Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 38

From: Feb 12, 1999

To: Feb 21, 1999

Page: 2 Of: 5



ben there -:- master rap -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 21:35:25 (EST)
__cp -:- rap on there -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 23:10:18 (EST)
____cp -:- timing -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 23:21:28 (EST)
______ben there -:- posophy and trolls -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 00:08:46 (EST)
________cp -:- posophy and trolls -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 00:28:43 (EST)
__________ben there -:- posophy and trolls -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 01:50:14 (EST)
__bill -:- master rap -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 01:39:26 (EST)
__Zac -:- Love the master rap (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 07:52:49 (EST)

Stevei -:- No Monica TAPES HERE -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:17:02 (EST)
__gerry -:- Hey Einstein -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:27:29 (EST)
__JW -:- No Monica TAPES HERE -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:12:53 (EST)
____Stevei -:- JW what is the problem then? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:31:47 (EST)
______JW -:- JW what is the problem then? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:12:05 (EST)
________Denise -:- Ashrams -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:33:36 (EST)
__________JW -:- Ashrams -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 18:45:39 (EST)
____________g's mom -:- Ashrams -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 19:10:48 (EST)
______________Helen -:- Ashrams -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 19:31:51 (EST)
________________Helen -:- Ashrams -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 19:33:45 (EST)
__Mickey the Pharisee -:- No Monica TAPES HERE -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:04:24 (EST)
____Stevei -:- He aint my master -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 03:34:05 (EST)
______gerry -:- He aint my master -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 11:21:02 (EST)
______Mickey the Pharisee -:- He aint my master -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 11:23:03 (EST)
__ham -:- No Monica TAPES HERE -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:48:22 (EST)
__Mike -:- BE PROUD, stevei -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 18:05:54 (EST)
____Stevei -:- BIO -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 03:39:36 (EST)
______chr -:- BIO -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 22:03:56 (EST)
________Stevei -:- TELL ME YOUR EXPERIENCE -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 14:17:00 (EST)
__________chr -:- TELL ME YOUR EXPERIENCE -:- Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 16:58:11 (EST)

Mike Fronke -:- Get A Life -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:00:05 (EST)
__Mike -:- Got one, thanks! -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:08:57 (EST)
____Mike Fronke -:- Got one, thanks! -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:16:13 (EST)
______Denise -:- Got one, thanks! -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:34:33 (EST)
________Mike Fronke -:- Got one, thanks! -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:46:45 (EST)
__________gerry -:- right arm! -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:53:06 (EST)
____________Mike Fronke -:- Dumb Brain! -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:00:36 (EST)
______________gerry -:- Dumb Brain! -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:07:49 (EST)
________________Mike Fronke -:- May 2, 1982 -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 14:26:25 (EST)
__________________dv -:- You experience a buzz you can' -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 23:22:20 (EST)
__________________gerry -:- May 2, 1982 -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 00:01:45 (EST)
______________Helen -:- Truth -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 14:56:58 (EST)
__________ex-mug -:- Got one, thanks! -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:52:49 (EST)
______AE -:- We gave Maharaji a gift -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:36:52 (EST)
________Mike Fronke -:- We gave Maharaji a gift -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:51:38 (EST)
______Mike -:- Waste of time? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:52:12 (EST)
________Runamok -:- Waste of time? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:09:17 (EST)
__________Mike -:- Waste of time? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:20:51 (EST)
________Zac -:- Why so concerned? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:11:02 (EST)
__________Mike -:- Hey Zack -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:16:50 (EST)
____________ZAC -:- Hey Zack -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:28:34 (EST)
______ex-mug -:- Got one, thanks! -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:49:41 (EST)
______dv -:- It's to try to prevent more du -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 23:14:27 (EST)
__Fronke if you love -:- maharjus! -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 18:02:07 (EST)
____Mike Fronke -:- maharjus! -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 14:18:50 (EST)
______bill burke -:- maharjus! -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 18:19:55 (EST)

Denise -:- Does I Make You Horny? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:30:33 (EST)
__Denise -:- Does It Make You Horny? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:33:38 (EST)
____gerry -:- Does It Make You Horny? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:41:09 (EST)
______Denise -:- Does It Make You Horny? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:44:55 (EST)
________gerry -:- Does It Make You Horny? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 10:45:56 (EST)
__Sir David -:- Does I Make You Horny? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 10:39:23 (EST)
____Happy -:- Does I Make You Horny? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 10:56:50 (EST)
____Denise -:- Does It Make You Horny? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 11:40:48 (EST)
__John -:- Lurid details within, beware -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 11:43:09 (EST)
____Denise -:- Lurid details within, beware -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 11:48:19 (EST)
______Stevei -:- Denise my dear -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:32:20 (EST)
________Denise -:- Denise my dear -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:37:17 (EST)
__________Stevei -:- Attorney....Oh God -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:11:06 (EST)
__ham -:- Does I Make You Horny? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:28:55 (EST)
____Sir Dave -:- Does It make you Barmy? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:50:05 (EST)
______Helen -:- How sweet (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:35:10 (EST)

Roger Drek -:- New Dreky idea - press officer -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 01:46:49 (EST)
__AE -:- New Dreky idea - press officer -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 04:14:10 (EST)
__cp -:- press officer idea -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 05:27:00 (EST)
__Runamok -:- New Dreky idea - press officer -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 00:48:28 (EST)

The february 1999 -:- 'keeping in touch' issue. -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 22:46:27 (EST)
__Denise -:- 'keeping in touch' issue. -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:02:44 (EST)
__JW -:- 'keeping in touch' issue. -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 12:36:16 (EST)
____Nimrod -:- 'keeping in touch' issue. -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 13:10:53 (EST)
______JW -:- 'keeping in touch' issue. -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 13:37:10 (EST)
________g's mom -:- Don't miss JW's post above -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 13:49:08 (EST)
__________Happy -:- Don't miss JW's post above -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 13:53:16 (EST)
________ham -:- 'keeping in touch' issue. -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:43:07 (EST)
________Nimrod -:- 'keeping in touch' issue. -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 19:46:53 (EST)
________Roger Drek -:- snagging that for Drek page! -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 12:28:38 (EST)

a nonny mouse -:- Hide it, quick... -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:44:19 (EST)
__Selene -:- Hide it, quick... -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:52:43 (EST)
__douche -:- Hide it, quick... -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:54:42 (EST)
____douche -:- Hide it, quick... -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:18:37 (EST)
____Ben Lurking -:- Hide it, quick... -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 00:21:28 (EST)
____barney -:- tattoo ID on your forehead! -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 02:37:23 (EST)
__JW -:- Copyright Law. -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:38:54 (EST)
____ben there -:- Prem Pal Paranoiac -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 21:14:06 (EST)
______dv -:- Yes, over the years, M has cer -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 23:41:54 (EST)
____Jean-Michel -:- Copyright relationship -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 01:36:29 (EST)
__dv -:- Dear M, I fear my ID # is bein -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 23:37:57 (EST)
__Jean-Michel -:- New Quote for my site! -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 01:33:04 (EST)
____Jean-Michel -:- Here it is Prempal! -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:33:23 (EST)

Sir David -:- A most unfriendly place -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 16:26:27 (EST)
__Robyn -:- A most unfriendly place -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:42:58 (EST)
__Mickey the Pharisee -:- A most unfriendly place -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 22:46:44 (EST)
____chr -:- A most unfriendly place -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:10:05 (EST)
____Sir David -:- A most unfriendly place -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:53:01 (EST)

JW -:- Amazing, Just Amazing -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 15:47:37 (EST)
__Rick -:- Amazing, Just Amazing -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 16:05:34 (EST)
____JW -:- Amazing, Just Amazing -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:47:58 (EST)
______Rick -:- Amazing, Just Amazing -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:27:17 (EST)
________Marshall -:- Amazing, Just Amazing -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:46:03 (EST)
________JW -:- Amazing, Just Amazing -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:46:29 (EST)
__________Rick -:- Amazing, Just Amazing -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:54:25 (EST)
____________JW -:- Amazing, Just Amazing -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:57:38 (EST)
______________Rick -:- Amazing, Just Amazing -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:08:05 (EST)
________________JW -:- Amazing, Just Amazing -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:14:49 (EST)
__________________ben there -:- He speaks nonesense -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:36:07 (EST)
________________Jethro -:- Amazing, Just Amazing -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 02:34:20 (EST)
________dv -:- Amazing, Just Amazing -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 23:22:59 (EST)
__________Rick -:- Amazing, Just Amazing -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 00:08:55 (EST)
__________John -:- Amazing, Just Amazing -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 12:38:12 (EST)
____________Zac -:- Stupid, just stupid -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:40:38 (EST)
__Scott T. -:- The Lotus Foot -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 18:27:53 (EST)

Stevei -:- Proof of Techniques of K -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:48:40 (EST)
__Denise -:- Proof of Techniques of K -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:53:49 (EST)
__gerry -:- Proof of Techniques of K -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:56:54 (EST)
____Marshall -:- Proof of Techniques of K -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:14:04 (EST)
____Jerry -:- Proof of Techniques of K -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:48:24 (EST)
____Stevei -:- 4K Then and Now -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 15:15:52 (EST)
______Jerry -:- Tunnels of light -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 15:37:47 (EST)
________Stevei -:- Full of Life -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 15:47:03 (EST)
__________Jerry -:- Full of Life -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 16:24:14 (EST)
____________Stevei -:- Light without K -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 16:47:09 (EST)
______________Jerry -:- Light without K -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:03:48 (EST)
____________Red -:- Full of something -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:17:21 (EST)
______________Jerry -:- Full of something -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:34:34 (EST)
________________Red -:- Maybe it's tragic -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:40:42 (EST)
__________________Jerry -:- Abracadabra -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:20:58 (EST)
____________________Red -:- Abracadabra -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:29:27 (EST)
____________________Robyn -:- Abracadabra -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 16:19:26 (EST)
______________________Jerry -:- Abracadabra -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 15:11:31 (EST)
______________Mike -:- Full of something -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:29:02 (EST)
________________Red -:- Full of something -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:10:38 (EST)
__________________Mike -:- Full of something -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:42:55 (EST)
____________________Red -:- Full of something -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 18:25:52 (EST)
______________________Mike -:- Decent question, Red -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 19:07:48 (EST)
________________________Red -:- Decent question, Red -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 01:18:54 (EST)
__________________________Mike -:- Meaning of my life -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 18:52:05 (EST)
____________________________Red -:- Meaning of my life 2 -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 19:15:08 (EST)
________________Scott T. -:- verifiability -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 21:14:57 (EST)
__________________Mike -:- verifiability -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 14:26:29 (EST)
____________________Red -:- The little Bliss Ball. -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 17:11:27 (EST)
______________________Mike -:- The Base Ball. -:- Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 18:43:16 (EST)
________________________Happy -:- experiencing and understanding -:- Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 10:48:18 (EST)
______Sorry steven! That's not -:- the knowledge!! -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:48:02 (EST)
________Sir David -:- What knowledge really is -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:53:20 (EST)
__Again, Steven, what -:- exactly have you experienced. -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:09:37 (EST)
____And Denise, what -:- exactly have you experienced. -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:14:12 (EST)
______Happy -:- techniques once more -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:25:39 (EST)
______Denise -:- exactly have you experienced. -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:07:13 (EST)
________gerry -:- thanks Stevei and Denise -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:21:56 (EST)
__________Denise -:- thanks Stevei and Denise -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:45:34 (EST)
____________Rick -:- thanks Stevei and Denise -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:50:03 (EST)
______________Denise -:- thanks Stevei and Denise -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:56:06 (EST)
________________Rick -:- thanks Stevei and Denise -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:23:36 (EST)
________________Marshall -:- secret techniques -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:26:56 (EST)
__________________Denise -:- secret techniques -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 21:02:28 (EST)
____________________Sir David -:- Nothing fishy???!!! -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 22:57:08 (EST)
____________________Marshall -:- secret techniques -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 22:58:02 (EST)
____________________Rick -:- secret techniques -:- Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 23:38:47 (EST)
__chr -:- Proof of Techniques of K -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:23:43 (EST)
____Stevei -:- 1+1+1 = 3 -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 07:10:28 (EST)
______Denise -:- 1+1+1 = 3 -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:24:15 (EST)
______Happy -:- age of techniques -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:45:08 (EST)
______gerry -:- 1+1+1 = 3 -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:54:37 (EST)
________Jerry -:- 1+1+1 = 3? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 12:08:01 (EST)
__________gerry -:- Damn the luggare! LOL (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 12:15:55 (EST)
____________Stevei -:- Hehehe Luggare -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:30:10 (EST)
__________Jean-Michel -:- No karma, RELAXATION! -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 12:17:06 (EST)
__________Denise -:- 1+1+1 = 3? -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:23:50 (EST)
______Mike -:- gee Stevei -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:49:16 (EST)
______Mickey the Pharisee -:- 1+1+1 = 3 -:- Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 21:57:00 (EST)


Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 21:35:25 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: master rap
Message:
Everthing which follows is only one persons opinion. It may not be true for anyone else but today it is true for me.

A 'master' would never state that he or she was a 'master.' IMHO the events which bring one to the point of mastery of the spiritual experience convey a deeply awesome humility and sense of compassion. This humility stems from the process of passing through several levels of psychic terror which the consciousness must pass to see what is on the other side of life. (Rudolph Steiner described these as the 'lesser and greater guardians of the threshold.) ((for whatever that is worth))

A 'master' would never encourage large numbers of people in the wholesale practices of moving the consciousness out of the familiar levels. For what it is worth, the Kaballah says that of three who try, one will die, one will go insane, and one will make it.

A 'master' knows that he or she must be present during the critical stages of this experience for those who are trying to make it, lest they are thrown into the dens of the insane.

There are hundreds if not thousands of methods of getting the kundalini to rise to the degree where the crown chakra opens. Every system of consciousness expansion has its unique terminology to describe these sanscrit derived terms. These methods have been practiced for aeons of time and are recorded in many ancient texts. Anyone who wants to find methods of transcendence can take their pick. Methods in themselves are as abundant as they are meaningless. 'Masters' exist to assist those who are at the point in the practice when the known reality cracks open. The phrase 'the master appears when the student is ready' is probably true.

In India there is a guru or fakir on every street corner. We didn't know this in the West during the seventies. We accepted things at face value. We were in a state of rebellion against all things established. We had been blatantly betrayed by our government who either sent us off to a meaningless war, to prison or to exile in Canada. The last thing that we expected was to be betrayed by someone who was billed as a 'Perfect Master.' We didn't know these guys were standing around on every street corner in India. We had no cultural history to aid us in our discernment. A 'master' would be someone who taught discernment. If we have learned anything, it might be discernment. We kick ourselves for having been so blind. Hopefully, we can now see.

A 'master' would be someone who would humbly show up exactly when we began to crack the cosmic code...not someone standing on a dias in front of a crowd while wearing a tinsel crown and flambouyant costume. A 'master' would understand sincerity and the danger of tackling the process of expanding consciousness. The 'glittery jeweled crown' is only a shadow of the real thing...the awakened crown depicted in some western religious iconography. When the crown opens, it feels like these depictions look, but no one who was gifted with the mental/neurological experience would ever prance around in silk pants before thousands of people. It is way more subtle than that. Our own ability to perceive these subtleties was not yet developed when we gazed at him. We had a lot to learn.

I have heard that Meher Baba created a place for people who had gone nuts in their advanced stages of practicing yoga. He was right there for them. I don't know whether he was a master or not but I know that he was aware of the fact that many yogis eventually lost touch during the process of realization or whatever you want to call it. He at least knew that when things began to happen people could use some help. Maharaji is equally inaccessible at all times unless one's pockest are deep.

A 'master' would understand that it is simplicity and the small things which count in life. He or she would understand that the modern model of wealth and consumerism is destructive to the planet and all of the species which inhabit it. A master would never bomb around in big machines dumping tons of carbon dioxide into the air we all have to breathe.

A 'master' would go about his affairs secretly knowing that he or she lived in a miraculous matrix of wonder.

Now some will ask who am I to know what a master would do or would say.

I am a discerning human being. I have learned to look for and acknowledge red flags in all facets of my life. We were endowed with an ability to question...whenever we are discouraged from using our faculties of reason we are being asked to be less than we are.

I believe that there is good in life and that I am most likely to find it when I walk away as far and as fast as my feet will carry me when I encounter anyone or anything that in any way shape or form resembles Maharaji.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 23:10:18 (EST)
From: cp
Email: None
To: ben there
Subject: rap on there
Message:
Hello Mr There
It was very good to read your post.

DO you have much to do with the Posophy?
IF so,I would like to Thread into the 'Experiencing the being of god in the etheric vs this inner light'
I know it is not a matter of VS, but I hope you understand me.

I have convrsations with premies on the subject, but they are a bit limited, because they get freaked out if they accidentally start to think.

It is a pleasure to hear an ex expound on the subject.

I PRINTED it.Dont hit me with a cookie
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 23:21:28 (EST)
From: cp
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: timing
Message:
Just wanted to say that I am very interested in this, but may delay in getting back.
Working 2 jobs and keeping the troll under the sink fed...
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 00:08:46 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: cp,scott t.
Subject: posophy and trolls
Message:
kindred spirits in a menagerie

VS?? what's that?
'posophy',
some real answers are hidden there...
to questions no one else could
answer. No cookies, just glad
to hear there is some resonance
here.

two jobs + a troll...enough to keep
anyone busy...but such is the price
of survival in this world gone mad.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 00:28:43 (EST)
From: cp
Email: None
To: ben there
Subject: posophy and trolls
Message:
VS - verses, adverse to, version of , vis-a-vis.

Posophy as in Anthro.

I know I am doing this with mirrors.

Your right, answers noone else can answer.

Greetings
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 01:50:14 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: posophy and trolls
Message:
I got the posophy,

now I get the vs.=versus

In my own little old experience it is the development of focus upon that which is subtle which allows one to walk into the gelatinous substance of the aethers. There one can see the causal forces from which form the crystaline structure we know of as reality is shaped. There is great danger involved in the process of walking in consciousness into the aether or etheric realm. It is a vast unknown which is exceeds the capacity of the rational mind to comprehend. All manner of unknown force exists in this realm. Some of it is aligned with the intelligence which guides human evolution, some of it waits in prey for audacious humans to venture there. That which waits in prey is chaotic energy trapped in the causal realm without form of nurturance. It has the need to attach itself to concentrated consciousness in order to maintain its essence. It is fearful, sycophantic and terribly misaligned. Most of the first encounters in the expanded realms of consciousness occur with these terribly misaligned 'entities' if you will. They have all of the capacities of that realm, ie. clairvoyance, clairaudience, clairnescience, clairsentience, etc. Unfortunate human beings who venture into this realm without knowing that all that glitters there is not gold often go mad. The job of the 'master' is to see that the expander of consciousness knows that these things exist out there.
When these forces connect with a wayfarer in that realm they often pronounce to the journer that 'he is somehow very special,
perhaps he is god.' One of the first questions that a shrink asks someone when they start acting crazy enough to be interviewed by one is...'so Mr________ do you have some kind of special relationship to God?' If the answer is yes, there is a pretty good chance that the individual fits into some catagory of mental illness and earns a place in the locked ward. It is unfortunate that Mr. Rawat didn't grow up in a society which had given all power to the psychiatric profession.

Mastery is being able to move consciousness into other realms and deal with what is there. Without getting connected to one of these misaligned chaotic energies which gains the attention of the consciousness traveller by clearly wispering You are God to the victim. This method of entity attachment causes the journier who has traces of self importance to embody the misaligned energy. It is such a personal journey that once it begins a traveller truly looses concern for things of this world. There are many wonderous things in this realm as well but the traveller is fair game for everything out there when he or she pokes his or her head into the Aethers.

A true master would instruct his students in methods of challenging that which is encountered in the other realm...methods of discernment. Once a misaligned energy attaches itself the whole trip is ruined. Usually one has to start over. There is no protection there and the individuals ego is a detriment instead of an asset. It is the threads of individual ego identity which magnetically attract the chaotic entity.

There is an entire causal universe happening right before our very eyes but because we have not understood the methods of opening our organs of higher perception we can't experience it.

The techniques of developing and finally opening our organs of higher perception are related to the development and stimulation of our endocrine system. Maharajis methods are a few of many many many many methods which train and practice the endocrine systems subtle faculties or organs of higher perception. Some individuals have innate proclivities to be able to open these faculties more easily than others. It is not a game of devotion, it is a matter of training the consciousness in subtleties. Having gotten himself into a default guru situation when he obviously has no idea what any of this is about is quite a fluke. These mysteries were studied and practiced in absolute secrecy because they are so profound. His packaging and marketing them is a cosmic travesty which has and will cause tremendous suffering to the fabric of his own consciousness.

for whatever it is or isn't worth.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 01:39:26 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: ben there
Subject: master rap
Message:
You know, just because humans are -monkey see monkey do-
and there is a track record of those that want to speak
as or for the original self concious intelligence, can you tell
me where you think you see the results of all thier doing?

If it comes down to having a attitude that I should have
a positive approach to those I can, and a positive approach
to life itself, what do I need the input of self appointed
'masters' for?
They have that narcissist bug in them for the most part.
They want to tell me how to dress, eat, spend my time,
think, act, spend my money, spend my time, you name it.

Is it possible that in your neighborhood there are a dozen
folks that would be more than happy to run your life?

Anyone in your family that tries that now?
If there is a career path that allows any joe blow to
just self appoint himself as a director of lives as the
'open channel of god', sure enough, people will do it.

Look at the explosion of those types in america now.
Once word got out that you could reinvent your self as
god realized and a 'egoless mirror' so that in fact you were
the god, based on your own unprovable claim that you had the
'sajrow jv samahdhi' (or whatever the spelling), hey! a
new master was born!
AND, like the WHO song, 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'
YOU (me) are now not living freely but have embraced slavery.
For god of course, so it is ok.

Hey, many paths to the one right?
No, just two.
Freedom
slavery
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 07:52:49 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: ben there
Subject: Love the master rap (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:17:02 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: No Monica TAPES HERE
Message:
Come on guys.....This stuff about sex scandals and Monica and Claudia and Marolyn....well its just hearsay ...sorry guys...I mean there is no first hand knowldge of this...I heard this sister..tell me that she thinks that....This is all bullshit...

It was not like we had the Monica Lewinsky tapes....and even then Bill was quitted......Just rumours...

By the way...I never paid M a single cent for anything...and he never asked me....How about that...Sure I was around when they were fund raising for his plane...but I never gave a cent....
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:27:29 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: Hey Einstein
Message:
Ah, never mind. I feel sorry for you.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:12:53 (EST)
From: JW
Email: JW
To: Stevei
Subject: No Monica TAPES HERE
Message:
I couldn't care less about Maharaji's sex life. That's not at all relevent to the problems I have with him. [But I have personally spoken with people who have been on Maharaji's staff and they confirm many of these things. Moreoever, we keep getting the same, consistent reports from other sources. So, no, there aren't any TAPES, just people saying what they saw.] Although his immorality is hypcritical, because it went on while he required his ashram premies to be celibate, again, that isn't the problem I have with him and I would have the same problem with him if he saintly in his personal life.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:31:47 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: JW what is the problem then?
Message:
JW...you say u spoke to other sources who were on his staff...did they tell you THEY SAW THESE THINGS....or are they reporting SECOND HAND..

SO JW what is the Problem then ...if u dont care about his sex life?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:12:05 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: JW what is the problem then?
Message:
I think it's a much more personal thing for each ex-premie. I received knowledge in 1973 at age 20. I really bought into Maharji's statements about bringing peace to the world, and I, like most of the other premies I knew, believed he was god, based entirely on what he did and said. If you were around between 1973 and 1983, you know what that's all about.

So, I moved into his ashrams and I was poor and celibate for 10 years, alientated my family, turned over my trust fund as well as all my income, refrained from pursuing a family or a career, etc. I actually didn't like living in the ashram anyway, but I stayed because god incarnate commanded me no to doubt and I attended ashram meetings in which Maharaji disparaged anyone who even considered leaving.

So, eventually, I became so miserable as a premie I left, both the ashram and Maharaji in 1983, at age 30, starting lief all over, 10 years behind. Maharaji dumped the ashrams that same year, never bothering to explain what that whole trip was about, and why he allowed people to sacrifice what they did if he wasn't really into the ashrams in the first place.

So, that's my personal problem with him, I mean how it affects me personally. What I have discovered is that I became much, much happier when I stopped practicing knowledge, and that basically Maharaji was heading a cult, that actually was quite damaging to me, both physically and psychologically. It took me a lot of years to get over the programming.

Now, I know others didn't get into it as much as I did, so they may not feel this way, but I think it's indicative of how Maharaji never cared about his devotees, he was basically out for himself, and although he hasn't been very successful in 'spreading knowledge' and doesn't even claim to be bringing peace to the world anymore, he has collected hundreds of millions of dollars and has accumulated fantastic wealth for himself, which, I believe, is is real goal anyway.

Now we find that Maharaji is trying to hide his past, and I'm against allowing that, because it's my past too, and I do not intend to allow him to just sweep it under the carpet and blame it on others.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:33:36 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Ashrams
Message:
And to think for years I was so jealous of the premies who got to live in the ashram! Oops, my son is reading this over my shoulder, gotta go!
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 18:45:39 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Ashrams
Message:
Denise, I was jealous of the ashram premies, too, that's why I applied and moved in. I was jealous at their opportunity to dedicate their lives to Maharaji in a way he had set up. I didn't have kids so I was able to do so.

So, tell me Denise. Don't you think Maharaji has an obligation to the people who wasted years of their lives in his ashrams, under his direction, because he portrayed himself as the lord of the universe, to at least acknowledge the fact that a monastic institution wasn't such a good idea? I mean he got rid of the ashrams, and apparently 'evolved' enough to figure out they weren't worth continuing, but what about the premies to lost so much for all those years prior?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 19:10:48 (EST)
From: g's mom
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Ashrams
Message:
I would like to see what you have to say to JW about ashrams and if you can about what I said about Rawat and why I feel one really cannot in good conscience say he is just a sweet little meditation teacher. I see a degree of fairness and openmindedness in your posts and I am interested to hear what you say.

By the way, watch that kid reading over your shoulder thing, that is how my presence, which is rather sporadic, on this forum started. My teenage son, who I had never explained my guru years to, I find them embarrassing, was reading over my shoulder and wanted to know why I ever was in a cult. I was not ready to talk about it having just discovered the forum and opened some old wounds after never even knowing that Guru Mahahraj Ji was now Maharaji and that Divine Light Mission was now Elan Vital or whatever it is now. Anyway, my son creative sneaky person he is posted that he wanted people to explain to him what it was!!!! I got a tad freaked when I read CDs little aspirant type speech to MY son and let him have it....and I have been reading off and on and posting off and on since. Thus my name G's mom, as my son posted under the pseudonym Gunther Glockenspiel.

I know it was not your experience Denise but I felt reading what CD wrote a little like my son was being targeted by one of those internet predators. I really overreacted. I think it is because I joined the cult at a very young age and I wish that my mom, who I love and forgive, had been able to protect me from the guru and his cult. I never gave much money either, hey all I had was my allowance, but I gave years, time, energy, and potential. I emerged not really able to participate in life in a normal way for a long time. I still think spending my adolescence in a cult has colored a lot about my personality. One never really knows what might have been, and despite all of this my life is really pretty great right now. But for a long time it was not, and if I could go back and change one thing it would be that I never heard of Divine Light Mission. No, of course one never knows for sure, but I think I likely would have been much better off.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 19:31:51 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: g's mom & JW
Subject: Ashrams
Message:
Thanks so much for those posts. I am taking a break from posting so much on the forum because I am finding that premies posting here gets me too frustrated. So thanks for the clarity and for keeping up in giving honest answers to people's questions.

I am increasingly impatient with premies who seem to not be able to make the connection as to why it is WRONG to continue defending someone who is amoral, and unethical all because of a 'great' experience. There just seems to be such a disconnect between basic human values and decency in these rationales, and it is really starting to get to me. So I am taking a break from posting so much here, as I seem to have no tolerance for premies at all these days and I don't like being mean to people.

ANyway thanks for those posts--they restored my hope that there is sanity here after all.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 19:33:45 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Friends on forum
Subject: Ashrams
Message:
I hope people will keep in touch if they feel so inspired, I've met many great people here, my email is HelenRDC@aol.com
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:04:24 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: No Monica TAPES HERE
Message:
Gee, Stevei, aren't you wonderful? You never gave ol' M a thing! You da man! Why do you hang around here? I would think that you would want to spend your time at www.ohmaharajigavemesuchawonderfulgiftitissooooobeautifulandiamsofullofgratitudeijustdonotknowwhattodobutiwillsitunderablankethyperventilatingandsqueezingmyeyeballohitissooooobeautiful.org? Or you could spend your day swaping cookies with his controlingness at www.mahacookie.org.
Well, you are right; we don't have any tapes of your Master porking his photographer, but even if we did, wouldn't you accuse us of tampering with the tape? What would it take to convince you, Stevei, that Maharaji is a fraud?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 03:34:05 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: He aint my master
Message:
Listen Mickey...you got few things wrong...first M is not my master...What I am saying is that really when it comes to it...if we bring him into court for charges of sexual whatever...will these charges stick...I guess the answer is really no...because we dont have any evidence...it is just hearsay..someone said this...and I heard this person say that...do u understand what I am saying...I think we have to agree that this is the case...

Secondly...alot of our info is outdated...like 15 to 20 years old...we really have no idea what he is doing now...what his life style is...I would like to see more recent info from premies round him now...

By the way...is this Malibu Mole...real...
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 11:21:02 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: He aint my master
Message:
By the way...is this Malibu Mole...real...

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 11:23:03 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: He aint my master
Message:
You're right, we can't proove the sexual charges, and I really don't think anyone on this site can bring him to court over that stuff. If we were to sue him, it should be over fraud. As far as our information is concerned, some of our information is new. There are people here who escaped his clutches recently. And I apologise for saying M is your Master if he isn't.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:48:22 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: No Monica TAPES HERE
Message:
Stevei, you're either a bit dense, or you don't give a fuck. I'm assuming you went to events, etc. How do you think those events happened, by grace?

Who were the people who did their unpaid labour etc.

A lot of the people here sweated their lives out for years so people like you & me got to ride free with little dlm/elan vital/gm 'service'

Are you also unaware of all the fundraising drives, EV service calls for money etc.

Haven't you read the background material on the site?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 18:05:54 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: BE PROUD, stevei
Message:
You should be..... By your own admission, you've never devoted or decicated yourself (or even your money) to M. In the end, when you find out that M is a total fraud, you will have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to complain about. Good for you! Unfortunately, those here that DID totally dedicate themselves and their finances to M, DO (and continue to) have ALOT to complain about! They are in a diffrent league than you stevei.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 03:39:36 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: BIO
Message:
Mike...I paid my dues..not in monetary terms...Iwas an ashram secretary for few years...But I think we got to move on in our life....I would guess M's trip to me was 75% neg and 25% pos....

Question is ...does that mean we can go and make whatever statement we have about him and his sex life and his drinking habits...without real solid evidence...

OK LET ME TELL IT STRAIGHT...

THERE MUST BE SOME GUYS AND SOME GIRLS OUT THERE WHO WERE DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THIS...BUT THEY ARE TOO AFRAID TO COME OUT IN THE OPEN...

WOULD IT NOT BE GREAT IFONE DAY WE HAVE CLAUDIA'S BIO or Maraln's BIO....
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Date: Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 22:03:56 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: BIO
Message:
The drinking habits are not hearsay,Stevei. Quite a few of us have had first hand experience of it.However it's really neither here nor there compared with the long term effects on personal lives.Look,I understand where you're comiing from and for quite a few years after I left M, I still found it difficult to express anything negative about him.It took quite a few years to even understand how entangled I had become with the whole trip-how it had moulded and manipulated my personality ,beliefs and approach to life.
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 14:17:00 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: TELL ME YOUR EXPERIENCE
Message:
Would love to hear about your first hand experience of the drinking habits
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Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 16:58:11 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: TELL ME YOUR EXPERIENCE
Message:
Stevei,
I've already posted them on the net several times.I think roger downloaded them on to his drek site.I'm happy to email you with some of my experiences.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:00:05 (EST)
From: Mike Fronke
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Get A Life
Message:
Now that Maharaji has his own web site, you guys can send him all your stupid comments and can stop wasting your time posting your lame comments here! For goodness sake, don't you have anything better to do? GET A LIFE!
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:08:57 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: Got one, thanks!
Message:
MF: Why do you want us to stop our 'stupid and lame' commentary here? Does this website threaten your mental stability? If it's all untrue, why are there so many premie lurkers reading this stuff?

As for M, do you honestly believe that he will read anything sent to him, personally? I you do, then you are in lala land. Why don't you ask him to respond to one of your letters and see how far you get. I did (for a very long time) and got absolutely no where. Me thinks that he doesn't give a hoot about me, whatsoever. What do you say?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:16:13 (EST)
From: Mike Fronke
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Got one, thanks!
Message:
Well I guess badmouthing your former Master is having a life but to me, you're just wasting your time. Tell me, Mike, what did you pay for Knowledge from Maharaji? I didn't pay anything and the Knowledge was incredible. Peaceful and fulfilling. So if you think that he owes you something more, that's just too bad. He doesn't need to respond to you or me or anyone else. It's a gift! You didn't like it, so WALK! Why must you continue to post your bitter diatribes against him? It's baffling to me, but if that's how you get fullfilled then nobody's going to stop you. But what an incredible waste of time.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:34:33 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: Got one, thanks!
Message:
Mike F., I love Knowledge, too, and agree that it was/is an incredible gift. Maharaji is my Master, too but I have always had some unanswered questions. That doesn't mean I'm not extremely grateful for his gift to me. It would be stupid for anyone to trust blindly. I do feel somewhat guilty and maybe a little paranoid for questioning some things, but it's not going to stop me from doing so.

My impression is that if this site bugs you so bad you must have some issues that you're not admitting to yourself. It's those things that were struggling with that we're most sensitive about. I can't say I know you, but this is just my impression as a psychotherapist who's also a premie.

If this site bugs you so bad, just don't come here. To quote our Master and his Master 'If you like it fine, if you don't like it, fine.'
In other words, if you don't like it, go elsewhere.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:46:45 (EST)
From: Mike Fronke
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Got one, thanks!
Message:
This site doesn't really bug me, Denise. As a matter of fact, a lot of people probably investigate Knowledge as a result of this site. They see the things that are said and want to check into it for themselves. The Truth-seekers of this world will always go beyond the concepts and ideas to the core of the matter. Maharaji has done some amazing things in the world and I want everyone to know about it. If some people have a bad taste in their mouths and want to badmouth him, I feel sorry for them, but by all means I want them to continue to express themselves. Although they themselves are wasting their precious time by venting their anger and frustration, others may be inspired to find Truth for themselves so keep on trucking, if that's what turns you on.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:53:06 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: right arm!
Message:
Yes, by all means, Mike F. tell all the truth seeking aspirants you know about this sight. You'll be doing them a great service.

You are one clever premie, btw.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:00:36 (EST)
From: Mike Fronke
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Dumb Brain!
Message:
Oh, I wouldn't advise a Truth-seeker to come to this site, Gerry! There is way to much confusion, doubt and anger here. I would advise him to go to a site with class, clarity, and love. Somewhere where Knowledge and Truth is discussed and cherished. But not here!
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:07:49 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: Dumb Brain!
Message:
Mike,

I wouldn't say there was confusion or doubt here about the topic of the conversation here, that being the divine prem rawatt. Yes, some are angry. Don't you think there is some validity for this? Have you read the journey section where people tell their experiences with K? How about the rest of the site? Read it?

Care to tell us a little about yourself, like when, and how, and why you became involved?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 14:26:25 (EST)
From: Mike Fronke
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: May 2, 1982
Message:
I received Knowledge May 2, 1982. I saw light, heard music, felt Holy Name and it has just gotten better ever since. I've listened to Maharaji thousands of times since then. What he has imparted to me over the years has been priceless. No ordinary 'guru' could have done what he has done for me. The inspiration and love that I've felt and continue to feel can not be described. There is no doubt that He is the Master of the time and I for one will be there whenever I can to listen to him. I feel sorry for those who don't have that urge anymore.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 23:22:20 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: You experience a buzz you can'
Message:
t explain, and it's all him? Are you sure?
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Date: Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 00:01:45 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: May 2, 1982
Message:
Mike,

Fair enough. How do you feel about the thousands of other folks who enjoy life, have deep spiritual experiences and are, in general, just really great people without Maharaji?

Life is so much simpler and sane without having to worry about all this stuff. Give yourself a break. It really doesn't matter in the end, and meanwhile, you've subjected yourself to a whole lot of needless baggage (luggare?) you don't really need. Save your money for your old age. Spend time with your kids instead of the cult.
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Date: Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 14:56:58 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: Truth
Message:
So to you does 'truth' only mean happy, blissful times, or does 'truth' also mean talking about the not-so-happy junk that is part of the human condition? Like bobby telling us about his experiences with cancer, is that not relevant because it's not always blissful ? Or others talking about being molested by initiators--is that not truth? Is bliss MORE truthful than other human experiences?

'Truth is the consciousness of bliss' --don't come telling me that when I'm trying to push out a baby, help a friend die, write a book, or even work up the energy to work out at the gym. I'll just look you in the eye and say 'You! Off my planet'
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:52:49 (EST)
From: ex-mug
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: Got one, thanks!
Message:
Mike, what exactly has Maharaj Ji done that is so amazing for this world, apart from make himself extremely wealthy at his followers' expenses? Please enlighten me.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:36:52 (EST)
From: AE
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: We gave Maharaji a gift
Message:
No gift was ever given in any knowledge session. Just four meditation techniques which Maharaji hijacked from other swarmis and gurus and which can be found in books, anyway. But we all gave Maharaji plenty of gifts.

Please read The truth about Maharaji if you want to know what I'm talking about here. You are merely parroting what Maharaji says but no gift was ever given by Maharaji to any premie. It was all the other way round, I'm afraid. If a person gets something out of meditation then it's because they did it themsleves because Maharaji definitely has no say in it. But in actual fact, Maharaji is responsible for creating a lot of suffering to the people he arrogantly called his premies.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:51:38 (EST)
From: Mike Fronke
Email: None
To: AE
Subject: We gave Maharaji a gift
Message:
So, AE, you gave to him but he never gave to you? Well if that's how you feel, why don't you just don't practice anymore? Oh, you probably don't practice now anyway, do you? What a small, bitter man you must be! Well I won't waste my time with people who don't want the Truth, and I suggest you do the same! BYE-BYE!
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:52:12 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: Waste of time?
Message:
MF: I think not! A waste of time, according to whom? You? M DOES owe me something. Yes, I paid for K... I paid with the most precious thing that I have, MY life; something that I can't get back after it's been spent. I 'wasted' my time chasing and devoting myself to a fraud! He is NOT the Lord, he is NOT even a good meditation teacher nor a humanitarian leader. Exactly what is he supposed to be? He doesn't even seem to know, so why should you (or I)?

BTW, being at peace 'within' is a waste unless there is peace 'without.' This is an issue that M has yet to address, in case you haven't noticed. He said that he would feed all.....ahhh, never mind, I've said it all before and you won't really read it anyway. Go on and press your eyeballs; you'll be all peaceful and better.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:09:17 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Waste of time?
Message:
I can't put my finger on it, but something about Mr. Fronke's words is sooooooooooo familiar. Did you notice that, Mike? I get a kinda deja-vu about him. Especially that comment where he says, 'Just walk!' And it's so insightful too. Walking is good for your health as well.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:20:51 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Waste of time?
Message:
Run: Yes, there is a familiarity to it.... I like to call it Deja VIEWS.... ;-)
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:11:02 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Why so concerned?
Message:
Why are you concerned about how I spend my time? I think your in here fronting for the Guru. Haven't you read the posts on programmed premie robots? Actually many of the people here are concerned enough to continue this forum, offering a choice for those with programmed premie robot syndrome. It is a serious life threatening illness which I am sure you have observed. If you do not want treatment move aside so it can be made available to others.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:16:50 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: Hey Zack
Message:
Zac: Mike and MikeF are two different people. I'm Mike (the plain jane Mike)..... I'm the 'ex', Mike F is the premie.... he he he :-)
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:28:34 (EST)
From: ZAC
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Hey Zack
Message:
Sorry Mike, I'm doing this at work with a phone on one ear. You see I'm not wasting any time. hehehe
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:49:41 (EST)
From: ex-mug
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: Got one, thanks!
Message:
When did you get knowledge, Mike?
Were you around in the 1970's/80's? If you were, then how do you reconcile Maharaj Ji's message of that time with his current lame
presentation - The 'Lord of the Universe' of the 70's to his non-descript 1999 persona?
And what is this 'Get a Life' nonsense you talk about?
This is what Maharaj ji said awhile ago about people who use the
internet. So,now M is using the net why don't you tell him to 'get a life'?
Actually, why don't you tell yourself to get a life (you used the net to get here - pot calling the kettle black or what)
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 23:14:27 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: It's to try to prevent more du
Message:
mbshits like you from falling for this!
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 18:02:07 (EST)
From: Fronke if you love
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: maharjus!
Message:
What did you see inside mike fronke?
what have you heard inside mike fronke?
what have you tasted inside mike fronke?

How aoften do you feel your breath mike fronke?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 14:18:50 (EST)
From: Mike Fronke
Email: None
To: Fronke if you love
Subject: maharjus!
Message:
Every day, pal, by His Grace! By the way, why don't you guys use your real names? I don't mind using mine, but then I have nothing to hide.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 18:19:55 (EST)
From: bill burke
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: maharjus!
Message:
I have posted my name plenty and so have others.
For variety people here use nicknames after a while
or some post thier names a couple times and then dont bother
and use initials.

You may post your name, but you didnt answer the questions!
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:30:33 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Does I Make You Horny?
Message:
I hate to be unladylike and all, but I have a question. I sometimes found that doing the third technique (holy name) made me really horny. I would have to stop the meditation and go find my husband or vibrator until satisfied before I could go back and do nectar, if it got done that time. Needless to say, my husband likes when I meditate!

I'm serious about this. Has anyone else experienced this? Should I even take it seriously from men who are always horny anyway?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:33:38 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Does It Make You Horny?
Message:
Sorry, Freudian slip! Now what are y'all going to think about me?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:41:09 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Does It Make You Horny?
Message:
Hi Denise,

I think you're hilarious! But seriously, Patty would say the same thing when we were using these ''hemi-synch'' meditation tapes. I got nothing out of them myself (as usual), so I quit using them. But I strongly recommended she continue on her, ah, ahem, 'spiritual quest.'
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:44:55 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Does It Make You Horny?
Message:
What on earth is a 'hemi-synch' meditation tape?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 10:45:56 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Denise (and Brian)
Subject: Does It Make You Horny?
Message:
These are audio tapes first developed by the Monroe Institute (Robert Monroe of OBE fame.) They are composed of overlays of sound which work to get the brain to produce wave frequencies in the alpha, theta and delta ranges equally or symmetrically on both sides of the brain.

EEG studies of long time meditators (I believe Zen monks were studied) showed a tendency toward great brain hemisphere symmetry (sp) relative to the number of years they person has meditated. The idea is to ''entrain'' the brain to greater hemi-synch. The use of these tapes is supposed to greatly speed up the process. Don't ask me to what end.

The Monroe Institute has a website which explains it in greater detail. I got my tapes from Synchronicity.org, which, embarrassingly enough, turned out to be a guru cult started by a follower of that child molester, Muktananda. In my defense, however, I bought the tapes through a magazine ad for ''high tech'' meditation, before I saw the website.

Needless to say, this guy stole the technology, tried to claim he invented it and peddles it as a way to ''God-realization,'' with him as the Master whose ''grace'' is necessary to completely ''get there.'' Sound familiar?

Cryptic PS to Brian: Yes, Webmasterji, it makes me very happy. I haven't deserved many ''gold stars'' lately, have I?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 10:39:23 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Does I Make You Horny?
Message:
Yes, yes yes! But for me it's slightly different. If I get into meditation on the third technique (breath) then within a few hours or sometimes about 15 minutes later, I feel a powerful increase in my labido. This seems to be a natural side effect to meditation.

I once had a girlfriend back in the eighties who became aware of this in me and if she knew I'd been doing some meditation she would get all pleased because she knew what was going to happen fairly soon!
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 10:56:50 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Sir David, Denise
Subject: Does I Make You Horny?
Message:
Now we have the final proof that Prem Pal meditates at least on the third technique. It makes him horny too...
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 11:40:48 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Does It Make You Horny?
Message:
Ok, so I'm not the only one. Well, isn't this a good reason to resume propagation? Benefits for everyone involved!
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 11:43:09 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Lurid details within, beware
Message:
No wonder M does not recommend constant meditation during the day anymore!
See, in the old days we had to constantly meditate. And yeah, it used to have the same effect on me. I'd get incredibly horny wherever I happened to be. And women would sense the mood I was in and they'd just get so aggresive. I mean, like all day long I was having to fight them off. I remember in particular the problem I had with elevators. For some reason the ambiance of an elevator is very conduicive for me to remember my breath. So whenever I was on an elevator with just one other woman I had to be really careful. One time I just could not help it, I just found myself going inside and so this woman jammed on the STOP button and then threw me to the floor and forced me to break my vows of celibacy. It was really bad!

But seriously, doing nectar has a very similar effect on me. I just get all this desire created in me and the nectar does not 'quite' fulfill it, ya know? I mean, it just leaves me wanting something, I don't know what? Sex? Love? Truth? What?
What the hell IS the meaning of life anyway?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 11:48:19 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: John
Subject: Lurid details within, beware
Message:
I'm glad I never had to take a vow of celibacy. This problem doesn't seem like one I could address to M in a question/answer session they used to have in Miami festivals.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:32:20 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Denise my dear
Message:
Its got something to do with raising the Kundilini my dear...pitty you are married...would have loved to meditate with you...
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:37:17 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: Denise my dear
Message:
Yes, and if you only knew what I looked like! Those attorneys are pretty picky about who they marry, right JW?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 15:11:06 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Attorney....Oh God
Message:
You dont mean u married into the Firm....of what's his name from Devil's Advocate.....
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:28:55 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: Does I Make You Horny?
Message:
Yes,yes, & YES.

But only when I did formal all four technique sessions, or when practicing one technique and the others would start up by themselves.

And not just horny, but quite often VERY horny.

So anytime you're in merrie old England and you fancy someone to meditate with, well, ham's the name.

On a serious side, if this doesn't show the biological/bio-chemical nature of meditation I don't know what would.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:50:05 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Does It make you Barmy?
Message:
no wonder we were all going mad in those damned ashrams. Sometimes I felt overpowering sensuality and there was nowhere to express or fulfil it.

Up in Stoke ashram our housemother was a mother earth type and she did used to hold my hand sometimes. That was the peak of my sexual fulfilment, that and occassionally sitting next to a sister with our knees touching.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:35:10 (EST)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: How sweet (nt)
Message:
gjodjojk
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 01:46:49 (EST)
From: Roger Drek
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: New Dreky idea - press officer
Message:
Not that I've got enough to do with working on one project and two other Drek projects on hold, training for next fall's pro football as a walk-on, and my busy travel schedule involving my philanthropy hobby, but I got this idea while responding to 'cp' on the Maharaji Website thread.

Nor will I ever miss an opportunity for a shameless plug for the House of Drek:
click here for Roger's House of Drek
for way off topic stuff
Including the Chronicles of the Red Nighty


cp said: It is the most efficient and the most widespread- but there are huge numbers that could be reached if some of what goes on here is broadcast by other media channels.

I agree with many of your points, cp, but the reality is that getting a message out through the traditional printed is much more expensive per customer (what is the marketing term?) You have to consider that mass publications like Radio and Television, while having huge impact, are difficult to interest in our issue except for every so often like after Heaven's Gate or a Jim Jones' Koolaid Bon Voyage party.

What I would propose is that we should have a press officer to do just that the next time some cult goes bonkers and makes the big time news. Perhaps a mass email campaign to the major news organizations should be readied.

If any of the better writers would like to come up with a standard letter I could handle the mass emailing at the appropriate time. Certainly, with the Millennium Madness coming upon us there may be a few more little incidents like the recent Israel Second Coming incident with the Denver based Christian cult.

Of course, I'm sounding like a vulture, but one day I intend to build myself a Zanadu, a San Simeon, if you will, perhaps in some respectable neighborhood in the hills of Malibu or something.

Roger 'Rosebud' Drek
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 04:14:10 (EST)
From: AE
Email: None
To: Roger Drek
Subject: New Dreky idea - press officer
Message:
Those are good ideas, Mr Drek and there's many amongst us who can try their hand at a standard email letter.

Your post gave me another idea which I can and WILL do in my country. Quite simple this is - place an advert in a national publication, advertising this web site and also mine, of course (and yours too!) Now I can think of quite a few satirical mags here that would only be too pleased to carry a display ad offering more information about certain guru figures. And it won't cost an arm and a leg either.

Yes, I'll get that done by next month. Who knows, I even think that a certain satirical mag I read, may even print one or two articles on the aging boy god.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 05:27:00 (EST)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Mr Drek
Subject: press officer idea
Message:
Yup-- It must be said that I make the plug for the no/low tech humans because I think I am one at heart.

to take a tangent off the topic- life IS busy. This forum is the tea break, and it has a life of its own.

Round these parts we have a motto. SIMPLIFY
As far as media coverage goes- there is another motto
SPEND NO MONEY ON ADVERTISING
If I put these two mottos together they equal what you said-a blanket emailing of an edited press releases to a few succinct ( how do you spell that ) tabloids.

I have a feeling that one or two leads to let them in on the purgings and they will be contacting the press officer for copy. Even stuff like 'EX lord followers purge on net' or 'Duelling web sites' or simply 'Followers raise a fuss to boy guru.-- WHERES OUR MONEY!'

It is probably important that we dont say he did this or that , but that his es-followers SAY he did this or that.
That leaves the press free to approach him to defend the claims. Then he or his people will put their own foot in it.

In my country- the AM radio stations insert wierd stories that they get on the net - the ones the regular news slots don't cover. They sure dont worry about libel or copyright or anything - quite wild.

I can offer to edit - but am totally freaked out and paranoid and all the other psycological words about giving out my email. Just clinical, you understand nothing personal about the great people on the forum.

(Nothing like a proper vulture).
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 00:48:28 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Roger Drek
Subject: New Dreky idea - press officer
Message:
Dunno, Drek old boy. Press and media relations are as much built around personal relationships as they are on information and information presentations.

It makes more sense to publicicize this site than to do mass emailing.

It also makes more sense to develop more specific types of single page or otherwise short sheets- which can be posted on the internet rather than massed mailed. Between this site and Jean Michel's most of the requisite info is available. There's your site (might appeal to the underground press- wait there is no such thing- well might appeal to somebody like that) and there's AE's little site.

I think locating media people tends to work one-on-one.

You could write a short, personable email to on-line journals that you like and include links. Try something like:

Dear ___:

Many of the ex-followers of Guru Maharaj-Ji have developed
websites which contain information about him which might be of interest to you. Maharaj-Ji is around, having shortened his name to Maharaji, and diminished his status from God to Master.

The ex-disciples have created websites in order to document the accounts of abusive, manipulative behavior which seems to be his
way of maintaining a lavish, opulent lifestyle.

The ex-premie.org site has a general overview and history of the movement which can bring you up to date. It also has an active forum with archives, full of eyewitness accounts and powerful testimony, as well as posted discussions which
heatedly debate the issues.

The -Jean-Michel site(iforgettheurl)- is a history of the movement, tracing it several generations back and lending a more complete context to a Westerner trying to understand the situation. My own site...

Maybe you could finish up from there- writing in the end, clarifying the url's and adding the links. When in doubt keep it short and sweet.

Of course, Drek, you'll probably scare everyone by including your site. Unless of course, you actually want to get Republicans. Wait, I want to keep Gerry!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 22:46:27 (EST)
From: The february 1999
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'keeping in touch' issue.
Message:
In case you are off the mailing list,

'the coming and going of this wind, the coming and going of this wind is my blessing to you' The lord guru maharaj ji.
(YOUR breath is his blessing to you)

'what knowledge has tought me, what life has taught me is that
changes will happen. In the middle of these changes there is
one voice that says know the unchangable' The ultimate ruler
guru prem rawart.
(unchangable = your breath)
(one voice - mr pure voice himself, the lord ratwat)

'without the master there would be no knowledge.
(The following is not typed wrong) Living provides the living
with the living interaction to make knowledge tangible,
to make knowledge real.' -Guru maharaj ji, the supremest lord
in person

'The elements of existance are inseparable from knowledge.
Thus existance is at hand. and you have it. It is important to
feel gratitude in this life, it is important ot rejoice in this life.'-the greatest magician prick rawat.

Oh you hate like your father
and you hate your mother
and you hate your brothers
and no one is good enough to be your friend
you love riches
and you love no one
and you lied to me
my fake lord to me
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:02:44 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: The february 1999
Subject: 'keeping in touch' issue.
Message:
Didn't get the issue yet, hope I haven't been dropped from the mailing list. I've only visited your site for about a week now and maybe y'all have caused me to be blackballed. Maybe reading your site is making me paranoid, but y'all sure are funny!!! It's worth reading if only for the entertainment value in itself.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 12:36:16 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: The february 1999
Subject: 'keeping in touch' issue.
Message:
'the coming and going of this wind, the coming and going of this wind is my blessing to you' The lord guru maharaj ji. (YOUR breath is his blessing to you)

Is this really a blessing? The coming and going of 'wind' is usually a fairly unpleasant experience.

Living provides the living with the living interaction to make knowledge tangible, to make knowledge real.' -

Clear as a bell.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 13:10:53 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: 'keeping in touch' issue.
Message:
Living provides the living with the living interaction to make knowledge tangible, to make knowledge real.'
Clear as a bell.

Yeah, but just think JW, this kind of bullshit won't be PROPAGATED anymore, it'll be DISSEMINATED.Living proof that m actually is evolving...and I'm feeling better already.
Seriously speaking, I think 'dissemination' has a better ring to it.The word 'propagation' was always linked with the word 'propaganda', at least in my own mind,and it would produce visions of that little prick Goebbels standing by Hitler's side.
With DISSEMINATION, I see instead, frolicking premies,joyously delivering samples of m's SEMEN wherever they go.
Who knows? Maybe m will restart the ashrams for the new millenium and call them DISSEMINARIES?
Man, isn't Phase 2 exciting!!
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 13:37:10 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Nimrod
Subject: 'keeping in touch' issue.
Message:
Hey Nim, very good. You should do PR for the Lord, ahem, I mean master, I mean, something other than a figurehead or leader.

I think he may be having some books ghost-written for him. I hope he doesn't write them, because writing and clarity are not his strong points. Some possible titles:

Maharaji: How I Evolved From Perfect to More Perfect

Dissemination of Understanding: How Life Interacts With Life's Interactions to Disseminate Knowledge More and More If You Have That Gratitude and Understanding

How Simple I Always Wanted It: But No One Would Let Me

Maharaji: How I Was Forced Against My Will To Be Worshipped, Have My Feet Kissed, And Be Treated Like A Figurehead And How I Was Powerless to Stop It, Despite Being All Powerful

Maharaji: How My Opulent Lifestyle, Mansions, Gold Toilets, Fleets of Luxury Cars and Yachts, Have Aided Me In Bringing Understanding To A World So Lost In Materialism

The Ashram Experiment: What Was I THINKING?

Maharaji: I Am What I Am And That's All That I Am, Which Changes Constantly Depending On My Whim At The Moment

How To Speak In A Repetitive, Boring Manner and Make People Think What You Are Saying Is Profound In Ten Easy Lessons

Knowledge: Love It Or Leave It, It's Up To You, But Watch Out For Those Vegetables And A Place Called Hell
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 13:49:08 (EST)
From: g's mom
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Don't miss JW's post above
Message:
It is an absolute crack up! loL lol lol
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 13:53:16 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: everybody
Subject: Don't miss JW's post above
Message:
Bravo!
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:43:07 (EST)
From: ham
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: 'keeping in touch' issue.
Message:
I'm gonna break my non-duplication policy on this one,

WICKED post,

inspired by the lord yet again!
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 19:46:53 (EST)
From: Nimrod
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: 'keeping in touch' issue.
Message:
Man JW! Too much!!I thought that was right on... a JW classic, for sure.

Thanks for the suggestion about helping m in the PR department, but I have the feeling JW, its YOU he really wants.He's just taking his time asking you back because...well,you know...he's been busy lately...evolving.

But if I were you JW, I wouldn't be so down on m's poetry.I think there's some potential for an audio tape, packaged as follows.

MAHARAJI
reading his own poems
with
bakground music provided by
TITUS, THE RESIDENCE BULLDOG
and the sound of his breaking wind...
just like his master.

Common JW, where are you going to find poetry like that! I mean,that'll beat Kabir any day.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 12:28:38 (EST)
From: Roger Drek
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: snagging that for Drek page!
Message:
JW, that's a keeper and going to the House of Drek under the Imagainary links!

click here to see it!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:44:19 (EST)
From: a nonny mouse
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hide it, quick...
Message:
Three guesses where this came from...

You may not copy, reproduce, imitate, alter, modify, publish, disseminate, distribute, transmit, transfer, create derivative works, post on any computer, 'frame,' or broadcast in any other media, or in any way exploit, any of the content of this Website, including the Website Materials, in whole or in part, through any medium now known or hereafter developed, without our or the copyright owner's express prior written and signed consent, except to the extent necessary for you to download one copy of the content of this Website, and either store that copy on your computer or print out that copy, provided that (i) you only use the copy for your own personal informational and non-commercial use, (ii) you keep the copyright notice attached to any materials you download, and (iii) you never reproduce, retransmit, republish, or redistribute the copy. You acknowledge that you do not acquire any ownership rights by downloading any of the content of this Website, including the Website Materials.

And for anyone interested in the little cookies that maharaji.com leaves scattered through your hard drive...

When you click on the acceptance button below, you will be automatically assigned a user ID number, which will be stored on your computer ('cookie'). Only one individual at a time may access the Website using your ID number. You are responsible for all actions taken on and submissions to this Website that are done using your ID number and any actions taken on or submissions to this Website that are done using your ID number will be deemed to have been done by you. You are responsible for the confidentiality and use of your ID number, and agree to notify us immediately if you become aware of (i) any loss or theft of your ID number, (ii) loss or theft of your computer, or (iii) any unauthorized use of your ID number.

Big Brother really is watching you very carefully indeed!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:52:43 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: a nonny mouse
Subject: Hide it, quick...
Message:
That's so funny!!! I mean that is the weirdest thing, they don't even do that much on shareware sites or FTP sites.

What the hell is he so afraid of? Most people never heard of him and could care less. Ex's are the only ones who may be curious enough to bother 'downloading' something, just for grins. Guess he wants it both ways, rich and worshipped but no pulbic attention from anyone other than those who are devoted. HA!! good luck M.

I've seen enough, I don't need to go. and I don't want his cookies near me, eeiiiiwwwwww
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:54:42 (EST)
From: douche
Email: None
To: a nonny mouse
Subject: Hide it, quick...
Message:
...and agree to notify us immediately if you become aware of (i) any loss or theft of your ID number, (ii) loss or theft of your computer, or (iii) any unauthorized use of your ID number.

Quck, quick... I need help REALLY REALLY URGENTLY.

Someone's stolen my ID number. It was here a minute ago, and now it's gone. I think the dog's taken it. He takes anything I leave lying around. But what am I to do?

It's been a really bad week and it's getting worse. Now I've angered the Lord of the Universe and it will surely mean another 48,000 lifetimes until I get to squeeze my eyeballs again and merge into his munificent being.

Maharaji... I'm really sorry. Will you forgive me? Can I get another one? PLEASE.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:18:37 (EST)
From: douche
Email: None
To: douche
Subject: Hide it, quick...
Message:
And he really does want it all ways...

DISCLAIMERS; NO WARRANTIES: THE INFORMATION AND WEBSITE MATERIALS ON THIS WEBSITE ARE PROVIDED 'AS IS' WITHOUT ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTY OF ANY KIND INCLUDING WARRANTIES OF ACCURACY, COMPLETENESS, MERCHANTABILITY, NONINFRINGEMENT OF INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY, OR FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT WILL WE ,OR ANY OF OUR AFFILIATES, BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (WHETHER DIRECT, INDIRECT, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL).

According to the site credits, this legal crap comes direct from the man himself. Somehow, I can't quite picture JC or Buddha writing this sort of shit. I have to say that it won't rank up there with the greats like the 'lilies of the field' sermon.

Maharaji goes on (and on and on)...

We have the right to change, delete, add to, or terminate the terms and conditions of this Agreement at any time. Those changes, deletions, additions, or termination shall become effective immediately upon posting thereof on this Website. To review this Agreement or any changes, deletions, additions or termination to this Agreement at any time, click on the hyperlinked word 'Terms' at the bottom of any page. Any use of this Website after the changes, deletions, additions or termination shall be deemed an acceptance thereof. We also have the right to change or discontinue any aspect or feature of the Website at any time. We reserve the right in our sole discretion to suspend or revoke your right to access the Website in the event we determine you have violated the terms of this Agreement.


Well that really makes me want to weep (or is it vomit?). It seems BigM is going to peer into his cookie records, discover who I am, and the close the door of everlasting nirvana on me. But hang on... I can still see the light. Nah, nah, nah nah nah... you sanctimonious slime ball.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 00:21:28 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: douche
Subject: Hide it, quick...
Message:
I'll get my link to the US intelligent community tommorrow from work for you all to go follow, even the CIA's security statement before you enter is less of a threat than this one - use a browser that puts cookies in a jar instead of the hd (lynx). If you end up at the CIA site go to the job opportunities -for some real creative writing skills read the job description for covert agent and the pay then take the leathercraftsperson job (pays double) see ya gotta go lurk :=)
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 02:37:23 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: douche
Subject: tattoo ID on your forehead!
Message:
You fool!

If you really read the legal term fine print you would have known that were required by international law to go to the nearest Elan Vital approved tattoo parlor to get your ID tattooed prominently on your forehead.

Until you come clean to EV and they issue you a new ID, I suggest that apply a proxy ID with a black magic marker on your forehead.

666
Mark of the Beast Cookie ID
Available Only At
WWW.MAHARAJI.ORG

Year 2000 Model
(TM) Copyright 1999-2000
Legal Terms On Embedded Chip

Valid at over 666 Vacuous Premie Affiliated Websites
Wear It With Pride On Your Slide through Hell!

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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:38:54 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: a nonny mouse
Subject: Copyright Law.
Message:
You may not copy, reproduce, imitate, alter, modify, publish, disseminate, distribute, transmit, transfer, create derivative works, post on any computer, 'frame,' or broadcast in any other media, or in any way exploit, any of the content of this Website, including the Website Materials, in whole or in part, through any medium now known or hereafter developed, without our or the copyright owner's express prior written and signed consent, except to the extent necessary for you to download one copy of the content of this Website, and either store that copy on your computer or print out that copy, provided that (i) you only use the copy for your own personal informational and non-commercial use, (ii) you keep the copyright notice attached to any materials you download, and (iii) you never reproduce, retransmit, republish, or redistribute the copy. You acknowledge that you do not acquire any ownership rights by downloading any of the content of this Website,including the Website Materials.

I'm no expert and maybe I know just enough to be dangerous, but this statement goes way beyond copyright law, which specifically allows for reprinting of material for fair comment and criticism. But I wonder, does pushing the 'agree' comment at the bottom of the page make this some kind of binding contract that can be more draconian than copyright law? I've asked an intellectual property lawyer in my firm to tell me, and I'll let everyone know what I find out.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 21:14:06 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Prem Pal Paranoiac
Message:
Anyone who has cheated the innocent for as long as he has undoubtedly has to be looking over his shoulder all of the time just wondering when one of his victims is going to wake up and come after him.

All of these terms and conditions provide quite an insight either into his own mind or into the mind of who ever did the leg work on the site in an effort to please 'him.'

It is laughable and ridiculous. Here he has stolen so much hope from so many and yet he makes so much of a show of protecting his stupid words and pictures. geesh!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 23:41:54 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: ben there
Subject: Yes, over the years, M has cer
Message:
tainly learned how to protect his money.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 01:36:29 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Copyright relationship
Message:
I guess this is only to add some exciting feature to the triangle.

The Master, Knowledge, the disciple, and court's fear!

What a beautiful love story! No strings attached!!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 23:37:57 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: a nonny mouse
Subject: Dear M, I fear my ID # is bein
Message:
g abused. You may want to address the issue, otherwise, your rabid nemesis may feel free to download and distribute ANYTHING THEY WANT OFF YOUR SITE!!!

Welcome to reality, the world, and the net...

Being sued by the lord- a possible chapter for the RN chronicles?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 01:33:04 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: a nonny mouse
Subject: New Quote for my site!
Message:
Thank you my Lord for that one!

'Quite a few people wanted to see me as a
figurehead. I didn't want to be one and I am not one. A few others saw me as a leader, and I didn't want to be one and I am not one. '

It will be the new moto for my 'Lord, Master & Supreme Lord' quout page in a few hours ....

Thank you so much again.

Will you sue me?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:33:23 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Here it is Prempal!
Message:
Now for everyone to read:

Is this true?

Will you explain us one day, in proper English, what you really mean?

Did you write your 'journey' yourself?

Did you say this yourself, or was it truly a tape recorder?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 16:26:27 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A most unfriendly place
Message:
And WHAT an unfriendly place is maharaji.org! I mean the horrible warning at the start nearly put me off but I was tempted to go in and have a look. And man, it's soooo cold and unfriendly in there, I just had a quick look round and then left.

No warmth there, I'm afraid. Just sterile graphics and what the hell is Maharaji worried about us pinching stuff off his web site. I mean it's really bland and you can get those kind of graphics off any good software.

And his speil is just the same old stuff. His site is boringsville. And sooo many lies about his past. No, I won't be going there too often. It has all the warmth of an outside toilet!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:42:58 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Sir David
Subject: A most unfriendly place
Message:
Dear Sir,
Well you and others have saved me a trip to cookie land! Not that I was interested anyway but now I've heard enough. Thanks for the review.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 22:46:44 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: A most unfriendly place
Message:
Maharaji.org is terrible, boring, sterile, vacuous, just like him. I was so offended by his revisionist history and those stupid terms, and the request for cookies everytime one changes pages; I swear, there were three requests for cookies everytime I clicked the 'next' button! He is a controlling little fart, and I am so disgusted with him and his idiotic fan club. I haven't been this angry about the little creep in years!!! I'm sorry, premies, but I have trouble believing that your are really being honest with yourselves if you still follow that little hitler.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:10:05 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: A most unfriendly place
Message:
Well I didnt find much to angry be about-I just found it incredibly boring and insipid.The stuff about living with both mother and step mother sounds a bit dysfunctional.The whole site reeks of M's 80s and 90s approach which seems to be,'Don't define me as the Lord-at least not publicly.But we all really know who I am,don't we premies?Nudge,nudge,wink,wink.'
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:53:01 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: A most unfriendly place
Message:
That's understandable anger, Mickey. Maharaji, by his web site has shown a complete contempt for his former devotees. Listen up you current premies - he's contemptuous of YOU too. If you ever get into difficulties, don't expect to get any help from the supreme Lord of love and highest manifestation of God's compassion and infinite bliss.

Maharaji gets no respect from me. And Maharaji; how do you sleep at night and how does it feel to be the most hated and reviled guru in the western world. You'd be well advised to shut up shop and go back to India. There may be some for whom mere words on a web page are not enough. But I think you're aware of that which is why you've stopped doing public programs. It seems that other people have much better memories than you. There's nothing for you here now, except grief. Get out while you can.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 15:47:37 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Amazing, Just Amazing
Message:
If you go over to the web site of the former Lord of the Universe, you will find that the 'Journey' section has changed, I believe, as a result of what BM is reading on this site. Do you think we may actually be having some form of communication with BM, albeit it stunted and strange? Since he has never answered the letters I sent to him, maybe this is a breakthrough from the stonewall of his silence regarding those who criticize him. Maybe there is a crack in the wall.

Yesterday, his web site said that he (Maharaji) had evolved. Anon and I had a couple of messages down below about what that meant, as it appeared to be a tacit admission that he was in need of improvement from what he used to be, that he wasn't and never had been 'perfect' in terms of his actions as 'perfect master' and 'the superior power in person.' Today, that statement is GONE from his site. Really. Now he replaced it by saying, in Nixon-like passive voice evasion:

'Changes happened; evolution was afoot and still is.' Huh?

Maybe he went a tad far and mistakenly said he needed to 'evolve.' Oh, no, can't say that, his ego won't let him, so he removed it. So now, it just kinda happened. Whom it happened to and what it was, is unknown. Maharaji, if Richard Nixon were alive, he would be proud of you, for such blantant evasion.

He has also added another statement, obviously directed to us disgrunted ex-premies that is equally astounding for its unmitigated gall:

When you do something right, there will always be those who criticize you; when you do something wrong, there will be no one around to stop you. Hello?

So, what the hell is this? Now Maharaji is apparently saying that he was criticized for doing the 'right' stuff, the poor victim that he is, and for all the 'wrong' stuff he did (again, unclear what that is, and still he won't say what the wrong stuff is, admit to it in any way, or take any responsbility whatsoever), well he can't help it because nobody stopped him. Is this how other people interpret this outrageously arrogant, or at least very infantile, statement? This is something children say. 'Well, he made me do it, or he didn't stop me!!' Geez.

So, when Maharaji sat up on thrones, wore crowns, had us kiss his feet, commanded us to never doubt, demanded 100% total devotion and SURRENDER, when he told us we would go to hell (Christmas, 1979, remember, Maharaji?) if we weren't devoted to him -- when he told us to move into his ashrams and be poor and celibate, when he told us that the only tie we had to our families was the one they gave us for Christmas, when he said that we didn't even have the right to look at him, when he did all that and more, which was obviously wrong because he doesn't say that anymore, it was just because the premies were too screwed up to stop him, and so it's all our own damn fault.

This statement brings new meaning to the word 'hutzpah!'

To Maharaji or whoever is reading this on his behalf:

Listen Maharaji, we would all love to dialogue with you. But maybe it would be possible to do it more directly. This ex-premie website and communication is just going to grow. You might as well accept it and the more you stonewall, the worse it is going to get. But if you would talk to us honestly, and really admit the things you seem to be sort of back-handedly saying in your website, well a lot of us would more than likely forget about it and move on and stop being a thorn in you side. Hey, most of us used to really love you. We really did. We actually would feel a little bit better if you actually had some integrity and honesty. It would make it a lot easier.

Just a little advice from one of your former devotees.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 16:05:34 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Amazing, Just Amazing
Message:
When you do something right, there will always be those who criticize you; when you do something wrong, there will be no one around to stop you.

Hi JW,
I took the above statement by maharaji to mean that, in general, good deeds get criticized while bad deeds can go unprevented. I think he was referring to the good deeds he does, in contrast to the bad deeds others do.

Of course, his statement that he isn't and never was a leader, is absurd.

It's ironic that I happen to be watching the video of the Oliver Stone movie 'Nixon' today. A friend had it so I took the opportunity to watch it. Talk about Grace. I couldn't help but think how much this guy was like maharaji.

It's hard to tell if the guy is deluded or lying, or some of both. His website stinks. He just doesn't have any soul. It's probably fitting, anyway.
Rick
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:47:58 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Amazing, Just Amazing
Message:
'When you do something right, there will always be those who criticize you; when you do something wrong, there will be no one around to stop you.'

I took the above statement by maharaji to mean that, in general, good deeds get criticized while bad deeds can go unprevented. I think he was referring to the good deeds he does, in contrast to the bad deeds others do.

Really? Then his English is really fucked up. To have that interpretation, 'you' would refer to him in one place in the sentence, and to others in the second place. That doesn't make any sense, but then most of what he says doesn't, I mean if you actually look at it without the glassy-eyed premie perspective.

As to whether he's deluded or lying or both, I vote for both.

I saw the Nixon movie when it was in the theaters. Anthony Hopkins was great in that role. It's also interesting to see, now that the courts are requiring that more of his tapes be released, what an absolute bigot Nixon was, how petty he was, and that he was even more irrationally paranoid than Hopkins played him in the movie.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:27:17 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Amazing, Just Amazing
Message:
Really? Then his English is really fucked up. To have that interpretation, 'you' would refer to him in one place in the sentence, and to others in the second place. That doesn't make any sense, but then most of what he says doesn't, I mean if you actually look at it without the glassy-eyed premie perspective.

I think in this case it's a quirk of the English language because it's a 'saying', like 'When you laugh the whole world laughs with you, but when you cry, you cry alone'. Technically it refers to another person but it can be said in reference to oneself. The saying stays the same, regardless of who it refers to. If part of a saying refers to oneself and part to another person, you don't adjust the saying; it's just implied in the context of what's being said. Maybe I'm incorrect in my speculation, but I don't think Tubby thinks he made any substantial mistakes in his life. And he's always thought any criticism directed at him was just projection.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:46:03 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Amazing, Just Amazing
Message:
I think he is trying to say that when you do something right(mj giving knowledge to the world) people(ex-premie.org) critisize you. But when you do something wrong(Doubt, listen to mind, renounce mj, leave cult, post to ex-premie.org, etc.) there is no one there to stop you.
His new line seems to be, 'If you don't like it walk, and don't bother trying to crawl back either!', instead of the old 'The door is always open' routine.
Increasing the fear tactics just seems like his typical gestapo approach to dealing with things.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:46:29 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Amazing, Just Amazing
Message:
Not to get too technical, but:

I think in this case it's a quirk of the English language because it's a 'saying', like'When you laugh the whole world laughs with you, but when you cry, you cry alone'.

Yeah, but in that statement 'you' can refer to the same person, just at different times, both the speaker and anyone else. That's what I thought Maharaji was saying originally, but it's probably just that he's incoherent.

I always thought he maintained everything he did was perfect as well, that's why the statement that he has 'evolved' which to me means 'improved,' along with this statement, made me think he was tacitly admitting he wasn't perfect. But you're probably right; he still thinks he's perfect.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:54:25 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Amazing, Just Amazing
Message:
Well I can picture the Lard saying that methods of spreading knowledge evolve but that perfection that is within inside stays constant, perfect, beautiful. Did he say before that he had evolved or that the process of spreading knowledge had evolved?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:57:38 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Amazing, Just Amazing
Message:
Yes, he said he had evolved. In fact, I discovered it's still on the site, it's in the 'Preface' section and not the 'Journey' section.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:08:05 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Amazing, Just Amazing
Message:
Well he did say that Guru Maharaj Ji had merged and become one with the Knowledge, which was perfect. That wouldn't leave much room for evolution. Maybe it's like when Clinton said Define 'is'.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:14:49 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Amazing, Just Amazing
Message:
Maybe it's like when Clinton said Define 'is'.

Unlike Clinton, who at least has to be credited with some brains, with Maharji, I think it's just rank stupidity. He can say entirely contradictory things and get away with it because premies will accept anything he says without question, or if they do question it, they won't say they do. It really is the emperors' new clothes situation. He speaks buck-naked nonsense and nobody around him has the nerve to point it out.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:36:07 (EST)
From: ben there
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: He speaks nonesense
Message:
He speaks buck-naked nonsense and nobody around him has the nerve to point it out.

This is the whole patudty
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 02:34:20 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Amazing, Just Amazing
Message:
There's a part in satguruhascum where he says 'I'm in the infinite state....'. I think it was Montrose 1972.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 23:22:59 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Amazing, Just Amazing
Message:
Maybe M was thinking of this quote:

When you do something right, no one remembers, when you do something wrong, no one forgets.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 00:08:55 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: Amazing, Just Amazing
Message:
Yes, that's it dv. He's only been here three decades. He'll catch on soon.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 12:38:12 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: Amazing, Just Amazing
Message:
You're right, you know, that's probably what he meant. But he didn't say that did he? He made up something different which really makes no sense.
Because the fact is if I do something wrong, there's lots of people to jump all over me for doing it. And in fact, if I do something right, there's people who recognize it.

He really needs to go back to school and get an education. I think it would really help him in so many ways. Besides teaching him how to speak and talk intelligently, it would teach him some humility. He'd realize that people have actually acomplished a helluva lot without the help of 'perfect masters'.

Hey, M, you're never too old to learn!
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:40:38 (EST)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Maharaji
Subject: Stupid, just stupid
Message:
Bullshit Maharaji, read the Mischler interview on this site. He tried to stop you and resigned rather than be an accomplice.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 18:27:53 (EST)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: The Lotus Foot
Message:
JW:

It ought to be perfectly clear that the statement 'evolution was afoot,' intends to personify the principle of evolution; which is, of course, perfectly personified in our Lord. Evolution was, and is, a foot. He doesn't say which foot, so my guess is it's the left. The Lotus peninsula is, of course, only an inch or so in full extension.

-Scott
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:48:40 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Proof of Techniques of K
Message:
Happy's posting and Jean-Michele's web site prove beyond doubt to Anyone who knows anything about Yoga ...and Patanjli's system...that these technqiques that M talk about are very ancient and work..they have been practiced for 1000's of years...

This we have to establish as fact...and that is why they work for me...probably nothing to do with M...but the technqiues are Fully valid....

I think this is really important to establish as Apriori that the 4Ks are cool...
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:53:49 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: Proof of Techniques of K
Message:
Yes, yes, yes!
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 13:56:54 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: Proof of Techniques of K
Message:
Would you explain what you mean when you say the techniques of K ''work?''

They never did anything for me and there are lots of people who experienced nothing using them.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:14:04 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Proof of Techniques of K
Message:
I'm curious about this too. It seems like the techniques work for some and not others. Is it brain chemistry? Is it a placebo effect? I don't think the techniques work for mj either, it seems like you need a certain kind of innocence for them to do anything for you.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:48:24 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Proof of Techniques of K
Message:
Would you explain what you mean when you say the techniques of K ''work?''

Baffling, isn't it? I haven't the slightest idea what this means, either. I'm glad I'm not the only one. Maybe we're just too much into our minds, Gerry.

Surrender. (Whatever that means)
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 15:15:52 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: 4K Then and Now
Message:
OK Here goes...but you know we will fall into Jim's trap that it can all be explained by Bio feedback or Brain Feedback loops or the Modren Psychoanalysis bibles..

OK WHAT WORKS FOR ME:

I received K many years ago....1972 to be precise...

I imediatly went into retreat for 3months practicing K...

I guess I practiced K intensely for 10 years....after that I did not put much effort...

1. Light Meditation: With the Light Meditation..I get the usual Halo in the head...the stars that type of thing...never seen any person or persons...just white Light....I think if you read all the Litreture on NDE (Near Deat Experience...Mostly its about going through tunnels of Light...)

2. Music...I hear precisely what is described in Jean Michal's Web Site....Bells drums, like constant sound of organs...I still hear this today without much effort....and when I get really into a deep meditation...the nearest thing to describe it is a Cosmic Orgasim..

3. Nectar...I get reall intoxication by doing the Nectar technique...

4. The Word..When I go into deep meditation...this pulsating rythim inside just take over..it goes beyond the sound...shear power and energy takes your whole body over...amazing power...

I can get about 30 to 50% of this experience any time today without much effort...

HAPPY ...I think these techniques have been around for more than a 1000 years...Patanjali's Treatise on Yoga...is pretty old...
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 15:37:47 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: Tunnels of light
Message:
...Mostly its about going through tunnels of Light...)

Stevei,

Did you ever find yourself going through these tunnels of light before you received Knowledge? Really, what's the difference between closing your eyes before you received Knowledge and after. Just because you're given a point of reference to meditate on (the forehead, between the eyebrows) shouldn't manifest any phenomena that wasn't there before. It doesn't make sense that you would suddenly start seeing light where, before, you didn't. Unless you're pressing on your eyeballs to generate the light. Is that what you are doing?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 15:47:03 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Full of Life
Message:
There are two types of light...the type which is generated by putting pressure on the eyeballs...and that is nerve light...itlooks blurred , scattered and no coherence...then there is the other one...which is the more subtle..it changes colours...move, green, bright yellow...and the shapes are not the same as nerve light...the second type has also an attraction effect...it attracts you into it...its like soft and loving...and glowing...full of life...
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 16:24:14 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: Full of Life
Message:
Stevei,

This light which is 'Full of Life', you only started seeing it when you began meditating? You were unaware of it before you received Knowledge? The reason I ask is because I've never seen anything different since I've received Knowledge that I wasn't seeing before I received it.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 16:47:09 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Light without K
Message:
Ah...ok...I see what you ask...No..I did not see anything before I received knowledge...But I know a number of people who have had experiences of this light without even receiving knowledge or knowing what knowledge is.....The experience of Light is quite common to some people...some kids also experience it when they are young...and the NDEs which I mentioned before...
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:03:48 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: Light without K
Message:
Stevei,

Interesting. I'm at a loss how such a magical transformation has occurred in some peoples' consciousness since receiving Knowledge. There was a time when I found such a transformation desirable. In fact, it was for this transformation that I received Knowledge. Now, you may or may not be surprised, I'm glad no such transformation ever occurred. I no longer feel a need for it.

