Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 46 | |
From: Apr 27, 1999 |
To: May 17, 1999 |
Page: 4 Of: 5 |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 19:32:22 (EDT)
From: peter hwoie Email: petebear@ozemail.com.au To: Everyone Subject: Other bastards other schmucks Message: Finished reading a book 'Outrageous Betrayel' which is a great book about est, werner erhard, the forum. Most premies who quit in the late 80's would probably have avoided this one. The book is a great read because it happens to someone else - like a few books about the moonies - anyway there is a really neat bit towards the end - i'll paraphrase 'The inner circle of trainers (12 or so) were gathered together for a rare get together with werner. There was a real feeling in the air. Then someone said 'The quesion that we all have is 'Are you the messiah' The room went silent. Then werner said 'No. I am the one who sent him.' Silence, acceptance (another mind fuck, etc) Now does this seem familiar. The guy slept with 2 of his daugthers, paid no-one anything like a real wage, had thousands of volunteers, abused people emotionally and physically on a regular basis, used ideas ripped off from other rip-off merchants and got very very rich while at the same time paying little or no tax. Great parallels - worth a quick read - written by a journalist so it is written in such a way as to keep the tid-bits dropping at a great rate. Cheers for now Peter Howie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 22:54:03 (EDT)
From: crow Email: None To: peter hwoie Subject: the est-dlm connection Message: premies in denver in 1976 did get into werner erhardt and est. In fact, werner erhardt came to the denver IHQ (international headquarters) to meet with m after some of the staff reccomended to m that it would help him. m approved the idea and a session was planned for erhardt to come help m 'get it' (in est terminology). M refused to see him after erhardt got to the meeting. M would not come out of his office or let him in. (when two titans meet) you know, Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 23:02:02 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: crow Subject: the est-dlm connection Message: What I heard back in those days was that premies didn't get est because they already had it. I personally knew at least 3 denver premies who had est. victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 00:51:14 (EDT)
From: pteradactyl Email: None To: Victoria Subject: the est-dlm connection Message: what IS 'getting it'? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 10:57:52 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: pteradactyl Subject: the est-dlm connection Message: I'm embarrassed to say I did the EST training.My dad was really into it and paid for it. I think 'getting it' is getting that you're responsible for your life. And it also is kind of a zen thing, about getting off of yourself and 'being with' life. Shit, I don't even know what 'getting it' is. You can see what I 'got'--NUFFIN!! and to the tune of 300 bucks or some such thing --(-that was ALOT of bucks in the 70's). Oh I did GET something--a urinary tract infection because they don't let you go pee except at certain breaks. I guess Werner thought we eat and pee too much to 'avoid' dealing with uncomfortable emotions. Shit, if I have to pee I have to pee!! My dad used to talk the est lingo all the time and it drove me absolutely batty. And he's a writer too! All that 'say what you mean,and mean what you say' stuff he had taught me all my life about writing went out the window as he started talking in a lingo that noone but another EST graduate could understand. OY!! That book sounds great BTW. You know we as a culture were such suckers for this shit back in the 70's. Hopefully, we've all evolved a little?????? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 06, 1999 at 13:15:09 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Helen Subject: est and Semi-Tough Message: Hey, Helen, Did you see the movie? The part where Burt Reynolds went to the training (I think his girlfriend coerced him) but first he bought a 'Trucker's Little Helper' -- some kind of device the guys can hook up and go pee right there in the chair -- without having to stop at the Truck Stop (or leave the room to go to the lav). It was so funny, you heard the pee going into the bottle, everyone turned to look at him and he turned around also... By the way...your one-post-a-day resolution didn't last very long. Don't fight it, stay in the conversation, it's okay...just don't read the parts you don't want to waste your time with. I, for one, can't stomach anything with CatWeasel in it...this gives me more time to play Barbie with my daughter! Love, Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 17:44:06 (EDT)
From: Louie Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Who are you? Message: As a newcomer to this sight I can't believe my eyes. Who are you people? I've been away from premies and ex-premies in total denial for 18 years and here I am with my first contact and the conversation is right where I left it. How come nobody talks like this in the real world that I live in. I think I kind of missed it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 19:30:55 (EDT)
From: tex Email: None To: Louie Subject: howdy pardner! Message: Welcome to the cutting edge. 'LEAVE SOME ROOM FOR DOUBT IN YOUR MIND....' Yep thats our theme song 'roun these parts. come aboard!!!- have you checked out the archives.???? we's cookin up somethin REAL nice.. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 20:13:58 (EDT)
From: Louie Email: None To: tex Subject: howdy pardner! Message: Thanks for the welcome wagon but I think I'll just sit a spell and watch the action for a while. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 20:23:46 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Louie Subject: Whole Lot of Different People Message: How come nobody talks like this in the real world that I live in. Louie: In my experience, most people in the real world do not discuss these things because they were fortunate never to have been members of a destructive, devotional cult. Unless you have been through something like that, and most of the people here have, it's very difficult to understand what the big deal is. This is one reason why there is a place like this -- it's sometimes good to talk to others who understand what you've been through. All the best, Louie and welcome. JW Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 20:42:16 (EDT)
From: david m Email: None To: Lou Subject: Whole Lot of Different People Message: Hey Lou...For me this Forum has let me experience thru words and thought what really happened to me Years ago..It has helped me work thru all kinds of emotions..and experiences.that i had questions about..So hang arround for a while and see if anything is stirred inside you...peace...david m Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 09:17:08 (EDT)
From: Louie Email: None To: david m Subject: Whole Lot of Different People Message: Perhaps it's better to let sleeping dogs lie. What do you accomplish by rehashing the past. Learn and move on. I've done that and been very successful at it. This site stirs up some weird feelings that may be best left unstirred. Or perhaps I've just fooled myself and need to tear down the walls. tell me what this talking does for you all. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 10:44:59 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Louie Subject: Whole Lot of Different People Message: Hi Louie, The forum can become a bit of a preoccupation but it actually was very helpful to me when I discovered it. It was traumatic to tear down the walls and to relive some of the creepy stuff. I recovered memories that I had blocked and felt ashamed of. It is helpful to correspond with others who share that strange history. It depends I guess on how much you feel you need to re-open a chapter of your life. For me, it all has to do with power. I often have felt powerless in my life. I have always been a 'go with the flow' kind of person, often that meant go along with the strongest person who is bossing me around. Of course this goes back to childhood issues. So it's not a surprise that I was taken in by a guru. I find the forum helpful to help me get more of a sense of power over my life. The forum's purpose and is to disseminate info about Maharaji and to give people one of the only places they can talk about this stuff. If you are not the kind of person who likes to hash out things, you may just want to lurk a little here and there. That's what I've been doing lately. Take the good from it, and leave the rest. But recognize that many people invested a lot into the guru and have a lot of recovery to do--& they need to talk about it. And they feel a sense of personal responsibility to see that he is stopped. Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 17:34:26 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Louie Subject: Whole Lot of Different People Message: When I discovered this site about two years ago, I thought that I had moved on; I had decided that M was okay but his fan club was messed up. Reading the discussions here and finally joining into discussion with others here helped me realize how much I needed to deal with this stuff. Yes, it did stir up a lot that I thought I had finished with, but I feel much healthier now. I have also met some wonderful people here, people I consider good friends. When I was a premie, I noticed a lack of intimacy between people in the cult. I thought that I had a relationship with M, but the truth is that he didn't know me from Adam or even care about me. It is my belief that M and Elan Vital discourge any close relationships between premies; they are all rugged individuals spiritually and ignore family and friends for the Lard. They attend videos but there does not seem to be any real sense of community. The Forum is a community in a way, and much more of a community than I ever experienced as a premie. At this site people will confront you, people will commiserate with you, people will share your joys and your pains. These are all parts of being human. If you decide to stay here, stuff will get stirred up, but these are things worth dealing with. I hope that you will stay and join in the discussion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 17:43:33 (EDT)
From: Louie Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Whole Lot of Different People Message: The welcome here has been warm But reading other threads is truly frightening. Such anger and resentment. Maybe I've been out too long. Although my involvement was deep and complex and total(housemom-ashram the whole ball of wax from 72-80ish) I created a new life for myself. I know there are deep issues that I've buried but the things I've been reading sort of remind me of why I got out. Are these the same people I had to escape from to save my life? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 17:52:01 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Louie Subject: Whole Lot of Different People Message: There is a lot of anger here at times, but most of it is righteous anger. Some people gave up everything for M and were tossed out on the street when he closed the ashram. Some gave up educational opportunities for 'the knowledge you can't get in college.' Some have just recently realized that the wool was pulled over their eyes for twenty years or so. They should be angry, and it is understandable that they are hostile when M's defenders come here to tell us it was all our fault and that he is blameless. If someone's posts frighten you, try to avoid their posts (I know that this can be difficult). I will tell you that in my experience the really cruel, nasty, hatred-filled posts tend to come from the apologists. Some of the exes can get pretty nasty, too, but that is all part of free speech, something which does not exist on the pro-M sites. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 06, 1999 at 20:49:52 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Whole Lot of Different People Message: Dear Mickey, You are all that. :) That's Robyn the homeboy coming out! I get to much second hand gansta rap. :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 07, 1999 at 02:34:05 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Way off topic Message: Hey, did you know I was born in Oakland? Oh Robyn, you will always be my favorite member of the Lullaby League! Hey, if you really want to hear a cool CD, pick up the new CD by Tom Waits, 'Mule Variations.' It is the most incredible thing I have heard this year. Of course, some of it is very much on the edge, but that's what makes it good; some of it is very sweet, too. I was also very impressed by the new XTC CD 'Apple Venus Vol. I.' I haven't bought any gansta rap since Public Enemy broke up. Love, Your Representative on the Lollipop Guild. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 07, 1999 at 11:36:34 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Way off topic Message: Dear Mickey, Thanks, Jessica, my daughter in SF, CA, LOVES Tom Waits. I'll tell her and then make her make me a tape! Is Oakland where gansta rap started? I didn't get the significance of that statement. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 07, 1999 at 14:57:54 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Way off topic Message: Oakland is one of the homes of West Coast rap. A lot of Soul, rhythm and blues, etc. comes out of Oakland. I think your daughter will love the new Tom Waits CD; my daughter keeps taking it into her room! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 07, 1999 at 12:33:09 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Louie Subject: Who are you? Message: Dear Louie, I appologize for my rudeness. I was having an exchange with Mickey and never even gave you the time of day. Welcome. If you think you can get something from the forum or not I wish you well. I am just finding out in my personal life that just burying things from the past, my family stuff in this case, it doesn't really go away until you finally look at it, digest it and decide what to do with it. Good luck. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 07, 1999 at 17:12:01 (EDT)
From: Louie Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Who are you? Message: Not so rude- this is the only thread I feel safe in. And I too love Tom Waites, so see I already learned something here. Wow- Not to judge, but what a load of bad vibes all around on other threads.. But I guess that bad vibes to me is music to the others. Actually I'm starting to feel very healthy and lucky after following forum for a few days now. I know I will deal with some of my buried issues but I don't think I'd revert to rudeness. What a turnoff this might have been if I was using it to timidly emerge from that GM life. Thanks again for this nice safe spot in all the tumolt. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 07, 1999 at 21:10:16 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: katie@ex-premie.org To: Louie Subject: greetings to Louie Message: Hi Louie- You wrote: What a turnoff this might have been if I was using it to timidly emerge from that GM life. Thanks again for this nice safe spot in all the tumolt. I agree that the anger and frustration on here make it very hard for new people to post at times, and I wish there were more safe places here on the forum. I said this above, but posting here sometimes requires a thick skin, which I think is a shame. (I do know that I've gotten a lot more assertive since I started posting here, so it's not all bad. Also, I get a lot of support from others here via e-mail, which helps). I edit the posts prior to archiving and have seen that the angry threads tend to come in waves - ditto for serious threads and off-topic stuff (which can be fun - e.g. Tom Waits - and have helped me to get to know the other people here.) Why am I here? I don't feel that I got all that traumatized from my involvement with Maharaji. I never lived in the ashram, thank God, and I was into some pretty self-destructive things before I became a premie, so it almost seemed like a step up at the time. I was also fortunate enough to have support from other ex-premies at the time when I was leaving (a lot of people here did not have that, and I admire their courage in making the decision to leave on their own). I started posting here because I found that an old premie friend of mine had committed suicide and I felt terrible about it - enough to want to reach out to other people who might be in the same situation that he was. After I started posting on forum (we used Usenet back then), I began to really like communicating with most of the other ex-premies who also posted on here. I did a lot of e-mailing back and forth - I felt that I'd found a real community. I do think there is something about most ex-premies that makes us similar. It's not just the fact that we all got into following Maharaji in the first place - it's the fact that we all decided to leave. Many of the people here have similar past and present-day experiences, and talking to people on the forum has helped me a lot with similar issues of my own. I really see it as a support group (although it certainly doesn't seem that way sometimes!) You asked something about why you'd want to dredge up all this stuff from the past. I don't think that talking about the Guru past is necessary for everyone, so you might not want to do it - it just depends. For me, the time when I was involved with Maharaji was an isolated period in my life. Nothing before or after seemed to connect to it. When I left, all those memories and relationships were cut off abruptly. I wanted it that way then, and I think it was helpful. But when I started posting here and talking about my experiences as a premie with people who could completely relate to it, it helped me reclaim that period of my life (it is very hard for people who were NOT into it to understand it, as you probably know.) I do feel better about this, and I think it's helped me understand myself, and also to accept myself more too. Anyway, welcome to you, Louie. I hope you'll keep being a part of the conversation here - thanks for posting. Take care, Katie P.S. I think I might know you from the past. I wrote the above somewhat impersonally (hedging my bets), because there are a lot of cases of mistaken identity here and I didn't want to sound weird in case I DON'T know you. But if I do know you, the syllable 'Lou' is part of your given name. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, May 07, 1999 at 21:54:05 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Louie Subject: greetings to Louie Message: Hey Louie, You sound fine to me, I mean you sound brave to say what you've already said here. shit you said stuff your first week here that it took me 6 months to get up the courage to say about this site. Hey I'm sure you'd have a lot to contribute here if you wish to venture into other threads. But as Katie said, many folks here prefer to e-mail with one another if it's too freaky talking honestly in this public arena (er, coliseum????) Seriously, there is a lot of support to be found here and some great people. But feeling safe is an important consideration for us all and I know the forum can be intimidating!!! Take care Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 22:10:12 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Maharaji Defenses Message: Yes, I've done it again. I've accepted an old premie friend's invitation to discuss things on the basis that she and I would remain open to challenge. And again I'm disgusted with a premie's insincerity that is so settled and thick they're almost -- not quite -- but almost fooling themself. I feel like biting the edge of my hand. The worst part might be how predictable it gets after a while. Anyway, I sent her this email: Do you have any idea what it's like being in my shoes and having had so many discussions with premies like you? I think maybe you might like to think about it for a bit. A bit of a 'thought experiment', if you will. I can tell you this. I have yet to encounter an original defense of Maharaji over all this time. That is, I've heard all the same comments again and again even though, when looked at for even more than a second, NONE of them stand close scrutiny. They're all completely full of holes. Here they are in a very, VERY brief nutshell: 1) Maharaji never did x. You're lying, making it up, someone's tricked you or you're just mistaken. Maybe someone else did x in Maharaji's name but he certainly had nothing to do with it. 2) Maharaji never said x. You're lying, making it up, someone's tricked you or you're just mistaken. You have no proof and even if you do those transcripts were often faulty. Or, if you heard it from someone else, maybe they were lying. You'll never know. 3) If Maharaji said x, he didn't mean 'x'. That's the trouble with you, you take things too literally. He never meant it that way, etc. etc. Words are tricky, that's all the more reason to not trust them. Get past the words,get into the feeling. 4) If Maharaji did mean x, he was young then. It wasn't his fault, he had a lot of growing to do. 5) Or, alternatively, he still means it. That is, he IS bringing peace to the world, he IS the Supreme Lord in Human form, etc. Your problem is that you just can't understand these things with your limited mind. 6) Even if Maharaji made some mistakes he doesn't owe you or anyone an explanation. Who do you think you are, anyway? 7) Maharaji's already more than explained and accounted for all of his past(and present). You're just too thick to listen, that's all. 8) Maybe Maharaji WILL answer you if you ask him nicely. Or maybe if you waited longer. 9) You just can't use your mind to understand the master. That's what makes him a master. Neat eh? 10) Oh yeah, even if Maharaji did or said x, it didn't affect me personally so what do I care? Am I missing any? Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 22:34:36 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: Jim Subject: You're in your mind! Message: You should give premies the benefit of the doubt that they at least try to present a thoughtful response instead of the '70s stand-by of you're in your mind, brother. While they may not say so, they are probably thinking that. Whoa, that's duality, isn't it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 12:57:28 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: A Few More Message: Great summary Jim, but I think there are a few more: 11) Even if M did or said x, he doesn't do it anymore, that was 20 years ago and all people criticizing him are living in the past. M got rid of DLM and all the other terrible stuff that he never wanted anyway and he did it for our benefit; 12) Everyone who criticizes M has something emotionally or psychologically wrong with them, they are simply angry, vindictive people, now part of an anti-Maharaji cult, and therefore you can't believe anything they say; 13) This whole discussion is due to Jim Heller, who has a mysterious power over people, is actually now the anti-Maharaji cult leader, and without him, nobody would be complaining; 14) Mahararji has 'evolved' (even M argues THIS) and, apparently, all that 'I am God' stuff was just part of a natural evolution and all part of the (divine) plan; 15) You can't prove anything. What you are saying might not necessarily be true and therefore I don't believe it. Even if M says he is a fradulent scumbag, you can't prove he really said it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 16:16:26 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: JW Subject: Excellent, let's make a list Message: Joe, I knew you'd do this. Yes, these are excellent additions. I really think we should make a list of all of these defenses. Then, we can try to come up with some polished answers. Everyone can play. Hopefully, we can then find a permanent home for it all, either here or on Roger's or JM's site. I think one of the frsutrations I feel walking this picket line is having to reinvent the wheel, so to speak, with all these different premies that come by. It'd be great if we had a basic on-line 'handout' we could simply refer to and save some of our precious human breath. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 16:29:33 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Here's another -- Roger? Message: Here's another defense, credit to WM over on CD's site: Who am I to judge? There are a few versions of this: 1) There's a real story out there but I'll never know it (and no, Maharaji doesn't owe me any help in piecing it together.) 2) Whatever the 'real' story, who knows what's 'real' anyway? I can't judge anything or anyone for, as we all know, we've all judged poorly before. And judging a 'Master'? Come now! 3) Scriptures warn against the folloy of judging others. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 18:39:13 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek Email: None To: Jim Subject: Yes, gonna do something Message: Yes, I do want to do something with this list. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 19:22:29 (EDT)
From: peter howie Email: petebear@ozemail.com.au To: Jim Subject: Maharaji Defenses Message: Good one Jim I'm going to keep this as acheck list when I'm next involved in one of these types of discussions and see if there is anything new coming out. Maybe I will send this ahead and invite them to think of a new response before I get there - it might be more useful that way Cheers Peter Howie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 16:10:54 (EDT)
From: JHB Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Great Wisdom from a Premie Message: Mark Winter has posted the following in the Wit and Wisdom section on the ELK forum:- 'It is the tragedy of the world that no one knows what he doesn't know; and the less a man knows, the more sure he is that he knows everything.' - Joyce Carey, quoted in the UK newspaper, The Guardian.' This is precisely what I've wanted to say to some of the premies who post here. They really think they know everything just because they've had some inner experiences and they love their guru. Listen you guys, you don't know everything, and it's almost certain a lot of what you think you know is lies!!!! John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 16:09:05 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Knowledge Lite Premies Message: A couple of recent defectors from the Maharaji cult have pointed out a high percentage of the people who received knowledge in the 90s, under the 'knowledge lite' regime, appear to have fallen away in large numbers. Others have said that most of the premies that still go to programs are the what remains of leftovers from the 70s. In the videos I have seen, when the audience is panned, it looks highly middle-aged, which would support that fact. It seems to me that without communities, ashrams, premie houses, community coordinators, and the rest, that it's unlikely people will hang around who haven't lived through the period when all that was happening. Without the group pressure to constantly be pulled back in, it would appear people would get distracted and go back to their lives. But the 70s crowd, the few that are still around, are so thoroughly indoctrinated and identified with being premies that they continue to be involved. Any comments on any of this? If it's true, it doesn't bode well for 'propogation' for M. Although it might be easier to 'get' knowledge, and easier to 'practice' it nowadays, it's probably a whole lot less likely that people will stay around for very long. Anyone have comments? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 16:39:55 (EDT)
From: Out About 16 months Email: None To: JW Subject: Knowledge Lite Premies Message: I was at my last local video event about 16 months ago. In my community there seemed to be a spurt of propagation and newcomers (younger) in '94 and or '95 that led to a couple of Knowledge sessions. It appeared to me that the newcomers came diligently to the videos while they were aspirants and after receiving Maharaji's precious Knowledge their attendance became more sporadic until it appeared that they stopped coming entirely. Interestingly, sometime in late '97 our local community honcho announced that their were about 25 aspirants. While I do not know if this number is accurate or not, sometimes I would end up at the aspirant videos or the intro videos and I sure didn't see no 25 eager fresh faces. Actually, 25 might have been the maximum number of hardcore old timers in semi-regular attendance. Then again, we know that premies don't know how to count very well. I'm not sure if Maharaji posts Knowledge session statistics on his website or not, but I'd suspect that in the U.S. it's pretty dismal. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 17:16:19 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Out About 16 months Subject: Learn counting in EV Message: 25 aspirants means that 25 people showed up one day or the other during a certain period of time or an average of 3 persons came at 8 video events for asp during 1 month, which means there are 1 to 5 more or less interested persons, as curious people are not allowed at premies videos. Among those 5 poersons, there are often persons from premie's families worrying about their relatives, and persons involved in cult-watch organizations. Could be that there is 1 or 2 aspirants, who knows? I've been recently in touch with persons in that case, worrying about their relatives, and who've learned a lot thanks to the Internet..... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 18:47:46 (EDT)
From: TD Email: None To: JW Subject: Knowledge Lite Premies Message: Definitely the majority of premies are from the 70's - no question about it. I always felt like I was part of this tiny minority group, as there were so few premies under the age of 40 at any of the events I went to. What was interesting was that most of the really young aspirants or premies (in their late teens or early 20's - and there were a only a few of those) were usually children of existing premies. I'd love to see some stats (and not EV interpreted ones!) on the percentage of premies kids who go on to get involved vs. those that don't. I reckon I would have dropped K and the Big M much quicker if I hadn't been living with an old premie too, as there were lots of people at my K session who I never saw at any event after the K session - obviously they realised pretty quickly on that it wasn't all that it was hyped up to be and did the sensible thing, ie. gave it the flick pretty quickly. Actually something I had meant to mention previously was this whole concept of phone-trees. My ex had this list of about 10 people given to him by EV who he would always have to ring to inform of any coming MJ events (either MJ live or special video/participation day ones). He'd always get pissed off because they were these old lapsed premies who he said in the last ten years never actually came to an event, but at the same time when he asked them if they wanted to be removed from the phone-tree, none of them wanted to be taken off. Human nature I guess, in not wanting to be left out of an informative loop or maybe a still lingering fear of rotting vegies! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 21:19:38 (EDT)
From: Denise Email: None To: JW Subject: Knowledge Lite Premies Message: I agree with you. Receiving K at age 19 in '83, I've always been the youngest in every community I've lived in --usually by 15 to 20 years! Although I tried to propagate K, every person I turned on to K in the '80s left almost immediately (6 or 7 people). I pretty much gave up on propagation after that. Younger people are definately in the minority. I've wondered, however, whether M might have a second large group of devotees among the teens now, seeing as Indian music and customs (mendhi, etc.) are in style again, as well as the whole 70s look. I have seen a few older teens at events as well. I guess they could be premie kids, but wonder whether (the K trip) it will catch on and take off. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 22:13:52 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Denise Subject: Mendhi? Message: Hey Denise, What is mendhi? I just try to keep up with the youngsters, you know, and now that 70s styles are back in, it is truly a blessing that I could not afford to buy new clothes for all these 20 years! Love, Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 14:47:27 (EDT)
From: Denise Email: None To: Victoria Subject: Mendhi?! Message: Victoria, Mendhi is the art of dying designs onto the skin with henna, a custom in India and the Middle East. It is mainly done for ceremonial purposes, esp. weddings, where the bride's hands (palms) and feet are painted with intricate designs with a mixture of henna powder, water, and lime juice. I hear the original custom was that she became the property of the man's family and had to work at his house, but not until the designs on her hands wore off (last apprx. 2-3 weeks), this being the honeymoon-type period. Before a wedding, there is a mendhi party where the women decorate each other's hands and feet, though I'm not sure if all the female guests get it or not. Americans have been doing it for a couple years now, People magazine always seems to have photos of stars with mendhi designs on their hands, esp. Madonna and Sting's wife to name a few. Henna powder can be purchased at any Indian grocery for about $1-$2 for a small box that will do about 20 people. It is also available at some beauty supplies with stencil designs. If you're interested in trying it, check out the Tapdancing Lizard website that is devoted to mendhi, but there are other sites, too. Have fun, stay hip! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 09:32:30 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Great news 4 you Prempal! Message: Go have a look there! The Lard now has His OWN section on the Yahoo! search engine. I really thought he deserved it! I can't resist imagining his face! Livid? Furious? I'd pay anything to know more.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 10:38:32 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Great news 4 you Prempal! Message: That's great! We must not let him hide his light under a bushel, modest chap that he is. I'll add my own little site to the section which I'm sure will please him immensely. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 10:42:56 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Feels great to please the Lord Message: I guess more and more will queue up to fill the place... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 12:29:50 (EDT)
From: Happy Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: very good! (nt) Message: x Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 13:51:42 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek Email: None To: Happy Subject: I'll be there, too! Message: Hey, wait for me! God, this Internet is great. I dunno why Maharaji told everyone to stay away from it! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 14:03:28 (EDT)
From: Happy Email: None To: Roger E. Drek Subject: Yes. please... Message: Get your site there too! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 15:26:46 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Excellent Message: Great news, JM. I thought it was interesting, that of all the gurus and others listed, Maharaji has the distinction of being the only one who has his very own 'ex' site. None of the others appears to have a website of disgruntled ex-devotees. I guess that says a lot about Maharaji. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 15:43:28 (EDT)
From: Happy Email: None To: JW Subject: Siddha Yoga exes Message: There is an excellent ex-site for Siddha Yoga, but they're not listed by Yahoo. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 17:03:43 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JW Subject: Spamming's result? Message: Could be the result of m spamming the search engines, but this only a very wild guess! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 19:33:10 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Spamming's result? Message: As far as I know, you can't spam Yahoo, they don't work that way. You have to submit one URL for your site and they have a look at your site and verify that it is suitable for their catagory. AltaVista is a different kettle of fish though. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 04:57:56 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Research - Treatment Bound Message: A research paper: Residential Treatment The Potential for Cultic Evolution David A. Halperin, M.D. Mount Sinai School of Medicine, New York Arnold Markowitz, M.S.W. Cult Hotline and Clinic, New York F.A.C.T.Net, Inc. (Fight Against Coercive Tactics Network, Incorporated) a non-profit ... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 05:20:39 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek Email: None To: Roger E. Drek Subject: Rick Ross links to ex-premie Message: Rick Ross the famed deprogrammer's new site since losing the lawsuit to Scientology. Now Scientology owns Cult Awareness Network (CAN)! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 15:26:42 (EDT)
From: Fortune Cookie Email: None To: Roger E. Drek Subject: Read my palm Message: Here's one for all you astrology buffs: Foxy Lady Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 19:41:16 (EDT)
From: dv Email: None To: Roger E. Drek Subject: Rick Ross links to ex-premie Message: Very resourceful site- just keep him away from my astral sex club... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 23:40:09 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Everyone Subject: A Conundrum Message: Hi All, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 .... OK I'm cool. Here's a question I've been pondering during my little break: Does the Lord of Maya grant himself frequent flyer miles when he's in his GIV-SP, Whirlybird, or Glider? If so, where would he cash them in or what perks could he trade them for? Love to All, Mary M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 10:08:30 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Mary M Subject: A Conundrum Message: Maybe he can bargain with St. Pete at the pearly gates. PS. I'm headed off to federal court again in a few hours for the week. Check in later. Miss you guys. Keep Manny Babbitt, who is scheduled to be executed at San Quentin Tuesday at 12:01 am, in your thoughts. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 10:44:26 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Marianne Subject: A Conundrum Message: Will do Marianne. xo, Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 15:55:01 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Marianne Subject: A Conundrum Message: Will do Marianne. What is it you do at the court? I have a friend who has just come back from Texas and attended a convention there re abolishing capital punishment, with Emmie Lou Harris and others. Also Mahatma Gandi's son or grandson was there and the Dalai Lama or someone speaking on behalf of the Dalai Lama Where you there? Love Liz ps Glad you're still posting. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 22:03:39 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Liz Subject: A Conundrum (OT) Message: I took a quick look at the posts and saw your messages. It does not look good for Manny. Very sad. There is a huge contingent of Viet Nam vets who served in Khe Sanh w/Manny outside San Quentin to be with their brother. Liz: I defend people on death row. I'm in a hearing in federal court trying to get a conviction and death sentence thrown out. It is very demanding work but I love it. The hearing is going well. I was not at the Texas conference but know many death row attys there. The lawyers who defend people on death row in the south are my heroes and heroines. I could not practice there. Back in touch Thursday or Friday.. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 23:03:31 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Nil Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: Hi, I just wanted to respond to your post which has gone inactive, so I brought it to the top. You said: Their thing was following premie women, saying nasty things to them, and generally terrorising them. Believe me, I took those kinds of things very seriously when it was my watch, and I know others did too. I never had to deal with children. If you think it's easy dealing with such matters, look at the trouble the professional, political, and law enforcement groups have in the community you live in. Now, realise how a complete novice who is a volunteer feels when faced with a situation like this. After all is said, everyone has the right to feel safe. When I was coordinator, that was something I took very seriously. And I had to deal with the very real fear for my life. Of course, we all deal with such things differently. First, thanks for responding so honestly. Secondly, I am sorry that you didn't receive any kind of training or orientation to deal with the kinds of issues that came up, like this one. But I have to wonder why some of the money which went to the organization did not cover training volunteers for what to expect and how they might handle it. I imagine holy name took care of it all. Sort of. Thirdly, I wonder if these creeps were premies, aspirants or just lurkers? I knew some guys who hung out at the satsang hall because they thought premie women were 'easy.' Sad to say, but that is what they said. On the other hand, if these guys you knew were premies or real aspirants, it's horrible! How could someone with k behave in such a way to anyone, especially sisters? And last, but not least, thanks for offering protection to innocents and figuring a way to help even without having had the benefit of training. Sincerely, Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 06:44:10 (EDT)
From: Catweasel Email: the 'OTHER SIDE' To: Victoria Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: Well you'd be happy to know thorough professional training now occurs.THINGS CHANGE Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 08:40:51 (EDT)
From: Nim Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: Well you'd be happy to know thorough professional training now occurs.THINGS CHANGE When it comes to your dirty little cult, the only kind of change possible is the kind of which, one can truly say; 'The more things change, the more they stay the same.' I imagine that with the professional training you claim above, you guys will be more 'professional' in sweeping real problems under the carpet. Deep change. Very profound. And thanks for the laugh. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 09:35:38 (EDT)
From: catweasel Email: yesterday To: Nim Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: Dear Dim,your the one with the cult .You've carried it with you where ever you go.Its a free world,people are entitled to do whatever they want!Its not my Cult,as far as I'm concerned its a figment of your imagination.I lead a normal life,run a very successful business and enjoy most things I do.That includes things you obviously dont like. Cest la vie,who cares.My point was that there have been some very potent changes recently,and if your not aware of them your going to look like a complete Dickhead if you keep up your tirade going about aspects of the interaction between M and those who choose to listen to him.Get your spys active your behind the game Maxwell!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 10:03:26 (EDT)
From: Nim Email: None To: catweasel Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: .My point was that there have been some very potent changes recently,and if your not aware of them your going to look like a complete Dickhead if you keep up your tirade going about aspects of the interaction between M and those who choose to listen to him.Get your spys active your behind the game Maxwell!!! My spies have been active. They've told me about the recycling of Ira Woods as an instructor. Is that the kind of 'potent' change you're talking about? Is it the snazzy but totally superficial websites that m has for himself and elan vital? Is it the slashing of video prices because nobody really wants them anymore, confirming the highway robbery that m and his people have been getting away with over the last 10 years in charging exhorbitant prices for his propaganda materials? Is it m's spamming of the search engines, displaying for all the world to see what a pathetic little child he still is? If you guys were a tavern, you'd be serving all beer and no foam. Instead, you're a cult...so you serve up the illusion of 'potent change' in your god forsaken little world. The only thing thats still potent in m's world is the extent of the dementia that still exists. Otherwise your cult's going down...and you guys are getting desperate. That's pretty obvious. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 10:24:07 (EDT)
From: dv Email: None To: Nim Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: There is a new 'project' being presented to p's this weekend concerning a 'new' propagation effort. Can you activate your spy cells and get a report? I'd sneak in, but it's too long a drive. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 10:33:30 (EDT)
From: Nim Email: None To: dv Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: Thanks for the info dv. I'm up here in Canada, so stuff like that usually happens here a few weeks later than in the States, but I'll keep my eyes and ears open. I'll be curious to say the least, what this 'new propagation' effort is all about. I wonder if m is going to retract another one of his positions, and finally get into some advertising. If so, I believe that every action should be met by an equal and opposite reaction. In any case, we'll find out soon enough. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 06:45:52 (EDT)
From: catweasel Email: WHO CARES???? To: Nim Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: None of the above Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 10:55:18 (EDT)
From: Blue Bird Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: Hey Cat, Does Dettmers consulting firm do your security training? My guess on what's happenin is the Org now relys on selling the videos via the net and runs a credit check. If an individual doesn't have a credit card they are SOL and better off for it. Then again, EV, can always get into the electronic mailing list business;-) How's Peter Friedli doing? It's been a bit quite a trip since PURUS Inc. .... Oui or Non? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 06:55:40 (EDT)
From: CATWEASEL Email: gone and forgotten To: Blue Bird Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: What a joke!!No yanks,your all too scewed up.Personally as you can buy anything from a fuck to a Funeral on-line ,what be the big deal??BUT NO THATS NOT IT AND YOU ALL KNOW CURIOSITY KILLED THE CAT; FIND OUT YOURSELVES!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 08:04:43 (EDT)
From: Blue Bird Email: None To: CATWEASEL Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: Ahh, you can buy anything. Fuck to funeral... you would know! Oui! And our friend Peter Friedli.... You thought all your bases were covered n'est pas? You thought you could walk away? N'es pas? You left much of your litter little kitty. Oui, Herr Cat.... curiosity... perchance you choke on a hairball? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 08:23:57 (EDT)
From: catweasel Email: Goshawk To: Blue Bird Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: dear bluebird I'm not who you think.So your no doubt very witty post is lost on me.and its not a furball,its a throat full of blue feathers!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 09:19:46 (EDT)
From: Blue Bird Email: None To: catweasel Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: Alors! I know who I refer to. You.... you are simply someone who must buy a fuck. I have more than you and never had to pay! Ask the golden goose, she would know. You make us laugh as we romp! Good little kitty... Mon Dieu... 1972 a long time for a pussycat. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 12:13:58 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: CATWEASEL Subject: **** Best of Forum ***** Message: Hey Roger, Don't you just love this lads line 'from a fuck to a funeral'? Oh and let's not forget he did the ole premie braggin trip of, 'Nanny, Nanny, Boo, Boo, I've had Knowledge since seventy two'! Just another has been. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 14:18:39 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek Email: None To: Mary M Subject: You Bet *** Best of Forum **** Message: Roger's House of Maharaji Drek has immortalized this series of posts between Bluebird and the feral Catweasel in the Best of the Forum. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 06:06:08 (EDT)
From: catweasel Email: Natural born losers To: Mary M Subject: **** Best of Forum ***** Message: Didnt say I had knowledge from 1972,did I?????. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 16:12:17 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: catweasel Subject: **** Best of Forum ***** Message: Hey Cat, Not sure, maybe you said you've been around since 72. One of the minimum wage weasel why-ters said it. Hmmmm multiple personalities .... was it the cat or the weasal or the raw-rat that's been scooting around the wheel in your cage of a brain? But if the cat eats the raw-rat then we end up in that golden showers thread again. I don't go for that.... oh, oh, no;-) I betcha you could make more .... just follow Linda out the door! x/3 M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 13:42:58 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: catweasel: The inividuals involved in security are still in the position of total responsibility and no authority. They are weekend warriors trying to help but to characterize their training as professional is ridiculous. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 07:03:40 (EDT)
From: catweasel Email: Yesterdays Heroes To: Zac Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: Just security??Where did you get that idea??And in any case we dont even have 'security' here anymore.Light years away from reality but then thats your nice safe postion ,keep recycling 20 year old garbage.Have you watched any seventies Television lately??Dated isnt it! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 11:27:22 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: catweasel Subject: Moral blind spot Message: weasel, Why do you mention the fact that 'these things' happened twenty years ago? What difference does that make? Are you saying that somehow, during the intervening years, Maharaji's accountability somehow evaporated? That if you wait long enough you never have to answer for anything? What's your point? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 11:56:35 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: catweasel Subject: 20-year-old garbage Message: Cat, You said it! It was garbage then and it is still garbage. 'Try it, you'll like it!' Maharaji said (a line stolen from tv advertising, by the way). It was supposed to be timeless, eternal, a peace that will never die, blah, blah, blah. Maharaji is a liar, a con man. The fact that the names of things have changed doesn't change what the things are...brainwashing is still brainwashing whether you call it a program, a festival or an event. What is 'security' called now? What does the training consist of? If you don't have security anymore, then why are you being provided with 'professional training' for it? These are just questions, they sound a little silly, don't they? This is not a joke, but it sounds a little funny, doesn't it? Love, Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 06:20:48 (EDT)
From: catweasel Email: I'll put words in your mouth To: Victoria Subject: 20-year-old garbage Message: Your assumptions are that 'the training'refered to was something you call security.As some of the more offensive interlopers have found out ,the police are more than happy to provide their services when required,on a simple basis of law.If youre so aggrieved and righteous why havent you Litigated??? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 09:29:28 (EDT)
From: Blue Bird Email: None To: catweasel Subject: 20-year-old garbage Message: Oh Cat, And you? Are you 27 years of garbage? I am meeting with Suisse friends today! Mon Dieu... stay tuned. Rose she is funny. Oui Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 15:49:30 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek Email: None To: catweasel Subject: No Security? Come on! Message: Weasel, I cannot say much about what's happening in Australia, but to say that there is no security is simply unbelievable. And you say that we're out of touch? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 06:47:11 (EDT)
From: catweasel Email: to knowall To: Roger E. Drek Subject: No Security? Come on! Message: How would you know ,do you keep going back just to 'Keep up to date'??? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 18:07:00 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: None To: catweasel Subject: That's false Catweasel Message: Don't have security anymore? That's even more ridiculous. I know it and you know there are premies pretending to guard Maharaji and premies at programs. Are you saying they recently changed the name? Okay I'm game what do they call security at EV now? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 06:51:00 (EDT)
From: Catweasel Email: Billy notSilly To: Zac Subject: That's false Catweasel Message: Why dont you drop in for yourself and find out??With your attitudes youd be good crash test Dummies Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 07:41:38 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: Catweasel is now acting too Message: Stupid to bother responding to her posts! FYI Somewhere deep in the recesses of your mind is the person you were before you became 'The M toting Catweasel' So they are calling security 'special ushers' now, BFD. It's the same people standing in the same places and who cares anyway. Your remindng me of Tami Shunshine Rainbow 'cept she's a little smarter and funnier and has bigger breasts. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 08:17:29 (EDT)
From: catweasel Email: None To: Zac Subject: Catweasel is now acting too Message: Heres a Question!What if you knew more than I do??You care ,I dont.If you were half as smart as you make out you might have worked out just what your really dealing with.P>SYour wrong Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 20:27:00 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: None To: catweasel Subject: Share your secret with me CW Message: 'Cat weasel' You feel guilty about posting. I don't think you've been around since '72. Your language and attitude is much too young. 'You care, I don't.' Your irresponsible. Probably don't have a job or much of one. 'worked out just what your dealing with.' You feel you are in a priviledged or powerful position. 'P>S your wrong' Even if I hit the nail on the head you'll deny it. What do you want? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 04:07:57 (EDT)
From: Catweasel Email: Onthe bread-line To: Zac Subject: Share your secret with me CW Message: Your incorrect on all counts.In 1972 Paddy was the medium.I am a successful corporate business person ,with assets and a lifestyle to match.Probably thats why I dont care what you think.I attended various early events,but never got sucked in by the Politics of the hierachy,unlike you lot. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 07:24:50 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: So you know M is a master Message: Manipulator who puts his assets in others names and controls them from afar then tells his followers that they should ignore their problems cause thats what he does. Of course someone else is burdened with that problem of his but hey 'who cares'. This is the person whose feet 'ass' you kiss? Am I getting closer? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 12:04:23 (EDT)
From: Catweasel Email: Lets cut the Crap To: Zac Subject: M is my Master Message: No Zac thats who you think the person whose feet I kiss is. To me he is my teacher and my master because unlike you I kept listening to him and so I kept learning.What I learnt is the difference between you and me.For me its been a very pleasant journey and all the things that hang you up like money and what other premies have or havent done doesnt really concern me.I'm happy ,I've got a nice life with every thing I want.Your pain does concern me but only you can change that. 'Even in your darkest hour I will not abandon you'You walked so wear it.As he said in malaysia ,'the Door is always open,no-one will stop you leaving and no-one will stop you coming back again'You may not find that appealing but I do.I think alot of stuff you blame M for was the result of People taking on board roles and responsibilities they were never given by M. Thats why he took control and it doesnt seem that many of you over here really understand just how things really happen in his domain Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 14:39:30 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: Okay! Message: Your right I don't understand how or why things happen in his domain. And frankly I don't care. I've seen the results of what can only be described as gross mismanagement. I walked because being a puppet wasn't any fun anymore. M's money doesn't bother me. It's fraudulent extraction from my and others pockets does. Have I ever mentioned pain? Your the one who is pissed at the free expression of facts on this website. Your perfect little M world is being revealed 'as it is'. It hurts, you don't like it and there is nothing you can do about it. Now when you want to tell someone about your special experience your worried they'll find this page and likely think your a fool. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 15:08:40 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek Email: None To: Zac Subject: Soon ***Best of Forum*** Message: Well said! Very interesting point: Now when you want to tell someone about your special experience your worried they'll find this page and likely think your a fool. . Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 06, 1999 at 07:00:02 (EDT)
From: the illustrious Catweasel Email: your totally predictable To: Zac Subject: Okay! Message: Well Zac You keep right on being the true believer you really are and have always hankered to be.This site is actually totally irrelevant and if it wasnt for those of you that 'keep the faith ' it would collapse overnight.Oh and the premies who come over here and stir the possum!! Its the worst kind of dogma-totally baseless inuendo.Like reading a laxative label over and over again. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 06, 1999 at 07:29:55 (EDT)
From: Zac Email: Ma and Pa To: the illustrious Catweasel Subject: Pot calls Kettle black Message: if it wasn't for those of you that 'keep the faith' it would collapse overnight. I guess we are at odds. I'll call it a draw. You go back to heaven and I'll stay here in hell warming by the fire. Ciao. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 19:14:27 (EDT)
From: dv Email: None To: catweasel Subject: Whaddya mean no secuirty? Message: M has plenty of security- what are you inhaling? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 06:52:54 (EDT)
From: catweasel Email: MY,MY,MY> To: dv Subject: Whaddya mean no secuirty? Message: Does he?? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 14:56:20 (EDT)
From: Reality Check Email: None To: catweasel Subject: weasel - you're incoherent Message: Hey, weasel! How appropriate is your handle! Your posts are inconsistent and incoherent. I imagine that you think that you are one heck of a wiseguy playing your little lying game with us, huh? Do they pay you for this or what? And you are the example of the benefits of Maharaji's Knowledge? Run, run away from Maharaji's Knowledge or you'll end up like this guy, completely deluded. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 04:13:13 (EDT)
From: Catweasel Email: Parallel Veiw To: Reality Check Subject: weasel - you're incoherent Message: Oh my God ,not achallenge to our structured ordered view of things as we know them!!!!OH MY GOOOOOOOD!!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 19:58:27 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: catweasel Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: Cat, I'm glad you say there is no security. You have just negated all of NIL's posts on Jagdeo and Raphael (the pedophiles we are aware of) and his insistance that security watches out for dangerous individuals. Now where does this leave King Maya's esteemed usherette Jim Barass? Maybe you can get him in with the royal eunuchs! Surely, The Lord of Maya and his maya-ettes have security! I can't imagine him allowing anyone to get near the maya-ettes aka wahadamar inc. And Mama Maya.... now we know he doesn't want any of you guys around her. Unless, of course, one has been neutered thereby rendering his servant to the role of faithful eunuch of the royal harem. If you stop letting on that your into sex on the net you might move up and obtain the coveted role of 'official eunuch of the pasties'. BTW: Does Monica really wear ones made from the Lord of Maya's recycled Krishna costumes? Maybe not. I bet she's the one who got that nice and sparkly purple Barbie Doll outfit! Mama Mia ....... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 06:56:51 (EDT)
From: catweasel Email: YOUR PAST IT MARY M To: Mary M Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: Dreaming Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 11:15:30 (EDT)
From: Catweasel Email: mary motormouth To: Mary M Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: I just love words they mean so much!!Security whats that??Bet youd all love to know whats happening now?Well we're civilised, we're not doing anything wrong and the law will protect us.You've got no evidence of what you claim and if I lived in the U.S,I'd sue you for libel so quickly it wouldnt be funny.As a matter of fact if any -one wants to sue youI'd happily contribute. Cheap shots Mary.m, but we come to expect that from you.I guess its just your over whelming desire to feature in'Best of Forum 'which is a bit like cracking a mention in Xavier Hollanders book.I'm speaking of your unauthenticated claims about Jag and his friend.The main reason I probably wouldnt bother is my hunch is probably the only thing you own is your P.C. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 19:40:32 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: Voir Dire Message: Good Evening Cat, As my dear grandmother Nellie would say, 'Your man doesn't even have a pot to piss in!' ... I really did find it odd that there were no bathrooms at the Malibu Estate. How did SEVA hide them from the Tax Assessor? Number of Bathrooms: 0 Number of Half Baths: 0 Owner Name: SEVA CORPORATION OF AMERICA Anyway, I digress. I thought you'd like Bob Mishler's comments about my unauthenticated claims: Host: There were rumors, and I don't know whether these rumors were based on any kind of fact or not, that he took advantage of several young women who were members of the Divine Light Mission, because of his position. To your knowledge, is any of that true? Bob: No, to my knowledge, that's not true. Although it was true that a number of his Mahatmas did that, and we had a number of problems with some of the Mahatmas on that level, I am not aware of Maharaji taking advantage of women followers. Interesting, don't you think? if I lived in the U.S,I'd sue you for libel so quickly it wouldnt be funny... I think it would be hilarious. Shoot we could have an x/3 party at the court house. I'm speaking of your unauthenticated claims about Jag and his friend. As I stated in another post concerning myself, I listen to constructive criticism. I know of one person I hurt and another I've embarrassed by method of addressing this issue. I've said enough and prefer to approach this issue in a way that is conducive to the well-being of the children affected, the ex-premies on this site affected, as well as concerned premies that are lurking. The main reason I probably wouldnt bother is my hunch is probably the only thing you own is your P.C. HA - the card trick did work! Your comment does not surprise me considering the tenets you hold true. I'm not as much into maya as your Lord of Maya is. Why sue though Cat? You did say you can buy anything from a 'fock to a funeral'. Now, I think the polite thing for you and your master to do is thank me for sewing many of Premlata's 'elegant' Barbie Doll outfits, an heirloom gold watch of my grandmothers, and the $$$ given to a certain company for purchase of the lots around the original Malibu residence. Could you find out how much of the land is mine? I want to have a beach party with the X/3 club there. We might let M come but he'll need to get written permission from the president of the corporation that owns it. As far as Roger Drek, now there's a lad with a sense of humor and I fully expect him to do a bit of a jig at herself's Irish wake should you or your master decide to buy me a fock and a funeral! Mary M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 06, 1999 at 07:33:37 (EDT)
From: Catweasel Email: Au revoir To: Mary M Subject: Voir Dire Message: Maybe your jest focked before your funeral.My guess is that its the sort of thing might amuse you before the big chill.As for your indigenous native title land claim perhaps youd be better off putting a bid with Charlie and his Uncle Lord Mountbatten for some of the Emerald sod back from those Pommie bastards!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, May 06, 1999 at 08:38:58 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: Voir Dire Message: Yer up early eh lad? I'm through wi ye pussy. Yev let us know yer 'successful' and I don't bother with neutered, declawed kitties. What a thankless task ye have... the x/3 kitty monitor! Yer a good little kitty to the Mastur you must Abate. I'm sure he'll give you lots of brownie points. Jest don't be pickin that brown nose and leavin his stench around here! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 12:25:29 (EDT)
From: Florida Skunk Ape Email: None To: Mary M Subject: To Nil from Inactive Message: You have just negated all of NIL's posts on Jagdeo and Raphael (the pedophiles we are aware of) Hey. I thought Parlokanand diddled little boys. Is this not true? Anyone? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 19:49:38 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Nil Subject: Apology to Nil Message: Nil, I noticed that you stopped posting on the ex forum. I hope you are okay. I meant it when I thanked you for protecting the premie women from those guys. Whenever I have been hassled by guys, I am always grateful for intervention and support from friends, strangers, cops -- whoever! And I’m sure that the premie women involved felt gratitude also. I am very fond of Roger Drek, although I don’t know much about him other than what I see on the internet. On the other hand, I don’t really think it is a fair representation of our conversation as posted in the ***Best of The Forum*** and I wish he would reconsider this entry. I, myself, voted twice...once I gave it a 5 since my name was on it (I have secretly hoped to merit a 'Best Of' entry) and the other time I gave it a 1 (since I felt 'used' -- in a way - to discredit you, Nil). Perhaps I sound like some sort of 'apologist' (well I am apologizing, after all) but I really feel that there is plenty of material which is pretty damning to M and his whole trip without having to, sort of, trap premies into saying things that sound bad and then taking those statements out of context. Anyway, let me know if you want to e-mail about it (I’ll give you mine if you give me yours). Love, Victoria P.S. to Roger...I really like the House of Drek all in all, it just this one bit that didn’t seem fair to me and since it involved me, well, there you have it. I think Nil really came clean in the end, what Nil said about helping the premie women who were being hassled, despite fearing for his life and also he said that everyone deserved to feel safe...I think that was part of the whole exchange and I’m sorry if Nil doesn’t feel safe at the Ex forum anymore...that is, safe enough to express himself other than just namecalling back and forth with exes. peace. P.P.S. to Katie...I looked for this exchange in the Inactive Index and in the Archives, but couldn't find it...is it me or is it somehow in limbo now on the way to the Archives? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 22:48:55 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Premie Forum & Me Message: I can hardly believe what is happening to me! Wm invited me to post at the premie forum and CATweasel and Xan had something to do with it, too. Now there is even a thread with my name on it. I just feel kind of funny posting over there...I don't feel free to express myself. Admittedly, these feelings are my own, nobody chastised me over there. But the fact is, I am an Ex-premie. I have zero interest in returning to the lotus feet or finding new lotus feet to turn to. Most recently, when the question came up, I described myself as Agnostic, that is to say, I don't know. I have premie friends, but we don't communicate that often and when we do...we don't talk much about the cult. Sometimes I wonder if my premie friends read this forum, but I still post whatever I want to post because it is the EX forum, not the premie forum, not my living room. In my living room, I am more respectful of my friends' beliefs...I just disagree and change the subject, which is pretty much how they handle my comments as well. I'm stepping back to examine the situation and I don't like how it feels. Where do you draw the line between being respectful of others' beliefs and compromising your own? I don't want to feel like I used to feel when I was SHOUTING OUT ON THE STREETS about Maharaji...you know, like I told them whatever they were ready to hear and left the rest for later. See ya (not on the premie forum, for now anyway) Love, Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 00:37:29 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Victoria Subject: Premie Forum & Me Message: Hi Victoria, At least you're simply 'agnostic'. My sister told me her husband is an 'apathetic agnostic'.... he doesn't know and he doesn't care;-) Luv, Mary M Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 11:59:57 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Mary M Subject: What is the difference between Message: Ignorance and Apathy? (This is my favorite joke of all time.) 'I don't know' is only half right. I don't know and I don't care! Love, victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 12:17:59 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Victoria Subject: What is the difference between Message: Pussy Cat and Null and Xantac? I don't know and I don't care ;-) xo, Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 13:46:06 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Mary M Subject: You forgot one Message: Wm's okay, though, huh? He wrote in the other forum that he felt like a spider and I was composing this long thing in my head, imagining that I was Little Miss Muffett at the parade of the Emporer and His New Clothes! But, alas, it's true. He didn't invite me to the other forum...I asked for the URL and he gave it to me. It was Catweasel inviting Wm to the other forum and silly me, I thought we were ALL ONE! But, seriously, I kind of like Wm and his wall jokes and all. =) Love, victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 14:49:08 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Victoria Subject: Wm is a nice guy (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 12:07:59 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Death of 'Spoon' Message: I am no longer receiving email on my old 'spoon' account. Say good-bye to 'My World-class Online Home' ! Please update your email address books to only send me email via brian@ex-premie.org. Mail sent to my old account will be bouncing back to you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 11:56:23 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: White Pages updates Message: I've gotten the backlog of updated and new White Pages entries online finally. For those who thought they'd never see their entries online, Sorry about the delay. I you have an entry, be sure to check it for errors and any information that needs updating. You can submit a new or revised entry via this form. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 06:23:29 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: Everyone Subject: Where we went wrong Message: East does not mix with West. The Eastern philosophies of Hinduism and Buddism which gurus expound are based on a primative culture and philosophy which is totally alien to the culture and philosophy we have developed in the West. People mistakenly believe that because Hinduism and Buddism are ancient, they must have some superior wisdom. Yet if you look closely, that wisdom has achieved nothing and is not really wisdom at all but is just primative ignorance. The Eastern mind thinks it is right and that we are wrong. That is the crux of the matter. But what has the Eastern mind achieved? Countries where Hinduism and Buddism are practised are mainly underdeveloped. Their philosophy of non attatchment and disregard for this world achieves nothing. There are as many wars and divisions in these countries as there are anywhere in the world and there is cruelty and brutality in such countries, in spades. If you compare East with West then it is clear to see that Western culture has achieved more in making the world a better place. There are fairer and more compassionate societies in the West than in Eastern countries. More tolerance and more desire for reparation amongst Western societies than in Eastern Societies. Why do people get tricked into believing the gurus from the East? We don't have to listen to these buffoons! I have another translation for the word 'guru'. The correct translation is 'hypocrite'. The Eastern gurus who come to the West are often more obsessed with material wealth than we Westerners and yet they preach non attatchment to such things as their means of getting devotees. They talk of love and yet they are incapable of loving those who are closest to them. Maharaji is just a very good example of an Eastern guru coming to the West to make his fortune. A very good example of a hypocrite. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 06:54:49 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Sir David Subject: Where we went wrong Message: Dear David, I had never thought of it that way and it is a very good argument, my only remaining 'ponderance' is that I view a lot of what Western society has 'accomplished' to be directly responsible for the eventual distruction of our planet. Animals do not usually 'soil' thier living quarters, well for humans that can be our homes but on a larger scale the earth. I listened to a geography/planning prof go on about how when he was a planner in Baltimore, the garbage and other toxins were dumped in the ocean and that it was OK as long as it was far enough away from the shore line. I blew up, stood up and raised my voice shouting that because all countries did this (and some like Russia before it all split up, I don't know about now, was dumping raw nuclear waste into the water, turning the river valley into a series of ghost towns except the one or 2 they didn't tell for experimental reasons) that it would become more and more of a percentage of posions in the ocean and it is big, huge but it moves as if alive and churns and mixes over years or hundreds of year and there is no more 'clean' water near the shores. I could go on here, mentioning white man's obsession to his worth , comfort and convenience(sp) over everyother type of human being and animal) but it seems that people never really respond when I mention this stuff so I'll stop now but I just don't see Western society as all that great although the point you made about the differences were valid. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 07:40:17 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Where we went wrong Message: You're right but I think we have to realise that the West is such a poluter because it is developed. As the Third World becomes developed, so they cause polution too. I think it's only because Eastern Countries are underdeveloped that they cause less polution. Given the chance, they'd be as bad as us. But we are slowly trying to do something about it. We are concentrating on the job in hand, this planet. Eastern philosphies would say be detatched whereas Western philosophy says get in there! Hindus might be kind to cows but they are cruel to women. Now I have to go to that bastion of Western civilisation, 'Toys R Us'. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 08:04:58 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Where we went wrong Message: This is one thing that started to put the brakes on my involvement with M. All focus was on the self and feeling good. Thats ok , but then the feel good needs to go out into the world. At the risk of sounding religious, this seems to be the basic difference between hindu and christian Nice to see it brought up on the forum Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 10:01:59 (EDT)
From: Bill Cooper Email: None To: all Subject: Where we went wrong Message: Hi Sir David, Your comment reminded me of a book I read a long time back by Koestler called ( I think ) the robot and the machine. The trouble in the west is that we are victims of our success. Science has delivered in spades. For example ddt that terrible pesticide, was only terrible because it was used so extensively, and it persisted in the food chain. At the time it was a god send ( sic ). It cured great areas of malaria and made possible fruit growing in the Americas. All of this from the simple philosophy of empiricism Now is not the time to throw out the baby with the bathwater. We need to look at our problems, and we have lots through the eyes of science if we are to have any future. While I was having breakfast this morning my eldest had video hits on tv and i listened to a boyzone record. The lyrics said No matter what they teach us, what you believe is true. This seemed to me so much of the dilemma of child to adult and east versus west. Belief means nothing, only what can we prove, of the rest we must remain silent. PS Fuck Maharaji |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 15:43:01 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Sir Dave Subject: Where we went wrong Message: Dear Dave, 'Now I have to go to that bastion of Western civilisation, 'Toys R Us'.' This had me laughing out loud! So with all our differences, America and England you have OUR 'Toys R Us', I love it but I have to say that the bastion of Western civilisation is really WalMart! :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 15:47:23 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Sir Dave Subject: Where we went wrong I forgot Message: Shit I totally forgot to reply to the serious part of your post! You are right, now that we are starting to try to do something the 3rd world and others are not getting in line to save the earth but are saying they deserve their time of pollution so they can boost their economies the way we did without the expense of being environmentally conscience. I do have a bad attitude about the way we as a global community are tackling this problem, to little to late, hope I am wrong. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 14:38:44 (EDT)
From: Denise Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Where we went wrong Message: Sir David, You need to read The Tao of Physics and maybe you'll change your mind about Eastern philosophy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 15:29:10 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Denise Subject: The Tao of Physics? Message: Denise, This book made quite an impression on us 'searchers' 30 years ago but it really is nonsense. Well, anyway, that's what it looks like to me. But tell me, what arguments or theories in it do you find compelling? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 20:51:27 (EDT)
From: Denise Email: None To: Jim Subject: The Tao of Physics? Message: Jim, It's been about ten years since I read it in entirely so I don't have a clear recollection at this point, though I it made a strong impression on me. I thought it was written just about 12-14 years ago. Could you be thinking of The Tao of Pooh? (Another good one, but actually I'm just joking). Seriously, the author obviously embraces Eastern philosophy and his comparison to the latest findings in physics was intriguing, though that could be because I also prefer Eastern to Western thought. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 21:29:12 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Denise Subject: The Tao of Physics? Message: Denise, Here's the URL for a recent Skeptical Inquirer article about how new-age mysticism has fallaciously siezed on quantum mechanics as proof of whatever it is they're trying to say. Capra's 1975 book apparently started the whole thing: http://www.csicop.org/si/9701/quantum-quackery.html Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 21:12:18 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Denise Subject: Sod Eastern Philosophy Message: I don't need it. It never did me one iota of good and I find it all totally inhuman and alien to my way of being. These days I prefer my own philosophy. Why do we need to read about someone elses? I had the whole of the seventies having Eastern Philosophy rammed down my throat and none of it did me any good. Now I have a massive aversion to it. The best person to guide you through your own life is yourself. I believe it's a fallacy that there is a WAY or some sort of universal path. I've met Hindus and Buddists and Whirling Dervishes and they're just human like me and anyone who claims to have the answer for everybody (or anybody) has been deluded or brainwashed. Strangely enough, Denise, my times actually practising meditation or yoga has shown me that very clearly. Because I realised that such things were totally personal and individual and it is a nonsense to make them into a philosophy or a religion. Would you make a religion out of having a bath? The Radox bath salts way to enlightenment? There's ample opportunity for endless mumbo jumbo which people can read, spout or make rules and religions about. But in the end all it does is fill the mind full of crap which is worse than useless and totally impractical. Pragmatism rules, in my book. That is the one true way for me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 02:05:41 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Buddha's delight=tofu/veggies Message: Sir David, I beg to differ with regard to your remarks about east and west not being compatible. There is 'good and bad' in both, and it is for the discerning person to choose those attributes from each that is beneficial and incorporate them into their life. Whatever floats your mahayana or hinayana. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 06:18:10 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Shp Subject: Give me stomach ache Message: That awful rubber stuff they call tofu, ugh! And if I eat too many vegetables I get stomach ache. Now I'm not against meditation and yoga but it is not an Eastern thing and the sooner all the Eastern crap is divorced from it, the better. The Indians have built up a massive religion and within it they have incorporated some yoga methods. But these methods have got nothing to do with all the fairy tales which they spout. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 11:03:03 (EDT)
From: Denise Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Divorcing Message: Sir Dave, (My son is Sir Brandon, he was knighted on his 6th birthday at Midevil Times!) Anyway, I'm now going through the process of what aspects of Eastern thought I want to divorce and to which I will remain wedded. Meditation and reincarnation (as much as M denies it) are the two keepers so far for me. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 14:11:56 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: Denise Subject: Divorcing Message: Meditation as a means to attain god realization should go out the window. Feeling your breath as a means to feel your breath can stay. I doubt if you could agree with the dogma that goes with eastern reincarnation thought. You may think we have a chance at returning, that is one thing, but the explainations that go with it have some big holes in it. By the way, if you love life, that has absolutely no standing in eastern dogma. You are attached to the maya. In addition you are a woman, buddha thought that a woman had no chance of attaining god head status and it took a lot of talking by his companions to get him to relent-a little. Hindu men would have no part of this talk with you. lowly woman. get to your cooking. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 14:25:05 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: bb Subject: Offensive joke Message: Why did the woman cross the road? Because the chain that tied her to the kitchen sink was too long. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 15:03:52 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Sir Dave Subject: Inoffensive joke Message: Right, since it's a slow day on the forum, and the subject of jokes has come up, I thought you all might like this one I heard which, for some mysterious reason, completely cracks me up every time I remember it: A man goes into a pet shop and says: ' I'd like to buy a wasp'. The pet shop owner says: 'I'm sorry sir, we do not sell wasps. We have monkeys, parrots... we'll even do you a bleedin' anaconda, but I cannot sell you a wasp...' Customer: 'That's funny - you had one in the window yesterday...' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 17:38:56 (EDT)
From: Denise Email: None To: bb Subject: I am a worthy woman because Message: I produced two strong healthy boys for my husband to be proud of. To a Hindu man, producing only boys is very important and the sign of a good wife. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 22:51:43 (EDT)
From: Xan Email: None To: bb Subject: Divorcing Message: I learned from a biography of the Buddha that what it actually took for him to accept women as students was the insistence of some of his female relatives. They would not take no for an answer. 'Eastern dogma' is biting off an awefully big chunk, bb. There are so many religions, branches and sects in the East. Who ever said that seeing maya for what it is means you don't enjoy life? Define enjoy. Xan Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 23:44:47 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com To: Xan Subject: Your own words say it Message: The very fact that you are using Hindu concepts and terms such as 'Maya' with the belief that such concepts are true does mean that you, as a follower of Maharaji, have embraced these concepts. Maharaji has taught you these concepts. You didn't figure them out on your own. My point is this: These are only Hindu concepts which have been force-fed by Maharaji and other Indian people. They are meaningless and they have no value. Nobody ever lives outside of the thing Hindus ridicule as 'maya'. It is impossible and inhuman to try to live outside or not be a part of it. I have discovered that such a thing as 'maya' does not exist. The concept is an illusion in itself. The world is NOT an illusion. It is very real. Trying to deny that fact can lead to immense trouble. People and events in our lives are not an illusion and should be taken seriously and treated with due reverence and respect. What a person feels if they meditate is not the ultimate truth which they can hide away in. You have to face the world and the stark reality of it, both the joy and the sorrow, the pleasure and the pain. No premie and certainly not Maharaji has ever lived beyond the joys and sorrows of the world and our life in it. To pretend otherwise is a fantasy. Time to face facts and face the world and our life. Something like meditation can certainly enhance things for some people but can it provide for all of life's needs and hopes and aspirations? Of course not. If someone you love is in trouble; do you care about meditation then? Do you still hold onto the concept of the world being illusion? Or are you brought back down to earth and to the true reality which we all live with? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 01:26:25 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Sir David Subject: Very well said, Sir D (nt) Message: Ditto to all of it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 04:07:12 (EDT)
From: Xan Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Your own words Message: My definition of maya is, what you think you are is not the truth of what you are. I never heard M. say that. Awakening from illusion is not about meditation or withdrawal from the world. It's about present awareness. Xan Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 06:28:44 (EDT)
From: Sir David Email: None To: Xan Subject: Your own words Message: You are talking in riddles. We all have present awarness and what we are depends upon our own viewpoint. I would say that everything which you have perceived yourself to be has been what you have thought yourself to be. You cannot get away from it since it is you who are doing the perceiving. If you are talking about different states of mind which have been brought about through meditation; then the above is still true because you are still thinking that you are that state of mind. To illustrate this; if you are hanging by your finger tips from the top of a sky scraper, your main feeling is going to be one of fear. That will be the most real present awarness. If someone saves you and pulls you to safety then your next present awarness will be gratitude. These awarnesses are just as real and relevant as anything you may experience through meditation. Saying that you are something different to what you are is denying your present awarness as being true or relevant. It's all relevant in my view and I cannot take one part and say it's more true. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 04:57:32 (EDT)
From: Xan Email: None To: Sir David Subject: Your own words Message: We all have perceptual awareness which depends on our viewpoint which depends on the accumulation of memory. That's a perceived identity. I am talking about silent awareness which does not depend on viewpoint, memory, perception or identity, or on meditation. From perception there is a slight shift of attention to wholeness. Xan Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 06:54:13 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Xan Subject: Hey, are you Keith? Message: Way back in 1972 we used to sing this little song with the Anand Band: You are not your body, you are not your mind, You are really something lying far behind, Immortality is just a step away, So find the perfect master, seek him out today. We love you Guru Maraji, we love you Guru Maraji etc etc. Meaningless words to a fantasy. But you intrigue me. If you don't perceive this thing by doing meditation or by thinking then how DO you yourself do it? Chanting perhaps? Anyone who has meditated, and most of us here have, will know that there's other experiences and states of mind which can be got from meditating. But they are physical states of mind. I don't know what you're into but it's obviously some other guru. My experience from different states achieved from meditation, have shown me that our senses or awarness can be expanded. But this illusion thing, I cannot buy. It's trite, it doesn't mean anything and it gets us nowhere. Not only that, it's negative. It supposes that you're not the ticket. My own experience has shown me that we are the ticket, we're just fine as we are and while there's always room for improvement the one thing which is missing in your Hindu/Buddist way of thinking (and it is thinking) is the perception of human relationships. You find out who you are and reach your full potential on this earth by mixing it with ones fellow humans. Relationships and how we affect other people's lives is probably the most important truth which we can know. And I've got that on good authority. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 11:20:55 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Xan Subject: Your own languge Message: My definition of maya is, what you think you are is not the truth of what you are. I never heard M. say that. Xan, You're such a typical new-age wannabe wise guy. There you go again, fucking with language just so you can make it fit where it really doesn't and come off as an expert 'translator' all at the same time. Xan, this game is old! Do you have any idea how many of us played it out 'til we were exhausted and, frankly, embarrassed by it all? What's with you? Don't you have an friends or something? Awakening from illusion is not about meditation or withdrawal from the world. It's about present awareness. Yawn!!!! Xan Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 05:13:25 (EDT)
From: Xan Email: None To: Jim Subject: Your own languge Message: The word 'maya' means illusion. Some Hindu teachings describe the world as maya. I talk about it more personally because that is how I know it. You are not what you think you are. Sometimes using old familiar words in a new way yields a new perspective. Xan Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 00:40:58 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: Xan Subject: Never divorcing Message: Hi Xan, Well Xan, I know what you mean by big chunk, in reviewing the groups I know about, there are some divideing lines that I look forward to discussing with you but I find myself mentally unable to tackle the subject still. (I think it is the busy work schedule) If you will stick around for a few more days, we can have our postponed fun. By the way, thanks for getting Sir David going, I find his views interesting also. (and all the rest of course) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 14:03:55 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Denise Subject: Reincarnation Message: Does M really deny reincarnation? This is really a bummer because, back when I was still deluded but looking for a little relief from the madness, I figured it would be okay if I had to come back...you know, I don't have to be a saint, I can handle a few more lifetimes. I guess I was disobeying the commandment, Do not put off until tomorrow what you can do today. No wonder. By the way, I felt a little twinge of embarrassment when I got the list of commandments that included the old saying, Do not put off until tomorrow....I mean, jeez, the Christians got such great commandments, worthy of inscription in stone, and we get 'Do not put off...' Know what I mean? Love, Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 22:16:05 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Victoria Subject: Reincarnation Message: Correction: the Jews got those commandments! But I totally agree with you. That commandment about 'don't put off til tomorrow...' was so cheesey, something like 'Let a smile be your umbrella' or 'waste not, want not' or 'never wear white beofre Memorial Day'. Victoria I am sorry I haven't emailed you. I am incredibly busy, working 2 jobs now. Feel free to email me if you want HelenRDC@aol.com Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 22:19:01 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Helen Subject: Jews, Christians, Premies Message: What the hell, we are All One anyway, ay? I don't know, maybe it's obvious that I was raised Catholic...but we moved around a lot and there are a lot of holes in my catechism. I just remember having to go back to Catholic School for the end of 4th grade after having attended public school for almost 2 years...I remember all the talk in religion class about the heathens in public school...I was scared to death they were going to think I was a heathen, so I decided to memorize the 10 commandments. Funny thing, there I was in religion class, the only kid in the room without a uniform (since we did not start from the beginning of the year) and the nun wanted to know if anyone knew the 10 commandments. I was the only one! She gave me a lovely ivory-colored plastic crucifix to wear around my neck. Also I remember asking my mom what WAS the difference between Catholics and Methodists and Lutherans and Episcopalians and Presbyterians and etc.??? She said that first there were Catholics, and then there were Protestants -- the ones who protested the original Catholic faith...that all we had to be concerned with was that we were Catholic and the others were Protestant. At that time, I had NO concept of the Jews, but I guess she might have said, first there were Jews, then Catholics, then Protestants. p.s. email if ya want, don't hafta p.p.s. 2 jobs! 2 much, no wonder you want to retire =) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 22:30:09 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Helen Subject: Oops, Premies, too Message: Helen, I forgot the part about the premies...when I was a premie, I got a lot more out of Catholic mass than I ever did as a Catholic. It was really inspiring. My grandmother's funeral is just about a total blitz in my memory, though...I sort of vaguely recall meditating through the whole thing and thinking rather blissfully that she wasn't really dead anyway since this life is all illusion, etc. I don't think I felt much of anything except THAT PLACE during the entire event. This comes to mind since my dad has been sick and I recently saw an aunt and a cousin for the first time since my grandmother died, 1978. Did not remember the cousin AT ALL. When they finally mentioned the exact year my grandmother died, then it all began falling into place for me. I guess that is one more thing I will have to do that I didn't do at the time...grieve the loss of my grandmother. Love, Victoria Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 22:42:53 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Victoria Subject: Oops, Premies, too Message: You are so funny. Loved the bit about the plastic crucifix. I wish I knew the 10 commandments by heart. I think maybe I'll teach 'em to my kid. I think they're great actually. I also like the Our Father prayer. Being raised Unitarian we never got nothin like that. Like I never got religious allusions in the novels I read in high school--for example if there was a reference to 'the sun setting like a communion wafer in the sky' I never got it, not knowing what a communion wafer was. Unitarians don't believe in original sin or that Jesus was the Son of God. We got 'the light within is within us all...I do my thing you do yours and if we should meet that's beautiful, if not it can't be helped', that kind of Esalen, Fritz Perls kind of stuff. This was Unitarianism in the high 70's and 60's. Actually I went to church at the Unitarian church on Sunday and really liked the sermon--it was on homelessness. Well I gotta go. My sponsor here at Betty Ford is telling me my one post is up. Love Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 22:58:52 (EDT)
From: Victoria Email: None To: Helen Subject: Thanks, Helen Message: I don't care if it rains or freezes, long as I got my plastic Jesus, uh-huh, uh-huh. I am honored that you chose your one post to be to me. Keep the faith with Betty, you'll be okay. Love, Victoria P.S. my favorite philosophy professor was a unitarian minister...I asked him years later to perform the rite of marriage for us, but his arthritis was keeping him down. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, May 05, 1999 at 06:18:58 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Victoria Subject: Jews, Christians, Premies Message: Dear Victoria, I grew up Catholic too! I bet we could swap some stories, eh? :) I remember wearing rosary beads on the waist band of my uniform, were the button was, just because I liked the jingle, hey I bet that is one reason I like taking belly dancing now! :) Anyway all the nuns thought it meant I wanted to become a nun and I remember it really made me mad because I knew I did not want to be a nun even when I was in 2nd grade, they were so mean. Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 21:20:58 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Time to stop waiting Message: I just noticed that the ELK site no longer promises to have a discussion board like the Forum here once they 'master the technology'. Wonder why. Well, of course, the answer's obvious. Premies have nothing to teach or learn from each other. They have no memories to share unless they're safely sanforized or, as happened with our own fake submissions, completely forged and reconstructed. Why, as someone else (JW?) pointed out a few weeks back, ELK has even eliminated the 'remembrances' it did have. Why? Perhaps because it's no longer safe to embue any premie, even Charanand, with special status. What if they bolt too? I just can't believe they've become such weenies. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 21:56:57 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Jim Subject: Rememberances Message: Hi Jim, That was me that said there were no more rememberances. Reading your post made me uncomfortably aware that as a premie you are not allowed to talk about yourself. If you do you are met with long stares and cold silences, which make you feel like you are an egomaniac. Even asking someone how they are feels uncomfortable and is met with an unfriendly vibe. This attitude seems to be a premie 'given'. I don't ever recall m saying don't talk about yourself, only me. This strange attitude causes situations like the one AJW mentioned, at a get-together after a programme. ie 'did you see that beeeaaaauuuttiiful swan logo' or words to that effect. Why can't premies be 'normal' human beings that practice k. I know that I'm generalizing and some of the 'saner' premies are not like this. I'm sure you have some ideas on the subject. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 22:37:17 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Liz Subject: Rememberances Message: Oh Liz -- you have helped me recall how I felt like I walked a dangerous 'EDGE' by talking about myself or sneaking in a question about how someone was doing. It definitely had a 'while the cats away..' tinge. I knew it was just the rebel streak in me, and I also felt a bit guilty for luring other premies into conversation. There were a few of us that had a sort of pact that we would 'talk' together- But we were treated like outcasts. I also remember scouting into other premie social circles and accidentally hear normal conversation- and I was bemused. It some how served to justify myself talking about edgy subjects with my own premie friends. This aspect is a wrinkle in my memory of premmie-dum that you have just shed some light on. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 22:50:58 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: cp Subject: Brian Gaudet, for example Message: I've told this story before but it's just so good, please, indulge me. Back when the ashram's were all but fallen apart in early '76, and those premies that remained had no clear idea why they were there other than out of habit, a few of us die-hards were sitting around the table. Laughing. Talking and a laughing. Brian Gaudet must have thought we were lost in chit chat so, to save his own soul if not ours, he went up to his room and cued up one his many Maharaji cassettes and brought his boom box down and plugged it in where we were sitting. There in all his glory was Maharaji screaming at his faithful at some program or another, blasting them for chit-chatting about their lives. Of course, the Heisenberg Omnipresence principle dictated that He was really there with us so what could we do but wipe our smiles off our faces and close our eyes in obeisance, humbled, once gain, by the lord and his trusty servant, Brian. Cintra was there, I remember that. This cult was not the best place to shake off any lingering adolescent insecurity. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 10:52:43 (EDT)
From: Nim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Beauty and the Beast Message: , ...humbled, once gain, by the lord and his trusty servant, Brian. Cintra was there, I remember that. Wow, the ever so lovely Cintra, and Brian 'Braindead' Gaudet in one post! Well talking about remembrances...I think 'Beauty and the Beast' is quite appropriate here! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999 at 22:39:10 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: Liz Subject: How are you? You're so Vain! Message: Maharaji has taken away so much of what might be a premies' personality and ability to be a typical social animal via his stunted philosophy that there is little hope for these poor people to live normal lives and even appear normal. For example, at one of the last Long Beach (96 or 97)or maybe it was Miami 25th Anniversary Maharaji made fun of the commonly used opening line How are you? to which Maharaji replied Leave me alone. I would say from that point on there was this little extra leave me alone we aren't here to socialize and chit chat with our friends at programs. For Christ's sake, Maharaji! These are just little protocols that help establish communication along with Hello, Goodbye, Nice Seeing Again, etc. I guess you might just get this way if you are living a completely pampered (aren't those diapers?) and isolated life as an egomaniac who has only sycophants and leaches as associates. Most of us normal day-to-day people cannot afford that kind of smug attitude that Marjoe professes because it's simply too unhealthy. Plus you're really in trouble if you add in all the spiritual elitism on top of that. Finally, a dose of we're all gonna die what's the point fatalism and you've got a real mess on your hands. Oh, wait! I'm missing the point! I forgot about the enjoying life experience. Maharaji, if you are really interested in helping people you'd step down now and just disappear to some island in the South Pacific. Come on, man. Can't you see what you're doing to people? Your revisionism, your doublespeak, your anti-social attitudes, your propaganda PR spin control batten down the hatches mentality. What's the message? The medium is the message and your medium is control, manipulation, lies, promises, more lies, spin, deceit, paranoia, and huge 10 page legal agreements to read your fucking webpages. Yeah babe, you've said it all. We got your message loud and clear. Watch us and send your goons to ex-premie.org and mess with our heads please. Actually, I'm not sure if you're sending any posers here and I pray to god that these freaks that have been around here aren't working on anything more than dream agya. You're so vain you probably think this post is about you Don't you? Don't you? Hey, can one of the songwriter poets finish that tune? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 08:49:15 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: barney Subject: You're so Vain! Message: You walked into the big hall, like you were walking into a yacht, Your crown strategically placed upon your head, your mala was apricot, You had one eye on the coffers as we watched your belly flop, And all the girls wished that they'd be your partner, they'd be your partner and... you're so vain...etc etc Well, I just couldn't resist. My apologies to Carly Simon Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, May 02, 1999 at 14:15:46 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: Helen Subject: You're so Vain! Message: Hi Helen, good to read you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 15:42:01 (EDT)
From: Liz Email: None To: Helen Subject: Wisdom from Smokey Message: Helen, Loved it! Do you know this one by one of Bob Dylan's favourite poets, Smokey Robinson, 'The love I saw in you was just a mirage?' (circa 1960/70). 'Just like a desert shows a thirsty man a green oasis where there's only sand. You lured me into something I should discard, the love I saw in you was just a mirage (Miraj).....' Dee-dee dah I thought this song was appropriate for this site. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, May 03, 1999 at 18:51:59 (EDT)
From: Helen Email: None To: Liz and all Subject: Wisdom from Smokey Message: Don't you love those forced rhyme schemes in those old Motown tunes? They are the greatest. Something like this: Now I cry, and tears they unfold, Cause your love, I no longer hold, No longer you I touch at night, Because I was cursed from the love I thought was right. Ain't no mountain high enough...ooh ooh' or whatever Hope you all's doing good. I'm still drying out at the Betty Ford forum addiction clinic, but I am posting little divertimentos here and there. Just had lunch with Liz Taylor --ha ha Love Helen Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sat, May 01, 1999 at 10:49:32 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: 'unless they're safely... Message: sanforized.' I got a kick out of that. Sincerely, Sanford Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 00:23:00 (EDT)
From: crow Email: None To: Shp Subject: 'unless they're safely... Message: hi sanford Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 00:38:19 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: crow Subject: hi crow Message: how ya doin? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 00:45:00 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: Shp Subject: caw caw Message: Well, What I am doing is staying up past my bedtime! But for you, no problem. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 01:35:43 (EDT)
From: Shp Email: None To: bb Subject: crow-magnons were lefties Message: Do you know what ever happened to those pencil drawings I did of Maharaji and Shri Hans when I was in Connecticut? As I recall they turned out pretty good. Remember? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, May 04, 1999 at 07:57:44 (EDT)
From: bb Email: None To: Shp Subject: crow-magnons were lefties Message: I agree, I thought you had a real drawing talent. I liked your nameing of that chicken in the neighborhood- 'shri hens'. I believe Diane Loffmin had the drawings. That would have led them into the ashram and to an unknown fate. I was in that neighborhood recently, I believe in going to puerto rican guys for all car work. They are into 'machines' hmmm, I dont know how to type thier pronunciation of machines. ma chines. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |