Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 11:13:17 (GMT)
From: Jun 06, 2000 To: Jun 14, 2000 Page: 2 Of: 5


cq -:- Did Maharaji think he was God incarnate? -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 20:20:09 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Did Maharaji think he was God incarnate? -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:42:25 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Did Maharaji think he was God incarnate? -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 17:29:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- great question... -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 18:03:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Excellent post, Susan (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 23:58:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- thank you Nigel and Katie !(nt) -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 17:46:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- agree with Susan - good question AND answer! -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 16:55:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Deplore what he does AND forgive him too??? -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 16:29:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Deplore what he does AND forgive him too??? -:- Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 02:38:32 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- Did Maharaji think he was God incarnate? -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 04:17:19 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- So it was a deliberate deception then? (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 14:56:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Helen -:- yes (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:21:12 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Questions -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 22:46:02 (GMT)
__ Ron G -:- Did Maharaji think he was God incarnate? -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:58:47 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Did Maharaji think he was God incarnate? -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 13:58:17 (GMT)
__ __ (Sir) David -:- Did Maharaji think he was God incarnate? -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 00:36:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ gErRy -:- Only God can be God -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 01:19:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ (Sir) David -:- Only God can be God -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 13:00:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Only God can be God(LOL) -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 07:46:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ CHRISTO -:- Only God can be God(LOL) -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:17:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- I once knew someone who was an...... -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:12:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Like it! ... and talk of the tail wagging the dog: -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 14:07:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Noggin the Nog (ot) -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 19:31:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Sure I remember Noggin the Nog (ot) -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 16:17:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Muffin the mule........... -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 22:32:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Sure I remember the Tribbles (ot) -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 21:08:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Noggin the Nog (ot) -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 19:49:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ yohal -:- I once knew someone who was an...... -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:20:02 (GMT)

MRC -:- What We Are About -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 18:29:43 (GMT)
__ Pierre -:- What I am About -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:26:25 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- I appreciate your campaign, and updated my page -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 07:53:28 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- What We Are About -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 20:42:03 (GMT)
__ __ MRC -:- What We Are About -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:37:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ (Sir) David -:- What We Are About -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 02:10:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ (Sir) David -:- Good letter, by the way (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 02:13:23 (GMT)
__ gErRy -:- What We Are About -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 18:36:59 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- GERRY! Come on, man! We're trying to... -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 02:18:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ red butler -:- That Love -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:31:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- It's goddamn pejorative alright. Cease and Desist -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 19:27:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ red butler -:- It's goddamn pejorative alright. Cease and Desist -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 19:40:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- as I said let's hope it don't -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 08:08:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- .. this movie script. You gonna submit it? :) nt -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 17:32:26 (GMT)
__ __ red butler -:- What We Are About -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 19:12:57 (GMT)
__ __ Monica (not) -:- MRC ... don't you get it Gerry? ... MERCY ....? -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 19:11:53 (GMT)
__ MRC -:- Further Request -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 18:34:10 (GMT)
__ __ DeProGram Anand Ji -:- Further Request -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 00:00:44 (GMT)

Rated-X -:- Questions on Sex and Meditation -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 13:52:23 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- Questions on Sex and Meditation -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 04:25:24 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- Questions on Sex and Meditation -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 14:51:13 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- It's an alpha male strategy... -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:03:21 (GMT)
__ __ Freddie -:- It's an alpha male strategy... -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:34:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- You wanna take me on a date..? -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:39:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Freddie, stop teasing me! -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 22:26:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- LOL, Nice one nigel nt -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 00:36:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Freddie -:- Hmmmm, -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 03:06:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- So you said 'fuck' instead??! Are you confused? -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 11:09:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- So you said 'fuck' instead??! Are you confused? -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 22:25:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- um Freddie... -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 04:32:36 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Questions on Sex and Meditation -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 19:15:54 (GMT)
__ (Sir) David -:- Questions on Sex and Meditation -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 16:40:09 (GMT)
__ Elaine -:- Questions on Sex and Meditation -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:03:44 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- reminds me of the book 'Candy' -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 20:35:48 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- What enhanced my meditation? -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:24:00 (GMT)
__ __ Helen -:- Tantric Shopping -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 04:04:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ ham -:- I'll go Tantric Shopping with ya anytimne you like -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 10:11:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- I'll go Tantric Shopping with ya anytimne you like -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 14:56:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- I'll go Tantric Shopping with ya anytimne you like -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 13:43:15 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- onions,garlic,beans, alcohol,meat etc ... -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 19:23:07 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Is there anything you DON'T believe, Elaine? -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 16:10:43 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Except for great souls of course! -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:29:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elaine -:- Except for great souls of course! -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:32:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Except for great souls of course! -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:38:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- In the group meditations ...... -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:29:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- great souls who - of course! - never fart ???? -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 20:12:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gERry -:- Except for great souls of course! -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:37:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Except for great souls of course! -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:41:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Except for great souls of course! -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:53:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Except for great souls of course! -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 15:07:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- OK here's a concept... -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 15:15:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- OK here's a concept... -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 15:30:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ red butler -:- Common misconception -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 16:55:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ealine -:- Common indeed... and so... -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 17:28:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ red butler -:- Common indeed... and so... -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 17:38:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Attempted target-diversion by 'Ealine' no? (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:02:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Oh yes, cq has found out my secret agenda....nt -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 22:31:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Another Snicker -:- You Go Red (N.T.) -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:20:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- What a concept for a website! Don't stop! (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 19:31:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- snicker..... -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 17:41:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- garlicandonions -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 16:33:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- OK here's a concept... -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 15:49:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- OK here's a concept... -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 17:30:59 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Copyrights free!! Maharaji vs. Exes' Websites! -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 09:53:42 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- News from Boston: check the Ritz Hotel -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 05:45:37 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Now that I've outed his hole -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 13:29:08 (GMT)
__ jondon -:- Welcome to Boston -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 12:54:16 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Careful! -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 00:46:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ jondon -:- Careful! -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 04:36:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- Beware of anyone holding a hammer -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 23:13:09 (GMT)

Gilead -:- VISIONS: THEY WILL NEVER RELEASE OLD FILMS -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 02:15:48 (GMT)
__ jondon -:- VISIONS: THEY WILL NEVER RELEASE OLD FILMS -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 02:52:17 (GMT)
__ __ Uncertain -:- Phoenix? -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 02:58:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ jondon -:- Phoenix? -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 10:50:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Zelda -:- Phoenix, Jondon, Gilead-wow names! Welcome NT -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 05:43:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Gilead -:- Phoenix, Jondon, Gilead-wow names! Welcome NT -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:45:49 (GMT)

aziz -:- Extra D.C. program on June 17 -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 02:14:50 (GMT)
__ desert-angel -:- Extra D.C. program on June 17 -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 11:48:55 (GMT)
__ Premie Moles Needed -:- Extra D.C. program on June 17 -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 09:29:13 (GMT)

Maharaji Responsibility -:- Campaign- Those in Boston check out the Phoenix! -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 23:48:33 (GMT)
__ One voice -:- to premie lurkers -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 15:49:20 (GMT)
__ __ Elaine -:- to premie lurkers -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 17:33:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- To Elaine re link to K letter -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 18:27:54 (GMT)
__ rupee murdoch -:- Campaign- Those in Boston check out the Phoenix! -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 08:14:07 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Great letter, but why don't you include -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 06:10:35 (GMT)
__ Maharaji Responsbility -:- Campaign- Boston Phoenix Newspaper -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 05:37:38 (GMT)
__ rupee murdoch -:- Campaign- Those in Boston check out the Phoenix! -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 03:09:29 (GMT)
__ __ MRC -:- Campaign- Those in Boston check out the Phoenix! -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 18:11:27 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- And who are you rupee? (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 07:51:39 (GMT)
__ Uncertain -:- What is the Phoenix? -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 02:01:48 (GMT)
__ __ Jolly -:- good work! (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:19:38 (GMT)

cq -:- Within inside - as opposed to ... -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 21:31:57 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- Hi guys.. here are 19 things the...... -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 13:35:27 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- the Dalai Lama did not necessarily ever say . . -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 00:15:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- question to Hal and cq re: Dalai Lama + -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 18:22:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Dalai Lama, chain e-mails, and FWD's (ot) -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 21:54:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- Reply to Stonor -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 18:50:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Stonora -:- Hi Hal -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 19:35:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Hi Stonora (ot) -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 14:14:46 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- This guy really IS a philosopher -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 14:44:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Chris -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:20:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Ooops, that was Ham, not you Hal -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:36:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Ooops, that was Ham, not you Hal -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 18:09:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- That's the shrooms for ya, and the bru! -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 19:36:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ham -:- Hamzen, Hi, I thought the mention of altered ... -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 20:01:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- The sounds are a blastin' my man (ot) -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 14:35:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- The sounds are a blastin' my man (ot) -:- Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 21:26:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Don't you dare mention the weather...!!! -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 21:22:46 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- And both are cliches and hardly original..(nt) -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 20:58:58 (GMT)
__ Keith -:- The numbers game.. -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 22:21:19 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- A very convenient avoidance, if I might say so ... -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 18:52:29 (GMT)
__ __ Gregg -:- The numbers game.. -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:16:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ keith -:- The numbers game.. -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 05:27:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- 'focus your precious energy'? you could do better -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 18:13:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Elaine -:- The numbers game.. -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 14:40:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- The numbers game.. -:- Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 08:53:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- The numbers game.. -:- Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 08:43:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elaine -:- The numbers game.. -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:48:36 (GMT)

gilead -:- Marianne, .....Peoples Temple....where are you? -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 21:23:12 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- Marianne, .....Peoples Temple....where are you? -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 23:08:01 (GMT)

Larkin -:- Attention EV: Defamatory material back on-line... -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 21:18:38 (GMT)

GAC -:- Udderly Fascinating ! -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 18:22:46 (GMT)
__ gErRy -:- Udderly Tasteless and udderly irresistible !!! -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 18:38:18 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- ps aint it funny gods gotta get his teeth cleaned? -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 05:28:43 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- agreed -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 18:57:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ GAC -:- I'm flattered..... -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:12:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Just the Facts -:- agreed/but still No Thanks!!! -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:05:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ GAC -:- Hey JtF what's your problem? -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:13:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- something touched a nerve and.. -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:20:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Just the Facts -:- something touched a nerve and.. -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:27:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- very factual -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:41:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Just the Facts -:- very factual/Apology accepted -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 15:36:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- well then, see? I wasn't that far off! :) -:- Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 15:55:49 (GMT)

Mili -:- Watch out! -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 17:05:53 (GMT)
__ Mickey the Exorcist -:- Watch out! -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:27:32 (GMT)

Felda -:- is such a non //http:descriptibe word.. -:- Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 10:58:25 (GMT)


Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 20:20:09 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Did Maharaji think he was God incarnate?
Message:
Did Maharaji think he was God incarnate?

Did he?

Did we??

Does he???

Do we????


Showdown imminent?

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:42:25 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Did Maharaji think he was God incarnate?
Message:
Hi cq -
I have thought about this question a lot - it's a good one.

First, I can tell you what I believed - I believed that Maharaji was 'Satguru' - the latest person to come to the planet who was like Jesus, Krishna, Mohammed, etc. In other words, the person who was born to be a link between humanity and god. I never really believed that Jesus was divine/God incarnate, so I didn't really think the same thing about M. But I definitely thought he was a very spiritually high person, and far 'above' me.

I knew lots of people who believed that M was indeed god incarnate - I'm sure we all knew people who did, and, of course, a lot of us believed it too.

Finally - the most interesting question: did M think he was god incarnate? I definitely think he believed he was Satguru, or the Perfect Master. Whether that adds up to 'incarnation of god' is hard to say. The other thing that I have noticed about M's earlier satsangs is that he almost always refers to Guru Maharaji in the third person. This leads me to think that he believed that he was somehow inhabited by the spirit of the Satguru/Perfect Master being, and that this was somehow separate from Prem Pal Rawat. I think he believes that his father was an incarnation of god, and, of course, he was brought up to believe that he was the latest person who was 'possessed' (bad connotations, but you probably know what I mean).

As for what he believes now - who knows? It would be interesting to find out though.

Take care, cq -
Katie

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 17:29:26 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Did Maharaji think he was God incarnate?
Message:
Thanks Katie, you too have really given this some thought, haven't you?

I initially asked the question because, depending on whether he did/does think of himself as 'God incarnate' or not (or at least the Hindu equivalent), - depending on his answer, it puts the whole trip in two very different lights (and it can only be his answer that carries any weight, if we are to judge him fairly).

In other words, either he knew he was conning us, or else he was ALSO a victim of a con that his father had fallen for as well.

Personally, I'd find it a lot easier just to subscribe to that second version, put it down to experience, forgive the guy, and get on with forgetting him.

But he's still pulling in new suckers (like I was) every day - admittedly to a scheme which no longer (at least not overtly) carries the Messianic overtones that hooked me and many others. But I don't think he's quite at ease with being 'just another' meditation teacher, do you?

Why does he still propagate the 'knowledge' techniques?

If he's dropped the 'superior power in person' trip, is he just propagating the meditation because he knows there's a buck or two(million) (a year) there for him at the end of it?

That's my present dilemma - is he just a con-artist, or is he a victim?

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 18:03:56 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: great question...
Message:
do you think it could be both?

We wouldn't blame Hansi or Premlata, when they were small, if they thought Dad was God. After all, if you imagine the environment they wre in as small kids, it certainly would appear that way to them.

So we know Prem Pal, as a kid, was brought up to believe Dad was god or gods messenger. And, he had a following, so from a kids perspective it was believeable. Also, children are very likely to believe whatever it is their parents tell them all through their early childhoods, even if it isn't logical.

So I think it is very likely he believed it all at first. Probably even when he first started coming to the West.

But, if you read Mishler's interview, and you believe it, and I do, at some point, he would have been 17 or 18 in 1976 right?, reality was breaking through the dream. Hence the tortured person we read about, crying on Mishler's shoulder, a kid with an ulcer. But at this point he is also a kid with a FAMILY. Here he is, for the first time in his life probably facing that what he is doing is wrong and deceptive. He is seeing it all for the cult it is. But, he also has a wife, who is many years older than he is and I think he loved very much, and she certainly seems to believe in the trip. He also has a baby daughter.

I beleive this time was a moral crossroads for him. We all saw the change in the cult. Something was happening to undo the cultdome. And it wouldn't have happened without his okay.

But, he had this opulent lifestyle, that he did not want to lose. And his wife, and his child, I bet, made him want to lose it even less. He also, at a rather young age, was on the outs with his mom, and the fact that he got away with being a 'playboy' instead of being dragged back to India by Momma, had to cause anxiety. He probably really hurt over losing his mother. That is my guess. And, if he admit he is a fraud, than what was Dad? And that archetype of his Dads memory has to be another extremely powerful pull on his psyche.

I am not putting this together that well, but it does add up to one tortured human being. I am not saying that to excuse him. But I think part of him knows he is a con, and he may use alchohol to drown that voice in him. He may need all the yes men around him to drown that voice too.

I think he knows. But I think he uses the same trick to quiet the doubts he tells the premies to use. Listen to your heart. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. Probably, for him, listening to his heart, when the doubts get loud, means beleiveing in Shri hans.\

Thats my theory.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 23:58:17 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Susan
Subject: Excellent post, Susan (nt)
Message:
Very well said.
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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 17:46:03 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: thank you Nigel and Katie !(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 16:55:35 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Susan and cq
Subject: agree with Susan - good question AND answer!
Message:
Susan said it very eloquently and compassionately.

I do see Maharaji as a victim - but that doesn't excuse the fact that he has victimized others for so long. (I think many victims become victimizers - just like abused people become abusers.)
Obviously, Maharaji had nothing like a 'normal' upbringing. Plus his father died when he was very young - and most kids whose fathers die when they are young tend to idolize their fathers and don't really see their human and fallible side. It must have been even worse for M because everyone ELSE around him regarded Shri Hans as god. Can you imagine trying to live up to that image? It would be impossible.

But after a certain point, I think everyone, not just M, has to take responsibility for their lives. Abuse or victimization is not a valid reason for bad behavior. Knowing the real story might help other people be more compassionate and accepting, but basically it is up to every person (including M) to get OVER what happened to them as children - or learn to LIVE with it, as best they can - and not use it as an excuse for hurting others. I would guess that most people who post on this forum have had to do that in their own lives.

My feeling, cq, is that you can forgive Maharaji and still deplore what he does and actively try and help other people (including yourself) who have been hurt by him or his organization. Anyway, that's how I feel.

Take care, both of you -
Katie

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 16:29:08 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Katie, and everyone
Subject: Deplore what he does AND forgive him too???
Message:
Deplore what he does AND forgive him too???

Hmmmm, wouldn't that be to tacitly condone what he's doing? (which I see as taking advantage of a lot of gullible, though often well-intentioned, people).

I'll think about forgiving him IF and WHEN he gets honest with us - and with himself. Otherwise we're just letting him off the hook.

That ol' crocodile's still after him (and no crocodile tears, please!)

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Date: Tues, Jun 13, 2000 at 02:38:32 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Deplore what he does AND forgive him too???
Message:
You obviously know nothing of the nature of forgiveness.
A worthy topic to explore, cq.
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 04:17:19 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Did Maharaji think he was God incarnate?
Message:
It was all an image job, a packaging job. I think he knows he never was the Lord. COme on, if he thought that than monkeys fly out of my...well you know
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 14:56:33 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: So it was a deliberate deception then? (nt)
Message:
So it was a deliberate deception then? (nt)
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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 01:21:12 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: yes (nt)
Message:
jdksjsk
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 22:46:02 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Questions
Message:
Did he? Probably, at least part of the time.

Did I? Yes.

Does he? Probably not, but delusion can be extensive.

Do I? Of course not.

Showdown imminent? More like a gradual melting.

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:58:47 (GMT)
From: Ron G
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Did Maharaji think he was God incarnate?
Message:
You omitted to ask and answer one question.
'Did I?'
Well, did you?
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 13:58:17 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Ron G
Subject: Did Maharaji think he was God incarnate?
Message:
Did I think he was?

Not at first, Ron, but after I joined the ashram in '73 it became kind of infectious. Believing he was the big G incarnate was part and parcel of the whole trip.
You can't go on bowing down in front of someone's picture morning and night without it having some effect.

But there's no doubt in my mind that I was playing out a gestalt that I wanted to. I do take responsibility for that.

I really thought he was going to do it when, in the about '74, he declared: 'I swear on the Bible that I will establish peace in the world.' ( click here for pic.)

Feel free to peruse my 'Journey' if you want the low-down on how it was for me.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 00:36:12 (GMT)
From: (Sir) David
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Ron G
Subject: Did Maharaji think he was God incarnate?
Message:
You must admit, Ron, that the whole trip has been about Maharaji. But is Maharaji any more wiser than you are? He might be richer but is he any more together than you?

Why aren't people watching videos of Ron G or coming to your house to hear you speak? Perhaps they are and perhaps you'd be more accomodating to them than Maharaji has ever been. You might shake their hand and make them a cup of tea; make them feel at home rather than make them stand in the garage while you gave them vending machine tea from a plastic cup.

Maharaji's family history might make him different to your average person but now he's grown up and a man of the world, I see no more reason to listen to him than I'd have reason to listen to any other leader or politician.

'Ah', you might say, 'He's talking about knowledge' but there again I have to admit that I found ordinary premies talking about their experiences to be far more inspiring than Maharaji ever was.

In essence, I'm saying he's no greater, higher or more knowledgable than any other Joe Blow. Only his background makes him appear so. It's a combination of culture, some charisma and a stage act which makes people think Maharaji's special. And they also want to believe he's special or have had it drummed into them. It is very much a case of auto suggestion. They believe he's great so he appears that way.

Back to the original question; Maharaji wanted people to believe he was God incarnate back in the seventies and he did used to perpetrate this God incarnate myth with his Krishna clothes and references to 'Guru Maharaj Ji' being the all knowing creator etc. We all know Maharaji did that and we all know it worked for a while.

But it was an act doomed to failure. Only God can be God.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 01:19:52 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: (Sir) David
Subject: Only God can be God
Message:
And, I might add, George Burns...
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 13:00:02 (GMT)
From: (Sir) David
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Only God can be God
Message:
But Charlton Heston looked the part.
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 07:46:16 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Only God can be God(LOL)
Message:
All this God stuff - its a word with no meaning whatsoever for me.

Only FNaaaaaNganash can be FNaaaaaNganash.

Its the land of vague interpretation : like THIS life THIS feeling.

There is a lot of feeling involved with Knowledge. This to its eternal glory.

Perhaps a subtle difference between he and us is that when (and if ) we found a point of union/clarity/bliss/light etc within - it was all credit to HIM. Oh M you are so big, I am so small - whereas he had identified with this bliss/clarity/union/light so his identification was with himself. 'Thats ME that is' rather than 'Oh how lovely you are'.

Its almost a reversal from the Premie's You are my everything -

'I am your everything, I am so big, you are so small.....'

His error is in not creating equals.By keeping a grain of specialness - he has caused unknown troubles amongst the western psyche. We lack the Indian Feudal system and acceptance.

If we could all share THAT level of empowerment - there wouldn't be the sad hangers on around him - which has turned him (subtly) from a giver to a parasite.

Social, economic and staging factors have conspired to create a cage from which Knowlege and Prem Pal Singh Rawat need to be released.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:17:59 (GMT)
From: CHRISTO
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Only God can be God(LOL)
Message:
ASSUMING J.of NAZ..was el CHRISTO..the anointed one..
assuming.......
then how could he be hung by the boonutee's??
If he was EL CAPITAIN..
and his maestro hasn't come back yet...
what luck...2000 yrs.i been waiting
maybe you're missing the point LOAF bread.
for this is my body?
spill the wine and take that girl..
HAVE U HEARD...the CUBS traded Sammie....geesh
if princess is reading this..
ruff..ruff...drool...droooooll.nectar
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:12:59 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: I once knew someone who was an......
Message:
INSOMNIAC , AGNOSTIC , DYSLEXIC.

He used to lie awake wondering if he believed in Dog.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 14:07:34 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Like it! ... and talk of the tail wagging the dog:
Message:
... and talk of the tail wagging the dog (or should that be the dog biting the hand that feeds it?) ...

Here's a little story that Mr Rawat told back in 1971:

There was a rich man once, and he went to heaven and knocked on the door. And the secretary came and
opened the door and said, 'What is the matter? What do you want here? '

He said, 'I want to enter heaven. '

'Why?'

He said, 'Well, I want to enter.'

So he said, 'God, this guy wants to enter heaven.'

So God said, 'Call him.'

And he came. And God asked him,

'Have you done anything good?'

So the rich man said, 'Well, yes. I have given ten pennies to a widow.'

He said, 'That's all?'

He said, 'Well, I have given five pennies to an orphan child.'

'That's all?'

And he said, 'Yes, that's all I have done good.'

So God asked his secretary what to do. And the secretary said, 'God, give him fifteen cents and send him back to hell. '

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 19:31:40 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: Loafji@yahoo.com
To: cq
Subject: Noggin the Nog (ot)
Message:
Does anybody remember Noggin, Olaf the Lofty and Nogbad the Bad

If so, let me know

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 16:17:32 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Sure I remember Noggin the Nog (ot)
Message:
Noggin the Nog, - Oliver Postgate creation, no?

Then of course, there was Ivor the Engine, (psssh-ti-coo, psssh-ti-coo, psssh-ti-coo, psssh-ti-coo,) who was on British telly in about the same era as Captain Pugwash (remember him? - and Roger the Cabin boy, Master Bates, Seaman Staines ...?) Not to mention Muffin the Mule. Ha! such innocence!

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 22:32:25 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Muffin the mule...........
Message:
Is a serious sexual offence in Portugal!!
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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 21:08:18 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Sure I remember the Tribbles (ot)
Message:
Hi Chris,

Before I forget, it was when I pushed the submit button to post back to you about them that my computer died!!! - no joke, ask my sister, she happened to be here as it happened, and she couldn't believe it.

Yes, I did see that Star Trek episode about those cute innocent Tribbles eating the grain in the cargo bay and multiplying like rabbits or worse.

Now I know that the problem was not a hardware defect, it was the tErRiBlE tRiBbLeS!!!

Talk to you soon,

Stonor

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 19:49:24 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Noggin the Nog (ot)
Message:
Loaf Ji ,

Weren't they in the Stockholm ashram circa.'78 ?

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:20:02 (GMT)
From: yohal
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: I once knew someone who was an......
Message:
U up?
agnog or eggnog...?
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 18:29:43 (GMT)
From: MRC
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What We Are About
Message:
The Maharaji Responsbility Campaign (MRC) is a group of premies, ex-premies, and the families and friends of both. The group got together for the purpose of trying to give Maharaji the chance to do the honorable and right thing -- namely to come clean and be honest about himself and his past, which heretofore he has decidedly not been.

To that ent, our group drafted an open letter to Maharaji, put it on a website on the Internet, and placed an ad in the June 8 edition of the Boston Phoenix newspaper in order to let those interested know about this endeavor. The newspaper edition with the ad should be hitting the streets of Boston today. We specifically chose this edition of the paper because Maharaji will be speaking at a program for premies only in Boston on Monday, June 12, and we hope that many premies and others in town for the event will see the paper.

If you haven't seen the ad in the Boston Phoenix, it is about 5' x 5,' is in the 'Mind, Body, Spirit' section of the paper, and has a picture of Maharaji with the words:

'REMEMBER THE 14 YEAR OLD PERFECT MASTER'
'HE'S STILL HERE'
JUNE 12, 2000 COPELY THEATRE'
'WWW.OPENLETTERTOMAHARAJI.ORG'

The MRC is not affiliated with any other group, and is not connected with the individuals who operate ex-premie.org, although we do appreciate that this forum exists so that our views can be discussed.

As far as we know, this is the first attempt to publicly try to reach Maharaji, premies, ex-premies and others to expose and discuss the rather bizarre history in the West of Prem Pal Singh Rawat, aka, Maharaji, aka Guru Maharaj Ji, etc., and to try to address the many problems and concerns that remain about what he has been up to over the years.

We believe the results of this campaign will be healthy for everyone involved, and we hope it will also have other positive results.

Our open letter to Maharaji can be viewed at:

www.openlettertomaharaji.org

Please feel free to contact us at our email address:

MaharajiResponsibilityCampaign@hotmail.com


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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:26:25 (GMT)
From: Pierre
Email: None
To: MIRC
Subject: What I am About
Message:
Damn..Does this mean I have to go to confession also?
Fudge....
put me down for three acts of contrition..
and throw in a hail mary..
damn...
Do I have to dress up or can I wear shorts?
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 07:53:28 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: MRC
Subject: I appreciate your campaign, and updated my page
Message:
Check the update on my website.

I've provided information on MRC's purpose, and links to your page/letter.

I Object to Prempal Rawat

I wonder what's going to happen ..... Is Mr Rawat going to send emissaries?

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 20:42:03 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: MRC
Subject: What We Are About
Message:
I think I know who you are, MRC spokesperson, but am not completely sure. But anyway, I'd just like to applaud this whole endeavour and say that whoever penned that open letter did a superb job - set the tone exactly right: not too hostile to put premies off from reading it right through, but not too mild-mannered or vague to give 'Maharaji' any scope for wriggling out of his responsibility for his past with bland platitudes. The letter says it all exactly right - nothing left out and no wasted words.

Very well done, you stateside gang, and let's hope something positive comes of it. I can see I'll be glued to the forum this week.

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:37:57 (GMT)
From: MRC
Email: MaharajiResponsbilityCampaign@hotmail.com
To: Nigel
Subject: What We Are About
Message:
Thank you for your encouragement.

The MRC also encourages interested parties in other countries and localities (at least in English-speaking countries unless the letter is translated), to also take out advertisements in any publications they desire to alert interested people to the existence of the open letter on the Internet. Individuals might take out such an advertisement in the UK for example. (HINT, HINT...)

If MRC can aid in coordinating any such projects, please feel free to email us at maharajiresponsibilitycampaign@hotmail.com

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 02:10:29 (GMT)
From: (Sir) David
Email: None
To: MRC
Subject: What We Are About
Message:
Maharaji might not do any programs in the UK because of certain child abuse questions which have yet to be cleared up. Not that Maharaji is being accused of child abuse, but one of his henchmen is clearly in the frame and Maharaji, being the 'head of the church' so to speak, will have to be interviewed.
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 02:13:23 (GMT)
From: (Sir) David
Email: None
To: (Sir) David
Subject: Good letter, by the way (nt)
Message:
a
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 18:36:59 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: MRC
Subject: What We Are About
Message:
What I want to know is is he or isn't he porking Monica?
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 02:18:46 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: gErRy
Subject: GERRY! Come on, man! We're trying to...
Message:
be nice here! We've learned our lesson about worshipping pejorative images and how the word of God belongs and is copyrighted by God. (Hmmm, I wonder if that could be a valid defense?)

And now we're off to the races with that racy soft porn again.

Sheesh!

Where's the House of Maharaji Drek when you need some place to dump and store all that crap? Or did Joey call it shit? Whatever, it doesn't matter. I am a rock. I am an island. I am a fern.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:31:47 (GMT)
From: red butler
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: That Love
Message:
A wet guttural snort startled Monica out of her reverie. The little fucker was asleep, thank god, even if he was drooling all down her breast. She was betting he would be, not that there was a a lot risk to that bet, after watching him belt down six glasses of cognac and hitting the water pipe so many times she lost count.

She was hoping to still get out tonight, maybe go dancing and have a drink somewhere. Hell, it was only 9:30. If she could reach his beeper and get the driver in here, they could hustle him out without him even knowing it.

'Tomorrow I'll have to tell him how 'wonderful' he was,' she thought, 'even though he passed out before he came. He always likes to hear it even though he never remembers...'

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 19:27:15 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: red butler
Subject: It's goddamn pejorative alright. Cease and Desist
Message:
or reap the consequences when the might law firm of Milbank, Weed, Hardly, and Real McCoy comes down on your ass Red Butler.

I hesitate to ask if you might have some illustrations or photos to go with that fictional piece of parody?

And you write as if you are all too familar with the subject matter.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 19:40:35 (GMT)
From: red butler
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: It's goddamn pejorative alright. Cease and Desist
Message:
Rog,

When's the site gonna be back up? I need a place to park this shit. Pics are a good idea: The Illustrated Malibu Vignettes. I can see it now.

PS to all: don't be insulted if I do not respond to your comments on my art. It's a mojo kinda thing and I'm a little superstitous in that regard. Not that I don't want, nay crave your feedback, I do, but will probably not respond as I've said too much already...

Yours,

red

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 08:08:08 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: red butler
Subject: as I said let's hope it don't
Message:
nuf said :) :)
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 17:32:26 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: red butler
Subject: .. this movie script. You gonna submit it? :) nt
Message:
That love ... this movie script.

You gonna submit it? :) nt

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 19:12:57 (GMT)
From: red butler
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: What We Are About
Message:
'Oh shit,' she thought out loud, 'He'll be here any minute and look at this place.' It was gorgeous of course, and expensively furnished, a vaguely incongruous mix of east and west. Monica scrambled to get the rest of the papers, clothes, books and the usual stuff of her life out of the way and into a closet where he'd never look.

He was quite shy really, at least with her. She saw how he sometimes treated the others, but she felt safe, comfortable somehow, even if he wasn't.

'Whoa,' she laughed out loud, 'I AM almost seven inches taller then he is and every bit as big, pound for pound. As soft as he is I bet I could whip his ass if it ever came to that.'

Then came that familiar timid knock on the door. “Shave and haircut, two bits” he’d sometimes tap, trying to be funny. 'Seven-thirty on the dot,' she thought, “just like clockwork…”

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 19:11:53 (GMT)
From: Monica (not)
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: MRC ... don't you get it Gerry? ... MERCY ....?
Message:
MRC ... don't you get it Gerry? ... MERCY ....?
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 18:34:10 (GMT)
From: MRC
Email: maharajiresponsibilitycampaign@hotmail.com
To: MRC
Subject: Further Request
Message:
The MRC also encourages anyone who wishes to do so, to download, email, or print copies of our letter and to distribute them to anyone you believe may benefit from seeing it, especially those without computer access.

Thanks.

Maharaji Responsbility Campaign

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 00:00:44 (GMT)
From: DeProGram Anand Ji
Email: not given
To: MRC
Subject: Further Request
Message:
fact or fiction Monica?
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 13:52:23 (GMT)
From: Rated-X
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Questions on Sex and Meditation
Message:
1- I heard that abstaining from having sex, that would include masterbation, enhances your experience in meditation. The reason being that the conserved energy would go up instead of down, and out! During the ashram days, is that what the celebacy vow was about?

2- If someone was 'enlightened' would they still indulge in the sense gratification and temporary pleasures that sex provides?

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 04:25:24 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Rated-X
Subject: Questions on Sex and Meditation
Message:
This is completely nuts. In fact sexual vitality is a measure of health in every psychological and physical exam known to the medical field. In Chinese medicine it is a sign of health to have sex, keeps the chi going. SHoot, even Judaism says it is a mitzvah to have sex at least once a week with your mate. This is a bunch of hooey hooey garbage--jeez, louise all these spiritual trips take the most sustaining things and turn them into stuff to feel guilty about--AAAAIIIIIEEEEEE
Helen
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 14:51:13 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Questions on Sex and Meditation
Message:
Dear Helen,
First, Jessica was hysterical last Sunday telling me she is, for some unknown reason, using that phrase, Jeeze, Louise! She says she feels like a fuddy duddy. And here you are using it too! You're both fuddy duddies! :) Too Funny.
Anyway I think that may be one reason why I like sex, or did at first, because my mother obviously didn't and I was bound and determined to not be like her! There's one good thing that came out of it I guess. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:03:21 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Rated-X
Subject: It's an alpha male strategy...
Message:
..by which the big boss chimp can keep his rivals celebate while he gets pick of the nookie.
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:34:20 (GMT)
From: Freddie
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: It's an alpha male strategy...
Message:
Nigel, we know your gay, just come on out..
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:39:08 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Freddie
Subject: You wanna take me on a date..?
Message:
'Come on out'..?!

Where would you like to go?

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 22:26:12 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Nigel
Subject: Freddie, stop teasing me!
Message:
As I understand it, 'Homosexual' is the technical term for gay. 'Latent homosexuality' is the Freudian term for the condition of someone who is gay but whose gaiety is unconscious, as yet unrealised and non-consummated. The only person who can tell you whether or not you are a latent homosexual is a specially trained psychoanalyst. Using their special training, psychoanalysts are qualified to reveal whether or not you are a latent homosexual, but cannot explain how this extraordinary condition came about or what you should do about it. There is absolutely no point in querying such a diagnosis, as your denial will be interpreted as a ‘defence mechanism’, ie., the very thing that prevents you from realising that you actually lust after other chaps (assuming you are male - I don't think Freud or his cronies ever diagnosed latent homosexuality in a woman)

Blatant homosexuals, by comparison, require no expert counselling as they generally seem perfectly capable of defining everything they need to know about themselves and their bedding arrangements.

Clearly top penguin psychologist Arthur S. Reber has no expert psychoanalytical training, as his Penguin Dictionary of Psychology offers the following:

'Although psychodynamic theories of personality and sexuality go to great lengths to explain this term it seems clear that a latent homosexual is merely a heterosexual.'

Am I confused here, Fred? Have you really spotted something about me I never knew? And are we still on?

(Or are you perchance that homophobe, anonymous premie whose idea of an insult is to spread a bit of innuendo about a chap's private inclinations?)

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 00:36:17 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: LOL, Nice one nigel nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 03:06:58 (GMT)
From: Freddie
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Hmmmm,
Message:
Maybe Nigel does have more that a third grade education...he didn't even say Fuck this time.
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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 11:09:50 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Freddie
Subject: So you said 'fuck' instead??! Are you confused?
Message:
(no fucking text.)

Happy now?

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 22:25:02 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: So you said 'fuck' instead??! Are you confused?
Message:
Dear Nig,
I don't know about Freddie but I am happy now! For a dolt you are pretty intelligent! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 04:32:36 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Freddie
Subject: um Freddie...
Message:
I believe Nigel has a PhD or is close to having one.
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 19:15:54 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Rated-X
Subject: Questions on Sex and Meditation
Message:
'During the ashram days, is that what the celebacy vow was about?'

No, mate, celIbacy was about not getting it on with those veeerrry exxxtra desirable ashram premieyesssessses ...

(thinks ... and why didn't I?)

second thoughts ....
and why didn't I?

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 16:40:09 (GMT)
From: (Sir) David
Email: None
To: Rated-X
Subject: Questions on Sex and Meditation
Message:
Nobody is enlightened. Meditation is a physical experience. Abstaining from sex just makes you frustrated. I know this from my years in the ashram where I meditated and abstained, and my meditation got gradually worse.

Meditation is primarily about relaxation. Abstaining from sex doesn't make it any better but it can definitely make you less relaxed and less able to meditate.

It's a myth that meditation is some kind of 'spiritual' thing. It's a physical experience, like any other. Do you think that disembodied spirits meditate on their breath? They have none to meditate on.

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:03:44 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Rated-X
Subject: Questions on Sex and Meditation
Message:
1.There are many things that enhance your exp. in meditation. Directing your energies thru your chakras helps,yes. Not eating onions,garlic,beans, alcohol,meat etc. helps also because of fewer distractions while sitting.There are many many things that enhance your exp in meditation. This is really just one - the abstaining.

2.I think they would transform the act using Tantric practices to something very spectacular.If they felt the need or desire to have their energy go to that chakra.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 20:35:48 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: reminds me of the book 'Candy'
Message:

2.I think they would transform the act using Tantric practices to
something very spectacular.If they felt the need or desire to have their energy go to that chakra.

That and the story about Muktananda having 'tantric' sex with the 20-something year old woman reminds me of the book 'Candy', which is a takeoff on Candide. In the book, the gullible heroine Candy goes out into the world and has various adventures. In one, a guy going by the name Grindle and claiming to be a guru 'instructs' her. The 'teaching' involves 'simulating' the sexual act while she performs a yoga movement (moving her hips). Its all to gain mastery of the senses and the body. He of course wills the sperm out of his semen. After several exercises, her period is late.He scoffs at her and tells her not to worry about it, then sends her off to India for more advanced instruction. They made a movie from the book (never saw it) and I think Ringo Star was in it.
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:24:00 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: What enhanced my meditation?
Message:
There's no doubt about it. DRUGS.. Especially good quality acid or mushrooms . I really enjoyed meditating then, although I completely doubt whether the cosmic experiences were anything spiritual. I think that it's possible for every altered state to be wholly attributable to brain chemistry.
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 04:04:38 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Tantric Shopping
Message:
I bought a People magazine tonight and gorged myself on it, great quote by Sting about how he's trying to get his wife into 'tantric shopping, where you go shopping for 5 hours and you don't buy anything'
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 10:11:37 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: I'll go Tantric Shopping with ya anytimne you like
Message:
!.

and do you know why,
yep I bought my first suit ever this week,
now you've got to admit, that's not bad
getting thru to nearly fifty,
alwtho I've now broken my vow,
made when I was 20

to die and never to have owned or worn one.

But now at least, I wouldn't embarrass you while out window shopping

:)

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 14:56:40 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: I'll go Tantric Shopping with ya anytimne you like
Message:
Dear ham,
I thought I'd see you in this thread but not talking about shopping! :)
So my question about the suit is, do you really like it, is it something you'll feel good, comfortable, yourself in?
I guess I've gone Tantric Shopping lots of times. Poverty ain't all bad... :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 13:43:15 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: I'll go Tantric Shopping with ya anytimne you like
Message:
Yer first suit? COngratualtions! I'm sure you look grand in it! There are so many things I swore I would never do, that I do now, it's embarrassing--like taking my kid to McDonald's or dying my hair. was there any special occasion that motivated you to do this (buy the suit) or did ya just figger it was time?

Tantric shopping does sound interesting--it's an interesting idea....but I don't think it would hold the same gratification as tantric sex (which has a reward a the end). I guess to make it really parallel, you tantric shop for several days/weeks and then you get to buy a really gorgeous article of clothing which brings you orgiastic pleasure.

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 19:23:07 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: onions,garlic,beans, alcohol,meat etc ...
Message:
YES, you too can ENHANCE yer meditation thru -

(sssshhhhh)

sshhhh ...


(how do spell fart?)


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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 16:10:43 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Is there anything you DON'T believe, Elaine?
Message:
Where were you when they were teaching discrimination? You're Shp all the way. Funny watching you and Keith competing for the gullibility prize.
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:29:52 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Except for great souls of course!
Message:
I've hear Jagdeo has had incredible experiences after his meeting with premies' children, that some initiators/instructors have had the same experience after raping naive female premies, that Charnanand is still enjoying wonderful and inspiring holidays with his girlfriend, that Padarthanand has quite of a harsh way starting making 'friend' with female premies, and a few other stories I don't remember right now ....

And these guys are supposed to have the highest experience of Mr Rawat's knowledge ..... So what's these onions and garlic story?

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:32:43 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Except for great souls of course!
Message:
...and these guys are supposed to have the highest exp of Mr Rawat's kn....

Well, there you have it.

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:38:00 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: J - M
Subject: Except for great souls of course!
Message:
Oh....onions etc.

Ever sit in meditation and just start 'going' into a very incredible experience - as in the meditation of your life even ----and gee!! all of a sudden your digestive system decides it needs to BURP!....well, it's a big no-no for anyone that is serious about a deep meditation.

Brings you right down. No big secret. Enjoy.

Elaine

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:29:22 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: In the group meditations ......
Message:
My farts could be very uplifting ( only for me ). Have you noticed that the only one to find a fart amusing is the manfacturer? I think the fact that we fart is on of the greatest examples of the creator's sense of humour.

Faaaart ,

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 20:12:39 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: great souls who - of course! - never fart ????
Message:
great souls who - of course! - never fart ????
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:37:32 (GMT)
From: gERry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Except for great souls of course!
Message:
Uh oh, I'm starting to have a creeping dislike of the statements of our resident premie Elaine.

Neti, neti, Elaine...

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:41:04 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: gERry
Subject: Except for great souls of course!
Message:
That's ok,Gerry. Please, don't let it get you down or ruin this gorgeous day.

Elaine

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:53:32 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Except for great souls of course!
Message:

Don't worry about me, I'm ok even if the weather sucks today. Really Elaine, you should exam some of the concepts you banter around here. They sounds so superstitious and stultifying. But then, you're in a cult so I guess that's par for the course.
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 15:07:25 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Except for great souls of course!
Message:
Which particular concept this time?

If it's about that sex thing and having a better exp abstaining - remember I didn't bring it up - and I really don't know what I'm talking about. :)

PS-'Worry' is not in my vocabulary,even.

Elaine

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 15:15:20 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: OK here's a concept...
Message:
I think they would transform the act using Tantric practices to something very spectacular.If they felt the need or desire to have their energy go to that chakra.

Now if that doesn't sound like an old hindu superstition, then what does?

And stultifying, yes. How would you like to be married to an 'abstainer?' 'Oh, sorry, not tonight, dear, I'm abstaining' so I can have a really cosmic meditation tomorrow.'

No thanks. I like mine with lottsa onions and garlic.

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 15:30:30 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: OK here's a concept...
Message:
Gerry,

Had to look up stultify - was finally in the 3rd dictionary.Thanks for the new word.

Yes, I said, 'I THINK they would transform...'. I can only imagine - I've never known an enlightened one.

But, if you're serious - how would I like to be married to an 'abstainer' - gee, Gerry - no offense - but, I'd rather get it once in awhile from someone practising Tantra and knowing how to guide us both into an outta sight experience - and probably many times over ----than to be w/ someone eating garlic and onions and burping the whole time.

Quality. Yes, that is what I would pick.

And it is not superstition (Hindu, old or otherwise) to transform energy from the 2nd chakra to something extremely extraordinary.

IMO,Elaine

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 16:55:15 (GMT)
From: red butler
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Common misconception
Message:
'Oh here HE comes,' Marolyn muttered to herself, thinking the fucking 'great king' had come to bed early to relieve himself. It was bad enough the nights he stumbled in smelling like that barfy cognac and then just passed out. She could take the smelly feet thing and the garlicy b.o. but she was damned if she was gonna sniff his crotch again tonight. Little peckerhead, he really liked his blow jobs and thankfully it was usually over quickly, but god, she wished some one had told him about 'western' standards of hygiene. 'Everybody's too goddam scared around here to tell him the truth, myself included,' she thought. Some how the old same old, same old just wasn't working for her anymore.
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 17:28:31 (GMT)
From: Ealine
Email: None
To: red butler
Subject: Common indeed... and so...
Message:
...so she picked up the phone and dialed direct from her push button directory to Sai Baba and asked him for any American boy's phone numbers that were in the Malibu area that evening....
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 17:38:18 (GMT)
From: red butler
Email: None
To: Ealine
Subject: Common indeed... and so...
Message:
Ealine responded:
...so she picked up the phone and dialed direct from her push button directory to Sai Baba and asked him for any American boy's phone numbers that were in the Malibu area that evening....


This is not the direction in which my story is going. All Malibu Vignettes are copyright the author. Please do not interfere. Thank you very much.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:02:48 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: red butler
Subject: Attempted target-diversion by 'Ealine' no? (nt)
Message:
Attempted target-evasion by 'Ealine' no? (nt)
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 22:31:19 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Oh yes, cq has found out my secret agenda....nt
Message:
om
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:20:35 (GMT)
From: Another Snicker
Email: None
To: red butler
Subject: You Go Red (N.T.)
Message:
gggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 19:31:07 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Another Snicker
Subject: What a concept for a website! Don't stop! (nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 17:41:36 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: red butler
Subject: snicker.....
Message:
I know that I am excempt , no?
either way I LOVE IT!!
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 16:33:14 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: garlicandonions
Message:
are actually delightful foods and they don't usually, ah, repeat on me, so I'm fine with them. If you both indulge you won't notice it on your lover, either.

According to the blood type diet meme, onions and garlic are highly beneficial for people with blood types A and O and good food for B's and AB's, in other words, everyone.

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 15:49:03 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: OK here's a concept...
Message:
Does it strike you as 'curious that in the whole time of your involvement with Maharaji that you've 'never known an enlightened one.'

Should we add 'enlightenment' to our collection of concepts?

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 17:30:59 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: OK here's a concept...
Message:
Yes, I believe we could,there,Gerry.
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 09:53:42 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Copyrights free!! Maharaji vs. Exes' Websites!
Message:
Maharaji vs. Exes' Websites

The saga now online, and updated. Don't miss the next chapter!!

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 05:45:37 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: News from Boston: check the Ritz Hotel
Message:
and watch what's going on there ........

The Lord of the Universe will be in the vicinity!!

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 13:29:08 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Now that I've outed his hole
Message:
they will very likely relocate it, but the information will be here as soon as they'll decide it.

Keep an eye on the forum !!

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 12:54:16 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Maharaji
Subject: Welcome to Boston
Message:
Now let's see...what is an appropriate gift from Boston?
Some Boston Baked Beans? Nooooooo
Some Clam Chowda? Noooooooo
Some Lobsta? Nooooooooo
A case of Sam Adams Ale? Noooooooo
A pair of tickets to the Boston Red Sox Game? Nooooooooooo
Boston Cream Pie? hhhhmmmmmmmmmm

I have a friend who is a porter at the Ritz, I'll see if he can deliver.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 00:46:33 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Careful!
Message:
Jondon,

Not to seem like a nit or anything but, well, this is going to seem ridiculous but, well, okay ....

You can't threaten anyone here. Yes, I'm afraid that includes even farcical references to cream pies. Stupid? Yes and I hasten to add I've been guilty myself of skirting close to the line (I once said I'd like to squeeze the face of a particularly unctious, ELK idiot. In retrospect, I can see that that gets close.)

So, point is, if you're planning on throwing a cream pie at Maharaji -- not that you are, of course -- don't mention it in advance here first.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 04:36:05 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Careful!
Message:
I would not be the one to throw the pie. I'd never get close enough and would'nt want to suffer the repurcutions of getting my ass kicked by his bodyguards. But if he makes himself available in a public place where someone may just happen to have a pie..........
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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 23:13:09 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Beware of anyone holding a hammer
Message:
You've heard of the pie-throwing / Fakiranand / hammer incident?
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 02:15:48 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: VISIONS: THEY WILL NEVER RELEASE OLD FILMS
Message:
06.08.00
Visions International has stated bluntly that they will not EVER make those old films available, of the boy guru and so-called Lord of the Universe. It seems that they are afraid to release them, as it would prove the correctness of their critics. If they have nothing to hide, then they should proudly show them to anyone interested in 'Maharaji' (what a humble title!). I thought to share this with all the ex premies, as I persistently have asked Visions about these videos, but they informed me it is a dead end -- they refuse to make them available -- ever !!!
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 02:52:17 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: VISIONS: THEY WILL NEVER RELEASE OLD FILMS
Message:
My roomy got the visions catalogue today. I took out the insert since he never orders anything and I ordered one copy of LOTU.
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 02:58:35 (GMT)
From: Uncertain
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Phoenix?
Message:
Jondon: What is the phoenix? Have you seen it?
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 10:50:27 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Uncertain
Subject: Phoenix?
Message:
The Phoenix is a local arts rag. Similar to the one posted two weeks ago from Rhode Island. Have not seen it yet.
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 05:43:32 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Uncertain
Subject: Phoenix, Jondon, Gilead-wow names! Welcome NT
Message:
):-)
Nice to see you here
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 21:45:49 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: Phoenix, Jondon, Gilead-wow names! Welcome NT
Message:
Thanks for the welcome, and the name recognition that we so much deserve. Peace.
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 02:14:50 (GMT)
From: aziz
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Extra D.C. program on June 17
Message:
I have been informed that an extra D.C. program has been
announced. It will be on June 17, the day before the
Father's day program. It will start at the same time,
10 AM, and will be at the same location. This was probably
due to an apparent overbooking of the Sunday program.
A second session is in the PM. The location is:

Hilton Alexandria Mark Center, Plaza Ballroom
5000 Seminary Road
Alexandria, VA

Whether this one will get overbooked, don't know.
Based on the other programs, I suppose that:

You must reserve a seat in advance.

An entry pass is required, as it is ONLY for
people with Knowledge. A pass can be obtained at
the venue beginning at 8 AM on the 17th (they say
please arrive as close to 8 as you can) and perhaps
between 4-8 PM the day before.

An non-mandatory 'seat reservation fee' of $30
is requested. More money is greatly appreciated.
A little appreciation anyone? However, they say
there is no admission fee.

If you don't have a form, you could try faxing
your name and address (and voice phone number,
don't know if that's required) to 818-707-6373.
Don't know if this will work.

After June 11, you can call 818-707-6384 to see if
any seats are left at any programs.

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 11:48:55 (GMT)
From: desert-angel
Email: None
To: aziz
Subject: Extra D.C. program on June 17
Message:
maharaji is such an asshole!
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 09:29:13 (GMT)
From: Premie Moles Needed
Email: None
To: aziz
Subject: Extra D.C. program on June 17
Message:
Thanks-suggest you employ Operation Clusterfuck to set up the real ACTION the following day
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 23:48:33 (GMT)
From: Maharaji Responsibility
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Campaign- Those in Boston check out the Phoenix!
Message:
and check this out too:

www.openlettertomaharaji.org


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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 15:49:20 (GMT)
From: One voice
Email: None
To: Maharaji Responsibility
Subject: to premie lurkers
Message:
Dear Premie lurkers especially those in a position to discuss this with Mr. Rawat,

Please look at this letter with an open mind, I suppose in your language an open heart. This is the real solution. This is the solution to his concerns about propagation. This is the solution to dealing with ex premies. It is also, by any honest standard, the right thing to do.

He needs to deal with his critics face on. Read the Krishnamurti speech on ex premie.org. Envision a future in which he faces his past.

It would be very powerful. It would be very healing. For everyone.

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 17:33:05 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: One voice
Subject: to premie lurkers
Message:
Can you or someone do one of those direct links to Krishnamurti's last latter.

Thank you,
Elaine

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 18:27:54 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: To Elaine re link to K letter
Message:
Go to the home page of this website, click on 'links' and scroll down.
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 08:14:07 (GMT)
From: rupee murdoch
Email: None
To: Maharaji Responsibility
Subject: Campaign- Those in Boston check out the Phoenix!
Message:
Great letter, and I agree with JM-can you get a link to the EPO site from the letter?
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 06:10:35 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Maharaji Responsibility
Subject: Great letter, but why don't you include
Message:
a link to ex-premie.org on that page?

I can help you do that, if you email me asap

Jean-Michel
jmkahn@club-internet.fr

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 05:37:38 (GMT)
From: Maharaji Responsbility
Email: None
To: Maharaji Responsibility
Subject: Campaign- Boston Phoenix Newspaper
Message:
The Boston Phoenix is a widely circulated newspaper in the Boston area. The current issue of the paper (June 8) contains an advertisement about Maharaji, (with a picture) stating that the former '14 year old Perfect Master' is in Boston on June 12 and contains the web address: openlettertomaharaji.org where there is a letter that the Maharaji Responsbility Campaign hopes that Prem Pal Singh Rawat will take to heart and respond to in good faith.

Anyone in the Boston area should check out the June 8 edition of the Boston Phoenix for the ad, and also read the letter at the website. All comments and questions are encouraged.

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 03:09:29 (GMT)
From: rupee murdoch
Email: None
To: Maharaji Responsibility
Subject: Campaign- Those in Boston check out the Phoenix!
Message:
Great idea,great letter...
would love to hear if there are any responses and how many...
congratulations,MRC,whoever you are..
By the way, who are you?
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 18:11:27 (GMT)
From: MRC
Email: None
To: rupee murdoch
Subject: Campaign- Those in Boston check out the Phoenix!
Message:
The Maharaji Responsibility Campaign is a group of premies, ex-premies, and families and friends of both, who got together and decided to give Maharaji the chance to do the honorable thing, and be honest about himself and his past, which heretofore he has not been. Hence, the letter was drafted, put on the internet and an ad was taken out in the Boston Phoenix letting people know about this endeavor.

If you haven't seen the ad in the Boston paper, it is in the 'Mind Body Spirit' section of the paper, has a picture of Maharaji with the words:

'REMEMBER THE 14 YEAR OLD PERFECT MASTER?'
'HE'S STILL HERE'
'JUNE 12, 2000 COPELY THEATRE'
'WWW.OPENLETTERTOMAHARAJI.ORG'

The MRC group is not affiliated with any other group, and is not associated with the individuals who operate the ex-premie.org website, although we do appreciate that this forum exists so that our views can be discussed.

As far as we know, this is the first attempt to publicly try to reach Maharaji, premies, ex-premies and others who are interested in the rather bizarre history of Prem Pal Singh Rawat in the West, and to try to address the many problems and concerns that remain about what he has be up to over the years.

We hope that the results will be positive for everyone involved.

The open letter to Maharaji can be viewed at:

www.openlettertomaharaji.org

Please feel free to contact us at our email address:

MaharajiResponsbilityCampaign@hotmail.com

Maharaji Responsbility Campaign

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 07:51:39 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: rupee murdoch
Subject: And who are you rupee? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 02:01:48 (GMT)
From: Uncertain
Email: None
To: Maharaji Responsibility
Subject: What is the Phoenix?
Message:
Why should someone look at it?
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:19:38 (GMT)
From: Jolly
Email: None
To: campaign
Subject: good work! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 21:31:57 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Keith and everyone
Subject: Within inside - as opposed to ...
Message:
Keith recently started a thread (called 'no regrets' - now in the inactive index) in which he gave a couple examples of what he calls the 'simple philosophical truths' that the Maha spouts.

'Life is a gift to be enjoyed' and 'each breath is so precious' being two of them.

I challenged him to come up with some more - like 12 would be a good start. Too many? OK let's make it another 6, and remember - no repetition!

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 13:35:27 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Hi guys.. here are 19 things the......
Message:
Dalai Lama said which I read recently... What do you think?

The Dalai Lama's instructions for life.

1. Take into account that great love and great achievements involve great risk.

2. When you lose, don't lose the lesson.

3. Follow the three R's: Respect for self, Respect for others, Responsibility for all your actions.

4. Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a great stroke of luck.

5. Learn from the rules, so you know how to break them properly.

6. Don't let a little dispute ruin a great friendship.

7. When you realise you've made a mistake take immediate steps to correct it.

8.Spend some time alone every day.

9. Open your arms to change but don't let go of your values.

10. Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.

11. Live a good, honourable life. Then when you get older and think back, you'll be able to enjoy it a second time.

12. A loving atmosphere in your home is the foundation of your life.

13. In disagreement with loved ones, deal only with the current situation. Don't bring up the past.

14. Share your knowledge, it's a way to achieve immortality.

15.Be gentle with the earth.

16. Once a year go someplace you've never been before.

17. Remember that the best relationship is one in which yor love for each other exceeds your need for each other.

18. Judge your succes by what you had to give up in order to get it.

19. Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon.

I thought these were very down to earth, unpretentious and wise.

Hal

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 00:15:32 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: the Dalai Lama did not necessarily ever say . .
Message:
Hi Hal,

They might be 'down to earth, unpretentious and wise,' but they're definitely not from the Dalai Lama, and a variation on this has been posted here a couple of months ago as coming from the DL - same confusion).

In January 99 I got a Nepali Good Luck Tantra Totem (a pic) forwarded to me from a friend, along with 45 'Instructions for Life,' of which many are the same as on your list (maybe all), including the last, which is personally one of my least favourite (how could the DL ever have said that?!). It was a chain letter supposed to bring you good luck in proportion to how many people you sent it too. Part of it has also been reprinted in Ann Landers.

Anyways, there you go, lots of these pithy 'truths' floating around, and don't know how this idea that these originated from the Dalai Lama ever happened, but don't want to see it go further.

Where did you read that he said these things - I'd love to know. The list I have includes 'Trust in God, but lock your car.', 'Believe in love at first sight.' and 'Never interupt when you're being flattered.' (yuch!!!) A few good ones, but lots of garbage, IMO.

Stonor

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 18:22:28 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Hal and cq
Subject: question to Hal and cq re: Dalai Lama +
Message:
Hi guys,

Could you explain to me why you seem to be down on the Dalai Lama? (or maybe I'm misunderstanding) But I would like to know. Most exes seem to know far more about these 'Eastern religion issues' than I do.

And cq, you don't seem to be posting too many jokes lately (but doing a great job in other areas!), so I'll try to pick up some of the slack. Here's one on chain letters, like the 'good luck' one I mentioned in the post above, and I just got this one from the guy that sent me that.

Hello, my name is Basmati Kasaar. I am suffering from rare and deadly diseases, poor scores on final exams, extreme virginity, fear of being kidnapped and executed by anal electrocution, and guilt for not forwarding out 50 billion fucking chain letters sent to me by people who actually believe that if you send them on, then that poor 6 year old girl in Arkansas with a breast on her forehead will be able to raise enough money to have it removed before her redneck parents sell her off to the travelling freak show.

Do you honestly believe that Bill Gates is going to give you and
everyone you send 'his' email to $1000? How stupid are you?

Ooooh,
lookyhere!

If I scroll down this page and make a wish, I'll get laid by every Playboy model in the magazine! What a bunch of bullshit.

So basically, this message is a big FUCK YOU to all the people out there who have nothing better to do than to send me stupid chain mail forwards. Maybe the evil chain letter leprechauns will come into my apartment and sodomize me in my sleep for not continuing the chain which was started by Jesus in 5A.D. and was brought to this country by midget pilgrims on the Mayflower and if it makes it to the year 2000, it'll be in the Guinness Book of World Records for longest continuous streak of blatant stupidity.

Fuck them. If you're going to forward something, at least send me
something mildly amusing. I've seen all the 'send this to 50 of your closest friends, and this poor, wretched excuse for a human being will somehow receive a nickel from some omniscient being' forwards about 90 times. I don't fucking care. Show a little intelligence and think about what you're actually contributing to by sending out forwards. Chances are it's your own unpopularity.

THE FOUR BASIC TYPES OF CHAIN LETTERS:

Chain Letter Type 1:
(scroll down)
Make a wish!!!
No, really, go on and make one!!!
Oh please, they'll never go out with you!!! Wish something else!!!
Not that, you pervert!!
Is your finger getting tired yet?
STOP!!!!
Wasn't that fun? :)
Hope you made a great wish :)
Now, to make you feel guilty, here's what I'll do. First of all, if you don't send this 5096 people in the next 5 seconds, you will be raped by a mad goat and thrown off a high building into a pile of manure. It's true! Because, THIS letter isn't like all of those fake ones, THIS one is TRUE!! Really!!! Here's how it goes:
*Send this to 1 person: One person will be pissed off at you for sending
them a stupid chain letter.
*Send this to 2-5 people: 2-5 people will be pissed off at you for
sending them a stupid chain letter.

*Send this to 5-10 people: 5-10 people will be pissed off at you for
sending them a stupid chain letter, and may form a plot on your life.

*Send this to 10-20 people: 10-20 people will be pissed off at you for
sending them a stupid chain letter and will firebomb your house.

Thanks!!!! Good Luck!!!

Chain Letter Type 2
Hello, and thank you for reading this letter. You see, there is a
starving little boy in Baklaliviatatlaglooshen who has no arms, no legs, no parents, and no goats. This little boy's life could be saved, because for every time you pass this on, a dollar will be donated to the Little Starving Legless Armless Goatless Boy from Baklaliviatatlaglooshen Fund. Oh, and remember, we have absolutely no way of counting the emails sent and this is all a
complete load of bullshit. So go on, reach out. Send this to 5 people in the next 47 seconds. Oh, and a reminder - if you accidentally send this to 4 or 6 people, you will die instantly. Thanks again!!

Chain Letter Type 3
Hi there!! This chain letter has been in existence since 1897. This is absolutely incredible because there was no email then and probably not as many sad pricks with nothing better to do. So this is how it works:
Pass this on to 15,067 people in the next 7 minutes or something
horrible will happen to you like:

*Bizarre Horror Story #1
Miranda Pinsley was walking home from school on Saturday. She had
recently received this letter and ignored it. She then tripped in a crack in the sidewalk, fell into the sewer, was gushed down a drainpipe in a flood of poopie, and went flying out over a waterfall. Not only did she smell nasty, she died. This Could Happen To You!!!

*Bizarre Horror Story #2
Dexter Bip, a 13 year old boy, got a chain letter in his mail and
ignored it. Later that day, he was hit by a car and so was his boyfriend (hey, some people swing that way). They both died and went to hell and were cursed to eat adorable kittens every day for eternity. This Could Happen To You Too!!!
Remember, you could end up just like Pinsley and Bip. Just send this letter to all of your loser friends, and everything will be okay.

Chain Letter Type 4:
As if you care, here is a poem that I wrote. Send it to every one of your friends.

Friends:
A friend is someone who is always at your side,

A friend is someone who likes you even though you stink of shit, and your breath smells like you've been eating catfood,

A friend is someone who likes you even though you're as ugly as a hat full of assholes,

A friend is someone who cleans up for you after you've soiled yourself, A friend is someone who stays with you all night while you cry about your sad, sad life,

A friend is someone who pretends they like you when they really think you should be raped by mad chimpanzees, then thrown to vicious dogs,

A friend is someone who scrubs your toilet, vacuums and then gets the check and leaves and doesn't speak much English...

* no, sorry that's the cleaning lady,

A friend is not someone who sends you chain letters because he wants his wish of being rich to come true.
Now pass this on! If you don't, you'll never have sex ever again. The point being? If you get some chain letter that's threatening to leave you shagless or luckless for the rest of your life, delete it. If it's funny, send it on.
Don't piss people off by making them feel guilty about a leper in
Botswana with no teeth, who's been tied to a dead elephant for 27 years, whose only saviour is the 5 cents per letter he'll receive if you forward this mail, otherwise you'll end up like Miranda. Right?

Now forward this to everyone you know otherwise you'll have to look at me naked!

BK


Okay, so it's not as funny as most of cq's (what was that about Molly and Me?) At least I have followed the unwritten law of some vague link to the topic sort of at hand. ;-) Actually, I used list of 'Instructions for Life' with a first year high school English class in adult ed (ie. mostly recent immigrants), trying to develop their critical thinking a bit - without much success, if I remember correctly. It's amazing how unquestioning people are about what they read and hear - not just premmies! ;-)

Stonor


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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 21:54:10 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Dalai Lama, chain e-mails, and FWD's (ot)
Message:
Hi Stonor -
I thought your post was pretty funny, especially since I've gotten ALL those types of chain letters. I also get SO many FWD's - jokes, 'inspirational stories', etc., that I have had to ask several people not to send me stuff like that anymore. My sister-in-law sends me ALL kinds of things - especially the kind that either warns about some horrible catastrophe or scam that's going on, or is supposed to entitle the writer of the letter to something free if they send enough e-mails out.

The chain e-mail that I get the most is about the petition about mistreatment of women in Afghanistan, even though the poor people whose e-mails are on that letter have tried and tried to tell people that they are NOT collecting addresses, names, etc. for this cause, and that their mailboxes have been flooded, are unusable. It makes me angry that someone would use an issue that is a real problem to do an e-mail scam.

Re: the Dalai Lama - I honestly doubt that that 'Instructions for Life' is from the Dalai Lama - for one thing, it sure doesn't sound like anything I've ever heard him say - it's very idiomatic and very Western. I think that whoever wrote it probably just put the Dalai Lama's name on it to get attention. I think they've done the Dalai Lama a disservice, to tell you the truth. It sounds more like 'Life's Little Instruction Book' (yuk - sorry, Hal) or something like that to me.

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 18:50:47 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Reply to Stonor
Message:
Hi Stonora,

I am down on the Dalai Lama? Why do you think that? I read these 19 points in the last issue of Kindred Spirits magazine and thought they were really from the D.L as it said. How do you know they're not? I just assumed they were genuine as they were quoted in a reputable magazine. I liked them as they were a contrast to much of the high falutin' type of stuff that other 'spiritual' teachers come out with.I like the Dalai Lama.

Anyway, whoever those quotes came from they're ok by me.

Best wishes Stonora.
Hal

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 19:35:00 (GMT)
From: Stonora
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Hi Hal
Message:
Hi Hal,

Nice to hear from you, and interesting response. Kindred Spirits magazine? Hmmmm. Do they provide anymre details about their source? What was the context that this list was printed in. Well, like I said, I really think there's some confusion being propagated through those lists, and I explained why, and now I'd really like to get to the bottom of this. Maybe that search engine wizard cq can help.

Glad I misunderstood about your attitude toward the D.L. - I thought you were being sarcastic. Like I said, some of them are fine, but so are lots of 'truisms.' And have you ever tried loving or cooking with 'reckless abandon?' It can get pretty messy in more ways than one ;-)

And BTW, I never got a chance to tell you how much I enjoyed being referred to as 'old chap' by you way back when! But you know, I really like the Stonora.

Think I'll get nailed for posting under two names?

I'm dreaming of sunny Portugal as my furnace kicks in yet again, and my melon transplants sit sadly waiting for warmer weather so they can dig their roots into real earth and really grow!

Take care,

Stonora

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 14:14:46 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Stonora
Subject: Hi Stonora (ot)
Message:
Nice to hear from you too. I started to type Stonor but found that it was such a masculine sounding name and felt strange knowing the gender to which you belong. In the Latin countries the feminine nouns have an A at the end, hence Stonora. Glad you didn't take offence at the alteration.

Well probably the Dalai Lama stuff was fake I guess. It was on a page where readers send in quotes they like. No authentication was given. Yeah lots of truisms but there really isn't much that we haven't already heard anymore, is there? I am rather partial to smiling shaven headed holy men in orange , maroon or yellow robes. That's what attracted me to the ' Knowledge '. Were you aware that the Mahtmas of Maharaji in the early days all wore robes and many of the men had those buddhist type shaved heads?

Love to you
Hal

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 14:44:28 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: This guy really IS a philosopher
Message:
'Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.'
(dalai lama)

Wow, wonder what Mr Rawat would make of that idea!


PS What festival were you talking of earlier?

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:20:34 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Chris
Message:
Hallo Chris,
Hope you're doing well. Festival , wot festival. Can't recall mentioning one and certainly haven't been to one for years. Maybe I was a little drunk at the time. Which reminds me, I found out that at Kissimee when the fat fella danced all night loads of people were tripping out on mushrooms. I was in the ashram at that time and feeling very tired from doing lots of gratitude. An old friend offered me a pick me up to help poor tired me stay awake. It was a handfull of mushrooms. During that rather colourful night I found that every premie I bumped into was out of it on mushrooms which were being donated free by some kind soul. I must say that was an extremely enjoyable nights dancing. More drugs, thats the answer. Wish someone would develop something with no harmful side effects. Don't some premie or anyone try to tell me that meditating and not eating garlic or onions before it compares with a good drug experience like pure ecstasy or LSD.

Anyway Chris take care.
Hal

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 15:36:22 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Ooops, that was Ham, not you Hal
Message:
Ooops, that was Ham, not you Hal, but seeing as our paths have crossed:

You mention 'harmful side-effects' - of mushrooms?

The only one I can remember from my liberty-cap days was of turning into a pixie (-back in my Rajneesh days - dressed all in orange/red!)

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 18:09:44 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Ooops, that was Ham, not you Hal
Message:
I think the ones we used to take were 'silly'cybin. They used to grow on Hampstead Heath amongst other places. Come to think of it they did have that tendency to transfom one into a pixie. Actually they didn't have side effects did they? I haven't taken anything like that for many years but maybe I'm ripe for it. My kids are teenagers, I've done my duty, so time for a return to more carefree days perhaps!

Take care old chap. Hal

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 19:36:21 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: That's the shrooms for ya, and the bru!
Message:
The only side effects I've ever experienced was when I was caning them, early nineties,

for about three weeks I was doing at least 50 a day and my skin starting turning yellow!

Apart from that no problems, although because I feel more fully myself after, I start seeing all too quickly the LEVEL of bullshit everywhere a little too keenly, and that can be very boring to deal with, since there is no way of dealing with it that I know of, apart from switching off to it all, and my head never gives me joy in that department.

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 20:01:19 (GMT)
From: Ham
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Hamzen, Hi, I thought the mention of altered ...
Message:
states might attract you. Nice to hear from you. Hope you're groovin' along finely and that you're enjoying life in the picturesque East End of Londinium.

All the best Hal

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 14:35:22 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Ham
Subject: The sounds are a blastin' my man (ot)
Message:
Every full moon period we're kept awake for miles around with that pounding bass. The summers been a bit tardy in coming here too but I think it's set in now. Current weather conditions 24c at night 30ish during the day.

I'd like to meet you one day so try and make it over.

Cheers Hal.

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Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 21:26:26 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: ham@hamzen.fsnet.co.uk
To: Hal
Subject: The sounds are a blastin' my man (ot)
Message:
I'll be up for that Hal, wanna e-mail us, and I'll get back to ya for times & dates, mind you just as I was getting sorted financially they've fuckin' slashed me hours, so it'll have to be well co-ordinated on timing etc!

Only every full moon? not weekly?

big smiles & loads of jealousy for the man wit' the tan
from the man without 1
:)

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 21:22:46 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Don't you dare mention the weather...!!!
Message:
We're having one of those summers that is really early spring!!!

Have the sound systems starting kicking off your end yet?

Here's thinking of ya in t-shirts at midnight,

and me imagining us swapping places!

ha

have a good one hal

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 20:58:58 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: cq
Subject: And both are cliches and hardly original..(nt)
Message:
Ha-ha, I bet you all clicked anyway, after my last thread about 'nt' posts, didn't you?

Well tough titty! There ain't no content worth the reading in here - in fact if you have read this far I can guarantee you are wasting your time, squandering your precious life and God knows how many happy new breaths. So, for your own sake, just click your 'back' button right NOW, OK?

Right, did you do that? No, obviously not, so perhaps someone would care to explain what the effing hell you are doing still reading this crap when I told you half a dozen sentences back that there is absolutely NO substance in what follows. Not a sausage. Zilch, zip, zero... Not a whispered whiff of mind-blowing rhetoric or the thrilling cut and thrust of verbal repartee or bollock-busting badinage, no palette-pleasing polemics or extemporaneous exposition or finely honed homily...

Oh, what the hell, I'm getting bored now, too, so I might as well tell you a joke (from Spike Milligan):

Man loses his dog and places a small-ad in the local paper:
'Here boy!', he writes.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 22:21:19 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: The numbers game..
Message:
cq. You really push and prod don't you. I'm sure I could watch a Maharaji video, (I still have about 80 of the critters) and quote more than 12 philosophical gems from most of them. But are we not losing the point here. You know that the real objections to Maharaji are elsewhere. Even an axe murderer could espouse philosophical gems. Let's not play number games. I was simply trying to make a point.
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 18:52:29 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: A very convenient avoidance, if I might say so ...
Message:
A very convenient avoidance, if I might say so ...

... and I'll get back to you tomorrow ...

(avoidance? - or simply postponing the issue? Well, which is it to be?)

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:16:47 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: The numbers game..
Message:
Keith, there are other objections about Maharaj Ji made elsewhere on this site. But one of my biggest beefs about Maharaj Ji is exactly what cq brings up: there is so little substance to His message. I asked you a week or so ago to tell us exactly what does Maharaj Ji 'bring to the table.' Not much, as far as I can tell, especially when compared to other spiritual teachers. Meditate, find the peace within, and...?

The answer usually given is that most teachers needlessly complicate a very simple matter, and that's why Maharaji says nothing particularly profound. Well, that's a matter of opinion, I guess. Mine is that spiritual transformation involves a lot of issues because people are messy, and some teachers have helped me through the process with their remarks. Has Maharaj Ji done the same for you? How?

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 05:27:31 (GMT)
From: keith
Email: None
To: Gregg and cq
Subject: The numbers game..
Message:
okay. If I have to focus my precious energy this way. If I have to qualify my obviously
contentious statement. I find it really somewhat amazing that even ex premies could
believe that Maharaji had no profound message. So if I am to not watch his videos
which I don't want to do at this time, and extract all those philosophical profundities I
referred to, then I'll need a little scope given to my attempt to reformulate in my own
words. Afterall I do not have an exact memory recall.
1; People all around the world, regardless of their superficial differances, all speak
the same language on a deeper level. The language of seeking happiness and
contentment and meaning.
2; In this quest people try to understand mentally but often get confused. Concepts
replace real understanding. Our ingenious capacity to conceptualise creates so many
psuedo realities which do not bring us the joy or peace we seek or at least are capable
of achieving.
3; We mostly seek for answers,solutions and happiness through external means,
which are limited, and cannot bring one 'that' which one must discover internally.
4; Even when we turn inwards seeking 'the promised land' we tend to complicate
matters. We need to learn simplicity. And to become empty.
5; We need to listen with our hearts ,rather than from our intellectual minds.
6; We need to learn how to listen with the heart. The ego does not give up its psuedo
supremacy easily.
7; This 'understanding'is within everyone potentially.
8; A simple and genuine smile which emanates from deep within is an external
expression 'that' deeper understanding and experience.
9; We are conditioned from birth to lose our innate capacity to feel and perceive
things sanely. We are robbed of our jewels. And it is our deepest calling to
re-discover them.
10; This 'knowledge' is free from all finite differances. It is truly for everyone. The
spirit is truly universal.
Now it is true that I am colouring Maharaji's words with my own but this is what I
hear. And so much else have I 'heard' and felt. This is not to therefore give Maharaji
immunity from all the many other criticisms that are made against him here. Should I
really get out a video and quote him directly?
It could be that the 10 philosophical wisdoms above may be considered by some here
as wanky new age empty meaningless mumbo jumbo's. Back to square one in that
case. Wisdom is in the consciousness of the beholder. That's enough now. I have
many householder duties to attend to. A fathers work is never done!

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 18:13:55 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: keith
Subject: 'focus your precious energy'? you could do better
Message:
So Mr Rawat, 'profound philospher' that you think him to be, says that
'Concepts replace real understanding.'

Sounds like a concept to me.

'We need to learn simplicity'

i.e. 'Let the Maha do all the thinking you require'

... and since he says you don't require any -

voila!

(and the rest of the repetitious, banal twaddle is simply designed to hypnotise you into thinking that his 'message' has a meaning beside: 'YOU NEED MAHARAJI')

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 14:40:35 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: keith
Subject: The numbers game..
Message:
'...if I have to focus my precious energy this way.If I have to qualify my obviously contentious statement...

Keith,

Please, remember - and repeat over and over,if you wish - 'I don't have to do anything.No one can make me do anything.'

Just trying to help,
Elaine :)

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Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 08:53:03 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: keith
Subject: The numbers game..
Message:
okay. If I have to focus my precious energy this way. If I have to qualify my obviously contentious statement. I find it really somewhat amazing that even ex-premies could believe that Maharaji had no profound message.
Well, his life has been a lie, with no genuine and honest relationships in it. People are entitled to suspect serial career liars have little of profound spiritual significance to say, n'est ce pas?
So if I am to not watch his videos which I don't want to do at this time, and extract all those philosophical profundities I referred to, then I'll need a little scope given to my attempt to reformulate in my own words.You speak for a God?! Blasphemy After all I do not have an exact memory recall.

1; People all around the world, regardless of their superficial differances, all speak the same language on a deeper level. The language of seeking happiness and contentment and meaning.How do you know? It does not seem to be true. Remember, some people sacrifice their lives for others - while some make their lives into a litany of explotation and lies. This does not auger well for attempts to prove we are, in some mystical sense, all seeking to (to be) the same thing.
2; In this quest people try to understand mentally but often get confused. Concepts replace real understanding. Our ingenious capacity to conceptualise creates so many psuedo realities which do not bring us the joy or peace we seek or at
least are capable of achieving.
The pseudo reality is created by spinners of maya and delusion like Mr Rawat and his fools. It is exactly concepts - of truth - of reason - of decent dealing - that protect us from charlatans like your pupper master.
3; We mostly seek for answers,solutions and happiness through external means, which are limited, and cannot bring one 'that' which one must discover internally.
Hmmm. So your puppet master enjoins on you the necessity of turning within and relying on your own wisdom? Not so - your puppet master enjoins you not to respect your own thoughts and feelings but to look only to the lies of Mr Rawat for guidance.
4; Even when we turn inwards seeking 'the promised land' we tend to complicate matters. We need to learn simplicity. And to become empty.
instead of filling yourself with nonsense videos and fatuous 'teachings', perhaps?
5; We need to listen with our hearts ,rather than from our intellectual minds.
Again, no. Mr Rawat tells you to leave no room for doubt in your heart. Liberation is NOT his game. His game is your enslavement. He's doing well...
6; We need to learn how to listen with the heart. The ego does not give up its psuedo supremacy easily.
Again, Mr Rawat does not teach people to listen with their heart. His techniques shut down the heart. PREMIES DON'T CARE - they take no action to improve the world but lazily fall for lies and illusion.
7; This 'understanding'is within everyone potentially.
So Mr Rawat should prove it by showing his ego can give up its psuedo supremacy
8; A simple and genuine smile which emanates from deep within is an external expression 'that' deeper understanding and experience.
So you can spot people with lnowledge from their smile? I'm suprised - one of the most laughable tings about your cult is that the special knowledge has no discernable effect - even I can pass as a Premie (switch off brain - switch on vacuous smile)
9; We are conditioned from birth to lose our innate capacity to feel and perceive things sanely. We are robbed of our jewels. And it is our deepest calling to re-discover them.
Actually, 'we' are not. Some of us are deliberately misled by charlatans, though.
10; This 'knowledge' is free from all finite differances. It is truly for everyone. The spirit is truly universal.
The 'knowledge' is for people who are willing to shrink thier heart to exclude everyone but your puppert master.
Now it is true that I am colouring Maharaji's words with my own
actually, you are completely misrepresenting things but this is what I hear. try listening And so much else have I 'heard' and felt. This is not to therefore give Maharaji immunity from all the many other criticisms that are made against him here. Should I really get out a video and quote him directly? Yes, of course. You know nothing - at least according to your master. Why should we listen to the monkey when we can listen to the organ grinder?
It could be that the 10 philosophical wisdoms above may be considered by some here as wanky new age empty meaningless mumbo jumbo's. You're making sense, at last Back to square one in that case. Yes. Now think and feel for yourself. That is where you will find true wisdom Wisdom is in the consciousness of the beholder. Then get your own consciousness. As you indicated, you were born with it, but later lost it. Get it back, quick! That's enough now. I have many householder duties to attend to. A fathers work is never done!Will you teach your children to sacrifice their minds and hearts to follow a false god?

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Date: Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 08:43:50 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: The numbers game..
Message:
As with others of your ilk you win top points for major assumptions based on minor detail. You take my words completely out of context. You assume so much that makes you in my eyes incapable of passing judgement on anyone including yourself I dare say. If you are willing and able to discover where I stand, what I believe and who I am then perhaps you might ask me a few questions rather than pontificate as if you were a world expert on matters that I consider you very blinkered, biased and narrowly impulsive. The post you responded to was very specifically part of a dialogue about whether Maharaji has had anything profound to say. I am not a premie. But I believe a lot of ex premies have gone from one extreme to another. From being extreme premies to being extreme ex-premies who utter extreme pronouncements. They still behave cultishly even though they profess to be out of the cult. To be continued if you humble yourself enough to communicate to me with some modicum of balance and common sense.
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 14:48:36 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: The numbers game..
Message:
Even my devout premie friends say M is not the most helpful teacher - they read Yogananda alot - Man's Eternal Quest and the like.
I do Ramakrishna,Vivekananda,Yogananda or anyone else I am lead to.Even the new metaphysical books out on all sorts of topics.

Right now - Caroline Myss,PhD - Spiritual Madness.

Elaine

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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 21:23:12 (GMT)
From: gilead
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Marianne, .....Peoples Temple....where are you?
Message:
Marianne,
a chara,
when you said you were legal counsel for Larry Layton, and that you had some information about the Peoples Temple, I was looking forward to discussing with you. Are you back from Eire in the Bay Area yet?
I lost your email, but hope you can share with me some of your experiences.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 23:08:01 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: gilead
Subject: Marianne, .....Peoples Temple....where are you?
Message:
Reach me at the above address.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 21:18:38 (GMT)
From: Larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Attention EV: Defamatory material back on-line...
Message:
If RT or any other would-be poet would like to contribute satirical verse for inclusion on larkin's pretend poetry page just send 'em in…

(The site is still under construction but growing daily.)

Let's keep those lawyers busy trying to sort the 'fair comment' from the factual inaccuracies...
>>>

Everything looked bright at first
Then it went from bad to worse
Lord of all the Universe
Got drunk and lost his way
He was just a little child
Soon by wealth and fame beguiled
Still they blissed out when he smiled
Although he’d nowt’ to say.

‘I will give you peace’ he said
Then he lined his purse instead…

So Fuck you Maharaji!
I’m saying Goodnight
Fuck you Maharaji
You’re so full of shi – I – I-I –I ite….
shi – I – I-I–I-I-I-I-I- ite….

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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 18:22:46 (GMT)
From: GAC
Email: None
To: Allison
Subject: Udderly Fascinating !
Message:
Dear Ms Alison,

Here's a bit of help for you as you try to unravel the the alleged copyright violations as charged by your client, the con artist formerly known as 'The Lord of the Universe'. I'm certain with your connections that the Department of Defense would be more than willing to discuss with you the nature of the SIKH/SANT MAT GROUP your client leads. BTW - of course we 'altared' the pictures. We had to you know. Otherwise it would look rather silly performing the ancient ritual of Arti (swinging a silver tray with a butter soaked cotton ball candle) in front of an Altar adorned with a picture of the 'Lord of the Universe'. As the old song goes, 'You are my mother, you are my father.'

Hey Alison. I've just cracked your case. Perhaps the altared pictures were altered by a devotee with an inherent Oedipus complex. Now we have an entirely new twist to your clients allegations. Wouldn't that devotee be protected by ADA Laws? Or.... perhaps the pictures were altered by one lascivious 'mahatma' (Great Soul) named Jagdeo (derived from ancient sanskrit name of JUGDOE ... meaning he who suckles doe's jugs) who had quite a penchant for well endowed pubescent teens. I would think this 'great soul' Jugdoe would feel much more comfortable performing the Arti Ritual in front of an altar adorned with an altered picture of your client formerly known as 'The Lord of the Universe' with mammary glands resembling 'cow udders' and everyone knows about the tradition of reverence toward cow or doe udders in India. I believe this condition is called 'udder fascination'.

Now, as far as the altered and animated 'Lord of the Universe' wonking his wanker, well... he was in that awkward teenage phase of wanking. Be at ease though Alison as the 14 year old wonker became a 15 year old recipient of wonking by a ready and willing bevy of gopis. In fact that's when he met the goddess Durga who was the best wonkerette of all.

Anyway.... here's your informational site from the Department of Defense... just scroll on down to Elan Vital:

DOD EV INFO






RELIGIOUS REQUIREMENTS AND PRACTICES table of contents chaplain CH


RELIGIOUS REQUIREMENTS AND PRACTICES


of Certain Selected Groups

A HANDBOOK FOR CHAPLAINS (1993) - (ONLINE EDITION - last updated 03 February 2000)


The work involved in developing and producing this handbook was
performed pursuant to contract number MDA903-90-C-0062 with the Department of Defense by


THE INSTITUTE FOR THE STUDY OF AMERICAN RELIGION


J. Gordon Melton, Project Director.  James R. Lewis, Senior
Research Associate



DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY -  OFFICE
OF THE CHIEF OF CHAPLAINS - WASHINGTON, D.C. 20310-2700



Nothing herein, including all internet links, shall be
construed to reflect the official position, policy or endorsement of the Department of the
Army, or of the Chief of Army Chaplains regarding the organization, beliefs, or doctrine
of the religious groups described in this manual. It contains information on these
selected religious groups provided by the groups themselves. Errors or changes may be
reported through official channels to the Chief of Army Chaplains.  Revisions to the original 1993 text are in the online version only and are
in red. Internet links to listed group sites in the online version are in
blue.  They are external sites to DOD
and are presented only for academic purposes.  There is no endorsement of any kind
for these sites and DOD takes no responsibility for their content.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 18:38:18 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: GAC
Subject: Udderly Tasteless and udderly irresistible !!!
Message:
Quote of the week ?

Be at ease though Alison as the 14 year old wonker became a 15 year old recipient of wonking by a ready and willing bevy of gopis. In fact that's when he met the goddess Durga who was the best wonkerette of all.

Nice job, GAC (LOL)

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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 05:28:43 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: ps aint it funny gods gotta get his teeth cleaned?
Message:
let's hope it don't become a *best*
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 18:57:14 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: agreed
Message:
GAC you are one of my favorite posters here.
a 'Just The Facts' with the facts and a sense of humour.
thanks so much.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:12:17 (GMT)
From: GAC
Email: None
To: Selene and Gerry
Subject: I'm flattered.....
Message:
but still trying to figure out this SIKH/SANT MAT GROUP religion I belonged to in the seventies and eighties.

Sounds like we were sick saints on floor mats. Hmmm.... typical ashram and festival accomodations for the peons.

GAC

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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:05:40 (GMT)
From: Just the Facts
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: agreed/but still No Thanks!!!
Message:
barf
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:13:38 (GMT)
From: GAC
Email: None
To: Just the Facts
Subject: Hey JtF what's your problem?
Message:
GAC
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:20:09 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: GAC
Subject: something touched a nerve and..
Message:
the blowup doll sprung a leak.
Just a guess :)
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:27:18 (GMT)
From: Just the Facts
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: something touched a nerve and..
Message:
N.B. that is a virus free blow-up doll
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:41:55 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Just the Facts
Subject: very factual
Message:
reveals so little. Except perhaps that you shop well for sex toys.
How easy it is for you to answer the no brainers.
Yet you didn't answer my post below. Where I mentioned I have posted my identity both in pictures and in my real name.
How easy for you to attack behind your alias. And all for what? because I mentioned
having received the same 5 commandments as Joe did.
Why would that bother you?
As GAC asked, what IS your problem Just The Facts?
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 15:36:49 (GMT)
From: Just the Facts
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: very factual/Apology accepted
Message:
Just kidding! please accept my apology as I had a large stick up my butt....
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Date: Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 15:55:49 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Just the Facts
Subject: well then, see? I wasn't that far off! :)
Message:
sorry couldn't resist. Thanks. I had a tough couple of days and
was on a short fuse. And now, to try to make me feel better, the boss is taking me out for Indian food.
oh well. It's the thought that counts. Appreciate your message.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 17:05:53 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Watch out!
Message:
>From Weekly World News via The Register

US preacher finds demon-possessed PCs

Forget about viruses and malicious hackers; the real threat these days is far more insidious. Your home computer may be host to a demon, and you and your family may well come under its malevolent control, the Weekly World News reports.

'While the Computer Age has ushered in many advances, it has also opened yet another door through which Lucifer and his minions can enter and corrupt men's souls,' the paper quotes the Reverend Jim Peasboro, author of an upcoming book, The Devil in the Machine, as saying.

Demons are able to possess anything with a brain, from a chicken to a human being. And today's thinking machines have enough space on their hard drives to accommodate Satan or his pals, the paper reports.

Disk capacity is an issue, however. Only a PC built after 1985 has the storage capacity to house an evil spirit, the minister explained.

The Georgia clergyman says he became aware of the problem from counseling churchgoers. 'I learned that many members of my congregation became in touch with a dark force whenever they used their computers,' he said.

'Decent, happily married family men were drawn irresistibly to pornographic Web sites and forced to witness unspeakable abominations.

'Housewives who had never expressed an impure thought were entering Internet chat rooms and found themselves spewing foul, debasing language they would never use normally,' he declared.

'One woman wept as she confessed to me, 'I feel when I'm on the computer as if someone else or something else just takes over.''

The minister said he probed one such case, actually logging onto the parishioner's computer himself. To his horror, an artificial-intelligence program started spontaneously.

'The program began talking directly to me, openly mocked me,' he
recalls. 'It typed out, 'Preacher, you are a weakling and your God is a damn liar.''

Then the device went haywire and started printing out what looked like gobbledygook.

'I later had an expert in dead languages examine the text,' the minister said. 'It turned out to be a stream of obscenities written in a 2,800-year-old Mesopotamian dialect!'

The minister estimates that one in ten computers in America now hosts some type of evil spirit.

The Reverend advises anyone suspecting that their computer is possessed to consult a clergyman, or, if the computer is still under warranty, to take it in for servicing.

'Technicians can replace the hard drive and reinstall the software, getting rid of the wicked spirit permanently,' he says.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 20:27:32 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Exorcist
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Watch out!
Message:
DEMON OF THE CRASHING HARD DRIVE, I BIND THEE!!! EVIL SPIRIT OF SPAM, I CAST THEE INTO OUTER DARKNESS!!! FILTHY SPECTER OF www.maharaji.org, I SEND THEE BACK FROM WHENCE YOU CAME!!! All manner of cyber demon possession can be lifted by your tax-deductable donations to the Rev. M. Dresbach, Iglesia Episcopal de Panamá
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Date: Thurs, Jun 08, 2000 at 10:58:25 (GMT)
From: Felda
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: is such a non //http:descriptibe word..
Message:
May I Suggest .. .. ... ...
Moniquie..
seems/seams
much mo' appropriate....
under 'reasonable' circumstances..
Prudent 'Z'
THOU shall be..
here come the Judge.
giggle zelda???.com//eva c amos n andy?
non?je suis desole.com
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