Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Mon, May 08, 2000 at 09:27:05 (GMT)
From: Apr 28, 2000 To: May 07, 2000 Page: 2 Of: 5


Gerry the straight guy -:- Sound Familiar ? And guess who 'David' is -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 19:36:32 (GMT)
__ bb -:- Sound Familiar ? And guess who 'David' is -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 01:34:38 (GMT)
__ Ajax -:- David Lane? -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 19:47:34 (GMT)
__ __ ET -:- Sai Baba ex site -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 02:22:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- No, not David Lane...and bill -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 02:40:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Contest is over, David is... -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 15:13:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Ajax -:- Who's David Icke? (nt) -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 18:32:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Jim's favorite author... -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 18:56:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yeah, sure you did, Ger. Sure you did -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 20:57:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Yeah, sure you did, Ger. Sure you did -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 01:31:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- Chomsky -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:37:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Chomsky -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 13:11:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- Chomsky -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:41:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Chomsky -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:59:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- Chomsky Chomsky Chomsky Chomsky -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:23:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You're a Chomsky fan? What a surprise -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:06:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Surprise? Why? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:54:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Surprise? Why? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:18:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Surprise? Why? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:11:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Surprise? Why? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:14:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Surprise? Why? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:17:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gerry -:- Wanna talk to Patty? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:41:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Stonor are you PC'ing Me? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:53:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Stonor are you PC'ing Me? (Not) -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:12:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Okay, this is .... interesting -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:20:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gerry -:- Huh? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:21:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Good answer, Ger -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:11:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:25:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hey maybe I'm part of the conspiracy too! -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:42:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Fuck you Heller, you rotten, LYING piece of shit -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:33:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Think about what? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:38:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ rAiNa -:- penile or breast? (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:23:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- Breasts, I've always wanted to be a hermaphrodite. -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 22:19:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Breasts, I've always wanted to be a hermaphrodite. -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:09:27 (GMT)

Father Divine -:- Get Real -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:32:22 (GMT)
__ Dave -:- Get Real -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 18:19:39 (GMT)

G -:- The Darwin Awards 2000 (ot) -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:31:25 (GMT)
__ Father Divine -:- The Darwin Awards 2000 (ot) -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:51:14 (GMT)
__ cq -:- The Darwin Awards 2000 - contenders from the past -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:50:33 (GMT)

AJW -:- Koan time -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 11:22:40 (GMT)
__ Loaf -:- Koan time -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 12:19:21 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- The question to ask the Maha is: 'If you asked a -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:24:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Put him out to grass. -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 07:59:38 (GMT)

Dave -:- In case you missed that video advert -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 11:05:55 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- I just watched it -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 04:10:32 (GMT)
__ JW -:- Be sure to check out the reviews, and do your own -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 19:46:10 (GMT)
__ SB -:- In case you missed that video advert -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 11:27:22 (GMT)
__ __ ET -:- Demand has been so great, there is now a delay(nt) -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 08:56:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ JW -:- Mine arrived -- I watched last night---- Oh, Man.. -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 17:05:40 (GMT)
__ __ Dave -:- In case you missed that video advert -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 12:37:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- OH, looking from the outside... -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 03:03:58 (GMT)

Gilead Ji -:- What Shri Hans a True Leader, but his family..... -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 04:18:21 (GMT)
__ raina -:- Albus Dumbledore -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:21:07 (GMT)
__ __ The jokes -:- about -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:36:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ raina -:- p.s. Albus DUMBledore is from Harry Potter -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 14:53:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Easy, Raina, 'The Jokes' is suicidal -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 16:20:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:29:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ raina -:- the ultimate cleansing -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 18:41:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ raina -:- The only BAD vice is AD vice-i wasn't asking 4 any -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 23:00:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- expecting what you think you deserve? -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 18:04:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ raina -:- My Hero! (blink blink blink) -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 23:02:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ raina -:- cq? i wasn't being sarcastic-thanx -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 15:14:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ I beg -:- to differ (Katie-out there?) -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 19:31:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- were you referring to me?? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 20:40:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- to differ (Katie-out there?) -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 20:36:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Hey, -:- to differ (Katie-out there?) -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 21:18:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- charcater assasins -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 15:40:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- 'same shit isn't it? maharaji or not....' -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 20:13:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- 'same shit isn't it? maharaji or not....' -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 23:34:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- 'same shit isn't it? maharaji or not....' -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 01:52:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- always the target -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 04:03:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- always the target -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:05:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- tone of voice -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:12:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- How bad was it? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:07:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Verbal abuse -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 20:52:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Geez, Katie, I didn't realize it was THAT bad -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:23:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Jim, you don't get it -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:45:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Fuck you Heller you rotten piece of shit (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:49:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Fuck you Heller -:- And I REALLY mean it for your post to Katie... -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 02:04:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- How bad was it? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:26:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ rAiNa -:- Bloody Abuse vs. Mentally fucked with -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:46:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- No, that wasn't it in the last five years . . . -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 22:14:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- No, that wasn't it in the last five years . . . -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:49:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- What????? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:50:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- I'm gonna be nice to you from now on, Run... -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:02:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- ya!-gErRy's agreed to be my pimp! -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:43:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- my hermaphrodite pimp that is! (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:45:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Watch out with the language, please! -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:52:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- um... -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:29:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- I can't believe I just apologized to you! -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:31:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ In fact -:- do some homework -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 19:52:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- your attempted mindfuc -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 15:11:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ disarming -:- your attempted mindfuc -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 17:19:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- NEW CHINESE RESTAURANT OPENING SOON -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 23:43:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Well that's -:- your attempted mindfuc -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 18:52:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Well, that's -:- a relieif -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 15:58:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- truth be told -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 19:02:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- Call Me Crazy but(t).... -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 23:28:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Call Me Crazy but(t).... -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:47:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- is manage a trois only to mean sex? -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:57:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- is manage a trois only to mean sex? -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:55:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Call Me Crazy but(t).... -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 01:53:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- bb! u disappoint me...! -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 03:03:05 (GMT)
__ blood -:- The story I heard was that he slept in train... -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 04:30:53 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- he slept in train stations and ate salt? -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 00:35:22 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- Read all about it... -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 14:05:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ raina -:- 'And then jesus coughed at 5:38am.' -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 03:29:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Happy -:- Hans was a fake, too -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 19:53:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bb -:- Hans was a fake, too -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 22:25:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ blood -:- no doubt....but a catchy story none the less (nt) -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 01:35:14 (GMT)

Dave -:- All Hell breaking loose again -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 01:18:33 (GMT)

blood -:- J-M your site is down -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 23:20:42 (GMT)
__ EV-ex -:- JM - EV France shut you down! -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 13:09:47 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- JM - EV France shut you down! -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 13:39:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ EV-ex -:- JM - EV France shut you down! -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 14:11:43 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- J-M your site is down: I know -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 23:31:33 (GMT)
__ __ Know It All -:- EV's action? -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:45:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ ex-premie rumors -:- We don't really know what happened do we?. -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 03:03:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- JM left to France today.... Tomorrow... Nt -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 03:05:43 (GMT)
__ __ blood -:- wouldn't put it past 'em to hack you -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 00:02:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- wouldn't put it past 'em to hack you -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 02:34:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ senge -:- Site is down -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 05:26:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Site is down -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 15:19:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ blood -:- virus circulating in Europe...reported on yahoo -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 15:12:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- oops I just posted this up top sorry -:- Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 18:47:39 (GMT)

Enraptured -:- Presidents of the Company -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 22:50:45 (GMT)
__ James Flynn -:- Presidents of the Company -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 07:35:31 (GMT)
__ lotus Eater -:- Presidents of the Company -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 23:24:29 (GMT)
__ __ Are you deluded -:- GOD, President of the Company!!!??? nt -:- Sat, May 06, 2000 at 09:55:15 (GMT)

G -:- How did this animal behavior evolve? -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 20:33:29 (GMT)
__ SB -:- How did this animal behavior evolve? -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 05:21:49 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- How did this animal behavior evolve? -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 21:06:07 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- Easily explained -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 21:43:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Easily explained -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 22:12:58 (GMT)

cq -:- Would his best friend tell him? -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 17:40:48 (GMT)
__ gErRy -:- Think I'll get a reply, Chris? -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 20:27:14 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Think I'll get a reply, Chris? -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 16:24:07 (GMT)
__ __ gErRy -:- Hey!!! I hooked one !!! -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 16:10:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Daneane -:- Hey!!! I hooked one !!! -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 16:27:42 (GMT)
__ __ shy gerry -:- no new thread for me, but breath easier, Melboring -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 20:37:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ jondon -:- defaming -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 23:54:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ A.P. -:- Thanks for the laugh (NT) -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 11:43:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Angry -:- defaming -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 10:48:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ jondon -:- pc -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 12:24:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- pc jondon--LOL LOL LOL -:- Wed, May 03, 2000 at 14:29:39 (GMT)

M. Dettmers'inner game -:- Nothing could stop me. -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 17:36:44 (GMT)
__ M. Dettmers'inner game -:- Nothing could stop me. -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 19:15:45 (GMT)

M.Detmers' inner voice -:- 16 mm devotional films -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 16:09:47 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- You mean like snuff films for the mind? -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 16:13:37 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt) -:- Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:27:21 (GMT)

M. Detmers' inner voice -:- What has become of Micheal Detmers these last few -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 16:06:44 (GMT)
__ JW -:- Yes, this is a concern..... -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 22:51:31 (GMT)
__ __ bb -:- Yes, this is a concern..... -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 23:23:46 (GMT)
__ bb -:- What has become of Micheal Detmers these last few -:- Tues, May 02, 2000 at 16:13:55 (GMT)


Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 19:36:32 (GMT)
From: Gerry the straight guy
Email: glyng@techline.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Sound Familiar ? And guess who 'David' is
Message:
The following is the spelling out of a situation that exists with Sai Baba. Sadly, it is extremely negative, and will possibly shock and distress you greatly as it did us, when we found ourselves in the incredible position of being presented with information we could not ignore. Once David accepted that something was very, very wrong, he began his own research. He has been very thorough, meanwhile hoping and praying every moment that the things he was uncovering were untrue. These findings are the last thing we both would ever have wanted.

However, they exist. We ask only that you read them all before forming any judgement.

Apart from our separate personal experiences, there are also included experiences of others, chosen from many such, which are an integral part of unveiling this huge, illusory global scam - the biggest hoax in the God business. A veritable mountain of information is now available, far more than I can possibly place before you. My task is to report the findings I do offer accurately, while presenting a cross section of untenable behaviour, lies uncovered and magic exposed. David has spent long hours and many months, talking to people all over the world, whilst unravelling this tangled skein of years of deceit accumulated around the said 'divinity incarnate', but he is not alone in this. Courageous people on every continent are banding together to expose the monumental spiritual fraud which has been perpetrated for the personal gain of a select group, headed by Sai Baba.

Disillusioned people of every rank and file who have also found what lies behind the facade - including ex-students of the Sai colleges, judges, doctors, government ministers in Europe, the Americas, Australia and beyond - are in agreement that it is now time to share their findings. There are hundreds of personal accounts which tear the veil from the 'avatar'. I give only a few. Due to verbosity from some of the contributors, I have edited the information, but not altered its context. Contributors have given permission to be quoted and identified. The accounts that follow are merely a fraction of those available, all describing a situation that has been functional for many years. This is an opportunity to become aware of it, thus moving into a position enabling informed choice, rather than one coming from ignorance.

I begin with my personal revelations. Those who read David's and my books (written before our discoveries and since removed from sale by us), know our history. How devoted we were to Sai Baba, to the point of each marrying the other, even though we were strangers from opposite sides of the world. How we travelled the world speaking of the wonder of him.

So, what happened to change everything?

When the dark side of Sai Baba began to be revealed to David, at first I refused to listen, unable to bear hearing anything negative about my beloved 'avatar of the age'. This unhappy state of affairs continued for six months, until on our next visit to India, I had my own validation of David's findings. Can you imagine how it felt as I began to see beyond the veil? For years I had enjoyed the privilege of being called to the interview room and had spent every moment there, focused only on Swami's face; until David suggested that I shift my attention to his hands. Watching rings, watches and other trinkets being palmed, or pulled out from the side of chair cushions, and seeing vibhuti tablets held between fingers before being crushed and 'manifest' was a horrifying revelation, a personal catastrophe for me. I had given up my life, my marriage, husband, children, home, career and homeland because of my love for Sai Baba - only to find trickery at the epicenter of all I held dear.

During subsequent interviews, increasingly aghast as I watched the same things happen again and again, I kept silently pleading 'Why? Why do it ??' This illusionist activity totally destroyed my trust in one whom I expected to practise the truth he preached. But magician's tricks were the very least of it. As time passed, and people began sharing their own experiences and findings with us, my world of divine-guru centred spirituality came crashing down.

Whilst still at the ashram, the worst thing for me - as a mother of sons - occurred when a young man, a college student, came to our room, to plead with David. 'Please Sir, do something to stop him sexually abusing us' (!). These sons of devotees, unable to bear their untenable position of being unwilling participants in a paedophile situation any longer, yet unable to share this with their parents because they would be disbelieved, placed their trust in David; a trust which had built over his five years as a visiting professor of music to the Sai college.

Later that night the same young man returned to our room in great distress, to implore David not to reveal his name, saying that he feared expulsion from the college, and even worse than that, for his personal safety, if it were to be found out that he had spoken of these things. David was able to reassure him that he didn't know his name, therefore could not, and would not, ever identify him. But this interaction and shocking revelation was merely the tip of an iceberg of sickening information, an iceberg that was to batter then sink our years of blind devotion.

Becoming increasingly cognisant of Sai Baba's sexual activity involving violation of basic human rights with the children (as young as seven years old) under his care, and the growing list of one deceit after another in activities stemming from him, brought awareness of the depth of our own emotional investment. Awareness also, of the devastation these discoveries wrought in us. We were placed in an untenable situation; unable to risk creating similar chaos in other spiritual seekers of like investment. The only course was to say little and move away, which caused a furore of angry and untrue rumours about us to proliferate.

Last year, David felt it appropriate to share his findings when personally questioned, but the dilemma of whether to speak or not tested me sorely. I felt keenly the responsibility of holding this negative knowledge; recognising that silence made me part of the conspiracy, but kept praying that given time, somehow, all of it would be satisfactorily explained away. It was not to be.

Over the past eighteen months we have become privy to so many serious, and horrific allegations, and so much damning information sent from disillusioned ex-devotees from all over the world (in particular, from ex-students of Sai Baba's male colleges) which supported our own findings, that it is now impossible to remain silent.

As editor of a magazine that has as its mandate the seeking of truth, I have no option but to fulfil my responsibility to that mandate. My decision to do so, follows much personal anguish, and earnest prayer, and I have been given the necessary support and courage by my inner guidance and outer, true friends.

It is not the doctrine of Sai Baba that is being scrutinised, but his practices within it - not the message, but the messenger. His message is for the most part, one of universal verities, even though his teachings have been found to have many contradictions, misquotes and proven anomalies.

The allegations I have gathered to record here, are in regard to the global scam he perpetrates. His chicanery, illusion, fraud, embezzlement, implication with murders, ongoing paedophile activities and the almost impenetrable fortress of lies creating his 'divinity'. The weight of detailed descriptive testimony regarding his participation in sexual activity with willing - and unwilling partners (both students and visiting foreigners), discounting the widely distributed justification of 'kundalini raising'. The super speciality hospital and water project being shown to be paper tigers, with apparent embezzlement of money, organ theft and unfulfilled hydration promises.

There are known investigations at governmental level world wide. The Sai school has been closed in Sweden. A veritable volcano is about to erupt, due to the disquiet of many, many people. The Internet has had a major role in this. The mass of experience and evidence being presented there is hard, thrusting, knife edged; and backed by courageous ex-devotees prepared to put their names to such statements for the good of all. David has personally contacted many of the contributors, and listened as they verbally verified and further described their own experiences.

Sadly, there is no way this letter can be gently worded.

The truth that THIS SITUATION EXISTS will stand. It will stand, whether it is believed or not.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 01:34:38 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Gerry the straight guy
Subject: Sound Familiar ? And guess who 'David' is
Message:
The letter IS gently worded.
They need a ex site like this that is ballsy to say the least.

It is embarrasing to see how much of an idiot I was. In reading this person it is all too clear THEY were in a dumb cult.
Too bad I couldnt see the cult I was in.

That sai baba is perhaps homosexual is not the issue.
The issue is that he is a fraudulant predator.

As are all the guru types.
Our own dear lord included.

I dont think that is david lane.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 19:47:34 (GMT)
From: Ajax
Email: None
To: Gerry the straight guy
Subject: David Lane?
Message:
m
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 02:22:53 (GMT)
From: ET
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Sai Baba ex site
Message:
There is a Sai Baba discussion board on the web at
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/sathyasaibaba

There, ex-SB devotees debate with current devotees, similar to this forum.

The David can't be David Lane, although he contributes to that forum.

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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 02:40:42 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: ET
Subject: No, not David Lane...and bill
Message:
I forgot 'straight' means 'not gay' also. I meant something else.
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 15:13:41 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Contest is over, David is...
Message:

ICKE !!!

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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 18:32:18 (GMT)
From: Ajax
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Who's David Icke? (nt)
Message:
b
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 18:56:31 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Ajax
Subject: Jim's favorite author...
Message:
He's a former soccer player and sportscaster from the UK who had some sort of 'awakening' (some would say psychotic breakdown and I wouldn't argue with them.)

He's written a few far out books and does the mystic radio talk show and lecture circuit. He's also a former Green peace guy, now famous for his characterizations of elitist 'leaders' like baby Bush as 'shape shifting reptoid aliens from some place in outer space. Houston, I believe. One of Run's neighbors.

Anyway I took the piss outta Jim with this guy. Like I'd really believe there's such a thing as shape shifting reptoid presidential candidates. Everyone knows those guys never show their faces in public...

Here's a url

http://www.davidicke.com/icke/index.html

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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 20:57:10 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Yeah, sure you did, Ger. Sure you did
Message:
Anyway I took the piss outta Jim with this guy. Like I'd really believe there's such a thing as shape shifting reptoid presidential candidates. Everyone knows those guys never show their faces in public...

Are you actually saying you never took Icke seriously? I don't believe you.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 01:31:06 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Yeah, sure you did, Ger. Sure you did
Message:
Not that anyone cares, but hear goes. (I'm doing this because we would have had this discussion here if there hadn't been the posting problem and I'm sure Jim won't mind)

I'm on read only mode for some reason on the forum, a server problem I guess. (Maybe not) As to your question did I take Icke seriously? Come on Jim, well before you posted the quotes about the reptilian stuff, I was making fun of it. I mentioned Bush the Reptoid in at least two posts prior to your expose.

My main argument with you over this was against your contention that the guy is a racist, anti-semitic. He's not. And I thought it sucked that he was being denied his free speech rights in Vancouver. Isn't there a Canadian equivalent of the 2nd amendment?

He is entertaining. But the characterization of him as a racist is not true.

Ger,

I don't know how in the world you can think that anyone who takes the Protocols of Zion seriously is not anti-semitic. Perhaps you can explain but I just don't see it. The document purports to be a very, very ugly set of minutes detailing the very, very ugly jewish plan to take over the world and enslave all its people. Just because Icke says he's not anti-jewish, it doesn't mean it's so. David Duke says he isn't a racist either.

Ande yes, you started making fun of Icke yourself at one point. I remember. But that wasn't before we'd had a long argument in which you defended him. That's how I recall it.>

Well I certainly don't want to be publicly (or privately for that matter) associated with racism.

Icke says the POZ are not about Jews but rather it is a blueprint for some global conspiracy of the 'Illuminati.' Calling them the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion' was just a clever ruse to displace blame if this global conspiracy was ever exposed. Of course, the Illuminati had (has?) Jewish members but the overwhelming majority are Anglo, according to Icke..

Maybe I can find something from his own writings (god don't make me do this) that is more succinct, as I obviously did a bad job explaining this before.

Oh and yeah, I did poke fun at his reptile stuff before you quoted it. Always the main debate between us on this issue has been your claims that Icke is racist. We never got beyond that to discussing any of his other claims/beliefs.

How 'bout this: Icke takes the POZ seriously as evidence of a global conspiracy. He knows it was not written by anyone of Jewish descent. But why would he even bring it up then? Could he expound his conspiracy theories without referring to what is obviously a forgery and proven to so? Hmmm... I think in his eagerness to 'document' his theories, he picked up the wrong potato. Poor judgement on his part? A very big yes. Evidence of gross racism? I don't thinks so if you can believe his defense on this very issue. You know he was hammered to death about this, and so he did have a very solid and vigorous defense. (Some of my best friends are Jews, etc)

Now if he had ANY other background of anti-semiticism, I would agree with you. David Duke is a poor comparison; his writings and personal reputation PROVE his racism beyond a doubt. It's a different case with Icke.


Okay, show me where Icke says that the PofZ wasn't written by jews but only purports to be.

But you're only dealing with one issue. What about the second which is did you ever take him seriously?


Jim,

I don't have any of his books, I'm relying on memory, and I remember him making a huge defensive deal out of the POZ thing. Obviously the book I saw was written after the initial POZ fiasco. I wasn't serious enough about his 'theories' to even finish reading his book, let alone buy one-- I forget which one it was, actually, I'd gotten it out of the library. But it's there.

Here's what I think: there is a serious concerted effort towards one world government and globalism. And it ain't for the benefit of the little guy. Icke has some of the pieces to the puzzle and in that sense anyone could and perhaps should, take that information seriously.

I couldn't follow him into his reptile alien fantasy land. I consider him to be a disinformation agent whose purpose is to denigrate and bring ridicule upon the real people (like Chomsky, whom I've recently started to read, not exhaustively-- no quiz yet, please) who are facing up to this issue of globalism, corporate domination, and the concentration of wealth and power into fewer and fewer hands.

Actually, that's my opinion now. I thought he was saying something serious until I hit the wall. And yeah, I was yanking your chain about him. Not at first, but certainly later. Sorry that wasn't very nice and then to publicly rub your nose in it, for shame.

Didn't I hear about this guy from you first? It's all your fault !!!

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:37:53 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Chomsky
Message:
i gave away my (newly purchased) copy of Manufacturing Consent about 30 days after being introduced to maharaji (meeting) in 1989...never got to finish it....
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 13:11:36 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Chomsky
Message:
Chomsky is one of my favourite people. I unfortunately haven't had the money to buy his book, but have watched a film/video of Manufacturing Consent, directed by Peter Wintonick (whom I've worked with) and someone else, a number of times. Why did you give it away - or was it part of the m-effect?
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:41:40 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Chomsky
Message:
this is a tricky question...or maybe it isn't?
yes-it was the M-effect, but it wasn't M telling me to
'give ALL my belongings away'.....it was this crazy guy
(who brought me to knowledge meetings originally)...

he completely seduced me....and i feel like an idiot for
falling for it....but i did...

a video?!?

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:59:42 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Chomsky
Message:
Why am I not surprised about it being m-related!

And yes, the video is available from the National Film Board of Canada, and occasionally screens on CBC Newsworld. I saw it on the 'big screen' when it first came out. I taped it off the TV a number of years ago, and should still have it, but I may have lent it one too many times. (times when I wish more people could be trusted - live and learn - but it can be slow at times)

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:23:36 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Chomsky Chomsky Chomsky Chomsky
Message:
it looks so funny on the thread (sounds like someone eating with a speech impediment...)
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 14:06:32 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: You're a Chomsky fan? What a surprise
Message:
Who'd have thought, Stonor?
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:54:52 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Surprise? Why?
Message:
I don't know why people seem to form such rapid judgements! Believe me Jim, you hardly know me. My first degree, as I've mentioned I think, was in Communication Studies, and I began teaching while I was doing it. I worked in the field for a while, but there was too much BS and ego. I found teaching more meaningful. Wintonick and Robin Spry were two people that it was a priviledge to have worked with - great people! And Robert Lantos is a decent man, with an interesting story, as well.

Are you into Chomsky Jim?

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:18:24 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Surprise? Why?
Message:
He expects you to figure out on your own that he doesn't like Chomsky and is being sarcastic.

It's like I have a degree in Jim's mind, just what I need.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:11:25 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Surprise? Why?
Message:
Oh sarcasm!! Of course!! I tend to miss it sometimes. Oh well, maybe we should let him explain without jumping to conclusions. If I had more time I'd go into it more. Maybe tonight.

It's like I have a degree in Jim's mind, just what I need.

What a concept . . . Maybe you could take a quiz, like married couples on game shows . . . now THAT could be fun!! You could always consider it as an in-depth case study - they always come in handy - sometime.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:14:53 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Surprise? Why?
Message:
Are you into Chomsky Jim?

My guess would be he hasn't read two sentences of Chomsky. The lying egotistical piece of shit barely even reads the Evolution literature he holds so dearly. He admitted it. He gets most of his ideas from his girlfriend. He can't be bothered. He's too busy obsessing about this pissant guru and watching South Park.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:17:00 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Surprise? Why?
Message:
He has a girlfriend? Makes sense - she probably is a 'girl.' And I have to admit Gerry (aren't you also gErRy?) that I was surprised to read that you have a wife. Why doesn't she ever post?

And there seem to be a lot of people who spout what they've HEARD about something instead of reading for themselves and taking the time to understand what the writer is really saying, instead of reading their own preconceptions and biases into it, even here!!!

And Gerry, the FY Heller stuff does set a bad precedent for the premies.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:41:26 (GMT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Wanna talk to Patty?
Message:
Why doesn't she ever post?

Patty wasn't in the cult. She works with computers all day and likes to do other things on her off time.

You can email her if you like: pflyng@techline.com

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:53:25 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Stonor are you PC'ing Me?
Message:
Actually Jim's girlfriend is a great person, and very pretty, too. She and my wife hit it off very well, so I regret we won't be spending any time together in the future for that reason only.

Is Women friend better? Lady friend? What do you suggest? Significant other? That sounds so cold and impersonal to me.

I'm done spamming, btw. I'm over it. Oh how convenient! Jim was just being facietious !!! He forgot the smiley face emoticon, though.

Yes I'm Gerry, gerry, gErRy and Gerard. I rarely use psuedos, though I have a few comedic ones I like.

I've been married to Patty whom I've know since she and I were 14 years old. We were married in 1985 after years of seeing each other sporatically but not dating. Something finally clicked. We have a wonderful marriage, the best thing about my life really, and no children by mutual choice.

And there seem to be a lot of people who spout what they've HEARD about something instead of reading for themselves and taking the time to understand what the writer is really saying, instead of reading their own preconceptions and biases into it, even here!!!

Yes I agree, and this seems to be endemic in our TV society where so many people just lap up the bullshit without a second thought.

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:12:01 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Stonor are you PC'ing Me? (Not)
Message:
Hi Gerry,

No, I don't like the PC concept - I was actually teasing you - sorry I didn't use the proper emotio-icon. What does political correctness have to do with the recognition of the individuality of each human being?

Thanks for filling in the info-gap. I am always surprised when men who seem so antagonistic towards women have wives and 'girl'friends (and I do find that term problematic in this day and age, but it is a difficult transition for all of us - the times they are a changin'). My mother was considered an 'old maid' when she ('finally', at age 28 got married. I feel like I am finally 'meeting' you, or you are finally meeting me, at least halfway, and I truly appreciate that.

But why doesn't Patty post? Is she a non-anything like me?

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 03:20:47 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Okay, this is .... interesting
Message:
I consider him to be a disinformation agent whose purpose is to denigrate and bring ridicule upon the real people (like Chomsky, whom I've recently started to read, not exhaustively-- no quiz yet, please) who are facing up to this issue of globalism, corporate domination, and the concentration of wealth and power into fewer and fewer hands.

Who's he report to, Ger? Rob? SB? Arthur Chapelle?

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:21:18 (GMT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Huh?
Message:
Fuck you Heller you piece of shit
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:11:18 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Good answer, Ger
Message:
Funny watching you act like this. Maybe it's the implants?
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:25:02 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:42:10 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Hey maybe I'm part of the conspiracy too!
Message:
You got to really think about this, Ger.
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:33:05 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Fuck you Heller, you rotten, LYING piece of shit
Message:
sdfasdf
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:38:13 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: The piece of shit
Subject: Think about what?
Message:
What a piece of shit you are? I've are ready decided on that, thanks.
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:23:51 (GMT)
From: rAiNa
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: penile or breast? (nt)
Message:
pt
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 22:19:53 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: rAiNa
Subject: Breasts, I've always wanted to be a hermaphrodite.
Message:
Then I could really do it when people tell me to go fuck myself.
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:09:27 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Breasts, I've always wanted to be a hermaphrodite.
Message:
To be a hemaphrodite dear Gerry, you'd have to have a vagina and a penis although only one would be functional. Just FYI. :)
My landlady use to have a hemaphrodite goat when she lived here and they named it Jack and Jill!!! Isn't that perfect! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:32:22 (GMT)
From: Father Divine
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Get Real
Message:
Let's get real folks.
The real God, right here:

FATHER and MOTHER DIVINE'S International Peace Mission Movement

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 18:19:39 (GMT)
From: Dave
Email: vpost3@hotmail.com
To: Father Divine
Subject: Get Real
Message:
An excerpt from their site:

'Now FATHER DIVINE would not be GOD if HE didn't have the Victory over death - if HE couldn't raise that Body - because if GOD is GOD, nothing is greater than GOD, and GOD cannot be limited! But whether HE will do it or not - that's HIS Business. And to those of us who know FATHER DIVINE is GOD, that doesn't say HE'S not GOD. It doesn't add to it, and it doesn't take from it! To us, HE'S Changeless Perfection!'

Looks like this is a good candidate for the Incarnations of God page.

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:31:25 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Darwin Awards 2000 (ot)
Message:
Tragic, but...

The Darwin Awards 2000

One of the long awaited moments of each new year is the awarding
of the Darwin Award. This prestigious award recognizes those
people, who through stupid and inane actions kill themselves,
thus improving society by removing their genes from the gene
pool. So here are the runners-up for this year's award.

(15 July 1999, Alabama) A 25-year-old soldier died of injuries
sustained from a 3-story fall, precipitated by his attempt to
spit farther than his buddy. His plan was to hurl himself towards
a metal guardrail while expectorating, in order to add momentum
to his saliva. In a tragic miscalculation, his momentum carried
him right over the railing, which he caught hold of for a few
moments before his grip slipped, sending him plummeting 24 feet
to the cement below. The military specialist had a blood alcohol
content of 0.14%, impairing his judgment and paving the way for
his opportunity to win a Darwin Award.

(11 August 1999) A 42-year-old man killed himself watching the
eclipse while driving near Kaiserslautern, Germany. A witness
driving behind him stated that the man was weaving back and forth
as he concentrated on the partially occluded sun, when he
suddenly accelerated and hit the bridge pier. He had apparently
just donned his solar viewers, which are dark enough to totally
obscure everything except the sun.

(25 May 1999, Ukraine) A fisherman in Kiev electrocuted himself
while fishing in the river Tereblya. The 43-year-old man
connected cables to the main power supply of his home, and
trailed the end into the river. The electric shock killed the
fish, which floated belly-up to the top of the water. The man
waded in to collect his catch, neglecting to remove the live
wire, and tragically suffered the same fate as the fish. In an
ironic twist, the man was fishing for a mourning meal to
commemorate the first anniversary of his mother-in-law's death.

(16 August 1999, Germany) A hunter from Bad Urach was shot dead
by his own dog on Monday. The 51-year-old man was found sprawled
next to his car in the Black Forest. A gun barrel was pointing
out the window, and his bereaved dog was howling inside the car.
The animal is presumed to have pressed the trigger with its paw.
Police have ruled out foul play.

(1991, Nicosia, Cypress) Under similar circumstances, an Iranian
hunter was shot to death near Tehran by a snake that coiled
around his shotgun as he pinned the reptile to the ground.
Another hunter reported that the victim, named Ali, tried to
catch the snake alive by pressing the butt of his shotgun behind
its head. The snake coiled around the butt and pulled the
trigger, shooting Ali in the head.

(August 1999, Australia) Drinking oneself to death need not be a
long lingering process. Allan, a 33-year-old computer technician,
showed his competitive spirit by dying of competitive spirits. A
Sydney, Australia hotel bar held a drinking competition, known as
Feral Friday, with a 100-minute time limit and a sliding point
scale ranging from 1 point for beer to 8 points for hard liquor.
Allan stood and cheered his winning total of 236, (winners never
quit!) which had also netted him the literally staggering blood
alcohol level of 0.353, 7 times greater than Australia's legal
driving limit of 0.05%. After several trips to the usual temple
of overindulgence, the bathroom, Allan was helped back to his
workplace to sleep it off, a condition that became permanent. A
forensic pharmacologist estimated that after downing 34 beers, 4
bourbons, and 17 shots of tequila within 1 hour and 40 minutes,
his blood alcohol level would have been 0.41 to 0.43, but Allan
had vomited several times after the drinking stopped. The cost
paid by Allan was much higher than that of the hotel, which was
fined the equivalent of $13,100 US dollars for not intervening.
It is not known whether Allan required any further embalming.

(28 January 1999, London) A flock of sheep charged a well-meaning
British farmer's wife and pushed her over a cliff to her death.
Betty Stobbs, 67, was charged by dozens of sheep as she brought
them a bale of hay on the back of a power bike. The sheep rushed
forward and rammed the vehicle, knocking Betty and her bike over
the edge of a vacant 100' quarry near Durham, in northeastern
England. 'I saw the sheep surround the bike. The next thing she
was tumbling down the incline,' neighbor Alan Renfry told reporters.

First Runner Up Award goes to ... (22 March 1999, Phnom Penh)
Decades of armed strife has littered Cambodia with unexploded
munitions and ordnance. Authorities warn citizens not to tamper
with the devices. Three friends recently spent an evening sharing
drinks and exchanging insults at a local cafe in the southeastern
province of Svay Rieng. Their companionable arguing continued for
hours, until one man pulled out a 25-year-old unexploded
anti-tank mine found in his backyard. He tossed it under the
table, and the three men began playing Russian roulette, each
tossing down a drink and then stamping on the mine. The other
villagers fled in terror. Minutes later, the explosive detonated
with a tremendous boom, killing the three men in the bar. 'Their
wives could not even find their flesh because the blast destroyed
everything,' the Rasmei Kampuchea newspaper reported.

And the 1999 Darwin Award winner is..... (5 September
1999,Jerusalem) The switch away from daylight savings time caused
consternation among terrorist groups this year. At precisely 5:30
Israel time on Sunday, two coordinated car bombs exploded in
different cities, killing three terrorists who were transporting
the bombs. It was initially believed that the devices had been
detonated prematurely by klutzy amateurs. A closer look revealed
the truth behind the untimely explosions. Three days before,
Israel had made a premature switch from daylight savings time to
standard time in order to accommodate a week of Slihot, involving
pre-sunrise prayers. Palestinians refused to 'live on Zionist
time.' Two weeks of scheduling havoc ensued. The bombs had been
prepared in a Palestine-controlled area, and set on Daylight
Savings time.The Confused drivers had already switched to
standard time. As a result, the cars were still en-route when the
explosives detonated, delivering to the terrorists their
well-deserved demise.

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:51:14 (GMT)
From: Father Divine
Email: None
To: G
Subject: The Darwin Awards 2000 (ot)
Message:
A few words on Sapphire:

George:That ol gal can keep calm louder than any women ever I'd seed in my life.

George:Some time I think I'd be better off if I'da gone down the aisle with an aligator.

On seeing Sapphire in the morning, decked out in robe and curlers:
George:I told yas before, don't come to the table in that get up until I's hads a chance to gets somethin in my stomach.

A few words on Sapphires MaMa:

George:Hmmm, the ol walrus musta had a mustach we never know'd about.

Sapphire to George: What's the matter George?
George: Hash! Last night meatloaf, night before stew. Don't cattle come in one piece anymore?

George to Andy: Andy I can't find Sapphire, she done disappeared! I knows it's serious this time, she done left me before, but she's always left an insultin letter.
Andy:Well Kingfish maybe she done run off with another man.
George: Don't be silly Andy, anybody who'd run off with her is under lock and key.

One day Sapphire decides that Andy is at the root of all Kingfish's problems, so she forbids him to see Andy again. The Kingfish tries to avoid Andy, and Andy soon begins to wonder what's going on, he finally corners Kingfish, and wants an explanation:
George to Andy: Sits down son and I'll explains to you the sitcheation, are you's familiar with the ole Eslops fable about two donkeys that was crossin the river in double harness. While they was crossin it seemed like one of the donkeys slipt, and for awhile there the other donkey managed to keeps his companion from plungin into the ragen torrence below. Then he seen that he to would be dragged down with his friend, so Andy, that other donkey cut that harness and let his friend fall into the raggin torrence below.
Andy: Well Kingfish I feels sorry for the donkey, but whats all this gots to do with me?
George: Well Andy from one jackass to another, I thinks you'd better start taken swimmin lessons.

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:50:33 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: G
Subject: The Darwin Awards 2000 - contenders from the past
Message:
In Chicago two alleged rapists punched the air in victory when told they were to be freed because their victim had failed to turn up at court to testify against them. Their exuberance was cut short when they were told her absence was due to the fact that she was suffering from AIDS.
The Lancet, 1991




When a fortune-teller in Naples forecast that one of his clients would go to jail, the man was so enraged by the prediction that he pulled out a gun and shot the soothsayer - for which he was jailed.
The Sun, 13 Jan 1992




Iraqi terrorist Khay Rahnajet badly misjudged things when he attempted a letter bombing. He did not pay enough postage on his package for it to reach his intended victim. Instead it came back with 'Return to Sender' stamped on it, and exploded when Rahnajet picked it up.
The People, 27 Nov 1994




Ionnis Philippou, 50, from Cyprus, was huddling over a paraffin heater, trying to keep warm, during freezing weather, when he accidentally overturned it, setting fire to his clothes. Mr Philippou rushed outside and hurled himself into a shallow reservoir, dousing the flames but drowning in the process.
Times of Oman, 19 Jan 1995




A cat named 'Pugnacious' got stuck on a ledge outside his owner Marjorie Daley's ninth-floor flat in Sydney, Australia. Mrs Daley called to him to come in but the cat was too scared to move, so she climbed onto the railing to reach him. As she did so, she lost her balance and fell forward, knocking Pugnacious off the ledge.

They both hurtled earthwards, but miraculously a skip full of rotten pumpkins broke their fall. Pugnacious hit the skip fractionally before his owner, who landed on top of him, crushing him to death.
Big Issue, 15-20 Apr 1996




Dominique Guiholt was glad to be alive after she survived a 3,700-foot drop when her parachute failed to open. Miraculously she landed in a bale of hay in a field. The feeling didn't last long: four hours later, at home, she slipped on her bathroom floor and cracked her skull on the toilet, dying instantly.
Europa Times, Jan 1994




Firemen answering an emergency call at the home of Richard Derrick in Taunton arrived just as Mr Derrick's 80-gallon tropical fish tank exploded. This put out the fire, but left 60 tropical fish floundering on the carpet. The firemen scooped them up and threw them into another tank which had remained intact. This turned out to be the home of Percy the Pirhana, who promptly ate 57 of them.
Independent on Sunday, 25 Nov 1990




Desperate for a cure for his raging toothache, farm labourer Francisco Asis dos Santos actually tried to shoot the offending tooth out. When he put his pistol to his mouth and pulled the trigger, at point-blank range, he still managed to miss, and shot out one of his eyes instead.
Sussex Evening Argus






And, finally, my favourite:

Professor Marvo, a magician in Argentina, came to a sticky end when one of his tricks was just too believable for his own good. Performing to a small crowd in a tavern in Azul, he climaxed his act by catching a bullet, fired by his assistant, in his teeth.

In reality the assistant fired a blank and the magician merely produced a bullet he had hidden in his mouth, but this subtlety was missed by Marco Asprella, a 48-year-old gold miner in the audience.

Asprella was so impressed by the trick that he whipped out his own .45 calibre handgun and yelling 'Catch this one Professor', fired it straight into Marvo's face, virtually severing his head from his body.

At the murder trial he made it clear that he didn't understand why Marvo had been unable to catch the bullet. The jury sympathised and acquitted him.
Weekly World News, 9 Feb 1988


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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 11:22:40 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Koan time
Message:
Hi,

Several times on the forum I've asked premies, 'What's the difference between a Premie and a Moonie?'

No premies have responded yet- other than to waffle away with stuff like, 'I've never met a Moonie so I can't answer.'

Well folks, I can now reveal the answer to this question.

The difference between a Premie and a Moonie is that one of them worships the true living Lord, and the other worships a fake Anti-christ, false prophet character.

Of course, the question arises, 'Which one worships the real Lord and who worships the 'False Prophet?'

The answer to that one is, 'The one you're talking to at the time worships the real Lord. The one who's not there worships the false prophet.'

Anth, finally got to the bottom of it.

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 12:19:21 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Koan time
Message:
Remember the old riddle - two people, one Premie, one Moonie- one always tells the truth, one always lies - you can ask one question to one of them to try to tell 'em apart.

In the immortal words of Tommy Cooper, Pot, kettle, Kettle, Pot!

Loaf the confused

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:24:15 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: The question to ask the Maha is: 'If you asked a
Message:
The question to ask the Maha is:

'If you asked a premie if you are the Lord in human form, what would a premie reply? That you are, or that you're not?'

We know that the old guard of premies used to think him to be 'God incarnate'.

I wonder what the new crop of recent adherents would say?

I also wonder which of the two Maharaji prefers?

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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 07:59:38 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Put him out to grass.
Message:
Hi cq,

He still thinks he's the Living Perfect Master, and the old premies still think he's the Lord too. The new premies just need to 'experience knowledge' and they'll also realise that Maharaji is 'Heem'.

Maharaji is the cults biggest liability. His view of his role as Perfect Master hasn't changed at all. Maybe he could be put out to grass, and a socially acceptable religion, based on meditation could rise from the ashes of the personality cult.

Yes, I see it all now- I could start practising again, rise in the new organisation, then one day I could be Perfect Master- Oooops- I mean Chief Executive. HA HA HA (laughter with evil, power mad echo).

The World will be mine. There will be peace on earth and the lion will truly shag the lamb.

Yeah for it is written.

Anth- losing it in France

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 11:05:55 (GMT)
From: Dave
Email: vpost3@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: In case you missed that video advert
Message:
You might have missed the latest info on the video of Maharaji and Divine Light Mission.

Click here to see the Lord of the Universe

Someone with the technology could even put an pmeg or have a video stream online of some of the best bits. My favourite bit is the nearly empty astradome with Maharaji on his throne in full God Incarnate gear and a big sign behind him flashing God. Also, the bit where a premie talks about cutting the throat of the custard pie thrower has to be seen to be believed.

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 04:10:32 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: I just watched it
Message:
It is painful. It really is. Please tell me I never said those things or looked that way.

On a funny note though:

Mata Ji looks so young.

Rawat looks and acts like a spoiled brat teenager. Especially his 'press conference'. Catch him looking at the premies with this ha ha I just dissed him look whenever he is asked a difficult question and he dodges it.

I agree with Joe. What was wrong with me that I wasn't like the immediate ex premie?

The slit his throat guy. That is scary.

Love the different cults fighting over whose cult is the right one, that was artistry!

Gotta get this everyone.

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 19:46:10 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: Be sure to check out the reviews, and do your own
Message:
Jim has a great one, and there are currently two others, all giving the video 5 stars and saying it was very funny. You can put your own review up there as well.
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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 11:27:22 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: In case you missed that video advert
Message:
Dave,

Did you read the bottom of the screen?? It was all a comedy?? I'm an idiot! I wish I knew it all those years...

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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 08:56:43 (GMT)
From: ET
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Demand has been so great, there is now a delay(nt)
Message:
demand
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 17:05:40 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: ET
Subject: Mine arrived -- I watched last night---- Oh, Man..
Message:
I had seen it once before about a year ago, but watching it again was pretty amazing. I wish I had had the forsight of some of those 'ex-premies' shown on the film, who saw right away the disconnect between receiving meditation techniques and devoting your life to Guru Maharaj Ji.

Seeing the Lord of the Universe get hit in the face with a pie, alone, was worth the $29.

Rennie Davis came accross as the ultimate idiot. Did anyone besides him actually BELIEVE that that idiot Bohle Ji was the 'Lord of Music', despite the fact that he has no talent whatsoever? What a dweeb. I saw a number of people I knew in the video -- (so glad I was not captured on film.)

Including:

Danny Munter -- acting like a spastic when he got a flower touched by the Lord of the Universe on the Houston Airport tarmac. Danny Munter now posts on Enjoyinglife that he is a 'successful Los Angeles stock broker.' You've come a long way, baby!

Fats Goldstein -- who said that if he had gotten Pat Haley, who hit Maharaji in the face with a pie, he would have 'slit his throat on the spot.' He also said that the reason Maharaji smuggled jewels into India, and drives Rolls Royces is for the publicity -- so people would hear about him in the news. Funny.

Was that Glenn Whittaker (the guy with the British accent saying he doesn't have to think because now he KNOWS, who was preventing people with Bibles from entering the Astrodome)? What a condescending, holier-than-thow, jerk he was.

I had to admit that the screaming Jesus Freak out front of the Astrodome was actually right about how you have to talk to premies. She was great -- except for her fundamentalism, of course.

Finally, that 'press conference' tells a lot about the arrogance of the man Prem Pal Singh Rawat.

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 12:37:58 (GMT)
From: Dave
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: In case you missed that video advert
Message:
But you can salvage one thing. It might look good on your CV (resume) if you write that you were the supporting act in a comedy for X number of years.
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 03:03:58 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: OH, looking from the outside...
Message:
the site is very, very funny!! Thanks for liberacion...

Hi Dave...

SB

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 04:18:21 (GMT)
From: Gilead Ji
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What Shri Hans a True Leader, but his family.....
Message:
I was wondering if Shri Hans could have been a geniune Hindu religious leader, but then his family got all messed up after he died. I don't think he would be happy with the way his four sons are all divided, and refuse to get together as a family. I wonder if Shri Hans was sort of a humanist, believing that all human beings are divine in that sense? I hope I don't sound gullible with this question, but there are differences in world cultures. Just like the Native tribes in America who eat peyote buttons (but that does sound exciting and interesting!) and also, just think of the bugs, such as grasshoppers, that the Bible says are kosher.
By the way, how do you like my newly self proclaimed title of 'Ji'? Hey, maybe Mr. M. could sell the title of 'Ji' on a certificate, to persons giving golden donations of $100,000 or more.
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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:21:07 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Albus Dumbledore
Message:
I have to say-that it was largely because of 2 stories I heard about M's father that kept me coming back for more...(Shri Hans is his his father's name right?)....

One was something about M being 'back at the ranch' in India as a child, with all the nutty people always around his father....and there was one guy who seemed obsessed with the most trivial details of minor things, like counting pencils and pens (?)....

Anyway-M said that he thought this guy was completely insane...but later realized what was going on with him......I can't remember the DETAILS of the story!...

But I think about this fucking 'insane' guy like everyday! Because ever since, I TOO now obsess on the details of my life-to the point that NO ONE wants to hear it etc AND CALL ME CRAZY!....(not to mention to the point where people feel so challenged by it IT'S also DANGEROUS!)....but i wouldn't change it for anything or anyone (as much as i wish i'd meet someone who would change me!)

THIS is my dilema...because i DO feel rich because of the clear and vivid memories...but ironically when EVER i attempt to share anything about my life with ANYONE (including M) absolutely NO ONE gives shit...AND CALLS ME CRAZY! (Or makes a joke about medication!) Or it's just fake etc....

NO ONE has ever loved me in my life beyond wanting me to 'make them proud' or want to fuck me' etc (or be a number in their ARMY!).........................and i am NOT asking for any of you morons sympathy! It's just WHAT IT IS!

For me, THIS was 'Knowledge' and WHY M said 'Are you SURE you want to know?' ALL the time, and was reluctant to alter people's normalcy too quickly (or at all) because knowing is a double-edged sword (the 'truth' hurts as they say) and it's a shock to see things about the 'beloved' in your life........(bad example but: if you say 'FUCK!' in the middle of your cure for cancer speech to the AMA all they hear is that ONE word etc they will CHOOSE to live with cancer because they're jarred by a certain 'low-class' (or whatever) utterance of expression.....in other words, the MOST important communications are lost even between people who 'love'(ya right) and need each other becasue of the nature of the human mind-it's just a given.....I feel like I kept getting better at HEARING through things and SEEING through things in order to make better connections. But in fact it only sent me further and further away too...

........I despise SO much of everything that I used to simply never notice-and yet-by DESPISING it..i'm fighting it too (and thereby contributing in perhaps a necessary way/function etc.) What's traditionally considered 'good or bad' is less and less clear ....a Lone Raina alas...

and in the chaos of pointless detail..........i quiet myself to listen and (when i don't want to murder GeRry and JIM and the lot) sometimes I hear something clearly...AND IT'S SO FUCKING RARE IT's not funny!

I'm not singing M's praises (please don't accuse-so boring) as much as pointing out that M or not....these things make sense, and no one should ever feel ashamed (and the hate from that shame?) for being drawn to them.

I'm not putting too much effort into being as clear as I might could be here- because the energy instead goes into anticipating all the attacking (believe me NOT just in forum V)...and so i can't always shake the depression that lingers thru etc......'why bother' etc...

'To the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure.'-Albus Dumbledore

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:36:10 (GMT)
From: The jokes
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: about
Message:
medications aren't jokes. You're not going to find the help you need on this forum.
Paxil,Prozac,etc,etc are a gift from above. Check into them esp if you're quoting death quotes. You're whole outlook will be much less desparate and life will become more balanced.
Assassin school is not the answere and neither are chinese herbs.
Brain chemistry balancing is a serious science now.
I think I would not be the only one that would support you in this.
Jokes and sarcasm are not what you need. I'm afraid the likelihood of that here is huge.
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 14:53:33 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: The jokes
Subject: p.s. Albus DUMBledore is from Harry Potter
Message:
not your typical 'death' quote....the kids seem to be loving it....The Best-selling children's book? did you hear! chris columbus is directing this summer!

isn't it so ironic! that millions of happy children all over the world are joyfully singing the name 'Albus Dumbledor', but because YOU don't know who it is, you assume it's just non-sense out of a 'nut''s mouth....and start prescribing medication!!! I pity the people you damage...

can you think of anything more evil? than trying to make a stranger doubt their own sanity? (anonymously no less!) esp. when they've been open enough to have been doing it themselves!? for all the things people go to jail for...they should be traded for THAT one.....you unconscious waste....

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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 16:20:20 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Easy, Raina, 'The Jokes' is suicidal
Message:
Raina,

It's pretty obvious that The Jokes is teetering. Careful now. It's so important to remember that everyone's psyche is periodically up for review. Thus it's so important to treat everyone here with the utmost respect, even psychopods like The Jokes.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:29:28 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt)
Message:
adsf
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 18:41:09 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: the ultimate cleansing
Message:
yesterday i was convincing an 8 year old to spare the lives of ants he was pouncing on because 'they have families expecting them home'....

human beings seem less innocent and worthy of protection at times.....especially when they seem as backwards as they are sneaky....i can't help but wonder if one person's suicide is perhaps another's life getting to remain in tact...as they are spared from that body snatcher....

but of course my bark is way louder than my bite-if you hadn't noticed...)
of course i would be devastated if anyone actually hurt themselves because of anything i said....

which is why i would never go looking for trouble.....my doberman is defensive....

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 23:00:12 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: The jokes
Subject: The only BAD vice is AD vice-i wasn't asking 4 any
Message:
repeat subject 500 times
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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 18:04:02 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: The jokes
Subject: expecting what you think you deserve?
Message:
expecting what you think you deserve?



So your answer is the old chemical straitjacket?

Look Mr/Mrs 'the jokes' - this Forum might not make sense to you, but it fulfills a valuable service for those of us who have been through/are going through the trauma of facing up to how deluded/deceived we were/are with the Maha.

And simply the ability to have an outlet where expression is possible, after all those years of towing the party line and pretending to fit in with the ideal of 'premie-hood' - that ability, that outlet, is worth more, and is more therapeutic, than any of the drug-induced coshes you seem to be advocating.


Raina - kudos to you for posting. Keep it coming. My first posts here were less than conventional too, but with time, the clarity came. (and don't let that put you off!)

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 23:02:45 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: My Hero! (blink blink blink)
Message:
xoxo
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 15:14:23 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: cq? i wasn't being sarcastic-thanx
Message:
...........................again
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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 19:31:11 (GMT)
From: I beg
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: to differ (Katie-out there?)
Message:
cq,
You are an intelligent guy. raina doesn't even have kn.
Did you even know that? Others------before you post, read some posts first. I know you all aren't professionals, but I am. No teasing or sarcasm here.
This Forum makes much sense to me. In fact I'm a posting friend of yours cq in disquise. You never asked me what I did?
This is some serious stuff here with raina. Even whether she realises it or not.
Maybe' Katie' could back me up. Have you been following what's been going on?
Pls, all, be more sensitive.
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 20:40:36 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: I beg
Subject: were you referring to me??
Message:
First, I am Katie H. the soil scientist, not Katie D. the therapist (she always posts as KM Darling, anyway). So I'm not qualified to give opinions on someone else's mental health. Also, I haven't been on the forum that much lately, so I haven't read very many of Raina's posts (Hi, Raina!). I will say the following, though:

1. Personal talk about possible death or suicide always bothers me. A very close premie friend of mine killed himself in 1994 - which is how I got involved with this forum in the first place. I have had a few other aquaintances that killed themselves, plus my mom made two serious attempts. So it is scary, and if someone brings death or suicide up in a way that seems that they might be thinking about it, I always try to clarify what they mean.

2. I have no problem with people taking SSRI's (like Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil). They have helped me, people in my family (we ALL have OCD problems), and some of my closest friends. Unfortunately, there is still a stigma attached to these drugs, and 'why don't you take a Prozac?' is still used as an insult by people who have no idea what these drugs really do (and who are ignorant of their mode of action).

Also, I don't see these SSRI's as a panacea for all ills. I have had really bad reactions (ranging from becoming more depressed, to feeling no emotions at all, to feeling like I was on acid) to some of these drugs. Reactions to each drug vary, depending on the person. I advise anyone who thinks that these drugs might help them to go to a psychiatrist or a COMPETENT physician - in other words, someone who won't just write you a prescription, but will talk to you, do follow-up, and see that you get some talk therapy along with the drugs.

Just my opinion, as always!

Take care -
Katie

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 20:36:25 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: 'I beg'
Subject: to differ (Katie-out there?)
Message:
you say 'Paxil,Prozac,etc,etc are a gift from above.'

Professional? Sounds more like you have an axe to grind. Especially when you infer that not having the 'Knowledge' implies lesser intelligence.

So Raina's posts sound psychotic to you? Well, do some research yourself and read mine from last September. You'd say I was certifiable.

What's so wrong in allowing the possibility of a breakthrough to happen, rather than the breakdown that you apparently expect?

It's lack of communication that causes many of today's ills. Allow the likes of us a chance to work it out (with or without a pencil) before prescribing your poisons, Mr/Mrs anonymous 'professional'. This just might be the first chance in a long time that Raina's had to speak freely.

(you say I know you?)

And your 'please all - be more sensitive' just makes me wish you'd have the courage to try those soul-destroying drugs you (if you ARE a professional psychiatrist/psychologist, as you imply) so freely prescribe - but on YOURSELF.

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 21:18:21 (GMT)
From: Hey,
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: to differ (Katie-out there?)
Message:
what the heck got into you, cq? What ax to grind?
There was no inference of lesser intelligence what-so-ever. Just the lack of years of damage done by being an actual premie.
Allowing a possibility for a breakthrough? - wouldn't that be nice - but with the harshness here at times and she has gotten her share - I'm afraid for her.
Psychotic - who said anything about psychotic?
And 'soul-destroying drugs'? Paxil is far from soul-destroying,cq
sorry to have touched a nerve. Don't know why it did.
Hey, anyone on paxil or any serotonin balancing pills. I need help here.
This is why I don't tell anyone what I do. PS,I'm not an MD.Hate talking shop. Just a counselor. Ever have your serotonin off balance - it's helllll.
It's like balancing your blood-sugar - and getting back on keel.
Far from soul-destroying.
Hey,I didn't say I was good at what I do. I can just see signs of trouble.
Oh, and I am on a serotonin balancing drug. I'm slowly getting off now. Take it every 3 days instead of everyday. They have done some talks on 20/20 type shows saying they don't know long term affects. Mainly prozac.
I know what helll is. And then the reversal. The depression,compulsions it's helll. Trust me.
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 15:40:17 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Hey,
Subject: charcater assasins
Message:
the next time you (so seriously) casually, and carelessly call anyone crazy? you should consider it the same as peeing on their leg........leaving them, undeserving of your slander and smelling like (YOUR) pee...FORCED to unrobe. Are we a budding rapist Hey?

just what are you really up to? what are you trying to keep me a part from? is it possible YOU could be the biggest nut job of all in forum V? worried that your own little 'micro-cult'-in the works clubhouse hierarchy is somehow threatened? i, myself never even played games like that when i was a kid!

it's always the same shit isn't it? maharaji or not....

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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 20:13:28 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: 'same shit isn't it? maharaji or not....'
Message:
it's always the same shit isn't it? maharaji or not....'

Couldn't agree with you more! Thanks for having the balls to say it. Of course this is not absolute, but I have noticed that many seem to think that they are 'superior' for having received 'k', and this is still true of some of the exes, except that now they are even superior to premies! (Private club/in-crowd/religious 'culture' mentality) I've been through a number of rounds of this in the last two months from both sides as a non-anything. I haven't even been an aspirant to anything. I found my way here trying to understand what a premie e-mail friend was all about.

Stonor

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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 23:34:49 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: 'same shit isn't it? maharaji or not....'
Message:
ya-it's this way everywhere i guess...life in general etc...

it's funny to imagine maharaji hiding behind the log-in names here etc.....how could he resist?
unless of course he really is the self-imprisoned asshole people here are convinced he is?

imagine if JIM is really maharji!
(just kidding JIM)

I do feel badly for what some of the people say they were subjected to...but i've always seen all religion that way...i remember being 6 years old and watching people in a Baptist church freakin' and cryin' and all that shit...falling on their knees in these dramatic moments singing 'Just As I Am'.......... it scared the shit out of me! i mean you either feel the bullshit or you don't(?)....i could see these desperate people were just loosing it... even as a very young kid

....so what excuse does an adult have? it's the safety in numbers crap partly....people buy into it...the catholic church is most notorious for that....and then all the little cliques and competition on top of that! forget it!...

but when i allowed myself that vulnerability as an adult (with this shit)...i realized that it's a vital thing...something that maybe needs to happen? a surrender to something? (i am pretty sure about this)...that's why religion is such a business though......but anyway-beyond that if you surrender to something that really CAN keep it's promises...it's empowering....but if you're made to feel foolish and let down.....it's like an emotional rape i guess?

i may sound a lot more smug than i mean to...because anyone could be tricked and lied to...i don't know what horrors some people were subjected to.... but if maharaji was only about 10 years old himself! it's not like he could have been taking hostages!

that's why i blame myself for my own vulnerability when i did fall into 'aspirant' mode for a while...because in all honesty i never heard maharji say all the stuff he used to say (so i've heard others say that is)....and if there is any creed or dogma worth devoting one's life to-it would be FIRST HAND INFORMATION ONLY thankyou very much....or as close to that as possible...

i don't have balls....i'm just lost and not scared at the same time....but i am sad! (boo hoo)

phuc phuc phuc! people suk suk suk!


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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 01:52:59 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: 'same shit isn't it? maharaji or not....'
Message:
Hi Raina,

Good to hear from you! I was never exposed to the Baptist thing, but I sure didn't take well to church dogma, even if I did win a couple of books in a Bible exam. I've always felt that there was some truth in all religions (behind or outside of the big business and hypocrisy - (Money is the root of all evil?), but that somehow it has been distorted. As I've grown older, I've learned a lot more about the 'why', and I'm still learning! I haven't looked for (or at least learned not to expect) promises that would be kept from other people , but have tried to keep mine.

I've always been looking for Truth since I was a child, and I finally decided that if God is , then God can teach me what I need to know through whatever means I need to learn, and this definitely includes the choices I make. It's been a rocky ride with no one to share it with, but I've read extensively, do yoga and meditation, attended various 'introductory lectures' - not to forget some rather extreme life experiences - and learned from all.

and if there is any creed or dogma worth devoting one's life to-it would be FIRST HAND INFORMATION ONLY thankyou very much....or as close to that as possible...

Yes, that's something like it!

i may sound a lot more smug than i mean to...because anyone could be tricked and lied to...i don't know what horrors some people were subjected to.... but if maharaji was only about 10 years old himself! it's not like he could have been taking hostages!

I guess you missed my fiasco or misunderstanding a week or so ago. I've been working on a response to post to at least 4 people since then. But yes, we are all vulnerable at times and it's hard to know how we would have reacted in someone else's context, but also yes, they made their own choices - not that that at all excuses any type of seductive calculating manipulation of fellow human beings. I would not like to be m when he meets 'God,' and I do believe that he, and others like him, have enslaved thousands of people in the name of 'God' (on how many levels??!!). It's much worse than emotional rape, but rape is definitely an operative word here. I believe that this site is doing good work , and I'm sure that like myself, if you spend any amount of time here, you will see that more and more.

It takes a lot of balls to be really human, and open about it, even anonymously on a forum like this.

But you know, although it can be hard some days, I always find some people who don't 'suk,' even if only through reading, and it renews my hope. Most people wouldn't suk if they were allowed to grow up without all of the trips that our CULTures inculcate us with from an early age - probably not even m! And usually only parts of us suk (and I know that from personal experience, at least I hope so in my case!!

Forgive me for asking, and there's no need to answer, but what part of the world do you come from and what kind of work do you do? (maybe you've already mentioned it somewhere) I live in Montreal, and I'm a teacher.

I've been through some pretty harrowing 'downward' spirals myself, but they've all proven to be non-permanent! What has kept you going through life without something like m's trip?

Stonor

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 04:03:58 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: always the target
Message:
re: people suck....

for some reason, I'm ALWAYS willing to trust again, and again..even though I have been so completely screwed over EVERY time I do meet someone who seems 'not to suck'...

btw-although i am guarded about a lot of things...i've not been anonymous at all....i think part of the reason i've used my real name is because i'd be curious to hear from people who i may have actually met etc....

i've never even been in a chat-room before (passed thru once or twice) but this is a first for me...i have a URL but i'm hesitant to give it out....


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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:05:32 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: stonor770@netscape.net
To: raina
Subject: always the target
Message:
I'm always willing to trust people again, but I do take into consideration that although they might mean well, they may 'flip.' About 15 years ago, I gave four years of my time and money, energy and more helping someone out of a very serious situation. Before I did it, I had it firmly in my mind that I could not expect anything from this person for it, and a good thing I did; he not only didn't 'appreciate' it, but denied my role in helping him and even tried to blame me for his predicament after he was out of it. Nonetheless, I did gain a great deal from the experience, as I had expected.

This is the only 'chatroom' I've been in as well, except for the Anything Goes Forum next door on occasion. And although it may not be an 'easy' one, as someone said recently, I think it is probably more 'real' than most. I've found the 'forum/agora/chatroom' medium very interesting in terms of learning about people and myself. In the real world you can't step back and 'sleep on it' when you are confronted with a challenging interaction. Also of interest is that you don't generally have any visual input influencing your reaction (ie. appearance, size, gender), but that the 'tone of voice' comes through quite clearly in many cases. it certainly is a good way to explore issues of 'trust in people', as there is virtually no physical/real world impact. This was of particular relevance to me, because I have been recovering from 5 years of verbal/psychological abuse. (At one point a year or two ago, I was having a fear reaction to just about ALL men, and I don't trust women as much as I used to either.)

I will go back and read more of your posts when I have a bit more time.

Stonor

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:12:58 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: tone of voice
Message:
yes about the tone of voice-but also no....
we realy hear our own inflections, and the slightest differences
are really enormous half the time....

EXACTLY! about the 'flip' descripition of people's jekly hyde thing....
always right?

so, sadly, i always expect it.....and it does show eventually....so weird....

hard to think of a fast to the pt example but it's like this for me (in nutshell):

a few years ago (1995 actually) i was so broke...i find a babysitting job in the local
classifieds.....
from the moment i stepped in the door insanity! (but i was broke etc...so i rationalized that 'maybe i could just stay calm and even help them in the end' kind of thinking you know?

The first thing the woman asked me to do was to wash my hands. So, being polite, I fake a smile and rinse my hands in the kitchen sink in front of her.....but then she says 'No! Would you mind using warm water and soap?' she goes on to explain her phobia etc.........

this job lasted about 2 weeks (her husband was a psychologist go figure)......

can you get an idea of the misery? and this was pretty much how i spent this most crucial decade of my life! stupid jobs with inept crazy people...

i didn't blame M...it just seemed very clear to me that 'trust' with people had to do with money-period....and because i had none-it mad people very uncomfortable....(like i'm more likely to raid their jewelry box etc)

for example, when i went to LA (12/89)...the plane ticket was given to me-and i only had about $10 to my name (which was borrowed from a high school friend etc).........at one point i stayed with other HS friends in LA ....Jessica and Chris.....but because this insane jealousy thing came up with Jessica I had to leave! and had no where to live! friends!! ya right! she was a lawyer with a big house! he was her junky lame musician househusband....people try to drag you into their secret psychosis world when you actually 'move in' !.....

this happened so often...but because something magically ALWAYS came thru...i enjoyed the adventure as best i could- and looked forward to making money soon enough etc....

but all my energy was instead turned into pointless petty disagreement that stemmed from people's own fear of seeing ME w/o money-it's so hard to explain ..........

like I would play music at 'The Gaslight' (?)in LA, and the manager their very kindly invited me to stay at his place-he was a doll (not at all about sex or that sort of thing)....we became very good friends that first week....I didn't eat much...so i wasn't really being a mooch at all...but when I asked him for 25 cents (i was short for a slice of pizza)... he said 'WHAT!' you don't have any money! and EVERYTHING changed even tho i hadn't you know? the idea of what that COULD mean SCARED him! so he started lecturing me all this bullshit (i left needless to say...)

this sort of thing takes a toll....this is just one of many like stories.... (i'll spare you)
such a big part of my life-reduced to scrapping! and when i had SO much to offer....i'm the best! but people need to be 'properly' introduced otherwise they write you off (and just don't tell you).......even tho they pretend to be 'free' spirits etc...................shit i was trying to write this as quickly as possible........

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:07:48 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: How bad was it?
Message:
This was of particular relevance to me, because I have been recovering from 5 years of verbal/psychological abuse.

Funny, I remember a time when the 'a' word meant something. Like 'abuse' was something really, REALLY bad. Now it seems almost analogous with 'past'. You know, my 'past' relationship becomes my 'abusive' relationship?

Now I'm not saying that your case was like that. I'm just asking. Did he swear at you? Call you names? Laugh at you? Just how bad was it?

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 20:52:34 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Verbal abuse
Message:
I think verbal abuse can be REALLY REALLY bad. For example, I was not physically (except for a couple of times) or sexually abused (overtly) when I was a child, but I was constantly verbally abused by both my parents. Try growing up hearing that you're a 'bitch' (mom), a 'dumb broad' (dad), 'disgusting' (dad), 'selfish' (mom), etc. etc. etc. all the time. In my experience, verbal abuse that triggers things from when I was a child - in other words, people saying things to me that were similar to the things my parents said to me - is extremely painful. And that's just the things they SAID - some of the things they implied by the way they treated me were much worse.

In a perfect world, I suppose we'd all go to therapy and get over these things and not take them personally, and so forth. Unfortunately, the world is not perfect, and neither am I, and getting called names and being told I'm a bad person still really hurts. So I sympathize with Stonor.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:23:57 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Geez, Katie, I didn't realize it was THAT bad
Message:
They called you 'selfish'? And 'bad'? 'Disgusting' even? Holy shit. That does sound terrible.

And what'd you ever call them?

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:45:47 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, you don't get it
Message:
I'm not talking about when I was a teenager - I'm talking about when I was really young - like pre-school age, and on and on since then. Obviously this never happened to you, or you wouldn't be minimizing it now.

What did I call them? Mommy and Daddy.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:49:32 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Fuck you Heller you rotten piece of shit (nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 02:04:25 (GMT)
From: Fuck you Heller
Email: None
To: Heller the piece of shit
Subject: And I REALLY mean it for your post to Katie...
Message:
You rotten sociopathic fucking piece of shit smegma breath fucking asshole. (TM)
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 17:26:17 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: How bad was it?
Message:
So bad that I'm shaking and tears have come to my eyes. I might try to go into it another time if you really want to know. (and why?)

The worst was not a number of 'bad' relationships, but a student I had in my class for a few weeks, who stayed in my life for five years, and is still 'here' now. I think I've talked about it before, but I don't like to keep dredging it up, and I prefer to get on with my life. 'They' have sucked enough of my time and energy already.

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:46:18 (GMT)
From: rAiNa
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Bloody Abuse vs. Mentally fucked with
Message:
of course you've contemplated the seriousness of one lie in a persons life etc?
to the point of being 'misled'...and that lie ending up ruining your life down the road.
no matter how subtle, a lie is a mini-murder, and we know how serious that is? i think.

hi JIM!-
what are we talking about here?

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 22:14:47 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: rAiNa
Subject: No, that wasn't it in the last five years . . .
Message:
Stop projecting! ;-)

No 'boy'friend/sexual relationship for five years - not a lie, although lying seems to be highly operational in 'sexual' relationships.

We are are talking about personal terrorism. (Or curiosity about bad things that happen to other people until they happen to you, or not?) Kind of like the m experience, but not of your own choosing or fault. It's called doing your job to protect the 'whole' (class of students) from 'evil' and getting no support, and worse.

Where are we going here Raina, Jim? Oh yes, we're waiting for Jim to respond to my last post.

Hey Raina, are you learning tricks from gErRy?

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:49:16 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: No, that wasn't it in the last five years . . .
Message:
Just a thought about some of this, Stonor. Abuse is about relinquishing control, which can be about opening up inappropriately. You don't owe anyone any explanations here. It's a public place which won't always grant you the respect that you deserve in revealing stuff about yourself.
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:50:51 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: What?????
Message:
If only it were that simple in the REAL world. And I wasn't talking 'just' about this forum.
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 00:02:02 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: I'm gonna be nice to you from now on, Run...
Message:
But that doesn't mean I'm gonna agree with you when I don't.

Just a thought about some of this, Stonor. Abuse is about relinquishing control, which can be about opening up inappropriately.

Where in the world did you get this idea of abuse being about 'relinquishing control? How can a kid relinquish control to a parental abuser when the kid had no control (or power for that matter) to begin with? And one thing that always bugged me about you was your extreme reticence in opening up AT ALL, starting with your decision to be 'runamok.'

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:43:16 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: ya!-gErRy's agreed to be my pimp!
Message:
huh?!
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:45:40 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: my hermaphrodite pimp that is! (nt)
Message:
zxcvbnm,.
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 16:52:08 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: rAiNa
Subject: Watch out with the language, please!
Message:
I know what murder is, Raina and it ain't a lie. It ain't even a major lie just like a lie isn't a 'mini murder'. That kind of nonsense is just mindfuck material.
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:29:24 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: um...
Message:
i was making fun of myself...when i said 'what r we talking about' etc....

But i guess, i feel like i've been so misled, and have had chunks of my life stolen from me
(both bad choices on my part-but deliberate on others etc)...sometimes it feels like i've been murdered....

but you're right -i was getting wacky- sorry

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:31:32 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: jim
Subject: I can't believe I just apologized to you!
Message:
shit!
your ad!
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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 19:52:15 (GMT)
From: In fact
Email: None
To: chris et al
Subject: do some homework
Message:
go back to April 26,2000 when raina first came aboard.Read it all. Relax and take it in. You don't have to be a professional to see...
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 15:11:32 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: I Beg To Differ In fact
Subject: your attempted mindfuc
Message:
(assuming you sincerely believe what u've written-and this isn't a trap i'm falling for)

of course you know I'm going to read your replies to MY post...and so it would be your intention to make me feel that I am being percieved as being SO 'serious'ly crazy by others for the purpose of....?

I honestly cannot imagine anything more sinister. If in fact this is a ploy to test me....well then...that doesn't bother me actually! (much)

But if you really are as maliciously unconscious as you sound in your posts, you should know that I am not at all masochistic. I am only bothering to reply because you need to be disarmed.
...the idea! that you believe you can 'help' people is truly frightening. people like you make maharaji a walk in the park.....

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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 17:19:09 (GMT)
From: disarming
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: your attempted mindfuc
Message:
hi raina. Go out or stay home, whichever matches your lifestyle and get laid. It does wonders. You are wound up tight!
By the way, it's spelled fuck. but you can still do it even if you can't spell it :)
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 23:43:57 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: disarming
Subject: NEW CHINESE RESTAURANT OPENING SOON
Message:
I convinced them to call it PHUK YU. So that everytime you drive by you'll smash your head against your steering wheel saying (to yourself of course) 'God! Why am I such a moron?'
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 18:52:21 (GMT)
From: Well that's
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: your attempted mindfuc
Message:
a relief.

You know that wasn't from me I hope,raina.
I've always known your bark was worse.

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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 15:58:18 (GMT)
From: Well, that's
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: a relieif
Message:
that you're not masochistic. Who can really tell on this forum.
Is it so wrong to be concerned about the harassment you've been getting?
Is it so wrong to suggest (Because I idenitify with your words)
that a simple and easily balanced chemical could be to blame - as easily as balancing blood-sugar? I know for a person not in the field serotonin balancing drugs seem awful. And yet most people say,' What took me so long to finally take them.'
The word crazy is not even in my vocab. You are NOT crazy.
People here seem in general to jump on something they 'think' someone has said and get really upset.
When anyone starts quoting death quotes - I stand up and listen. Is that so wrong? I don't care if it comes from a nursery rhyme.
You've put my mind at ease really.
Thank you at least for that.
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 19:02:51 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Well, that's
Subject: truth be told
Message:
just hearing the words 'serotonin' and 'blood sugar' imbalances rang true to me...
but all the other stuff was out of line.....

when a person has ZERO money, and therefore little control of their life in a lot of ways....dimes and dollars are more the 'wonder drug' than paxil and prozac......

for example my apartment has a cement floor! I have to be careful not to walk to fast! and i haven't the money to 'just move' or to see a doctor about ANY ailments anyway! and the fact that people in my real life treat me EXACTLY as i've been treated here (at times)....makes me look forward to 'the next great adventure'...NOT because I WANT to die....not at all....but there's nothing going on these daze anyway, but a bunch of assholes telling me how to spell the word FUC! (no shit!-when you were someone who inspired 2 Live Crew in 1989 no less! all accusations of 'delusion' aside-just imagine that for a second? the ironic loneliness? the accusations of being 'mad' for NEEDING a little recognition-for survival's sake! perhaps ONLY because a 'jealous' wife or girlfriend felt threatend...people SUC!)

left penniless....to KEEP myself from really going mad....i simply try to figure out how the hell i could have ended up so down and out when i had so much more in mind for myself etc....

i'm resigned to accepting my circumstances because it's just how things have ended up for me....I've never even met one person in my life that has shown me they are who they pretend to be etc.....(i won't get into this...)......

in re-reading some of my posts-i realize i'm not running for any pulitzers....

i gotta go for now -i'm late....

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 23:28:13 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: In fact
Subject: Call Me Crazy but(t)....
Message:
It's so laughable that you repressed morons think I'm asking ANYONE for anything (maybe a manage a trois with bb, cq, and powerman perhaps?)

communication in cyberspace is not (for me) like submitting an article to a national magazine...it's not a painting that is going to be framed and hung in a museum for people to gawk at for centuries etc....it's more like a casual telephone conversation...most of which evaporates into thin air...even though there may be way more 'listeners'/readers, no one is any better at at. So before you try to abusively analyze to death, MY informal sharing of thoughts for your public crucifixtion, you might consider over-dosing on aforementioned drugs for all our sakes?

HOW FUCKING RUDE...is it to talk about someone (a total stranger no less) using old and abused (to the point of being meaningless) psychiatric terminology -as if you have a clue yourself-you and the 'professional' (friendz for hire sweetheart?).....I'm sure you threaten your own mother with polaroids you snuck of her and the family dog when you don't get your way....i know the type....from a distance......dude.

Worry about yourself....

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 18:47:34 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Call Me Crazy but(t)....
Message:
Dear Raina,
Haven't even figured out if you are a friend of a premie, a premie, an aspirant, whatever but I had to comment...

'(maybe a manage a trois with bb, cq, and powerman perhaps?)'
And what, you would watch!? :) If you want to be a part of the festivities, you'd better eliminate one of the male players or change it to manage a quatro! :)
Love,
Robyn

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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 23:57:21 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: is manage a trois only to mean sex?
Message:
ya-that's what you get for being silly....

after i poseted i thought 'oh wait! 1+1+1+1=4! i wonder if anyone will notice!'
it's a good thing i didn't include Jim and GeRY because that would have made 8!
(or more)...

i think i was just taken at that moment by my hero cq at the time for coming to my defense,
and was grateful to bb for remedy advice, and powerman because he was so
fucking funny (the incognito disguise thing i think?)....and i couldn't remember how runomok spelled his name. (feeling sensitive at the time for being called a bad speller!)

doesn't it literally mean simply 'managing 3'?
i guess it is only sexual conotation huh?

but we're all bigger than that aren't we?!

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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 01:55:10 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: is manage a trois only to mean sex?
Message:
Dear Raina,
Well I don't know who you are and I've sensed that you were getting battered but this is funny. :)
Nothing else came to mind but sex! :) Honestly. You must have thought of it too, eh, and gone for it anyway.
If you included Jim and GeRrY you'd have a volital manage... what Jean-Michel? sextett(sp and word choice), that would be fitting, almost a must do. :)
Opps, I almost forgot Run, sounds like you should spread them out instead of taking them on all at once girl! I hope you don't mind, I just realize I may be really upsetting you and I don't mean it that way. My mind just latched on to the humor in it and was rolling.
Also I am a horrific speller so just learn to let it go or spend even more time, fretting and looking words up when you already spend to much time on the net. :) Fuck it, I say!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 01:53:39 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Call Me Crazy but(t)....
Message:
Thanks for the offer Raina, but you dont need two others when
you have me.

JW is highly skilled and warrents consideration!

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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 03:03:05 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: bb! u disappoint me...!
Message:
1) it was a joke
2) it could mean many things...(to 'manage three' people in dialogue)
3) there is no three!
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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 04:30:53 (GMT)
From: blood
Email: None
To: Gilead Ji
Subject: The story I heard was that he slept in train...
Message:
stations and ate salt when necessary as he walked from village to village. In fact that story impressed me deeply when I heard it. Who knows if it is true or not. It was this kind of humble beginning that caused me to think there was something to the knowledge gig. Shri Hans must be doing flip flops in his grave because of the abominations of his children.
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 00:35:22 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: blood
Subject: he slept in train stations and ate salt?
Message:
'he slept in train stations and ate salt'

I would say that's extremely unlikely, especially the stuff
about eating salt. Where would he get the salt from and why
would he eat it? Even if he were begging for food, he
wouldn't have been given salt to eat. And if he did eat salt,
that would just show how nuts he was.

From the Maha's web site:
'I lived in a lovely neighborhood of Dehra Dun with my Father,
mother, stepmother, three elder brothers, and my
half sister in the summers. The household included a
staff of seven to eight people.'

So 7-8 live-in servants, yet he slept in train stations? Sure.
Maybe he slept in train stations when he first got going in
the guru business? I suppose I believed it before, but not now.

Why was his stepmother living in the house? Very strange.
What was going on?

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 14:05:34 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Read all about it...
Message:
When JM's site is back up, read Shri Hans' official biography. There was much opposition to Shri Hans because of his claims to be God incarnate and his dancing around as the embodiment of Krishna. Shri Hans was just one of who-knows-how-many pretenders to the throne.
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 03:29:17 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: 'And then jesus coughed at 5:38am.'
Message:
whenever people become passionate about ANYTHING that is second hand information (or 502nd hand) isn't that a guarantee of it's inaccuracy? (and nothing more than a reflection of what's going on in themselves at the time?)

'eating salt'? um? pure science? just a practical way of avoiding dehydration etc?....if someone eats salt once-the story 50 years later is that he turned salt into fish and loaves etc.....or 'lived on it..' and then they leave out the '...for 6 hours' part.....and after time is left out all together.

if he (shri) once used an example of 'an electrical current on which we are all bulbs' to describe 'the life force of which we all are a part' (sort of thing) and some idiot is suddenly in a hurry to 'connect' by sticking his finger in a nearby socket asap....and dies....there will be at least 33 different versions of 'what happened'.........and if he lives?
........sets up a website in retribution!

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 19:53:12 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: happyheretic@hotmail.com
To: Gilead
Subject: Hans was a fake, too
Message:
Sri Hans was a fake, too.
Read his letter to JFK, for instance.
When he got tired of his first wife, he married another!
M's mother. He was a bigamist.

He was no saint, he abused his followers, gave them electrical shocks by telling them to touch el. chords. He used to hit them with a stick, too. He had the same sadistic streak as his son, perhaps slightly less, but though.

When his guru, Swarupanand, of the Radhasoamis, did not elect him to be his follower, he opened his own shop.

He died in the bathroom, he slipped on a bar of soap. No '...leaving his body in perfect peace'. That's all a lie.

Don't fall for the old fairy tales. There's enough knowledge about him among the exes and on these pages now. He was a fake, 100 %.

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 22:25:53 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: Hans was a fake, too
Message:
I agree and well said.
He yelled his damn fool head off and terrorized people.
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 01:35:14 (GMT)
From: blood
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: no doubt....but a catchy story none the less (nt)
Message:
no text
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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 01:18:33 (GMT)
From: Dave
Email: vpost3@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: All Hell breaking loose again
Message:
This here forum looks like a women's coffee morning compared to what's going on in Hell.

Click here to go to Hell

Those EV guys aren't so smart, you know. So far none of the current high up EV premies I've met have a clue to who I am or who I ever was. I guess I'm just so forgettable.

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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 23:20:42 (GMT)
From: blood
Email: None
To: J-M
Subject: J-M your site is down
Message:
Have been trying to access http://perso.club-internet.fr/jmkahn/darshan_pict.htm off and on all day to get there but it seems to be down.

http://www.club-internet.fr/pagespersos/ seems to be on line but your pages are gone.

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 13:09:47 (GMT)
From: EV-ex
Email: None
To: JM
Subject: JM - EV France shut you down!
Message:
A premie friend in Malibu told me that French premies are bragging today that they shut your site down, by taking legal action against your site for using copyrighted materials.
Time to move offshore?
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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 13:39:43 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: EV-ex
Subject: JM - EV France shut you down!
Message:
They'll have a hard time doing this in the next location !!!

Hahahahaha

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 14:11:43 (GMT)
From: EV-ex
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: JM - EV France shut you down!
Message:
You da man!!
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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 23:31:33 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: blood
Subject: J-M your site is down: I know
Message:
I've emailed my provider, I assume they have problems ....

Maybe some aliens have attacked me ..... haha!!

In that case I'll find a more secure location !!! Don't worry!!


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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 17:45:19 (GMT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: EV's action?
Message:
J-M: Are you aware with any certainty that it was EV which shut you down and why? Have you been served with any legal papers?

If EV did shut you down, I wouldn't be bragging about it. Just what is it on your site that they don't want people reading?

Know It All

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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 03:03:57 (GMT)
From: ex-premie rumors
Email: None
To: Know It All
Subject: We don't really know what happened do we?.
Message:
Sounds as bad here as it used to in the community center and on the phone tree. Let's don't jump to conclusions until we get a report from J-M. Then we will pursue a reasonable, directed courses of action.
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 03:05:43 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: ex-premie rumors
Subject: JM left to France today.... Tomorrow... Nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 00:02:26 (GMT)
From: blood
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: wouldn't put it past 'em to hack you
Message:
Isn't it is unusual to see pages go down and not take the whole server out?
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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 02:34:18 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: blood
Subject: wouldn't put it past 'em to hack you
Message:
Computers' logic is beyond one man's comprehension ....

There could be so many factors, like only some parts of the server down .... faulty hard disks, software bugs, etc ...

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 05:26:08 (GMT)
From: senge
Email: senge@earthlink.net
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Site is down
Message:
Hope is down for good so you have the chance to do something more productive with your time.

Cheers mate!

Senge

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 15:19:53 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: senge
Subject: Site is down
Message:
You mean like watching videos of spiritual drivle, licking snot, and crawling up the divine pyramid of power to the holy lost us feet?

And what do you do with your time that's so 'productive' senge?

Anth the reproductive.

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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 15:12:18 (GMT)
From: blood
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: virus circulating in Europe...reported on yahoo
Message:
Yahoo...tech virus news page
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Date: Thurs, May 04, 2000 at 18:47:39 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: blood
Subject: oops I just posted this up top sorry
Message:
always on top of me.. oh I mean well you know what I mean.
Sorry everyone. I really didn't mean to spam.
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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 22:50:45 (GMT)
From: Enraptured
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Presidents of the Company
Message:
Dear All,

Is it just me or have the National Coordinators now become Presidents of Elan Vital? This has really becime big business and the Presidents are now living it up on the proceeds of the poorer premies who pay for fancy hotel suites and suits.

I don't object to these Presidents living out their middle class dreams but not on the money donated 'to charity' on false pretenses of 'propogation of knowledge'and on top of everything else walking around with a superior air like they got the cream.

I'm beginning to think much injustice has been done.

This stinks,

Enraptured

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 07:35:31 (GMT)
From: James Flynn
Email: not given
To: Enraptured
Subject: Presidents of the Company
Message:
It seems inevitable to me that if Goo Roo Mur Ah Gee wishes to stay in business he is going to have to give his initiators and administrators a piece of the action. Otherwise they are all going to bail or go into business for themselves. Only 'Enlightened' self intrest will keep those who know he is corrupt around. (please forgive the pun)
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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 23:24:29 (GMT)
From: lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Enraptured
Subject: Presidents of the Company
Message:
At some point you have to accept that the 'world of Knowledge' runs exactly the same way as any other organisation.......sucks doesn't it.
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Date: Sat, May 06, 2000 at 09:55:15 (GMT)
From: Are you deluded
Email: None
To: lotus Eater
Subject: GOD, President of the Company!!!??? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 20:33:29 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: How did this animal behavior evolve?
Message:
Those interested in the evolution of animal behavior, see the following link:

CoonDog

What's going on here?

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 05:21:49 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: G
Subject: How did this animal behavior evolve?
Message:
So, that's what you do in your free time, eh? ROFL
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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 21:06:07 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: G
Subject: How did this animal behavior evolve?
Message:
G,
YIKES! :)
When your not with the one you love... :)
Robyn
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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 21:43:55 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Easily explained
Message:
What you may not be able to tell in the photo is that they are both males. The one in drag is from a split-off population found only in the West Village. Ah, those mutant genes, you gotta love em!
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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 22:12:58 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Easily explained
Message:
Dear Way,
Still, when your not with the one you love... :)
Robyn
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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 17:40:48 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Would his best friend tell him?
Message:
Maharaji's doctor was making house calls. In the privacy
of his Malibu mansion, Maharaji confessed to an
embarrassing problem: 'I fart all the time, Doctor Johnson,
but they're soundless, and they have no odour. In fact, since
you've been here, I've farted no less than twenty times. What
can I do?'

'Here's a prescription, Mr Rawat. Take these pills three
times a day for seven days and I'll come back and see you in a week.'

Next week, Dr. Johnson returns, and Maharaji is very angry:
'Doc, I don't know what was in those pills,
but the problem is worse! I'm farting just as much, and
they're still soundless, but now they smell terrible! What do
you have to say for yourself?'

'Calm down, Mr Rawat,' said the doctor soothingly. 'Now
that we've fixed your sinuses, we'll work on your hearing.'

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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 20:27:14 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Dr Q
Subject: Think I'll get a reply, Chris?
Message:
Hey, loved your story, btw. Can I use it?

Here's what I do when I run across a website spouting the glories of the great giver of light out of darkness:

Dear Mr. Ramirez,

I regret to inform you that you have been the victim of cult duping by Mr Prem Rawat aka 'Maharaji.' He is nothing more than a parasitic, sick individual preying on innocent peoples' fears and desires.

I don't know how long you've been in this cult but if you want to know the real truth about Prem Rawat check out www.ex-premie.org.

My sincere and best wishes to you for a complete recovery.

And this one'

Jim, (Caputo, that is)

Sorry to have to break the news to you, but Prem Rawat, aka, 'Maharaji' (great king--sheesh!) is nothing but a money grubbing little fraud. He aint got no special mojo and you've been duped !!!

Read all about it at www.ex-premie.org

Whaddaya tink?

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 16:24:07 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Think I'll get a reply, Chris?
Message:
Hi Gerry,

Can you use that story? Well, I didn’t see any copyright symbol on the version I plagiarised it from, so - why the hell not!

What do I think of your chances of a reply from these people? Blimey. Haven’t a clue. As the old saying goes “suck it and see” (=give it a try).

My guess is that it all depends how long they’ve been under the Maha’s spell. Perhaps a rude awakening might be just what the doctor ordered.

PS. What’s with the weird way you spell gErRy?

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 16:10:03 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Hey!!! I hooked one !!!
Message:
----- Original Message -----
From: Hector Ramirez
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: maharaji

> Gerry,
>
> Please keep ypur pitiful, arrogant and stupid attempt to 'save' me from what I consider the most wonderful thing that happened in my life.
>
> And please, do not send any more unsolicited mail.
>
> -HR
>

To which I replied (of course)

OK HR it's your life. You did have a very prominent link on your very public website asking people to email you, so my sincere message to you wasn't exactly 'unsolicited' now was it? What is it about you cult members that you can't engage in a rational discussion about this 'phenomena?' Oh yeah, it's a cult.

Don't worry, I won't try to 'save' you again with any more email.

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 16:27:42 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Hey!!! I hooked one !!!
Message:
I think he was not completely happy with your letter.

Questions are bad.

Doubts are bad.

M is good.

Love is all its about.

Be a lover. Be blissful.

Unless talking to someone who is not a lover, then, be rude and use derogatory language.

Then be a blissful lover again.

No contradictions here.

All you net people are bad.

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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 20:37:00 (GMT)
From: shy gerry
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: no new thread for me, but breath easier, Melboring
Message:
and that other creep who was *so* concerned about our legal status re defamation:

— The Supreme Court on Monday left intact a ruling that says Internet service providers are not legally and financially liable when someone is defamed in e-mail communications or bulletin board messages.

Not that anyone here is defaming the fat little fucker former gooroo now teacher, master baiter or what ever the fuck he is now.

Hey, it's open season on goober !!!

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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 23:54:50 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: shy gerry
Subject: defaming
Message:
So you reckon we can call this little slushie salesman a fat fuck and not have to worry about ISP's being liable? Good. Hey sevenelevenji, take me to 37th and 15th, make it snappy.
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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 11:43:56 (GMT)
From: A.P.
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Thanks for the laugh (NT)
Message:
ffffffffffff
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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 10:48:30 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: defaming
Message:
It may not be pc to many people here but I must confess 'Sevenelevenji' is the funniest nickname I've seen!
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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 12:24:00 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: pc
Message:
Sorry for those who don't appreciate political incorrectness. What I see this guy, M, doing to people is ludicrous. I've been to Intro videos and aspirants videos and I've gotten up early in the AM to see my friends off to Events. As they were piling in the car one spring morning all they could do was bitch about the shitty rental car they got stuck with, pretend to be in a blissful state and talk about the excitement of going to an event.

I'm standing there drinking my coffee and listening to a cocophany of spring bird songs and watching birds strutting their stuff whilst sitting on branches of newly erupted flower buds. My friends don't see this going on at all.

They come home a couple of days later and tell me that M says 'Get out there and enjoy life, take it all in' whilst in the background is a video of birds sitting on branches of newly erupted flower buds singing their songs. They tell me of the video and how it opened their eyes to the world around them. The same one I absorbed the other day while they hurredly prepared to go see M tell them what it is that is going on around them.

As the days go by, stories of: what an asshole this guy was on the trip and how we'll never take him again; how this guy farts all night in his sleep and how we'll never take him again; how this chick wants to have M's baby and believes one day she will and how we don't want to ever take here again because all she talked about was M.

So, sounds like fun these Events, huh?

If I sound a little un-PC when I speak of M, it is because of what I see this guy doing to my friends. And it is difficult to explain to them that he is not a God, that he is no different than Apu on The Simpsons. A nice enough guy and all, but only human, selling slushies full of colored sugar water.

Now drop me off right here Packy the Hacky, and by the way, 'Is that a zit on your forehead?'

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Date: Wed, May 03, 2000 at 14:29:39 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: pc jondon--LOL LOL LOL
Message:
you are a very funny guy
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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 17:36:44 (GMT)
From: M. Dettmers'inner game
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Nothing could stop me.
Message:
I know I'll go and break-out crying and laughing at the wrong moments. Who wants to bet I'll do it? I'll take all of them bets. Big and small. Who, me, chicken? Don't push me hoping to get an egg. Okay. Where is the next KR? I may shave my head just to look like my favorite Micheal. I'll bring a pizza in. A ghetto-blaster as well. Confettis. A bodyguard on each side. Cards with www.ex-premies.org printed on them. Quiet days are through. War was declared as far as I'm concerned. Do you want me to strip as well? How much can you offer? Have you seen 'The fisher king'? How did you like the drag queen who delivered sing-o-grams? Exactly my type. I can be a freak right out of a freak-show. A nut-case. A schizonoiac and a psychopath as well. All together now: 'All we are saying. Is give me a break.'

Is it still possible to purchase stink bombs. It'd be great during nectar.

I am pretty nasty at the wrong time and will keep my identity secret for now. You'll hear about it. This may very well be my last knowledge review. I hope I get it right this time. Security at the door will be looking for someone weird with 'Micchief' written on his forehead. Does anyone volunteer for the job?

Remember M got the cream pie in 1972. Bill Gates got the same. This is the spirit. They'll call the cops? It don't scare me. I got J for a lawyer. Isn't it J?

That being said, security won't ever be the same until I show-up. I must hurry before they start serving Kool-Aid. My plan is to act before the end of 2000. Does anyone want to pitch-in? I need 4 doorman-looking accomplices to start with. I know this isn't respectful of sincere devotees, but what can I say. I wonder if I could smuggle mices in. I think I can. I know how. About rats? It is possible. The idea is not to appear to have luggage with me. Easy. Ladies purses. I need ladies smugglers as well. Four of them. Please identify where you live.

shit_hit_the_fan@usa.net

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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 19:15:45 (GMT)
From: M. Dettmers'inner game
Email: None
To: M. Dettmers'inner game
Subject: Nothing could stop me.
Message:
I need a fast-running photographer with a quick-charging flash and a doorman-type assistant. These folks always are nicer when they have to smile for a lens.
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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 16:09:47 (GMT)
From: M.Detmers' inner voice
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 16 mm devotional films
Message:
There was a few of them. Who recalls 'Satguru has come' I'd like to see it again. Any hint?
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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 16:13:37 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: M.Detmers' inner voice
Subject: You mean like snuff films for the mind?
Message:
Films where you can actually see the mind being strangled? Yeah, I'd like to get a copy too. For parties mostly.
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Date: Fri, May 05, 2000 at 15:27:21 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Fuck you Heller you piece of shit (nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 16:06:44 (GMT)
From: M. Detmers' inner voice
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What has become of Micheal Detmers these last few
Message:
What has become of Micheal Detmers these last few days. I think he must feel an irrepressible urge to speak before it's too late. I'll take bets on what is to happen next.
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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 22:51:31 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: M. Detmers' inner voice
Subject: Yes, this is a concern.....
Message:
I'm sure Michael is processing a lot of information and feelings about all this, but as time goes on, and he doesn't answer the very basic questions that were put to him on this forum, his credibility is called into question. You can't, on the one hand, profess to want to honestly discuss and deal openly with the issues of his and Maharaji's invovlement in Maharaji's cult, and then, on the other hand split the scene when people ask confronting questions.

Plus, I think Bill's quoting that satsang Michael gave in Rome in 1977, which is one of the more extremely cultish satsangs I can ever recall hearing, but have been very confronting to him. I know it would have been to me.

But, Michael, if you are reading this, please salavage your reputation as someone who wants to deal with the truth, by coming back here and answering our questions. I think it would do you, Michael, a lot of good as well, and I think Michael would get a lot of support here.

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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 23:23:46 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Yes, this is a concern.....
Message:
I havent found anything in his posts to indicate that he feels the least bit like an ex premie.

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Date: Tues, May 02, 2000 at 16:13:55 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: M. Detmers' inner voice
Subject: What has become of Micheal Detmers these last few
Message:
Im about warmed up for my own mike dettmers series.

I have been planing to title it

mike dettmers; the liar issue. part one
part two ect.

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