Forum IV: The Ex-Premie Forum
Archive: 1
From: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 To: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 Page: 4 Of: 5


Ash Mackrell -:- Arse -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 19:10:08 (EDT)
__ Q -:- Re: Arse -:- Tues, Aug 31, 1999 at 15:20:07 (EDT)
__ Marianne -:- Well said, Ash -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 16:35:29 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Fund Raising -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 06:27:19 (EDT)
__ URL -:- Re: Arse -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 20:26:22 (EDT)
__ __ Jez -:- Re: Arse -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 17:43:40 (EDT)
__ __ Anon -:- Re: Arse -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 16:55:42 (EDT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Re: Arse -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 07:57:32 (EDT)
__ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Arse -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 04:53:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- A Bedtime Story for Catweasel -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 06:53:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- It was only a dream. -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 14:58:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Re: It was only a dream. -:- Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 11:00:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Gerry. Help. He's after me again. -:- Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 14:13:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Re: Gerry. Help. He's after me again. -:- Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 21:18:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Monmat, Moi?. -:- Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 06:10:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Repent or face the wall of Darkness -:- Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 07:12:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Catwesel -:- Repent or face the wall of Darkness -:- Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 07:11:27 (EDT)
__ __ Ash -:- Re: Arse -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 21:01:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ URL -:- Re: Arse -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 15:14:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Arse -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 16:45:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: Arse -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 17:34:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: Arse -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 17:41:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- URL--Ersatz Lawyer -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 17:58:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: URL--Ersatz Lawyer -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 18:29:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Party Line -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 07:03:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Oh, waiter? -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 21:11:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Sorry sir... -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 07:08:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Waiter -:- Re: Oh, waiter? -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 21:43:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Party Line -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 18:42:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- See the Premies Run -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 07:16:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: Party Line -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 21:28:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ astounded watcher -:- Re: Party Line -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 21:46:21 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Do you accept Ash on his own terms? -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 20:41:24 (EDT)
__ LdM -:- Re: Arse -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 19:42:46 (EDT)
__ __ CdM -:- Re: Arse -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 22:11:03 (EDT)

CdM -:- Holi Bongo -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 17:10:44 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Hey Charlie! -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 07:57:48 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- How far did it go? -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 23:38:13 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- The Power of Satsang -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 08:05:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: The Power of Satsang -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 08:08:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- To Sir D -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 11:49:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- That fucking sucks -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 11:33:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- ET suits & Evian? -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 09:13:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: ET suits & Evian? -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 09:20:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Guru Crap -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 09:32:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- More Useful Saints -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 12:00:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Sorry Katie -:- Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 06:34:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: More Useful Saints -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 12:32:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- St Jude -:- Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 06:37:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Re: More Useful Saints -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 13:47:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- The Power of Latvian Black Balzams -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 08:51:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Are all you Latvians such braggarts? -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 11:38:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: Are all you Latvians such braggarts? -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 18:56:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- It's not English John. -:- Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 06:45:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hint: it's got to do with 'ME' -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 21:12:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: Hint: it's got to do with 'ME' -:- Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 19:41:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- I finally got it -:- Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 21:59:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Black Balzams healing powers -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 09:26:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Re: Black Balzams healing powers -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 11:54:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: Black Balzams healing powers -:- Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 04:19:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- PS to JHB re LOTU -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 13:51:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Hey, you, girlfriend! -:- Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 17:26:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: Hey, you, girlfriend! -:- Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 04:13:50 (EDT)
__ Robyn -:- Re: Holi Bongo -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 18:38:05 (EDT)
__ __ CdM -:- Re: Holi Bongo -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 21:50:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- To be continued... -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 22:09:17 (EDT)

LdM -:- A wee bit of a journey -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 16:04:36 (EDT)
__ Gregg -:- Re: A wee bit of a journey -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 22:57:47 (EDT)
__ Robyn -:- Re: A wee bit of a journey -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 18:55:16 (EDT)
__ VP -:- Re: A wee bit of a journey -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 17:14:15 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Bravo Lee! -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 16:17:38 (EDT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Mucho cyber-applause! -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 18:42:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- SF earthquake -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 19:01:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: SF earthquake -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 19:05:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: SF earthquake -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 20:09:28 (EDT)

Ben Lurking -:- Vertical Markets -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 15:39:51 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Divine Economics -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 16:24:02 (EDT)
__ __ barney -:- Inifinite pool of slave-workers and ushers -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 16:31:24 (EDT)

Jim -:- Wait 'til they try darshan -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 11:21:47 (EDT)
__ nigel - probably quoted verbatim -:- from the Maharishi himself (nt) -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 17:33:16 (EDT)

Nigel -:- The eclipse: a premie predicts !! -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 09:40:23 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Re: The eclipse: a premie predicts !! -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 15:59:23 (EDT)
__ __ Roger E. Drek -:- To: Sir D - did you get my email? IMPORTANT -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 16:26:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: To: Sir D - did you get my email? IMPORTANT -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 20:35:28 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- Re: The eclipse: a premie predicts !! -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 09:47:38 (EDT)

AJW -:- My Magnificent Myth Making Mouth -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 09:17:34 (EDT)
__ nigel -:- Anth, you bastard! -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 20:20:32 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- Trust me Nigel. -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 05:33:40 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Hey, that's great. Can I have one? -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 10:46:34 (EDT)
__ __ Robyn -:- Re: Hey, that's great. Can I have one? -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 15:52:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Everybody wants an Angel. -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 16:07:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Everybody wants an Angel. -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 18:49:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Angels on Broadway -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 06:39:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Angels on Broadway -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 18:48:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Ahhh Robyn -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 05:35:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Ahhh Robyn -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 06:12:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Re: Er Hum.. Robyn -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 06:21:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Er Hum.. Robyn -:- Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 09:28:56 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- Not necessary Jim -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 11:38:29 (EDT)
__ __ VP -:- Re: Motor Mouth, the true Confessions thereof!!!! -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 10:50:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ VP -:- Damage? How? -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 08:11:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Re: Damage? How? -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 10:04:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Re: Damage? How? -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 20:48:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Cat, apology no.2 please. -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 06:57:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- That's Right VP -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 11:35:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Stick around Cat. -:- Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 07:09:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Thanks, Anth -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 19:01:15 (EDT)

MRH -:- Soul rush -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 09:14:26 (EDT)
__ Marianne -:- Re: Soul rush -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 15:02:22 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Yes: Soul Crush (nt) -:- Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 10:52:46 (EDT)


Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 19:10:08 (EDT)
From: Ash Mackrell
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Arse
Message:
I am in the 'fortunate' position of having never been a member of the Maharaji sect/persuasion. However, I have been surrounded by premmies since my teens, e.g. sisters, their friends etc at times. After all these years, my sister has just renounced the bastard. i say this, because at a particularly vulnerable time in her life - confusion, leaving home, going to uni, it appears that she gave away her grant cheque to Maharaji. I am not writing to give offence, but surely ANY organisation that encourages ANYONE to forgo their chance to learn ...knowledge is power, huh? ... must fear truth?
Is it not the case that questioning is actively discouraged amongst premmies? 'You'll never experience knowledge with that attitude'etc
ARSE
Can't anyone spot the obvious techniques for social control? - Saddam, hitler etc etc.
They ALL controlled the media. For THEIR OWN PURPOSES. Are they really controlling information for your benefit? ARSE
And besides, who could believe that the fat Polynesian is God? (my little joke)
And lets face it ... would God really want all your money?

I think some of that nonsense is unforgiveable.
And please, if any premmies reply to this, please address the point, and please avoid meaningless dogma. There's a challenge!
Love is all around, and I don't need to give away my house or my relationships to prove it.
Good luck everyone.
And now for the Spanish Inquisition ...!

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Date: Tues, Aug 31, 1999 at 15:20:07 (EDT)
From: Q
Email: None
To: Ash Mackrell
Subject: Re: Arse
Message:
There are actually 2 points: 1. that M may abuse his power & 2. that M has power. If M did not have a certain charisma M, would have neither premies to love him nor exes to loathe him. Question: Is any part of that power/ability/what-have-you valid &/or useful? This forum touches upon that issue, in oblique ways, while obviously trying to shout the contrary. (N'est-ce pas, g?) Once upon a time, there was something in that bottle that was/is desirable, eh, monkies? (Even if it wasn't worth having a bottle stuck on one's hand. If monkies were a little brighter...)
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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 16:35:29 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Ash Mackrell
Subject: Well said, Ash
Message:
Best insight of all: 'Let's face it ... would God really want all your money?'

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 06:27:19 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: Ash Mackrell
Subject: Fund Raising
Message:
Hi Ash,

In the early 70s, Maharaji was saying he was going to establish peace on earth, and that he had come with more power than ever before. We all fell for it.

Trouble was, he didn't establish peace on Earth, and by the late 70s the balloon was deflating. The organisation went through lots of crazy phases- humanitarianism, doing good works, stating lots of businesses etc. All fizzled out.

What's remained is a Guru with very expensive tastes. He also has no idea of the value of money. He asks. The premies give.

URL's revisionist statement is pure bullshit and he knows it. Maharaji spends it faster than the premies give it. When the Lord wants money for his latest private jet, new Merc, or $15,000,000 extension on his tacky mansion on the3 hill, the premies jump.

I remember about 5 or 6 years ago going for a drink with the then head of Elan Vital in the UK. It was a time when premies were getting hit very intensely for money. (This happens when Maharaji wants something expensive- fund raisers are sent on tours, co-ordinators are called up and told to get out there and get the money rolling in etc)

I told him that the premies were getting sick of constantly being hit for cash when they were broke. He confessed, 'Such and such head honcho (I think at the time it was Detmers) calls me and says, 'Maharaji needs X thousand dollars now.'', he gave me an understanding smile and said, 'What can I do?'

If he doesn't jump when the whip cracks, there's a line of devotees behind him waiting to jump into his job.

There is always immense pressure for money in Elan Vital. Rich premies are given special attention and treatment. I've been to a meeting of well heeled premies where Maharaji himself sat there and appealed for money.

The removal of your sister's grant cheque is be no means unusual. I remember, when my wife and I were in the Ashram, there was a particularly intense fundraising session, where my wife was asked to hand over our wedding ring. Being a surrendered Ashram premie, she did of course. (When we left the ashram, we asked the secretary Angus, for money to buy another one. And to his credit, he gave it to us.)

A couple of years ago, after a long absence, I went to a local video on a Saturday night. On the following Sunday morning I received a phone call from my local 'rep' saying he'd been pleased to see me at the program, and would I like to get involved further, maybe some involvement in the way of financial support.

Did you know if you pay a certain amount of money regularly you can buy a good seat at the programmes?

The whole trip sucks.

URL has blind faith in his master. That's why he can't see what is obvious to the rest of the world.

Keep on truckin'

Anth the Breadhead.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 20:26:22 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Ash Mackrell
Subject: Re: Arse
Message:
Ash

In the seventies (I'm assuming your sister got involved then) there WAS a hysteria around demonstrating one's dedication. This 'inspired' people to do many things we would never think of doing today. I mean, during that era we thought the world was going to end next month. Where did this hysteria come from? My answer to that would be the naive interpretation of followers, of Maharaji's own words. His words were very strong back then. He came fresh from India. His words are still strong when he goes to India. He's changed his tone in the west over the years and I believe wouldn't support such hysteria today.

I say this last statement because of my own experience.Some time back I was given a choice to do something for him (which I viewed as an opportunity) or complete my schooling. I pondered for days about it and couldn't come to a conclusion. An assistant of his called me to ask what I was going to do, and I conveyed my confusion. He said he'd get back to me. A half hour later after talking to Maharaji he called me back and suggested that I should complete my schooling, and I would be given another opportunity. So that is what I did, with pleasure.

One thing I can say about being in an environment of hysteria, is it challenges your convictions and belief in yourself. It certainly would have been more of a challenge for premies in the seventies than it is today.

Hope this helps.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 17:43:40 (EDT)
From: Jez
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Arse
Message:
Url, what gets me is your inaccurate assumption about the 70's. It's a commendable projection of your own flowery experience. At least you are honest in your mind-lessness.

You are so caught up in your 'pleasure' to listen to Ash for even one second.

Let me simplify this for you.

Your experience is not the issue here. Can you not hear the plight of Ash's sister? That's the issue.

And do you think that her mistake is an isolated case, that you could find excuses and explainations for?

Do you want to hear about a premie friend of mine who has eaten her way through her boyfriend's bank account (yes, and he's a banker too) by investing in yet another failed 'give to guru M business?' (or whatever it is they call them)

Does M/premies have no responsibility for this whatsoever?

Ash asked for direct answers. Are you capable?

It's not the seventies, you prat. This degradation is a timeless experience, remember?

Jez the I really have an inkling he's not going to give any reasonable answers but maybe I shouldn't have thrown too many questions at him all in one go, poor guy

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 16:55:42 (EDT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Arse
Message:
In the seventies there WAS a hysteria around demonstrating one's dedication. This 'inspired' people to do many things we would never think of doing today. Where did this hysteria come from? My answer to that would be the naive interpretation of followers, of Maharaji's own words. His words were very strong back then.

Yes, his words were strong and quite clear enough not to be misinterpreted en masse.
Ash had a good point. Maharaji did ask for complete dedication and made sure that this message came clearly down the line to us premies. We obeyed. Full stop.
I wonder if URL was paying attention back then..it would seem not.
Your suggestion that premie hysteria was more responsible is inaccurate.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 07:57:32 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Arse
Message:
Where did this hysteria come from? My answer to that would be the naive interpretation of followers, of Maharaji's own words.

URL, do you remember the press conference Maharaji held at Millenium '73 when he asked the press to help him establish peace in the world? He really thought they were going to stop the presses and splash it across the front page: THE SAVIOR IS HERE!!! LET'S ALL JOIN IN FOR PEACE!!! Where did the hysteria come from? It came from everybody involved, including Maharaji. Stop being such a revisionist and start getting honest.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 04:53:47 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Arse
Message:
Were you a premie in the 70's? How do you know that it was hysterical? How can you speak with such conviction of what happened if you weren't around? How does mass hysteria happen? Where or who is the momentum for it. There were times when we wouldn't see M publically for 8-9 months or maybe a year. How could we maintain hysteria for a year without hearing him?
Ben Lurking
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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 06:53:49 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: A Bedtime Story for Catweasel
Message:
Hi Cat,

Centre yourself. Anth the high is speaking to you.

As usual Cat' you've got it arse about face.

When I was a premie I was a big shot in Maharaji's tacky little organisation. No I've left I'm a nobody.

If I wanted to be a bigshot again, I'd jump right back into the pool. Shit Cat, I could be right back there in the front seats at the programme, backstage pass, rubbing shoulders with all my honcho mates again.

One of them told me recently that I'd been the subjet of much discussion amongst my old premie pals, and they were all sure I'd be back in the fold one day. So- the ground's already prepared Cat.

Trouble is, now I'm out of the muddy pool I can see it for what it is.

This reminds me of a story Cat.

Are you sitting comfortable, then I'll begin.

Once there was a frog who lived in a well. He was king of the well. Then one day this other frog falls in the well and tells him about the ocean. At first the frog in the well can't beleive there is anything bigger than his little world, but eventually he agrees to go out with the ocean frog and take a look, and whaddya know Cat, there's the big wide ocean.

Guess what Cat? Your stuck in a well. Come on out, the ocean's lovely.

Anth the High Guy
AJW

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 14:58:12 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: It was only a dream.
Message:
Hi Jerry,

I had this really wierd dream where everything smelt of piss, but I've woken up now and everything's alright.

Phew...

Thank God it was only a dream.

Anth the Not Starting Any More Defence Funds in a Hurry.

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Date: Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 11:00:59 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: It was only a dream.
Message:
That was no dream motherfucker!!
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Date: Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 14:13:28 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Gerry. Help. He's after me again.
Message:
Gerry, Help,

That nasty premie is after me again.

I'm weakening. Aaaaaaaagh. Video, video, must watch video. Snot, snot, must lick snot.

Aaaagh Master. I'm sorry. Please take me back. I promise to be good and laugh in all the right places.

Jai Gurudev Maharaji, your glory....etc

Yes yes. Catweasel, your Zen tactics have overpowered my mind, by His Grace. What a fool I was. I see it all now Cat. You are a vehicle for his love right?

Too late Gerry. I'm off to Enjoyinglife.crap to get blissed out.

Anth the Saved

(Where's that bankers' order. I must help in His work.)

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Date: Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 21:18:11 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: Who said he was?
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Gerry. Help. He's after me again.
Message:
Thank you for your wonderous vision Anth, However your prescence is no longer required.Try Macrame.
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Date: Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 06:10:13 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Monmat, Moi?.
Message:
Hmmm.

Does this mean the all forgiving, compassionate one, won't have me back into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Guess that means I must be a Monmat eh Cat? (Remember them?)

So, let's see if I've got this right. As well of suffering the humilation of contantly getting whupped by Cat the wise on the Forum, with his cutting wit, clear concise arguments and compassionate understanding for a fellow human being who's got confused by the Antichrist (Jim), now I've got to stand outside the Kingdom of Heaven, until the end of creation, watching even jerks like Adolph Hitler and Bill Clinton get invigted to Lords table, and I'm still stuck outside. (Bill and Adolph were never told the Lord was on the Planet, so ignorance being a perfectly valid excuse- they get in)

But me, who not only heard the Lord's message, received his 'holy knowledge of God', yay, even got to know him a bit- and now, not only turned my back on the Creator, spurned his holy knowledge, but have become a cohort of the Antichrist, and am now working activelyt working against the Lord, aligned with the powers of darkness.

So, if I'm Monmat, I stand outside the gates of Heaven, listing to the premies party over the wall. I'm thirsty, up to my neck in all the raw sewage I ever produced in my life, until the end of time, hungry and thirsty, itching all over, feeling most pissed off and silly. Then, after about 14 billion years or so of this, when the Universe finally ends, I'll be kicked downstairs with Jim, who will be the new Satan in the next creation, and I will be his right hand demon.

Have I got this right Cat?

What the fuck. At least I'm thinking for myself nowadays. I think I'll stick.

Cat, I'm glad you're back in this corner of the Forum where we can have a little chat.

Who's MacRame- a Scottish guru?

Anth the Monmat

(Better a Monmat than a Doormat eh Cat?)

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Date: Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 07:12:52 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: The sludge Pit
To: AJW
Subject: Repent or face the wall of Darkness
Message:
And as you stand ,up to your neck in raw sewerage,I the illustrious Catweasel shall power my luxurious Cabin cruiser in your general direction ,pulling out in the last moment leaving a shuddering heaving bow wave of pure shit, a veritable sunami of excretement flying towards you at over 25 knots.....Enjoy!!!P.S I have a cruiser because I once knew a Catholic priest and did not lay charges of beastiality. Tails of Darkness ?
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Date: Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 07:11:27 (EDT)
From: Catwesel
Email: The sludge Pit
To: AJW
Subject: Repent or face the wall of Darkness
Message:
And as you stand ,up to your neck in raw sewerage,I the illustrious Catweasel shall power my luxurious Cabin cruiser in your general direction ,pulling out in the last moment leaving a shuddering heaving bow wave of pure shit, a veritable sunami of excretement flying towards you at over 25 knots.....Enjoy!!!P.S I have a cruiser because I once knew a Catholic priest and did not lay charges of beastiality. Tails of Darkness ?
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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 21:01:30 (EDT)
From: Ash
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Arse
Message:
Greetings URL person.
Thankyou for your ...
other people in the room are abusing you at this time ...
As I was saying, Ta for the letter. Not bad. Howvever, this events were nowt to do with the 'seveneties.

It is my view, (and I have heard the opinions from both sides of the fence)

Hey, fresh news from 'Jim from Vancouver' ... a popular read in this house it seems ..

Anyway, a culture created that PROMOTES the giving of wealth is suss. No one stopped or vetted where the money and service was coming from.
The world was going to end next month? I was too busy living - There wasn't some wierd happening that suddenly MADE everyone who wanted to believe,
give all their stuff away?
ARSE
And there was ANY question about continuing your education?
SILLY
What kind of culture promotes that? There can be no denial that a very specific culture was created.
ARSE

Verey tried now.
Bye

Hal 2000

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 15:14:07 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Ash
Subject: Re: Arse
Message:
And there was ANY question about continuing your education?
SILLY
What kind of culture promotes that? There can be no denial that a very specific culture was
created.

The norm for the culture in question was that being happy was more important than higher education. (What an irresponsible concept!) But you cannot abdicate responsibilty for one's actions to the prevailing culture. For myself I take full responsibility for questioning whether or not to abandon my studies. I questioned it because it would have been a lot of fun to do what I was being offered, and ultimately I may have been happier doing so. I now make more money because of getting the education, but, would I have been happier if I'd chosen the other? The fact is, there's no telling where the other path would have lead. It's all academic at this point.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 16:45:06 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Arse
Message:
There is a real value to your making more money you can now give more to M, if he would have done that years ago instead of all the service related blue collar business he could be wealthy.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 17:34:23 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Re: Arse
Message:
There is a real value to your making more money you can now give more to M, if he would have one that years ago instead of all the service related blue collar business he could be wealthy.

Surprised such a money hungry man as you all contest to wouldn't have realized that then and encouraged people to get their education. So just to clarify: you're saying he's not wealthy -- yes?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 17:41:21 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Arse
Message:
Jim, you need to have another sidebar with your good buddy Ben in order to set some limits. If he keeps this up he's going to blow your whole story.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 17:58:21 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: URL--Ersatz Lawyer
Message:
What in the world are you prattling on about?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 18:29:35 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: URL--Ersatz Lawyer
Message:
Wellllllllllets see. Ben seems to have just expressed a hidden belief that Maharaji may not have had money as his motive after all, and that he's not a wealthy man. My point to Jim was he should put a muzzle on this kind of subversion or it's going to blow the party line.
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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 07:03:35 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Party Line
Message:
URL,

The only partly lines on this site are the ones round our eyes.

Bit different from round on 'Enjoyingcults.com' where, 'A single incorrect thought can destroy you.'

Premie mind control makes Stalinism look like playtime in the sand tray at Nursery school.

Anth the no longer believes fat bloke and snot are the two faces of God.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 21:11:51 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Oh, waiter?
Message:
Url,

You're nuts. You see a picture of a bear and you jump up and down yelling 'snake!' This is ridiculous.

Excuse me, waiter? Can we have another premie please? This one's... well, I don't know quite what to say.... a little flat or something? A little dull? There's just something not right about him. What else do you have?

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 07:08:14 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Sorry sir...
Message:
...your dish is having a deep inner experience that us lower beings cannot comprehend. Try sprinkling a little more wit on it, that might liven it up.

Anth Assistant Manager Cafe Rude

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 21:43:54 (EDT)
From: Waiter
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Oh, waiter?
Message:
Sir I am afraid that there is only one type of premie.
Pardon me sir but I have to go now and appease those lemmings over road who have been compared to premies.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 18:42:35 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Party Line
Message:
Ben seems to have just expressed a hidden belief that Maharaji may not have had money as his motive after all, and that he's not a wealthy man. My point to Jim was he should put a muzzle on this kind of subversion or it's going to blow the party line.

URL,

There is no party line. There is however no doubt that M is very wealthy. Who else could demolish a house in one of the most expensive pieces of real estate on the planet, and rebuild it?

However, regarding his motives, there really is a variety of views on this. Desire for money certainly appears to high on the list of likely motives, but other motives are possible:-

A desire to carry on his father's work, teaching meditation.

A desire to be worshipped.

A desire to have power over people.

I've read posts from exes expresing all these views. So that blows your party line statement doesn't it?

By the way you didn't reply to my last two posts to you. I feel like I'm being ignored.

John.

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 07:16:05 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: See the Premies Run
Message:
Hi John,

Don't worry, he ignores most of my questions too. I'm really astonished how these disciples of truth, with the knowledge of god, duch, dive and dodge any debate or questions we ask. They flit around nit picking and sniping like brainwashed scardy cats.

I find their stupidity and evasions quite reassuring. There really is nothing there. It's plain for all to see.

Anth the Loves to Watch the Premies Run

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 21:28:45 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Party Line
Message:
I feel like I'm being ignored.

You are.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 21:46:21 (EDT)
From: astounded watcher
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Party Line
Message:
Hey URL, Didn't you write the famous book 'How to win friends and influence people'?
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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 20:41:24 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Do you accept Ash on his own terms?
Message:
Url,

It sounds like you're accepting Ash at face value as, as his sister puts it, an informed outsider. In that case, why don't you ask him about some of these 'reasonableness' disputes?

Ask him, for starters, if he thinks Ben was lying.

You might also ask him to read through the various threads and opine on your general submissions.

That is, if you've got the guts.

Alternatively, you might present us with your own IO.

Ha!

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 19:42:46 (EDT)
From: LdM
Email: None
To: Ash Mackrell
Subject: Re: Arse
Message:
That's my brother talking. He didn't say those things to me when I was a premie, I can tell you! I wish he had. He's one of those informed outsiders that Jim has been talking about.
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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 22:11:03 (EDT)
From: CdM
Email: All, Marianne, Robyn
To: LdM
Subject: Re: Arse
Message:
Hi y'all,

I'm ever so sorry to seem like a party pooper but at 3.00 am British Summer Time Ash, Lee and myself must jump in a taxi and depart for Portugal (the sunniest destination in southern Europe according to Internet weather sources). I'm sorry that we won't be able to read or reply to any responses to our posts. If somebody could be so good, say Marianne or Robyn, could you keep an eye on the posts and fill us in with what we missed when we return in two weeks.

The very best to you all... Charlie, Lee and Ash the Informed Outsider

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 17:10:44 (EDT)
From: CdM
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Holi Bongo
Message:
Holi Festival was always looked forward to as though it were Christmas in the premie calendar. It is an ancient Hindu festival where devotees throw coloured paint on each other for a reason that was never fully explained to me. It was special for premies because Mj would soak them/us all with coloured water fired from a riot cannon. Mmmmm... nice.

London

On the way out of a London community satsang at Conway Hall one Saturday evening I spotted a friend talking with a sister on the pavement. Their tone was rather serious and he didn't notice when I hailed him. As I approached I caught his eye. 'Look there's Charlie, he'll do it for you!' he exclaimed. I approached, 'do what?' I said. Before he could answer a voluptuous blonde premie called Jo Leslie stepped forward. 'Charlie! Great to see you.' She didn't know me but behaved like we were the oldest of pals. 'We need carpenters in Rome for Holi Festival, you know' she said, 'how soon can you get there? Can you go tomorrow?' This all seemed a bit fast but because I was a youthful idiot I was easily manipulated by a fully featured blonde. 'Y'know we really, really, really need like y'know need carpenters, y'know' she rambled on. I didn't need much persuasion, I had heard a lot of satsang that suggested the best way to get close to Mj was through service. I was the kind who was always in the back row of the bleachers so this seemed to be an invitation not to be missed.

Within a day or so I was sitting on an aeroplane with my toolkit in the over head locker. My poor girlfriend was left alone once again while I was about my Father's business.

In those heady days of youth I was eager to apply my energy to a worthy task. A task that only an elite few on planet earth properly understood. This was truly a special mission. How many other people were there flying across Europe with a secret toolkit hidden in the plane? I was secret agent 0000007, licenced to build a stage for the Lord of the Universe. I was proud to be given such a special service for Mj and in my small way could help him to take his message to the world.

Rome

Because I was living on a shoestring in those days I couldn't choose comfortable accommodation in a Rome hotel or even a flea pit for that matter. I always headed for the most convenient campsite. The nearest to the Palazzo dello Sport (the main venue) was 'Camping Fabulous', an international public facility. There were already many young tourists and Italians dug in. While they were sunning themselves in their deckchairs, each day I was grafting away for Mj in a field a couple of hundred metres south of the Palazzo. I had been assigned to the waterworks gang as opposed to the main stage or darshan area at the sports arena.

The co-ordinators had identified a grassy knoll to the side of the field and figured it was the best place for Mj to shoot at us from. The plan was to build a small changing area in a kind of tent shaped structure on the very top with say, three rooms. From there a sweeping path came down the side of the hill to a circular platform where the cannon itself would be mounted.

This was the first big stage project that I had worked on and I was not an experienced builder. I noticed on arrival DLM hadn't supplied any tools at all with which to build a stage. There were only some shovels and landscaping tools used to level off parts of the hill to enable building. The team were nearly all French guys and I remember working with one fella in particular called Phillipe. When I showed up the main coordinator (I think his name was Francois), was mulling over a drawing with his men. It was the first and last time that I would talk to him. I wonder what they would have done if I hadn't arrived. I think they had a hammer and a staple gun between them. Anyway, we got to it and with cooperation and determination, we produced a beautiful little summer house. Francois only returned fleetingly from time to time to check progress from a distance.

Before I go on, I should say that it was made clear to us from the time of arrival that some prime seats had been set aside in the main arena for the building crew. We would all get to see Mj clearly when he gave satsang. Because nobody wanted to appear avaricious a big deal was not made of it. It was clear however, that beneath the surface we were all delighted at this exciting privilege.

It was hard work but I must say I enjoyed myself that week. The weather was good and I learned some fascinating new building techniques, especially the method for constructing a divine latrine (something which I have since found very useful in my day to day life). In the evening it was sometimes possible to visit a local bar for a cold beer. Actually I felt slightly guilty about that, but the French insisted.

On Thursday afternoon we were making the final adjustments to the living area at the top of the hill. We were all keeping an eye open for the arrival of Francois and our seating passes. We waited for him all afternoon but he didn't show. The consensus was that something had gone wrong. We all wanted to get close to the Lord and those passes were gold dust. Some guys decided to make their way up to the Palazzo to try and find our man. I couldn't get there as I had to pack up the tools and lug them back to the campsite where I'd arranged to meet up with my girlfriend. I hoped one of the other guys might try and get my pass on my behalf.

That evening the campsite was filling up fast with premies coming from all over Europe. All the campsite's communal facilities were being overrun as temporary satsang areas. God knows what the poor Italians must have thought had descended upon them. Premies travelling to festivals had a real 'don't give a fuck' attitude to ordinary people. They'd take over airport lounges, hotel lobbies, restaurants, you name it. If two or more were gathered in his name they'd scare all and sundry out of the building in two minutes flat. In the millee I was lucky enough to meet my girlfriend as arranged. We were both tired, so we went to bed early.

At about five o'clock in the morning, over the campsite loud hailer, came an announcement that carpenters were urgently needed at the Palazzo. It was so loud, it must have awoken everybody on the site. I felt very badly for all the innocent folk who were jolted out of their slumber for that. My girlfriend looked at me and asked if I was going. I don't remember much discussion about it. Within minutes I was back on board the shuttle bus heading for the hall.

For the next few hours I worked on the darshan stage and tunnel area. The place was buzzing with eager premies bleary eyed but prepared to do anything for the Lord and to get his darshan. His darshan was all I was thinking about. God knows I treated my girlfriend badly sometimes in order to get close to Mj. It was only because she too was a premie that she was prepared to accept such outrageous behaviour. I knew that if she had the chance of a good seat she wouldn't have looked back at me.

At some time between eight and nine a.m. my services were no longer required. I gathered up my kit and hauled myself out of the backstage area and into the arena. I had never been so close as that to the stage that M sat on. I carried my bags across the floor in front of the stage and sat down on one of the prime seats. I imagined what it must be like to be this close to M while he gave satsang. I began to meditate. Within a few minutes a hand touched me on the shoulder. 'Are you an ashram premie, brother?' 'No' I said, 'why?' 'You cannot sit here if you are not an ashram premie'.

It was before nine in the morning, the hall was virtually empty. The doors hadn't even opened. I explained that I had just finished doing service backstage and just wanted to relax and meditate for a few minutes before going back to the campsite to clean up. 'You cannot sit there brother. You are not an ashram premie. These seats are specially reserved for ashram premies you understand.'

'Look', I said, 'there's nobody here. I just wanted to sit and medit...' 'You cannot sit here brother. These seats are reserved. Only ashram premies can sit in these seats, brother. You have to move'. He was much more forceful and his hand was against my back. I could see I wasn't making any progress with this guy. I got up and left. I felt totally dejected. Did nobody have even a morsel of sensitivity? I wanted Mj to help me at times like this. I began to sob. As I walked around the corridors leading to the exit, I ran into my friend from the London program who had introduced me to the buxom blonde pressganger. He was in the hall doing security when he spotted me in distress. He came and tried his best to explain that we don't always understand why things work out the way they do. All we can do is surrender and trust in Mj. He opened an emergency exit door, the brilliant morning sun flooded the corridor and I was invited to leave the building.

The doors opened for the first big event at around midday Friday. I had returned to the hall along with my girlfriend and a few other friends. Before we had found seats I spotted Phillipe my construction worker pal. I hurried to him and asked him whether or not he had gotten a pass. It turned out that he had but he had to fight for it. He didn't seem to want to talk about it. He brought me to the edge of the arena and pointed to where the builders' seats were located. There was a chance that if I could get to the coordinator I might be in with a chance. Once again my girlfriend wished me well and we parted company. I walked into the arena and made for the construction worker seats. About midway across the arena floor I was stopped by a security premie with a walkie-talkie. 'Have you got a seat in this area?' he asked. 'Yes, over there with the construction teams' I pointed across the room. 'Have you an arena pass?' he asked me. 'Well no, not yet. I've got to pick it up from my coordinator'.

I strained my eyes trying to see Francois in the distance. I couldn't be sure if he was there or not. The security premie placed his hand upon my chest, blocking my passage. 'I'm sorry, you'll have to leave the arena and find a seat elsewhere'. I looked around and noticed lots of empty seats behind me. I figured it might be OK for me to use one of these seats while I was waiting for Francois. I sat down on a convenient seat. The security premie got on his walkie-talkie. He was keeping a firm eye on me, all the while he was calling for support. Soon I could see other security premies with radio sets. They were moving towards me from the sides of the arena. Before long, I was closely flanked by two strong armed guys, who told me that it was time for me to leave. They held my arms, stood me up and walked me smartly towards the closest exit. I protested that I could walk without assistance, but they only released me at the door. 'Please listen', I implored 'There's been a mix up and I am late to get my pass'. They stood whispering satsang to me. As they seemed so reasonable at this point, I shared with them my dream of being close to maharaji and how I had come to Rome to do service building the stage. The more senior security premie explained that though service was indeed a way to get close to Mj, there was another more important aspect which I had lost sight of. And that was surrender. 'Surrender?' I said 'But, I've been surrendering all week'. The security premie looked at me firmly and declared that I should continue to surrender and get out!

With that, I gave up my quest. I had lost sight of my pals and was alone. I was distressed and angry. As I strutted through the crowded corridors, I walked smack into an old school chum of mine. He was also on the security squad and was always well connected. When I told him my story, he told me that I was probably better off than I knew. He told me that the Pass Allocation office was heaving with premies, stabbing each other in the back to get prime seats. They were selling their grandmothers. He then turned to take his own arena seat. I made my way to the highest balcony seat where I belonged. Nobody objected to me choosing a place there. I was convinced it would all make sense one day. One thing I can be sure of is that no amount of satsang, service, meditation or surrender ever got me closer to Mj. I learned only recently that there were schemes set up later to BUY a front row seat, but I could never afford those kind of prices.

While recalling all this detail, I can take no pride in my own behaviour during that period of my life. If I met myself today I'm sure I would consider myself an insufferable jerk.

lots of love Charlie

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 07:57:48 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: CdM
Subject: Hey Charlie!
Message:
Hey Charlie,

I knew you then. You weren't an insufferable jerk.

You were the same lovable, boring old fart you are today.

Have a good holiday.

Anth the Having a Good Holiday Too.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 23:38:13 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: CdM
Subject: How far did it go?
Message:
Well brother; speaking now as a premie in that time I can say that you were definitely in your mind, not surrendered and were being taught a lesson by Maharaji. Maharaji is omnipresent and it doesn't matter whether you're sitting on his knee or looking at him through binoculars from the back of the program.

You were still looking for something for yourself. You were still thinking about yourself and were concerned with yourself and didn't trust Maharaji to manipulate all the events to your favour, if only you'd surrendered.

Maharaji did what he did to you out of love for you. He was teaching you a valuable lesson that you don't have to try to achieve darshan or anything because his grace will always lift you up, no matter what the situation. This is his lila. He was playing with you and he showed more love to you that day than if you'd been perched right under his feet.

You can be thankful to Maharaji that he played with you in this way because it shows that he hadn't forgotten you and loves you very much. He wants you to be with him always and this lila was done out of mercy for you, to enable you to be with him, the real Maharaji, who is always with you.

And there you have it. Does that sound familiar? That's how it used to be. Just how deep and how far did this trip go? It wrecked lives, that's what it did. For some people, their whole lives were sacrificed on the altar to a lying, cheating and very insincere little God imposter. Some people gave too much and they will never recover.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 08:05:46 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: The Power of Satsang
Message:
Mornin' milud,

May I say what a brilliant piece of satsang that was. Reading it straight after Charlie's piece,l I was completely cracking up halfway through. I almost thought it would have been more powerful without the last paragraph, but it would probably have confused the premies if you'd left it off.

Will you honour the South London Ex-Premie Latvian Contingent Piss Up with your presence milud? You were conspicuous by your absence at the last do. An aristocrat in attendance would add considerable prestige to the gathering.

Anth the humble peasant.

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 08:08:15 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: AJW
Subject: Re: The Power of Satsang
Message:
Thanks for the invite and I'm sorry I was conspicuous by my absence. Trouble is, I do have some quite debilatating health problems, quite bad ME (chronic fatique syndrome), (MCS, multiple chemical sensitivity) and a muscle disease. This makes me less able to get around than normal people and trekking over to Putney in my current state would be difficult.

Anth, to be honest, I'm in a fucking hole with my health problems and have been so for the last few of years. I hope some day to have better news. I don't usually talk about it here but sometimes I'm really pissed off with my inability to do things which others take for granted.

Anyway, your presence here is greatly appreciated by me and reminds me of the old days. You won't remember me but of course, I remember you who were most blessed amongst men to be in the presence of the Lord back then. There might have been a rumour around that you were the re-incarnation of St Peter but I didn't believe it because clearly, Peter was Milky Cole.

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 11:49:02 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: To Sir D
Message:
Dear David -
I always forget about your disabilities because you have such a good attitude on here. I have been diagnosed with mild CFS (or whatever) and I know what a drag THAT can be; can't imagine what it must be like for you. I know that you know all the usual advice about stress and attitude and so forth - I just wish there was something else that medicine (or whatever) could do about these diseases.

Anyway, thank god for the Internet - I'm really glad you're able to be on the forum(s).

Love,
Katie

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 11:33:12 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: That fucking sucks
Message:
David,

Are things really that bad that you can't even socialize a bit? YOU, of all people? That sucks the big one. Maybe Maharaji's God after all? (Just a bad joke 'cause I don't know what else to say.)

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 09:13:51 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: ET suits & Evian?
Message:
Hi Dave,

That's a drag about your health. I hope you get it all sorted out OK.

I definitely remember your name Dave, and I'm sure when I see your ugly kisser, half close my eyes to blur out the lines and imagine hair at the top, a stack of Divine Times under the arm and a smile brighter than a thousand leaflets, I'll probably recognise you too.

I've had an idea. Maybe we could get hold of some of those suits the scientists wore in ET, and come round your place with a case of Sainsbury's Sparkling Mineral Water, and plot our evil overthrow of this hideous cult in your living room. Then Anth will be Saint Peter no more...the Krishna crown will sit on the head of the first half Irish Perfect Master the world has known. Then my glory will be revealed for all to see. And the world will know, Anth has come with more power than ever before, and the lion will truly shag the lamb and a fat old fart shall lead them...yeah for it is written...

Ooops sorry Dave, got carried away a bit there. Take no notice. What was I saying....? Oh yeah, what about coming round your place sometime?

Gorrago

Anth, With More Power Than Ever Before (and I want a bigger throne than ever before too, and a bigger crown, and I want real jewels on mine, not that paste crap on my predec, predesc. predis..the other bloke's)

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 09:20:00 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: ET suits & Evian?
Message:
Hey Anth,
Why don't you drop the guru crap and be like Santa Clause and come round to all our living rooms! That would be something worthwhile now, eh? :)
Love,
Robyn, the good girl all year, so far.
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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 09:32:01 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Guru Crap
Message:
Hi Robyn,

Don't I know you from somewhere? No forget it.

Sorry, oh yeah. I'm too fat to get down the chimney, and besides, I've tried to work it out, half a billion christians, twenty hours max, that's a couple of nanoseconds per devotee, I'd have to go so fast nobody would see me, then they'd all stop believing in me when they got to about 6.

When I manifest in my Divine State everyone will be able to see me in the flesh, then it will be an EXPERIENCE NOT A BELIEF.

I hope this explains everything.

Anth the Wheresmetablets?

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 12:00:36 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: More Useful Saints
Message:
Hi Anth -
I agree with Robyn about the guru crap. How about Saint Anthony - at least he does something worthwhile. (Saint Jude is my personal favorite, but his is a hard act to handle.)

Love,
Katie

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Date: Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 06:34:50 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Sorry Katie
Message:
Sorry Katie,

I'm aiming for the top. I want the crown and the throne.

Besides, I've a few ideas of my own on how to improve the Darshan Line. For one thing, I'll wear rubber boots, so I don't get my silk socks wet- but I don't want to reveal my hand too soon, so I'll shut up.

Anth With More Power Than Ever Before

(Just wait and see Katie, those lions will be shagging the lambs before you can say 'Lamb Chop').

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 12:32:41 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Re: More Useful Saints
Message:
Dear Katie,
St. Jude's story eludes me, what is it?
Love,
Robyn, the ex-Catholic even before being an ex-premie!
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Date: Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 06:37:59 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: St Jude
Message:
Hi Robyn,

Didn't she take a sad song and make it better?

Anth the Naaaa naaaa naaaa na na na na, na na na naaaa...etc

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 13:47:16 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: More Useful Saints
Message:
Hi Robyn -
St. Jude is the patron saint of hopeless causes (that's why people are always doing novenas to him, and putting ads in the paper about it.) I even have a St. Jude candle for bad days.

Love,
Katie

Not Catholic, but am related to a few...

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 08:51:39 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: The Power of Latvian Black Balzams
Message:
Sir Dave,

I'm sorry to hear of your health problems. May I bring to your attention the health giving properties, of Latvian beer, Latvian vodka, and last but not least Latvian Black Balzams, which tastes like it should cure all known diseases!

Seriously, a good friend of mine had ME a few years back and she was completely zonked all the time. She got better, so I hope the same happens to you.

All the best,

John.

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 11:38:59 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Are all you Latvians such braggarts?
Message:
Seriously, a good friend of mine had ME a few years back and she was completely zonked all the time. She got better, so I hope the same happens to you.

Really, John,

I thought us jews were something (both in the act and yes, I admit, in the telling). But, well, she was really that zonked huh? Yet she got better? Wow.

Jim :)

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 18:56:19 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Are all you Latvians such braggarts?
Message:
Er..... don't understand. Does zonked have a different meaning in your language?

John the English language novice

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Date: Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 06:45:26 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: It's not English John.
Message:
Hi John,

Lots of our nation's culture fell overboard when we went overseas to civilise the world.

You can't blame young Jim for what's happened to our mother tongue since, what made it over the water has gone to seed anyway. The colonists have to do their best with what little resources are available to them.

Anth the Imperialist

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 21:12:39 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Hint: it's got to do with 'ME'
Message:
Come on, John, you can do it.
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Date: Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 19:41:25 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Hint: it's got to do with 'ME'
Message:
Sorry Jim, I guess stupidity is something I will be aflicted by until my death.

Quite witty really.

John.

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Date: Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 21:59:28 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: I finally got it
Message:
And it doesn't have anything to do with 'zonked'. Put ME in lower case and you'll get it too. (Sheesh, Jim!).

PS to John, I wasn't kidding about the Black Balzams.

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 09:26:22 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Black Balzams healing powers
Message:
Hi JHB

The reason Latvian Black Balsams kills all known diseases is because it kills the host who carries them too.

I hear, if diluted, it takes paint of anything. Undiluted, it's a bit like the Alien's blood, burns through steel etc.

Its banned as a chemical weapon under the Geneva conventionl, and in Latvia, is credited with getting rid of the Russians and causing the collapse of the Soviet Empire.

Boris Yeltsin drank a bottle in 1989 and he's still staggering.

Blather blather blather

Anther the Blanther.

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 11:54:44 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Black Balzams healing powers
Message:
Hi John -
After hearing Anth's description of Latvian Black Balzams, I want some. Actually, I really like slivovitz, grappa, and all those moonshine/eau de vie type liquors, and this sounds similar (i.e. paint stripper). My ex was somewhat of an organic chemist and used to say that you could smell all the weird permutations of different alcohols in these concoctions - maybe that's why they're so good for what ails you - if they don't kill you, they cure you.

Seriously, the stuff sounds good (not kidding). Trade you an almost-orginal LOTU tape for a bottle?

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Date: Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 04:19:24 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Black Balzams healing powers
Message:
Getting a bottle of Black Balzams to you might be difficult. Can strong alcoholic drinks be sent through the post from the UK to the US?

John.

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 13:51:48 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: JHB
Subject: PS to JHB re LOTU
Message:
P.S. John - I WILL send you that LOTU copy no matter what & you can keep it to make PAL copies. That particular copy got stuck out on the West Coast (with some ex-premies who will remain nameless - snicker), and as far as I know, it's supposed to come back to me soon. (Yeah, I know, I told you that three months ago, but so did they! It seems to be a hard video to let go of.)
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Date: Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 17:26:36 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Hey, you, girlfriend!
Message:
Katie! Don't you snicker at me! Read your email. You'll have the video within the week. Or, I can send it directly on to John, if you and he like. Why not?
Love and kisses, yours in sisterhood,
Marianne
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Date: Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 04:13:50 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Hey, you, girlfriend!
Message:
It doesn't matter to me which of you wonderful ladies sends it to me!

John.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 18:38:05 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: CdM
Subject: Re: Holi Bongo
Message:
Dear Charlie,
How many times did this type of thing happen to you!? I am so glad you finally took your life back and are moving forward in a positive way with your life.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 21:50:45 (EDT)
From: CdM
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Holi Bongo
Message:
Hi Robyn,

Thanks for reading through this rambling piece. It's a kind of on-line excorcism for me. I actually feel a bit sorry posting these long thingys.
It's the way they fall out of my head I guess. You'll just have to put up with it from time to time.

Looking back over my years spent as a devotee it seems that time was punctuated with shit falling on me. It didn't seem like it was happening to everyone else but I suspect it was. I didn't have a safety net, did they? My friends would rally round and try to be encouraging when thing went wrong. Mind you, they didn't do the kind of service I did. The trouble was that every time I gave of myself I would be hit by lightning again. I reckon all the premies who did the kind of service I did were never gracefully thanked or shown any courtesy. I'm sure many of them feel bad but cover it over because of pride or whatever.

With reference to premies doing service in other areas, say food. Now I remember Dortmund festival, Germany 1979. I was broke but some premies I knew told me to come along with them their van regardless. What I saw at Dortmund was shocking I can tell you...
Charlie

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 22:09:17 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: CdM
Subject: To be continued...
Message:
Dear Charlie,
I am glad you have this place to let this stuff out. That is the forum at its best. I was talking to Marianne and it is so great to have you and Lee here even though it isn't all great for each of you. You know you will get lots of support. The forum is odd like that, it can be cut throat or mean but when someone really needs support it is there.
Next week tune in for the shocking story of Dortmund, 1979.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 16:04:36 (EDT)
From: LdM
Email: None
To: All
Subject: A wee bit of a journey
Message:
I've been looking back in my diary to try and work out when this all began for me and I am shocked that it's only been a mere 4 and a half weeks! It certainly doesn't feel like that. The funny thing is that I can't really remember what it was that made me decide that I had to become an ex. Several things I think...

Charlie (my husband) had been, unusually for him, quite depressed and kept on going on about mid-life crises, our bodies decaying, getting fatter etc. He seemed to have a bad outlook on everything. Then, he started bringing up maharaji and knowledge and I thought O No! Not this old chestnut again! We've had many arguments in the past - our different belief systems have never been in alignment. Charlie had been brought up as a Catholic whereas I had no religious background at all. As everybody has expressed on the forum, we all came to knowledge for our separate reasons, looking for the Truth. But I wanted so much - a substitute love, a substitute drug experience, a refuge from the hostile world I was entering, a means to shirk responsibility, a substitute parent to tell me everything was going to be alright. Once I got knowledge I hung onto it. In this argument with Charlie, I suddenly found myself once again in opposition to him, hanging onto my ideas and feelings for dear life. I tried to console and encourage him by reminding him of the more positive aspects of our lives. He was not responsive. It was around this time that I noticed him browsing the ex-premie website. I was quite outraged. What good was it doing him? How could that help us? When he suggested that I take a look, I refused to do it. I began to feel that Charlie was stirring up something that he should be leaving well alone.

Over the next few days, Charlie printed up the premie apologia for me. They didn't make any sense to me - I recognised that I used those answers in arguments, but didn't see them as excuses or that there was anything wrong with them. Next, he gave me a sheet with about 10 questions on it - a kind of How to Determine if You Are in a Cult or Not! I glanced at them, but didn't give them much thought. After Charlie made his first contact on the forum I secretly, perhaps naively hoped that he would soon lose interest and we could resume our lives without any further disruption and upset. No way!

Very soon after that, because I still was refusing to look at the ex-premie site, he printed up Anth's journey and gave it to me before I went off to work one morning. I stuffed it in my bag and said I 'might' read it if I had time. My curiosity got the better of me and I started reading it on the train to work. As I got further into Anth's journey, I began to see the crazy way he had been living his life, how he had dedicated so much to maharaji and how little he had received in return. When he described how he had to sleep under a table out in the garden, because the place he had got together with his wife was overrun with children of premies and premies, my stomach started to squirm. For the first time, I acknowledged to myself that there was something wrong with a premie having to make such commitments to maharaji. I had to stop reading.

When I got home later that day, I told Charlie that I had read some of it but that it was too much for me to digest. I left it for several days, with the pages face down on a table in the kitchen. I couldn't bring myself to read it. I feared that if I read the whole document, my doubts about maharaji might bubble over. I was right.

I finally took the step and went to ex-premie.org myself. It was The Journeys Section which I focussed upon. There were so many things I had never heard about - the microphone bugging, the inner hierarchy of the divine light mission. They didn't fit in with my views of enlightened souls. All this time, however I found a way to excuse maharaji. I thought that he couldn't have known about these things, if he had, surely he would have put a stop to them immediately? By the time I had read them all, I was horrified and saddened. Premies wasting years of their lives enslaved, making maharaji ever richer. That he was the insidious force behind it all is undeniable.

This experience has been and still is very painful. Unlike my husband who has been mulling this matter over for some time, it has been a somewhat more rapid process for myself. I feel as though I have been thrown headlong into the eye of a storm, dragged in against my will. Consequently there has been a lot of thrashing about and bucketloads of tears. With all my beliefs trashed, I am now on unfamiliar ground - I haven't got anyone or anything telling me what to think or how to behave. It feels really weird and scary.

Despite having a loving family and friends who will stick by me I still long for something magical in my life. I hope that this is still possible for me.

Lee

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 22:57:47 (EDT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: LdM
Subject: Re: A wee bit of a journey
Message:
Lee, there will be something magical in your life, still, now, forever. And it will probably be more magical than the half-baked path of 'knowledge' that you and I and we have traveled on.

If you hang out on this site, you will see that some of us meditate, some of us don't. Some of us are wickedly cynical, some of us are hippieshly naive. (I am in the middle.)

But, free of dogma that pretends to be dogma-free, you will be free. To live.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 18:55:16 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: LdM
Subject: Re: A wee bit of a journey
Message:
Dear Lee,
Thank you so much for this post. I hope it helped you to write it. I am so glad to have a woman from England to join us. Maybe more will follow.
I was only in a few years and that was many years ago and I guess I didn't buy it hook line and sinker anyway so it was an easy transition for me. I try to relate but find it hard to imagine how you and other recent 'realized' ex's feel. One thing I do see in all of you is a pain, sadness, maybe even dispair. I am sorry you have to go through this but thank god too.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 17:14:15 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: LdM
Subject: Re: A wee bit of a journey
Message:
With all my beliefs trashed, I am now on unfamiliar ground

I can relate to that, Lee.
What a great post, BTW.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 16:17:38 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: LdM
Subject: Bravo Lee!
Message:
Bravo Lee!

'And so it came to pass that the ocean full of sharks was just a puddle and the Lord of the Universe turned out to be just an ordinary bloke. So we all went home and watched Telly.'

Life as an Ex does have it's benefits though Lee. It's been a year, and I still get a buzz from going to sleep without practising. The guilt's gone at last.

Practice? Me? I'd rather pick my nose.

Anth the Nasal.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 18:42:02 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: LdM
Subject: Mucho cyber-applause!
Message:
Lee: Thank you so much for making this post. Anth's Journey has done it again. I am also glad that the Premie apologia made a difference. Coming to terms with re-defining one's life without GMJ, especially when you have spent years devoted to him, is very frightening. But it is also thrilling. I think it is safe to say that most of the ex's who post here went through the stage you are experiencing and found they just had to trust in themselves. To me, it felt like how the nuns used to describe purgatory -- a waystation where you're waiting to see where you will go next. Ultimately, I found comfort in realizing that there was no 'pat' answer for everything, and that it was far more liberating to deal with difficulties in my life and with my family, rather than to avoid 'getting into my mind'.

You are luckier than some, Lee. You have a wonderful husband, 2 kids, and families who still love and support you. I'd say that's a great start.

Realizing that there is another whole side to Maharaji opens more than the third eye, doesn't it?

Love you, Marianne

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 19:01:05 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: SF earthquake
Message:
Dear Marianne,
Hey lady, sorry to inturpt this thread but I just heard on the news and got an email from friends near SF that there was an earthquake. Jade just got back to PA on Saturday as she was visiting Jess there and then Jess left to go on vacation with family who live out there. She was 6 hrs away so I don't think she felt it. No one was home at her apartment. I wonder if things will looked tossed about (the British influence :). I like the word bum a lot more than ass too! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 19:05:16 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: SF earthquake
Message:
Hey Robyn Goddess of Summer! We got a good shake here, but the epicenter was across the Golden Gate Bridge in Bolinas. No damage in SF. In Bolinas, bottles and jars fell off shelves, but that's about it. My cat made a huge dive under the sofa as it started, which freaked me out. They always say out here the animals can feel it coming. Her reaction made me think it was going to be a lot worse than it was. After all, she is a scardy cat!

Nope, just a good, hard shake at 5.0. No need to worry. Maybe we'll arrange one for late November!

Much love, Marianne

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 20:09:28 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: SF earthquake
Message:
Dear Marianne,
If you are 'booking' a quake for November, let me know and I'll vacation in Philidelphia where my layover is! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 15:39:51 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: none
To: All
Subject: Vertical Markets
Message:
Lets see DLM had all these ashrams and all the ashram premies needed full time service so all these companies were created to help support them and generate income. In Denver we had a luandyry, food distribution, construction, publishing and graphic arts Rance did all the Celestial seasoning boxes and ads), a sound recording company, a printing company. how many more were there.
If we evaluate it from a business model all the moves M has made make sense (closing down money losing intrests.) selling others. the current model is still the same a group of vertically integrated businesses. I wonder what changes first the econmomic model or the 'premies need to do this now' model.
Comments from ex-es only please.
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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 16:24:02 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Divine Economics
Message:
Hi Ben,

I always though premie economics was based on a sort of voluntary slavery, known as 'service'. Apparently members were brainwashed in sessions where they were told over and over that their Master was God and he wanted them to serve him.

As their reward was in 'heaven' no earthly recompense was necessary.

From an economic point of view, this is wonderful, and almost any half arsed business idea can be a success.

I believe this economic model is still used at cult events, where there is sometimes a ratio of 3.2 ushers and security for every member of the audience.

Anth the Amateur Economist.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 16:31:24 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Inifinite pool of slave-workers and ushers
Message:
I believe this economic model is still used at cult events, where there is sometimes a ratio of 3.2 ushers and security for every member of the audience.

SO TRUE!

It's ridiculous and embarassing. Can you imagine bringing a new person to such a video event? If I was the new person I'd start getting paranoid real quick.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 11:21:47 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Wait 'til they try darshan
Message:
By Claudine Chamberlain

ABCNEWS.com

Mantra as Medicine

They say doctors make the worst patients. And in Dr. Debra Klamen’s case, it’s true.
Klamen, a Chicago psychiatrist, hates going to the doctor. And the anxiety she feels at every checkup pushes her blood pressure way past the healthy range. About a year and a half ago, it got so bad that her doctor suggested putting her on daily medication to lower her blood pressure.
But Klamen had another idea. Now, whenever she has a doctor’s appointment, she arrives 15 minutes early and spends that time meditating in the waiting room. She closes her eyes, breathes deeply and pictures herself in her “relaxed place” — on the back of Jet, the Arabian horse she had as a teenager.
“I’m patting the horse on the head, and with each pat, I picture my blood pressure going down a notch,” she says. “My doctor thinks it’s kind of funny, but it works. And it keeps me off the medications, which I don’t really want to take.”

Relax, Go With the Flow

Doctors have long known that meditation and certain other relaxation techniques help keep blood pressure at low, healthy levels. Now, new research at the Medical College of Georgia sheds some light on just how meditation works its magic.
Dr. Vernon Barnes, a disease prevention expert and lead researcher on the study, says he found that meditation actually reduces blood vessel constriction, lowering blood pressure and, in the long run, reducing a person’s risk for heart disease.
In the latest issue of the medical journal Psychosomatic Medicine, Barnes describes how he tested a group of 14 healthy adults against 18 people who had long been avid practitioners of Transcendental Meditation (TM), a form of meditation based on Indian religious customs and popularized in the West by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in the 1960s.
All of the people who took part in the study were hooked up to a blood pressure cuff on the arm and eight electrodes (sticky sensors) on the neck and chest. In the first session, both groups were asked to relax for 20 minutes with their eyes open. In the second test, the meditators were asked to close their eyes and meditate while the others were asked to relax as completely as possible with their eyes closed.

Opening Up the Pipes

The sensors showed that during the second test, people in the meditation group had a 6.5 percent decrease in constriction of their veins, while the other group actually had a 1.6 percent increase. Even during the eyes-open session, the meditators’ veins were less constricted.
The biological link between meditation and relaxed blood vessels is still unclear, Barnes says. It could be that meditation somehow tells the body to decrease production of endothelin-1, a powerful hormone that causes veins to tighten up. Or it might increase production of nitric oxide, which helps the vessels dilate.
Either way, he says, it’s clear from his tests that using a specific meditation technique was better than simply closing your eyes and relaxing.
“Some people find it hard to relax if they don’t know how to do it. They have intrusive thoughts,” he says. “Meditation is a more efficient, more effective way of deeply relaxing, especially when it’s practiced on a daily basis.”

Have a Mantra, Not a Mocha

The technique of Transcendental Meditation involves focusing your attention on a particular tranquil word, or “mantra,” while letting your mind drift into a higher level of consciousness. Repeating the mantra, a word of your choosing, helps you get rid of distracting thoughts.
Klamen, who first became interested in meditation in medical school as a way to keep her stressed-out friends from unhealthy alcohol and food binges, now teaches the technique to doctors and medical students. She advises them to practice short bouts of meditation throughout the day as a way to keep stress levels from going through the roof.
“It looks like a sine wave,” she says. “The level of stress goes up and down all day instead of up and up and up.”
With heart disease reigning as the nation’s top killer, and stress an ever-present problem in just about every workplace, perhaps even more of us should trade in our coffee breaks for a mantra break.

In a related study, 28 young interns viewed videos of Maharaji for an average of 12 hours per week for a period of six months. They were also asked to submit questions in writing (although those questions were not answered). Five of the subjects reported feeling more sincere afterward and three felt more gratitude. In each case, the subject tested as more stupid and the study, originally funded for nine months, was cut short.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 17:33:16 (EDT)
From: nigel - probably quoted verbatim
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Jim
Subject: from the Maharishi himself (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 09:40:23 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: All
Subject: The eclipse: a premie predicts !!
Message:
From this week's Private Eye (UK satirical mag):

>
7 August: The paper's astrologer, Jonathan Cainer, offers further enlightenment: 'It is so important, so significant, that I hardly know how to begin explaining it to you,' he writes. 'think of it as a cosmic wash cloth which harnesses the scouring strength of Saturn, the polishing power of Mars, and the unique 'magic formula' of the planet Uranus. There's not a sad, sorry stain in the world that can withstand this cosmic combination.'

11 August: The great day dawns. 'Britain will come to a halt this morning, ' the Daily Mail announces on its front page. And if Jonathan Cainer is right, it may well stay that way.

'What if the ancient prophesies are right?' he muses. 'What if this eclipse really does spell the beginning of the end of the world? Or what, for that matter, if means the opposite? What if, as we all stare hopefully upwards at the sky, a ladder descends from the heavens? what if the creator steps gracefully down it to walk among us all in human form once more? [my emphasis] Or what if we are somehow summoned to walk up it and account for our actions here on Earth?... I am now going to offer you my very best, most honest answer: 'I don't know'. ' His guess however, is that: 'the eclipse does indeed herald an imminent day of judgement'.
>
Private Eye's 'Hackwatch' 20/08/99 (not yet on-line)

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 15:59:23 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: The eclipse: a premie predicts !!
Message:
Thanks for writing that. I really must buy Private Eye as this is getting interesting and they won't put Jon Cainer down now they've found a little niche in their mag to put him in.

The saying, 'If you can't beat them, join them' could be true for Jon. He might as well play the New Age bearded astrologer for all it's worth. Actually, I quite liked him when he wrote for the old 'Today' newspaper.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 16:26:08 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: To: Sir D - did you get my email? IMPORTANT
Message:
Sir D.,

I'm hoping you got my email in regards to the Anything Goes forum. It's a dire situation that needs to be fixed ASAP.

If you didn't get the email the problem is the huge, huge, huge black.bmp (750k) that you are using for the background.

Having every user download this file everytime they visit the page is causing tremendous bandwidth problems for the entire Internet. I'm surprised that NSCA or NSA or whatever intelligence agency you've got in the UK has not yet contacted you.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 20:35:28 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Roger E. Drek
Subject: Re: To: Sir D - did you get my email? IMPORTANT
Message:
It's MI5 actually. I didn't realise that file was so big. I was just experimenting. Now I know how to bring the Internet to its knees I'll just sit back and decide what terms I will accept to not wreck the system. Used bank notes are preferable plus gold ingots and diamonds. I'll also accept women.

I might have your email waiting on my other IP.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 09:47:38 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: The eclipse: a premie predicts !!
Message:
Un-fucking-believable! Has JC lost it? Or is this one hell of a money making scam!!

John.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 09:17:34 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: Marianne
Subject: My Magnificent Myth Making Mouth
Message:
My Magnificent Myth Making Mouth.

Every Perfect Master, Avatar, Christ-type dude, needs a mythology to support the position. For followers of Maharaji, these myths are known as ‘Darshan Stories’. Jesus turned water into wine. Followers of Maharaji have to be satisfied with turning ordinary, mundane incidents, into cosmic events.

Darshan stories work on two levels, the worldly and the cosmic. The Master is at the centre of the story on both the worldly and spiritual level, and his divinity has to feature on two levels.

Because I spent lots of time around Maharaji, and have a big mouth, I became the source of many mini Maharaji myths. Understanding the ingredients of a good darshan story, I knew how to pitch them.

I’ll give you an example.

About sixteen years ago I was the personal tutor to Maharaji and Marolyn’s children. I did this, on and off, for a two or three years. Maharaji occasionally came into the classroom to see how things were going, but rarely made any suggestions about what I should do. He was probably happy it wasn’t a complete disaster and decided to leave well alone.

Marolyn had a more direct interest in what was going on and was a more frequent visitor to the classroom. One day she told me Maharaji was interested in me using a computer with the children. After they went back to America, I did some research, contacted some experts, found some software and wrote a report, making suggestions about what we could do. I didn’t hear anything until the next time they came to England, and Maharaji had a chat with me.

At the time, very little was being done with computers and 6 year olds. Looking back at the conversation two things have changed. I no longer consider Maharaji is a Christ-type dude and we all know a hell of a lot more about computers.

I talked to him for about twenty minutes about computers and school. He told me he’d read the report but basically had his own ideas about what he wanted. I don’t know where he got the ideas from, but they turned out to be impractical, although the fact that he’s even thinking about how to use computers with his 6 year old daughter was very forward looking for the early 80s.

He wanted was a pad for her to input by handwriting. I suggested building a robot they were developing at MIT for the classroom and he told me it was already obsolete.

When I pressed him about where the hardware and software would come from he reeled off the names of a couple of programmers in the States.

We finished chatting and he left. I immediately jotted down everything I could remember of the conversation.

I never did use a computer with them, having fallen somewhere between my own primitive maths software on the first Apple, and Maharaji’s sci-fi vision of the future. The children did, however start using a computer with their tutor in the States, Susan, who eventually taught them full time.

So, what happened? It’s the early 80s. A rich father, who knows a bit about computers chats to his children’s tutor, who knows less about them.. Maybe the father read an article about handwritten input and threw it into the conversation to impress the teacher. It’s just a chat in the lunch break. It’s no big deal.

No big deal, that is, until it leaves Anth’s Magnificent Myth Making Mouth.

First there’s the yearning, that goes on and on, and finally, by his grace, just when you thought it was all over and you were spurned, is finally fulfilled beyond your wildest dreams. .

‘Marolyn told me that Maharaji wanted me to use computers with the children. I researched, wrote a report, he ignored it, started to make arrangements, he stopped them asked Marolyn, she said he’d talk to me. He didn’t. And I got really frustrated and pissed off, and confused. On and on went my misery, month after month. Then, just as I’m about to expire, into the room walks the Lord of the Universe and talks to me for half an hour about technology and the future and restoreth my soul.’

Second, there’s the ‘See his divinity, right before your eyes’ aspect.

‘I was talking from the present, but I had this feeling I was communicating with a being from far in the future. He was trying to explain this stuff that was really simple for him, but really complicated for me. It was like he could see what was to come and was explaining it to me, down here on earth. It was incredible, there’s this robot that they’re making at MIT, and to him, it’s obsolete already. He’s got these programmers in the States, and they’re going to make this pad… I felt like I was on a beach of precious jewels. My pockets were full, so were my arms. I just couldn’t take any more. It was indescribably cosmic.’

Then there’s the lesson.

‘It’s amazing. I went to all the people in the country who are using computers with young children. I got the software. Wrote a report. Became an expert. Wrote in magazines. Made recommendations. He took no notice. I arranged for a computer. He told me not to. Then there’s Susan, in America, she knows nothing about technology, and he just walks into the classroom with a computer and tells her what to do with it. So, the lesson is, go to Him with an empty mind/heart/wallet/bucket whatever, and he will fill it. Go to him ‘full’ and there’s no room for his wisdom/grace/love whatever.’

You can’t turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse, but you can make up a myth, and it becomesb a magical sow’s ear.

Anth the Myth in His Own Lunchbreak.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 20:20:32 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: AJW
Subject: Anth, you bastard!
Message:
You tell it so well it turns me green. (Roger **best of ** ?)

Your three points are well-oberved and universal to darshan-type stories: the yearning, the see-his-divinty and the lesson. Truly inspired and deserves some sort of permanent web-presence.

I realise Catweasel has since put a downer on things by suggesting you are bit of an untrustworthy dude, but I reckon you might be onto something here...

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 05:33:40 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: Trust me Nigel.
Message:
Hi Nigel,

Me? Untrustworthy? My Criminal Record speaks for itself.

Anth (I'll pay you back next week, honest.)

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 10:46:34 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Hey, that's great. Can I have one?
Message:
Anth,

Maybe you could set up a stand near Hyde Park on Sundays doing myths for a few quid each (what's a quid?). That was neat.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 15:52:55 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Hey, that's great. Can I have one?
Message:
'(what's a quid?)', a small ocean dwelling creature similar to an octopus! :) I may not be just any kind of scientist but I am a biologist apparently! :)

Hey Anth,
That was a great story. Was it a drip at all or just in the service of the Lord!
Love,
Robyn

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 16:07:43 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Everybody wants an Angel.
Message:
Hi Robyn,

How's life in the woods?

A quid is a pound, which is worth about $1.60 I think.

It wasn't a drip. I was gungho. My myth making came quite naturally. Being half Irish, I find it easy to spin a tale, and after hours of satsang and story telling, you get a feel for what the audience want. Beleive me, people want myths.

During the Glastonbury rock festival of 1971, one afternoon, this rainbow type thing appeared floating in the air, next to the stage. The MC noticed all the audience weren't looking at him, he turned and saw it too, then started talking to it, something like, 'I don't know what you are, an angel or something...'

Anyway, years later, I was interviewed for a magazine about the festival. I mentioned this 'angel' phenomena and was amazed at the interest. Everybody really wanted it to be an angel. I thought about it, scientist that I am, and realised, because the stage was covered with relective aliminium, with holes punched out, what we were seeing was a prism. I've since been interviewed twice more about the 'Glastonbury Angel' and they really don't want to know about the prismatic effect.

Everybody wants an angel.

Anth (Wants an Angel too.)

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 18:49:26 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Everybody wants an Angel.
Message:
Dear Anth,
Life in the woods is great. We are in a sever drought but there is still a good amount of water in the creek I love and have spent many hours their basking in the sun. Ahhhh, I love summer. :)
Thanks for the story. I am a story teller also. I remember in 10th grade I use to do these little preformances for my history class. I don't remember how it started but the teacher would usually suggest it.
I didn't know what a quid was worth but I did know it was money! :)
I had a 'day time' vision a few years ago while driving through town at 5pm. There was a traffic jam as it relates to small towns and I 'saw' a pinkish blue 'jetstream' of energy in the sky, not looking up at the sky but the sky in my minds eye or whatever. I just wrote this story to Jim but I think you were away. Another thing about me, I retell the stories over and over. :) There came an angle into the picture and she was floating on her back, her head, arms, legs and long gown were reaching toward the ground but she was held attacked to the 'jet stream' by a shoot from the jet stream that connected to her heart. During this vision I had to fight with myself to not assume the position of the angel. It was very hard not to and I did take it as far as I could without loosing awarness to the traffic flow and tried to not look like a nut to the other drivers.
Maybe that's why I'm a goddess now! :)
Hope you had a lovely vacation in the country as well.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 06:39:26 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Angels on Broadway
Message:
Hi Robyn,

I'm still on holiday on the cliffs in Corwall. Yesterday it rained all day, so I splurged myself all over the forum again, as well as burrowing through my latest discovery of a brilliant writer, Damon Runyon. Ever come across him. He does brilliant short stories, set in NewYork in the early 30s.

Today, the sun is out, so I won't be splurging so much.

Anth the Pretty Vacant (But not so pretty nowadays)

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 18:48:19 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Angels on Broadway
Message:
Dear Anth,
Glad the sun was out today, never heard of Damon Runyon but I added his name to the names of all the authors, book, and musicians that I have come across here. I will have a full retirement! :)
You come across pretty enough dear, beautiful in fact. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 05:35:38 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Ahhh Robyn
Message:
You say such lovely things.

Trouble is, I'll have to stop deprogramming my wife, in case she comes on the Forum and finds me cyber-flirting.

Anth the Trustworthy.

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 06:12:08 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Ahhh Robyn
Message:
Dear Anth,
Please don't stop deprogramming your wife. I can't wait to hopefully 'meet' here here someday. :) It isn't flirting anyway, just a tad maybe but all quite innocent. I think finding good people here just goes beyond looks, or before being influenced by them anyway.
I love the fact that you are happily married.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 06:21:55 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Er Hum.. Robyn
Message:
(Cough, splutter), Why, of course Robyn, (cough, hum and har) yes, naturally, (murmer mutter, clears throat)

Gosh, is that the time, I'd better be going.

(Coming darling, just finishing my accounts on the computer)

Er...Well...Maybe we'll bump into each other again, on another Forum one day...

Anth the Beetroot.

(PS do you still want that photo of me in drag?)

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Date: Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 09:28:56 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Er Hum.. Robyn
Message:
Dear Anth,
'do you still want that photo of me in drag?'
Well sure I do! :) Then I'll know what a beauty you really are. :)
You just wait until your wife and I start talking...then I'll find out all your less than flattering traits! :)
Love ya anyway,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 11:38:29 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: Re:
To: Jim
Subject: Not necessary Jim
Message:
Hi Jim,

You don't need one. You're already a legend in your own lunchtime, almost attaining 'Antichrist' status in the eyes of the Happy Clappers.

Good to see you back.

Anth the keeps mything the point.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 10:50:30 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Re: Motor Mouth, the true Confessions thereof!!!!
Message:
Cat,

I interpreted this post completely differently than you did.
I think Anth is saying that when he was around Mahraji, he actually BELIEVED the story the second way that he printed it (with the Lord, etc.) Since he believed that to be what really happened (truth) at the time, that is the way he related the story to others--from his place of belief.

Now, he sees that the events transpired in a different way. Now he tells the story as he sees it from a non- believer's perspective. What he thought to be truth, he now considers a myth. He is taking some responsibility for sharing that story (now considered by him to be a myth) with others.

I don't think he purposely mislead people at the time.

Anth, is this wrong?

Listen, cat, your reading here and participating here, so you are part of the 'this lot of minds' here that you accused Anth of fucking with. Why do you continue to stay here and read if you don't like it? Again, what is the point of it all?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 08:11:01 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Damage? How?
Message:
How can you even say that Anth caused Mahararji (your quote here) 'in-estimable damage'? Here's the story again:

'It’s amazing. I went to all the people in the country who are using computers with young children. I got the software. Wrote a report. Became an expert. Wrote in magazines. Made recommendations. He took no notice. I arranged for a computer. He told me not to. Then there’s Susan, in America, she knows nothing about technology, and he just walks into the classroom with a computer and tells her what to do with it. So, the lesson is, go to Him with an empty mind/heart/wallet/bucket whatever, and he will fill it. Go to him ‘full’ and there’s no room for his wisdom/grace/love whatever.’

That was extrememly complitmentary to M!! It put him in the best possible light. It made him THE MASTER. What higher compliment could be paid him? Again, I ask you how was this damaging? Again, at the time, it was Anth's perception, which I add, was formed based on actual teachings of Maharaji, such as 'go to him with an empty mind/heart to be filled.'

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 10:04:01 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Re: Damage? How?
Message:
Anth bullshited about the eventual outcome to prop up his own inflated ego amongst his peer group. He's still doing it
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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 20:48:11 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Re: Damage? How?
Message:
You didn't answer my question. Assuming Anth did bullshit, (which we don't agree about, but putting that aside) how did that damage Maharaji?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 06:57:06 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Cat, apology no.2 please.
Message:
Cat,

So where did I lie, lie, lie?

Quote me.

If not apologise premie-ji.

Anth the Truthful

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 11:35:10 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: That's Right VP
Message:
Hi VP,

That's exactly how I meant it. I was quite sincere at the time. It's the 'multiply everything by infinity factor', when God Almighty has come down from heaven, you put your foot flat on the 'blind faith' pedal, and start beleiving all sorts of shit.

Take care

Anth the Misunderstood.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 19, 1999 at 07:09:39 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Stick around Cat.
Message:
I don't get it Cat.

You totally misunderstand something I wrote. Someone points out your misunderstanding and you start screaming 'It's all Lies Anway'. Hmmmmmn.

As I said above, when you call someone a liar, it's usual to state the lie too. So, what's my lie Cat?

Stick around. It's good for the waverers and lurkers to watch you premies crumble into drivel, evasion and mindless abuse when your half-arsed cult values are challenged.

Anth the Straight.

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 19:01:15 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Thanks, Anth
Message:
Anth: I see you took me up on my request for another story. Many thanks. I understood its tone and import completely. Premies would and apparently did take it at face value. Their loss.

You Brits seem to be the source of almost all humor (you too Drek) and witty asides on the forum these days. I chortled over the satsang thread. Keep it coming!

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 09:14:26 (EDT)
From: MRH
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Soul rush
Message:
I enjoyed reading Sophie's book 'soul rush'.
Unfortunately the story ends in '76.

Is there any other / similar book available with an update covering '77 until today ?

regards, MRH

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 15:02:22 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: MRH
Subject: Re: Soul rush
Message:
Hi MRH! Welcome to the Forum. As far as I know, there is no other book such as Soul Rush which covers the following years. Did you read the chapters posted on Jean Michel's site? If so, his site contains much more information about the history of DLM & EV. Have you read the Journeys at the www.ex-premie.org site? That's another source of recent historical information. You could also take a look at the House of Maharaji Drek, mentioned at the top of this site. The Best of Forum portion of the site has lots of interesting historical information.

How did you find the site? When did you receive K? When did you become an ex?

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 10:52:46 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: MRH
Subject: Yes: Soul Crush (nt)
Message:
nt
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