Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 35 | |
From: Jan 8, 1999 |
To: Jan 25, 1999 |
Page: 1 Of: 5 |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 19:14:46 (EST)
From: Mark Appleman Email: None To: Erica Anderson Subject: An Open Letter to Erica Message: hey Erica. Mark here.I saw your post and responses from last week and felt to but a personal face on a response to you. As we have been in the ashram together, performed music (sequentially at least) in public together, and are even currently part-time consultants on the same project together, I think we both would grant each other a modicum of intelligence,practicality, and passion.Also we're both successful householders and businesspeople. I'm going to assume also that your desire to post was not a total put down on people that are attempting to reconstitute their lives after involvement with Maharaji as the Alpha-Omega, the living ALL of their existence.But rather that the forum can tend to be a bit uncivilized. I agree. But this is really a unique CyberHalfway house for premies that are either considering ,choosing to, or undergoing deprogramming- or at least opening to certain posibilities that are EXTREMELY threatening to them as individuals. Therefore , as the esteemed Reverend Bob would say, cut them from slack.Change for us all is difficult. Also, I recommend the ancilliary sites on the website.(journeys,Dr Lane,and the Elan Vital sites). I mean there are an enormous wealth of facts and tales that are worthy of any lifeform considering Mr Rawat as the Living Master, which may in time become an untenible position for him to retain.'I've already made up my mind. Don't try and confuse me with facts !,' I can hear the collective Bhakti responding. But I'm just saying that this is the kind of information that might make for an INFORMED choice before (of after) jumping into the waters of the Devotional Swimming Pool.Would it matter that Shri Hans might be considered a modern Vidianand,just taking the knowledge and starting his own branch? Or that Knowledge and perfect Master's ( pick your favorite)are the chief export of Northern India.? Or Maharaji's personal problems or contradictions in position re Knowledge and him ? I'm not saying that that is any way invalidates personal experience, visions, etc., because i've had them by the bushelful, but it has forced me to' Go a little deeper, as they say. This is not in any way to refute the enormous dollups of bliss that I regularly experinced in my wholehearted involvement with maharaji and premies- and the elements of superconsciousness readily STILL available to those who remain in the Master/Lord/teacher- Aspirant/Devotee/student setup.However,I and others eventually succembed to what we felt were tragic/fatal flaws in the system.Though I am proud and happy to report that I have experienced much grander levels of bliss since, and greater happiness. To leave any system that gives bliss/AND/is fear based(subtle but true, all varients on He's the Real Deal theme) is a toughie. So Erica I think -given the internet- the ability to surpress information and dissent is gone. Finito. To be a current Master follower,and yet wanting to find the strength or an audience to address the Heavy-Duty Cognitive Dissonance many feel in all this, this Website and the others like it are as much an Oasis Of Love and sanity for them, as attending a program or recieving darshan, might be for you. Maybe hard for you to believe, but true. LEAVING THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE someone who WAS relentlessly programming himself to you as the real element of YOUR LIFE, is a BELIEF CORE reclamation project quite daunting, & close to impossible to activate. Remember, once at least, He was the Superior Power in Person. Collecting our ALL. You must understand that when you advertise and carry yourself in that way for 25 years, despite new Packaging,people can and should have the right ( and in my case I felt the) responsibility to present the information and experience that had them Cry Foul ! False Advertising !Maybe that might give someone else the courage to engage Critical thinking, and relook the hold they have given a total stranger( maybe not in your and David's case, but a rank and file Devotee.) Empowering themselves. Walking.Walking back to themselves. Imagine you represent a multi-level Phone company that says that they will radically change and improve the lives of all who get involved. And you in true earnest devotional fashion, spread the word. And many people get involved. And then you realize that the company is not in fact too different from anyone else. And in fact while the sponsoring is a buzz, there are better programs involved without the Whole Trip. And in fact the owner's a bit two-faced, and he's really only interested in Going Public, or keeping new Distributor's coming into the company. Anyway, you get the drift. . .you might think 'but what about my investment of time,effort,social engineering, hierarchial jockeying, etc-( and add to that in the Actual situation - THE LOSS OF THE SAVIOR FIGURE and FEAR OF THE NEW AND UNKNOWN.) that to me is what's happening here. Its not curious, its real. Its the desperate honest search for Freedom and Truth.Call it another version of the aspirant process. The awakening of a planet of sleeping gods.Some who are ready to enlarge their paradigm's. This site helps those people deal with issues that seem to repeatedly come up, call them exit traumas. Also out here in Malibu I know about 20 premies that have begun the process i began some years back. Because of this site and the others cited. Not out of the fold, but at least taking Maharaji with a bit of salt. Call them seasoned veterans. We remain inextricably enmeshed in the unending celebration of the ecstacy of life, and its ongoing refinement. . . take care girl Mark Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 21:02:24 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Mark Appleman Subject: Thanks for that, Mark. Message: I am still addicted to the idea of bliss. You said you were 'happy to report that I have experienced much grander levels of bliss since, and greater happiness.' Would you share your info? I really do miss the bliss, BUT NOT THE REST. :>) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 10:48:43 (EST)
From: Mark Email: Apple4256@aol.com To: Gail Subject: Thanks for that, Mark. Message: Bliss request ? Hmm. . . start with abraham-hicks.com get the first set of 10 tapes (subjects) do a little blending get to directly experience your own higher self without intermediaries familiarize yourself with an inner landscape without PERFECT BURGLARS there are about 10 other systems of growth and bliss that don't exact a price of lifelong ostritchdom Abraham's just one but a safe non-judgemental one my emails always open and this is the 2nd time i've suggested this to you I had the same symptom Bliss withdrawl its an itch that must be scratched Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 12:01:25 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: Mark Subject: Appleman Fanclub Message: I just wanted to add in that I really liked your response to Erica as well. I think you've made some really good objective points that are hard to just rationalize away, although I'm sure that the rank and file will easily find a way to. While I'm here I may as well compliment you on your excellent journey too. Definitely one of my faves! Have a Nice Day, x Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 19:18:12 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: x Subject: Appleman Fanclub Message: Add my name to the Appleman fan club list. I still have your 10 points of freedom post handy and on top of a pile. But unless I have a different Abraham, the woman I listened to a couple years ago channeling an entity calling itself Abraham was claiming to be 100 entities speaking as abraham at once. And the part that I found funny was that she claimed something like '100 in your human ways of doing math' or something like that. Which my immediate response was that there IS no cosmic OTHER math. 100 is 100 no matter where you are. enthusiastic wanting of your desires is the gist? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 05:37:24 (EST)
From: Mark Email: OT ? To: bill Subject: Growth Freedom Bliss Fanclub Message: glad i could be of help mr X & Bill we all are to each other i still have this collective vision of each and all IRREVOCABLY AWAKENING independent of whatever/whoever we think we might be for or against the principal understandings i got re Abraham were experiential and of perspective. that our 3 dimensional model of existence doesn't explain emotion thought sex synchronicity and a host of other things. and that our MULTIDIMENSIONALITY must be embraced as a new 'operating system,' so to speak (knowledge practice gave us legitimate tastes of multidimentional experience, but then that experience was then Harvested & 'spun' into the DLM/Enjoying/Elan Vital Hierarchy( a 3D one) . This system creates fragmented pockets of experience that generates the ON/OFF lifestyle and permanent helpless 'adolesence' of the devotee/junkie.This shortcircuits an actual INTEGRATED multidimensional experience of ourselves as pulsing living conscious parts of it all. and is SOP(standard operating procedure) for most human religions.The external savior endplay. i appreciated the practical nature of Abraham teachings and as an added bonus that Abraham was NOT looking for me to enter a subserviant relationship ! one Abraham overview is that our inner being is the 7/8 th's of the iceberg that we are- & that we only intermittently,on a hit and miss basis,experience and by a very simple technique called ' blending' one invokes or invites the deeper wiser aspect of our OWN self into play which certainly was to me at least Quite a revelation. certainly bill Abraham also does lay out the mechanics of how and why things happen and ergo how to make things run a bit more smoothly but it's SO neutral- not unlike a totally empowering but agenda-free parent . . . Abraham's just one part of a whole chorus of voices that seems to invite our INDIVIDUAL SOVEREIGNTY as the nonnegotiable ANTE to ride a reliable current of Ecstacy & Joy / that addresses our fundamental need for freedom and growth and what we as a species can achieve with INTENTION Also that we are responsible for everything (even falling for false messiahs !) Another Ante in the game of AWAKE . . . greg braden can answer science and math questions and old Zecariah Sitkin might have you reconsider your old History of Western Civilization classes And as Queen might sing 'We are the Champions' this time around,at least. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 10:36:25 (EST)
From: Bill Ji Email: None To: Mark Subject: science guys handy? opinions? Message: Hello Mark. Harvesting and spinning is a good way to put it. But while Abraham can see the harvesting and spinning of the groups, I wonder if the spin coming from Abraham catches your eye. In our eraseing of the confining web of spin from all the religiously oriented groups and individuals, I think abraham is welcoming us to overlook something. I notice that abraham is speaking from a place of many voices and entities. Even if the message is one that clears the radar screens, what I just accepted was that there are out of body self concious entities but there is NO self concious origional intelligence. When abraham arrived on the out of body scene, it was a place of all recent arrivals from earth or wherever else is possible. The origional intelligence is viewed as a pool of oneness and qualities that abraham, having an advantage over the pool because abraham is self concious, can use and talk about and define. The oneness itself is viewed and presented as not self concious and without a personality and intent of it's own. Having sponsored the creation, it sits (?) back mute and indifferent and has no eager fingers stirring the pot. That is left to those 'great souls' (like the dali lama) that -just about- merged with it but couldn't stand the thought of killing thier own self indentity and plunging into the pool and becoming potential energy that others could use but it itself couldn't. SO, they hang out at the edge of the wide blue(?) yonder and take a body (or not!) and help us with compassion and advice and insight. I say, that key point of wether or not the big pool of origional intelligence is concious or not is my big sticking point with the whole eastern view. If it is a usable pool with no agenda, then prem rawat is clear for take off and can behave as he likes because SOMEONE can identify his behaviour as a spiritual lesson and who is to judge that wrong? Against what standard? He is (to some) a portal to the it, the pool, the inert beyond. See my problem? Anyone is welcome to join in of course. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 10:53:12 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bill Ji Subject: No better than Maharaji Message: Bill, Mark, These guys are exploiting the same wishful thinking Maharaji is. I mean, isn't it obvious? I love the part about how the Hicks' disclosed their 'experience ... to a handful of close business associates.' I bet they did! Anyways, if you're just looking to be made to feel like a baby again, that the 'real' you never dies and that life is nothing but love and whatever else you create, why not just watch the Teletubbies? At least it's free. Here, by the way, is the only free stuff I could find on the Hicks' site: 'A Synopsis of Abraham-Hicks' Teachings You are a Physical Extension of that which is Non-physical. You are here in this body because you chose to be here. The basis of your life is Freedom; the purpose of your life is Joy. You are a creator; you create with your every thought. Anything that you can imagine is yours to be or do or have. You are choosing your creations as you are choosing your thoughts. The Universe adores you; for it knows your broadest intentions. Relax into your natural Well-being. All is well. (Really it is!) You are a creator of thoughtways on your unique path of joy. Actions to be taken and money to be exchanged are by-products of your focus on joy. You may appropriately depart your body without illness or pain. You can not die; you are Everlasting Life. P.S. It is not necessary for even one other person to understand the Laws of the Universe or the processes that we are offering here in order for you to have a wonderful, happy, productive Life Experience -- for you are the attractor of your experience. Just you! Excited about the clarity and practicality of the translated word from abraham, Jerry and Esther Hicks began, in 1986, disclosing their abraham experience to a handful of close business associates. Then, recognizing the practical results being received by those persons who began plying abraham with meaningful personal questions regarding their finances, bodily conditions, and relationships... the Hickses made a conscious decision to allow abraham's teachings to become available to an ever widening circle of seekers. And that circle continues to expand -- even as you read this page. Jerry and Esther have now published more than 150 Abraham-Hicks books, cassettes and videos, and have been presenting open group interactive workshops in about 40 cities a year to those who gather to participate in this progressive stream of thought. Although worldwide attention has been given by leading edge thinkers to this Science of Deliberate Creation who, in turn, incorporate many of abraham's concepts into their books, lectures, sermons, screenplays, scripts...the primary spread of this material has been from person to person -- as individuals begin to discover the value of these materials in their practical, personal experience. Abraham, a group of obviously evolved teachers, speak their broader Non-physical perspective through the physical apparatus of Esther. Speaking to our level of comprehension, from their present moment to our now, through a series of loving, allowing, brilliant yet comprehensively simple, recordings in print and in sound -- they guide us to a clear connection with our Inner Being -- they guide us to self-upliftment from our total self.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 11:16:45 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: This part's fun, though Message: 'Our Guarantee Your Unconditional Guarantee of Satisfaction: If for some reason you receive damaged material, or don't truly love what you hear, see, or read, let us know. Don't even bother sending the material back. Just toss it away. We will replace the item or refund your money -- whichever you prefer -- as soon as we hear from you. We want you to be completely satisfied with our products and our service.' 'Just toss it away' -- I like that. Seems like they're saying, 'look, we know this stuff's silly. We don't want to get into a big argument about it either. If you're one of the few people gullible enough to order this in the first place but ornery enough to actually listen to it critically enough to judge it any which way, fine, we don't give a fuck. We're certianyl not going to fight about it. You can have your money back 'cause there are lots more where you came from. And see? We're still smiling!' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 12:08:30 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Bill Ji Subject: science guys handy? opinions? Message: This is not science so Jim needn't read it. But Bill, I strongly believe the Eastern school of thought have got it all completely wrong. For starters, try this. A being we call God is expansive by nature and ceaselessly gives birth to new individual consciousnesses which are us. Not so that they will one day lose their individuality and disappear into God (as in Hinduism and Buddism) but so that they can also have a life. An individual existence in which they can explore and express their individuality, form relationships with other individuals and also have a relationship with God. These new consciousnesses are co-creators with God. So they are essensial and God learns from them and vice versa. They aren't seperate from God at all and down here, on the Earth, some of them get fleeting glimpses that they aren't seperate and never were. Where I believe Eastern thought is so wrong is that they assume that physical life has no purpose and one has to try to escape from it. They also think that individuals have no purpose and should become liberated from such a state. And yet that all goes against the real purpose behind everything which is to live life and cherish the individuality. (That's loving yourself, Bruce) I have been told that the final outcome is to become a glorious and expansive individual being on par with God himself. Our individuality and potential taken to it's limitless capability. So very different from the Eastern philosophy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 12:22:45 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Sir David Subject: What is that, David? Message: For starters, try this. A being we call God is expansive by nature and ceaselessly gives birth to new individual consciousnesses which are us. Not so that they will one day lose their individuality and disappear into God (as in Hinduism and Buddism) but so that they can also have a life. An individual existence in which they can explore and express their individuality, form relationships with other individuals and also have a relationship with God. These new consciousnesses are co-creators with God. So they are essensial and God learns from them and vice versa. They aren't seperate from God at all and down here, on the Earth, some of them get fleeting glimpses that they aren't seperate and never were. What do you mean, 'try this'? Is this some script you're writing? A dream you had? A joke? What is it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 13:25:07 (EST)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Jim Subject: What is that, David? Message: Jim. If I had a time machine I could go back in time 25 years and meet Shri Premie Jim who would be a firm believer in Maharaji's Eastern philosophy and would tell me about the truth inside myself and the illusion of the world etc. etc. etc. If I told Shri Jim Ji then that he'd got it all wrong and that Maharaji was just an Asian Businessman in the making and that Knowledge was a biological and neurological experience caused by concentration on certain bodily functions and neural phenomena; no doubt the premie Jim would have said I was talking utter rot. If I meet Jim in 100 years time when it's guaranteed that we'll have passed on, then I'll have a discussion with you about life after death. Look Jim, I'll hold you to this. Meet me in the year 2099 on the cloud near the Pearly Gates and we'll discuss the 21st century. Everything does change including our theories. You think differently now to 25 years ago. Perhaps you'll think differently in another 25 years. What I wrote was not a dream nor a joke but was arived at by some people's own experiences of some 'fleeting glimpses' they had. Perhaps it's all crap but it kind of sounds nice to me. Better than the Hindu stuff. I did say it wasn't science. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 13:52:32 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Well, it sounds nice to me too Message: Everything does change including our theories. You think differently now to 25 years ago. Perhaps you'll think differently in another 25 years. What I wrote was not a dream nor a joke but was arived at by some people's own experiences of some 'fleeting glimpses' they had. Perhaps it's all crap but it kind of sounds nice to me. Better than the Hindu stuff. I did say it wasn't science. David, You've told me what it isn't (dream or joke) and how you got it (kinda) but you still haven't said what it is. Is it what you believe to be true? I mean I agree it sounds nice and probably much better than the Hindu stuff. Do you think it's true though? Sorry for asking but too obsessive to stop, Jim P.S. Just because I might think differently 25 years from now doesn't mean I can't believe certain things are true now. What else can I do? You're right. I MIGHT be an old man bowing to Mecca with Salah there in 2024. But, like I say, what else can I do but work from my current belief system? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 21:25:57 (EST)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Jim Subject: Well, it sounds nice to me too Message: I can't say I believe all of what I wrote above completely but it does fit with my experiences and with my view of reality after 46 years, particularly since I found the Hindu philosophy so alien. There's no isms here and what I've mentioned has been gleaned from years of searching and listening to or reading about people's experiences either in sudden out of this world revelations or NDE's or messages from the beyond. I know it could all be discounted as hallucination but I've noticed a common thread of consistent information. The common thread was how very important is our life and our relationships with people we know. How what we do affects others tremendously and rather than trying to achieve some (supposed) spirituality, the nitty gritty of life which really matters is our ordinary material life and the people in it. Everything here is far from an illusion but of great importance. The other thread which seems to run through all is that God is far from being a detatched and perfect entity but is very much like us, and we like Him. But He seems to love us more than we'd have imagined and that bit blows people away when they see it. Us as individuals, that is. And then they realise that they have had and do have an eternal relationship with Him/Her/It. That there's no end to the story. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 13:41:14 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Sir David Subject: purpose and physical life Message: Where I believe Eastern thought is so wrong is that they assume that physical life has no purpose and one has to try to escape from it. They also think that individuals have no purpose and should become liberated from such a state. With respect, that's not really an accurate assessment of 'eastern thought' Sir D. Buddhism, at least vajrayana (or 'Tibetan') Buddhism for instance holds human life to be profoundly precious. Human life is a great gift. Buddhism is about insight into the nature of reality, not about escape from 'reality'. And there is great purpose, to relieve suffering, to help others, love others and know the truth. According to Buddhism the suffering is part of the nature of existence itself. Bodhisattvas pledge to relieve suffering and remain as long as such suffering exists. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 06:06:56 (EST)
From: op Email: None To: Sir David Subject: science guys handy? opinions? Message: A being we call God is expansive by nature and ceaselessly gives birth to new individual consciousnesses which are us. Not so that they will one day lose their individuality and disappear into God (as in Hinduism and Buddism) but so that they can also have a life. An individual existence in which they can explore and express their individuality, form relationships with other individuals and also have a relationship with God. These new consciousnesses are co-creators with God. So they are essensial and God learns from them and vice versa. They aren't seperate from God at all and down here, on the Earth, some of them get fleeting glimpses that they aren't seperate and never were. Now why doesn't this read as alien stuff to me? I've stated before on this forum that one of the most wonderful aspects of Knowledge, for me, is that our humanity is NOT denied. Our individualism is not denied. There are people from all walks of life, of all ages and cultures and lifestyles who are involved in M and Knowledge. My experience is that, as I practice more, I become more of who I am. And that is true for others as well. Not only is there no reason for me to imitate the local honchos or the instructors who travel to my town, but I would be self-defeating, cheating myself AND my experience if I try to accomplish that. As to human beings becoming God, in the sense that they can impose their will on creation, that's a whole other story. Because I do believe that there is an egotistical self (call it mind, if you insist, although use of that term had brought about some serious misinterpretations) that does aim for ultimate power - and is always thwarted by the real power that is. But I might write some more about that in answer to Jim's plaintive cries of 'Bruce and op, where are you???' down below. In the meantime though, David, I wonder why you say 'down here, on the earth'? Are you implying that the heaven of which you speak is somewhere beyond the clouds? That there is an absolute up and down in this universe, and that we are on the ground level and the upper echalons get the celestial penthouses? Maybe Applewhite and his crew really DID have the right idea :) The immeasurable universe is nothing but center everywhere. This is heaven, where we are. - Giordano Bruno Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 16:14:03 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: op Subject: That's dumb, op Message: I've stated before on this forum that one of the most wonderful aspects of Knowledge, for me, is that our humanity is NOT denied. Our individualism is not denied. There are people from all walks of life, of all ages and cultures and lifestyles who are involved in M and Knowledge. And by that argument I guess you could say the Moonies don't suppress their members' 'humanity' or 'individualism'. After all, people from 'all walks of life', etc. get involved in the group, right? How stupid. The question isn't how varied people are going INTO the group but rather how much individuality they MAINTAIN once they're there. And op, there's no way in the world you can tell me those voices on ELK are a hallmark of individuality. What a joke! And that is true for others as well. Not only is there no reason for me to imitate the local honchos or the instructors who travel to my town, but I would be self-defeating, cheating myself AND my experience if I try to accomplish that. But this is a great lie, of course! The whole point of these instructors, dumbo, is to set an example. The whole point of MAHARAJI is to set an example. You guys have VERY constrained social limits and expectations. And to think that you can't see it! Amazing. I do believe that there is an egotistical self (call it mind, if you insist, although use of that term had brought about some serious misinterpretations) that does aim for ultimate power - and is always thwarted by the real power that is. But I might write some more about that in answer to Jim's plaintive cries of 'Bruce and op, where are you???' down below. Oh, it's the 'serious misinterpretations' thing, is it? Tell me, op, how did YOU interpret all the things that m said about the mind which I quoted for Bruce? Now, before you do, think of this. M kept talking about the mind, right? Mind this, mind that. Plus he was always warnign us how TRICKY the mind was, right? It could impersonate 'the heart', it could impersonate the great hamster himself, right? So now are you going to come to us years later and explain how simple it was to really know what he meant and that he certainly DIDN'T mean the mind as we know it? Go fuck yourself big-time if you're even thinking of doing that, okay? Anyway, I just wanted to make that clear before you take your shot at answering whether m incited us to hate our minds. Your turn. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 15:15:10 (EST)
From: Mark Email: None To: Bill Ji Subject: science guys handy? opinions? Message: the way i've tried to avoid being respun into new thought systems is to wear them like garments ,see how they feel sort of treat philosophy and thought as a new buffet NOT Looking to repackage myself but understanding Understanding as the wings/winds of change ( as far as the business dimensions of all these philosophies, as long as it doesn't strike me as outrageous, i just treat it as an Entertainment expense-especially in light of these recent basketball/baseball salaries !) the other thing is some pretty focused activity into accessing my higher/inner self- like K techniques there is direct experience of self included, standard issue in all these systems so a basis for self-assessment of the experience is included. I recognize that Iand I alone am my most trusted spiritual guru its my show in the final analysis. So I do not to even Entertain any system that doesn't consider me AT LEAST tied for 1st place . . . and monitoring how it makes me feel, as well as think i think we are constantly spun to some small degree by all lines of thought ive been watching this Senate debate on and off each side is right as it speaks/how could i disagree i find myself thinking re Both Sides. eventually(hopefully) we get to an inclusive synthetic place on Clinton Maharaji and finally Ourselves continually breaking cups(with love and reverence for the process , and Graditude for the right/opportunity) to get our frequencies and guitars tuned to the cup that runneth over . . . Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 13:21:55 (EST)
From: Scott T. Email: None To: Mark Subject: in our cups... Message: Mark: continually breaking cups(with love and reverence for the process , and Graditude for the right/opportunity) to get our frequencies and guitars tuned to the cup that runneth over . . . This would be the difference between having your cup, and being in it? -Scott Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 15:33:01 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Everyone Subject: A comic about Maharaji Message: Wow! I doubt that we can publish it, but I sure want to get a copy of it and replace that dumb Superman comic book that Maharaji sold me so long ago. Premie or Ex-Premie Gerard Ashworth writes comics and he submitted one for review to click here to goto You Send It We Read It and search for Maharaj to read the review or goto Roger's House of Drek (link at bottom). Apparently, it was published in Modern Murder #30. New and Improved at the House of Drek under the Weak Links section are lots of new and interesting quirky weak links to Maharaji just like this one. Congratulations Ex-Premie.org! www.directhit.com comes up with www.ex-premie.org when you enter a search for Maharaji. This means that most people using search engines find www.ex-premie.org. We are Number One! click here for Roger's House of Drek for way off topic stuff Including the Chronicles of the Red Nighty P.S. Should Roger change the name of the site to The Drek Report? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 18:00:03 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: barney Subject: Maharaji Opinion Poll at Drek Message: The House of Drek has just added an opinion poll just like the big boys at CNN have. Goto the House of Drek and head for the Opinion Poll at the bottom (you can use the Opinion Poll short-cut link at the top of the page to get there.) click here for House of Drek P.S. to You Know Who You Are - Let's not stuff the ballot box on this, huh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 19:58:15 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: barney Subject: Cool Poll Barney (nt) Message: (nt) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 20:33:16 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Zac Subject: Cool Poll Barney Message: Thanks It was a freebie that I found and when it runs it goes to their website where the results are kept. You would not believe that legal thing I had to read to use the thing! All I wanted to know was if they were gonna spam my email which was required by them to get the tool. I can clear the results and enter a new question and new answers. I can also have custom responses for each answer like Sorry, Wrong answer you lunkhead! But, I won't do that because I want the House of Drek to be as impartial as a House Impeachment vote or a Senate Impeachment Trial. Unfortunately, the Java Script or something seems a little gunked up and if you View the results you end up voting again and the once scientifically valid results become invalid. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 21:13:17 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: barney Subject: Cool Poll Barney Message: Hey Barney, The site's cool and getting better. Any chance you can track down the comic itself? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 21:31:55 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Jim Subject: Cool Poll Barney Message: Yes, thanks. I'll tell Roger when he gets out of jail again in a day or two. I'd bail him out, but he scammed me the last time I did. It is, indeed, turning into the quirky collection of tidbits, isn't? The For-Your-Eyes-Only Secret plan is to have interesting content and what we might call impartiality and then sneak 'em over here on a 'busted link'. See my post up top on Gerard Ashworth. I'm trying to track him down on the Internet and use email before I resort to the snail mail address. It's a must-have! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 21:12:24 (EST)
From: Mr D Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: barney Subject: Don't forget these links Message: You may want to add the uncensored premie web site to your links on your excellent web site. (Or you may not) http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/8154/ You may also like to add Maharaji's Homepage to your page of links as well. The URL is; http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Island/6049/ Cheers. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 21:23:03 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Mr D Subject: Don't forget these links Message: yes, I've got the Athens one, but don't have the Tokyo one. I'll add that. I probably didn't name the one correctly. Thanks! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 14:31:28 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: Everyone Subject: Here's my answer Message: Bruce wrote to me on the premie forum: 'What I don't quite understand is why you claim to know this love yet spend so much of your time being hostile and trying to hurt anyone, let alone the person who only tried to increase your experience of this love, ie Maharaji.' The answer is this Bruce; Maharaji didn't try to increase my experience of any love that I'm talking about. He only tried to increase my experience of love for him. He would say that any love I'm talking about, i.e. love for friends, family or just people and creatures in general is a waste and that all love should be for him. So I consider Maharaji to be anti-love. In my own simple way I consider him to be AGAINST people loving their children, friends, lovers or their dogs, cats and anything else. He's against people loving such things because he considers himself to be the only object worthly of our love. I certainly know that Maharaji never showed me any experience of love. He just gave me a heavy trip which I wished I'd never got into in the first place. If I was religious, I'd call Maharaji the Devil. But I'm not religious, so I won't. But such a person who breaks up families, relationships and makes people's lives very difficult and gives totally impractical solutions to people with real problems and such a person who preys on mentally ill people and claims to be able to give them peace and yet instead gives them a whole new heavy trip to worry about, to the point where thay contemplate suicide - well what would you call such a person? Maybe the Devil isn't such a bad word after all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 21:22:10 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Here's my answer Message: Yessireee, Dave! You nailed it. I'm going to copy this one. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 21:44:40 (EST)
From: Liz Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Here's my answer Message: Way to Go Sir Dave, I'm really getting into this. I hope I'm not becoming and Internerd! (Afterthought) There have been so many irresponsible huge things done by M & yet I have been made to feel irresponsible & bad quite often by silly premies over silly little things and have beaten myself up over nothing. Well, NO MORE! At large events one can see a few bright together- looking premies (probably the rich inner circle) and a lot of lost-looking souls. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 22:31:23 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Liz/Sir D Subject: Here's my answer Message: Great post Sir D. Way to go, Liz Hi Liz, I used to be told that I was too this and too that when I was a premie and felt inadequate also. One premie called my intellect my 'outellect' meaning it brought me out of that 'inner' experience. It's kind of funny now that I think about it. There probably are together- looking premies and lost soul premies, a veritable kaleidoscope of premies in premie-land. But what's important is who you are, who you want to be, what you stand for, and what's important to YOU. Individuality & independent thinking is not exactly encouraged in premie land but it seems essential to adulthood, no? SO join into the forum and kick your shoes off, howl like a wolf with the rest of us ex-es. The forum CAN be kind of addictive--watch out! I figure it's better than watching TV: My brother in law wrote a poem on his fridge w/ those magnetic letters: 'TV is watching time drool over' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 07:48:09 (EST)
From: Bruce Email: freedom@universal.net.au To: Sir David Subject: Here's my answer Message: David, This is what you said But the greatest of all these is love, for if I know not love, I am like the dead Autumn leaves and my heart is a field of desolation. And though life can be hard I feel that it is worth it, every step of the way. Every tradgedy and misfortune that has befallen has cracked the ice and the sun has shone through. I feel that love is what we all are and the greatest thing has been to know this and even greater, has been the opportunity to give out this understanding to people I know. There is no striving there, no seperation. Only the reckognition of what is true for everyone, young and old, weak and strong. There is no belief there, no dogma nor religion; only the heart that understands the totality of our existence here and sees, with compassionate eyes, the heart of another and feels the true bond that exists between us all. The seperations and distinctions that appear between people on this page and those on the other page are but superficial. The road is very wide and we are all walking on it. For many years I walked on the same side of the road as you. Now I walk on the other side but I am not alone. God could never be seperated into different groups or practises. And He is always there for everyone. And this is what I replied: David, These are nice words.Yes, God is love and that love resides within us all. I know for sure that Maharaji helped and continues to help me be practically aware of the presence of that love within me. What I don't quite understand is why you claim to know this love yet spend so much of your time being hostile and trying to hurt anyone, let alone the person who only tried to increase your experience of this love, ie Maharaji. True love forgives, David. The ranters of expremie. org are not into forgiving. So to me that signifies an absence of the experience of love on the non forgivers' part. Kind regards, Bruce I almost didn't see your post as I don't have the time (or the desire) to read this forum with any regularity But since I asked you the question over there, I guess is manners to reply to your 'answer' over here. You forgot to include my reference to true love and forgiveness. That was my point, which you seem to have missed. Apparently you also missed the experience of meditation,which to me is one of beautiful feelings of love. Strange that, since you keep saying how you enjoy meditation. Perhaps you've forgotten, like a few expremies I know, that it was M. that showed you how to meditate in the first place. As for not being religious, are you kidding? have a look at what you wrote. David, despite what you may like to tell yourself, I've been around since the early 70's too, and I've ALWAYS understood that Maharaji was telling me to love myself, look within for the true lasting love the one thats unconditional, not dependent on changing factors. And you know what? He's right! That inner love is the ONLY love that has stayed with me. The others have come and gone. If you think that he was telling you to love only him, then man, no wonder you had a bad time! It was ,is ,and always has been about loving yourself David. Bruce Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 10:20:27 (EST)
From: AJW Email: anthginn@yahoo.com To: Bruce Subject: All you need is love. Message: Hi Bruce, Isn't it true that love needs a lover and a beloved? Sitting on my backside licking snot was not an experience of love in my book. My 'love' for Maharaji, as an individual, was one way traffic, and, looking back, I don't believe it was love. It was more on the level of a teenager's obsession with a rock star. So what remains? My mum and dad and wife and kids still love me, and some friends, and I love them. This love is human, involving give, take, communication, hugs, presents, relaxed conversations between two people with respect for each other, to scratch the surface. This love has lasted much longer than my relationship with Maharaji. And it's real. If I'm lucky, most of it will still be there when I die. Anth Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 10:59:55 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: AJW/Bruce Subject: All you need is love. Message: Exactly, AJW. That was the distinction that Sir D was making. The love for GM was a one-way ticket (to hell--ha ha). Did Maharaji come and help me when I had gall bladder surgery like my friends did? Did he comfort me when my dad-in-law shot himself like my mom did? Did he inconvenience himself to counsel me like my minister has? I mean what the hell kind of love are we talking about here. Love with no strings attached on Maharaji's part --except he also gets your dough, Bruce. Pretty sweet deal for him. If it's about loving yourself, as you say, why do you need the guru, it doesn't seem self-respecting or self-loving to rely on this guru who sponges off his devotees. Maharaji didn't show us love and self-respect. Maybe we learned those things the hard way through our ordeals in leaving him, but I agree with Sir D and AJW that he is not about love. I never heard him talk about loving and respecting yourself, never. He talked about 'going to a place within by Guru's Maharaji's grace'. In the most recent video I saw of him, he said trying to solve your own problems won't give you peace etc. How can you have peace, self-love and self-respect if you have a guru who doesn't encourage you to solve your own problems?? It seems to me that to have self-respect you also have to have self-reliance and that is antithetical to having a guru. I always felt a lot of underlying anxiety having a guru...it was not peaceful at all actually. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 12:17:49 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Helen Subject: All you need is leave! Message: he said trying to solve your own problems won't give you peace etc. Given the way premies listen to him, that makes the BM a real BASTARD, and humanly a very despicable person. I'll never show him ANY RESPECT as long as he'll keep saying that kind of stuff. And Bruce, yes this is love! I love my premies ex-friends, and NOT that person giving them such inane and inadmissible advice. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 12:26:43 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Right on, JM Message: JM: I didn't see that insidious little quote. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. It is unbelievable that people (us too) would think that by trying to solve problems, you would never experience peace. What a CROCK! The deepest peace that I've experienced has almost always accompanied the resolution of a 'problem.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 12:20:24 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: All you need is love. Message: Helen & AJW: Really good points. Might I add that if you don't love yourself, already, it's nigh on to impossible to love others (and vice versa). Since, we all seem to love and care for our families and friends already, then I submit that we have loved ourselves for just as long. Since we already love ourselves, then why would we need to be 'taught' something that we already know? I hope that wasn't too convoluted! he he he :-) By teaching us to love an, apparently, inanimate object within inside (phosgenes, snot, tinnitus and air) he is actually dehumanizing the love and, therefore, I submit that what we experienced WAS NOT love at all! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 12:14:40 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike/JM Subject: All you need is love. Message: Hey guys I would also submit that self-esteem and self-love come from facing and struggling with life's problems and being good people even when we 'feel' like being bad (ie, ripping off the company, being lazy, etc) Meditating away those struggles doesn't work as we all know. I'd rahter try and fail, knowing that at least I tried That quote about how solving problems doesn't give peace is from an AMaroo video, BTW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 19:39:06 (EST)
From: Liz Email: None To: Helen & AJW Subject: All you need is love. Message: I'm glad you're still with your wife and family after all youv'e been through together. I've just reread AJW's Journey and the drip , drip, drip part. It reminded me of one drip: I was waiting at a bus stop outside of a Longbeach 'performance' at the bus stop was a lady with a cane and her husband that I had been talking to on the beach previously. We had been at the stop a long time waiting, she was looking pretty tired. Along came more and more premies from out of the Longbeach Convention Centre. When the bus arrived I watched in horror whilst about twenty-five premies literally pushed her out of the way to get on the bus. Not M's fault you might say.....these premies had travelled miles from around the world and paid big bucks to be reconnected to their higher selves... and this was what was happening... I think they had paid big bucks to to be knocked unconsious....or have their brains swaddled (coddled) in the cotton-wool of bliss. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 21:35:28 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Liz Subject: All you need is love. Message: I had a very similar experience!!! That's when I realized what a horribly narcissistic trip this was and I had to get the hell out. That is a great story--would make a great scene in the Chronicles of the Red Nighty! Such an example of how the trip could make people lose track of regular human decency Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 11:24:04 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Here's my answer Message: I really don't think it's about loving oneself. That might be the gloss that's painted on it but it's never been about that. Why are there all the devotional songs to Maharaji, the darshan, and the photos and videos of Maharaji. No, it surely is about adoring Maharaji, which I don't. ANd regards meditation; how many premies ever have any experience of meditation? Precious few. I have known a lot of premies since 1972 and there's a tiny percentage of them who ever got anything out of meditation. You don't have to meditate to experience love inside yourself. That is a complete myth. Look at me. I can't meditate now even if I want to. Meditation is a linited and physical thing. It is not the infinite reality that people pretend it is. I have a brain disease which causes inflamation of the brain and super-sensitivity to any change in brain chemistry. Now if I ever get into meditation I am left with terrible pains in my head, dizziness and nausea for a few days afterwards. So meditation isn't going to help me now, is it. But there is much more to life than doing meditation and meditation is purely a subjective thing anyway. Some people might like it and some might not. Even when I did meditate (before my brain thing got too bad) it wasn't always a beneficial experience. People don't always get blissed out ot feel good when they do meditation. Any old premie knows that. I consider it a dangerous falsehood to make people think that meditation makes people feel happy or feel love or bliss or whatever. It isn't like that at all. ANd if anything is experienced from meditation, it's never consistently there. It's fleeting and certainly I know of nobody alive who has been able to base their life on it. Only Maharaji perpetrates this myth and he is hardly a good example. And finally, what's this about forgiveness? Who am I supposed to be forgiving and why? Are you suggesting that I should forgive Maharaji for something? Does that mean that you are suggesting he has done some error which needs forgiveness? But in any case, forgiveness works two ways. A person must ask to be forgiven by the person who forgives. Then forgiveness can take place. I see none of this in Maharaji's case. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 19:15:02 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Don't be stupid, Bruce Message: I've ALWAYS understood that Maharaji was telling me to love myself, look within for the true lasting love the one thats unconditional, not dependent on changing factors. AND to hate your mind which, in fact, you should surrender to him for safekeeping. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 22:21:31 (EST)
From: Bruce Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim the HATER Message: Jim, Since you are the man with all the quotes, show me ONE where Maharaji uses the word HATE in the way you assert, ie that premies should hate their minds. While you are at it, find quotes where Maharaji uses the word HATE for anything. Me thinks its you who's into hate, Jim. warm hugs from Bruce Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 22:41:04 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Bruce Subject: HI there Bruce Message: You have to be yourself of course and speak it as you see it now, but I dont think it is out of line to remind you that the past is not as sparkling as your edited presentation presents it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 22:53:00 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Gotcha!! Message: Bruce, You goof, he said it so often it's hilarious your denying it. Maybe not with the actual word 'hate' but I absolutely dare you to try to argue that these weren't hate messages against the mind: 1)'So that mind, that factor that's always against us, can get us; it has the potential of getting us. What I'm trying to say, is that I'm not trying to kid you when I say that the mind can zap you, the mind can get you. It can get you. And we have to be aware of that, and do something, and the only thing we can do to avoid that, is to surrender to Guru Maharaj Ji. ' *** 2)'This fly was broken; in the same way, the mind has to be broken. First of all, man has to close his carnal outer doors so that he may concentrate his heart on his devotion. Devotion is the stick and with his devotion he has to kill this crazy damn fly.' *** 3)'Mind has been created because two things are hitting each other. Your soul tries to hit and come out, you know. Not come out really, but just to give off this spiritual spark. Your souls wnats to give off this light, this peace inside which the soul has got. but outside it's very carefully covered with sins, egos, prides and so many things. So as soon as it tries to come out it hits against these coverings and something is produced. A holy thing hits against an unholy thing and another thing comes out, and that is ignorance. A complete vacuum. And that is your mind.' **** 4)'So premies, if we really look for a second into our hearts, truly within our hearts, and not fake ourselves out, we will find that one of the major problems that we have is our own mind. Our mind has become such a part of us, and it is a problem; it is that thing that has been creating so much mischief within inside of us. Therefore, we always need to keep that mind quiet, to keep that mind shut, to keep that mind out of the way.' Bruce, it goes on and on and ON. You know it too. God this is tiresome! It's like arguing with cult members or something. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 23:59:03 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Gotcha again, Brucie baby!! Message: Bruce, I just knew if I checked out what is commonly referred to here as 'JM's Excellent Site' I'd find more fo what you're looking for. So, you want some quotes where the fat fuck told us to hate our mind? Here's just a sampling of JM's collection: 1) 'THE mind is a snake and treasure is behind it. The snake lives over the treasure, so if you want that treasure, you will have to kill that snake, and killing the snake is not an easy job.' 2) 'I have been doing quite a few researches with handcuffs, and apparently it seems like, handcuffs are like this mind. The harder you press it, the tighter it gets on you. And that's the whole point of handcuffs ; to limit you. And that handcuff is just like a mind. There it is, that handcuff is inside of you which has completely limited you.' 3) 'And this is exactly how the Knowledge is - it's like a laser beam. And you've got to focus it to that crazy mind, and it's going to start from a point and then just burn the whole mind out - completely whole mind out!' 4) 'Q: Does evil come from our mind? Answer: Right ! Exactly. Do you know, the evil is the son of man that comes to mind, through mind, from mind!' Now I hope you have the guts to stay here and discuss this point, Bruce, because it's time, at last, for you to admit you're wrong. Maybe you can minimize the damage by acknowledging that m did indeed train us to hate our minds but that that was a good thing. Go for it. That's a viable argument (I know, seeing as I personally bought it for years). You can retreat to that position and maintain your cult membership easily enough. Before you go, though, you owe me an apology. You called me unnecessarily negative because I simply reminded you that, amongst all the love talk, m also inspired hatred of our own minds. That was wrong. I was right. Don't be a worm. Apologize. Say, 'Jim, I'm sorry. You were right. All these quotes prove beyond any even slight discussion that Maharaji did indeed engender hatred of the mind. Fear, too, for that matter. But you never said that, Jim, so we won't get into it. (This is, after all, MY cult, too, you know?) But as for 'hate', yeah, I have to hand it to you. I'm a fool for arguing the point. Please forgive me.' You do that, Bruce, and I'll think of inviting you to my next birthday party. (The last was a blast.) So, come on, I don't have all night. Bruce? Bruce, where are you, Bruce? Bruce? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 00:19:52 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: BRUCE!! Where are you, buddy? Message: Come on, Bruce, you're spoiling my Friday night. Bruce? Aw fuck it. Okay, just for you, (nt). This is now a (nt) post. So there! I WAS going to share another anti-mind quote or two with you, but you're not here. Like this one: 'It was just like this mind. Once it throws you over, what chance have you got? You try to climb aboard, or you try to even -- you can't do anything, it's just got you. You know, it's just got you. *** So that mind, that factor that's always against us, can get us; it has the potential of getting us. What I am trying to say is that I'm not trying to kid you when I say that the mind can zap you, the mind can get you. It can get you. And we have to be aware of that, and do something, and the only thing we can do to avoid that, is to surrender to Guru Maharaj Ji.' Bruuuuuoooce?? BRUCE!! BRUCE!! Aw, fuck it. NT. (By the way, if you want to get into 'M on love' I've got some real doozies!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 03:17:06 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Jim Subject: BRUCE!! Where are you, buddy? Message: Hey Jim, Do you remember in the 70s when he said something like 'At the next Guru Puja we are going to have Arti twice, yes twice! and I will break the backbone of the mind'. We really thought that after the festival it would all be over and we would be in bliss. Jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 10:08:18 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Oh, but he was just kidding! Message: Hey Jim, Do you remember in the 70s when he said something like 'At the next Guru Puja we are going to have Arti twice, yes twice! and I will break the backbone of the mind'. We really thought that after the festival it would all be over and we would be in bliss. Jethro, I don't. Which one was it? I do remember that the more I felt that I was 'remembering' 'that place inside', the more I thought I was 'returning home again', like when I'd get really worked up at a three-day satsang marathon in our community, or on an ashram meditation retreat, or when Maharaji gave particularly heavy satsang and, instead of freaking out a bit (as I sometimes did) I just sat there with my eyes closed and tried to really 'get into it', the more I hated my mind which, in those moments, I believed was keeping me from 'that love' all the rest of the time. We were like obssessive compulsives cleaning our hands fifty times a day, scrubbing away -- in our minds -- AT our minds! Such loathing he inculcated! Our satsang, at those times, was like the ritualized self-denunciation of the Chinese Cultural Revolution. Damn the mind! Man MR. Mind! Only the Mind was standing between us and our 'destination'. And it was the Mind, never forget, that had made us get all cocky in 1976. I can't wait for Bruce to come back and deal with this. Bruce? You up yet? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 10:24:14 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: P.S. - Bruce, op Message: BTW, I mean 'DAMN Mr. Mind' (not 'MAN Mr. Mind'). But you know what else we were like? Ever read that book in the Narnia series, I think it was Prince Caspian? The one where the guy's kept a prisoner by some bitch/witch ice queen, down in the basement of her castle. By day he's completely bewitched and unaware of who he really is. He's allowed to go wherever he wants because he doesn't know he's actually a captive prince. At night, though, the spell recedes so he has to be tied to this chair lest he run away. We were like that. We thought we were REALLY these spiritual 'princes' (and 'princesses' of course) who were trapped by the wicked spell of Mr. Mind and forgetful of our true nature. Maharaji gave lots of satsang to this effect. Then, when we remembered that, through the gifts of his satsang, service, meditation or darshan, we realized our predicament. Caught by the Mind and praying for his grace to take us home for once and for all. Tell me I'm just imagining this, Bruce. Tell me I'm dreaming, op. Come on, guys, don't keep me waiting! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 10:16:21 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Okay, how about you, op? Message: Hey op, What's your take on this? Bruce talked about Maharaji being all about love. I reminded him that Maharaji also advocated hatred of the mind. Bruce said that I was the one who was 'into hate', not Maharaji. That Maharaji had never used the word 'hate'. Then I showed him all these quotes where Maharaji talks about the mind as a 'snake', a 'fly', 'poison', etc., saying that we have to 'kill' it, 'zap' it, and all that shit. What do you say? Did Maharaji incite hatred of the mind or not? Yes or no? Simple question. I'm not interested in some long, chatty talk-around, I'm just asking you a simple question. Did he or didn't he? Yes or no? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 16:33:54 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: Bruce, Jim, Sir David Subject: hate and who has said it Message: i don't want to get too deep with the sir dave-jim-bruce energy axis but i have heard maharaji use 'hate' recently but can't quote chapter and verse and which hall it was in or which tape... he was talking about 'loving the love and hating the hate' or something like that... once again, i don't have the exact quote but i definitely remember the word coming from his mouth because it struck me funny to hear that word from him... jesus said to love all, even those who hate. that reverbs inside of me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 16:39:33 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: shp Subject: The real question Message: Shp, The real question is do you agree that Maharaji tried to get us to hate and fear our minds? Well? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 19:41:54 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: shp's answer Message: The real question is do you agree that Maharaji tried to get us to hate and fear our minds? >i had experiences before maharaji that taught me that i had something inside me (as all humans do) that is not working in my long-term best interest....that if god is within, then so is the devil/illusionist/satan (satan means illusionist). maharaji called this thing the 'mind', and in his own way, explained that this 'mind' was to be avoided and not trusted. i can see how his advice could be misunderstood or misinterpreted, such as to not trust the creative processes, the imagination, the intellect etc. i do understand your question, and it's loaded. i believe he tried to get us to seek other inner counsel besides our illusionist within for answers to life's questions, and that other inner counsel is the indwelling presence of the holy name, holy spirit, god, whatever you want to call it. like the word maya (that which can be measured = the finite world = the illusion = that which changes), it is to be wary of, but here we are in the middle of it. that is what i believe his message was. i don't think it was a plot to control us, although there are other things in the stew that may still need to be resolved on this issue. there, you now have my answer, jim. and btw, if i don't answer you in what you consider a timely fashion, chill out. i don't sit here constantly and watch this tube for your high-sign. i'll get back to you or else i'm dead or incapacitated, or i'll give you the courtesy that i'm off for some days at a time, like recently. man, you need a hobby.....and btw i still want the details of that boating accident, as probably does roger for his believe it or not site. later dooooooood! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 21:34:03 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: shp Subject: shp's answer Message: i do understand your question, and it's loaded. Oxford again: 'loaded -- (of a question or statement) charged with some hidden or improper meaning.' Is that what you meant, shp? Really? What 'hidden or improper meaning' do you ascribe to my question? shp, you are so full of shit. Just another m apologist and no, I don't see you ever changing. Your threads are stripped as far as I'm concerned. There's no 'misunderstanding or misinterpretation' here, pal. Don't you even THINK of telling me I didn't know what he was talking about. The fact is, m declared the mind the enemy. Full stop. How you can read those quotes and try to squeeze past that one would be surprising if I thought you could think straight. But I don't so it's not. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 22:05:04 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: shp Subject: closer look at stupid answer Message: >i had experiences before maharaji that taught me that i had something inside me (as all humans do) that is not working in my long-term best interest....that if god is within, then so is the devil/illusionist/satan (satan means illusionist). shp, first I DO find it a little irritating that you persist in reversing the common symbol stuff for quoted text. Why do you do that? Everyone and their mother who uses the net expects that the 'carrot' sign goes with quoted, not new, text. Why don't you comply with that? Is this an expression of your brilliant individuality? Are you just stubborn? Trying to confuse people? What is it? Beside that, what if there ISN'T a god within, shp? Why do you always assume so much and carry on as if that's the only way to consider a question? maharaji called this thing the 'mind', and in his own way, explained that this 'mind' was to be avoided and not trusted. What's this 'in his own way' qualifier? See what you're doing? Even when you don't have a single substantive support to offer the guy you're trying to find a way to cushion his fall. Can you see that? That's called being an apologist. You don't know what you're going to say but even as you say it you know it's going to be defensive. What a joke for you to call yourself 'objective'. i can see how his advice could be misunderstood or misinterpreted, such as to not trust the creative processes, the imagination, the intellect etc. Well, again, that's just despicable nonsense. It's nice to see you make a fool of yourself again. Are you saying that all of us here just 'didn't get' m's message but you did? Let's talk about this. My mind now is full of doubt that m is the Lord. I'd say that's the function of my intellect AND imagination. After all, my intellect is the thing that shows me how to analyse the situation, rightly or wrongly, and my imagination helps me speculate how it might be that this guy's gotten as far as he has or hasn't defrauding people. Now, are those functions in me part of the 'mind' that m's talking about? Hm? They're the very ways of thinking that took me right out of his control. Is that the 'mind' or not? i do understand your question, and it's loaded. i believe he tried to get us to seek other inner counsel besides our illusionist within for answers to life's questions, and that other inner counsel is the indwelling presence of the holy name, holy spirit, god, whatever you want to call it. My question isn't 'loaded' so much as your answer's stupid and evasive. (Note that you never did answer my question, by the way.) I'm not asking about the 'holy spirit' within. I'm asking about the mind. You seem to be willing to chastise the 'illusionist' within but what else is there, shp? When you think how many minds do you have? Is the mind that now entertains doubts about m your 'illusionist'? If so, why do you listne to it? like the word maya (that which can be measured = the finite world = the illusion = that which changes), it is to be wary of, but here we are in the middle of it. that is what i believe his message was. i don't think it was a plot to control us, although there are other things in the stew that may still need to be resolved on this issue. You dolt. M told us to surrender the reigns of our life to him, let him control our minds through s, s and m. If that wasn't a plot to control... well, I don't know what to say. That you're an idiot? I've already said that so many times. Help me out here, shp. What can I say? That you're ... oh forget it. there, you now have my answer, jim. And are YOU content with this drivel that you call an answer? Is that enough for you? Like you've really explored the issue, given it your honest reflection and have answered it fully? What a joke you are! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 23:26:57 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: a last look at jim's ego Message: your job as an attorney owns you. i don't have the time to play perry mason. your communication techniques are as ruthless and ill-tempered as some of the premies you criticize, and i don't differentiate assholes as having knowledge or not. i know some premies and ex-premies who are cool and i know some premies and ex-premies who are assholes. god makes asshsoles in all sizes and you are one of the biggest ones i have ever met, with or without knowledge. and i think you revel in that, being a lawyer with an overstimulated ego who can get on this site and rip and tear everyone because you do it for a living. you aren't worth my time anymore. i'll find out what i have to about m without the likes of you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 23:33:22 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: shp Subject: thanks for all that Message: shp, Best of luck in your new ventures. May I suggest that you touch base with Keith for a little moral support? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 10:38:15 (EST)
From: shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: your 'keith' weapon Message: ohmygod! you said the other k-word!!!!!!! i have been branded and weakened by being associated with 'keith' by his jimness. whatever will i do now??????? and you can touch base with every other asshole who manipulates words and people to powertrip through life for your moral support. the 'scarlet letter' game you play is getting way old. it's just a way for you to avoid all the things i said to you about your problem. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 19:47:20 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: shp Subject: shp's answer Message: 'that if god is within, then so is the devil/illusionist/satan (satan means illusionist).' Sheesh, Sandy, satan means 'adversary', not illusionist! Where do you get this stuff? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 02:05:43 (EST)
From: dv Email: None To: Bruce Subject: It's kinda hard to forgive a Message: serial killer who is still killing serially. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 03:09:55 (EST)
From: Bruce Email: None To: Jim.shp etc Subject: HATE? No way! Message: Jim, so sorry to leave you alone with your radiation screen on a Friday night. How sad! Nothing better to do on a Friday night. And all in vain too. Jim. Your quotes prove my point. I said that Maharaji never used the word hate in describing how we should regards the 'mind'. Clearly, he doesn't. If you want to equate warnings about something which potentially can make problems for people as an urge to hate something, then that's your bias and your problem. I live in one of the most beautiful areas of Australia( and therefore the world). On the beach there is a warning about rips and swimming betwen the flags. Getting caught in a rip can be fatal. Does that mean we are being urged to HATE rips? Of course not. No Jim,the Jury's out and you lose. In all those millions of words that M has spoken, only shp can remember one example of the word hate, and that sounded strange coming from M lips he said. So why does it come off your lips to easily? Bruce Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 10:38:38 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Bruce, the MORON! Message: Bruce: You really are a MORON, in every sense of the word! If KILLING THE MIND doesn't mean the exact same thing as HATING THE MIND. I suppose that YOU believe that a murderer doesn't hate their victims! YOU have proven cult-think, in the extreme! Rationalization at EVERY possible turn and complete faith in a TOTAL FRAUD. Rationalize-away, BRUCE! At least you have to USE your mind to rationalize, so it's getting SOME exercise! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 10:58:40 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: 'Get a life' she said Message: I've only got a moment here. I noticed my old friend, Sue Raven's, post on ELK so I called her. She told me she went through her period of doubts years ago and now is in a 'really good place'. I, on the other hand, am not. I'm obsessed and ...... Maharaji doesn't make a dime from any of this. EV is so 'airtight' there's no way in the world he could be skimming money. But even if he did, he could have Kazillions of dollars, it wouldn't matter. She's focused on her experience and not Maharaji. When Maharaji first pulled the plug on the devotional trip years ago, I freaked out. I really need to get a life. If the information on this site is so damning why haven't more premies who've read it left? She doesn't give a dime. It's not about money! Again, Jim, you gotta get a life. She had to run and now so do I. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 15:41:44 (EST)
From: y? Email: None To: Jim Subject: 'Get a life' she said Message: Jim, If Sue Raven 'does't give a dime' you can bet others in her community must do. Otherwise how does she 'keep in touch' watching videos etc? As for 'it isn't a money thing'. How does M maintain his extravagant lifestyle if he doesn't skim money from E.V. etc and he doesn't ask for personel donations. Does he get a substantial pay cheque as President of the Company or something? I suppose E.V. isn't listed as a non-profit organization or is it? What mystifies me is HOW does he manage to do it legally (or illegally) and get away with it. Any ideas? Perhaps J.M. knows if he was involved in E.V. for a while or was he 'above' such financial details as an Instructor? By the way I really appreciate J.M.'s honesty. Sorry I'm asking all these questions but I'm one of these people who have been wearing blinkers for a long time to 'keep on the path'. (Oh, I forgot there is no path these days is there)? and only see what I wanted to see so as not to rock my 'spiritual boat'and to keep my little self happy.'I'm in a really good space right now' really rings a bell even if I haven't been in one for quite sometime. Now it's about time I got my facts straight even if I do get a little seasick for a while...and hopefully start experiencing the real truth. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 21:42:40 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: y? Subject: Nice to meet you, y! Message: Isn't it great to feel a little freedom after all these years? We're all trying to remove those blinkers. Finally the blind see and the deaf hear, eh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 04:26:04 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: y? Subject: M's income need a page Message: Hi y, Thank you for your appreciation. This issue has been explained several time here in details. I guess it deserves a permanent page on this website, or on mine. Have you ever been a part of fundraisings, or participation meetings? Basically m receives 'gifts' in cash and in checks on his bank account, which is perfectly legal in the US, and doesn't pay ANY taxes on these gifts. His bank account # has been and very likely still is distributed at EV's meetings. These gifts come from individuals (premies). EV has a whole underground international system to 'inform' premies of m's 'needs' through a network of friends. The heads of this are Yoram Weisz, and a few PAM. Yoram (paid by EV) and his assistants keep having phone conferences with their assistants in the various cities and countries, and touring for meetings with premies. Of course this is NOT officially organized by EV, and one could say that EV has nothing to do with it! This is only a matter of interpretation. These 'individual' gifts are a good part of m's income. Then some PAM are head of companies where premies have been & are still very likely influenced (direct service for m) to work for no money or very little wages: these companies make $ 10s of millions benefits/year, that is GIVEN to m. This is the truth about those famous 'rich premies' supporting m's lifestyle. The main company is AMTEXT/TEXTMART, run by Chuck Nathan. Several ex-premies involved in this business have sent testimonies here. There are also several service companies, owned by premies, who work and are paid by EV/Visions for various businesses: video production, travel agencies, etc. All those profits are 'donated' to m. EV of course doesn't give anything to the BM directly! It's merely organizing conferences and video distribution! Same thing for his plane that's owned by a private company, and that's been receiving 100s of millions from the EV foundation in Switzerland. Plus 5 to 10% commission m gets (donated) on hotel rooms, hall renting, flight tickets (I've been a part of the system) when he holds conferences. Make some calculations. Plus what's given in cash at every darshan (millions). Of course EV doesn't give anything anymore! beside the extravagant hotel suites rented here and there, and about 10,000 $/day for the 'principal' private expenses whenever he comes around. Like in France for instance, EV even owns a credit card for this very use (the principal's private expenses when he comes - will he ever dare come again?). I guess it's the same everywhere. Of course EV has NOTHING TO DO with this! LOL LOL!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 13:05:05 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Thanks JM Message: Yes, we need to keep being reminded of where M gets his money, and why those statements that he isn't paid by EV are so off the point. A permanent discussion of this on the website is very important, in my opinion, so anyone who is interested, especially premies, can see it and ask questions accordingly. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 17:30:36 (EST)
From: A Concerned Premie Email: None To: Jim Subject: 'Get a life' she said Message: You should listen to Sue, Jim. She's only thinking of your own best interests and she is, of course, right. The grace of Maharaji manifests everywhere, even with you, Jim and Sue can tell that she is in a 'good place.' Being in places that are good is so beautiful. It means you have no doubts, don't have to think, and can be instant judges of other people, such as knowing that you, friend, are NOT in a good place. How could you be, you have so many doubts, and Sue knows because she reads your posts religiously, but can never admit to that? As for your obsession, well, that's obvious, isn't it? And of course Maharaji doesn't make a dime from EV and Sue knows this from the audited financial statements from EV that she receivers quarterly. And of course, he doesn't skim money and never has, and besides he doesn't do it anymore, and even if he did it doesn't matter. All that matters is being in a good place. And of course it isn't about money -- it's about an experience And the wonderful, divine thing about Maharaji and knowledge, which Sue knows so well, is that whatever is troubling, like Maharaji and his obscene lifestyle, his skimming activities, drinking and adulteries, can just be ignored and you just focus on something else, like your own experience. It enables you to avoid all that is troubling, thought-provoking, difficult to reconcile or explain. Isn't that just so beautiful? It's such a beautiful place that is peaceful, peaceful and good. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 17:39:06 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: A Concerned Premie Subject: Who is that masked man? Message: LOL LOL.... Quote of the day: 'And of course, he doesn't skim money and never has, and besides he doesn't do it anymore, and even if he did it doesn't matter.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 21:34:19 (EST)
From: Maharaji Email: None To: Mike Subject: I do it, I do it, I do it, I Message: do it for MONEY! (Sing along) Here's my latest ad mag. Live Satellite Event: Video = $19 US Audio $7 New KEEP IN TOUCH MAG (replaces AIID) Renewal Video - 'You have to renew your relationship with your Master again and again...the sun has to rise every morning..the process of renewing in nature happens again and again..' Maharaji Selected excerpts from Pasadena, Calf., 1995 including a background of nature images and music (SORRY ABOUT THE 1995 VERSION BUT WE NEED TO FLOG IT AGAIN FOR MORE $$$$$). All my other trinkets are still for sale. Please premies: Do not persist in this useless endeavour. Don't you know you are mine. I belong to you. You belong to me. Do not hesitate. Make it real today. Love and blessing to all the premies (EVEN YOU BACKSLIDERS). Sant Ji (aka LOTU) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 23:47:22 (EST)
From: maha Email: None To: Maharaji Subject: I do it, I do it, I do it, I Message: Linda gross may give us some flak because she doesnt think you read or post here but that is for the legal dept to handle when he is not on vacation. Nice to see you posting. Might as well be frank and out in the open. How in the hell do eat those hot peppers! And what is your latest kitchen creation? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 22:12:13 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: Who is that masked man? Message: Depends on what your definition of *is* is. Ho ho Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 21:41:03 (EST)
From: y? Email: None To: A Concerned Premie Subject: 'Get a life' she said Message: To That Concerned Premie, I LIKE IT! very tongue in cheek (as apposed to tongue on roof of mouth or back of throat if you did really well)! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 10:57:48 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Hamzen's Journey Message: I uploaded Hamnzen's Journey this morning. Thanks, Ham. On another note, we've now served up over 1,000,000 posts read since mid-April. Does Maharaji ever sleep??? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 17:41:01 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Brian Subject: 1,000,000 posts read Message: Let's see thats 1,000,000 divided by 9 months divided by 30 days is 3703 divided by 30? posts read per day is 123 people reading everything. There are approximately 50 ex-premie regulars who miss little judging by their posts. There are probably 15 premies doing 'service'for M who read everything 3 times and another 25 premies who think they are doing service and read everything only once. That leaves Maharaji, shp and me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 18:27:41 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Zac Subject: Give it up Message: I have no idea who is reading what here, and neither does anyone else. Nice try though. Besides, Maharaji doesn't actually read anthing on the site. He just looks at the pictures. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 21:19:15 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Hamzen Subject: Thanks for your journey's Message: entry and your support over the last few months. Glad to see you back. I guess I was one of the multitude who wasn't really ready for K. Too bad I got it anyway, eh? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 03:22:27 (EST)
From: ham Email: None To: Gail Subject: Thanks for your journey's Message: Thanks for that Gail. For me the thing that pissed me off about this whole failed experiement was that gm himself did so little in the way of real support & encouragement. So glad this site has been here to show me all the difficulties were about him, not the people involved in following. When you see a site like this you realize just how many really good people were involved, with high levels of committment who were just wasted. If gm had been serious about this whole thing just imagine what he could have set up and brought to the world! Such a shame, such a waste or is that divine waist! Having to make the most of visiting because it looks like a short stay of execution. Hows things going? You seem to be in a pretty clear space. Ain't it great the way all these new people are arriving. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 23:02:09 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Brian Subject: Hamzen's Journey Message: As usual Ham, you catch my interest. Your Journey could be longer if you ask me. I know I had to develop a very strong blocking mechanism because the lord ran so contrary to all my life and desires. His promises just extended into the endless horizon and became the carrot hanging in front of the donkey never to be attained. NOW, he is claiming it is just to breath with appreciation of the master ect. But before it was an 'experience' that we couldnt attain ourselves. And even the instructors were told THEY were just scratching at it and hadn't scratched the surface yet of this 900 ft. steel wall. So my denial of my own self was even more brutal because the LORD was so severe and we were stuck. All the premies were under this same torture rack and I guess thats why we were so freaky to each other. I was using acid as a means to discover also. My last acid trip was the last because during it I recognised there was another intelligence that was with me in those moments and so that was my next research area. Unfortunatly prem rawat decided to go mental on us searchers. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 03:21:39 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: bill Subject: Hamzen's Journey Message: Didn't prempal say that taking acid was cheating your way to god? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 20:21:41 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Hamzen's Journey Message: Hi Jethro bodine. Here is the quote as I remember it. I have it somewhere. 'Lsd is like an airplane that takes you above the clouds but your fuel runs out and you come down. Knowledge does not run out of fuel.' something like that Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 03:53:28 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: bill Subject: Hamzen's Journey Message: Hi bill Thamks for the quote. what does 'bodine mean? regards jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 01:51:09 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Hamzen's Journey Message: Jethro Bodine was the name of the Jethro in the beverly hillbillies. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 06:55:31 (EST)
From: ham Email: None To: bill Subject: Bill's Journey Message: Thanks for the compliment Bill. What do you feel were the major areas, key elements of yourself that were so 'brutalized'? I'm especially interested at the moment in what should have been encouraged psychologically, if it had been for real & been run with real care and attention to detail. As in a garden nursery any real growth needs real support, nurturing and encouragement, especially in a topic area that is so concept challenging. How do you explain to yourself those experiences of 'another' intelligence that you had on acid? The posting for my journeys entry is just the starting point, like a trigger node. It hints at a number of key themes of importance to me. Bill, big big up to you too. I find something quite leftfield about your posts that I really appreciate. It gives you a unique take on things, an angle I've always appreciated in others. I do miss SRB though! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 01:53:29 (EST)
From: srbill Email: None To: ham Subject: Bill's Journey Message: How about I respond to you up near the top in your new thread? Tomorrow. stark raving Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 19:44:12 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Red Nighty ISO experienced... Message: Get your mind right! But, I got your attention didn't I? The Chronicles of the Red Nighty is issuing a casting call. You can write your part (however, we have editors from ELK that might change your work) or simply provide technical details and an outline on the area of your expertise. The idea here is to present an historical fiction piece tracing some of the stranger-than-fiction experiences. -------------------------------------------- Needed: A character from the UK, Britain, England (how many names does that place have?) Character must be willing to be transplanted stateside. This would be most desirable for the storyline, after all, was not England the stepping stone to the West from the subcontinent. Male or Female. Experience in sexual activity is not required. Character can remain celibate for the duration of the project. Required experience includes: Early days of DLM -------------------------------------------- Needed: Characters from France, South America, Australia, and even Canada. Especially, France! Did anyone know Francois? J-M would you care to be immortalized? -------------------------------------------- Needed: Characters from small towns willing to relocate to the Los Angeles or Miami area. -------------------------------------------- Needed: Characters from Denver during the DLM IHQ days at the Kitteridge (sp?) Building and Dahlia St. Perhaps, willing to stay in Denver and marry and raise a family. However, travel to festivals may be required. -------------------------------------------- Needed: Characters with behind the scenes experience at Millenium, Soul Rush, The City of Love and Light, Rainbow Grocery, working or building the Residences etc. -------------------------------------------- Note: While there is great uncertainty that we will be able to afford to live in Malibu from this effort, we can guarantee that we can keep your identity secret. Visit Roger's House of Drek for more information and The Chronicles of the Red Nighty at: click here for Roger's House of Drek Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 22:51:43 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: barney Subject: ISO experienced? Message: Geek illiteracy! I am supposed to knw what ISO is aren't I? uh, call me insulated. Qu'est que c'est? (did I get that right Jim?) Barney I have to take a break from Nighty and forum until I appease the work God's. they want me to do somehting! I am so in shock! May be a while, I have to set up 5 on line classes, MOO and Forum stuff ( both of which I have been avoiding quite successfully for quite some) I'll be back - as if you didn't know that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 23:34:50 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Selene Subject: ISO experienced? (ot) Message: Well, not that I'm an expert, but I think that the term comes form Personal Ads and might mean Is Seeking Other. Actually, I really don't know. Maybe that's why I get all these phone calls and all I hear is 10 seconds of a dog barking and then the flushing of a toilet followed by the sound of an alarm clock and then tortured screaming. But, if you're married you probably don't come across any of that kind of stuff in the Personals. Yes, I should work too. Tomorrow or the next day we will conquer both the Literary and the Internet Worlds. All gory to God! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 00:41:47 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking Email: none@doesnotexist.not To: barney Subject: Casting call .. Red Nighty Message: > Needed: Characters from Denver during the DLM IHQ days at > the Kitteridge (sp?) Building and Dahlia St. Perhaps, > willing to stay in Denver and marry and raise a family. However, travel to festivals may be required. I have much of the experience you need and have proven my ability to blindly follow where few have gone, please accept my resume for consideration Came to Denver in 1973, lived on the 7th floor and worked on the remodel of the 6th floor offices of the Kittridge building, spent 3 months in Houston 1973 working on the stage, expecting it to fly away when I realized it wouldn't be down in time for sundays football game (my future and past religion) was returned to Denver where I was able to work on remodeling the many houses we rented from Joe Silver including the house that had the black room with the chains and all paraphanallia (sp) installed. Worked on the Joe Silver warehouse where Rainbow foods first was along with the print shop, worked on the sound studio, the Laundromat, on private projects that generated revenue, worked on the remodel of HIS bedroom in the Dahlia street residence, including the removal of the flocked red velvet wallpaper, ( which a qualified author should be able to tie into a red nighty and replaced it with redwood paneling and a be that 'floated'and had mirrors below (more red+floating mirrors)) perused the construction of the private 6th floor office, worked on the Orlando 75 stage for 3 months, worked on Unity school, did not get to get married while I was in the ashram but had a slightly warm affair. Had access to a vehicle many times which made very popular even with people that didn't like me. Bough ice cream at the baskin robbins on colfax immediately after the ssang where he spoke about premies who always had to go there, would have felt guilty but saw Bob M. and the in crowd there so I knew it must be okay. I may be reached via email at none@doesnotexist.not or by posting further requirements. I may be interrupted over the next ten days as at the end of next week while many in this country make there pilgrimage to Miami for play I travel to gambling Mecca and place my annual wager on THE GAME which was begot from the championship and is now the most religious experience I have on an annual basis. I was unable to find the place to post on your link which is further evidence of my ability.! a true beliver Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 01:42:32 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Ben Lurking Subject: Casting call Red Nighty (ot) Message: Ben, Oh yes, we've hit paydirt, bingo, home run, goal, touchdown! Your experience is so rich that you might deserve a complete character. Ben, do you want to develop your character? I think that the plan would be having chapters outside of the main story that develop in parallel and that character will get woven into the story as either a minor or a major character after your personal knowledge of details winds down and is no longer relevant. Perhaps, another person with experience in the new time frame or new locale can take over the character after the character gets transferred to the new mecca. you can respond back here at the Forum or at Roger's email at click here to email Roger7000@hotmail.com Look forward to hearing from you. And while in Mecca remember to do as the Romans do. Also, Roger's email is at the top of his page: click here for Roger's House of Drek for way off topic stuff Including the Chronicles of the Red Nighty Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 08:05:30 (EST)
From: fly Email: None To: Ben Lurking Subject: Casting call .. Red Nighty Message: remember that prem rawat came to see his denver home and they slaves were in a rush and someone put some construction debris in the attic to be taken out later and rawat went through the house and found it and said 'see how much my premies love me' and someone told the story at satsang and the worker felt all guilty. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 15:23:09 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: fly Subject: Casting call .. Red Nighty Message: I remember he came back early once - maybe from amherst and joan? the whatever you call the woman who lived there freaked out that he was there 'early and unanounced' when we were sent away we were given specific instructions to tell absolutley no one. I got called at the premie house after and was told to bring a truck out to the residence - when I got there, I was there (at nite) to haul the trash which now that I think about it had quite a bit of liquor bottles in it. I forget what happened but the next day we couldn't go to the residence and we couldn't tell whoever was sending us there that we couldn't go so we went somewhere else on some story - I think I finally had to tell someone else that wanted the truck to go out and check something - it was a couple of days before he was 'officially' in town. And LUCKY ME I knew the big secret, this was where true power came to premies knowing something about MJ that no one else knew. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 19:28:28 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Ben Lurking Subject: Clinton & Maharaji Message: SOmehow this reminds me of Clinton's people rushing Clinton's women out of the back door of the Democratic headquarters while Hilary came in the front door. The premie world was/is rife with politics & with GM's 'handlers' covering his tracks everywhere... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 00:20:37 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Ben Lurking Subject: thank you forum Message: Yeah, you remind me, your right. The grapevine was it's main manifestation. the service hierarchy was too. In hartford ct. the ashram upperdust would dole out info to thier inner circle and the lower dust would know they were left out because the upper dust dropped hints. Some istructors fed into that also. In miami I had a sixth sense about where he was or where he was going and security at the residence did an investigation because they figured we had a spy inside the close org. because we kept showing up at the right place and the right time. But, our little gopi pack just could get together and someone would say 'he is going to the airport!' and we would head out and sure enough, that is one of the reasons I had a hard time leaving the belief that he was lord. But by his own words and deeds it is apparent that life works with and around your beliefs and like jesus/Yeshua said,'as you believe, so shall it be done unto you'. I believed, and life respected and went along with that because I was innocent and I was freed when I could be. thank you forum Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 09:06:31 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: bill Subject: thank you forum Message: That is interesting what you just said Bill. I believe that also, that the 'universe' confirms our beliefs at times. I've had a couple of experiences like this. One day I was laying on my bed, rather tormented as to whether I should covert to Judaism (something I've thought about a lot). I worried that if I became Jewish I'd embrace one doctrine and became more narrow rather than more loving--I worried that I'd lose the sense of universality that I was raised to have. Then I went to the hairdresser and was waiting for my haircut, still mulling all this over (I really was having sort of a crisis). The woman next to me and I started chatting, turns out she's Jewish and the head of the meditation circle at her synagogue. She just said flat out that Judiasm is one way to God, among many, that God is all around us, etc, etc, and that meditation has enhanced her Judaism. It was weird to have someone address the very thing I'd been laying on my bed obsessing about 15 minutes earlier. After this experience I decided not to convert, that I could derive the benefits from reading Jewish law, etc, but that universalism was more important to me than anything. This type of weird quirky experience happens to me a lot, maybe because I strike up conversations with people, or maybe because people are thinking the same kinds of things I'm thinking, I don't know. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 21:16:13 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Helen Subject: thank you forum Message: Just found your two posts, Bill and Helen as I browsed just before going to bed. Bill that's very profound what you said there. One thing I've found in my life, and it has come about gradually over the decades, is that there is an inbuilt service ethic in people. I feel it in myself and I don't mean service of the Maharaji kind, either. It might just be a phone call with a friend, doing something really simple. But there's a feeling I get about being of some use. ANd yet it's much more and there doesn't have to be a reward because 'being used' in the nicest possible way is reward in itself. I don't mean people are saints. But there's a service ethic in all of us. Maharaji used that to his own benefit. Some people wasted great talents on serving him. Better to serve the common people than a pretend Lord. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 00:07:00 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Knight of the round table Message: In staggering away from maharaji's influence I found my discretion was/is lacking in various ways. My service impulses were out of wack and it took some doing to even get as far as I have in finding what is normal for the rest of the folks I am surrounded with and losing my compulsion for service and my distorted views of others. I am not saying you have the same wierdness I had, but for me lately I try to not be in automatic mode about that because people are unappreciative users by nature and I try to make sure I am not wasting my time with the wrong projects. I have to watch out for human nature in me and in others if I want to rise above it and choose an attitude to have that is more cool and fun than human nature. Breath doesnt do anything about human nature, attitude can. I can choose and rechoose one of my liking and design. That may not say it well but I know what I mean. Sir David, Looking at what I know YOU meant, your character is healthy and rich. A classic Knight. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 19:27:14 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Conquering Mountains? Message: Over at enjoyinglife, I was reading what this guy Charles Wolf wrote when he quoted some of his favorite quotes from Maharaji from 1998. Among them was this one, which followed his super simplistic statement that there are two kinds of people -- people who look outside and people who look inside for answers. When both types of these people hear that a mountain has to be climbed, one says: 'Where is the mountain ? Which mountain should I climb?' The other one understands that the mountain that needs to be conquered is not outside, but inside. Okay, so he's saying some kind of mountain needs to be conquered on the inside. What the heck is this about? Is Big M once again talking about some kind of realization or spiritual path that has to be 'conquered?' I understood that these days he was just blabbing all the time about experiencing knowledge and to enjoy your life, which is made more possible by having gratitude to him. But this conquering business kind of undermines that. Any comments? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 20:39:32 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: JW Subject: Where's my sherpa, guru? Message: Your mind is the mountain within that must be conquered, it is more treacherous than Everest, K2, or McKinley. This knowledge is the crampons and ropes you must use to climb this mountain. At the top of the mountain you can proudly say, 'Now I will write a book about the inner game of climbing and make much money!' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 00:38:26 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Helen Subject: Where's my sherpa, guru? Message: Helen, Such a great analogy for knowledge. You win the satsang award for today. This award goes to those who can say absolutely nothing and make it sound profound. Good job and Jai Satchitanand. Speaking of Everest, I just saw that new I-Max film on Everest at the Tech Museum in San Jose. Very impressive. It's shown on a screen that covers at least 180 degrees in all directions with this super high-tech sound system. Very impressive. You really get the feeling of being up on the Mountain. I felt like I was getting altitude sickness it felt so real. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 10:32:05 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: Where's my sherpa, guru? Message: Helen: Knowledge is the 'cramps?' ONLY KIDDING!!!!!! :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 11:05:01 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike/JW Subject: Where's my sherpa, guru? Message: Hey guys, I am addicted to the Jon Krakauer books --I am reading Eiger Dreams now--already read Into Thin Air and Into the WIld. I also saw the IMAX film and was blown away by the photography, how did you like those shots of that gorgeous Spanish woman hanging upside down from those tall spires in the water? Great photography, so realistic, I almost threw up all aover my hubby and daughter. I also liked the candles all burning in that Tibetan temple. I guess it's proof that Krakaeur is a great writer to have gotten me, the biggest fraidy cat of all (when it comes to extreme sports) interested in mountain climbing (from an armchair of course). No brain swelling and frostbite for me, not to mention falling into a crevasse, or dangling off a mountain by my toenails, thank you very much Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 12:48:54 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Helen Subject: Where's my sherpa, guru? Message: Helen: Yeah, the film was great. Actually one of the most dizzying parts wasn't on Everest, it was that scene where they were training on bicycles in Utah. But the movie confirmed to me that anyone who does Everest must be nuts. [I recall they talked about what happens to a human body at that altitude, and that one of the women climbers cracked two ribs coughing.] I can't see putting your body through that much turmoil just to say you did tha climb. I'm still not sure how they got that big I-Max camera up to the top of Everest, though. Funny you should mention Krakaeur. I just read 'Into the Wild' for the second time. I found that book so haunting, partly because I saw a lot of myself in the McCandless character. Some of us tried to find perfection in a religious cult, while he tried to find it in the wilds of nature. And what about the guy who had himself dropped off into the middle of the Alaskan wilderness, but then just 'forgot' to arrange for someone to pick him up? What a story! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 13:06:00 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: JW Subject: Where's my sherpa, guru? Message: Yeah, I couldn't put that book down. That guy could have been my Muktananda boyfriend back in the Guru days--fiercely independent, wanting nothing to do with civilization, on the edge. My book club is discussing Into the Wild next time--we're all Krakauer freaks. Ha--3/5 of my bookclub are my sisters,we all think alike. I agree people who climb Mt Everest are frigging nutcases. How bout that guy Beck, from Texas, they gave him up for dead during the Mr. Everest disaster and he shot up from his frozen position and stumbled down the mountain even though he was completely frostbitten and couldn't see.They helicoptered him off the mountain and He lost his nose and one hand and all the fingers off his other hand. Now his wife and kids are glad that Daddy has finally calmed down and his 'mountain fever' has been cured. Apparently his wife begged him and begged him to spend more time with his family but he spent all of his annual leave and money on his mountin addiction and had to practically die on that damn mountain and have several body parts cut off before he'd calm down. This to me is such an example of how we hard-headed humans just have to learn a lot of shit the hard way. I also think a lot of people need really extreme amounts of stimulation to be satisfied--they can't help themselves it's like a drug. I've seen that in some of the kids I've worked with too--they're always pushing the envelope. That guy ROb Hall was such a sad story, eh? How they patched in his wife's phone call as he was freezing to death on the summit, and she was pregnant with their child. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 00:10:52 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: JW Subject: Conquering Mountains? Message: Why it's letting the heart rule at the expense of your concepts, don't cha know! Actually, I think the mountain is the layer upon layer of doubts that get higher every day. The only way to win the K battle is to squelch the thinking part of yourself in lieu of the feeling part. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 00:57:13 (EST)
From: ella Email: None To: JW Subject: Conquering Mountains? Message: To climb a mountain takes courage, perserverance and a real desire to reach the peak. To focus your attention inside instead of outside takes real perserverance, real courage and you must have a real desire to know what is there. There is something to be felt, maybe you dont understand it, but its there. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 03:03:08 (EST)
From: ham Email: None To: ella Subject: Duhh Message: Er, Ella, isn't that just called living, even if your problems are outside the only place you'll ever be able to deal with them is inside, unless you believe in manifesting different bodies or some form of Star Trek transportation. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 08:07:44 (EST)
From: it takes courage to feel Email: None To: ella Subject: your breath? fantasyland (nt) Message: lkhu Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 09:21:00 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: ella Subject: Conquering Mountains? Message: Sorry, ella. It doesn't take courage to feel good. Isn't this what Knowledge is all about, 'feeling good'? Isn't that what M has said again and again, 'I just want to feel good'? Where's the courage in that? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 12:55:51 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: ella Subject: Conquering Mountains? Message: Dear ella: I am well aware that there is 'something to be felt' and believe me, I have felt it. There is 'something to be felt' in nearly all experiences in life. I was raising the question about the mountain because Maharaji's statement seemed contradictory to me. He is forever saying how simple and beautiful going to 'that place' is. I haven't heard him say for years that it's as difficult as climbing a mountain. If this is true, are aspirants told this? And isn't it a bit of bait and switch on his part? How many people get involved in his cult believing what they are told, that it's just about a simple, beautiful experience, so easy and natural and the rest is just about enjoying life. Are they only told later that actually it's really difficult and that it requires 'perseverence and courage?' How can he have it both ways? To me, talking about how difficult it is, is just an excuse or a rationalization for why premies don't experience anything the vast majority of the time. He talks out of both sides of his mouth, basically. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 13:22:17 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: ella Subject: Courage? Message: ella: Courage? Marching in the street, saying things that no one wants to hear and taking your chances at getting shot because you KNOW there are people out there that want to silence you....permanently, THAT'S COURAGE! Case in point: Martin Luther King, jr. Sitting underneath a blankey and poking your eyeballs IS NOT COURAGE by any definition that I'm familiar with! What you are talking about is called, 'HIDING, RUNNING AWAY or ESCAPE!' Please don't confuse what you do, with the likes of a courageous human being! 'nuf said! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 13:31:58 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: ella Subject: Courage? PT. II Message: ella: Mt. Everest climbers also possess great quantities of courage. Hey, if YOU fail at meditation what happens to you? Maybe you get a headache or you don't 'realize' something and you have a bad day... Oh Wahhhhh! If an everest climber fails he/she is gone, deceased, no longer part of this reality, no longer part of this planet, REALLY PHYSICALLY irretrievably D.E.A.D.! They don't even get the common decent burial because no one can bring their bodies down. There's a bit of a difference in the consequences, don't you think? To make a comparison between meditation and climbing everest (or any dangerous mountain), in terms of courage, is LUDICROUS beyond belief (and incredibly egotistical, too)! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 21:35:11 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: ella Subject: Yes, ella, exactly Message: To focus your attention inside instead of outside takes real perserverance, real courage and you must have a real desire to know what is there. You silly little hypocrite, If you had a real desire to 'know what's there' you'd leave no stone unturned. But tell me, what great search you've undertaken through the stacks of brain research and other related work that allows you to pat yourself on the back like this? You're a protected little hen in m's stinky coop laying small, little eggs for him like all the rest. Don't give me this 'courage' shit. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 03:16:13 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JW Subject: Conquering Mountains: Yes! Message: The Radhasoami gurus speak about this, when they talk about the various stages you cross when you dive in meditation. Maybe the BM finally learned something from what I've on my site, and he's now trying to speak like them, and talk about what he doesn't know! That's pathetic! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 05:54:47 (EST)
From: Sir Dave Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: Jean-Michel Subject: Conquering Mountains: Yes! Message: Maharaji said all this kind of thing about 25 years ago. I remember he spoke about getting stronger than the mind, after which, it was a formal battle. I remember that this did not fit with my experiences with meditation at that time. Nothing he said seemed to gell with my meditation. I found that meditation was something I had to relax into to experience. If there was any hint of a battle then it wasn't getting anywhere. A bit like relaxation therapy. How could a person force themself to relax. The fighting a battle with my own mind thing almost gave me a nervous breakdown at one point. What was really happening though was that I was internally reacting against Maharaji's philosophy, which I didn't agree with, and also reacting against the ashram lifestyle which I was living. For me, the best meditation came in the first year I had knowledge, before joining the ashram and when I was living far away from premies and rarely attending satsang. For a few months I found myself in a very relaxed place and meditation was easy. So I joined the ashram and then the battle started. ANd I lost any experience of meditation that I'd been having and became one severely screwed up person. Such inner conflicts brought on by listening to Maharaji has caused people to commit suicide. It pushed me to suicide too but fortunately, I survived the overdose I had taken. On the one hand Maharaji says to people that knowledge will bring you peace but on the other hand he promises a battle and an inner conflict. Such a thing is VERY dangerous and is surely the reason why so many premies have committed suicide. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 06:27:02 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Inner conflict & laddhus! Message: he promises a battle and an inner conflict I couldn't agree more with you. I don't know in which context he spoke about this mountain stuff anyway, and I only assumed this premie was only parroting him as premies usualy do. The worse thing I guess is that this inner conflict is unavoidable, as this mind suppression attempt (and the whole attitude involved in premiedom) is one of the worse thing you can do to yourself. And the BM presents it in such a way that it becomes a 'spiritual' necessity or something like that, when it's not obviously. He really is a dangerous person for those naive people swallowing his laddhus (remember that Indian story). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 09:34:38 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Internal reactions Message: What was really happening though was that I was internally reacting against Maharaji's philosophy, which I didn't agree with, and also reacting against the ashram lifestyle which I was living. I think you really hit on something here, David. My inner turmoil as a premie was probably because of my refusal to acknowledge that, deep down, I really felt like an idiot for believing in Maharaji. I was lying to myself. I feel much better now that I've stopped. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 09:08:02 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: JW Subject: Conquering Mountains? Message: JW, Maharaji has toned down the God stuff over the years and he has attempted to make K appear more secular, but he still speaks of Knowledge as being the means to finding what you're looking for in life. It's still top priority. Nothing should take precedence over it. And of course, it's imperative that you keep in touch with the master. He 'clarifies' what Knowledge is. Maharaji still wants to be the center of your life but not as God made man. Now, he just wants to be known as a master, not a 'spiritual' master, but a master, nonetheless, a 'teacher of life'. It's all semantics, that's all. He still wants to impress upon you that he's the most inmportant person in your life, and without him, it's not likely you'll find what you're looking for. He still wants you to be totally dependent on him. That statement about some people looking within and some people looking outside of themselves was Maharaji's senseless answer to why people don't always practice Knowledge if it's so beautiful, if it's everything you could hope for. Apparently, Charly is sufficiently brainwashed where Maharaji's answer makes all the sense n the world to him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 12:10:34 (EST)
From: x Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Conquering Mountains? Message: I think that the creepiest part of m's cult is the part where he demands devotion(gratitude) and respect for being 'the Master'. If he was just mellow, and taught people a way to enjoy life, or experience that grace within, or whatever the hell the current trendy catch phrase is, and did'nt make everyone worship him, it wouldn't even really be a cult, it would just be a self-help movement or something. Of course then, as a result, the money would stop flowing in as rapidly, and some lifestyle compromises would need to be made. Can't have that, now can we? The sad part, in away, is that for the premies m's trip is about lofty ideals and spirituality, whereas for Maharaji it's only about material gain. Period. Oh yeah, and maybe a little ego gratification. The funny part about all this is that if the premies weren't such selfish spiritual climbers, greedily searching for personal experiences and salvation, m's con wouldn't work. Remember all cons rely on the marks greed at some point. In m's con the marks are greedy for self percieved elevated spiritual status and lobotomized happines at any cost. IMO. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 09:56:09 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Looking for publication Message: Hi everybody, I'm looking for that old 'The Living Master' booklet published by DLM in 78 or 79. I own a copy of the French version (I was doing the printing for French DLM in 1979 and running the printing machine, can you believe this?), and I'm looking for the English version for the archives. Anyone owning a copy? thank you jm Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 10:23:58 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Looking for publication Message: JM: I KNOW that I have one, I'll see if I can relocate it. Let's see, it was in a box when I moved...... Seriously, I'll see if I can locate it. :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 07:57:27 (EST)
From: Lucy Greene Email: shumphries@classic.msn.com To: Everyone Subject: Millennium 73 Message: Channel 4 social history programme is interested in contacting premies and ex-premies in Britain who attended Millennium 73. Please e-mail shumphries@classic.msn.com ffi. Also apparently there was a documentary in 73 on the end of the world. Does anyone have a copy or know where to get one? Thanks Lucy Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 09:08:19 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Lucy Greene Subject: Millennium 73 Message: I have the poster. It was a movie by the same guy that did the who is gmj movie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 22:27:36 (EST)
From: Liz Email: None To: bill Subject: Millennium 73 Message: Who was this film-maker who made 'Who is Guru Maharaji? Was his other movie about the end of the world connected to M in any way? Just curious. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 21:37:32 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Liz Subject: Millennium 73 Message: Hi liz! I am sending the 'who is gmj' tape to Jim this week and he will be able to post who made it. Same guy. The poster had prem rawats picture in the background like a huge see through all knowing character that was watching the destruction and cataclysms(sp). If you stick around, we can track down that film by the filmmakers name. The tape has a break that jim is going to have fixed otherwise I would pop it in and tell you now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jan 21, 1999 at 22:24:07 (EST)
From: Liz Email: None To: Lucy Greene Subject: Millennium 73 Message: Why is channel 4 interested in contacting premies? Are they going to do a Documentary about premies & the Millenium Festival. Where was it held? I was around at the time but I'm not sure if I was there. Why was it called millenium in 1973? Was this documentary about the end of the world connected to Millenium '73 in any way, written by Maharaji or premies, or was it a completely separate issue? Sounds interesting. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 04:01:52 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Liz Subject: Millennium 73 Message: Millenium 73 was a festival that M held in Houston at the Astrodome. The premie community was filled with rumors of flying saucers and expectations of the place being filled to the max. With about 20,000 people attending, it has to be considered a flop, but we were fooled. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 13:59:45 (EST)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Lucy and Liz Subject: documentary about Millenium Message: In case anyone doesn't know, there is also a documentary film about Millenium & Maharaji made for the US Public Broadcasting System. It's called 'The Lord of the Universe', and it's pretty good - not a hatchet job on Maharaji, but not a pro-Maharaji film either. There are several copies of this documentary around (I'm not sure if any of them are in UK format, though). If anyone would like to borrow a copy of this video, please let me know - my e-mail address is above. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |