Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 29 | |
From: Nov 14, 1998 |
To: Nov 27, 1998 |
Page: 4 Of: 5 |
Brian -:- In defense of Guru Marijuana -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 08:31:44 (EST) __Jerry -:- In defense of Guru Marijuana -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 09:26:05 (EST) ____SHP -:- In defense of Guru Marijuana -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 13:49:36 (EST) ______LSD -:- In defense of Guru Marijuana -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:14:02 (EST) ________SHP -:- No defense necessary -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:46:51 (EST) ______Jerry -:- In defense of Guru Marijuana -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 16:26:16 (EST) __Jim -:- Pussy -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 11:43:02 (EST) ____SHP -:- Pussy? -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:06:06 (EST) ____Helen -:- Language (ot) -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:56:31 (EST) ______Jim -:- Language (ot) -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 20:40:41 (EST) ________Jim -:- One more thing -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 20:51:40 (EST) __________Helen -:- Language -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 21:06:48 (EST) __Mike -:- No defense for Guru Marijuana -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 12:06:06 (EST) ____Barney -:- Benjie, 'Plastics!' -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 12:46:12 (EST) ______SHP -:- response -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 17:02:32 (EST) ________hamzen -:- response -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 15:49:29 (EST) ____SHP -:- No defense necessary -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 15:22:35 (EST) ______hamzen -:- No defense necessary -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 15:56:50 (EST) ________SHP -:- No defense necessary -:- Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 18:22:53 (EST) __Katie -:- the DuPonts and the video -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:05:00 (EST) ____SHP -:- the DuPonts and the video -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:38:14 (EST) ______JW -:- the DuPonts and the video -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:54:35 (EST) ________SHP -:- the DuPonts and the video -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 16:07:09 (EST) __________JW -:- Bullshit -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 17:11:38 (EST) __________Jerry -:- Huh? -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 17:11:41 (EST) ____________SHP -:- Huh? -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 17:51:27 (EST) ______________Gerry -:- Huh? -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 22:21:23 (EST) ________________SHP -:- Huh? -:- Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 17:00:57 (EST) ______Jerry -:- Experience? Or does it suck? -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 16:51:34 (EST) ______Mike -:- I'm teaching my kid -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 15:12:22 (EST) __SHP -:- Nothing to defend -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 15:05:57 (EST) ____Gerry -:- oooowwww, fresh meat! -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 16:24:23 (EST) ______SHP -:- nothing substantial per Gerry -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 17:46:37 (EST) ________Gerry -:- I won't grow up, I won't gro -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 18:21:41 (EST) ________Jim -:- bad, bad thinking -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:08:22 (EST) __Katie -:- In defense of the web site -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 16:47:37 (EST) ____SHP -:- website needs no defense -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 18:05:52 (EST) ______gerry -:- oh bull whappy! nt -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 18:44:54 (EST) ____hamzen -:- In defense of the web site -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 15:41:20 (EST) __srb -:- good grief -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 18:44:11 (EST) ____srb -:- my mistake -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:27:06 (EST) ______srb=bill burke -:- Remember the monastary? -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 21:13:40 (EST) ________SHP -:- Remember the monastary? -:- Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 17:54:38 (EST) __Helen -:- Hey SHP -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 20:18:46 (EST) ____SHP -:- Reply to Helen -:- Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 18:33:46 (EST) ______Helen -:- Reply to SHP -:- Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 19:19:37 (EST) ________Helen -:- Reply to SHP:COncepts -:- Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 03:34:03 (EST) __________op -:- a few comments... -:- Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 09:57:20 (EST) ____________SHP -:- a few comments... -:- Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 10:20:36 (EST) ______________op -:- a few comments... -:- Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 11:43:21 (EST) ________________SHP -:- a few comments... -:- Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 15:31:16 (EST) __________________op -:- a few comments... -:- Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 01:54:02 (EST) ____________Jim -:- hi, op -:- Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 12:02:02 (EST) ______________VP -:- hi, op-nt -:- Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 12:07:39 (EST) ____________VP -:- LOTU, to op :) -:- Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 12:49:56 (EST) ______________Katie -:- LOTU, to op :) -:- Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 13:40:23 (EST) __________SHP -:- Reply to Helen -:- Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 10:09:00 (EST) ____________Helen -:- Reply to Helen -:- Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 12:12:36 (EST) ______________SHP -:- Reply to Helen -:- Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 02:26:56 (EST) ________________Jim -:- Thanks -:- Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 04:00:47 (EST) __________________SHP -:- Thanks -:- Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 10:45:05 (EST) ________________Helen -:- Reply to SHP -:- Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 10:33:49 (EST) __________________Talks to dirt -:- Oneness talking to itself -:- Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 11:19:59 (EST) ____________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Reply to Helen -:- Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 16:45:31 (EST) ______________SHP -:- Reply to Mickey -:- Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 02:09:25 (EST) ________________Helen -:- Reply to Mickey -:- Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 11:09:03 (EST) __________________SHP -:- here's a source -:- Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 11:29:28 (EST) ____________________Helen -:- mensches in the trenches -:- Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 11:59:27 (EST) ____________________Mickey the Pharisee -:- here's a source -:- Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 23:02:40 (EST) ______________________Mickey the Pharisee -:- P.S. -:- Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 23:05:48 (EST) ________________________SHP -:- P.S. -:- Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 00:48:57 (EST) __________________________Mickey the Pharisee -:- P.S. -:- Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 01:41:39 (EST) ____________________________SHP -:- P.S. -:- Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 02:02:21 (EST) ______________________________Mickey the Pharisee -:- P.S. -:- Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 12:28:05 (EST) ________________________________SHP -:- P.S. -:- Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 12:55:27 (EST) another ex-premie -:- mj endorsement???? -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 07:45:57 (EST) __Brian -:- mj endorsement???? -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 08:53:49 (EST) ____another ex-premie -:- mj endorsement???? -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:48:57 (EST) ______JW -:- TO AP and Brian -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 12:59:15 (EST) ________Mike -:- TO JW -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 14:19:29 (EST) ________another ex-premie -:- Who was that masked man??? -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 14:48:33 (EST) ________Nigel -:- TO AP and Brian -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 19:41:36 (EST) Bruce -:- EX-PREMIE FRAUDS EXPOSED -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 02:29:53 (EST) __Jim -:- EX-PREMIE FRAUDS EXPOSED -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 02:52:48 (EST) __Goldie -:- EX-PREMIE FRAUDS EXPOSED -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 02:53:08 (EST) __Robyn -:- EX-PREMIE FRAUDS EXPOSED -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 07:59:02 (EST) __bruce is obviously not a -:- very bright fellow. -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 08:03:37 (EST) __Jerry -:- EX-PREMIE FRAUDS EXPOSED -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 09:50:25 (EST) __Mike -:- Bruce EXPOSED -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 09:58:15 (EST) ____Jerry -:- Bruce EXPOSED -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 10:20:40 (EST) ______Robyn -:- Jerry -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 10:44:35 (EST) ________Jerry -:- Love ya, Robyn -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 12:35:09 (EST) __________Mike -:- I love you man... -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 12:42:35 (EST) ____________Jerry -:- You're not gettin my Budweiser -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:46:43 (EST) ______Katie -:- Me Too, Mike -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 15:10:36 (EST) ________Helen -:- Group hug! (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:35:13 (EST) __Helen -:- EX-PREMIE FRAUDS EXPOSED -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:09:22 (EST) Gail -:- Info for Orlando the asshole! -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 00:38:25 (EST) __TD -:- Take that Orlando! -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 02:52:12 (EST) __An Enemy -:- Info for Orlando the asshole! -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 03:25:45 (EST) ____Orlando the a... -:- talk about threats! -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 09:38:26 (EST) ______Mike -:- talk about threats! -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 10:05:48 (EST) ________Orlando -:- i am so scared -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 10:29:05 (EST) __________david m -:- i am so scared!!!!!!!!!!!! -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 11:30:10 (EST) __________Mike -:- i am so scared -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 12:36:02 (EST) __________Gail -:- Madge isn't my friend anymore. -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 13:41:50 (EST) ____________Katie -:- Madge isn't my friend anymore. -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 13:54:33 (EST) __________Helen -:- i am so scared -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 18:57:12 (EST) __JW -:- Info for Orlando the asshole! -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 09:40:25 (EST) ____Jim -:- Talk about stereotyping!! -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 11:47:57 (EST) ______david m -:- Canadian Hockey OT -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 13:13:42 (EST) ______JW -:- Talk about stereotyping!! -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 13:27:38 (EST) ____TD -:- Upon my word JW, I dare say -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 17:51:08 (EST) ______JW -:- Upon my word JW, I dare say -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:13:54 (EST) ____Mike -:- Awash???? -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 18:56:42 (EST) ______JW -:- Awash???? -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:21:33 (EST) ________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Awash???? -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 21:53:56 (EST) __________Mike -:- Awash???? -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 09:47:15 (EST) ____________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Awash???? -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 11:25:25 (EST) ______________Mike -:- Awash???? -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 13:15:47 (EST) ________Mike -:- I don't know.... -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 09:44:35 (EST) __VP -:- Jim should call Madeline -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:56:49 (EST) ____Jim -:- I did -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 18:42:31 (EST) ______JW -:- I did -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:35:27 (EST) ________Jim -:- Tonight -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:49:21 (EST) ______Orlando -:- caught again... -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 21:40:40 (EST) ________Jim -:- no, just stupid, that's all -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 22:36:27 (EST) __________Orlando -:- i will wait -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 09:27:24 (EST) ____________Jim -:- Intimidation follow-up -:- Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 20:47:33 (EST) david m -:- The Merry Prankster Cafe -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 23:22:57 (EST) __Gail -:- Soon, snail-mail will be the -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 00:13:12 (EST) ____TD -:- Enjoyinglife.org Lite -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 01:26:40 (EST) ______VP -:- LOL, TD!-nt -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:59:41 (EST) red heart -:- Best site on the web -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 20:33:02 (EST) __Jim -:- My follow-up letter to ELK -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 20:51:55 (EST) ____Jim -:- My follow-up to my follow-up -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:06:44 (EST) ____JW -:- Patterns? -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:15:48 (EST) ____VP -:- My follow-up letter to ELK -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:21:58 (EST) ____Jerry -:- My follow-up letter to ELK -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 10:18:34 (EST) __TD -:- Most draconian site on the web -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 20:52:59 (EST) ____JW -:- Most draconian site on the web -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:00:01 (EST) ______Peter -:- Premie Pravda -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:26:36 (EST) ________JW -:- Premie Pravda -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:30:02 (EST) ____Selene -:- Most draconian site on the web -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:00:14 (EST) ______Selene -:- ps to Nigel, JW and all -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:08:25 (EST) __Nigel -:- Like the melting snow, indeed. -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:28:02 (EST) ____JW -:- Like the melting snow, indeed. -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:47:43 (EST) ______TD -:- Snow melts bloody fast! -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:59:54 (EST) ________Nigel -:- Snow melts bloody fast! -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 22:23:00 (EST) ______Nigel -:- Like the melting snow, indeed. -:- Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 22:47:57 (EST) ________Marion the Jailer -:- Alice the Goon .org -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 01:30:16 (EST) __Mickey the Pharisee -:- Best site on the web -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 01:47:20 (EST) __Red as a Beet -:- Best site on the web -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 03:07:59 (EST) ____Joy -:- Censorship -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:48:54 (EST) ______Selene -:- Censorship -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:51:14 (EST) ________the devil -:- that damn elk.org -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 16:00:40 (EST) __Mike -:- Best Liars on the web -:- Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:07:09 (EST) ____Mike -:- Best Censors on the web -:- Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 13:01:53 (EST) |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 08:31:44 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: In defense of Guru Marijuana Message: This arrived in this morning's email via the Feedback form on the site. The anonymous poster [SHP] makes the usual premie assertions, with some new gibberish thrown in: Maharaji and Jesus! Think about it! Maharaji and Krishna! Think about it! Maharaji and Plastic! Recycle it! Maharaji and Marijuana! What was the question?? Dupont and Rockefeller and Hearst! What forum is this?? The letter follows: This is not a defense of Maharaji, Knowledge or any individual. It is rather a heartfelt response to having read some of your website, with respect for you, the reader. I still practice Knowledge. I happened upon the ex-premie.org website and have been looking at it for the last three hours or so, trying to understand your disillusionment with Maharaji and Knowledge. I do not wish to give you my e-mail because I do not wish to be inundated with negativity about Maharaji. If you post this message in your Forum, leave me a message there and I will take note and appreciate it. Your website is so full of anger, I want no part of the anger. I have something to share with you if you will allow me. Just consider this, my fellow human beings: You highlight a video that won the 'Alfred I. DuPont Award', satirizing Maharaji. Consider the fact that the DuPont family is responsible in a major way for the pollution of the world with all of its synthetic plastics, in collusion with the Rockefellers who provided the raw petrochemical materials to make all the plastics. It was the DuPonts, along with the Rockefellers and the Hearsts (timber/paper industrialists) who, in the 1930's, demonized perhaps the most useful plant on earth - hemp - and caused it to disappear from the public awareness, all for greed. I realized when I saw your respectful reference to the DuPont name - as if that name legitimized the video satirizing Maharaji - that your understanding is limited about that which you criticize. Devotees have made mistakes all throughout history, and the actions of Masters have been questioned and attacked by doubters just as long. What you are doing is nothing new, just doing it on the internet instead of at the water well or the town square is the novelty. Who among us would have recognized Jesus when he walked the earth? The historian Josephus recorded that only 126 people actually followed him for the whole 3 years of his ministry. Who of us would have rec- ognized Buddha or Krishna if we were there at the time? It is easy to look back (hindsight is 20/20 they say) and vouch for past Masters, but don't you think that their devotees were also just a little screwed up? And don't you think that the Masters purposely did things to blow minds and concepts of their times? Jesus dropped his cross 3 times, broke the letter of the law about the sabbath, and generally messed with the minds of his critics constantly. And as he hung on the cross, the skptics said 'yeah, right'. Buddha just sat and 'silently transmitted' his Knowledge to his devotees under the bodhi tree... I can see skeptics standing by going, 'yeah, right' nearby. 