Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum III Archive # 52 | |
From: Jun 10, 1999 |
To: Jun 19, 1999 |
Page: 5 Of: 5 |
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Jim -:- Heaven's Gate v Maharaji -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 19:14:01 (EDT) __Nil -:- Heaven's Gate v Maharaji -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:08:54 (EDT) __AJW -:- Heaven's Gate v Maharaji -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 21:41:30 (EDT) ____Jim -:- Sure, Anth, that's it -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 22:35:43 (EDT) ______AJW -:- Sure, Anth, that's it -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 06:31:18 (EDT) ________Bobby -:- Sure, Anth, that's it -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 12:05:05 (EDT) ________Jim -:- Too supferficial, Professor -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 15:08:39 (EDT) __________AJW -:- Too supferficial, Professor -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 08:51:18 (EDT) __A Premie -:- Heaven's Gate v Maharaji -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 22:21:46 (EDT) ____an ex-premie -:- Heaven's Gate v Maharaji -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 22:24:24 (EDT) ____ET -:- Nobel Prize -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 02:37:07 (EDT) __Mary M -:- Heaven's Gate v Maharaji -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 09:07:50 (EDT) Jean-Michel -:- Interesting new contact -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 03:46:24 (EDT) __Brian -:- Interesting new contact -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 08:41:44 (EDT) ____cp -:- Interesting new contact -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 17:34:09 (EDT) __Oscar -:- M's Indian Lawyer -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:30:53 (EDT) __William -:- Interesting new contact -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 15:21:56 (EDT) ____Jim -:- Bad joke patrol -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 17:30:30 (EDT) ______William -:- Bad joke patrol -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 04:57:43 (EDT) ______wt -:- name -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 08:09:16 (EDT) Jethro -:- ERROR -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 02:21:39 (EDT) __Barney -:- ERROR -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 02:24:44 (EDT) ____Jethro -:- Sorry, I just woke up and... -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 02:26:47 (EDT) ____barney -:- test -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 03:33:32 (EDT) ____Brian -:- Hmmm -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 08:13:26 (EDT) ______Brian -:- And Hmmm -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 08:25:23 (EDT) ________Jethro -:- All is OK -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 15:51:08 (EDT) Jim -:- Nil, Rob, and other like minds -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 21:46:02 (EDT) __Durga Ji -:- Nil, Rob, and other like minds -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 01:11:41 (EDT) __Nil -:- Nil, Rob, and other like minds -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:06:12 (EDT) ____Jean-Michel -:- OK, I confess m's the Lord -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:29:49 (EDT) ____Jim -:- Is that fair, Nil? -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:56:47 (EDT) ______Nil -:- Is that fair, Nil? -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 18:47:56 (EDT) ________Jim -:- Close -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 19:00:08 (EDT) ______Pauline Premie -:- Is that fair, Nil? -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 19:07:23 (EDT) ____g's mom -:- Do you ever watch SNL? -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 14:03:01 (EDT) ______Nil -:- Do you ever watch SNL? -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 19:18:33 (EDT) ________Jerry -:- Do you ever watch SNL? -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:06:40 (EDT) ________Jim -:- Too late for that, Nil -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:15:09 (EDT) ________G's mom -:- Do you ever watch SNL? -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:48:50 (EDT) __Pauline Premie -:- Nil, Rob, and other like minds -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:36:47 (EDT) ____Gail -:- Rob has vanished! -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 15:34:41 (EDT) ______Rob -:- Rob has reappeared!!! -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:24:14 (EDT) ________uncle caleb -:- Rob has reappeared!!! -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:34:32 (EDT) __Rob -:- Nil, Rob, and other like minds -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 22:53:44 (EDT) ____Jim -:- Nil's out, Rob's in -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 23:30:48 (EDT) ______Rob -:- Nil's out, Rob's in -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:09:13 (EDT) ________Jim -:- Nil's out, Rob's in -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:26:36 (EDT) ________JHB -:- Not just in 1972/73 -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 12:00:34 (EDT) ________JW -:- Oh, Rob -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 12:57:42 (EDT) __________JW -:- Oh, Rob -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 13:01:33 (EDT) __________G's mom -:- Great post JW (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 13:02:33 (EDT) ____________Robyn -:- Great post JW -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 05:36:02 (EDT) ________Jerry -:- Nil's out, Rob's in -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 14:42:08 (EDT) __________Jerry -:- Or.... -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 16:27:36 (EDT) ________Jean-Michel -:- Rob, you WERE there -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 05:14:44 (EDT) __________Mary -:- Rob, you WERE there -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 09:15:17 (EDT) ____Nigel -:- symbology? - symbollocks! (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 19:06:29 (EDT) ______cp -:- If Bill Clinton can apologixe. -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 23:40:36 (EDT) ________Robyn -:- If Bill Clinton can apologixe. -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 05:29:04 (EDT) ________Mary M -:- Apologia Customized Menu -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 22:51:31 (EDT) JHB -:- For Rob - Let's Debate -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 20:46:53 (EDT) __Rob -:- Soon as I'm done eating! nt -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:57:38 (EDT) ____Robyn -:- Soon as I'm done eating! nt -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 21:26:34 (EDT) __Rob -:- 411 -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 21:46:23 (EDT) ____JHB -:- 411 -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 23:15:19 (EDT) ______Rob -:- 411 -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 23:22:52 (EDT) ________Here -:- it is -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 23:47:24 (EDT) __________JHB -:- Yes, I know what he wrote. -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 23:51:25 (EDT) ____________Rob -:- Yes, I know what he wrote. -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:18:07 (EDT) ______________Jim -:- I confess -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:33:30 (EDT) ______________JHB -:- Yes, I know what he wrote. -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 12:05:04 (EDT) Sandra -:- Reply to Gail -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:02:48 (EDT) __gerry -:- Reply to Gail -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:19:48 (EDT) ____So, just what are the -:- 'sustaining rote activities... -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:26:12 (EDT) __Jim -:- Reply to Gail -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:26:44 (EDT) ____Jim -:- Sorry, I forgot -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:30:49 (EDT) __Mike -:- There you go again -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:51:40 (EDT) __Gail -:- Reply to Gail -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 18:36:30 (EDT) ____Sandra -:- to Gail - even shorter -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 15:23:18 (EDT) __Jim -:- Reply to Sandra (2) -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 19:42:55 (EDT) ____Copta' Buzz -:- Reply to Sandra (2) -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 19:59:43 (EDT) ____Ben Lurking -:- Bob Kirby OT -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 20:04:45 (EDT) ____Oscar -:- Charles Cameron -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:42:47 (EDT) ____Sandra -:- Reply to Sandra (2b©Ý§†µ) -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 03:34:00 (EDT) ______Tattoo -:- 2 Questions -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 09:14:46 (EDT) ______Jim -:- That's pathetic, Sandra -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 14:59:14 (EDT) ________Sandra -:- Find a new word -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 15:52:33 (EDT) __________Jim -:- Find your conscience -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 16:42:58 (EDT) __Memphis Belle -:- Reply to Gail -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 23:16:59 (EDT) ____Katie -:- Great Post, Memphis! (*best*?) -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 22:26:17 (EDT) ______Roger Slow Drek -:- soon *best* (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 03:22:13 (EDT) ______Memphis Belle -:- Great Post, Memphis! (*best*?) -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 14:25:23 (EDT) ________Katie -:- Thanks, Memphis Belle! -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 17:03:45 (EDT) __Jean-Michel -:- Un-plugging human beings -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 03:10:45 (EDT) ____Mike -:- Not to mention -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 12:23:53 (EDT) __JW -:- Reply to Gail -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:53:08 (EDT) ____Mike -:- Amen! -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 18:28:12 (EDT) ____Oscar Wilde -:- Friendly Giant -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:24:28 (EDT) Bruce -:- Personality Profile of Jim -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 12:42:18 (EDT) __Mike -:- Personality Profile of Jim -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 12:58:34 (EDT) __Gail -:- Personality Profile of Bruce -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 12:59:47 (EDT) ____Marianne -:- Personality Profile of Jim -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 13:08:16 (EDT) ______Dr Reich -:- My analysis of Bruce -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 13:36:23 (EDT) __JW -:- Personality Profile of Jim -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 13:48:47 (EDT) __barney -:- character assassination -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 14:11:31 (EDT) ____gerry -:- character assassination -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 14:26:01 (EDT) __Richard -:- Pathetic Bruce... -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 14:42:47 (EDT) __Katie -:- Net Persona vs a Real Person -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 14:56:42 (EDT) ____Bruce -:- Why I wrote -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 18:18:10 (EDT) ______Mary M -:- Why I wrote -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 18:42:20 (EDT) ________Gail -:- Why I wrote -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 18:51:28 (EDT) ____Magnificent Martian -:- Bruce vs Bruce -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 03:16:05 (EDT) ______Katie -:- Bruce vs Bruce -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 12:21:20 (EDT) __Jim -:- Too funny! -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 15:57:27 (EDT) ____gregg -:- let's talk about jim -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 20:45:29 (EDT) ____Oscar -:- Bruce - M's chauffeur -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:46:42 (EDT) ____Bruce -:- Too funny! -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 15:02:15 (EDT) __AJW -:- Centre of Attention. -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 03:46:24 (EDT) ____Sir Dave -:- Centre of Attention. -:- Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:26:50 (EDT) __nigel -:- Envy? -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 19:56:30 (EDT) ____Bruce -:- Answer to Envy -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 14:01:11 (EDT) ______JHB -:- Organised Crime Figure -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 14:54:32 (EDT) Jim -:- More unimportant t/w Rob -:- Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 08:57:19 (EDT) |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 19:14:01 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Heaven's Gate v Maharaji Message: Nil, in a thread below, said that it was ridiculous comapring Heaven's Gate to Maharaji's World. I, for one, think it's a completely excellent comparison. What do you guys think? Over the top? On the money? Somewhere in between? More generally, if HG isn't a good comparison, what cult out there is? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:08:54 (EDT)
From: Nil Email: None To: Jim Subject: Heaven's Gate v Maharaji Message: zzzzzzzzzz.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 21:41:30 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Heaven's Gate v Maharaji Message: How about the Michael Jackson Fan Club? Anth Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 22:35:43 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: AJW Subject: Sure, Anth, that's it Message: How about the Michael Jackson Fan Club? What's your point? That any similarities between the mind-numbing devotion Heavens-Gaters held for Applewhite and that premies hold for Maharaji are no greater than those between the latter group and Michael Jackson Fan Club members? Is that how you see it? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 06:31:18 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sure, Anth, that's it Message: No, more like a bunch of poor deluded folk, worshipping a rich deluded folk who lives in a big house with lots of servants, sometimes gets dressed up in wierd costumes and has difficulty interacting with non-fans. Anth the Social Scientist. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 12:05:05 (EDT)
From: Bobby Email: None To: AJW Subject: Sure, Anth, that's it Message:
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 15:08:39 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: AJW Subject: Too supferficial, Professor Message: No, more like a bunch of poor deluded folk, worshipping a rich deluded folk who lives in a big house with lots of servants, sometimes gets dressed up in wierd costumes and has difficulty interacting with non-fans. Anth the Social Scientist. (my emphasis) Anth, The diff is that both premies and HGers 'worship' literally. MJ fans don't. That diference is everything. The other similarities are trivial. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 08:51:18 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Too supferficial, Professor Message: Hi Jim, In my book 'worship'is homage to God, or adoration shown to a person, so the difference isn't so clear. The sentiment of my original comment, however, was that I don't think that premies are into such a heavy cult as Heavens Gate (that's the one where they all committed suicide to go off to some other planet right?' Elan Vital is more 'Mickey Mouse' than that. To put it another way, I'd be more worried if one of my kids got into Heavens Gate than Elan Vital. Anth the etymologist. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 22:21:46 (EDT)
From: A Premie Email: None To: Jim Subject: Heaven's Gate v Maharaji Message: I am sick of people saying that Elan Vital is a cult. Maharaji himself said that it wasn't a cult back in the seventies. Maharaji has a forward looking movement and he doesn't harp on about the past. Oh you guys just think I'm a joke but you'll laugh on the other side of your faces when Maharaji gets the Nobel Prize for Literature for his poetry. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 22:24:24 (EDT)
From: an ex-premie Email: None To: A Premie Subject: Heaven's Gate v Maharaji Message: That post WAS a joke, wasn't it? Please say yes. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 02:37:07 (EDT)
From: ET Email: None To: A Premie Subject: Nobel Prize Message: I'm laughing from the front side of my face at your post! Nobel prize? Really! If that happens I promise I will rush back to the Lotus Feet! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 09:07:50 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Jim Subject: Heaven's Gate v Maharaji Message: Hi Jim, Temple of the Universe (an east/west spiritual deli) in Alachua, Florida. Micky Singer is the bonafide leader. He actively recruited 'computer programmers' in the early eighties to write the code for a software program 'Medical Manager' in return for their ashram shelter and nirvana. The business became quite successful and 'regular employees' were hired. He approached me shortly after my bailing out of DLM/EV. I had the opportunity to tell him to 'fock off'. I had made a vow that no one was going to tell me butter was bad for my second chakra again! (Aside to premies: Please note I am quite egalitarian in my distaste for shiesters. When one of my supervisors requested my assistance in installing Med Man I let him know in no uncertain terms I wouldn't touch the program or support it ever;-) Micky just sold Medical Manager for millions & millions of dollars. He's still the President of the Board. He recently donated a Monet to the University of Florida's Harn Museum. He is painted as an enigmatic individual in the local papers and he's requested the 'locals' not make a big deal out of his temple, fortune or business deals. (Monet's buy silence I guess.) I wonder if any of the original ashram programmers got a cut? I know of two individuals who were in his employ that went bonkers and murdered their girlfriends (one incident was a murder/suicide). Another employee was bailed out of Lewd and Lascivious charges on a child under 16 by -------. Strange times. |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 03:46:24 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr To: Everyone Subject: Interesting new contact Message: Hi you all, I need some help! As I've told you a few days ago, I'm in touch with an Indian ex who says he's the person who took the ' kid' to the West in 1971. I've replied to his email and asked him a few obvious questions. His answer is another question: I would be curious to know what is the myth of the origins in America. Can you tell it to me? I will be happy to comment. Best wishes, xxx Would any of you be able to answer his question? Your english is much more fluent than mine. Or directly e-mail him? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 08:41:44 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: katabria@apk.net To: Jean-Michel Subject: Interesting new contact Message: Send me his email address, JM, and I'll fill him in. I'm curious as to whether he's who he claims to be, and what information he might have. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 17:34:09 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Brian Subject: Interesting new contact Message: Just want to say that I have been waiting for this topic topic to rethread. Looking forward to the next episode. It shall be a new condiment to try with the sandras and the robs and the jim ala carte. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:30:53 (EDT)
From: Oscar Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: M's Indian Lawyer Message: I gave an Introductory Video once to an Indian guy who turned out to have been M's lawyer in Delhi in the late seventies or early eighties. After he had watched the video he told me this. I live close to a person who is probably still in touch with this guy who is a criminal lawyer or judge now still living in Delhi. Oscar Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 15:21:56 (EDT)
From: William Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Interesting new contact Message: The origins in America? Not sure what he means, like where did Native Americans come from? The BIG migration. From India, China etc thru Russia across to Alaska and down into Mexico and S. America. Don't know if that will work or not. Might though. William Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 17:30:30 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: William Subject: Bad joke patrol Message: The origins in America? Not sure what he means, like where did Native Americans come from? The BIG migration. From India, China etc thru Russia across to Alaska and down into Mexico and S. America. Don't know if that will work or not. Might though. William Just don't start in with the puns, okay? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 04:57:43 (EDT)
From: William Email: None To: Jim Subject: Bad joke patrol Message: No puns intended Jim. William Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 08:09:16 (EDT)
From: wt Email: None To: Jim Subject: name Message: if I start in I will post as wt to avoid any confusion Wm or wt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 02:21:39 (EDT)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Barney Subject: ERROR Message: I keep on getting 'Internet script error, line 6, char 1' when I try posing a reply in the framed version. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 02:24:44 (EDT)
From: Barney Email: None To: Jethro Subject: ERROR Message: I have just seen the above message does appear in the non-framed version. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 02:26:47 (EDT)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Barney Subject: Sorry, I just woke up and... Message: maybe I should have meditated..then I wouldn't have been in my mind....oh boy...do you think I'll go to manmut hell Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 03:33:32 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: Barney Subject: test Message: adsf Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 08:13:26 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: None To: Barney Subject: Hmmm Message: I just posted this okay... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 08:25:23 (EDT)
From: Brian Email: None To: Brian Subject: And Hmmm Message: That was via non-frames. This is via the frames, which is what Jethro said was faster so he's probably using that version. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 15:51:08 (EDT)
From: Jethro Email: None To: Barney & Brian Subject: All is OK Message: Just to clarify that everything is okay now, sorry for the confusion. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 21:46:02 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Nil, Rob, and other like minds Message: In a thread below, Nil said: So let's come at it from the other direction. What makes you say he's not? I mean, you must be using some criteria for Lord of the Universe to weigh him against. And then, if you have some criteria, it implies you would know a Lord of the Universe if you bumped into one. Now if you DID know what a Lord of the Universe looked like, would this be because you have a direct knowledge of him? or your mommy told you so? or you were born enlightened? or how? You see, my bet is all you've got to weigh this possibility is a bunch of ideas. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he is or you should blindly believe he is... I'm just asking how you know he's not. Okay, time to get that old party line out one more time... and a two... and a three... (emphasis added) I reached this identical point with Rob the other day. And, for that matter, a number of you cult members ever since I left the fold. This is a hypothetical question; it deserves a hypothetical answer. Here's mine: if Maharaji's really the Lord, then people like me are, to put it mildly, fucked. I mean, here I am still talking about Maharaji fucking his mistress who knows how many ways, smoking dope, grafting millions from his operation, brainwashing hundreds of thousand suckers .... and I just don't know when to quit! No, I'd say I, at least, am in trouble. (Wouldn't want to be Gerry, though!). Okay? Fair? Alright, now fair is fair, right? Your turn, Nil. (Rob, I should tell you found that this next question offended his 'boundaries', you know. And for that I'm eternally sorry. One never knows where one mustn't tread when one's dealing with the peculiar sensitivities of a cult member. Normal protocols of fairness and stuff take a back seat to ad hoc excuses as we all know. Anyway....) Where was I? Oh yeah. Nil, if we play your game, you play ours. We get to ask a hypothetical question too. And guess what, bud, you have to answer it!! Yes, I know. Quite a system, isn't it? Okay, ready? Here goes. Here, Nil, (and Sandra perhaps might like to join in): We've already established that Maharaji claimed to be the Supreme Lord in human form. [And here, for your heightened cult standards, is yet another reminder of this most obvious of facts. Here's my little 'I am God' cut-and-paste thingie: 1) 'You look at Christ, for instance. And he came and was Perfect Master. According to the belief, he had enough power that after he was crucified, he came back. So, you think twice about this and you figure, if somebody has got a power -- and it was incredible as to be able to to be crucified and them come back again -- you can definitely figure out that he must ahve the power to sort of take the whole Earth and jiggle it once in a plastic bag. Give it a little twist, all us teensy-weensy things go falling into this palstic bag. He opens it up and says, 'Listen, you thing in there. Realize the purpose of your life, aim of your life. This is it. Period.' ***** 2)Q - To whom should we give our devotion? A - Guru. Q - Shouldn't we give our devotion to God? A - What is God? Q - Well, Guru is a personification of God in this Earth, right? A - I told you yesterday: Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? **** When God has come here, then what is the need to give devotion to God there? ***** 3) The Lord Himself reincarnates, reincarnates, reincarnates Himself for the very purpose of saving us. And we do not even realize who gave us the authority to refuse Him! Who are we anyway? From which field do we come that we can reject, that we can refuse, that we can deny our Lord? This is something that I cannot answer. And we do it every time!. Because we have got a stupid ego. ..... We just don't know that we are His puppets. ***[a lot of stuff about how he could suck all the atmosphere away, etc.] 4) So when Lord comes to us, accept Him. And Lord is here. He has always been here. How can we make a statment, 'The Lord is gone', and then turn aroudn and say, 'Lord is omnipresent'? We are contradicting ourselves. He has always been here. He has always been saving us, but it's us who pull out of His shelter. ******* 5) What is it? Something for people to understand: that there is a personality like God. Adn without him we are just pieces of junk, nothing else. And it's like, somebody has to really look up to it, you know. It's like, God is THERE, all the time. But for a person to see Him and underwstand Him, anyway he ahs to look UP to Him. But it's like, God is giving us all these indications of His presence. You know? If he does... Look. The thing is, if somebody goes and does soemthing good, he will go and goof around all Arizona probably, saying ' I have done something good.' But if he does something bad, and he blows it [ed. like predicting the dawning of the millenium], you know, it means he just really blew it. Then he is going to blame it on somebody else; not on himself. So if God does something good for people, people will never understand it. People don't! ***** 6) 'Why do we have this human body? To know this, we will have to take the shelter of Guru Maharja Ji. Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us.' ****** 7) Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? ****** 8)Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. ******* 9) I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? ****** 10) When human beings forget the religion of humanity, the Supreme Lord incarnates. He takes a body and comes on this earth ...... When human beings forget this one way, then our Lord, who is the Lord of the whole universe, comes in human body to give us practical Knowlege, .... But, most ironically, we don't appreciate the Lord when He comes in His human body on this earth. Similarly, a Satguru, a Perfect Master, a Supreme Lord who is existing in the present time, can give you the practical Knowledge of the real thing... So God Himself comes to give practical Knowledge of His divinity, of His inner self, which is self-effulgent light, eternal light, all-pervading light. **** And the Supreme Master, the Satguru, gives practical Knowledge of that light, irrespective of caste, creed, color, religion or sex, to those human individuals who bow before him with reverence, with love and with faith. Okay, here's the hypothetical question you should now answer, seeing as I answered yours. Yes, yes, I know, it's only hypothetical. And all I want is a hyothetical answer. Ready? Okay....... What does it say about Maharaji's credibility, in the light of all these quotes, if he isn't the Lord? Come on, Nil, I know you can do it. Don't wory about your boundaries, fella, just open your mouth and let your heart sing!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 01:11:41 (EDT)
From: Durga Ji Email: godcentral@ad.infinitum To: Jim Subject: Nil, Rob, and other like minds Message: Mr. Heller: You have made our lives a living hell for two years now. MJ has made every effort to remove concepts and make Knowledge available to everyone; the past is the past. Due to ex-premie.org, we have lost many slaves (PWK workers). We are going to have to hire worldly people and pay them minimum wage. BTW, we are looking for a new tax lawyer; would you like the job? It's really embarrassing to admit mistakes sometimes. Jim, please admit yours and come back. We will not humiliate you in public. The door is always open. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:06:12 (EDT)
From: Nil Email: None To: Jim Subject: Nil, Rob, and other like minds Message: What does it say about Maharaji's credibility, in the light of all these quotes, if he isn't the Lord? Nice try Perry. If an answer could be given to the question of 'is he' or 'is he not' the Lord, I'd answer you straight up. But this is a question that Knowledge is given to answer, and that really is the only way to know. I know you're trying to steer me in a direction where you want me to say, 'If he's not, then his credibility is hooped'. Then you could do that lawyer thing and drill down into the nub of your case, i.e., why he's not, which throws this time-honored question into the realm of public objectivity where it doesn't belong... so I'm not gonna go there Jim. Those who have taken Knowledge and understood what to do with it, know the answer beyond question. Jeez I wish I was dealing with someone I could just 'let [my] heart sing' to... but alas I'm not. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:29:49 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Nil Subject: OK, I confess m's the Lord Message: That's been my opinion, I have no shame to tell. Now that I've left him, I've realized I was wrong. What do you think? I'm wrong thinking I'm wrong? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:56:47 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Nil Subject: Is that fair, Nil? Message: What is this? You expect me to answer your hypothetical question but you won't, in turn, answer mine? Tell me, Nil, do you think this is a fair discussion? Is it any kind of discussion at all? If, by chance, you do say it's somehow fair for you to do this, would you please save me from having to ask you how and spell it all out now? Thanks, (P.S. Pauline, you crack me up.) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 18:47:56 (EDT)
From: Nil Email: None To: Jim Subject: Is that fair, Nil? Message: You're right Jim... it's not fair. So here's my answer... If a person were to not be someone they say the are, they would either be lying or deluded. So tell me, is he? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 19:00:08 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Nil Subject: Close Message: You're right Jim... it's not fair. So here's my answer... If a person were to not be someone they say the are, they would either be lying or deluded. So tell me, is he? Thanks for that as far as it goes, Nil. I cna see you're trying -- kinda. The problem I've got is that I wasn't asking you about 'a person'. I was asking you about Maharaji. And I wasn't asking about him being who he says he is. My question was much more specific. I was asking about his claim to be God. What's wrong? Can't you say it? Can't you say that if Maharaji claimed to be God and he isn't he's either lying or deluded? Sometimes you premies seem like you went through whatever 'treatment' the Malcolm Mcdowell character went through in 'A Clockwork Orange'. It's as if you'll get violently ill just saying the words. Come on, Nil, repeat after me: If Maharaji claimed to be God and isn't, he's either deluded or lying. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 19:07:23 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie Email: None To: Jim Subject: Is that fair, Nil? Message: See what I mean? You ex-premies just make fun of everything. I am deadly serious, Jim. This is that life, that breath, and you have that opportunity to be gifted by that gift and instead you just laugh. You are the man who bent down away from his Master to get some water and then emerged 30 years later encumbered with a wife and children and unable to dedicate his life to that master. You can fall that fast, Jim. It's just so sad. But you have had the chance to take that gift which is that breath and that life and have that understanding. Then when you feel that gratitude and are with Maharaji it is so blissful. As I said, I nearly wet my pants the last time it happened for me. Now, I know it is an internal experience, but Maharaji almost always nearly makes me wet. This is our chance Jim. Without Maharaji and his grace which gives us that gift of that love, that joy, that peace, that truth, that experience and that knowledge, we are nothing more than the ooze and puss that comes out of a stinking, infected boil on your bum, when you stab it with a dirty needle and squeeze it real hard. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 14:03:01 (EDT)
From: g's mom Email: None To: Jim Subject: Do you ever watch SNL? Message: Did you see the OJ Simpson parody? Right after the verdict in the criminal trial? The guy who is lampooning Johnnie Cochran says 'well, they accuse us of playing the race card...well...they play something worse..they play the EVIDENCE card!' Nils response to you is JUST like that. Well, hey, I am not gonna converse if you are going to continue to through facts at me. Using facts is just below the belt. Jim you are a saint to continue to try to talk to premies. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 19:18:33 (EDT)
From: Nil Email: None To: g's mom Subject: Do you ever watch SNL? Message: I've got no problem with the 'facts' mom of G. You however seem to have a problem with one fact... that is that Knowledge works for many people. And those people feel genuine gratitude for being given Knowledge. AND that SOME even maintain there to be a unique relationship between Maharaji and the Creator, because of the bridge to the Creator his teaching provides. How do you slough that one off? By saying, 'I'm smarter than they are?' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:06:40 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Nil Subject: Do you ever watch SNL? Message: Nil, Why are you here? If you're so sure that M has this special connection with the creator, who are you trying to convince? Us? We're not interested. It should be clear to you by now that we think he's a fraud. So, what are you doing hanging around with a bunch of people who feel that way? You've got what you were looking for, right? And it ain't here, right? So what are you doing here? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:15:09 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Nil Subject: Too late for that, Nil Message: I've got no problem with the 'facts' mom of G. You however seem to have a problem with one fact... that is that Knowledge works for many people. And those people feel genuine gratitude for being given Knowledge. AND that SOME even maintain there to be a unique relationship between Maharaji and the Creator, because of the bridge to the Creator his teaching provides. How do you slough that one off? By saying, 'I'm smarter than they are?' (emphasis added) Too late for such circuitous mincing, Nil. We've past that point. We're not talking 'unique relationship', we're talking identity. Maharaji has said he's God. Either he is or he isn't. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:48:50 (EDT)
From: G's mom Email: None To: Jim Subject: Do you ever watch SNL? Message: Jim you are a saint to continue to try to talk to premies. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:36:47 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie Email: None To: Jim Subject: Nil, Rob, and other like minds Message: Jim, as Nil informs us, a premie with THAT understanding would never even consider what you are asking, but, of course, it is fine for Nil to question you on the opposite. But as a good premie, Nil will not even consider for a second the implications of the fact that the Maharaji once claimed to be god, but doesn't anymore, and, in fact, isn't. I mean he just did it all to blow out minds, Jim. God, you ex-premies are SO DENSE. I mean, Jim, that is asking for a rational discussion and a truly programmed premie like Nil would never do that, lest he demonstrate some lack of THAT understanding. This is the truth Jim. Nobody knows what the Perfect Master/Lord of the Universe is supposed to look like or how he will act. So, that fact that Maharaji is a deceitful liar is irrelevent, because that could well be what a Perfect Master is SUPPOSED to look like and do. So, if you like knowledge and have fun at programs, it's irrelevent. This is the appropriate understanding in order to have that experience of that love, that truth, that peace, that breath which is that life and which engenders that love and that gratitude to Maharaji, the master of our time. I feel sorry for you Jim, because you are so lacking in THAT understanding. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 15:34:41 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Pauline Premie Subject: Rob has vanished! Message: Well, I sent Rob three e-mails yesterday, regarding Montreal. He said he would get me in. Hmmmmmmm No reply. I have taken Monday off work. I can no longer be reached by e-mail. I am changing providers (care to block me BARNEY?). See you at the feet! Au revoir Gail Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:24:14 (EDT)
From: Rob Email: None To: Gail Subject: Rob has reappeared!!! Message: Sorry, Gail, busy working. I'll check my email and get back to you. Rob. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:34:32 (EDT)
From: uncle caleb Email: None To: Rob Subject: Rob has reappeared!!! Message: rob you louse! you weasel! you'd steal flies from blind spyders. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 22:53:44 (EDT)
From: Rob Email: None To: ijm Subject: Nil, Rob, and other like minds Message: From the style and content of your bold quotation, it looks like a rather dyslexic rendition of something Maharaji said back around 1972/73, yes? When he was 14 or 15. Pretty potent stuff for someone of that age, don't you think? What kind of discourses were you giving around puberty time? It may seem irrelevant to mention this, but I actually believe it does have a bearing on the question you have raised. If, as your question goes, he is not 'the Lord', and presumably was not the Lord back in 1973 either, (I'm assuming here that your hypothesis does not allow for Cosmic Downsizing) was he 'lying' when he came out with all that stuff. Well, my Oxford Dictionary defines a 'lie' as 'an intentionally false statement'. I would submit that in this context then, given the age and cultural upbringing of the young man, that it was not necessarily an intentionally false statement, if we are to abide by the constraints of the hypothesis in saying it was false. It was quite possibly a sincere attempt to express what were evidently powerful inner experiences, using the only symbology and terminology at his disposal. These would have been (possibly his own) English translations of his father's Hindi discourses, which in his mind most closely fitted what he was trying to describe. I would suggest, then, that by definition, he was not lying, and your hypothesis is unproven. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 23:30:48 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Rob Subject: Nil's out, Rob's in Message: From the style and content of your bold quotation, it looks like a rather dyslexic rendition of something Maharaji said back around 1972/73, yes? I don't know about 'dyslexic' but yes, that's the era. When he was 14 or 15. Pretty potent stuff for someone of that age, don't you think? Depends what you mean by 'potent'? He's certainly full of himself, that's for sure. But are you suggesting that he's expressing some sort of preternatural wisdom for a little nipper? Is that what you mean? I sure don't see it. Indeed, as I'll elaborate on below, if he's not God, I'd say he's uttering a bunch of nonsense. Wouldn't you? By the way, did you ever see Marjoe, the film about the child evangelist of that name? What kind of discourses were you giving around puberty time? It may seem irrelevant to mention this, but I actually believe it does have a bearing on the question you have raised. This is one of my favorite unintentional humour things you premies lighten my life with. You guys are so steeped in this cult garbage that, well, it's like this. 'If Maharaji's not my master, then who is?' 'If Maharaji's not giving the discourses I must listen to to fel good, who is' ...etc. Rob, I've got new for you: I wasn't giving no discourses. None. You got that? I was a very undiscourseful teenager. It's funny, but talking with my mother yeras later I learned that our whole family was like that. Hardly anyone gave discourses. Strange, eh? Oh yeah, lest I forget, you're right, it does seem strange. You say it's relevant. How? If, as your question goes, he is not 'the Lord', and presumably was not the Lord back in 1973 either, (I'm assuming here that your hypothesis does not allow for Cosmic Downsizing) was he 'lying' when he came out with all that stuff. Well, my Oxford Dictionary defines a 'lie' as 'an intentionally false statement'. I'm with you there. I would submit that in this context then, given the age and cultural upbringing of the young man, that it was not necessarily an intentionally false statement, if we are to abide by the constraints of the hypothesis in saying it was false. It was quite possibly a sincere attempt to express what were evidently powerful inner experiences, using the only symbology and terminology at his disposal. These would have been (possibly his own) English translations of his father's Hindi discourses, which in his mind most closely fitted what he was trying to describe. No, Rob, you're trying to do the impossible here. I'll grant you that Maharaji may be have been deluded himself but there's no way on Darwin's green earth that the meaning of all those 'I'm God' speeches don't mean exactly that. That is, there's no 'inner experience' that translates into these phrases other than the thought that the speaker is indeed God. Rob, don't be a jerk about this. Take a cue from your fellow cult member, No One, who, upon reading these quotes honestly conceded that, contrary to his earlier opinion (vociferously voiced, I might add) Maharaji did indeed claim to be God. I would suggest, then, that by definition, he was not lying, and your hypothesis is unproven. Well, you're getting particularly sloppy in your haste to close the barn door, Rob. The most you could sugest here, I believe, is that it's possible that he was not lying (i.e. that he may have been deluded as that's all that's left: God, lying or deluded.). On the other hand, don't forget, it's possible that he was (lying, that is). Okay, so where are we? Either a) he's God; b) he's deluded; or c) he's lying. If he's God we follow a whole different track. Let's leave that alone for now, 'kay? If he's lying, I'd suggest, he is ... what? A gross fraud? How would you quantify the extent of his misrepresentation? I know how it affected my life. 'Trivial' is not a word that comes to mind. But how about 'b'? Say he's 'deluded', misreading certain 'powerful inner experiences' as you posit. Would you say that his judgment would be otherwise trustworthy if one little mistake he's making is thinking that he's the 'Supreme Lord incarnate'? Tell me about it. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:09:13 (EDT)
