this satsang chair, all other people had to listen. You also had to wear pictures or buttons of maharaji on your clothes, so that everybody on the street knew you were a follower. It was also forbidden to see a doctor or to take medicine of any kind. If you do that you are considered weak and evil. They always said that M could heal all diseases. So we refused to take any medicine.Iam shortsighted and had to wear glasses, but in the ashram it was forbidden for me to wear them. As I was told they were instruments of the devil and Iam just to weak, thats why Iam still shortsighted.What a nonsense! I have started writing a book already about my life with M and now that I participate in this forum, so many of the things that I have just tried to press away from me are coming back to my memory and I will surely use them all in my book. I also told my sister about this page and we had a good talk today mentioning all those things that we didnt even wanted to think off again.But this forum helps me and her to work on our minds and we are both happy that we are not the only ones who excpirienced such things. Well in austria we are the only ones, but it helps a lot knowing that there are many of you out there! Till next time Adole Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 10:46:37 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Adole Subject: What a monster Message: Your Guru M sounds like a total monster--with incredibly abusive practices.-how frightening for you your sister and his other followers. Is he still an active guru?. This is giving me the chills. THat is great that you and your sister are talking about the memories, and that you are writing a book. If you need any advice about getting it published I'd be glad to advise--I know a little about it. . I for one will be first in line to buy it and read it! Glad you are posting here, Adole God bless you, glad you are still here, Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 12:00:09 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Adole Subject: the big question Message: Adole, Please tell us about whatever 'experience' you 'premies' would claim to have following your 'guru'. What were the spiritual goals you talked about? And where did you all think your guy got his authority? And what about doubts and the mind? How were you trained to handle these? Finally, did anyone ever get whiff of the existance of one of the other Guru Maharaj Ji's floating around? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 04:20:46 (EST)
From: Uli Email: borisuli@telecom.at To: Adole Subject: the sister Message: Hi everyone, hi my dear sister. Well, as for me, there's nothing more to add to the points my sister (Adole) has already written. I guess, its just all stuck inside of us. As she said already, we would never have guessed, there were other people with the same or a very similar past. I am quite happy we are able to talk to people who know what we went through. Who would have thought, that 8 years later we are able to tell people about this - great. Anyway, since my sister is the better writer, it'll be up to her to inform you guys about the 'detailed details' - lol - and I will be glad to read your messages to it. Adole - I don't quite understand why you chose this forsaken name for this site, but I'm sure you have your reasons .. although, your real name is much more lovely :-)) Kisses Uli Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 20:42:29 (EST)
From: And On Anand Ji Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com To: Everyone Subject: test conference site is online Message: Test Conference Jim was asking me about stuff (that sums it up, don't it?) so my answer will be other stuff. The above link takes you to CommunityWare, and the conference I have set up there. I've never tried to get in, but the password is 'fessup' -- at some point it will ask for that. You'll have to get one of their free memberships to sign into the test conference -- it's no biggie and you don't have to give your real name or address even though they ask for it. I wouldn't use up a good 'nickname' for yourself in case you want to lurk; save your favorite nickname for when you're ready to establish a long-term identity. This is just set up so you can see another kind of conferencing system at work -- it is a well thought-out design. I think you'll agree there's potential there. By the way they have chatrooms, and I think they're private. The test conference is private, that's why you need the password: 'fessup'. Let me know if you visit there, and if you liked it. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 20:53:40 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: And On Anand Ji Subject: What's the point though? Message: I still don't see what the advantage is in any of this? I asked you about that under 'No, you've lost me'. What's the point, Ji? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 22:14:47 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jim Subject: What's the point though? CHAT Message: Hi AOAJi and Jim - I tested AOAJi's conference site, and even left a message, but I can't find my message now. Anyway, I think it would be a great site for chat. Runamok and I discussed setting up a chat room for exes a few months ago. The problem was that Brian and I didn't want to do it, Runamok didn't have time, and none of the other exes showed any interest in being the controlling party (who would set up, maintain, and - I assume - monitor) the site. If AoAJi can do that, I think several of the exes would be interested in a chat room. I've never personally participated in a chat room so I don't know what they're like, but my impression is that what's said there is more ephemeral than on the forum. This might be great - especially if two people wanted to go off topic, or if two people wanted to REALLY flame each other (just imagine the possibilities), or if two people just wanted to talk w/out the delay. So lead on AOAJi! I do think the chat room is the best feature of your conferencing site so far, but if you want to keep the whole dang thing open, it's OK with me. Regards, Katie (oops, that's MsKatie to you) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 12:42:03 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Katie Subject: CHAT Message: Altho, it would be easier to go straight to a chat room rather than through another site with a forum. Just a plain chat room is what you can find on the Grateful Dead site, for example (dead.net), as well as others. The site OAO rounded up for us looks good but the stuff they have on there is redundant since this place is up and partying already. Also, it will take some time for it to get going over there, so I hope OAO hangs tight. Maybe they can streamline it down to a chat room by special request.. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 12:15:09 (EST)
From: Runamok, Email: None To: And On Anand Ji Subject: test conference site is online Message: Having chat online for exes is an exellent idea. However, ex-premies should be aware that ANY information in the registration form will be public- not just the information you choose to disclose publicly or not. Judging from the amount of people on line there, there is a great deal of interest. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 14:34:45 (EST)
From: And On Anand Ji Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com To: Runamok, Subject: test conference site is online Message: Absolutely, Run - it isn't designed to be anonymous. They don't enforce disclosure of reals: real name, real city etc. but they do ask for them. I suggest using something you don't mind abandoning, such as test123 Ji or something -- you cannot change the mapping between 'real name' and 'online name' and they're never erased -- you'll end up signing up, again, under your real name some day, perhaps. Or a better pseudonym than the one you chose today! I would like to see the ex-premies take a few field trips to other well-known (and free!) conferencing systems, to get a larger view about the possibilities here. I expect some of them will stay on those other systems, in addition to their visits here. Both of these efforts will bring social dividends to ex-premie.org; it will make better conferees of anyone willing to put in the effort. Better conferencing skills means a direct increase in the effectiveness of the message ex-premie.org communicates. -- The CommunityWare platform is an excellent implementation of all that is presently known about web-based conferencing. Most of the good tools are available. I'd urge you to experiment freely with CommunityWare -- their only requirement is that within 30 days you somehow convince six people to visit what you've created, else it is deleted (with no further penalty). Since it is completely about people-to-people communication, this isn't such a hardship requirement. I think if people put in some effort and experiment there, they will get some good ideas about the possibilities; just as in human dwellings, architecture does play a significant role in how people relate to each other within the designed space! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 20:22:48 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: All Subject: New Site Message: What this means is ex-premies can meet and talk in real time, live. Personally, I don't think it has anything else to offer BUT the addition of a live chatroom is a big bonus. If exes go on the site say while online posting here, they would easily run into others and could talk with even more informality than the forum. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 18:51:30 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Paranoia,XLurkers&theCult Message: This thread continues the last few postings on the page. That thread is very long and meandering, starting with THE GOSPEL OF JOHN THOMAS. In considering what the hell is going on around this place, I remember very vividly feeling in danger, or questioning my safety in regard to publicly speaking out against M, throughout the 80's. The internet has really changed that, but some of us have faced this predicament yet I never see any postings on it. While M has his 'enemies' and paints us black to his followers, I really didn't consider the media a safehaven and as yet the internet was practically non-existent. I considered speaking out a potentially dangerous action and semi-public situations (among premies, peers or similar groups) didn't seem particularly socially acceptable either. I would like to hear more from others who experienced this AND from those who didn't. This is relevant to anonymity, lurking and general issues of netiquette among ex-premies because we all haven't had a 'common' experience in getting here. Isn't that nice that we're not all the same? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 19:38:11 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Paranoia,XLurkers&theCult Message: In considering what the hell is going on around this place, I remember very vividly feeling in danger, or questioning my safety in regard to publicly speaking out against M, throughout the 80's. The internet has really changed that, but some of us have faced this predicament yet I never see any postings on it. I never have felt in any danger, and, except in some personal circumstances, like if someone has acquaintances who are particularly derranged premies, I think it's pretty much irrational. Now, I don't have any premie friends, for example, so I don't risk losing them as friends, either. I felt hesitant to post on the forum at the very beginning. Not because I felt in danger or anything like that, but because I wasn't sure I wanted to re-open the whole Maharaji can of worms. I wasn't sure I wanted to think about and talk about that whole period of my life again which I remember with a lot of pain. But now I'm glad I did start talking about it, because it's really been helpful. I considered speaking out a potentially dangerous action and semi-public situations (among premies, peers or similar groups) didn't seem particularly socially acceptable either. Is this a fear that some premie might attack you in some way? How do you think speaking out might be potentially dangerous? I do think that for many of us the programming about Maharaji was SO great, that there are still vestages of 'automatic thinking' that goes on that still considers him all-powerful and the superior power in person, even though we know intellectually that's bullshit. So, sometimes, I think some ex-premies might still have an automatic reaction of fear in publicly criticizing Maharaji. It isn't rational, it's more emotional. It's also bullshit and the more you publicly say what you feel, the more it dies. And certainly that's a reason that some wavering premies lurk only and don't post, and if they do, as far as I have seen, most of them are absolutely paranoid about anonymity. They really are scared. That's because, in my opinion, they have lots of fear associated with Maharaji, and they may have something to lose in terms of approval from the group, premie friends, etc. As I said on a post below, fear is thick among the premies in Maharji's world. You can't expect not to carry some of that with you after you leave. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 20:17:03 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: JW Subject: Paranoia,XLurkers&theCult Message: I must be paranoid then, JW. Every once in a while I do think about how safe it is for me to post here. I don't fear M personally. I don't think he is dangerous at all. Deranged (sp?) premies could be. One of them posted threats to Jim on here recently and I confess, it was unsettling. Remember the security guard in the LOTU video who said he would kill for Maharaji? There are some real nuts in the world. On the other hand, I have probably watched too many movies. I don't want to discourage anyone from posting here. You were right when you said it is helpful. Many people here use their real names and nothing bad has happened to them. So, my conclusion is that we are safe, even if I feel paranoid sometimes. If someone is afraid or doesn't want anyone in their community to know they are posting, they can always use an anonymous handle. P.S. Off topic: Congratulations on the resignation of Newt. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 20:53:40 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: VP Subject: Paranoia,XLurkers&theCult Message: It's really tiny, the Maharaji cult. It really is so small and insignificant that the only people who are remotely familiar with it are those of us who got trapped in it. I spoke to an estate agent friend of mine today, Abdul who is a Muslim. We were talking about ways to make money and I said, well you can always start your own religious cult. I was joking. But then Abdul went on about some Indian Guru who has got a private plane and who screws around with his young female devotees and takes large amounts of money off his followers etc etc and I thought he was talking about Maharaji. But he was talking about some other Indian guru who made it bif in the west and eventually got thrown out of the USA. Abdul has never heard of our Maharaji. I had a friend who was a premie but he's not talking to me now since he first saw my posts here last year. It's a pity. And as I have seen it, that's the most that happens to ex-premies - they find themselves sent to Coventry (ignored) by the premies. But talking about threats and the like; it's been my experience that people who make threats just like to make threats. ANd that's it. Now the real heavy characters in this world don't make threats. They've hit you before you even know it! Most of the violent premies that were around in the seventies are long gone. They were trapped in the cult like we all were but left it during the mass exodus of the eighties. The die=hard old premies who are left are not the violent type, by and large. They're also middle aged and probably past it. Also a lifetime of being brainwashed by the cult would have made them somewhat timid of resorting to violence. All the guys I used to know in the late eighties who were in the cult were more into getting stoned, rather than resorting to violence. But one final and very important thing; most premies are OK guys/girls. They are not the violent, nasty and threatening types. It's Maharaji who is the nasty one. Most of the premies are nice people and certainly don't need to be feared. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 21:01:03 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Paranoia,XLurkers&theCult Message: Most of the premies are nice people and certainly don't need to be feared. Thanks, David. I agree with that statement. Like I said, I have probably seen one too many movies!:) I had a friend who was a premie but he's not talking to me now since he first saw my posts here last year. It's a pity. And as I have seen it, that's the most that happens to ex-premies - they find themselves sent to Coventry (ignored) by the premies. That is why I don't use my real name: Fear of going to Coventry. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 11:49:29 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: all Subject: InternetEx-Security Message: The tougher call was to call it quits. I can't see saying that the premies are nice- they are relatvely harmless today maybe so. Leaving the cult probably has made us stronger as individuals. For many of us it was not a big decision. It was more like throwing the last box of 'maybes' in the closet. The internet certainly brings some safety to speaking out that never existed before. THAT'S where feeling safe is really at. Exes have my address and phone number but lurking gurunoids have to guess. I also bring this up because of why I post and what I want to do here. I spent well over a decade alone with this. I don't feel really confessional about it. It's too late for reassuring pats on the back and their verbal equivalents. Anonymity is a habit but it's also posture that has worked for a long time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 23:31:20 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Watch your back if you post Message: here. You are wise to remain anonymous! I wish I had (in a way). I guess 'they're out to get me.' I got a call from a friend in Toronto about a month ago. I guess there are fund-raiser meetings being held here in Canada. These meetings also include the following: a) Don't go out on the ex-premie web site. b) Don't have anything to do with anyone who posts on this ex- premie site. c) We are going to deal with people who post on the net. We are going to 'get them', so they better watch out. Nice, eh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 23:43:03 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Gail Subject: Watch your back if you post Message: Like I say, it really didn't always seem physically safe to come out against M. It's safe now, but that's a function of the internet and M is relatively weak. My finger is to the wind on that call. I really am not in touch with premies. The few people that I occasionally run into have left or are very apathetic. Maybe some of the have avoided me all this time, I dunno. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 23:46:27 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gail Subject: Watch your back if you post Message: Gail, that's awful! I've rarely been paranoid about posting on here because I hadn't been involved in a while, but hearing something like that would really scare me. I hope you are OK. It's hard for me to understand why premies would feel the need to say something like that - is their belief in M really so fragile that this puny little website can threaten them - or him? Take care of yourself. Love, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Nov 16, 1998 at 06:04:16 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Gail Subject: Is this a threat ? Message: Hi Gail! Do you have any idea of who said this, where and when ? We are going to deal with people who post on the net. We are going to 'get them', so they better watch out. Who is *we* ???? What kind of *people* don't they like? Watch out for what? That's interesting! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Nov 16, 1998 at 12:14:13 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Gail Subject: Watch your back if you post Message: Gail: Re: c) We are going to deal with people who post on the net. We are going to 'get them', so they better watch out. Any chance that threat was documented? I feel like I've already been had anyway. A lawsuit for defamation or something would invariably involve discovery, to demonstrate the truth or untruth of claims made against him, about his use of funds, tax liabilities, etc. That ought to be interesting. I guess M. is no longer worried about being publicly visible after all, huh? As though he has any clout beyond his little enclave. They probably intend to excommunicate us. -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Nov 16, 1998 at 18:33:21 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Watch your back if you post Message: Are you really so surprised? What did you expect? A little character assasination ... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Nov 16, 1998 at 22:49:48 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Gail Subject: Watch your back if you post Message: Gail, Your post was frightening. Who told you that? (If you can tell.) I hope you are ok. Spiritual enlightenment is supposed to free you from hate, isn't that true? It seems like they are trying to scare people away from this site. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Nov 16, 1998 at 23:00:05 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: VP Subject: Paranoia galore Message: Yes!!!the CIA IS AFTER GAIL! i 'll bet ya she was on the grassy knoll... seriously, Gail won't be able to back this up with facts! she likes to make up these little stories Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Nov 16, 1998 at 23:33:26 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Orlando Subject: Paranoia galore Message: Hi, Orlando! Why would any premies want to hurt Gail or any of the Canadian premies? Do you think they are just trying to scare them away from posting? Why don't you think that she is telling the truth? Interested in your insights, VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 15:46:36 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: VP Subject: to VP...in response Message: Hi VP don`t you know that Canadians (and canadian 'premies') are NICE people??? making threats is just not part of their natural fiber!! what Gail posted is totally ludicrous, and she knows it...and this is why she can't come up with more info... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:37:52 (EST)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Orlando Subject: to VP...in response Message: Obviouslywhat Gail posted is totally ludicrous, and she knows it...and this is why she can't come up with more info.. Not just nNICE but PSYCHIC too. I'm on the first steamboat over. PREMIES ARE SOOOO IMPRESSIVE. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 23:48:29 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Orlando Subject: To Orlando the asshole! Message: You wanted more info? Here it is. Why don't you phone this woman here in London, Ontario, and ask her what she meant when she said that I'd better watch it! They [the premies] were going to get me and others who post on the net. They even had a special meeting about the net in Toronto. Here's her name: Madeline Dezelak Phone number: [Deleted by Forum Elves at poster's request] Have you got the guts to call her and find out, asshole? When you're finished, why don't you call me to apologize, or would you rather come to my door with a shotgun. Perhaps the crowbar and hammer is more your style (the American-cult way), Orlando. You seem very proud to tell us where you're from but not who you are? You know the drill well--punch her in the face and hide. What stories have I made up? The internet story? If you want, I can publish the name of every London, Ontario cult member, address, and phone number. You can call each of them. Let me know if you want to. Their perception and mine was that MJ did not want us on this site. BY THE WAY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE? Yours truly Gail C. MacDougall (519) 660-6578 I'll be expecting that apology really soon, or as you Americans say REEEEEL SOON! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 00:36:15 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gail Subject: In defense of Orlando Message: Gail, In defense of Orlando, you've got to remember these guys are stuck in a cult. Their leader is an asshole and sometimes they become assholes too. Like, I bet Orlando's mom isn't an asshole. So, can I change this to 'In defense of Orlando's mom'? Alright I will. I LIKE Orlando's mom. There! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 13:19:57 (EST)
From: Maha FakerAnanda Email: None To: Gail Subject: Gail, you're wrong! Message: You know the drill well--punch her in the face and hide. The drill is--Hit 'em in the head with a hammer when they have their eyes closed and then run. Got it? JSCA, Gerry Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 01:02:11 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Orlando Subject: My kind of guy Message: Yes!!!the CIA IS AFTER GAIL! i 'll bet ya she was on the grassy knoll... seriously, Gail won't be able to back this up with facts! she likes to make up these little stories Hey joker: What's your name? Tune in tomorrow, will ya? 8:00 p.m. EST. Free laughs for everyone. On the house. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 12:02:02 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Orlando Subject: My kind of guy Message: Orlando, Orlando??? Where are you Orlando? I asked you some questions up there...Did you see 'em? Hear are a few more: How do you know Gail makes up stories? Do you know her personally? How well? What stories has she made up? Did I miss something because I do not recall her doing that. Thanks, VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 12:49:51 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Gail Subject: Watch your back if you post Message: Gail, if what your friend is saying is true, then we should publicize this. That people would be making paranoid statements and actual threats against ex-premies in official fundraiser meetings is much more damaging to M and his organization, than anything we do here. Also, if true, it's a strong indication that we are having an impact. That's nice to know. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 13:32:14 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: JW Subject: Watch your back if you post Message: I agree with JW. Also, IMHO (and I have dealt with threats in the past), publicizing threats is one of the best ways to defuse them. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 15:41:27 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Katie Subject: For the record Message: Gail has not responded to everyone's request for further info because she knows she made this little story up...come on, Gail...fess up! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 12:35:02 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Is it possible? Message: Anyone following the Golden Oldie/Bruce discussion on the plain, old regular, hardly-used premie forum will appreciate why I'm starting to doubt that GO is really a premie. Never have I known a modern premie to be so unskittish about using his mind. I don't mean to spoil anyone's practical joke or anything but, really, could this be a premie speaking?: 'Hello Bruce, Just a few points on your post to Katie. Bruce says''To put it simply, Maharaji IS what he claims to be, and IS what he ever claimed to be. '' Does this mean he is God AND greater that God AND a Master AND a humble premie just obeying his master? Could you clarify this? Bruce says''In this regard, you are simply and profoundly WRONG . How do I know? The only way we can really know anything, by experience. '' Experience is personal/subjective. For instance, I hate the taste of olives. Even though most people I know do not hate olives, in my realm of experience 'olives taste bad...and that's the truth'. Bruce says''......knowing who he is and what he is working to do'' Who is he? What is he working to do? Bruce says''Now imagine for a moment that instead of breaking free from MJ. they are trying to get over a painful reltionship with some person. '' Some people go into the devotional way exactly because of that reason(ie a broken love affair). One of Maharaji's most trusted instructors is on the rebound from being rejected by their lover. This is not a criticism of her/him, but you just reminded me of it. Bruce says''I mean. you guys seem to talk about Maharaji more than any premie I know! How can you possibly let go of something your hanging on to so tightly? '' Well, it is a site about Maharaji, so of course the main focus is Maharaji. Isn't that why you read it? Also many of these people did give their all to Maharaji....an experience that many premies don't seem to have. Here's a quote from you 'The only way we can really know anything, by experience.' JSCA Goldie' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 12:04:43 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Another Hallmark Moment Message: How Could I Do That? Darshan tunnels, kissing feet, Seems now to me insane, Thank you all for this here forum, For restoring this here brain. Cardboard cutouts in a trance, Like coneheads saying 'we're from France', I laugh and then say 'What a schnook, I was to bite the Guru hook.' It's not fine, or benign, To lose one's mind, In fact it's a lot like doing time, He's not doing anyone any favors, Robbing life of all its flavors. So all you ex-es, from Australia to Tex-as, We've escaped a trap, That seemed oh so cuddly, but in reality, We sat in the vampire's lap. Love, Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 12:38:05 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Helen Subject: May I? Message: We sat in the vampire's lap. Helen, May I use this line for a song? If yes, may I call it my own and take full credit for it and all that? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 12:45:49 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: May I? Message: SO who'se calling who a vampire? What do ya take me for, a fool? The answer is NO--I want royalties on any money you make off of it, I want full credit for the line in any liner notes on your CDs and I expect you to make me the co-author of the song. My lawyer will be contacting you shortly. Seriously Jim, I've been ripped off before (the company I used to work for made $50,000 off of a curriculum I wrote and I didn't see a dime of that $). So I don't mind your using it but pls give me credit for it. Just say, before you sing it, that the line isn't original. Was your question for real anyway, Jim? I never know how to take you! Well, I never met such a cheeky lad in all my born days! Thanx helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 07:47:19 (EST)
