Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 42 | |
From: Mar 13, 1999 |
To: Mar 23, 1999 |
Page: 4 Of: 5 |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 13:06:52 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Dettmers and $100 million Message: Michael Dettmers is a PAM (Person Around Maharaji) who has held important high level posts at the national and international level in the various organizations (Divine Light Mission and Elan Vital) that have been used by Maharaji. Mr. Dettmers is very noticeable because of his distinctive haircut and his expensive clothing. He can be seen sitting in the PAM seating area near the stage at virtually all major and many minor programs where Maharaji speaks. Where is Michael Dettmers now? What is he doing? What is this Swiss-based Foundation that he was the Managing Director? And, what about the 100 million dollars that the Foundation earned in 1982? Michael Dettmers and the Swiss Foundation Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 13:19:01 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: Dettmers and $100 million Message: Well done, Drek. Very interesting, but I'm sorry ol' Michael has lost ALL his hair. The stress of being the right hand man of the Lord of the Universe for over a decade can do that to you. I find this entry on Michael's resume outrageous: As the Managing Director of a Swiss-based Foundation from 1973 to 1982, he organized educational programs and events in over 25 countries. He also managed its world-wide business operations including travel services, event management, health food services, and publications and video productions generating revenues in less of 100 million dollars in 1982. I happen to know that during this period, Dettmers was a bigwig in Divine Light Mission and later was head of something called 'The Office Of Guru Maharaj Ji.' Essently, he was the Lord's right-hand man for a number of years between 1973 and 1982. Maybe he was also director of some 'Swiss-based Foundation' that was part of the Guru-empire as well, or maybe that's the umbrella corporation for the whole empire, but isn't it interesting that he completely hides his involvement with Maharaji? Think he's embarrassed? This is resume misrepresentation, to say the least. I also notice 'Premark' the cult chain of grocery stores, is listed as one of his clients. But the $100,000,000 is an amazing number. Do you think the cult brought in that much money in 1982? I wouldn't be surprised. By the way, Drek showed me Dettmer's page a few weeks ago, and I e-mailed him to ask if he was still a devotee of Maharaji and if he remembered me. (I met him a few times, didn't know him well, although I knew, and liked his brother, Peter.) Funny, I never got any response. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 13:29:27 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JW Subject: $100 million find! Message: That's THE find! Dettmers was stilll involved in the EVF when I left EV, 2 years ago. I've heard a few times that he often used to travel with m in his jet, and that sometimes he was playing the VIP and m was playing the pilot to get in some places. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 13:41:13 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: $100 million find! Message: I agree, J-M, the $100,000,000 figure is a REAL find. I suggest ex-premies e-mail Michael and ask him about this and also his failure to mention his work for the Big M. And if Michael was still working directly with Maharaji just two years ago, that's makes his cover-up even more outrageous. So, J-M, what is this 'Swiss-based Foundation?' Does it have a name? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:45:17 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JW Subject: EV Swiss foundation Message: The EVF was established in the 80s, officially to fund m's tours, including pay for his jet, flying expenses, renting of halls in some instances etc. The first jets were OWNED BY THE EVF: that was no secret, and was widely publicised to attract donations. Finally some of m's lawyers supposedly decided that the EVF was not supposed to own anything. I doubt the reason. Now the jet is owned by some private company, and the EVF is renting the jet to the company for Mr Rawat (supposedly), maybe Dettmers or someone else. It was also said in the beginning that Marolyn, Dettmers & maybe some other persons were holding shares of the whole business. It looks like m decided that some of those pams should own his toys. The EVF receives huge donations from individuals, and from local EVs. Yoram Weisz (paid by EV) and some other instructors keep raising funds for the EVF. And it looks like that these donations pay for the BM's toys owned by some pams. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:08:28 (EST)
From: Bill Email: None To: JW Subject: e-mail to dettmers Message: Mike, Perhaps you think there is no god that is self aware and you think it is a oneness that doesn't really care if someone claims to be it. Perhaps you think anybody can just 'identify with the divine' and by assumption, just become the IT, and abscond with all the religious words in the dictionary, and proclaim themselves 'master of life' and that is ok with you. Perhaps you don't care that you were/are part and parcel of a damn big lie that prem rawat is the lord. Perhaps you don't care that arti and feet kissing is still going on and he is trying to foist himself off as master of life and the voice of god and there IS no god but him. What makes you so deceptive about your past? Why is the lord not in your resume? Have you lost your operetic heart? How much money did you squirrel away that was given under false pretenses and outright deception? Is money the only reference to go by to judge legitimacy? Since rawat has money that means life is saying his deception is ok? Is your 100 million figure honest? Or is the logic 'It's all illusion' figure prominently in your head so who cares about honesty? So, you cofounded the seat company in 88? Really mike, it is time for a reassesment of this life. You are a fraud. Bill Burke Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 00:02:51 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Bill Subject: Excellent Bill Message: Great e-mail. It almost reads like a poem. JW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 16:19:11 (EST)
From: Bob! Email: None To: Jean-Michel! Subject: $100 million find! Message: Maharaji retires! Jean-Michel orders snails! New scandals weekly! Jewels found in Joan Apter's misquote! SHP and Denise fall off their fences from the gang pressure! Wood on fences found to be sub-standard! Dettmers loses more hair! Jean-Michel has the haricot verts! Only 4 people attend worldwide satellite event but each is counted 22,318 times! Jean-Michel has a nice, red table wine! Gold plumbing fixtures smuggled in Joan Apter's hair! Maharaji suspected in deaths of 9 babies, all named Satganga or Irving Glickstein! Jean-Michel eyes the pretty redhead at the Café Montmartre! New Maharaji quote found from August, 1779 issue of Divine Light, 'I love to abuse small animals and always have, they're so annoying!' Cover-up alleged in laundry scandal at residence! Jean-Michel considers a nice clafoutis for dessert! Runamok and Nimrod continue to examine the alleged toilet and other plumbing fixtures! New clues in Lincoln assassination point to Fakirinand! Videos of hummingbirds outlawed in Rhode Island! Secret slush fund from Audobon Society thought to be going to Maharaji! Jean-Michel orders the creme brulée and a cognac instead! Insidious textbook dealers currently under investigation! Quote extracted from Denver, 1947 program, 'Principles are bad, intelligence is useless, don't earn any money and just follow me and do whatever I say...and, oh yeah, don't ever eat any fish!' Jean-Michel gives redhead cool but knowing smile...she flashes a big grin almost causing him to lose his sangfroid....'til he realizes she's looking at the giant, dashiki'd dude from Ghana behind him! Fence construction company sued for damages and emotional distress! Mata Ji wins suit and Judge tells Maharaji, 'the greatest sin is in naming babies Satganga!' Rich Neel suspected in heart attack death of music publishing mogul! Jean-Michel sighs and orders an espresso as the redhead and African leave café together! New scandals weekly! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 16:25:38 (EST)
From: Your Doctor Email: None To: Bob! Subject: Take your meds, Bob Message: Hey Bob, take your medication, okay? This is how you get when you forget to take it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 16:32:56 (EST)
From: Bob Dobbs Email: None To: Your Doctor Subject: Take your meds, Bob Message: Dr. Benway I presume? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 16:44:04 (EST)
From: Ben Dedacasey Email: None To: Bob Dobbs Subject: Take your meds, Bob Message: Reply to Bob Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 16:30:57 (EST)
From: HALIP Email: None To: Bob! Subject: $100 million find! Message: Dear Bob ! Hilarant, ton message ! And where did you learn how to spell all these french desserts'names ? I'm still laughing ! Happy and living in Paris ! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 16:32:57 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Bob! Subject: Anything and Everthing Message: about Maharaji and his followers. What did you expect when your clicked on the forum? Get your money back. I'm sure Brian will refund your money in full. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:44:20 (EST)
From: Nil! Email: None To: Bob! Subject: $100 million find! Message: That's hilarious! It's really getting like that isn't it. These guys are like the National Enquirer. Now watch, I'll get all kinds of flak from them telling me how credible and responsible a newspaper the National Enquirer is. Actually, I think JW's secretly hoping he gets abducted by aliens just for the sex. I mean, they're pretty open about that kind of stuff in San Francisco you know. Look for him at a news stand near you! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 03:23:02 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Nil! Subject: Here's your flak Homophobe! Message: My, oh my. How well you keep to the issues. At least the National Enquirer is more credible than good old www.maharaji.org! Please go there (and stay) for That Truth that is so much more palatable to you. Or maybe you'd like to try to discussing the issue as to why this so-called I smell something a little fishy in Zurich, don't you? No, you're too busy throwing up flak and making snide little comments. I'm sure glad that Knowledge has made you more of a human being than whatever you were before. I can't imagine what YOU must have been like. I'd say that's a real before and after example that Maharaji should use. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 20:45:06 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: Here's your flak Homophobe! Message: Or maybe you'd like to try to discussing the issue as to why this so-called Guru, Meditation Teacher Master needs such a ruse as a Swiss Foundation and, no doubt, secret numbered Swiss Bank Accounts for his mission of spreading peace, love, and joy to the World. Secret numbered accounts... you know that for sure or just 'embellishing' the facts. As for why he would need money to spread Knowledge... what the fuck would you have him do, panhandle for jet fuel? BTW, what makes you say I'm a homophobe? Are you just being defensive? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 23:28:55 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Nil Subject: One day I devote a page to you Message: Nil, Nice to finally meet you. You have not disappointed me in the least. You everything they say you are! Send me your bio, pictures, and whatever. I'll devote (oh,I like that word) an entire webpage to whatever you want. You'd really like it if I said I was gay, wouldn't you? Trying to get the old goat, huh? What if I am gay, what would that mean? What would you say about it? How do you really feel about gays? Come on, here's your chance. We can put it on your page. It's so funny, I can't help but feel sarcastic and rude towards you and I don't even know you. You seem to elicit that response. Do you get this from other people? People not having to do anything with ex-premies? I suspect it's your energy or something. This is quite odd. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 16:38:40 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: One day I devote a page to you Message: It's so funny, I can't help but feel sarcastic and rude towards you and I don't even know you. You seem to elicit that response. Do you get this from other people? People not having to do anything with ex-premies? I suspect it's your energy or something. This is quite odd. Maybe I'm turning you on Roger. Say if I am the catalyst for you to come out on the forum that's okay big guy... I can deal with it. BTW I saw your webpage... thanks just the same. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 03:07:09 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Nil Subject: Secret numbered Swiss accts Message: Nil, Of course I don't know for sure if there are secret numbered Swiss bank accounts. But, does a zebra have stripes? Come on, buddy, be real. You think that if you've got a Swiss Foundation that you are not doing some banking in Switzerland? Sure, I understand fully the need to fund the operation to accomplish the stated goals. And I am realistic that it's going to cost a lot of money. I don't even begrudge the private corporate jet. From a business standpoint it all makes perfect sense. However, having the Swiss based foundation and assuming like a realistic person that there are secret numbered bank accounts makes me question what else is going on. I'm actually one of the more lenient people on the Forum in regards to Maharaji. I had powerful experiences from him and always had a mostly positive experience. And I actually kinda like him because he can be somewhat funny. But, I don't know his private side and from what I've read on the Forum from people who have been there is that he might not be such a nice guy. So, you see I am still in a process of discovery on how I feel about him. And, in doing this expose I am finding that I am extremely suspicious of this whole Swiss Foundation thing that he has going because it offers an enormous amount of sneaking around and avoiding being honest not only with government, but with his followers whom he is constantly seeking more and more money from. It's a little sobering, don't you think? I know for me I'm considering him in a whole other light now. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 17:01:47 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: Secret numbered Swiss accts Message: Of course I don't know for sure if there are secret numbered Swiss bank accounts. But, does a zebra have stripes? Come on, buddy, be real. You think that if you've got a Swiss Foundation that you are not doing some banking in Switzerland? First, thanks for your honesty... it's hard to get that out of people here. Now, are you telling me that every Swiss account is numbered? And tell me, why does the association of 'Swiss' with 'banking' automatically denote something illegal? Do you see the dishonesty I'm talking about Roger... to present the Swiss connection in a knee-jerk fashion as something necessarily evil? Or has your critical thinking ability shut down such that you are automatically led down that path by an unconscious word association? So, which are you... dishonest, or easily swayed by word images? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:54:57 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Bob! Subject: find a brain Message: Bob: Are you seriously trying to say that fakiranand didn't hammer-whip a guy that threw a pie at your lard? That event really happened and (even M acknowledged the event, stupid). If that murderous asshole ever steps foot in this country, he'll be up on felony charges for attempted murder (no statute of limitations on murder). Personally, due to his complicity in keeping fakiranand away from the police, I think that M should be held accountable as an accomplice, but unfortunately never was. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:29:05 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Bob! Subject: You forgot Nellie's Watch! Message: Bob, I just can't believe that on this sacred day you forgot to mention that your Guru coerced me own dear beloved grandmothers heirloom watch out of me. Tis a fact ye can't deny Bobbie Boy! Aye, be sure ya don't forget he's also a: shyster, hooligan, and full of malarkey. His shenanigans o'er the years have caused quite a brouhaha in the lives of those he's flummoxed (with his blarney of course;-) So take your vexing banshee spirit elsewhere. Oh, an if ye ever see him tell him he can surely 'Kiss me sweet Irish arse!' Too-ra-loo-ra-loo-ra...... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:48:41 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Making my day Irish, Thanks! Message: Thank you, Mary M. Your post under my thread has made my day a special Irish one, of which I am proudly one of ye! Wearing some green today! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 08:15:26 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: You're Welcome to be Sure (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 02:33:07 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Bob! Subject: ***Best of Forum*** Thanks! Message: Hey Bob! That was great. I liked it so much I bought the comapny. (Oh shit, I'm confusing myself with Victor Kiam and Remmington Electric Razor.) Roger, 'I don't discriminate. What is funny is funny.' Drek Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 15:07:14 (EST)
From: Bob! Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: ***Best of Forum*** Thanks! Message: Thanks Roger. I'm glad you don't discriminate. And I'm glad to see you, HALIP, Jean-Michel & Irish Mary still have your senses of humor intact. As to the rest of the respondees, your robotic, stiff replies were so party-line and stilted as to be almost....jeez, I don't know...cultlike ;) have fun, Bob! (who isn't Us, Them, You, She, Abe etc.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 17:20:10 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Bob! Subject: Stilted?? Party line??? Message: Bob: You really are a hoot!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 03:12:19 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Bob! Subject: million thanks for the laugh! Message: But I'll have a Tarte Tatin, with some crème fraiche. And a coffee. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 15:18:14 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: what about Bob! Subject: $100 million find! Message: I thought that was funny. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 14:31:18 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: Did you notice? Message: JW: Did you notice the bio for Dettmers that stated: Inc. magazine selected Dettmers Industries as one of the 'Best Small Companies To Work For In America' because of his success at organizing the entire workforce into performance-based product teams. ???????? Yeah, he's every manager's dream..... To get people to slave away on products that you manufacture and do it for absolutely NOTHING! WOW..... I wanna get in on the ground floor of this 'new' methodology! Bendix Corp Board Room: 'Ok, ok...... We'll tell our employees that the president of Bendix Corp is really god, make up some stuff about his being descended from the radio-salami line and then we'll get the true believers to slave away for us for nothing..... that way we can compete with Dettmers in the aircraft seat business.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 02:51:24 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Mike Subject: Inc. Magazine Message: I did a search of Inc. Magazine and there was a very small little article about Dettmers, Inc. However, I was unable anything saying directly that it was one of the best companies to work for. However, I did not mention that because what is on the web may be a subset of the printed magazine. Still, I have some doubts about the claim that Dettmers made in that respect. After all, his webpage stinks of exaggeration and understatement at the same time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 14:39:31 (EST)
From: Stevei Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: 5 Million per Year Message: Let us assuem M has 50000 regular devotees, each contributing 100 USD per year ......that is an annual gross of 5 Million per year which over a ten year period..72-82 could easily be 50M USD no problem....If this kind of money is generated..it aint gona go into your regular bank account...hence a Swiss Foundation Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:24:21 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: Stevei Subject: 5 Million per Year Message: >Let us assuem M has 50000 regular devotees, each contributing 100 USD per year .... Have you ever priced the rental on a large hall or the cost of operating a private plane? Do you really think $5M a year is a big deal for an organization that has events all over the world? I donate money. Thats my business. CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:58:45 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: CD Subject: 5 Million per Year Message: CD: Thru your own words you bring up a GREAT question: WHY does he need to operate a smog-belching 'private' commercial airliner??????? BTW, I'll bet that most devotees contribute much more that 100 bucks per year! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:20:21 (EST)
From: CD Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: Dettmers and $100 million Message: Do you have a problem with people being successful in business? There are quite a few premies with millions of dollars in their bank accounts. So what? CD Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 21:44:43 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: CD Subject: Maytag repair man needed! Message: It's the perfect laundromat, is what it is. Swiss Corporation my ass! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 03:12:31 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Zac Subject: Reading comprehension! Message: CD and Nil and Bob! and whomever this applies to: Uh, I think your reading comprehension is failing you. He also managed its world-wide business operations including travel services, event management, health food services, and publications and video productions generating revenues in excess of 100 million dollars in 1982. That's 100 million in 1982. Like in one year! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:22:19 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: CD Subject: So What???? Message: cd, if honesty doesn't stand for something, if there is no accountability and truth to be had, if life is a meaningless illusion, if money is the sign of legitimacy, if there is no god cd, why foist a fake one on innocents? you your self dont think he is god. or do you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 00:20:45 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: CD Subject: Are you REALLY that stupid??? Message: Do you have a problem with people being successful in business? There are quite a few premies with millions of dollars in their bank accounts. So what? This may be the stupidest thing you've said. Are you aware the subject of Drek's post is? We're not talking about successful premies here, Chris. Not unless you view Maharaji as being nothing more than a premie. The bank account in question was Elan Vital's. Have you heard of that organization at all??? Do you know of any living person that those funds support OTHER THAN MAHARAJI??? Christ, Chris... You are a FERN... On a lighter note, Michael Dettmer's webpage was produced by the same person who produced Maharaji.Org - Jossi Fresco. His name appears at the very bottom of Dettmer's splash-screen page. Scroll down quick, because the page reloads after a few seconds. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:33:37 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: Thank you Roger Drek! (nt) Message: oiuuio Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 09:23:18 (EST)
From: Me Email: None To: Everyone Subject: You Message: Just thought I'd remind you of the great Jerry Springer program where the high school girl came on and recounted how some guy 25 years ago said she was 'fat'. And now, 25 years later, she wasn't so fat. And the Jerry Springer crew had found him and WOW she had lost weight. And she got her revenge. WOW. I love that stuff. It may seem fucked to people who have other experiences but to those of us that measure life in decades, it was a real victory. Thanks for your support. BT Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 11:01:45 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Me Subject: You Message: Wait a minute, are you actually admitting that you watch the Jerry Springer show? Cause I've never yet met anyone who has admitted to that. But then again you're anonymous, so I guess that still does not count. I'll tell ya what will really impress me... admit that you watch the jerry springer show and also give your full name. That's a double dog dare! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 05:31:28 (EST)
From: ex-mug Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Athlete's Foot Message: It's a wonder there wasn't an outbreak of killer disease following a foot kissing session - thousands of people snogging the same wet sock (YUCK)- and it is of course possible that the guy had athlete's foot or something for all we know. Just a horrible thought :) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 07:43:19 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: ex-mug Subject: Athlete's Foot Message: Iremember at my first darshan in Copenhagen noticingthe Marks & Spencer's label. Do you think he got paid for advertising? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 08:52:46 (EST)
From: ex-mug Email: None To: Jethro Subject: LOL (nt) Message: (nt) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 08:54:23 (EST)
From: Us Email: None To: ex-mug Subject: Foot Message: Everything OK so far. Thanks for your concern. U Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 10:15:40 (EST)
From: Ohnoitsthe... Email: None To: Us Subject: multiple personality fuckwit Message: So it's hi again to the hit'n'run moron. At 8.54 he's calling himself 'Us' At 8.59 he's changed his identity to 'Objective'(!!!!!!) By 9.02 he's become 'FT' Four minutes later it's 'An Objective Reader' At 9.09 he is (most certainly) 'Confused' Hey dude, why are you such a paranoid clown? And hey, Maharaji, what do think of your staunch defender doing his embarrassing stuff here? How about you, CD? Op? Red heart? Cast your votes, please, any premie out there who doesn't think this gurunoid idiot is doing his Master's cause more harm than good.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 10:20:49 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Us Subject: Foot in mouth disease Message: US: You are wrong, you have foot-in-mouth disease and it's spreading. You better go and get it checked as soon as you possibly can. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 03:51:29 (EST)
From: JELLY Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Brian & Katie Message: In the last week people have been posting newspaper and magazine articles about M. Is there any way that these articles can be collated on this website maybe under the link of 'articles'? It is really interesting to read what theoretically objective observers have written. Regards JELLY Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 08:58:56 (EST)
From: Objective Email: None To: JELLY Subject: Brian & Katie Message: You say 'theoretically objective observers have written'. Could you please confine your postings to the facts. O Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 09:57:07 (EST)
From: JELLY Email: None To: Objective Subject: 'scuse me? Message: What I meant was that, like the article below which was posted by JW a couple of threads back, articles from a newspaper or magazine have been written by somebody who is probably not a member of DLM/EV and therefore would have to rely on their own research as opposed to what they have been taught to believe. I realise that newspapers are not always objective having worked for one, and that journalists can sway perception with a few well chosen words but the article below was written for the New York Times which has a reputation of having extremely good reporters who work within the factual where one could probably not say the same thing for 'People Magazine' which is where the 'theoretically objective' comes in. So.... what facts am I supposed to confine myself to? New York Times, November 15, 1973: The Indian Government is probing the finances of the 14-year-old Guru Maharaj Ji, whose followers claim five million adherents in India, 40,000 in the USA and thousands elsewhere. The difficulty arose when the Guru returned to India on November 7 in a jet carrying 350 American disciples and a suitcase reportedly containing $65,000 in cash, watches and jewels, which authorities impounded for violation of smuggling laws. The spiritual movement's public relations director said that the jewels and watches were gifts for the Guru. The Guru denied any connection with the suitcase and said that the controversey is and 'attempt to harm Divine Light Mission.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 23:59:51 (EST)
From: ET Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The Lord of the Universe Message: This 'Lord of the Universe' thing started back in 1973 from a song on an album of the same name that went like this: The Lord of the Universe has come to us this day The Lord of the Universe has come to us this day And he's come to show us the light And he's come to show us the love And he's come to show us the way Back to our Father, back to our Father, back to our Father... The album showed the 15-year old 'Perfect Master' on a throne in India and under it in big letters 'The Lord of the Universe'. -ET (been lurking for a few weeks) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 00:08:12 (EST)
From: d Email: None To: ET Subject: The Lord of the Universe Message: This lotu thing started way before that album, my friend! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 05:54:27 (EST)
From: cp Email: None To: d Subject: The Lord of the Universe Message: Oh YES I remember the bliss...even RECORDS did his bidding..... actually swooned because M waa on the I N T E R N E T! 'He will stop at nothing to spread his message. Even such Maya as the net will be his tool' I mean...... this was a grown man talking. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 09:02:37 (EST)
From: FT Email: None To: ET Subject: The Lord of the Universe Message: I'm afraid it's a little late to make a comment 26 years later. Please attend current video events, X Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 10:09:32 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: FT Subject: question for premies... Message: I don't know, you're probably kidding, but anyway... What's different now? I went to a video a few years ago and guess what songs they were singing to the guru (oops I'm sorry, meditation teacher) in the video? Old devotional songs from the evil 70's before the guru had evolved into his non guru state. Hey, by the way, is anything the ex-guru says still considered to be The Law? I mean, do you: 1. listen to what he says and evaluate it as to its value and then take it or leave it. or 2. listen to what he says and totally accept it without any question or judgement. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 13:02:55 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: John Subject: question for premies... Message: Yeah, John, I saw a video from December, 1996, in which Maharaji walked around for about 15 minutes in slow motion, to new age music, followed by an instrumental ARTI. Yes, ARTI. There were also some shots of clouds. Now, I don't recall clouds in the videos or films from the 70s, so maybe that's the difference. Also, his daughter, in a fashion that can only be described as incestuous, also sang love songs to him, including that popular hit from the 70s, 'Please, please, please teach me devotion' and a even earlier song talking about Maharaji's 'lila' and that his 'game has just begun.' Sounded to me like he still thinks he is all-powerful, in complete control, and an object of worship and devotion. That does not appear to have changed. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 13:10:21 (EST)
From: Orlando Email: None To: John Subject: none of the above Message: I listen to what he says, and take it to heart Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 14:03:37 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Orlando Subject: none of the above Message: But Orlando: Who is he to give YOU advice about anything? Considering his foibles, mistakes, mis-steps and outright fraud (e.g. LOTU), who is HE to give you advice on how to run YOUR life? Do you understand what I'm asking? Do you think that he has the right or priviledge to advise you about a life that he so little understands? These questions are for you, Orlando and they are heartfelt. I'm not trying to bait you. The answer just seems so simple to me, I don't understand why you don't see it (seriously!) I'll even make it simpler: Forget about the meditation part, just respond to M's 'life advice' that he so freely gives. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 16:14:18 (EST)
From: John Email: None To: Orlando Subject: that's called an evasive Message: answer. I ask whether you listen to M critically or you accept it without judgment, and you say you 'take it to heart'. which means... nothing!! Totally amibiguous cultspeak! Adios amigo! I won't be reading any more of your posts. You are too far gone. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 10:18:27 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: FT Subject: The Lord of the Universe Message: I'm afraid it's a little late to make a comment 26 years later. One of the reasons that people are still commenting on this stuff 26 years later is because we didn't feel that we could talk about it openly back then, OR for 26 years afterwards. Maybe you think it's too late - I certainly don't. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 10:31:26 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Katie Subject: The Lord of the Universe Message: Katie: Point well taken and might I add: He has NEVER ONCE apologized for his part in that 'misrepresentation,' either. You don't forgive until the offender has apologized and feels remorse for the act.... something that M has never done; not a single time. I'll consider forgiving him once he asks for it, not a second sooner! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:01:33 (EST)
From: ET Email: None To: FT Subject: The Lord of the Universe Message: You mean after all my vegtables have rotted away? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 23:58:06 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Guru NOT a psychic Message: I was going through some boxes while my computer was down. I came across some old premie letters in one shoebox. I also found some old tapes of guru music and satsang, etc. Can't believe I still have all that stuff. Here's a blurb from a letter that I estimate was from 1980-1982(?) 'I got to see Maharaji twice and kiss his beautiful feet. It's really beyond words the way he looked at me-he had tears of love for me in his eyes- He told us that next year there would be 100 thousand premies and soon after half the world would have his precious knowledge. He won't rest until this whole world is at peace.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 03:46:54 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: VP Subject: Gag and Barf Message: VP, that is choice, but pretty typical of premies from what I remember. Beautiful feet -- give me a break. His feet didn't look any different than anyone else's. They were small, that's for sure. And the 100,000 never materialized, did it, let alone 'half the world.' I'm sure the 'tears' were because he was 'bored to tears,' sitting there having his feet kissed, which he had to do to get the $250 grand or so he collected every time he did it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 10:04:54 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: JW Subject: Gag and Barf and premie misery Message: JW, your reactions were the same as mine. Tears of love? Pleeeease! I was hoping someone would comment on the numbers. More broken promises. Here is a premie paradox--you know, Knowledge is supposed to bring happiness, but this person is completely miserable. (I'm not saying all premies are miserable) This is from a premie friend who committed sucide not long after this letter: 'I wonder how things really are for you. Nobody tells you or if they do you just don't listen or something until you are there yourself. It gets so weird sometimes on your own--everyone telling you to forget your dreams, forget the love, forget to laugh. Work work, work- study,study,study- achieve,achieve, achieve---what? What for? No one really knows about that sneaky little voice inside, aching to know answers to questions. Questions that only you can answer. You look for that perfect someone to love or that perfect situation--they sooner or later let you down. You can't have happiness without sadness. They go together. Life is one big up and down or just clinging to the dull middle. Nobody ever told me that I could just be myself. I'm still struggling to be free and happy out here in this little world--this ball called earth dangling in the middle of a universe that is finite and will also disapear someday like me. And people offer you advice? They are as lost in it as you--as me. John the Baptist said and incredible thing- 'I'm a voice crying out in the wilderness'- I feel like that a lot. If somebody had only told me-if someone had only told me that what I needed was one thing that would bring me everything. One thing that was my home--one simple thing that would set me free forever. I still believe in this world and it lets me down constantly...Nobody told me that what I was looking for was right under my pillow-wasn't in the world-wasn't in another person.' ----------------------------------------------------------------- I see the letter in a very different light than I did when I first got it. It is sad to me now. Sure, sometimes we have probably all felt similar feelings. I think the struggle here was that this person was supposed to have all the answers but was still unhappy. The sad thing is, words like this used to make me WANT to get knowledge. Maybe it was because I was so young that I could not see the misery there. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 13:42:23 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: VP Subject: Very sad, VP Message: VP, When read in the context that you know the person who wrote this soon took his own life it adds to the impact. What's also sad about it is that I or any other premie could have been the person who wrote this letter. The words in it are vintage premie philosophy and it all comes from M. This is the philosophy that we learned from him. But like your friend it was mostly wishful thinking that such a place, a shelter from the storm, existed within, the place we were born to find through the guidance of the master. I guess your friend was only able to kid himself for so long that he'd found this place. Some of us lived in hope much longer but sooner or later you lose hope and give up the quest. Oddly, its when you do that you begin to feel better because than you take stock of what's really there and you learn to appreciate it rather than living in a dream that's never going to materialize. Your friend might still be alive today if he had not gone off chasing rainbows at the behest of his master. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:50:12 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Very sad, VP Message: Some of us lived in hope much longer but sooner or later you lose hope and give up the quest. Oddly, its when you do that you begin to feel better because than you take stock of what's really there and you learn to appreciate it rather than living in a dream that's never going to materialize. That is profound, Jerry. Thanks for posting that. I do feel better now that I have personally given up the quest. I find that I can enjoy what IS here--my life. It doesn't take knowledge or a master for me to do it either. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 16:50:57 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: VP Subject: And thank YOU Message: I do feel better now that I have personally given up the quest. I find that I can enjoy what IS here--my life. It doesn't take knowledge or a master for me to do it either. My sentiments exactly, Veep. You took the words right out of my mouth. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 04:10:32 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: VP Subject: My last night's darshan dream Message: There was a darshan line, and I was following it, not knowing what I was doing there. Then I arrived at his feet, not knowing what to do, and I finally decided to spit on his feet. Boy, he got mad and furious. And I was suprised of my courage. Then he shouted he would sue me, or something like that. He was ridiculous. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 06:43:08 (EST)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Vomiting at his feet Message: I almost threw up in front of Maharaji, in the darshan line once. It was in Leicester, England and he had decided that since we had been bad devotees after the 1976 space-out, that he would only let us do pranam to a pillow in front of his feet. Just as well, I thought, because I felt so repulsed by the darshan thing at the time that I began to feel more and more sick as I walked along the blue tunnel to Maharaji. As I reached the physical form of the Lord and bent down to touch the pillow, I began to heave and had to use all my strength to prevent myself from vomiting all over his pillow. I walked away white faced and very nauseous and had to go and sit down to recover. Some premies probably thought I'd had an 'experience'. I had but it was of the stomach churning, revulsion kind. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 08:33:01 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Spitting and vomiting Message: I'd really enjoy seeing this! Beside I've nothing to do near to him. What a dark place to be. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:41:23 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: My last night's darshan dream Message: Hooray for you JM and your wild darshan dreams! Thanks for shareing them with us. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 09:06:34 (EST)
From: Any objective reader Email: None To: VP Subject: Is VP psychic Message: Throw your junk away Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 10:14:17 (EST)
From: VP Email: None To: Any objective reader Subject: Junk? Message: Some of my letters have some other personal memories that I hold dear so I don't consider all of them junk. I did get rid of the Satsang tapes--gag and barf. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 10:33:57 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Any objective reader Subject: Is VP psychic Message: VP answered your statement a lot better than I could, but I'm interested in knowing if you even READ his posts. He's talking about letters that were sent to him from a premie friend - someone he loved very much - who later killed himself. I had also had a dear premie friend who killed himself, and I would have saved any letters from him if I could have. By the way, in answer to your question, VP IS psychic. I'm not, but I can tell you're posting under several screen names AND don't seem to be trying to establish any sort of real communication here. I've said this before, but I really respect the premies here who use one screen name and are open and honest about what they think and feel. Even if I don't agree with them, I feel that we can communicate with each other. I don't respect anonymous posts in which the apparent motivation is harrassment or oblique criticism or obfuscation. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 10:56:36 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Katie Subject: agree with Katie... Message: I can't tell for sure like Katie can that you are the same person in many 'incarnations' but lots of posts lately are so similar. They are mean spirited, insulting to the person being responded to, and also they have a similar 'quality' which leads me to believe someone is posting under lots of names and just gets a kick out of coming here and annoy people. I personally am annoyed. If you really are a premie I suggest you go to Rawat's site. It won't be as much fun because he deals with problems by ignoring them. And clearly you enjoy being a problem. But he did make the site for you so why not go there and enjoy it and leave us alone? Actually. Rawat may be right about ignoring. Responding to you as I have here is likeley only going to feed the beast. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 14:44:34 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: MJ: Anti-Worldly Success Message: Los Angeles Times, July 19, 1986: HEADLINE: Blessing the Quest for Success Seen as a Boost for 2 Eastern Sects The self-denying image of Eastern religions notwithstanding, two U.S. sects (Yogi Bhajan and Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche) with spritiual roots in Asia have blessed the quest for material gain as they have improved their social acceptance in America, a recently published study says.... However, a third group, Divine Light Mission, whose publically-shy Guru Maharaji lives in a hilltop Malibu mansion, deemphasized worldly success for his followers as the organization faced major cutbacks in 1973-1974, the study said. The guru reportedly severed his ties with the organization within the last two years. The analysis of the three movements was made by sociologist Dr. Kirpal Singh Khalsa, who concluded that by developing a rationale for money-making, two of the three groups improved their chances to build a solid financial base... All three groups studied by Khalsa began attracting American students about the same time -- the period generally described as one of spiritual ferment on the heels of the turbulent 1960s civil rights struggles.... Guru Maharaji (formerly spelled Maharaj Ji), a teen-ager when he came to the United States in the early 1970s from India, heralded as 'the Perfect Master' in the Hindu tradition and emphasizing the sacred relationship between the guru and his disciples. His leading followers established Divine Light Mission centers in most U.S. cities in the early '70s. If anything, the Divine Light Mission started out with worldly goals -- from a modern headquarters building in Denver to grandiose plans to promote the guru as Lord of the Universe at a financially disastrous gathering at Houston's Astrodome in 1973 -- and pulled back considerably, even to the point of abandoning the movement's name. Based on interviews with devotees of Guru Maharaji at the Denver and Boulder 'resource centers,' Khalsa wrote that the material world was seen by them 'as a distraction to spiritual growth.' Khalsa said devotees told him that one is necessarily involved in the world, but only to meet the basic requirements of life.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 14:56:30 (EST)
From: Runamok Email: None To: JW Subject: MJ: Anti-Worldly Success Message: Bhajan's followers normally take the name Khalsa when they join 3HO. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 18:04:37 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: Ahhhh, now I understand Message: Why M leads such an austere lifestyle and why his kids are sent to private schools while he tells premies that formal education is a waste of time..... I get it.... Yeah, that's the ticket. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 07:59:30 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Mike Subject: Ahhhh, now I understand (lp) Message: The price some of us payed and are still paying for that decision is astronomical. He was so insecure and paranoid we'd leave he encouraged us to stay underemployed, rely on the bliss for satisfaction and 'the grace' for our rent, monthly food bill and ticket to see him. Then he bitches that we don't give him enough money! something like IF THE MASTER HAD TO RELY ON THE DONATONS OF HIS FOLLOWERS he'd starve? Let's get real! MJ. Ditch the mansions all over the world. Sell-em. Sell all vehicles. Sell the plane. Close EV. Spend no more than $350,000 on a home somewhere. Invest the money left over into an annuity that will give you $100,000 of income per year. Take the rest and do something concrete with it something positive for humanity. Give some to your long term servants whom you'll be letting go. Let premies actually invite you to see them all over the world. They will buy you a first class ticket and feed and take care of you while you are with them. You and Marilyn should clean your own house and cook your own meals, mow and rake own lawn. Your relationship will improve. It'll be fun and interesting to see how immaculate things stay when you have to do everything yourself. These changes are going to put you in touch with reality. Maybe let your kids go get a job when they graduate college. Hey It's fun to be own your own. Much of the delusional, half-baked advice you give will disappear with these small changes. Then you can concentrate on being a 'man' who travels the globe giving out meditation techniques for 'free.' Accept no donations. You have the annuity! I know this will be hard for you but any of your followers would take the deal in a second. As you reclaim your senses you will want to seek out and make at least emotional if not financial reparations to those you knowingly or unknowingly hurt! If you are truly a man you'll accept your responsibility for the hurt you've caused, address it head on make reparations, then be a 'leader' for your followers. What is this stuff about not wanting to be a leader. Have listened to your video taped talks. You are either a leader or your nothing. You have to grow up and step up to the plate Big Guy because you are either a leader or you'd better get off the stage. More advice for you. Don't attempt shit you no nothing about. It makes you look foolish and fucks up the works. My partner in business has this problem. He can't focus on one thing. Try's to do a million things and nothing is done right. You've got the same problem my friend. Your doing poetry, painting, inventing, piloting, music, picture taking,etc. Pick one and call it your hobby. LISTEN! YOU CAN'T SAY YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO ANSWER YOUR FOLLOWERS QUESTIONS,LETTERS ETC IF YOUR FINDING THE TIME TO DO ALL THIS SHIT! It comes with the territory. Stop trying to write your on rules. Do your job or get the fuck out! No one knows who the fuck you are. You are fucking with their heads. Stop it. State clearly once and for all who you are and what you are doing here. Then live with it. Live by it. You have some work to do my friend. You've painted yourself into a corner by your own craftiness. Who's got the most to lose? Think about it and get back to me. A simple post here will do! If you have the time. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:02:59 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Zac Subject: Good post Zac Message: I enjoyed reading your post to Maharaji. I thought it was a heart-felt and fair expression, something I might even say. On the whole I find the expressions on this forum interesting. I can't relate to a lot of the cynical or derisive posts, especially the ones that attack others personally. I'm not angry at Maharaji. Despite being intimately involved with the spirituality that Maharaji represented in my life, I've never felt that close to him. If I want to be angry there are a lot of things to be angry about. I'm pretty good at being angry. That's just my own personal perspective. I just want to say that I liked your post. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 11:22:10 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Good post Bobby Message: I'd say you were pretty good at being human Bobby. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:20:05 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Zac Subject: Ahhhh, now I understand (lp) Message: He was so insecure and paranoid we'd leave he encouraged us to stay underemployed, rely on the bliss for satisfaction and 'the grace' for our rent, monthly food bill and ticket to see him. I'm not so sure Maharaji cared if we left or not. Now, I know he wanted enough devotees to be worshipped to a degree that would reinforce his ego, and to get the cash he needed to finance the way he lives, and that takes quite a few, but I don't think he cared much one way or the other about any of us that much to care what we did -- to care whether we came or left. And I think the downgrading of career, etc., that he did was also partly out of his own ignorance and the fact that he never had to work a day in his life himself, he had a ninth grade education and had no skills and was partly intimidated by educated people will careers. I think he was, and is, so far out of touch with the way normal people live, that I don't think he ever understood the financial hardships premies went through, and their families suffered, to dedicate money to him and to get to the programs any devotee would certainly attend. That's why, no matter how strapped premies were, he always asked for more. He never had enough. There was always a new plane, another car, another residence, etc. And that's why he is such a failure at propogation. He's so unrelatable to the vast majority of people, that they just aren't interested in what he has to say. And I agree. He has the best of everything, and has time to engage in luxurious, leisure hobbies like sailing and antique car collecting, but pretends he is so busy trying to save humanity that he can't possibly deal with the damage he has caused thousands of his followers. I'm surprised he doesn't just say: 'let them eat cake.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 09:09:20 (EST)
From: Confused Email: None To: JW Subject: MJ: Anti-Worldly Success Message: What's the point. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 13:08:39 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Confused Subject: MJ: Anti-Worldly Success Message: Could you state you question more clearly so that we can address it properly? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 14:33:37 (EST)
From: The Dreamer Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The Bunker Daze Message: As strange it might sound, I had risen up through the ranks to be a Residence slave and was invited to live in the servant bunkhouse behind The Residence. Packing up all my belongings, I arrived on bicycle. It was obvious why I was choosen and that was because they were scraping the bottom of the barrel as there were very few premies willing to serve their Lord. I did my service as a groundskeeper. It was difficult work because through neglect the grounds had gotten out of control and overgrown. Maharaji no longer toured the world giving programs. His sole means of communication was Broadcast Satellite (BS.) Maharaji no longer bothered to schedule the events, rather he would just hook a wireless microphone to his shirt and pace back and forth screeching out his impromptu message. I was outside doing my service when I heard the familiar lead-in new age music blaring from the spinning air raid sirens that were attached to each corner of the house and on poles throughout the yard. I felt sorry for the neighbors for having to hear this stuff. Wanting to get closer to Maharaji I dropped my shovel and went inside the residence. He was pacing back and forth in the foyer and screaming about how none of us were good enough and how ungrateful we all were. He saw me and shouted even louder. I motioned with my arms that perhaps he would be more comfortable sitting in the living room in His chair. I went into the living room and kneeled on the plush white carpet in front of his chair hoping he would take the hint and chill out knowing that there was one premie who still loved him. Maharaji turned and walked the other way down another hallway that led to the garage complex. His screaching message of how worthless all the premies were for abandoning him was reverberating and echoing outside. There was much activity in the house as the few premies that were still there were rushing frantically about the huge house. A sister came out from the kitchen and saw me kneeling in the living room. 'You'd better leave,' she said, 'It's all over now.' I ran back to the bunkhouse and made a sloppy effort to gather whatever I had, but much of it was already gone being rifled and taken by other premies. On foot I hit the road and joined the exodous leaving the blaring cacophony behind. Down the road there was a gathering of premies, mostly PAMs, and I stopped and asked them what should we do now. They didn't answer, instead they stole my shoes. It was then that I had realized that I had forgotten my bicycle. I headed barefoot back down the gravel road for the one thing that had always gotten me through, my bicycle. Finally back at the residence with my feet bleeding and hurting, the screeching message of Maharaji's love had been replaced by the sound of breaking glass and things that had once been inside the house were now flying outside. And my bicycle was gone. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 16:30:55 (EST)
