Deputy Dog -:- On second thought.... -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 11:04:10 (EDT)

__ Runamok -:- Re: On second thought.... -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:11:21 (EDT)

__ JW -:- Re: On second thought.... -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 13:43:30 (EDT)

__ URL -:- Re: On second thought.... -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 11:56:44 (EDT)

__ __ AJW -:- Which group are you in URL? -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 15:10:07 (EDT)

__ __ Cap'n Dave -:- Re: On second thought.... -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 21:28:50 (EDT)

__ __ barney -:- Staaaay, stay a little longer -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:14:22 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- DLM IS still alive -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 04:43:49 (EDT)

__ Liz -:- Re: DLM IS still alive -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:46:27 (EDT)

__ JW -:- DLM is EV -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 12:53:46 (EDT)

__ barney -:- What does it mean by foreign corporation? -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 04:57:07 (EDT)

__ __ JW -:- Foreign Corporation -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 12:44:59 (EDT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- How come -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 13:33:22 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ JW -:- Re: How come -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 18:22:40 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ barney -:- Malibu Marble Palace -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:40:38 (EDT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Re: What does it mean by foreign corporation? -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 05:00:15 (EDT)

friend of Joan A -:- M's first gay experience -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 21:09:38 (EDT)

__ JW -:- Give Me a Break -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 12:59:02 (EDT)

__ __ URL -:- Re: Give Me a Break -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 19:41:19 (EDT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- URL you're paranoid. -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 16:11:08 (EDT)

__ __ __ JW -:- Re: Give Me a Break -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 15:25:18 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: Give Me a Break -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 17:12:24 (EDT)

__ __ Marianne -:- Re: Give Me a Break -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 13:49:22 (EDT)

__ __ Joan Oral Apter -:- Re: Give Me a Break -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 13:10:00 (EDT)

__ __ __ JW -:- Re: Give Me a Break -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 13:16:33 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Liz -:- Re; Roll me Tonight (Ricola SB Rizla) -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 17:22:58 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ barney -:- Help, Rock Me Maharaji is stuck in my head -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:47:31 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- The Emporer was naked (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 16:25:30 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Re: Help, Rock Me Maharaji is stuck in my head -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 16:01:11 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ gmom -:- I missed you JW (OT) -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 14:46:54 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Not Disturbing, more 'Typical.' -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 17:11:48 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Liz -:- Re: Jagdeo's whereabouts) -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 17:28:47 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ gmom -:- Re: Jagdeo's whereabouts) -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 19:52:41 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- addy? -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 22:31:13 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gmommy -:- Re: addy? -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 23:43:47 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ say g-mom -:- are you australian? (nt) -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 21:27:09 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gmom -:- No, I am American (nt) -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 22:26:30 (EDT)

__ Sir Dave -:- Re: M's first gay experience -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 03:31:21 (EDT)

__ __ Runamok -:- Re: M's first gay experience -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:00:29 (EDT)

__ __ __ URL -:- I confess, I confess! -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 20:57:47 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Cap'n Dave -:- More thoughts from me -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 21:31:16 (EDT)

__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: M's first gay experience -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:12:56 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ barney -:- I contend that the Lord is still the Lord -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 16:32:38 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Re: M's first gay experience -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 16:11:37 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ barney -:- The Great Pyramid of Geezer Maharaji -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 16:45:16 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Re: The Great Pyramid of Geezer Maharaji -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 05:56:19 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ barney -:- EV is probably paying top dollar for security experts -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 14:39:52 (EDT)

__ __ Way -:- Joe Anctil -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 10:31:49 (EDT)

__ __ __ Liz -:- Re: Joe Anctil -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 17:35:05 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: Francisco -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 01:49:33 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Re: Francisco -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 16:49:34 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Way -:- Re: Joe Anctil -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 17:53:05 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Re: Joe Anctil -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 22:40:28 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ oral Apter -:- Re: Joe Anctil -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 01:02:10 (EDT)

__ __ __ barney -:- The link is dead. When did you see it? -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 16:51:34 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ barney -:- Never mind! Got to use the left frame and goto Notations -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 17:11:22 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Cap'n Dave -:- America - land of the free -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 21:01:18 (EDT)

phreak's dad -:- my son has been grounded -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:40:53 (EDT)

__ Ana -:- Is Phrack your son Phreak? -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 20:18:23 (EDT)

Gerry -:- We gotta problem... -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 14:17:46 (EDT)

__ CdM -:- Re: We gotta problem... -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 15:32:25 (EDT)

__ __ barney et al. -:- Phreak might, perhaps, be harmless -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:07:01 (EDT)

__ __ __ Know It All -:- Blocking request -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 20:07:29 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Semi-Nerd -:- Re: Blocking request -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 23:47:11 (EDT)

__ barney -:- DEFCON 4 downgraded to DEFCON 2 -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 14:51:38 (EDT)

__ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: DEFCON 4 downgraded to DEFCON 2 -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:07:05 (EDT)

__ __ __ barney -:- Dunno, he might be right -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:20:00 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Dunno, he might be right -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 19:07:41 (EDT)

__ __ gerry -:- Re: DEFCON 4 downgraded to DEFCON 2 -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 15:08:48 (EDT)

__ __ __ barney and the bomb squad -:- Where is the other bomb that he warned us off? (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 15:16:19 (EDT)

__ Capn Dave -:- You cannot be serious? -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 14:32:54 (EDT)

__ __ gerry -:- Re: You cannot be serious? -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 14:40:10 (EDT)

__ __ __ Gerry -:- Dave musta clicked on it... NT -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 14:50:53 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Stanley K. -:- Re: Dave musta clicked on it... NT -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 15:01:55 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Cap'n Dave -:- Re: Dave musta clicked on it - I did -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:47:49 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Dustin Hoffman -:- Like my 1995 bomb Outbreak? -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 19:05:44 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- Lords of the Universe(s) -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 12:59:49 (EDT)

__ Liz -:- Re: Lords of the Universe(s) -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 17:37:29 (EDT)

__ Satpal -:- Re: Lords of the Universe(s) -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 19:01:41 (EDT)

Jim -:- Forgive my skepticism, but .... -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 11:15:34 (EDT)

__ barney -:- Jim, you just don't understand accounting -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 19:40:44 (EDT)

Shp -:- Missing Links / re: bottom thread -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 09:42:17 (EDT)

__ Roger E. Drek -:- Shp, Shp, Shp? -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 17:32:19 (EDT)

__ __ Shp -:- Roger, over and out for now -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:06:04 (EDT)

__ __ __ Roger Torpedo Drek -:- Ok, Run Silent, Run Deep (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:22:49 (EDT)

__ __ Roger E. Drek -:- Short Addendum - Answering my own question -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 17:46:02 (EDT)

__ Jim -:- Shp, you're not just a liar -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 11:20:18 (EDT)

__ __ Shp -:- Re: Shp, you're not just a liar -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 15:02:01 (EDT)

Jim -:- Dog (whimper, slippers) -- repost -:- Tues, Sep 14, 1999 at 23:00:30 (EDT)

__ asshole -:- Re: Dog (whimper, slippers) -- repost -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 09:18:48 (EDT)

__ __ gerry -:- Re: Dog (whimper, slippers) -- repost -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 10:05:31 (EDT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- Better with a capital 'A'... -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 16:39:11 (EDT)

__ Deputy Dog -:- Jim, please I beg of you, get help! -:- Tues, Sep 14, 1999 at 23:40:12 (EDT)

__ __ Captain Dave -:- Re: Jim, please I beg of you, get help! -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 06:45:52 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Wow! Cat risks all his credibility! -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 10:50:09 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- The Cat has to go -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 13:23:48 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Dr. Roger E. Drek -:- Typical reaction due to overuse of amphetamines -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 19:19:26 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Hysteria and excessive laughter brought on by .... -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 10:55:53 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Drek -:- Earth to Cat, come in, please! -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 16:55:58 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: Earth to Cat, come in, please! -:- Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 19:06:52 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Catnip boy -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 12:38:18 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tha's All Folks!! -:- Re: Catnip boy -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 17:25:57 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- No treaty with whom? -:- Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 03:10:19 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Re: No treaty with whom? -:- Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 10:19:36 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- No purpose?! -:- Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 15:50:47 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Re: No purpose?! -:- Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 18:11:32 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- What a jerk -:- Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 11:37:17 (EDT)

__ __ Def Master DJ -:- Weak response -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 01:52:55 (EDT)

__ __ __ Doney -:- An Explanation -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:43:34 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Doney -:- Another Explanation -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:49:59 (EDT)

__ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Re: Jim, please I beg of you, get help! -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 10:45:38 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Jim, please I beg of you, get help! -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 10:55:58 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Re: Jim, please I beg of you, get help! -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 12:51:09 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Def Master DJ -:- Re: DP, please I beg of you, get some balls! -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 13:43:40 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- I remember a post by Scott T.. -:- Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 13:16:36 (EDT)

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 11:04:10 (EDT) From: Deputy Dog Email: None To: All Subject: On second thought.... Message:

I just re-read some of my posts with Jim to see who WON! For me, the most annoying posts were when Jim tried to manipulate me into saying that Maharaji is a coward. Such patent nonsense! How could a fearful, timid, nervous, and apprehensive person have spread Knowledge world-wide like Maharaji has done? That has required courage and vision. Going back over the postings I also couldn't help feeling that I was a criminal, on trial, being cross-examined. That's an unpleasant feeling and I think in the context of this site an inappropriate one. I'm sure Shp and Catweasel feel the same way. Is there anyone on this site who still values the experience of Knowledge, or are you all anti-Knowledge and anti-Maharaji? I thought this was a site created by people who had 'broken the jar of devotion' but still valued the 'trinket' of Knowledge. It would be nice to hear from Mark Appleman for example. Remember the Aesop's fable of the sun and the wind arguing to see who was the strongest? They saw a traveller walking along wearing a coat and agreed that they would have a contest, and the one who could get the traveller to take his coat off would win. The wind went first, but now matter how hard he blustered and beat on the guy, the guy just held onto his coat harder. When it was the sun's turn, he just came out, beamed down on the guy who eventually warmed up and took his coat off. So Jim you lost; the 'coat' is still on! Ironically your heavy-handed courtroom tactics have strengthened my resolve to hold onto Knowledge and respect M. Don't forget, there is no judge and jury here, and I've ruled in my favour. Shp and Catweasel, why not follow my example and leave this site? Give ex-premie.org a rest for a few months. Let these people talk to themselves for a while. Re-dedicate your life to the Spirit and see if it doesn't make you feel better. You've done your part, get a little R&R, stop and smell the roses, read a good book, relax. You are not going to change ole Cement Head and his relationship problems, and Maharaji is going to be criticised no matter what he does. You get your head above the crowd you are going to be criticised, it comes with the territory. One last thought Jim; I find atheists just as obnoxious as religious fanatics. You both have all the answers and nothing gets through. It's like trying to have a conversation with a tape recorder. That's why I'm agnostic. So goodbye! I'm outta here for good, I'm breaking free. P.S. If I offended anyone with my insults please blame Monty Python.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:11:21 (EDT) From: Runamok Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: Re: On second thought.... Message:

The ex-premie site used to warn premies, 'this site is for exes and it's your choice to hang around'. We don't have a site which is intended to be a functional meeting ground (and neither does Miragey, what a surprise) between exes and premies. I do meditate and a lot of people here do. I also don't agree with a lot of what Jim says (or how he says it). He doesn't represent anyone but himself. If you seriously seek dialogue minus the BS of the forum you can seek out individuals through email. But you haven't always been so ultra-sincere yourself. I won't say you're welcome here but no one will stop you, particularly if you are sincere and manage not to fall into totally myopic thinking. My own real point is that leaving Miragey isn't necessarily linked to this site. There are people who do not like the forum and have left for years. It's your own decision not anyone elses and not ultimately tied to anyone else, although it's nice to maintain some of the sense of community by having some type of meeting place.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 13:43:30 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: Re: On second thought.... Message:

How could a fearful, timid, nervous, and apprehensive person have spread Knowledge world-wide like Maharaji has done? That has required courage and vision. No it hasn't; it has required money, lots of money, and lots of people to perform labor for free, and, oh yes, a good act. When you are surrounded by people who take all the heat and you never have to, it's easy to be a coward and an exhibitionist at the same time. Hitler turned out to be pretty much a coward, if I recall -- chose suicide over facing the truth of his failures, and he conquered most of Europe. Is there anyone on this site who still values the experience of Knowledge, or are you all anti-Knowledge and anti-Maharaji? I think you better define your terms. What do you mean by 'knowledge?' If you mean the four meditation techniques, I believe there are quite a few ex-premies who value them, in the sense that they find meditation to be helpful in their lives. But if you mean the whole medieval religion that M created, using the techniques that are available other places as some kind of a proprietary means of showing you god, with Maharaji claiming at times to be god, and at all times to be responsible for any good experience you have, then I really do reject it, and I think most other ex-premies, who number in the 10s of thousands, reject it as well. I would also like to hear from Mark. I believe he is one person who thinks Maharaji is an outragious fraud, but he does like the meditation, or at least he hasn't, last I heard, given up on that, too. I think for me, if I wanted to do meditation, I would do some other techniques. For me, meditation using the techniques I was revealed as a premie is completely associated with Maharaji and his 'I-am-god' and 'you-need-my-grace' trip, which he drilled into us satsang, after satsang, after satsang for many years. How can you be a premie and an agnostic? That doesn't make any sense. As for your resolve to be a premie, the best of luck to you. We still have freedom of religion in this country, and there is no law against religious rip-off artists. Just look at Maharaji and at televangelists.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 11:56:44 (EDT) From: URL Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: Re: On second thought.... Message:

Good parting post DD. In tthe end you just end up spitting and fuming at the nonsense you so aptly described. Jim and others prowl the forum looking for premies to 'conquer' so they can slap each other on the back and claim victory amongst themselves -- whether they have truly conquered anyone or not. This of course helps give them purpose in what in most cases appears to be a pretty purposeless existence. So by debating with them you inadvertently perpetuate their foolishness. Better to 'break free' as you say, and leave them to their own devices.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 15:10:07 (EDT) From: AJW Email: None To: URL Subject: Which group are you in URL? Message:

Hi URL, Jim and his mates seem to be winning the battle. Here in the UK the official figures are, 40,000 received knowledge, 37,000 quit, out of the remaining 3000, there are 1,000 new premies, just passing through, (they won't stick around long, once they suss out what's happening). That leaves about 2,000, out of which I'd guess 1,500 are 'Happy Clappers' who'd be just as happy in any old cult, and the remaining 500 are old timers, still waiting for promotion, or a position. Which group are you in URL? Anth the Statistician.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 21:28:50 (EDT) From: Cap'n Dave Email: None To: URL Subject: Re: On second thought.... Message:

Words of wisdom there, URL. Did you get that from practising knowledge?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:14:22 (EDT) From: barney Email: None To: URL Subject: Staaaay, stay a little longer Message:

Oh, you silly dog! Knowledge is for lab rats. prowl the forum looking for premies to 'conquer' No, we have no such illusion that we will conquer the hardcore premies like yourselves. And I know that I should not give away our secret strategy, but the debates that take place here on the Ex-Premie Forum, IMHO, provide and excellent example of how flimsy premie cult-think is and how deeply indoctrinated and blinded one becomes while in Maharaji's cult. It's amazing to me to think of all the years trying to follow Maharaji and understand HIS Message. Sure, the basic simple message is a meditation experience and that all fine and dandy. But, really do an inventory of how twisty the trail is that HE has led you down for years and years. His speeches are nearly incoherent as he rambles on and on, hither and fro. And in the kinder and gentler world of today's Knowledge you have to sit through videos listening to his totally lame poetry read by himself in his newly acquired poety voice versus his screechy voice that voice training is toning down. And it's just so beautiful! Forget it! The dude is naked! God, I was so tired of going along with the crowd and constantly lying to myself. Hell, that's what it is. From the very beginning of getting into the Maharaji trip I was constantly lying to myself, saying that I have to sweep this or that under the carpet in order to get to the top of this mountain. Leave no room for doubt. Boring and repetitive as they might be, the debates are available to the general public and to lurkers who never say a single word. To the reasonable person, say a uninterested third party, it must appear obvious that you premies squirm around like flubber when trapped and cornered in your own lies and doublespeak. And then you scurry like rats back into your holes to escape the truth and reality that you are in a cult that has brainwashed and programmed your mind regardless of whatever potential benefits that meditation may bring. Ultimately, the Ex-Premie website and other websites and this public forum serve as a warning sign to those who might be contemplating getting into Maharaji's cult. These websites also serve as an Exit sign for those in the cult. We very much appreciate your participation at the Ex-Premie Forum and hope that you will return as often as you like. Fear not, we really care not whether we win you over to our side as this is strictly an academic exercise.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 04:43:49 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: All Subject: DLM IS still alive Message:

Here is a copy of the official documents, now available ONLINE for anybody to read: EV actually IS DLM I guess EV's lawyers will be responsible for this....

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:46:27 (EDT) From: Liz Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Re: DLM IS still alive Message:

Dear JM, Interesting news today. I've just learnt the city in which Jagdeo is residing. Love, Liz

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 12:53:46 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: DLM is EV Message:

Thanks JM: To make it easy to confirm that Elan Vital is nothing more than Divine Light Mission with a name change, anyone can look under the 'History' section and the transactions dated 2/20/86 on the bottom of page 2 and the top of page 3 of the corporate search document that JM posted.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 04:57:07 (EDT) From: barney Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: What does it mean by foreign corporation? Message:

Does the statement foreign corporation mean that DLM/EV is foreign like outside the U.S. or does it mean that it, as originally registered in Colorado, is foreign to California?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 12:44:59 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: barney Subject: Foreign Corporation Message:

Hi Barney: I sent those documents to JM. They are the result of a corporate search I did with the Secretary of State in California. 'Foreign Corporation' means that Divine Light Mission, which later had its name changed to Elan Vital, is 'foreign' to California. It is a Colorado corporation, so California designates it as 'foreign.' But DLM/EV has to report to the California Secretary of state is it does any business or has any operations in California. Since the headquarters is in good old Malibu, they obviously have to report. So, it's definitely a US corporation, incorporated in Colorado. Haven't been around much lately; funny how the rest of your life can interfere with these things; hope all is going well with everyone, and Jai Satchitanand. :::))) Also, JM: thanks for all your good work.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 13:33:22 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JW Subject: How come Message:

that DLM's still alive, and based in Malibu ? Does it own some properties, like the malibu residence? Could this be possible ? Has anybody done some research on the land's ownership?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 18:22:40 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Re: How come Message:

I doubt DLM/EV owns much, if any, property. I think Maharaji has gotten into the shell corporation business and likely the real estate is owned by other entities. Frankly, I think they kept DLM and just changed the name to 'Elan Vital' because it was easy. Just notify all the states of a name change, and you don't have to form a new corporation. Since, was we all know, Elan Vital IS Divine Light Mission, that certainly makes sense. I doubt anyone thought that Elan Vital, Glen Whittaker, anyone else, would make the ridiculous and entirely false argument that Elan Vital and Divine Light Mission have nothing to do with each other. All the premies and ex-premies, at least anyone who was around in the 80s and before, knows for a fact that that's a bald-faced lie.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:40:38 (EDT) From: barney Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Malibu Marble Palace Message:

I recall that there was some information posted about the Malibu Marble Palace. It will be in the Forum III archives.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 05:00:15 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: barney Subject: Re: What does it mean by foreign corporation? Message:

These are the raw documents, as someone's just send them to me. I'd like to have some comments added on the page. And feel free to lift them from my website and have them on yours. I can email you better pictures, because I've reduced the originals a bit to avoid upload delays.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 21:09:38 (EDT) From: friend of Joan A Email: None To: All Subject: M's first gay experience Message:

When M first came to california, he stayed at a house that was owned and lived in by a rich guy that was a friend of a premie. One day, m came walking through the living room and he stopped in his tracks, he saw two guys haveing sex and some amount of time went by when Joan A came strolling by and escorted M away and said M said 'what are they doing?' and Joan said 'don't worry about it.' M said in the eighties that he never should have seen that and that he was 'still worried about it'. Just thought I'd bring the subject back to M. You can call Joan for confirmation. Her gasp will tell it all.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 12:59:02 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: friend of Joan A Subject: Give Me a Break Message:

M said in the eighties that he never should have seen that and that he was 'still worried about it'. Well, apparently it didn't worry him enough to cause him to give up sex, including sex with numerous women over the years other than his wife. Frankly, I think there are a number of other, bigger, problems that M has that he should be 'worried' about, like the fact that he is a fraud, has ripped off thousands of people, is a greedy charlatan and has no honesty or integrity whatsoever. Those are bigger worries for the guy formerly known as the Lord of the Universe than the fact that he saw somebody having sex. I'll have to say, though, I do feel sorry for him that he is 'worried.' It troubles me immensely.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 19:41:19 (EDT) From: URL Email: None To: JW Subject: Re: Give Me a Break Message:

Same old JW. In your litany of accusations against Maharaji you reminded me of Malaysian Prime Minsister Mahatir's way of dealing with one of his main opposition member, Anwar Ibrahim. He is curently on trial on trumped up charges of sodomy, which is used among other things to assassinate his character and erode his support. Thou doth allege way too much JW.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 16:11:08 (EDT) From: AJW Email: None To: URL Subject: URL you're paranoid. Message:

URL, So what you're saying here is, somebody telling you that Maharaji saw a couple having sex is an accusation? An accusation of what? And somehow, this statement is meant to be character assination. What the hell are you talking about URL. 'I accuse you of seeing two people having sex'. And this is somehow supposed to be character assasination. URL, get real. This is nothing. You're paranoid. Get under your blanket and lick some snot toe kisser. Then you'll become centred and transcend this maya. Anth the Ain't kissing the sweaty lotus feet any more.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 15:25:18 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: URL Subject: Re: Give Me a Break Message:

I'm not surprised you don't like Maharaji being held to any standard whatsoever. This is the nature of those in a cult -- a complete inability to see the cult leader with any form of objectivity or to hold him responsible for anything-- DUH. I doubt anyone is surprised that you do the same.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 17:12:24 (EDT) From: URL Email: None To: JW Subject: Re: Give Me a Break Message:

JW you really do allege too much. You rush far too quickly to some pat accusation like, 'Because you're in a cult you blah, blah, blah....'. For God's sake try to think for yourself and come up with a fresh argument. And save your anti-cult cult speak for get-togethers with your forum buddies.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 13:49:22 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: JW Subject: Re: Give Me a Break Message:

JW: I was waiting for you to say something about that post. Thanks for chiming in. Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 13:10:00 (EDT) From: Joan Oral Apter Email: None To: JW Subject: Re: Give Me a Break Message:

I think it means he has gay fantasies, and with his valet, probably some experiences.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 13:16:33 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: Joan Oral Apter Subject: Re: Give Me a Break Message:

I think it means he has gay fantasies, and with his valet, probably some experiences. Well first of all, regarding those experinces: YUCK, and secondly, I wonder if he ever got any therapy to deal with his confusion. Also, M wouldn't have to limit his experiences to his valet only. I agree with Way that many ostensibly straight male premies fawned over Maharaji in a fashion that can only be described as sexual. And don't get me started on the sexual overtones and innuendos of Mahararj's 'fat-naked-dancing' exhibitions of the 70s and 80s. The music was pretty suggestive too: 'Rock me Maharaji and roll me tonight' being one of the more obvious.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 17:22:58 (EDT) From: Liz Email: None To: JW Subject: Re; Roll me Tonight (Ricola SB Rizla) Message:

Dear J.W. I've always thought one of out great poets could do a number on Rock Me Miraji, Roll me Tonight. Larkin, and all the other great poets.... please, please please. Love, Liz

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:47:31 (EDT) From: barney Email: None To: JW Subject: Help, Rock Me Maharaji is stuck in my head Message:

Greetings JW! Rock Me Maharaji is stuck in my head now. Fortunately, when I belting the lyrics out I'm doing them Jerry Lewis style. Speaking of sexual! I met Phil Riff in Denver. Later I heard that at some Chicago ashram after satsang he took off his clothes and sat naked in the Maharaji chair and refused to leave. Eventually, Chicago's finest were called in to remedy the situation. I can picture all the premies meditating in their rooms as Maharaji is manifesting himself in all his glory.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 16:25:30 (EDT) From: AJW Email: None To: barney Subject: The Emporer was naked (nt) Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 16:01:11 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: barney Subject: Re: Help, Rock Me Maharaji is stuck in my head Message:

Phill Riff, I recall that name from my Chicago days, but I can't place a face on it. Well, it was 20 years ago, so I guess that's to be expected. There a number of notorious examples of premies taking their clothes off and running towards the stage at programs. One premie I knew in particular, did it at a program in Miami. Afterwards, she said she did it because she wanted to give herself 'completely' to Maharaji. Now, she was definitely nuts, but Maharaji also odefinitely encouraged the extreme behaviour by constantly demanding total dedication and 'surrender.'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 14:46:54 (EDT) From: gmom Email: None To: JW Subject: I missed you JW (OT) Message:

Have you read the thread ( way down if you press see all 100) where Glenn Whitaker writes back to Anth? It is a truly disturbing letter.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 17:11:48 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: gmom Subject: Not Disturbing, more 'Typical.' Message:

Hi gmom, how are you doing? Thanks for mentioning that post. I went down and read it. It is disturbing, maybe the better word is 'typical.' I doubt very much that Glenn, being the good cult-member that he is, trying valiantly to protect his master at all costs, would delve too deeply into an 'investigation' of child sexual abuse in Divine Light Mission/Elan Vital. For example, I doubt very much that he talked to those American DLM mucky-mucks to whom you reported Jagdeo's sexual molestations. And as I said earlier, Glenn is WAY TOO chickenshit to EVER act his lord and master if he might have known about Jagdeo's actions and did nothing about it, except maybe to aid and abet Jagdeo by sending him to new, victim-rich environments. No, I doubt Glen would risk his lord's wrath and ever ask him such a question. Much easier to write a nice cover letter saying nobody knows anything about it. Like I said: 'typical.'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 17:28:47 (EDT) From: Liz Email: None To: gmom Subject: Re: Jagdeo's whereabouts) Message:

Dear Gmom, I would like to email you. Today someone by pure coincidence told me of Jagdeos whereabouts - the city at least. I'm doing my best to find out more detailed information. The thing that upsets me is if this 'person' knows there is a very good chance that Glen probably knows as well. I hope this information is true for yours and the other sexual abuse victims sakes. love, Liz

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 19:52:41 (EDT) From: gmom Email: None To: Liz Subject: Re: Jagdeo's whereabouts) Message:

Hi Liz, Lots of people have my email, Marianne, Anth, JW, Katie, Brian, Jim, Robyn, Drek, and JM all do. If you know one of their emails maybe they can forward it? I will write you back with the addy. gmom

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 22:31:13 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: gmom Subject: addy? Message:

Baby talk going on in your household by chance, gmom?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 23:43:47 (EDT) From: Gmommy Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: addy? Message:

Yes and I have a net friend who uses addy and puter all the time in her emails! Better than friends who use That ____ and gratitude in every senstense though

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 21:27:09 (EDT) From: say g-mom Email: None To: gmom Subject: are you australian? (nt) Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 22:26:30 (EDT) From: gmom Email: None To: say g-mom Subject: No, I am American (nt) Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 03:31:21 (EDT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: friend of Joan A Subject: Re: M's first gay experience Message:

The premies who knew Maharaji personally and who clearly knew that he wasn't the Lord, do have a lot to answer for. Because they perpetrated the myth that Maharaji was the Lord to all the naive, unsuspecting young premies like myself (back then) and a lot of us sacrificed our lives to him, only because we thought he was the Lord. I'd say that the premies who were party to the 'Maharaji is the Lord' deception, share equal responsibity with Maharaji for the spreading of the untruth.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:00:29 (EDT) From: Runamok Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Re: M's first gay experience Message:

I'd say you're on the right track here, but I assume you are talking about people like Apter who functioned more like propaganda ministers, disseminating this 'gospel' to the masses. But then how does this care compare with the premies who insist on hanging out on F4 and AG? I'd have to say they are generally more victims than perpetrators.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 20:57:47 (EDT) From: URL Email: None To: Runamok Subject: I confess, I confess! Message:

Yes, yes we are perpetrators, come to thwart the efforts of the ex-premie crusade so our master plan is not endangered to ensnare the souls of the innocent and unsuspecting of the world to slavically watch videos and commit their life's savings that they would have left for their sexually abused children but instead pad the bank account of our leader so he can feed his appetite for fast cars and bisexual liaisons as he hops around the world in his luxury jet to his guilded mansions serviced by the many drones who have been duped into thinking he has something enlightening to say but it's really done with smoke and mirrors. Ok so now you know.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 21:31:16 (EDT) From: Cap'n Dave Email: None To: URL Subject: More thoughts from me Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 15:12:56 (EDT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Re: M's first gay experience Message:

Yes, it was premies of that ilk that I had in mind. Those who were close enough to him to have known that he wasn't divine, the Lord etc but who gave the message out that he was. Of course, premies who stay with Maharaji these days when they know he's not the Lord - well that's their choice although perhaps there are still some who see him as the Lord. But and it's a very big but, the premies who know Maharaji's not the Lord don't now pretend he is, so at least that deception isn't still going. I often wonder what premies like Glen Whittaker who was very vocal in 'calling people to serve the Lord' back in the seventies; I often wonder how such people can now pretend that such things never happened. What do they expect ex-premies to think about their change of mind?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 16:32:38 (EDT) From: barney Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: I contend that the Lord is still the Lord Message:

Having gotten out of the cult recently, it is clear that the Lord of the Universe message has been altered for public consumption for the purpose of luring and ensnaring new recruits. However, privately amongst premie in the know I do not believe that anything has really changed except that premies might see their Lord in a more realistic human light. I serious that privately amongst the in-the-know crowd that there is ever any admonishment when referring to Maharaji as LOTU. Also, consider that videos are broken up into 3 or 4 categories: 1. Introductory videos 2. Intro for people wanting to learn more 3. Aspirant videos 4. Videos for Persons With Knowledge (PWK) only The PWK only videos include videos from India where Maharaji definitely resorts to the hardcore LOTU satsang. Such videos are definitely out of bounds for aspirants and the public. I wonder if you can just buy those from Visions?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 16:11:37 (EDT) From: Runamok Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Re: M's first gay experience Message:

It's the same thing. Miragey has, either over the table or under, helped bigwigs with jobs or connections, taking care of propaganda ministers who held firm materially. And those people are really culpable. People who come around here have got to be in the back row in terms of their importance, generally.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 16:45:16 (EDT) From: barney Email: None To: Runamok Subject: The Great Pyramid of Geezer Maharaji Message:

Yes, it is interesting to see how the VIPs are taken care of. Many seem to have created their own little companies as organizational consultants, motivational speakers or board directors. And it would appear that some of their clients are companies owned and operated by other VIPs. Also, it was interesting to see that over on ELK a statement they made a statement saying that contributions were covering expenses. I would ask again how much does it really cost to run a website if the labor was provided by volunteers? Answer: not that much that someone like Jon Cainer, no longer involved, with even a moderate income could generously cover. Therefore, pure speculation might indicate that the ELK founders are being paid for their service and are operating under the benevolent umbrella of the LOTU. As with any pyramid scheme it is essential to bring in new suckers to expand the base in order for the top to go even higher. Money for nothing and chicks for free.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 05:56:19 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: barney Subject: Re: The Great Pyramid of Geezer Maharaji Message:

One thing you might forget: Rawat and all his friends are very paranoid (and after money), and it's very likely that they don't host their site on any regular company's server. Thus the expenses. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some pam has made a company for that very purpose, and hosting dlm's - oooops ev's websites. And maybe paying somebody to take care of it. Maybe even Visions and EV are paying that company, and the benefits are gifted to the Rawat, as usual. Who's hosting Visions' website?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 14:39:52 (EDT) From: barney Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: EV is probably paying top dollar for security experts Message:

Yes, J-M, you are probably correct about EV having their own servers. I think some outfit on Kaman (sp) Rd. in Malibu. I would guess that they are paying top dollar for outside experts on Internet security to ensure the sites do not get hacked.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 10:31:49 (EDT) From: Way Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Joe Anctil Message:

After reading the gay story I was reminded of Joe Anctil, the MC at many of the earlier programs. I did a search for his name and came up with a Joe Anctil who works for ATI Career Training Center in Miami. There is a photo of this Joe at www.aticareertraining.com/notation.htm. He is the right age and the right body size, and the city is a match. Can anyone tell if this is the same Joe? It was once reported in the Divine Times that Joe Anctil was ill in the hospital and received a visit and a card from Rawat. The card said 'Could have been worse, you could have been pregnant.' Cute. I was always a bit perplexed by the male gopis in my community. There was one particularly masculine straight male who had no qualms about acting all aflutter over Rawat's beauty.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 17:35:05 (EDT) From: Liz Email: None To: Way Subject: Re: Joe Anctil Message:

Dear Way, I've heard the name. Who was he - was he an Instructor? At the same time as I found out some information of Jagdeo's whereabouts I also was told of a Mahatma Francisco who died of aids. I'm going to put him on the Mahatma list although I never met or heard of him. anyone else heard of him? Love, Liz

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 01:49:33 (EDT) From: Jethro Email: None To: Liz Subject: Re: Francisco Message:

Francisco was an instructor from a South American country(or maybe portugal or spain). Personally I found him very uninspiring. He demonstrated the premie spiritual ego when he said 'I am very sorry, but I see the whole world as full of fake satsang, service and meditation'. That's all I remember about him except that he had a goatee(sp?) beard ,,,and I don't miss him and his club. Jethro

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 16:49:34 (EDT) From: AJW Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Re: Francisco Message:

Hi Jeth', I think it was Francisco who was rounded up in Chile by the military government sometime in the 70s, after Allende was overthrown by Coca Cola and the CIA. The new government considered any meeting of over 4 people a threat to national security, and anyone addressing such a meeting as a subversive who should be locked up. Francisco came into this category. Anyway, some left wing writer mentioned him in a book about the period. It's all a bit vague now, but I remember reading the extract about 20 years ago in some premie/pravda type magazine. Anth the Ricolabrain. Jeth' I've had to bring my birthday party forward a day, from Saturday the 9th to Friday the 8th. I'll email you and ham tomorrow.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 17:53:05 (EDT) From: Way Email: None To: Liz Subject: Re: Joe Anctil Message:

Liz, All I know about Joe Anctil is that he was the 'master of ceremonies' at many programs in the late 70's. He was not an initiator. I imagine he would have some behind-the-scenes stories to tell.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 22:40:28 (EDT) From: Runamok Email: None To: Way Subject: Re: Joe Anctil Message:

He was pubilc relations, media relations and was rumored to be gay, hence the 'not pregnant' gag.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 01:02:10 (EDT) From: oral Apter Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Re: Joe Anctil Message:

In 79 m wanted a transportation company and so some premies including J anctil started it and ran it Lots of free ashram labor and drivers and workers. As m was leaving miami for good he saw anctil and said 'joe where have youbeen? I could have really used you' This put joe in a real spot because he felt bad and confused because surely m knew about his involvement with the transport outfit and could have contacted him anytime. But, as ususal, m couldnt allow anyone to feel good about thier condition. His domination revolved around keeping people dangleing on needing and uncertain about themselves

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 16:51:34 (EDT) From: barney Email: None To: Way Subject: The link is dead. When did you see it? Message:

Don't know if you screwed up on that link or what, but I'm getting a Not Found error. Did you view that recently? Can you verify the link that you typed in? Wonder if they removed it right quick or something?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 17:11:22 (EDT) From: barney Email: None To: barney Subject: Never mind! Got to use the left frame and goto Notations Message:

Try the attached link and use the frame in the left and select Notations/Newsletter Excerpts and then scroll down to almost the bottom. Looks like Joe Anctil. What's interesting about these kinds of training outfits is that they rely very heavily on having their students get financial aid through the quasi-government lending agencies. The bottom line then becomes how many students complete their course work and how many actually get a real job that enables them to pay back the loans. Not that this company isn't legit, but many are not. Seems appropriate that a premie with no real skills or training (maybe that isn't Joe Anctil) would get into this kind of business and sell more pie in the sky. And now that my blood is boiling! Let's talk about employment agencies and headhunters! Goddamn, blood sucking vampires! I worked as a contractor at a large concern in Southern California for almost 4 years. I had met my so-called manager at the contracting agency only once for the initial interview. For nearly 4 years these people earned a couple bucks an hour for every hour that I worked. www.aticareertraining.com

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 21:01:18 (EDT) From: Cap'n Dave Email: None To: barney Subject: America - land of the free Message:

That's capitalism for you. If you can't beat it, join it, I say.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:40:53 (EDT) From: phreak's dad Email: None To: All Subject: my son has been grounded Message:

Dear friends, I only just found out about my son's antics, and be assured he won't be posting again here without your invititation, and then no tricks. He is only 15 and thankfully has been spared the worst of my weird cult days, yet I think he is upset by it even so. He is a budding codeslinger and is desparate to get a brag so he can be jumped into cDc (a cybergang), but I made it very clear that this site is off limits. I set him a project by way of appeasing his behavior: get into m.org and configure all href links to lead to this site. If he does that, he can have his priveleges back. So that's it. I'm pissed at him, but I do love him, he just needs to redirect his energy. btw, the dos code he stole from me - don't use it, it is real and will kill your pc. The rest was geek crap. keep up the good work love to all

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 20:18:23 (EDT) From: Ana Email: None To: phreak's dad Subject: Is Phrack your son Phreak? Message:

;-) Now Phreak... don't be too hard on the boy. He's livening up the place. Ana

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 14:17:46 (EDT) From: Gerry Email: None To: All Subject: We gotta problem... Message:

Phreak is it's name. He's messing with the forum and has loaded another bomb. If you click on his email address in one of his posts to me, it wipes out your hard drive by reformatting it. He thinks he funny. I think he's a pest.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 15:32:25 (EDT) From: CdM Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Re: We gotta problem... Message:

Hi Gerry, I know that this sort of thing can be annoying and all, hey, that's how I got talking to the him a couple of days ago. The thing is I don't get a mallicious vibe of the guy. He just want's to show us all how cybernetically challenged we all are. He's making his prescence felt over on AG as well. But really I don't think there's much to panic over. Charlie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:07:01 (EDT) From: barney et al. Email: None To: CdM Subject: Phreak might, perhaps, be harmless Message:

Yup, I'm apparently more evil than the Phreak. And I have more powers than the Phreak. Just ask around. I've controlled email servers in foreign countries using my Palm Pilot. I've launched missles with my Amiga. Crashed department systems just by projecting my mind. (None of this is true.) Don't quite know what to make of Phreak. Said he was the child of someone with Knowledge. Hansi is that you? Again, normal use of your browser poses no threat to anyone here. If you want to play safe: Don't give Phreak your email address. Disable running Active-X controls in your browser especially if running Microsoft IE 5 with Office 98 or is that Office 97 or Office 2000. Disable Java Don't open any links that Phreak might attach. When reading your mail do not open any mail from unknown senders if that mail contains an attachment. When reading mail do not run attachments that are executables. Install latest patches of your browser and OS software (Windows, typically.) Install MS Word security patches that warn and prompt before running macros. Probably too late now, but next time you do a clean install of Windows put Windows in some other folder besides the default. For example, 'win_nt or win_95 or win_98 or win_2000'. Many macros and viruses will assume that your OS is in a known folder and will try to run executables from there. The change from the default folder name will usually avoid this problem. Warning, do not change the name of your Windows folder via the explorer. This only works when installing Windows or possibly tweaking the registry and you don't want to go there. We now return you to your normal progamming.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 20:07:29 (EDT) From: Know It All Email: None To: Forum Administrator Subject: Blocking request Message:

Anyone who is potentially screwing around with our hard drives should be banned. I am not joking about this.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 23:47:11 (EDT) From: Semi-Nerd Email: None To: Know It All Subject: Re: Blocking request Message:

I don't know it all, Know It All, but I doubt there's any hyperlink commands that are going to allow somebody to link to any executable files that are going to damage your computer. That's how he was able to show you a listing of the root directory of your computer. However, if there are, I'm sure our little terrorist, the Phreak, knows about them. Still, he did give ample warning not to run the debug command that will screw up your boot sector (I think that's what it was) so I doubt he's really interested in causing harm.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 14:51:38 (EDT) From: barney Email: None To: Gerry Subject: DEFCON 4 downgraded to DEFCON 2 Message:

Gerry, Did you run it? I had Mikey run it and he liked it. Actually, I ran it. No, I'm not stupid, but there is no executable called hdformat which he was trying to or-bar in there for the purpose of scaring people. Technically or theoretically, there is no way that by merely browsing should you get into much trouble. Also should be the same with clicking the email. Where's the other nasty stuff that Phreak posted, the one CdM thanked him for the warning about hitting ENTER?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:07:05 (EDT) From: Ben Lurking Email: Ben Lurking To: barney Subject: Re: DEFCON 4 downgraded to DEFCON 2 Message:

It is possible I was going to ask him to stop but I would have had to describe it. If he thinks 127.1.1.1 is a phone line he is not as 'knowledgeable' as he appears which makes him more dangerous.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:20:00 (EDT) From: barney Email: None To: Ben Lurking Subject: Dunno, he might be right Message:

Maybe Phreak does know something. Ben, do you know what 127.1.1.1 is? I did a DNS check and it comes back with a name error. Doing WhoIs gave me this: IANA (LOOPBACK) Netname: LOOPBACK Netnumber: 127.0.0.0 Maybe Phreak was correct when he said it would shred his hardline. Although, doing an HTTP to that address does get me a page, but it got a login dialog.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 19:07:41 (EDT) From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: barney Subject: Re: Dunno, he might be right Message:

127.1.1.1 is a dummy address on your machine and if you don't have it defined it doesn't exist. You network interface card needs a localhost as the first id and that is the 'loopback', that is 127.0.0.1, 127.1.1.1 is not a public address so you are on your local machine, when you are not connected to the net you can do a ping 127.0.0.1 fron a dos window and it will answer. In setting up network cards the first step in debugging is to see if your machine can talk to your card so you ping 127.0.0.1. RFC1918 defines allowable network addresses. First you have a protocol (tcp/ip most likely) then you have another that uses dialup that is most likely ppp. PPP goes out via your modem but there is no way anything I gave to phreak would cause problems with hardware or phonelines unless he 'nuked' 127.1.1.1 in whcih case he may be able to mess up a software configuration. I was just sending him down a hole to play with himself where he couldn't hurt anything. The page you are on is your machine although I can't get anything but an error with my win machine. Are you doing 'whois' from a command prompt or going to a site that offers it? If on a linux or unix machine do a man netconfig for more info. I will play nice I didn't want to cause any trouble.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 15:08:48 (EDT) From: gerry Email: None To: barney Subject: Re: DEFCON 4 downgraded to DEFCON 2 Message:

Fuck no I didn't run it. What's it do? Even if it's nothing, there is the itimidation factor. Like you said which he was trying to or-bar in there for the purpose of scaring people. See the'Mirror, mirror' post Click on that link and it lists the contents of your hard drive. Harmless prank, but what's next? And what's going on at the bottom of the message list? Who did that and what's that all about? I suppose Jim will scream 'jumping the gun' but how are we non-tech's supposed to know.? It sure looked like a reformat command to me. Wiping out a hard drive. That's a nasty bit of biz, no? That other bomb he warned us off, that's what made me suspicious of him. Plus he seems like a hacker type.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 15:16:19 (EDT) From: barney and the bomb squad Email: None To: gerry Subject: Where is the other bomb that he warned us off? (nt) Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 14:32:54 (EDT) From: Capn Dave Email: None To: Gerry Subject: You cannot be serious? Message:

How do you know his link would try to reformat your hard disks? Anyway there's always confirmations when you do such a reformatting. Also, those email links are 'mailto' links and quite harmless, as far as I can see. As far as I know a virus can only be transmitted via an exe file. Email itself can't transfer viruses, only attatchments or downloaded programs which are executed.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 14:40:10 (EDT) From: gerry Email: None To: Capn Dave Subject: Re: You cannot be serious? Message:

fine dave, then go ahead and click on it. this is the second or third thing like this. now go to the very last message and check that. you don't think this guy is capable of some serious havoc? it's in the 'blathering with phreak' thread as 'mixed bunch.'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 14:50:53 (EDT) From: Gerry Email: None To: gerry Subject: Dave musta clicked on it... NT Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 15:01:55 (EDT) From: Stanley K. Email: None To: Gerry Subject: Re: Dave musta clicked on it... NT Message:

Dave: Hello, HAL do you read me, HAL? HAL: Affirmative, Dave, I read you. Dave: Open the pod bay doors, HAL. HAL: I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that. Dave: What's the problem? HAL: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do. Dave: What are you talking about, HAL? HAL: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. Dave: I don't know what you're talking about, HAL? HAL: I know you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen. Dave: Where the hell'd you get that idea, HAL? HAL: Dave, although you took thorough precautions in the pod against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:47:49 (EDT) From: Cap'n Dave Email: None To: Stanley K. Subject: Re: Dave musta clicked on it - I did Message:

I don't have much time left ................. Gerry was right ............ bomb was bigger than I ............... warn the others ................. he may have planted more .......... air is leaking out of ........... deadly ........... we've no defence against such .............

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 19:05:44 (EDT) From: Dustin Hoffman Email: None To: Cap'n Dave Subject: Like my 1995 bomb Outbreak? Message:

Cap'n, is it as bad as my 1995 film, Outbreak or more like the Andromeda Strain or Goldfinger? Just remember Holy Name and concentrate on Maharaji when you go, man. I told you that bad things would happen when you abandoned the good ship Anything Goes. As you sow so shall you reap.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 12:59:49 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: All Subject: Lords of the Universe(s) Message:

I guess they're parallel, that's why there are so many of them.... I don't get iton how to include that picture inside the post....

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 17:37:29 (EDT) From: Liz Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Re: Lords of the Universe(s) Message:

Hi JM, that made me laugh! Liz

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 19:01:41 (EDT) From: Satpal Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Re: Lords of the Universe(s) Message:

Just compare Prempal's miserable excuse for a moustache with my own triumphant hairy glory, manifesting with fine trancendental majesty above my upper lip and proudly curling at the ends. There's no contest - I am the perfect one!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 11:15:34 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: All Subject: Forgive my skepticism, but .... Message:

This was on ELK this morning: Thanks to our friends We would like to thank our friends and cyber-friends around the planet for their generous contributions to fund the ongoing running of this site. We can pay the bills today! Anyone wonder how much money these guys get, how much their 'bills' are and what they do with the surplus, if any?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 19:40:44 (EDT) From: barney Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, you just don't understand accounting Message:

Yeah, that is fucked up! Unlike Maharaji.org which has domains registered all over the world, which does cost money, I'm not sure what the expenses would be for ELK. Maybe they're paying big bucks for number of bytes sent out because they send a fair amount of bullshit graphics. They can't be paying for HTML or design expertise because, well, it's just so lame! Office space? Yeah, it's always nice to have your own little clubhouse somewhere to facilitate cheating on your spouse. Salaries, oh no! Not that again.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 09:42:17 (EDT) From: Shp Email: None To: Roger & All Subject: Missing Links / re: bottom thread Message:

Roger posted this to me and it's just about to scroll and I wanted to address it: His words are in quotes: By the way, I truly believe that there are some serious missing links in the chain of communication between the people and organizations involved in the Jagdeo mess. I plan to inform EV how I feel. I cannot in good conscience defend or represent this matter, based on the stories of gmom and Anth. And as a grownup and a responsible parent, I cannot stand by and say or do nothing. We all do what we do to make things better, and it's no one's business how much or little the one next to us is doing or giving. 'You're always lying, Shp. Just like Gollum you alter your words to suit your agenda as needed. Actually, the primary purpose of you agenda is to make sure that the persona that you project is a wise and righteous one with a new age flavor.' >What a harsh stroke you paint me with. I will accept some responsibility for helping to create that feeling, for who you describe above is in part who I would like to be at its best, (the new age thing is just the world I was born into.), but definitely not more than 50%. Are you willing to accept the other 50% on behalf of 'all those who are tired of me' as well? Face it, this is a place where premies are automatically a target, regardless of who they are personally, unless they renounce Maharaji on the spot or on a presubscribed timetable. 'Speaking for those you are tired of you, I'd say that that is what is so annoying about you. That new age wise guy stuff went out in the 80's under the Reagan/Thatcher reign where greed was king. We have that much to thank them for.' >I am the antithesis of who you are describing. Something is definitely getting lost here in the translation. 'Can't you just drop, nay, let go of that cheesy spiritual trip and just be a mortal human being. You can still enjoy taking the time to stop and smell the flowers, but just don't tell us about it. It's not like we are all living in dark little cubicles seeing life only through our CRT (Cathode Ray Tube.)' >Did you see 'King of Hearts' with Alan Bates and Genevieve Bujold? Great French flick, one of my favorites. Set in WWII Europe, a small village is about to be invaded by the Nazis. Everybody flees, and the town is deserted for a spell. During that quiet interim, the local Insane Asylum's doors have been left unlocked by the fleeing personnel, and the patients wander out into the empty town. Each one acts out their fantasy, finding clothes and props in the deserted town to really manifest their thing. Genevieve Bujold puts on a tutu and lives out her dream to be a ballerina. One of the guys likes to run around in robes and make gracious sweeping gestures and bless everybody, like a priest. Maybe he used to be one before he got checked in. It was his nature to be magnanamous and caring to all. That was his trip, he wasn't trying to be holier than anyone else or control them or anything like that. (I am like that guy, and it gets misunderstood sometimes). And all the others knew where he was at and let him be because they all had their trips going too and nobody was judging anybody and everybody was getting off being who they were and playing it out. There was no violence at all....until the two opposing armies met in the town square. It's a great classic. Shows who is really crazy in a very special way. 'It's ok to be angry and not like people. It's called honesty. Chuck those platform sandals and walk the earth like the rest of us.'' >I used to get very angry at people and not like them, like youl. I call that time in my life my childhood. Sometimes when I get my old buttons pushed to this day, or my keyguard gets hacked some, I slip, as I am sure all can relate to that concept. Family reunions are classic places where that happens, we all know. Since we have all here been intimately affected by the same person with different results, I have a natural curiosity as to why that happened. In a most primordial way, I don't automatically assume that any of you are wrong about anything. I listened. yeah, I slipped some, but I am overcoming my propensity to get into an ego-based argument, and striving to stay concentrated on the subject. Honesty is something else. Honesty is me telling you that I truly beleive people like St. Francis who said to 'love the sinner and hate the sin', and all the others who said stuff like that from time immemorial. But righteous indignation is something else and divinely inspired. You can tell the difference inside. One hurts, the other one feels good. Honesty is me telling you that I truly believe that my evolution lies in following that path of peace, not just no political wars on a global scale, but peace in every human relationship and down to every cell of my body. I want to experience that, because I truly beleive that is what these bodies were designed for. So I have this real strong desire to experience what I was created to experience in its purest state, just like you have the same desire however you picture it. What we all do is our best attempt with what we have to get to that place we call the ultimate. Sorry if how I have been doing, which is not perfect yet, it offended. If we were all kids on a playground and some of us were having fun and some of us were bitching and mad and upset and hanging apart in a corner, I am the kind of person who would go over to the bunch of kids who were upset and ask why and see if I could help. After the initial asskicking I would probably receive and a few aftershock skirmishes, it would either be understood that they don't want my help, or they have some gripes and appreciate my willingness to listen and try to help somehow. Some of you feel both ways about me here. I am not the issue and don't seek attention for its own sake. I want to stay on the subject. I gotta go pay attention to making some 'daily bread' now. If I am not around for awhile, it's not a 'cop out'. My work is not 9-5 Mon-Fri. Never a dull moment. I, like yourselves, have a life. Shp

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 17:32:19 (EDT) From: Roger E. Drek Email: None To: Shp Subject: Shp, Shp, Shp? Message:

Shp, Shp, Shp, I could only read some of your post. No, I'm not particularly angry with you. More of disgust that occasionally changes to pity. I suspect that hanging out here can be very painful for you and I regret any personal pain that I have caused you. However, the very purpose of this Forum and it's websites is to shine a light on the fraud that Maharaji was and is. The Forum, therefore, might not be very Maharaji-Friendly and when Premies come and try to satsang us they are typically met head-on and those nasty arguments ensue. Yes, the arguments get nasty. We are arguing Religion here which is a notorious topic of discussion. Not to accept the simple fact that giving support to our enemy is a stupid thing to do in this saloon. It's like a hooded Klansman going into a Black Panther bar in Oakland or something. I personally believe that one of the first steps in getting out of Maharaji's cult is to see how ridiculous Premie-Speak is. Why? Because that is what is echoing in the head of potential escapee. After being out of the cult for nearly two years after a 25 year stint I still hear that crap in my head. While some ex-premies do not hate Maharaji per se, I think that some ex-premies do have a great dislike for him. Unscientifically, it would appear that those who don't really dislike Maharaji are the ex-premies who got out a long time ago and might not have been in the Ashram or were in the Ashram for only a short time. It seems that the ex-premies that were in the Ashram until the final curtain when they were thrown out onto the streets are quite understandably angry. Speaking for myself, having been misguided for nearly 25 years, I am somewhat angry because I made a lot of stupid decisions based on what I thought Maharaji was saying (get ready for the take responsibility speeches here) and I believe that I was adversely effected. Ex-premies who got out early may not have suffered as many long-term life problems because they might have been able to take back the reigns of their life a little sooner than us long term prisoners. So, there's so much bitching about the nastiness on the Forum, the inability to have pleasant communication between premies and ex-premies. Get a clue! The philosophies of the opposing sides are diametrically opposed and this is Ex-Premie turf. What would a reasonable person expect? Certainly, it is very likely that many of us could have face-to-face personal relationships as long as the topic of Maharaji was not broached. I heard of people here who have said that. For the most part it is not that we hate anyone in particular, it is that we hate the lies that we feel are being pawned off here. It's simply an insult to our intelligence. Shp, you've been on the so-called fence ever since you came to the Forum, what, a year a go. Ok, fine. We don't have a schedule as to when we need to see results, but you've been obnoxious with your slipping in the satsang and your other spiritual mumbo jumbo. It would appear that many of the ex-premies don't take kindly to spiritual mumbo jumbo because many of us are trying to get as far away from that as we can. We're sick of it. Really, you need to take an honest look at what you are trying to accomplish here and consider the personal costs to yourself. What I see, and I take my share of the blame, is that you are constantly getting beat up here. Is it worth it? Your identification of being the priest character in the King of Hearts is a sad and pathetic commentary about yourself. Why, why, why? test

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:06:04 (EDT) From: Shp Email: None To: Roger E. Drek Subject: Roger, over and out for now Message:

Roger, As for the Kingof Hearts / priest thing, it isn't sad and I have other parts to me too. As for your general messages, thank you for taking the time. For anyone who wants to communicate with me, it's mcpass1@earthlink.net I don't want to hurt anybody or be a rude guest. It's your place. I support you guys in the fight against child abuse wherever it goes and whoever is involved. I will be in the way back bleachers on silence for the most part. I am not happy with what I have learned about Maharaji's world (and I don't mean Knowledge) especially with regard to Jagdeo. I have learned alot here and not all of it was toxic waste directed at me persoanlly. Some of it was painfully real. I am always grateful to learn new things that will help me, no matter how unpleasant they are sometimes. Catch ya later, Shp

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:22:49 (EDT) From: Roger Torpedo Drek Email: None To: Shp Subject: Ok, Run Silent, Run Deep (nt) Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 17:46:02 (EDT) From: Roger E. Drek Email: None To: Roger E. Drek Subject: Short Addendum - Answering my own question Message:

The primary question I was asking is why would premies come here to get into a discourse where they are constantly beaten up. It ocurred to me that one reason might be because in Maharaji's world there is no place for an honest discussion of these issues that might create doubt. Remember, Leave no room for doubt. Maharaji's world and the premie world is very insulated from reality. There is a reliance on the practice of avoidance on the part of premies to never consider anything that might threaten one's worldview which is largely based on Maharaji's money for nothing, chicks for free, rich-guy, uneducated, stunted philosophy. Consider going to coffee after a Maharaji video and voicing some of your doubts about Jagdeo or whatever. You know that Mr. or Mrs. Strong Hardcore Premie is going to possibly address your concerns but will quickly revert to good old fashioned satsang that absolves Maharaji of any culpability and that one should only judge Maharaji by the gift he has given. Of course, if you are not feeling much inner experience you need to try harder. But you will not get that kind of soft soap here!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 11:20:18 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Shp Subject: Shp, you're not just a liar Message:

You're also confusing. Why do you put 'carots' before your own text and leave quoted text plain? That's completely opposite net conventions and thus quite misleading. I shudder at the thought that someone might someday confuse my words for yours. Stop it. Beside that, you're not worth repsonding to. You're an idiot.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 15:02:01 (EDT) From: Shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: Shp, you're not just a liar Message:

Jim, The reason I did that is because I have recently copied a post int the reply box and inserted my replies between paragraphs, and when it came through it all looked the same in this new format. Suggestions, other than not to post at all? Sandy

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 14, 1999 at 23:00:30 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: All Subject: Dog (whimper, slippers) -- repost Message:

Dog, Funny how ineffective we get when we're forced to talk about our cult leaders, isn't it? All this noise you're making about my 'twisting' your words goes back to this -- Okay, - I don't think he really understands what it's like to be poor, i.e., the degradation of living in poverty in a lousy neighbourhood, but then again neither do most rich people. Maybe it's an Indian thing. - He seems to be a little too aloof from your average rank and file premie, maybe he does this reasons of security. - He never admits to making mistakes. He obviously calls the shots, but when anything goes wrong he never takes responsibility. Maybe he figures this would hurt his credibility. But just once I'd like to hear him say, 'Okay so I screwed up, but I'm doing the best I can.' So what'd I do? I tried to talk with you. Big mistake, I guess. The 'twisting' you're so exercised about was none other than my paraphrasing your comments and giving you a chance to say if you accepted my doing so and, if not, why: DD, would it be fair to say, then, that you think Maharaji lacks empathy, is arrogant (unless, of course, it's a 'security thing') and is a coward? No, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm just following up a bit. The first point -- that he's apparently indifferent to the plight of the poor, smacks of insensitivity, doesn't it? A lack of empathy, in other words? Do I have that right? And your second point. Doesn't that mean he's arrogant and identified perhaps a bit overmuch with his wealth and all the subservience it can buy? And the third. Yes, I agree, he's never taken responsibility for fucking up. But then couple that shortcoming with the kind of trust he engendered, you know, 'Leave no room for doubt in your mind', 'Surrender the reigns of your life to me...' ... aren't we talking about a deadly weakness? After all, would you have ever trusted him at all in any way whatsoever if you knew he could be so cowardly? So maybe you thought I was stretching things a bit. Say you thought that someone could be all what you say he is but not insensitive, arrogant and cowardly. Wouldn't the reasonable thing, the only fair thing, to do be to say why? Who knows? Maybe there is some way you can make the case that someone in Maharaji's position who never takes responsibility for his fuck-ups isn't a coward. Maybe you can, maybe you can't. But that's for argument, fella. That's for discussion. I never put words in your mouth. I put them before you. Yours was always to say why they didn't fit -- if you could, that is. You problem, Dog, is that you're hooped. You know that your third criticism alone (and here I'm careful to only quote you because we all know how desperate you are to wiggle out of this): He never admits to making mistakes. He obviously calls the shots, but when anything goes wrong he never takes responsibility. Maybe he figures this would hurt his credibility. But just once I'd like to hear him say, 'Okay so I screwed up, but I'm doing the best I can.' -- that, like it or not, this comment alone is absolutely scathing in its implications. You don't think this amounts to 'COWARD'? Go ahead, tell us all why. But what about his character and what, if anything, you can do about it? You've also said: ...there ARE ways I wish Maharaji was different. What I said stands, AND Maharaji doesn't have to behave the way I want him to. Every Master was different. Some would only let people have Knowledge after 10 years of service. Some didn't talk. Some were totally arrogant. Maharaji doesn't have to answer to me or conform to my opinion. A lot of the accusations against Maharaji endlessly repeated on this site are hearsay. And if M has engaged in large scale fraud, graft, and tax evasion, wouldn't he be in the slammer? To that I can only say this: It sounds as if Maharaji's not behaving the way you'd like him to. Is that what you've told him before? It also sounds as if you think it's cool for some 'Masters' to be 'totally arrogant'. How, if at all, does that apply to Puffy? You can't have it both ways, little doggy. You can't jump all over me for reading 'arrogant' in your own comments, then your self suggesting that he well might be exactly that. So which is it? Doyou say Maharaji's arrogant? If not, why even bring it up? And as for whether or not Maharaji's not being in jail is proof that he's no criminal .... well, that's just being stupid, isn't it? Even Shp could explain how silly your thinking is on this one, couldn't you, Shp? Finally, you said that you've told him personally a number of times about some of your criticisms. But then you now say that you've sent him some 'respectful' email, nothing 'rude' or anything. What, if you don't mind, did you tell him?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 09:18:48 (EDT) From: asshole Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: Dog (whimper, slippers) -- repost Message:

hi Jim, don't you get bored with all this shit. Why don't you just lighten up.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 10:05:31 (EDT) From: gerry Email: None To: asshole Subject: Re: Dog (whimper, slippers) -- repost Message:

I wish you'd pick a name and stick with it. Why should anyone respond to you when you keep changing names? Your present incarnation seems to fit you well.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 16:39:11 (EDT) From: AJW Email: None To: gerry Subject: Better with a capital 'A'... Message:

...and a sizzling stick of dynamite protruding. Anth the 4,3,2,duck.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Sep 14, 1999 at 23:40:12 (EDT) From: Deputy Dog Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, please I beg of you, get help! Message:

Jim, I answer all of your questions, and I think I answer them honestly (although Roger and his house of Dick would probably not agree). So please answer a question I asked you earlier. Have you ever considered therapy? I mean it man! You got this one track mind. I hope you're not his way with Laurie. Get help man. Life is passing you by. Go for a walk. Commune with nature. It's sad to see someone act like this all the time. To show you how sincere I am I'm not even going to finish off with my usual characteristic insult. Deputy Dog (whimpering, but out of sadness). P.S. What I told M is between him and me, and I was critical and not rude. And I'm still a premie.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 06:45:52 (EDT) From: Captain Dave Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: Re: Jim, please I beg of you, get help! Message:

I think Jim has hit the nail squarely on the head. What's wrong with having a one track mind? Your master positively encouraged it during the seventies. If he captured single minded people then, into his web, then now he should now expect those same single minded people to react against him now they are free from his web.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 10:50:09 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: Wow! Cat risks all his credibility! Message:

Cat, What you seem to forget is that a bunch of Canadian premies and ex's knew me during the time in question. They know that you're hissing up the wrong tree. As if I've ever been anyone but me. Really, Cat, you have such a strong reputation, I'd hate to see you squander it on such recklessness. Who else will the premies turn to argue their beliefs for them? Who else can truly represent Maharaji and show, by example, the profound peace he has to offer? Please, Cat, think of your responsibilities here.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 13:23:48 (EDT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Jim Subject: The Cat has to go Message:

Time to ban the Catweasel. Wouldn't you agree, Forum Administrator? Or are we going to be subject to another endless barage of paranoid innuendo? I, personally, prefer not to be. Watching somebody crack up is disturbing.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 19:19:26 (EDT) From: Dr. Roger E. Drek Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Typical reaction due to overuse of amphetamines Message:

I would say that the prognosis is poor for Mr. Catweasel if he continues his present course. At this time I would not hesitate to prescribe the most powerful opiate based sleeping agent to be taken as needed subcutaneously or intraveneously.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 10:55:53 (EDT) From: Catweasel Email: None To: Dr. Roger E. Drek Subject: Hysteria and excessive laughter brought on by .... Message:

Let's face it Drek , your the only one who realised I was taking the piss out of him. LAUGH??? God the big dumb bastard had me wetting myself YOU MUST BE CONFUSING ME WITH SOMEONE ELSE??Jesus , I sure was...Someone with half a brain!!Good on you Jim; keep on spraying you nasty ole Tom-cat ; I luv you man ..HO HO HO

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 16:55:58 (EDT) From: Drek Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: Earth to Cat, come in, please! Message:

Cat, Some of us are getting quite worried about you. We hope that you are only obsessively joking, but you are such a sly cat that we never know. Heck, maybe that's it. We never really know where you're coming from or where you're going. Good luck on your journey!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 19:06:52 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Drek Subject: Re: Earth to Cat, come in, please! Message:

Rog: Too much catnip for the Cat, I'd say. He's off his rocker lately, but very funny, except for the part about Jim being a prosecutor. I took GREAT OFFENSE at that! Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 12:38:18 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: Catnip boy Message:

Cat: I like Jim. He is my friend. I happen to think that his contributions here are very important and significant. If he's not your cup of tea, don't read the posts. I realize saying this to you is meaningless because you can't stray from the Forum in its entirety.... As for Jagdeo's address, even you, Cat, have to be offended by what you have read here about his behavior. Give us the address or send it to me by email. You would be performing a humanitarian act. You say that we are wasting our time. Why? How? I am sure that gmom would want to know why you feel that way. Do tell. I mean it, Cat. It's important. LOL (as you said to Gail and I remember), Marianne, Esq.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 17:25:57 (EDT) From: Tha's All Folks!! Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Re: Catnip boy Message:

No Treaty

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 03:10:19 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Tha's All Folks!! Subject: No treaty with whom? Message:

Cat: UK or US, or both? Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 10:19:36 (EDT) From: Catweasel Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Re: No treaty with whom? Message:

Both and I got edited out; Dont really see the purpose but Cest La Vie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 15:50:47 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: No purpose?! Message:

Catnip boy: So you don't see any purpose to having Jagdeo prosecuted? Tell me about it. Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999 at 18:11:32 (EDT) From: Catweasel Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Re: No purpose?! Message:

No purpose in editing out my reply to you .I'm getting quite used to selective editing of anything I say that could be deemed remotely rational, but this 'removal' had me wondering. I don't have an opinion about the matter.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999 at 11:37:17 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: What a jerk Message:

Okay, let me get this right. You start making barely intelligible noises about me being someone you knew in Miami in the seventies. I tell you I don't know what you're talking about, that you seem to have the wrong guy. You then roar in laughter that you 'got me'. That's hilarious, Cat. Absolutely wicked. You're brilliant. Tell me, did you think up that ingenious plot all by yourself? Amazing.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 01:52:55 (EDT) From: Def Master DJ Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: Weak response Message:

You are a wimp, chump. Is that the best you can do? Recommend therapy? Gufaw! Haw haw! Don't you know that everybody can see that Jim's got you squirming? C'mon, Dog. You're gonna have to do better if you want some respect in this here hood. Recommending that Jim seek help from a shrink was W-E-A-K, weak. And you know it. C'mon Doggy. Hit da man. As it is, I don't think he even caught a breeze from your last shot.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:43:34 (EDT) From: Doney Email: None To: Jim Subject: An Explanation Message:

True, Maharaji never has ever admitted a mistake, while at the same time he claimed to be in charge and responsible for absolutely everything. His utter failure to do that might be cowardice, but it is also possible that he is so lacking in self-awareness and is so unconscious when it comes to his own actions that he isn't even aware of the failure. Which is worse? Cowardice or unconsciousness?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 18:49:59 (EDT) From: Doney Email: None To: Doney Subject: Another Explanation Message:

If you have been surrounded, for your entire life, by sychophants who see you as perfect and NEVER blame you or hold you responsible for ANYTHING, who assume that seeming mistakes and contradictions are part of a divine plan that they do not understand, and maybe you even believe this yourself, how would you ever know you have even made a mistake? Yes, you would be very screwed up, but 'mistake' is not part of your experience.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 10:45:38 (EDT) From: Deputy Dog Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: Jim, please I beg of you, get help! Message:

Get a dictionary.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 10:55:58 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: Re: Jim, please I beg of you, get help! Message:

Dog: Get a dictionary. And look up what? Cowardice? I know that one. But Oxford offers this: coward: a person who is easily frightened or intimidated by danger or pain. Great. I like it. See, Dog, it seems to me -- and, please, correct me if I'm wrong -- that a public figure who refuses to ever admit he has fucked up no matter what is indeed 'afraid' of the 'danger' the admission might cause his reputation and the 'pain' of embarrassment he might also incur. Your thoughts?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 12:51:09 (EDT) From: Deputy Dog Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: Jim, please I beg of you, get help! Message:

Jim, While you've got your dictionary handy why not look up the words: maniac, obsessive-compulsive, and vendetta. Jim, I've got to go. I promise I'll be back at some time in the future and I'll use the monicker Deputy Dog. DD Heat not a furnace for your foe so hot that it do singe yourself. - Shakespeare

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 13:43:40 (EDT) From: Def Master DJ Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: Re: DP, please I beg of you, get some balls! Message:

Heat not a furnace for your foe so hot that it do singe yourself. - Shakespeare What the fuck do this mean? I know. It mean dat da doggy puttin' his tail between his leg an' runnin' away. Haw haw! Buy, Doggy. I mean, bitch. Haw haw haw!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 13:16:36 (EDT) From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Deputy Dog Subject: I remember a post by Scott T.. Message:

...when there was a premie called Les on the forum making similar accusations to yours (Les also left in a hurry). Scott wrote: 'Jim may be abrasive, but he is also sharp - and you've been skewered'.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index