From: Adole Email: benedikt.bros@phreak.co.at To: Everyone Subject: The nigerian Guru Message: Hi all of you! Thanks for your answers.Its good to know, that there are people in this world who really understand what it means to quit following Maharaji and to start living again like a normal human being and not move around like a zombie. To give some more information: Satguru Maharji in Nigeria has following history as it was told to us: He travelled to London somewhere in the 70`s and begann attending the satsangs of Sri Pen Pal Rawat Singh. Then at the moment he received knowledge from Pen Pal he said, that the power went over to him and that he became the new master of the universe. You see, up till two days ago where I came on this page by mistake, I still thougt that Sri Pen Pal is not a practising master anymore since he gave the power ontu my maharji. All lies and more lies. Well, after being the 'new' master maharaji returned to nigeria and started the same work as Sri Pen Pal does. There are about 15 ashrams in nigeria. Most of them I visited. In Lagos, Abouja,Jos,Ibadan,everywhere in the country and nigeria is a large country.There are many rich nigerians who presented him land as a gift where he established his ashrams. I became a follower in 1985 and received knowledge the same way as you all did with those four technics and the paragon in 1986 by maharajji himself.Only he is allowed to give knowledge and we were threatened not to reveal either the technics or to show the paragon to anyone who is not a premie. Otherwise we would go mad. Our lives were just satsang, service and meditation and we had to sing the arti at least five times a day. It was not allowed to eat meat, fish, milk, eggs or any products who contained those things.We were not allowed to drink alcohol,smoke or have sex with anyone except with our husbands and wives and only for the purpose of getting a child.We had to wear only red and white dresses and the women had to wear scarfs at anytime of the day.We were not allowed to shake anyones hands, to watch tv or read newspapers or talk about anything else than maharaji.Sleeping was not allowed too, we had to meditate at least 8 hours a day. To wear blue clothes was a deep sin. Like with your guru it was not obvious that he wanted money, at least they always said, that everything is free. But there were of course shops were you had to buy all those things you needed very badly, like paragons,photos to make the altars at home, or cassettes or leaflets with speeches of maharaji. And if there was a new ashram to built it was naturally that you gave all you had. Maharji is not married, has no children. He always said that as long as the power is with him, he is not allowed to marry.First he wants to finsh his work and when he gives his power on to the next living perfect master he will continue living a normal life. He never wears crowns or things like that, in fact I must say that he is a very thin man and there is no obvious luxury around him. He did scream at some of his ashrampremies sometimes but I have never seen him being real brutal. I spent much time in the ashrams, because I and my sister, and my stepmother ran away from our home to live with maharji and we followed him everywhere in nigeria for a long time. There is so much more to be said, but I guess that would be to long now for the moment.I will come here as often as I can, because it helps me a lot talking about it and reading all of your messages. Sometimes Iam afraid that this wound will never heal, but now I think that you all will help me in my efforts to really set myself free. Love Adole Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 09:08:49 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Adole Subject: No wonder what happened ! Message: Then at the moment he received knowledge from Pen Pal he said, that the power went over to him and that he became the new master of the universe. That's probably when the Prempal lost 'His' power ! Or maybe only some of his 64 powers, maybe he has some left, after all, who knows! I wonder how many powers the Nigerian M claims to have! I heard he went to jail sometime ? Did you read the report on him on the old site ? The whole thing really looks like a joke .... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 11:46:58 (EST)
From: Adole Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: No wonder what happened ! Message: Yes I read that article! But I found an article in an nigerian newspaper from summer this year on the internet. Reading that I had to see that Maharaji is still going on with his work and nobody seems to be really interested to stop him. I hope one day I may be able to go back to nigeria and visit the ashrams to tell him how he destroyed my life and that of many others.My sister nearly died because him and only thinking of it makes me mad again. Adole Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 13:09:50 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Adole Subject: No wonder what happened ! Message: Do you have a copy of this article? Would you post it ? Thanks jm Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 11:19:37 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Adole Subject: The old site's article Message: Go to the old site at: M's Nigerian mimic News: The Nigerian mimic This Page includes two news articles which can be found using the 'Electric Library News Service' on the Web, by keying in the term 'Maharaji'. First Article. Scott: Can you give me a link? Article 1 Nigeria winning drug war, says narcotics chief. Date: Jan. lOt 1996 Author: James Jukwey. Published by: Reuters News Service. LAGOS, Nigeria (Reuter) Nigeria is winning its war against drug abuse and trafficking, the head of the country's Drug Law Enforcement Agency (NDLEA) said Wednesday. 'The all-out offensive launched against sponsors and promoters of drug business has led to an astronomical increase in the number of drug barons in the agency's custody,' Maj. Gen. Musa Bamaiyi told a news conference. He said 27 'drug barons,' including four women, were seized in 1995, up from 10 in 1994. Under a new law on money laundering passed by the military government last June, NDLEA agents have power to arrest anyone who cannot account for their wealth. Since then many dealers in flashy vehicles and other businesses have been detained and their property seized. Among those held was a prominent cult leader known as Sat Guru Maharaji in the westem city of Ibadan. Bamaiyi said he had swom an affidavit saying he spent four billion naira ($50 million) on a camp for his followers. The Guru was freed Tuesday after 37 days in detention. 'That's a lot of money and we had to investigate it,' Bamaiyi said. Editor's note: A member of Maharaji's immediate entourage has stated categorically that based on his first hand observations, the Maharaji referred to above is an impostor. I have also received a note from another premie stating that the Maharaji of Nigeria is a black Nigerian man who has mimicked all of the trappings of Maharaji. Article 2. War Against the Guru: Who is behind it? Date: June 8,1996 Author: Kehinde Bamigbetan. Published by: Theweek, Ethnic NewsWatch SoftLine Information, Inc., Stamford, CT. Who sent officials of Oyo State works and housing ministry to demolish parts of Satguru Maharaj Ji's village? THE USUAL PRACTICE FOR devotees wishing to see Satguru Maharaj Ji, leader of the The One Love Family spiritual group, is to kneel before his door and knock gently to seek permission to see him. But the knock which disrupted Maharaj Ji's meditation in the early hours of June 21 was a desperate one. The devotee at the door had come to alert the spiritual master that a siege was being laid on the holy land. When Maharaj Ji arrived at the scene a few minutes later, he was shocked and saddened by the spectacle before him. Gone was the security gate where his devotees received visitors, the large estate and many other structures which had adorned the side of the village adjacent to the Lagos-Ibadan expressway. Maharaji Ji's presence was of no effect, as the invaders went ahead with the operation. Again and again, the bulldozer sank its metal teeth into the office which served as the waiting room for visitors and crushed the blocks to pieces. The bulldozer's driver, urged on by armed soldiers, moved further down to attack other structures. The demolition team, led by someone who claimed to be the director- general of the Oyo State ministry of works and housing, told the helpless devotees and their leader that they were there to enforce an order by Abdulkareem Adisa, the works and housing minister, that no structure should lie within 30 metres of the expressway. Their mission accomplished, the demolition squad left in a triumphal convoy of about 17 vehicles. To Maharaj Ji, the reason given by the demolition squad was far-fetched. He decided to write a letter of protest to the works minister and Oladipo Diya, the chief of general staff. In his letter, written the same day, Maharaj Ji denied ever flouting the minister's order that all structures within 30 metres of federal highways be removed. His words: 'When the said directive was given, we adhered and obeyed by moving our things beyond 33 metres to 35 metres, giving a setback of five metres as mark of our deep respect for constitutional law and order of the land.' The spiritual leader appealed to the minister to investigate the matter and bring those responsible for the demolition of his village to book. Maharaji Ji is surprised that along the Lagos-Ibadan Expressway, only his village was targetted by the demolition squad. Besides, until the recent order by Adisa, the Oyo State works and housing ministry had never implemented instructions of the federal ministry of works and housing relating to the highways. Its argument has always been that the federal highways - is the responsibility of the federal ministry of works and housing. It is this, more than anything else, that makes Maharaj Ji to see the destruction of his property as just another stage in the face- off between him and the Oyo State government. In his letter to Diya, Maharaj Ji alleged that for sometime now he has suffered persecution in the hands of Ike Nwosu, the Oyo State military administrator. He recounted how Nwosu once falsely accused him of torturing people and taking over their land. Maharaj Ji also reminded Diya, of how last August Nwosu asked him to quit the land on which the village is situated on the allegation that he did not acquire it legally. To further strengthen his case, the spiritual leader spoke of how Nwosu attempted to take over the land by government acquisition. Maharaj Ji had gone to court and on August 17 the high court in Ibadan, presided over by Olukayode Adesina granted his prayers and restrained the state government from interfering with the property. The leader of the One Love family noted that the demolition is against the court order. He also spoke of his trouble with the National Drug Law Enforcement Agency. According to him: 'Few months ago, a petition from the same (Oyo) state secretariat landed me at NDLEA detention camp for 37 days without bath only for the chairman to report to the world that his company has been trailing me since 1994 but found nothing incriminating against me.' As at press time neither Adisa nor Diya had replied Maharaj Ji's letters. At the Federal Ministry of Works, sources told Theweek that the minister could not have instructed the Oyo State government to demolish parts of the One Love village since there is a unit of the federal ministry which is charged with administering the highways. From all indications, the last has not been heard on the assault on Maharaj Ji's sanctuary. Second article note: This article is obviously a little more sympathetic to the hapless Nigerian Maharaji. From accounts I have read of Africa, Gurus, Saviors and witch doctors can be found on practically every street corner in the continent. Apparently this Guru found a winning recipee for success in emulating the practices of our own Prem Pal Rawat Singh. Perhaps these articles make for a good study of the necessary ingredients to start a cult movement. Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 14:00:56 (EST)
From: Joy Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: The old site's article Message: This is so wild! Another Maharaji in a parallel universe. As if one wasn't enough for the planet, now there's two! Perhaps we can talk the Nigerian authorities into bulldozing the Malibu residence while they're at it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 14:22:51 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Joy Subject: Wrong, Joy Message: This is so wild! Another Maharaji in a parallel universe. As if one wasn't enough for the planet, now there's two! Joy, you forget we already have a second Maharaji. In fact, a REAL Guru Maharaj Ji in the form of one son of the late, great master Shri Hans Ji Maharaj. This Guru Maharaj Ji lives in a beautiful Jonestown-by-the-Ganges called Prem Nagar. Now THAT is a really amazing coincidence because, if you recall, OUR Guru Maharaj Ji is also the son of the late, great master Shri Hans Ji Maharaji and he also lived in the beautiful Jonestown-by-the-Ganges called Prem Nagar. I wonder if they knew each other. By the way, did you ever read The Bald Soprano? This kind of reminds me of a scene in that play by absurdist, Eugene Ionesco. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 09:34:33 (EST)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Jim Subject: Wrong, Joy Message: Just a thought. Does Maharaji realise that he's already been superceded by the next perfect master? All this talk about when a master comes. Why doesn't someone tell him that the next perfect master HAS come - twice! Does M know he's got a double in Africa plus his other double in India? And here's another thought I had yesterday. We ex-premies are very polite. If we wanted to we could end Maharaji's mission in the west in a few weeks. How? Quite simply by force of numbers making legal and legitimate protests at all Elan Vital 'events'. All it would take would be a few people going to each video event and standing by the door with a placard and handing out a few leaflets to the half dozen or so people going to watch the event. And then at the big events where Maharaji (our one) was appearing in person, we could arrive with a bigger force after having tipped off the local press and stand with our placards outside the event and hand out some more leaflets. If we did all of this, there would be no Maharaji or Elan Vital in the west within a year, I'm sure of it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 15:00:33 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Adole Subject: The nigerian Guru Message: I am amazed but also extremely touched by your story, Adole. Sad that you and your sister should run away from home only to get involved with this extremely dangerous cult. I hope that for you and your sister, the wounds do heal eventually. We followers of the other Maharaji certainly understand what you must have been through, and probably from a young age too. The Internet is a brilliant resource for letting the truth be told about all of these cults. You are most welcome here and I look forward to your participation, tremendously. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 22:37:54 (EST)
From: Liz Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Seeing the light Message: Wow! You guys have really set my mind on fire. For the past 3 years (I have lost count of the number of times I have done this since 1975) I have consciously suppressed my doubts on M (SO WHAT if he lives the life of the rich & famous, SO WHAT if he isn't GOD). I convinced myself that what he is espousing via K is the TRUTH & nothing but the TRUTH. You guys have made me see the light!! How can I keep on believing this BULLSHIT? Why do I keep getting caught up in this nonsense? At 45 I should have more sense! Oh and BTW Jerry, no more videos for me! Thanks Katie and Diz for a welcome to the Forum. I'm sure it will do me lots of good. Regards Liz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 22:58:00 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Liz Subject: Seeing the light Message: Hi Liz. Glad you found the forum. I feel incredibly lucky that I found it also. I hadn't been following Maharaji for 14 years but still had a lot of silly beliefs about him until I found this website. My mind was on fire too for several weeks after finding it! I replayed a lot of my past memories around being a premie, dug up some repressed memories , remembered festivals I had totally forgotten about. See, I had just tried to erase the whole thing from my mind like a big old Etch-a-Sketch. But to actually read other folks' process re: Maharaji and to get that support is truly like gold. And to read posts from people like KK and Gail and JW who have seen the workings of the inner circles close to GM and to GM himself--their stories are proof. If you're anything like me you'll kick yourself for being so stupid, but then you'll see that GM duped a lot of people, & you'll stop being so hard on yourself. Maharaji is like Oz in the Wizard of Oz with no magical powers whatsover except the power to get people's money out of their hands. Hope you continue to post, Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 22:24:32 (EST)
From: Diz Email: None To: Liz Subject: Seeing the light Message: Hey Liz Good to see you posting. Don't get too hard on yourself. I can relate to the 'I should have more sense' stuff but we were up against a very efficiently-marketed and closed belief system. For me, K 'worked' in the sense that I very much enjoyed meditation. (Although it didn't 'work' in the sense of giving me everything I need in life - not unless I defined 'life' in a very narrow way.) And for so long I took that as validation of all the rest. It was a package deal, you were certainly not encouraged to sort out the different parts, to keep the best and toss the rest. I think you'll enjoy posting. I'm looking forward to your input. Love Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Nov 15, 1998 at 11:28:22 (EST)
From: burton Email: None To: Liz Subject: Seeing the light Message: Hello Liz, When did you wander into this whole heaven on earth adventure? Are you a former ashrammer? Did you work at his house? What city were you most in? Remember any tall tales from the divine show? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 20:21:15 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Maharaji's Dreamworld Message: Maharaji from Hans Jayanti, Nov. 7, 1998: Go inside. Feel that thing which is within you. You can't create this thing, or read about it, or write about it, or qualify it or explain it. You can't measure it and you can't say how much of it you have, you just know it when you have it. That's Knowledge. Doesn't he make it seem so easy? But who in their lives is really capable of going inside to feel that 'thing' which is within them? (I'm reminded of that scene in Aliens when the alien first burst out of this poor guy during chow time. Can't you picture M giving this guy satsang just before it happens, 'Feel that thing which is within you'.) But seriously, this is the reason I received K, because I wanted this perfect state of consciousness always at my disposal. It never happenned and I've had Knowledge since 1980. I'd have to say, from my experience, that this 'thing' within is bullshit. I'm sorry if I've offended anybody by saying that but that's my take on it. That's my experience. I'm not saying I don't have good feelings. I do. It's just, you can't turn love and joy on and off whenever you want to just by 'going within'. It doesn't work that way, not in my life. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 21:30:15 (EST)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Jerry Subject: Maharaji's Dreamworld Message: And a dangerous dreamworld too. If you cut out the world and try to live from some thing within, your live goes steadily down the drain. All that effort and attention on trying to find the lost city of Atlantis within can make a person insane. What really annoys me about all of this is the fact that Maharaji doesn't practise what he preaches. He knows that he can't live as he preaches. He knows the real score and yet he perpretrates this myth. But why? I personally think there can be some benefit from meditation as a form of mental relaxation therapy. But Maharaji doesn't preach this. He preaches that meditation is the supreme answer to life and that everything we want out of live is within. This is just not true and after having had his K for 26 years, I should know. It doesn't work like that. I see it this way; there are many different methods of relaxation or self improvement around. Visualisation, hypnonis, self hypnosis, auto-suggestion and then there's also meditation. Now for some people some of these methods have proven to be most beneficial. There's some people who have quit smoking after just one hypnotherapy session. Auto-suggestion can have remarkable results. Meditation also can have beneficial results at times. But for Maharaji to claim that his meditation is some sort of divine knowledge is ridiculous. Meditation on the breath can have a stilling effect on the mind sometimes. At other times it can have the opposite effect. But this isn't divine knowledge! My friend tells me that the nectar technique can stimulate certain hormone centres which can release endorphines. It's not divine knowledge though. I'm convinced that the divine light people see is caused by the optic nerve. Concentration in that area does produce light and for me, it gives me a whacking headache. The divine music is still a mystery but I've heard it and I'm fairly convinced that it's another physical phenominon. I surmise this because when I once took an antidepressant which was wrongly prescribed for my ME, I heard the music loud and clear more than ever before! To market all of the above as divine knowledge and an answer to people's desires, problems, search for God etc is irresponsible and totally misleading. Some people might like the feeling of meditating on their breath etc but it's no panacea and its effects are many and varied. For some it could be harmful while others might find it leads to depression. Again, some people might find it helpful and relaxing. But it will NEVER become a substitute for life and that's the myth that Maharaji perpetrates. And he adds to this myth the fantasy that he is the Lord God Almighty and meditation on the above techniques will put you in direct contact with God who he supposedly is. This is all dangerous bullshit, in my opinion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 22:46:09 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Sir D & Jerry Subject: Maharaji's Nightmare Message: Right on, bros. I still meditate, I pray, I try to be centered blah blah blah. But this idea that you are going to be centered or you should be centered all the time is utter bullshit. I have things I need to and want to get done and I have the drive to do them, and I'm not going to get them done by sitting around with my thumbs over my ears. GM's trip killed my drive & ambition for awhile and that DID make me very depressed & numb. 'Guru Maharaji's World' or the bliss that he pedalled really never felt very good to me. I honestly get more of a charge out of a lively discussion, or a brisk walk, or accomplishing something new at my job, or leading the Girl Scout troop than I ever got out of GM's trip. The meditation techniques do have a real positive pain-killing effect for me. I fractured my back and have bad arthritis in my spine. SOmetimes the back pain is terrible and I do find that the meditation techniques help me. But as Sir D pointed out, all of the techniques don't help everyone. And as Jerry pointed out, there's no GOd-realization at the end of the rainbow. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 23:36:10 (EST)
From: Veep Email: None To: Sir D Subject: Maharaji's Dreamworld Message: This is all dangerous bullshit, in my opinion. David, I agree. Tonight I saw a show about Hippies from the 20th century series on the History channel. A third or more of the program was dedicated to cults. The moonies and hare krishnas were on there as was Jim Jones and the nut in Wako, Texas. They also showed the TM guru and a couple of other gurus. There was NO DIFFERENCE between what several of these guys did and what Maharaji did/does. They are all frauds. P.S. I saw my first cheesehead on a commercial during that program. (Now I finally know what all the fuss is about.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 18:32:22 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Really, Pat? Message: In 1972, one of my friends went to Canada tracking down a rumour of a grand spiritual knowledge and a young boy who could show this Knowledge to any one who was interested. Come on, Pat. What really happened is that one of your friends went to Canada tracking down a rumour of a young avatar named Guru Maharaj Ji who claimed to be the Lord incarnate and able to give one a direct experience of God inside. Why not simply tell it like it is/was? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 01:34:52 (EST)
From: Boris Email: None To: Jim Subject: Really, Pat? Message: Come-on Jimmy boy. Relax. When your IQ reches 50, you should sell you brain. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 01:44:52 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Boris Subject: Really, Boris? Message: Come-on Jimmy boy. Relax. When your IQ reches 50, you should sell you brain. ?? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 01:46:33 (EST)
From: Maurice Email: None To: Boris Subject: Really, Jimmy boy. Message: Keep trying. One more brain cell and you got a whole synapse all to yourself. Think of it my lad. Sorry. I forgot you can't. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 01:57:25 (EST)
From: Boris Email: None To: Maurice Subject: Really, Jimmy boy. Message: Leave the guy alone will you. He's reached the bottom and started digging. No humor no nothing. He was forbiden to breed, misread and is now brain dead. I asked him to give me a break and got a gift wrapped at Canadian Tire. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 16:25:31 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: Everyone Subject: GMJ 1982 Message: Here's some grist for the mill that I just found. 'Do you need me? I am with you. You can't see me, though I'm the light that allows you too see me. You can't hear me though I talk through your voice. You can't feel me, though I'm the power that works in your hands. I'm working within you though you ignore my paths. I'm working though you don't recognize my work. I'm not a strange vision. I'm not a mystery - only in absolute silence beyond the personality that you seem to be; and then only like a feeling and like faith. Still I'm with you, Still I hear you, still I can answer you. When you need me, I'm with you and I help you. In the moments in which you think you only find yourself, I'm with you. Even in your fears. Even in your pain, even when you meditate and when you don't meditate. I'm within you and you're within me. Only in your mind are the problems of 'mine' and 'yours', but still only with your mind you can know and percieve me. Empty your heart of ignorant fears because apart from your personality, in between, I will be with you. By yourself, you cannot do anything, but I can do everything. Though you cannot see the good - The good is there. Because I am there, because I have to be, because I am everything. Only in me the world has meaning. Only when you are in me, the world will take it's true shape. Only because I am the law, in which rests the movement of the stars and the growth of each living cell. I am the love that is the fulfillment of the law: Iam safety: I am your peace: I am everything. Though you fail finding me, I never fail finding you. Though your faith in me is insecure, my faith in you never vanishes. Though you give your faith and love senselessly to others, My love is only for you, because I know you, because I love you.' Guru Maharaji Ji Speaking to IDP Group February, 1982 Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 19:13:25 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: x Subject: JM, did you get this? Message: x, This is great stuff. Where'd you find it? Were you, by chance, in the Initiator Development Program yourself (I'm assuming tht's what IDP stands for)? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 00:13:23 (EST)
From: JM Email: None To: Jim Subject: JM, did you get this? Message: I've got it NOW ! Good stuff ! do you have more of that kind ? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 06:14:39 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jim Subject: Now online ! Message: He told us too many time ! I am God and He swore on the Bible Anybody denying this ? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 15:42:57 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: Jim Subject: JM, did you get this? Message: Dear Jim, No, I was not in the initiator development program. I'm the x who has premie parents. Also I got 'k' at a young age. I found that satsang while I was fishing around in my moms attic. I found a few other funny items, including a not so funny, 1980 Holi satsang, that I found to be very disturbing. In this gem he lambastes the premies for not propagating enough, and warns them not to just go back home to their lazy, sleepy little communities, and lay around. He 'encourages' the lazy little slackers to get out and spread the word that the lord is here, and propagate, by example. In other words get out there and act blissed out, and then everyone will want what you've got. Yech! I'll print this one in later, when I have time. I promise. sincerely, x Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 22:47:00 (EST)
From: B Ji Email: None To: x Subject: GMJ 1982 Message: I have a copy also. He uncorked some real gems in his private talks with the instructors. They were kept in line for quite a while by his fierce god playing. Us too. I remember hearing during the Tuscon festival that he had a meeting with instructors and was really angry at the instructors and said 'I'm getting close to getting angry' and the instructors were like, 'wow if this isnt angry I dont want to see what is!' I heard then and also at other times that we premies were in for it because he was really angry. Threats of stopping events and not showing up and holding back his grace and leaving us twisting in the wind were regularly doled out. Unfortunately, his schtick will sound better to the innocents in the mess of the post y2k world. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 07:45:38 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: B Ji Subject: GMJ 1982 Message: Thanks for posting that Bill. Your knowledge of these events is always appreciated and read with interest by me and many others, I'm sure. You must have been a great help to many people here. Good man! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 09:59:53 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: x Subject: GMJ 1982 Message: That gives me the creeps! Yuk! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 10:02:41 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: x Subject: GMJ 1982 Message: It's like an ANn Rice novel! WE let a vampire into ourselves! 'YOu can run to the farest reaches of the earth but I will still be in your veins, you can try to drive a stake through my heart but I will always be there inside you.' Yikes! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 22:04:59 (EST)
From: Diz Email: None To: Helen, x Subject: GMJ 1982 Message: That quote you posted, x, sounds so familiar. I'm not sure if I've heard the words before, but I know the message. And when I read it I could feel the old pull. This is what I mean, Helen, about the conditioning running so deep. He DID (and does) speak to such a vulnerable part of a human being. It's kinda like falling asleep to freeze in the snow, it would be so easy, so sweet, for that baby part of oneself to let go and go with it. Surrender... Just let yourself be taken over... To be nothing, to let him be everything... I think for the 'real' premies, the message is still the same. It's so important to recognise what was fed to us, if we're to reclaim ourselves and our lives. Thanks x. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 00:32:12 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Diz Subject: GMJ 1982 Message: Yes I felt that, too. he's not the real God so that it seems frightening to me now, but at one time it really would have moved me and lulled me. LOved your image there about falling asleep in the snow Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 14:05:52 (EST)
From: Adole Email: benedikt.bros@phreak.co.at To: Scott(Nigerian articles) Subject: Maharaji in Nigeria Message: Hi Scott, I read your page with the articles about that fake Guru Maharaji living in Nigeria.If you want to know more about him, ask me. Iam an Austrian and I lived in Nigeria for 9 years.Four years I spent with that Maharaji and I also received knowledge. It is in fact very astonishing how he copied Pren Pal Rawat Singh. This two groups are identically conserning the contents. So if you have any questions about this nigerian fake guru, ask me. greetings Adole Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 19:55:55 (EST)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Adole Subject: Thanks! Message: This is really fascinating, Adole. The Scott who started this forum hasn't been around for a while so he might not see your post. But the rest of us would love to hear more about it. There are a lot of Maharaji's premies who read this forum as well (because their own website is so boring). It would us all a lot of good to compare notes. Please stick around for a while. Thanks, Nigel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 20:05:07 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Nigel Subject: To Adole! Message: Hi Adole: What was your guru's name? What was his connexion to Prem Pal Singh Rawat? When did you join this guy's cult? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 23:04:07 (EST)
From: scott for a day..b Email: None To: Gail Subject: To Adole! Message: Did he engage in feet kissing? Did he talk about how he sprang out of nowhere? What brought about your leaving after 4 years? What did you have to go through to get shown the techniques? Were you asked to not reveal them? Does he tell the followers how to eat and dress and spend thier time? How much money are people asked to give? 10% Like the regular religions reccomend? How are YOU doing at this point? Did you come to some conclusions about the time spent doing techniques and listening to him? What sort of way does he get people to come to him and does he have ashrams? How does he dress and does he have a crown? Does he have an eldest brother? Any of the followers set themselves up as little godheads? Does he have a harem with someone named Monica as chief intern-er- I mean instructor? Is he married and does he cheat on his wife? With her knowledge? Is his wife allowed to talk? Has he ever punched you? Yelled at you or anyone? ashrams? airplanes? alchohol? ADOLE! is that an austrian name or did maharaji give you that name? thanks and hope this helps to give you an entry point. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 01:35:11 (EST)
From: Boris Email: montreal.quebec@usa.net To: Everyone Subject: Information is the only weapon Message: There are yet unknown Bernstein and Woodward who, next year, will win a Pullitzer and a PhD in journalism with this. Jim and I already raised 40$ worth of pledge to help them. A fourfold increase overnight and pledges are pouring-in by the minute. Off with the self-rightous-run-of-the-mill-bible-stumping-holy-roller type. Baby you're gonna be a star. You're going to make the New-York Times best-seller list. Please say hello to Jay Leno for me when the right moment comes. First thing first: go undercover as a divine slave in Malibu and don't forget to bring plenty of film. Now, would anyone help us with this? Private email is preferable in this case and the sender's identity will be validated. Now, just to help you, meet every devotee who's got something to hide. For instance? Well, maybe there is a fat-cat who's wealth cannot be attributed to his income. Maybe he's got a nice baritone voice and he can sing opera better than most of us. Just a supposition. Maybe he lives in Florida and has and ex-wife with plenty to say given it's off-the-record. Let's call her M**y for now. How would that be for a start? Now, would it be possible the guy rakes-in something like US$6,000,000 a year for his personal use, airplane and public travel put aside? Would it be plausible some money is diverted from the organization to him? How could this be legal? Would it be moral and legal he paid almost no income tax at all? We all know we all are, deep inside, perverts. Since powerful people often act as perverts, could anyone prove he's a decent family man? How often does he get drunk? How often does he smoke illegal Cuban cigars? Does he hang-out with mobsters, politicians, crooks, priests or real-estate agents? (Calm down now, that was just a joke. We all know most politicians are honest.) Who are his good friends? What wouldn't he like the public to know about him? Is the wife fed-up with all this? Maybe she'd like to confide to some mortals. Maybe one of the kids wouldn't mind throwing a stone in the pond. Where can we meet them? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 11:12:55 (EST)
From: Way Email: None To: Boris Subject: Information is the only weapon Message: Boris: there are two lawyers who may be interested in helping. They are Ford Greene and Michael Flynn who earlier this year prosecuted Swami Kriyananda on sexual abuse charges. Both these lawyers are especially interested in debunking religious cults. See the web page on the Ananda community for more info on that successful lawsuit, (the Bertolucci Lawsuit). Another idea: A&E Television aired a special last Sunday on religious cults. The program managers at that network might be interested in viewing the 'Lord of the Universe' video and even broadcasting it if there are no legal copyright problems. Another idea: a printout of Maharaji quotes throughout the years (such as the 'I swear on the Bible that I will establish peace on earth' quote) could be printed and attached to the windshield wipers of all the rented cars in the parking lot at Long Beach Convention Center if and when an event happens there again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 12:53:41 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Boris Subject: Information is the only weapon Message: Do you have any actual contact with the ex-wife of the 'opera singer?' (let's call him MD). Very instersting idea of this source, though. And where is MD and what is he doing? I heard he headed up a cult business and has made a fortune, as others have off the slave labor of premies. Don't know the details re him, in particular, though. Another source is FACTnet. They are an anti-cult organization, something like CAN. You can join for $35 a year and get their newsletter. They also have a website at www.factnet.org. There is lots of information on cults there, but nothing directly about Maharaji. I sent them e-mails asking them why and directing them to this website. I recently got an e-mail back thanking me for the information. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 13:11:17 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JW Subject: M's promise now online Message: Here it is, the BM's MOST famous promise: M swearing on the Bible .... The picture is quite big, but I can't shrink it more if you want to be able to read it! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 14:16:50 (EST)
From: Boris Email: Montreal.quebec@usa.net To: JW Subject: Information is the only weapon Message: Something is getting stated here. Thanks JW. I don't know who you're refering to. Who could that be. I really don't know anything about any MD. If I did, I'd tell you he has sold his shares of the the devotional airplane furniture manufacturer and is a lot richer than any of his ex-partners. Bernstein and Woodward will find where that wealth came from. I didn't tell about what I think did I? I asked Bernstein what their zodiac sign are. They both are pitbulls. Oh, what a tangled web we are weaving. Stay tuned. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 15:27:21 (EST)
From: Boris Email: None To: Boris Subject: Information is the only weapon Message: By the way, we all know he gets a kick out of dressing-up as a topless Krishna. Now, has anyone seen him transvestite as something else? A beardless Jesus, a fat Buddha, a woman or something like that? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 23:21:38 (EST)
From: Natasha Email: None To: Boris Subject: Information is the only weapon Message: there IS a nice large photo of him in grand mala attire with blue eyeliner on. kind of looks like the eyelashes were done with that eyelash stuff. is this what you mean? I wonder who bought that yacht? perhaps john miller is still involved. he is in miami. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 01:47:53 (EST)
From: Boris Email: None To: Natasha Subject: What tangled web... Message: ... we are weaving. Go to the hospital. Get it scanned and send it. I ought to see this. The king posing as a drag queen. What a bargain. Now. Is there a picture of the crook with sunglasses, a dark shirt, white tie and white hat. Please, God, if you exist, give me a sign. I want such a picture. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 15:28:11 (EST)
From: Sir D Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Boris Subject: What tangled web... Message: I remember seeing quite a few pictures in the seventies of Maharaji looking like a Mafiosa Don. There's gotto be some old 'And It Is Divine' mags around somewhere with these pictures in. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 18:18:01 (EST)
From: Mauritzio Email: None To: Sir D Subject: What tangled web... Message: Come-onne-now. Sendde the piictures. There is a god after all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 22:13:53 (EST)
From: natasha Email: None To: Sir D Subject: What tangled web... Message: well, i have that or those photos of him at hans jayanty wearing the panama hats back stage. I think dark shades are worn in one. Tie might be white-cant remember. Hat was light colored I remember that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 15:38:21 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Sorry, I just have to do this Message: I'm not sure about the netiquette on this but I just have to post the following message from Golden Oldie to Bruce over on the uncensored premie page. Bruce doesn't have to come here if he doesn't like. He's free to have his conversation with GO uninterrupted, safe in the knowledge that he's being ridiculed here in hell. Hey, isn't that what hell was SUPPOSED to be like? Everyone walking around with bullet guns, slagging the truly great and saintly? Anyway, Golden Oldie is either a) one of us playing a long, extended practical joke on Bruce [I hope not and also think not based on GO's limited disclosure about himself] or b) one of those premies I used to hate because they were so salt and pepper in their acceptance of and respect for Maharaji [that ain't my thinking anymore, by the way]. Anyway, here's his latest. You gotta love the guy!: 'Hello Bruce, Bruce said”Yes. Its great to read about what's happening around the world, hearing people's stories of how their lives have benefited from having come across Maharaji, and to get Maharaji's words to read and inspire…I don't think that this site is as controlled as you think, either. Sure there isn't any conversation as yet. So what? I can’t help but notice the linguistic patterns are nearly always the same. Also, since I know many of those people personally, I KNOW that that is NOT how they speak. That’s why I am embarrassed by the EL site. Bruce said”Contrary to what the ex.file mantra chants, practising Knowledge (correctly) actually allows a person to be MORE independent in their thinking, rather than LESS as in a cult. I agree with you in theory, but I have no doubt that if that is what most premies were experiencing then they would be more vocal and I have no doubt that more premies would post on the ex-forum or at least here. Even in the EL forum, if they allowed anyone to participate then there would be an opportunity to ‘correct misunderstandings’ etc. The ‘ridicule’ could be discussed. Bruce said” You asked. Well why doesn't he address the issues when he is being misrepresented? By now you may have seen on www.enjoyinglife.org that Maharaji mentioned something about this in India a few days ago, along the lines that his responding to criticism was like pouring water on a rock and expecting it to grow grass. A waste of time in other words. “! Well I read this as “I won’t answer any questions and really don’t care about what anybody thinks of me. I am always right and that’s it Bruce said”I know what he means. There are people who just want to find fault and be negative. When you answer one complaint, they just find another one, and another. They ENJOY complaining. Complaining is what the mind is good at. Its really easy to get into that. People complain when they perceive something as being bad or wrong. Bruce said You said, Bruce there have been too many casualties. This is not about a fight between premies and 'exs'. Sure, but what are YOU about, Goldie?. I notice that you have not disagreed with me. Does that mean that you agree? Bruce said”So far it seems that everything you have written here about Maharaji seems critical. So why is that? I have tried my best to respond as I would as if we were sitting and talking face to face in a room. …the criticism as you put it, could be due to the fact that there are many unanswered questions that can no longer be washed over by “Wow, wasn’t it a wonderful event”, or “isn’t He wonderful”. Bruce said”How about expressing how good it was last time you saw him, or asking me to recall one of the very many wonderful times I have spent around him? Well, to be honest, it wasn’t good(or particularly bad) the last time I saw Him. Also I got Knowledge because I was looking for something that was consistent and always with me. It wasn’t about being around Maharaji in person. I know for many it is. Bruce said”If you only want to negative about Maharaji, fine, thats your business. But why post here.? What you see as negativity is actually part of our natural curiosity to get answers to questions….particularly those that don’t go away. Bruce said”I see you've got a cheer squad over on ex.files They love all that stuff. You mean that many people ‘over there’ and me and other premies have the same unanswered questions. Anyway, why do YOU go ‘over there’? Bruce said “So by the way, do you know David over there? No. JSCA Goldie' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 15:58:44 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sorry, I just have to do this Message: Jim - if you read my answer to Bruce on the premie forum (and BTW Bruce can't post on the ex-forum here because he pissed off the webmaster one too many times), you'll see that I think Golden Oldie is a premie as well. I have to say that I can relate to premies like that - if for some reason I'd stayed a premie all these years, I'd be asking the same questions. If there are more premie like Golden Oldie out there, I wish they'd speak out - the guy (or woman) has courage. I'm also astounded at the depth of dislike, and even hate, that Bruce seems to have for ex-premies. He's none too accepting of Golden Oldie either. Maybe I'm not getting Bruce's true feelings right, but that's what comes across. It certainly makes me believe that Maharaji himself really despises us. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 16:37:54 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: Sorry, I just have to do this Message: Katie, My bet, like yours, is that GO is a premie. Isn't it sick that the only reason we join Bruce even tentatively in suspecting otherwise is that the guy's trying to be honest? Mama mia! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 17:00:13 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sorry, I just have to do this Message: Well, to be honest, it wasn’t good(or particularly bad) the last time I saw Him. Also I got Knowledge because I was looking for something that was consistent and always with me. It wasn’t about being around Maharaji in person. I know for many it is. I think Goldie is a premie, soon to be an ex. He's only interested in what K can provide (as he should be, IMHO). He doesn't see any intrinsic value in being around M, which is imperative if you're to remain a premie. Once he understands that M is using K for his personal gain, I believe he'll break rank. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 17:35:22 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jerry Subject: There HAVE to be Others Message: I appreciate what GO has been saying. The openness to honesty is very impressive. It's something I didn't think I would hear from a premie, at least not out loud. But it occurs to me. There has to be more premies like that. I mean, I'm sure premies at least THINK that stuff. They mostly aren't stupid, you know. They've seen the contradictions, M's dishonesty, fear of dealing with his past and his critics. They see that. How can they not? I've talked with a couple of premies who verge on speaking like GO does, but they are very afraid of saying it out loud, especially where other premies, or god forbid, Big M might find out about it. Thats why I think so many premies read this website and the forum. It informs things they already think, but they can't talk about it, they don't post posts, and if they do, anonymity is vital. There is so much FEAR in the premie world you can almost cut it with a knife. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 19:41:26 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: JW Subject: There HAVE to be Others Message: I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are plenty of new premies and aspirants who are logging into this website and having their suspicions confirmed that M & K are bullshit, thereby getting their minds and lives back that much sooner. I hope so. It makes me feel as if I'm contributing to something worthwhile if that's the case. I think there's also a lot of premies who have been bouncing in and out with this thing for 15-20+ years as well. This website is giving them that final push in the right direction, freeing them from the cult. That's how it happenned with me. I just typed in 'Maharaji' into my search engine, thinking there must be some sort of site dedicated to M. You can imagine my surprise when the only site I found was this one where instead of seeing praise for the Perfect Master, I found ridicule for a fat little greasy fuck. I loved it. I still do. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 20:42:30 (EST)
From: Liz Email: None To: Jerry Subject: There HAVE to be Others Message: Funny you should say that. When I connected to the net for the 1st time 4 weeks ago I couldn't wait to type in 'Maharaji' to see what would happen. As a premie & expremie on & off since 1975 I have watched with concern the goings-on of M. I always felt reluctant to voice an opinion about M because other devoted premies made me feel guilty. Consequently, I have maintained my distance from the organisation as such, but still receive updates about M, his events and latest release videos (some of which I still buy) via a mail order service. It has been an enormous thrill AND a relief to find this website. I didn't expect it at all and it is wonderful to see that I am not the only person in the world to doubt M and his message. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 21:00:05 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Liz Subject: Welcome Liz Message: So nice to hear from you! Thanks for what you said - I appreciate it very much, and I'm sure other people here do too. Regards from Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 09:01:21 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Liz Subject: There HAVE to be Others Message: ... Consequently, I have maintained my distance from the organisation as such, but still receive updates about M, his events and latest release videos (some of which I still buy) via a mail order service. Hi Liz, Welcome to the forum. About those videos you buy. It's only by our contributions that M continues to flourish. If you want to help bring about an end to his madness, stop buying those damn videos...hee hee hee. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 19:59:42 (EST)
From: Diz Email: None To: Liz Subject: Welcome Message: Hullo Liz I can really relate to your feelings on finding this website. It was amazing for me to discover it, too, after years of questionning my questionning in the light of premie-think (courtesy of MJ and other premies, but also in myself!) Hope you'll join in the discussion. Every person brings a new perspective which helps me, and other 'recent exes' from what they say, to work through our years with Mj and their legacy. To decide what to keep and what to disgard, and to move forward. Best wishes Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 19:43:24 (EST)
From: Diz Email: None To: JW Subject: Independent thinking? Message: JW says: 'There is so much fear in the premie world you could almost cut it with a knife.' This is where the real censorships happens. Self-censorship. Better than the more overt kind by a mile for keeping things under control. I find it informative, though not totally surprising, that Bruce has just echoed MJ's line about answering 'criticism' being a waste of time. (And there's that sweet little analogy to go with it, too - makes it all the more easy to accept, for a surrendered little premie.) God preserve me from relationships with saints. (And preserve others around me from this kind of bullshit in me!) I was just talking with a friend about commitment in relationships, and she was talking about a couple who had made vows to each other to work on problems as they arose. To bring them out in the open and try to find a solution which would work for both of them. My friend was saying that she didn't think that was any big deal, that she thought that type of commitment came pretty standard for relationships. But it doesn't, not necessarily. I think it SHOULD, but it doesn't. Clearly it's never entered MJ's head in terms of his relationship with premies. I suspect this attitude flows on to premies, at least some of the time. It almost certainly informs some premies' attitudes to ex, or 'doubting' premies. And I suspect it informs some premies' attitudes to their spouses, children, parents, workmates etc too. Probably at an unconscious level, rather than consciously. MJ is so powerful in premies' lives. Increasingly so, since he's become virtually the only source of the only words worth hearing. How much do premies see the power implications of the trip? There's beliefs in the premie world, fostered (of course) by MJ, which do a good job of masking the control he has of people's attitudes and values, eg the stuff about 'following your heart' (carefully defined, however, as that part of you which wants to follow MJ!!), and the claim that it's all an experience, not a philosophy/lifestyle. The tragedy is that premies THINK they're independent thinkers. Good to talk to you, JW. Hope you're well. I owe you an e-mail. Have plans to fix that soon... Love Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 12:42:21 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Hi Diz Subject: Independent thinking? Message: Hi Diz: Would love to get an e-mail from you. They are always very thoughtful and informative. I agree re self-censorship and premies. It's something I recall doing myself. As a premie, I can't recall even one circumstance when I was criticised for expressing some form of doubt, but I had them all the time. Most of us learned very quickly what was acceptable to express and what wasn't, and if you wanted to retain approval of the group, which became more important the more your ties to anyone else were broken, you didn't express those doubts, no matter how obvious and justified they were. I'm sure that scenario still exists in the premie world. And Maharaji saying he is just going to ignore his critics, because it would be a waste of time, is just plain chicken shit excuses. I have heard premies say the same thing about Maharaji addressing the concerns of ex-premies, especially ex-ashram premies, many of whom who feel very ripped off by what Maharaji did to them in the past. The 'argument' goes that he shouldn't have to do that because it probably wouldn't 'satisfy' ex-premies anyway. What nonsense. The issue here is integrity and honesty, not making people happy. A person with integrity comes clean and takes responsibility for his actions and addresses those who have legitimate criticisms. He doesn't just run away from the confrontation. But, since Maharaji seems to lack any semblence of either integrity or honesty, and mainly just relies on his own arrogance, and his apparent belief that he exists above the rules everyone else has to follow, he can say things like he did in India. And, except for GO, when the premies see what a spineless hyppocrite he is, they don't express it, and just flog themselves for being unsurrendered doubters. They continue to follow him and that encourages him further to think he can get away with it. It's a very insidious process. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 20:33:13 (EST)
From: Diz Email: None To: JW Subject: the price of doubt Message: Thanks for your post, Joe. This thing about doubts being unacceptable is a really core issue for me. Maharaji's line of 'if you have a but, sit on it', was one of the final 'drips' in my transition from premie to ex (wasn't that a great analogy A.J.W. gave in his 'journey'? AJW, if you're tuned in, I loved your story. It expressed the premie culture around programs etc so well - such a useful reality check!) I did express my doubts in my final years as a premie, and the pain that went with them. A bit, not to the level I really felt, which was almost overwhelming. But even that bit wasn't acceptable. And I did lose friends, and they were, to a large extent, the only friends I had after 15 plus years as a premie. A very miserable business. Mostly in the past now, thank god. Again, it wasn't so much that premies overtly criticised me (although I have heard that happened behind my back). They maybe just didn't return phone calls. Some patiently explained how my perceptions were wrong, how my interpretations were wrong, how it shouldn't matter if I just surrendered - ignored the premies, focussed on MJ, focussed on his love (ie not what he said and did). Some really got on a high, giving satsang to this poor deluded soul, and went on and on... It really felt like being bashed up, used to take me days to recover a sense of self and reality. To be told that what you see, what you think, and what you feel are all 'wrong' is really crazy-making. And then, of course, there were doubts in ME about my doubts, too. I'm not surprised most premies with doubts choose not to run that gauntlet. The 'sorting out' process is taking time. I have no desire to substitute a flat dismissal of everything to do with MJ and K for the premie total acceptance. I am very clear about being an 'ex' - I would never go back unless and until open discussion was encouraged as the norm. This despite the fact that I still find a wonderful shelter in meditation at times, and valued the experience of Knowledge greatly during my years as a premie. Where is the balance between finding and protecting a sense of self, of your own values and beliefs, and open discussion? I realise that although I espouse discussion, I'm not prepared at present to cross swords with 'heavy' premies. I've had 20 years of conditioning into MJ's way of seeing things, into his values and beliefs. Those values and beliefs are inside me, and I'm still sorting them through. This site gives a different perspective which I use to offset the past conditioning. I'm very glad it's not a unitary perspective, although I know it's 'one sided' in the sense that almost everyone here is not a big MJ fan. In the end, I know I need to be able to hold my own with premies. I need time, however, to get to that point. Love Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 20:50:32 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Diz Subject: the price of doubt Message: Holding your own with a heavy premie would be about as hard for you as my holding my own with the Hare Krishnas that have been hagning out in front of my office these days. (One of the other lawyers noticed they only started doing that when I joined the firm. Do you think... no, that's ridiculous... but, well..) I have one simple question for Hare Krishnas (besides 'can you break a twenty?): have you read Monkey on a Stick? I LOVE asking them that. It's so simple. If they say 'yes' you can usually prove in a moment or two that they're lying and boy, is that embarrassing for some people! Let me tell you. If they say 'no' you tell them they should and that's about that. I have no idea why I'm talking about them, by the way. Oh yeah, it's got to do with the integrity of your thought process vis-a-vis that of heavy premies. I think that if and when you do go toe to toe with one, you'll be wonderfully surprised by the effect of your own honesty echoing in his emptiness. Whatever, do as thou wilt. But, if you ever find yourself there, expect to pleasantly surprised by it all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 21:27:53 (EST)
From: Diz Email: None To: Jim Subject: the price of doubt Message: Ta Jim, I appreciate your faith in me! I THINK I'm getting a bit less wimpish as time goes on. I bloody hope so! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 21:03:19 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Diz Subject: the price of doubt Message: Right Diz, the way I see it, the only thing ex-premies have in common is that they were once believers, to whatever degree they were, and they discovered, in a variety of ways, that it wasn't real. I mean the experiences they were having as premies were real, they just didn't come from Maharaji and it wasn't worth all the energy and sacrifice they put into it, to whatever degree they did. That's about it, really, but because what Maharaji is and was about is an entire closed system -- you pretty much have to accept it all or nothing. At least that's the way I was. I think that's still true for a lot of premies today. For me, I spent about a year very intensely trying to deal with leaving the cult, through counseling, 'ex-member' meetings and things like that. This was around 1983-1984 or so. But there wasn't much support then. I also lost all my friends, except for one who also left the cult around the time I did, and for sometime prior to that I was labeled as a 'doubting' 'negative' premie and felt avoided like you mentioned. I also had some premie friends who tried to talk to me about coming back, but when I expressed my anger they gave up pretty quickly and just didn't talk to me much for awhile. It was like they just didn't know how to deal with me, someone who had been such a super-devotee who now had changed so much. A short time later, when they were leaving also, I talked to them a lot and I was glad to be a support for them. A couple of these people mentioned that they were a little afraid of me after I left, mostly because they trusted my opinions and it conflicted with their cult-belief system. Then, gradually, I forgot about it all. I guess I got pretty active, and pretty happy, and I just forgot about it. I was relieved to be out of the cult, but I just thought it was over and done with. Sometimes I would remember and cringe when I thought about the years I had wasted and the people I hurt, but mostly I just moved on, or so I thought. I think my departure may have been more abrupt, because I lived in the ashram during almost my entire 10-year involvement, and I left that very intense living situation and the cult at the same time. So, the break may have been cleaner, because I had no experience living any kind of 'mormal' life, on my own in an unstructured environment, while being a premie. In some sense to me, being a premie, practicing knowledge and living a monastic, communal life were all synonomous. In retrospect, I know I would have benefited from a discussion process like what goes on here. I did get some cult-counseling, and that was good, but there is nothing else like speaking with ex-premies. They are the only ones who know what it's like. Now, these days, I find the forum therapeutic for a different reason. Now, with some distance, I think I can express what was going on in those days and what I was really felling about it. I think 10 years ago, I was still too close to it to be able to do that. And that has helped me incorporated that period in my life with things that happened prior and since. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 22:31:57 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Diz Subject: the price of doubt Message: YOU HAVE CHOICES, Diz. Love, Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 21:43:49 (EST)
From: Diz Email: None To: Helen Subject: the price of doubt Message: Say what, Helen? Yeah, I know I've got choices. In some things anyway. Which choices are you referring to? The choice to beard fierce premies in their den or not? The choice to think the way I want to think? I agree with that one. Sort of. The problem for me is that the conditioning runs very deep - I tried with all my being to absorb it for over 20 years, remember - and I can slip back into it at times. Maybe I should find a full-on premie and pick a fight, just because it scares me! Now there's a choice! One thing I can do is to 'answer back' when I do find myself in a situation where a premie hands me a premie concept which I don't agree with. I can say what I really think. In fact, I do tend to do this. Although it gets me pretty fired up - the last couple of times I was surprised how strongly I felt. There's still a hell of a lot of emotion attached to this stuff for me. Which of course just proves to the premie concerned that I'm not where I should be - in eternal peace, bliss and love. Oh well, fuck that. I'd rather be real than blissed out and fake!! Helen, I think we should have coffee. Can we swap e-mail via Katie? Love Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 00:36:52 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Diz Subject: the price of doubt Message: I'd love that--my em address is on my Journey story --or you can get it from Katie. The reason I wrote that you have choices was just to remind you that you can choose how much contact with premies you want to deal with--or how much you want to get into a tangle with them. and then you can change your mind about it several times! The idea of having choices just never was presented to us in Guru-land, was it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 20:05:47 (EST)
From: Laura Email: None To: JW Subject: There HAVE to be Others Message: Of course there are others who have doubts about MJ and about the value of knowledge. Premies don't give credence to doubts because it is 'mind' talking, and we are not supposed to listen to 'mind.' Mind is bad. Believe in Knowledge, believe in MJ. The only way to be happy, have peace, enjoy life etc. is to believe and not to doubt. What a simple philosophy. Too bad it doesn't work, not knowledge and definitely not MJ. And I would like to add to anyone who has any doubts, I did practice 'correctly.' Very simply - it doesn't work. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 23:25:17 (EST)
From: b Ji Email: None To: JW Subject: There HAVE to be Others Message: Your right JW, fear is really a large factor. ratwat said 'fear turns to love' maybe it is that same love that the abused person has for thier tormentor in family and other situations. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 10:28:57 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Everyone Subject: There HAVE to be Others Message: Really enjoying reading this thread. Fear, self-censoring, doubt not being allowed to be expressed. Premies and ex-premies and their ways of communicating, their fearful projections, etc. Self-censoring is the worst form of censure you are so right, Diz. ANd JW, you are so right about fear being so prevalent in the premie world that you could cut it with a knife. I have a dear friend who is a premie who does think for yourself. I haven't even told her yet about this website. I don't want to come onto her like the 'newly converted crusader'. I'll probably just casually mention it and tell her she might want to check it out. I'll probably also tell her that it's cleared up my confusion about M once and for all. (She knows it's turned me off for a long time). But I don't want to lose this dear friend. I'm so afraid to bring this up with her. I know it will all work out because we've fought about this before and have still remained very close friends. It's funny--what we love about each other has nothing to do w/GM. He doesn't even enter into it. I wish he'd get out of the way so that premies and ex-premies can just be PEOPLE! LOve, Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 12:42:31 (EST)
From: Veep Email: None To: Golden Oldie Subject: Preachin' to the choir Message: Golden Oldie said: 'What you see as negativity is actually part of our natural curiosity to get answers to questions….particularly those that don’t go away.' GO, you are right on with that statement. If you are a non-premie, pardon my preaching to the choir. In response to questions that don't go away, all I can say is, 'Where there is smoke, there is fire.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 07:02:19 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Maharaji's Millennial Math Message: I attempted to respond to Maharaji's Hans Jayanti/EL.O crap below, but had a software problem. So I'm doing it up here. Thus spake the Ex-Lord: It's always worth remembering that it takes two to hold a quarrel. Some people criticise me, but no matter what they say, or how many people say it, I just say nothing. First off, this is a lie. A bad one, actually. Here's Maharaji sitting in India where there is very little web access. And he's addressing people who are almost as clueless as he is about the technology, and whining to them about the heat that he's taking in this Forum!. This is certainly NOT say[ing] nothing to his critics. It actually says a LOT about just what is on his mind lately when his butt is on the stage and his mouth is moving. I know that they criticise me and I know that the more my message is spread, the more criticism I will get. Perhaps Maharaji's lack of any REAL success in taking Knowledge to the world is actually an attempt to stave off the number of critics that he generates in the process. That he can even understand the relationship between the number of people that he cons and the number of critics that he generates is actually pretty amazing when you look over the numbers he boasts about in the next paragraph. This year so far I have personally given Knowledge to 18,300 people. I have given Knowledge to 77,500 people since I started personally running the Knowledge sessions. This is my personal favorite piece of Maharaji Gibberish that's been posted on EL.O - and reveals the problem with following an 8-year-old messiah who has added years to his life without adding any wisdom. The math is lousy! If Maharaji JUST started personally running the Knowledge sessions ONE DAY PREVIOUSLY, then he's doing pretty good with a 77,500 person per day average. At this rate (using the most recent 5.9 billion world population figure), it will only take 208 years for him to personally create an entire world full of critics. If it's been TWO days, then it's gonna take him 416 years. If it's been ONE YEAR, then it's gonna take him 7,508 years to pull this off. Or take his 1998 boast of 18,300 people 'so far', and let's say he hits the big 20,000 served. At this phenominal rate, he's gonna need 295,000 years!! Or a faster plane... The more successful this work becomes the more some people are going to feel inclined to criticise it. But I just ignore it. Here Maharaji continues to ignore his critics. If he ignored them any more than this, then there'd be nothing left of the program to sell on video after Visions International edited out his oblique references to this forum and to the flaws in the paradise that he offers. He also overlooks the fact that THIS statement is even MORE true than the one he made: The more unsuccessful this work becomes the more some people are going to feel inclined to criticise it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 09:59:06 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Brian Subject: Excellent observation Message: Maharaji boasts: The more successful this work becomes the more some people are going to feel inclined to criticise it. Brian observes: He also overlooks the fact that THIS statement is even MORE true than the one he made: The more unsuccessful this work becomes the more some people are going to feel inclined to criticise it. Way to go, Brian. If M is so successful, what the hell are WE doing here? I also like your observation that the more people who receive K, the more critics M will be creating. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 13:50:55 (EST)
From: Sir Cheeseheadless Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Jerry Subject: Excellent observation Message: All brilliant observations there. The more people who receive K the more disgruntled people there will be to critisise Maharaji. A bit like when in Britain, Hoover gave lots of free gifts out with their vacuum cleaners and the gifts were all tarnished. This produced so much bad publicity for Hoover that they lost millions of pounds because of it. We are the perfect and shining examples of Maharaji's failure. We were the sincere, surrendered ones and look what he did with us - tossed us aside and called us his enemies. If there ever was such a thing as a perfect master, Maharaji must be the worst one in history. He is unfailingly constant in one thing though; his self rightousness. It was not HIS fault that he lost all his devotees from the seventies. It is not HIS fault that he has alienated practically everyone who ever received his knowledge. His whole attitude to people is wrong and if you look at the long term trend, less and less westerners show any interest in him and his knowledge. And that's without us! His constant ridiculing of people will never attract people to him, only masochists. He has a very low opinion of most people and that comes across in his speeches. His words do not endear normal people to him. In short, he isn't a marketable commodoty. Personally, I'd rather listen to Billy Graham giving a speech. At least he has qualities of understanding and compassion for others and doesn't pretend to be anything more than human. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 19:16:00 (EST)
From: Diz Email: None To: Sir Cheeseheadless Subject: Excellent observation Message: Amen to that, Sir D. It must be wonderful for MJ to know that everything he does and says is so far beyond criticism. That anyone who has experienced a problem within his 'world' is just 'in their mind'. It's just so SIMPLE, not having to answer for anything. Lucky, perfect MJ! The use of the word 'criticism' is interesting, too. I know for me, for many many years, what I had were QUESTIONS, things which made me uneasy. I DIDN'T critise, I wanted to discuss some of the things MJ said, some of the things that happened. No way was that possible. And what really hurt was that my desire for open discussion was SEEN as criticism, negativity, being in my mind. I do enjoy your posts, Sir D. Hope all is well with you. Diz Glad to be free of the need to always be positive!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 10:33:29 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Diz Subject: Amen, sister! (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 10, 1998 at 21:36:33 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Colin Speir is NOT a weenie Message: I'm posting this 'expression' from ELK as proof that Colin Speir is NOT one of those people who simply exudes false charm like a funeral director or Beverly Hills party planner. Here, in his own words, is Colin. Notice, by the way, the wide range of 'events' and all the different kinds of videos available. I'm surprised Maharaji hasn't begun his own university and spread all this material over a four-year program. Can you imagine? No, that's too funny. Besides, it robs Colin of his moment of appreciation. Here, again, is Colin Speir: 'There is a wonderful feeling here as little by little more and more people hear about the possibility of there really being something else. We have about 50 video events each month. These events range from: introducing Maharaji and his message; how to learn more about what he has to offer; how to prepare to receive the gift he has; and finally videos of him speaking to those who have already received his gift. Many people take the opportunity to help in the preparation and behind the scenes work entailed in running synchronised events in an organised manner. All this so that anyone wishing to can attend these events and feel welcome and comfortable. It is a lot of fun. We are preparing for a possible visit by Maharaji and looking forward to it with great enthusiasm, while, at the same time, being very grateful for the videos of his world-wide events that make it so simple to stay in touch and be inspired. If you are in the Toronto area please feel very, very welcome.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 10, 1998 at 23:13:42 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: Colin Speir is NOT a weenie Message: Bland, bland, bland. There are only three words they are allowed to say, no personal inflection allowed, no colorful language or personal interpretation allowed. You cannot deviate from the script. It is the muzak of language, drained of all its drive. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 01:43:24 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Colin Speir is NOT a weenie Message: 'There is a wonderful feeling here as little by little more and more people hear about the possibility of there really being something else. Little by little? More and More? -- This is satsang circa 1974. Hear about the possibility of there really being something else? -- This is Maharaji circa anytime in the last 25 years. Bad English and zero content. Many people take the opportunity to help in the preparation and behind the scenes work entailed in running synchronised events in an organised manner. I think this should read: A few people are forced into slouching around in the limelight obstructing disjointed non-events in a highly disorganized manner. We are preparing for a possible visit by Maharaji and looking forward to it with great enthusiasm, while, at the same time, being very grateful for the videos of his world-wide events that make it so simple to stay in touch and be inspired. And I am just amazed at those premies in Toronto. They must be geniuses or something. They have this amazing ability to look forward to, AND prepare, for a visit by Maharaji, AND, AT THE SAME TIME, SIMULTANEOUSLY, be grateful for videos which make it so simple to stay in touch and be inspired. This is absolute PROOF of what knowledge can do for a whole community. Colin, you have been a community coordinator WAY TO LONG, it has destroyed your brain as well as any sense of self-respect. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 14:52:15 (EST)
From: Boris Email: Montreal.quebec@usa.net To: JW Subject: Colin Speir is NOT a weenie Message: Is this the same (bald, short, Brittish) Colin who migrated to Canada in the early '70s to drive the Rawat boy's limousine. It certainly sound like him. Funny. Get off his back. The wheel is still turning but the hamster is dead. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 18:49:28 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Boris Subject: Colin Speir is NOT a weenie Message: Same one, Boris. By the way, you were asking about ELK (Enjoying Life with Knowledge). It's the premie website where you can hear the sheep bleat in carefully processed unison. Check it out. Orwellian extraordinaire. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 23:32:43 (EST)
From: bb Ji Email: None To: Jim Subject: Colin Speir is NOT a weenie Message: You guys are, as usual, very funny. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 02:10:32 (EST)
From: Boris Email: None To: Jim Subject: Colin Speir is NOT a weenie Message: Thanks for the info my humor-stricken friend. Now, what would their address be (and the birds). Smile now. I just wanted to use some of the insults I've been collecting over the years and I knew they'd fit. Coming from me, I knew you'd know I am sincere. Does this give you another clue (mine, mine, you're slow. Did you read the journey thing?) Got it now? By George! Aren't the natives quite restless tonight? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 10, 1998 at 17:53:26 (EST)
From: Boris Email: montreal.quebec@videotron.ca To: Everyone Subject: We are survivers Message: We have been through a cataclysmic experience together and we survived. It has left most of us with scars we have to learn to live with. For some of us, the recovery was easy while for some others, it won't ever be completed. I know, I don't like to be reminded how foolish I was. I am mad and ashamed. Only other ex-premies could come close to understanding what this whole thing was like. Now, as I write this, others are still going though the guilt and shame of admitting to themselves they have been fooled. They have to accept to part from the security of the group they belong to. I know some of them. They gather periodically in a downtown hotel and listen to their guru on TV. They travel as we did and use the same language we once did. I often ask myself if I could do anything to help in any way possible. 'Why bother' is the natural answer. Yes. One of these days we all are going to die and nothing of it will survive. Not even the holy jet. On that day I don't want to wonder if I could have done anything to make a slightest difference, what would that have been. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 10, 1998 at 19:12:07 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Boris Subject: We are survivers Message: I think what is being written here is making a big difference. Maharaji, in his clumsy way, slagged the Internet off and tried to persuade premies not to get into it. He labels us people who write here as his enemies and broadcasts this in his satsangs for all premies to here. So naturally, premies in their curiosity are going to want to see what these enemies of Maharaji are writing about. And for some the burden of being a devotee of a false god is lifted. Then Maharaji, in his infinite wisdom, decides that he will get a presence on the net to counteract his enemies here so he lets a very censored premie web site get started called 'enjoyinglife' and in his shortsighted way, he thinks that this new premie enjoyinglife site will solve his enemies problem. The trouble is, it will have the opposite effect on most of the floating premies. They will read both sites, this one and enjoyinglife and they will get tired of the endless drivel being written on the EL site and realise that what's being written about here is nothing but the truth. With regards to people who like going to watch videos of Maharaji every week; they are few compared to the masses who used to attend the old satsangs in the seventies. If they really enjoy it, who are we to stop them? But those who don't enjoy it are in a rapidly increasing vocal majority. If I met a waverer, I would tell them what I know about Maharaji - his les, his past claims to be God, his drinking and drug taking, his materialism and his hypocracy. But a die hard premie - I'd just let them get on with it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Nov 10, 1998 at 23:06:48 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Boris Subject: We are survivers Message: Yes we are survivors. Yes we feel ashamed at times. But Gm is soooooooo smooth. I think Sir D is right that we should 'speak truth to power'. I do think it's our moral obligation to tell friends and loved ones what we know & what we've figured out cause GM is not the only cult out there. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 10:40:22 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Boris Subject: We are survivers Message: I know, I don't like to be reminded how foolish I was. I am mad and ashamed. I'm not, really. I'm just learning to accept that I can be had, and keeping my guard up because of that fact. I didn't do anything wrong to be ashamed of. Maharaji was just the culmination of a lot of bullshit I was taught that led up to him. If I didn't believe in the divinity of one man over another, M never would have got in the door. M's just a statement on how fucked up society is in general. In fact, he's a product of that fucked up society. If we knew up from down, there never would be the likes of Maharaji. He'd never be allowed to get away with what he does. He'd be an aberration. I often ask myself if I could do anything to help in any way possible. 'Why bother' is the natural answer. Yes. One of these days we all are going to die and nothing of it will survive. Not even the holy jet. On that day I don't want to wonder if I could have done anything to make a slightest difference, what would that have been. Boris, you're making a difference just by posting here. A lot of future ex-premies are going to become just that because of the help they got from the posts on this forum. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 13:18:58 (EST)
From: Luis Email: None To: Jerry Subject: We are whiners Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 14:10:57 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Luis Subject: We are human beings Message: .... who are claiming back their lives, tough guy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 15:55:00 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Luis Subject: We are whiners Message: Luis, care to explain yourself more thoroughly? I absolutely cannot stand whining myself (ie. people who whine about their lives and don't do anythng to change it). However, some venting and reality-checking does go on here. Where else can people who have had the experience of GM go to get that reality check? I don't think it constitutes whining (maybe at times it does but the majority of the time I'd say that's not true.) So speak up and define what you mean. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 16:28:30 (EST)
From: Luis Email: None To: Helen Subject: We are whiners Message: Hi Helen, don't you agree that complaining on and on about things that happened 20 years ago would qualify as whining? and complaining about the EL site could qualify as whining? and complaining about the people who post on the EL site and whatever other site ? and complaining about everything that M says and does? PS: don't bash me, i am not what you call a 'premie' or an 'ex-premie' or anything in between Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 16:35:23 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Luis Subject: Okay, I'm a whiner Message: Hi, my name's Jim and I'm a whiner. I was never satisfied with anything. The trip was always too long, or I didn't get to sit up front. I never had the right girlfriend or, if i did, she never understood me properly. I don't like the syhape of my head and never understood why I, of all people, had to be Jewish. Yes, friends, I'm a whiner. Sorry, Luis, it just doesn't feel right. I'll keep trying though. By the bye, friend, what brings YOU here if not an urge to whine? Huh? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink. You say you're neither a premie nor an ex. So what the fuck are you doing popping in for some gratuitous complaining about something you don't even care about? Whiner! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 16:54:14 (EST)
From: Luis Email: None To: Jim Subject: Okay, I'm a whiner Message: As i said: 'WE are whiners' (wink wink nudge nudge) i for one love complaining and this is why i feel so at home around here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 18:32:21 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Luis Subject: Whiners or Friends? Message: I have to think about this some more. There have been times when I've wondered what is the purpose of this forum and whether or not it's repetitive or whining in its nature. It is a support group of sorts, and there is a certain amount of cathartic complaining that goes on in support groups. But I only see that as a negative if people continue repeating behavior that caused them to have the problem in the first place. In other words, complain, but then go onward, trying to be stronger What I see here is a lot of people who have recovered their ability to think for themselves and who are sorting things out a bit, engaging in lively discussions, forming friendships, and yes, criticizing Maharaji, someone who we all followed, without criticism, some of us for DECADES. We have a lot of intellectual catching-up to do. Frankly I've seen more whiners in new-agey types of situations than I see here--the new agey churches, etc, seem to attract weak, victim-ey type people like flies. Does it seem like we are feeling sorry for ourselves, like we are victims? Because that was a concern I had when I first started posting here--that I would perpetuate that kind of thinking in myself, that I was a victim. But you know, we were victimized in a sense. I certainly work very hard to take responsibility for my life as do other folks on this forum. But GM does victimize people, his whole thing is about taking away people's personal power. It's very difficult to explain unless you've had the experience. Since you claim that you were not a part of of the cult at any time, what is it that attracts you here? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 20:18:48 (EST)
From: Laura Email: None To: Luis Subject: We are whiners Message: don't you agree that complaining on and on about things that happened 20 years ago would qualify as whining? Luis, you are not understanding. We are not only whining about what happened 20 years ago but we are whining about what is still going on. If it still didn't affect us we wouldn't be here. We are sorting out our feelings, our thoughts and our lives. Our experience of MJ didn't end 20 years ago, it's still going on. I don't want to bash you but I am curious about your involvment here if you are 'not a premie or an ex-premie or anything in between.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 20:27:07 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Laura Subject: We are whiners Message: Hi Luis - Yeah, I'm still whining. I am whining because a really good premie friend of mine committed suicide. This bothers me, and makes me whine about M, even though my experience wasn't that bad (or good, either). Respectfully yours, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 21:52:22 (EST)
From: Luis Email: None To: Katie, Laurie and Helen, Subject: We are whiners Message: Hi, my comments are as an 'outsider'. i made this comment as an observation. it is true that i noticed that some people are participating in this forum because they are still working through some anger or whatever. but there are also people here who are perpetually reashing the same old stuff again and again. i have to add this: Katie, my brother committed suicide. i know the feeling...but he was not a follower, premie, ex-premie, whatever.still, it took me years to stop trying to find a culprit. the reasons why someone commits suicide are burried deep inside of him...it cannot be understood easily, you know. when you look from the outside, you might think : oh, it is because of the guru, because of the parents, because of this, because of that...but this reasonning is very often quite unfair...I WILL NEVER KNOW WHY....AND MAYBE YOU WILL NEVER KNOW WHY EITHER (unless the person leaves a note saying 'i am killing myself because...') sorry for the long post by for now Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 22:24:54 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Luis Subject: We are angry Message: Luis, with all due respect, I don't know if you are qualified to speculate as to why premies killed themselves if you have not had the experience (of being a premie) yourself. There were people who would still be alive now if they had never heard of GM, I have no doubt in my mind about that. GM is an evil man. Other variables may have contributed to their killing themselves, but there is no doubt in my mind that the type of 'double bind' (psychologically) caused by GM's trip can cause mental illness which can lead to suicide. It's easier than you think for it to happen. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998 at 22:43:38 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Luis Subject: We are whiners Message: Dear Luis - I am really sorry about your brother. I know that suicide is a very hard thing for family members to get over, and I hope you are all right. I also cannot say that my friend killed himself because he was a premie - I am in the same situation that you are. I can say, however, that because my premie friend killed himself, that's why I'm whining away on this website. I want to be his voice, even if what I say was not what he would have chosen to say. I am trying to help people who feel the same way that he did when he killed himself. I am just doing the best I can with what I know. I think you can understand this. Regards from Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 07:25:29 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Luis Subject: We are NOT whiners Message: Luis, premies who committed suicide most likely did so because M didn't deliver in their lives and they regarded him as their last hope. After all, he set himself up as that, the last hope for the world. When he didn't come through for these premies, because he BRAINWASHED them into believing he was their last and only hope, they took their lives. Yes he IS responsible, he and every other shithead that messes with the minds of lost souls that mistakenly place their faith in them. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 08:44:13 (EST)
From: Sir David at the Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Jerry Subject: cheese & whine party Message: Well said Jerry. That's exactly correct and most succinct what you said there. And I might like to add a little; the purpose of this forum is to let it be known what a fraud Maharaji is. To show the whole picture in glorious technicolour. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 09:03:11 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jerry Subject: We are NOT whiners Message: I would add that instead of advising these people to seek for professional help, the BM, his assistants and the parrot-premies have always said things like: have trust practice go inside you're in your mind etc This is called irresponsible behavior. Who IS responsible for this ? Remember what the BM said .... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 20:19:34 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: We are NOT whiners Message: I finally got to go see the shrink yesterday. However, she had stepped out, so I got some counselling from her secretary. Pretty good, eh? They are probably billing the government medical plan for the service? Anyway, the secretary quizzed me on the nature of the cult, etc. She concluded at the end of 20 minutes that I was fresh out of hope. I mean, the prozac is great and all (I don't give a shit that god doesn't exist, or anything else for that matter), but still ... I would have been much better off without 24 years of the cult. I feel I have earned the right to bitch if I want to. I wish the bastard would drop dead (different from a death threat folks). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 09:42:51 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Gail Subject: For Gail Message: Gail, I am truly sorry you're going through such a rough time. Not having hope is a terrible place to be in. I hope that your hope returns to you once you've 'washed that man outta your hair'. I'm glad you are still here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Nov 12, 1998 at 13:02:10 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Luis Subject: We are helpers Message: Yeah, there is a lot of repitition here, but you never know when a new person who needs to hear this will log on and read it for the very first time. Everyone has a different motive for being here. Mine is to help someone. If that means wading in some repetition, ok by me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |