Forum Administrator -:- Lost Posts -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 19:41:59 (EDT)

__ Marianne -:- Delete multiple EV/Jagdeo posts? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 20:27:03 (EDT)

Larkin -:- Larkin's journey (part 1) -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 19:37:55 (EDT)

__ Robyn -:- Re: Larkin's journey (part 1) -:- Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 01:49:56 (EDT)

__ bb -:- Re: Larkin's journey (part 1) -:- Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 00:35:33 (EDT)

AJW -:- Abi's Story -:- Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 08:38:35 (EDT)

__ __ Katie -:- To Abi -:- Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 18:31:18 (EDT)

__ __ Brian -:- Maharaji - You Gutless Worm -:- Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 11:03:44 (EDT)

__ Nigel -:- So Charanand knew and did nothing..? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 20:36:35 (EDT)

__ Shp -:- Re: Abi's Story -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 20:19:21 (EDT)

__ JW -:- Re: Abi's Story -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:19:56 (EDT)

__ __ Shp -:- Imagine the MEMO.... -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 21:36:16 (EDT)

__ Susan -:- Re: Abi's Story -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:03:31 (EDT)

__ __ AJW -:- The trumpets are blowing. -:- Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 08:21:42 (EDT)

__ Marianne -:- EV: PRODUCE JAGDEO FOR A POLICE INTERVIEW -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:58:37 (EDT)

__ Robyn -:- Re: Abi's Story -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:53:42 (EDT)

__ __ AJW -:- Susan and Abi -:- Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 07:59:38 (EDT)

__ __ __ Augustina -:- Re: Susan and Abi -:- Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 12:56:19 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- To Augustina -:- Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 13:22:30 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Augustina -:- Re: Susan and Abi -:- Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 13:01:29 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Shp -:- St. Anth, finder of lost things fervently being sought -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 21:20:24 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Alas Sandy... -:- Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 08:34:02 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- just two wild and crazy guys -:- Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 11:53:57 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Fred -:- Charanand's incorrect data. -:- Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 14:35:01 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Lil Catholic Boy -:- How the prayer goes -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 21:24:18 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Lil Jewish boy with evangelical leanings -:- Re: How the prayer goes -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 21:50:19 (EDT)

Forum Administrator -:- The Thread Below -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:34:15 (EDT)

__ Susan -:- Oprah today about Child Molestation -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:38:59 (EDT)

__ __ susan -:- more on this show -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 20:55:07 (EDT)

__ Susan -:- Please try to repost for Abi -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:09:29 (EDT)

__ __ Robyn -:- Re: Please try to repost for Abi -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 21:31:11 (EDT)

__ JW -:- Can you get rid of the empty posts? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:42:27 (EDT)

__ __ Forum Administrator -:- The Empty posts? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:49:24 (EDT)

Shp -:- Something is malfunctioning here -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:31:03 (EDT)

__ Forum Administrator -:- See above (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:13:52 (EDT)

Marianne -:- FORUM DISRUPTION -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:30:52 (EDT)

__ Forum Administrator -:- Please bear with us. -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:10:11 (EDT)

AJW -:- Abi's Story -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 14:39:19 (EDT)

__ Shp -:- Re: text -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:50:47 (EDT)

__ Shp -:- Re: EV letter -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:53:37 (EDT)

__ __ Marianne -:- Re: EV letter -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:11:03 (EDT)

__ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Can I copy and use anything on this site in my EV letter? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:23:47 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ JW -:- Re: Can I copy and use anything on this site in my EV letter? (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:26:53 (EDT)

__ Shp -:- Re: Your last post -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:25:04 (EDT)

__ Susan -:- Re: this was Robyn's post I copied it -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:38:39 (EDT)

__ __ __ Shp -:- What's in a Name? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:22:13 (EDT)

__ Marianne -:- EV: PRODUCE JAGDEO FOR POLICE INTERVIEW (text) -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:44:53 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Re: That's not an answer -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:21:22 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Re: That's not an answer -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:36:17 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: That's not an answer -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:04:58 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Okay, Marianne -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:44:34 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: Okay, Marianne -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:51:53 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Re: That's not an answer -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:39:53 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Re: That's an answer -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:22:08 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Re: That's an answer -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:27:13 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Re: That's an answer -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:30:06 (EDT)

Mickey the Pharisee -:- I'm back! -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 14:27:48 (EDT)

__ Susan (Gmom) -:- Re: I'm back! -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:43:38 (EDT)

__ bb -:- Re: I'm back! -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:33:31 (EDT)

__ Shp -:- Re: You're back! -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 15:46:10 (EDT)

Grace -:- To Barney re: computers -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 10:51:25 (EDT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- Re: To Barney re: computers -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 11:13:07 (EDT)

__ __ Fly -:- Re: To Barney computers -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 12:51:24 (EDT)

__ __ __ Grace -:- Question re: Fly's P.S. -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 15:29:56 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Fly -:- Re: Question re: Fly's P.S. -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 21:15:23 (EDT)

__ __ __ JW -:- Re: To Barney computers -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 13:52:26 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: To Barney computers -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 16:33:47 (EDT)

__ Grace -:- P.S. Watch 'Reboot' on -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 10:58:10 (EDT)

__ __ Grace -:- Why Would Maharaji -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 15:38:40 (EDT)

__ __ __ barney -:- Security stuff -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:23:15 (EDT)

Jim -:- Is premie net action stillborn? -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 23:09:05 (EDT)

__ JW -:- Re: Is premie net action stillborn? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 12:59:09 (EDT)

__ Ian -:- Heart of Darkness -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 00:11:28 (EDT)

__ __ Another brick in the wall -:- Re: Heart of Darkness -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 00:34:50 (EDT)

__ __ __ H. Applewhite -:- Re: Heart of Darkness -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 05:50:37 (EDT)

__ __ __ Ian -:- The Thrill is Gone -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 00:46:57 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ SysAd Neat Villa Inc. -:- Ooh I feel naked now -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:10:20 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Ian -:- beans -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:22:35 (EDT)

Jim -:- Hey, what about us??! -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 22:36:19 (EDT)

__ Monmot -:- Re: Hey, what about us??! -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 22:48:34 (EDT)

Amtext Man -:- Amtext, anyone? -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 16:42:44 (EDT)

__ Liz -:- Re: Amtext, anyone? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:24:04 (EDT)

__ Joey -:- Re: Amtext, anyone? -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 22:09:14 (EDT)

__ __ Enough -:- Re: Amtext, anyone? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 03:35:42 (EDT)

__ __ __ JW -:- Just A Short Summary -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 09:43:56 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Enough -:- Thanks(nt) -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 15:10:12 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: Just A Short Summary -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 12:54:36 (EDT)

__ __ __ Joey -:- Re: Amtext, anyone? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 07:55:00 (EDT)

__ __ Marianne -:- Re: Amtext, anyone? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 00:08:54 (EDT)

__ __ __ Joey -:- Re: Amtext, anyone? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 07:43:01 (EDT)

__ __ Amtext Man -:- Re: Amtext, anyone? -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 22:21:38 (EDT)

__ __ __ Joey -:- Re: Amtext, anyone? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 08:47:10 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Amtext man -:- Re: Amtext, anyone? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 22:37:04 (EDT)

__ __ Amtext Man -:- Re: Amtext, anyone? -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 22:18:31 (EDT)

__ Ian -:- you'd do better selling yourelf -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 20:40:42 (EDT)

__ __ Amtext Man -:- Re: you'd do better selling yourelf -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 22:25:28 (EDT)

__ __ __ Joey -:- Goodnight my sweet but silly Amtext Man -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 00:28:25 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Competition man -:- Re: Goodnight my sweet but silly Amtext Man -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 22:41:36 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Re: Goodnight my sweet but silly Amtext Man -:- Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 00:02:23 (EDT)

__ __ Jim -:- Don't sell your elf whatever you do! -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 20:51:10 (EDT)

__ __ __ Snow White -:- Jim, hand em over..... -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 10:29:53 (EDT)

__ __ __ Anon -:- Re: Don't sell your elf whatever you do! -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 05:06:26 (EDT)

__ __ __ kmdarling -:- Re: Don't sell your elf whatever you do! -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 02:48:05 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Elf! I've fallen and I can't get up! -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 11:10:28 (EDT)

__ __ __ Ian -:- here, pull my finger.(nt) -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 20:54:19 (EDT)

Jerry -:- Cool Website (OT) -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 16:09:14 (EDT)

__ Sir Dave -:- The end of a lifetime myth -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 19:15:39 (EDT)

__ __ Robyn -:- Re: The end of a lifetime myth -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 20:11:49 (EDT)

Dr Octopus -:- CHARITY COMMISSION - INvestigation? -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 08:15:38 (EDT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- What do you suggest ? -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 09:18:27 (EDT)

__ __ Fred -:- Re: www Charity Commission U.K.? -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 12:59:03 (EDT)

__ __ __ Know It All -:- Re: www Charity Commission U.K.? -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 13:21:23 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ kmdarling -:- Re: www Charity Commission U.K.? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 02:53:54 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: www Charity Commission U.K.? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 11:19:42 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Right -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 12:24:15 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- ALSO -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 12:38:23 (EDT)

Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 19:41:59 (EDT) From: Forum Administrator Email: None To: All Subject: Lost Posts Message:

As you all know there is a BIG problem with the forum this evening. I have tried to replace lost posts in the Abi Story thread but sadly to no avail. I have retrieved many lost posts from my own Cache file so they aren't totally lost. They will all be reposted together when thing are cleared up.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 20:27:03 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Forum Administrator Subject: Delete multiple EV/Jagdeo posts? Message:

Forum God: Could you try to delete one or 2 of the Jagdeo/EV posts that appear under my name so that people do not think I am goofy? Thanks, Marianne

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 19:37:55 (EDT) From: Larkin Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: All Subject: Larkin's journey (part 1) Message:

Well my daddy left when I was ten and seven went to join the lord in heaven kinda shook me up as these things do there was nuthin mean he ever did for me but I wish right now he coulda made me see there ain't no truth in a boy they named guru... And my brother went when I was twenty-three so I'm the man now of the family and I'm shakin like a leaf is prone to do and I wanted truth, and I wanted love and I wanted to meet the lord above and I was learnin 'bout a boy they named guru... But my mother said the kid is full of shit but I didn't want to hear no none 'bout it cause the Jesus crap she taught me just weren't true 'cause I'd done the whole damn baptist scene from the days when I was young and green so I signed up with the boy they named guru... 'coz I'd heard the word from my deadbeat peers holy satsang spillin outa their ears and a smile so wide it musta been held on with glue and they told me all about the bliss within ya don't need no drugs, not a bottle of gin ya just kiss these lotus feet of that boy guru... But it took a while, another year or more till I came a-knockin on heaven's door 'bout the time my brother wasn't gonna make it through satsanged nine months every night till I din't know jus' what's wrong or right so it's: 'My name is guru - How do you do?!!' So this gangly dude they call David Smuff unveiled the holy juju stuff how to watch your breath and poke yer eyeballs too and he taught me 'so' and he taught me 'hung' and he told me where to place my tongue and to taste the holy snot of the boy guru... And I plugged my fingers in my ears I chewed the carpet so sincere (I guess there 're stranger things that you could do) But I can't say I was was overcome with bliss - they said your time will come just trust the word of the boy they named guru... And I wasn't happy and I wasn't sad (could be I was just three parts mad) but I found a home there in that premie crew and my heart was full of this devoti'nal song and I knew them all and I sang along even learned to love that ugly child guru... The way you learn to love a wart that's grown there on your hand - is now a part of every single thing you do and you can't believe that happiness exists outside this goddam holy mess you're in at the feet of the boy guru... He said the time was gonna come real soon (you'd see the cow go over that moon) when the world would come to know His Word was true he said 'twenty years ... in my lifetime' it's a good job lyin ain't a crime 'coz the child was full of crap, that boy guru... And it wasn't long before I joined them all outside the happy program hall waitin' hours on end in that thar darshan queue and you don't care 'bout the burnin' sun ya just tell yourself you're still havin' fun 'coz it's time to meet the lord they named guru... I was tremblin' like a wanton maid standin' afore the reaper's blade but I knew for sure what I wus s'pposed to do get holy breath, then quickly dive and hope you get out that tunnel alive 'coz you dared to soil the feet of the boy guru... So I cupped that right hand to my ear to catch the breath that I held so dear an' I blissed out it when the good lord gently blew then I crawled out to the morning light a sweet in hand, in the sunshine bright 'coz that's what I'd been placed on earth to do... So now I'd made it to the club here's no more sad nights down the pub 'coz all that maya crap just wasn't true and I had my own real darshan tale (shame I hadn't known real ale!) Such is life in the cult of a boy guru... I yearned to be a grain of sand I'd have eaten horse-shit from his hand (in fact I think that's what you gotta do) to cope with them absurdities ya swallow with an absurd ease when you're in the cult of a boy they named guru... So what went wrong? - I'll tell ya later 'bout this guru alligator that snapped up all our souls before we knew the lord who's but a mixed-up kid with oh, so much he must keep hid - the dark past of the boy they named guru... (Here endeth Larkin's Journey, Part 1)

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Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 01:49:56 (EDT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Larkin Subject: Re: Larkin's journey (part 1) Message:

Dear Larkin, I am swooning, regretful tears fall I went to the pool, showered, dressed packed up my nose plugs as per your request. Alas, here I sit in the US of A unbetrothed and pineing away for Larkin my dear, who left me at the altar. Tears run freely and now I am doing my water aerobics in a pool of my own tears. :( Love you still, Robyn

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Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 00:35:33 (EDT) From: bb Email: None To: Larkin Subject: Re: Larkin's journey (part 1) Message:

Larkin, I hope your collection gets its own website because they are all so good. I fergot to print out them all so I dont have your complete collection of gems. Some of your lines are just brilliant.

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Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 08:38:35 (EDT) From: AJW Email: anthginn@yahoo.com To: Everyone Subject: Abi's Story Message:

I received this post from Abi today. I'm forwarding a copy of it to the Police investigating Jagdeo, along with further information about 'Anthony', who I remember hanging around briefly at Wringford. Hi Anth, As Susan has now posted her story I thought I'd do the same. I can't post it myself as my computer is stiff stuffed but could you do it for me. Here is it: My parents first got involved with what was then called Divine Light Mission when I was six. We'd just come back from Spain where, in true hippy style, they'd caught hepatitus after trying very hard to impersonate Spanish peasants and live off the land. We moved to Brighton and soon Mum started going to satsang meetings at the local ashram. The first premies I met were happy young souls who seemed kind, played guitar and sang a lot. Soon we were all going up to London to satsang meetings at the Palace Of Peace. I was entranced by the 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?' film. I thought it was spectacular, that I had entered into a new magical world full of love, peace and kind people. They went off to a festival in Copenhagen and came back very blissed out. By now we had a small alter in the living room. The night they got back we all had to sit in front of the alter and bow down. They then produced a couple of very crumpled and slightly slimy flowers that had, we were told, come from His garland. We had to eat them. We did. Things became stranger still. My young brother started lifing His school diner up to his third eye in order to give thanks to Satguru. Just like we did at home of course. But the food always seemed to get caught in his hair. I taught him how to do it without smearing half his diner all over his head. Poor little boy. I'd pray to Guru Maharaj Ji to let me stay home from school. I accepted very quickly that he was the Lord of the Universe. Soon we'd moved to London and were staying in a family ashram. School consisted of children's satsang and drawing big pictures of Swans and hearts. We all felt very special and free. All I wanted to do was to be a premie, to get knowledge, to spread His Word. I went to as much satsang as possible. Then a large group of us went down to Unity School in Wringford. It was a very beautiful place full of children and young people. We loved the countryside and would wonder about for hours in the woods, across the fields, the cliffs. I'm not sure where our parents were though. It seemed as though we were just left to our own devices. The sleeping arrangements kept changing. For a while we lived in a chapel which my brothers and I almost burnt down one night while our parents were at satsang. We lived on the cliffs too and would walk to Wringford in all kinds of weather. Most of the adults there were gentle people looking for peace and love. But some of them were very strange. Roland was very violent and had fits in which his eyes would roll into the back of his head. he would scare the women and we ran whenever we saw him. Anthony was more insidious. he wanted to play games with us All the time but the games always became violent and scary. he'd puch us On the swings until we almost fell off. he'd pick us up and throw us onto the bed until our heads banged against the wall and we cried and ran off. Once he made me lie down naked and got the boys to line up and fondle me. I remember feeling totally powerless and confused. I wa a tomboy and now all my power had been taken away from me and I had been turned into a strange sexual object at only seven. I somehow realised that it was because I was a girl that this was happening. I wanted them to stop but they pined me down. I was scared of Anthony. Our boundaries got very blurred then. The relationship between sister and brother was polluted by what he made Us do. Our boundaries and mine especially became even more damaged when Jagdeo stayed at Wringford. I was deperate for my parents approval and so had put a lot of energy into becoming a perfect little devotee. I thought Mahatma's were semi-divine, enlightened beings who were spreading peace throughout the world. I felt very honoured that he wanted to spend time with us. he invited us all into his special room. He gave us Indian sweets and told us how much he missed his own children in India. He talked to us for a while. I think they call it 'grooming'. Then he made us all lie down in a Circle on the floor because he was going to play a very special and exciting Game with us all and we had to do what he told us to do. He kept on Repeating that. He asked for our consent and we, of course, gave it to him. He seemed on edge and I became scared. The game was that we had to ask him to lie on top of us in turn. He lay on top of each of us and rubbed his erection on our young and small bodies. Some of us giggled. There were boys in that room too. He started panting and focused on me. I was the oldest child there. I was seven. The youngest was about four. He wanted me to plead with him to lie on top of me. I felt as though everything was unreal. He made me beg him. He started really rubbing himself on me and then he suddenly got up and told the others to leave the room because he wanted to play a special game with me. That I was the best child to play with and the game meant that we had to be alone in the room. He locked the door behind the others. I was so scared that I couldn't move. I wanted to leave with the others. Hated it when they said goodbye. He was deformed. One of his eyes was a lot bigger than the other. From that point my memory is very fractured. I can remember Trying to focus on a picture of Gurur MaharaJ Ji which was on the opposite wall. I pleaded in my mind for protection. I just tried to blott out what Was happening by pretending that Maharaj Ji loved me. I didn't want to look at what was happening to my body so I left my body and dissapeared into the picture. It was the first time I practiced what they call 'depersonalisation'. I can't go back there ever again. This is very hard to do. After that I was Jagdeo's special friend. My parents were very glad that a holy man was taking such interest in me. He wanted to teach me to play chess. But we never finished a game. I would sweat with fear. I remember washing my sweating palms once when he let me go to the Bathroom and praying to Guru Maharaj Ji for protection. I looked out of the Window from his room and saw a group of premies on the lawn and I wanted so Much to open the window and scream for help but I had lost all my power. It Was as though I didn't really inhabit my own body anymore. I didn't know Who to tell so I told my brother Ivan because he'd been there when Jagdeo Had played the first game with us all. He tried to tell my mother. In his childish way he said 'Mum, I think Jagdeo fancies Abi'. My mother just laughed and said of course he doesn't and carried on as though nothing had happened. I gave up then. He was a holy man after all. I didn't know what was real. I became disturbed about going to bed, frightened of nameless things. My body seemed distant, a thing of disgust. I got sick and stared at the curtains in my bedroom the way I'd stared at that photo in Jagdeo's room. I practiced becoming catatonic. I had nightmares which weren't nightmares about a long, hard, smooth object. Years later I told my father what had happened and he was Outraged and told a lot of premies about it. He even spoke to Charanand. But of course nothing was ever done. They close ranks. They protect their own. I know this has damaged my life and there are parts of that Event which I don't ever want to remember. It left me with a sense that my Body didn't belong to me. It left me with the ability to utterly shut off reality. To withdraw so far inside myself that nothing external could ever hurt me. I used to think of it as a little room inside myself that I could walk into and shut the door of. There was always a window to look out of though. I could always see out of that room but no one could ever touch me or see me or hear me. Part of sharing this is my attempt to wrench myself out of that room. To inhabit my body again after all these years. To finally undo the damage. It stands to reason that Jagdeo has done this to many children. I know that he has damaged many other lives satisfying his sick, perverted lust. Who knows what sort of damage he's done. How many young lives have been destroyed. And all in the name of Love. I just hope that one day he'll be brought to some kind of justice. I hope that someone, somewhere can find him. Anth: that was very hard to do. I feel pretty exhausted. But it was illuminating too , to put it into words. It made me realise things I hadn't before. That I do need to escape that room. Must go. Feel pretty shaky. Thanks for being there for me. call me sometime. The time difference is that you're about eight hours behind. take care and remeber that you and Dot were by far the very best premies there. We all love you for the care you showed us then. Abi

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Date: Sun, Sep 26, 1999 at 18:31:18 (EDT) From: Katie Email: mishkat@gateway.net To: Abi Subject: To Abi Message:

Dear Abi - I don't know if you remember, but we corresponded about your story via e-mail a while (maybe a year and a half?) ago. I have alluded to your story about Jagdeo several times on the forum (without giving any details), in order to support Susan, and in order that people might know that Jagdeo was NOT a one-time abuser - that this was a continuing problem and that many children of premies may have been victimized by it. I am amazed by your courage in telling your story in public - I know those memories must be awful to re-live. I cried when I read the parts of your story about 'depersonalizing' yourself, about praying to the picture of Maharaji, and about withdrawing to that little room with a window. I was abused as a child, although certainly not as overtly as you were, and I do understand about that little room. It's hard to get out of that space once you've been forced in there in order to survive. I hope that you, I, and all the people who have been abused on this site (and there are a lot of us) can someday feel safe enough to come out of that little room. I wish so much that there had been an adult who had helped you and Susan when both of you needed it. I am very glad that Susan kept on telling her story (in the face of criticism and disbelief), and that Anthony is here for both of you, and that you were able to tell your story to him - I know it must have been so hard to do. Abi - you, Susan, and Anthony are among the bravest people I know. Although the rest of us ex-premies are here to support you, you three are really on the front lines of this issue. I admire your courage so much - all I can say is that I, and many people, are here to support the three of you if you need us. With admiration, and lots of love, Katie

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Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 11:03:44 (EDT) From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Maharji Subject: Maharaji - You Gutless Worm Message:

Prempal Rawat - Either respond PUBLICLY regarding Mahatma Jagdeo's abuses, or I will make these reports the center-piece of Ex-Premie.Org. There are many more people out there who are closing ranks in order to protect you, and they need to hear from you PUBLICLY that it's okay for them to no longer repress the hurt and damage that has been caused to them merely to protect your public image. You are gong to be loved in Malibu when this all comes out unless you publicly respond now. Personally, I hope they roast your fraudulant ass...

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 20:36:35 (EDT) From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: AJW Subject: So Charanand knew and did nothing..? Message:

One line said it all: 'praying to Guru Maharaj Ji for protection.' We were all taught to do that. Thanks for an honest and chilling post. Nigel

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 20:19:21 (EDT) From: Shp Email: None To: Forum Administrator Subject: Re: Abi's Story Message:

The above 'Abi's Story' is Anth's post, not mine.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:19:56 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: AJW Subject: Re: Abi's Story Message:

Thanks to Abi, Anth and Susan (in alphabetical order) for all their courage and determination. As I said below, reading Abi's story made me very sad and also raging mad, almost simultaneously. I just wanted to say, that Susan said she told Randy Prouty about Jagdeo in 1977 and later Judy Osborne told her that Maharaji had already known about Jagdeo. But the big question is: what was done? I also wanted to say that I am personally aware that Jagdeo was touring in the USA, and probably elsewhere in the world, after 1977. He still had the power position as a mahatma/initiator, among people who were completely unaware of what he had done. I personally believe Maharaji had a duty to stop Jagdeo from touring and being in the position where he could molest children again. I also recall several big programs after 1977, at which Jagdeo was a featured, and very revered, speaker. Down below and I asked the resident lawyers whether Maharaji might have liability if we assume Randy told Maharaji about Jagdeo in 1977 and Jagdeo engaged in child abuse after 1977. One of our resident lawyers said she didn't care to give an opinion, which sounded to me an awful lot like what a lawyer would say.:) I won't repeat the story about taking Jagdeo to see a schlocky Indian movie in Chicago in 1978. Just let it be said that I was in a DLM position of authority in four different communities after 1977, and I recall Jagdeo being in at least two of them during that period and I was NEVER informed about any problem with Jagdeo having access to children and as far as I know no one else in those communities was informed either.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 21:36:16 (EDT) From: Shp Email: None To: JW Subject: Imagine the MEMO.... Message:

DATE: Late 1970's TO: JW, Community Coordinator - Anycity, the World FROM: DLM/EV RE: The Coming of a Great Soul to Your City By the Grace of Maharaji, it gives us great pleasure to inform you that Mahatma Jagdeo will be coming to your city in the very near future for a one week sojourn. He will be conducting satsang, Knowledge sessions and reviews, and questions and answer meetings for premies and aspirants. He will require accomodations at the ashram, a personal premie assistant, special meals, (menu to follow), a new car and driver, a 35" (minimum) color TV, VCR and private line telephone in his room. Also, he will need access to an indoor swimming pool and outdoor tennis courts. For the safety and welfare of the members of your community, please be sure to keep him away from little children, especially but not limited to, young girls. Thank you for your cooperation.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:03:31 (EDT) From: Susan Email: None To: AJW Subject: Re: Abi's Story Message:

Dear Abi, Your post made me cry. It is very powerful to see it here. You were an innocent child, who instead of being cherished and protected, was horribly violated and hurt, and then ignored. The way you wrote your story is so moving because it recreates the world of a premie child, the context in which this ocured, and the incredible hurt you endured would be impossible for anyone with a heart to ignore. I think that even premies will be moved by this, and want justice. I hope the guru whose picture you pleaded to while you were being attacked has had to read your story. I love the movie 'the Little Princess', and my favorite line is 'all little girls are Princesses' and you Abi, should have been treated like the princess you were. Your friend, Susan

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Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 08:21:42 (EDT) From: AJW Email: None To: Susan Subject: The trumpets are blowing. Message:

Hi Susan, I think that you and Abi speaking out about this is having repercussions nobody could have imagined. Because I haven't seen Abi since she was about twelve, and I 've never met you in person, I have a picture of an 8 year old Abi, and a 14 year old American girl, standing in front of a massive, thick wall, blowing trumpets. The girls are small, and the walls are gigantic. The smallest girl has been blowing for 25 years, the older about 20. Suddenly, a crack appears, and spreads, like a tree, rapidly up the wall. You're both brilliant. Anth, heading for Jericho.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:58:37 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: EV Monitors Subject: EV: PRODUCE JAGDEO FOR A POLICE INTERVIEW Message:

EV: We know that you monitor this site. Abi has now disclosed that she was the victim of multiple child molestations by Jagdeo. Susan has made a similar allegation. Jagdeo was the representative of Maharaj Ji and DLM/EV when these acts are alleged to have occurred, all across the globe. Jagdeo is alleged to have used his special position within the organization to perpetrate these despicable acts. It is now time for EV to produce Jagdeo for interviews by any interested law enforcement agencies. EV should notify the London and Miami police about these incidents, disclose Jagdeo's location, and voluntarily produce him for any interviews a police agency requests. It is up to the police and prosecutors to decide if a prosecutable offense has been committed, not EV. This is the only honorable course of action. Marianne Bachers

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:53:42 (EDT) From: Robyn Email: None To: AJW Subject: Re: Abi's Story Message:

Jesus Anth, Abi's literally heart wrentching account, ripped out of her by herself to bring this all to the open and I sorely hope to start her healing process in earnest. Please thank her for me as it sounds like she can't see this site. As always this is the worst wrongs of the cult worse then keeping young adult children from their families in general in when in need, worse then the horrid stories Bill and Charlie have written. These babies had no choice, misguided or otherwise to make. They were trashed, their lives, their futures. I have seen that individuals were far from valued but the little innocent faces, loved by so many adults, left in harms way but blind love and devotion, turns my stomach. I want to hurt that mahatma and that Anthony but only frustrated tears come to me. Fuck! I hope this is stopped, all those sweet babies of premies still today put in harms way. For Abi though, I hope her healing can proceed no matter what happens to that scum asshole. My love and caring to you Anth and to Abi, Robyn

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Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 07:59:38 (EDT) From: AJW Email: anthginn@yahoo.com To: Robyn Subject: Susan and Abi Message:

Hi Robyn, I knew Abi and her family well when they lived in England. She was, and still is, a beautiful person. I haven't seen since her family moved back to Australia, and she must have been about 12 then. I saw her father on a visit to England more recently. He stayed with us for a few days, and told me that back at Wringford, around the time of Unity School, Jagdeo had sexually abused her. When I left the cult, I wrote my story and put it on the Ex-Premie website. What Abi’s father had told me about Jagdeo had niggled away inside my mind, and I took the opportunity of making it public, by mentioning it my ‘Journey’. I made contact with Abi through the Ex-premie website, and let her know when I published my 'Journey' there. It was a way of letting her know I had written something about Jagdeo and knew what had happened to her. She responded immediately, with lots of questions, ‘ Who was the child?’ ‘How did I know?’ and so on. The more I communicated with her, the more her anger rubbed off on me. It is infectious. She has been hanging on to it for a long time. It’s also dangerous, like an armful of hand-grenades. I’ve known Glen Whittaker, head of the cult in the UK, for years. After I published my ‘Journey’ I received a personal letter from him. I replied, bringing up the question of Jagdeo. His reply dodged the issue. Around this time, Susan, then posting as g-mom, another of Jagdeo’s victims, posted her account of Jagdeo’s abuse of her and a younger friend. When I went down to Cornwall this summer, I reported Jagdeo to the local police. Around the same time, the ‘Sunday Express’ became interested in the story. I mediated between Abi, Susan and the reporter. Both were very keen to see the story in print and were interviewed over the telephone, as was I. The Sunday Express suddenly dropped the story. The reporter was extremely angry, They were considering naming Jagdeo in the story, but it was dropped for ‘commercial reasons’. Another British paper, the ‘Sunday Telegraph’ picked up on it, but they also dropped it at the last minute. Around the same time, I received an official letter from Elan Vital, saying they were going to their lawyers if I insinuated that the cult or its leader knew or condoned the ‘alleged’ activities. (These letters are preserved on ‘The House of Drek’, ‘Best of the Forum’), and are down below somewhere. All this time I was in close communication with Abi and Susan, and it felt like the three of us were suddenly in the midst of a battle. We were bound together, watching all sorts of stuff happen both outside and inside ourselves. I was emotionally dragged through a hedge, but I’m sure they went through much more than I did with it all. They are both incredibly strong women, and they have truly been an inspiration to. So many times, dealing with the police, the press, the premies, trying to make sure what was happening was what Susan and Abi wanted, I ran out of gas. They always came charging up behind me, saying, ‘Screw them. Let’s carry on.’ And so we did. We didn’t know where we were going, or how it would end, and we still don’t. But Susan and Abi’s courage is making us all face up to our responsibilities. The fact that they’ve had to wait so long before we all took notice is a credit to them and an indictment on us. A strange things that’s come out of this, prompted by Elan Vital’s threat to go to their lawyers if I mentioned that Elan or Maharaji knew about, or in any way condoned what was going. Well, it seems like the cult did know what was going on. Randy Prouty, Judy Osbourne and Mahatma Gurucharanand, were all reported as being told about it. And as regards Maharaji knowing, Susan tells us that both Judy and Randy passed the information on to Maharaji. Aside from what happens in terms of the law, and the cult, Abi and Susan speaking out, and acting to bring Jagdeo to justice has helped us all to deal with this injustice. It is part of the healing process. Ever since this started, and the three of us got together, events have taken their own, natural course. We never tried to get publicity. The press came to us, we didn’t go to them. Once the letters, and threats of action, started, events took on a momentum of their own, and they haven’t stopped yet. There’s a beautiful, burning strength in both Abi and Susan, and it’s been a privilege to know both of them. Anth, Servant of the Sisters.

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Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 12:56:19 (EDT) From: Augustina Email: not given To: AJW Subject: Re: Susan and Abi Message:

My heart is with all of you. I just read Abi's letter. I am so, so sorry. I have a daughter who was raised in the light of DLM. But I was basically always with her. She is completely immersed in the inner world of the guru as we speak. Question, does the decision to stop having children attend programs have anything to do with Jagdeo? I can't remember exactly when the 'no children' at programs became 'divine law.' I am so outraged that 25 + years of me trying to stay away from 'illusions' of the 'world' has really meant 25 + years of dealing with the 'real' illusions and delusions of DLM and EV! FFFUUCCCKK AAALLL OOFF TTHHEEEMMM! I hsve found the most 'Reality' right here on this website. THANK YOU ALL! AND my heart and soul and mind and thoughts are all with you!!!! You humble me.

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Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 13:22:30 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Augustina Subject: To Augustina Message:

Augustina: Thank you so much for the posts you have made over the last couple of days and welcome to the Forum. We are glad to have you here and we welcome your strength. As women, as mothers or caretakers of children, we share a special outrage about the abuse of other females. Abi's and Susan's stories are horrifying, especially because 'God' did not protect them. The idea of Abi praying to a picture of M to protect her while Jagdeo was assaulting her is almost unbearable. The fact that this information may help someone else to escape the clutches of the cult is one of the reasons this information was posted. We all deeply appreciate your contribution here. Could you tell us some more about yourself, if you feel comfortable doing that? When and where did you receive Knowledge? Were you in the ashram? Sometimes people do not want to reveal this sort of information, so if you do not want to do so, it's fine with me. I am always curious about new people. Once again, thanks for being here and for supporting Susan/gmom and Abi. Marianne

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Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 13:01:29 (EDT) From: Augustina Email: None To: Susan and Abi Subject: Re: Susan and Abi Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 21:20:24 (EDT) From: Shp Email: None To: AJW Subject: St. Anth, finder of lost things fervently being sought Message:

Anth: My wife, who was raised Catholic and has been reading this htread with me today, remembered that when she was little, those of her faith would pray to St. Anthony when they had lost something really precious and were looking for it real hard. I don't think it will go to your head, but it is inspiring. Shp

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Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 08:34:02 (EDT) From: AJW Email: None To: Shp Subject: Alas Sandy... Message:

...I don't believe in 'Saints' any more. If I had to nominate anyone for sainthood, it would be people like my mother, who struggled all her life to bring up two children in a difficult, poor environment. There are millions of women like her all over the world. I remember Sir Dave talking about his dad once, and it touched me. Ordinary people are the saints around here. They probably outnumber the rest of us, but we don't notice them, because they quietly get on with it. I read a story once, that St Anthony was reputed to have tripped out on ergot. Maybe he was a midnight toker too,- hence the memory loss thing. St Anth the Facetious.

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Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 11:53:57 (EDT) From: Shp Email: None To: AJW Subject: just two wild and crazy guys Message:

A friend once told me that a saint is an asset to the Creator and a sinner is a liability. I just remembered something that Charananand said: 'A saint is someone who minds his own business.' I guess Abi's problem wasn't his business. Shpissed off but in control Shp

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Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 14:35:01 (EDT) From: Fred Email: None To: Shp Subject: Charanand's incorrect data. Message:

Dear Shp, As an ex who was taken in by Charanand; he looked so much like a saint with his pink robes and gentle face and parables from the bible, unlike the lard who I always had trouble with, I was amazed that he said, quote 'A saint is a person who minds his own business.' This disgusts me as it does seem to be the Elan Vital philosophy these days. A bunch of smug, fakely blissed out people , some with shiney, innocent, blissed out faces pretending that unethical acts don't happen here and I'm all right, Jack. I'm really beginning to think my old friend Glen must be a very unethical person (unless he is in the process of doing something to expose the awful child abuse that went on in the 70's) as head of the Elan Vital Cult U.K. I know he has three beautiful children and would not want anything like this to happen to them, not to mention miragi's children. I also happen to know that one of Maharaji's close PAM chaffeurs beat up and left his wife in a pretty awful state and she still literally follows miraji and helps set up his phoney stages around the world. I really want to encourage you Brits out there to report what you know to the British Charity Commission. People should not continue to support such an unethical 'Charity.' ps. Glen if you are reading this, swallow your macho pride and admit that you've been head of a farce for almost thirty years. Contact the charity commission and reveal all about Visions & Elan Vital. Stop using your areas of strength for the propogation of lies and cover-ups. Best Wishes, Fred. O.K. meditation makes your face shiney but it doesn't irradicate unethical acts in the real or unreal world whichever way you look at it. Face up to REALITY - translation to premies: illusion.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 21:24:18 (EDT) From: Lil Catholic Boy Email: None To: Shp Subject: How the prayer goes Message:

Saint Anthony, Saint Anthony please come around Shp's lost his marbles and they must be found

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 21:50:19 (EDT) From: Lil Jewish boy with evangelical leanings Email: None To: Lil Catholic Boy Subject: Re: How the prayer goes Message:

No, silly! Shp lost his mind. And that's one thing You'll never find. Little Charlie Cameron, Who collects glass beads Mr. Hesse sells down the way Your help he needs. He disavows GMJ Just wrote it off And went his way. ahem, cough, cough Stood on soapbox Swaying masses Writing books And teaching classes Getting fame and money too Now chips are down And Charlie flew.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:34:15 (EDT) From: Forum Administrator Email: None To: All Subject: The Thread Below Message:

Aplogies to everyone for the disruption below. The messages began appearing twice on the Forum, once at the top, and once in a thread below. I deleted what I thought were duplicates, in the lower thread, and inadvertantly deleted the messages at the top too. If, and I hope it's not the case, but it maybe, the messages have gone for good. I can only hope you have copies and can post them again. My sincere apologies. It's the first time this has happened, and it couldn't have happened at a worse time. Forum Administrator.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:38:59 (EDT) From: Susan Email: None To: all Subject: Oprah today about Child Molestation Message:

A friend just called me and told me. I mentioned a recent sports illustrated article and apparently they have the people from that article. It was very powerful and obviously timely.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 20:55:07 (EDT) From: susan Email: None To: all Subject: more on this show Message:

I watched it today. It was excellent. It was eerie in one respect. There was a man who had been molested by his coach over 20 years ago, the same man from the Sports Illustrated article, This man hired a private eye to track down his molester, who was STILL a coach, and was responsible for putting a stop to molestation the man was involved in 20+ years later. Oprah's website has a little about it. I will post a link and some quotes from it. http://www.Oprah.com/show/scoop.html Friday's Show: Little League Pedophiles Preying On Children Dropping your son off for baseball practice into the hands of his Little League coach may seem safe but today's guests tell us that youth sports not only attract hopeful athletes; but pedophiles as well. More and more evidence suggests that child molesters are getting jobs as coaches, seducing not only the child but the parents into thinking they are a friend of the family. Norman Watson is currently serving a child molestation sentence of 84 years, but not before betraying the trust of 'hundreds' of children. Two of his victims talked with Oprah today: Jimmy, 19, and Mike, 34. Both knew other boys were being molested, but being only boys themselves were unsure how to stop it. Mike was eleven when the molestation began, and it haunted him for decades. When his own children began playing sports it set a trigger off, causing Mike to investigate what happened to Norman Watson. When he discovered Watson was still coaching Little League in another state, he blew the whistle. Seeing Jimmy, Mike said made him 'feel like crying for not saying something sooner.' Jimmy first met Norman Watson when he was ten, but the molestation did not begin for three years. Norman Watson became 'part of the family', Jimmy's parents said and not only broke a trust with Jimmy but them as well. Jimmy said that the coach, a trusted authority figure, asking you to pull your pants down made as much sense as the doctor asking it during a physical exam. 'I thought it was related to baseball.' Jimmy finally told his parents of the sexual abuse that lasted for two years when he was 18. Ten-year-old Adrian was the first child to tell on his Little League coach, Garen Pearson. Pearson is awaiting trial on thirty-nine counts of sexual abuse. Adrian says he was 'pretty lucky actually' that the abuse only lasted six months. Adrian's mom says the abuse not only happens to the child or parents but 'affects the whole family' including siblings and grandparents. Part of the difficulty, says Adrian is 'you don't know how they are going to touch you' until it is already happening. Joe was a rising baseball star when coach John Jay Davidson took a sexual interest in him. Davidson ran overnight sports camps as well as a prestigious baseball team, making boys easy access. Joe said Davidson gave the perception that everyone else already knew what was going on. 'It seemed very open.' Joe's mom questioned Joe and when he said the coach is 'really not my friend', she knew something was wrong. Joe finally broke down to a family friend, after quitting school and withdrawing from his world. Four days before Davidson was to stand trial for the rape of Joe and another boy, Davidson committed suicide. Child sexual abuse expert Cordelia Anderson says we don't teach boys safety like we teach girls. Jimmy's dad says he wishes he had told his sons 'the hazards of men in ditches' as he did Jimmy's sisters. Oprah stated that 'parents need to talk about it in real terms' to our kids. A difficult conversation that needs to happen. Don Yaeger, editor for Sports Illustrated, wrote a special report for parents regarding the dangers of these pedophiles in the September 13th issue. Don spoke with Norman Watson who was extremely clinical in his description of 'infiltrating the family'. Don said we need to keep in mind these pedophiles are seducers, who charm not only the child but the parents. 'They do say they love children' making it difficult for them to think they are doing anything wrong. Norman Watson told Don that he didn't realize 'he was hurting people' until Jimmy said he was afraid to ride around with any older men. Tips On Keeping Your Child Safe: If your state allows background checks, look up those adults who are in contact with your child. Don't just drop your child off at sport practices or youth activities. Many predators avoid children who have watchful parents that are active in their children's lives. Volunteer to chaperone extracurricular activities like Boy Scouts and sporting events, especially those involving overnight trips. Make a strong effort to know your children's friends and their families. Let your child know that sexual advances from adults are against the law. Build their confidence so they can say no to an adult. Encourage children to recognize, trust and follow their instincts — and listen to your own instincts. Notice changes in your child's behavior. Be alert to anyone who is paying an unusual amount of attention to your child or yourself — buying gifts, phoning all the time, dropping by the house, etc. Remember what your child is wearing each time they leave the house. If you'd like a transcript of today's program, or any program, click here to order one from Burrelle's Transcripts for five dollars. Click here for Past Shows. - Back to top - Today's Show Past Shows Books Seen on Oprah Oprah's Angel Network In the Works Get Tickets to the Show Show Transcripts Where & When Oprah's On Oprah's Bio Frequently Asked Questions FEATURED GUESTS Don Yaeger - Associate Editor for Sports Illustrated (see Additional Info. for more) Cordelia Anderson - Child Sexual Abuse expert ADDITIONAL INFO Sports Illustrated Magazine Who's Coaching Your Kid? September 13, 1999 issue Protecting Your Child b

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:09:29 (EDT) From: Susan Email: IamSusan@ivillage.com To: Forum Administrator Subject: Please try to repost for Abi Message:

Dear forum participants and lurkers, It meant a lot to me to get the support I have here. I think it would mean just as much, if not more, to Abi. Since she at this time does not have access to the site ( she does have email though) either Anth or I will forward the posts to her. Or you can write to me, or Anth, and we can forward Email. It is a very powerful thing to see that people really do care. I had copied Robyns post already and mailed it to her. It was so moving. Thanks. Susan

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 21:31:11 (EDT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Susan Subject: Re: Please try to repost for Abi Message:

Dear Susan, So glad you saw the show, had my mind churning. Thanks also for copying my post for Abi. Love, Robyn

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:42:27 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: Forum Administrator Subject: Can you get rid of the empty posts? Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:49:24 (EDT) From: Forum Administrator Email: None To: JW Subject: The Empty posts? Message:

JW At the moment, we're trying to retreive the messages so we can replace them under their headings. If we can't do this soon, we'll delete them. Meanwhile, I'll restart the thread. Forum Administrator.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:31:03 (EDT) From: Shp Email: mcpass1@earthlink.net To: All Subject: Something is malfunctioning here Message:

I have clicked on a number of posts that I have not read yet, and all the contents boxes have been empty. Anybody else experiencing this? It just started happening a little bit ago. Shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:13:52 (EDT) From: Forum Administrator Email: None To: Shp Subject: See above (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:30:52 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: All Subject: FORUM DISRUPTION Message:

Posts are being deleted from the forum all through the Abi thread. What is happening???? Marianne

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:10:11 (EDT) From: Forum Administrator Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Please bear with us. Message:

Marianne, The posts were mistakenly deleted by myself (see above). We are presently trying to retreive them and are having some success. The result may be that the text is replaced in the thread below, and added to the thread above too. Forum Administrator

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 14:39:19 (EDT) From: AJW Email: anthginn@yahoo.com To: All Subject: Abi's Story Message:

I received this post from Abi today. I'm forwarding a copy of it to the Police investigating Jagdeo, along with further information about 'Anthony', who I remember hanging around briefly at Wringford. Hi Anth, I'm slowly recovering from a series of very stressful and quite absurd relationships. Tell me all men aren't raving mad! Anyhow, as Susan has now posted her story I thought I'd do the same. I can't post it myself as my computer is stiff stuffed but could you do it for me. Here is it: My parents first got involved with what was then called Divine Light Mission when I was six. We'd just come back from Spain where, in true hippy style, they'd caught hepatitus after trying very hard to impersonate Spanish peasants and live off the land. We moved to Brighton and soon Mum started going to satsang meetings at the local ashram. The first premies I met were happy young souls who seemed kind, played guitar and sang a lot. Soon we were all going up to London to satsang meetings at the Palace Of Peace. I was entranced by the 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?' film. I thought it was spectacular, that I had entered into a new magical world full of love, peace and kind people. They went off to a festival in Copenhagen and came back very blissed out. By now we had a small alter in the living room. The night they got back we all had to sit in front of the alter and bow down. They then produced a couple of very crumpled and slightly slimy flowers that had, we were told, come from His garland. We had to eat them. We did. Things became stranger still. My young brother started lifing His school diner up to his third eye in order to give thanks to Satguru. Just like we did at home of course. But the food always seemed to get caught in his hair. I taught him how to do it without smearing half his diner all over his head. Poor little boy. I'd pray to Guru Maharaj Ji to let me stay home from school. I accepted very quickly that he was the Lord of the Universe. Soon we'd moved to London and were staying in a family ashram. School consisted of children's satsang and drawing big pictures of Swans and hearts. We all felt very special and free. All I wanted to do was to be a premie, to get knowledge, to spread His Word. I went to as much satsang as possible. Then a large group of us went down to Unity School in Wringford. It was a very beautiful place full of children and young people. We loved the countryside and would wonder about for hours in the woods, across the fields, the cliffs. I'm not sure where our parents were though. It seemed as though we were just left to our own devices. The sleeping arrangements kept changing. For a while we lived in a chapel which my brothers and I almost burnt down one night while our parents were at satsang. We lived on the cliffs too and would walk to Wringford in all kinds of weather. Most of the adults there were gentle people looking for peace and love. But some of them were very strange. Roland was very violent and had fits in which his eyes would roll into the back of his head. he would scare the women and we ran whenever we saw him. Anthony was more insidious. he wanted to play games with us All the time but the games always became violent and scary. he'd puch us On the swings until we almost fell off. he'd pick us up and throw us onto the bed until our heads banged against the wall and we cried and ran off. Once he made me lie down naked and got the boys to line up and fondle me. I remember feeling totally powerless and confused. I wa a tomboy and now all my power had been taken away from me and I had been turned into a strange sexual object at only seven. I somehow realised that it was because I was a girl that this was happening. I wanted them to stop but they pined me down. I was scared of Anthony. Our boundaries got very blurred then. The relationship between sister and brother was polluted by what he made Us do. Our boundaries and mine especially became even more damaged when Jagdeo stayed at Wringford. I was deperate for my parents approval and so had put a lot of energy into becoming a perfect little devotee. I thought Mahatma's were semi-divine, enlightened beings who were spreading peace throughout the world. I felt very honoured that he wanted to spend time with us. he invited us all into his special room. He gave us Indian sweets and told us how much he missed his own children in India. He talked to us for a while. I think they call it 'grooming'. Then he made us all lie down in a Circle on the floor because he was going to play a very special and exciting Game with us all and we had to do what he told us to do. He kept on Repeating that. He asked for our consent and we, of course, gave it to him. He seemed on edge and I became scared. The game was that we had to ask him to lie on top of us in turn. He lay on top of each of us and rubbed his erection on our young and small bodies. Some of us giggled. There were boys in that room too. He started panting and focused on me. I was the oldest child there. I was seven. The youngest was about four. He wanted me to plead with him to lie on top of me. I felt as though everything was unreal. He made me beg him. He started really rubbing himself on me and then he suddenly got up and told the others to leave the room because he wanted to play a special game with me. That I was the best child to play with and the game meant that we had to be alone in the room. He locked the door behind the others. I was so scared that I couldn't move. I wanted to leave with the others. Hated it when they said goodbye. He was deformed. One of his eyes was a lot bigger than the other. From that point my memory is very fractured. I can remember Trying to focus on a picture of Gurur MaharaJ Ji which was on the opposite wall. I pleaded in my mind for protection. I just tried to blott out what Was happening by pretending that Maharaj Ji loved me. I didn't want to look at what was happening to my body so I left my body and dissapeared into the picture. It was the first time I practiced what they call 'depersonalisation'. I can't go back there ever again. This is very hard to do. After that I was Jagdeo's special friend. My parents were very glad that a holy man was taking such interest in me. He wanted to teach me to play chess. But we never finished a game. I would sweat with fear. I remember washing my sweating palms once when he let me go to the Bathroom and praying to Guru Maharaj Ji for protection. I looked out of the Window from his room and saw a group of premies on the lawn and I wanted so Much to open the window and scream for help but I had lost all my power. It Was as though I didn't really inhabit my own body anymore. I didn't know Who to tell so I told my brother Ivan because he'd been there when Jagdeo Had played the first game with us all. He tried to tell my mother. In his childish way he said 'Mum, I think Jagdeo fancies Abi'. My mother just laughed and said of course he doesn't and carried on as though nothing had happened. I gave up then. He was a holy man after all. I didn't know what was real. I became disturbed about going to bed, frightened of nameless things. My body seemed distant, a thing of disgust. I got sick and stared at the curtains in my bedroom the way I'd stared at that photo in Jagdeo's room. I practiced becoming catatonic. I had nightmares which weren't nightmares about a long, hard, smooth object. Years later I told my father what had happened and he was Outraged and told a lot of premies about it. He even spoke to Charanand. But of course nothing was ever done. They close ranks. They protect their own. I know this has damaged my life and there are parts of that Event which I don't ever want to remember. It left me with a sense that my Body didn't belong to me. It left me with the ability to utterly shut off reality. To withdraw so far inside myself that nothing external could ever hurt me. I used to think of it as a little room inside myself that I could walk into and shut the door of. There was always a window to look out of though. I could always see out of that room but no one could ever touch me or see me or hear me. Part of sharing this is my attempt to wrench myself out of that room. To inhabit my body again after all these years. To finally undo the damage. It stands to reason that Jagdeo has done this to many children. I know that he has damaged many other lives satisfying his sick, perverted lust. Who knows what sort of damage he's done. How many young lives have been destroyed. And all in the name of Love. I just hope that one day he'll be brought to some kind of justice. I hope that someone, somewhere can find him. Anth: that was very hard to do. I feel pretty exhausted. But it was illuminating too , to put it into words. It made me realise things I hadn't before. That I do need to escape that room. Must go. Feel pretty shaky. Thanks for being there for me. call me sometime. The time difference is that you're about eight hours behind. take care and remeber that you and Dot were by far the very best premies there. We all love you for the care you showed us then. Abi

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:50:47 (EDT) From: Shp Email: None To: AJW Subject: Re: text Message:

In a nutshell, which is where this whole travesty belongs and where the perpetrators should go, I said that I have about had my fill. More to follow.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:53:37 (EDT) From: Shp Email: None To: JW Subject: Re: EV letter Message:

JW, I intend to write EV. Can I copy and send things from this site to make my point? Write soon, Shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:11:03 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Shp Subject: Re: EV letter Message:

Shp: You can send anything I have written on this site to EV, and I wish you would. Don't hold your breath. Marianne

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:23:47 (EDT) From: Shp Email: None To: Marianne / AJW / JW Subject: Re: Can I copy and use anything on this site in my EV letter? Message:

I want to include Susan's story, Abi's story, and maybe Anth's recent post to someone below encapsulating the whole chronology which I found easy to read and comprehend. Please let me know as soon as possible. Weird thing is, if they are monitoring this place, they already know the facts, know I plan to write, etc etc. Strange scenario,being observed like that. Well, for all those who are observing this unfolding human story with no heart feelings for the victims and just trying to do some sort of damage control, OBSERVE THIS! It feels like this matter was handled in a primitive and antiquated style - favoring an 'elite' and mistreating the 'masses', trampling individual human rights - from an age that I thought was on the way out, and the young Lord was going change all that. This is a microcosm of the very thing I detest and been against all my life. Unbelieveable, but there it is, even after I blink and rub my eyes, there it is. I used to respect Charanand alot.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:26:53 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: Shp Subject: Re: Can I copy and use anything on this site in my EV letter? (nt) Message:

You can send anything I've written and I can't speak for anybody else, but I think anything on this forum is public information and you can send it to anyone you want to.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:25:04 (EDT) From: Shp Email: None To: AJW Subject: Re: Your last post Message:

AJW Nothing came through on your last post. Shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:38:39 (EDT) From: Susan Email: None To: all Subject: Re: this was Robyn's post I copied it Message:

: Posted: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 15:57:56 (EDT) Original: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 14:39:19 (EDT) Posted by: Robyn Recipient: AJW Email Address: Not Provided Browser Type: Mozilla/4.06 [en] (Win95; I) Subject: Re: Abi's Story Message: Jesus Anth, Abi's literally heart wrentching account, ripped out of her by herself to bring this all to the open and I sorely hope to start her healing process in earnest. Please thank her for me as it sounds like she can't see this site. As always this is the worst wrongs of the cult worse then keeping young adult children from their families in general in when in need, worse then the horrid stories Bill and Charlie have written. These babies had no choice, misguided or otherwise to make. They were trashed, their lives, their futures. I have seen that individuals were far from valued but the little innocent faces, loved by so many adults, left in harms way but blind love and devotion, turns my stomach. I want to hurt that mahatma and that Anthony but only frustrated tears come to me. Fuck! I hope this is stopped, all those sweet babies of premies still today put in harms way. For Abi though, I hope her healing can proceed no matter what happens to that scum asshole. My love and caring to you Anth and to Abi, Robyn

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:22:13 (EDT) From: Shp Email: None To: AJW Subject: What's in a Name? Message:

Anth, My wife and I have been reading this thread today like breaking news. She, being Catholic, told me that she remembers as a child whenver anyone in their faith would lose someting and was searching for it fervently, they would pray to Saint Anthony to help them find it. It was his gift. Brother Shp PS Would anyone who is thinking about respopnding negatively to this thread please stuff it this one time? Anth, you of course can do whatever you wish, it's addressed to you.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:44:53 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: EV Monitors Subject: EV: PRODUCE JAGDEO FOR POLICE INTERVIEW (text) Message:

EV: We know that you monitor this site. Abi has now disclosed that she was the victim of multiple child molestations by Jagdeo. Susan has made a similar allegation. Jagdeo was the representative of Maharaj Ji and DLM/EV when these acts are alleged to have occurred, all across the globe. Jagdeo is alleged to have used his special position within the organization to perpetrate these despicable acts. It is now time for EV to produce Jagdeo for interviews by any interested law enforcement agencies. EV should notify the London and Miami police about these incidents, disclose Jagdeo's location, and voluntarily produce him for any interviews a police agency requests. It is up to the police and prosecutors to decide if a prosecutable offense has been committed, not EV. This is the only honorable course of action. Marianne Bachers

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:21:22 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Re: That's not an answer Message:

Jerry: I'm not a lawyer, but what I think Marrianne is saying is that whether or not there is a statute of limitations for child abuse depends on the jurisdiction. Each state in the USA is different, and each country is different. Apparently there may be NO statute of limitations for child abuse in California. I saw that case Marrianne mentioned when Jim posted it a few days ago.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:36:17 (EDT) From: Jerry Email: None To: JW Subject: Re: That's not an answer Message:

JW, What I want to know is if there is no statute of limitations in the jurisdiction where this particular crime was committed. If so, it makes sense that Marianne implore EV to fulfill their obligation to assist the authorities. Otherwise, it doesn't.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:04:58 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Re: That's not an answer Message:

Jerry: I understand what you are saying. I know about California, where I live and practice law. I am only going to offer information about this state. I do not want to comment any further about the potential legal repercussions. It is not my responsibility. Marianne

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:44:34 (EDT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Okay, Marianne Message:

Marianne, I don't want to press the matter. I was just trying to clear up some confusion I had about it. Let's just hope that everybody finds the healing they need as a result of the investigation. That's the most important thing.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:51:53 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Re: Okay, Marianne Message:

Jerry: No problem at all. Questions are welcomed. Sometimes I just have to refrain from answering them. I, too, hope for healing for those who have been harmed. But I also feel that Maharaji, DLM/EV and other people who are responsible, should take responsibility for these events, among others, as I have stated above, under my full name. The guy IS NOT Creator, Destroyer, Preserver.... Bring Jagdeo forth and let the chips fall where they may. Marianne

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 17:39:53 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Re: That's not an answer Message:

Jerry, there is more than one jurisdiction here. Florida and England are two we know about, but there are likely more. But even before you get to an issue of statute of limitations you have to do an investigation, which is apparently being done by the London police as we speak.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:22:08 (EDT) From: Jerry Email: None To: JW Subject: Re: That's an answer Message:

Thanks, JW. It seems odd to me that an investigation would be the first step if a statute of limitations is in effect. Why bother if you can't bring the criminal to justice? But if the investigation turns up evidence that Maharaji knew, that in itself would make it worthwhile.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:27:13 (EDT) From: Susan Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Re: That's an answer Message:

Maybe the reason the investigation is the first step is that you need to know what the crime is before you know what the statute of limitations is for it?

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:30:06 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: Susan Subject: Re: That's an answer Message:

Right, and you have to get some kind of report on what really happened, when it happened, where it happened and to whom. One thing I will say as a general rule, is that the statute of limitations is usually stayed until they reach the age of majority, which is usually 18 or 21. So, for Abi, being a child, aged only 7 when she was abused, the statute, if there is one, might not even start running until she turned 18 or maybe 21. That is something else they would have to figure out.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 14:27:48 (EDT) From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: All Subject: I'm back! Message:

Hi Kids, Now that I am finally settled here in Panamá, I will start checking this site again. When I left, oh so many months ago, the premies had been told to stay away, leaving us with the Catweasel as sole representative. I notice that the evil shp has returned and that there are new folks, too. I'm not able to spend too much time on line at that moment, so I'd appreciate an email from someone helping me catch up on what's been going on. My e-mail address is: mgdbach at hotmail.com (this keyboard is set-up for español, so es muy difícil doing things correctly, I can´t do the little 'at' symbol without my secretary; I´m writing from the church office). Hope to hear from someone soon. Padre (Faddah) Mickey

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:43:38 (EDT) From: Susan (Gmom) Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Re: I'm back! Message:

Glad you are back Mickey the P

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:33:31 (EDT) From: bb Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Re: I'm back! Message:

You should take the time to read the forum now. We are in the middle of big doings.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 15:46:10 (EDT) From: Shp Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Re: You're back! Message:

'I notice that the evil shp has returned'. -Mick That's pretty strange language from one who has taken a vow not to judge, but to love. Better get a Panama hat, the sun is strong down there. Do that whole tropical Father fashion thing... Shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 10:51:25 (EDT) From: Grace Email: None To: All Subject: To Barney re: computers Message:

Barney, Love your show! My kids used to also, and sometimes while I'm cleaning I still sing some of the songs I learned, can't seem to get them out of my head. Anyway, I have a question re: email and I know you're the technological genius (or should I say 'Master') in these parts so... How can getting email from someone mess up your computer? Also, if one goes thru hotmail or yahoo service is it screened out and somehow safe? Enlighten me oh Master of Technology, let me have a small tidbit of your vast Knowledge. (Sorry to be off topic, though)

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 11:13:07 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Grace Subject: Re: To Barney re: computers Message:

No email will EVER mess up your computer. The problem may arise with a file linked (attached to that email). A virus has to be included in a progamme (software) linked to the email - or in a word (*.doc file), excel (*.xl* file), or a document including a java program - linked to the email message - in order to do anything in your computer. One simple thing: never open such files attached to an email received from someone you don't personnaly know, and when you know what this file is about! Before opening such a file, your email software will warn you anyway, and ask you what you want to do with it.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 12:51:24 (EDT) From: Fly Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Re: To Barney computers Message:

Just like to add a ps to this. You should also be aware that the net is a very transparant medium, and it is known that hackers are able to gather information about people in your email address lists, either by hacking your ISP server - been done, even if they deny it - or by looking back into your PC while your are visiting their websites (yes they can do this, not all webmasters are pillars of society like Barnable) Armed with this information, they can 'spoof' the IP header to disguise themselves and send you email which appears to come from one of your own friends, complete with virus attachment. One way to protect yourself from this is to copy any attachments to disk before opening them, and run a Virus scan on them first. Not infallible, but gives you some protection. Another way, if you are really paranoid and your computer is 'your life' is to buy a cheap used PC or laptop just for email purposes. Any old 486, P1 or early Mac will do, does need too many bells and whistles on it. That way if you are virus attacked, you can, worst case, Format your hard drive and reload all your software again. Let's be careful out there!

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 15:29:56 (EDT) From: Grace Email: None To: Fly Subject: Question re: Fly's P.S. Message:

So you're saying if I have an old PC (my kids do), I use it for email and in worst case scenario I would just have to resinstall original disk that came with it which includes programming and the boot disk, but doesn't otherwise make the computer unusable. So I guess the big deal about the viruses is that you lose all the info. on the computer, such as work projects or other important docs. Am I right? Oh, thanks to all who answered.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 21:15:23 (EDT) From: Fly Email: None To: Grace Subject: Re: Question re: Fly's P.S. Message:

Grace, Essentially yes, although unfortunately there are some virii out there which will actually cause your computer to think the hard drive itself is bad, and simply won't boot up at all. Similarly, there are others which can actually get into your BIOS (Boot In-Out System, the absolute core which starts all the other things, including the hard drive, in motion) and/or RAM and corrupt them also. In either of those scenarios your only option is, I'm afraid, to take it to a competent professional, or start practising Knowledge again and just 'trust' it will come back to life :) (I'm kidding) But apart from the major doom examples above, most virii are usually only disruptive of .dat, .dll, and similar program-specific files, which is bad enough because they will screw up months of work (which you do back up religiously, don't you?). So the 'sacrificial' spare computer idea is a good one if you are worried about this. You can also use this for downloading files and programs, and running Virus check on them before installing them on your main computer. Fly

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 13:52:26 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: Fly Subject: Re: To Barney computers Message:

I have an AOL ISP at home and I have noticed lately that I have been getting a number of emails claiming to be from AOL saying I can get a free month of service if I 'register' with them. They ask for my password, as well as other information. AOL says repeatedly that they will NEVER ask for your password, so although these emails look very authentic, with AOL masthead and what looks like an AOL form. But they aren't from AOL and god only knows what would happen if those people got hold of your password.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 16:33:47 (EDT) From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: JW Subject: Re: To Barney computers Message:

On my unix machine at work I have a mail reader that allows me to edit headers. I could send you email from M himself with a reply to barney. It is quite simple. Do not reply to the messages at aol forward the whole message to AOL support and let them track them down or block them. There are 2 components to email the MUA which reads and writes mail and a MTA which moves mail between machines (mail transport agent)

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 10:58:10 (EDT) From: Grace Email: None To: Barney Subject: P.S. Watch 'Reboot' on Message:

Cartoon Network. Computer animation with characters with names like 'Glitch', etc. that live inside a computer. It's on at 4:30 EDT.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 15:38:40 (EDT) From: Grace Email: None To: Grace Subject: Why Would Maharaji Message:

want to put cookies on my machine? Do you think it's like a Big Brother thing where he monitors the sites you visit? It doesn't make sense, because there are so many visitors to his site, it would be possible or practical to monitor them. Also, if he tracks how many go between premie and expremie sites, he still has no way of knowing what side you 're on anyway. I may be paranoid, but since I changed computers, I won't visit the site with the new one because I don't want the cookies. I guess I'm just not sure why, I don't like the thought of his cookies on my machine. His legal garbage says if someone is using your machine or your 'I.D. #' to notify them. Why? Anyone have any ideas?

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 18:23:15 (EDT) From: barney Email: None To: Grace Subject: Security stuff Message:

Grace, Here's a simple little overview that I grabbed off of CNN that might help you on a number of topics here. As the article says, it's pretty difficult to get by without allowing cookies on your machine. I've tried it and it's a tough go. Fortunately cookies are not that bad. Oh, I just found the link to CookieCentral. Unfortunately, as soon as you hit their page they're going to want to dump a Microsoft Active-X control onto your machine (much worse than cookies.) You can accept the MS Active-X control or not. Or you can go to the CookieCenteral Faq and avoid the active-x control. However, reading CookieCentral it does appear that evil webmasters do in some cases have the ability to read cookies from other domains. It was previously thought that this was not possible. JUNKBUSTERS Check on Remote Ident Variable is a good page to goto to see if your browser is showing your name. JunkBusters has all kinds of information like cookies, telemarketing, junk mail, etc.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 23:09:05 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: All Subject: Is premie net action stillborn? Message:

Look at the facts: 1) Harlan's lame site dies from apparent disinterest, bad form and lousy music. No one used it, no one went there. It was a joke. 2) CD's site (which only exists because he took it over from David who started the thing in an expansive moment [i.e. during a manic phase]) is a tentative, unused conversation pit where the occasional premie drops in, scratching his head and asking aloud 'what the fuck ...?'. Of course, it's Chris's own damn fault. He's curtailed discussion there enough times to drive the point home that the only conversation that can safely take root there is CD-style. (That's a joke. Get it? Conversation? CD-style? Come on, give it up! I just made a funny. Okay, fuck you too. Well, at least I thought it was funny. Come on! Conversation CD-style? Think about it!) 3) The Australian 'Appreciation' site, a minor knockoff of ELK, offers a few tepid testimonials and ... what? Nothing? Talk about disappointment, I'm just about ready to drop it as my home page. Like nothing's happening there. Is there even a there there (a la D. Parker)? Hardly. 4) ELK gets a bit of publicity which is all it takes to scare off one of its founders, the renowned and virtuous man of wisdom, Astrologer J. Cainer. So the site crawls along the edges of the net, not wanting any real attention. No scandal, please. No real info. No real engagement. They initially promised some sort of forum (once they 'mastered the technology'). Well, dear brothers and sisters, that dream's dead, hate to tell you. The ELKies know now better than ever that the premie world is bursting with confusion and malaise. There's no way in the world they're going to let that pus seep through the bandage. (Sorry!) Plus, they dropped the longer whitewashed stories that once gave the site so much je ne sais quoi, so much bon vivance, so much ... elan vital. One wonders just how much Wit and Wisdom's enough, no? I find myself starting to ask these questions. 4) The Visions sites are exciting, true. I admit it's kind of neat to see what country's going to pop up next. I mean, how many members are there in the U.N.? And maybe they'll start selling sew-on badges or something. So there's the collectible aspect, there's that. But, really, these sites are nothing but Hamster trinket order forms. They don't offer any real news like when it might be that the Hamster gets indicted or for what. Real pics of the Hamster at work -- and at play. Thankfully they're not accessible by subscription only. I mean, you'd want some real pictures in that case, wouldn't you? Oh no, please, don't think about it. 5) The Hamster's own site, as an information source or meeting place or, well, anything but shrine for a cult leader is an exercise in shlockey minimalism. Again, nothing's happening there. Fuckface is even too afraid to show the real letters he gets let alone answer them. No, that site ain't springing to life anytime soon. So what's next? Does it matter? The point is these guys cannot talk with one another. They can't talk with the world at large. They can't talk to the press and they certainly can't talk with us. I'd say the Hamster's initial reaction to the internet ('leave it alone, dear premies, there's nothing for us there') was a good one. Too bad.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 12:59:09 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: Is premie net action stillborn? Message:

As Maharaji has actually said, he doesn't believe in democracy and free speech and discussion. Forget it -- he won't even allow 99% of the premies to speak publicly about their supposed experiences, except on heavily censored websites. I think it's very interesting that ELK advertised that there would be some form of open exchange on ELK, but, of course, it never materialized. I think Maharaji wouldn't like it. The ex-sites remain the only forums where you can freely discuss Maharaji. He is way too chickenshit to allow it. Harlan's site was closed down, because to came TOO CLOSE to allowing premies to actually discuss what they believed. But I think Maharaji's site is hilarious. He hasn't lost that childlike belief that his misrepresentations aren't noticed. I keep laughing at his bar graphs on the number of countries he has visited and the number of people he has addressed. Setting aside the veracity, or lack thereof, of the statistics, notice that the graph showing '81 countries' is twice as large as the graph showing '71 countries.' He wants to impress people, but he is so lacking is self-awareness that he doesn't even realize he undermines his own credibility trying to be impressive.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 00:11:28 (EDT) From: Ian Email: None To: Jim Subject: Heart of Darkness Message:

You do know there is private Internet stuff out there for premies? Invitation, software, passwords and so on for those that do uhhh service. For us walking mistakes, maybe it was a mistake in receiving knowledge, the light is hidden as we are not invited and the only light there is, is the ex-premie forum.....the horror.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 00:34:50 (EDT) From: Another brick in the wall Email: None To: Ian Subject: Re: Heart of Darkness Message:

Ssssssssssssssh! Fer Chrissake don't tell 'bout First Class will ya. Less keep sumfin secret. Goddammit if all them X hacks out there knew we all chippered & chattered on our own Super-Secure, Firewall Protected Inpenetrable Intranet, complete with proprietary First Class software (courtesy of SoftArc) and bricked in 24/7 guarded blockhouse holdin' [gasp, air, air....] server....SHIT every wannabe phreak an' phrack wiv a modem would be tryin' ta bust their way in. I mean, how else we gona scramble the troops and sound the jingly Red Alert ev'ry time we sees some Confidential noos leak onto these custard pages. How we s'posed to track down the culprits wivout givin' the game up if we don't got secure communications? Thank Christ them goddam ex's ain't already got access to it....duhhh....you don't suppose...nah, they couldn't have?...they couldn't already be on the inside a FirstClass?...Oooooh shit.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 05:50:37 (EDT) From: H. Applewhite Email: None To: Another brick in the wall Subject: Re: Heart of Darkness Message:

Whether Jagdeo-Gets-Bopped has a "companion" or not is irrelevant from our perspective. However, its arrival is joyously very significant to us at "Maharaji's Gate." The joy is that our Older Member in the Evolutionary Level Above Human (the "Kingdom of Heaven") has made it clear to us that Jagdeo-Gets-Bopped is the "marker" we've been waiting for -- the time for the arrival of the spacecraft from the Level Above Human to take us home to "Their World" -- in the literal Heavens. Our 28 years of classroom here on planet Earth is finally coming to conclusion -- "graduation" from the Human Evolutionary Level. We are happily prepared to leave "this world" and go with Ji's crew. If you study the material on this website you will hopefully understand our joy and what our purpose here on Earth has been. You may even find your "boarding pass" to leave with us during this brief "window." We are so very thankful that we have been recipients of this opportunity to prepare for membership in His Kingdom, and to experience Maharaji's boundless Caring and Nurturing.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 00:46:57 (EDT) From: Ian Email: None To: Another brick in the wall Subject: The Thrill is Gone Message:

Curious, I never read anything about First Class here. Ummm I smell an expose in the works., been boring, maybe I will stay tuned

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:10:20 (EDT) From: SysAd Neat Villa Inc. Email: None To: Ian Subject: Ooh I feel naked now Message:

Great, all we need is another rumor. So we got our own private email network, big fucking deal. Look when you're trying to save the planet, right, you got to have a secure communications channel. Duh! How else we going to co-ordinate ForumWatch™ and MoleFind™? How we going to organize Secret Training Camps and plan our Sunday Express Denials...how else we going to let Jagdeo know the Feds are closing in? Now we got to do an internal sweep just to see if any ex's are plugged in. Shit. Hold on, got a First Class Urgent! Priority-One General Announcement coming in...... Oh boy, now you've done it. Glen's had another coronary. You'll have to excuse me....need to find his Prozac.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:22:35 (EDT) From: Ian Email: None To: SysAd Neat Villa Inc. Subject: beans Message:

I didn't spill them, talk to that other guy using the anonymizer, liked your browser type...gimmie a break

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 22:36:19 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: All Subject: Hey, what about us??! Message:

Filed at 9:21 p.m. EDT By The Associated Press MARSEILLE, France (AP) -- The fraud trial of seven Scientologists concluded Thursday with the defense asking the court to ignore the anti-Scientology rhetoric strong in France. In a 90-minute plea, attorney Jean-Yves Le Borgne urged the judges to escape the media and political pressures that denounce Scientology and the danger it represents.'' The defense asked that all charges be dropped. The trial, which opened Monday, is the culmination of a probe that began in 1990 against regional Scientology leaders in Marseille and Nice for alleged fraud, illegal practice of medicine and premeditated violence. Le Borgne argued, though, that fraud cannot exist in the domain of religion.'' The assistant prosecutor argued Wednesday for up to three years in prison for six church members. He asked the court to use its own judgment on the seventh Scientologist, who denounced the church after three months as a member. The assistant prosecutor refused to debate about whether Scientology was a religion, comparing the Church of Scientology to an octopus, a monster that devours the money of its followers.'' But Le Borgne argued Thursday that that there was no difference between a sect and a religion, because people decided for themselves what was normal and abnormal. The court is expected to hand down a verdict Nov. 15. Many Europeans have long been skeptical of Scientology, whose prominent members include actors Tom Cruise, John Travolta and Kirstie Alley. In France, the Church of Scientology is registered on a list of 173 groups to be tracked for cult activity. On Tuesday, Scientologists flew a delegation to a Vienna meeting of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe to call for the dissolution of France's anti-sect unit. The Church of Scientology explained its complaint against France in a statement on Wednesday, saying the government had refused to engage in dialogue with minority religions.'' The church also described discrimination against Scientologists in France, where they said members had been refused the right to open bank accounts, and teachers had been fired for their affiliation with Scientology. Founded in 1954 by science-fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard, the Los Angeles-based organization teaches that technology can expand the mind and help solve problems.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 22:48:34 (EDT) From: Monmot Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: Hey, what about us??! Message:

Le Borgne argued, though, that fraud cannot exist in the domain of religion.'' Talk about carte blanche...

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 16:42:44 (EDT) From: Amtext Man Email: None To: All Subject: Amtext, anyone? Message:

I talked to an old premie aquaintance recently, who had started doing the amtext thing about a year or two ago. She has her own territory, cruises around in a luxery vehicle, and makes tons of money. She'll scan a few boxes of books with her $3000 super duper scanner that has a database of 10,000 college book titles and makes $500 in seconds. Hmmm, maybe my wife can do this. Hey Joey, whats the name of amtext's competition? 'Hi, Professor Smith, I represent so and so, and I want to buy your demo books!' ' Well thankyou, but I already have an amtext rep who comes regularly.' ' Yes Sir, but did you know a percentage of their commisions goes to the one and only googoo magagugi?! I assure you Sir, my hard earned money goes to support my family, and my son's college fund! If you are interested in learning more about what you are supporting via amtext, please check out this website!' ' And have a nice day!'

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:24:04 (EDT) From: Liz Email: None To: Amtext Man Subject: Re: Amtext, anyone? Message:

I think it's great that when a person (or professor)does a search on Amtext up pops J.M.'s information about Maharaji getting a percentage. I'm sure professors would rather buy books from a charity that was helping less fortunate folks through college. Anyone want to start a charity?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 22:09:14 (EDT) From: Joey Email: None To: Amtext Man Subject: Re: Amtext, anyone? Message:

I talked to an old premie aquaintance recently, who had started doing the amtext thing about a year or two ago. She has her own territory, cruises around in a luxery vehicle, and makes tons of money. She'll scan a few boxes of books with her $3000 super duper scanner that has a database of 10,000 college book titles and makes $500 in seconds. Hmmm, maybe my wife can do this. ____________________________________________________________ If this is in fact what your friend told you, and you believe it, then you've been duped. There's never been a more difficult time to start up a book buying operation. I've already highlited the reasons for this on forum 3, and if you missed it...well too bad. BTW, did your friend tell you about the premie buyers who couldn't even afford the plane ticket so they could accept the invitation to attend the parties at MJ's residence? Or beg the Amtext office to find them roommates to share an hotel room because they couldn't afford the hotel expenses on their own? And then there's this. The scanner that your friend payed Amtext $3000 for, is being offered by a competitor company to their buyers for $1500. But oh, the joy of paying extra for the purpose of stuffing the pockets of Amtexts 'sole beneficial owner!' Also there's no such thing as having a protected territory with Amtext. As soon as you get going, they can always sponsor another buyer in your territory to squeeze even greater profits for themselves and their 'sole beneficial owner,' while undercutting your own business. And if they don't actually do that, they'll hold the threat of future competition over your head to keep you in line. Moral of the story...don't be so trusting in your 'old premie acqaintances'...and if your wife needs to work...tell her to take up lap dancing! Joey

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 03:35:42 (EDT) From: Enough Email: None To: Joey Subject: Re: Amtext, anyone? Message:

I've always wondered, where is the profit made in this business by Amtext or its competitors? They buy these books from the profs. and then turn around and sell them to....?

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 09:43:56 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: Enough Subject: Just A Short Summary Message:

There have been a lot of details posted about Amtext over the past year or so, but, basically, as Joey says, Amtext and the buyers make money on the difference between the paltry sums they pay the professors and the amount the book wholesalers give them for the books. There are likely other arrangements between the wholesalers and Amtext, but that is basically it. Amtext is a cult business. It is run by Maharaji cult members, although there are, apparently, some buyers who are not in the cult, who are not told that it IS a cult business they are working for and that the profits go to the former Guru Maharaj Ji. The business was originally started mostly by ashram residents in the early 80s. Originally, it was partly a fundraiser to help get and refurbish that Boeing 707 plane, the one with the gold toilets, that Maharaji wanted so badly, and which turned out to be something of a financial black hole, which Maharaji dumped soon after he got it because, being the selfish child he is, he saw a plane he thought was even more nifty and asked the premies for even more money to get that one instead. It appears that some premies have made handsome incomes by moving up in the Amtext hierarchy and becoming things like regional managers, but, basically, virtually all the profits of Amtext go to Maharaji personally, and, apparently, Amtext actually brags to the premie-buyers that Maharaji is 'the beneficial owner of Amtext' to keep them motivated to work harder for less money than they should be entitled to. We have been told that Maharaji has held parties at his Marble Mansion in Malibu for the premie Amtext buyers, thanking them for all the money with which he has lined his pockets and bought more marble. We have speculated that the IRS might be interested in the situation with Amtext and Maharaji, but it may just be that Amtext just turns its after-tax profits over to the former Lord of the Universe, and, unfortunately, that might just be completely legal. But I agree with you, professors might be interested that they are turning their books and related profits over to cult-members whose ultimate goal is keeping their cult leader living like the Sultan of Brunei.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 15:10:12 (EDT) From: Enough Email: None To: JW Subject: Thanks(nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 12:54:36 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: JW Subject: Re: Just A Short Summary Message:

JW: Thanks for posting this information. Marianne

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 07:55:00 (EDT) From: Joey Email: None To: Enough Subject: Re: Amtext, anyone? Message:

Amtext buyers essentially ship their books to two distributors, the primary one being MBS Textbook Exchange in Columbia, Missouri. MBS is essentially the wharehouse operation for Barnes and Nobles, so there's no shortage of their own retail outlets that they can redistribute the books to. Amtext is essentially the 'broker' between buyers and wholesaler, collecting a healthy cut for generating a network a buyers and administrating payments to them. Joey

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 00:08:54 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Joey Subject: Re: Amtext, anyone? Message:

Joey: Is there any legal document or corporate document that says M is the sole beneficial owner? I thought that there wasn't, but that it was plain that M got all the profits. For all those new people who may be looking in, and to remind me, could you please explain why you use the term 'sole beneficial owner' and to whom you are referring when you use that term. It is obvious to me but I think that given the disclosures made by Susan/Gmom, this site could be drawing all sorts of attention -- just speculation on my part, of course. Amtext has always seemed to be a real Achilles heel for Miragey. How about educating some new readers, please? Thanks, Marianne

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 07:43:01 (EDT) From: Joey Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Re: Amtext, anyone? Message:

How about educating some new readers, please? Nope. The last generation of readers forgot to take notes and they're still asking stupid questions like where does the term 'sole beneficial owner' come from. Not my problem. Joey

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 22:21:38 (EDT) From: Amtext Man Email: None To: Joey Subject: Re: Amtext, anyone? Message:

Hey Joey- Thanks for the info, although I know this person well and don't want to give too much personal info out. I'm not surprised about Amtext's behaviour, that's why I was interested in the competition!

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 08:47:10 (EDT) From: Joey Email: None To: Amtext Man Subject: Re: Amtext, anyone? Message:

Well, I can see that the term 'market saturation' means nothing to you.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 22:37:04 (EDT) From: Amtext man Email: None To: Joey Subject: Re: Amtext, anyone? Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 22:18:31 (EDT) From: Amtext Man Email: None To: Joey Subject: Re: Amtext, anyone? Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 20:40:42 (EDT) From: Ian Email: None To: Amtext Man Subject: you'd do better selling yourelf Message:

forget about it, unless you strike up some rapport with the guy, rapport, not to be confused with politeness; and unless you really have faith in your ex-forum propagation efforts. You might find yourself in someone's office with a reputation preceding you, and everyone is so polite. I guess they just don't care.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 22:25:28 (EDT) From: Amtext Man Email: None To: Ian Subject: Re: you'd do better selling yourelf Message:

Hey, my wife has the gift of gab. She'd do great! Why's everyone so negative- come on, be positive!

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 00:28:25 (EDT) From: Joey Email: None To: Amtext Man Subject: Goodnight my sweet but silly Amtext Man Message:

Why's everyone so negative I dunno. But maybe the fact that your post reflected alot of gullibility had something to do with it. That, and the fact that you seem to ask really silly questions. Such as your request that I post information about Amtext's competition on this forum. Now think about that for a moment. Why are you using a pseudonym here and not really telling us who YOU really are? Do you think the people who I'm currently doing business with would be pleased if I posted their corporate names on this forum? So that they can get a whole lot of phone calls from a bunch of psychodweebs? Hmm...I don't think so. But hey I got a better idea...why don't we all phone the Amtext office tomorrow...the toll free number is 1-800-845-4646!!...and wish them all...well you know...wish them whatever you want. And don't forget...if you end up speaking to Colin Neiburger...tell him you love him. Yes do that. Say, 'Colin you mega fat fuck, I love you man!!' He'll really appreciate it...trust me! Joey

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 22:41:36 (EDT) From: Competition man Email: None To: Joey Subject: Re: Goodnight my sweet but silly Amtext Man Message:

Why are you in such pain? Need to change your career? Now I'm inspired to research ALL the companies doing this. AND talk to B and N AND Amazon. Maybe psychos like you need to not walk the halls of our schools- theres been a lot of problems recently

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Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 00:02:23 (EDT) From: Joey Email: None To: Competition man Subject: Re: Goodnight my sweet but silly Amtext Man Message:

Well by all means. Don't let me get in the way of that which inspires you. And hey, let us know what the good folks ant Barnes and Noble have to say about their indirect association with MJ. That should be a real hoot! And BTW, are you suggesting a cult inspired shmear campaign against me? You should know that that could only work in the rot infested environment of this forum. In the real world, you guys are gonna wilt under the light of truth. In fact you're wilting already. So anytime you're ready Mr.Competition Man...let the competition begin. Joey

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 20:51:10 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Ian Subject: Don't sell your elf whatever you do! Message:

Premie or not, I think it's important that people hold onto their elves. Yes, I know, we've got all sorts of so-called 'buyers' up here too but believe me this is not the time to sell one's elf. Maybe there'll never be a time. I'm not saying there will. I just know that this isn't it. One should know one's elf, not sell him.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 10:29:53 (EDT) From: Snow White Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, hand em over..... Message:

Sleepy, dopey, sneezey, acondroplasia, RajaJi, Miragey, Mahtamji, Bahamaji....send em back, they were my friends first.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 05:06:26 (EDT) From: Anon Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: Don't sell your elf whatever you do! Message:

Despite Jim's predictably negative pontificating about 'not selling one's elf', it remains a tempting fact that elves can still fetch enormous prices in the Far East. Japan's economic slump has not deterred wealthy businessmen from parting with tens of thousands of dollars for a really cute or particularly mischevous one. I have absolutely no regrets from getting shot of my miserable little bugger.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 02:48:05 (EDT) From: kmdarling Email: unlimited@aol.com To: Jim Subject: Re: Don't sell your elf whatever you do! Message:

Glad to see that you are freely expressing your elf and promoting elf-love and elf-realization. Hello again. I ventured back on about a week ago, and I’ve been sucked into this thing like an elfing cult! Et vous? Have you been on since I was last on a bit (3 years ago). Your elf may need elp. Love katie darling formerly masters etc. etc.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 11:10:28 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: kmdarling Subject: Elf! I've fallen and I can't get up! Message:

Hi Katie, I guess you're wondering why I've stuck this out for so long, eh? Frankly, it's all elf-interest. I'm thinking we can chase this guru out of town and I want to keep my place in line for one of the franchises. Always wanted to live in New York, you know. Not all year or anything but hey, that's the beauty of the thing. When you've got a guruship you just work when you want. You don't have to slog away day after day, week after week. That's what I want. By the way, Anon's right about the market -- but only in the short term.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 20:54:19 (EDT) From: Ian Email: None To: Jim Subject: here, pull my finger.(nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 16:09:14 (EDT) From: Jerry Email: None To: All Subject: Cool Website (OT) Message:

Anybody who's curious about how things work should have fun browsing theHOW STUFF WORKS website which pretty much covers just about anything you can think of. I've been browsing it for hours. Please don't tell my boss.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 19:15:39 (EDT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Jerry Subject: The end of a lifetime myth Message:

I always thought WD40 didn't mean anything but was simply a stock code number. Now the truth is known, that it stands for Water Displacement 40th attempt, my life will never be the same again. (So you get it over there too.)

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 20:11:49 (EDT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Re: The end of a lifetime myth Message:

I thought WD40 was a spray to make metal hinges loosen up confused

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 08:15:38 (EDT) From: Dr Octopus Email: None To: All Subject: CHARITY COMMISSION - INvestigation? Message:

Their website is: http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/ Support the campaign to disqualify Elan Vital from having Charity status NOW!

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 09:18:27 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Dr Octopus Subject: What do you suggest ? Message:

Why don't you try to gather testimonies from ex-premies. I for one, have been part of many meetings organized by people paid by EV (like Yoram Weisz) who've been constantly raising money for Mr Rawat. I can tell stories. Give them my name, I'm ready to face an interview and give details.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 12:59:03 (EDT) From: Fred Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Re: www Charity Commission U.K.? Message:

Dear JM, I emailed the charity commion U.K. Sept. 3rd and have received and email back with Investigation information. This is the information they want: the name of the charity and it's registration number a summary of your complaint or concern, and the background to what occurred. an estimate of the value of any property which you believe has been misused. any documentary evidence (or copies) in support of your complaint. details of any attempts you have made to get the charity to put right what you believe to be misconduct. details of any previous correspondence or contact with us about these matters. details of any complaints made to police or other public bodies about these matters. - your full name and address and telephone number and connection with the charity. We cannot normally take action on the basis of anonymous information. It will also be difficult for us to act unless we can use the information provided. If you write to us, please also state: -whether we may put your complaint and any evidence to the charity, and whether we may reveal your name to the charity as the complainant. If you do not wish this to happen, you may nevertheless pass information to us. We will respect confidences so far as we are able, but any person criticised by us as a result of an inquiry has the right to be told the nature of the evidence upon which the criticism has been based, and in some cases this evidence may point towards the complainant. The results of inquiries may also be used in Court proceedings and some, of particular public interest are published. Further information about investigating charities are contained within our publication CC47 which you will find on our web-site on the publications page. I hope this is helpful.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 13:21:23 (EDT) From: Know It All Email: None To: Fred Subject: Re: www Charity Commission U.K.? Message:

It seems to me that any charity which misrepresents its organizational history to the public (such as EV not being related to DLM, that M was never referred to as God, etc., in the event such representations have been made) would be a potential investigative target of the Charity Commission. Such information would probably fall under the 'background' section Fred has mentioned above. Thank you for this post, Fred. Know It All

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 02:53:54 (EDT) From: kmdarling Email: unlimited@aol.com To: Know It All Subject: Re: www Charity Commission U.K.? Message:

Yes, but.... DLM/EV has very clever people handling all that stuff, or at least they used to. When they ask for donations for M’s plane, for example, do they get written out to Neat Villa Inc.? (If you don’t already know, this is the ex-cultspeak for Elan Vital––it’s ananagram). And then can he count his plane as a write-off because he flies it to give Knowlege? Is this why he gives Knowledge himself? Jim or Marianne? Katie

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 11:19:42 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: kmdarling Subject: Re: www Charity Commission U.K.? Message:

Something like that for sure. Know what, Katie? I predict that Maharaji himself is going to be explaining how this all works before too long. Attention EV Site Monitors: Have a nice day!

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 12:24:15 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Right Message:

It seems Maharaji plays a kind of shell game in which people like Yoram Weiss put on different hats at different times. When they are trying to raise money for something for Maharaji himself, like a plane or some new, luxury automobile (he says on his website he is a 'collector' you know and an ex-premie posted some time ago that he was asked to help Maharaji find a vintage 1959 Cadillac, which Maharaji no doubt felt necessary to fulfill his only desire, which is to 'spread this knowledge') they hold those 'closed' meetings and people are asked discretely to send money, probably directly to Maharaji in Malibu or to some other entity. I'm sure they are told this is NOT a tax deductible donation. I'm sure the money does NOT got to Elan Vital. In the past, I recall we asked premies to send money to DLM/EV, and to, in addition, send money directly to Maharaji to a P.O. Box in Malibu. I'm sure it works in some measure the same way today. But it got very blurred when we asked for money for his plane, which required millions. First, the mission lied and said the money was for a world tour. Then we told people the truth because there was a crisis for cash, but I think DLM was doing something illegal by raising cash for a plane personally for Maharaji. Even if you could argue that the plane was to be used for "propogation," the fact that it had gold toilets and all the rest, kind of mitigated against that argument. Then there are the meetings where they ask for the more 'run of the mill' donations to Elan Vital. Elan Vital claims it only uses that money for 'educational' purposes, to set up programs and then 'invite' Maharaji to attend. Then they cover his 'expenses' for those programs. I can just imagine the kind of 'expenses' he has. I wouldn't be surprised if Elan Vital "rents" Maharaji's own plane for Maharaji to fly to the "Elan Vital program." Not to mention other "expenses." As I mentioned, when I asked the Registry of Charitable Trusts in California for the financial records Elan Vital is supposed to file in California, they said they were told by Elan Vital in 1989 that they were inactive, or at least no longer "charitable," and were not filing that information. I made this call after I did the corporate search and discovered that Elan Vital is the successor to Divine Light Mission and is incorporated as a non-profit. I don't know much more about this, but if anyone does, I would appreciate anything anyone could add. We think his plane(s, and I assume his helicopter and who knows what else, are owned by yet another corporation, of which Mary Holle is apparently the president, which in turn is probably owned by Maharaji, his family or very trusted PAMS, who are probably partly 'trusted' because they make lots of money. I think he gives knowledge himself because initiators are TOO EXPENSIVE to be supported and because there are hardly any aspirants in the West anyway. He can handle doing one or two knowledge sessions a year in the West and it saves money. In India, I think he has done a couple of knowledge sessions a year, and crams several thousand people into each session.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 12:38:23 (EDT) From: JW Email: None To: JW Subject: ALSO Message:

If any premie thinks that the above post is cynical and sarcastic, I would just like to say that you are really negative, man, and as you know, we often act as 'mirrors' for each other, so there! As you know, Maharaji is the ultimate 'mirror' so anything negative you see in him is really in you. Isn't that how that goes? :::)))

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