Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 41 | |
From: Mar 5, 1999 |
To: Mar 17, 1999 |
Page: 2 Of: 5 |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 00:00:52 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The therapist made me do it Message: Someone told me that Nigel once posted: 'I have quit quitting the forum' Had a long therapy session last night. (apprently therapy has been a subject of some dissent here but I haven't read it, don't plan to) Anywy, she has been around me for 8 years, she told me my quitting the forum was an acting out of some old stuff. Don't want to go into detail. But she said she has seen an amazing good change in me since I have been here, and suggested I let you guys back into my life. Here I am. I am still to shaky to do much posting but I wanted to say 'I have decided to try to quit quitting.' Just take a step back, distance for a while. post once in a while. cp I see you tried to contact me. Thank you for the support. Iam glad I was of some help to you. OK that's all I can handle for now. Rick I posted to you a few threads down - please email me if you can. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 01:04:02 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Selene Subject: Forum Therapy Message: Hi Selene, I would like to reiterate a message I posted awhile back. I've been in therapy since 1983, both conventional and unconventional. For me, this Forum accelerated the process of unraveling 20+ years of programming which in turn stirred up a lot of issues I was avoiding by using Knowledge, Maharaji, and the premie mindset. At first it was scary, but I honestly believe that I've saved thousands of dollars in therapy through my participation here. At one point, I felt that I was becoming addicted to the Forum. But that passed after awhile, and now I'm able to check in from time to time and see how my buddies are doing. I appreciate everyone here because I feel understood and compassion. We traveled a really hard road, some of us harder than others. The fact that so many exes are here to offer support and some perspective on what happened to us is indicative IMHO of (as Katie says) why I always like premies, basically. We really were/are looking for truth. Sometimes working through the layers of bullshit is really painful, but well worth it. Selene, you've helped me so much! I'm truly appreciative of all your support and everyone here. With love, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 07:50:19 (EST)
From: us Email: None To: eb Subject: eb's therapy account Message: Could you please tell us how much you have paid your therapist? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 09:28:33 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: us Subject: Therapy Account Message: US, Earth to US, Earth to US.... hello us, hello us. What planet are you on? Most therapy is covered under Employer Sponsored Benefit Packages. This would include Health Insurance, Life Insurance, Retirement Plans....... Oops I forgot, you might not have an Employer that provides a Most unlikely if a jet upgrade is needed. :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 01:42:32 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Selene Subject: The therapist made me do it Message: Selene, it is good to have you back. I want to let you know that the ex-premies are a kind of family; we don't always agree and some times we fight like cats and dogs, but we really do support each other as we have all been scammed by M. Sometimes we need to take a break from the Forum and the conversation, but you are always welcome when you return. The ex-premies are a real community, and there is more support here than most of us ever experienced as premies. As far as therapy is concerned, we all need to accept what ever help we can find; there is nothing wrong with therapy if the therapist is ethical and helpful. Just remember that you have many sisters and brothers right here to work with you, too. I am very happy to hear that you have 'quit quitting the Forum.' Welcome back, sister. Michael Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 07:48:00 (EST)
From: Us Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Michael made me do it Message: You are sooo sweet, are you sure you're not practising a little bit. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 12:15:51 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Us Subject: Michael made me do it Message: I know that it is difficult for a premie to understand that those who do not 'practice' are capable of empathy, happiness, real joy (as opposed to the Idiot Glee of premiedom) or anything good. I have not 'practiced' for years and I probably will avoid it for the rest of my life. If your posts are an example of the great love you have experienced through hyperventilation and eyeball squeezing, I'm sure that attendance at Introductory Videos will be growing by leaps and bounds! Selene is dealing with real issues in an honest manner; I suggest some self-examination on your own part. Perhaps you will find that 'that beautiful thing inside' is an illusion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 02:56:25 (EST)
From: Selen Email: None To: eb and Mickey Subject: The therapist made me do it Message: Thanks guys. It's embarrassing to quit and come back. She really did say forum has been good for me. So let those dumb premies babble on all they want, they don't get it and it bugs them. Gotta attempt to sleep now. i'll be around. Maybe I won't have Lena shoot herself in the head after all :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 04:17:27 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Selen Subject: My accountant made me do it Message: Honey, good to have you back. Where'd ya say you were? Can-Can or Brownsville, Texas? I always go to Vegas when I need an big unwinder. So, how soon, honey? I gotta have something to show the publisher or he ain't gone send me another check. That little screw up with the Maharaji beating us on that watch patent deal got us almost out of scratch. I had that knock-off factory in Shanghai all lined up, tooled and ready to go when the Maharaji's people served my people with a cease and desist order and a patent infringement lawsuit. Hell, anybody can see that my swans were gonna be black swans, black, angry, snarling swans. Hell, I taught that little guy how to throw a party, a real goddman party. And, he's beating me with this watch deal. So, Selene, whaddya say? Can you help out your old Uncle Roger? Can you crank out something quick? And you still remember what the readers want, don't ya? They want it hot. And they want sizzle. Love ya, we'll do lunch at Spagos on Tuesday. Ciao Roger Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 06:16:01 (EST)
From: cp Email: None To: Therapist Subject: Regards to the therapist. nt Message: text Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 07:52:48 (EST)
From: Us Email: None To: Selen Subject: Selene might make me do it Message: Your post isn't babble? Thank GOD for low standards. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 09:04:40 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Us Subject: Therapy and babble Message: Dear us, You have posted FOUR responses in this thread, and, as far as I can see, your only motive is to harrass the other people who have posted honestly and revealingly about. Maybe you think this is funny or somehow incisive - I don't think so. I find YOUR posts to be a good example of what Selene was referring to when she talked about 'babble' - I don't feel that you're saying anything of substance here. Also, I found your questions about the financial cost of therapy to be quite offensive. Why do you care about this, anyway? Are you trying to make some point here - maybe that it's cheaper to practice knowledge than go to therapy? You have no idea what people like Selene, eb, and others who have posted here have gone through in their lives and why therapy might be valuable to them, and it's pretty obvious that you don't care about them as people. Several of the more insightful premies who post on here have said that they believe that knowledge is NOT a substitute for professional therapeutic help. I know that in the seventies it was widely believed that knowledge could solve ALL your problems. This idea was pretty disastrous for some people, myself included. I have known several practicing premies who have gone to therapy, and who felt that it was beneficial to them (and I don't know how much they paid THEIR therapists either - this varies, because much therapy is covered by health insurance - for a good reason, I might add.) If you're not willing to be honest about your own beliefs and feelings, then I suggest you quit harrassing the other people who are willing to do this. Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 09:50:36 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Katie & Selene Subject: Katie & Selene Message: Thank you for saying that Katie, (looks like another slimey creature is amongst us) I hope you are doing well. Selene I am glad you are back, and I hope you find the right measure of the forum in your life, I'm trying to find that too. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 00:52:57 (EST)
From: Liz Email: None To: Katie Subject: Therapy and babble Message: Dear Katie, Thankyou so much for sending the Lord of the Universe Video. Due to very unforseen circumstances I have only just been able to watch it. Amazing! I would like to tell you privately about what has happened since you sent it to me. Please let me know which Katie you are again so I can return the video to you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 10:51:51 (EST)
From: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Liz Subject: To Liz (ot) Message: Hi Liz - I am Katie (Mischa) - the other Katie in the Journeys doesn't post here under the name Katie. I put my e-mail address above, but I'm out of town right now and can't pick up my e-mail, so you may not hear from me for a couple of weeks (so no rush on returning the video either). Anyway, I am glad you enjoyed (?) the video, and I'd like to hear what you have to say about it. Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 07:40:55 (EST)
From: Us Email: None To: Selene Subject: The therapist made me pay Message: Could you share with us, only if you want to, how much you pay your therapist. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 09:37:52 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Us Subject: The therapist made me pay Message: YOU are a worthless piece of shit, Us. What kind of fucking name is Us? Is that suposed to mean there are many of you? Well, I only see ONE asshole, a really big one. Why don't you get lost? You're a pain in the ass. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 10:20:45 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Selene Subject: Cyber group therapy Message: Selene, I'm glad your therapist understood the value of the Forum - not all therapist might have. Being a trained psychologist myself, I am amazed how many similarities there in fact is between the discussions on the forum and group psychotherapy. Group psychotherapy, IMO, is in fact often much faster than individual therapy, and works especially well when you're dealing with a specific problem, like here, setting our minds free from M's damaging and crippling programming. Everybody attending this group knows damned well the process and the scores, and no bullshitting is accepted. Also the fact that you don't see each other might in fact enhance the freshness and directness of the arguments. The forum is so refreshingly 'reality reassuring', as I said once myself previously. I left the cult (which I really think it is, a cult) myself about some 15-20 years ago, and did'nt realize that I still had deep scars in me, until I discovered the Forum last December. Since that, I have been reading it regularly, and, although it is taking far too much time, I want to continue. I don't know if I will write so often as I'm doing now in the future, but the forum has been very important for me. My present wife (not the ex-, who I have been mentioning, was very obsessed with M) has been wondering a little about my constant reading of the Forum, but she has accepted it as something important. A few times, I have been thinking of, not quitting, but taking a break - but I get far too much out of it right now. Many of the posts are really very intelligently written, and a pure joy to read. I like the ex-premies! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 13:15:21 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Happy Subject: Cyber group therapy Message: Hi Happy, Your post interested me greatly. I have never done well in group therapy because I'm rather introverted and self-centered. That time in the nut house, I saw myself clearly manipulating various participants in the group using passive-aggressive techniques. It was fun; but I have some remorse about it now, and I know it wasn't healing for me. Anyway, it's been my experience with the Forum that the group dynamics has accelerated my healing process dramatically. In the past, I'd done lots of emotive therapy one-on-one,(and lots of hooey hooey healing stuff), but for cognitive therapy, the Forum rocks! I could not break through some fundamental belief systems, built with both Mormon and Maharaji bricks, until I found this site. Dismantling those systems has allowed me to feel a freedom to make positive choices which is what therapy is all about IMO. Sincerely, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 13:51:00 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: eb Subject: Cyber group therapy Message: eb, I think one of the crucial differences between the Forum and 'real life' group therapy is that you don't see each other. In fact, it makes communication/exchange of arguments easier. I have to stop here - it's late in my country, Friday night, and I have to get home from my work. Take care! Happy Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 10:06:39 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: eb & Happy Subject: Cyber group therapy Message: I agree with both of you. The forum has helped me tremendously. It's hard to explain its appeal to people (particularly my family members) who spout off statistics about how people who hang around the internet get depressed. It's hard for people to understand how life-saving something like this can be--cognitive therapy & camaraderie for a very unique shared experience. One sister of mine has had to cope with a 'born again' sister in law who is very programmed. The psychology is actually very similar to what we ex-premies went through, so I think she (that sister) understands a little. Happy, my husband also thinks I'm spending too much time here. Although he does see its value, since he's a therapist and a good guy who detests rip off artists like Maharaji. Is there a balance to be found with the forum so that it doesn't turn into an obsession? If anyone wants to email on this subject I'd be interested Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 13:07:53 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Helen Subject: Cyber group therapy Message: I don't know - for me, it's still at a level that I have to check out the forum every day. I hope I'll be able to reduce a little soon... It is so damned refreshing. I guess one of the reasons that it's so effective is, beside the group thing and the anonymous part of it, that you actually can go to it everyday, at any time of the day, when you have time and feel like it. I usually read the forum at work... I still feel I benefit tremendously. But it DOES require pretty much time! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 15:58:47 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Happy Subject: Cyber group therapy Message: Hi Happy, I don't remember exactly when I started reading the Forum--it was a few months before Brian took over as Webmaster. I read all the archives up to that point in every spare moment at work (I have many mindless tasks that made this possible). Then I had the Forum opened all the time and read every post for a number of months. Last year sometime, I realized that I wasn't keeping up with everything. By then, I had come to recognize that I was way beyond sitting on the fence. I couldn't even see the fence anymore. I've experienced the same pattern in going to meetings and with individual therapists. There comes a point where the lesson is learned, the knowledge gained is integrated within, and there are no more questions. When I come around nowadays, it's because I like to say hi to my buddies, write a little CORN, and offer support if I think I can help. I'm still hoping to meet some of you someday. Wasn't VP going to have a party of exes? We could even give out honorary awards. Bill gets it for the most pseudonyms; I'd like to be remembered for the most 'back from the brink of suicide attempts' but I may have some competition there. With love, eb Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 22:42:21 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Happy Subject: Cyber group therapy Message: I sometimes get too emotionally upset witnessing the heated exchanges with premies and ex-premies. I find I have to take breaks from the forum lately. Also it takes away from time with my family. But hey, I just have to check it every day too, the people here are great & where else can you go where people understand this shit? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 12:26:07 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jerry Subject: The therapist made me pay Message: Dear Jerry, Silly, don't you know Us has multiple personality disorder and is just trying to get an idea if 'their' therapist is charging to much! :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 12:41:20 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Robyn Subject: The therapist made me pay Message: Cute, Robyn :) Maybe Us is paying more. I mean he/it/them, whatever, should pay more, don't you think. If I was a shrink I know I'd charge per personality. And if those personalities were as insensitive as Us', I'd charge double for each one! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 12:50:41 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jerry Subject: The therapist made me pay Message: Dear Jerry, That must be it, charged by personality! :) Being a gemini I have 2 personalities myself so thank god I don't go to therapy much and when I have I kept 'Bad Robyn' quite. :) When I was very little, 4-6 I use to do a Bad Robyn bit to get out of beatings. It really caught on in the family and I started getting requests, took the fun out of it for me and got to be a drag toward the end! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 13:16:24 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Robyn--you're so funny! NT Message: NT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 18:50:11 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Us is many personalities Message: Jerry: Unfortunately the asshole is the only one that knows how to write anything.... :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 19:11:33 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mike Subject: Us is many personalities Message: Dear Mike, Maybe if you are nice to Us, some other 'sides' will show themselves, there must be at least one other one that can write! Just the law of averages. :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 11:44:31 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Us Subject: The therapist made me pay Message: I don't pay her. she lets me fuck her brains out for exchange. Hey you get what you put out honey. I am not responding again so you can ask me anything you want. I am protecting myself from this kind of crap I said in my first post I was still very shaky/ What's up with you that you need to try to make me feel worse? Don't bother to answer for my sake, I am reading it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 12:29:13 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Selene Subject: The therapist made me pay Message: Dear Selene, Welcome back sweetie! 'I don't pay her. she lets me fuck her brains out for exchange.' Jesus you crack me up!!!!! Love ya, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 15:44:34 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Selene Subject: The therapist made me pay Message: Dear Selene, Welcome back sweetie! 'I don't pay her. she lets me fuck her brains out for exchange.' Jesus you turn me on!!!!! Love ya, Nim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 17:54:07 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Nim Subject: The therapist made me pay Message: oooohhh and oh oh.... That's a dangerous thing to say to me these days Nim. But thanks :) that was much nicer than what I had been doing, attempting to install NT products.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 20:24:55 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Selene Subject: The therapist made me pay Message: oooohhh and oh oh.... That's a dangerous thing to say to me these days Nim Well Selene, sometimes I find myself going out on a limb, especially to make contact. And I did want to make contact with you, if only to let you know that I'm glad you're here... I'm glad I'm here...that we're both on the same page, if you know what I mean. You really do make it a little more beautiful for everyone here. Ok! Ok!... I'll leave ya alone...please don't get mad at me!! I just had to say it!!! I'm outta here....for now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 20:40:59 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Nim Subject: The therapist made me pay Message: I said it was dangerous. I didn't say it made me angry or anything. I am a terrible flirt. I used to be when I was an adolescent, then kind of settled down, for a while. but when stuff get stirred up it gets stirred up - you are a sweetheart. No harm done. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 20:56:27 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Selene Subject: One more thing ,Selene Message: you are a sweetheart And you made my day. Luv ya Selene, Nim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 23:24:47 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Nim Subject: The therapist made me pay Message: So Nim speaking of out on a limb.... :) I posted my email back a few threads. I really need to check to see if I have done damage with my know enuf to be dangerous systems skills. Write me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 12:48:38 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: Selene Subject: The Selene I Know and Love Message: I don't pay her. she lets me fuck her brains out for exchange. ROTFL!!! Love your show, dear! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 15:43:22 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Selene Subject: Welcome back!!! Message: Hi Selene, I am so glad you took your therapists advice and isn't it great she sees it as a positive force in your life. Sometimes I need a break from the Forum and even the internet as a whole. It can be really time consuming and of course sometimes upsetting. I think one thing you can do is when you need a break say, 'I am taking a break', that way when you return you don't feel sheepish. I have been there with that on another unrelated parenting board. Anyway, I am so glad to see your name on the board and can completely relate to wanting to just shuck it sometimes... Also you are a great writer! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 22:51:37 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: g's mom Subject: Welcome back!!! Message: Thank you. I never could figure out if you liked me. I am kind of weird. I have a request to anyone who knows my email. Can you email me? I am afraid I just did something dastardly to my sendmail Though 08% of the time I did it right but don't believe it. Yeah, funny how that can cross into many aspects of life. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 12:03:37 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Selene Subject: email Message: Are you saying here you want me to email you or anyone? I don't think I have your email. IF you want my email you can ask Katie? I felt really bad when you left that I did not respond to your last post. Sometimes I forget it is good manners to acknowledge you read something rather than assume someone knows you did. Often if I do not have a comment I do not post but I read a lot. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 14:03:07 (EST)
From: selene Email: None To: g's mom Subject: email Message: Sorry I was unclear. I had reconfigured something on my computer, with my email, and it's complex, had been a while since I'd done it so I was just asking anyone who had my email to send to me so that I could see if I was able to get it and respond. I never thought you were rude to me, I just kind of felt like I was, I dont know, a little over the top for you or something. It's nothing, really, just my good ole self esteem issues. Thanks!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 22:01:21 (EST)
From: Rev John Hammond-Smyth Email: pulpit@church.com To: Everyone Subject: I am Alpha & I am Omega Message: And the Lord sayeth - I am in the timeless place for I am beyond time and space, for I am Alpha and I am Omega. I am the beginning and the end. And he didst create an timepiece for to weareth upon the wrist and he saw that it was good. And upon its face he didst design the most exquisite face which was of Mickey Mouse and he sayeth to his lawyers - hear ye O children of Prem, for I have made for you this priceless gift of time and no man may copyeth it for it is MINE and mine alone. And his lawyers didst quake at the knees for they were sore afraid of the wrath of the Lord. And they didst contact the Patents Office and didst request for an patent for the Lord's Mickey Mouse watch. And the Lord saw that it was good and he didst tell the whole world the good news and every eye didst see and every ear didst hear of the patent of the Lord. And lo, the children of Prem didst fall upon their faces crying - All hail our great leader who is not a leader! All hail the great one who moveth the Universe and is the creator of time! But it came to pass that a prophet whose name is Gerry didst dare to question the word of the Lord. And the prophet Gerry didst search high and low for the patent of the Lord but alas, a patent he found not. And the prophet sayeth - verily I say unto you, O children of Prem, I have searched under every stone and over every mountain in the kingdom and yet there is no patent. And there was a wailing and gnashing of teeth in heaven as the great prophet's word didst reach the Lord and his concubines. And the wrath of the Lord did reach the outermost corners of the kitchen. And he sayeth - woe to you, you lawyers and patent clerks for you denieth me mine glory which is due to me. I AM the Lord your God for I am the Alpha and I am the Omega and that Mickey Mouse watch is mine, mine, mine! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 12:55:07 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Rev John Hammond-Smyth Subject: I am Alpha & I am Omega Message: Dear Rev, Hysterical, but aren't you feeling like a traitor? I thought you were a devotted premie, tisk, tisk. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 14:33:34 (EST)
From: The Rev Email: None To: Robyn Subject: I am Alpha & I am Omega Message: No Robyn; the plain old John Hammond Smyth who is sometimes a Lord is my cousin and he lives in his padded cell. He's married to Lady Jane Hammond-Smyth. She may make another appearance here again. She tries to lure unsuspecting ex-premies back into premiedom with her charms. Her cut glass accent and fine breeding are hard for men to resist. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 20:03:44 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Poetry Message: You gotta love this; it's one of Maharaji's 'poems': Feeling In silence I learn to listen In simple joy I begin to glisten(????) All thoughts seem so distant Want to feel only the instant The clever in me wants to fear (?????) The heart in me wants the dear (?????) Conflict is, but will be over Heart will win, I will be sober(???????????) Glisten? But what else rhymes with 'listen?' The clever wants to fear? I will be sober? What the hell is this? Is he joining AA or something? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 20:42:39 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: Poetry Message: Dear Joe, Thanks I love it! With all you guys going to that site and retrieving worthwhile tid bits it saves me having to go there too! :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 01:35:23 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: JW Subject: Poetry Message: This is the sort of stuff that 9 or 10 year olds come up with. Surely any premie with a reasonable amount of intelligence would be embarrassed by this drivel? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 02:49:59 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: chr Subject: Poetry - You haven't lived... Message: until you've been at a big program and That poetry is read by a somber Maharaji in a whispered voice against scenes of waterfalls, pretty flowers, and ocean waves breaking on a pebbled beach somewhere near That kingdom of Malibu. And the crowd is mesmerized and can't wait to get to the Sales Hall to drop some big money on an almost life size framed portrait of the Master. If only that car hadn't screeched to a frantic stop as I darted madly, uncaringly across the road trying to escape in shame because my VISA card was maxed out. It moved me! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 07:33:22 (EST)
From: lurkin Email: None To: JW Subject: Poetry: between the lines... Message: In silence I learn to listen but I hear no children scream In simple joy I begin to glisten I overdid the Brylcreme All thoughts seem so distant really, thinking's such a pain Want to feel only the instant gratification once again The clever in me wants to fear hey, what's this crap I'm scribbling? The heart in me wants the dear oh Christ, I've started dribbling... Conflict is, but will be over they'll call me the new Gandhi Heart will win, I will be sober Now, where did I put that brandy..? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 13:18:34 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: lurkin Subject: Bravo Message: That made me laugh. Thank you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 13:45:36 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: lurkin Subject: Excellent (nt) Message: a;sdjf;aj Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 04:09:01 (EST)
From: ex-mug Email: None To: lurkin Subject: Absolutely Brilliant!!! (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 15:28:01 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Answers to Common Qs Message: Okay, more commentary. Part of the webpage of the former Superior Power In Person, is a section entitled 'Answers to Common Questions.' It's interesting how those 'questions' were selected. Note that the questions raised over and over on this forum and in repeated letters to the Superior Power from ex-devotees remain unanswered, including why he ever had and closed the ashrams, why he was called the Lord of the Universe, why he has people kiss his feet, why he is a multi-millionaire with a 9th grade education, what his finaces are, etc. But, as to the 'questions' he DID answer we have already noted the lie about the patent. Other misleading statements include: Answer #1:He later graduated as an airline transport pilot and holds a number of pilot type ratings on jet airlines and helicopters. Truth: Note that he doesn't mention WHERE he graduated from. I think the truth is the premies' donations paid for a full-time pilot to work with the Lord and train him over a period of years, on his own private planes and jets, also paid for by the premie's donations, to get him the certifications. How many people, in the entire world, get that kind of one-on-one pilot training, with their own private planes, and how many people would be so inept NOT to get a pilot's certification under those conditions? So, why should we be impressed? Answer #2:He is also a successful private investor and has contributed to the success of several startup companies in various industries, including software. Truth: Taking some of the millions he collected from poverty-striken premies over the years while sitting having his feet kissed in darshan lines, he invested in some companies to make even more money, no doubt relying on the advice of expert investment advisors. Again, what is impressive about this. Actually it's very sad that he ripped off the premies and made even more money. The only skill was in doing the ripping off in the first place. Answer#3: His other hobbies include painting, cooking, photography, tennis, boating, sailing, flying glider planes, restoring vintage automobiles, and collecting watches. Truth: He is one rich motherfucker to own the courts, boats, planes, vintage automobiles and rest, and he has a hell of a lot of leisure time that most working people can't even imagine, and he has lots of servants to do all his mundane work so he has time to do the stuff he likes. Not mentioned in his list of hobbies are collecting luxury cars, planes, $10,000 suits, drinking expensive French cognac, flying planes and jets (he does it for fun; it isn't a job working for United Airlines you know), gold plumbing fixtures, and dancing half naked in front of thousands of people while wearing crowns. Answer #4: Maharaji and his wife of 24 years have four children. Truth: Anyone want to comment and completing this discussion? Can you say Monica Lewis? Answer #5: In 1998, Maharaji attended 123 events in 26 cities in 15 countries with a total attendance of more than 300,000 people. Truth: It's a good thing he mentioned 'people' there, because otherwise we might think he was talking about cows. But seriously, since premies are known to fly around the world to attend many 'events' one suspects a lot of double, or quarduple counting going on here. The same is true in stating the number of people who attended 'video presentations.' Answer #6: Maharaji does not recommend any particular lifestyle or religion. His teachings are independent of lifestyle and religion. Truth: No, he doesn't 'recommend' a lifestyle or religion, he DEMANDS it, or at least he used to. Satsang, service and meditation, vegitarianism, ashram schedules, and all the rest prescribed an ENTIRE lifestyle, which, if you didn't follow, according you him, you didn't have the experience of knowledge. And as for following another religion while being a premie -- give me a break! Answer#7: These organizations (EV) pay only for documented expenses related to his attendance at events they sponsor. Truth: Wouldn't you love to see the 'documented expenses?' Let's see, the rental cost (from him) of a private jet plane, plus fuel, personnel, servants, airport charges, storage, etc., plus the cost of he and his entire entourage to travel and live in first-class accommodations in wherever he is, and his family and mistress if he brings them, food, $10,000 suits, etc., etc.., Yes, those 'expenses,' very normal ones for any speaker hired to appear at any 'event,' sure can add up. Can't wait to see if he gives us any more 'answers.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 15:45:51 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: JW Subject: Uncommonly great post JW! (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 04:25:59 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: drek@oz.net To: g's mom Subject: Hey, I got a job for you, pal Message: JW I need somebody to a special scathing piece on a camp follower and a huge amount of cash hidden in Switzerland. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 17:16:14 (EST)
From: Sandra Email: None To: JW Subject: Answers to Common Qs Message: Jeeeez....such blind hatred. You sound quite obsessed. I suppose in a parallel universe you'd be quite the devotee. So many items, sooooo far off the mark and/or woefully out of date. Sounds like you take small bits of fact, spin them the worst way possible and then extrapolate them to the far rings of Saturn to promote your hate-fueled, zealous cause. I truly hope you have other, far more fun things that occupy your time. If you have dates I sure hope you don't bore them away with this stuff. I'd get my coat real quick! Can you say bogeyman? Bogey, bogey, bogey, bogey! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 17:23:24 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Hello Sandra Message: Hey, care to make any corrections rather than just making generalizations about me, whom you likely have never met by the way? I suggest you can't Sandra, because as a premie you likely have virtually no information whatsoever about M's finances, his personal affairs, how he got his pilot certification, or anything else. He is anything other than forthcoming that giving details on where he got his millions. Come on dear, enlighten us, you have every right to, as does Maharaji, by the way. And what makes you think this isn't fun? By the way, honey, it's 'boogeyman' (a racist term by the way) and not bogeyman. A 'bogey' is very close to what I get when I play golf, unfortunately. As for the 'hate-fueled, zealous cause,' what is with you premies, do you ALL read from the same script? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 17:48:31 (EST)
From: Sandra Email: None To: JW Subject: Hello Sandra Message: Darling JW, I must say. I've read almost nothing BUT generalizations on your page here. Stereotyping galore. Perhaps it is fun but you should know it veers perilously close to any other kind of discrimination or prejudice. As to bogeyman, I always saw it spelled that way...kind of like bologna or baloney...but I prefer your two Os..it looks better as boogeyman. As to hate-fueled, that's exactly how it feels to me with complete denial of any of M's qualities or abilities. People don't just follow around or get inspired by any ole' Joe for 20-25 years at a time for no reason at all. You overstate your 'case,' honey. As to your golf game, I wish for you to become at least Parman and hopefully Birdieman with aspirations to Eaglehood. ...and now I must fly away, Sandra Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 18:11:07 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Hello Sandra Message: I've read almost nothing BUT generalizations on your page here. Stereotyping galore. I suggest you read further on. Read the journeys as well. Far from generalizations, you will find people speak from their own experiences. It's very real and heartfelt. Stereotyping whom? Mahararji? I think it would be impossible to make him more of a characature than he already is. Perhaps it is fun but you should know it veers perilously close to any other kind of discrimination or prejudice. What prejudice are you talking about. Remember the people who post here were once premies themselves. Besides, I not you have not even attempted to correct even one little teeny point that you think is in any way inaccurate with any information whatsoever. This forum is about open discussion and exchanging information. Please feel free to do the same. And I'm sure you can't deny that Maharaji's website is devoid of any information about his former incarnation as the Lord of the Universe. Don't you think people are entitled to that information? If we don't provide it here, they certainly aren't going to get it from him, now are they? Thanks for the wishes for my golf game, but it probably needs more than just good wishes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 18:17:40 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Hello Sandra Message: Which of these are stereotypes or generalizations? 1. Maharaji said he was God. 2. Maharaji asked premies to surrender the reigns of their lives. 3. Maharaji said he could show you God, face to face. 3. Maharaji changed his hat from God to meditation teacher. 4. Maharaji changed his offer from showing you God, to showing you how to enjoy 'this life'. 5. Maharaji said he would establish peace on earth. 6. Maharaji denied he was or ever wanted to be a leader. These are just the basics, Sandra. There are lots more. Naturally, you don't want your Guru exposed as a fraud. It would render your delusions useless and cause you to re-evaluate your life and all it's assumptions. But sure, don't bother to stay and discuss with us for awhile. We understand you're busy. Maybe another time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 20:49:45 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: Sandra Subject: Hello Sandra Message: Hello Sandra, I am relatively new to this list and have found it to be profoundly helpful in the healing of deep hurts experienced as a premie under Rawat. Several things I've already discerned: 1. Rawats devotees or whatever they are called now do in fact monitor this list. Once I registered as an ex-premie, I was contacted by Mark Huelsbeck, whom I assume is still working for Rawat, via e-mail and I also am assuming he obtained my e-mail address on this list. I replied to him but never heard back. 2. Many of us gave up parts of our lives under the impression that this was a humble person who would work towards the betterment of mankind. It is sometimes painful to look back and realize that our talents, funds, and time were wasted as we realized over the years that Rawat was/is the ultimate hedonist. Our mistake, perhaps... but we were of a generation that honored souls like Mother Theresa or say Amy Carmichael (an individual who dedicated her entire life to saving young female children and infants offered as temple prostitutes in India.) Check out some of her work. 3. As a woman you must not turn your back upon any allegations of sexual misconduct concerning young females that were molested by anyone under Rawat's authority. Although I am now convinced these incidents will be rationalized away by a typical ploy of Rawats to attribute divine sanction to vicious acts, which result in immorality as no longer counted immoral and anyone who so acting will follow the example not of immoral men but of the gods in heaven. Go figure. 4. Speak with those close to Rawat. Ask if drugs were not sold in Miami to finance his cause. Question why funds sent for the Malibu residence in the seventies had to be kept secret until illicit corporations were set up to funnel these funds. 5. Look at the movie from London in the early seventies. You would not know from watching it that many were co-erced into putting all their money and jewelry into white paint buckets 'prior' to Darshan by those churlish Mahatmas and Security. Have you seen Schlinder's List? I would not have been surprised had Rawat sanctioned a dentist to extract all gold teeth in the name of 'enlightenment'. I was there and I am in that movie. I saw it once and couldn't look at it again... even as a premie. Something was amiss. Talk to mothers who were in Rome of 78. Let them tell you how Rawat ordered the gates locked and posted his toughest security guards around the Coliseum. There were hundreds of mothers with distraught and fevered infants straining against those iron gates and begging to get out. I got out with my 6 month old daughter only because I had navigated to a position at the ironbars and having 5 brothers new exactly how to get the miscreant guard to open the gate. Enough for now. May the Lord have mercy on you. Sincerely, Mary McGraw-Collins formerly Mary Farley Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 23:23:05 (EST)
From: Memphis Belle Email: None To: Sandra Subject: I had Knowledge for 1yr in 97 Message: In 1996 I was an aspirant. In 1997 I received Knowledge. In 1998 I became an ex-premie. I do not know anything of the past so called 70's. I was 5 then. I did not know Maharaji as the lord of the universe. What I am trying to clarify, is the simple fact that something just didn't seem right about Maharaji. Something seemed fishy. People seemed a little wacky, kind of religious. I do not have any hate for the past. I simply had a sense that something was wrong. What was wrong? I was tired of Maharaji yelling about life. Yelling is the main word to notice here. Lots of yelling. He talked to the aspirants with a gentle tone about life. But he talks to the premies with an altogether different tone. Listen to the tone of his voice. Lots of loud yelling. Perhaps people like to be yelled at. But the key moment that turned me away was when Maharaji said, 'remember me'.... 'remember me'.... as if when my time comes to die I should remember him. That was a real wake-up call! I want to remember God. I am on this site because I want other premies to read my thoughts. When I had the title 'premie', another premie friend told me about this sight - that it was just a bunch of old hurt premies from the 70's. I came to this website because I wanted to see if my instincts about something being fishy was correct. Just read. The proof is in all of these dear people. These people went through something major. And I want to thank them for being here for me and any others. Just keep reading. oh-yeah, and one more thing: In 1999 became my self again! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 01:26:46 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: Memphis Belle Subject: I had Knowledge for 1yr in 97 Message: Nice post, Memphis. You're right about about something being fishy. Most of us here have had some recent contact at programs etc and not much has changed. Some of the external forms have changed , but the impulse and basic beliefs have not. Most premies still seem to regard M as some sort of deity, they're just not as overt about it these days. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 02:24:37 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Memphis Belle Subject: I had Knowledge for 1yr in 97 Message: 'In 1999 became my self again!' great to hear from someone that nipped it in the bud :>) jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 09:05:04 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Hello Mary M Message: Once I registered as an ex-premie, I was contacted by Mark Huelsbeck .... I'm a bit curious about what happened to you! Did you give out your email somewhere (with your 'journey'), or your name in full, or other indication? Who's Mark H? Did you know him before? Any idea of his position in EV? What was his email about? Did he try to intimidate you, or threaten you in any way? Would you post this email in case you've kept it? What was your feeling with this email? The reason why I'm asking you this, is because I have the feeling that a lot of fence-sitting persons (I've been in that position for a few months) are hesitating to post here, in fear of what might happen ..... In my case, NOTHING happened beside a few phone calls and conversations. I simply told them that posting here is something private, and what I'm doing here or what I talk about with any of the persons I know is my own private business. What's funny about this is that m & EV keep repeating that they don't want to interfere with anybody's private life. What a joke! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 14:36:02 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Hello Mary M Message: In my case, NOTHING happened beside a few phone calls and conversations. I simply told them that posting here is something private, and what I'm doing here or what I talk about with any of the persons I know is my own private business. Hi JM, But what did the person from EV say to you? Rick Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 17:08:35 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Rick Subject: Hello Mary M Message: He didn't say much, because he's intelligent and quite manipulative. He tried to give me a bit of satsang about m's commandment as not to leave room for doubts in our mind etc He asked me if I knew Jim Heller, and I guess he tried to understand what I had in my mind. And in fact I told him I was pissed with the BM and what he was doing, and the whole deception in his organization. I told him that I didn't want to be a part of this anymore, that it was my own private business, and that I didn't need his authorization to speak to anybody including on the Net. I've never heard from him since that date. But from conversations with other premies friends, I've understood that the premies think (i.e. have been told) that this forum and exes attitude is fueld by hatred (i.e. MIND=negative thoughts), kind of stuff that's supposed to make you (us exes) feel bad. I guess the BM had to somehow rationalize this in his philosophy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 19:58:04 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: Jean-Michel Subject: Hello Mary M Message: Jean-M and others, Mark contacted me via e-mail after I registered in the ex-premie white pages. I used my former name ex-premies would know me by, Mary Farley. Mark and his family lived with us in the Family Premie House (note the oxymoron ;-) in Boston. He didn't say much at all. The last time I saw him was in Miami 1982-83? He was doing the light, sound, and stage work as well as some computer work for EV. I like Mark and really hope that he'll get out some day or is out. I really wanted to get his ex-wifes number to see how she and the boys are doing. She suffered greatly in those early years. I was also contacted by an individual who seemed very bitter towards Rawat. He indicated his wife is presently involved with the movement. I think his e-mail was a test of some sort but I can't be sure. He let me know that he is most concerned for his three year old daughter being exposed to the Rawat trip. His e-mail address (without sig) was ______@eFortress.com I have never seen this type of address and was wondering about it. I've omitted his sig because if he truly has a three year old daughter he's concerned about I feel it best to protect his identity from the premies on this list until the libertine pedophile problem is addressed by Rawat. Back soon, Mary M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 12:34:25 (EST)
From: G's mom Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Hi Mary Message: That story from Rome made me cry. You must have been so terrified. I was in Rome too. God Mary that must be a terrible memory. It makes me nauseated. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 13:22:41 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: G's mom Subject: Rome's Lockdown Repercussions Message: Yes, I was terrified (with my Irish up) and will fill the rest of the story in now. The reason I was frantically trying to get out during the 'Darshan Lockdown' with my 6 month old was to try and find a doctor or some childrens medicine for my three year old daughter who remained inside with her father. She was running a high fever and becoming lethargic. I was able to contact a physician/pharmacist in Rome and was told to work on getting her fever down. I remember, coming back with the medicine and trying to deal with the situation. Ironically, this same daughter (elder one) is now facing major surgery in two weeks due to a neurological illness of unknown origin. Her specialists wanted a history of any untreated high fevers. I had buried the Rome incident and wrapped it in 'my private veil of shame' until their request brought it up from the depths of past sorrow. (For years I had blamed myself for all the illogical behaviors I practised as a premie that ultimately affected my childrens well being, as well as our relationship. Long term therapy has helped tremendously in dealing with my private journey through the circles of hell I experienced with M and his cult.) At any rate, I was able to tell her specialists of what occurred in Rome (last week). They were quite appalled and somewhat askance. They could not comprehend anyone being forcibly locked in a public facility particularly overseas with small children. What could I tell them... That's Maharaj Ji and his goon squad for ya! I feel there will always be scars but they are now an indication that healing has and is taking place daily. Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 13:51:47 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Mary M Subject: oh Mary... Message: Yeah...um...isn't it illegal to lock people inside a building against their will? We used to just accept that all the time back then. After all...what premie was gonna call the cops on the goon squad? I can only guess at how terribly hard it was to explain to the doctors about Rome and the cult. It really must have just been like pouring salt in a wound. What I really feel ill about in what you say is sometimes I would volunteer for security at the programs. God I hope I would have done the right thing when faced with a mom with a child who wanted out...god anyone who wanted out had a right! Just the idea that I too could have acted that way makes me ill. I hope I never did. It is stories like this that illustrate so well how terribly pervasive the damage the cult did was on all levels. You will have to live with the guilt and anger of this forever. I am glad that you are healing from all of this. It really is important, this board, because each time one of us speaks up about these things it is just about the only thing we can do to help others heal or prevent similar injustice. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 14:41:07 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: g's mom Subject: Sincere Thanks Message: .... now we can smile through the tears. M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 15:43:45 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Being a goon Message: A couple of times I was asked to be on security detail -- in the U.S. Nothing of any significance ever happened when I did. Though this obviously pales in comparison with your personal trauma from the Rome 'darshan lockdown,' that I pray will not be any more of a legacy for you and your daughter, it does show how stupid the cult can cause one to be. Miami -- 77?. M was about to leave the building when I was asked to stand guard at the top of one of the levels overlooking where his vehicle would pull out of. Wow, I thought, this is important. 'Oh yes, I'd be glad to.' A half dozen of us were being instructed by our security 'leader' in an open hallway near a seat entrance. A good friend, in fact more than a good friend, came up behind me and starting trying to get my attention. She was being very playful and completely innocent (that's what this event was all about, right?). I motioned to her that I was busy with something important. She ignored whatever my body language attempted to convey and began touching me, giggling and trying to get me away from the 'CIA pow-wow.' I had been convinced how much M's security was a top priority (not anyone elses, of course) and required my full, undivided attention. So, I just snapped, turned suddenly and with a severe tongue lashing (a verbal violence), instructed her to go away and leave me alone. For a split second, I was just plain cruel, in the name of God. The look on her face said it all. I might as well have punched her in the stomach. Something was amiss as I stood out there, 'doing my service.' I knew I had hurt someone deeply for no real good reason. For years I'd wonder 'why would I do that?' I'd try meditating to quiet my mind, thus burying the reality. Oh, what surrender to another (a K prerequisite) can do to one's common sense. This is a small story. Tiny. Inconsenquential. Or is it? I lost a very good friend, by my own stupidy and have always regretted it. I've often wanted to run into her and deeply apologize. B' (if you're here), I am so very, very sorry. You did not deserve that. I am lucky that that is all I lost through my security service to the Lord. Others are, or will be, having to deal with guilt that will haunt them their whole life. --------- 'Best wishes for you Mary and all your family. Erin Go Braugh, Miloochie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 20:15:07 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: Miloochie, g's mom, Mary Subject: Being a goon Message: From 79 I on had quite a bit to do with security-mainly backstage, plane and residence-very little program. I think that when people lose sight of themselves, when they give themselves away to a group energy, they do things that are out of character. With M , conscience and common sense were overridden by devotional ardour. There are many things I said and did as a premie that I regret. Fortunately I didn't have to lock mothers and children out or in-it was generally over devotional, obsessively in love with their guru type premies that I had to deal with: trying to go through darshan twice, hanging out at the airport for M's arrival etc. M was so locked away in his ivory tower that I really don't think he realised the consequences of his directions- he seemed incapable of a global view. I had a few experiences of this. He would give a direction because of an idea he had as a solution to something , without realising that it would have repercussions elsewhere. I didn't know about the Rome lock in-I was doing food service and didn't have kids to worry about. I do know that he intensely disliked people coming in and out during his satsang. In fairness to M, he did ask for the concessions to be left open during his satsang at Kissimee 78 so that mothers could get food for hungry children. However children and parents were usually regarded as second rate citizens in M's world at that time. He made that very clear at an ashram satsang at Kissimee in 79 when he said that husbands and wives couldn't really dedicate themselves to M in the same way that ashram premies could.He went on to say that ashram premies had the opportunity to give all their love,every aspect, to M,whereas husbands and wives gave some of their love to each other. He also repeated that ridiculous Indian story about how when a man is on his own he has the freedom of 2 legs ,when he marries it becomes 4, and by the time he has chidren he has 8 or more to try and walk through life with. This attitude filtered down with all sorts of consequences ,such as the Rome situation. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 00:31:55 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: chr,miloochie,g's mom Subject: Being a goon Message: Ditto. Actually I was trying to recall as much as I could about the lockdown in Rome. I'm pretty sure it was on one of the days that we were also waiting for M to dance in full regalia. Prior to the festival there were quite a few rumours flying through the grapevine concerning 'alleged' threats received from the Catholic Church and other Italian citizens who quite simply did not want M in Rome. I don't think it was M's intention to torture mothers. I think the poor boy was probably a tad paranoid. My closest sister (sibling) married into a large Sicilian family. Her in-laws are all first generation immigrants. She has had some interesting 'familia' tales over the years some which involved the methods of retribution when outsiders mess with their family members. So, whether the rumors were true or not let's imagine for a moment that someones beloved daughter from the 'old country' got involved with M. and alienated herself from 'la familia'. This would not be a hard thing for her to do, because all of a sudden (let's imagine here) mama's precious 'Mary or Maria' dedicated to the Virgin Mother comes home for a visit with yellow earplugs wadded in her ears, an arti tray packed in her sack, a picture of M in full Krishna regalia for her bedside stand, a meditation blanket (which she sits under for an hour or so while resting her elbows on some odd stick), and insult of insults she will not even taste the feast her family prepared for her homecoming. Mama is weeping, Papa is silent but knows his time will come. Finally, papa finds out M is coming to his turf and the rumors of retribution start flying. Were they true, you can bet your last dime M did not want anyone from the Catholic Church or Sicily see him prancing around the stage in that Krishna outfit! Mama Mia! Finally, as my dear Brother-in-Law tells me each time he makes sauce, 'Mama always said if it walks to slow or flies to low throw it in the pot'. Ciao Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 23:49:32 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: Security Detail Message: Miloochie, What a reminder your post brought to me of just how important it is to make amends with those we've hurt. All of us, myself included, have hurt many consciously or unconsciously. It takes deep strength and sensitivity to examine ourselves and our actions. Should your friend see that post all of the hurt she may have experienced or harbored will melt in the warmth of forgiveness. Mary M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 23:53:23 (EST)
From: Selene Email: selene@ocean.ccit.arizona.edu To: Rick Subject: off topic Message: Rick If you are around could you email me please? Thanks Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 23:12:56 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Answers to Common Qs Message: Hey Sandra, It's amazing - the spin - isn't it? In Jersey it's called by a simple name: talking trash. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 23:42:32 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: M Belle Subject: M Belle Message: Hey M Belle, Thanks for your note to us about your situation (i.e., being a younger ex-premie and not having been thru the lord stuff). Your words ring true about Rawatt yelling at the premies. It's nice for people to see us as we are here. Hey Shp, aren't you late for a program or something? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 02:04:00 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Run, don't go sugar coating Message: your sarcasm just for lil ol me! As a matter of fact, I just got back from a very neat place called the Old Bay where King Ernest was doing his blues thang with a rockin band. He was very cool, been around a long time, won the W.C. Handy Award for his blues, and looked like Mick Jagger's stage presence teacher. He was the genuine article. And the Old Bay Amber had more % in it than I expected for two beers. I love you, Runamok. Yeah, I have a life. How's yours? The program's inside 24/7. I got a box seat reserved for the season. Mid-court right on the floor. Best seat in the house. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 12:46:38 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: SHP Subject: Answers to Common Qs Message: In Jersey it's called by a simple name: talking trash In California we call it 'speaking truth to power' and also 'setting the record straight.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 16:48:34 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: JW Subject: Answers to Common Qs Message: In California we call it 'speaking truth to power' and also 'setting the record straight.' Word. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 22:19:41 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: JW Subject: There's a difference... Message: between talking truth to power and setting the record straight and some of what goes on here on both sides. It makes me sick when a premie posts stupid and likewise for an ex. Posting stupid does no one any good and makes things worse. I have never 'tabloid posted' just to piss somebody off, and I consider it immature and counterproductive. It may have therapeutic properties in certain cases, and then it's usually funny to everybody except the ones who may need to laugh at themselves at little more. Look, I understand and can appreciate how serious you take this site and the lives of those who find sanctuary here. I am sad that this whole seeming paradox exists, but it does and must be dealt with from the heart, whatever one may believe about Maharaji. For some unexplainable reason, I am not moved to renounce him. It's not that I don't believe folks here, it's just that a story can be told so many different ways. Ever hear about the Russian horse and the American horse that had a race in Russia? The American horse won. In the Russian newspapers reported that the Russian horse came in 2nd and the American horse came in next to last. I need more perspectives before I would ever just bale. And Knowledge works for me. All due repsect. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 18:10:48 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: SHP Subject: I Give Up. Message: I couldn't care less whether you 'bail' SHP. I don't care whether you are moved to renounce Maharaji. I don't think anyone here does. But as for a discussion with you, I think it's impossible. As far as I am concerned you either are anti-intellectual or a bit off balance because it seems impossible for you to even stay on a subject. I think there is no communicating with you in any rational way. I suggest you get some help on this, I really mean it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 20:29:40 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: JW Subject: No specifics? Message: If you cannot be specific about what you are talking about, I have no way to respond. I'm not saying you are doing this deliberately, but this tactic paralyzes the conversation and does not allow me to respond because of your sweeping belittlement without actual reasons. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 18:30:13 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: SHP Subject: A suggestion Message: Ever hear about the Russian horse and the American horse that had a race in Russia? The American horse won. In the Russian newspapers reported that the Russian horse came in 2nd and the American horse came in next to last. I try to take this approach in weighing the evidence also. I think its wise to. Unbiased assertions are rare. What about you? Are you unbiased? Aren't you on Maharaji's side? Have you really just taken whatever evidence exists and measured it without prejudice? Maybe it's time to sit down with pen and paper and write down all the pros and cons you've been confronted with and see what you come up with. Just a suggestion. And Knowledge works for me. That doesn't mean M is not a fraud. Didn't you ever wonder what M had to do with your experience of Knowledge? Do you think its by his grace that you experience what you do? If you do, maybe you should examine that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 20:25:52 (EST)
From: chr Email: None To: SHP Subject: Answers to Common Qs Message: SHP, what's your motivation for posting here? I don't quite understand. You seem to think most of what goes on here is 'trash', not to mention misguided and totally uninspiring. Why hang out here then? Wouldn't you have more enjoyable and inspiring interactions with some of the people on the premie forums who regularly post about how they wake up each day and thank M for such a beautiful life etc? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 22:25:25 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: chr Subject: Answers to Common Qs Message: I never said 'most' of what is posted here is trash. I like some of you and enjoy communicating with yas. Some premies make me sick. Some ex-premies make me sick. Some premies I really like. Some ex-premies I really like. No borders. Love is the strongest force in the universe. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 02:38:20 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: SHP Subject: Shp, the common cultist Message: You are so full of yourself, SHP. You really have no idea what people who get pissed at you on the forum are seeing when they do. You can sit it out until someone tells you that you are sensitive for a premie, then coast on your anecdotal tales about your goings on and your family life. Then hit us with a few premie cliches and Jesus raps when we're stretched to our maximum tolerance. Hit us with some slinky slimey hippie slang about your latest adventure. Then slide the new age aphorisms in. Complaining about positivity and love is like beating a dog, right? These exes who complain about that shit will never get away with it. Their own will contradict them. Meanwhile the door has been left open. Every slimey premie in the universe decides that it is time for a Miragey moment on the ex-premie forum. You could go to the forum set up for premies or probably Bobby's forum about spiritual experiences is still around. Since you asked me if I have a life or something like that- Yes, I do and I don't share it with premies! I also want to repeat what I said and try to hear it (duh read it asshole): YOU REALLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT PEOPLE WHO GET PISSED AT YOU ON THE FORUM ARE SEEING WHEN THEY DO. You are so far gone from communication with me- so out of touch with this flesh and blood person. Please have the civility to refrain from telling me you love me. It would engender greater respect if you threatened me physically, since I personally consider you to be a third rate con who is wasting our time by his presence on this forum. PS I mean it, so please maintain a civil distance in terms of formality (i.e. we ain't bros) if you plan to maintain any type of respectful possiblity of communication with me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 08:52:32 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: SHP Subject: Don't work my nerve, SHP Message: I have better things to do than to have to delete threatening posts from premies like yourself who have been around long enough to have seen this discussed here. You wrote: I can go pretty much wherever I want to. People died so you and I could be free. You can go pretty much wherever you're ALLOWED to. People have been blocked from posting here so the forum can continue to exist. To paraphrase your words: '(That was to engender your respect... felt good typing it too!) PS I mean it, so please maintain a civil distance in terms of formality if you plan to maintain any type of possiblity of communication with anyone here. Over and out.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 11:02:05 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Brian Subject: Don't work my nerve, SHP Message: Brian: In good faith I thought I was complying with your request on the last post. You are 100% absolutely right, my freedom of movement is definitely limited by anyone who doesn't want me around. I see now on re-read how it could have been taken as arrogance. Please excuse my inarticulate words. The thing about engendering respect was in response to your comment that you'd rather be spoken to that way, and I was trying to lighten it up. Honest to whatever you believe, I really meant no harm, threats, or ill will. The thing about people dying so we could be free was in reference to wars fought to presrve human freedoms. I don't understand how that was threatening. But if it was, please accept my sincerest apologies. I feel for everyone here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 20:37:40 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: SHP Subject: to SHP - deleted post Message: Hi Sandy - Here's why your post got deleted: It didn't have anything to do with your mention of engendering respect, or about people dying so we could be free. It was deleted because you told Runamok you were going to 'kick his ass'. This is a violent threat, and we delete all posts containing violent threats, whether they're against ex-premies, premies, Maharaji, or anyone else. (If you haven't read it already, please see the 'Forum Introduction' for more information on this policy.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 03:28:01 (EST)
From: JACK THE REAPER Email: None To: Johnnie Michele Subject: Pictures Message: thank you so very much for the pictures. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 09:42:26 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JACK THE REAPER Subject: Jagdeo's picture! Message: Here is the link to the picture of one of m's most trusted instructors: Mahatma Jagdeo The picture is 20 years old, but the guy hasn't changed much. I've immediately recognised him the last time I saw him in 95 or 96. He's got gray hair, a few wrinkles, still small and slim, that's all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 13:27:09 (EST)
From: bill-It's for the war Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: don't look at that G-mom. Message: Thanks JM I downloaded it for use. Would you look at that left eye. A maniac's eye. The other one is no spiritually realized beings' eye either. His unholy hands are right up for view. This is the perfect shot of him JM. It will make the rounds I can promise you that. Now to collect all the posts related to him. You can erase it whenever you want. Or, it could be part of a page that tells the tale of him in honor of G's MOM and others. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 00:48:57 (EST)
From: Maharaji Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Greetings from India Message: Greetings to everyone back in the west. I am safely in my home country where with my money I can buy devotees if I want to. To those of you who still worship me. So long suckers! Just remember what I told you in 1972 with a heavy indian accent. 'The knowledge will teach you the knowledge.' I will stay in touch through the internet so do not discontinue your credit card donations. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:20:24 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Maharaji Subject: Greetings to India Message: Hi Prem Pal, nice to hear from you! What a surprise. I once wrote you a letter, but I think you didn't reply. You know, you screwed up a few things in my life quite badly. And, a friend of mine- an ashram preime - committed suicide, and another donated about one million to you. He hates you now, you know. Why don't you a) admit that you were terribly wrong about being the Lord of the universe? b) why don't you apologize to all who lost ten years of their lives in your ashrams? c) why don't you handle Jagdeo over to the police? Those three things to begin with. If you do that, maybe we can start to communicate. your ex-disciple, now fellow human being Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 13:36:19 (EST)
From: Maharaji Email: None To: Happy Subject: You wanna know the truth? Message: You can't handle the truth! Besides I've been giving you the truth. What you see is what you get. I don't reply to your letter that means 'no answer.' What? You need me to spell it out in black and white for you? Okay, I ain't admitting nothing. That's for suckers like you and your friends. A million dollars! Your friend's lucky you he didn't have two million dollars or he'd have that to cry about too. As for your other friend. I didn't kill anyone. Try and prove otherwise. And you, I don't really give a flying f**k what happened to you. Enough about Jagdeo already. He's my buddy and sets me up with more chicks than any ten western premies I know. Leave him alone. Now let me give you a piece of advice there former premie o' mine. You better understand power if you want a piece of me because I don't respond to anything else. Least of all some wimpy 'devotee' who is trying to get me to be reasonable. Jesus Christ, I cannot believe you old timers still want an apology. Bunch of arrested adolecents is all you are. How's that for communication? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 13:53:37 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Maharaji Subject: Why don't you Message: write us some poetry from India? You know, I love and admire your poetry sooo much! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 17:03:32 (EST)
From: Mahrji Email: None To: Happy Subject: Poetry? Message: Poetry? Well er uh... My staff is ah.. on vacation and I ah.. well Maybe I can crank out a few lines. Let's see here. Rosa's good in bed, Violet is too, Cognac tastes sweet, when I'm feeling blue. I give em' the knowledge, of what I don't know, They give me money, that's what makes this go. Practical knowledge, is what I tell em they'll get, But when they try to use it, they know I'm all wet. By then it's all over, the deed has been done, They cry in their beer, while I'm out having fun. I've done it for years, and few have caught on, Met no resistance, and so I move on. I am getting tired, of this poetry stuff The travel's a hassle, I've 'bout had enough. So goodbye to the premies, goodbye to you all I've given and given, with no gratitude from you at all. There what a beaut. Have that right up on my web site in no time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 00:33:02 (EST)
From: Memphis Belle Email: None To: Mahrji Subject: M has moved to India? Message: What are you guys talking about? please fill me in. Has M moved back to India for good. Is he still doing programs. I have no idea what's going on Is he only going to communicate via the internet now? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 10, 1999 at 17:51:47 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Maharaji Corrects His Lie Message: I just tripped over to maharaji.org and I discover that it has been CHANGED....... Remember a week or so ago there was a discussion here about Maharaji's statement on his website that he 'holds' a patent for a watch? [I ran off a copy of that page and so I have proof he said that.] Remember that? Remember how Gerry did a patent search and nothing showed up? Well, now the shcheister has CHANGED the statement, maybe as a result of what was said here. NOW it says: 'He (Maharaji) has invented a number of aviation related applications and products and a watch for which a patent is pending. Well, Gerry caught him in the big lie and because he could prove it, he changed the statement. No, he doesn't HOLD a patent, it's just PENDING. This is all too funny. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 10, 1999 at 18:16:51 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: The monitors Subject: The plot sickens... Message: Just when I was beginning to think that M's entourage (lawyers, advisers, etc.) were likely bored with monitoring this discussion, someone, M, has tipped his cards. So... Hi Maharaji! Hi guys! It's just beginning to roll. Fasten your seat belt. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 10, 1999 at 18:17:02 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: JW Subject: Maharaji Corrects His Lie Message: Maharaji also neglects to mention that he was refused a patent on the meditation he invented. But he doesn't say why. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 10, 1999 at 18:28:24 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Rick Subject: Maharaji Corrects His Lie Message: Very true Rick. Plus, ANYONE can have a patent PENDING. You can submit any infantile piece of shit and say it's PENDING. God, he must think people are idiots. Plus, any delusion any of us might have had that BM and his minions aren't monitoring every, single word that gets posted here is out the window! So: Hi Maharaji, how are ya guy? Hey, can I have my $30,000 trust fund back that I gave you right before Millennium, you little turd? What did you do with it by the way? Buy a gold toilet and a BMW? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 10, 1999 at 18:41:58 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: JW Subject: Maharaji Corrects His Lie Message: Plus, any delusion any of us might have had that BM and his minions aren't monitoring every, single word that gets posted here is out the window! 'out the window'? 'delusional'? How dare you! I resemble that remark. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 10, 1999 at 19:04:37 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: JW Subject: Maharaji Corrects His Lie Message: Well, don't forget, he didn't offer up the pending part until Gerry discovered there was no patent. You have to give him credit for realizing that holding a patent is worth more than one pending. Imagine what BM would say if someone discovered there was NO watch. The website would be revised to say 'Maharaji has an idea for a watch that would revolutionize time-telling'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 04:45:06 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: JW Subject: Maharaji Corrects His Lie Message: How much does it cost to have a patent pending? We can apply for one on the techniques. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 10, 1999 at 22:19:51 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: JW Subject: Congrats Ger! you were right! Message: I was wrong! I actually believed that my ex-guru had it together enough to not lie about a stupid ridiculous watch patent! Oh well, I guess I'll always be a dreamer. Thanks for shattering my dream, bro. Seriously though, doesn't this feel sort of like the Twilight Zone? I mean, hell, if he is willing to adjust his claims about the watch patent because of what we say, why doesn't he come out and admit he really had no business pretending to be a guru? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 10, 1999 at 23:44:34 (EST)
From: Gerry Email: None To: John Subject: Hey CD and SHP, Message: what do you think of the Lard's 'mistake?' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 00:31:56 (EST)
From: THC Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Hey CD and SHP, Message: Hey, anyone can make a mistake. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 08:41:54 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: THC Subject: Hey CD and SHP, Message: THC, Mistakes are mistakes, but lies are deliberate. My read is that this watch thing is a matter of fine tuning, not an insidious plot to brainwash us all to believe that Maharaji is Leonardo da Vinci or somebody. Some folks are paying so much attention to the mosquito on the windshield they don't see the 18-wheeler. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 08:55:25 (EST)
From: AJW Email: anthginn@yahoo.com To: SHP Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: Hi SHP, You wrote, 'Some folks are paying so much attention to the mosquito on the windshield they don't see the 18-wheeler.' I completely agree with you. I take it by the '18 wheeler', you mean the money sucking cult, yoga techniques sold as an experience of God, and confused Indian bloke who thinks he's greater than God. Anth. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 09:35:38 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: AJW Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: AJW, you wrote, 'I take it by the '18 wheeler', you mean the money sucking cult, yoga techniques sold as an experience of God, and confused Indian bloke who thinks he's greater than God.' You speak with forked tongue. You know that's not what I meant and you are sarcastically lying, not an accident or mistake. Why? Who do you think you are fooling? Who are you trying to impress? You are so angry. I wish you could express yourself without it so we could communicate better. For now, your anger overshadows anything else you are trying to get across. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:04:21 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: SHP Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: Tell us what you do mean by the 18 wheeler. Because that's what I thought you meant. I mean, I think the watch patent is an absurd issue, as I stated when the original fuss was made because the real issue is that this guy Maharaji is not really 'our mother and father', 'the superior power in person', etc., all that stuff that he at one time claimed to be. So again, what do you mean by the 18 wheeler that we should be paying attention to? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:09:29 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: John Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: The proverbial 18 wheeler is whatever it is in each of our lives that we have allowed in our way which stops us from enjoying life to its fullest and having the highest, most ineffible experience of Life that is our birthright to have. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:18:15 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: SHP Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: So in order to have the brightest experience of life, many of us have rejected the idea of an intermediary, especially a corrupt one, as a way to happiness. Life can be enjoyed to the fullest without Guru as intermediary I do not think that exposing GM and his corrupt ways is focussing on minutae that takes us away from enjoying life. It's just pointing out corruption, pure and simple. See alot of us here don't have our happiness tied into Maharaji anymore. And so having a discussion about him, or even getting angry about him doesn't detract from the happiness (the 18 wheeler) we now have in our lives. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:25:09 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Helen Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: HI Helen, I'm working on my own life. I'm not a missionary. I am still somewhat weak,, ignorant and filled with the impurities of this world, but it feels like alot less now than before receiving Knowledge. (So then you say it could have happened anyway or some other way...and I say if grandma has balls, she be grandpa) It works for me....whatever floats your boat. Love ya. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:39:05 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: SHP Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: Hi shp, I am imperfect too, all of us are. I know you are a sincere spiritual seeker and I know you are trying hard to realize something. I think cp said there was a differentiation between the soul and the spirit. I really woke up to that when she said that. Then Diz told me about a book by Thomas Moore that deals with this subject. I want to read that book. I think a lot of spiritual paths deal with the spirit so much but the soul can be deprived (this is what cp was saying). That really happened to me when I was into Gurus and meditating a lot. I felt like I was never worthy, like I could never be absolved (like the ALanis Morrisette song) and I felt disconnected from people and life. Inside I was miserable because I wasn't dealing with real life practical issues like 'Why can't I get along with my mom?' or 'Why can't I seem to find a nice guy to settle down with?' Once I stopped putting that heavy spiritual trip on myself and started dealing more with practical life, and nourishing my soul more with music, fun, reading, etc, I started feeling a lot more balanced. Maybe in 'this lifetime' I'm not meant to be a high spiritual person, I just want to be a person, period. The years since I left Maharaji I have devoted to learning how to be human. I don't want to realize 'the light' anymore. I have enough to do here on earth Respectfully yours Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 12:26:40 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Helen Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: Hey Dog Lady, Yeah, I can relate to some of what you said. So much going on day to day who has time for the cosmic? Well, I see both in each other now...the cosmic is in the mundane and the mundane is cosmic. It's all one thing. And the light inside is just as essential for my life as the sun in the sky. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 13:40:07 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: SHP Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: I am still somewhat weak, ignorant and filled with the impurities of this world. You don't seem weak to me, and what 'impurities' are you talking about -- pesticides, PCBs, air pollution, what? And what is the meaning of 'this' before 'world.' What other world is there? See, I reject this idea that we are impure and need to be purified by some kind of practice. That's very Hindu, very Catholic, very nuts and a recipe for unhappiness through an unhealthy duality. This in my opinion based on experience gotten the hard way. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 23:29:24 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: JW Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: Hey JW, Doesn't posting here provide what seems to be a purifying experience for you? Isn't this your new meditation? 'This world' refers to the material-plane illusory and constantly changing world and all the mass media and physical, emotional and psychic pollution. Yes, there are other 'worlds', all part of the One. As a matter of fact, we are in a rather new one right here in cyberspace. Some live in the world of thought and ideas...but here I am explaining something, and I get the nagging feeling you already know, but you play possum to bring me or someone else out to debate with. Do you take care about what you eat? If so,why? Perhaps is it to keep yourself free of impurities? Or maybe you are a goat and will eat anything. In the act of cleaning out the body and mind of wrong thinking and poisons on all levels, what's your problem with that? What do you think recycling and the whole environmental movement is doing? Purifying our Mother Earth maybe? Why oh why? Maybe because it's been trashed and those conscious enough to act are doing something about it. I don't believe in original sin, I believe in original innocence. Cleaning out is just smart. Animals do it. People do it. Nature does it. Hurricanes are big vaccuum cleaners for the atmosphere. So what's your problem? I accept myself as I am, and I approach the purification of my being with excitement and optimism, not Catholic guilt or what ever the heck you were talking about. What's your background. Methinks thou protests too much. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 17:30:15 (EST)
From: Sandra Email: None To: SHP Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: ' (So then you say it could have happened anyway or some other way...and I say if grandma has balls, she be grandpa)' Ha! At last....I knew somebody here would have a sense of humor. Permission to steal your line when I need it? Best, Sandra Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 23:31:24 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Sandra Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: If grandma doesn't mind, it's OK by me! 8>) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:28:59 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: SHP Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: I don't find these discussions detract at all from the ineffable experience of life. Why do you assume that it does? I mean your using the words '18 wheeler', as if there is this humongous problem. What is the humongous problem in your life? I won't laugh really. I'm actually a very good listener. I am really interested as to what is bearing down on you with the force of an 18 wheeler. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 12:33:01 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: John Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: Whaddayu, a shrink or sumptin? I am talking about the human experience, not my own circumstances. For all of us, the humongous problem is unconsciousness on a moment to moment basis. (no paranoia, just awareness). It (unconsciousness) can even kill if we are crossing the street unconscious with a bus coming down the road, or flip a rude driver the bird for cutting in..and he shoots us because anger tricked us into the mess..... Look at your own set of circumstances...I'm sure you have plenty. Mine are not the issue here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 12:36:05 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: SHP Subject: Birthright? Message: shp: According to whom is it YOUR birthright to have an 'ineffible experience of Life?' You really are getting down to the most basic level here. Why do you think that it's your birthright to do/have anything other than what you have right now? Because a few books filled with ancient thoughts say so? The only 'birthright' that I see that we have for certain, is the right to life after birth. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 23:40:30 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mike Subject: Birthright? Message: So you have a right to life after birth? For how long? What about the kids who are stillborn? What about SIDS? Who said you have a right to anything? You believe what you want and I'll believe what I want. I know I have a birthright to the most meaningful experience that Life has to offer because I am in touch with the same power, love and intelligence that those who wrote those books were in touch with. We still live in Biblical times. Hindsight is always 20/20, but it's sometimes hard to see the forest for the trees in the here and now. Why do I get to feel this good and hopeful? Because I wanted it, because I asked for it, because I had faith in its existence. The Way is not a carnival sideshow anybody can get into for two bits. I know I'm not better than anybody. And this happened to me before I ever met Maharaji. Knowledge was and continues to be an integral part of the process. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 10:20:37 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: SHP Subject: Birthright? Message: shp: You are obsfucating. 'What abouts' don't answer my questions. 'What abouts' are questions, not answers. I SAY AGAIN: YOU said that you have a particular birthright and I asked why you thought that. YOU DIDN'T ANSWER the question, at all! Try again. You say that you are in touch with 'that power.' Ok, so when did you become liberated? Have you seen god face-to-face? Please describe in as much detail as you can. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 02:16:48 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mikey Subject: Birthright, sleep tight Message: Dear Mikey, Your post is a tall order for me at this point in time. I am seeing your post about 2 am as I scan around before crashing. Please forgive me for not answering you in depth right now. I will look at this again tomorrow and take a stab at it. Mikey: I SAY AGAIN: YOU said that you have a particular birthright and I asked why you thought that. YOU DIDN'T ANSWER the question, at all! Try again. OK, over the weekend. It's just the story of my life you are asking me to spill. Mikeleh: You say that you are in touch with 'that power.' Ok, so when did you become liberated? Have you seen god face-to-face? Please describe in as much detail as you can. Did I say I had become liberated? I don't recall saying that. Have I seen God face to face? I don't know. Some experiences I have had feel like it. I'll put in more on this when I can focus better. And this ain't obfukation, I'm wasted on two beers that were stronger than I realized and it's 2 am. And I sold some stranger 6 months of clean food on my new job today...no additives, preservatives, hormones, colorings, etc, and drove about 100 miles to do it. So please understand that I am not avoiding your inquiry, just not prepared or alert for this task right now. Catch ya over the weekend, Lord willing. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 00:35:04 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mike Subject: Reply to Mike Message: Mike, I don't see my internal organs but I have faith that they are there. I don't see my soul or my spirit but I acknowledge and recognize their existence. I don't see my conscience but I feel its presence. I don't see my birthright but I have faith that it exists. You have asked me to explain something that is part of me and has been from a very early age. It's a heritage thing, a cultural thing, and something experienced independent of family and culture later on as an adult. Besides all that, the U.S. Declaration of Independence, hardly considered a religious document (even though alot of it is inspired writing) speaks of our unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Despite its shortcomings, that document spells out some basic birthrights of human beings. Embedded in those rights are all the other ones unmentioned. Freedom of religion or expression to a Creator is also acknowledged as a birthright, with the United States as a haven and sanctuary for those who wish to live in freedom. No, it hasn't all come true yet and there are still problems to face and work out. But the blueprint exists. You referred to some old writings sort of flippantly and asked if I thought I had birthrights based on some ancient writings. to a degree, yes, because those old writings ring true inside of me and I trust that. Birthrights can be ripped off, I am not saying that I am entitled to something and it is guaranteed to happen. In that event, I can still experience what is mine by keeping my peace in the face of chaos. (I saw Schindler's List on TV tonight...they had a birthright too, and for some it got ripped off, and for others they survived to tell the tale for all eternity, so it never happens again.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:08:36 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: SHP Subject: Anger Message: shp: Are you telling me that when you've been lied to that YOU don't get angry? Think carefully before you answer this. Now, you expect someone to put aside that anger? Holding anger inside is the absolute WORST thing that you can do. Stifling that expression is NOT normal or healthy, EVER! If you can't communicate with an angry person, then that is YOUR limitation not theirs. I can communicate with angry peopl just fine, why can't you? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:15:21 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mike Subject: Anger and fear are related Message: OK, I get angry. Not contest. For what...five, ten minutes? Then I calm down and figure out what I need to do to fix the problem. I'm not perfect yet, but I have identified anger as truly a 'deadly sin' because it kills the spirit, the vital life force, the hopes and dreams of a positive outcome of the host body. It is my mortal enemy and yours. Righteous indignation is different. But ya know what? I am learning that people are innately intelligent and respond better to intelligence, humor, good will and hope than to diatribe. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:24:24 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: SHP Subject: Anger and fear are related Message: Hi SHP, How do you differentiate between anger and righteous anger? Are you the arbiter of what kinds of anger is appropriate or inappropriate? I do agree with you that anger can swallow people up if they don't move on into the problem solving. But if someone steps on me, I will get angry. And if someone steps on people I care about I'll get angry too. I think anger has survival value. If I get angry inappropriately, I apologize. I don't think it's such a big deal. What's this 'host body' ? Your body is not part of you? You're just borrowing this body this time around? I'm curious. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 14:33:43 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Helen Subject: Anger and fear are related Message: I agree, Helen. Anger has real value for motivation and survival. But just like other feelings and emotions, it can blind and incapacitate you. But so can lust, fear, love and envy and a lot of other things. So can DEVOTION. What gets me is when people say, from some supposed spiritual high ground, that you shouldn't experience or express 'anger' or 'negativity.' I think it's because they fear those emotions. To me, that's just a recipe for repression and that's unhealthy. Certainly, you have to learn to express anger in the appropriate ways, but denying those feelings is not healthy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 16:26:09 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: JW Subject: Anger Message: Sorry I didn't see this post before now. I agree with you so much. And I like the way you said it here. I just don't think our emotions are bad and wicked. I get angry with my husband and kid and they get angry with me, it's not the end of the world. It's part of life. We love one another and that comes through but of course in the day to day there's a whole range of emotional expression. At times I know I've let my temper get the best of me, but that's all part of the learning experience. I used to be so repressed and think it was positively sinful to express anger. To pretend one doesn't feel it at all is not healthy, IMO. There's a balance to be found in it, as with everything in life. Trying to transcend my emotions fucked me up. This was when I was in my 'trying way too hard to be spiritual phase' that almost killed me!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 23:52:34 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Helen Subject: Anger and fear are related Message: Helen< Q: How do you differentiate between anger and righteous anger? A: For me, anger is extreme displeasure directed at any situation that did not meet an expectation. Expectations are attachments and attachments cause pain. Righteous indignation is fighting for the oppressed, the underdog, the victimized, the defenseless...to right a wrong. Q: Are you the arbiter of what kinds of anger is appropriate or inappropriate? A: Only for myself. I do observe how others operate, but I am not anybody's judge. Q: What's this 'host body' ? Your body is not part of you? You're just borrowing this body this time around? I'm curious. A: By 'host body' I meant the body of the person who is allowing anger to live within it and manifest through it, and thus do damage to it. Our bodies are as old as the creation, since nothing is created or destroyed, but rearranged. So our bodies are recycled atoms that have been around since the beginning. While I have the use of this treasure of a human body, I want to have the experiences in it that the Creator originally had in mind, not the high-tech cradle-to-grave programs the institutions have tried to implement and superimpose on humanity. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 12:42:32 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: SHP Subject: Creator???? What's that? Message: shp: ....... never mind Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 02:23:50 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mike Subject: Creator???? What's that? Message: I told this story before, and I'll try to condense it. 2 friends looking at the night sky, 1 believes in God, 1's an atheist. The first one sez 'ain't the creator great? Look at the heavens!' Atheist sez 'there ain't no creator, all this just happened.' next day believer assembles, paints and hangs a really cool mobile of the solar system in his room. atheist comes over and sez 'cool mobile, who made it?' believer sez 'nobody made it, it just happened...' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:52:26 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: SHP Subject: Anger discussion Message: 'but I have identified anger as truly a 'deadly sin' because it kills the spirit, the vital life force, the hopes and dreams of a positive outcome of the host body. It is my mortal enemy and yours.' So, hey bro, tell me your secret! How do you get rid of anger? You certainly can't just decide one day not to feel it anymore, right? I agree some anger is definetly deadly; but then again some anger is obviously of value. I mean if one is not supposed to get angry at injustice, then you may as well go live on a pole in the desert and renounce all human interaction. Also, I have to wonder what does suppressing anger do. But listen, I used to believe in not manifesting any negative emotions. In fact, to a certain extent I still believe that, but I have modified my position. I know with my children, getting angry can definetly do good, and it can be very harmful too. It depends on how it is handled, and also on so many other factors. So, I now think it all depends on the situation. There is no way to say, imo, all anger is my mortal enemy. Maybe the only all-encompassing statement I can make is that I think we all need to become self-aware. Is there anything else we need to do, as in modify our behavior, not get angry, not get sad, etc.? I don't really know. That's for each one of us to understand as each one of us becomes more self-aware. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 00:08:22 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: John Subject: Anger discussion Message: It is not necessary to suppress anger if one does not choose to pay attention to it in the first place. Haven't you gotten mad and later regretted it? The trick I am learning is to be conscious when anger rears its ugly head and says 'let's go', and instead choose another form of expression, not suppress. I may feel anger but I don't have to act on it. I am learning how to let it pass through me and deal with the problem from a place that will allow me to look back and be more in harmony with my behavior, having used patience, intelligence, empathy, compassion as much as possible. Why do you think they call getting angy 'losing it'? What did they lose? Composure, clear thinking, peace, health. I get angry. I get cold sometimes, too. But I know how to insulate myself better now in both situations and still function without letting either hurt me or anybody else. There is so much injustice in the world. Should I get angry? I'd be angry every day every minute of my life. Instead of living in the realm of effect, I strive to live the example I propound in the realm of cause. Anger is in the realm of reaction. I want to be in the realm of action, not reaction. For me, that is better use of my energy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 09:13:30 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: SHP Subject: Adios amigo! Message: I don't think we have much to say to each other SHP. You have some very strong, set spiritual ideas which I don't agree with. I am sure they are meaningful and wonderful to you, but I just can't relate to it. Anyway, see ya! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 02:26:31 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: John Subject: Vaya Message: con Dios, hermano! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 12:09:18 (EST)
From: AJW Email: None To: SHP Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: Hi SHP, I'm not why you are calling me a liar? What is my lie? That Elan Vital is a money sucking cult? I speak from experience here. Out of interest, how much has passed from your pocket to the organisation in the last year, including 'donations' to see videos, festival registration fees, festival merchandise etc etc.? Do you mean I'm lying when I say yoga techniques are sold as an expericnce of God. That's what I was I was led to believe, and that's what I told people afterwards. Do you think you experience God when you do the techniques? Or do you mean lying when I said an Indian bloke who thinks he's greater than God? To be honest, I don't know if Maharaji still thinks he's greater than God. Lots of premies do. Do you SHP? He's not said anything to correct this possible misconception. In 1970 he said he'd come to earth with more power than ever before, so who knows what he thinks. What do you think he thinks? Finally, what was angry about what I said? I really don't feel angry. I feel quite mellow at the moment. By the way, I've always enjoyed reading your posts. (I'm not trying to be sarcastiic here SHP, I often felt quite sympathetic to your views) Do we know each other? AJW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 02:30:56 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: AJW Subject: The 18 Wheeler. Message: To call someone a liar is an extreme and volatile act. I retract my calling you a liar. I don't share your opinions about Maharaji. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 08:36:17 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Hey CD and SHP Message: Gerry, First it said he had a patent, but he really had a patent pending. And it was changed in order to be completely accurate. He does hold the patent which is pending. No lie. It is my understanding that when someone has a patent pending, they can go into production. Haven't you seen manufactured goods with the words 'patent pending' on them? The line is so long and the process has so much red tape that it takes awhile...the U.S. Patent Office is a very typical government bureacracy. I have looked getting something patented myself and it's a trip. You are straining at gnats and swallowing camels, as Jesus is said to have commented when he was hassled by his critics over piddly shit. He'd say 'get the 2 x 4 out of your own eye before you try to get the speck out of someone else's.' True as the day it was spoken. I hope you have the most incredible day of your life today. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 11:02:14 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: SHP Subject: Double standards Message: He does hold the patent which is pending. No lie. How do you know this? Maybe this is a 'mistake' too. How can it be verified where you can say with such authority that its 'no lie'. Besides, who cares if he has a patent or patent pending? What's that supposed to prove, that he's a true master because of it? What's he trying to appeal to by telling us about his patent? Our deep thirst for truth? Hardly. He's just trying to make an impression in a manner he would ridicule somebody else for. He's a man of double standards. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 00:15:13 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Double standards Message: If I felt someone was living by double standards, I'd put as much distance between myself and that person as possible and fill my life with positive stuff to share with others. Maybe you sincerely believe you are providing a service by pointing out what you believe is true about Maharaji. I just don't happen to share your viewpoint. I don't care if he made a watch or not. He can put anything he wants to on his website and you can do the same here. Great thing freedom of speech and expression, ain't it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 11:17:44 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: SHP Subject: Double standards Message: Maybe you sincerely believe you are providing a service by pointing out what you believe is true about Maharaji. I just don't happen to share your viewpoint. All I'm saying is that, while I can't quote Maharaji verbatim, the overall impression I got from him is that he frowns upon people who are proud of their worldly achievements, that he thinks they're foolhardy for having such pride. Didn't you ever get this impression? Now, what's he doing at his website? He's bragging left and right about his own achievements. That doesn't strike you has being a double standard? How is it not? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 02:37:02 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Jerry Subject: He busts on friendship, Message: marriage and many other human activities which he and many people including myself partake of. My read is that none of it matters without (or supercedes) the dimension of Knowledge. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 18:00:59 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: SHP Subject: He busts on friendship, Message: Than it becomes elitist. 'I can partake of these worldly pleasures because I have Knowledge. I'm detached. You aren't. You can only drown in this maya.' Utter rubbish! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 20:47:35 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Jerry Subject: He busts on friendship, Message: I have a family, friends, pursuits other than Knowledge, interests, hobbies. I didn't give any of it up. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 21:06:11 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: SHP Subject: He busts on friendship, Message: But you do believe that without Knowledge all of these other interests are fruitless. Right? At least, that's what YOU say Maharaji says. Do you agree with him? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 10:39:28 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Jerry Subject: He busts on friendship, Message: Without something greater than just the physical experience, I don't think life would or could be as deeply experienced, enjoyed or appreciated. (Please note I said 'I don't think'...just so nobody accuses me of preaching) For me, Knowledge provided that. I can't speak for anyone else. And I remember back in the '70's he said something about him not being everybody's GM. So however it happens for each individual to make contact with their life on a higher or deeper level, I think that enriches one's life and evolves the species further out of the material plane consciousness which we have sunken into over our existence....back to our full powers of human attributes, senses beyond the five physical ones, and the ability to love in a greater way. (Once again, I'm just trying to express my point of view in reply to your post, not preach, teach or be a wise guy. If there's wisdom it it, great for all of us. I don't claim to own it, I'm just passing along something I had come across and thought it worth repeating.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 13:48:38 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: SHP Subject: WRONG, SHP Message: He does hold the patent which is pending. No lie. Yes it is a lie. If a patent it PENDING, you do not HOLD anything, certainly not a patent, because you don't have a patent, there isn't one, at least not yet, you have only applied for one and it's quite possible your application will be DENIED. The first statement was wrong if the second is correct. It is my understanding that when someone has a patent pending, they can go into production. You can go into production with no patent nor an application. Whether you are in production is entirely irrelevent as to whether you 'hold' a patent or not. I also don't think the patent issue is important in light of the other awful things Maharaji has done, and failed to do. I just think his deception is shown by his webpage, one of which is lying about whether or not he holds a patent. He certainly lied about the 'leader' comment as well. But if it's not important SHP, why are you taking the time to defend his false statement? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 00:23:51 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: JW Subject: WRONG, BAD, NO-NO Message: JW, You remind me of this guy John McLaughlin who has a TV commentary show on weekend mornings...political pundits, that sort of thing. He does this number of asking one question around the panel and then roars out 'WRONG!' and his turkey neck shakes above his fancy tailored stiff collar and silk tie. What he really means to say is: 'I don't agree with you.' But it's his show..... That is the difference between expressing yourself and judging others. I am learning not to judge, just to express where I am at. It gets the same job done, but in what feels to me like a more evolved way. I am not defending anyone's statements, just sharing what I know about patents. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 01:18:54 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: SHP Subject: Okay, but still WRONG Message: I am not defending anyone's statements, just sharing what I know about patents. This is fine, SHP, I just pointed out that you apparently didn't know very much. John McLaughlin drives me to distraction. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 01:40:25 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: JW Subject: JWWWWW...WWWWWRONGGGGGG!!!!!! Message: I watch McLaughlin for laughs. As for patent information, the whole process sucks in America. Inventors are exposed to the sharks like baitfish, while I have heard that in other countries inventors are treasured and protected. As for holding a patent versus having a patent pending, in most cases I believe that the patent pending goes through since the search is done already and one is just waiting for the red tape and paperwork to get completed and processed. Semantically speaking, there is probably a slight difference. If M enjoys this kind of pastime and talking about it, it's no skin off my back. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 20:32:31 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: SHP Subject: SHP YOU ARE SHOUTING TOO MUCH Message: DEAR, SINCE YOU KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT THIS WATCH BUSINESS, DO YOU THINK YOU COULD FIND OUT IF MAHARAJ JI STILL HAS MY GRANDMOTHER'S HEIRLOOM WATCH? AS MY LOVELY IRISH AUNTS WOULD SAY 'HIS CRONIES AND THEIR SHENANIGANS FINANGLED OUT FROM UNDER ME' DO YE ALSO KNOW IF KATHY CITUK IS STILL ONE OF HIS SECS? NOW TAKE A DEEP BREATH and stop SHOUTING. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 02:41:35 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Mary M, JW and I were playing Message: I was imitating John McLaughlin from TV who JW and I were talking about. I am being polite and explaining it to you instead of advising you to mind your own business because I'm a gentleman and your brother in God's way. Sorry if I offended you in any way shape or form, my sister. Are you the shout police? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 09:00:53 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: SHP Subject: You still shout too much Message: Nah, not the shout police! Just trying to clue you in on the basics of NETIQUETTE! Can you spell FORUM? Has your multimedia school taught you about 'taking it offline'? Oh gee, that would require a name and e-mail address. Pretty frightening to someone who won't come out and reveal who they are...hmmmm sounds like that's a problem starting from the top down in your group! You do amuse me, that's about it. Think you could take your own advice and mind your own business? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 13:56:40 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Excuse me Message: Mary, I won't shout anymore. I already identified myself on the Forum awhile back. And I do have e-mail address too, which I have posted here in order to have a private conversation once in a while. So what I am hearing you say is that I should go offline if I want to play or joke with someone off-topic. OK. It's just that there was so much kidding around among others here, I thought it was OK. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 14:37:11 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: SHP Subject: Excuse me Message: Missing the point again SHP. I merely pointed out to you that this is a forum. [Forum: A public place or medium for discussion.] Ergo, all are allowed to comment on any post in the Forum. Get it? This Forum is not brought to you by Maharaj Ji et al. Therefore, we can publicly express our feelings. So, what is your name and e-mail address? Sincerely, Mary McGraw-Collins Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 14:40:21 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mary M Subject: reply Message: Sanford Pass mcpass1@earthlink.net Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 14:43:05 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: SHP Subject: reply Message: Thanks! Your honesty is greatly appreciated. Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 14:49:33 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mary M Subject: reply Message: Mary, I posted this information previously, but before doing so I had to take a deep breath and trust that the information would not be abused, having witnessed a few premie-skinnings, some righteous, some not. I can only hope that there's no malice involved. Hey, if I'm the guy who sez love is the strongest force in the universe (see Sheep Channel created by some very techsmart exers), I have to walk the walk as well. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 20:40:35 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mary M Subject: hyphenated last names... Message: I have been curious about something and I thought maybe you could help, since you have a hyphenated last name. What happens when two young people meet and fall in love and they both have hyphenated last names? If they marry, what will their last name be if they don't retain their own names? I've always wanted to know that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 23:38:36 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: SHP Subject: hyphenated last names... Message: It's up to the two people in love. Now that would be a good one to ask Prem Pal Singh Rawat. M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 10:51:34 (EST)
From: SHP Email: None To: Mary M Subject: hyphenated last names... Message: I was just curious how four last names could be included without dissing at least one of them....it was an honest question, no fooling around. It gives the two people in love a bit of a challenge I don't understand the reference to Prem Pal Singh Rawat. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:02:52 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: John Subject: Congrats Ger! you were right! Message: How would he say it though: 'I'm not really the Lord of the Universe and I never was' 'I had a LOTU addiction problem and I'm very sorry. I am now in a LOTU addiction support group and I am seeking help for my problem. One day at a time' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:18:45 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Helen Subject: Congrats Ger! you were right! Message: See, that's actually what he should say! I mean, it's not his fault he was raised to believe he was this incredible god figure. The only problem though, who else would be in his support group? I mean, who really knows the pain he has undergone? Maybe Jimmy Swaggert? Jim Bakker? Actually, there's probably plenty of fallen spiritual leaders around. Maybe we could market a program for them. What I would love to have access to are the sessions he had with the shrink/counselor/new age therapist? I heard he went to someone for counseling back in the 80's. Wouldn't you love to know how he described his problem? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:26:40 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: John Subject: Gooroo support group Message: The only problem though, who else would be in his support group? I mean, who really knows the pain he has undergone? Maybe Jimmy Swaggert? Jim Bakker? Actually, there's probably plenty of fallen spiritual leaders around. Maybe we could market a program for them. How about Marjoe? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:28:35 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: John Subject: Congrats Ger! you were right! Message: I would be curious as to who the therapist was. Was it a new agey therapist? Or a traditional psychotherapist? Was the therapist charmed by Maharaji? Did he or she have an 'experience' in the middle of the session? I mean the imagination flies on that one Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 11:43:41 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Helen Subject: LOTUs Anonymous Message: The 12 steps of LA: 1) We admitted we were powerless over our delusions and had ourselves become unmanageable. 2) Came to believe that we were NOT the higher power and that we could be restored to sanity. 3) Made a decision to turn our will and lives over to the care of God but not as WE understand him. 4) Made a fearless and moral inventory of ourselves. 5) Shared with another human being that we were only human too. 6) Were entirely ready to get off the pedestals that our devotees placed us on. 7) Humbly asked our devotees to realize their mistake, that we were not really LOTU. 8) Made a list of people we had harmed because of our delusions. 9) Made amends to those we had harmed even if it meant paying back a lot of money. 10) Continued to take personal inventory and promptly admitted it when we were wrong. 11) Sought through our psychiatrists what it meant to be a human being and strived for that goal only. 12) Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, made it our life's business to blow the whistle on other assholes who thought they were LOTU too. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 14:21:43 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jerry Subject: LOTUs Anonymous Message: That's great, Jerry!! Steps 4, 8, 9, 10 oughta take him the rest of his life! He'd better get started right away!! He's his own support group, can y'all think of any other Perfect Master who came clean (besides Krisnamurti)?. Not that GM has come clean,only in our imaginations! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:02:26 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: Maharaji is still a liar Message: JW: Thanks for the great info. He's a piece of work, isn't he? For those with weak eyes, read no further.... Now that I know that you are watching, Big M, I have something to say: FUCK OFF you damned liar, cheat and thief! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:41:17 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Mike Subject: Maharaji is still a liar Message: The lie is either that Maharaji DIDN'T create the web pages and choose the content - as the site claims - OR that he DID intentionally puff up his patent status from 'pending' to that of holding a patent. Methinks it's the former - that he sluffed off his 'webmastering' onto unpaid labor, while approving the final version. When the error was pointed out here, someone checked back with him on the actual status of his patent. In either case, he probably approved the original bloated boast - like the rest of his 'Journey'. This is a man who can't even come up with an original name for his personal history... I'm waiting for the Maharaji.Org version of the Premie White Pages... And for Forum Three, of course... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 10:56:11 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Brian Subject: Maharaji is still a liar Message: '' I'm waiting for the Maharaji.Org version of the Premie White Pages...'' Yeah, and for Getting Free he could use Becoming A Slave. And how 'bout Nuts and More Nuts Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 11:00:42 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Brian Subject: I'm starting to wonder if... Message: the whole site is just a hoax? It just seems too ridiculous - the poetry, the journey, the ridiculous security screen. The switcheroo on the watch patent. Something about it just seems too 'perfect'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 13:07:53 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: John Subject: Now THAT's a poser.... Message: John: Interesting thought.... conspiratorial thru and thru, but really an interesting thought. ;-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 18:19:08 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Mike & John Subject: Now THAT's a poser.... Message: Sounds logical to me. The old fake right run left. Ex-premie site being read by many of his western premies and he realizes he can't entertain them as well so he announces his site and premies wait with baited breath. Then the site comes out and they read it for one day, digest all the information then go back to reading the x page. Meanwhile he's packing to leave the country. If he's deciding to pack it in in the west he'll do it craftily like everything else. The rank and file won't know it's happened until he's gone. He may even announce a big program for the summer, a last hoorah giving him time to get his affairs in order. It doesn't really matter though most premies wouldn't realize he split for 5 years or more they'd just keep on hanging on...Some might think this is a stretch but hey who knows. He does what is in his best interests. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 11, 1999 at 16:13:26 (EST)
From: HALIP Email: None To: JW Subject: Maharaji Corrects His Lie Message: That 'correction' proves the bugger reads this site, folks ! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |