Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 17:48:57 (GMT)
From: Feb 07, 2000 To: Feb 16, 2000 Page: 5 Of: 5


Susan -:- Money maker for Rawat. Premie lurkers listen up -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 07:17:53 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Bits of Perfect Master -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 08:57:22 (GMT)
__ __ Gregg -:- 'Holy Water' -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 15:50:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- 'Holy Water' -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 00:15:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- 'Holy Water' -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 16:17:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Charlie -:- 'Holy Water' -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:27:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- I deny it... -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 12:10:17 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek™ -:- Bad, bad things would start to happen -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 07:41:46 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- Hey, Roger! -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 19:51:48 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Oooh Roger.... -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 08:59:13 (GMT)

Mu -:- I am the serenest! -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 03:38:12 (GMT)
__ Ms. K -:- LOL! **BEST** if it doesn't infringe copyright law -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 21:02:14 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- LOL! **BEST** if it doesn't infringe copyright law -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 00:44:43 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- OH MY GAWD! -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 18:58:20 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- Prahbupada is dead, btw (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 19:04:48 (GMT)
__ Angry -:- I am the serenest!/No, Fatso Ji is! -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 13:25:32 (GMT)
__ __ Untimely Serene -:- You are all wrong!!!!! -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:02:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- You are all wrong!!!!! -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:19:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ HSDG Shreik MahaGuru G Ji -:- NO, I AM THE SERENEST YOU G#@!*(+ A*#@*@! M@*^!@* -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:40:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Untimely Serene -:- NO, I AM THE SERENEST YOU G#@!*(+ A*#@*@! M@*^!@* -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 21:52:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- NO, I AM THE SERENEST YOU G#@!*(+ A*#@*@! M@*^!@* -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:46:20 (GMT)
__ __ Loafji -:- I am the serenest!/No, Fatso Ji is! -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 13:45:20 (GMT)
__ Shp -:- No, Mu, you are the slowest breather... -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 12:04:38 (GMT)
__ __ Mu -:- No, Shp, you are the slowest...idiot -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 17:17:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shp -:- Mu, you are gasping at straws -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 11:38:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mu -:- So, you do appreciate satire! -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 02:03:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- 'satire in yer kurta... -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 03:11:03 (GMT)
__ __ An Occassional Observer -:- Shp you forgot to mention... -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 14:45:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Another Observer -:- Shp you forgot to mention... -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 23:00:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ An Occcassional Observer -:- I am guilty of........ -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 05:36:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Thank you for the input... -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 17:08:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Shp -:- Shp you forgot to mention... -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 00:04:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shp -:- Shp you forgot to mention... -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 11:52:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ An Occassional Observer -:- Shp you forgot to mention... -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 16:08:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Reply to AOO -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:54:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ An Occassional Observer -:- Was Hans a psychic? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 17:59:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Was Hans a psychic? -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 21:00:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AOO -:- Evil flourishes where good people do nothing -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 05:56:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Evil flourishes where good people do nothing -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 17:21:02 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Brilliant. -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 09:03:38 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- I am the serenest! -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 04:34:23 (GMT)

JHB -:- An Invitation to a Special Evening -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 00:43:27 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- John, you forgot... -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 09:09:14 (GMT)
__ __ Know It All -:- John, you forgot... -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 12:18:00 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- OK, I volunteer -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 09:58:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- OK, I volunteer -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 00:47:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- How about Hamzen? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 10:37:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Toe kissing -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 10:35:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Toe kissing -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 01:41:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Toe kissing -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 10:39:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Sorry Marianne... -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 10:40:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Selling And It Is Divine -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 12:05:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- EV trinkets, anybody? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 14:05:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- EV trinkets, anybody? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 21:47:36 (GMT)

Deputy Dog -:- Almost outed - ouch! -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 22:02:10 (GMT)
__ Shp -:- There's a little good in the worst of us... -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 11:55:47 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- There's a little snot in the best of us -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 16:41:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shp -:- There's a little snot in the best of us -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 12:51:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Candy -:- At Last, More Snotsang from Anth!! -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 22:05:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- At Last, More Snotsang from Anth!! -:- Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 12:17:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- Oh, no... If I blow my nose does that mean I'm.... -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 22:05:13 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Fanaticism -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 10:50:23 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- Almost - You're a strange one Dep -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:52:55 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- How in the world do you remember -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 00:59:24 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Almost outed - ouch! -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 00:52:09 (GMT)
__ __ Powerman -:- Almost outed - ouch! -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:54:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Cream is from cows, not crops (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 10:54:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Somewhere in between? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 02:01:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Somewhere in between? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 02:48:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Am I being too hard here? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 11:22:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Wha.. huh??? Ghee.... did someone say ghee? (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 22:09:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Roger....best of material above! -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 16:52:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Please call it 'Hot Ghee on a Fat Mahatma's Arse' -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 17:01:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Am I being too hard here? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 15:44:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Am I being too hard here? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 13:05:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Somewhere in between? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 04:39:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Somewhere in between? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 06:12:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Jim is wrong Powerman is right..... -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 07:11:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Jim is wrong Powerman is right..... -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 15:54:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Demographics is a whole other story -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 23:50:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Jim is wrong Powerman is right..... -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 15:20:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- But the group of people you describe is a unique -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 16:21:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- An equation- -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 11:32:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- An equation- -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 16:13:11 (GMT)

Brian -:- Forum Upgrade -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 18:57:10 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek™ -:- Forum Upgrade -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 18:31:04 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Thanks Brian. -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 11:36:28 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Forum Upgrade - British tourist attractions -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:27:31 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Yes it works - thanks Brian, I really needed that -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 17:13:22 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Great, excellent, and thank you very much.....(nt) -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 19:26:55 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- EV's officials concern -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:18:04 (GMT)
__ SB -:- E.V.Is getting your help -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 04:51:23 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- E.V.Is getting your help: more! -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 11:26:36 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Say what? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 06:02:08 (GMT)
__ TD -:- EV are obviously equal opportunity employers.... -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:11:53 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- I disagree - classic misogynists -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 04:36:05 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- EV's officials concern -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:56:42 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- No, that's Sharon Stokke in a pants suit -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 21:42:10 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- EV's officials concern -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:22:48 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- those are mere shadows of men -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:55:02 (GMT)
__ Jethro -:- learning more -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:38:02 (GMT)
__ __ Dunceoafdolt -:- learning more -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 19:38:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- learning more -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 20:43:29 (GMT)

Happy -:- revised journey -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 13:55:11 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Nice job of looking back on strange times Happy NT -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 22:45:35 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- revised journey -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:30:42 (GMT)
__ __ Happy -:- thanks -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 18:24:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- that was very nice. Thanks to you :) (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 07:21:59 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- computer spelling (ot) -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:26:26 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- revised journey -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:15:54 (GMT)
__ __ Happy -:- thanks -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 18:37:51 (GMT)
__ Way -:- revised journey -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:14:13 (GMT)
__ __ Happy -:- thanks -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:50:51 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- To G -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:24:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- Journey -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:10:20 (GMT)

Justin Case -:- starseed transmission? -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 08:12:17 (GMT)
__ Curly -:- starseed transmission? -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 18:36:39 (GMT)
__ __ Michael -:- starseed transmission? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 03:14:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Curly -:- starseed transmission? -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 04:03:15 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- BWAH HA HA HA HA HA -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 20:14:47 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- HEY SCOTT!!!!!!! -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:36:01 (GMT)
__ Happy -:- starseed transmission? -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 14:03:04 (GMT)
__ Mr David -:- starseed transmission? -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 13:30:03 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- I think it's... -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 09:20:52 (GMT)
__ J.Z. Knight -:- Ramtha© says Bah, humbug! -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 08:37:19 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- web page -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 12:53:47 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Yippee another cult to join -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 09:32:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Oops sorry JZ -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:18:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Happy -:- J.Z. Knight is Ramtha? -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 13:27:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cqg -:- J.Z. Knight 'channels' Ramtha -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 20:19:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- J.Z. we must talk. -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 11:47:38 (GMT)

Jim -:- Nonzero: The logic of human d -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 03:55:01 (GMT)
__ Harry -:- Neo Darwinists -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 05:20:38 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Unweaving the rainbow -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 20:19:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Harry -:- A society of memes called Jerry -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 02:21:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Fairies vs. Memes -:- Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 08:47:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- The Meme Machine. -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 06:26:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- The Meme Machine. -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 11:48:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- Little mushroom on the forest floor. -:- Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 12:44:40 (GMT)

Roger eDrek™ -:- Timothy Leary mouse pad eBay -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 01:56:36 (GMT)
__ It wasn't me -:- just call me paranoid -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:49:03 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- I'm tired again -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:52:23 (GMT)
__ Mommie Dearest -:- Coathangers and Raw Meat -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:15:50 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- I've regressed -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:44:58 (GMT)

cqg -:- Fight! fight! (anticipated) -:- Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 21:31:29 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- Fight! fight! (anticipated) -:- Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 21:52:38 (GMT)
__ __ forgot one -:- and if you don't mind -:- Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 22:34:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- and another one -:- Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 22:45:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ 09 -:- Oh so we wernt into family -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 01:15:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Oh so we wernt into family -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 01:44:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Ashram ego encouraged by M -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:40:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You're absolutely right -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 03:06:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek™ -:- Reluctantly a ***Best*** -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 19:55:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- A best must read post Jim (nt) -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 06:22:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Ashram ego encouraged by M -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:46:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ 09 -:- Mindset of the devoted house.. -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 05:29:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ms. K -:- A Story -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:29:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ 09 -:- A Story -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 20:18:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ BJ -:- A Story -:- Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 03:44:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Mindset of the devoted house.. -:- Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:26:49 (GMT)


Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 07:17:53 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Money maker for Rawat. Premie lurkers listen up
Message:
You know that camera at Disneyland where they take your photo as you go down splash mountain?

Bring back Darshan.

Put the camera up in the tunnel.

Have it snap as lips contact sock.

You KNOW every premie gotta have a snap of them with the teach, ooops Teach.

Hurry up, do it now before the cult folds and no one wants a pic like that anymore.

Or have you done it already....sneaky devils.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 08:57:22 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Bits of Perfect Master
Message:
Hi Susan,

I always thought there'd be a good market in 'bits of the Perfect Master'.

Visions International could sell toe clippings, individual hairs from different parts of the body and so on(they could be collected as they fell out, after a hair cut etc). I'm sure there are Gopis out there who'd pay a couple of hundred quid for a divine pube.

And then, when the master dies, Elan Vital could take a leaf out of the Catholic Church's book and bottle various organs, which would then be auctioned off on the Internet and placed in various shrines around the planet.

There would be international festivals centred around different body parts, 'Big Toe Puja' etc. Maybe there'd be enough for each community to have its own holy relic.

Shit, I could have made it big in the cult with ideas like this. Maybe I should mend my ways, go back, and offer to set it up (for a small percentage of course).

Anth the Bitter Cynical Mutilator of All That Is Holy and Good.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 15:50:59 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: 'Holy Water'
Message:
Jeez, it's been so long I had completely forgotten about 'holy water.' Am I dreaming, or wasn't it supposed to have some of His bath water in it?

If you're an EV PWK, this is how it worked. After satsang, we'd sing Arti ('You are my mother, you are my father...' etc), while one lucky premie waved a tray with a ghee-soaked cotton ball candle in front of a picture of the Master. Then someone would give each premie a teaspoonful of holy water, which he/she would receive in humbly cupped hands and drink or spread on face/hair, according to his/her personal self-baptismistory preferences.

One time I put a jar of this stuff in a the mailbox of a premie couple in Indiana. They thought it was the work of some neighborhood kids who'd been harassing them; they poured it down the sink. We were all mortified by the incident. Holy water treated like that! Surely we were guilty of some sort of sin! Secret shame. Or was it just water? The doubts were always there. It was always just a little too weird, wasn't it?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 00:15:16 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: 'Holy Water'
Message:
Dear Gregg,
Thanks, I had happily thought I missed the holy water thing until your post jogged my memory! Still it didn't hold much meaning for me. I was just going through the motions like genuflecting at mass. More mindless, meaningless ritual.
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 16:17:33 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: 'Holy Water'
Message:
Hi Greg,

Yes, 'charanamrit' was it's name. It got stronger, the more you diluted it. I remember our house mother used to put a few drops into the cooking each night, to purify us even further.

anth the it didn't work on me (obviously).

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:27:36 (GMT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: 'Holy Water'
Message:
It got stronger, the more you diluted it.

Sounds like it works according to the laws of homeopathy.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 12:10:17 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: I deny it...
Message:
Charlie, like Sir Cliff, I've always denied being a homeopath.

Anth the sociopath maybe.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 07:41:46 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Susan
Subject: Bad, bad things would start to happen
Message:
Are we talking the same Disney ride where women flash their um, er, (can I say this here?) breasts, yes, BREASTS! And somewhere on the Internet are pictures of those breasts being flashed for the camera. Somebody help me, where are those pictures?

What would happen if premies knew they were on camera?

If Maharaji saw some a tasty tart would he stop the darshan line to allow for some advanced foot kissing? Would he take off his $90 socks and permit naked foot kissing?

Gotta go. Gotta go right now. Gotta find those naked pictures now! Foot fetish pictures! Yeah, that's what I want. Big ugly smelly feet with corns, bunions, and crooked toes.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 19:51:48 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Hey, Roger!
Message:
Rog: Ex's never cease to amaze me. Do you realize how much money we could make if we were unethical enough to put our 'cult knowledge' ideas to work? Susan's post is the most recent in an entire series of posts that have to do with money making ideas (just the ones I've seen. I have no idea how many I've missed!)........ Jeez, we could be cult-consultants!

Ex's really ARE dangerous people; the knowledge they have is first-hand. They KNOW what works and what doesn't... he he he :-)

Ok, you guys..... Patent Pending!

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 08:59:13 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Oooh Roger....
Message:
...all this talk of naked feet and breasts. I've gone all funny.

Anth the Late Developer

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 03:38:12 (GMT)
From: Mu
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I am the serenest!
Message:
HAHAHAHAHAH!

gleeful

HOHOHOHOHOHO!

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 21:02:14 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: LOL! **BEST** if it doesn't infringe copyright law
Message:
WWF (or whatever), guru division! Thanks, Mu...
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 00:44:43 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Ms. K
Subject: LOL! **BEST** if it doesn't infringe copyright law
Message:
Well, I might ***BEST*** it or at least link to it.

But, I'm getting ready to move out to the Silicon Valley for some training before I move to Thousand Oaks, CA where the job is. Might have to wait.

But, I will stay in touch from various Internet Cafes in every little town along the way on the blue highways.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 18:58:20 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: OH MY GAWD!
Message:
Mu: this is GREAT stuff! BWAH HA HA HA HA! It's kinda like the old hack from M, 'God is great, but Guru is greater.....' Grandiose egos think alike, no?
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 19:04:48 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Prahbupada is dead, btw (nt)
Message:
HE HE HE HE HE nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 13:25:32 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: I am the serenest!/No, Fatso Ji is!
Message:
A victory here would do wonders for the propogation effort!
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:02:18 (GMT)
From: Untimely Serene
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: You are all wrong!!!!!
Message:
Since my untimely slip into the world of ultimate serenity (via a bar of soap), I haven't breathed in eons! Eat that, you pseudo-yogi you!

SRI HANS RULES!!!!!!

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:19:29 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Untimely Serene
Subject: You are all wrong!!!!!
Message:
Well at least you didn't spell it selene

Shri Hans Rules over a hoard of weath accumulated by convincing
dupes he owns meditation techniques that have been around for ages and that he has some special power to transmit them with
some with a higher voltage than the person can learn themselves or obtain elsewhere.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:40:12 (GMT)
From: HSDG Shreik MahaGuru G Ji
Email: None
To: ALL SENTIENT BEINGS
Subject: NO, I AM THE SERENEST YOU G#@!*(+ A*#@*@! M@*^!@*
Message:
!@*#@^ !!!!!!!!!!

His Serene Divine Grace Shreik MahaGuru G Ji

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 21:52:22 (GMT)
From: Untimely Serene
Email: None
To: HSDG Shreik MahaGuru G Ji
Subject: NO, I AM THE SERENEST YOU G#@!*(+ A*#@*@! M@*^!@*
Message:
Nuh, uhhhh...... Your name is too long. It makes one un-serene just saying it! Now, Shri Hans..... that's the ticket! Nice, short, to the point....

Shri Hans, Untimely Serene, tee-shirts go on sale in the lobby immediately following the show. Along with the tee-shirt, you get a complimentary bar of soap! So you can celibrate (or is it celibate) my 'untimely' serene-ness.

Signed,
Shri Hans..... keeper of ALL serenity (and don't you fergit it!)

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 20:46:20 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: HSDG Shreik MahaGuru G Ji
Subject: NO, I AM THE SERENEST YOU G#@!*(+ A*#@*@! M@*^!@*
Message:
ah feels like old times.
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 13:45:20 (GMT)
From: Loafji
Email: Loafji@yahoo.com
To: Angry
Subject: I am the serenest!/No, Fatso Ji is!
Message:
I resemble that last remark - and I havn't exhaled for 3 years

Lao f

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 12:04:38 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: No, Mu, you are the slowest breather...
Message:
Get a grip and take a few deep ones for the gipper.

Remember:

1) Jim Fixx, the jogging guru, dropped dead of a heart attack whle jogging.

2) Arnold Ehret, the founder of the mucusless diet healing system, was walking through his garden one day and a cocoanut dropped out of a palm tree, hit him on the head and killed him.

3) I went to MU back in '69! Wazzat you, Mieu?

4) Serenity isn't measured by how few breaths ya take, Moo.
Your in the right church but the wrong pew, Mew.

5) Nice hair.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 17:17:17 (GMT)
From: Mu
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: No, Shp, you are the slowest...idiot
Message:
It was for fun! Go into the light. Stop. Don't go into the light.
Seems interesting that some people are so 'adept' at meditation that they can turn it off and on at will. And, make it like a hot dog eating contest. In the meantime, premies just lick thier snot and pray to fatasshole to get the money to buy another 'event' tape.

HAHAHAHAHAH! and HOHOHOHOHOHO!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 11:38:56 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: Mu, you are gasping at straws
Message:
Maybe if you slowed your JUDGEMENT OF OTHERS, including Maharaji, down to 1.89 per minute you'd be getting somewhere in the direction of the real heaven which you may or may not be seeking, what with that big fat yoga-ego you have to shlep around with you to keep your trip going. Hey, I could be wrong...

You self-professed perfect beings ought to go buy an island somewhere and spend the rest of your lives picking nits off each other and wearing sandwich board mirrors so you could see yourselves all day long and how perfect you are.

As for me, I'm hanging out with the humans and dealing with it. It has its ups and downs, but as I learn to see the perfection that exists in the eyes of each person (even you) and practice Knowledge, I get closer to having the indescribeable experience commonly referred to as 'that experience'.

When you can convert 'that experience' into 'this experience', we will have something to talk about, Mu. Until then, I am not holding my breath, so to speak.

Keep those nostrils well-swabbed and oiled. At the rate you are going, you will have a mint-condition nose when you are old and gray. Perhaps you will be able to make some money in your old age letting doctors stick microcams up your pristine proboscus.

Namaste,

Shp

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 02:03:45 (GMT)
From: Mu
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: So, you do appreciate satire!
Message:
Don't you? You do get that the serenest was satire? It was in The Onion for cripes sake.

Hey, Shp, after I realized k I didn't need fatso anymore! That was before you got k probably.
Hell's bells, boy, I realized k before I got k! I am old.

I am more serene than you are!
I am more serene than you are!
I am more serene than you are!
Nani nani pooh pooh! Hah hah hah!

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 03:11:03 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: 'satire in yer kurta...
Message:
or are ya just happy to see me?

So you are more immersed in infinity than me, eh?
Verrrrrry interesting.

Didja know there's a sect of monks somewhere up Tibet way who get so blissed out they laugh and laugh and laugh...or maybe it's the other way around. Doctors and scientists studying them have proven that certain capillaries in the brain open up only when a person laughs real hard for long periods of time, you know, when it kind of pounds a little behind the ears and even tingles a little? And supposedly, the circulation from those capillaries feeds parts of the brain that help induce a state of great well-being and peace.

So HAHAHAHOHOHO to you too!

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 14:45:26 (GMT)
From: An Occassional Observer
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Shp you forgot to mention...
Message:
.....Param Hans Shri Hans Ji Maharaj, who came with all 64 divine powers, who died from slipping on a piece of soap in the bath.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 23:00:40 (GMT)
From: Another Observer
Email: None
To: An Occassional Observer
Subject: Shp you forgot to mention...
Message:
Not that it matters AOO, as Shri Hans introduced many thousands of people to their OWN profound beauty during his life, something I'd venture to guess you'd hardly claim for yourself...

BUT

What basis do you have for believing that story anyway, other than reading it here where the level of credibility is obviously so shoddy and the sole purpose is to make Maharaji look bad? So much else that's written here is wildly inaccurate speculation and you venture to be an expert on something that occurred in 1966?

What have you done in your life, anyway, that qualifies you to make fun of someone such as Shri Maharaji? Who exactly have YOU inspired? I'd love to hear.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 05:36:01 (GMT)
From: An Occcassional Observer
Email: None
To: Another Observer
Subject: I am guilty of........
Message:
bringing several thousand people to the one you worship.

I agree with Shp that it's not important how someone dies, the point was illustrating one of the many lies that dlm/ev disseminate.

I lived for a long while in India with many premies. I also stayed at m's ashram in Maharoli(delhi) and spent much time with hans's devotees who explained to me that it's ok to lie on behalf of the guru(it's called justified divine perception).
(BTW how do you know that hans had 100s of followers?)

Hans and his son are protected by his their dishonest followers just as sai baba followers justify his sexual molestation of his own followers.Same with Moon.

If you gat a chance go to Maharoli ashram and seek out sone of the long term families who were hans's devotees when he was alive.

M's biggest mistake is his long term silence on followers sufferings.

I haven't seen him speak for a few years now, but the last time I did see him he said:
'Isn't it fantastic that in this age the Master doesn't have to know the names of his students'.

You sanctimoneosness won't wash here. We've there and extracated ourselves.

Don't you find it frustrating that there is no officially-sacnctioned site by m for premies to have open discussion?

Oh by the way, if ypu get to Maharoli and Sampranand is there, observe hoe he terats the people there , particularly the young females.


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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 17:08:46 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: An Occcassional Observer
Subject: Thank you for the input...
Message:
I like accurate information.
Thank you for sharing your direct experience.
That means more to me than concepts and philosophies.
I am not being sanctimonious. If's that's how you read me, then either I am coming off that way unknowingly, or you have some bias towards me and anything I say is magnified by it.
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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 00:04:45 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Another Observer
Subject: Shp you forgot to mention...
Message:
Yeah, what AO said!
I never heard about Shri Hans' manner of leaving his body, and you know what? It doesn't matter! It's how he lived that counts, not what killed him.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 11:52:19 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: An Occassional Observer
Subject: Shp you forgot to mention...
Message:
Dear OO,

He did not die from slipping on soap. He died from the fact that he stopped breathing. This is the cause of death in all cases.
The rest are details.

Your post has no meaning. Shri Hans life was not about soap or not soap. The people I mentioned were proponents of things that they said would extend life. The irony of what I said was that the very thing that they pushed was instrumental in killing them.

Shri Hans was not talking about soap and he never claimed that Knowledge would extend life, just fulfill it.

He fell. He died. Rest in Peace, Shri Hans.

As for you, OO, you've got the hard part. You have to live with yourself and your flawed thought processes which made you think you had anything of substance to say about this.

You get an 'A' for shock tabloid effects by using Shri Hans and
an 'F' for substance and transitive thinking.

Where there is life there is hope.

If Shri Hans and his son are not your cup of tea, see Mu.
Maybe you and he have some things in common you can vibe on.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 16:08:46 (GMT)
From: An Occassional Observer
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Shp you forgot to mention...
Message:
'He fell. He died. Rest in Peace, Shri Hans'

Could you explain to us the 64 divine powers hans claim4ed to have?

What do you think about the fact that your teacher has lied all these years about hans's death?
I suppose this is another thing that premies shove under the carpet just like m's protection of Jagdeo.

AOO

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 20:54:43 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: An Occassional Observer
Subject: Reply to AOO
Message:
Don't have the answer to the 64 technique question.

Love covers them all, I am sure.

Don't know details about Shri Han's death and don't know about information surrounding same.

I don't like lumpy rugs either.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 17:59:26 (GMT)
From: An Occassional Observer
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Was Hans a psychic?
Message:
Just re-read the thread and you are right in that I didn't exactly keep to the subject....However it did prompt me to re-read hans's satsangs.

Here is a quote from one of hans's satsangs about the necessity to constantly remember the holy name because we don't know when death will come.

'Noone can say where this body will end, in what condition it will go, at what time it will go, what it's fate will be in the end. Suppose lightening will fall on me or I meet a lion
in the forest and it eats me up. Suppose I slip on the floor and my head is fractured....'

Well Shp ? What do you think was he giving his devotees a hint?
Do you constantly remember the name?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 21:00:09 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: An Occassional Observer
Subject: Was Hans a psychic?
Message:
Well Shp ? What do you think was he giving his devotees a hint?
Do you constantly remember the name?

~I am remembering the Name as I write you now. Now is all I can account for accurately. Now is where it all is.

~What Shri Hans was doing when he siad what he said is not something I am going to try to second guess. What do you think?

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 05:56:06 (GMT)
From: AOO
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Evil flourishes where good people do nothing
Message:
'I am remembering the Name as I write you now. Now is all I can account for accurately. Now is where it all is.'

Typical 'new age copout'. It's attitudes like this that allow the Jageos and Padarthanands of this world to exist.

'What Shri Hans was doing when he siad what he said is not something I am going to try to second guess. What do you think?'

I have no doubt that he didn't know he was going to die in that way at that time. Only people awaiting execution or planned suicidees( like many premies did) know their manner of death.

AOO

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 17:21:02 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: AOO
Subject: Evil flourishes where good people do nothing
Message:
'I am remembering the Name as I write you now. Now is all I can account for accurately. Now is where it all is.'

Typical 'new age copout'. It's attitudes like this that allow the Jageos and Padarthanands of this world to exist.

~Not really.

'What Shri Hans was doing when he said what he said is not something I am going to try to second guess. What do you think?'

I have no doubt that he didn't know he was going to die in that way at that time. Only people awaiting execution or planned suicidees( like many premies did) know their manner of death.

~No so. Check out Yogananda's autbiography. I know there are some Native Americans chiefs who knew and actually went up to the hill, laid down on their own pyre, and split. No references right at the moment, but it was not uncommon. Not just in the movies.

~I do agree with Edmund Burke's quote you began your post with.
I use it all the time myself. And I do agree that something is very uncomfortable about the Jagdeo matter.

~The whole world is coming together, cultures are meshing and sometimes colliding, and I know there are some customs and accepted behaviors and manners of dealing with things from other places that bother me too.

The thing about lying for the Master being OK to do, I never heard that. What I heard M say was to be immaculate legally.

Peace

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 09:03:38 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: Brilliant.
Message:
...but I won't get to sleep tonight trying to think of the answer to the koan. (Yes I know you're not supposed to think about it, but I can't help it.)

Anth (Knows the Sound of One Gland Flapping)

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 04:34:23 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: I am the serenest!
Message:
Dear Mu,
What a riot! :) May breath slow and get blissed out but I don't think he's learned detatchment! hahahaha!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 00:43:27 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: brauns@dircon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: An Invitation to a Special Evening
Message:
Just a reminder that all are invited to an evening of convivial good humour at the Latvian club in central London on Saturday, 12th February, starting at approximately 7:30 - 8.00 pm.

Exes from the USA, France, Durham, and London are expected. Just as premies visit this site and are welcome as long as they behave, premies are welcome to join us on Saturday.

Anyone who needs directions, please email me.

John (currently in North Scotland)

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 09:09:14 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: John, you forgot...
Message:
...to give them the phone number where they put their name down for a ticket, and the address they go to the day before to pick the ticket up.

Also, as we're expecting about 8 people to show up, we'll need at least 5 Ushers, two security and one co-ordinator.

I'd like to be the co-ordinator if that's ok.

Fine. Do I have a budget by the way?

Anth (putting all that experience to good use at last).

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 12:18:00 (GMT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: John, you forgot...
Message:
John, you also forgot to mention the obligatory pie in the face which all premies must endure if they want to attend, and the sheep dogs who will be available to lick off the remnants.


Love, Know It All

PS Will there be a metal detector? How about a bullshit detector?

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 09:58:05 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: OK, I volunteer
Message:
do the AV, or translation.

Who's going to MC?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 00:47:47 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: OK, I volunteer
Message:
Dear JM and all you crazy kids,
You'd better do the AV Jean-Michel, I want a copy, can we pass it around like LOTU!
I'll be astro planing there myself, do I still need a ticket? :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 10:37:47 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: How about Hamzen?
Message:
...he's usually the life and soul of the party for the first three hours. Then he rounds it off with a wonderful impersonation- he's done 'sack of coal falling off the back of a lorry,' 'spontaneous fountains', 'man who can't remember how to walk'. Ah, such romps!

Anth the Zeltad

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 10:35:01 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Toe kissing
Message:
I volunteer to have my toes kissed, and will gladly accept donations, especially cash.

Love, Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 01:41:04 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Toe kissing
Message:
I'm up for it - what is the 'suggested' donation?

John.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 10:39:05 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Toe kissing
Message:
Dear John,
If Anth is going to make Marianne first stand outside and watch his bike, I think the toe kissing ceremony should begin with a ritual washing and anointing of the feet. :) I will leave the donations up to Anth or Marianne as I do not know the proper edicit of such things.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 10:40:42 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Sorry Marianne...
Message:
...you're down to co-ordinate transport security from 9 to midnight.

You have to stand outside the club and make sure nobody steals my bicycle.

We'll bring you out a bottle of lemonade and a packet of Latvian crisps.

Anth the Co-ordinator (it sounds so good)

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 12:05:29 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Selling And It Is Divine
Message:
Well, coordinating transport sounds a whole lot better than sitting at a table selling AIID while Millennium went on at the Astrodome. Yeah, I travelled all the way across the US to sell magazines, that all the premies already owned.....

Does this make me a member of WPC?

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 14:05:32 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: EV trinkets, anybody?
Message:
What should I bring? Beside His watch (patent pending), I still own tons of stuff..... Wahadamar videos? Mouse pads? Frames? Mugs?

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 21:47:36 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: EV trinkets, anybody?
Message:
Hmm... trinkets - I reckon there's money to be made here. Anyone got any suggestions for wording on t-shirts?

John.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 22:02:10 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Almost outed - ouch!
Message:
Now that everyone knows that Jim and I go way back, the inevitable question is, 'What's he really like.' Well, he's decent, smart, funny, and generous.

For example, a middle-aged, dishevelled, working class guy came into the center one night, obviously distraught. He was bitching about how his boss had ripped him off and how he didn't have enough money to feed his kids. He was obviously desperate. Jim gave him money right out of his own pocket, his meagre ashram allowance, just like that. He probably doesn't remember that but I do.

That's what kind of a guy he is. Hard to believe considering some of the shenanigans that have gone down here isn't it? It's sad when you consider how it has all turned out, with his present fanatical hatred for M and Knowledge. Oh well.

Going to take it easy for while. It's been fun posting. Taking a break.

-- Dep

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 11:55:47 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: There's a little good in the worst of us...
Message:
...and a little bad in the best of us.

Cliche or reality?

I say reality.

Only the Knowledge, the presence within, (or whatever you want to call it) is perfect. Remember?

Whether a man sits on a hill his whole life and enjoys it without messing with anyone else, or immerses himself in selfless service, is in the realm of free will. The judge of either of those people is not present on this site posting.

So kudos to random and conscious acts of kindness, and blessings and more power to those who do them.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 16:41:27 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: There's a little snot in the best of us
Message:
Hi Sandy,

How are ya doin'?

I'd like to take you up on something I've been chewing over for a while. It's this thing that premies say about 'knowledge' being the same as the perfection within.

As my understanding goes, knowledge is what you experience when you do the four techniques right?

Now, what I experienced, for example, when I did the fourth technique, hour after hour, day after day, was snot. How can this possibly be associated with the holy spirit within me?

What I see now Sandy, is that, sure I had experiences when I practised. But they weren't anything that could in anyway be called experiences of perfection, or spirit or anything like that. As a premie I was programmed to believe this is what it was, but we all know God doesn't taste of snot don't we?

Anth the Thinker with a Runny Nose.

ps Sandy, check out http://website.lineone.net/~anthginn/

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 12:51:02 (GMT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: There's a little snot in the best of us
Message:
Hi Sandy,

How are ya doin'?

~In a word, good. How about you?

I'd like to take you up on something I've been chewing over for a while.

~That might be part of the problem. You're not supposed to chew it, Anth!

It's this thing that premies say about knowledge' being the same as the perfection within.

~Let me define 'perfection' as I honestly perceive it:
The best feeling I have ever had, usually accompanied by extremely pleasureable tactile and subtle experiences touching the usual five physical senses and some other senses that I don't have names for. This gives me a feeling - more a realization and knowing - of my own personal fulfillment as a crated human being. Like when your light is flickering and you put the plug that was half out all the way into the socket and the light goes on bright and full and stops flickering. Or when you take your car out to the highway to blow out the tubes and give it a good run. Yeah, the bulb will still blow out someday and the car will junk out after time, but that is not the issue. Nobody promised us eternal life in the same body.

As my understanding goes, knowledge is what you experience when you do the four techniques right?

~I have experienced Knowledge from practicing the four techniques. I have also experienced Knowledge for no apparent reason at seemingly random times during the day. I remember having some of the experiences before I ever heard of Maharaji.
Hors D'ouvres served to me in my youth by the grace to whet my appetite for the main course.

~For me, Knowledge is an access key I can use anytime, whereas previously the experience would come and go for no apparent reason and without notice. When I practice, it's not always fireworks inside, figurtively speaking. But when I practice, the wake of the Knowledge carries me above all of the everyday troubles and problems, but I can still deal with them and calmly...as a matter of fact, I am mentally sharper, not in a blissful stupor that paralyzes me to act, as many think it does. those people would be in a stupor either way, most likely.

~I think the goal is to be in the experience of the bliss 24/7 and still be able to function in the everyday world.
Heaven on Earth, same place it's always been. Remember where Zeus hid the keys to Olympus? (I know it's a legend, but the point is timelessly true.)

Now, what I experienced, for example, when I did the fourth technique, hour after hour, day after day, was snot. How can this possibly be associated with the holy spirit within me?

~You never tasted something really sweet or really subtle associated with a flowery fragrance from no ouside source and there were no outer physical stimuli present? Maybe you have a condition that needs treatment or adjustment, perhaps your body produces too much snot.

~A blind person see the inner light, a deaf person can hear the inner music and a person without a tongue can taste the nectar.
Perhaps you are putting too much empahsis on the physical and taste and maybe that's why you taste only snot. Sometimes it's very subtle, not real strong. The techniques are not the experience, and should not be forced. The way you describe how you practiced above sounds very forced - 'hour after hour, day after day'. Sounds like a drag the way you put it. It's where your whole head is at, not just your tongue.

What I see now Sandy, is that, sure I had experiences when I practised. But they weren't anything that could in anyway be called experiences of perfection, or spirit or anything like that. As a premie I was programmed to believe this is what it was, but we all know God doesn't taste of snot don't we?

~Snot is also part of the Oneness, brother Anth. But seriously, if I felt like you do, I'd just go with the best doggone experience I ever had, find the well it comes from, and build my life around that well. If it dries up, find another. I believe that Maharaji showed me the well inside that will be with me for the duration of my life and will not be affected by the outer climate. For me, practicing Knowledge is priming the pump of my own well of joy which allows me to draw from it deeper every day.

~Maharaji is a man. He has flaws. He said so.
It's the Knowledge that opens up the experience of perfection.
He took Knowledge to the world at large, amde it available to anyone. That was his job and he did it and continues to. I am grateful to him for doing that. I usd to get hung up on the words. Now not as much. He said not to focus so much on the little guy on the stage. I have taken him at his word. It's working for me.

Love from your brother,
Sandy the Well and getter weller the deeper I drink

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 22:05:28 (GMT)
From: Candy
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: At Last, More Snotsang from Anth!!
Message:
I'd been holding my breath (and my hankie) waiting for more and, at last, it's here!!

Like mucous to my ears...ahhhh, the wisdom of Anth! May it never stop pouring down.

You fan the phlegms of true awareness with your spectacular perceptions, never ceasing to a-nase me!

Once again, Bless You, Your Sinus.

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Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 12:17:34 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Candy
Subject: At Last, More Snotsang from Anth!!
Message:
What can i spray in reply Candy.

I had to reach for my tissue. Snot often I get a letter dripping with such fluid and moving wisdom.

Tis' you who inspires my innermost cavities.

For yeah I feel the sneeze for a song coming on,

'God is snot, and snot is got, and snot is truth and truth is grease, and we could glue with some today...'

Gorra go, mucus calling.

Anth the drip drip drip.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 22:05:13 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Oh, no... If I blow my nose does that mean I'm....
Message:
AJW: blowing g........ NO, NO I ain't goin' there and you can't make me..... he he he. So, let's talk about this snot-fixation that you have....

This technique, more than any of the others, confused the heck out of me. How can a physical tongue (an organ with a real sense that detects exceedingly small MOLECULAR quantities) taste a non-physical 'spiritual' thing? Of course, I never said this aloud back in my hayday, although I wish I had. Does that mean we have 'spirit' tongues, too? How about spirit eyes and spirit ears? Spirit bodies? Spirit 'private parts?' Hmmmmm spirit private parts.... hmmmmm..... Hey, I'm just taking it to its logical conclusion. So, given the truth of my preceeding rant, then we must have spirit 'snot' because we have spirit noses. And if the 'taste' of spirit-snot is god, then when I blow my nose, I really am blowing g......... :-)

How's that for exceedingly silly? :-)

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 10:50:23 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Fanaticism
Message:
Hi Dog,

It's wierd how anyone who criticises your master over here is branded, a 'fanatic', or 'hate filled'.

The real fanatics over here are the guru worshipers like yourself Dog, who take an everday description like, 'chubby Indian cult leader with a taste for expensive cars' as some kind of put down and attack on the guru, when really it's just a straightforward, factual description.

You see Dog, if Elan Vital was really a cult, just like the Moonies and the Hare Krishnas, then everything we said over here would make perfect sense wouldn't it?

But it's not like that really is it Dog, because he's the Living Perfect Master right? Here with the knowledge of ultimate truth for all those willing to fill out a standing order.

Enjoy your break, looking forward to your coagulation.

Anth the Hate Filled Fanatic.

ps We all knew Jim was a big cuddly softie anyway. Did you know he also loves kittens, puppies and little children?

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:52:55 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Almost - You're a strange one Dep
Message:
Why mention it? I must have missed something
I'm too lazy to read all the posts, you post a
lot and I said I didn't read them. I don't but
couldn't resist that subject line.
Well, I think it's good to get out of here at
least for a break. I hear there's things like
family, friends, nice weather, stuff outside to do
books, movies.. exercise....
I vaguely remember such stuff from a few months
ago!
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Maybe I'll join you in 'that world'
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 00:59:24 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: How in the world do you remember
Message:
shit like that? I sure don't.

But thanks for the strokes anyway. No I really don't recall that moment but let's not forget, I probably thought I was buttering a chapati for my Lord, disguised as a dog, so to speak.

So you're leaving for a bit? Why not think up a proper responsive reply to the question below for your return?

If you need any more quotes, let me know. :)

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 00:52:09 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Almost outed - ouch!
Message:
Ever wondered why such good men as Jim left Maharaji's ship? Maharaji had the cream of a generation under his influence.

And you know what he did with all those fine young men and women? He used them up and spat them out, that's what he did. He never appreciated the people he had at his beck and call. He really didn't appreciate the jewels of humanity he had within his grasp.

He only had Dollars in his eyes. God, what a waste.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:54:38 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Almost outed - ouch!
Message:
Maharaji had the cream of a generation under his influence?

Isn't that what we all thought back then? That we were the cream of the crop? Nonsense! The cream of the generation were the one's who didn't kiss his feet.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 10:54:07 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Cream is from cows, not crops (nt)
Message:
moooo!
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 02:01:19 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Somewhere in between?
Message:
Dave, Pman,

I think the truth is m struck like a virus. Some got it, some didn't. Smart people fell as did dummies. Rich, poor. Coulda been anyone.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 02:48:03 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Somewhere in between?
Message:
Jim,
There were some patterns. It was mostly caucasion, middle to upper-middle class, college eligible kids. I think. Is that wrong? Most had done drugs and had been politically liberal to radical. And most, if not all, had been unknowingly looking for the Lord their entire lives. Hahahahahaha.

But really, this was a very annoying group of people. You may argue it was the tubby-lord-virus but I wonder if there isn't an undiscovered shared gene that didn't contribute.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 11:22:03 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Am I being too hard here?
Message:
Hi Powerman,

talking of patterns in people who are cult material, I've a suspicion that many of us had 'problem father figures', who were maybe alcoholic, or abusive in some way. (I had plenty of furniture thrown at me when I was a kid. I got so good at dodging I had a trial for the County rugby team.) You don't need to know how to spell 'pyschology' to figure out why the Perfect Master could fit the need for a 'father figure' in our lives.

Christ, most people around the residence in England in the 80s used to call Maharaji 'dad' and Marylin 'mom'. You'd sit around the kitchen table at a support house, and everyone would say, 'Mom said this..' 'Or 'Dad' did such and such..'. (I'm happy to say I could never spit the words out. I'd look at Marylin and think, 'You're definitely not my mum.' There was always the worry though, that those who called them 'mum and dad', were in a higher state of realisation than me.)

When I was a premie, I remember when someone 'normal' got involved in the cult. I'd look on them as representatives from another world- the one we wanted to flood with 'knowledge', but somehow would always get turned away at the door. There was the idea that, if somehow we could get people who were 'normal' into it, they would be our 'trojan horse' and 'knowledge' would spread faster than hot ghee on a fat mahatma's arse.

But there's a catch. Anyone who comes near Maharaji with a quarter of a brain and a gram of intelligence sniffs 'cult' and runs a mile. If it's a friend who has introduced them, the friend drops down a couple of notches on the 'sussed about life' meter.

So what we ended up as (if my hypothesis holds water) was a bunch of casualties from dysfunctional homes, drug abuse, etc, sitting in rooms telling each other that we had the answer and everyone else on earth was in ignorance. We told each other it hour after hour, night after night, month after month, year after year, and we finally ended up believing it. This way we didn't have to go out there and deal with that nasty world outside (which had given us a pretty shit time up to then anyway).

Or am I being too hard here?

Anth the Dark

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 22:09:10 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Wha.. huh??? Ghee.... did someone say ghee? (nt)
Message:
BWAH HA HA HA HA HA
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 16:52:40 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Roger....best of material above!
Message:
Anth, I wholeheartedly agree with your observations. Mom and Dad. Ecckk....I had forgotten that. I feel ill. That is really ugly cult speak.
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 17:01:28 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: roger
Subject: Please call it 'Hot Ghee on a Fat Mahatma's Arse'
Message:
I nearly choked on my coffee with that line. Anth you are too funny.
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 15:44:28 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Am I being too hard here?
Message:
Anth,
I think you hit the nail on the head. I suspect there were some differences in different countries but there must be some key ingredient that allows one to hear the special sort of garbage we listened to, and not turn and run.

I don't remember m and marolyn referred to as mom and dad in the U.S. but that same sick, reverential tone was there. One ashram guy made a fuss in his satsang about not washing your t-shirt with maharaji's photo embazoned on it, with your underwear. No one questioned the utter tackiness of putting someone's photo on a t-shirt; just washing it with dirty underwear.

But I do remember a few 'normal' people; people who had no distinguishing marks from regular people. I always saw it as evidence that m was real and the Lord.

Right around the time I got involved (1976), premies starting trying to dress normal so knowledge could be spread. They switched from hippie-clothes to polyester long-sleeve button down shirts and slacks with leather shoes, and guys had short hair cuts.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 13:05:17 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Am I being too hard here?
Message:
Dear Anth,
I agree with what you said, it is amazing the numbers of us from dysfunctional homes. For me my dad had a few big things that he did that were really bad but was the better parent by far. My mother was the one with the 6ft leater dog leash folded in half beating the crap out of all of us, shutting windows so neighbors would only hear muffled screaming and throwing chemistry sets and record albums at us.
I am just realizing that this is one reason I am so laid back today, to laid back, letting things that need my attention just set or slide by. This probably has a lot to do with why I was drawn into the cult but didn't get hooked real bad. After all these years of working on this shit some balance would be a nice 'gift'.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 04:39:48 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Somewhere in between?
Message:
Pman,
'But really, this was a very annoying group of people.'
Hey, maybe this is why we fight so much today!
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 06:12:05 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Somewhere in between?
Message:
Bingo.
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 07:11:38 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Jim is wrong Powerman is right.....
Message:
ha ha made you look Jim.

But I do think Powerman is right and that well, um, your theory is not backed up with my experience.

I think there was something that made us susceptable to Rawat's virus. Or maybe most people are inoculated against cults in childhood. But there are just many, if not most, personality types that would not fall for Rawat's BS. I think there was something about us that allowed us to be taken in. Probably the same thing that made people fall for Moonies and Khrishnas.

Pman pointed out age and a certain type of upbringing were common threads. We all knew exceptions. God, those exceptions were paraded about to make the cult look like it was an equal opportunity rip off. But the old men, the blacks, the republicans, were cult anomalies.

I tried like hell to spread the virus at my high school and only spread it once and she got well quickly. I think most people are immune.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 15:54:47 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Jim is wrong Powerman is right.....
Message:
I think it's interesting there were hardly any blacks in the cult. Perhaps the cult was just too white or maybe it was just too street-dumb. Or maybe after a hundred years of recent slavery, Jim Crow laws, and being second-class citizens, there was just no temptation to give up worldly goodies to be a piece of dust.

One thing's for sure... although there may have something beautific in satsang, it didn't have any rhythym and soul.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 23:50:46 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Powerman
Subject: Demographics is a whole other story
Message:
Sure, there were few black and fewer Vietnamese fishermen from southern Louisiana. Of course the majority of premies were from the mainstreamm, whiter society that was then so enchanted with things eastern. But that's a lot different than suffering from a certain psychological imbalance, syndrome or anything similiar. Disfunctional homes? Give me a break.
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 15:20:17 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Jim is wrong Powerman is right.....
Message:
Partly, partly, partly.

Listen, when I got k I was part of a group of -- here's a word I haven't used in a while -- 'freaks' who had been living together communally in Vancouver. Our house had split up but we were all still close. I went to Denver to join the cult and came bakc and gave satsang to everyone. Every single one of the other nine all got k except Rick (who strangely enough died the same day the rest got initiated. We were sure Maharaji had a 'special' place for him too.)

Now our house was just your average hippie house full of average hippies. Believe me, we represented a normal socio-economic cross-section of young Vancouverites in 72 / 73. And so did our many friends and associates, some 'straighter' than others (like work friends, for instance). Lots and lots of them got k. And a large number fo them stuck it out, for a while at least. Again, just a broad, cross-seciton of people young and naive enough to take Carlos Castenada seriously, to find Ram Dass wise.

I think the sense of otherness we felt towards 'normal' people that Anth mentions came later. Once we'd been in the cult for a few years, pretty well any outsider who had a job, let's say, appeared pretty normal and unique. That is, of course, until they joined the cult themselves.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 16:21:47 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: But the group of people you describe is a unique
Message:
subgroup. I think that even though there were many hippies then that even those who hippiedom appealed to were a subgroup themselves. Don't you think?

I myself was often trotted out to give satsang at bigger premie deals. I am sure this was not because I was a riveting speaker. It was because I WAS different because I was younger than the group. In fact, in our group another anomalous premie, an old lady, Shirley Kanarish bless her cantankerous soul and that she was, complained once about how often they let me give satsang because I was BORING. Shirley spoke her mind. She was this elderly red haired lady that was so strange. And frankly, not really all that nice. I was afraid of her. She had a big sign in her apartment about how she was a member of the anti vivesectionists. She died while I was still a premie and the premies held a service for her. That was kind of sweet.

What was I talking about?

Just that your cohort group was likely not really what we could call the population at large.

If you were a teen in the late seventies your friends were much more interested in Saturday Night Fever, disco, pep rallies, Quiana, gold chains etc. Being a guru chick when as I was labeled me a freak and uncool. But that did not deter me.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 11:32:44 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: An equation-
Message:
Hi Susan,

Yes, you're right, there must be lots of susceptible types of personality.

remebering that in the late 60s- early 70s- gurus, yoga and meditation were fashionable, maybe there's a sort of equation of cult susceptibility.

IF [PACKAGING IS FASHIONABLE] AND [VICTIM IS YOUNG] THEN [NEED FOR FATHER FIGURE] + [HISTORY OF DRUG ABUSE] = POTENTIAL CULT VICTIM.

Anth the Unfashionable Old Druggy Cult Victim who is now a Father Figure himself who has learned not the throw furniture at the children. (It's too expensive to replace. Better use bricks, bottles etc.)

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 16:13:11 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: An equation-
Message:
What distinguished maharaji from alot of the other yoga and meditation type stuff was that maharaji offered heaven on earth, said he was God, and required no skill to accomplish his spiritual discipline. You could be a virtual idiot with two left thumbs and not be at a handicap in realizing knowledge.

Furthermore, maharaji displayed no accomplished spiritual knowledge and didn't offer any. He had charisma and kept quiet enough about spiritual intricacies to not be found out. He showed no evidence of making great effort in spiritual practices and required his followers to sacrifice everthing while not really offering anything for them to really get their teeth into.

He was short and fat, and had a really annoying look on his face. He drove around in fancy cars and flaunted his wealth. Yet we all bought into it.

It's just too weird for there not to be any defining quality or characteristic that would predispose someone for this. It goes against the face of reason.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 18:57:10 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Forum Upgrade
Message:
I've been working on some changes for the last few weeks, and they seem to be working okay at this point. I'm sure if there are any problems in the code, they'll show up soon enough.

Forum Delays
I haven't been experiencing the slowdowns that have been affecting others. Katie has though, and she doesn't use the frames version, which I use exclusively. I did a test, and it turns out that the code that inserts the thread into the Read Message page is introducing a long delay in the process. That doesn't happen with the frames version, since the thread isn't included in the page as it's already visible in the left frame.

I'll rework the code and see if I can find a faster way to do that. It's going to take some time, though. So if slowdowns are a problem for you, consider using the frames version in the meantime.

Subject Field
The maximum length of a message Subject is now 50 characters.

Empty Fields
I've added Javascript to pre-check the message fields before submitting it to the server. You should now get a pop-up box notifying you that you left a field blank rather than have to hit your BACK button. That won't happen, however, if your browser doesn't support Javascript or if you have Javascript disabled in your browser settings.

Message Length
The maximum message length is now displayed above the message textarea. Javascript checks this length before submitting the form, so if you leave the field blank or if you insert too many characters you'll get another pop-up box notifying you.

Special Characters
Special character strings allow you to insert characers that aren't available on your keyboard (such as: ™ - created by inserting '& + trade;' into the text).

(In the course of trying to write that, I can see that there is still one more problem to overcome with these. I had to insert ' + ' to demonstrate the string used to encode the character. Omit that if you actually use them.)

I crippled these when I wrote the Forum III software, since browsers were crashing on some of them and I didn't have the time then to research the correct way to handle them.

The software now supports and allows these character strings in any of the message fields. I recommend that you always Preview your messages when you use these, since any that you mispell will not be rendered into characters by your (or anyone else's) browser. Instead the character string will remain as you (mis)typed it.

Exceptions
There are 4 characters that are not allowed to be inserted in the From, Email, To or Subject fields without being encoded:
& - encode as & + amp;
< - encode as & + lt;
> - encode as & + gt;
$ - encode as & + #36;

The first 3 are characters that are normally converted in HTML as they are reserved characters. The last one is one that Microsoft forced to be encoded when it adopted it internally in Internet Exploder.

I had been encoding these before sending them back, but doing so caused the field content to grow by 4 characters when the message was Previewed. You could then get a 'Field too long' error when you submitted the Previewed message.

So now you have to encrypt them yourself and the length of the encoded character string will affect the room left in the field for other letters. That only applies to these 4 characters, and only the 4 fields using INPUT boxes.

The only other 'problem' character is the double-quote mark. But these are always converted to single quotes - whether you encrypt them as ' or not.
So you can just insert them into your text and the software will convert them to single quotes automatically.

Maximum Word Length
The program no longer checks for this. It became too hard to figure out what wouldn't be considered a long word. Call it a poor idea that finally died. I was trying to 'moron-proof' the forum...

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 18:31:04 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Forum Upgrade
Message:
Yes, thanks, Brian.
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 11:36:28 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Thanks Brian.
Message:
Thanks alot Brian.

One day I'll learn how to put HTML into my post, then all will be clear.

Anth the Where's me tablets?

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:27:31 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Forum Upgrade - British tourist attractions
Message:
If you've not been to the lovely town of Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllandysiliogogogoch in North Wales, then you don't know what you're missing.
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 17:13:22 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Yes it works - thanks Brian, I really needed that
Message:
Now what about changing the colour from regulation ex-premie yellow? I'm sure Katie can come up with something.

What, you say regulation yellow was her idea?

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 19:26:55 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Great, excellent, and thank you very much.....(nt)
Message:
88
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:18:04 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: EV's officials concern
Message:
For those who don't know what an Elan Vital 'video event' looks like, or for those who haven't been there recently, here is how that place looks like these days ....

Watch this !

This most secret document is in every US co-ordinator's portfolio. It is part of the 'package' premies received in a 'training' seminar in Chicago, 2/99.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 04:51:23 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: E.V.Is getting your help
Message:
Hi JM,

The Co. in general are so shy and insecure, except of course Sharon Stocy, sturdy, you know? -Is she?-I'm thinking all these 'publishing' you are doing can end up getting E.V., I mean M.,the help they need. IMO, it has been informed bellow that a little help is needed and welcome, if any, if you want, HELLLLLLPPPPPP$$$$$$!!!Service. Desperation.

Yeah, so good to be in our minds, being ourselves, not his shadows. I read you got in trouble with EV and that they sent you email and they were pissed off? I was once one of the paper you posted shadows and it was no picnick. Mental torture sounds familiar? Hello Judy Ollman?! How are the Us aspirants doing? Are there many? Do you still appologize or better, rectify yourself while using the word thinking to change it for the word feeling? A friend asked me to address that --alleged or factual?- act of yours. Are you still the National Aspirant Contact? What were they thinking, my friend said? I know! Rawat put her there, my friend said. Right? Oh his ideas sometimes can be very funny, she said. I heard about you. Well, look at me: What was I thinking before 'my realization'?A devotee? Ooopps. Wrong door. I chose the other, of real freedom.
Bye Judy. Kiss kiss toes.

OOOPPS. I forgot I was talking to you JM. I'm so sorry, not.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 11:26:36 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: E.V.Is getting your help: more!
Message:
?-I'm thinking all these 'publishing' you are doing can end up getting E.V., I mean M.,the help they need.

They'll have to THINK. This is what they need. THINK and let other premies THINK on their own.

But then what's going to be the purpose of their enormous organization (30% of the premies involved in organizing their own activities!!!).

You know, all these team work trainings to get active premies together. How can you achieve this when you're not allowed to THINK? They've been trained for decades NOT TO THINK, and now you THINK they'll recover their brains? I doubt it. Not with Rawat's help anyway. He's a brain killer.

Can you imagine a world where people would feel. Feel, feel feel, whatever you do, wherever you go, feel feel feel.

What a stupid premie-zombie world.

What's going to be the next document published? Those Chicago conference booklets? The whole thing? The aspirants' guidelines? The fundraising guidelines? Yeah, that's a good one ..... I loved that part on 'private fundraising activity', dances, dinners, golf tournaments, etc .... Do you think they'll invite me? I'd love to participate.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 06:02:08 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: SB
Subject: Say what?
Message:
Holy Christ! Was that ever disjointed!
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:11:53 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: EV are obviously equal opportunity employers....
Message:
...because so many of the 'officials' at the back have no legs.
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 04:36:05 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: TD
Subject: I disagree - classic misogynists
Message:
Males roles:

AV - running the highly technical VCR and Stereo
MC - How many female MC's has Maharaji employed?
Event Manager - Without a doubt the Manager is a male
Video Selection - The Man is always in charge of selecting the movie
Contributions - Trust women with Maharaji's money? No way!
Usher - Historically a standard male role
Video Library - The videos belong to Maharaji

Female Roles:

Safety/Security - Kind of like the school nurse
Translation - To be expected. Most people prefer a woman's voice
HVAC/Lighting - Women are always more attuned to temperature and lighting. And interior decorators are typically women.
Information - Women are typically better in listening and communicating in a friendly manner
Team Synchronization - Women are always better on the phone than men
Sales - Women are better for sales. A little smile and the typical single and horny premie male will buy two or three videos more than he wanted just to impress the saleswoman

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:56:42 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: EV's officials concern
Message:
The guy at the bottom is wearing flared trousers. Couldn't help but notice this. It must be old seventies clip-art.
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 21:42:10 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: No, that's Sharon Stokke in a pants suit
Message:
The guy at the bottom is wearing flared trousers.

No, no, no! That's Sharon Stokke in a pants suit.

Elan Vital is not the stuffy dowdy Divine Light Mission of yesteryear and on Mr. Blackwell's Ten Most Wanted fugitives from fa-fa-fashion. Elan Vital is youthful, hip, and with it. Notice how Maharaji leaves two or even three buttons of his shirts unbuttoned to allow him to better mix in with the Rodeo Drive crowd. Elan Vital allows and permits women to wear the long DLM traditional sexless parachute frock, calf length skirts or even a smart looking pants suit. However, women arriving in culottes will be turned away at the door or, preferably, the parking lot.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:22:48 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: EV's officials concern
Message:
Bonjour Jean-Michel,

I particularly liked the shadowy figure standing behind the collection box. I assume he's there to stop some armed gang breaking into the video event and running of with the biscuit tin full of change.

abientot

Anth the Silhouette from Microsoft Clipart.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:55:02 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: those are mere shadows of men
Message:
and women. JM, thanks, how am I ever going to break my net addiction when I can count on you to make me laugh ( or sometimes cry ) every morning?
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:38:02 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Any premie
Subject: learning more
Message:
I keep on seeing the words 'learning more' and find the term confusing.

Would some premie list some of the things they have learnt from their teacher.

Jethro

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 19:38:27 (GMT)
From: Dunceoafdolt
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: learning more
Message:
1. How to talk a lot and say nothing.
2. The benefits of cheat and deceit.
3. The implementation of brainwashing.
4. Need I say more?
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 20:43:29 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Dunceoafdolt
Subject: learning more
Message:
Aaaaah an honest premie
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 13:55:11 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: revised journey
Message:

Hi everybody,
I have revised my journey somewhat. It is now available at the journeys section. There are some misspellings, I noticed, hope you can read it anyway.
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 22:45:35 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: Nice job of looking back on strange times Happy NT
Message:
text
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:30:42 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: revised journey
Message:
Also very interesting and insightful journey! Thanks!
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 18:24:01 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: thanks
Message:
Thanks Susan!

May I take the opportunity to say that your posts have always been very inspiring for me. Thank you for that. You are an important person in this ex-premie group.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 07:21:59 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: that was very nice. Thanks to you :) (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:26:26 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: computer spelling (ot)
Message:
Happy,

I have noticed my spelling is not up to par on the computer -vs- writing by hand- that is unless I have spell check. I think it is interesting because likely we are using different brain pathways for one -vs- the other and it seems the spelling is affected. I have always been a decent speller, not perfect but pretty good, but I read things I wrote and am suprised ( now that is one of those words that gets me either way)by what I see.

Perhaps it is just the feedback we get looking at the word we just wrote that lets us know we have goofed.

Nigel the psychologist and Anth the educator what do you think of my theory?

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:15:54 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: revised journey
Message:
Hi Happy,

I enjoyed your Journey. Lots of it sounded very familiar, except you escaped about 13 years before me.

I really liked the dream. It reminded me of something Maharaji said at Houston in 77- something like, 'I've taken you so high now, that if you leave me, you'll fall and break into a thousand pieces and never be able to be put back together again'.

Well, I'm happy to say, like you Happy, I bounced.

Anth the Saved by His Fat.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 18:37:51 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: thanks
Message:
Thanks, Anth, I have also noticed the similarities between aspects of your journey and mine!

And your association about the tower in my dream and M shattering into pieces instead of me the disciple, as it should be according to his 'scare' satsangs - that was brilliant. I didn't make that connection myself. You could be a psychoanalyst...

So, thanks to all of you who commented so kindly about on my journey - Way, Susan, AJW - I have to close the computer now, back again tomorrow.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:14:13 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: revised journey
Message:
Thanks much! Excellent work and a most revealing story.
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:50:51 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: thanks
Message:

...I appreciate it!
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:24:28 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: G
Subject: To G
Message:
Hey G,

How 'bout a journey entry from you?

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:10:20 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Journey
Message:
I'm not 'ready' to write a journey. Maybe later.
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 08:12:17 (GMT)
From: Justin Case
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: starseed transmission?
Message:
In 1993 my wife and I had drifted away from M but started a meditation group of our own.One evening my wife started speaking in Hebrew a language she didn't know,then in English.A group of disembodied past masters calling themselves the ashtar command told us to keep meditating on the breath as the Earth would soon be moving into the 5th dimension.For two years they continued the messages to us and many people came over to hear.The energy in the room at these channelings was incredibly powerful. Then as suddenly as it happened it stopped. Were these delusions?Has anyone else come into contact with these ascended masters?
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 18:36:39 (GMT)
From: Curly
Email: None
To: Justin Case
Subject: starseed transmission?
Message:
Well, I have an ex-girlfriend who speaks to angels. The funny thing is that you wouldn't know it from meeting her. She's a successfull lawyer (no, she's not Marianne though I wish she had been, *wink*), very serious, and very intelligent. She only speaks about her angel sessions with people who are close to her. Anyway, in January 98 she had a 'message' that the world would change physically and spiritually on September 1st., that there would be no water, food, or electricity for a few days. She gave me a call; I was visiting my sister and brother in law at the time, to let me know of this so I would take the precautions of storing candles, food and water. Anyway, being a good agnostic, I said ok, and then forgot about it. Besides, my brother in law was (he's changed since then, and now hangs out with rabbis, but that's another story) a hardcore atheist. I couldn't imagine telling him about this, he would have thought I was absolutely nuts!
When nothing happened, well, angels have a different way of telling time.....whatever.
She was very dissapointed but still has faith in this stuff. Funny how faith works.

Past masters? That's what the retired masters of the lodge are called in Freemasonry. I could have been one, but couldn't devote the time, and hated the politics involved.

Curly the fruitcake magnet

P.S. Marianne, I will write to you soon. I promise.

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 03:14:04 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Curly
Subject: starseed transmission?
Message:
Hey Curly!
It's really strange how angels have become these benevolent, androgynous groovey characters, when in the Hebrew scriptures (and somewhat in the Christian scriptures) they were one nasty piece of business. When angels showed up, someone usually got hurt. Jacob got his hip screwed up when he met an angel, and others had just as wonderful times and injuries when meeting these messengers. They were scary looking, too; that's why they always said 'fear not' when they popped onto the scene (to wreak some sort of havoc). If I saw an angel, I'd run the other way, and if I started getting messages from them, I'd probably get a CAT scan.
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 04:03:15 (GMT)
From: Curly
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: starseed transmission?
Message:
Oh yes, the ancient hebrews were not kidding around.

I actually have a translation of Torah (the Pentateuch) in which they chose to translate the hebrew words for 'angel' and 'cherub' to 'winged-sphinx' so that the reader will not picture some red-cheeked, plump toddler.

There are no description of angels in the jewish Bible. No one has a clear picture of what the authors meant. Later traditions make them out to be fiery beings.

I had a dream once (while dating this girl) that it was revealed to me that I was in reality an angel made of fire. The funny thing is that later in the dream I go to my shrink's office and tell him about it. He just exclaimed: 'Aw Curly, you are so narcisistic!'
I woke up laughing. When I told this to my shrink in our real sesion the next day, he really got a kick out of it. 'It is the first time a patient has told me a dream that interprets itself...'

Curly (it takes a fruitcake to attract a fruitcake)

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 20:14:47 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Curly
Subject: BWAH HA HA HA HA HA
Message:
Curly, you are TOO funny, man! Although short, it's a loaded 'yarn!' Thanks!

Oh yeah, I loved the 'signature,' too!

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:36:01 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Scott
Subject: HEY SCOTT!!!!!!!
Message:
Shame on you........ Shame, shame, shame! BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ..... Aye Captain, I'm goin' as fast as I can!
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 14:03:04 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Just in Case
Subject: starseed transmission?
Message:

dear Justin,

I don't know whether your post is a joke or not. If it isn't,
your wife speaking in Hebrew is a well-known phenomenon, glossolalia, pentecostals and other speak in (pseudo-)tongues as well. They think it comes from God, modern channelists think it comes from the stars! It is just a light dissociation state, glossolalia has been thoroughly studied, it's nothing special about it at all. And it all comes from your wife's own head, not from any outside power. Tape down the Hebrew, and you will find it is pseudo-Hebrew.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 13:30:03 (GMT)
From: Mr David
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Justin Case
Subject: starseed transmission?
Message:
I cannot take your post seriously. By calling yourself, 'Justin Case' you've slready implied that you're foolin' around. Also, the same goes with the title of your post.

Anyone asking a truly sincere question wouldn't have used such a name and subject title.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 09:20:52 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Justin Case
Subject: I think it's...
Message:
I think it's called a nervous breakdown, or schizophrenia or something Justin.

Your wife needs professional help. If you believe this bullshit you are being drawn into her fantasy too, and not really helping her.

Did she do lots of acid in the 60s?

Dr Anth.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 08:37:19 (GMT)
From: J.Z. Knight
Email: None
To: Justin Case
Subject: Ramtha© says Bah, humbug!
Message:
J.C.,

Ramtha© has directed me to tell you that what you experienced were delusions as Ramtha© is the one and only 35,000 year old warrior spirit and he knows of no others that are worth mentioning. All others are false, so says Ramtha©!

Ramtha© says that you should:

  • Buy the book, The Plane of Bliss - On Earth As It Is In Heaven
  • Buy the The Two Paths video
  • And attend a free Intro event
    *New Free Intro Evenings in US*

    Evenings in Los Angeles, San Francisco and Seattle
    Ramtha's School of Enlightenment presents Ramtha's Teachings

    March13, 2000
    Los Angeles, CA
    The Beverly Hilton Hotel
    9876 Wilshire Boulevard
    Beverly Hills, CA 90210
    Whittier Room 7:00 PM March14, 2000

    San Francisco, CA
    Hyatt @ Fisherman's Wharf
    555 N. Point St
    San Francisco, CA 94133
    CA Thayer Room
    7:00 PM March15, 2000

    Seattle WA
    Cavanaughs on Fifth Ave
    1415 5th Ave
    Seattle WA
    Emerald II/III Ballroom
    7:00 PM

  • Stay in touch with the New Millennium World Tour
  • Learn more with the 2000 Beginning Events

So be it!
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 12:53:47 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: J.Z. Knight
Subject: web page
Message:
To J.Z. Knight or whoever you are,

Maybe that was a joke. In case it isn't, see the following web page, one of many on the net with info about 'Ramtha':

Contraversial Groups

So Knight, why hasn't 'Ramtha' guided you in your financial dealings?

G

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 09:32:19 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: J.Z. Knight
Subject: Yippee another cult to join
Message:
JZ,

this site is for people trying to get out of a crazy religious cult with a nutty god like figure at the head, full of spiritual wisdom.

What you and old Ramtha seem to be offering is more than the same.

I don't really think this is the place to peddle your crazy little cult. We've already been there and done that.

May I suggest you find someone who can deprogramme you, then you can put all this bullshit about people speaking in Hebrew from other planets behind you.

Ramtha is in big trouble if his warrior spirit is only 35,000 years old.

My cat's milk and catmeat spirit is at least 4,500,000 old.

So, I suggest Ramtha gets down off his throne, looks for a job and trys to make an honest living, rather than conning the gullable.

Chief Anth of the Blue Eagle Feather, Warrior Spirit of the Pool Table, and consort of bogus gurus.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:18:28 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JZ
Subject: Oops sorry JZ
Message:
I just read your post again and realised I'd got the wrong end of the stick this morning.

I was just looking for someone to have a go at. I've taken my medication now and I'm ok.

Anth the shoots first asks questions later.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 13:27:59 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: J. Z. Knight
Subject: J.Z. Knight is Ramtha?
Message:

This is copied from Controversial Groups
http://cultawarenessnetwork.org/groups2.html

Ramtha’s School of Enlightenment: A Gnostic esoteric organization founded and headed by JZ Knight who channels Ramtha, a spiritual entity believed to have lived on earth approximately 35,000 years ago. Knight was born Judith Darlene Hampton in Roswell, New Mexico, on March 16, 1946. In Tacoma, Washington, in 1977, Knight had her first encounter with Ramtha one Sunday afternoon. She and her husband had been playing with pyramids, then a rage within the New Age community, when, without prior warning, Ramtha appeared to the startled housewife as she was alone working in her kitchen. Ramtha began to speak through her and over the next few years she emerged as a channel. During her channeling, she is in a full trance and Ramtha operates as a second complete personality. Upon awakening, Knight has no memory of what has been said.
Knight first publicly operated as a channel in November 1978 to a small group in Tacoma and found an immediate public response. During 1979 she began to travel to gatherings in different parts of the country and allowed Ramtha to speak through her. The number of these events, termed Dialogues, increased dramatically in 1980, and through the early 1980s she expanded the amount of time she could stay in trance. By the mid 1980s she was regularly holding two-day weekend Dialogues drawing from 3-7,000 people.
Knight became the most prominent new age channeler, and books, cassettes and video tapes drawn from Ramtha’s teachings could be found in metaphysical bookstores across North America. Several celebrities found their way to Ramtha’s door, and the size of his audiences jumped after author Jess Stern included a chapter on him in his book Soul Mates (1984) and Shirley MacLaine spoken glowingly of Ramtha in her book Dancing in the Light (1985).
In 1988 Knight began withdrawing from public appearances, and made a significant change in direction in the founding of Ramtha’s School of Enlightenment. The School, formally initiated in May 1988, would become the place of the students’ learning and practice of the spiritual disciplines required if they were to leave behind their limited existence and assume the essential godlike mastery which was their real goal and purpose in life.
During the late 1980s and early 1990s, Knight went through a period of intense criticism. Also in the 1980s, Knight’s love of horses led her to begin a business of raising and selling Arabian horses. While the business prospered for several years, at one point in the mid 1980s the bottom fell out of the Arabian horse market, her the business went bankrupt, and Knight was plunged into debt. At the same time, a number of students who had invested in the business lost their shirts. Many had done so with an understanding that Ramtha had approved and sanctioned their investment.
As Knight recovered financially, she offered to pay back all of the students (as well as the other investors) any money they lost. While some refused her offer, she eventually returned the investment to all who accepted it. From 1988 to 1995, the Ramtha School issued no publications for circulation to the general public, but early in 1996 announced a broad range of new books and tapes would be forthcoming.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 20:19:45 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: J.Z. Knight 'channels' Ramtha
Message:
J.Z. Knight 'channels' Ramtha ... though why Ramtha can't incarnate for himself is anyone's guess.

'Knight was born Judith Darlene Hampton in Roswell, New Mexico, on March 16, 1946.'

That would be about a year before the UFO story.

'During the late 1980s and early 1990s, Knight went through a period of intense criticism. Also in the 1980s, Knight’s love of horses led her to begin a business of raising and selling Arabian horses. While the business prospered for several years, at one point in the mid 1980s the bottom fell out of the Arabian horse market, her the business went bankrupt, and Knight was plunged into debt. At the same time, a number of students who had invested in the business lost their shirts. Many had done so with an understanding that Ramtha had approved and sanctioned their investment.

As Knight recovered financially, she offered to pay back all of the students (as well as the other investors) any money they lost.[my emphasis] While some refused her offer, she eventually returned the investment to all who accepted it.'

Now there's a fine example for the Maha to follow - while he can still afford it! (thanks to the likes of us, who gave, it's true, so very willingly)

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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 11:47:38 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JZ
Subject: J.Z. we must talk.
Message:
JZ,

We must talk. Or rather, Baldur wants to talk to Ramtha.

Baldur is the spirit of a Norse Warrior God, I think he's the brother of Thor, but when he contacts me he's often been under the influence of some sort of divine mead, and been somewhat intoxicated. He tells me they call it 'Zelta' in Asgard, home of the Gods.

Anyway, as you obviously know JZ, different Gods rule in different Ages, and of course, being Gods, they're not limited by space and time, and sometimes, for their amusement, they like to zip around in the future and the past. So anyway, I've been channelling Baldur for a while now, and he'd like to meet other divine beings visiting earth.

(Between you and me JZ, I think he's reckoning he might form some sort of 'close relationship' with old Ramtha.- You know what these Scandinavians are like. But who am I to question the ways of the Gods?)

Anyway JZ, ask Ramtha is he or she would like to pop over the Rainbow Bridge to Asgard for a cup of divine mead and maybe a little Scandinavian chess, if you get my meaning. Tell Ramtha that old Balder is not homophobic.)

Anth Only a Channel for a Higher Cause.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 03:55:01 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Nonzero: The logic of human d
Message:
estiny is a new book by Robert Wright, author of The Moral Animal, the book that got me and a whole lot of other people interested in evolutionary psychology.

Here's a link to the site where you can check out excerpts of all the chapters and even the excerpt The New Yorker ran dissing Stephen Jay Gould.

I haven't read it yet but it looks extremely interesting. Mind you, I've also read an L.A. Times review by Michael Shermer of Skeptic which was quite critical.

Here it is:

Nonzero: The Logic of Human Destiny

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 05:20:38 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Neo Darwinists
Message:
Here's an web address that may interest you scientific types. Of interest is the assurtion by neo darwinists that there is no self, no Jim, no me. Check out 'The descent of man' at abc.net.au/science
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 20:19:36 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Unweaving the rainbow
Message:
So, what do you think, Harry? Do you think it's all bullshit? I find it very stimulating, myself, much more so than any philosophy on life M has. Of course his philosophy is that he's the alpha and the omega, which can only bore the piss out of ya. So do you think Dawkins and his colleagues have got something here? Do you think by reducing our minds to meme machines he has 'unwoven the rainbow' as the title of his latest book suggests?
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 02:21:39 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: A society of memes called Jerry
Message:
Dawkins himself said that he was flying a kite when he came up with the idea of memes. I think I'd rather believe in fairies, at least people have seen them. 'Are memes bigger than sexism, or little things like bell-bottom trousers'. If memes are about imitation, then where do the ideas that get imitated come from?
I think that my belief in say, fairies, and your belief in say memes, are in the end just theories, and it really doesn't matter, 'cause life is about experience. That's one of my problems with science, in that it's attempting to invent some all inclusive theory of everything, and if you experience life differently, then your experience is seem to be flawed.
I have no problem with a lack of self. I have a half formed theory along the lines, that everything is so connected, that indeed there is no self, just the 'WHOLE' that continues to grow and expand - the universe (dare I say God), which makes us God too. When man sees himself as separate from creation, as now, then the idea of self comes in handy, because it makes us immortal (soul), so then another connection via the back door has been established. Just another way to explain the 'no self'. That 'no self' is something Post Modernists and Neo Darwinists and Buddists have in common hey.
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Date: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 08:47:04 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Fairies vs. Memes
Message:
Harry,

I think there's more evidence for memes than there is for fairies. But I'll agree with you that evolutionary psychologists are going out on a limb with the theory. Still, I find it stimulating because of the evidence. Ideas do spread and ingrain themselves in different societies, and even spill over from one into the other when different societies meet. Where these ideas began, I don't know. I'm not a history major.

Science isn't challenging the experience of life. It seeks to understand it. But I'm a little wary of the attempts to destroy the notion of self. We do have boundaries of what we can experience, and I would call those boundaries the realm of the self. I can't experience your pain or read your mind, for example. That's within the realm of your self, not mine.

The one thing this website (the one you recommended) fails to do is tackle the experience of consciousness which makes the notion of a self feasible. I think, because of consciousness, we have an identity. Consciousness gives the self it's limits. It lets us know where we end and others begin, what we have control over and what's beyond our control. Without consciousness, we'd just be automatons with no notion of a self whatsoever.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 06:26:39 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: The Meme Machine.
Message:
Jerry,
I think the theory is, that if you have memes, then you can't have self. Memes cancel self, as we are just a host machine for memes. It seems to me though, that the memes could be described as 'selves' as they seem to be aware, and we (you and me) are supposed to be just an illusion. Seems a bit far fetched.

>>>>But I'm a little wary of the attempts to destroy the notion of self.<<<<
Is there some part of you, Jerry, that continues on after death, or does this 'self' perish with the body? If self continues, then it seems appropriate that trees and insects and everything must also continue.

<<<Sounds like some of your more honest memes are talking Jerry, 'cause that's what memes make us (automatons) and the notion of self is an illusion.
The 'Descent of Man' is a weekly radio program on the ABC in OZ, so there may yet be a show on consciousness.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 11:48:16 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: The Meme Machine.
Message:
I'm not sayng we AREN'T automatons, just that if we are, we're conscious ones. The question is, are we a bunch of different consciousness, per meme, as has been suggested, or is our consciousness singular, separate from and casually observing all the little UNconscious memes battling it out for front row seats? It's an interesting debate.

As for what comes after death, no, I don't think that 'Jerry', whether I'm one person or a bunch of different ones, my memes, will still be there. I think 'Jerry', including his consciousness, is a pattern of matter and energy that will desist upon death.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 12:44:40 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Little mushroom on the forest floor.
Message:
>>>>>>I'm not sayng we AREN'T automatons, just that if we are, we're conscious ones. The question is, are we a bunch of different consciousness, per meme, as has been suggested, or is our consciousness singular, separate from and casually observing all the little UNconscious memes battling it out for front row seats? It's an interesting debate.<<<<<

Yeah, but you can take it further, past us and on to include the universe. Say that every cell in your body is conscious, and the nucleus is looking out at it's own little world and drawing it's own conclusions, just like us gazing at the sun, the moon and the stars and pondering the meaning of life. I don't like our chances but it's interesting.

>>>>>I think 'Jerry', including his consciousness, is a pattern of matter and energy that will desist upon death.<<<<<<

I've spent a lot of my time at my favourite places in the forest trying to see myself past death. I see us like a little mushroom, who appears on the forest floor from nowhere one dewy, damp morning. It's there for a few days and then it's gone. Back to the earth, back to the Mother. It was alive then, and it's alive now. Same with us. It doesn't matter that it no longer feels like a mushroom, or feels like anything, 'cause it just 'is'. I hope this doesn't offend your scientific sensibilities.
Harry

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 01:56:36 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Timothy Leary mouse pad eBay
Message:
Timothy Leary mouse pad for sale on eBay with picture.

Just did a search on eBay for Guru and came up with the Guru Papers book and the Timothy Leary mouse pad.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:49:03 (GMT)
From: It wasn't me
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: just call me paranoid
Message:
If you're gonna show pics I wanna see his frozen
head.
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:52:23 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: oh that was me
Subject: I'm tired again
Message:
That would be an interesting picture though
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:15:50 (GMT)
From: Mommie Dearest
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek™
Subject: Coathangers and Raw Meat
Message:
Roger:

Shouldn't you be packing?

MD

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:44:58 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Mommie Dearest
Subject: I've regressed
Message:
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn!
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Date: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 21:31:29 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Fight! fight! (anticipated)
Message:
Seconds away, round one...

From the 'I'm starting to wonder' thread, below (reproduced here, 'cos there won't be time to respond before it's in the 'inactive threads':

a showka le barker enters the ring ...

'Maharaj ji never ordered us to sacrifice our wallets. We (some of us) gave willingly. He never demanded a car. We(some of us) gave willingly. Maharaj ji knows the Premie population is getting older and more into family life. He isn't asking, but some of us are still giving. It's nice but, not nessisary. Personally I'd rather fight injustice in the world.

O.K. Who's refereeing?

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Date: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 21:52:38 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: Fight! fight! (anticipated)
Message:
Too tired to fight really. This is such an old one.
I'm amazed they still spout it forth.
And to come here and try it when it doesn't even work on anyone who has never heard of M why one earth would it work on an EX premie?

ho hum....
yeah 'only if you want to'
AND you don't care if you are looked down upon by your closest so called friends.
And you don't care if you are gossiped about by the so very sweet phone person who woke you up Saturday morning asking for money for whatever it was....

yawn......
nope, can't fight about it, it's toooooooooooooooo old.
but I am surprised they still try it.

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Date: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 22:34:57 (GMT)
From: forgot one
Email: None
To: ps
Subject: and if you don't mind
Message:
that you didn't buy a favor in the eyes of Our Leader
aka Our Meditation Teacher/Lord of the Universe
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Date: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 22:45:13 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: all
Subject: and another one
Message:
that you don't mind being shunned by the premies because you don't participate (give money) and follow the party line.
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 01:15:15 (GMT)
From: 09
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Oh so we wernt into family
Message:
...life then. Oh. So all the familys that broke up due to the stress of the 'obligations' of being a premie shouldnt be complaining!
He knows we are into family life now. He musta overlooked it back then.
What a nice guru to say its ok now.
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 01:44:31 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: 09
Subject: Oh so we wernt into family
Message:
Hi 09
The stuff I posted was happening to me when I left in 97!
But yeah, back when my kids were growing up
forget it! They didn't matter in anyone's eyes.
We were the 'householder's'
Sort of like being second or third class citizen's.

It was real bad back then. Constant phone calls
from some character called the community
coordinator, with requests to give whatever we could
usually something like 10% a month.
As if we could even earn anything enough to keep
a 'household' together running all over the country
at a weeks notice to see God..

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:40:53 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Ashram ego encouraged by M
Message:
In the ashram meetings, Rawat encouraged the ashramers to look down on the 'married ones' (excluding him and his dear bro 'Raja Ji'). I remember the derisive tone of voice he had when he said 'married ones'. In one ashram meeting, someone asked Rawat something like 'How come we can't be married, you're married'. Rawat replied 'You're not Guru Maharaj Ji'. I think in the same meeting, 'Raji Ji' was there and little Prem Pal asked him 'How come you're in the meeting? you're married!' and laughed.
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 03:06:38 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: G
Subject: You're absolutely right
Message:
When I left the ashram after Toronto '74, I thought that maybe, just maybe, I could 'have it all'. You know, I was 21. I thought maybe I could have a girlfriend or something. You know?

Anyway, it became so obvious (as if I didn't already really know) that m considered people who'd left the ashram as little better than Indian Givers (my apologies to all my native clients, etc. etc.). I'd given my life to my CREATOR, hadn't I? So who the fuck did I think I was planning to sit down and meditate, and pray for great, deep experiences of devotion and all that, if I'd stolen my body back, so to speak?

Now here's what really pisses me off: all the motherfuckers who try to tell em I was imagining things. That it was maybe my own paranoia, or misunderstanding, or that maybe my community co-ordinators layed this trip on me but m had nothing to do with it. Hey, I've got one thing to say to any of you who lay that shit on me ....

(Warning to all Recent-Ex's: here comes some really bad language. I'm sorry, it's just coming out and I don't know what to do about it. But I guess that's why you have your own forum, huh?)

FUCK RIIIIIIIIIIGHT OFF!

I mean, really, as if! And let's face it, the community coordinators and everyone else involved were all just 'waiting the words of the Hamster' too. Remember '76? Maharaji set 'Let there be Knowledge-Lite!' (first draft) and there it was. The cc's were out there doing the bump just like everyone else. Why then? Because m set the tone.

And after? After Essen where m said 'Let there be Heavier Guilt Trips than Ever Before!' Voila! That's what happened.

But then isn't that what a cult's all about? Immediate responsiveness to its leader's every whim? You know, some cults cut their balls off and wore Nikes. We had mind-numbing marathon confession sessions and wore big buttons of our cult leader's entire retarded family.

Okay, granted, we didn't cut our balls off. m wins all sorts of prizes for not being the worst cult around. On the other hand, a guy I know who went to a workshop in the states with renowned cult expert Isaac Beshivek Singer -- (joke!) Margaret Singer -- said she told him that soem cult experts (don't ask me who. Maybe I could find out.) claim that m's known for having a detrimental effect on his sucker's psyches second in harm only to one other: Sai Baba. So there's that.

But the main point is that people who try to scapegoat premies are fools and liars.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 19:55:39 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek™
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: Reluctantly a ***Best***
Message:
Only because of my respect for Susan do I make this post with all of its bad words a ***Best***.

I really don't want to encourage this type of behavior as I'm trying to clean up my act. So that when I move to Thousand Oaks, California I can be a kinder and gentler person and pick up more chicks. Seduce and Destroy!

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 06:22:06 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A best must read post Jim (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:46:34 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Ashram ego encouraged by M
Message:
Yes well it's all turning into it's opposite.
I doubt there is all that much marital bliss in
the pretty little house on the hill.

Now I think I'll go finish
'My Date With Satan'

A very stiry about a disappointing
real life meeting of 2 people who start out getting
to know each other on-line. Imagine that!
night folks.

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 05:29:55 (GMT)
From: 09
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Mindset of the devoted house..
Message:
holder. I cannot think of one family that didnt have the devoted huoseholder syndrome break them up in the end.

Mostly by the headtri)ps inflicted on the mothers (who were having little devotee babies - by the fathers fulfilliing Ms mission by donating the family income and surrendering worldly carreer for the sake of being near the perfect master.

Selene, I know it is going on today still. Bright people existing in a phalid state, telling themselves they are doing the right thing by going to programs because he is the perfect master.

The wierd thing is these premies are often very depressed and socially dysfunctional in between programs.

I know premie men who cant even hang on to a girl friend because the women sense that they are out to lunch. They exploit for sex and an opportunity to give superficial private satsang. That gets very old fast.

But I get outraged when I remember the rip off within families.

09

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:29:45 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: 09
Subject: A Story
Message:
Hi 09 -
Your post reminded me of a story - this is about a very close friend of mine, and why she left M.

My best friend and I both got knowledge when we were 16. A year and a half later, she married another premie, and she and her husband tried to be 'devoted householders'. It was awful - they felt constant guilt because they weren't doing enough. Also, they left birth control up to 'Guru Maharaji's grace' so they had two kids in less than two years (after that they decided to use worldly birth control). Plus they didn't have any money to speak of.

Anyway, they ended up moving to Florida so the husband could work for DECA. This was supposed to be a way to support themselves and do service at the same time. When my friend could get someone to watch her kids, she would go and do unpaid service at DECA (gluing airplane seats together or whatever unskilled labor they had at the time.) They also tried to go to ALL the festivals. They were broke, so they had to stay in the cheapest accomodations possible - either camping or crowded into hotel rooms with other families.

My friend said that her first 'drip' (read AJW's journey) or realization that M's world was not all it was cracked up to be happened at festivals. Marolyn and M's kids used to have a comfortable, air conditioned room facing the stage, and occasionally someone would take a shot of M's family waving to the audience. Meanwhile my friend's kids were trying to sleep on the concrete floor, or on the grass, or were in child-care hell, throughout interminable programs. (And this was back when children were ALLOWED to come to events.)My friend could be 'unselfish' for herself, but not for her kids. She couldn't handle the disparity between how M's kids were treated and how HER kids were treated.

Yeah, this was back in the 'old days', but she's still angry about it, and angry at herself about some of the things she did to her children so that she could follow M. It makes ME angry when people say things like 'Maharaji didn't know or understand about this, and it was the premies in charge who created the situation'. Especially since Maharaji and Marolyn had children and took great care that THEIR children would be treated royally.

Take care, 09 -
Ms. K

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 20:18:11 (GMT)
From: 09
Email: None
To: Ms. K
Subject: A Story
Message:
Oh these are truly painful memeories.
I was like your friend, but I was very smug. After all, this 'By the worldly standard- Neglect of my children' actually put me right into the Grace Zone.

How was the worldly standard capable of measuring the endless grace I was being carried by?

Im my case it was really my jealousy of my mate who was off satsanging the sisters while I was trying to keep it together with the kids in the tent- that started my on the path to leaving.

(After a few years of this, there needed to be the interlude when I got the babysitter and went off and got satsanged myself)

It shows the depth of the delusion. Some where in me I think Marolyn was sucked in too. What woman could see children living like that and do nothing? Unless she was not in control of her mind.

Take care Ms. K
09

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Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 03:44:10 (GMT)
From: BJ
Email: None
To: O9, Kate,G, et all
Subject: A Story
Message:
Thank you for posting interesting things. I don't get to a computer too often but when I do I love to read stories, gossips,experiences of the heart or whatever regarding M and EV or any past association. Its fun and stimulating. My God, I had so many exp w/ Michael Donner and John Miller and Ef and others from the Rez and so when you guys say anything regarding your past its fun and reminds me of stuff good and bad.

Pls, continue. My life regardless of M experiences is filled w/ substance. And when I turn here I want to read substance. Pain or happiness, past or present. But some of the dribble here is not worth anyone's butt ache sitting in front of this screen.

I mean really am I alone here??

Sincerely, BJ

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Date: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:26:49 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: 09
Subject: Mindset of the devoted house..
Message:
Yes it was awful. And being married to one who also
seemed to need to give a lot of one on one
satsang to the single premie sisters didn't help!

Now that you mention it the last 'events' I attended
in the 90's did have that single's bar atmosphere
at break. But even more depressing! No waiters.
No alcohol. ( probably some backstage somewhere huh?)

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