Ex-Premie.Org

Forum III Archive # 54

From: Jun 28, 1999

To: Jul 8, 1999

Page: 4 Of: 5


Seymour -:- New Forum? -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 12:01:59 (EDT)
__Robyn -:- New Forum? -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 14:55:15 (EDT)
____AJW -:- New Forum? -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 15:53:08 (EDT)
______Robyn -:- New Forum? -:- Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 00:12:59 (EDT)
____Seymour -:- New Forum? -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 15:59:20 (EDT)
______AJW -:- New Forum? -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 16:09:55 (EDT)
____VP -:- New Forum? Attention, Robyn -:- Tues, Jul 06, 1999 at 22:52:56 (EDT)
__Brian -:- New Forum? -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 15:53:53 (EDT)
____Seymour -:- New Forum? -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 16:21:30 (EDT)
____g's mom -:- New Forum? -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 19:04:48 (EDT)
______cp -:- New Forum? 2 cents -:- Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 06:30:33 (EDT)
________cp -:- and -:- Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 06:39:17 (EDT)

Katie -:- Server Problems -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 11:52:29 (EDT)

Katie -:- Test nt -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 11:33:11 (EDT)
__Katie -:- Test reply nt -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 11:34:55 (EDT)

Marianne -:- Good bye -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 14:08:37 (EDT)
__RT -:- Time to say Good Buy -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 14:36:22 (EDT)
____gregg -:- bye -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 15:09:03 (EDT)
______Selene -:- bye -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 14:11:26 (EDT)
__KB -:- Scheduleing a visit -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 15:19:15 (EDT)
____Liz -:- Scheduleing a visit -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 15:33:09 (EDT)
______Liz -:- Don't Go Marrianne -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 15:36:39 (EDT)
________Way -:- Don't Go Marianne -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 17:19:45 (EDT)
______Selene -:- bored with the gooroo -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 14:15:57 (EDT)
________Liz -:- bored with the gooroo -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 14:47:11 (EDT)
__________Selene -:- bored with the gooroo -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 16:55:52 (EDT)
____________Liz -:- New Horizons -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 20:36:17 (EDT)
______________Selene -:- New Horizons -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 21:28:39 (EDT)
______________Katie -:- New Horizons -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 23:49:50 (EDT)
________________Selene -:- New Horizons -:- Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 00:40:18 (EDT)
__________________Katie -:- New Horizons -:- Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 01:57:46 (EDT)
____________________Selene -:- New Horizons -:- Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 14:15:22 (EDT)
__Katie -:- Good bye -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 23:38:00 (EDT)
____Liz -:- New Horizons -:- Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 02:19:25 (EDT)
______Katie -:- New Horizons -:- Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 02:39:41 (EDT)

Sir Dave -:- Here is the other forum -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:55:57 (EDT)
__bad barney -:- Here is the other forum -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 05:06:09 (EDT)
____AJW -:- Crumpet? -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 05:20:50 (EDT)
______barney the baptist -:- Crumpet? -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 13:33:12 (EDT)
__Aaagh -:- locked out of paradaise again -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 05:16:56 (EDT)
____JHB -:- locked out of paradaise again -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 06:55:59 (EDT)
__X -:- Here is the other forum -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 06:39:34 (EDT)
____And of course there's -:- always the Sheep Channel -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 19:30:27 (EDT)
______Katie -:- Change the channel... -:- Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 02:58:02 (EDT)

AJW -:- Free Jim. -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:42:05 (EDT)
__X -:- 'Free Jim.' Free Jim? -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 06:29:53 (EDT)
__Rob -:- Beating up premies -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 17:13:02 (EDT)
____AJW -:- Beating up premies -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 13:32:35 (EDT)

Liz -:- Maharaji is boring. -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 02:08:48 (EDT)
__AJW -:- Painting. -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:28:11 (EDT)
____Liz -:- Painting. -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 15:56:15 (EDT)
______AJW -:- Painting. -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 16:33:42 (EDT)
________Liz -:- Painting. -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 16:44:35 (EDT)
____Liz -:- THECASTLE (ot) -:- Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 03:38:40 (EDT)
______Catweasel -:- THECASTLE (ot) -:- Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 10:05:38 (EDT)
__chr -:- Maharaji is boring. -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 05:09:36 (EDT)
____gregg -:- art -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 11:08:35 (EDT)
____RT -:- Art is long and life is short -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 11:15:18 (EDT)
______Marianne -:- Paint girl! -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 12:52:32 (EDT)
____AJW -:- Exhibitions -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 16:35:35 (EDT)
______chr -:- Exhibitions -:- Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 07:24:32 (EDT)
________AJW -:- Exhibitions -:- Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 14:59:14 (EDT)
__________chr -:- Exhibitions -:- Tues, Jul 06, 1999 at 02:28:54 (EDT)
____________AJW -:- Exhibitions -:- Tues, Jul 06, 1999 at 12:47:53 (EDT)
______________chr -:- Exhibitions -:- Wed, Jul 07, 1999 at 00:24:31 (EDT)
____Katie -:- to chr -:- Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 23:55:02 (EDT)
______chr -:- to chr -:- Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 07:16:17 (EDT)
________Katie -:- to chr -:- Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 00:18:55 (EDT)
__VP -:- Maharaji is boring. -:- Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 14:53:17 (EDT)
____Liz -:- Maharaji is boring. -:- Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 19:51:13 (EDT)
______VP -:- Maharaji is boring. -:- Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 16:04:28 (EDT)

O0‡Ÿ -:- Welcome to the Shit Farm -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 18:09:52 (EDT)
__AJW -:- Bet you never thought... -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:03:54 (EDT)

DAC -:- Matthew 13:3-9 & John 4:24 -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 16:06:51 (EDT)
__AJW -:- Matthew 13:3-9 & John 4:24 -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:05:27 (EDT)
__KB -:- Your missing the boat. -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 15:51:48 (EDT)
____Liz -:- Swami Rama -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 16:14:22 (EDT)

JHB -:- SSM still allowed in India -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 09:04:39 (EDT)
__AJW -:- SSM still allowed in India -:- Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 15:13:47 (EDT)

Jim -:- Okay, Brian, block me! -:- Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 22:04:14 (EDT)
__barney -:- found this nice quote -:- Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 22:37:09 (EDT)
____Brian -:- Read my post below -:- Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 23:02:34 (EDT)
____JW -:- Of Self-Image and Reputation -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 14:07:54 (EDT)
______Jerry -:- Of Self-Image and Reputation -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 18:53:22 (EDT)
____Denise -:- Barney the Dinosaur (ot) -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 21:47:14 (EDT)
__Brian -:- Joey, Barney, you're on notice -:- Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 23:00:11 (EDT)
____Runamok -:- Quick Thoughts -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 00:18:19 (EDT)
______we are 'coming out' from -:- Quick Thoughts ?measur of time -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 04:49:29 (EDT)
________Runamok -:- measure of time -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 11:51:50 (EDT)
__________U. R. -:- measure of time -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 03:11:58 (EDT)
____Just Because -:- Joey, Barney,For the sake of L -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 04:07:50 (EDT)
______Susannah -:- JERRY --- A GAME -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 05:34:50 (EDT)
________Love, -:- JERRY --- A GAME -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 05:41:59 (EDT)
________Jerry -:- JERRY --- A GAME -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:01:29 (EDT)
__________barney -:- Doom! Yeah! -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:10:21 (EDT)
____________Wm -:- Doom! Yeah! -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:45:41 (EDT)
______________barney -:- Sorry, not hip to gameworld -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:56:55 (EDT)
________________Wm -:- Sorry, not hip to gameworld -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 20:04:48 (EDT)
______JW -:- Whoever wrote this..... -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 15:24:05 (EDT)
____JW -:- Request re Blocks -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 14:21:32 (EDT)
______Brian -:- Request re Blocks -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 16:06:23 (EDT)
________JW -:- Request re Blocks -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 18:50:04 (EDT)
__________Marianne -:- Request re Blocks -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:05:05 (EDT)
____________KB -:- Brian -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 16:06:45 (EDT)
______________KB -:- My error -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 16:09:03 (EDT)
________I hear you -:- Request re Blocks -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:23:07 (EDT)
________Jean-Michel -:- BRIAN: Another suggestion -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:07:55 (EDT)
__________barney -:- Screaming at Anything Goes -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:59:42 (EDT)
__Sir Dave -:- Jim, Barney & Joey -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 06:11:01 (EDT)
____Teacher -:- Jim, Barney & Joey -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 10:43:11 (EDT)
______Jethro -:- Teacher -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 10:55:33 (EDT)
______Sir Dave -:- Flattery dear Teacher, ah -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 14:16:13 (EDT)
______JW -:- Jim, Barney & Joey -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 14:25:22 (EDT)
______Pauline Premie -:- Jim, Barney & Joey -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 14:35:37 (EDT)
________A Premie -:- Jim, Barney & Joey -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 14:51:45 (EDT)
__________Satsang Sam -:- Jim, Barney & Joey -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:22:44 (EDT)
________An Assole -:- Not required -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 22:14:21 (EDT)
______70's -:- Naughty children -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 02:43:26 (EDT)
______AJW -:- Premies -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 05:04:15 (EDT)
________Whatever -:- Premies -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 07:25:11 (EDT)
__Della -:- Cut and Dry! -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 20:24:12 (EDT)
____JW -:- What Are You Talking About? -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 20:36:12 (EDT)
____Gerry -:- Cut and Dry! -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 20:36:35 (EDT)
______Gerry -:- JW! Look! -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 20:38:51 (EDT)

Sir Dave -:- You might like to comment -:- Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 21:18:25 (EDT)
__Sir Dave -:- More from Gustavo -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 06:39:07 (EDT)
____Jean-Michel -:- like talking about lobotomy -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 10:31:13 (EDT)
____Teacher -:- No Dave -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 10:55:51 (EDT)
______Sir Dave -:- More nonsense, I'd say -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 12:11:09 (EDT)
________Curly -:- On the techniques -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 13:16:44 (EDT)
______Jerry -:- No, Teacher -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:42:30 (EDT)
________CD -:- No, Teacher -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 20:24:40 (EDT)
__________Gerry -:- No, Teacher -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 20:44:00 (EDT)
____________CD -:- Teaching -:- Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 23:50:36 (EDT)
__________Inner Game of Tennis -:- A game -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:19:49 (EDT)
____________Liz -:- Inner game of Golf -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 16:20:47 (EDT)
______________A game -:- Inner game of Golf -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 19:39:07 (EDT)
__________Jerry -:- No, Teacher -:- Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 06:25:50 (EDT)

Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 12:01:59 (EDT)
From: Seymour
Email: None
To: Brian & Everyone
Subject: New Forum?
Message:
After being away for many months I feel like I have come back to a different forum to when I left. I know there has always been a few differences of opinion, but things seem to have gotten a bit vitriolic in recent times. Also the banning of Jim is a great shame. I don't pretend to know why this has happened - despite having read most of the recent posts and explanations I still feel none the wiser and can't see anything that has not been going on since the forum started.
Maybe I have missed something.
I much prefer rational discourse to agressive argument but if that's what some of those who post here want to do then nobody else has to read their uninspiring baloney.
I do not think off topic discussion is any reason to ban anyone. Personally I would rather talk about most any other thing than Maharji and his clan, and always regarded this as an open forum hosted by, but not exclusive to, those of us who travelled the path of 'knowledge'. Having this in common gives us a launching point for all manner of discussions, hopefully helping each other move forward towards self fulfillment and finding what we are supposed to be doing with our lives - now that we realise that we were misled by following the path laid out for us by our previous Lord and Master.
I agree with Runamok when he says..
'There is room for debate and its a good thing- one that Mirage discouraged and that we should encourage, but it doesn't mean the place should resemble a hostile food fight.'
But I think that your declaration Brian, regarding Jim, is a bit over the top for either having a food fight or 'chit chat'. Remember how we were not allowed to talk about anything other than satsang as premies.
'he is now blocked from posting on this forum.
This forum has a topic. Read the forum introduction if you have questions about that. Off-topic posts happen regularly, but we do not encourage them here
This job isn't about making friends, being liked, or having anyone cheer for you. '
I appreciate the above and all the work that you have put in Brian - you have done a great job. But, surely Jim has not become a different person in the last week, and whatever he has done cannot be that bad - at least no worse than his previous antics. The problem is I find his posts intelligent, witty and perceptive, if a little gung-ho sometimes. We need more of such stuff and the forum will not be the same place without him - his absence makes me less inclined to 'tune in' more often - as does the inane, competitive, point-scoring exchanges that seem to be occurring more often. I know Jim has been known to indulge in such exchanges of insults, but at least he does it with humour.
As I said before there is probably a lot that I am unaware of - if you find time could you say, in a few sentences, why he is banned - did he threaten violence or what?
If it is to do with the of topic thing - perhaps it is possible to create a sub forum. I know there is the Anything Goes Forum but that is at another site and is too open. I mean a forum for people looking to find inspiration through other than mystical, superstitious practices. Once we leave the premie world we all need a little help to find our way in the big bad world out there and discussions on philosophy, psychology, genetics etc - not to mention how to make a decent living, would go down a treat.
I don't expect you find any of this helpful Brian, and I really do admire you for your efforts - but I just thought I'd have my say.
Cheers
Seymour
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 14:55:15 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Seymour
Subject: New Forum?
Message:
Dear Seymore,
Nice to see you again. :) I have been taking a forum break but maybe it is quiter here now. I like quiter, personally. All I can tell you is that what was going on here REALLY freaked me out. I don't have time right now to explain and I am moving away from the whole thing. It all really sent me back to some childhood traumas. I faced it for a bit but it feels good to have it go back down to the basement. :)
I think things will be resolved one way or another in time.
Love,
Robyn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 15:53:08 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: New Forum?
Message:
Hi Robyn,

hows things in the wilderness?

I think things will be back to normal soon. Everybody gets sick of public rows after a while.

Anth the Libran.

ps. Have you heard the Tom Waits new albumn?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 00:12:59 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: New Forum?
Message:
Yes, actually Mickey the P. told me about it, Jess, my daughter has most of his stuff and she got it, said it is great and is bringing it here in July.
Have you heard of Charlie Christian? I have a great Jackson C. Frank CD, ever hear of him? :)
Robyn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 15:59:20 (EDT)
From: Seymour
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: New Forum?
Message:
Hi Robyn,
This gets curiouser and curiouser? Sounding a bit like the 'x' files
'what was going on here REALLY freaked me out.'
Come on Robyn, spill the beans. What has been going on?
I feel a bit out of touch. When I was on the forum up until a few months ago - everyone seemed a jolly bunch. The disagreements were mere badinage but now people seem to be getting upset.
If only people would take to heart that august pslam of the late 20th century ..
'Always Look on the Bright Side ( of life ) ( doo doo )'
Cheers
Seymour.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 16:09:55 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Seymour
Subject: New Forum?
Message:
Hi Seymour,

Best read the archives or you might start another punch up. The blood's not all been mopped up yet.

Your advice about the Monty Python song is most appropriate.
There's also the old favorite from the Private Eye Blue Album, to the tune of 'Whistle while you work.'

'When you're feeling glum,
stick your finger up your bum,
and smile, all over your face.
When you're feeling grotty,
stick a finger up your botty,
and the world's a happier place.
Cos when you're down, and feeling dead,
just stick a digit where a digit fears to tread.
etc.'

Anth the immature.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Tues, Jul 06, 1999 at 22:52:56 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: New Forum? Attention, Robyn
Message:
WHERE HAVE I BEEN???!
Sorry to scream. I KNOW this is an old post/old news, but Robyn will you please e-mail me when you see this?
Thanks,
VP
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 15:53:53 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Seymour
Subject: New Forum?
Message:
I appreciate your concern, and also your thoughts on the forum. I also thank the others who have posted their concerns and ideas on how things can be straightened out.

This is a different forum than the one that you left. Most people seem to be waiting for the all-clear to be sounded so that things can return to normal.

But the 'normal' condition on this forum is what I wanted to get away from, and had gotten away from for 3 short weeks. 'Normal' is also the condition that caused Barney to resign in frustration after only 3 weeks of being subjected to it. Nobody here seems to want to step up and take on the problems that normally consume the time and emotional efforts of people crazy enough to volunteer. I certainly don't blame them, and neither does Barney.

Barney and I spoke on the phone last night for a couple of hours. Everyone here has seen that we've both been angry with each other, but the 'right' to disagree and learn to come to an understanding afterwards isn't withheld from us just because we've both been in the hotseat. In many ways, he and Katie and I are the only ones who really do understand the way that site problems have of enveloping and overshadowing personal problems until the emotional backlog is more than we can deal with. There's no forum to turn to for forum-masters dealing with meltdown. And none of us get to take off for a few months.

Right now we're working on a solution to the problems faced by people who do this job, so that it can return to being a job that can be done at a minumum cost in personal grief.

As for Jim, he has made his choice. It's unreasonable to expect that anyone who volunteers his/her time to do this job and take on the responsibility and the problems associated with it should be expected to cater to anyone else's selfish demands. Jim's 'right to post' on this or any other online forum has always been guaranteed by the efforts of someone else. On the one single occasion in over 2 years of forum existence where he was told by the person who has been ensuring his 'right' that he must either back off of a fight or be blocked, his childish response remains, 'fuck you'.

In contrast to Mr. Heller, G's Mom volunteered to be blocked for a week's time a while back. She did that because she shared an IP with someone who was disrupting the forum. She was willing (and quickly volunteered her patience and understanding) to forfeit her 'right to post' so that the rest of you could post unencumbered by the idiot in question. That week gave me time to write a work-around in the software, and her posting 'rights' were restored afterwards. Most of you never knew about it. She didn't go around bragging about it. She is truly a classy person and deserves everyone's respect here. She certainly has mine.

But then, she earned it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 16:21:30 (EDT)
From: Seymour
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: New Forum?
Message:
Hi Brian,
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. I am amazed that you find the time to keep the forum up and running and sympathise with your burden of resposlibility.
'There's no forum to turn to for forum-masters dealing with meltdown. And none of us get to take off for a few months.'
It sounds like you are finding the job of webmaster a bit of a downer sometimes. I and others appreciate the work that you are doing. The early days of the forum seemed like a buch of ex-premies enjoying each others company, giving and getting support,
and enjoying the fun of being irreverent. Now there seems to be an unnesccessary( I had to look that one up in the Dictionary as I have no spell checker) level of seriousness.
Anyhow,take care of yourself and I know that no-one can accuse you of not being conscientious and giving due consideration to your decisions.
Cheers
Seymour
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 19:04:48 (EDT)
From: g's mom
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: New Forum?
Message:
I have not followed this whole thread....the Barney/Joey/Jim, I do not have an opinion on who is right or wrong because I tried to read it all but it was simply too time consuming.

However, I really am going to miss Jim. Jim bugged me too, the cursing, the sometime meanness he would unleash. But I think all in all his effect on the forum was positive.

I am worried though that we'll never get to see the next 'Maharaj Ji apologia', Guru Party, letters to Linda Gross, and most of all the tenaciousness of his terrier like attack on the pants leg of some premie trying to weasel his way out of an argument.

So I am kind of sad. But I am withholding judgement as I have not sorted through the rubble.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 06:30:33 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: New Forum? 2 cents
Message:
Brian, I have inserted this on a couple of threads., but since the subject is under discussion, ---

If you are looking at the forum and the role of the Webmaster,from the outside looking in, it seems important to point out that you and Katie seemed like you shared the job, whereas Barney seemed to be working on his own.
If you or Katie came under attack, I am sure the other would have been there to consult with before things got out of hand.

It seems that you were to were in on hand in some capacity for Barney, but as a forum participant, it looked as if he was working on his own.

I am left wodering if he had a 'shared position ' as webmaster, it would have been usefull. Like 2 heads on the lookout for smoke rather that one person fighting a fire
while another fire is fanned by his vigor.

It seems to me that Jim jumped in and got caught downwind.
(And lit a few backfires of his own of course.)

In other words- make it a shared position for the protection of the webmasters.

cp
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 06:39:17 (EDT)
From: cp
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: and
Message:
Have you considered a separate section where the 'blockable' comments can be put? Sort of a holding tank for arguements/argu-ers?
Then the 'normal' posters can proceed with dignified discourse, while the more energetic of discussions cand be observed or participated in?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 11:52:29 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Server Problems
Message:
We've been having a problem with the server thaqt hosts this forum since last night. People were able to read posts, but not to MAKE posts. This problem seems to have mysteriously fixed itself, although we did speak to tech support at the server, and he said it might not get fixed until after the long holiday weekend (in other words, Tuesday). Anyway, if you are not able to post, that's what the problem is.

Sure hope I can get THIS post through!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 11:33:11 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Test nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 11:34:55 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Test reply nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 14:08:37 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Good bye
Message:
When things get better here, perhaps I'll return.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 14:36:22 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: omm
To: Marianne
Subject: Time to say Good Buy
Message:
Happy Shopping!

Remember good luck is self-created.

RT
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 15:09:03 (EDT)
From: gregg
Email: binduesque@yahoo.com
To: marrianne
Subject: bye
Message:
Whassamatter, Marianne, aren't bickering and backbiting among your favorite things to do while plugged into the World Wide Weasel?

Lurk on by now and then to see if things get better.

In the meantime, let me know if you run across any other thoughtful, wild or wacky forums or Websites.

I'll be on vacation for four out the next five weeks, myself. New Mexico and Maine.

Enjoy the City for me: I have good memories floating around in the fog.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 14:11:26 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gregg
Subject: bye
Message:
New Mexico and Maine. Interesting combo. Enjoy gress. I am getting out of here for a little while myself, in a few days.
And, it looks like I got lucky and won't have a laptop or computer access! Enjoy.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 15:19:15 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Scheduleing a visit
Message:
Come around on July 9
I have a couple posts for you that are funny.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 15:33:09 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Scheduleing a visit
Message:
Dear Marianne,

I hope you don't leave and leave me in this den of wolves! I appreciate your Emails and care. I'm getting to the enlightened state of boredom on M which is an amazing breakthrough after all these years.

Love,

Liz

(please keep in touch)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 15:36:39 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Don't Go Marrianne
Message:
Last post should be headed like this to Marianne. (See last post Marianne.)

Liz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 17:19:45 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Don't Go Marianne
Message:
I hope that (1)things do get better here, and (2)that you return. I appreciate the thoughtful discourse that sometimes happens here, and the contributions that you have made.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 14:15:57 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: bored with the gooroo
Message:
Isn't it great when that happens? I am getting there too. It's amazing it only took 18 months. But the twisted up thinking is still resurfacing unfortunately so I am still reading here for support. Sometimes I wonder why.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 14:47:11 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: bored with the gooroo
Message:
Dear Selene,

I guess the twisted thinking will raise it's ugly head from time to time but for the most part I'm feeling relatively sane - again.

As for M - He can't Give it Away!

Love,

Liz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 16:55:52 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: bored with the gooroo
Message:
'HE can't give it away'

HA! So true, not that he ever did. Dispite the talk. Good for you, feeling sane I mean. I'm getting there. Had to go throught the angry girl phase but it's getting boring too. Oh god what' snext? New Age???
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 20:36:17 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: New Horizons
Message:
Hi Selene,

What are you interested in? The world's your oyster!

I love the feeling of unravelling! I have just got in touch with my old friend Suzy Witten - we travelled to India together. Now people will really know who I am and you know I really don't care!

Much Love,

Liz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 21:28:39 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: New Horizons
Message:
Thanks for asking what I am interested in. Aside from writing and educational technology, my REAL PERSONAL interest at the moment is learning how to be good to myself. To be discriminating in my choices of lifestyle and who I choose to spend time with. And hopefully this will lead to being better to people around me.
This may sound simple to some, but to me it is a contsant battle and learning process.
I used to care very much if people found out who I am. Then I stopped caring. It felt good to be out of hiding. and I even started the process (still waiting on one dumb thing) of changing my name to Selene. Most of it is done. It's been fun and also painful. But I'd never trade it for being a guru zombie again.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 23:49:50 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: Liz and Selene
Subject: New Horizons
Message:
I am bored with the Goo Roo too (and I have been for a while). It's nice when you can get to the point where you're just plain disinterested. I am quite fond of most of the ex-premies here, though, which is nice :).

I really liked both your posts about new horizons, BTW. Liz, I read your post below about starting to paint and draw again, and it struck a chord with me. I went back to college after I quit being a premie - I was only 21, luckily for me, and I was an art major for a few years (I am reasonably talented, although more of an illustrator than an artist.) I decided not to pursue my interest in art after I began working in an advertising agency part-time - I realized that doing THAT kind of art for a living would kill any joy I got out of it. So I switched majors and got a degree in my other big interest, which was environmental science. However, I continued to paint, draw, and do work in textiles for my own pleasure. (Liz, I could really relate to your learning to know all the wildflowers in your area - I love things like that, since they combine my two interests).

But, anyway, I have neglected my artwork for the past several years (partly because of the work involved in this site/forum), and found your posts and chr's posts to be inspiring. Thanks for that.

Love to you both -
Katie
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 00:40:18 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: New Horizons
Message:
Thanks Katie. I did see your post on Anything Goes, thanking me for the phone call. I did send email to you and Brian today, thanking YOU BOTH. so when your server is up you will get it hopefully. Our talk last night was extremely healing. I can't tell you how much it opened my eyes, helping me see a whole other way of looking at forum, being an ex, etc...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 01:57:46 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: New Horizons
Message:
Thanks, Selene.

As you probably know, Brian and I spend a LOT of time talking and thinking about this issues you mentioned (forum, being an ex-premie, and so forth.) Brian 'left' Maharaji far more recently than I did - he was on the fence for years, so he has a very good perspective on these things - more than I do, for sure. (He promises to write his Journeys entry soon, BTw. Also - nag, nag - what about yours??) Anyway, I am very glad that y'all finally got a chance to talk.

Love,
Katie
who is one of the several insomniac goddesses of Eastern Daylight Time... (Did you ever hear that Fugs song: 'She's my slum goddess of the lower East Side'? Anyway, all of us who are still awake out here send greetings to the Insomniac Goddess of Mountain Time...)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 14:15:22 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: New Horizons
Message:
my god Katie. You and I do have similar tastes in music.
You know it sounds almost as miserable there as here. In the summer. Although we are in our so called 'rainy season' tho it never rains. But it gets to at least 50 to 60% humidity and 105 to 110. So I have become a night person for life at this point.
Yes I did get that from talking to Brian, about all that he has been through. Amazing story. Very moving. Even in my over stressed state it touched me deeply. Did my email ever get through? Love, selene
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 23:38:00 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Good bye
Message:
Hope to see you back soon, Marianne.

Love,
Katie
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 02:19:25 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: New Horizons
Message:
Hi Katie,

Haven't spoken to you for a while. I realized tody that I am involved in conservation more than I thought I was. I am keeping my forest garden as much as I can, native. Native wild flowers, duckegg orchids, woodlillies, shooting stars etc. I have just met up with a wild flower grower who turned out to be an artist and we are going to work together. She is going to teach me a lot I suspect.

I am feeling MUCH better and I give credit to the Forum. So even with all it's wackiness it's a good thing.

Love,

Liz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 02:39:41 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: Liz
Subject: New Horizons
Message:
Hi Liz -
I am so glad that you are feeling better (and glad that you attribute some of that to the forum - even, though, as you said, it HAS been wacky lately).

I am also very interested in native plant species, although I have to confess that I really LIKE some non-native species, and that I grow them in my garden. I'd love to have a native species garden if and when I settle on a place to live permanently.

By the way, you mentioned Susie Whitten. She was living in the Washington DC ashram around the time I received K (late fall, 1972). I am sure she would not remember me, but I've always been very grateful to her, and a few other women in the DC ashram (Connie Best and Jackie Murphy come to mind - I'm sure there were others), for being so kind to me and the friends I received K with. We were basically a bunch of confused 16-year-old kids whose families had disintegrated; we were into all kinds of very destructive things (drugs, weird spritual trips, etc.). Susie and some of the other women in the DC ashram were so accepting and kind to us. It made a lot of difference in my life, and in the lives of my friends. I believe that the love and caring that these women showed went far beyond M and K, and that they were just genuinely good people.

Anyway, I have no idea what Susie's status regarding M is now (it really doesn't matter), but if you do contact her, please thank her for 'being there' for me and others. It really helped a lot.

Take care, Liz -
Love,
Katie
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:55:57 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Here is the other forum
Message:
Jean-Michel mentioned down below about the need for another forum. Well there IS another forum up and running for anything and everything as Jean-Michel mentioned so just point your browser to The ANYTHING GOES forum and you'll see Jim, Barney, Joey and many others all doing battle on this no censorship and no blocks forum.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 05:06:09 (EDT)
From: bad barney
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Here is the other forum
Message:
Ah, Europe is awake again.

Yes, the Anything Goes site is great. One request, though, can you get those women to stop dancing. They all are into dancing and I can't think straight. I'm fighting for my life there and there's all that damn disco dancing day and night. And maybe change the radio station to classical.

The food is pretty good. And those little things are crumpets?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 05:20:50 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: bad barney
Subject: Crumpet?
Message:
Morning Barney,

Hope you are well and not letting some of the shit that's been flying your way get to you too much.

You have friends in Latvia.

It's only computer files right?

So, my question, by 'crumpet' were you refering to the food or the dancing women?

Anth the Hungry.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 13:33:12 (EDT)
From: barney the baptist
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Crumpet?
Message:
AJW,

As a strict Southern Baptist I am appalled at you Brits. No wonder we had to abandon England and come to the new land.

There is only one bread of life, one manana, and that comes from God and not from the tugging of long saris worn by women.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 05:16:56 (EDT)
From: Aaagh
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: locked out of paradaise again
Message:
Morning milud,

This is the second time I've been kicked out of paradise.

I eagerly leapt into cyberspace, hungry for the cry of battle, and a connection with the 'Paradise' server could not be established.

Aaaagh. The cry of frustration instead.

On another topic milud, you may have noticed a small gathering of London Exes took place over several pints this week, south of the river. Such a pleasant evening was had by all that we decided to do it again, next time at the 'Latvian Club' where JHB is not only well connected, but remembered in a well known Latvian folk song.

I digress.

Your name came up and you were conspicuous by your absence. So, on behalf of the Latvian Chapter of the South London Ex-Premie Liberation Front, we'd like to have you as honoury guest at the next branch meeting/pissup on Latvian beer.

Your humble servant,

Anthony.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 06:55:59 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: Latvian Club
To: Aaagh
Subject: locked out of paradaise again
Message:
On another topic milud, you may have noticed a small gathering of London Exes took place over several pints this week, south of the river. Such a pleasant evening was had by all that we decided to do it again, next time at the 'Latvian Club' where JHB is not only well connected, but remembered in a well known Latvian folk song.

I digress.

Your name came up and you were conspicuous by your absence. So, on behalf of the Latvian Chapter of the South London Ex-Premie Liberation Front, we'd like to have you as honoury guest at the next branch meeting/pissup on Latvian beer.

I can confirm this invitation. However, it will have to wait until either mid-July or Mid August due to my travels to Canada and Latvia.

John the Latvian Globetrotter
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 06:39:34 (EDT)
From: X
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Here is the other forum
Message:
Jean-Michel mentioned down below about the need for another forum. Well there IS another forum up and running for anything and everything as Jean-Michel mentioned so just point your browser to The ANYTHING GOES forum and you'll see Jim, Barney, Joey and many others all doing battle on this no censorship and no blocks forum.

_____________________Separator____________________________

>. Hi, 'hahahahahaha', I thought your AD was so funney, not that it is supose too be, and so on, it semed as if your a TV guy Commercial 'Pitch Man' that was hope to move a number of nice Humans here to that 'place'.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 19:30:27 (EDT)
From: And of course there's
Email: None
To: all
Subject: always the Sheep Channel
Message:
patiently await shri shri not so harry SHP, aka HRM Sandford Pass the gefilte fish, here
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 02:58:02 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Change the channel...
Message:
...and you would probably get more response. Sheesh!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:42:05 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Brian & Kate
Subject: Free Jim.
Message:
Hi Brian and Kate,

What's the forum going to be like without Jim?

Who's going to beat all the premies up?

And who's going to be banned next?

When I was a teacher, if two children were having a big argument, it was always important to be seen to be fair.

If two people are having a fight, knocking the furniture around, why not ban them both for a limited period till they cool off?

Anth
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 06:29:53 (EDT)
From: X
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: 'Free Jim.' Free Jim?
Message:
'If two people are having a fight, knocking the furniture around, why not ban them both for a limited period till they cool off?'

-___--------_--_-___----------__-____--___-

He, 'WebMaster', has already stated publicaly that they may come back at any time after they talk to HIM, and that they will be good.

If I'm wrong please forgive me, but that has already been put out there.

Good to hear from you - P.S.I.K.3
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 17:13:02 (EDT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Beating up premies
Message:
Careful Anth, or I'll have to set the Stubley's on you!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 13:32:35 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Beating up premies
Message:
Hi Rob,

I thought a 'Stubley' was a kiss from a bloke who needed a shave, which reminds me of something that happened the night I came to London to receive knowledge, but that's another story.

Anth the Redcheek
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 02:08:48 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Chr & All
Subject: Maharaji is boring.
Message:
Hi Chris & All,

I have just read a post way down south from Chr saying Maharaji is boring. I anxiously been waiting to get to this enlightened state (of Boredom with the guy.)which I feel I now have. Now I can truly get on with my life and the one dimensional story of 'middle aged women oohing and aahing over this guys dirty laundry' said it all. Along with boredom re the guy comes an enthusiasm for life that I have not experienced in the thirty years I have 'practiced' this so-called knowledge.

No need for Prozac the guilt has left and I am enjoying my garden and my piano. Maybe I'll even start painting again.

Love,

Liz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:28:11 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Painting.
Message:
Hi Liz,

get those paints out now!

Buy a nice sketch book and some pencils.

I want to see four or five masterpieces by next month.

Painting is better than mediation.

Sculpture is better than satsang.

Watching 'Neighbors' in the afternoon in your underpants, is better than service.

Anth the Art Teacher.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 15:56:15 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: AJ, Marianne, Chr ,Gregg
Subject: Painting.
Message:
Thanks for responding so beautifully to my post. I also want Marianne and Katie to know that they should hang in there with the wolves (dancing) because they are really helping people. They certainly helped me. If it hadn't been for the Forum I wouldn't be where I am today which is ALOT saner than I was in that cookie cult.
I used to design clothes in the U.K. before I received K in 1970. I dedicated myself to M for thirty very uncreative years before I found the forum. (Luckily I have a beautiful husband & daughter that have stood by me.)
I paint in watercolour. Study wild flowers of my area. Paint them too. I am loving gardening again too.
M in my life was one big procrastination which by your grace I am now rid of.
I wrote and asked him if I could be an instructor and of course he never replied. Well M - Go booze yourself or whatever you want to do but please know you have some very creative premies out there that you stunted.
Love,
Liz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 16:33:42 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Painting.
Message:
Hi Liz,

We weren't stunted. We're just late bloomers.

Both my wife and I love painting.

Do you play any instruments?

(It's never too late to learn)

Anto Thickaso
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 16:44:35 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Painting.
Message:
Yes I play the Piano. Royal Conservatory. I'm glad you and your wife are painting and M doesn't have that effect on her. I guess I just blame him for my procratination but I am being a lot more creative since getting out of the rut.

Liz the Creative.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 03:38:40 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: THECASTLE (ot)
Message:
If I watch Coronation Street every afternoon and spend this much time on the forum I won't get any painting done. I already have all the tools of the trade.

Righty o teach.

Just went to see a movie that I think you'd love. A very funny Australian movie.

Have you seen it. Laughed I nearly cried.

Love,

Liz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 10:05:38 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: THECASTLE (ot)
Message:
Re Rob....'Tell him he's Dreamin!!'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 05:09:36 (EDT)
From: chr
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Maharaji is boring.
Message:
Hi Liz,
Go for it! Art was my passion before I received K. After leaving school I went to Uni art college. Only 30 of us were accepted out of over 1000 applicants. Soon after graduating I received K. Can you believe I threw it all away for M and K. About 8 years ago, while detoxing from Maharaji, I began painting again. Since then I have exhibited regularly. Over the past four years I have shown in London, Paris, N.Y, Sydney, and Santa Fe. So forget M-basically he takes us away from ourselves, who we really are and our talents. It was such a joy to paint and draw again. Fortunately I wasn't completely out of touch as I'd taught art at high school and university on and off over all those years-off was during times of full time service. The only time I used my ability in art during the M days, was doing cards for the community to send to M, and once I illustrated some book Rich Neale did of his songs which he gave to M.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 11:08:35 (EDT)
From: gregg
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: art
Message:
Yes. It's a strange and life-negative concept we held: that our expressive capabilities were 'of the mind,' unless specifically used for the benefit of Maharaj Ji. Again, one of those concepts not expressly verbalized, because it would sound so stupid and cultish, but there it was.

That concept was inextricably yoked to the concept that you, as a person, were shit, so, of course, anything you as a person expressed (whether it was part of your own personal story or a universal truth about what it is to be human) was shit, too.

Beware of idealism, political or spiritual, that necessitates throwing out the beautiful you with the bathwater.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 11:15:18 (EDT)
From: RT
Email: omm
To: chr,
Subject: Art is long and life is short
Message:
Me too! I used to draw Ancient Romans pretty well:
Render Unto Ceaser.

Now it's pc/win95
but I will get out the art tools soon
and draw a conclusion about the Perfect Scamster.

RT
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 12:52:32 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Paint girl!
Message:
Liz: I am so happy to read this post. Do you use or watercolors, both, what? What are you contemplating painting? Focus on those paints and not on the fool.
Love you, Marianne
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 16:35:35 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: Exhibitions
Message:
Hi chr,

if you have another exhibition in London, send us an invitation.

I love paintings and free white wine.

Anth the Ligger
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 07:24:32 (EDT)
From: chr
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Exhibitions
Message:
Hi Anth,
The last exhibition I had in London was in Sept. 96 at the Mall Galleries near Trafalgar Square. I covered costs but didn't sell immense amounts. My agent who is a lovely seventy year old French woman, has decided that Londoners love admiring art, but not buying it. They're probably too busy spending their money on less important things like rent and food. So there are no immediate plans for another show there, but if it happens I will let you know.
Chris.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 14:59:14 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: Exhibitions
Message:
Hi chr,

my wife and I are Londoners and we buy art.

If ever you're in town, we'll invite you round to look on our walls and shelves.

Anth the Feeder of the Poor Artist (ask Malcom Livingstone).
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Tues, Jul 06, 1999 at 02:28:54 (EDT)
From: chr
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Exhibitions
Message:
Hi Anth,
Sounds wonderful. I was really having a go at the art scene-not Londoners. The exhibition payed for a great holiday in Britain, so I shouldn't complain. What sort of art do you collect?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Tues, Jul 06, 1999 at 12:47:53 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: chr
Subject: Exhibitions
Message:
Hi chr,

we mainly have paintings. There are lots by my wife- I don't let her sell them because I really like them and can't bear to part with them. I always offer her more. She paints on hubcaps. We've got a great display of about a dozen in the hall.

She does oil on canvas too, and there are a few of those on the walls.

We've also got a few of Malcom Livingstone's paintings and sketches. He's a good friend and given me some lovely sketches over the years. He's done some wonderful paintings and we've bought two.

We've got two paintings by another brilliant premie artist called Paul Dufficey. He designed the sets on quite a few Ken Russell movies and a couple of his operas. Paul is a lovely guy and comes and stays occasionaly.

We've got a couple of photographic pieces by a friend, and photographic artist, Fabrizzio Pannatone, a wild and crazy Italian.

I piece of sculpture by Paul Riley, also an old premie friend. His work is starting to get known a bit now, and he's had pieces commisioned by all sorts of organisations.

We've got several small, low cost bits of art from Africa and the Far East.

An original Rick Griffin 60s pyschedelic poster that Mona Paterson gave me.

Original Robert Crumb, 'Don't forget to wipe your ass folks' in the bathroom.

An installation in the corner of our kitchen that my wife did. It's an altar to religious kitch. She let me put a picture of Maharaji in his Krisha costume on it.

We've got a big room in the basement that's been graffitied on all four walls by two good graffiti artists.

There are a few sketches and bits of pottery that our children did.

Think that's about it, but I'm sure I've missed something.

I'm in the process of building a website, it's going to take months before it's ready, but it's going to be our apartment, done with 360 degree cameras (I've already got some pics). When you click on a picture on the wall, it will be displayed full screen, with a bit of info. So hopefully, early next millenium, you'll be able to take a virtual tour and look at everything.

Blimey chr, I didn't expect to write all this.

Anth the Artist's Friend.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Wed, Jul 07, 1999 at 00:24:31 (EDT)
From: chr
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Exhibitions
Message:
Intriguing- the religious kitch sounds just the sort of post-modern piece that would do well in some of the London galleries.
Chris.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 23:55:02 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: chr
Subject: to chr
Message:
dear chr,
Since I'm a fellow artist, although not of your caliber, I would LOVE to see some of your paintings. Do you have any scans that you could send me? (I could also travel to Santa Fe if you have an exhibition there again). I'm not sure of your anonymity status right now, but you can always contact me through our mutual Australian friends.

Thanks,
Katie
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 07:16:17 (EDT)
From: chr
Email: sarana@bigpond.com
To: Katie
Subject: to chr
Message:
Hi Katie,
Perhaps we could swap photos of our work. Unfortunately I don't have a scanner, but if you want to email me your address, I'd be more than happy to send you some photos in the mail.
Chris.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 00:18:55 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: chr
Subject: to chr
Message:
Thanks, chr. I don't have any photos of my work to exchange, but perhaps I could scan the photos of YOUR work for you. I'll e-mail you when I get a chance (ha ha).

Love,
Katie
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 14:53:17 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Maharaji is boring.
Message:
Hi, Liz,
I, too want to say that to me, Maharaji is boring. I only come around to this place to sneak a peek when I get an email telling me something here is happening. The people here aren't boring, that is for sure!! :)

I just wanted to tell you that I thought your post was wonderful--a great testimony for living your own life. Real life ain't always easy, but at least it's real.

Here's to being yourself,
VP
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sun, Jul 04, 1999 at 19:51:13 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Maharaji is boring.
Message:
Thanks VP. I don't believe I've had the pleasure. But it's nice to meet you. I don't know if you noticed but I really went through it when I fist came on this forum but things have definately got better!

Love,

Liz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 16:04:28 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Maharaji is boring.
Message:
It's good that things have gotten better for you! That's excellent. I haven't been around for a while, but used to be here everyday. It's very nice to talk to you, as well.
VP
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 18:09:52 (EDT)
From: O0‡Ÿ
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Welcome to the Shit Farm
Message:
Grab a shovel.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:03:54 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: O0
Subject: Bet you never thought...
Message:
...you'd end up in a cult.

Ah well, it happens to the best of us.

(Unless all the other cults look like yours, but yours is really different right?)

Anth the Sorry to Break the Bad News.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 16:06:51 (EDT)
From: DAC
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Matthew 13:3-9 & John 4:24
Message:
Behold a sower went out to sow.
And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them.
Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth.
But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away.
And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them.
But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop; some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 13:3-9
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth.

John 4:24
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:05:27 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: DAC
Subject: Matthew 13:3-9 & John 4:24
Message:
Nice to hear such pearls of wisdon DAC.

Did you make them up yourself or are you a plagiarist?

Anton and Chips
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 15:51:48 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: DAC
Subject: Your missing the boat.
Message:
Whatever Jesus/yeshua did, his one 'commandment' was to
love god, others, and your self.

rawat, who you attempt to bolster by your two quotes,
Did everything BUT love his family neighbors and himself.

He demanded LEAVING all relationships and having a barren
loveless life worshiping him even though when you got
anywhere near the guy it turned out he was totally
incapable of even the slightest bit of actual love.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 16:14:22 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: KB
Subject: Swami Rama
Message:
I went to 'satsang' a couple of evenings ago with my nextdoor neighbour. It was with disciple of Swami Rama (who is now dead) and his disciple Swami Veda who was alive and set up on a stage (just like M) except with two gopi's up there as well - one middle aged and the othere young and nublie.

I couldn't believe how these people are taken with this just like we were. There's still this smug vibe like I'm cool and this is the thing to do.

Swami Rama even published an English rhyming version of Kabir's poems to met his own ends and he was almost as bad at poetry as M. Here's a sample (close your eyes and ears RT - practice K)

'Religion, caste and culture do not make a sage;
Spiritual attainment should be your only gauge.
See the sword; let the sheath be.
Ignore how he appears; only his wisdom see.
If you ignore his guidance you're wasting your time;
The spiritual preceptor is one with God sublime.
Truly, the Master's guidance you must gain;
From him, spiritual wealth you will attain.
Kabir warns: Never overlook the importance of this;
Converse with sages, seek their love & bliss'

What a crock - Kabir was telling people the only God was inside and outside but definately not limited to a Guru as far as I understands it.

Love,

Liz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 09:04:39 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: SSM still allowed in India
Message:
This is from the ELK site. Notice how the premie still does Satsang, Service and Meditation, and how the site controllers translate without mentioning that M used to demand that ALL premies dedicate their lives to these three things. Also, Satsang now means gathering to watch a video of M, not what we did for all those years:-

Rashmi from Ahmedabad, a large city in the western state of Gujerat, tells how she enjoyed finding Maharaji's website.

EL: Many of you will be familiar with the word 'satsang' - Hindi for 'company of truth'. For those who are not, in this context, it means an event or meeting where people gather to watch a video of one of Maharaji's addresses from his world-wide speaking tours. It can also refer to the written and spoken word. 'Seva' is the Hindi for participating or helping out.

I am Rashmi Khatri from Ahmedabad in India.

First of all let me thank Maharaji for providing such a beautiful website for us. Really it's great.

I received Knowledge when I was at school and quite young. In my family everybody has Knowledge. We all enjoy 'seva', 'satsang' and practicing Knowledge. But after marrying it was very difficult to continue with this way of life due to a very different environment in the other house.

But I have never forgotten Maharaji and I have always had faith in him. I always felt that I was taken care of and that he was with me through all the ups and downs of my life.

It has not been possible for me to attend 'satsang' regularly. Although I felt that Maharaji was always with me, I started to feel that I was going away from him.

But after visiting the two sites I felt so happy: now whenever I want I can have satsang.

Thank you very much for everything.

© 1999 enjoyinglife.org. All rights reserved.

John.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 15:13:47 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: SSM still allowed in India
Message:
shit,

and I thought this post was about handcuffs and high boots...

anth the sad bastard
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 22:04:14 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Okay, Brian, block me!
Message:
Just got some email from Brian advising me that he'd warned me once -- warned all of us, in fact -- to 'back off' and that my 'constant meddling' was doing nothing to help douse flames that were settling on their own. My last post to Katie, he said, was already deleted and unless I shaped up that was it. No one owed me an explanation for nothing, was the import.

Well that's it for me. I don't expect this message to last long either but I think I'll post it just for the sheer fun of it all.

First, Brian, you're wrong, Joey's crazy bullshit does involve me. He started slagging me out of nowhere as soon as he perceived that I wasn't impressed with his ugly innuendo about Barney. And that's just directly. Indirectly, he entered a conversation group I was in -- the forum -- and accused one of the members, Barney, of deceiving us all. That includes me. Hey, I'm involved.

Brian, your inability to understand Barney's rights here are almost unfathomable. You would just let this thing die, huh? That's fine for you to say but you're not the one accused of unspeakable crimes (and stupid misdemeanours). If you had your head on straight here's what you would do:

Insist that Joey state his case fully. No innuendo, no shadow nothing, the whole salami. If Joey didn't do that or alternatively apologize for this whole sordid mess that he created, not me, you should block him immediately. It's one thing to believe someone's a spy or whatever. It's another to refuse to say why instead of continuing to harrass the accused.

If you don't, as you know, Joey will continue to await every post by Barney so he can shake his ugly paranoid druel on him. I wouldn't expect Barney or anyone to stick around too long under those circumstances. If he splits, Brian, it's your fault. You could have done something.

There's more but why bother? This post won't last longer than the time it takes for you to find it. Have a good one.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 22:37:09 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: found this nice quote
Message:
Many people confuse their right to free speech with the perceived right of consequence-free speech.

I agree with Jim. He has been dragged into this by Joey. Jim has every right to defend himself here. Sure this might not be the appropriate venue, but this is where Joey has chosen to fight his battle.

Indeed, I am feeling extremely confused about myself. In fact, I feel like I'm becoming as obnoxious as Joey and am very much considering leaving town as difficult as that may be.

Bottomline is that I don't think that Joey can stop himself. This has been going on since April and for what reason I still don't know. It's making me feel very badly about myself and it makes the Forum look like a snake pit.

Yes, someone needs to enumerate Joey's allegations. And, Brian, it sounds like Joey has confided in you so if Joey cannot do it then can you?

Let's get this thing over with one way or the other. Loser has to either apologize and shut up or leave. This isn't fair to anyone here. If I have done anything wrong prior to my revealing the location (an internet cafe in Montreal) for which I apologize then I have the right to know exactly what charges I'm up against otherwise it just a smear campaign of libel and innuendo.

As undesirable of a task that it is, I believe that it is the webmaster's responsibility to maintain some kind of fairness and order regardless of the volatile nature of the Forum. Repeated and groundless allegations of misconduct and even illegal acts are very much different then the usual name calling. I believe that Joey has accused me or implicated me in some kind of harassment of a person here. This is serious business that is, again, way beyond name calling. I'm being accused of a crime here. Unless there is one valid shred of evidence it is libel regardless that you think that somebody is posting as Barney the Dinosaur has no rights. I have rights and they are being trampled

Again, many people confuse their right to free speech with the perceived right of consequence-free speech.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 23:02:34 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: barney
Subject: Read my post below
Message:
My position is clarified.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 14:07:54 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Of Self-Image and Reputation
Message:
Barney, I just wanted to say that from what I have seen, I, too, think you have been unfairly and publicly attacked and I can seen how most people would feel mighty frustrated at not knowing what the basis is for those attacks and I empathize with you and feel bad about it. I think most of us would feel the same way. For most people, their personal reputations are very precious and worth defending. That's what is so frustrating about innuendo. You can't defend yourself and that goes to the core of the self-image of most people. I know that in the one area where you might have done something wrong, which is debatable, you admitted it and apologized. That shows a lot of integrity and I would think the issue would be closed.

I also want to say I feel VERY uncomfortable that Jim has been blocked for what appears to be doing nothing more than coming to the defense of someone he believed was unfairly attacked. That's an admirable quality in my book and not something that should be punished, but rather encouraged. If there is some 'behind the scenes' reason that Jim shouldn't have been doing that, well, I can see why there would be concern, but he shouldn't be penalized when is doesn't know what that information is.

I hope that whatever blocking is going on will be short-lived. From what I gather, it's a pretty humiliating experience to be blocked. It must be kind of like being gagged. I would once again get on my soap box to suggest that it be used on only the rarest of occasions for very serious violations.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 18:53:22 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Of Self-Image and Reputation
Message:
Nice post, JW. I agree with you on all points, especially about innuendo. If anything should be blocked, that should be. And speaking out against it should never be forbidden or punished.

Just my humble opinion.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 21:47:14 (EDT)
From: Denise
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Barney the Dinosaur (ot)
Message:
All this time I was picturing barney as the drunk on 'The Simpsons'. Now I have to totally reframe my view to the cute purple dinosaur my kids used to love. I guess that should tell me something about you.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 23:00:11 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Joey, Barney
Subject: Joey, Barney, you're on notice
Message:
I didn't want this job back. I took it when Barney dropped it after he couldn't handle the fire that flickered due to his having blocked Joey. He blocked Joey because Joey had been accusing him of being an untrustworthy undercover plant of some sort. That should have been the end of it, but Barney was unwilling to stand up to the disagreement over his handling of a very difficult job.

After Barney returned the site to Katie and me, we unblocked Joey and then attempted to mediate this inherited mess OFFLINE. We've talked to Barney, we've talked to Joey, and we've talked to Jim. Each of them agreed individually to stop using this forum as a platform for their VERY off-topic dispute. Each of them has seen fit to continue to wage the battle here, and to justify it ad-nauseum.

I said in a previous post that I wanted everyone to back off, and that I was willing to block anyone who didn't want to comply. I've been very patient and allowed the argument to continue to simmer here in hopes that it would soon go away. While most of you have kept out of the fray, and those who did post on the topic have not done so in any manner meant to incite further accusations from either Joey or Barney, the 2 principals in the dispute have continued to trade blows here.

To make matters worse, Jim kept the battle going by demanding an explanation from Joey. In response to my warning post, Jim replied with 'Back off Brian'. The only reason that I didn't immediately block him after reading this was that Katie interceeded and arranged via email for him to call. I let him know then that his position was precarious, and he agreed to back off. He hasn't done so, and today after deleting a post by him which only served to further inflame the situation, I sent him email telling him very clearly that he would be blocked if he persisted. His response is posted above, and he is now blocked from posting on this forum.

This forum has a topic. Read the forum introduction if you have questions about that. Off-topic posts happen regularly, but we do not encourage them here. Fights break out, but we do not encourage them here either.

The links page contains listings for other forums that allow you to squabble to your heart's content. I recommend Sir David's 'Anything Goes' forum, personally.

While this little battle has been raging here, there have been new people coming in who want to talk about Maharaji, about the stress involved in leaving the cult, and about the problems that arise when the entire social fabric of your life comes unravelled. These people have the right to have a place on the web where they can openly talk about their concerns.

This forum has been in place for 2 years, in various incarnations, and has been providing a platform for ex-premies to post.

Jim has decided that contrary to his previous agreement to let this fight settle and allow the forum to be returned to those who want to use it for its intended purpose, he will instead do whatever he damn well wants and continue to wage his own personal wars here. That is not why I do this job for absolutely no pay. I do it for those who want to use it for the help that it provided me when I first found it.

Barney and Joey:
Drop it, or leave. I'm not going to put up with this shit any more.

I realize that this is not going to be a popular action on my part. I don't care. Each of you came into this forum because you had previously been involved in either Divine Light Mission or Elan Vital. You wanted support and a place to voice your feeling. You found that here. Many of you found friendships here that have grown stronger since you first began to post.

Everyone who posts here, or wants to post here, can and will do so out of choice. That choice exists because someone takes the time out of his/her personal life to see that this forum continues to exist. You've all just seen the toll that this job takes on a person when Barney resigned. Many of the decisions made by the person in the hot seat are very tough calls to make, and many of them are not openly supported by the people who post here.

Some of you may feel that you cannot support the decision behind this action. Katie and I fully understand that. But you must all understand that we have our own lives. We put a lot of time into maintaining this forum and site for those who use it and for those who have yet to find it. While we both value the friendships that we've made here, our main reason for continued involvement is to see that this forum continues to serve its intended purpose of being available for those who need to use it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 00:18:19 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Quick Thoughts
Message:
I missed a lot of the stuff in question, but I've had email correspondence with all the players in this group (including Katie and Brian). From talking to Katie and Brian, the down-to-earth tasks of maintaining an electronic support system for exes starts to ring true as more important than other abstract ideals as to what the forum can be.

They do the work and it smacks of a regular job. In fact, I shudder to think what a company would actually charge to do what they do. I think between the two of them it probably equals a difficult full time job, and it really may be more like two. Turning the forum into a more formal entity which actually pays some people to do this work would be a more defining moment than any kind of singular blocking or unblocking which takes place here, whoever is at the helm, so before we flip out over the current situation, I hope all the parties concerned can appreciate that making more work for the webmasters isn't the most helpful way of proceeding. I'm not trying to turn anyone against their ideals but but my post-cult experiences tell me that life is not as black and white as I sometimes think it is.

Having been off the forum for about three weeks and lurking for a week after, I am struck by the argumentative atmosphere and how much of a turnoff it is for me. People who know me know that I can hold my own. And the premies who have posted here are people who at times have certainly asked for a good argument, but even then it gets to be a bore, IMHO. The exes who post here clearly lean toward being down on Miragey. The argumentative tone which is set by arguing with premies shouldn't be permeating the forum discussions among exes. There is room for debate and its a good thing- one that Mirage discouraged and that we should encourage, but it doesn't mean the place should resemble a hostile food fight.

The years of cultist membership we are 'coming out' from, on this forum and in our lives, have robbed us of something. It's a real something, not an abstract loss which disappears when we decide to leave Mirage. There's no rational quick fix to the hurt and pain people suffer under Mirage. We face years of loss and years of not developing socially, intellectually, emotionally. We are all dogmatists without a dogma when we leave Mirage.

The extremism which we had siphoned into Mirage isn't going to be gone the second we leave. Our ability to accept others who have different beliefs and are at different stages awarenesses is critical to our ability to overcome the damage that Miragey has caused us.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 04:49:29 (EDT)
From: we are 'coming out' from
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Quick Thoughts ?measur of time
Message:
The extremism which we had siphoned into Mirage isn't going to be gone the second we leave. Our ability to accept others who have different beliefs and are at different stages awarenesses is critical to our ability to overcome the damage that Miragey has caused us.

Hmmmmmm, the above thoughts that YOU have and maybe you think every X-Premie/X-Lover/X-Deciple/whatever, also has or maybe 30% - 53.7% due, HMMMmmmmmm Respectfully leaveing aside your thoughts above or below in the 'Original'.

You have put foward a number of {GOod} questions about: What would you responce be to the word Church or somesuch type stuff.

Bye the way, hahaha, You do not have to answer but if you feel like it, please answer the question.

I would hope that you understand what I mean! hahaha
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 11:51:50 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: djrayovac@aol.com
To: Responsen to whoever u r
Subject: measure of time
Message:
I wish you would use quotes or arrows when you do quote me or quote people in general. I couldn't actually understand your question, but it didn't help that there was a glaring typo in the section you quoted, namely, that 'Our ability to accept others who have different beliefs and are at different stages [OR] awarenesses is critical to our ability to overcome the damage that Miragey has caused us.' is missing an 'OR' as noted.

You ask 'What would you responce be to the word Church or somesuch type stuff.' and I guess you're asking if I think that the people of the world at large have similar probs from going to churches.

This thread and my comments are related to our current situation on this forum. Whatever I think about the people involved and what they did, I would prefer a happy ending where all three exes are reasonably happy and want to participate on this forum within the bounds of what the webmaster requests of them in terms of demeanor. I'm hoping that people get a perspective on the situation where they don't decide it's worth leaving the forum over, but rather that it's a small problem worth resolving and rejoining.

Being ex-premies, we have a special situation. We're not from a church or something more mainstream and acceptable. We may not want people to know we were involved in with a guru and the forum may be one of the few places where we openly discuss this.

I hope you reread your posts next time around. It was really hard to read and I'm not sure I did get your question right. If it's worth posting, it's worth correcting.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 03:11:58 (EDT)
From: U. R.
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: measure of time
Message:
Responsen

Yup thats what you gave, a, 'Responsen'. Your quote.....;)

An answer would have been nice.

'Responsen to whoever u r' ???

'a glaring typo' ------------- ha ha ha, so sad your funny, not.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 04:07:50 (EDT)
From: Just Because
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Joey, Barney,For the sake of L
Message:
To make matters worse, Jim kept the battle going by demanding an explanation from Joey. In response to my warning post, Jim replied with 'Back off Brian'. The only reason that I didn't immediately block him after reading this was that Katie interceeded and arranged via email for him to call. I let him know then that his position was precarious, and he agreed to back off. He hasn't done so, and today after deleting a post by him which only served to further inflame the situation, I sent him email telling him very clearly that he would be blocked if he persisted. His response is posted above, and he is now blocked from posting on this forum.

This forum has a topic. Read the forum introduction if you have questions about that. Off-topic posts happen regularly, but we do not encourage them here. Fights break out, but we do not encourage them here either.

_____________________Separator_____________________________

Wow ---------, I must most as I can, sounds like baby talk, huh, hahahahaha, seriuosly, I identify with you 93.7 percent, but I as a sensitive sort, feel this idea come too me, which is sort of a Kondolini type thing or Maharaj Ji or what ever, but PLEASE let a magical LOVE WONDERFUL thing be done because YOU and US together have that sort of SOUL type thing, and so for {1} time you would let him come, I mean both of them, including Barney, haha, again you will give them { 1 } more time but this is it! Now that deal will include.......Being alowed ' 1 ' message, must be his 1st or 2nd POST to respond to any and or all or whatever/anything he can say, BUT after the responce has been alowed to be heard by WE THE PEOPLE and in this way you will also be being more like a Judge/a real Judge as in Civil LAW U.S.A., WELLLLLL thats it 1 time more chance like I said above.

And this is sort of a REAL LOVE THING ATTEMPT/try please, and thank you very much.

All I need is Love. {Just because}
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 05:34:50 (EDT)
From: Susannah
Email: None
To: GAMER
Subject: JERRY --- A GAME
Message:
Jerry,

Was it you who is into virtual games?

If it is, could you please snag these guys and take them to the land of EverQuest, Doom, Quake or where ever and see how well the pissing match goes in 3D;-)Just make sure Loreena Bobbit isn't around;-( Ouch.

Actually, that might solve this problem as they probably don't know how to move around laden with the necessary phasers, shields etc.

Love,
Susannah
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 05:41:59 (EDT)
From: Love,
Email: None
To: Susannah
Subject: JERRY --- A GAME
Message:
Actually, that might solve this problem as they probably don't know how to move around laden with the necessary phasers, shields etc.

---{100%}--- , YES , :)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:01:29 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Susannah
Subject: JERRY --- A GAME
Message:
Susannah,

I think it's Mary M who's into the virtual game thing, MOO I think they call it. I just play standalone strategy games like Heroes Of Might And Magic and Civilization.

But I think a deathmatch in Doom or Quake might be just the thing for Barney and Joey. Yup, it might do them both a world of good. And nobody gets hurt, either. They just have a lot of fun destroying each other in MUD land:)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:10:21 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Doom! Yeah!
Message:
Not inciting anything here, but...

I believe that with a Doom add-on you can design your own virtual physical scenarios. We've got the blueprint for Maharaji's Malibu Marble Palace. That would be the hot ticket - bring it back home to Father!

Oh, boy! I'm gonna have to upgrade my little shitbox just for that! Networked Doom via the Internet in the Marble Palace! Charge for admission and retire as millionaire. Have premies battle the marauding ex-premies and have that fat monster character in one of the early Star Wars movies be what's his name torturing Princess Leia, portrayed by Katie, of course.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:45:41 (EDT)
From: Wm
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Doom! Yeah!
Message:
jesus, use the quakeII or half-life engine, doom is for a shit box, even these two are light weights to stuff, whick I can't play, that are coming out today.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:56:55 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Wm
Subject: Sorry, not hip to gameworld
Message:
Wm,

Yes, (here I admit fallibility) I was wrong. I'm out of the loop on the games. I do have Doom. I doubt that Quake will run on a 486-33SX.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 20:04:48 (EDT)
From: Wm
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Sorry, not hip to gameworld
Message:
tried deathmatchs, no fun, them twelve year olds are fast.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 15:24:05 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Just Because
Subject: Whoever wrote this.....
Message:
Hey, I enjoyed reading it and I think you are pretty creative.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 14:21:32 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Request re Blocks
Message:
I think we need de-escalation here. So, Brian, I think you've made your point, whether others agree with it or not. It's been 12 hours, and I respectfully request that all blocks be removed under a general amnesty program. I don't believe anyone had ill intentions. This medium is rather harsh sometimes and has lots of limitations leading to lots of misunderstandings and there is still lots of residual fear from all the paranoia we internalized being in Maharaji's cult. So, things sometimes get messy here, but one thing I have seen over the past couple of years, they usually work themselves out.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 16:06:23 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: JW
Subject: Request re Blocks
Message:
I respectfully request that all blocks be removed under a general amnesty program.

I can't understand you asking that all blocks be removed unless you're under the impression that Barney and Joey are also blocked. That is not the case. There is nobody who is currently blocked who is unable to email Katie or me and assure us that they will no longer present a problem to the operation of this forum.

There are reasons for the blocks in place. Nobody would declare an amnesty and open prisons without at least going through the motions of asking the prisoners to promise to behave first.

I'm going to also respond here to your post above titled 'Of Self-Image and Reputation', and in order to explain more clearly I'll respond to your statements out of order.

If there is some 'behind the scenes' reason that Jim shouldn't have been doing that, well, I can see why there would be concern, but he shouldn't be penalized when is doesn't know what that information is.

I spoke to Jim on the phone and repeated that Katie and I were attempting to get to the bottom of this dispute. I told him that I had my own private reasons to doubt Barney's judgement, and to the extent that his judgement governs his actions, I was open to the possibility that Joey's claims weren't entirely groundless. I also told Jim that I didn't believe that Barney was a 'plant'. All I wanted was for Jim to stay the hell out of it and let me handle the situation. I came away from that phone call believing that he would comply.

Jim's continued proclamations that Joey is crazy only served to further inflame a bad situation. If he doesn't really believe Joey is crazy, then he is obviously baiting Joey for the pure fun of it. If he DOES believe Joey is crazy, then how is it responsible behavior to continue to publicly bait a crazy person?

If there is some behind the scenes information that Jim is not going to be trusted with, then OF COURSE he should be penalized for butting in and attempting to pressure people into divulging it publicly for his own personal satisfaction!! Especially when that was pointed out to him. I made it VERY clear to him that there were other factors involved than were visible on the forum. Would you want that I now splash those personal details all over the web just to explain to people why I'm now on the hotseat here? That's not going to happen.

Through his own repeated willingness to post private email on the forum and to share private email with others, Jim has clearly demonstrated that he is not someone to be included in the details of what is confided in confidence. I've expressed my frustration with his doing that in the past, as it undercut MY ability to trust him. His response was that he didn't care if he was out of the loop. That's fine, but he forfeits all rights to explanations from me in the process.

From what I gather, it's a pretty humiliating experience to be blocked.

I'm sure it is. It's a difficult situation to have to make that decision and to stand up to the heat that follows. Barney blocked Joey, and that should have been the last of it. But it wasn't.

With most of the people here fully supporting his action, he still tossed the site back at me afterwards. It was hard to have to make these decisions, and some people didn't like him. He has emailed me a stream of reasons why he was unwilling to continue - ALL OF THEM pointing the finger at someone else. Katie and I were accused of being the 'defacto webmasters' and relegating him to the little chores that had to be done. That is pure rubbish.

I wasn't asked if I would take this job back on, although simple common courtesy would require that first. I was enjoying NOT doing it and NOT having to make these sort of posts. Of the few times that I posted after 'retiring', I was always supportive of Barney's efforts. I responded to Stevei's protests that anonymizers shouldn't be blocked, and I said that the webmaster can and should block whoever he views as being disruptive to his/her ability to maintain an administerable forum.

I wasn't a fan of the block on Joey, but I voiced my own concerns to him in private email. I made no attempt to in any way undercut his authority or personal credibility.

I know that in the one area where you [Barney] might have done something wrong, which is debatable, you admitted it and apologized. That shows a lot of integrity and I would think the issue would be closed.

What is 'debatable' about undermining people's willingness to use this forum by posting webmaster's-eyes-only IP information on the internet? I have never pinpointed a poster's continent, let alone the building that they were posting from. Even those people who were being disruptive and had to be blocked. Scott never did that. D@vid never did that. Barny did that, JW.

This job isn't about making friends, being liked, or having anyone cheer for you. It's about safeguarding people's ability to access the information on this site, to use this forum, and to do both of those anonymously.

Barney has a real name. He has a place of residence. Perhaps he's right now terrified that I'm about to reveal that information in this post. He also has enjoyed the protected right to post here anonymously, to not have his name splashed around by those who know it, and to not have his OWN IP address posted on the internet. Do you think that 'might' be wrong of me to do simply because I can? Is it 'debatable'?

I have repeatly tried to persuade him via email to stop undercutting his own online credibility by offering justifications for what can clearly be seen as an act motivated purely by anger and frustration. What does the topic of his 'I CHEATED' outing of Joey's IP tell you? After my last email to him on this subject, he posted his 'Snapped: My Confession' post below where he continued to deny any wrong-doing. Read the small print.

Now he has suddenly slipped an apology into the middle of a sentence in a post above. But only after forcing me to publicly distance myself from his actions and to condemn them (and him) in order to reassure people that this is NOT forum policy. I didn't want to have to do that, and I resent his unwillingness to assume even that small responsibility.

As I told Jim in the my email to him warning him that he was about to be blocked:

Maybe I can't find anyone who can and will do this job, and maybe I can't avoid the squabbles that erupt on the forum. But I can and certainly will remove anyone who chooses to interfere with my being able to do this job. And to do it with a minimum of personal investment in both time and grief.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 18:50:04 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Request re Blocks
Message:
I can't understand you asking that all blocks be removed unless you're under the impression that Barney and Joey are also blocked.

I have no idea how many people are blocked. The only one I know for sure is Jim, and as I said, it makes me very uncomfortable and I would like to see it, and any others, ended as soon as possible. As I said, I think you made your point and I don't believe prolonging it serves any purpose. I thought a general amnesty would just allow everyone to save face and move forward and you can always re-block anyone who causes a problem. These people are not criminal, Brian. And people DO change, you know. And Jim has demonstrated his commitment to the forum, with money, time and a lot of courage, and I would think you would consider that, too.

From my perspective blocking REALLY infuriates people and makes matters worse. It appears to me, from just my viewpoint of reading the forum, it was Barney's blocking of Joey that REALLY set off the conflagration you are now dealing with. That's why Joey was at the Cafe posting under an assumed name, and all the rest. I don't think blocking Jim really solves anything, except really pissing him off.

I told him that I had my own private reasons to doubt Barney's judgement, and to the extent that his judgement governs his actions, I was open to the possibility that Joey's claims weren't entirely groundless.

So, now, are you, in addition to Joey, also suggesting publicly something negative about Barney but not saying what it is? Brian, this doesn't help. I mean this just fuels Barney's statements that people are accusing him of things without saying exactly what they are. He does, in the end, have a right to know what they are. I think that was Jim's point, and I must say I agree with him. Are you suggesting something about Barney besides the poor 'judgement' of posting that someone was in a cafe? I mean, if it's something you can't disclose, I think it's better not to even mention your 'own private reasons.'

I also told Jim that I didn't believe that Barney was a 'plant'.

Well, thank you for saying that. I don't think he is either. Well, that's at least one of Joey's allegations that Barney can now discard, even though he asked repeatedly for Joey to say why he thought that, but never got an answer.

All I wanted was for Jim to stay the hell out of it and let me handle the situation. I came away from that phone call believing that he would comply.

Since you have taken it upon yourself to handle the situation, were you, and are you still, going to publicly explain the veracity, or lack thereof, of what Joey has accused Barney of? Is that how you would handle the situation? I mean Barney was publicly attacked and he has the right to also get it straightened out, publicly. That was basically Jim's point.

Jim's continued proclamations that Joey is crazy only served to further inflame a bad situation. If he doesn't really believe Joey is crazy, then he is obviously baiting Joey for the pure fun of it. If he DOES believe Joey is crazy, then how is it responsible behavior to continue to publicly bait a crazy person?

I never saw Jim say Joey was crazy, and I would point out that a number of us, including me, have been called much worse and nobody blocked anyone. Actually, I think Jim said Joey was paranoid, and that he was exhibiting paranoid behavior, and, again, I agree. I don't think Jim was baiting Joey. I think he was trying to set him straight -- to help him in is own way. Don't laugh. He was basically saying 'hey man, get some help, you're being paranoid and not dealing in reality.' At the same time I think he, like me, felt for Barney drowning in the unrelenting, and unsubstantiated, attacks. That makes you crazy, Brian. It makes you paranoid. Barney has indicated his self-doubt as a result. That's really bad for a person and nobody deserves it.

I agree with you, though, it doesn't usually help if someone is paranoid to tell them they are. It just makes it worse. And either way, whether they are or not, it does piss them off. But being accused of being a pornographer, a plant, or some other, unstated, deceitful, behavior is pretty harmful too, and Barney also has rights. Those two things need to be balanced out.

No, I dont' agree with the way Jim approached this, I often don't agree with his approaches, but, again, I don't think he should be banned for defending Barney.

I made it VERY clear to him that there were other factors involved than were visible on the forum. Would you want that I now splash those personal details all over the web just to explain to people why I'm now on the hotseat here? That's not going to happen

I don't want you to disclose anything you don't want to. If Jim asks you to do so, you can say no. My point it you don't have to block him because you are sick of him asking. Moreover, it was my impression you blocked Jim for asking JOEY, not you, for information as to why he hates Barney's guts. Joey can also say no to this request and has so far, but I think Jim is justified in saying Barney has a right to hear it. You don't owe Jim or anyone any explanation as to why you don't disclose confidential information. I think you know that. But blocking is quite a different matter.

What is 'debatable' about undermining people's willingness to use this forum by posting webmaster's-eyes-only IP information on the internet? I have never pinpointed a poster's continent, let alone the building that they were posting from. Even those people who were being disruptive and had to be blocked. Scott never did that. D@vid never did that. Barny did that, JW.

Yeah, he did mention the cafe, but I never saw that he posted the IP. Yes, he did mention the cafe and the city, and he resigned as webmaster. I don't agree with it either, but he apologized, he resigned, an it's over. Maybe the apology isn't what you expected, but I'm sure Barney would make it more explicit.

And it isn't Barney you are blocking for some egregious behavior, it's Jim and he didn't expose anyones' IP. The reason it's debatable is two-fold. First, Barney blocked Joey and then Joey reappeared under an assumed name from another location, attacking Barney. Barney exposed it. Not the greatest style, but Joey isn't blameless either. Second, it's no harm no foul because Joey has disclosed his name, address, phone number etc., etc., everything but his blood type, on this forum, so the fact that people know he was at a cafe posting one afternoon is kind of de minimus harm, wouldn't you say? I still don't agree with ever revealing that information and I agree with you that it shouldn't ever be done, but there are other circumstances here that should be considered and it should be put into perspective.

I have repeatly tried to persuade him via email to stop undercutting his own online credibility by offering justifications for what can clearly be seen as an act motivated purely by anger and frustration. What does the topic of his 'I CHEATED' outing of Joey's IP tell you? After my last email to him on this subject, he posted his 'Snapped: My Confession' post below where he continued to deny any wrong-doing. Read the small print.

Okay, okay. It apparently was out of anger and frustration. People are fallable and make bad choices. We all have. As I said, it's a done deal and he DID apologize and he DID resign. The forum is in your competent hands now and it won't happen again.

I don't think Barney or anyone minds you saying it was improper conduct, and I think everyone is reassured with your re-stating your respect for anonymity. If this incident helps people feel more secure, that is one positive result.

But I would ask you again to unblock Jim. I think all the points, above, that you make have been noted and emphasized by Jim's enforced exile.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:05:05 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Request re Blocks
Message:
Well said and AMEN.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 16:06:45 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Brian
Message:
Thank you for deleteing the Rob post that followed the Marianne
post up top.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 16:09:03 (EDT)
From: KB
Email: None
To: KB
Subject: My error
Message:
I got mixed.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:23:07 (EDT)
From: I hear you
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Request re Blocks
Message:
I can't understand you asking that all blocks be removed unless you're under the impression that Barney and Joey are also blocked. That is not the case. There is nobody who is currently blocked who is unable to email Katie or me and assure us that they will no longer present a problem to the operation of this forum.

O' ----- OK, thank you for this updated information.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:07:55 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: BRIAN: Another suggestion
Message:
I've been reading watching all these arguments between Joe, Barney, Jim, the blocking/un-blocking stuff etc.

I can understand why some people want to argue and fight, this is their prerogative after all. And I can also understand how they're feeling home here, and that they should also be allowed to seriously argue here. I wouldn't like to be banned.

But I also understand Brian & Katie's point. They have to maintain this Forum as a place where ex-es and premies can come and discuss their problems with m & k. And there should be also a way to deal with that kind of personal fights and arguments that's pissing lots of people. I'm particularly concerned, because this is also one situation that can happen on the French Forum, and I don't want to spend all this energy handling that sort of situation.

My idea is that there should be a simple way to have these discussions, virtual fights and flaiming going on in another place without blocking people. And without having these endless discussions on those cases, like we now have. We have to find a solution for now, and for the future, that will satisfy everybody.

I have an idea (Brian will have some homework):

Why not having a second Forum, where the subject would really be Anything and Everything, and keep that one with a stronger policy.
And then, if that sort of personal issues arises, or whatever disrupting issue raise up (pissed premies, etc), that would be the webmaster's prerogative to simply move that thread from here to the Anything and Everything Forum, keeping this Forum here a bit more focused on its purpose.

Maybe the participants will be a bit pissed to be 'removed' from this Forum, but there will be NO BLOCKING involved, and our purpose will be accomplished. Now if the situation is getting worse, and if people want to be really disruptive here, the first step could be to simply block them on this Forum here, and allow them on the other one.

What do you think?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:59:42 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Screaming at Anything Goes
Message:
Not a bad idea.

Actually, we've been invited by the gracious Sir David to use the Anything Goes forum and that's where all the yelling and screaming is going on now.

This little thing might be coming to an end soon. So, hurry on over and join the fray. Nah, don't waste your time. Actually everything might be ok. There's always a bright side to everything.

Don't know what the natives at Anything Goes think about this. Right now they are out gathering lots of firewood and starting fires under these huge black caldrons they have out in the back.

J-M, I hope you don't ride on cable cars in Europe. They either have problems avoiding airplanes or some other problems (black humor for Canada Day still don't know why we didn't march on up there and take 'em over when we had the chance.)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 06:11:01 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, Barney & Joey
Message:
You can continue talking about all this on The ANYTHING GOES forum and you won't be blocked there. Also, of course, anyone else can put their spoke in.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 10:43:11 (EDT)
From: Teacher
Email: None
To: Naughty children
Subject: Jim, Barney & Joey
Message:
Its easy to see why you guys are so anti premies,no premies I know would want to spend five minutes with such agressive and self opinionated ego maniacs.
Your minds are so inflated there's no space for anything remotely like openess, clarity or understanding.
I'm very glad you're all stuck in the '70's, I'd hate to meet you in the present.
T
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 10:55:33 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Teacher
Subject: Teacher
Message:
'Its easy to see why you guys are so anti premies,no premies I know would want to spend five minutes with such agressive and self opinionated ego maniacs.'

Well this is nothing compared tio the backstabbing that goes on in your teacher's court. I can assure that this place is very tame.

'Your minds are so inflated there's no space for anything remotely like openess, clarity or understanding'

Now there's an original statement.....I can't get over how original premies are when they do speak.

Jethro

PS Is your name 'Teacher' or is it a completely randomly chosen name?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 14:16:13 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Teacher
Subject: Flattery dear Teacher, ah
Message:
Hey Mr Teacher, you say we're aggressive and self opinionated ego maniacs. Ah that's music to my ears but listen bro, flattery won't get you everywhere, but it IS nice.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 14:25:22 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Teacher
Subject: Jim, Barney & Joey
Message:
Your minds are so inflated there's no space for anything remotely like openess, clarity or understanding.

Oh, god, so true. I understand we are mending our ways, though. The ex-premie forum has developed a new program in which we will never communicate with each other (think of the disagreements that will prevent) and simply sit and mindlessly watch videos of a little, greasy, fat guy pontificating. So much cleaner and nicer, than having to deal with real people, right?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 14:35:37 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Teacher
Subject: Jim, Barney & Joey
Message:
Yes, teacher, these ex-premies are SO closed and bitter. And having that understanding is unknown to them. They are not gifted with that gift of that experience, which is that gift of that love and that joy, that peace which is in that place and can only be experienced by that grace. If they were having that understanding and that experience, they would be like premies, and never, ever, be competitive, fight, be frustrated or lack contentment or be in their minds. The world of premies who are having that experience of that love from that grace of the Master and always open and loving, and are always in that place of clarity and that understanding and blissful gratitude to Maharaji for showing us that love.

I mean, if premies were ever allowed to actually discuss things on Maharaji's websites, there would be just that total blissful contentment and that love and that experience being manifested. I mean, the time those two premies on Harlan's site got into a big argument about whether Maharaji was god or not, at which point that site disappeared, was just a fluke and an aberration of the divine experience of that understanding.

Remember, without the grace of the master, we are maggot-infested entrails of stinking, rotting carcuses of dead goats.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 14:51:45 (EDT)
From: A Premie
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Jim, Barney & Joey
Message:
Pauline, you've really inspired me. I'm just gonna go and cut my head off for Maharaji now, OK.

But seriously, these losers never will know, will they. Although most of them followed Maharaji and lived in ashrams and gave their lives to him lock, stock and barrel; they never once opened up to that love, that joy. No, they were complete and utter failures and Maharaji, being the perfect teacher and saviour, should just squash them beneath his foot. They are scum of the first order, the Judases and devils of our time.

They failed where Maharaji has succeeded. They tried for years to understand his simple message and yet they never once got the message. Who is the failure? Not Maharaji the saviour but those who he could not save.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:22:44 (EDT)
From: Satsang Sam
Email: None
To: A Premie
Subject: Jim, Barney & Joey
Message:
That's right my dear friends, when one is far from that wonderful grace, one cannot keep a sane mind. We are so lucky that we have the gift, the devotion and the wallet to express our gatitude, for the Master is loving and wise and his smiles are like rubies. He keeps me smiling and at peace. So smile! Smile everyone! Welcome and enjoy your stay at Fantasy Island!
'The plaaane! The plaaaane!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 22:14:21 (EDT)
From: An Assole
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Not required
Message:
In all the Master's words that I have heard him say. He did not say that you need to partake in this forum.

If you are sincere in your words ,then what you are saying is happening.

But your duty is not required here, for Maharaji in any way shape or form.

Neither are any other practicing knowledge premies required to post here.

sincerely

aah
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 02:43:26 (EDT)
From: 70's
Email: None
To: twit
Subject: Naughty children
Message:
I know would want to spend -
like openess, clarity -
I'm very glad you're all stuck -
I'd hate -

t

Always 1. {I know would want?} - / / teacher? (no); twit (yes).
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 05:04:15 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: Teacher
Subject: Premies
Message:
Hi Teacher,

You say no premies you know would want to spend five minutes with one of us heretics over here.

Well, most of my closest friends are premies, my wife is a premie, and I'm a freaked out, in my mind, Ex- and we all get on fine.

If ever the topic of Maharaji comes up, they quickly change the subject, wincing painfully as my barbed observations uncover the cracks in the soggy cardboard wall of this wackly little cult we all got mixed up in when we were young.

Anth the Teacher
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 07:25:11 (EDT)
From: Whatever
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Premies
Message:
If ever the topic of Maharaji comes up, they quickly change the subject, wincing painfully as my barbed observations uncover the cracks in the soggy cardboard wall of this wackly little cult we all got mixed up in when we were young.

Anth the Teacher

______________________________________________

It gets me to thinking, Hmmm, I 'think' that about 75% of all those that became 'Premies' , circa 1987 are now not considerd to be 'Premies'.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 20:24:12 (EDT)
From: Della
Email: None
To: Jim & JW
Subject: Cut and Dry!
Message:
Jim & JW,

If it's a complete self annihilation of one of the individuals involved in this mess, then maybe you just might get it.

Let me emphatically add that there would not be one long onerous debate about M causing it.

You're two nosy gossipy boys.

d
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 20:36:12 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Della
Subject: What Are You Talking About?
Message:
Della, what the hell are you talking about?

Care to be a little less cryptic and just tell us what you mean?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 20:36:35 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: Murky and Dark
To: Della
Subject: Cut and Dry!
Message:
Jim & JW,

If it's a complete self annihilation of one of the individuals involved in this mess, then maybe you just might get it.

Let me emphatically add that there would not be one long onerous debate about M causing it.

You're two nosy gossipy boys.

d

Della, I didn't understand your post. Could you please explain it?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 20:38:51 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: JW! Look!
Message:
We agree on something! There's hope for the world!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 21:18:25 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david.studio57@btinternet.com
To: Everyone
Subject: You might like to comment
Message:
I received this following email the other day, probably in response to my The truth about Maharaji website. I did reply to it and also asked him if he minded me putting his email on this forum but he didn't reply, so here it is. You may like to comment.

Hi! I received Knowledge in 1973.

I think you and the loosers of ex-premie.org are just a bunch of cowards who attack Maharaji without using your one names, hidden behind the html code. All what you post here is just the same gossip and bullshit that is being
around from years.

If you ever been disclosed of the inner experience that is available through the practice of the technics, why don't you take benefit from that, instead of loosing your time spreading so much hate around? Who do you think you are
trying to prevent 'poor and misguided' people from falling in a trap? You are the one who is trapped.

If you take a good look at it, you might be doing the exact thing you accuse Maharaji to do: spreading confusion and fear, playing God, thinking you are the owner of truth, revealing the technics without being entitled to do so,
misguiding innocent people who have the right of a fair chance making there one experience, betraying the given word, like when you promised not to reveal the technics, etc.

I feel sory for you.
Gustavo Gauvry
cielito@interprov.com
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 06:39:07 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: All
Subject: More from Gustavo
Message:
Here's more from Gustavo:

Dear David,

I do not want to start a big discussion about this because it is a matter of feelings and not argument. If you don't feel anything, is impossible for us to agree. It is like talking about water, if you are thirsty and you drink it you understand it's value, if not, what is it? H2O? You may analize and discover that water has many negative aspects too; you could drown in it, water causes flods and heavy rains, snow, accidents, that can ruin many people lives.

I mean, from my experience after so many years, the feeling that I get when I sit and practice is good for me. It is satisfying, it is growing, it gives me clarity. I don't know if it is meditation, or cult, if you can get in any street in Delhi; I don't really care. I got it through Maharaji, and I thank him for it. When I listen to his speeches, most of the times I feel clarity and inspiration. That is what I do care. I don't know and it doesn't matter to me; never did, if I like him personally or not. I mean, how he looks, or dresses, or what he does in his personal life. It is not my business and I am not very interested in those aspects. I respect him as the teacher who taught me the technics and gives me good advice on how to practice them.

I also have a personal life, I have a family, a career, friends, hobbys, many deffects and very few virtues. Maharaji never told me anything about it. Never congratulated me or accused me. In this 25 years I had periods of going to many events, or not going to any event. Doors were always open. For what I know at the knowledge session all he or the instructor asks for are three things or 'vows': Give Knowledge a fair chance. Keep in touch. Do not reveal the technics.

I think such a request is quite logic and is not a heavy burden. If that represents a cult for you, what can I say? Everybody is free to feel or not.

What I don't understand is what moves you to publish all that garbage, and gossip and suppositions and prejudice, and 'some one told me' at the Internet. Is it just hate, frustration? Some of the accusations are eaven hilarious. Like saying that the 'millonaire Guru has a great time flying his own jet while the poor premis suffer...' Since he started flying his own airplane he spent around 1700 hs, he turned the world round 74 times; is like going too the Moon and returning 4 times. All at the tiny cockpit of a
little plane to do what: to spend a couple of nights at a hotel room. If that is the lifestyle of a millonaire I rather stay poor!

I imagen that many people got to receive knowledge whith great expectations, or very poorly prepared and then got really frustrated. But I don't think you hurt Maharaji with this sites, if that is what you are trying too accomplish; Maharaji will go on and always will find someone who is
interested. You hurt the very people you are trying to prevent from beeing hurt. Let them take their chance without beeing filtered by your own experience, or lack of experience.

If you want to put the first email at your site, do so. You can put this one as well if you want. But this will be my last contact with you. I think I made my point as you made yours, and it is not a subject that I feel like go on discussing.

Thank you. Best wishes.

At 09:22 30/06/1999 +0100, you wrote:
'Dear Gustavo,

Regarding your email; I for one don't hide behind false names and it is well known who I am. The trap is the cult. For instance, if a person doesn't like Maharaji and his methods they are 'out in the cold' so to speak and knowledge would be impossible for them.

The meditation techniques are neutral and are widely known by people who have investigated meditation, anyway. They are not a secret and Maharaji is perpretrating a myth by claiming that they are his.

I would like to put your email on the ex-premie forum where perhaps other
people would like to comment. If you don't want me to do this then please
email me today and I won't.

Yours sincerely,

David Simpkiss.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 10:31:13 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: like talking about lobotomy
Message:
It is like talking about water, if you are thirsty and you drink it you understand it's value, if not, what is it? H2O? You may analize and discover that water has many negative aspects too; you could drown in it, water causes flods and heavy rains, snow, accidents, that can ruin many people lives.

What about lobotomy, dear Gustavo? You may analize and discover that Lobotomy has many negative aspects too...

Luckily you may recover from that one, one day I hope...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 10:55:51 (EDT)
From: Teacher
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: No Dave
Message:
Dave Simpkiss writes:

'The meditation techniques are neutral and are widely known by people who have investigated meditation, anyway.'

Sure Dave, where did you learn them?

Dave goes on to say:
'They are not a secret and Maharaji is perpretrating a myth by claiming that they are his.'

No Dave, he doesn't claim the techniques are a secret or are his, he does ask (before teaching people) that they promise that they won't reveal the techniques to others. That fact that you broke your promise says heaps about you and it is no suprise that you are confused about this simple fact.
T
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 12:11:09 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Teacher
Subject: More nonsense, I'd say
Message:
That's bullshit. Actually I never promised to not reveal any meditation techniques. This PROMISE is a recent thing. When I received k we were just told not to reveal the techniques by people in DLM. There was no promise made in the knowledge session. That's a fact.

If you think that meditating on breath with or without a mantra, is something like a special technique which only Maharaji reveals, you're off your trolley mate. The same with all the other techniques.

Maharaji doesn't even teach the nectar (kechari mudra) technique properly like SOME of the old mahatmas used to. Light techniques without poking your eyes, is as old as the hills and so is music.

Breath meditation is taught on the radio and TV in Britain. Just the breath with no Hindu mantra added. Are you saying Maharaji owns our breath? This is clearly nonsense.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 13:16:44 (EDT)
From: Curly
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: On the techniques
Message:
A friend of mine was in town last week with his girlfriend who turned out to be a yoga instructor. She had never heard of M but when I mentioned the light and music technique, she she referred to them as common 'sense deprivation techniques'. She mentioned that 'so hom', as she called it, was a solar/lunar thing (it's greek to me), and the nectar was included in a whole bunch 'purification techniques' which also include inserting string up your nose and pulling it out of your mouth (yeech!).
Her comment of the sense deprivation techniques was that one should learn other basic yoga techniques before trying them out because they can have negative effects. She concluded that M was a bit irresponsible for teaching these techniques to people without at least some basic yoga expertise.
Yours truly,
Curly
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 19:42:30 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Teacher
Subject: No, Teacher
Message:
No Dave, he doesn't claim the techniques are a secret or are his, he does ask (before teaching people) that they promise that they won't reveal the techniques to others.

Why? What good reason could he have for asking us to do this?

It's so stupid. Four lousy meditation techniques surrounded by a shitload of hype. Sometimes it drives me batty the amount of hoopla this trip is soaked in.

Unbelievable. Maddenning.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 20:24:40 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: No, Teacher
Message:
>It's so stupid. Four lousy meditation techniques surrounded by a shitload of hype. Sometimes it drives me batty the amount of hoopla this trip is soaked in.

Kinda like tennis.
Just a ball, racket, net and an area to keep the ball in.
Plenty of well known techniques for how to do it well.
So why is there Wimbeldon? And why the heck do the top players pay those people called coaches?

CD
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 20:44:00 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: No, Teacher
Message:
Your comparison to tennis is, at best, tenuous. Meditation is a personal act, it requires sitting alone. Once you are taught the technique, you're on your own. Athletic skills require repetive practise and a lot of coaching. Really there is no comparison, but I admire you dogged defense of the divine fraud. You're a victim too, and we should all keep that in prospective when dealing with pwk's.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Thurs, Jul 01, 1999 at 23:50:36 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Teaching
Message:
>Meditation is a personal act, it requires sitting alone

A good teacher must inspire an ability in the student.

>You're a victim too

Now, I know you are joking!

I will have a look at the TV broadcast from Manchester. I might even learn something. I enjoy a good story.

When I consider the books in my library I am always amazed by how much 'stuff' there is. And in the midst of all the 'stuff' we have a life to enjoy and share with others.

Be your best,
CD
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 04:19:49 (EDT)
From: Inner Game of Tennis
Email: None
To: You know who
Subject: A game
Message:
Inner Game of Tennis - {The Book}/Premie B.S..

And golf is just like swimming. ?????????????????

Do you want to talk? 'For real' ?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 16:20:47 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: whoever
Subject: Inner game of Golf
Message:
My husband swears by this book I got him for his birthday. It has a dedication to M in the front of it.

I would say his game was mediocre but I'm not going to tell him!

Love,

Liz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 19:39:07 (EDT)
From: A game
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Inner game of Golf
Message:
My husband swears by this book I got him for his birthday. It has a dedication to M in the front of it.
I would say his game was mediocre but I'm not going to tell him!

Love,

Liz

___________

Liz, the guy who did the book, {a premie} lived in Malibu near you know who, BIG TIME supporter, Almost went CRAZZY, {started to have doubts about Maharaj Ji}, at that time, Raja Ji spent much time with him at this guys home, {Did not want an incident to take place}, I think he may have done another book, (skiing), like it as well, with the same sort of thinking.

He was a strange one.

I hope your ability to communicate with your husband improves.

Many stories at that place........
Return to Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 06:25:50 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: No, Teacher
Message:
Okay, CD. Let's pretend that M is a tennis coach and you're the player. Now, you're on the court, practicing every day (remember, we're just pretending here). When was the last time M came out to watch you to tell you what you were doing right or wrong? What does he know about your approach on the net, how you play the baseline, your backhand, your serve? What does he know about any of these things? He doesn't know squat.

Maharaji has no idea how, or even IF, you're meditating. He just fills your head with a lot of ideas on what you should be experiencing when you do. You know, that peace, that joy, that understanding, and of course, LIFE!

Your analogy to a tennis coach doesn't wash. Try again.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index