'What a racket.... sitting there doing nothing and claiming enlightenment'. Krishna told Arjuna to go and kill everybody because they were dead anyway... I can just see some skeptics back then going 'yeah, right'. Whatever you believe or don't believe about Maharaji right now, do you believe that judging others is cool? If you are not into Maharaji or Knowledge anymore, why do you feel a mission to hurt? You feel a mission to hurt because you have been hurt, because you once believed that it was all true and now you don't. Your beliefs don't make it so for anyone else but you. Circumstances can be misleading. If you really feel that Maharaji isn't cool, why aren't you looking for what will satisfy you as intensely as you revile him? Could it be that you would like to be shown something deeper that will give you the proof you need? I have written to you in love from one human being to another. When I saw your reverence for the DuPont name in your website I realized that I needed to communicate with you. Instead of poking and scrutinizing Maharaji and those who try to serve him - with all their human frail- ties - why don't you look inside yourselves? Also, as I was scanning through your website, its seems that you have personal relationships with some premies you are attacking - is this some sort of personal vendetta some of you have for some folks who are still with Maharaji? The thirst Maharaji speaks of is real, whether you believe that his Knowledge can quench it or not. Is your website quenching your inner thirst? You call your website ex-premie.org, but in essence you are still premies, lovers of truth - you still want truth in your lives, as evidenced by the intensity of your messages - and you think that you have exposed some untruths about Maharaji. So you are still lovers of truth, supposedly seeking it by exposing the faults of other human beings. Well, that is no accomplishment, since all human beings make mistakes, including (especially) devotees. Read the holy books. The devotees are constantly messing up. And the Master's actions are constantly reviled, criticized and judged. To paraphrase Jack Nicholson in the movie 'A Few Good Men': 'You want the truth? Well, (maybe) you can't handle the truth' just yet..... I am not brainwashed. I was born and raised Jewish, spent a year on a communal farm and 3 years in a Christian monastery before finding out about Maharaji. I spent the first decade of my adult life seeking the answer to my existence, and would not proceed with 'life as usual' until I got my thirst quenched. Receiving Knowledge did it for me, and nothing I read on your website has shaken my faith. Some of the things you mentioned raise questions as to the specific details, incidents and people involved, but not about the basic reality of Maharaji and Knowledge. I have no quarrel with any of you. I wish you all well and a happy holiday-here-and-now season. Please take my words to heart and post this if you dare. If you don't want to be hypocrites, post it as-is. Sincere responses/reactions will be appreciated. Save your sarcasm and cynicism, please. I did not stay up all night writing this to get spit on, but if any of you are seriously trying to sort it all out, if there is a shred of hope in any of you that you weren't wrong when you came to Maharaji, then follow your own heart, not the will of any group, even the group of 'ex-premies' you are in now. Due to your admitted pseudonyms and submissions to enjoyinglife.org, I would have to question the sincerity of any direct responses to this letter. Therefore, I remain one anonymous heartfelt and sincere human being just trying to communicate to any open heart who reads this. Really, the DuPont Award? You call that credibility? Study your history, my brothers and sisters. DuPont has been raping this planet for the last 75 or so years, creating Frankenstein synthetics and polluting the world for profit. Only recently, under severe pressure, has there been any move toward responsible recycling or biodegradable packaging. DuPont was a major player removing hemp from the human family, a plant that has supplied food, medicine, building materials, clothing, fuel, rope, sails, and thousands of other derivative uses since antiquity. From what I gather, some of you are from Europe, so you must be aware of this. Sometimes a little glitch in one's logic requires a rethinking of one's entire premise. I respect your group's intelligence enough to have stayed up all night to say my piece, so for your own sakes, please have the decency and self-respect enough to regard the truth where you may find it. God bless you all. SHP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 09:26:05 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Brian Subject: In defense of Guru Marijuana Message: Whatever you believe or don't believe about Maharaji right now, do you believe that judging others is cool? If you are not into Maharaji or Knowledge anymore, why do you feel a mission to hurt? For me, personally, if it wasn't for this website, I'd still be in M's clutches, so I'm forever grateful for it. I'm sure there are plenty others who feel the same way. I have no desire to hurt anybody by posting on this forum, just to help those who were like me, in M's clutches unable to break free, that's all. People who are happy with Maharaji, I would recommend they stay away from this website. It's not meant for them. I have written to you in love from one human being to another. No you haven't. Cut the bullshit. You're here in defense of Maharaji, nothing else. Read the holy books. I've read the holy books. I think they're all bullshit. Sorry to be so negative about it. To paraphrase Jack Nicholson in the movie 'A Few Good Men': 'You want the truth? Well, (maybe) you can't handle the truth' just yet..... (Chuckle, chuckle) Thanks for that, SHP. Nothing to start off the morning like a good belly laugh. I am not brainwashed. I was born and raised Jewish Is there supposed to be some connection here? I was born and raised Catholic. Does that mean I am brainwashed? Heh heh heh. Save your sarcasm and cynicism, please. I'm sorry. I'm just that kind of guy. After 18 years of being snowed by M, I really don't have much positive to say. And after all your baloney, I really can't think of a better way to respond. Therefore, I remain one anonymous heartfelt and sincere human being just trying to communicate to any open heart who reads this. Gee, I really don't feel that, SHP. Maybe bullshit don't fly so well around here and you should try your act somewhere else whaddya think? God bless you all. Jai Satchitanand. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 13:49:36 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Jerry Subject: In defense of Guru Marijuana Message: No you haven't. Cut the bullshit. You're here in defense of Maharaji, nothing else. >So you can read hearts and minds? If you have that power, why did you come to M in first place? People who are happy with Maharaji, I would recommend they stay away from this website. It's not meant for them. >Same goes for enjoyinglife.org, it's for people who are happy with M and K, so why don't you stay away from that one? I've read the holy books. I think they're all bullshit. Sorry to be so negative about it. >Bullshit is very underrated...it makes great fertilizer. I wasn't totally surprised to see my letter trashed and twisted and hemp maligned. It shows me how pissed off you are. But you have not answered my simple question: Why do you give DuPont so much credibility when presenting the video Lord of the Unvierse parody on your Nuts and Bolts page when DuPont did so much harm to the earth? Synthetics can be created (at less profit) without all the pollution, so don't try to categorize me as some kind of throw-back to the primitive. I am merely saying that is seems to be a contradiction: here you are 'exposing the faults of M', and even digging for them, and at the same time using one of the biggest environmental criminals in history as a testimonial. Why don't you be consistent and bust everyone who obviously deserves it, not just the ones you have a personal bone to pick with? Maybe you need to get away from all the pro-con about M activity and get back in touch with yourself. Is there supposed to be some connection here? I was born and raised Catholic. Does that mean I am brainwashed? Heh heh heh. >That was simply a cheap-out-of-context shot. I was saying that I had been spending alot of time looking for reality in my life and just gave a few background facts...your comment gets the 'pearls before swine award for the day'. And your use of the term 'marijuana' is also ignorant...it's like somebody offered you a poppyseed bagel and you go off screaming about the poppy/opium connection. Really, aren't you just looking for your peers' jeering approval of your sarcastic wit? >Believe it or not, I wish you and everybody with you well. I see that my message has drawn some feedback, and I will answer some for a short time, but do not intend to be drawn into debates or long drawn-out insult matches, which was never my intention in the first place. Peace. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:14:02 (EST)
From: LSD Email: None To: SHP Subject: In defense of Guru Marijuana Message: First the dope says: So you can read hearts and minds? If you have that power, why did you come to M in first place? Then he/she says: Really, aren't you just looking for your peers' jeering approval of your sarcastic wit? NOW WHO'SE READING MINDS? It's ok, though, I do it all the time...like right now you're thinking: servicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditation servicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditation servicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditation servicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditationservicesatsangmeditation... And now you're thinking, 'boy that must have taken a long time to type...' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:46:51 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: LSD Subject: No defense necessary Message: Actually, what I was thinking was that you are enjoying yourself and not hurting anybody, L. Good for you! Your energy is like a little bird on a rhinoceros' back, just going along for the ride. Do you wear a 3-horned jester's hat with bells on it, too? Reading minds and reading vibes directed at you are two diffrent things. When you realize the difference, perhaps we can continue our dialog. Peace. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 16:26:16 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: SHP Subject: In defense of Guru Marijuana Message: So you can read hearts and minds? If you have that power, why did you come to M in first place? Because I was an idiot who didn't know if he was coming or going, and that fat fuck lied to me that if I practiced this Knowledge, he would help me get it all back together. Thankfully, ex-premie.org popped up and for the first time since I've HEARD of Maharaji I feel as if somebody's finally talking sense to me about this trip. Why do you give DuPont so much credibility when presenting the video Lord of the Unvierse parody on your Nuts and Bolts page when DuPont did so much harm to the earth? What are you gabbing about, SO MUCH credibility? It's just mentioned in passing that the video won the award. Who cares about DuPont anyway? It's not as if we've dedicated this website to them to extoll their virtues the way EL has for Maharaji. You need to work on your analogies to put things in better perspective. This is all about Maharaji and HIS credibility, not DuPont's. Fuck DuPont. Can you say that about Maharaji? Can you say fuck Maharaji? I didn't think so. Maybe you need to get away from all the pro-con about M activity and get back in touch with yourself. Actually, I feel strangely moved by this proposal. It's the most sensible thing you've said so far. It does get to be a grind after awhile, this Maharaji obsession thing. But isn't that what M wants, our obsession? Well, he's got it, on BOTH sides of the fence. The only difference is that we're breaking free from him. You never will be. You'll always be obsessed, premie. That's what being a premie is all about, obsessing over M. It's sick. Really, aren't you just looking for your peers' jeering approval of your sarcastic wit? No. I just made a funny, is all. You set yourself up for it and I took advantage. I'm sorry, I can't help myself sometimes. If you worked where I do, you'd be on the lookout for comic relief every chance you get, too. Peace. Right on. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 11:43:02 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Brian Subject: Pussy Message: I get a laugh out of people who say they want to discuss something but only with a gurantee that they as people won't be judged or their ideas (no matter how stupid) won't be subject to ridicule or sarcasm. I guess they do this so they can just spout any sort of nonsense. I mean, this guy here -- Mr. Shri Hans Productions -- or whatever his name is, says so much amazingly silly stuff, what would be the point of even beginning to comnet without free reign? There wouldn't be one. SHP, you're just a dummy, sonny. If you want to post here yourself, pseudonym and all, we cna talk. Otherwise, forget it, man. You're just worth a bit of a laugh. Had it. Thanks. Next? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:06:06 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Jim Subject: Pussy? Message: I get a laugh out of people who say they want to discuss something but only with a gurantee that they as people won't be judged or their ideas (no matter how stupid) won't be subject to ridicule or sarcasm. I guess they do this so they can just spout any sort of nonsense. I mean, this guy here -- Mr. Shri Hans Productions -- or whatever his name is, says so much amazingly silly stuff, what would be the point of even beginning to comment without free reign? There wouldn't be one. SHP, you're just a dummy, sonny. If you want to post here yourself, pseudonym and all, we can talk. Otherwise, forget it, man. You're just worth a bit of a laugh. Had it. Thanks. Next? >Here I am, Jim. You have the reigns of your life back in your own hands having left M, so who is stopping you from commenting? I never asked for any guarantees, and as a matter of fact kind of expected some sort of lashing out in initial responses from your org. So what is it that you consider 'amazingly silly stuff'? I may be a dummy about alot of things, but I am not your son (isn't that putting yourself above me, something you accuse M of doing to intimidate his followers?) Happy to bring some laughter into your life, it's good for the heart. C'mon, Jim, meow meow!!!!!!!!!! No more biting or scratching or hissing, let's just be cool cats (no pussies here) and communicate if you are able. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:56:31 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: Language (ot) Message: Er, Jim could you remember that there are women on this forum who find words like 'pussy' to be offensive? We can go offline to discuss why this word is incredibly offensive to many women. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 20:40:41 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Helen Subject: Language (ot) Message: Helen, Would you say the same thing about calling someone a 'prick'? How about a 'dick'? Then there's that memorable epithet from some recent movie who's name escapes me: 'penis breath'. You know, as far as I know, 'pussy' derives from 'pussycat' anyway. You know, like 'scaredy cat', timid like a cat (as if). That's the kind of meaning it has, isn't it? Go on. I'm listening. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 20:51:40 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: One more thing Message: What about 'balls' as in so-and-so doesn't have any? Onjectionable? Why? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 21:06:48 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jim Subject: Language Message: Yeah, I thought about those commenserate words also. My husband and I had a long talk about this last night.He told me that 'pussy' is used between men to connote 'unmanly' or 'without balls', 'A girly man' I always heard the word pussy as in 'I'm gonna get me some pussy tonight'. (ie sex without any emotion involved) Used in this way it sort of reinforces the stereotype that men just want to use women for what's between their legs, slam, bam, thank you, m'aam. Guess I've taught too many teenagers and have heard it too much in an offensive context. But yeah, I'll use the word prick, or numb nuts, or dickhead so your point is well taken. Isn't language fun? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 12:06:06 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: SHP Subject: No defense for Guru Marijuana Message: SHP: You make an assumption that I have to comment on.... You ask, 'would we recognize Buddha or Krishna?' The question I have for you is, 'what if they were fake, too?' You base your entire attitude towards M on the supposed 'holiness' of these prior folks that were very likely con-men. M should stand on his own merit, not those that passed before. The problem is, he doesn't have any merit that he can stand upon! Where, I ask, is a soul that he has enlightened? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 12:46:12 (EST)
From: Barney Email: None To: Mike Subject: Benjie, 'Plastics!' Message: SHP, just as guns by themseleves are not dangerous, it is not plastic that is dangerous, but the people who use plastic. Really, dude, get a grip on reality. Until you give it all up and start living a stoneage lifestyle (start by giving up your computer, your car or public transportation, your refrigerator, food shipped in from miles away, etc.) your ignorant complaints about DuPont, et al, only reveal your massive naivete. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an apologist for industry and capitalism. Oh, before you start living in the stoneage, I should remind you that your life expectancy will probably decrease to about 35 years, 40 if you don't get sick once a week from drinking bad water. We are all so hooked into modern industrialism and all its costs and benefits that without it we'd be swimming and drinking our own fecal matter. Think I'm kidding? Think Nicaruagua and Honduras post hurricane. They've gone stoneage - no roads, no communications, no food, no water, no medicine. etc. You need to cut down on your glaucoma medicine. Finally, from a DuPont advertisemnt, life is not possible without chemicals. P.S. What about the Tri-Lateral commission? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 17:02:32 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Barney Subject: response Message: Hey Barney, I may be alot of things, but naive I am not. Things in the world are as they are now and we have to deal from the square we are on. Yeah, I am typing on a plastic keyboard and yadda yadda yadda. I cannot stop or change what has already happened, but I can be instrumental in helping to make things better. Your satiric writing talents did not go unnoticed, but you are wasting your time trying to discredit my position. It is possible to have as many or more earth-friendly techno-advances than we even have now without the pollution. Check out a Real Goods catalog or a Whole Earth Catalog sometime - you may learn something. There are more alternatives to the plastic/pollution corporate/greed syndrome than going back to prehistory or post-hurrican central America. M hasn't brainwashed you, Barney, this screwed-up culture has, as evidenced by the limited choices you think you have to maintain a decent lifestyle. >You need to cut down on your glaucoma medicine. I don't have glaucoma but I get it...yuk yuk. >Finally, from a DuPont advertisemnt, life is not possible without chemicals. Yeah, and the milk industry says to drink 3 glasses a day, and the cotton industry says it's the fabric of our lives, and the pork industry says to discover the 'other white meat' and Burger King says have it your way, and many of the religions say come with us or go to hell, and everybody who is selling anything is shouting at you that you can't live without what they are pushing - and you lap it up, Barney. And because of people thinking like you, the world has become the way it is. You sound like a young guy, Barney. Empower yourself. If you are so gung-ho to bust M for what you think he did/does/will do wrong, why can't you see the crap all around you that you are convinced you cannot live without, and realize that you can? Think about it. You said: P.S. What about the Tri-Lateral commission? >I give up, Barney, what about it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 15:49:29 (EST)
From: hamzen Email: None To: SHP Subject: response Message: With you ALL the way, on this post at least! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 15:22:35 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mike Subject: No defense necessary Message: You make an assumption that I have to comment on.... You ask, 'would we recognize Buddha or Krishna?' The question I have for you is, 'what if they were fake, too?' You base your entire attitude towards M on the supposed 'holiness' of these prior folks that were very likely con-men. M should stand on his own merit, not those that passed before. The problem is, he doesn't have any merit that he can stand upon! Where, I ask, is a soul that he has enlightened? >Hey Mike, Sometimes in life one has to go on a gut feeling, a hunch, a 'vibe', or whatever you want to call it. There is no one to check it out with, no one, no book, no authority, no nothing but your own human being's receivers inside of you. That's it, man. That is why I continue to go on in my practice of K and my respect for M. You are right, his virtue should stand on its own without any references to anyone else, and to me it does. I don't think that I am completely 'enlightened' but I have been pointed in what feels like the right direction by M to that endless way. You ask to be shown a soul that he has enlightened, and I say look in the mirror. Whatever you decide to do with your life, I hope that you discover your own personal sense of knowing inside and guide on it. Peer group pressure whether inside or outside EV is bull. Take care. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 15:56:50 (EST)
From: hamzen Email: None To: SHP Subject: No defense necessary Message: Do you see any seperation between k and m? One thing going with hunches, intuitions, another having complete faith in the place those hunches come from and I'm certain even more dangerous when you do it long term- unknown effects on your personal reality model and your experience of the moment. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 18:22:53 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: hamzen Subject: No defense necessary Message: We humans have lost touch with alot of faculties our ancestors had going for them...they paid attention to 'angels' and 'visions' from ancient India to the Native Americans...they honored Father Sky and Mother Earth, and therefore had rapport with energies and powers in the creation that 'modern' humanity has alienated. Or you might just call it common sense/cosmic sense. They trusted the 'still small voice within'. I want to, in my life and for my descendants, turn that process around for my bloodline. It was from that excercised place inside of me (I had been doing it for awhile before running across M,) of intuition, that I came to receive K. Go figure. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:05:00 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: SHP Subject: the DuPonts and the video Message: Dear SHP - I just wanted to say a couple of things about the DuPont family and the Lord of the Universe video. First, I don't like the DuPont chemical company any more than you do. I know they're major polluters (just drive through Wilmington, Delaware some times). The reference to the award was made to show that the video (it was actually a TV show broadcast circa 1974) was legitimate and not some fly-by-night thing. I DON'T think it shows that the website has 'reverence' or 'respect' for the DuPont chemical company. I actually have no idea who Alfred DuPont is and what his association with the family is (is he the founder or something?). Secondly, the Lord of the Universe video is NOT a satirization or hatchet job. It's pretty informative - in fact some of the exes on this site said it could have been mistaken for a Shri Hans Production video until the end. I thought they did a pretty good job of being objective. Anyway, some premies I know are going to watch it and maybe they will say what they think about it. Just my thoughts, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:38:14 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Katie Subject: the DuPonts and the video Message: >Thank you for responding with such a pleasant vibe. I have been looking at some of the other responses to my letter and some of it has been really nasty. No offense taken. You said: The reference to the award was made to show that the video (it was actually a TV show broadcast circa 1974) was legitimate and not some fly-by-night thing. >That's the big lie that the world has sold us: that because some multi-billion dollar company endorses something, it's legit. History will record that those who have wantonly destroyed our earth home are the real 'fly-by-nighters' and it has been a long night that hopefully will soon be over. All the ancient prophecies talk about such a time, from the Druids to the Native Americans, when all the evil will go away. (I don't have the details or the timetable, but I believe it anyway, like a child) You said: I DON'T think it shows that the website has 'reverence' or 'respect' for the DuPont chemical company. I actually have no idea who Alfred DuPont is and what his association with the family is (is he the founder or something?). >Your org's use of the name is called a testimonial and most certainly the mention of the name and the award is meant to evoke an added respect from the reader. This show an inconsistentcy with your org's intolerance for bull. I feel that you are a kind person, from the attitude with which you responded to me and I thank you for your gentleness. You said: in fact some of the exes on this site said it could have been mistaken for a Shri Hans Production video until the end. >That's like saying the can of paint is pure orange, except for the drop of green somebody dropped into it. I am teaching my kids to say they did not like something rather than 'it sucked'. The first expression is unarguable, it is the experience of the person, and the second expression is an opinion, which is judgement, and therefore subjective and fallible. Buddha, Lao-Tsu and Jesus all said in their own ways (if it matters to you) that whoever wants enlightenment must let go of their opinions. That doesn't mean to become a zombie, it means to speak from your own experience rather than to possibly malign someone else just because you did not care for something or someone by casting judgement. I am just trying to convey something I learned along the way, not to be a teacher or anything like that. I have found that I can stay in peace more by speaking from my direct experience of something or someone rather than judging it either 'good' or 'bad'. Thank you again for your kind communication, whether we agree or not. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:54:35 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: SHP Subject: the DuPonts and the video Message: That's the big lie that the world has sold us: that because some multi-billion dollar company endorses something, it's legit. I think you've made your point SHP, but the REAL point I think you are missing. The LOTU video was done by PBS, and it won a DuPont something-or-other award. Maybe you think the award is worthless because it is connected with the DuPonts, but that doesn't detract from the video itself. If Brian removes mention of the award, does that change your mind about the video? By the way, have you seen it? There is no evidence that the DuPonts financed or put PBS up to doing the prpogram. It was only after the program was completed that it won the award. And I'm certainly not aware that the DuPonts give a shit one way or the other about Maharaji. Look, people can say the same things about the Rockefellar or Ford Foundations. Some even say it about NEA grants. But if those organizations award something, it shouldn't detract from the work itself, although to you it might. I am probably about as 'anti-corporate' as you can get. I even voted for Ralph Nader for president. But even I can see you are making a mountain out of a mole hill regarding this. It's actually kind of cool that the only criticism you have of the website is some obscure mention of some award that some film won. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 16:07:09 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: JW Subject: the DuPonts and the video Message: You said: It's actually kind of cool that the only criticism you have of the website is some obscure mention of some award that some film won. >JW: It was never my intention to criticize anything about your website in the first place. I think you pre-judged me as some gung-ho premie hot on the trail of renegade premies or something. Let me assure you, this is not the case. Now that the conversation has become more peaceful, please let me tell you how I even got here. My wife was looking for the enjoyinglife.org website to check it out and somehow mistyped the url to bring up you guys. I was surprised and all that, but being who I am, I looked around to see what feelings and facts had generated your site. I was checking it out for a very long time into the night and was about to go offline when I ran across the reference to DuPont. Being aware of the many uses of industrial hemp and how its commercial absence created the need to de-forest and pollute much of the earth, I sensed a contradiction in your use of the DuPont name to lend credibility to anything, given your low tolerance for bull, which I share, by the way. So I spent the rest of the night trying to craft a response that would respectfully disagree with you, not criticize or attack. And as far as 'making a mountain out of a molehill', JW, it's folks like DuPont who are doing just the opposite - making a molehill out of the mountain that was once a beautiful planet. I am just saying be consistent, that's all. If you are going to bust things you consider to be detrimental, then bust them all. I have no quarrel with your feelings about M, you are entitled to whatever feelings you have about anything. I am not here to change you or anyone else, just myself. I just wanted to express myself (great country America - Free Speech for all, you and me both) from my heart(believe it or not), because that is what your website evoked from me. So have a good life. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 17:11:38 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: SHP Subject: Bullshit Message: SHP, you said: It was never my intention to criticize anything about your website in the first place. I think you pre-judged me as some gung-ho premie hot on the trail of renegade premies or something. I don't know if you are a renegade premie, but you certainly did mention the DuPont issue as a criticism of the site, when you said, above, I realized when I saw your respectful reference to the DuPont name - as if that name legitimized the video satirizing Maharaji - that your understanding is limited about that which you criticize. I responded that the DuPont award was irrelevent as to the legitimacy of the video. You can criticize the DuPonts all you like, but it's irrelevent to the LOTU video. Even if anyone's understanding of the DuPonts is limited, it doesn't follow that anyone's understanding of what Maharaji claims to be, and what he does, it limited. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 17:11:41 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: SHP Subject: Huh? Message: My wife was looking for the enjoyinglife.org website to check it out and somehow mistyped the url to bring up you guys. Your wife SOMEHOW typed E-X-P-R-E-M-I-E.O-R-G when she meant to type E-N-J-O-Y-I-N-G-L-I-F-E.O-R-G???? Hahahahahahahaha........ Keep 'em coming, SHP, I love 'em. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 17:51:27 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Huh? Message: Actually, she typed enjoyinglife.org but with different punctuation into a certain search engine and got 3 websites listed, yours among them. I don't lie. And I am sure as hell not going to tell any more of you how it happened. You are rabid, and you can't blame M for your inability to be civil. Ta-ta. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 22:21:23 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: gerry@liarsclub,org To: SHP Subject: Huh? Message: Actually, she typed enjoyinglife.org but with different punctuation into a certain search engine and got 3 websites listed, yours among them. Yeah, I have that problem all the time. Just last night I typed ''bunny rabbit'' into the search engine at aol and put a comma in instead of a dot. Patty was walking by just then, and wouldn't you know, up popped these pictures of nekkid ladies. I tried to tell her ''shit happens'' but she wasn't buyin'. Could you have your wife e-mail my wife? I put my address above. Thanks and, uh, Jay sachanon or sumpthin'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 17:00:57 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Huh? Message: Ya know Gerry, if I could trust you not to take the information and abuse it, I'd tell you the exact details, just as I had told you the basic generalities. But you are so full of sarcasm and negativity, it ain't gonna happen. So you can do the Dennis Leary/radical-rebel-acid-tongue impersonation all you want, but I tell you truly, what I said is how it happened. Regards to the Mrs. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 16:51:34 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: SHP Subject: Experience? Or does it suck? Message: I am teaching my kids to say they did not like something rather than 'it sucked'. The first expression is unarguable, it is the experience of the person, and the second expression is an opinion You crack me up, SHP, you really do. Now is that my experience or just my opinion? Hahahahahahaha.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 15:12:22 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: SHP Subject: I'm teaching my kid Message: SHP: Personally, I'm teaching my kid to tell the truth. I would prefer 'civil' language be used, but 'it sucks' will do if it's 'true.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 15:05:57 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Brian Subject: Nothing to defend Message: You said:This arrived in this morning's email via the Feedback form on the site. The anonymous poster [SHP] makes the usual premie assertions, with some new gibberish thrown in: Maharaji and Jesus! Think about it! Maharaji and Krishna! Think about it! Maharaji and Plastic! Recycle it! Maharaji and Marijuana! What was the question?? Dupont and Rockefeller and Hearst! What forum is this?? -Brian >Hello Brian, Your introduction of my letter was an attempt to flavor my words with your opinion before anyone else could just read it and come to their own conclusions. And you call M a controller of others? Do you have a mission to protect all the folks on your website from their own cognitive powers? Can't they think for themselves without your prompt? Are you concerned that just maybe I or someone else who is trying to communicate with your org might make some common sense and you will have to change your minds about something you thought you had nailed down? (No reference to Jesus intended). If you go back and re-read my words without pre-judgement, and respond to me with the intelligence I feel that you have to the specific things I said, maybe we can go on. I am not angry, just a little sad for you. I too ask the question that you asked above: 'What forum is this?' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 16:24:23 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: SHP Subject: oooowwww, fresh meat! Message: Dear Peabrain, Are you related to Keith? Maybe you ARE Keith. Naw, you know how to punctuate. You can't be Keith. Anyway, it's really laughable your comparison of Brian to the BM as equal ''controllers.'' Now, close your eyes and go inside...that's right, relax and ask yourself, how can I read with my eyes closed? Answer: you can't, dummy! Are you concerned that just maybe I or someone else who is trying to communicate with your org might make some common sense... Now this part's REALLY funny. Imagine, a premie with common sense! respond to me with the intelligence I feel that you have You feel his intelligence? YOU FEEL his intelligence? Well feel THIS then! oooooooya... a little lower... ahhhhhhh Yer too much, pal. What stinking arrogance, your coming here to straighten us out. And that ridiculous red herring about the DuPonts. You are full of it, aren't you? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 17:46:37 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Gerry Subject: nothing substantial per Gerry Message: Gerry: Let me guess...you just got home from work and this is your 'vent'. You said: Anyway, it's really laughable your comparison of Brian to the BM as equal ''controllers.'' >So then why did Brian introduce my letter with so much of his personal opinion plastered on it? Doesn't he respect your intelligence enough to just let it come through as is and let you come to your own conclusions? You are a bigot. You imply there is no such thing as a premie with common sense. Prejudice is prejudice, even when committed by 'free-thinkers' like you. I have replied to alot of people today and have maintained respect for each individual I dealt with. And I did not come here to straighten anybody out, that's not my job. Grow up. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 18:21:41 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: SHP Subject: I won't grow up, I won't gro Message: Dear SHeeP, Bahhhhh Humbug! Am I speaking your language yet? Your psychic powers are waning...I didn't just get home from work. I don't work. Don't like it. So big fuckin' deal, Brian gave his two cents about your crummy letter. He can do whatever he wants to do. He owns the joint. We're guests, get it? Everyone here makes up his/her own mind. You will find a lot of disagreement amongst participants here, unlike the brain dead trolls puking out their lock step lines at that other site. You are a bigot. You're a turd. Prejudice is prejudice A cult is a cult, dopes are dopes, a horse is a horse, of course, unless.. And I did not come here to straighten anybody out, that's not my job. Sure looks like it to me...so tell me, hotshot Mr.Mellow Knowledge Toe sucking Oh so fair-minded ONE, why oh why did you come here? JUST TO TORMENT ME? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Grow up. I love it when you talk that way. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:08:22 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: SHP Subject: bad, bad thinking Message: So then why did Brian introduce my letter with so much of his personal opinion plastered on it? Doesn't he respect your intelligence enough to just let it come through as is and let you come to your own conclusions? And this in defence of your comparison of Maharaji, cult leader extremis, with Brian, host and editor of a web site. Listen, fella, you have an outrageous problem with proportionality. I don't mean to alarm you but really, isn't that a sign of madness? Okay, maybe in your case just a little madness (I don't want to make the same mistake you are, believe me). But madness all the same. Your Dupont complaint is downright batty. How batty? So batty that I can't bring myself to actually walk through it. I don't wnat to get any on me, you know? It'd be like this: Maharaji's propaganda film, Who Is Guru Maharaj Ji?, won some sort of Palm d'Or special jury prize at Cannes years ago. Cannes, as we all know, symbolizes sexy, licentious actresses and starlets getting wined and dined, putting out shamelessly, etc. etc. Whether true or not, for a few days during the film festival the place is THE most worldly spot on earth. No need to attend if you're not amazingly rich, beautiful (fake will do) or famous. So, when our cult bragged about this prize (back before the film itself was banned from distribution by the hamster himslef) was that tantamount to an endorsement of Cannes and all it symoblizes? Of course not. No, friend, you just can't think straight. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 16:47:37 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: SHP Subject: In defense of the web site Message: Dear SHP - I read your letter to the site again and I have another comment - mostly about why we are doing this. You wrote: Whatever you believe or don't believe about Maharaji right now, do you believe that judging others is cool? If you are not into Maharaji or Knowledge anymore, why do you feel a mission to hurt? You feel a mission to hurt because you have been hurt, because you once believed that it was all true and now you don't. Your beliefs don't make it so for anyone else but you. Whatever you believe or don't believe about Maharaji right now, do you believe that judging others is cool? If you are not into Maharaji or Knowledge anymore, why do you feel a mission to hurt? You feel a mission to hurt because you have been hurt, because you once believed that it was all true and now you don't. Your beliefs don't make it so for anyone else but you. Circumstances can be misleading. If you really feel that Maharaji isn't cool, why aren't you looking for what will satisfy you as intensely as you revile him? I don't think the site 'judges' anyone except Maharaji. (The forum and Journeys entries are different - they are uncensored, and there are a lot of angry people who post here, as you've found out...). Also, we are not out to hurt any premies, although people may feel hurt if their beliefs are challenged. The purpose of the site and forum is to HELP people. There are a lot of ex-premies, or people who don't want to be premies any more, out there, and many of them feel like they're completely alone. Maybe they don't want to follow M anymore, but they're afraid not to. People have committed suicide over this - including some friends and relatives of people who post on this forum and work on the site. One of the reasons this site and forum were set up so that ex-premies could meet and talk to each other and form a support group to help each other get over the effects of being involved with Maharaji. I appreciate that many people (including you) have had good experiences with Maharaji and knowledge. I'm really not out to tell someone their experience isn't real or to tell them they are wrong (although there are people on this forum who WILL tell you that). I hope you can accept that there are people who have NOT had good experiences with Maharaji and knowledge, and that is why we are here. I know this site seems very negative to many people, but it has helped a lot of people, and I hope will continue to do so. I find this very satisfying, to tell the truth. I'm still seeking, but I want to help others as well, and that's why I post on the forum and work on the site. Respectfully, Katie P.S. I appreciate the work you put into the letter - communication between premies and ex-premies is fraught with difficulties, as you've probably discovered by now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 18:05:52 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Katie Subject: website needs no defense Message: Katie: I hope that everybody who checks in here has a great life and if they are messed up for one reason or another and hold M responsible, I hope it all works out and real healing happens for each heart involved. You have been the most civil person I have connected with today, and that civility needs to be present before any sense can be made out of anything between people, in this M matter or in any conversation about anything. I don't take personal offense at anything that was thrown at me today. I understand there is hurting going on; those the most hurt are the ones who tried to hurt me the most. No hard feelings. I really hope each finds real peace in their own unique way. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 18:44:54 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: SHP Subject: oh bull whappy! nt Message: wish you'd stay fun boy Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 15:41:20 (EST)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Katie Subject: In defense of the web site Message: Just to complete, there are also people who had a good experience of knowledge but a shitty one around mr sensitive. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 18:44:11 (EST)
From: srb Email: None To: Brian Subject: good grief Message: Good grief! First he says that we dont understand the master. Then he puts him in same imaginary bag as yesha/jesus, THEN he says he isn't into the great master anymore. Then he defends him. This guy is confused. And pot smoking is not helping him. If you are reading this, why dont you spend some time talking with us and give YOURSELF a chance to look at your thoughts on the issue. Might as well use the services offered here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:27:06 (EST)
From: srb Email: None To: srb Subject: my mistake Message: My mistake, I misread the one sentence. Anyway, if you would like to talk about the points you raise, sure, lets review your impression of buddha. If you read his words, you will see that he was frustrated and after much suffering trying to meditate his way into some god realization state, he decided that this was a place of suffering and the whole point of being here was to somehow stifle your natural impulses and get out of this hell in as few lifetimes as possible. Now, is this how YOU view life? If you did, that would be just a tad unappreciative for being here and having a body. There is nothing in the actual buddha story that shows he was anything more than me and you at all. He just got those around him to buy into the idea that I stated above. His follower who was the next leader of the religion, decided to say that buddha was acended to some elevated state. Really, you should read the actual history. I have more details on his life and I don't think you would end up classifying him as some great master if you look at the actual words of that guy as recorded by his own religion. His behavior to women caused untold amounts of abuse to women for many centuries and still is going on. He might very well be the worst enemy women have had on this planet ever if you consider his effects. Would you mind covering the issue on why prem rawats own mom decided that she should say the things she did? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 21:13:40 (EST)
