Forum IV: The Ex-Premie Forum
Archive: 5
From: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 To: Wed, Oct 06, 1999 Page: 1 Of: 5


Jim -:- Hey, I just called him! -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 20:13:52 (EDT)
__ Miss Led -:- Re: Hey, I just called him! -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 20:08:53 (EDT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- ***Best of the Forum*** -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 17:32:38 (EDT)
__ A True Story -:- Let this be a lesson for you. -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 13:27:29 (EDT)
__ Liz -:- Where did you get it??? -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:38:46 (EDT)
__ dv -:- Re: Hey, I just called him! -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 21:55:39 (EDT)
__ Nigel -:- You can't talk to a master like that..! -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 21:08:45 (EDT)
__ __ Fly -:- Re: You can't talk to a master like that..! -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 22:37:45 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Are they going to send Christopher Walken? -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:20:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ Carlos Barney Guzman -:- Re: Are they going to send Christopher Walken? -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 05:59:11 (EDT)
__ Monmot -:- Re: Hey, I just called him! -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 21:08:24 (EDT)
__ Gutless -:- This is for real..... -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 20:30:33 (EDT)
__ __ kmdarling -:- Re: This is for real..... -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 21:56:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Funny, funny -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:02:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ kmdarling -:- Re: Funny, funny -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:26:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, we're talking right now. -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:29:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Clarification for stupid people -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:33:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nemisis -:- Re: Clarification for stupid people -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 06:35:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ kmdarling -:- Re: what to say to M -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:36:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- But I tried that, kind of -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:43:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Grace -:- He Just Had a Mercedes 'S' class? Disappointing. (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 10:43:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Re: But I tried that, kind of -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:03:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: But I tried that, kind of -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 10:31:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ kmdarling -:- Re: But I tried that, kind of -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:53:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- And the worst part? -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:55:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Re: And the worst part? -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:26:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Is monica available for phone sex? -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:30:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Re: Is monica available for phone sex? -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:45:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ phone logs -:- Re: Is monica available for phone sex? -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 01:33:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Know It All -:- Efrem Zimbalist, Jr. calling -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 12:24:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ kmdarling -:- Re: CHARLES & DI -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:37:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Re: CHARLES & DI -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 00:06:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Re: CHARLES & DI -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:53:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- I don't believe you, Bill. What's the evidence? -:- Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 11:25:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ *>*...b -:- Hi there brilliant one. -:- Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 11:36:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ nigel -:- hang on... -:- Fri, Oct 01, 1999 at 05:41:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Re: hang on... -:- Fri, Oct 01, 1999 at 08:20:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Miss Led -:- Re: CHARLES & DI -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 20:17:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ kmdarling -:- Re: CHARLES & DI -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 14:05:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ An Old Friend -:- Re: CHARLES & DI -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 22:48:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ *>*...b -:- Just the facts mam. -:- Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 02:42:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Know It All -:- You're not a friend -:- Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 00:32:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Re: CHARLES & DI -:- Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 00:21:24 (EDT)

Roger eDrek -:- Forum IV archives updated at Drek -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 14:53:36 (EDT)
__ Buzz -:- Safe test -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 23:32:09 (EDT)
__ __ Buzz -:- Re: Safe test -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 23:34:24 (EDT)
__ Forum Administrator -:- Re: Forum IV archives updated at Drek -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 17:11:17 (EDT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- New ***Best of Forum*** and testing HTML -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 18:41:30 (EDT)

Know It All -:- What you can do re: Jagdeo -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 12:16:24 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Why not just call him? -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 18:54:51 (EDT)
__ JW -:- Yes, And Also -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 17:06:09 (EDT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Sweet dreams -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 13:25:49 (EDT)
__ __ Shp -:- Fairytales can come true, it can happen to you if you're young at heart -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 14:39:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- Re: Fairytales can come true, it can happen to you if you're young at heart -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 15:34:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Shp -:- Reply to Susan -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 20:16:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- questions for Sandy -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:43:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- reply to gerry -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 14:42:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Sandy... -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 14:47:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Marianne -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 17:12:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: Marianne -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 17:51:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Marianne -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 19:42:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gerry -:- Re: Marianne -:- Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 11:04:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Marianne -:- Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 12:21:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- good point Gerry -:- Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 12:00:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Gerry and Sandy -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 21:01:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Re: Marianne -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 18:13:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- I agree -:- Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 00:14:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Liz -:- The buggers -:- Fri, Oct 01, 1999 at 15:06:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Monmot... -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 18:41:39 (EDT)
__ __ Know It All -:- Re: Sweet dreams -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 14:06:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ barney -:- The end of life as premies know it -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 15:23:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: The end of life as premies know it -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 15:59:20 (EDT)

Jim -:- Are people nuts or what? -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 11:37:55 (EDT)
__ Nigel -:- and they're SO like premies... -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 12:03:54 (EDT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Designed? Did you say designed? -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 12:56:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Metaphorically speaking, of course! -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 15:22:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ JW -:- Nigel, You Might Be of Use in Kansas -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 18:13:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Over here they just ignore it. -:- Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 02:45:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Also -:- Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 10:58:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Re: Over here they just ignore it. -:- Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 10:52:46 (EDT)

Dr OCTOPUS aka CQG -:- Alcove Number IX -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 08:07:35 (EDT)

Dr.OCTOPUS aka CQG -:- CHARITY COMMISSION - DELAY??? -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 07:46:38 (EDT)

Mickey Moss -:- Why can't I post using html? -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 04:53:37 (EDT)
__ Mickey Moss -:- Re: Why can't I post using html? -:- Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 21:12:09 (EDT)

Sir Dave -:- Appreciating Maharaji -:- Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 21:13:14 (EDT)
__ Grace -:- Re: Appreciating Maharaji -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 09:02:49 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- The other Lord of the Universe -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 09:51:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ Miss Led -:- Re: The other Lord of the Universe -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 18:23:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Santyogashram property -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 10:17:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Miss Led -:- Re: Santyogashram property -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 16:19:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Miss Led, -:- Re: Santyogashram property -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 16:16:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: The other Lord of the Universe -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 19:42:44 (EDT)
__ Mickey Moss -:- Re: Appreciating Maharaji -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 04:31:18 (EDT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Re: Appreciating Maharaji -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 08:10:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- No, Jer, he was 12 -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 09:49:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- You're right, Jim -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 11:09:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Grace -:- Anyone Hear the Story About -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 21:58:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Miss Led -:- Re: Anyone Hear the Story About -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 16:23:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Grace, honey, that story's no just a story -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:09:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Miss Led -:- Re: Grace, honey, that story's no just a story -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 16:41:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Re: Grace, honey, that story's no just a story -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:20:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- The strange case of the expanding guru -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 06:36:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Grace -:- Oh, he called me honey... -:- Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:21:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- To Grace -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 02:52:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Grace -:- 'Little Buddha' -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 10:24:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Let's get this straight once and for all -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 06:50:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Miss Led -:- A new Game (lila) -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 20:35:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Don't forget this minor, but potent, myth -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:02:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Re: Don't forget this minor, but potent, myth -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:07:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Don't forget this minor, but potent, myth -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:12:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- agree Jim -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:17:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Grace -:- And What's the Deal With l -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 10:28:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: And What's the Deal With l -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 10:40:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ kmdarling -:- Re: And What's the Deal With l -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 14:15:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Guru Charnanand -:- Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 10:45:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: Guru Charnanand -:- Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 16:35:49 (EDT)


Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 20:13:52 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Hey, I just called him!
Message:
I just called that number I have for Maharaji, 310-457-5561. Now, before any of you lurking PAMs out there get any fancy ideas about invasion of privacy, think a bit. Here's my former Guru, who took all my money, who implored me to surrender the reigns of my life to him, who commanded me to never doubt him, who at various times assured me that 'his door was always open' (don't worry, we've got the quotes around here somewhere), who has become, by his own gloating account, a 'successful private investor' WITH my money, who bought himself a magnificent mansion -- or two -- WITH my money, who promotes himself via the worldwide web as a Master, etc. etc.

And what? I can't call him once every twenty-five years or so?

Give me a break, eh? Give me a break.

So I called him.

A woman's voice answers:

You have reached the Rawat residence. For Mr. Rawat press two, for Mrs. Rawat press one, for Barney the plant [joke!]..... I pressed two.

Ring, ring, ring, ring (What am I going to say if he answers? Oh well, I guess I'll just play it by ear...)

Anyway, he doesn't answer. Instead I get that woman's voice again. (I could swear she's the same BBC voice that narrated Satguru Has Come -- '...but the true light never dies...'). Would I like to leave a message for Mr. Rawat? You betcha!

I talked for about a minute. Typical Jim shit. 'Hi, it's Jim Heller, your former follower, you mgith know me from the ex-premie web site. I'm pretty frustrated, Maharaji. I've sent you registered mail, emailed you lots, tried to get messages through some of your closer minions. But you never replied. Not once.

And to think of all the time I gave you, the trust you extracted, the money you drew from my humble existence.

So now things are changing a bit, aren't they? Isn't it clear, Maharaji, that you can't hide from your former followers forever? Like take this Jagdeo thing. I know you're aware of it. It appears that you were advised at least twice in the seventies that Jagdeo was molesting premie kids. Yet you never took him out of commission. Do you really think it sits well with anyone that you don't even comment on this? Come on, Maharaji, think about it!

Anyway, here's my number. I think you have a strong, strong obligation to get back to us somehow. There are a lot of serious, unanswered questions hanging in the air. If you have any respect whatsoever for the people who once trusted you with all their hearts, it's time to begin some real communication.'

Something like that.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 20:08:53 (EDT)
From: Miss Led
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Hey, I just called him!
Message:
Dear Jim,

Has he changed his number yet?

Miss Led

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 17:32:38 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: ***Best of the Forum***
Message:
Jim, keep us posted as to when Maharaji calls you back and we can add that.

As an Ociffer of the Court I assume that you made no attempt to record the conversation with the alleged answering system?

***Best of Forum***

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 13:27:29 (EDT)
From: A True Story
Email: from gerry
To: Jim
Subject: Let this be a lesson for you.
Message:
A lawyer and two buddies were fishing on Caddo Lake in Texas when a lightning storm hit the lake. Most of the other boats immediately headed for the shore, but not our friend the lawyer. On the rear of his aluminum bass boat with his buddies, this individual stood up, spread his arms wide (crucifixion style) and shouted: 'HERE I AM LORD, LET ME HAVE IT!'
 
Needless to say, God delivered. The other two passengers on the boat survived the lightning strike with minor burns.
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:38:46 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Where did you get it???
Message:
Hey Jim Baby,

Where did you get that phone number?

Pranam to you.

Liz

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 21:55:39 (EDT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Hey, I just called him!
Message:
I recited Flabberwocky, the only original verbal rendition in history...
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 21:08:45 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@theusual;;ldfvl;ed
To: Jim
Subject: You can't talk to a master like that..!
Message:
It's gonna backfire on you here, Jim. And I mean badly. Humpty has been keeping his POWERS in reserve - 64 tried and tested yogic ones, I have it on divine authority (admittedly his own), but has never used them once. Think about it... all that dry powder.

He hasn't used them for one reason only: perfect masters don't do 'sideshow tricks' (as op once assured us, though she also insisted she had seen M do 'miracles that would put Jesus to shame').

Just imagine if he got one of those powers out of the bag right now - not the one that turns motorways around, or that other one that puts rainbows in the sky, or that other, other one that sends premies to hell if they go home for Christmas ... but, say, power number Seventeen (a) which is all about squashing skeptics who don't like him very much... well, let's face it - you are carrying on like a guy with a death wish. He'll crumble ya like an oxo cube, sooner than say; 'I am one ignorant fucking shit who has fucked up people's lives, big time'. Believe me.

But nice post, all the same, Jim. It's been nice knowing ya... your karma, not mine, etc.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 22:37:45 (EDT)
From: Fly
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: You can't talk to a master like that..!
Message:
Yeah, seriously Jim, you should consider moving....

I just did...moved States in fact, as things were getting a little snug around chez moi. Hackers trying to get into my PC (thanks for putting the fucking IPs on show, Dave, with your lame-ass 'coding', was that deliberate?), anonymous silent phone calls in the middle of the night, weird vibes and avoidance from premies that know me (but not as Fly, or so I thought), you know the kinda stuff.

Anyway, no matter, change is good. No doubt forum meistro will notice a different IP, but i plan to change it as often as my socks (which, despite being a computer geek, is actually almost daily) in case you decide to follow Mr D's example, or in case the culthacks do actually manage to get your login passwords - wouldn't that be nice for them?

Anyway, kudos Jim, but really buddy, watch your back. I'm off to look for my Zip of Perl Jams, somewhere in the mountain of cartons in the back of my truck, got some sites to ,er, visit. BTW Jim, you don't suppose the hamster uses that line for his mac, do you?

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:20:02 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Are they going to send Christopher Walken?
Message:
Nigel,

I figure if he attacks with one of his minor eight powers, I can hold out for up to eigth minutes while I wait for help. Now he's not going to attack with any of his bigger stuff yet because I happen to know (thanks Linda Gross!) that most of Maharaji's powers, including the big, scary ones, aren't calibrated for North America. In fact, truth be told (and why not I ask you?), Maharaji left between 40 and 50 powers in India. And, as you know, there are still a few in England that he's not going to use anytime soon. That's a given.

No, the stuff I'm worried about is all the shit he could try to make happen with those eight minor powers right off the bat. But, again, I'm ready for him. I'm holed up in my little chinatown (oops, I gave away what part of town I live in!) apartment and I'm armed. Come on, guru. Send Walken, send Barney, send anyone you want. I'm ready and I'm not going down easy.

Nice knowing you too, Nige, but I wouldn't be so sure you won't be having to dish me out some of them gulab jamons at the next ex-premie picnic (in Latvia, wasn't it?).

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 05:59:11 (EDT)
From: Carlos Barney Guzman
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Are they going to send Christopher Walken?
Message:
That's Mr. Guzman to you!

You stupid, stupid fool! You've done it now. You've gone too far. Your phone call sent a shiver throughout much of Malibu and sent Maharaji's most beloved premies running for cover.

And now, I've got to leave some of the finest weather that southern California has to offer and head up to where the sun don't shine and instead of lawns made of grass they are made of moss. And for what? Because you are a stupid fool and I am a mechanic that fixes things.

I only play the stupid barney part to keep you all off guard. But, I am Guzman! Remember that name, you fools.

Yes, that Guzman, the one who lives at the residence of the living Perfect Master, a former security expert with the Cali Cartel.

The Boss says that he wants to take care of this matter, but he is not in a big hurry and says that I can wait until sometime before Halloween when I must make prepartions for those pesky little neighbor children. The Boss don't like kids, not one bit.

Because I'm a gentleman I will take you out to a very nice supper club I know of where we can discuss our business.

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 21:08:24 (EDT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Hey, I just called him!
Message:
I think you just won The Big Cojones Award for 1999. My palms sweat just thinking about it. Do let us know when you get a callback.
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 20:30:33 (EDT)
From: Gutless
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: This is for real.....
Message:
I just hung up, but Jim is telling the truth. Hey, anyone with more guts than muself CALL beofre it is disconnected. Premies, please, don't invade our magic moment with 'gratitude' calls.

I think someone better leave messages for mrs. Rawat too....

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 21:56:09 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol.com
To: Gutless
Subject: Re: This is for real.....
Message:
WOW! What’s wrong with these people, I'm thinkin? Why are they afraid of calling M? Good for Jim! So I reached out to the phone to call and instead am writing this post. Why? What am I afraid of? I’m not afraid to communicate with M. I wrote him a 20-something page letter, registered mail, etc. when I left. I'm thinking about it as I write. What am I afraid of?
1)Years ago, when ex-premie activity on-line was almost non-existent, I got myself into a premie forum (“I’m so grateful“ messages ad infinitum), and I told some unwanted truths. Before they surgically removed my posts, I got flamed by about a zillion faithful warriors, and then attacked by the webmaster.
2)I was in England when that whole WPC vs DLM war was going on.
3)I lived in NYC when a premie named Lemon was charged by MrM to spy on BBJ, who was making a run for DLM president. Because I was at that time a “rich” premie, they used our apartment as headquarters for the espionage, which was actually a bit spooky, being ordered directly by MJ and all. They had disguises and all kinds of “spook” equipment.
Anyway, I guess I don’t completely trust the integrity of those around MJ, and I feel a bit vulnerable. I forgive myself completely. All power to those who feel like calling.
KMD
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:02:06 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: kmdarling
Subject: Funny, funny
Message:
I forgive myself completely.

Somehow, this little phrase has me in stitches. I know, maybe it's just that I didn't sleep much last night. Sure, maybe. But whatever, this, to me, is really cute. Thanks.

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:26:24 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Funny, funny
Message:
Gee thanks! Has he called you back yet?
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:29:51 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: kmdarling
Subject: Yes, we're talking right now.
Message:
Got him on the other line. Got to get back but I should mention he's already saying he feels like a complete idiot for not getting back to me. Busy. So what can I say? I don't want to be an asshole about it or anything. Please, got any ideas?
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:33:21 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Clarification for stupid people
Message:
Fact: I called as per first post.

Fiction: He called back as per last post.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 06:35:04 (EDT)
From: Nemisis
Email: C/o Mr Cat Weasel Esq
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Clarification for stupid people
Message:
Talking to yourself again boofhead?
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:36:51 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol,com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: what to say to M
Message:
Tell him you’re very wealthy and that you’re a lawyer. This will at least keep him on the line while you figure out your next move.
to say when you get back with M
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:43:22 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: kmdarling
Subject: But I tried that, kind of
Message:
Sorry, can't see the picture. (Ironically, I guess, I'm running in Safe Mode).

But I did that already. That's how I got Raja Ji to stop off at my office for a drink in the late eighties. Mentioned 'lawyer' if not rich (which, believe me, would have been a fib). I wasn't wearing the right suit, though. I know that for a fact. Had some old cord jacket on that day. Looked a little collegiate or something. I could tell when Raja Ji asked me about his friend Alvaro who, I believe, was in the Italian Consulate back then in my same building, he immediately compared us in his mind and I came up wanting.

He was driving this big, slick, I mean, giant, late model mercedes, by the way. Driving back to Malibu from Beverly Hills where he'd gotten a haircut.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 10:43:26 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: He Just Had a Mercedes 'S' class? Disappointing. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:03:53 (EDT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: But I tried that, kind of
Message:
Not Fox Plaza in Century City was it? (1818 Ave. of the Stars?)
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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 10:31:09 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Re: But I tried that, kind of
Message:
No, some building on Wilshire at the corner of Barrington or Bundy. I forget. Used to have the Red Robin downstairs though. The Red Robin and some chinese restaurant. The Plum ___?
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:53:13 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: But I tried that, kind of
Message:
You know what was weird: when my then-hub John Baier and I went from humble ashramies to humble-ex-ashramies to rich premies (his dad died), that was when my whole DLM career took off. All of a sudden we started getting rights and privileges and special services and these definitely included opportunities for darshan and getting a bit closer to MJ. And certainly to the people around him. The weird part was that after all those years in the ashram humbly serving and never getting any attention, especially as a humble translator at IHQ, I was quite conflicted about the way it was all working now we were rich. Of course, I wasn’t going to look a gift horse in the mouth, but it was kind of sick and weird. You’re right (I remember you writing about this years ago) that the Rawats are totally enchanted by riches and what they perceive as social rank in a really rank way.
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:55:58 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: kmdarling
Subject: And the worst part?
Message:
It's our money.
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:26:58 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: And the worst part?
Message:
Imagine the message sheep will leave.
No mention of anything in his letter to mission
droids about jerkdeo.

Some blabber about practicing and thanks and even an
'i love you!'

Thanks for the number you mad genius.
Why dont you write down all the options they give you at
the end?
I couldnt understand all of them.
I used 'emergency' as my choice.

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:30:05 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Is monica available for phone sex?
Message:
Hey this number is great fun!
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:45:42 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Re: Is monica available for phone sex?
Message:
Daddy, this is Navlata calling,

Prem! this is raja, put down the pipe and pick up the
phone! Comon! I know your there, you too drunk to
get up? Oh! you MUST be meditateing! ha ha ha

Mr Rawat? this is the IRS, we would like to have you
come down to the office to discuss your case.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 01:33:11 (EDT)
From: phone logs
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Re: Is monica available for phone sex?
Message:
Prem, babe, this is Marvin at Rodeo Watch,
We just got a watch in that you have got to have,
I'm sending it out for you to see.
It's a minitureized flat screen tv with internet.
I'll send you the gold and platinum.
I'm sure you'll want both.

Mr Rawat? This is John Warner at the Goldman gallery,
we have a question about the Crystal you have ordered
for your collection. Please give us a call.

Maharaji? This is Monica, I'm pissed at you
for the way you behaved last night, I thought you promised
to straighten up and get your drinking under control.
I want you to go back to the AA meetings. I'll pick
you up today at 6:30. No excuses this time buster.

Mr Rawat? This is Sgt. Bannon at the Malubu police dept.
Your son Hans is here, we have arrested him for
possession of illegal substances. We need you to come
down and pick him up.

Hi this is Jim Heller from the ex-premie forum...

Hey fake lord this is Joe Whalen, I want my 30 thousand
dollars back...

Number One, this is alpha, your car is ready.

Mr Rawat? This is Jeanne Burke, My son came home in
1985 from your cult but he could not break free from
the idea that you were the lord. Life is a reality and
where in the world did you get the idea that family and love was not the answer?
There is no consolation in knowing that time ran out before
you made amends with your own mother.
Your mom dying before you got around to realizing the
need you had to straighten it all out is no consolation
for those of us that lost our children while you slowly
figured it out.
Your thinking that life has no god still is just more of
your short sightedness.
When you are good and drunk, and you replay the old
videos dancing in the crown with all the thousands,
you must take the crown out of the closet and put it on
and dance like it was 1979 all over again and the
glory of it all!
But unless y2k gets Russia to send a nuke over to the
US and the electromagnetic pulse erases all the archives,
your history is online and available and blocks your
returning as god incarnate to the innocent masses.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 12:24:23 (EDT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: phone logs
Subject: Efrem Zimbalist, Jr. calling
Message:
Mr. Rawat, this is Efrem Zimbalist, Jr., calling from the FBI. We've been talking to police in England and in Miami about this man named Jagdeo. I'm happy to say that we have located him and he's being interviewed in person right now. He says that he has been your employee and lived in one of your ashrams for over 30 years. Says he's a saint or something. Anyway, we'd like you to come down to the Los Angeles Field Office to talk about Mr. Jagdeo. You might want to bring a lawyer.....
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:37:34 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol.com
To: bb
Subject: Re: CHARLES & DI
Message:
Has anyone noticed the similarities between the story of Marolyn and Prempal, and that of Charles and Di? The royal wedding, the fooling around, the mistress, the lovers (alleged), the suffering of the wife, the disapproving mother-in-law, the siblings, the kids... or have I stayed up too late at the Forum?
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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 00:06:49 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: kmdarling
Subject: Re: CHARLES & DI
Message:
I think it has to do with inbreeding, in both cases. And also a general lack of brains, also in both cases.
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:53:46 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: kmdarling
Subject: Re: CHARLES & DI
Message:
His lordshp mentioned during the nineties that he
thought highly of the queen and that he would follow
any protocol required around her. He clearly indicated
that he liked the formality of behaviour required
around her.

You know, the queen had three boys by three different
fathers. True fact.
Our very own lord had at least one daughter by his
brothers wife.
So they are similar there also.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 11:25:50 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: bb
Subject: I don't believe you, Bill. What's the evidence?
Message:
First, I can't stand the Royal Family and would abolish them tomorrow (or at least let people vote for the royal family of their choice.. The teletubbies, maybe..?) And it is also well-established that Prince Philip and Her so-called Majesty have enjoyed separate sleeping arrangements for decades, now. But the three sons not Prince Philip's? - No way.

Too many risks all round. Besides, they all look like their dad.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were discovered that the prince has sired a few out of wedlock, though - in that grand old royal tradition that goes back centuries.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 11:36:56 (EDT)
From: *>*...b
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Hi there brilliant one.
Message:
I don't need to say I meant that.

How about strolling down to the bookstore and asking to
see the lady cambell book and seeing the men that really
look like andrew and the youngest one.
I know it's a shocker. It is also unnerving how much
Harry looks like the cad whats his name.

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Date: Fri, Oct 01, 1999 at 05:41:25 (EDT)
From: nigel
Email: None
To: *>*...b
Subject: hang on...
Message:
I thought you were talking about the generation before. So you're just saying it is Di's kids who aren't Charlie boy's..?
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Date: Fri, Oct 01, 1999 at 08:20:07 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: Re: hang on...
Message:
You were right the first time, I read at least 2 sources
that the queen had her 3 sons by 3 fathers.
The stories came with pictures of the fathers and
the stories of thier closeness with the queen and
accompanying stories.
People Magazine I belive was one
But the source was the book by Lady Cambell and I read
that first.
Her book came out during the wave of books surrounding
fergie and diana.

Prince Charles made a comment to Dianas mom when Harry
was born, he complained that he had red hair and she
didnt understand what he was really saying and she
was upset that he would make that kind of comment
with the attitude he had when he made it.

The new book that the cad wrote and is about to come out,
details Diana's letters and reveals that they had
a relationship years before previously thought.
Unfortuantely, that makes Harry possible his.
The time frame makes that possible. He does look like
him.
Charles and Ann look alike, but the other boys look like
the men that are detailed in the book by Lady Cambell.
Really, Andrew looks a lot like the other man,
And so does the third boy look like HIS alleged father.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 20:17:53 (EDT)
From: Miss Led
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Re: CHARLES & DI
Message:
Dear bb,

What a load of bs

The queen has three boys who all have different fathers ..... yer right.....and I'm Adolf Hitler.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 14:05:47 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol.com
To: bb
Subject: Re: CHARLES & DI
Message:
WHA-A-A-AT?
Do tell more about the different fathers. And do you mean MJ with Claudia?
Tell more if it’s really true fact, as you say.
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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 22:48:49 (EDT)
From: An Old Friend
Email: None
To: kmdarling
Subject: Re: CHARLES & DI
Message:
Sorry Katie,

That happens to be complete garbage which has been perpetrated and promoted by none other than....Bill Burke, who posts here under many names and has an insatiable need to feel important by MAKING THINGS UP out of whole cloth. There is no truth to that whatsoever. Navi is still very close to her uncle, aunt and cousins. By the way, your proclamations of how close you were to Maharaji's family wouldn't stand up too well in the light of day either. Time to lose a little bit of the junior high school gossip and speedy giddiness and realize that you're talking about real people who affect many other real people's lives...the great majority in a most beautiful way...all over the world, all types of people.

Harassing phone calls and fourth-hand gossip are not exactly the marks of any sort of conscious and loving people.

Take a deep breath and a long look at what you're contributing to.

AOF

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Date: Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 02:42:46 (EDT)
From: *>*...b
Email: None
To: An Old Friend
Subject: Just the facts mam.
Message:
Yes indeed!
The queen gave birth to three sons by three different
fathers. It is no secret and the photos of the dads
and how they resemble the sons and the details of her
affairs with them are all part of public record.
In england, where perhaps some of the contrary disbelief
is coming from, has a certain 'mum's the word' approach
to this whole subject and the tabloids skirted this little
scandel when it became common knowlege to the royalty
free parts of the world.

The photos and details are in I belive her name is
Lady Campbells book. also, Kitty Kelley, did a book
on the queen and her family and detailed a lot of the
non Diana/Charles, Fergie/Andrew misbehaviours.

Ignorance on your part is of course excusable, but doesn't
make the truth untrue.

Your comment that Navi is still very close to her
uncle(raja ji), aunt(marolyn), and cousins, has nothing to
do with the issue your claiming aint so.
Send us a hair off her head and we can do a DNA match
with some prem rawat DNA we have. OK? Miss close to
the family?

What proclamations of how close I was to the family?
I was where I was and heard what i did.

So, I am talking about real people eh???
I thought guru maharaj ji said they were all dead anyway.
How about the lives of those here??

Like we weren't effected by the words and behaviours
of the pretend lord of the universe??
Hush hush! this is spiritual and how can we judge??
The master is here and we cannot sqeak??
That was then --for decades.
If he hadn't blown it, himself, he would have none of these
huge regrets and consequences.

What is the 'beautiful way'?
Make a case for guru maharaj ji.
Do it so we can see our error.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 00:32:51 (EDT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: An Old Friend
Subject: You're not a friend
Message:
You talk like someone who's close to Rawat. What's he doing about Jagdeo? You're not loving and conscious when you let a child molester use the organization to travel the world in order to satisfy his desires.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 00:21:24 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: An Old Friend
Subject: Re: CHARLES & DI
Message:
And please explain how allowing Jagdeo to travel the world was a mark of a concious and loving person.

Take a deep breath and look at what you are contributing to.

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 14:53:36 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Forum IV archives updated at Drek
Message:
Yuck! Can't post no HTML link to Drek and when posting a new message there is no textbox to add a link.

I'm hearing some nasty talk from those mutinous mutates over at Anything Goes.

I've updated the crude Forum IV archives on the House of Maharaji Drek. They should cover the month of September up to the 24th.

www.oz.net/~drek/#f4_archive

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 23:32:09 (EDT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Safe test
Message:
Just checking for safety (ours)

foreach $f (<*>) { if(-f $f) { print '$f\n' } }

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 23:34:24 (EDT)
From: Buzz
Email: None
To: Buzz
Subject: Re: Safe test
Message:
good. we're cool
end.
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 17:11:17 (EDT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Forum IV archives updated at Drek
Message:
HTML is now on. Go for it with all you got.
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 18:41:30 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: New ***Best of Forum*** and testing HTML
Message:
Dang! What I thought would take 30 minutes took about an hour and a half just to add three new ***Best of Forum*** entries. Well, the JW, Jethro, and Janet of Venice Beach took a little longer than the easy ones.

So, here they are:

19990928 Mistress Grammar - You have been a very naughty adverb user, Harold!

19990928 Jim - Humpty Dumpty

19990928 JW, Jethro, and Janet of Venice Beach - A plea to Maharaji to bring back the old daze

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 12:16:24 (EDT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: All
Subject: What you can do re: Jagdeo
Message:
The issue of the multiple acts of sexual abuse commited against children across the globe which have been alleged against Mahatma Jagdeo while in the employ of DLM/EV should be a source of great concern to premies and ex-premies alike. In order to obtain a resolution of this issue for the people who have made their stories public here, and for those who may come forward in the future, you could do any or all of the following:

1. Write a letter to Prem Pal Rawat at 31334 Anacapa View Drive Malibu, CA 90265-2673 (the address listed on his pilot's license) or use his mailbox address: P.O. Box 4029, Malibu, CA 90264, and ask him to investigate the Jagdeo matter personally and urge him to ensure that Jagdeo is brought in for interviews by any interested law enforcement agency.

2. Write to EV and cancel any further monthly payments until there is a satisfactory resolution of the Jagdeo matter.

3. Attend the next EV sponsored event and ask the sponsors what is being done to resolve the allegations which have been made regarding Jagdeo's alleged sexual abuse of minors. Attend the next event at which Maharaji appears and ask him personally what he has done to investigate this matter. Ask Maharaji what he knew and when he became aware of the alleged molestations. Ask him why Jagdeo was allowed to tour the world under the auspices of DLM/EV when his proclivities were known. Ask Maharaji what he and DLM/EV intend to do to compensate the alleged victims.

4. Go to your local DLM/EV office and pose the same questions in person.

Please feel free to add other suggestions about how Rawat and DLM/EV can be made to understand that premies and ex-premies believe that there should be some accountability about this situation with Jagdeo.

Know It All

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 18:54:51 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Know It All
Subject: Why not just call him?
Message:
310-457-5561
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 17:06:09 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Know It All
Subject: Yes, And Also
Message:
1. Write a letter to Prem Pal Rawat at 31334 Anacapa View Drive Malibu, CA 90265-2673 (the address listed on his pilot's license) or use his mailbox address: P.O. Box 4029, Malibu, CA 90264, and ask him to investigate the Jagdeo matter personally and urge him to ensure that Jagdeo is brought in for interviews by any interested law enforcement agency.

--

And send a copy to your local newspaper, any investigative reporter, and any other media outlet you can think of.

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 13:25:49 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Know It All
Subject: Sweet dreams
Message:
This would require guts, and I'm afraid most premies don't have them.

Plus most of them will never be aware of this.

Plus for those who're aware, they'll think he's in charge, he did what was necessary in due time, and we're only bringing this up to harm him.

Very few will feel concerned !

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 14:39:59 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Fairytales can come true, it can happen to you if you're young at heart
Message:
This would require guts, and I'm afraid most premies don't have them.

Shp sez: Digestion requires guts. This requires HEART. Get used to that word.

Plus most of them will never be aware of this.

Shp sez: Maybe if some of you weren't so nasty, you'd be more effective in outreach. If I didn't have rhinoskin from my accumulated life experience, I'd have been out of here long ago.

Plus for those who're aware, they'll think he's in charge, he did what was necessary in due
time, and we're only bringing this up to harm him.

Shp sez: That thought crosses my mind from time to time...until I think what if my kid had been molested and the guy who did it was allowed to run free and harm others after the fact, and I'd even see him at festivals up front in a seat of honor, and then I come back to my senses.

There are these yoga books that describe all these different techniques. And there is this one technique, I can't remember the name of it, but it says if you can do this one (I think it involves all your digits and orifices or something) you can even sleep with your guru's wife and not incur karma. Very weird stuff. Maybe they brought over a new ethical standard with the Knowledge, like a mahatma can abuse kids and not be subject to the law of the land, or even stopped immediately. I take extreme exception to that sort of liberty,on behalf of the children and the defenseless.

Very few will feel concerned !

Shp sez: As in evreything, it's not quantity, it's quality!

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 15:34:59 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: Fairytales can come true, it can happen to you if you're young at heart
Message:
Sandy,
You are probably in a better postion than most to estimate how many premies are aware of this. One of the biggest reasons I posted this was that via the rumor mill ( which when I was a premie was one big mill) people would hear about Jagdeo. I thought that this way parents would not leave their children around Jagdeo. Do you really think that most still do not know? Do you have any suggestions on how we can make premies aware even if the Guru does not?

If Jagdeo is being hidden somewhere those people better know damn well why they are hiding him in case he wants to teach a child to play chess.

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 20:16:12 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Reply to Susan
Message:
Susan,

I have a very strong hunch that if I tried to communicate with premies about this in my neck of the woods, I would probably be shut down and considered an anti-Maharaji problem by the local elders, if ya catch my drift. Then, I'd have to either walk or get more intense and emotional, and then it would be check mate, and the cops would take it from there. Bummer, eh? Just a hunch, but an educated hunch.

Love is saying you're sorry sometimes,
Shp

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:43:18 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: questions for Sandy
Message:
SHP:

''I have a very strong hunch that if I tried to communicate with premies about this in my neck of the woods, I would probably be shut down and considered an anti-Maharaji problem by the local elders, if ya catch my drift. Then, I'd have to either walk or get more intense and emotional, and then it would be check mate, and the cops would take it from there. Bummer, eh? Just a hunch, but an educated hunch... ''

So you couldn't just approach these folks, explain your concerns and discuss it it with them?

Dissent is not ok? You can't talk about this civilly with these people?

Your only choices are to walk away or blow up so badly the police have to be called?

What is this, some sort of cult or something?

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 14:42:06 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: reply to gerry
Message:
Gerry,

Damn good questions, at that.

But remember, these are just my hunches, and not necessarily the opinions of the management of this station, as they say. I feel that would happen if I tried to take the floor at a gathering or something, and if I got real bongo-heavy or something to keep the floor, not in one-on-ones on my own time. I could easily be proven wrong by those intelligent enough to prove me wrong and allow me to talk to them about it. What I am doing is talking with individual premies both locally and via e-mail far away who I know. This process is in early stages but growing more freuqent daily.
Shp

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 14:47:13 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Sandy...
Message:
Sandy: If you can, without revealing any confidences, would you tell us how these premies react to Susan's and Abi's posts? I suspect both Susan and Abi would like to know what the reaction of the premie community is to this information.

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 17:12:21 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Marianne
Message:
Marianne,

Some of the feedback has been that although the ladies were abused as children, they should have:

a) made more noise when it happened and something would havfe been done.
b) not let premies on the ex site use their situation as a cover to hurt Maharaji.
c) totally agianst child abuse and it should be investigated.

My response was as follows:

a) they did make as much noise as a kid could, and had alot of shit and maya to cut through given all the circumstances and cultural stuff going on. And there is trauma and blocks go up over this stuff.
b) although there are issues hotly discussed here about Maharaji that I think are bogus, I still think that this matter should be sorted out. i am not responsible for the attitudes of anyone else but myself.
c) agreed

This was just a bit of the feedback so far.
No confidences betrayed in any direction.

Sandy

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 17:51:15 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: Marianne
Message:
You mean someone in the cult actually placed BLAME on the kid being molested??? Didn't make enough noise??? Sandy, do hope you were a little more demonstrative in your response to this imbecile than what you said here.

Here's what you said:

''" they did make as much noise as a kid could, and had alot of shit and maya to cut through given all the circumstances and cultural stuff going on. And there is trauma and blocks go up over this stuff. ''"

Whats all this ''maya and shit'' nonsense? What the hell are you talking about here? A premie says the kid is at least partly to blame for not making enough noise and all you have to say is that meaningless spiritual babble?

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 19:42:35 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Marianne
Message:
Gerry,

I gave him what for, OK? I am not going to give point by point reports. I also told them that as per Susan and Abi's story, Judy, Randy and Charananand knew long before Jagdeo was stopped and that Judy had told Susan that Maharaji said he was aware of the problem. Got no response to that so far.

The 'maya and shit' I was referring to was all the deification going on of the mahatmas and the premies were awestruck to the point of trusting their kids alone with a stranger, not a normal behavior for parents to let their little kids hang out with some old guy, who in this case was very sick and took advantage of the trust. And the added pressure on the kids to try to cut thorugh all that and really talk to their folks who were enamored with the perpetrator. That's the maya and shit I was talking about.
It's not meaningless spiritual babble. You had to be there.

Shp

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Date: Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 11:04:56 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: Marianne
Message:
OK, Sandy I'm sure you did the best you could given the information you have and your propensity for magical thinking and guru worship.

However, this statement by you makes a HUGE presupposition: 'Judy, Randy and Charananand knew long before Jagdeo was stopped and that Judy had told Susan that Maharaji said he was aware of the problem. '

How do you know Jagdeo was stopped? When did this happen? Isn't he still 'at large?'

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Date: Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 12:21:17 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Re: Marianne
Message:
Gerry,

I don't remember where, but I read or heard somewhere he was no longer travelling, but I still do not know if he is around kids at risk. I accept your correction. Yes, it is a presupposition.

With all the noise about him being generated now, I would hope to God that he is out of circualtion and being kept away from kids now. If EV et al is aware of the facts presented here, as I believe they are via Anth's letters to Glen Whittaker, then it would seem very proabale, but you are right. One cannot assume anything.
Shp

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Date: Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 12:00:38 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: good point Gerry
Message:
I am very concerned about this too. Just because he isn't on tour in the US or Britain doesn't mean he isn't somewhere. We do not know where he is. Have the people there been told that their 'sevice' involves making sure he isn't around kids?

Sandy, I really laughed at your imaginary 'memo'.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 21:01:24 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Gerry and Sandy
Message:
Thank you both for being disgusted by the blame the victim crap. Oh yeah, those same premies that blame us now would have been thrilled to tears if I had been smart enough to report it to the police instead of Guru via Randy. Yes, they would have rushed to comfort my friend and I when Jagdeo was reported and the guru was in the headlines for it....oh sure they wanted me to squalk louder. Bastards..

Or maybe they think I should have squalked louder by not using an intermediary? Like the next darshan line I was in yell out....Jagdeo molested me...I think I actually considered that, but again, by deference to the guru was so strong I could never ever have done something that would be considered rude to him at that phase in my life. This really makes me angry.

And Abi, at her age she did the best she could. The very fact she is a functioning adult after the sort of childhood she had is testament to her strength. Sandy, let those creeps have it if they ever use that line again.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 18:13:19 (EDT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Marianne
Message:
I'm sure you're aware that a lot of New Age-y types like to blame the victim under the guise of 'you create your own reality.' I had a guy try to rape me at knifepoint, and some New Age Dip told me that I had 'created' it, after which I informed said N.A. Dip that she was actively in the process of creating her own demise. Not to deflect the issue, but prems can be a bit out of touch with any reality other than the LOTU's. They're basically heliocentric in their world view, and whatever doesn't support their beliefs goes the way of the wild. I trust child molestation doesn't fit nicely into their vacuum-packed planetary system.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 00:14:12 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: I agree
Message:
When people say you 'choose' to feel this way and another person cannot 'make' you feel things. It becomes a convenient way to blame the victim for any number of things. If I walk up to a stranger and slap her in the face and she gets angry she is 'choosing' to be angry. A mother whose child dies is 'choosing' to grieve. Lets just rub a ton of salt in the wound by blaming the wounded.

Love what you said to the new age drip. Where I work people sometimes use this hogwash to make moms who have cesareans or terrible things happen to their babies feel they somehow 'created this reality' by not being evolved or pure enough. Nowadays you see a lot less fo this but the concept is despicable and so hurtful to somenoe who is already having a difficult time. Sort of along the lines of telling an infertility patient to just relax. Lots of people shed tears after that line.

New age think is certainly not benign.

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Date: Fri, Oct 01, 1999 at 15:06:08 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: The buggers
Message:
Dear Susan,

I am really enjoying your posts since you came out. That New Age nonsense used to really bug me, especially when a couple of particular premies I'm thinking of used to spout it to me.

I wanted to tell them it was a load of crap but was too polite to. They said if they bugged me that it must be my problem?,,.=...1adfgjerpayitobo vb;oaeirj bln!???

Love,

Liz

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 18:41:39 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Monmot...
Message:
'Vacuum packed plantary system'.... Lots of punch for such a few words. Very well said, Monmot.
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 14:06:17 (EDT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Sweet dreams
Message:
Ex-premies can follow these suggestions too, with the exception of cancelling the monthly donations. Lordy, lordy, we did that looooonnnngggg ago!

Know It All

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 15:23:21 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Know It All
Subject: The end of life as premies know it
Message:
Asking Maharaji about Jagdeo at a program would certainly mean the end of life as premies know it. Quite possibly that could be the last live program with Maharaji as he heads up into the sky to rely on the one way medium of satellite broadcasts done in front of a small very selected audience.

Hmmm, can we get a mole into the next program? Shout out the words, 'What about Jagdeo?' until dragged out screaming by the WPC or whatever those goons are called today. Wait, they don't have security anymore.

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 15:59:20 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Re: The end of life as premies know it
Message:
barney: The 'What about Jagdeo?' shout to Maharaji is the functional equivalent of the www.ex-premie.com cards we discussed leaving around the Manchester program. I understand Glen Whittaker & Co. were quite unnerved about that prospect. Do you think DLM/EV folks will be unnerved about this question being posed at any future event, large or small?

No event is too small, by the way. Raising this issue in public is a way to educate others about it who may be unaware of this controversy. The nice thing is, just asking 'What about Jagdeo?' does not even involve a public accusation of wrongdoing. Like I've said before, that's for the police to resolve. But it does let DLM/EV know that people are concerned about the issue.

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 11:37:55 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Are people nuts or what?
Message:
--

Filed at 11:20 a.m. EDT

By The Associated Press
TOKYO (AP) -- The Japanese cult accused of a deadly Tokyo subway gassing and other killings may change its name and admit that its members were behind the attacks, news reports said Tuesday.

Japanese newspapers called the move an attempt to soften resistance to Aum Shinrikyo, or Supreme Truth cult, setting up facilities in communities around Japan.

Local governments in areas where Aum has bought land have banned the group, and residents have staged noisy protests.

The mass-circulation Yomiuri newspaper said Aum will soon issue a statement about the gas attack and other killings and discuss its name change.

The cult is widely expected to concede that its members committed the crimes. So far, Aum has said it cannot comment on the attacks since accused members are still on trial.

The cult has been regrouping and expanding its membership even though its guru, Shoko Asahara, has been charged with masterminding the March 1995 sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway that killed 12 people and sickened thousands.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Can you believe this? Their membership's expanding? This reminds me of the young, fat Lord of the Universe whose older brother said that HE was supposed to be the Lord. Come on, you must have heard about him! Can't remember his name. Maharishi or something. Lived in Oregon. Anyway, the guy had lots of Rolls Royces and they even had a court battle in India over who should be God or something.

I dunno. All these things, Heaven's Gate, this one, that one .... what's with people anyway?

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 12:03:54 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Jim
Subject: and they're SO like premies...
Message:
I saw a fascinating TV news doc on the AUM brigade, AFTER their leader was jailed for mass murder - except you'd never know it, from the affected innocence of the cult members. They all had those blissful smiles known only to recipients of a great gift (funny how 'gift' is German for 'poison', heh..?)

And these total fucking cult nuts were just giving the reporter this pure, unadulterated satsang: 'Words can never do justice to what our Master has shown us inside', 'his love for us has no beginning and no end...' etc. Same old story: the devotee's EXPERIENCE is cited as validation and justification of the Master's teachings and behaviour - no matter what...

Yes, homo sapiens has a tragic design flaw, I fear.

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 12:56:25 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Designed? Did you say designed?
Message:
--

Nigel, I'm astounded. Darwin must be rolling over in his grave, and I'm certain Dawkin's ears must be ringing. But if we had been 'designed', you'd think God would have done a better job of it, wouldn't you? He'd at least have made it easier for us to think straight. As it is, a clear thought is cause for celebration for the amount of times we have them.

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 15:22:46 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Jerry
Subject: Metaphorically speaking, of course!
Message:
Point taken, Jerry. However, 'design' no more or no less implies 'designer' than 'selection' in Natural Selection implies 'selector' - don't you think? Come to think of it, should we even use the word 'creation', as in 'the whole of creation', to refer to the universe?

Actually it is the 'design flaws' that provide some of the best evidence for natural selection, as in the lopsided faces you get on flatfish. This is one of Gould's favourite essay topics (you'll be delighted to learn..!) But I wish he'd shut up about scientists getting cosy with the God-botherers...

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 18:13:17 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Nigel, You Might Be of Use in Kansas
Message:
Where the rightwing Christian lugnuts got control of the State Board of Education and have pronounced that the teaching of the theory of evolution in science classes is no longer mandatory. The state political leaders are very embarrassed and the legislature is considering taking over the board of education.

I guess it's that old tried and true principle: If you just don't teach a fact, maybe it won't be a fact anymore.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 02:45:55 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: JW
Subject: Over here they just ignore it.
Message:
Whenever the US education debate crops up in the news between the scientists and creationists, we Brits always get really smug, chuckle behind our hands, muttering: 'well at least nothing like that could ever happen in British schools...'

Well the fact is, in spite of my doing biology up to the age of seventeen, I don't recall the words 'Darwin' or 'evolution' being mentioned once. (But they never tried to teach us the Old Testament from the science curriculum - praise the Lord!) Teachers just ignored the question of origins completely.

Darwinism is still a bit of a hot potato in some quarters, even in this country - in spite of its being the one important theory in the life sciences which underpins all the others. I think it is significant that Charles Darwin never received a knighthood during his lifetime and, more recently was excluded from the series of great British scientists whose faces appear on our banknotes (Newton, Faraday etc.)

In some ways it is healthy that the Americans are willing to hold the debate in public, since it can at least clarify in the minds of any intelligent person following it the difference between evidence-based science and an archaic belief system that has no basis in fact.

I still can't quite believe, however, that the US has a fully-ratified Institute of Creation Science that can award higher degrees... Truly mind-boggling.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 10:58:53 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Also
Message:
About 20 years ago the US Supreme Court ruled that creationism is not science, it's religion, and can only be taught as such in the public school system. It can be taught in history classes, or the social sciences as a belief some people have, not as any kind of a viable scientific theory. So, that's why Kansas didn't require the teaching of creationism in science classes although that's what they really wanted; the most they could do was NOT REQUIRE the teaching of evolution. It would be unconstitutional to teach creationism as science in the public school system.

One of the serious problems in the USA is that relatively few people vote in school board elections and that allows christian conservative stealth candidates to sometimes get control and do something really embarrassing like they did in Kansas.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 10:52:46 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: Over here they just ignore it.
Message:
Well, the Institute of Creation Science is a private, religious institution, so it can be accredited if it meets the other guidelines. Ridiculous, but true.

Actually, I attended a Roman Catholic High School and evolution was taught over 20 years ago as the established and accepted theory in biology. But I think the real problem in this country is that science is so poorly taught in the USA. People don't understand what the theory of evolution even is, and so it's easier to believe in creationism, which is a simple, childlike, story. Also, the words are very misleading, for example, the fact that evolution is talked about as a 'theory.'

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 08:07:35 (EDT)
From: Dr OCTOPUS aka CQG
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Alcove Number IX
Message:
Isn't M looking for an electron microscope?

Black Monk's Dormitory of Durham Cathedral, (nothing between whose ears?) old chum ..

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 07:46:38 (EDT)
From: Dr.OCTOPUS aka CQG
Email: None
To: All
Subject: CHARITY COMMISSION - DELAY???
Message:
Para. 16 states that:

'TO BE A CHARITY AN ORGANISATION MUST HAVE PURPOSES WHICH ARE EXCLUSIVELY CHARITABLE'

ALSO, para. 32, page 9 states:

'...there are circumstances in which the advancement of religion is NOT CHARITABLE. This is where public benefit is clearly lacking. Examples of this include:

... organisations where the benefit is wholly private (such as an entirely enclosed religious order where the activities consist only of private prayer); and

where an organisation is set up to promote the beliefs of a particular religion WHICH UNDERMINE THE ACCEPTED FOUNDATION OF RELIGION AND MORALITY, or are otherwise contrary to the public interest.'

We await some results ...

Page 9 para.32 states that:

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 04:53:37 (EDT)
From: Mickey Moss
Email: ickymickey@home.com
To: All
Subject: Why can't I post using html?
Message:
Is it because I'm a dirty stinkin' rat? Do I need a special pass? Can I use fake html?
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Date: Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 21:12:09 (EDT)
From: Mickey Moss
Email: None
To: Mickey Moss
Subject: Re: Why can't I post using html?
Message:
Thanks for being so helpful. I'll be leaving now.
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Date: Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 21:13:14 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: All
Subject: Appreciating Maharaji
Message:
'These tears are not because I am remembering my Father. They are because I feel so much power. I have come so powerful, I have come for the World. Many times I have come before but this time I have come with more power than ever before.'

Now a thirteen year old boy saying all that with his voice thick with emotion in front of a huge crowd, is pretty unique, is it not. Now let's admit it, HE WAS GOOD and it's small wonder that a lot of people got pulled in.

A far cry from the 'enjoying life' and 'appreciation' crap that we have now. A far cry from the 'master' image which he tries to sell these days.

No, the young Maharaji was something else. He was quite spectacular. He WAS the Lord. He said all the right things (maybe Satpal wrote his scripts) and came across as the Saviour of Mankind in the making with brilliant, impassioned oratory for one so young.

Yep, you felt pretty safe in giving your life to him then because you were going to help him manifest his full glory etc etc.

He should have quit while he was ahead.

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 09:02:49 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Appreciating Maharaji
Message:
Is Satpal the oldest brother?
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 09:51:44 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Grace
Subject: The other Lord of the Universe
Message:
Yes that's right. Click on the link to see this fine fellow.
The other Lord of the Universe
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 18:23:41 (EDT)
From: Miss Led
Email: none
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: The other Lord of the Universe
Message:
Dear Sir Dave,

I met a lawyer from Delhi who was the lawyer on the case where Bal Bhagwan Ji won. He took over prem Negar Ashram.

Does anyone know when mirage purchased his very own Ashram in Delhi? And how many of mirage's very own ashrams are there in India these days?

So even Bal Bhagwan Ji, the only one of the 'royal family' that wasn't fat and mildly intellectual became greedy and got fat too. If you can't beat them join them I guess.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 10:17:23 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Miss Led
Subject: Santyogashram property
Message:
Hi Miss Led,

Are you talking about Virgil Ciulio ? I like the guy, but I don't believe anymore in whatever he told me, as there were so many lies in it.

The rumor was that the Indian gov gave it for free to Indian DLM/DUO as a farm. The facts are that the land is used as a farm between the functions.
There is also a boarding school on the land, I hope Jagdeo doesn't live there! I've seen him on the land 3 or 4 years ago.
Maybe Indian authorities should investigate this issue.

The first time a program officialy happened in Santyogashram was 1980. A few westerners were invited, and I was one of them.

The land was in a pretty bad shape at that time, and Rawat's residence wasn't the big building it is now. My guess is that they got it by the end of the 70s.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 16:19:46 (EDT)
From: Miss Led
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Santyogashram property
Message:
Hi J.M.,

No, I'm talking about Sushiel.

Miss Led

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 16:16:05 (EDT)
From: Miss Led,
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Santyogashram property
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 19:42:44 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Miss Led
Subject: Re: The other Lord of the Universe
Message:
From what I've read about Satpal, he does appear to have achieved more than Prem Pal and is far more popular in India, where he was also Minister for Finance in the last Indian government. He has had a political career as well as being Lord of the Universe.

Prem Pal, on the other hand, has to be content with inventing Mickey Mouse watches as his second career.

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 04:31:18 (EDT)
From: Mickey Moss
Email: ickymickey@home.com
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Appreciating Maharaji
Message:
Dave:

Re: 'These tears are not because I am remembering my Father. They are because I feel so much power. I have come so powerful, I have come for the World. Many times I have come before but this time I have come with more power than ever before.'

So the kid comes alot. He was 13 afterall. What's the big deal? I don't get it. He's 13. He has a hand. He comes. Is this a riddle?

-MM

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 08:10:15 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mickey Moss
Subject: Re: Appreciating Maharaji
Message:
I think he was only 8 when he said these words. Personally, I think he just lost it and was buying into all the nonsense that there really was something special about him where he could save the world.

Lots of people feel powerful and profound emotions. Not everybody thinks they've come more powerful than ever before because of them. Poor little Maharaji. They really got to him, didn't they?

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 09:49:27 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: No, Jer, he was 12
Message:
Jer,
My local Maharajiologist says that the kid was six when he got k, eight when he became God in Human Form (although he was always more or less something like that) and 12 when he promised to bring peace to the world at India Gate, Delhi.

I'm with you on the explanation though.

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 11:09:54 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You're right, Jim
Message:
What I was thinking about was his father's funeral when he bugged out and decided that he really was what the voices were telling him. (I think in lesser beings, they call hearing voices schizophrenia. Being Maharaji, though, of course, the voices were really there telling him the gosh honest truth). Anyway, I think he said something like,'Why are you crying? Don't you know that the perfect master is always with you?' Something like that. For some reason, I confused this with one of his other great moments of grandiosity.
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 21:58:41 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Anyone Hear the Story About
Message:
how the 'power' or 'spirit' of Satguru came into Maharaji at his father's funeral? I vaguely remember hearing a story from fanatical premies before I received Knowledge about how it was an actual energy transfer or something that 'made' M the Lord of the Universe. This goes more with the Bodhisattva theory (same spirit keeps being reincarnated as master over and over, doing it just for the service of those on earth who need him/her). I guess that would be the only way that there could be two souls alive at the same time who would be Master. Anyway, anyone else hear this, or was it just a crazy local rumor? Know more about the story?
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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 16:23:50 (EDT)
From: Miss Led
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Re: Anyone Hear the Story About
Message:
Dear Grace,

I heard that story too and often wondered why it happened at eight years old instead of at birth. But like everything else I soon dismissed it as not worth thinking about. One spirit in two bodies - two spirits in one body?
Whatever.

Miss Led

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:09:41 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Grace, honey, that story's no just a story
Message:
With all due respect, your question's like asking a christian if they'd heard the one about the cross. I mean, we're talking fundamentals. Classics. Foundational myths and whatnot.

For an alterantive view, as they say, however, you might want to read the Mishler interview. Mata Ji's brokering BBJ (i.e. Satpal)'s ascendency in the back room (only after the DLM directors wouldn't let her be Lord of the Universe). Meanwhile the kid gets annointed in public by a faction of mahatmas. It was a done deal and irreversible. Irreversible, that is, until Maharaji and Raja Ji marry western devotees (read 'sluts'). Then all bets were off. Brothers go to court and make asses of themselves.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 16:41:24 (EDT)
From: Miss Led
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Grace, honey, that story's no just a story
Message:
Jim,

Do you know what happened in this court case? Do you think it's kosher to talk to the lawyer on this case about it or is it a no-no for lawyers to talk about their cases? Please ge me in.

Miss Led

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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 23:20:22 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Grace, honey, that story's no just a story
Message:
he told the story a few ways.
When he touched the ashes of dadguru, he heard a voice
that told him he was it. And also once in bed at night.
And when his father had died, and before the funeral,
he said he sat on a little hill and started to meditate and
felt himself going outward expanding. I'll have to get the
words but these are close.
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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 06:36:34 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: The strange case of the expanding guru
Message:
The only one I recall him talking about was when he said he was sitting on a swing and he heard a voice saying, 'You are he' etc and then he felt himself expanding outwards. Maybe that's why he got so fat.
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Date: Tues, Sep 28, 1999 at 22:21:16 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Oh, he called me honey...
Message:
Sorry, I didn't realize how universal the story was or that people actually believed it. That story was one of those things I heard once and pushed to the back of my mind and pretended I never heard so I could get on with the business of receiving Knowledge and then becoming a true, Maharaj Ji- (how it was spelled at the time)loving premie. I blew off the weird stuff easily because I was never around it and talk of it quickly faded to nothing (I'm sure it was agya) so I never had to think about it after that. How nice for the premies after me who never heard it so they could just be normal people learning meditation from a nice Indian fellow, continue eating meat and everything.
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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 02:52:09 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: To Grace
Message:
I was told that he and his dad had the same soul and that while they were both alive the soul was 'split' between the 2 bodies.
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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 10:24:30 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: 'Little Buddha'
Message:
Jethro,

The split soul reminds me of the movie 'Little Buddha' where the Buddhist monks go looking for the reincarnation of their master in children and discover it was split into three children's bodies. Good movie, check it out.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 06:50:49 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Let's get this straight once and for all
Message:
Look, there's all these silly rumours and myths going around about who Maharaji is and his Dad etc. So I'll put the record straight once and for all:

Shri Hans was Joseph

Satpal/Balbagwan Ji is Jesus and also Vishnu the preserver

Raja Ji is Brahma the creator

Bola Ji is Shiva the destroyer

Mata Ji was the Virgin Mary

Marolyn is Durga Ji, some Tiger goddess or something

And of course, Maharaji is GOD, the father.

Other subsets are:

Bihari Singh is Arjuna

David Smith is Saint Paul

Mahatma Guru Charnanand Ji is Saint Peter

Glen Whittaker is another of Jesus's disciples (take your pick from the remaining eleven, except Judas)

And WE are all manifestations of darkness, born to be with the Lord as his enemies.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 20:35:25 (EDT)
From: Miss Led
Email: None
To: Sir Dave & All
Subject: A new Game (lila)
Message:
That's funny!

I was thinking today.... remember m talked about lilas alot. Premies say that's his lila etc.... well I was thinking what I could say to him on the phone and it was something like this: Hi m, I've decided I don't want to play your game (lila) anymore. I want to play a new game and I am the boss. I can experience God if I want to after all the 'creator' made me and it definately wasn't you. You had a fun game going there for a while but it got awfully dull. I'm going to mock up a new game (lila) where I am happy much more of the time than I was when I was a follower of you. I know there will be ups & downs in life but you never said there wouldn't anyway. Thankyou for those meditation techniques I will use them when I feel like it but no longer need you to tell me endlessly what is true and what is false. I have learnt to be at cause over my mind instead of being afraid of it. I have learnt a lot from you, some good and some bad. I liked the vegetarian recipes I learnt in the early days. I met some good people although I'm not sure if you were one of them as I never really got to know you after all that time. Instead of telling people to WALK in a crabby kind of voice when they decide to leave why don't you say, 'Well done, now it's time to go it alone. That's the way you came in and that's the way you go out. All the best. I'm only a human being too.' It's been fun but time to move on.

Love,

Mis Led

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:02:48 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Don't forget this minor, but potent, myth
Message:
Thanks Dave,

But there's also one of my personal favorites. No, not that Anne Johnston was the incarnation of .... sorry, Anne. No, don't worry, I would never really make fun of you.

No, I like the one Mahatma Tejeshwarand fed us when we had that big program in Nelson, B.C. Sorry, for any of you who've heard this before, but it's just the best goddammed mahatma story I know.

Nelson is in the middle of a beautiful mountain valley in central B.C. The mountains are called the Kootenays. The whole area and Nelson in particular was a big hippie enclave in the early seventies. Maharaji's cult made a real splash there and one of the biggest moments in DLM/EV's funny history in the valley was the night Tej gave satsang to what must have been the whole valley. Hundreds and hundreds of people came out to hear him excitedly proclaim that he was 'with Jesus!' Like he was having this vision of being one of the original apostles at the very moment he was giving satsang to us all. I know. I was there to play a few songs with our cult band from Vancouver. Hell, we all got blasted.

So, last summer Gary Ockendon and I were talking about Tejeshwaranand's sex life back then. He was in Vancouver for months and during that time he took over one of the side-by-side ashrams for his harem. He seduced a few local girls who waited on him hand and foot and ... well, I was in the other house, wasn't I? He even had his girlfriend from the states (Philly?) flown up at one point.

So Gary and I are talking about this. Then Gary mentions that Tej even got a Nelson girl pregnant.

'But that's not possible, Gary. He was only in town that one night that we had that big program and after the program he spent the whole night giving knowledge to three sessions of hungry, eager souls.'

Who could forget those knowledge sessions? More than half the people excitedly reported seeing Maharaji and other great sports heros in the light. There was a lot of grace. It was incredible.

'Well,' Gary smirked, 'there was one point when Mahatma Ji aksed me to take over giving the light [illegal!!] so he could 'take a rest' as he put it.'

Oh no!', I said, in my naive surprise. Where was I when all this fun was happening? Meditating? Singing arti?

Anyway, the woman had the baby apparently. That's what Gary said, anyway.

Neat, eh? I wonder who she saw in the light that night.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:07:01 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Don't forget this minor, but potent, myth
Message:
Nobody peeked? Not once? I know I did NOT peek in my knowledge session. I was scared shitless I was going to get decapitated.

Has Mr. Rawat called you back yet? Have you checked to see if they have changed the # yet?

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:12:21 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Re: Don't forget this minor, but potent, myth
Message:
Sounds like no one peeked, doesn't it?

No, he hasn't called me back yet. And I'm not going to bug him either. He's got my message. I'm not trying to prove that even cult leaders can get harrassed. Any PAMs reading this can tell Maharaji that he can relax, at least as far as I'm concerned, in terms of changing his number. I mean, it's not ask if I'm asking for my money back or anything. And if he doesn't want to call back, well taht speaks for itself, doesn't it? I guess being perfect means never havign to say you're sorry, right?

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 11:17:46 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: agree Jim
Message:
The guru 'forgives himself completely'!
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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 10:28:15 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: And What's the Deal With l
Message:
Guru Charanand being called Guru? I've heard him referred to this way many times in the past, but lately just as Charanand. How did he get to be a guru? And whose guru is he anyway?
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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 10:40:38 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Re: And What's the Deal With l
Message:
He was a guru before he became a devotee of Maharaji and was allowed to keep his title.

Anyone help regarding this: Is his name Charanand or Charnanand? I'm sure I saw it spelled as Charnanand before.

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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 14:15:19 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol.com
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: And What's the Deal With l
Message:
NAH...
Don’t you remember all his satsangs about how MJ came to him when he was just a simple boy (rhymes with moi!)?
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Date: Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 10:45:04 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Guru Charnanand
Message:
I think...I thought that the guru in guru charnanand was in reference to his relationship to the guru

Like Mahatma Guru Worshiper, Mahatma Guru Footkisser Mahatma GuruSecretkeeper soemthing like that....

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Date: Thurs, Sep 30, 1999 at 16:35:49 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Re: Guru Charnanand
Message:
Guru Charanand means 'he who attains bliss at the feet of the master'.

prempal made him drop the 'guru' in the attempt to de-Indianise his 'mission'.

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