Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 38

From: Feb 12, 1999

To: Feb 21, 1999

Page: 3 Of: 5



JELLY -:- Attention: Orlando -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 08:55:45 (EST)
__Orlando -:- Attention: Orlando -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:32:16 (EST)
____Jerry -:- Attention: Orlando -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:08:33 (EST)
____JELLY -:- Attention: Orlando -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:01:47 (EST)
______Orlando -:- Attention: Orlando -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:49:19 (EST)
________earmite -:- So tell him about it! -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 12:55:59 (EST)

JELLY -:- Name the BOOK! -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:54:07 (EST)
__Happy -:- Name the BOOK! -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 07:53:59 (EST)
____JELLY -:- Name the BOOK! -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:01:52 (EST)
____Stevei -:- Which Techniques..? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:57:22 (EST)
______Happy -:- Which Techniques..? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:58:38 (EST)
________Jean-Michel -:- More about the 'techniques' -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:31:54 (EST)
________ham -:- thanks Happy -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:23:42 (EST)
__________Jerry -:- thanks Happy -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 13:19:57 (EST)
____________ham -:- thanks Jerry -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:51:06 (EST)
______________Jerry -:- thanks Ham -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:15:11 (EST)
________________ham -:- hormones/tryptamines -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 18:01:17 (EST)
__HALIP -:- Name the BOOK! -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:12:53 (EST)
____Jean-Michel -:- Halip, I'll call you -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:41:18 (EST)
______Halip & Jean-Michel -:- 'satguru' Kirpal Singh -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 11:38:56 (EST)
________Happy -:- 'satguru' Kirpal Singh -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 12:22:43 (EST)
______HALIP -:- Halip, I'll call you -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:28:13 (EST)

douche -:- Cosmic challenge -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 04:50:41 (EST)
__Runamok -:- Cosmic copyright -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:18:21 (EST)
____Happy -:- Cosmic copyright -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:26:59 (EST)
______ben there -:- Cosmic copyright -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:02:32 (EST)
______HALIP -:- Quick, Get a lawyer ! -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:02:32 (EST)
____Robyn -:- Cosmic copyright -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:32:16 (EST)
______REBEL BASE -:- MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:02:46 (EST)
____dv -:- Cosmic copyright -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 00:48:44 (EST)
__Brian -:- Cosmic challenge -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:09:55 (EST)
____Mickey the Pharisee -:- Well said, Perfect Web Master! -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:30:32 (EST)
____g's mom -:- Bravo Brian! -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:41:42 (EST)
______Happy -:- Yes! -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:51:53 (EST)
________VP -:- YES! -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 16:06:26 (EST)
____douche -:- Cosmic challenge -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:19:57 (EST)
____Robyn -:- Thanks Brian Brilliant! (nt) -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:29:53 (EST)
____cp -:- good sense-but -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 22:30:56 (EST)
______Brian -:- Good point, but... -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 02:46:00 (EST)
________cp -:- no ifs and or.... -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 13:26:18 (EST)

JW -:- News Investigation -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:08:34 (EST)
__Gail -:- News Investigation -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:19:29 (EST)
____JW -:- Tell Us Gail -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:25:22 (EST)
______JHB -:- Mail to M -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:50:45 (EST)
______Gail -:- Why sure! -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:54:38 (EST)
________ben there -:- maharaji@maharaji.org -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:04:51 (EST)
__________JHB -:- maharaji@maharaji.org -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:10:10 (EST)
____________Gail -:- Do you think he'll write us? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:21:21 (EST)
______________JHB -:- Do you think he'll write us? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:25:28 (EST)
______________ben there -:- Do you think he'll write us? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:28:43 (EST)
______________Rick -:- Do you think he'll write us? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:43:04 (EST)
________________Sir David -:- Email Maharaji from HERE -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 01:46:41 (EST)
__________________Richard -:- Here's my email.. -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:40:16 (EST)
______________Jethro -:- It may not be him replying -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 02:14:44 (EST)
______________HALIP -:- Do you think he'll write us? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:48:02 (EST)
________________JW -:- Dhera Dun -- Neighborhood? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:54:50 (EST)
__________________HALIP -:- Dhera Dun -- Neighborhood? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:08:24 (EST)
____________spammer -:- what's the address? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 02:36:38 (EST)
______________cp -:- what's the address? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 04:21:37 (EST)
______________spammerII -:- glass houses -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 08:52:47 (EST)
________________The Original Spammer -:- glass houses - well, duh! -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:50:10 (EST)

Brian -:- Feedback -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 19:21:26 (EST)
__Helen -:- Feedback -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:35:35 (EST)
__tj -:- Feedback -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 21:54:50 (EST)
____Gail -:- MJ and K are like arsenic. -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 22:48:28 (EST)
____VP -:- Feedback -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:00:45 (EST)
______tj -:- Feedback -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:16:58 (EST)
________Gail -:- Feedback -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:49:46 (EST)
__________tj -:- Feedback -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:20:29 (EST)
________VP -:- to tj- on respect -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:03:03 (EST)
__Anon -:- God-fearing or running scared? -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 22:34:02 (EST)
____Runamok -:- God-fearing or running scared? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:20:58 (EST)
______Anon -:- God-fearing or running scared? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 08:27:05 (EST)
________JW -:- God-fearing or running scared? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:08:16 (EST)
__________Anon -:- Maharaji evolving? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:59:56 (EST)
____________Runamok -:- Maharaji evolving? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:38:52 (EST)
____________JW -:- Maharaji evolving? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:51:41 (EST)
______________Diz -:- Maharaji evolving? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 07:42:18 (EST)
________________JW -:- Maharaji evolving? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 10:36:08 (EST)
__________________Jean-Michel -:- Maharaji's stubborn -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 11:27:54 (EST)
__________________Jerry -:- What's evolution? -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 10:15:53 (EST)
____I fear the dementia -:- of god realized beings -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 01:55:37 (EST)
______bill -:- of god realized beings -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 02:20:25 (EST)
______Anon -:- of god realized beings -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 07:45:14 (EST)
________bill -:- of god realized beings -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 08:55:58 (EST)
__Happy -:- Feedback -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 05:34:25 (EST)
____Happy -:- This was... -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 05:42:55 (EST)

HALIP -:- Maharaji site -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:08:52 (EST)
__d@vid -:- Maharaji site -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:34:54 (EST)
____ben there -:- Maharaji site- cookie removal -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:58:28 (EST)
______Presto -:- Maharaji site- cookie removal -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:03:29 (EST)
______Runamok -:- cookies and you -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:08:35 (EST)
________ben there -:- cookies and you -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:35:52 (EST)
__________barnye -:- bullshit cookies and you -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 01:27:59 (EST)
____________Runamok -:- Warning -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 02:09:55 (EST)
______________barney -:- Warning -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 02:31:30 (EST)
________________Runamok -:- Code 3 -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:27:58 (EST)
______________HALIP -:- Warning -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:22:45 (EST)
____Richard -:- Don't worry about cookies.. -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:12:43 (EST)
______JW -:- Don't worry about cookies.. -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:04:06 (EST)
________Runamok -:- Don't worry about cookies.. -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 23:41:35 (EST)
________Richard -:- Don't worry about cookies.. -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 10:34:45 (EST)
__Nil -:- Maharaji site -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 19:45:14 (EST)
____Selene -:- Maharaji site -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:20:43 (EST)
____Nimrod -:- Maharaji site -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:09:58 (EST)
______HALIP -:- Maharaji site -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:52:34 (EST)
______Nil -:- Maharaji site -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:18:35 (EST)
________Selene -:- Maharaji site -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 22:59:36 (EST)
________Nimrod -:- Nil and Void -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 23:10:02 (EST)
__________Nil -:- Who da man... -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 20:42:10 (EST)
____________Selene -:- Who da man... -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 20:48:58 (EST)
____________Nimrod -:- Who da man... -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 21:35:36 (EST)
____Roger Drek -:- Nil, how dare you? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 02:13:16 (EST)
______Denise -:- Nil, how dare you? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:12:58 (EST)
________Jean-Michel -:- What experience? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:25:51 (EST)
__________Denise -:- What experience? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:51:41 (EST)
____________Jean-Michel -:- A lot to think about -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:34:16 (EST)
______________Denise -:- A lot to think about -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:00:39 (EST)
________________Jean-Michel -:- OK, so? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 16:44:55 (EST)
__________________Denise -:- OK, so? -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:30:46 (EST)
____________________barney -:- OK, so? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 00:44:14 (EST)
____________________Jean-Michel -:- Disciple of the community? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 01:39:42 (EST)
____ex-mug -:- Maharaji site -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 04:25:53 (EST)
____HALIP -:- Silly Nil -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:48:19 (EST)
__dv -:- I can't load M's site- -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:52:34 (EST)
____gerry -:- I can't load M's site- -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 21:08:10 (EST)
______barney -:- I can't load M's site- -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 01:33:33 (EST)
________gerry -:- I can't load M's site- -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:57:31 (EST)
__________Helen -:- Bwa ha ha -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:22:27 (EST)
____HALIP -:- I can't load M's site- -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:57:59 (EST)
__Sir David -:- It's a lila, Maharaji -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 21:33:13 (EST)
__Happy -:- Name -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:32:56 (EST)
____HALIP -:- Name -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:07:06 (EST)
__premie/side of 'fries' -:- Maharaji site/dedication -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 15:43:56 (EST)
____Helen -:- Maharaji site/dedication -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:29:52 (EST)

ben there -:- media investigation -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 13:53:13 (EST)
__Way -:- media investigation -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 14:09:26 (EST)
__ben there -:- media investigation position -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 15:18:35 (EST)
____Denise -:- media investigation position -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 15:25:22 (EST)
______ben there -:- media investigation position -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 15:42:57 (EST)
______Brian -:- media investigation position -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:09:56 (EST)
______Passing thru -:- media investigation position -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:16:48 (EST)
________Selene -:- media investigation position -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:26:03 (EST)
____Helen -:- media investigation position -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:24:42 (EST)
______Tom -:- media investigation position -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 22:05:50 (EST)

Way -:- Click on the Light -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:16:42 (EST)
__Rick -:- Click on the Light -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:34:27 (EST)
____Happy -:- Click on the Light -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:49:21 (EST)
______Rick -:- Click on the Light -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:55:35 (EST)
____Jean-Michel -:- The 'Stepmother' -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 11:16:56 (EST)
______Nimrod -:- m+his mom -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 21:46:31 (EST)
________bill -:- early 70's stories -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:21:46 (EST)
__________Nimrod -:- early 70's stories -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 23:39:57 (EST)
____Jethro -:- Click on the Light -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:39:35 (EST)
__Johnny Cochran -:- Click on the Light -:- Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 11:01:28 (EST)


Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 08:55:45 (EST)
From: JELLY
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Attention: Orlando
Message:
Dear Orlando

I am not entirely sure what it is specifically that I wrote that caused you to be angry enough to respond so rudely. For what it's worth, I'm sorry but I do have some remarks to make about your assumptions.

Firstly, you have no idea where my information regarding M and K comes from.
Secondly, you have no idea of my background, previous 'religious' experiences, current 'religious' experiences, people I come into contact with, general life experience or my education.

My presence on this site is to increase my knowledge and to contact people for their opinions irrespective of what they are or aren't so that I am able to make better decisions. So far the response has been increadible, helpful and seemingly genuine whatever the respondent's belief. In the end I may decide to continue going to events or I may decide that I have other priorities and beliefs but I see no good reason to ignore all other options. I will make up my own mind eventually whether respondents are rude or polite because what it comes down to is that I have to make my own choices because I am the person I have to live with.

Regards
JELLY
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:32:16 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: JELLY
Subject: Attention: Orlando
Message:
Jelly
i am not angry. i just mentionned that WITH REGARDS TO M AND KNOWLEDGE you don't know what you are talking about.
You said YOURSELF that you have just been introduced to it.
that is all.
you can have a very rich spiritual and /or religious background, and i do respect this, but you do not know anything about this particular subject.

as far as being rude: check out the general tone of many posts around here and you will notice that mine is pretty mild
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:08:33 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: Attention: Orlando
Message:
Orlando,

It's long been the practice of premies to remind aspirants that they don't have Knowledge, so in effect they don't know anything about it. It is a brutal practice, the only purpose of which is to subdue, to keep the aspirant in line, a humble beggar. Anybody with enough self esteem sees through it and abandons the quest for Knowledge quickly because of it. Also, the huge demands made upon the aspirant to 'qualify' for Knowledge are demeaning and demoralizing. Only the most lost of souls would subject themselves to it.

A person doesn't have to have Knowledge to know they don't need it. All they need to do is go through the aspirant process to realize that. My advice to Jelly and others like her(?) is to have enough confidence in their own misgivings about Knowledge and believe that they can find happiness without having to crawl for it.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:01:47 (EST)
From: JELLY
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: Attention: Orlando
Message:
If you think I know nothing why don't you educate me?
Or are you going to tell me that only M can do that and I need to go to more videos?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:49:19 (EST)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: JELLY
Subject: Attention: Orlando
Message:
I don't really wish to 'educate' you, you are probably already more educated than me!
Look, Jelly, my comment to you was only in relation to this specific topic of Maharaji and knowledge.
you have been barely 'introduced' to the subject and you already are convinced that it is bad. This is your choice and i don't dispute it.
But please, don't say that you know so much about it, because you don't.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 12:55:59 (EST)
From: earmite
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: So tell him about it!
Message:
If you really think you know something that nobody else here knows. Perhaps we'd all benefit.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:54:07 (EST)
From: JELLY
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Name the BOOK!
Message:
Hiya!

Everyone keeps talking about how one can read the Knowledge techniques in meditation books.
Which ones?
I need a title of a book where all four techniques appear.
Thanks.
JELLY
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 07:53:59 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: JELLY
Subject: Name the BOOK!
Message:
Hi Jelly,
The techniques are mentioned in many standard books on yoga,
of which the most well-known are two major treatises on yoga,
GHERAND SAMHITA, and HATHA-YOGA PRADIPIKA. These are the two perhaps most important books on yoga in India, they're almost as important as the Bhagavad-Gita (well, almost). The techniques are very well-known. In the US, they are taught by Yoganananda's Self-Realization Fellowship, by the Siddha Yoga-group, byh the Radhasoamis, and so on.

Most yoga teachers, fake gurus, and many others have written commentaries to these two treatises, Gherand Samhita and Hatha-Yoga Pradipika. Ask in book stores dealing with books of this kind. For instance, Satyananda, Shivananda, Ma Yogashakti, you name them, have all written commentaries. If you know someone who have studied a little sanskrit, you can ask this person to help you around, too.

I mentioned this already in my journey (Happy Heretic). Then Jean-Michel asked the same question as you, and I sent him more exact details in a previous thread a few days ago. You can look that up. He has now incorporated everything very beautifully into his site.

I can answer more questions if needed.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:01:52 (EST)
From: JELLY
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: Name the BOOK!
Message:
Thank you, ...printed and off to the esoteric bookshop
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:57:22 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: Which Techniques..?
Message:
Happy...exactly which technique is mentioned in these books...Light, nectar, word, music or only light...can you be more specific...The gurus u mentioned dont teach all the techniques at once...some tech only Light for example....
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:58:38 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: Which Techniques..?
Message:
I'm a little in a hurry right now, and I feel it's a little old information already, but I'll try to make a quick reply.

In the books mentioned (Gherand Samhita and Hatha-Yoga Pradipika), all techniques are clearly mentioned. Check a thread originating from Jean-Michel on the 13th this month, it might even be in the inactive index now. But you can go directly to his website, that'll be quicker. Maybe they're not EXACTLY as Prem Pal teaches now, but the differences are, in my opinion, cosmetic! They are variations on the same theme. In that sense, Prem Pal is fraudulent in claiming that they are 'secret' and handed down from master to master through a certain lineage. That is pure nonsense.

With respect to SRF, Siddha Yoga, etc, they go stepwise into teaching first more simple things, then more complicated techniques. The Radhasoamis don't teach all 4, to my knowledge. In that sense, you are right.

But I'd like to add that I have, due to my work, been able to travel quite extensively in India. Both before and after my involvement with M, I took a keen interest in yoga, I studied with several teachers before M. After getting tired of his obvious lies, I skipped him, and checked several other teachers out. (I also got pretty severely burnt, which I describe in my journey). Anyway, I assure you, the four techniques are really hyped up by M. They are perfectly well-known and taught by literally hundreds, if not more, other teachers and self-styled gooroos.

I'm not saying they're ineffective - for me at least, they worked.
But one thing that always troubled me was that M was teaching EXACTLY THE SAME 4 TECHNIQUES to everybody. That's one thing more sincere teachers never would do: every student comes from a different place, and needs individual teaching and guidance. Any sports coach would know that, it's the same. You can't have everybody following the same guidelines or program.

For many people, meditation doesn't work at all, and then it's pointless to frustrate them with such practices in the first place. Others get something out of hatha-yoga (e.g. asanas and pranayama), but they don't feel comfortable meditating.
Some prefer karma-yoga, jnana-yoga, and so on - I don't know whether these terms mean anything to you. People are very different, and need different things. Anyway, no sincere teacher (if there are such, sometimes I wonder) would give exactly the same teaching/practices to everybody.

I was always very uncomfortable with the fact that M. did not give individual teaching. Clearly, he was/is a poor teacher, and no wonder most of those he 'initiated' into his 'secret Knowledge'
left him! They couldn't get into, neither him, nor his K.

I'm not saying yoga/meditation is the 'answer' at all, my personal opinion is at the opposite rather skeptic - although I meditate regularly myself. IMO, you cannot solve neither your personal nor your existential problems with yoga. My own point of view is that extreme caution has to be taken towards all spiritual claims within yoga/meditation. We have to keep in mind that it was a system created within a Hindu religious context. Especially, the whole idea of 'following a guru' or master, is IMHO very dangerous, and it's really a very medieval concept. One's mind and personality gets crippled.
I guess all of us who read and post here agree on this. But, that does not mean that meditation automatically would not be useful: I think many would testify that meditation works better without that damned guru!

(It became a longer response than I thought)
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:31:54 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: More about the 'techniques'
Message:
Here is the link to my site, where you'll find references:

Learn what the Indian Scriptures really say!

I couldn't agree more with Happy!

I was pretty much dissatisfied with m's teaching since the very beginning. I would experience the 'group high' phenomenon undoubtedly, but was very frustrated with meditation.

As I was sure that there was something to experience in meditation, because I had some friends having good experiences with it (they'd learn it before from other yoga teachers), I searched for a qualified teacher.

And I did a 10 days Vipassana course, got satisfied with it, and finally started to have an experience with meditation.

I still stayed involved with m, and that was my biggest mistake.

He is NO qualified meditation teacher, and there are very good reasons for this!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:23:42 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: thanks Happy
Message:
'I'm not saying they're ineffective - for me at least, they worked.
But one thing that always troubled me was that M was teaching EXACTLY THE SAME 4 TECHNIQUES to everybody. That's one thing more sincere teachers never would do: every student comes from a different place, and needs individual teaching and guidance. Any sports coach would know that,it's the same. You can't have everybody following the same guidelines or program.'

Thanks for that Happy, at long last a possible reasonable explanation of why so many sincere 'seekers' & 'practitioners' of k have so little effect from the practice of k.

As someone without experience of other similar teachers, and because it worked for me, I was pretty bemused about why it hadn't worked for others.
Didn't believe that bullshit guilt trip gm used as cover for hisself. It fits remarkably well with all the other incompetencies he has shown, but especially his disinterest in his followers.

Long-term, I'm finding the historical background to the territory the most rewarding aspect of this site, because it's the area of the greatest lack in my understanding. How many of us came in as amazingly naive in the whole area of yoga & meditation!

Much appreciated.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 13:19:57 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: thanks Happy
Message:
Ham,

I'm curious. When you say Knowledge worked for you, what do you mean? Stevei says that he only started seeing the light after he received Knowledge. Is this true of you, also? Or did you, with these techniques, just focus your awareness on phenomena that had always been present, even before you received Knowledge?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:51:06 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: thanks Jerry
Message:
For me there has always been two sides to the techniques, the perceptual effects and the after effects, sometimes almost immediately after.

Light I'd only seen and gone into on acid, where in some ways it was stronger, in some ways weaker. Sound I'd never had before practicing, nectar only came really strongly for me once. Holy name I'd experienced on acid, or rather similar feelings, not the pulsing that came with 'k'.
I did start practicing the light technique a couple of months before 'receiving' k, unconsciously, but I was forcing the eyeballs, got the doughnut effect but no sublety to either the feeling/effects or the visuals.

Of the after effects, the alterations of space and time I remember from before the age of ten,but they were MUCH milder then, the incredible sensitivity to colour and sound only consciously after k, but I suspect I had milder versions of before the age of ten. The awareness of the pain in peoples hearts was never as clear before practicing, except for a few acid trips, especially the peak periods on acid where I had a number of 'telepathic/exceptional' sensitivity experiences, but acid definitely opened up my sensitivity enormously, although unconsciously I suspect that was something that was continuosly evolving.
Acid increased my global awareness but practising 'k' gave me answers to questions about how we got into the mess we're in as individuals, although practice greatly reduced or maybe even severed the search for practical solutions and social awareness. (On acid I remember 'seeing' how the design of social objects reflected our egos, a whole body 'seeing'. This reduced greatly after k.)

Exceptionally odd perceptual experiences, that were proved to be true, I'd never had before practicing. Thinking thoughts/having feelings about people, phoning them and finding they were spot-on I'd never had before. Saying whatever, without trying to pre-judge, however irrational it was, and blowing peoples minds because I was articulating what they were thinking, never happened before.

Synchronicity experiences I'd had on acid, had more after k, but they meant less.

The whole body/pulsing experience of connection to a universal constant I'd only had on acid beforehand. The previous statement plus a feeling of being pulsed and bathed in love through every single pore of my being, I'd only experienced with the first love of my life, both on & off acid.

The complete faith in intuition grounded in a buddhist style sense of discrimination I'd never had before, although I had had previous milder short term periods of this on acid, but without the total(near-total) security.

Thanks for pulling that one out of me.

I should add that I've known others who have had either all or parts of the perceptual effects, eg light, music, pulse/breath happen spontaneously for them in a way it never had before k for me, without drugs. These people had nothing to do with gm, just spontaneous happenings. The light thing I've known around followers of other gurus as well.
But we also know they can happen on dmt, a natural body ingredient, under incredible 'g' forces, wearing low radiation magnetic helmets and stimulating that spot in the temporal lobe with electrodes.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:15:11 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: thanks Ham
Message:
I was particularly interested in what your take on K was because of our common interest in the neurological connection to spiritual/mystical experience. I find it revealing how individuality is such a determining factor in the experiences that people have with K. It's not as universal as M thinks it is. There definitely must be a connection between an individual's chemical makeup and the experience one has in meditation. Unless, of course, Stevei's right and its just a matter of how much luggare you're carrying. Nah. Its chemistry.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 18:01:17 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: hormones/tryptamines
Message:
Couldn't agree more Jerry, an experience has to be by definition an experience in the body, how would I be having an experience without my brain and a biological 'I'..

What I forgot to add in my previous post was that every single time I've had an 'experience' it has been very obvious that chemical changes were happening in my body at all 'peak' moments, and the after effects altered the way I was 'feeling' in my body. They weren't neutral, like in some detached 'spiritual' dimension unconnected to the body.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:12:53 (EST)
From: HALIP
Email: None
To: JELLY
Subject: Name the BOOK!
Message:
I have here, sitting on my desk, a book written by Kirpal Singh, which I bought in New York in the early 80's and published by Sawan Kirpal Publications in 1981, called 'NAAM OR WORD'. All 4 techniques are described very clearly.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:41:18 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: HALIP
Subject: Halip, I'll call you
Message:
Hi Halip,

I think I'll call you and borrow your book, unless you send me those excerpts.

Or we'll make a deal: dinner at your preferate restaurant ....
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 11:38:56 (EST)
From: Halip & Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: 'satguru' Kirpal Singh
Message:
Yes, Kirpal Singh (deceased now, I think) was a competing offshot
of EXACTLY the same branch as Hans ji Maharaj. He was very popular in India at the same time as Prem Pal was 'discovered' by Western hippies. I think those who went Hans Jayanti in India 1972 must remember all the ads for Kirpal Singh in Delhi. Kirpal Singh was a competitor of Hans Ji.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 12:22:43 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Halip & Jean-Michel
Subject: 'satguru' Kirpal Singh
Message:
Sorry, mixed up 'from' and 'to' in my previous post.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:28:13 (EST)
From: HALIP
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Halip, I'll call you
Message:
Our messages are crossing each other (I just left you one on the french site )... Couscous at the Clair de lune , maybe ?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 04:50:41 (EST)
From: douche
Email: none given
To: Everyone
Subject: Cosmic challenge
Message:
As anyone who has climbed aboard maharaji.com and been stamped with their cookie ID number will know, it sure is one slick operation over there. A real triumph of design over content. But although the words are sugary sweet, the welcome is as cold as permafrost.

In fact, the navigation screen looks as though it comes off a Klingon Battlecruiser. All those steely grey buttons with planet Earth targeted dead ahead.

I think it was JW who suggested there must be a good magazine feature highlighting the battle for hearts and minds between the high-tech, no-expense spared maharaji.com, and the plain and simple - but honest - ex-premie.org.

Perhaps we could up the anti a bit by testing the resolve of the great man. Is he really prepared to back up his legal threats of death and destruction on anyone who takes so much as a panel from his Internet Battlecruiser?

Maybe we could steal bits of it, incorporate a few subtle changes, and reassemble it someplace where his techno-goons couldn't reach it. And if he does let loose his legal minions, we could always counter-claim for all the money we gave him before escaping his evil clutches. Now that would be a story.

Perhaps we could start slowly. How about we take a small button to begin with and then gradually add to the haul. Brian... what do you say? Could we store a few bits on the ex-premie site and see what happens?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:18:21 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: douche
Subject: Cosmic copyright
Message:
Altho I am not 100% clear on this, my understanding has been that internet copyright law is the most liberal in allowing for 'borrowed' material, i.e., that you can swipe almost anything on the internet, legally.

My suspicion is that M. also may be setting himself up with a legal argument to spy on us through cookies, as well as scaring off 'poachers' and also maybe attempting to build the impossible legal case for copyright violations.

While we argue that he avoids publicity, he has the money and 'men' to go to town in court. Scientology, for example, has been extremely successful in destroying its opponents in court.

Comments? This is a forum, and I'd like to hear more.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:26:59 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Cosmic copyright
Message:
Yes, scientology has been very succesful in courts. It's not surprising that Prem Pal is now getting into the same tactics
as L. Ron Hubbard! Same shit, both of them.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:02:32 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: Cosmic copyright
Message:
it is fairly stupid to sue someone for
copy right violation unless they have
something to begin with. gmj is the
only one who has anything to lose.
If he wants to begin tying up his
resources in lawsuits againts people
he has already ripped off once he
definitely is going to have a problem,
unless he's got some brainwashed lawyer
who wants to do this for him.

if there is really anything of value
on his site that you want send him
an email notifying him that your
are going to use it and that you
will interepret no response from
him within 24 hours as his ok
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:02:32 (EST)
From: HALIP
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: Quick, Get a lawyer !
Message:
Anyway, what is he gonna do ? Sue the whole planet ?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:32:16 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Runamok
Subject: Cosmic copyright
Message:
Dear Run,
I am sure others know more than I do here but in making web pages I have been shown that you can right click and save any image on the net to use for your own purposes.
Let the dismantling begin! :) Only thing is it would just be a copy and not actually delete it from its source.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:02:46 (EST)
From: REBEL BASE
Email: NONE
To: REBEL ALLIANCE PILOTS
Subject: MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU
Message:
PLEASE KEEP UP RADIO CONTACT
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 00:48:44 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Cosmic copyright
Message:
Scientology's pm is dead- that gives them a lot of power. M is still a slow moving target. How could M sue us? Collectively?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:09:55 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: douche
Subject: Cosmic challenge
Message:
Glad to see you participating in the forum more lately.

I haven't been past the totally useless ELK-like splashscreen leading into the Fraud's Fortress yet. I have an extreme personal dislike of websites that REQUIRE me to allow cookies that are not designed to enhance my ability to use the site, but instead are employed as a means of exerting control and extracting information about me.

Rawat has not moved away at all from being the brat who (along with brother Raja Ji) once bugged the DLM Headquarters in the UK, although he had many apologists defending that action as a youthful James Bondish 'prank'.

Paranoid beyond belief, he has now erected an online monument to himself that speaks very loudly to those who are considering whether or not to trust his words. Thieves know a good lock when they see one, and buy only the best when they need one. Since they can pay for them with stolen money, they can afford the extra dollars required.

This is the only freely-accessible online forum where his past deceipts are being discussed.

Enjoyinglife.Org has demonstrated that premies' life stories will be edited to fit Maharaji's current version of Truth, and their long-promised forum is as far away as Millennium. I fully expect it to be restricted if/when it ever appears. My letter to them congratulating them for providing a place for premies to post was deleted from their site when they realized that I was the evil Brian.

Mili and Harlan have resurrected Premie.Org with the same level of openness and honesty that once led Mili to try to shut down the alt.cult.maharaji newsgroup by forging the email addresses on his petition to Deja News requesting that the newsgroup be dropped from their server. Harlan regularly deleted contributions to the Guest Book hosted there after it was determined that the posts were contributed by ex-premies.

Now Maharaji has unveiled his own personalized site featuring bizarre and extreme levels of control.

When people search the web for information about the Ex-Lord, they can make simple deductions based on the approach and openness of the sites available on a very free web.

Maharaji is a complete idiot. Perhaps a perfect one. Katie and I have consistently held the line against calls here to make the site more hightech with frames, splashy graphics, pretty colors, and bandwidth-choking multimedia files. The emphasis will continue to be on keeping the site available and offering factual information presented in fast-loading frames-free pages. There is no attempt made to restrict access to them, or to protect the facts from being copied as far around the world as possible.

Maharaji is a complete idiot. When Forum I first appeared, OP was reading and participating in the discussions via a 286 puter. Any premie already bent double trying to hold up their share of Maharaji's extravagant lifestyle will be able to afford to read this site and to participate in the forum.

Maharaji is a complete idiot. Those wishing to browse Maharaji.Org will be required to fork out money for a state of the art browser that will have to run on state of the art machines. They will have to pay for monthly internet access and buy high-speed modems. They will need to buy books to learn how to use their new tools. And they will rave to those not yet spending at that new level about the wonders to be viewed beyond the strong walls erected against the truth.

As for whether 'we' should be using this valuable resource to challenge him on legal grounds, I oppose it.

Maharaji is a complete idiot. But he's a RICH idiot. He has consistenly demonstrated a willingness to re-direct money donated previously by us and by those still contributing to his World Peace Mission to instead serve the selfish wants and needs of his paranoid personality. His message is truly the same as it always was - 'Fuck you. I come first'.

He's the one who most stands to gain from shutting down this open forum and the site which hosts it. We are the ones with the most to lose by moving the 'fight' away from ACTUALLY speaking the truth to that of DEFENDING THE RIGHT to speak the truth.

Maharaji has contributed nothing to this site - beyond the erratic behavior that these pages document. To get caught up in believing that this site is about being able to cut and paste his gibberish and self-serving lies is to allow him to choose the topic of this forum. This site is not about testing or battling him on legal grounds.

Ex-Premie.Org is about the truth. Not as the courts interpret it, or as Maharaji interprets it, but as WE EXPERIENCED IT. There will be no mention on his site(s) of the events we testify to here. There will be no links to this forum.

This site doesn't belong just to US. It belongs to those who are about to stampede onto the web at Maharaji's urging. They will find his site, and perhaps be deemed safe enough to browse it.

They will also find this site and forum - the information available here and the preserved right to participate freely.

FUCK YOU, MAHARAJI. WE COME FIRST.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:30:32 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Well said, Perfect Web Master!
Message:
I agree with you, Brian; we should not let that fraud put us on the defensive. He is the one who is wrong and he must defend his own indefensible postition. Maybe he can get Henry Hyde to help him.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:41:42 (EST)
From: g's mom
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Bravo Brian!
Message:
I think the points about the only people being able to access his site being those with the most recent computers was a very interesting point. I do appreciate that this site is simple. I despise waiting for things to load.

And everything else you said was completely on the mark!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:51:53 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Yes!
Message:
Totally agree! Couldn't been put better.
I always appreciated your decision that one didn't have to use
frames. ex-premie.org has all the time been easy to access. I only
once went into enjoyinglife.org, but that was horribly slow and troublesome,
and the content ---- only for lobotomized zombies.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 16:06:26 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: YES!
Message:
Brian,

When I suggested some fancy things be added to this site, (moving picture files of darshan, etc.) I wasn't thinking about how that might inhibit usage by all. It's a very good point. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

VP
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:19:57 (EST)
From: douche
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Cosmic challenge
Message:
Is that a 'no' Brian? I appreciate your reasoning - and many exes obviously agree with your point of view - but wouldn't it be wonderful to coax the evil one from his lair just a little?

The guy's paranoid beyond belief - and that's his Achilles heel. It's a great opportunity to get our own back just a little for all those lost years. Any sort of reaction would be great. After all, what can he really do? I really can't see him spending lawyers fees when you think of the bad PR he'd get from closing down a site used by his recovering devotees.

An alternative maybe to set up a bit of anonymous web space somewhere in cyberspace. That shouldn't be too difficult to anyone with a bit of techno-knowledge. It's then fairly easy to copy and paste from his site and make a few subtle adjustments!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:29:53 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Brian
Subject: Thanks Brian Brilliant! (nt)
Message:
hfiweuf
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 22:30:56 (EST)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: good sense-but
Message:
A huge proportion of would be-premies and premies have no access or wish to access the net.

In fact, to lots and lots of premeis -cyberspace is a personification of mind and they make allowances for it because their lord has a site.

This might sound far fetched to this forum , where you all live and breathe this form of communication.

what I am getting at, is for the ones who are interested, if they can coax the issues OUT and OFF of the internet and into the lower forms of communications- such as magazines or newspapers- then more people have access to the controversy.
Think of the premie householder who leads a no-tech lifestyle and just forks out $$ to crawl to programs and donate regularly. They dont go near computers- but do indulge in the odd tabloid or magazine.

There is a whole different species of person out there with no consciousness of the internet.

I dont know if this makes sense to all this talk of cookies and copyrights and all that. I mean that this web site reality is only ONE of the battlefields.

It is the most efficient and the most widespread- but there are huge numbers that could be reached if some of what goes on here is broadcast by other media channells.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 02:46:00 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: cp
Subject: Good point, but...
Message:
what I am getting at, is for the ones who are interested, if they can coax the issues OUT and OFF of the internet and into the lower forms of communications - such as magazines or newspapers - then more people have access to the controversy.

What other people choose to do isn't something that I can even pretend to decide. Douche's suggestion was to use this site to defy Maharaji's efforts to prevent people from violating the terms of his site after they have agreed to them. His response to mine asked if that was a 'no' (it was) to using this site as a test site for WWW copyright issues.

This site isn't about copyright issues on the internet. It's about having an online place where we can share our experiences and information with each other, while also reporting on Maharaji's latest STOOOPID antics. The Ex-Lord doesn't want people to be able do that. I do, as do others. And as WILL others when they find this site.

In my personal opinion, Maharaji will probably ignore any copyright infringement by personal sites because he only has one site that he wants to see shut down immediately. That's due not so much to the content, but to the existence of the forum and to the 'rallying-point' name (ex-premie.org). Because of his concerns, Elan Vital monitors this forum (and those performing that service are free to jump in if they're not doing so anonymously already).

NONE of Maharaji's sanctioned sites allow free communication. They only allow 'correct' content. It's pretty easy to see that the closer you get to him online (Premie.Org -> Enjoyinglife.Org -> Maharaji.Org) the more restrictive, controlling and paranoid the sites become. As Zac says below, 'Source Of The Experience'.

Anyone who wants to put in the time can cut and paste Maharaji's entire site onto their own website as far as I'm concerned. I'll link to it from here. I'll also report on any efforts MJ makes to shut those sites down (I personally don't think he would bother).

I'm certainly not opposed to efforts to take the information to other media. I spent 3 hours on the phone talking to the writer from People magazine (a biggie in North America). They never ran the story, but it wasn't because I opposed it.

I'm just not spearheading any effort to throw light on Maharaji's little scam in other media. I'm busy keeping the lights on here.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 13:26:18 (EST)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: no ifs and or....
Message:
anything. Please keep busy keeping these lights on.
And thank you.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:08:34 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: News Investigation
Message:
I finally wandered over to the Maharaji site and I must say, it is indeed vacuous. Even worse that I thought. His ego is in full bloom as well, although he was forced to admit he needed help on the web stuff, otherwise it's all him, right? [Even that Valentines day picture that looks like the dog's dinner.] There is some footnote that he didn't take all the pictures himself, but 'others' did. It was big of him to admit that. If you have recently eaten, don't try to read the 'poetry.' It is truly wrenching.

Anyhow, I think a couple of things are of note. As anon said, he has that 'lineage' up there, but then he doesn't actually say HE is part of the lineage. Also no mention of the 'other' perfect master, his brother, Sat Pal. No link to Sat Pal's webpage either. What is it, Maharaji, no brotherly love?

Also, it's the first indication that I've seen in writing that he really does intend to just lie his way out of the whole Lord of the Universe period. It's clear he is blaming everyone else for forcing him to play god, but he does indicate that he has 'evolved', I guess from dancing half naked in Krishna outfits, and giving darshan in large Western cities, to dancing in business suits and giving darshan in the outback of Australia. No mention of darshan. No mention of the ashrams or his repeated damands for total surrender. No mention of that. It's just implied that all that was forced on him by the concepts of others. The cover-up continues. The big lie gets repeated. And of course, he neither admits any mistake nor error whatsoever, and takes responsibility for nothing.

It is SO clear that the site is in response to this one. Hey ex-premies, we finally got himself to do something! Quite an accomplishment. I guess he is concerned. The 'they forced me to do it' and 'if you don't like it leave it' comments are directed at us, and don't think they aren't. No mention of the tons of rotten vegetables or how you would be shattering glasses if you ever left knowlege, but hey, there was only so much space.

But now I have an idea for a 'hook' for some media coverage. I think we might be able to sell the 'duelling websites' angle. Before, it was just us speaking and some premies over at enjoyinglife posting heavily censored drivel. But now, the lord himself has come on the internet with a version of history, such as it is, that differs from ours. And we are commenting on what he has to say. Isn't there at least a magazine article in there?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:19:29 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: News Investigation
Message:
Yup. I just finished e-mailing MJ another nasty note. That makes two. I wonder if the Lard will write me tomorrow? I have not been blocked, BTW. Maybe there is some other problem for those who can't access MJ's site.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:25:22 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Tell Us Gail
Message:
Gail, if you don't mind, maybe you can share what you had to say to your former Lord and Master with the rest of us. Do you want to?
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:50:45 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Mail to M
Message:
I sent a couple of mails. One referred to his claim that he never wanted to be a figurehead. I requested that he change this claim before it is publicly exposed as a falsehood, in view of the vast amount of evidence from his own lips that he did portray himself as a figurehead, leader, and much more.

My other mail referred to the time I was living in Brighton ashram and we all went to see the Zeferelli film, 'Brother Sun, Sister Moon', where I was impressed by the scene where Francesco (St. Francis) reacts to the hypocrisy in the church by shouting out 'NO!' and then quietly, and with inner certainty repeating 'No'. I told M that I shared those sentiments when reading his site.

John.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:54:38 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Why sure!
Message:
Well, I don't have a copy of what I said exactly. It's a weird spot. You write and it continues on one line. There is no way to preview the message.

Here's the gist:

How much longer are you going to keep the premies on the hook? When are you going to tell them you are not the LOTU. When will you tell them you are a fraud. Why do you hate lust for others but not for yourself?

Why do you need gold toilets? How can you feel good about taking money from poor premies to support such things? AND OTHER RAMBLINGS!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:04:51 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: maharaji@maharaji.org
Message:
'maharaji@maharaji.org'
the source code for his page reveals the address.
Avoid the cookie monster and send normal email from your own email software without having to down load his graphics.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:10:10 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: ben there
Subject: maharaji@maharaji.org
Message:
Oh dear, if ever a mailbox has been flamed, this one certainly will be!!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:21:21 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Do you think he'll write us?
Message:
I've always wanted a letter from the Lard.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:25:28 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Do you think he'll write us?
Message:
I bet that any mail we receive will begin with:-

'Maharaji has asked me to reply to your email on his behalf......'

John
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:28:43 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Do you think he'll write us?
Message:
I think he has hidden his email address.
(input type='hidden' name='recipient'
value='maharaji@maharaji.org')
so that people have to go to his form
to send him mail. I think he may be
a little surprised to get lots of mail
from sources outside of his form.

I think he will probably have to delete
the email response form page or he will
be inundated with so much mail asking
for reparation. Either that or he will
have to learn how to write html which
doesn't contain the response address.

As far as writing to us, I don't think
he is a big enough man to ever face up.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:43:04 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Do you think he'll write us?
Message:
It's possible BM's email will be screened just like his snail mail.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 01:46:41 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Email Maharaji from HERE
Message:
Why not email Maharaji NOW from this page? Click here to email Maharaji and tell him what's cookin'.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:40:16 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Here's my email..
Message:
just thought i'd write and say how disappointed i was by the stiff and formal nature of your web-site. Don't you know that the whole point of the web is to interact.

Apart from the painfully long time it takes to download your graphics and gain access to your site there is also the question of your terms and conditions. What the hell are you playing at? This has got to be the most paranoid site I have ever tried to access and that includes government sites. That is quite something coming from someone who went to war with the British Charity Commissioners way back in the 70's.

And what about the premies, don't they get a say? Can't premies leaves messages without the M-Central goons censoring every word? Like I said, paranoid or what?

Well, it's taken you so long to get onto the net that I guess we should be grateful you made the effort but y'know, graphics ain't everything, content is all.

When I get time I'll have a good look at the site but you really should address the accessability thing. In the meantime, load me up with all the cookies you like, they only get deleted or disabled. As always, your technology leaves much to be desired.

regards

Richard
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 02:14:44 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: It may not be him replying
Message:
Hey Gail, Don't forget that when we used to be able to write to him, in fact he had a team of people giving out replies. He may be doing the same here.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:48:02 (EST)
From: HALIP
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Do you think he'll write us?
Message:
Dear Gail,

Well, I sent a pretty nasty e.mail to him from his site yesterday, Monday the 15th, asking him to 'cut the bull' (I'm quoting myself here !) in reference to his never wanting to be a figurehead and a leader, and asking him if he thought premies and ex-premies to be so stupid as to believe that there was only a staff of 8 people in Dhera Dun to attend to him and his family, as if all the premies slaving away there ( oops, doing 'service') counted for nothing... No answer so far. I'll keep you posted on this one.

Bonsoir !

HALIP
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:54:50 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: HALIP
Subject: Dhera Dun -- Neighborhood?
Message:
and asking him if he thought premies and ex-premies to be so stupid as to believe that there was only a staff of 8 people in Dhera Dun to attend to him and his family, as if all the premies slaving away there ( oops, doing 'service') counted for nothing...

I really cut up laughing when I read on M's site that he called Dhera Dun a NEIGHBORHOOD. Hey, yeah, Mahararji was just a regular suburban guy!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:08:24 (EST)
From: HALIP
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Dhera Dun -- Neighborhood?
Message:
Dear JW,

I asked him if he thought of himself as a regular joe in my e.mail, as I distinctly heard him with my own 2 ears calling himself the Lord... A regular joe, on a neighborhood stroll... And remember, he only arrived in the West on a summer vacation with 25 bucks in his pocket... the poor dear ! Well, he sure made good since then !
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 02:36:38 (EST)
From: spammer
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: what's the address?
Message:
Hi, I'm a spammer. I'd like to have that address. I have lots of customers who need more addresses.

I hope that nobody goes up to a NewsGroup and posts and accidently leaves the wrong email address. That could be a real mess!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 04:21:37 (EST)
From: cp
Email: None
To: spammer
Subject: what's the address?
Message:
what's a spammer?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 08:52:47 (EST)
From: spammerII
Email: None
To: spammer
Subject: glass houses
Message:
Hi, I'm a spammer. I'd like to have that address. I have lots of customers who need more addresses.
I hope that nobody goes up to a NewsGroup and posts and accidently leaves the wrong email address. That could be a real mess!


Cool, did you also notice a lot of people leave their email address here?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 11:50:10 (EST)
From: The Original Spammer
Email: None
To: spammerII
Subject: glass houses - well, duh!
Message:
I already sold all the names here to EV!
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 19:21:26 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: Feedback
Message:
Got this via the Feedback form. It arrived unsigned. I'm going to place it with the next update of the Letters page, but I also wanted to share it with you all here:

I have just discovered this site and am refreshed to read the comments here. The first thing that was apparent to me was the striking contrast between the stark, honest, loving and concerned comments of some and the predictable, stilted, stereotyped, arrogantly accusing style of others. It is clear to me now having suffered so much heart break for so long through guilt, rejection, judgement: who is free and who is brain washed still. Who has had the courage to stand up to the projections of fear and take a stand on what their hearts know to be right; and who still pays lip service, human tape recorders propagating dis-empowerment and gathering souls for these concepts to feed upon anew. Too uncertain, too convinced by guilt trips to stand in their own light, too fearful to consider expressing anything that might be disapproved of. Fortunately I have become allergic to the sound of their collective voice.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:35:35 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Feedback
Message:
Thank you , encouraging person who wrote the letter.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 21:54:50 (EST)
From: tj
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Feedback
Message:
I agree that it is distasteful to see the kind of bickering that goes on from both sides. Even though I don't agree with some premie's tactics, I do understand their frustration when trying to confront ex's who are hell bent on proving their point. So often these ex's were premies decades ago with a perception of us that is so totally outrageous. It's also hard to watch as people misrepresent something that for a practising premie truly enriches their lives. And why do some ex's assume that just because we feel that way about it, we don't honestly face life's realities. There's been much grief and reality I've had to face, and Knowledge has been a wonderful source of inspiration to help me through -- and I haven't had to give up my freedom to have that inspiration. The bottom line is there needs to be more respect and kindness for other side, and not just for the people we agree with.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 22:48:28 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: tj
Subject: MJ and K are like arsenic.
Message:
Hi TJ:

I agree with what you are saying. Live and let live. However, if you come here to chat you're going to find that people don't really like Lard Maharaji anymore. It's sort of like finding out your loved one has been putting small doses of arsenic in your cookies for the last 25 years; luckily, just before the fatal cookie gets consumed.

MJ has poisoned us all. It takes a while to cleanse your system. Keep reading. You may discover you are feeling queasy from the arsenic as well.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:00:45 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: tj
Subject: Feedback
Message:
'The bottom line is there needs to be more respect and kindness for other side, and not just for the people we agree with.'

I agree with kindness, but not necessarily with respect. This is an ex-premie site for people who have gotten away from the belief in Maharaji. Been there, done that, got a t-shirt. Just kidding, but knowing what we know now, it is difficult to give respect for belief in Maharaji. I can respect other things about you as a person, but not that.
Peace,
VP
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:16:58 (EST)
From: tj
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Feedback
Message:
I agree with kindness, but not necessarily with respect.

So you won't give me respect. Well, you prove my point. I guess there's not much point in carrying on any interaction with you folks.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:49:46 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: tj
Subject: Feedback
Message:
How much respect would you give another uprising such as Hitler and his brain-washed regime if you ran into them? You might appreciate them as people, but come on! What is so different about MJ. He trapped us under false pretenses (LOTU) and entrapped us through fear (fear of crossing the LOTU). Once we gave him a seat in the throne of our minds, it was game over. We have been BRAINWASHED, RODE HARD, AND PUT AWAY WET.

Wise men say
Only fools rush in,
But we couldn't wait
To give it all to him.

Take our hearts
Take our whole lives, now.
We no longer think.
We just do kowtow.

Like a river flows,
Surely to the sea,
So our cash it goes
To the Mahrawgee.

Take our minds
We just can't stop cryin.
Our lives have been ruined
By the party lyin' (line).

Take my heart
Take my whole life, now.
I no longer think.
I just want kowtow.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:20:29 (EST)
From: tj
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Feedback
Message:
Give me a break Gail. Your comparison to Hitler is unconscionable. I don't know about you but I was not 'trapped...under false pretenses'. Years ago I looked for a Master who could show me a part of myself that I knew I didn't know. I wanted to know my true self -- the part that didn't need to die. He took me on as a student and not only gave me the key to experiencing that 'true self' but continually gave guidance and reassurance that I could do it. The fruit of my years of being his student are deep happiness and a free heart. I DEFINITELY never feared crossing any line (whatever LOTU means) and have never felt inclined to eat anything I didn't first understand. There were times when I didn't understand at first but I listened to him and gave it a chance. I invariably discovered that he REALLY DOES know what he's talking about, and that has formed the basis of my trust in him. You and I clearly approached Knowledge from two different angles.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:03:03 (EST)
From: VP
Email: None
To: tj
Subject: to tj- on respect
Message:
tj,
Why stop after reading one sentence?

I said I did not respect that one aspect about premies. (Belief in Maharaji) I may (and do) respect other things about them. I have a friend who is a premie who is intelligent, kind, funny, spontaneous, loving, etc. BUT I don't respect his belief in Maharaji. Sorry, but it makes no sense to me.

In addition, I don't respect the Mormon's belief in Joseph Smith, or the Moonies belief in Rev. Moon. I also don't respect the belief that Jesus was born of a woman who did not have intercourse in order to get pregnant.

I believe in God, but some people here don't respect that belief. Big Deal. It doesn't mean I'm going to stop talking to them-sheesh!
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 22:34:02 (EST)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: God-fearing or running scared?
Message:
Re: 'too fearful to consider expressing anything that might be disapproved of...'

Inspired by Maharaji's website reference to his predecessors, I have just been re-reading the book 'Paramhans Advait Mat', which documents the life and teachings of Sarupanand, who was Shri Hans Ji's master. I was struck by the parts of his teachings where he makes emphatic reference to how a healthy mind is one which is in a 'God-fearing state' and that a person with such quality is constantly on guard against lust, greed etc. This 'fearfulness' was encouraged and was not unexpected, since previous Masters were also strict. The fear certainly went hand in hand with the love of the Guru and dependance on him alone for learning about the apparent purpose of life. As we know, in those days there was a whole Hindu cosmology which went with the whole Master experience.

Intimidation has for me been a stumbling block as a premie. Maharaji has clearly indicated, on his new site, that he endorses the general connection between himself as a Master, and a particular lineage, which is traceable, according to him, as far back as Sri Totapuri Ji Maharaj (1760-1866).(If I am not mistaken, this man was also the Guru of the more widely known Ramakrishna)

Maharaji also confirms what articles on JM's webpages have elucidated upon (on his Indian Roots pages) which is that Sarupanand and, before him, Dayal Ji, were also 'Masters'. If one reads the words of these 'Masters' it is quite clear that the dynamic between Master and devotee, although one of love, had plenty of room for fear. In the light of modern thinking this can be interepreted as abuse, or at least as a 'medieval' form of religion and benign dominance. One wonders how much of this 'respect' was experienced as real fear, and how much indeed the guru's tolerated this unhappy effect of their power.

Today Maharaji seeks to offer a more 'modern' Master/Disciple relationship, I suppose. However it seems impossible for him to completely get away from the fundamental, awe-inspiring suggestion that a higher power is empersoned in a/the 'Master'. Indeed M does not really seek to deny this, but neither does he exactly want to talk about the problems that arise when people are motivated by such understandable intimidation. I have never wanted to trip him up in discussion or to suggest that there is no such thing as a Master, but I do wish he would address this. Experience suggests to me that the God-fear factor, in practice, has less to do with creating a healthy and humble soul and more to do with promoting an unhealthy dependancy.

My point is that I am disturbed that these past Masters (to whom Maharaji refers, presumably to add weight to the 'Master'notion) undeniably struck a degree of what would now be considered an unhealthy amount of fear into their followers. I often experienced such ego-bashing (humiliation) over a period of many years as a premie myself, and accepted it as appropriate, and with a considerable amount of trust. The problem was that Maharaji's demands at that time for surrender etc. were intimidating and I experienced an undercurrent of unhappiness and anxiety as a result.
I mean, I really was often absolutely miserable and lonely, busting myself to do exactly what he said. In fact premies who were less serious about obeying the master seemed to have an easier ride.

I cannot deny to myself that life on the 'path', especially in the ashram, was often pretty unpleasant and that the bliss of 'practise' and 'devotion' was not, in all honesty, entirely adequate compensation. It seems unjust that the more sincere you were, the more you felt obliged by your conscience, to sacrifice yourself to the service of Maharaji and the denial of any other life. (despite your education or potential or other aspirations).

This was the clear message, and in the society of the time, in the west for sure, this call to surrender, led to some of the most genuine, integral and sincere people I have ever known, being put under the most impossible strains and stresses.
My brother for example, was an extraordinarily intelligent and gentle soul, a gentleman in fact, who was crushed in spirit by the demands put on his considerable conscience when an aspirant at the 'Palace of Peace' in London in the 70's. He was seized upon by less noble-spirited premies and put into what can only be described as slave-labour under the pretence of him doing Service as an aspirant. I believe the whole intense experience disheartened him so much that he has still not recovered from it.

Anyway, seeing the continuing human insensitivity and displays of arrested development, that appeared to be rife in premiedom even recently, only traumatised me further and served gradually to lessen my trust.

I like the idea of being crazy for love etc. and even the idea of being devoted to a person who embodies love and truth, but I now find it hard to trust M. It is also frustrating that current premies have such scorn for people to whom trust doesn't necessarily come so easily. Trust comes easily to people who are gullible or who do not discriminate in their search for truth. My ex-girlfriend could not get into Maharaji or Knowledge, simply because she could not understand the way that M seemed to demand respect. She felt, rightly I think, that even the Lord of the Universe would earn the respect of mortals by giving them good reason to trust him and answer their doubts sensibly. (She told me this after someone questioned Maharaji and was answered dismissively, in her opinion)
Premies (and Maharaji himself apparently) fully admit to being human and thus able to make mistakes but, unreasonably, have no time for those who have suffered as a result of them, and who have had their trust put to the test in a way that they have not experienced.
And so...to bed.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:20:58 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: God-fearing or running scared?
Message:
Thanks Anon.

Whatever value the Master-disciple relationship ever had or does
have in some foreign culture (and I'm skeptical that it did or does), it seems commonsensical enough that its a relationship of abuse and the world at large needs to recognize it as such.

While the cliche of surrender may be appealing, the promise of devotion was to bridge the infinite with the human. In practice 'Maharaj-ji' bridged the infinite to the inhumanity of abusiveness. Whatever value it has in theory, we'd probably all be best off to banish it to the past. Remember the saying, 'Would you go to a dead doctor to treat you?' The thing is, they'd probably treat you better than Rawatt.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 08:27:05 (EST)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: God-fearing or running scared?
Message:
Hi Run,
whenever I feel compelled to write to this site, I don't see it as an exersize in issuing a public warning about the pitfalls of Knowledge etc so much. It is more a means of exorcizing my personal compulsion to complain! I think this websize serves ably as the recepticle for grumpy complaints from dissatisfied customers, since Maharaji and Premies provide no such service.

I actually am not altogether ungrateful for the so-called 'gift' of knowledge' and I don't think that my relationship with M has been entirely abusive. I like meditation, but I am cross about the subsequent demands that went along with it in my day as a premie.
I would welcome a softening of the more extreme attitudes of both so-called 'exes' and current premies as I would expect that the discussions could become more constructive over time.

I am sure that media productions that deal with, and educate people on the history and psychology of the whole thing, are inevitable. In fact I myself would be very interested in a documentary that dealt with the issues that both Maharaji and his critics promote. What I would really welcome is a production that is fair and intelligently done.
Maharaji himself, in my opinion, is sort of baring himself publically now, because he accepts the inevitability of this increasing public attention and he wishes to in some way to present his beliefs to the world at large, possibly to pre-empt or counter some of the rumours that have built up because of the private, even secretive, profile that he has had so far. Interesting times.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:08:16 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: God-fearing or running scared?
Message:
Anon, if it's the 'demands' BM made on us, [for surrender, devotion, not doubting, 100% dedication, worship] that are our biggest complaints, [and I would add his failure to admit or take responsibility for what he did} I wonder what you make of the comment in his web site, that he has 'evolved?'

He is tacitly admitting he has 'improved' implying that he needed 'improvement.' Actually, this is sort of astounding. I had never heard BM ever even suggest that he was anything less than absolutely perfect. A perfect being does not 'evolve.' Maybe I'm reading too much into it, and it's certainly mealy-mouthed, but I think it represents some kind of a back-handed, childish admission, without having to actually do it. Sounds like something Bill Clinton would say. What do you think?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:59:56 (EST)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Maharaji evolving?
Message:
Hi Jaydublew,
Maharaji is certainly keen to suggest that he has evolved, and no doubt hopes that this admission will satisfy some of those who express confusion and disatisfaction about what they went through in the past, under his influence (mustn't say 'leadership' any more). I think we both agree that, to simply say 'I have evolved' does not amount to addressing the 'past mistakes' issues squarely. Indeed the lack of any detailed response certainly sounds very 'Clintonesque' or put another way, like an evasive tactic. It's hard to say whether M is privately cynical about this or is just genuinely doing his best to gradually, very gradually, come clean.

People in positions of power obviously are advised that they can get away with some mistakes as long as the broad base of their admirers are getting what they want and are prepared to overlook, or even forgive, the mistakes of their leaders. Really the less they respond to their critics the better, they should just concentrate on spouting the good stuff.

That brings on the topic of Maharaji saying he never wanted to be a leader. That sounds to me like classic political-speak, and would seem virtually meaningless in the light of facts. It's such a wild revision of the English language that one wonders whether he is actually joking. I do not object to inventing new words to expand the language, but if in doing so one denies ones past, then that is another thing altogether. Effectively Maharaji did lead us all and he has some resposibility there to reflect upon IMHO. I personally think that Maharaji also finds himself a victim of sorts and quite possibly will seek to defuse his critics by protesting innocence about many issues. I believe Maharaji believes all the stuff he says and that he is evolving. Like anyone, under attack he will clam up and admit nothing. In more trusted company he may well express regret for his mistakes. I don't know. I feel quite ready to forgive him for being often grossly dictatorial (in fact I feel some need to do so) but like we see in the Arab political world, I think it is very important to him not to lose face in the process of admitting he was wrong. He is a simple guy in a complex situation and the fact that he has, on his website, declared some desire to proclaim his motives, confirms that he feels the need to evolve, and indeed respond.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:38:52 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Maharaji evolving?
Message:
Why do you want M to 'save face' Do you really think he deserves it? People who commit violent acts think they have a reason. Is that a reason to take it easy on them? Someone like M who, in classic 'let them eat cake' style, has abused countless thousands with the wave of his hand ought not to be forgiven. Let God forgive him. That's a worthwhile prayer if you must. The way religion teaches it, the sinner must repent first. M'll never make it to that point according to what you say, and I tend to think you're right. Let him actually FALL! He supervised the failures of so many for his own gain!

I think you're prob right he believes what he says, but is that an excuse?

I did check out the site briefly, but I am always too bored to stay. I noticed that when he said he had evolved, he went on to imply the contradiction that his body had changed and 'the peace' was still the same. He can't grow- let him rot.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:51:41 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Maharaji evolving?
Message:
People in positions of power obviously are advised that they can get away with some mistakes as long as the broad base of their admirers are getting what they want and are prepared to overlook, or even forgive, the mistakes of their leaders. Really the less they respond to their critics the better, they should just concentrate on spouting the good stuff.

This is only true if the person in power actually admits to the mistake, given the ample proof that he or she made them. [In Clinton's case, the proof was sworn testimony and a stained blue dress.] If Clinton, for example, hadn't admitted to screwing up, apologized, to the nation, etc., he would be out of office. Of course, for all of his problems, you can't say Clinton is anything less that brilliant when it comes to politics and getting out of a jam. A year ago, he was written off as toast, and here he is today, sitting pretty.

Maharaji, on the other hand, won't admit to anything, certainly not to any mistakes, despite all the ample evidence. This just makes his detractors more angry. It also has to raise doubts in his own followers, at least those who witnessed what he did. For example, how can a premie who was around in the 70s and early 80s, not see as blantant lies his statement that he didn't want to be a 'figurehead' or the implication that he wasn't involved in portraying himself as god, it was others who did that. Those are lies and I can't imagine a premie being able to defend that.

Unlike Clinton though, Maharaji may believe what he says, having been raised to believe he is the center of the universe, and because he surrounds himself with people who support that view.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 07:42:18 (EST)
From: Diz
Email: None
To: JW, Anon, etc
Subject: Maharaji evolving?
Message:
Just for the record, this idea of 'evolution' isn't new. There was a video or film entitled Evolution many years ago, maybe shortly after the dissolution of the ashrams? I can't remember exactly. What I do remember is feeling, even then, that it was distressing that Maharaji was able to look BACK and say, in effect, that what happened before was not all it could have been. However he wasn't applying the same logic to the present. Even then, I thought that there were things about 'Maharaji's world' which Mj and the premies (including me) should be examining critically.

I'm puzzling over the timing here. Could I have been having doubts that early? Maybe it was a bit later, late 80s maybe.

Anyway, I wouldn't see the fact that M's said something about evolution as any sign of improved consciousness of the downside of his trip.

Thanks for the great post, Anon.

Diz
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 10:36:08 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Diz
Subject: Maharaji evolving?
Message:
I'm puzzling over the timing here. Could I have been having doubts that early? Maybe it was a bit later, late 80s maybe.

If I look back at things objectively, I realize that I had doubts all along, from the very beginning. I just couldn't allow myself to entertain them for very long, but they were always there, especially when events happened that caused me to have doubts or questions.

Concerning evolution, I have heard premies say this, that Maharaji has evolved, but the website is the first time I had ever seen Maharaji say it. He might have some kind of twisted, confused logic to deal with the contradictions of that statement, to maintain that everything he did in the past was perfect (which I have heard he also recently said) but at the same time it was subject to being improved upon, through 'evolution' or otherwise.
He can't have it both ways and when he puts it in writing, anyone with a brain can see the contradictions. But maybe he can't see the contradictions.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 11:27:54 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Maharaji's stubborn
Message:
M's been saying that sort of statement since about 10 years I guess. You haven't heard it because you haven't been involved. It's been his motto to justify everything.

My idea is that he's really convinced he is evolving. And this has been justifying all the changes, and there have been many in
his organization
the instructors system
the way k is given
etc etc

And that keeps the premies anxious of what's going to come next, that finally everything is going to be perfect.

My impression is that he doesn't know what he's doing, he's been trying lots of things to do his job of spreading k to the whole world and attract zillions of people, and it never worked!
Of course, it never will.

I guess he's quite stubborn, and taking his followers in his LOTU trip for ever.

When are they going to understand? I mean obviously some understand and leave ....
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 10:15:53 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: What's evolution?
Message:
JW,

I vaguely remember Maharaji once saying that God started out perfect and he's only been getting more perfect ever since. It was something to that effect. So when Maharaji says that he's evolving, what does he mean? That he's got this perfect gig and it just keeps getting more perfect as time passes? Given the way Big M has always sang his own praises, I suspect this is what he means.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 01:55:37 (EST)
From: I fear the dementia
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: of god realized beings
Message:
Hi Anon,
Careful of the misperception of life that hindu/guru/buddhist/
ect. people tell us is real.

If you think there is an original intelligence that made this place and is self concious, what in the world does anyone
need a relationship with a self appointed 'realized' person?

The fallacy that caused this whole eastern mistake is the
old notion 'he who identifies with the divine...'
and so any idiot in india or wherever buys into the concept
that if they just ASSUME that they 'get it' that if they
say 'it's ME! who I really am is that brahma, and my
identity I knew as 'anon' was just me not realizing who I
really am!'

What that robs you of is the clarity to accept that you are
here in a body with great features and perks and time as well.
You are never going to be god, that isnt in the design specs.
for a damn good reason.

All the lie of 'you arent just as you should be, you have to
see that you are the god' is a hell of a lost road and
a complete robbery foisted by tons of fakers that pretend
to have god realization in life.

Those guys do NOT think that there is a self concious
original intelligence.

Anon, YOU try to embody love and truth and see how damn near
impossible it is. I do. I know. We are not by design ever
supposed to graduate beyond human nature. Who has?
If love exists, well, get aload of this,
Bhagman das, the guy that ram dass said 'got it',
left his second wife and two infants, and his recently
orphaned daughter who just saw her mom die and was all of
about 9 or 10 years old, and instead of taking care of his kids
and doing the challenge of love to love THEM, he leaves them
to continue his hindu guru style 'loving kali'!

What a crock!

rawat, the embodiment of love, shuns his mom for 18 years
till her death and his brothers and cheats on his wife and
us for that matter, ....there IS no lineage and never was.

ever

It is a mistaken notion of life and the caste system sprung
out of that same rotten thinking.

If intelligence didnt come from matter, then there is an
original self concious intelligence and stupid people
think they can pretend to be it. THEY somehow embody it.

Not a chance.

Reading hindu philosophy will confuse you on the issue.
It seems like maybe there is reality to it because people
that have evolved that misperception of life believed it
and have thier views to tell.
Watch it, you are slightly vulnerable to that stuff still.
Really, is it a 'oneness'?
In american country music some of thier songs romanticise
just about anything! Really dumb things being falsely
romanticised. Those hindu love the guru stories and
falsely romanticised by people who believe.

They are not the result of clear grounded reality based
accurate perceptions of life.
A small house dog or cat can play the role of love object
and unconditional love for only the cost of license, shots,
and food. The 'embodiment'of love can be you. (As a regular
guy, with flaws, and not as god or as the spiritual slave
of a confused man who thinks the intelligence is not
self concious.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 02:20:25 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: I fear the dementia
Subject: of god realized beings
Message:
I was just reacting to one line in your post.
And spinning off that. excuse that please.

I think your post was well thought out as usual and
heartfelt and smart.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 07:45:14 (EST)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: I fear the dementia
Subject: of god realized beings
Message:
Watch it, you are slightly vulnerable to that stuff still.

Dear Bill,
I am indeed touched by your concern! Don't worry too much about me though please. Maybe what I wrote last night gave the wrong impression. I assure you that I although I may have some continuing fascination for the subject, I see the whole thing in a rather different way nowadays. That is, I tend to agree with you that the whole trip is/was over-romanticised and that there are/were some dubious power plays at work- and that is what we should be wary of!

As for 'A small house dog or cat can play the role of love object'- Well,I just buried my beloved feline companion of 14 years and I was distraught, I can tell you! My lower lip has so far remained stoically solid under the most dreadfully emotive instances of human suffering..but parting with my darling little cat brought upon me a hitherto unknown and yet irresistable loss of muscular control to that area.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 08:55:58 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: of god realized beings
Message:
Sorry about your cat.
I do understand loss of a small creature friend/family member.

I think it was because it was about 3 in the morning when
I started to post that got me off on that rant.
After I posted it I reread your post and thought, oh man,
Anon is hardly inferring much in that one sentence.
I use the term 'you' in normal conversation and I try to stop
that because I am actually saying 'we'. I dont know when I picked
up that habit. Others have mentioned it.

I am at war with the eastern thought because rawat emerged
from that whole world.
Certainly the post was not useful for you, but of course
I have always valued your posts and you know it.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 05:34:25 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Feedback
Message:
Well said! That's exactly how I felt when I found this site.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 05:42:55 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Brain
Subject: This was...
Message:
my response to the first post of the thread.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:08:52 (EST)
From: HALIP
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji site
Message:
Hi guys ! First thing, for clarity's sake, I've shortened my pseudonym from 'Happy and living in Paris' to HALIP as there is another Happy posting here -- however, different name, same person ! Besides, it is shorter to type !

Anyway, I've just visited M. site and could not believe what I was reading (ie. : there was only a staff of eight people attending to M. and his family in Dhera Dun... and that poor ol' Maharaji never wanted to be a figure head or a leader (sure, like he was forced into it by his evil followers !) The other thing I though revolting was the fact that the first thing one encounters on his site, after clicking the 'light', is not a friendly home page, but an endless warning of copyright and such. For Chrissake, this is the net, NOT some publication or video produced by EV ! Anyhow, I sent an e.mail via his own site to express my indignation, ie that once something is on the net, he loses control over it, whether he is Lord of the Universe, as he used to claim, or the regular joe he portrays himself to be. Another thing : his site is DEFINITELY an answer to this one, which means he must read everything that is being said here, which is great. Obviously, the guy feels threatened to go to such length to justify himself... Keep up the good work, folks, this is not an idle quest : you've hit home, where it hurts him the most : his ego !
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:34:54 (EST)
From: d@vid
Email: expremie@geocities.com
To: HALIP
Subject: Maharaji site
Message:
What a very strange site it is! The graphics are truly awe-inspiring. And the credits say that it's all the work of Maharaji. He really is a master of all trades.

What concerns me is that the Lord-of-Everything-That-Ever-Was,-Is-and-Will-Be seems to think it's important to lead with all that legal mumbo jumbo crap. Just what is it he's so scared of?

And why does he keep putting those strange cookies on my computer? And how do I now get rid of the darn things? According to the terms and conditions for reading the Internet works of the Universal Lord, I've been allocated an ID number.

I feel like taking an immediate bath and scrubbing myself clean. But how do I get the disenfectant inside my floppy drive? Can anyone offer any advice?
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:58:28 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: d@vid
Subject: Maharaji site- cookie removal
Message:
If you are using Windows 95-8
Cookies may be removed by the following
go to start
then find
then files and folders
then type in cookies to the box

once all the cookies are found
highlight and delete them.

Seems like someone obsessed with
control who would deliver so many
cookies. Probably a good idea to
take a bath or shower after visiting
his sight in case you got any of it
on you.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:03:29 (EST)
From: Presto
Email: None
To: ben there
Subject: Maharaji site- cookie removal
Message:
I hate to sound so ignorant, but what are cookies and how are they bad?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:08:35 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: ben there
Subject: cookies and you
Message:
Don't cookies allow for some kind of spying into the user's computer? Help me out here, guys and gals. I really wouldn't want old Gooma staring out at me thru those pictures on his website that I haven't visited. After all, we've seen plenty of his new age pretty pretty gushy lovey shitty poetry in our time already.

My understanding has been that a server can look at a lot of information about the computers accessing its sites, but costs and labor are somewhat prohibitive. However, costs are not really prohibitive for our perfect little nightmirage. What's the deal Brian, Barney? Any of you computer wizards?

Personally, I don't want my info anywhere near that creep.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 00:35:52 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: cookies and you
Message:
yes, the process of dropping a cookie in
your machine gives the server a little
glimpse into your computer. ISP and
email client name. We have provided
the email address maharaji@maharaji.org
above so as enable one to send him
regards without this intrusion.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 01:27:59 (EST)
From: barnye
Email: None
To: ben there
Subject: bullshit cookies and you
Message:
Fortunately, most modern browsers don't give out your email address. There is a utility on the net somewhere that will tell you if your browser reveals your email address. I know that IE4 does not and that is probably true for later versions of Netscape.

While I'm not too worried about cookies, I looked at my cookies and was alarmed and tried to delete them. Well, IE4 is really particular about that and prompts you for every damn one. I tried all sorts of tricks since there were at least 300 cookies. I booted to DOS and tried to format the drive to get rid of them, but I only did a quick format and maybe I needed to run the format utility that comes with my disk extender. But they were still there. So, I explored the folder and made the folder real small so that only one cookie name at a time would display to speed up the repaints. Then I selected all and did a delete and slammed in as many 'Y's into the keyboard buffer as I could. Now, they're gone.

click here to goto cookiecentral.com to get the dope on cookies.

According to the FAQ on Cookiecentral here's the info that a server can get from your machine:

Service provider.
Operating System.
Browser type.
Screen resolution and amount of colors. (only in IE)
CPU type.
Your service provider's server (an087.du.pipex.com for dial pipex, but this changes everytime you log on).
You IP address (again, this changes)
What server you were on last

Most of this information doesn't give anyone enough information to find out who you are except in a few rare cases and some add'l investigation. I believe such a case would be if you were running a server with a domain registered to your name and you were also browsing from that server (or ip address since servers mostly need to be static.)

Finally, they could run some DNS utilities or 'whois' on www.internic.net (click here to see who runs maharaji.org) to find out who is registered as site admin. In such case it would be a good idea to try to register under a corporate name with a P.O. Box. Why the hell does everyone need to know what kind of damn underwear I own.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 02:09:55 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Barney
Subject: Warning
Message:
Barney,

I think that some of that stuff times out. I notice temp internet files that stick around for awhile and then delete with the rest. Maybe those cookies will leave you in time.

Yeah, it's not just a matter of whether Big Brother Guru can get my email address or not. He probably has a brain of some sort since perfect 'crime' or similar money schemes recquire some intelligence. I don't want him to have the luxury of knowing the things he might find out about me, including the contents of my internet mail or where I am surfing on the net. These things are difficult to obtain but possible to someone insane enough to want to get even with me and others. Barney, correct me if I'm wrong.

Insane legal rhetoric that you clicked on to enter M's site? Wouldn't it possibly be a way to legally rationalize future spying on you?

I mean, someone crazy enough to wear the label 'Lord' might be understandably concerned about his photography or html code being stolen. I mean the wizard of oz needs his high tech gizmos or the remnants of his throne are shot. But it sounds like copyright protection isn't the only thing on his mind.

What stands in the way of most would-spies on the internet is money and man-power. It's easier to impersonate a legit company and get credit card numbers than to analyse information from a
computer over a period of months or years. Someone with time, money, and manpower wouldnt have these concerns.

Exes who post with their names on the forum prob get a little more attention from other exes, amd rightfully so. But public exes are not the only front that this battle is fought on. It's important for ex-premies to realize that their information may be analysed by Rawatt if they go on his site.

REPEAT:
It's important for ex-premies to realize that their information may be analysed by Rawatt if they go on his site.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 02:31:30 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Warning
Message:
No, not too worry.

It would take more than lots of money to get that kind of information. They have to get access to backbones and be looking for your packets.

I wonder if they could buy bulk information from marketers and if they might come with IP addresses? Perhaps, when you sign up for stuff on the web with your name and address (they also got your IP address - which does usually change unless you've got a static address which is required for DSL.)

Just be careful running Active-X downloads and Excel macros and other executables. Don't run your machine as a web server. Browsing is generally safe.

The worst that hey can get is your IP address, which typically changes everytime you log in or it is the address of a proxy server that many people are going out of ( I think.)

Or worse the previous server you might have been on - www.sick-sex.com.

click here to check out www.anonymizer.com to really keep 'em fooled.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 06:27:58 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Code 3
Message:
Dunno Barn, I've always heard that hackers can get in and look around. My impression is that it's just a damn major operation to find out that I've got a bunch of ex-premie email on my active aol mailbox cause I have figured out how to file it yet.

The kind of thing that you would probably need a good reason to do-

You're saying that it's servers that are more visible to hackers. But there's some info going into cookies.

I am going to have read up on this. Damn! This forum ends up giving me homework all the damn time.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:22:45 (EST)
From: HALIP
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Warning
Message:
Dear Runamok,

Thanks for the warning, and I think you are wise, although it is a bit late for me... I sent an e.mail to M, or whoever read and answer this stuff, via his site ! But what can happen to me ? Should I fear him sending a couple of goons to my door in order to break both my legs ? Ha, I don't think so... and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it !
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:12:43 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: rich2@globalnet.co.uk
To: d@vid
Subject: Don't worry about cookies..
Message:
First of all D@vid don't worry,

you can delete all the cookies you pick up by going to your Temporary Internet Files directory and then selecting and deleting every single one.

Secondly, as someone here has already posted, there is a nifty little utility available which disables all cookies. Meaning that sites trying to read your info will not be able to. This utility is available from

http:\\www.luckman.com

It is called

Luckman's Anonymous Cookie for Internet Privacy

So worry not, provided that you can keep your lunch down, browse away.

regards

Richard
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:04:06 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Don't worry about cookies..
Message:
So, Richard:

If I download Luckman's utility, it just automatically deletes all cookies, or prevents them from gettin lodged in the first place? So, if I download the utility there is nothing more I have to do?

Thanks
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 23:41:35 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Don't worry about cookies..
Message:
You have to install programs that you download. It's like hooking them up into the system so they can do what they do.

You can go into explorer showing all the files and find it by name. Then, highlight it on the left side showing its contents on the right. Then find the main file (read:program) which will have an exe at the end (.exe). Click on it.

The alternative is to find the command 'run' under 'program' on the start menu.

Don't get confused by all those good puns I didn't make, either.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 10:34:45 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Don't worry about cookies..
Message:
JW,

Not quite. If you want to delete them you can do that manually through your Exporer or other Windows utility. What Luckman's little utility does is prevent other people from reading them, i.e. it disables them.

You can switch Luckman's software on or off with a mouse click at any time so you can allow some sites to read them if that suits you, or not.

The documentation that comes with the download is quite comprehensive.

regards

Richard
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 19:45:14 (EST)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: HALIP
Subject: Maharaji site
Message:
Obviously, the guy feels threatened to go to such length to
justify himself... Keep up the good work, folks, this is not an idle quest : you've hit home, where it hurts him the most : his ego !


You are a brutish piece of shit, aren't you HALIP? If he's hurt at all, it would be because people like you to whom he gave such a beautiful gift as Knowledge, would act out their ignorance so completely. But such is always the case that the shadow is darkest next to the brightest light. Rave on meastro... you play your part so well.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:20:43 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Maharaji site
Message:
You ARE joking right??? Good one, thanks,.

RE: M and his cookies. I am not interested in any of them. I will not fear removal of cookies cause I ain't goin there. Already read enough here to make me see it would be like a combination or listening to him at an 'event' and than going into the 'gallery' at break.

Hey maybe he did do some good graphic work. What the fuck else does he have to do? Yet somehow I see the shadown of a graphic artist / robot in the background happily giving up her/his credit in service, er... participation.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 23:09:58 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Maharaji site
Message:
What was so 'brutish' about HALIP's post?That he rejoices in the exposing of m that occurs on these pages? That he rejoices in this site and forum having an impact on m 'where it hurts him the most:his ego.'??
I've got news for you Nil...there was nothing brutish about the above post, and if you saw it there, its only because a mini -brute like yourself is bound to see brutishness everywhere, even where it DOESN'T EXIST.
You of course are free to defend m all you want, even here on these pages.But everytime you post your bullshit here Nil, you remind everyone of the true slime that m and his blowbaby premies are really all about.You know damn well that the right to express yourself here FREELY , IS NOT A RIGHT WHICH IS ACCORDED TO EX-PREMIES on your enjoying life site.So that which you would take from others , you have no intention of giving yourself.
Like I said, Nil... that's slime.
By the way,I really don't feel that these bullshit attempts of yours to humanize m are going to work.
The world will know this man for what he's truly been during most, if not all of his adult life... and that is, as an EGOMANIACAL PRIMA DONNA OF A CANCEROUS TWISTED TWIT!
Now, humanize that.
Common Nil, why don't you show the mahafuckster what a great blowboy you are!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:52:34 (EST)
From: HALIP
Email: None
To: Nimrod
Subject: Maharaji site
Message:
Dear Nimrod,

Just a small correction : HALIP is a she... but thanks anyway for the support (by the way, I've answered silly Nil -- what can I say, the guy's got no manners, and is obviously a bit on the fanatic side !
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:18:35 (EST)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Nimrod
Subject: Maharaji site
Message:
Hey Nimrod, everytime I post here I'm reminded of how ignorant people get when they are driven by a pack. It's real interesting to see the mob mentality taking over you so called 'free-thinkers'... and coming from people who constantly blame premies for being that way.

No, I don't need to defend M from you lot... I just react to the callous stupidity you think you have the right to express. And I do get some small satisfaction when dweebs like you react so predictably.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 22:59:36 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Maharaji site
Message:
There is no mob mentality!!!!
Yet you see it that way. Why? Do you even want to ask yourself?

The people who post here are all very different. There are personal friendships that have developed here, as well as conflict. The diff between this site and premie sites is, all of this can happen, HERE.

Why? Well first of all ex-premie.org isn't censored. Big one.

Second, we all found this site because of something traumatic or unsettling that happened as a result of your er... what is he now? oh yeah,,, MEDITATION TEACHER, HAH!!! as IF there aren't thousands who could teach those techs.. why HE said himself it's not about the techniques, its the combination of the master the meditation and something I forget - devotion???? he made it into a triangle, sort of like Tinky Winky.
I heard this a year ago so don't tell me he didn't say it.

Mob mentality my ass. This is the first time in years I feel FREE of that type of conditioning and constraint.

But thanks so much for saying it cause it gives me an idea...
no one has written any CORN entries for a while...
hmmm, thousands rushing toward a human carried God in a procession, nah that's not mob mentality.

bM's security stopping a 23 year old mom from leaving the building to feed her toddlers. Nope no mob mentality there. Or is there? They did say Maharaji said not to leave. Oh NO!!!!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 23:10:02 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Nil and Void
Message:
Nil, you're a psychotic premie pitbull creep, and even with all that going for you , you're rapidly becoming a pathetic, laughable bore;INCAPABLE even, as is the case with most of your comrades in gulag premielago, OF SPEAKING EVEN ONE WORD OF TRUTH.
Nil, if you really didn't feel the need to defend your mahafuckster, you wouldn't come here.And you know that , but you lie anyway.Because between me and you Nil, you really don't seem to be 'enjoyig life' here.So,what are you doing here Nil, if you're not defending m? you pathological fuckbrain premie liar!!!
Nah, I won't waste too much energy on you Nil. You're really not worth it.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 20:42:10 (EST)
From: Nil
Email: None
To: Nimrod
Subject: Who da man...
Message:
'...you're ...INCAPABLE even, as is the case with most of your comrades in gulag premielago, OF SPEAKING EVEN ONE WORD OF TRUTH.' '...you pathological fuckbrain premie liar!!!'

Ahh... Nimrod. Having difficulty putting intellegent thoughts together without resorting to baser-level explicatives, are we? You're either having a real bad day or you've just gone off your medication. Hey... I have days like that too. And to say premies are 'incapable ...of speaking one word of truth'. Such callous stereotyping!! I'm sure you really don't believe that (unless of course you really ARE a moron). You were just trying to give me a verbal thrashing that would make me realize what a dominant individual you are, weren't you? You big brute you! Say Nim, some friendly advice... you really shouldn't get so emotional. Stress is a killer you know.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 20:48:58 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Who da man...
Message:
I used profanity descretely, didn't I? I asked questions that I thought were clearly worded, no?
Why don't I deserve an answer?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 21:35:36 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Who da man...
Message:
And to say premies are 'incapable ...of speaking one word of truth'. Such callous stereotyping
Allright, let's start with you Nil.
You said in a prior post that you don't feel the need to defend M from this lot.
Ok, I'm saying that's a lie, that the only reason you're here is to defend m, and nothing else.
Now you won't admit it, because you are, again, a pathological fuckbrain premie liar, totally incapable of speaking one word of truth. How, can anything truthful come from you Nil, when your entire existence is based on a lie... the lie of your mahacancerboy? Its a lie that has, and continues to this day to make a lot of people sick.Too many have died too young in his fuckbrain world, but hey, don't let that STRESS YOU out.

You were just trying to give me a verbal thrashing that would make me realize what a dominant individual you are, weren't you?
Oh Nil, who the fuck would want to dominate you anyways?...I mean BESIDES M?
But I'll tell you what.
If you bend over for me, like you bend over for m...I'll be glad to demonstrate for you...THE FIFTH TECHNIQUE.
Sweet dreams.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 02:13:16 (EST)
From: Roger Drek
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Nil, how dare you?
Message:
Nil,

You come into our house and start calling us names like this? This how you show your gratitude?

Do they let you call people names at www.maharaji.org or www.enjoyinglife.org? I don't think so.

Are we going to boot you off and lock you out? Probably not, unless you get really nasty.

Fact is that the Net is turning into the newspaper publishing of the common man with many, many interests. And sometimes even these small little voices get heard and heeded.

And I would guess that no matter how slick Maharaji's trip is getting with videos, satellite broadcasts, a Gulfstream or whatever he's flying now, the trinket halls at the programs with titanium logoized watches and full size framed photos of Maharaji for $800, the sun is sinking for him in the west.

How many people have you recently told about Knowledge and Maharaji? How many people have you gotten to go to a video? How many of those attended additional videos on their own? How many of those people followed through and got Knowledge? And how many of those are still around after 6 months?

Not many, I'd bet.

For the last 10 or 15 years of my involvement I couldn't bring myself to tell anybody about it. Why? Because I was tired of losing friends and having people think I was a nutcase. And because people just aren't into that stuff anymore. But, mostly because I know that it would be too weird for them because it was too weird for me.

Have a Nice Day!

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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:12:58 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Roger Drek
Subject: Nil, how dare you?
Message:
Roger, I very rarely tell anyone about K anymore for some of the reasons you mentioned and because the selling at large events turns me off, but still I think the experience of K is worthwhile.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:25:51 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: What experience?
Message:
How do YOU know where your 'experience' is coming from?

Can you be a bit more precise?
In what circumstances do you 'experience' whatever YOU feel?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 12:51:41 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: What experience?
Message:
The truth is I don't know exactly where the experience comes from, only that I have it and enjoy it. I made an earlier point of saying that I'm not sure it comes from M, only that he took the time and effort to show it to me (thru an instructor). If nothing else, I'm grateful for that.

Circumstances when I feel this experience can be any--any time day or night, it just starts out of the blue many times, but definately occurs much more frequently the more often I meditate. Also can be 'ignighted' by music, others' words, videos of M, etc.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:34:16 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: A lot to think about
Message:
M keeps saying that it's within you, that it's always been there, that it's soooooo easy .....

How come it's so difficult? and very much related with the involvement in the group?????
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:00:39 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: A lot to think about
Message:
I have found from talking to others that it's easier to experience for some than others. Premies I know admit to limited experience but something keeps them going.

Regarding involvement in the group, not true. I have had great experiences without any group involvement for up to 3 years at a time. Went 8 years at one point without seeing a live program with M, haven't seen him in about 2 years now. I sporadically attend videos lately, but still the experience is there. I believe if I never attended anything related to K for the rest of my life, my experience would still be there.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 16:44:55 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: OK, so?
Message:
Shall we admit that there is something induced by the practice of meditation?

I am very pissed with m, haven't felt anything obviously for more than 2 years from programs or videos or the so-called 'bond' with the BM, and everything is intact in me.

My conclusion is that he's a con man.

No need to devote your life to him or to believe he is I don't know what. He's a very deluded meditation teacher, that's my conclusion.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:30:46 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: OK, so?
Message:
Yes, I think the meditation works. Confused about what to think about M at this point after reading some of the stuff others have gone through that I just wan't aware of. I guess the disgruntled just leave the community instead of hanging around and complaining, so how are lots of us to know about all the negatives? Well, still have to admit I'm grateful, though.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 00:44:14 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: OK, so?
Message:
Denise,

I think that your attitude is healthy. I respect that you meditate and experience something from it. I would urge you to continue doing it regardless of what you read here.

I intend to resume meditating after I divorce Maharaji and his philosophy from the experience.

Interesting how you've had sabbaticals from the Premie world and still experienced meditation. For myself those times I spaced out and viewed lack of experience due to lack of devotion and being involved.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 01:39:42 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Disciple of the community?
Message:
What the 'community' got to do with 'knowledge'????

That a worthwile question to ask, don't you think?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 04:25:53 (EST)
From: ex-mug
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Maharaji site
Message:
Nil, keep taking the Pil
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:48:19 (EST)
From: HALIP
Email: None
To: Nil
Subject: Silly Nil
Message:
Nil, how could you !

Moi, a brutish piece of shit! Oh, such vulgarity ! Naughty, naughty... Don't you have any manners?
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:52:34 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: HALIP
Subject: I can't load M's site-
Message:
it gets stuck on 73% file loaded. Maybe I'm being protected by divine grace. First site I have ever loaded that wouldn't finish loading.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 21:08:10 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: I can't load M's site-
Message:
I hear ya, dv. The Fat Fuck's fraud site takes forever to download. Just like him to be so inconsiderate of other peoples' time. Most webmasters are very cognizant of the fact that few people will want to wait very long for any site to download. It's considered website suicide to do so. So they make sure their sites are user friendly, quick and easy to access and navigate. Not the Fat Fuck. Of course he doesn't give a shit about anyone else, as long as he gets what he wants.

PS Thanks to Denise for ''Fat Fuck'' I like it.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 01:33:33 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I can't load M's site-
Message:
yeah, but gerry, wasn't it worth the wait for those nekid pictures of the BM?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 10:57:31 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: I can't load M's site-
Message:
Barney,

I've got some nekkid pictures for you as soon as I get into town to get them scanned...

PS Goober has bigger tits than my wife, so yeah, it is pretty exciting.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:22:27 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Bwa ha ha
Message:
bwa ha ha....I had to laugh at this one, gerry. As Lena would say, with all his money he can't afford a trainer?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:57:59 (EST)
From: HALIP
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: I can't load M's site-
Message:
Dear DV,

If you can't load M's site, count your blessings ! (just kidding)
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 21:33:13 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: HALIP
Subject: It's a lila, Maharaji
Message:
Good to hear your thoughts on M's site, HALIP. I know I'm repeating myself here but the more I think about this, the more it seems so true;

Maharaji used to talk about lilas but now we are giving him the mother of all lilas for his edification and contemplation. Now Maharaji, perhaps you'll see what a lila really is! And you're right in it boy because we're not going to go away.

Come on Maharaji, don't worry now, this is all a lila. Can't you see the joke in it? I know you've got a sense of humour there somewhere so here we have it: The two armies are standing opposite each other on the battlefield. Maharaji with his few remaining premies at his side, their chariots looking a bit rusty but prepared for the battle to come. And on the opposite side of the battlefield we have the ex-premie hoards.

They are the barbarians. They've nothing to lose and they are battle hardened after years of ashram life and then years of deprogramming afterwards. Yes the ex-premies are like the Mogul hoards of Genghis Khan and they are streaming down the battlefield on their wild horses with a terrifying, mad look in their eyes.

Let battle commence, Maharaji and let the lila begin! This is what you have been waiting for all your life and now we cannot turn back. This is meant to be!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:32:56 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: HALIP
Subject: Name
Message:
Hi Happy to live in Paris,

Sorry for the confusion with names! By the way, we live on the same continent, I think (you mentioned somewhere that you thought we didn't). But the sexes are different.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:07:06 (EST)
From: HALIP
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: Name
Message:
Dear Happy,

My continent is France (a continent to itself -- oh, the French are soooo arrogant !)... What's yours ? Because if it is England, THAT is another continent to itself, for sure (oh, I love the Brits, and the Irish and the Welsh and the Scots, and Nigel has left me a post to explain their differences, and their similarities, the latter being that they all play soccer or football, but I say, they all play rugby,and that's what counts !)

Anyway, nice to meet another 'Happy' !

HALIP
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 15:43:56 (EST)
From: premie/side of 'fries'
Email: None
To: HALIP
Subject: Maharaji site/dedication
Message:
When I saw the dedication I felt a little jilted. He dedicated his site to his father (granted), but then the rest of his dedication was to people (his family) who for the most part maligned and/or deserted him years ago....and then he mentions all who want the best in life...but no mention of his beloved premies, students, followers, disciples, whatever. Is this a legal thing or am I just sensitive, not that I really give a rat's ass.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:29:52 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: premie/side of 'fries'
Subject: Maharaji site/dedication
Message:
Well, it just verifies that he doesn't give a shit about those premies that keep the $ in his pocket. It's plain stupid to shit where you live, you know? If animals know that why doesn't M? Oh I forgot, we're supposed to feel grateful. I seem to be in a rage everytime I check out this website these days, I have none of the patience with premies that I used to have, so I'll just give a primal scream and get back to more cheerful things like the dishes
AAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 13:53:13 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: media investigation
Message:
The posts in this group run the gamut...
everything from efforts to present facts
as best as they can be determined...to
very clever and amusing fiction which
serves in the healing process as being
humorous and detached. We represent
a group of people who have had our discernment
tested by someone who was just smart enough
to get out of the limelight at the right time.
It would be a wonderful moment to use our
efforts to bring ole gmj right back into the
national limelight.

It is hard to determine what hard core
evidence we have in telling the real
story of gmj.

Even what is presented here collectively
is a story which needs telling. Heaven's
Gate, Scientology, the Unification Church
and Jim Jones stories have kept the Cult
issue in the media. It is choice content.

The Enquirer, Star and other tabloids thrive
on digging up dirt. More serious journalism
also looks for deep dark secret organizations
and individuals to investigate. If a position
paper is filed en masse with a whole list of
these type of investigative journalistic organizations
we all stand the chance of allowing the scam to
come to 'light' so to speak. There are vast
investigative media resources available to look
into the affairs of this disappearing guru, if
we have the ability to direct their attention
in his direction.

I would be thrilled to do anything I
can to make even one person recognize the existence
of this cult.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 14:09:26 (EST)
From: Way
Email: None
To: ben there
Subject: media investigation
Message:
I have emailed the National Enquirer informing them of this site and Maharaji.org. They may see the possibility of a story. Other, more legitimate, papers might also be allerted. I viewed the video 'Lord of the Universe' last weekend. Copies of this video could be sent to Investigative Reports on A&E with a notice that the cult continues to this day as evidenced by the websites.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 15:18:35 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: media investigation position
Message:
A potential media submittal:

Whatever happened to the guru who stormed
this country in 1972? He declared he would
stablish peace in this world. After sheparding
thousands of baby boomers into his cult and
holding a 'Millenium' festival at the Houston
Astrodome in 1973 he has managed to drop from
sight. Twenty seven years later one can only
ask, Where has he gone? How much cash did
he take with him?

Somehow he has managed to slip into the underworld
with vast resources from his followers. Reports
exist of fleets of expensive cars and aircraft which
allow him to secretly move between his many upscale
residences. Armies of devoted servants protect
him and allow him to live as a king while huge
numbers of former followers ponder what may have
happened to their financial contributions to
this so called Lord of the Universe.

He has left a trail of sincere seekers in his
wake who have experienced everything from
humiliation about their involvement to serious
cases of mental illness and even suicide.
Many of these followers can't tell exactly
what happened. It is impossible to communicate
or interact with this very clever fellow.
It would undoubtedly take extensive resources
and investigative talents to investigate Prem
Rawat. There have been a number of name changes
that have occurred over the years. How many
checks have been written to Guru Maharaj Ji,
Prem Pal Sing Rawat, Maharaj Ji, or his one
time front Divine Light Mission, and more
recently his front named Elan Vital?
How much more untracable cash has flowed
through his front organizations or to the
various aliases he has used? How much
criminal activity has occurred in hiding,
transferring and investing this cash?

Originally, he was billed as the Lord of the
Universe who freely handed out an ancient
form of knowledge in the guise meditation
techniques empowered by devotion to himself.
He declared he would establish Peace and yet
there is no visible trace of any kind of
effort to accomplish this mission.

Closer inspection reveals that he borrowed
all of these meditation techniques from ancient
vedic practices. He managed to mesmerize a
substantial number of individuals who were
ripe for his charade. Today he continues
to live the life of the rich and famous while
the faithful support him through a secretive
network he has established.

Originally, he prescribed a series of 'Commandments'
which served to hynotize his followers twenty four
hours a day into 'leaving no room for doubt in their
minds.' A true master of control and showmanship
he was and is.

Putting a layer of his most faithful between himself
and his followers he seems to have been successful
at hiding his drinking problems and greed from those
who came to him sincerely seeking enlightenment.

Is he dangerous? He is probably only dangerous
in that he coerces people to surrender their crital
thinking to him for the sake of their enlightenment.
The techniques which he passes out are methods
of experiencing different states of reality. Many of
those who have practiced his regimen have had trips
to the mental ward for tapping into realities beyond
the norm. Unfortunately, the guru disappears when his
disciples reach into the higher worlds. It is the
responsibility of a real guru or teacher to be there
at these times. One can only assume that since Maharaj
Ji has made himself so inaccessible that he is either
incapable of doing his job or that he hasn't ever been
through the advanced experiences himself. He is unqualified
to teach the techniques since he has no care nor concern
for those who have used them to break the code of
consciousness.

He is beyond reach.

Just how many of the trust funds and other donations
which have been turned over to him have been accurately
reported to the governments of the many countries which
he operates is unknown. It is known, however, that he
lives a lifestyle which requires vast amounts of cash
as well as layers of security and secrecy.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 15:25:22 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: ben there
Subject: media investigation position
Message:
How do you know he has a drinking problem?
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 15:42:57 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: media investigation position
Message:
You are right. I don't know if
he really does have a drinking
problem.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 17:09:56 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Denise
Subject: media investigation position
Message:
How do you know he has a drinking problem?

When Maharaji was younger he and his brothers were indulged by the premies in whatever pleasures they wanted. Bob Mishler (see the interview transcript on the site map) related how MJ had a big problem with alchohol around the time of the break with his mother. This isn't particularly shocking if you view him as having only been a typical rich adolescent with no adult supervision in his life outside of those in his organization, rather than viewing him as the LOTU as he promoted himself.

He still likes to drink (cognac I've heard), but I haven't seen anyone testify here to him doing it to excess. His facial complexion doesn't show the signs associated with toxic levels of alchohol, his hands don't shake, and he seems to enjoy the highlife far too much to spend the time sitting around in a drunken stupor. So I personally don't think that he has a drinking 'problem'.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 18:16:48 (EST)
From: Passing thru
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: media investigation position
Message:
Dear Denise,
You don't need to know it, you just say it.
Welcome to this website.
PT
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 20:26:03 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Passing thru
Subject: media investigation position
Message:
Ditto for the premie website(s) Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:24:42 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: ben there
Subject: media investigation position
Message:
It sounds great to me, b.l. , except I have some concerns about suggesting that the meditation helps one 'reach other realms/tap into other worlds'. I think that this statement indirectly legitimizes Gm as some sort of Hindu master. From what I have come to understand reading this web site, the experience in meditation is a mere brain/pituitary stimulation. And some folks didn't have an experience at all. I think what makes GM dangerous is that people are brainwashed to attribute whatever experience they have in meditation to Guru M. So that devotion is part of the knowledge package, but this is not said up front to 'aspirants' (or whatever they are called these days). It's very subtle. The dangerous part is that people are programmed to not apply critical thinking to Maharaji.

Your point about GM not caring about people's experiences in meditation is a good one, I'd take it one step further and say that he doesn't give a shit about premies at all--his behavior certainly shows this--the Decca project (can you say liver cancer) the closing of the ashrams, the suicides. Also, I'm not sure if the meditation caused mental illness so much as the WHOLE PACKAGE of being told to surrender your life, cut off connections with friends and family, don't trust your mind, etc. You can email me if you want me to elaborate
my em:
HelenRDC@aol.com
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 22:05:50 (EST)
From: Tom
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: media investigation position
Message:
Valid point re: pituitary stimulation. Receptivity may be totally independent of GMJ. Some get it, others don't. Genetic? Mental?
Spiritual? Perhaps a combination.

Ben, I agree if he's still exploiting at the expense of others, an investigation is in order. With his known weaknesses, perhaps he can be 'set up' (with a camera nearby). He can't hide forever, can he? A resourceful mole, perhaps...
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:16:42 (EST)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Click on the Light
Message:
Oooooh, I got mad when I saw that logo for the Inner Light on Maharaji.org. I emailed Maharaji from his site, saying that the light is within each person and does not belong to him. His attempts to cover his lies has got me angry now.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:34:27 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Click on the Light
Message:
Hey, what's that about BM's 'stepmother'. He mentions her twice on his obnoxious, deceitful website. Anyone know about his stepmother?
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:49:21 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Click on the Light
Message:
I haven't 'clicked on the light' - too disgusted about it - so I don't know in what connection he talks about a stepmother. But PremPals father had two wives, if I recall correctly. I don't know what happened to the first one, if she got kicked out of the house when 'Mata Ji' appeared on the scene or not.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 10:55:35 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: Click on the Light
Message:
That must be it, Shri Hans second wife. Like father, like son.

Yes, you don't want to click on the light, unless you're prepared to be sick to your stomach. Personally, I think this is the biggest event since BM's first trip to the West. All of the lies and hypocrisy are laid out unabashedly.

By the way, what is 'web conversion'? Does that mean that BM said I want a 'swirl' to be here on the web site, and some web designer made it, and then BM takes credit for it?
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 11:16:56 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: The 'Stepmother'
Message:
She was Shri Hans' first spouse, and they had 1 or 2 daughters, can't remember.

I guess he mentions her, because he does not want to talk about HIS mother.
His stepmother was on his side after the schism, of course I guess she didn't like mataji too much.

She even had her own residence (building) in the New Delhi (Mehrauli) ashram.

Talk about lying and hiding truth!
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 21:46:31 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: m+his mom
Message:
It's obvious that m is more fond of his stepmother's memory than he is in remembering and honoring his own mother.In fact JM, I got this from Ann Johnston, that when mataji died, m took out an add in at least one Indian newspaper,expressing the grief of all those who had loved and worshipped shri hans, that his wife mataji had passed away.
BUT,there was not one word of or reference to mataji being the mother of the current maharaji, namely himself(at least in his own mind )
I also heard, (and I wondered if someone can corroberate this)that when mataji came to m's residence where he was already shacked up with marolyn, to protest the marriage and threaten him that she would put bubblegumji on the throne if he, m, would not concede to her demands to cease and desist with his newly adopted and foolish(at least in mataji's mind) western ways...THAT M HAD MATAJJI ESCORTED TO THE AIRPRT AT GUNPOINT, and told in no uncertain terms that if she didn't get on the plane back to India, she would be in for one mahafuck of an experience, perhaps even the final one.
Does anyone know anything about this?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:21:46 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Nimrod
Subject: early 70's stories
Message:
Hi Nimrod,
I have the DLM report about her visit to his house.
I will post it and send it to brian.
She came to the house with tandon and whomever, and
security didnt let her in.
She called the cops and said that her son was being held by
dlm managers and he was underage.
Cops came, met with rawat, he told the cops to have her call
in the morning for an appointment.
That meeting the next day was the last time he saw her
for 18 years till she attained the ultimate samahdi and
became one with him then.

You know, she might have, probably did have m's security
escort her around from that point. And watch her leave
at the airport. Little god ji would have felt more
exalted having his security lackeys do that. And mom
probably felt ok with security in this western maya.
So, it may be true that security (with guns) escorted her to
the airport.

He had earlier told mata ji and big brother he would go to
india may 20th if they would go back. They did go back
and put bars on his bedroom windows and doors and planned
to imprison him till he came to his senses.
true
But on may 20, rawat got married.
Mom came to america to talk to him one last time before she
went public with her view that he was NOT the lord and
big bro was the guru.
I was deaf.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 23:39:57 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: early 70's stories
Message:
Hi bill,
Thanks for a fuller, more informed recap of those events.I was always kind of curious about just how m ended his relationship with shmataji.
Man, don't you miss listening to her sing ' Apne Hasti' or something like that?
It was enough to make a grown man cry.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 16:39:35 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Click on the Light
Message:
I think his stepmother was his father's first wife. He had 2 wives at the same time. This woman was always loyal to him,, He also has a half sister.
I remember in one And It is divine magazine when the story was told of how hans met mataji. It went something like this:
Hansji was giving satsang in some place and a devotee came up to him and said, my daughter drew a picture of a man which she saw in a dream, this man is you and should marry her'...etc..etc..cosmic..cosmic...bollocks.

Maybe someone remembers the story better.
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Date: Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 11:01:28 (EST)
From: Johnny Cochran
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Click on the Light
Message:
As soon as I analyze the legal document preceding the site, I may click on the light, depending on mitigating circumstances heretofore, aforementioned whereas circa habea corpus christi, etc etc, etc.
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