Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 03:09:57 (GMT)
From: Feb 13, 2000 To: Feb 26, 2000 Page: 2 Of: 5


G -:- Links showing as being read - partial fix? -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 21:45:04 (GMT)
__ Brian -:- Links showing as being read - fix -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 00:00:01 (GMT)

cqg -:- not quite tickety-boo yet -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 19:41:02 (GMT)
__ Brian -:- Links showing as being read -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 20:19:35 (GMT)
__ __ cqg -:- I'll reload - will that solve it? (nt) -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 20:23:29 (GMT)
__ Jack -:- See Red! -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 20:04:17 (GMT)

Haldor -:- The last straw -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 19:14:20 (GMT)
__ Anon -:- An attempt to continue the lost thread... -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 20:25:30 (GMT)
__ __ cqg -:- the lost thread... to the Minotaur's cave? -:- Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 20:49:15 (GMT)
__ Jack -:- Million dollar yacht, the last straw! -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 19:57:38 (GMT)
__ __ Anon -:- Million dollar yacht maybe not so new. -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 23:52:23 (GMT)
__ Anon -:- The last straw -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 19:53:35 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- The fear factor -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 05:40:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ michael -:- Give it some time -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 07:42:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- Give it some time -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 09:20:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- Give it some time -:- Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 20:16:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- The great unlearning -:- Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 00:00:15 (GMT)

cqg -:- Another quote - from the late Quentin Crisp ... -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:41:11 (GMT)
__ SB -:- He dances still, off beat, of course, as always(nt -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 20:57:34 (GMT)
__ __ cqg -:- He dances still, off beat? Must be a Bhangra thang -:- Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 20:03:59 (GMT)

Al Einstein -:- 'Great spirits' quote -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:26:10 (GMT)
__ hal -:- 'Great spirits' quote -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 10:47:33 (GMT)
__ __ cqg -:- 'Great spirits' quote - Good 'un, good humour (nt) -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 20:11:07 (GMT)
__ G -:- Expanded version of 'Great spirits' quote -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:30:41 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- Quote from Einstein re: the mysterious -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 14:25:56 (GMT)
__ __ Al Einstein -:- Try this one on. -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 22:31:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- Not everything that counts can be counted - Al E. -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 01:58:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Platitudes suck -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 13:15:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ G -:- Not everything that counts can be counted -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 14:45:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Not everything that counts can be counted -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 19:58:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mu -:- Not everything that counts can be counted - Al E. -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 03:12:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ Al Einstein -:- Feel like deflecting this? -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 00:46:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- Prempal/Albert- comparisons -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 17:33:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Prempal/Albert- comparisons -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 17:38:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- Prempal/Albert- comparisons -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:30:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Deflection -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 13:29:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- The intuitive mind is a sacred gift - Einstein -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 01:44:02 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- Context of expanded 'Great spirits' quote -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:46:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bertrand Russell -:- How I see it -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 22:13:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- Bertrand Russell -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 23:53:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ cqg -:- The important thing is not to stop questioning nt -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:48:39 (GMT)
__ cqg -:- 'Great spirits' quote- is NOT in context, pal (nt) -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:28:35 (GMT)

Brian -:- It's back, sort of -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:07:00 (GMT)
__ Forum Administrator -:- It's back, sort of -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:31:49 (GMT)
__ cqg -:- It's back, sort of -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:24:20 (GMT)
__ G -:- Thanks for the restore, suggestions -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:19:25 (GMT)
__ __ Brian -:- Thanks for the restore, suggestions -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:33:43 (GMT)
__ G -:- Now what was that quote from Einstein? (nt) -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:10:41 (GMT)
__ __ Ms. K -:- G, thank you so much... -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:18:12 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Is this the kind of service we're paying for?????? -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:09:07 (GMT)

Haldor -:- Now I'm the enemy??? -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:06:58 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- Now I'm the enemy??? -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 19:34:02 (GMT)
__ __ bill b -:- hal -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 03:53:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ bb -:- hal 9000 -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 04:58:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- You don't know everything -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 05:14:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Smart answer: (nt) -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 16:39:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Hal 9002 -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 06:08:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JB -:- Hal 9002 -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 16:26:35 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- Relax Haldor -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:18:25 (GMT)
__ __ selene -:- Relax Haldor -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:36:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ Haldor -:- I've been relaxed and complacent too long -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 19:39:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- I've been relaxed and complacent too long -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 20:00:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Gregg -:- think critically -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 19:17:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mike -:- Well said, Gregg! -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 21:03:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bill burke -:- 'imagine' is a poor choice Haldor -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 02:59:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- 'imagine' blacklisted by nuns -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 15:40:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Haldor -:- 'imagine' is a poor choice Haldor -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 04:51:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Haldor 9001 -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 05:42:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Haldor -:- Making judgements -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 10:53:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- ******* judgeme***-Mickey the P.................. -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 20:08:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- ******* judgeme*** -:- Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 20:08:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- ******* *********M.the P. -:- Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 00:56:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- ******* judgeme***-Mickey the P.................. -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 21:29:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- prez day -:- Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 05:43:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- prez day -:- Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 08:07:24 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- The Mother of EV's officials Nightmare now online! -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:06:12 (GMT)
__ Coach -:- The Mother of EV's officials Nightmare now online! -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 20:25:58 (GMT)
__ __ coach - I know! -:- I read some, tried to say more -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 20:35:25 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- The Mother of EV's officials Nightmare now online! -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:22:38 (GMT)

Angry -:- Werner Rawat's next Satellite Offering -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:03:53 (GMT)
__ Anarchist -:- Werner Rawat's next Satellite Offering -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 19:39:25 (GMT)
__ __ enemy -:- Werner Rawat's next Satellite Offering -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 02:42:47 (GMT)

Mr D -:- Don't forget -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 12:58:44 (GMT)

G -:- Broadcasts in India to be twice a week (news) -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:12:44 (GMT)
__ mantis -:- collect more money then drop the project (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:03:25 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- collect more money then drop the project (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:28:06 (GMT)
__ cqg -:- Is this guy after world domination ...again? (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:37:10 (GMT)
__ __ bb -:- breath vulture -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 06:16:54 (GMT)

JB -:- Other gurus -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:35:21 (GMT)
__ Runamok -:- Other Messiahs? -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 00:37:44 (GMT)
__ G -:- Other gurus - pretending -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 22:04:22 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Other gurus - pretending -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 00:23:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- The pretending GOD -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:46:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- The pretending GOD -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 03:12:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- Correction to 'Other gurus - pretending' -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:26:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mu -:- Correction to 'Other gurus - pretending' -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:45:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ G -:- my (_|_) -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 05:09:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mu -:- Try Latin dancing your (__|__) off! (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 07:35:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- About your (__|__) -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 17:46:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Latin dancing - good suggestion -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 14:45:26 (GMT)
__ Mirror -:- Other gurus -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:51:58 (GMT)
__ __ cqg -:- Other gurus -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 19:58:57 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- That's because it's bullshit Mirror... -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:28:27 (GMT)
__ __ Anon -:- Other gurus -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 23:46:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mirror -:- The guru enigma -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:41:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cqg -:- The guru enigma -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 20:13:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- the mundane reality of his day to day life -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 02:31:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ mir -:- as if you knew -:- Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 05:37:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Well, are you? Tell us about it. -:- Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 22:09:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yes! I hereby throw up my hands! Yes, indeed! -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 02:17:33 (GMT)
__ Powerman -:- Other gurus -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:05:26 (GMT)
__ __ cqg -:- As Shiva's 'ambassador',they could rethink ...(nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:07:51 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Latest jokes heard in EV -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:06:54 (GMT)
__ michael -:- wry grin :-' and a wink ;-) -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:27:33 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- That, my friend, did NOT translate -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:20:20 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- What did you expect from premies in Belgium? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:34:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- YOU said that, not me -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:11:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- I thought YOU Americans would laugh! -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:26:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- I thought YOU Americans would laugh! -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:58:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Me funny American -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 03:46:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- O, that's a real knee-slapper, Jer -- yuck yuck -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 03:50:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- You had to be there -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 12:34:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- A funny thing about Mr. Bean -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 16:38:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Monty Python? -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:06:06 (GMT)

Powerman -:- Nervous Wreck - Defining Moments -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:00:58 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Yes, that's great -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:23:28 (GMT)
__ __ cqg -:- the 'lead weight attached to your foot'... -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:51:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- But that ruins it -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 02:53:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Powerman -:- Jim, help me out. -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:14:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- No, but I got one a these, and a one a these -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 02:43:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Jim, I got one a these! -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 19:18:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cqg -:- Jim, help me out. -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:20:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- What I want to know is..... -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 22:12:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- What I want to know is..... -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 22:49:45 (GMT)

out of touch -:- wot did we used to say? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 15:30:28 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- Bwah ha ha ha ha ..... you aren't too out of touch -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 15:53:59 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- Oh, I forgot -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 15:56:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ cqg -:- You mean 'OJ's hat?' Shit. 'An 'and'?(as in glove) -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:05:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- Bowl o' shriek sad group o' dev's mirage key jerk -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 14:56:27 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Get therapy with the Lard HIMSELF !!!!!! -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 08:54:35 (GMT)
__ JW -:- This Is A Fundraiser....... -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:40:25 (GMT)
__ __ Ben Lurking -:- This Is 'A week with the Speek' the g-geek -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:25:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- You're right on the money, Ben -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 04:29:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ JW -:- Not a Fundraiser for EV a Fundraiser for the LORD -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 04:15:14 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- And how's this for a stinking great LIE..! -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 23:46:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ JW -:- It's About Taxes -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 04:07:06 (GMT)
__ __ yes yes yes!!! -:- This Is A Fundraiser.......you bet it is -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:44:57 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- I am cracking up at this. -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 16:37:13 (GMT)
__ __ Mike -:- You know..... -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 22:24:19 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- me too Susan -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:02:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- LOL Selene..ala Fried Green Tomatos -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:18:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- I remember that scene -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:23:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- are you saying that the women will have mirrors -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:42:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- The men should be forced to have rules -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:50:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ selene -:- I am sure there will be rules -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:01:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Just as always though I suspect Rawat will not -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:07:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Just as always though I suspect Rawat will not -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:09:19 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- I can remember a time..... -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 15:51:55 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- I've been to Woodside Avenue! -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 15:58:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ cqg -:- high level of intimacy and exchange there, J-M? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:24:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- high level of intimacy and exchange there, J-M? -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 09:29:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- I said you didn't experience anything practising k -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 20:42:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- I thought you didn't have intimacy with Rawat! -:- Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 08:42:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- Talking of wallets... -:- Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 09:30:06 (GMT)
__ DOD -:- Get therapy with the Lard HIMSELF !!!!!! -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 14:41:03 (GMT)
__ __ Joey -:- The closer you get.... -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:01:56 (GMT)
__ Angry -:- Get therapy with the Lard HIMSELF !!!!!! -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 10:34:51 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- But what about the REAL cost? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:02:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Angry -:- Who else is responsible? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:17:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ DOD -:- Who else is responsible? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 14:53:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- this is not far from the Darshan cam... -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 16:55:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Can I go? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:14:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Can I be there too? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:23:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Oh Jim, that was a great post. And... -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:21:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- How about girls? (warning - possibly sexist idea) -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:24:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- sexist idea- won't work two reasons -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:13:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- 'YOUNG premie women' Where? Africa? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:18:53 (GMT)


Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 21:45:04 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Links showing as being read - partial fix?
Message:
Maybe post some dummy posts, then delete them?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 00:00:01 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: G
Subject: Links showing as being read - fix
Message:
I took the plunge and bumped the counter up 200. That should do it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 19:41:02 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: not quite tickety-boo yet
Message:
not quite tickety-boo yet ...

You know how, when you've read a post, its header changes colour?

Well, even new threads are showing up as the same (read) colour on my system.

Is it me? Or .... ???

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 20:19:35 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: cqg
Subject: Links showing as being read
Message:
That's a symptom of the restoration. One of the files that was restored is the file that keeps track of the next number to assign to the next message posted. The number is referred to in the URL as the 'key'. The URL to your message above is:

http://www.ex-premie.org/forum5/main.cgi?key=03WK

What happened was that number was previously assigned to a post that you already read. Then the old number file was restored, the old post was 'un-posted', and the count picked up where it was when the backup was made. So numbers above the backup point are now being re-assigned. If a link shows as visited on the index, it's because you had read the 'un-posted' message that was previously assigned that number.

I could probably do something to 'bump' the count up to a number above those already assigned once, but after the day I've had today I don't think my nerves would let me chance it.

As soon as the number of posts exceeds the number in existence when the site was restored, the problem will disappear. Meanwhile, read every post :)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 20:23:29 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: I'll reload - will that solve it? (nt)
Message:
I'll reload - will that solve it? (nt)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 20:04:17 (GMT)
From: Jack
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: See Red!
Message:
Yes It's all red!

Brian, even your wonderful apology has disappeared. You have beautiful manners. Are you Britsh? You are forgive by the way... it could happen to anyone. Could you imagine how awful you would have felt if you had been doing this FOR m!

Love,

Jack

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 19:14:20 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The last straw
Message:
There was some very interesting stuff which was lost this morning about plans to spend millions of dollars on a yacht for Rawat in Miami.This was briefly mentioned by Anon.Any more on this?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 20:25:30 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: An attempt to continue the lost thread...
Message:
I am going to try to continue the conversation I was having with Jack, Haldor, SB et al.

I had written that I had heard that M has a new multi million dollar yacht and that was reportedly at some very exclusive conference in Miami this week. Jack then wrote:

By the way Anon, where did you hear that particularly revolting peice of information?

To which I replied in a post that got lost last night (but which I still have on my computer fortunately)


Calm down Jack, don't let it get to you.

I have a number of friends in the US and last night was 'trans-atlantic call night'. I didn't ask for this info, this is just what someone told me quite off their own bat. There are obviously a lot of people who read this site and who don't join in for whatever reasons, but who are still keen to feed others (who are not so reluctant about writing here) bits of Maharaji news. I take this as further confirmation that there are a lot of premies who are to some degree sympathetic to the misgivings expressed here, and who perhaps feel that it is appropriate, healthy even, that Maharaji's activities are more known.

Let's remember that we've all grown up a bit now. Most premies are probably in their 40's and 50's I would guess. And I expect that many are increasingly failing to sustain the suppression of their doubts into middle age, despite the continued recommendations to eschew the rational distractions of the mind.

It became very clear to me last night that there are people who don't want to write here, purely because they are wary of the social consequences (although they are avid and regular forum fans).

They have friends or loved ones who are, in turn, friends with very active premies, or even Maharaji himself. So they don't feel comfortable to write. As we can see, even anonymity does not protect one from the guesswork of others who may be mischevously inclined to expose identities. This fact makes already nervous people even more reluctant to express themselves directly. I know for a fact that not many people are ready to write using their real names. Despite the care-free and possibly noble examples of people like Jim, Mark etc. who are prepared to take the consequences, there are many more people who, though poised at their computers, are still failing to pluck up enough courage to submit even an anonymous contribution to this debate.

As you may have gathered from previous threads, I personally, am not very comfortable to relate controversial things that were not my direct experience. We already stand accused of being rumour-mongers of the worst order, 'Yellow Journalists' and the rest. Therefore I have resolved to omit the more 'particularly revolting peices of information' that people tell me (presumably hoping that I will be the one to shout it abroad.) I used to think that it would be the seamier reports that would create enough sensation to jolt people out of complacency, as it had done to a degree with me. But I am beginning to see that I have some more obvious criticisms about the ethics and teachings that no-one can say are vicious rumours or an invasion of privacy.

I think we are, collectively and gradually coming to the same conclusion (in this most extended of debates) that the singular, outstanding Achilles Heel of Perfect Masters (it is important to take into account the historical record of past masters to better understand the behaviour of the current one) is the fact that Fear has clearly played a big part in the Master/student dynamic.

Most of us western premies (probably bought up with largely christian ethics) would have originally aspired to only serve a Loving God, and we are possibly now puzzling as to why we inadvertently allowed ourselves to be so intimidated, for so long, by a not infrequently Old Testament sounding Lord. As I keep saying, I have found it hard to continue to have trust in a Master who has demonstrably inspired some terror in his flock during his attempts to keep them on the straight and narrow.

Another more 'New Testament-ish' quote comes to mind:

'Perfect love casteth out fear'

I would have thought (given that this love must be a two way thing) that the flow of love from the Master ought to have been sufficient to wash away fear from his disciples rather than burden them with any new dread.

I didn't think it was particularly great news that M has expensive yachts and things. I gather that M is quite into using his boat as a mobile home occasionally. This new spate of conferences appear to be more more hushed up than in previous times. I don't quite understand why.

I wonder if secretiveness is a reflection of a perceived potential security risk to M (who will obviously be staying nearby on a boat or residence or whatever) or whether it is because M wants to keep these smallish, special invitation, seminars away from the attention of the public or even other, jealous premies who weren't invited.

Whatever, I gather that I am not alone in thinking that the general trend for 'encouraged furtiveness' is a rather odd policy for an organisation supposedly commited to spreading Truth.

What happened to that 'don't hide your light under a bushel' stuff and 'Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your father which is in heaven'?

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Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 20:49:15 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: the lost thread... to the Minotaur's cave?
Message:
the lost thread... to the Minotaur's cave?

OK, dramatics aside;



Here we are in the 21st Century (well, nearly, according to some) and the Maha - GodChild of the 70's - has found, like the rest of us oldies, that life begins at forty.

My guess is that he's hooked a few exceedingly wealthy PAMs who get the special treatment, and in return for their multi-$$$ 'donations' he's prepared to give the old 'Master for this age' spiel one more less-than-subtle exposure via the satellite broadcasts that are his last hope of preaching to the converted.

Follow him if you must, but PLEASE let the rest of humanity go their own non-conformist way.


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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 19:57:38 (GMT)
From: Jack
Email: None
To: Premies, Haldor and Anon
Subject: Million dollar yacht, the last straw!
Message:
All you premies out there you can't really be serious about donating towards this. Yorem Weiss is lying to you saying your donations are going toward propagation when they are going towards playboy yachts, Raja Ji's Lambourgini, m's fleet of very pricey cars, PAM's expences, huge houses all over the world and MUCH more. Propagation these days, incase you haven't figured it out costs very little and is always covered by the individual communities. There isn't much going on because m is too busy living the high-life with his PAM pals.

I know you would love to be on that Yacht but you will never be because you have given every worldly thing up for m, you are not on the Rich List, where the invitations are made to make even more money for m.

Now get real! This scenerio is worse than any unethical ones you may have been trying to avoid when you 'embarked' on this trip in the 70's. No-one these days hangs around very long after an Introductory video- you must have noticed? This is because they have managed to avoid being brain-washed and you haven't.

No one said leaving was going to be easy,

Love & good wishes to you all,

Jack,

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 23:52:23 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Jack
Subject: Million dollar yacht maybe not so new.
Message:
I did a little further probing about this yacht thing before I am accused of starting a rumour. It would seem that his yacht is possibly a couple of years old (nearly new) and possibly cost several million dollars. I have no idea if it is leased, bought or a gift. Basically neither I nor those who I have asked about it have the latest news. I shouldn't have been so quick to pass on this second hand information, especially since I just avowed that I wouldn't. Oops.

Anyway it's no news as I said, whether new or not, whether boat, plane, car or space shuttle, M is not short of expensive means of transport!

I think it is worth considering that M's stated need to be provided with the best means as premies can afford, to accomplish his mission, is presumably endless, since there are always better means of transport available. What I question is how that specific need justifies so much expenditure over the years on what can only be described as toys, like his brothers Lambourghini etc. Especially considering that the bulk of premies whose wages went to buy these luxury goods have clearly been somewhat impoverished as a result.
Some premies might argue that the opportunity to buy M expensive presents was a gift from him in itself. A precious opportunity to show love, gratitude and appreciation.
I wonder if that is a tenable justification in any stretch of the imagination.
I do recall that M commented when he was given a brand new posh car for his birthday, that 'you will never have a car like this' or words to that effect. I was a bit surprised to hear that, since it gave the impression that he thought that premies were a race apart, kind of doomed to poverty!

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 19:53:35 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: The last straw
Message:
Yes, there was some excellent stuff from Haldor and SB too and Jack. Great shame as it definitely was **Best of Forum**. I will repost my responses for what it's worth.
Please would anyone else repost their thoughts on the Fear discussion if they can.
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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 05:40:53 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: The fear factor
Message:
Dear Anon,
I am certainly very aware of how much fear indoctrination I've picked up on the path of K&M.
I've experienced thoughts such as,'Am I going to blow it this lifetime by not recognising my opportunity to be with a perfect master'.
Rawat certainly did use the method of trying to frighten us into making more effort.
I would like to get to a point where I could live this life without taking on board other peoples belief systems.Just to live by what I really know myself. When I start looking at my beliefs they seem subtly entrenched.It seems my tendency is to drop one set of beliefs only to then pick up another set.
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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 07:42:16 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Give it some time
Message:
Believe that you are ok. Give yourself some time to become a person again. Smile for awhile and forget about all of this spiritual crap.

OK? OK! :-)

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 09:20:31 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: michael
Subject: Give it some time
Message:
Thanks,that sounds like good advice
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Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 20:16:44 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Give it some time
Message:
Hal, you say: 'When I start looking at my beliefs they seem subtly entrenched.It seems my tendency is to drop one set of beliefs only to then pick up another set.'



That triggered something for me. Remember that quote from Sir Isaac Newton?



'I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to
myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on
the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then
finding a smoother pebble or prettier shell than
ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all
undiscovered before me.

Isaac Newton (1642-1727)


For myself - I think unlearning has a lot to do with individual progress.

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Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000 at 00:00:15 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: The great unlearning
Message:
I must unlearn my conditioning...I must unlearn my conditioning... I must unlearn my conditioning ..I mus

Thanks cqg

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:41:11 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Another quote - from the late Quentin Crisp ...
Message:


Another quote - from the late Quentin Crisp ...


'It's no good running a pig farm for 30 years while saying 'I was meant to be a dancer.' By that time, pigs are your style.'




BTW, does the Maha still dance? (wherever he may be?)

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 20:57:34 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: He dances still, off beat, of course, as always(nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 20:03:59 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: He dances still, off beat? Must be a Bhangra thang
Message:
He dances still, off beat? Must be a Bhangra thang.

BTW, I wasn't 100% certain that Q Crisp was 'the late', but I checked an obituary and ... you guessed it
(born 25th December 1908 in Sutton, Surrey, England; died 21st November 1999, in Manchester, Britain.)

Which set me wondering -

IF (big if) there is an afterlife, will it feel real?

If so, then, how do we know THIS isn't the afterlife (heaven/hell/purgatory ... wherever)?

How CAN we know?



... time for a drink ....

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:26:10 (GMT)
From: Al Einstein
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'Great spirits' quote
Message:
'Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds.'
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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 10:47:33 (GMT)
From: hal
Email: None
To: Al Einstein
Subject: 'Great spirits' quote
Message:
'With fame I become more and more stupid,
which,of course is a very common phenomenon.
There is far too great a disproportion between
what one is and what others think one is,or at least what they say they think one is. But one has to take it all with good humour'.

Taken from Albert Einstein,The human side

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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 20:11:07 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: hal
Subject: 'Great spirits' quote - Good 'un, good humour (nt)
Message:
'Great spirits' quote - Good 'un, good humour (nt)
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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:30:41 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Al Einstein?
Subject: Expanded version of 'Great spirits' quote
Message:
Here is an expanded version of the 'Great spirits' quote that was posted by ? posing as Albert Einstein:

'Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and
courageously uses his intelligence.'

from the things he said

Now who was this mystery poster? Deputy Dog, was it you?

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 14:25:56 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Quote from Einstein re: the mysterious
Message:
'The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed.'
Albert Einstein

from Albert Einstein Quotations Page

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 22:31:41 (GMT)
From: Al Einstein
Email: None
To: G and All
Subject: Try this one on.
Message:
'Not everything that counts can be counted; and not everything that can be counted counts.'
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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 01:58:49 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Not everything that counts can be counted - Al E.
Message:
Exactly. We can't measure or count everything. Our measuring devices are extremely limited. What we can do with measurements is also limited. In fact, the very basics of life and of the physical world cannot be measured or counted.

We can measure the wavelength of a light beam, but we can't measure the experience of color, they are two different things. The same with the other senses and with awareness.

We can't measure what underlies matter, but here we are.

We can't measure or count love, but it counts.

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 13:15:14 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Platitudes suck
Message:
The only way you can understand them is if you understand the context they were written in. Otherwise, you can take them to mean whatever you want. How do you know if Einstein was talking about light, color, wavelengths, or love?

You were smart enough to point out the context Einstein was talking in with Dopey Dog's first quote. You'd have been just as wise to understand the context Einstein was talking in with this latter one.

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 14:45:25 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Not everything that counts can be counted
Message:
'Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.'
(Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton)

from Collected Quotes from Albert Einstein

Those were my views on the quote.

Now the quote 'Platitudes suck', what scientific meaning does that have?

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 19:58:51 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Not everything that counts can be counted
Message:
What's your view on this?

'Not everything that is cooked well tastes good. And not everything that tastes good is cooked well.'

Or:

'Not everything that is sewn well will not rip, and not everything that will not rip is sewn well.'

If it wasn't Einstein, or somebody just as notorious who said these ditties, would you even bother to think about it? Or would you think about it just because, well, they're platitudes. And all platitudes, of course, have some deep meaning. Dont't they?

Now the quote 'Platitudes suck', what scientific meaning does that have?

It means what it says. But you can take it to mean whatever you want it to. I don't mind.

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 03:12:10 (GMT)
From: Mu
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Not everything that counts can be counted - Al E.
Message:
That is very good! :-) Well put!

HAHAHAHAH and HOHOHOHO! I love it!

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 00:46:55 (GMT)
From: Al Einstein
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Feel like deflecting this?
Message:
'The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.'
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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 17:33:47 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Al Einstein
Subject: Prempal/Albert- comparisons
Message:
Albert Prempal

had great intellect ?
had compassion for people ?
Treated all men as equal ?
discussed his theories and philosophies ?
listened to others opinions ?
Didn't think he was God ?
had humility ?
Wasn't super rich no question
Had an aversion to fascist dictatorships ?
was extremely eloquent ?

many more I'm sure

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 17:38:25 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Prempal/Albert- comparisons
Message:
Sorry but that didn't come out as I typed it. There should have been 2 columns with Albert on the left , Prempal on the right with ? under Prempal.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 20:30:23 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Prempal/Albert- comparisons
Message:


you mean Albert Einstein didn't claim to be Lord of the Universe?

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 13:29:27 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Al Einstein
Subject: Deflection
Message:
Who's to say that the intuitive mind is a sacred gift? Who's the giver? God? I'd say Einstein was being a little presumptuous here, if that's what he meant. What's this crap about the rational mind being a faithful servant? What does that mean? Servant to who? Is there a context here? I know Dumb Mutt thinks he's very wise to throw out these insubstantial quotes removed from their overall context, but I'm unimpressed.
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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 01:44:02 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The intuitive mind is a sacred gift - Einstein
Message:
A great quote. Many scientific discoveries have been a result of intuition. For example, in 1865, F.A. Kekule intuited the shape of the ring-like benzene molecule from a dream of a snake biting its tail. And that's just in the area of science.
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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:46:53 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Al Einstein?
Subject: Context of expanded 'Great spirits' quote
Message:
The context of this quote was a letter defending the controversial appointment of Bertrand Russell to a teaching position, 1940.

See Albert Einstein speaks.

If you are not familiar with Russell, maybe one of the skeptics here can explain. This is not a good quote to use for defending Maharaji.

More quotes from Einstein to come.

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 22:13:00 (GMT)
From: Bertrand Russell
Email: None
To: G
Subject: How I see it
Message:
'Man is the product of causes which had no prevision of the end they were achieving...his origin, his growth, his hopes, his fears, his loves and beliefs, are but the outcome of accidental collocations of atoms...[Nothing] can preserve an individual life beyond the grave...[A]ll these things, if not quite beyond dispute, are yet so nearly certain, that no philosophy which rejects them can hope to stand.'

And thank you, Albert, for your recommendation.

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 23:53:23 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Bertrand Russell
Message:
Lest anyone get the wrong idea, I do not agree with Russell's viewpoint. But I think it is worth considering and there might be some truth to it. People have a right to have and express their opinions. Also, radical viewpoints, though perhaps not entirely true, can be a stimulus for new insights, partly by challenging conventional wisdom.
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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:48:39 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: G
Subject: The important thing is not to stop questioning nt
Message:
'The important thing is not to stop questioning' - Einstein (nt)
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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:28:35 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Al Einstein
Subject: 'Great spirits' quote- is NOT in context, pal (nt)
Message:
'Great spirits' quote- is NOT in context, pal (nt)
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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:07:00 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: Everyone
Subject: It's back, sort of
Message:
For those who just tuned in, I managed to destroy every post on the english, french and spanish forums this morning. I've since had the server restore the entire site from their last tape backup done around midnight last night.

So anything posted after that is gone. But the rest is back.

Thankyou very much, G, for your suggestion. I've never had reason to do a restoration before, and was so numb after I realized what I did that I didn't even think of the tapes.

I promise to backup posts from now on before I attempt any sort of reformatting like this. It's been a very long morning...

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:31:49 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: It's back, sort of
Message:
Thanks for all the quick thinking going on there.

Brian, hope you're feeling better now. I recommend three fingers of Wild Turkey at times like this but I hear you're tea total. Go have a glass of malted milk or orange juice and take the rest of the day off.

Forum Administrator

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:24:20 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: It's back, sort of
Message:
In between Brian's catastrophic experience this morning (not GMT presumably) I managed to rescue at least this:

Date:
Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 16:02:53
From:
Sniggs
Email:
None
To:
Everyone
Subject:
A Family Affair
Message:

Hey guys'n'gals!

Not only can we enjoy daily psychic insights from Mr. and Mrs. Cainer's little boy Jonathan BUT NOW we of the internet community can also be pleasured by his equally talented but not quite as famous and successful brother, Daniel.

Quote '..witty, intelligent, sensitive, thought-provoking, moving, haunting, hilariously funny!'

Yes, with real audio player loaded onto your PC, you can have this troubadour lull you into a state near mental collapse with his acute musical commentary on current affairs.

Just remember that these boy wonders both get their inspiration from the same eternal source - that's right, the knowledge of all knowledges. Yessiree!!




Commiserations Brian ...what can we say? How about this -

'You either kiss the future or the past goodbye.' - Ringo Starr

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:19:25 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Thanks for the restore, suggestions
Message:
Thanks for the restore.

Suggestions:

For a data conversion, maybe run a comparison utility on some sample posts, compare the pre and post versions.

Maybe archive the active and inactive posts first before a data conversion, do this right before a backup is taken.

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:33:43 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: G
Subject: Thanks for the restore, suggestions
Message:
I need to put in place code to backup and restore posts. Archiving was never meant to serve that purpose, and there was always some other problem that had my attention. I'll start on that now.

BTW, can you email me? I wanted to talk to you about something, but you don't publish your email address in posts.

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:10:41 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Now what was that quote from Einstein? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:18:12 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: G
Subject: G, thank you so much...
Message:
...for that suggestion. You're a life saver, and we are very grateful to you.

The English language forum moves so quickly that losing a week's worth of posts is irritating, but not devastating. The French and Spanish forums are much slower - and losing all the posts on those forums would have been a disaster.

E-mail me or Brian some time if you get a chance. And I hope you get the Einstein quote back.

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:09:07 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Is this the kind of service we're paying for??????
Message:
Just kidding .... good one though, eh?
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:06:58 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Now I'm the enemy???
Message:
MIRROR WROTE
'Interesting how quickly you jumped over to the other side with just a little bit of coaxing from your new found friends'
'Or maybe you were'nt standing on very solid ground to begin with'
WHAT IS THIS OTHER SIDE CRAP, MIRROR? This demonstrates perfectly why I can no longer be involved with such a divisive cult.It wasn't a decision that happened overnight, I've had many questions and doubts about the way M does things for years especially the last ten.You express doubt as to the solidity of the ground I was standing on. I spent from 18 years old in 1972 believing in the infalliblity of M,ignoring the rumours. I used to look after the cars that M and his brother weren't using,2 Ferrari boxers,Raja Ji's Lambourghini,huge motorhome and some others I can't remember the makes of.I drove in the hired Rolls,got up at 5am to collect M's croissants from the bakery and deliver them to the residence for breakfast,collected mangos from the airport sent especially from India for him,some samosas from Southall etc. etc.I meditated 4 hours a day,sung Arti twice daily and attended satsang every single night.I was an ashram co-ordinator,aspirant co-ordinator,worked in M's office etc fuckin etc. Still I ignored any doubts and questions. Yes old faithful premie ji me! For the last 2 years I've meditated every single fucking day and loved M with all my heart. Not solid my arse!
Do premies think that the experience stops when one leaves M?Well you're wrong,life goes on and so does the love experience.I still have a beloved but it's the internal True Self not an image of Mr Rawat.
Ramakrishna was often seeing visions of Krishna,he was famous for his devotion.One day he had a conversation with his master and the master told him to chop off Krishna's head!Ramakrishna was horrified he said 'I cant do that and anyway where would I get the sword?' From the same place you got Krishna' said the master.Rumi says, 'Go to the place beyond images and idols'The great love premies feel for M comes from inside them,it's their love,it doesn't come through the t.v. screen,or roll down mysteriously from the stage.What kind of free gift was it thatfor the rest of your life you have to give unquestioning obedience and adoration to the person who revealed you some techniques?Anyway you make your choice and I'll make mine.That's something I'll always defend,our right to meditate or not ,follow or not.
Recommended reading:Anon's journey/God I am,From tragic to magic by Peter.O. Erbe and best song ever written (in my opinion)John Lennon.....Imagine

Love to all of you.Haldor the sovereign being still feeling good.

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 19:34:02 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Premies
Subject: Now I'm the enemy???
Message:
Another thing I forgot.
How come M quotes Kahlil Gibran when he didn't have a master, unless he was a secret devotee of Sri Hans (most unlikely). Also he loves Rumi when it is well known that Rumi accepted many different teachers in his life and certainly didn't worship a human being but the Divine.
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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 03:53:27 (GMT)
From: bill b
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: hal
Message:
He liked Rumi because he was another drunk.
Brothers in the 'spirit(s)'.
Beats those troublesome brothers in the flesh!

Kabir was vastly different from prem rawat in that at one
point kabir believed there was a god who loved him and vice versa

rawat clearly does not believe in any god.
He is really a product of the guru misperception of life.
And I guess we can thank krishna for giving that brand of
insanity a boost with his (misquoted?) comment in the
so-called gita.

Krishna's disasterous worst sentence....'he who IDENTIFIES
with the divine ...'
With that ok from the ultimate, a horde of self-realized
crazy ASSUMERS became one of the pillars of hindian
employment options for young and old men.
Just IDENTIFY! ASSUME you are it. Then, you can manifest
your own brand of domination over others by playing the
ROLE of god in person.
Since of course there is no god but only a 'oneness'.
And, the oneness is not self aware, so, you dont have to
worry about any REAL god interferring with your budding
career playing 'god in person'. No quality control to worry
about! No one to answer to! Nice job, no wonder it so popular
in india.
Thanks and a hat tip to the so-called buddha for popularizing
THAT ugly misperception of life.

I am sure when Kabir died and realized it wasnt a city of death
with apartments like he said, he went....'ooops!
life isnt like that'

Haldor, no doubt the so-called 'divine' doesnt mind us
giving him, it, (not 'her' of course!) some attention,
but really, life is not like that!

We were 'given' (say), this physical body so that we could
enjoy it and love it and love others and our family and
create a family and love that, and love life and TRY to
deal with our human nature and murphys law and all the
shouted misperceptions of others with bodies.

We got hoodwinked by a small minded programmed product of
the eastern misperception of life. Too bad for us!
The 'divine' would like to tell us if it could, to give it
a rest! Stop trying to prove something to the divine and
put the hands on the steering wheel and drive this life and
deal exactly with what is right in front of us and forget
about god except at the most, kneel and pray at the bedside
like a kid and maybe spend an hour a week kind of thinking
along the lines of 'My commandment I give to you is to
love others, this life, and yes even ol you'. Yourself is NOT
your breath, undue focus on that is clearly detrimental.
Even ding dong himself says just do it 15 minutes in the midst
of the other stuff.

The healthiest thing is too tell the truth about what you know
for the benefit of yourself and others and face it square.

In order to start facing reality, we have to be willing
to be open to the very real possibility that our whole
framework of view and thinking that we have built courtesy
of rawat and the eastern thinkers is fundamentally a
misperception of this life.

Just the facts mam.

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 04:58:24 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: bill b
Subject: hal 9000
Message:
Haldor,
We feel the breath and all, but instead of prem rawats
misperception that the breath is You, the breath is just
the carrier of something. That something is much richer than
just a vibration.

You may spend time feeling your breath and looking at the
back of your eyelids, we all have, but none of our so called
experiences measure up to regular old just looking out our
eyes.

The blabber from that guy who just sent in his 'journey'
that Brian posted up top, the guy is a fraud.
If he really thought it was such a great light, and available,
he would make some effort to see the damn thing but he doesnt.
And why? because it is an unnatural effort and aint all that
great and besides, those that clamor for otherworldly
type experience can get it with a joint!

Which, after reading his journey post, I suspect he is on.

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 05:14:25 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: You don't know everything
Message:
B.B baby.Stop trying to be some great wise teacher.You just sound like an egomaniac.You have no idea what other's experience may be like.I wish people had more respect for all types of perspective and experience without trying to prove I'm right and you're wrong all the time
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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 16:39:53 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Smart answer: (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 06:08:08 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Hal 9002
Message:
Hi Haldor,
Exacly my point, If we have repect for 'perspectives'
and are not willing to really judge them, we are
vulnerable to be suckered in and well, we will be.

I spent a LOT of years not judgeing prem rawat despite
the growing evidence.
We are so prone to makeing excuses and allowing some
belief in our head to root and it is robbing us.

Sure I have ideas of what others experiences are.
I paid a high price for ignoreing and assuming and believeing.
It is all too human and deserves NO respect.

Many people clamor for respect and understanding yet the last
thing they want is honesty if it goes against thier beliefs.
But actually thier heart is crying for the freedom to just
throw off the tyranny and if I or others just say
well, it is all ok, many paths to the one, I am not faceing
reality and I am not being honest and I am a fraud or a
party to a fraud.

Been there, done that, already!
I got some 7 people in this house and I wont feel very good if
I kind of shrug in a 'I'm ok Your ok' kind of way when they
pick up a theory and say 'hmmmm! this looks smart!'

Thats what you and I thought when we were teenagers and
the lord of the universe told us to ignore his mom and
dedicate our lives to him.

No one made any effort to take me aside and say 'excuse me,
but, does this make sense?'
I COULD have said, 'HEY! have some respect for my beliefs and
besides, you dont know it all!'

Better to let go of the idea that beliefs are sacred and
keep them in the arena of ideas that can be challenged and
have to prove themselves.

God or the 'divine' is not a belief or an insultable idea.
Reality is what it is.
No one should be insulted or defensive.
Hope that helps.
Ideas have to stand the light of day.
The person embraceing them is not the issue actually.
Except that they act according to thier ideas so they
become potentially instruments of tyranny.

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 16:26:35 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Hal 9002
Message:
Hon,
Drop the 'e' when you add 'ing'.
You were daydreaming about girls in 7th grade English,right?
JB
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:18:25 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Relax Haldor
Message:
Alliances change around here faster than the
clock speed on our SGI at work.
I can't keep up with who is the enemy of what or
who and am always at risk offending someone.
Keep looking at the premies, at what is going on
in the cult.. ask questions and make your own
decisions.
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:36:44 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: ps to Haldor
Subject: Relax Haldor
Message:
One thing you will find though I think is
that although there may be differences that should be a signal to you that there is freedom to be ABLE to think
critically. Just compare it to M's web sites.
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 19:39:13 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: selene
Subject: I've been relaxed and complacent too long
Message:

It's time for some fieryness I think!!!!

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 20:00:02 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: I've been relaxed and complacent too long
Message:
Selene says that's a good sign!
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 19:17:05 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: selene
Subject: think critically
Message:
Selene's phrase 'think critically' is the key. There are many religions and maybe even some cults that encourage or at least tolerate critical thought. DLM/EV is not one of them; it never has been. A key element of their M.O. is to tell the Mind to shut up...which is all well and good during a meditation session -- it's good to take a rest from the restless mind now and then -- but it's not a good idea to turn off the mind for good in order to discourage doubt (A commandment: Never Leave Room For Doubt In Your Mind).

One can be blissed out, if that's what you want, without putting the brain in neutral. But dedicating your life to a transparently fraudulent guru requires dumbing down one's reasoning faculty. We ex-premies know what that means, because we used to be dumb on purpose, and we know what it's like to stop being purposefully ignorant.

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 21:03:16 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Well said, Gregg!
Message:
Gregg: Accepting every single one of M's incredibly dumb actions as some sort of 'lila' was, in fact, being 'dumb on purpose!' Well said.... indeed!

Haldor: Good going. Your brain is in gear and you are using it for its intended purpose. It's ok to be 'fiery!' You'll find that many here started just that way. I can't speak for anyone else (their posts made it fairly plain), but I can tell you that the first real 'feeling' I had, after discovering that I had been bamboozled, was profound betrayal and anger. It really does seem to be the normal response, if the wrath expressed by others is any indication. Being told, as you and I and many others here were, that you would be 'liberated,' that you would 'see god' and that M would take you 'there' was the blackest of lies, from my point of view. To take our noblest principles and keenest desires (to know and serve god, eternally) and to use them for his own personal whim was/is the most evil thing that I think one human can do to another, other than outright murder.

So, now you know why I'm pissed about my involvement and the time that it wasted..... how about you? Let it out and let's look at it. :-)

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 02:59:51 (GMT)
From: bill burke
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: 'imagine' is a poor choice Haldor
Message:
Hate to be contrarian about it, well not really,
but 'imagine' is an example of incomplete analysis and
assumption.

Saying 'cant we all just get along' is the banner waved by
those that cant or wont do the work of analysis and understanding
that it takes to understand WHY the disagreements are there.
And by giving those 'all you need is love' platitudes,
arrogant immaturity is revealed.

Sounds nice, but guess what happened after that song
'all you need is love'. A lifetime of turmoil and a unadvertised
discovery that LIFE AINT LIKE THAT!

Also, who is the -US- in the song 'imagine'?
Wont you join US!!!! Who is that US?
There IS no US because life is not like that.

Reality is different than wimpy spiritual ideas.
No offense Haldor, you didnt write the song and also I
sang arti enough times to qualify as a poor thinker and
analyzer.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 15:40:28 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: bill burke
Subject: 'imagine' blacklisted by nuns
Message:
The nuns wouldn't let the choir sing 'Imagine' at mass when I taught in a Catholic high school. They didn't like the lines 'Imagine there's no heaven'.&..'no hell below us'

ANother time, the choir sang 'Lean on Me' at mass and this one kid in the 'congregation' was so inspired he shouted 'We all NEED somebody to lean on!!' He got detention for it too! Sheesh, I thought it was great that he was so inspired. I thought that's what they were TRYING to do with the music.

Enjoyed your judgment posts, bb

Helen

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 04:51:18 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: bill burke
Subject: 'imagine' is a poor choice Haldor
Message:
'We can't all be as magnificently clear thinking and intelligent as you Bill babe.Too many brain cells gone,heredetory low intellect. I like to keep things simple and not get too out of my depth, being a bit undereducated.'Who gives a fuck anyway'?All these opinions and different perspectives.Love seeps through the cracks somehow.
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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 05:42:41 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Haldor 9001
Message:
Hi Haldor,
I think I'll go back underwater here at the forum,
kind of surfaced lately. Usually I just read.

Someone just came through my town pitching the cant we get
along idea and if it wasnt for the snowstorm I would have
gone to see him and said 'buddha caused more abuse of women
than any other man in history'.

Which I can back up.

The reason I get all bothered about Imagine and lots of other
stuff is that that how we think has HUGE repercussions
in how we act and so, ideas that take hold amongst
lots of people causes lots of repercussions for others.
THAT is not out of your education loop and is just basic stuff
also.
'love' seeping through is something to watch out for because it
can put us off gaurd to...well, as an example, the guy that just
came through town crowed about how he met the dalia lama and
that they 'bonded' quickly. WELL, fine that mr feel good
had a moment with a celebrity that he ALREADY looked up to,
but in glossing over the dalia lama's FULL reality, he
was completely useless to the dali lama because the dali
lama desperately needs someone to talk to him straight and not
pretend that he doesnt cause all kinds of bad repercussions
in people because of his views and behaviours.

Some people meet saddam hussain and say 'he is so nice!' (loving)
And some meet prem rawat and say 'he is so nice!' (loving)

If we wont watch out, the veneer of people and philosophies
will ruin our lives.
Behind the veneer is something else. It is being simple
and natural to look behind the veneer.

Simple country guys from many countries learn not to
trust appearences and to see the character of a man
and that requires no formal education and it is a naturally
simple persons normal sense or conscience.
You are plenty educated and up to speed on the subject of
this forum.

We are all equals here.
Only in the guru world and the world of the eastern type
religion is there levels.
That's how come the caste system could find a home in India.
In reality there are no levels.
The tyranny that comes from a religion and culture where
we have to work our way up the 'spiritual path' or a law of
'karma' is a disaster for the children that grow up there.

We cant ignore our duty to separate the facts from the fantasy
for our benefit and those we interact with in our day.
Our support of a way of thinking that is a source of
tyranny is not what a simple and honest man that you aspire
to be will do.

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 10:53:39 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Making judgements
Message:
Judgement is not merely a word it is a sentence
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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 20:08:01 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: ******* judgeme***-Mickey the P..................
Message:
Some say that there is a quote that says judge not.
Wrong, we were told wrong about that.
The guy who said it origionally was a guy who judged
big time.
Spent lots of sentences on the subjects of people, thier
thoughts and thier beliefs and thier actions.
And he was very critical to say the least.
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Date: Tues, Feb 22, 2000 at 20:08:24 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: ******* judgeme***
Message:

What's '-Mickey the P..................' got to do with all this? Anyway.




For sure, JC said some nasty things about some people, ('ye generation of vipers' etc.), but, personally, I don't think he was advocating abandoning judgement/discretion, but rather that stating that if you judge others - prepare to BE judged yourself.




But I might be wrong.


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Date: Thurs, Feb 24, 2000 at 00:56:47 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: ******* *********M.the P.
Message:
Yeah, something like that.
I dont know if that is exactly how Mickey the P would
put it so I was sort of calling for his input on
that.
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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 21:29:47 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: ******* judgeme***-Mickey the P..................
Message:
But don't you think too many wars were caused on this planet by folks misinterpreting those critisisms and judgements?I don't class having discrimination as the same as making a judgement. Discrimination is making a discerning decision about what doesn't feel right to the individual. Judgement is labeling anothers actions as good,bad,right and wrong.What do you think of that old chap, load of crap? I don't think I'll be back online for a day but it will be interesting to hear any further comments Bill.

See you later, nice talkin to Ya

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Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 05:43:42 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: prez day
Message:
Hi Hal,
Excuse any and all very late night/ early am off base
sentences!

I dont think what you said above is a load at all.
It is correct.
Since we have free will, and also are completely built
to have discord no matter what we do or how we try to bond,
wars small and large of all types are our companions.
We can have the same religion, politics, likes and dislikes
and if we spend time together we will quickly find out that
we have issues somewhere. Unless one party gets to dominate the
other and the other agrees with it in some fashion.
Someone once said 'It is stupid to hate someone based on
religion or color, it you spend enough time with them you
will find other reasons to hate them.' !

In another area, since our minds have such unique lenses
and we are so complex, I have to be damn judgemental to
keep a boundry around my unique lenses because others
want to replicate thier views in my head.
And of course it is a hot issue with me because I had such
a loss because of not being independent enough.
The god issue really is tricky.

We are so vulnerable to others telling us all about this
god and telling us what it wants out of us.
And of course you are right,the judging you mention is
popular with religious zealots of all stripes.
Even the buddhists cant stop themselves from finger pointing
and falling into the 'they are so unspiritual' ego trap.

rawats 'one thought is too much, just meditate and serve,
I am the ultimate ruler' domination has made me perhaps
overly touchy on the whole issue but it isnt like he is
the only one trying to enlist me in this or that army of
thought.

Anyway, thanks for letting me get some of this out.
This forum serves us all in many ways.

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Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 08:07:24 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: prez day
Message:
Nice posting b.b.Message received.I can't discuss any further now as I must get my kids to school,speak to you again sometime
love Hal
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:06:12 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Mother of EV's officials Nightmare now online!
Message:
In order to spread his 'message' around the planet, Maharaji is running a huge organization. An estimated 30% of the active premies are involved in the various levels of Elan Vital's systems.

Here is some documents that will give you an idea of what premies are involved in (beside meditation).

What's going on in EV these days EV's documents say it all !!

More stuff coming.

That new section is not connected to the rest of my website yet.

This will definitely give a hard time to some guys .... I'm really sorry for you guys, this is nothing personal.

You've already seen most of this in various posts, I thought they deserved a special section .....


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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 20:25:58 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: The Mother of EV's officials Nightmare now online!
Message:
Jean-Michel,

Good stuff!! It would be very interesting to know how much the dishes cost as sold at a 'discount' and how much they are normally priced at.

Also, how did that song go 'chanting, fasting, CHARITY, austerity?' It's great isn't it. You get a few hundred thousand people to sing every night that charity won't do it for them. Then what do you do? Set up charities all round the world. FUCKIN' GREAT!!

That's my intellectual contribution for the millenium over with. The strain has been far too much for me brain.

Coach

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 20:35:25 (GMT)
From: coach - I know!
Email: None
To: Coach
Subject: I read some, tried to say more
Message:
but felt numb

selene - overwhelmed by all the fucking bs M managed to get
people to put together

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:22:38 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: The Mother of EV's officials Nightmare now online!
Message:
Good work. The more current the info. the better.
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:03:53 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Werner Rawat's next Satellite Offering
Message:
So now we see the elite chosen ones have been offered a workshop OPPORTUNITY with THE SPEAKER. What about the rank and file? The maggotry? How about selected excerpts from the Speaker's exclusive workshop. No extra effort involved. It allows the common premie to drool a little bit and wish they could participate in the propogation effort.
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 19:39:25 (GMT)
From: Anarchist
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: Werner Rawat's next Satellite Offering
Message:
There will be no propogation effort by the time we've finished doing our job. I am ready to play another card in this little game.

Hint: What is the best thing to use to fight a so-called antichrist?

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 02:42:47 (GMT)
From: enemy
Email: None
To: Anarchist
Subject: Werner Rawat's next Satellite Offering
Message:
christian zealots?
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 12:58:44 (GMT)
From: Mr D
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Don't forget
Message:
For other stuff there's The ANYTHING GOES forum

and to see all the ex-premie sites just go to

Not Maharaji's mixed bag

Input and suggestions always welcome. Just email me, the webmaster.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:12:44 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Broadcasts in India to be twice a week (news)
Message:
From the www.enjoyinglife.org web site:
news on Indian broadcasts.
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:03:25 (GMT)
From: mantis
Email: None
To: G
Subject: collect more money then drop the project (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:28:06 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: mantis
Subject: collect more money then drop the project (nt)
Message:
Hmmmm, could be. I didn't think about that.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:37:10 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Is this guy after world domination ...again? (nt)
Message:
Is this guy after world domination ...again? (nt)
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 06:16:54 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: breath vulture
Message:
Yes he is and he has a ton of old footage of us westerners
doing the premie thing.
He is going to use stolen money to invade the tv's of the third
world and yes he is going after the lord of the universe
title again.
He is too young, too rich and too insane.
He is going to continue as the master of life and
ensnare many more. Optomists that think he is pathetic and
finished are unfortunately not correct.
He is a deciever with great potential
for more harm.
The neccesity of this little band of forum 5 will grow.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:35:21 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Other gurus
Message:
Swami Shankarananda:

'I have always felt that a lot of the problem with the Guru comes from our misunderstanding of Indian culture. I was in the first wave of Western seekers. We took everything that was said literally. They would say, 'The Guru is God ' and we believed that Baba knew every detail of your life.'

' I noticed that the Indians would say, ' He is omniscient. He knows the past and future. He knows your mind completely. He is Shiva Himself!' But then I observed that they would treat him like an ordinary person like keeping things from him and even lying to him. I began to understand that the Hindu mind loves to milk the highest rasa from a situation and then has a separate standard for practical reality.Thier conversation and language always moves towards the highest. They love to speak expansively to creats great feeling in the moment. Yet they would often not act on how they spoke...' 2/97

About Muktananda - Siddha Yoga Website

A re-post for those that didn't see it.

JB

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 00:37:44 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: Other Messiahs?
Message:
There is a cultural gap, but how many gurus exploited it to the extent of associating themselves to Christ returning to save the planet (or whatever other belief conveniently fit the description of an incarnating savior for humanity)?

'I declare I will establish peace on earth' is a direct quote which cultural criteria cannot explain. Yes, there are liberties in interpretation that people take, but exploiting these liberties to build an impossible picture which could never be anything but imaginary.. at the cost of our lives or the misdirection of thousands of lives.. is that 'cultural'?

We could all walk a tightrope between this 'cultural' phenomena of singular mastery and Godhood in order to pretend that some immature boy was going to deliver a troubled planet into a new age of peace and spiritual realisation. We're the ones who had to rationalise it and attempt to bridge the gap which was 'cultural', and waste our lives thinking we were attempting a noble purpose.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 22:04:22 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: Other gurus - pretending
Message:
I've had that impression about the Indian guru culture, although I never thought about it much. There seems to be an unstated assumption and agreement that the guru thing is a make-believe play. It's like children playing, pretending. A part of you believes the play, and the more you believe it, the more fun it is. But at the same time, you know you're pretending. Like when I was a kid, pretending a ladder was a rocket ship. Also, I remember at a job hearing some women talking about what was happening to some friends of theirs. Then I realized they were talking about a soap opera as if it were real. If you were to press them about it, they would admit it was just a soap opera, but they would probably not appreciate it, you would be ruining their fun.

But I think with a lot of gurus it goes beyond them being in a role of an actor. It stops being just a symbolic situation. The distinction between pretending and reality blurs. Many gurus start abusing the situation. That's where the problem is, when the damage done becomes greater than the benefits.

There was a famous psychological experiment where people pretended to be inmates and guards in a jail. Anyone could leave at anytime. They had to stop the experiment because people forgot they were pretending. The 'guards' started abusing the 'inmates' and the whole thing got out of hand.

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 00:23:38 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Other gurus - pretending
Message:
A part of you believes the play, and the more you believe it, the more fun it is. But at the same time, you know you're pretending.

I don't know about that, G. I was pretty serious about what I believed Maharji to be. And he seemed more than willing to reinforce those beliefs to the point where I found it so intense it scared me. We're talking about God made man here. That's intense. Maybe in the Hindi culture, it's not so much. God in the form of man is a pretty blase I suppose. But in the west, before Maharaji, most westerners didn't believe God came to earth since Moses or Jesus. Now all of a sudden, here he is in our own time. How blessed we are. Right? It wasn't fun at all. It was bullshit and it put me though an emotional wringer. I know a lot of people took The Lord Of The Universe bit with a grain of salt. I wasn't one of them. I was torn between disbelief and belief and fear for my soul if I was wrong to accept Maharaji as my Lord. It wasn't a fun time at all.

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:46:21 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jerry and G
Subject: The pretending GOD
Message:
G wrote:

A part of you believes the play, and the more you believe it, the more fun it is. But at the same time, you know you're pretending.

Jerry responded:

I don't know about that, G. I was pretty serious about what I believed Maharji to be. And he seemed more than willing to reinforce those beliefs to the point where I found it so intense it scared me. We're talking about God made man here. That's intense. Maybe in the Hindi culture, it's not so much. God in the form of man is a pretty blase I suppose. But in the west, before Maharaji, most westerners didn't believe God came to earth since Moses or Jesus. Now all of a sudden, here he is in our own time. How blessed we are. Right? It wasn't fun at all. It was bullshit and it put me though an emotional wringer. I know a lot of people took The Lord Of The Universe bit with a grain of salt. I wasn't one of them. I was torn between disbelief and belief and fear for my soul if I was wrong to accept Maharaji as my Lord. It wasn't a fun time at all.

It wasn't fun at all. At times maybe some of us felt special for being the ones accepting this 'God', but the duality and fear were there too, and it was scary. I just found this he said around 1978 (?).

'It is to provide the missing ingredient that the Lord incarnates forth from time to time in human body. For without obedience for and surrender to him, one can neverreceuve the Holy Knowledge. It is simple and logical. We can only receive God as much as we open ourselves up to Him. So to know Him we must love Him. Yet we cannot love an imaginary concept of God. We can only love what we have had experience of. It seems insoluble, and this is why the Lord incarnates Himself. It is impossible to love God without coming into contact with God Himself in human body.'
-Sant Ji Maharaji

Yes Jerry, many felt like you, I did. Lard saying he was God over and over and we believing it created a lot of confussion. There were happy 'freedom' like experiences, but the bad moments were many too. A constant non- fun battle. Of course, he warned us, he gave us Krishna and Arjun examples and we fought, what? The surrender part comes when you gave up and said, okay, you are GOD.

Close to the city were I lived when I was a kid there was a section where a great number of gypsies lived, and how did they made a living? Scaring people. People that didn't know any better. The police would come and the gypsies will leave running, not before having scared some about 'their bad luck coming'. They would go around town grabbing people's hands, in a very pushy way saying that they could tell the future and they would start saying that something very bad was going to happen and that if you give them some money they will tell you what it was. I see what Lard does for a living is something like that. Something is missing in you, something is missing, let me tell you what it is, but is no good intention in it. Chains are chains, even if put in the name of 'god'.

Are there happy premies enjoying their involvement or they are just people who bought out of fear an explanation of themselves through 'God' and now they are trapped as trapped they can be? I chose the later. Reading Shri Hans satsangs-speeches-is the same: Only the Guru knows. Bullshit! Sad that we have to breath and remember once in a while with whom we related our breath with. That is scary. Maybe because I am a new ex. Can some body say something about this if anybody feels or felt it in some point? Thanks.

SB

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 03:12:58 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: The pretending GOD
Message:
Sad that we have to breath and remember once in a while with whom we related our breath with. That is scary. Maybe because I am a new ex. Can some body say something about this if anybody feels or felt it in some point? Thanks.

I felt that way for awhile after I became an ex. It passed. I'm sure it will pass for you too. Maharaji has nothing to do with your breath outside of recommending the use of it for a meditation technique. You may want to continue doing that if you get something out of it. Some exes do. Me, I never got much out of meditation so I no longer practice. Now my breath, to me, is a biological function which draws in oxygen and releases carbon dioxide. I'm content with that.

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:26:17 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Correction to 'Other gurus - pretending'
Message:
I didn't phrase that correctly. By 'you', I didn't mean us or western followers of gurus.

I was putting myself into the mind set of the casual Indian follower of a far less intense Indian guru, one that plays the game as an actor and doesn't abuse (at least as much) the game.

I didn't mean to imply that it was fun for us. I took it seriously also.

Maharaji certainly abused the game, it was never presented as a game to us, but as a reality.

The concept of 'God' in human form, generally speaking, has a much different connotation in the west (in my opinion). In Hinduism, you have all these different 'Gods' and people often will have different gurus. In Buddhism, 'God' is viewed more impersonally (except for worshipping Buddha, which he probably never intended). In the west, if you combine the 'God in human form' concept with the concept of 'one God who is a person' ... yikes.

I read a web page about Totapuri, who maharaji claims as his great-great-great-grand-guru. Totapuri apparantly was a monist, and so would have considered the idea of God in human form as ridiculous.

Actually, I think these is a hell of a lot of abuse over in India in the guru business. I work with Indians, and one told me that there is a now a general feeling in India that the guru business is a big joke.

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:45:34 (GMT)
From: Mu
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Correction to 'Other gurus - pretending'
Message:
Laugh when you're happy.
Cry when you're sad.
Eat when you're hungry.
Sex when you're horny.

After all, you are god in human form. You can do whatever you want to!

Just don't get some crazy idea that others should want to worship your ass. :-)

PS by you I mean everybody Why? 'Cause god is omnipresent!

HAHAHAHAH and HOHOHOHOHO

PPS There ain't no saviour, no messiah - never was - never will be - it's just you and me and we may or may not agree. ;-)

HAHAHAHAH and HOHOHOHOHO

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 05:09:33 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: my (_|_)
Message:
Well, a few women worshipped my (_|_),
but my (__|__) isn't what it used to be.
I need to work out again.
(It hasn't really grown THAT much)
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 07:35:42 (GMT)
From: Mu
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Try Latin dancing your (__|__) off! (nt)
Message:
HAHAHAHAHAH and HOHOHOHO
nt
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 17:46:10 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: G
Subject: About your (__|__)
Message:
My butt has never been bigger since I started hanging out on the internet with the forum and with email. And now that I am working at home I really have to work at exercising and keeping fit. So just a warning, sitting in a chair staring at a screen will make this (__l__) turn into (______)(______).
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 14:45:26 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: Latin dancing - good suggestion
Message:
Yes, latin dancing is fun, especially some of those dances. It's also a good workout.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:51:58 (GMT)
From: Mirror
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: Other gurus
Message:
Given that the bulk of the premies who feel burned today were active during the heyday of Indian spiritual imperialism, this is a very valid point to be taken into consideration when looking at the roots of your collective frustration. The paradox of a potentially divine being placing his feet on the same mundane piece of ground as the rest of humanity is an impossible concept to grasp with the normal set of logical guideposts. As it always has been.
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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 19:58:57 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: Other gurus
Message:
You say:
'the paradox of a potentially divine being placing his feet on the same mundane piece of ground as the rest of humanity is an impossible concept to grasp with the normal set of logical guideposts'

Does this mean that it is 'an impossible concept for you to grasp' that you could ever see yourself as being a 'potentially divine being'?

Do respond.

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:28:27 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: That's because it's bullshit Mirror...
Message:
Mirror,

if there's any such thing as 'divinity', then we're all divine mate. Not just the chubby bloke who likes to get dressed up as Krishna.

Anth the Divine.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 23:46:42 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: Other gurus
Message:
So what exactly does this point say about the 'roots of our collective frustration'? If it's so valid in considering our frustration perhaps you would explain why.. or are you going to keep us guessing?
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:41:36 (GMT)
From: Mirror
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: The guru enigma
Message:
This propensity to view a so-called satguru in absolutes, set against the mundane reality of his day to day life creates a difficult dichotomy in your mind to reconcile. There becomes a need to view normal mundane actions as something more than mundane, even though they are not. To read into his words and actions to find divine meaning when there was none intended. To look at someone who is as much flesh and blood as you are and conjure up reasons why they are so special, when the truth is you are no less special than he is. But in order to realise that you have to know your own divinity, which is what the satguru comes to show. And that's what makes him so damned special.

Hey, it's easier to just throw your hands up deny God's existence!

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 20:13:41 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: The guru enigma
Message:
Mirror (on or off the wall, as you may or may not be) -

you say:

'the truth is you are no less special than he is.'

You then say:

'But in order to realise that you have to know your own divinity, which is what the satguru comes to show.
And that's what makes him so damned special.'

Special as in ... no less special than you are...???




Do clarify, .... please?

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 02:31:21 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: the mundane reality of his day to day life
Message:
Mirror,

I don't know what you believe about Maharaji or other so-called satgurus, but...

Difficult dichotomies should be analysed, not swept under the rug.

The problem with the mundane reality of Maharaji's day to day life is that it includes behavior that is not in keeping with a 'fully realized soul', and I'm not talking about brushing his teeth. Consider the Jagdeo and Fakiranand incidents, the excessive wealth, poor planning, crazy demands, obsessiveness, etc. His behavioral problems can be greatly elaborated on.

Another problem is with Maharaji's words. He has contradicted himself many times. He has said many incorrect statements and claims, such as 'I declare I will establish peace in this world' (1970). He has insulted, belittled, and berated his followers. He has lied. He has resorted to threats, such as the 'rotten vegetable satsang' to attempt to keep people from 'leaving him'.

I do not deny God's existence. I no longer 'insult' God by thinking that one person has some monopoly on 'showing God', as if God is at his command. Why would God be at the command of a person?

I can see someone setting an example of sanity, serenity, kindness, love, mindfulness, intelligence, and other human virtues. I can also see someone clearly explaining meditation techniques, and being an example of what meditation can offer. But Maharaji has demonstrated an inconsistancy in these virtues. He also changed the techniques. Also, I feel that he gives a superficial explanation of them. One time, someone asked him how they work, he said 'I don't know', I heard him say this. Yet he claims to be The (One and Only) Master.

I feel that the most another person can do is set an example, be inspiring, and explain things clearly, they cannot show you God. If only it were that easy.

G

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Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 05:37:41 (GMT)
From: mir
Email: None
To: G
Subject: as if you knew
Message:
what do you know about what a fully realised soul looks like? are you one?
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Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 22:09:33 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: mir
Subject: Well, are you? Tell us about it.
Message:
Please tell us about your experiencia. He is not watching. You can talk here.

:)

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 02:17:33 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: Yes! I hereby throw up my hands! Yes, indeed!
Message:
To look at someone who is as much flesh and blood as you are and conjure up reasons why they are so special, when the truth is you are no less special than he is. But in order to realise that you have to know your own divinity, which is what the satguru comes to show. And that's what makes him so damned special.

Hey, it's easier to just throw your hands up deny God's existence!

You better believe it is! This is the funniest thing I've read her in a while (unintentional category only).

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:05:26 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: Other gurus
Message:
Isn't that what we in the West call hypocrisy?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:07:51 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: As Shiva's 'ambassador',they could rethink ...(nt)
Message:
As Shiva's 'ambassador',they could rethink ...(nt)
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:06:54 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Latest jokes heard in EV
Message:
I've got them on the French forum:

Maharaji once called Jagdeo and tells him: “Listen Jagdeo, you’ve been with me for 40 years now, and I have to confess something. I’m not God, and I’m doing all this only for money.” Seeing Jagdeo upset face, he takes him by the shoulders and tells him, ‘Don’t worry, that was a joke’.

They tell the same story with Charnanand who answered, “I don’t care Maharaji, I feel good being with you.”

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:27:33 (GMT)
From: michael
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: wry grin :-' and a wink ;-)
Message:
The lame joke is the highest art form.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:20:20 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: That, my friend, did NOT translate
Message:
You're the guys that like Jerry Lewis, right?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:34:16 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What did you expect from premies in Belgium?
Message:
No need to translate ......
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:11:34 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: YOU said that, not me
Message:
But I know what you mean. All the Belgiques (?) I know are completely like their stereotype: boring, boring, BORING!

No, I don't know any.... but it COULD be true, couldn't it?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:26:09 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I thought YOU Americans would laugh!
Message:
I'm wrong!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:58:53 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I thought YOU Americans would laugh!
Message:
Americans & humour, I think you're overating them a lot there J-M
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 03:46:05 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Me funny American
Message:
Har, har, har. That cracked me up, Ham. Americans and humor. Overating. Gufaw! You wanna hear something funny? You're tape is in the mail. (I am just joking, I hope you understand).
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 03:50:01 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: O, that's a real knee-slapper, Jer -- yuck yuck
Message:
Jerry,

Relax. Everytime the English start talking about their superior sense of humour all you have to do is remind them of Jerry Lewis who has to be their ultimate embarrassment. As if!

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 12:34:19 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You had to be there
Message:
Hi Jim,

I know Ham's just ribbing us, and I'm just ribbing him back. But to hear a Brit talking about American sense of humor. What was their 'funniest' export in the passed five years? Mr Bean? They've got to be kidding us.

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 16:38:51 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: A funny thing about Mr. Bean
Message:
Apparently he was involved in a hit and run accident. He ran out of his car and into a local warehouse but the witnesses fingered him based on his distinctive Mr. Bean way of running (arms flapping or something. Never watch the stuff myself).

No, these guys have nothing to be laugh at us about. Ask them about the Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy or the 85 % of Monty Python that WASN'T funny.

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:06:06 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Monty Python?
Message:
What about the Full Monty? This was supposed to be a funny movie, a comedy. But, inadvertently, they made a drama about the lengths disenfranchised workers will go to to put bread on the table.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:00:58 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Nervous Wreck - Defining Moments
Message:
Belonging to maharaji's cult made me a nervous wreck. By the time I started to fade out in 1980 I was frazzled to a crisp. No wonder, after the hoops I was made to jump through.

Here are some defining moments that helped me get all twisted up in knots:

1. David Smith visited the Honolulu community and 'gave satsang' about a brother who had the good fortune to meet maharaji and tell him how wonderful Holy Name was. Maharaji corrected the brother and told him he hadn't been experiencing Holy Name at all. The moral of the story was that we were incapable of knowing when our experience was real. David drove home the point that 'devotion to maharaji' was all we could count on. This gave me some level of permanent anxiety because part of succeeding at practicing knowledge was to 'experience' Holy Name.

2. The Five Commandments: When I found out we were supposed to take these things as the Word of God it sent me into a tailspin. What did 'Never Put Off Until Tommorrow What You Can Do Today' mean? Never put off what? I was neurotic enough when I joined this cult. How was I ever going to get everything done today? No one ever explained what these commandments really meant. I asked but everyone said they were self explanatory. It put me into a state of worry. Okay, so I finally figured out it meant never put off practicing knowledge. But which one of the three legs of the table should I do first? Was I doing enough service? Maybe I was listening to too much satsang because I was putting off service until tomorrow.

3. Maharaji's big famous 'Tube Satsang' in Germany in 1976. He introduced the devotion phase of the late seventies by using an analogy of premies passing through a tube. We'd be going along fine, zipping through the 'tube' of practicing knowledge, when all of a sudden with no warning, the tube would be gone. The tube would reappear later but we wouldn't know when. Meanwhile, if we didn't have enough momentum in our practice of knowledge, we wouldn't make it to the part where the tube reappeared, and we'd be 'lost forever'.

4. 'Lost Forever' - Take your pick. Over the years, maharaji presented several choices of his interpretation of burning in hell (read leaving the cult).

a.) A crystal glass dropped to the floor which breaks into a zillion pieces that can never be repaired, symbolizing the destruction of your soul resulting from failure to follow maharaji correctly.

b.) Rotting vegetables - need I say more.

c.) Taking a break from formal meditation. Maharaji's famous satsang about the guy who decided to take a break from meditation just to see how much better he felt when he did meditate. The guy gets swept up in Maya and never makes it back to the lotus feet.

5. The 'lead weight attached to your foot'. Just in case you were actually getting comfortable on this 'ship' of maharaji's, you could start worrying about what he called 'chaining a lead weight to your foot and throwing the weight off the ship'. It didn't take a PhD to figure out the weight would drag you overboard and you'd be in the vague hell he repeatedly described. What exactly was the lead weight? The best I could figure is it meant getting too wound up practicing knowledge. Uh-ohh, another thing to worry about. Now I was worrying about worrying.

6. And finally, the number one cause of wracked nerves... the iron. Your mind would always tell you that your iron was left on while you were meditating, and that the house would burn down if you didn't stop meditating and check it out. What if the iron was really left on?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:23:28 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Yes, that's great
Message:
Really good post, Pman. Where's Roger when we need him? And the iron .... so true. I know four premies in Ottawa alone who burnt their houses down after that satsang.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:51:20 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: the 'lead weight attached to your foot'...
Message:
Re. the 'lead weight attached to your foot'...

This deserves exact quotes. Like WHEN and WHERE.







P.S. Jim, some of the world's population who don't major either in English OR in sarcasm might not 'get' you when you say that you
'know four premies in Ottawa alone who burnt their houses down after that satsang.'

Think of the wider audience, ...


... and at least give an emoticon (or something) to express yourself more HONESTLY, and CLEARLY.


Please?

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 02:53:28 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: But that ruins it
Message:
Obvious humour don't gotta be telegraphed. It's in there somewhere. Look it up.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:14:50 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: Jim, help me out.
Message:
Do you have any Guru quotes that include the thing about the lead weight? I think it would've been around '78 and it went something like this...

And it's like, you're cruising along in maharaji's ship and everything's fine, just beautiful. And it's like you can just let go and enjoy the ride. And maharaji tells you, 'Just let go'. And Premies, it's up to us, we can just see, By His Grace, how beautiful it all is, or we can get seasick. And it's like, some Premies attach a lead weight to their ankle and then they try to get rid of the lead weight by throwing it off the ship... And maharaji says 'No, don't do that' and it's like, Premies, it's all there...'

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 02:43:30 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: No, but I got one a these, and a one a these
Message:
1) ...if we really don’t realize the necessity of knowledge in our life, then we are not going to even try. We’re not even going to try to gain that experience that Knowledge has to give us. That use becomes obsolete. That Knowledge itself then starts becoming obsolete in our life.
And then, as you must have heard in my satsang, vegetable are very nice things. We eat them every day. But if you bring tons and tons of vegetables in your house and don’t eat them, they will rot. And when they rot, they won’t be very healthy, and they will just smell bad.
And Knowledge is the same way. It’s beautiful. But you have to utilize it. If you let it sit, it’s just going to start deteriorating inside of you. It’s like, we have something so precious, and we are not using it. And that experience is just going to start becoming worse and worse and worse.

2) When you give up all your hopes, when everything is dead, when everything is gone, when everything is over, when it's all finished, it's all gone, it's all dead [you already said that one, bud] and when that true surrender for even a moment strikes you, Guru Maharaj Ji comes and picks you up, and takes you to His oasis. He takes you to His place where you always wanted to be. Adn you know, I mean that's so wonderful, it's so incredible. Do we really deserve that, to even be able to go back to the oasis?

I mean, who are we to be able to deserve to go back to the oasis? What have we done in this life that might be worth it? Nothing. It's just tumbling boo-boos one after another, one after another; that's all we've done in this life. But that's not the way how we'll be able to really get out of here. Out of this mind. Only by Guru Maharaj Ji's Grace. Only by Guru Maharaj Ji's Love. [yes, it finally got captialized this time.] Only by Guru Maharaj Ji's affection.

and:

3) So that mind, that factor that's always against us, can get us; it has the potential of getting us. What I'm trying to say, is that I'm not trying to kid you when I say that the mind can zap you, the mind can get you. It can get you. And we have to be aware of that, and do something, and the only thing we can do to avoid that, is to surrender to Guru Maharaj Ji. So it's only our effort, premies, that's really going to do it. .....'

****

'Because without Guru Maharaj Ji, everything just deteriorates in our lives. And it's like, maybe to some people that's like, 'Well, nothing has deteriorated in my life yet.' And yet we have to understand that for those people it is deteriorating, and that we have to come to that one conclusion in our own hearts.'

or:


4) You know, you have to imagine, you ahve to always comepensate for the fact that you are travelling at about 550 miles an hour. So you are travelling, you know. And yet, your fate is going to be very fatal, because you have not let go. You have not surrendered. I mean, it would be ideal if you would be travelling that fast and you had surrendered. It would be fantastic, it would be beautiful. But the thing is -- it's really nice to travel that fast, but if you have not surrendered yourself, then it's very, very, very fatal. Because -- well, you might end up at the wrong place at the wrong time, very, very soon.

So premies, if we really look for a second into our hearts, truly within our hearts, and not fake ourselves out, we will find that one of the major problems that we have is our own mind. Our mind has become such a part of us, and it is a problem; it is that thing that has been creating so much mischief within inside of us. Therefore, we always need to keep that mind quiet, to keep that mind shut, to keep that mind out of the way.

****

'And I know a lot of people give this example that Guru Maharaj Ji is the sailor, is the person that if you hop on his boat, he can take you from one end to the other end.

***

If you just jump off, that's where you're going to stay. You're probably going to drown. And if there's a current coming, it's just going to sweep you away. And then maybe, after you die, you're going to become really buoyant, and then it'll just take you and put you ashore somewhere.'

****

'This is what I'm trying to say: that forty hours of satsang is close to what we have heard this year, and when we go back into our crazy mind, there is no difference, it's the same old thing again.

And I know that how much we all really desire to be constant, I know that how much we all desire to to be always here. The sun can go down, it can rain, it can freeze, it can be hot, and I know that we would never want to leave. And is it because you like Kissimmee, Florida or this aprticular location because it's so close to Disneyland?'

****

'You know, this is like what I said; that man I could work, I could have a job, I could do this, and I could do that, but the only reason that I would even want to work is to be able to just come to these satsangs and enjoy them. So what else is there in this world?'

****

'Initiators are not these rainbows that you imagine, and as a matter of fact to me, everytime that they get up there and give all this satsang, I fell like we should take that satsang they give, print it and send a copy of that satsang to that Initiator. 'Make that effort, dummy.'

****

Like I was saying yesterday, what can we do, what are we going to do in our lives? Are we going to go up to Guru Maharaj Ji and say, 'Listen, here is your rain check, I have this rain-check right now, I want you to give me liberation right now, otherwise you're going to get it?' You don't do that to Guru Maharaj Ji -- you say, 'Guru Maharaj Ji, help.' Like I was saying yesterday, you say, 'If you could find any place, any point, anywhere, anything, if You could just find a little place for me, then just please stick me in somewhere, because I want to be on Your boat, and I want to be with You so desparately. I am already indepbted to You. Don't expect anything from me, I will do whatever I can by Your Grace, but don't expect -- I am already too much indevted to You. How can I ever repay You, what can I ever do? And I can't pay You even if I have the whole wealth of this entire world: When I can't even pay you with that, Guru Maharaj Ji, then what have I got, what is there that I can give You?'

'It was just like this mind. Once it throws you over, what chance have you got? You try to climb aboard, or you try to even -- you can't do anything, it's just got you. You know, it's just got you. *** So that mind, that factor that's always against us, can get us; it has the potential of getting us. What I am trying to say is that I'm not trying to kid you when I say that the mind can zap you, the mind can get you. It can get you. And we have to be aware of that, and do something, and the only thing we can do to avoid that, is to surrender to Guru Maharaj Ji.'

****

'As a matter of fact, if you really look at the purpose of a city, it would be totally impractical to have a city. Why? What do you wnat a city for? If you are going to have satsang all the time, what you really need is a great big satsang hall, you know, in which you have all the facilities. Everything. Have a great big arm-rest on one side, and when lunchtime comes, a green light goes on that means, you know, undo your shelf and there's food there, water, everything that you could possibly need. You eat your food while you are listening to satsang. You can punch a little thing in the computer ... bring me my clothes, and the green light goes on and you undo your shelf, and there are your clothes.'

****

'Shri Maharaji used to say that if we are going to be like a rock, then what can change us? You cna take a rock and soak it in water for years and years. Sometimes where there are these cliffs, and the ocean water and the tide comes up, it just really bashes against these cliffs and gets them all wet, but as soon as the low tide comes, they're all dry. You know? So if you're going to be like rocks, if our minds are going to be unchangeable, if that's going to be our outlook, that focus that is supposed to be on Guru Maharaj Ji, that focus is constantly going to be connected with our minds, then nothing can change it.'

****

'But still, what happens to us? I mean what happens? What goes wrong? What happens? People jsut get up after satsang and that's what's going to happen there too. *** And I know that when Marolyn sang that song, and then Rich Neal sang that song, it was very beautiful -- and then I left, then peopel got up. What did you tihnk of first thing, why did you even get up?'

****

'Of course when you are protected by Guru Maharaj Ji's shelter, when you are protected by Guru Maharaj Ji's Grace, there is no problem, there is no concern, there is nothnig going on except satsang, except an experience. An experience so overwhelming that nothing can compete with it, nothing can join it, nothing can even come close.'

and:

5) 'This fly was broken; in the same way, the mind has to be broken. First of all, man has to close his carnal outer doors so that he may concentrate his heart on his devotion. Devotion is the stick and with his devotion he has to kill this crazy damn fly.'

or:

6) Mind has been created because two things are hitting each other. Your soul tries to hit and come out, you know. Not come out really, but just to give off this spiritual spark. Your souls wnats to give off this light, this peace inside which the soul has got. but outside it's very carefully covered with sins, egos, prides and so many things. So as soon as it tries to come out it hits against these coverings and something is produced. A holy thing hits against an unholy thing and another thing comes out, and that is ignorance. A complete vacuum. And that is your mind.'

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 19:18:39 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, I got one a these!
Message:
Jim,

'The predicement is that as you receive greater energy during meditation, it carries over to the times you are not meditating, when your old habits of mind to which you are still attached hold sway. The temptation is to use these new energies to strengthen your old habits, to use the meditative energy in the service of your ego.

But if your yearning is to go to the depths of your own soul - if your journey is to seek waht Buddha had, what Christ had, what Ramakrishna had, what Abraham had, what Mohammed had - then you must beware of dissipating these energies through your old habits. You must channel them to go deeper.

We must remember the highest wisdom - that energy and love are one.'

-- Ram Dass

from Journey of Awakening: a Meditator's Guidebook

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:20:05 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Jim, help me out.
Message:
You mean this stuff isn't DOCUMENTED any more?

(Back in the 70's, 'He' (remember those upper case capitals?) just had to fart and somebody wrote a fuckin' POEM about it)!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 22:12:25 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: cqg and Powerman
Subject: What I want to know is.....
Message:
PowerMan: How is it that YOU can sound so much like M, when you aren't quoting anything..... hmmmmm??????? JUST KIDDING!

That was one of the most authentic-sounding non-quotes that I've ever heard! You've got him down pat, boyo! he he he :-)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 22:49:45 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: What I want to know is.....
Message:
Mike,
He really did brainwash me. I can summon up his rap even now, 20 years later.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 15:30:28 (GMT)
From: out of touch
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: wot did we used to say?
Message:
cat shit on the hand?Bowla soup sad guru dave marriage is ok?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 15:53:59 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: out of touch
Subject: Bwah ha ha ha ha ..... you aren't too out of touch
Message:
OOT: Good one!!!! :-)
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 15:56:31 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Oh, I forgot
Message:
OOT: Jay's cat shit on the hand, brudda! Now, go do some mendication! :-)
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:05:32 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: You mean 'OJ's hat?' Shit. 'An 'and'?(as in glove)
Message:
You mean 'OJ's hat?' Shit. 'An 'and'? (as in glove)

or should that be 'OJ's hatchet? & 'and'? (as in glove)




BTW a 'mendicant' is a beggar.




And whose donations is M living off these days????? Hmmmmmm?

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 14:56:27 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: Bowl o' shriek sad group o' dev's mirage key jerk
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 08:54:35 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Get therapy with the Lard HIMSELF !!!!!!
Message:
Here is a copy of a part of a letter that some premies have received ........

-----------

' You are invited to attend a seven-day Training Conference...Maharaji has accepted the invitation to attend.

In order to achieve a high level of intimacy and exchange, participation will be limited to about 85 participants.

The following may be helpful towards your personal preparation for attending the training.

1.The Training Session is not a 'typical event' with the Speaker. The format of the session is designed to increase one's awareness of what it takes to support the Speaker's work and his vision.

2.The training requires a willingness to participate and examine oneself in a group environment in front of the Speaker.

Your discretion is important. Please honor this invitation by keeping your attendance and the location confidential.

Sincerely,

The Training Conference Team

------------

This is one of the most crucial thing happening in EV these days ........

I know EV's officials are AGAIN get mad at me, what can I do ?

I'm not the source of all this!!

Do you want more details?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:40:25 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: This Is A Fundraiser.......
Message:
In the midst of the election year, when presidential candidates fly into my fair City on a regular basis to collect money for the nuveau cyber-rich for their campaigns, (Did you know there are over 57,000 millionaires in Santa Clara County, CA alone?), it's pretty clear this little 'intimacy and exchange' event is no different. When Gore comes to town special invitations are sent to people with money likely to donate. They are told it will be an 'intimate' dinner or event. People feel special. They pay $5,000 to attend, and then donate a load more. I would expect the 'invitations' got sent to the relatively well-heeled.

This financial aim is blatantly revealed in the cult-code that the whole shindig is designed to increase one's awareness of what it takes to support the Speaker's work and his vision. If that is not about fundraising, then the Pope is NOT Catholic.

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:25:48 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: This Is 'A week with the Speek' the g-geek
Message:
I don't think it is fundraising for EV, it is just an opportunity for m to gather a small speakers fee.
Lets see most motivational speakers get upwards of $20,000 for a few hours, what do you think a 7 day fee from the speaker himself would be? Do you think there are 85 premies that would drop 10-15k for a week with the speek - gawd I ought to sell that jingle to the speck
A week with the Speek - discussing sorry sapsuckers and other related topics. What do the Indians call being in the room with the speek? darspeekshun? do you think the speek comes here for a speek-a-boo to see what we are up to - I can't wait to get my cameras in.
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 04:29:13 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: You're right on the money, Ben
Message:
I was thinking about your numbers; 85 participants X 10- 15,000
dollars(US) EACH, and at first I thought nah, that isn't possible. Just too steep an admission fee.
But then I realized that m COULD probably get 85 people who DO have the means, and who would be willing to do anything for this opportunity of a lifetime. I mean we're talking about a whole week of getting intimate with GOD INCARNATE, aka Maharaji!
And so,I believe your numbers are right on.
Which means that its going to be a million dollar week for m on this gig alone, while the PWKies are fed loads and loads of hampster food.
Unbelievable!
What a business!!

AND...does anybody even think for a moment, that m
would want to give this up?!

NOT!! IMHO.

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 04:15:14 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Not a Fundraiser for EV a Fundraiser for the LORD
Message:
Elan Vital/Maharaji (let's not play the game there is any distinction) have to be very selective about who is invited, and they have to remain paranoid about the public/government knowing about this, especially WHERE IT IS, because somebody might infiltrate, and swarms of meaningless, poor, premies who aren't 'invited' because they don't have the donation potential, might mass outside the 'intimate event.'

They have to be paranoid because at this 'intimate event' there will be a lot of talk about sending Maharaji MONEY. It's illegal for Elan Vital to do that, but that's exactly what will happen. Maybe not now that JM has exposed this, however.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 23:46:19 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: JW
Subject: And how's this for a stinking great LIE..!
Message:
Maharaji has accepted the invitation to attend.

As if some EV hotshot decided in an idle moment 'wouldn't it be great idea to hold an event to raise awareness of service requirements. We could have a guest speaker...hmm, I wonder whether Maharaji himself might be interested..? Let's invite him.'

As if, indeed.

Why do they word things like this? Is it some paranoia that if they appeared to be OBEYING M's directives rather than HIRING him as an expert consultant in the area of personal growth, it would look to outsiders like the EV set-up was a cult leader's money-spinning scam rather than a legitimate charity?

(Perish the thought!)

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 04:07:06 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: It's About Taxes
Message:
EV has to carry on the charade that EV runs everything and just asks Maharaji to come and speak. If the truth were known, that Maharaji RUNS Elan Vital, that Linda Gross as president of Elan Vital would not so much as fart without Maharaji's permission, then the supposedly non-profit Elan Vital would be seen for what it is, a shell used for Maharaji to avoid paying income taxes.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:44:57 (GMT)
From: yes yes yes!!!
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: This Is A Fundraiser.......you bet it is
Message:
read my darshan cam post below. I said the same thing though not as eloquently as you. Please keep making special guest appearances JW!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 16:37:13 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I am cracking up at this.
Message:
They sound so weird. So incredibly weird. The Speaker. This use of capitalization just is so, so..... ludicrous. When he goes to the bathroom do the residence premies refer to him as the Crapper?

Boy I bet there are intensive efforts to seek out the mole feeding you this stuff. I'd watch out for that. I can myself think of some ways to catch the person if they do not know who it is but then they have trouble with logical thinking so it might be more challenging for them.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 22:24:19 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: You know.....
Message:
Susan: This could be a way of getting themselves off the hook if M doesn't show. After all, they never did say the SPEAKER (I can use caps, too) was M, right? Kind of a weird way to look at it, but ya never know...... :-)

No, in reality, it's an old trick I've seen used too many times to count. I'm sure JW and others could easily back this one up. They use the 'cryptic' language everytime they want people to think it's a..... shhhhhh..... don't tell anyone..... (incredibly well publicized) S.E.C.R.E.T!

It's all so pathetic! Using that type of language to make people think they are somehow special is pathetic. The fact that they continue to fall for it, likewise, is PATHETIC!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:02:02 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: me too Susan
Message:
participate and examine oneself in front of the Speaker.

What Speaker??? A Deluxe Amp? what speaker? the capitilization is indeed hilarious.
I am picturing me staring down at my belly button kind of just trying out some new odd
meditation technique or whatnot. Too funny. Who do they
get to write this stuff? Hell they can pay me! It could be fun.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:18:38 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: LOL Selene..ala Fried Green Tomatos
Message:
The scene with the women standing over mirrors examining themselves....aha, that is what they are up to!

( Not unlike the penis poking story Mishler told the reporters)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:23:22 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: I remember that scene
Message:
good one Susan! They are going to great measures (ahem) to
get that team spirit going.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:42:48 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: are you saying that the women will have mirrors
Message:
and the men will have rulers?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:50:25 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: The men should be forced to have rules
Message:
good reality check for em.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:01:32 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: rulers I mean
Subject: I am sure there will be rules
Message:
many many I can just imagine.
I hope we get to hear more about this one.
We could write a whole short story!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:07:36 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: selene
Subject: Just as always though I suspect Rawat will not
Message:
measure others with the same yardstick he applies to himself.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:09:19 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Just as always though I suspect Rawat will not
Message:
HAHAHAHA No I suspect that would produce diminishing
returns.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 15:51:55 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I can remember a time.....
Message:
JM: I remember a time when you could talk to the SPEAKER, by just going to the Wilshire Blvd Ashram (I 'think' it was wilshire) and plopping your rear on the floor....... for FREE! Now, he wants to charge money for it and keep it secret?????

Of course, he wasn't so popular and in-demand back then..... I mean, he had what, a couple thousand devotees then? Now, he's got what, a couple thousand devotees????? he he he... :-)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 15:58:30 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: I've been to Woodside Avenue!
Message:
Before receiving 'knowledge'!

You just had to sit and wait ... inside the residence!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 19:24:37 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: high level of intimacy and exchange there, J-M?
Message:
Was there a '... high level of intimacy and exchange' there, Jean-Michel?

Believe it or not (you're unlikely to) I lived at the residence at Woodside Avenue for a month or two in the early seventies.

What happened? Well, M had already gotten intimate with the contents of my wallet, and any exchanging that went on was of my time and sweat for his living the life of Riley.







BTW, with reference to one of your threads below, what makes you think I'm a vegetarian?

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 09:29:09 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: high level of intimacy and exchange there, J-M?
Message:
BTW, with reference to one of your threads below, what makes you think I'm a vegetarian?

I said you didn't experience anything practising k BECAUSE you're not a vegetrian. So goes the theory .... Or too much beer, or that Polish vodka ....

Believe it or not (you're unlikely to) I lived at the residence at Woodside Avenue for a month or two in the early seventies.

What happened? Well, M had already gotten intimate with the contents of my wallet, and any exchanging that went on was of my time and sweat for his living the life of Riley.

I believe you did. I also clearly remember the experience I had waiting in that room ...


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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 20:42:23 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I said you didn't experience anything practising k
Message:
J-M, you say: 'I said you didn't experience anything practising k BECAUSE you're not a vegetarian'

I didn't? (experience anything)??? Mais non, mon brave.

(And if the ashram diet wasn't veggy, then I don't know what was)

But enough of the silly banter ... what would you like me to tell the Charity Commission UK?

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Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 08:42:31 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: I thought you didn't have intimacy with Rawat!
Message:
Except for your wallet !

Reg the charity commission, well, I don't know.

Why don't you discuss this with a Brit lawyer ? I'm not a specialist, and I assume these guys need to be motivate the right way ...

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Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 09:30:06 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Talking of wallets...
Message:
Lawyers don't come cheap! - way beyond my means, unfortunately.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 14:41:03 (GMT)
From: DOD
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Get therapy with the Lard HIMSELF !!!!!!
Message:
'The training requires a willingness to participate and examine
oneself in a group environment in front of the Speaker.

This is beginning to sound a lot like an EST meeting. Come and bear your soul for the weekend. Grovel and feel better. Bring $5 000 to cover the cost of the 'EXPERIENCE.'

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:01:56 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: DOD
Subject: The closer you get....
Message:
You're right DOD...it does sound like some m version of EST, or perhaps an Insight training seminar sponsored by John Roger Hinkins and his MSIA cult.
JM has already shared with us on these pages that several top level PAMS have been known to attend Insight seminars, and I'm wondering now if they reported back to m, sharing techniques that he could employ in one of his own seminars, such as the kind just reported by JM.
Whatever the case, for those privileged, select, elite premies who will attend, get ready for the ultimate, 'Master' mindf**k, up close and personal with the hampster himself. As far as examining oneself 'in a group environment in front of the Speaker', sounds like confession time to me. Confess your secrets, weaknesses, faults, so we can use them against you should you ever leave m and dare speak out.
Ah yes, the closer you get to m, the more important it is to remember...YOUR DEODERANT AND MOUTHWASH!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 10:34:51 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Get therapy with the Lard HIMSELF !!!!!!
Message:
Do you have any idea how much this event will cost a participant?

I've always enjoyed it when he's referred to as the Speaker.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:02:48 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: But what about the REAL cost?
Message:
We'll get the info.

But what about the real cost in terms of brainwashing and abuse?

This is abuse to its max using that sort of group training seminars in a cultish environment.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:17:18 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Who else is responsible?
Message:
It kind of reminds me of EST or one of those groups-a workshop

I've often wondered if these people you guys refer to as PAMS are aware that Maha is a fraud or are just really sucked into the trip-I guess this is a JUDGMENT AT NEUREMBERG type issue.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 14:53:27 (GMT)
From: DOD
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: Who else is responsible?
Message:
Do you think this is an indicator of Maharaji's increasing paranoia? Isn't this a little beneath him? All this trouble for around eighty-five devotees--as he said in Atlantic City, 98, there is a new wave coming.

SURPRISE MAHARAJI, THE SPLASH IS ON YOU! He has fewer slaves-- ess capital-- and more need for secret cult makeovers for the truly brainwashed.

He is probably hoping that these special victims will be able to inspire what's left of the herd in their cities.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 16:55:19 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: DOD
Subject: this is not far from the Darshan cam...
Message:
he is selling himself. His attention is a marketable commodity for premies and probably a powerful fundraising tool. One way to get the people who have the bucks to part with them is to allow the faithful a few hours in a room feeling like the privledged few with the Speaker himself. I guess it isn't that far from celebrities at a political fundraiser. Only if Barbra Steisand will be at the dinner she is not referenced as ' you will eat at a table with the Actress'

'My dear Madam, we have already established what you are, now we are only negotiating the price'

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:14:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Can I go?
Message:
Oh boy would that be fun!

Maybe, one day someone will tell us what it was like. I can see it now. Some premie breaks down 'in group' (that's a good thing. One of the facilitators goes back to refill his coffee all the while listening carefully as the premie cries little jags. Everytime someone else tries to taek the floor, the premie mutters out some unintelligible phrase, his lips opening akimbo, long strains of tear-lubed saliva spanning their gape. Maharaji looks completely intent BUT sneaks a few too many peaks at his watch. The facilitator fills up his coffee for him.)

Then the premie, still holding the floor (but moments before he'd have lost it, whether he knew that or not) turns and starts screaming at Maharaji. Every last ugly thing he's heard on this forum -- even the lies that we made up just to get attention, like that Maharaji was ever unfaithful to his wife (AS IF! Didn't you see films like 'Family of Love'? That was eternal love, bud. Don't fool yourself!). The guy starts accusing Maharaji of being -- get this -- a slimy, greasy cult leader.

'Look, you fucking little Hamster ....' everyone's too shocked to do anything at first. Maharaji hides behind a frozen-mouth smile. ''ho the fuck is this guy, anyway?' he wonders. Then it hits him. 'Of course! The guys' from France. He's an old friend of JM, that little frog bastard, traitor. that's it. He must be!'

Maharaji smiles a littel stronger because now he thinks he can put it all in perpsective and rout out this ex-garbage once and for all.

'So, are you a friend of Monsieur Khan, by chance?' Maharaji looks at a few poeple pointedly as if he's just laid the foundation for the greatest question ever. Yeah, he should have been a lawyer. Wait, he's the Lord ... oh whatever...

But the guy just looks at him, stops for a sec, and says 'no. Who's that?'

Maharaji sighs a bit, then turns nervously to the facilitator and, whispering just loud enough for anyone to hear, complains about the coffee. The Hamster has lost.

I want to be there.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:23:42 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Can I be there too?
Message:
Superb scenario Jim - it's almost like it's already happened and you were there:-)

John.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:21:51 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Oh Jim, that was a great post. And...
Message:
I bet if we ex's put up enough money and requested an audience in which his safety could be assured we could buy his attention. I think he loves money that much. I don't think we want his attention however, badly enough to put up the kind of money he would find enticing enough, but I suspect he would buckle to an 'indecent proposal ' if the price was high enough.

What do you think?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:24:08 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: How about girls? (warning - possibly sexist idea)
Message:
What we need is one gorgeous piece of bait. Jessica Rabbit, kind of thing.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:13:37 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: sexist idea- won't work two reasons
Message:
No ex could tolerate the idea of Rawat ogling her. That would be like subjecting yourself to Miguelito Loveless.

Unfortunately, there are probably still enough young attractive premie women anxious to exchange their souls ( and bodies ) to be close to the Speaker. Well, in this case the F*****. I do not get the impression his appetite for women is as insatiable as his appetite for money either. But that gives me an idea,

How about just offering him a TBone, a case of Jamocha Almond Fudge and a lot of Congac?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:18:53 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: 'YOUNG premie women' Where? Africa?
Message:
Susan,

I thought there WEREN'T any young premie women except in 'off-shore' accounts where membership is a family thing. But whatever, you're probably right. Money, money, money.

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