Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 30 | |
From: Nov 23, 1998 |
To: Dec 5, 1998 |
Page: 4 Of: 5 |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 00:28:34 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: Everyone Subject: journeys Message: If you haven't yet read AJW's segment in journeys , its well worth a look. I once wore one of those awful rainbow GMJ badges that he talks about- to work , on buses,everywhere--cringe. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 09:32:36 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: chr Subject: AJW's journeys entry Message: Couldn't agree with you more, chr. I moved that one up to the top of the stack, so it's now the 'default' entry that will get read first. Had to remove the wording on the main Journeys page that said that all the entries signed by a first name or initials only were at the bottom of the list. Sheeesh, you people make it hard to have any kind of rules! But I don't want to have to be the one to send the baby back out into the rain... For those who haven't read it yet, RIGHT HERE is a direct link to it. Enjoy! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 13:34:51 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Brian Subject: AJW's journeys entry Message: Dear Brian, Thanks for the link. That was a great entry. God I have got to get to work but what an excellent story and so well written. I have spoken to another PAM with similar feelings about BM. He's been hookwinked like the rest of us. The only thing I have to add is that no matter what your childhood, abuse or worship, at some point we all become responsible for ourselves, our actions and behaviors. This is where I think M has fallen way short. As long as he has a brain, isn't an idiot then he should be facing some tough truths and isn't. Thanks AJW! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 13:48:59 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Robyn Subject: AJW's journeys entry Message: What is a PAM? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 13:56:47 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Helen Subject: AJW's journeys entry Message: Dear Helen, I feel so old and knowlegable! :) PAM = Person(s) Around Maharaji Hope you had a good T-day Helen. Now I can get into Christmas! :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 16:01:03 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Thanks Message: I thought it was a cooking spray...something about the ' Teflon Guru' springs to mind... Christmas???AAAAAIIIIIIIEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!! MY daughter wants Barbies Barbies and more Barbies. It is a nightmare of Barbies at my house. Love, Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 15:05:45 (EST)
From: Barney Email: None To: Brian Subject: Quick - Edit (censor) AJW! Message: Quick, edit the happy, forgiving ending to AJW's Journey. AJW needs to show more anger and resentment. We can't let Internet Surfers and Lurkers get the wrong idea that we are reasonable, rational, understanding, and even forgiving. This, IMHO, is the ultimate, epitome of a Journey. It has it all. Covers just about everything imaginable. No matter when you got into The Thing, it has relevance. Not only that, but it is a great chronicle. The Drip, Drip, Drip stuff was great. And the questions that AJW presents (eg. 'How come it made intelligent people talk like idiots?' are completely right on. Thank you, thank you! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 15:23:40 (EST)
From: Barney Email: None To: Barney Subject: two more things Message: 1. AJW's final days of disillusionment with Knowledge Lite is very much like my own. The videos (mountain streams), poetry, the LOGO, all that crap. Emeperor's Clothes, indeed. 2. In regards to the insensitivity of the usher at the program regarding the incident of the mother and child in the stroller being cast out into the pouring rain, the concept we bought into was that we being presented an opportunity to surrender our ego, blah, blah, blah. But, consider it for what it is: Mind Control. And consider it worse where you are eventually broken to the point of eagerly gulping down your cyanide koolaid. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 17:04:09 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Barney Subject: two more things Message: In regards to the insensitivity of the usher at the program regarding the incident of the mother and child in the stroller being cast out into the pouring rain, the concept we bought into was that we being presented an opportunity to surrender our ego, blah, blah, blah. But, consider it for what it is: Mind Control. And consider it worse where you are eventually broken to the point of eagerly gulping down your cyanide koolaid. It was the Jonestown mass suicides that caused Bob Mishler to begin going public with what he knew about Maharaji, so I won't dispute that part of your comments. I was reading through some posts on the premie forum and was struck by one woman who posted praise for the existence of the forum. She then questioned whether it was something that Maharaji supported, and made vague waffling statements about the possible dangers lurking in using the Internet. Although she was personally enjoying using and reading the forum, there was a conveyance that she would quickly and willingly abandon the practice if Maharaji wanted it. That's the saddest part of the devotional aspect of the cult - that adults would act on another's feelings and beliefs (Maharaji's) over acting on their own. Abdicating personal responsibility for one's life like that is pretty disgusting in my view. Wonder if menus present problems for that sort of mindset - What would Maharaji want me to order?... As an aside, AJW's entry was sent in a proprietary word processor format that I couldn't crack. I had to go through it by hand in a text editor to take out the stuff that the WP inserted. The Drips were included in the text where they were. But it was all jumbled together and there was no indication where the paragraph breaks were. I'm the one who set them out so visibly and in boldface, and put his final questions in list format in the process of editing the page. Hope he didn't object. There's usually some cleanup associated with an entry. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 04:30:59 (EST)
From: AJW Email: None To: Brian Subject: two more things Message: Brian, Sorry about the messy RTF file. Thanks for cleaning it up. I'm still new to the Internet. And thanks for keeping this site alive. When I first discovered it, it was a real lifeline for helping sort my thoughts and ideas out. And now I'm Free................... AJW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 08:54:06 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: AJW Subject: two more things Message: And thanks for keeping this site alive. When I first discovered it, it was a real lifeline for helping sort my thoughts and ideas out. The way that most people step into discussions here is by lurking for a while, and then tentatively posting in the forum after deciding that Jim isn't a total carnivore [grin]. Many need a lot of encouragement and time before they submit a Journeys entry. Yours surprised me because it seemed to come out of the blue. How long were you around and reading during the sorting out process? Just curious. BTW, I personally like the 'happy ending' to your entry. Making peace with the past was my reason for doing a websearch. I'm also glad that this site was here for me at the time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 21:29:29 (EST)
From: sr-bb Email: None To: Everyone Subject: question for OP and shp Message: When prem rawat said recently in nepal- 'we see the creator as compassionate or merciless, depending on our mood. the creator is niether' 'We keep a true understanding of the creator at arms length. And then we get stuck.' My question to you is, what understanding of the creator? I listened to him for years and You tell me what the understanding of the creator is. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 21:34:17 (EST)
From: srb Email: None To: sr-bb Subject: also Message: shp asked me to reconsider my relationship with prem rawat. I ask you, what relationship do you think he has with me? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 17:17:34 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: sr-bb Subject: question for OP and shp Message: Your question was: My question to you is, what understanding of the creator? I listened to him for years and You tell me what the understanding of the creator is. My answer is: For me, my understanding of the Creator is the experience I have when I am practicing Knowledge. It is, of course, ineffable. it is what it is. Beyond words. As for what I think Maharaji's relationship with you is, I would say it's the same relationship he commits to with everyone who receives Knowledge. In all sincerity, if you really want the answer to that question, I suggest you write directly to him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 18:30:10 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: shp Subject: shp-shrihans productions? Message: would you reread the questions and try again? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 12:33:34 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: bb Subject: shp-shrihans productions? Message: i am not shri hans productions, atlhough the niitials would suggest that. perhaps you need to re-read the answers. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 16:09:40 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: shp Subject: shp-shrihans productions? Message: There is no understanding of 'the creator' that I see you have addressed. I know you can post at length, and I think this is a fair topic. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 18:43:13 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: bb Subject: shp-shrihans productions? Message: a drop of water describes the ocean: it's just like me only bigger Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 20:54:05 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: shp Subject: I'm trying, shp Message: For me, my understanding of the Creator is the experience I have when I am practicing Knowledge. It is, of course, ineffable. it is what it is. Beyond words. shp, I'm making a conscious effort to keep my cool and talk with you a bit. It's hard, though, because you seem to operate on an extremely naive level. For example, do you really think that above is any kind of an answer to anything? It isn't. Frankly, it's quite a stupid substitute for an answer. You believe there's a 'creator'. In your mind this means something. You might not be able to explain every last parameter of the concept but that's not to say it's completely lacking all definition. All you've done here is evade the question. That's dishonest and no, the supposed ineffability of the supposed creator doesn't change a damn thing. It's still a concept and, if you want to play clean, you might as well share it. As for what I think Maharaji's relationship with you is, I would say it's the same relationship he commits to with everyone who receives Knowledge. In all sincerity, if you really want the answer to that question, I suggest you write directly to him. Are you serious? Do you have any idea how many respectful, sincere letters ex's have written the guy he's never answered? For many here that was the first (or maybe final) step in their withdrawal of services. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 12:39:34 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: I'm trying, shp Message: either you have hard information that i do not have, or you have misinterpreted something and gone south with it to the max. that seems to be the crux of the problem of communication between not only myself and this site (excuse the generality - catch my drift instead) but most all other premies who post here. suggestions? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 13:12:17 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: shp Subject: I'm trying, shp Message: either you have hard information that i do not have, or you have misinterpreted something and gone south with it to the max. that seems to be the crux of the problem of communication between not only myself and this site (excuse the generality - catch my drift instead) but most all other premies who post here. suggestions? What are you talking about? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 13:40:46 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: I'm trying, jim Message: here we are, two relativeley intelligent human beings who have collided in our respective searches for reality. we disagree about the authenticity of a particular individual who puroprts to be a true teacher. i believe him, you once did and now you don't. why, specifically don't you any more? - would be a good question for me to ask, but i don't have any illusions about putting myself in the role of the great explainer, that's not me. you think i am deluded by a charlatan but you don't list point by factual point your reasons. this is as journalistic and unopinionated as i can describe our relationship to date. where do ya want to go from here? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 19:44:49 (EST)
From: hamzen Email: None To: shp Subject: Your trying, shp Message: Thought Knowledge was about doing away with belief, experiencing the truth of each moment as it is, otherwise it's another religion, of the sort the scamster is so fond of deriding? I wish you would fill in with some descriptions of your experiences and the belief structures they have induced. It might maake it easier for us to be clear about how you've arrived where you are, especially if you were to start from the beginning. Intelligence can only be demonstrated by rationality. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 18:44:46 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: hamzen Subject: Your trying, hamzen Message: that's a big one - no time now - will get back to ya Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 19:43:38 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Where's op? Message: Really, I don't know how you can hope to ever have the slightest credibility here if you keep darting off whenever someone responds to you, challenging what you say. You claim to lurk and you pop up every now and then. What's your excuse for interactus interruptus? Can you imagine a real-world counterpart to this kind of evasiveness? No, I can't either. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 19:53:49 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Jim Subject: Where's op? Message: They always do that. The evasiveness I mean And you know it. I am amazed at your ability to keep on trying to get an answer. but then I am waiting to see if you answer ME about those Garbage lyrics. (I doubt it) I did think that song had something to say and I am so curious what made her or whoever write it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 20:11:09 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Selene Subject: Where's op? Message: Selene, Maybe I'd have to hear the music but I don't get so much from them there lyrics. Mind you, if you heard our band, you'd realize I'm no one to talk. Half my lyrics remain extemporaneous. Even when I bother to write them, I usually forget them and make 'em up anyway. You could see for yourself if you wanted this Saturday night. So garbage in, garbage out, as they say.... OUCH! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 20:27:28 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Jim Subject: Where's op? Message: Mean! It was one of the best sellers here a few years ago. I just ' ass' umed you had heard it. Garbage by Garbage Oh well, as heaven is wide helped me express anger as music can do, as well as soothe, to me the 2 are synonymous. Take care. I am suare I would LOVE to hear your band, if I lived anywhere near someplace that doesn't play the blues all and i do mean all the time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 05:08:43 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jim Subject: Where's op? Message: I remember my last question to her, when she was arguing that the BM doesn't get any money from EV, and I was saying that EV/Visions is giving A LOT of money to premies owned (and very likely rawat's) companies, I was asking her to list me those companies ... I'm still waiting.... Hey OP, why don't you list those companies, I know some of them .... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 16:31:57 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Premie Companies Message: If Maharaji gives premie companies money, does he have to pay taxes on these donations? Yes, why don't the two of you let us in on which companies are owned by premies. I'd be very interested to hear this. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 01:40:52 (EST)
From: Nimrod Email: jfb@netc.net To: VP Subject: Premie Companies Message: The most significant of premie companies is Amtext located in Miami.This is a company that sponsors and trains premies to conduct faculty buying programs of complimentary desk copies of textbooks that are sent out by publishers to teachers at colleges and universities.These books are then shipped to wholesalers,the largest one being MBS Textbook Exchange in Columbia,Missouri,a company that is essentially a warehousing operation for the Barnes and Noble retail book chain. Amtext serves as the middleman,paying the book-buyers and then receiving it's payment from the wholsalers.M has met with the premie book buyers on several occasions over the years to thank them and give them gifts.M has been described at these gathrings as being 'the sole beneficial owner of Amtext,thus being the sole recipient of all its profits' by Chuck Nathan ,who is the top manager of the company on M's behalf.So its not M who really donates anything to this company-its the other way around. Intrestingly enough there are non premie book buyers who also work with Amtext but they are kept in the dark as to what the company is all about and have no idea whose wallet they're fattening.If you are wondering about the source of this information, I am an ex premie book buyer who attended an Amtext gathering at M's Malibu residence in May of 1996.I just discovered this web site earlier this evening.Its only been a few months since I flew over the coockoos nest. It hasn't been easy.I hope this has been informative and I greet you all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 01:54:10 (EST)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Nimrod Subject: Premie Companies Message: Thanks very much for the information, Nimrod - very interesting. I'm quite familiar with MBS, but never knew the link to Amtext. Hope you continue to post. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 01:58:13 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Nimrod Subject: P.S. to Nimrod Message: I just looked at the forum and realized that many of the posts are off-topic, or maybe not relevant to what you're going through right now. I did want to say that it isn't always that way - maybe it's been the holiday weekend or something. Anyway, you are right that it's not easy to 'fly over the cuckoo's nest'. Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 09:14:12 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: VP Subject: Premie Companies Message: These 'premies owned companies' are really owned by straw-men. They of course keep a decent profit for them, but the main person who gets the profit is Mr Prempal Rawat. Someone like Chuck Nathan makes donations (tens of millions a year) to the BM, and I guess the company is also allowed to *donate* money to the 'charities' supporting Mr Rawat's businesses! All these income are of course tax exempted .... such is the law. These guys are the famous *rich premies* supporting the BM! It looks like the US IRS doesn't care much for that kind of *businesses* ..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 15:53:07 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: Everyone Subject: 'music has power to soothe..' Message: Just listened to a classic old cut from the Moody Blues 'Question of Balance' albumn entitled The Balance (last song). You might, excuse the expression, enjoy it. Unless you have already condemned this talented and inspired group of musicians as well. In case I die before I get to post again, the last thing I have to say is: reconsider your relationship with Maharaji with an open and sincere heart, not forfeiting your power of thought, but tempered by love. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 16:36:21 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: shp Subject: 'music has power to soothe..' Message: I prefer Concrete Blonde. Hey, how about Courteney Love? I'll reconsider when you and other premies start posting somethingbesides this drivel. Oh and happy Thanksgiving. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 16:41:24 (EST)
From: Selene the rabid ji Email: None To: Mike Subject: see? I can't resist... Message: sometimes, either. TAke care. Glad you reconsidered about posting. I am having an unusual T day for me. It's just Nick and I hanging out. Nobody else and not a lot of food. So, I checked in. To find this new, albiet not new, thread. ah well... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 20:22:44 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: shp Subject: 'music has power to soothe..' Message: I love the Moody Blues, SHP. Unlike the Big M, they've got something genuine to offer. I think 'A Question Of Balance' is great, but my favorite Moody's album is 'Seventh Sojourn'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 10:55:37 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: shp Subject: 'music has power to soothe..' Message: SHP: I noticed that you didn't claim that any of the Moody's are premies. That's good because their only 'guru' had three initials: L.S.D. Ok, maybe Dr. Tim was in there, too, but he didn't claim to be a guru, either.... he he he. Isn't it amazing how someone can be so 'cosmic' and not have K? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 12:32:45 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: Mike Subject: isn't it amazing... Message: Isn't it amazing how someone can be so 'cosmic' and not have K? >Yes, it is. hohoho. Never doubted it could happen for a minute. I remember a satsang that Maharaji gave wherein he said that some (a very few) people get there on their own. Please don't ask me for the issue and page number, but I think it was in a Divine Times magazine years ago. >If I may utilize some historic information from biblical times without being a drag (and you can verify it with Fadda Mickey), there was this place in the Jerusalem wall called the 'Eye of the Needle'. Pack camels importing and exporting goods in and out of the city would have to completely unpack all their load, get down all their knees, and literally crawl through the portal. Once on the other side, they would get packed up and proceed on their journey. Receiving Knowledge for me was intuitively the same experience that Jesus alluded to in his parable about the 'Eye of the Needle', that one must let go of all his/her baggage to enter the kingdom of heaven within, but once through the portal, one may resume with one's life and have all the baggage, just a modified and enhanced relationship with one's physical existence. In other words, I 'have a life'. Being a premie, I went through that whole phase of denying all past experiences as bogus, but that was a very shallow understanding of what it's about. All my past experiences serve me well, and Knowledge somehow makes it all make sense in a crazy world. You know how you go down a familiar street and for a moment it all seems like a new experience? No 20th century, no national identity, no street names, no geographical grid on your brain for a moment, no time - just you being alive on the earth, sun shining on your face, you having a very cool human body with all these neat sensory pick-ups, with this strand of air moving in and out of you sustaining you - Knowledge reminds me whenever I am conscious enough to be paying attention, that this state I just described is more real than what they are all talking about on the TV and in the paper or at my job or anywhere, and that there is where I want to live and still be able to function here. Knowledge helps me to just that. So this is a little bit about what makes shp tick...and I'm still ticking. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 15:58:14 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: shp Subject: isn't it amazing... Message: Mike said: Isn't it amazing how someone can be so 'cosmic' and not have K? SHP replied: Yes, it is. hohoho. Never doubted it could happen for a minute. I remember a satsang that Maharaji gave wherein he said that some (a very few) people get there on their own. Shp, just how would he know that? What qualifies this statement? Just who are these 'very few' individuals? Why do I get so pissed off when premies AND Maharaji make such unfounded statements? Rrrrrr! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 16:23:42 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: Jerry Subject: isn't it amazing... Message: The essence of what I was trying to communicate is that history has recorded that some people reach a state of inner peace on their own and some have subscribed to a teacher to help them. Can we agree on that? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 20:25:21 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: shp Subject: isn't it amazing... Message: The essence of what I was trying to communicate is that history has recorded that some people reach a state of inner peace on their own and some have subscribed to a teacher to help them. Can we agree on that? Then I would be careful of the statements you use to make a point. In these parts, if they're unqualified, you'll be brought to task for them and could wind up with mud on your face as a result. As for history recording that 'some people reach a state of inner peace on their own and some have subscribed to a teacher to help them', I wouldn't know. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 13:45:26 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jerry Subject: I'd like to know which Message: History book tells of people becoming 'enlightened' or experiencing 'inner peace' on their won. There isn't a single HISTORY book that I know of that contains such foundless information.... Jerry, you were right on the money letting him know that baseless statements (or false statements) get hammered here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 14:24:23 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Mike Subject: Jim's always watching Message: Jerry, you were right on the money letting him know that baseless statements (or false statements) get hammered here. Mike, I've been caught napping on one or two occasions, myself. That kind of feedback is invaluable, though. It teaches you to keep on your toes and don't talk nonsense. THINK about what you say before you say it. Unfortunately, the lesson learned from M is to lead with your heart, then it doesn't matter what you say. Baloney. I wonder what Jim's like in a courtroom. You think he kicks butt? I think so. Either that or he gets thrown out for contempt a lot :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 10:38:38 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: the BIG SHOTS in Europe Message: A premie friend just told me that Raja Ji, Sampuranand and Yoram Weissz are touring in Europe these days, and they'll be in Paris shortly. I guess I might show up there and see what's going on .... I've very seldom seen so many of them traveling together without the BM!!!!!! What's going on? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 11:53:13 (EST)
From: ear Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: the BIG SHOTS in Europe Message: record it on paper or tape. maybe have someone else do it. thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 05:15:27 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: ear Subject: the BIG SHOTS in Europe Message: I'm not sure I'll go there myself, why should I waste so much time listening those BS. I have some spies .... working for me .... I still have a question: given the fact that k is something natural and soooooooo simple, what is this need for those meetings with the BS (Big Shots)? Fund-raising? Buying the new toys for the BM's Xmas? Still cash problems? How come the premies are not dedicated enough, that m doesn't simply live from whatever the premies offer, always so much pressure to give more.... Ah yes, *informing* the premies about the *needs*, did his money account # change? Everybody already knows he needs soooooo much, why don't you leave these premies alone? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 09:36:23 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Just found a new Satguru! Message: Hey guys, Look what I just found! I guess he's the real one, I love his picture ..... The Grandeur, the Brilliance and Refulgence of His Excellency Radhasoami Dayal is unbound and unfathomable. His grace, mercy and bliss can not be described in words. The Supreme Being Radhasoami Dayal bestowed upon this world, in the form of the Guru H.H. Soamiji Maharaj and the Gurumukh H.H. Huzur Maharaj, for liberating the human beings from this transitory cycle of Kal and Maya and to carry them to His Abode. Radhasoami Dayal performed a unique, scientific and systematic form of spiritual love to esatblish Surat-Shabd-Yog and sublime devotion. Innumerable lives got attachment to His Holy feet and thus liberated from agony, grief, sufferings and misery of this transitory world. Thus, the Radhasoami Faith is the true path of salvation and the aim is to liberate people and their Surat from materialism to offer the connectivity to the Supreme Being and Supreme Bliss. Radhasoami is a modern concept of supreme being. It is not a generic and descriptive word. Radhasoami is an enlightened sonic manifestation of the supreme into a normal human - be it a man, woman, child, young, adult or old one. To understand it properly, experience it clearly and believe into meaning, the person needs a true teacher of the present time - 'Waqt Guru'. 'Radhasoami' name is magical and mystical. One has to try it repetitively to search for the 'Waqt Guru'. Radhasoami Dayal decided to reveal Himself to the mankind the grace of Radhasoami. More than hundred centres and thousands of teachers are available today across the five continents to explain the magic. However the true teacher has so far not revealed himself to all, but a few know him now. Our 'Waqt Guru' is Param Purush Puran Dhani Huzur Dadaji Saheb Radhasoami Data Dayal - Dr. Agam Prasad Mathur at Hazuri Bhavan, Pipal Mandi, AGRA, INDIA. Direct Link: The Radhasoami Dayal WebSite Enjoy Your Life (EYL/JSCA) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 10:10:58 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Don't miss any of them Message: Satgurus lovers, seekers of the true enlightened one, kindly visit my links page .... Links to most of the current Satgurus' website Sant Rajinder Singh Sant Thakar Singh Dadaji Saheb Path of the Masters - Sant Mat Unity of Man - Sant Kirpal Singh Manav Utthan Sewa Samiti - Shri Satpalji Maharaj Enjoying Life with Knowledge - Prempal Rawat Thanks God! JSCA EYL Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 11:13:21 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Jean-Michel Subject: Webpage from hell Message: I gave up trying to wander around there, JM. It was one Geocities pop-up after another. Once I had 4 of them open! You have to be VERY devoted to follow that guy evidently :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 11:35:07 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Brian Subject: Webpage from hell Message: I find His presentation quite clear: he doesn't hide behind some 'teaching', this is clearly about 'sublime devotion' ... Why isn't the Rat that clear? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 08:27:52 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The 'Next Master' Fantasy Message: Hi everyone, The topic of this thread bubbled to my mind's surface recently and I thought I'd throw it out here and see what happens, even if, by its sheer nature it reveals the true perverse nature of my ego and my Arien ambition! I also think it might be more relevant to Pepsi Premies like myself (you know GenerationNext) as opposed to a lot of you who are nearer to Maharaji in age and had K from the early days. But I'd be interested in any honest opinions/feelings you may have about it and I also think it will be interesting for any Pepsi Premie lurkers reading this, who I know, if they are/were a committed premie, would also probably have had, at times, this totally strange fantasy. So here goes. While a premie, for about 1% of the time, there would be the odd occasion when I was feeling totally in tune with the Lord's Universe and so full of gushy premie space-cadet detached lurve, that I thought that maybe, just maybe, I could be a candidate for the next Mastership. Aaaaaah! To even just write that, I cannot believe I felt that at the time, but it was true, there were moments when I dreamt of rising the ranks, sitting on The Right Hand of the current Perfect Master, and him turning to me and saying 'Well TD (although he would call me by my real name - which is Xena, BTW) when my holy butt leaves this earth, I would like you to carry on my holy caper'. Now, what does this tell you, my ex-premie associates and very cheap psychologists? Does it tell you more about my delusions of grandeur, my normal premie ambition or my brain defect? I don't know. I do know, however, that I am quite embarrassed to even have written this, but hey, it's better out than in! I also must reiterate that this fantasy DID only occur about 1% of the time, because my 99% normal human behaviour (drinking one beer too many, saying 'Fuck' one too many times, slipping off my baragon one to many mornings, reflecting on my unholy previous premie life for one too many moments) would play havoc with my premie self-esteem (I didn't know about the Big M's cognac and spliff habits then) and that would bring any brief fantasy or premie sense of self worth crashing to the ground. So, please, make me feel like I'm not some sort of lone dysfunctional arrogant tosser (even if you're just polite), and tell me what, if any, your ambitious fantasies were as a premie? For you older ex-premies, was instructor status the 'top goal' in those days, as in age terms, you probably didn't presume you'd outlive the Big M by 20 years. Mind you, M probably didn't talk about the 'next master' as much as he does now as well. One last thing, and maybe it was a symptom of having been more pre-disposed to a spiritual life than a career one - up until recent disallusionment and defection from such folies - I've never really had equivalent fantasies in other spheres of my life (for example, I don't think I really ever fantasised about being a Prime Minister even though I've spent quite a bit of time being active politically/socially) but then again, that profession didn't have such a noble selfless image attached to it which I've always been more attracted to and which doesn't really fit into my 'why are we here?' vicious spiritual cycle. Anyway, I could go on with more self-absorbed self analysis, but enough of me, what about you. What do you think about me? JOKE!! Regards, TD PS. On a lighter note, if I ever was to have stepped on enough little premies on my way to be the Next Master, I'm sure divine guidance would have forced me to change everything (like Maharaji did with DLM, eh Farus/el.org?). My events would not be held in convention centres but at the beach and I might not even bother showing up, but would still send a complimentary acid-jazz band and lots of icy cold beer, and the Knowledge techniques would be 1. putting your thumb and two index fingers around a 'pen' and placing it on a piece of paper for 15 minutes and seeing and analysing what words come out (and no drawing white donuts!) 2. how to put some headphones on your head and listen to your favourite CD really loud without suffering from middle ear damage 3. how to let thoughts come in, get themselves comfy and stay as long as they like, and bugger your breath 4. how to open a bottle of wine without breaking the cork and then drinking any nectar you find inside. Do you think numbers of my followers would drop off or increase exponentially? I would need this important statistical info so as to carry on the Big M's very popular 'graph' presentations of people with K. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 10:07:20 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: TD Subject: The 'Next Master' Fantasy Message: You are a hoot, TD. I say you'd have quite a following with your techniques/attitude. Xena warrior Guru! WOW Can't say I've ever had that fantasy,When I first saw your thread I thought you meant the fantasy of finding another and better Guru--ie, finding the next master (not being the next Master, for crying out loud, girl!) I had that fantasy a lot in my 20's--I was a veritable Guru shopaholic, checking out Gurus constantly, researching them to see which one would take me faster, better, who would give me the better experience, etc. Most likely I was looking for llove in all the wrong places. After I left Maharaji I still had this stupid fantasy for awhile, that I could find a more ethical Guru out there. The Guru paradigm (or bliss trip) is a pretty hard thing to shake. I surely was pathetic. One friend of mine used to even do a little parody of me, he'd shake his hips and sing like Elvis: 'Gotta find a Guru, a Guru, a G-G-G-G- Guru!' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 11:19:53 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: TD Subject: The 'Next Master' Fantasy Message: That's a healthy fantasy, in my book. I used to love giving satsang and really did want to become an initiator but missed the boat. Glad I did. I think we all want to be the next maste/mistress in some way and do it a whole lot different. At my programs I'd have the remaining Beatles doing a surprise performence of 'Love, love,love' and a reunited Spice Girls singing, 'Too much of Nothin' and various life encancing techniques (not just meditation) would be given free to everybody and everybody would be encouraged to care for each other. It's a kind of post hippie fantasy and when I think about it, that's where I was when I came to Maharaji and DLM in the first place. Er, what happened? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 05:23:34 (EST)
From: hammy the hamster Email: None To: Sir David Subject: The 'Next Master' Fantasy Message: Sounds like an old school balearic rave, circa 1990-92 to me Sir D, although they tended to play The Whole of the Moon by the Waterboys instead of the Beatles. Otherwise spot-on, are you an ole raver or psychic Sir D, or Sid as I've wanted to call you for ages? :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 10:31:49 (EST)
From: Sid (Sir David) Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: hammy the hamster Subject: Spanning four decades Message: I'm spanning four decades, me. Half of me is still in the sixties and still don't believe the Beatles ever broke up. Now I hear a new geberation of singers doing cover versions of my favourites like 'Big Yellow Taxi' and the worst of all, some of the old classics from the sixties are being dubbed onto adverts for BANKS of all things! Believe it or not, I thought the Spice Girls were really something else. What got me was how my 6 & 7 year old daughters worshipped them like I did with the Beatles in the early sixties. The Spice Girls reached their peak last year and finished just where the Beatles were getting into gear. There last live tour before Gerry split was their zenith. They proved they could do it live with a little help from their friends. Even the Beatles admitted by the end of their live gigs that they were playing crap but nobody noticed because of all the screaming. There's not much I don't like if it's good. Even the techno stuff. One day when I'm a bit richer, I want to discover a band and help them take off. I know a band called the Dead Marilyns which is an all girl group plus one transvestite guy and they all dress up as dead Marilyn Monroes. It's a scream and the girl who started the band is a geniusess. I must give her a ring and see what's happening. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 14:43:00 (EST)
From: Laura Email: None To: TD Subject: At his feet Message: I was very ambitious, I wanted to live with BM and sit at his feet. I wanted to be the one who took agya all day long, get me this, get me that. Talk about ambition!I wanted to be his housewife, clean, cook, care for his children, etc. I wasn't interested in marrying him cause he chose Durja Ji first. When I got a little older my ambitions grew - I wanted to be one of his business managers. I had ideas of helping MJ spread his K by letting him know how the real world operated and by cleaning up his act. Ha! Anyway, I kind of like the way you're setting up your cult. Beer, music, beach, wine . . . Where do I sign up? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 18:52:30 (EST)
From: Diz Email: None To: TD Subject: At his feet Message: Hi, TD, NO time to do your post justice, but let me quickly say you made my day, once again. I think your fantasy is wonderful. Much healthier than mine, which was more along Laura's lines (really tells you something about our 'relationship' to MJ, doesn't it, Laura!) Well, I did think about the instructor possibilities. And how that might make me REALLY holy, since I wasn't super good at it as a regular common or garden premie. I did have some insight into how that was pretty sick. Today I had a fantasy of relating to MJ on an equal basis. Of being able to discuss my perceptions and understandings with him, of being heard and given validity. Now that's a really wierd fantasy! Love you, TD. If you ever become career oriented, there's got to be something you can do with that wicked sense of humour and ability to write! Diz Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 19:31:04 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: TD Subject: my feet on his head Message: If you ever become career oriented, there's got to be something you can do with that wicked sense of humour and ability to write! Dittoes here, TD. You're brilliant! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 03:04:22 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Laura Subject: Martyrdom Message: After satsang a few of us brothers, completely blissed out, would be up in our rooms getting ready to go back downstairs to meditate. What'd we talk about? Stopping a bullet intended for Maharaji, of course. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 22:50:49 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: TD Subject: The 'Next Master' Fantasy Message: Dear TD - I never had that fantasy but I love your take on it. You'd get my vote for sure. Love, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 00:30:44 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The 'Next Master' Fantasy Message: Thanks everyone for your replies, and your compliments! My blushing matched my hair! It was nice to hear from some of you that my fantasy is a 'healthy one', but I really think a lot of it has to do with being a Pepsi Premie. I think if I had been older and around in the earlier days, I certainly would have had the M-housemother-by-his-feet fantasy as opposed to the Next Master one. I also think that my fantasy could have been a weird symptom of that absolutely mortifying fear of life without Maharaji in it, and knowing that because of my age, that could be a distinct possibility. I also think that for Pepsi Premies, wondering who will be the Next Master is more of a consideration than it probably was for some of you older premies, and according to Premie Legend, it is (according to the premie tradition bullshit we're handed) passed on to one of the followers. I originally had presumed that it would be one of his kids, until my ex-partner told me that apparently, according to premie gossip, none of the kids were interested in receiving Knowledge (Daya hadn't made an appearance then) and because there were a number of times when M said that it was rare that successive Masters were sons of. I don't even say daughters of, because chick masters seemed to not have had a big representation in the Rhadshoami tradition. Having said all that, however, even in my fantasy, there was no way I was on a par with Maharaji (after all his edited carefully crafted life was PERFECT FROM THE DAY HE WAS BORN!!) and mine obviously wasn't, but as David mentioned, I do think all of us, to some degree, have that desire to be a master/mistress and I desperately believed that the whole world should receive Knowledge and I did want to commit everything to it, so even though I would never be a Maharaji, some deep dark nocturnal part of me would occasionally pop up and say 'go on, you can do it'. I really do think it's probably part of that 'Save the World' complex that has bugged me for most of my life. Regards, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 05:37:08 (EST)
From: hamzen Email: None To: TD Subject: The 'Next Master' Fantasy Message: You can tell I was never an ashram premie, I wanted to help him re-organize everything from scratch, he obviously was so sweet, innocent and naive that he didn't have a clue how to communicate, how else could everyone get to experience the wonders of practising knowledge. He was obviously getting no decent feedback! Brilliant post TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 12:19:09 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: TD Subject: The 'Next Master' Fantasy Message: I never had that particular idea when it came to Maharaji, I think my attitude changed over time. In the beginning, my fantasy was to be part of a large contingent of premies would would help feed and clothe the world, inspiring people to follow Maharaji by our example, and from giving them satsang as we served humanity. Maharaji said stuff like this the first years he was in the West. DUO, WWA and other organizations were set up for that puprose. But then, Maharaji really changed. In the late 70s, Maharaji specifically said that 'service' was only to HIM -- that if you ever did service for anyone else, it wasn't service, and a premie was supposed to serve ONLY Maharaji. And Maharaji openly denigrated getting involved in improving the world or helping humanity as a waste of time, including things like trying to eliminate nuclear weaponse, etc. So much for the humanitarian dream. At the same time ALL our energies went into getting expensive stuff for Maharaji and literelly nothing else. Planes, autos, residences, and whatever the latest gadget he wanted. So, I had to adjust my fantasy to stay a premie. Of course, I thought it was just my lack of understanding that made me feel out of synch with what M was doing, the mechanics of which I was incapable of understanding because he was the incarnation of god and I wasn't. So, for a while, I thought I might be an initiator, and even applied to be one. But as I saw the initiators turned out by M and saw how weird, freaked out and nuts many of them were, I wasn't so sure. Plus they would tell me about Maharaji's 'initiators' training program' in Malibu, which sounded like hell on earth to me. Many of them seemed to be suffering from post traumatic stress disorder from having gone through Maharaji's 'training' which sounded a lot like an attempt to terrify them from even thinking about leaving him. Many became afraid to move, and afraid of themselves. Very afraid that now that the glass had been raised so high, they would shatter into thousand pieces if they slipped up. This is what Maharaji told them, by the way. So, I had to adjust again. But since I was pretty miserable as a premie by that point, propogation wasn't very attractive. I couldn't fake so easily that I was blissed out. Also, as it became more and more obvious from the time I hung around near Maharaji that Maharaji was really more of a greedy pig than any kind of spiritual leader interested in the betterment of human beings, I wasn't attracted to being around him either. So, I just sort of hung on for awhile, practicing knowledge as hard as I could, berrating myself for being so confused. Obviously, I just misunderstood. So, by that point, I think I fantasized that I would just not be noticed. Just live my life and follow M and try to stay out of the way. Then, I fantasized a lot about being OUT of the cult. But I was afraid to leave because of what Maharaji had said would happen to us if we left, and I still believed, somehow, that he was the perfect master. Finally I left, and then I fantasized about what life would have been like if I hadn't wasted 10 years following such a charlatan. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 05:43:39 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: JW Subject: Changing fantasies Message: Your fantasies seem to follow pretty well the 'mood/evolution' of the whole trip, eh - adapting to a point and then thank god, getting you out. I think the premies still in would still have fantasies about climbing the EV ladder and getting closer to MJ in anyway shape or form. My more frequent fantasy, more than that freaky one above, was that I could write a book or make a film/doco etc that could act as a signpost for those thirsty folk out there lost and looking for their perfect master. The ironic thing was that premiedom actually surpressed a lot of my creativity and ambition - so if I'd ever managed to get my thumbs out of my ears long enough to pull something off, the end result would have been absolute pastey crap. I even had a working title, this word that the Big M used to go on and on about. It's kind of the new JSCA, and is Greek for that force in us that seeks fulfillment. My memory/spelling's crap but its something like Entelenechia. I'm sure Bruce/OP could help out with the right word. And yet like my other fantasy, just as I was getting into the power and drama of it all, within a split second, it was gone and any desire to follow it through, and I'd be back to feeling like an inadequate premie. 'Twas a strange life, indeed. Finally I left, and then I fantasized about what life would have been like if I hadn't wasted 10 years following such a charlatan. Reading your post just now, I went 'Fuck. 10 years of your life.' That's about a quarter of your life. Still if it's any consolation, you and a lot of other people on this site have more insight/wisdom about life/spirituality than I've ever come across in any other group - and unfortunately, that's probably cause you've all learnt the hard way. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 12:51:29 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: TD Subject: Having fantasies at all Message: Actually, TD, I really admire you and the other people who spoke up for even being able to consider doing some of the things that you talked about in your fantasies. By the time I got knowledge, any ambition or self-confidence had been pretty well beat out of me (not literally, but with ridicule and put-downs). I didn't think I could do ANYTHING. I didn't even think I could make it in the ashram - I was in awe of the ashram premies. I was terrified of mahatmas and initiators and also of M because I felt so inadequate. I think my biggest fantasy was that of marrying some nice premie guy and having a family. That's all I thought I COULD do. Pretty sad. I still have trouble seeing farther than the end of my own arm, and in believing that I could actually DO something. I think your (and others) ability to even imagine those things while you were premies is an gift, and one that will really help you in life. Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 16:18:41 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Katie Subject: Doing it all Message: Katie, you said: I still have trouble seeing farther than the end of my own arm, and in believing that I could actually DO something. YOU CAN DO ANYTHING!! Sorry to scream and I'm sure you already know this, but I just thought I'd mention it. :) Friends forever, VP Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 17:00:36 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: Katie Subject: Having fantasies at all Message: Actually Katie, you didn't achieve anything less than I or others above cause you didn't have those fantasies. The funny thing I've realised about fantasies is that they actually can be a substitute for doing anything at all! By not having them, you're a lot more realistic with yourself than say me, who would have them and then end up doing bugger all about them, but by thinking about them, I'd delude myself into believing I was actually achieving something. It's a bit like when I was at university, if I was behind in a subject, I would go and photocopy all the chapters I'd missed. Even though I didn't read them, somehow I felt as though I'd done a lot of work, when really I didn't know any more then I had before! Fantasies are weird creatures, and I think there would be a distinction between premies who fantasise and those that have 'goals' within premiedom. There would be a lot who would just dream about being an EV hotshot, and then those who would put in the necessary human steps to achieve that goal. They're the Nike 'Just do it' premies. I'm going to slurp up to you and embarrass you by saying the fact that you have the goddamn sweetest kindest personality, is the biggest achievement - and I'm not fantasising!! love, TD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 19:11:02 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: TD/Katie Subject: Having fantasies at all Message: Amen to that about Katie...and Katie you're smart and gutsy too. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 15:13:58 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Helen, VP, TD Subject: Having fantasies at all Message: Thanks so much you guys (and, VP, you're forgiven for yelling. I have a thick head at times - snicker). I still do think that the ability to have dreams is important, TD, otherwise your goals tend to get set pretty low, as in my post above. But I understand your comment regarding fantasies that aren't grounded. Now, you three guys are really intelligent and very imaginative: how about coming up with possible (paying) careers for me and Brian, who tend to be chronic underacheivers? We are reasonably bright, have different but complementary skills, work well together or separately (most of the time), but don't deal real well with the traditional job structure (freedom and flexible hours needed). Thanks again for all the compliments - I really appreciate them. Y'all are great and I am SO glad you are on the forum. Love, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 20:02:29 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Katie Subject: Having fantasies at all Message: I'm going to give the career idea some thought. Seriously now, my hubby does career assessments--I'll pick his brain Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 22:03:43 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Helen Subject: Having fantasies at all Message: Thank you, Helen. You can e-mail me for further details (especially about myself, I mean). We WILL be in the DC area one of these days, and maybe we can talk to you and your husband face to face. Love, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 22:33:13 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Katie Subject: Having fantasies at all Message: You know we'd love that. COme on over for dinner. By then I'll have my new doggie (: Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 23:15:24 (EST)
From: AE Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Guaranteed pulling method Message: So how do guys get the most beautiful women into bed? Just read how to get a good woman and it will all become clear to you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 23:31:46 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: AE Subject: Guaranteed pulling method Message: hey guy, Hilarious, i love the whole thing, I meant to tell you, but was out of town a bit. BTW, the pictures come up kinda grainy on my machine, not that I mind. The content really tickles me, good job and glad you're ok. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 20:06:04 (EST)
From: AE Email: None To: gerry Subject: yes gerry Message: I just checked the pictures on a newer machine and they are grainy. I'll put the original Jpeg pictures up instead now I know. Thanks for letting me know. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 00:27:22 (EST)
From: A beautiful woman Email: None To: AE Subject: Guaranteed pulling method Message: You pulled me into your article. So, what is 'thronging to get into bed' and 'no-knock effect?' I doubt it, but perhaps I've been missing something. I got thrown off your homepage twice, my carrier or problems with your page? P.S. I enjoyed your spread (oops!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 11:00:12 (EST)
From: Maharaji Email: god@malibures.com To: A beautiful woman Subject: Hey beautiful woman Message: Sorry to hear you had problems at my web site. Why don't you come and do some service at my divine residence and I'll give you some hands on web tuition. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 14:23:52 (EST)
From: A beautiful woman Email: None To: Maharaji Subject: Hey beautiful woman Message: Yes Maharaji, I experienced terrible problems at your web site. I have already done much service at your not-so-divine residence and you never gave me hands on anything Maharaji. What you did give me has caused me a lot of grief. Not the knowledge part, but the rest of your story line. I'm glad to say that after the time i give you now in order to release you from my life, i hope i will never think of you again. If you want hands on maharaji, use your own. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 21:28:11 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: AE Subject: Guaranteed pulling method Message: I have gone on about this before, but I am telling you, it's the suits, the expensive suits!!! I see that here in DC...I lurk about at intermission at the opera observing and this is what I see--Short, fat, bald men in their 50's with gorgeous trophy wives (2nd wives, no doubt cause they are so much younger). Power & money are strong aphrodesiacs in this town. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 22:46:01 (EST)
From: g Email: gmj1210@aol.com To: Everyone Subject: lucky Message: Well, I'm sure it won't take long for anyone to figure out I'm a premie - still. I've read some posts here, and it is so unfortunate that so many people had the bad experiences that caused this web-site. All I know is: I have had this experience for the last 18 years and it is very precious to me. I have battled different obstacles and had my share of ups and downs - who hasn't? But I know one thing certainly - I have experienced the clarity Maharaji speaks of for myself. I have felt that joy in my life and I am very grateful for it. I understand some of the posts, but others I find a little confusing. For instance, my wife and I with our two children sometimes felt like second-class premies - but not from Maharaji - from other premies! I know many here criticize the closing of the ashrams for various reasons - but frankly, after he did so I never felt like a second-class premie again. Just my experience. On the subject of children - my wife and I have a very wonderful relationship with each other and with our kids. I never felt Maharaji expected me to give up my kids or distance myself from them. I have priorities in my life. This experience is one of them. But that experience has only led me to a greater appreciation of my kids and the fact that we are only here and only together for a limited time. It is obvious that people here experienced a lot of pain, but isn't it possible that that pain was caused by confused premies and mahatmas and not by Maharaji. I don't espouse that Maharaji is without the ability to make a mistake. But he teaches a pure thing. And it is clear to me that he cares. If your experience is different I respect that. But for me - I consider myself fortunate to have this Knowledge and this life, and I am thankful that the experience I have is real. If anyone cares to talk - feel free to e-mail me. I'm not here to judge anyone else, or convert anyone. Just thought I should share my experience for what it might be worth. Whatever you are doing, I really do hope that you're enjoying your lives. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 00:41:37 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: g Subject: lucky Message: Personally, I am sick of reading this phrase, 'enjoying your lives' or 'enjoy your life' etc. It's ridiculous. Can't premies think of something original to say? And what is this obsession for enjoying your life? It is self obsession almost to the point of selfishness. My mother isn't enjoying her life much since she is crippled and wheelchair bound. But she makes the best of a bad deal and is cheerful despite her suffering. I do not worry about enjoying my life. I just get on with it. I think an obsession with enjoying your life is unhealthy and liable to restrict and isolate people. Now this is not meant to be insulting but I just prefer to call a spade a spade. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 03:47:02 (EST)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Sir David Subject: lucky Message: Couldn't agree more Sir D. It's like everything about the creep, pretty anal I reckon. I've got this picture of myself, very young, sitting on a beach with this inane grin on my face.Me mum takes a photo comes over to see me, reacts in horror, am I making sandcastles with sand from the beach, oh no, I've done another big dump and I'm sculpting it and I'm in bliss. Enjoying life indeed! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 09:53:39 (EST)
From: shp (lower case, humble) Email: None To: Sir David Subject: lucky Message: You said: Can't premies think of something original to say? Message/Reprint: THE COSMIC CAFE featuring the satiric stylings of SHP for your Holiday pleasure - no cover, no minimum Hey all you turkeys, aren't ya glad Maharaji and most of the premies are mainly vegetarians, or they would have just EATEN YOU at Thanksgiving when you stopped practicing! (Rimshot) OK, so there's this guy Moses shlepping these two stone tablets down a frigging mountainside with words carved in them, telling all the assembled flock that he's got these commandments from God they all need to follow now...yeah right. A little circle of yentas in the back mumble 'Isn't he the guy who used to be a prince of Egypt and killed an Egyptian taskmaster...and now he's a messenger from God? I should live so long...my nephew Sheldon in Phonecia could do a better job...and besides that, Moses has such a lisp! His brother Aaron has to speak for him...out of 600,000 Israelites, I am supposed to believe that God Almighty, the maker of heaven and earth, picked a shmuck with a lisp to lead his children out of the land of bondage? He's nothing but a con artist shmo with a big ego!' (Rimshot) Oh yeah, there's another little group of yentas hanging near Jesus who is walking around the Mediterranean coastal area sniping at him: 'Tough life, eh J? Too bad you didn't make it to the Riviera, you mighta never come back...telling everyone to drop everything and follow you, hocking about something about the kingdom of God is within you.....Let me get this straight: while you are getting housed and fed like a king by your rich friends and supporters which you conveniently cultivate along your route to pad your goatskins, all the poor idiots who have travelled far to hear you are waiting to hear about something they can't see, smell, taste, touch or hear with human senses - are sleeping on the frigging ground!' (Rimshot) Did you hear the one about the 'Lord's prayer'...now he's telling his followers how to pray, word-for-word...what's that about? What happens if you get a word wrong, do ya you to hell or something, and the devil corrects your syntax, you shovel charcoal for awhile and then you get another try? So while Jesus is running around 'saving known prostitutes, he's making his sheep go and memorize the words to a prayer that he calls the 'Lord's prayer'...so if it's his prayer why doesn't he say it and leave us the hell alone? (Chuckle/Rimshot) Did you hear about the one where one of Jesus' inner circle bitched at the 'Son of Man' (what kind of name is that??) about some expensive oil that somebody poured on his feet...and this 'apostle' (another frigging title) goes on about how the oil could have been sold to feed the poor...then Master J goes, 'You'll always have the poor with you, but you won't always have me with you'. Thank God! Then this same follower, Judas was his name, rats on his 'Lord' and then goes and hangs himself! (Rimshot) The yentas continue: 'And to top it off, the guy gets himself crucified! And he even dropped his cross 3 times. Now I ask you is that the Son of God? We are supposed to believe that Almighty God, maker of heaven and earth, first sends a murdering scumbag with a lisp to save the children of Israel from slavery, then God sends an unemployed whore-loving carpenter to reveal the kingdom of God within. And get this...then some of his ass-kissers hallucinate and think they see him after he has been dead a few days. He must have put some pretty strong drugs into those fishes and loaves he fed everyone...and that wine and bread thing being his body and blood...I am going to puke!' (hey Gerry that was for you, I can see you in the audience...let;s do lunch!) (Rimshot) Thank you very much ladies and gentlemen...and have a Happy and healthy Thanksgiving, and remember, drive safely on the information superhighway this holiday season. The Master you hit may be your own.(Spotlight off, travelling music, curtain close) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 10:53:58 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: shp (lower case, humble) Subject: Ohmygod! - shp Message: shp, I'm so sorry that you think your little exercise is original. I am SO sorry. I am speechless, that's how sorry I am. I am .. (after a few breaths, a warm reboot if you will) shp, You are the most naive guy I've ever met. You actually live in a children's book of bible stories. Worse, you THINK you've got some original thought processes happening. You're like someone bringing some Mogen David and Velveeta to a wine and cheese party. That's not wine and that's not cheese. They don't count. Your thoughts don't count. They're just too low on the graph. They're off the graph. Try again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 14:20:02 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Ohmygod! - jim Message: You wanted original, you got original. You don't like it, ok. There are more than myths recorded in my post. And actually, there is nothing original in this world anyway. It's all been said before. Ask Father Mickey for biblical references. As for Velveeta and Mogen David, you know what? I just got back from helping to serve a bunch of homeless folks Thanksgiving dinner and nobody criticized the fare. You are spoiled. 'Better to eat a crust of bread with those we love alive, Than drink the blood of a rich (intellectual) feast spread And guiltily survive.' Seek professional help. You are carrying more anger and resentment than is healthy for one person to carry. You deny truth and common sense and factual information just because it came from someone who doesn't share your (dis)beliefs about M. And like Voltaire, I will disagree to the death your point of view But will defend your right to express it. As for Thanksgiving, we both have much to be thankful for, cynicsm aside, so I hope your mind (sic), or is it (sic) mind gives you a respite today. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 18:58:16 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: shp Subject: shp - defender of free speech Message: And like Voltaire, I will disagree to the death your point of view But will defend your right to express it. Let's forget the other issues for a moment. Tell me, shp, what you've done so far to protest the censorship on ELK. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 05:52:38 (EST)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Jim Subject: Ohmygod! - shp Message: And fucking boring too. And very anal, all those rimshots. By the way sht, I'm vegan and if all those sincere premies meant it, they would be too. If you're going to do something, do it properly. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 00:53:14 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: g Subject: lucky Message: g wrote: 'But he teaches a pure thing. And it is clear to me that he cares.' I am curious: what is this pure thing that he teaches? It seems to me that he is teaching a mixture of subservience and a technique which is not as unique as he claims. What proof do you have that he cares? All the years I spent in the cult, there was not one instance of actual caring shown by M. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 09:52:18 (EST)
From: g Email: gmj1210@aol To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: lucky Message: What's all the 'hype' about enjoying life? Let's see, my father died before he was sixty - as he was dying he told me I should make every effort to enjoy every moment I could - and he was NOT a premie. My brother died before he was thirty. He made a lot of effort to insure that I enjoyed my life - and he was NOT a premie. My grandmother died a year and a half ago - I spent a lot of time with her before she died - and you know what her constant advice was? Enjoy your life - appreciate it. And she was NOT a premie. Gosh! I can't imagine why anyone would want to enjoy this life - what a horrible way to spend it. I'm sure I would be much better off 'just getting on with it.' Maharaji gives me the same advice. You know what: I think I'll take it. So now a question which begs to be asked: Why did any of you follow Maharaji in the first place? My understanding was pretty clear - have an experience first - then believe. Or did you just jump right in to the belief part? believing because someone told you you should? If you had an experience first then how is it you deny it now? If you didn't, you had no business asking for Knowledge. For myself the experience was profound and undeniable. It still is. I guess what I find most interesting is that I posted in good faith and without judgment - really. And I came back expecting somewhat that people would disagree with me on some issues, but at least would do it in something resembling a civilized manner. You just attack. And that makes me question this whole thing even more. So - attack this: your lives were a mess - take some personal responsibility. It's so easy to blame someone else for the choices YOU MADE. 'Oh oh - it's all Maharaji's fault.' Maybe you just didn't WANT to think for yourselves so you put him in the place of doing it for you and then you were upset with the results. What did you expect? Personally, I never got the message that he wanted to do my thinking for me. I got: 'make your choices, do this for yourself - not for me!' That's what I've done and it works. I make my choices and I have accepted the responsibility. Sometimes they're good - sometimes bad. But I don't spend my time bad-mouthing some other person for my mistakes. You left your kid? You gave more money than you could afford? You quit your job? You did some other stupid stuff? Well, buck up and figure out that YOU did it. And if you let someone else do it to you without the benefit of any real personal experience then you were just like the millions of other religious fanatics. If you didn't have an experience you made your choice in ignorance. Too bad, but not exactly Maharaji's fault, is it? If you did have a genuine experience, I feel sorry for you that you turned your back on it. For years I was struggling to get by - and I never gave a cent to Maharaji. I was busy putting food on the table and keeping a roof over our head. That was the choice I made - and I never felt guilty about it and Maharaji certainly never made me feel guilty about it - it was the practical thing to do. Now I am enjoying a good salary and do contribute a small amount. No one asked. No one begged. No one made me feel guilty. I do it because I WANT to - and because I know what this Knowledge has done for me. I'm not asking you to agree or to accept - just be civil about it. I'm not an enemy - I'm just a person like you. You can disagree without being nasty about it. In light of the responses to my post, and the other posts I have read, however, it seems clear that that is what a significant portion of those expressing themselves want - a forum to be vindictive and hateful and where they can wallow in their common misery. Certainly, this is much more productive than the 'enjoying life' message you seem to have such a problem with. I am friends with people who no longer practice Knowledge - but they don't find it necessary to demean or degrade Maharaji, Knowledge, or those who still practice. It just wasn't for them. And we get along very well. My initial post was in light of the fact that it was the day before Thanksgiving, and I am thankful. Is it ok if I say: I hope that you have something to be thankful for - whatever it is - and that you spend the day appreciating it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 11:32:44 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: g Subject: lucky Message: g I really don't want to attack you. Honestly. I'm pained to let you know that, by the way. Christ, it is a drag when there's little common ground between premies and ex's. (Time to call in Katie!). While we're waiting for Katie to show up, though, I'll try to respond respectifully to your essential question: Why did any of you follow Maharaji in the first place? When I got k I was 19. I was interested in all sorts of stuff, the normal Be Here Now grab bag of Indian trinkets but also astrology, Primal Therapy (I'd pined for a chance to get accepted at Janov's institute in L.A. but was too young they told me) and many less ambitious interests (SEX!!!). Oh yeah, I liked to play music and no, I didn't wnat to get a permanent job. Did I say sex? Yes, that too. Maharaji came to the west with a flourish. Remember that picture in Time of Maharaji stepping of a plane completely covered with garlands? I do. Anyway, Maharaji TOLD me that there was something I was missing. He backed this up with HIS grab bag from different religinos and such. If I wnated an 'experience' it was essentially becuase he told me there was one to be had. So, the first thing you have to get straight is that I was doing nothing but responding to his sales pitch. It's really simple: by the time I'd received knowledge I'd already a) accepted Maharaji as my master and dedicated my life to him (as required); b) bought in to everything he said and trained myself to dismiss and discount all doubts; c) learned to reject my own analyitcal abilities as a means of knowing anything significant about life. This is called cult indoctrination. Now, what else do you want to talk about? You want to talk about how Maharaji has never had the courage to finishthe discussion he started with me 25 years ago? How his own brother told me that Maharaji wouldn't even talk with him about a single challenging issue? How Maharaji has lied about and denied his very own word again and again? (If you want to take issue withthat, please save me the trouble and go to JM's site and read throguh Maharaji's old quotes. End of story.) What WOULD you like to talk about? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 15:15:57 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: g Subject: Don't Be Insulting Message: My understanding was pretty clear - have an experience first - then believe. Or did you just jump right in to the belief part? believing because someone told you you should? If you had an experience first then how is it you deny it now? If you didn't, you had no business asking for Knowledge. For myself the experience was profound and undeniable. It still is. I know Maharaji says this, but this wasn't really true and it still isn't, from what I can tell. Before I received knowledge, I had to say that I dedicated my life to him. Moreoever, Maharaji repeatedly said to NEVER doubt, in fact that was a COMMANDMENT of his and that faith was necessary to have the experience he offered. So, that was a recipie for indoctrination, discounting your own experience if it didn't fit with what he said it was, and repressing your own ability to evaluate the experience. You will hear LOTS of ex-premies say this. It's a very common theme. When I stopped believing in M, stopped having faith in him, I stopped having that 'devotional' experience. I still had an experience in meditation, I just realized it had nothing to do with him. And when I stopped being a premie, my life improved immensely, because I no longer had the burden of M's simplistic and draconian philosophy that my own mind was the problem and out to get me. Still, when I was a premie I thought I was happy and spoke much the way you do now. It took being away from it to see what a sham it was, for me at least. You may perceive this as an 'attack' but that's not in any sense the way I mean it to be. . So - attack this: your lives were a mess - take some personal responsibility. It's so easy to blame someone else for the choices YOU MADE. 'Oh oh - it's all Maharaji's fault.' Maybe you just didn't WANT to think for yourselves so you put him in the place of doing it for you and then you were upset with the results. Who isn't taking personal responsiblity? Are you? No, I HAVE taken responsiblity for my life, that's how I got out of Maharaji's cult. It was out of self-respect and self preservation, not because I was blaming anyone for anything. I HAVE taken responsibility, it's Maharaji who has failed, utterly failed, to even admit that anyone got hurt in his cult, let alone admit any mistake whatsoever, or take any responsility for it. That's what makes him such a charlatan. I'm willing to take responsiblity for my actions -- it's Maharaji who willing to take responsiblity for his, except to the extent he takes credit. Look, I hated living in M's ashram for 10 years being poor and celibate, but I ONLY stayed because I believed M was the incarnation of god, as he portrayed himself to be, and I heard him say with my own ears that you shouldn't even consider leaving, and if you did awful things would happen to you, just like he threatened us if we stopped practicing knowledge. Moreoever, he told us NEVER to doubt, to constantly meditate, that we should reject our families and surrender and dedicate 100% to HIM. Now, tell me, doesn't that sound an awful lot like you aren't supposed to think for yourself? That critical thinking isn't supposed to be happening?. Yes, part of the responsiblity I take is that I really screwd up in having faith in M and taking literally what he said. But then, again, Maharaji just pretends like he never said that stuff, never portrayed himself to be the incarnation of god, and just stonewalls. That, to me, is evidence of a dishonest person with no integrity. That, on top of discovering that the nice experiences I had as a premie had nothing to do with him, make it all pretty clear to me. Of course, now we discover that while he was telling us to be celibated he was screwing around with women right and left, to the point of having his own mistress who even posts cute sayings on the enjoyinglife site. Doesn't get any weirder than that! I am not 'bad-mouthing' anyone for my mistakes. I partly post here because I think it's important for people to hear both sides of the story. There are thousands of ex-premies who think M is a fraud, for various reasons and while many of them, including me, say we had many nice experiences, met lots of wonderful people, and often had fun, we have discovered that the nice experiences really had nothing to do with Maharaji. They were due to my own faith, to my sincere desire to to open to the truth, from a 'group high' at programs, and from a powerful desire for it all to be true. I think it's important for people to know that and make up their own minds. Nothing wrong with that, right? By the way, it's REALLY insulting to just say that ex-premies are just blaming M for their own mistakes. You don't know any of us and can't judge. Shame on you. Funny thing about 'accepting responsiblity.' In the premie world I lived in that meant giving M credit for every positive thing that ever happened to me, and blaming MYSELF, my lack of understanding, my confusion, my lack of dedication, for everything bad that happened to me, or just for the fact that I was pretty miserable as a premie. That's NOT taking responsiliby, that's being a programmed cult member, who can't even evaluate whether he is having a nice experience or not. That's what I had to get out of before my life really improved. And it did. I am MUCH happier since I stopped following M than I ever was when I followed him. I don't make any attempt to judge you subjective experience. I can just tell you mine, which I hope you would respect and not just call it 'sour grapes.' That's really unfair and beneath you. Oh, and by the way, it WASN'T 'the premies' who caused the problems. By and large the premies just repeated what M said, they didn't just make it up. So, that's a straw man argument. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 16:36:44 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: g Subject: Mutual Understanding Message: Dear G - Here's my answer to some of the questions you asked in your second post. I am sorry that you met with hostility and attacks here, but there are people here who are hurt and angry, and some of your statements bring up that hurt and anger. I do appreciate that you have friends that are ex-premies - I don't think that a lot of premies would, and to me that shows that you are more open minded than many premies who post on here. So I hope you can listen to what I have to say. I will probably reiterate many of the points that JW made - I thought his post was good. I believe that you've had an experience with both Maharaji and knowledge - the point of this forum is that many of us did not have that experience. Some of us (not me) had a good experience with knowledge and not Maharaji. There are a lot of premies or ex-premies out there in the same boat, and we are trying to be there for them. As Joe says, we are trying to tell the other side of the story. You wrote: So now a question which begs to be asked: Why did any of you follow Maharaji in the first place? My understanding was pretty clear - have an experience first - then believe. Or did you just jump right in to the belief part? believing because someone told you you should? If you had an experience first then how is it you deny it now? If you didn't, you had no business asking for Knowledge. I take it, from your post, that you received knowledge in 1980. I received knowledge in 1972. We were not told that we needed to have any kind of 'experience' before asking for knowledge - what was asked for was a sincere desire to know the truth, a willingness to practice knowledge, and a willingness to dedicate our lives to Maharaji. I DID jump right into the belief part, because that's what everyone was doing then. The premies I heard satsang from told me that Maharaji was the living incarnation of God and that receiving and practicing knowledge would solve all my problems. Maharaji himself also said both of these things in his satsang. I did sincerely believe that, and thus the mahatma gave me knowledge. You also said: So - attack this: your lives were a mess - take some personal responsibility. It's so easy to blame someone else for the choices YOU MADE. 'Oh oh - it's all Maharaji's fault.' Maybe you just didn't WANT to think for yourselves so you put him in the place of doing it for you and then you were upset with the results. What did you expect? Again, your experience is probably different from mine because you got knowledge later. Regarding personal responsibility: we were told to 'never leave room for doubt in our minds' (Maharaji OFTEN said this), and to surrender the reins of our life to him (he often said this too). I did have doubts and questions and felt very guilty about that. When I finally was unhappy enough to take responsibility for my own life, I left. It wasn't easy, because I had believed that Maharaji was the living incarnation of god, and I thought I would go crazy (you can read what he said about not practicing knowledge in my post entitled 'Rotten vegetables' below. If you cannot find it, I'll reprint it for you.) I do think taking responsibility for your own life and actions is important. It isn't easy, but I have gotten better at it since I've gotten older (I was 16 when I received knowledge). My point is that taking responsibility for your own life was DISCOURAGED by Maharaji, at least during the time that I was involved. If he's not saying this anymore, then great. But what about the people who he did say it to, who followed his direction because they believed he was god, and who did things like (as you put it) You left your kid? You gave more money than you could afford? You quit your job? You did some other stupid stuff?. I do think they have a right to say 'Hey, I did this because Mahraji told me too and I believed he was god.' Obviously we have to take responsibility for believing that Maharaji was god in the first place. But I think Maharaji needs to take responsibility for HIS part in it as well. We were asked by him to put him FIRST in out lives. He promoted the idea, he let other premies and mahatmas promote it, he had darshan lines where we kissed his feet, we sang devotional songs to him, and so on and so forth. WHY would he do that if he didn't want to be seen as the incarnation of god? I just don't believe that he was forced to do that by the premies and mahatmas - if that's true, then MAHARAJI isn't taking any responsibility for HIS life either. You also said: And if you let someone else do it to you without the benefit of any real personal experience then you were just like the millions of other religious fanatics. If you didn't have an experience you made your choice in ignorance. Too bad, but not exactly Maharaji's fault, is it? Well, I guess I was a religious fanatic. I did believe what Maharaji and the other people around him said, and I didn't have much personal experience. I hung on for years IN HOPES of having the personal experience that Maharaji and everyone else talked about. It was not supposed to happen instantly, so I believed that it would come when I finally did enough to deserve it. Well, I never did, so I never experienced anything. G, I really want to communicate something to you here: maybe a little bit of what it was like to be a premie during the seventies, and how some of us felt back then, and how some people may feel even now. I hope you can hear me. I hope you have a good holiday. I'm not big on Thanksgiving (I had a bizarre family too), but it sounds like you still like it. I do have a lot of things to be thankful for: my life, my husband, my cats, my friends on and off the forum, the forum and website itself (thank you, Brian), and too much more to mention. I'm sure you do too. Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 00:51:59 (EST)
From: g Email: gmj1210@aol To: Katie Subject: Mutual Understanding Message: Katie - Thanks for the first response which sought to explain rather than attack. I appreciate much of what you say. Yes my wife and I received Knowledge in 1981 - and we saw 'Satguru Has Come' and sang Arti and had darshan - saw Maharaji in his mala and crown. I know all about the Lord of the Universe song and the residual goings on. I was not there in the 70's obviously. But before God Almighty (whatever you hold that to be) I swear that I had tangible experiences of Knowledge long before I asked for Knowledge and that was why I asked for Knowledge in the first place. People here claim it has nothing to do with Maharaji, and yet I didn't have these experiences with any of the other paths I followed. Why? I am not here to say Maharaji is God. Or that he is incapable of error. I frankly don't know whether he is or not. But I know this - he has on more than one occasion addressed specific issues in specific language with related to specific situations in my life. How? And I am NOT talking vague generalities - I do know the difference. If you got nothing out of it I understand. And Maharaji himself - I've heard these words over and over - said if you don't like it - don't do it. That seems pretty simple. Yes, I believe Maharaji (like everyone) must accept responsibility for his actions. But I also believe that perhaps the changes people saw in the 80's may have been his way of dealing with that. Again - I'm not saying it was a perfect way - I'm just saying that it went a long way to avoiding many of the objections people here seem to have. When I received Knowledge it was clear to me that many people had differing views regarding who or what Maharaji was/is. No one said to me, if you don't believe Maharaji is God - move along. I respect your experience - and I am sorry that you did not find what you were looking for. But I did. I just wanted to find out what was behind this website, because my experience is obviously so different. Perhaps I have done some over-reacting myself - so it is probably best if I don't post here any more. I really didn't come to offend anyone. And I find that my posts just antagonize - not my purpose or desire. So, I hope that alleviates everyone's need to pick apart the posts I have made. Just thought some honest give and take might be interesting. For the record - I do not consider myself to be superior. I do consider myself fortunate. I have never told anyone that this is the only way - but it has turned out to be the way for me. I understand anger and hurt and frustration - I have experienced them myself. But I also know what my experience is - and I am thankful for it. You can question any of my words - and none of you know me, so that wouldn't be hard anyway - but I know what i know. I just wanted to hear your experiences. So - thanks for the honest and gentle response - I sincerely appreciate it. I got what i came for - so now I guess it's time to move on before I disturb the waters any further. Thanks for your time. Whether or not anyone here appreciates it - i really do wish you the best in all things - most of all that your life is filled with whatever brings you happiness. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 01:10:12 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: g Subject: Cut to the chase, g Message: Yes, I believe Maharaji (like everyone) must accept responsibility for his actions. I notice that you still hide behind our so-called 'aggression' in order to avoid our points. And after my trying to be nice and everything. Okay, let's get real. You've said the above. Anonymously. I DARE YOU TO SIGN YOUR REAL NAME TO THIS COMMENT. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 10:24:31 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: g Subject: Ultimate Arrogance Message: But before God Almighty (whatever you hold that to be) I swear that I had tangible experiences of Knowledge long before I asked for Knowledge and that was why I asked for Knowledge in the first place. I received knowledge in 1973 and was a premie until 1983. I think I know what you are saying, but it isn't what Maharaji and his Mahatmas preached, at least while I was involved. I have personally heard Maharaji say that 'Knolwedge' is the experience you get, when you do 'satsang, service and meditation.' You can't experience it otherwise. So, until you receive knowledge, according to Maharaji, you can't have the experience. I particularly recall being in charge of aspirant programs in one community and working with the aspirants for a number of months. Then, when Mahatma Padarthanad arrive in the community to do the knowledge selection he asked the aspirants if they thought they had ever had an experience of Knowledge. A couple of people said yes. He really set them 'straight,' saying that was impossible without satsang, service and meditation. According to Padarthand, so far, these aspirants had only had the experience of 'satsang' and hence hadn't had the experience of Knowledge. Frankly, I think the fact that you experienced the same thing before knowledge that you experience after is evidence that 'receiving knowledge' is not the critical event. The same was true for me. The critical event is having faith and belief which got drilled into me in the aspirant process. That's where the experience comes from, not from the meditation techniques or listening to Maharaji. All they do is reinforce the faith and belief. This, at least, is what I have discovered, the hard way, through trial and error. And I realize it is almost impossible to see while you are involved. And these days of 'knowledge-lite' Maharaji seems to demand so much less from premies, that I can see it's just a lot easier to remain tacitly a premie. It doesn't cost nearly as much as it used to, in the days of '100% total dedication and surrender.' But, frankly, if M was doing in the 70s what he is doing now, I wouldn't have been the least bit interested in his current, 'new- age- video-meditation-religion' he is now offering. I think that's why he gets almost no new recruits in the West, and is losing the current premies in droves. If he stops doing programs and just does satellite transmissions, I agree with Selene that the cult in the West, will really collapse, even more than it has because I think it's the program 'group high' that holds it together for many premies.. Yes, I believe Maharaji (like everyone) must accept responsibility for his actions. But I also believe that perhaps the changes people saw in the 80's may have been his way of dealing with that. Good for you, chr, you are about the first premie I have seen who thinks M must accept responsiblity for any error, whatsoever. I know many premies THINK that, but they don't dare say it out loud. But it's pretty inadequate to make some changes, pretty superficial ones if you ask me, without any affirmative mention that anything went wrong, or showing any concern or compassion for people who believed the untruths he preached. In fact, from what I can see, he STILL is just saying everything was just perfect, for everyone for his entire incarnation on earth. That is bullshit and the ultimate in arrogance. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 17:41:10 (EST)
From: g Email: gmj1210@aol To: JW Subject: Ultimate Arrogance Message: I appreciate what you are saying - I told Katie I probably wouldn't post any more because I really don't like aggravating people and it wasn't my intention. But your post was really thoughtful and I appreciated receiving some information without receiving aggression. Maybe I was in some bizarre fringe element of the premie movement - I didn't think so. But I was always told that it was possible to have an experience first - I did - and well, you know the rest. I understand your concerns. And I understand why people are hurt. But there are some attacks here that seem unfounded and way out of line with my personal experience. I lived with several alcoholics. I have a hard time believing that Maharaji is one frankly. I never saw a single alcoholic that could maintain anything close to the clarity I've experienced listening to him. So I've already taken more time than I expected. But I did want to say thanks - I appreciate it. Keep in touch by e=mail if you like. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 19:57:34 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: g Subject: Ex-Premie Behavior Message: I think you have to realize that people are all different and express themselves in different ways. Some ex-premies get driven nuts by what premies say, especially when they say that ALL ex-premies are just bitter, irresponsible people and that they never really had 'the experience.' I have also seen premies come on this forum and be really viscious and nasty as well. That's just human nature because people are different. I think you will find that ex-premies are individuals, the only thing they have in common is that they were once involved with Maharaji and don't want to be anymore. Maybe also, they are trying to understand better what happened to them and why. g, being a premie, and following knowledge in at least one sense, is like anything else. If it doesn't work for someone, but they really didn't sacrifice much to be involved, they might not see any real harm, go on their way and forget it. But there are thousands of premies who gave their WHOLE LIVES to Maharaji and did so because they believed he was god. So, for them, if they find knowledge doesn't work for them, it's harder just to chock it up to experience and move on, especially if M is tacitly saying, 'oh yeah, I really wasn't the lord of the universe, the ashrams were just some kind of experiment that I'm not into anymore, etc.' That's pretty hard to accept. For me, at least, being a devotee of Maharaji was VERY expensive, in a lot of ways. So, not only was the nice experiences I had not worth it, it was damaging. So, it's harder to accept some of the things you said about 'just move on' and 'take responsbility', etc. So, I hope you can understand from that where some of us are coming from, that we're not just 'aggressive' for the hell of it, etc., Honestly, I disagree with some of the ways some of the ex-premies relate to premies, but I don't feel in any position to tell them to act any differently because I feel like that's what they need to do. And, in may ways, this forum is a support group for a number of people, especially premies who are just deciding they don't want to be premies anymore and need support. And there have been quite a number of them who have shown up here over the months. I don't know if Maharaji is an alcoholic. I have heard, since 1974, that he had a drinking problem, and certainly Mishler said he did. I am also personal friends with a woman who was his personal lawyer until about 10 years ago, and she told me he DID have a drinking problem and also was having affairs outside his marriage. By about 1987, she was really disgusted and left. So, I haven't seen any of this personally, but she is someone I respect enormously, so if she said it, I think it's probabaly true. I have no idea if he STILL has a problem. Maybe he has gotten some help. Can you imagine: 'My name is Prem Pal Singh Rawat and I am an alcoholic.' Somehow I can't see it.:) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 13:48:42 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: JW Subject: Ex-Premie Behavior Message: You said: I am also personal friends with a woman who was his personal lawyer until about 10 years ago, and she told me he DID have a drinking problem and also was having affairs outside his marriage. By about 1987, she was really disgusted and left. So, I haven't seen any of this personally, but she is someone I respect enormously, so if she said it, I think it's probabaly true. I say: have youever heard of attorney-client privilege? i sure wouldn't want her to be my attorney, if she talks about her client's private business with friends. due to her unprofessionalsim, i would quesion her integrity and truthfulness in general, friend or not. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 14:31:35 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: shp Subject: Pretty lame, shp Message: I say: have youever heard of attorney-client privilege? i sure wouldn't want her to be my attorney, if she talks about her client's private business with friends. due to her unprofessionalsim, i would quesion her integrity and truthfulness in general, friend or not. shp, You're being silly again. It's obvious that you are doing all you can to avoid the truth here. You're completely overlooking the fact that Joe is friend's with this woman and most likely more than capable of judging her truthfulness. Her spilling the beans on Maharaji might indeed be something of a compromise of her profesional relationship, such as it was, with the guy. However, in the circumstances, it's pretty understandable. Yes, shp, all the premies do what you're doing. We've had a few discussions here comparing premies to holocaust deniers. Can you see the parallel? It's pretty striking. Holocaust deniers CLAIM they're open-minded and interested in nothing but the facts and their fair implications. Yet, when you present them with the facts they ALWAYS do some strange dance around them. Just like you're doing, I'm afraid. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Nov 29, 1998 at 13:32:44 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: shp Subject: Ex-Premie Behavior Message: 'Attorney-client privilege.' Cute. But a really, really stupid response. By the way, the principle of that privilege is that a lawyer can't be forced to divulge privileged information that you would only get through an attorney-client relationship. In this case, she didn't find out what she did because she was a lawyer, she found it out because she was part of PAM, was around him, and others and SAW what was going on, all of which was common knowledge within the inner circule around Maharaji. I think what my friend discovered was that she was in a cult. A cult that was not only deceptive about what Maharaji was really like as a person, something not disclosed to the vast majority of premies who only see their lord up on stage at big, staged, carefully managed programs, but she also found these things, eventually, to be disgusting, and also damaging to her, personally. In fact, she was so disgusted that she decided to stop practicing law. All she had ever done was be a cult lawyer, and she was afraid practicing law would remind her of what had been associated with it. All the unsavory elements of M and his cult. And so, she split and Maharaji became one of her, shall we say, least favorite people. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 13:08:47 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: g Subject: lucky Message: You say you have felt ''that joy'''' in your life. Who hasn't? Is it the exclusive property of cult members like you? More premie arrogance and superiority, no matter how politely cloaked. Another thing you are doing here, which is typical, hackneyed cult speak, is to blame the devotees, other premies and mahatmas. After all what were the mahatmas besides people stuck in the cult just like we were and you still are? No it came from the top the BM was in charge, or do you deny that? I see you've experienced the deaths of some loved ones. You have my sympathy. It's always painful. But you know what, it's part of life and everyone goes through it, not just you chosen ones. What's the big deal about enjoying life. That is about the most common (to the point of triteness) sentiment expressed everywhere. It's kinda like the grocery clerk saying have a nice day. So now a question which begs to be asked: Why did any of you follow Maharaji in the first place? My understanding was pretty clear - have an experience first - then believe. Or did you just jump right in to the belief part? believing because someone told you you should? If you had an experience first then how is it you deny it now? If you didn't, you had no business asking for Knowledge. For myself the experience was profound and undeniable. It still is. Now this statement reveals the extend of your confused, illogical and superstitous thinking. No surprising for someone who has repressed his intellectual faculties for 18 years. Kinda like being a junkie, I would say. We were sold a bill of goods which stated there was this great experience inside which could only be revealed through the grace of the Satguru, Living Perfect Master of our time, who taught the same thing as Jesus, Krishna, etc. Don't you remember? Now you are saying if we didn't have some experience first (I'm presuming you me the meditative experience here) then we had no business asking for the experience of within, meditation. You see, this makes absolutely no sense. So, what is this profound experience you had? Lot's of people have strange experiences within themselves. They don't end up on a bhakti trip and spend their lives enriching some Perfect Scamster, though. Why are you and your experience so much better than ordinary people? ''That joy, this life'' Cult-speak, g, and tiresome to the point of nausea. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 14:20:34 (EST)
From: g Email: gmj1210@aol To: gerry Subject: lucky Message: Funny - I don't recall saying the joy I had was superior to anyone else's or that there was no other way to achieve it. I just stated that this was where I found it. Your problem with that is...? I didn't blame anyone - I just asked if perhaps a lot of people's negative experiences didn't stem from sources other than Maharaji - perhaps this is why he closed the ashrams down - to avoid this kind of problem. Of course everyone experiences death - and I'm not whining or talking about how painful the experience was - just saying that they pointed to the same message that Maharaji does. That enjoying life is important - and I intend to go on enjoying as long as possible. How can you be anti-'enjoying/appreciating' life? In regards to experience, you assume wrong. I had a unique, undeniable tangible experience BEFORE I received the techniques of Knowledge. Repressed intellectual facilities? Lets see - I returned to college and graduated with a 4.0 while raising a family. I'm not an idiot. I am perhaps not even close to the smartest person on the planet, but I would hardly say I have repressed my analytical or intellectual skills. You just seem upset that we arrived at different conclusions. I never claimed to be extra-ordinary. Nor did I claim that my enjoyment was more or better - just that it is and that I am thankful So again - your problem with that is? What exactly? I'm no better - that's why I was trying to find out what you guys are about. Certainly, as many have pointed out - there are assholes everywhere. I try not to be one, but fail sometimes. But really, you just seem bent on antagonizing anyone who disagrees with you. I just expressed how I felt and what my questions were regarding the source of your relationships with Maharaji. I stand by that. If you didn't actually have any kind of experience prior to receiving Knowledge you shouldn't have asked for it. If you 'bought a bill of goods' without inspecting the package then I fear it is you who suppressed your intellectual faculties. In any case, I respect your views even though I disagree. I just can't understand if you really have turned your back why you all spend so much time reviewing it over and over again. If I don't like the cd I'm listening to - I put on another one. How long ago was this? I came from a really bizarre family. It would be easy for me to go along blaming my mother for all my problems. But where does that get me? After a while - as I suggested previously - it's time for you to take responsibility for your own choices and get over it already. You're all big people now. If you don't like it - don't do it. How many times have I heard Maharaji say that. You aren't obligated. But I think its past that. He didn't do what you wanted, so he's a cult leader bent on subverting your relationship with your family. You'll have a lot of explaining to do to my kids or my non-premie friends on that score. Is there alternative terminology for life? If I say happiness or insight would it change the meaning. Every group has language peculiar to it - we are still human beings after all. What about 'ex-premie', K, BM - is this not just another cult with its own cult-speak? It's just that in your cult you are anti-something rather than pro-something. And your focus is still Maharaji and Knowledge - interesting isn't it? Jacques Derrida would be proud. And gerry, if you understand that last reference e-mail me and we can discuss the relative merits of 'deconstruction.' Completely a personal opinion, but due to the rather aggressive nature of your response I think you are repressing guilt. And that's too bad, because if you really don't believe what Maharaji has said, you shouldn't be experiencing any guilt walking away. Especially some decade plus after the fact. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 18:46:14 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: g Subject: Prove it, g Message: I would hardly say I have repressed my analytical or intellectual skills. I say that's an unsopprtable claim and that you have indeed repressed your analytical skills. Do you have the guts to put your claim to the test? Let me tell you, by the way, that not a single premie -- not one -- has been able to stay at the table for a susbtantive, detailed and responsive discussion. Not one. I'm not lying, by the way. This is just the way it's been for a couple fo years now. So if you think you're any different, let me know and I'll happily get into it with you. Otherwise, I'm afraid, your claim rings pretty hollow for me. Sorry. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 16:02:21 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Jim Subject: Prove it, g Message: Dear Jim if no premie 'stayed at the table', you might want to consider that maybe, just maybe, it is because of something that YOU do? there is no possible communication . whatever a premie says, you ALWAYS respond by saying YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION!!! or GET TO THE POINT or FUCK YOU or whatever. Well, first of all, do you want to have premies stay around??? if you do, i hope that you eventually understand how to treat them (just a pr thing, you know...). if you DON'T want premies to stick around, than you are just doing fine, don't change anything. So far, you have managed to chase just about everybody away...in case you have not noticed, very few people still post on the forum (even ex premies seem to be getting tired of it) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 21:13:55 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Orlando Subject: Thanks for the laugh Message: Dear Jim if no premie 'stayed at the table', you might want to consider that maybe, just maybe, it is because of something that YOU do? there is no possible communication . whatever a premie says, you ALWAYS respond by saying YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION!!! or GET TO THE POINT or FUCK YOU or whatever. Yes, Orlando, I've considered very much what I do, what they do, what we all do. I think I know what's going on and it does seem that my beliefs get strengthened with every exchange. What you're saying here is quite innaccuarate and unfair. I don't jump all over premies whatever they say. I jump on premies when they're evasive. It just so happens that not a single premie has been able to discuss Maharaji in any other way. The test, my friend, isn't in tallying up the number of times I've cried 'foul'. What would that tell you? That I'm complaining for nothing? That the premies always deserve it? Neither? Something in between? Forget it. The test is in the actual substance of the exchanges. I challenge you to find me a single example of where I've accused a premie of not answering a question responsively unfairly. Go ahead, search the archives. Find me even one. You won't because you can't. That's what I think anyway but go ahead, prove me wrong. Well, first of all, do you want to have premies stay around??? Yes. I want to enlighten each and every one of them about the truth about Maharaji. If they're interested in talking with me, I'm interested in talking with them. if you do, i hope that you eventually understand how to treat them (just a pr thing, you know...). if you DON'T want premies to stick around, than you are just doing fine, don't change anything. So far, you have managed to chase just about everybody away...in case you have not noticed, very few people still post on the forum (even ex premies seem to be getting tired of it) I'm not interested in accomodating evasiveness. Are you? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 19:16:26 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: g Subject: lucky Message: Funny - I don't recall saying the joy I had was superior to anyone else's or that there was no other way to achieve it. I just stated that this was where I found it. Your problem with that is...? My problem with that is ANYONE can ''enjoy life'' without being a cult member. The cult and the cult leader aren't the source of your satisfaction. It's only logical. Your cult has made a lot more people miserable than happy, it appears to me. Why did so many leave if it were otherwise? Why did you say I am against enjoying life. That's absurd! Now who's being aggressive and making assumptions? If you didn't actually have any kind of experience prior to receiving Knowledge you shouldn't have asked for it. I REALLY don't know what this means, g. You evaded my question. How can one experience K (it's just short hand) BEFORE receiving it? This statement alone caused me to think your logic was short circuited. Congratulations for your degrees. Unfortunately I quit college (where I too, was doing very well) to move into the ashram to devote myself to helping the Lord of the Universe, the Perfect Master of our time BRING PEACE TO THE WORLD. Guess you missed that part. Look pal, I spent less than one year in cult, and that was 25 years ago. I hadn't thought about BM for years until I got on the 'Net and did a web search. In the interim, I thought about the whole crazy trip only on those rare occasions when a friend would rub my nose in it as a joke. This is my hobby. Believe me my focus is not and hasn't been BM for years and years and years. It is only this website, the stimulation of debate and friendships I found here that keep me involved at all. I never said you were an idiot. I do think you have a blind spot in your thinking when it come to this cult--the BM cult. I say BM out of total disrespect for the dishonesty and damage caused by this guy. Aggresive? You ain't seen nothin' yet. The idea that this is a cult (this website) is absolutely ludicrous, and you are smart enough to know it. Words do mean things. You are being intellectually dishonest. Completely a personal opinion, but due to the rather aggressive nature of your response I think you are repressing guilt. As long as we are being armchair shrinks here, I say you are being passive agressive, which seems endemic among the premies I've seen here. And about superiority: yes premies think they are superior to others who don't have ''Knowledge.'' At least that was what I remember and what I read here now. Knowledge is nothing but a couple of old recycled meditation techniques tied into a bhakti devotional trip for the enrichment of BM. If you can't see that you are indeed intellectually repressed inspite of your excellent academic acheivement. (Which I highly respect, BTW.) Sorry, don't know anything about whatsiname you mentioned. I quit college to follow the punk, remember? I am considering finishing my degree now, though. This website has completely inspired me to go for it in all aspects of my life. If that's a cult, I highly recommend it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 21:55:26 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: g Subject: lucky Message: If you didn't actually have any kind of experience prior to receiving Knowledge you shouldn't have asked for it. You're confusing me, lucky. Aren't you supposed to have Knowledge first so you can know what the experience of it is? Isn't that the message M was trying to get across with all those mango satsang of his? And what about that menu analogy he used to beat to death, you know the one about going to restaurants where they serve only menus, no food? How's about another favorite of his about describing water to a thirsty person? These stories were to impress upon us that Knowledge was like that, that you had to HAVE it to know what it is. Weren't you listening? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 22:47:54 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Ha, good one, Jerry (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 01:08:06 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: g Subject: lucky Message: He didn't do what you wanted, so he's a cult leader bent on subverting your relationship with your family. I presume by this sentence, you are implying that ex-premies are the ones who have labelled him a cult leader. I first heard Maharaji labelled as a cult leader by a journalist who isn't a premie, and who was doing a story on Maharaji. I was shocked. The reality is when Maharaji and premies have been studied by objective non-premies or cult-watch agencies, his whole trip resembles an archetypal cult, lock, stock 'n' barrel. Premies are the ONLY ones who will not say that the Big M and his followers are a cult. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 06:23:32 (EST)
From: hamzen Email: None To: g Subject: lucky Message: 'People here claim it has nothing to do with Maharaji, and yet I didn't have these experiences with any of the other paths I followed. Why?' You're into deconstruction right, are you saying that this statement of yours has no implications, just another route? Sorry if I'm a bit sceptical. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 20:51:54 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: g Subject: lucky Message: I'm really tired of hearing how all the problems were caused by mahatmas, initiators and other premies. M was in charge - the buck stopped with him. Many of his actions were not in the least caring,except to himself. Some of his indulgences were outrageous--if you had seen the inside of the original plane you would know what I mean. Congatulations on still being married-you're one of the few who lasted. Believe me if you had a skill that M needed he didnt give two hoots about your situation or circumstances and you were expected to feel the same way. Many people close to M were treated far worse by him than premies have ever treated each other. This isn't just hearsay--I'm talking about premies I shared rooms with. I also had experience of his erratic temper .We put it down to his lila or some such bullshit at the time, but it was behaviour that you wouldnt tolerate from anyone else. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 20:09:14 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: chr Subject: Well Said, chr Message: By the way, did you work on the plane project in Miami circa 1979-1981? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 01:58:48 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: JW Subject: Well Said, chr Message: Hi JW, No, I didn't work on the plane as such,but I did security on it at various airports. It was part of a sham security company formed by M.It was all very secretive and none of the officials at the airports were supposed to know we were premies. I also shared rooms with a couple of ashram premies who were called over.One lasted afew months and the other is still doing stuff on M's planes, as far as I know. He got married in about 84 but left his wife and baby a few years later when he was called over again.Apparently they interfered with his devotion to M. I also did security at M's residences at miami and Brisbane and at Kissimee. I think he spoke to me once in all that time.I got to see some interesting things, however, which I either rationalised or pushed under the carpet at the time . Cheers CHR. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 17:33:41 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Forgot something, ok, b'bye Message: I was clearing off some messages that had to do with my posts and ran across a bunch of chatter about my comments you are misinterpreting as a threat. I really had no intention of posting here again, but in the interest of accurate information - truth be told - I needed to get on one more time. Please let me put it in writing here and now that under no circumstances was I putting out a threat, either directly or indirectly, spoken or unspoken, when I was talking about what happens to people in this world who intentionally and with malice ----(expletive deleted) around with the private lives of people, especially married ones, as Jim described his actions. I am sorry if what I said even had the appearance of a threat to you, for that was not my intention when I wrote it. Now you can give me the benefit of the doubt or trash this. I have done my part to resolve the matter. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 17:39:16 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: SHP Subject: Forgot something, ok, b'bye Message: SHP, you have announced that 'this is the last time I'm posting here' so many times now! You are free to come and go here as you please, whenever you feel like it! There's no need to announce the finality of your departure every time one of us pisses you off. You might want to come back here one day. Hope you do. Bye for now, Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 18:01:46 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: SHP Subject: Forgot something, ok, b'bye Message: Another thing that irks me about ewe is your propensity for starting new threads for your every thought. As if they were soooo important--they're not. I did try valiantly to get you you banned for your thinly veiled threat. But I don't run the place. I am hoping (against hope) you will make good on your other threat--to leave permanently--but you will probably go back on that one, too. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 18:33:15 (EST)
From: hamzen Email: None To: SHP Subject: Forgot something, ok, b'bye Message: There's threats and there's threats. I didn't read it as a personal threat, but it was certainly a threat that bad karma from badmouthing the lard would verily happen. On a site where a number of people have described the difficulties, pain and fear about what would happen to them if they walked away, that is a threat, it's a re-inforcement of mr nicey-nice's heaviness. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 18:39:40 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: hamzen Subject: Clarity Message: No, man, it's human nature. Do the same thing to a truck driver or a lawyer or a construction worker or a surgeon or a bodybuilder or a custodian and see what happens - get in their business and make lies and gossip public and see what happens....this situation is not about Maharaji, it's about a technique Jim used to get attention and vent some of his feelings, and judging from Jim's input, he is fully aware of what he was doing at stands by it. At least he's not a sneak, but that is little comfort for such behavior. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 19:03:42 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: SHeeP Subject: Clarity Message: No, man, it's human nature. Do the same thing to a truck driver or a lawyer or a construction worker or a surgeon or a bodybuilder or a custodian and see what happens - get in their business and make lies and gossip public and see what happens....this situation is not about Maharaji, it's about a technique Jim used to get attention and vent some of his feelings, and judging from Jim's input, he is fully aware of what he was doing at stands by it. At least he's not a sneak, but that is little comfort for such behavior. Really, sheep, this is about Jim? Wrong. Your Master is a public figure. He lives off the public. The same rules don't apply to public figures. I know the truth about your alcoholic, manipulative, womanizing, liar and cheat you call god must hurt. But you could just walk away from it. I will agree with your statement that Jim's not a sneak, but ewe sure are with your veiled threats and thinly disguised contempt in the form of your fantasy parables. I believe it's call ''passive-agressive.'' It's ok, though, lots of premies have it. You just have it in spades. Another thing--there would be no reason to have a web site about an ordinary person, doctor, truck driver, whatever. This is a logical fallacy on your part to bring this up. Straw man, perhaps? I'm not sure , but somebody here would know. Hey, I though you were leaving. You bullshitted us about that too, I guess. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 19:06:20 (EST)
From: hamzen Email: None To: SHP Subject: Clarity Message: Right, a guru manifesting god's rule is just a job like construction worker or surgeon. First time I've come across that argument before! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 19:46:51 (EST)
From: srb Email: None To: SHP Subject: Clarity-shp Message: you can hang around and talk with just those you choose. I was kinda lookin forward to hearing you out on a few things but it looks like you are saying bye. Well, how about meeting at the premie forum? You know about that forum? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 20:31:30 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: SHP Subject: More come-backs than Sinatra Message: SHP wrote: 'when I was talking about what happens to people in this world who intentionally and with malice ---- (expletive deleted) around with the private lives of people' Yes I know, I know. You said they could end up in court or in a ditch. But your above quoted words apply exactly to a certain guru who fucked around with people's private lives. I think his fucking around with our lives was far worse than the gossip and scandle which we talk about on this page. SHP; you've made more farewell performances than Frank Sinatra ever did. Why not let your 'premie with attitude' persona let rip on enjoyinglife.org? Don't tell me why you don't try that. I know. Well there are other premie or ex-premie web sites you can go to, so here are some links: the uncensored premie web site the Magical Mystery Tour forum Maharaji's Homepage Unsolved Mysteries Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 20:39:32 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: SHP Subject: Is this goodbye for real? Message: If you're going to keep reading and posting here, how about answering my post? You accused me of something that I don't think I did. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 16:11:20 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Premies' pockets picked again Message: The following is a quote from ELK about ''going global'' via sattelite: Though the complexity and cost of creating a system to support global distribution of 'live' video events may seem daunting, the past 25 years has shown that, grounded in the simplicity of what we have come to understand, and motivated by the joy and gratitude we feel, a way can be found to manifest this vision. And, as we've happily witnessed with audio and videotapes, technologies that help us 'keep in touch' can become powerful tools to serve that vision. Perhaps the BM is getting bored with flying his personal jet and wants to stay home. Maybe he has a new girlfriend. Or maybe the new crop of marijuana is just too good this year. Who knows? One thing is for sure: the premies will be dummying up big time to pay for his new toy--a global sattelite system--no matter what the costs or reason. I pity the poor bastards. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 17:42:47 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Premies' pockets picked again Message: Do you think BM thought this up himself? nah, probably one of his advisors or something. I don't think it will work anyway, premies want that in person darshan crap. He's really getting lazy. What an idiot. How stupid does he think people are? It's not going to work, watch. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 18:41:05 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: x Subject: Premies' pockets picked again Message: I don't think it will work anyway, premies want that in person darshan crap. I'm not so sure about that, x. Premies 'want' whatever Maharaji wants, settle for whatever he tells them that is. Those who wanted to stay in ashrams were told to hit the bricks. Those who wanted nightly satsang were told to buy a VCR and videos. Maharaji has nothing to give that he hasn't taken from them. Hey, Gerry - what's the URL of that page where you got that? I can't stand reading the glossy garbage over there, but that sounds more like EV public relations crap than spontaneous words that originated from Premie Island. I'd like to read it myself and see how it was presented. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 19:25:30 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Brian Subject: URL for Brian Message: Brian for some reason, their home page url is all I can retrieve. Maybe it has something to do with their frame format, you would know better than I. So here it is: Going Global: A look at the possibilities of 'live' link-ups Now that Maharaji's first global satellite broadcast is set for 13 December, we have reprinted 'Going Global' from 'Connect' magazine which was published in June of this year. The article gives a layman's guide to what is involved in a simultaneous world-wide broadcast. Don't be surprised if soon, at a venue near you, the local MC announces that 'the following video event is brought to you live from London-or Long Beach, Tokyo, New Delhi or Mauritius.' 'The technology is there, we just need to plug into it,' said Maharaji in May in Miami. And immediately an effort was launched to discover how best to 'plug into' the communications technology that would allow this exciting step to take place. With individuals in more than 80 countries eager to hear Maharaji, satellites would seem well suited to play a role in the distribution of live video feeds. They can transmit to large geographic areas and are relatively independent of the tele-communications facilities 'on the ground', which in many countries are limited. To receive a satellite feed, all that's needed is the right kind of 'dish' antenna (referred to as a 'downlink' in industry jargon), a TV display, and enough electric power to operate them. TECHNOLOGICAL FEAT What's also needed, of course, is the 'live' event that brings the real magic to this technological feat. Technically speaking, this requires an 'uplink' dish equipped to send the signal up to a satellite orbiting 22,300 miles above the equator. Uplinks are more complex, larger, and more costly than downlinks, and typically require more extensive licensing and government approvals. Government regulation of uplinks and downlinks varies widely from country to country and can add a whole other layer of complexity to the already intricate technical and logistical aspects of planning a global satellite feed. While satellites can have very large footprints' - the area that can be reached by a single transmission beam-a global broadcast would need to use multiple satellites. For example, if a live event was broadcast by satellite from London, a single satellite might be able to broadcast it to all of Europe and perhaps parts of the US, but the signal might have to be sent back up to another satellite in the US to get it as far as California or Hawaii. The same might be true for delivering a simultaneous live feed to the thirsty hearts in Africa, Asia, Australia, and South America. GROUNDED IN SIMPLICITY Though the complexity and cost of creating a system to support global distribution of 'live' video events may seem daunting, the past 25 years has shown that, grounded in the simplicity of what we have come to understand, and motivated by the joy and gratitude we feel, a way can be found to manifest this vision. And, as we've happily witnessed with audio and videotapes, technologies that help us 'keep in touch' can become powerful tools to serve that vision. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 20:26:15 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Gerry Subject: EV tripe Message: Thanks Gerry. Sure enough, it's vintage Elan Vital. I thought I detected that polished EV sound in this part: ...grounded in the simplicity of what we have come to understand, and motivated by the joy and gratitude we feel, a way can be found to manifest this vision. It's one thing to use an editorial WE in presenting material to readers. But using a collective WE that encompasses the readers is a manipulative means of instructing readers as to what they understand and feel. Nice touch, EV. Slipped it right past the the old right brain! I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel inspired to donate as much as I possibly can!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 23:52:23 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: x Subject: Too old to globetrot? Message: Hi, x How are you doing? How do your premie family members feel about the possiblity that they can stay home and see Maharaji semi-live? I think mine would love it. No traveling hassles or expenses. I could be wrong. Just remember, some of those die-hard devotees are getting too old to globetrot anymore-snicker. No offense anyone. VP Precocious, was that the word, Brian? ;) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Nov 26, 1998 at 17:11:56 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: VP Subject: Too old to globetrot? Message: Hi VP, I'm fine, thanks for asking. I'm not sure what my family thinks about the live video feed idea. I haven't talked about it to them yet. Maybe you're right, they might be glad to stay home and not have to travel. I think they'll miss seeing the BM in person though. I've seen my mother after an 'event' and I don't think she can get the same 'fix' from a video, live or not. Take Care, x Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Nov 27, 1998 at 00:11:40 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: x Subject: Also to x Message: Dear x, Just wanted to say I was glad to see you here. I remembered that I probably owe you an e-mail or something and hope this will suffice for the moment. Hope all is well, and that you had a good holiday. Fried but still alive :) Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 13:36:36 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Everyone Subject: A thread is still a threat... Message: even when the disclaimer, ''this is not a threat'' is applied. Sheep, excuse me, Mr. Sheep said in reference to Jim: This is not a threat from me or Maharaji, but in the real world, people end up in court or in ditches for f***ing around with men and their wives and getting into their personal business and publishing it, lies and all. This is just a reality check, not a threat. There you go Katie and Brian. Something REAL to be upset about. I thinks this very definitely qualifies as a threat and it is time for our dear friend sheep to hit the road. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 13:54:12 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Gerry Subject: B'bye Message: Don't waste your time having a committee meeting. I am outta here on my own steam. I don't belong on this site. Apples and oranges, ya know? Have a good life. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 13:56:39 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: All Subject: B'bye Message: I hope you all check out the ENJOY thread......it is probably the last you will be hearing from me. Shalom. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 13:59:37 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Gerry Subject: B'bye for real Message: Gerry, You got a thing for farm animals? Sheep don't talk like me, they all make the same noise. You had the rare experience of meeting up with a PWA - premie with attitude - cherish it. Ciao. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 14:13:44 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: SHP Subject: Good riddance Message: You're making the same sound, sheep, just a little louder, that's all. You are gutless. You make cowardly threats and try to veil them. But then, what should I expect? You are just following the ways of your master whose feet you kiss: lies, distortion, intimidation. You've learned your lessons well. You are a perfect example of where Knowledge and the cult of selfishness brings people. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 17:13:23 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: SHP Subject: B'bye for real Message: In a thread below you accused me of calling a good friend of yours a lot of nasty names. I don't recall calling anyone on this forum bad names. If you're still hanging around, care to refresh my memory? I'll apologize if I did indeed call someone nasty names. Honestly, I don't remember doing that. Maybe when you said 'you' what you meant was not me personally, but the collective body of ex-premies here. Lumping everyone into the same category? Heavy sigh. Care to comment? VP Uses restraint with name calling most of the time Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 17:28:32 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: SHP Subject: Now I get it, SHP Message: Probably talking to air here, I guess the friend you were talking about is Maharaji-sheesh. I don't remember calling even him a lot of nasty names. Though he may deserve them... Can someone here enlighten me as to what kali yuga static control is? VP Naive at times Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 17:42:34 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: VP Subject: Now I get it, SHP Message: Veep, Kali Yuga=Age of Darkness. More moldy hindu superstition. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 19:55:36 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: gerry Subject: Thanks, Gerry-nt Message: I don't speak Hindu ;) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 15:21:07 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Gerry Subject: Legal 'threats' Message: SHP's statement is nothing new here. Sometimes it comes from an ex who is concerned with what the legal liabilies are. They are easily reassured. Usually though it comes from a premie who wants to pretend that the ex-Lord still has SOME power that he can exercise over life's events. It usually takes the form Wait till Maharaji finds out what you said!!, and it's always given as a warning that we are leaving ourselves open to legal repercussions by speaking what we know to be the truth. Maharaji knows differently. His lawyers have already told him that he can sue only by making visible what he has worked so long and hard to keep hidden from his devotees - the truth - as revealed by the grace of the legal suppoena in the deposition process. So he postures and blows wind - nothing new. That's his style. Premies may fall for it for a while or an entire lifetime. Those who learn better end up posting their own Journeys entry here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 15:27:53 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Brian Subject: Read it again, Brian Message: Here it is for you: This is not a threat from me or Maharaji, but in the real world, people end up in court or in ditches for f***ing around with men and their wives and getting into their personal business and publishing it, lies and all. This is just a reality check, not a threat. Emphasis added. ''Ending up in ditches'' means killed and the body left (or buried) in a ditch. Is that threatening or not????? Good god! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 15:40:07 (EST)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Read it again, Brian Message: Gerry, Hate to have to have to admit this, but big up to you for saving me so many bucks and boring time at the keyboard, the last few days. Probably stopped some foul language being on the site! Much appreciated. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 15:47:06 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: hamzen Subject: Thanks, I think Message: Hi Hamzen, Sorry my mind isn't working too well today, yesterday was a bit much and I'm somewhat fried. I'm not sure what you mean and if you are being sarcastic or not. OK if you are, no biggie I just am not quite reading you. Could you explain to my dense brain? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 16:18:28 (EST)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Thanks, I think Message: No, straight-up. A number of times the blaaaaaaaar lamb was truly getting my goaat, I'm fired up, angry, ready to post, lo & behold Gerry's already said it. Ya get a second big-up, big up = maximum respect. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 16:22:20 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: hamzen Subject: OK!!!! Muchas gracias!!! (NT) Message: Feels GREAT! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 17:35:01 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Read it again, Brian Message: Ooooh, I see what you mean there, Gerry. That's kinda creepy, isn't it? Perhaps he meant, in his inimitable, circuitous way that 'all's fair in love & war' or some macho bullshit like that Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 10:32:52 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Whatever you do, ENJOY Message: THE COSMIC CAFE featuring the satiric stylings of SHP for your Holiday pleasure - no cover, no minimum Hey all you turkeys, aren't ya glad Maharaji and most of the premies are mainly vegetarians, or they would have just EATEN YOU at Thanksgiving when you stopped practicing! (Rimshot) OK, so there's this guy Moses shlepping these two stone tablets down a frigging mountainside with words carved in them, telling all the assembled flock that he's got these commandments from God they all need to follow now...yeah right. A little circle of yentas in the back mumble 'Isn't he the guy who used to be a prince of Egypt and killed an Egyptian taskmaster...and now he's a messenger from God? I should live so long...my nephew Sheldon in Phonecia could do a better job...and besides that, Moses has such a lisp! His brother Aaron has to speak for him...out of 600,000 Israelites, I am supposed to believe that God Almighty, the maker of heaven and earth, picked a shmuck with a lisp to lead his children out of the land of bondage? He's nothing but a con artist shmo with a big ego!' (Rimshot) Oh yeah, there's that same little group of yentas hanging near Jesus who is walking around the Mediterranean coastal area sniping at him: 'Tough life, eh J? Too bad you didn't make it to the Riveria, you mighta never come back...telling everyone to drop everything and follow you, hocking about something about the kingdom of God is within you.....Let me get this straight: while you are getting housed and fed like a king by your rich friends and supporters which you conveniently cultivate along your route to pad your goatskins, all the poor idiots who have travelled far to hear you are waiting to hear about something they can't see, smell, taste, touch or hear with human senses - are sleeping on the frigging ground!' (Rimshot) Did you hear about the one where one of Jesus' inner circle bitched at the 'Son of Man' (what kind of name is that??) about some expensive oil that somebody poured on his feet...and this 'apostle' (another frigging title) goes on about how the oil could have been sold to feed the poor...then Master J goes, 'You'll always have the poor with you, but you won't always have me with you'. Thank God! Then this same follower, Judas was his name, rats on his 'Lord' and then goes and hangs himself! (Rimshot) The yentas continue: 'And to top it off, the guy gets himself crucified! And he even dropped his cross 3 times. Now I ask you is that the Son of God? We are supposed to believe that Almighty God, maker of heaven and earth, first sends a murdering shmuck with a lisp to save the children of Israel from slavery, then God sends an unemployed whore-loving carpenter to reveal the kingdom of God within. And then some of his ass-kissers hallucinate and think they see him after he has been dead a few days. He must have put some pretty strong drugs into those fishes and loaves he fed everyone...and that wine and bread thing being his body and blood...I am going to puke!' (hey Gerry that was for you, I can see you in the audience...let;s do lunch!) (Rimshot) Thank you very much ladies and gentlemen...and have a Happy and healthy Thanksgiving, and remember, drive safely on the information superhighway this holiday season. The Master you hit may be your own.(Spotlight off, travelling music, curtain close) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 11:06:26 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: SHP Subject: Whatever you do, ENJOY Message: You're right SHeeP and you win. This is now a censored forum like enjoyinglife.org. But here's a place where anyone can Say Anything without censorship. Even you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 14:15:31 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: SHP Subject: what bullshit (nt) Message: barf, barf, barf Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 1998 at 01:51:48 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: More Feedback Message: This arrived in the mail yesterday. Usually I try to put Feedback on the appropriate page, but the wordy stuff ends up here since I hate to try to figure out what to trim. The content was anonymously sent, but sounds like something that I could have written myself. Whoever you are, I want you to know that I think you're absolutely right! :) I am very disturbed by this guru maharaji. I came to him in good faith about 22 years ago, received HIS knowledge, did lots of 'service' in his organizations, DLM and EV, and yes actually worshipped him as the satguru (true messager of GOD). I have to admit that I've had some great experiences from the meditation techniques (Knowledge) but now I realize these experiences of love, bliss,ect. were always within me. That this was not HIS knowledge. That what he calls knowledge does not belong to any one person. How dare he claim this to be exclusively his knowledge! It is the birthright of all people. Further, his message is inconsistent. In the 1970's he used a lot of sandscript hindu type words (see the glossary of terms on this website) then he westernized his approach everywhere except in India. He changed the process of his presentation here in the west while keeping his original presentation in India. He says he does not want our money yet he sends his instructors around America and Europe to solicit money for his projects in gatherings called Local Community Special Presentations. This guy is highly materialistic and is a master at manipulating people. His movement is not about GOD, its not about Divine Knowledge, it not even about service to humanity or helping people with their issues. In fact, maharaji does not care about the poor or physically suffering of the world. While he is married and has a family, he talks bitterly at his events about marriage, family and friendships. All he cares about is that people give him their attention and worship him. His organization is setup to serve him and only him. The majority of people who still follow him do not talk about their experience of knowledge anymore as they did in the 1970's, rather most are just going around quoting maharaji and his videos. Instead of having a direct experience of their own inner self and talking about that, they critize the world and quote their guru. Most are having a second hand experiences parroting their so-called perfect master. The censorship in this guys organization is outragous. Before each program or as he likes to call them today 'events' there are meetings for those doing 'service' on what to say or not say to the general public. Again a scripted second hand experience. Maharaji is not a humble human being, in fact for a spiritual master he is very arrogant and rude. At the Colorado Springs USA 'event' he said 'if you don't like what I'm doing take a walk'. Well I'm walking. I have found there are many more very beautiful. humble and better ways to nurture your soul then following maharaji. His movement started out with rather pure intentions, or so it seemed, but it has digressed into a major materialistic ego trip with alott of censorship and manipulation of the followers. Frequently on his videos he talks about his airplanes and cars. He wears expensive suites, and looks like a Wall Street broker, while the majority of his devotees can bearly pay their rent or buy food. Maharaji is all about Maharaji and nothing else. I can go on and on and on with this venting. But I'll end it here. In short I feel betrayed by this guy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Nov 28, 1998 at 12:30:04 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Brian Subject: More Feedback Message: Bian, I think this belongs on the feedback page despite it's length. I have read it several times and don't see any need to trim it. Whoever wrote this expressed themselves very well (and echoed a lot of my own feelings). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |