Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 03:09:57 (GMT)
From: Feb 13, 2000 To: Feb 26, 2000 Page: 3 Of: 5


Haldor -:- Do you know me -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 08:38:12 (GMT)
__ DOD -:- Do you know me -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 14:43:39 (GMT)
__ __ Haldor -:- No offence taken -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 15:17:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mir -:- No offence taken -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 00:41:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ You suck! -:- TO MIR (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 14:53:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- We love you, Haldor. YOU'RE ONE OF US NOW!! -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 16:44:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- On second thought, can we do this all over again? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 16:58:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ JB -:- premies/feelings? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 16:00:39 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- Do you know me -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 12:00:19 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- Do you know me -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:38:49 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- The Great Escape -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:21:12 (GMT)
__ Jethro -:- Do you know me -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:16:32 (GMT)
__ __ Haldor -:- To Jethro Robyn John and Anth -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 13:20:07 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Where were you? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:24:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ hamzen -:- Where were you? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:46:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- Busy -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 13:13:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Goodnight. -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:23:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Busy-so that's what you call it! -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:52:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Busy-so that's what you call it! -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:38:24 (GMT)

Mark -:- Coming Out -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:15:29 (GMT)
__ cqg -:- If this isn't the kiss of death... BEST OF !!!! -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:31:12 (GMT)
__ __ Death -:- Where would you like to be kissed? (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:58:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Life -:- F**k off Death!...and get a life!! (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 05:33:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Death -:- Time's on my side, your rotting sack of bones (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 16:27:40 (GMT)
__ JW -:- Anyone Find This Condescending? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:29:25 (GMT)
__ Anon -:- Coming Out -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 15:58:02 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Coming Out -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:48:30 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Anth, vous doth protest too muchethabout this here -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:21:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Anth, vous doth protest too muchethabout this here -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:26:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mark -:- Anth, vous doth protest too muchethabout this here -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:58:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- MIKE FINCH alert! MIKE FINCH alert! -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:36:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- MIKE FINCH alert! MIKE FINCH alert! -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 00:39:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Now this is teamwork!! :) -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 03:58:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- MIKE FINCH/Palace of Piss -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:56:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- wednesday nite SCIENTIFIC satsangs?!? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 22:03:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Intellectual Satsang -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 16:34:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Anon -:- What actually happened. -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:54:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Love these stories, Anon...they're classics!! (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:14:45 (GMT)

Selene -:- The Final Cut -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 03:36:31 (GMT)
__ Ms. K -:- The Final Cut -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:48:20 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- The Final Cut -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:51:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ JB -:- The Final Cut -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 16:09:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ms. K -:- The Final Cut -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 05:01:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- The Final Cut -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 05:03:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Ms. K -:- The Final Cut -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 05:11:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- The Final Cut -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 05:15:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- The first cut was the deepest ... Let it bleed? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:16:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- The first cut was the deepest ... Let it bleed? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:30:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- The first cut was the deepest ... Let it bleed? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:49:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- always can count on you ham -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 22:10:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- I have NO idea why I can't write one-so DO! :) nt -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:43:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ did it again -:- because it's not going anywhere -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:55:07 (GMT)
__ SB -:- you of course -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:22:30 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- you of course -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:24:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Helen -:- crushed by a cactus -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 14:40:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- crushed by a cactus -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 16:30:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cqg -:- crushed by a cactus? ... could this be similar? -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:47:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- crushed by a cactus -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 17:40:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- crushed by a cactus -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:00:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- like a cactus tree (OT) -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 20:59:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- you of course -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:28:00 (GMT)

G -:- maharaji's similarity to another guru -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 02:07:16 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- An interesting experiment... -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 22:01:34 (GMT)
__ G -:- maharaji's similarity to a televangelist -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 16:23:23 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Would you say this was similar? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 10:53:39 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Thanks -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:29:02 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- Thanks -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 07:25:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- The Grifters - hi selene I'll answer you -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 23:52:45 (GMT)

Sir Dave -:- Get the bastard -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 02:04:23 (GMT)
__ Deputy Dog -:- Get the bastard -:- Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 05:46:30 (GMT)

Saint Gisabir -:- The Tale of the Five Blind Masters -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 21:28:57 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Great... -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 12:05:19 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Too funny -- (but is that a threat?) -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:09:25 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- The Tale of the Five Blind Masters -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 23:45:50 (GMT)
__ Joey -:- Good one Nigel! Love it!! (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 23:43:01 (GMT)

Brian -:- Faster Posts -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:00:05 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- yes! very fast Posts (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 03:36:04 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Outstanding! -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 22:16:49 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- Thanks honey! :) (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 20:05:11 (GMT)
__ Mike -:- SUPERB, Brian! -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 18:53:54 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Brian? -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:29:30 (GMT)
__ __ Brian -:- PAS DE PANIQUE !! -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:54:53 (GMT)
__ JB -:- Faster Posts -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:24:01 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- (nt) means 'no text in message', as to (ot)? -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:41:12 (GMT)
__ __ Sister Perpetual Agony -:- OT -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:34:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ JB -:- OT / nt -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:48:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ and when someones says -:- Hey you FNG... -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 18:12:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Hey you FNG... -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 18:44:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ king of URL? -:- @}---,--'---- (belated Valentine rose) -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 19:12:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- @}---,--'---- (belated Valentine rose) -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 20:03:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ king (little k) of URl -:- Ah, my loss! :'( - but YOU gave that name! (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 20:36:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Ah, my loss! :'( - but YOU gave that name! (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 21:27:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Ah, my loss! :'( - but YOU gave that name! (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 21:44:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- some more :-)s -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 21:18:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ (_I_) -:- Ah, my loss! :'( - but YOU gave that name! (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 21:03:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ emoticon / eroticon! -:- Ah, my loss! :'( - but YOU gave that name! -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 21:33:59 (GMT)
__ G -:- Messages load MUCH faster - thanks (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:05:09 (GMT)

Jerry -:- Sleeping With Extra-Terrestrials -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 11:47:44 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- Extra-Terrestrials snore and wet the bed -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 05:19:13 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- No relationship? I wonder -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 14:09:48 (GMT)
__ __ Runamok -:- Maybe you're rushing them, Scott. -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 05:33:47 (GMT)
__ Runamok -:- Extra-Terrestrial Ancestors -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 13:50:03 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Extra-Terrestrial Ancestors -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 14:15:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Runamok -:- Extra-Terrestrial Ancestors -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 15:08:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Extra-Terrestrial Ancestors -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 22:06:22 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Frightening -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 13:42:24 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Frightening -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 14:24:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ JB -:- Frightening -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:43:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Put on your glasses -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 22:13:27 (GMT)

Harry -:- Guru Louie -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 11:10:51 (GMT)
__ John Gotti -:- This Thing of Ours -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 22:24:32 (GMT)
__ __ Guru Louie -:- Say harmony real slow. -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 04:43:56 (GMT)

Haldor -:- Learning more -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 07:53:42 (GMT)
__ Happy -:- Learning more -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 14:55:28 (GMT)
__ Brian -:- Short post? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:23:28 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- Short post? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 05:18:06 (GMT)
__ JB -:- Learning more -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:30:43 (GMT)
__ __ kmdarling -:- Yoganand -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 23:19:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ JB -:- Yogananda -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:25:24 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Learning more -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 12:33:24 (GMT)
__ Fred -:- Learning more -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 08:53:04 (GMT)
__ __ JHB -:- Learning more -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 14:37:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- You were a good premie. You've got cokesang -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 15:27:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Angry -:- Beersang- aka Drunksang -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 14:52:01 (GMT)

mantis -:- Would you perhaps enjoy a good discourse? -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 04:00:35 (GMT)
__ Jack -:- Would you perhaps enjoy a good discourse? -:- Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:45:57 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- More mumbo jumbo -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 18:01:05 (GMT)
__ __ mantis -:- More mumbo jumbo - I agree with you that there is -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:35:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- One man's wine... -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:39:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ mantis -:- One man's wine... -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:17:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- You know mantis, for a predatory insect.... -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 03:46:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ mantis -:- just move a little closer, Jerry.... -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 07:51:55 (GMT)
__ __ Joey -:- and not only that, Sir D, but... -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:00:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mr D -:- and not only that, Sir D, but... -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:25:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- and not only that, Sir D, but... -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:40:59 (GMT)
__ Haldor -:- Would you perhaps enjoy a good discourse? -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 06:08:30 (GMT)

Joey -:- OK, LET'S RUMBLE!! -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 03:43:21 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- That's a line in the sand -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 04:22:05 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- That's a line in the sand -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 04:33:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Special Agent -:- Did someome just say 'Mormons' - Check this out. -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:46:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Special Agent -:- Did someome just say 'Mormons' and here's another. -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:52:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Don't be naive -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 20:08:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- David Icke -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:09:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- All my friends are cult leaders -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:39:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Jim, did I hear you say 'naive' ? -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 23:09:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Joey, you did, you did -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 00:09:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Jim, I did WHAT?? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 00:30:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Maybe he's like my friends -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 00:50:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Maybe he's like my friends -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:10:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- OOOps! -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 00:35:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Michael -:- Puhleeze!!! NT -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 19:14:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Couldn't have said it better, Michael! (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 20:12:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Thanks Mike -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 03:53:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Huh? -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:06:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- nothin' -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:18:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- I'm such a moron, sorry! -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:50:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- static electricity -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:14:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- THAT explains it! -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:35:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ vampyre selene -:- Divorce Rate In AZ -:- Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:48:03 (GMT)
__ mantis -:- yeah, so? (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 04:04:39 (GMT)

Christina -:- Deputy Dog you rule, come on back! (NT) -:- Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 18:45:38 (GMT)
__ Deputy Dog -:- Thanks Christina! -:- Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 15:38:24 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- Christina come on back! -:- Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 22:58:04 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- Christina come on back! -:- Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 23:10:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Fertility -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 00:44:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- Fertility -:- Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 03:06:06 (GMT)


Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 08:38:12 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: Anth the wise
Subject: Do you know me
Message:
Dear Anth,
No we don't know each other but you are on the right track.You probably know Bob Dennis who moved down to the Algarve 10 years ago as did I. I remember you Anth because you were actually one of the few premies who gave very entertaining satsang. You were very intelligent and witty then but youv'e got even better now.I'm quite supprised to realise that you left M . I was involved from 1972-last week.If you ever come down this way for a holiday look up Bob and Marie and they'll tell you who Haldor is. Haldor is the pseudonym chosen for the forum but my name is Steve. As its a common name and could be confused with the millions of other Steve's I'll stick with Haldor the baldor and a little bit wiser (thanks to the forum).
Keep up the good work Anth.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 14:43:39 (GMT)
From: DOD
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Do you know me
Message:
Congratulations on seeing the light, Haldor. I hope your nickname Haldor the Balder didn't offend too much. I was just joking.

PS I don't know you but I'd like to.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 15:17:41 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: DOD
Subject: No offence taken
Message:
Dear Ken Dod,
I'm getting luv bombed here,sure your not trying to get me to join your cult!There seems to be infinitely more feeling on this forum than in the premie community!
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 00:41:47 (GMT)
From: Mir
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: No offence taken
Message:
Hey Hal. Interesting how quickly you jumped over to the other side with just a little bit of coaxing from your new-found friends. Seems a little too drastic to me to be real, but whatever. Or maybe you weren't standing on very solid ground to begin with. The defining motivation for you appeared to be the realisation there was only three of you in Algarve, which didn't seem to be a good enough demonstration of Maharaji's 'divinity' for you. Whatever works for you Hal, you're a grown up now.

Of course you realize, the 'love' being heaped upon you is mostly pavlovian in nature to reward you joining the fold. They will create a nice warm cyber-womb for you to make you feel welcome and to make sure the transition 'takes'. Take it from me, if you temper your rejection of Maharaji it will be retracted in a heartbeat.

Best of luck Hal. Hope you will be able to find your way. May your perspective be untainted by the intrusions of others, including me.

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 14:53:38 (GMT)
From: You suck!
Email: None
To: Mir
Subject: TO MIR (nt)
Message:
Your brainwashing.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 16:44:05 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: We love you, Haldor. YOU'RE ONE OF US NOW!!
Message:
We could all tell when you first arrived that there was something special about you. Welcoem home, Haldor. We've been waiting. It's like the family is finally all coming together. We're getting stronger, every day, in every way.

(By the way, did you bring any pretty girls with you? Money? Assets? Connections? Skills?)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 16:58:08 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: On second thought, can we do this all over again?
Message:
Haldor,

You are the very first premie to ever quit the cult because of this forum. Could we maybe back it up and play out the mind's seduction scene again? Like, no offense, but you were a little -- how can I say this? -- 'easy'? You know?

Like how about the part where you come in all guns blazing saying 'He neve said that!!' Then, well we've got all these quotes here. I'm good at that. I gotta bunch a quotes. See, then someone can say, Jim, the quotes!' And I can go get you a quote or something. You know?

Or how about toying with us a bit? Shp did that. Shp was really into the Jagdeo issue. He was even able to see that if Maharaji let Jagdeo continue to circulate as a 'saint' while he was molesting kids that that wasn't good. We all got really excited when Shp said that. And that went on for a long time. We all really liked it.

You know, Roger's got a whole list of bullshit arguments premies make on his site. It's called the Maharaji Apologia, straight out of Newton (I think). Maybe you could check it out and find something?

Otherwise ..... shit, what happened to that guy yesterday that didn't want a name?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 16:00:39 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: premies/feelings?
Message:
H,
Did you say premies and feelings. I'm sorry maybe a couple x's I did feel some love w/ premies and had some compassionate clear exchanges. But you know - that's not why I got involved...Thank God.
Ok, I don't hate premies - but come on most are socially stunted, emotionally immature and in great need of therapy.
Little tangent.

JB

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 12:00:19 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Do you know me
Message:
Steve,

May I ask - is Bob Dennis still a premie? Either way, give him my regards - we were in Brighton Ashram together in 1974.

All the best,

John Brauns

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:38:49 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Do you know me
Message:
Dear Steve,
1972-last week! I love it! So glad your out, another Brit for the next Latvian meeting! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:21:12 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: The Great Escape
Message:
Hi Haldor,

I actually thought Haldor may have been Bob- who I borrowed the ten quid off in the poker game.

It was just before Bob and Marie left for the Algarve.

Paul and Joan Dunne, and Blair and Mary moved down there too didn't they?

How are they all? Give them my love if you see them.

Anyway Haldor, I think it's great that you're breaking loose.

I feel like I'm waiting in the woods, in 'The Great Escape'. Steve, code name 'Haldor' emerges into the moonlight from the bushes with carboard suitcase and false passport.

It's ok - the gestapo are all in a conference, telling each other that the world outside is almost ready to come flooding into the camp, because it's so much better in the cells, away from those terrible trees, sunshine, sex, drugs and cheese and pickle sandwiches.

They run to the gate and then mutter amongst each other, but they don't come after you.

As we all know from years of experience, Elan Vital couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery. (Unless it's for heeeeem of course).

I know it may be a bit soon, but have you thought about writing your journey yet? I'd love to read it.

Welcome back Steve.

Anth of the Escape Committee.

(We should ask Brian if he can put up the theme music from 'The Great Escape', when you log into the forum. Der da da der, der da der....)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:16:32 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Do you know me
Message:
Hey Haldor, Send my best to Bob Dennis, we were in the same k-session in 1974 and was the housefather of Acton ashram when Ilived there. Love to Marie also.

Jethro

PS I amost forgot, Bob knows me under my former name of Eddie Fisher

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 13:20:07 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: To Jethro Robyn John and Anth
Message:
Well I'll be buggered.I'm in good company!Jethro formerly Eddie Fisher you were another of the premies I always found inspiring along with old Bob Hayward and Ron Jeeves.Hope you're well.Bob Dennis is a sort of wavering premie but I hesitate to speak on his behalf. When we came down to Portugal the doubts started setting in for most of us old premies. At first we tried to show a few videos to the foreign contingent here but they were'nt that interested and seemed to be having a good time without any guru crap. Then we went into trying to integrate into the eX-pat life,cheap booze,hash ,parties,live music,sunshine and beaches. That was more successful than trying to convert people.We then went into some new age explorations as there's lots of that stuff here and found it to be a load of bollocks generally.I say we because Bob and I have travelled similar paths. Surprisingly there are16 old premies in one small village,like Millbrook in the sun,most of whom are wavering, or out of it now.This was where I started to look at what M was doing in the world and seeing that far from being something that would expand it was doomed to fail. People just can't relate to devoting their life to someone you never get to speak to ,know nothing about,and cetainly in Portugal are unlikely to see.Actually the folks living an ordinary life are much brighter looking than the grey premies one sees at the programs.I still believe in love but there must be a way that doesn't involve the divisiveness of particular cults and religions. Maha is just too exclusive for intelligent, sussed people of which there are a lot around this area.Anyway love to you all .HAL/STEVE
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:24:04 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Where were you?
Message:
Jethro,

you miserable middle aged raver you- where were you on Saturday night? And where was your hedonistic buddy Hamzen?

They gave us the keys to the bar again, and Jean-Michel gave us a knowledge review.

(You weren't at a local video event were you?)

Anth the Latvian Bar Tender.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:46:55 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Where were you?
Message:
Sorry Anth, I'm going threough one of those stages where ANY mention of shitface is either SO boring, or likely to bring me to a state of apoplexy.

Once I'd got it off my chest here, it was like, gone, as a topic of real interest. Only pop in here now out of a sense of duty to the survivors.

Now if you got some decks in, maybe some class A's, all mention of the guru banned.........oh and where are all those female brit exes, they can't all have become new age earth grandmothers.....

Having said all this I'll probably turn up next time! And how wonderful to be inconsistent and not even waste a moment worrying about it.

If you're speaking to JHB, or if your online John, your GD cd is safe & sound, if you're desperate I'll get it posted to ya.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 13:13:59 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Busy
Message:
Anth, Honest sir I wasn't at a rave on Saturday night or a video event and I almost made it to the Latvian club......but something cropped up at the last minute and I couldn't make it.

Hamzen's great-great-great grandmother's boyfiend kicked the bucket, so he(Hamzen) pent the night comforting her. I'm sure you understand.

JC


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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:23:18 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Goodnight.
Message:
Hi Jeth'

Both yours and Hamzens wit, humour and theatricals were sorely missed. Chris, Jean-Michel and Marianne were all much larger than their forum selves.

It was much of the same as before, ending, as before, in oblivion.

(And of course we had a knowledge review from a drunken mahatma at 2 am. I'm hoping to get the photos onto a website soon).

anth the oblivious

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:52:02 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Busy-so that's what you call it!
Message:
'But something cropped up at the last minute and I couldn't make it.'

No comment!!!

By the way how is KT?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:38:24 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Busy-so that's what you call it!
Message:
KT is doing great and so is Lucy and Stacy.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:15:29 (GMT)
From: Mark
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Coming Out
Message:
Anon,
A little brotherly advice here. Fantastic writing, but It seems that you are still holding quite a powerful emotional charge, and even still harboring a sort of 5% ' loyal opposition ' committment/ belief/ respect for the Lord of Malibu.And I don't think it is because of your highly civilized Englishness. In other words,I think you are still quite snagged in all this,and the emotions are still septic and festering. Why I asked myself? Two possible reasons: your continual adherence to ANONominity,and secondly,your not directly confronting your dragon / ex-master.Exposure in both directions will extend your freedom.
As we know each other,and I know that you have submitted items to Maharaji in the past that he not only accepted but utliized - I sugest you put together a compendium of 'best of Anon'-except in your OWN NAME(maybe a dramatic reading,with original music in the backround ! ),and foward it to Mr Rawat.
Your clarity, authenticity, and emotional & reasoning IQ beg the opportunity to be part of his afternoon reading one dayHe deserves it too.(Perhaps you can send iif along with one of those photographs the service department requests these days.)
Its sort of like kicking a soccer ball at a guy on a ladder-suggesting that he stand up and be counted after a successful undercover career- but you know what its like when the music keeps looping.Go for it ( I told you I'd get you back one day!)unless you are savoring this intermediary notariety
more than Final Extraction .
Also KatieD is 'no-knickers Katy' of Brighton sandwich board fame.You SHOULD get in touch with her.She is growing,teaching,continuing to be a premie despite her detainment in Rawat village(see her MotherWave ad on the back cover of Magical Blend)There is much that she can share. And of course you have my number.
You deserve more- but I'll let you off at this.Billy sends her love.Time to take Your knickers off with a hearty Fuck You and run free. . .

Mark

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:31:12 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Mark
Subject: If this isn't the kiss of death... BEST OF !!!!
Message:
If this isn't the kiss of death... BEST OF !!!!

Why?

Grab the laughs while you can ... (!)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:58:49 (GMT)
From: Death
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: Where would you like to be kissed? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 05:33:26 (GMT)
From: Life
Email: None
To: Death
Subject: F**k off Death!...and get a life!! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 16:27:40 (GMT)
From: Death
Email: None
To: Life
Subject: Time's on my side, your rotting sack of bones (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:29:25 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Mark
Subject: Anyone Find This Condescending?
Message:
Is it just me? Maybe.

I do find it incredible, however, that anyone who was a premie for more than 15 minutes really thinks Maharaji is moved by the pain he caused his followers, such that sending M a letter of some sort would have any effect on him or that he would even read it. Give me a break. [Many of us, including me, have done that to no apparent effect.] Maharaji is emotionally stunted. As Anon pointed out, when Anon (and many or us others) were trashing our lives, families and futures, slaving/rotting away in M's ashram, Maharaji was out enjoying his opulent lifestyle with all its planes, palaces and automobiles, not to mention cognac, drugs and sex. He didn't give a shit about Anon or any of his other devotees then, and he doesn't now.

Really, it's accepting THAT reality that really sets you free, in my opinion, from all the cult-progamming, once and for all, and if Anon or any other premie or ex-premie holds out any hope that Maharaji will, before his dying day, atone for any of his atrocities, it is likely a futile hope.

And while I agree that dropping anonyimity helps speed that along, as a kind of declaration of independence, it really is beside that other basic point. Also, sometimes you have to think about other people besides yourself when revealing your identity.

Sorry, haven't been around much lately, but popped in and felt the need to say that.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 15:58:02 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Mark
Subject: Coming Out
Message:
I think you are still quite snagged in all this,and the emotions are still septic and festering. Why I asked myself? Two possible reasons: your continual adherence to ANONominity,and secondly,your not directly confronting your dragon / ex-master.Exposure in both directions will extend your freedom.

Life is sad believe me missy, when you're born to be a sissy, with out the vim and verve. But I could change my habits, never more be scared of rabbits, if I only had the Nerve. I'm afraid there's no denyin' I'm just a dandylion ( a fate I don't deserve.) But I could show my prowess, be a Lion not a 'mow-ess', if I only had the Nerve!

I sugest you put together a compendium of 'best of Anon'-except in your OWN NAME and foward it to Mr Rawat.

Whoa there! I'm scared of the great Wizard!!

Its sort of like kicking a soccer ball at a guy on a ladder-( I told you I'd get you back one day!)

...And then Nigel accidently rugby kicked that full pot of white paint all over that poor woman's child's bed!! Ha Ha HA! HO HO HO and a couple of Tra La La's!

Also KatieD is 'no-knickers Katy' of Brighton sandwich board fame.You SHOULD get in touch with her.She is growing,teaching,continuing to be a premie despite her detainment in Rawat village(see her MotherWave ad on the back cover of Magical Blend)There is much that she can share. And of course you have my number.

I think I will give you a call to remind myself about this. I must remind you I am a married man now..

You deserve more- but I'll let you off at this. Billy sends her love.Time to take Your knickers off with a hearty Fuck You and run free...Mark

Message received. We will be giving your suggestions due consideration. Love to you and Billy by return!!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:48:30 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Mark
Subject: Coming Out
Message:
Hi Mark,

It's important that we have some respect for each other when we post here, and top of the list is respecting someone's anononymity.

I remember the first post I put up on Forum 3, about a year ago (not as AJW). Even though I was completely anonymous, my heart started beating fast and I felt very nervous about putting it up.

First, we need some courage to open our minds up to the 'non-cult' view of 'knowledge' and 'Maharaji'.

Then we need some courage to look at Ex-premie.org and the Forum.

Then we need more courage to post here.

One of the main purposes of the forum is to provide an environment where people can feel comfortable sorting out all their feeling about leaving a cult and 'perfect master'.

Is 'Mark' your real name? If it is, great, you feel comfortable about being yourself with your real name here, and maybe you think if everyone uses their own name, they'll feel good too, so why not encourage them to do it?

It doesn't work like that though Mark, because we're all delicately different creatures, with absurdly different needs and goals.

There are plenty of good reasons why people need to remain anonymous, and we should all respect that.

You have to do what you're comfortable with. I use my own name, but that's because I'm more comfortable doing that. When I posted here anonymously, I would have hated it if someone had revealed who I was. It took me a few months before I posted my Journey at Ex-premie.org, and used my own name.

And I'm a fully mature, blatant, self-publicising, thick-skinned, aggressive, insensitive, choleric, ego-maniac.

What chance does a normal, sensitive human being stand?

Anth Ginn.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:21:36 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth, vous doth protest too muchethabout this here
Message:
Anth,

There's nothing wrong with Mark making the suggestion and Anon demurring. That's okay. Who knows? Maybe Mark's argument makes good sense to Anon and motivates him to do this or that. That's okay. That's persuasion. I wouldn't say this if I thought Mark was crossing some line about respecting Anon's choices. But I don't think he did.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:26:59 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Anth, vous doth protest too muchethabout this here
Message:
Jim,

I think Anth posted just because Mark is not a regular here and may not be aware of the our tolerance towards consistent anonymity. But you're right of course that there was nothing wrong with Mark's post and Anon's response shows that it was well taken.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:58:35 (GMT)
From: Mark
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Anth, vous doth protest too muchethabout this here
Message:
I consider myself a regular irregular.I contribute on a regular irregular basis,did my journal under my given hebrew moniker Appleman(here in Malibu,for ChristSakes!),and did hang 15 feet on a ladder painting a house20 years ago in Brighton begging Anon not to kick the ball at me,as I was, despite my devotional ardor,quite afraid of heights!
Merciless,sensing my deer in the headlights condition,he gleefully kicked the ball closer and closer . . .
So there is context.Actually,that whole day was a Marx brothers movie.3 Scorpios out painting this ladies house for 200 Quid.Us spilling a 1/2 gallon of paint trying to cover it up,panicking...a true laugh.
All the while Mike Finch waiting for the painting proceeds back at the ashram...

Anyway,Anth...there's a context here...and a genuine suggestion,that he recieved.

Mark

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:36:43 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Mark
Subject: MIKE FINCH alert! MIKE FINCH alert!
Message:

All the while Mike Finch waiting for the painting proceeds back at the ashram...

Hi Mark,

I'm trying to identify if the famous UK premie Mike Finch, is the same as this guy:
FINCH, MICHAEL R DR.

who appears alongside Randy Prouty as a director of a company called 'Advanced Communication Technologies.'

Now I already know from JHB that the UK premie Mike Finch is quite an educated guy which could account for the doctorate attatched to his name. Is there anyone who can confirm that UK premie Mike Finch does in fact have a doctorate of some sort?

Also, does UK premie Mike Finch have the letter 'R' as a middle initial? Can anyone confirm?

Please guys, if anyone can help, I'd really appreciate it. I'd really hate to have to hire a private-eye to get to the bottom of this one.

Although eventually....well, I'm getting ahead of myself here:::))

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 00:39:18 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: brauns@dircon.co.uk
To: Joey
Subject: MIKE FINCH alert! MIKE FINCH alert!
Message:
Last time I met him he lived in Leicester in England. I just checked directory enquiries (Information for you yanks), and they have one Michael R. Finch listed. Email me if you want the number.

John.

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 03:58:43 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Now this is teamwork!! :)
Message:
I honestly believe we've got our man, John. Thanks for this!
I'll email you over the weekend.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:56:32 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: MIKE FINCH/Palace of Piss
Message:
Could be possible remembering the wednesday night scientific satsangs I'm sure he was involved in at the Palace of Peace, what a laugh transcripts of those nights would be.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 22:03:35 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: wednesday nite SCIENTIFIC satsangs?!?
Message:
Yup, it sounds funny just thinking about it!
Thanks hamzen!
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 16:34:37 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Intellectual Satsang
Message:
Joey,

It was intellectual satsang, every Wednesday night, orgqnised by the Education Ashram, of which I was a member.

We did actually get some of them transcribed, but God knows where they are now.

Last I heard of Mike Finch, he was working for a company run by premies in Brighton. Mike Detmers got involved with them then they went bust.

Anth the Gossip

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:54:18 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Mark
Subject: What actually happened.
Message:
A Marx brother's movie it was!
We were the premie painting contractors from Hell!
Moreover we happened to pick on the most abjectly unfortunate family in Brighton on whom to visit our particular horror.
The lady in question had already suffered terrible misfortunes in her life. Her children had cancer, her husband had left, she was having dreadful financial problems and so on and so forth.

Anyway she duly accepted our offer to decorate the outside of her run-down property for the aforementioned 200 quid. Little did she know that we yet had designs on her interior decor. For the purposes of reaching the second floor windows we had procured a rather unstable (cheap) ladder. It was from the top of this that Mark, paint brush dripping, suffered the terror of being bombarded by deft football kicks from myself. I extracted some cruel pleasure from this torture.
Needless to say the Lady had gone out shopping for the morning, leaving us to our work.

Nigel Scott, a most affable lunatic, meanwhilst clumsily proceeded to undercoat the window frames. Not being very practical he managed to boot 5 Litres of white paint, with considerable force, from the window-sill, across the unfortunate childs bedroom. Splattering the thick white stuff all over her bedspread, the curtains, the carpets and toys. To compound the cataclysm he then marched downstairs to put the stained articles in the washing machine. Unfortunately he mananged to trudge white paint from the soles of his boots all the way down the stair carpet and across the hall into the kitchen.
That might have been an almost tolerable situation had not he over-filled the washing machine which duly -all of a sudden- decided to flood the kitchen with an expanding layer of soapy bubbles and white froth.

The Lady chose this perfect moment to make her return.
As I recall she omitted one very shrill, long scream and then in the ensuing ghastly silence, we made our single-filed exit.
Our natural reaction was to adjourn to the local tea-shop for satsang and coffee. I seem to remember that Mark kept his usual effervescent and philosophical demeanor. Nigel laughed nervously and we determined to face the music and go back-with a large bunch of flowers, as if to beg for forgiveness.

Remarkably, the Lady seemed almost blissful. I supposed that since she was so accustomed to disaster in her life she must have learned to be, perversely, almost at home in such dire circumstances. Anyway we gave her satsang of course and a jolly good time was had by all.
She poured her heart out to us and we listened to her every woe- we scrubbed the place up and I honestly think she was delighted with our company. We were certainly not your average workmen! Two misfit british oddballs and a crazy, spouting american.

You know, maybe I am being a bit of a negative bastard going on about my miserable ashram jobs. Some of them yielded classic farces, the amusement value of which I scarcely experience nowadays. Like the time I was painting some house and had to climb out of an upstairs window to paint a drain-pipe. The window was in the room of two very forward and gorgeous Swedish au-pair girls. I swear Maharaji put them there to test me. As I was climbing out of the window (on which she had purposefully hung her knickers) one of these scantily clad blonde babes simply uttered the words 'We like sex' with perfect porn movie drool. What a waste!! Ican hardly bear to remember that incident.
I suffered so much.!
Hey Anth-if you're listening-I did that job with your cousin Des Ginn. Love the guy, where is he now??

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:14:45 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Love these stories, Anon...they're classics!! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 03:36:31 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: An old premie not friend
Subject: The Final Cut
Message:
The final exit! I am so glad you moved. I now
have NO ties with this sagging boardwalk of a
community.

You could never
drive around here. How on earth are you going to get
around those freeways of 9 million people?
Oh I forgot. GRACE!!

I'll never have to
worry about running into your sad mean face, hating
everyone you see, never happy except when you are
plastered in front of that VCR or better yet shining
with love in front of the real life 'god' with
tears streaming down your face.
25 years of abuse are over. for both of us.
And still I wish you freedom. And me too.
Wonder who has a better chance?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:48:20 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: The Final Cut
Message:
Selene,
You can WRITE, girl. Great post.

P.S. This isn't the lipstick person by any chance?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:51:06 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Ms. K
Subject: The Final Cut
Message:
Yup
one thing I can thank this one for
my impetus for getting out of the cult!!

The ugly shit I saw isn't even publishible in
a jouneys entry. I am not kidding! illegal stuff
and all.

Bad scene.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 16:09:41 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: The Final Cut
Message:
Selene,
Come on then let's hear it here.
JB
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 05:01:28 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: The Final Cut
Message:
never happy except when you are plastered in front of that VCR is a powerful image - and also explains how the lipstick kisses got all over the videos.

Talk about 'noir'!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 05:03:37 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Ms. K
Subject: The Final Cut
Message:
Can you imagine how sick?
And how sick I was that I thought, what is wrong
with me, why cannot I feel this kind of love
and devotion?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 05:11:27 (GMT)
From: Ms. K
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: The Final Cut
Message:
Anyone who grew up with alcoholics or other substance abusers knows that they can feel plenty of so-called 'love and devotion' when using. Most of it is fueled by the booze or whatever, that's the problem (as I am sure you know very well).

Before you started posting here, I was clueless about some devotees of Maharaji being substance abusers. But it makes sense in an awful way.

Glad you got out, Selene! I mean it. It sounds terrible. And I really do hope you write your journey soon, because you've got a lot to say.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 05:15:37 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Ms. K
Subject: The Final Cut
Message:
And I really do hope you write your journey soon, because you've got a lot to say.

that's what scares me!

:) I have it all journaled in a strange disjointed story.
One of these days.... It will come out sonewhere.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:16:02 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: The first cut was the deepest ... Let it bleed?
Message:




The first cut was the deepest.




Let it bleed ...


(i.e. your Journey...)




(...get that poison out your system ...) ...

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:30:23 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: The first cut was the deepest ... Let it bleed?
Message:
The journey should be easy and seperate. I have NO idea why I
can't write one. Never could. You know how some people can't use
theirr real names and others freak at the thought of anyone knowing any personal details about them? I seem to have this block about a journey entry. Which makes no sense when I post this bizarre personal shit the way I do. who knows?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:49:11 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: The first cut was the deepest ... Let it bleed?
Message:
Maybe not Selene, I too have had the same problem.

Thinking about it all through threads gets a lot of it out, but the journey is a deep re-entry, and who wants to go THAT deep, and after decades there is almost TOO much material, fucking hell it's too much like inverse satsang, TOO serious, maybe you should do it as a complete spoof...lighten it up, in the end, it/he just deserve havingh the piss taken...

In the end it's just a new age soap-opera that deserves episodes, not a weighty tome?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 22:10:57 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: always can count on you ham
Message:
you are like my wacky alter ego. always.
I had thought of that. an out there spoof on all of it.
Even started doing that. And again today in my riff with Susan
about the mirros and rulers and the 'selected' few in front of
the Speaker - I thought of them in front of the awsome loud speakers pumping out some of your music while they did stange things with mirrors and all :)
Yes that is my journey anyway, always was so why NOT
write it as such ???
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:43:47 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I have NO idea why I can't write one-so DO! :) nt
Message:
'I have NO idea why I can't write one' - so DO! :) nt
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:55:07 (GMT)
From: did it again
Email: None
To: dont even answer that
Subject: because it's not going anywhere
Message:
drugs of course
look where I live!!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:22:30 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: you of course
Message:
Hi Selene.

Did you crushed with a cactus?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:24:59 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: you of course
Message:
Did I crush this person with a cactus?
I should have!!!!
WE did in the 70's crush a many peyote cacti
together and watch my toddlers play -
we had many a bond.
It's so sad SB.
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 14:40:30 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: crushed by a cactus
Message:
Oh God Selene--'crushing that person with a cactus' for some reason this cracked me up. This image of you getting fed up with a ridiculous self-serious premie and squashing her with a giant cactus just tickles me to no end.

Hope you do write your journey one day. In a sense you already have a la CORN. But there's more in you I'd wager, you really *can* write.

Helen

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 16:30:44 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: crushed by a cactus
Message:
There was a story in the AZ Daily Star about some
moron who was out in the desert shooting at Saguaros
and as he shot one up it fell over and crushed him dead
(they can get up to 20 or more feet tall)
I thought it was great.

I really like hamzens idea of writing a spoof journey. Have the truth in there but just 'take the piss out of it' as he said it.
Too funny.

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:47:13 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: crushed by a cactus? ... could this be similar?
Message:
- crushed by a cactus? ... could this be similar?

(from the 'Weekly World News', 9 Feb 1988)



'Professor Marvo, a magician in Argentina, came to a sticky end when one of his tricks was just too believable for his own good. Performing to a small crowd in a tavern in Azul, he climaxed his act by catching a bullet, fired by his assistant, in his teeth.

In reality the assistant fired a blank and the magician merely produced a bullet he had hidden in his mouth, but this subtlety was missed by Marco Asprella, a 48-year-old gold miner in the audience.

Asprella was so impressed by the trick that he whipped out his own .45 calibre handgun and yelling 'Catch this one Professor', fired it straight into Marvo's face, virtually severing his head from his body.

At the murder trial he made it clear that he didn't understand why Marvo hadn't been able to catch the bullet. The jury sympathised and acquitted him.

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 17:40:06 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: crushed by a cactus
Message:
Yes at some point the whole thing goes beyond 'lila' into 'theater of the absurd'. I know you can write it as a spoof, and that it would be funny but with dark textures. You really are a good writer, Selene.
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 18:00:53 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: crushed by a cactus
Message:
I'm insane and can write when I am insane
which is often I admit.
But you are a good writer when in more stable
conditions. I envy that.
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 20:59:22 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: like a cactus tree (OT)
Message:
Remember that Joni Mitchell song 'Cactus Tree' It breaks my heart just thinking about it.

I don't always feel like writing. I don't always feel inspired at all.

Writing the CORN was the most pleasurable writing experience I have ever engaged in because it was purely for the fun of it, no publication pressure. also it was anonymous so there wasn't that same pressure. SO you caught me at a good time!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:28:00 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: you of course
Message:
I imaging. You 'sound' mad and sad. Sorry. I just sent you mail.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 02:07:16 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: maharaji's similarity to another guru
Message:
I started reading a web page called EX-DEVOTEES SPEAK OUT which has statements from ex-devotees of Adi Da (aka Da, Da Free John, born Franklin Jones). It is from a web site called
The Knee of Daism ~Deconstructing Adi Da~. I see striking similarities between 'Maharaji' and 'Adi Da'. Also interesting is the interaction between da's devotees and the ex-devotees. Reminds me of this forum. Just some similarities between the gurus:
. failed mission
. rationalization of the gurus' crazy behavior. In m's camp it's called 'lila', in da's camp it's called a 'teaching demonstration'
. berating of devotees (supposedly for their own good)
. abusive behavior
. both think they are God
. crazy demands
. both isolate themselves from their followers

A statement from a da ex-devotee about what initially got them into it: 'I wanted to learn how to meditate.'

Another statement from a da ex:
'... a kind of twisted mentality which allows Da to be both spiritually developed and involved in 'teaching' on one hand, yet dangerously abusive on the other. When one's point of view becomes as complicated as Ken's is in order to preserve conflicting assumptions, it is time to reexamine the assumptions.'

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 22:01:34 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: G
Subject: An interesting experiment...
Message:
I have merely tweaked a couple of names in the following passage taken from the ex-DFJ site, and for my money - well, read on...

What should be clear to everyone is that no one in DLM (Now EV) is given the opportunity to 'cast the light' directly on Maharaji. Why is he so estranged and hidden from you, really? Apart from your child-like fantasies and subtle beliefs about 'who he is' and 'how he works', how much and how privately have you observed him and then tested your observations?

The fact is, apart from what you have read and are told, intermixed with a variety of contacts with Maharaji years ago, most of you know very little about your teacher. You have therefore been called to relate to only the most superficial imagery about who Maharaji is, and at the same time you have become steeped in an officially prescribed method for relating to him which permits only subservience and fawning devotion.

And those of you who have been close to him should ask yourselves to what degree you own hopes, needs, and self-generated projections and expectations, coupled with the mythology about how Maharaji's unconventional behavior has been designed to teach you, has colored your perceptions of him.

Ex-members know from their own experience that many of you are paying a heavy price in terms of emotional suppression, confusion, and self-delusion in order to maintain the false conclusion that you have actually been served by this 'crazy- wise' madness.

What do you think, premies? Does the cap fit?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 16:23:23 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: maharaji's similarity to a televangelist
Message:
I saw the end of an infomercial on TV this morning. It was this so-called 'Christian minister' Benny Hinn ranting . (funny how 'Benny Hinn' sounds like 'Benny Hill') He said that if you leave 'God' for a second, you will die. (the other guy repeats 'you will die'). He then says how he knows this, he had a dream in which 'God' told him 'If you leave me for a second, I will destroy you'. Benny also said 'And the safest place to be is with Jesus Christ'. Later on he says 'Don't miss my Monday program'. (otherwise you might die?)

Reminds me of the guy who said that he wanted to give 'Knowledge' back to 'Guru Maharaj Ji', who replied (paraphrased) 'Ok, but bring four strong men to carry the coffin'. Also reminds me of the 'rotten vegetable' satsang. Fear tactics.

Good ol' Benny also was demonstrating how your relationship to 'God' must be. He showed this by putting his arm around his wife ('sometimes it's like this'), then hugging her one way ('sometimes it's like this'), then giving her a big hug ('but sometimes it's got to be like this'). She seemed a bit freaked and disgusted by the whole thing, but was trying not to show it. She seemed to be going along with the whole thing, thinking 'Hey, he's bringing home the money, so...'. Of course, he was dressed verrrry nicely.

And at the end, guess what, trinket sales! Get yer videos here, 2 for a dolla. Learn about all 'Biblical Prophecies', how the anti-christ will come out of Syria. You know, with the Millennium, interest in prophecies is at an all time high! (so join the crowd!).

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 10:53:39 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: G
Subject: Would you say this was similar?
Message:
From the discussions over yonder:

What I'd like to ask ya, Jim, is at what point did you realize you had the right and the understanding to challenge the guru whom you had previously worshiped; and how did that come about?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 04:29:02 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Thanks
Message:
Thanks for the link, G. Really interesting stuff. Funny how few of those exes seem to reject spirituality or even the guru concept altogether compared to us. That show down between Muktananda and The Guru Formerly Known as Whatever-the-Fuck was great. Like a scene out of the Grifters.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 07:25:37 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks
Message:
Grifters was an awesome movie, has a lot to say
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 23:52:45 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: The Grifters - hi selene I'll answer you
Message:
I think what I liked about that movie:
raw and down and dirty as it was.
It showed up close and personal how vulnerable
and easy marks people can be.

The son, who was it? Matthew Broderick?

God my memory on these meds!

Angelica Huston's son in the movie....
He was playing small time not that well - and for the most part
people just played into his hands.

That was what I meant. He wan't a great grifter but he made money at it. It made me think. What easy marks people can
be.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 02:04:23 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Get the bastard
Message:
OK, so I don't write here much these days and feel very much removed from the ex-premie scene. Sorry if this may have hurt anyone's feelings at any time but I have some personal stuff which I'm still trying to get through. I don't want to be aloof but sometimes life just makes things like that. Life isn't always a bed of roses, is it.

Having read some of the posts here from Anon and Katie Darling (who is a darling) I think it's time we just went for the jugular and stopped Maharaji in his tracks here in the Western world.

Evil or not, he's a 24 carat bastard. If we gave him the kind of care and consideration which he's given to his devotees, then he'd have been hounded out of town years ago. He would have been shouted down at every single program he's tried to speak at. We would have bawled him out of town and he would not dare set foot in the West again.

If Maharaji considers such sincere people as Anon to be his enemy then I am Maharaji's worst nightmare come true! For I loath with venom, cruelty to children, cruelty to animals and cruelty to people who are gullable or vulnerable.

Just one thing. If Maharaji comes back to Britain, he's going to have a very warm and well publicised welcome. No, it won't be flowers thrown at his feet and teenage premies singing 'The Lord of the Universe' as he walks through Heathrow Airport this time. No, we're talking National Newspapers and police enquiries into child abuse and fraud.

We have a saying in Britain that what happens in America, happens here a few years later. This time it's going to be the other way round. Good luck people.

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Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000 at 05:46:30 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Get the bastard
Message:
Sir Dave,

Here is a quote that might clarify things for you.

Men reject their prophets and slay them, but they love their martyrs and honour those whom they have slain.

Dostoyevsky
The Brothers Karamazov

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 21:28:57 (GMT)
From: Saint Gisabir
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: The Tale of the Five Blind Masters
Message:
It is told that there were once five blind Masters who came together to discuss the question 'What is a devotee?' They argued long and discussed much but each blind Master was unable to concede the superiority of any other Master's definition; nor could they arrive at a consensus or compromise understanding of the devotee's nature. For one thing, not one of them had ever seen a devotee - although they each had more devotees than any other living perfect Master.

But as they wandered the forests in sacred discourse an accompanying servant alerted the blind Masters to the presence of a stranger on the path ahead, seated beneath a banyan tree. From his pose the servant deduced the stranger was about his devotional practices.

'Here is your chance to discover for yourselves the true qualities of the devotee, oh perfect ones', uttered the servant in some excitement.

'Who asked your opinion?' replied the first blind Master, brusquely. Then, to the other blind Masters he added: 'Here is our chance to discover for ourselves the true qualities of the devotee. Let us investigate…'

And so the five blind Masters approached the stranger, treading quietly so as not to disturb his meditations.

The first blind Master reached out his hands and placed them gently over the stranger's eyes which, with some satisfaction, he discovered were closed.

'Behold, the eyelids in repose…' whispered the first blind Master. '..to emulate, of course, the sightless eyes of the Master. His gaze is averted from the evils and temptations of this world as he contemplates only the inner light; a light that is brighter than one thousand suns. Brighter, indeed, than one thousand and sixty-three suns…'

('Bloody pedant', muttered the third Blind Master)

'This merging with light, my friends, is the defining quality of the devotee,' concluded the first blind Master.

But the second blind Master had placed a hand before the stranger's nose and sensed for himself the passage of air as he inhaled and exhaled. 'Behold how slowly, how serenely he breathes. Every breath a deeper thrust into the boundless waters of prana… That fundamental vibration; that Word of God. This experience, this union with the One is the very quintessence of devotion.'

The third blind Master did not touch the stranger's body, but instead cupped a hand to his own ear and listened. 'Can you hear it?' he asked. 'the low, poignant murmur of a silent prayer begging the Master for his immaculate Grace. This expression of deep, deep thirst comes only from those who deeply, deeply thirst…'

But the fourth blind Master placed his palm against the stranger's chest to feel his heartbeat.. 'Here my friends, is devotion. The devotee seeks not for himself the selfish pleasures of transcendance but instead desires only to forge an inner connection with his Master. A connection of the heart - Hey, I can feel something connecting… I think this might be one of mine...

'What a humbling thought…' he added, smugly.

The fifth blind Master, having a job to get in on the act, moved his hands lower down the stranger's body. Hastily bypassing the unmentionable regions beneath the loincloth, he came to the feet which the stranger had crossed before him as he sat in a half-lotus posture.

But as he took the stranger's right foot in his hand, the leg rose up suddenly and the stranger kicked the fifth blind Master sharply in the balls.

'Surprise, surprise!' said the ex-premie.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 12:05:19 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Saint Gisabir
Subject: Great...
Message:
Great Story mahatma ji.

When the 5th Masters hand moved down from the chest, I thought he was going to grab the devotees dick.

Anth, Who Needs Freud to Point Out the Penis, ... I mean Subtext?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:09:25 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Saint Gisabir
Subject: Too funny -- (but is that a threat?)
Message:
Aren't you pretty well coming right out and saying that the next time Maharaji pulls your foot you're going to kick him in the balls? But he's pulling your foot (along with everyone else's) all the time, isn't he? So, I don't know, Nigel. Better turn yourself in.
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 23:45:50 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Saint Gisabir
Subject: The Tale of the Five Blind Masters
Message:
All of them were wrong because a true devotee would be working earning the money to give to their master.

John the knows a devotee when he sees one.

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 23:43:01 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Saint Gisabir
Subject: Good one Nigel! Love it!! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:00:05 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Faster Posts
Message:
I finished the re-writes to allow the messages to load faster when you read in the non-frames version. You should see a big improvement.

Also fixed and tested the archiver. The last archive that the FA's sent me to store on the site had no index [neat!]. So I spent last Saturday reconstructing one from the posts. Don't want to have to do that again.

It occurred to me that people using Proxomitron (and particularly those using Roger's configuration) might experience problems after script revisions. I can't take that into account when I'm working on these scripts. If you're going to use that program (or any others like it) you had better become proficient at configuring it yourself.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 03:36:04 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: yes! very fast Posts (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 22:16:49 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Outstanding!
Message:
Much improvement, Brian. Thanks.
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 20:05:11 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Thanks honey! :) (nt)
Message:
gw5tr
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 18:53:54 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: SUPERB, Brian!
Message:
Brain: I am one of 'those' guys that happens to like the non-frames version..... THANKS, it did help considerably!
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:29:30 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Brian?
Message:
Can you please check your email and check the mess on the French forum? Everything's upside down !!!
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:54:53 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: PAS DE PANIQUE !!
Message:
Golly, JM. It's all in french! How can you tell? [snicker]

It's fixed now.

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:24:01 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Faster Posts
Message:
Ok I've had it G you and I have a nice relationship - PLS oh Pls would you tell me what (nt) and (ot) mean.This is the 3rd x I've asked here.
JB Thanks.
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:41:12 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: (nt) means 'no text in message', as to (ot)?
Message:
What does (ot) mean? I don't know. Can someone explain? Also abbreviations not listed below?

BTW = by the way

IMO = in my opinion
IMHO = in my humble opinion (an oxymoron)
IMNSHO = in my not so humble opinion (that's more like it)

TY = thank you (correct?)

ROFL = rolling on the floor laughing
LOL = laughing out loud (could also mean lots of luck)

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:34:54 (GMT)
From: Sister Perpetual Agony
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: OT
Message:
JB:

ot= off topic
nt= no text
btw= by the way
lol= laugh out loud
imo= in my opinion
imho = in my honest opinion

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:48:22 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Sister and G
Subject: OT / nt
Message:
Thank you both Soooo much. It explains so much.

Must not forget :

SOL: Shit out of luck

Thank you, thank you,

JB

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 18:12:44 (GMT)
From: and when someones says
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: Hey you FNG...
Message:
Fu..... new guy/gal. RTFM(read the fu..... manual)
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 18:44:25 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: and when someones says
Subject: Hey you FNG...
Message:
Oh, I thought it meant fungol! :)
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 19:12:56 (GMT)
From: king of URL?
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: @}---,--'---- (belated Valentine rose)
Message:
Hi Robyn!

As well as the basic abbreviations:

:-) Happy
:-( Sad
:-o Surprised
:-@ Screaming
:-I Indifferent
:-e Disappointed
>:-< Mad
:-D Laughing
;-) Wink

I've just this minute discovered a website with these … omigod, I gotta learn a new language here :-@





Jargon and Acronyms

*G*
grin

*H*
hug

*K*
kiss

*s*
smile

*S*
big smile

afk
Away From Keyboard

afv
Away From Vog

asap
As Soon As Possible

bbiab
Be Back In A Bit

bbl
Be Back Later

bbs
Be Back Soon

bf
Boyfriend

brb
Be Right Back

btw
By The Way

cu
See You

cul8r
See You Later

cya
See You

cz
because (cause)

fwiw
For What It's Worth

fyi
For You Information

gf
Girlfriend

gfn
Gone For Now

gg
Good Game

ggp
Gotta Go Pee

gl
Good Luck

gm
Good Match/Move

gmta
Great Minds Think Alike

gr
Good Roll (Backgammon)

h&k
Hug&Kiss

hiya
Hi You

ic
I See

imho
In My Humble Opinion

imnsho
In My Not So Humble Opinion

irl
In Real Life

lol
Laughing Out Loud

l8r
Later

np
No Problem

nr
Nice Roll (Backgammon)

oic
Oh! I See

otb
Over The Board

plz
Please

qt
Cutie

rofl
Rolling On the Floor Laughing

thx
Thanks

ttfn
Ta Ta For Now

ttyl
Talk To You Later

ty
Thank You

u2
You Too

w8
Wait

w8am
Wait A Moment

wb
Welcome Back

vnr
Very Nice Roll

y
Why

ya

You

yw
You're Welcome





Smiles
:)
normal
:-)

;)
wink
;-)

:o)
:D
very big smile or laugh

:(
frown

>:(
angry

%)
crazy

:&
tongue-tied

8)
:\
undecided

:O
shocked

:-@
screaming

:-P
sticking out tongue

o:-)
angelic

(::()::)
bandaide

:'(
crying

:*(
crying

((((name))))
cyber hug

\~/
full glass

\_/
glass (drink)

@[_]~~
mug of hot coffee or tea

@}---,--'----
rose
etc...

And there's more…!

AKA: Also Known As
FAQ: Frequently Asked Questions
FWIW: For What It's Worth
FYI: For Your Information
FUBAR: F#$%&@ Up Beyond All Recognition (or
repair)
IDK: I Don't Know
IMHO: In My Humble Opinion
IOW: In Other Words
IYKWIM: If You Know What I Mean
IYKWIMAITYD: If You Know What I Mean And I
Think You Do
LOL: Laughing Out Loud
OTOH: On The Other Hand
PITA: Pain In The @$$
ROTFL: Rolling On The Floor Laughing
RTFM: Read the $&@% Manual
SITD: Still In The Dark
SWAK: Sealed With A Kiss
SPAM: Stupid Person's AdvertiseMent
TIC: Tongue In Cheek
TPTB: The Powers That Be
TTFN: Ta Ta For Now
WRT: With Respect To
WYSIWYG: What You See Is What You Get

@}---,--'----

Byeee!

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 20:03:19 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: king of URL?
Subject: @}---,--'---- (belated Valentine rose)
Message:
Dear King,
Thanks, I have received that rose before. :) Oh my god there are to many of those things, like typing short hand!
Once Roger posted a list like that but about butts... (_|_) or (__|__) big butt. It was funny, I think I saved it someplace and if I knew who you were I'd send it to you. Your loss! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 20:36:17 (GMT)
From: king (little k) of URl
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Ah, my loss! :'( - but YOU gave that name! (nt)
Message:
Ah, my loss! :'( - but YOU gave that name! (nt)

You did, y'know.

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 21:27:49 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: king (little k) of URl
Subject: Ah, my loss! :'( - but YOU gave that name! (nt)
Message:
Shit king, now I do remember that but not sure who I said it to. I'll have my secretary look through all the old posts until it is found! Hahahahaha! I don't have a secretary really. :)
cqp or michael maybe
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 21:44:17 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: Ah, my loss! :'( - but YOU gave that name! (nt)
Message:
Sorry dear, a typo!
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 21:18:42 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: all
Subject: some more :-)s
Message:
}:-) Above in an updraft
:-s After a bizarre comment
:-* After eating something bitter
:-6 After eating something sour
*:o) And bozo the clown!
O :-) Angel (at heart, at least)
|-I Asleep
:-% Banker
:-) Basic smiley
:-} Beard
(:-) Big-face
:-)-8 Big girl
|-O Birth
:-1 Bland face
:-] Blockhead
:-( Boo hoo
:-X Bow tie
:-# Braces
%-6 Braindead
:^) Broken nose
:v) Broken nose, but it's the other way
:-E Bucktoothed vampire
:-c Bummed out smiley
C=:-) Chef
*:o) Clown
:-~) Cold
:-) Comedy
:-8( Condescending stare
:-t Cross smiley
:,( Crying
:'-( Crying too
0-) Cyclops (scuba diver?)
8-# Death
:-e Disappointed
:-} Ditto
,-) Ditto...but he's winking
:-( Drama
:*) Drunk
<:-I Dunce
(:I Egghead
:-#| Face with bushy mustache
>- Female
:-( Frowning
8-) Glasses
8:-) Glasses on forehead
:] Gleep...
:-) Ha ha
E-:-) Ham radio operator
:) Happy
:-| Have an ordinary day smiley
|-) Hee hee
:-> Hey hey
:-I Hmm
|-D Ho ho
+-:-) Holds religious office
B-) Horn-rims
=:-) Hosehead
[] Hugs
[] and :* Hugs and kisses
:-I Indifferent smilie
8 Infinity
:-* Just ate something sour
X-( Just died
:-> Just made a really devilish remark
:-7 Just made a wry statement
:-X Keeping lips sealed
:* Kisses
:-D Laughing
:-D Laughing (at you!)
:D Laughter
:v) Left-pointing nose smiley
:-b Left-pointing tongue smiley
(-: Left handed
:-j Left smiling smiley
:-/ Lefty undecided smiley
:-9 Licking his/her lips
8:-) Little girl
-< Mad
:- Male
3:[ Mean pet smilie
:> Midget smiley
:) Midget smilie
:< Midget unsmiley
:-{) Moustache
~~:-( Net.flame
:-0 No yelling! (quiet lab)
:-P Nyah nyah
:-=) Older smiley with mustache
+:-) Priest
@= Pro-nuclear
=:-) Punk-rocker
:[ Real downer
:-< Real sad smiley
:-C Really bummed
[:] Robot
:( Sad
,:-) Same thing...other side
:-@ Screaming
:-i Semi-smiley
:-o Singing national anthem
:-/ Skeptical
:-Q Smoker
|^o Snoring
:'-) So happy, s/he is crying
:-p Sticking its tongue out (at you!)
8-) Sunglasses
B:-) Sunglasses on head
:-o Surpise
8-| Suspense
8-) Swimmer
:-v Talking head smiley
:-& Tongue tied
:-O Uh oh
:-o Uh oh!
:-)~ User drools
*<:-) Wearing a santa claus hat
[:-) Wearing a walkman
:-# Wears braces
B-) Wears horn-rimmed glasses
:-{} Wears lipstick
::-) Wears normal glasses
:Q What?
;;-) Winking
{:-) With its hair parted in the middle
:^) With pointy nose (righty)
8 :-) Wizard
:-7 Wry
|-O Yawning/snoring
:O Yelling
|-P Yuk
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 21:03:09 (GMT)
From: (_I_)
Email: None
To: king (little k) of URl
Subject: Ah, my loss! :'( - but YOU gave that name! (nt)
Message:
Sorry just hadto try it Robyn, Thanks
JB , not really a (_!_)
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 21:33:59 (GMT)
From: emoticon / eroticon!
Email: None
To: (_I_)
Subject: Ah, my loss! :'( - but YOU gave that name!
Message:
(_.)(._)

) . (

\ , /

This could get interesting ...

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:05:09 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Messages load MUCH faster - thanks (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 11:47:44 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Sleeping With Extra-Terrestrials
Message:
Wendy Kaminer, the author who debunked 12 step programs some 10 years ago with her book, I'm Dysfunctional, You're Dysfunctional has got a new one out titled Sleeping with Extra-Terrestrials, The Rise Of Irrationalism And Perils Of Piety. It's a well written and entertaining appeal to critical thinking. It also has some interesting stats about faith and religion in America, as follows:

According to polls taken in the 1990s, almost all Americans (95 percent) profess belief in God. Only 4 percent identify themselves as atheists or agnostics. Fifty-nine percent say that religion is very important in their lives; 29 percent rate it fairly important. Seventy-six percent imagine God as a heavenly father who actually pays attention to their prayers. Forty-six percent believe in the biblical account of Creation. Nearly one-half (46 percent) of all Americans describe themselves as born-again. A majority of Americans (68 percent) belong to a church or synagogue, and 60 percent say they attend services regularly. An even larger majority expect their piety to pay off: three-quarters of Americans rate their chances of going to heaven as excellent or good; only 4 percent expect to go to hell

Here's more concerning the correlation between religious belief and acceptance of New Age thinking:

Adherrence to mainstream religions is supplemented by experimentation with an eclectic collection of New Age beliefs and practices. As religion scholar Robert Wuthnow has observed, 'one kind of belief in supernatural phenomena reinforces another'. Roughly half of all Catholics and Protestants surveyed by Gallup in 1990 believed in ESP; nearly as many believed in psychic healing. Fifty-three percent of Catholics and 40 percent of Protestants professed belief in UFOs, and about one-quarter put their faith in astrology. A 1996 Newsweek poll found that 41 percent of people surveyed believed in astrology, and 66 percent believed in ESP. Forty-nine percent believed that the government is concealing information confirming that UFOs are real or that aliens have visited the earth. Over 25 percent of people surveyed by Gallup in 1994 professed belief in reincarnation and the possibility of communicating with the dead. Twenty-five percent of people surveyed by Newsweek in 1996 said they believed in channelling

Here's the clinker:

Once I heard Shirley MacLaine explain the principles of reincarnation on the Phil Donahue show. 'Can you come back as a bird?' one woman asked. 'No,' Maclaine replied, secure in her convictions, 'you only come back as a higher life form.' No one asked her how she knew.

Indeed.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 05:19:13 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Extra-Terrestrials snore and wet the bed
Message:
Jerry:

There is nothing about the figures you quoted that point to anything more than a rather rambling theory about some vague relationship between a religious conviction and a propensity to believe in superstition. Even if you happen to believe that religion *is* superstition, the theory is incoherent in terms of what we're supposed to do about it, or what it means for society. Anyway, the theory could be tested in part by determining if the *intensity* of religious conviction or belief is correlated with superstition. My guess is that it is not. I've got plenty of data on my computer though, from Inglehart's World Values Surveys, (though I don't have the most recent study). I'm just too damned lazy to do the cross sums.

BTW, apart from the issue of whether or not religious convictions reflect reality there's also the issue of whether they have social benefit. Although the verdict is not unanimous, there is a near consensus among social scientists that it is not only beneficial, but that society could hardly function without it. Read James Buchanan's book on the Protestant Ethic and the relationship to saving and productivity. Buchanan is a libertarian, so he hardly has a dog in that fight. This is not a thin literature, limited to conjectures about 'social capital' and the like. It's much more extensive than that.

Strictly speaking, the concept that 'all men (humans) have an inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' (or in the Lockeian version to property) is an unsupported superstition. What's more, it is easily falsified since people have been alienated from all three more often than not.

--Scott

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 14:09:48 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: No relationship? I wonder
Message:
I don't think the relationship is so vague as you say, Scott. I wonder how many atheists believe in channelling or reincarnation. In my own life, I'm certain my acceptance of Maharaji was directly tied to my religious belief in a personal savior and that the primary purpose of my life was to love and serve God. How many atheists do you suppose think like that? How many do you think became premies? While Maharaji may have helped to create a few, I doubt he converted many, if any at all.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 05:33:47 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Maybe you're rushing them, Scott.
Message:
Had to say that.

I think religion brings more peace than war, but it obviously has done both. Still, I'm glad to see a church when walking in a strange neighborhood.

The issue of God's existence (or lack thereof) seems moot to me. The more real question is if life continues after death in some form.

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 13:50:03 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Extra-Terrestrial Ancestors
Message:
The theory that the origins of life on earth are not from this planet has gained more acceptability in the last year or two. The theory that some specific meteorites include bacteria fossils is still considered plausible.

Dr. Michael Roizen of the University of Chicago says membership in a church adds 1.9 years to your life.

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 14:15:22 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Extra-Terrestrial Ancestors
Message:
Hi Run,

Yes, I'm aware of the theory that microbes from comets and passing asteroids gave the evolution of life here on earth a boost, and how plausible that is. But that's a long way from believing that the government is hiding information about UFOs from the public, or even believing in them if the only evidence of their existence is, largely, hysterical accounts of having been abducted and probed by them. And bright lights in the sky, zooming this way and that, do not automatically make for visitors from another planet.

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 15:08:37 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Extra-Terrestrial Ancestors
Message:
The existence of 'intelligent' life would be quite plausible with possible proof of bacteria (and that's what it is- possible proof. Wouldn't evolution take it from there with the countless planets and stars that we know of?

Or would we be back in the same boat looking at our solar system as an only child instead of our planet (because the bacterium in question are postulated to be from Mars).

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 22:06:22 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Extra-Terrestrial Ancestors
Message:
I'm not saying that we're an only child, either as a planet or a solar system. There's good reason to believe there IS life elsewhere in the universe. I just don't think there's good reason to believe that it's visiting our planet, abducting us, and shoving probes up our asses.
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 13:42:24 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Jerry
Subject: Frightening
Message:
Thanks for the link, Jerry,

How weird to be part of the wayward minority. I know polls show lower figures in the UK for just about all of those measures, but if you look at the current state of our bookshops we can't be that far behind.

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 14:24:17 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Frightening
Message:
Nigel,

What Wendy Kaminer was trying to prove by these statistcs is how out of proportion the conservative right's claims are that the faithful are being besieged by non-believers. My only objection to using these statistics is that there's none from, say, fifty or sixty years ago when they may have even been higher. If that's the case, than the faithful, make that the RELIGIOUS are correct. They are being somewhat beseiged. But the FAITHFUL still far outnumber atheists and agnostics, and are in no way being beseiged as has been claimed.

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:43:22 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Frightening
Message:
Sorry, Jerry , Gonna start wearing my glasses more.
Again thought this had something to do w/ sex and ETs.

JB

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 22:13:27 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: Put on your glasses
Message:
Again thought this had something to do w/ sex and ETs.

Well, in a way it does. Wendy Kaminer got the title for her book by sympathizing with someone who claimed to have been abducted by ETs. Kaminer says she sometimes too thinks she's sleeping with an extra-terrestrial.

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 11:10:51 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Guru Louie
Message:
A friend of a friend has just sold up and left the sunny shores of Australia to join her guru in America. The guys name is Guru Louie; true. Anybody know of him?
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 22:24:32 (GMT)
From: John Gotti
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: This Thing of Ours
Message:
Guru Louie gotta be making a guest appearance on The Sopranos as the Capo of Capos...ain't that what a guru is?

Seriously, though, I'd love to hear about this dude. I gotta love the name alone, though not enough divest myself of all my worldly goods. Must be quite the studly man. Guru Louie for Prez.

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 04:43:56 (GMT)
From: Guru Louie
Email: None
To: John Gotti
Subject: Say harmony real slow.
Message:
Hey, are you lost and miserable souls making fun of me. I'm Louie the Guru; the best fucking guru of them all. If you are not enlightened in 2 years or $2oo,ooo (whichever comes first), I
Louie the guru, offer a complete, no strings refund of all moneys spent. Conditions apply.
You can be happy like me you know:)
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 07:53:42 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Learning more
Message:
Premie:I've found something that makes me such a loving,radiant person(lie). Its a very special meditation called Knowledge revealed by an enlightened master, Maharaji.
Friend:Well tell me more.
premie.Err..I can't really explain it (not permitted)but I'll take you to watch a video.
friend:.Where?At your place?
premie.No we have to drive 40miles to a hotel
(after the video)
Premie:What did you think?
Friend:Well, he says some nice stuff but I've got some questions.MayI ask you?
premie:Err...No I'm not qualified to answer(not permitted)Just watch more videos
Friend:But I thought you'd been doing this stuff for years and you can't answer questions?I have to drive 40 miles every Sunday to learn more?
premie:Yes.This shows you are a sincere seeker
friend:Well of course I'm a sincere seeker or I wouldn't have given up my Sunday on the beach to have come here.How does one get that knowledge then?
Premie:Keep on watching and watching videos then one day when Maharaji comes he might give it to you (providing you can afford
the travel and accomodation costs)
friend:Can't you just show me how to meditate?
Premie: No way,you see this is not just meditation. This is the ancient knowledge of all knowledge,only to be revealed by the perfect master.
friend:Fancy a beer?

premie:If you keep watching videos

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 14:55:28 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Learning more
Message:
Nice post, Haldor. That's a perfect description of G&K in the 90s, and why nobody wants to join. Well said.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:23:28 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: Haldor
Subject: Short post?
Message:
friend:Fancy a beer?

premie:If you keep watching videos

Was this post clipped off, or is this the actual end of the message?

I've seen something similar in the index and I'm trying to determine if there's a problem.

Please email me if it was shortened and if you can recall what the next word was.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 05:18:06 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Short post?
Message:
It was a mistake from my end Brian. thanks Hal.
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:30:43 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Haldor et al
Subject: Learning more
Message:
Perfect, exactly what happens - except I would have said 55 miles.

I tell people if they want to learn meditation and some techniques try Self-Realisation Fellowship (P. Yogananda).
Think that's ok? Got any input on that one. ???

JB

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 23:19:36 (GMT)
From: kmdarling
Email: darlingwave@aol.com
To: JB
Subject: Yoganand
Message:
I think that's a pretty good idea. The group has split into 2, and one is headed by a guy (Kriyanand I think) who has recently been sued for having sex with lots of female devotees. Maybe the other one would be better.

I have had some amazing experiences with Yoganand. If you're interested, let me know.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:25:24 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: kmdarling
Subject: Yogananda
Message:
Oh my God,
I can't wait. I love anything about P.Y.
My only 'story' is I met two people who actually had met him when they were kids. The man just remembered that he was so gentle and with his long hair was so much like a women. Probably a common impression to a child.
The woman, who to me was a very beautiful woman in aand out, just
cried when I was giving Satsang once in like 1973 or something and talked about P.Y. in my satsong. She just cried about it after too. He had really touched her.
TY, kmd

JB

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 12:33:24 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Learning more
Message:
Follow that line of thought, Haldor. Dare to think about it. Good luck.
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 08:53:04 (GMT)
From: Fred
Email: None
To: Haldor
Subject: Learning more
Message:
Frightening how accurate that is. Makes me wonder how Premie's can possibly make new friends -- at least at any depth. Seems to me to also show how its so about just using. M using premie's for his needs. Premie's using their 'friends' for their needs which are to fuel M's needs.
At least one can take the good away -- meditation, a little perspective. 'Don't follow leaders, think for yourself.'
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 14:37:17 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Fred
Subject: Learning more
Message:
I think in the last 15 years as a premie I only told two people about knowledge and Maharaji. Both times were in pubs when my judgement had been impaired by alcohol:-) I guess I wasn't a very good premie!

John.

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 15:27:16 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: You were a good premie. You've got cokesang
Message:
from the Lard.

Nothing surprising he's not more efficient.

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 14:52:01 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Beersang- aka Drunksang
Message:
Ah yes, I remember it well. That was the best way to leave no doubt for room in your mind. I was always surprised that the poor person at the bar whom I was trying to recruit into the cult never said, 'If this guru and his knowledge are so great, why must you alter your consciousness with beer?'
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 04:00:35 (GMT)
From: mantis
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Would you perhaps enjoy a good discourse?
Message:
Try this:
meditation?

It covers many aspects of meditation from many different traditions.

One tidbit there refers to guru worship as a mistake.

There is a wealth of excellent information for all of you intellectual ex-premies. Premies will no doubt freak. Where, after all, would they be without thier guru?

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Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 18:45:57 (GMT)
From: Jack
Email: None
To: mantis
Subject: Would you perhaps enjoy a good discourse?
Message:
I enjoyed the discourse,
Thanks,
Jack
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 18:01:05 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: mantis
Subject: More mumbo jumbo
Message:
Why do people want to add a load of mumbo jumbo to something as simple and basic as breath meditation? Perhaps they want to make it appear more than it is.

I read on the forum some time ago a very clear and succinct description and explanation of breath meditation, written by a non Buddist or anything ist. (I think it's on Jean-Michel's site now) Take away the crap that goes with all these religions such as Hinduism and Buddism and we see that all these isms are just complicated and nonsensical, medieval add-ons to some basic, normal experiences which anyone can have, without any religious doctrine or false expectations.

I think it's time that meditation came out of the Eastern Philosophy arena. It has nothing to do with all of that and more to do with psychology and psysiology.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:35:05 (GMT)
From: mantis
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: More mumbo jumbo - I agree with you that there is
Message:
a tremendous amount of spiritualized crap surrounding meditation. The whole notion of divinity and so on does gall me as it does the person for whom I am but a poor alter ego!

What I did find interesting about that site were the different approaches to meditation. For example, the Japanese using meditation to make thier soldiers more heartless and efficient killers! :-[ Also, the different effects that different styles of meditation can have on a person's thinking and emotions were interesting. Again, I think that is an interesting site - just don't need all of the religious stuff.

I am glad that Haldor got something out of the site. There is much more under heaven and earth than is contained in our philosophies! My thoughts and love and support to you, Haldor for embarking on a new life of freedom. Just don't get too giddy right away! ;-) Freedom is intoxicating don't you know!

Also, Joey is probably correct. Meditation may not be good for everybody. You can awaken some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can't awaken all of the people all of the time. Whatever that means and my apologies to A. Lincoln!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:39:29 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: mantis
Subject: One man's wine...
Message:
Also, Joey is probably correct. Meditation may not be good for everybody. You can awaken some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can't awaken all of the people all of the time. Whatever that means and my apologies to A. Lincoln!

Implicit in what you have to say here, is that those who are unable to be 'awakened' by meditation as you put it, are somehow deficient, or lacking in something.

I don't see it that way at all. For me, its more a case of one man's wine, being another man's poison.

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 01:17:44 (GMT)
From: mantis
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: One man's wine...
Message:
Are you implying that some can drink poison and some cannot? :-)
Well, it's true! Just had to look at my alcoholic step uncle to see that. Nah, I wasn't trying to imply anything, not really. Besides, meditation isn't needed for awakening.

An old monk was passing by when he spotted a young monk meditating. The old monk asked the young one why he was meditating. The youngster said that he was meditating to become an awakened buddha.

The older monk picked up a stone slab and started to polish it. The younger one asked him why he was polishing the stone slab. The old monk replied that he was going to make a mirror. The young monk said that no amount of polishing would make the stone a mirror.

Just so replied the older monk. And no amount of meditating will make one an awkened buddha.

So, am I implying anything here? Nah, it's just an illustration. Perhaps awakening and enlightenment have little if anything to do with meditation!

What do you think? :-) Is there anything to it?

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 03:46:16 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: mantis
Subject: You know mantis, for a predatory insect....
Message:
What do I think? I think you're doing some pretty fancy skating.

You DID implicitly equate meditation with awakening in your prior post, and now you're coming up with something totally different. Then again, you may have just been having fun, and that's kewl too.

But hey, I really like your skating style...especially for a predatory insect like yourself, it's quite impressive! :::))

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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 07:51:55 (GMT)
From: mantis
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: just move a little closer, Jerry....
Message:
Yes, if there is such an event as awakening, what would it be? Maybe the ultimate mind fuck? Tag you're it! There is no god in heaven, no supreme benevolent being, no devil, no angels, just us? Whoops. Maybe the ultimate release, what?

The 'New Thought' churches believe that each one of us six billion people on this planet are nothing more or less than an expression of god. Interesting thought that, what?

Buddha said that there is nothing to realize, what?

I say, in heaven there is no beer, that is why we drink it here!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:00:47 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: and not only that, Sir D, but...
Message:
I think it's time that meditation came out of the Eastern Philosophy arena. It has nothing to do with all of that and more to do with psychology and psysiology.

Not only that Sir D...it may not even be all that great for alot of people. I've recently been informed of a study thats been published documenting how a significant number of long term meditators of the TM technique have developed anxiety symptoms. Needless to say, I'll be on the look out for this study, so that we can have a look at it on these pages.

But in the meantime I believe its safe to say...meditation may NOT be for everyone!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:25:22 (GMT)
From: Mr D
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: and not only that, Sir D, but...
Message:
But were they anxious to begin with and did the anxiety symptoms only show up when they were tested? TM may well attract people who have anxiety symptoms, just as any other cult.

Knowing what TMers do, i.e. repeat a word over and over in their mind, I wouldn't be surprised if it did some harm though.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:40:59 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Mr D
Subject: and not only that, Sir D, but...
Message:
Good question Sir D.
Since, I've only heard of this study and not really read it for myself, I'd rather wait till I can find it and bring it over here.
We'll discover the answer together.
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 06:08:30 (GMT)
From: Haldor
Email: None
To: mantis
Subject: Would you perhaps enjoy a good discourse?
Message:
Wow I'm glad I went offline to read all that stuff on meditation!I have only recently decided not to be affiliated with M anymore yet I do have a liking for sitting quietly and feeling some peace.I have never liked the all fingers and thumbs approach of the so called knowledge techniques. Yesterday I lay down in the afternoon (we have siestas here in Portugal)and tried a technique Rumi liked. It invoves on the inbreath inwardly feeling YA and on the outbreath HU.It felt very energising and joyful.Yahoo I feel good.I'D LIKE TO THANK ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT.Ifelt a part of the human race and more loving and accepting of everyone than I have for ages when I left knowledge. M is propogating division by making out that Knowledge is unique.A toast ladies and gentleman, to the end of all cults and religions and the free thinking ,inclusive doctrine of err....We're all in the same boat? p.s I really like you guys now that I'm not trying to defend M against your questions. Hal
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 03:43:21 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: OK, LET'S RUMBLE!!
Message:
Just snatched, from the Leo J Ryan Foundation site!

**************************

What is the Difference Between Cults and Religions?

By Rev. Dr. Dan Feaster

A religion is a belief in the divine or a transcendent reality. It includes service or adoration of God or gods as expressed in forms of worship. Major religions hold a belief in a supreme power, have holy writings, holy places, important people, symbols, place of worship, liturgy or form of worship, and belief and practice in the golden rule. Religions generally have official doctrines which explain their practices and beliefs. Religions can be healthy or unhealthy depending upon the way they treat their followers. Within religious groups there are extremes which go beyond the normal teaching and policies of healthy mainstream religions, these could be classified as religious cults.
A cult is an extreme group or movement that shows excessive dedication to a person or cause. Cults often use various thought reform means to control or persuade members to accept the group’s beliefs and practices. Individuals within these groups are exploited and develop an extreme psychological dependency upon the group. A religious understanding of a cult would include a group that claims to be part of a recognized mainstream religious group but has practices or beliefs that are not compatible or go way beyond the accepted belief or practice of the recognized religion. These groups practice deception by claiming to be a mainstream religion and by exploiting individuals through their practices. Cults can be religious or non-religious. For example cults can also be classified in terms of self-help or psychotherapy, or political in nature.
The following are some comparisons between a healthy religious group and a cult.
· Healthy religions respect individual’s rights and freedom. Cults enforce compliance.
· Conversion to religions involves unfolding of internal processes. Cultic conversion involves an unaware surrender to external forces that don’t care for individual personal identity.
· Religions encourage people to think carefully before making a commitment. Cults encourage quick decisions with little information.
· Religions encourage questions and critical thinking. Cults discourage questions and critical thinking.
· Religions are clear about their beliefs. Cults have secret beliefs known to only those deeply involved.
· Religions have clear expectations about membership. Cults tend to be unclear initially about membership expectations.
· Religions encourage participation. Cults often force participation.
· Religions value and support the family. Cults often view the family as an enemy to be conquered.
· Religions allow members to leave without repercussion. Cults threaten, coerce, and frighten members to not leave.
· Religions encourage psychospiritual integration. Cults split the self between a good self and a bad self.· Religions attempt to help individuals meet their spiritual needs. Cults exploit spiritual needs and seek to use these needs to control the individual.
· Religions recognize that individuals are responsible to God for their life. Cults stress the individual's responsibility to leaders.
· Religions may offer a confidential confession of sins for the purpose of promoting healing, and moral development. Cults may require a confession of sins and use it to shame and control members.
· Religions practice truthfulness and integrity in practices. Cults often encourage lies and deception to accomplish their goals.
· Religions generally hold doctrines that are verifiable by others outside the group that agrees and is consistent with history. Cults claim their doctrines are infallible and can’t be verified by others outside of the group.
· If a Christian group, it holds to teaching passed down over centuries and follows the basic mainstream beliefs. If a Christian cult group it claims to have rediscovered or restored a new truth.
· Religions encourage members to be involved and contribute to society. Cults often encourage members to be separate from society.
· Religions view money as a means, subject to ethical guidelines. Cults view money as an end, not subject to ethical guidelines.
· Religions respond to critics respectfully. Cults often intimidate critics with physical or legal threats.
· Religions often have formally trained clergy, priest, or rabbis Cults often do not have formally trained religious leaders.
· Religions require religious leaders to follow a standard of ethics. Cults do not require religious leaders to follow ethical guidelines.
· Religions view sex between clergy and the faithful as unethical. Cults may subject members to sexual abuse by leaders.
· Religions require and seek accountability of religious leaders. Cult leaders have no accountability.
· Religions understand the world to be complex with no simple answers. Cults often offer simplistic answers to complex issues.
It is possible for cults to be religious or non-religious in nature. Cults unlike healthy religions do not practice the same standards. Some religions that deviate and become extreme can take on the classification of cults. There is, however, clear distinctions between healthy religions and cult groups.
For more information or to participate in the ongoing debate on what makes a cult different from a religion, contact CULTinfo at 203-366-5500 or email us at: staff@cultinfo.org

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 04:22:05 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: heller@bc1.com
To: Joey
Subject: That's a line in the sand
Message:
Joey,

If you really wanted to separate religions and cults by any criteria, you're going to find so many counter-examples of this category, that category. Then you get into the whole confusing matrix of voluntary personal restrictions, and forced personal restrictions, then forced voluntary restrictions.

It's all bullshit.

I met this French Canadian guy a few years ago who told me what it was like growing up in rural, catholic Quebec in the fifties. They were not allowed to hang out in two's because the 'devil' (mind?) might enter the conversation. You could hang with two other kids or more or by yourself. Cult? I'd say so.

But they're all like that. And, frankly, if a cult can water down into a religion, I'm sorry to say I think that m's cult could make an excellent argument that it's done just that. But I'm not willing to give it that. Are you?

Like Mormon's? Why should a cult get some sort of prize just because it's got staying power?

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 04:33:43 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: That's a line in the sand
Message:
The ONLY thing I can see that could be a criteria
of serperation is if you unable to talk to your
friends coworkers or family about your involvement.
If it is so different or out of the mainstream that
you know that no one will 'get ' it or understand
this new thing you are involved in. That should
be a warning sign. These days though even that is
hard to draw a line on. But I think it's a start.
Even in my crazy work place I can't see myself honestly
and openly saying I am into this man who teaches meditaion techinques. And taking them to videos. With the
people in my community. And all. NO way. How
about that for criteria. Could you guys take someone
from your family or work place to an 'introductory'
whatever it is these days and take it to the next
and next step and face the gossip ? I couldn't.
vs. taking someone to church or asking them -
that would be at least shrugged off or tolerated
even Mormons (at least here)
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:46:00 (GMT)
From: Special Agent
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Did someome just say 'Mormons' - Check this out.
Message:
http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no81.htm
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:52:07 (GMT)
From: Special Agent
Email: None
To: Special Agent
Subject: Did someome just say 'Mormons' and here's another.
Message:
THE MORMONS
AND THE
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
ARE THE SAME ORGANISATION
by David Icke

It's amazing how everything fits together in the world of the
Illuminati if you are prepared to dig deep enough.

The people and organisations who attack and abuse each other in
public, or appear to be in competition, turn out over and over
to be different masks on the same face. Take the Mormons and the
Jehovah's Witnesses (if we must).

We are told they are different organisations which stand for
different 'beliefs' and the followers of both would be aghast at
the thought that they could be connected in any way. But then
the mass of unthinking followers in any religion are merely the
fodder and the screen behind which the real business goes on.

The
founders of both 'faiths', the Mormons and JWs, were of the
Illuminati bloodline. Charles Taze Russell, who founded the
Watchtower Society (JWs), was of the Illuminati Russell
bloodline, which also founded the infamous Skull and Bones
Society at Yale University. Charles Taze Russell was a Satanist,
a paedophile according to his wife, and a friend of the
Rothschilds. Indeed it was the Rothschilds who funded the
Jehovah's Witness operation into being, along with other
Illuminati bankers, through 'contributions' by organisations
like the Rothschild-controlled B'nai B'rith. This was proved in
a court of law in 1922. One of the key people involved in this
was Frank Goldman who later became President of B'nai B'rith.
Why would an organisation set up (in theory) to help Jewish
people and promote the Jewish faith, be funding into existence
the Jehovah's Witnesses?? I think the name Rothschild answers
the question. Russell was also a high degree Freemason and
Knights Templar. He promoted Zionism, another Rothschild
creation (see Was Hitler a Rothschild), on behalf of his friends
and backers.

Joseph Smith, along with
Hiram Smith and Brigham Young, were the key figures behind the
creation of the Mormon religion. They were of the elite of the
elite Illuminati bloodline, the Merovingian or 'Holy Grail'
line, and were all high degree Freemasons. They were also
Satanists and formed their 'church' as a front for Satanic
activity which very much still goes on today. Why wouldn't it,
that is what it is there for. The Mormon empire was funded into
existence by the Rothschilds through their Kuhn, Loeb, bank
which also funded the Russian Revolution and Adolf Hitler, and
yet again B'nai Brith, the Rothschild intelligence arm and
defamer of genuine researchers, was involved.

Notice any
similarities between the last two paragraphs??

Again the followers of these mind control cults would be shocked
to think that the upper levels of these 'religions' would engage
in Satanic activity and human sacrifice of children, but it is
about time they knew.

Russell's family was formerly known as Roessel and went to
Scotland from Germany. Of course, Germany is a massive occult
centre, from which the Rothschilds emerged, and Scotland is one
of the key areas of the world for Illuminati bloodlines. From
the start, Charles Taze Russell used his new Watchtower Society,
based at Bethel, Brooklyn, New York, as a front for black magic,
or Enochian magic as his brand of Satanism was called. He put
the flying Sun disk on the front of his books, an ancient
Illuminati symbol going back to Egypt and Babylon. The
Watchtower magazine has always been a mass of subliminal and
less subliminal occult symbolism and the very name, Watchtower,
is part of Illuminati and Freemasonic legend and code. To them
watchtowers are areas of the 'magical universe'. The unseen
realms. Russell was buried under a pyramid in the United States
after being ritually killed on Halloween 1917. These leading
Satanists of the Illuminati are ritually killed when their time
comes in line with their obsession with ritual. To them,
everything is ritual. Again and again the Jehovah's Witness
church is named by survivors of trauma-based mind control as
being involved in these unspeakable mind control projects.

The Mormons were also created as a front for Satanism and, like
the Watchtower Society, Enochian magic.When I spoke in Salt Lake
City near to the Mormon Temple, I came across the fascinating
book by William J. Schnoebelen called Mormonism's Temple of
Doom. Schnoebelen was initiated into the Wicca religion, then
into Freemasonry, before going through the Mormon initiation in
the Salt Lake temple. He shows in great detail that all three
initiations were the same. The same oaths, secret handshakes,
and garb. Of course they are. We are looking at one face here
hidden by many masks. The Salt Lake temple is covered with
Illuminati symbols, like the All Seeing Eye, and it is built
with granite, a rock which has been used throughout the ages for
temples on earth power centres and for esoteric initiation. The
Mormons also use the bee symbol, a classic symbol of the
Merovingian bloodine which people like the author, Sir Laurence
Gardner, want to kid us goes back to 'Jesus' when in fact it is
the 'Holy Grail' bloodline of the Illuminati, the 'purest'
reptilian line. Joseph Smith carried a dove medallion given to
him by an English masonic lodge. The dove is Illuminati
symbolism for Queen Semiramis, the female deity in their
Babylonian trinity. The Mormon Church, like the Watchtower
Society, is also a front for trauma-based mind control. Many
survivors have told of their horrific torture in Salt Lake City
in Mormon buildings and centres. The Mormon genealogy operation
is also a front behind which the Illuminati keep track of the
reptilian bloodline, who has it to a 'pure' enough level and who
has not.

You won't be surprised to know, therefore, that the Mormons and
the Jehovah's Witnesses are the same organisation at the top
level where the Elders of the Mormons and the leaders of the
Watchtower Society operate a very different agenda to the one
their followers believe. But what chance have you got of knowing
what is happening within your 'church' when you refuse to think
or question? 'Have faith', the mantra of these religious con-men
through the ages, really means 'Don't think and don't question.'
I was taken around the Mormon temple site (not the temple which
is only for initiates) by two lovely girls from Thailand and
Hong Kong. They had worked their asses off for years to pay
their own fare to America and to pay for their own accommodation
and living expenses for the privilege of serving this
unbelievably wealthy organisation, as 'guides' (recruiters) for
the faith. On the way round, I asked them what they thought the
significance was of the founders of the Mormon church all being
high degree Freemasons. They looked at each other for a moment
in bewilderment and then one said: 'What's Freemasonry?'

And a few can't control the world??

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 20:08:13 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Special Agent
Subject: Don't be naive
Message:
Everything David Icke says is wrong. Everything. His facts are wrong and what he does with them ...... oy veh!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:09:47 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: David Icke
Message:
How come you guys know this nutter so well? He was a sports presenter in the UK before joining the Green party, and then he came out with all this weird spiritual crap. He no longer gets any sort of audience here as far as I can tell.

Johh.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:39:30 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: All my friends are cult leaders
Message:
John,

I jsut stumbled upon him when these friends I was talking about heard of him from some other guy. That last guy's made a lot of money doing some sort of off-shore banking shit and ties up his wacko Icke beliefs with his see-I-must-be-doing-something-right-look-at-all-my-money! shtick.

But I nailed him.

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 23:09:11 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, did I hear you say 'naive' ?
Message:
Maybe I'm being a little hypersensitive here...heck I'd welcome your feedback on that point...but I just can't help but feel that our visitor in this instance is more of a 'Special Anti-Semite' than 'A Special Agent'! That he posted deliberately with the intent of getting a rise out of the guy who started the lead post in this thread.
Whatever the case may be, I will agree with you on your final point. 'Oy veh!' is right on.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 00:09:03 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Joey, you did, you did
Message:
Joey,

This Icke guy is a carrier for a virulent strain of anti-semitism indeed. He's a complete crackpot who we've discussed here before. He mives up a lot of half-truths, dumb myths and arcane nonsense into a toxic tonic of mind-numbing conspiracy shit, all of which boils down to ugly Protocols of Zion jewish world-domination tripe, at one level anyway (you never know with these guys where the bottom is). He is an anti-semite.

Roger, by the way, isn't. I followed that thread over on AG -- the little joke Roger was responding to and all that. I know Roger. Roger's a freind of mine. I talked with Roger about that. First of all, even before I talked to him I never for a second construed his comments as anti anything. Roger confirmed all that. So there you go. I'll give you one David Icke but you have to give back one Roger Drek. :)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 00:30:02 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, I did WHAT??
Message:
Jim,

Roger wasn't on my mind in directing my post to you. And while I thank you for the background info on David Icke, I really didn't have much of a problem figuring out the kinda guy he is.

I was wondering about the poster 'Special Agent' and his/her motivation in posting that crap on this page. (Now don't tell me that was Roger!)

Now you know me....I'll give you whatever you want. I'd even let you have my car...but the lease is about to expire:::)))

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 00:50:10 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maybe he's like my friends
Message:
Joey,

I know a few guys who got sucked into this Icke shit. He just spins and spins and spins and unless you're skeptical by nature or well-grounded in history it's hard to see exactly where he's nuts. Mind you, he is. A careful look at any of his shit shows how poorly reasoned it all is. I'ts a joke.

When Icked was here doing a seminar on Vanoucer Island a friend and I called him when we were drunk in the middle of the night and gave him one hell of a time. I'm laughing now just trying to remember what we said. I can't but it was funny.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 01:10:01 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Maybe he's like my friends
Message:
When Icked was here doing a seminar on Vanoucer Island a friend and I called him when we were drunk in the middle of the night and gave him one hell of a time. I'm laughing now just trying to remember what we said. I can't but it was funny.

Wish I could have been there! Really! I'm chuckling just thinking about it!::))

Got your point though how some well meaning people could get sucked into his spin. That,btw, DOESN'T give me such a chuckle...but heck, who ever said life was a constant laugh-a-thon?!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 00:35:18 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: OOOps!
Message:
Sorry, I must be thinking too much Jim. I even accidently signed HIS name on the post quoted in this one.
The post quoted here was from me, Joey, to Jim
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 19:14:56 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Special Agent
Subject: Puhleeze!!! NT
Message:
Sorry, crazy person, no text.
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 20:12:34 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: Couldn't have said it better, Michael! (nt)
Message:
What a yutz!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 03:53:35 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Thanks Mike
Message:
Starting shit when I dont' even want to!
the corporate guru singled me out as an initaiator
integrator. I turned down the role. hear that???
I turned it down. Thank you very much. (hey Mike it almost
sort kind of looks like might be rain?) naw...
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:06:24 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Huh?
Message:
Selene? Starting stuff? I think I missed this one.

Rain???? Well, we got a couple-o-drops here, but not much. Almost looked like it was going to try all day long. Man, this has been a long, dry stretch.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:18:53 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: nothin'
Message:
I actually went out and bought a humidifyer.
the 'starting something' was my lame attempt at
a joke. I meant here I was starting smething w/o even
meaning to, once again, what with mentioning Mormons.
Thaaaaaaat's all. :)
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:50:14 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I'm such a moron, sorry!
Message:
Selene: I should have KNOWN! There 'I' go and ruin a perfect opportunity for a great series of jokes...... darn it! he he he :-)

Yeah, the low humidity is driving my cat nuts. She's a long hair and everytime she moves (at night) she's like a great night light..... I kid you not, the static electricity lights her right up. We don't even have to wonder if she's in the room.... :-0. As a matter of fact, it's actually PAINFUL when I take off one of my pile-cotton shirts..... They zap me pretty good every single day. I like them, so I put up with it..... but OWWWWWWW! I like to refer to it as 'personal lightning!' Now, if we could just harness all that energy..... he he he :-)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:14:33 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: static electricity
Message:
I won't let my husband kiss me unless we touch each other first.
Nothing like getting sparked on the lips! I mean the term 'sparks flying' has new meaning in AZ in a dry winter doesn't it?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:35:49 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: THAT explains it!
Message:
Selene: did you see FOX's expose on why there are so many divorces here in AZ? NOW, we have the TRUE answer! All that talk about, 'it was soooooo electric,' was just static electricity and when they find that out....... oh, well! he he he :-)

BTW, YOU are absolutely correct..... my wife ALWAYS touches my face with her hand FIRST! We've kissed a couple of times without doing that and the sparks were visible in broad daylight (and a quite audible 'snap,' too. Doesn't qualify as a little 'zap,' IMHO)! Of course, YOU already know that...... he he he :-) Yes, this place can be quite an adventure..... Lightning beyond belief in the summer and 'static' beyond belief in the winter!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:48:03 (GMT)
From: vampyre selene
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Divorce Rate In AZ
Message:
I didn't see the FOX report on divorce rate in AZ but if I
had to take a guess it would be the results of being cooped up in the house for so many months during the long hot summer.
I mean from the beg. of May to mid Oct. the choices where I am are get in the care face many miles of road rage to get to the mountains, and you really do need at least a weekend.

After a while you get the northwest version of the rainy season's cabin fever with a twist. That hot glare HURTS when you go outside.

I am a very solitary person and I have at times spent the whole day in my room with the curtains drawn.

selene - vampire in the summer

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 04:04:39 (GMT)
From: mantis
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: yeah, so? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 18:45:38 (GMT)
From: Christina
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Deputy Dog you rule, come on back! (NT)
Message:
What happened to Deputy Dog?
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Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 15:38:24 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Christina
Subject: Thanks Christina!
Message:
Christina,

Thanks for the compliment. I'm not too sure why you think I 'rule.' Perhaps it's because we are free spirits! You can be independent and still be a premie. Comparing yourself with others to determine how you should live your own life is not for us.

You gotta be independent and non-conformist if that's how you feel. As said earlier, 'Mediocrity finds safety in standardization.' Look inward rather than how you measure up or conform to the other person. Then take what you like and leave the rest.

We can march to the beat of a different drummer and still be 'lovers of truth.' As Frederich Nietzsche said,

This is my way . . .
What is your way?
The way doesn't exist.

Keep on keeping on, you sweet lady.

Dep

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Date: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 22:58:04 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Christina
Subject: Christina come on back!
Message:
Christina,

Never mind the dog (he said he was leaving anyway) but tell us something from your own fertile mind!

John

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Date: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 23:10:42 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Christina come on back!
Message:
JHB how does one know if a mind is fertile?
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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 00:44:49 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Fertility
Message:
Selene,

It's easy - for instance, I can tell from here that your mind is seriously fertile. In fact, if you put your mind anywhere near a stimulus, mental offspring is sure to spring forth.

John.

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Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 03:06:06 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Fertility
Message:
Ain't that the unfortunate truth?
:)
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