Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 17:49:20 (GMT)
From: Jan 25, 2000 To: Feb 04, 2000 Page: 2 Of: 5


Roger eDrek™ -:- SOS, Need help on Margolis! -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:30:18 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- SOS, Need help on Margolis! -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 23:22:39 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- SOS, Need help on Margolis! -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 23:32:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ selene -:- SOS, Need help on Margolis! -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 23:46:21 (GMT)
__ Ian™ -:- dunno but -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:46:16 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek™ -:- And Margie D. Yansura -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:38:19 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Andrea Robins the new PR? -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:53:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Wordsmith Communications? -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:57:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- How about WordSage? (NT) -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 22:54:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Rob = WordSage@bellsouth -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 23:45:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ 09 -:- Rob = WordSage@bellsouth -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 03:55:32 (GMT)

Sir Dave -:- That appreciation.org page -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 18:32:54 (GMT)
__ Sean -:- Research!Research!Research! -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:40:34 (GMT)
__ G -:- I was incorrect -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 21:06:04 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek™ -:- Don't that just take the cake -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:33:54 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Don't that just take the cake -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 15:23:06 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Jargon Update ! -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 17:57:04 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek™ -:- These letters be on your site? -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 07:39:31 (GMT)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Jargon Update ! -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:51:06 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Accessibility was required -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 07:44:22 (GMT)
__ __ Oshlabaka -:- Jargon Update ! -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 04:48:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Jargon Update ! -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 05:09:09 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Jesus would've had problems -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 18:17:43 (GMT)
__ __ cqg -:- oi, bignose ... -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 21:33:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ corvuscorax -:- The Greek shall inherit... -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:36:24 (GMT)

G -:- The Imitation of M -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 14:11:30 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- The Imitation of M -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 15:20:33 (GMT)

An ex -:- To remind JB -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 05:11:48 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- To remind JB -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 06:16:02 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- My suggestion to Prem Rawat -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 22:36:37 (GMT)
__ Sean -:- My suggestion to Prem Rawat -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 23:05:15 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- The problem: he doesn't listen -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 00:16:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Or maybe he does, after all -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 14:33:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Or maybe he does, after all -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 14:58:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Here's what he now says! -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 16:24:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- ...message stays the SAME ???? -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 15:32:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Still says he's not a leader -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 17:00:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Can you help me -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 15:54:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- URL for 'not a leader' quote -:- Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 01:27:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sean -:- The problem: he doesn't listen -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 00:27:21 (GMT)

Jim -:- Anyone speak Hindi? -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:48:41 (GMT)
__ AJacharhey -:- Namaste Jim-Ji? -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 16:44:09 (GMT)
__ __ Jim Heller -:- Yes, I too miss Mata Ji -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:51:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ ex -:- Yes, I too miss Mata Ji -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 05:21:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ reader -:- Yes, I too miss Mata Ji -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 18:22:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- NT=No Text (NT) -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 18:54:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mike -:- Now, THIS WAS FUNNY(nt) -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:46:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- **** Brilliant!! Best of **** -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 13:12:01 (GMT)
__ Roger Berlitz eDrek™ -:- 37 languages and counting -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:59:46 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- M's site in Hindi -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 14:44:18 (GMT)

Loaf -:- All EV events cancelled -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 15:36:59 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- The Truth. -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 19:38:08 (GMT)
__ __ I. Dunno -:- In Your Dreams, baby! (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 05:01:45 (GMT)
__ G -:- All EV events cancelled? -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 03:52:03 (GMT)

Marianne -:- Thanks to recent exes -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 13:05:37 (GMT)
__ cqg -:- I second that (e)motion... -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 21:43:20 (GMT)
__ __ JHB -:- I second that (e)motion... -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 22:44:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ cqg -:- Yus, pliz (nt) -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 20:07:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- LOTU -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 14:02:01 (GMT)

rupert murdoch -:- donner/book business -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 05:29:13 (GMT)
__ Joey -:- donner/book business -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 06:18:17 (GMT)
__ __ rupie murdoch -:- donner/book business -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 18:29:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ rupee murdoch -:- donner/book business -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 04:41:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Thanks! And some questions -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 06:09:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Rupee -:- donner/book business -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 05:08:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- donner/book business -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 19:54:50 (GMT)

Mr David -:- Maharaji's forgetting manners -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 05:14:56 (GMT)
__ G -:- Maharaji's forgetting manners -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 12:40:47 (GMT)

Jim -:- Can we do this? -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 00:27:46 (GMT)
__ Ms. K -:- Can we do this? -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 00:57:06 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Can we do this? -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 01:27:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Wouldn't touch that thing... -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 02:34:15 (GMT)
__ __ Ms. K -:- Oh yeah...duh -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 01:05:35 (GMT)

A question -:- Jadeo.... -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 00:03:54 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- Really? -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 01:13:11 (GMT)
__ __ I saw him -:- Really? -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 03:45:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jack -:- Living in South Africa -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 07:02:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- It's that Paedophile again. -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 16:27:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jack -:- Living in South Africa -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 07:06:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ to Susan -:- Really? -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 03:49:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Susan -:- Really? -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 04:34:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ let me see -:- I get back with you -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 04:57:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ to susan -:- Jagdeo -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 05:13:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nina -:- WHERE IS THE RECENT EX'S Forum -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:04:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ RE FA -:- RECENT EX'S Info -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 19:19:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- try this -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:39:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Eddythehootle -:- Susan.. -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 18:40:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Dear Eddy -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 18:43:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim Heller -:- Don't buy it myself -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:42:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Am I dense or... -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 18:40:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim Heller -:- No, you're not dense, you're j -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 02:32:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- I was incredibly fragile... -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 16:06:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- do I dare.... -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 15:34:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim Heller -:- do I dare.... -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 17:08:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- do I dare.... -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 18:16:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ selene -:- aarrgggh i don't mean!! -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 18:31:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- How long would you say the pro -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 15:01:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim Heller -:- About three minutes (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 17:09:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- What was the last straw ? -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 17:51:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Jagdeo -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 05:27:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ to Susan -:- Jagdeo -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 06:50:20 (GMT)

Sean -:- Message to Premies -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 20:18:50 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- Message to Premies -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 23:01:56 (GMT)
__ __ Sean -:- Message to Premies -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 23:57:43 (GMT)

Jim -:- Funnier than the Onion! -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 19:33:36 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Button your lip, Heller!!! -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 18:01:44 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- It's a love fest -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 22:55:37 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Button your lip, Heller!!! -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:20:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- It's big, it's gigantic, it's -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 01:16:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Sir Dave is a Satpal Jr. Plant -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 20:26:17 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- You're right... -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 17:34:14 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Come on, guys! -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 21:51:50 (GMT)
__ __ Joey -:- Am I going to far with this? -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 18:41:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Am I going to far with this? -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 01:57:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- but who's worth more $ -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 02:54:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- but who's worth more $ -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 12:55:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- At the risk of calling you a -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:18:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- At the risk of calling you a -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:56:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- At the risk of calling you a -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 20:16:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- At the risk of calling you a -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 20:49:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sean -:- At the risk of calling you a -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 20:08:08 (GMT)
__ __ Bouncing Betty -:- Come on, guys! -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 22:03:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ VP -:- Come on, guys! -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 06:33:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Exactly, Veep -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:44:01 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- Come on, guys! -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 22:01:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- What a book! -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 00:20:09 (GMT)

Richard -:- Rawat in disguise? -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 18:52:44 (GMT)
__ Runamok -:- quasi-premie -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 07:29:06 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Rawat's in disgrace here! -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 21:57:46 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- Rawat's in disgrace here! -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 22:04:48 (GMT)
__ __ Gail -:- Rawat's in disgrace here! -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 22:03:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Rawat's in disgrace here! -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 22:10:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JB -:- Your info, as usual, is absurd -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 05:05:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sorry! -:- Your info is absurd -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 04:41:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Thanks for that Ignorant Post -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 20:41:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Your info, as usual, is absurd -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:52:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- JB, JW, Selene - ***BEST*** -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 21:13:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- JB, JW, Selene - ***BEST*** -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 00:03:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- JB, JW, Selene - ***BEST*** -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 01:09:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- JB, JW, Selene - ***BEST*** -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 01:34:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- M ALWAYS WAS.... -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 17:39:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- JB ALWAYS WAS.... -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:49:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Common baby, light my fire! -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 21:23:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ EddytheHootle -:- A LOT OF BULLS BABY -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 13:49:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Junkies? Speak for yourself -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 18:55:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Eddy time to leave the 60's NT -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 19:09:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- How utterly stupid -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 16:27:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ EddytheHootle -:- WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE JIM? -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 16:47:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sean -:- WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE JIM? -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 03:21:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ EddytheHootle -:- Skunks Works -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 09:35:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim Heller -:- But Eddy!!!!! -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:07:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim Heller -:- And furthermore .... -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:18:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim Heller -:- Oh EDeeeeeeee?????????? -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:29:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim Heller -:- Shit! Try that again -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:31:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ EddytheHootle -:- Whats up with the Mouse -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 19:04:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim Heller -:- Ah, the mouse -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 02:51:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- A LOT OF BULLS BABY -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 15:18:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- You got it, G! -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 20:15:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Bill Gates -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 22:13:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Bill Gates -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 23:55:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- THIS IS IMPORTANT!! -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 21:48:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim Heller -:- Q's re time and timing -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 04:13:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir David -:- It seems obvious to me -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 06:30:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- THIS IS IMPORTANT!! -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 02:25:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- THIS IS IMPORTANT!! -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 03:40:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sean -:- THIS IS IMPORTANT!! -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:56:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Meditating for 24 hours! -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 01:10:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sean -:- Meditating for 24 hours! -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 01:21:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- THIS IS IMPORTANT!! -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 05:10:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!! -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 04:46:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!! -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 06:02:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ms. K -:- Selene, you crack me up! -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 12:17:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Not so fast, Katie -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 16:20:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Not so fast, Katie -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:30:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Are you Shepardizing me? -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:25:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Are you Shepardizing me? -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 01:49:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Shouldn't M have quized? -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:41:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim Heller -:- You're really pushing my butto -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:55:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Becuz subjet lîn much small -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 05:27:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Correxione -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:37:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- How about a civil suit? -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 07:12:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- All of 'em -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 07:23:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sorry -:- THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!! -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 06:07:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Who's in the Superbowl? -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 10:08:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ and ps -:- THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!! -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 06:46:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Super HOT ***BEST*** -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 00:58:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, way cool (but HOT for m) -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 01:49:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- You're so far from real world -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 10:03:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mr David -:- Your help needed, JB -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 05:31:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim Heller -:- Fine then, let's clean house -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 05:24:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Welcome back, pal! -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 18:24:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yeah, but I'm not supposed to -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:28:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Students take me seriously -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 20:55:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- dartboard ??? ... -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 21:09:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- BLACK MUSEUM!!!!! -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 14:04:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- BLACK MUSEUM on Radio? -:- Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 07:45:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- BLACK MUSEUM!!!!! -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 16:18:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- He's shitting himself.... -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 03:11:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- Wheeeeedddoooogggieeee!! -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 22:46:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Wheeeeedddoooogggieeee!! -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 22:57:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Ms. K -:- He sounds depressed -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 23:09:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- He sounds depressed -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 00:02:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ms. K -:- He sounds depressed -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 00:59:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- He sounds depressed -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 18:40:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Cheer up -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 23:21:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Perspiring Aspirant -:- Cheer up -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 04:54:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Here's grace -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 18:31:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Cheer up -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 11:07:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Aspirant -:- Cheer up -:- Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 21:43:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Cheer up -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 11:03:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- another 'Best of' (in my book) -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 21:01:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- another 'Best of' (in my book) -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 21:55:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- Two for two??? cryptic???(nt) -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 19:26:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ms. K -:- G's post from inactive index -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 23:14:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ 09 -:- When a wife gets fed up...... -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 08:18:37 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- Rawat in disguise? -:- Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 18:59:45 (GMT)
__ __ cqg -:- John, you sound like ... -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 20:46:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- John, you sound like ... -:- Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 21:39:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cqg -:- aegidian head-butts?? -:- Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 19:38:39 (GMT)


Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:30:18 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Everyone
Subject: SOS, Need help on Margolis!
Message:
Yes, I need help, but this time I need anyone's help on whatever information they can give me past or present about Lynn Margolis.

Who was she?
What did she do?
Where did she operate?
Where did she live?

What does she do now?
Where does she live (approximately) now?

Thanks

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 23:22:39 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: SOS, Need help on Margolis!
Message:
Isn't that the actess from ER?
Just kidding. I sent you email
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 23:32:19 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Selene
Subject: SOS, Need help on Margolis!
Message:
Ah, good! I just checked IMDB for data on the movie 'Man on the Moon' and Kaufman's girlfriend's name was Lynne Margulies.

Ok, that helps me some.

Still need to know about the DLM Lynn Margolis, if such person exists.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 23:46:21 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: SOS, Need help on Margolis!
Message:
yeah, just reread the post.
That's what I get for trying to work all day. more befuddled.
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:46:16 (GMT)
From: Ian™
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: dunno but
Message:
ask this guy in Memphis, who used to do service at the residence
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:38:19 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: And Margie D. Yansura
Message:
Anyone ever hear of Margie Yansura? Might be in Florida.
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:53:21 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Andrea Robins the new PR?
Message:
Anybody know about Andrea Robins, the PR Officer mentioned below in Jean-Michel's post?

Lives in Florida.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:57:16 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Wordsmith Communications?
Message:
West Palm Beach Public Relations firm named Wordsmith Communications.

There is a webpage for Wordsmith Communications in Oregon and it says, Bill Seifert founded Wordsmith in 1985.

There is a link, don't know where it is right now, for a Wordsmith Communications in West Palm Beach, but it's a dead link.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 22:54:58 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: How about WordSage? (NT)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 23:45:23 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Rob = WordSage@bellsouth
Message:
Subject Should Be: Rob was wordsage@bellsouth.net

I've dug out some old email from Rob that he sent to me from wordsage@bellsouth.net. That address is dead now.

Tracing the IP from the email header it goes to a router in what is probably Miami (MIA in the name) and then maybe somewhere else for another 4 hops.

As you might be able to tell I'm on a treasure hunt. Don't know where it's going and the final report may be just total speculation, but I think interesting and possible. I've come to the conclusion that some of my assumptions were wrong, but interestingly enough just by following one lead (mistaking 'wordsage' for 'wordsmith') I might have stumbled into something moderately interesing, but nothing large enough to crumble the evil empire.

I might have to create a special section at House of Maharaji Drek to post it.

Sign me out as desperately seeking Lynn Margolis

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 03:55:32 (GMT)
From: 09
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Rob = WordSage@bellsouth
Message:
There was a Margolis guy in Denver. Might have been his wife.
He was some VIP. I think he was involved on the fringes of the Mishler coup on Ms side.
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 18:32:54 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: That appreciation.org page
Message:
Someone here has mentioned a page on appreciation.org on which there is a recent picture of The Superior Power In Person wearing a Krishna costume and crown. Well I've looked and I've looked but I'm damned if I can see this picture.

So have they taken the picture down? Did Maharaji (an incarnation of Krishna) read the posts here refering to it and give supreme agya to have it removed?

Does that mean Maharaji isn't Krishna any more? Did he get his birth wrong and is he really only the last born of an obscure Indian guru who used to pretend to play the flute and hit people with his stick?

You know what this means, don't you. Son of Satpal, nobody here reckognises your divine divinity but the time is coming soon...

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:40:34 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: seang2@earthlink.net
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Research!Research!Research!
Message:
If you would do your research you would know that Maharaj ji is the incarnation of Krishna's little brother Chuck.

(I feel like I'm losing credibility with this kind of shit)

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 21:06:04 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: I was incorrect
Message:
I stand corrected. Oh my God, I'm imperfect.

Here's a link to the page. It was my imagination, which shows how much I've been brainwashed. Rawat is at the top half way between the 's' in 'Happenings' and the right side. He's dressed all in white on a big chair.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:33:54 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Don't that just take the cake
Message:
So, Sir Dave, what you are saying is that we were the victims of the biggest scam of all. All along we should have been worshipping Satpal! Our lives would have been completely different?

This is huge!

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 15:23:06 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Don't that just take the cake
Message:
Interesting to think what would have happened if we'd all aligned ourselves with Bal Bagwan Ji instead of Guru Maharaj Ji. You see, back then, I didn't think there was any question about aligning with one particular guru. I thought Maharaji was the Lord, not a mere guru.

When Mata Ji said that Bal Bagwan Ji was the true Sat Guru and Maharaji had fallen by the wayside; this caused major confusion in me. How could Maharaji's own family not know he was the Lord and if Bal Bagwan Ji had suddenly become a Sat Guru, was there never a Lord? If only I'd known then what I know now, I'd have been off like a shot!

As it happens, I was in an ashram and subject to all of the usual 'group think' coming from every direction. I couldn't piece this puzzle together and just kept on believing that Maharaji was still God in human form.

If I really believed that Maharaji wasn't the Lord and that it was just two brothers fighting it out between themselves over satguruship, I would have left the ashram immediately and perhaps kept on the fringes to keep in touch with all the people I'd got to know.

God, were we duped.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 17:57:04 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Jargon Update !
Message:
Here's a copy of some EV's mail to co-ordinators:

Dear All,
Hopefully the following is a 'definitive list' of event types and what they mean. Please keep it for future reference. Thanks, Craig.
------------------------------------
Dear All

The following is my simple understanding of the different event types:

PWK Event: An Event only for people who have received the four techniques of
Knowledge (I wanted to start with the easy one first).

Aspirant/Mixed: An Event for People with Knowledge and Aspirants (people who have not
received Knowledge, but have an understanding of the process and are
aspiring to receive Knowledge).
The focus of this type of event is mainly on the process of preparing for
and receiving Knowledge from the Master (not intended for introducing
new people).
This type of event is usually held the day before a Knowledge session.

Mixed: An Event for People with Knowledge and Aspirants (topics often assume
a basic awareness of Knowledge and the Master).
The focus of this type of event is mainly on Knowledge and Life (not
specifically intended for introducing new people to Knowledge and M).

Introductory: An Event for People with Knowledge, Aspirants and People who are not
aspirants but are aware of M and Knowledge and are interested in
learning more.

I hope this helps.
Best Regards
Craig (Weeding), Event Direction
------------------------------------------

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 07:39:31 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: These letters be on your site?
Message:
Subject S.B.Are these letters on your site, J-M?

They should be! Such communication is an excellent historical record of what's going on today. And it may be completely different tomorrow.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:51:06 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Jargon Update !
Message:
I wonder if these 'public' programs in the US are in spaces that meet ADA guidelines. Do we have any disabled exes who would be willing to fight that battle?
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 07:44:22 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Accessibility was required
Message:
I believe that one of the requirements for venues showing videos was accessibility. Or at least I hope so.

Other requirements, which might not have been adhered to, were:

Near public transportation
Clean and pleasing
Decent neighborhoods (I believe)

Other than near public transportation, I'd say from my experience of premie houses in the early days that they would not meet the requirements at all.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 04:48:27 (GMT)
From: Oshlabaka
Email: jdonohue41@cs.com
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Jargon Update !
Message:

Oshlabaka responded:
I am a practicing current disabled preme and I can tell you that these programs were ADA before ADA
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 05:09:09 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Oshlabaka
Subject: Jargon Update !
Message:
So much for that idea ---
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 18:17:43 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Jesus would've had problems
Message:
How would Jesus have given the Sermon on the Mount? It would have been a real headache for him - leave the aspirants in the valley and then shout especially loud when there's something they should hear?

I didn't realise being a master was so complicated. That old saying, 'We're all one' will have to be changed to something like, 'We're all different levels of what we can be allowed to hear'.

A cynic might think that Maharaji's trying to hide something from people. No, he wouldn't do that, would he.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 21:33:22 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: oi, bignose ...
Message:

cqg responded:
'a cynic might think that Maharaji's trying to hide something from people.

Wot's he got to 'ide ven?

(Answers on the end of a pin?)

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:36:24 (GMT)
From: corvuscorax
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: The Greek shall inherit...
Message:
The man may not be greek, but look at the inheritance!!!...

Back to the thread; madre mia what a mess o' gobbledegook. It is quite a departure from 'suffer little children' etc. So God's main representative on earth is now dividing the population, into convenient groups. Oy vey, if circumcision was so divided. Those who are circumcised, those who want circumcision and those who've heard of it and may.

Perhaps they might consider other categories. a]those who have it and practice. b]those who have it, but are far too busy priming the pump c]those who have it and don't care for it.

What a bunch of bureaucrats!
Jamie
--------------------------

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 14:11:30 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Imitation of M
Message:
How have we imitated you, Mr. Prem Pal Rawat (aka Maharaji, Guru Maharaj Ji, Lord of the Universe, Humanitarian Leader, etc.)?
Let us count the ways.

To start:

1. When you had a mustache, many 'brothers' grew a mustache.
2. When you shaved it off, many 'brothers' shaved theirs.
3. When you said 'you know, it's like', so did we.
4. When you say stuff like 'that place from the heart', 'that love', 'this life', 'this ______ (fill in the blank)', 'that _____ (fill in the blank)' and other new-age sludge, well, ditto for us.
5. When you started smoking (or let it he known that you smoke), many premies started. Some may die of cancer because of that.
6. You ripped us off, so we ripped each other off, and also 'non-premies' of course, they don't even count.
7. You lied to us, so we lied to everyone.
8. You haven't given to charity (as far as I know) and certainly don't encourage it, so many premies haven't given at all or very little to charity (and if giving to a little to charity felt guilty for not giving it to you).
9. Refused to answer questions about youself, we kept it quiet too.
10. You psychologically abused/abuse your followers, so did many of us.

These are just some of the ways that 'premies' (your 'lovers' i.e. worshippers) have, with your permission, imitated you. Anybody have anything to add?

Another interesting list would be ways premies have NOT imitated m, usually because he would not/will not permit it. For example, getting married (in the Ashram days), wearing a crown, saying or implying 'I'm GOD and you are not'.

What kind of reaction would I get if I showed up at a video event wearing a crown and said that 'I am THE MASTER, you may kiss my feet.'? I'd probably be locked up. Check out www.appreciation.org, it looks like m is wearing a crown again in India. Check under 'Happenings'. And premies, try not to get too emotionally excited.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 15:20:33 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: G
Subject: The Imitation of M
Message:
I couldn't see the crown. I did have a look at the world map. It seems things are only happening in USA, Canada, UK, India and Malaysia. Clicked on India. There's a guy there who says that Maharaji is awakening the Hanuman within him.

So that's it - Maharaji is Rama. And I always thaught he was Krishna. Well, who wants to be a monkey anyway???

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 05:11:48 (GMT)
From: An ex
Email: None
To: Rawat and CO
Subject: To remind JB
Message:
Jean-Michel wrote this a while a go - So good!!!

'We are mad as hell and we are not going to take it anymore!!'

Message:
What you've asked for!
Mr Rawat,

I thought I had to send you a copy of a post I made on the Internet, on the ex-premie.org forum, as it was destined to YOU.

I've been one of your faithful followers for more than 24 years, helped you in whatever possible way in your work. I've spent almost 6 years in your ashram. A very significant part of my life has been dedicated to YOU in your organizations. I've been one of your part-time instructors in France, where I live.

Until I finally realized there was too much wrong things going on around you, and that you can't be considered an innocent in this respect. YOU ARE the head of your organizations, and you've been having this role for a very long time. I can admit that you were not totally responsible of what was going on in DLM before you were 16, or your wedding, maybe 18. I know you're an intelligent person.
AND YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE for what's going on around you.

Many things have been bothering me during this journey at your service, and I've always thought none of these bothering facts was related to your 'knowledge'.

WHY CAN'T YOU BE HONEST ?
Why do you keep showing such an awful picture of what you call 'knowledge'.
Who IS responsible for this?
WILL YOU answer me?
I know you could do much better than what you're doing now.
You know how your premies are doing (not so well in my opinion).
Why don't you show some love for them and help them out of the stupid belief you've hammered in their craniums.
YOU are the one who can do something.
BE HONEST!

You can help them, and there are people who can help you setting the situation straight.
You don't need all these servants, and they DON'T need you for their spiritual growth, if this is what they're looking for.

There ARE qualified meditation teachers.
There are many ways to develop one's spiritual side.
Your 'knowledge' is not something appropriate, and YOU KNOW IT!
There are many ways to have a fruitful and beautiful life, and 'knowledge' is not appropriate in this respect.
WHY do you think that more than 90% of the people who've ever received 'knowledge' left ? Try to be honest, will you ?

You ARE rich enough now to now live without their 'donations' , and let them have THEIR lives.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here is the copy of that post I made on the forum:

M just wrote on his website, in his 'journey' section :

'Quite a few people wanted to see me as a figurehead. I didn't want to be one and I am not one. A few others saw me as a leader, and I didn't want to be one and I am not one.'
I guess that most of the premies have heard him say things like (all this has been transcribed and published in DLM/EV's magazines) :

'Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? Guru Maharaj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destroyer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? When human beings forget the religion of humanity, the Supreme Lord incarnates. He takes a body and comes on this earth ......'
or
'And if there has to be devotee, he has to be in a physical form. A devotee has to devote something. Have you understood now ? To devote something, he has to be in a physical form. And where is it possible for him to be in physical form ? On the earth. And with whom can he be in the physical form ? With the Lord, who is in His physical form! He has to be with the Physical Lord who has come into this physical world with a Physical Body. Understood.'
or
'Look it's beyone liberation. It's beyond all those things. Beyond all concepts. In this lifetime, we have the opportunity to realize, to be with GURU MAHARAJ JI. Be it not GURU MAHARAJ JI - You know maybe they didn't call him GURU MAHARAJ JI - Maybe they called him Lord, anything to be with that power. To be with that thing. To be not infinite. And yet to be with the infinite. To be here as individuals. And yet to be able to be next to the person who is everything, GURU MAHARAJ JI. The Lord all powerful.....'
or
'Do you need me? I am with you.
You can't see me, though I'm the light that allows you too see me. You can't hear me though I talk through your voice. You can't feel me, though I'm the power that works in your hands. I'm working within you though you ignore my paths. I'm working though you don't recognize my work.
I'm not a strange vision. I'm not a mystery - only in absolute silence beyond the personality that you seem to be; and then only like a feeling and like faith. Still I'm with you, still I hear you, still I can answer you.
When you need me, I'm with you and I help you. In the moments in which you think you only find yourself, I'm with you. Even in your fears. Even in your pain, even when you meditate and when you don't meditate. I'm within you and you're within me. Only in your mind are the problems of 'mine' and 'yours', but still only with your mind you can know and perceive me.
Empty your heart of ignorant fears because apart from your personality, in between, I will be with you. By yourself, you cannot do anything, but I can do everything.
Though you cannot see the good - The good is there. Because I am there, because I have to be, because I am everything. Only in me the world has meaning. Only when you are in me, the world will take it's true shape. Only because I am the law, in which rests the movement of the stars and the growth of each living cell. I am the love that is the fulfillment of the law; I am safety; I am your peace; I am everything. Though you fail finding me, I never fail finding you. Though your faith in me is insecure, my faith in you never vanishes. Though you give your faith and love senselessly to others, My love is only for you, because I know you, because I love you.'

I can't understand how both ways of putting it are compatible!
Whether really he's the Lord of the Universe, and his 'journey' is a lie

or

he lied saying he's the LOTU, and he's really no figurehead

or

I don't understand anything of his logic.

Being what he thinks he is, could he say anything and anything he says is true?

I don't understand, and I doubt anybody will! What's his credibility?

And I've been horrified by his website.

1/ the layout is terrible, it looks like some hellish arcade games
2/ the copyright stuff is awful: you click on the light, you're ready for the experience of your life, and you get to one of the worse thing you get to see on the web. I've seen some awful websites, like those showing corpses and body parts, and I would rate the maharaji.org right next to those.
3/ his cookie sytem is monstrous. Even Microsoft doesn't do this!
4/ the content is empty. It only looks like some justification for the critics he's getting.
No presentation of his 'beautiful knowledge' whatsoever.
Very very strange indeed!

I am really wondering what the premies think seeing something like this as the frontpage of their beloved knowledge! Ashamed watching their maharaji displaying something like this? I would have been ashamed 3 years ago, honestly.

I would quote him again,

'when you do something wrong, there will be no one around to stop you.'
Prempal Rawat, you're doing something awfully wrong! Stop it!
+++++++++++++++

Best regards from your ex-premie,

jean-michel kahn

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 06:16:02 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: An ex
Subject: To remind JB
Message:
he is goin down now
it is only a matter of time
he will retire in more comfort than most of us.
but he will stop
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 22:36:37 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: My suggestion to Prem Rawat
Message:
Hey Prem,

You now have such a beautiful organization set up. Why don't you use it? I can see that you stay so shyly home now to deliver your holy discourse. Are you afraid saying anything wrong? Do you want your satsang edited after you've talked? But even doing that, you keep saying the most stupid things and lose every credit with your remaining premies. It looks like more than 50% of them left since you last TV broadcast.

Don't you think it's about time to use your own PR, and ask them to check your words before you open your mouth?

Here is a copy of a document your office sent to every place some time ago. I suggest you read it, and ask your premies to help you.

Dear city, aspirant and information contacts,

Regarding PR approval of written documents:

We would like you to know that Andrea Robins is the US PR contact now and will be taking over the function of giving PR approval for written documents. Whenever you have written documents that need PR approval, please send them to Andrea Robins either by FirstClass, email: andrearob@aol.com, or by fax (904) 532-0559.

Please note 2 important points: any document that has already been approved like monthly or weekly schedules and invitations, does not need to be approved unless you are changing language or content dramatically. The method of transmittal for a document doesn’t matter - we still need to approve it. For example, if you are sending an informational letter about local events or any other document that needs approval, by either snail mail or email, Andrea still needs to approve it.

Please remember: we still request one week turnaround time for approvals. In some cases, the document may need review by legal and the information contact. For documents that will go on the information table at a local or national event, (unless it has been previously approved), Danielle Fitzpatrick will receive them from Andrea to approve.

Thanks for your cooperation. If you have any questions regarding the above, please contact Andrea at (407) 262-1760.

Yours faithfully

Jean-Michel

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 23:05:15 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: seang2@earthlink.net
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: My suggestion to Prem Rawat
Message:
So if this is all so fucking Divine, all in His hands and by His Grace, why do they need PR approval. Can't The Lord of the Universe take care of these little matters.
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 00:16:54 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Sean
Subject: The problem: he doesn't listen
Message:
Look at the stupid things he said last time, after all the preparations and editing!

Now the question is: do you think his 'students' could do a better job?

With such a 'master', no wonder everything is a mess in EV....

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 14:33:44 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Or maybe he does, after all
Message:
I've just re-read his 'journey', and believe it or not, he doesn't say anymore :

'Quite a few people wanted to see me as a figurehead. I didn't want to be one and I am not one. A few others saw me as a leader, and I didn't want to be one and I am not one.'

He's gone into a much more sophisticated story, which can be also be totally debunked.

Anybody wanting to do that?

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 14:58:53 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Or maybe he does, after all
Message:

JHB responded:
J-M,

I think you're mistaken. I've just re-read his journey and it looks exactly the same as before, including the part you've quoted.

Maybe you were looking at a different part of his site?

John.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 16:24:57 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Here's what he now says!
Message:
In his 'preface':

... People through the years have tried to place me in a mold, and from the very early years I have not been able to oblige them.
When I was very young, people were looking for the 'old silver-haired Guru with flowing white robes.' I was only eight.
When people were flocking to India for their search, I was in the West.
When people were looking for sophisticated discourses, I spoke of simple things.
When people wanted nirvana, I said, 'You need peace.'
When people said, 'Tell us of the scriptures,' I said, 'Look within you.'
When people asked, 'What is your qualification?' I said, 'Judge me by what I offer.'
To this day, some people see me the way they want to. After all, I guess it is rather inconvenient to see things as they really are.
I have evolved, but my message stays the same. Externally, I have changed but within me, something stays the same.

And in his 'journey':

.... I think a lot of people couldn't handle my age. I remember when I was six and would speak, some people claimed it was a tape recorder. That was never the case, but it did make a bad impression on me that those who simply couldn't understand resorted to bizarre explanations. That was the start of the controversies.

I love this quote: 'When you do something right, there will always be those who criticize you; when you do something wrong, there will be no one around to stop you.'
There I was with a very simple possibility. All the old ways of doing things were yet to be exported to the West. As a young boy, I needed help with disseminating Knowledge, but it was a very different kind of help I was about to encounter.
I wanted things simple, yet they weren't. The effort to simplify continues.

When I came to the West, the possibility of Knowledge existed in one country. Now it exists in 81 countries. Since there was and is no blueprint for accomplishing this, I find myself in the continuous process of simplification, rediscovery, and reinvention.

I love hard work and I love to work hard. Changes happened; evolution was afoot and still is. The changeable changes; the unchangeable stays. The challenge grows ever more challenging and beautiful.

I look forward to it.

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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 15:32:11 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: ...message stays the SAME ????
Message:
He has the nerve to say:

'...my message stays the same' ??????

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 17:00:35 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Still says he's not a leader
Message:
He's still saying he's not a figurehead or a leader, see this page. Well, I would agree, he's not much of a leader.

On the second page of his journey, he writes about how, when he was growing up, the skies were 'dauntingly' dark blue. I looked up 'dauntingly' at www.dictionary.com and found daunt.

daunt (dônt, dänt)
v. tr. daunt·ed, daunt·ing, daunts.

To abate the courage of; discourage.
See Synonyms at dismay.

[Middle English daunten,
from Old French danter,
from Latin domitre,
frequentative of domre, to tame;
see dem- in Indo-European Roots.]

So Prem (aka Maharaji, may I call you Prem? that is your name), if you are reading this, how was it that just looking up at the sky was making you feel discouraged, dismayed? Were you, perhaps, projecting your own emotional state? What were you feeling discouraged about? Or maybe that is not what you meant and 'dauntingly' is just a poor choice of words? I can go on and on about your journey, but not right now.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 15:54:09 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Can you help me
Message:
and give me the url of the page with that quote?

Thank you !

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Date: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 01:27:00 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: URL for 'not a leader' quote
Message:
Here's the URL
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 00:27:21 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: seang2@earthlink.net
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: The problem: he doesn't listen
Message:
But there is still the question about all that Divine Grace, and we're all in his hands. Maharaji's grace guides us. There is a post right now from an aspirant who was looking for Grace to guide him (thank god Robyn was able to help). Why don't they get the connection. It's either him or it's not. And I know they believe it's him. My ex-wife is still in there after 26 years and she believes it. He's the LORD. Why would it matter to them how stupid he sounds.

Oh, I know. It's LILA!

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:48:41 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Anyone speak Hindi?
Message:
Satpal gives a two-part interview on wht appears to be Hindi TV on his web site. It'd be interesting to know what he says, wouldn't it? Any Hindi exes or friends of exes who might be able to check it out and let us know?

Satpal Speaks

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 16:44:09 (GMT)
From: AJacharhey
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Namaste Jim-Ji?
Message:
Namaste Jim-Ji.

It's boda achar to see you back on the forum Ji.

Eck tola charas sukria?

Anth-Ji

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:51:07 (GMT)
From: Jim Heller
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: AJacharhey
Subject: Yes, I too miss Mata Ji
Message:
But nothing's gonna bring her back, Anth. She's gone, man. Gone, gone, gone. The best you can do, I guess, is go over to Satpal's page where they've got another Mata Ji who'll put you to sleep, I'm sure, just like the last one. Hey, they've got extras on every one.

The Mature (and deceased) Widows, Mothers and Second-Wives of Indian Cult Leaders Page

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 05:21:28 (GMT)
From: ex
Email: None
To: Jim Heller
Subject: Yes, I too miss Mata Ji
Message:

ex responded:
Mata Ji... ah yes, the mother of creation...
a friend of mine tells this story about a woman he knows who went to an early program with mata ji speaking. Charnanand is translating for the audience, as the holy mother only speaks hindi.
This woman, however, is fluent in hindi, and can understand every hindi word the holy mother of creation is saying...
As mata ji screams at the audience, charnanand translates.
It went something like this...

Mata:you must giver everything, everything to the holy lotus feet of Guru Maharaji, everything...
Charnanand: It is so nice to see all your smiling faces...

Mata:take off your watches right now and give them to the perfect master...
Charnanand: Maharaji has this most holy, perfect knowledge...

Mata:You will burn in hell if you don't give everything....
Charnanand:This meditation can bring you perfect peace...

Mata:YOur lives are worthless without the perfect master.Now that you have heard, you must surrender everything, everything...
Charnanand:It is so simple, so blissful...

This went on for about an hour...the woman was completely amused, befuddled and freaked out at the same time...
She was incredulous that anyone could fall for such claptrap!

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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 18:22:35 (GMT)
From: reader
Email: None
To: ex
Subject: Yes, I too miss Mata Ji
Message:

That was the best. Hey,what does nt mean I see it occasionally.
Thanx
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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 18:54:14 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: reader
Subject: NT=No Text (NT)
Message:
Except this forum software insists you put something here:-)
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:46:19 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: ex
Subject: Now, THIS WAS FUNNY(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 13:12:01 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: ex
Subject: **** Brilliant!! Best of ****
Message:
Loved it!

John

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:59:46 (GMT)
From: Roger Berlitz eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: 37 languages and counting
Message:
Satpal say:

Give me your money.

In Divine City all will have toothbrush that self-dispenses toothpaste.

Ass Foot kissing starts in 10 minutes, line forms on right near boxes of envelopes.

While I may be a fascist ego-centric impersonator of God, at least I got the trains to run on time. I promise if elected again I will make the trains stop running into each other.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 14:44:18 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Roger Berlitz eDrek™
Subject: M's site in Hindi
Message:
Anyone speak Hindi? If so, it would be interesting to see what Maharaji's site in Hindi says. I wonder if there are any differences from the English site.
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 15:36:59 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: Loafji@yahoo.com
To: Everyone
Subject: All EV events cancelled
Message:
Is this true ?

Does this mean all video events - or just M's ?

What has happenned ?

Fill me in if anybody knows

Loaf

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 19:38:08 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: The Truth.
Message:
Hi Loaf,

Due to pressure from Ex-premie.org and Forum based activity, Maharaji, harrassed by investigations in three continents, decided to quit the Guru Business while he was ahead. He's closed down all the Elan Vital Offices, cancelled the tours, sold all the cars, jets, etc, and opened a classy Indian restaurant in Santa Monica. Raja Ji is maitre-d'i.

He apologised to all the premies and ex-premies, but explained that the life of Satguru had been the only one he'd known, but after reading the Forum for a couple of weeks, he realised what had been going on, and officially resigned.

He recommended that the premies forget about all that 'Knowledge nonesense' and sort themselves out.

Yeah Loaf, we won.

I guess the forum will be closing down soon, or move onto another subject.

Anth the Soon to Retire.

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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 05:01:45 (GMT)
From: I. Dunno
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: In Your Dreams, baby! (nt)
Message:
I can't see it myself.
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 03:52:03 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: All EV events cancelled?
Message:
I don't think so, there are announcements of upcoming video events. There are no announcements of any events with Mr. Rawat, I don't know what that means.
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 13:05:37 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Thanks to recent exes
Message:
All: I don't have as much net access as I used to, so I've only been reading the forum every few days. I see that there are a number of recent exes who have begun actively participating here. I thank them for their contributions. You all have moved along the discussions we've been having and are providing new and important information that some of us like to save for future use.

I am especially gratified that you have reacted with outrage about Jagdeo's behavior, and the cover up by DLM/EV. The young children (now adults) were sexually victimized by Jagdeo, and then again by Rotwat and Company turning a blind eye to his activities. This is the worst open secret about this cult. They will indeed have to answer for it one day. Susan and Abi and any others who were abused by Jagdeo deserve all the love, support, understanding and outrage we can muster up on their hehalf. Finding where the jerk has been hidden is a part of our task, so thank you for the tips as to his whereabouts. I am vitally interested in any information any of you have about him, if anyone wants to email me instead of discussing information on forum.

Also, it seems that M's budding career as a televangelist had the exact opposite effect -- it has turned the premies into exes! Great work, Rotwat!

Thanks again for being here and keep up the posts!

Marianne

PS to Brian: In my listing in the white pages, it does not mention that I have a Journeys entry. Could you fix that? Many thanks. Getting snowed in down there?

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 21:43:20 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: I second that (e)motion...
Message:
Motion ... seconded.

It takes a lot of courage to post for the first time. Don't let the angry-brigade (we're all going through it, from time to time} put you off.

P.S. Any chance of a screening of LOTU at the Latvian, Marianne?

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 22:44:52 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: I second that (e)motion...
Message:

JHB responded:
As there will be other customers there and my video player isn't working, that would be difficult. You can certainly borrow a copy if you wish.

John.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 20:07:28 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Yus, pliz (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 14:02:01 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: LOTU
Message:
Yes, the second most important part of LOTU, besides showing just what the history of DLM/EV actually is, is that I appear in it for a whole maybe two seconds! Alas, we won't be able to see Marianne in her pristine, ashram, 17 year old glory!

See ya soon, guys!

Marianne

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 05:29:13 (GMT)
From: rupert murdoch
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: donner/book business
Message:
To further clarify the relationship between mike donner and the books: donner, his brother and another book guy (nonpremie) started some book dealings of their own in direct competition with chuck nathan and the amtext boys back in the late 1980's. They tried to get buyers from the college circuit to also buy high school books from public schools. All of this was done through them and the Follett book company, with the donner bro's and friend getting a nice commission off of all the buyers.
Additionally, they figured out that chuck nathan and amtext were getting a huge override off of the buyers which they did not give to the buyers, but kept for amtext. Donner negotiated his own deal with missouri books (similar to amtext)and started to recruit buyers from all over the country, including amtext buyers. Basically he was able to get a good commission off of the buyers, but still give them a lot more for their books than amtext was giving them. It was a sweet deal for everyone-donner made a bundle, and the buyers got higher returns for the books they bought.
This all went sweet for awhile, until chuck nathan found out, and threatened to sue donner's company, for taking the buyers away from amtext. The deal ended, at least for amtext buyers, as they had to go back to amtext.Donner may have kept the deal going with other buyers for awhile, and probably made a bundle before it ended.
Chuck nathan should have learned a valuable lesson then-if you treat your workers like shit, they will abandon you at the first chance of higher wages. I doubt that he ever did...
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 06:18:17 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: rupert murdoch
Subject: donner/book business
Message:
Very interesting and thank you for your post.
I would like to clear up the timeline for all of this. You said,

To further clarify the relationship between mike donner and the books: donner, his brother and another book guy (nonpremie) started some book dealings of their own in direct competition with chuck nathan and the amtext boys back in the late 1980's.

Are you sure it wasn't the late 1970's and not the 80's? As you know by the late 1980's Donner was gone from the premie scene and Amtext had by then become a well established and solidly entrenched company. It would have been very difficult for Donner to take them on.

And a comment on your last paragraph. You wrote,

Chuck nathan should have learned a valuable lesson then-if you treat your workers like shit, they will abandon you at the first chance of higher wages. I doubt that he ever did...

Why would he have learned anything? He got his buyers back, didn't he?
Personally speaking, when I started learning things during the course of my association with Amtext, I learned it was time to leave the cult. And Chuck is still there, one of m's top level pams and a key figure in the development of m's financial empire.
Isn't he now?

You're right. He hasn't learned a thing.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 18:29:18 (GMT)
From: rupie murdoch
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: donner/book business
Message:

rupie murdoch responded:
More to follow on the donner/amtext/book dealings..
Basically, donner started out on his own dealings, not with amtext, but not against amtext either...
A series of circumstances led him to compete with the amtext boys,with a series of legal posturings by both sides that led to a stalemate...
Lots of funny goings on behind the scenes, esp. between chuck nathan and the head of missouri books...

Donner,imo was just being a businessman...he wasn't for or against the amtext/m business, but did get drawn into a struggle with them...
I think he's basically a good guy...
Chuck nathan tried to end up looking like a hero, while those in the know saw it a bit differently...

More to follow....

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 04:41:36 (GMT)
From: rupee murdoch
Email: None
To: joey
Subject: donner/book business
Message:
A short follow up to the donner/book business...

Donner and partners got into the college book business for awhile, but saw other ways to make better money.
They tried to recruit buyers from all over the country to work for the Follett high school book division (El-Hi).
They would be like amtext was to the college buyers-a broker for buyers between them and the company, and they would make a commission off of each buyer.It was a comletely legitimate setup and worked for awhile.
However, during that time they also realized that the main wholesale college book companies (missouri, follett, nebraska etc.) could pay substantially higher prices than they were paying. Donner and partners negotiated a better deal for the independent buyers with the major wholesale companies. They told buyers about it, but didn't try to recruit amtext buyers. They weren't competing with amtext, but I don't think they minded giving them a run for their money either. Anyhow, many buyers learned that they could do much better with the donner deal, and started to switch over in numbers, to get the better book prices. Donner got better prices, passed most of that onto the buyers, and kept a percentage for himself, the same way that amtext does. He kept less for himself, but still managed to make a bundle. The whole deal was good for everyone, until chuck nathan got wind of it. He threatened to sue donner and missouri books, as he had an exclusive deal representing the amtext buyers. Both sides postured legally, and it ended up a stalemate. The donner deal ended, as missouri books was afraid of a major law suit. He made out well for awhile, and then the deal was shut down. He also brokered other book deals, basically trading books etc.

Basically, the following seemed to be true:
Donner and partners were shrewd, aggressive and honest in their dealings.
Amtext and missouri books were cutthroat and secretive.

Most of the buyers are good folks, with a few real assholes thrown in (Brogans etc.).
Chuck Nathan will do anything to keep the revenues coming in and doesn't care one bit for the people who built his company.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 06:09:45 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: rupee murdoch
Subject: Thanks! And some questions
Message:
Ok, I'll add this to my How PAMs retire post in the ***Best***.

I do have some questions, though, and I'm not trying to denigrate Mr. Donner, but did any money go to Maharaji, was Maharaji aware of this, were the buyers told that money was to go to Maharaji? Or was this just a very simple legal business deal that Mike Donner put together and buyers got better prices?

Does the Amtext tell the buyers that a significant portion of the money goes to Maharaji? Or is it only implied? Are there any non-premies working for Amtext?

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 05:08:56 (GMT)
From: Rupee
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: donner/book business
Message:
Joey-just curious-did you ever work at DECA?
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 19:54:50 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Rupee
Subject: donner/book business
Message:

Joey responded:
I have a problem in answering your question. You still haven't answered mine.
When did this Donner challenge to Amtext take place?
Was it the late 80's as you earlier stated? Or was it the late 70's as I suspect, for the reasons I've already referred to?
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 05:14:56 (GMT)
From: Mr David
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji's forgetting manners
Message:
This was just posted on The Great Worldwide Linkup.

'Dear Ones, My sister and I are looking for an old friend. Her name was Mary Dours and she has a son Jedidiah Ryder Dours. We knew Mary & Jed when they lived on Martha's Vineyard in the early 70's. My sister took care of Jed when he was a baby and we would love to contact her. We were told that she was Maharaji's secretary at some point. We have e-mailed their web site but have not gotten any response. If anyone has any information on Mary and how we may contact her we would grately appreciate it. Thank you & many blessings Laura & Sara.'

Well blow me, what a surprise! Maharaji.org never responded to an email. This is the height of bad manners for an organisation which purports to be a charity, to not reply to correspondence. Has anyone ever received a reply to an email to Maharaji?

Any religious organisation worth its salt would have employees or volunteers whose sole job is to reply to letters and emails. This looks bad, Maharaji, to ignore correspondence. It reflects very badly on your organisation. Why, even HRH Queen Elizabeth, responds to all letters and emails posted to her, through her secretaries.

By the way, Brian; could you please increase the length of the title field so people can write titles without shortening them and making them sound odd?

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 12:40:47 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Mr David
Subject: Maharaji's forgetting manners
Message:
Speaking of bad manners, I remember m 'snorting his snot' during a talk he gave in front of thousands of people. By that I mean he inhaled to clear his sinuses, which made a snorting sound.
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 00:27:46 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Can we do this?
Message:
Someone just sent me a picture of our Ottawa community in the mid seventies. I'd like to post it if possible. Is there a way to do this? Anyone into collecting some of these things and building an archive or something?

I'm sure Brian Gaudet's the only one amongst us who looks the same.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 00:57:06 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Can we do this?
Message:
Hi Jim -
We have a scanner. We also have a whole box full of stuff like that which we are keeping for the next webmaster or anyone who wants to act as an official archivist. If you send it to me, I will scan it for you, send you the scan, and send the picture back to you if you'd like to keep it. Otherwise, names and dates on back would be helpful.

Katie

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 01:27:54 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Ms. K
Subject: Can we do this?
Message:
Actually, it was sent in email. So it's already in my computer. What do I do next?

Thanks anyway but we've got a scanner too. How else could Laurie and I started our amateur sex site?:

Early Middle Age Fun

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 02:34:15 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: Wouldn't touch that thing...
Message:
with a ten foot pole even if you paid me!

I assume Jim that your website is actually costing you money.

You can email me the photo and the necessary legal advice regarding getting sued, but I have no scrupples. I am Ruth-less.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 01:05:35 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Oh yeah...duh
Message:
You need to be able to post the scan on a web site and then link to it here. Shouldn't be a problem.
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 00:03:54 (GMT)
From: A question
Email: None
To: Anyone
Subject: Jadeo....
Message:
supposedly left to India when? I saw Jadeo at a program in Canada three years a go, or even less than that.
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 01:13:11 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: A question
Subject: Really?
Message:
Can you recall the details of exactly when you saw him? It would be helpful.
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 03:45:13 (GMT)
From: I saw him
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Really?
Message:
I saw him at a program. I can find out for you exactly when it was. I went few times to Canada to programs, and I need to remember which one it was. I am very certain that was him. I know his face well. We made eye contact and he said hello.
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 07:02:09 (GMT)
From: Jack
Email: None
To: Whom it may concern
Subject: Living in South Africa
Message:
Quite recently an Australian Instructor told me he had seen Jagdeo about two or three years ago at a programme in South Africa where Jagdeo was then and probably still is living, Durban I think. Another person said she had talked to him and also thought he was living in South Africa. I gave Anthony the details a while back.

Jack

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 16:27:55 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: Jack
Subject: It's that Paedophile again.
Message:
Hi Jack,

I remember being told that Jagdeo was in South Africa. I was also contacted by another person who told me he was in an Ashram in Delhi.

The important thing about this is that Elan Vital have never volunteered the information about his whereabouts. They've always claimed that they are willing to co-operate with any police investigation, but claim that the police have never contacted them.

This is also apparently the reason a second British newspaper dropped the story of Jagdeo's child abuse activities while a full time cult official, using his role as a way of abusing children.

Anyway, as someone who has been interviewed by the police, both in person, and over the telephone, relating to the case, I am in no doubt that the investigation is continuing. I was contacted quite recently again, unprompted, by one of the officers.

So, I imagine in the not too distant future, the police will eventually phone up my old friend Glen, and ask him what the dirty, child abusing scumbag Jagdeo is up to.

Until then Jack, watch this space.

Anth the Angry.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 07:06:41 (GMT)
From: Jack
Email: None
To: Whom it may concern
Subject: Living in South Africa
Message:
I'm now thinking that it was Johannesburg. One or the other. Perhaps the police could do a search.

Jack

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 03:49:03 (GMT)
From: to Susan
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Really?
Message:
Do you participate in the only exes forum? If you do we can talk there.
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 04:34:21 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: to Susan
Subject: Really?
Message:
The only ex's or the recent ex's? Since I am a long time ex I never joined the recent ex's. But if they will allow me I will to hear what you have to say. Or you may mean the Sir Dave only ex's site? Whichever one is fine with me.
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 04:57:35 (GMT)
From: let me see
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: I get back with you
Message:
Let me talk with Katie. Do you exchange email with her?
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 05:13:54 (GMT)
From: to susan
Email: None
To: susan
Subject: Jagdeo
Message:
Didn't get an answer from Katie. Is kind of late. But yes, I am completly sure that it was him, because after that program some premies were commenting during dinner on people they did not see for long, and Jagdeo was mentioned. When I read about what he did to you, I did not put attention in dates, but today, reading bellow, I thought of asking my original question.

I am a new ex and cannot tell you my name, but we can continue talking about it. I was refering to the Recent exes forum, because I go there. I can feel more comfortable talking there.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:04:14 (GMT)
From: Nina
Email: None
To: to susan
Subject: WHERE IS THE RECENT EX'S Forum
Message:
URL???
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 19:19:08 (GMT)
From: RE FA
Email: None
To: Nina
Subject: RECENT EX'S Info
Message:
RE is password protected. If you're interested, send us an email:

recentexes@yahoo.com

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:39:37 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Nina
Subject: try this
Message:
Dear Nina,

I do not know the URL to it. If you email the administrator of ex-premie.org they can give it to you. It is password protected and not open to everyone. I have never seen it. It is for people who are dealing with issues of just leaving the cult. Whereas an old timer like myself can get insulted by premies and argue with them without it being very upsetting, a recent ex may feel a need for a safe harbor. Also, a recent ex may need to be able to express feelings of doubt and loss that sometimes are made fun of by ex's here who cannot really remember how scary it was to leave the cult and how it may not have been such an easy decision at the time.

But if you are a recent ex and want to join email them. I do not know how they decide who to give access or not.

Susan

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 18:40:48 (GMT)
From: Eddythehootle
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Susan..
Message:
I feel for u. I hope this terrible experience did not affect you in your life and your relationships.......so sorry it happened to you...
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 18:43:49 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Eddythehootle
Subject: Dear Eddy
Message:
Thank you. I do not see myself in a victim role at all. I see myself as doing very well and I have a very good life. I just think it is important to tell the truth about all of this. If we don't, us ex's, no one ever will.
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:42:40 (GMT)
From: Jim Heller
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Susan
Subject: Don't buy it myself
Message:

Jim Heller responded:
Susan,

I think the whole notion of ex-premie as preemie is a little questionable, to say the least.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 18:40:54 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim Heller
Subject: Am I dense or...
Message:
are you trying to say that I made a spelling error?

I don't see it. So are you trying to say that recent ex's should not be treated as 'preemies' like they are small and vulnerable?

I actually know a little about preemies as well as premies. It could be an intersting comparison.

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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 02:32:07 (GMT)
From: Jim Heller
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Susan
Subject: No, you're not dense, you're j
Message:
You're j, aren't you?

(Okay, that's getting a little old)

Susan,

I have a hard time thinking of recent exes as fragile. It's not as if they've lived in another world untainted by doubt. They've been mulling over their doubts, just like all premies, for years. Finally, enough's enough and they throw in the towel. It's a time of relief. No need for incubation.

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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 16:06:51 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim Heller
Subject: I was incredibly fragile...
Message:
in fact I was a basket case when I left. I think the proccess of leaving is different for different people. I had not been mulling it over, at least conciously, very long. And even though when I left I never called myself a premie again, in hindsight I can see that it took many years before I really shed most remnant of the cult.

I do think, if there had been a forum like this when I had left, it would have changed my life. I needed friends who understood where I was at more than anything. I sort of boomeranged back into the cult, but in a new role as a fringe ex person, but still even went to some festivals with my ex husband. I really think if there had been a forum like this I might have been able you make better decisions for my future. I think it is powerful. But I am pretty certain I would have loved your posts from day one. I have always enjoyed that kind of wit. But, I can see how many don't, and I have seen you be too harsh on people. But yes, they are fragile, I am sure of that. Much more fragile than we are who have discovered, with certainty, that we will not burst into flames because we laugh at Drek's booby guru pic.

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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 15:34:56 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jim Heller
Subject: do I dare....
Message:
Write to you? Hi Jim old buddy.

I was the opposite at first. Mad as hell and quite willing to post here (after I got over reading some of your stuff :) )
and answer and take any shit that came my way. But I think I may have been the exception. I've seen a lot of people be scared off since I've been around. A few have come back eventually but I can't see how it really hurts to have the other forum. I against it at first only because it seemed the forums were multiplying out of control but that didn't happen so other than that I can't see any harm and do see some good.

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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 17:08:25 (GMT)
From: Jim Heller
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Selene
Subject: do I dare....
Message:
Selene,

In the grand scheme of things, the existence of the other forum doesn't matter so much. What I'm opposed to is the suggestion that ex's are so fragile that they can't handle the casual rough and tumble of this board. I mean, we're all adults and strangers to doubt none. When kid's told that Santa's fake it could indeed come as a complete shock. But all premies know that, at minimum, they could be riding a fake horse. It should be a relief to finally dismount and kick the thing over.

And that secrecy thing?

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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 18:16:50 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jim Heller
Subject: do I dare....
Message:
yeah. secrecy is strange. But I don't see it as secrecy so much as more a place where people who wouldn't otherwise feel confident enough to post can do so.
I *know* it's hard for someone like you to understand that because you have no problem speaking up.
It's a tough one. I have had bouts of regret for not being anonymous. And especially for revaling where I live and work. Then at other times I have almost been glad about it and thought 'good, the premies I know need to hear it'

Me, always on the fence as a premie first, now as an ex! I mean, I feel that I tend to intimidate people there myself! But I do like the idea of it existing.

Guess I'm getting less angry. Isn't that a good thing?

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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 18:31:45 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: aarrgggh i don't mean!!
Message:
not 'on the fence ' as in thinking of being a premie again!
never never ever ever ever!! Just lightening up a bit that's all
must be the new meds.
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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 15:01:13 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Jim Heller
Subject: How long would you say the pro
Message:
How long would you say the process takes, Jim? a matter of seconds, then they're a hard-boiled anti-guru?
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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 17:09:35 (GMT)
From: Jim Heller
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: cqg
Subject: About three minutes (nt)
Message:
dd
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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 17:51:12 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Jim Heller
Subject: What was the last straw ?
Message:
Just out of interest, what was the last straw for you, Jim?

And what enabled you to put - however many years it was - of investment in the Maha's trip behind you all at once?

Please tell.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 05:27:45 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: recent ex
Subject: Jagdeo
Message:
Katie knows me very well. In fact she sent me the nicest card for the holidays and I have not replied because I wanted to take the time to do it by snail mail. Thank you so much for the information though. Katie has my email too so maybe we can get in touch that way as well. I am suprised that you saw him so recently. I had the impression he had gone into hiding longer ago than that.
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 06:50:20 (GMT)
From: to Susan
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Jagdeo
Message:
I want to give you later the exact date of the program when I saw him: I can't remember right now, but I have ways of finding out. I rented a car to go there = credit card bills. I notice that you come here in a regular basis, right?

I take this opportunity to tell you that I feel sorry that such a thing happened to you. I hope you are okay today. I haven't read all posts: Too many, not enough time. I wish you the best.
Let's communicate soon.

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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 20:18:50 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: seang2@earthlink.net
To: Everyone
Subject: Message to Premies
Message:
An old Phil Ochs song:
>
There's no place in this world where I'll belong when I'm gone
And I won't know the right from the wrong when I'm gone
And you won't find me singing on this song when I'm gone
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm HERE

And I won't feel the flowing of the time when I'm gone
All the pleasures of love will not be mine when I'm gone
My pen won't pour a lyric line when I'm gone
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm HERE

And I won't breathe the brandy air when I'm gone
And I can't even worry about my cares when I'm gone
Won't be asked to do my share when I'm gone
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm HERE

And I won't be running from the rain when I'm gone
And I can't even suffer from the pain when I'm gone
There's nothing I can lose or I can gain when I'm gone
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm HERE

Won't see the golden of the sun when I'm gone
And the evenings and the mornings will be one when I'm gone
Can't be singing louder than the guns when I'm gone
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm HERE

All my days won't be dances of delight when I'm gone
And the sands will be shifting from my sight when I'm gone
Can't add my name unto the fight when I'm gone
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm HERE

And I won't be laughing at the LIES when I'm gone
And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone
Can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm HERE
>

No matter what you believe, life is short. Snap out of it .
And to you Maharaj ji-Fuck you.

Sean

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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 23:01:56 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Sean
Subject: Message to Premies
Message:
But Sean
That is the EXACT argument they will give YOU for why
they follow M. I know. I heard it over and over. That is it.
word for word. Isn't it ironic?
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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 23:57:43 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: seang2@earthlink.net
To: Selene
Subject: Message to Premies
Message:
Only they are wrapped up in pictures in their minds, Pictures fed to them by others. They're not even here. Of course, they think they are, but they're always trying to escape from life. Looking elsewhere for their salvation. Salvation from what? Life?
They make me think of someone running around in a forest with a piece of bark saying 'A tree, a tree. I found a tree. Look at this tree!' They're so busy running around with the bark, they don't even see the forest.
BTW-I think Phil was thinking of Che Guevara when he wrote that.
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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 19:33:36 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Funnier than the Onion!
Message:
Check out this page:

http://www.manavdharam.org/news/shrdji.html

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 18:01:44 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Jim
Subject: Button your lip, Heller!!!
Message:
You're going too far this time. Mock Prem Pal if you wish but leave off Satpal's son, because we're talking here about

The next Lord of The Universe

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 22:55:37 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: It's a love fest
Message:
David:

You are clearly missing the point. All is forgiven, and all the hatchets have been buried in their proper places. Did you not see that the ENTIRE holy family will be present? All the mamas and the papas, the kiddies, the ex-communicated brothers, the old poops, the young poops... EVERYBODY. So just tone down your cynicism, OK?

Give peace a chance.

-Scott 'How come they didn't capitalize 'holy?' T.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:20:45 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Button your lip, Heller!!!
Message:

Jim responded:
Then give me the devil, cause this kid's just too ugly for me. I'm sorry. I jsut can't do it. I'm not going to kiss his feet. I'm not. So you can forget about ever bringing it up again. I'm not going to do it, okay?
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 01:16:54 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It's big, it's gigantic, it's
Message:
Look now; Son of Satpal might just look like the son of Mr Patel who owns the corner shop, yes. He might just look like an average Asian kid who hides his girlie mags under his mattress, but what you don't realise is that he is a spiritual luminary.

And Roger's right. I'm going to prepare a path for this great luminessence. I know which side my bread is buttered (low fat spreaded actually).

OK, I blew it with the other two Lords of the Universe but I'm older and wiser now. He'll need well spoken, English contacts to promote himself in the West. He'll need street-wise older devotees to make his mission a success in the lands of maya. He'll need careful guidance from one who knows the ways of the world. And he'll need the best looking chicks.

I'm his man, Jim. This is the big one. Son of Satpal, here I come!

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 20:26:17 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: Sir Dave is a Satpal Jr. Plant
Message:
History has the surprising habit of repeating itself.

Sir Dave is making sure that he doesn't miss the Gravy Train the next time some pimply faced overweight kid guru comes out of India at the next revival of Eastern spiritualism making it big in the West time-slot window. It opens and then it closes. Some get in and make it big. Others end up with getting their fingers smashed.

Sir Dave has already formed important alliances with Son of Satpal and Mata-Son-of-Satpal. Sir Dave knows that as long as the Boy Guru is a minor that one needs to work everything through Mama Bear. Sir Dave is already saving his shillings to purchase the requisite Mercedes Benz for Mama Bear.

Sir Dave is busy working quietly on the side with investors and inventors to ensure that Son of Satpal will be able to proudly tell the world where his wealth really comes from.

Sir Dave is spending enormous sums of money getting Son of Satpal trained in the next generation of aerospace technology to allow Son of Satpal to get the jump on Guru Shriness Daya Ji, the obvious heir apparent and the competition.

Guru Daya Ji-Ji might be able to sing and she looks really good in a low cut gown or her father's, not her mother's, but her father's mala, but, more importantly, can she fly a Mach 2.1 figher jet or a Harrier jet to be able to set a new Guiness World's Record for darshans in a twenty four hour period? Hardly! Her only chance is to sell more music CD's and her 'unique' videos of her own Holiday Inn lounge lizard act.

Sir Dave, shall I send you my resume?

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 17:34:14 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You're right...
Message:
Jim: I just saw it and it is funny. I have to ask, why do Hindus insist on singing 'curtains' at birthday parties? I think a flying carpet would be better..... he he he :-)
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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 21:51:50 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Jim
Subject: Come on, guys!
Message:
Really, fellas, this is a special moment. Humour me for a second. Below are two links. Please check them both out and tell me which is funnier.

The first is to a fake on-line (and off) newspaper called The Onion. If you like any of it read through the archives which, for me anyway, are often so, so clever:

The Onion

The second is to a page on Maharaji's brother, Satpal's, recently updated site:

Stranger than Fiction

This is like a dream, isn't it? Or a Tom Robbins book, or Kurt Vonnegut or something. Here's this gangly little teenager, yes an ugly little boy at that (hey, if they're touting 'spiritual luminary' I'm entitled to comment on the lampshade). How old do you think he is? What was his father doing at that same age? Stomping for his baby brother as Lord of the Universe?

My Lord, this is funny!

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 18:41:11 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Am I going to far with this?
Message:
Just went over to Satpal's site and noticed his organization is actually involved in what they tout as significant 'social action' projects. For example:

***************************

Shri Satpal Maharaj presented a Cheque of Rupees one lac to Sonia Gandhi for the help and rehabilitation of the victims of cyclone in Orissa at her residence, 10 Janpath, New Delhi. He made an appeal to all voluntary organisations.. Read More
***************************
Manav Utthan Sewa Samiti, has launched a massive relief programme in the worst cyclone-hit areas of Orissa. Inspired by Shri Satpal Maharaj, the Samiti has started distributing relief materials like rice, cereals, clothing. Read More

***************************

Now I don't know how much one lac of rupees is worth in American currency, but it seems to me, that if Satpal and his followers are involved in projects that bring REAL relief to those very much in need, perhaps we shouldn't scoff at him too much.
After all, hasn't m ridiculed exactly these kind of projects in the past, contemptuosly labelling those who would want to make such a social contribution, 'the good deed doers of the world'?

OK, so Satpal is still caught in the trap of calling himself a 'spiritual personality'. But with these actions, isn't he at least demonstrating SOME virtue, and in a manner that his baby brother has failed miserably at?

Just a thought, and I'm wondering...whaddya guys think?

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 01:57:15 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Joey
Subject: Am I going to far with this?
Message:
No, I wouldn't say you're going too far with this. Satpal is well within the religious tradition of Hinduism. He's more mainstream Hindu than Maharaji. While I don't agree with most of Hinduism and its philosophy, it is one of the World's main religions and the leaders within that religion are not all bad. The same goes for Chistianity, Judaism, Islam and all the rest.

I'd say Satpal was a shrewd, religious politician. He knows how to do the right things which will be well received and applauded by society. A good leader will always be able to do this; generate good PR to both followers and the general public.

Maharaji's failure to marry public PR with sustaining a following has been his undoing. He has chosen the clandestine, undercover approach. More on the lines of a Mafiosa, Costa Nostra organisation. It's bound to fail.

Satpal's ability to maintain a high public profile while also having a large number of followers has been a recipe for success. He will never have the kind of opposition that Prem Pal has had.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 02:54:48 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Sir Dave
Subject: but who's worth more $
Message:
We know that Maharaji is worth a bundle. Well, maybe he himself personally owns nothing, but his personal access to wealth. I'd guess that Maharaji is in the $30 to $50 million dollar range.

What about SatPal? Politicians salaries are often puny. Yet, there are the bribes and kickbacks and the after-office personal appearances. Christ, Ronald Reagan got $2 million for appearing in a Japanese commercial after he left office. Now, that's acting!

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 12:55:27 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: but who's worth more $
Message:
Satpal's guru business is more honest and open. He is divine and so is his son. The whole family is divine and make no pretence to be otherwise. They are worthy of adoration. Their presence is called darshan and it's OK to bow down before them and touch their feet.

It's a totally acceptable organisation within Hindu culture and it will continue to prosper for years to come. Whereas Prem Pal's thing is all over the place. He changes it all the time because he can't decide on the best format. One year he's the supreme being, another year he's just an ordinary bloke. There's much there to get confused about.

In ten years time, which of the two brothers will still be in business? I think Satpal and Son of Satpal will still be going strong, whereas Prem Pal will be retired with only his web site left.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:18:15 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Joey
Subject: At the risk of calling you a
Message:
'plant', Joey -- a Satpal plant, perhaps -- (and what the fuck's with those short subject lines, Brian or whoever? A person should at least be able to write At the risk of calling you a 'plant' there. How can we talk to each other if we can't say that? Or how about I am hereby calling you a 'plant'! NT. I don't think there's enough space there for that either.

Joey, you miss the point. The point is that the House of Rawat is presenting yet another line of Divine Accessories and this one's just as butt-ugly as the last. The kid's ugly, Joey. UGLY! When are we going to get a decent lineage happening?

I guess it's all Mata Ji' fault. Prempal and Mobpal took matters into their own hands and got some good-looking womyn to breed with. (Yes, I know what bb thinks about Mobpal's first born and who her real father is but then bb was also one of the Y2K guys, wasn't he? Come to think of it, .... no, that's ridiculous.)

Anyway, Joey, Maharaji's refusal to get into the public-service church mode has always interested me more as a sign of his confusion and lack of direction (he did start DUO after all, not to mention WPC, WWA, etc.)than anything else.

Satpal's good works are interesting only so much as they show one of the ways guru's play the game. It's still a game, though.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:56:31 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: At the risk of calling you a
Message:
At the risk of calling you a
'plant', Joey -- a Satpal plant, perhaps

Funny, I was actually thinking of signing my post...

Joey,
The Satpal plant

except that when it comes to plants, I consider myself to be much more of a Wandering Jew :::))

No, I don't see the major point in your post to me as being how 'ugly the kid (Satpal's son) is,' and sorry, I really can't tell if you're joking here or not.

Regardless I found the final statement in your post meaningful in terms of answering my question. You wrote,

Satpal's good works are interesting only so much as they show one of the ways guru's play the game. It's still a game, though.

I wish you would have dwelled on that a bit more.
More specifically, if Satpal is placing a major emphasis for his movement or organization to be involved in significant social action projects, why would you then find his 'game', so contemptible.
At the risk of calling YOU a 'Maharaji plant', do you agree with m's statements that have implied there's no point in being just another 'good deed doer'?

Looking forward to your response.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 20:16:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Joey
Subject: At the risk of calling you a
Message:

Jim responded:
Ugliness is never funny.

But, sure, Satpal's good works are better than bad ones and I'm sure any of his beneficiaries would agree. But I just don't like the way religious groups, Christian churches particularly, glom on to good works to justify their existence. The churches work that dependency, just like I'm sure Satpal's done. It's so transparent, isn't it? So does he deserve credit for doing all this? Yeah, I guess some, but it's very measured credit. Measured and watchful.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 20:49:04 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: At the risk of calling you a
Message:
Jim responded:
Ugliness is never funny.
But, sure, Satpal's good works are better than bad ones and I'm sure any of his beneficiaries would agree. But I just don't like the way religious groups, Christian churches particularly, glom on to good works to justify their existence. The churches work that dependency, just like I'm sure Satpal's done. It's so transparent, isn't it? So does he deserve credit for doing all this? Yeah, I guess some, but it's very measured credit. Measured and watchful.
(emphasis my own)

Now this is an answer worth thinking about. Thanks.
Talking of 'measured', I just did a search and found out that one lac of rupees (100,000 rupees), at today's currency exchange rates is worth about $2,400 in US greenbacks.
Of course as we know for MJ, $2,400(US) doesn't even amount to coffee money. I suspect that while Satpal has considerably less available finances than his baby brother, $2,400 would still amount to chump change. Definitely worth the publicity alone.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 20:08:08 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: seang2@earthlink.net
To: Joey
Subject: At the risk of calling you a
Message:
There's good deeds and there's good deeds. Queen Victoria gave about 3,000 pounds to Irish famine relief, course she gave 5,000 to the retirement fund for racehorses. Anybody can give a check and get their picture made. Is there any depth to it?
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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 22:03:09 (GMT)
From: Bouncing Betty
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Come on, guys!
Message:
Shri Shadhey Ji sounds like a Hindi prep school boy's name (you know, where a last name is used for the first name). Now say in lockjaw: 'Oh, Shadhey, that is simply deliiightful; join me in a cocktail, it's after 10 a.m.'

Also, I'm jealous--I don't think I've ever been 'felicitated.' Is that Hindi for fellatio?

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 06:33:02 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Bouncing Betty and Jim
Subject: Come on, guys!
Message:
You two are hilarious.

I liked the Horoscopes in the Onion, even though the one for Scorpio wasn't that clever. But I have to confess that the birthday link was funnier in kind of a 'you had to be there' way.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:44:01 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: VP
Subject: Exactly, Veep
Message:
Yes, I agree, the birthday's funnier. I just wish I could have been there. Can you imagine? What would Satpal tell his kid about Millenium, I wonder? Comet Kahoutek? HelLOOOO!
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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 22:01:09 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Come on, guys!
Message:
Okay... I liked the Onion but the Sat pal Ji Jr. wins. He needs to consult Rawat's airbrush artist though. Looks like his pop with a bigger nose.
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 00:20:09 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Susan
Subject: What a book!
Message:
Susan,

I've said this before but I think the funniest novel would be along the lines of, say, Satpal really in fact being the Lord of the Universe. You know, mom was right, they'd all been wrong and Prempal was an unintentional mere pretender. Then, think of it. This kid here, spiritual luminary as he is, could be the real Saviour of Mankind. Maharaji was a precursor.

Re-rent the Astrodome, invite Clinton. If lounge music can come back so can the House of Rawat.

Anyway, imagine a book wherein all of this was actually true? Wouldn't that be something?

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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 18:52:44 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Rawat in disguise?
Message:
I'm new to this web site. Has Rawat ever been suspected of posting here to lead the discussion a particular way?
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 07:29:06 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: quasi-premie
Message:

Runamok responded:
Somebody who posted as quasi-premie (and numerous variations thereof (qp, etc.) is the only candidate I have. He spammed the place, sending hundreds of posts for maybe 12 hours, and incredible number of posts just completely blocking anyone from having meaningful discussion. People said he traced back to Malibu, but I never heard if that was a fact or not.
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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 21:57:46 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Rawat's in disgrace here!
Message:
Everyone's wild here, and free ...... from Rawat!

I don't think he would even consider looking at what's going on here. We're swimming in a sewage here, and he doesn't even want to look at this. Undoubtedly there are PAMs making reports from here, but I can't imagine any of them daring repeat what we say about him!

I bet none of them dares.

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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 22:04:48 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Rawat's in disgrace here!
Message:
Yes, I have this image of a PAM coming to Rawat with the 'topless mala' pic from the Drek site. 'This, Lord, is what they are saying about you' never happen. They must edit the more distasteful stuff out. And of course, the distasteful stuff helps them to rationalize away what we say.
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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 22:03:22 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Rawat's in disgrace here!
Message:
Do you really think so, JM? I'll bet he does read here. Of course, nothing penetrates his thick skull--how could he go on otherwise.

BTW, what's been happening with the cult? Those fire sale brochures I got from Visions would indicate a decline in the coffers. Is the cult shrinking even more in the west? Any new cult meetings scheduled?

I'll tune in on Monday to find out.

Love,

Gail

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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 22:10:56 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: Rawat's in disgrace here!
Message:
How can you be sure. I remember him saying that sort of stuff. But he's such a liar also.

I think he's quite fragile in a way, when confronted to 'this world'. Don't forget we're his 'enemies'.

Who kn,ows where he's at these days.

I've just got some news today from premiedom. Everything's cancelled ('events'). Premies are sad and freaking out.

Options are: lack of money, or he's depressed, or Monica left, or problems with his family, or IRS after him, or G4 unavailable, or mess in DLM ....

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 05:05:05 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Your info, as usual, is absurd
Message:
'I've just got some news today from premiedom. Everything's
cancelled ('events'). Premies are sad and freaking out.'

Sorry JM, hate to spoil your small-minded fantasy but that's quite the load of speculative, negatively hopeful horseshit.

Nothing's cancelled, Maharaji seems very happy and the people I know were quite strongly inspired by the satellite broadcast, in which he seemed anything but 'depressed.'

You really believe that if you keep repeating 'facts' that you and others here have concocted all on their own, enough times, that they somehow magically become true? In the areas of M's state of mind, motivation, activities and interest in dwelling where YOU'RE stuck, you're, ohh...about 180 degrees off. The speculations about the $ and the satellites, the grade-school level insults etc., paint a far more accurate picture of YOU then of him. You really have no idea what and who you're talking about at this point. He's a made-up character to you now.

I haven't been here in a while, and the proportion of pure (straining the boundaries of the word) imagination to anything REMOTELY resembling reality has climbed drastically.

Not to mention the wonderful vibes splattered all over this list. This is supposed to be an example of the great benefits of trashing M. For those who might be saying, 'Yeah, but at least we get to say what we want,' take a long look at what you're broadcasting. There's a reason that not everyone is a teacher or master in any subject. This page makes that abundantly clear. Yes, everyone has the right to play the saxophone. That doesn't make you John Coltrane, bud. You aren't even (shudder) Kenny G. But the net gives you a place to make your god-awful squawking noises.

There's no music coming out of here.

Enjoy your weird, destructive hopes and fantasies. They have nothing to do with the reality. Maybe you can at least exorcise your cooties on this subject and move on to something more fun and constructive. The fact that your discussions degenerate to name-calling and insults with each other, let alone premies, so rapidly should tell you something.

'Til then, I just thought SOMEONE should mention, in the interests of free flow of information, that MOST (an extraordinarily high %) of what's written on this list right now is either flat-out false, wildly exaggerated or invented from the thinnest shreds of long-distance, passed-along gossip. Have you considered starting a column reviewing movies you haven't seen?

The rest are either insults or invitations to go out drinking. I'd suggest going for the drink.

Good luck, JB

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 04:41:42 (GMT)
From: Sorry!
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: Your info is absurd
Message:
We know that song, we used to sing it. Convince yourself a little longer, and you'll end up talking to your image of a real mirror: Your Guru maybe gone. he will not need your $$anymore. I felt like puking reading your post, but well, I understand. It takes a real human being to recognize that maybe, just maybe, you can be wrong. There you are, defending the one that have tied you down, for his own convinience. All sounds good in his world, but it ain't true.

I hope you can find out the truth before you depart. He is fake. Put your devotion aside and read, or hear the stupidity he talks about. See? We exes can do that today. We can listen to him without the filters of devotion, and we can't help, but we laugh. Take the man straight, and you have a paranoid idiot who still thinks is God. He's your enemy, but you cannot see it. Good luck to you! You are going to need it.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 20:41:34 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: Thanks for that Ignorant Post
Message:
You know, it's really interesting that, on the one hand, you trash people for questioning M's motives, and in the same breath question the motives of everyone who posts here. It makes you sound very ignorant.

And what EXACTLY that gets posted here is 'flat out false' and who the fuck are you to know that it's 'false?'

It is the wontof those, like you, who can't defend their position to make those kinds of sweeping generalities while at the same time presenting not one shread of evidence on the other side.

Oh, and by the way, the fact that Maharaji and the cult sites don't allow open discussion and engage in rampant censorship DOES say a helluva lot, maybe not to you, but to any thinking person it does.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:52:02 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: Your info, as usual, is absurd
Message:
you know JB if I didn't have distinct and very recent clear memories of awful terrible very ugly last days of prmiedom, I'd almost be inclined to agree, just based on reading the squabbles that have gone on here.

But you see that isn't it. YOU have it wrong. Sure there are some people who are very angry at each other, at the moment. Or were. I think some of it has already changed actually. Which is what is so good about being able to voice it.
They did - they didn't smile and pretend to be in some false nirvana and so it came out and yes it was ugly or at best boring.

I find this preferable to choking on it and holding on til the next event, oh I mean broadcast.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 21:13:03 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Selene
Subject: JB, JW, Selene - ***BEST***
Message:
***Best***

Of course, this is a pet topic of mine...

Nevertheless, JB, Mr. Move-On-Get-A-Life in his previous incarnations, does, indeed post one ignorant post. Hell, all his posts are the exact same arrogant revisionist crap. I suspect we might know JB as some other more permanent premie character, but one can never tell about these things.

And even if I am the biggest asshole in these parts and Ms. Selene and I have not always seen eye to eye, her post is, IMO, a very accurate real world description of how problems are dealt with or should that really be not dealt with in Maharaji's World of Knowledge.

Yes, we have no bananas today. Nor do we have any problems, either.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 00:03:14 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: JB, JW, Selene - ***BEST***
Message:
That's Mistress Selene to you Roger. Oh wait. Where am I?
This is Hell/AG no??
Where are my meds Ger?? I told you to keep them here by my
computer!!
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 01:09:18 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Selene
Subject: JB, JW, Selene - ***BEST***
Message:
That's right, Selene. We're not in Kansas Hell anymore.

No, as much as I'm despised and I feel that my righteous anger gives me the carte blanche to be an even bigger asshole I still have to acknowledge good and poignant posts.

Hell, William Randolph Hearst, Rupert Murdoch, and Mike Wallace are dispicable people, but they still have the need to make a buck, don't they?

Yeah, you got any meds to spare? I've got Bobby and Timmy doing some work on my car out in the alley. The Chevy dealer's book said it's a 1.1 hour job. We're into hour three and I've allowed them a kludge short-cut to avoid getting into the part of the job that might require a special tool from the manufacturer. Oh, well, what the fuck. This car is only twenty years old, but it is the most significant and important asset that I own. And, let's not forget that I've got to eventually get to Thousand Oaks, California for my new job in a few months after first stopping off in Silcon Valley for advanced training.

Anyone have any suggestions as to which first class hotel I should stay at while in Palo Alto for a couple of months?

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 01:34:34 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: JB, JW, Selene - ***BEST***
Message:
Oh my
you are going places I am so confused about.
I need Gerry where is he?
When I told you
call me Mistress Selene I know you know that I was

Just Kidding the way you and I do Rog. .....

I agree with your sentiments about JB and the M thing

NOW my friend, I am tired - my husband is trying to discuss the
stupor ball to me and I haven't a clue, never did.
I remember dearly a Super Bowl Anaheim Hotel booking that was booked at the same time as a Miregy Event. I remember how very very sleazy the men were. They had a wet bar ( ha) set up in the hotel lobby at 9 am! I could have made a lot of money in my past life. But ... I was a premie for premies sake!!!!

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 17:39:59 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: M ALWAYS WAS....
Message:
a 'made-up character,' JB. We've just come to realize that his slick, pre-packaged, pseudo-hindu trip is just the workings of a propaganda machine that he owns and operates at YOUR expense!
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:49:17 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Mike
Subject: JB ALWAYS WAS....
Message:
a 'made-up character'

Indeed, JB is a 'made-up character.' I am all to familiar with this guy's tone. Same guy, new name. On a mission.

JB, Mr. Move-On-Get-A-Life, sounds like our Elan Vital propagandist who always seems to drop in at the most appropriate times to relay his pre-recorded and very 'unique' message which usually is:

Move on. Get a life.

Not to mention the wonderful vibes splattered all over this list. This is supposed to be an example of the great benefits of trashing M. For those who might be saying, 'Yeah, but at least we get to say what we want,' take a long look at what you're broadcasting. There's a reason that not everyone is a teacher or master in any subject. This page makes that abundantly clear.

Sure, JB, Mr. Move-On-Get-A-Life, you've got us nailed and I'm guilty as charged. They're brewing up the hemlock tea as we speak.

'Yeah, but at least we get to say what we want,' Yes, it's true! And sometimes because we have that right and that freedom here it can get ugly. The alternative is Maharaji's World of Knowledge where premies have never had the right or the freedom to say anything at all that did not fit into what Maharaji wanted to hear or what Maharaji wanted them to say.

In fact, it would appear that as time marches on in Maharaji's World of Knowledge the premies are being removed from the process.

  • First, Premies no longer gave satsang
  • Instructors and Instructor Candidates gave satsang
  • With videos no one other than Maharaji gave satsang at all and everyone was told to say as little as possible
  • With Satellite Broadcasts there isn't even the need to tell premies to keep their mouths shut at local video events because local video events will be a thing of the past

And I'm not even going to mention Maharaji's websites and EnjoyingLife because there is absolutely nothing allowed that does not follow the company line.

And, BJ, where is the chatroom that EnjoyingLife promised? The technology doesn't exist? Come on, man, you and I both know why there isn't a chatroom for premies. Oh, there's been a few private ones, but lame doesn't even come close to best describing the content. Sure, no ugly splatters of blood on the walls, but really!

Yes, the vibes can get funky here, but at least we are allowed to have vibes. In your world nothing is allowed. Don't even think about asking Maharaji to account for the Fakiranand or Jagdeo or any other problems in his world.

Did you ever see the Lord of the Universe documentary that has the scene in Houston during the 1973 Millennium program and Maharaji is being questioned by the Press about Fakiranand. Maharaji's Press Spokesman gets in there and desperately attempts to detour that line of questioning right out of town. The press persists and insists and brat Maharaji, who is really looking quite annoyed answers with:

'Yes, you should find out about that.'

God, I wonder what he meant by that? Was Maharaji actually challenging the press to really get to the bottom of the Fakiranand criminal assault on reporter Pat Halley.

Was Maharaji perhaps verbalizing his fantasy of having the annoying and overly persistent reporter finding out, in a very personal way, exactly what had happened to Pat Halley?

Speaking of blood splattered on the walls!

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 21:23:14 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Common baby, light my fire!
Message:
Did you ever see the Lord of the Universe documentary that has the scene in Houston during the 1973 Millennium program and Maharaji is being questioned by the Press about Fakiranand. Maharaji's Press Spokesman gets in there and desperately attempts to detour that line of questioning right out of town. The press persists and insists and brat Maharaji, who is really looking quite annoyed answers with:

'Yes, you should find out about that.'

With that point I'd like to repost an edited version of something I wrote during my 'Nim' days that is now in the House of Drek. Its really only the title I've changed significantly. I like this one much more than the one Rodge came up with (no offence Rodge).

*******************************

DID MJ SET A FIRE UNDER FAKIRANAND'S ASS?

As told to me by Ann Johnston.
That day when MJ was pied by Pat Halley, there was a press conference scheduled at the ashram following the reception where he was going to receive his civic award or key to the city.
Ann had been busy preparing these hand made signs that said 'press' on them to be placed on the back of the chairs for the media people and one 'special' sign for MJ's chair that of course said 'Guru Maharaj Ji ' on it.
Now the people in the ashram who had been waiting
for MJ to return from the reception had heard about him being pied, even before he returned home.
According to Ann, Fakiranand upon hearing the news 'cowered in a corner of the room like a little boy...and began trembling.'
Then MJ returned. According to Ann he was totally enraged. He stormed into the ashram and upon noticing the signs Ann had made for the chairs saying 'press', he proceeded to rip them all off, and shouted out 'No more Media!'
MJ then noticedFakiranand cowering in the corner of the room, and according to Ann, he spoke the following words to him:
'I don't want you to hurt this man'
End of story. You guys of course know the rest.
But the thing I want to share with you is this.
When Ann told me this story(in 1996) I had this 'gut' feeling that there was something wrong with it. That she wasn't telling the truth, and moreover she may be hiding some dark, long held secret.
I couldn't figure it out. What was wrong with Ann's goddamn story?!
And then one day when I was driving in the car, it came to me.
Here's Mj returning after being pied. The little 15 year old pisher is in a rage, so much so that he storms into the Ashram, rips off signs, shouts out 'no more media'...and then calmly, in English, says to Fakiranand 'I don't want you to hurt this man.'
Two things.
In the early days I have great difficulty remembering MJ speak to the mahatmas in English. He seemed to always speak to them in Hindi.
Secondly, for thoseof you who speak a second language, and have the kind of grip on it that MJ had with his English then...it is extremely difficult to slip into your second language when you're that angry, but not that fluent.
I just have a hard time believing Ann's story.
Somehow I envisage M in that moment, shouting out something in Hindi, blaming the whole pie incident on his mahatmas who failed to protect him or something like that...and thereby setting Fakiranand off.
To this day, and especially after hearing Ann's defence of Mj, I believe that he not only directed traffic after the fact, but that in his irresponsible little bratty ways, he incited Fakiranand to commit the crime.
And thats the story guys.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 13:49:08 (GMT)
From: EddytheHootle
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: A LOT OF BULLS BABY
Message:
Listen...regardless of what Ann said to you....It is the kind of thing that is NOT PREMEDIATED...IT WAS INSTANTANEOUS.....AND IT WOULD BE Totally stupid and IRRATIONAL of You to claim that it was instigated by M...it just shows how much Brain you have.

As I can see there were different types of Premis then:

1. Those who were seekers..some found and some left..
2. Those whom the Earth has half swollowed..And wher either almost dead or about to die from junk..their brains were junk...and the FACT THAT THEY ARE ALIVE AND POSTING ON THE FORUM NOW ...You Should thank M for that...You guys could have been all DEAD by now....where is Jim Morrison...Jimi Hendrix...Their minds were JUNKED OUT...

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 18:55:43 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: EddytheHootle
Subject: Junkies? Speak for yourself
Message:
Ah, yes, I think I remember you, premie ji. You've been here before and have talked about how Maharaji saved so many from the evils of heroin addiction.

Maybe there were numerous heroin addicts in the UK saved by Knowledge, but from my anecdotal experience in the U.S. I knew of only one person who had been into heroin. Yes, maybe more and others can throw in their two cents, but your claim is, IMO, an exaggeration.

Sure, there were people who used drugs prior to Knowledge and maybe Knowledge temporarily interrupted their drug use, but I would estimate such drug use to consist of the usual marijuana, LSD, and whatever else was most common. Heroin, IMO, was the exception rather than the rule.

Please detail your claims that might indicate otherwise, please.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 19:09:48 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Eddy time to leave the 60's NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 16:27:31 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: EddytheHootle
Subject: How utterly stupid
Message:

Jim responded:
Hey fool,

Fakir and Mr. White Guy Everybrother conpsired made a plan which, if I recall, was first for Mr. White Guy Everybrother to contact Halley and gain his confidence. They cooked up a story which was that Mr. White Guy Everybrother was an ex-premie who knew an old, disgruntled Indian ex who'd like to meet him and share some dirt on m. They planned the time, place and roles they'd play. At some point, they chose a weapon.

They met with Halley under entirely false pretenses and played their roles throughout. At the fateful moment, offering to show Halley the 'secret techniques', they turned to lights out and one of them, whoever they decided would have the honour of avenging their Lord of the Universe most directly -- and oh, what a solemn honour that was! -- smashed the unsuspecting prankster in the head mercilessly. Then they left, obviously either thinking they'd killed him or, at very best, being entirely indifferent to his fate. That is, they did not call an ambulance or, better still, sa they were sorry and drive him to a hospital. No, they left him t die.

Then they retreated -- exactly as planned.

And you say this was 'instantaneous'?? 'Not premeditated'?? Buddy, this was the ultimate 'premeditated' assault, pun intended.

And as for m ..... well we know he was an Accessory after the Fact. That's a given. We also know now that he spoke with Fakiranand about Halley shortly before the former hatched this plan. Or rather, started to implement it. Who's plan was it? We don't really know now, do we. But plan it was.

Now go back to sleep.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 16:47:47 (GMT)
From: EddytheHootle
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE JIM?
Message:
This is your version of the Story...I would really like to get some facts...where did you get your facts from?
Is this more EXpremie/PremieSpeak...Who is this mister Whiteguy?
Just give me some facts...why has not this Mr halledy guy came out in public...Give me some facts..not rummours...what you say will never impress any intelliegent jury...

My recollection of it...was that this happened in Denver, Co. and that the thing actually happed in PUBLIC ..... OK...Try and convince me...I am jury....Give me some Evidence, you dont even know who this Mr White Guy is...Oh the Juicy Grapevine....

But let me ask you this...in those days with the mindset that we all had then....anybody would have punched this guy....and did u read this thread about what the WPC guy said in Mellenium, 'he would slit....', that is even worse then what we are talking about here...

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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 03:21:41 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: seang2@earthlink.net
To: EddytheHootle
Subject: WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE JIM?
Message:
The version of 'Piegate' that I knew (know) came from the press, not premies. There were interviews with Pat Halley (after he was put back together) in various 'leftist' publications at the time. If you can dig up some old copies of 'Mother Jones', 'The Nation', etc. from that period (over a couple of years, since it took Halley a while to recover) you'll find some articles about it.

And once again, the 'slit your throat' guy from the movie was full of shit. Yes, it was shocking. That's why he said it. I knew the guy, HE WAS FULL OF SHIT. Stop bringing him up for no good reason. Fakiranand and what's his name were for real. They did the deed. It wasn't made up. It ruined M forever with the 'Left'. Whether M planned it or not, he CREATED it. His devotees did it for HIM. They didn't ruin Halley's life cause he insulted the Piemakers Association of America. We may never know M's role in this, it doesn't really matter. That was a Mahatma. If he could do this, how the fuck could M save the world. Where was the Lord of the Universe? Down the street bringing love to the world? You think this is the only attack that happened? It was the most public. Open your eyes, if they could do that, Knowledge is no more real than Oral Roberts. Where I live now they bring out the rattlesnakes and drink strychnine to prove how real it is, come on down Eddie, grab a rattle.

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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 09:35:41 (GMT)
From: EddytheHootle
Email: None
To: Sean
Subject: Skunks Works
Message:
You would do us all a good favour by putting up the interviews of what Halley had to say...why dont you since you seem to know about Premiegate....Find out where this guy is if he is alive...and invite him to come here and tell his story...what a better way then from the Horse's mouth..excuse the pun....

And that WPC guy...you say you knew him...well I knew alot of WPC guys...and I can tell you these guys were serious....have you heard of RajaJi's skunks works department...wiring up the holly residence and the offices of DLM....

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:07:03 (GMT)
From: Jim Heller
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: EddytheHootle
Subject: But Eddy!!!!!
Message:
(Saying that, I felt like Topo Gigio for a moment...)

Eddy, buddy, you missed the whole show.

Of course it happened in Detroit. It was all over the news worldwide. Don't you remember? There was an AP wire shot of Maharaji with pie on his face. I think Time and or Newsweek ran it. I know a lot of newspapers did.

See, if you recall, the incident was actually a Maharaji publicity stunt turned sour. Some Detroit premies had arranged for him to get the key to the city for his 'great humanitarian service and public works'. Halley was the editor of an 'underground' newspaper out for a little agitprop. But then all of this is covered in the Lord of the Universe documentary. The actual pie shot, Halley being interviewed after. It's all there and, if you like, I'm sure there's someone here who'd be willing to arrange your very own video event so you can see for yourself.

And yes, everyone knew that Fakiranand did this in cahoots with a Detroit ashram premie. It was no big secret, Eddy, but I think I understand where your own investigation went wrong. You were busy interviewing witnesses in Denver, I take it. Well that was the wrong town. Sorry.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:18:30 (GMT)
From: Jim Heller
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Jim Heller
Subject: And furthermore ....
Message:
Halley DID come out in public, if you consider the fact that he let himself be interviewed for this PBS documentary. In fact, I'd say that that was a pretty brave move on his part given his prior encounters with the cult, wouldn't you?

Also, re-reading your post, I see how truly confused you are about this matter. The pie-throwing was in public. The retribution, either that day or the next, was a very private affair.

As for the identity of Mr. White Guy Everybrother, a couple of people here have mentioned knowing him and escribing how remorseful he felt afterwards. Like I say, he's reported to have moved to Hawaii soon after. So is that what you're going to doubt? Do you need his name? Surely someone here has it. Mind you, Halley himself describes how it happened. Maybe, if you're nice, I'll watch the video and transcribe his interview for you. Hm?

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:29:15 (GMT)
From: Jim Heller
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Jim Heller
Subject: Oh EDeeeeeeee??????????
Message:
http://goblinjp.com/figure/topogigio.html

Oh EDeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:31:50 (GMT)
From: Jim Heller
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Jim Heller
Subject: Shit! Try that again
Message:

Stupid fucking mouse
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 19:04:13 (GMT)
From: EddytheHootle
Email: None
To: Jim Heller
Subject: Whats up with the Mouse
Message:
Jim....lets get it straight...Detroit not Denver...well what we heard over the other side of the atlantic was..that the guy was asked if he wanted to see 'THE LIGHT' and was thumped on the Head....we assumed it was in public and not premedidated ...and never heard of this mister White guy.....

You are saying it was pre-meditated, and involving an Ashram Premie..Mr White guy....who will remain nameless ..but two people know him...well...why dont they come out and say who he is...

SPACE CADETS:

There are a group of Mahatmas known as 'Space Cadets'....These are Fakiranand, Charanand and forgot the 3rd one...these are the guys with these amazing space age heads....Fakiranand was considered to be a Saint by many premies....What he did at that instant was.....Total Anger and out of Control....it is his Ego saying....shit 'my lord has been humilated...I am going to fix this guy...'

And Jim....probably u and I would have had also some strong feelings about this subject at that time..I know many premies who were cheered that a Mahatma fixed this guy...

So....whats up with your mouse

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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 02:51:37 (GMT)
From: Jim Heller
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: EddytheHootle
Subject: Ah, the mouse
Message:
The mouse link didn't quite work, did it? Often my links don't work. And it's not as if I don't try. I'm just not a good linker I guess. My dad couldn't link either but my grandfather, on the other hand, linked like a motherfucka.

Eddy, it's clear that you don't know shit about this story. That's okay. Like I say, I'll try to get the whole verbiage from the LOTU video and post it here sometime over the next few days. Stay tuned.

Oh, and you're absolutely right. Any of us would have done it. So? What's your point? That we were in a cult? Agreed.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 15:18:09 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: EddytheHootle
Subject: A LOT OF BULLS BABY
Message:
I don't think Joey is 'claiming', he said 'I believe', not 'I know'. I don't think Joey is saying that M was totally responsible for the crime, but that he was at least a factor in the cause of it. Maybe if M handled the situation better, the crime would not have happened.

One thing this crime points out is that fanaticism is not a good thing. M has not taken a strong stance against fanaticism.

If I remember correctly, when Bill Gates got pied in the face, he made light of it by tasting the pie. He said something like 'at least it tastes good'. I'm not sure it was Gates and I'm not a fan of Gates by any means. But someone did respond that way to being pied, which showed some humility and maturity.

M's reaction however, was quite different. I read that he said 'Now I know how Jesus felt'. Which says what? He was equating himself with Jesus Christ (i.e. the Lord). He was equating being pied in the face with being tortured to death. Consider that the word 'excruciate' comes from the word 'crucify' and means to inflict severe pain on, torture, to inflict great mental distress on. The fact that M reacted with any kind of distress to this incident is very telling. Here he was, the Perfect Master who imparts the Knowledge which gives 'perfect peace', throwing a tantrum over a minor incident. He wasn't physically injured, what was the big deal? He was in a tizzy because he was concerned about his image being tarnished, that someone was ruining the show. Ironically, it was his own reaction that tarnished his image.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 20:15:33 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: G
Subject: You got it, G!
Message:

Joey responded:
Thank you for your post. You represented my statement accurately and you provided some additional, excellent info and commentary on your own.
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 22:13:04 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Bill Gates
Message:
I'm considering starting a thread on ways that Bill Gates is better than Prem Rawat. That should piss him off! I have the feeling that Rawat hates Gates. I don't like him either, but still, I think it would be fun.
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 23:55:41 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Bill Gates
Message:

Joey responded:
Go for it G! Why not?
IMO, it'll be a blast. Great idea!
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 21:48:08 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Joey
Subject: THIS IS IMPORTANT!!
Message:

Jim responded:
Joey,

I know you mentioned this before but I'd never really thought about it. But this story's extremely important. And know what? It doesn't even matter what exactly happened. I completely understand your speculative skepticism about Ann's version. That all makes sense. But, like I say, it doesn't even matter. Here's why.

All we need to know is that Maharaji saw Fakiranand and said anything at all to him after the pie-throwing. The implications are disastrous for Maharaji. We know for a fact that Fakiranand would not have tried to kill Hailey in direct contravention of Maharaji's agya. That a virtual certainty and I can't imagine anyone the least bit familiar with the cult back then to even suggest otherwise.

See, without ever really thinking about it all these years, I'd always assumed that Fakiranand acted before he'd ever spoken to Maharaji one way or the other about Hailey. The impression I got (was given?) was of a only-slightly-too-fanatical devotee attacking this infidel in the misguided hope that his master would be pleased. I always felt a little sorry for Fakiranand in a way as I imagined him showing up in front of Maharaji and getting absolutely lambasted for acting so rashly. Like a cat bringing in the neighbour's budgie.

But this changes everything. Again, there is absolutely no way Fakiranand would have displeased Maharaji intentionally. Thus, if he saw Maharaji and heard him out on Hailey before he tried to kill him, well what we're talking about folks is nasty business.

Now what was Maharaji's reason for spiriting Fakiranand out of the country again?

This is amazing.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 04:13:29 (GMT)
From: Jim Heller
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Jim
Subject: Q's re time and timing
Message:
Here are some more questions I hope someone can shed some light on:

1) How long after Halley pied m did Fakiranand meet with Halley? Was it that same day? And what about the bit about the white guy meeting or talking to Halley first to set him up for the big bash?

2) How soon after Halley's Knowledge session did Fakiranand leave Detroit? How about m? When did he leave?

Just pieces of a puzzle, folks. Nothing to get too excited about I'm sure.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 06:30:54 (GMT)
From: Sir David
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It seems obvious to me
Message:
The words, 'I don't want you to hurt this man' can mean either of two things.

Said dispassionately, the words mean what they say, that he doesn't want Fakir to hurt the man.

Said in anger they mean that he wants Fakir to kill the man.

'I don't want you to hurt this man.' Meaning that he wants him to be killed, rubbed out, executed, not just hurt.

Fakir left the man for dead. He thoought that he had killed him, most likely. Many hammer blows would seem to do the trick. However, it's not always that simple. Some people do survive the most appalling head injuries.

I'm sorry to have to say this but the words, 'I don't want you to hurt this man' mean 'I want you to execute him' in gangsterland speak.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 02:25:26 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: THIS IS IMPORTANT!!
Message:
Jim,
This doesn't make sense to me. It would be too obvious for maharaji to send one of his high priests to commit a violent crime. It seems more plausible that Fakiranand acted on his own.

As I think back to how my mindset was during my devoted premie days, I remember the outrage I used to feel occasionally. It was provoked by someone either insulting, or disrespecting maharaji and his divinity. Anything that challenged my belief that he was extraordinary enraged me.

I remember hearing a story that someone tried to throw a brick at maharaji in India and that Charninand jumped in front of maharaji, taking the brick in his lower back. I remember the anger I felt that someone could breach maharaji's status as God so easily. It made me worry that maharaji wasn't God and I quickly squashed that feeling in favor of feeling violent towards the guy who threw the brick. It was as though I wanted to prop maharaji up as God even if it meant compromising my integrity.

It seems more likely that Fakiranand would want to even the score than that maharaji would risk getting caught by not even taking the time to execute an effective conspiracy to thrash the pie-thrower. Only Fakiranand, blinded by his passion for an imaginary God could have done anything so stupid.

I can see maharaji arranging Fakiranand's departure to protect his kingdom. This would have been crafty and pre-meditated to ensure the survival of his empire. If Fakiranand had been caught the publicity might have been too much for DLM to weather.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 03:40:06 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Powerman
Subject: THIS IS IMPORTANT!!
Message:

Jim responded:
Powerman,

Let's think about this a bit. Like I said before, we can safely assume that Fakiranand did in fact hear Maharaji opine about Halley back at the ashram. Joey's slant on what Ann told him is very interesting and may well be true. That is, Maharaji might well have given him explicit instructions to, oh say, at least 'meet' with Halley and it might have been in that context that Maharaji slipped into English, which I agree he rarely, if ever, seemed to use with Indians back then (and yes, I'm really stretching my knowledge a bit here. I was no PAM. Yet I did get that impression somehow.). So if Ann was telling the truth, and she really did hear Maharaji tell Fakiranand specifically not to hurt Halley -- in English -- well, that's interesting. What can I say? It sounds suspicious. Indeed it might have been said for Ann's own benefit.

But what I can't get past, whether or not Ann's right on that point, is that Fakiranand would not have risked the wrath of the Lord by violating his agya so directly and significantly. I mean, don't you see it that way? I agree with you all the way about how worked up Fakiranand would be. Hell, we all would have felt that way and many of us might indeed have done just what Fakiranand did given half a chance. But, would we -- could we have done so if Maharaji had specifically forbidden us to? Not me, Power baby. And I bet not you either. That would have been in direct contravention of our prime directive: OBEY THE LORD.

Where does that leave us (or me anyway)? Thinking, as I said, that Fakiranand would never have tried to murder Halley once he knew that Maharaji didn't want the guy hurt. Never.

But there's something else to consider too. Remember that Fakiranand did not act alone but was joined by one of the local ashram guys. I imagine he's the one who set it up, did the driving, made the initial contact with Halley. After all, wasn't the story that there was some initial communication (a visit? a phone call?) in which the white guy told Halley about Fakir, misdescribing him as a disgruntled, former follower?

Anyway, this other ashram premie would have had to be sold on the hit too, wouldn't he? He'd have known that Maharaji had stormed back to the ashram. He might well have been there to hear the Lord of the Universe rant as well (thanks Ann!). Yet he, too, would have not contravened Maharaji's agya and would, I'm sure, have asked Fakiranand, even if he weren't there, what, if anything, Maharaji had said. Again, I can't see him participating in a murder, even a failed one, when his guru had specifally ordered that Halley be left alone.

Now, to be fair, this is all so speculative. Sure, we can trust Joey. And we can probably trust Ann as well, at least to the extent that she's not going to tell stories that are entirely untrue that nonetheless cast her Lord in a bad light. This bit of hearsay has the benefit of being a 'declaration against interest' in that respect. Ann's admitting that Maharaji threw a tantrum has the ring of truth about it because it's contrary to the public image of him which we all know she's dedicated to preserving at all costs.

But what's so damning for Maharaji in the circumstances is the fact that he was obviously so anxious to help Fakiranand escape. In all the circumstances, if this were a police investigation, the cops would have every reason to arrest Maharaji as an accessory after the fact. But we already knew that. Most significantly, they'd now have ample cause to investigate him further as a party to the assault itself.

Big question: what can anyone tell us about the other brother involved? Someone's posted here that he was an otherwise nice guy, who supposedly felt 'bad' about the matter and left soon after for Hawaii. Naturally, some questions come to mind, in particular:

Did Maharaji ever meet the guy? Before? After?

Was he there in the room when Maharaji flipped out as Ann described?

Anyone?

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:56:03 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: seang2@earthlink.net
To: Jim
Subject: THIS IS IMPORTANT!!
Message:
I never met the guy, but premies talked about him before the Fakiranand deal. I remember people talking about what a great devotee he was, that he would sit in meditation for 24 hours at a time, etc. Then after the pie incident, I heard that he was the one who got together with F and set up Pat Halley.
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 01:10:42 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Sean
Subject: Meditating for 24 hours!
Message:
Whoa!

I was just wimp, but I think that if anyone really sat for 24 hours of meditation that they would be some kind of hardcore nutcase. And you know that there were many!

I could see a guy who says he does 24 hours of meditation being extremely fanatical and overly devoted.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 01:21:27 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: seang2@earthlink.net
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Meditating for 24 hours!
Message:
That's actually what I was thinking when I heard it.
Although, a good friend said he used to meditate 6 to 8 hours every night (I think he had a bad back cause he was always in bed when he was meditating)
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 05:10:47 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: THIS IS IMPORTANT!!
Message:
The community I lived in, where I started going to satsang in '76 was Honululu. There was a guy there who might have been the guy but I have no info; can't even remember his name. If someone described him I could recognize if it was the guy. Hell, I could even describe the guy. But if that was the guy, and no one has his full name, he may never be found, because he was a slippery noodle; the type of guy who could pull off a con-game, like a Joe Montegna (in House of Games) type of guy.

Anyway, I agree that it's almost certain that two devotees wouldn't disobey agya, unless one of them lost control in a moment of passion.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 04:46:21 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!
Message:
Yes!

Wild dream-like conspiracy requires the second suspect, the unnamed accomplice, the American brother, to be that nutcase 'Sam-Slit-Their-Throat-No-Questions-Asked' as seen in the Lord of the Universe documentary.

Well, even without him the fact that Maharaji communicated anything at all to Fakiranand would warrant that any diligent police investigation bring Maharaji in for questioning as party to a criminal conspiracy to commit criminal assault or felonious assault or, perhaps, even attempted murder.

Not being a lawyer or a police officer, but having watched a lot of Jack Webb's Dragnet I will say that Maharaji should at the very least have been questioned by the police regardless of whether Maharaji did or did not take part in the conspiracy. After all, Maharaji had as much of a motive as anyone else, didn't he?

Obviously, there was, without a doubt, a conspiracy of premeditated assault on the part of Fakiranand who had the hammer in his position at the time of the assault. Where did Fakiranand acquire the weapon in question? Did Fakiranand walk down to the True Value Hardware store in his saffron robes and purchase the hammer? Did Fakiranand, all by himself, find a hammer in the basement of the Detroit ashram?

Better yet, how did Fakiranand carry and conceal the hammer in his saffron robes? This incident took place in what time of year? Summer, I believe in Detroit? Would Fakiranand being wearing a heavy winter jacket that could easily conceal a hammer? I'd speculate that Fakiranand was handed the hammer in OR nurse to surgeon style by the unnamed accomplice whereupon Fakiranand wailed on Pat Halley's head with it.

Where were the police? Police Investigation?

Consider that this was 1973 in Detroit, Michigan which is about as close to Chicago as you can get. Very Midwestern, very conservative. The players in the drama is some fat fifteen year old guru kid from India, a bald headed wild eyed old man in fruity saffron robes, and an underground radical newspaper reporter from the 60's. And the main suspect cannot be found.

How much effort is the Detroit police going to put into bringing these criminals to justice under these circumstances?

EXACTLY!

Borrowing heavily from what Jim has said:

Based on all of our weak evidence and the obvious fact that Fakiranand did not act alone, was not the one who set it up, did not do the driving, did not make the initial contact with Halley, there was a conspiracy that contained at the very least two suspects. After all, wasn't the story that there was some initial communication (a visit? a phone call?) in which the white guy told Halley about Fakir, misdescribing him as a disgruntled, former follower?

And, as Jim said Maharaji took great interest in seeing that Fakiranand was whisked out of the country as soon as possible. Was Fakiranand whisked out of the country so quickly because fifteen year old Maharaji with only two years of being in the West was astute enough to consider the effects of the negative publicity or because he felt some personal responsibility, guilt and fear over the incident.

And while I have never been to India and I am only parroting what I believe might be the case, let us not forget that in India it might be very common place for very hardcore acts of revenge against those who would dare denigrate one's guru. And I wonder how many of those cases ever get prosecuted? Or even investigated? Sorry, but I suspect that life is very cheap in India.

And where does all that talk about what should happen to those who would denigrate one's guru come from? The mahatmas and devotees alone? Or from the guru too, whom at one time had been a devotee, himself. Certainly, as Joey surmises that Maharaji might have flown into a childish rage and reverted 100% to his Indian-Hindu heritage and mores.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 06:02:55 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!
Message:
yes yes boys
its all very important
who won the superbowl?
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 12:17:50 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Selene, you crack me up!
Message:
FYI, the Saint Louis Rams won the Super Bowl. It was a really good game - went down to the wire. Probably one of the most exciting Super Bowls ever - not the usual mis-match. (They played the Tennessee Titans.)

My opinion on the Fakiranand incident is that I sincerely doubt that M gave agya to anyone to actually DO anything to Pat Halley. But most 16-year-old boys who get a pie thrown in their face in public are going to be pretty upset - and perhaps Fakiranand extrapolated from that. And I agree with Powerman that it is doubtful that two devotees would disobey agya from M.

BTW, someone just recently told me that there was a persistent rumor in the premie community up there that Pat Halley later saw the error of his ways and received knowledge.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 16:20:02 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Ms. K
Subject: Not so fast, Katie
Message:

Jim responded:
Katie,

I think the proper way to look at this, if you don't mind my saying so, is to really consider the facts. Sure, the idea of a short-fused, love-crazy fanatical Fakiranand acting contrary to m's wishes has always been the common story. I sure had no problem with it. It was easy and, more importantly, it made sense given the little I (we) ever heard about this. We all heard that m had been very calm and 'non-reactive' when he got hit with the pie in the first place. In fact, wasn't the story that he'd made a point of telling his security hacks to leave the guy alone. That was a city hall.

But now we have more facts. Now we have a very pissed off guru, ranting and tantrumming for a private audience back at the ashram. We've got Fakiranand there for the show. We've even got m specifically addressing the subject of retribution with him. Don't forget, it's not as if Ann recounts a dialogue between m and Fakiranand, one in which the latter might have proposed some payback for Halley which m could have commented on. Instead there's m ranting, Fakiranand cowering -- why? was m talking then about the just fate for someone who so disgraces the LORD OF THE UNIVERSE?

And then Fakiranand leaving that room and sometime soon after making certain arrangements? In concert with yet another person there?

Let's put it this way: there's not enough info to know one way or another. m might well have just been blowing off some major steam and still pointedly telling Fakir that, in spite of what he'd just said, Halley was to be left alone. (By the way, if even THAT scenario were true, m would still have all sorts of moral responsibility for the crime. After all, it now sounds like Fakiranand didn't just fuel himself but that somehow he was strongly affected by something m said to him in the ashram. m could still be liable for 'aiding and abbetting' the assault. In the context of being the LORD OF THE UNIVERSE he should have known what effect his denouncement of Halley might have on Fakiranand. No?)

But the real point is that we just don't know. We should mull this over further, I guess. For my money, though, I'm at the very least starting to question the pat, Sanfordized (sorry, Shp) version I'd always known. Aren't you?

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 19:30:11 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Not so fast, Katie
Message:
Jim,
There isn't enough information to form a conclusion that maharaji was involved in the crime on Halley before the crime was committed. We could speculate forever but we need more to draw a conclusion. I agree it's suspicious that maharaji said something to Fakir before the crime regarding the pie-throwing incident, and it's suspicious that Fakir was seen cowering. But that's as far as it goes. It's enough to not accept wholesale the Sanfordized version but not enough for anything else. Unless we get more info it stands here. Even if we do get more info it's unlikely anything would happen legally, unless we can find something that was unavailable around the time of the crime.

Otherwise if maharaji were to become a criminal defendant in this case, he would be protected by his right to due process of law (U.S. Constitution, 5th and 14th Amendments), and to speedy trial (U.S. Constitution, 6th and 14th Amendments).

A defendant need not show actual prejudice in order to assert a speedy trial violation under the federal constitution, although it may be a factor to be considered Baker v. Wingo (1972) 407 U.S. 514; Moore v. Arizona (1973) 414 U.S. 25, 26. Similarly, no particular length of delay is necessary to show a Constitutional deprivation. Baker v. Wingo, supra, 407 U.S. at 530-531. Under federal law, defendant has a due process right which protects against unreasonable delays in prosecution.

It's also likely there are several related issues in Michigan law which would make it difficult to prosecute maharaji.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:25:00 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Powerman
Subject: Are you Shepardizing me?
Message:
Powerman,

Are you a lawyer too, like Marianne and me? She does criminal appeal work in the bay area. I do criminal defence in British Columbia.

You know, I'm not for a moment thinking that m could ever be prosecuted for his role in the assault, whatever that was. But I do think it's worth trying for ourselves to look past the myth and try to see the truth. It's like doing history. Although we might not answer anything conclusively, we can approach the truth of the matter. As we do, of course, m's own silence becomes ever more deafening.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 01:49:21 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Are you Shepardizing me?
Message:

Powerman responded:
No, I'm a janitor. Seriously.

But I agree with what you're saying. The recent new information casts a pall over maharaji's unquestioned innocence in this.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:41:34 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: Shouldn't M have quized?
Message:
Subject S.B.: Jim, shouldn't the police questioned Maharaji?

Under the circumstances as we know or think we know them now from Ann's story, shouldn't the police, at least, have brought Maharaji in for questioning?

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:55:56 (GMT)
From: Jim Heller
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: You're really pushing my butto
Message:

Jim Heller responded:
Roger,

You're really pushing my butto, you know. I absolutely hate it when people misspell 'quizzed'? I can't even tell you.

I need a minute here.

Okay, to answer your question, I'd say that there might not have been any reason to question Maharaji initially. However, it makes one wonder:

What kind of investigation was there?

Surely had to be something. Anyone?

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 05:27:25 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim Heller
Subject: Becuz subjet lîn much small
Message:
Sorry, Jîm!

I am a very bad person.

Glad al ovur that I not be in your band. Probby get all pised off when I plâ D Minor insted of D, hoo?

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 00:37:41 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Jim
Subject: Correxione
Message:

Jim responded:
I should have said I didn't think m would ever be prosecuted, not 'could'. Sure he could but it's highly unlikely any DA'd give a shit about this so many years later.
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 07:12:44 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: How about a civil suit?
Message:
Another moot point since Halley is dead, but could Halley done a civil suit against which parties?

Fakiranand?
Maharaji?
DLM?
The unnamed American premie?
The Detroit Ashram?

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 07:23:03 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: All of 'em
Message:

Jim responded:
Why not? Theories of liability enough for everyone.
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 06:07:44 (GMT)
From: sorry
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!
Message:
just had to do it!!
I know it's important but I felt a need to balance
forgive me?
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 10:08:43 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: sorry
Subject: Who's in the Superbowl?
Message:
I swear to god I don't have a clue. Been busy working for hours on a very hot post. Don't worry, it's not aimed at anyone here this time or could it be?

It's good, but needs to wait until tomorrow when I can do a little reportive investigation.

Swear to god, I'm either insane or this is the best thing I've ever found!

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 06:46:54 (GMT)
From: and ps
Email: None
To: sorry
Subject: THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!
Message:
in case you think I am a total flake
I do work this stuff out in personal email.

I have just given up on any organized effort. I hope you understand. I know how you like to talk. so do I!!
If there ever is something I tangible I can contribute to, I'm here.

no offense. Selene

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 00:58:11 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: Super HOT ***BEST***
Message:
Ok, done!

This is a new ***Best***

I've made a few editorial changes like corrected the name from Hailey to Halley and I've bolded a few lines to punch it up.

Yes, I think Maharaji lost it and in his spoiled brat routine might have very well incited Fakiranand's criminal action of attempted murder. I repeat, ATTEMPTED MURDER.

Also, as additional background I've included Jim Heller's post titled 'Correction re Donner' from Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 05:44:32 (GMT) where Jim recounts a conversation he had with Michael Donner where Donner states that Maharaji gave him personal agya to sneak Fakiranand out of the states after he tried to kill Halley.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 01:49:56 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Yes, way cool (but HOT for m)
Message:

Jim responded:
Roger,

Laurie and I met with him and Gary Ockendon late July or early August '98. We all went to a restaurant in Nelson called the Fiddler's Green, I think. Gourmet country restaurant that used to be the DLM ashram back in '74. (You know, the place where Tejeshwaranand gave three knowledge sessions and got a girl pregnant all in one night.) Donner told us all that Maharaji met with him personally immediatley after the pie and hammer incidents and ordered him to drive Fakiranand to Chicago, then to whisk him across the border to Canada where he was to be put on a plane to Europe (and India? Can't remember). I also can't remember if Donner said he was in Detroit with Maharaji at the time but obviously he must have been.

The clear implication was that this was not to be a satsang tour for Fakiranand. Fast, stealth and -- did I say fast? -- was what it was all about.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 10:03:30 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: You're so far from real world
Message:
I can understand those premies' sadness. I would have felt like that a few years back.

They've paid 350 French Francs (60 US$) - this is how much they've HAD to pay here - to watch that pre-recorded 'unique' video, where their master didn't say anything special. They don't know when they're going to see him again in flesh. They don't understand what's going on ...

I guess they should be glad enough their beloved master is having fun with his new toys....

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 05:31:10 (GMT)
From: Mr David
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: JB
Subject: Your help needed, JB
Message:
Now I am just as concerned as the next person about facts. I am a facts collector, nay hoarder and have built a web site of facts about Maharaji. So please, perhaps you could help me. Could you please read my website, The truth about Maharaji and then come back here and tell us all which facts are incorrect on that web site. I wouldn't want to be putting up facts which were untrue.
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 05:24:12 (GMT)
From: Jim Heller
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: JB
Subject: Fine then, let's clean house
Message:
JB,

You're right, it's just so hard to get all the facts sometimes. A year or so ago I was calling and writing Linda Gross but, shucks, she didn't know anything. She was just the president of EV. So, it's tough, isn't it? But then maybe you can help:

1) Does Maharaji have any mistresses? If so, how many? Is one named Monica? If so, for how long?

2) Does Maharaji ever use illicit drugs? You know, a little pot, a little coke, a little whatever? If so, how much? And for how long? If not, did he ever? When? Why?

3) What's Maharaji's net worth? Any rough idea? What's that all about anyway?

4) Is Maharaji the Lord of the Universe? If so, for how long has he held this position? If not, was he ever the Lord of the Universe? What happened?

5) What do you think Maharaji's future's like? Have you ever thought about it? I mean really thought about it? How about yours?

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 18:24:41 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Jim Heller
Subject: Welcome back, pal!
Message:
Hi Jim. Glad to see you. Thanks for the list of questions which will go unanswered by Rotwat & Co. As for JB being so inspired by the satellite event, I'd say he's far outnumbered by the new exes who have fled here after witnessing that debacle.

How's tricks in Mountieland?

Marianne

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:28:58 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Marianne
Subject: Yeah, but I'm not supposed to
Message:
be here. (See? How can we talk with one another properly when we can't even whine about how addicted we are to the forum in the subject line?)

Things are fine. But here I am again. Now all I've got to do is argue with Shp and then I'm really back to square one. Oh Shhhpppp? Here, Shippeee? Shhhpppp?

How's Ireland? What are you teaching and do they take you seriously? That's something I always wondered about. If I were to teach a class if I could fool the students enough.

Sorry, Marianne. I'm projecting.

But how is it over there anyway?

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 20:55:08 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Students take me seriously
Message:
Oh Jim, the students take me quite seriously. They find me endlessly entertaining. In Ireland, you can go to law school when you are 18. I have 215 students -- mostly young and a night class of folks more my age. I'm having a great time. I'm teaching Legal Writing. It's fun. No stress.

What I'm really looking forward to is going to London next week for Latvian night. I hear that they've constructed a dart board with Rotwat's glowing visage on it....

Love and kisses,
Marianne

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 21:09:32 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: dartboard ??? ...
Message:
'... constructed a dart board with Rotwat's glowing visage on it' ???

Now, Marianne, it'll be a visit to New Scotland Yard's Black Museum for you if you're not careful! ... ;)

Chris

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 14:04:50 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: BLACK MUSEUM!!!!!
Message:
Chris: Yeah, the Black Museum, that is EXACTLY where I want to go! Great idea. We've got a date. Maybe J-M wants to go too.

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 07:45:53 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Marianne
Subject: BLACK MUSEUM on Radio?
Message:
Ever hear the Old Time Radio (OTR) Black Museum show with Orson Welles? Awesome stuff!
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 16:18:50 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: BLACK MUSEUM!!!!!
Message:
I wanna come with you,
but you'll have to come and pick me up at the station.
Well I don't know if this is feasible....
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 03:11:11 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: He's shitting himself....
Message:
I do believe we are getting to him. He knows the UK is off limits after the publicity here and our media contacts. His ownership of Amaroo is illegal in Australia and that is now known by the Australian media, so another program at Amaroo looks unlikely. Argentina is still there, but apart from the excellent meat and tango dancing, why would anyone want to go there? So I guess Africa and India are the only places he can go. Africa is not very lucrative though, and in India he is just another guru.

Oh well, goodbye Maharaji. Now all we have to do is get you arrested on one of your many tax evasion activities, and you can disappear into obscurity. I wouldn't advise trying the Jesus approach. Your hold over your followers is not strong enough for that.

All the worst,

John.

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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 22:46:10 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Wheeeeedddoooogggieeee!!
Message:
I've just got some news today from premiedom. Everything's cancelled ('events'). Premies are sad and freaking out.(emphasis my own)

******************************

Wow!! I can hardly believe my eyes.
Everything's cancelled ('events').

Now, this is what I call REALLY beautiful news!!
Whenever you have more details, please let us know more.

In the meantime,

Wheeeeedddooooggggieeeeeee!!!

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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 22:57:12 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Wheeeeedddoooogggieeee!!
Message:
Premies don't know why.

I've got these news from an ex, her sister (and her husband) are active premies. There are lots of rumors, but not good ones.

Maybe he's depressed, or Monica left, who knows. No money to re-fuel the G4 .... guess ....

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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 23:09:20 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: He sounds depressed
Message:
Hi Jean-Michel,
Of course I didn't see the pre-recorded satellite broadcast, but from the descriptions of it on these pages, I got the very distinct impression that M sounded depressed.
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 00:02:24 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Ms. K
Subject: He sounds depressed
Message:
Well for a nominal fee, very little payback considering what
I gave him
I could point him in every direction. (including some bad ones ha!)
but... If the poor poor guy is depressed come on Katie!! He can afford the best.
I mean I did it. I gave up on my HMO 5 weeks ago and paid out of pocket and I now see where the saying 'you get what you pay for' comes from!
I am getting quality care and oh god dare I say this in public?
I think it is better. and working. Well one thing for sure. Less side effects. And they pay more attention.

....and so, I am sure if our poor ex guru is feein low cause his own K thing aint workin for whatever reasin... well girl he can afford to get the best of help

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 00:59:17 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: He sounds depressed
Message:
Hi Selene -
You know what all the doctors say - you can't cure SITUATIONAL depression with anti-depressants. And I can't imagine M in talk therapy somehow.
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 18:40:12 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Ms. K
Subject: He sounds depressed
Message:
That would be some session wouldn't it?
How would he even begin? They'd lock him up. Delusions of grandeur. God like hallucinatory psychosis. Classic stuff.
I'll never understand why those types don't cut out while they're ahead.
Guess it's true there never is enough money.
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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 23:21:59 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Prem Pal
Subject: Cheer up
Message:
To Prem Pal and the premies,

Cheer up. There really is peace and love inside us. So what if things are a mess? Calm down enough to be aware of your own consiousness. Life is beautiful. God is within all of us. It is simple. And there is forgiveness.

By saying all this I don't claim to be high or anything. I have plenty of problems that I don't care to mention.

To the aspirants, you can find out the techniques here at this site. I won't give a direct link, you will have to make a little effort.

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 04:54:35 (GMT)
From: Perspiring Aspirant
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Cheer up
Message:

Perspiring Aspirant responded:
G,

I am prepared to make 'a little effort'.

But who amongst you, will give me a little grace?

I cannot wait another minute, but if I have to, I'll wait the rest of my life... just for your answer.

PA

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 18:31:04 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Perspiring Aspirant
Subject: Here's grace
Message:
Version 1: In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, the one who eats the fastest gets the most!
(credit: 'Song of Bernadette', starring Jennifer Jones)

Version 2: Bless us oh Lord for these thy gifts which we are about to receive through thy bounty and grace. Amen.

Marianne Delores Bernadette, the good Catholic girl

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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 11:07:45 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Perspiring Aspirant
Subject: Cheer up
Message:
Dear PA,
It all comes from you. You know, when something really excellent and deeply meaningful happens and you are just a clicking along, happy as shit. You get the job, you win $20 on that lottery ticket and you are aware and in awe of the stars in the sky. That's life.
It all comes from you when you wreck your car and your hair is looking bad and then you realize you don't have a check or the money to pay for the tow. That's life.
You've had 'grace' your whole life, maybe it is when you are connected to something in yourself that is connected to everything else. I have also found that usually the bad stuff leads to some good if you let it. I believe that is a strong possibility anyway but, it is, the good and the bad with or without M, the difference being what thoughts and feelings you attach to it.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 21:43:00 (GMT)
From: Aspirant
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Cheer up
Message:

Aspirant responded:
Robyn,

Your post is one of the most poignant, insightful, and personally for myself, the most helpful that I've read since I've tuned in here. So simple and so beautiful.

I really don't want to reveal too much about myself at this point.
Just wanted to say 'thanks'.

And please note. I'm no longer 'perspiring'.;-)

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 11:03:54 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Aspirant
Subject: Cheer up
Message:
Dear Aspirant,
I keep looking and the list and it just isn't there. The post I thought I'd typed last night. Well, I'll have another go... I am glad you are no longer perspiring but I do wish you were no longer an aspirant either.
I am glad my words struck a cord with you and I hope they help you have the strength to stay out of the cult. Meditation is great, I still do it, but you don't have to sell your soul to get it. You can learn it in many places on the web even and there are lots of other kinds of meditation too. If you need to worship someone, I don't know what to tell you. Doesn't seem like healthy self preservation to me.
Good luck with this and I hope to hear from you again.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 21:01:43 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: another 'Best of' (in my book)
Message:
another '**best of**' (at least in my book)

Robyn says:
'Meditation is great, I still do it, but you don't have to sell your soul to get it. ...

... If you need to worship someone, I don't know what to tell you. Doesn't seem like healthy self preservation to me.'

Thanks, Robyn.

[And cudos to Roger for hosting the 'best ofs' (not to mention the archives) but he does seem to have his own particular taste when it comes to choosing them.]

How come ex-premie.org hasn't got it's own 'best-of' page?

Yet.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 21:55:00 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: another 'Best of' (in my book)
Message:
Thanks Chris. :)
Two for two, must be that brillant goddess in me! Just knowing she's there is helping me let her shine through! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 19:26:49 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Two for two??? cryptic???(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 23:14:30 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: J-M & all
Subject: G's post from inactive index
Message:
This is part of G's post on the pre-recorded broadcast (from the Inactive):

I watched the pre-recorded broadcast and it was the last straw. And not just for me, someone said to me 'I've never felt so negative before'. One thing, this wasn't the first pre-recorded broadcast. The video started with m saying, with an expressionless face 'This is about you' (long pause) 'This is about me' (long pause) 'This is about life' (long pause) all while making strange gestures with his hands. He didn't seem very lively to me. In the video he said something like ... with each life, if you can make a little progress, that's good enough ... I don't think that was the exact wording but that was the meaning. I think in this same video he said 'it all ends' when you die.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 08:18:37 (GMT)
From: 09
Email: None
To: Ms. K
Subject: When a wife gets fed up......
Message:
But first ---The videos I have seen seem to be ameture, spliced together painful affairs. The one professional quality they did eminate was the equipment they were done on. It was like bad home movies done on super high tech equipment.

Even when I was trying so much to be like them, I imagined Malarki up late at night drinking coffee, while he fooled around with the equipment. Pasting in shmultzy animated pictures and fooling around with music.

Also, I coulnt get over the feeling the Marolyn was happy to have her own wing to herself while he 'worked'

Honest to gawd, she must be happy that her dear boring husband has some toys (ect) to play with so he stays out of her hair.

But I also think of anyone close to M- that his wife would be a hellcat for him to deal with about the allegations and rumours that are flying. She is no fool and is probably plotting her course to freedom.

If she ever wakes up and actually leaves him-therin pops the golden bubble.

Maybe the last straw will be dealt from her over morning coffee.
Something like 'Look Pumpkin, either you get this business straightened out or Im outta here'

day dreamin 09

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Date: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 18:59:45 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Rawat in disguise?
Message:
Richard,

I don't think there is any evidence for or against this. We have certainly had some very weird people here, though!

BTW, welcome! Is there anything you would be willing to share with us about yourself (although there is of course no need to)?

John.

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 20:46:05 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: John, you sound like ...
Message:
John, you sound like ... sensitive CID.

...'is there anything you would be willing to share with us ...' about the night of the ...'

forgive me(!)

and forgive the typo in my last email.

Make that 'buy you a drink'

But???

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Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2000 at 21:39:31 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: John, you sound like ...
Message:
I was going to ask you about butting me a drink but I was afraid you would demonstrate!

All the best,

John.

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Date: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 19:38:39 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: aegidian head-butts??
Message:
You might like to check out mine own ever so 'umble response (!) to Nigel. (Hopefully above, though the first attempt seems to have gone to that great silicon chip butty in the sky...)
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