From: Rob Email: None To: Jim Subject: Nil's out, Rob's in Message: It's an uphill struggle, but I think we're slowly getting back to a debating style sans insults. I'm still not convinced about the 'lying' explanation. Simply because I can't picture a lie of that apparant magnitude being undertaken by a lone teenager, away from home and his native land, struggling with a second language and speaking before hundreds, if not thousands, of strangers. For what reason? Are you suggesting he's plotted this whole thing out whilst pretending to study geometry at St Joseph's? That's got to be more far-fetched than anything I've read so far. Maybe that is it, though. Maybe it was all really a childish schoolboy prank that went horribly wrong. Omigosh, there he was, pulling the ripest April Fool's joke this side of the Gangees and before he could say 'Balyogeshwar', the stupid fucks were all taking him seriously and packing his Snoopy lunchbox for his trip to the Wild Heathen West. Nah, you'd have to have balls the size of Ontario to pull that off. Deluded? Jim, I really don't think so. Scratching my head here, trying to put that option into the puzzle and I can't see it fitting what I know of the man. I mean, we're talking the mother of all psychoses here. I've had to deal with some real nutters in my time, including half a dozen 'jesus's', couple of 'caesar's' and even had to take down a bloke who thought he was Hannibal and my client had stolen his fucking elephants, but they all had one thing in common. You just could tell right away they were off their flaming rockers. Don't get that from Maharaji at all. He is very composed and in control, no delusion there IMHO. Trying to find you an answer here, I really am. Here's this eight year old boy (winding the clock back a tad, going for a bit of background), all his life he's been listening to his father speak, having his own experiences of Knowledge and being immersed in a traditional Hindu culture, in the form of his family and friends, whilst habing Christianity thrust at him at St. J's. He knows the experience his father is talking about is real, he's trying in his own way to tie it into the rest of the cultural influences around him. Then his father passes away and suddenly he himself is looked upon for guidance. People start calling him 'Guru Maharaji Ji' and throwing themselves at his feet. He feels in his heart that what his father revealed to him is a very unique and precious gift, he knows his father wanted him to carry forward the message,and take it beyond the land where it had been taught for several hundred years in direct lineage. Remember here, he is still a boy. He wants to find ways of expressing himself, of continuing his father's teachings. All the time, his father's devotees are continuing to put him, literally and figuratively, on a pedestal. His head is filled with stories of Ram, Krishna, Jesus, God, Perfect Master.... I'm sure deep down he would have known his true relationship to this Knowledge, and to his Creator, but he is not yet experienced or strong enough to bring this forward and express it clearly. So he arrives in the West. Right there at the beginning of the wonderful seventies. Eastern religions were all the rage, very fashionable; meditation, mysticism, cults, joss-sticks, the works. So in he walks, this young Indian 'Guru'. Just what everybody expected him to be, right? Funny accent, weird clothes, flowers round his neck. Perfect, we'll take him just like he is. So now he's got to talk to these boneheads and impart to them the experience of Knowledge. OK, now here he is on a pedestal again, speaking for hours at a time in schoolbook English and with few real world analogies of his own to illustrate his point. What happens? All this Hindu/Christian mish-mosh comes out as he's trying to describe his role as teacher, as a vehicle for God's message. I personally remember him struggling to get the point over that he is a messenger of the experience of our Creator within us. I distinctly remember him on many occasions saying: I am bringing you the Knowledge of God. This Knowledge is the Knowledge of God. It is within you and it is within me. I am not God. I am the finger, I am here to point you to God, to show you the way to God within inside of you. I'm sure he was trying as many ways as he could muster to get people to catch on to what he was saying. People were constantly pressing him for more explanation of who he was, rather than what it was inside of them he was trying to bring their attention to. So yes, in the midst of that environment, he probably did make comparisons with Jesus, Krishna and the rest of the laddies. Shit, he didn't have a lot to work with outside of his education and Hindu/Christian background. It wouldn't surprise if, in the midst of it all, he did get a bit lost between describing himself, his role, his impression of who his father was, who people thought he was, and so on. Which would explain why he spent the ensuing years, yes, even up to today, trying to get rid of all that religious baggage and simplify the whole thing. Unfortunately, some people couldn't see it, clung onto every syllable, every phrase and freaked when it looked like their 'Truths' were being unravelled. Take a lesson from Moses - don't write nothing in stone. Well that's going to have to do for tonight, although I know full well it won't 'do'. Remember too, we're just discussing an hypothetical situation here, and it will remain that way until it's been established that he isn't the Lord. Or do you know something the rest of us don't, Mr. H? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:26:36 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Rob Subject: Nil's out, Rob's in Message: Rob, I agree that the 'lie' scenario's an unlikely explanation, largely for the reasons you've set out. No, to me it's pretty straightforward, he actually believed that his father had given him this divine power, etc. The fact is, though, Rob, under the terms of our hypothetical consideration here, he wasn't the Lord. That does indeed amount to an extraordinarily large boo boo. But here's where that all goes like steel filings to a 2 ton electromagnet -- if Maharaji was wrong abotu being the Lord two things necessarily follow: 1) He owes a full, and I mean full, accounting, clarification, whatever you want to call it, to people who believed him. After all, as many premies (including yourself, by the way) have shown here, there are even still many people who think that outlandish possibility may be true. and 2) He doesn't know what he's talking about. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 12:00:34 (EDT)
From: JHB Email: None To: Rob Subject: Not just in 1972/73 Message: But Rob, he was STILL saying stuff about how all-powerful Guru Maharaj Ji is many years later when his command of english and experience of the western world was no longer so limited. How do you explain this? (or do you want me to dig out the precise quotes?) John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 12:57:42 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Rob Subject: Oh, Rob Message: Rob, I wanted to add one or two points to what Jim said. For me, like Jim, the key point is that at some point Prem Pal wasn't a kid anymore and realized he wasn't god. He made exactly zero attempt to come clean on that issue and make it very clear that he WAS deluded, mistaken or used by his family. And that deception was done as a mature adult, continuing into his 40s. As Jim said, he knew full well that thousands of his followers believed he was the incarnation of god and dedicated their lives accordingly. And he has done ZERO to take ANY responsiblity for that, or even to provide a explanation of what REALLY happened-- either he was deluded or lying. The other point is that Maharaji wasn't playing god just in his youth as you imply. At least until I left his cult in 1983, at which time he was in his mid-20s, he was still sitting on thrones, wearing Krishna crowns, giving darshan and demanding that we dedicate and surrender our lives to him. He was still playing god and still comparing himself to Jesus and Krishna. He was no kid Rob, so your spinning explanation doesn't fly with me and I can't understand how you can accept that. The truth is, it wasn't the premies who FORCED him to play god. He did it consciously himself as an adult. And also as an adult, he changed his tune, at least superficially, although he is STILL having people line up to kiss his feet, but he has taken no responsiblity for his past. So, at some point he obviously knew it wasn't appropriate to play god anymore, and yet he still accepted no responbility for what he had done. To me, that rules him out as any kind of spiritual 'master' with any kind of integrity. Not someone you would want to get involved with, no matter how nice some meditation techniques make you feel. There are all kinds of gurus around, and he is definitely a 'bad guru.' Of course the fact that he has become obscenely wealthy in this whole process appears to me to be the apparent motivation for his NOT taking any responsiblity and continuing to play the god game, just with toned down rhetoric. I have a hard time seeing any other one, besides the old, tired, cult-logic of 'lila.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 13:01:33 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: JW Subject: Oh, Rob Message: The 'Oh, Rob' subject line is in dedication to Mary Tyler Moore, which she is famous for saying on the old Dick VanDyke Show. :))) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 13:02:33 (EDT)
From: G's mom Email: None To: JW Subject: Great post JW (nt) Message: nt Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 05:36:02 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: G's mom Subject: Great post JW Message: Dear Joe, (and hi g's mom) Being more appreciative of the off topic posts I have to tell you that I LOVED your 2nd, 'Oh, Rob' post best as I thought it was more an expression of exhasperation before I read your explination. :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 14:42:08 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Rob Subject: Nil's out, Rob's in Message: Interesting, Rob. But what you're saying, in effect, is that Maharaji was really too young and confused to be a true master back then. Are you suggesting that now he qualifies, where before he didn't? I wonder what Maharji would have to say about that. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 16:27:36 (EDT)
From: Jerry Email: None To: Rob Subject: Or.... Message: What you're saying is that he was just playing ball with a bunch of 'boneheads' who wanted him to be God, figuring this was the only way he could get Knowledge to them. So he sat on his throne and had them line up to kiss his feet all for the sake of making himself acceptable so they'd receive Knowlewdge, which is where it was really at and hopefully someday they'd cut out this LOTU crap and just accept him for who he is, a humble messenger from God. What a fucking hypothesis! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 05:14:44 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Rob Subject: Rob, you WERE there Message: very likely. I was there myself, and I've heard him saying this, like 1000s of premies, and it's been printed: 'Just see, today this word 'guru' has become a ridiculous term, a sort of a joke and people do not know what is a 'guru'. When I fly a plane in India, I often listen to the radio in the cockpit. There are talks going on between various pilots in the vicinity. Somebody would address: ''Well Guru, how are you?' Because they do not know the true meaning and implications. They don't understand the glory of a guru and Master. Because they have forgotten altogether. They have made such pseudo-guru who have put the whole system to disrepute. For instance, in schools they don't know the correct meaning of a couplet like: The radiance radiated from my beloved is of suds an amazing hue ... They say, 'oh yes, because Kabir saw a sort of redness...' But what sort of redness was it? Such so-called gurus have marred the reputation of this institution. It has been ruined. Actually the guru is such a personality about whom it is said: « I bow down to the lotusfeet of my Guru Maharaji, who is the ocean of mercy and is actually Hari (God) himself in human form, And whose words are like sunbeams to disperse the accumulated darkness of gross ignorance. So Tulsidas says that he bows down to such a Guru Maharaji, the Master, who is really Hari (Supreme Power) in the form of man. So the main thing to understand here is that he bows down to the feet of that guru whose utterances, whose expressions are able to illuminate. And what is that which is illuminated by his words? It is the heart which is illuminated. His words are able to sever and dispel the spidery web of illusion, infatuation and ignorance. This I have seen myself and realized in my own heart. Yes, in my heart!' (Excerpt from M’s discourse at Shri Sant Yogashram, New Delhi, India - November 9, 1990 - Published in : ‘Life Force’ Volume 7, Issue 2, April-June 1991 - by : Divine United Organization, Shri Sant Yogashram, Shahurpur, Mehrauli, New Delhi 110 030, India) How do you get away with that one? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 09:15:17 (EDT)
From: Mary Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Rob, you WERE there Message: Hi JM, I sure hope barf bags are dispensed on the jet! The radiance radiated from my beloved is of suds an amazing hue ... Me thinks Pastor/Private Investor/Rawat couldn't wait for his Calgon take me a way bubble bath! Suds.... Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 19:06:29 (EDT)
From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Rob Subject: symbology? - symbollocks! (nt) Message: weasel. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 23:40:36 (EDT)
From: cp Email: None To: Nigel Subject: If Bill Clinton can apologixe. Message: Mudlarky can. Old Bill got on tv and cried. Lots of pepole forgave him after that. A question. How long has this forum been in existence and at what point did M become aware of it and consequently became aware of the feelings and anger of his exs. I dont see how he can not address the issues brought up here and apologize for blowing it and giving some sort of compensation to those that gave a piece of their lives. And watches. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 05:29:04 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: cp Subject: If Bill Clinton can apologixe. Message: Dear cp, When I saw your subject I thought, hey yeah. If the president can pull together postive ratings after all the shit he did that SHOULD have been a clue to M that he could do the same. I wonder if that thought struck him when Bill was crying for all the world to see. I think they may have some similar 'hobbies' too! Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 22:51:31 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: cp Subject: Apologia Customized Menu Message: Hi cp, Ditto. There's no doubt some minion of M's keeps tabs on the forums activities. Look at what happened to Gail. She receives her 'Do Not Pass Go' card from Duhaney acting upon orders from God knows who. I'd lay odds it wasn't a lemming ... had to be a sharkster. I don't think any of the PWKs here will answer honestly why they are really here and who they report to. I'm beginning to think there's a PC somewhere that has a Customized Maharaji Apologia Menu. All they do is click on the proper command and voila... their post appears. Love, Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 20:46:53 (EDT)
From: JHB Email: None To: Rob Subject: For Rob - Let's Debate Message: Rob, In a thread below, you accuse Jim of presumption in using the words 'us' and 'we' when debating with you. I have never met Jim, rarely conversed with him and don't always agree with him. However, we do appear to share a similar understanding of logic. From your posts it seems unlikely that you and I share the same understanding, but I have some spare time over the next few days so I am willing to debate. Let's start by raising an issue that arose from a thread with Sandra regarding Maharaji's claim never to have been a Leader. Perhaps you could comment. If a person chooses to use language in a carefully prepared manner in a public forum, then that person has to respect the usual meaning of those words. To any objective observer, Maharaji is, and always has been, the leader of the group known as DLM or Elan Vital. At an event, all the videos feature him, he is the only speaker, there are videos and cassettes for sale featuring no one else but him, there are photographic art galleries featuring only pictures of him, and the only speaker is he himself. He decides when and where events happen. He is the only one allowed to dispense the only product available in the organisation, the 'knowledge'. He appoints all national co-ordinators, and all other senior positions in the organisation. He decides policy for the organisation. He decides how the organisation's money is spent. And everyone in the organisation jumps when he says jump. Now tell me, with sincerity, how it can be interpreted that he is not the leader. John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:57:38 (EDT)
From: Rob Email: None To: JHB Subject: Soon as I'm done eating! nt Message: chomp chomp chomp.... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 21:26:34 (EDT)
From: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Rob Subject: Soon as I'm done eating! nt Message: Dear Rob, Everytime I read a post from you, you seem like quite a pleasant man. :) Love, Robyn Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 21:46:23 (EDT)
From: Rob Email: None To: JHB Subject: 411 Message: John I can't seem to locate the original thread you're referring to, and I'm not familiar with the quote, can you point it out to me? thanks, Rob Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 23:15:19 (EDT)
From: JHB Email: None To: Rob Subject: 411 Message: Rob, There was a thread where Jim appeared to speak for a larger group when refering to his interaction with you. You quite reasonably questioned this, as there hadn't been any explicit evidence that Jim did speak for anyone else. I though I would try to engage you in debate so that you, and any observers, would see that Jim has no monopoly in debating with premies. (Nor do I think he wants one) My question regarding whether Maharaji was or is a leader arises from his claim on his website that he never was a leader. I find this impossible to reconcile with his history, and his current position. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this. Regards, John. PS. I asked you in an earlier thread if you ever lived in Leeds. Did you? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 23:22:52 (EDT)
From: Rob Email: None To: JHB Subject: 411 Message: John, Thanks. I was hoping that I would be able to draw others into the fray, as Jim, bless his heart, seems to hang onto one or two 'questions' like a pitbull with a neighbour's cat. I'll just zip over to M's site and have a read for myself, so it's not second- or third-hand quoting. Must have missed the Leeds question. No, I never lived there. Have visited on occasion, stayed for a couple of weeks at most. Grim little town and people talk funny, tha' knows. BRB Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 23:47:24 (EDT)
From: Here Email: None To: Rob Subject: it is Message: Quite a few people wanted to see me as a figurehead. I didn't want to be one and I am not one. A few others saw me as a leader, and I didn't want to be one and I am not one. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 23:51:25 (EDT)
From: JHB Email: None To: Here Subject: Yes, I know what he wrote. Message: Rob, I know the quote. Read my original post in the thread and defend M's quote. John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:18:07 (EDT)
From: Rob Email: None To: JHB Subject: Yes, I know what he wrote. Message: John, That wasn't me 'above' I've been busy with one of Jim's (for Nil and Rob....) Get back to you tomorrow, I'm on the East Coast so it's pretty late here. Rob Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:33:30 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Rob Subject: I confess Message: Guys, I just wanted to help. For once, John, I wasn't trying to hog the show. I'm sorry that Rob ended up answering my question instead of yours. The fact is, I can't wait to see how he tries to deal with this obvious hurdle. It is so basically, undeniably obvious that Maharaji's trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes by saying what he said about being a leader. That people do that, bullshit a bit for whatever reason, is no big deal. But that the Master himself does so on his own carefully presented web site, the platform he depends on for Phase II of all things, is amazing. But let's see what Rob says. Can't wait. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 12:05:04 (EDT)
From: JHB Email: None To: Rob Subject: Yes, I know what he wrote. Message: Rob, Sorry, I did assume it was you, following as it did you saying you were going to check the quotes. I eagerly await your response and let's just ignore Jim on this thread for a little while:-) John. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:02:48 (EDT)
From: Sandra Email: None To: Gail Subject: Reply to Gail Message: Hi Gail, I'm sorry that it became a 'guilt-ridden command performance' for you but that is a very honest and well articulated appraisal that only you could know about yourself. If it wasn't genuine for you then you're better off moving on and/or re-evaluating Maharaji at some future point when you can approach him as yourself and see if he really is an important character to you or not...not through the filter of your performance for him or all the easily accumulated I-should-be-this, he-should-do-that, this-book-said-this, the guy in the kitchen-said-that...that piles up and obscures what may be truly valuable about the whole thing. For what it's worth, when I've spent time around M, he doesn't respond to 'performances' (I know, I've done them,) but is delighted when people ARE themselves, no matter how eccentric or wacky they may be. That's when the fun really starts. As to your question, 'How do you explain all the people from the top who have left Maharaji? Bill Patterson, Gary Ockendon (sp), Jean-Michel, etc., etc. These folks had a chance to be really close to him.' The short answer is I don't know. I only know Bill and Gary a little bit from long ago and don't know what they're up to. Jean-Michel I don't believe I ever met or saw around M. I believe he was in the last instructor group before M pulled the plug on instructors. Why are others who've spent far more time around Maharaji still close to him...Ron Coletta, Linda Casden, John Miller etc.? I don't know the answer to that either. To be blunt, I don't think it's easy hanging around M at close range for a long time. The energy level is pretty ridiculous and the stamina required is not for the faint-hearted. I'm happy I get to see him at close range from time to time and not move at that pace. I probably couldn't handle it for too long. Finally, you said, 'If it is true, why can everything which took 25 years to build come apart in two days (for me).' I'll offer 2 answers and I don't know you, so forgive my speculation. One is that it's a love relationship not too dissimilar from a marriage. A marriage of 25 years can break up in one or two days even if one of the people involved just THOUGHT the other was cheating on them or had lied to them about something important...whether or not it was true, the damage would be done . That's real life. Of course, many couples would get through it, forgive each other or find out it was all a mental warp and go on. Others would be over, forever. The other possibility that occurs to me from what you wrote so honestly above is that you had gotten into a groove (or rut), going along with the 'party line' (which, of course, changed regularly) keeping up your 'performance' but not really tasting the goodies you and others were talking about...in short, partaking in the cultic aspects of this whole enchilada with only a glimmer of the original enchantment and inspiration sustained by the rote activities of the premie world. Then, you come across this page, read about all the horrible things M has supposedly done, have a big spotlight shone on the underbelly of all the worst aspects of the premie world (which, in reality, are the same as the ugly underbelly of the world, period) and hear endless testimonials from people who either hate M for whatever reason or never thought there was much to knowledge in the first place and are wondering, 'what the hell was I thinking 23 years ago!' etc. You look at your own life, see that you're just going through the motions and voila! It all starts to look extremely stupid and you start howling. Again, forgive me if I'm way off...just speculating here. Anyway, I appreciate your honesty and I hope whatever you do, you genuinely enjoy it and good fortune befalls you. Take care, Sandra Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:19:48 (EDT)
From: gerry Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Reply to Gail Message: M, he doesn't respond to 'performances' (I know, I've done them,) but is delighted when people ARE themselves, no matter how eccentric or wacky they may be. That's when the fun really starts. I'll bet he's just a wild a crazy guy! But wait! What's this? To be blunt, I don't think it's easy hanging around M at close range for a long time. The energy level is pretty ridiculous and the stamina required is not for the faint-hearted. I'm happy I get to see him at close range from time to time and not move at that pace. I probably couldn't handle it for too long. Can't stand to be around him. eh? THAT'S BECAUSE HE'S A PRICK AND SPOILED MEGLOMANIAC!!! (COPYRIGHT 1999) And then, this amazing admission: in short, partaking in the cultic aspects of this whole enchilada with only a glimmer of the original enchantment and inspiration sustained by the rote activities of the premie world. She ADMITS it's ''cultic'' and then says Gail got only a glimmer of ''enchantment=programming'' and your so called inspiration is sustained by the rote activities of the premie world.!!! Hello,,, Sandra,,, you hit it on the head here, sistuh! It's called reinforcing your programming!! Duh!!!!! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:26:12 (EDT)
From: So, just what are the Email: None To: all Subject: 'sustaining rote activities... Message: of the premie whirled'' as postulated by Sandra? 1) Meditation 2) Video viewing 3) Going to ''events'' 4) Others? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:26:44 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Reply to Gail Message: Then, you come across this page, read about all the horrible things M has supposedly done ... (emphasis added) Is your thought that Maharaji didn't do any 'horrible things' or that, even if he did you don't want to know or, better still, even if he did AND you knew,you wouldn't care? Does Maharaji have a mistress? Who is she? Only one? Only one at a time? When did he start screwing around? Was that before or after he disbanded his monastic order? Does Maharaji drink or smoke pot? Do any other drugs? How about that stupidest of all drugs, coke? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:30:49 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sorry, I forgot Message: Has Maharaji gotten wealthy off the donations he's sought for trying to bring 'peace' to the world? How wealthy? Is there any figure at all that would be great enough to make you cringe? No? Has Maharaji ever committed tax fraud? If so, when? Has Maharaji ever lied? If so, about what to whom? Does it matter? Did Maharaji arrange to have Fakiranand snuck out of the states after he tried to kill Pat Halley? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 16:51:40 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Sandra Subject: There you go again Message: Sandra: Having said this, 'The energy level is pretty ridiculous and the stamina required is not for the faint-hearted,' I am absolutely convinced that you believe there's some 'holy emanation' coming from M. You really do believe that the experience comes from outside or from M, if you prefer. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 18:36:30 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Reply to Gail Message: Thank you for your response. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 15:23:18 (EDT)
From: Sandra Email: None To: Gail Subject: to Gail - even shorter Message: Your welcome. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 19:42:55 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Reply to Sandra (2) Message: For what it's worth, when I've spent time around M, he doesn't respond to 'performances' (I know, I've done them,) but is delighted when people ARE themselves, no matter how eccentric or wacky they may be. That's when the fun really starts. That reminds me of Bob Kirby's story about going to some party at Maharaji's home about ten years ago. I think it was Durga Ji, the Goddess of Love's birthday. Bob, who was already starting to detest the perfect Hamster, was beginning to seethe at the sycophanticiousnessality of all the losers there because, of course, if one allows onesself to think for one's self, one clearly sees they're in the midst of a cult. Anyway, when Maharaji starting offering cake to people Bob did the unthinkable and declined. This is when it got interesting. Maharaji couldn't back down and tried to vibe Bob out, to stare him down, to force him to take that fucking piece of cake! Bob, if you know him, is nothing if not fiesty and he stood his ground in spades. Everyone around just smiled like a roomful of Brian Gaudets. Nervously. No, I didn't get the impression that Maharaji had much use for Bob's natural inclinations. Not the way he told it anyway. But of course, this cult thing is the oldest trick in the book. The cult leader smiles at you -- he's happy. He frowns -- he's full of love and is paintsakingly, masterfully, guiding you to your heart. He's deadpan -- it's a wildcard, depends how you slept the night before. (The funniest example of this I know is Charles Cameron's most pathetic chapter about his experiences first meeting Maharaji in India. Sheer Monty Python. Better.) Moving on, you mention that you don't know why some people who were so close to Maharaji moved on. I met with Ockendon and Donner last summer. Ockendon didn't have much to say, ever the diplomat I'm sure, just that he realized something wasn't right and split. Donner, who explained that Maharaji was ultimately just a little prick, complained that Maharaji used to bogart joints. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 19:59:43 (EDT)
From: Copta' Buzz Email: None To: Jim Subject: Reply to Sandra (2) Message: Maharaji used to bogart joints. Now that is unfortunate. I have my ethical standards and Mister GURU SIR, you have just crossed one of my boundries. WHAT A SELFISH, SNIVELING LITTLE PRICK YOU TURNED OUT TO BE!!! I won't have this! I won't! I won't! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 20:04:45 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: Jim Subject: Bob Kirby OT Message: What is Bob (that is the guy that used to be a plumber right?) up to these days? He was an intense guy in the ashram and a perfectionist on the physical plane which lead to all sorts of frustration. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:42:47 (EDT)
From: Oscar Email: None To: Jim Subject: Charles Cameron Message: Do you have that chapter by Charles Cameron? I would love to see it. I looked a Charles web site and he doesn't even mention M. He does mention A Tibetan Lama and a Native Indian Sharman though! Oscar Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 03:34:00 (EDT)
From: Sandra Email: None To: Jim Subject: Reply to Sandra (2b©Ý§†µ) Message: Hi Jim, I remember Bob Kirby, he was a funny little fella. If I was at the party where CakeGate happened I don't remember it. Ahhhh, Mike Donner. Now there's a well-known fountain of honesty for you. I could tell you plenty of stories about Mr. Donner but I'm not that much of a blab. Boy, if that joint story from '75 is true, maybe we should get Gordon Liddy and Edgar Hoover on it right away. I'd say that's grounds for crucifiction right there. (Crucifictions to the right!!) Imagine...having a drink or a joint with some friends...it boggles the mind. I know you'd never do anything like that, would you Jim? Hoping you find that Great Illchester with Chives of your dreams, Sandra Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 09:14:46 (EDT)
From: Tattoo Email: None To: everyone Subject: 2 Questions Message: 1) Wasn't The Maharaji in his early 20's when he started with the cross-dressing in Philadelphia, thus, negating the claim that he only thought he was the Lord as a young boy and early adolescent? 2) Given the cross-dressing, how could J. Edgar focus on a pot smoking investigation from 1975? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 14:59:14 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Sandra Subject: That's pathetic, Sandra Message: Talk about classic ad hominem red-herring bullshit. Whether or not you like Donner (I don't; I found him to be far too new-age smug, full of himself, uninformed) the question is, is he lying? If he's not Maharaji's a very fucked hypocrite. My pot consumption is irrelevant. I never imposed a drug-free regime on my followers. Or didn't you see that difference? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 15:52:33 (EDT)
From: Sandra Email: None To: Jim Subject: Find a new word Message: It was called the ashram. It was voluntary. Most premies never lived in it. Maharaji NEVER claimed to live that lifestyle or pretended to. Yes, it was offered to people as an alternative. You should be smart enough to make that distinction. It's a dead line of reasoning (hypocrisy) unless he said 'that's the way I live' which he never did. Not even in Hindi. Sorry you lost years of your sex life but it was your choice. Doesn't your prosecution ever rest? Now I'm going back out into the sun. Sandra P.S. Not surprising to hear Donner's still smug. He usually was. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 16:42:58 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Find your conscience Message: It was called the ashram. It was voluntary. Most premies never lived in it. Maharaji NEVER claimed to live that lifestyle or pretended to. Yes, it was offered to people as an alternative. You should be smart enough to make that distinction. It's a dead line of reasoning (hypocrisy) unless he said 'that's the way I live' which he never did. Not even in Hindi. Sorry you lost years of your sex life but it was your choice. Doesn't your prosecution ever rest? Now I'm going back out into the sun. Sandra Maybe the anonymity of this medium lets you say this kind of garbage. It really is insulting and, yes, it's a challenge keeping one's temper talking to people like you. Insulting? Well, I'll say it as simply as I can: I thought there was a lot of pressure to move into the ashram at various stages of the cult's history; there sure was a lot of pressure through almost all that time to never leave once in. That's what I thought anyway. So you're just calling me an idiot, I guess. Yeah, I'd say that's kind of hard to take. See, if you're right -- just pretend for a moment you are. I know you don't really think so but just bear with me for a moment -- if you're right, then I must be the biggest fool around. Boy, waking up to that fact is pretty hard, you know. Go easy on me, Sandra. Help me understand. I moved out of the ashram after I'd been in it about a year. I didn't doubt Maharaji at all then. I just wanted to somehow have my cake and eat it too. I wanted to not just see Maharaji in everything, I wanted to be able to play with everything too. But somehow I started feeling really guilty the moment I moved out. I was staying at my mother's in Toronto, going to satsang, still trying to 'surrender' and 'realize knowledge'. It was hard. But, there again, it was probably just my confusion I guess. Three months later I moved into a strict premie house while I waited to be accepted back into the ashram. Once back in, I felt like I was giving Maharaji back what I'd tried to sneak away from him: my life. I felt like a devotee again. As we know -- sorry, as I thought I knew until reading your post -- Maharaji gave some very heavy and clear satsangs over the next few years that made me fel that there really was no option but to try to dedicate one hundred per cent and that that was only feasible in the ashram. It was like this, if you were already in, the only thing that could take you out was your mind (or so I thought). So there was no leaving again. Better just try to surrender more and more and more and more. But now, if you're right, that was all my imagination. Maharaji didn't really tell us in his closed-ashram satsang in Kissimmee that there was nothing but hell waiting for us 'out there' if we ever left. I just misunderstood. Right? Similarly, it was foolish of me to think Maharaji's 'no drug' policy in the ashram was a reflection of his personal values or direction. Sandra, if you're right about this then I was completely dumb. I guess us exes are the dummies who really never got it. Is that it? So you can see why it's so infuriating talking with you. It's so challenging. You show us up to be the lummoxes we really are. Thanks. P.S. Not surprising to hear Donner's still smug. He usually was. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 23:16:59 (EDT)
From: Memphis Belle Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Reply to Gail Message: Hello, I do not post here too often. But, I would like to tell you about my experience with Maharaji In 1997 I started going to videos to listen to Maharaji. After 6 months, I asked for the gift of Knowlegde. Then for 6 months, I gave Knowledge a fair chance, I did service (actually very extensive hours and technical detailed work that you hear all the time in videos), and I kept in touch every other day at videos at the hall. Then at the Long Beach Event 1997, something happened to my heart. It was when he asked me or 'us in the hall' to remember him at the moment of our last breath. He said, 'remember me'. And I realized that I choose to 'look to' God, not 'remember' Maharaji. So in the end of 1997, I struggled with trying to 'get lost'. And I must say, it is wonderful being 'lost' in God's beautiful garden. The reason why I wanted to post to you, is because there is this whole thing about the ex-premies from 20-25 years ago and all of their 'baggage'. I hardly gave any money to Maharji. I haven't lost any loved ones. There is no hate. I only question him being God. Gail is a wonderful person who has great strength to come out of it carrying all those suitcases. Anyway, I thought you might like to know about the 90's generation of ex-premiedom. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 22:26:17 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: mishkat@gateway.net To: Memphis Belle Subject: Great Post, Memphis! (*best*?) Message: Thanks very much for describing your own experience so well. I don't have much influence with Mr. Roger Drek :), but I think your post deserves a *best*! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 03:22:13 (EDT)
From: Roger Slow Drek Email: None To: Katie Subject: soon *best* (nt) Message: asdf Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 14:25:23 (EDT)
From: Memphis Belle Email: None To: Katie Subject: Great Post, Memphis! (*best*?) Message: Katie, I am glad to keep posting that I am not from the 70's. It should be made clear that even today in the 90's, as refined as Elan Vital tries to be, something still seems fishy. You see, I never knew about arshrams (sp?), never knew about darshan (sp?), I never even knew about him claiming to be lord of the universe. I just knew in my heart that something was off balance, everyone was looking to M as the 'One' the 'Boss'. Memphis Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 17:03:45 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: mishkat@gateway.net To: Memphis Belle Subject: Thanks, Memphis Belle! Message: Hey Memphis! I know you're not really a southern gal, but I kind of am (born in DC, raised in Virginia) so I like addressing you that way. I have always really liked your posts - they're honest and sincere, and it's great to get a 90's premie viewpoint. Thanks again! Take care, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 03:10:45 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Un-plugging human beings Message: I believe he was in the last instructor group before M pulled the plug on instructors. This is what made me sick about m and his trip: how can a person (a master) so easyly un-plug so many people so many times from what they've invested so much in? Ashram, 'service', instructorship, etc. If you've surrendered to such a person, you must be really sick. You need a psychiastrist. So many premies do also, specially those from the closest circles, IMHO. M is an abusive/authoritarian dictator, as you've stated so well. When I realized this, during the course of my therapy, I left immediately. Nothing to add to what you've said, this summarizes all! Thanks a lot for your cooperation. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 12:23:53 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Not to mention Message: JM: Unplugging us from LIFE. Memphis makes a great point that she 'loved everybody' prior to M's influence. That isn't an easy thing to get back, either. When I look back to my days prior to M, I really get mad at myself for falling into this line of tripe. I was much the same, in that I liked/loved just about everyone. I had a pretty good life, but M convinced me that it wasn't 'good enough.' When I started to direct my attention in his direction, I started not caring about anyone/anything else; not even other premies. I should have seen the 'red flags' flying, but didn't! Simply put, M is full of crap and his idea of existence is as sterile as it gets and is the absolute antithesis to anything that can be referred to as a 'spiritual lifestyle.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 13:53:08 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Sandra Subject: Reply to Gail Message: One is that it's a love relationship not too dissimilar from a marriage This is the way premies spoke in the 70s and 80s, but isn't the party line anymore. I know for me the 'love' I felt for M while I was a premie was really a fantasy. I, and 99% of the premies, do not know Maharaji well enough to 'love' him. That makes no sense. No, the party line now is that premies say they feel 'gratitude' to Maharaji for having been revealed knowledge, even though the vast majority didn't even receive knowledge from Maharaji, but from somem Mahatma/instructor. But a 'love' relationship based on 'gratitude' isn't a 'love' relationship, it's something else. Obviously, if, like me, after trying to practice knowledge exactly the way Maharaji prescribed for 10 years, I realized it didn't work, and that actually I found Maharaji and the things he did rather repulsive, it's a pretty good reason so split. And it wasn't a 'party line' I was following either, although that is a popular rationalization among premies as well. It was Maharaji's directions. So either they were pretty incompetent, a pretty incompetent 'master' or they just didn't work -- right out of the mouth of the perfect master who was asking that I dedicate and surrender my life to him. Then, you come across this page, read about all the horrible things M has supposedly done, have a big spotlight shone on the underbelly of all the worst aspects of the premie world (which, in reality, are the same as the ugly underbelly of the world, period) Well this is very interesting. My how the mighty aspirations have come crashing down. Many of us got involved based on Maharaji's promises that the world really would be different among premies who were experiencing THAT LOVE. It didn't happen. Kinda destroyed the idea that Maharaji and his 'knowledge' would have any effect whatsoever on bringing peace to the world, despite his promises to that effect. I got involved because I wanted to be a part of bringing peace to the whole world and to help aleviate suffering. My experience has been, however, that premies suffer as much, if not more, than other people I have known. They also tend to be more back-stabbing and vindictive people. You say you stay away from that and that's good, but what it indicates to me is that the 'experience' these people are having isn't true, because it doesn't manifest externally, despite the fact that Maharaji used to promise it would. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 18:28:12 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: JW Subject: Amen! Message: Well said, JW! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:24:28 (EDT)
From: Oscar Wilde Email: None To: All Subject: Friendly Giant Message: Talking about Love made me think that in the old days I was pretty good at not judging and loving people. Then M came along and all my love was directed at him and I didn't know how to love people anymore. It reminds me of the Oscar Wilde Tale that M tells these days. How the Giant learned the true meaning of Love by giving the jewels in his eyes to the poor and needy in the city. M could learn a thing or two about love from this instead of using this story to get premies to love him more and to love others and even ourselves less. He pretends to teach us how to love ourselves but really he wants us to love him only. Oscar Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 12:42:18 (EDT)
From: Bruce Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Personality Profile of Jim Message: PERSONALITY PROFILE OF JIM HELLER: This is a public service announcement for all users of ex-premie.org. I have taken the liberty of undertaking a personality profile of Jim Heller. I hope this profile helps you in your understanding of Jim and his future postings. - I called Jim a mean spirited asshole once but he didn't seem to mind. That's when I twigged to the fact that Jim doesn't mind what you say about him, or what you call him, as long as he remains THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. That's the key to his personality right there, always to be the center of attention. - Jim also thinks he has a monopoly on how people are supposed to be, which curiously makes him a Lord of the Universe. 'Live and let live,' is a totally foreign concept to him. Jim wants to dominate everyone and rule the world, and this web site is just the first step. It must irk him to hell to see Maharaji up there on the big chair WHEN IT SHOULD BE HIM! That's where he gets his anger from. - Jim is basically a nasty person, whose primary aim is not truth or logic but rather to make incendiary comments and spew his hate filled vitriol, which or course is how he gets to be the center of attention. A friend of mine said he could see curious parallels between Jim and Eric Harris of Columbine High School in Littleton Colorado, but I definitely don't agree. Jim may be addicted to hate but I don't think he's THAT crazy. - Jim also thinks he's giving us good news, but the only good news I've heard him say so far is that he and Laurie aren't going to have kids. Thank God for that! But of course Jim doesn't believe in God, i.e., any God other than Jim. He is the judge, the arbiter of the way things are SUPPOSED to be. - On a personal note, I hate to admit it, but I'm glad Jim got punched out at the satellite event. Serves him right! Those who live by the sword die by the sword. He should head down to a mosque, and tell the people coming that he thinks Mohammed is full of shit. That would be interesting. - Lastly, one really disturbing thing about Jim is that he has an engaging personality and is definitely clever. He can actually be fun to be with in a toxic sort of way. But all in all, Jim Heller is just another brick in the wall. Sincerely, Bruce Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 12:58:34 (EDT)
From: Mike Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Personality Profile of Jim Message: Bruce: I just love the sweeping generalizations and lack of data in your diagnosis. You must be one of the new breed of psychologist/psychiatrist, right? I found your assessment of Jim as 'just another brick in the wall' particularly insightful. By the way, the only fixation that appears to be happening is the TOTAL fixation of premies on this particular individual. I would refer to it as obsessive/compulsive. Why don't you try fixating on your own personal 'southern hemisphere,' at least THAT is closer to normal behavior. My apologies to the followers of Freud, for using the term 'southern-hemisphere.' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 12:59:47 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Personality Profile of Bruce Message: I'm shocked, quite frankly! Isn't this rather like the pot calling the kettle black? The preceding doesn't become you. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 13:08:16 (EDT)
From: Marianne Email: None To: Gail Subject: Personality Profile of Jim Message: Bruce: Your post is mean spirited and unkind. It is also untrue. If you don't want to communicate with Jim, ignore him. Engaging in this type of deeply personal attack is completely uncalled for. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 13:36:23 (EDT)
From: Dr Reich Email: None To: Marianne Subject: My analysis of Bruce Message: The hysterical character, such as Bruce, has reached the genital level but with anxiety. Thus there is genitality, but genitality which cannot be accepted. Complete sexual satisfaction is not possible, so there is never a complete discharge of energy. This leads to stasis, which only increases the turmoil and results in an organism which is alive, but restless and flighty. Bruce has a tendency to be strongly suggestible and to alter his behavior in unplanned and unexpected ways, together with strong disappointment reactions. They swing from compliance to quick deprecation and groundless disparagement. Suggestibility predisposes to flights of imagination as well as hypnosis and pathological lying. This may manifest itself in two ways: (1) Frantic behavior, such as hysterical fits, laughing, crying, running about, and delirium, frantic sexual behavior, or tics. (2) Calm behavior, in the repressed block, such as paralysis and withdrawal. Overt homosexual activity may be involved in this case. This is not true homosexuality, but is due to a deep fear of the opposite sex and to suggestibility, which allows him to comply with homosexual advances. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 13:48:47 (EDT)
From: JW Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Personality Profile of Jim Message: You are one arrogant, self-centered individual. Did you learn this from parents? My questions to anyone who would write something like that is: WHO RAISED YOU? They should be ashamed, whoever they are. I twigged to the fact that Jim doesn't mind what you say about him, or what you call him, as long as he remains THE CENTER OF ATTENTION If you believe this, why did you just post this which MAKES Jim the 'center of attention?' Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 14:11:31 (EDT)
From: barney Email: None To: Bruce Subject: character assassination Message: Bruce, I'm really tempted to just put this entire thread into the dumpster for the reason that it is completely Off Topic. You're post is simply a very childish character assassination and does not deal with the topic that the Forum is intended for, Maharaji. Yes, it's pretty easy to pull out comments like the Columbine High School situation, Jim not planning on having children, etc. to make your Off Topic point. Sure, you'll say that we do the same thing to your beloved Maharaji. However, don't you think that there might be a significant difference between Jim and Maharaji? Has Jim ever alluded to being greater than God? Does Jim urge his worship? Does Jim ask for our lives and money? So, you pull out the character assassination because Jim so easily pokes holes in your thin arguments to defend Maharaji's blatant fraudulent activities. Yup, a total deflection of the real issues, disinformation, and plain old lame. I'll let the thread stand because your post is yet another example of what extremes premies will go to defend their Lord, their Master, their Guru Maharaji. Bruce, I hope that you don't have a Fakiranand brand hammer. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 14:26:01 (EDT)
From: gerry Email: None To: barney Subject: character assassination Message: Fakiranand brand hammer. (TM) (patent pending) Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 14:42:47 (EDT)
From: Richard Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Pathetic Bruce... Message: Bruce, this dissing of Jim says a whole lot more about YOU than it does about Jim. regards Richard Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 14:56:42 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: mishkat@gateway.net To: Bruce Subject: Net Persona vs a Real Person Message: Dear Bruce, (and by the way, are you Bruce P. from Australia? If not, you probably oughta know that the name 'Bruce' has already been used here by someone else.) Obviously, you have strong feelings about what Jim posts here. But presenting these feelings as absolute statements about Jim as a person, rather than your personal opinion, is pretty arrogant, in MY personal opinion. I don't think ANYONE can analyze someone's personality from posts they read on a web forum. There are so many layers of filters - since a post is something someone types on their own computer wherever, and you read (and interpret) on your computer wherever. You don't see what the person looks like, can't hear their tone of voice, interpret their body language, and so forth. I've found that even if someone is not trying to present a 'persona' on the net, one tends to develop one. I've seen this with my own posts and with those of others. I've met several of the people who post here and they are, necessarily, much more multi-faceted and HUMAN than they appear when you're just reading the words they type on a keyboard. I've also found that my mental images of what the person looks like can be completely wrong. After I have met someone who posts here in 'real life', I have found that I read their posts very differently. If you don't like Jim's posts, or the tone of his posts, or the attitudes expressed therein, or whatever, that's fine, and you're entitled to say so. But I don't think you OR anyone else here can or should attempt to analyze someone's character or personality solely from words read from a computer screen. Sincerely, Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 18:18:10 (EDT)
From: Bruce Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Why I wrote Message: Such righteous indignation. My God! You've had someone you love and respect dumped on and you don't like it. Hmmmm. I wonder if there is a lesson to be learned from this? Actually only Jim will recognize the tongue-in-cheekness of my posting. I just had to send it though because I WANTED TO TEACH YOU BASTARDS A LESSON! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 18:42:20 (EDT)
From: Mary M Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Why I wrote Message: Bruce, So what? I WANTED TO TEACH YOU BASTARDS A LESSON! Yes suh massa bruce. How's the church of Elan Vital doing? Mary Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 18:51:28 (EDT)
From: Gail Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Why I wrote Message: Come on, Bruce. I know what youre saying, but have you considered this: If MJ hadn't convinced Jim he was the LOTU, Jim wouldn't have followed him for 10 years as one of his monks; consequently, Jim wouldn't be posting on this forum. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 03:16:05 (EDT)
From: Magnificent Martian Email: None To: Katie Subject: Bruce vs Bruce Message: Katie: This could not... possibly be... the same beloved... Bruceykins from... Australia. Do you... see what I'm... driving at? MM Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 12:21:20 (EDT)
From: Katie Email: None To: Magnificent Martian Subject: Bruce vs Bruce Message: Hi MM - Bruce from Australia...was...not...one of those...people who are extraordinarily...fond of writing...with ellipses... He was actually a pretty literate and well-spoken person. I don't think THIS Bruce is Bruce from Australia either though - but for different reasons. Take care - Katie Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 15:57:27 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Too funny! Message: Bruce, You're hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. Want to come to my birthday party this year? I wasn't sure I was going to have one (things have been kind of tight what with all the time I spend here eating into my work time not to mention my direct payment committments), but your post makes me think that I really should invite all my friends up here this year. What do you say, Bruce? Love, Jim Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 20:45:29 (EDT)
From: gregg Email: None To: bruce Subject: let's talk about jim Message: A forum like this allows for many different approaches, I guess. So, to put this gently, could you try to be as tolerant of Jim's focused and intense argumentation as I am trying to be of your personal attacks? Or not? Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 01:46:42 (EDT)
From: Oscar Email: None To: Jim Subject: Bruce - M's chauffeur Message: Maybe Bruce is the Bruce seen in videos driving M? Oscar Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 15:02:15 (EDT)
From: Bruce Email: None To: Jim Subject: Too funny! Message: So Jim have I been cut off from viewing the Forum? You have the right to do that because you don't like unpleasantness. I guess that's where you and I agree. Neither do I. Thanks for your invitation to your party. I have a sneaking suspicion what we'd talk about, and I'd rather be doing something else in beautiful Victoria than hear you ranting and obsessing about Maharaji. You left Maharaji in 1981, almost 19 years ago. I don't get it. Has it ever occurred to you that you might be doing something else with your life, something more enjoyable? Because I think Maharaji is going to stick around, if not M then Shibendu Lahiri, Deepak Chopra, Maharishi all those sufi, vipassana, and Tibetan guys. All these guys are going to stick around because people are thirsty for experience, that inner experience, the jewel of emptiness that brings relaxation and relief. People are always going to hunger after that at least some people. Most people are satisfied with material things. I re-read my note Personality Profile of Jim and it was quite hurtful. I apologise for that. However I still value the experience of Knowledge and vipassana. I find I need that inner quietness, it adds a quality to my life that television just doesn't. If it's okay with you I wouldn't mind tuning into your site from time to time. The universe is unfolding as it should, I suppose. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 03:46:24 (EDT)
From: AJW Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Centre of Attention. Message: Hi Bruce, What's so bad about wanting to be the centre of attention? That's what I'm after most of the time. What's wrong with wanting to rule the world? I'd love a go at that. The best humour is toxic. I knew someone who punched someone in an argument in a pub carpark. He knocked the guy over with one punch, the guy hit his head on the floor and died. He ended up in prison for murder. This ruined lots of lives in a couple of seconds. Punching people is a fucking idiotic, moronic thing to do, and so is encouraging it. Anth the Meglomaniacal Hippy. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 20:26:50 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave Email: None To: AJW Subject: Centre of Attention. Message: There's a country in Europe where they go in for slapping which I think is a lot more civilised. Anyway, punching hurts your hand. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 19:56:30 (EDT)
From: nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Bruce Subject: Envy? Message: My, my, Bruce, that's quite a bee you got under that bushwacker bonnet, innit? What's your problem exactly? Is there something lurking in your unconscious you haven't quite come to terms with? You don't even need to be here, remember, what with you're having the keys to the kingdom. Is eternal liberation from the maya starting to get you down? Perhaps that the reason you have to spout this incessant vitriol at somebody who is, after all, just a single contributor to web-board that only 0.00000000001% of the world's population even looks at, is that he echoes you own true thoughts about Mr Rawat - if you would but admit it. PERSONALITY PROFILE OF JIM HELLER: This is a public service announcement for all users of ex-premie.org. I have taken the liberty of undertaking a personality profile of Jim Heller. I hope this profile helps you in your understanding of Jim and his future postings. You're starting to sound like a pompous idiot again. - I called Jim a mean spirited asshole once but he didn't seem to mind. That's when I twigged to the fact that Jim doesn't mind what you say about him, or what you call him, as long as he remains THE CENTER OF ATTENTION. That's the key to his personality right there, always to be the center of attention. You could probably say the same about anybody who keeps starting new threads just to attack another forum contributor... - Jim also thinks he has a monopoly on how people are supposed to be, which curiously makes him a Lord of the Universe. 'Live and let live,' is a totally foreign concept to him. Jim wants to dominate everyone and rule the world, and this web site is just the first step. It must irk him to hell to see Maharaji up there on the big chair WHEN IT SHOULD BE HIM! That's where he gets his anger from. Wouldn't you say Marahaji (who, after all, is the person this forum is all about - not Jim, nor even you) thinks he has a 'monopoly on how people are supposed to be?' He certainly admitted his intention of 'ruling the world'. I could give you the quotes. - Jim is basically a nasty person, whose primary aim is not truth or logic but rather to make incendiary comments and spew his hate filled vitriol, [is there any other kind?] which or course is how he gets to be the center of attention. A friend of mine said he could see curious parallels between Jim and Eric Harris of Columbine High School in Littleton Colorado, but I definitely don't agree. Jim may be addicted to hate but I don't think he's THAT crazy. We know what Jim cares about, more or less. What do you care about, Bruce - apart from the defence of the good name of your multi-millionaire Superior Power in Person? The truth, maybe? - Jim also thinks he's giving us good news, but the only good news I've heard him say so far is that he and Laurie aren't going to have kids. Thank God for that! But of course Jim doesn't believe in God, i.e., any God other than Jim. He is the judge, the arbiter of the way things are SUPPOSED to be. Now you're starting to sound REALLY stupid, insecure, vindictive - like somebody who desperately needs to get a life. - On a personal note, [like, what have you ever posted here that wasn't?] I hate to admit it, but I'm glad Jim got punched out at the satellite event. Serves him right! Those who live by the sword die by the sword. He should head down to a mosque, and tell the people coming that he thinks Mohammed is full of shit. That would be interesting. I suspect he probably would if a living Mohammed's preposterous claims had caused him to spend ten years of his life in an ashram, not to mention the suicide of a close friend. - Lastly, one really disturbing thing about Jim is that he has an engaging personality and is definitely clever. He can actually be fun to be with in a toxic sort of way. But all in all, Jim Heller is just another brick in the wall. Careful, Bruce - you're giving a bit too much away here... Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 14:01:11 (EDT)
From: Bruce Email: None To: nigel Subject: Answer to Envy Message: Nigel, Was Jim forced to move into the ashram at gunpoint? And as far as suicide goes, that's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I'm human like everyone else and I get tired of ex-premies slagging Maharaji. If you don't like Maharaji or Knowledge just walk. And if you and Jim want to attack evil in the world go after some bikers, organized crime figures, or corporations destroying the environment. Check my June 13 note to Jim. Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 14:54:32 (EDT)
From: JHB Email: None To: Bruce Subject: Organised Crime Figure Message: If you don't like Maharaji or Knowledge just walk. And if you and Jim want to attack evil in the world go after some bikers, organized crime figures, or corporations destroying the environment. I thought we were going after an organised crime figure! And that plane of his certainly doesn't improve the environment! John the Untouchable Return to Index -:- Top of Index |
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Date: Thurs, Jun 10, 1999 at 08:57:19 (EDT)
From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: More unimportant t/w Rob Message: So, typically, Rob obfuscates as only a captive mind can. I'd said this: 'how do you think your general impression on people here is evolving? Do you think people respect you much? How about compared to, oh, last week for instance? And if, by chance, you think your reputation's degenerating (my personal opinion -- that is I believe that your general reputation's on the decline for sure), is it all my fault?' That's fairly straight-forward, don't you think? He already knows what I think of him, that he's dishonest and cowardly when it comes to discussing his cult leader. So I'm just opening things up a bit for a 'reality check', so to speak. Asking him what kind of impression others here have gained of him. Simple, right? Okay, tell me if you can detect anything that even approaches an answer in his reply: Well I wasn't planning on applying for the webmaster's job, and I don't expect to be on anybody's Christmas card list. I didn't come here expecting to make friends, nor to impress people. Again, you're describing dynamics that only exist in your head. Respect? Reputation? Tell me Jim, who am I? What colour is my hair? What is my occupation? How do I like my eggs? You're anthropomorphizing the text on your screen. If this were the Oxford Debating Society, perhaps those things would count for something. No, of course not. Now is that because my question was so difficult? Noooooo. So why wouldn't Rob answer? I'll tell you why: because he doesn't like the answer. A more honest person would concede his weaknesses and deal with them. Rob's a premie. Rob had also attacked me, a la Shp (and most every other dumb-assed cult member I've argued with here) that I'm subjecting him to 'Jim Logic'. So I said: 'Tell me something, do you really think you fool anyone with your attack on 'Jim's Logic'?' His answer?: More emotive words: fool...attack. I think I made a fair comment in that I beleive your reasoning is underpinned by your agenda. Perhaps I should add that it's something we all do, consciously or otherwise. Yes, here's the phase where we get the brilliant premie analysis of the many 'hidden persuaders' we(I) use. Next we'll get Rob's expertise in the mystical arts of NLP and, if we're lucky, he might stick around long enough to do our colours. (Rob, am I a Fall person?) Rob, I dare you to find one instance where my reasoning isn't reasonable irrespective of my 'agenda'. Come on, show me one little blind spot in my logic, one place where my agenda's gotten the best of me. See, you premie assholes always do this. It's not enough that you're not able to converse openly and clearly about Maharaji, you have to project that weakness onto everyone else. God, I hate your trip! Then we have the next typical premie dance, playing dumb: Sometimes I just don't see what you're driving at, and therefore head off in the wrong direction. I'm not a mind reader. 'But what if he is/isn't the Lord?' In respect of what? My decision to stay with him? His 'reputation' in the world? The way Knowledge is being presented now? See what I mean, there are many avenues that can be explored from either of those two scenarios, I'm just not sure which one you are most interested in. Taek your pick, Rob, dumb or evasive. I'd asked you about Maharaji claiming to be God. Your answer was 'well what if he is?' I said fine, in that case, we're 'hooped'. I then asked you, conversely, waht if he isn't? You know damn well what I meant! But I'll play along with your silly game; it's not as if I don't deal with this kind of evasion regularly 'at work'. I'll spell it out for you: he claimed to be God. If he isn't God, what does that say about his credibility? Big surprise, eh Rob? Didn't mean to floor you like that. I mean, of course, how could you have seen that coming? Sorry I couldn't have been a little more gentle. You okay? Then we have the choicest bullshit in your whole post. I'd asked you how you could pretend to still be up for any sort of meaningful discussion here if you were so comfotable hiding behind your 'boundaries': 'There are also questions you refuse to explore (your 'boundaries', remember?)' Your answer shows how little your mind is engaged. Oh Lord, please give me a premie to talk with who doesn't make absurd analogies!: So why can't you respect that? I don't beleive it's at all uncommon for people to have boundaries in some aspects of their lives. I can tell you I'm married, that my wife is beautiful, that we get along fine, but I wouldn't go into bedroom details. I can tell you I'm financially comfortable, but I won't fax you my bank statement. I can tell you I spoke with Maharaji recently, but I won't tell you what was said. So if (I) won't go there, then let the discussion go elsewhere. Rob, you stupid, stupid jerk, you're not fucking Maharaji or sharing a bank account with him, are you? Those are private matters (in most cases, anyway). The places you won't go are just the logical destinations in a very impersonal discussion about whether or not Maharaji's a fraud. Boundaries? Yeah, your boundaries are all the places where you can't think of an answer. Ready? Really, are you ready Rob? Ready for what you asked for? Ready for the natural reaction to your cult-thinking? Okay, just for you: Go fuck yourself! Return to Index -:- Top of Index |