From: srb=bill burke Email: None To: srb Subject: Remember the monastary? Message: Rather than ask you about mata rawat, I would like to ask you about your change of view that took place from your monastary days to now. You spent three years at least viewing life in a way somewhat like this...that there is a self concious larger thing that can interact with you in your life. And now you ignore that self concious thing and instead listen to a man who claims all the authority of god but he himself doesn't believe in god! This is no small point. Clearly, he has inserted himself in the way of your relationship with god. He has first claimed quite clearly that he was god, now he has brushed aside the idea from your head that there is a god and instead he has inserted the eastern misperception of life that there is no god, but there is elevated beings and the 'master' is beyond any moral constraints because all his behaviors are beyond your assesment capabilities and you are to accept his actions as somehow all perfectly right for a 'master'. Ther was no way I was going to leave my belief that prem rawat was actually not correct in all he had told me all these years. Finally, last year, I accepted him as he is, which is recommended for you too. I finally broke through because I REALLY listened to the videos a lot and the evidence finally got me to move beyond my ridgid staunch belief that was very strong. Lucky for me the forum was here also. Because it is not an easy thing to get through that without talking with others. No one is asking you to accept what is said here, just that would you give yourself a chance to review your own well entrenched views and see if any warrant a second look. I like your post, it is well thought out. You did come at a wild moment here. We are not constant, and we are all different. You are welcome to meet all and tell your side of the story. Consider it service if you want. Would you respond to the monastary question? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 17:54:38 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: srb=bill burke Subject: Remember the monastary? Message: Hey Bill, I don't have alot of time, but I want to honor your reply and question. My computer has been messing up a little, so if you don't hear from me, you will. I was in the monastery when I saw a poster of M on a phonepole. Shortly after, while still a monk, I ran into premies (circa 1973). I was actually visitng them in their little house when M was on Merv. I prayed about it, plain and simple. I asked God to reveal to me if M was the genuine article and got an affirmative answer. How prayers are answered is a most intimate thing, so I can just say that I got a 'yes' without words, inside. (I know this will probably become late-nite comedy material for your site by some, but what the hell! Whatever floats your boat!) Thing is, I began to see the monastery/Bible trip was sort of a tribute to something that happened 2000 years ago. I did not want to be in a tribute band to a Master if there was a Live Tour going on NOW. That was my prayer, like the song says: 'Oh Lord, I want to be in that number when the saints go marchin' in'. And this is what I got back..I trusted my own inner feedback, not anyone else. (Somebody's gonna have a ball what that one...) So I left the monastery under veiled threats of punishment for disobeying Jesus and actually bounced around for 4 years before receiving Knowledge. Had some things to go through first. Does this answer your question? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 20:18:46 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: SHP Subject: Hey SHP Message: Hey SHP, I for one appreciated your letter. It was interesting what you said about devotees throughout time being kind of screwed up. For me, this fact was what made me realize that I had to stop following Maharaji: It was making me too screwed up, and I didn't want to be screwed up anymore. Now, mind you, I'm still screwed up (like any human being) but a whole hell of a lot less screwed up than when I was following GM. I'm so relieved that I'm not plugged into the philosophy that life is a desert of Maya and that I have to keep trying harder and harder to meditate and to always be joyful and never have doubts, etc, etc. Seems like I could never be good enough for Maharaji--it made me nuts. When I finally gave it up, I felt so much better. Giving up the devotee identity was kind of rough-- it feels very noble to fancy oneself engaged in the battle between mind and heart, like Arjuna or Lukeskywalker or something, but after awhile I started to feel better about my new life. It was like a big old boulder off my shoulder. Started to see what I needed to do to feel good about myself and to live my life according to my own standards (which are quite high), not those of GM. I still don't think I have total control over my life--we can't control everything--but it feels good to have the reigns of my life back in my own hands again. Mental health is something I prize over God-realization: Yes, I'll admit it! So, what's your take on this? Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 18:33:46 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Helen Subject: Reply to Helen Message: Hi Helen, First let me apologize for knee-jerk responding to someone who used the word 'pussy' by using it myself. It's way out of character for me to talk like that to a gender-mixed group, especially of folks I don't even know. Really sorry about that. As far as the rest goes, all I can say is this is a very - perhaps the most - intimate experience a human being can have in life, to commence to become one with God, to become consciously self-knowing, to be connected to the divinity within...no words can contain it adequately. And the way I have approached it is that I have had to let go of all the concepts of what it would be, and just be open and trust love, which is what I was putting my faith in to get me to the place I wanted to be and who I wanted to be with. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 19:19:37 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: SHP Subject: Reply to SHP Message: Hey SHP--what does that stand for anyway? I'm coming down with a cold & have PMS and just visited the animal shelter in an attempt to adopt a dog...it's cold & rainy here...I took a few dogs out in the rain to walk them to get to know them better. There were maybe 75 dogs in cages in various states of freaked out or depressed all jumping up on the bars of their little cells as if saying 'walk me, walk me'. I just lost it and started crying, I'm such a big baby. And I'm so confused about which one to adopt, so I prayed about it (well, I didn't compose a prayer to God, it was more like 'Help me God I'm freaking out'). It was totally overwhelming and I'm going to go back tomorrow when I'm in a better state of mind. So what I'm trying to say is I haven't lost that part of me, that part inside that in 'openness, trust, & love' can say 'help me, God, I'm lost.' That spiritual part of me was always there....... if Maharaji helps you get more in touch with it, more power to you. But I also don't want to lose the sensible part of myself either the part that can say 'Hey you're having a bad day, sleep on it, and deal with this with a clear head.' I lost that perspective, that ability to care for myself when I was following Maharaji. Maharaji made me so confused which made me surrender, which made me confused,, which made me surrender, and it was like back & forth, like 80% confusion and 10% good feelings. Now the ratio is more like 30% confusion (human condition/blue days like today) and 70% clarity. (SOunds like I should be showing you a pie chart) I do agree with you that our concepts cannot answer all the questions of life, nor would I want them to. Yet concepts, frameworks, and structures are important, too. I guess I think there's plenty of room for spirituality and science, mystery and concepts in this big old amazing world we live in. The knowledge in books is as important as the knowledge you meditate on...(to me anyway) ANyway, you sound like a nice fellow (or woman), just try to remember that staying open also means being open to your mind, too, and taking care of yourself... Love, helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 03:34:03 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: SHP Subject: Reply to SHP:COncepts Message: Hey SHP, Middle of the night and I can't sleep due to this cold. I realized you must be a man since since you lived in the monastery (ok, so I'll never be a detective) It occured to me as I've been laying here not sleeping, that although Maharaji goes on & on about how we must rid ourselves of concepts, he & his trip is based on a series of concepts that people must accept in order to trust him as fact: 1) The perfect Master concept (if it's been passed down throughout generations in India, and millions have bought into it,so it MUST be fact) 2) The God realization concept (your purpose in life is to realize God, all else--including personal relationships--are below this is the conceptual hierarchy) 3) Maharaji is 'above' living simply and humbly (which is a concept about Jesus that many people revere) because he is trying to teach us something about how we should not be attached to things. Maharaji is not attached to those things, therefore it is OK that he has ridiculously lavish homes, cars, airplanes, suits, etc. He has all those things to teach us something. (Tell me what if you know) 4) All those expensive things were given out of love by his devotees, therefore it makes it OK 5) Maharaji does everything out of love & concern for his devotees--if something seems not quite loving, if something makes you pause & question, just shake your head, look up to the heavens and say 'Who knows the wild & crazy lila of the Guru. It must all be for the good or else he wouldn't do these things' 6) You have an experience of being lifted up out of all your concepts when he gives satsang. It is not his ability to master rhetoric that gives you that experience, it is not the fact that you are exhausted and have been engaged in a horrible struggle of confusion in your mind all day and your brain is tired, no, this experience is attributable to Guru Maharaji's GRACE. 7) The mind will never give you peace. THere is nothing your mind can give you that will give you peace the way your master can. So when your mind gives you doubts, when all of the conceptual scaffolding above starts to crumble, it is just a trick of the mind. Do you see how these are just concepts that have people trapped in a maze? (well, that's a loaded questions for a premie, let me re-phrase). Do the above concepts seem a little difficult to hold together? I found that when I released this conceptual framework from my mind (it took many years culminating in finding this website) my brain was freer & more imaginative than ever before. You see, it took an enormous amount of mental energy to hold concepts 1-7 all together in my brain. In fact, when I was a premie,that was a full-time preoccupation of my brain. Anyway, tell me what you think about this 'premie conceptual framework'. Love, Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 09:57:20 (EST)
From: op Email: pragonampi@aol.com To: SHP Subject: a few comments... Message: Hi SHP: I'm not an ex - I'm one of the very few (g) premie lurkers on this site, and have been around seemingly since close to the site's inception. I have a bit of feedback on your postings here and as you will notice I DID put my email address up, because I'd would like to communicate with you about a few other things, if you'd like. About your posts: you really do seem to be one of the more coherent premies to have posted here. Unfortunately, many who have braved these waters have lost it (myself included) and resorted to severe profanity, threats, or complete breakdown of rational thought (yes, dear exes, premies CAN think rationally). The one thing that was pointed out that I think you've caught drift of is your harping on and on about: 1) the Du Pont award for the LOTU show and 2) the importance of hemp in the global economy. The LOTU really was a PBS documentary aimed at defaming M - my father saw it in the 70s and it certainly destroyed any positive thoughts he had about M. I agree that the fact that it later received a Du Pont award has no bearing on its use in this forum. So it does seem rather silly for you to spend a lot of time putting down the Du Ponts. (As for their politics, etc., that's a whole other subject - off topic of course - on which I tend to agree with you, and you didn't even mention their involvement in creating atomic weapons - I have a book you might like to read, a very honest one written by an employee of Du Pont in the 80s who tells their history very candidly). And then, of course, your grandiose praise of hemp was bound to bring forward a few remarks. What I find remarkable is the variety of responses you got - from Katie's diplomacy to Gerry's seemingly drunken antagonism. Certainly no united front of angry babblers here - some real communication seems to have taken place in several of the exchanges. Would you be willing to email me? I promise no long harangues and I'm certainly not about to criticize you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 10:20:36 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: op Subject: a few comments... Message: op: I agree with you in hindsight about the focus on DuPont and hemp, but that is what hooked me to even get into this in the first place, so it served its purpose. I have since gotten into some good communication with Helen and some others. You can check those notes out in the threads. As for e-mailing with you, I hesitate due to the highly respected ability of exers to 'pose'. So if you are who you are, we can connect like this. If you are a posing exer, we can also connect like this! And I wouldn't call it 'lurking' in my case, and don't advise you you look at yourself that way either. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 11:43:21 (EST)
From: op Email: None To: SHP Subject: a few comments... Message: Hi again SHP: I just saw your 'goodbye' post above, so I hope I'm not too late. I can understand your reluctance to send email, but I come with high credentials (I've had my own share of flaming with Jim, Brian, and JW in the past - Katie can vouch for me - and you can see a couple of other posts I submitted today). I don't usually post here any more, mostly because I got tired of getting chewed up (I'm not quite as peace-exuding as you), thus the term 'lurker' applied to myself. I am in email communication with a few of the people on this site, both current and past premies. The usual reason for emailing, as you might guess, is to discuss things that would be of no interest to others on the site OR to mention things that one would prefer not be public knowledge. As for my main reasons for wanting to be in email communication with you: (at the risk of sounding like a stalker - gee!) I like you, the way you write, and what you have to say. I won't get into my own life story here, mostly because I still have to remain anonymous for various personal reasons, and also so that I don't bore the piss out of all the current residents of the page, but I think we have a few things in common that I'd like to discuss. Enough said. I just got back from a three-week trip to the other side of the world, and my body and mind are just starting to re-group, so I'll go back to my well-worn seat on my side of the fence and relax for a while. Greetings to all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 15:31:16 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: op Subject: a few comments... Message: If you send me your e-mail address on this site, I will e-mail you with mine. I don't want it to be common knowledge here. No shame or secrecy, just a desire to avoide junk mail from irate or immature folks from here. Katie vouched for ya and I believe ya now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 01:54:02 (EST)
From: op Email: pragonampi@aol.com To: SHP, and a note to others Subject: a few comments... Message: Hi SHP: I included my email address on the first post I directed to you, so I thought you'd picked it up. But here it is again, for good measure and all. NOTE ABOUT THE BASKET OF EGGS/JUG OF MILK STORY IN KATHMANDU (which is now in the inactive index) M never said he made up the story. In fact, when introducing it, he said (no, not in quotation marks here, I don't have the transcript either) that there are many versions of this story in many parts of the world. He doesn't claim authorship for stories he tells - many of them are old folkstories, others are updated versions of such stories, and then there are the jokes that various people tell or send him. In fact, he doesn't even lay claim to what he says about the self, the heart, etc. He often says (and this IS pretty close to verbatim) 'I'm not the first to say this. Many many others have said it before.' What does happen is that he often comes up with variations on stories that either personalize or update them. I've heard him give at least three versions of the story of Narad (the disciple who goes to get his master a glass of water, meets a young woman by the river, gets married, has a family, and then loses it all and gets back to the master, glass of water in hand). Make that four. And, for me, this was the first time I'd heard this particular version of the 'don't count your chickens...' story. I liked it. It was a mixture between the standard Western version, which mentions only eggs, and the usual Indian version, which has only milk. Cross-cultural, if you will - and good for the Nepalese, who are mostly Hindus but do eat eggs and meat. have fun, all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 12:02:02 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: op Subject: hi, op Message: (yes, dear exes, premies CAN think rationally). 1)You agree, though, don't you, that not a single premie has been able to maintain an extended rational discussion here about Maharaji? I'm not talking about you and Katie exchanging recipes for chutney or whatever. I'm talking about the real subject matter here. You, yourself, have evaded and ignored countless lines of inquiry when the going got tough. Or do you deny that? Isn't it fair to say that while it may be true that premies CAN think rationally, they WON'T when it comes to Maharaji? 2) What do you think of the censorship on ELK? (I'm not asking for your opinion about those of us who tricked them. That's a different question.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 12:07:39 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: op Subject: hi, op-nt Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 12:49:56 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: op Subject: LOTU, to op :) Message: The LOTU really was a PBS documentary aimed at defaming M - my father saw it in the 70s and it certainly destroyed any positive thoughts he had about M. Hi, op. I hope you will take this post in the spirit it was intended. I am not criticizing you, I just disagree with what you said about the film. I just viewed the tape two days ago (again) and I got a totally different impression than you did about it. I don't think it was aimed at defaming M intentionally. Did the filmakers have that intention going into making the film, because I thought it was a fairly objective, informative documentary. The film showed people saying positive things about Maharaji (remember the woman in the garden club who had everything, yet realized she didn't have anything until she found M? How about the premie bragging about how quickly everyone got the Millineum event pulled together? Or the kids who said that M got them off of drugs?) as well as showing some negatives, too. (Abby Hoffman's opinions, ex-premies, and some bongo premies arguing with Christians) I believe that the tape was an accurate portrayal of what was happening in DLM at the time. It is certainly the way I remember it. If they wanted to make it exclusively anti-M, there was a whole lot more they could have done to do so. I think they tried to let the viewers make up their own minds. Apparently, based on the facts, your Dad made up his. They certainly didn't HIDE anything that went on in DLM. They let the events speak for themselves. Take Care, op VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 13:40:23 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: VP and op Subject: LOTU, to op :) Message: Hi again op, I agree with VP. I have sent that video around to a lot of exes and several of them commented that they thought it was a Shri Hans production video when they started watching it, and that there wasn't ENOUGH negative stuff about Maharaji (you know how negative all us exes are :) ). Some people said that it made them nostalgic for the old days of DLM. As I said above, I think it was relatively fair. Well, you will get to see it for yourself (I hope), and maybe you'll want to comment on it on the forum. Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 10:09:00 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Helen Subject: Reply to Helen Message: You said: Middle of the night and I can't sleep due to this cold. I realized you must be a man since since you lived in the monastery (ok, so I'll never be a detective) >Yes I am a man and I hope you are feeling better. In my monestary there were also women, however. 1) The perfect Master concept (if it's been passed down throughout generations in India, and millions have bought into it,so it MUST be fact) >I don't experience the PM concept the same way you do. I 'grokked' (remembr 'Stranger in a Strange Land' - the book?} the connection between M, Jesus, Krishna, etc - all past progenitors of the world's great religions - and realized that first would come a Master who revealed the Knowledge, then after he would leave, repeatedly the power fell into the hands of those who wanted to control the masses and make a living from it, so the message and information got bent out of shape, complete with a hell for non-believers. Thus you have the Roman Catholic Church and all the rest of them. 2) The God realization concept (your purpose in life is to realize God, all else--including personal relationships--are below this is the conceptual hierarchy) >I remember M saying once that the greatest thing he gave us was each other (premies). That was long ago, but I still think it's true...like an old poem goes: I looked for my God and God I could not see/I looked for my soul and it was nowhere to be/I looked for my brother-sister and I found all three. For me, I cannot realize God and conduct screwed-up human relationships at the same time. To me, that is a gross contradiction. I do know that my views are not shared by all who have Knowledge. Jesus said: Seek the kingdom of heaven first and all else will be added to you. I subscribe to that. That is not to say that my connection to another carbon unit with God inside is less important, just that when one event happens first (practice of K) things seem to flow smoother, problems and all - or my perspective becomes such that the mountains become speed bumps, etc. 3) Maharaji is 'above' living simply and humbly (which is a concept about Jesus that many people revere) because he is trying to teach us something about how we should not be attached to things. Maharaji is not attached to those things, therefore it is OK that he has ridiculously lavish homes, cars, airplanes, suits, etc. He has all those things to teach us something. (Tell me what if you know) >The concept of a poor raggedy Jesus is false. I used to think that way too, until I studied and learned from historical references that Jesus was no slouch materially. He was a damned good carpenter and had saved up for his tour. Peter and his brothers who became the first disciples were not just fishermen, but they owned fishing boats, had employess and were upper-working class. The seamless robe he wore which was made for him by a premie lady had the quality of an Armani. Some premie poured expensive oil all over his feet and one of his instructors criticized it because it could have been sold to feed the pour, it is said - and J defended the giver of the gift. Jesus allegedly said something like 'You will always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me with you.' The donkey he rode on was equvalent to a Rolls today - a pack animal was a great luxury in that time among the population, and the one he rode was probably the best one in the area. Many of his premies - Mary and Martha had big homes, Joseph of Arimathea donated the tomb, which was a really big deal back then and cost $$$ - had scratch and made it available to Jesus for his tour. 1st century Christianity does advise believers to give it all up and live together in a communal style, kibbutz type existence, which I have tried and is great. (pre-M/K) But how one lives on the outside is an option, and I have learned not to be fooled by appearances - the rich are not all bad and the poor are not all good. This whole thing for me is about the inner experience. Many of the ways I conduct myself with others via the Golden Rule (treat others the way you want to be treated) are newsflashes to many people today, premies included. This baffles me, but I don't hold M responsible. As for M's stuff, it's not an issue for me. King Solomon had lots of stuff too, but that did not diminish his wisdom. I feel like many of us went looking for a missing person namely the Master of this Age with the wrong milk carton photo based on our concepts of what a master should be. When Jesus came they were looking for a king and got a carpenter - nowadays folks are looking for a carpenter and getting a king. 4) All those expensive things were given out of love by his devotees, therefore it makes it OK >Yes, as far as I am concerned. 5) Maharaji does everything out of love & concern for his devotees--if something seems not quite loving, if something makes you pause & question, just shake your head, look up to the heavens and say 'Who knows the wild & crazy lila of the Guru. It must all be for the good or else he wouldn't do these things' >I am a student, learning the lesson of Knowledge by practicing it. I used to do in my head what you described in #5, but now I look at it like this. Certain things I seem to abe able to control, certain things happen beyond my control, and my being conscious makes a big difference in alot of it. I don't blame or praise or judge M. I still believe there is an almighty Creator and I still beleive shit happens. It's how I deal with it that counts. 6) You have an experience of being lifted up out of all your concepts when he gives satsang. It is not his ability to master rhetoric that gives you that experience, it is not the fact that you are exhausted and have been engaged in a horrible struggle of confusion in your mind all day and your brain is tired, no, this experience is attributable to Guru Maharaji's GRACE. >I believe that when all the masters did their gigs down through history to bring K to people, there were other beings on the planet who had attained the same experience and consciousness. But one individual had the job of being the front, the face, for that age. The rest of them served behind the scenes, making sure that all the props were in place - the upper room reservations, the white donkey, the tomb, the tomb evacuation crew, etc. So now it's Prem Rawat whose job it is to spread K on a global scale. He's just a premie following the directions his Master gave him. He has made the techniques attainable by anyone alive - no more sitting in a cave for 20 years - and easy to do - and he gets flak for that too. Too hard, no good, too easy no good. Go figure. 7) The mind will never give you peace. THere is nothing your mind can give you that will give you peace the way your master can. So when your mind gives you doubts, when all of the conceptual scaffolding above starts to crumble, it is just a trick of the mind. >I don't mind....or I try not to at least. Let's take out the word 'mind' for a minute and substitute the word fear. Fear of having made the wrong choice of teachers, seeing your teacher do and say things that your fears get excited by because of preconceptions of what a master is and how he/she should behave, based on a lifetime of gathered concepts from many different sources. There are concepts of friendship, of marriage, of parenthood, of all the human relationships, that sit in plexiglass containers in our brains, the idealized models. Right in there sits the Master concept. This whole plexiglass construction is theoretical, partial, flawed and needs to be broken in order to experience the real thing, be it marriage, friendship, parenthood, and yes, even the Master. This is not meant to be a teaching - this is my experience. The only thing I want to hold in my brain is the flesh, blood and nerves that comprise it, my motor skills, memory, and all the biological functions firing within it. I have moved my offices to my heart. The word mind has become to the premie world what the word 'satan' is for the religions. It's not really scary, it's just the illusion, Maya, ya know? That which can be measured, that is what we are advised to beware of, so that we can differentiate between the limited bullshit and the unlimited experience that we all seek. So when something goes down that makes people go 'hey, look at that - that's not on the program!', I just toss the program and pay alot of attention to the here-now vibe, which can never lie, and go on that. There are no maps or printed programs of how this is going to exactly turn out, so we have to trust our own internal receivers. Take care. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 12:12:36 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: SHP Subject: Reply to Helen Message: Dear SHP, ENjoyed reading your post very much. It does sound like you are a student who is actually processing and synthesizing , learning, and growing. I do agree that throughout life our 'plexiglass constructions' are broken down, and reformatted again and again--that is called growth. But I am worried when people move their 'offices to the heart' and don't put the brain first in line when making decisions, even if those decisions include intuitive vibes and instincts. To me, the ability to think clearly is something I prize over everything else because thought precedes action. I want to have thought things through very clearly before I take a stand on issues like religion, morality, parenting, etc...of course we always reevaluate and refine our ideas, but that doesn't make thought any less important in my book. Intuitive vibes and instincts are good too, but so often they can overwhelm us if we just go on them. FOr example, I might have adopted 10 dogs last night at the animal shelter if I had let my 'heart rule' vs. making an informed, responsible decision. As per the poverty issue: I am not advocating poverty as inherently spiritual or 'higher than' other lifestyles. It's just that the WAY Maharaji makes his living is, to me, despicable & completely unethical. Following this forum I have come to hear the words of people who have worked closely w/ Maharaji's scheduling,etc. and they confirm that his itinerary is MONEY-driven. That is the part that turns my stomach...that you & others (and I myself at one time) give your love, & sincere spiritual desire to a guy who just wants your money. You probably see it differently since clearly you are (in my opinion) managing to grow spiritually in spite of Maharaji. I just really really beseech you to let your brain and mind have equal say in your 'offices' because thought can bring about very spiritual & positive fruits as well. Love, Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 02:26:56 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Helen Subject: Reply to Helen Message: Helen: There is an old Native American tradition of digging a little hole in the ground, then kneeling down and whispering one's questions and prayers into it, being your Mother, Earth. And somehow you get the answer inside yourself. Before receiving K, I asked for proofs like this and in many other ways to confirm my heart's response. (Hoo boy am I leaving myself wide open for jokes on THIS post! That's OK though, humor is necessary for sanity, and I won't even charge your org for my services, just call it 'laughs compliments of the grace of God and SHP') So who is to say that if you HAD gotten all those pups your heart wanted you to get, that your life wouldn't turn out totally incredible? You never know what is around a corner until you turn it. Certain decsions in my life had to be made on heart primarily: marriage, having kids, moving to a particluar place, choosing to follow M. My life isn't a profit/loss sheet, it's my life. I MUST be happy with or without $$$, that I knew way before meeting up with M. How much thinking goes into choosing a partner for life as opposed what one feels for a person? Love makes people crazy in the eyes of this world, but then again it's the catch-22 that if you look crazy to this world, you are probably on the right track in the eyes of the Infinite, because this world is nutz! So much for now...gotta go. See ya 'round, 'Dances-with-dogs' Signed, 'Talks to dirt' PS I remember a satang that Charananand gave about Shri Maharaji telling a devotee to go and pray for what he needed. Each time he came back and Shri M asked him what he prayed for, and the premie would spew a bunch of cliches about how beautiful the lotus feet were, etc. Finally, an exasperated Shri M told th epremie to go and pray for CASH. So what is wrong with that? Money is not the root of all evil....it's the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil. We need the stuff in this world, especially if we are going around the world spreading Knowledge. I was in Rome in 1977 when M predicted how shitty the airlines would be getting and how he was going to have to learn how to fly his own plane to get around at his own pace to spread K, which is very hectic. What he said happened. For a man with an 8th grade education to qualify with flying colors to fly one of the most sophisticated jets on earth takes balls and dedication. If he were the kind of guy some folks on your site paint him to be, he'd never have gone to the trouble, but rather he'd be back in the cabin doing other things. Just some stream of consciousness rememberences... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 04:00:47 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: SHP Subject: Thanks Message: Thanks for the laughs, SHP. This little gem is priceless: I was in Rome in 1977 when M predicted how shitty the airlines would be getting and how he was going to have to learn how to fly his own plane to get around at his own pace to spread K, which is very hectic. What he said happened. Wow! You mean he actually predicted even then that he'd want to get his very own big toy and big toy licence to go with it? What a prophet! For a man with an 8th grade education to qualify with flying colors to fly one of the most sophisticated jets on earth takes balls and dedication. If he were the kind of guy some folks on your site paint him to be, he'd never have gone to the trouble, but rather he'd be back in the cabin doing other things. You are the most simplistic, two-dimensional adult I've come across in a long time. Maybe, goofus, the guy just wanted to fly the planes. Y'ever think about that? Well, that WAS fun. Tell me, no, don't bother telling me anything in particular. Just say whatever you want. I love it. Thanks again. You're number one fan, Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 10:45:05 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Jim Subject: Thanks Message: Jim: You said: Wow! You mean he actually predicted even then that he'd want to get his very own big toy and big toy licence to go with it? What a prophet! >Toy? You call a Gulstream 55 or whatever it is, a toy? And the work, responsibility and level of conpetence it takes to learn how to fly one you call a toy license? >And you call me simplistic? You are the most simplistic, two-dimensional adult I've come across in a long time. Maybe, goofus, the guy just wanted to fly the planes. Y'ever think about that? >I know alot of people who just want to do things. But there is a big difference between 'wanting' and 'doing'. Reminds me of a little story: A pig and a chicken were walking down the street. After each diner they passed, the chicken got increasingly irate. Finally, the pig asked him what the problem was. 'You always get top billing in all the diners - 'bacon & eggs'- never 'eggs & bacon'!' bitched and moaned the chicken. 'That's easy', yawned the pig. 'The reason I get top billing is that you are just making an investment...I am making a committment.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 10:33:49 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: SHP Subject: Reply to SHP Message: Dear Talks to Dirt, I enjoy your threads a lot, Talks-to Dirt. I like the stream of consciousness style. You know I have to say that I would not have the great husband I have if I had just followed my heart--man, this time I used my brain and my heart and I found me a good one. And having kids--in my opinion, there is no reason to have a child unless you are ready psychologically, physically, spiritually, emotionally, financially. people have no business following their 'emotions' into a pregnancy. That's why we have 'babies having babies' and that is a tragedy. Also if I had adopted 10 dogs, in my little townhouse Id have to quit my job to care for them. I do not think that would have enhanced my life. So I've decided to wait til after the holi-daze and try again--because having a dog is like having a baby and I want to be 100% ready to give it the attention it deserves. But, hey, if following your heart works for you, you go guy! SOunds like you have some brain in your heart and heart in your brain so maybe the choices you make are colored by both. You sure sound like one happy guy. My best friend is a shamanic healer--those practices have value, of course they do. Mother earth has always been there for us. WOrshipping the earth to me is different fm worshipping GM--the earth deserves to be worshipped, and should, in my opinion be worshipped (or revered, protected, loved, however you want to put it). Perhaps this has kept you grounded, dude. But I still say one should use one's REASON when making decisions. Take care, Dances-with-dogs Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 11:19:59 (EST)
From: Talks to dirt Email: None To: Dances with dogs Subject: Oneness talking to itself Message: On this beautiful Sunday morning, it comes to me that God is all there and He/She is having this incredicble conversation with Him/Herself. To paraphrase an old favorite band: 'when we awake we will remember everything...' What I meant about going for all the dogs if your heart led you to, which would change your whole life around, granted - reminds me of the words of Gilbran which go something like: 'And seek not to guide the course of Love, for Love if it finds you worthy, will guide your course.' You resonate pretty solid in yourself from here too. G'day! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 21, 1998 at 16:45:31 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: SHP Subject: Reply to Helen Message: Please cite your sources for your answer to #3. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 02:09:25 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Reply to Mickey Message: You want 'moi' to cite sources to #3, your honor? And you didn't even say please. You bust my chops on the other threads And on this one you check my crossed t's? Yes, you ARE Mickey the Pharisee It came from your lips and not mine Now you want me to tell you my sources As if when I did, you'd say 'Fine'. I know what I know from my movie That I took the time to produce It's everything good that I've gathered And now I am letting it loose. If something I said struck a chord, Mick Then honor your feelings inside And roll up your sleeves, do your homework Find out what historians hide. There's only one way you'll believe me And that is if you do the work And find out what I took the time to Instead of just calling me a jerk. **** I too stood on streetcorners and satsanged To anyone who would pass by My face shined with light as I told them The Lord was on earth, that's no lie. Yes, things have changed lots and I feel it Just like you all, from what I have read The difference between us I reckon I accept all the changes instead. The boy is a man now, you noticed? You too, Mick are not quite the same As the day that the Master came forward And revealed to us all Holy Name. Everything changes around us The scenery, props and the set But one thing remains constant, notice... And that is the love there is yet. Our concepts of how life's unfolding Need constant revison until We realize our concepts are useless And watch like a cat on a sill The idea of being a student Is that there is something unknown If one is in uncharted waters Humility makes mysteries shown So go on and cite your own sources I need not cast pearls before swine I don't means yourself as a person But that thing premies know as the mind Sometimes I get a bit poetic Late at night when I feel all inspried But now I wish you a goodnight, Mick Your struggle is making me tired. I really do care to connect, though Just sometimes I gotta chill out And look at you across the big canyon Somewhere you picked up some big doubt Maybe I'd feel the same you do If the same exact thing happened here That happened to you to detest him But nothing like that has come near So I'll catch ya at some later time, Mick Until then I just want to say That love is the strongest force out there I'll hold that til my dying day. And whether or not you believe me And whether or not you do not I wish you true peace Mick my brother However you take it, thanks alot Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 11:09:03 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: SHP Subject: Reply to Mickey Message: Dear Talks-to-Dirt, Nice poem, dude, (really) but all Mickey asked for was your sources for your assertion that in his time Jesus was considered affluent. This is what I mean about reason. If you can't provide evidence (just a book title or reference for crying out loud) it makes your argument sound weak. I fear that as a premie you are never required to substantiate or back-up your premises...you just go on feelings. This is what frightens me, dude. If you are going to state these 'facts' about Jesus as part of your argument for Guru Maharaji's intrinsic worth than why not enage in a discussion with a guy who is studying early church history, for crying out loud. It might make your argument for GM stronger. Then again, it might make you doubt some of the concepts that you've built up around him. Why are premies so afraid to engage in intellectual debate? To me, this is one of the funnest, most rewarding things life has to offer. I'm not a brilliant person at all, but I love to learn. I mean, what can be more rewarding than talking to folks who are experts in their fields and trying to learn from them? And the reward of becoming an expert in something yourself is a great 'feeling'. You know, I think it's arrogant to think that you can know everything through your intuition/meditation. Sure, you can get a lot that way, I'm not putting that down, but there is such a thing as realizing that there are other people out there who have knowledge you don't have, and that you can learn something from them. Love, Dances-with-dogs Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 11:29:28 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Helen & Mickey Subject: here's a source Message: Check out the historian Josephus who lived around the same time for starters. I did all this learning along time ago, over 20 years, and since having Knowledge have not have the need for the references. I will look around. Dances, you talk to me like a 'mensch' and I talk to you like one. Mickey and others come on heavy and I don't respond as graciously to that attitude. I do not water down my passion with canned yak, but I do subscribe to kindness to all as consistently as possible. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 11:59:27 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: SHP Subject: mensches in the trenches Message: Talks-to-Dirt-- Well, this mensch is just as much ready to fight this war against Maharaji as anyone else here on the forum. I may have a less aggressive style than some folk, but I am just as vehement. It's not YOU we are fighting, Talks-to-Dirt, it's Guru Maharaji and his ilk here on this planet--any human being who asks others to surrender to him or her. SOme of Maharaji's teachings are fine--I have no probelem with some of the stuff he says. It's not that--it's that he puts himself up on a throne as a MASTER with all the power all the answers all the knowledge and says SURRENDER to me.. and his lifestyle & actions do not demonstrate at ALL that he is what he says he is. That's all the evidence I need. Regarding your assertion that we are all wounded, my personal experience is that I was a wounded bird in my youth and that is why Maharaji was attractive to me in the first place. But he didn't heal my wounds, he just made them worse because of my dependence on him. My wounds healed because I fought my way out of his trap, and I started to think again. It was hard hard work to heal myself of all the shit I went through as a child. But I am responsible for my life now and can't blame anyone else for my BEHAVIOR, even GM. But I also can't just turn away from my MORAL OBLIGATION to speak up about the DANGERS of cults. Just because a person is healed (or sufficiently healed to live a productive life) doesn't mean they then go skipping off into the forest to pick flowers, turning a blind eye to the injustice in the world. NO! Man, I thank God everyday that I am not following GM anymore. I think he is scary and creepy and unethical and BAD. I thank God everyday that I don't have to fear that I'm going to come back in my next lifetime as a lizard, or that I'm not surrendered enough or that I'm too intellectual or compicated or whatever crazy ideas got put in my head But YOU are not bad.( Well, you are bad if you have doubts yourself and are not listening to your conscience, or if you are doing unethical things). You have to distinguish between your Master (who most of us here don't like) and yourself. Please don't merge, SHP, please don't merge, please don't merge...... Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 23:02:40 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: SHP Subject: here's a source Message: Brother SHP, In my area of study, I am not allowed to simply go on feelings, and so I expect anyone making certain claims about an area of study in which I am working to cite sources, just as I must cite any sources I use to make my claims. My area of study is patristics, the first three centuries of the church, and I am very particular about the claims people make regarding this era, especially premies, as they usually have not done any study in the area, they just quote something they heard from some dubious source. This is why premies can claim that 'Jesus taught this Knowledge' whether they know anything about Jesus' teachings or not. Regarding Josephus and Jesus, the only reference he makes about Jesus is in 'The Antiquities of the Jews' 18:63-64. Many scholars believe that Christian scribes later interpolated certain lines to make it seems as if Josephus was pro-Christian. A tenth century Arabic version of the text is missing the interpolations. It says nothing about Jesus's wealth or poverty. The text reads as follows (possible interpolations are in caps): 'Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man IF IT BE LAWFUL TO CALL HIM A MAN, for he was a doer of wonders, A TEACHER OF SUCH MEN AS RECEIVE THE TRUTH WITH PLEASURE. He drew many after him BOTH OF THE JEWS AND THE GENTILES. HE WAS THE CHRIST. When Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, FOR HE APPEARED TO THEM ALIVE AGAIN THE THIRD DAY, AS THE DIVINE PROPHETS HAD FORETOLD THESE AND THEM THOUSAND OTHER WONDERFUL THINGS ABOUT HIM, and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day.' Antiquities 18:63-64. You are right, I can't accept what you have learned from 'your movie.' There is nothing wrong with study and actually using your brain. Scholarship and study is fun and well worth one's time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 23:05:48 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Brother SHP Subject: P.S. Message: I apologise for taking so long to respond to your source, but Sunday is a very busy day for me. Also, you have not yet answered my question regarding the order to which you belonged; what order was it? Politely awaiting your answer, Faddah Mickey Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 00:48:57 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: P.S. Message: Let me pose you this: You are a Talmudic scholar in Jerusalem about 2000 years ago. You spend your days pouring over the Torah and the associated writings. Many Old Testament scriptural references point to the imminent coming of a Messiah. Meanwhile, outside of your window there are dozens if not hundreds of zealots and magicians running around the countryside, all claiming to be the One. Some of them are comng on politically to advocate the overthrow of Roman domnation, some are doing tricks like Sai Baba, making objects appear in their hands, some are healing the sick, some are on a pure power trip, etc. Among all this confusion, (not entirely unlike today's world) Joshua ben Joseph, a carpenter, drops his tools at the age of 30 and spends the last three years of his life quietly doing his ministry, culminating in his reported death and reappearance to some of his followers. His approach blows the minds of most of the scholars, who have preconceived notions of how it oughta be...you feel something inside of you, but you look at your peers and experience incredible peer pressure. Mickey, can you close your eyes and put yourself there in your plain stone cell somewhere above midtown Jerusalem, with your scrolls unrolled all over your desk? Can you look out your window and observe all the activity and all the Messiah wanna-be's on every street corner? Can you honestly tell me that you would have recognized HIM from all the rest, dropped what you were doing, and followed him? And if so, how? He didn't have a gold dish on his head and there were no YMCA's to check out the lobby portrait. Easier said than done, and hindsight's 20/20. Yep, it takes big faith to step out on this one, my brother. I mentioned this earlier to someone: 2000 years ago they were expecting a king and got a carpenter. Now they are expecting that carpenter and they are getting a king. Somewhere in the Bible it says: 'I will take the foolish things of this world to confound the wise and prudent.' (should have told Brian this...he called me a fool on another thread) I just prayed real hard for many years to be in on it if God was doing something special in real time on earth in my lifetime. Ever since was little, I just had a feeling about this generation we are in, that something amazing was going to happen while I was alive. I ran across many teachers along the way, but when I received Knowledge my search ended, not by a mental decision, but because I was satisfied with what practicing Knowledge provided. My life is by no means 'perfect' on the outside...you know that's not what this is about. But inside Mickey, life is so good. And I have an undisclosed amount of time alloted to me to realize that perfection within and to manifest it on earth as it is in heaven. (heaven = truth from the Greek). Not a cloud with angels and harps....right here. As for the name of the order I was in, I would rather not say. Let's just say that I left shortly after the Abbot mentioned how he'd like to do something to serve the Pope someday! I got a real bad vibve from that. Up until that moment, I was under the distinct impression that the order was esoteric and was teaching the 'Christian mysteries', independent of any denominations. At about the same time, I had run across some premies and was having a most beautiful experience with them and hearing about Maharaji. So I prayed, got my answer, left the order and received Knowledge sometime after. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 01:41:39 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: SHP Subject: P.S. Message: You seem to forget that you are in conversation with ex-premies; people who received Knowledge just as you did. I was initiated in October of 1974 and practiced faithfully, yet found Knowledge to be wanting. It did not satisfy me spiritually, it was not beautiful, it was nothing more than another relaxation technique. My 'perfect master' had no idea who I was, and still does not. Everything I was told about his spiritual power and his authority was a lie. My life was going nowhere; I was working low-paying jobs which I could leave at a moment's notice so that I could drop everything to attend another festival. I became stuck, mentally and spiritually. When I left DLM, M, and Knowledge, my life improved 100%. Now I have a beautiful family, I am allowed to use my mind and study, and I am fulfilled in my profession. You may want to say, like many premies who visit here do, that I didn't practice hard enough, that I lacked sincerity, that I was not devoted enough to M, but you would be wrong. I was sincere, but there was nothing there for me. Go ahead and practice if you want, I wish you happiness and peace in all you do, but please realise that many ex-premies are just as sincere and in love with the truth as you (I would say the exes are more in love with the truth) and are here at this site to further explore the truth. Don't come here and make statements about Jesus and other subjects and not expect to be challenged on your claims. Learn to cite sources and defend your ideas with hard information; you'll find that it is quite enjoyable and will help you grow as a human being. We are not going to agree; I want to discuss the actual historical record and you want to discuss what you feel about your own idea of what happened. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 02:02:21 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: P.S. Message: C'mon Mickey, I wrote that beautiful scenario with the Jerusalem setting and all that and you didn't even address it. Please do. And yes, I do love to use my mental faculties in case you haven't noticed already. So in my future transmissions, I will try to be as factual and have as much back-up information as possible. I am happy for you that you have a nice life scene going. My job scene still sucks, but I have a great wife (met her on my hands and knees picking those little gold glitters off a white carpet with her that Maharaji had just finished dancing on at a Miami program in 1981). As far as my judging your efforts to realize Knowledge, that ain't me, man. I don't do windows and I don't judge. Your experience is yours and mine is mine. What I love to do is hear others' experiences and share mine and learn that way, not tell you what's wrong with you or vice-versa. That's what a forum is supposed to be, isn't it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 12:28:05 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: SHP Subject: P.S. Message: You want a twentieth-century North American male to explain how he would react to a situation in first-century Palestine? My social, cultural, political, and historical context is completely different than that of the Talmud scholar you dreamed up. I already tried to follow the one who claimed to be the Messiah this time around and found him wanting. I took that step of faith and was decieved and led astray. Perhaps you should venture over to the 'journeys' area of the site and read a few stories; perhaps you will then understand this site and forum in context. Love in Christ, Padre Michael Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 12:55:27 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: P.S. Message: Buenas Dias Padre Miguel, I just asked you to use your imagination and your accumulated knowledge and understanding. I didn't ask you to time travel, I just wanted you to imagine being around when Jesus actually walked the earth and how you might have recognized him among all the imposters of the day. I think you caught my drift, but OK, no problem. I have visited the Journeys area, and even found and old friend's story there who I haven't seen or heard from in a long time . I may even communicate with him, not to 'get him back into the fold' or anything like that, but just to connect. I wonder what made you feel deceived and led astray and why you found him wanting. If your story is posted somewhere, please direct me to it, or if you have the time, please summarize your story. We have communicated on this site amiably though we disagree... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 07:45:57 (EST)
From: another ex-premie Email: None To: Everyone Subject: mj endorsement???? Message: Hello everyone- I've never posted here before but I just had to comment on the latest Visions catalog 'A Special Collection'. Have you all received your copies? It looks like mj has fully endorsed the enjoyinglife website based on the letter to our customers on the inside front cover. Be sure to order---that free t-shirt promoting the website is a must-have for all!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 08:53:49 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: another ex-premie Subject: mj endorsement???? Message: Could you post a copy of the letter? I'd love to see this myself. If EV is going to begin marketing ELK crap to further line Maharaji's pockets, then that places that site in a different catagory as far as I'm concerned. Internic would also be interested in the .org part of the domain name, rather than the .com that it would now deserve. Could there REALLY be buried treasure on Premie Island??? Dig, Maharaji, dig!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:48:57 (EST)
From: another ex-premie Email: None To: Brian Subject: mj endorsement???? Message: Here's the little gem: A letter to our customers As the holiday season is approaching, we are very happy to present this special collection of videotapes, audiocassettes, music, publications and gift items. There's a new discovery we'd like to share with you, a new website on the internet: 'www.enjoyinglife.org', intended for those who appreciate the teachings of Maharaji. This site was started by four individuals from England, and we are so excited about it that we wanted to tell our customers. In fact, we decided to offer a t-shirt promoting the site. With each order, you will receive a free t-shirt with an artistic rendition from the homepage of the site. It is our special gift to you; simply state the preferred size on our order form (M, L, XL). We hope you enjoy discovering the site as much as we have. Those of us at Visions International wish you the best during this holiday season. Isn't it funny that they want to share this 'new discovery'? The Big Deceiver may not have signed this personally, but there's no doubt that he has okayed setting up the website, is there? Does that mean I can start up a website, Visions will share the discovery, and offer a t-shirt to promote it for me? I wonder how long it will take for me to get rich? What a great way to make a living!!! Buncha losers!!! I guess mj must feel the need to have a site singing his praises---too bad freedom of speech is a foreign concept over there. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 12:59:15 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: another ex-premie Subject: TO AP and Brian Message: First, thanks for posting this. I had heard about it in another post but this is just too much. Brian, I think this should be added to the 'enjoyinglife' section of the website to include Nigel's expose, as well as his 'editing guidelines.' This Visions stuff is important, because it demonstrates that BM himself is behind that joke of a website. Here is a better rendition of the Visions mailing: As the holiday season is approaching, we are very happy to present this special, very lucrative/immensely profitable, overpriced, grossly material, collection of videotapes, audiocassettes, 'music', publications and 'gift items.' We know some of you have been reading that horrible 'ex-premie.org' website, (we sure have) filled with comments from bitter, vindictive, confused ex-premies spreading lies about Maharaji and knowledge. So, to distract attention from that, we got some premies in England to start a new website, that is so thoroughly controlled and censored, that only 'positive' things about Maharaji and knowledge will appear there. It it entitled as a website 'for those who appreciate the teachings of Maharaji.' [Now, before you stop laughing, realize that we MUST say Maharaji actually HAS teachings that make any sense, aren't completely contradictory, and haven't changed drastically over the years. Otherwise, what is the point of a 'master?' Who would you be grateful to?] But we know what you REALLY appreciate is the unthinking, unanalyzed, blind acceptance of whatever drivel Maharaji expells, as well as the parrotting of same by obliging premies that goes on there. And boy, we are SO excited about this website, that just appeared out of nowhere, even though we were in on it from the beginning, that 'we' just spontaneously decided, because we got so excited, to offer a t-shirt with an artistic rendition from the homepage of the site. It is our special gift to you. It's the least we can do, considering the huge profits we make on videos that cost $20 for as little as 4 minutes. We hope you enjoy 'discovering' the site as much as we have, and don't pay any attention to those accusations that censorship goes on there. Lies, all lies being spread by our enemies! And someday, somehow, perhaps within our lifetimes even, the website operators will figure out a way to give the appearance that free and open 'conversations' can go on there, while at the same time, censoring the hell out of all comments, and preventing anyone with even the teensiest criticism of the master from participating. Those of us on the payroll of Visions International, mainly the master and his two daughters, wish you all the best during the holday season.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 14:19:29 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: TO JW Message: Hey JW: I think we should co-author a fine piece of software for these folks. It'll be a filter for incomming text for their conversations page. Let's see.... we can call the filter, 'Goebels-ware' or 'Closed-Doors' (as opposed to Open-Windows) and what it will do is look for key phrases/words and change them prior to their entry into the page. For example: Anytime 'god' or 'lord' is input, the filter will spew 'meditation teacher.' 'Devotion' will change to 'appreciation,' 'I gave my all' will translate to 'it took a little effort', etc etc. Whadaya think? I'd call it a winner from the start. I think we should have our systems analysts contact EL to see how to spec this thing out..... he he he ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 14:48:33 (EST)
From: another ex-premie Email: None To: JW Subject: Who was that masked man??? Message: And boy, we are SO excited about this website, that just appeared out of nowhere, even though we were in on it from the beginning, that 'we' just spontaneously decided, because we got so excited, to offer a t-shirt with an artistic rendition from the homepage of the site. Clearly JW, you have been reading between the lines. This revision of yours that I pasted above is exactly what I thought when I first saw that letter. I almost commented on it myself, but thought my suspicious nature was getting the best of me. It absolutely amazes me that there is nothing about mj and the multitude of organizations surrounding him that is on the level--except the free labor from hard-working premies who think this guy has something special to offer them. I'm disgusted that I was taken in by this little bastard, drifted away, and then came back and tried to reconnect because I thought that I had made a mistake going away in the first place. Yipes!! Thank goodness I decided to check the internet first to see what I could find out. A lot of people on this forum have been seriously hurt--that comes through quite clearly in their posts. In light of that, I consider myself fortunate-because I stayed on the fringes, I haven't suffered like some of the people here and I'm very thankful for that. My disappointment with mj's broken promises pales when I read here and see what he has done to people who sincerely thought they had found God in the human form and were willing to do anything for Him. And yes, I agree that is what he was presenting himself as during the DLM/70's years---why else would so many have bothered listening to the creep? He rarely made sense and talked in circles all the time!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 19:41:36 (EST)
From: Nigel Email: ksfshd To: JW Subject: TO AP and Brian Message: Spot on, Joe. 'With the holiday season approaching...' is just so terminally naff, the whole house of cards could collapse with this one small puff of wind. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 02:29:53 (EST)
From: Bruce Email: freedom@universal.net.au To: Everyone Subject: EX-PREMIE FRAUDS EXPOSED Message: To Nigel, Jim, JW and TD, Thanks for showing the world your real natures. By posting fraudulent posts on the Net, you have proven to the world that you are DECEITFUL, LYING, CONSPIRING, FRAUDS Not to mention incredibly stupid. Who masterminded this debacle? Guru Jim I suppose. So, a Maharaji friendly website editored material which was deliberately written by yourselves knowing full well that it would not be acceptable. Big deal! Should a symphony orchestra allow an idiot with a cowhorn to play along, even if he means well? Your deceit has backfired. You lose Jim. Maybe one or two or your unquestioning devotees will start to wonder about YOU over this. And which one of you is Golden Oldie? YOUR STUPIDITY HAS MADE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR HONEST COMMUNICATION ON THE NET. Think about it, you brainless self appointed defenders of truth and honesty. What a bunch of hypocrites you are.! Bruce and please spare me the crap about my not enjoying life when I say this. I've head it all before and I am enjoying telling you off. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 02:52:48 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bruce Subject: EX-PREMIE FRAUDS EXPOSED Message: Bruce, You miss the point, you imbecile. The fact is, we don't censor here. We've got nothing to hide. Your cult, on the other hand, is built on fakery. Fake hamster, fake followers. Aw... never mind. I do have to say that while I've enjoyed today immensely, your post alone has really caused me to laugh out loud. Big, raucous ha ha ha's. Thanks, Bruce. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 02:53:08 (EST)
From: Goldie Email: None To: Bruce Subject: EX-PREMIE FRAUDS EXPOSED Message: Hi Bruce, Did you see the meteors? You may not like what they did, but they did show it up for what it is. What do you think about the censoring in the EL forum? BTW for what it's worth, none of them are me. and remember Truth IS the Consciousness of Bliss Goldie PS Bruce said'and please spare me the crap about my not enjoying life when I say this. I've head it all before and I am enjoying telling you off.' Seems to me that you should thenk these 'exs' for giving you the opportunity of 'telling them off'. Pity you don't have have the same freedom around the premie community. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 07:59:02 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Bruce Subject: EX-PREMIE FRAUDS EXPOSED Message: Bruce, You see this 'experiment' as a fraud on the part of the ex-premie's that participated. If I had more intrest in BM I would have done the same. It turned my stomach when I checked out the site and saw the blatent lack of free expression. Please sumbit your heart felt stories and then we reserve the right to disect them! Now that is real spiritual attainment, censorship that is. It is sad, dispicable, dirty, underhanded and disgusting. I don't know how any well meaning premie can accept this if they hold any respect for themselves or freedom in general. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 08:03:37 (EST)
From: bruce is obviously not a Email: None To: Bruce Subject: very bright fellow. Message: All that volunteer work at the austrailia festival site has not done him all that much good. His response here is just just about as demented as is humanly possible. He went through the dang darshan tunnel recently and that hasn't helped either. THIS is the fruit of the master. bruce man? of the new millenium. servant of the living lord. it's like he got kicked in the head by a kangeroo. I'm glad he posts though, it is the perfect response to the genius truth brigades latest triumph. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 09:50:25 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Bruce Subject: EX-PREMIE FRAUDS EXPOSED Message: Bruce, I have a suggestion. Why don't you submit YOUR life and see how you feel after you see the edited version of it on enjoyinglife.org? You might feel differently after that. You might wonder who are these individuals to take liberty with your life and post THEIR version of it, instead of yours. You might be slightly offended, not that Nigel, Jim, TD or JW were offended by the edits on their made-up lives, but I bet the people who submitted their real lives were. Try it why don't you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 09:58:15 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Bruce EXPOSED Message: Bruce: If you can't see what is going on with the EL site censorship, then you are just a plain, ordinary, everyday MORON! Why don't you try using the few brain cells that you have left to think about this 'trojan horse' and its implications concerning your EL site and the cult that supports it. It should be fairly obvious to anyone that has the slightest bit of brain power left in their heads. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 10:20:40 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Mike Subject: Bruce EXPOSED Message: Good to hear from you again, Mike. It's been awhile :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 10:44:35 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jerry Subject: Jerry Message: Dear Jerry, Do you remember feeling left out that I hadn't responded to you in a post and so no Love, Robyn's for you? Now I am sad, I mean I'm not around that much either you know. :( Don't you miss my smiling face? I mean Mike is great and all but... Just kidding really dear. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 12:35:09 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Love ya, Robyn Message: You know that. It's just that I thought Mike flew the coup never to be seen again and then, voila(sp), sacre bleu, here he is back again, a nice surprise. But those 'Love, Robyn's' still do hit the spot, I gotta tell ya :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 12:42:35 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jerry Subject: I love you man... Message: Jerry: Nope... I was just taking a break. I'm still kinda on the break, but the 'expose' brought me back for the fireworks.... he he he. I had been asked to be a contributor, but my life story was already well known, so I couldn't come up with a believable persona to use as a submission to EL. Well, the beans have been spilt and with a predictable reaction from Bruce, et al. They miss the point entirely.... duh! Thanks for noticing my absence. I'll be lurking for a while, but I'll be active again, soon (REALLY BUSY at work and home!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:46:43 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Mike Subject: You're not gettin my Budweiser Message: He he he... No big surprise about Bruce and red heart, but I'm sure a big Drip plunked into a lot of minds on how things are being run in Maharaji's world. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 15:10:36 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Mike Subject: Me Too, Mike Message: Glad you're still around - we missed you. Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:35:13 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Robyn, Jerry, & Mike Subject: Group hug! (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:09:22 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Bruce Subject: EX-PREMIE FRAUDS EXPOSED Message: Guru Jim???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yes, he is my master. Can't you tell by all the times I've disagreed with Jim that I have surrendered my life at his holy lotus feet? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 00:38:25 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Info for Orlando the asshole! Message: Dear Orlando: You wanted more info? Here it is. Why don't you phone this woman in London, Ontario, and ask her what she meant when she said that I'd better watch it! They [the premies] were going to get me and others who post on the net. They even had a special meeting about the net in Toronto. Here's her name: Madeline Dezelak Phone number: [Deleted by Forum Elves at poster's request] Have you got the guts to call her and find out, asshole? When you're finished talking to her, why don't you call me to apologize? Probably you would rather come to my door with a shotgun. Perhaps the crowbar and hammer is more your style (the American-cult way), Orlando. You seem very proud to tell us where you're from but not who you are? You know the drill well--punch me in the face and hide. What stories have I made up? The internet story? If you want, I can publish the name of every London, Ontario cult member, address, and phone number. You can call each of them. Let me know if you want to contact them. Their perception and mine was that MJ did not want us on this site. In fact, we all found out about this site via MJ's talk about the net in the first place. BY THE WAY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE? Very truly yours, Gail C. MacDougall (519) 660-6578 PS: I'll be expecting that apology really soon, or as you Americans say REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL SOON! I trust that MJ has not absconded with all of your morals as well as your brains, has he? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 02:52:12 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: Gail Subject: Take that Orlando! Message: You go, you go! Although I think most premies would be appalled at this kind of vigilante reaction by Madelaine, I also met a few fruitbean premies (I didn't want to use 'bongo' - I find this term quite endearing now) along the way, and I also noticed in my travels around different premie communities, how different some places were to each other. In one area here, the premies were extremely aloof and unfriendly and I felt on the whole, pretty uncomfortable there. So it would not surprise me one iota that somewhere sometime along the path, there will be these kinds of extreme reactions, although like someone mentioned down below, threats are usually just that, threats. The reality is though, that the more reactions we get like that, the more impact it means we're having. I've worked on a number of social/political campaigns where I've had people ring me up and abuse me and threaten me, and it always still rattles me to a degree, but then nothing happens, and on we go. It's a pity you've been the target of this. They should come on here and try that. Let us know if more stuff like that happens. Take care, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 03:25:45 (EST)
From: An Enemy Email: None To: Gail Subject: Info for Orlando the asshole! Message: An enemy of Maharaji, that is. This sick cult has got to be stopped. I have some things up my sleeve (totally legal) which the cult won't like. You aint seen nothin' get. If Maharaji thinks this web site is nasty, just wait and see what's in store! And it's nothing but the truth. Oh yes, and if Elan Vital want to try to sue me, I'd love to see them try. Be seeing you all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 09:38:26 (EST)
From: Orlando the a... Email: None To: Gail Subject: talk about threats! Message: hi Gail i hope that your friend gave you the authorization to post her phone number on the net! oh boy... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 10:05:48 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Orlando the a... Subject: talk about threats! Message: Hey Orlando, guess what.... No one has to be 'asked' to post anything on the internet... That info is public record and is located in any 'phone book' site on the net, you moron. Only the EL site censors communications. When YOU ALL continue to call Gail a liar, what do you expect her to do? She will do whatever it takes to see to it that it stops. So why don;t you call the individual and find out what she said? Are you afraid of the truth? Me thinks that you are VERY afraid of the truth! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 10:29:05 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Mike Subject: i am so scared Message: i thought the 'individual' was Gail's friend... if my friend posted MY phone number in a Forum, i sure would like to know about it ahead of time (just out of respect?) heck! does not matter around here forget that and post! PS: why would i call...any semblance of credibility has disappeared...for all i know, this could be another type of 'Trojan horse'... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 11:30:10 (EST)
From: david m Email: None To: Orlando Subject: i am so scared!!!!!!!!!!!! Message: Hey Big O..... It sounds like you really are starting to think...wooops thts not allowed...in jai sat chit anand land of enjoying life...and if your enjoying so much why you hanging arroud here ...hey if its me im to busy enjoying .....but hang arround for a while things could change..........peace dave Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 12:36:02 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Orlando Subject: i am so scared Message: Orlando: Personally, I don't think Gail would do a trojan horse. As to the definition of a 'friend,' well I can honestly tell you that my friends have NEVER threatened me in any way whatsoever. They would let me know if a threat existed and would take active steps to quell the threat, but they would NEVER pass a threat. Do you understand my meaning here? If someone threatens, they are, by definition, NOT MY friend. Your point is well taken concerning asking friends, but I don't think that Gail is out of line on this one because it doesn't sound like this person is a 'friend' at all. (IMHO) Once again, unless you are VERY new to this forum, you should note that Gail's veracity has been questioned many times by 'active' premies that have posted here. In each case she has maintained herself and held back her anger pretty damned well. But there is a breaking point and I think that you happen to be the 'lucky' one that crossed that line. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 13:41:50 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Orlando Subject: Madge isn't my friend anymore. Message: She is the one who made the threat, you moron. She even put it in writing. I got to see it for myself. I am contemplating involving the police. She used to be an aquaintance in the cult. Now I am her enemy, I guess. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 13:54:33 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Gail Subject: Madge isn't my friend anymore. Message: Dear Gail, I think I told you before that I had been threatened by an old boyfriend (although not in writing - sheesh! - that is not too bright.) I did complain to the police, and they weren't all that interested, but they did make a record of the visit. So it is an action you can take. You can also get a restraining order (at least in the US), but they don't do much good, in my experience. Hope you're holding up alright. I know how scary it can be. Love, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 18:57:12 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Orlando Subject: i am so scared Message: Oh please, you sound like a big baby. You asked for evidence and Gail gave it to you. Now you pout and say 'I'm not going to play with you anymore.' Grow up. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 09:40:25 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Gail Subject: Info for Orlando the asshole! Message: Gail, go girl! And thanks from me for responding to Orlando. You certainly do deserve an apology. I suppose I could call up Madeline and ask her myself, but did you get the impression when Madeline said this to you that Madeline was trying to warn you, because she cared about you, or that she was just being threatening because she doesn't like that you are an outspoken ex-premie? Maybe I'm stereotyping, but I have a hard time thinking of Canadians as being violent about anything. Americans, maybe, that's because we were raised on life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness -- individualism run rampant. Not to mention that we are awash in guns. While Canadians are raised on citizenship, good government, and never crossing a street when the light is red. I can just hear the discussion at that meeting in Toronto: 'Tally ho, everyone, and god save the queen! I know I am quite perturbed that ex-premies, especially our formerly stalwart associate, Gail, are saying naughty things about Maharaji on the net. Doesn't that just strain your crease, as well, Colin, eh? Of course, no one hear would ever dream of looking at that ghastly ex-premie site, correct?' 'Yes, Gavin, I feel rightly irritated that those ex-premies are being frightfully beastly, even my mummy thinks so. This is particulaly perturbing because we, in Toronto, are simultaneously, in a syncrhonized fashion, running video events, as well as anticipating, and preparing for, a possible visit by Maharaji himself. But do Gail and those others care? Do they see how impeccable Maharaji's organization is? From what I can tell they don't. So what if only 4 people show up to video events? So what if only 14 people have received knowledge in Canada in the past 10 years? Things are being run well, by his grace. You all know what they say about Toronto, it's New York as run by the Swiss. What do you think, Madeline?' 'I think I am going to phone up Gail and give her a piece of my mind, er uh, company of truth. I am going to give her a good talking to. We have already sent her to Coventry, but I think it might be time to intimidate her a tad. And I know we Canadian premies can be intimidating when we are so incensed as we are now. I suggest that if Gail doesn't immediately cease her naughty attacks on Maharaji and knowledge, that we steal some of the flowers out of her garden. I know that is a drastic step, but these are drastic times. God save the queen!' 'Very well, now I feel guilty we are talking when we could be listening to the master. Pierre, please put on the video at once! Jai Satchitanand, I mean, thank you very much.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 11:47:57 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: Talk about stereotyping!! Message: Well, Joe, I guess that's the last we'll hear from you on the subject of unneccessary stereotypes. Hrmmphh!! Look, if you were right I'd be out of work. Canadians got hockey, don't forget. Still pretty funny though. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 13:13:42 (EST)
From: david m Email: None To: Jim Subject: Canadian Hockey OT Message: Hey Jim ..... My son who is 14 plays hockey and living in detroit we play the canadian teams all the time...we haven't lost to one of them in four years ...maybe its a u.s. thing {just kidding}...dave Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 13:27:38 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Talk about stereotyping!! Message: Jim, I heard an interview the other day with Peter Jennings (ABC News Anchor and a Canadian) and he was asked whether American and Canadian cultures were different. He gave an example to illustrate. He said he and his son went to the World Series Championship game in Toronto, when the Blue Jays won. He said lots and lots of beer was consumed by the fans and they were very excited and very loaded. But when this huge crowd poured out of the stadium onto the street, there was only ONE Toronto policeman there and this ONE policeman held up his hand in front of the crowd and the ENTIRE, drunk, rowdy crowd STOPPED without incident and obeyed the policeman's directions. That would never would have happened in the USA. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 17:51:08 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: JW Subject: Upon my word JW, I dare say Message: that you have been in the company of one too many Jane Austen films. My recommendation would be to take some respite from such celluloid exposure, as it occurs to me that spending time in the presence of such tales is having a rather unbecoming effect on your vocabulary. If you do not desist in causing discomfort to your northern neighbours by referring to them in such a manner, I believe that they could suffer from the tremors and be forced to calm their nerves with lashings of iced tea or ginger beer. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:13:54 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: TD Subject: Upon my word JW, I dare say Message: Yes, Jane Austin films and Masterpiece Theatre on PBS and listening to 'As It Happens' with Micheal Enwright on the CBC (from Minnesota Public Radio, which also brings us 'Prarie Home Companion.') On the CBC, they say 'oothoose' instead of 'outhouse' and 'aboot' instead of 'about.' Stuff like that. Robert McNeil edited this great book called 'The Story Of English.' In it, he said the Canadian dialect came from Tories from the American Colonies, mostly living in Western New York who migrated to Canada, or where thrown out or the colonies and into Canada, because they supported the crown in the Revolutionary War. Supposedly, the dialect was spoken in the upstate New York area originally. Isn't that interesting? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 18:56:42 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: Awash???? Message: Hey JW: 'Awash in guns?????' When was the last time that you went to the 'gun beach' and were awash in guns? I've never seen the place......he he he. SORRY, I just couldn't resist the opportunity.... :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:21:33 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Mike Subject: Awash???? Message: Yeah, I take my daily bath in guns for good hygeine. But here is what would happen at a World Series Game in the USA, as opposed to Canada. When the crowd emerged, rowdy and drunk, there would be 5000 police, in riot gear, carring clubs and sheilds, and, of course, guns. Probably dogs too. A few police helicopters would circle overhead. Then, when the American fans ignored any of the police directions, and started turning over cars and breaking windows, and looting, the police would slowly move down the street beating and arresting people, using those plastic strips instead of metal wrist locks. If the fans were sitting where they weren't supposed to and wouldn't move, the police would dab pepper spray solution directly into their eyes with cotton balls, which is perfectly legal to use even for entirely non-violent or non-aggressive people. Now, in Britain, at or after one of those 'football' games, the above would look like a tea party, but the British police wouldn't have guns. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 21:53:56 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: JW Subject: Awash???? Message: I take my gun bath on Saturday night; it's very special! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 09:47:15 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Awash???? Message: MP: You are a peach... he he he. Actually, those saturday nite baths are too cheap for me. I like to luxuriate in the high quality, long lasting gun-baths myself..... he he he. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 11:25:25 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Mike Subject: Awash???? Message: But how can we poor folks afford a gun bath? We need those less-expensive, easy to obtain models, at least that's what Matt Fong said. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 13:15:47 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Awash???? Message: MP: Save your money and get a quality 'washing' as opposed to the cheap thrill type that couldn't hit the side of a barn.... Ok, Ok, enough already. JW opened a door and I walked in, with knowledge aforethought.... he he he. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 09:44:35 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: I don't know.... Message: JW: There have been some pretty violent confrontations between authorities and 'fans' at many 'football' games in Europe. In fact, that can be said of relations between the fans of opposing teams. I seem to remember that a fan set fire to some stands that were inhabited by the fans of the opposing team not so long ago. If I remember correctly, it killed quite a few people. They get pretty 'excited' there, too..... he he he. ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:56:49 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Gail Subject: Jim should call Madeline Message: Do you think Madeline would tell Orlando the truth even if he called her up? I think Jim should call her and find out what she intends to do to him. (snicker!) Shame on you, Madeline. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 18:42:31 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: VP Subject: I did Message: Veep, Funny you should suggest that because I just did call Madelaine ('Madge'). I introduced myself and she advised me she'd never heard of me and had never visited the ex site. In fact, she says, she doesn't have a computer. In fact, she really didn't want to talk with me. But she did. A bit. I read her Gail's relevant posts and Orlando's as well. Madelaine says she never went to any such meeting, doesn't know what I'm talking about, never threatened anyone in any way, shape or form and didn't want to talk with me anymore. Bye! So then I called Gail. Gail explained that Madelaine had actually put this in a letter to a mutual friend and that friend had once shown the letter to her. Gail said she'd try to get a copy and send it to me. And there it sits. You know, I'm having a hard time believing Gail in all this because her being right would mean that a premie was lying. :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:35:27 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: I did Message: Jim, poor Madeline. Maybe she didn't threaten anyone or know of any threats, but if I was Gail, I would keep an eye on my flower beds! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:49:21 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: Tonight Message: Joe, You're seeing Dawkins and Cleese tonight, aren't you? I envy you, natch. Will you try to take mental notes or something and share what you can here? I'm sure I'm not the only guy who wants to hear what Cleese has to say. (Who's this Dawkins guy anyway?) Thanks, Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 21:40:40 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Jim Subject: caught again... Message: i may be an asshole but it looks to me that Gail DID make up the story hehehehehe. supposedly this was discussed in a meeting in Toronto....now, it is in a letter of a friend of a friend.... she blurted out the name of Madge who had nothing to do with this.... like i said...nice little story Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 22:36:27 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Orlando Subject: no, just stupid, that's all Message: i may be an asshole but it looks to me that Gail DID make up the story hehehehehe. supposedly this was discussed in a meeting in Toronto....now, it is in a letter of a friend of a friend.... she blurted out the name of Madge who had nothing to do with this.... like i said...nice little story Oy vey, you're dumb. Gail explained that Madge went to a fundraising meeting in Toronto. -- Got that much? At the meeting, this site was mentioned. Premies were discouraged to read it or have anything to do with the people here. -- Anything suspicious there? Come on, dummy, tell me cause I don't see it myself. Well? WELL?? Yeah, right. Just like I thought. Okay, anyway, Madge then wrote a letter to another woman, A., telling her what was said at the meeting including that they were going to 'get' the ex's, whatever the hell that means. -- Alright, Sherlock? We're not in the X-Files yet now are we? Someone actually wrote a letter to someone else explaining what happened at a meeting. Now here's the part that must be really hard for you to accept. A showed Gail the letter. Hey, that's tricky! What else? Oh yeah, I called Madge and she denied everything. But here's what she said. She didn't know anything about no ex site (sure, Madge). She never went to no fundraiser and never heard anything said about no one. AND she didn't want to talk with me any further. Note that not for asecond, even after I read what Gail said about her, did she once say that she was going to call Gail and demand a retraction. Not once did she say that Gail was lying. Not once did she express anything slightly akin to surprise or justified indignation at being framed for something. Frankly, I'd say she sounded like she was simply lying to me but again, the difficulty I have with that is that she's a premie and we know they don't lie. So now Gail's going to try to track down the letter. And cna you wait for this little bit of confirming evidence? No, hardly. Why not? Because you're a goof. You don't care the first thing abotu the truth, you're just some anonymous fluff stuck to the bottom of your hamster's socks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 09:27:24 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Jim Subject: i will wait Message: no problem...let's see how long it takes... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 20:47:33 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Orlando Subject: Intimidation follow-up Message: This afternoon, at my office, I got a call from a woman from London, Ontario. In fact, she's the mutual friend Gail referred to who received a letter from Madelaine (Madge) describing the Toronto fund-raising meeting where the ex site was mentioned. I'll call her 'Lea' to portect her anonymity to some extent, as she's requested, although she and I both know that anyone in London who cares -- especially Madge -- could easily figure out who she is. Here's what she said: Madge did indeed tell her about a meeting in Toronto where the premies were directed to avoid our site and were advised that we were being monitored. Moreover, she recalls, Madge told her that 'something' would be done, that the premies weren't just going to sit back forever and let us ridicule their fat, greasy Hamster. Lea expressed some shock or indignation about all this and, somehow, this only spurred Madge on. Perhaps Lea gave Madge the impression that she questioned her description of what had transpired at the meeting. Anyway, for some reason, Madge then wrote Lea not one but two long, rambling letters in which she confirmed all she'd said and went so far as to add that she -- or they -- were going to 'get' Gail. I asked Lea for a copy of the letter(s) but she said she wouldn't send them to me. She won't throw them out and will hold on to them lest Gail ever get seriously harrassed. In the meantime, however, she's as much concerned for Madge's welfare as Gail's. She's concerned that Madge might suffer some harrassment of her own from the cult for being so stupid as to leak out this information and for putting it in writing, no less. Lea was calling me from Gail's and I spoke with Gail briefly before saying goodbye. Then, when I got home, I called Madelaine again. She wasn't home but I left her a message. I said that I'd spoken with their mutual friend who advises that she does indeed have the letters Gail's mentioned wherein she threatens that she( or they) were going to 'get' Gail. I told her that Lea left me with no doubt that she was telling the truth and that it would be extremely stupid for anyone to do anything at all to harrass Gail in the circumstances. It wouldn't bode well for her or anyone associated with the cult, especially the Hamster himself. Hopefully, that's the end of that. For what it's worth, neither Gail nor Lea -- nor I for that matter -- think of this as anything more than a loose cannon venting a bit. Still, this kind of 'propogation' is intolerable. I trust that Madge has learnt something from this. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 23:22:57 (EST)
From: david m Email: None To: Jim Subject: The Merry Prankster Cafe Message: Hey Jim...... Two friends of mine own the Merry Prankster Cafe in La Honda calf. I believe you all should have a perminent seat at the bar thanks....dave Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 00:13:12 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: david m Subject: Soon, snail-mail will be the Message: way to post on enjoyinglife. Premies will have to write their stories and have them approved by: a) their local-yokel contact person b) their country headquarters c) MJ himself d) and finally be posted on the site. By then, each entry should read. K is great. MJ is great. Have a great life. 'Keep on truckin'.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 01:26:40 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: Gail Subject: Enjoyinglife.org Lite Message: Premies will have to write their stories and have them approved by: a) their local-yokel contact person b) their country headquarters c) MJ himself d) and finally be posted on the site. By then, each entry should read. K is great. MJ is great. Have a great life. 'Keep on truckin'.' You know Gail, I think the Big M is going to even have to bypass this strategy. He will probably follow the guru-pattern as outlined in books like The Guru Papers. 1. Firstly, he will BLAME the enjoyinglife.org premies for fucking up, it's all their fault that people have gone and submitted fake entries and his influence had nothing to do with it - either directly or indirectly. 2. He will then console himself by buying a REALLY EXPENSIVE NEW TOY that is deserving of a Perfect Master. Hmmm, what hasn't he got? I know. A Space Shuttle would be nice, or maybe he could heal his ego wounds by buying the Taj Mahal as a nice little holiday retreat for post-Hans Jayanti. 3. After he has composed himself, he will then get premies doing service to turn one of the 8 garages in Malibu into the new web-room (if only his son would get his truck out of the way first and Ann Johnstone removes all the 'lint' from the walls). He will then have all accounts of premies lives removed from the site, and you will only be able to read what you get at a video event - which is him in an edited version sprouting crap. This whole thing will transform enjoyinglife.org from a premies site into his OWN SITE. 4. However, he will be further distressed to have to go down this path, as already SO MANY OTHER GURUS have got their own web-site, and unfortunately, it's difficult to establish some kind of divine exclusive hierarchy on the web, so.... 5. He will have to count up the remaining hard-core premies, drink some more cognac, and hopefully fade off into obscurity (hope really does spring eternal here). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:59:41 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: TD Subject: LOL, TD!-nt Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 20:33:02 (EST)
From: red heart Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Best site on the web Message: http://www.enjoyinglife.com Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 20:51:55 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: red heart Subject: My follow-up letter to ELK Message: 'Okay guys, I'm sure you've dropped by the ex site by now and have clued in on 'Operation Trojan Horse'. Tell me, what do you think? Pretty neat, huh? We wrote you and asked you about censorship but you just smugly stonewalled us. So, mindful as always, we tested the waters. And boy did they prove murky! Really, Jonathan and the rest, I'd say this is a pretty shameful day for you all. What do YOU say? You realize, of course, that your page will henceforth have absolutely no credibility, don't you? You might as well relax about getting various testimonials from people. Why bother? The gig's up in terms of honesty. If this were the regular publishing world you four would be banished forever. I don't think a liar or plagiarist ever recovers from this kind of scandal. Do you? I mean once you've been caught fudging your sources who's ever going to believe you again? Time to find some good, hoenst blue collar work, I'd say. You punch in, you punch out, your supervisor can watch you when he wants and fuck 'em in the head office if they accuse you of taking home a little product. You got your union to protect you anyway. But the loftier realm of trust and reputatable communication? Forget it, fellas. You might as well all be astrologists as far as that's concerned. So, tell me, how do you FEEL right now, huh? Thoughts, words, who cares about those. Let's talk FEELING and GRATITUDE, shall we? Let's talk about your gratitude to Maharaji for helping you become the fine people you are today. Look at you! You know what really irks me more than anything. It's a personal thing, please bear with me. In my 'David Goldber' testimonial you actually changed the question I'd asked and made it to be one completely differnt. If there really was a David Goldberg you'd completely fucked with his story, guys! I jsut can't get over that. Anyway, you've proven our point in spades. We WILL make sure this repugnant practise of yours is always publicized on the net. Some premies won't give a shit. Others will. You'll continue doing your stupid dog and pony show. Whatever. One day, Jonathan, your kids will find our page. They'll see what kind of liars you all are. Fuck Maharaji, you'll end up answering to some people you REALLY care about. Serves you right. Take care, Jim' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:06:44 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: My follow-up to my follow-up Message: 'Just to let you guys know, you haven't gotten all the fake entries yet. Far from it. Want a little help? Here's a hint: follow the money!' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:15:48 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Patterns? Message: Yes, Jim, credibility will always be a problem, but since when did that stop any of the stuff that goes on in cults? You know, I think the most amazing thing about all this is that ex-premies, people who supposedly are no longer 'enjoyinglife' and are no longer having 'that experience, that love, that joy' or visiting 'that place' are able to write those 'lives' entries as convincingly as any supposed premie who is supposedly having 'that experience.' It just goes to show you anyone can spout that drivel and even feel good about it. (Although I did gag a couple of times writing those things.) But I still see little real pattern in the censorship, except.... Obviously, they don't allow anything even remotely negative, or anything that could be construed as negative or critical about the Lord. Not even a mention that he might at some point made the smallest, most insignificant of mistakes. That's for sure. That is verbotten. Also, no mention of 'god' in any way related to M or knowledge, but then you can't say M is just a human being either or that knowledge isn't the experience of god. Funny. He's god, but you can't say it out loud; you just praise him to high heaven, but don't use those words. It seems they don't want to let people who aren't current cult members think it's a religious, devotional cult, but at the same time, they don't want to allow in anything that might in any way be the least bit offensive to the lord's ego either. This is the only pattern I can tell. Oh, yeah. You can't talk about Millennium festival and don't mention the fact that at that festival Maharaji was supposed to announce his plan to bring peace to the entire world. That isn't allowed either. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:21:58 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Jim Subject: My follow-up letter to ELK Message: If there really was a David Goldberg you'd completely fucked with his story, guys! I just can't get over that. I think it's a damn shame that the cult won't let people tell their stories as is. Imagine how many premies have had their stories, experiences and questions edited there. Wonder how they feel about it...are they in a trance and don't even care? I mean, we see the danger in it, but do they? Can they? Got a catalog to buy watches from the Lord a week ago. Can you believe the Lord is selling watches, jewelry, etc? He even has his own crest. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 10:18:34 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: My follow-up letter to ELK Message: Excellent letter, Jim. I bet they're beet red with embarassment right now, as they should be. Congrats to you, JW, Nigel and TD for a job well done. Excellent covert operation, gentleman, and ladies, of course. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 20:52:59 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: red heart Subject: Most draconian site on the web Message: http://www.enjoyinglife.com Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:00:01 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: TD Subject: Most draconian site on the web Message: I IS pretty amazing to see the evidence all layed out there. How many more are there, Nigel, that you didn't tell them about? 10? 20? By the way, the entires have ALREADY disappeared from Premie Pravda' (aka enjoyinglife.org). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:26:36 (EST)
From: Peter Email: None To: JW Subject: Premie Pravda Message: I have to admit I've gotten a big kick out of the editing revelations (great job, Nigel et al.! you handled it very well). But the biggest kick by far was from your report on the immediate disappearance of these entries. They were never there, right? We can cover it up, right? The editing may have been clumsy, but it was deft by comparison with this move. Your phrase 'Premie Pravda' is brilliant, it captures that spirit so completely. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:30:02 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Peter Subject: Premie Pravda Message: Well, thank you. But, as usual, to give credit where it's due, I think Jim used that title first. It's just that until the Soviet-like tactics of 'Premie Pravda were exposed, he couldn't use it publicly. It IS great, though, isn't it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:00:14 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: TD Subject: Most draconian site on the web Message: Ah, Jim and TD and all You have enriched my life way more than that little guy ever did. Especially when it comes to laughs. Thanks for all the enjoylife trojan stuff. I had considered the same thing, posting as Luna or somebody, but you know, I just didn't care enough about premies, M , or their stupid web site. I haven't been there, once. And they can prove that, not that they will show any interest in stupid ole me! But I am so glad that you do have the energy. It is a sign of intelligence and spirit, that you did that. Not to mention a great sense of humor! . And truly, where do they get off editing those comments and pretending to really represent the 'truth' ugh. how hyprocritical of them! .. Thanks so much. Selene... feeling like there is hope.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:08:25 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: all Subject: ps to Nigel, JW and all Message: Thank you too! Didn't mean to neglect anyone. I am still laughing. To think, less than a year ago I was still trying to buy into it trying to believe. Wben I see that Ex files poster in Agent Mulder's office 'I Want To Believe' that's all I can think of. Me. Against every instinct trying to go for something that was SO repressive and stifling. And to see it exposed like this is too funny!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:28:02 (EST)
From: Nigel Email: None To: red heart Subject: Like the melting snow, indeed. Message: Hi Colin, Christ, that was quick! Would you like us to identify the others for you? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:47:43 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Like the melting snow, indeed. Message: Thank you Nigel. Excellent job. Your comments were priceless. And I know it's late for you, so I hope you get a good night's sleep. I guess you kept up the enjoyinglife people as well. Maybe you should start dropping hints about the other entries you haven't mentioned yet. Nah! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 21:59:54 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: JW/Nigel/Jim Subject: Snow melts bloody fast! Message: Wow, that sure was quick! Looks like they replaced whoever was asleep on the knife this last week, with Zorro! Hey, how soon do you think it will be before EV/Big M are alerted as to the shenanigans his 'enemies' are up to? Time for another fireside teleconference satsang, methinks! How on earth can enjoyingcultlife.org ever live this down? Bad way to start guys! Your credibility is now zip. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 22:23:00 (EST)
From: Nigel Email: None To: TD Subject: Snow melts bloody fast! Message: I reckon the Elks have two options, re. existing contributions: (1) Republish every they have edited, except without the edits. (2) Remove from the site everything they have edited so far. As regards future submissions, two options: (1) Publish everything they receive in its entirety. (2) Don't publish entries they don't feel 100% happy with. Sorry, they have a THIRD option: (3) Shut down this whole pathetic sham of an operation before they become a complete laughing stock (as if they hadn't already). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Nov 17, 1998 at 22:47:57 (EST)
From: Nigel Email: None To: JW Subject: Like the melting snow, indeed. Message: Maybe you should start dropping hints about the other entries you haven't mentioned yet. Nah! Let them do the work, I say... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 01:30:16 (EST)
From: Marion the Jailer Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Alice the Goon .org Message: WOW! What a comic masterpiece! We have the evidence because JM downloaded the whole enjoyinglife site. It was a jaw dropping rush to read the evidence and a great laugh. You guys are the true merry pranksters. You must have shocked the zealots at ratwat central. They probably can't sleep. Imagine all the deletions they made of the tape of the lord! Even HE can't make the censors cut over there in premie pravda. I posted a post that didn't make it even in a revised edition. Proves it can be done I guess. I am amazed at the swallowing the censors had to do to even post some of the paragraphs that they did. You guys were wicked in your challenges. We should get Mili to lend us a page of that old wallpaper from the old premie site. It was a classic. I feel a little dirty posting in a thread that red fart started. This is really a terrific 10 o'clock surprise. Much better than the things I was thinking. Bravos and three cheers to all the wayward souls that put on this wild fun. We do need a -best of- section of this site. Also, Ratty Ji's invasion of maharji's brothers second coming was another classic prank for truth. Who thunk this up first? A group phone call? Maybe we can get the full tape of katmandu and see what they edited out of THAT. Thanks and a hat tip to the international team of comedians. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 01:47:20 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: The Pranksters Subject: Best site on the web Message: Wonderful job, everyone! This was an inspired and perfect hoax. I am very proud of all of you and very glad to be an ex-premie. You folks are magnificent!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 03:07:59 (EST)
From: Red as a Beet Email: None To: red heart Subject: Best site on the web Message: You probably meant: http://www.enjoyinglife.org But really, are you serious? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:48:54 (EST)
From: Joy Email: None To: Red as a Beet Subject: Censorship Message: Dear Red, Red Heart is a premie. He/she was just adding their two cents worth about the situation. Something that's not allowed to happen over at enjoyinglife.org (soon to be .com, hopefully). Can't believe the BM is figuring out a way to capitalize and make a buck on this already. If he's a Master of anything, it's how to make money off his gullible, unsuspecting premies. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 14:51:14 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Joy Subject: Censorship Message: But he can't do it with the .org url! This is too funny. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 16:00:40 (EST)
From: the devil Email: None To: Selene Subject: that damn elk.org Message: quick! somebody register enjoyinglife.com with internic so the premie dopes don't get it first and they will have to think of something new and lose more momentum. hahahahahahah Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 1998 at 19:07:09 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: red heart Subject: Best Liars on the web Message: Ditto the url of enjoyingstuffingmytongueintomynasalcavity.org. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 19, 1998 at 13:01:53 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mike Subject: Best Censors on the web Message: Ditto the url of enjoying-my-inability-to-communicate-freely.org or the alias herman-goebles.org Return to Index -:- Top of Index |