Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Mon, May 29, 2000 at 21:15:42 (GMT)
From: May 19, 2000 To: May 27, 2000 Page: 2 Of: 5


Douche -:- A new home for Cult Watch? -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:22:54 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- A new home for Cult Watch? -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:16:24 (GMT)
__ __ Douche -:- A new home for Cult Watch? -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:39:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- A new home for Cult Watch? -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:58:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Douche -:- A new home for Cult Watch? -:- Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 16:05:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Katie ? I've got something together online! -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:19:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Sheesh, you're fast, J-M! -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:23:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Yeah .... check the last update !! (nt) -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:39:07 (GMT)

Angry -:- 5 Minute Knowledge Review -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 13:13:31 (GMT)

Send letters -:- and email to media -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 12:14:05 (GMT)
__ raina -:- so you can be bombarded with SPAM (nt) -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 13:50:30 (GMT)
__ __ U A so smart -:- UHH!! (nt) -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 23:03:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ raina -:- UHH!! (nt) -:- Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 00:40:21 (GMT)
__ __ hamzen -:- I never had you down for a premie but.....(nt) -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 19:27:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ raina -:- baby i don't get down for anyone -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 21:56:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ raina -:- +will resent u 4ever 4 making me write that! (nt) -:- Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 01:16:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Come off it raina, that's tedious -:- Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 01:56:21 (GMT)
__ GAC -:- email to Electronic Civil Liberties Groups -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 13:49:47 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- The lawyers are going to make a lot of dollars -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:18:57 (GMT)

Big Fat M -:- Maharaji back in Miami -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 11:15:30 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- discussing with ex-sciento whose sites have been -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 09:37:57 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Here's how it's going to backfire on EV -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:14:38 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- Here's how it's going to backfire on EV -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:17:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Katie? -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:44:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- J-M? Call for volunteers? -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:56:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Daneane -:- Parameters? -:- Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 00:42:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Parameters? -:- Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 00:59:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- JM's email address -:- Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 03:57:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- JM's email address -:- Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 04:27:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Daneane -:- Katie - it's done.(nt) -:- Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 01:07:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- no hurry, but did you get my email? (ot) -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:07:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- no hurry, but did you get my email? (ot) -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:16:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- I will resend it to you (nt) -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:50:35 (GMT)

Angry -:- Question for Ex-Ashram Premies -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 05:00:09 (GMT)
__ ex mug -:- Question for Ex-Ashram Premies -:- Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 13:32:57 (GMT)
__ Angry -:- Thanks Toby and JW (nt) -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 20:01:14 (GMT)
__ __ raina -:- i miss my dog -:- Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 01:19:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Barbara Cartland -:- Miss Fucking Fugue 2000. Go Away. nt -:- Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 06:23:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Barbara Cartland -:- Oh, Go Fuck Your Dog. Who Cares. nt -:- Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 06:01:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ raina -:- A premie gave me the dog....his name was Toby -:- Fri, May 26, 2000 at 00:20:00 (GMT)
__ JW -:- Question for Ex-Ashram Premies -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:54:23 (GMT)
__ Elaine -:- Excellent question!! (nt) -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:37:50 (GMT)
__ on all fours -:- Question for Ex-Ashram Premies -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 09:15:12 (GMT)
__ toby -:- Question for Ex-Ashram Premies -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 09:11:38 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- to Toby re ashrams, etc. -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 23:37:51 (GMT)
__ __ Judge -:- Question for Ex-Ashram Premies -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 09:21:03 (GMT)
__ __ bastard -:- Question for Ex-Ashram Premies -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 09:17:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ Alphonso -:- Question for the judge -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 09:27:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Raymond Chandler -:- What the hell is going on here? -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:45:54 (GMT)

john -:- censorship.what do premies think ? nt -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 00:02:19 (GMT)
__ Micheal's inner game -:- censorship.what do premies think ? nt -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 04:13:31 (GMT)
__ __ JW -:- Correction -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 18:00:45 (GMT)
__ __ if my bro' was trashed o' -:- censorship.what do premies think ? nt -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 09:34:58 (GMT)

An anonymous sympathizer -:- Don't give up y'all! -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 23:51:25 (GMT)
__ Jethro -:- Don't give up y'all! -:- Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 17:47:45 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- I second that emotion. -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 02:06:01 (GMT)

Roger eDrek -:- Quick, before it goes away - The Easter Egg -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 22:31:10 (GMT)
__ dan rather -:- Quick, before it goes away - The Easter Egg -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:16:53 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- The missing corporate records -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:31:03 (GMT)
__ dv -:- Absolutely hilarious! nt -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 01:33:54 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Thanks! Did you find them all? Here's more -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 03:07:32 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Protecting our asses reg EV's threats -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 20:35:52 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Protecting our asses reg EV's threats -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 02:13:16 (GMT)
__ Zelda -:- Is our class action ready yet? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 20:52:17 (GMT)
__ __ raina -:- why black? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 23:35:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ zelda -:- why black? -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 02:52:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ raina -:- live or memorex -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 05:40:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ zelda -:- live or memorex -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 05:58:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ raina -:- the public and tabloids -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 13:48:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ zelda -:- the public and tabloids -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 20:38:45 (GMT)

cq -:- This threat of legal action by Mr Rawat AND EV -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 19:41:54 (GMT)
__ raina -:- ARMY RECRUITER THREAD? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 23:46:13 (GMT)

Nigel -:- Great party game! (semi-off-topic) -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 19:34:59 (GMT)
__ JW -:- Also: Information Overload -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 00:38:18 (GMT)
__ hamzen -:- A rather frivolous example of this was in my -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 19:54:29 (GMT)
__ __ Gregg -:- my guess: -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 20:56:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ hamzen -:- I will answer, but interested to know, how far -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 19:33:46 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- still a little off topic... -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 19:50:36 (GMT)
__ __ hamzen -:- still a little off topic... -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 19:36:30 (GMT)

Roger eDrek -:- Legal action against the House of Maharaji Drek -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 19:29:52 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Legal action against the House of Maharaji Drek -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:06:31 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Brings to mind the Scientologists, eh? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 20:00:16 (GMT)
__ __ Powerman -:- Brings to mind the Scientologists, eh? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 20:51:11 (GMT)
__ __ zelda -:- Brings to mind the Scientologists, eh? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 20:48:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elaine -:- What about Jim H. (nt) -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 00:30:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Zelda -:- What about Jim H. (nt) -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 03:01:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Oooooh, Jim? More coffee, dear? -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 03:17:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ been here too long -:- dynamic duo -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 03:05:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- The Winter of Our Discontent -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 06:10:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- The Winter of Our Discontent -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:14:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Did this site get a letter? -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:20:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Not yet -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:12:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- No email from Ev?? What are we chopped liver -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 20:57:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Not yet -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:19:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- something to think about when you email -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:32:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- something to think about when you email -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:48:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- ok that's all recent so shouldn't take any -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:02:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Uhh, Selene... read this NOW! -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:28:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- no *I'm* fast (just kidding) to Katie and JM -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:49:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Yeah, but I ENVY your writing style! -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:07:23 (GMT)

gErRy -:- Hey dig this !!! -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 19:26:24 (GMT)
__ Happy -:- Hey dig this !!! -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:05:06 (GMT)

GAC -:- Milbank/Rawat Idiot Club -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 16:08:11 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Censorship and Service Providers -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 16:35:29 (GMT)
__ __ GAC -:- Copyright Errata Link -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:22:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Copyright Link -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:50:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ GAC -:- I know what you mean ;-) -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:12:03 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- My call to Bob Jacobs -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 16:30:50 (GMT)
__ __ JW -:- Alison Naidech -- a baby associate -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:44:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ blood -:- copy and paste letter to Alison Naidech -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 23:12:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ deep text -:- copy and paste letter to Alison Naidech -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 02:59:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Going for IT -:- GOOD IDEA!!!! EXES ? nt -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 03:29:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Great letter, blood -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 01:13:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JW -:- Excellent -- Did you send it? If not, please do! -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 01:03:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ blood -:- Alison Naidech...you've got mail -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 01:25:07 (GMT)
__ __ GAC -:- Milbank Associate representing the -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:40:53 (GMT)
__ __ JW -:- I'm Sure Michael Dettmers Knows Jacobs and Alison. -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:24:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ GAC -:- I'm Sure Michael Dettmers Knows Jacobs and Alison. -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:08:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JW -:- Is AMNEX, related to AMTEXT???? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:27:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ DEEP TEXT -:- Is AMNEX, related to AMTEXT???? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 22:53:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ GAC -:- Is AMNEX, related to AMTEXT???? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:40:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JW -:- Thanks, know anything about it???? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:45:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ GAC -:- Thanks, know anything about it???? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 20:23:11 (GMT)

Katie -:- M Video giveaway, redux -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 14:08:07 (GMT)
__ Ged -:- M Video giveaway, redux -:- Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 14:36:01 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- Wonder if British exes have videos to dispose of? -:- Fri, May 26, 2000 at 01:15:41 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Lipstick traces -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 14:13:16 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- whew! thanks for adding that -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 15:16:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Lipstick's traces? foolish things, take two ... -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:56:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- nice cq why not joke about my friend who -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 04:23:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Yeeeowwwwww - I must have deserved that. -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:08:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- let me try another explanation -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:11:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- message received. (nt) -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:44:27 (GMT)

Scott T. -:- completely, totally, and absolutely off topic -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 13:12:08 (GMT)
__ dv -:- Try Top Priority- I can e-mail to you. -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 01:13:20 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- Try Top Priority- I can e-mail to you. -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:48:47 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- completely, totally, and absolutely off topic -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 13:37:05 (GMT)
__ __ Helen -:- caveman only need eat sleep hunt-- -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:36:16 (GMT)
__ __ Daneane -:- completely, totally, and absolutely off topic -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 15:54:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ JW -:- completely, totally, and absolutely off topic -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:37:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Palm Pilot, absolutely off topic -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:53:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Palm Pilot, absolutely off topic -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 21:01:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- completely, totally, and absolutely off topic -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 16:34:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Daneane -:- Windoze?? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:36:35 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- completely, totally, and absolutely off topic -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 14:14:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- completely, totally, and absolutely off topic -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 15:18:04 (GMT)

raina -:- Do you think George Soros and Maharji ever hang? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 05:38:35 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- Personally, I like to see both hang. nt -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 15:25:29 (GMT)
__ __ raina -:- but only after they use those torture tools like -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 15:47:29 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- Hang with who? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 11:39:27 (GMT)
__ __ raina -:- It's called a Search Engine.... -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 14:57:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- Pointlessly Dungeonesque? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 16:23:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ raina -:- great word Dungeonesque. nt -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 16:50:24 (GMT)
__ __ George Soros -:- Guru Who? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 12:44:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ George Soros -:- Guru Who? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:29:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ raina -:- what makes people want to destroy each other? -:- Wed, May 24, 2000 at 01:55:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ raiba -:- Guru Who? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 14:40:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- hope that cold gets better ... Raiba (nt) -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:54:17 (GMT)
__ __ Angry -:- Take no Quantum leaps at this time!(nt) -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 12:12:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ raina -:- in which direction? -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 14:59:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- It's the highs and lows U need 2 watch out for(nt) -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 19:19:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ raina -:- i meant in a 360 compass type all over kind of nt -:- Tues, May 23, 2000 at 23:42:34 (GMT)


Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:22:54 (GMT)
From: Douche
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A new home for Cult Watch?
Message:
Like many other forum writers, I can't imagine that BigM's lawyers are really going to sue me for putting a few old photographs on the Geocities site (I assume it's these they're claiming copyright over). They appeared all over the place - on posters, leaflets and magazines - 20+ years ago, without any copyright notice and well before the time of Elan Vital.

But since Geocities has taken the easy route of simply pulling the plug, I'd quite like to find a more friendly home for the old Cult Watch site. Does anyone know of some other place I could park the site that would be prepared to ignore such letters from the legal fraternity?

David

P.S. I have emailed Ms Naidech asking for details of exactly what material they're claiming infringes BigM's copyright, and I'll let you know if I get any response (but I'm not holding my breath).

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:16:24 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Douche
Subject: A new home for Cult Watch?
Message:
Hi David -
You asked
Does anyone know of some other place I could park the site that would be prepared to ignore such letters from the legal fraternity?

Sheesh, if you find one, let us ALL know.

Re Geocities, my guess is that since their sites are free, they have little compunction about pulling the plug (although I do hope you hear from them). The sites where people have actually PAID for server space seem to be a bit more polite about sending warning letters and giving people time to revise their sites.

What did you have on your site that was copyrighted anyway? I can't think of anything off hand.

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:39:30 (GMT)
From: Douche
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: A new home for Cult Watch?
Message:
I'd guess it's those old photographs, Katie. But like you say, Geocities isn't going to want the hassle of dealing with letters from lawyers, so it's hardly surprising they pulled the plug so quickly.

There was a guy, a few years ago, who hosted a site with all kinds of ex-cult stuff on it (he did offer to host the first ex-premie site), but I can't remember his name. I've posted a note on the alt.support.ex-cult newsgroup to see if I can track the guy down.

I haven't taken part in the forum for a while so apologies if I've missed it, but have you - or anyone else you know of - had similar approaches from his lawyers regarding copyright infringement?

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:58:49 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Douche
Subject: A new home for Cult Watch?
Message:
Hi again, David -
Jean-Michel has had letters from lawyers and his web server stating the same thing - the copyright issue - and he really did have EV documents on his site (not very IMPORTANT documents, but I guess EV gets upset when someone publishes their guidelines for children attending programs!) Also, I believe Sir David's 'Truth about Maharaji' Geocities site has been pulled as well, although you may need to contact him to find out. Roger Drek has received warning letters about copyrighted material on 'House of Drek' from his server. We haven't heard anything at ex-premie.org yet, but I'm waiting...

I am not sure who the guy who hosts the multi-cult site is, but my first guess would be Jan Groonveldt (sp?) in Australia. I think there's a link to his site on the 'Links' page of Ex-Premie.org.

BTW, I find it VERY hard to believe that those old photos were copyrighted (by whom, anyway? Divine Light Mission?). Also, I think there possibly could be a certain point where non-credited photos might pass into the public domain (chances are that the person who took those photos is now an ex-premie anyway). I KNOW this happens with TV shows - I can make videos of any TV show (for example, the LOTU video), that is over 15 years old.

Brian suggests that we try and find a web server based in the Cayman Islands :). Just a thought.

Take care, David -
Katie

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Date: Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 16:05:41 (GMT)
From: Douche
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: A new home for Cult Watch?
Message:
An odd coincidence Katie, but I've just had an email from Jan Groenveld offering to host the old site in response to my posting on the alt.support.ex-cult newsgroup, which I'll probably take up.

It will be interesting to see if the lawyers decide to take it any further. It may not be quite so easy for them as Jan's site is Australian-based. But if they do, I think we may have to explore that Cayman Islands option!

Best wishes

David

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:19:33 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Katie ? I've got something together online!
Message:
Here !!

EV's attacks exes websites

I guess there is a lot of comments to add ....

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:23:36 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Sheesh, you're fast, J-M!
Message:
Selene just volunteered to do the same thing! Maybe she can help write comments, or add additional material. I'll e-mail her.

Thanks!
Katie

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:39:07 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Yeah .... check the last update !! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 13:13:31 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 5 Minute Knowledge Review
Message:
Am I satisfied that K and M have met or exceeded my expectations(come on, you know you had them!)or have I been waiting many years to be fulfilled-trying to figure out what I can do better?

Do others seemed to have achieved the promise? Think about those you know beyond the Satsang hall.

Is this journey special or is it just a cult? Go to your favorite search engine and check out cults. If you don't check out cults, you are in a cult because your natural thirst for the truth has been stifled.

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 12:14:05 (GMT)
From: Send letters
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: and email to media
Message:
TO CONTACT 20/20

http://ABCNEWS.GO.COM/onair/Email.html

TO CONTACT DATELINE

Send Story Suggestions to

Dateline NBC 30 Rockerfeller Plaza
New York, NY 10112

TO CONTACT 60 MINUTES OR 48 HOURS

go to www.cbs.com
Click on the feedback button chose your show and click on suggestion.

THATS ALL FOLKS............START SENDING THOSE LETTERS AND EMAILS

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 13:50:30 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Send letters
Subject: so you can be bombarded with SPAM (nt)
Message:
hjk
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 23:03:27 (GMT)
From: U A so smart
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: UHH!! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 00:40:21 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: U A so smart
Subject: UHH!! (nt)
Message:
i watched a seven year old today laughing his head off
while clicking on diff farting sounds from kirk to whatever...
he was in absolute heaven....

don't get me wrong i was laughing too...
yes it's there for all.....and there are a lot of us....

spam bam thankyou mam....

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 19:27:12 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: I never had you down for a premie but.....(nt)
Message:
c
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 21:56:36 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: baby i don't get down for anyone
Message:
c?
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Date: Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 01:16:10 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: +will resent u 4ever 4 making me write that! (nt)
Message:
jj
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Date: Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 01:56:21 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Come off it raina, that's tedious
Message:
(1) You wrote that not me, take some responsibility for chrisssakes.

(2) You won't believe me, not that I care that much, but weren't you just playing word games?

Just in case you're being for real, where I come from that phrase is bog standard and means 'I never thought you could be', but you're probably just pissing around again.

You see this is what happens when you play mind and word games, sure entertaining for whoever gets it, but who the fuck has a clue whether it means anything or not?
And when you're being for real or not.

And in the end for fucksake this is vr, without the usual complementary communication clues. If you'd done any information/communication theory, and I'm not having a snide pot at you, or trying to show off, you'd understand the importance of repetition or redundancy as it's called. However tedious it is, it's crucial.

The chances of having flashing and instantaneous communication at the level you 'seem' to want seems to me idealistic in the extreme, sorry you'll probably see that as advice, and then give me even more advice back,

you're no different from anyone else raina, being at the top of the mast is fine, was there for a long time myself, understand why someone ends up there, and chooses to stay there but.......
seeking perfection all the time has one guaranteed result.

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 13:49:47 (GMT)
From: GAC
Email: None
To: Send letters
Subject: email to Electronic Civil Liberties Groups
Message:
I'd also suggest e-mailing the following organizations:

ACLU - Cyber Liberties Site!

UK - Cyber Liberties Site!

Global Internet Liberty Campaign!

Electronic Frontier Foundation!

They would most likely be interested in the text from Milbank and their plaintiff:

The law firm Milbank, Tweed, Hadley and McCloy LLP which is counsel to Elan Vital and Prem Pal Singh Rawat has notified Yahoo! that you are posting content on Yahoo! GeoCities which appears to contain material copyrighted by Elan Vital and Prem Pal Singh Rawat. Elan Vital and Prem Pal Singh Rawat also has notified Yahoo! that it did not authorize any such use of its copyrighted material on http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1710/.

In accordance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we have disabled the material on http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1710/.

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:18:57 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: GAC
Subject: The lawyers are going to make a lot of dollars
Message:
it looks like they're trying the same thing they've done to 'protect' scientology', and that's been costing $ millions to scientology!!

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 11:15:30 (GMT)
From: Big Fat M
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji back in Miami
Message:
****************PRESS RELEASE***********************

I will be attending a knowledge session this coming weekend. Saturday at the Miami Beach Covention Center.

Only those lucky aspirants that have been chosen are allowed to attend.

Expect to spend a full day with me, I need to be sure all of this bullshit sinks in........

I look forward to ruining your life.

Any Questions?

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 09:37:57 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: discussing with ex-sciento whose sites have been
Message:
attacked by scientology and its lawyers.

I'm having a great conversation with ex-scientos on a French newsgroup.

One of these guys' website has been attacked 11 time !!!

His website still host the same documents, plus a lot of even more hot materials!

His website has been reproduced in a magazine's CD, and 80,000 copies of his website distributed for free.

Scientology has finally stopped attacking him.

I'd vote to have the same treatment for EV!

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:14:38 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Here's how it's going to backfire on EV
Message:
The media are very much interested on how some organizations (not only cults) are trying to fight against websites, adds, newsgroups, etc.

The more facts accumulates, the more interesting it becomes, to the point they really love publishing all this - like what they've done in France having a whole anti-scientology website on a net-magazine's CD.

My opinion is that EPO should have detailed articles on every attack, on R. Drek's, mine, including documents and all possible details.

Maybe we could also have another website dedicated to this very issue. The more websites, the better.

We'll then see who's the most stupid cult. Yeah, let's have a cult's contest ....

I just hope EV's not going to quit too quickly!!

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:17:26 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Here's how it's going to backfire on EV
Message:
Hi J-M -
My opinion is that EPO should have detailed articles on every attack, on R. Drek's, mine, including documents and all possible details.

Is there any way you can start getting this stuff together? (I'm not sure how busy you are right now.) IMHO it belongs on EPO - I think the letters from your site removal are already on there.

Thanks,
Katie

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:44:36 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Katie?
Message:
Hi !!!

I haven't read all the posts on F5, but some seemed very interesting, including Blood's JW's Roger's yours Brian's .....

Would you put all this saga together in an article ? maybe Roger or JW or someone else could?

IMHO it belongs on EPO -

Of course it does, and these articles should be on EPO! but why not have one website dedicated to this ?

If the saga unfolds like scientology's, there is a lot going to happen ....

I'm not that busy, but I'd prefer someone else writing the article(s) ...

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:56:37 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: J-M? Call for volunteers?
Message:
Unfortunately, I AM really busy with work right now (although it may not seem like it because I'm spending so much time on the forum!) I'll be working all weekend in the greenhouse, and I also have some EPO business to attend to. I can dig this stuff out of the archives in a week or so, but if someone would like to put it together now, it would be MOST appreciated.

Actually, if someone could just put all the POSTS together and send them to me, I could write the article part. Anyone interested?

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Date: Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 00:42:33 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: Daneaneg@earthlink.net
To: Katie
Subject: Parameters?
Message:
Katie & J-M,

You want all the posts that deal with the censorship of sites starting with J-M's going down? Do you also want all the letters, comments and discussions? I'd imagine only from regular posters?

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Date: Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 00:59:32 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Parameters?
Message:
Hi Daneane -
J-M's already got a lot of it on line (the guy is fast! The state troopers call him 'leadfoot lightning' here in the South.)

Here is the link: http://perso.club-internet.fr/jmkahn/index.html

I would tell you to e-mail him for further instructions - I'm sure he can use commentary, fleshing out, etc., but I'm embarassed to say that I don't have his e-mail address here with me. Will find it and post it ASAP.

Thanks!
Katie

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Date: Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 03:57:20 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: JM's email address
Message:
Hi Katie!!!

Here is JM's email address: jmkahn@club-internet.fr

I volunteer to do whatever I can to help: Mahalard and company went too far. Maybe this was ment to happen. He made a big mistake IMO. The public war just started.

I'm working hard, long hours...I call you tomorrow night: I have to talk to you...teeth, u know? :0

Love,

S

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Date: Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 04:27:58 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: JM's email address
Message:
Hi SB -
Thanks for J-M's e-mail address. I know it's available elsewhere, but I very much appreciate it.

BTW, got your message the other night, and sorry I did not respond. I've been monitoring the news from all over. And, I agree - Mahaha has really screwed up this time.

Hope the 'teeth' are all right - snicker!

Love,
Katie

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Date: Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 01:07:48 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Katie - it's done.(nt)
Message:
Frank Burns eats worms.
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:07:03 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: no hurry, but did you get my email? (ot)
Message:
I don't think I have time either :(
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:16:39 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: no hurry, but did you get my email? (ot)
Message:
When did you send it? I will check. My mailbox is the biggest mess - I have work e-mail and personal e-mail coming in together, and I need to do something about it SOON - I have already missed some important work e-mails.
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:50:35 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: I will resend it to you (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 05:00:09 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Question for Ex-Ashram Premies
Message:
It just occurred to me that I never heard the actual way the closing of the ashrams was presented to you. Did they float a rumor as a trial balloon? Did you just come home from work one night and find out you were on the street? I'm sure somebody did some sweet satsanging to make it sound like you were blessed to have the opportunity you now had.

Thanks for any comments and information.

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Date: Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 13:32:57 (GMT)
From: ex mug
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: Question for Ex-Ashram Premies
Message:
I was living at Leeds Ashram and had a part time job as keyboard player for a German Oompah band. Had some initiator staying at
the Ashram and I used to come back from work half sloshed on
lager (part of the work experience :) This was 1982 and as you might have guessed my enthusiasm for Big M and the monastic way of life (haahaa) had started to decrease. Anyhow, the initiator didn't like my attitude and there was a very definite feeling that I was about to get the exit ticket from the Ashram. So I left before they could sack me, and went off to play music and have some fun.
A marvelous time indeed!
This was just before the Ashcans were closed, so I'm not sure how the Leed's one was terminated.
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 20:01:14 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Thanks Toby and JW (nt)
Message:
the rest of you appear to have been intoxicated
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Date: Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 01:19:31 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: i miss my dog
Message:
the fortune it would cost to track him down?
what 2 do what 2 do?
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Date: Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 06:23:00 (GMT)
From: Barbara Cartland
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Miss Fucking Fugue 2000. Go Away. nt
Message:
bb
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Date: Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 06:01:28 (GMT)
From: Barbara Cartland
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Oh, Go Fuck Your Dog. Who Cares. nt
Message:
mm
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Date: Fri, May 26, 2000 at 00:20:00 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Barbara Cartland
Subject: A premie gave me the dog....his name was Toby
Message:
and i was EASING into the subject....wondering about all the CRAZY things that happened to me after being AFFECTED by M......and how after a 'session' with M this total stranger just GAVE me this lovely dog...and well why bother telling the story!

So Barbara...as FASCINATING as your romance posts read......in all seriousness-if i could isolate the puke and snot that your brain swims in....to analyze it....i think i could convince the NEH that i'm onto something....in my research for discovering the cure for suicide.....

it has to do with the kind of HATRED that total strangers display towards each other for NO apparent reason-and how that seems to break down attempts at deeper communication-which of course makes the suicidal person feel even more ALIENATED....and more than that......forward to the afterlife where YOU and people like you will AT LEAST, if nothing else BE GONE.....

see my fury and hatred and anger now is really coming from YOU.....and the more i smell people like you the more i become in touch with 'the killer inside' and i have the urge to join the army. thanx for the murderoud fantasies of you being machine gunned in your face.....

can i get anyone else some coffe?

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:54:23 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: Question for Ex-Ashram Premies
Message:
G has a lot of good information on this subject, and so does Michael Dettmers who told us that he was in favor of closing the ashrams, but apparently wasn't around for the actual closing.

KK, who was in charge of the Pacific region for Maharaji, said Maharaji closed the ashrams because he was afraid they were becomming a financial liability, with premies aging, needing medical care, etc.

So, despite the fact that Maharaji told us for years that the ashrams were a life-long commitment and despite that many people gave up their 20s and the career, education and relationship opportunities that provided, he just closed the ashrams, and the premies in them were stuck with all the debts.

I was around for the purges of the ashram premies beginning around 1981, when people basically had to prove how devoted and surrendered they were in order to stay in the ashrams. It was a frightening experience to a lot of ashram premies, who had ben completely indoctrinated by Maharaji that they were supposed to surrender their lives to him, and that the ashram was the way to do that. So, being required to leave the ashram, was kind of akin to a recognition of failure in being a devotee of Maharaji.

Nevertheless, the ability to bring in money, who you knew, and stuff like that, was often quite determinative of whether someone was allowed to stay, as toby mentioned.

I left the ashram and the cult in March of 1983. I think the ashrams in the USA were closed down later that year. According to G, not much thought or preparation at all went into dealing with the effects that would have on the ashram premies. I don't know what's worse -- that Maharaji just didn't care, or that he knew what he was doing and did it anyway.

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:37:50 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: Excellent question!! (nt)
Message:
om
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 09:15:12 (GMT)
From: on all fours
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: Question for Ex-Ashram Premies
Message:
can we talk?
communicate
transpond?
transcend...
geesh...get a grip.net
your situation is similar 2 my sit.
shalll we proceed inangry or..
may I SUGgest..
a mo' moe fo peaceful way of
dealing w/ the denva health fooooood store..
what?..let's all get angry 'cause the denva healthist
food chain dint' materialize.as per newton/einstein's law o'
gravity.
GRAVITY?
I PERSONALLY dont belive we r flying around the sun
It's more like a twirl...now I AX ya...r twirls 'angry'@twirls.com
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 09:11:38 (GMT)
From: toby
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: Question for Ex-Ashram Premies
Message:
well, before they finally closed down,
a big sorting out had started on how straight you were or
very much important , how much money you would bring in by
your job.
So I was unemployed and didn't get a proper jop because I didn't
have any qualification (I moved in with 18 years and you weren 't
allowed to study or go to school anymore).
So they threw me out.
But this didn't change the fact that the ashrams were not very successfull and shortly after that , the bastard closed them all down.
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 23:37:51 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: toby
Subject: to Toby re ashrams, etc.
Message:
Hi Toby -
[Please ignore the spammer in this thread (a.k.a. the Rapper, and IMHO, a real pain in the ass.)]

I had a very close friend who was probably not real suited to living in the 'real world'. He moved into the ashram, and they took him gladly. He was VERY devoted to M, and also had a lot of practical 'fix-it' type skills, in addition to being an accomplished visual artist. Anyway, I stopped following M shortly after this friend of mine moved into the ashram. I did not keep in touch with him. I regret this very much, but I didn't think that he'd be able to deal with the fact that I'd left Maharaji (he was transferred to another city shortly thereafter). And I also thought that he would be all right in the ashram - in other words, I thought he'd found his place in life.

Anyway, I doubt that this guy ever made much money. He was a high-school drop-out, and as I said, his only skills were practical ones. I suppose he could have been an apartment/retirement home maintenance man (he got along well with people, especially older people, poor people, etc.), but it doesn't sound like that is what the 'sorting out' people were looking for.

So why am I saying all this. Shortly after I started doing a search for Maharaji on the net, I found out this guy had killed himself in 1994. This REALLY bothered me. I have no idea why he did it, or whatever. I just know that he had an incredible amount of potential - potential which was obviously left unfulfilled in his life as an ashram premie. I also feel that Maharaji had made an implicit promise to the ashram premies - they would dedicate their lives to him, and he would take care of them. It makes me VERY angry that Maharaji reneged on this promise - for apparently FINANCIAL considerations.

I still believe that there are many people who, for whatever reasons, are not able to make it in the 'real world'. Most of these people tend to find some kind of niche to make their own way - academia, rural life, artist's colonies, small towns where they are accepted, whatever. I know quite a few of them (although some of them end up homeless, which also bothers me).

However, it REALLY bothers me that my friend did not really have the chance to find his place in the world. He was promised a place IN the ashram, took it in good faith, and then got kicked out. I have asked people who were former ashram dwellers if ashram premies were given help or counseling before being sent out 'in the world', and have not got a single positive response. This makes me very angry.

Toby, I apologize for this long rant in answer to your post. Perhaps you feel that the ashrams were not meant to be, or were non-functional in the form in which they were created - in which case you can skip most of what I have had to say. You can probably tell that your post brought up a lot of feelings in me, and that I wish my friend were still alive.

I hope you are doing well, Toby -
Take care,
Katie

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 09:21:03 (GMT)
From: Judge
Email: None
To: jurie
Subject: Question for Ex-Ashram Premies
Message:
let's have a side bar.
vote one way or another
but ..please..for god's sake
vote..
x
non-x
wanna b x
wanna b non-x
but by any n all means.vote...it's your duty
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 09:17:09 (GMT)
From: bastard
Email: None
To: toby
Subject: Question for Ex-Ashram Premies
Message:
toby?
r u here?
bastard...meaning 'immaculate concept?
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 09:27:32 (GMT)
From: Alphonso
Email: None
To: bastard
Subject: Question for the judge
Message:
that must mean walsh has your identification....
an aside..hbp.risin'
o; me o my..
the words...letters..
r only butt a given by god
and we here...sit and fart ova the very existence we r?
talk 'bout the end of the kali yuga
2001..
spaced out fantasy..
wait my breathers..wait....thx..if ders a next1.com
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:45:54 (GMT)
From: Raymond Chandler
Email: None
To: Alphonso
Subject: What the hell is going on here?
Message:
And who's the broad?
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 00:02:19 (GMT)
From: john
Email: None
To: premies
Subject: censorship.what do premies think ? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 04:13:31 (GMT)
From: Micheal's inner game
Email: None
To: john
Subject: censorship.what do premies think ? nt
Message:
I don't know what premies think of censhorship. Chances are there may be as many ideas on the question as there were premies. As for myself, I am not a premie. My idea wouldn't interest you. However, I think there is room for censorship depending on the context. Noam Chomsky, the world renown american itellectual, activist and linguist, wrote a foreword of a book defending the idea the holocost never took place. From his point of view, if one defend freedom of speech, one must also stand for every freedom of speech. Chomsky is a jew must I add.
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 18:00:45 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Micheal's inner game
Subject: Correction
Message:
Well, right after saying I was avoiding OT, I read this. I need to make a correction:

Chomsky defended the right of a French professor, who was being supressed because of his views, to write and speak his opinion denying the holocaust. Chomsky did not deny the holocaust, and has said publicly that to believe in holocaust revisionism is to deny your humanity, and that the French professor's views were lunacy. Nevertheless, in the name of academic freedom, he defended the right of that professor to say what he believed.

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 09:34:58 (GMT)
From: if my bro' was trashed o'
Email: None
To: Mic in knee
Subject: censorship.what do premies think ? nt
Message:
in front o' the whote universe.
I would personally object.
and know..the intent was explicitely made.
X-plicate.com
no harm no foul..concentrate on respecting
what is respectable..not some dumb ass
donkey in the prarie..
well..on second 'thought'....the smell o' the sand
@summer's/rayne.mite jus' b a pic 2 b...
If he gives u the breath....organization/org//http.html/
then he gave you the breath..
UMMMMMMnnnnnn....oooommmm..aum..//ooommm.be here now breath.hall
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 23:51:25 (GMT)
From: An anonymous sympathizer
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Don't give up y'all!
Message:
So Elan Vital are at last trying to silence the various websites that lampoon or otherwise offer 'alternate' sources of information about Maharaji. It is not altogether unsurprising that they should make some attempt to clear away so-called libelous sites, where they think they have a chance of success without getting into too much of an 'attention-drawing' battle. I don't think they are going to be keen on having a real fight however. Maharaji has had some experience in court with his brother where the judge apparently gave both parties a bit of a ticking off..saying something, by way of summary I believe, to the effect that both of them should be ashamed of themselves, professing to be holy men and bringing their petty squabbles into court etc. (can't rememeber the details - anyone else remember??)
I doubt if M wants any such a repetition.

I get the impression that Elan Vital's initial counter-attack push relies largely on their expectation being correct, that by merely threatening to sue for copyright infringement, and by coming on super-aggressively, to the host service providers, they will encounter no resistance from that quarter and quickly overun the enemy. It would be a pretty safe assumption, as seems to have been proven the case, that those ISPs would quickly 'cut their losses' and choose simply to drop the offending websites rather than have to defend the cause of a particular website,(which they have no interest in) no matter how defendable they may be.

Maybe EV do imagine that they have the clout to actually win some sort of case in court. It beats me. I am all for defending freedom of speech and I am most interested to know what particularly they think is breaching copyright etc. Also I also think they are in a no-win situation since inevitably their attempts to silence Maharaji's critics will surely serve to draw more attention to the issues, and there is much to be judged harshly unfortunately, when all comes out in the wash.

It's a very interesting time for the ex-premie web presence. I am certain that EV's actions will be of more benefit to the ex-premies than to them in the end; notwithstanding that the ex-premie sites have (in all honesty) been originally designed in part to provoke some response from that direction which has historically been as silent as the grave in it's responses to critics.

I think it counts as an ex-premie success to get this latest reaction. One thing is for sure, the movement of ex-premies is definately not going to vanish just because of EV's attempts to suppress them. (Copyright my arse!) They must surely know that too. I am not so sure that their seemingly successful campaign is not, in reality, tinged with some desperation.

I am more confident now, reading of these developments, that the voices of the downtrodden will be duly broadcast more effectively! Some regrouping in a stronger position may be necessary. JM is right that one can surely launch an effectively critical website without breaching copyright. I am all for some serious lampoon, caricature and derision - a la 'Private Eye' magazine; but anyway, the ex-premies seem to me to have some decidedly high moral ground from which to publish, and the crucial information that rightly should be presented, can undoubtedly be offered in such a manner that no-one could argue is illegal.

It would be sensible for ex-premies to present such an attitude and invite a similar reaction again from EV. Then if the ISP drops the site for no good reason, the ISP could possibly be sued!
I don't know much about this. It would be of course be possible, although expensive, to set up an ISP especially for a site, or indeed to seek out and publish via an ISP which is, from the word go, sympathetic to, and prepared to host and defend such material.

David Lane is, historically, one of the more experienced web publishers who has been prepared to stand up to the harassment he has had from those religious groups he has criticised. It may be worth asking his advice, and indeed also, the advice of other anti-cult site-hosting ISP's.

The issue is surely not over the justice of whether one can speak about Maharaji publically- show pictures etc.(surely that is not illegal???) is it not more about who is prepared to stand up to any bullying attempts to silence opposition especially if it is presented in a legal, civilised and unlibelous manner?

One thing I have learned from experiences with local politics in my home-town, is that the thing that people with something to hide fear the most, is publicity. This simple truth was used to good effect by a local man who, in order to persuade the council to do something to the road in which he lived, and having failed consistently to get results through the 'usual' channels, merely mentioned to the councillor concerned that he worked for a television production company who had already shown some interest in making a programme about his street's battle with the council (since it was so inflammatory I suppose). Anyway the council IMMEDIATELY gave in to the proposals!!

Call me cynical but I think that Elan Vital would so much rather co-exist with a relatively innocuous website like this (where former members simply blub quietly on each other's shoulders and occasionally fight amongst themselves) than risk provoking the ex-premies into concertedly contacting, for example, all the television production companies that are currently gagging for material to make independant programmes about.

In the UK, for example, Channel Four alone can show you a directory that lists hundreds of such TV production companies. America must have even more. If even one of these made a documentary entirely about Maharaji (who I am sure qualifies by now as being someone whose effect on the modern world would be of considerable general interest), it could be a life-changing event (no pun intended) for Maharaji, Elan Vital and premies. If I were a truly active ex-premie I would be thinking creativelyalong these lines. But then, I've put it all behind me, 'closure' has closed-in and I must needs get on with my new life and forget the past entirely.

Meanwhilst, those who would continue to perpetrate wicked and RUDE parodies of the Lord, such as the inimitable Drek, David etc., must continue to do so 'underground'- quickly moving from one location to the next, so as to avoid the heavy hand of the LAW.

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Date: Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 17:47:45 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: An anonymous sympathizer
Subject: Don't give up y'all!
Message:
'Maharaji has had some experience in court with his brother where the judge apparently gave both parties a bit of a ticking off..saying something, by way of summary I believe, to the effect that both of them should be ashamed of themselves, professing to be holy men and bringing their petty squabbles into court etc. (can't rememeber the details - anyone else remember??)'

The judge asked bothe of them what they considered the greatest sin.
Satpal said 'jealosy'.
Prempal said 'forgetting the creator'.

The judge said 'You are both wrong, the greatest sin is lying in the name of god'.

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 02:06:01 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: An anonymous sympathizer
Subject: I second that emotion.
Message:
I haven't the time, energy or drive to do anything about Rawat's cult, especially since it seems to be dying off rather nicely on its own. (Jeez, listen to me; I'm going Brit! Too much Internet chat. BTW, check out cupcake.com. I'm hosting Lenin's corpse)

I hang here cuz it's a diversion from work and home. And a chance to share with people with whom I have something in common.

Anyway, thanks for dropping by. Bye, anon. symp.

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 22:31:10 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Quick, before it goes away - The Easter Egg
Message:
Did you know that every good website or software application has an Easter Egg?

Well, Roger's House of Maharaji Drek has an Easter Egg, too. So, in the event we lose the House of M-Drek due to this abuse of legal process by Milbank, Tweed, and Hadley on behalf of Elan Vital and Mr. Prem Rawat, I think that everyone should get the opportunity to see these special Easter Eggs and I will tell you where to find them.

But first, I should warn you that these Easter Eggs may contain offensive and maybe even pornographic material or images that might offend you. If you are one to be offended by such material then don't go there. Please keep in mind, however, that because Maharaji is a Public Figure that such derision through the use of parody and satire is fully protected Free Speech guaranteed by the United States Constitution. And this right has again and again been upheld and affirmed by the Supreme Court no matter how abhorent the satire or parody is.

While some of this material is, indeed, shocking and disgusting, none of it is illegally used and they know that. But they are playing their big hand anyway. Where will their efforts end? What other things will they do because they have tons of money and high priced lawyers and they are protecting their money making machine?

It is unfortunate that our rights as citizens get threatened by those more powerful and those with larger bankrolls through abuse of legal process through the threat of legal action.

To start your Easter Egg hunt goto the House of Maharaji Drek and at the top of the first page click on the Big M on the belly of the M and M candy. Shit, I always thought that I would hear from the attorneys of Mars Candies before I'd hear from Maharaji's lawyers. Once you've clicked here you will be taken to a strange place with strange things to see. To find all the Easter Eggs move your mouse over various objects. Have fun!

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:16:53 (GMT)
From: dan rather
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Quick, before it goes away - The Easter Egg
Message:
roger-do you have any more of the corporate shenanigans for your web site?some of us have been waiting for the completion of that part of your site...
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:31:03 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: dan rather
Subject: The missing corporate records
Message:
Yup, I been a slacker alright.

I was thinking just this morning that I should do something with that stuff. Problem has been that some of it is Word docs and some text in bad shape and I like to pretty things up a bit.

But what the hell! We're running out of time here with the devil breathing down our neck and his high priced dogs of hell nipping at the heels.

Maybe I'll just post them here one by one just to get them on the record.

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 01:33:54 (GMT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Absolutely hilarious! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 03:07:32 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: Thanks! Did you find them all? Here's more
Message:
Jagat Janani Mata Shri Rajeshwari Devi

Param Sant Satgurudev Shri Hans Ji Maharaj

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 20:35:52 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Protecting our asses reg EV's threats
Message:
Will very likely involve some editing work, that's all ......

Just don't publish plain documents, we'll have to add comments here and there, write an introduction to every page,quote the origin of every document and they'll be unhappy !!

They question is still open for the rat's pictures ...

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 02:13:16 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Protecting our asses reg EV's threats
Message:
Hi JM,

What do you mean about his pictures?
TX

SB

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 20:52:17 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Is our class action ready yet?
Message:
As for the photos-a simple balck strip across Mahahaas face would keep the peace.
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 23:35:47 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: why black?
Message:
you don't have to aanswer i was just curious.
and my apologies if this feels to you intrusive intrusive please?

How's that Sir Will?

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 02:52:25 (GMT)
From: zelda
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: why black?
Message:
hello Raina

ahem
i dunno. black came to mind first cause I only have a black and white television and on the crime programs it always comes out black on the screen or wiggling which seems far too fancy for the gru.

the color is important though - so I would leave it to the men to decide that.

(:-0
Zelda

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 05:40:51 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: zelda
Subject: live or memorex
Message:
so would you rather see him tortured live or watch it on TV?
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 05:58:05 (GMT)
From: zelda
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: live or memorex
Message:
My preference is to see negative press in the form of tabloid type articles from the 'ex followers of the boy god'
I like the idea of the publics' memeory getting jogged back to the old days and then slowly update said public on his holdings and slicked up methods of enticing would be followers.

Because I have watched such press slowly build tension till the cult head gets a spokesperson/laefirm to fight back through a libel suit or cpoyright infringement proceedings- it is hilarious how their so called credibility plummets in the eyes of the public.

Actually this letter that the web site people have recieved is a good start. They should go public with it to get the ball rolling. Draw them out is my motto.

This would make sure that Makaka is in the light of day and not hiding

Zelda

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 13:48:30 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: zelda
Subject: the public and tabloids
Message:
do you read 'tabloids' yourself?

would you rely on those members of the public who get their info from the tabloids to make all right with your/the world?

when you say 'hilarious' you mean funny haha?

and when you say 'the public's eyes' and 'the public's memory' do you imagine this as a large controllable entity? like Gigantor with a remote control?

lastly! if you were locked in a windowless room with M for 10 hours what would you do/say to him? what would happen?

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 20:38:45 (GMT)
From: zelda
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: the public and tabloids
Message:
 

do you read 'tabloids' yourself?

would you rely on those members of the public who get their

I meant tabloid style.
I do not read them- but observe that many people do. I consider womens magazines to have a tabloid style. I dont read them either.
age:

info from the tabloids to make all right with your/the world?
I see tabloid style press as a low cost option to eroding (in the minds of a sector of the population) Marajis credibility.)

when you say 'hilarious' you mean funny haha? I mean Ha ha

and when you say 'the public's eyes' and 'the public's memory'
do you imagine this as a large controllable entity? like Gigantor
with a remote control?
Yup. When cult leaders get exposed the public memory is awakened to it for a while. this may not have much effect, but when the guru comes to town, they may have a filter to view his activities through.

lastly! if you were locked in a windowless room with M for 10
hours what would you do/say to him? what would happen?
I dont ever answer this kind of question.

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 19:41:54 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: This threat of legal action by Mr Rawat AND EV
Message:
This threat of legal action by Mr Rawat AND EV (Elan Vital)

- just MIGHT make you think that copyright infringement and loss of royalties (as they're called in the UK) MIGHT just go to prove that Rawat DOES receive some kind of financial recompense from the copyright holders - Elan Vital.

Perhaps the IRS and Charity Commission(UK) might like to hear from you about this.

Yes - you!

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 23:46:13 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: ARMY RECRUITER THREAD?
Message:
kind of over the top no?

this is all getting a bit to ironic...

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 19:34:59 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Great party game! (semi-off-topic)
Message:
The best book I have read this year is 'A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper' by John Allen Paulos. (Don't be put off by title.) It is an easy-to-read book of great, short essays which explain clearly how a poor grasp of maths and probability theory among politicians, the public and newsmen will cause serious distortions in people's perceptions of the world and events going on in it. Some are relevant to issues raised here such as the true risk of being held-up or burgled etc.

Anyway, the following passage - apart from including a great party game you could try - gives a pretty good psychological insight into how it is premies will see 'Maharaji's Grace working in their lives' and similar situations where people will willingly read meaning into random phenomena.

>>>>>

Everyone's heard of the Florida dentist who infected, possibly intentionally, six of his patients with the AIDS virus. An investigation of the story by Stephen Barr in Lear's magazine and an excerpt in the New York Times op-ed in March 1994 revealed a number of lacunae in the case against the dentist. It appears that some, if not all, of the victims had other risk factors that might have exposed them. And the test used to determine whether two strains of the virus are the same is still controversial and not widely accepted. Furthermore, the rate of HIV infection among the dentist's many patients were only slightly higher than the overall rate in the two counties where the patient lived. The dentist himself may have been victim of the irrational fear: induced by the AIDS epidemic.

The philosopher Daniel C. Dennett, in his book Consciousness. Explained, describes a party game that I think provides a somewhat unusual slant on this and other cases in which there is an element of self-fulfilling prophecy. A familiar variant of the game requires that one try to determine by means of yes or no questions an arbitrary number between one and one million…
…In Dennett's more interesting game (which you might want to play if you have a friend you'd like to shed), one person is selected from the group. He will be asked to leave the room and told that, in his absence, one of the other partygoers will relate a recent dream. When the person returns to the room, he will attempt, through a sequence of yes or no questions directed to the group, to accomplish two things: reconstruct the dream and identify whose dream it was.

The punch line is that no one has related any dream. The revellers are instructed to respond either yes or no to the victim's questions according to some arbitrary rule; Dennett suggests having the answers be determined by whether the last letter in the last word of the question is from the beginning or the end of the alphabet. Any rule will do, however, and may be supplemented by a noncontradiction clause stipulating that no answer directly contradict an earlier one.

The surprising result is that the victim, impelled by his own obsessions, often constructs an outlandish and obscene dream in response to the random answers he elicits. He may also think he knows whose dream it was, but then the ruse is revealed to him. Technically the dream has no author, but in a sense the victim himself is. His preoccupations dictate his questions, which, even if answered negatively at first, will frequently receive a positive response in later reformulations. These positive responses are then pursued.

There is a body of experiment that seems to support the thesis that dreams and hallucinations can be explained in part by a variant of this party game. In both phenomena, a person's hypothesis-generating ability is intact, but the ability to test or falsify these hypotheses is impaired by drugs, sensory deprivation, or unconsciousness. The result is a more or less random sequence of 'answers' to the questions posed implicitly during the dream or hallucination. Unencumbered by any critical reality checks, the dreamer or hallucinator can fashion his or her own construction from the random set of answers. A similar argument helps clarify why inane I Ching ambiguous horoscopes seem to many to be so apt. Their aptness is self·provided. In effect, their cryptic obscurity provides a random set ' of 'answers' that the devotee fabricates into something seemingly appropriate and useful. With perhaps a bit more justification, psychologists count on the amorphousness of Rorschach blots to elicit evidence of a persons core concerns.

At the risk of stretching the point, I suppose that a somewhat similar phenomenon takes place for larger groups of people as well. Societies do not posses minds, of course, but in times of crisis-war, stock frenzy, pestilence, riot - they do develop a primitive sort of cohesiveness, a quasi consciousness approaching perhaps that of a very retarded person in a deep, drug·induced stupor. Because of the stress it endures, such a society will have indefinite fears, hopes, or anxieties, and its contact with reality will be tenuous. News reporting during a war or other crisis tends to be, for a variety of reasons, deplorably shoddy. (Recall the coverage of the Gulf War or during the early days of the AIDS crisis.) What news the society does get is vague and generic, allowing ample room for the societal analogue of dreams and hallucinations to develop. Societies without a free press and a literate population are especially vulnerable. A recent example is Guatemala, where peasants have seriously injured Western women they thought were kidnapping their babies. Another is Rwanda, where terrifying rumours and radio broadcasts inflamed and exacerbated an already nightmarish situation.

Ambiguity, randomness, and lack of information in response to obsessive questions and concerns can, on a group level, breed delusions and mirages in the same way that the party game makes an individual concoct his own chimerical fantasy. Informative, skeptical, fastidious reporting is most needed when it's least likely to be forthcoming.

from 'A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper' by John Allen Paulos.

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 00:38:18 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Also: Information Overload
Message:
I did a thesis in college (admittedly many years ago now) that posited several hypotheses about how governments and societies react to international crises. There were theories (decision theory) that part of the reason that threat gets over-emphasized, that the range of options seems to reduce while those of the adversary seem to increase, etc., is information overload. I used the period in 1914, leading up to WWI as the crisis period. Prior to the period leading up to the crises, governments usually received something like 20 or so international communications per day. During that period they increased to almost 200. Old world bureacracy was unable to digest in incoming, often conflicting, information. This likely contributed to an accidental war, which had absolutely no reason to be fought, other than mutual suspicion, lack of information on the one hand, and paranoia and information overload on the other.
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 19:54:29 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: A rather frivolous example of this was in my
Message:
first probability lecture.

Sixty four of us there, the lecturer asks us what are the chances two people in the room have the same birthday,
any non-mathematician answers anyone?

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 20:56:17 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: my guess:
Message:
One in two?
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 19:33:46 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: I will answer, but interested to know, how far
Message:
could you describe the thought processes before answering?
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 19:50:36 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: still a little off topic...
Message:
Yes, sounds like a great game. Maybe I'll try it in one of my classrooms in these last hot high school days...

Reminds me of a story I heard from some one who allegedly witnessed the event...Someone was given the post-hypnotic suggestion that when a certain gesture was given, he was to open an umbrella.

The interesting part, according to my friend, was that when asked why he opened the umbrella, the victim invariably had a (to him, anyway) reasonable explanation for why he opened an umbrella indoors.

The point being we do things in our lives for a variety of usually non-rational 'reasons' and only later make up a story to explain our actions. Then we believe our own story.

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 19:36:30 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: still a little off topic...
Message:
The point being we do things in our lives for a variety of usually non-rational 'reasons' and only later make up a story to explain our actions. Then we believe our own story.

And aren't we & this site the living proof of this!!

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 19:29:52 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Legal action against the House of Maharaji Drek
Message:
I have just receieved an email from my ISP where the Roger's House of Maharaji Drek resides.

The email is as follows:

Greetings.

We received an extremely threatening letter from attorneys representing someone claiming that your website (http://www.oz.net/~drek) infringes on
their copyrights. I need to speak with you ASAP but cannot reach you at the number we have on file, which has been disconnected.

Please call me immediately upon receipt of this message at (xxx)
555-1234. We may have to remove your web site from our server if we cannot work this out quickly, as we cannot afford to be held liable by the copyright holder.

Thank you for your prompt response.

What I am wondering is exactly what copyrighted materials have I infringed upon that fall outside the protected rights of fair use through parody. Obviously, Rawat and Bob Jacobs and Milbank, Tweed, and Hadley are attempting to play legal hardball. Hopefully, this can backfire on them if we can get the press interested in this and can once again get the spotlight of the press aimed at Maharaji.

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:06:31 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Legal action against the House of Maharaji Drek
Message:
Hi Roger -
Good to hear from you, although not on this particular topic {:.
I'm sorry about 'House of Drek' - allthough, unlike Geocities, at least your server was kind enough to write you a letter! Your question about what 'copywrited materials' were used is a good one - I would like to know that, too.

BTW, looks like we're next, unfortunately. Anyway, if there's anything I can do to help support your site, let me know. Ya know the old saying - if we don't hang together, we'll all hang separately. (At least they'll never get their hands on the 'Red Nighty! Ha!)

Hope all's going well with your new job and living situation. Keep in touch.

Take care -
Katie

Sic Semper Tyrannis!

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 20:00:16 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Brings to mind the Scientologists, eh?
Message:
Perhaps the EV lawyers are taking a page from the Scientology rule book. Esp. with the 'extremely threatening' part.

I remember a few years ago in Boulder, the Scientologists got the feds to confiscate one guy's computers. He'd been posting some of their documents, the really wacky stuff about aliens and volcanos -- the stuff you've got to spend tens of thousands of dollars and many years to see legitimately.

If the Scientology lawyers can do this to that poor guy in Boulder, couldn't they do it to this site, too?

Of course, as has been pointed out here, it would be great PR for the exes, and a nightmare for the EV honchos who are trying to purge the images of Maharaji as Krishna from the current paradigm of Guru Lite.

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 20:51:11 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Brings to mind the Scientologists, eh?
Message:
It really hit me just now how truly dishonest Maharaji is. Despite all the evidence I've seen over the past few years, this action by Maharaji's lawyers to hide his claims to be God really seals it for me.

You see, I've had to reckon my much earlier illusions about the Guru Maharaj Ji (from the seventies) with the cold truth that practicing his 'knowledge' really messed me up. Having just seen the Guru in extremely controlled situations, he seemed like a genuinely nice guy. All the nice pictures of him smiling with the hair blowing in the wind and holding his children's hands made me think deep down that he must be an okay guy or God or whatever. And contrasting that with his turnaround from claiming he was God to trying be just a teacher, combined with my realization that his teachings were damaging to me, made me realize he wasn't on the up and up. The anger I felt at just that was enough for me to call him a fucking asshole.

But now, this... well, there's some further level of betrayal I feel; some deeper deception of Maharaji's that didn't quite sink in till now: That he's really been lying and cheating and that he's trying to hide something.

He doesn't want people to know what he said in the past and that he pretended to be God manifest on earth. What a sorry little pathetic fuck the Guru Maharaj Ji is. I suppose whatever intense shame and humiliation visits him in the future, he will really deserve. I guess at that time I'll actually feel embarrassed for him.

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 20:48:54 (GMT)
From: zelda
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Brings to mind the Scientologists, eh?
Message:
I remebember that a spy guy revealed spy connections on his own website and there was a terrific outcry from the spy headquarters.
But his site was visited very often to see what all the fuss was about.
Perhaps you just need to modify the content of your site. IE black strip over mhahahas face- Put L**D of the UniverseShter must be a way that you can modify it so EV cant go ltooo far down legal channels.

But set the timing on the whole process to get as much press out of the thing as you can before aforementioned consequences set in.

This wold be great anti guru propaganda if they do put pressure on you.

Do you have a friendlylawyer on retainer/ex that can draw them out in true Monty Python fashion???

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 00:30:53 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: zelda
Subject: What about Jim H. (nt)
Message:
JIMJIMJIMJIMJIMJIM
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 03:01:49 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: What about Jim H. (nt)
Message:
Of course he comes to mind first. However, I have imaginations of Jim and Drek having long conversations of the phone and meetings in quite cuppachino dens far into the night to talk over such matters,

I assume that Drek and Jim would be on top of any shenenigans.
If not there is a hot shot copyright attorney I can refer them to. If he doesnt settle he doesnt get paid. And he doesnt take cases he cant win.

Jim and Drek would make a great team - but they might not get along for all I know.

But I am not too clued up on where people live and what the forum participants have to do with each other off screen in this category.

anyway our great minds think alike Elaine
Zelda

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 03:17:31 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: Oooooh, Jim? More coffee, dear?
Message:
Whoa! We ain't gonna go there again are we?

Ha ha! I could not resist.

Thanks Zelda, Elaine, et al. Am not sure if I know you or maybe I do. I have to rearrange everybody's face and give them all another name.

Right now, I've been pretty busy taking training here in Silicon Valley where I'm learning network security and some heavy router technology. I'll be heading down to Thousand Oaks pretty soon to apply my new skills at one of the major nationwide backbone providers. Sniff, sniff, root, root.

But hey, this place and everything that has happened and will happen and might never happen - you know, it's just too goddamn funny. It's all too much, too much, too much (I think that's an old Beatle's song, isn't it?)

And me, well, I'm not gonna crack as my old buddy Kurdt Kobain used to say.

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 03:05:45 (GMT)
From: been here too long
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: dynamic duo
Message:
Jim and Drek would make a great team - but they might not get along for all I know.

snicker.

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 06:10:56 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Been here too long
Subject: The Winter of Our Discontent
Message:
Ok so you have been here long.
But would you say that a developement such as EV sending copyright infringement letters to people is a good thing? Or has it happened before? or is of such small consequence that it doesnt warrant our attention?

Is there a small danger of crying wolf syndrome here?

I respect the fact that personal differences may affect the issue - so I am not asking for an answer here- just getting my thoughts down.

Zelda

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:14:50 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: The Winter of Our Discontent
Message:
Hi Zelda -
You wrote:
But would you say that a developement such as EV sending copyright infringement letters to people is a good thing? Or has it happened before? or is of such small consequence that it doesnt warrant our attention?

No, this has not happened before, (thus no 'crying wolf'). It seems like EV now thinks that they've found the 'secret weapon' to shut down the ex-premie sites (which is NOT gonna happen). I don't think it's of little consequence either - in fact, it makes me mad as hell, and I feel that there is going to be a large backlash from it. NOT a good PR move on EV's part, although I suppose that they are trying to please Maharaji, as always. In fact, this site and forum are getting far more attention than before this whole mess started, although readership always goes up after one of M's programs anyway (wonder why - snicker!)

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:20:46 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Did this site get a letter?
Message:
I know JM's did. Dreks's we will hear all about.
But I haven't read about this site.
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:12:42 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Not yet
Message:
but I'm not holding my breath here.

Take care, girl - I hope to get an e-mail to you one of these days. I have been AWFUL about writing/answering e-mail lately.

Love,
Katie

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 20:57:35 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: No email from Ev?? What are we chopped liver
Message:
This site has lots of anti cult matter but does it have much that is copyrighted from the forum administrator?

Arent posters allowed to post what they want without it reflecting on the site coordinatiors?

Are the FA responsible for content on the Links?

I am slightly insulted that you have not recieved notice from EV!

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:19:29 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Not yet
Message:
No problem email when you can. And are you *sure* you want writing lessons from me? :)
Seriously though I will help in any way if this site gets hassled. JM's too.
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:32:02 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: something to think about when you email
Message:
I'm not much at coming up with ideas about all this. Too many things going on at work, etc. But if there is something task specific that I can just 'cookbook' through i.e. I noticed the posts between you and JM for example about putting together stuff from archives etc.. something like that - I'd need specifics, etc. I could help.
Just can't do much detective work. That type of thing.
And I *am* very good at letter writing. Took on the water dept. here a few years ago and WON. and the AZ. water dept. is a bitch as you can well imagine, seeing as how there is no water!
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 16:48:22 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: something to think about when you email
Message:
Hi Selene -
What I would like is just a selection of all the posts that have been posted by the people who have had their ex-premie sites being shut down, particularly the ones that include letters from the ISP's (Roger's, J-M's, David/Douche's, and possibly Sir David's, although I haven't seen posts from him.) Also, Blood's post about the similar problems that Utah Lighthouse has had with the Mormon Church, things like that. You're smart, you'll know what to include. Feel free to organize and make comments. No detective work necessary - just the facts.

I have a lot of greenhouse/dirt work to do this weekend (in fact I should be there RIGHT NOW), and a paper for a conference to review (my co-worker has dyslexia, so I offered to get it in shape for her). Anyway, science calls.

Anyway, I'll e-mail you about some of the other things that are going on. And YES, I do want writing lessons! I want to write fiction some day, and believe me, no one would want to read a novel in my technical writing style (snicker). I put in TOO much, as Raina has pointed out.

BTW, congratulations on taking on the AZ Water Department and winning - that is a BIG deal! I won a major victory over East Ohio Gas in the same way, although I was helped by the fact that they were incredibly disorganized. There are people in this world who believe you can't fight the system, but it's just not true. This is one of the useful things I learned from my parents - along with always submittin denied insurance claims twice (snicker).

Love you -
Katie

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:02:45 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: ok that's all recent so shouldn't take any
Message:
archive searching.
I have to work from about 11 til 3. (tough life huh?)
but I'll email you the stuff later.
Your writing is good. I've always said that. You just need to stop giving a shit about what people think about it.
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:28:19 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Uhh, Selene... read this NOW!
Message:
Hi Selene -
Great minds think alike again. J-M has already got a lot of it on line (the guy is fast! Especially while driving).

Here is the link:
http://perso.club-internet.fr/jmkahn/index.html

Should save you some work, although he needs commentary, and possibly some more stuff about copyrights in general, etc! However, he may have all of this on line before we know it.

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:49:33 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie and JM
Subject: no *I'm* fast (just kidding) to Katie and JM
Message:
This is how I operate at work too! :) I voluteer and then someone does it. ha. works every time. That's true most of the time.
I really do have to go in there unfortunately. taking off right now. I'll email you around 3 and see what's up.
Good work JM!
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 17:07:23 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Yeah, but I ENVY your writing style!
Message:
Guess there's not much that can be done about that, though! Maybe you gotta be born that way?

Anyway, thanks, Selene! I really appreciate you doing this for all of us.

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 19:26:24 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hey dig this !!!
Message:
Listen to what could have been entitled 'Ode to my limp dick premie boyfriend'
Not bad slide playing, either, for a white girl (snicker)
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:05:06 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Hey dig this !!!
Message:
Nice slide - and nice words. Especially the line about giving your old TV to the Maharaji...
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 16:08:11 (GMT)
From: GAC
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Milbank/Rawat Idiot Club
Message:
Only one thing is impossible for God: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet.

Whenever a copyright law is to be made or altered, then the idiots assemble.

Mark Twain: Mark Twain's Notebook,
May 23, 1903

Copyright Errata

In response to:

The law firm Milbank, Tweed, Hadley and McCloy LLP which is counsel to Elan Vital and Prem Pal Singh Rawat has notified Yahoo! that you are posting content on Yahoo! GeoCities which appears to contain material copyrighted by Elan Vital and Prem Pal Singh Rawat. Elan Vital and Prem Pal Singh Rawat also has notified Yahoo! that it did not authorize any such use of its copyrighted material on http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1710/.

In accordance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we have disabled the material on http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1710/.

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 16:35:29 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: GAC
Subject: Censorship and Service Providers
Message:
Strikes me that the onus is on Rawat to inform the Online Service Provider (OSP) exactly which material on the site is infringing copyright. For the whole site to be shut down simply simply because a certain percentage of it infringes copyright might bring a gleam to Mr Rawat's beady eye, but there's no way he could censor original material/discussion about his little scam.

(BTW, GAC, your link to 'copyright errata' wasn't found on my machine).

The following is from http://www.arl.org/info/frn/copy/osp.html:

QUOTE:
Among the elements of the notice and takedown process are the following:

Proper written notification from a copyright owner to an OSP must include:

* the name, address and electronic signature of the complaining party,
* sufficient information to identify the copyrighted work or works,
* the infringing matter and its Internet location,
* a statement by the owner that it has a good faith belief that there is no legal basis for the use of the materials complained of, and
* a statement of the accuracy of the notice and, under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner.

Any misrepresentation of material facts will subject the offending party to claims for damages and attorneys fees.


Good Samaritan Immunity and 'Notice and Put Back.'
If the OSP complies in good faith with the statutory requirements, the new law immunizes it from liability to subscribers and third parties; however, this immunity is conditioned upon affording the affected subscriber notice of the action. If a subscriber files a proper 'counter notice,' attesting to its lawful use of the material, then the OSP must 'promptly' notify the copyright owner and within 14 business days restore the material, unless the matter has been referred to a court. The counter notice must contain these elements:

* The subscriber's name, address, phone number and physical or electronic signature.
* Identification of the material and its location before removal.
* A statement under penalty of perjury that the material was removed by mistake or misidentification.
* Subscriber consent to local federal court jurisdiction, or if overseas, to an appropriate judicial body.

ENDQUOTE

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:22:18 (GMT)
From: GAC
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Copyright Errata Link
Message:
Hi cq,

Here's the address:

http://www.providence.edu/pml/copyright.htm

GAC

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:50:09 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: GAC
Subject: Copyright Link
Message:
Thanks for the address, GAC
(GAC? - sounds like one of those aliens in 'Mars Attacks' - still, if that's your preferred moniker ...)

I do like this quote from the site you gave:

'Fair Use and Higher Education: A Statement of Principle

The concept of fair use and its application in higher education is based on the idea that the fundamental mission of higher education is to advance and disseminate knowledge.'

Hah!

Well, ex-premie.org has been pretty educational for me, and also very helpful in getting rid of the false belief systems that are part and parcel of cult dependency. Perhaps this site CAN claim educational status then!

In which case:

'Educators must use a variety of information formats, learning environments, and teaching methods without unreasonable copyright restrictions to fulfill this mission. They must have the ability to explore, analyze, and exchange information freely and to be able to make creative and balanced fair use of copyrighted works to be effective in their work. '

The irony is that, far from wanting to 'spread the word' (his word, that is), the Maha is now going out of his way to try and close down any site that quotes his message!

Well, he always was a control freak.

Won't stop people seeing him for what he is, though ... in fact ... I have a sneaking suspicion he just might be 'shooting himself in the foot', if you know what I mean.

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:12:03 (GMT)
From: GAC
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: I know what you mean ;-)
Message:
cq,

What a brilliant idea! This is indeed a forum with an eye-opening Educational Purpose.

Hmmmm... can we get ceu's for browsing?

GAC (Not quite an alien from Mars)

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 16:30:50 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: GAC
Subject: My call to Bob Jacobs
Message:
Well I just got off the phone to Bob Jacobs. He told me that he is not a premie and that the only reason that he's a director in various Maharaji-related businesses and the only reason that his firm's handling this matter for Maharaji is that Maharaji's his client. He told me that the offending material, as far as he knows, involves various images of Maharaji, some of which have been altered, as well as cerain passages from various transcribed, copywritten speeches Maharaji's made. He also told me that he's not the lawyer actually handling the file. Her name's Alison Neiditch (sp?). He gave me her local, she's out of town but I left my nubmer and said I wanted to talk with her.

(And this was supposed to be ride-my-exercise-bike time!)

gotta run.

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:44:03 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Alison Naidech -- a baby associate
Message:
Alison got her JD in 1996 and her BA in 1992. She is about 28. Some partner in Milbank, probably Jacobs, is undoubtedly overseeing what she is doing for her client, Prem Pal Singh Rawat. Obviously, if Jacobs is not a premie, he and Alison are being paid by the hour, probably in excess of $300 an hour.

Her email address is anaidech@milbank.com

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 23:12:45 (GMT)
From: blood
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: copy and paste letter to Alison Naidech
Message:
anaidech@milbank.com

Dear Ms. Naidech,

Having recently learned of your role in the notification of ISPs carrying purported content copyrighted by either Elan Vital, or one of the following alias names Lord of the Universe, Prem Rawat, Prem Pal Singh, Guru Maharaji, Maharaji, I felt it my humanitarian duty to inform you about the individual or organization you are representing.

The individual who has gone by the above named aliases is the leader of an organization which is a dangerous cult in every sense of the word. The organization has changed its name through the years in an effort to hide past activities. Proving ownership of much of the content in question will be extremely difficult for your firm, as well as the individual or organization you represent. The organization which originally published much of the material was named Divine Light Mission. The cult leader is named Lord of the Universe, Guru Maharaji or Prem Rawat. This man is presently trying to distance himself from his previous alias of 'Lord of the Universe' and the previous organization named Divine Light Mission. Uncountable assets have been acquired under the names of both of these organizations.

Do you know that this individual had people kissing his feet as a sign of their devotion to him? Do you know that this man had a renunciate order which required turning over all possessions and all wages only to be disbanded in a moments notice leaving hundreds of individuals homeless and penniless?

The cult organization has created havoc in many thousands of lives. The organization, which your client heads, cunningly demanded absolute mental submission in exchange for a promised experience of the higher truth. Many abominations have occurred in the name of your client. Stories of abuse both physical and emotional are available in histories and archives.

Originally, this cult established for itself a non-profit status in western countries. Donations and contributions were solicited and received as a part of attainment of the 'higher truth.' The cult leader began to exploit the wealth the non-profit status generated to the extent that his holdings are enormous. Please feel free to research all of this information.

The cult preys on individuals who are seeking a higher reality, but, thousand upon thousands of individuals who meandered down the path of this cult have found that it is severely damaging, exploitave, manipulative and nothing more than a well masked con game.

The efforts of many individuals to bring awareness to the dangers of this cult have been the target of your recent attacks. I would like to invite you to investigate the validity of these statements prior to filing any more letters with ISPs to remove the so-called copyright content.

I would hate to see you proceed in your actions without a clear understanding of what you are doing. I recognize that this organization calling itself Elan Vital, and the individual calling himself any of the various aliases previously mentioned have rights afforded to them by the laws and that it is your profession to defend these rights. I would like to encourage you to understand for your own sake and for your firm's sake just which side of this problem you are on. It might save tremendous embarrassment to yourself and to your firm if you can extract your self sooner rather than later.

Under the alias Guru Maharaji, this individual was very much in the press in the early 70s. Returning the attention of the press to your client is undoubtedly the last thing that he wants. If his efforts to suppress the information and history of his actions on the internet continue be certain that the press will become interested. Again, many thousands of individuals are watching these actions and will not hesitate to write en masse to every news agency on the earth with full reporting of the events.

I invite you to inform yourself about all of the history and circumstances surrounding your client's activities as you proceed so that you fully understand which side of right, you are on.

Thank you for you attention.

Very Truly Yours,

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 02:59:59 (GMT)
From: deep text
Email: None
To: blood
Subject: copy and paste letter to Alison Naidech
Message:
blood-excellent letter.hope you sent it.also, let us know if a letter writing campaign from an army of exes would help these attorneys understand a little bit more about the 'client' they represent.
also...if an attorney were to receive thousands of letters, and if they were required to read them, wouldn't that create a rather large bill for their 'client'?
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 03:29:34 (GMT)
From: Going for IT
Email: None
To: deep text
Subject: GOOD IDEA!!!! EXES ? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 01:13:42 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: blood
Subject: Great letter, blood
Message:
Did you send it?
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 01:03:13 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: blood
Subject: Excellent -- Did you send it? If not, please do!
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 01:25:07 (GMT)
From: blood
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Alison Naidech...you've got mail
Message:
There is one mis-spelling in the copy I pasted here. Exploitive needs to be corrected if any one else would like to demonstrate in this way..
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:40:53 (GMT)
From: GAC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Milbank Associate representing the
Message:
con ARTIST formerly known as The Lord of the Universe! Oops... Alison does Rawat have a copyright on his Lord of the Universe name?

Naidech, Alison G.
anaidech@milbank.com

GAC

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:24:27 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm Sure Michael Dettmers Knows Jacobs and Alison.
Message:
I wouldn't be surprised that during his tenure as right hand man to the former lord of the universe, and his ongoing attempts to 'legitimatize' and 'clean-up' the legal and financial activities of the Perfect Master, that Mr. Dettmers may well have hired Milbank back in the 80s. Maybe we should ask him, if he ever returns to the light of day, that is.
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:08:34 (GMT)
From: GAC
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: I'm Sure Michael Dettmers Knows Jacobs and Alison.
Message:
JW... I'm sure Michael of the recent fluff sang is quite familiar with the Milbank Enterprise...

Filing Information: AMNEX INC filed this 10-K405 on 07/01/1999.

he Company since March 1998. From February 1995 until joining the Company, Mr. Lxxxxxxx was employed by HSBC Securities, Inc., the U.S. securities subsidiary of HSBC Holdings plc, where he most recently served as a Managing Director and Head of Corporate Finance in its Investment Banking Division. From 1985 through February 1994, he was an attorney in the Corporate Department of the law firm of Milbank , Tweed, Hadley & McCloy. Mr. Lxxxxxx holds a BA degree in Economics from Williams College and a JD from the Columbia University School of Law. Roy L. Sxxxxx has served as Chief Operations Officer of the Company since January 1998. From 1991 until joining the Company, Mr. Sxxxxx was the President of Western Associates, Inc., an international telecommunications consultancy serving co
(7) 41 10.1 Employment Agreement, dated as of June 25, 1996, between AMNEX and Peter M. Ixxxx, Jr. (2) 10.2 Provision in Stock Option Agreements between AMNEX and each of Peter M. Ixxxx, Jr., Kenneth G. Bxxxx, John Kane, Kevin D. Gxxxxx, Richard L. Sxxxx and Michael V. Dettmers . (2) 10.3 Stock Exchange Agreement, dated as of January 7, 1997, between AMNEX and Francesco Gxxxxx. (1) 10.4 Warrant, dated January 7, 1997, issued to Francesco Gxxxx. (1) 10.5 Agreement, dated as of January 13, 1997, by and among AMNEX, Friedli AG, Friedli Corporate Finance Inc. and Peter Fxxxxx.

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:27:56 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: GAC
Subject: Is AMNEX, related to AMTEXT????
Message:
Very interesting.... but I can't believe they are related, but the names are AWFULLY close. Michael, can you explain?
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 22:53:11 (GMT)
From: DEEP TEXT
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Is AMNEX, related to AMTEXT????
Message:
JW-has anyone heard of the company Stirling(Sterling?).It was started by chuck nathan, head of amtext,to market other types of books to missouri books.
Also, there is supposedly a new premie businesss start-up in miami.chuck nathatn is involved in some way, but not related to books, as far as I know...
Worth checking out!
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:40:31 (GMT)
From: GAC
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Is AMNEX, related to AMTEXT????
Message:
JW,

No, AMNEX is not related to AMTEXT.

GAC

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:45:39 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: GAC
Subject: Thanks, know anything about it????
Message:
I note that Dettmers has on his website some glowing praise for his company from someone at AMNEX. He does not, however, mention that he also owns stock options in the company.
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 20:23:11 (GMT)
From: GAC
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Thanks, know anything about it????
Message:
JW...

AMNEX is pretty easy to 'learn' about. Go to any SEC/EDGAR search engine and you'll find it's basically a telecommunications company.

One other item of interest is the mention of Mr. Friedli & Mr Dettmers in the AMNEX ditty. Mr Friedli is a Swiss Venture Capitalist doing quite well. Didn't Michael mention (in his EPO - 'Fluff sang') something about a Swiss Foundation? If so I'd lay odds that Friedli was involved.

GAC

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 14:08:07 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: Everyone
Subject: M Video giveaway, redux
Message:
Hi everyone -
I've had two requests for the M videos I offered to give away. One person wanted videos that featured music (mostly Daya in the ones I have), and, Ged, I assume that you want videos that feature satsang? There should be enought for both, although I may not be able to divide them correctly since I don't really remember what is on what video.

One note to Ged - these videos are in US format (not Pal). Also, I need your mailing address to send them to you. (BTW, nice name! Did you know that LeGuin had absolutely no intention of making it symbolic for 'God' in her books, and was flabbergasted when people asked her about it?)

Take care -
Katie

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Date: Thurs, May 25, 2000 at 14:36:01 (GMT)
From: Ged
Email: ged@gedmedia.com
To: Katie
Subject: M Video giveaway, redux
Message:
Kate , Being in the UK the videos would need to be in Pal format but I'll trade you the cost of sending them for the cost of my having to make pal copies. Would the quality - of the video not the contents- withstand being copied and then digitized?
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Date: Fri, May 26, 2000 at 01:15:41 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Ged
Subject: Wonder if British exes have videos to dispose of?
Message:
I think the videos are relatively good quality, Ged. I am not sure about the contents - actually, I confess that I fast forward through M's satsang about 90% of the time.

Alternatively, you could ask for video 'donations' from UK exes (thus the title of this post) - I'm sure that some people are looking for a proper way to dispose of them :). However, I'd be happy to send you four or five of mine.

BTW, I have your e-mail, but have been caught up in this lawsuit stuff - will respond this weekend, I hope.

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 14:13:16 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Lipstick traces
Message:
I should add that one lucky person will get a video with lipstick smeared on it by a nameless premie who kissed all her M videos one night while wearing bright red lipstick. Thanks to Selene for contributing this particular historical item (she wasn't the one who did it!)
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 15:16:58 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: whew! thanks for adding that
Message:
I have had many a manic time but NEVER ever kissed a Maharaji tape. Just passed them on from someone ele and didn't even wanna
put them in my tape player.
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:56:16 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Lipstick's traces? foolish things, take two ...
Message:
Lipstick's traces? foolish things, take two ...

'The tattered remnants of an old French letter;
A touch of syphilis that won't get better;
And still my foreskin stings,
These foolish things
Remind me of you ...'

No - NOT you, Selene, or Katie. How could you - how could I - ever think ... oh, never mind!

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 04:23:22 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: nice cq why not joke about my friend who
Message:
was in a near fatal car accident while you are at it?
your jokes grow tiresome.
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 14:08:41 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Yeeeowwwwww - I must have deserved that.
Message:
I take it a quick fuck's out of the question?
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:11:29 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: let me try another explanation
Message:
LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:44:27 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: message received. (nt)
Message:
message received. (nt)
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 13:12:08 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: freewheeling@bigfoot.com
To: Everyone
Subject: completely, totally, and absolutely off topic
Message:
Hi:

Just wondering if anyone has any recommendations regarding personal scheduling software. I think they're called PIM programs, but not sure what that stands for. (Personal Information Management?) Anyway, what I want to do is keep track of appointments, schedule projects, use 'to do' lists, etc. I don't much like the way Outlook wants to install all kinds of superfluous stuff and to take ever control of my computer and start doing my dental work. Most of the programs I've seen seem to be written by the 'design impaired' so that they create more confusion than they resolve. I bought some program called 'Any Time' for about $50. When I found that something didn't work right I called their tech support expecting to get some sort of bug fix, or at least a workaround. So the tech guy says: 'Oh yeah, that doesn't work right. Sorry.' I can get bugs a lot cheaper elsewhere.

So, do any of you clever folks have any recommendations? Is anyone else's life sufficiently complicated that they've a need for this sort of thing, and if so what do you use?

Thanks,

--Scott

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 01:13:20 (GMT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Try Top Priority- I can e-mail to you.
Message:
If you can handle using a DOS program in or outside of windows, I can e-mail you Top Priority, which, being DOS, is blazing fast. I used it when I was running around 40 projects at a time, and it handles time sensitive reminders, sub reminders( I built project templates ), note fields, reports, etc. etc., and is very easy to use and set up. No bugs either.
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:48:47 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: freewheeling@bigfoot.com
To: dv
Subject: Try Top Priority- I can e-mail to you.
Message:
dv:

Thanks. I don't think I'm much interested in a dos program. I'm pretty well conditioned to the Windoze environment now, though if I get a second computer I might run one as a Linux box.

--Scott

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 13:37:05 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: Scott T.
Subject: completely, totally, and absolutely off topic
Message:
Hi Scott -
I agree that Outlook, and other Microsoft programs try and take over your computer and are VERY annoying. I'm still trying to get MSWord not to format my documents for me!

Anyway, here is my solution:
Do it on paper!
Write everything for each day on a loose piece of paper, which you then keep in a portfolio in chronological order. Also have a calendar with large monthly spaces in the portfolo for things like meeting, dentist appointments, etc. You can put long term goals, shopping lists, addresses, etc. in another section.

This actually works, although you have to remember two things:
1. Keep the portfolio with you :)
2. Look at the portfolio every morning.

Sorry I didn't have a more high tech solution! I have found that actually WRITING it down helps me to remember things.

My brother-in-law, who has ADD and cannot remember ANYTHING, swears by his Palm Pilot. It really works for him.

Hey Scott, are you still planning on coming to Blacksburg this weekend? I have to work, but I'll be around here and there.

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:36:16 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: caveman only need eat sleep hunt--
Message:
I agree with katie!! I got daytimer calendar pages and put them in a binder, so I can see the whole month at a time. It looks professional for clients (ha--little do they know) but is just simple for my pea brain to keep track of. i also keep a daily to do list on a small notebook and keep another small notebook by the phone for messages. I actually hired someone to help me get organized and she gave me these tips. She said 'you have only one life so keep only one calendar' (rather than one calendar for family, one for work, etc)

Owning a palm pilot or some such thing makes me feel too weird, but it may be just what will help you be organized. You probably need something more high tech to keep up with you--ha ha
Helen, who got a cell phone for mother's day and hasn't taken it out of the box

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 15:54:12 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: completely, totally, and absolutely off topic
Message:
Your using paper idea sounds good to me. I remember things well by writing them as well. But as far as for organizational purposes, I'd end up with a bunch of scraps of paper stuffed in my pocket.

I had to be organized once and used a bound planner thingy. At work I have a little monthly calender I write stuff on...people seems to like it when I remember the day paychecks are supposed to be ready.

For Scott T though...a program called 'Palm Desktop' came with my iMac. It's a pretty grand thing. Stays on the desktop, easy to access any time...pops up alarms and windows to remind me of stuff...schedules appointments and yells at you to go and all that. It has calenders(daily, weekly and monthly) the list banners, appointments, and tasks and notes...tons of stuff I will never use. I doesn't take much room and you can access your plans for the day with out actually opening up the whole thing...can just click on information about it from your desktop.

I believe it works with one of those small things for those big important people on the go.

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:37:54 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: completely, totally, and absolutely off topic
Message:
I have a Palm Pilot, that I use both at my office and home, and it is absolutely fantastic, and can be carried in your coat pocket. One of the best inventions ever, in my opinion. My firm got one for all of us, but you can hook it up to any computer. I use Dell computers and Microsoft Windows 98, Excel and Outlook and it interfaces well with all of them.
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 15:53:53 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Palm Pilot, absolutely off topic
Message:
Joe:

Which Palm Pilot do you use? It appears that prices range from $150 to around $500 for these things. There are some Casio devices too. To tell the truth, I don't get how you use these without a keyboard. Do they have voice recognition or something? (Wouldn't that be cool?)

--Scott

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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 21:01:26 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Palm Pilot, absolutely off topic
Message:
I have a Palm Pilot Pro (Palm Pilot Professional) by 3Com. I don't know what it cost.

There is a little pointer for operating all the programs and keys, but I usually input most of my calendar items simultaneously on my computer and the Palm Pilot, since I use Echo and it interfaces with both. You can also 'write' in calendar items, addresses, etc., but you have to use their program 'giraffe' to learn the lettering system, which converts handwritten words and numbers to print.

It's a pretty amazing device, and now that I've had it for awhile I would be lost without it.

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 16:34:36 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: completely, totally, and absolutely off topic
Message:
Daneane:

But as far as for organizational purposes, I'd end up with a bunch of scraps of paper stuffed in my pocket.

Ain't it the truth, and I can't even remember which pants they were in. A solution: wear only one pair with lots of labelled pockets. It'd help me cultivate that mad professor image that people find so attractive too.

Anyway, thanks for the Palm Desktop suggestion. I'll see if there's a version that's compatible with Windoze.

--Scott

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:36:35 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Windoze??
Message:
Oh yeah...I think somebody told me one once that there are other companies besides Apple making computer stuff.
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 14:14:07 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: completely, totally, and absolutely off topic
Message:
Katie:

I'm still mulling over whether I'm up to one of the rides in Blacksburg on Saturday or Sunday. It's a long drive for an early morning start, and I may just decide to ride somewhere closer. I need to put in some billable hours this month anyway. It's a great ride though, so I'm still tempted. Will let you know.

The problem I have with the paper thing is that I just won't do it. You have to be organized in the first place for that to work, and I'm organizationally impaired. I need some sort of system that imposes order on me and has some automated features. How much are the Palm Pilots?

--Scott

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 15:18:04 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: completely, totally, and absolutely off topic
Message:
Hi Scott -
Well, e-mail me if you're going to come down here. There are some nice rides in Ellett Valley, etc. BTW, this is Memorial Day weekend, so may be a bit crowded (not sure, cause the students are not here). I need to put in billable hours this weekend too.

Not sure about cost of Palm Pilot, but according to my brother-in-law, it's worth every penny. (He doesn't have a lot of money either.) He runs his own business with a Palm Pilot and a cell phone. He won't write things down either - you cannot leave a phone message with him - so I'd say he's in worse organizational shape than you :).

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 05:38:35 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Do you think George Soros and Maharji ever hang?
Message:
Is it possible that there are sophistications to his goings on
way beyond all the snake oil salesman stories?

and i will regret posting this when people who are so gone
start answering back with their disgust towards the
healthy need to ask a simple question....with it's own
answer built right in no less.

I have to ask it again?

Since it was 'M' people that taught me that certain rulers rule by simply
creating their own opposition, i might hasten to guess that Maharaji may be
just that clever?

How should I know who are not some of 'The Kings' own created enemies?

and why should we care of course. of course!

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 15:25:29 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Personally, I like to see both hang. nt
Message:
zx
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 15:47:29 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: but only after they use those torture tools like
Message:
ones at the end of Braveheart right?

seriously? are you just being silly?

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 11:39:27 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Hang with who?
Message:
Raina:

Turning barbed wire into cellophane again? Well, just because he thought of it (if he did) doesn't mean it'd work. Then again, is CD merely an ex playing a role? What happened to CD anyway? Did he finally fizzle? For that matter, who the hell is George Soros?

--Scott

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 14:57:56 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: It's called a Search Engine....
Message:
i guess that why they used to call some of you 'The Intensive Care Units'?...

Imagine Scottie as head counsel for the plaintiff in the largest class action law-suit aginst a religious leader? (OR even an idea man!) Oh i'm sorry scottie would you like me better if i posted a necked pic of myself firing whip creamed ping pong balls?

Before you attack? Maybe know what you're talking about....?

Or just being pointlessly mean is like sex for you?

not that your pointless absurdity is any less interesting than ayone else's.

next time why don't you send along the URL of your most 'fave' web site......so we can share, you know get better aquainted. are you hard headed lover?

i think i want you bad.

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 16:23:42 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: Pointlessly Dungeonesque?
Message:
And all of this is by way of an answer? By the way, what did I say that you construed as mean? Barbed wire into cellophane? Yeah, that would upset me too I guess. I understand that with just the right touch you can walk through barbed wire.

Imagine Scottie as head counsel for the plaintiff in the largest class action law-suit aginst a religious leader?

I just don't sufficiently appreciate the shotgun approach to logic, I guess. What would be the strategy associated with claiming, or proving, that Maharaji has self chosen enemies? Do people who prove that get bigger damage awards? Is this a graspable concept to a typical judge or group of peers? Imagine Raina as a jury consultant. No don't, I've accidentally tickled myself. Anyway, I guess I'll have to quit my job so I can follow up on Raina's references.

--Scott 'over 50 and clueless' Talkington

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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 16:50:24 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: great word Dungeonesque. nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 12:44:02 (GMT)
From: George Soros
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Guru Who?
Message:
I am a pro-pot billionaire who lost his shirt investing in Russia after the fall of Communism. Why raina thinks I have anything to do with a washed-up guru is beyond me.
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 17:29:20 (GMT)
From: George Soros
Email: None
To: George Soros
Subject: Guru Who?
Message:
I am also single-handedly responsible for the tanking of several Asian currencies over the years. I am that good, you know.
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Date: Wed, May 24, 2000 at 01:55:30 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: George Soros
Subject: what makes people want to destroy each other?
Message:
these self-evident truths
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 14:40:32 (GMT)
From: raiba
Email: None
To: George Soros
Subject: Guru Who?
Message:
no you are JIM being closedminded and backwards (and almost funnY)
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 18:54:17 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: raiba
Subject: hope that cold gets better ... Raiba (nt)
Message:
hope that cold gets better ... Raiba (nt)
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 12:12:58 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Take no Quantum leaps at this time!(nt)
Message:
fatso is a skunk
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 14:59:58 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: in which direction?
Message:
i can go backwards and forwards and sideways!
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 19:19:06 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: raina
Subject: It's the highs and lows U need 2 watch out for(nt)
Message:
It's the highs and lows U need 2 watch out for(nt)
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Date: Tues, May 23, 2000 at 23:42:34 (GMT)
From: raina
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: i meant in a 360 compass type all over kind of nt
Message:
thing
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