Forum IV: The Ex-Premie Forum
Archive: 5
From: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 To: Wed, Oct 06, 1999 Page: 5 Of: 5


Fly -:- Hey webmaster -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 01:34:56 (EDT)
__ Forum Administrator -:- Thank you Fly. -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 13:58:08 (EDT)
__ Citizen barney©™ (not the webmaster) -:- Not to worry. Just some idiot -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 04:51:04 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: Not to worry. Just some idiot -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 07:40:15 (EDT)

Jethro -:- To Maharaji -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 13:32:16 (EDT)
__ JW -:- Re: To Maharaji -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 16:08:39 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- No.7 -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 14:07:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ JW -:- Yes, Good Suggestions -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 10:25:18 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: To Maharaji -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 21:14:59 (EDT)
__ __ gmom -:- JW-very funny! a must read! (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 20:40:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ Susan/gmom -:- oops......(nt) -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 20:44:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Ho ho ho.(nt) -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 14:09:05 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Thanks for the laugh, Joe -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 18:52:44 (EDT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- JW, are you working with Al Gore yet? -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 16:31:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ MEE -:- No, Working For Pat Puke Canon -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 00:41:38 (EDT)
__ barney -:- Anachronistic Janet -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 15:33:34 (EDT)
__ __ Fred -:- Re: Anachronistic Janet -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:45:43 (EDT)
__ archive -:- Miss it?? Here is how it was. part one. -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 15:02:31 (EDT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Where did you get that? -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 18:42:18 (EDT)

Jim -:- This just in .... -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:38:01 (EDT)
__ Nigel -:- An offer to BG... -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 16:05:03 (EDT)
__ __ JW -:- Good One, Nigel -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 12:51:12 (EDT)
__ __ Fred -:- Re: An offer to BG... -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:40:27 (EDT)

Catweasel -:- Small things -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 10:34:14 (EDT)
__ people who live in glass houses... -:- (you know the rest) -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 06:12:30 (EDT)
__ The mean Sir Dave -:- Re: Small things -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 21:33:11 (EDT)
__ The Real™ barney© -:- Re: Small things - let's not talk about that here! -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 14:33:44 (EDT)
__ __ CD -:- Re: Small things - let's not talk about that here! -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 00:39:09 (EDT)
__ Grace -:- It's Barney the Dinosaur (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 10:37:20 (EDT)
__ __ Mistress Marianne -:- Re: It's Barney the Dinosaur -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 12:02:58 (EDT)

Enough -:- Cringing -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 04:19:13 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Shiver me timbers -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 14:48:23 (EDT)
__ Courtney Love -:- What he really said -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 05:19:35 (EDT)
__ __ Seymour -:- Re: What he really said -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 15:43:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ Courtney Rose Love -:- Never mind (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 17:19:26 (EDT)

STOP PRESS -:- Catweasel renounces Maharaji -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 21:44:26 (EDT)
__ Marianne -:- I wouldn't go to the bank with that -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 22:27:39 (EDT)
__ __ STOP PRESS -:- Re: I wouldn't go to the bank with that -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:14:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: I wouldn't go to the bank with that -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:20:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ STOP PRESS -:- You got it -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:37:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: You got it -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:48:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SP -:- Re: You got it -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 00:00:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: You got it -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 00:01:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Hey SP -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 00:07:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SP -:- This is it, you can close the Forums because........ -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 00:38:22 (EDT)

Susan/Gmom -:- from Susan (long) -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 15:43:19 (EDT)
__ Katie -:- You go, girl! -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 20:00:37 (EDT)
__ Brian -:- Big Wet Smooch -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 11:15:29 (EDT)
__ __ Susan -:- thanks Brian :) (nt) -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 17:24:25 (EDT)
__ Augustina -:- Re: from Susan (long) -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 23:17:49 (EDT)
__ __ Susan -:- Thank you Augustina -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 17:23:10 (EDT)
__ bb -:- jerkdeo -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:54:35 (EDT)
__ __ gmom -:- Re: jerkdeo -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 15:53:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ kmdarling -:- Re: A New Page Feature I might offer -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 16:19:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Liz -:- Re: A New Page Feature I might offer -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:07:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Re: A New Page Feature I might offer -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 05:37:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: A New Page Feature I might offer -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 10:48:11 (EDT)
__ Marianne -:- ROGER-BEST OF***** -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 20:32:37 (EDT)
__ __ Gmom -:- Thanks Marianne (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:33:16 (EDT)
__ __ Roger E. Drek -:- Re: ROGER-BEST OF***** - only if Susan says it's ok (nt) -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 21:18:11 (EDT)
__ Robyn -:- Re: from Susan (long) -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 19:55:13 (EDT)
__ __ Gmom -:- Thanks Robyn (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:31:59 (EDT)
__ JW -:- Great, Susan -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 19:52:10 (EDT)
__ __ Gmom -:- for JW -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:31:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ david m -:- Re: Susan -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 16:42:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Hi David M! -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 18:44:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ david m -:- Re Hi Marianne -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 19:58:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ JW -:- Thanks Gmom -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 13:04:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Liz -:- Re:Parlokanand (A list) -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:38:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ kmdarling -:- Re: Re:Parlokanand (A list) -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 02:41:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Re: Re:Parlokanand (A list) -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 16:11:36 (EDT)
__ Sandy/Shp -:- reply to Susan -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 19:50:56 (EDT)
__ __ Susan Gmom -:- Re: reply to Susan -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:27:10 (EDT)
__ __ Anti Shp -:- Hangin' on the cross with sheep -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:20:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Hangin' on the cross with sheep -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 12:37:35 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Shp's Victim Services -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 22:15:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ Shp -:- Please take it elsewhere, Jim -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 10:02:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Susan Gmom -:- SHP and Jim -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 15:59:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Mediation unnecessary -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 01:27:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Can't you see he's exploiting you, Susan? -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 19:25:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Susan, I am sorry Jim made this thread a killing field -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 01:57:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Someone give this guy a hankie -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 11:39:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- The Sheep keeps his Goat, no one gets it. tonight. -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 21:18:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Figures -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 22:21:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- End of story, this chapter at least -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 08:19:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You truly are ... what? What's the word? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 11:35:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: What's the word? How you say, fed up with your bullshit? Yes? -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 16:03:45 (EDT)
__ LdM -:- Thanks for revealing so much -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 17:20:28 (EDT)
__ __ Susan gmom -:- Thank you Lee -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:24:57 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Oooooooops -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 16:18:25 (EDT)
__ __ Susan Gmom -:- Tears in my eyes Anth -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 16:22:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Pass the Cyber-Kleenex (nt) -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 16:26:13 (EDT)
__ Happy -:- Thank you -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 16:10:05 (EDT)
__ __ gmom -:- thanks happy (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:20:41 (EDT)
__ __ Way -:- To Susan -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 17:08:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ Susan Gmom -:- Re: To Susan -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:19:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ kmdarling -:- Re: To Susan -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 17:25:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ gmom -:- Re: To Susan -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:15:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Liz -:- sexual abuse -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:14:14 (EDT)

Happy -:- Sai Baba -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 14:06:23 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Sai Baba -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 16:24:18 (EDT)

Brian -:- New Journeys Entry -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 10:47:46 (EDT)
__ Grace -:- Re: New Journeys Entry -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 10:32:03 (EDT)
__ __ Liz -:- Doubt-makers -:- Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:53:12 (EDT)
__ __ Enough -:- Re: New Journeys Entry -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 16:34:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ Grace -:- Re: Rejoice -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 20:11:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Enough -:- Re: Rejoice -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 03:45:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Grace -:- Re: Rejoice -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 15:10:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Enough -:- Re: Rejoice -:- Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 15:33:34 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Re: New Journeys Entry -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 16:56:01 (EDT)
__ __ Liz -:- Re: New Journeys Entry -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:14:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ Fly -:- Blodders -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:25:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: Blodders -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 01:08:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Liz -:- Re: Blodders -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 00:44:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: Blodders -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 06:50:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Hey Liz -:- Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 01:10:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Liz -:- Re: Hey Liz -:- Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 01:31:43 (EDT)
__ Gmom -:- Good journey post -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 11:41:13 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Yes, thanks for that -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:10:13 (EDT)
__ AntiGerry -:- Re: New Journeys Entry -:- Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 11:14:42 (EDT)


Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 01:34:56 (EDT)
From: Fly
Email: None
To: webmaster
Subject: Hey webmaster
Message:
You better check out the very last post in the extended list - by 'Patience Time'

Look at source code, he/she is trying to run some Java script - i saw the words 'countdown' in there and remembered the recent post by barney about the Microsoft 'Millenium Countdown' email virus. Could be someone trying it on.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 13:58:08 (EDT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: forumfour@hotmail.com
To: Fly
Subject: Thank you Fly.
Message:
Dear Fly,

Thank you for pointing that out.

If you notice any more strange code in any of the posts, please email me at forumfour@hotmail.com

Forum Administrator

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 04:51:04 (EDT)
From: Citizen barney©™ (not the webmaster)
Email: None
To: Fly
Subject: Not to worry. Just some idiot
Message:
Ha! Nice try there, Patience's Time (aka Uranus Orbital Boulevard.) However, you did not do enough homework to know how this stuff works. Next time try an animated Gif.

Bottom line is that you can almost run a Java Script, but not really.

Finally, it was a harmless little clock that was to have counted down.

Probably, that idiot guy who thinks he's a hacker, but he requires that you run DOS Debug and poke Hex into your Master Boot Record to screw up your machine. Yeah, right! Dude, the least you gotta do is tell me that my machine will run twice as fast if I do that.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 07:40:15 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Citizen barney©™ (not the webmaster)
Subject: Re: Not to worry. Just some idiot
Message:
It has all the hallmarks of Phreak.
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 13:32:16 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: all
Subject: To Maharaji
Message:
I just found this message on a premie/ex-premie website at
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/8154/

Name: Janet Schwartz
Location: Venice Beach on the Pacific--Los Angeles
Email: flawedgenius@webtv.net
Date: Thurs, Sep 16, 1999 at 04:12:17 (EDT)
My message: I miss the old days. I miss the ashrams and the global family. I miss Satsang,Service,MeditAtion and Darshan. I MISS ARTI AT DAWN AND BEDTIME and silent pranam for everything. I miss premie houses and food coops. I miss no meat fish or egg vegetarianism. I miss community centers and community businesses. We have gotten too worldly and too egotistical. we made a wrong turn somewhere. the new elan vital hrts. i dont like it. i dont love i. i cant bring my friends-they are repeled by the conformity and the control.the street kids i know need this knowledge but wouldnt come near a program. thestudents on campus need it but scoff at the sight of us. we are going to be a memory, a flash in the pan, a curiosity that was there and died out, like the Oneida community did--and this Knowledge is too important to be lost that way. Maharaji- if you read this site, i want you to know i will never leave you but i cant fit in todays organization. and my friends dont either. one of my friends has come to see you for 8 years now. they wont give him Knowledge--he looks too rough and street punk. He hears the sound he sees light he gets nectar--but they judge him on his style and refuse him/this is not right. you also need to know that the email on your homepage does not work for us webtv users. it loops in endless ,senseless commands that have already been fulfilled as asked previously. so this is the only way i can email you. i hope you know of this site and read it.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/8154/

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 16:08:39 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Re: To Maharaji
Message:
You know, there might be something in what Janet says that Maharaji might want to pay attention to. I mean, it's really clear that his cult has really gone down the toilet in terms of recruiting new members outside of India, so what has he got to lose? Maybe he should just drop all the pretense and go back to the way it was, but even more so. I mean, at least then there were more followers. Hell, he could even add a few things. In addition to bringing back his Krishna costumes and that flute, he could brush up on his Hindi accent and only allow bald-headed premies, mostly East Indian, to run his organization. Make everyone be vegetarian like he used to, bring back the ashrams and even Community Coordinators -- better yet -- bring back General Secretaries-- also require nightly satsang and the three-legged stool of satsang, service and meditation. Maybe only allow the bald guys to give satsang though, at least for the first few years. I bet even some of his estranged holy family might get involved so that those other pictures could be put back on the altars! What has he got to lose? Rather than the current EV image, in which everyone is supposed to look like a middle-aged, former young Republican, the street punks might once again feel welcome. He could even add a few tried and true cult favorites:

1. He could perform mass weddings at Madison Square Garden for a thousand premies at the same time. Premies could get married to people they had just met for the first time and then Maharaji would name their children names like 'Satganga' and 'Surrender.' Then he could have 'married ashrams' as well as 'celibate ashrams.'

2. Require prostration to both himself and his pictures, which are REQUIRED to be taped to the dashboards of cars, at ALL TIMES. And buttons -- mandatory buttons with his picture on them worn at all times, even in the shower.

3. Box and sell 'food' as 'prashad' from the lotus mouth of the Lord. Also bottle and sell charnamarit and require premies to drink it every day.

4. REQUIRE that premies not only use barragons, but that they carry them around AT ALL TIMES and that only official 'VISIONS' barragons, bought from HIS company, are acceptable.

5. Bring back Maharaji's five commandments, including constantly meditate and leave no room for doubt in your mind, and add a few more, like 'submit to my Mahatmas' and 'David Smith is the reincarnation of Adolph Eichman'. Also, 'always wear Earth Shoes' and 'Send me money' might as well be included.

6. Maharaji should give darshan at least 20 times a year and require at least a $500 donation, in cash, each time. He should preach that if you don't have darshan at least every month, you will die an early, painful death and will go to hell.

8. Find out who is a true devotee by requiring daily leafletting at shopping malls by all premies, and especially aspirants. The leaflets MUST show a picture of Maharaji in full Krishna gear while having his feet kissed.

9. Buy one of the Space Shuttles and have the premies 'refurbish' it as a cost of 10 gazillion dollars done over a period of 25 years.

10. Have Joan Apter tour the country, just like she used to, and have her tell the premies to take out personal loans and give the money to Maharaji, just like she used to.

I think if Maharaji did some of these things, he might have a chance of not dying out and being a 'flash in the pan' as Janet fears.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 14:07:53 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: No.7
Message:
Hi JW,

You missed out number 7.

How about selling hairs, toenail clippings from the lostus feet, and other particles of bodily waste.

Don't forget, after Christ descended up to heaven, all that remained was the left over from his circumcision, which became the centre piece of a church in Italy somewhere. It was kept in jeweled casket.

Anth the Jewel Encrusted Relic.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 10:25:18 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Yes, Good Suggestions
Message:
Good points Anth, I trust Maharaji is listening to your suggestions.

I had the misfortune of watching a video of BM speaking in Long Beach in 1997. In between his repetitive rantings, and watching his daughter sing incestuous love songs to him, they showed shots of a kind of shopping mall in a very large room adjacent to where he was speaking, in which premies bought official Maharaji 'trinkets.' One premie was interviewed while shopping for Maharaji consumer items who said she was buying an official Maharaji cooking apron, which I think had a swan and some inspirational 'Maharaji-sang' printed on it, because it would 'remind' her of Maharaji while she was cooking. Selling excrement can't be too far down the road from that.

This reminds me that Nigel makes an excellent point. Why is it, if what Maharaji peddles is so 'natural' and 'beautiful' and apparently pleasurable, that premies are constantly saying they 'forget' it and have to be reminded? Do you have to be reminded to eat food? Do you have to be reminded that sex is a really nice and pleasurable thing? Do you have to be reminded that you are tired and want to sleep? If 'knowledge' is such a natural and wonderful thing, why does one need constant reminders?

I assume the answer (which M doesn't like to mention too much anymore) is that you have an evil mind, that the world is evil and distracting, and that your whole life is a battle between your mind and your true self. This dualistic, medieval, Hindi philosophy is basically why many of us were miserable as premies much of the time, and the resulting frustration is why premies could be so cruel to each other. I think Maharaji finds it necessary to hold onto this because it creates a place for him, as the one who does the 'reminding.' Otherwise, it really would be nothing more than meditation techniques, and how much money could he make out of that? What a racket.

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 21:14:59 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Re: To Maharaji
Message:
That's a laff. I think he should also demand that a divine residence be built on the Moon. After all, he is the Lord of the Universe and this paltry little planet just isn't big enough for him.

And in case anyone hasn't seen it, here is Maharaji's (unofficial) Homepage. I'll be adding more to it very soon.

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 20:40:00 (EDT)
From: gmom
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: JW-very funny! a must read! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 20:44:24 (EDT)
From: Susan/gmom
Email: None
To: gmom
Subject: oops......(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 14:09:05 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Susan/gmom
Subject: Ho ho ho.(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 18:52:44 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Thanks for the laugh, Joe
Message:
This was my favorite:

4. REQUIRE that premies not only use barragons, but that they carry them around AT ALL TIMES and that only official 'VISIONS' barragons, bought from HIS company, are acceptable.

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 16:31:31 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: JW, are you working with Al Gore yet?
Message:
JW,

You are one heckuva visionary. I'll probably add this to the ***Best***.

Now your idea about refurbishing the Space Shuttle is one hot idea. Unfortunately, working with such exotic aircraft poses real dangers in terms of exposure to very toxic compounds, way more toxic than MEK. When it lands you have to wait until the exhaust fumes blow away or it will kill you.

Do you think that premies can do this work safely? Maybe, equip everyone with hankerchiefs to breathe through?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 00:41:38 (EDT)
From: MEE
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: No, Working For Pat Puke Canon
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 15:33:34 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Anachronistic Janet
Message:
Yikes, that's really something!

Like Janet I almost enjoyed the feeling of community until things got nasty, petty and judgemental for which I was to blame as well. Still, I don't think that I'd want to go back to it.

Yes, Janet, those street punks and college kids sure do need something.

And Maharaji won't give the Big K to Janet's street punk aspirant who is copping an illegal buzz from three of the four techniques? How cruel?

Janet, chuck that TV and get the hell out of Venice. Move on. Your own private Idaho is waiting for you on the banks of Hayden Lake where the sense of community is still strong.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:45:43 (EDT)
From: Fred
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Re: Anachronistic Janet
Message:
Once when in Seattle I went to a church where there were literally hundreds of young punk, street & grunge people pouring in and lying on the floor listening to.....GREGORIAN CHANTING...no less. Perhaps miragi could hire some Gregorian chanters and charge and entry fee.

He definately need to think up some new ways of sucking in a younger crowd.

Fred

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 15:02:31 (EDT)
From: archive
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Miss it?? Here is how it was. part one.
Message:
bill Grenga- My love for guru maharaji...I guess I could
describe it by a few examples. One waas on our retreat last weekend. I was just BEING there, just experienceing
pleasentness. Then, we had an opportunity to listen
guru maharaj ji, or at least a possibility of hearing
to him on the phone. As soon as I became aware of that
possibililty, I just felt such an urge, such a 'wow I want
that to happen' All I want is for that connection to
be there, to be able to give to him, or to be able to
just sing a song for him somehow.
My love for guru maharaj ji right now is something I'm
trying to recognise as trust. in trying to so that,
by trusting him, he can show me the purpose of my life via
the experience of knowledge. via meditation.
Simply by trying to follow his direction as closely
as I can-that's it. See love is like a blanket that you get wrapped around in. In order to experience love with
guru maharj ji, it just seems that doing what he asks
is the way I can wrap myself in that blanket. Because there
is nothing I can give him other than what he asks for,
and what he asks for is for us to follow his direction.
He says 'give me your love and I will give you peace'
the way we give him liove is by doing what he asks.
I cant describe it any better than that.

1978, he was a teacher.

Sally Reeder-
My love for guru maharaj ji is deeper than the ocean,
it's more than the bird feels for the sky and more than a
mother feels for her baby. It's the love that I havefor the
one who dreampt of me and created me and is sustaining me and giving me all the hope I could ever want for a beautiful life.
It's the love you have for someone who is giving you gifts
all the time, gifts which are perfect and are exactly
what you need at that moment.
I love him more than I could ever ever say. I love him more
than I ever loved anyone. And I know that his love
for me is infinitely greater than that. So all I can
hope to do is just open to his love.

There is more and worse includeing some big names from
the crowd at the lotus feet.

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 18:42:18 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: archive
Subject: Where did you get that?
Message:
Archive: where did you get that? Sally Reeder lived in the SF ashram for years. She was a nice person. After I quit, I heard she became an initiator.

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:38:01 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: This just in ....
Message:
My old cell mate, Brian Gaudet, long-settled in his role as a simpleton, dashes off this stunning report from the front:

Amaroo Broadcast

Maharaji attended an event at Amaroo on 18 September for people with Knowledge and those preparing for it. It was broadcast by satellite the following day to North America.

Brian Gaudet from Edmonton, Canada, watched the broadcast

I just finished watching Maharaji on the Amaroo Satellite Broadcast and once again he reminded me to go inside. If I'm feeling lost, confused, lack of magic, then all I have to do is go back inside and there is the magic, the peace, the good feeling - always.

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 16:05:03 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Jim
Subject: An offer to BG...
Message:
I just finished watching Maharaji on the Amaroo Satellite Broadcast and once again he reminded me to go inside. If I'm feeling lost, confused, lack of magic, then all I have to do is go back inside and there is the magic, the peace, the good feeling - always.

For a small commission plus expenses I am willing to phone Brian Gaudet several times a day - as often as necessary, in fact - and remind him to go back inside, right now, brother!. I will let him write the script if he likes, tell him about 'the magic ... the peace ... the good feeling...' - but he doesn't need to because I know it off by heart, already - and that's after years away.. (I wonder why BG forgets it so easily..?)

Premies - Are you feeling lost, confused, lacking that magic..?

Save yourselves a fortune in travel and hotel bills with Nigel's while-u-wait, purpose-of-life reminder service. (This offer is available to only those who have been scientifically proven to have 'that thirst' - or else who are fabulously wealthy.)

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 12:51:12 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Good One, Nigel
Message:
Yeah, I don't get it and never have. Maybe premies could try tying a string around one of their fingers, or setting alarms. Maybe they should try some form of operant conditioning. You know, remember holy name and get an automatic piece of cheese or something? I mean if they can do it for rats, why not for premies? It would be a lot cheaper, too.
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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:40:27 (EDT)
From: Fred
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: An offer to BG...
Message:
Hi Nigel,

I happen to know Brain G.... and that was funny!!!!

Fred

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 10:34:14 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Small things
Message:
If it was remotely funny I might respond in kind'but its just Barney Rubble/Fred Drek/Dave - Ad infinitum pretending he has friends AND personality . Koster Tzu on both counts .A straight left followed by a right.Cream Puff.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 06:12:30 (EDT)
From: people who live in glass houses...
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: (you know the rest)
Message:
should undress in the dark.
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 21:33:11 (EDT)
From: The mean Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Catweasel
Subject: Re: Small things
Message:
Don't worry Mr Catweasel, I'm gonna get tough and pretty ruthless on AG, very soon.
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 14:33:44 (EDT)
From: The Real™ barney©
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Re: Small things - let's not talk about that here!
Message:
Mr. Catweasel,

Ah, so you know my friend Mr. Paranoia, eh?

No, we shouldn't talk about such small things here at Forum IV. Better left to Anything Goes for trash talk. We really do not want to create a distraction in the hall as the symphony is building to such a marvelous crescendo.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 00:39:09 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: The Real™ barney©
Subject: Re: Small things - let's not talk about that here!
Message:
>We really do not want to create a distraction in the hall as the symphony is building to such a marvelous crescendo.

Did somebody drop their sousaphone?

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 10:37:20 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: It's Barney the Dinosaur (nt)
Message:
I think...
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 12:02:58 (EDT)
From: Mistress Marianne
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Re: It's Barney the Dinosaur
Message:
Hello Cat. Grace is right about the Barney thing -- it is Barney the Purple Dinosaur. But you are wrong about the AG culprit. If it was barney, Mistress Marianne would dress up in her best black leather and take her Discipline Whip over to the purple one's home and teach him a lesson or two about making fun of the Illustrious Catweasel. I can tell you from past experience that barney responds well to this method of discipline. Alas, I will not be making that trip to barney's, because SP is definately not barney, I guarantee.

Mistress Marianne

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 04:19:13 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Cringing
Message:
Someone down below used the word cringe in reference to explaining to their children about their cult involvement.

I don't have children but the word cringe approximates my feelings every time I think of kissing Guru Maharaji/Maharaji's foot. I also cringe in my efforts to recruit members to the cult and even more over the one who had escaped after many years of involvement and I convinced to come back to the new and improved version of DLM/EV.

It's worse than getting drunk one night and doing something real stupid, then, waking up the next morning and remembering it.

I look at this as part of cult withdrawal.

And so it goes as Kurt says.

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 14:48:23 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Shiver me timbers
Message:
Aaaagh Enough,

It hurts to remember. I'm hung over after a 25 year binge. Your post sent shivers up me spine.

I feel like one of those spacemen who get zoomed out into space when the spaceship door opens. I'm still flying backwards away from it all. It's been a year and a half, and I don't seem to have decelerated at all.

I suppose I'll have to relax and enjoy the ride.

Anth the Shake Rattle and Rolling.

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 05:19:35 (EDT)
From: Courtney Love
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: What he really said
Message:

No, Kurt didn't say that!

Kurt would say:

I'm so happy
Cause today I found my friends
They're in my head
I'm so ugly
But that's ok, 'cause so are you
We've broke our mirrors
Sunday morning
Is everyday for all I care
And I'm not scared
Light my candles
In a daze 'cause I've found god

Yeah (x bunch of times)

[repeat]
I like it
I'm not gonna crack
[end repeat]


Or Kurt might have said:
I hate myself and I want to die.
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 15:43:09 (EDT)
From: Seymour
Email: None
To: Courtney Love
Subject: Re: What he really said
Message:
Very Nice Courtney,
We all loved Kurt C. but I think Enough was referring to Kurt Vonnegut.So it goes. Still, similar world view at times, although K.V. is still alive and has a recent book out 'Timequake' which I recommend.
Cheers
Seymour
"A purpose of human life, no matter who is controlling it, is to love whoever is around to be loved." - Sirens of Titan
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 17:19:26 (EDT)
From: Courtney Rose Love
Email: None
To: Seymour
Subject: Never mind (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 21:44:26 (EDT)
From: STOP PRESS
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Catweasel renounces Maharaji
Message:
Check out the 'who knows'...'Rob is back' thread (part 2) over on Anything.

Never thought I'd see the day......

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 22:27:39 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: STOP PRESS
Subject: I wouldn't go to the bank with that
Message:
Mr. Stop Press: That Catweasel is a wily fellow. He can write nasty little ditties when he gets inspired. Given the whole tenor of that thread, I'm not sure if you can rely on a word in it. But I do like the part where 'Catweasel' tells Maharaji to kiss his ass!

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:14:18 (EDT)
From: STOP PRESS
Email: wordsage:)
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: I wouldn't go to the bank with that
Message:
Oh no, Marianne, it's true I swear!

And what's more, URL is ready to jump too!

Honest ;)

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:20:00 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: STOP PRESS
Subject: Re: I wouldn't go to the bank with that
Message:
I want to hear URL tell the Big guy to kiss his ass too!

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:37:35 (EDT)
From: STOP PRESS
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: You got it
Message:
...over on Anything Goes.

xxx

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:48:07 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: STOP PRESS
Subject: Re: You got it
Message:
I've had a really difficult day today. The AG post gave me a cackle I really needed. Thanks STOP PRESS!

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 00:00:36 (EDT)
From: SP
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: You got it
Message:
Happy to bring a ray of sunshine into your day:)

So glad that all our efforts here have not been in vain.

Welcome to your new family, Catweasel & URL.

BTW, you do know who you're chattin' with , don't you ;)

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 00:01:55 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: SP
Subject: Re: You got it
Message:
I am certain that I do.
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 00:07:49 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Stop Press
Subject: Hey SP
Message:
How about getting Rotwat hisself to talk to us'ns over on AG?
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 00:38:22 (EDT)
From: SP
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: This is it, you can close the Forums because........
Message:
....over on Anything He has made THAT confession we've all been waiting for.
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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 15:43:19 (EDT)
From: Susan/Gmom
Email: None
To: All
Subject: from Susan (long)
Message:
I am going to start posting as Susan. Which is my real name. When I was a premie I was Susan Green and I lived in Miami. I grew up in Miami but I moved many years ago.

I have always felt a little uncomfortable talking about my experience with Jagdeo and my attempts to report it without using my name. What I thought was that anyone who read my Journey would know it was me speaking. Recently however someone I
knew posted and did not know it was me from reading it. Also, Anth probably by oversight named the people I told about Jagdeo on the site in his letter to Glen. A long time ago Mary named them as well. So I think since the names are really out I would like to talk about that. I feel it is more ethical to do so as Susan.

Randy Prouty was the first person I told. Randy was the community coordinator in Miami in 1975 the year I received Knowledge. He was especially nice to me when I would come to the Ashram to do service, which was just about everyday, and what I recall most was that he helped me with my Algebra. I also had a terrible crush on him. I was 13 and here
was this 23 year old man who thought I was an important devotee in my own way. He was like a big brother/mentor and in no way was the crush reciprocated.

A couple years later Randy had left Miami to become a residence type security premie and an initiator. In 1977,after the incident with Jagdeo I thought of Randy as a way to tell the Guru about Jagdeo. Randy came to town not long afterward. I told him about Jagdeo in the parking lot beside the satsang hall after satsang. I was careful to explain it was not just me, but my friend also, he knew her as well, and that worse had happened to her and probably several other girls in 1975 when these girls were between 8 and 12 . The satsang hall was across the street from Coral Gables High school in a storefront. Randy took it seriously as I explained in my journey. I do recall later that he did tell me hehad told Rawat but I do not recall too much more than that.

Years later, when I wanted to join the Ashram at 16, Randy came to my house to convince my mom that it was okay. I think he also went to the guru himself to vouch for my being ashram material at 16. Big mistake. I guess for him, but not for me. I am glad. I couldn't take the ashram. I missed my mom, I hated the guy who was the house father who kept giving me RULES, I missed freedom. I started seeing all the Ashram premies as hypocrites. I do not look back on this retrospectively as that my motives for seeing this were selfless. It was sort of reverse psychology, give her what she wants and she won't want it anymore.
Instead of rebelling by BEING a premie I rebelled against premies. One day I called my mom and said come get me. She did.

That was probably the first time Randy was sorry he vouched for me. My journey was likely the second.

Leaving the Ashram was hard. My life was premies and I was lost. Scared, terrified and lost. I have said before I started destroying pictures of the guru to see if I would burst into flames. I did not. Good sign. I wrote to people who were ex cult supporters. I did not hear back. I was looking for someone who could help me out of this new terrifying phase of my life. Life without premies and the guru. I did not find it fast enough. I KNOW if there had been a site like this my life would have been much better.

I got involved with a premie. Explaining this relationship is embarrassing. But it was not exactly a relationship to be proud of. I was flailing and lost and grabbing for dear life to what was FAMILIAR. The premie world. Even if I joined it as an ex at its outskirts. This premie was my first sexual relationship of any kind, fist kiss and all, and he soon had to get a divorce to marry me, I was pregnant. I was 17. I still have a lot of shame about this.

So a couple years and another child later, I am watching Phil or Oprah as I did every afternoon. And it is about child sexual abuse and I think long and hard about Jagdeo. This was the second time I 'told'. I thought maybe Randy lied? I still to this day
do not get why Rawat did not do something. I may have been an ex but I still thought that the guru would get rid of Jagdeo if only to protect himself. A friend had told me that Judy Osborne was Marolyn's midwife. This same friend gave me these treasures, Daya's old clothes, made of silk and linen, for my baby daughter. I certainly had not yet cut my guru umbilical cord. So I call or write Judy Osborne. She calls me back. I had never met her. I tell her the story thinking as a midwife she will get the seriousness of this. I still think she did. If she is being forced to lie about this I bet it is torturing her. She called me back a
week or so later and said the guru 'already knew' and 'he was glad this was not a new incident' . This is so important....I did not tell her prior to this that I had ever reported it before. I then told her about Randy. She THEN said, oh, of course Randy
would have told 'Maraji' he is a good guy. She had no way of knowing that the guru was ever told except that she told the
guru and he said he already knew. I did not even mention KNOWING Randy before I got confirmation she had told the guru.

I really am upset about this because of the scope of it all. What happened to me was so minor compared to the other victims.
But what I did, if what I said had been heeded, might have prevented a lot of pain. I think the fact that now so many premies
know because of my Journey and more importantly this site is rather amazing. Knowing about the other victim in England, how
much worse it was for her and how much younger she was, sort of galvanizes me. And common sense tells me there are victims
everywhere Jagdeo went. I can let what happened to me go. I cannot let what happened to her go. Especially when it was
likely preventable.

I want to say that it really bothers me to make Randy and Judy villains in this. If people who read this judge them for only telling the guru I want them to think about what they might have done in the 70's heyday. I really think they did exactly what most devoted premies would have done, told Rawat and trusted he would take care of it. However, if they are really lying about it now I feel betrayed.

I am going to post a white pages thing so maybe old time Miami people can write. It is funny but the only premies I remember
well were the first ones I met. Before Miami became premie mecca. The ones who fed me in their homes, who helped me with
my troubles, who were really good people. All the bigwigs I met later have faded into a type. The little people, who were so
kind to me, are the heroes of the end of my childhood. Which was one strange childhood.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 20:00:37 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: Susan/Gmom
Subject: You go, girl!
Message:
Dear Susan -
I haven't been reading the forum lately, but Brian told me about your post. Once again, I want to celebrate your bravery and personal integrity. Almost all of us have painful or embarrassing things in our past, and I know that it's very hard to reveal these incidents. I really admire you for doing so, and for putting yourself on the line in an effort to help other people. You're an inspiration to all of us.

I really hope you hear from some of the 'little people' in Miami who were kind to you. I had similar experiences with some of the premies I knew in D.C., and I'll always be grateful to them - they helped me so much with their love and acceptance. I remember them well, too.

Here's to you, Susan...
Lots of love always,
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 11:15:29 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Susan/Gmom
Subject: Big Wet Smooch
Message:
I thought that might be you when I uploaded your White Pages entry, but I never knew your last name before :)
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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 17:24:25 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: thanks Brian :) (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 23:17:49 (EDT)
From: Augustina
Email: not given
To: Susan/Gmom
Subject: Re: from Susan (long)
Message:
Dear Susan,

It is with great sadness I write you. I admire your courage to speak up repeatedly about the sexual abuse you and other children suffered at the hands of Jagdeo. I received knowledge from two Mahatmas, one being Jagdeo. I hardly remember him, but someone reminded me that he was at my initiation into Knowledge. I have my own history of sexual abuse, from my father. Please do not minimize your own experiences, not matter how 'minor' you may deem them, by comparing them to others' experiences. Sexual abuse is sexual abuse, the danage is done, the innocence taken away. It has taken me years to work through my own problems it has repeatedly caused in my life.

I've been a premie for over 25 years. Only recently have I finally dared to check out the anti-Maharaji sites and read the journals, yours in particular. Your story has helped me abruptly leave the 'inner circle' of premies doing service here in our little town. After reading several more things on the different sites, it is definitely my decision to leave behind the Maharaji dream. Knowledge, however, is priceless to me, I could never abandon that. The Lord of the Universe stuff I used to look at as harmless, I have believed in alot of it for a long, long time. The lies and omissions are appalling, even if only a small part of them are real. Just a few of them are enough to turn me away.

I hope it helps you to know that by telling your history, you have helped me and I'm sure many others to stop and ask what is really .....important here. An individual child or the .....Guru! FUCK HIM!

Well, enough for now. Please take care.

Augustina
Augustina

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 17:23:10 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Augustina
Subject: Thank you Augustina
Message:
I am very touched by the love and sincerity in your letter. Thank you for posting it I am feeling really good about posting about this. I forwarded your letter to another woman who was hurt by Jagdeo and I know seeing the incredible kindness and understanding I have recieved from so many people will be helpful to her too.
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:54:35 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Susan/Gmom
Subject: jerkdeo
Message:
Hi Susan,
I am sure that both Randy and Judy got the message
through. Judy told marolyn no doubt and remember that
during the early years most of the indians were
misbehaving and so reporting on the indian mahatmas
was widely accepted. One of the indians who was in
hartford about 74 next went to soulth america and we
heard that the soulth americans crowned him with some
sort of crown. He had been doing the eastern -I am one,
I am realized, I have realized this knowledge routine
here and I guess the spanish were quicker to respond.
When it got back to dlm and the lord of the universe,
that guy ended up in india quick.

I know some of the indian guys would slap people in
the face in knowlege sessions if they were questioning
while getting shown how to hold thier fingers.
The one honest indian told m during a mahatma get together
that he didnt see any light. What was he doing wrong?
m made a joke then transferred him to work at the
rainbow grocery in denver. He worked thier for a while
then freaked out and said at satsang 'I came to america
to be a holy man' and left and had a premie girlfriend
and set himself up giving out techniques in denver.
Immigration ushered him out of the country.

I dont think Randy or Judy would deny what happened.
jerkdeo also made wild claims about his experiences
with m while meditating or sleeping to us in Miami during
81,82.
I'll guess that rawat used that incident like he would
use ANY incident to wildly berate jerkdeo and play
ultimate lord. Having cowed jerkdeo into mush and gotten
mileage out of the incidents to play his power trip
supreme, I would guess he let the sniveling jerkdeo
begging at his feet off the hook.
I cant see rawat letting ANY incident go by where he
could berate someone.
No consolation to us, but in rawats twisted world of
complete domination over others, he was judge and
jury and absolutely corrupt in his empire. No
chance in my view that he would just dismiss a report
like this and not send it through his courtroom where
he loved to be judge of the universe.
The narcissist meglomania power tripper profile that
m rawat fits doesnt leave a lot of room for someone to
skip past a punishing from the lord.

rawat said plain as day, and I have the divine times,
that the perfect master, when he yells, the effects are,
first,
you cant move
second,
you lose bodily control and go into shock
third,
you lose conciousness
and if he continues to yell at you,
you die.

Someone with this kind of self delusion, and had a tendency
to always be annoyed and unapproving to all staff,
wouldn't just do nothing to jerkdeo.
jerkdeo got some amount of shit for this, but from the
wrong justice department.
The court of the lord-if you remember him talking
about that.

Just my guess.
Small possible consolation I know.

Thanks and a hat tip to Brain Mc Dermott for that quote
from M

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 15:53:13 (EDT)
From: gmom
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Re: jerkdeo
Message:
Dear bb,

I have wondered if maybe Rawat chewed Jagdeo out and then figured that is enough he will stop now. I doubt he was any more of an expert on how impossible it is to cure a pedophile than the average person. Your post is fascinating on how it all worked. I did not know a lot of those things. Your post should be a ' best of '

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 16:19:52 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol.com
To: Website honchos
Subject: Re: A New Page Feature I might offer
Message:
Dear Creators, Preservers and Destroyers of this great website,
I can’t figure out if there’s any way to communicate with you other than here.
I’m Katie Darling. I have a Journeys story and occasionally pop into forums. Recently I posted something about recovering from cult abuses which was put in the Best of the Forum (this made my day!). I also mentioned stuff in my Journeys article about how cults mirror dysfunctional families, a subject I have explored in depth as a therapist. When i started my career most of my clients were premies and instructors. Over the years I became a sort of expert at compassionate cult recovery and have worked with people from almost every guru imaginable. Some of the problems that ex-premies face are quite subtle, in the same way that people who were emotionally incested by a parent often have a harder time getting their lives back together than people who received more obvious abuse.
Anyway, in response to my two, fairly paltry posts on these subjects, I received a stack of mail from people saying it opened their eyes and helped them and so on. In fact, I get a response to my Journeys story about once a week, although till last week I hadn’t been on this website for months (but now I’m sucked into the ex-cult again!). Yesterday I did a little exploration, following up some of the cult awareness links, and so on, and I didn't find much of the kind of information that has really helped me and many others––namely what you might call “psychological” information (although I am not a straight psychologist––I fell into this out of dire necessity and became a self-educated expert). So I got to thinking about creating some kind of section for this website to really clearly lay out the psychological syndromes that can both lead a person into a cult (you unconsciously reiterate old family patterns while thinking that you are escaping them), or can be created by a cult. A lot of the information about psychopathology in families, the role of denial, enablers, scapegoats and so on fits wonderfully and can free up a lot of energy for people by making some kind of organized sense of their experience. Otherwise the whole thing can just stew away inside and be a source of shame (“why don’t I feel better, I’m out of the cult now?” which is the same as the old “Why don’t I feel better, I have the Knowledge of Knowledge from the Lord of lords?” bullshit).
So I’m sort of offering to research this and perhaps put something together. I’m thinking I could research and quote some of the incredible Yoga Journal articles about cults, and have a sort of questionnaire-type process that a person could put themselves through to figure out what toxic beliefs they might still be stuck in, what experiences they still haven’t made sense of, and so on.
Whaddaya think? I’m very busy, so it may take a while, but I’m willing. I still believe in service (to humanity).
Love katie
If you’re responding, e-mail me at unlimited@aol.com with the name KATIE in the subject line, as I get junk mail.
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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:07:58 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: kmdarling
Subject: Re: A New Page Feature I might offer
Message:
Dear Katie,

Good idea, darling.

Love,

Liz

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 05:37:06 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: kmdarling
Subject: Re: A New Page Feature I might offer
Message:
Katie,

Sounds like an interesting idea. I'd be very interested in reading about the similarities of cult recovery amongst followers of the various cults. I was in M's Cult for nearly twenty-five years and just recently got out after giving it one final honest last chance.

As far as where to locate your work I'd suggest the www.ex-premie.org since it would be more appropriate than my crude site. You can email the Ex-Premie.Org Webmaster.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 10:48:11 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Re: A New Page Feature I might offer
Message:
your participation demonstrates that being close to the Lord of the Universe and his family was no picnic and exposes the hypocrisy of the whole cult. If the purpose of Knowledge was to evolve, how is that M and those around him treat people so abusively and deceitfully?

Looking forward to hearing more from you.

Take care, Marianne

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 20:32:37 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Susan/Gmom
Subject: ROGER-BEST OF*****
Message:
Susan: Thank you for being our moral center and for protecting us all through this act of courage.

And Glen Whittaker, or any other responsible at DLM/EV, you should call the London and Miami police and tell them where Jagdeo lives now that you have read this. We shouldn't have to be speculating on his whereabouts on the Forum. Produce Jagdeo for interviews by these law enforcement agencies and let THEM decide whether Jagdeo should be charged with any crime. And here's some free legal advice: flight in the face of a criminal accusation constitutes consciousness of guilt. That would be flight by Jagdeo and anyone who aids and abets his flight.

Roger, I think maybe this whole thread belongs on Best Of the Forum. What do you think?

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:33:16 (EDT)
From: Gmom
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Thanks Marianne (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 21:18:11 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: ROGER-BEST OF***** - only if Susan says it's ok (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 19:55:13 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Susan/Gmom
Subject: Re: from Susan (long)
Message:
Dear Susan,
Thank you so much for being brave enough to write this post. I think you are an amazing woman. Your strength and conviction to helping to stop this man from hurting more children brings tears to my eyes. I can empathize with your feelings of shame about your premie marraige but I want to assure you that you were a child and a terrified child at that. It sounds to me like you have become a good and kind woman once you had a chance to grow up.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:31:59 (EDT)
From: Gmom
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Thanks Robyn (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 19:52:10 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Susan/Gmom
Subject: Great, Susan
Message:
Great to see you come out of the closet Susan and that was a great post.

Regarding Jagdeo, I think Chr mentioned, and I saw it too, that Jagdeo seemed to have personal dispensations that none of the other initiators had. It always seemed like Maharaji was deferential to him, like Maharaji dare not cross him or Jagdeo might expose something awful that he knew. This was just a feeling I had. Plus, Jagdeo used to give really heavy satsang at programs and, of course, expected to be waited on when he was visiting the communities in the provences.

I distinctly remember Jagdeo coming to Chicago and staying in the ashram where I lived for about a month in late 1978 or early 1979 and he certainly wasn't 'watched' and he wasn't traveling with anyone. I was the ashram housefather and I never heard any warnings whatsoever about him.

I was Community Coordinator in Miami from October 1979 until October 1980 and Jagdeo was in Miami a number of times during that period, both for big programs at the Miami Beach Convention Center, and otherwise. I never noticed he traveled with anyone, and no one ever told me to watch him, to keep him away from little girls in the community, or anything of the kind.

Both of these time periods, unfortunately, are after Susan reported his sexual molestations of little girls. I never saw any evidence that Maharaji or DLM took any actions whatsoever to warn people about Jagdeo or to watch him. Clearly, he should NOT have been touring the communities. He should have been, at a minimum, prevented from having any access to children. Plus, don't you think it was just a little hypocritical for him to be pontificating at programs when he was, at the same time, abusing little girls?

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:31:08 (EDT)
From: Gmom
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: for JW
Message:
Call me sappy but JW you have been like a rock of sanity on this site at all times. It does feel amazingly good to 'come out'. I am suprised that it matters as much as it does,

Also thank you for clarifying that Jagdeo was not 'watched'.

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 16:42:28 (EDT)
From: david m
Email: none
To: Gmom
Subject: Re: Susan
Message:
Hey Susan...I have been following your story for some time now ..I really feel for you.Now that it is out in the open I hope you find some Peace you deserve it..Peace..love...david
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 18:44:14 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: david m
Subject: Hi David M!
Message:
Hello there david m! Is is autumn in Michigan yet? How are you doing? Nice to see you here again.

Take care, Marianne

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 19:58:16 (EDT)
From: david m
Email: none
To: Marianne
Subject: Re Hi Marianne
Message:
Hey Marianne...Yes it was 39 this morning and 59 for a high today iv'e been away for a whileI keep rreading and Susan's post really got to me...so Iv'e always been here just not posting for a while..All you guys keep up the good work...peace...david
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 13:04:43 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Gmom
Subject: Thanks Gmom
Message:
Thanks, Susan, that's nice of you to say.

Obviously, I don't know if 'nothing' was done to protect kids from Jagdeo. I mean something might have been done that I didn't know about. But clearly, if anything was done it wasn't MUCH and clearly, like everything else scandalous in Maharaji's world, it was hushed up, ignored, and shoved under the carpet. The same was true when Parlokanand was found molesting little boys and some of the other mahatmas were taking advantage of female premies. Not to mention Fakiranad and his hammer.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:38:40 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Re:Parlokanand (A list)
Message:
Dear J.W.,

Someone needs to make a list of all these alleged sexual abuse cases. This is a new one to me. When did the alleged abuse take place to 'young boys'?

I would also like to get in touch with Patty - the 'sister' that was 'brutally raped' by a 'mahatma'.

If Patty is too upset to come forward maybe her premie sister might. Jim can you do anything about this?

Liz

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 02:41:57 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol.com
To: Liz
Subject: Re: Re:Parlokanand (A list)
Message:
OMIGOD!

Parlokanand molesting little boys. I liked him! I thought he liked me! I thought we had something special...

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 16:11:36 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: kmdarling
Subject: Re: Re:Parlokanand (A list)
Message:
It was pretty much common knowledge among the premies that Parlokanand had a real problem with little boys. The premies I knew were all aware that he had been a child molester. But he was discovered and then he was defrocked and sent to San Antonio where I was living in the ashram and he wasn't allowed to give satsang and they made him wash cars for his service. After awhile, he was sent back to India, I think, and I don't know whatever happened to him.

I'm pretty sure I received knowledge from Parlokanand.

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 19:50:56 (EDT)
From: Sandy/Shp
Email: mcpass1@earthlink.net
To: Susan/Gmom
Subject: reply to Susan
Message:
Dear Susan,

I just read your letter. You sound younger as Susan, as if a load has just begun to be lifted from you.
Everything you said and the way you said it touched me very deeply. As a parent of two sons, I still have that protectiveness that many say is over-protective, and I say 'stuff it' to them. One cannot be too protective in this world. I would never leave my kids with anyone outside of family and a very few very close and trusted friends. Now they are older and the 15 year old is bigger than me, but I still keep an eagle eye on the 11 year old, even though he thinks he's so worldly. But in the mindset of the premie world back in the 1970's, I probably would have allowed Jagdeo or one of the other (sick) instructors to be alone with my kids. I'd be feeling all honored while they'd be getting messed with. That freaks me out to even think about, the betrayal of trust at such a level as representing God.

Ever since I heard about your experience, I have felt abused too. Everyone with a conscience who has heard about this probably feels the same way to one degree or another. It has changed my life in ways I'd rather not go into right here and now...it has made a great impact in my life getting to know you and about your childhood even through cyberspace.

We still have an old bedsheet that Randy gave us one day when we went to a Knowledge review or something and were without a sheet. Yeah, he seemed to be cool and had a good vibe. I remember his story was not the hippie truth seeker or anything like that....I think he was pretty straight, frat boy and all that, before Knowledge. Judy I never met.

My heart is with you. I call upon all the healing forces in the universe to come to the aid of this little one and her friends, to uplift and bless, to heal and nurture, to make whole and perfect once again,
through the grace and love of Christ and all that is good, pure and holy. Let it be done.

Sandy (Shp)

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:27:10 (EDT)
From: Susan Gmom
Email: None
To: Sandy/Shp
Subject: Re: reply to Susan
Message:
Thank you Sandy.
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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:20:12 (EDT)
From: Anti Shp
Email: None
To: Sandy/Shp
Subject: Hangin' on the cross with sheep
Message:
Sandy, man, you are fuckin' nuts.
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 12:37:35 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Anti Shp
Subject: Re: Hangin' on the cross with sheep
Message:
Dear Anti,
Why do you antagonize Sandy for this post, it was heartfelt and sincere! I just don't get it.
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 22:15:26 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sandy/Shp
Subject: Shp's Victim Services
Message:
My heart is with you. I call upon all the healing forces in the universe to come to the aid of this little one and her friends, to uplift and bless, to heal and nurture, to make whole and perfect once again, through the grace and love of Christ and all that is good, pure and holy. Let it be done.

That is so touching! I don't know what to say. Shp, you are really a highly evolved being, d'you know that? No, seriously, you're something else. You know what you are? You're a creep. Here's why.....

You glom on to Susan's experience like it's a cheap thrill:

Ever since I heard about your experience, I have felt abused too.

yet you continue to worship the asshole who set this jerk in motion like a bad disease and did nothing to take him out of commission even after the reports came in. You played as if you had some independence at first, writing Maharaji about this but, when he stonewalled you, you accomodated him with deference and even explained to us that it's not for you to determine how much latitude a great Master like Maharaji deserves.

Listen, idiot, that's the very attitude that allowed Jagdeo to do what he did in the first place!

It's that attitude that allowed Trebinand to rape Patty and drive her nuts, that allowed Tejeshwarand to set up an actual harem in the Vancouver ashram and impregnate some poor sucker of a 'sister' when he was supposedly opening up everyone's third eye in the other room. And on and on and on.....

You have no right to say anything, Shp. After all, maybe this was the Master's lila, right? Who are you to say otherwise?

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 10:02:52 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Please take it elsewhere, Jim
Message:
Shp sed:
My heart is with you. I call upon all the healing forces in the universe to come to the aid of
this little one and her friends, to uplift and bless, to heal and nurture, to make whole and
perfect once again, through the grace and love of Christ and all that is good, pure and holy.
Let it be done.

Jim sed: That is so touching! I don't know what to say. Shp, you are really a highly evolved being, d'you
know that? No, seriously, you're something else. You know what you are? You're a creep.
Here's why.....

You glom on to Susan's experience like it's a cheap thrill:

Shp sez: You don't know what you say.

Ever since I heard about your experience, I have felt abused too.

Jim sed: yet you continue to worship the asshole who set this jerk in motion like a bad disease and
did nothing to take him out of commission even after the reports came in. You played as if
you had some independence at first, writing Maharaji about this but, when he stonewalled
you, you accomodated him with deference and even explained to us that it's not for you to
determine how much latitude a great Master like Maharaji deserves.

Shp sez: You don't have the foggiest idea who or what I am worshipping here and now.
This isn't about lattitude. It's about who knew what and when.

Jim sed: Listen, idiot, that's the very attitude that allowed Jagdeo to do what he did in the first
place!

It's that attitude that allowed Trebinand to rape Patty and drive her nuts, that allowed
Tejeshwarand to set up an actual harem in the Vancouver ashram and impregnate some poor
sucker of a 'sister' when he was supposedly opening up everyone's third eye in the other
room. And on and on and on.....

Shp sez: Never heard of those guys. Any other surprises? I'm pretty much against abuse across the board, so you can save all the other examples, although I would like to know for my own understanding how much of it existed that you know of.

Jim sed: You have no right to say anything, Shp. After all, maybe this was the Master's lila, right?
Who are you to say otherwise?

Shp sez: I know the difference between an abomintion and a lila, sir.
So now that you have brought your own brand of poison to this thread, are you done?

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 15:59:07 (EDT)
From: Susan Gmom
Email: None
To: Shp and Jim
Subject: SHP and Jim
Message:
Sandy, I really do think you care about what happened. I think you can understand though, Jim's incredulousness, at your posting a prayer and using Christ'sname after having so recently ( still?) being a premie. But I will take your goodwill and caring. I do appreciate that.

Jim has been solidly behind me since my first post here. I have told him many times I think he is too hard on people BUT I still think the fact he doesn't let premies get away with illogical premie speak is VERY valuable to all who post here.

So I am not mediating this one.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 01:27:00 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Susan Gmom
Subject: Mediation unnecessary
Message:
Dear Susan,

I should not have posted that here. I should have e-mailed it to you. It was personal. I asked for it.
Shoulda seen it coming. Silly me, I feel...sheepish!

Whether I still follow Maharaji or not, I have never given up on believing that Christ laid down the groundwork for how people can get along, that his words were not 'churchy' as they are made to sound today, but rather a driver's manual for human beings on planet earth that still holds true today. Just think, if everyone just followed a few very simple directions he gave about how to treat each other, there would be peace on earth. I don't find fault with who said it. I am upset with those of my own species for being not getting it after 2000 years.

I sincerely strive to live my life and conduct my relationships in the sprit of Christ's teachings, not of any specific Christian denomination. Some would say that makes me a Christian. I say it just makes me a want to live how a human being is meant to live, in harmony with others. I had an experience in an elevator of a dorm when I was a freshman in college (1967-8). I had come back from a beer party and was a little lit as I came back to my dorm. There was a group in the lobby listening to some guy who had a Bible in his hand. I just stood and looked over towards him for a minute and he looked back and I felt something. When I got into the elevator, I was alone in this little shiny steel box on a string going up. And I said, OK, Jesus, if you are real, show me. Then the elevator felt like the sun was inside it, that's how bright it got. I did not go back to that guy with the Bible or join any groups or religions becasue they all had their trips. But the impression of Chirst and the simple message of love made a deep and lasting impression on me that lives to this day. He made it very simple and clear how people can get along, but very few people want to do it his way. As messed up as the scriptures are from translations and interpretations, the way still shines through. But you can also get that same experience from watching the sun come up and getting it all bestowed that way too, if you are in the right place inside. That is my experience, not premiespeak.

So there is no contradiction and no need for any mediation. This is not premiespeak. This is me.

With love from your brother Sandy

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 19:25:05 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Susan Gmom
Subject: Can't you see he's exploiting you, Susan?
Message:
Susan,

Not that it really matters that much but this guy's I-feel-the-pain! crusade is a little much. The fact is, he's still a premie and has recently explained that it's not for him to limit the 'Master' or to decide how much 'latitude' he should give him in terms of if and how he (Maharaji) ever chooses to deal with this Jagdeo scandal. You walk into a room with Shp and Maharaji, it won't be Shp asking Maharaji any hard questions. Believe me.

But that's not what irks me as much as this garbage:

My heart is with you. I call upon all the healing forces in the universe to come to the aid of this little one and her friends, to uplift and bless, to heal and nurture, to make whole and perfect once again, through the grace and love of Christ and all that is good, pure and holy. Let it be done.

Calling you a 'little one'? Pretending he's Obi Wan Kenobi? This is offensive crap, Susan although, understandably, you're in no position to say as much. May Christ strike Shp speechless for a change. Now that would be a miracle. Let it be done!

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 01:57:37 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Susan, I am sorry Jim made this thread a killing field
Message:
Jim,

Guess Christ answered your prayer and said
NO, JIM. I AM NOT GOING TO STRIKE SHP SPEECHLESS.
See, He does answer all prayers. Just sometimes he says NO.
I am a little one too. So are you. So are we all.
It is you who assumed anything else.
It is you who made me Obi Wan, I never thought it for a second.
Trying to make a liar out of me
You make a fool of yourself.
You twisted my words in your post
About Maharaji and lattitude and my feelings about it.
You flat out lied. You did it intentionally.
It was not an accident. You have malice in your heart.
I know because you are trying to inflict it on me and I know what it feels like.
It's not rocket science, ya know.
Anybody who gives a shit knows who I am and who you are by now
And will make their own conclusions.

You hide your sick self behind this group of people, do some lawyerly arguing for the cause,
then extract your fee for services rendered by giving yourself permission to run roughshod on whomsover you choose, to swing and clobber us with whatever baggage of your own you haven't unpacked yet. And you interpret silence as consent. Perhaps many exers are freaked out by you and are not accustomed to standing up to your o-so-potent bullshit. You think you are superior to, smarter and better than everyone here, both premie and non-premie. That's what I pick up from YOU. Maybe it's overflow from your profession. I really don't give a shit why you are fucked up, I just hope you realize what you are doing someday and straighten up. I don't hate you, I hate the way you be.

Shp

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 11:39:30 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Someone give this guy a hankie
Message:
Trying to make a liar out of me
You make a fool of yourself.
You twisted my words in your post
About Maharaji and lattitude and my feelings about it.
You flat out lied. You did it intentionally.
It was not an accident. You have malice in your heart.

Strong words, Shp. Funny how you keep saying this but never actually tell me what you actually said, what you actually meant and how I misconstrued (oh, sorry, lied) about your statement. How about doing that now and getting it over with?

To be clear, I recall you saying that seeing as Maharaji's the Master and all, it wasn't for you to decide how much latitude to give him.

Well?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 21:18:15 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The Sheep keeps his Goat, no one gets it. tonight.
Message:
Hey Jim,

Guess what? This is not a court of law and you are not my prosecutor or persecutor.
I am not going to do your homeswork for you. If you make an accusation about me
or quote me, then make sure yourself you are accurate. Don't expect me to play your
game. Look it up yourself. I don't work for you. And guess what else? I don't hate you.
I hate the way you be.

Let's put it into a question. If I am not here to give you a hard time or convince you to
'come back' (which I am not), can you imagine why do I come here? To tango with you?
Hell no. To hear more about issues that I feel I need to know about? Duh.

So you don't care for the way I manifest and I don't care for the way you manifest.
I can live with that. See ya.
Shp

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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 22:21:31 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Figures
Message:
Shp,

I would go back to your 'latitude' quote if I could find it. Problem is, I can't. Can you?

Shp, let's face it, bro', you're manifesting like a bit of a weenie. You call me a liar but you won't back it up. You say I twisted your words but you won't back it up. This is a joke, right? Tell me it's a joke, Shp. Tell me, you're a joke.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 08:19:37 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: End of story, this chapter at least
Message:
Jim,

Let's back up a bit. I called you a liar because of something you said about me, dumbass.
That's where the buck stops. The ball is in your court.

The only time I feel like a joke is when I find I have allowed myself, as I do this beautiful morning, once again engaged in one of your ridiculous cross examinations. Sometimes you are right on the button pertaining to details and correcting the minutia of both premies and ex-premies alike, but your formula doesn't fit or work in this case.

Like I said, folks know me and folks know you. Most people know how to read between the lines and not nit-pick snytax and every little punctuation. It's called 'catching one's drift'. Try it sometime.
It will open a whole new horizon for you to vandalize, or perhaps appreciate.

Shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 11:35:50 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: You truly are ... what? What's the word?
Message:
Let's back up a bit. I called you a liar because of something you said about me, dumbass.
That's where the buck stops. The ball is in your court.

Holy cow, are you ever stupid!?? The ball's in your court, idiot. It's your claim. Show me how I was lying, for God's sake.

Of course you can't. I wasn't. Ha ha ha...

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 16:03:45 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: What's the word? How you say, fed up with your bullshit? Yes?
Message:
For every time you ever lied about me
Understanding nothing of my real intent
Caring not for mine or others' feelings
Kindness, to you is energy ill-spent

Yet I take the time to write this little poem
Out of my already busy day
Until you get my poem's inner meaning

Jim, you'll have some nasty thing to say
If you ever want to have a diaolog
My door is always open, just say 'Hey'!

!

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 17:20:28 (EDT)
From: LdM
Email: None
To: Susan/Gmom
Subject: Thanks for revealing so much
Message:
Dear Susan

I think you have been very brave in coming out with your real name, after all this time. It's obviously been a very hard decision for you.

In my opinion, what happened to you was not minor as you say - it was unspeakably WRONG. Charlie & I have two kids - Ben is 13 and Rachel is 11. I am all too aware of their vulnerability - they look to us, their parents, for guidance and love and after that they have a structure of teachers and adults who are there to teach and guide them. It worries me sometimes that they could be taken advantage of so easily by one of these adults, but I have to trust that these adults ARE trustworthy. If my children were to be abused in any way, I would be horrified (to say the least).

In the case of knowledge and maharaji, we all entered another structure, where we were surrounded by mahatmas/initiators who were there to guide us and we had maharaji, the Perfect Master, to look to for all the spiritual guidance we could ever want. And don't forget all that talk about the Perfect Love. I personally thought I had it made, I had found THE answer. When Jagdeo took advantage of the devotee/teacher relationship, I cannot imagine your struggle to muster up the courage to tell anyone about it. When nothing was done about it, that's when it became a stone around your heart.

I hear the sorrow in your words. It is terrible that it's been this way for you all this time. I keep having to remind myself - whilst I am unravelling the years of being a premie - that when I feel pain, anger, sadness and fear - I am not wholly to blame.

May you get healed in the best way for you.

Lee

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:24:57 (EDT)
From: Susan gmom
Email: None
To: LdM
Subject: Thank you Lee
Message:
Your posts are great by the way. Using my name actually feels really good. In some way I feel like it will help me put this behind me. With my teens too, when I would see watching my son and daughter turn 13 ....was that I was really very young when I became a premie. Thank you so much.
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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 16:18:25 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Susan/Gmom
Subject: Oooooooops
Message:
Hi Susan,

Aaaaagh. I never meant to mention Randy and Judy, except in my letter to Glen. I've just this minute read your email to me, panicked, rushed over to the forum, read my letter, decided to ask the Administrator to take the names out, and before I could say, 'oh shit', there was your post.

So the cat's out the bag. (Sorry Randy and Judy, honest it wasn't deliberate. As I was putting four letters together in one post I simply copied them from 'Word', forgetting I'd taken the names out before... )

Don't suppose I'll go to prison for it, but I didn't mean it.

Anyway, Susan. You and our friend down under have truly been an inspiration to me in all this Jagdeo business. I know we've been through lots of stuff together, and I've felt nothing but great strength in adversity from both of you.

I've also got another perspective on child abuse.

It's a terrible thing for a grown man to sexually violate the world of a young girl. It's a truly despicable type of abuse and assault, and an awful thing to happen to a child.

But what then, if that child, knowing something wrong has been done to her, tells people she loves and trusts. And maybe they tell people they trust...but nothing happens.

The world goes on as before. Nobody seems to care about this awful thing.

What does that tell this child about the world she lives in?

It tells her it's a shithole.

But, inside you and our friend, something never stopped complaining about these violations. The years passed, but neither of you quit. That's guts and courage and your spirits shining through and it's magnificent.

It's great that we picked this garbage up and threw it back at them Susan.

And it's great that you feel strong enough to tell your story with your own name too.

All power to you feisty sisters,

(I'm going to have to read your post again. I've only just calmed down.)

Anth the Oooops a Daisy.

PS. Maybe if they read your post, Randy and Judy's memories will be jogged.

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 16:22:54 (EDT)
From: Susan Gmom
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Tears in my eyes Anth
Message:
Anth, you get it. Thank you so much.
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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 16:26:13 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Susan Gmom
Subject: Pass the Cyber-Kleenex (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 16:10:05 (EDT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Susan/Gmom
Subject: Thank you
Message:
You are very brave, Susan. Thank you so much for bringing this out into the light.
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:20:41 (EDT)
From: gmom
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: thanks happy (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 17:08:25 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: To Susan
Message:
Jagdeo came to our ashram in 1980. One night after satsang he gathered all the ashram premies in his room for more satsang. He told us darshan stories so outlandish that nobody knew what to make of it. He said that Maharaji routinely visited him astrally and in fact had just recently awakened him one night to show him his new blue suit and then disappeared. I find it incredible that he was allowed to continue with his service, visiting communities around the world, after his criminal abuse had been discovered. So many people must have known. Susan, did you ever have to endure seeing him give satsang again after you had told?
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:19:38 (EDT)
From: Susan Gmom
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re: To Susan
Message:
No. But I did see him in a darshan line. It was chilling. He was one of the people that stand in the tunnel on the way in. It really upset me. I recall a darshan line in which I kind of freaked out. My evil mind telling me the guru looked bored and had no idea who I was. I came out crying. Everyone thought I was having one of those 'bliss' cries. I was actually feeling like I was evil to think such things about the guru. I wonder if it was the same line. Seeing Jagdeo as a greeter certainly should have given me that message.
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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 17:25:06 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimitedf@aol.com
To: Way
Subject: Re: To Susan
Message:
Hey Susan. Welcome “Out!” In your private e-mail to me you detailed some very intense details about the abuse (of the other girls mostly) which really brought it home to me bigtime. I invite you to post it all here. More power to you! Much love Katie
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 11:15:20 (EDT)
From: gmom
Email: None
To: kmdarling
Subject: Re: To Susan
Message:
Katie thank you for your support. I feel like it is up to the others to speak for themselves on this board. One is very close to posting actually. I am sure we will hear from her soon.
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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:14:14 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: gmom
Subject: sexual abuse
Message:
Dear gmom,

I hope she does. I would also like to get in contact with Pattie who according to Jim went 'crazy' when she was violently raped by a 'mahatma' She lives in western Canada somewhere I think.

Best regards,

Liz

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 14:06:23 (EDT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Sai Baba
Message:
Liz,
you made a post on 'unholy numbers' in the thread started by Sion, in which you asked if anybody had information on Sai Baba. I replied to it, but it went 'down south' already. If you want to read it, press the 'View All'.
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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 16:24:18 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Liz and Happy
Subject: Sai Baba
Message:
Hi Liz,

I met Sai Baba a couple of times. I was a devotee for a year before I discover a real cult.

Anth the Sucker for Punishment

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 10:47:46 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: All
Subject: New Journeys Entry
Message:
I uploaded a new entry from Christopher Giles this morning. I think he nailed down the reasons that I got involved pretty accurately.

Thanks for the submission, Christopher.

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 10:32:03 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Re: New Journeys Entry
Message:
Good journey.

From someone who came much after all of that, it is crystal clear to me now how crazy all of you view those who are still around. Please note that very few of those who entered in the last ten years or so would know what had gone on without people like those who send in their journeys and the webmasters who keep this site going.

It (in my eyes) appears so innocuous now, just like so much of the other popular New Age information/trips. It appears quite 'normal', almost mainstream to many, I'm sure by design of the upper level people now or the PR staff.
And all of those old enough to have gone thru all of what is described in many journeys (and are still premies) keep their mouthes shut about it. I never heard anyone ever complain about ashrams, service, etc.

The scary thing is that the US has potential for becoming ripe again for cults and gurus. I heard a premie say (at one of Long Beach programs) that M is thrilled about the 'second wave' of premies, that is, children of premies now receiving Knowledge, and that he's looked forward to this. Indian culture is in the media and 'in' with the stars, Madonna and other stars with Mendhi and the jewels on the forhead, Richard Gere making no secret of his strong Buddhist lifestyle/beliefs, Demi Moore and others into Deepak Chopra, Oprah with New Agey guests, ritzy spas offering meditation and vegetarian menus, etc. As Maharaji goes much more mainstream and the mainstream steps in the direction of Eastern thought/meditation, I can see a whole new group of teenagers getting fascinated with it and worse yet, using it as a tool to rebel.

But, like Mark mentioned in a post a few days ago, I also see that those who have stayed are aware of this website and a dark cloud seems to hang over some of the communities, like what he saw in Long Beach. There isn't the same 'vibe' there used to be, I almost sense a sadness in some, as if they know but are just hanging on because this has been their life for so long. I sense that this site really is making a difference with the existing premies, zapping into gear their (as M coined it) 'doubt-makers'. So, on the other hand, I also see it being likely that the flocks will continue shrinking considerably as more people face facts.

Thanks again for being there to let the truth out.

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Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999 at 01:53:12 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Doubt-makers
Message:
Dear Grace,

Recently i heard a Christian priest say that doubt re Christianity was a healthy thing. It seems to me that doubt can only NOT be tolerated in a frightened supressive cult.

What is there to lose. In the case of a frightened, suppressive cult. A lot.

Liz

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 16:34:10 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Re: New Journeys Entry
Message:
I wonder what His next move will be then if the cult numbers continue to go down. In the late 80's HE pulled a slick one w/his Rejoice programs. What he did if you weren't around was slightly change the techniques+ agya out the use of baragons. We just couldn't miss out on that now could we!!

I did mean Kurt V.

Bye, Grace( not His grace)

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 20:11:58 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Re: Rejoice
Message:
I was there, but what was slick about changing the techniques (music only, I believe)?
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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 03:45:41 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Re: Rejoice
Message:
There were subtle changes in all 4--at least in our focus on them--plus we were told no more constant snacking on holy name/3rd technique--plus we were told to do it 1 hour minimum per day instead of the previous hour in AM, hour in PM. Things were made easier by Guru Maharaji/Maharaji and he told us not to share what went on at this program w/those who did not attend. In retrospect, IMO, I think he was creating curiosity and need for our wayward brothers and sisters to come home. If they asked what went on at program and we couldn't tell them, well.....? I sure would have wanted to know what I missed. Remember most of those that have left are just walkaways as opposed to those of us here who are trying to deprogram/detoxify. Many of these walkaways just think that knowledge failed for them because of something they were lacking and are the most susceptible to trying again.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 15:10:00 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: Re: Rejoice
Message:
I must have been too high on Maharaji, I forgot about some of that. You know, you get so blissed out the details just fade into the woodwork?!! Who knows what suggestions he put into my brain when I was in that extra-suggestable state? ( I don't remember having sex with any Indian or other guys afterward, so I guess it's ok)
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Date: Thurs, Sep 23, 1999 at 15:33:34 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Re: Rejoice
Message:
Yeah, it's funny but since we started discussing this I keep remembering more about that time.

The cult research I've done on the internet seems to refer to us as Suggestibles and Susceptibles. I'm not sure which one is easier to stomach.

I got married in 1976 as part of the wave of premies who decided it was OK to get married since the Guru did. Lasted less than one year--about typical of that batch of premie marriages. I stayed w/the cult. My then ex-wife walked away although to this day she still claims to love the DUDE. How's that for programming!!

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 16:56:01 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Re: New Journeys Entry
Message:
Hi Christopher,

I enjoyed your 'journey'. I remember Hansa Graphics and the Palace of Peace very well.

It's such a relief to find out it was all a dream.

Anth (likes Durham and surreal last paragraphs too).

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:14:18 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Chris
Subject: Re: New Journeys Entry
Message:
Hi Chris,

I was around at Hansa Graphics? Remember David Thorpe buying the old printing press with money left to him by his Auntie?

I was also around the Edinburgh Ashram for a very long time the same time as you. If you would like email me. Is your name really Chris? Being a bit slow after 29 years of 'practicing knowledge' I'm a bit slow and I didn't understand the last paragraph of your Journey, although I enjoyed your story a lot. NMaybe you could explain the last paragraph to me sometime. I also remember George Blodwell from London too. I remember when he worked at Brown's, South Molton Street (very trendy, baby!) Note I said 'around' the ashram. I was never sucker enough to join except when I went to the D.L.M. farm Ashram in Inverness as housemother I finally cracked. I hated it.

Love,

Liz

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:25:26 (EDT)
From: Fly
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Blodders
Message:
Anyone have that picture of Blodwell when he posed for Playgirl?

Now that would be a picture for the Express!

Whatever happened to his ersatz girlfriend, Beth Burrell?

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 01:08:18 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Fly
Subject: Re: Blodders
Message:
The last I heard of Beth Burrell is tyhat she went to Australia with Dick Cooper and they both ran(run?) a chip shop(this isn't a joke).
Dick Cooper was m's henchman to close up the ashrams here.I know this because he personally told me.

Jethro

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 00:44:46 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Fly
Subject: Re: Blodders
Message:
Didn't see the Playboy photo, worse luck....I always thought he was good looking in a pretty sort of way. Beth sounds familiar but i don't know what happened to her.

Liz

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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 06:50:29 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Re: Blodders
Message:
I remember she spoke with a slight lisp. Funny what you remember after all these years.
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Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999 at 01:10:19 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Hey Liz
Message:
Hey Liz, I lived in the same ashram as george(circa 1977).It was in Kalisia Ave in Streatham soutyh London. Did I know you(my name was Eddie Fisher then).

Jethro

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Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 01:31:43 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Re: Hey Liz
Message:
Dear Jethro,

I don't think so. I was living in Scotland by then.

Liz

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 11:41:13 (EDT)
From: Gmom
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Good journey post
Message:
I agree with you Christopher on the Stepping Stones post. We were so enmeshed in the cult for all those years that somehow the fact Rawat was claiming to be the Messiah does not have the proper shock value. But as soon as I try to explain that I believed he was God to a person who never was a premie that shock is apparent. In fact, I think my policy of telling as few people as possible has always been a good one. We look like fools.

A picture speaks a thousand words. Those pics of the guru dressed up in his God suits ( the Khrishna, the mala ) the pic of the Horse's ass on JMs site, the pranam pic....they do it. Speaking of the horse's ass pic, I just read a book about a Moonie and she had a pic with people looking at Moon with the same dazed blissed out expression. Revolting. You know, there are more horse's asses than there are horses.

And yes, selling yourself as the Messiah is well, evil.

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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 23:10:13 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gmom
Subject: Yes, thanks for that
Message:
Thanks from me too, Christopher. With you all the way.
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Date: Tues, Sep 21, 1999 at 11:14:42 (EDT)
From: AntiGerry
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Re: New Journeys Entry
Message:
I uploaded a new entry from Christopher Giles this morning. I think he nailed down the reasons that I got involved pretty accurately.

My reasons also. I'll say it plain and simple: I wanted to follow the AntiChrist.

" As he is not the Saviour, he can only be the AntiChrist." Quartus Q Giles (TM) (patent pending)

That's how I've got it figgered out, too.

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