Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 22:00:23 (GMT)
From: Jun 25, 2000 To: Jul 04, 2000 Page: 2 Of: 5


Roger eDrek -:- Roger's House of Maharaji Drek is Online! -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 02:05:48 (GMT)
__ Killer -:- Roger's House of Maharaji Drek is Online! -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 21:09:01 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- The Lord has seen your glory! -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 18:56:25 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Here's one in the gizzard for the Maha! (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 19:22:24 (GMT)
__ Michael -:- ¡Felicidades! -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 15:32:59 (GMT)
__ Rev John Hammond-Smyth -:- Roger's House of Maharaji Drek is Online! -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 12:32:02 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Yes, please repost your sermon! (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 16:00:36 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- Congratulations, Roger! -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 11:45:29 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Which one ? Which one ???? -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 09:20:16 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- didn't someone once say what software those shadow -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 16:15:04 (GMT)
__ __ Know It All -:- Which one ? Which one ???? -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 15:27:10 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- For those who've missed the first episodes -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 08:33:11 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Jean-Michel, you are most prolific! -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 02:38:27 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- ...and the people danced and sang in the streets. -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 07:44:38 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- are we going to celebrate tonight? -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 08:34:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- are we going to celebrate tonight? -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 09:01:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- maybe on monday night ? -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 09:21:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Ca va bien avec moi. -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 12:28:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Maybe next time -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 13:08:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW Ji -:- Achar hey (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 14:44:03 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Roger? Don't you think it would be interesting -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 07:42:32 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Huh? The banned page -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 02:44:24 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- lyrics for Roger (well I could search I) -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 06:37:29 (GMT)
__ Rob -:- Well done Rog -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:49:05 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Rob, you will have to sue me! -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 04:20:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Rob -:- I should have known -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 04:41:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- I have to say I support Rob on this one -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 13:47:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Me, too! -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 17:35:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Can't Rob just use a different name? -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 20:15:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- On the other hand ..... -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 00:16:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- I'm inclined to agree -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 01:48:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Rob and Roger -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 14:51:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob (for now) -:- I'm hip with that -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 22:03:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Ok, Cat, that sounds good. (nt) -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 02:45:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- ? (nt) -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 03:41:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- I think he's trying to say I'm catweasle now!! (nt -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 03:59:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Naw, he's just kidding (nt) -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 04:34:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Rev John Hammond-Smyth -:- For it is written -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 13:46:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Did you notice all of those spooky coincidences? -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 17:04:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- a real gem, thanks for posting it again nt -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 16:16:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- FA's -- Susan didn't put 'nt' in parentheses (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 16:45:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Forum Admin -:- Hmm, rules is rules... -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 18:50:49 (GMT)
__ SB -:- :)))))))))) ROFL stupid guru (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:16:23 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- You are the MAN! -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 02:30:40 (GMT)
__ __ gErRy -:- And may I be first to link to the 'altered image' -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:07:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ gErRy -:- Oh and Rog, -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:17:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Happy -:- well done! -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 11:19:53 (GMT)

Gilead -:- Marianne, are you still there..re: Peoples Temple -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 01:38:26 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- Marianne, are you still there..re: Peoples Temple -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 22:53:40 (GMT)

Rob -:- To Mili, et al. Credit where it's due -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 01:31:30 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Credit where it's due - that's NOT the Maha then? -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 19:37:53 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- The Anti-Gravity Guru -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 14:41:40 (GMT)

Jerry -:- Adios, Elian! (ot) -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 18:04:10 (GMT)
__ dv -:- Obviously, you have not been to Miami in the last -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 22:08:03 (GMT)

gErRy -:- na na na na na, or are the Irish seein leprechauns -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:44:31 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- na na na na na, it's the FRENCH seeing UFOs (OT) -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:04:32 (GMT)
__ gErRy -:- sorry, above post is way OT (nt) -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:45:41 (GMT)

Jim -:- A poll for ex-premies only -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:09:39 (GMT)
__ Keith -:- A poll for ex-premies only -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 18:38:37 (GMT)
__ ham -:- A poll for ex-premies only -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 09:09:59 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Respect to shp -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 08:01:59 (GMT)
__ Lotus Eater -:- A poll for ex-premies only -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 23:25:05 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- YOU, my dear Lotus Eater, deserve respect -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 23:45:37 (GMT)
__ VP -:- R-E-S-P-E-C-T (Go, Aretha!) -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 21:24:54 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- to Veep -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 23:56:51 (GMT)
__ Michael -:- A poll for ex-premies only -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 20:13:44 (GMT)
__ __ Deputy Dog -:- R.E. - Now they can judge me!!! -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:06:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ Michael -:- R.E. - Now they can judge me!!! -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 15:15:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Michael, we are doing it again -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 22:23:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Michael -:- Michael, we are doing it again -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 04:59:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- No Dogg, YOU are doing it again... -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 02:22:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- agree with Gerry -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 14:59:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- agree with Gerry, but I should have added... -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 15:06:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Well put, gerry! NT -:- No Dogg, YOU are doing it again... -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 05:00:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- R.E. - Now they can judge me!!! -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 17:41:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Michael -:- R.E. - Now they can judge me!!! -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 19:51:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Hola padre!! (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 23:27:17 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- To Michael -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 23:52:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mili -:- To Michael -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 08:06:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Was I wrong about any of it, Mili? What part? -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 14:19:18 (GMT)
__ Powerman -:- A poll for ex-premies only -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 19:47:09 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- A poll for ex-premies only -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 19:32:06 (GMT)
__ Coach -:- A poll for ex-premies only -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:45:13 (GMT)
__ Way -:- A poll for ex-premies only -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:37:52 (GMT)
__ __ Deputy Dog -:- A poll for ex-premies only -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:24:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- To Dep Dog, on being a premie -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 15:11:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- To Way, on being a premie -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 23:30:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Way -:- To DD, on the Truth, and the pendant -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 20:33:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- To Way, on the Truth, and the pendant -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 03:19:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- The crux of our (profound) disagreement. -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 15:15:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Premspal -:- To Dep Dog, on being a premie -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 15:33:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- You put your finger right on it, Dog -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:53:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- You really don't get it do you Jim? -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 04:05:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Slack, slack, slack, as usual dog -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 08:41:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Oh I think he gets it, but do you? -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 05:35:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Oh I think he gets it, but do you? -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 17:18:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yeah, I get it alright -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 04:12:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Naive? Yeah right. I almost died of cynicism (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 13:41:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Sounds like a fearsome (but imaginary) disease -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 13:59:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- It's as bad as grudgitus and almost as deadly (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 22:14:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Jim, you didn't answer my questions -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 23:38:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- U don't deserve shit but here r the answers anyway -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 00:12:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Jim, you are like a stream of bat's piss -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 17:22:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- 'Let's hope and pray... -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 02:24:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- 'Let's hope and pray... -:- Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 03:03:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Powerman -:- A poll for ex-premies only -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:52:19 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- A poll for ex-premies only -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:42:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- To Jim -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:59:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- To Way -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 16:09:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Intellectual stupidity -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 21:35:11 (GMT)
__ gErRy -:- A poll for ex-premies only -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:21:32 (GMT)
__ __ Elaine -:- A poll for ex-premies only -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 16:39:02 (GMT)
__ __ gErRy -:- Oh, that will make you loads of friends here... -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:52:31 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- gErRy is my favorite Ex-premie! nt -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:46:31 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- I forgot the comma guy -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:42:40 (GMT)

Zelda -:- Forum Stuck?? -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 11:03:56 (GMT)
__ Oliver -:- Forum Stuck?? -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 11:12:37 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- I always have that problem on IE -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 11:36:21 (GMT)

El Capistrano -:- therefore, I say, verily unto you, ye will have -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 10:25:10 (GMT)

Jorge -:- Spanish forum? -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 01:28:54 (GMT)
__ Por supuesto! -:- Spanish forum? -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 02:29:42 (GMT)
__ __ Elaine -:- Hey,ged's over there.....NT -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 16:55:06 (GMT)

sundiva -:- names of organizers 1972-73 -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 20:36:37 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- names of organizers 1972-73 -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 14:38:40 (GMT)
__ __ Boris -:- names of organizers 1972-73 -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 16:50:11 (GMT)

Forum Administrator -:- More than one alias -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 16:11:44 (GMT)
__ Ruphus -:- Re: more than one alias -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 09:43:07 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Racism -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 10:03:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ruphus -:- Coward, rude and offensive persons -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 11:15:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- Coward, rude and offensive persons -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 13:00:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- For crying out loud! -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 12:07:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Paul -:- Well said. EOM -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 13:13:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Ruphus -:- For crying out loud -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 12:54:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Look at it another way Ruphus. -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 11:46:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Ruphus -:- Look at it -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 12:50:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- The word 'cult' in premie mouths is hilarious -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 14:49:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ruphus -:- The word 'cult' -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:40:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Forum Admin -:- Ruphus -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 19:48:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I'm sorry, you're just plain stupid -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:58:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- The word 'cult' -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:55:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tim Matheson -:- The word 'cult'-Premie only Forum -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 10:27:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ devotee -:- The word 'cult'-Premie only Forum -:- Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 02:33:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Forum Admin -:- 'Ruphus' is not Bjorn -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 20:42:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- Look at it -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 13:51:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Joey, nice points!-nt -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 21:41:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Very good post, Joey! (nt) -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 14:46:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Cults -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 13:15:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ruphus -:- Cults -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 13:48:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Good question Ruphus. -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:37:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Good answer Anth! -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 21:21:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Most of it's in my Journey cq, -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 07:59:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Thanks Anth, but one more question re your Journey -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 19:43:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- 2 down, one to go - dreaming in technicolour -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 18:18:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Ruphus do you know Bjorn? nt -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 13:05:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gERry -:- You mean it's Bjorn the pedophile??? -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 14:37:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ hal -:- Apparently it's not Bjorn again gERry -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 13:52:33 (GMT)
__ Thesaurus -:- More than one alias -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 19:10:27 (GMT)
__ cq -:- More than one forum style -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 17:45:04 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- More than one forum style -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 20:11:51 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- More than one forum style -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 19:55:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- More than one forum style -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 20:57:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- cq, more information -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 11:43:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Merci, Katie (et VP below) que sera, sera? (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 19:46:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- que sera, sera?? -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 13:56:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- KATIE'S THREATENING PEOPLE AGAIN! -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 18:19:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- JIM, GO READ ELK! -:- Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 21:32:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ VP -:- More than one forum style -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 21:46:58 (GMT)
__ __ John Wayne -:- More than one forum style -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 18:10:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- et tu Frankus? -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 18:40:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ John Wayne -:- et tu Frankus? -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 09:07:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Coach -:- Helas -:- Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 20:50:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Helas -:- Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 17:19:41 (GMT)


Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 02:05:48 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Everyone
Subject: Roger's House of Maharaji Drek is Online!
Message:
It's V-M Day!
Victory!

The attorney of my ISP said:

I just received a letter from the Maharaji's New York attorneys (not the London attorneys who wrote this morning).

'We have reviewed the web site and advised our client of our finding that the infringing materials have been removed.'

Basically, the materials I removed were the alleged internal Elan Vital Directives & Communiqués. These communiques were located in the Maharaji's Corporate Shenanigans section.

The links still exist, but the content has been replaced with this.

Roger's House of Maharaji Drek Lives!

Now, who the hell are those London attorneys?

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Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 21:09:01 (GMT)
From: Killer
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Roger's House of Maharaji Drek is Online!
Message:
Congradulations Roger!
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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 18:56:25 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: The Lord has seen your glory!
Message:
Amazing! You took on the Lord Of The Universe and won! You fucking bad, boy. You bad!
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 19:22:24 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Here's one in the gizzard for the Maha! (nt)
Message:
Here's one in the gizzard for the Maha! (nt)
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 15:32:59 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: ¡Felicidades!
Message:
This is a great victory for the real Lovers of Truth. You fought the good fight and won!
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 12:32:02 (GMT)
From: Rev John Hammond-Smyth
Email: tea@vicarage.com
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Roger's House of Maharaji Drek is Online!
Message:
That's excelent Mr eDrek. I notice my last sermon isn't there, which is hardly surprising considering the circumstances. Would you like me to post it here again?

Amen.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 16:00:36 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Rev John Hammond-Smyth
Subject: Yes, please repost your sermon! (nt)
Message:
adsf
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 11:45:29 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Congratulations, Roger!
Message:
I know you worked really hard & jumped through a lot of hoops to get your site back up - glad it's on line again.
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 09:20:16 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Which one ? Which one ????
Message:
Looks like what EV's attorney's don't like is the 1st on your list

Elan Vital Directives & Communiqués
20000208 Secret document from the Local Video training in Chicago, February 1999
20000207 What is an Event for Learning More about Knowledge
20000205 Topic and Event Ideas For Instructor Tour Planning
20000205 Elan Vital Conference Call Reminder Memo April 1999
20000205 EV1990's Usher's Memo 'Refining Your Understanding...'
20000203 EV's Linda Gross on legal aspects of local organizations
20000203 Children Attending Events
20000203 Permission to Screen Videos

Which one was that one about ?

Was it this one ?

Or maybe one of that section ?

Nasty Jean-Michel

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 16:15:04 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: didn't someone once say what software those shadow
Message:
figures are from? You could do one hilarious spoof of that memo...
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 15:27:10 (GMT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Which one ? Which one ????
Message:
J-M: Thanks for pointing out what it is that EV does not want people to know and see.

KIA

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 08:33:11 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: For those who've missed the first episodes
Message:
Here's the whole saga of Prem Rawat-EV vs. exes websites online:

Twelve First Chapters already online!

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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 02:38:27 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Jean-Michel, you are most prolific!
Message:
Jean-Michel,

Your work and efforts are always absolutely First Class!

Excellent job!

Thank you!

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 07:44:38 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: ...and the people danced and sang in the streets.
Message:
Bravo Roger,

Another victory for the freedom fighters against the corrupt money grabbing cult capitalist paper-tiger war machine.

It seems to be a morning for bursting into song,

'eDreks back,
eDreks back,
eDreks back to where he once belonged. dar dar dar.'

Where ever the forces of darkness and delusion reach out their diseased, claws to enslave the peaceful people of earth, eDrek will be there, mouse in his right hand, mouse-mat in his left, fighting for freedom, democracy and the Ex-Premie way. The people of Earth should know that the flame of liberty has not been extinguished, and the truth about the evil cult and its confused master will be available for all to see.

Anth, Latvian Liberation Army, Paris Regiment, Banlieu Brigade.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 08:34:27 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: are we going to celebrate tonight?
Message:
Everybody here invited ........ to check the St Amour 1999.
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 09:01:22 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: are we going to celebrate tonight?
Message:
Bonjour Jean-Michel,

Sadly, I'm busy meeting two trainloads of tourists at Gare du Nord, who are all coming to stay en Banlieu pour le weekend. I will certainly raise a glass to eDrek and his mighty victory against the hoardes of evil tonight. What about Sunday or Monday?

Anth the socially entangled

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 09:21:30 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: maybe on monday night ?
Message:
I'll have to check with someone ....
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 12:28:56 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Ca va bien avec moi.
Message:
Email me Jean-Michel, I can't wait to see where you're going to take me next.

Anth the Yobbo in Paris

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 13:08:40 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Maybe next time
Message:
we'll go visit the Indian village here ... They don't have the best wines, only Indian restaurants, groceries and bazars !!


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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 14:44:03 (GMT)
From: AJW Ji
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Achar hey (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 07:42:32 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Roger? Don't you think it would be interesting
Message:
to analyze what those attorneys and Rawat don't like?

Would you email me that banned page?

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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 02:44:24 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Huh? The banned page
Message:
J-M,

I don't really know which page specifically they objected to. All I did was change the content of those EV documents (the ones you show above in this thread) to be this picture.

I think that EV backed off because they realized the danger of getting into a court battle.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 06:37:29 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: lyrics for Roger (well I could search I)
Message:
After reading and re reading
the credits fron Girl Interrupted, and not seeing it, I am going nuts with a song they play and don't credit as far as I can see and it doesn't seem a 60's song I'm thinking! Not from the sound and all.
Do you know? and since you posted that nice one to me below I thought you might know? It is something like this:
===================
This is how your fight the lonliness
You smile all the time
And shine your teeth to brilliantness
And sharpen them with lies
And whatever's goin down
will follow you around
That's how you fight the lonliness
You laugh at every joke
And drag your blanket blindly
You fill your heart with smoke
And the first thing that you want
Is the last thing that you'll need
That is how you FIGHT
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:49:05 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Well done Rog
Message:
Nice to have somewhere for the *best* to live again.

Now how about being a nice guy and taking off all the misinformation about yours truly? Call it amnesty if you must, or a new beginning. I'd appreciate it.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 04:20:19 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Rob
Subject: Rob, you will have to sue me!
Message:
Ah, Rob, in my moment of rejoice you are asking me to be magnanimous. Hmmm? Can I be that? Mmm...

You see, Rob, you are what you are. And what you are is represented by your past. Such an amazing illustrious past you have had, too. Why should you be ashamed of it? I would like to think that my Rob collections would be something that you should be flattered by. After all, who on the House of Maharaji Drek has gotten as much ink as you besides the Maharaji himself?

Rob, you're practically a legend around here. You should savor the fame and attention. You, Rob, are a true artist and I salute you, sir!

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 04:41:43 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: I should have known
Message:
Yes I am what I am, true enough, but I am not what, or rather who, you think I am, or was, if you get my drift.

I read your volume 1 revelations and frankly your logical conclusions are flimsy at best. I just don't see the resemblance you claim exists between Blackdog and myself. I have rudimentary knowledge of computers & software, enough to function on the internet, work in MS Powerpoint and run a teleprompter in DOS.

And I'm not alone in having thought that actually YOU were he, as it happens, but I concede that may be wide of the mark. Whoever it was did an excellent job of deceiving you and Dave and the legacy is now it weakens my position as an antagonist of Rawat. If you're OK with that then so be it, but I wish you'd think about that aspect of it and maybe get some other opinions (please, not Joey's!).

I'm not looking for fame or legendry, I'm simply trying to do my part in deconstructing the myth of the cult and Rawat's modus operandi in as clear and concise a manner as I can. With the misconception you give of me on your site, I may as well not bother.

So no lawsuits, just a humble request for you to see this in context and do the right thing.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 13:47:31 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: I have to say I support Rob on this one
Message:
Rog,

Give the guy the break that Joey never gave you, huh?

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 17:35:30 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Me, too!
Message:
Everyone should be allowed to completely screw up on the forum at least once. Most of the people here who have done it (me included) have been accepted again - Rob has had a much harder time than most. I vote you remove the Rob pages (they are a distraction from the REAL subject anyway!)
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 20:15:09 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Can't Rob just use a different name?
Message:
I must confess that I love Rob, too. But why can't he just use some other handle so that Rob the Legend can live on in some form?
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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 00:16:22 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: On the other hand .....
Message:
I was all set to suggest that maybe the remedy is for Rob to post under his real name. Take my word for it, Rob (for now), you won't regret it.

Then I thought that if that ain't happening, go ahead change your name. Why not?

But then I thought why not keep it as a testament to your 'journey' to date. The only problem, and the one that none of this addresses, is that Roger's site still has some insinuations about you that I'm sure you don't like. It doesn't seem fair to me to leave those out there if Roger no longer supports them. I mean, maybe he DOES still suspect you of this and that. But if he doesn't -- or, at least, is willing to give you the benefit of whatever doubt he has on the matter, I think he shouldn't keep them up regardless fo what name you post under.

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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 01:48:39 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm inclined to agree
Message:
For now I'll claim writer's privelege and stick to a pen name.

In the long run it won't really matter, because I sincerely believe the power of real, verifiable information on the origins of DLM/EV as a sub-branch of the Rhadasoami religious sect will ultimately blow the cult out of the water.

Premies will have to decide whether they wish to remain members of a Westernized Indian religious sect, join the purer lineage of Rhadasoami study under Ramakrishna-Vivekenanda, or just pursue their own paths. Some may even decide to branch again and start their own cult!

Then we can all relax and take up fishing or something.

I think Roger knows what needs to be done, things are accelerating rapidly here and those little sub-plots and intrigues will soon have little, if any, importance.

It would be unfair to everyone else if I changed my posting name at this stage, so I won't.

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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 14:51:51 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Rob and Roger
Subject: Rob and Roger
Message:
Rob - I don't think you should change your name (and I doubt that Roger would want to change HIS name at this point either.) You're right that it wouldn't be fair, and would also result in further confusion.

Roger - I think you should take that Rob stuff off, not only because of Rob, but because it's distracting (and could be detracting) from the other real good stuff you have on your site. Just my opinion, but it is one thing I have never liked on House of Drek. (You know what the other one is - snicker!)

Take care, both of you -
Katie

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 22:03:49 (GMT)
From: Rob (for now)
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: I'm hip with that
Message:
How about you give me a name? (then I can call you daddy)

And hope the FAs down ban me for multi-aliasing.

Sounds like a reasonable compromise.

Ps better let Sir Dave know or he'll be shouting 'hey, 'so-and-so' is really Rob'. That was last years joke.

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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 02:45:47 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Rob (for now)
Subject: Ok, Cat, that sounds good. (nt)
Message:
lk;j
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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 03:41:21 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: ? (nt)
Message:
hhhhh
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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 03:59:10 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I think he's trying to say I'm catweasle now!! (nt
Message:
meow.
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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 04:34:18 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Naw, he's just kidding (nt)
Message:
nnnn
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 13:46:19 (GMT)
From: Rev John Hammond-Smyth
Email: tea@vicarage.com
To: Rob
Subject: For it is written
Message:
in the great book, all of the history of the Children of Ex-prem. And students of the book may read it all here and know of those times and the implications for the present day.
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 17:04:34 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Rev John Hammond-Smyth
Subject: Did you notice all of those spooky coincidences?
Message:
Did you notice all of those spooky coincidences?
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 16:16:52 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Rev John Hammond-Smyth
Subject: a real gem, thanks for posting it again nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 16:45:00 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: FA's -- Susan didn't put 'nt' in parentheses (nt)
Message:
dddddd
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 18:50:49 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hmm, rules is rules...
Message:
...and we wouldn't want our multi-aliased guest Ruphus to feel that any kind of discriminatory bias is in operation. So, though it pains my heart to say so, I fear Susan's days might well be numbered if she carries on like that... ;)

BTW: Jim, we are introducing a new forum guideline (Rule 17b, subsection iv) that outlaws tell-tales too, so you'd better watch your step.

Obersturmbandfuhrer FA.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:16:23 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: :)))))))))) ROFL stupid guru (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 02:30:40 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: You are the MAN!
Message:
That's really good news, Roger. Excellente! Good work and may the House of Drek prosper in perpetuity. It is sublime and self-effulgent.

Oh fuck you, Maharaji
And fuck you tonight
Oh fuck you Maharaji
Hey, you're not so ti-i-i-i-ight
So ti-i-i-i-ght...

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:07:35 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Roger, my hero
Subject: And may I be first to link to the 'altered image'
Message:
that started the whole thing !!!

Now I wonder who created this ???

hahahahah goober, you lose pal, you LOOSER (TM)

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:17:43 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Roger
Subject: Oh and Rog,
Message:
I'm the uh, literary agent for this red butler guy and he wants me to ask you if you'd park his stuff on your site...
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 11:19:53 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: well done!
Message:
Congratulations Roger! That's a real victory.
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 01:38:26 (GMT)
From: Gilead
Email: yaqubm@cs.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Marianne, are you still there..re: Peoples Temple
Message:
06/29/00
Marianne,
sorry to once again go on the main thread, I misplaced your email, but never heard from you. I was real interested in talking with you, even by email, on the Peoples Temple. Hope to hear from you soon. Peace.
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 22:53:40 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Gilead
Subject: Marianne, are you still there..re: Peoples Temple
Message:
Gilead: I think that you have become a bit too pre-occupied with Peoples Temple. To suggest that Jim Jones may still be alive is way out there. I do not wish to discuss this matter with you on the Forum or in email.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 01:31:30 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Mili O et al
Subject: To Mili, et al. Credit where it's due
Message:
About the only thing I would give Mr Rawat credit for is how thoroughly he has thought out his strategies. It is designed so that he can't lose.

Here's what I mean, in respect of your argument in a thread below.

You & O appear to be trying to claim that Mr Rawat urged premies to 'make up their own minds' about him. Very, VERY, debatable point, but let's see how it might work for him.

First he makes outrageous claims and insinuations about his own Divinity, allows the easily swayed among the flock to echo and augment the image (and rewards them with enviable 'personal' service and inner clique status) to the point where only a spiritual troglodite would doubt him. For those who seemingly still don't 'get it' and in order to provide a veneer of humility, he invites people to 'put it to the test' by practicing the four techniques.

Well see here's the clever part. The techniques are long-established yogic excercises and with the right application and dedication may well provide the practitioner with some kind of spiritual buzz (personally I think it's seratonin leakage, but that's another story). So sri premie gets off on it and looks lovingly and devotedly on his lord Mr Rawat for 'revealing' him these off-the-peg, sorry, the knowledge of all knowledges and proceeds to swallow whatever claptrap the guy throws his way from there on in.

And what of the poor trog who doesn't experience didley? Well, that's entirely his own fault for not doing it right, innit? 'This Knowledge is Purrfect' Remember that? So don't blame him, OK, just Trust, keep slogging away at the eyeballs, and one day you too will be able to 'recognise him'

Mili, you and your pals are sorely tempting me to start my own cult. I mean, it's just too easy!!! Forget 'dot-coms', this is far and away the easiest way to get rich quick, and every day you guys demonstrate what a market potential there still is.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 19:37:53 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Credit where it's due - that's NOT the Maha then?
Message:
Credit where it's due - that's NOT the Maha then?

Silly me. As if.

Thanks for that, Rob. Clear, concise, and ... if I may ... just one question for those that deny the Maha ever claimed divinity:

WHOSE 'Holy Family' was it???

(and that's NOT a Hindu concept).

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 14:41:40 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: The Anti-Gravity Guru
Message:
Rob:

I'm sitting here wondering if 'having a following' is ever beneficial, and on comes a documentary about Richard Simmons. It does take some skill and talent to maintain a following, and I appreciate the stress and challenge imposed on leadership of all sorts. I'd be willing to grant that M. is not altogether ordinary in that regard, but the other component of 'leadership,' aside from the one about simply maintaining a following, has to do with the message and how one represents oneself. I don't think the capacity or longing to 'follow' is necessarily a human weakness... but we just *have* to figure out how to exercise better judgment about *who* we follow, and *why.*

BTW, the Charlie Rose show had a special session last night with Tom Friedman at the Aspen Institute and apparently Friedman believes that the coming decade will see the most radical social and political upheavals since the American Revolution. (I wish I could have asked him what he thought of the French and Russian versions sandwiched in that era.) Anyway, apparently things are *not* going to be settling down for awhile. Just hope Richard is up to the task... :-)

--Scott

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 18:04:10 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Adios, Elian! (ot)
Message:
Well, the kid's on his way back to Cuba with his dad. It's amazing all the ruckus that went on about this when in the end it was decided, simply, that the kid belongs with his father. Amazing. Did they really have to go through all that fuss before they came to this conclusion?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 22:08:03 (GMT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Obviously, you have not been to Miami in the last
Message:
ten years, except maybe at an insulated program. They are so rabid down there they tried to ram me off the road during one of their protests. Now I live two hours away but still occasionally have to work there. The only thing I miss is the sailing, imo the best in the USA.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:44:31 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: na na na na na, or are the Irish seein leprechauns
Message:
Put this in your pipe and smoke it !!!

too much french wine?

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Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 04:04:32 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: na na na na na, it's the FRENCH seeing UFOs (OT)
Message:
Did you read the story carefully, gEr? or am I missing ANOTHER inside joke . . . OR what have YOU been smoking? The article doen't seem to be a joke, does it Gerry? What's your take on it? I can't remember what your position is, but I do vaguely remember something about Icke and conspiracies. Care to give me a synopsis?

Of course, notice the timing of this. The new French law against mind manipulation, spin-quacks tying to do damage control at EV . . . do you think The Lord of the Universe might have had an ace up his sleeve that he's been finally forced to play? ;-)

As long as it's not the Borg, but I'm a little concerned . . . m seems to be quite heavily into assimilating humans . . . er, propagating knowledge.

Stonor

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:45:41 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: all
Subject: sorry, above post is way OT (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:09:39 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A poll for ex-premies only
Message:
1) Do you respect any of the premies who have posted here?

2) If so, which ones and why?

3) If you do not respect some or all of the premies who have posted here, which ones come to mind and why?

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 18:38:37 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A poll for ex-premies only
Message:
you Jim are the last person I would respect in any poll. you pompous arrogant nitwit!
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 09:09:59 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A poll for ex-premies only
Message:
1) Do you respect any of the premies who have posted here?
2) If so, which ones and why?
3) If you do not respect some or all of the premies who have posted here, which ones come to mind and why?

Respect is a big word jim, a word that means something special to me, either when giving or receiving.
By definition it could not be applied to premies, since the whole notion of truth lies behind the definition of a 'premies', & that notion of truth, if forcefully followed can lead to only one position. I have yet to meet a premie who has even started to be that ruthless & stayed in the 'official', ie prawatts, position.

Although this is true in general terms, individual acts ie shp's letter to gm, the work that mel does (isn't he into aboriginal right's issues?) I can give respect to.

In terms of liking, rather than respect, very limited. In fact mili is the only one whose posts I've read for pleasure, old time mili, not the new insipid one, he's just tedious.
Some real punky passion in him, easy to imagine him as a dreadlocked traveller constantrly in scrapes, ie he was the only premie who has even seemed to be out of their dream bubble and in the world, feeling it, skin alive.
But then I went to his web site, could hasve been cd's it was so anaemic. Oh well, no great loss.

But I do constantly live in hope that one will arrive here.
I would add that I do feel some of the premies like dep etc are more open about their belief structures now, which has to be applauded.

Don't you also find it odd, the way you have all these millions of people regularly in contact with the greatest experience of living that's possible, yet where is the inspired art or music, where are the saintly qualities inspired by this experience???
Really the crowd around gm give off one vibe, suburban, and that is mightily confusing!!

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 08:01:59 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Respect to shp
Message:
Respect to shp for writing to Maharaji and asking him about Jagdeos international, cult sponsored, paedophilia tours. I don't know any other premies who did anything about it.

Anth the Nonce Basher

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 23:25:05 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A poll for ex-premies only
Message:
Dear Jim, Respect is a big word, and at times I respect myself, and others, more than at other times.

So, what happens when the crunch comes? This seems to be the dividing line between exes and the premies who continue to post here.

Some, like myself, face up to it, and question their beliefs, whatever the perceived cost, interestingly, turning into exes in the process. Others, like O or Hector, or a friend of mine I talked with yesterday, can't question their belief in the relevance of a 'living Master'.

You get this uncomfortable feeling which I can describe in religious terms as 'they've sold their soul for a pot of gold'.

So, no, I can't respect the way they hold on to the cult, I didn't respect myself either, but I do respect the way I walked away, even though I did still believe in him. And, anybody can be genuinely mistaken in their beliefs. Lesley

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 23:45:37 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: YOU, my dear Lotus Eater, deserve respect
Message:
On my way back home I was wondering what kind of responses my 'poll' got. And I was thinking of what I might add. What I came up with was that I don't respect liars. To the extent that I think that a premie knows and is suppressing the truth about Maharaji, I hold them in contempt. On the other hand, if they're willing, as you were apparently, to face the music, they're honourable. It's that simple.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 21:24:54 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: R-E-S-P-E-C-T (Go, Aretha!)
Message:
I haven't been too impressed with premie powers of reasoning or discussion here, no. If I met some of the people in person, I might respect things about them. If they were happy, if they were loving and kind. If they treated their family and friends with respect. There is always that possiblity.

I would not EVER respect the fact that they worship Maharaji. Not ever.

I don't respect premies for coming here to read. If I were truly happy and there was a site set up dissing something that made me happy, I wouldn't sit around and read that. What is the point in that? Starting fights? Getting angry?

I don't respect the way CD talks around the issue at hand and then jumps in biting at heels, only to disappear again. I do respect his knowledge of physics and computers and his musical ability. I don't respect the way Mili never answers my posts.

I can think of some premies who posted here who were so mean that I would never respect them no matter what. Remember 'A premie?' and 'Aesop' and there was this one person Brian blocked 'Petrou' or something like that. What was the name of the person who rated each of us by our number of posts? I forgot his name, but that post of his was a classic--very funny. Probably the best one by a premie.

While we are on the subject--remember 'Bruce' from Australia? op? Annie? Jack? Hey, how is Jack, Jim? Do you ever run into him?

Since we are on the subject, John Hammond Smythe is my very favourite premie.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 23:56:51 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: to Veep
Message:
No, I don't see Jack but I'm sure he's still lurking. Indeed, I believe Jack's posted under a number of pseudonym's since he last got deservedly pilloried for being an asshole under his own name.

op posted something jsut the other day but she knows she was sounding dumber all the time and, to her credit, shut up. Annie I already mentioned in my post to Way. Bruce, like so many of these jerks, is .... a jerk? I mean, what do you say after a while? The experience of watching premies dissemble becomes truly 'ineffable'.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 20:13:44 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A poll for ex-premies only
Message:
I respect CD's ability to play guitar; he is actually quite good, but I do not respect his new-age blather.
I like Mili as a person, but I don't respect his opinons regarding M.
I tried to start a dialogue with SHP off-line but that went no where, and he drives me crazy with his 'imagine you are a first century Pharisee, falling asleep over your scrolls while Jesus...' stuff.
Deputy Dogg's quoting Ram Dass on the bible keeps me laughing, but I have no respect for him.
Keith is insane and should be heavily medicated.
The new crop simply make me nuts.

Now they can judge me!!!

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:06:57 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: R.E. - Now they can judge me!!!
Message:
Deputy Dogg's quoting Ram Dass on the bible keeps me laughing, but I have no respect for him.

Michael,

Everything you or anyone needs to know, is in the book Be Here Now. It's all there.

Ram Dass is one of the most beautiful and intelligent guys to have ever lived on this planet. The fact that he is gay is of no matter. If there is any meaning to the word saint, it applies to Ram Dass.

As far as me quoting the Bible goes I've zinged you on several occasions. The fact that you purport to be a man of God makes me want to hurl.

And if there is an afterlife, IMO, God is going to want to have a few words with you.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 15:15:54 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: R.E. - Now they can judge me!!!
Message:
Ah dog, you have never really understood our discussions, have you? As for the times you claim to have 'zinged' me, I believe that I have explained a text, usually returning to the Greek, yet you have rejected my translation and exegesis because it did not correspond to your 'great working knowledge' of the Kings James Version, which proves that you have no experience with modern, more exact translations or understandings of the text. I remember you quoting a hymn of praise from one of Paul's epistles and claiming that it had something to do with sitting under a sheet and squeezing one's eyeballs, and you just kind of snorted your response.

As for Ram Dass, really, old boy, you still don't understand that quoting him as a Bible Scholar was silly. I've read Be Here Now, and I've read interviews with Ram Dass and I know all about the Dick Alpert years, but he is out of his league when dealing with Hebrew and Christian scriptures; he is better at putting a Western spin on Hindu and Buddhist scriptures. As far as his being gay, I don't think that I have ever commented on that, nor do I care about his sexuality.

As for your disgust for me as a priest, it's not my worry what you think. I serve my congregation well in every aspect but I don't see any reason that I should be sweet and kind when debating one of M's defenders.

Of course God will have a few words with me in the afterlife; who will be talking with you? Ram Dass?

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 22:23:21 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: Michael, we are doing it again
Message:
Ah dog, you have never really understood our discussions, have you?

Ah, yes I have.

As for the times you claim to have 'zinged' me, I believe that I have explained a text, usually returning to the Greek, yet you have rejected my translation and exegesis because it did not correspond to your 'great working knowledge' of the Kings James Version, which proves that you have no experience with modern, more exact translations or understandings of the text.

IMO many of the more 'modern, more exact translations' are crap. They are translated by people who change the text to suit their understanding. The broken telephone syndrome, but I've mentioned this before.

I remember you quoting a hymn of praise from one of Paul's epistles and claiming that it had something to do with sitting under a sheet and squeezing one's eyeballs, and you just kind of snorted your response.

That hymn of praise may have been 1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God alone who is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. You claim this is a song that the people would sing, and I strongly feel they are talking about an experience they are having, more exactly an experience of Knowledge.

As for Ram Dass, really, old boy, you still don't understand that quoting him as a Bible Scholar was silly. I've read Be Here Now, and I've read interviews with Ram Dass and I know all about the Dick Alpert years, but he is out of his league when dealing with Hebrew and Christian scriptures; he is better at putting a Western spin on Hindu and Buddhist scriptures.

IMO Knowledge is the essence of all scriptures. Out of his league eh? I can just feel your arrogant and condescending attitude coming right through my computer.

As for your disgust for me as a priest, it's not my worry what you think. I serve my congregation well in every aspect but I don't see any reason that I should be sweet and kind when debating one of M's defenders.

IMO you are a glorified social worker not a spiritual leader. A perfect example of the blind leading the blind, the spiritual bankruptcy of the mainstream Christian churches.

In 2 Timothy 1:6 Paul writes, . . I am reminding you now to fan into a flame the gift that God gave you when I laid my hands on you. God's gift was not a spirit of timidity, but the Spirit of power and love and self control. This is from my Jerusalem Bible by the way, and I can't imagine how you would interpret this scripture. In fact I don't want to know. It's probably another fucking song, right?

Of course God will have a few words with me in the afterlife; who will be talking with you? Ram Dass?

I'd love to talk with Ram Dass, whom I consider a holy man, worthy of my respect.

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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 04:59:12 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Michael, we are doing it again
Message:
okay, perhaps your knowledge regarding hymns is deficient, but actually look at that text from the epistle to Timothy; it is a hymn of praise. Look in a hymnal from any Christian church and such words are used as hymns of praise.
Now let's face the facts: it really bothers you that I have spent years learning to read Hebrew and Greek and yet I don't accept your view that the Hebrew and Christian scriptures describe the four techiniques you learned from some saffron-robed fellow. You forget that I, too, received the so-called Knowledge from a saffron-robed woman. I practiced and found it wanting. I know the Hebrew and Christian scriptures and am secure in the knowledge that they have nothing to do with touching one's eyeballs, putting one's fingers in one's ear, concentrating on one's breathing, or sticking one's tongue behind the uvula. Out of the entire collection of scriptures which make up the Bible, you can only come up with a handful of verses in an attempt to prove your point. Dogg, it's not there. You claim to be a Buddhist, so I don't even understand why you think that your Sunday School exegesis is even worth quoting. I don't quote Buddhist scriptures, even though I have read a few. Stick to something you actually know and can support.
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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 02:22:32 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: No Dogg, YOU are doing it again...
Message:
IMO many of the more 'modern, more exact translations' are crap. They are translated by people who change the text to suit their understanding. The broken telephone syndrome, but I've mentioned this before.

Modern biblical scholars use the oldest texts available. There's a lot of work that goes into this and each word is checked and debated until a concensus is obtained as to its most likely meaning. It is peer reviewed so something like 'being translated to suit someone's understand' DOES NOT happen.

King James, on the other hand, is much more likely to contain mistranslations, for a lot of reasons, one being to suit someone's agenda.

I do understand what the telephone game is about but this is not the case here, Dep. You might be interested in the Jesus Seminar texts which weigh these things in a careful and circumspect manner.

You disdain for Father Mickey and his hard earned scholarship and learning does you a great disservice. It almost looks as if you are anti-intellectual. This is not the case is it, Dep?

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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 14:59:12 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: gerry and DD
Subject: agree with Gerry
Message:
and frankly, DD, I am having trouble understanding why you view the King James text as authentic. I know several born-again Christians who absolutely believe that the King James bible is the WORD OF GOD, but you don't seem to be in that category.

I personally prefer the style of the King James bible - it's more poetic, and some of the language is beautiful. It definitely loses this in the modern translations. However, I don't take it literally, or even as a reliable translation.

Oh yeah, I am not a Christian, by the way - I just read a lot. And I did think Michael's point about non-Christians arguing with him about biblical scriptures was a good one.

Sincerely,
Katie

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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 15:06:56 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Gerry and DD
Subject: agree with Gerry, but I should have added...
Message:
That I cannot understand why you see the King James version, or any OTHER translation as being exact. I think the modern translations probably come the closest, because of the reasons that Gerry and Mickey mentioned.

By the way, I used to work with a born-again Christian guy who said that Jesus would have supported capital punishment. We challenged him to find something in the NEW Testament that would support that (there is plenty of stuff in the Old Testament, naturally!). He came up with the incident where Jesus smote the money-lenders. Anyway, he still believes that Jesus would have supported capital punishment... Point being that you can find support for pretty much anything in the older translations of the Bible.

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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 05:00:43 (GMT)
From: Well put, gerry! NT
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: No Dogg, YOU are doing it again...
Message:
Well put, gerry!
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 17:41:43 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: R.E. - Now they can judge me!!!
Message:
Are you a Michael, by any chance, with an alternative (ie more recent) translation of 'The Lord's Prayer'?
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 19:51:52 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: mgdbach@hotmail.com
To: Stonor
Subject: R.E. - Now they can judge me!!!
Message:
I have the super cool version from the New Zealand Book of Common Prayer, that's the most recent and contemporary version, but the translation is from a Maori context. Mili e-mailed something which claimed to be from the original Aramaic, but I'm not buying it until I find out who did the translation or if it is simply some New Age thang claiming to be from the Aramaic (since I don't read Aramaic I will have some friends who do know the language check it out). I am the Michael who formerly posted as Mickey the Pharisee.
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 23:27:17 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: Hola padre!! (nt)
Message:
NT
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 23:52:41 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: To Michael
Message:
I agree with all that except this:

I like Mili as a person, but I don't respect his opinons regarding M.

Personally, I find Mili to be loathsome. No, it's not just because he once tried to shut down our newsgroup with the false support of a fraudulent petition. Nor the fact that he threatened to attack an ex if he ever met him simply because he didn't like what he was saying about his guru. And it's not just that he laughed off Susan's (or was it Abi's?) original disclosure about Jagdeo as the lies of an obviously ugly woman or some such. And, no, it's not the way he ham-fistedly shut down any discussion about Maharaji on his own short-lived pro-m site, the one he started helping Harlan with.

It's all of it. The guy's a prick. He's never once -- not even once -- acknowledged anything of substance here. That includes everything that's ever been harmful. etc. perpetrated by this cult. Mili? You can have him. And his sleazy new-age 'wild and crazy' pick up shtick.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 08:06:16 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: Jim
Subject: To Michael
Message:
Personally, I find Mili to be loathsome...

It goes both ways, Jim.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 14:19:18 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Was I wrong about any of it, Mili? What part?
Message:
Just to be clear, Mili, you did in fact:

1) try to shut down our newsgroup by telling Usenet you had the support of a whole bunch of people when, in truth, you'd just grabbed a bunch of names from all the people who'd ever posted on Harlan's page, even when it turned out that all sorts of exes were amongst them, right?

Usenet told you to fuck off for being such a slimeball too, didn't they? Or something to that effect, no?

Did I get that wrong? How? Please, Mili, correct me here. This is YOUR name we're talking about. You should defend yourself if I've somehow got this wrong.

2) threaten to punch out the 'original' David if you ever saw him outside a program afe yeras ago, didn't you? I mean, that wasn't some other Mili, was it? You know, with all these aliases and people just using first names and stuff, I could be mistaken. What's your recollection of that incident? I seem to recall a big discussion and how that confirmed -- possibly even spawned -- the 'no threats' policy here. Wasn't it something like that? Help me out here, Mili. The truth matters sometimes.

3) tell some woman here who posted about being sexually abused in the cult that she must be a liar and is probably an old, fat hag anyway, or, again, something like that, didn't you? I seem to remember everyone recooiling from your post like it was poison. Or maybe I'm imagining things. Please, Mili, don't leave me in the dark on this. What's your version?

4) shut down the only discussion that ever really started on yours and Harlan's page, the discussion where one premie started talking about Maharaji as the Lord and the other premie took issue with that. You DID tell them that debates of that nature weren't allowed on your forum, didn't you? I seem to remember that it provided a ton of laughs for us all here but, then again, maybe that's just my twisted memory. How do YOU recall that, huh?

The last thing in the world I'd want to do, Mili, is mischaracterize anything you or anyone's done. So please, if I got any of it wrong, let me know. I stand to be corrected and all that.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 19:47:09 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A poll for ex-premies only
Message:
While it's true that every premie who's posted here acts like a jerk, I think the premies of the seventies were more arrogant and self-righteous. But maybe that's just because I met them in real life.

And although intellectual forthrightness is one measure that can be used in determining respect there are so many others: concern for humanity, a sense of fairness, actions that correspond to words, etc.

There are people who evoke respect when you first meet them but as you get to know them better, you respect them less. And visa versa.

There are people who do great things for humanity but ignore or even abuse their families.

And there are people who deserve far more disrespect than premies. Premies nowadays have chosen a sort of vacant mindspace to maintain their involvement with maharaji but the rate at which they beat their wives, rent out substandard apartments, or otherwise act in an immoral manner is probably no higher than the general population.

And then there's those people who you figure will never, ever earn your respect. People who've either done such heinous things you could never consider respecting them, or people who've crossed a line into depravity they can never return from.

Premies don't fall into that category and can snap out of their vacuousness at any time. For that reason it may more reasonable to consider them non-respectable than disrespectable. That is, they don't merit consideration for respect until they ditch the guru; at which time they'd note re-evaluation.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 19:32:06 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Jim
Subject: A poll for ex-premies only
Message:
1) Do you respect any of the premies who have posted here?

I don't respect the opinions or beliefs of any of the current bunch.

2) If so, which ones and why?

I found Haldor's (now Hal) openness to non-premie criticisms a wonderful breath of fresh air, and - hmm - look what happens when you let the fresh air in...

Mel Bourne can string a sentence together, and his willingness to respect the forum guidelines makes him worth having half a discussion with. (Why 'half..? - Well, whenever I'm talking to Mel, he seems to disappear after a few exchanges. Perhaps I should change my deodorant...)

SHP showed integrity when he wrote his letter to EV regarding Jagdeo's child abuse. Shame he seemed reluctant to draw obvious conclusions from their failure to reply.

CD and Mili use their own names - but that, in itself, is no more worthy of respect than being able to tie your shoelaces. But at least you don't get the feeling of being sniped at by unknown entities.

But respect? No way...

3) If you do not respect some or all of the premies who have posted here, which ones come to mind and why?

NIL/URL/*(*(&! - arrogant, obnoxious and offensive.

Mili - can't see the absurdity or hypocrisy of simultaneously decrying the presence of this site and condemning ex-premie 'lies' (unstated), trying to get the place shut down etc., whilst partaking of our hospitality, posting 'funny' links etc., and hoping to be listened to.

Catweasel - his cowardly harrassment and threats aimed at Pete Howie (who always uses his own name) could give wankers everywhere a bad name.

And there's 'Hector' by name...

'O' - Too silly by miles. Not worth even trying to talk to. I suspect he is URL reincarnated through his familiar insistence that nobody here ever 'had that experience' or that 'you can't prove M isn't God'.

And all the nameless, multi-aliased hordes ('Basher William' et al.) who resort to ad hominem attacks whenever they are stuck for arguments - which is always. The amazing thing is they seem to imagine they doing M a favour by making such an embarrassing show of themselves.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:45:13 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A poll for ex-premies only
Message:
Jim,

1) No
2) N/A
3) I can't think of one reason to respect any premie. I hate preachers. An' they ALL preach summat,

ol' misery guts,

Coach

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:37:52 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A poll for ex-premies only
Message:
The person I respect the least is gwh.

Dettmers was the biggest disappointment, but I suppose his self-protection is understandable.

Mili is often infuriating, but too silly to really hate. He does not always live up to his email address @cheerful.

I personally think both Mel Bourne and Dep Dog are both more close to being ex-premies than they realize.

The premie named Susan who compared Rawat to the Wizard of Oz was the biggest fool, a few years back.

Sean and Sandy both seen very unwilling to place any blame on Rawat for his failure to control Jagdeo, but this obviously disturbs them greatly. They're just not ready to let go.

I'm glad @#*%!% is not around anymore.

I do like and respect Annie Sosman. We have lots in common, as we discovered off-line.

David Simpkiss doesn't post enough to form a judgement of him.

Elaine is a mystery, so seemingly self-contradictory.

I'm reserving judgement of O until later.

Rob is, by far, my favorite premie to have ever posted here. I am curious as to why his great intelligence was never evident when he was a Maharaji apologist, and why he expresses himself so much better now that he has given Rawat the heave-ho.

The not-ever premies, Jondon, AP, and Daneanne are all remarkable. (ps. Jondon, how did the showing of LOTU go?)

Who am I forgetting?

Having judged everyone, I feel a bit sheepish and must add that every person deserves respect as long as they are being true to themselves and others.

Now, do the premies get to air their judgements of us? Or should all the ex-premie regulars all judge each other as well?

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:24:45 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: A poll for ex-premies only
Message:
Having judged everyone, I feel a bit sheepish and must add that every person deserves respect as long as they are being true to themselves and others.

Now, do the premies get to air their judgements of us? Or should all the ex-premie regulars all judge each other as well?

Way,

What you say above is the essence of what it means to be a premie, a lover of TRUTH. Be true to yourself and your own experience. If it is not true for you it is not true.

You are more close to being a premie than you realize. Actually I think you are one.

As Ram Dass says 'If we remember the highest wisdom - that energy and love are one - this journey will be without fear.'

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 15:11:05 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: To Dep Dog, on being a premie
Message:
DD,

A premie is a lover of truth, you say.

And I concur.

It is easy to love the truth. Nothing easier in the universe. The only reason little children tell lies is because they are sometimes afraid that the truth will hurt. But the kind of hurting that the truth brings is the best hurting of all, it is actually joy. And when children grow up, (and it takes a long time to grow up), they overcome their fear of truth. Acceptance is sweet. Yes? Surrender is the best strategy. Yes? Lovers of truth is who we all are. We are its puppets, and we are its lovers. All of us. Yes?

There are no saints. People are not supposed to be saints. People who are anywhere close to being saints will recoil in horror at the suggestion.

Richard Alpert is an honorable man. He is now, as you probably know, going through a very difficult time. The compassion which makes its way among us is the highest honor. But be careful. The honor is not ultimately ours, it belongs elsewhere, where compassion originates. I am confindent that Richard Alpert knows this and will gladly accept your compassion, and will forward the honor.

There are no gurus. People are not supposed to be gurus. Gurus are liars. They are afraid that the truth will diminish them, and they are right about that. They have a lot of diminishing to do.

When I was in Maharaji's ashram, I had a silver pendant made for myself, with carvings of the four symbols of Knowledge. An initiator came to town and gave satsang that night that I was wrong to wear the pendant, that premie means lover of the master, not lover of the Knowledge. Was he right? I have answered that question for myself. Have you? Do you love Mr. Rawat? Is that what makes you a premie?

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 23:30:49 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: To Way, on being a premie
Message:
When I was in Maharaji's ashram, I had a silver pendant made for myself, with carvings of the four symbols of Knowledge. An initiator came to town and gave satsang that night that I was wrong to wear the pendant, that premie means lover of the master, not lover of the Knowledge. Was he right? I have answered that question for myself. Have you? Do you love Mr. Rawat? Is that what makes you a premie?

IMO the initiator is entitled to his/her opinion and you are entitled to yours. My understanding is that a premie is a lover of capital T Truth, not lover of a person.

So, you are right for you. IMO the techinques take you to Truth but are not truth in themselves.

What symbolizes Knowledge for me? Japanese zen practitioners have as their symbol a circle, an empty circle, which represents the void, or that part of us that existed before the universe took form. I like that, and have even entertained having one tatooed on my shoulder. The boss however, will have no part of it.

I respect Mr. Rawat, not love, but a deep respect for what he is doing in the world, spreading the experience of Knowledge to every nation and people. I am and remain my own boss though. If it's not true for me, it's not true.

You should dig that pendant out and start wearing it again. I bet it looks way cool.

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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 20:33:26 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: To DD, on the Truth, and the pendant
Message:
DD,

The day after the satsang where I was humiliated for having a pendant of Knowledge instead of a Guru Maharaj Ji pendant, many of my community pals made some comment or other to me. One person offered to buy the pendant from me for $50.00. But too late, I had already thrown it in the trash. This incident happened in 1978 or so. I found it interesting that Mr. Rawat designed a very similar pendant in the mid-80's, in both silver or gold, the silver one being about $50.00 and the gold one about $150.00.

I will react to your latest statements:

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. This is not in question.

It is problematic to use the term 'premie' sometimes when debating here. Mr. Rawat generally avoids it now, and I think we should too when we are trying to make statements that are actually true and will hold up to debate. If premie means lover of Truth, then everyone is automatically a premie. But the term premie is used by both current premies and ex-premies as a person who follows Mr. Rawat specifically. It is logically unfair of you to define terms in accordance with your own opinion, different than what the term generally means.

You say the techniques take you to Truth. I don't want to get too picky with you, but this is not really a true statement. The techniques are only body postures and attention focusing methods. That which actually takes us to Truth is an interesting question - God's grace, our own effort, or just simply opening our eyes, and our minds, and our hearts, (none of which depend on a particular guru or those four techniques).

The fact that you would like to tatoo your shoulder with a plain circle is outside the realm of Mr. Rawat's cult. That is why I have repeatedly said that you are living mostly outside his cult. I think your wife should let you have one tatoo, a little one, but that's all.

You say you respect what Mr. Rawat is doing in this world, but there is a big problem with it, as I see it. He is not just offering a way for people to reach the truth, but a way to follow him in particular. He is actually doing a disservice to the Truth, by the narrow interpretation that he puts on it. Think about this: it would be possible for Mr. Rawat to do things quite differently, still help people relate to the Truth that is found in all traditions, while not perpetrating a cult around himself. I personally respect some other teachers who are today sharing their perspectives without establishing a cult or taking donations for their own lifestyle, for instance Deepok Chopra has generally avoided the cult syndrome while still expressing deep truths (his book 'The Path to Love' is a far more worthy statement on higher truths than anything Prem Pal Singh Rawat has ever said, or is capable of saying. (I am not a follower or an apologist of Chopra and do not wish to discuss him, by the way).

I do not believe that you have ever really defined your relationship to Mr. Rawat, even though I have inquired. For instance, if you go to his live programs and watch the satellite feeds, and really gain some inspiration from him nowadays. I personally find what he has to say extremely, extremely limited and I am surprised that people find it so deeply inspiring. Of course it is a personal matter that you might not want to discuss here, but in being this reticent, don't be surprised that we don't really understand your position. You do not make it understandable.


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Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 03:19:39 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: To Way, on the Truth, and the pendant
Message:
If premie means lover of Truth, then everyone is automatically a premie.

I disagree I think you have to know how to go inside before you can see Truth.

But the term premie is used by both current premies and ex-premies as a person who follows Mr. Rawat specifically. It is logically unfair of you to define terms in accordance with your own opinion, different than what the term generally means.

IMO a premie is someone who loves Truth. That's all. It's a generic term used in India for anyone following a spiritual life. It's the same with satsang, generic. If Mr. Rawat were to die tomorrow, I would still be able to contact the serenity within. That is my story and I'm sticking to it.

Just an idea Way, but why don't you buy one of those pendents advertised on the ELK site, you know, just for old times sake. Then you've have closure on that humiliating experience and a great conversation piece.

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Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 15:15:16 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: The crux of our (profound) disagreement.
Message:
Way said:
If premie means lover of Truth, then everyone is automatically a premie.

DD said:
I disagree I think you have to know how to go inside before you can see Truth.

Ah there it is, the poison on the tip of the arrow. You are simply wrong here, Dep and this is where your deep programming shows up so blatantly. This is one concept you MUST erase from your mind. It is simply not true, places a unbridgeable gulf between you and the rest of humanity, and insures your enslavement. It is highly destructive to you and anyone you interact with.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 15:33:45 (GMT)
From: Premspal
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: To Dep Dog, on being a premie
Message:
? Do you love Mr. Rawat? Is that what makes you a premie?

Yes, yes, yes !!!

Oh Deputy Dog, you are stalwart and faithful as man's best friend !!! PLEASE join us at I Love Maharaji

Our leader, the brave and beautiful Tim has received inner agya in a dream and all REAL premies are to propogate this blessed site !!!

Please be sure to click on my name 'Premspal' to get to know me a little better for I am sure we shall be great, uh, pals !!! Yes, that's it !!! We are all 'Premspals' aren't we !!!

Soon i shall have my picture there for all to see that I am a fearless and fierce lover of the Perfect Master of our age !!!

Bhole shri to all.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:53:06 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: You put your finger right on it, Dog
Message:
What you say above is the essence of what it means to be a premie, a lover of TRUTH. Be true to yourself and your own experience. If it is not true for you it is not true.

The question whenever this issue of cults comes up, of course, is whether a person can ever be so bamboozled by an entire belief system or, more particularly, a fraudulent way to approach one's 'self' that 'self-knowledge' becomes anything but.

You have demonstrated time and again that you're simply not ready for that discussion. Might never be. People die with all sorts of stupid ideas.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 04:05:47 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You really don't get it do you Jim?
Message:
When I practice I have no ideas, I'm above it all.

As Ram Dass says 'If we remember the highest wisdom - that energy and love are one - this journey will be without fear.'

Energy! Not a belief system. Not thinking, no thought, no ideas, completely empty, out of the mind spin. The centre of the cyclone. Crash through! Blast off! Break on through to the other side.

Peace - Serenity - Transcendence - Quiet. Do any of these words mean anything to you Jim? Did you ever have an experience of MEDITATION?

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 08:41:08 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Slack, slack, slack, as usual dog
Message:
When I practice I have no ideas, I'm above it all.
As Ram Dass says 'If we remember the highest wisdom - that energy and love are one - this journey will be without fear.'

Err, dog, how can ram dass, one without knowledge, a non-followere of the guru, understand the truth?
Exactly, because it has nothing to do with any special little magic potion that gm and no-one else has, but is a state accessed all over the world every day by anyone who is alive, whether they believe in a god themselves or not, whether it's down the pub etc etc

Energy! Not a belief system. Not thinking, no thought, no ideas, completely empty, out of the mind spin. The centre of the cyclone. Crash through! Blast off! Break on through to the other side.
Peace - Serenity - Transcendence - Quiet. Do any of these words mean anything to you Jim? Did you ever have an experience of MEDITATION?

Let's forget the baggage argument, you've got just as much baggage as anyone else dep, and you're fooling yourself if you think you haven't, but but but

I take it, a premie, for you, is someone accessing that experience.
By this, and bearing in mind that you agreed the other day that this experience would be accessible without gm, then the word premie is just referring to 'lover of god', but there are lots of lovers of god who aren't premies (followers of gm), so why usre the word, it's unbelievably sloppy, using it as an ultimate definition. But then you've listened a lot, no doubt, to the ultimate mr wibbly-wobbly of language, the prawn rawatt hotel manager hisself, rather too much I suspect, but I doubt you care, cause everything here's a bit of a game, hey dep!

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 05:35:15 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Oh I think he gets it, but do you?
Message:
Hi DD,

Just wanted to throw in a dime's worth, nothing too confrontational.

I think sometimes it's easy to lose the focus of what this site's about and consequently our arguments rage and roam all over the place.

Your last two posts express your beliefs in spiritual experiences, perhaps derived from meditation, contemplation etc. Am I right?

I don't think many people here have a problem with that, ie that there is or may be an altered state of awareness which human beings can achieve through various practices. If you are as sincere about it as you sound, then kudos to you.

But the focus here is in unravelling the mystique and chauvinism which Mr Rawat has enveloped his cult in. He has essentially adopted four common yoga techniques as the nucleus for a vast and complex quasi-religion with himself as the self-acclaimed deity.

So your quotes from Ram Dass, John Lilly (center of the cyclone), Jim Morrison (break on through to the other side), while inspiring in one sense, are entirely irrelevant to the purpose of debating the main issues here.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 17:18:18 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Oh I think he gets it, but do you?
Message:
Did he use that Jim Morrison quote AGAIN? I thought it was just for me?!!

PS to DD, it's really not a good idea to use that quote, remember? because J. M. did not come to a 'nice end.'

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 04:12:40 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Yeah, I get it alright
Message:
You're naive.
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 13:41:47 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Naive? Yeah right. I almost died of cynicism (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 13:59:24 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Sounds like a fearsome (but imaginary) disease
Message:
Dep 'almost died' of cynicism.

Yeah, and Tinkerbell almost died when all the little boys and girls stopped believing in fairies.

And the little Maharaji inside of you gets sad when you don't concentrate on those rare nostaligic occasions when you still sing arti at programs but instead imagine fucking that girl two rows ahead.

Oh, and I forgot, all the premies who for sure wouldn't have lasted in 'this world' one day longer if Maharaji hadn't found them right there and then.

And other silly myths .....

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 22:14:50 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It's as bad as grudgitus and almost as deadly (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 23:38:18 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, you didn't answer my questions
Message:
When I practice I have no ideas, I'm above it all. As Ram Dass said 'If we remember the highest wisdom - that energy and love are one - this journey will be without fear.'

Energy! Not a belief system. Not thinking, no thought, no ideas, completely empty, out of the mind spin. The centre of the cyclone. Crash through! Blast off! Break on through to the other side.

So Jim, here are the questions again:

1. Peace - Serenity - Transcendence - Inner Quiet. Do any of these words mean anything to you?

2. Did you ever have an experience of MEDITATION?

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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 00:12:39 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: U don't deserve shit but here r the answers anyway
Message:
1. Peace - Serenity - Transcendence - Inner Quiet. Do any of these words mean anything to you?

The first two words mean to me just what you'll find in the dictionary. Look 'em up yourself. Too boring for me to. It'd be like me asking you what 'happiness' means. Too romper room. 'Trancendence' means nothing, as far as I'm concerned. Not in the context of gurus and meditation and all that. 'Inner quiet' is a false and impossible ideal. Your mind keeps on going even if it's only your mind thinking how wonderful that you're not thinking.

2. Did you ever have an experience of MEDITATION?

Sure. Why do you ask?

Of course, I did, Dog. The better question is 'what do I think it was?', wouldn't you say? Well my answer is that it was just white noise relaxation turbo-charged by a whole lot of spiritual fantasy. The kind of stuff you revel in.

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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 17:22:14 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, you are like a stream of bat's piss
Message:
All I meant by that is that you shine out like a shaft of gold when all around is dark.*

Now that I have your attention, if you can meditate (practice) for an hour and not feel:
- clearer
- more peaceful
- happier
- serene
- more amicable
- more relaxed and a ease
- more in touch with your natural wisdom
- more distance from the everyday hassles
- free from the incessant chatter of the mind, the story
- more awake
then maybe you are justified in your anger toward M.

But believe it or not Jim, there are many people out there who get an incredible amount of value from Knowledge. Why not let them enjoy it?

-- Dogg

* My thanks to Monty Python

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Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 02:24:11 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: 'Let's hope and pray...
Message:
...that somewhere there's intelligent life out there...
'Coz there's bugger all down here on earth'

('The Galaxy Song' - from 'The Meaning of Life')

Did you watch 'Life of Brian', Dogg?

I don't think Monty Python would make useful witnesses to your cause, somehow.

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Date: Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 03:03:43 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: 'Let's hope and pray...
Message:
Nige,

Dunno, apparently John Cleese is quite a seeker.

I too loved the film Life of Brian. I'm an individualist who likes to think for himself, and IMO that's what 'The Life of Brian' is all about.

Also liked The Meaning of Life, in which they pretty much said that life can't be understood, don't even try. Just be nice to people read a good book now and then and take regular walks. That was the message at the end of the film.

You know you exes really have an antiquated idea of who most premies are. Sure there are the ELK types out there, but there are also regular people who like Monty Python and who like to take 'the ride inside.'

If memory serves, a lot of the people in the ashram were just like the people who followed Brian around repeating everything he said, rather than think for themselves.

I'm sorry, is this the five-minute argument or the full half-hour?

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 03:52:19 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: A poll for ex-premies only
Message:
What a fucking lie! Dog, you lie like a rug. The Truth that maharaji talks about has nothing to do with honesty in any matter besides one's own selfish bliss and homage paid to the 'master'. You can lie and cheat in any arena of life other than the guru's, and lose no disrespect from the guru, the premies or yourself.

Dog, you're pathetic and I have to say I can't disrespect you for it. I wish I could help you, but I'm afraid you're doomed to a life as a fool.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:42:00 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: A poll for ex-premies only
Message:
Thanks for your answers.

No, the premies don't get to say shit. This is an ex poll on an ex site. Why do you ask?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:59:43 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: To Jim
Message:
Jim,

Why do I ask? Just curious. No, no, I'm not curious. Yes, yes, I am curious, sort of vaguely curious. No, no, I'm definitely not curious.

(Obviously, the premie we met recently known as curious/not curious is a bit of a schizo).

What about you, is there any premie that you respect?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 16:09:22 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: To Way
Message:
Well, I don't respect Annie at all. I know her from our days together in the ashram. I see how she's retreated into a new-age shell that is much owrse than twenty years ago. She used to sound pretty intelligent back then. Now she's got that typical stripped-screw syndrome. Impossible to reason with. Personally, I'd rather be dead.

No, I don't respect any premies I can think of. Neither here nor in real life. And that's a problem because I have one or two friends in town who are still premies and yes, it's hard to say but true that I don't respect them. Not in this area, at least. I find them to be intellectual cowards and that cowardice leads them to be liars. And that ain't pretty.

I mean, I respect guys like Mike just fine if it comes to jamming a bit or maybe, just sitting around for a few minutes and carefully avoiding the juiciest subject we have in common. Or Pete, my old roommate, who refuses to talk openly about Maharaji and who says the most inane things about him when he does. An otherwise super-smart guy, he's an idiot in this one realm. And the list goes on. All of them disgust me in their intellectual cowardice. So no, no respect whatsoever.

And of the premies who post here? No, their weaknesses far outnumber their strengths. Being a premie brings out the worst in a person, I'm afraid.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 21:35:11 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Intellectual stupidity
Message:
You know, Jim, the premies I know in real life are super intelligent. (Aside from believing in Maharaji, of course) And I find that many of the exes I have met are super intelligent, as well. What is up with that? How can people who are SO smart have fallen for something so dumb?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:21:32 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A poll for ex-premies only
Message:
I respect O for his mental acumen and accurate,punctuality

I respect Sandy for his luxuriant head of hair.

I respect Elaine for her clear thinking and honesty.

I respect Deputy Dog for his courage and tenacity.

I respect Mili for his constant cheerfulness.

I respect CD for his wit and economy of words.

I respect Bjorn for his...scratch that, he's a perv.

I'm sure there's more and will amend my list as others jog my memory. In all, they're a great bunch of great souls and it's my priviledge and joy to share the same cyber home with these fine, fine people.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 16:39:02 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: A poll for ex-premies only
Message:
Hey,my punctuality and spelling are great.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:52:31 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Oh, that will make you loads of friends here...
Message:
Thanks Marianne, you are by far my favorite defense attorney!!!

Hope to visit some time later this summer. Patty heads to NYC this weekend. (Couldn't force me there with a crow bar.) She owes me a FUN vacation in a FUN town like you know where. !!!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:46:31 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: gErRy is my favorite Ex-premie! nt
Message:
xxxxxx
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:42:40 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: I forgot the comma guy
Message:
Han,,,,, He irritates me!
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 11:03:56 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Forum Stuck??
Message:
'Bookmark has yielded the post title below as first one in the line of threads.

Rob -:- Spin doctoring (to Mili) -:- Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 00:52:36

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 11:12:37 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: Forum Stuck??
Message:
I've had similar problems off and on for the past ten days. I have IE and seem to have solved the problem by deleting temporary internet files and clearing history. Good luck.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 11:36:21 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: I always have that problem on IE
Message:
For some reason, IE seems to access a cached version of the forum a LOT. Thus I usually use Netscape to read it. Zelda, check the time at the top of the forum when you access it - if it is not the right time, then your browser is pulling up a cached (older) version.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 10:25:10 (GMT)
From: El Capistrano
Email: None
To: U no who
Subject: therefore, I say, verily unto you, ye will have
Message:
great blessings.
Upon which lies, a soothing aspiration of due process,in the
truest sense.
Et tous Brute??
Non. 4 thee shall reign supremest upon thy midnite hour,
when all is well, and men were men
and the sheep were afraid.
verily I say to you, foregoest the cloud.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 01:28:54 (GMT)
From: Jorge
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Spanish forum?
Message:
Is there a spanish ex-premie forum? Could I have the address please?

Thanks,
Jorge

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 02:29:42 (GMT)
From: Por supuesto!
Email: None
To: Jorge
Subject: Spanish forum?
Message:
Spanish Forum

Spanish Main Page

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 16:55:06 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Hey,ged's over there.....NT
Message:
om
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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 20:36:37 (GMT)
From: sundiva
Email: artafacts@silk.net
To: Everyone
Subject: names of organizers 1972-73
Message:
Vancouver B.C. 1972-73 Also Nelson B.C. I'm looking for names of organizers as well as Premies who resided in these two missions at dates above. I am an ex premie and would like to connect with people I knew from that time. If anyone knows anyone, please help. Thank you.

Sundiva

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 14:38:40 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: sundiva
Subject: names of organizers 1972-73
Message:
Hi,

I was around then. Vancouver ashram, a few trips to Nelson when that town first took off. Our band played at that big Tejeshwaranand program where he fucked with everyones' minds then gave three Knowledge sessions throughout the night, everyone saw Maharaji and assorted Masters in the light which, truth be known, Gary Ockendeon was actually demonstrating while Tej was in the back room knocking up some 'sister'.

Who are you?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 16:50:11 (GMT)
From: Boris
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: names of organizers 1972-73
Message:
I remember Gary from India. What happened to him?

Boris

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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 16:11:44 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: More than one alias
Message:
It is the forum policy to delete posts by people who post under several aliases. Several posts have been deleted today, and in a couple of cases, a few posts below them, in the same thread were deleted too.

Please use one alias, not a new alias every time you post.

FA

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 09:43:07 (GMT)
From: Ruphus
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: Re: more than one alias
Message:
You only delete posts when the person is not an ex-premie.

Any reason for this discrimintation.

Is this a kind of racist issue?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 10:03:32 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Ruphus
Subject: Racism
Message:
Hi Rufus,

Premies do not belong to a unique 'race'. They belong to a religious cult. It's not a 'race' issue. It's a cult issue. This forum is here for ex-cult members, not toe kissing, 'devotees of the living perfect master'.

Ex-premies and 'never even been premies' do get kicked off the forum sometimes, and are even occasionally banned.

That idiot who was kicked off yesterday was not only using a different alias with every post, but was also rude and offensive. Good ridance to the creep.

Anth the cultist.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 11:15:58 (GMT)
From: Ruphus
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Coward, rude and offensive persons
Message:
To anth the cultist

The idiot of yesterday was indeed rude and offencive, but this was a respons to and he was facing Jim. Jim seems to be rude and offensive in his nature and acted like a coward not facing the person he ridiculed. So did you.

Do you approve such behaviour.

BTW you mean it is a 'cult discrimination'. One rule for one person, one rule for the cult person! It is a fact just now that the ex-premies posting under fake names in order to ridicule premies, and expremies using other names just for fun are not deleted by the FA:

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 13:00:57 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Ruphus
Subject: Coward, rude and offensive persons
Message:
Ruphus,

Sometimes in the name of humour, people post in different names, ie. Pauline Premie. This is somewhat acceptable in terms of etiquette and consideration of others. What in my opinion is not acceptable , is to make personal attacks against someone whilst not giving a name or pseudonym. This is cowardly , no. ?

Hal

ps have you ever posted before using a different alias to Ruphus? Come on be honest now.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 12:07:27 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Ruphus
Subject: For crying out loud!
Message:
Ruphus -
The biggest decision when MAKING this forum was whether premies should be allowed to post here or not. It WAS decided that premies would be allowed to post here, but that doesn't mean it's not an ex-premie forum - like it says right at the top of the page.

It's never been a secret that ex-premies get preferential treatment here. That's because the forum exists for them, is run by them, and is meant to be of help to them. If the FA's, and/or a number of people on the forum, feel that a premie poster is hindering this process, then their posts get deleted or they get blocked.

I am sorry to be rude, but I get extremely tired of premies complaining that this FA's on this forum discriminate against them, like it's some dirty secret. As Anth pointed out, ex-premie posts do get deleted, and ex-premies do get blocked. However, this is far more likely to happen to premies. That's the way it is and always has been here.

By the way, it is really easy to set up a forum of your own if you don't like the rules on this one. I recommend this to anyone who has major complaints about this forum because you are not going to change the rules on this one by complaining. In fact, there is (was?) a forum for premies and friends, on which negative ex-premie posts were deleted. Very few people used it. None of the pro-Maharaji sites have forums - in fact, this is one of the only places on the internet where premies can converse about Maharaji at all.

Sincerely,
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 13:13:37 (GMT)
From: Paul
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Well said. EOM
Message:
EOM
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 12:54:14 (GMT)
From: Ruphus
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: For crying out loud
Message:
Good post:)
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 11:46:27 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Ruphus
Subject: Look at it another way Ruphus.
Message:
Ruphus,

You've got the wrong idea about this place.

Imagine a group of people who were sucked into following the Rev. Sung Yung Moon. They endured nightly brainwashing sessions, were deprived of all their worldly goods, and went around believing the Rev Moon was the Messiah, and his teachings were an experience of ultimate truth. They were discouraged from questioning their role, and their masters role, and encouraged to 'surrender more' if they had any problems.

Then eventually a few of them wise up, realise they've been trapped in a religious cult, and begin to reasses their view of the world and life in general. They realise that to readjust to living in the 'normal' world- ie, outside the Rev Moons little cult with its wacky beliefs, takes some time and effort, because you don't get over several years brainwashing overnight.

These ex-moonies start their own website, where they can discuss their experiences with other ex-moonies, or other moonies who have started to notice the cracks in the walls of paradise. They find great benefit discussing their experiences with each other, getting the Rev Moon into perspective, and overcoming the fear their cult instilled in them.

Then some heavy duty moonies discover the site, and start posting stuff telling the poor recovering exes, that the Rev Moon really is the Lord, his teachings are an experience of the divine, and all these ex-moonies are very confused, and heading for hell and damnation if they continue their foolish ways. The Ex Moonies avoid serious discussion and are rude, aggressive and argumentative.

What do you think Ruphus? Should the brainwashed Moonies be allowed to disrupt the Ex-Moonie website with their cult diatribe? Or should the Exes be left to get on with their cyber-therapy in peace?

And when the Ex-Moonies finally kick the Moonies off their site, is it 'a kind of racism'?

I'd be interested in what you think about my hypothetical situation Ruphus.

Anth the Hypothetical

ps, both Jim, myself, and several others here post under our own names.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 12:50:57 (GMT)
From: Ruphus
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Look at it
Message:
To Anth the Hypothetical (is that your real name or is it AWJ)

Good example.
In my opinion it is healthy to have different perspectives in a group. If everybody agree about the main thing, it will be weird.

I think if discrimination happens, the ex-moonies have already developed their own cult.

You write:
'Then some heavy duty moonies discover the site, and start posting stuff telling the poor recovering exes, that the Rev Moon really is the Lord, his teachings are an experience of the divine, and all these ex-moonies are very confused, and heading for hell and damnation if they continue their foolish ways. The Ex Moonies avoid serious discussion and are rude, aggressive and argumentative.'
Did you really mean this last sentence?

Wonder where I read : premies are idiots, there is no experience, all premies are completely stupid, the master is nothing but a fraud, it is because of him that we are totally failures, it is only about money, their master is an alchoholic, a drug abuser, so are his children, we have been into this 20 year ago, so we know all about it, Maharaji is knowingly allowing his personell to abuse children, we break the laws, but he is the bad guy, the experience we bragged about for years was just fake, and so on.......

and why have I only read about the desriptions of the Lord and the way to hell, in desriptions from fake and real Ex-premies?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 14:49:08 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Ruphus
Subject: The word 'cult' in premie mouths is hilarious
Message:
I think if discrimination happens, the ex-moonies have already developed their own cult.

It is a never-ending source of what chief Hamster ass-kisser, Gurucharanand, might call 'jwah' (read 'joy'), to watch you cult members mouth the word 'cult'. It's the epitome of childishness the way you guys try to adopt this potent, robust descriptor as your own sword. It's as if you're all standing there like little babies barely old enough to chant the universal kiddie defence, 'I know you are but what am I?' What babies you are! And no wonder most of you are afraid to post under your real names.

Well, I guess when Phase 2 or whatever phase we're in now really kicks off we'll wipe those smiles off our faces, huh? Maharaji's on the move, isn't he? Can't wait!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:40:16 (GMT)
From: Ruphus
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The word 'cult'
Message:
I wrote:
'I think if discrimination happens, the ex-moonies have already developed their own cult.'

Well, IMO a group of people unwilling to welcome or listen to people with different understanding, will be regarded by most people as a cult.

I did not mention that premies or ex-preimies are cults.

Wise man Jim, tell me, and do not come with crap;
'Why is a group of ex-moonies in a closed interactive (internet)community who are unwilling to welcome or communicate with outsiders, not be considered as a cult?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 19:48:13 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Ruphus
Subject: Ruphus
Message:
'Ruphus' - you appear to be the poster with multiple aliases (whose posts have now been deleted). If you are intent on staying, may I request you abide by the guidlelines use just this one alias from now on?

Thanks,
FA

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:58:56 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Ruphus
Subject: I'm sorry, you're just plain stupid
Message:
Well, IMO a group of people unwilling to welcome or listen to people with different understanding, will be regarded by most people as a cult.

That is about the dumbest definition of a cult I ever heard of. My friends and I are unwilling to welcome or listen to Heaven's Gate members. Most people will not regard us as a cult. However, they will regard you as an idiot for thinking so poorly.

'Why is a group of ex-moonies in a closed interactive (internet)community who are unwilling to welcome or communicate with outsiders, not be considered as a cult?

This is about the funniest (i.e. dumbest) thing I've heard a premie say all day. We're not the ones stonewalling all outside inquiries, avoiding the press, stifling dialogue. Hey, we let idiots look you post here, don't we?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:55:39 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Ruphus
Subject: The word 'cult'
Message:
You asked:
Why is a group of ex-moonies in a closed interactive (internet)community who are unwilling to welcome or communicate with outsiders, not be considered as a cult?

First, and probably foremost, you neglected to mention it is ONLY in that setting that these people are 'unwilling to communicate with outsiders'. This does not mean that they don't do it elsewhere!

I can think of lots of other groups who do the same thing: closed AA meetings are only for alcoholics (they have open AA meetings too), women's therapy group are only for women, graduate student meetings in my department are only for graduate students in that department, and on and on. The reason being that sometimes people need a place to communicate where they KNOW that everyone there has been through, or is going through, the same thing they have. I don't think these groups are cults - do you?

I challenge you or any other premie here to set up a premie-only forum so that premies can talk openly and honestly about their experiences of knowledge. I am guessing that it won't happen, and I have a pretty good idea why - it seems like Maharaji doesn't WANT people to talk about their own experiences anymore (he, or 'people around him' have already requested that a similar site be taken off line a few years ago). That, in my opinion, is why premies come here to talk.

BTW, if you ARE Bjorn, I thought you were never coming back, and that this forum had had an extremely negative effect on your life.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 10:27:05 (GMT)
From: Tim Matheson
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: The word 'cult'-Premie only Forum
Message:
Yes, there is now a premie only forum. Coming soon, I'll be writing my weekly column there The Inner Buzz. In it, I will be passing on to my premie friends those messages OUR BEAUTIFUL LORD has directed me and others to do. HE has helped me so much since I crawled back to HIM. I rarely drink more than a litre of tequilla anymore. Just click on link below.

Join the Premie-only Forum and sing HIS Praises

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Date: Mon, Jul 03, 2000 at 02:33:31 (GMT)
From: devotee
Email: None
To: Tim Matheson
Subject: The word 'cult'-Premie only Forum
Message:
I visited your site: You are a true devotee!!

When aRE WE SINGING aRTI? i MUST SING AND PRAISE MY BELOVED GURU mAHARAJI, gOD INCARNATED.....SOOONNN

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 20:42:09 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: 'Ruphus' is not Bjorn
Message:
Hi Katie,

Just thought I should clarify that Ruphus is not Bjorn - even though both have used a number of aliases recently.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 13:51:34 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Ruphus
Subject: Look at it
Message:
Wonder where I read : premies are idiots....all premies are completely stupid ....

I don't believe this. I believe we were all victims of mental manipulation. One's intelligence has nothing to do with it. It happens to the best and the brightest.

there is no experience

There may very well be an 'experience'. It may even be a good one. It's the dependence on m and his 'Knowlege' for this experience that's quite problematic for many outsiders taking an objective look at the cult.

the master is nothing but a fraud,

Not totally. At times he can be a very charming fraud.

it is only about money

Wrong again. It's also about idolatry.

their master is an alchoholic, a drug abuser

Well we know that m did have a drinking problem during his 'Perfect Master' era, and I personally suspect Mike Donner's story of m boinkering the joint to be true.
But for what it's worth, when I had the opportunity to observe m relatively close up for over two hours at his residence some 4 years ago...the only thing m seemed to be suffering from was his usual, chronic condition of Larditis

we have been into this 20 year ago, so we know all about it,

Sorry, but it hasn't even been a full two years since I left the cult.

Maharaji is knowingly allowing his personell to abuse children,

I don't believe m is knowingly allowing child abuse to be happening in his cult. BUT child abuse IS now part of this cult's history and m, who failed to stop it when he did find out about it, is now putting up a conspiracy of silence and obfuscation of the issue as his defence.

we break the laws, but he is the bad guy,

Observe one of the fundamental rules of all community conmen.
Accuse your critics and enemies of what you yourself are doing, in an effort to spread as much confusion as possible.

the experience we bragged about for years was just fake,

Well I don't see too many exes bragging about the experience anymore. As I said, IMO we were manipulated and in coming to terms with how that process came to take hold in our lives, we're able to slowly regain much of the freedom we lost in the cult. Most of all, the freedom to truly be ourselves.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 21:41:00 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Joey, nice points!-nt
Message:
spot on, man
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 14:46:16 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Very good post, Joey! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 13:15:40 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Ruphus
Subject: Cults
Message:
Hi Ruphus,

In my example I was talking hypothetically, about Moonies. You switched to talking about premies somewhere along the line and sort of lost me.

Anyway Ruphus, I don't think all premies are idiots, I don't think there is 'no experience', I don't think your master is a fraud, it's not all about money, I don't know whether the master is an alcoholic, I don't know about his children's personal lives since I lost contact with them, I beleive your master has been, and still is, doing nothing about a paedophile who was for years a full time official in his organisation. The experience we 'bragged about' for years wasn't 'fake', but it wasn't what we said it was either.

So Ruphus, what's the difference between a premie and a moonie?

Anth (real name) AJW (real initials)

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 13:48:51 (GMT)
From: Ruphus
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Cults
Message:
If you want to find the differences between 2 kind of people you have to know the differences and the similarities. Honestly I do not know much about moonies.
To one extent, one difference is that they have different masters.

I can't help you better than that.

BTW, If I remeber correctly you were a premie a few years ago. So to Anth the hypothetical, what would have been your answer to this question when you were a premie ?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 15:37:33 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Ruphus
Subject: Good question Ruphus.
Message:
As a devoted premie I would have said, 'My master is the perfect one, come again to save humanity. All others are fake anti-christs', which would be exactly the same answer you'd get from a Moonie, or any other guru worshipping cult member.

Anth the glad I snapped out of it.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 21:21:04 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Good answer Anth!
Message:
Good answer Anth!

Was there a big turning point for you that triggered your leaving the portals of premiedom? A kind of psychic enema? Or did it just drift out of you ... ?

(I'd really like to know.)

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 07:59:30 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Most of it's in my Journey cq,
Message:
the crunch was the final programme I went to at Wembley, almost two years ago, when i saw a security guy throw a new born baby out of the hall into an awful rainstorm. I thought, 'What sort of experience is this guy having? What has he realised about life? What good has this knowledge and his master done him? Why are all these people behaving like zombies? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaagh! I'm in a cult! Let me out. I need a beer, a spliff and a shag.'

Something like that.

Anth the stoned, drunk and shagged out. (It's a wonderful life.)

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 19:43:47 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Thanks Anth, but one more question re your Journey
Message:
Thanks Anth, but one more question re your Journey:

The goons might be dethpickabull, but do you still think ol' Rawatty-poos is worthy of compassion?

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 18:18:44 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: 2 down, one to go - dreaming in technicolour
Message:
but I'm not coming out of a cult, am I?

(Isn't that 'Wonderful Life' a movie?) And, yes, it is.

Isn't the 'real' world essential?

I think we agree.

Comment vas tu a Paris? I was there briefly in '75. I imagine that it has changed a lot. (Jean-Michel?)

Ou sont les accents gravesÉ (?) OK, that's an aigue, but I still can't find an 'a' accent grave.


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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 13:05:19 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Ruphus
Subject: Ruphus do you know Bjorn? nt
Message:
You sound kinda similar( to say the least).
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 14:37:59 (GMT)
From: gERry
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: You mean it's Bjorn the pedophile???
Message:
He must be out trolling again. Next he'll want to hear blow-by-blow descriptions of peoples' sexual abuse at the hands of the ''greatest king's'' rapist ''great souls.''

Get lost Bjorn. Try the ex- Sai Baba sites. I'm sure you can get your rocks off there, you pervert.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 13:52:33 (GMT)
From: hal
Email: None
To: gERry
Subject: Apparently it's not Bjorn again gERry
Message:
According to the post from F:A: above I made a sleuthing error there. OOOps . Sorry Ruphus.

Oh and gERry, you're being way too NICE lately!!!

Best wishes,
Hal

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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 19:10:27 (GMT)
From: Thesaurus
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: More than one alias
Message:
Would that include the obviously fake poster 'Tim Matheson' who is a regular on the forum and who obviously posts with more than one alias??
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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 17:45:04 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: More than one forum style
Message:
Dear FA

(sounds strange to a Brit - to us FA means 'fuck all', but there you go ...)

Anyway,

I appreciate the request for consistency in posting-names, but taking that phrase 'forum style' just a bit further than you'd anticipated ....

I've just discovered a MAJOR difference between this Forum and the French one (and non ... c'est pas que les languages sont un little bit different)

It's this: a reply to a post on the FRENCH forum is time-differentiated - in other words - the reply I just gave to J-M (who posted last night) appears MUCH lower down chronologically, than it would in the English forum.

IMO this is a MUCH better state of affairs, and gives their forum a lot more coherence in terms of who said what to whom and when.

Could you check out the difference, please?

(And adopt it over here, if poss)

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 20:11:51 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: More than one forum style
Message:
Hi cq -
Brian wrote the software for both forums - you may want to ask him (i.e. put his name in heading, because he doesn't read the forum much).

Count on it, though - half the people will like the current style better!

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 19:55:34 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: cq
Subject: More than one forum style
Message:
Hi cq,

The descending/chronoligical thread style is how Forum's II and III used to be. I agree, the threads are far easier to follow like that. Don't know nothing about forum software, though, but it would be interesting to know whether it could be changed.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 20:57:01 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Nigel and Katie
Subject: More than one forum style
Message:
Hi you twos,

I mention this after losing my French Forum cyber-virginity the other night. Who says vive la difference?

But really, it was quite a surprise - my reply to J-M appeared about six inches lower (steady) than I expected. Which meant that the people who replied to him BEFORE me were uppermost in the thread. (Have I explained that clearly?) Well, take a look (or even post yourselves) over on Le Forum Francais.

And Katie, if half the posters prefer things the way they are over here, - that's means that the other half might like a change. Don't it? Oh, I forgot, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. It's Brian I've got to sell the idea to.

OK then, my vote goes for consistency on the two Forums (Forae?)

Tara for now.

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 11:43:14 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: cq, more information
Message:
Hi cq -
Talked to Brian and he says it's a configurable option in the forum software - thus easily changed...IF the FA's want to do it. He says it's up to the FA's - so that's where to make the request, send bribes, etc.

Brian says that Paradise (Forum II) used to do it the way it's done on the French Forum, so the software for Forum III was written that way. However, by the time of Forum IV, Paradise was doing it the way it's done on here now, so the software was changed to ease the transition from Forum IV to Forum V.

Take care -
Katie

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Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 19:46:56 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Merci, Katie (et VP below) que sera, sera? (nt)
Message:
Merci, Katie (et VP below) que sera, sera? (nt)
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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 13:56:18 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: que sera, sera??
Message:
Gee thanks, cg, now I have had that song (as sung by the lovely Doris Day) going through my head all night!

Why don't you just e-mail the FA's and see what they say? Seriously - because it was set up that way when they started administrating the forum.

Like I said though - half the people on here won't like it (snicker!) But then we can always blame YOU!

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 18:19:59 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: KATIE'S THREATENING PEOPLE AGAIN!
Message:
In a post above, (deceptively entitled 'que sera, sera'), Katie has once again resorted to throwing he wieght around in an effort to intimidate another poster. This time, the victim was Chris. Here's what she said:

Like I said though - half the people on here won't like it (snicker!) But then we can always blame YOU!

Note that she can't help but laugh at him even as she utters her threat. This isn't the first time Katie's threatened people. I jstu can't remember the others right now but you know as well as I do that she's been doing this for a long, long time.

I'd report it myself but apparently there's some sort of new rule about whistle-blowing or something. So I don't know what to do.

Any ideas? Surely, this can't be allowed to continue. Who knows who she'll attack next?

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Date: Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 21:32:06 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: JIM, GO READ ELK!
Message:
(Actually, the last thing you brought back was interesting. Can't say so for the rest - how CAN you stomach it?)
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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 21:46:58 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: More than one forum style
Message:
I say: leave things be. Brian has done enough work on these forums for free and has his own life to live. He doesn't need to jump to the demands of the forum everytime someone here wants something to change (unless he WANTS to, of course!)

However, if there are any OTHER volunteers to change the software...I say, 'go for it.'

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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 18:10:54 (GMT)
From: John Wayne
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: More than one forum style
Message:
I think it's because french people are more intelligent... kaiii
Sorry sorry, it's a joke (yes a very bad one), i love you english people and specialy english ex, really.

It's me cq (ach so, remenber ?)
Sorry, for our interventions on the french forum about you, evrybody is a bit paranoiac there. ha ha !

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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 18:40:53 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: John Wayne
Subject: et tu Frankus?
Message:
... how to say? ... c'est l'eau off un effing duck's back pour moi.

(don't know what they're saying - it ain't O level french as I know it!)

Mais, merci bucket-fulls pour les laffs nous had dans le Franglais department.

Je dit:

Vive la differance!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 09:07:39 (GMT)
From: John Wayne
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: et tu Frankus?
Message:
Yes. Sorry for the alias, but they call me like that sometimes on the forum. I read administrator's recommandation, so i don't dare change now. So John Wayne is Frank (or Frankus if you prefer).
Sorry for my incursion. I just wanted to know how the english Forum looks.
Schuss cq, nice to speak with you.
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Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 20:50:15 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Helas
Message:
Helas cq, mon petit fois gras,

Avez-vous been at le cognac?

M Coach

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Date: Thurs, Jun 29, 2000 at 17:19:41 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Coach
Subject: Helas
Message:
At the cognac? Ah, mais non, mon frere (et pas le Special Brew either as it happens).

You'd need to check Zelda's thread ('would someone post legal forms for claiming') below for it all (well most of it) to start making sense.

Then again, perhaps it's better this way ;)

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