Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 52

From: Jun 10, 1999

To: Jun 19, 1999

Page: 3 Of: 5



toby -:- help others not get trapped -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 03:00:06 (EDT)
__cp -:- Are you saying you would take -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 06:24:29 (EDT)
__Sir Dave -:- help others not get trapped -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 09:23:25 (EDT)
____Helen -:- help others not get trapped -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 15:07:42 (EDT)
______Sir Dave -:- A heart of metal -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 19:04:05 (EDT)
________Helen -:- A heart of metal -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 22:36:19 (EDT)
________Marianne -:- A heart of metal -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 23:20:29 (EDT)
__Richard -:- help others not get trapped -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 13:19:15 (EDT)
____cp -:- help others not get trapped -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 18:09:23 (EDT)

Rob -:- Funny -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 00:34:25 (EDT)
__JF -:- Pathetic -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 00:54:55 (EDT)
____Rob -:- Wassup? -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 01:06:41 (EDT)
______JF -:- you're a slimeball... -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 01:45:25 (EDT)
________JF -:- Thunderstorms for MTL.!! -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 02:37:29 (EDT)
__________Catweasel -:- Thunderstorms on the ex site -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 03:57:40 (EDT)
____________JF -:- And lightning up your ass! -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 07:03:28 (EDT)
__________Rob -:- Thunderstorms for MTL.!! -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:03:51 (EDT)
________Rob -:- I'm a slimeball ???? -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:01:15 (EDT)
______JF -:- More bullshit Rob?! -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 06:41:18 (EDT)
________Rob -:- More bullshit Rob?! -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:18:00 (EDT)
__JHB -:- You didn't reply -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 05:06:23 (EDT)
____Rob -:- You didn't reply -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:19:18 (EDT)
______Rob -:- Now I have. -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 18:10:43 (EDT)
________Jim -:- Liar!! -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 18:33:10 (EDT)
__JHB -:- Another non-reply -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 05:30:14 (EDT)
____Rob -:- Another non-reply -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:26:40 (EDT)
__JF -:- and still more bullshit! -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 07:48:04 (EDT)
____Rob -:- and still more bullshit! -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:35:44 (EDT)
______JF -:- And there's no end to it! -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 18:43:02 (EDT)
________Rob -:- ...from either side. -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 23:14:08 (EDT)
__________Jim -:- I agree, Rob -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 00:46:51 (EDT)
____________Rob -:- thanks -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 01:32:46 (EDT)

Just say, you've got mail -:- Email, or in-Site message box. -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 00:29:36 (EDT)

Mary M -:- Sandra & JB - Replies? -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 22:21:49 (EDT)
__Mary M -:- PS TO JB -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 22:36:50 (EDT)
____cp -:- Ohmygosh---toooo ripe! FLINT!! -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 06:40:00 (EDT)
______Mary -:- Ohmygosh---toooo ripe! FLINT!! -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 08:37:51 (EDT)
__Sandra -:- Sandra & JB - Replies? -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 15:39:52 (EDT)
____Mary M -:- Ole' 22 skiddoo Sandra ? (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 16:50:29 (EDT)
____JHB -:- You're wrong about Premlata -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 20:12:42 (EDT)
____Jim -:- A simple test, Sandra -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 22:40:26 (EDT)
______Jim -:- Sorry, I forgot the test -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 22:41:56 (EDT)
______I am going to DIE. -:- A simple test -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 03:55:49 (EDT)
________been beyond -:- A simple test -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 05:30:07 (EDT)
____Victoria -:- Q&A at 13 -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 23:26:35 (EDT)
____Mary -:- Stitch his lips shut then! -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 23:28:37 (EDT)
______Dr. Roger Drek -:- stainless steel staples -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 15:49:18 (EDT)
__JB -:- JB - Replies? -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 16:42:52 (EDT)
____Mary M -:- JB - Replies? -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 17:43:27 (EDT)

Catweasel -:- Field size -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 21:16:14 (EDT)
__Gregg -:- Field size -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 21:49:38 (EDT)
__Jim -:- You're lucky at that -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 21:52:49 (EDT)
____Catweasel -:- You're lucky at that -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 03:35:27 (EDT)
______JHB -:- You're wrong and scared. -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 05:13:10 (EDT)
________Catweasel -:- You're Lost and scarred. -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 05:32:33 (EDT)
__________JHB -:- OK - Lets Debate -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 09:29:29 (EDT)
__________Mike -:- You're Lost and scarred. -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 15:32:27 (EDT)
____________Catweasel -:- You're Lost and scarred. -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 04:15:49 (EDT)
__nigel -:- Field size -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 03:48:47 (EDT)
____Catweasel -:- Field size -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 04:13:11 (EDT)
______Nigel -:- Not a democracy issue. -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 07:24:05 (EDT)
__Mr Magoo -:- 'ROAD HOG!' nt -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 06:53:24 (EDT)
__Brian -:- Field-size envy -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 08:43:34 (EDT)
____Catweasel -:- Field-size envy -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 04:31:19 (EDT)
______Jim -:- Ha ha ha!!!!!!!! -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 11:29:48 (EDT)
________Catweasel -:- Ho,Ho,Ho???? -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 06:06:29 (EDT)
__Sir Dave -:- Depth of field -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 13:50:17 (EDT)
__AJW -:- Field size -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 14:11:08 (EDT)
__barney -:- you're on probation -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 04:37:24 (EDT)
____Elfie -:- you're on probation -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 12:10:46 (EDT)
______barney -:- It's automagic -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:41:51 (EDT)

Honey -:- Let's Make a Deal -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 20:02:58 (EDT)

barney -:- M's competition on the web -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 16:06:16 (EDT)

catweasel -:- The Jim thread -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 08:45:36 (EDT)
__Jim -:- Do you want to be here? -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 17:37:33 (EDT)
____Catweasel -:- Do you really want to hurt me -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 21:02:56 (EDT)
______Mary M -:- Oh Oh -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 21:52:27 (EDT)
________Catweasel -:- Oh Oh not more jargon from Jim -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 03:47:46 (EDT)
__________AJW -:- Hello Cat -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 14:34:00 (EDT)
____________Catweasel -:- Greetings AJW -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 06:48:18 (EDT)
______________AJW -:- Questions from Kali Yuga -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 09:03:52 (EDT)
______Jerry -:- Now and then -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 18:42:00 (EDT)
________JHB -:- I was proud -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 19:54:19 (EDT)
__________Catweasel -:- Respect,its personal -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 04:48:38 (EDT)
____________jIM -:- How funny -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:50:12 (EDT)
______________Catweasel -:- How Ironical!!!! -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 06:21:19 (EDT)
________________Mary M -:- How Ironical!!!! -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 08:31:40 (EDT)
________Catweasel -:- Just Now really interests me -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 04:40:50 (EDT)
__________nigel -:- Just Now really interests me -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 05:33:50 (EDT)
____________Catweasel -:- Just Now really interests me -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 06:29:58 (EDT)
______________Nigel -:- Missed the point again... -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 08:47:05 (EDT)
__________Jerry -:- As you request -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 08:30:36 (EDT)
____________Jethro -:- Jerry: About Kabir..... -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 09:10:40 (EDT)
______________Jean-Michel -:- Jethro: yes, PLEASE -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 12:33:39 (EDT)
________________Jethro -:- Re: Literature -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 17:42:45 (EDT)
__Sir Dave -:- The Jim thread -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 19:28:38 (EDT)
____barney -:- two spaces & HTML -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 14:26:13 (EDT)
____Rob -:- The Jim thread -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 18:27:23 (EDT)
______Gerry -:- The Jim thread -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 19:27:12 (EDT)
________Rob -:- The Jim thread -:- Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 00:36:48 (EDT)

Jerry -:- Religion or Science -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 21:09:38 (EDT)
__Robyn -:- Religion or Science -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 22:12:46 (EDT)
____Jerry -:- Religion or Science -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 00:00:34 (EDT)
__nigel -:- Religion or Science -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 04:08:47 (EDT)

William -:- 1st technique -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 20:37:18 (EDT)
__Robyn -:- 1st technique -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 20:48:54 (EDT)
____william -:- 1st technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:05:36 (EDT)
______Robyn -:- 1st technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 08:59:44 (EDT)
________William -:- 1st technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 14:25:08 (EDT)
__Sir Dave -:- 1st technique -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 21:35:23 (EDT)
____William -:- 1st technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:17:25 (EDT)
____Magnificent Martian -:- 1st technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 15:50:42 (EDT)
__Wm -:- the correct technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 00:34:39 (EDT)
____Katie -:- the correct technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 01:42:29 (EDT)
______Wm -:- the correct technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 06:11:25 (EDT)
________William -:- the correct technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:26:23 (EDT)
________Sir Dave -:- Don't try this at home kids -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 08:34:11 (EDT)
__________AJW -:- Don't try this at home kids -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 13:30:21 (EDT)
__________William -:- Don't try this at home kids -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 14:29:52 (EDT)
________Katie -:- Wm and William -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 15:04:34 (EDT)
__________William -:- Wm and William -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 16:18:34 (EDT)
____________Katie -:- Wm and William -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 19:40:50 (EDT)
______________William -:- Wm and William -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 23:00:09 (EDT)
____Robyn -:- the correct technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 05:11:26 (EDT)
____William -:- the correct technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:21:35 (EDT)
____Defandumb -:- the correct technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 09:28:23 (EDT)
______Sir Dave -:- the correct technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 10:43:11 (EDT)
____Katie -:- very funny! -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 14:53:27 (EDT)
______Wm -:- very funny! -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 16:04:05 (EDT)
________Katie -:- I'm gullible, I admit it -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 19:18:15 (EDT)
__________Wm -:- I'm gullible, I admit it -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 21:56:13 (EDT)
____________William -:- I'm gullible, I admit it -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 23:04:44 (EDT)
____________Katie -:- Too funny! LOL (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 08:58:08 (EDT)
__Liz -:- 1st technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 01:40:51 (EDT)
____Rob -:- 1st mistake -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 02:57:43 (EDT)
______x -:- 1st mistake --- / BORING !!! -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 04:08:14 (EDT)
________Bill Cooper -:- 1st mistake -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 06:34:53 (EDT)
________William -:- 1st mistake --- / BORING !!! -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:35:24 (EDT)
______Sir Dave -:- Suckers! -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 04:47:51 (EDT)
________AJW -:- Zounds! -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:14:07 (EDT)
__________Sir Dave -:- Zounds! -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 19:49:35 (EDT)
________William -:- Suckers! -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:37:13 (EDT)
______Wm -:- You talking to me? -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 10:36:58 (EDT)
______Curly -:- 1st mistake -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 18:52:32 (EDT)
____William -:- 1st technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:32:03 (EDT)
__AJW -:- 1st technique -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 06:44:26 (EDT)
__AJW -:- ...but -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 06:46:41 (EDT)

JHB -:- How it could have been -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 19:55:54 (EDT)
__Selene -:- How it could have been -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 21:15:29 (EDT)
____Helen -:- How it could have been -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 00:09:51 (EDT)
__Sir Dave -:- How it could have been -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 19:46:28 (EDT)
__KB -:- How it is -:- Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 22:47:41 (EDT)
____Helen -:- WHACK ME! -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 09:21:25 (EDT)

Jim -:- Admit you're wrong, Sandra -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 18:51:03 (EDT)
__Sandra -:- Admit you're wrong, Sandra -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 23:26:18 (EDT)
____Mary M -:- Admit you're wrong, Sandra -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 23:40:58 (EDT)
____Jim -:- Your sarcasm's misplaced -:- Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 23:57:12 (EDT)
____JF -:- Admit you're wrong, Sandra -:- Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 11:56:21 (EDT)
______Liz -:- Admit you're wrong, Sandra -:- Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 14:29:54 (EDT)


Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 03:00:06 (EDT)
From: toby
Email: toby4u@01019freenet.de
To: Everyone
Subject: help others not get trapped
Message:
So it seems to me that a lot of the former premies are angry
about m denying any responsability of what has happened in the past.

But what do you expect?

Now that we have found out what kind of character he really is,
why wonder that he has no more honor than a 3rd class polititian
and behaves like a coward.

In a certain way, we are responsible too, though maybe innocent and
misleaded, but we did support him and gave him the basis of what he
is continuing now.

I think what happens here is good because a lot of us gave of how
deep one can get, an it helps to understand what was going on.

Thats good for us !

But what about those, he is still adressing , who dont know?.
They will be betrayed in the future, and are right now.

To my opinion , someone who claims to be a subject for millions
is definetely of interest for the public.

What can we do?

It seems that m is the hell afraid of the media ,newspaper,tv etc.

One possibility I see, might be copying some of those reports
that we can find here and on the
website http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Island/6049/Truth

and email it to the newspapers or tv-stations and hope someone gets
interested.

If you have any suggestions of what could be done please dont hesitate
to express them because it might help.

I am an ex-premie from Germany and had joined the club for 14 years
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 06:24:29 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: toby
Subject: Are you saying you would take
Message:
this on yourself?
If so, you may be able to get permission from the webmaster to re-use stuff from the site with the permission of the posters.
You are right. If the forum excerpts are circulated-
some paper some where in the world may take an interest.
Then its the Tabloids I hope.
Do you know if the Inquirer or some of the other rags have web sites that would take some of the posts from here??

There are many different views on this subject on the forum. I am a believer that the easiest way is the best. Just get it out there to everyone till you get a bite.

Getting on Ophrah-- now that would be the ULTIMATE.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 09:23:25 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: toby
Subject: help others not get trapped
Message:
I think a good way to get Maharaji publicised is to tell local press where he is about to do a program, that he is in town. They could be given a picture of Maharaji and some background information before the event was due to be held. They would be interested to know that the education master who now doesn't lead Elan Vital but just gets invited to programs, is the same boy god, lord of the universe from the early seventies.

Here's my bit of stuff which I've put on the web. Maharaji's (unofficial) Homepage which is how Maharaji would write it if he was given a truth serum and The truth about Maharaji which has many posts from this forum on it.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 15:07:42 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: help others not get trapped
Message:
Your website is great, Sir D, good on ya, brother.
How's your health, dear man?
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 19:04:05 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: Helen
Subject: A heart of metal
Message:
All this crap that Maharaji talks about the heart. He doesn't know the first thing. How's my health? A couple of weeks ago I had another piece of metal inserted into a coronary artery to keep me alive. Actually, this new technology works well. A metal spring (stent) is inserted into the coronary artery after angioplasty widens the narrowed artery. The last one I had done (five years ago) is still in good nick and this new stent was actually inserted just in time before I had a really serious problem.

By the way, if anyone here has any questions or worries about their or anyone elses heart then I'm the man to ask because I've spent many weeks in cardiac wards and with cardiac doctors etc and have become a bit of an expert layman, on the subject. I have had a heart attack too which gives me some experience in this field.

I'm glad the web site appeals. I'll add more eventually plus a guestbook where people can pass comment.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 22:36:19 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: A heart of metal
Message:
I knew that you had had a heart attack but I did not realize that you had ongoing heart problems. I also know you have chronic fatigue and chemical sensitivities (is that correct?), lots of health challenges.

I certainly admire your strength. I know your girls give you a lot of inspiration.
I meant to tell you how much I enjoyed your post about your Dad being a king. I was taking a hiatus from posting at that time, but it really touched me.
Take care, dear
Love
Helen
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 23:20:29 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: A heart of metal
Message:
Sir Dave: I am so sorry to hear of your medical problems. You make light of it a bit here, typical of you folks on the other side of the Pond, but it sounds pretty scary. I'll keep you in my thoughts.
I visited the site. It's a good compliment to Jean Michel's and Roger's. The Claudia/Monica stuff is rather salacious. I also noticed that that part of your site had over 700 hits while others had around 250...

Marianne
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 13:19:15 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: toby
Subject: help others not get trapped
Message:
Greetings Toby and welcome to the forum.

What you say makes good sense but I feel that the national media is overloaded with sensational stories about con-men and debating metaphysics has never been national news.

Like many premies who post here, if there is no personal pain, there is no interest.

I don't know what the answer is Toby, maybe we can only help those who have suffered? Maybe we need a newspaper tycoon who is an ex-premie?

regards

Richard
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 18:09:23 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: toby
Subject: help others not get trapped
Message:
Dear Toby
Contrary to Sir Dave, I think the tabloids would take at least a passing interest in 'Boy God Makes Good'
Yes the media is overrun by this kind of stuff
but that might also result in it getting printed.

There are a few premies posting on the forum that
insert posts in order to deflect the focus of a discussion.

they are very obvious about it- so dont let that
deter your inquiry about this.

It is not matter of whether any of us think it is newsworthy, that is for the publications to decide, not paranoid premies.

It does not need to be accusations or infer that he is a shiester. It can simplybe an update for the public as to how far this little indian has gone in gaining wel
personal wealth by the donations of his devotees.
An arial view of the Malibu residence and a photo of the plane should be good for a start.
Oh and a few well chosen corporations listed.
Oh and the gift section of the web site could be mentioned.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 00:34:25 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Funny
Message:
I was just surfing the net trying to find a cheapo flight to Montreal, as I suddenly find myself free of appointments.

Found the cheapest was Royal Aviation at

www.royalair.com

Check out their logo...'The Official Airline of Smiling People'

Is this a premie business I don't know about?
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 00:54:55 (EDT)
From: JF
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Pathetic
Message:
Whats up Rob?!

Are you worried about the numbers for the Montreal program, and encouraging those people who haven't decided yet whether they want to go...to take advantage of the great airfares you found for them.

A last minute gasp to pump up those numbers, huh Rob?

Pathetic.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 01:06:41 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: JF
Subject: Wassup?
Message:
Noooo, it was just what I said it was, something that made me laugh. A little irony. Smiley people...never mind.

And FYI, the Montreal event is full, has been for a while (call ELan Vital at 818-889-0500 (recording) if you don't believe me, so there would be no point me trying to 'pump up the numbers'. I don't require a seat so that didn't stop me.

Also, Royal Air don't have any flights available until the 20th, as their website will tell you (FLL-YUL).

Lighten up, mon ami.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 01:45:25 (EDT)
From: JF
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: you're a slimeball...
Message:
Rob,

I'm really not ton ami, and I'd love to lighten up, really.... but thats kind of difficult in the presence of a shameless liar like yourself.

Rob, how can you deny that you weren't letting your premie friends in on the best fares to Montreal, and NOT for the 20th Rob! You know damn well what the date of the program is, and it isn't the 20th.

Now here is what you said Rob.

I was just surfing the net trying to find a cheapo flight to Montreal, as I suddenly find myself free of appointments.
Found the cheapest was Royal Aviation at

www.royalair.com


AND I checked their website Rob. It only contained general information about the airline. There was no specific flight information available through this site, so can you explain this statement of yours.

Also, Royal Air don't have any flights available until the 20th, as their website will tell you (FLL-YUL).

HOW DO YOU KNOW?

WHERE DOES THEIR WEBSITE TELL YOU THIS?
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 02:37:29 (EDT)
From: JF
Email: None
To: JF
Subject: Thunderstorms for MTL.!!
Message:
More bad news Rob,

I just checked the 'Environment Canada' website, the good folks up here who provide us with our most excellent national weather service.

Ok here's what's happening in Montreal right now as I post.
Temperature is 23 degrees celsius. (Thats right Rob...celsius.
Now we know that you're a wanky-yankee, but this here is Canada!:)

Seriously Rob...getting back to the weather...the pressure right now is 101.6kPa, visibility is 24km(well you know...thats approx. 15 miles),the humidity is at 81% and the humidex factor is 31 degrees celsius(convert it yourself).

The problem Rob is the humidity...the FUCKING HUMIDITY!!
And thats why, something has got to give.
And it will.

The good folks at Environment Canada are calling for showers/thunder showers for the Montreal area for today, Monday June 14.

Not a good day to be travelling to Montreal.

Fuck, Rob.

I hope your plane lands safe.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 03:57:40 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: I.Q of below 80???
To: JF
Subject: Thunderstorms on the ex site
Message:
Keep it up JF ,you're really adding to the tone here!Surely you're not so naive to believe Rob would bother to do as you suggested?Are you THAT paranoid????
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 07:03:28 (EDT)
From: JF
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: And lightning up your ass!
Message:
Keep it up JF ,you're really adding to the tone here!Surely you're not so naive to believe Rob would bother to do as you suggested?

Not only do I believe it...I KNOW it.

Are you THAT paranoid????

Nope.
And thats why I haven't the need to hide my real identity by posting under a ridiculous pseudonym like you do.
Now when you can do that...I'll know that YOU'RE not paranoid.

Regards,

Joe Faywlowicz
Montreal, Canada.
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:03:51 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: JF
Subject: Thunderstorms for MTL.!!
Message:
Joeseh,

Thank you for your concern, however, I didn't go up there in the end.

I stayed home and cried all day because you said you're not my friend.

Rob
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:01:15 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: JF
Subject: I'm a slimeball ????
Message:
Joseph,

Talk about over-reacting. I can't believe you're serious, however, in case you are, let me clarify things a little.

I am guilty of not providing every detail of the airline thing, for that I apologise, it was an oversight. I found the Royal Aviation site when I was searching on MSN Expedia for flights to Montreal. Yes, you are right, the Royal website does not contain flight reservation info (pretty stupid for an airline, however..)I got that from Expedia. The fare basis for their cheapo flights was a 7 day APEX, hence them not being available until 20th.

The only reason I mentioned the thing at all was because of, as you will have seen, that daft picture of smiling people (ie premies)and the ToolBox pop-up with the legend about ..smiling people. I foolishly thought some of you might see the humour in it, obviously I was wrong.

I'm not a premie travel agent, if I were I would be a very sorry one to leave it so late, when, as I said, the event was booked out. Did you also check that info out on the EV info line?
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 06:41:18 (EDT)
From: JF
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: More bullshit Rob?!
Message:
And FYI, the Montreal event is full, has been for a while (call ELan Vital at 818-889-0500 (recording) if you don't believe me, so there would be no point me trying to 'pump up the numbers'.


Nothing like an artificially created overflow crowd to give the peons the impression that their cult is still happening.

Man, are you a slimester or what!
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:18:00 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: JF
Subject: More bullshit Rob?!
Message:
Joeseph,

You're milking this for all it's worth, aren't you?

Nothing like an artificially created overflow crowd to give the peons the impression that their cult is still happening.

Funny you should bring this up. Certain PWK's (Professors With Knowledge) have, for some time now, been working on human cloning as a more efficient, cost-efficient method of propogation.

Just look at the advantages:

No need for brainwashing - all brains will be pre-programed and unerasable; the famous Fixed Smile will come as standard, requiring no effort and no strained facial muscles; an extra pair of hands will be included - these will protrude from the temples, thus allowing all four techniques to be practised at once; and the best of all - they will all know without a doubt, who they're Creator is!

But don't tell anyone, it's supposed to be a secret.

Rob
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 05:06:23 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: You didn't reply
Message:
to my post earlier regarding whether M's claim never to have been a leader can be defended.

Any reason for this?

John.
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:19:18 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: You didn't reply
Message:
JHB

You are absolutely right, just got too busy, check back in 10 minutes. Sorry.

Rob
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 18:10:43 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Now I have.
Message:
John,

Just been getting a bit of background on this 'leader' thing. Seems like Sandra's pretty much licked the 'explanation' bowl clean, and still drawn a blank with everyone.

In looking at all the angles, I would have to concede that many people would see Maharaji as a 'leader' under several definitions of the term.

Now obviously our friends Jim and Marianne would like to see it proven that M. is the leader of EV in a legal sense, as it would add considerable growth hormone to any embryonic legal action which may or may not be allegedly brewing. I'm not going anywhere near that, thank you very much.

For me, when I read his quote on the m.org site, my first reaction was that I hadn't really ever seen him as a leader, as per my image of the term. But that doesn't mean that someone else may have always looked at him as one, sure.

I think basically he doesn't like the term because of his own impression of what a leader is and would prefer people didn't look at him as one in that sense. It's like me saying 'I'm not British, I'm Scottish' (cf Sir Dave & I) when in fact I am, but only by deafult, and I would rather I weren't seen as such.

What's really happening, of course, is that one side is scrutinising every word he's ever uttered since he was born almost, in an effort to discredit him in any way possible, while the other side is vigorously repudiating same.

Fair game, I suppose, given the purpose of the Forum.
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 18:33:10 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Liar!!
Message:
For me, when I read his quote on the m.org site, my first reaction was that I hadn't really ever seen him as a leader, as per my image of the term.

Don't you care about having even a vestige of credibility here? This kind of crap is insufferable, Rob. Your game's no different than a holocaust denier's. Bet you never expected to end up like this, did you?

What's really happening, of course, is that one side is scrutinising every word he's ever uttered since he was born almost, in an effort to discredit him in any way possible, while the other side is vigorously repudiating same.

Wow, that's observant! You outta write a book or something, 'The Real Story of the Ex-Premie Site'. The question here, Rob, is whether the 'vigorous repudiation' is honest and fair. The answer is 'no'.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 05:30:14 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Another non-reply
Message:
Rob,

You also didn't reply to mine and JW's posts below challenging your defense of M's God statements on the grounds of his age.

John.
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:26:40 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Another non-reply
Message:
John, cc JW

Remember that started as an hypothosis of Jim's. ie If Maharaji isn't God, then why... etc etc. Because of this, I was offering what I saw as possible explanations.

The age thing was just one idea that came to mind, I didn't state it as being the gospel truth, how could I?

If the antithesis is true, then all arguments against my proposition are irrelevant anyway, so until the facts are established how can either of us develop a meaningful argument?

Rob
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 07:48:04 (EDT)
From: JF
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: and still more bullshit!
Message:
I was just surfing the net trying to find a cheapo flight to Montreal, as I suddenly find myself free of appointments.

Bull fucking shit Rob!

I have proof you were emailing participants on this forum as much as 10 days ago to make arrangements to meet up with them in Montreal and help them get into the program.

This ISN'T SUDDENLY Rob!

You're a fuckbrain liar, and I swear I'm going to shove this up your ass!!
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:35:44 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: JF
Subject: and still more bullshit!
Message:
Joeseph,

How easy it is to be bold on the other end of a telephone wire!

You are referring to conversations I was having with Gail, about meeting up with her at the Montreal event, yes? Well at that point in time I had nothing scheduled in my diary for that weekend and was expecting to go. Then one of my clients called, who was worried about some threatening calls he had received, so we scheduled a meeting to suit him, on Monday 14th.

You with me so far?

OK, so all that happened was he telephoned me late Friday to cancel that appointment, leaving me free to go to Montreal, but with no flight booked. The rest you know.

See how easy it is to make someone out to be a liar? All you need is an absence of the facts and a propensity to hurl abuse. You owe me an apology, I think.
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 18:43:02 (EDT)
From: JF
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: And there's no end to it!
Message:
Rob,

Not too many people here are going to believe your baloney about a last minute appointment cancellation enabling you to attend the program in Montreal.

If that appointment wouldn't have been cancelled, you would have rescheduled it.

As your master's foremost bullshit revisionist spokesman on this forum and/or just as a simple premie with means( I mean you've already boasted here how you have plenty of time and money and you do with it as you wish..so its not like you couldn't afford to get to Montreal)it was of utmost importance for you to be there.

You're just trying to reverse the image of the fanatical premie, travelling wherever, whenever just to be with their gooey miragey.

Your slick Rob, but totally non believable.

And the depth of your cheat and deceipt lies in your approaching those exes participating in this forum whom you deem as plausible candidates to be drawn back into the cult...away from the pages of this forum, behind the scenes, via personal email.

As you yourself explain in these confidential emails, you do this to avoid the scrutiny of your pitches by others participating in this forum, who by your own admission are quite 'intelligent and persuasive'.

Yup.

I guess intelligence and persuasiveness can be quite intimidating,especially when you have nothing but sizzle to offer in return.

Like your brother Nil...if you owned a tavern , you'd be serving all foam and no beer.
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 23:14:08 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: JF cc Gail
Subject: ...from either side.
Message:
Joseph,

You really have had a sense-of-humour failure, haven't you?

I see you have joined forces with Mr Heller and Greg in a verbal onslaught to rival the NATO campaign against Serbia. How interesting. I had no idea I was making that much of an impression on you, thank you.

Not too many people here are going to believe your baloney about a last minute appointment cancellation enabling you to attend the program in Montreal.

If that appointment wouldn't have been cancelled, you would have rescheduled it.


Now we see you leaping blindly into the dynamics of my profession, without even knowing what that is, and assuming that I can rearrange my clients' schedules on a whim. I have missed quite a few programs in my home town because of work commitments, usually because I am out of town.

You are quite transparantly trying to incriminate 'the accused' (ie Maharaji') by discrediting 'the witness' (ie myself). Did you learn that from Jim?

How? Simple; by leaping onto what was a very innocuous and simple piece of geniality on my part (the start of this thread) and concocting this ludicrous double-entendre, and then pursuing avenues in which you have no justification for challenging my honesty, and certainly no evidence to the contrary.

But, as I've said before, that's the name of the game, so let's continue with the charade.

As your master's foremost bullshit revisionist spokesman on this forum and/or just as a simple premie with means( I mean you've already boasted here how you have plenty of time and money and you do with it as you wish..so its not like you couldn't afford to get to Montreal)it was of utmost importance for you to be there

A glorious compliment, Joe, but actually undeserved. 'Revisionist' definately seems to be the Word of the Week. Last week it was 'brainwashing'. What's next, I wonder. Here you are evidently questioning the fact that I didn't go to Montreal because I was unable to secure an APEX fare...you see, he is a '**?xxx##ing liar!!!'. I didn't become a premie with means by frittering away $800+ on trips to one hour programs, when I can get the same flight for $175. Something to do with my tartan blood? Use your common sense, man.

You're just trying to reverse the image of the fanatical premie, travelling wherever, whenever just to be with their gooey miragey.

I'm sure they do exist, but I'm not of their ilk. Why would I care what your image of premies is, anyway?

And the depth of your cheat and deceipt lies in your approaching those exes participating in this forum whom you deem as plausible candidates to be drawn back into the cult...away from the pages of this forum, behind the scenes, via personal email...As you yourself explain in these confidential emails, you do this to avoid the scrutiny of your pitches by others participating in this forum, who by your own admission are quite 'intelligent and persuasive'.

Again, a reference to my conversations with Gail. Do I take it from this post that she forwarded them to you? That's obviously her prerogative, and I have no objection to them being published on the Forum, either, although I think that decision should be Barnie's also. The reason I emailed her instead of posting a reply, was out of courtesy to the Forum, and particularly to Barnie, who has established guidelines for everyone here.

Gail was asking me, among other things, how she might get into the event in Montreal, and I did not want my suggestions to encourage anyone to go who had not already decided to.

You are being extremely repressive if you think any 'ex' who privately expresses uncertainty about their decision to stop practising, should not seek to discuss it with whomever they choose outside of the Forum. She was quite at liberty to tell me to 'fuck off' in an email also, but she didn't. What the hell business is it of yours what I do outside this Forum, anyway?

I guess intelligence and persuasiveness can be quite intimidating, especially when you have nothing but sizzle to offer in return.

Well, talk about projecting onto people your own characteristics.
Here we have, finally, the real reason for all the hate and abuse directed at me lately.

You know, I remember reading many years ago a book by Lyall Watson. It was called Supernature, I believe. In it he described how tests had been done on the saliva of extremely angry, hateful people when they were in their worst rage. It contained enough toxins to kill a dog.

Don't make yourself ill, Joe, over this horseshit, it's not worth it.
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 00:46:51 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: I agree, Rob
Message:
Rob,

I agree that Joseph (cath the spelling) is reaching a little far assuming you're lying about this travel thing. I mean, I felt I had to say that just because I get so pissed at premies who won't speak up when other premies here shoot a little off-the-mark. I think Joseph's right about a lot of stuff but I'm not with him on this. He might be right, of course, but it would still be a guess. A lucky guess, I guess.

I don't think I have to go into all the ways I think that you, personally, have brought this mistrust upon yourself. You know that already. It's kind of like 'it serves you right' but, in fact, I don't think his speculation's worth any more than that.

Whatever. The guy's got his reasons for not trusting you people. Have you ever honestly considered those? No, Rob, I mean honestly.
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 01:32:46 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: thanks
Message:
Jim, I do understand how I must come across, from yours and other people's perspective, but there's not a whole lot I can do about it.

We disagree at such a fundamental level, it really is hard to find common ground. All I can say is am doing my best to be open and honest about things which are hard to understand (for me) and even harder to talk about, being as they are largely based on very personal feelings and intangible parameters. (That last is probably an oxymoron, but it's the best I can do at this hour).

You will always win when it comes to pure intellectual arguments: pulling quotes out from God-knows-where, picking them apart, drawing conclusions from apparant contradictions.

That's why you have such a field day with Sandra, me, Nil...any premie, in fact. Knowledge just won't stand up to that kind of scrutiny. Never will, probably. But it was never meant to. It doesn't belong in the realm of intellectual discussion, it belongs in the realm of the heart. So, too, does the motivation of premies and Maharaji alike.

But we're all so busy trying to win Pulitzer prizes, we never get the chance to explore that side of it. Pity.

BTW, did you see what I was referring to at the top of the thread? I thought it was hilarious, surprised no 'ex's' found it first.

Rob
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 00:29:36 (EDT)
From: Just say, you've got mail
Email: no
To: Everyone
Subject: Email, or in-Site message box.
Message:
The real point is that, deciding as he did to breakdown the various emails he'd received to date, he was intentionally misleading readers by omitting any mention of the critical.

What the fuxk's wrong with you? This point is so obvious. Maharaji's trying to trick people, dude.

____________________________________________________________

And it is not even a real email, like, 'maharaji@maharaji.com', which he owns and may use that way, but, it is a PRIVATE message board, that you give the, ?Letter/?---/???/???, one of 4 types of PRIVATE, MESSAGE, NOT PUBLIC EMAIL, as to allow for the Cult Leader to do with as he pleases...... not even God or anything on that side of the fence would be afraid to talk openly for the enlightenment of all, but, on the other side of the fence, well, that IS another story and that IS what IS going on with M and his Site.
M is in 100% control of what is in his Cult, this way ----- Reality is what he says it is or you can F off, but, he is flawed, he bleeds, he makes mistakes, so that is the sign of a Perfect Master, {NOT}, 'No/pass/for-get-it', --- he is not 100%, so why would any one give them selves over to ……---. Do I need to go on?

I hope you get it.

1st Official LAW of GOD, Do not eat from the tree of Knowledge, I do not want you to have the ability to think and question my, Master control over you and your world, because, I am the Creator and you our just my creatures/slaves/pets.

{Remember Guru Maharaj Ji calling people, premies, “”His”“creatures””.}

I know their are reasons why people want to have a Lord/Perfect Master/Guru Maharaj Ji/God in human form, but, nothing means nothing unless we the person have an opportunity in an open forum to communicate with our, Lord/Perfect Master/Guru Maharaj Ji/God in human form, and truly understand our self, and our relationship in this relationship, or we are merely slaves of our Lord/Perfect Master/Guru Maharaj Ji/God in human form, and live a, 'sort of life', in a world not fully understanding or being allowed to, that is if we choose to stay in such a, 'CULT', and or club, and or marriage, ha ha ha.

Is it, Wrong/MIND/unholy, to question the appropriateness of what Guru Maharaj Ji/ M, has to say or what he does? If you do not, “think”, you may, “seem to be happy/accepting”, but, are you truly, You? You may just be someone’s creature/slave, to be allowed to partake in their 4 techniques of meditation and given enough, rope/latitude, to live a life as they so feel to allow.

I don’t believe in the Bible, but, I did enjoy the story where, “Doubting Thomas”, reached his hand, into/onto, the body of Jesus, because he doubted what was there in front of him, a real body of Jesus as the story goes, well, the neat part was that Jesus said something to the effect that it was the doubting of Thomas that was making Thomas the MOST honest and sincere of all the devotes.

You get the idea. --- Never leave room for Doubt in your Mind, takes on maybe and different meaning.

Do not be obstinate for obstinate sake, but always question authority, or you do not have any. --------------------------- {“Authority'}/SELF
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 22:21:49 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Sandra & JB
Subject: Sandra & JB - Replies?
Message:
Hi Sandra & JB,

I've taken the liberty of combining two posts in which I am specifically asking you both questions concerning events of 20 years ago and Maharaji's age.

It's long.. but hey give it a shot.

Mary

Hi Sandra,

Pretty bloody clear. What guidance were you giving at 13? Other than to 'Little Jim?'

I've noticed this age issue coming up quite frequently concerning Maharaji.

I'm wondering:

1. How old was he when he met Marolyn? (OK, I can see why you wouldn't want to answer this question.)
2. How old was he when he married Marolyn?
3. How old was he when PremLata was born?

Could you possibly give us a suitable age people with K would mark as the commencement of Maharaji's accountability for his words and actions.

In the mean time I will assume that Marolyn was appointed his guardian as well as his wife at their wedding.

Sincerely,
Mary

Response to JB's post as to whether or not I've been around M and the deal with Nellie's watch.

Hi JB,

I think the last time I saw him was at Holi in '82. There were two times over the years I was within 2 feet of him alone. I'm tall, he's so vertically challenged that I felt sorry for him and walked away.

The Corporate Record thing was in response to all the innuendos aimed at ex-es as many premies were calling them flagrant liars concerning the Church/Foundation of Elan Vitals business history. So, I look up the facts JB, do a little ERD and the pieces of some puzzles fall together. Joan Apter and Michael Dettmers both count 'all those years' quite creatively on their vitaes. I take it that the policy is PWKs can exploit the past for their material gain, ex-es must never mention the past in their quest for closure and healing. Quite a double standard. Go look at their resumes on the Web. When you're through, I recommend you e-mail them respectively regarding your concern for them mentioning things that happened 20 to 25 years ago!

Now, Nellie's watch was a symbol of the matriarchal bond from generation to generation in our family (it was quite an expensive watch too.) I think it's a natural inclination to try and figure out how one could have been so somnambulant not to have realized what was going on.

JB, you are the first premie to comment on Nellie's watch and I thank you for that.

You and I both know that there are premies and lurkers who know exactly where that watch and other premies valuables were taken after being collected in the 5 gallon pre-darshan buckets in London. If I have a psychological need to know then that's between my therapist and I as to why. In the mean time, I've been encouraged to keep asking. So if you do know, now is the time to step up and be a gentleman/gentlelady.

Finally, I've noticed that some premie posters pull the 'that happened 20 to 25 years ago' trip suggestive perhaps that none of the experiences of that era counts. Let's go a step further than Apter/Dettmer EV la-dee-da-bs-vitaes and acknowledge that life is a continuum. If premies feel so strongly that ex-es need to diss the past then let's just negate the births of Premlata, Hansi, Daya, and Amar. Poof - they don't count. But you know full well they do count. Maharaji is able to give his children a corporation in their names. I would like to have given my daughter Nellie's watch a few weeks ago.

But hey, the shiester never got Nellie's 1922 Vintage Singer Sewing machine;-)

Glad you like my humor lad/lass;-)

Luv,
Mary M
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 22:36:50 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: PS TO JB
Message:
Hey JB,

Back to the corporate venue. If you've been following the threads you may recall everyone dissin NIM about Amtext & Chuckie Cheese. I don't hear any dissin these days concerning Amtext. Wonder why? Why did Donald D pull his name off the Officer's List?

And, I think Chuckie continues the Pastor/Private Investor/Rawat tradition of conning the masses via the other coporation he's the straw man for. Jeez, 25 cents a minute. Is there any area the tenacles of fleecing the needy are not covered by the EV Church/Foundation?

What the hell, at least they get something in return for the exhorbitant rate. Right?

Mary
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 06:40:00 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: Ohmygosh---toooo ripe! FLINT!!
Message:
Mary M
{{{{{Guardian??
Of course.
Would that be a matter of public record?
Is it time to Email some scandalous allegeds
to Truth Magazine with a few Krishna shots and a arial
photo of the Malibu Mansion yet??????!!!!!

Some of you legal minds bring me to my senses.
Is there a backlash on some individual if something like that happens?
If so , what would aforementioned backlash/consequence be?

And I am NOT asking if y'all think that a tabloind would Print it. The question is what are the consequences.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 08:37:51 (EDT)
From: Mary
Email: None
To: cp
Subject: Ohmygosh---toooo ripe! FLINT!!
Message:
Hi cp,

It certainly is tooo funny when one really thinks about it. We probably need a 'hillbilly marriage' specialist to probe the topic of M's marriage & guardianship.

Maybe she was simply his 'sponsor'. I think she would have been for his green card and US of A citizenship.

Who knows? It's not a pretty corner for Durga. Either she thought he was the 'Ageless God Incarnate', which he now denies, or, she had a thing for young lads.

Luv,
Mare
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 15:39:52 (EDT)
From: Sandra
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: Sandra & JB - Replies?
Message:
Hi Mary,

Only have a moment here but I don't mind wading in. He was 16 when they got married (take note of that Jim and anyone who was confused re: was Maharaji living the ashram lifestyle) and I believe he was 18 when Premlata was born, I don't remember exactly. If your point is how young he was, I'd say that's pretty obvious.

By the way, I wasn't trying to make excuses for Maharaji regarding his age. He was certainly the most extraordinary child I've ever met, by a million miles. I enjoyed reading his Q & A at 13, I just think it's pretty silly to try and freeze quotes about any subject from any time and try to apply them to any situation at any other time in history. It really makes Jim and others seem like bizarre bible-thumpers in reverse. It's playing 'Gotcha!' with fleeting moments from the now-distant past, which seems to me like an amazingly useless pursuit. Where is anyone now? Doesn't that seem a bit more important?

I'll leave your other cracks alone. Hmmm, what an odd sentence!

Best to you, Sandra
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 16:50:29 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: Ole' 22 skiddoo Sandra ? (nt)
Message:
dfgsg
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 20:12:42 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: You're wrong about Premlata
Message:
Sandra,

M was pretty quick off the mark after marriage. M was married in May or June 1974. Premlata was born in March 1975. Not quite a shotgun wedding but not far off.

John.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 22:40:26 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: A simple test, Sandra
Message:
Sandra,

It's hard for me to keep my patience with you but you know that. Really, why even mention it? Anyway, your whole performance here is a joke, isn't it? There is no wany in the world that someone could sincerely think what you profess to. You're clearly just trying to get a rise out of us but... you know what: you prove our points in spades.

For one thing, you underscore your cult leader's absolute aversion to simple accountability. You write stuff like this:

I enjoyed reading his Q & A at 13, I just think it's pretty silly to try and freeze quotes about any subject from any time and try to apply them to any situation at any other time in history. It really makes Jim and others seem like bizarre bible-thumpers in reverse. It's playing 'Gotcha!' with fleeting moments from the now-distant past, which seems to me like an amazingly useless pursuit. Where is anyone now? Doesn't that seem a bit more important?

completely ignoring the way we hung on his every word. Even now, the cult's like that. Maharaji says 'happy new breath!' and you guys are off to the races. That you ignore this turns the picture upside down. Powerman is right about you.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 22:41:56 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Sorry, I forgot the test
Message:
Hey, I got distracted. The test is whether you can find a single, informed person outside the cult who'd ever agree with you.
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 03:55:49 (EDT)
From: I am going to DIE.
Email: Please -------------------------------------------
To: ALL
Subject: A simple test
Message:
Is there a here after?
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 05:30:07 (EDT)
From: been beyond
Email: None
To: I am going to DIE.
Subject: A simple test
Message:
yes
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 23:26:35 (EDT)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: Q&A at 13
Message:
Hi Sandra,

I agree with you that his Q&A at 13 was interesting, I fell for it myself. In fact, it is a helluvalot more compelling than the stuff he thought up himself years later. It gets less and less as the years go by. Don't you think?

Sincerely,
Victoria
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 23:28:37 (EDT)
From: Mary
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: Stitch his lips shut then!
Message:
Sandra Dear,

Are you sure you're not a pharmceutical representive for let's see... I think Rophynal might produce the selective amnesia your Teacher/Guru/Friend/Master craves amongst his minions?

I just think it's pretty silly to try and freeze quotes about any subject from any time and try to apply them to any situation at any other time in history.

Nah... you're sutures...must be a suture rep. I've heard cat gut is a pretty good material. Please allow me to suggest that the next time you see Mr Rawat suture his lips neatly and tightly with cat gut. This will prevent him from getting carried away into his unique and loquacious plagiarizing of RESPECTED LEADERS from any other time in history.

Where did the jewelry, money and other valuables go collected in plastic buckets over the years? This is such a simple question. Why are ALL premies afraid to answer this?

You crack me up girl;-)

Mary
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 15:49:18 (EDT)
From: Dr. Roger Drek
Email: None
To: Mary
Subject: stainless steel staples
Message:
Modern medicine has moved beyond cat gut for sutures. Many applications are using staples. I think that this would be perfect for Maharaji's mouth.
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 16:42:52 (EDT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: JB - Replies?
Message:
Hi Mary,

I hadn't looked in for a while 'til last night and probably won't won't be checking in here too much more in the future but I'll try your Qs. This place has just degenerated into too much name-calling to be even readable.

The only times you were close to Maharaji you felt sorry for him? Did you ever look in the eyes of the gent you so easily mock? Or were you too concerned about his height?

Now on to ResuméGate. Of course there's no 'policy' on resumés. Do you actually think there's some sort of headquarters issuing directives on what people are supposed to say or do? That's nonsense. I read Joan Apter's resumé on the web as you suggested. Other than refraining from announcing 'I fell in love with a Guru and still am!,' it seems quite all-inclusive to me. She even mentions Elan Vital, along with Coca-Cola, A,T&T, Pacific Bell and the Ojai Foundation. It's a resumé, Mary. You put on the items that are more likely to get you hired, not things that you know might be controversial to some people. She's used her very real experience in 'organizational development, training, and keynote speaking' to further her career. Wherein lies the harm? You're barking up no tree at all there. And who said 'exes' shouldn't talk about the past? Anyone can talk about whatever they like, preferably without insulting or abusing other people, who may share a very similar past externally but have had a completely different experience internally.

I know your Grandma's watch means a lot to you. I wish I could help you with that but I have no idea what happened to a watch put in a bucket in England what, a quarter of a century ago? I never saw the buckets you speak of...when I went through darshan there was a table, usually with a long-skirted, ashram-sister type who took whatever card or gift you were bringing. I don't think there was any 'Central Ministry of Buckets' (sounds like Terry Gilliam's Brazil), though in England, you never know!

Hang onto that sewing machine for dear life, girl!

Hope all goes well for you, JB
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 17:43:27 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: JB - Replies?
Message:
The only times you were close to Maharaji you felt sorry for him? Did you ever look in the eyes of the gent you so easily mock? Or were you too concerned about his height?

Hi JB,

Actually, I did look directly into his eyes once in Miami. He was going around the room doing a knowledge review. He came and stood in front of me and spoke to me. No zing there JB.

I'll be the first to admit that I was quite a willing doormat when it came to receiving K. At that time in my life I had just gone through the suicide of a my college roommate, sudden death of my father, and the death of a very close mother figure. I've worked through those issues. I've also come to the conclusion that I went along with the then promoted 'Belief System of M being God' as this was psychologically comfortable for me. It's bizarre but when I look back I realize that he could have dropped dead dancing away right in front of me and I'd have cared less. Cruel and brutal but true. I preferred not to have my heart devastated again for a while. Maharaji offered the most 'comfortably numb' experience of the era at least for me. Yes, I accept accountability for my poor choices. Do you think M will ever, ever apologize to those he's devastated or conned or deceived?

Now on to ResuméGate. Of course there's no 'policy' on resumés. Do you actually think there's some sort of headquarters issuing directives on what people are supposed to say or do? That's nonsense. I read Joan Apter's resumé on the web as you suggested. Other than refraining from announcing 'I fell in love with a Guru and still am!,' it seems quite all-inclusive to me. She even mentions Elan Vital, along with Coca-Cola, A,T&T, Pacific Bell and the Ojai Foundation. It's a resumé, Mary.

Yes JB, it's simply a resume of Joans. I don't think there's any place issuing directives on resumes. There are enough resume writers to fluff up anyone's vitae. The point I was trying to get across is: this was the first I had found out that ELAN VITAL WAS AN EDUCATIONAL FOUNDATION. Up until this discovery I went by corporate and military records. Joan A was in a position of leadership, or perceived to be in a position of leadership, within EV. She never once to my recollection referred to EV/DLM as anything but an organization to promote M & K. You aptly danced around the '25 year issue'.

Again, I will ask you. Is it PWK's understanding that individuals in perceived positions of authority in EV can go back 25 years and lie about EV/DLM and what it represented? Meanwhile, if an ex brings up any incident concerning EV/DLM then they get the 'quarter century ago' sluff off from PWKs. I find this abhorrent, particularly when the ex is telling the truth and the premie is promoting themselves on a foundation built upon carefully crafted image statements of deceit.

Good Luck JB.

M
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 21:16:14 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: Censorshp
To: Everyone
Subject: Field size
Message:
Oh great and ever powerful Webmaster'Why have you restricted me to a field size of 500 units' .When Jim or Powerman demand REAL answers,you've left me hamstrung!No space ,and editing required just to post?Or is Jim right?No alternative views reguired!Herr Goering lives!If your material is accurate and you are simply telling the truth,why do you need to censor and restrict?
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 21:49:38 (EDT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Field size
Message:
Please see Sir Dave's instructions below about how to type. It would make reading your ad hominem rants easier.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 21:52:49 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: You're lucky at that
Message:
Cat,

Look, asshole, you're lucky you get to post anything at all here. What is it you have to say anyway? Nothing as far as I can tell. Really, you never say anything. So why should you care if in fact Barney's limited your field size?

Really, tell me, what are the topics you'd like to discuss here (beside me, that is). Do you want to talk about Maharaji? What do you want to say about him?
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 03:35:27 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: Mr Agro?????
To: Jim
Subject: You're lucky at that
Message:
Jim,your so sweet.You dont discuss M.You dont discuss K.You simply vent on anyone who has the temerity to disagree with you.
Joe Walsh said it in the 70's ;'You cant argue with a sick mind'.
But Jim,Jim ,Your not the only one here......or are you?Your discussions are like lessons in ancient history.By the time you work out how quickly life changes,You'll be just another puff of smoke dissippating over Orange county.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 05:13:10 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: You're wrong and scared.
Message:
Cat,

You're wrong. Jim will discuss any aspect of M and K, as many others here will. It's you that appears to be afraid to enter into a serious debate about M.

John.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 05:32:33 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: No semantics!!!!
To: JHB
Subject: You're Lost and scarred.
Message:
Thats not true.You should check through previous posts to other people .I will not, however suffer fools ,and Jim and quite a few others here fit that category.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 09:29:29 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: OK - Lets Debate
Message:
Cat,

Firstly, I'm not lost - I've always had a good sense of direction. It's only when I foolishly believe other people's directions that I temporarily go astray.

Secondly, I believe I have read most of what you have posted, but I must have missed the coherent debates. Perhaps you could show me that you can have an intelligent debate by responding to my thread below entitled 'For Rob - Lets Debate'. Rob, for some reason, hasn't responded.

John.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 15:32:27 (EDT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Katwheezle
Subject: You're Lost and scarred.
Message:
KW: 'I will not, however suffer fools....' Well, I guess barney's got ya beat! He DOES suffer the fools, and that's the reason you are allowed to post at all!
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 04:15:49 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: No go,No show
To: Mike
Subject: You're Lost and scarred.
Message:
Barney has blocked me on more than one occasion.It is impossible to answer you under such circumstances.Over to you Herr Webmaster!
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 03:48:47 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Catweasel
Subject: Field size
Message:
If your material is accurate and you are simply telling the truth,why do you need to censor and restrict?

D'ya know, Cat, me ol' rocket scientist, that is exactly the question we put to the editors of enjoyinglife.org, both before and after demonstrating beyond the shadow of doubt that everything on their site is sanitised, bowdlerised bullshit, and that not even premies are allowed to tell the whole story - or even the basic facts about Maharaji's background, his claims to omnipotenence, omniscience and omnipresence, his promises to bring peace to the world, his Krishna crown, his semi-naked wobble-dancing or his personal wealth. You'd think if they had any pride in their Master they would have nothing whatsoever to hide, and would instead glory in all his doings, past and present...

At least you, Cat, have permission to communicate here. It's a shame you are not quite up to it.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 04:13:11 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: Reactionary Bullshit?
To: nigel
Subject: Field size
Message:
This is not the 'Enjoying Life' site.I have a sneaking suspicion its the 'Not Enjoying Life'site.So whats the connection?I am an individual,and I'm on THIS site.Since when have the rules changed for this site.Has 'Barney' been given total discretion ,or were you only feigning democracy.Cant have it both ways Nige.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 07:24:05 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Catweasel
Subject: Not a democracy issue.
Message:
Barney runs the site and can do what he likes. You could set up your own web page and do what you like. Enjoyinglife.org is an official page set up with the hamster's blessing, which cannot, alas, do what it likes. (Like they say 'they don't want to have to edit' the contributions - they just have to, from time to time...) That's their prerogative, but I reckon it's important that the premies and would-be aspirants know about it. Especially, since contributor's words aren't merely censored, but are changed to comply with the party line.

People are rarely banned from forum III, and when they are it isn't for being pro-maharaji - it's for being disruptive. This is, in fact, the only place on the Internet where pro- and anti- sentiments are given space. In that sense it most resembles a political democracy, but besides that, any comparison between a web-board and a political constitution is absurd.

Would you consider it a democracy issue if you threw a party and had to ask someone to leave when it became apparent that they were only there to annoy, threaten or abuse your other guests?

Anyway, we all like you here, Catweasel. Your abuse and evasiveness speaks bloody volumes.

(Yes, I'm enjoying life very much, ta, and reading your always entertaining posts adds some froth to my little cup of happiness.)
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 06:53:24 (EDT)
From: Mr Magoo
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: 'ROAD HOG!' nt
Message:
.nt
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 08:43:34 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: katabria@apk.net
To: Catweasel
Subject: Field-size envy
Message:
When Jim or Powerman demand REAL answers, you've left me hamstrung!

People have been calling for REAL answers from you for a long time. After you failed to deliver any, (and continued to pepper the forum with finely-honed jabs at Jim), they began calling for your being blocked. You are lucky that you even CAN post anywhere, since your inability to address issues leaves you hamstrung.

Herr Goering Lives!

Goering ran Hitler's airforce (that means, 'airplanes'). Nice try, though...

If your material is accurate and you are simply telling the truth, why do you need to censor and restrict?

If you have something worthwhile (and pertinent) to say, say it. Or piss away your few posts here by whining.

If your beliefs about Maharaji are accurate and you are simply telling the truth, why do you need to waffle and evade?
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 04:31:19 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: Hypocrites
To: Brian
Subject: Field-size envy
Message:
What gives you the right to control the direction of any debate here?There are a number of people posting here who believe they are entitled to FORCE discussion on issues of their choice.You cant.Logic does interest me,as does common sense and fairplay.Brian Goebbels or Barney Goering,whats it matter ,your only interest here is propaganda.And a big Hi! to Jim Himmler.
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 11:29:48 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Ha ha ha!!!!!!!!
Message:
What gives you the right to control the direction of any debate here?There are a number of people posting here who believe they are entitled to FORCE discussion on issues of their choice.You cant.Logic does interest me,as does common sense and fairplay

You liar!

It gives me great pleasure to see you get squeezed like this. anyone questioning the fairness of your treatment need only read your posts in the archive.

Serves you right, Cat.

Asshole.
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 06:06:29 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: Ugly,very ugly!
To: Jim
Subject: Ho,Ho,Ho????
Message:
What do you mean James ,patron saint of kindness and understanding.Here ,heres a shovel, dig a bigger hole for yourself.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 13:50:17 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Depth of field
Message:
You don't need to write long messages to get a point across. In actual fact, a point is better made by clear, simple and concise statements in an overall text of one or two paragraphs. Anything longer can become a bore to read.

By the way, are you taking note of my punctuation advice? The above plus clear punctuation makes for easier reading.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 14:11:08 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Field size
Message:
Hi,

Equal units for all.

If, before reaching the required quota of 500 units, you tire of Cat's diatribe, simply go back to the index and read something else.

What's the problem here?

Or, as it's summer here in the northern hemisphere, is it open season on premies?

Anth the Conscientious Objector.
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 04:37:24 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: you're on probation
Message:
Well, you noticed that I put some limits on you, did you?

Ok, I detected some sincerity and some relief that you have not been around as much as you used to. Therefore, I've bumped up your response size from 500 to 800. I'm also upping your number of posts per day from 3 to 5.

We'll monitor the situation and see how you handle this added responsibility and maybe in the future we can evaluate the situation and cut you some more slack.

So, Catweasel, if you respond to this that leaves you with four (4) remaining responses for the current day. Rather than waste one of your posts on me why don't you answer some questions and have a real discussion. Choose your words carefully and by using correct puncuation you will save bytes that count towards your limit.

Go, Catweasel, go!
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 12:10:46 (EDT)
From: Elfie
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: you're on probation
Message:
Good idea Barney! Limiting the Cat.

Let me know if you need any help.

Elfie
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:41:51 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Elfie
Subject: It's automagic
Message:
Thanks, but it's automagic unless Cat figures out the secret workaround that involves posting while the modem is disconnected where upon failure it invokes the X-10 protocol and gets through via the grid.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 20:02:58 (EDT)
From: Honey
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Let's Make a Deal
Message:
Hello All,

Me thinks we should try and make some $$$ by trend analysis of Pastor/Private Investor/Rawat's & friends of EV/Church/Foundation's recent acquisitions & mergers.

Company of the week:

Media Forum International, Inc (Florida)

Friends of EV/Church/Foundation:

Randy P listed as officer

Possibly: Christina M ( officer of United Pathways Inc.)

Looks like Decker School Lane in Malibu is a popular address.

Good Luck,
Honey
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 16:06:16 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: M's competition on the web
Message:
Who needs Maharaji and all of his money grubbing when you've got Learning Meditation?
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 08:45:36 (EDT)
From: catweasel
Email: Catch 22
To: Everyone
Subject: The Jim thread
Message:
What an extraodinary assessment we have below;On Jim Hellers personality? How can you assess something that very obviously does not exist?
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 17:37:33 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: catweasel
Subject: Do you want to be here?
Message:
Cat,

I'm not sure why you're still here but I wonder do you even care? Are you playing some sort of game, trying to get booted off so you can show your buddies that this forum really isn't a public commons? Hey, fella, who ever said it was?

Anyway, keep it up. You know, sow a seed.....
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 21:02:56 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: Boy Jim
To: Jim
Subject: Do you really want to hurt me
Message:
Dear James,how are you?Its been at least a week?Having read the thread below ,and many others , I stand by what I said in jest.James,you demonstrate zero tolerance to those with views differing from your own.You first showed a'young' Catweasel how to be vitrolic and meanspirited to those who dare to disagree with you .In my kitten days my responses matched your brainless barbs on CD's page. Your arguments[and thats all we ever see] are not based on what is actually happening NOW!!
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 21:52:27 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Oh Oh
Message:
Ohhh Nooo,

Cat, say it isn't so. Is there really a tiger in your tank now? This could get gory. Ugghh, I turn my head away when the Big Cats pounce and proceed to devour their prey.

Mary puttin on her shades.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 03:47:46 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: Eyes that gleam in the dark!
To: Mary M
Subject: Oh Oh not more jargon from Jim
Message:
The saying goes 'Every dog has his day' Probably refers to cats as well!Put those shades away,sit back and enjoy the show!Its cyber space after all, so if someone does get their throat ripped out, we all know its not real dont we? I think Jim's a bit rat-like;the only time you really get to see him is when he's cornered,and then boy, is he vicious!
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 14:34:00 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: Catweasel
Subject: Hello Cat
Message:
Hi Cat,

How's things down under?

What you doing over here Cat?

You seem to get into lots of arguments. Are you just here to get up people's noses, pick a fight with the bouncers, and make lots of noise?

Or would you find it possible to enter into a reasonable discussion about you, your master and his followers?

I've been sticking my neck out a bit here recently Cat, arguing that shp should be allowed to post here again, I'm probably going to get into discussion with someone about my objection to your being limited on how much you can submit.

So, Cat, maybe, as a sign of goodwill, how about answering a question or two with me? I'll answer any of yours in return OK?

So I notice I've asked you five questions already, but the 'serious discussion' one I'd like to start with, (if you want to play, that is) is,

What is your definition of a religious cult?

If it runs over 500 units, email it to me.

Anth the Nice Cop.
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 06:48:18 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: Hegel was right.But Marx missed it
To: AJW
Subject: Greetings AJW
Message:
Well its pretty simple anth,we tomcats tend to give the lame brains a bit of a spray every now and then.And it would seem that contrary opinion is considered invalid by mental giants like Jim and Jerry
The word cult is a convenience.For me it requires a belief structure [I don't have one].It requires singular purpose[I'm not interested],and a sharing of overall group resources[not for me]
In truth this description covers everything from Western style Democracy to the Cargo cults of New Guinea and Melanesia.
Like I said its a convenience,a term used to describe the indescribable.Good Luck Anth,reaction is its own reward.
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 09:03:52 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Questions from Kali Yuga
Message:
Hi Cat

Thanks for answering my question.

I notice you are eager to point out that each of points don't apply to yourself. Wassup? Feel a bit defensive on this one?

I'd like to pursue the topic if you don't mind.

On the point of not having a beleif system:

Do you beleive that Maharaji is the Perfect Master?

Do you beleive that what you experience when you practice is an experience of God, Truth, the Divine Energy?

On the point of not having a single purpose in life:

Don't you have a single purpose in life, to serve and please your Master?

Sharing resources:
Don't premies share the resource of their labour when they do service? Aren't publications, video, halls, festival sites, shared resources?

My question was, what's your definition of a religious cult. I'd hardly call Western democracy a religion.

Would you call Elan Vital a religious cult?

Would you call the followers of Bhagwan a religious cult?

What's the difference?

Anth the Anticipating.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 18:42:00 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Now and then
Message:
Your arguments[and thats all we ever see] are not based on what is actually happening NOW!!

Just for the record, Cat, what is actually happening NOW? I don't believe you've ever said. And don't you think that if M was all that, his past would be sparkling, something to be proud of instead of something you'd like to bury? I find it interesting how frequently premies argue that the past is the past, and now is now, and all the things M said was the babbling of a child trying to adjust to the western 'boneheads' he had to deal with.

Come on, Cat. This is your master we're talking about. You should feel proud of and inspired by everything he's ever said since he could only goo-goo ga-ga. No premie should ever feel a need to explain their master. His words should be able to stand on their own merit and nobody should wish he never said them. In fact, the wisdom of his youth should be quoted to this day for guidance and inspiration. Why do you want to keep it in the past? Are you ashamed of something?
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 19:54:19 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I was proud
Message:
of Maharaji. Satsangs like the Peace Bomb, the one in London in March 1977 (?) where he talked about Guru Maharaj Ji shutting the door, and many many others sent shivers down my spine. I really felt proud, honoured, and incredibly fortunate to be on this planet at the same time as the living lord in his greatest incarnation ever.

Now, premies, won't just one of you admit you feel the same now? Or is your understanding that you're not supposed to say such things going to prevent you??

John.
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 04:48:38 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: That has never changed
To: JHB
Subject: Respect,its personal
Message:
No, I'm really impressed with M and what he is doing now. He has never waivered from his stated intention of bring K to the whole world.Immense respect for his dedication and resolve,immense.
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 17:50:12 (EDT)
From: jIM
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: How funny
Message:
No, I'm really impressed with M and what he is doing now. He has never waivered from his stated intention of bring K to the whole world.Immense respect for his dedication and resolve,immense.

Do you have any idea how much money Maharaji makes?

Go ahead, tell me it doesn't matter.

Do you have any idea how many people have been or are confused by Maharaji who've sought some answers from him? Any idea how many he's answered?

Go ahead, tell me it doesn't matter.
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 06:21:19 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: Fantasyland
To: jIM
Subject: How Ironical!!!!
Message:
Do you have any idea how much money I make Mr Downmarket attorney?
Sorry ,I'm not telling you.You lawyers have satelite tracking staions designed to calculate running tabulations of potential client wealth!And you don't have to like them to take their money.How can you dare to talk about taking money when you gain an earn in such a parasitic 'profession'.Any other lawyers out there want to suddenly become 'ethical' and 'moral'?Who are you kidding James??
Question2:No,I don't and neither do you.Or ...do you??
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 08:31:40 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: How Ironical!!!!
Message:
Do you have any idea how much money I make Mr Downmarket attorney?

Hi Cat,

What is the going price for a bottle of 'Rescue Remedy' these days?

x,
Mary
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 04:40:50 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: Been to India Lately?????
To: Jerry
Subject: Just Now really interests me
Message:
Not at all, in fact I quite enjoyed the past with M.But if you seriously want to critise an aspect of what you perceive to be M's activities ,why not deal with the present?Current activities,1999.
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 05:33:50 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Catweasel
Subject: Just Now really interests me
Message:
Message: Not at all, in fact I quite enjoyed the past with M.But if you seriously want to critise an aspect of what you perceive to be M's activities ,why not deal with the present?Current activities,1999.

And I understand General Augusto Pinochet's a sweet old man nowadays. Why can't they just leave him alone?
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 06:29:58 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: The people united will never be defeated!!!
To: nigel
Subject: Just Now really interests me
Message:
No comparison!Viva Allende!!!Pinochet arranged the torture and death of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.Are you saying M[or through his agency],is a mass murderer and agent of severe physical torture.Hasta La Vista baby ,I think you've lost the plot!!!!!
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 08:47:05 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Catweasel
Subject: Missed the point again...
Message:
I am saying people are accountable for their pasts at least until they can come clean about them. Big sins, little sins - no difference.

You believe Maharaji is beyond criticism (Perfect, even?) because you won't apply the same criteria for assessing him as you would for anyone else.

(You're right about Pinochet, though, and I'm glad we can agree on something. I was beginning to thing you were some kind of alien life-form.)
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 08:30:36 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: As you request
Message:
Let's talk about the aspirant process. Maharaji insists upon aspirants going through this long drawn out aspirant process where he drills it into them again and again what a precious gift this K is. He wants them to be perfectly clear just how precious Knowledge is. Then he reveals it to them. My question is, how is someone going to know how precious K is before receiving it and practicing it?

Now, I know from listening to Maharaji that he would have his devotees serve him for their entire lives before revealing Knowledge to them, that's how precious he thinks it is and the price he thinks should be paid for it. You probably agree with him. I think its bullshit. He wants everybody to be like Kabir, who was the ultimate devotee, hopelessly in love with his master before he even received Knowledge. This is the ideal situation to Maharaji.

So, my complaint with Maharaji, NOW, is that he is so full of himself that he can't see that only a relatively small amount of people are impressed by him and/or his Knowledge. His ego is so huge that he believes if you're unimpressed with either or both, than you just don't understand. He is completely into himself. He thinks that he is IT. Not very many others do. Don't you think that's a bit egotistical of him? Wouldn't you say he has a problem with grandiosity? I would. I see no reason to put him into such a limelight. He's done nothing in my life that he should think so highly of himself. In fact, he's failed me. And others too. But he'll never admit that, to us or to himself. He'd have to stop pretending he's the 'perfect master' if he did.
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 09:10:40 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Jerry: About Kabir.....
Message:
'He wants everybody to be like Kabir, who was the ultimate devotee, hopelessly in love with his master before he even received Knowledge'

Actually all the Kabir stuff is probably bogus. There has been aloty of controversy about the poems of Kabir. Many of his poems are not accepted as authentic. In fact there were several 'Kabirs' at that time. The concept of satguru or master refers the 'The God within' or 'one's own self'.
Also the few poems that mention Ramanand as kabir's master have questionable authenticity.
If you are interested I can give you a reading reference to check this.
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 12:33:39 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr
To: Jethro
Subject: Jethro: yes, PLEASE
Message:
Also the few poems that mention Ramanand as kabir's master have questionable authenticity.
If you are interested I can give you a reading reference to check this.


If this is interesting, I'll of course have it on my website.
Post it, or e-mail!
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 17:42:45 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Re: Literature
Message:
Two books I have read on Kabir and Nanak are:
Guru Nanak and the Sikh Religion by W.H. McLeod, published by Oxford University Press, ISBN 0 19 563735 6

Kabir and the Kabir Panth by G.H.Westcott,
ISBN 81-215-0000-1

These books are results of research dome by the authors on their respective subjects.

WARNING TO PREMIES:These books actually contain real discussion and leave one to think for ones own self.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 19:28:38 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: catweasel
Subject: The Jim thread
Message:
The general rule is, Catweasel; leave a space after a comma, colon or semi colon and leave two spaces after a full stop. Also, begin with a capital letter after a full stop.
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 14:26:13 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: two spaces & HTML
Message:
Sir D.

leave two spaces after a full stop. Also, begin with a capital letter after a full stop

Yes, this is correct and I still do it myself out of habit. However, HTML or whatever always turns two or more spaces into one space.
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 18:27:23 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: The Jim thread
Message:
leave two spaces after a full stop.

Try    like   this!
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 19:27:12 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: The Jim thread
Message:
I have to tell you Rob, you're a real fuckin' creep and I was right about you from the git go. Now I do have a tendency to shoot first, and in the case of premies posting here I believe I have a 100% bullseye score.

You are such a liar and coward it makes me shudder. You're a perfect example of what happens to a (probably) basically decent person who swallows goober's jit. Hope you use a condom, I'd hate to see you infect anyone else.
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Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 00:36:48 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: The Jim thread
Message:
Am I missing something here?

This is relevant to the thread....how?

I guess sniping is allowed for the home team. Fair enough.

Enjoy your impunity, Gerry.
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 21:09:38 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Religion or Science
Message:
For anyone interested, there's a 'thinkoff' on C-Span right now about what's more dangerous, science or religion.
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 22:12:46 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Jerry
Subject: Religion or Science
Message:
Dear Jerry,
Damn, no C-Span in countrybumpkinville!
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 00:00:34 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Religion or Science
Message:
Robyn, don't feel so bad. You didn't miss much. Every year, this small town (bumpkinsville) in Minnesota invites 4 winners of a nationwide essay contest, which they put together, to come to their town to compete for first prize through debate. This year's topic was 'Which is more dangerous, science or religion?'

What I found interesting about it is that these are just ordinary people with ordinary jobs who are placed on the hotseat to demonstrate their thinking prowess. They're not experts on the topic. They just have to prove they think well on it, given what they know, something I don't think they always did.

The whole town turns out for the event, which is held in the school gym, to vote on who the best thinker in America is. Well, at least the best thinker who knows about the contest.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 04:08:47 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Jerry
Subject: Religion or Science
Message:
'Religions die when they are proved to be true. Science is the fossil record of dead religions.' (Oscar Wilde)

To your question, Jerry, I'd say that in social terms both activities are pretty harmless until they are exploited by people with political or financial power for purposes that are neither religious nor scientific.

Personally, I think it is far healthier to seek an accurate understanding and make sure you have not been fooled, misled or deceived with some hand-me-down hokum from others who may have been similarly fooled, misled or deceived. Of the two approaches to understanding nature and the universe, only science has a built-in self-correction mechanism, and will thus serve you better for all practical purposes. Even if it does not yet
know the full picture, science will at least admit to its limitations. Religion, on the other hand, will offer simplistic, universal 'truths' which it has no intention of falsifying.

(Footnote for CD: Science is also the best bet for understanding what your precious 'sense of wonder' is all about. Like it or not, Maharaji seeks to 'explain' just as much as any scientist does - or, rather, he asks you to accept his explanation without bothering to explain. For me, this is the central problem of all religions - especially cults, whose 'knowledge' derives from self-enclosed systems with no external reference points, nor even internal ones, other than the teachings of the 'master'. BTW: what do you think about the centrifuge experiments?)
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 20:37:18 (EDT)
From: William
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 1st technique
Message:
I received knowledge in 1974 and have a question about practicing the first technique for anyone who can help. I have a fear that it's a physical sensation of some sort resulting from the use of the hand and can't help thinking it can't be experienced without the use of the hand,well fingers to be pricise. That scares me and has held me back for quite some time. Like if something happened to me and I couldn't practice. What to do? Sorry if it sounds stupid but that's kinda where I'm at. Thanks, William
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 20:48:54 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: William
Subject: 1st technique
Message:
Dear William,
Sorry but I don't know the techniques by number. It has to be light or music though. I never got anything out of music but I did from light. I used my fingers while a premie but don't use them now or just a light touch on my third eye.
Hope that helps. Are you an ex who still meditates?
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:05:36 (EDT)
From: william
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: 1st technique
Message:
Thanks Robyn. I'm one of those people who 'thinks' about knowledge every day but doesn't practice every day. Don't know the techniquecs by number? You must be an old timer then. Light, Music,Holy Name,Nectar. I was sort of an ex premie since I recieved knowledge not because I didn't beleive in M but because After knowledge and I knew how to medatite I didn't see where he fit in. Now I see where he fits in . He's OK with me it's just what ifs about practicing that bothers me. Yea I was talking about the Light technique. Yor reply helps Robyn and thanks again. William
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 08:59:44 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: william
Subject: 1st technique
Message:
Dear William,
Yes, an old timer in premiedom and getting there in real life, thanks for pointing that out! :)
You didn't see where what fit in, meditation or M and didn't fit into what M's message or your life?
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 14:25:08 (EDT)
From: William
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: 1st technique
Message:
Hi Robyn, Well basically I didn't see any need for M since I thought all I needed was the techniques to meditate. I never disagreed with anything he said and still don't. That might bother some folks but that's how I feel about it. Dr. Larura would say 'I don't give a damn about your feelings!' hehehe. Gotta love her. I know I'll catch alot of flak from this but personally I don't see why so many people are down on him. Maybe I missed something somewhere. How he lives and what he does doesn't bother me at all. There may be a few things but nothing to the extreme I'm hearing about. I'll have to say also I never lived in an ashram so I never went thru that part but I am familiar with that kind of lifestyle. Bye sweet Robyn, William
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 21:35:23 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: William
Subject: 1st technique
Message:
You don't need your hands to look at light. Just concentrate on the place between your eyebrows. Personally though, I wouldn't practise it because any light I see gives me a headache and makes me dizzy and sick and what's more, once I get into looking at it the damn light won't go away.

I think it's just a light caused by the optic nerve. Other people claim to have seen something akin to a thousand suns but not I.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:17:25 (EDT)
From: William
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: 1st technique
Message:
It won't go away? And you're not using your hands? Cool! I take it you're a premie Sir Dave or an ex I mean. If it's something to do with the optic nerve and you don't need to use your hands to get it started then it must be an ongoing thing then. I have done it like that also but wanted to hear more about it before I jump back into it. It was my favorite technique. By the way, I just found this sight yesterday and it looks interesting. Since I'm sort of a newbie to this forum I'll keep my opinions to myself for a day or so. Thanks Sir Dave, William
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 15:50:42 (EDT)
From: Magnificent Martian
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: 1st technique
Message:
David:

I, too, got a headache from light meditation. At a certain point I would have to stop practicing because my eyes would water with the pain. I told a 'mahatma' about this once and he said there must be something wrong with me, and that I ought to see a doctor. What an idiot. Me: 'Doc, it hurts when I don X.' Doc: 'So stop doing X. Why are you doing X anyway? I've never heard of anyone doing that.' No one in DLM ever talked with anyone else about anything substantial, for fear of rocking the boat.

MM
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 00:34:39 (EDT)
From: Wm
Email: wm_r32@yahoo.com
To: William
Subject: the correct technique
Message:
I found that if there is any damage it is very much the effort. What I do is get three cloths pins, the ones with the spring, close your eyes, open the mouth of the clothes pin wide and work one over the mound of your eye ball that is covered with the eye lid. With the third clothes pin pinch some skin between the eyebrows and attach, you might have to cut the ends of the clothes pin off to make it flat or put the pin on sideways. Do not cut the pins that are used over the eyeballs for if the pin would slide off, the gap in front will prevent it from catching the eyelid skin. Get wooden clothes pins, not plastic. The plastic has tendency to slide off the mound and fall off, which is not that bad but it is distracting. The wooden pins don't slide as much because the wood absorbs the moisture. (always use dry clothes pins).

Wm
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 01:42:29 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Wm
Subject: the correct technique
Message:
I hope you're kidding because I have to say that this sounds INCREDIBLY painful! I think you might want to check with some other premies you know, or get a knowledge review, if you're determined to practice the technique this way.

By the way, I saw light (not brighter than 10,000 suns), but I KNEW it was what people were talking about when they talked about light, in my knowledge session. The mahatma did not press hard on my eyeballs either. I never saw it afterward, except for the 'golden donut', which I'm convinced is an optical nerve effect. I don't think you need to put pressure on your eyes to see light - if you're the 'light-seeing' kind of person, that is.

Anyway, please be careful with those clothespins.

Take care,
Katie
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 06:11:25 (EDT)
From: Wm
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: the correct technique
Message:
I have a method for the 4th technique I will tell sometime, its involves fishing line, novocaine, a needle, and an antihistamine.

Maybe I should have gave a warning of don't try this home. :) -Wm
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:26:23 (EDT)
From: William
Email: None
To: Wm
Subject: the correct technique
Message:
hehehe! You're OK with me Wm! William
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 08:34:11 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Wm
Subject: Don't try this at home kids
Message:
I thought it was a good joke, Wm. Similar to my own sense of humour. Of course, the other method of seeing light is to have a friend hammer a six inch nail into your forehead.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 13:30:21 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Don't try this at home kids
Message:
You speaking from experience here milud?

Anth the Commoner.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 14:29:52 (EDT)
From: William
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Don't try this at home kids
Message:
I like that one! Think I'll try it. hehehe. William
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 15:04:34 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Wm
Subject: Wm and William
Message:
OK, I'm less confused now (I hope.) Hi Wm, nice to see you over here on this 'other forum' :). And greetings to William, too.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 16:18:34 (EDT)
From: William
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Wm and William
Message:
Thanks Katie. William
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 19:40:50 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: William
Subject: Wm and William
Message:
You're welcome, William, and welcome to the forum as well. (But watch out for that 'Wm' character! I'm kidding - he's a nice guy.) By the way, I read your summary of your experiences with Maharaji and Knowledge above and I'm curious to know when you received knowledge.

Take care,
Katie
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 23:00:09 (EDT)
From: William
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Wm and William
Message:
1974 Katie in Atlanta during the summer, right before the program in Amhurst, Mass I think it was. Gonna go to bed now. I get up at 4:00 in the morning for worky. Good nite Katie, William
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 05:11:26 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Wm
Subject: the correct technique
Message:
Dear Wm,
I just read your post and then Katie's post to you but I think you are kidding or being sarcastic. When I had to take phosphosoda(sp) for a lower GI medical test I tried to put a cloths pin on my nose because it just tasted SO bad and I could not do it. You are kidding right?
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:21:35 (EDT)
From: William
Email: None
To: Wm
Subject: the correct technique
Message:
hehehe. I thought it was a joke Wm but you might be serious. I'll keep it in mind. Thanks William, William
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 09:28:23 (EDT)
From: Defandumb
Email: None
To: Wm
Subject: the correct technique
Message:
Thanks, Wm, I'll try that. You might want to try my technique for music. Set off a firecracker near each ear before you practice. Then you don't have to stick your fingers in your ears because you won't hear anything but 'music' for awhile anyway. Might last an hour or even a day depending on how close you place the firecrackers. You'll have to experiment to see what the right distance is for you. If you can enlist a friend, have him/her bang two garbage can lids next to your ears. I find this to be a safer method. Again, you'll have to experiment to see what the best distance is for slamming the lids. Everybody's different.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 10:43:11 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Defandumb
Subject: the correct technique
Message:
Another technique for both light and music together is to go up to the biggest and meanest man you can find in a bar and tell him that he stinks, has a small willy and his wife/girlfriend wasn't up to much in bed. This technique may also require the professional expertese of a dentist.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 14:53:27 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Wm
Subject: very funny!
Message:
Hey Wm - I read your clothespin post late last night and I guess you were kidding - at least I HOPE so! Actually, if I had figured out you were THAT Wm, I would have known.. Anyway, you fooled me.

But the worst part is that you fooled me because I KNEW premies who actually did things like this to 'intensify' their experience. Not just cutting their tongue, but other things too weird to mention.

Take care,
Katie
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 16:04:05 (EDT)
From: Wm
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: very funny!
Message:
I figured the pin thing would be fleshed out here as a joke or as being ridiculous long before any damage is done. I looked around a few minutes for a clothes pin before I posted, but I couldn't fine any so I am not sure it would even fit, though I know now it would not fit over a magnificent nose :>)

I have never heard of premies doing these types of things, I can't imagine what the methods used , that would be to weird to mention. There is the drug thing which I have to plead the fifth on, which I don't consider to be a meditation problem. The most exotic meditation enhancement I have used would be lying in a bath tub of hot water, but not lately, the tub shrunk.

Wm
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 19:18:15 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Wm
Subject: I'm gullible, I admit it
Message:
Especially when I'm tired. You're forgiven :).

P.S. How did your tub shrink? Sounds kind of suspicious to me.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 21:56:13 (EDT)
From: Wm
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: I'm gullible, I admit it
Message:
How did my tub shrink? Well that's kind of hard question to answer, I mean, its kind of confronting and I know you deserve and honest answer. I know that for a person to grow sometimes one has to answer these hard questions. I mean I am not trying to avoid the question because I can't always just respond to safe topics, its just not fair.

Sometimes I think its just the reality of the situation, I go alone and 'things' are a certain way then one day, I look and change has happened sometimes its good and sometimes its bad. Should I accept, I suppose one must, but should I go back and parse my life experiences to find a plausible explanation for the change? I don't know.

Or is it that I just ate to many twinkies?

Wm
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 23:04:44 (EDT)
From: William
Email: None
To: Wm
Subject: I'm gullible, I admit it
Message:
Nice spin Wm. My boss can throw a nice curve ball too. William
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 08:58:08 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Wm
Subject: Too funny! LOL (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 01:40:51 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: William
Subject: 1st technique
Message:
Have you ever closed your eyes in front of the sun? The light inside is 'brighter than a thousand suns.' don't bother with the first technique in a dark room you won't see a thing.

Swami Liz
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 02:57:43 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: William
Subject: 1st mistake
Message:
Bill,

You got it all wrong. You were given the clothes pins in the Knowledge session to pin open the corners of your mouth in the standard 'premie smile' format. This was intended to simulate the look of complete bliss necessary for propogation, until you realized Knowledge and your real fixed smile sets in.

Another use is to wind hanks of hair around them to make it curl. Or is it already, Curly?
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 04:08:14 (EDT)
From: x
Email: no
To: Rob
Subject: 1st mistake --- / BORING !!!
Message:
1st technique, ???????? --- Who cares.

Technique, a way of doing something.

1. To see a 1,000,000,000 - Suns, so, boring. ---------------------------------------- SEE
2. Next, to hear what may be, whatever/{?}, boring.--------------------------------HEAR
3. Next, taste, yummy yum yum yum, so, boring. -----------------------------------TASTE
4. Feel a vibe, not, “THE”, vibe, just a vibe, we all feel a vibe, so, boring. ------WORD

Not Boring - True/Real/selfless/love. 'because it is your nature!'

To want/need/and do, (to) take care of another person, because of the love and understanding that it is a natural thing to do, without a mindset or religion or a leader or Guru or little buddy or whomever, to have you feel or think to be obliged to have to do such and such, but, because, you, being you, are just so, “YOU/{THE BEST/LOVE}”.

Jai Sat Chit Ananda <-(spelling?) ------ true perfect consciousness of bliss

To thy own self be true, {not selfish, but, honest}, every thing else will fall into place.

What does it matter to gain the whole world and or all the experiences in the universe, if you do not have your own, some might say Soul, others, say, 'self', or that you are you for you.

C.N.P.B.S.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 06:34:53 (EDT)
From: Bill Cooper
Email: None
To: all
Subject: 1st mistake
Message:
Some one wrote here a few weeks back something that really hit home with me. It went along the lines of, experience reality. Go out and look at a tree, walk along the beach, enjoy the universe and dont worry about meditation.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:35:24 (EDT)
From: William
Email: None
To: x
Subject: 1st mistake --- / BORING !!!
Message:
Well said. Thanks William
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 04:47:51 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Suckers!
Message:
I think Wm was joking there. Anyway, here's a way to do the light technique without the use of hands or concentration:

Buy a young boy one of those bows and arrows where the arrow has a sucker on the end (and NOT a point).

Sit cross-legged in a position suitable for your meditation and then ask the young boy to shoot the arrow so that it hits your head where the third eye is supposed to be. After about fifty tries, he'll probably hit the right place on your forehead and then you'll have an arrow sticking firmly to your third eye with a sucker on the end. (Geddit?)
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:14:07 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Zounds!
Message:
Top of the morning to you mi'lud,

sounds like a wonderful idea. Where do I buy the young boy from?

Anth the institutionalised.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 19:49:35 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Zounds!
Message:
You buy a small boy in the same place where you buy a tallboy from, I guess.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:37:13 (EDT)
From: William
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Suckers!
Message:
hehehe. William
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 10:36:58 (EDT)
From: Wm
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: You talking to me?
Message:
Bill? Lived in Phoenix for a while and let folks call me Bill, though I never introduced myself as such. It was odd, someone would say 'Hey Bill!' several times before I realized that they were talking to me. Short stay in Phoenix, working with/in crews, after the real job layoff and the following dissolving of the company.

Wm
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 18:52:32 (EDT)
From: Curly
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: 1st mistake
Message:
Thanks for clarifying Rob. I thought the clothes pins were for the nipples. No wonder the techniques hurt like hell.
Yours truly,
Curly
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 07:32:03 (EDT)
From: William
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: 1st technique
Message:
Thanks Liz. I see light in a dark room ok, no problems there but in a well lit room the outer light sometimes drowns out the inner light. For awhile anyway. Thanks Swami, William
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 06:44:26 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: William
Subject: 1st technique
Message:
Try wearing a boxing glove on your right hand.

Shri Anth Ji.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 06:46:41 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: William
Subject: ...but
Message:
But don't bring your hand up too fast, you might knock yourself out.

Anth Tyrsom
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 19:55:54 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: How it could have been
Message:
Recently I have been feeling a sort of nostalgia about how M's trip was and could have been. A post below about someone's typical strong meditation experience led me to think about the possibility of a truly sincere spiritual teacher who also had wide appeal. Imagine a group of seekers all trying to experience the truth using whatever methods may help without getting into dogma and guru worship.

Because that is what I miss about the old days - the fact that it brought a lot of great people together and forced them to interact.

John.
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 21:15:29 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: How it could have been
Message:
yeah I know John. I was jus tsaying that to someone a few days
ago. Even used the word nostalgia. But nostalgia can be tricky
it can be more like what that 'other cult' calls it
euphoric recall.
we are remember the good things. Let's balance it with:
constant phone calls from the community coordinator/ representatvie/ phone contact and / whatever the fuck it's called now. Funny thing the title changes but not the essense of the call. We need money for... fill in the blank....

And worst of all the brainwashing. the way of looking at life. That put M and his BS above the really important things that matter, Friends, family, whatever it is for you..whatever it is.. it matters and we screwed them/it in fave of what Powerman just called a 'dumpling' of a guru
(he is pretty much forgiven of all evils for that one!!! in my eyes anyway)

Good to see you again. and talk to you.
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 00:09:51 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene/JHB
Subject: How it could have been
Message:
There was good stuff about being a premie. Sincere people wanting to be loving and giving to one another, and doing their best to bring about positive change in the world, being disciplined and focused on something positive.

Like Selene said the negative stuff was there too: The focus becoming more and more Maharaji instead of on loving and uplifting one another, and more and more paranoid, and more rigid.

But I feel nostaligic also at times. I really do think that is a good thing not a bad thing, to remember the good times and to still want those things--love, care, innocence, making a positive difference in the world.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 19:46:28 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: How it could have been
Message:
So true, JHB, so true.
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Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999 at 22:47:41 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: How it is
Message:
Hi John

Don't fergit, if you go to any church or group that
has 'god' or 'oneness' as it's focus, and hang out a while,
you will start to see the cracks and dissention and
backbiting and smallness and all the rest of
human nature cropping up and you will see that the
union of these folks is a facade that is permeable.

There IS no group that could ever come about that hits
the union thing in such a way that they pull it off.
Tyrants try to enslave people by many methods of
forced 'cooperation'.
hindu guru's do it with claiming to be god and telling you
to stop thinking and obey.

NO matter HOW we bond with others, we cannot change people
and the completely unalterable way we are.
Our design is that we are completely different from the
next guy. We luckily bond a lot, but only to a point.
People somehow crave more, and are willing to believe
fantasy in the pusuit of this elusive 'union'.

But, facts are, we just can't unite.
And if a group DID for a while, thier kids would
wreck it when thier turn came.
We can't unite with god, and we cannot unite with
each other.
It's good!
That's the smart design!
More suffering sure, but more creativity and chance
for freedom.
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 09:21:25 (EDT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: KB
Subject: WHACK ME!
Message:
Aww, KB, why do ya hafta go and destroy our fantasy?
Naw, you are absolutely right.' What is' is that the world is the way it is. And we all hafta make the best of it, but it'll never be perfect.
Thanks for the reminder, you crazy zen master you!
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 18:51:03 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Admit you're wrong, Sandra
Message:
Q: Maharaji, can you get Knowledge from smoking pot?

A: See, suppose I am living on the moon. I am not getting any hashish, I am not getting any drugs, not even a cigarette. So suppose God comes to me at that time, and says, 'You must receive Knowledge.' Do I say, 'God, I haven't got any hashish to smoke, so how am I going to get Knowledge?' There is only one way to receive this Knowledge, and it isn't by hashish or anything like that. Why? I'll tell you. Because hashish is a physical thing. You smoke it inot your body and you smoke it out of your body. Its effect is a physical effect. It affects your mind after affecting your body. And any process that must be applied through the body will not take you there. You can't find yourself with hasish, you can only lose yourself.

Q: No, man, you're wrong.

A: Let me tell you. This hashish smoking has only started here recently. In India they have been smoking it for a long time. These sadhus, if you ever see them, they completely lose themselves. They think about different things, things come into their mind, but all these things are external, it is not the Knowledge. Of course you get an experience, but if your car is going at 90 m.p.h. and it has a power brake and you put it on suddenly, so that you hit your head and you see light and hear music, you might think, 'Oh, this is divine light.' That's just a physical experience.

Q: But when I have a good smoke, I think of love. That's all I think of.

A: Then continue to smoke if that's what you want. But thinking of love is not experiencing love.

Q: But everybody who smokes, they love, you know? Those who don't smoke, the cannot love.

A: Maybe, but I don't smoke.

Q: You don't smoke and you still love? Maybe you're special.

A: It would be far-out when you get this Knowledge, because it will take you higher than hashish. These plants come from nature, but this Knowledge is nature. By smoking you can experience something, but with this Knowledge you will experience everything, and you don't have to smoke anything.

This interview appeared in Maharaji's 'authentic authorized' bio, Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?. I post it because you stated below that Maharaji never advocated not smoking pot and definitely never said that he himself didn't. You scoffed:

It's a dead line of reasoning (hypocrisy) unless he said 'that's the way I live' which he never did. Not even in Hindi.

Well, as you can see, he did so claim to not smoke pot. After all, as he said, smoking pot makes you 'lose yourself'.

Apologies, Sandra?
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 23:26:18 (EDT)
From: Sandra
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Admit you're wrong, Sandra
Message:
I grovel, I salaam, I marvel at the wonder of YOU. You found a quote! Of course, he was 13 but YOU FOUND A QUOTE!! I apologize Jim. I underestimated your abilities as the world's weirdest librarian.

Actually, he sounds wise beyond his years and very intelligent for a 13-year old.

'Q: But when I have a good smoke, I think of love. That's all I think of.

A: Then continue to smoke if that's what you want. But thinking of love is not experiencing love.'

Notice the lack of judgement or condemnation.

'Q: But everybody who smokes, they love, you know? Those who don't smoke, they cannot love.

A: Maybe, but I don't smoke.'

Notice where the questioner is coming from. Imagine Jim Heller's response to that question. And remember he's 13 so whatever happened or didn't happen with Donner in '75, he IS answering truthfully.

This is all in the CONTEXT (a concept that seems to elude you regularly) of the questioner asking, 'Maharaji, can you get knowledge from smoking pot?'

'Because hashish is a physical thing. You smoke it into your body and you smoke it out of your body. Its effect is a physical effect. It affects your mind after affecting your body. And any process that must be applied through the body will not take you there.'

Pretty bloody clear. What guidance were you giving at 13? Other than to 'Little Jim?'
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 23:40:58 (EDT)
From: Mary M
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: Admit you're wrong, Sandra
Message:
Hi Sandra,

Pretty bloody clear. What guidance were you giving at 13? Other than to 'Little Jim?'

I've noticed this age issue coming up quite frequently concerning Maharaji.

I'm wondering:

1. How old was he when he met Marolyn?
2. How old was he when he married Marolyn?
3. How old was he when PremLata was born?

Could you possibly give us a suitable age people with K would mark as the commencement of Maharaji's accountability for his words and actions.

In the mean time I will assume that Marolyn was appointed his guardian as well as his wife at their wedding.

Sincerely,
Mary
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Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999 at 23:57:12 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: Your sarcasm's misplaced
Message:
I grovel, I salaam, I marvel at the wonder of YOU. You found a quote! Of course, he was 13 but YOU FOUND A QUOTE!! I apologize Jim. I underestimated your abilities as the world's weirdest librarian.

Well Sandra, I agree. It is pretty damned weird doing all this quote stuff. I mean, amongst exes it's never necessary. We were all there. We remember our common past. Why in the world would we need to prove it to each other? But dealing with unconscionable revisionists forces us to play this stupid game. Kind of like arguing with holocaust deniers. I know you understand. The point's obvious.

As for his age, I don't know where you think that tack'll get you. For one thing, jsut to be clear, however old Maharaji was when he gave this stupid interview, it was the one Q&A session chosen for this oh-so-important tome, the 'authentic authorized' story, blah, blah, blah, that came out when he was 16.

But let's go your route for a sec. Other premies have tried in similar desparation to excuse Maharaji's this or that to his youth. I just wonder how much you can do that and still be left with anything but an ugly farcical balloon that deflates before you even get it out the door. After all, this same book lauds Maharaji as the 'greatest incarnation of God that ever trod the face of this planet'. Was he all of that but just a little green at the same time? Hm? How does that all work anyway?

Anyway, there are so many things one could say about your answer.... you credit Maharaji with being nonjudgmental. Now, let me get this straight, here's a kid who, if he's to be believed, has never smoked pot. And this kid is telling this guy that he can 'only lose [his]self' by doing so. And that's non-judgmental?

Okay, I won't press the point. You'reobviously flailing and, as you know, I'm nothing if not generous to my opponents here. So we'll leave that.

Hey, how about this vain effort of yours to cover for Maharaji:

And remember he's 13 so whatever happened or didn't happen with Donner in '75, he IS answering truthfully.

So are you saying that Maharaji didn't know what he was talking about? You know, all that stuff about 'losing oneself' or fake experience analogy? Was Maharaji just full of shit then? Or did he decide to lose himself a bit in '75? What's your take?

Anyway, we could hash this out all we want. Like I say, I don't want to be mean. You were wrong and that's that. The key lesson here, though, Sandra, is that you're not as smart as you think you are. You glibly tried to whitewash the past and, fortunately, there's enough evidence from then to keep the record straight. You were caught being, at best, reckless and inaccurate, at worst, deceptive. Neither engenders trust or respect. I'd say it's time you wiped that smile off your face.

Oh and by the way, comparing me at 13 to this little wind-up toy is meaningless. I never claimed to be God. Get it?
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Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 11:56:21 (EDT)
From: JF
Email: None
To: Sandra
Subject: Admit you're wrong, Sandra
Message:
Notice the lack of judgement or condemnation.

Precisely Sweet Sandra, let us examine the non-judgementalism of our gentle, kind and precious Maharaji.

You want to hold onto your principles? Do you want to know whats going to happen to you? I'll tell you whats going to happen. Your ship's going to sink!
You want to hold onto your principles? I'll tell you whats going to happen. You're going to die!!


Or how about this sweet bit of non judgementalism from MJ?

You know sometimes people come to me and they say
'Maharaji, there are people here who are playing with my head.
Well all I can think of saying back to them is, 'maybe if you didn't have such a big head, people wouldn't want to play with it!'


Ah yes,simple lessons from your non judgemental Maharaji.
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Date: Tues, Jun 15, 1999 at 14:29:54 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: JF
Subject: Admit you're wrong, Sandra
Message:
Pardon me Sandra,

But I can't help thinking you and Rob both sound a little self righteous. It's very familiar to me to see some premies (those in the front rows for example) looking smug. You can almost read their minds. 'I'm all right, Jack who cares about you to the freaked out premie elsewhere on the planet.' In fact the whole look. ie 'I've done service and I feel wonderful' or 'I'm in the roped off section don't I feel wonderful' or 'I'm going to the res, aren't I wonderful - HOLY even,' makes me want to vomit.

Don't think I've gone to programmes envying people - I have done the service etc. and had that smug feeling too but I care too much for others to want to experience this anymore. The last pre-event service meeting I went to there was a girl crying, 'I don't feel that Guru M cares about me' and there were all these idiots patting her on the shoulder, saying 'He does, He does.' HOW THE HELL DO THEY KNOW? I think she was talking about m in person not the experience in side that makes us feel all warm and cosy. She obviously wasn't experiencing much joy from either direction. I expect she got an hours solace from the brainwashing that he gave later. Hope so anyway.

Love,

Liz - fed up with the whole hierarchical Hindu Guru system.

p.s. If you want to feel that peace inside just meditate if you can't get it any other way. Forget all the external crap.
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