It might perplex some people why I practiced Knowledge (on and off) for 18 years if it never did anything for me. Well, I believed in Maharaji for all those years that with just 'a little more effort...'. Now I no longer believe that. I feel better since I don't.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:17:21 (EST)
From: Red
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Full of something
Message:
Jerry,
are you saying that because you haven't experienced something,therefore it does'nt exist?If you are, I would suggest that puts you on very shaky ground.
Red
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:34:34 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Red
Subject: Full of something
Message:
Actually, Red, you're the one who's on shaky ground for trying to read into my post. How do you know what I'm suggesting? You don't. I was trying to ascertain if the light that Stevei sees in meditation is something that he didn't see before he received Knowledge. He assures me that seeing this light is something that is the result of receiving Knowledge. I'm not saying that he isn't seeing this light. He's apparently having an experience which I myself am not having. I don't know why. Maybe its magic.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:40:42 (EST)
From: Red
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Maybe it's tragic
Message:
Jerry,are you sure your being honest with me?Me thinks not.Of course it's magic.There's magic everywhere.Just because you don't see it does'nt mean it's not there.Do you have magic in your life Jerry?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:20:58 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Red
Subject: Abracadabra
Message:
Red,

If I don't see it, it doesn't do me much good does it? Do I have magic in my life? Yeah, I guess. Every once in awhile I catch Sigfried and Roy on the tonight show.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:29:27 (EST)
From: Red
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Abracadabra
Message:
Well man,I can't argue with that.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 16:19:26 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Jerry
Subject: Abracadabra
Message:
Dear Jerry,
I didn't imagine you to be a Tonight Show fan, I am disillusioned. :( The Tonight Show just ain't the same without Johnny! :) Now David Letterman is the bomb!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 15:11:31 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Abracadabra
Message:
Robyn,

David Letterman blows, but Jay Leno's pretty cool. I only watch the Tonight Show on Friday nights or holidays. I'm in bed by 11 any other night. I tire easy in my old age :)
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 16:29:02 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Red
Subject: Full of something
Message:
Red: Are you saying that because YOU have experienced something, it DOES exist? If so, YOU are on VERY shaky ground. Alot of people 'see' things and 'experience' things that are NOT real. They are called hallucinations (or illusions, if you will). Independent, objective (not subjective) verification is the only sure way YOU are on the right track. If that which you swear you are experiencing is not OBJECTIVELY verifiable, then you are truely on shaky ground.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:10:38 (EST)
From: Red
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Full of something
Message:
Mike:'Independent,objective,(not subjective)verifaction';that's quite a mouthful Mike.OK,just say 2 people are sitting in a beautiful place(or in a city backyard looking at a tree) and one is filled with a sence of wonder,conectedness and joy,while the other says it's just a tree,made of wood,bark,leaves and what not, and that what the first person is experiencing can not be explained using scientific approaches and therefore it's an illusion.I know who I'de think was on shaky ground Mike.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:42:55 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Red
Subject: Full of something
Message:
Red: Yup, the shaky ground belongs to the guy that 'thinks' he is in a 'beautiful' place. A tree is independently verifiable (e.g. it's REAL). A 'beautiful place' isn't necessarily so. Now, realize that you are mixing apples and oranges here because you are comparing a 'physical' place with K. A physical place is independently verifiable as 'existing,' no matter how 'beautiful' it is. The problem with K is this: you can't objectively verify that any such place exists.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 18:25:52 (EST)
From: Red
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Full of something
Message:
Mike:This has'nt got anything to do with K,or maybe it has and lots of other things too,but that is not what I meant.Have'nt you ever been in a beautiful place,watched a sunset or something,and experienced something that was bigger than you ,bigger than logic?I suppose because we are just different,but I find the scientific approach to life to be dull,grey and soulless.I think we can safely assume that neither of us is in possession of some 'Ultimate truth',so why not fill your life with colour and joy?
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 19:07:48 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Red
Subject: Decent question, Red
Message:
Red: I don't know why people think that science is 'dull and grey.' That has always bothered the heck out of me. Maybe, it's in the way it's presented.

Knowing 'how' something works makes it all-the-more beautiful and precious to me. When I look at the orion nebula and realize that stars are being born, right NOW!....WOW! Protoplanetary systems exist there, too. It's WONDERFUL! Knowing how it all works is the icing on the cake. Discovering where it all came from is 'our' quest. Some look at the flower and say it's beautiful, but they have no idea how really beautiful it is. To see inside the flower and realize the 'miracle' of its functioning... to REALLY SEE the miracle and understand the miracle.... THAT is beauty, that is joy, that is 'wonder.' Those that 'just look' at the flower are really missing the show (IMHO). I don't see science as something dead.... quite the opposite: If it weren't for science, we would have no idea what was causing the ozone layer to deplete. In fact, without science we wouldn't even know that the ozone layer was depleting! That's just ONE example out of many, many more. Ecology is a science that must be manned by those with the curiosity and critical thinking required to fulfill the task (a damned important one, at that!)

Well, now you know 'my' take on the science issue. That's why I spent my time getting my degree in the science that I chose. I've never once regretted getting that degree, either.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 01:18:54 (EST)
From: Red
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Decent question, Red
Message:
Mike:You make science sound very exciting.I once heard 2 mathematicians talking and it was truly insperational.Their world was full of mystery and magic,it was almost like getting lost in a fairy tale.It sounds as though you have chosen a worthwhile profession.About the ozone layer though;a cynic might argue that if it were not for science we would'nt have a hole in the ozone layer in the first place.
I believe that there are some things that science will never be able to understand or measure.For instance,if I am meditating or just blissing out on a dew drop or what ever and I try to analyse what is happening,then I am instantly separated from it ,yet that experience brings brings meaning and light into so many lives.Science may help us to understand the world a little better but I doubt that it will ever show us the meaning of life which I suspect is as individual as a snowflake.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 18:52:05 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Red
Subject: Meaning of my life
Message:
Red: I don't believe that there is a 'universal meaning' to life. I think life's meaning is as individual as the person beholding it. In all seriousness, the 'meaning' in my life has nothing to do with sitting around and feeling blissed-out. It just isn't in the 'meaningful' category to me.

To me, the meaning of life is curiosity, discovery and the passing of the acquired knowledge on to my descendent(s). To me, the meaning of life is to take care of this planet, so that my descendents have a decent place to live and grow. To me, the meaning of life is to love (and care for) my wife and my kids while I'm here. That's pretty much it! It's more than enough to fulfill my life's purpose (IMHO).
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 19:15:08 (EST)
From: Red
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Meaning of my life 2
Message:
Mike:I agree with you and at times like this I'm reminded of an ants nest or bee hive,where everybody has specific tasks that contribute to the wellbeing of the nest or hive.We need our dreamers and doers and we all have something we could shine at, and in a more natural society that's what we would be doing in our daily lives. For me meditation and connecting to the earth brings meaning(of the kind I yearn)and colour into my life without which there would be no point.
Red
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 21:14:57 (EST)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: verifiability
Message:
Mike:

If that which you swear you are experiencing is not OBJECTIVELY verifiable, then you are truely on shaky ground.

Strictly speaking, this is not necessarily the case. It's pretty hard to get complete objectivity about everything that's true. So some things must be true even though they aren't verifiable (Godel). For one thing, you can't even verify the verifiability postulate. That's what clobbered the logical positivists and led to Popper's now famous alternative, the falsifiability postulate. Also, there are lots of things that exist in the 'third world' of ideas, that are not objectively verifiable, but are nonetheless critical.

What does seem pretty convincing, though it may not be completely 'objective,' is the preponderence of evidence argument that a lot of people seem to describe the same thing when they refer to these (inner?) experiences which we came to call Knowledge. In fact, there is almost too much conformity in the premie descriptions to be convincing. What is more convincing is the fact that there are descriptions completely outside of that social situation that, though somewhat ideosyncratic, are still apparently describing the same thing. There are lots of 'techniques,' some more effective than others. The four or so we were taught seem effective for some people, but there are others. I saw geometric transformations in the 'Light' that I can now only describe in terms of synergetic geometry, which I learned much later. What the experience is, and whether or not it is 'divine,' is what can't be objectively verified in any sense. Don't you agree?

-Scott
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 14:26:29 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: verifiability
Message:
Scott: Yes, I agree. The 'source' of the 'experience' is the least verifiable of all. I'm sure that when one is meditating that there would be verifiable/measurable differences in something physical (e.g. alpha waves, lower blood pressure, etc) that could mean that 'something' is happening, but the source isn't verifiable at all; unless we happen to find the particular area in the brain that generates it (possibly?).
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 17:11:27 (EST)
From: Red
Email: None
To: Mike and Scott T
Subject: The little Bliss Ball.
Message:
Hi guys:I have this mental picture of you guys in the quest to understand the 'experience and source' ,of mounting an expedition into the wilds of the forest to attempt to 'capture' it.'Hark,here comes a little ball of magic(a Bliss Ball)frollicking through the trees', Scott whispers.Mike sets your traps and catches this little Bliss Ball and takes him back to your sterile,stainless steel laboratory and starts to probe and measure the little Bliss Ball,but everytime you probe or try to attach an instrument the Bliss Ball starts to laugh and messes up your experiment. :)
I think your coming at it from the wrong direction.Maybe poetry,music and art is a better way to understand.I think your intellect only gets in the way.'It just is'.
Red
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Date: Thurs, Feb 18, 1999 at 18:43:16 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Red
Subject: The Base Ball.
Message:
Red: The only bliss-ball that I know of is the kind where guys hit it and run around bases..... :-)
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Date: Fri, Feb 19, 1999 at 10:48:18 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Mike & Red
Subject: experiencing and understanding
Message:
I think there is a point in what both of you say.
The nature of meditation requires one to relax, enjoy, and not to think, like enjoying good music. On the other hand, we have to think and understand, too, otherwise we suddenly go off in some very strange direction. It's important to be ABLE to choose, whether to analyse music or enjoy. If you're only able to do either/or, something is missing.

Without science, the world would be a terrible place. I'm a scientist myself, I write serious scientific articles, and I love it! Yes, Godel's theoreme is valid, and there will always be things true that cannot be proved (rather, more true statements than have been proved true so far). But without science and critical thinking, we'd be lost.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:48:02 (EST)
From: Sorry steven! That's not
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: the knowledge!!
Message:
the lord maharaji said that there is no sound inside of
two things coming together.
bells, drums, organs.

the lord maharaji told Ira Woods that the light he was seeeing
inside was the light of mind.

Prem rawat himself described the light inside as this.....
'I have been in rooms that were so dark that they were darker
than what you see inside so there is light inside'
that is very close to what he said. I have the tape.
Also, he talked about when he started writing music
and he said 'there IS music inside me'

You mislead with your description of 'white light'
You see the same stuff I can see. There is no white light.
There is that stuff inside that is affected by positioning
of my fingers and repositioning of my fingers.

Look what prem rawat claims in the very latest issue of -keeping in touch-'The coming and going of this wind, the coming and going of this air is my blessing to you.'

The guy is unbelievable in his attempts to claim ownership of
the breath in any fashion.

Admit it, you stopped after 10 years of trying for the same reason
we all did. And it wasnt sour grapes.
We 'got' the experience, I 'get' the breath.

Sir David has tried the so called nectar technique plenty and
he had the same report the rest of us had. Prem rawat
still drinks and smokes pot to get any quality 'intoxication'!

'Cosmic orgasm' so, this is what we are here for eh?
This fantasy that we are to waste our human life denying
ourselves and trying to have this hardly accessable
'cosmic orgasm'- well, do you suppose that prem rawat
became the living master because HE had your 'cosmic
orgasm' one day?
Does it count if LSD did it for someone?
Or mushrooms?
Or pot,
or beer?

Or actual 'orgasm?
Perhaps no one has had the opportunity to mention to you that
yes there are those that think there is no self concious
original intelligence. Hindu guru's to mention one catagory
of folks that think it is just some 'oneness'
Like prem rawat. the best he can muster is that it is
'the unchangable' (that is his code for the breath).
YOU never hit anything inside that was unchangable.
It was always in flux correct?

prem rawat is your god correct?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:53:20 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: Sorry steven! That's not
Subject: What knowledge really is
Message:
I know what the 'light' is. It's the effect of concentrating between the eyebrows. It does something to the optic nerve. I know this for a fact because I tried doing the light quite a lot for a few weeks last year and I was seeing a lot of light all of the time, even when I wasn't meditating but I was also experiencing terrible pains in my head and at the back of my eyes where the optic nerve is. I guess that was neuralgia.

The light is caused by the optic nerve. In the end the side effects of looking at this light every day became so bad that I realised I had to stop doing it. And I had not been squeezing my eyeballs either - just looking at light. I think that with some people, looking at this light could damage the optic nerves.

I have come to the conclusion that all the techniques are actual biological or neurological phenomena. Nectar technique can stimulate hormones and the release of endorphines, that is if you don't choke to death first. Music is something similar to light except it's the audio nerve. Breath is simply breath and getting into it can sometimes bring about an increase in peaceful, Alpha brainwaves and sometimes a tingling sensation.

Yep, it's all physical stuff in my opinion. Whether practising any of these techniques is beneficial or harmful is entirely down to the individual and their physiological and psychological make up. It certainly isn't the knowledge of truth.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:09:37 (EST)
From: Again, Steven, what
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: exactly have you experienced.
Message:
What did you see on the back of your eyelids?
did you see god?
What does the god look like?
Did you see anything as good as a tree?

What did you hear inside?
What is it like?

What did you taste inside?
And how far back does your tongue go?

How much of the day do you spend feeling your breath?
Prem rawat says only 15 minutes, and only in order.
Have you been behaving?

What exactly are you entering when you go within?
Is it self concious?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:14:12 (EST)
From: And Denise, what
Email: None
To: And Denise, what
Subject: exactly have you experienced.
Message:
The above post goes for you too Ms. yesyesyes.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 14:25:39 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: techniques once more
Message:
I would be a little cautious Stevie: I don't think the techniques are necessarily 1000 years old. I have to check on the age of Gherand Samhita and Hatha-Yoga Pradipika, but I think they are younger than that.

Then, meditation on ANY techniques, or, at least, MANY techniques, might work as well as the 4K - in the sense that they increase positive feelings, concentration, whatever - but really, that does not prove that it is miraculous, comes from 'God', whatever!
Maybe it increases the effectiveness of neural transmitters, serotonin, like prozac - who knows? I personally would apply
Occam's razor. So, caution. Anyway, now I have to go home - in my part of the world it is evening, and I'm still at work. Bye for now.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:07:13 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: And Denise, what
Subject: exactly have you experienced.
Message:
Caught me just as I logged on...must be psychic!!! (Joking, of course) Who wrote this anyway?

Well, can't say my experiences have been as intense as Stevei's.
But I can tell you that I tried all kinds of meditation techniques before receiving K and none of them did a darn thing for me. I read every book and tried every technique I could get my hands on but to no avail. It was actually in desperation only that I agreed to give K a chance. A friend had been pressuring me for over a year to go ahead with it but I was too skeptical. Anyway, the first time (at my K session) was incredible. Yes, I saw light but it wasn't so amazing as the feeling I got from it. I felt suddenly more at home than ever before, like it was the place I had been looking for all my life but just didn't know it. I felt whole and yes, blissed out. As for the other techniques, music just seems to be a sound and helps me focus, third technique is such a wonderful feeling of vibration inside that produces a feeling in me of warmth and love and peacefullness, nectar a nice vibration but I could take it or leave it to be truthful.
Mostly for me it's the feeling that I get from the techniques, I'm not getting a light show or concert in my head or anything. I believe that practicing carries over into the rest of one's day in changing consciousness. Rick or others may look into articles describing this in the Journal of Transpersonal Psychology.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:21:56 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: thanks Stevei and Denise
Message:
for trying to explain something which must be quite subtle and subjective. And yes, I do have reason to believe it can all be explained by brain physiology, which, obviously varies from individual to individual.

My next question, if you don't mind is, what good is it, and is it worth the effort you put into it, and, if so, why do you feel the need to be a follower of M to have this?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 17:45:34 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: thanks Stevei and Denise
Message:
What good is it? Well, for me it changes the way I perceive my life, brings me peace and joy, bliss, and gives my life meaning.

Is it worth the effort? Yes, definately, (sp?) though I must admit I haven't put forth much effort in a few months. I go through periods of regular meditation and then space out a while, but even when I'm spaced out I still am aware that K is there for me and know I will get back to it. I believe that until my last day on this planet and maybe even after, nobody could ever take this away from me, it's too firmly embedded (the experience). If I found out tomorrow that M was a total fraud and con, I still don't see how this would change.

Why do I feel I need to be a follower of M to get this? Don't know right now. I'm not sure. I guess the problem is I came into the world of K when things were in transition and maybe nobody knew how to describe what my relationship to M was supposed to be, took me a long time to grapple with it. I can only feel love for him when I'm feeling so incredible from the experience of K.
Is it necessary to follow him? I don't know. What real difference would it make in my life except that I would remove the numerous photos of him from my home.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 18:50:03 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: thanks Stevei and Denise
Message:
Is it necessary to follow him? I don't know. What real difference would it make in my life except that I would remove the numerous photos of him from my home.

Denise,
Okay, let me get this straight. A dumpy guy from India had one of his assistants show you the meditation techniques. You did the techniques and felt joy, bliss and peace, not only in yourself but also for the guy. Then as an expression of your feelings, you hung a bunch of photos of him in your home, and this is what consists of 'following maharaji'. Right, then. Next question.

When you say you finally tried 'knowledge' out of desperation, what was the desperation? You know I realize it's very unbecoming to be insulting, but you sound like a 'Stepford...', well not 'Stepford Wife' but 'Stepford Student'. I mean, that is what they call it right, a 'student'... and you 'practice', right? You never actually do anything, just practice. Like a basketball player practices and then eventually, they play a game. Or a band practices and then they have a gig. But you just practice and practice, but you never actually do anything. Mmmm hmmm. Okeeeeeay!
Rick
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 19:56:06 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: thanks Stevei and Denise
Message:
Rick, these days there really isn't much to being a premie or following M except what's in one's heart. Pretty much it's meditation, going to videos and maybe going to a live event once a year. Oh, I guess there's propagation, but I was never so good at that anyway.

Regarding the desperation, that had to do with being thirsty (as we call it today) or feeling like a connection to the spiritual part of myself was lacking and necessary. Basically, I was worried about this whole thing being a cult but since nothing else worked for me, I tried it. I was told that the door was always open (M still says this all the time) and that if I didn't like it I could leave. So I figured I had nothing to lose by trying K and got what I bargained for.

This word 'practice' I never cared for, I still prefer to call it meditating, but it became not so politically correct to do so among premies (also a word that is not 'politically' correct, but no replacement was given so it stuck in an underground kind of manner).

What's the deal with the Stepford Student? Remember, the rules changed by the time I got K, so I was being a good girl all along.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:23:36 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: thanks Stevei and Denise
Message:
,i>What's the deal with the Stepford Student? Remember, the rules changed by the time I got K, so I was being a good girl all along.

Did you see the movie 'Stepford Wives'? I'm now assuming you didn't because you didn't get the reference. It was about an upper-middle class suburb where the men drugged their wives and slowly replaced their bodies with some bionic parts. The wives of Stepford became 'perfect wives', their only desire to please their husbands. It made a powerful statement about sexism and women's issues. Some of the women rebelled in the end, and managed to get off the medications that were turning them into zombies. They either killed the men or got them arrested or something.

Sometimes being a 'good girl' is a 'Stepford' thing to do. The reason I wrote 'Stepford Student' is because the last I heard, premies were called 'students'. Premies of yesteryear and even today's premies seem very 'Stepford' to me. I guess there's not much to it anymore except for some photos on the wall. Maybe we should disband this site.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 20:26:56 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: secret techniques
Message:
I appreciate that you are able to stick around through the disdain, Denise. As far as a replacement for the word premie, I had heard that now its PWK's(people with knowledge) I don't know if this is still in effect though.
I'm curious what you think about the big need for gmj to keep the techniques so secret, and make aspirants 'aspire' for months and years? I really don't see the sense in this.
Back in the early seventies you could get K in about 3 days, now it takes a year plus. Why the need to change that? Doesn't it seem fishy?
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 21:02:28 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: secret techniques
Message:
You're right about the PWK, I forgot, but I've never actually heard anyone say it, it's always just in writing.

As far as the aspirants waiting, I personally know someone that waited for 3 or 4 years in the 70's. Anyway, my feeling about this is that it's good. The reason is that K is something that one doesn't just get easily and toss away just as easily. It's a life decision, like getting married. You don't just decide over night about marriage and it shouldn't be considered as such. In my early days in college soon after I got K, I was so excited about it, I was spreading the word all over. Three or four people received K that year, a relative and a few friends and all got it right away after meeting with an instructor once or twice. None stuck with it . This was the early 80's. I received K after meeting with an instructor just once, waiting just 3 months from the time I made the decision to go ahead with it. The day after meeting with her I got the prize. Anyway, this shows me that people need to take the time to make really sure it's what they want and not just a passing fancy, like having a great first date with someone and deciding to get married the next day. It has nothing to do with punishment or putdown. It's not fishy at all to me, I think it should have been this way all along.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 22:57:08 (EST)
From: Sir David
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: Denise
Subject: Nothing fishy???!!!
Message:
Four public domain meditation techniques and people are kept waiting for months! There is no knowledge given. There's no difference to a person who comes out of the knowledge session to when they went in.

The reason why Maharaji keeps people waiting is so that only the people who are devotee material will have the staying power to complete the obstical course. Maharaji wants devotees who see him as a LEADER and a FIGUREHEAD. Then they will donate part of their annual income to him.

But now he's going to have a big problem because the meditation techniques are going to be known by everyone who has internet access and searches for Maharaji on the search engines. So they won't go through the hassle of watching Maharaji's videos for a year, will they. The result will be, even less people becoming paying devotees.

What the heck, Maharaji's finished in the West. He knows it now.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 22:58:02 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: secret techniques
Message:
That's fair enough, thanks for answering, Denise. I must say you're being pretty reasonable. Maybe you're right about people throwing out k if they get it 'too easy'. I know I did, I got knowledge in 74 at age 8 and it certainly never worked for me.
Could it be possible that people are more likely to stick with k after a long aspirant period because the mind programming takes time to have an effect? What do you think about brainwashing, hypnosis, auto-suggestion, etc., and do you think it's possible they play any role in your so called experience of 'knowledge'?
I f you haven't read a book called The Guru Papers you should check it out, it explains a lot.
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Date: Tues, Feb 16, 1999 at 23:38:47 (EST)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Denise
Subject: secret techniques
Message:
Hi Denise!
So then putting the photos on your walls is a really big deal? God, now I'm confused. I thought that if you stopped following maharaji, it would just be a matter of removing some of his pictures from your walls. But now you say that in order for someone to meditate, there should be a long process of preparation. If that's the case, then there has to be more involved in no longer following maharaji than removing some photos.

Here's the thing... if maharaji's knowledge is the 'knowledge of all knowledges', and one is desperate for it (like you say you were), then what's the need for a lengthy preparation? I submit that the reason a long preparation is necessary is that it really isn't the prize of divinity. I would compare it more to waiting for sex until after marriage--not particularly wise if you want to have a good time in bed.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 03:23:43 (EST)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: Proof of Techniques of K
Message:
I think its probably horses for courses.I enjoyed the techniques too,but have found others since that lead to the same experience.Towards the time I left I found the light and sound techniques irritating and awkward.Basically I think they're just points of focus into whats already there.Too much can be made of them and M found a spiritually naive and gullible western youth population all too ready to hand over acknowledgement of any experience to him.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 07:10:28 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: all
Subject: 1+1+1 = 3
Message:
OK...we know from all the scriptures we have Body+Soul+Spirit...

Well we all know what the Body is....the Soul is our personality in this incarnation...sum tota of our life experiences..
Spirit is the gasoline in the Engine...Life Force whatever..

This Life force in the body must manifest itself in some ways....how? It is a primal Energy...which I believe the 4K are doors that lead into it...just doors nothing else....This primal energy...manifest itself as Light..sound...vibrartion...pretty much all the scriptures agree on that.....

The Light technique..leads to the door of the Light of the Spirit...what you see..depends on how much luggare u are carrying...

So I mean ..it is not really a secret or a big deal....really all quite logical....Nothing Mysterious....

Note please I am not talking about M here...I am able to differentiate between M and knowledge..I dont mix the two together....Spirit was and is and will be...
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:24:15 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: 1+1+1 = 3
Message:
I agree. Nobody, including M, was never too clear about the role of the Master in the actual experience of the techniques, if there is a role. I do find that he keeps me focused on the important things in life through his videos, which I appreciate. Sometimes I find myself getting too caught up in all the garbage going on in my life.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:45:08 (EST)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: age of techniques
Message:
Hi Stevei,

You adressed me about the age of Patanjali's Yoga sutras.
They are quite old, but I have to look into it a little more to be absolutely sure.

Patanjali's yoga sutras, Gherand Samhita, and Hatha-yoga Pradipika - my guess is that Patanjali is somewhat older than the other two. It is also less specific about techniques. If there is a university department for sanskrit, comparative religion around where you live, you could ask. But I promise to try to find out
from my sources, too.

The age of yoga and meditation is a debated issue. Scientists of comparative religion usually say that yoga was developed among the kshatriyas, the warrior cast, fairly recently (i.e. the last 1000 years). Yogis and gurus usually claim their tradition to go down to ancient rishis (seers). It is difficult to substantiate these claims, however.

In the old Indus' culture, there were two cities, Harappa and Mohenjo-daro (5000 years ago). One statue has been found which COULD be regarded as a Shiva statue in lotus position. I have seen a copy of that statue. It's possible, but the evidence is very weak, to say the least.

Bhagavad-Gita is about 2500 years old. There are clear references to meditation there, but Krishna told Arjuna to concentrate 'on the tip of the nose', NOT on the so called 3rd eye. The 3rd eye is a more recent concept. That is quite certain.

Surely, the Upanishads go back to around 2500 years ago. In the Upanishads, yoga techniques are not clearly described, but the philosophy is all there, of course.

Then the issue HOW meditation works: well, I guess that's an open question. IMO, there are many techniques, some 'work' for some people, some for others. But I would avoid putting too much magic into it!

I really think the the 'Light' is activity in the optical nerves,
the 'Music' activity in the audical nerves, the 'Nectar' technique might stimulate your pineal gland - possibly - and so on. Focusing on these might bring about positive feelings and experiences. I see nothing wrong with your practising meditation if you enjoy it! But be careful in applying magic and spirituality into it. I meditate myself, but not exactly as M. suggests. And, the techniques are NOT HIS anyway, and they work better WITHOUT him.

And, MEDITATION CAN NEVER SOLVE ANYONE'S PERSONAL NOR EXISTENTIAL PROBLEMS.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 09:54:37 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Stevei and Jerry
Subject: 1+1+1 = 3
Message:
The Light technique..leads to the door of the Light of the Spirit...what you see..depends on how much luggare u are carrying...

Well, Jerry, ole buddy, looks like you and I are fucked... We'll never see the light because of all the luggare (baggage?) we're carrying. Of course it has nothing to do with brain physiology and individual differences. It's all karma.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 12:08:01 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: 1+1+1 = 3?
Message:
Gerry,

It can't be karma. This Knowledge erases karma by guru's grace. So it must be something else. It can't be physiology, because I don't think you need a brain to meditate. Do you? And it can't be individuality because we're all one in spirit. Right? So Stevei must be right. It's gotta be luggare!
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 12:15:55 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Damn the luggare! LOL (nt)
Message:
it's always something!
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 14:30:10 (EST)
From: Stevei
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Hehehe Luggare
Message:
Hehehe...yes u are right it is the luggare.....Special thing this luggare.....(by the way luggare is a Nepalese word fo being Horney...see Denises thread)
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 12:17:06 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: No karma, RELAXATION!
Message:
My experience is it's only a matter of relaxing deeply, which is not very easy for many people. That's why 'good' meditation teachers usually use various techniques to help you relax before actually practicing meditation. It might take quite long for some people (like me), but it worked.

My opinion is that the BM's relaxation technique is: listen to boring and empty discourses, listen to hypnotic music or watch hypnotic videos, and then meditate. That's the problem. There are more innocuous ways to relax before meditating.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:23:50 (EST)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: 1+1+1 = 3?
Message:
M has been saying that karma is bs and jokes about people who believe in it., just for your information.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 17:49:16 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: gee Stevei
Message:
Stevei: I always thought that there were just two things: Spirit (e.g. THE consciousness) and maya.... that's all, just two. NOW, who's right? You or me? Which 'concept' is correct, yours or mine? Which scripture has it right, yours or mine or someone else's? They are NOT 'all the same.' 2 does not equal 3.

CONCEPTS, stevei.... just OLD concepts, that's all.
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Date: Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 21:57:00 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Stevei
Subject: 1+1+1 = 3
Message:
Okay, scripture boy, let's have citations for these quotes. You can save a little time on JM site; he has them all laid out for you, with proper exegesis. Of course, I expect quotes from all the scriptures, Hebrew, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Zorastrian, Manichean, Taoist, Gnostic....
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