Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 40 | |
From: Feb 26, 1999 |
To: Mar 8, 1999 |
Page: 3 Of: 5 |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 11:48:55 (EST)
From: Garth Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Legal Action Message: In this lawsuit-happy land of ours, I'm surprised no-one has thought to consider some sort of legal action against M. Now I'm not bent on revenge; I have little to be revengeful about compared to many here, but it seems to me that much if not all of the money extracted from premies over the years was done so under false pretenses, under duress possibly. Emotional pressure was brought to bear, funds didn't go where we were led to believe they would. Additionally, I wouldn't be surprises if the IRS was deceived as to the sources and amounts of dollars collected as well as its destination (his pocket). They got Jim Bakker, why can't we get M? Is he an American citizen? Maybe we can get him deported back to India dressed in rags! Finally living up to his followers' vows of poverty! How about a class-action? Just brainstorming here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 18:43:26 (EST)
From: cp Email: None To: Garth Subject: Legal Action Message: Dear Garth It has been brought up. It is obvious that there is some sort of action to be taken. Trouble is that the forum is only a platform for discussion.. I think someone is doing the feasiblity work.. IN addition and possibly a more effective first step is the 'Guru Ezpose'. Someone has said that they would coordinate organized contacts of various media outlets that are not the net. Ex cult members of other cults have banded together and held their leaders accountable for crimes committed - crimes of molestation, intimidation and harrassment. There are all these and more with M-DLM EV This was bieng discussed and different aspects were activated, when the recent flood of disrupters wedged in to deflect the attention and focus. Thats what is happening as far as what I can tell. Of course , I am not lone of the regulars in the forum. I think there is probably narrow but solid basis for a class action - but it may be less time consuming and more effective to put energy into the Expose- even if it ends up bieng in the Inquirer or such like. If you are interested, the info is in the archives- just a few weeks back. If you trace back through the achives, you will see some interesting things in the works Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 22:00:59 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Garth Subject: Legal Action Message: How about cause no one's got a case. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 05, 1999 at 20:57:17 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Nil Subject: Legal Action Message: How about cause no one's got a case. ...for now that is, Nil. Be patient. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 08:52:34 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Check out Maharaji's FAQ Message: Maharaji's got a new 'Frequently Asked Questions' section on his web site. The address is: http://www.maharaji.org/facts/questions.htm Let's take a look.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 08:54:32 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: 1) How smart is the hamster? Message: 'Maharaji attended St. Joseph's Academy in Dehra Dun, India. He later graduated as an airline transport pilot and holds a number of pilot type ratings on jet airplanes and helicopters. Maharaji has advanced skills in computer graphics, computer-aided design, and the development of aviation software. He has invented a number of aviation related applications and products and holds a watch patent. He is also a successful private investor and has contributed to the success of several startup companies in various industries, including software.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 11:09:07 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Jim Subject: using slave labor droids Message: ugh, the guy is merciless in his abuse. It is so insulting to us for him to trumpet his abuse as achievements. The ultimate ruler lists his accomplishments and notice no mention of 'raiseing up a crop of devotees that are having 'that experience'.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 12:52:39 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: bill Subject: Color me impressed! Message: My youngest sister went to India and visited St. Joesph's Academy and talked to the Headmaster. Maharaji was well remembered by the Headmaster as a spoiled goof off. I attempted to do a search at the U.S. Patent and Technology Office click here for U.S. PTO, but came up empty on searches using 'Rawat', 'Maharaji', 'Singh' as the inventor's name. He may be posting with an alias or a corporate name. I did see, however, there was a patent for a Christmas Tree stand issued to someone in Malibu. A successful private investor? If he was who he claimed to be he could be making a killing as a Day Trader. Puff up, you doo-doo bird! Just don't tell anyone where you got all your seed capital. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 11:57:49 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: 1) Truth or lies? Message: 'Maharaji attended St. Joseph's Academy in Dehra Dun, India. (emphasis mine.) But isn't this misleading? The fact is, the guy is a high-school drop-out. Didn't he drop out after grade nine? Or was it ten? Anyway, without clarification, the sentence implies that he graduated. Or am I the only one who reads it so? He later graduated as an airline transport pilot and holds a number of pilot type ratings on jet airplanes and helicopters.(emphasis mine.) This sentence, after the first, implies that Maharaji completed his studies at St. Joseph's, then carried on with his education somehow. Where did he 'graduate' from? If he didn't actually enroll in a school but rather merely challenged some exams, using the term 'graduate' is simply wrong. It does go some way in masking the high-school drop-put problem, doesn't it? I mean, how different it would have read as: 'Maharaji attended St. Joseph's Academy in Dehra Dunn, India for a few years but left his formal education after grade nine. Some time later, he learned to fly and is currently a licenced pilot for various kinds of aircraft.' Maharaji has advanced skills in computer graphics, computer-aided design, and the development of aviation software. Advanced? What's that mean? I take it he's done a little programming, right? Wouldn't that be sine qua non (sp?) for 'advanced skills'? Fine. What software has he devloped? Or what complex design stuff has he done? And the aviation software, is this something someone we can find somewhere? What I'd really like to know is what role, if any, Maharaji had developing any of it. He has invented a number of aviation related applications and products and holds a watch patent. Oh yeah? How many 'applications and products'? What are they and, again, what role did Maharaji play in creating them? Were others involved? Why doesn't he credit them, then, as co-inventors? And what's with this patent? Did he simply accept it as an assignment from some hoodwinked devotee? If so, why would he mention it here if not solely to mislead people about his skills and education? He is also a successful private investor and has contributed to the success of several startup companies in various industries, including software. HEY FELLA! THAT'S MY MONEY! To think that this fucking jerk would have the gall the brag about his success as a 'private investor' (not to mention his pathetic add-on 'including software' as if that somehow gives him some added cachet). Amazing. I do hope the IRS busts this guy, the sooner the better. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 12:25:24 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: 1) What about as a 'master'? Message: You know, here's this guy bragging about all this other shit like piloting and 'successfully' investing our money (for us, no doubt), but what about his background in his own field? You know, the spiritual stuff. Somewhere, sometime, Maharaji learned some laughably stupid things about evolution: Today man is getting proud, but I've got something to tell him that he shouldn't be proud of. If you read the theory of Darwin carefully, it brings you to this point, that first man came in the shape of a gorilla, right? And it had many hairs all around. Then the hairs lessened, and he came into a more civilized form. But we still have hairs. That means, according to Darwin, that even we are not too civilized. Even we are not worthy to be called the highest form of life. Because, according to him, when hairs lessened man was more civilized, and we still have hairs all around our body. That means that even we are not completely civilized. life: Because there is nothing like death. What are you? You were never created, you were composed out of elements. When these things were composed and sustained by energies, you became alive. And when these things disintegrate, you will be dead. So actually death doesn't exist. It is just these elements building, composing, and disintegrating. So understand the third dimension, the dimesnion beyond space and time. This is reality. psychology: Now there are some people who are probably almost freaking out. And they're freaking out because they have certain feelings. They think certain things. But I do not understand it. If you don't think a thing, it doesn't appear. It doesn't come up. history: If we start at the beginning, man came into this world and the whole thing and then there were kingdoms. There was never a time in those kingdoms and neither is there a time in these kingdoms when everything is peace and quiet. diet: I know one thing - 'what you eat, so you become'. I say from experience. I'll tell you one thing, since it's not meant for human beings to eat meat and there's a very logical explanation - may be you even know it. You know, it's like people or the beings that are supposed to eat meat, like cats, lions or animals like that, they always lick water. They don't, they don't suck water. They always lick it. They take their tongue out like that. You have seen how a cat drinks water and how a dog drinks it. But beings that suck water don't eat meat. And that's the way it's supposed to be. And man sucks water - does not lick water, since he is not supposed to eat meat. And God has provided him and made him the king of all nature - not to kill other beings, but to... and biology: The root is the consciousness, but where does the consciousness actually lie ? Because root, if you take root itself, it's in a seed. You see, there is a little explanation to that. If you are eating meat, you are eating out of a being, right ? Like supposedly, some people eat cow, right? Cow comes from life, a mother. Right ? And that also come from a life, and it's a life to a life to a life circle. But a plant does not come from a life. It comes from dead, from a seed which is dead. It doesn't need any nutrition. It's a dead seed. When you plant it, and that's when it becomes (alive), for it to grow, and to give you fruits. He's obviously an extremely learned man. But where did he learn all this stuff? Is all this wisdom part and parcel of the avatar experience? Did Maharaji pick these things up in grades eight and nine at St. Joseph's Academy (in Dehra Dun,, India)? How does he know what he's talking about? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 13:14:43 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Jim Subject: *** Best of the Forum - maybe? Message: Jim, This is good stuff. It might have to go on House of Drek's Best of the Forum. But as soon as I read a quote from Maharaji (Today man is getting proud, but...) I became nauseous and stopped reading. Maharaji, shut the fuck up, you goddamn windbag! Why do you have to quote this guy? I just can't read that shit anymore. I can't even imagine what would happen if I was forced to watch his videos ala Clockwork Orange. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 14:37:44 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jim Subject: 3-dimensions? Message: Jim: When M says, 'So understand the third dimension, the dimesnion beyond space and time,' he doesn't seem to understand the fact that we are currently living in THREE dimensions, not two. Additionally, he doesn't seem to understand the fact that these same 3-dimensions describe SPACE as we currently know it. The 3-dmensions have nothing to do with time, per se. In pilot's terms they are referred to as roll, pitch and yaw (x, y and z axis). Hmmmmmmm..... makes me wonder what kind of a pilot he really is.... Obviously not a very good one; he doesn't even understand the space that he is flying through. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 21:30:15 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Mike Subject: 3-dimensions? Message: Don't you understand ANYTHING Mike? The third dimension is width. As in big fat stomach. Maharaji's just realised it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 12:32:28 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Greaseball is a lying sack of Message: shit. He has invented a number of aviation related applications and products and holds a watch patent. I did a patent search under ''Rawatt'' and there is no one with that name who holds ANY US patents. Maybe I should have searched under God? As a contrast, there are nine patents held by a ''Jim Heller.'' Check it out for yourself: Patent Office Searchable Database: Proof Goober's a Liar Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 13:12:55 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: gerry Subject: Greaseball is a lying sack of Message: gerry , this is a little bit embarrassing, but still being very much in my computer newbie stage, I'm afraid it would take me a whole afternoon to figure out how to do a proper search. I've really got some work to do this afternoon. So, can someone please help and do a patent search on 'AMTEXT'? Does Amtext own patents, perhaps even copyrights, trademarks?(that is, if copyrights and trademarks are registered along with patents at the US patents office, or would these be registered elsewhere.?) Also, gerry,I beleive that it is spelled rawat with one t, instead of two(although, I may be mistaken about this). Would that have thrown off your search? Got to go. Thanks. Later. Nim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 14:02:33 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Nim Subject: Greaseball is a lying sack of Message: When I did the patent search, I checked the name using both spellings. No goober watch patents, this is a patent lie, he, he. Also, copyrights and trademarks are different animals and not searchable at that site. I did check for Amtext patents and no such thing exists. All I could find on Trademark search databases are ones which charge a fee. THE MAIN POINT IS MAHARAJI CLAIMS TO HOLD A PATENT ON SOME SORT OF A WATCH AND THIS IS NOT TRUE. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 14:21:12 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Nim Subject: Greaseball is a liar Message: I found the trademark database. It was on the same website as the patent database. duh! Anyway, no one holds a trademark for ''Amtext'' so it's all yours if you want it! Hope this helps. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 08:56:48 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: 2) Why's he need your money? Message: 'Maharaji writes poetry and composes music using advanced computer technology. He plays the flute, piano, and conga drums. Some of his poetry and music can be found on this website. His other hobbies include painting, cooking, photography, tennis, boating, sailing, flying glider planes, restoring vintage automobiles, and collecting watches.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 13:37:47 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: Jim Subject: 2) Why's he need your money? Message: Maharaji, you idiot! Who approved this shit? Do you hear what you're saying? You're saying that you're so rich and idle that you a collector of watches. Yeah, ever since the early days when your goons smuggled suitcases full of watches into or out of India. You sit on your gold plated toilet proudly admiring your newest $30,000 watch and think back on how all of your public speaking engagements start precisely on Atomic adjusted time at the same instant that 11.3 people on the planet died of starvation. Rich people like you need a cocaine habit to bring you back down to earth. This line is on me, Maharaji. Sniff it up: We gotta take a meeting someday soon. Maybe that new Oxygen Bar? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 08:58:10 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: 3) Is Monica his only love? Message: 'Maharaji and his wife of 24 years have four children.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 17:30:25 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: Jim Subject: 3) Is Monica his only love? Message: 'Maharaji and his wife of 24 years have four children.' Yeah, and Bill Clinton and his wife of 20 or so years have one daughter. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 09:00:31 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Any Travel Advisories? Message: 'Language and culture are not a barrier for people interested in Maharaji's Knowledge. Between the events he attends and video tapes from these events, Maharaji's addresses are translated into 65 languages: Agni, American sign language, Arabic, Attie, Baule, Bete, Bhojpuri, Bosnian, British sign language, Bulgarian, Cantonese, Creole, Croatian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Ewe, Fante, Farsi, Fon, French, Ga, German, Greek, Gujarati, Gurmukhi, Guro, Hebrew, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Japanese, Jula, Kannad, Korean, Malagasy, Malay, Malayalam, Mandarin, Marathi, Mina, Nepali, Newari, Norwegian, Oriya, Polish, Portuguese, Russian, Serbian, Sinhalese, Slovenian, Sotho, Spanish, Swedish, Tagalog, Taiwanese, Tamil, Telegu, Thai, Twi, Wee, and Zulu. In remote locations where modern conveniences are not available, Maharaji's addresses are read aloud.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 09:02:46 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: 5) What about 'world peace'? Message: 'Since beginning his work in 1966, Maharaji has spoken before millions at over 2500 events in more than 250 cities in 50 countries. Between 1992 and 1998, 1.3 million people came to hear him at more than 800 events. In 1998, Maharaji attended 123 events in 26 cities in 15 countries with a total attendance of more than 300,000 people. On December 13, 1998, Maharaji gave his first global presentation via live satellite broadcast. This event was attended by over 86,000 people at 173 locations in 55 countries. In the past 12 years, to bring his message to the world, Maharaji has traveled more than 2 million miles, including 147,300 miles in 1998 alone.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 17:49:53 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: Jim Subject: 5) What about 'world peace'? Message: 'Maharaji has traveled more than 2 million miles, including 147,300 miles in 1998 alone.' I wonder how the fuck he calculates this! Is this taken from the speedo reading from the cockpit of the Gulfstream (!!) or does he take into account the speedos on all his fleet of vehicles (including Hansi's monster truck) and add them all up. Or does he get out his ruler and fancy aviation instruments that he hasn't yet patented and measure up, as the crow flies, all his flight paths around the world...even if he just did a stop-off or detour to refuel. What other person do you know estimates their success by their frigging frequent flyer points??? God, what a wanker! Mind you, I reckon he could have covered at least 47,300 of those miles just by walking from one end of the Malibu dreamhouse and back again when he's gone for a midnight snack or a raunchy dalliance with Mon. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 09:04:26 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: 6) A special kind of hell? Message: 'Videos from Maharaji's events are shown in small programs around the world on a regular basis. In an average month in 1998, there were 14,300 video presentations at more than 2,300 locations in 80 countries with a total audience of 472,000. Of these, 117,000 were people coming to a video presentation for the first time. These numbers do not include audio-only programs which are popular in Africa, India, and Nepal.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 11:33:54 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jim Subject: No premie believe this! Message: Knowing how EV's statistics are done, who's this guy going to deceit? Let's say videos are shown in 5 different halls in Paris every months, that count for 5 places ! Say that there are 10 video events in Paris every month, with an average of 100 attendees to every video, that counts for 1000 persons coming to videos when there are only maybe 200 altogether! Most of the premies KNOW THIS What do they think about your way of presenting facts Mr Prem Rawat???? I guess they're ashamed of you, at least VERY EMBARRASSED ! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 13:47:00 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: wrong... Message: JM, with all due respect, i don't think you can speak on my behalf or on anyone else's behalf but your own... I for one am not embarrassed or ashamed, i can tell you that! i am rather PROUD of him... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 14:08:51 (EST)
From: GERRY Email: None To: Orlando Subject: wrong... Message: Orlando, Are you proud of his deliberate LIE about his ''watch patent?'' IT DOESN'T EXIST! How many of his other claims are blatant falsehoods? How can anyone believe this LIAR? Of course you will choose to ignore this as you are a lying, weaseling cult apologist who by definition has no spine or shred of decency. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 14:18:01 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: GERRY Subject: Earth to Gerry... Message: Hey Gerry: Not to be the party pooper, but what does M's mechanical aptitude have to do with the price of eggs in china? M has always been interested in cars, planes, computers, watches, (God, how many times I had to hear him speak about how incredible his watch was because it could measure 1/100's of a second!) In fact, that's his natural gift! That's actually where his love lies, in gadgets and technology etc. Whether he has patents is not relevant, imho, to be the reason we started this forum. And don't begrude Orlando his pride in his Master. His Master has an actual watch patent. Wow! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 14:29:25 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: John Subject: Earth to Gerry... Message: Oh, right you are John. I DO get carried away sometimes, and as Jim pointed out, tend to jump to conclusions. Thanks for bringing me back. Is that what they mean by being ''grounded?'' And don't begrude Orlando his pride in his Master. His Master has an actual watch patent. Wow! No, he should be proud of his Master. And, of course he has a watch patent, he's just too shy and modest to register it. But wait, that would mean he really DOESN'T have a patent. But then, he really does, but...oh I'm so confused!!! Orlando, help (if you can understand this, given your ancestral handicap.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 16:15:32 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: gerry Subject: handicap Message: Gerry, you write: 'Orlando, help (if you can understand this, given your ancestral handicap.) ' can you explain this last sentence without sounding too much like a racist? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 16:32:29 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Orlando Subject: handicap???? Message: Orlando: I believe that gerry is poking fun at the fact that you tried to play the race card before by claiming that english is a second language and then calling the person to whom you were speaking a racist for picking on your english before they knew about it. Now you are trying to play the race card again..... BTW, after reading many of your posts, I don't believe that english is a second language for you. If I'm wrong about this I'm sorry, but your command of humor in english seems to indicate that it is your primary language, not secondary. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 16:39:33 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Mike and orlando Subject: handicap???? Message: Mike said it perfectly. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 16:43:01 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Mike Subject: thank you Message: Mike, you made my day! (Unexpectedly?) you really flattered me... english IS my second language. (But i do read a lot of english and i LOVE humour in any language). About the racist 'card', i will wait for Gerry's explanation... i don't know him...so what i write is just a first impression. By the way, in the USA, there are a lot of Americans who think that Latinos are 'dim witted' just because they have an accent. I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE CASE HERE, but i get this kind of shit often in my day to day life and frankly i am thin skinned on the subject... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 16:48:21 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Orlando Subject: thank you Message: Orlando: I don't think that anyone on this forum is an outright racist. Certainly, no one here (and I DO think that I can speak for everyone on this issue) thinks that latinos are 'dim-witted.' I think that you can 'thicken your skin' here and be safe. There are alot of things that we can pick on concerning one another without EVER playing the race card (IMHO). As far as I'm concerned there is only ONE race, the 'human race' and it 'comes in colors....' Nice, in my opinion! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 21:01:16 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: gerry Subject: Earth to Gerry... Message: It's not difficult to get a watch patent, Gerry. Mickey Mouse watches have been patented before going on sale. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 21:15:00 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Earth to Gerry... Message: It's not difficult to get a watch patent, Gerry. Mickey Mouse watches have been patented before going on sale. So, if I put Goober's face on a watch I can get a patent on it right? I believe this is called a design copyright. Clearly, it is different than a patent for an invention. If he indeed holds a design copyright for a goofy swan or something on a watch face, then Goober's hacks were deliberately trying to make it sound much more significant than it is. Which is still deception. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 21:36:19 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: All Subject: Dave's right! Sorta... Message: There is such thing as a design patent. Patent protection is also available for plants and new and ornamental designs for useful products. HOWEVER...design patents are also registered. There is no patent for goober's watch under his name, Elan Vital or Linda Gross or any Rawat or Rawatt. It's utter bullshit and resume padding for the amazing grade school grad... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 00:20:41 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Earth to Gerry... Message: Regarding a 'watch patent,' I agree they are pretty easy to get. Moreover, the FAQ doesn't say M 'invented' any kind of a watch. It just says he 'holds' a watch patent. Someone else may have invented whatever it is and gave, or sold, the patent to M, or whatever entity, such as a corporation or a trust owned by M, that actually owns the patent. I doubt M would 'hold' the patent in his own name, given his paranoid need for security. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 11:10:30 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: JW Subject: JW for the Defense Message: Regarding a 'watch patent,' I agree they are pretty easy to get. If you are talking about a ''design patent.'' you are correct. If you are talking about a ''utility patent'' they are very difficult to get, and especially so for something which already exists, such as watch. Moreover, the FAQ doesn't say M 'invented' any kind of a watch. It just says he 'holds' a watch patent. I didn't claim he invented anything. I know that it says he ''holds'' the patent. Someone else may have invented whatever it is and gave, or sold, the patent to M, or whatever entity, such as a corporation or a trust owned by M, that actually owns the patent. The statement in the FAQ leaves little doubt that it was meant to convey the idea that M holds the patent, not anyone else. Even if someone ''gave'' it to him, the ''inventor'' and the ''assignee'' would be conspicuously named in the patent registration. I do see your point that some phantom legal entity may hold this phantom patent, but that's not what the FAQ statements says. Either way, it is a falsehood meant to create the impression of some genius creativity on goober's part. I doubt M would 'hold' the patent in his own name, given his paranoid need for security. Well, that's not what this very public statement says. What I like about this seemingly minor point is that it is one of a very few claims of his which are verifiable in the public record. If it is not there, than it is false and he goes on record as a liar. That's why I think it's important to pin this down. Furthermore, ANYTHING he says or claims publicly on the internet gives us the opportunity to scrutinize and verify whether he is telling the truth or is lying. I think we've caught him in a lie we can prove. He's taking a big chance coming out on the net and I, for one, want him to know that everything he and his cult members say is now fair game and can be used against him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 11:22:10 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gerry Subject: I agree fully, Ger Message: Gerry, You're absolutely right about this. Maharaji put up the patent thing to impress. The claim serves absolutely no other reason. So, if it's the least bit exaggerated (or misleading), we know we're dealing with just another self-promoting bullshitter. In fact, even if the claim were entirely fair and accurate, you'd have to wonder why he's making it. Why doesn't he tell us how much weight he can bench press while he's at it? I mean Shri Chinmoy, at least, tries to tie his braggadoccio in to his supposed enlightened nature ('how could I paint a thousand pictures if I wasn't fully god-realized?'). The claims are all bogus and beside the point but that's beside the point. At least he tries to make them relevant to something. Maharaji, on the other hand, is just bragging. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 12:53:57 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Gerry Subject: No Defense Message: Well, I think I would be about the last person to defend Maharaji. But he may well 'hold' a patent for a watch, or some part of a watch, and he may or may not have had anything to do with inventing or designing it or that it has any value whatsoever. And he might 'hold' it in a name other than his own. I have heard people who worked around Maharaji say that he might not own anything in his own name, or almost nothing. It's all in trusts or corporations or other entities he controls, and I don't think a patent would be any different. I think the FAQ was carefully written to be technically truthful, while at the same time being very misleading, all to make M look 'better' than he is. But if he wanted to lie about things he's done, he could do a lot better than say something as pathetic as he 'holds' a watch patent. I'm, sure his lawyers carefully review anything he puts on that website to be sure that he doesn't get caught in a lie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 13:19:28 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: JW Subject: No Offense, Message: Well, I think I would be about the last person to defend Maharaji. I think you'd be in a very long line of people vying to be the last to defend goober. :-) But he may well 'hold' a patent for a watch, or some part of a watch, and he may or may not have had anything to do with inventing or designing it or that it has any value whatsoever. And he might 'hold' it in a name other than his own. I don't get it JW. How can he 'hold a patent' unless it is in his own name? The answer is he can't. Not legally. He would have no rights to it. Either he holds it or he doesn't. If it is in another name than that person or entity ''holds'' it. What's so difficult to understand about this? The FAQ state that HE holds it, not some other entity. I have heard people who worked around Maharaji say that he might not own anything in his own name, or almost nothing. It's all in trusts or corporations or other entities he controls, and I don't think a patent would be any different. It's probably true that he has his assets carefully hidden. A patent is somewhat of a different story. It has to be registered and the registered party is the one who 'holds' it. I think the FAQ was carefully written to be technically truthful, while at the same time being very misleading, all to make M look 'better' than he is. But if he wanted to lie about things he's done, he could do a lot better than say something as pathetic as he 'holds' a watch patent. I agree it is a pathetic lie, and there it is on his website for all to behold. He lies about the things he's done all the time. Knowledge is a lie. This patent thing is different because it can be shown to be a lie beyond all doubt. PS When are you gonna let me win one? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 18:14:26 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Gerry Subject: No Offense, Message: How can he 'hold a patent' unless it is in his own name? The answer is he can't. Not legally. He would have no rights to it. Either he holds it or he doesn't. If it is in another name than that person or entity ''holds'' it. What's so difficult to understand about this? The FAQ state that HE holds it, not some other entity. Gerry, you are wrong. He can 'hold' a patent in other than his own name. People do it all the time and there isn't anything 'illegal' about it. All 'hold' means is to control or to possess something and can be different form ownership. A tenant 'holds' a property but doesn't own it. A 'holding company' controls other companies but only has a 'controlling' interest, and only a partial ownership intersest. Property is 'held' in a trust, etc. So, Maharaji would 'hold' a patent, for example, if, no mater who invented the thing that was patented, it was owned by a corporation or trust that he, in turn, owns or controls. I have clients who patent things all the time invented by their employees, but the corporation owns the patent and sometimes it's a subsidiary that is the registered owner. They also buy patents from and sell them to, other corporations and they also 'assign' them to other corporations. M would also 'hold' a patent if the original owner of the patent assigned it to him by contract either by donation or sale. This also is really common. In neither of those cases would M's name show up on a patent search, but it isn't incorrect to say that he 'holds' the patent anyway. Obviously, I don't know whether he just made up the patent entirely, but I doubt that he did, and, again, I'm pretty sure his lawyers are scrutinizing every word on that website. In any event, I think it's kind of sad that he has to resort to such a lame thing to try to impress people. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 18:54:29 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: JW Subject: No Offense, Message: You are wrong about this: M would also 'hold' a patent if the original owner of the patent assigned it to him by contract either by donation or sale. This also is really common. In neither of those cases would M's name show up on a patent search, but it isn't incorrect to say that he 'holds' the patent anyway. If rawat were assigned a patent, it would definitely show up on the Patent Office registry, along with the name of the inventor. Also, when an employee invents something, his name as well as the company name appear on the registration. So, Maharaji would 'hold' a patent, for example, if, no mater who invented the thing that was patented, it was owned by a corporation or trust that he, in turn, owns or controls. I have clients who patent things all the time invented by their employees, but the corporation owns the patent and sometimes it's a subsidiary that is the registered owner. They also buy patents from and sell them to, other corporations and they also 'assign' them to other corporatio Here you are talking about three different things: owning, holding, and assigning. Are you saying that an owner of a corporation is the same as the corporate entity itself? Your argument is confusing and I don't agree with your thinking here Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 18:51:53 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Gerry Subject: One Thing You Might Do Message: I'm pretty sure about this but can't say for certain, but I think the name of the INVENTOR of the thing patented, no matter who 'holds' the patent, is supposed to be available to the public. I have a client who controls inventions of its employees, but I think they have to disclose to the Patent Office who the inventor is, and that is public information. So, I think you could prove that Maharaji (Prem Pal Rawat) did NOT invent the watch that was patented. If you did a patent search for 'inventor' under 'Rawat' and nothing came up, I think that would prove M DIDN'T didn't invent the watch, even though that's what he is implying by saying he 'holds' the patent. I guess you should do a search for 'Maharaji' as well. Then why don't you send an e-mail to his website, saying you did a search for 'inventor' and he didn't show up? Ask why he is misrepresenting himself as an inventor when he isn't and that we intend to publicize the fact that he is puffing his resume. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 19:02:00 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: JW Subject: One Thing You Might Do Message: So, I think you could prove that Maharaji (Prem Pal Rawat) did NOT invent the watch that was patented. If you did a patent search for 'inventor' under 'Rawat' and nothing came up, I think that would prove M DIDN'T didn't invent the watch, even though that's what he is implying by saying he 'holds' the patent. I guess you should do a search for 'Maharaji' as well. Ahhhhhhhhhhh finally a breakthrough here. I did exactly this and this was exactly my point: rawat didn't invent anything which has a patent. Now if he ''holds'' a patent on something through another entity this is a different story and I don't know how I could research that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 14:55:26 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: John Subject: I disagree, John Message: Not to be the party pooper, but what does M's mechanical aptitude have to do with the price of eggs in china? Sory, John, but I think it's quite germane to what we're doing here. First, if by chance Maharaji's lying about any of this -- even doing some garden-variety 'resume inflation' -- that speaks volumes. He's just another con man obsessed with status. Second, you have to remember that these are the credentials Maharaji's hoping to impress with. You know, for a guy who decries others' minds and intellectual achievements, this little putz does all that he can to grab his bit of absurd glory. And this from the transcendent Lord of the Universe no less! In fact, that's his natural gift! That's actually where his love lies, in gadgets and technology etc. You got the 'gift' part right. Whether he has patents is not relevant, imho, to be the reason we started this forum. Again, it is if he lies or misleads. I mean, what if Maharaji merely holds a patent that someone gave him (you can do that, you know)? What if he had some partners in the project? Doesn't it seem slimey to not credit them? And besides, why is he telling us this? If these things are irrelevant, don't blame ex's for mentioning them. Why would Maharaji bring them up in the first place? It's like Ron Hubbard's claim that he was a war hero. He looked like an asshole bragging about it, PLUS it was a lie to begin with. I mean if any of this stuff was really important, true or interesting, don't you think Maharaji's give a little more info, possibly a trail by which someone could follow up a bit? What was the patent for? If it's worth mentioning, why not spell it all out? My guess is that the full story isn't nearly as impressive. Is that a big deal? Maybe not if you're dealing with salespeople. I've always thought that the greatest disproof of Maharaji's claims is his obvious human nature. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 15:09:23 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: I've solved it! Message: Of course it's germaine, and I took John's post as 'tongue-in-cheek.' Have I misunderstood a post? Again? Jeesh, my psychic batting average is dropping fast. John, you were kidding, right? My solution to the mystery of why there is no record of M's watch patent and Jim has provided the clue. I mean, what if Maharaji merely holds a patent that someone gave him (you can do that, you know)? Goober, in his infinity modesty and generosity assigned the patent and its rights to some needy premie. What a guy! What a god! Forgive me Lord for ever doubting You! Orlando, forgive me and thank you for getting me back on track to the Lotus Feet. JSCA Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 16:20:35 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: gerry Subject: you...again Message: Gerry, what in the world are you talking about? i have never heard M. brag about some watch patent...he does talk about his watches but i never heard him say HE made them... by the way, my pride in him has nothing to do with watches... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 16:26:37 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Orlando Subject: Hey Orlando... Message: How long have you been a follower of M? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 16:45:51 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: John Subject: Hey Orlando... Message: I received K. on july 16 1973 and i have been practicing ever since Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 16:57:24 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Orlando Subject: Aha I beat you! Message: I 'received Knowledge' in early May of '73. That's why I'm ahead of you now. So why are you proud of him? Do you think he did a good job with the ashrams? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 00:13:41 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: John Subject: Aha Message: I was a november 73 cult inductee. Jim's points are right on target. Rawat wanted real wide seats for his plane so the deca shop guys had to design one. It was called the 'elephant chair' and they put a patent on it and sold it for some years after making the first few for the ultimate one. I suppose that is one of his inventions. A plane seat suitable for the ultimate ruler. The supreme soul also had a big thing for watches and had hundreds. Probably a couple thousand by now. Only the best and most expensive. I looked at the house plans on site and I think there are places near and in the bedroom that look like storage places for the crown and a watch collection and the malas and other god almighty bric a brac. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 09:28:26 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: John Subject: not really... Message: 'cause i am still practicing! (just kidding) i am proud of him because of his courage. he had the courage (and still does) to change things when necessary. Ashrams were one of the things he had to change. btw, i lived in the ashram till they closed and i had a great time while i was there. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 23:18:13 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: gerry Subject: At a boy gerry!! Message: Goober, in his infinity modesty and generosity assigned the patent and its rights to some needy premie. What a guy! What a god! Don't laugh gerry... you might actually be on the right track here. Look, if M actually owned the patent himself, when the opportunity arises to capitalize on it(eg. let's say by selling the patent to an interested buyer) then he has to pay taxes on the financial windfall. In his tax bracket, that would be a fortune. BUT if the patent is placed in the hands of a premie/ or premie company in a much lower tax bracket than m, then less taxes are paid on the deal... (and that has been really a key PRINCIPLE in m building his financial empire- to pay no, or as little taxes as possible)...The premie/premie company would then pay the taxes, deduct that tax payment from the balance as a repayment for themselves, and the rest goes to m totally tax free in the form of a GIFT. That's why I was curious if he had placed any patents or trademarks in the possession of Amtext.(Although I should have guessed not, because Amtext is in a high enough tax bracket as it is.) If m has gone on record saying he has a watch patent, I'll trust, that yes he did invent something there. But legally,(on paper) its probably been assigned to someone else for tax reasons, and should there be a payoff, it'll come back to m as a 'gift'. Thanks gerry, for that Amtext search. Later. Nim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 23:34:40 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Nim Subject: At a boy gerry!! Message: Hi Nim, I seriously doubt Goober invented anything that would be profitable commercially. He deals in ephemera and myth, the stuff of cult profit making. He may have a design which could be potentially patentable as a design patent, but nobody but cult members would be interested in investing in it or buying the end product. I do agree with your assessment, however, if he actually had anything of commercial worth to offer the world, he would have his lawyers work out a tax dodge using some hapless premie, Yeah, that sound right. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 15:28:40 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Jim Subject: How dare you disagree with me! Message: Look the whole thing is laughable, like his mentioning he attended St. Joseph's Academy. How many people mention on their resume where they went to elementary school?! But my point is that he was always interested in cars, planes, and watches. And it's totally concievable that his natural mechanical aptitude resulted in a patent. And that if he has a watch patent, who the fuck cares? It just seems sad to me that we want to deny M this one claim to fame. Let him have his watch patent! For crying out loud, the guy loves watches. OKay? He loves to play around with them, he's always talking about them, and so he wanted to make this world a better place, he wanted to provide a timely gift for mankind, and he came up with a watch patent. What does this watch patent do? Jim, email him for us and try to find out the details of his watch patent. Maybe his special watch can be programmed to go off at 15 minute intervals so you can be sure to practice Knowledge correctly. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 15:34:30 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: John Subject: How dare you disagree with me! Message: John, I know it's hard to face this cruel truth: there is no watch patent awarded to his Lardness. You'll just have to learn to live with it. Otherwise it would be on the database. It is not important in and of itself. But it shows his willingness to lie. That's my only point. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 15:58:15 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Gerry Subject: a timely message within Message: Look, I followed this bozo for 9 years. I was really looking forward to being able to tell people that the guy I followed had some talent for something! You know even a watch patent is better than nothing, right? 'Yes, the guru I followed in my youth was a veritable genius at time. He could look at his watch and immediately without any hestiation tell you what time it was. And you know what's really incredible? He actualy has a patent for a watch! Yeah, my old guru sure did have it together when it came to timepieces.' And yet Gerry, you insist on taking even this meager pleasure away from me. Thanks pal, thanks a lot. You're just so damned negative all the time! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 15:38:07 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: John Subject: But John.... Message: John: It's not the 'watch patent,' but the fact that he LIED about having one in the first place. Patent searches turn up nothing. So, does he have a watch patent or is he doing what he does best.... LIE! I know, I know, he did it in private so it really isn't a lie and isn't any of our business..... remind us of anyone????? he he he :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 16:37:50 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mike/John Subject: Tami's innermost thoughts Message: Hey, Maharaji is above the rules, ok? He can't be bothered playing by the worldly rules--that's all maya anyway. Hey did God have to get a patent when he made the sky and the daffodils? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 16:53:53 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: Yes, he DID get a patent! Message: Helen: You silly, silly person. When god created the universe, he took out the very first patent. He documented his deed in the bible (patent application number 0000000001)... jeez can't we remember anything????? he he he :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 17:04:41 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Helen Subject: You mean Tammy? Message: 'Hey did God have to get a patent when he made the sky and the daffodils?' Helen, that is just so beautiful! Please don't stop! I just never really thought of it like that before. I mean, wow! It's like all of us are just like so stuck in our human idiot-syncrasies, you know? I mean people are just so 'in their minds' you know? Like, there's that feeling and it's just soooo beautiful, and yet we want to think about it, you know? We want to analyze it and weigh it and understand it, but like, it's beyond all that. and whenever we try to think about it, it's like we're pissing on God, you know? It's like we're raising on psychic legs and just letting it all out on poor old god, and I mean what the hell did God do? I mean, did God have to get a patent when he made the sky and the daffodils? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 17:14:14 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: John/Mike Subject: You mean Tammy? Message: I am typing for Tami because her spelling is atrocious. Now she wants to tell you both that she is really really saddened by this website & that you all are going to come crawling back to Maharaji one day and that he will forgive us!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 18:03:56 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: John Subject: How dare you disagree with me! Message: What does this watch patent do? Jim, email him for us and try to find out the details of his watch patent. I reckon he might have only designed an EV logo for a watch (I vaguely recall there being one on sale at Amaroo but can't remember as there was such an abundance of merchandise to get my head and wallet around) which he maybe registered as a design/trademark and that's why you can't find any patent records on it. Anyway, just a thought as I was told the EV Crest he designed with the 4 Knowledge symbols in it has been registered. And besides, I imagine it wouldn't be hard to change the design of a watch even slightly and get some sort of protection for the design. Like you, I'd be curious to see what, if any special features it has. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 20:31:56 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: GERRY Subject: wrong... Message: I always heard the patents were under someone else's name. Try Linda Gross. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 21:14:34 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Zac Subject: Nada on Linda Gross Message: Any others you might want me to search? Goober supposedly has a ''patent on a watch.'' It would be on the database if it existed. Christ, I even found a patent my brother registered. I vaguely heard about it years ago, but there it was, clear and accessible as day. Where's Goober's? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 21:35:12 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Nada on Linda Gross Message: Yeah, Let's see who would he trust? Nobody living. Marolyn Johnson, Monica Lewis he..he, I thought Linda would be a good guess as she's one of his lawyers. I heard he invented a red mercury filled stress bolt after the Chicago crash of the DC 10 in 81? Was supposed to allow easier inspection of the aircraft before takeoff. Can you check for this item specifically. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 23:18:15 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Zac Subject: Nada on Linda Gross Message: Yeah, Let's see who would he trust? Nobody living. Marolyn Johnson, Monica Lewis he..he, I thought Linda would be a good guess as she's one of his lawyers. Try 'Jagdeo' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 00:18:41 (EST)
From: Try -Wahadamar-purevoice- Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: -Any guesses JM?(nt) Message: laskdjf Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 00:27:41 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Try -Wahadamar-purevoice- Subject: -Any guesses JM?(nt) Message: I'm not J-M, but I would guess a trust or a corporation that M owns. It wouldn't be in his own name, I would bet. Moreover, as I said above, the FAQ doesn't say M invented any watch, in fact, it clearly makes a distinction between the invention of aircraft stuff and then that he 'holds' a watch patent. He may have been given the patent or bought it. And if he 'holds' it, it would be through some other entity like a corporation or trust, the name of which you can only guess at. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 10:28:59 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: n To: Try -Wahadamar-purevoice- Subject: AMTEXT = TEXTMART Message: I've discovered that Amtext's trademark is really Textmart. There is also another one I can't remember, I'll post it tomorrow or tonight. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 12:08:35 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: AMTEXT = TEXTMART Message: J-M, I did a trademark search for ''textmart'' and non exists. Guess they like to be incognito. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 13:30:26 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: gerry Subject: AMTEXT = TEXTMART Message: I've done a search on some search-engines on the web a few months ago, and I've found some web-sites owned by Textmart books buyers. I don't know if they still exist on the web. Maybe they've closed the business altogether, like they did for NSA. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 03:39:55 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Orlando Subject: 100% lie Message: I've been DOING EV's statistics MYSELF for years, according to Visions' way! I know what I'm talking about, YOU DON'T ! Have you been involved in EV? doing what? Gail & other recent exes will confirm m's counting system! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 11:54:01 (EST)
From: Cult Member Email: None To: Whom It May Concern Subject: wrong... Message: I'm proud of him too! And those numbers he gets, where do you think he gets them, JM? From his astral flying machine? Not. People in the different cities send in the statistics, and he receives them and puts them all together in one report. If there is any deception going on, it's on the part of the premies (probably unintentional) sending in the information in a manner which gets confused. I am very proud of Maharaji and if he asked all of us to wear white t-shirts every Monday saying 'CULT MEMBER' in magic marker every Monday to the gym and shopping mall, hey, I'd do it and be proud too. What's he is doing, what he is offering, and what it means to us who partake is PURELY GOLDEN and nothing less. And nothing you can say or do can taint that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 12:00:01 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Cult Member Subject: M's confused by his premies? Message: If there is any deception going on, it's on the part of the premies (probably unintentional) sending in the information in a manner which gets confused. You mean the Lord gets confused by his followers? Now I'M confused!!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 12:11:23 (EST)
From: Cult Member Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: JM's confused by cult members? Message: Cute, Michael. What, you thought he was a Lord and not a human being? He is a human being. He is 100% human being, with just one very special facet in that he is also the Living Master. I know that's hard for some non-cult members to grasp. How can he possibly be able to do what he is doing and be human TOO? It's amazing, I know. Truly amazing. I would think that anyone who does what he is doing (what he has done, what he is doing now, and what he will be doing) could not possibly be human. It's just too beautiful, too incredible, too wonderful and too amazing. Well, now let's add to the amazement: YES!!!! He's human too! Ain't Life Grand? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 13:33:13 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Cult Member Subject: Mindblowing! Message: We'll never understand m's glory & lila, it's beyond understanding brother. We really need this to get out of our minds. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 09:06:51 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: 7) What ABOUT 'world peace'? Message: 'Over 71,300 people have received Knowledge since 1995, more than 60,400 of them from Maharaji personally in 75 sessions. In 1998 alone, Maharaji imparted Knowledge to 20,000 people.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 18:20:04 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: Jim Subject: 7) What ABOUT 'world peace'? Message: more than 60,400 of them from Maharaji personally in 75 sessions I received Knowledge from him via a video in 1995 - so do you think that counts as personally? We were all waiting for him to come and sit in the spotlighted chair, but he never showed up - must have been doing something else at the time (cognac tasting/Monica?). The instructors all told us that it was still Maharaji giving us Knowledge, even if it was a couple of big video screens. To this day, I wonder where he was that day. I knew he was in town for this event..... 'In 1998 alone, Maharaji imparted Knowledge to 20,000 people.' Yeah, but let's see how many of those 20,000 hang around once they've realised that Knowledge is a total over-hyped illusion. Maharaji's mirage - that's what his Knowledge should be called. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 09:08:42 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: 8) What should I tell people? Message: 'Maharaji does not recommend any particular lifestyle or religion. His teachings are independent of lifestyle and religion.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 11:20:57 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Jim Subject: 8) lie to them of course! Message: independent of all those religions that dont think prem rawat is the master of life and the 'purevoice'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 18:45:57 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: Jim Subject: 8) What should I tell people? Message: 'Maharaji does not recommend any particular lifestyle or religion. His teachings are independent of lifestyle and religion.' Utter utter bullshit. Premiedom is its own bleeding lifestyle and religion which increase and change the further down the path to premiedom you go - and beside there's hardly any room for other religions and lifestyles if you want to be a 'good' premie, such is the demand on your time and headspace. Mind you, a friend of my ex-partner's became a Scientologist as well as a premie in recent years. Wonder how he juggled it all and how Ron L and Maharaji squared up against each other.... Who's lifestyle didn't change as soon as they became an aspirant? Obviously 70's premies underwent a massive lifestyle change, but wouldn't you also say that foregoing a normal social/working life for an evening/weekend of siting in a dark room watching a video of the Big M for 3-4 times a week for 8 months of brainwashing with Knowledge Lite doesn't also necessitate a lifestyle change? My whole lifestyle changed dramatically than it ever had before, because of his 'religion' while an aspirant/premie - so he can go and take his sentence above and shove it up his date where it will feel so at home. Hey notice, that even though this is supposedly his website, he's slipped back into the ole third person addressing aspect for his FAQ, so as to give it the air of some sort of outside authorisation and respectability! Yuk! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 09:12:10 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: 9) How do I know it's a cult? Message: 'Volunteers around the world who appreciate Maharaji's teachings have organized their efforts through nonprofit organizations in their individual countries whose purposes are to promote his teachings, distribute materials related to his teachings, organize the conferences that he attends, and provide necessary logistical support.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 09:13:28 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: 10) What does he tell the IRS? Message: 'The nonprofit organizations that support Maharaji's work are funded by voluntary contributions only. There is no charge for attending events or video presentations or for receiving the Knowledge that Maharaji offers. At some events, advanced registration for pre-assigned seats is offered at a nominal processing fee to cover administrative costs.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 09:14:36 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: 11) What's the party line? Message: 'Maharaji receives no fees, honoraria, compensation, or benefits of any kind from any of the organizations that support his work. These organizations pay only for documented expenses related to his attendance at events they sponsor.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 09:35:32 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Jim Subject: It makes me sick (nt) Message: - makes me vomit! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 10:16:00 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Happy Subject: Here's the correct version Message: Maharaji attended St. Joseph's Academy in Dehra Dun, India. He later graduated as God in human form and conned a lot of naive ex-hippies into giving their lives to him during the 1970's. He has advanced skills in talking bullshit and frightening the life out of sincere people. He has invented a number of fear inducing applications including making people believe that their own mind is the devil and that they will suffer if they don't follow him. He is also a successful private investor with all the money he has conned out of people by pretending their donated money was going into the propogation of divine knowledge and the bringing of world peace. He has contributed to the success of several startup companies in various industries, all of which are all owned by him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 18:54:13 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Here's the correct version Message: I love it. Well said! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 13:50:05 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: Happy Subject: then stop reading... Message: Happy nobody wants you to be sick... by the way, nobody is forcing you to read something that makes you feel unconfortable...stay away from it! hope you feel better now Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 14:14:39 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Orlando Subject: then stop reading... Message: Orlando, I know you are a person for whom English is a second language, (a fact to which you alluded when someone laughed at your misuse of the language and you played the race card, remember?) BUT do you understand that your master is a liar? There is no rawat watch patent. What do think of that? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 16:25:31 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: gerry Subject: then stop reading... Message: Gerry please read my other post on the subject of a watch patent...i for one have not heard him speak of a watch patent. Did you read this on this forum? i have no idea if he has a patent or not...and i don't really care... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 16:33:38 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: gerry Subject: my answer to Gerry Message: Gerry, you write: 'There is no rawat watch patent. What do think of that?' 1) i don't think anything of that. Frankly, my dear, i don't give a damn 2) For argument's sake (optional question), how do you know there is no patent? did you check all the 'patent registries' (or whatever they are called) around the world to check if he does or not? 3) even if he does have a patent, you will still think that he is a liar. You are convinced of this and there is nothing I or anyone else can say to convince you otherwise... so let's not waste our time in fruitless arguments, ok? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 16:54:03 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Orlando Subject: my answer to Gerry Message: Come on Orlando, you know damn well he would register his invention with the US patent office. He's a US citizen, right? This is one of the largest commercial markets in the world, right? Surely a savvy business man like the Perfect Hamster would take advantage of this. The website for the database is posted in twice in this thread. There is no watch patent.. Like I said to John, the important point is that he lied. Can you face that fact? This is a salient point because it is one which could be DEFINITELY decided one way or the other. If he has a patent, he could easily prove it and I would profusely apologize to you and him. Why don't you ask him what the number is on his patent? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 17:23:13 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: orlando Subject: Here, I'll even help you Message: Orlando, You can cut and paste this to send to Maharaji@maharaji.org There's no copyright or patent or nothin, so you can just use it free, no problemo. (A little Latino speak for ya.) Dear Mister Hamster Sir, There's these nasty ex-premies over at that website you don't want us to read but I do anyway. Anyway, they said your claim to have a patent on a watch of some sort is a lie. I countered with the stunningly brilliant argument that they haven't searched the entire world for this patent. But now they say it's probably a US patent but it's not there. Please tell me what the patent number is so I can show these meanies how brilliant YOU really are and how proud I am of you. Thanks in advance for answering this as I know you answer all questions regardless of where they come from, premies, ex-premies, the press, wherever. PS I love you a lot although I've never met you and you don't know I exist. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 17:29:19 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Here, I'll even help you Message: Gerry, On that note, I'm off to work. Thanks for a wonderful laugh. Just hilarious, beyond description. 'Perfect' therapy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 21:57:32 (EST)
From: Marshall Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Here, I'll even help you Message: Good one Gerry! Best laugh I've had all week! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 19:17:59 (EST)
From: TD Email: None To: Jim Subject: 11) What's the party line? Message: or benefits of any kind from any of the organizations that support his work So is having a new pentagon shaped house built on Amaroo so that you have somewhere new to stay 'cause you don't like the existing house premies built for you, not a benefit that you receive Maharaji???? Will other premies be able to stay in your room and sleep in your bed when you're not there, just like other employees in other companies can share certain company assets like a corporate apartment! You are so lucky you've had premies set you up the way you have, so as to avoid paying things like a mega Fringe Benefits Tax for all these kind of entitlements. Mind you, you wouldn't really care if EV did have to pay tax for entitlements like this, would you - as long as you're comfy in your search for 'absolute quality' and get whatever luxury you want. And you're so canny the way that those cash gifts you get at Darshan around the world and the ones that get deposited straight into your account, can slide freely underneath sentences like that and not be referred to at all, even though every premie knows that that's the way its done. God, you make me sick. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 08:44:22 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: I'll take the Krishna crown Message: [from ABC news] CREEPY COLLECTIBLES You’ll never drive O.J.’s white Ford Bronco or stack your groceries in Jeffrey Dahmer’s refrigerator. But get your checkbook ready. The next piece of gory nostalgia is about to hit the marketplace. Sometime in May, the bunk beds where 39 Heaven’s Gate cult members committed mass suicide in March 1997 are about to hit the auction block. Two surviving Heaven’s Gate members wanted the property. But a judge ruled that San Diego could auction it off to recoup some of the $100,000 it laid out in funeral and burial expenses. Among the related items that San Diego’s Public Administrator plans on unloading: various drawings of alien beings and an anthology of Heaven’s Gate writings entitled “Last Chance To Evacuate Earth Before It’s Recycled. “I’d put the bunk beds at $1,000,” says Michael Kronick of Startifacts in Minneapolis. “But [cult leader] Marshall Applewhite’s could go for $5,000, maybe more. Horror theme parks and museums are sure to be interested in such items, Kronick says. Certainly, if Michael Jackson could purchase the Elephant Man’s bones, there’s also a private collector’s market for almost anything ghoulish. “I’d say I’d draw the line at items from Ted Bundy or the Unabomber,” says Kronick. “I tried to buy O.J.’s white Bronco. But O.J. was found innocent. And besides, with O.J., it was more the spectacle of the thing. Startifacts supplies memorabilia for Hard Rock Cafe and Planet Hollywood. But Kronick handles some bizarre stuff, including the bloodstained pants Marvin Gaye wore when he was shot to death, sold to him by Gaye’s sister. He also purchased Kurt Cobain’s heroin spoon. “People sell Hitler autographs. But I’d never do that,” he says. “That’s sick. P.S.: All Startifacts items come with certificates of authenticity. Here’s one: “This hair was cut from Elvis Presley’s head by ‘Gil’ his hairdresser at Graceland.” (signed) Jimmy Velvet, president and chairman, Elvis Presley Museum, Inc. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 11:29:22 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Jim Subject: will you take lord DNA? Message: I am happy to report that I found the who is gmj tape finally this weekend. I went through everything and it turned out to be in a box of christian and buddhist stuff left over from when I was researching those fields. tape and dna are 'in the mail' as lawyers say. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 05:56:51 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: Everyone Subject: Beragons & common sense Message: Just to continue what Gail mentioned and about to go inactive below; that Maharaji banned beragons because of premies travelling through airports getting strange looks from baggage handlers etc. I know I'm repeating myself but this banning of beragons (a T shaped device for supporting the arms in meditation) by Maharaji did finally put the last nail in the coffin for me regarding having any respect for him and his cult. How out of touch can Maharaji get? Most people are not travelling through airports or staying at hotels every day. Most of us live at home in a house or flat (apartment) and only travel now and then. I'm sorry but I am still amazed at the sheer stupidity of Maharaji banning beragons. If Maharaji was so worried about his devotees posessing bits of wood that might have looked a bit funny in airports then anyone with any brains could invent a collapsable beragon that folded up neatly into a small bag. God, the mind blowing dumbness of Maharaji's cult amazes me. Jean-Michel says that Maharaji pays management consultants $1,000 per day to structure Elan Vital. Look Maharaji; I'd do it for half that and I'd do a better job. We used to do it ourselves back in the old DLM days in the early seventies. One thing Maharaji used to say really IS true, i.e. that common sense is uncommon. He didn't even know what he was saying there, did he. By dismissing all his former devotees as his enemies and taking in expensive management consultants (in Britain their fee is 1,000 POUNDS per day) he has demonstrated a complete lack of vision and thought. But will he see it? Pigs might fly. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 06:37:51 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Beragons & common sense Message: I feel exactly like you, Sir D, about beragons! I think the beragon is a useful tool when practising meditation. It was absolutely stupid of him to ban them. Then again, it goes to show that he obviously did not meditate himself! Ok, I can see that premies sometimes got almost a little fetishistic about their beragons. But doing the techniques without a beragon is tiresome. Also the other points you make, about his senseless throwing away of money on useless, expensive cosultants - I could not agree more. I'm sorry to say, but M really is not a very intelligent person. Everything he does proves it. He can't run his show, he cannot write poetry. And, this pig does not seem to learn how to fly. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 08:58:23 (EST)
From: Stevei Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Collapseable B+ 1k Consultants Message: 1K is about right for a Management Consultant....but I guess if he went for the top notch..Anderson type of Guys ..he would be paying 2-3 type more... He would need them for the following: 1. Organisational Re-engineering (would u believe it) 2. Financial Management 3. HR and Motivation Management I guess M has a few people on his payrole...and he would need to know how cost effective they are... Baragons...I love them....One of the theories about how ancient knowldge is ...are the pics of Rama sitting with a Baragon...when premies see that..they smile cause they 'know' what it is for...and the rest of the world does not...hehehe I used to have a two piece Baragon...and somebody did invent a collapsable one.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 20:43:21 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Stevei Subject: Collapseable B+ 1k Consultants Message: I'd forgotten about that picture of Rama. I think I could design a beragon with a telescopic leg and fold-up arm and it could be packed neatly into a custom made bag and called a Travel Beragon. Not that there will ever be a market for it now, except to ex-premies who still meditate. My brother-in-law has had a lot of experience with management consultants. He's always coming out with new buzz words and phrases and doing management courses which usually entail something like hill walking or canoeing for some obscure reason. I think it's supposed to instill leadership and team abilities. Anyone can become a management consultant. And I guess they're usually failed managers and businessmen. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 22:18:47 (EST)
From: Denise Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Collapseable Berragons Message: Sorry to tell you this Sir David, but the invention's already been done. I knew several people in the first community I lived in in the early 80's that had collapsable berragons. They were very nice, the part you lean on had a thick pad covered in vinyl like chairs have and the pole that came out of the bottom was aluminum, i think, and came out or folded up and was actually in two parts so you could adjust the length of the pole, like tent poles. I guess that would be most hand in going between music and light because my arms are at a different height for each. They also had a little drawstring fabric bag that matched the color of the vinyl that they could be carried in. I thought most people had those, though mine was wood and the pole was seperate and it screwed in the bottom. I always wanted the adjustable kind, but soon they were banned before I got around to getting one. Oh, and you are now supposed to use pillows. I use several bed pillows stacked on top of each other and it works quite well and is comfortable, but a berragon would be handy, too. Maybe I should keep my eye out for one on eBay! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 09:53:54 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Misinterpretation Message: Jean-Michel says that Maharaji pays management consultants $1,000 per day to structure Elan Vital. I've never said that. These consultants' fees are paid by the premies attending their training. I've paid for it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 10:23:01 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Misinterpretation Message: Oh that's alright then, Jean-Michel. I was worried that Maraji might be wasting that hard earned donated money on those management consultant sharks. Now I can breathe a sigh of relief. Because I was just thinking about how many gold toilets you could get for one week's consultancy fees. Now I know he's not wasting his money, I'll go back to sleep. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 16:36:33 (EST)
From: God Email: None To: Sir David Subject: the truth about beragons Message: My wayward son banned beragons because I told him to. You see it has to do with the subtle divine vibrations within inside of each human being. One should not be physically in contact with anything when contacting these vibrations. (btw, as a free tip: For best results, get naked when you meditate. I have told my wayward son this but he's such a prude, he's afraid to mention it.) When meditating on a beragon the user tends to lean heavily on it with the arms. This causes interference with the divine flow of energy. Instead of merging with that flow, the flow gets dissipated and corrupted through the beragon. Hence the user is deprived of the full import of sensing those divine vibrations. For instance, when doing music technique with a beragon you are in fact listening to the vibration within the beragon as filtered through your elbows. Don't they teach kids anything these days? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 17:04:58 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: God Subject: the truth about God Message: Oh God, I am seeing now that I have completely misunderstood you. Below, you had written The divine harmonies are generated on the right side of the brain, hence they are louder through the right ear. I reacted with all the confusion and misguided negativity of an ex-premie. I mocked my teacher, my guide, my master. Now I read your generous explanation of why beragons were banned and I am ashamed of myself. I am overwhelmed with feelings of total inadequacy and I shall punish myself for my brutal lack of gratitude. If you were close to me I could throw myself at your feet and beg for your divine mercy. I commit to you and shall only listen to those who see the light and declare their 'pride' in you. I should have N-E-V-E-R D-O-U-B-T-E-D Y-O-U! Can you ever forgive me? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 17:24:41 (EST)
From: God Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: Get a grip and... Message: Calm down, please. Forgive you for what? There's nothing to forgive you for, after all I made you who you are, you certainly had nothing to do with it. Any deficiences you perceive in yourself are an insult to me, your creator! My child, rise up and walk proud. Thou art healed! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 00:25:09 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: God Subject: Get a grip and... Message: Aw, shucks, thanks God. What a guy! Girl? You really are somethin'. It's sure nice to have you around to answers those tough questions. To accept me, as I am, mind and all. Of course you do. I'm exactly what you created. I think I was misinformed somewhere down the line. Hey, 'mind if I pass the hat and buy you a jet? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 05:53:54 (EST)
From: Stevei Email: None To: God Subject: Sorry Sir...u got it WRONG Message: Actually if you want me to explain how a Baragon works then I will give you all the fine details.... OK....Its all to do with A Resonance Cavity...GOT THE BUZZ WORD.... A Baragon ....because of its length....75.678901 cms acts as a resonance cavity...for the waves being emitted inside your body when you meditate....from your brain that is...these waves ocillate in the Baragon and are amplified and phase shifted...but only if you have Muslei for breakfast...if you have Earl Grey tea as well....there is no Phase Shift...only Amplification...which means its a different kind of High... The Amplification factor varies...from -550 to 2.0xE+5 which means you either get a terrible headich if you have a negative amplification factor...or if u have a positive one...you could be running after your hubby if you are Denise... The Phase Shift is a bit more complicated...that would require further posting... by for now Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 22:30:48 (EST)
From: Denise Email: None To: God Subject: Dear God... Message: About meditating naked, it just wouldn't work for me. You see, I have this problem sometimes when doing the third technique and don't need to get any more distracted... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 23:45:39 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Denise Subject: Dear God... Message: You're a good sport, Denise. Wish you could shake the cult. You have a nice sense of humor and sound like a neat person. Oh well. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 11:44:45 (EST)
From: Cult Member Email: None To: gerry Subject: Cult Smoothies Message: That's fine, Gerry. We'll enjoy our life and in return you get to call us cult members. This name calling thing just doesn't fly. Cult, cult, cult. Sorry, but M's crowd just doesn't live up to that name. But now that I see you all calling me a cult member so much, the strangest thing: I'm beginning to enjoy the cult word. Sounds kind and mysterious and sexy, in a sort of 'a la Jerry Springer' kind of a way. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 12:17:54 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Cult Member Subject: Cult Smoothies Message: Is this Denise? If you look at the attributes of a cult, you'll see that M's organization does indeed fit the description. Is 'cult member' a derogatory name? No, it is merely a descriptive one. I'd be OK with you guys, I guess, if you didn't recruit. But that's not the way it is. So, you get opposition. And who better to oppose you than former cult members. You can call me a former cult member if you wish. It's a true and fitting description. But nothing to be proud of, however. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 22:49:37 (EST)
From: Denise Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Cult Smoothies Message: It's not me, I always use my name. And besides, I wouldn't have said 'you guys', it's 'y'all'! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 17:32:20 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Cult Member Subject: Cult Smoothies Message: Cult Member, You said, 'but M's crowd just doesn't live up....' (emphasis mine) These are your words. What does it reveal? If not a cult, then what? Fan club? Cheers, Miloochie BTW, I've used the word cult for the first time these last two weeks, here, and verbally with someone I love. It still creates a big lump in my throat when I do. It's tough. It's difficult. It hurts. The truth...it hurts like hell. It's also a part of finally changing me in ways that I have been unable to improve myself for many, many years. I'm finding the end results to be more of what I wanted from K in the first place, then what I was truly experiencing (inner angst) for the last twenty-five years while attempting my best to a part of 'M's crowd.' Just my 2 cents. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 10:34:42 (EST)
From: Cult Member Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: Crowds of cult members Message: Like I said, go ahead, call 'it' a cult. I see Maharaji, and when I see Maharaji, I see crowds, and big ones. But I mean that in a good way. Is the human race a cult too? A club? A society? What's the point? Call it what you like. You tried it for that many years and you didn't like it? Very odd. Good luck finding your own perspective. You sound like a 'follower' type rather than someone who thinks for yourself, that you would stay with something that many years if it really did nothing for you. But that's probably not the case. You are probably suppressing a lot. Good luck to you, 'ex-cult member.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 11:07:50 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: Cult Member Subject: Crowds of cult members Message: What's the point? Call it what you like. You tried it for that many years and you didn't like it? Very odd. Good luck finding your own perspective. You sound like a 'follower' type rather than someone who thinks for yourself, that you would stay with something that many years if it really did nothing for you. But that's probably not the case. You are probably suppressing a lot. So Mil gets trashed for hangin' in there for years when it was unsatisfying. I get trashed for bailing out after a short while when I found the cult experience unsatisfying. Sort of a ''damned if you do, damned if you don't'' situation, isn't it, Cult Member? Can't win. But then, there are no winners in this cult. Except the BM, of course. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 11:21:01 (EST)
From: Jim Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Don't hurt his feelings, Ger! Message: Gerry, Where've you been? This kind of meanness is out of line, bro'. Let the premie be for God's sake. Maybe then this damn war can finally end and we can all get home for Christmas this year. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 05:02:33 (EST)
From: AJW Email: anthginn@yahoo.com To: Everyone Subject: 'Full Powers' Message: I came across a talk Maharaji gave in Delhi, in 1970, in what became known as the 'Peace Bomb Satsang'. Here's an extract, ' The great leaders think that I have come to rule and yes, they are right! I will rule the world, and just watch how I will do it! Even the lion and sheep will embrace each other. Has there been such a king before? Krishna was not such a king. Rama also was not such a king. There were lesser powers in Ram, there were lesser powers in Krishna, but I have come to the world with full powers.' Deluded or what? AJW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 06:14:23 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: AJW Subject: 'Full Powers' Message: The peace bomb hasn't quite worked out as M predicted, has it? I told my father in 1973 that by 1975 most of the world would have K , so I managed to share in the delusion for quite a while. In fact in our fervour for M and the hope that seemed to bring, we thrived on delusion. I remember a group of mahatmas-Padarthanand and Rajeswar were amongst them- saying that they didn't need to eat or sleep due to being holy mahatmas of M and that they only did it because everyone else did. I'm not quite sure when we all lowered our expectations, but I know there was a point when I realised that the people who had K were going to remain as a small group. By then I guess I was programmed, and intrinsically intertwined with M and K. I remember I used to think that the Peace Bomb was an amazing satsang and there were also all those stories about M appearing on the leaves of the trees at the programme-actually I think it was the whole family who appeared. I guess at 12 years old , and with his background, his delusion was understandable. I wonder about now, though. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 06:52:27 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: chr Subject: 'Full Powers' Message: Somebody mentioned in a recent thread that premies commonly thought - and were told - that BubbleGumji was Jesus, and M was God. This time, it was not only God sending his 'son', but coming himself, in full strength! As I told in my journey, I personally did not believe that everybody on the planet would receive K, not in year 1975, not in this lifetime, and I experienced the Houston Millenium as the anticlimax when this became obvious - perhaps it also became obvious then for the so called Holy Family. Millenium was the beginning of the end. It is worth notícing also that M said, at one early point, that in fact ANYBODY from the Holy Family could have served as the Satguru (Mata Ji, Bubblegumji, Raja Ji, Bhole Ji). He certainly would not agree with that statement anymore! I also find it intriguing, and perhaps partly to be an explanation, for M's early success, that he fulfilled at least two common dreams/expactations of young westerners at that point in time: a) the messianic myth, shared by Jews and Christians alike, which is latent within the whole Western culture, the dream of the saviour, the master, b) the general positive attitude towards Eastern mysticism at that time, promoted be the hippies, acid, the Beatles. These two factors added together. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 07:06:51 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Happy Subject: 'Full Powers' Message: It is worth notícing also that M said, at one early point, that in fact ANYBODY from the Holy Family could have served as the Satguru (Mata Ji, Bubblegumji, Raja Ji, Bhole Ji). What he probably meant here was that SOMEBODY was gonna. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 08:28:13 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Zac Subject: 'Full Powers' Message: Well, now two of them are satgurus... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 10:53:46 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Happy Subject: 'Full Powers' Message: Let's face it; a Millennium festival which was 27 years too early was a failure from the start. Maybe someone should have told him. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 15:21:15 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Sir David Subject: He's 'full' of something..(nt) Message: but it ain't powers.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 18:06:38 (EST)
From: Austin Powers Email: None To: Happy Subject: 'Full Powers' Message: Yeah, Baby! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 20:36:57 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Austin Powers Subject: 'Full Powers' Message: Anyone remember the glass of water story. Where a Mahatma had learned how to lift a glass of water with his mind. According to legend, he did it in front of Shri M once. So Shri M said I bet you can't do that again and he couldn't. Beware the Lord of the Universe he'll strip your powers dry. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 04:40:14 (EST)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: AJW Subject: The trouble with you lot... Message: ' The great leaders think that I have come to rule and yes, they are right! I will rule the world, and just watch how I will do it! Even the lion and sheep will embrace each other. Has there been such a king before? Krishna was not such a king. Rama also was not such a king. There were lesser powers in Ram, there were lesser powers in Krishna, but I have come to the world with full powers.' You ex's are always taking M's words out of their proper context and putting whatever interpretation you like on them. As Passin' Thru' so wisely put it, only an absolute idiot would believe that when Mr Rawat the meditation teacher made statements of this kind, that he meant liteally what he was saying. In fact, when he said 'I have come to the world with full powers', he actually meant...er... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 17:32:05 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: nigel Subject: Lion and sheep Message: Nigel: Yeah.... that's right.... like the 'lion and sheep' thing... He actually meant that gerry (lion) and shp (sheep) would give each other a hug someday.... NO, that can't be it!!! :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 11:56:48 (EST)
From: Cult Member Email: None To: AJW Subject: 'Full Powers' Message: Where can I get a copy of that satsang?! I love it!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 17:36:45 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: AJW Subject: 'Full Powers' Message: I thought that 'full powers' meant that all of his appliances (and, of course, the watches he patents) would be top of the line, complete with every feature. He doesn't appear to have full mental powers, and his creativity is a bit on the trite side. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 19:50:14 (EST)
From: Gail Email: None To: AJW Subject: Yup! I ain't seen the lion Message: and the lamb snuggling down together yet. He isn't a boy from the East anymore, is he? Notice that he never talks about going back to the old country to live. I think the full 64 powers MJ was referring to were his jet, the gold toilettes, the 64 windows that open simultaneously in Malibu, the cars, the 35 full-time slaves at his house, the swiss bank account at one million to the power of three, etc., etc., etc. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 01, 1999 at 21:59:50 (EST)
From: Popeye Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Who is not susceptible to M? Message: In your experience, have there been particular types of individuals not susceptible to the types of things M proposed or said are so? If so, what characteristics do they tend to be? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 00:26:02 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: Popeye Subject: Who is not susceptible to M? Message: I appreciate your thoughtful questions, as well as your actual anecdotal commentary (i.e. the story of your premie/ex-premie friends), but I think you are approaching us a little as strange anthropological specimens. We are that, but at the same time, you are as well, having already involved yourself enough through interaction to go ahead and tell us what you think about M and his cult. I am actually looking forward to non-premies participating, because the usual configuration of exes and stray premies results in little dialogue. Most of us exes really don't like M very much. We would like to have sane, intelligent, and (hopefully) objective discussion about M, but it's really not going to happen with premies. They are cultists! Please feel free to comment more and ask a little less, or at least a little less blatantly. We would be glad to tell you what we think but I, for one would like to hear more of what you think. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 02:19:16 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: Popeye Subject: Who is not susceptible to M? Message: Hi, again, Popeye Basically, anyone who is sincerely searching for 'truth' in their lives is susceptible to Maharaji. They would probably also be susceptible to a number of other things too that held the promise of Happiness, fulfillment etc, etc. (Maharaji would describe it as having a 'thirst'). So in answer to your question, the characteristic of someone who would NOT be susceptible to Maharaji, would be someone who believed that they were entirely contented with their life and was not 'thirsty' Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 07:15:45 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Popeye Subject: Who is not susceptible to M? Message: Well, that's a tricky question. I would prefer to state the question, who IS susceptible. I think most people could, providing that the circumstances are there. There are plenty of studies on people joining cults. In brief, most studies show that a) young people (age 17- 29) tend to join cults much more than older adults, b) people whose parents have had positive attitudes towards religion, but who themselves feel they cannot accept the religious convictions of their parents, are also susceptible, c) people who have had traumatic experiences recently (love-sorrows, deceased relatives, other difficult losses) are also susceptible. This is what the scientific literature suggests. Based on empiric findings. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 10:18:15 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Who is not susceptible to M? Message: Basically, anyone who is sincerely searching for 'truth' in their lives is susceptible to Maharaji. Mel, people with preconceived notions of the truth are susceptible to Maharaji. If Maharaji fits those notions they accept him. If not, they don't. So in answer to your question, the characteristic of someone who would NOT be susceptible to Maharaji, would be someone who believed that they were entirely contented with their life and was not 'thirsty' No, Mel. People who think their fulfillment is elsewhere are not susceptible to Maharaji. Many people have heard of Maharaji, listened to what he had to say and walked. He didn't fit their preconceived notions of what would make them happy. The rest of us got sucked into the cult. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 01, 1999 at 20:40:18 (EST)
From: Popeye Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Was/Is meditation useful? Message: Again I must qualify, I have no personal experience with Knowledge , I'm just interested. Is it correct to equate Knowledge with meditation? Or would this demean Knowledge in the minds of some individuals by establishing this equation? What would you attribute former prem's still considering Knowledge so valuable, if they do? Would(COULD?) those who say they have knowledge, whether former prems or current prems, say they could have learned Knowledge someplace else without M? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 01, 1999 at 20:57:26 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Popeye Subject: Was/Is meditation useful? Message: Yup. You can pick up a book and learn it. 'Knowledge', though, is the whole package--the 'surrender your life to Maharaji' package. Oops, now it's called 'having understanding'. The brainwashing is that the experience you are having is coming from none other but the little greasy man himself (as if you & he are connected by golden chords of love). This is why it's so hard for your premie friend to break away. It's a slick way to keep the money coming, that's all it is. The meditation is good in my opinion (if you can separate it out from one's former premie life). Others here have differing opinions. Keep the contact going with your premie friend. I do think it's possible for premies and non-premies to be friends. It is enormously helpful to premies to have a window into lives that are self-sufficiently happy (as opposed to 'blissed-out happy). Believe me, your premie friend is taking notes in his subconscious. You are influencing him in more ways than you may know. That's how it was for me Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 01, 1999 at 21:13:41 (EST)
From: Popeye Email: None To: Helen Subject: Is bliss=euphoria? Message: I hear the word bliss all the time. Is the essential role of knowledge/mediation to create bliss=euphoria? Is my bliss=euphoria an incorrect equation in the world of M? If an M follower said they did not achieve bliss/euphoria would it be considered a failure in terms of M's world? Do most followers of M feel and think they are achieving the same state in meditation? And if so do they ever ask each other how they are sure it is the same state? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 01, 1999 at 21:42:36 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Popeye Subject: Is bliss=euphoria? Message: You sure ask good questions. I don't know how much actual comparing and evaluating of the experience occurs between premies. Maybe in knowledge reviews, some of that comes out (a knowledge review would be between an initiator and a premie). There is a lot of group pressure that the experience is one of gratitude and wonderfulness and beauty all the time. There's a lot of hype in this trip. So people may be reluctant to come right out and say they are not having a good experience. See, the focus is on Guru Maharaji , so if you're not having a good experience it's because you 'don't have the correct UNDERSTANDING' (read: devotion, surrender) . Now I am am not a current premie and haven't been for a long time, but in the olden days we'd greet one another by saying Jai Sat Chit Anand which means 'Truth is the consciousness of bliss'. Enlightenment or god-realization meant not being attached to this worldly plane and just being attched to the feet of the guru, the guru who gives bliss. Does the guru give bliss? Many of us have had some pretty powerful experiences around Maharaji. Were they group-high induced? I honestly don't know and I don't care anymore. I honestly get more blissed out exercising, or laughing my head off with a bunch of friends or with my family, or being outdoors. The whole idea of pursuing bliss as a lifelong pursuit is very noxious to me now. I say this and yet, I still do experience euphoria from the meditation. Yes, the meditation is good, but I would never recommend knowledge to anyone, does that make sense? Knowledge is the whole package, the surrender part included,wheras the meditation is 4 techniques you can read in a book. They stimulate your pineal gland, make your brain happy. Bliss=-euphoria--yeah. A promised state of consciousness. A lot of folks here feel that GM was/is a failure because they were promised they would experience bliss all the time if they practiced knowledge long enough...a lot of folks mediated hours a day and didn't realize shit, except that they were wasting precious years. Shit, he promised he was the Lord of the Universe. Over promised, underdelivered Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 07:47:02 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Popeye Subject: meditation and bliss Message: I'll try to state my opinion to both youe questions (is meditation useful, and does bliss equal euphoria): Yes, I personally find meditation useful. I do not practise it exactly as M told, though, but I admit that I learned something from trying to do it the way he suggested. But, in general, I really think M. is a lousy teacher of meditation. He is in no way following up on his followers' development, and he does not at all take into consideration the fact that everybody needs individual tuition. That's why his followers don't develop at all. And the whole hype, the secrecy about the techniques, is disgusting. That's his way of trickying people to dedicate time and donate money to him. Bliss = euphoria? I'd say, yes and no. To me, the bliss I get from meditation clearly is different from the euphoria you get from let's say alcohol, grass, to me it reminds more about the effect of so called psychedelic drugs like peoyte, psilocybin mushroom, or acid - when these are working fine. But then, with any drug, I always felt that it was impure. The 'high' I personally get from meditation feels pure, correct, and has a usually less dramatic, but more lasting effect. After taking up meditation, I stopped doing drugs altogether (well, I enjoy a good wine or a cognac). But whether meditation works or not, has nothing to do with Maharji! In fact, I get much more out of it now than when I was a premie and try to practise as he suggested. Premie life was miserable. And, one thing which I personally want to stress (I notice that Helen always points that out, too): Getting 'high' from meditation really has nothing to do with spirituality! You can get really high, and still be an absolutely egomaniac and horrible person. Meditation might help you live more balanced life, yes. But if you, like M, commit adultery, deceive people, cheat them - that has absolutely nothing to do with spirituality. And, you cannot solve neither existential nor personal problems through meditation. To me, meditation is not 'holy'. That's one of the problems with Hindu religion in general, that it too strongly stresses the experience of 'samadhi', bliss, the experience of 'satchitanand'. In that sense, egotistic development is considered 'better' than compassion, charity, altruism. Anyone who spent time in India must have noticed this fact, and that is perhaps one of the reasons while India is in such a mess. Hinduism is a much more egocentric religion than for instance Buddhism, Christianity, or Judaism. On the other hand, the art of how to experience 'bliss' (or, reach 'samadhi') is develop to very high degree in certain branches of Hinduism (in Shivaism, particularly). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 08:25:47 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: all Subject: meditation and bliss Message: I wrote it in a hurry, sorry for the spelling mistakes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 05:05:58 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Popeye Subject: Is bliss=euphoria? Message: Dear Popeye, Upon reading your thread at the top of the forum I am just reading a few of your older threads for a bit while I get the wood stove going again. I am struck by the fact that you have known this premie for 20 years and I wonder if you have ever asked him/her this question. I sounds like you have not. I know of a group of mostly ex premies, all related but there is one premie still left among them. She has been 'in' for close to 30 yrs. I know she doesn't talk about it to any of her ex premie relatives but the most shocking thing to me is that she doesn't tell her children about it. She had them in the early years and they are in or near their 20's and know nothing about the guru, the meditation, nothing. It is sad, sad. Years ago, when I was involved at least we were proud of what we thought was the living lord, of the good deeds we did in our communities in the name of service to god. Now the only service that 'counts' is that directly serving the master, gak!, which includes money of course. I do still meditate but as I've noticed with lots of ex's we don't still do all 4 techniques and not in the way we were taught. It can be personalized now. I only use 2 techniques because those are the only 2 that ever worked for me. Others use the ones that worked for them. As for bliss vs. euphoria, the hour is not good for me to see the small print in the dictionary but I think of bliss and more intense than euphoria but that euphoria is more encompassing. I do notice a mellow and pleasurable kind of euphoria when I meditate long term but don't think of it as bliss, maybe bliss has more to do with the whole package of M's trip, devotion to him you know? Yuck. In thinking about your thread up top, if you can't/don't talk to your friend about all of this now I think you should be more careful in how you present information from the available web sites to your friend. I just saw a rerun Seinfield show were George does everything the opposite and his live works out great. It reminds me of Jim's post to you above about being sensitive. :) Good luck. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 01, 1999 at 19:02:17 (EST)
From: POPEYE Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Friends outside of Knowledge Message: If one is a follower of M, was it or is it difficult to maintain friends outside of M's influence? Did or does M suggest or directly say one should not make friends ouside of the M's circle? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 01, 1999 at 19:13:08 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: POPEYE Subject: Friends outside of Knowledge Message: I always had friend of all stripes when I was a premie. I am convinced it's what saved me from total spiritual and intellectual annhiliation. My friends cared enough about me to express concern when I was behaving like an idiot, or when I got off track with my own goals. I am forever indebted to these friends for not turning the other way when I was a lost soul, howling in the wilderness. I hope I can emulate them in my life today, by putting myself out when a friend is in trouble. Friendship is what we should be grateful for, not some freakaziod Guru. What's your story, Popeye? Are you/were you involved with the rugu? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 01, 1999 at 19:49:49 (EST)
From: Popeye Email: None To: Helen Subject: No just interested.. Message: No Helen I have no personal connection to M other than friends that are/were followers of M. One friend A, a follower of M, I've known for 22 years from our college days. We're both in our fourties(old men :)) so that might say something about A's connection to M. He was and is a great person though I've never understood his devoton to M. I couldn't understand this devotion as it was'nt reducable to logic and my senses where I function best. I do think it was difficult for A to maintain a friendship with me during our early friendship days as he seemed very commited to 'help me' become a believer. And when I let him know I was not interested for a number of reasons, I believe he took it as a disvaluing of himself(or M) or a lack of sense on my part. His thinking, I beieve was, 'How could Popeye not want this great gift I'm willing to share with him. An he's not stupid.' I think he felt allot of confusion came from his relationship with me. He knew I was'nt stupid given my background and all all the help I gave him to get through university. He probably would have spent another year at university if it were not for me as we both studied the same and very difficult disciplines. I think I was a connection to a reality that he secretely admired and wished for. But this last statement is mere speculation. Another friend B, a former follower of M, now holds M in contempt in many ways, I think. I think it's fair saying that about B. I was introduced to B by A about 10 years ago, I think.(Memory goes with age you know. THANK GOODNESS TOO!) We've developed a solid friendship. He's a person to be respected for a number of reasons. Our friendship has gone through bumps, I'm sure, but nothing memorable. I see this friendship lasting a long time, even through any future bumps. I think B's break with M will bring us closer than I'm with A. That's all, Popeye Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 02:01:07 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne Email: mbvictoria@hotmail.com To: Popeye Subject: No just interested.. Message: Hi Popeye I have cut and paste a portion of a post I made last week in response to one from Jim that you may find interesting on the issue of premie/non premie friendships. ...I have lots of friends too, premies and, because of where I live, lots of non premies. Indeed, most of my friends would probably fall into the latter category.They know of my involvement with M, and, I believe, respect that. My wife and son are not premies either, but they have seen videos of Maharaji and while not really interested in receiving Knowledge, respect my involvement... I know lots of premies who have non-premie friends or spouses with whom they are able to live contented and happy lives. The secret, as with any type of relationship, is mutual respect. Your original question was whether or not Maharaji discouraged premie interaction with non-premies; the straight answer is that no, he doesn't discourage it. Mel Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 11:17:25 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Popeye Subject: Link to reality Message: I think I was a connection to a reality that he secretely admired and wished for. But this last statement is mere speculation. You seem like a thoughtful person. I'm sure your speculation is rooted in your observations of how your friend related to you. I know for me, I always felt secretly foolish about my invlolvement with M. My friends who showed no interest in M (most of them), I always suspected had good reason for not showing it. I never felt confident that I was doing the right think by believing in M. My friends, indeed, did represent a link to a reality I admired, although I would never admit that to them or myself. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 01, 1999 at 19:26:50 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: POPEYE Subject: Friends outside of Knowledge Message: I lost good friends when I made the mistake of trying to put into words what I was doing in it and getting out of it with M's words and/or other premie's words. I have trouble writing letters on paper, still today, because I lost a wonderful friend in 1975 (freaked her right out) with my written ramblings at that time. She just could not relate to me again. 'Miss what we shared. It was always healthy and fun. The ashram ex-premies can give you much more detail on the commands and expectations that M demanded of them in regards to relationships outside DLM. What I'm becoming more and more aware of today is what was not said about these issues that's insidius (sp?), because all of M's other directions (for any premie) pointed to dropping friends if they weren't with the program...a lot of that by default. I could have friends outside of it all, but I was living two lives and was either keeping secret the one life or babbling nonsense of it's treasures while reluctantly propogating it. Making excuses about M's operations and conduct was what I found myself doing most of the time, and then, as the years progressed, I just started trying to hide it. Today it's very scary in that it's packaged as if anyone can benefit and live any life they like. Slick. Very slick. And highly deceptive. His site is the main reason I am experiencing a complete dismantling of my involvement with him and even K. Gotta run to work, but would be happy to add more of my own experiences or thoughts on this at a later time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 02:33:38 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: POPEYE Subject: Friends outside of Knowledge Message: Certainly when I was in the ashram, we were explicitly told that'ashram premies' ahould not have friends because our devotion should be 100% towards our living lord and that was the only relationship for an ashram premie. I remember once having a 'friend' round to the ashram and was really admonished by the then initiator. The fact that the 'friend' was a really devoted 'community premie' who regularly gave her house for Knowledge sessions and satsang made no difference according the the 'initiator'(whose name is Anne Johnson ). (there are some previous threads on this subject, try browsing the archives) You see the ashram was very holy place where anyone was privilaged to even be in the building. Excuse me I have to go and throw up now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 03:45:00 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Friends outside of Knowledge Message: Apart from anything else, if you were in the ashram there really wasn't time to have friends outside of K. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 06:51:42 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Mel Bourne, Popeye Subject: Friends outside of Knowledge Message: Maharji spoke in Johannesburg, SA mid 90's saying he didn't want to be anybody's uncle and then elaborating how one should 'Cut them' refering to ties to relatives. I don't know if they count as friends. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 07:07:25 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Popeye Subject: Friends outside of Knowledge Message: There can be no question about tha fact that M used to discourage friendships with others than premies. He even suggested premies to avoid family members who were not into K. I would think, though, that he would not say so anylonger. But then again, Zac says that he did say so still in the mid-90s! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 09:51:27 (EST)
From: Garth Email: None To: Happy Subject: Friends outside of Knowledge Message: Was there any sense that non-followers wouldn't fall into the category of 'Saved' and therefore were to be regarded, compassinately, of course, as somehow second-class? I seem to recall just that sort of attitude in Montreal in the 70's. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 02, 1999 at 09:56:46 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Garth Subject: Friends outside of Knowledge Message: Yes, as I remember it, non-premies were to be bombarded with satsang, and if they did not realize what a fantastic thing was going on, then they were simply 'in their minds', and dismissed. And, at several occasions, M actually warned against too much contact with family and relatives. This was in the 70s, at least. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 04, 1999 at 07:45:36 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: POPEYE Subject: Friends outside of Knowledge Message: Dear Popeye, I came back to reply to you after reading the thread, I also kept friends outside of K during my involvement. I lived in a premie house and my friends would come to the house to pick me up but would come inside. Once a premie even came with me to help an excentric friend and we had a blast! Maybe for me also it was this continued contact with the outside that helped me not get totally engulfed. Then I moved to a premie farm and we were all isolated from what was going on and maybe that helped too. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |