Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 42 | |
From: Mar 13, 1999 |
To: Mar 23, 1999 |
Page: 3 Of: 5 |
Mary M -:- Bankrupt -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 08:26:14 (EST) Roger Drek -:- My Visualization - Tacky! -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 04:16:38 (EST) __Zac -:- My Visualization - Tacky! -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 07:47:55 (EST) ____Jerry -:- My Visualization - Tacky! -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 09:05:45 (EST) __Way -:- My Visualization - Tacky! -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 10:47:43 (EST) ____L -:- My Visualization - Tacky! -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 12:36:24 (EST) ______eb -:- To L - Very Funny!!! -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 14:39:22 (EST) ________L -:- To eb aka Running Bear -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 17:28:39 (EST) ________Robyn -:- To L - Very Funny!!! -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 14:03:39 (EST) ______Helen -:- My Visualization - Tacky! -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 12:32:56 (EST) ________L -:- To Helen & Robyn -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 15:08:24 (EST) __________Robyn -:- To Helen & Robyn -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 15:16:51 (EST) ____________L -:- To Robyn -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 17:21:17 (EST) __________Helen -:- L -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 16:48:55 (EST) ____________L -:- Helen -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 17:31:47 (EST) ______Robyn -:- My Visualization - Tacky! -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 13:57:50 (EST) __Katie -:- Tacky is good -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 12:46:30 (EST) ____Mike -:- You are TOO much, Katie :-) nt -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 17:16:26 (EST) ____Minnesota Housewife -:- Tacky is good -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 16:54:17 (EST) __g's mom -:- My Visualization - Tacky! -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 14:23:30 (EST) __g's mom -:- steal this idea... -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 14:26:49 (EST) ____g's mom -:- pic of Red Heels and MelBourne -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 14:29:55 (EST) ______g's mom -:- Sir David guards does security -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 14:44:43 (EST) ________bill -:- Sir David guards does security -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 15:14:33 (EST) __________aoa -:- Sir David guards does security -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 00:46:23 (EST) ____________bb -:- aoa -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 11:07:04 (EST) ______________aoa -:- (wrt) aoa -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 12:52:15 (EST) ________________Robyn -:- (wrt) aoa -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 14:11:43 (EST) __________________aoa -:- Yes :) (nt) -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 14:53:18 (EST) ____________________Helen -:- Who I look like -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 17:06:45 (EST) ______________________L -:- Wholesome Is Good (nt) -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 17:35:23 (EST) ______________________g's mom -:- hey she is cool... -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 18:38:19 (EST) ________________________Helen -:- The other person I look like -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 19:50:41 (EST) __________Robyn -:- Sir David guards does security -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 14:08:41 (EST) ____________JW -:- The best face, and the party -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 15:08:30 (EST) ______________Robyn -:- The best face, and the party -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 15:18:44 (EST) Bobby -:- The Role of Belief.. (semi OT) -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 15:06:41 (EST) __Selene -:- The Role of Belief.. (semi OT) -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:02:34 (EST) ____Bobby -:- Hi Selene! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:27:15 (EST) ______Mike -:- Bobby, may I ask -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:15:32 (EST) ________Bobby -:- Bobby, may I ask -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:11:39 (EST) ______Selene -:- Hi Selene! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:33:15 (EST) ________Bobby -:- Hi Selene! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:23:50 (EST) __________Selene -:- Hi Selene! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:39:37 (EST) ____________Bobby -:- Hi Selene! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:51:04 (EST) ______________Selene -:- Hi Selene! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 21:38:17 (EST) ________________Bobby -:- Hi Selene! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 21:56:51 (EST) ______Robyn -:- Hi Bobby -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 21:16:24 (EST) ________Bobby -:- Hi Bobby -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 21:45:03 (EST) ______Helen -:- Hi Selene! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 22:22:24 (EST) ________Bobby -:- Hi Helen! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 22:43:56 (EST) ______Katie -:- Hi Bobby! -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 12:29:18 (EST) __Mike -:- Nice to see you Bobby -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:06:27 (EST) ____Selene -:- Nice to see you Bobby -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:45:17 (EST) ______Bobby -:- Nice to see you Bobby -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:44:31 (EST) ____Bobby -:- Nice to see you Bobby -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:42:46 (EST) ______Helen -:- Nice to see you Bobby -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 22:33:47 (EST) ________Bobby -:- Nice to see you Bobby -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 00:03:15 (EST) __aoa -:- The Role of Belief.. (semi OT) -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 00:19:48 (EST) ____Bobby -:- The Role of Belief.. (semi OT) -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 00:38:19 (EST) ______Happy -:- Health, body and mind -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 11:48:48 (EST) ____aoa -:- Samadhi Cowboy -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 10:28:26 (EST) ______Happy -:- Samadhi Cowboy -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 12:34:22 (EST) ________aoa -:- Thanks, H (nt) -:- Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 02:05:19 (EST) __Bobby -:- Thank you friends! -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 21:42:07 (EST) ____And On Anand Ji -:- (wrt) Thank you friends! -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 10:35:30 (EST) ____bill -:- Thank you friends! -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 11:12:02 (EST) ____Mike -:- Thank you friends! -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 11:22:36 (EST) ____Helen -:- Thank you friends! -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 12:36:30 (EST) ______Bobby -:- Warning....personal expression -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 13:44:26 (EST) ________Mary M -:- Warning....personal expression -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 22:50:45 (EST) __________Helen -:- Warning....personal expression -:- Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 10:54:46 (EST) ________Katie -:- Warning....personal expression -:- Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 11:12:54 (EST) ________Miloochie -:- Warning....personal expression -:- Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 01:41:23 (EST) ____Bob -:- Thank you friends! -:- Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 04:41:46 (EST) Mike -:- Moldy Oldy books -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 14:47:37 (EST) __Mickey the Pharisee -:- Moldy Oldy books -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:17:07 (EST) ____Mike -:- Moldy Oldy books -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:45:30 (EST) ____Jerry -:- Moldy Oldy books -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 22:16:45 (EST) ______Mickey the Pharisee -:- Moldy Oldy books -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 22:49:12 (EST) JW -:- Did You Ever Hear This? -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 14:44:27 (EST) __JW -:- TO BRIAN -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 15:48:45 (EST) ____Brian -:- The poisoning -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:55:27 (EST) ______JW -:- The poisoning -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 00:13:01 (EST) __Nil -:- Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:15:10 (EST) ____Mickey the Pharisee -:- Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:23:06 (EST) ______Nil -:- Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:35:30 (EST) ________Mickey the Pharisee -:- Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:20:13 (EST) ______cp -:- Let me swap Nil for a ...... -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 21:09:06 (EST) ________Nil -:- Let me swap cp for...... -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 21:14:47 (EST) ____JW -:- Try Something Else, Nil -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:27:30 (EST) ______Nil -:- Spin on Doctor No -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:17:28 (EST) ________JW -:- He Didn't Stop -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:32:17 (EST) __________Nil -:- Sure he did. -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:53:51 (EST) ____________JW -:- What Is It Meant To Do? -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:04:30 (EST) ______________Nil -:- What Is It Meant To Do? -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:34:52 (EST) ________________JW -:- What Is It Meant To Do? -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:44:00 (EST) __________________Nil -:- What Is It Meant To Do? -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:18:21 (EST) ____________________JW -:- Come On Nil -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:59:31 (EST) ______________________Nim -:- Welcome Nil(slightly ot) -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 01:35:40 (EST) ______________________Nil -:- You Come On -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 19:01:08 (EST) ________________________Mike -:- You missed the point, Nil -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 19:13:10 (EST) __________________________JW -:- Thanks, Mike -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 19:33:10 (EST) __________________________Nil -:- Maybe not -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 20:18:22 (EST) ____________________________Mike -:- Maybe not -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 11:18:33 (EST) ______________________________Marshall -:- Maybe not -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 15:02:06 (EST) ________________________JW -:- You Sound Stupid -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 19:31:02 (EST) __________________________Nil -:- Ah forget it!! -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 20:10:42 (EST) ____________________________JW -:- Yeah, forget it!! -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 20:19:58 (EST) ______________Jean-Michel -:- He NEVER stopped darshan -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 03:49:59 (EST) ________________KK -:- He NEVER stopped darshan -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 06:27:55 (EST) __________________JW -:- Nil, Read KK's Post -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 10:06:01 (EST) __________________Mike -:- He NEVER stopped darshan -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 13:19:49 (EST) __________________Nil -:- He did in... -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 19:39:28 (EST) ____________________Mike -:- On the face of it -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 20:03:50 (EST) ______________________Nil -:- On the face of it -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 20:24:46 (EST) ________________________Marshall -:- Hot air -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 02:52:40 (EST) __________________________Mike -:- You said it better than I -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 11:13:06 (EST) ____________________________Marshall -:- Not Really -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 15:10:49 (EST) __________________________Nil -:- Hot air -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 16:14:52 (EST) ____________________________Mike -:- Hot air -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 17:41:15 (EST) ______________________________Nil -:- Hot air -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 19:28:21 (EST) ________________________________Mike -:- Hot air -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 19:41:13 (EST) __________________________________Nil -:- Hot air -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 20:39:24 (EST) ____________________________________hamzen -:- Hot air -:- Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 08:21:30 (EST) ____________________________JHB -:- Hot air -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 18:55:53 (EST) ______________________________Nil -:- Hot air -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 20:04:02 (EST) ________________________________JHB -:- So it's about faith? -:- Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 05:38:35 (EST) ________________________JW -:- On the face of it -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 13:34:32 (EST) __________________________Nim -:- On the face of it... to JW -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 21:33:15 (EST) ____________________________JW -:- On the face of it... to Nim -:- Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 01:19:06 (EST) ________Mike -:- Spin on Doctor No -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:34:29 (EST) __________Nil -:- Spin on Doctor No -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:08:55 (EST) ________JW -:- Also, Nil -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:49:14 (EST) ______cp -:- Try Washing Machine.elec dntns -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 00:56:58 (EST) ____Mike -:- Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:43:52 (EST) ______Nil -:- Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:40:32 (EST) ________Mike -:- Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:59:18 (EST) __________Nil -:- Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:22:12 (EST) ____________Mike -:- Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 12:38:34 (EST) ______________Nil -:- Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 20:35:27 (EST) ________________Mike -:- Not uncomfortable at all -:- Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 11:57:53 (EST) __bill -:- that aint the reason -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:30:05 (EST) ____JW -:- that aint the reason -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:55:28 (EST) __Nim -:- To JW -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:37:39 (EST) ____JW -:- Got it, Thank you (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:51:02 (EST) ______Nim -:- Great!!(nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 00:02:57 (EST) __Jethro -:- Did You Ever Hear This? -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 02:36:35 (EST) ____Happy -:- Hans Ji slipped on soap -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 11:32:45 (EST) ______Jean-Michel -:- OK: mom lost her soap piece -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 11:53:35 (EST) ______Stevei -:- Make it Sound Good -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 12:18:28 (EST) ________Happy -:- The soap story is true -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 13:21:04 (EST) __________Zac -:- On this lie alone -:- Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 16:39:21 (EST) |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 08:26:14 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Nil, Bob, Shp......... Subject: Bankrupt Message: Just a short memo to let you know: He may have a jet a mansion a Rolls a sound studio a hundred million bucks Nellie's watch but be never forget and do tuck it away: He is quite simply eschatologically bankrupt! So, as the old blues singer forewarns, 'Yo gonna need somebody on you're bond chile, when it's late at midnight, and ole man death come a slippin in, you gonna need somebody on yo bond.' Sincerely, Mary no longer eschatologically bankrupt! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 04:16:38 (EST)
From: Roger Drek Email: None To: Everyone Subject: My Visualization - Tacky! Message: Call me crude and you are right! I won't deny it. I really don't want to break the stride of all the hard breaking news that has hit the forum this week. But nobody reads my posts anyway so what's the difference? In reading the thread from JW titled Did You Ever Hear This? and the subsequent posts between JW and Nil I'm imagining what either of them might look like. Of course, my biases come into play and JW is a daper, handsome man with strong features who takes good care of himself. I visualize Nil much like his name and is a Gollum like creature. The Us, You, Me, Them character I see as a large, pepper gray thinning haired, out of shape man sitting in his boxer shorts, a white Stanley Kowlaski t-shirt, a cigarette dangling from his lips with a quart of Budweiser nearby. I have a better visual opinion of CD, but he is not all that interesting to use words to describe. Sorry, CD. And I have other fantasies relating to my favorite ladies of the Forum - Lady Jane and Tami Rainbow (or whatever last name she's currently going by), but I don't dare tell you what I see! And the real women of the Forum (yes, real women) are all stunningly gorgeous and sophisticated. All somewhere between Gweynth Paltrow and her mother Blythe Danner. (sp?) Now, that I've really introduced what could be the most stupid post ever, what are your fantasies, your visualizations of putting a face to a name. And worse, if I was really tacky I'd create a page on the House of Drek and search out images on the web for each and everyone of you. Finally, if you think I've slandered you or if you want to set me straight please email me your photo or a photo that you want to represent you or act as your avatar. Or send a photo (no real photos of these people) that represents someone on the Forum. Act quickly because the Forum Elves probably won't like this exceptionally tacky idea! I'm outta here! drek@oz.net Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 07:47:55 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: My Visualization - Tacky! Message: Hey Roger we could ask people to post the celebrity they most think they look like. I've been told I look like Tom Weiskoff the golf pro and TV golf analyst. You don't look like George Castanza do you? he..he Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 09:05:45 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Zac Subject: My Visualization - Tacky! Message: When I was a teenager, people always told me I looked like Eddie Haskel of 'Leave It To Beaver'. I don't know who I look like now but I don't mind if people want to visualize me as Eddie. 'Hello, Mrs Cleaver.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 10:47:43 (EST)
From: Way Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: My Visualization - Tacky! Message: I too have a very clear idea of what all the regulars on this list look like, based on nothing more than automatic subconscious conjecture. I see JW as the usual tall, thin, calm American initiator type with clean, chizeled features (although he's not exactly calm anymore, is he?) From my very first readings of Jim, I see him as a middle-aged Jay North, still thin and wiry and with no hair loss, either blond or red, but more menacing than Mr. North could ever be. (I realize I could be completely wrong on this one). AJW looks like that guy on Dharma and Greg, only shorter and without the movie star teeth. Denise, the new one, is either Marianne Faithful or Roseanne Barr, I can't decide. You, Roger Drek, are a youngish Einstein with wild hair, but black and curly instead of white. I haven't figured out Malibu Mole, not even the gender. Of course Monica Lewis is a dead ringer for Monica Lewinsky. I was fairly close about Jean-Michel, whose photo is posted. And I believe Mili's image is also posted on his site, very eastern european ethnic, dark and a big nose. BTW, I see myself as a Leonardo look-alike, but I'm not going to say which one. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 12:36:24 (EST)
From: L Email: None To: Everyone Subject: My Visualization - Tacky! Message: In one of my College undergraduate psychology classes we were given an assignment as to what animal our personality most emulated, similar to American Indian philosophy. Mine was the otter, and this was also the animal that was chosen for me at an American Indian Pow Wow I attended. I think it would be interesting to see what cartoon character or series everyone identified with. I hear people all the time say their life is like a soap opera. My character would be Pinky and the Brain, actually that sounds like my former relationship with M. Guess which one thought he was the brain? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 14:39:22 (EST)
From: eb Email: None To: L Subject: To L - Very Funny!!! Message: I Love Pinky and the Brain. I go by Running Bear, although my mother (a Choctaw) says I don't remind her of a bear at all. People say I look like the woman who was in Dances With Wolves and Grand Canyon--I always forget her name. She looks like she's always about to cry. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 17:28:39 (EST)
From: L Email: None To: eb Subject: To eb aka Running Bear Message: Mary McDonnell was the one who was in both Dances with Wolves and Grand Canyon. She played Kevin Costner's love interest in Dances, very beautiful lady. And The Brain does remind me alittle of M, he wants to rule the world. Yes, I'm the goofy Pinky, looking at M saying 'is that right boss'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 14:03:39 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: eb Subject: To L - Very Funny!!! Message: Dear Eb, God can you tell I am not getting any work done today! Don't forget some of us know how you dress when you are Running Bear! :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 12:32:56 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: L Subject: My Visualization - Tacky! Message: Otters are great. They just want to have fun. My husband and I play a tune about otters called 'The Brandy Tree': 'Sun come follow my happy way WInd come walk beside me Moon on the mountain go with me The wondrous way I know' The song is written from the perspective of an otter, the speaker in the song is an otter. It's a beautiful song. I'm into penguins, turtles, and frogs myself, and of course, wolves and dogs Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 15:08:24 (EST)
From: L Email: None To: Helen & Robyn Subject: To Helen & Robyn Message: Helen, Song sounds great, a happy song, and yes, I'm told I do clown around allot and that's why I'm associated with the Otter. Robyn, ya know, I wish I could find out what I was in a past life? I went to a workshop on Regression Therapy, where they hypnotized this woman and took her back to a past life experience, it was pretty interesting. My philosophy is why do we work jobs, go to school and do all this other stuff if we can't have fun. Being able to play and have fun is the best part of living. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 15:16:51 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: L Subject: To Helen & Robyn Message: Dear L, I got away from the fun of life for awhile, not all together but just recently started to feel joy for no reason other than being alive. Feels GREAT! This forum has helped me in that, not because of my time with M but just in sorting out myself. I don't know I was an otter I just wish I was. :) Actually when I worked at a zoo, I found out that otters are really mean but amongst their own they are so playful! Just makes you smile to watch them. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 17:21:17 (EST)
From: L Email: None To: Robyn Subject: To Robyn Message: Joy for the sake of joy, what a novel concept. You sound like a outdoors type of person; working at a zoo and loving the water and all. So what is your alter ego in this life-time, or your look alike? As eb said her's was Running Bear, and others mentioned T.V. characters, and yes mine was a cartoon. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 16:48:55 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: L Subject: L Message: I agree, I think I play just a little too much and that's why no $$$ in the bank!!! Oh well, at least noone can say I didn't stop and smell the roses Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 17:31:47 (EST)
From: L Email: None To: Helen Subject: Helen Message: You've proberly heard this before, but the key is to find a fun thing that you can make money at. I'm a teacher and I enjoy it very much, and I try to have fun with my students and not make it so heavy, and I get paid rather well for doing this. The other thing is I don't take myself too seriously. Some of the more tragic things in my life, like my involvement with Maharaji, I can look back on after awhile and just laugh out loud about what a fool I made of myself. It's important to sing, like you and your husband, and dance also. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 13:57:50 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: L Subject: My Visualization - Tacky! Message: Dear L, Did you notice my post 'water' below. I said I thought I was an otter in a past life! :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 12:46:30 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: Tacky is good Message: Act quickly because the Forum Elves probably won't like this exceptionally tacky idea! I'm outta here! Hey Roger, honey - You must have the misconception that we have good taste around here or that at least the Forum Elves do (they might, but I never have to hear about it). Honey, I have pink flamingos in my yard along with all the old cars, and a black velvet painting of Elvis (the OLD Elvis) in my bathroom. I could go on and describe my dinette set and double-wide decor, but you get the idea. Anyway, I think most of the people who post here know what I look like in real life, but I prefer Nimrod's Princess Leia image. You can use THAT if you want to. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 17:16:26 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Katie Subject: You are TOO much, Katie :-) nt Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 16:54:17 (EST)
From: Minnesota Housewife Email: None To: Katie Subject: Tacky is good Message: Now Katie, your decor is starting to make me all itchy to order some more Elvis merchandise from QVC. Remember I'm trying to kick my addiction..., but they do have the nicest things, you betcha. I love those lawn ornaments that look like a woman bending over, dontcha know and truck tire planters are the best. Gotta run, Love Minnesota Housewife Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 14:23:30 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: My Visualization - Tacky! Message: VP...has been and always will be Jan Michael Vincent. Not the Jan Michael Vincent he is now....he looks like he's partied a bit too much..but the seveties Jan Michael Vincent....you know...fabio haired and all...a link...http://lumen.simplenet.com/vincent/photogal.html and ex his his younger brother Matt Damon.....http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Academy/7805/damon.html KK is without a doubt Gwenyth Paltrou as she appeared in Emma...http://www.slipstream.com/homeschool/hilary/emma_01.jpg Nil is a disheveled Alan Dershowitz...http://uahc.org/congs/pa/pa001/jpegs.html Selene is Jennifer Lopez..try to get a pick of Jennifer Lopez you shall see why I did not post a link... I've seen picks of quite a few ex's so I can't guess those...so I cannot guess on them.. CD is Stuart Smalley! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 14:26:49 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Roger Drek Subject: steal this idea... Message: http://pantheon.yale.edu/~cio2/interactivetitle.html Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 14:29:55 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: all Subject: pic of Red Heels and MelBourne Message: http://pantheon.yale.edu/~cio2/shag.html Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 14:44:43 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: all Subject: Sir David guards does security Message: many people lined up to steal the cheese...http://pantheon.yale.edu/~cio2/patsdead.html Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 15:14:33 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: g's mom Subject: Sir David guards does security Message: I used to get alan alda lookalike comments. even one in 98. On worse days I have gotten billy joel and even -what about bob-. I don't see it. I know people that think they are damn ugly but actually, when they are happy, they look great. A woman thats pregnant has her best face on I think. I don't know why that is but it seems true again and again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 00:46:23 (EST)
From: aoa Email: None To: forum Subject: Sir David guards does security Message: Bill; I can see the Alan Alda comparison, but I'd have never come up with it myself. You're -- Burke! People look like *you* :) Remember Jimmy The Mind? :) I betcha Jimmy eloped off the satguru gang-plank before the ship went down. Jimmy was smart, and was always himself, I thought. In it for the good times. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 11:07:04 (EST)
From: bb Email: None To: aoa Subject: aoa Message: Hi Brilliant One. You were definately the bright star of hartford. Jimmie became a doctor and was married with his first child and at the time he was in boulder or denver. Mid eighties. You could try a search. J. DeMayo. He used to do a kick dance with me to the tune of 'in the mood' It went 'in your mind, how come your always-in your mind' Remember your alarm? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 12:52:15 (EST)
From: aoa Email: None To: forum Subject: (wrt) aoa Message: Thank you. A Doctor! Wow. I remember the satsang alarm clock. Somewhere around 1978, I took an LED-display alarm clock I'd bought at J.C. Penney, and found the wires to the transducer that makes the alarm sound -- and wired it to a 12 volt relay, instead. I mounted a jack on the clock housing, and wired the relay contacts to it. Plug in a patch cord from the clock to the subminiature jack on the tape recorder, and push 'play'. When the alarm is set and the time arrives, it will close the relay, which causes the tape recorder to play back the satsang recorded on tape. I think I gave it to Barbara. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 14:11:43 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: aoa Subject: (wrt) aoa Message: Dear AOA, Not to be sexist but you must be a man! :) 'mounted a jack onthe clock housing' indeed! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 14:53:18 (EST)
From: aoa Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Yes :) (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 17:06:45 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Roger Subject: Who I look like Message: When I taught high school all my students said I looked exactly like the mom on Beverly Hills 90210. So I watched the show, the first 'mom' I saw was Jenni Garth's mom on the show, this gorgeous blonde in a bikini. I was like 'That's me???' Then I saw the mom they were talking about, the more nurturing wholesome type brunette mom. People still tell me I look like her. Why can't I be be the mom in the bikini???? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 17:35:23 (EST)
From: L Email: None To: Helen Subject: Wholesome Is Good (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 18:38:19 (EST)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Helen Subject: hey she is cool... Message: and now she is on the cast of the soap 'Sunset beach' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 19:50:41 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: g's mom Subject: The other person I look like Message: I will have to check out that show. My brother in law also says that Frances Dormand in 'Fargo' really reminds him of me. Of course that really flattered me cause I thought she (her character) was the coolest woman. She was this down to earth pregnant policewoman who sounded like Minnesota Housewife: 'Gee detective, I have ta take issue with your detective work there' but was real smart, so of course I love being compared to her! Of course I'm sure you all have seem that movie already. I loved it when the real horrible murderer is in the back of her squad car and she says 'You oughta be ashamed of yourself, killing people on such a beautiful day' and it's 30 below with lots of snow on the ground. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 14:08:41 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: bill Subject: Sir David guards does security Message: Dear Bill, Hi dear, 'A woman thats pregnant has her best face on I think.' Even during morning sickness! I definitely felt that was my worst face! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 15:08:30 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Robyn Subject: The best face, and the party Message: Robyn, I'll bet you looked great even when you were feeling sick.... By the way, did you get any details on the Rent cast party? Just curious. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 15:18:44 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: The best face, and the party Message: Dear Joe, Jess is here just ask her. I feel like she came to the party to see me and meet my friends. :) Love you Jess. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 15:06:41 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The Role of Belief.. (semi OT) Message: Just got done reading a really good article by Herbert Benson, MD called Timeless Healing: The Role of Belief in Cancer Treatment I found this article to be extremely relevant as part of my battle with cancer and the health industry. I say battle with the health industry because the bottom line is that I care about the quality of my life and the effects of cancer treatments, real concerns that many agents of the health industry do not share. Personally I find that strange, even humorous in a black-humor kind of way. Anyway, the Benson article brings up many interesting points that I find very relevant to some of the discussion that has happened on this forum, particularly regarding the power of belief, the healing value of meditation and the 'relaxation response', and interesting discussion on the meaning and value of placebo. This article is in strong support of the view that mind strongly influences body, and vice-versa. I find it very strange and rather sad that this view seems to be foreign to most of the medical practioners that I've come across. This view is vital to how I view reality and my experience in it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:02:34 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Bobby Subject: The Role of Belief.. (semi OT) Message: It's so good to hear from you Bobby! The last time we communicated it was late at night, and I logged off, must have been right before you told me about going in for your treatment the next day. I have felt awful that I wasnt' there for you to answer, just to offer what I could. Good to hear from you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:27:15 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Selene Subject: Hi Selene! Message: Hey Selene! Nice to hear from you too. I appreciate your kind intentions. That night was a late night that I just wanted to chat with friends and would have loved to exchange a few words with you and other good folks. Sorry I missed you. This week has been hard. I was going to do radiation with a local radiation doctor. The guy is really bad though. I don't like him at all. The first time I met him he said that I 'wrote my own death certficate' and 'was going to die'. This time he said that I had to do it his way or he wouldn't treat me. He insisted that I do surgery immediately following five weeks of radiation.' His way is different than what others say. The man also said to me that the 'patient has no input into treatment.' Bullshit! He's fired! I'm back to my original chemotherapist. At least the man is kind and accepts input from me. I'm going tomorrow to see the radiologist that works with him. I'll probably start radiation and chemo next week. Yikes. Dealing with doctors who I don't see eye to eye with is very difficult and exhausting. These folks want to wield powerful treatments with enormous physical consequences. Your goddamn right I'm gonna have a say in the process. I'm a difficult patient in the sense that I expect to be treated with intelligence and basic human respect. That's good news for me and for those rare professionals who care about what the client thinks and feels about his or her own healing process. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:15:32 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Bobby, may I ask Message: Where are you; general area. If you are anywhere near Phoenix Arizona, would you let me know. I would GLADLY put you in touch with a dear friend of mine that is the head of the oncology unit at a major hospital here. He is one great guy and won't give you a run-around (he is a 'repeat' survivor, too, so he KNOWS what you are going thru). Just a thought, but it's a sincere offer. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:11:39 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Mike Subject: Bobby, may I ask Message: Thanks Mike. I appreciate the offer and would probably take you up on it if I lived closer. So far I've met ONE doctor that I trust as a healer. This is out of the 10 or 15 that I've spoken with or interacted on some level. This is not to say I don't respect the others. I do, all to varying degrees. Unfortunately the one doctor who I feel on the same page with does not come under my insurance plan and does in fact specialize in other cancer areas. He's a breast cancer surgeon who does a radio show on alternatives and has considerable perspicacity and insight. I do have some good contacts though. One guy I've invited to our local cancer support group is a pancreatic cancer survivor. He was given 3% chance of survival and is alive 5 1/2 years later working as a psychologist with a business to educate professionals the subjective, human side of going through severe illness. I live in Reading, Pennsylvania. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:33:15 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Hi Selene! Message: Oh Shit, I am so sorry you don't have a good doctor, or didn't at the time. Going back to the chemo guy sounds sane to me, based on what you said. I have done the gamit of abusive asshole doctors and found something out - there are also really good ones! I wish you all the best and send my love and, I am also going to do the unpopular - I am going to do a healing ritual for you. I hope it helps, ...... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:23:50 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Selene Subject: Hi Selene! Message: Yes I believe there are some good ones. When I was young I wanted to be a doctor and I have great respect for the profession. Unfortunately I've met too many who are assholes. I worked for ten years in state hospitals (mental hospitals) and I realize that the sad reality is that these institutions tend to attract many 'problem doctors'. I've seen a lot of abuse and have in my time, been the direct victim of medical abuse. So generally speaking, as far as doctors go, I'm respectful to a point, but not so trusting. I'm very pleased indeed to meet genuine healers. Unfortunately I've not been able to hook up with one to be my primary care giver for cancer. So I do the next thing, I communicate with all kinds of folks on all kinds of levels, I educate myself, and take care of myself as I am able (not quite so good at this last part as I should be). I think it's good to do all these things for myself anyway, but I must admit I'm a bit saddened that I'm not directly hooked up with a healer. I'm grateful for the technology that's available, but there is a difference between technology and healing. Selene, I really am most grateful for your love and healing. I'd love for you to do a healing ritual for me. It definitely helps. Thank you. Love, Bobby. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:39:37 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Hi Selene! Message: You got it! Candles, circle, protection powder - my favorite. You are in my thoughts and I'll do it as soon as I can get any fucking space ( my own little issue ) please be kind to yourself. Answer Mike, even if it's personal email I am curious where you are too, he has my address. Or I can give you mine. Ihave to log off for a while. I will try to come back. ... tonite I mean. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:51:04 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Selene Subject: Hi Selene! Message: Way cool! A personal healing ritual from Selene the moon goddess! An answer to my prayers. Yeeeeoowwwww! I'll look for manifestations of dakinis in red nighties. Just kidding............. Not! Seriously though, I do appreciate your intentions and feel honored and grateful. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 21:38:17 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Hi Selene! Message: I'll look for manifestations of dakinis in red nighties. Just kidding............. Not! whatever works. It's yours/ tho I have to admit, I don't knwo what the hell dakinis are... but I have a good imagination :} I will do it!! Promise. Just waiting for the enviromnent, something very hard for me to find. I have a lot of energy, channeled, it could really hurt or help I welcome, big time, this chance to help Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 21:56:51 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: bobby2@mindspring.com To: Selene Subject: Hi Selene! Message: Dakinis are the Buddhist 'sky dancer' goddess teachers. They've been there for me all along, just not so much in certain ways as I might have hoped at certain times :P I relate to Dakinis very strongly indeed. The visions I had of them following my near death were some of the most meaningful, trenchantly powerful experiences I've ever had. I relate to some women as Dakinis. Really. Goddess female energy. Some of the great blessings of my life. I believe you Selene about you having powerful energy available. I believe it can only help because of the place I am in. I truly am grateful. If you are interested more in what I mean by Dakinis and the experiences I have had with them, please email me and I'll be happy to say more. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 21:16:24 (EST)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Bobby Subject: Hi Bobby Message: Dear Bobby, I am so glad you fired that ass hole doctor. I had a doctor when I was first pregnant with my oldest and told him I was going to take classes in the Bradley Method of Child Birth, he said you do that but when 'Bozo' (Jessica) is ready we will just knock you out. FIRED! I took months to pick and choose a midwife after that. I am glad you have someone you like to go to and don't have to start looking now! I wonder why you didn't go through this better doctor for the radiation to start with? You know I wish you well in your journey to health. I book marked the article and will read it in a minute. Love you, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 21:45:03 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Hi Bobby Message: Robyn, your remark about Bozo that was definitely a 'splurcher', you know, the kind of laugh reaction that makes you spit out whatever it is you're trying to drink. 'Bozo' as a name for your sweet baby! Did the doctor actually say that? He's gonna just knock you out when Bozo comes through. What a hoot and don't you agree pretty bizarre in retrospect. Actually just today I called that asshole doctor I fired 'Bozo the demon'. Some of these characters can be surreal, ghastly and funny all at once! As far as the radiation guy I'm gonna see tomorrow, he appears as the lesser of two evils. I haven't had such good experiences with him or the place where he works. I didn't like the idea that he was on the phone arguing with my chemo doctor saying he 'had' to radiate bi-laterally when the chemo doctor suggested trying radiation only to one side. And there were some other points against him. But actually, I've never met him, only talked with him on the phone. Tomorrow is our first face-to-face. Pray for me. =:P I tried to get treatment through the local doctor I just fired. I had hoped he would be at least OK for treatment. His location is closer. This local doctor turned out to be such an asshole that there is no way I'll let him work on me. Good to hear from you sweetie, thanks for your caring and love. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 22:22:24 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Hi Selene! Message: Good for you Bobby!! Why is it 'difficult' to want to be in control of your life as much as possible?. I call that having self-esteem and wanting not to be a victim. I think it's great that you are running this railroad as much as possible. I know the treatments probably make you feel rotten. It's a one moment at a time type of experience I'm sure. Human contact seems critical. On a really smaller scale, when I had my colonoscopy last week the nurses were so kind to me, it makes such a difference. I'm glad you fired that doctor. He sounds like a real pompous ass, you don't need that Glad to hear from you Love Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 22:43:56 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Helen Subject: Hi Helen! Message: Hi Helen! I didn't say it was difficult to be in control of my life, I said I was a difficult patient -- that's cause I want to have at least some control and a voice in my treatment! The doctor I fired told me my voice didn't count for anything. Totally unacceptable! The 'Difficult patient' syndrome I think was first popularized by Dr. Bernie Siegal, author of 'Love, Medicine and Miracles'. Some good information in there. Another book I have on order is 'Grace and Grit' by Treya Wilber. Treya was Ken Wilber's wife who died of cancer several years ago. By all accounts I've read (on Amazon) it's an amazing book. I'm looking forward to reading it. Yes, kindness makes an enormous difference. Glad you had kind nurses to assist your process. Colonoscopy's sound pretty rough. I've encountered some kind nurses and some real jerks. I learned a lot about kindness during my years working as an aide at the state hospitals. Unfortunately, the kindness was a relatively rare commodity at these institutions. Always good to hear from you, Love, Bobby Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 12:29:18 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Hi Bobby! Message: Hi Bobby - I've been thinking about you a lot lately, and wondering how you were. I was very happy to see you posting on the forum. And I am SO glad you fired that doctor! He sounds like a real idiot. I really believe that patients have to be really careful when it comes to choosing doctors, as some of them are extremely off-the-wall when it comes to diagnosis and treatment. I have had several experiences in which the nurses in doctors' offices actually came up with the right diagnosis well before the doctor did - I think it's because they work with patients on a more practical level, and actually SEE more of what's actually going on. Also, they don't think they know everything, which helps. I could go into a lot more detail here, but suffice it to say that my family has had horrible experiences with bad diagnosis and treatment by doctors which resulted in un-needed and prolonged pain, potential death (averted by second opinion), and death (we won a malpractice suit on this one.) Anyway, I am very glad that you have a doctor that you feel you can trust. I know you're going through a lot right now, and I think your positive attitude and fighting spirit are amazing, and will serve you well. Lots of love, Katie P.S. I am out of town right now so am not picking up my e-mail - just so you know. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:06:27 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Nice to see you Bobby Message: Bobby: On this issue I fully agree with you. A positive attitude and belief that it is possible for you to pull thru is probably the most important thing. Without the 'attitude,' all the medicine in the world may not be enough. With the attitude, you've got a fighting chance (and a pretty good one, from what I understand). I know my aunt's attitude allowed her to live alot longer than was originally predicted (like 20 years longer). Keep that smile on your face, Bobby.... you will survive this! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:45:17 (EST)
From: Selene Email: None To: Mike & Bobby Subject: Nice to see you Bobby Message: Just wanted to echo Mikes comment. If you are in our area, I am here too. I don't know just wanted to say that.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:44:31 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Selene Subject: Nice to see you Bobby Message: I'd love to meet you Selene and would definitely take you up on your offer for a visit if I were closer. Thank you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:42:46 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Mike Subject: Nice to see you Bobby Message: To me this whole process is awesome. Attitude is important and for me it goes deeper than that. I have a lot of personal meaning connected with all of this. There are whole ranges of physical, emotional and spiritual experience around cancer and cancer treatment. Some results are just horrible. Some people are able to more or less sail through. Just this evening I spoke with a friend whose first husband's grandmother had radiation 50 years ago in the old country, which for her was Pakistan. You can imagine that the radiation technology in that time and place might have been a wee bit cruder than what we have today (on the other hand, who knows?). She lived well up into her 90's. I've been avoiding radiation for a number of reasons, but now for me it appears as the best course. I may just sail through! Thanks for the support Mike! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 22:33:47 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Nice to see you Bobby Message: Keep us posted Bobby. I do have a really strong feeling that you are going to pull through. I have even said that to people I email with from the forum. I am working on an infertility/woman's reproductive health study as a research assistant. You wouldn't beleive how many women were told 'there is no chance you'll ever have children' etc who went on to have 5 children! I think half the time doctors don't know what the hell they are talking about. That's why it's great that you are so informed and are running the show as much as you can. I also think it's great that you are drawing upon the spiritual energy in the universe. I will keep you in my prayers and thoughts. Love Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 00:03:15 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Helen Subject: Nice to see you Bobby Message: I think half the time doctors don't know what the hell they are talking about. My friend told me the other day that she overheard the doctor she works for in conversation with a colleague. The doctor was saying that really no one really knows much about the causes of cancer. I wish that the doctors I was seeing felt brave enough to come out and say they didn't know so much. I would respect that. So many think they are great authorities. Worse, they are closed to alternate points of view and new information. Thanks for keeping me in your prayers and thinking about me. It means a lot. On that Center for Mind / Body Medicine site (right down there in Washington DC come to think of it!) is an article by Dr. Larry Dossey on Prayer as a Healing Force. Prayer as a Healing Force Love, Bobby Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 00:19:48 (EST)
From: aoa Email: None To: forum Subject: The Role of Belief.. (semi OT) Message: I don't think meditation integrates body-mind the way, say, tai chi does. Meditation seems to be about denying the body, which is a catastrophic mistake in health care. Meditation is like, let's rid ourselves of everything and see what's left when we do. That means, ultimately, let's disinhabit the body. Samahdi. It's a mistake -- it's an appetite supressant, IMO. - And On Anand Ji Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 00:38:19 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: aoa Subject: The Role of Belief.. (semi OT) Message: I don't think that meditation is necessarily about denial or leaving the body per se. One can approach meditation in many ways. One potential is Union with states of awareness of great depth. I value this. Benson's article The Role of Belief cites studies on potential physical benefits of meditation such as lower blood pressure. The word Samadhi actually means a kind of merging concentration. Hindu teachings identify many levels of Samadhi. I think that too much appetite is not a desirable state of awareness. Our mass media culture promotes appetite but does not deal with the downside. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 11:48:48 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Health, body and mind Message: I don't think meditation is about denial of the body - at least not for me! It's very much about having a healthy mind in a healthy body. BTW, I have a motto in my life: 'To have a FAIRLY healthy mind in a FAIRLY healthy body'. Both mind and body need a little filth, in order to be sound! I wish you all the best, Bobby. A very good friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer in both her lungs 1½ year ago. The doctors could not make surgery, and some suggested she would only live two months. They suggested chemotherapy and the usual measures instead. She followed their advice, and, above all, tried to keep her spirits high. Now, she is well. There is no trace left of the cancer. I think the mind is important, for health. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 10:28:26 (EST)
From: aoa Email: None To: forum Subject: Samadhi Cowboy Message: I don't think meditation integrates body-mind the way, say, tai chi does. Meditation seems to be about denying the body, which is a catastrophic mistake in health care. Meditation is like, let's rid ourselves of everything and see what's left when we do. That means, ultimately, let's disinhabit the body. Samahdi. It's a mistake -- it's an appetite supressant, IMO. - And On Anand Ji I was taught what meditation is -- the concept behind it -- in a tradition reflected in an early (1970's era?) DLM publication on the life of Shri Hans Ji Maharaj: That same morning, the young Maharaj Ji entered 'samadhi' and in that state of trance where all body consciousness is lost, he realised the Divinity. That sounds like 'disinhabit the body' to me! More importantly, it sounded that way to me then, as a young premie -- I did my best, during each meditation session (sitting or 'formal' meditation) to lose all body consciousness. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 12:34:22 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: aoa Subject: Samadhi Cowboy Message: Yeah, it sure sounds like disinhabiting the body - but that line about the young Maharaj Ji was of course propaganda and a lot of crap! all the best to you, aoa, H. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 02:05:19 (EST)
From: aoa Email: None To: Happy Subject: Thanks, H (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 21:42:07 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Selene, Mike, Robyn, eb,. Subject: Thank you friends! Message: Katie, Helen, Happy, Aoa and other friends..... To my great surprise and delight I hooked up with a good doctor today. The man is intelligent, aware and in touch with the latest technologies. Very importantly, he understands the meaning of 'quality of life', IMO vital to those who go through powerful medical treatments. So a whole new process is starting. Unless I have other metastasies, in which case medicine says my chances are slim (but what do they know? Hah!) I'll be doing six weeks hyperfractionated radiation plus chemo. Means twice a day radiation plus probably weekly chemo. I did really miraculously with the chemo I did before but I'll probably be pretty well laid low for several weeks with this process. But God willing I'll be back! Still in this body! Thank you for your love, support and prayers. It means a lot. I'll check in from time to time as I can. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 10:35:30 (EST)
From: And On Anand Ji Email: None To: Bobby Subject: (wrt) Thank you friends! Message: [I don't get to read half the messages here.] I'm sorry for your pain, Bobby -- I also have significant health issues, so I'm less self-centered about this one -- I feel pain even as I write this. I wish you good health! And freedom from pain. -And On Anand Ji Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 11:12:02 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Thank you friends! Message: That's really good news. I hope, and actually sense (imagine?) that you are going to be a survivor. On the chance that belief works, I'm going to spend some time trying it on your behalf. Hope it helps. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 11:22:36 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Thank you friends! Message: Thank you Bobby and keep us informed. My absolute best wishes are aimed in your direction.... YOU WILL BE FINE!!!! (That's an order :-) :-). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 12:36:30 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Thank you friends! Message: The motley crew of the forum will all be sending you thoughts prayers visualizations and healings depending upon our various persuasions religiously spiritually psychologically and humanistically!!! It all helps, right???? Love Helen C Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 13:44:26 (EST)
From: Bobby Email: None To: Helen Subject: Warning....personal expression Message: The motley crew of the forum will all be sending you thoughts prayers visualizations and healings depending upon our various persuasions religiously spiritually psychologically and humanistically!!! It all helps, right???? Absolutely! I truly do appreciate it all. The other thing about seeing the doctor is that I may have other metatasies. There are spots showing up on the lungs and adrenal gland. They were on films from last year and thought to probably be benign but now the doc wants to do another CAT scan and an MRI to rule out metastasies. If I do have metastasies, medicine gives me slim chance and I'll be getting lesser treatment. So we are going for cure if the tumors are only in head and neck. I'm doing a lot of personal processing. Emotional, mental, spiritual. My experiences are sometimes beautiful, sometimes distressing, sometimes complex, sometimes simple. I may die fairly young. I am 48. This whole experience with the cancer is given to me, just like the series of events that led to my near-death experience in 1969. My near-death has held profound personal meaning and for me in fact is visionary. I am a survivor. I've survived small stints in jails and a six-month stay in the back wards of a mental hospital. I survived a three story fall breaking every bone in my skull. I survived many truly wild and crazy escapades and adventures. There's always been something compelling for me about the wildness. I think there are others here who understand. I want to live but I ain't gonna force it. The experience I am going through now brings up the deeper meanings of everything. I am not afraid of death and I confess there is a part of me that is excited about death. I believe I know what it is like cause I believe I lived through and am aware of the experiences leading to death. I do want to live and I am going to work and act to enable my ability to continue in this body. I have a lot to accomplish in this life. In recent years I have connected and started to manifest long term processes that concern the work that is my 'bliss' in the Joseph Campbell sense. (see Mickey the Pharasee's post). It's interesting how all these obstacles have come up in recent years when I thought things were finally coming together. I have two kids - 20 and 17. I sure love them and want to be there for them as I can. My death would be hard. I sure don't want to hurt my parents. I sure have put them through a lot in the past. My younger brother died five years ago. My parents only had two kids. My death would be very hard for them. I have some wonderful friends who I don't want to leave. I want to say more but don't know if this is the right place to say it. I'm someone who needs to express myself, including the personal stuff. I take risks by posting here. I think there are some who like my posts and others who don't. I'm not here to offend anyone. At this time, today as I write this, this is the forum with the juice for me. Sometimes I think it's a waste for me to post here. But then there are people and posts that really touch me. There are lots of beautiful folks around and some folks that are very difficult for me. I sure don't see eye-to-eye with all, but I honestly try to learn from all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 22:50:45 (EST)
From: Mary M Email: mem_mcgraw@msn.com To: Bobby Subject: Warning....personal expression Message: >I want to say more but don't know if this is the right place to >say it. I'm someone who needs to express myself, including the >personal stuff. I take risks by posting here. I think there are >some who like my posts and others who don't. I'm not here to >offend anyone. Bobby - What a post. I think I speak for all of us in saying, 'You are always welcome here'. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 10:54:46 (EST)
From: Helen Email: None To: Mary M Subject: Warning....personal expression Message: Bobby, I agree with Mary M, and I am printing out your post as it has brought tears to my eyes, I want to read it whenever I am feeling sorry for myself due to some minor setback in my life. I am going to send you an email about some of the more personal stuff Love Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 11:12:54 (EST)
From: Katie Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Warning....personal expression Message: Hi Bobby - just wanted to tell you that I thought your post was great. Personal posts like yours are very inspiring, and are some of the best posts on the forum, IMHO. Keep on, Bobby. Love to you, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 01:41:23 (EST)
From: Miloochie Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Warning....personal expression Message: Bobby, I think what you write is a 'destiny.' I think you know what the words are and what the destiny is. I think it's shining on and warming even those who you might think aren't diggin' it. Real love is always appreciated. It's like clean water. What's not to like? 'Strong visions for your destiny, Bobby. Miloochie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 04:41:46 (EST)
From: Bob Email: None To: Bobby Subject: Thank you friends! Message: Good luck Bobby. I hope your treatments are completely successful and I'll raise a glass to you tonight. To your health! Bob (!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 14:47:37 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Moldy Oldy books Message: Hi everybody: Thought I would start a thread on old books and what I think of them. Care to take a trip thru the cobwebs? Many books have been written that seem to describe some ineffible experience to which we supposedly have a birthright (to quote a (in)famous poster on this forum). There are some problems with the suppositions concerning these books, however. For example: the bible (no offense MP) is oft-times presumed to be true because it is SO long , SO coherent, SO old and appears to have some actual factual information (proven by archaeologists, etc). Well, guess what, there are many books that are long, coherent, old and have some factual info sprinkled into the mix. The Illiad and the Odyssey come to mind, as do the Urantia book and the Book of Mormon. The latter two purport to be of divine origin (aren’t particularly old) and yet each was very likely written by a SINGLE HUMAN MIND that hadn’t experienced ANYTHING that was written about in the respective tome. To say it is impossible to write a book that appears to be inspired without actually being inspired (read that: experiencing something) is a total falsehood. Does the word “hoodwink” for personal aggrandizement mean anything to anyone? How about great writers of complex and entertaining fiction? Nah, couldn’t be…. There can’t possibly be any really good fiction writers, can there? Imagination…. What’s that? Gimme a break! Many books have been written, for example, on the subject of diets. The problem? Most are written by people that know absolutely nothing about the subject (really) and yet they come off as absolute experts in the field and convince MANY people of that simple lie. The fact that the so-called diet “feels” right or seems (intuitively) to make sense doesn’t make it so. Case in point: the incredibly damaging grapefruit diet. Speak with ANY doctor and they ALL agree to the harm that this diet can do. Yet, there are those that are convinced that it’s the way to go; obviously from intuition, since the medical facts contraindicate this diet to the “max.” If you didn’t know better, a Mickey Spillane murder mystery or a Zane Grey western novel could easily be confused with the truth. You see, nowadays authors are supposed to label their books as fiction or non-fiction; something the “ancients” weren’t expected or required to do. Remember, in some of the oldest Hindu books, the entire universe rides on the back of a turtle….. Now how many of you REALLY believe this? Yet, there it is…. Written in a “divinely inspired” manual that is some of the oldest writing known to man. So, if the universe isn’t riding on the back of a turtle, cobras didn't actually protect krishna, hanuman wasn’t really a monkey-king in ancient india and ganesha really didn’t exist, then how much more of these supposedly “inspired” manuals-for-living is crap? In this regard, I equate “inspiration” with “imagination.” Really good imagination, but imagination nonetheless. Intuition and feeling alone cannot be used as accurate measuring sticks for anything. Witness unfounded fear (as we all have at one time or another) to know what I mean. Read a good Stephen King novel and tell me how you FEEL! Did you feel it as if it were real? Be honest, did you? Of course, when your MIND determined that it was fiction reality would come back, but just feeling your way around one of his novels would make you think it was real. He’s a very good writer….. So were those that wrote the so-called ancient holy texts and stories (IMHO). Ancient books are nothing more than “old,” until proven otherwise. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:17:07 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Mike Subject: Moldy Oldy books Message: 'the bible (no offense MP [none taken!] ) is oft-times presumed to be true because it is SO long , SO coherent, SO old and appears to have some actual factual information (proven by archaeologists, etc).' As one who spends a lot of time reading and studying the Bible, I would never consider it particularly coherent, and much of the supposed historic information is inaccurate. I agree, just because a book is old does not make it true. The Bible is the major scripture of two religious groups and was a major influence upon Western civilization, but if one goes to the Hebrew and Christian scriptures looking for accurate historical and scientific information, they will be very disappointed. Scriptures are important for passing on the myths of a culture and for giving comfort and, unfortunately, for re-inforcing the hierarchy of a culture. I have to write a sermon using the scriptures every week, and it can be a challenge to interpret things and avoid the dumb stuff. When I come across dumb stuff, I challenge it or explain the source of such beliefs if I am able. I find lessons in the Bible that are useful in helping one in one's interactions with people, and how to treat people, but there is also a lot of horrible stuff; that is where people get hateful messages from scripture. I don't necessarily subscribe to the 'divinely inspired' school of Biblical scholarship. I think one should use one's brain when reading anything. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:45:30 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Moldy Oldy books Message: Thanks Mickey.... you are truely one in a million! :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 22:16:45 (EST)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Moldy Oldy books Message: I can't figure it, MP. You're one of the more down to earth practical people on this forum yet you have such a reverence for scripture. I'm obviously missing something. You remind me of my aunt. Nobody's ever going to catch her snoozing in an intellectual debate but she's off to mass and communion every Sunday without fail (she's a good catholic girl). I guess she finds a necessary comfort in her faith that fulfills a need she'd otherwise find wanting. I suppose that's the case with all believers. I'm certain you wouldn't say emphatically that God exists but believing he does is necessary for peace of mind's sake. Everybody's gotta have something I guess. I used to believe in God because of some mystical experiences I had, but since I've done some reading on evolution and neuroscience, I find myself leaning towards more secular explanations for things. Atheism fits me pretty comfortably, actually (at least for today. I don't know how I'm going to feel about it down the road to be honest with you). I don't think its for everybody though. I think most people need a deity to believe in. Whether there is one or not, I suspect faith in one is an imperative for most. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 22:49:12 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Moldy Oldy books Message: Jerry, I'm an Episcopal priest; of course I have reverence for scriptures. And believe me, I have to be at Mass every Sunday because I'm the one saying it! And since I live in a seminary community, I tend to be at Mass four or five times a week. I read books on science too, although I will admit that I am not up on my Dawkins; right now I really don't read much that isn't in my area of research. I'm writing my thesis so I don't have a lot of outside reading at the moment. I went through a period where I was an atheist, but I had some experiences which I attributed to God, and next thing I knew, I was a theist again. I'm a priest because it was the only thing I could do; I have had several careers and none of them brought me any joy (well, I liked playing in a band but couldn't make a living at it). I knew I was supposed to be a priest when I was 14, but I had other things to do, like drop acid and waste several years of my life in a stupid cult. Years later, when I realized once again that I was supposed to be a priest, everything worked out just right. It could be coincidence, but as Joseph Campbell said, 'Follow your Bliss.' I have, and now I am very happy. Unlike being a premie, being a Christian does not require that I never leave room for doubt in my mind or that I leave my brain at the door; in my church debate and questioning is encouraged. I have no problem with science, and I even respect atheists, but I do not have respect for those who would just snipe and call names, as our M defenders do. Here endeth the rant. PS This is totally off topic: has anyone heard the new XTC CD yet? I really like it! And Lauryn Hill, too (sorry, ham!). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 14:44:27 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Did You Ever Hear This? Message: I never heard that Maharaji suspected Mata Ji of poisoning Shri Hans. Anybody hear that before?????? Geez....no wonder M hated her! Also, this article has confirmation that M earned upwards of $200,000 in donations when he gave darshan. I recommend this information be added to the history section of the site. Also there is confirmation that 60% of the donations to DLM actually went to fund Maharaji's lavish lifestyle. I think we should put that on the permanent website as well. I've put in bold some of the more interesting stuff. The Washington Post, February 14, 1982: ...The Perfect Master... He was born near Hardwar, India, as Prem Pal Singh Rahwat(sic?), the son of Shri Hans Ji Maharaj Ji, the founder of the worldwide Divine Light Mission. After his father's death in 1966, little Prem Pal assumed the spiritual leadership of the mission and its million members. His new name was Balyogeshwar Param Hans Sant Ji Maharaj, the King of Kings. He was 8 years old. His mother ran the mission while Maharaj Ji attended Catholic boarding school during the week and 'played God on weekends,' according to the former president of the mission, Robert Mishler. Mishler and others also alleged that Maharaj Ji had suspected his mother of poisoning his father. (!!!!!!!) For whatever reason, the young guru was eager to escape his mother's yoke, and he ventured to America in 1971, a 13-year-old 'Perfect Master' accompanied by a guardian. He settled in Colorado where the Divine Light Mission in the United States took root. His message in the beginning was that peace in the world began with the inner peace people might achieve acquiring 'Knowledge,' the experience of one's inner self and harmony with the ultimate which is inside of all of us' as Maharaj Ji put it in an interview in 1979. His followers are known as 'premies' -- Hindu slang for 'lover of God.' The Divine Light Mission grew rapidly, by 1973 claiming 40,000 followers in more than 100 cities and a budget in excess of $3 million a year. Followers often lived together in ashrams, where premies took vows of poverty and chastity. (Ashram applications ask for the location of treasury and security certificates, trust funds, bank accounts and insurance policies.) Maharaj Ji held festivals around the country and in various foreign countries, and premies with little more than air fare in their bank accounts would travel great distances to hear him speak. Sometimes he would give darshan, the blessing Hindus believe comes from the great, and allow premies to file past, kiss his feet and make a donation for the privilege. In two days at one festival darshan earned the guru $200,000 according to a follower who used to work in the mission's legal department.. Money is vital to the Divine Light Mission. Maharaj Ji's prodigally materialistic lifestyle is a breathtaking contrast to the near-poverty of his followers. Through holding companies he today owns mansions in Malibu, London and Miami and in other parts of the world. He wears $1,000 suits. At his disposal is a fleet of more than 30 Rolls-Royces, Masaratis, Lamborghinis, and other cars. He owns state-of-the-art video equipment. He owns scores of jeweled watches. His 707 plane was refurbished with gold-plated seat belts, and, as a security measure, custom-made nuts and bolts that can only be worked on with a special set of tools. At one time, a former bookkeeper testified that 60 percent of the Divine Light Mission's total income was allotted to the support of the guru's lifestyle. In April, 1975, none other than his mother, Shri Mata Ji, denounced the guru as a 'playboy' who had adopted a 'despicable nonspiritual way of life.' The mission has grown primarily by word of mouth. Friends bring friends to introductory satsang, or spiritual discourse. Talk turns to the purpose and perplexity of life. The guru, the recruits are told, has a priceless gift. Maharaj Ji himself mentioned it last November at the Shoreham Hotel in Washington. 'I know how to make people happy,' he said..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 15:48:45 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: JW Subject: TO BRIAN Message: Brian, can we reprint the above article somewhere on the site, or at least the highlighted sections? They are documentation of some of the things that have been talked about in the history section and elsewhere. It looks like the reporter did some good interviews and it's valuable information. Thanks. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:55:27 (EST)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: JW Subject: The poisoning Message: I have seen the articles that you've been posting, and I'm planning to keep copies to explore and research further (some of them are reporter hearsay and not documented at all). This latest one is interesting though. As for the rumor about Mata Ji, I had heard that before from a close friend of Bob Mishler that I contacted last year. Bob evidently told him after hearing it from Maharaji during the time that Bob was pretty much serving a father/confessor/counselor in Maharaji's life prior to the split and marriage period. It wasn't a 'fact' so much as a suspicion on MJ's part at the time. There is obviously no way to confirm the suspicion or that the conversation ever took place, so I just tabled the information for the time being. MJ would have had to have heard it from someone else anyway - either a mahatma or an older brother. Satpal didn't seem to feel threatened by his mother, and since he was the oldest and in the best position to have been any credible family source of the rumor, I tend to believe that the idea would have to have been planted by a mahatma. And I would have to suspect it was one of the mahatmas that opposed Satpal as Satguru. Satpal (BBJ) was Mata Ji's first choice to replace Hans, and it was only after MJ was seated on the throne that she accepted MJ being there. (He had already proclaimed himself as Satguru at that time, and she emerged from a haggling session with mahatmas in another room to find him on the throne and already being worshipped by Hans' devotees. She was pretty much stuck with it then.) This same source told me that the picture of MJ on the throne announcing himself as Satguru was ACTUALLY taken from a film of the event that was made by a devotee. In the film, Mata Ji is seen emerging from the backstage haggling over who gets to take over, and her on-camera shock at realizing that MJ's already sitting there is captured. Don't know who has the film now, but I would love to see it. What role MJ's supposed suspicions of her played in his refusal to accompany her to India as she ordered, I couldn't say. But he was using Bob at that time as a father figure, and so I personally tend to believe that the conversation actually took place. I just can't document it is all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 00:13:01 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Brian Subject: The poisoning Message: But he was using Bob at that time as a father figure, and so I personally tend to believe that the conversation actually took place. I just can't document it is all. Right, Brian and thanks for the info. It was something I had never heard before, or if I did I forgot it. I don't think the issue of whether Mata Ji did something like that is so important, it's more that M suspected it, for whatever reason. And we can't say what he felt, but the fact that Mishler, and others, said this to the Washington Post is worth noting. But more, I think the fact that the Post interviewed former IHQ insiders who reported the darshan income and the percentage of DLM money that went to Maharaji himself is also worth noting. I think I know exactly who the 'legal department premie' was, there is another article about her down below. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:15:10 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: JW Subject: Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! Message: I never heard that Maharaji suspected Mata Ji of poisoning Shri Hans. Anybody hear that before?????? Geez....no wonder M hated her! Also, this article has confirmation that M earned upwards of $200,000 in donations when he gave darshan. That you would so readily accept as fact what the media feeds you belies the incredible dishonesty and hypocrasy you continue to exhibit. Of course, I suspect you do filter out some media messages, based probably upon what you want to believe. I mean you just CAN'T believe EVERYTHING they tell you... surely (but then again, maybe you're that stupid). So I guess you are either one of the stupidest people on earth or one of the most dishonest... or perhaps a little of both. Whatever the case... Congratulations! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:23:06 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Nil Subject: Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! Message: Gee Nil, your clear thinking and well reasoned points exhibited throughout the Forum have convinced me. You are really full of that experience, and are an example of what Knowledge can do for everyone; I want to be like you. Come on, everybody; it's time we returned to the Lotus Feet!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:35:30 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! Message: Gee Nil, your clear thinking and well reasoned points exhibited throughout the Forum have convinced me. You are really full of that experience, and are an example of what Knowledge can do for everyone; I want to be like you. Gee Mick, if I wanted to expose my well-seasoned wisdom and serenity I could surely do so, but I get more pleasure out of telling people like you exactly what I think of them. Call me unenlightened if you must... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:20:13 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Nil Subject: Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! Message: 'Gee Mick, if I wanted to expose my well-seasoned wisdom and serenity I could surely do so, but I get more pleasure out of telling people like you exactly what I think of them.' Well, gee Nil, don't hold back; I wouldn't want you to get indigestion! 'Call me unenlightened if you must...' I don't think I've called you anything this week. You do seem to be a little irritable, though. Perhaps a change of diet... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 21:09:06 (EST)
From: cp Email: None To: Brian Subject: Let me swap Nil for a ...... Message: Maytag Front Loader Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 21:14:47 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: cp Subject: Let me swap cp for...... Message: ...a comedian. Maytag Front Loader Just between you and me cp... what the hell are talking about? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:27:30 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Nil Subject: Try Something Else, Nil Message: Nil, what exactly do you think is innacurate? Tell us specifically, Nil. Regarding the $200,000 Maharaji got in darshan lines, I personally heard that when I was at IHQ in Miami, from Dennis Marciniak, the president of DLM. This article is just confirmation, actual testimony from someone who worked in the legal department at DLM who said the same thing. Got any evidence to the contrary? Does Big M care to deny it? I don't think so. Regarding the Mata Ji and Shri Hans thing, that's the first time I ever heard that. I didn't say I accepted it as truth. I do accept that 'Bob Mishler and others' reported that to the Washington Post. I do accept that. By the way, Nil, your infantile name-calling and outbursts are getting really old. Try growing up a little and discuss things like an adult. With a little practice I'm sure you can do it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:17:28 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: JW Subject: Spin on Doctor No Message: By the way, Nil, your infantile name-calling and outbursts are getting really old. Try growing up a little and discuss things like an adult. I take it by your rather pompous outburst that you will no longer engage in such 'infantile name-calling' as well. You are SUCH a hypocrite Joe. The agravating thing about you is you think you're not. Now on the topic of darshan lines. If they were such a haul for Maharaji, and if his primary purpose for darshan was to rake in the dough, why do you think he stopped doing it? I mean, if money were indeed his motive, he'd be a fool to give up such a cash cow. Maybe you could search through your newspaper articles to see if the press gave us some 'actual testimonies' to back up your answer. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:32:17 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Nil Subject: He Didn't Stop Message: Gee, Nil, you are actually discussing something almost like an adult. Good for you. No infantile name calling in that last post. That's an improvement. What makes you think he gave it up? Maharaji just gave darshan in Amaroo at the end of 1997 to mostly Westerners, thousands of them, and I am told he regularly gives darshan in other countries like India, etc. (J-M has confirmed this.) So he continues the practice. As for why he hasn't done it in the States for awhile, well, I don't know, maybe you should ask him, although I doubt you will get an answer since he just ignores most questions. My speculation is that it it isn't socially acceptable anymore in the West to have thousands line up and kiss your feet. It makes you look like a raving cult leader, someone who thinks he's god, or a megalomaniac. It would make it really difficult to get recruits in the USA (not that he has much success anyway) and it makes him look like the cult leader that he is trying not to look like anymore. I think darshan was a cash cow,certainly it was, but continuing it in the West might make him lose his entire trip, and he doesn't want that. So he has to raise money in other ways, like selling thousands of videos, having trinket bazaars at programs, and being the 'beneficial owner' of Amtext, to name just a few. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:53:51 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: JW Subject: Sure he did. Message: He gave it up from 1985~ish to 1997. Just think of how much he could have raked in during that period, if money was indeed his motive. Maybe, just maybe, darshan is about something other than money that your reporter didn't pick up on, and his article was really meant to do what all media articles are supposed to do, i.e., hit as many of the public's hot-buttons as possible, to sell as many papers as possible, to get the highest rate from advertisers as possible. Now Joe... isn't that a distinct possiblity? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:04:30 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Nil Subject: What Is It Meant To Do? Message: Nil, enlighten us. What is darshan about? What is it meant to do? And please explain when you do, what, in your answer, would not be a 'hot button' for a newspaper article. Can't wait to hear what you have to say. I thought the article did a good job explaining what knowledge is about, or at least what M says it's about. They quoted Maharaji, accurately I thought. As for ending darshan for 10 years, I don't know, but I told you what I thought the reasons were. They make complete sense to me. So, you tell me, why did he stop, oh premie ji? And why has he starting it up again? I'm sure it's for some other reason than he wants money, but what is it? Also, Nil, you once again state nothing in the article that was innacurate. I'm very critical of what I read in the press. But most things I read in the press I don't have personal experience with, and on this subject I do. So that is very different, and, as I said, it confirms things I know from other sources, within the premie world. By the way Nil, did I ever know you in TRW? Somehow you sound familiar to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:34:52 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: JW Subject: What Is It Meant To Do? Message: Darshan is about having a moment with your master to express whatever you want to express. Whenever he does it, it is a sweet opportunity for both student and master... which probably explains why he started it up again in the west (he never stopped in India). As for what's inaccurate about the article... couldn't tell you. I wasn't there. But let's take a hypothetical case. 'An official source close to the First Lady says since the newpaper article came out detailing her alleged affair, she has shown signs of stress and fatigue.' All fact perhaps, meant to imply there's a 'real' story going on. It doesn't however say she contracted a cold on the day it came out and that's the real reason she appears stressed because she knows the story is bunk and couldn't stand the light of day. No lies, just mistaken inuendo... sound familiar. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:44:00 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Nil Subject: What Is It Meant To Do? Message: Darshan is about having a moment with your master to express whatever you want to express. Whenever he does it, it is a sweet opportunity for both student and master... which probably explains why he started it up again in the west (he never stopped in India). That was my information that it never stopped in India, but your answer still makes no sense. Why isn't it a 'sweet opportunity' in the West from 1986-1997? Why did it just become a 'sweet opportunity' again in 1997? Your answer doesn't explain why he stopped if it's such a nice thing. By the way, I think the Post would consider your answer a 'hot button' especially because the vast majority of premies use the opportunity to kiss his feet. Which, in my current view, I wrench at thinking about the dozens of time I kissed those feet. Yecch! As for what's inaccurate about the article... couldn't tell you. I wasn't there. Thank you. I and others were there, however. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:18:21 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: JW Subject: What Is It Meant To Do? Message: Why isn't it a 'sweet opportunity' in the West from 1986-1997? Why did it just become a 'sweet opportunity' again in 1997? See my response to Mike. Thank you. I and others were there, however. So you say you were. Does that mean you know how the contributions were spent? You still haven't explained why if darshan was such a money maker he would have, okay... put it on pause. Let's see... he could have hauled in (12 years X 200K X say 10 events/year) $25M by my calculations. So let's hear it Joe. Give me a real good explanation why someone who is in it for the money walks away from such a sure thing. This should be good... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:59:31 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Nil Subject: Come On Nil Message: You still haven't explained why if darshan was such a money maker he would have, okay... put it on pause. Nil, I did explain it. See my post above. He stopped it because it made him look like a megalomaniac cult leader who thinks he's god and it wasn't in line with his new 'meditation teacher' image, and if he kept it up he risked his entire meal ticket. That's why. So, he relies on selling thousands of videos, trinkets at the bazaar at programs, income from Amtext, etc. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 01:35:40 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: Nil Subject: Welcome Nil(slightly ot) Message: Nil, Nice to see you back taking a more or less significant part in our forum. It's especially encouraging to see how when I'm not around, you really can behave at least a little more like a 'mentsch' That's why I'm not going to stick around here for long, I really don't want to harm the chemistry, but I do have a teency weency little question I wanted to ask you...I'm sure the others won't mind, and I also felt that you, ya know, being the big hearted guy that you are...well you'd finally give me a break and answer the question that everybody would love to have answered about Amtext. Now you ducked this one before on me Nil, but it really doesn't matter... I'm a patient guy...and I know that you have the answer. So,here's your opportunity to work your way into everyone's hearts here, Nil, at least mine. Can you please answer the following question: What is the relationship between M and Amtext? Really, there are people who want to know. Now we know Nil that you're a heavy hitting, maven of a PAMer, you could probably deliver some useful information to us if you wanted to. How about it, pal? Hm? All the best, Nim:) PS. Nil, if you don't want me coming back because its too stressful for you, please let us know... I personally won't be offended. I just want to make things ok for you here, so you'll feel comfortable to talk to everybody. You can even address your Amtext answer to JW... I won't be offended. Just want you to be happy. Nim:):) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 19:01:08 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: JW Subject: You Come On Message: Maybe your fellow conspiracy theorists love to gobble up this kind of crap, but please... give the rest of us a break!! You seem to be modifying your spin to suit whatever flavor of bullshit you're trying to peddle. First you portray him as being in it for the money. Then you say this erstwhile money-grabber would walk away from an easy $20+ million because he's really in it for the megalomania. (That's a lot of cake to walk away from JW!) And then you tell us this megalomaniac only wants to be viewed as a mere meditation teacher... hey, I thought he wanted to be god! Joe, your pathetic yarn is not at all consistent or believable, save only to half-brained morons with such chips on their shoulders they can't see past their own petty bias. For fuck sake, GIVE US A LITTLE MORE CREDIT!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 19:13:10 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: You missed the point, Nil Message: Nil: You say that JW's making up this story. M, himself, is the one that has changed his story.... One year he's the lord of the universe (amply proven by existing old DLM rags and other official sources) then M, himself, says that he is just a humble meditation teacher. Now, who is it that is changing their story? JW is reporting the changes in story/motive! He is NOT changing the story (M's the one that has done that). How long did you say that you've been a premie? I ask because it DOES have alot to do with what you know about the 'old' times and new, improved K-lite (as we call it) now. Seriously, read the posts again (including those in the archives). You will see who is changing their story. BTW, it is possible that M has two (or more) motives for what he does. I've seen people (captains of industry, etc) give up LOTS of money to service their megalomaniacal needs. This is not at all unusual in the world of the 'rich and famous.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 19:33:10 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Mike Subject: Thanks, Mike Message: You said it better than I did. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 20:18:22 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Mike Subject: Maybe not Message: Mike, my point has nothing to do with JW changing a story. If you read my 'Ah forget it' post to JW, I state my position clearly. I've seen people (captains of industry, etc) give up LOTS of money to service their megalomaniacal needs. Okay... how about some examples? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 11:18:33 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: Maybe not Message: Does the name Rockefeller mean anything to you? To become a political candidate or office holder, you must divest yourself of anything that could be considered a conflict of interest. Rockefeller gave up a number of VERY lucrative government contracts so that he could serve as vice-pres. He LOST MILLIONS on that deal (a vice-pres salary is nowhere near what rockefeller spent on his mansion petunias in any given year.... so it really was a net LOSS). If you think that he wasn't megalomanical, you really have your head buried in the sand. He's only ONE example; in the political arena alone there are hundreds, if not thousands total. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 15:02:06 (EST)
From: Marshall Email: None To: Mike Subject: Maybe not Message: Hey Mike, Let's not leave out Ross Perot. I doubt anyone in history has wasted more money on their megalomania than this guy. Of course Nil will not know who Ross is since he despises everything American and he's never even heard of Jerry Falwell(despite all the threads on him here!) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 19:31:02 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Nil Subject: You Sound Stupid Message: I'd like to give you credit, Nil, but your comments are stupid. Nil, all you do is completely mistate what I said and then attack something I didn't say. That's really stupid. It makes you look really dishonest, something you are accusing me of. First you portray him as being in it for the money. No, I didn't. I said money was part of it, but clearly said he also did it to reinforce his ego. Re-read my posts. Then you say this erstwhile money-grabber would walk away from an easy $20+ million because he's really in it for the megalomania. No, you are wrong again. I said he stopped because when he gave darshan in the west it reinforced the view of him as a raving megalomaniac cult leader who thinks he's god. And since if he continued, he might lost his entire trip, he quit it, at least for awhile. I walked away form nothing and have been saying this consistently, you just are too stupid to read it. Your supposed contradictions are illusory. And then you tell us this megalomaniac only wants to be viewed as a mere meditation teacher... Stupid statement again, Nill and equally wrong. HE is presenting himself as a meditation teacher these days. He used to portray himself as god, but doesn't anymore. As to why he does that, I don't know, ask him. I think he does it because he can't get away with it in the west anymore and would have no chance of attracting even the pitiful numbers of new people he does in the West. hey, I thought he wanted to be god! I think he only wanted to be god until 1985 when it was no longer profitable and so he stopped. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 20:10:42 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: JW Subject: Ah forget it!! Message: You've got an explanation for everything JW. First of all, if you want to call my comments stupid, I'd like to call yours infantile and evasive -- verging on imbecilic. Have you not on at least 100 occasions painted Maharaji as having money as ONE of his primary motives?? Would you deny that Joe??? My point is that the profile you've described is SO unbelievable that only an idiot would buy it. It just doesn't fit that someone who is into ammassing a fortune would walk away from $20M. It just doesn't make sense that a megalomaniac that believes he's god would want all of a sudden to be called a meditation teacher. Truth is Joe you don't have a fucking clue what Maharaji is about... REALLY!!! And it makes you squirm like hell to think for a second that you don't have it all figured out. THAT JOE IS THE HEIGHT OF DISHONESTY!!! Ciao. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 20:19:58 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Nil Subject: Yeah, forget it!! Message: My point is that the profile you've described is SO unbelievable that only an idiot would buy it. It just doesn't fit that someone who is into ammassing a fortune would walk away from $20M. Let me say this again, Nil. Read it very, very slowly and try to comprehend it. I suggeseted that he stopped giving darshan in the west because it threatened him LOSING HIS ENTIRE TRIP, losing everything. He would be labeled a raving cult leader, and would lose his ability to attract followers. So he would lose a lot more than what he lost from not giving darshan. That makes perfect sense, whether you agree with it or not. Yes, he is into this trip for the money, and that's his prioity. And you can tell that because he has been wildly successful in amassing wealth, but he has done a very rotten job of spreading knowledge to the world, especially to the US and North America, where he has been an utter failure. Indeed, he loses way more devotees than he initiates. And speaking of someone who doesn't have a clue about Maharaji, I would say the same thing about you. You seem to know a lot less than I do, and you're a premie. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 03:49:59 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JW Subject: He NEVER stopped darshan Message: Since the beginning of the 80s, I've been to the Indian programs almost every year, twice a year in some instances (last one in 96). I still own my old passports with the Indian visas. There has been darshan almost everytime there, and Holi when the weather was not too cold. The first darshan there in 80 happened in front of the gate of the residence, in the middle of a dust storm. Some premies brought an armchair, m sat there, and the premies lined up to kiss his feet. I did. Then it became more elaborated again, with huge queues, m hidden in a tent, music, stage, donation boxes, electronic metal/weapon detectors (when you enter the tent), etc. Except for the 1st event in 1980 at the Delhi ashram when only some lucky dozens of westerners were allowed (I was one of them), hundreds, and now thousands of westerner followers have been there at least one time, and got darshan there. Hundreds of western premies go there at least once a year. I know many of them. France only has about 100 of them, I'd say they are the core of m's organization. Let's say about 10% of the western premies go there every year and get darshan. And the BM now usually has 2 programs a year there. One in November/december for 'Hans Jayanti', and one in April for 'Holi'. He also now has a program in Nepal almost every year (with darshan), and he owns a 'knowledge center' there. And this is for India only. He never stopped darshan in Mauritius, Ivory Coast, Malaysia, and very likely a few other countries. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 06:27:55 (EST)
From: KK Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: He NEVER stopped darshan Message: It was my direct and personal experience at the 'front line', i.e. physically supervising and counting the Darshan money that the communities of Indian devotees (locally and internationally) were extremely forthcoming in financial terms. For example, I was in India in 1980 and onwards regularly until 1986 in the inner circle performing this very clandestine function. I have direct knowledge of these matters archived over a 8 year period covering international programs. It was always discussed in terms of its financial benefits. A known money spinner. MJ is not good with money, BTW. He has very little personal financial acumen. Relies heavily on advice. Wouldn't have a clue how much money he has. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 10:06:01 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: KK Subject: Nil, Read KK's Post Message: Does this help clarify the monetary purposes of darshan, Nil? By the way, thanks KK, nice to hear from you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 13:19:49 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: KK Subject: He NEVER stopped darshan Message: KK: Although I never saw what happened to the money, I did (with my own eyes) once see what happened to the flowers and other non-pecuniary 'offerings': Straight into a trash bin..... You can imagine how I felt after seeing that! Another, in a long stream of 'drip, drip, drips.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 19:39:28 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: KK Subject: He did in... Message: ...the richest countries in the world, which caused him to lose $20+M. Still a pretty dumb thing to do for such an alleged 'cunning money-grabber'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 20:03:50 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: On the face of it Message: Nil: You would appear to have a valid point. Why cut off such a lucrative activity? Like I said on a previous post, read what JW said. He HAD to quit or he would lose it ALL! Losing $20 million is alot better than losing EVERYTHING he has. Have you ever heard of cut-your-losses? Companies do it all of the time, when the profit margin isn't there or if a customer 'costs too much' to support. Yes, they will cut a multi-million dollar customer off at the knees if it costs too much to keep them as a customer. The point? M was gathering some 'new' folks that took exception with 'darshan' and the whole indian trip. In fact, he was losing ground for a while. So, he cuts off darshan (and the potential profits) so that he can gather more to the fold (and thus, more profits). The upside? The he doesn't have to have the newbies slobbering all over his feet all of the time and they'll pay (read that: doante) anyway. I don't really think he lost a thing when that decision was made (in the long run). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 20:24:46 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Mike Subject: On the face of it Message: You would appear to have a valid point. Why cut off such a lucrative activity? Like I said on a previous post, read what JW said. He HAD to quit or he would lose it ALL! First, thank you for recognizing my valid point. I disagree with you that he was in any position whatsoever to 'lose it all'. The ashrams were happening, a nice religion was formed. In reality he LOST people because of the changes he made around that time. Give me some basis for your postulation that this was his ONLY alternative. BTW 24 years. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 02:52:40 (EST)
From: Marshall Email: None To: Nil Subject: Hot air Message: You are not fooling anybody(with an IQ. above 90 at least) with your ridiculous obfuscation. You are indignant about something that doesn't exist. You are just creating hot air. Anyone who sees any logic in the picture your attempting to paint is as brain dead as you are. Here it is one more time. The times were changing. The 70's were over. There was less tolerance for things like toe kissing gooroo worshipers. BM took the safest route and cleaned up his act to adapt to the times. It worked. He's richer than ever. He didnt just 'give up 20-25 million dollars' as you are claiming. Your position that BM isn't 'in it for the money' doesn't jibe with reality, Nil. Sorry. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 11:13:06 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Marshall Subject: You said it better than I Message: Marshall: Thanks, that was about as clear as it gets. Nil seems to forget that in the late 70's and early 80's, the 'me' generation was coming of age. Witness the upsurge in the Yuppies as evidence of this. Could you imagine a yuppie doing darshan? Kissing 'your' (m's) feet would never have fit into that equation. The guru-worship days were over and M saw it as a sign for change. It couldn't be simpler than that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 15:10:49 (EST)
From: Marshall Email: None To: Mike Subject: Not Really Message: Thanks for the compliment Mike, but I thought you and JW explained it just fine(several times each!) Nil is just trying to create an argument out of nothing to support his classic revisionist asshole premie C.R.A.P. Any non brainwashed person can see through Nils(and BM's) smoke and mirrors! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 16:14:52 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Marshall Subject: Hot air Message: I'm not trying to fool anyone. What I am doing is pointing out how incongruent a profile you guys paint of Maharaji. A 'money hungry fraud' who gives up two of his major financial conerstones (i.e., darshan and ashrams) at a time when money is in short supply? A 'megalomaniac' who wants to be considered by his followers as a teacher instead of his already accepted status of a god? TOTALLY incongruent! And your matter-of-fact explanation of his motives is ridiculous... like watching a Hollywood movie with an unbelievable plot that you end up walking out of. Anyone with half an understanding of human nature can see the obvious holes in it. Watching you guys flail around for a plausible explanation for his enigmatic personna is like watching a spastic try to paint the Mona Lisa... funny in a pathetic kind of way. BTW How do YOU know he's richer now than before? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 17:41:15 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: Hot air Message: Nil: You said, 'a spastic try to paint the Mona Lisa... funny in a pathetic kind of way.' When I read statements like this, it makes me crazy. You consider persons with disabilities 'funny in a pathetic kind of way?' No matter what a person w/disability is trying to do, it is anything but pathetic or funny (unless they are trying to be comedians.... then it's usually funny). I found your comment to be totally heartless and completely without merit. If you want us (me, in particular) to give you any respect, you must stop the discrminatory comments. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 19:28:21 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Mike Subject: Hot air Message: You consider persons with disabilities 'funny in a pathetic kind of way?' Mike, I know you want to throw a red-herring like a breach of political correctness into the discussion, but please try to stay on topic. Look, I don't have to answer to you about my character because you're not in a position to judge... and I really abhor such an arrogant display of piety on your part. Let me rephrase it: Your spastic attempt at trying to explain something you don't have a fucking clue about is both laughable, and pathetic... especially when you think it's such a work of art. Another thing Mike, I don't give a shit whether you respect me or not. I thought we got that out of the way long ago. And if you're disabled... no offense intended. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 19:41:13 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: Hot air Message: Nil: I do know a 'fucking thing' about people with disabilities: My daughter is in that category, asshole. I take that kind of talk pretty seriously because it is ALWAYS intended to hurt, never intended to help. This wasn't a red-herring; it's a typical demonstration of the incredible LOVE that you premies feel for those around you. I am a judge of your character... you don't have any. No offense intended... my ass! That's exactly what you intended and when you were called on it, you come up like you're a victim. My discussions with you are at an end FUCKHEAD! You can't even apologize for your own mean-spirited words. Go screw yourself and your asshole of a guru. You really are a NUL, not a NIL! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 20:39:24 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Mike Subject: Hot air Message: Mike, calm down and don't be so defensive. I don't even know you or your daughter so why would I want to hurt you? If you think I make a habit out of ridiculing disabled people, you're wrong, I'm around them every day in my work. What I said 'you don't have a fucking clue about' is what Maharaji is REALLY all about. As for apology, I told you there was no malice intended. Of course I'm sorry to hear that your daughter has a problem. But I refuse to apologize for something I didn't do... no matter how sensitive you are about the issue. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 08:21:30 (EST)
From: hamzen Email: None To: Nil Subject: Hot air Message: 'If you think I make a habit out of ridiculing disabled people, you're wrong, I'm around them every day in my work.' If that's the kind of language you use or the way you think then god help any disabled person around you. I am getting so pissed off with coming across that bollocks everyday from people who ought to know better. Go get yourself some decent supervision or training on respect for individuals. All those years of love have obviously worked wonders for you. God, do a flying visit and.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 18:55:53 (EST)
From: JHB Email: None To: Nil Subject: Hot air Message: Nil, Having just read through this thread, I am reminded of a definition of a premie Jim (I think) posted a few weeks ago. That is a premie is a person who cannot criticise M. When M changed everything, stoped darshan, stopped (for a while) selling photos and tapes, stopped satsang, and stopped premies propagating, I thought 'What a genius - this is how to attract more normal people to him'. I really believed that he was perfect, and that it was all part of his master plan. It seems you continue to be unable to see fault in him. John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 20:04:02 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: JHB Subject: Hot air Message: For Jim, when it comes to Maharaji, the glass is always half empty. My definition for a premie is a person who appreciates Knowledge and the role Maharaji plays in helping them to practice it. Now if a premie sincerely doesn't see fault in Maharaji, or could care less about his personal life, why is that such a big problem for you? John, I'd say you just lost faith, period. You found people who supported your doubts... and the rest is, as they say, history. Look, he gave me the greatest treasure I could ever have received from anyone. After that, I don't give a shit whether normal people receive Knowledge or monkeys do. And I grant him the permission to live his life as a unique individual without having to answer to me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 05:38:35 (EST)
From: JHB Email: None To: Nil Subject: So it's about faith? Message: Nil said:- > John, I'd say you just lost faith, period. You found people who > supported your doubts... and the rest is, as they say, history. So it's a religion then? Interesting to hear you admit this. Regarding the experience within, I also value that - I have just lost faith that it comes from M. You still have that faith, so therefore you:- > grant him the permission to live his life as a unique individual > without having to answer to (you). So you agree with what I and others have said, that he can do whatever he likes without you ever criticising him. I think your position is now very clear. You are in a belief system, and must defend your beliefs against anyone who challenges them. John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 13:34:32 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Nil Subject: On the face of it Message: Also, Nil, his prospects for getting as much money in darshan was dwindling because there were fewer premies, so it wasn't as lucrative as it had been. Don't know if you noticed, but thousands of premies left Maharaji in the early 80s never to return; a number of them are now posting here. Someone posted that they attended some EV 'participation' meeting in which it was disclosed that there are only about 3,000 active premies in the USA these days. (Actually I think the number was 2800.) Even a big international program in Long Beach only drew 8,000, and he bragged about that. That's a huge reduction over the numbers in the 70s and early 80s when programs like that easily drew 15,000-20,000. So, likely the lucrative nature of darshan was at least cut in half. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 21:33:15 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: JW Subject: On the face of it... to JW Message: Someone posted that they attended some EV 'participation' meeting in which it was disclosed that there are only about 3,000 active premies in the USA these days. (Actually I think the number was 2800.) I believe it was I who posted that JW. THe 2800 figure was given out by Rajaji at an info meeting in Toronto in Oct. 96. Please note, its the figure he gave for 'active premies' in all of North America, Canada included. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 01:19:06 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Nim Subject: On the face of it... to Nim Message: Thanks, Nim, I thought someone had posted that. I think this is also good information to put on the site. There is a FAQ section where Brian talks about 'how many followers does M have.' Why don't you e-mail Brian with this info and maybe he can include it there. Just a suggestion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:34:29 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: Spin on Doctor No Message: Nil: In all seriousness, the reason he stopped should be fairly obvious. The premies that came from fairly 'spiritual' backgrounds had dried up. Now he had to figure out a way to get generation-x into the picture. Kissing feet was definitely not something that this generation would want to do. PROBLEM: As soon as darshan went away, so did many 'oldies.' So, now he brings it back.... but he's safe because many of the 'new' generation have been brainwashed enough to 'permit' the toe-kissing to come back without freaking them out (and thus get the oldies to be more active). And on and on and on. This plan is so simple.... why don't others try it? Hey, wait a minute.... others have and they are successful too ( how many gurus are out there?????). Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:08:55 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Mike Subject: Spin on Doctor No Message: In all seriousness Mike he probably gave it up because the press made such a sensational story out of it that it got in the way of his message. As for your hypothesis re; what washed with generation-x, and losing oldies, and it now being safe because generation-x is sufficiently brainwashed... whew, sounds a tad contrived. But hey, if it fits into your explanation of the universe, go for it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 18:49:14 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Nil Subject: Also, Nil Message: I didn't mean that M only gave darshan to make money. I think he also partly did it to reinforce his own ego. But it definitely did make money. I remember in the middle of the plane project in 1980, Maharaji said he would donate some of his darshan line money, from the next darshan line, to help get his plane finished because it was short of cash. He didn't do it, but he certainly expected the cash to come in from darshan and he obviously saw it partly that way. Also, Nil, I don't intend to aggravate you. You just seem awfully easy to aggravate. You shouldn't let me or anyone get to you like that. At our age, (I assume we're of the same generation) it's bad for causing hypertension, especially in men, and it's the major cause of death for men over 40. By the way, both you and I have been mis-spelling 'hypocrisy.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 00:56:58 (EST)
From: cp Email: None To: Nil Subject: Try Washing Machine.elec dntns Message: Its a state of the art washing machine, you goose. I guess you dont know anything! Value equivalant to app 1/20 of what I gave to M at the expense of my family, dysfunction et al. He did not stop darshan lines had a few in Aust. and NZ.in 97 But the problem is solved anyway. Check out the back of the Amaroo Pamplets. There is a really helpful instructions on how to have donations removed automatically from your bank account to his, This is electronic donations. Havent read the thread, gotta get to the Saphire Lounge, Im on at 10. Have fun Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 17:43:52 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! Message: Nil: I'll bet you swallow, hook/line/sinker, everything the media says about almost anything! You will only disagree with them when they dis your guru or something else that you happen to hold dear. Don't give us that holier than thou crap.... It doesn't work here. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:40:32 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Mike Subject: Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! Message: I'll bet you swallow, hook/line/sinker, everything the media says about almost anything! You will only disagree with them when they dis your guru or something else that you happen to hold dear. Don't give us that holier than thou crap.... It doesn't work here. Actually Mike that holier-than-thou crap works quite well here, and regularily. As for my belief in the media... what the fuck would you know about it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 19:59:18 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! Message: Ok Nil, I'll bait you: I'll bet you believe the MEDIA generated argument that you are 58 percent more likely to hurt yourself with a firearm in your home than you are to use it correctly on a crook, right? That is a bullsh_t statement and here's the proof from the government's own mouth. Believe the statistics of the following: FBI, BATF and the National Safety Council. According to the FBI, over 300,000 (that's right, 3 hundred thousand) crimes are stopped by civilians with guns in an average year. Most of these are stopped without a shot being fired. Now, if we were 58 percent more likely to experience an accident in the home than we were to use it correctly, then that would mean that there are over 500,000 firearms related accidents in the home every year. Guess what? The National Safety Council said there were only a few hundred accidents TOTAL (in the home or outside the home, ANYWHERE) in those same years. So WHO made up that 58 percent 'more likley' bull? The media, that's who! And I'll bet you still believe it! P.S. JW, if you are reading this.... I'm not baiting you :-) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 20:22:12 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Mike Subject: Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! Message: It's a government conspiracy Mike... that's the only explanation. Say, why don't we all move to Montana, set up a compound, and wait for Armaggedon. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 12:38:34 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! Message: Nil: Montana's nice, but a compound???? Nah, I did my stint in the military (the real one :) Armageddon? Nope to that, too. Don't believe it will happen. I think we are just going to nickle and dime ourselves to death with these stupid little regional affairs. Gov't conspiracy? No again! This time, it's the gov't telling the truth, but everyone quotes the media and organizations like HCI, that have a very specific political agenda (IMHO). Unfortunately, no one listens to the very people that are chartered to keep those statistics; the media is all they hear. On the fact of it, I would agree that just because it's in the papers doesn't necessarily mean that it's true. BUT, and this is a biggie, when you have independent confirmation from people like JW or have seen it yourself, then the media is just a confirmation of what you already know. The 'trinkets' that were confiscated from M's flight are a matter of official record, not just a newspaper article (that was only reporting the simple fact of the seizure). Nil, I know that this is a really uncomfortable question to answer, but given the plethora of evidence, could it be that M really is a money-grubbing fraud? I'm not talking about meditation or the techniques, I'm talking about him. If he is a fraud, don't you think that 'someone' should be telling others about it before they fall into the same trap? If he isn't a fraud, then he will stand on his own merits and the opposition will just dry up and blow away, right? So, why all the effort do get us to 'go away' sooner? Just a thought...... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 20:35:27 (EST)
From: Nil Email: None To: Mike Subject: Did You Hear Elvis is Alive!! Message: I know that this is a really uncomfortable question to answer, but given the plethora of evidence, could it be that M really is a money-grubbing fraud? And it may be equally uncomfortable for you to accept the possibility that based on a plethora of satisfied people who still follow Maharaji, he really has revealed the eternal treasure within that every scripture has called heaven. And just as uncomfortable for you Mike may be the admission that you missed it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 11:57:53 (EST)
From: Mike Email: None To: Nil Subject: Not uncomfortable at all Message: Nil: I came to the conclusion, quite a while ago, that if there were a 'heaven,' then I MOST DEFINITELY missed the boat. Unfortunately, my devotion to M got me no closer than I was to begin with and, as a matter of personal fact, I 'experienced' less while I was practicing K than I did when I was practicing other forms of meditation during my younger years. If you've read my earlier posts on this subject, you will note that I had some pretty 'powerful' experiences in my younger days. These 'went away' when I started practicing K. The problem is, Nil, that I don't really see a plethora of 'satisfied' people around M. If the active premies that visit us here are a sample of 'satisfaction,' then count me out. I, personally, have been threatened with physical violence by more than one of them. BTW, YOU haven't done this, so I'm not including you specifically. The mood expressed by most premies that visit here is extreme ANGER, not love (as the term 'premie' refers). The mood expressed isn't 'understanding' or 'compassion' for us poor souls who've lost our way. Look in the archives. I doubt that you will find a SINGLE expression of real comapassion coming from a premie. Why? If premies are 'experiencing' ANYTHING that is timeless, holy, wonderous or pure love, they would have only that to express in our deluded direction.... not hissing, venomous hatred for us and this site. Sorry, I just don't see 'satisfaction' in the premies that have blessed us with their presence. What I have seen is raging ego, self indulgence, self importance, and holier-than-thou, but NOT satisfaction. Like I said, Nil, this wasn't specifically directed towards you, so please do not take offense. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:30:05 (EST)
From: bill Email: None To: JW Subject: that aint the reason Message: He hated her for other reasons. He was already way out of control and far into the narcissicm that still has him completely. Thank you for getting these stories. Can you find the denver post mishler stories from 78 or 79? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:55:28 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: bill Subject: that aint the reason Message: I haven't found the Mishler interview in the Denver Post. Are there any ex-premies in Denver who could contact the post and find an article in the first three months of 1979 which was an interview with Bob Mishler? The Post must have a data base and can get the article. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:37:39 (EST)
From: Nim Email: jfb@netc.net To: JW Subject: To JW Message: just sent you an em to your home with a cc to your office. Please let me know when everything has been received. Nim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 23:51:02 (EST)
From: JW Email: None To: Nim Subject: Got it, Thank you (nt) Message: Nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 00:02:57 (EST)
From: Nim Email: None To: JW Subject: Great!!(nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 02:36:35 (EST)
From: Jethro Email: None To: JW Subject: Did You Ever Hear This? Message: I had heard that hansji's death was suspicious. I assumed it was becuase he had proclaimed himself satguru after swarupanand's death and rival groups were 'at war'. Regargs Jethro Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 11:32:45 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Hans Ji slipped on soap Message: About Hans Ji Maharaj's death: According to what I heard, from what I consider reliable sources, Hans Ji slipped on a piece of soap in his bathroom, fell and hit his head. That's why his death came suddenly and unexpectedly. M. has also confirmed that the death came suddenly - he was called home from school. Anyway, it's fairly certain that Hans Ji Maharaj did NOT 'leave his mortal body in perfect peace', as stated in DLM/EV books and films. I find it very hard to believe that Mom should have poisoned her husband. Very unbelievable. I do trust the story about the soap. But I do think that her choice was BBJ as satguru, and certain mahatmas - among them, Gurucharanand - wanted Prem Pal instead. I remember once having heard Gurucharanand mention that he actually had HEARD Hans Ji say that Prem Pal was to be his successor. Whether it is true, or just something Gurucharanand let out, I don't know, and I guess nobody does. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 11:53:35 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Happy Subject: OK: mom lost her soap piece Message: and that was not intended. Hanji entered the bathroom to save her, and slipped on the piece of soap. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 12:18:28 (EST)
From: Stevei Email: None To: Happy Subject: Make it Sound Good Message: Guru Charanand told me that Hans Ji died in perfect peace..Like a Great Yogi he left his mortal body sitting in meditation just as he wanted....This is a blow about falling on a bar of soap..it makes it rather shamefull story to tell and not very Yogi to die falling on a bar of soap.... I really wonder what the TRUTH is? Gurucharanand used to say in theold days that when u meditate on the light...you can see all the past perfect masters in the light inside you.....But in 1989 he told me when I asked him if that was true or not...He said to me that well...he used to say that like all other things in the past...meaning that he jsut said it to make it sound good... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 13:21:04 (EST)
From: Happy Email: None To: Stevei Subject: The soap story is true Message: Sorry, Stevei, I am almost 100% certain that the soap story is true. I have it from a very reliable source, which I don't want to reveal at this point. Yes, it is a blow when we realize that people that we have trusted, and which appeared so nice and loving, in fact were lying. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 18, 1999 at 16:39:21 (EST)
From: Zac Email: None To: Happy Subject: On this lie alone Message: I never would have received knowledge. If I had learned it within 30-60 days of attending regular satsang, of course. You know before the mind 'froze up' completely. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |