Forum IV: The Ex-Premie Forum
Archive: 7
From: Fri, Oct 08, 1999 To: Wed, Oct 20, 1999 Page: 1 Of: 5


JW -:- The Millennium -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:13:02 (EDT)
__ The Akashic Record -:- Re: The Millennium -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 20:18:24 (EDT)
__ Robyn -:- Re: The Millennium -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:43:09 (EDT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Oh Robyn! -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:52:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Oh Robyn! -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 21:36:15 (EDT)
__ __ JW -:- Hi Robyn -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:37:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Hi Robyn -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:49:08 (EDT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Millennium Factoids & Rotwat -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:19:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ JW -:- Re: Millennium Factoids & Rotwat -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:31:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Hey JW! Way Cool! -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 20:12:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Hi Stranger -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 10:21:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Hi Stranger -:- Wed, Oct 20, 1999 at 00:31:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Re: Hi Stranger -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 17:07:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Earthquake predictions -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 19:21:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Earthquake predictions -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:52:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Hi Ben! -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 21:15:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Hi Ben! -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 00:41:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Re: Earthquake predictions -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 19:37:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: Earthquake predictions -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 21:20:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Hey JW! Way Cool! -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 21:40:34 (EDT)

Jim -:- Here, Dog, let's talk -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:13:08 (EDT)
__ Mel Bourne -:- Re: Here, Dog, let's talk -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 07:47:49 (EDT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Sheer bloody embarrassent, for one... -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 01:32:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, exactly -:- Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 18:39:18 (EDT)

grrlzone -:- the secret and sacred techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 07:18:27 (EDT)
__ JW -:- Re: the secret and sacred techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 15:33:26 (EDT)
__ __ grrlzone -:- Re: the secret and sacred techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:39:49 (EDT)
__ Susan -:- Re: the secret and sacred techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:20:46 (EDT)
__ __ grrlzone -:- Re: the secret and sacred techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:43:06 (EDT)
__ Way -:- Re: the secret and sacred techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:14:32 (EDT)
__ __ grrlzone -:- Re: the secret and sacred techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:50:45 (EDT)
__ __ Grace -:- Experiences of Knowledge -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:15:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ grrlzone -:- Re: Experiences of Knowledge -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:59:19 (EDT)
__ __ Lee -:- Re: the secret and sacred techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 14:15:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ Way -:- To Lee -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:57:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Re: To Lee -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 08:56:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Response to Jerry -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 11:20:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Re: Response to Way -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:31:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Again to Jerry -:- Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 11:10:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Lee -:- Re: To Way -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 03:49:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Thanks so much, Lee (nt) -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 11:46:16 (EDT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Re: the secret and sacred techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:52:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ grrlzone -:- Re: the secret and sacred techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:10:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Another welcome to grrlzone -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 20:20:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ grrlzone -:- Grrlz rule! -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 20:37:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Re: Grrlz rule!!!! -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:03:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ joop -:- Re: the secret and sacred techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 15:06:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ joop -:- Re: the secret and sacred techniques -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 15:02:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ Larkin -:- Nursery Crimes -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 12:13:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ grrlzone - -:- Emily Dickinson -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:15:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Larkin -:- Re: Emily Dickinson -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:21:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ grrlzone -:- Re: Emily Dickinson -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:04:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: Larkin the Poet -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:25:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ grrlzone -:- Re: Larkin the Poet -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:49:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ observer -:- Re: Larkin the Poet -:- Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 09:20:29 (EDT)

Nigel -:- Four questions for premies -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 05:14:42 (EDT)
__ Pauline Premie -:- You Are In Your Mind -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 15:43:47 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- And what do they say? Hey, how about you, Deputy Dawg? -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 10:10:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- Deputy Dog -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:42:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Don't quibble with your confession, consider it instead -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:00:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Diversion (nt) -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 10:49:34 (EDT)
__ Orlando -:- Nigel, you are such a bore (nt) -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 07:20:41 (EDT)
__ __ Jethro -:- Typical premie non-answer(nt) -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 10:38:41 (EDT)
__ __ Nigel -:- It isn't my intention to entertain you, Orlando -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 07:26:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- and by the way... -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 07:46:05 (EDT)
__ Billy Graham -:- One Answer....Jesus your slow! -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 07:19:39 (EDT)
__ __ Ms. Grammar -:- It Should Be....Jesus you're slow! -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 09:43:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ Mistress Grammar -:- Re: It Should Be....Jesus you're slow! -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:05:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Ms. Grammar -:- Re: It Should Be....Jesus you're slow! -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 16:58:46 (EDT)
__ TD -:- Re: Four questions for premies -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 06:50:06 (EDT)
__ __ JW -:- Re: Four questions for premies -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 13:22:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ Mickey Moss -:- Old Kentucky Fried Guru had a farm; eieio -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 16:01:36 (EDT)
__ __ Susan -:- LOL LOL (nt) -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:57:41 (EDT)

Sir Dave -:- Fairytales -:- Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 19:52:55 (EDT)
__ Grace -:- Re: Fairytales -:- Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 21:08:11 (EDT)
__ __ Mickey Moss -:- Re: Fairytales -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 16:35:31 (EDT)
__ __ girlzone -:- The Lord of the Universe Complex -:- Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 22:12:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ LdM -:- Re: mid life Lord of Universe crisis -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 06:36:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Grace -:- So How Is He Supposed to Bow Out? -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 09:53:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Enough -:- Re: So How Is He Supposed to Bow Out? -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 16:05:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ grrlzone -:- All those uniniated aliens ... -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 20:14:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: The Lord of the Universe Complex -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 02:34:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ grrlzone -:- Re: The Lord of the Universe Complex -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 05:03:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Lard of the universe indeed -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 12:20:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- hilarious !!!! (nt) -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:23:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- God as peanut butter -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:55:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Grace -:- Re: God as peanut butter -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:02:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ Runamok -:- Re: The Lord of the Universe Complex -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 00:22:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ grrlzone -:- Re: The Lord of the Universe Complex -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 05:07:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Is Shp really girlzone?? -:- Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 22:36:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Not copping to Jim's pidgeonholes. -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 08:03:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ girlzone -:- Re: Is Shp really girlzone?? -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 00:18:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ My guess -:- No Jim, girlzone is our night MARE!! -:- Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 23:27:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Know It All -:- Not nightMare -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 00:02:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Caritas -:- Unequivically not Mary M ;-) nt -:- Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 09:30:08 (EDT)


Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:13:02 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The Millennium
Message:
I found the following at Common Courage Press, and I thought it was pretty interesting, especially item 8. People are obviously finding and reading the ex-premie website.

As we head off optimistically into the 21st century, consider a few indicators that it's not going to be a totally new era:

1. Small is lucrative: The 1998 budget approved by Congress included expenditures such as the following: $700,000 for building a pedestrian overpass in a town with a population of 306; $15,000,000 toward renovating a gravel strip in a town with a population of 451.

2. Death takes its poll: Some 50,000 Oklahomans voted for a woman in the Democratic primary running for a Senate position--even though she had died six weeks before the election.

3. Bully Pulpit: Even though the FBI's 1997 data shows that the rate of violent crime has dropped since the 1970s, two-thirds of Americans actually think that crime rates are increasing. The Kentucky Legislature voted 76-9 to let ministers carry concealed handguns during sermons.

4. Equal opportunity department: In a recent Forbes magazine list of the 400 richest Americans, only one--Oprah Winfrey--is black.

5. Flight of fancy: The General Accounting Office of the federal government has reported that the several-billion dollar B-2 stealth bomber, allegedly impervious to enemy radar detection, will lose its stealth coating if it comes into contact with moisture, such as ordinary rain.

6. Fat or cancer: the tough choice. Despite the conclusion of the head of the Harvard School of Public Health that the artificial fat substitute Olestra will cause thousands of cases of cancer, and more than 5,000 letters complaining of bad experiences with Olestra, the Food and Drug Administration reviewed and approved Olestra twice.

7. Executing Justice: In 1997, the six governments which executed the greatest number of people per capita were China, Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, Florida and Texas.

8. Even the Master Isn't Perfect: That chubby master, Maharaji, formerly Guru Maharaj Ji aka The Lord of the Universe and the Perfect Master of the early 70s and the Millennium event at the Astrodome, is alive and well in his mansion in Malibu, still trying to convince people into supporting his lavish lifestyle. But he hasn't been able to establish peace in the world prior to the millennium as he promised. You can check it out at www.ex-premie.org.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 20:18:24 (EDT)
From: The Akashic Record
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Re: The Millennium
Message:
It was the age of Kalyug when darkness tightened its grip on the land and the truth was hidden behind a great veil. Before the dawn was the darkest time, as it always is, and the powers of illusion ran rampant with no apparent force to keep them in check.

The events of the hour fueled by machinery forged in ignorance unfolded into a deepening spiral from where it seemed impossible to surface. And a widening despair rippled through the land even though the events of the day had been portended by the seers. The mute screech of deception finally reached its crescendo, and there was nothing left but blackness. All hope was lost.

Out of the heartless darkness like a note from from a lost melody, a ray of light flickered across the horizon. A silent world began to utter it's first words of joy, for the dawn had finally come....

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:43:09 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Re: The Millennium
Message:
Dear Joe,
How the heck are you? I am amazed by this, all this political stuff and then the BM, don't you find that odd. I'll tell you, if it wasn't you that posted this I'd thik it was a joke! Still it is neat to see that ex-premie.org was noticed.
I hope to see you in about a month. I can't believe it is that close! I'll email you soon as long as you still have the same email address.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:52:24 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Oh Robyn!
Message:
Robyn! How are you? So we will see you soon, right? Don't worry -- local seismologists have predicted that we won't have an 8.0 quake or higher for over 100 years! Just a 7.0 or higher, perhaps soon, say the next 30 years or so. I'm sure it will hold off til after Thanksgiving.
Can't wait to see you....

Love, Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 21:36:15 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Oh Robyn!
Message:
Dear Marianne,
I am good, should be doing any one of 100 other things right now though! I am starting to smell those apples! Not good! Hahaha, I just thought but the apple smell covers up the backed up plumbing that the plumber said he forgot to come by and work on today! Sheesh, feeling good in spite of it all though, what the hell. :)
I'll email you soon too about logistics. I am getting nervous and excited. I haven't been on a plane since the last time I went to a festival to see the BM in Miami! Yikes, I'm getting old! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:37:44 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Hi Robyn
Message:
Hi Robyn. When is it you are going to be here? I want to make my calendar so I don't forget!

We are having SUMMER WEATHER here for the past few weeks after a really cold summer. It is heaven and I am having a wonderful THAT experience, it feels like THAT love.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:49:08 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Re: Hi Robyn
Message:
Dear Joe,
Well, I guess I won't give you a hard time for talking about warm weather while I am freezing, only because I will hopefully be benifiting from it soon! :) Don't think Jessica hasn't been rubbing it in about the nice weather!!!
I leave on Tuesday, 11/23 and come back on 11/30. See you and Marianne then!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:19:43 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Millennium Factoids & Rotwat
Message:
Joe: Great find! Is Common Courage Press in SF? Yes, it is wonderful to read a plug for the site(s) out there in the real world!

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:31:02 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Millennium Factoids & Rotwat
Message:
I think Common Courage Press is in Woods Hole Massachusetts and publishes Z Magazine. I'm on their mailing list because I subscribe to the magazine.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 20:12:31 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: JW
Subject: Hey JW! Way Cool!
Message:
Hi JW -
Brian and I are amazed that 'the real world' has actually noticed ex-premie.org (Brian says 'COOL!'.) Is there a link for this, or did you get it out of the magazine?

Hope you're doing well. Glad to hear you're experiencing summer weather in SF, cause it's freezing here in Cleveland!

Love,
Katie

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 10:21:59 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Hi Stranger
Message:
Hi Katie (and Brian):

Z Magazine/Common Courage Press sends out these 'Z Notes' from time to time to subscribers. Actually, there were a lot more 'millennium' items than the 8 I reproduced -- I just stopped after the one mentioning Maharaji. I have the sneaking suspicion that whoever puts it together is either an ex-premie or has ex-premie friends.

I think there is a lot more lurking at the ex-premie site than you might think.

Glad you are doing well. The warm weather here is typical for the Fall, but on these warm, fogless days, people start talking about 'earthquake weather' even though they keep telling us there is no such thing.

Joe

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Date: Wed, Oct 20, 1999 at 00:31:59 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Re: Hi Stranger
Message:
Joe, Joe, Joe,
Shhhhhhhhhhhhh! No talk of earthquakes until 12/1! I am warding off all earthquakes for my time in CA. If it wasn't for that unfortunate little point, I may have moved out there long ago.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 17:07:02 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: JW
Subject: Re: Hi Stranger
Message:
Hey again JW -

Re 'Z Notes' - either there is an ex-premie in the woodpile, or they searched 'millenium' on the Net, is my guess. Anyway (I'm not sure what form you got the Z Notes in), if you can scan it or e-mail it, it might be a great thing to put on the site (with proper attribution of course).

Re: earthquakes. I believe that some people can sense 'earthquake weather' especially after experiencing 'tornado weather' and having a very destructive tornado follow. (Pay attention to your pets!) But I also think that the most reliable earthquake indicator for California is other earthquakes around the Pacific Rim - that means plates are shifting (amateur geologist's opinion, of course.)

A lot going on here, so I'll write to you soon.
Love,
Katie

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 19:21:22 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Earthquake predictions
Message:
So Kaite, is it your amateur geologist's opinion that the EQ activity in Turkey, Greece & elsehwere is a harbinger of things to come? The SF papers are filled with EQ information this week as it is the 10 year anniversary of the Loma Prieta quake (the one during the World Series). The EQ experts out here are saying there is a 70% chance of a 6.0 or greater EQ on the fault over in the east bay in the next 30 years. We're built into bed rock. Don't know about Joe though.

Love, Marianne

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:52:09 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Earthquake predictions
Message:
Wasn't the Chron great - color coded chances on the front page - just what I want with coffee at 5am. Now all they need to do is print a similar diagram that shows the chances of winning the lottery on a day the earthquake hits. :=)
I'm just grumpy bah humbug - :=( see ya
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 21:15:33 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Hi Ben!
Message:
Hey there Ben! I remember that you and Enough were both at the Stick when it hit. I actually hate it when all these predictions come out. I freak at every little rattle and roll ever since Loma Prieta. The USGS is supposed to have a map that shows what will happen to every street in the Bay Area if a Big One hits. I keep telling myself to get it, but I just can't bring myself to do it. Like I said, and like my husband the 3rd generation San Franciscan says, 'Honey, we're built into bedrock.' Okayyyyyyy....

Ben, I always like to read your posts. I want to discuss something with you offline. Can you send me your current email address? Thanks.

Your pal in EQ country, Marianne

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 00:41:51 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Hi Ben!
Message:
I went over to my blind acount and sent you the current addresses. I didn't even look in the message to see you had yours here online, spent 5 minutes looking for your address. see ya soon
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 19:37:32 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Earthquake predictions
Message:
Actually, Marianne, I would be more worried about the earthquake in Taiwan, since I think the whole Pacific Ring reacts to earthquakes in other locations on the Ring (these is an EXTREMELY uneducated opinion, btw, as I don't know all the plate locations and so forth). Also, can't plate shifting affect houses that are built on bedrock (since it is the bedrock that shifts)? Just wondering.
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 21:20:31 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Earthquake predictions
Message:
My spouse, he is a MAN after all, is convinced that plate tectonics will have absolultely no affect on our house on the side of a hill. How dare you question his authority, Katie? Maybe I should have a word with Brian....

Love & kisses, Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 21:40:34 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Hey JW! Way Cool!
Message:
Hi Katie,
Seeing you write 'Way Cool' reminded me, I said 'jive' in water aerobics today as in 2 things not jiving and the teacher was shocked and said how 70's of me, glad I'm not alone. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:13:08 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Here, Dog, let's talk
Message:
DD below said:

Here we go again. I feel like I'm on Perry Mason here. I didn't say 'to avoid criticism and censure' I said to avoid COMPLICATING MY LIFE. There is a difference, Mr. word twister!

I keep forgetting how slippery premies are. I'd said:

So what's the big 'complication' you're afraid of, premie ji? It ain't from us, is it? Be honest. You don't want to risk the 'complications' you might experience right there in that there cult of yours. That's the truth, isn't it?

You replied saying only 'it's a fair cop'. When I asked you what you meant you said 'I'm a wimp'.

Okay, DD, tell us please what 'complications' you're afraid of beside 'criticism and censure' from the cult. This I want to hear.

I also didn't say ALL anonmyous premies are wimps said maybe I'M a wimp. I was speaking just for myself.

'Maybe'? Liar.

I choose to post anonymously as do most people on the net. It's allowed here for God's sake. The box even says 'Your Name/Alias.'

We know your choice; the question was 'why?' And most exes here post under their own name.

If I couldn't post here anonymously I wouldn't post at all. That's it, end of story.

Maybe, but this jsut skirts the issue, doesn't it? Again, the question's 'why?'

There are also plently of ex-es who post anonymously, are they wimps?

Maybe. Maybe some are, some aren't. Depends. But, like I said before, exes have all sorts of reasons for choosing anonymity that premies simply don't have.

And by the way it's Dog not Dawg. How would you like it if I called you Jamie?

My sincerest apologies.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 07:47:49 (EDT)
From: Mel Bourne
Email: mbvictoria@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Here, Dog, let's talk
Message:
Hi Jim

'scuse me, DD

.... exes have all sorts of reasons for choosing anonymity that premies simply don't have.

Like what?

Mel

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 01:32:06 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Sheer bloody embarrassent, for one...
Message:
...about having to come clean that you used to kiss the feet the feet of an alcoholic multi-millionairre who you thought was the Lord of the Universe because he told you he was. At least that was my reason for anonymity before before I decided to identify myself. I suspect many premies are anonymous for the same reason.

I have conversed via email and phone with some exes whose reasons are more do with marital issues and access to kids, etc. Why are you anonymous Mr Mel? - are you also uncomfortable about being in a cult?

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Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 18:39:18 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Yes, exactly
Message:
Embarrassment's got to be the biggest reason exes post anonymously. But there are more: fear of some whacked-out premie attacking evil monmot former devotees to protect the Lord himself; concern that they not be entirely ostracised by the cult friends they've built their lives with; confusion, perhaps, about how to think about Maharaji and thus fear of hastily burning their bridges. Maybe some exes even fear the cult itself retaliating somehow. Anyway, you get the drift, Mel. There are several good reasons exes might take this tack. I can't think of a single one for premies though. Can you?
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 07:18:27 (EDT)
From: grrlzone
Email: None
To: All
Subject: the secret and sacred techniques
Message:
Since I left the techniques now seem very strange. It took me a while to figure out that the sounds I heard during 'music' had more to do with the blood ciculating in my head than tuning into some inner cosmic harmony, and that the light I saw was just the product of a slight pressure on my retina. But nectar? Taste buds tasting themselves? Mucous? Holy Name was really hyperventilating, no wonder I felt light-headed and airy. I recall some premies talking about seeing a thousand suns, the Great Hamster walking through a wood toward them, blue tunnels, the universe, listening to celestial sounds, overflowing with nectar, even levitating. How do we explain those strange things? Group hypnosis? A desire to out pious the pious? Lots of premies would boast about their meditation experiences. Did they make it up in order to get some cred?
All those snoring blankets sliding down the wall...
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 15:33:26 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: grrlzone
Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques
Message:
I know some people attribute positive things to meditation and I don't doubt it might benefit some people. But the meditation Maharaji advocated was not really for the purpose of having a nice 'experience.' [To this day I HATE the use of that meaningless word.] It was for the purpose of keeping you from thinking objectively about the belief system he was selling, about who the hell Maharaji is, and to give the whole thing an aura of spirituality, something very attractive to many of us westerners, especially back in the 70s.

In those days, remember, we were supposed to meditate constantly [it was a commandment], both nectar and 'holy name' and most of us certainly resorted to it when our rationality and values broke through to the surface pointing out the hypocrisy and contradictions of Maharaji and his cult. If that didn't work, we were instructed just to repress our doubts pursuant to his other commandment to leave no room for doubt in your mind.

This is what was so damaging about it, and why I don't do the four techniques that I received in the knowledge sesseion, because they are, to me, associated with mind control, authoritarianism, mindless devotion, and repression of my own better judgment.

If meditation were as enjoyable as some people claim, they would do it a lot more than they do. Maharaji just uses meditation as the hook to get people to think there is something special being 'disseminated.' But really, it's just the outward bait in his 'anti-mind' and 'worship me' religion.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:39:49 (EDT)
From: grrlzone
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques
Message:
And how a 'nice experience' can involve forcing ones tongue into an unnatural position is beyond me anyway. It hurt. I heard that some premies actually cut themselves to facilitate nectar. I was given special K when I was only 13. I had to meditate an hour before school and an hour before I went to sleep. I did that for five years. I'd even meditate on the bus to school, hyperventilate during class, whenever I could. Yes, it's all about stilling the mind and preventing critical thought.
They even gave out 'little knowledge' to kids in the seventies. It was just the eyeball pressing one. We did that in primary school. Would spend hours pushing our eyes back and talking about the light we saw. We'd tell each other that when we grew up we wanted to be premies, not brain-surgeons (or is there a metaphorical connection..), not doctors or lawyers, but brainwashed slaves.
I recall marathon meditation weekends where lots of premies would fart and hyperventilate under their blankets for up to five hours. I found it really hard to sit still for so long and I kept wanting to go to the toilet but felt that Mr Mind was just trying to distract me from the Experience (of having a full bladder and young limbs that should have been running about in the clean air outside...) And those bits of wood we had to lean on. How very very freaky. Mine became a strange fetish object. I'd wrap it up in my devotional blue blanket after every hour long session, say a few words of thanks to Satguru and then catch the bus to school and learn all about Hitler...
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:20:46 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: grrlzone
Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques
Message:
I think they did make them up. When I recieved K I hung out with a group of people who claimed to Astral Travel and visit eachother during meditation. I wondered why I was so unholy that all I did was fall asleep.

Sometimes when I am stressed I still find myself with my tongue up behind my uvula. I get mad when this happens.

I always wondered why they changed from hard eyeball pressing to light just touch your eyes. I am guessing that people were getting eye injuries from pressing too hard. Does anyone know?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:43:06 (EDT)
From: grrlzone
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques
Message:
Hi Susan!
I too sometimes find my tongue wondering down the back of my throat. I wa always a bit concerned with the profile this gave me though. Made me look as though I had a premature double-chin . Maybe it was finally my vanity that stopped me doing that all the time. Long live female vanity!
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:14:32 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: grrlzone
Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques
Message:
A big taboo in premieland is talking about one's own inner experience of Knowledge. Other taboos were often broken, but generally the premies I knew did in fact keep quiet about their own experiences of meditation. Occasionally a premie in our ashram would praise her experience, which seemed like bragging, and occasionally a certain other premie would publicly lament his personal lacking of experience, which would prove fruitless and embarassing. (Our ashram was initially co-ed).

In retrospect, of course, it is obvious that if premies routinely and honestly compared experiences, the myth of Knowledge would be threatened and people would have realized that not much divine bliss was going on under the meditation blankets.

Premies do definitely have a positive experience, but it is based much more on factors other than the four meditation techniques. The feeling of community is very powerful and comforting. The experience of satsang, ( i.e. sitting together and listening intently as one person speaks from their own experience) is likewise very powerful and comforting. Religious ritual, such as arti, again is comforting. As are festivals, doing selfless acts of service, depending on an authority figure, expressing acts of devotion to God and Truth, etc. I think the basic feeling is a sence of peace and harmony that manifests as a calm mind and open heart, specifically a tangible but mysterious feeling in the chest of 'love.'

I remember the first time I had an inkling that premies generally had difficulty with meditation. In Tucson, Maharaji said something to the effect 'I bet a lot of you would like to know the secret of meditation.' There was a huge response of agreement. I slowly discovered that premies in fact were generally lousy meditators. Since I myself had practiced meditations of various sorts before receiving Knowledge, I never related to the techniques as religiously as most ashramites. I noticed from what people would say that most premies approached meditation as an effort to have a certain experience. Quite the opposite approach is necessary in which a person sits and allows quietness to happen, to gain a feeling of acceptance. Acceptance of what is at that moment, no goals in sight. Chasing a preconceived phenonemon of any sort is counter productive. Maharaji as a meditation teacher is not worth his weight in dogshit. Light does glow inside. Love does reign over fear. One's separate self does dissolve into Self. But Maharaji's four postures of 15 minutes each, as he prescribes them, put people on a wild goose chase. I sometimes likened it to going to a carnival, jumping on the divine music ride for awhile, rushing over to the inner light ride, and so on. And ending up disappointed. Completely the wrong idea. In fact, spectacular experiences, when they do happen, are problematic.

Openly comparing meditation experiences here as exes is a good way to deprogram from Knowledge, but it is still a bad idea for anyone who still engages in any type of inner practice, since nothing could be more individual and private.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:50:45 (EDT)
From: grrlzone
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques
Message:
Only 15 min! So 90s. But I agree that it met peoples needs for community. I think you're spot on about all of that. For me though I'd read 'calm mind' as 'brinwashed into obediance mind'. And I'd rather experience some calm by walking in a wood or watching my darling sleep. The whole thing was far too introverted.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:15:42 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Experiences of Knowledge
Message:
K techniques have worked well for meditation for me, and as has been discussed here before, I go along with those of you who believe it is a biochemical/brain wiring thing that makes the most difference. The techniques do not seem to work for everyone, no matter how hard they seem to try. I was very surprised the first time I was told by an old-timer (still an avid devotee, a 'lifer') that his experiences of meditation were almost nil. For him, Knowledge was just the whole trip/trappings. Then there are those who have told me about how strong their experiences are and I know both of the parties are equally as devoted, so the difference must be in the brain. I think some of us just lucked out on the meditation-related neurotransmitter lotto.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:59:19 (EDT)
From: grrlzone
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Re: Experiences of Knowledge
Message:
For me, and I suspect for many others, I can't seperate the techniques from the Hamster. Also there was a lot of very heavy stuff associated with K. I heard many stories about ex-premies who had revealed K and suddenly been run over by a bus the next week and so on. Instant karma, man... It wasn't until I was about 21 that I finally, and with the help of some wine and pot, told some friends about the techniques. I was scared at the time and wondered for a while afterward if something really bad was going to happen to me. There was something rather too heavy about the context in which these techniques were passed on. And as we now know they are very common in India, and not a secret anymore.
I 'initiated' an old friend of mine electronically a couple of years ago. He'd also grown up with premies and he just couldn't believe how mad it all was. We laughed ourselves silly.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 14:15:32 (EDT)
From: Lee
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques
Message:
Hello Way

I thought your post was very interesting. I always kept pretty quiet about my experiences of meditation because I had a lot of problems with it. I only really ever enjoyed Holy Name - the other three I really struggled with. It used to piss me off when premies would talk about their light experiences - made me feel like there was something wrong with me or that I hadn't been revealed the technique properly in the knowledge session.

By the way, I was a bit confused by something you said - In fact, spectacular experiences, when they do happen, are problematic - what did you mean? Do you still meditate these days? I can't anymore - for the moment, I feel there are too many associations with maharaji that I would just rather not have.

Thank you for sharing your views.

Lee

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:57:04 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Lee
Subject: To Lee
Message:
Hello Lee,

I remember you from some of your past posts (it's hard to keep track, but eventually one forms an impression).

I now consider Rawat a great thief. It's ironic, really. He creates an environment where people can explore and express their inate thirst for higher truth. And then, as we attempt to quench this thirst via Maharaji and Knowledge, we associate all our inate experiences with his face, his name, his words. (Not any different from other paths and religions with their respective images and dogmas). But after we reject Rawat, we find that the established associations will not go away. The road to our own higher self seems tainted and linked irrevocably to the old ways. We cannot proceed. A great theft has occured.

This act of thievery is the reason behind the great anger felt by many exes. Several current premies have come on-line here and have been unable to understand this anger which they find excessive. But I do not find it excessive. In fact, Rawat's crime is horrendously hurtful and I personally think that exes should do more to expose the fraud before more people are victims. At least we have this forum which is available to the public.

When an ex-premie is unable to enjoy an association with their own higher self, they remain a victim of Rawat. I am not saying that Jim and Jerry and JW and Roger and Anth etc should all believe in God and start meditating again, but rather that we all should be able to differentiate between what is uniquely Rawat's folly and what remains our own relationship to truth.

To answer your question, I myself do meditate, but I do not use any of the techniques of Knowledge. The only thing I seek within is that power that is above me. I approach only so far as I am able to leave behind my own individual will. That is what I mean by spectacular experiences of meditation being problematic - I don't mean that thay are necessarily good or bad but just that they are really not the point and our progress stalls if we seek them. And even when they come, they can be deceptive. The point, instead, is learning to love. There is something that we want, when we are born, when we are on our death beds, and perpetually inbetween. And it is above us. This is the point. And there is no other valid reason for meditation. (Stress relief is a side effect).

Progress in meditation proceeds exactly opposite to the way progress is made achieving our goals in the material world. Exactly, diametrically opposite. Jesus expressed this idea many times, 'the first shall be last,' etc. etc. And, to be fair, Rawat also frequently teaches this idea, but he then attempts to realize this ideal in the material world and this is a great error. He only ends up subjugating his followers in pitiful ways.

All cults fail (such as the one in Austria that you mentioned below) when they attempt to bring the inner ideals into play in the material world, where they definitely do not apply. For instance, free love is fine spiritually, but physically there are a few complications, right? In the same way, surrender to the higher power is the true way of the Tao, interiorly, but surrender to fatguru, physically, sure as hell ain't. Similarly, waiting upon grace interiorly is all we can do, but waiting for grace to fill your pocketbook with hard cash is generally ineffective. On and on.

We who made the mistake of following a guru must work to reclaim our inherent power to find truth within ourselves.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 08:56:24 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re: To Lee
Message:
This act of thievery is the reason behind the great anger felt by many exes.

My anger stems from the fact that in my deepest depression, Maharaji was there to take avantage of that for his own benefit, not to help me in any way, although he acted, literally, as if he was God's gift to the world who could heal whatever ails you.

I don't care much for meditation, but I do enjoy just sitting with my eyes closed, just being conscious of whatever. I hear, that in independent studies, it's been shown to have the same effect.

I wonder when the whole thing got started. Who was the first guy who meditated and started the rage? Was it a caveman, maybe? Fred Flinstone? Maybe it went something like this:

Fred: Hey Barney, I just discoverd something that you might want to know about.
Barney: Er, what's that, Fred?
Fred: Meditation.
Barney: You don't say. What's that?
Fred: You just sit quietly, close your eyes, and look.
Barney: Er, look at what, Fred?
Fred: At whatever, Barney.
Barney: You don't say.
Fred: Try it Barney. I think you'll like it.
Barney: Er, okay, Fred. I'm closing my eyes and looking at whatever. Feels like I'm just closing my eyes, Fred. What's suppoded to happen?
Fred: I don't know. I just like doing it. Don't you?
Barney: Fred, are you okay?
Fred: I'm telling you, Barney. Mark my words. One day, this is going to be all the rage.
Barney: Er, okay, Fred. If you say so. Let's go bowling.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 11:20:51 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Response to Jerry
Message:
Jerry,

What do you call it when you 'enjoy just sitting with my eyes closed, just being conscious of whatever'? I would definitely call that a type of meditation. I would say that all people practice some form of meditation, if you allow the word to have its most generalized meaning. Gazing at a painting at a museum, gazing at your lover as he or she sleeps, taking a walk in the woods, watching a movie, drawing a picture, composing a poem - all such activities have the similar effect of quieting the superficial thoughts and allowing the consciousness to dwell in the mind's higher, deeper regions. These 'deeper regions' are the true final frontier, more unfathomable than any place on the planet or in outer space.

If Barney has no taste for the Collective Unconscious then I'm sure a game of bowling will prove quite satisfying, but his loss will not diminish Fred's adventure. I could be wrong but I still have the feeling you are more of a Fred than a Barney. After all, Barneys rarely become depressed. Some of us need to hear the voice of the muse within us and only its message of higher reality will calm our frustrations with the painful limitations of human ignorance. I will tell you what your problem is (forgive my presumption please) - you've accepted the great 20th century myth that matter has the capacity to organize itself into life forms without the power of Mind, and all the while your own mind is seeking its higher levels.

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 20:31:59 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re: Response to Way
Message:
Way, you're just mystifying normal human experience. There's nothing unfathomable about enjoying precious moments. The true frontier is not in enjoying these preferable states of consciousness but in understanding them, what the underlying mechanics are.

Knowledge is the true frontier, and I don't mean Maharaji's pseudo-knowledge. I mean real knowledge, like what you find in science books and in the thoughts of great thinkers, people who exercise and cultivate their minds instead of writing them off as being a handicap, such as blind guides, like you know who, would have us do.

This is also a BIG reason why Maharaji pisses me off. He took years off of my mental development. Now, in my mid 40s, it's doubtful I'll ever achieve the clarity of thought I might have if I had wise men instead of fools as my guide. I suppose part of it is my own fault. I did choose fools instead of wise men, didn't I? But still, good direction isn't exactly everywhere you turn.

I forgive you for being presumptuous. I haven't accepted any 'myth' about materialism. I just know that there is a correlation between matter and life which can't be denied. If anything's a myth, it's this imagined Mind you keep talking about.

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Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999 at 11:10:45 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Again to Jerry
Message:
Have you fully accepted Neo-Darwinism and the materialist world-view or not? Are you aware of the problems? Do you read all the major writers, or just the pro-side? Here's one that might joggle your brain cells a bit - 'Not by Chance' by Lee M. Spetner, published 1998 (available from Amazon). He has impressive credentials, has followed the subject for 40 years, and writes very well. He debunks Guru Dawkins' many myths with empirical evidence. You've escaped one Know-It-All only to fall victim to another.
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 03:49:22 (EDT)
From: Lee
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re: To Way
Message:
Dear Way

Thank you. You have outlined something there which I haven't been able to formulate for myself - the ideals of the spiritual world do not belong in the material world and vice versa. You have comforted me somehow with your words. I've got my own personal 'House of Drek' on my hard drive - it's a folder called ex-premie stuff and it's going in there!

I owe you a pint. Cheers till then.

Lee

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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 11:46:16 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Lee
Subject: Thanks so much, Lee (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:52:38 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: grrlzone
Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques
Message:
Hi there grrlzone! Welcome to the Forum. As far as the meditation is concerned, I actually had a good experience with it. I never saw anyone in the light or anything like that, never tasted nectar. But the discipline of meditation and the quieting of my mind was a positive thing for me while it lasted. And yes, lots of premies fell asleep under those blankets because many of us were sleep deprived as part of our service to the Lord. You'll likely get lots of responses from ex's about their reactions to meditation because our experiences were all different.

I read the post below in which you said that you had been raped by a mahatma. Grrlzone, my heart goes out to you. There are many who post here who suffered abuse at the hands of the cult and its agents, but sexual abuse by the mahatmas has to be the worst betrayal any of us could experience. The ex's who post here are very concerned and sympathetic to this problem and some of us are attempting to do something about it. We are a supportive community which cares about how the cult affected all of us, but especially about those who were deprived of their childhoods by the guru's designated saints.

I see in a thread below that your first posts here met with a rather frigid reception. I am sorry that happened. Sometimes that happens here before people get to know you, and sometimes it happens even after people get to know you. It is unfortunate that this sometimes happens between the ex's. Hopefully, that whole exchange will not be replicated with anyone else.

I hope that you will continue your contributions to the forum because I suspect you have a great deal to tell us and that we have a great deal to learn from you. The premies will probably attack you one time or another. It comes with the territory and their need to defend M's fading and beseiged empire.

Again, welcome.

Take care, Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:10:39 (EDT)
From: grrlzone
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques
Message:
Marianne,
thanks so much for your warm welcome. I feel OK about the fight I had with Joey. I figure he's got a hot temper and is pretty wounded. But I really can't abide that sort of language. No excuse.
Thanks for your support. I'm finding this formum very cathartic. There is so much still there that needs to be chased out of those dark places.
take care
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 20:20:22 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: grrlzone
Subject: Another welcome to grrlzone
Message:
Hi grrlzone -
I just wanted to echo Marianne's welcome to the forum. If my guess is right, you and I have communicated via e-mail in the past (I do have a new e-mail address now, BTW). Anyway, glad you're here and posting.

Love,
Katie
(GRRLZ RULE!)

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 20:37:41 (EDT)
From: grrlzone
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Grrlz rule!
Message:
Hi Katie.
yes we've communicated before and I have the same details. Write to me.
Thanks for the welcome!
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 16:03:34 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: grrlzone
Subject: Re: Grrlz rule!!!!
Message:
Dear Grrlzone -
I have switched computers about three times since we last e-mailed, so don't have your address - drop me a line when you get a chance.

BTW, I completely agree that you shouldn't have to talk about anything you don't want to on the forum. But I'm glad to see you here. (Also I am sorry you ran into some hostility, but that's the way the forum goes sometimes - people using too many aliases and so forth tends to make everyone suspicious. But mostly the people on here are good people, as you probably already know.)

Love,
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 15:06:29 (EDT)
From: joop
Email: dans@wishmail.net
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques
Message:
I was whit the guru tho from 70 80 ant i mis him
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 15:02:30 (EDT)
From: joop
Email: dans@wishmail.net
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 12:13:26 (EDT)
From: Larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Marianne
Subject: Nursery Crimes
Message:
Margie, Margie, man in chargie
How does your Grace still flow?
With waterfalls
And trinket stalls
And paedophiles all in a row, row, row
With paedophiles all in a row.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:15:40 (EDT)
From: grrlzone -
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Emily Dickinson
Message:
Larkin -
my life is -
a loaded gun -
come any closer -
into my point-
blank-
range-
and you will see -
your destiny
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:21:22 (EDT)
From: Larkin
Email: None
To: grrlzone -
Subject: Re: Emily Dickinson
Message:
Didn't quite understand your reply, but I hope I haven't given any offence, grrlzone. The rhyme was directed entirely at Maharaji, and the paedophile reference was to the growing number of abuse cases that seem to have happened within DLM/EV. Sorry if I gave any other impression.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:04:30 (EDT)
From: grrlzone
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Re: Emily Dickinson
Message:
The loaded gun has been withdrawn.
Confused you with ex-poet who irritates me. Not sure who is and isn't on side yet. Thought maybe you were having a go at Marianne. Just woke up. Yawn, stretch, growl.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:25:14 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: grrlzone
Subject: Re: Larkin the Poet
Message:
grrlzone: Thanks for your impassioned defense of me, but Larkin's my British pal, and a good one at that. Larkin often puts up funny rhymes. I vouch for him.

Love, Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 19:49:59 (EDT)
From: grrlzone
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Larkin the Poet
Message:
oops.
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Date: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 09:20:29 (EDT)
From: observer
Email: None
To: grrlzone
Subject: Re: Larkin the Poet
Message:
The ex-poet was Joey.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 05:14:42 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: All
Subject: Four questions for premies
Message:
In the nineteen-seventies, Marahari promised to feed the world. NB: he didn't say he hoped to feed the world - rather that he would feed the world. No metaphors, no understatements: he was talking about real food for real, hungry people. This is one big promise when you think about it. By the 'eighties this promise was quietly dropped.

It seems we can draw one of three conclusions:

(a) Maharaji was deluded
(b) Maharaji was lying
(c) Maharaji is a failure - so far, at least...

(There are no other alternatives.)

Whichever conclusion you opt for, you have to admit on this occasion (as on many others) Maharaji's words have proven unreliable.

Your questions:

(1) Is it wise to follow a Master whose words cannot be trusted?
(2) How do you know Maharaji's current words can be trusted?
(3) At what point in time did his teachings become reliable?
(4) How do you tell the difference between his reliable and unreliable statements?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 15:43:47 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: You Are In Your Mind
Message:
Nigel, you are so in your mind. Maharaji has said many times that it is from his fruits you will know him and by which you should judge him, and if you have the experience of that knowledge, you know he is that real, that genuine, and that he is giving the greatest gift, that gift which is greater than food, because the next day you will be hungry again, but with knowledge, you can go on having that experience forever, by this grace.

You cannot judge the perfect master by his words, because words are just words. You must judge him by that experience, which is of the heart, not of the mind or intellect.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 10:10:17 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: And what do they say? Hey, how about you, Deputy Dawg?
Message:
It seems we can draw one of three conclusions:

(a) Maharaji was deluded
(b) Maharaji was lying
(c) Maharaji is a failure - so far, at least...

(There are no other alternatives.)

Nige,

There seem to be two basic ways premies deal with this. If they're old-timers and were weaned on Indian fairy tales as Dave calls them, they'll fall back on the classic Hindu arguments that you can't hold the guru responsible for his words as you would interpret a tax code. It just doesn't work that way, end of story. In essence, they just squint at the words and breathe hard. In the back of their minds they remember that word they used to use so often, 'lila'.

On the other hand, they might take the bizarre (but not too bizarre for shameless cult members) tack of holding out for the possibility that the train's still coming, it's just a little late. When will it get hear? Hey, quit asking! The one thing you'd think you'd have learnt all this time is that you can't really say. That's just how it is.

Newer premies, on the other hand, are prone to go 'WHAT?? Give me a break! Look, I wasn't there, and it was a long time ago, and you seem like a jerk and -- know what? -- I just don't give a fuck. So there!

On the other hand, Deputy Dawg was refreshingly honest with me the other day in our discussion about anonymity. He conceded that there's no valid reason for premies to post anonymously except to avoid criticism and censure from Maharaji, the cult or their friends, colleagues and families. Criticism for what? For expressing their opinions. As he put it, maybe DD (and all the other anonymous premies) are just wimps. Like I say, it was refreshingly honest to hear a premie concede this point.

So what does DD have to say about this issue? How would he answer your questions, I wonder.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:42:47 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Deputy Dog
Message:
Why did you name yourself Deputy Dog. I imagine an annoying little man with a high pitched voice who isn't terribly bright. If I were going to choose a cartoon character for a name I would choose Wonder Woman or something. If I were a guy I would choose Superman, or Yogi Bear, or Scooby Doo, or Archie!

Deputy Dog was an annoyance.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:00:33 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Don't quibble with your confession, consider it instead
Message:
DD,

I ddin't mean to divert Nigel's question. Would you care to answer it?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 10:49:34 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Diversion (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 07:20:41 (EDT)
From: Orlando
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Nigel, you are such a bore (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 10:38:41 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Orlando
Subject: Typical premie non-answer(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 07:26:48 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Orlando
Subject: It isn't my intention to entertain you, Orlando
Message:
And as the Good Lord said: 'if you don't like it, WALK..!'

Jai Satchitanand

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 07:46:05 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Nigel
Subject: and by the way...
Message:
I expect any premie answers to the questions to be evasions, diversions or revisions. Predictably, Orlando's response was an evasion.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 07:19:39 (EDT)
From: Billy Graham
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: One Answer....Jesus your slow!
Message:
No-one gave a rat's toss?
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 09:43:02 (EDT)
From: Ms. Grammar
Email: None
To: Billy Graham
Subject: It Should Be....Jesus you're slow!
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:05:56 (EDT)
From: Mistress Grammar
Email: None
To: Ms. Grammar
Subject: Re: It Should Be....Jesus you're slow!
Message:
Ms. Grammar and Mistress Grammar are 2 different people.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 16:58:46 (EDT)
From: Ms. Grammar
Email: None
To: Mistress Grammar
Subject: Re: It Should Be....Jesus you're slow!
Message:
You're the one with the whip and I'm the liberated woman.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 06:50:06 (EDT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: Four questions for premies
Message:
It seems we can draw one of three conclusions:

(a) Maharaji was deluded
(b) Maharaji was lying
(c) Maharaji is a failure - so far, at least...

Or what about:
(d) Maharaji DID as he promised and got the food to feed the world's hungry, but one day ended up eating it all himself....

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 13:22:32 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Re: Four questions for premies
Message:
Or what about:

(e)Who do you think is responsible for the green revolution, as well as the proliferation of McDonalds, Kentucky Fried Chicken and Pizza Hut restaurants around the world? How many hungry millions have been fed in this way? It's Maharaji's grace and if you don't see it you are lacking in understanding.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 16:01:36 (EDT)
From: Mickey Moss
Email: ickymickey@home.com
To: JW
Subject: Old Kentucky Fried Guru had a farm; eieio
Message:
JW:

If HE wanted to he could just snap his fingers and provide Kentucky Fried Rat for the entire world. Because he is so merciful, he lets us do it. (Some of us at least, for a profit.) If HE wanted to he could open his mouth and eat the entire world, so the whole world would be fed... to HIM. HE is so merciful that, instead, HE lets us eat earth. So the earth *has been fed*... to us. You just have to see HIS perception and wisdom in the right context. Be creative!

-MM

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:57:41 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: LOL LOL (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 19:52:55 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Fairytales
Message:
Shp asked me 'As for reality vs Indian fairy tales, which Indian fairy tales did you buy that you do not now?'

The answer; all of them. The one about the crippled boy who told the King that none of it was real; the one about the devotee who went to get a glass of water for his master; the devotee who waited 40 years for knowledge and finally got it when he was an old man; The woman who swept the path for Rama; the perfect master who allowed himself to be eaten by a hungry tiger; Arjuna seeing Krishna's true form; Krishna and his catapult attack on the Gopi's milk jugs; Krishna telling Arjuna that his friends and reletives were already dead and he should kill them; and many more.

All fairy stories and none of them true or even worth listening to. Personally, I find the tales of the Arab epic, 'A Thousand And One Nights' to be much more gripping, realistic, funny and inspiring than any of the above Indian claptrap.

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Date: Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 21:08:11 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Fairytales
Message:
I think it was Buddha that allowed himself to be eaten by the hungry tiger. I've heard all the other stories, but am not familiar with the man waiting 40 years for Knowledge. Anything more to that one worth hearing?
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 16:35:31 (EDT)
From: Mickey Moss
Email: ickymickey
To: Grace
Subject: Re: Fairytales
Message:
Grace:

The ENTIRE elaborate tale goes like this:

Guy waits for K a long time; 40 years I think.

Inspiring ain't it?

-MM

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Date: Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 22:12:03 (EDT)
From: girlzone
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: The Lord of the Universe Complex
Message:
The biggest fairytale was that Mr Hamster was the Lord of the Universe. Many premies I knew thought that UFO's were buzzing around the festivals, that all the many aliens of the universe worshipped the Lard. I heard that the Hamster even set aside parking places for the UFOs at one early festival. His ego must be a very disturbed entity. I'm sure a shrink could do a classic paper on his psyche. The messianic complex taken to the further reaches of the universe where no wacko has ever been before.
So many urban myths were circulated in the cult. About ex-premies who died slow and painful deaths, consumed by Mr Mind. About a premie who was so desperate to open his third eye that he hacked a hole in his head with a shard of glass. Most premies I knew really thought they had a third eye. That's strange enough. It was all so unreal. So insane. But let's face it, the Hamster is MAD.
What I wonder is: does the Hamster really believe he's God now? If not, then how does a human being come to terms with having once been the Lord of the Universe? Post-Lord of the Universe disorder. He must have some crazy dreams. Do his children think he's divine? Did they? What a dysfunctional family. I wonder how many times he's snapped and freaked out. He must be paranoid, that would go with the Lord the Universe Complex. It's likely he's a bit schizo too. There's certainly something very unhinged about his web-page, about his satsang. Maybe he'll have a mid-life Lord of the Universe crisis and his fragile personality will disintegrate. I'd like to see that. Maybe he'll start binging and bloating in an attempt to ward off the loss. And the Hamster will get larger and larger and end up like Elvis. It's on the cards.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 06:36:40 (EDT)
From: LdM
Email: None
To: girlzone
Subject: Re: mid life Lord of Universe crisis
Message:
Dear Girlzone

Maybe he'll have a mid-life Lord of the Universe crisis and his fragile personality will disintegrate.

Yes, interesting idea! Certainly, coming to the realization that maharaji was not God has spurred me into a mid-life ex-premie crisis (a bit early, but what the hell!). He must be due up for some heavy re-evaluating in his life.

However, he can always wash all those doubts away temporarily by taking another snort on Holy Name or perhaps a pint of Indian lager? But those doubts always resurface. If you don't deal with the shit in your life, it just piles up and becomes ever more difficult to clear up. He's covered in it!

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 09:53:56 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: LdM
Subject: So How Is He Supposed to Bow Out?
Message:
Can you imagine if he decides he's had enough of it and wants to leave it? How does he do it?

1. Just secretly sell the Residences and buy himself a small island in the Pacific and sneak away and live happily ever after, never to be seen publicly again?

2. Have a satillite (sp?) program where he admits he is not really the Master?

3. Just stay where he is and stop having Events, making some excuse until the premies figure out he's retired?

4. Pass the 'Mastership' down to Daya and retire, still collecting 'royalties'?

5. Go back to India and become a devotee of 'the Other Lord of the Universe'!

6. Announce publicly he's not the Master and become a Christian and tell all the premies they need to find Jesus!

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 16:05:31 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Re: So How Is He Supposed to Bow Out?
Message:
He could tell the premies he's going back to India until they're ready for him and then skip to some island in South Pacific.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 20:14:25 (EDT)
From: grrlzone
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: All those uniniated aliens ...
Message:
I found this quote from the 70s. It's on the back of a photo of the Lard of the Universe looking especially bloated and wearing a blissful (perhaps drunk) smile. I think he has three chins.

'My mission in this world is to establish peace, but I need cooperation from all. We are very, very fortunate to have recieved this Knowledge and now it is our duty to spread it throughout the world. The way in which to do this is through DLM because DLM has been created for the purpose of spreading Knowledge... So now we must all join together and help the Mission to establish peace on this earth, and not only earth, maybe the universe.'
- Guru Maharaj Ji

To any greys out there and to Agent Moulder if you're listening - take it from us, he is not what he appears to be.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 02:34:18 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: girlzone
Subject: Re: The Lord of the Universe Complex
Message:
'And the Hamster will get larger and larger and end up like Elvis. It's on the cards. '

Ever see the Monty Python film 'The Meaning of Life'....the about the rather large gentleman eating a spoonfull too much............?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 05:03:15 (EDT)
From: grrlzone
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Re: The Lord of the Universe Complex
Message:
Yes, 'just a tiny bit more Sir'? Is it my imagination but is the Hamster getting fatter? I can remember in the seventies he had a real thing about choc and peanut butter. Somehow these foods would come up in his satsang all the time. One of my all time favourite Divine Times quotes is: 'Guru Maharaj Ji is the peanut butter. You are the knife. Spread it!' The Lord of the Universe as peanut butter, the propagation of world peace as the spreading of mashed nuts... And you'd have to be either nuts or brainwashed/mashed to think that a man who described himself as the Lord of the Universe AND compared himself to peanut butter is God.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 12:20:58 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: grrlzone
Subject: Lard of the universe indeed
Message:
Hi grrl (may I call you 'grrl'?),

Nothing to add to that. Just thought I'd say hello, welcome to the forum and ta for some great posts.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:23:40 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: grrlzone
Subject: hilarious !!!! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:55:11 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: God as peanut butter
Message:
Grrlzone & Susan: I guess M would be chunky, not smooth, peanut butter, wouldn't he?

LOL, Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:02:06 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: God as peanut butter
Message:
I'd say he could be pretty smooth at times, though, so who knows?
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 00:22:45 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: girlzone
Subject: Re: The Lord of the Universe Complex
Message:
There was a woman who used to hang out in the NYC scene in the 70's who was obviously disturbed (kind of a bag lady who I think had a picture of Krishna she would carry around while she talked to herself). The way I remember it, she eventually received knowledge and at some point plucked her eyes out, attempting to follow the biblical 'if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out', which she had heard in some fanatical satsang (and sounds like one of our beloved mahatma's, doesn't it?).

Someone prob remembers it better than me, but it was clearly a case where the 'enlightened' beings should have known to bow out of her case and let her alone, since they were not capable of providing any real kind of support, help or therapy to someone like that (and God knows she could have used a caring person, organization, etc.).

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 05:07:07 (EDT)
From: grrlzone
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: The Lord of the Universe Complex
Message:
That is a very sad tale. Poor woman. There are so many tragic stories associated with this cult and the awful, awful thing is that more are already in the making.
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Date: Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 22:36:45 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: girlzone
Subject: Is Shp really girlzone??
Message:
Just kidding, girlzone. You make perfect sense. Shp, at times, makes some sense. Just wanted to say nice to hear from you. About Maharaji's dreams ... wow, that's a thought, isn't it?
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 08:03:50 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Not copping to Jim's pidgeonholes.
Message:
Jim,

Oh my God, I have wet myself just imagining your beaming shining face looking down on me in even partial approval....I am beside myself with piss, I mean bliss, that you think I actually, 'at times, make some sense'. Please oh please send me one of your used guitar picks so I can put it on my alter. Or maybe an old legal brief......

Shp

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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 00:18:31 (EDT)
From: girlzone
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Is Shp really girlzone??
Message:
Nice to know that someone isn't out to savage me.
I had no idea that this forum could be so vitriolic. I'm still shaking from the evil crap that was thrown at me by nimzone or whatever HE calls himself. But I'm not pulling out.
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Date: Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 23:27:01 (EDT)
From: My guess
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No Jim, girlzone is our night MARE!!
Message:
Yes, isn't it now?:::))
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 00:02:05 (EDT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: My guess
Subject: Not nightMare
Message:
My guess -- I don't think girlzone is the nightMare.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 09:30:08 (EDT)
From: Caritas
Email: None
To: Know It All
Subject: Unequivically not Mary M ;-) nt
Message:
nt
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