From: aoa Email: None To: forum Subject: The Bunker Daze Message: I liked that dream -- it is something like fanfic (fan fiction, for tv shows like Highlander, Star Trek, etc.) The fans write their own extensions to the existing story lines. Thank you! - And On Anand Ji Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 17:39:26 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: The Dreamer Subject: The Bunker Daze Message: And my bicycle was gone. Yeah, dreamer, I know.. the dream is gone. It's the end of the road. I see the vision that your dream brougt to you, how those who were still around had nothing, nowhere, to turn now.... The loss of even the ability to do anything but pilfer, trying to find, in the loot, what they had lost years ago... You caught it so well. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 18:29:41 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Dreamer Subject: The Bunker Daze Message: I agree with Selene, great writing. I meant to tell Malibu Madness that too. Or perhaps Malibu and Dreamer are one and the same?? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:05:09 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: The Dreamer Subject: The Bunker Daze Message: Great dream. I didn't even need to read my book on dream symbols to figure this one out. eb Not Very Jung Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 14:26:37 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The Tallahassee Murders Message: The New York Times, January 14, 1975: Three women followers of Indian mystic Guru Maharaj Ji were shot, one fatally, by another member of the sect after they refused to allow Douglas Briggs Jr to spend the night at their Divine Light Mission in Tallahassee, Florida. Briggs surrendered to police. Diane Ames Whitley died in the hospital from gunshot wounds. [This was the incident in which Briggs supposedly said he had 'inner agya' from Guru Maharaj Ji to shoot those premies. After this, a letter was sent around by DLM stating that Guru Maharaj Ji did not give inner agya.] Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 14:33:37 (EST)
From: Rick Email: None To: JW Subject: The Tallahassee Murders Message: Anyone know if Briggs was convicted and what his sentence was? And what happened to him after that? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 14:59:10 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: JW Subject: The Tallahassee Murders Message: Scary story. I remember this vaguely. It goes to show how many half-crazy people get drawn into cults, and how these strange concepts (agya, lila, and the like) will be especially dangerous for them, and their surroundings. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 23:40:18 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Rick Subject: The Tallahassee Murders Message: Hi All, Will look into this with the FDLE. It'll probably involve some manual research but I imagine if he was convicted he went to our state prison. If he pled, brainwashed insanity, then he's probably at our state institution called 'Chattahoochie'. Actually, there could be a third scenario... if his parents had trust funds et al he might be in a private institution (assuming he did not turn them all over to M). Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 14:19:35 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Deprogrammed Premies Message: United Press International, December 11, 1980: Dateline: Wilkes-Barre, PA Gifford Cappellini, an attorney who once operated Freedom of Mind, Inc., a center for snapping religious cult members out of alleged mind control, said Thursday he'll get back into the business to help parents and because 'it was very interesting.'... Another man helped by Cappellini is Steve Harris, 28, a former member of the Divine Light Mission for almost seven years. He had been living in an ashram in Columbus, Ohio, when he was picked up. 'At first I felt like I was being abducted. I was scared, real scared that I was going to get brainwashed,' he recalled. 'They took me to a house a few hours away with my parents there. They just talked to me but I refused to respond for a few days. Then, suddenly, I had my first thought in years.' Harris, who became involved with the Divine Light Mission cult while attending Tufts University in Boston, said he later had a 'big realiziation that techniques were used (by the Mission) to stop you from all independent thought and feeling. These techniques are camouflaged as religious teachings. Your mind is put into the deep freeze.' He said he is glad to be out of the Mission, that after he was deprogrammed he 'felt like I had been in prison and was freed, or that I had been on a barren planet and just returned to earth.' [Once again, any of this sound familiar?] Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 16:23:00 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: JW Subject: Denise read JW's post Message: Long before the x page this is the universal conclusion one comes to when leaving the mind numbing techniques of maharaji's teachings. Granted the current presentation is much subtler for new comers and the process to total devotion is slower but the overall framework has not changed. The more involved you are in MJ's work the more apparent it is. The scary thing about mind programming is that you do not know that you have been programmed. We used to joke in the ashram that it was time to get hooked up to the machine to be reprogrammed. We'd all laugh like crazy. It was the moonies and scientologist's that were being duped. The joke was on us. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 14:11:03 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Jewish Premies Message: An interesting breakdown about the number of Jewish premies: New York Times, February 22, 1980: The American Jewish Committed assistant director Rabbi James A. Rudin reports that major cults are stronger than ever and attract an unusually high percentage of American Jews. Rudin pointed out that Jews, representing 2.8% of the population of the United States, make up 25% of Divine Light Mission membership, 20% of the Hare Krishna membership and 12% of the membership of the Unification Church. [Congratulations, Mahararji, you beat Sung Myung Moon by 13 percentage points in recruitment of Jews! Way to go!] Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 10:05:58 (EST)
From: Denise Email: None To: Miloochie and Zac Subject: To Millochie and Zac Message: Hey y'all, I was just thinking about a post that Jim made before he left on holiday. He basically said that my reason for remaining a premie, a good experience of K, was faulty and stated that y'all also have a good experience but you're exers. He asked what the difference was between me and y'all. Well, I just don't know and I guess I'll have to talk to y'all personally to find out. We can either discuss here on the forum openly or please give me your email addresses so I may ask you some questions on my mind. Either way, doesn't matter to me. P.S. Please see my 'Curious Peace' post below. Have a good day, y'all! *Denise Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 12:55:27 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Denise Subject: To Denise Message: You are a typical self-indulgent insensitive premie. Because you are having a 'nice experience' everything is ok inspite of what you have read here and should haver checked out by now. The bottom line is you follow a pedophile protector, a robber of the poor, ..etc. You delusion is that you believe 'your experience' comes from him. You said in another post(below) that you get angry about these things you read about but premies sweeten you up. How grounded are you in your own experience if it is so easily swayed?(rhetorical question) Sounds to me like you need a good therist. Try reading 'Body-centred psychotherapy' by Ron Kurtz and then put yourself under a Hakomi therapist. It just may make you face yourself and shift you. You treat the people here too casually and have no real sense of what has happened to them. I am finding it hard to find any respect for you. I just can't be bothered to continue. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 18:36:21 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Hey Jethro Message: Totally off topic, would you please email me when you get a chance: HelenRDC@aol.com. If it is too expensive for you (I know it's expensive for Brits), it's okay, don't worry about it Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 13:08:31 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Denise Subject: To Millochie and Zac Message: >I>what the difference was between me and y'all I don't go watch the videos anymore. I don't believe m's the superior power in person. I see Mr Rawat as a charlatan. I don't believe that whatever heart-feelings I have is 'life'. I don't believe that anything I can feel within me is related to what Mr R calls 'knowledge'. I don't believe he knows more than anybody else. I don't believe anything he says. I know he's a liar. I know he's been associated with many criminal actions and fraud. etc etc etc and I don't have any problem anymore accepting those facts. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 13:57:15 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Denise Subject: Fence-sitting Message: D, The evidence against M is immense. How can any sane person believe in him? He has lied, he has cheated, he's a hypocrite, he is actually, in my opinion, a criminal. Can there be a worse crime than posing as God, or Greater than God? He has abused his followers terribly - check out AE's Truth Pages. He has protected Jagdeo and Fakiranand, whom both should have been turned over to the police. He has conned millions and again millions from people who trusted him with their lives. He has evased taxes as much as he ever could. Whenever it suits him, he changes his story. Denise, I and so many others have followed your struggle to comprehend all this. Believe us, this is the truth. Your experience stems from you yourself, not from him. Nobody can be a fence-sitter for a very long time. Sooner or later, you will have to choose side, or fall on either side, out of pure exhaustion. And you know already too much to go back to M. Maybe you'll go back to him now, I don't know, but it will only prolong your agony. But the choice is yours, of course. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 13:34:44 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Denise Subject: To Millochie and Zac Message: I don't want to get too philosophical about this, but my ENTIRE LIFE, is much better since I had nothing to do with Maharaji than it was when I followed him. I am much happier. It's like I got my BRAIN back from the dry cleaners. To me, the insidious thing about 'knowledge' is this Hindu dualistic idea that there is 'knowledge' and then there is everything else. That is a crock. It isn't true. I had some nice experiences in meditation, but they are just just experience s of meditation. It isn't anything more than that, and people who do TM, and various other forms of meditation have the same, or better, experiences. All I did as a premie was attribute all the good things that happened to me, or nice experiences I had, to Maharaji, and all the bad things to me, my mind, the world, and anything other than Maharaji. That is basically all Maharaji's cult is in a nut shell. You just learn to do that and it becomes automatic. You don't even think about it. The problem is you are stuck compromising your values because Maharaji lacks integrity and morals, and also with a weird Hindiu duality system of 'knowledge vs. everything else' which is ultimately VERY unsatisfying for your life as a whole. That 'automatic thinking' is really the thing that makes what Maharaji is about a cult. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 18:39:31 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: JW Subject: To Millochie and Zac Message: Amen JW!! 'got my brain back from the dry cleaners'..er, do they charge extra for that?? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 15:06:44 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Denise Subject: To Millochie and Zac Message: Hi Denise, First of all, I need a little time to digest how this thread has developed (i.e. the four responses from Jethro, JM, Happy, JW). To me, there's two dynamics occuring here. One is the majority of reponses/opinions you're getting on this forum , since about ten days ago, and the other is what you are specifically asking at the top of this thread. I think your question is getting answered by others (like JW) more specifically at the 'curious peace' sub-thread below. I'd prefer to talk here in the open for a number of reasons, no matter how much it sometimes can be challenging to stay on a specific topic (or a specific part of a premie coming to grips with leaving the cult). When I first arrived here, I put up the 'Real Healing' thread which I'm sure you remember, because you offered one of the very kind, thoughtful and constructive responses. Anyway, if need be, I'll set up my email through Katie or Brian and perhaps do it that way, if you feel it warrants a so-called 'private' discussion. But, unlikely at this time. I have been treated extremely well here by the...shall we say, 'locals.' ;-) You, seem to have had some very ups and downs in that regard. I need to think about it a lot further before commenting on that aspect. But, I feel strongly that I should, and will shortly. I may need to clear the air for myself here before addressing your question(s). It's so nice to have friends -- it was nice to have friends when I was a premie too. What price did I pay for allowing that desire/enjoyment/comfort to censor my true feelings/thoughts? What I can say right now, in regards to the forum, [and am a big supporter of], is how you, me, and anyone here, can enjoy (short of making a threat) MORE uniqueness and individuality than could be found in any area or place or crowd associated with M or K (the good, bad and even the ugly). I suspect you don't have any problem recognizing that, because you are still here. As for your question above: I'm just one individual at a unique and one-of-a-kind stage in my life (and phase of my involvement/non-involvement with M and with K -- or, if you will, the meditation techniques and their personal effect that I experience from them). It is likely, very probable, that my feelings will continue to change right up until I die. I gotta get some work done, 'don't want to get into either subject too deeply at this moment and I'm finding myself talking in riddles. I am very happy to offer my present experience/thoughts to you if it can assist you in any way possible. 'Talk with shortly with more directness, perhaps later tonight. All the best, Miloochie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 15:36:03 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Denise Subject: To Millochie and Zac Message: Correction from above post: I see now, on the curious peace sub-thread, that 'Denise' is once again, more synonymous with 'Volleyball.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 16:09:11 (EST)
