Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 08:16:52 (GMT)
From: Dec 31, 1999 To: Jan 15, 2000 Page: 1 Of: 5


Sniggs -:- A totally unique event -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 09:43:29 (GMT)
__ CBI -:- A totally unique event -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 10:03:59 (GMT)
__ __ Your angel -:- You're catching a virus -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 02:37:54 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Where Elan Vital have it wrong -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 01:55:59 (GMT)
__ hater of truth -:- A totally unique event -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 19:07:05 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- No worry, we'll get the feed -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 16:27:41 (GMT)
__ Ben Lurking -:- A totally unique event -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 10:10:00 (GMT)
__ __ VATMAN -:- Will they pay? -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 15:23:36 (GMT)
__ __ Lee -:- A smashing way to make MONEY -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 10:54:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shifting -:- A smashing way to make MONEY -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 19:00:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ The Postmistress -:- A Potential Best Off -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 11:48:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shifting -:- Who do they think they are? -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 05:43:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Who do they think they are? -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 01:30:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Here's how Rawat gets the $ -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 11:39:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Here's how Rawat gets the $ -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 19:14:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Enough Already -:- Here's how Rawat gets the $ -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 00:59:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- EV is a church, no doubt, then -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 16:56:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Who's going to give details? -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 09:51:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ me -:- I know -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 17:23:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Wrong: megalomania (nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 17:29:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Nirvana -:- I think I'm dumb -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 03:20:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ mimi -:- I am not dumb anymore -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 03:58:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ link -:- Here's how Rawat gets the $ -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 22:04:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Link, a question for you.... -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 00:02:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Link, a question for you.... -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:05:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- KNOWLEDGE BY MAIL!!!! -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 11:27:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JW -:- Well Said, and So True (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 23:56:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Christopher -:- Totally unique= unique,no?(nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 20:30:17 (GMT)

Powerman -:- What would you do if -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 04:58:41 (GMT)
__ Sifting -:- What would you do if -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 05:17:05 (GMT)
__ __ ham -:- Start taking the piss -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 00:13:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ Powerman -:- Start taking the piss -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 04:54:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ The Postmistress -:- Contridiction in Terms -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 09:59:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Taking the piss -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 17:26:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Taking the piss -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 22:26:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Taking the piss -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 02:51:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Taking the piss -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 03:14:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Christopher -:- The piss? ... a Brit responds -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 19:20:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- The piss? ... a Brit responds -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 02:53:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ The Postmistress -:- Making fun of someone -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 18:07:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Making fun of someone -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 20:04:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ The Postmistress -:- #ullshit -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 19:27:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Christopher -:- ContrAdiction, miss getitrite? -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 19:49:03 (GMT)

Deputy Dog -:- Christopher...beliefs -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 03:00:20 (GMT)
__ Christopher -:- Christopher...beliefs -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 20:02:39 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Christopher...beliefs -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 17:41:38 (GMT)
__ __ Christopher -:- Dig that synchronicity, Dog... -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 20:38:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Gregg -:- Dig that synchronicity, Dog... -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 21:24:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Christopher -:- That old song ... -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 16:26:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- That old song ... -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 04:25:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shifting -:- MOTIVES -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 17:36:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- MOTIVES -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 03:07:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shifting -:- your motives -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:46:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- your motives -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:29:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ christopher -:- complete trust and confidence -:- Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 15:48:28 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Self Deception -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 13:06:12 (GMT)
__ Shifting -:- When.... -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 04:28:48 (GMT)

michael -:- green tea -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 01:11:00 (GMT)
__ Deputy Dog -:- green tea -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 04:05:18 (GMT)
__ __ michael -:- green tea -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:09:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- green tea -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 03:26:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Who???? -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 05:53:09 (GMT)
__ Shifting -:- what green tea? -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 01:37:00 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- bad day -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 03:16:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shifting -:- thanks -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 03:53:31 (GMT)
__ __ michael -:- what green tea? -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 02:19:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shifting -:- green -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 04:03:07 (GMT)
__ __ Runamok -:- what green tea? -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 01:46:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shifting -:- spill the beans -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 04:24:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- I've been through this too -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 16:53:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shifting -:- i don't like him either -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 19:16:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- hurting families -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 04:33:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Des Perado -:- hurting families -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 12:06:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- that is great Des. :) (nt) -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 12:32:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shifting -:- hurting families-Thanks -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 05:07:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Michael (the other one) -:- hurting families-Thanks -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 05:29:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shifting -:- Where is the link for recent e -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 19:21:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Michael -:- Where is the link for recent e -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 19:57:33 (GMT)

selene -:- stop please -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 00:06:22 (GMT)
__ carol -:- stop please -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 00:12:38 (GMT)
__ __ Runamok -:- stop please -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 01:50:50 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- stop please -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 00:19:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- stop please -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 01:36:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ selene -:- stop please -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 01:50:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- stop please -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 16:05:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- stop please -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 16:46:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Des Perado -:- please stop -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 18:09:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Des under house arrest -:- i'M COMING DOWN WITH SOMETHING -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:11:52 (GMT)

JW -:- Email to Maharaji -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 21:51:19 (GMT)
__ I Nominate.... -:- Roger, **BEST**? -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 19:41:00 (GMT)
__ Carol -:- Way to go Joe!Me too will do -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 00:02:07 (GMT)
__ __ JW -:- Great Carol -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 00:24:09 (GMT)
__ Shifting -:- Email to Maharaji -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 22:59:40 (GMT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Email to Maharaji -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 03:55:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ JW -:- Thanks to la-ex -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 18:13:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ex-Lax Premie -:- Email to Maharaji -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 04:25:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Christopher -:- Email to Maharaji -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 21:04:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Joe, yer not gonna believe thi -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 20:21:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Des Perado -:- It's Not What You Say, -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 12:10:57 (GMT)

Carol -:- Last message til April 1st -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 21:29:59 (GMT)
__ bb-I like you Carol but -:- The tao is crapola. -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 19:15:43 (GMT)
__ Des Perado -:- Don't go yet! -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 06:45:45 (GMT)
__ __ carol -:- Don't go yet! -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 08:15:17 (GMT)
__ Powerman -:- Last message til April 1st -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 22:13:50 (GMT)
__ __ Carol -:- Just now .. -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 22:38:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Just now .. -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 23:01:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ michael -:- Just now .. -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 23:17:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ carol -:- Whirled Peas? -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 00:28:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Whirled Peas=World Peace nt -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 02:46:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Exactly, whirled peas (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 23:42:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Just now .. -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 23:37:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ michael -:- ur wlcm {:-) nt -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 23:42:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Powerman -:- Just now .. -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 22:55:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ carol -:- What are you full of? nt Bye -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 08:18:18 (GMT)

Christopher -:- Great 'Journey', Carol! -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 20:41:06 (GMT)

me -:- I wont talk to you: -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:42:31 (GMT)

video-dude -:- Hey brother, can you spare$30? -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:30:29 (GMT)
__ Shifting -:- Hey brother, can you spare$30? -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:58:34 (GMT)

Shifting -:- Deception -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:24:28 (GMT)
__ Another irresponsible -:- child wanting an easy way out -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 02:47:36 (GMT)
__ __ Jethro -:- child wanting an easy way out -:- Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 18:18:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shifting -:- child wanting an easy way out -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 03:50:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- child wanting an easy way out -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 06:21:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shifting to Jethro -:- I was wrong -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 06:44:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Difference is... -:- they didn't choose to be there -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 01:55:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ We didn't know..... -:- and trusted him to his word -:- Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 06:15:56 (GMT)
__ recent ex -:- Deception -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:43:57 (GMT)

Robyn -:- fighting on the forums -:- Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 17:28:17 (GMT)
__ ij -:- fighting on the forums -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 17:53:51 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- fighting on the forums -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:14:01 (GMT)
__ Charlie -:- fighting on the forums -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 00:07:41 (GMT)
__ __ barney -:- just a test -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 05:05:03 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- fighting on the forums -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 00:34:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Des Perado -:- fighting on the forums -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 06:16:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- fighting on the forums -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 07:33:20 (GMT)

Marianne -:- Coventry exes? -:- Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 17:21:44 (GMT)
__ Sir David -:- Coventry exes? Yes! -:- Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 18:13:54 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Coventry exes? Yes! -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 11:28:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Looking into those Irish eyes -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:07:36 (GMT)
__ __ gERrY -:- Coventry exes? Yes! -:- Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 20:42:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Gerry, you meanie! -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 11:32:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir David -:- Coventry exes? Yes! -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 00:24:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Omigod, Dave and thanks P-Man -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 15:53:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Omigod, Dave and thanks P-Man -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 17:31:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Coventry exes? Yes! -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 02:28:52 (GMT)

The other Forum God -:- Getting political here -:- Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 13:52:23 (GMT)

AJW -:- Hate Site -:- Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 12:29:29 (GMT)
__ Bill =the rotton hateful -:- apple in the bunch -:- Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 20:19:31 (GMT)
__ __ Rot -:- Ap -:- Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 20:24:23 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- premie barfing the buzzword -:- Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 16:46:23 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- Well said, AJW! -:- Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 16:07:59 (GMT)
__ __ Christopher -:- Well said, AJW! -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 11:43:56 (GMT)
__ __ bb -:- Well said, AJW! -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 00:29:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- Relax, BB -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 20:01:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bb -:- Relax, BB -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 19:28:07 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Hate site misnomer -:- Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 17:13:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Powerman -:- Hate site misnomer -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 04:56:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- It DOES have an effect IMO -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 11:01:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- It DOES have an effect IMO -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 16:25:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Do any premie really care? -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 17:01:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Maya means what? -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:38:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- According to Rawat, Maya is -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 17:51:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- According to Rawat, Maya is -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 23:52:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Do any premie really care? -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 18:15:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Exactly, and this is where -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 18:43:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Exactly, and this is where -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 20:03:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- You're going to far I think -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 22:32:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- You're going to far I think -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 22:58:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Christopher -:- Clear as a bell, Powerman (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 21:20:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- I agree -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 11:44:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Des Perado -:- I agree -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 12:36:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Read my journey -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 21:34:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Read my journey -:- Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 00:15:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Read my journey -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 22:28:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- I love you too -:- Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 11:30:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Hate site misnomer -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 07:58:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Hate site misnomer -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 16:31:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Charlie -:- It's frothy! -:- Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 01:05:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Hate site misnomer -:- Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 18:21:54 (GMT)


Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 09:43:29 (GMT)
From: Sniggs
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A totally unique event
Message:
In my letterbox this morning...

SPECIAL SATELLITE BROADCAST ON 16 JANUARY

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 10:03:59 (GMT)
From: CBI
Email: None
To: Sniggs
Subject: A totally unique event
Message:

CBI responded:
Just worked out that you double click on the red to get the full invitation. Almost wish I hadn't. I have only just put my eyeballs back into their sockets.

Featuring original music and footage, which M has been working on for the past several weeks. Now there's quality.

The whole thing reads like the great chefs of Europe have got together and prepared a banquet for those lucky enough to attend.

What in fact will be served up to the premies. The usual fare only using different dinnerware. Don't they ever get sick of it.

The ending was cute. Registered as a carity.

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 02:37:54 (GMT)
From: Your angel
Email: None
To: CBI
Subject: You're catching a virus
Message:
CBI, you've been hanging with these poor souls long enough that you're starting to sound like one of them.

Have you ever spent a lot of time around a really negative person? Don't you just get real tired of their obsession with negativity? And ever notice how these people seem to find each other's company?

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 01:55:59 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Sniggs
Subject: Where Elan Vital have it wrong
Message:
Elan Vital write: 'On this occasion there will NOT be a video produced for later screening'

Well that's what they think. I have full video production facilities and can churn copies out, hundreds a day. Anyone want a copy - just email me.

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 19:07:05 (GMT)
From: hater of truth
Email: None
To: Sniggs
Subject: A totally unique event
Message:
How ome there are so many damned phones in england.
How many people do you think there are there involved with
this cult?
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 16:27:41 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Sniggs
Subject: No worry, we'll get the feed
Message:
it looks like the broadcast will be hijacked, and we'll get the feed on the Net.

Keep in touch for details ......

No need to send any money to EV, brother.

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 10:10:00 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Sniggs
Subject: A totally unique event
Message:
Why would a charity in england need to charge VAT on a religous event?
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 15:23:36 (GMT)
From: VATMAN
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Will they pay?
Message:
Do they give out VAT receipts when you buy a ticket?

Let's see. 3,000 tickets, £20.00 a shot, that must be about £9000 per event they're paying the Vatman.

Maybe someone should write to the Vatman and check if they've paid.

VATMAN

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 10:54:11 (GMT)
From: Lee
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: A smashing way to make MONEY
Message:
Hi there

Haven't written for absolutely ages but seeing the stuff about satellite broadcasts has really got me annoyed.

The question about the VAT - how come they have the cheek to add the VAT (which they shouldn't charge anyway) into the £20 admission fee per person. If they really are charged VAT on hiring the halls etc., then they merely claim it back on their next VAT return. It's a poorly veiled excuse for raising more money for someone who's too paranoid to show his face in Europe and too fat to get off his arse and do some work! He could use the exercise.

Lee

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 19:00:59 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: all
Subject: A smashing way to make MONEY
Message:
LOOK AT THE WORDING THEY USE!!

IMPERATIVE=OBLIGATORY. A MUST...

...HAS COST A LOT OF MONEY TO PREPARE..[p]

REDUCED PAYMENT....HEAR IT? PAYMENT!! IF YOU ARE UNEMPLOYED. OH, SO MUCH COMPASSION FOR HIS PREMIES...GIVE SOMETHING!![p]

TO ALLOW...WE DO REQUEST (asking for money=request) ADDITIONAL DONATION OVER AND ABOVE THE 20.00 CHARGE. OH MY!![p]

THEY ARE NOT MAKING A VIDEO OF IT, SO YOU BETTER BE THERE, OR YOU'LL MISS IT!

HE PREPARED IT HIMSELF! YOU SHOULD GO....

Sorry premies. Is time to start reading between the lines. Is time to wake up.[p]

My interpretation is that IT is time to milk because it sounds like is very bad... There is a need to save for the winter, you know? Is there something coming that will expose the 'behind the scene' schemme, and they are preparing for it? sAVING FOR THE FUTURE?[p]

I have never seen a pubLic paper been written this way...

On 1996 I worked in Long Beach with the sales, at a program. I traveled to Long Beach three days ahead to prepare the set up of the sales. At one point we were taken to a meeting, and there the whole discussion was on how to sell better. One of the head guys began to give ideas of how to do it, how to talk people into buying things, and at some point he said; don't think about anything, but concentrated in selling. He gave us lines of how to convince people to buy. Laughing he said: They are going to go and spend the money in something else anyway, so is better they spend it here... I did not like that, because you needed to be there to understand the atmosphere around there. While i was there it felt very weird to me. It was insane. I don't know if my words can describe what I saw and heard, but the bottom line is that the meeting had an incredible amount of evidence about how people going to those events are viewed. He went further to say that because people are blissed out while there, it is easy to sell them stuff. Monica, m secretary was there, as well as other PAMs. What this guy said was approved by everyone there? We sold almost all. Just few things were left.[p]

Becoming an ex-premie has been a process that did not started here, by reading the experiences of others, but also for what I have witnessed over the years when I was involved and saw some internal BS. He's smart enough. Does he approve the behavior of the PAMs he has around? Doesn't he know what they are doing? Or are the PAMs (persons around m) doing it on their own? Anybody knows about this?[p]

I want to hear the braodcast just to see it.[p]

The money subject can be justified and explained by premies in many ways, but the reality is that unless you know the details behind, it all seems so innocent. Is nothing innocent to his wealth...[p]

My ex-husband went to M's residence when they were rebuilding the palace, and even that he is (my ex-husband) such a devotee he came and told me that he got sick by seeing the palace, that he didn't understand that part at all. The excuse of the premies is that maharaji doesn't ask for anything, but that the premies do everything for him, because they are having such a nice experience thanks to M. What is going on?![p]

I can wait to see what is coming. How many more people have to commit suicide for getting confused? If you believe in karma, what will be their karma for doing what they are doing, deceiving people? Many facts are hidden to the premies.[p]

The sad thing is that when you are in the middle, involved, believing, you cannot see anything bad about it. Everyone who is around him, the PAMs are victimes of the same dillussion from which M. suffers. He needs the events to continue believing he's is the lord. The whole thing is all screwed up, but....what a heck....they have to continue, because otherwise, what are they going to do with their lives: they don't have a mind of their own. They have created they own reality, and even that it looks so believeble, if somebody begins to dissect piece by piece, all falls into place, apart. It is very sad for me to think about all the followers...I was one.[p]

I dare any premie to begin to think! Have room for doubts, please!!

I FEEL MORE PEACE TODAY THAN WHEN I WAS PRACTICING KNOWLEDGE. Duality exists only because you were programmed to belive it. Of course there is duality, because the real you, deep inside know the truth. The fight will be there to the end... We were robbed from the opportunity to be just orselves, and it happened in such a slow pace, that we didn't even know how it happened. Do yourselves a favor: QUESTION!

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 11:48:05 (GMT)
From: The Postmistress
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: A Potential Best Off
Message:
Shiftings message is the best I've read on this theme.
I vote this thread be considered complete.
Cheers Shifting, TP.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 05:43:01 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: The Postmistress
Subject: Who do they think they are?
Message:
It's sickening. Totally sickening. Premies need to grab a paper and a pencil and do some additions and multiplications: It doesn't add up. It is tooooo much!! If all is an illussion, money is an illussion too? but, what a heck, that illussion is much better in his pocket, you know? That's why 'they' terrified of the press...Imagine if details are exposed. Numbers. Sniggs post. Pictures of God. Kissing stinky feet, etc. What in the hell are they doing with the money?
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 01:30:26 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: Who do they think they are?
Message:
One thing I learned about money from rawat - its better in my pocket than his, i am sure he thinks premies money is better in his pocket than theirs. Why take a little when he can take it all. Is it GREED? Is it avarice? G?A?A?A?
ARGGGGGGGGGGG. All premies try an experiment in lila send ben lurking all your money and tell EV that it was the craziest damm lila. You can experience the need, the want the desire for M so much if neither of you have the money - send it know to
Ben Lurkings International condo, scam and retirement fund.
I have represenatives secretley disguised on each street corner, they look homeless but are just waiting for you to come along and give them, my agents, all your money, shucks invite them home get back into the comunal living spirit.
AH fuck it mikes right, you guys are too stupid
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 11:39:30 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: Here's how Rawat gets the $
Message:
The uplink for TV transmission costs from 1,000 to 2,000 $ per hour
The satellite use is almost free, maybe 50 $ per hour for 1 channel.

Say the programm will last 2 hours, plus 1 hour for checking the equipment, that makes a maximum 10,000 $ real cost.

Where goes the 100,000 or 200,000 EV/Visions is charging?

Visions is very likely paying this amount to some PAM owned consultant who's going to make the profit. Of course EV won't make ANY profit on this.

And then, Mr X, the boss of the consultant company is going to 'donate' some 100,000 to 200,000 $ to Rawat, minus the real cost (10,000).

Why can't we have a look at EV's books ? This is a non-profit charity after all! Don't they have a charity commission in California?

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 19:14:17 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Here's how Rawat gets the $
Message:
Yes, they do have a Charity Commission in California, it's called the Registrar of Charitable Trusts. But the real issue here is the IRS and the Franchise Tax Board in California. If Elan Vital/Maharaji is using some outside corporation to run money through to get it to Maharaji, THAT is tax fraud. Pure and simple. And, in that case, Elan Vital, as a non-profit corporation, would be acting illegally, indirectly using its non-profit status to raise income for an individual. That's illegal and something the IRS would be very interested in, because they are due income taxes on that money.

J-M, the scenario you stated would fill that bill, and the outside corporation which makes the 'donation' might also be liable for tax fraud and for conspiracy to commit tax evasion.

Question: Does anyone know if premies deduct donations to EV, and payments for these satellite feeds from their income taxes as charitable donations? If so, that's even worse.

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 00:59:39 (GMT)
From: Enough Already
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Here's how Rawat gets the $
Message:
Was up with this? Outdated?

Go to the following site

Type in Elan Vital

Get ready for a surprise, surprise, surpirse.

Charity!

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 16:56:55 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Enough Already
Subject: EV is a church, no doubt, then
Message:
what ?

A curch is a curch is a church is a church ......

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 09:51:56 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Who's going to give details?
Message:
I'm not trying to be mean with Mr Rawat. I'm trying to de-mystify the whole money business. Maybe I'm totally wrong with my suppositions, but there is definitely a grey area here, to say the least.

Sending TV Programs is definitely expensive, but not that much. And far from it!

The costs I've indicated are the costs here in Europe, and I've got them from an consultant-ingeneer in satellite TV transmissions.

There is a huge difference between what EV gets from the premies watching the transmission, and EV's real expenses. There has to be a reason for this. And I can't imagine another one. EV is supposedly non-profit and a charity, using volunteer workers, and there can't be valid justifications for such overhead expenses.

Beside this, I guess there might be various scenarios:

1/ PAMs made a TV transmission company, and purchased the equipment, which is of course very expensive (a few millions, depending on the equipment they've purchased - and it'll definitely be paid by the profit made with the first 2 or 3 transmissions).
I wouldn't be surprised if this is the right option, according to Rawat's megalomaniac needs.
Maybe that company won't make any profit during the first months.
But then they'll own a few million $ equipment, and god knows what's going to happen with the profits, or re-sale of the equipment. My guess is Mr Rawat will then get the 'gifts', if he doesn't get it now.

2/ EV is hiring maybe not only one, but 2 or more 'private' PAM owned companies to technically manage and organize the whole project. And of course these companies will make millions $ profit every year. And guess who's going to get the 'gift'?

Anybody seeing ANY other scenario or reason for the huge gap between the actual cost and EV's requirements/needs?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 17:23:34 (GMT)
From: me
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I know
Message:
GREED
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 17:29:18 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: me
Subject: Wrong: megalomania (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 03:20:11 (GMT)
From: Nirvana
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: I think I'm dumb
Message:
This guy works to make music and some cool posters to put on the telephone poles to get people to come to the show.

This guy puts on his show. Gets some help from his friends to drive the van.

Some people come and pay to see the show.

Sometime later this one guy has more money than before his show.

Sounds like the American Free Enterprise System to me.

He worked, sold his work, got money, and paid his taxes.

Which part am I missing here?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 03:58:45 (GMT)
From: mimi
Email: None
To: Nirvana
Subject: I am not dumb anymore
Message:
You think he payed his taxes....Maybe he didn't. Read the post Pictures of God. When you talk about God, all is a different song...Is not from the heart; as you said, he worked...he works hard ofr the money... Oh no, it was: She works hard for the ,oney....Yeap, just a bussiness.
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 22:04:44 (GMT)
From: link
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Here's how Rawat gets the $
Message:
During the raiseing of money for the extra land at the malibu
house, Yurim Wiess came to boston at an official elan vital
event that was a regularly scheduled regional program
every three months or so. That meeting was some videos of
p rawat and then a slide show of the house and the land.
We were to write on some donation cards how much we could
donate a month for the 'needed' land for his house.

That is elan vital raiseing funds directly for his private
benefit and his house and land.
That happened all over the world.
How does that sound to the irs guys?
usable? Need witnesses?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 00:02:22 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: link
Subject: Link, a question for you....
Message:
After the premies filled out the cards, offering to donate money for Maharaji's residence on a monthly basis, who or what did the money get paid to? Was it paid to Elan Vital? Was the money raised only in cash? Did people write checks? Over how long of a period did people commit to send in money on a monthly basis? Years?

I'm no expert on the IRS laws, but I think to have an offical Elan Vital meeting, a meeting of a tax-exempt, non-profit, used to raise money for a person's personal residence is illegal.

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:05:02 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Link, a question for you....
Message:
You were supposed to write 'gift' and specify that it was for the
land. I will go through the file I got and see if I dont have
the paperwork on it.
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 11:27:08 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: All
Subject: KNOWLEDGE BY MAIL!!!!
Message:
Yes, we will soon have the Maharaji College of Knowledge by mail -- just like they advertise on matchbooks in the states! They really are scraping the bottom of the barrel, aren't they?

I'm looking forward to reading how the satellite broadcasts are advertised in the US. Very interesting information in that announcement for the UK. Diverting funds to another purpose could be a problem.

Shifting -- great post!

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 23:56:43 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: Well Said, and So True (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 20:30:17 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Totally unique= unique,no?(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 04:58:41 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What would you do if
Message:
you were sitting in a coffee shop and maharaji walked in and sat down at table across the room? Would you approach him? Would you say anything?
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 05:17:05 (GMT)
From: Sifting
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: What would you do if
Message:
Hard to say because I would like to say to him a few things, but if in the other hand I think that he's a victim himself... He is not in touch with other realities, but his own. He too was brainwashed. Worse, at such an early age. He is a coocky lord. If I approach him, he probably would continue walking, while the securities threw me someplace...[p]

I would love to have the opportunity to talk with him...It wont happen. We are in our minds, remember? He talks only to hearts, remember? Such a out of touch personality! The King of Kings...naaaa

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 00:13:40 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Sifting
Subject: Start taking the piss
Message:
inna Ali G stylee, almost for definite (sorry only Brits will get this one)

Ignore him while making it plain he's a complete & total wanker, & THEN piss myself with laughter, inside of course

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 04:54:14 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Start taking the piss
Message:
I hadn't thought of that. Yes, a brit would be best. An American would be rude or insulting or confront him or be sincere or something. Yeah, ignoring him and taking the piss out of him would be most fitting.
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 09:59:30 (GMT)
From: The Postmistress
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Contridiction in Terms
Message:
zzzzzzzzzz
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 17:26:49 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: The Postmistrezz
Subject: Taking the piss
Message:
Dear Postmistrezz,

You really should get more sleep. But help me out here. What does 'taking the piss' mean?

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 22:26:46 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Taking the piss
Message:
Dear Gerry,
Have you ever heard of the saying, He/she is full of piss and vinegar? It is the persons fight, hutspa(bad, bad spelling!) To take the piss out of someone is to deflate their ego. At least that is what I think.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 02:51:29 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: glyng@techline.com
To: Robyn
Subject: Taking the piss
Message:

gerry responded:
I agree, Robyn. P&V is a Pa dutchie saying, tho.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 03:14:42 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Taking the piss
Message:
Dear Gerry,
'I agree, Robyn. P&V is a Pa dutchie saying, tho.'
Oh Christ! I didn't know that! I have been here so long, next thing you know I'll be saying, 'I want to buy some pop to take to the crick with me!'
I AM NOW A TRUE COUNTRYBUMPKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 19:20:25 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: The piss? ... a Brit responds
Message:
'Taking the piss'

Now there's a phrase.

I'm pretty confident that it has nothing to do with naturopathic milkmaids at an Ayurvedic clinic.

The Cockneys use rhyming slang (naturally) and call it 'taking the Mick' (or Michael) after one Micky Bliss, whoever he might have been.

But enough of the etymology already, what's it mean?

It CAN mean to do this' (don't forget to read the instructions)

P.S. You might have fun checking links like the one
called 'taking the piss'.

Give my regards to Gaberdine Angus, won't you.

Enjoy

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 02:53:39 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: The piss? ... a Brit responds
Message:
Dear Chris,
I stretched David Letterman. It was cute. Do you know who he is?
The other link is great. I book marked it and was reading the boxer shorts thing to my daughter! :) I don't know what it has to do with taking the piss out of someone though!? I just thought did you think we were talking about piss as in passing water!? No, no, no. Sorry if that is the case, still like that link. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 18:07:44 (GMT)
From: The Postmistress
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Making fun of someone
Message:
Cheers.
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 20:04:10 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: The Postmistress
Subject: Making fun of someone
Message:
MMMMmmm Postmistress,

Not bad, but it carries with it a much sharper cutting edge than making fun. And if there are signs of pretention in the receiver, which would be inevitable with chubs, then it's no-holds, but stylishly done.

And lets be serious here, there's plenty of material for any half-decent wit to get to grips with

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 19:27:19 (GMT)
From: The Postmistress
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: #ullshit
Message:

The Postmistress responded:
A big blob of bovine excretia.

The, 'get it right' Postmistress

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 19:49:03 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: The Postmistress
Subject: ContrAdiction, miss getitrite?
Message:
... and bovril bypasses to you.
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 03:00:20 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Christopher...beliefs
Message:
Christopher,

Thanks for your thoughtful note 'many beliefs.' I reproduce it hear because it had fallen into the inactive index and I couldn't reply there.

Sure I am grateful to M for the techniques and wonder how many people (I've yet to see it) e-mail this site and thank them for the wonderful experience of Knowledge supposedly revealed here. IMO Knowledge is more than techniques.

M definitely profits from this and he probably has as much money as one of the Spice Girls. Like you say, 'the inflow and outflow of breath as a means of centring and balancing our often troubled daily lives - it can be a powerful rudder. Worth teaching, and worth learning.' My advice is take yoga.

I see M as a friend not a parent figure. You say, 'The trust and love that he receives (as substitute parent-figure) put him in a position of great responsibility towards his 'reborn' children. More responsibility, IMO, than anyone should take on themselves. And that is karmically dangerous, not just for him, but for his adherents too.' Well, gurus have been in India for thousands of years. It's a tradition there, and the world is getting smaller. We gave the East technology and they are turning us on to more inner spiritual realities.

You say, 'If he really WAS a true benefactor of mankind, he would share those means of re-connecting with 'the source' WITHOUT any subtle demands for 'gratitude' or credit towards himself. The experience was our birthright, remember?' Well I don't think he demands gratitude or credit. No one can demand those things. You can't demand love from someone, believe me, I've tried it and it doesn't work.

You say, 'The man is not interested in humanity's advancement. If that was his priority he would have propagated the 'Knowledge' purely and simply as an act of altruism, without demanding anyone's surrender / devotion / gratitude.' Again no one can demand those things.

You say, 'The hook of devotion to his own ego and persona is what marks him out as a fake.' Well I've never been particularly devotional and I know many people who have received K and split. Remember M says 'If you like it fine, if you don't like it fine!' No hook there as far as I can see.

You say, 'Ex-premies who still practise meditation will testify that, without Mr. Rawat, the experience of 'Knowledge' is in no way diminished or diluted. Quite the opposite.' My experience has been that I've been fried many times, and a video or program has hit the spot and shaken me out of blues. I know people who have tried it alone and eventually they loose altitude and forget. They get caught up.

There is a bit of a catch 22 in this; we have to do it alone yet we can't do it by ourselves. We must be responsible sure, but IMO the spirit of the self-sufficient cowboy-pioneer is not the best way to approach spiritual life or even learning computers for that matter.

Maybe you just need to find another teacher.

Anyway, thanks for the note,

Dep

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 20:02:39 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Christopher...beliefs
Message:
Dep,

You respond to some of my points in your reply, but I think they need putting in context.

So, for the record, here's the original post, (now in the inactive index) which, for some reason, didn't get 'reproduced' in your above reply:

Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:59:40
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog-ma

Subject: ... many beliefs.

Message:

Belief systems take many forms. Of course, one of the main attractions of the 'Knowledge' (for me) was that it supposedly did not rely on ANY belief system. The experience was supposedly the be-all and end-all.

But along with that experience ('freely' given) exists a subtle but effective inducement to ensure that M is seen in a particular light. The older followers around him certainly do place him 'on a pedestal', and newer followers cannot help but be influenced by this.

Practising meditation CAN be a beneficial experience, and there are many forms of meditation out there (- or should I say in there?). The particular techniques that M reveals are not of his invention, nor does he own any kind of copyright on them. Nonetheless, he manages to allow himself to be set up as a focus for the 'gratitude' (formerly 'devotion') that successful meditators are encouraged to feel. This is the belief system or 'mind-set' that is fostered by the cult. (Yes it IS a cult, - and no more quibbling from you, Dog!)

Experiencing benefits from the meditation can easily lead to a feeling that one owes a 'debt of gratitude' to the teacher/revealer of those techniques. It's quite natural that the more benefit you gain, the more grateful you'll be inclined to feel towards the giver of that 'gift'.

It is evident from M's lifestyle that he profits from this, and I hope, Dep, that you're not so caught up in the scam as to deny that.

No-one taught us how to breathe. But suppose someone taught us how to use our breath as a source of the magic 'feel-good factor'. Just being aware of the inflow and outflow of breath as a means of centering and balancing our often troubled daily lives - it can be a powerful rudder. Worth teaching, and worth learning.

Fact is, that awareness was our natural birthright. As babies and children we were far more in touch with that feeling. As adults we lose touch. Getting back in contact with that experience feels great. But the process of regressing to that state of infantile bliss often involves a desire (or even NEED) to seek again a parent-figure whose very presence personifies the deep need for unconditional love that we experienced as babies.

This is where the danger of M's teaching is evident. The trust and love that he receives (as substitute parent-figure) put him in a position of great responsibility towards his 'reborn' children. More responsibility, IMO, than anyone should take on themselves. And that is karmically dangerous, not just for him, but for his adherents too.

Face it, Dep, if he really WAS a true benefactor of mankind, he would share those means of re-connecting with 'the source' WITHOUT any subtle demands for 'gratitude' or credit towards himself. The experience was our birthright, remember?

He had a chance to make a real difference to this world. The effort and dedication (in the DLM days) that we gave him was certainly a head-start. But what has he done with it? What would YOU do with that kind of support if you were in his situation?

The man is not interested in in humanity's advancement. If that was his priority he would have propagated the 'Knowledge' purely and simply as an act of altruism, without demanding anyone's surrender / devotion / gratitude.

The hook of devotion to his own ego and persona is what marks him out as a fake, - however beneficial the practice of meditation may be. Ex-premies who still practise meditation will testify that, without Mr Rawat, the experience of 'Knowledge' is in no way diminished or diluted. Quite the opposite.

And where would Rawi be if he hadn't insisted on taking all the credit? - A lot higher in my estimation of him, that's for sure.

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 17:41:38 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Christopher...beliefs
Message:
Mr. Dog: Are you forgetting that this is an ex-premie site? What that means is that we've heard all that before, in fact, we've SAID all that before. We all told our friends and relatives and colleagues about how 'a teacher' is so useful in the spiritual life just like when you want to learn how to play the piano you go to a piano teacher so when you want to learn the peace of mind that comes from meditation you go to a 'meditation teacher.' A 'friend.' We belonged to a 'meditation group,' not a 'religion' or 'cult.'

And meanwhile, we were going home to our little altars, bowing down before our little (or grotesquely huge) pictures of the Krishna-clad Master...something which, as Anth points out, we don't usually do to pictures of our friends.

In 1976, we stopped the foot-kissing in favor of darshan-at-a-distance (of about 5 yards, as I recall). The current Elan Vital regime reminds me of this period. I find it hard to believe that premies believe the current disinformation about the nature of the guru-disciple relationship now any more than they did then.

A guru is a guru is a guru. I'm not even anti-guru...I like gurus -- some of them make more sense to me than, say, George Bush and Al Gore. But I am anti-fraud, and if someone as mentally vacant as Maharaj Ji claims to be the Lord of the Universe, I think we can safely say there's something wrong.

I don't know for sure if you really believe that Maharaj Ji is just a 'friend,' but let me reiterate that we've heard and said it all before. We've moved on, you haven't. Preach to your friends, relatives and colleagues, not to us. It's such an unpleasant reminder of, as Barbra puts it, The Way We Were.

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 20:38:33 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Dig that synchronicity, Dog...
Message:
Gregg,

I was about to post the following (written before I read your post) as a new thread in reply to Dep, when I discovered that you had somehow pre-empted me.

Piano teacher, you say?

This is what I was about to post:

OK, Dep,

You recognise that you have indeed bought into the 'gratitude' trip that M fosters around him. You also recognise that he profits from this - and very lucratively too. (What's a Spice Girl earn? Dunno, and don't call me Ern ...)

Anyway, how about you answer me this:

HOW COME SIMPLE GRATITUDE IS'NT ENOUGH FOR M. AND WHAT SORT OF 'FRIEND' ENTICES PEOPLE TO TITHE A PERCENTAGE OF THEIR INCOME TO HIM?

OK, so it might not be an actual 'demand' that's put on premies (if that's what you're still called), but there always was, and apparently still is, considerable pressure on M's followers to actively demonstrate how much the Knowledge means to them by actively 'coming up with the readies', or at least contributing their time and effort to spreading his message - like you try to do on this website.

As for not recognising that you're hooked - well, it only goes to show how subtle the con is that you've fallen for. The crux of a 'sting' is that the 'mark' shouldn't realise that he/she's been duped until the last possible moment. By saying 'if you like it, fine; if you don't like it, fine', people could be fooled into thinking that M has covered all possible angles.

But why should liking the meditation mean that you have to like HIM as well?

I've been taught a lot of useful things down the years. Sure, Knowledge was one of them, - so was (for example) being taught how to read music and play keyboards. But I don't need to keep reminding myself that I'm grateful to my music teacher. Or my meditation teacher.

I hope you get the analogy, - and I don't see how that makes me (in your mind) a 'self-sufficient cowboy-pioneer'.

There's no Catch 22 to it. We do benefit IF we learn from our teachers. But when you've mastered your instrument (as it were), there's no point in going round saying 'Oh, I can't do it by myself...'. You go out there and jam. All by yourself. No strings attached.

Dep, in my book, freedom and independence are worth striving for.

If you were to ask my advice, I'd say this:

Watch out for the priests, teachers and gurus who have a vested interest in telling you that you've found the answer in their own method/teaching/way.

They might not realise it themselves, but they're actually hindering you from looking further, by suggesting that you've already found the answer with them.

Be strong enough to sing your own song!

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 21:24:56 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Dig that synchronicity, Dog...
Message:
So you're a pianist, Christopher? Me, too. Let me carry the metaphor a little further:

I am mostly self-taught, but, to be accurate, I learned most of what I know by playing with others and listening to the many piano greats.

So it is with the world of Spirit. If we really revel in our own humanness, we learn from everyone. We are social animals; we are 'one' in a very real way. To claim to be living a spiritual life but to really view the mass of humanity as different by virtue of not following the same master (excuse me, teacher) is disingenuous and delusional.

What kind of music do you play?

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 16:26:31 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: That old song ...
Message:

Christopher responded:
Hi there, Gregg

As far as the music goes, I’m no great shakes on the ivories, but can just about handle the intro to Babylon Sisters!

Yourself?

Anyway, re. the ‘social oneness versus spiritual elitism’ theme of your post:

I had to look up what ‘disingenuous’ meant. The dictionary (Concise Oxford) gives the meaning as: “having secret motives” and “insincere”.

I wonder if that really is name of the game? Or is it simply spiritual pride?

Certainly the old ‘one-up-man-ship’ number can be a subconscious motivation for many who consider themselves to be on the ‘spiritual path’ (whatever that is). I’m pretty damn sure it has applied to many of M’s followers - certainly in the old days of DLM it was easy to consider yourself spiritually superior to the masses - after all, your guru was claiming that he was ‘greater than God’! - so what did that make you? A very chosen little premie indeed!

Ever noticed that one of the few things that hasn’t changed from the old DLM days is that they still call it “Knowledge”? The hook still obviously works (the inference being that, without it, you’re unknowledgeable). What else, other than pride and ‘spiritual’ elitism, does that appeal to?

But I guess it’s all part of the human condition, and we’d be hypocrites if we were to make accusations against M’s followers - when we’ve been in the same boat and made the same mistakes ourselves. We should count ourselves lucky that we had the strength to re-evaluate our faith.

(musing) ... strange that pride doesn’t seem to be found in the animal kingdom - apart from in us Simians, that is. I could be wrong, though. Any zoologists out there?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 04:25:52 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: That old song ...
Message:
Christopher,

In your post to Greg you say, 'Certainly the old ‘one-up-man-ship’ number can be a subconscious motivation for many who consider themselves to be on the ‘spiritual path’ (whatever that is). I’m pretty damn sure it has applied to many of M’s followers - certainly in the old days of DLM it was easy to consider yourself spiritually superior to the masses.'

Do you think premies meditate because it makes them feel superior? You think it's all just ‘one-up-man-ship’? Maybe you're thinking about the Olympic Games. Could you ever consider the fact that premies meditate because it makes them feel good?

When we feel good, we don't need to prove ourselves better than others. We do that only when we feel bad.

What faith is that you have re-evaluate? We either feel good or we feel bad. You choose.

Dep

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 17:36:31 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: MOTIVES
Message:
You need to start reasoning and for a minute allow yourself to some questioning, please!

It's all simple BS.

His motive is to keep the BS alive, no matter what. What is he going to do if not? Recognize that he was wrong, that he is not God? He is a very disturbed person, as his followers are. Don't think, remember the holy name. Mind is evil. COMMMMMMOOOONNNNN....

Reasoning is good. God did not make a mistake giving us thoughts. Why supress thoughts? Read between the lines in his speeches, satsangs, or whatever he wish to call it today. He changes and is not a lila. He changes to accomodate all, to make it look sane. Talking about shifting...He shift every once and then, just to make his BS fit, that is all. Wake up premie ji.

Your sister, infront of the real God, our Creador.

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 03:07:26 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: MOTIVES
Message:
Dear sister Shifting,

You say Maharaji says, 'Mind is evil.' I don't recall ever hearing him say that.

You say, 'Reasoning is good. God did not make a mistake giving us thoughts. Why supress thoughts?' And I agree. We need to be able to think in this highly competitive urbanized world. As my buddy Ram Dass says though, 'The mind is a perfect servant but a lousy master.'

As M says, 'We need to think, but not all the time.' It's nice to be able to put the breaks on now and zen. I love reading books on Buddhism, computers etc.

I came before mind and like to occasionally transcend my mental conditioning. You definitely need use your mind to stay alive. You've just got to train that puppy.

Dep

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 04:46:20 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: your motives
Message:
So beautiful!! You are such a devotee. If you enjoy belonging to a cult....By the way: Are you going to kiss his lotus feet in next Amaroo? Get a life. Better, get it back.
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 22:29:47 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: your motives
Message:

Deputy Dog responded:
Shifting,

Not in a cult, don't kiss anyone's feet, have a life. Meditation helped me get it back. Thanks for your concern

Dep

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Date: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 15:48:28 (GMT)
From: christopher
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: complete trust and confidence
Message:
What faith???? ¦•Þ

How about the faith that Rawat doesn’t have an ulterior motive in getting you to eat from his house of candy (a la Hansel & Gretel?)

Wait for it ... wait for it ....

“Why on earth should he have an ulterior motive?”

Ask yourself.

Faith: “complete trust or confidence” (Concise Oxford Dictionary)

Q.E.D.

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 13:06:12 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Self Deception
Message:
Dog,

You're suffering from classic premie self-deception.

You don't see Maharaji as your 'friend' at all.

Would you line up and kiss your friend's feet?

Does he even know your name?

Stop kidding yourself Dog. You see him as the Perfect Master.

Anth the Lets Call a Cult a Cult

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 04:28:48 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: When....
Message:
When did you receive knowledge?
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 01:11:00 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: green tea
Message:
I'm sure you remember all that talk of 'being in your mind'. How that screwed me up!
Fortunately, the damage has been repaired. I have come to realize that all parts of me are just OK. There is an interesting perspective on mind in the buddhist tradition. Try this link: http://metalab.unc.edu/zen/
it shows a taste of a much older knowledge than maharaji.
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 04:05:18 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: green tea
Message:
michael,

Please don't go posting this kind of stuff here (http://metalab.unc.edu/zen/), you'll have all the exes going into a rage!!!!

Dep

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:09:07 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: green tea
Message:
this is good too

http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/umbada/index.html

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 03:26:35 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: green tea
Message:
michael,

Check this out 'tricycle.com'. The magazine tricycle the Buddhist Review is also excellent.

Dep

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 05:53:09 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Who????
Message:
Who would be wrong if your life began to work?
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 01:37:00 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: what green tea?
Message:
For how long have you been an ex? How long it took you to 'get better'? Today I am having a hard time. I feel so down, and stupid. How did I let it happen? I heard in the forums that is normal to feel this way, but I cannot help to dislike it. No, what I feel is not hate. It's sorrow, because I trusted him, and he's the biggest illussion of all... Someday I will have the guts to spill the beans and write my journal, then, you'll understand more why I feel so down today. [p]

I need to forgive myself... I am not there yet... :_([p]

What green tea, by the way?

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 03:16:28 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: bad day
Message:
Dear Shifting,
I am sorry you are having a bad day. I hope you continue to process all this stuff and get stronger in your exness. I am glad you are here.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 03:53:31 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: thanks
Message:
Thanks Robin. It's hard yet to erase negative thoughts... They are fresh and cicking. :)
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 02:19:47 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: what green tea?
Message:
I walked away from it more than 20 years ago. But, I found that he has had more of an influence on my life than I realized or wanted. When I finally post my journal, you will see.

You, dear Shifting, were had. Just like the rest of us. We went to him with open hearts. Like children we were ready to trust. After all, wasn't the message of knowledge and maharaji just what we wanted to hear. It was for me at the time. 'Lord of the Universe' and 'Guru is Greater than God', yep, I too swallowed it up like candy.

Miragi, that should have been his name. Like sojourners lost in the desert always seeing water just ahead, we blindly followed after him. We expected the saviour to come to us. And we belived that he had. After all, in the 70's, maharaji was a child, no he was THE CHILD with the ANSWER. Our Judeo-Christian background in the West had well prepared us to believe that the messia would come. Most religions have some sort of a messia mythos.

It may not help you to feel a whole lot better to know that there have been and still are many cults claiming to have THE ANSWER to THE QUESTION. And those cults are being just as misleading and destructive as maharaji's was/is. So, you are not alone. Somewhere on this site is a link to a guru rating service. Explore and you will find it. When you do you will see that maharaji is small change compared to some. Heck, some dead gurus are rated higher!

Let this forum and website help you. Call god a jerkwad, if that helps. Get drunk - with friends. Spend a weekend at the coast. Go to Disneyland. JUST DON'T BEAT YOURSELF UP ABOUT IT!

Prem Pal is a con artist. You were a victim. You will survive. More, you will learn to laugh again and to love again and to trust again.

Peace -

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 04:03:07 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: green
Message:
Thanks so much for your words. I can see that it will be the same for me' Carved in my very soul...for how long?... Carrying his lies in my subconscient mind... But, I would do as much as I can, everyday, to come here to confront his lies, and heal. I am strong. I should win, not the lies in my head.
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 01:46:47 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: what green tea?
Message:
You could probably tell us a little about yourself without spilling your guts. I think Michael is an oldtimer. I've been out nearly 20 years, myself so a lot of the emotive stuff is long gone. This doesn't mean there aren't ways that M still effects me, but my acceptance for what I've been through is complete.

Whatup, Shifting?

Oh yeah, green tea is really good for you. Probably one of the main reasons why some cancers are lower in Japan than in the US.

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 04:24:03 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: spill the beans
Message:
Runa,

What happen is that what I would like to say here will allow others to know who I am. All premies in this area come ocassionally and read the forum. One of them is my ex-husband. There are matters that need resolution before I can post freely.[p]

I received knowledge in 1975. As a premie I believed the whole package. As a Christian I was then, I was waiting for the Lord to come. What did I get? Lost big time. [p]

I haven't appologised to my family yet. They don't know I quit. It's so embarrasing and painful. You wont belive what I have done to them...[p]

I need to remember that it's going to pass someday, but when I am in it is too much... My screwed up head is what I find difficult to reason with these days. I NEED DEPROGRAMMING...tHANKS

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 16:53:01 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: I've been through this too
Message:
and I know it's hard.

You'll definitely lose many of you so-called 'premies' friends, that's very likely. You have to be ready for this.

But I can tell you that your family and relatives (except for the premies) will be glad to hear the good news, even though it's very embarrassing to explain and justify what happened during all these years. You've been involved in a cult, people are aware of their existence, and they are usually very much interested in knowing the details. It's embarrassing to tell, but you'll be understood I suppose.

All the fairy tales about Mishler etc is pure BS. The paranoia you'll experience is due to your past involvement in a cult, it's the same phenomenon that happens for most persons who've been involved in cults. And this will also pass.

Spilling the beans will be a most liberating experience. I did. I've been an instructor, ashram premie, working in DLM's office for years, member of EV's board in France, I've said almost everything I knew of I guess, and that's been a huge relief.

Rawat has NO power at all, except the one that you give him when you surrender to him. Take it back, it's all yours. He's nothing but a thief, in every sense of the word.

I don't like him, and I never will. And I'm glad and honored to be considered one of his 'enemies'!!

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 19:16:19 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: i don't like him either
Message:
I never believed the crap about m's power to harm people. I honest truly don't. I said it for premies who come here can read it, especially the new premies.[p]

Thanks for your advice!

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 04:33:03 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: hurting families
Message:
Dear Shifting,
You are not the only one who hurt your family for the 'lord'. I wish you could know some of the stories I read here over the 2 years I've been reading here. A lot of them turned out well, some not so well, family members died and no resolution possible. I hope you family welcomes you cult free, with open arms.
Take care.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 12:06:00 (GMT)
From: Des Perado
Email: None
To: Recent ex's
Subject: hurting families
Message:
I am going to give my siblings details of this site and, of course, tell them the name I am at present using here.
I'm going to have a big brother again.

Thanks F5.

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 12:32:59 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Des Perado
Subject: that is great Des. :) (nt)
Message:
agwa
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 05:07:37 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: hurting families-Thanks
Message:
I need to hear that... a lot. Do you know what the mahatma told me when I received K? That if I did not practice knowledge I was going to go crazy. So, I remebered that over the years and believed it to be true... Plus the stories about premies who left him and what happened to them! Some premies say that Mishler died because he exposed what he wanted to expose: His bad karma killed him. His photographer apparently died with all his family in an accident also, after leaving the cult, and so many more...Fears...[p]

I do know that eventually I'll be okay.

Thanks Robin,

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 05:29:38 (GMT)
From: Michael (the other one)
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: hurting families-Thanks
Message:
Many of us hurt our families and abandoned friends when we decided to follow M. It is embarrassing to have to come back to one's family and say 'I was wrong,' but embarrassment passes. What is important is to try to rebuild that relationship with your family. I left over twenty years ago and I am still embarrassed about the whole thing, but most people will forgive you and welcome you back when they see you are sincere.

The Mahatmas were working for M and they lied to you about many things; it is a fact of life. I don't believe in karma, but I believe in community and in relationships and it is my experience that we need community more than we need M and his scam. You are going to have good days and bad days, but don't give that little fraud any power over your future.

Have you considered the Recent Exes Forum? There is a thread below with a link if you are interested. I think that it would be good for you to get in touch with the folks there.

It is painful, but it will pass.
Michael

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 19:21:17 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Michael (the other one)
Subject: Where is the link for recent e
Message:
Where exactly is the link to recent exes?

Thanks,

Shifting

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 19:57:33 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: Where is the link for recent e
Message:
Hi Shifting,
The link is several threads down the list and the Thread is
RE Administrator Recent Exes Forum.
I'm not clever enough to know how to put the link in this message, but just look towards the end of the list.
Good Luck!
Michael
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 00:06:22 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: stop please
Message:
Posted this on AG:

OK I DO need a break and am taking one.
but if one of you 'clever little hackers' is the one who just
did me again.
I will seek legal help.
I have the trail. I'm not dumb. I know about whois and finger and lots more utilities.
and my sys programmers really like me, and they are better than me
and have sendmail down pat.
So stop itl Now. This is a gentle warning. As gentle as I get.

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 00:12:38 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: selene
Subject: stop please
Message:
Bye Selene, e-mail me.
Sorry you are being bothered.

By the way:
I tried to post a response to Chris below and it doesn't show up! Do you know why? Was it edited out or censored?

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 01:50:50 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: stop please
Message:
Carol, this forum is designed to allow you to preview your posting before you make it permanent. There is a little box that you can check by clicking which will post it on the first submit.

If you look it over more carefully you will see what I mean. A lot of us posted a lot on Forum 3 which had the same setup.

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 00:19:56 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: stop please
Message:
I will email you. But right now I have to fix my system yet again.
the UNIX sendmail utility is so messy it has manuals written for just that one program.
But..
I thought if someone here was messin with me I'd just post that.
Take care. I'll be in touch whenever I can get off these
damned machines. Oh that doesn't make sense does it?
oh to be an end user. my new goal in life.
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 01:36:28 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: stop please
Message:
Look at smail, it is a lot easiar than sendmail, and is less prone to security holes.
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 01:50:05 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: stop please
Message:
thanks. I'll ask my sys programmers about smail.. Thank whatever
I have a real life reality check on all this nonsence.
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 16:05:25 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: selene
Subject: stop please
Message:
If the are breaking in or attempting to break in or misuing mail for mailicious purposes file an incident report with ww.cert.org (CERT/CC). Be prepared to bring charges, if not already sync your machine with a timeserver. Computer 'mischief' may be criminal, you don't let thieves in your house don't let anyone missuse the net to threaten you. At the very least get you mail logs and report the act to thier provider, they may close the account. Be proactive, be secure, prosecute.
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 16:46:29 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: stop please
Message:
I will report it if pushed.
And we have records and trails as I said.
I know abuut CERT and thank you, really.
I just thought I'd be out of character and give fair warning first.
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 18:09:07 (GMT)
From: Des Perado
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: please stop
Message:
Go fishin'

Love, Des

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 20:11:52 (GMT)
From: Des under house arrest
Email: None
To: Des Perado
Subject: i'M COMING DOWN WITH SOMETHING
Message:
My Sabbatical was prescribed to last to Monday but here I am again! What should I do? All I want to do today is meet my Case Manager at Ceasers and flirt with his wife Cleopatra during the running of the races in Orstralia.

Des

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 21:51:19 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: Joger02@aol.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Email to Maharaji
Message:
Today I sent the following email to Maharaji, over on the vacuous and misleading website of his as follows:

Dear Maharaji:

I notice that on your website you say the following in connection to receiving knowledge:

If you like what is given, practice it. If not, leave it. This statement, to me, is simple, yet profound and has been echoed since the time of my father.

I find the above statement extremely contradictory to other statements I have heard you make, especially since you claim that the statement has been a consistent one in relation to knowledge, since the time of your father.

For example, in August, 1978, I heard you make the following statement at a program in Philadelphia:

Guru Maharaj Ji has not only promised us, but given us more than he has promised. Always. Always. And as that battle begins, things get even more intense. And if that faith is not there, if that faith is not completely in Guru Maharaj Ji, you're going to fall in so many fragments that you wouldn't be able to count them yourself.

Also, on another occasion, I heard you say the following:

And that's the way knowledge is...it's like you got the vegetables of the whole universe with you. And if you don't meditate, can you imagine how it's going to rot?...If you don't practice this knowledge, you will get rotten inside. There is so much energy contained in this knowledge, just imagine how much harm it will be able to do you if you know it, but don't use it properly?

I don't see how you can reconcile saying that you can just try knowledge and leave it if you want to, and then make statements about 'splitting into fragments' and 'rotting inside' if you don't have faith in you and/or don't practice knowledge. I believe it is deceitful for you to make such a statement on your website, in light of these other, clearly contradictory, statements you have made. When I heard those earlier statements, I, unfortunately, believed you. Now that you are saying something entirely different and contradictory, why should anyone belive you now?

I would appreciate a response to this question, however, I don't count on it, since I have sent you sincere letters in the past asking questions and you have never bothered to respond. I guess I shouldn't expect you to start having integrity at this late date in your life, but maybe you will surprise me.

Joe Whalen
San Francisco

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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 19:41:00 (GMT)
From: I Nominate....
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Roger, **BEST**?
Message:
Best
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 00:02:07 (GMT)
From: Carol
Email: rbruce@teleport.com
To: JW
Subject: Way to go Joe!Me too will do
Message:
You did what I recently thought about doing. This is part of what I was thinking:

Dear Maharaji,

I hope you have a sense of humor about this, because I really don't mean to be an offensive person,(and I don't want to call down the wrath of God upon myself or my loved ones), but I'll take the risk!

I read somewhere (here on the Forum) that you have a golden tiolet seat in your home. Did you know that a well known slang word for a toilet seat is 'the throne'? Your premies put you on the throne both in your house and in their hearts and minds.

Do you really deserve that position? Or do you accept it because you know no other way to see yourself? I understand how this could happen, because you were born into and embraced the beliefs of your father and his devotees and your devotees. How could you do otherwise given that environment and genetics?

Many of your previous devotees gave everything they knew how to give to try to see you enthroned as the Lord of Lords, Bringer of Peace. We believed you when you said (at my first program in Montrose Colorado in 1972) that 'Time is coming soon when everyone will know who is God! Not just know God exists..' Did I get that memory right? Were you implying that you had something to do with that happening!

We sure heard it that way! In many other talks you gave the same message. You spoke of 'Guru Maharaji'as if that meant GOD, and encouraged our worship of you! It was wonderful while it lasted to feel so much love for you. I would not have followed you unless I thought you were 'The One'.

I know now we all are one, we are all 'the one'. We thought your appearance in the world, equal to the 'second coming' of Christ. And, we thought we had gotten in on something great ahead of the rest of humanity! I now believe that the 'second coming' will be when we all recognize our divinity and our creativity, and infuse our acts with love and compassion.

I believe now that it doesn't take a private club or practice or initiation for this to happen! It just takes each of us knowing it and knowing we are part of the problem and the solution. (What is your part of the problem of disunity among your premies and your family? How can you save yourself or anyone else if you don't look at and embrace the conflict, with the goal in mind and heart of a greater good?

I have not wanted or chosen to believe, as many other of your ex-premies do, that you are truely a scam artist milking the blind sheep for all you can get out of them. But if that is true, you will probably have to become accountable some day!

I don't really expect that this will make it through the levels of bureaucracy to actually be read by you, but if it does...I have hope that you can take responsibilty in a public way for the illusions you have nurtured and accomodated that 'you are the Superior Power in Person: Mother,Father, Lover,Friend. Your actions speak louder than the words of a devotional song we once memorized.

If I am wrong and you are a superior power, then I shake my fist at you and say it doesn't have to be this way, but I also gratefully acknowledge that my involvement with you was a contributing facture to my ability to open my heart, and I still have pangs of love for those whom I once loved with all my heart.

We believed you, that peace would come in this life and we would all know God throughout the world! I guess, like everything, that statement that you made is open to interpretation. The goal of world peace and inner peace is what we dedicated our lives to in our service to you, in whatever capacity we could. Are you still working on goal and peace for the world? i am. And I have more inner peace than ever before since I stopped 'practicing knowledge' as you taught it!

I am afraid you have not made much apparent progress toward the goal of World Peace. I think you can't really do it alone. There are many other people right now who are dedicating their lives to finding the common ground in all religions and in all philosophies, to that end. You would do better, I think, to combine you efforts with those of the Dalai Lama and other world religios leaders and redirect your devotees to more positive actions with more reliable results than they have gotten from seating you on a golden throne!

Another word for toilet is 'pot' and a well known phrase meaning 'do it or get out of the way' Is (to speak politely) 'Deficate or get off the pot!' No offense!

from Carol, one who loves, and is a lover, but is not a premie by the definition which is held common in your organization.

JW:
You can send it to him for me if you want. Or send me the address!
Carol

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 00:24:09 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Great Carol
Message:
Carol,

Great email. Please send it. Go on over to Maharaji's website, www.maharaji.org and click onto the email section. You can send an email there. Of course, you have to agree to the legal mumbo jumbo at the beginning of the site, but that's no big deal. Maharaji is just a money-grubbing charlatan who wants to make sure he makes money off his website if there is any to be made. That's why he has that there. But the fact that it IS there, says a lot about him and his supposed 'love,' don't you think?

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 22:59:40 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Email to Maharaji
Message:
Yeah! Why so contradictory captain rawato?
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 03:55:54 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Email to Maharaji
Message:
JW-congratulations on your concise and on-the-mark e-mail to m.
I remember you from DC and Miami and had a lot of respect for you back then, as I could sense that you had a mind of your own and you sensed a lot of the bs back then, even though you were caught up in the belly of the beast, so to speak.
I think more of us should e-mail m and, as you just did,confront him with his own words and hypocrisies and challenge him to come out and defend himself. Of course, I don't think he ever will, but who knows...strange things happen in this world...maybe he senses how caught up he is in his own mythology and would say something one day.
You did it in a straight forward and intelligent way, and I would love to see some premie or instructor or m himself squirm out of the explanation of his words and deeds... There are literally hundreds of such examples to choose from...
Keep up the good work..one day I'll contact you when I'm in the bay area...
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 18:13:19 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Thanks to la-ex
Message:
Thanks for saying that. I recall being somewhat happy in DC, and liking the people there. I recall being miserable almost the entire time I was a premie in Miami. I really hated it there, but I felt it was my duty to surrender to what Maharaji was doing in controlling my life. Isn't it amazing that many of us believed things like that?

Thanks for saying that maybe you perceived me as something other than a total jerk as a DLM honcho. I have some residual guilt from that period, when I was in my cult-role, because of some of the insensitive things I may have laid on people, in the name of serving the lord of the universe.

I would recommend everyone sending an email to Maharaji and telling him how you feel. Maybe not for the purpose of getting him to change or respond. I think he is way too out of touch with his own humanity to do that, but it really is a method of further breaking the mythical fear that can still exist somewhere back in an ex-premies' psyche.

Thanks again, La-ex. I'd really like to meet you sometime.

Joe (JW)

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 04:25:45 (GMT)
From: Ex-Lax Premie
Email: longgone@longdong.com
To: la-ex
Subject: Email to Maharaji
Message:
Well, I suppose I could get off my ass and do just that, email Gooberaji but what the hey, let bygones be bygones, right? No it sounds like too much effort for too little return.

See, back in early '74 people considered me a lax premie. So I joined the ashram and became an ex-lax premie.

So I guess I should really call myself ex-ex-lax premie...right ?

And I just thought of this: If there was a city called LAX after the airport there in LA, like we have 'Sea-Tac' the city and the airport you could legitimately call yourself 'Ex-Lax Premie, but I'm not there, yet.

Makes sence (hic) (TM) to me.

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 21:04:16 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: 'Ex' ex-Lax Premie
Subject: Email to Maharaji
Message:
Too little return? Hmmmm, ...

So, what would you really like to see happen?

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 20:21:08 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Joe, yer not gonna believe thi
Message:
See, the damn 'subject' box IS too short. Anyway, when Goober's site (the main flag ship HRH Gooberaji.com) first came out (TM) (and here's the unbelieveable part) I wrote a very nasty and profane email to his Highness and doh, I didn't get any reply, so there's no hope on this end.
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 12:10:57 (GMT)
From: Des Perado
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: It's Not What You Say,
Message:
it's how you say it dumby.

Respectfully, Des

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 21:29:59 (GMT)
From: Carol
Email: rbruce@teleport,com
To: Everyone
Subject: Last message til April 1st
Message:
Most of the time I am contented and very grateful to be alive.

Beware: this a positive message with a wish and hope from me that it will mean something to you in your life. I also challenge you...so get out your pistols:

Please see my ATTENTION note down the page(I don't know how to cut and paste on here) and you don't have to read my message if you don't want to! This Forum is great isn't it! Such freedom of expression!

I held a birthday party for myself and some of my friends and their families yesterday. Also present were my parents, husband, 4 sons,and my nephew and his wife and child. It was fun and it is amazing how it turned that I had 49 lives in the house counting myself on my 49th birthday! Coincidence perhaps but I am appreciative of it! I invited many more people, but we ended up having: 27 adults from ages 24 to 85, 12 children, from ages 8 months to 21 years, and the pets that were in the house confined near the guests (or who dared to be there) counted to 3 birds, 2 cats, 3 mice,and 2 fish for a grand total of 49 which is how old I am! There was a reconnection of many friends with eachother, including three old 'ex-premies' and myself who have set an intention to refuse to see people anymore from the eyes of dualistic judgment: like whether someone or something is good or bad because it pleases me or doesn't please me, believes the way I do or doesn't believe, and whether you are premie or non-premie. It is a challege to think that way, but worth the effort.

Some of you are probably too freshly aware and reactive to information you may have recently discovered about Maharaji to give my ideas, my positive messages, much consideration right now. So, I hope it can be stored in your mind and visited later. Others of you think it's great to have an enemy and choose to stew in the juices of your discontent and anger and encourage others to jump in the put with you. And the more spice gets added the better! You know, the juicy stories of misbehavior and corruption, you love so much! You don't realize you are slowwwly cooking the life out of yourselves by your choice. Wise up and get of the pot. Find something that gives you life and joy!
Have you heard that EVIL is LIVE spelled backwards? Don't live your life backwards!

I am singing (typo, but maybe appropriate!) off here now for probably several months, because I have other priorities and this robs me of my time for them. If anybody wants me back at some time for a discussion you think I mike like, e-mail me. Or do private e-mail to me and I will respond as best as I am able at the time.

ATTENTION ALL:
If this kind of communicating is not on task for this Forum, then let me know...because I don't need to be here, but I would like to share what I have enjoyed in my life by changing my own perspective and thinking and by opening myself up to always try to find what LOVE would do in life situations and conflicts and to follow it through, despite the remnants of fear and anger that still rise out of me.

To continue:
My nephew is my brother's son and his baby is now 1 1/2 years old.My parents met their only great grandchild for the first time! I surprised them all. My mother has been out of touch with my brother for many years (having to do with my brother's actions toward me in 1972, and has not seen her grandson since 1989 when we went to a memorial service for his sister, her grandaughter, who died at age 24. I am also encouraging my brother, by my occasional phone calls, to reconnect with eachother. (I just got both of their e-mail addresses, so I have a new avenue to their hearts, I hope.)They have not seen eachother for 21 years when my nephew was 16 and before that it had been when he was a 3 year old. I also tell my brother how much it would mean for him to call my mother. But he has not done this yet. More work to do to build a bridge.......

Everyone is my teacher. And Nobody is my teacher (Please view the movie/video called DEAD MAN with Johny Dep, if you want to meet nobody!!!)

My own life experiences present me with many lessons as do yours. I store some unwillingly, automatically, reflexively. Others I choose to recall and to reinterpret their meaning to me.

As I make it a habit to try to find some meaning for the greater good in whatever life throws me, ('Good or Bad'); and I do not give harbor to negative thoughts, it becomes more habitual to respond to a situation from a calmer and clearer state of mind,

or (says Carol the Clever):

easier to switch tracks when I jump on the one taking me to Judgment Junction where I gather my companions, the Pissed-off Posse who are raving and ready to rally and ride for REVENGE!!!

You do what you like with your experiences and wounds, they are yours to interpret. You may re-act, rehearse, re-live or can you can respond responsibly in the present moment. I wish you all a full life!

Carol
(I was named after the songs sung at Christmas Time when my mother was ripe with me in her womb)

A quote I like very much from the Tao Te Ching:

The supreme good is like water,
which nourishes all things without trying to.
It is content with the low places that people disdain.
Thus it is like the Tao.

In dwelling, live close to the ground.
In thinking, keep it simple.
In conflict, be fair and generous.
In governing, don't try to control.
In work, do what you enjoy.
In family life, be completely present.
When you are content to be simply yourself,
And don't compare or compete,
Everybody will respect you.

Tao Te Ching,Translated by Stephen Mitchell

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 19:15:43 (GMT)
From: bb-I like you Carol but
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: The tao is crapola.
Message:
A few correct sentences dont make up for all the wrong ones.
The guy was guessing and he is wrong in many ways.
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 06:45:45 (GMT)
From: Des Perado
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Don't go yet!
Message:
I just answered your message in your 'Please publish my Journey/here' thread. Was I to late?

Des

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 08:15:17 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: Des Perado
Subject: Don't go yet!
Message:
I'm up late again...just after midnight, but it is still the end of my last day (for awhile.) I'm reading some posts for a few minutes. You could always e-mail me if you just have to give me words of wisdom!
carol
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 22:13:50 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Last message til April 1st
Message:
Beware: this a positive message with a wish and hope from me that it will mean something to you in your life.

Thank you, Carol. You really do have so much wondrous expression to share. It doesn't just mean something to me, it means something to me 'in my life'.

It was fun and it is amazing how it turned that I had 49 lives in the house counting myself on my 49th birthday! Coincidence perhaps but I am appreciative of it! I invited many more people, but we ended up having: 27 adults from ages 24 to 85, 12 children, from ages 8 months to 21 years, and the pets that were in the house confined near the guests (or who dared to be there) counted to 3 birds, 2 cats, 3 mice,and 2 fish for a grand total of 49 which is how old I am!

Carol, what in Lord's name could all this mean? Does it mean you're in synch? I mean, at my birthday party nothing added up to anything. Am I doing something wrong?

There was a reconnection of many friends with eachother, including three old 'ex-premies' and myself who have set an intention to refuse to see people anymore from the eyes of dualistic judgment:

So what's the difference between 'setting an intention' and just deciding to try or do something? Is it like using big words?

If this kind of communicating is not on task for this Forum, then let me know...because I don't need to be here, but I would like to share what I have enjoyed in my life by changing my own perspective and thinking and by opening myself up to always try to find what LOVE would do in life situations and conflicts and to follow it through, despite the remnants of fear and anger that still rise out of me.

So you really have so much to give, if you don't say so yourself?

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 22:38:16 (GMT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Just now ..
Message:
finished my response to you in a previous thread, hope you open enough to give it a look! Bye Bye
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 23:01:27 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Just now ..
Message:
Dear Carol,
I just tried to email you and it won't go, could you check the email you posted when you started this thread or just post it again. Thanks.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 23:17:08 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Just now ..
Message:
She put a comma instead of a dot. Otherwise that is a good address. I got something from her today, so I know.

I was at the party, whee!

Hey, Powerman, visualize whirled peas.

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 00:28:58 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: rbruce@teleport.com
To: michael
Subject: Whirled Peas?
Message:
What do you mean,Michael? Are you referring the the story I told about canned peas? Jeff opened some ones by accident for his daughter that I had bought yesterday to use as an added way to say I'm sorry to my parents' caregivers. They thought I had insulted their family by saying to them by e-mail, when I was trying to explain how I'd like to improve my parents' diet, 'Canned peas are only eaten by the poorest of families' and frozen or fresh were much better!'

I did not know they loved canned peas! I meant no offense. I was ignorant of their perspective and made a judgmental statement that caused misunderstanding and injury. I cried and apologized for the insult when I went to get my parents for the party! It was a gift to me to learn to be more careful about what I say that may unwittingly cause harm. I will remember the consequences of making judgmental good/bad types of statements. I am thankful for the lesson. I really love the young woman and her family who have been taking good care of my folks since September. I hugged her and apologized and cried and said 'It's my party and I'll cry if I want to!!!'
carol

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 02:46:25 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: carol
Subject: Whirled Peas=World Peace nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 23:42:03 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: Exactly, whirled peas (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 23:37:47 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: Just now ..
Message:
Dear Michael,
Thanks, duh. I fixed it. :) I figured you were at her party.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 23:42:33 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: mareadba@yahoo.com
To: Robyn
Subject: ur wlcm {:-) nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 22:55:39 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Just now ..
Message:
I just read your response and all I can say is you really take the cake. Is it possible for a person to be any more full of themself?
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 08:18:18 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: What are you full of? nt Bye
Message:
blank
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 20:41:06 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: Great 'Journey', Carol!
Message:
Many thanks, Carol, and I'm sure I won't be alone in saying this - but I really appreciate what you have to say.

[Follow the yellow brick road this way ...]

You say of M. '...I just don't understand why he continues to seem to want folks to look to him for the answer!'

Believe it or not, I posted this reply to Deputy Dog just a few minutes before discovering your journey. Synchronous or what?!

Have a great future.

Best wishes,

Chris

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:42:31 (GMT)
From: me
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I wont talk to you:
Message:
Can we reproduce anything from his site and bring it here, but saying where it came from?

If you send a message to him, it says he will not respond directly. BUT I WANT YOUR MONEY!!!!

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:30:29 (GMT)
From: video-dude
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hey brother, can you spare$30?
Message:
Can you spare $30? I need to get my latest fix, this sunday-$30.00 to get the latest sad-song from the mazzuh.
Has anyone heard more about this ground-breaking event? I have heard hamster-ji is low on funds and is charging $30 for this one, and may provide new direction on the video/correspondence course approach to knowledge.
Maybe he'll follow the AOL/TimeWarner lead, and announce a merger between visions and elan vital, in order to get a jump in donations from the stockholders...
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:58:34 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: video-dude
Subject: Hey brother, can you spare$30?
Message:
You don't HAVE TO PAY, 'they' tell you. They just tell you the amount they want from you. Sooner or later you put your hand in your pocket and pay, out of guilt around other premies?.[p]

I wonder if it's possible to find out the costs 'they' have, as oppossed to what people are asked to pay. Yes, next sunday will be $30.00. Good bussiness. You see? In the past people had to wait until the video came out. Videos can be $15 and above. Smart. Direct= $30.00. Where else can you be on a Sunday...wasting your time someplace else? Is better to waste your money. Go and hear the same, again and again. Be charged over and over to hear the same. Different day. Same mambo. They make more money that way. ALIVE!! YOU WILL HEAR HIM DIRECTLY... OH MY GOD!!! Where is it going from here?

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:24:28 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Everyone, especially prem
Subject: Deception
Message:
Reading old posts I came across one, I don't remember who posted it, where a ex-premie talks about his experience living in the ashram: This person couldn't attend funerals of family memebers, family wedings, etc. Aha! You see? I did not live in an ashram, but boy! I can relate to the family matters. Did I bother my poor family, by being a follower of Maharaji? Torture is more like it.[p]

Who is going to be responsible for the damage Maharaji's concepts brought into people's lives? I hear a noice of hand washing... Who is in the bathroom??? It's MY fault, of couse. i didn't practice knowledge properly.(sarcasm) I am very angry that the deception, the delussion, over the years did not allow me to question anything....Maharaji got away with all I went through all the years, because I allowed him to deceive me? Yeap... But, if God is at your door, how can you question at all...I believed him. Is he responsible for what I lost along the 'Journey'? or not? YES, HE IS RESPONSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Because as an ex premie said somewhere here, we still haven't heard Maharaji retract himself from the statements of the past. He will never do that! He still gives darshan (premies line up to kiss his feet) in Australia and India. Also, directly and indirectly he says and implies in hundreads of videos who he thinks he is. He is the savior... Nothing has change but the package.[p]

He was young when bringing knowledge to the West: This is an excuse premies have today to justify his past behavior. Nothing has changed premies!!! Just the package. IT JUST THE SAME. MASTER, SERVANT. Oh, how I wish I did not turned the PC off when I came here at the first time, 1997... Few weeks a go curiosity brought me to this forum again (to see what you guys were talking about), and having some time in my hands I began to read, and read, and read. Yes, THERE IS ANOTHER SIDE: OUT! CULT WRITTEN ALL OVER!!!![p]

He is responsible: He offered his knowledge and said he was God's incarnated in many ways. I have proof of this, like many of you exes. Old videos, old magazines... And also it's true: For old premies he's still God. Not that he can put you in touched with God, but he is God.[p] I had trouble with this concept all along. GOD?

I am so glad now to know that is nothing wrong with me, for having had doubts all the years I was involved with the cult. Something 'in my heart' was telling me...run, and I was deaf. OOPS. My mistake... Sorry. I don't buy that. I too, like many of you exes think that he's responsible for screwing up my head with his eastern mambo. The abuse have been justified in many ways, but nevertheless, it was abuse.[p]

I just got a call from a premie to invite me to a satellite dish event for fundS raising, this coming sunday. FUNDS RAISING? OH BOY!!! I have papers somewhere where it says that EVital deficit is enormous. I wonder why? 'They' want to give everything to the lord... With or without him knowing? I just wonder.[P]

The devotees.... Look at this: Not too long a go David Smoth came around where I live and talked about participating (doing service for the master). He said that any participation was welcome. He put himself as an example of that, by saying, that he was happy one time, just to stand there, holding something for maharaji who was fixing a motorcicle, and how he did not say a word in the 30 minutes he stood there. How remarkable experience. He is such a devotee.. If you put him (M) up in a pedestal, that is. Standing there without saying a word makes you an...idiot maybe? Not a word. eh? WHOW!! Drunk in delussion... Yes. The power of the mind, of beliefs, is very amazing. As much as the cult wants to deny it is what you have come to believe. THAT IS THE END OF THE ARGUMENT. You bought the story. Nevertheless folks, He is the one who 'seduce you' into believing, loud an clear, which makes him responsible #1.

Shifting

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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 02:47:36 (GMT)
From: Another irresponsible
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: child wanting an easy way out
Message:
of decisions they themself have made. Scapegoats are such a convenient stress reliever, don't you think?
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Date: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 18:18:29 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Another irresponsible
Subject: child wanting an easy way out
Message:
and you are one of those people who say that the South Americans kids who live on the street are there by their own decisions!!!!!

No wonder you won't sign your own post.

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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 03:50:43 (GMT)
From: Shifting
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: child wanting an easy way out
Message:
Don't you know by now that you shouldn't judge what you cannot understand? You shouldnt talk about my experience of living the cult. You do not know the details of my 'jouney'. If you stick around, i will write mine soon. You are not in my side, I hope some day you will though...
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 06:21:59 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: child wanting an easy way out
Message:
I think your reply was meant for the person (ie the coward with no name) who 'answered' your message.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 06:44:50 (GMT)
From: Shifting to Jethro
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: I was wrong
Message:
oops! Sorry. Thanks for your support.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 01:55:49 (GMT)
From: Difference is...
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: they didn't choose to be there
Message:
Why do you guys have such a hard time being accountable for your own decisions in life? You can only take the naive innocence of youth so far before you cross the line into the world of scape-goating.
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Date: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 06:15:56 (GMT)
From: We didn't know.....
Email: None
To: Difference is we believed
Subject: and trusted him to his word
Message:
It was quite to a shock to find out that he is a paedophille protector, a thief, and a shitter on golden toilets while many of his devotees are on the bread line.
It was also quite a shock to find oneself out on the street after he broke a lifetime agreement.

I suppose you are also a supporter of General Pinochette!

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:43:57 (GMT)
From: recent ex
Email: None
To: Shifting
Subject: Deception
Message:
Hey shifting-
Just read your post on deception-
I would encourage you to keep on posting, as it helped me a lot to read and write down my thoughts and feelings as I began the recent journey away from the cult, after 28 years in the trenches.
As I began this process, which still goes on, I began to feel more and more liberated, as well as angry.
This forum was and still is extremely helpful, as I sort out the hows and whys of my involvement with m, and why I went so long believing his bullshit, which he now denies ever saying.
I can honestly say that this process was very helpful and wish more premies would have the honesty to confront these deceptions and force m to level with us. This forum helped me, and I would encourage you to continue on your journey, and mention this site to others as well.
Good luck, and don't hesitate to communicate with others on the site...
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Date: Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 17:28:17 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: fighting on the forums
Message:
To all,
The more I think about this fighting thing and the thought that struck me this morning the more I think there is something to it being similar to fighting with siblings. Run has said this type of behavior would not be tolerated in public and that is true. I oppose guidelines and it just seems like an impossible situation. I don't think I have acted so badly since I was a kid fighting with my sisters or on occasion with a lover in the past. I think most of us came from dysfunctional families, I know I did and this feels so much like that to me today. As you may know I do feel that writing here and in email is real. I know I am real sitting here at this key board and I am assuming the rest of you are human beings and not robots or something.
Now that I have given it thought I know I should have emailed Carol about my thoughts on Pman's treatment of her and as I posted to Carol I am sorry for having drug down the positive feeling of her thread while protesting pman's doing that very thing.
At the same time that I think this fighting is like sibling shit I think too that there is a certain closeness we share posting here together even though the group has grown and isn't as close knit as it use to be. Of course this is still no solution to this fighting problem but maybe some of the rest of you will have some thoughts on it and we can discuss it.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 17:53:51 (GMT)
From: ij
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: fighting on the forums
Message:
Robyn
Getting the drift of your message, I began to think of Homer Simpson, alter ego of GMJ??
How did I make that connection?
Got to run, beer going flat, telly needs watching
IJ
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:14:01 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: ij
Subject: fighting on the forums
Message:
Dear IJ,
'Getting the drift of your message, I began to think of Homer Simpson, alter ego of GMJ?? How did I make that connection?'
Uhhhh, dysfunctional family father? :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 00:07:41 (GMT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: fighting on the forums
Message:
Hi Robyn,

I am aware of your posts on AG and have to say that I don't think you've got anything to feel bad about. I too was shocked by what was happening this morning. As you say, it is an impossible situation. Like so many other things in life you end up wondering 'how the fuck did this happen?'

Well we all got to live with it and carry on. But Robyn, carrying on is always easier to do knowing there's folk like you out there who care. Back in the spring of last year when I tenderly stepped up to post, you were one of the first people to welcome me to the group. A while later when my wife Lee 'went ex' she was in mental tatters. She was frightened that she was losing her mind and wasn't sure that I was strong enough to help her (being a recent casualty myself). I advised her to post on the forum, I told her that we were not alone. Who were the first people to greet her? Robyn, Marianne and AJW.

Feeling better already!

Love... Charlie

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 05:05:03 (GMT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: just a test
Message:
asdf
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 00:34:16 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: fighting on the forums
Message:
Dear Charlie,
Thank you so much Charlie. Harry just posted to me on AG and then here you are. Tears are running down my face. I didn't expect any reply to my apology, it was to Roger and the right thing to do, IMO but it is still so very nice to get a bit of kindness pointed in my direction. I think you and Lee both are wonderful people, caring and friendly. I am so glad I helped you both in some small way to feel welcomed to life beyond maraji. Thanks again.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 06:16:42 (GMT)
From: Des Perado
Email: None
To: With appol's to John Lenn
Subject: fighting on the forums
Message:
IMAGINE

Imagine there’s no Knowledge,
It’s easy if you try
No scam to devide us
No Pams who scheme and lie
Imagine all ex-premies
Living for today

Imagine there’s no Lear jet
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to scrimp and save for
And no Maharaji too
Imagine all ex-premies
Living life in peace

You might say that I’m a dreamer
But I can’t be the only one
That knows one day this will be over
And we can get back to having fun.
(sorry John)

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 07:33:20 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Des Perado
Subject: fighting on the forums
Message:
Dear Des,
Another talent to join the ranks with Larkin and RT. Thanks Des.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 17:21:44 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Coventry exes?
Message:
It's a small world! Here I am in Ireland, staying with my friend Maire. She came to the pub with me to look at the site, and said, 'Oh, my cousins who lived in Coventry used to follow that guy in the mid -70's!' We went back to her house, where her 86 year old father also lives. He said, 'Ah Marianne, did ye kiss his toes?' ARRGH!!!!I admitted it. They all laughed.

Anyway, Maire's cousins are Patti and AnneMarie Davies. They lived in Coventry at the time. It sounds like they lived in a premie house or ashram. Patti met her husband then. He was a premie and they got out together, in the late 70's, she estimates. Anyone know these folks?

Marianne

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Date: Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 18:13:54 (GMT)
From: Sir David
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Marianne
Subject: Coventry exes? Yes!
Message:
Yes, I knew Anne-Marie Davies very well indeed. We both lived in the same ashram together in Rugby and we were good friends. Anne-Marie is one of the people I really would like to get in contact with as I miss her and have often thought about her over the decades.

Marianne; could you possibly get your friend to email me Anne-Marie's phone number or email address (if she's on the net) or at least provide some means of me getting in contact with Anne-Marie. I know that Anne-Marie would be very pleased to here from me again, after a break of over twenty years. My full name is David Simpkiss, by the way.

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 11:28:43 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Sir David
Subject: Coventry exes? Yes!
Message:
Sir Dave: My friend Maire is not on the net, but I would be happy to find out where her cousin is living and send you the information if Maire has no objection. I seriously doubt that she would have any problem with it.

Maire and I took her father to the pub for a drink last night and he had to tell me again how horrified he was about his nieces' involvement with M. Maire's father (their uncle -- their mother's brother) is a devout Catholic. He's a complete sweetie -- sort of a substitute father figure to me. He wanted to know just how many times I'd kissed the guru's feet. Then he told me that I should have washed my mouth out with soap after I did it. He was very close to Anne Marie and her sister, and it devastated him that they were involved. It seems there was lots and lots of satsang shared (at least by the families' perception) and it was very difficult for them to understand how the girls got involved. It's all water under the bridge now.

You can email me at my regular address about this if you want to do so. I'll ask Maire today about how to reach Anne Marie.

Quite an amazing coincidence, isn't it?

Marianne

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:07:36 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Marianne
Subject: Looking into those Irish eyes
Message:
Maire's Father sounds like good old Irish stock. I can just hear his Irish lilt as I read your post. I can see him sitting in the pub, solid and ancient, with a glass of Guiness in front of him, with the Irish green in his eyes, the Leprachauns in his heart and down to earth like the good old Irish peat.

God knows what he would have thought of his neices folowing Maharaji. But he's seen it come and go, and the wild winds in the hills have told him a different story.

I've sent you an email, Marianne. I don't know when you'll be able to get to read it.

Cheers.

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Date: Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 20:42:05 (GMT)
From: gERrY
Email: None
To: Sir David and Marianne
Subject: Coventry exes? Yes!
Message:
I know that Anne-Marie would be very pleased to here (sic) from me again,

Now Davy me boy hwat makes you think the lady'de be quite so anxious to greet ye what with your stuffy drawers and general poor hygiene?

And when are you gonna get your teeth fixed?

#############################################

Hey Marianne did you know you and Dave's new girlfriend's names are anagrams or whatever that's call, of each other ??? Can you still get email at your usual address or do you have a new one?

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 11:32:37 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: gERrY
Subject: Gerry, you meanie!
Message:
Gerry: Be nice to Sir Dave!

Nice to hear you. You can reach me at my regular aol address. I am very busy and still getting settled in Cork. It's WONDERFUL! I am so happy to be here. I'm looking forward to going to the UK to see the Brits and April in Paris, including a visit with J-M. I guess a truly paranoid person would call this a strategy tour! hahahahhaha

Hi to Patty too!

Marianne

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 00:24:06 (GMT)
From: Sir David
Email: None
To: gERrY
Subject: Coventry exes? Yes!
Message:
I don't know if you're trying to be funny there, Gerry, but it seems inappropriate to me. Anne-marie is an old friend of mine from the years we both spent in DLM in Coventry and surrounding area. We both went through a lot at that time, together.

It was DLM and Maharaji which forced the breakup of such friendships. It would be good to make contact again and defeat the 'agya' which caused many such friendships to end. Why do you seek to cheapen such a thing?

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 15:53:45 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Omigod, Dave and thanks P-Man
Message:
Dave, it was a joke. I know you have dentures and change your underdrawers at least twice a week.

I think it's great you will have a reunion with an old friend.

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 17:31:02 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: Picking up the lead balloon
To: gerry
Subject: Omigod, Dave and thanks P-Man
Message:
Well that joke went down like one, didn't it. Caught me in the wrong mood and these little characters on the screen don't always transmit humour too well.

It happens to us all.

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 02:28:52 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: Coventry exes? Yes!
Message:
David,
There was some humor in the outside chance that you had her perception of you all wrong. It happens when we least expect it. I don't think Gerry meant any harm or sought to cheapen anything. One must laugh at themselves.
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Date: Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 13:52:23 (GMT)
From: The other Forum God
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Getting political here
Message:
You're welcome to vote on this new poll. Click here to go to the Polling booth and place your vote or see results.
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Date: Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 12:29:29 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: yes you do
Subject: Hate Site
Message:
In the thread below, where Christopher prints the reply from the Charity Commisioners, there is a response from a premie who posts as 'yes you do'.

The premie describes this as a hate site. So far we've got 400 messages this year. I can't find a single 'hate message' amongst the lot of them.

Maybe you can help me premie-ji. What 'hate' are you talking about?

Anth the Hippy

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Date: Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 20:19:31 (GMT)
From: Bill =the rotton hateful
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: apple in the bunch
Message:
Yup, that is me, the hateful one here. Ruining the forum
and its pristine non hateful approach.

Yessireee, I hate loseing all the years doing the bidding of a
a guy having a hindu meglomaniac growing up spoiled and misbehaving
guru/lord almighty.
I hate the feet that I kissed
I hate the foot water I drank being told it was.......
I hate the song he now pretends not to know..arti.
I hate the premies that read posts here but refuse to grok the content.
I hate the mission and I hate all the people around prem rawat.
I hate his wife and kids.
I hate any and all of his friends.
I hate his companies.
I hate his instructors.
I hate his homes and cars and publications.
I HATE his father especially above all.
I hate a whole lot more but why say it all in one post when
I can take my time and post here more.

AND, I am ok with this and dont need therapy to stop it.
But thank you for your concern.
I hate the guys that run those other premie web sites.
ect.

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Date: Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 20:24:23 (GMT)
From: Rot
Email: None
To: Bill =the rotton hateful
Subject: Ap
Message:
He hated his brothers and mom, SO, it is a holy family
tradition to hate.
He hated to be inconvenienced.
He hated it when the ungrateful preemies started this web site.
He hated Jim Heller for dareing to badger him during forum 1.
He hates running low on money.
The guy HATES.
Dont think otherwise.
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Date: Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 16:46:23 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: premie barfing the buzzword
Message:
Anth,

I think some things in the cult have changed very little. One I think is the speed at which premies are taught the party line on any given subject. My guess is what we are seeing is the trickle down of the latest appropriate response among premies. Likely, Rawat himself labeled this a 'hate site' or some bigwig did and premies are doing one of the things they do best, parroting what they hear rather than analyzing something and coming up with an opinion of their very own. 'Hate site' has popped up many times. I think it reflects that premies say to eachother, oh never mind that place, it is just a 'hate site' in order to dismiss the very legitimate concerns we have. Other things I suspect are the party line are when we air their dirty laundry they accuse us of ' this is not the proper thing to discuss on the internet'. This is as if they think there is ANY proper forum to critisize their beloved leader.

I know that at times when I was a premie I would be behind the times and use the wrong buzzword. For example, once I used 'festival' when it had evolved into being an 'event'. I was greeted with a look of discomfort. He said, you mean 'event', oh yes, I never meant to use the verboten festival. I am sure premies are greeted with this sort of response if the slip and say 'satsang, mind, devotion' all words that have been left by the wayside and replaced by new words for the exact same ideas.

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Date: Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 16:07:59 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Well said, AJW!
Message:
AJW: You are quite correct..... I haven't seen ANY hate or even the word hate used on this site except by premies themselves. It's amazing how the old axiom of 'point a finger and there are four pointing back at you' comes alive again and again when applied to premies!

Premies: the only people spewing hate on this site is YOU! Look at the archives. Read them for yourselves, then tell me who is vomiting hate around here! Open your eyes, stop putting your fingers in them and READ the archives for yourselves, ok? I can state this categorically..... I dislike M's behavior, immensely, BUT I do not hate him or you! He's a fake and you are deluded! There, are you happy now?

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 11:43:56 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Well said, AJW!
Message:
This is no more a hate-site than the House of Commons is. Anyone who accuses the founders of and contributors to ex-premie.org of being motivated by nothing more than hate is, IMO, deluding themselves. But then, deluding yourself is half of what being a premie is all about.

Sure there are frequent battles and bickerings between various individuals on the Forum -that's natural and an inevitable part of the whole process - but just because someone holds a different viewpoint doesn't mean you have to hate them.

There is negativity and emotional trauma involved in de-programming yourself from ANY belief system.

This site is a valuable and useful place where we can express our feelings - quite often with more directness than we would in a face-to-face encounter. But that doesn't make it a hate site, even though hatred is sometimes expressed here.

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 00:29:51 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Well said, AJW!
Message:
Yes they are happy now.
Because they can look and find a post where someone says they
hate.
I provided it above as I did once before during some previous
claims by the premie world....or was it the lord himself,
oh yeah he reffered to us as 'enemies' Kind of a hateful term
I would say.
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 20:01:12 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Relax, BB
Message:
bb: I don't think anyone with half a brain in their head would consider a single .... ahem.... nasty-gram to be indicative of whether a site 'be hateful.' :-)

I think Marianne had a very valuable point below, that should not be missed. Premies (at least the accusatory ones here) don't seem to understand the mechanics of a hate site. To them I would recommend doing a Yahoo or Altavista search using the politically incorrect terms (we all know!) for the search. Having done this, they will be privy to what a hate-site is and is not!

Disagreement and SHOUTING do NOT a hate-site make! Advocating genocide (and making threats of same) is REAL hate! I really hope some of these premies that keep calling us hateful will do as I ask and see what the term 'hate' really means by visiting a few of the sites that spew it. It would be a real education!

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 19:28:07 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Relax, BB
Message:
Hi there Mike, I was glad to see you posting agin.
I remember being pretty hate filled when someone would dare
say anthing less satsang about the ultimate ruler.
Violence was just a step away for probably most of the premies
if they had heard pointed criticism of the guru during our
glorious loards dancing days.
There he was enshrined and alter-ed and the revered leader
had us all wound up. An ex forum or group during some years
would have elicited violent reactions from the premie zealots
for sure.
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Date: Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 17:13:56 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Hate site misnomer
Message:
Anth, et al.: I think what you have said is very important, especially Susan's point that the hate site designation is likely to have trickled down from the upper echelons of EV to the peons.

What is most bothersome about such a description is that it shows the true ignorance of the person uttering the phrase. A hate site is one where people advocate the genocide of races of people, or people of certain ethnicities, or even genders or sexual persuasions. Hate is about genocide, murder, threats, etc. Premies who have thrown us into that category seem to lack any comprehension of the true nature of the world around them. If they did, they would realize what a disservice they were doing to the people who are the targets of real hate sites.

Marianne

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 04:56:42 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Hate site misnomer
Message:
Actually, if I'm not mistaken, the only successful legal case was against a hate site directed at abortion doctors and clinics (neither a race, ethnic group or sexual orientation). A hate site is one which advocates hate, possibly more but not necessarily. Hate is primarily about hate and doesn't have to include threats or violence. It can be directed against religions, groups or even cults. This isn't a hate site against maharaji but it could be. It just isn't.

Certainly many ex-premies would have considered this site an extreme threat when they were premies, and maybe even found it hateful. I don't think it has any effect at all on targets of real hate sites. How could it?

What's bothersome is that we think premies claiming this a hate site has any effect at all, on anything. But I have to admit it's bothersome.

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 11:01:21 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: It DOES have an effect IMO
Message:
You say:

I don't think it has any effect at all on targets of real hate sites. How could it?

I think it does have an effect on premies, pointing to us hateful exes as Rawat's 'enemies'.

Meaning also that they (premies) now also have enemies.

And maybe also implying that if his 'mission' is a failure, exes are responsible for this !

I guess we're going to be used as scapegoats now.

My opinion is premies are deeply affected by this, and this is also a concern for me.

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 16:25:20 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: It DOES have an effect IMO
Message:
Hi Jean-Michel,
But the question is does it have an effect on targets of real hate sites like blacks, gays, lesbians, pro-choicers, jews, etc? Certainly premies are going to tell other premies we're the bad guys but it's sort of redundant. Once someone is a premie and accepts maharaji, they shut down to any analysis of the situation. All a premie would have to do to see the difference between this and a real hate site is read the site.
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 17:01:49 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Do any premie really care?
Message:
All a premie would have to do to see the difference between this and a real hate site is read the site.

I still tend to think that for ANY premie, 'this world' is a mess anyway, this is all 'maya', and who cares! They don't feel any concern for the real problems, they will never get involved in any of these issues, except for what might affect Rawat's events, HIS well-being and so on. This is what he's been hammering during his endless meetings with co-ordinators, organizors etc. And this is what he's always kept saying.

'We' exes will incarnate the devil, mind, anything evil on this earth, as the supreme evil is what's aimed at the satguru, the source of that 'ultimate experience'.

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 19:38:28 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel, et al
Subject: Maya means what?
Message:
Just curious,
I was wondering yesterday about the word maya. It is a dance move in belly dancing and yesterday it hit me that wasn't it also a word from M's world then or now, whatever. What does it mean, in your mind? I wonder why it is used in belly dance. What is the origin of the word?
JM, hope that leg is all healed now. :)
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 17:51:49 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: According to Rawat, Maya is
Message:

Here's Rawat's own words:

Grace and Gratitude

Look, that is why it is called Maya (illusion). This world is called 'Maya'. Why is it called Maya ? Because whatever things are there in this world -- I mean, nothing is real. First of all, in the beginning, it appears as if it would give you happiness. But any one can vouchsafe that the thing which was once supposed to give you happiness, would prove to be the bane of your existence. Because it is the nature of things in this world. This is their inherent nature. What can you do ? It's just nature . . . That is why, it is called Maya. It seems as if it were meant to provide you happiness, and you get attached to it, but the same thing one day or the other would definitely give you sorrow! Thus, this entire garden of frustrations, darkness and ignorance has been sown by the man for himself. He has sown it by his own hands. Nobody else sows it for him. Because if he so aspires and really desires from the bottom of his heart, he can even get that thing (Knowledge) in his life, and he can find such a giver (the Master) who can replace all his frustrations with hope, and the darkness with light. As has been said:

'I was drifting . . '
Where was I drifting? This whole world, this 'Maya' has been characterized as a river and I was drifting in that river of Maya:

'I was being carried away in the tide of the society and scriptures.'
I was caught up with all those things of the world. Because you can see anywhere in this world today that people are mostly concerned about the opinion of other people. Everybody usually talks about others, 'Oh, what will others say about me? What will they think about me?' Whatever a man does he does that after a careful consideration of other people's judgment about him -- the dress he puts on, the job he finds, the family he raises, where does he live, what he does, what he doesn't do, how does he look like, whether he is jolly or not -- in all his bearings, there is always this bug in his mind, 'Oh, what would people think? Whatever clothes I have put on, if they will see me in them, what people think about me? Oh, I am wearing these dirty clothes, if some acquaintance of mine finds me in them, what will they think about me? Therefore, I should be well dressed.' What is the standard of my job and my family -- I mean, behind all these things there is that bug of society: 'What would people say?' In addition to this inhibition there are all these distinctions among people, and envy, hatred, jealousy which adversely affect the human beings are there due to this society. Everybody knows that they should not be jealous. We all know that we should refrain from anger and jealousy but still man becomes their victim. And he himself is the cause of all these things. By his own doings. It is not the doing of anybody else. He himself is responsible for his own choice. Though he prays to God, 'Oh God, please save me from this calamity,' but who is responsible for that calamity which is besieging you? Who had sown its seeds? Neither your father, nor your grand-father sowed them, nobody else did it. Those seeds were sown by you yourself -- each and every one of them.

etc etc etc .... worth reading if you want to understand more !

Student, Disciple or Devotee?

Had there been no love, the giver of Knowledge would never have come. Had there been no love, he would not have given Knowledge to anybody.

Love is the cause of this creation. Love is the source of this human race and love is the origin of light and darkness. Love is the genesis of everything. If we do not imbibe love in our life, then what did we accomplish? What is left in the absence of love - the real love, the true love? So understand this fact clearly. Don't say, 'It is written. That is written.' Leave it. And experience - yourself.

If you go to your house, to your wife, and instead of cooking food she just tells you that she has 'written your food.'

What will you do? No. You need real food - in substantial form. Isn't it so? You must have food which you can eat, not just in written form. Just think. The experience too should be practical and living. And how beautiful it is that due to love, we are getting all this opportunity. Take advantage of it. Accept it and imbibe it. Open up your heart. Be a real student, a person who is totally dedicated. Though I know that you have not the capability to become one. So pray for this also that you may become a student. Be a devotee. But I know, you cannot become a devotee. For this too, you have to beg that you may become one. If you want to become a devotee, you can become one. But you do not know that you have to become a devotee. So far you have been a devotee of only one thing and that is maya (illusion). And if you are left alone just for one minute, you will again become a devotee of maya. Apparently you don't know how to practice real devotion. You only know how to practice devotion of maya. You can become a devotee of kali-yuga (dark-age), but if you want to be a true devotee, for that also you shall have to ask, how is that possible?

And also .....

The Radiance of Knowledge

a human being is not one but there are two entities amalgamated into one. One part is that which gets joy in talking about the supreme bliss and the other one is that part which takes pleasure in all sorts of false worldly things. So there is not one but two personalities in a man. I have noticed this fact that in this world the latter part of the human being which is biased towards falsehood, maya (illusion), lust and such other nasty things, that part is usually nourished and fed and is mostly attended to. But that other part, that other personality in man who needs Knowledge, who needs supreme happiness and is inclined towards nice things, is totally neglected.

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 23:52:00 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: According to Rawat, Maya is
Message:
Dear Jean-Michel,
YIKES!!! Can you imagine how thick the book would be if M published a dictonary!!!! Oh my Lordy!!!!! I only got through parts of each section you posted. God, how did I ever listen to him go on and on endlessly in my youth!!! Sheesh!
Thank you for the effort though. I do not get how a dance move has anything to do with illusion, seeing the surface reality as illusion, oh well. Illusion or not the dancing is so good for me physically and in identifying with my femininity and personal strength. Curious.

' I have noticed this fact that in this world the latter part of the human being which is biased towards falsehood, maya (illusion), lust and such other nasty things, that part is usually nourished and fed and is mostly attended to. But that other part, that other personality in man who needs Knowledge, who needs supreme happiness and is inclined towards nice things, is totally neglected.'

I wonder if he ever thought of living by this himself!
Love,
Robyn

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 18:15:28 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Do any premie really care?
Message:
Then it sounds like it would be easy to see how a premie could construe this as a hate site, or worse.
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 18:43:47 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Exactly, and this is where
Message:
the 'brainwashing' notion comes in.

Whether premies like it or not.

And it took me very long to understand how this worked for myself.

There is a common definition 'in this world' for hate, and what a hate group is.

But for a premie, hate becomes what's aimed at HIS guru. Hate comes from what HIS guru calls a hateful place.

The definitions get modified, the language gets modified, everything gets modified, and we're not speaking the same language anymore. And you've got a brainwashed person.

I guess you can find the same process at work for so many words:

Love, 'the world', peace, service, ego, self, etc

Shall we make a list? I guess it'll be endless.........

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 20:03:39 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Exactly, and this is where
Message:
I agree with you that language is a strong tool in cult programming and that there's a generally accepted definition for hate. But hate groups are not defined so narrowly and the dislike expressed here is sometimes very strong. Personally, I see this more as a protest site. The fact it is a discussion forum means the thrust can change as the content changes. Basically, exes are pissed that maharaji stole their time, energy, money and minds. That wouldn't qualify as a hate group but to premies it must look like a rabid, irrational group of people who are confused. I think they know they're pushing it by describing this as a hate site and that it isn't the same as typical hate sites. They're trying to use a broad brush to invalidate the claims made here that claim to invalidate the guru and his stuff.
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 22:32:24 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: You're going to far I think
Message:
because I've had some live conversations with premies talking about this site and mine, saying this is hate etc

Then I asked them if THEY had a chance to read themselves anything here.

You know what: none of them actually did. They were merely repeating what someone else told them.

They have stamped this thing, and they don't even want to investigate and lose their time on this parking lot !!!!!

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 22:58:07 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: You're going to far I think
Message:
Well, you have a point, Jean-Michel. It's been a long time since I've talked to a premie. It boggles the mind.
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 21:20:19 (GMT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Clear as a bell, Powerman (nt)
Message:
(nt=no text)
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 11:44:27 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I agree
Message:
J-M: I agree with your comments. I think the exes have sort of become like the people Nixon used to have on his enemies list to M and the the Pams.

Is there any chance you could get over to London for a Latvian night when I am there? I'll still be coming to Paris in April but it would be nice to have a big group all together. Many laughs to be had, I suspect!

Marianne

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 12:36:17 (GMT)
From: Des Perado
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: I agree
Message:
Marianne,

I'm sure that ex-premies will not be on M's Xmas card list this year
but I'm hopeful of receiving something from a premie or two. They don't hate me because I'm an ex.

I don't see the connection to Nixon.

Anyway, why all this talk of hate. Remember love? Or should I say Love?

Who do you love marianne?

Love, Des

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 21:34:59 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Des Perado
Subject: Read my journey
Message:
Des: I have been posting here for about 10 months. I love lots of people. I'm not into hate. It's the premies who call us hateful. Read my journey and you will have a better idea of who I am.

I see that you are here posting lots. Welcome! I don't have as much net access as I used to as I am working in Cork, Ireland -- rather than San Francisco, where I live -- and am forced to go to the pub to look at the web.

I'm a very happy person. Ask Powerman. He's my husband!

Love, Marianne

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Date: Tues, Jan 11, 2000 at 00:15:01 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Read my journey
Message:
Dear Marianne,
You got me laughing out loud on that one! :)
Pman your husband. Meestur and Misses Wretched! Hahahaha!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 22:28:04 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Read my journey
Message:
Oh yeah, baby. Marianne is very happy, loving and... oh yeah, a lawyer. And did I mention she's a lawyer?
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Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 11:30:20 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: I love you too
Message:
You're my favorite ex, sweetie!

Can't wait til the next time,
Marianne

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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 07:58:21 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Hate site misnomer
Message:
Didn't that abortion site list the doctor's that were on a hit list and after one had been killed thier name would be taken off the list on the site?
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 16:31:32 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Hate site misnomer
Message:
That's the one.
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Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2000 at 01:05:46 (GMT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: It's frothy!
Message:
Hi Marianne,

are you drinking Guinness with a shamrock carved in the froth tonight? Mmmmm, Mmmm , MMMMM!! It the perfect food begorough!

Looking forward to seeing you soon.

Charlie

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Date: Sun, Jan 09, 2000 at 18:21:54 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Hate site misnomer
Message:
Dear Marianne,
Your post here is excellent and hits the nail on the head more clearly then I've thought of it or seen it addressed here before. Thanks.
Nice to hear from you. :)
Love,
Robyn
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