From: Denise Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: To Millochie and Zac Message: Sorry, I obviously offended a lot of y'all not meaning to. I was just being honest. I sincerely was taking advice from Jim to ask the two of you what I did. Maybe this just isn't the right place for me right now... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 18:31:31 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Denise Subject: To Millochie and Zac Message: I was just being honest. I sincerely was taking advice from Jim to ask the two of you what I did. Denise, I know you were. I need til at least tonight for a thoughtful response. 'Just popped in now while having some lunch. Maybe this just isn't the right place for me right now... Maybe your right, as sad as that statement is. It's damn sad. It makes me want to just bail from here... for awhile, at least. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 21:59:57 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Miloochie Subject: To Millochie and Zac Message: Dear Miloochie, Just so you know I spent a minute being sure I had the spelling of your name right before I posted this to you. I know I hate it if someone misspells my name. When they do they are actually spelling it correctly/legally but it is an emotional thing with me and the spelling I've adopted is very significant to me. Maybe this just isn't the right place for me right now... Maybe your right, as sad as that statement is. It's damn sad. It makes me want to just bail from here... for awhile, at least. OK dear, I was following you right along, I thought through your whole post and then I hit that last line. Is that your personal thought or a quote from another post. I know Denise said the first line and you the 2nd but the last has me confused. Hope you are OK and if you aren't that you can talk to someone about it. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 01:20:53 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Robyn Subject: I'm fine Message: Hi Robyn, I'm more than fine. Thanks for your concern. I do find that the forum is full of a lot of 'noise' right now. It's brimming with loud screeches of anger gone wild, hate, paranoia...'too much stuff like that right now. I have a response for Denise, but am holding off to see if things cool off a bit around here first. I don't think it's some strange perception on my part. It looks quite real from here. Premies, ex-premies. Later, Miloochie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 18:32:40 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Denise Subject: To Millochie and Zac Message: Denise - I'd be happy to discuss my reasons for leaving Maharaji either here or through Brian if he will forward your messages to me. He has my email address. I have ongoing discussions with two longtime premies who read the page regularly. We are friends and the discussions are mutually beneficial. One may be getting ready to post for the first time, the other may go to his grave with M stamped on his forehead. Either way we'll still be friends. My reasons for stopping the nonsense are not theoretical, they are practical experiences that I've had through the years with M and his organization. This page makes perfect sense to me. To so many of the posts I can say 'been there, done that, had that done to me, to my aspirant friend, did that to someone who got in the way of M's desire, etc.etc. For me this is not hearsay. Charanand said to me he didn't want to get to close to the fire, meaning GMJ. Why? Because people, not things, get burned. I am tired of watching it. I am tired of enabling it. I am disgusted with those who put up with it. Those that put up with it believe from the bottom of their heart that MJ is the lord. That is their excuse and their rationalization. I am not interested in that excuse anymore. If GMJ was the lord and cared about my soul or my life or any of the hundreds maybe thousands of premies that read this page regularly he would address the issues at hand for our benefit. That didn't happen when he closed the ashrams, and it wont happen now. See his quote below. 'I found that the best way to deal with a problem is to ignore it.' When you become the problem he ignores Denise, you'll know what to do. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 18:46:24 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Zac Subject: Just ignore it Message: Zac, in what thread is that quote?? That is so GM to say that. What a turd. So much for practical advice for the human condition, eh? BTW, thanks for what you said about Minnesota Housewife. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 06:59:25 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Helen Subject: Just ignore it Message: Christ all the quotes run together in my mind but I beleive that was the fall program in Australia 1997. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 23:33:47 (EST)
From: bookworm Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Amtext Message: I have seen reference made to Amtext. Being familiar with the company, I am interested in any information people can provide pertaining to the connection between Amtext and the Guru Maharaji. (Please forgive me if this has been gone over in the .zip files--I don't have the plug-in required to download these). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 00:54:41 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: bookworm Subject: Amtext Message: Greetings bookworm. Being the resident ex-premie ex-Amtext bookbuyer on this forum it might be considered my responsibility to share this information with you, and I believe it would necessitate quite a lengthy discussion, for which I really don't have the time right now. So, I believe your best bet would be for you to find some assistance with your download problems... the discussion on Amtext began around Nov. 15, 98 when I made my first post in the thread entitled 'Hello Nimrod'. I'm sure we'll be having more discussions on Amtext in the future, so please stay tuned. In the meantime... you can always read a book. Try ' THE GURU PAPERS. Or anything by Dawkins. Or, anything by Walker Percy. Or, anything from Shmuley Boteach, the 'Kosher Sex' rabbi. Most of all, enjoy yourself...its great to be alive!! All the best, Nim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 09:38:20 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Nim Subject: Amtext Message: You provided a lot of good information on Amtext in previous (archived) posts. If you wanted to go back through them and arrange the information in an understandable format, I'd be happy to create a page onsite for it. But the information would have to be as complete as possible, and in a format similar to a report. Otherwise, it would require that I had a good understanding of the subject (which I DON'T) and was able to put it into a readable form. Feel free to email about this. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 09:19:04 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: bookworm Subject: ZIP files Message: You shouldn't need a plug-in in order to download the zipped archives onto your harddrive. The archives page contains links to utilities that can be found on the web, and used to unzip the compressed archives. If you're having any problems downloading or viewing them, email me at the address above and I'll try to help. Your email address will be kept confidential. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 22:28:52 (EST)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Everyone Subject: For all those who were hurt Message: For all those who were hurt, damaged and misled by Maharaji - there will be no respite given by me and others here to stop Maharaji from doing it again. We will not stop the pressure upon Maharaji, not now and not tomorrow and he may change the packaging many times but we will be relentless in our opposition against him. No harm is meant to Maharaji but his experimentation with human beings, his spouting of falsehoods and dangerous myths must be stopped. There will be no rest for him and no hiding place from the opposition he has brought upon himself. Maharaji has made a very big mistake; he has underestimated the people who he had as his devotees. He has underestimated their strength of feeling. I will not go away. I will not just forget that it ever happened and just settle for a quiet life. There is no way he can shake off 'his enemies' now. He will try every trick in the book to maintain and expand his influence but we will always be there to tell the true story. He will rue the day that he made fools out of some sincere people. For surely, we will hound him for the rest of his life and thwart his plans at every step. There is nothing nice or pleasant about this. But there is nothing nice about what Maharaji did to a lot of young people. If he isn't afraid to already he soon will be afraid of holding public events in the West. Not through any threat of violence but because of the distinct possibility that some ex-premie will stand up and challenge Maharaji while Maharaji is making a speech. He may decide to lie low but as soon as he reappears again, we'll be there like the man upon the stair and though he may pretend we don't exist, we will always be there to haunt him, so long as he tries to spread his falsehood. As I was walking on the stair I saw a man who wasn't there. He wasn't there again today, I wish that man would go away. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 00:14:57 (EST)
From: Luv Email: None To: To Maharaji Subject: For all those who were hurt Message: I thought I saw you somewhere close and then far away, where the grass is always green and the nights as clear as day. I thought I held your hand, looked into your eyes, adored you, and herard you whisper sighs. But then again it could have been a dream, cause as I've noticed things are'nt as they seem. It was a dream, a dream of youth and hopeing and longing. A sick joke. For, what you gave me I already had, and the things you said to me were not true. How can you Maharaji claim to be the nuturer of the soul when so many who served you are hurting, and all you can say is 'there'll always be people hurting' and 'if you don't like what I'm doing get lost!' We enthusiastically served and believed in you, and your Peace Bomb Satsang, you let us down. You hurt us, and because of you many of us have turned away from our own souls. You, Maharaji, have not been truthful, you have not been honest. When will you express graditude for those who have served you? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 00:22:21 (EST)
From: Morality Man Email: None To: Sir David Subject: You sound like superman . Message: I'm just too flabbergasted to say anything Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 00:52:05 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Morality Man Subject: You sound like Jerry Falwell Message: Dear Morality Man ('good name for you), I can only presume that you don't understand what and whom David is speaking to. Until the brain mush is flushed, I believe one can't even fathom the rage, pain, betrayal that lies beneath. That's been true for me and I see here post after post that confirm I'm not alone at all. I thought I was well over the anger, rage. Oh no, sitting right there below the surface, under my 'thirst' for truth, love, kindness...is more real truth about all of this...and it's ugly. I support fully David's statement. I do not feel he is trying to be a 'superman.' He's just being...a man. Miloochie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 01:14:05 (EST)
From: Morality man Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: You sound like Jerry Falwell Message: Dear Maloochie ,who's Jerry Falwell?I've made many fuck ups and mistakes in my life and I'm sure I'll fuck up some more,but I put it down to experience and try to learn from my mistakes.There my mistakes,I own them and any anger I have is mine ,and I'm the one who is responsible, not someone else.I'm sorry that your still hurting Maloochie,but IMO that has everything to do with you and fuck all to do with anyone else.Morality Man has spoken. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 01:46:10 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Morality man Subject: You sound like Nil, asshole!! Message: Being the chickenshit that you are, and not having the courage to face the wrath you so rightly deserve for some of your more brutal performances here on the forum, you find it necessary to hide behind yet another pseudonym(hey there Billy and Bob),this time 'Morality man' You've sucked up m's dribble like there was no tomorrow, and now it's coming out of you like shit going through a goose! For m to be employing as he always has, the big lie of blaming the victim, just emphasizes the extent to which he is a true, little spiritual nazi. As far as people abandoning their principles, so they can satisfy the whims and fancies of your god-forsaken little prick of a mahafucker...now what kind of a morality is that!!? And now you call yourself 'Morality man'? Thanks for the laugh, big guy:):):) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 02:14:59 (EST)
From: Mortality Man Email: None To: Nim Subject: You sound like Nim, asshole!! Message: You sure sound like a nasty little fuck and I suppose that's all m's fault.I wouldn't mind betting that you've always been a nasty little fuck.And that's just the point I was making to Maloochie.Grow up dickhead.I ain't no preamie and I never heard of Billy and Bob.Man ,you sure do talk like a victim.Your choice. Ah morality,you want to talk of morality just let me know. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 02:37:54 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Mortality Man Subject: You sound like Nil, asshole!! Message: You sure sound like a nasty little fuck and I suppose that's all m's fault Well I was his student after all, and if you want a role model of a nasty little fuck, well then...who better than the mahafucker? I wouldn't mind betting that you've always been a nasty little fuck. Go right ahead, make my day...you'd lose!! I ain't no preamie and I never heard of Billy and Bob. Ya, and I ain't no Jew, and I never heard of Abie and Moe. It's 'premie' BTW, not preamie. Check your spelling. It's your identity afterall, you should know how to spell it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 02:48:18 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Mortality, Morality man Subject: You sound like Nil, asshole!! Message: PS. Cute little switch from morality to mortality, schmendrik. We'll keep an eye open for you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 03:38:36 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Morality man Subject: You sound like Jerry Falwell Message: Dear Maloochie ,who's Jerry Falwell? You don't know? Yeah, right. I've made many fuck ups and mistakes in my life and I'm sure I'll fuck up some more,but I put it down to experience and try to learn from my mistakes. Ditto. If you truly pay attention here (which you are still not taking my advice to do), you'll find that's a common thread throughout the ex's who post. Becoming an ex-premie IS learning from my mistakes. There my mistakes,I own them and any anger I have is mine You are absolutely correct. 'Couldn't agree more. Basic common sense. ,and I'm the one who is responsible, not someone else. WRONG. You are responsible for your anger, your reaction. And you are responsible for however you put yourself in danger's way. Even if I just stepped off a curb and a swerving car suddenly hit me, I am responsible for stepping off that curb at that precise nanosecond on that precise piece of this planet's real estate, even if the light said it was clear for me to walk. I did that, no matter what the circumstances. I am NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DRUNK WHO HIT ME. In fact, it is my DUTY to see that that lunatic does not do it to others. NOT for my own anger -- that's about healing, and other's healing (read David's post again, and again if you have to -- [for PETE'S SAKE, if you're going spout off here then PAY ATTENTION]. This is for the safety of others, justice, truth, reality, and a better world for you and me. That person must take responsibility also, even if it takes some bruised pedestrians to talk a little, make a plan, and get this drunken driver off the streets. I'm sorry that your still hurting Maloochie,but IMO that has everything to do with you and fuck all to do with anyone else. Whomever you are, I'll take your 'empathy' at face value and appreciate the gesture. LET ME MAKE IT VERY CLEAR: I do NOT want your sympathy or anyone elses. GOT THAT? I am PERFECTLY AWARE of the responsibility of any anger or ANY emotion that I choose to feel. GOT THAT? Your sin, Mora-Lib-y Man, is ... 'underestimating' others. That's M-I-loochie. Have a nice day. ;-) PS My anger is fractional. I'm almost at the full forgiveness stage: Where I help put him behind bars. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 05:36:49 (EST)
From: Morality Man Email: None To: Miloochie and Nim Subject: You sound like Jerry Falwell Message: Come on guys,lighten up.All I did was mention the R word (responsibility),oh fuck, I said it again,sorry guys. Maloochie,why is it strange that I don't know who Jerry Falwell is.Assumming he's American,it would appear that the Americanisation of the world is incomplete.Now that's a happy note to sign off on.:) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 10:58:17 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: Morality Man Subject: MM is Keith's pal, Mick Message: Given the fact he's not from USA, he didn't know how to spell premie, his lack of involvement, his inanity, and his puncuation, which exactly mimics Mick's shitty punctuation, ALL point to '''Mick'' from Oz, who is a good friend of Keith's. They share similiar philosophies and are both a bit pissy. I wouldn't be surprised if we receive a few 'guest posts' from Keith using Mick's computer. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 01:32:32 (EST)
From: Mortality Man Email: None To: gerry Subject: MM is Keith's pal, Mick Message: OK,so little gerry thinks I'm Mick hey.Go ask big Gerry who he thinks I am and get back to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 11:01:09 (EST)
From: Ggerry Email: None To: Mortality Man Subject: Wait a minute... Message: MM isn't Mick...it's Keith using Mick's computer because Keith's blocked from posting under his ISP! Hey Keith, did you see where SHP got the Keith Award this year? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 15:34:20 (EST)
From: Morality Man. Email: None To: Ggerry Subject: gerry,Gerry,quite contrary. Message: So this is big Gerries version of reality hey.I'de take it easy on that dope your smoking friend as I suspect it's been sprayed by Big Brother. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:17:51 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Morality man Subject: You sound like Jerry Falwell Message: Dear MM, I don't know if you understand but this is a brainwashing cult taking children from their families, parents from their children, personalities from the individual. For what, to support M in the style he has grown acustom to! It would be like just letting a theif go because it was something that just happened in your life to teach you a lesson. While that may be true, that person should not be let to do the deed again and again to innocent people because they need the lesson. Some have given up over 20 years of their lives, how sad. Now they are starting over and god, I can't imagine how that is. I had an easy 2 years way back when but I BELIEVE the things people have said here and I know that M is not the protector of anyone but himself. I even met someone from this site who was very close to M and although he holds no hate or grudges he thinks M should be stopped from using premies for his own gain. The meditation is an ability that the human body posesses without M yet he tells premies it is he who gives the experience. He tells premies to deny their minds, their judgement, and common sence, this is how they let him hurt them. They give up their trust in themselves. You appreciate your mind, they hate theirs. Jerry Falwell is a religous right, hypocritical preacher If someone was gathering up children where you live, inlisting them as in Pinochio would you let your child go because he had a lesson to learn? Not if you thought he would be hurt, not without trying to help him to see the reality of the situation, that he will turn into a donkey and be worked to death. It isn't right.. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 00:30:01 (EST)
From: Morality man Email: None To: Robyn Subject: You sound like Jerry Falwell Message: Hello Robyn,a lot of what you have just said is open to interpretation depending on who you talk to.Some people went the same route as you and are living joyous happy lives.It's not like he was teaching you to be an axe murderer.Why did you join up in the first place?A lot of your gripes about M are the same you could have with any guru,desciple relationship,it goes with the territory IMO and if that's the lifeway you choose then that's what you should expect.But it was your choise when to join and when to leave.I can't see what the big problem is with taking responsibility for your actions.It seems to be like waving the proverbial red flag around here.Maybe it's easier to blame other people for our lives but in the long run I don't think your doing yourself any favours.It's been my experience that if I'm somewhere I don't want to be ,I move on.I don't know what a pinochio is but you sure paint a grim picture.After all,what's he teaching?to look inside and see the beauty there and that doesn't sound too bad to me.If it didn't work for you ,fine,move on.I had a brief flirtation with Guru Mia(sp) and the guru disciple trip wasn't for me,so I moved on.I know people that have been right into Siddha for many years and they love it,but it wasn't for me;different horses for different courses Robyn.I meditate a lot and I can see how a lot of what gets said about the mind is being taken out of context.Maybe I'm Jerry Falwels love chid.Anyway,all the best. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 08:19:31 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Morality man Subject: You sound like Jerry Falwell Message: Dear MM, Pinochio(sp) was probably a story before Walt Disney got it but it is a children's Disney movie and story. I see what you are saying about moving on but I also think part of that is dealing with the hurt and anger of missing out on 10 or 20 years or more of your life believing in something that wasn't what it was put out to be. This site is here for those just getting out, and thinking of getting in and also for those of us who were in a long time ago, many of whom have held on to that anger, never processing through it or others who still held some attachment to the idea that they should be back in the main stream of the cult. I have to tell you that I have had a bit of a rough morning and your comment about being Jerry Farwell's love child had me laughing out loud! Thanks for that. :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 08:25:27 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Robyn Subject: You sound like Jerry Falwell Message: MM, Shoot, I forgot to tell you that Miloochie(I've got it! the spelling I mean), did accept responsibility for his(I think)/her own anger and his analogy about the drunk driver was much better than mine about Pinochio. M's the drunk driver and even though one person may live and recover or not be hurt at all by being hit by the drunk driver, that driver should still be stopped from hitting others over and over again over many years and maybe just add in there that maybe the drunk driver gets some insurance money every time he has an accident. I know that wouldn't be but I just wanted to add it in there anyway, what the hell. I've got to take the dogs out and get my ass to work. I rushed this and hope it makes sense. Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 18:27:57 (EST)
From: MM Email: None To: Robyn Subject: You sound like Jerry Falwell Message: Hello Robyn,I'm glad I made you laugh.You know that old saying,'Laughter makes the world go round':)I take your points,but I think we will have to agree to disagree.All the best MM Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 20:07:27 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: MM Subject: You sound a nice guy Message: Hi MM, What is it you disagree with? 'Specifically what Robyn wrote in the previous message. Two more questions, if you don't mind. Do you believe that criminals should not be brought to justice? And why? What are you here for? Your mission? What do you want from being here? You say you're not a premie. What do you get out of being here? thanks, Miloochie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 01:27:58 (EST)
From: MM Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: You sound a nice guy too Message: Hello Miloochie,cool name by the way.Where do I disagree with Robyn.I think that you can sit around and talk till the cows come home about your anger and pain but I don't think it makes any difference in the long run .I know that not many will agree with me ,here or elsewhere,but IMO if you raise your vibe then the pain just doesn't exist anymore;meditation,the natural world,your children whatever,there is just so much around us to be thankful for and if there's not then maybe there should be.I don't want to write a book so I'll keep it short. I think you know my take on taking responsibility for my life.That has been an extremely empowering experience for me ,knowing that I have something to do with my life and that's it's not just happening to me.Awhile back I used to blame the shitty things in my life on others,it doesn't matter who ,there is always someone.These days I take responsibility for everything in my life and it has transformed me . My views on cults and brainwashing.You only get brainwashed if that's what you want.You could make an arguement that the catholic church is a cult and all it's followers are brainwashed,or Amway,or-------- About the crims.I suppose this is in reference to the big M.From what I've read here it would seem that there was a very strange bureaucracy in place around him but in my humble opinion it was still your choice if you bought into that and the ashram thing.I would say that M does owe his followers a duty of care up to a certain point and then they are responsible for themselves. Why am I here?Do you mean here in this body,or here on this forum? Assuming you mean the forum,well some of the off topic stuff I find interesting.Also there are some interesting people here.Most of you are probably the same vintage as me and went through the seventies and had some of the same experiences,and you obviously have a spiritual bent.I haven't a mission here Miloochie. All the best MM Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 03:30:37 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: MM Subject: You sound like you can type Message: Ok, but you still didn't quite answer at least one of my questions. Do you believe criminals should be brought to justice? And why? Can you answer that specific question? thanks, Miloochie And BTW, so you have no first hand experience with Maharaji, what's known as Knowledge, or close relationships with premies? Yes/no? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 05:19:39 (EST)
From: Michael Email: None To: Miloochie Subject: You sound like you can type Message: Hey Miloochie,about criminals,I think I can see where your going to go with this.Responsibilty;don't do the crime if you can't do the time. I have premie friends,have seen videos,talked of knowledge but never practiced it,but fuck,it's just meditation.I also have a very close and dear friend who is an X premie. MM Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 09:10:37 (EST)
From: AJW Email: None To: Sir David Subject: The New Bongoes Message: G'day milud, You wrote, '...he will soon be afraid of holding events in the West.' Does this mean there will be a new wave of 'bongoes', carried from programmes, kicking and screaming, 'It's all bullshit. He's only in it for the money. God isn't snot. Krishna crown maketh not a Krishna.. etc' Blimey, this sounds entertaining. I might even go and watch. Anton le heretic. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 19:56:48 (EST)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: AJW Subject: The New Bongoes Message: It's almost worth going to a program just in case it happens. The trouble is, I don't think he'll do any more live events, for this reason. Video feeds only, perhaps. But it's not quite the same is it, standing up and shaking your fist at a video screen and screaming, 'hypocrite, charlatan' etc. They really would think we're bongos then. It looks like the Net is our only recourse to action. I did used to like your satsangs, by the way. Always amusing and entertaining. One line I always remember well was where you said something about standing in a newsagents and making firtive glances up to the top shelf. In the midst of all this heaviness, I thought, here's a guy who still hasn't lost his true perspective on life. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 06:04:56 (EST)
From: AJW Email: anthginn@yahoo.com To: Sir Dave Subject: The New Bongoes Message: Hi Sir Dave, If you don't mind revealing your secret identity, email me and tell me who you are. In real life my name is Anne Johnson. Anth. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 19:21:23 (EST)
From: peter howie Email: petebear@ozemail.com.au To: Everyone Subject: emeralds Message: Does anyone recall the Sri Lankan emeralds stories. They went something like this. Premies from the Us or Europe would get in touch with premies from Sri Lanka. The premies in Sri Lanka had access to raw emeralds and would sell them to the premies from the US or wherever, at cost - this was without the exorbitant taxes the Sri Lanka government was supposed to impose on them. This meant that the premies had a source of extremely cheap emeralds. These would then be smuggled out of Sri Lanka and smuggled into the US or wherever and sold for a hefty profit. The hefty profit was then meant to go to the 'Boss' as he was known in the early 80's in Australia. (The term the 'Boss' eventuated because the premies had formed a larg organisation around building his residence in Brisbane, Australia - the workforce then became a virtual slave labour devotional building company making money for the 'Boss'. As it turned out money was lost rather than made - but the Boss's residence was dutifully built) Supposedly the original premie emerald smugglers made so much money that they buggered off and lived the good life with all that loot. I was being propositioned as a substitute smuggler at the time. Nothing eventuated and the contact person themselves had a few run ins with the law themselves over the next few years. However I was such the devotee at the time I could easily have gone for it. I imagine I could have ended up sweating away most of my life in some Sri Lankan jail for emerald smuggling which carried serious penalties - equivalent to drug smuggling. Cheers Peter Howie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 20:29:55 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: peter howie Subject: Was Maharaji aware that this Message: was being done in his name? Or did the magic all knowing powers of the living lord cease to function properly when it suited his purposes, ie. Cash Flow. Me thinks I smell a skunk! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 20:35:41 (EST)
From: peter howie Email: None To: Zac Subject: Was Maharaji aware that this Message: MaharajJi's awareness was assumed by me - but this is a grey area and attempts were probably made to keep him at arms length - to create plauseable deniability like Ollie North in the US with Ronnie Rayguns - I was in the ashram at the time - I was being seduced by the overseas trips and going to programs. Cheers peter Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 04:34:44 (EST)
From: Jep Email: None To: peter howie Subject: emeralds Message: I knew about the emerald smugglers but they did not work out of shri lanka. They were nothing exotic as doing it for M. They were in it just to be able to get to programs. The ones I know are laying low. It is no good life they are leading because of psycological effects of the premie scene combined with coke. M definitely knew what they were up to though. I cant say more about it.. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 17:56:19 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The India Fight and Donations Message: Two artlicles of note here: Article Number 1: Newsweek, May 24, 1975: A New Delhi, India, judge told Guru Maharaj Ji and Bal Bhagwan Ji, his 24-year-old brother and rival, that they must settle their dispute over who is the 'perfect master' of Divine Light Mission out of court. U.S. Divine Light Mission president Robert Mishler says the Guru may return to the United States in about two weeks. [Apparently the judge threw out the 'who is perfect master' part of the suit and M and BBJ just continued fighting over the Indian properties, and I guess each got some, from what I can tell. As you can tell by the next article, a year later the dispute is still going on. Also, note that some Nixon croney asked M to speak in Washington and, as I recall, this was where he was trying out the short-lived 'humanitarian leader' mantle, this being 1976.] Newsweek, March 8, 1976: Within four years after Indian Guru Maharaj Ji brought his Divine Light Mission to the U.S. in 1971, the pudgy teenager had acquired 50,000 American followers [what happened to them?], a wife who was once an airline stewardess, a fleet of cars and a $400,000 retreat in Malibu, California. His organization, meanwhile, was running up a $650,000 deficit, and in 1975 the Perfect Master was nearly toppled from power. His mother, disgusted with her son's 'playboy' lifestyle, announced that she had ousted Maharaj Ji as leader of the movement and awarded the title to one of his brothers. The family feud is now being fought in the courts of India... Fewer Americans are joining these days, but more members are donating 10 per cent of their incomes to the mission's coffers. Such tithing has reduced the debt to $80,000 and kept Maharaj Ji living in style. Now 18 and the father of a year-old daughter named Premlata, the guru generally keeps a low public profile, but he turned up in Washington last week to speak at a luncheon sponsored by the United States Citizens Congress, whose founder is a controversial religious leader himself: Rabbi Baruch Kroff, Richard Nixon's die-hard defender. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 17:23:55 (EST)
From: Luv Email: None To: Forum Founders Subject: Thank You Forum Police Message: You know what I'm thanking you for..... I just don't want to give that person too much attention. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 16:48:08 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: M's Marriage and Citizenship Message: Two articles, 3 years apart for reasons that will be apparent, are instructive on this. I think the history section of the website, suggests that Maharaji got married so young, at 16, mostly for immigration purposes to establish himself separate from him mother and brothers. These articles kind of demonstrate that. Article #1: New York Times, May 22, 1974 (with photograph) Guru Maharaj Ji, the 16-year-old Indian guru of Divine Light Mission, married his secretary and former airline stewardess, Marolyn Lois Johnson. Maharaj Ji received court permission from Judge Morris E. Cole because he was too young to obtain a marriage license in Colorado without parental consent. [WHICH I GATHER WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FORTHCOMING ANYTIME SOON.] Article #2: Associated Press, October 19, 1977 (3 years later) DATELINE: Denver Guru Maharaj Ji, spiritual leader of the Divine Light Mission, said, 'It's beautiful,' after becoming a U.S. citizen in a special naturalization ceremony. The 19-year-old native of Hardwar, India, was sworn in as a U.S. citizen Tuesday by Chief U.S. District Court Judge Fred Winner. 'It seemed that now was as good a time as any,' said the guru when asked why he had sought citizenship at this time. His Denver-based Divine Light Mission claims from 30,000 to 50,000 followers throughout the country.[Yeah, right!] Among those attending the ceremony were the guru's American wife, Marolyn, a former airline stewardess; his brother Raja Ji, and about a dozen Divine Light associates. The guru filed for citizenship under a law which permits persons married to U.S. citizens to be naturalized after three years. Maharaj Ji maintains a residence here and a $550,000 estate in Malibu, California. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 17:03:55 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: JW Subject: thanks for these articles Message: JW, if you can find the Miami Herald article I remember very well was a very good Mishler interview. It would have been late1978 or early 1979...probably 1978. Also, there is a Mishler thread below with a lot of speculation I do not want to add to but.... his wife was Eileen right? And I am not certain at all but I thought she also died in the crash. Do you know? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 17:11:23 (EST)
From: Long Time Lurker Email: None To: All Subject: thanks for these articles Message: At the time the lard got his citizenship I was reliably informed his occupation was listed on his brand new passport as, wait for it, INTERNATIONAL PERSONALITY. I wonder what it says now. Anybody know? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 17:15:24 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Long Time Lurker Subject: thanks for these articles Message: I think he's now an inventor, songwriter, poet, pilot, website designer, financial investor, beneficial owner of Amtext, watchmaker, collector of antique cars and watches, musician and video production assitant. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 18:07:46 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: g's mom Subject: thanks for these articles Message: I haven't been able to find the Mishler article in the Denver Post either, I guess I need to use another search engine. I met Mishler's wife one time, but I don't recall her name, although Eileen sounds right. I don't know if she is alive or not. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 03:32:12 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: JW Subject: Sadly, the funny part is... Message: the $550,000 dollar Malibu estate. Being most applicable to JW's city is the fact that $500k is probably the median price for a modest house. His estate must be worth at least $10M if not close to $30M today. But who would ever buy such a white elephant? He'll probably have to give it away to the State of California and they'll turn it into another Hearst Castle with premie operated shuttles leaving on the hour from the Trancas Market. With a premium ticket price to see the spot where he was struck dead by a bolt of exceptionally rare California lightning - probably like Elvis and having to do with those damn gold toilet seats. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 10:40:08 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: barney Subject: yeah, I thought that too.. Message: like when they do documentaries on the Manson murders Sharon Tate lived in a 100,000 dollar estate! I think he could sell it...LA has lots of people who might enjoy garish homes...Kashogi's and some stars and such....but I tend to agree with you that many of the ultrawealthy might find the place, as it is described I havenot been there, a little over the top. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 10:41:25 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: g's mom Subject: Maybe Dennis Rodman would buy Message: it. But he is only making a million this year...poor thing. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 13:44:09 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: barney Subject: Are you Kidding? Message: Yeah, property values in California have skyrocketed since the 70s, probably at least 4 or 5 times, which would have made his old place worth at least $2,000,000. The new place must be worth $15,000,000 - $20,000,000. I don't think he plans to sell; I think he plans to spend the rest of his life there. Plus, even if he did want to sell, some rich premie, or group of premies, would buy it in a minute. By the way, if anyone has time, go to the Recorder of Los Angeles County and find out who actually is the legal OWNER of that theme park that passes as M's 'residence.' I would really like to know who, or what, is actually the legal owner of the property. All you need is the address to do a title search. Do we have the address? Should be easy to get. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 15:01:16 (EST)
From: barney Email: None To: JW Subject: Are you Kidding? Message: Yeah, I'm kidding. You're probably correct that he won't be selling it in his lifeteime, but unless he takes it with him when he Goes there might be some kind of liquidation unless his successor can keep enough money coming in. We'll just have to outlive him and see what happens. I've said it before and I'll say it again, he should give us (the ex's) the house as a bribe to leave him alone. We can turn it into a museum kind of like the old Getty estate or Hearst Castle. Microsoft Street 98 has addresses, but his doesn't show up when poking around in that vicinity. He probably has it listed on a private road - 'Highway to Hell' or something. It would be interesting to do a little research, though. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 10:57:34 (EST)
From: gerry Email: None To: JW Subject: Are you Kidding? Message: Where I live, I can call the county assesor's office with the address and they will tell me who owns the property. You needn't do a title search for that info, although a title search would be interesting. All you need is the address to do a title search. Do we have the address? Should be easy to get. Isn't it on one of J-M's pages? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 16, 1999 at 17:16:04 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: The draft! Message: JW: You know..... there are times when I wish the draft had never gone away! Can you imagine if he had been drawn? :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |