Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 09:43:32 (GMT)
From: Jul 01, 2000 To: Jul 09, 2000 Page: 2 Of: 5


Forum Admin -:- forum temporarily locked... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:26:00 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- not quite yet... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:28:52 (GMT)

Zen -:- IMPORTANT -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 10:24:03 (GMT)
__ SB -:- I only translated the most important part... -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 03:55:05 (GMT)
__ VP -:- IMPORTANTE -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:36:13 (GMT)
__ __ Zen -:- IMPORTANTE -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:23:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ VP -:- Intiendo -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:43:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ VP -:- oops -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:44:45 (GMT)
__ JohnT -:- IMPORTANT -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:26:41 (GMT)
__ __ Zen -:- IMPORTANT -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:25:50 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- The first part says ..... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:30:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- A premie robbed 66 millones of dollares -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:26:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Zen -:- A premie robbed 66 millones of dollares -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:32:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- I don't get the message. SB? Any idea? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 13:14:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- In the post bellow Zen explains... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 20:32:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Zen -:- I don't get the message. SB? Any idea? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:35:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- I don't get the message. SB? Any idea? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:06:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- The lemon openers (coded message) -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:10:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- The lemon openers (coded message) -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:15:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- I don't get the message. SB? Any idea? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:00:36 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Is this a new premie site? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 10:30:46 (GMT)
__ __ Zen -:- Is this a new premie site? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:55:46 (GMT)
__ __ paul bunyeon -:- no, butt dis is -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:46:58 (GMT)

Jim -:- Uh oh! Calling Annie Sosman -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:30:07 (GMT)
__ Shintaro -:- Uh oh! Calling Annie Sosman -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 07:56:17 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Not really, Shintaro -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:08:03 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- *** EXTRA! EXTRA! REALLY DUMB PREMIE POST*** -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:26:17 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- If it wasn't harmful, that is... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:20:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- Maybe Maharaji can stay -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:41:12 (GMT)

Jim -:- More 'feedback' to EV (trading in the obvious) -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:54:14 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- A FAQ too far -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:22:37 (GMT)
__ __ Rob -:- Steady on old chap!!! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:46:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Steady on old chap!!! - Bollocks -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 01:54:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- Steady on old chap!!! - Bollocks -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 03:53:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- I'd say it's a line shot (nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 03:10:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Rob -:- Sports term? Ya lost me! Oh well:) NT -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 05:07:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You know, on the line... close call..(nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:33:45 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Time to dust off the ole contingency plan? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:43:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Time to dust off the ole contingency plan? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:45:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- Sir Dave, please... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 20:16:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Sir Dave, please... - Yes, please do -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 12:21:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Time to dust off the ole contingency plan? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:17:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- OT: A question -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 20:24:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry gErRy Gerry -:- Well, yes, um, kinda, but not really, if you know -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 15:12:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Time to dust off the ole contingency plan? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:39:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Katie yer scarin' me... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:20:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Sorry, Ger! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:26:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- Great idea!!!! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:12:44 (GMT)

Jim -:- Is it just me? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:35:14 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Terry Yingling, is her name... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 03:29:16 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Terry Yingling -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 18:50:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- Terry Yingling -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 19:18:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Terry Yingling -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 20:16:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Terry Yingling -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:05:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Terry Yingling -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 00:15:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Terry Yingling -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 02:19:29 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- No, Jim, it's not about you -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:50:18 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- I just left him a voice mail -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:36:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Hey, I think that guy is an EX! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:41:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- Hey, I think that guy is an EX! -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 03:01:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Hey, I think that guy is an EX! -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 13:58:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Hey, I think that guy is an EX! -:- Sat, Jul 08, 2000 at 11:36:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JtF -:- Hey, I think that guy is an EX!/No, not Reggie(nt) -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 11:11:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Shit! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:05:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Shit! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:14:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Shit! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:24:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Shit! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:28:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Shit! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:35:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Can't you call him and leave another message -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:40:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yeah, I was thinking of that -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:45:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PCH -:- hypocrites... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 13:24:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- hypocrites... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 13:50:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PCH -:- hypocrites... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:01:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You're absolutely right -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:24:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- I did complain! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:12:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PCH -:- I did complain! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:22:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Listen to this prick! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 22:07:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- I did complain! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 19:00:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- I did complain! -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 00:19:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- IPs and whois -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 14:05:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Who the fuck are you to say anything? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:35:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- So if this thread disappears -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:19:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- And if I disappear... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 20:45:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- And if I disappear... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:23:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Oh Roger... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:14:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Just because they aren't following me... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:57:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Take care now, Rog ;) -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 18:12:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- barney got eaten up way bad -:- Sat, Jul 08, 2000 at 00:48:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- By cannibals? Really? (burp) --------------(nt) -:- Sat, Jul 08, 2000 at 15:02:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Just because they aren't following me... -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 14:10:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Hi Roger!! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 22:04:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Life in the DC area -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:40:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- yeah, get me a cup of coffee! (nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:51:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hey, that's sexist! (nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:53:03 (GMT)

gErRy -:- Love, on the lighter side -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:25:35 (GMT)
__ VP -:- To gErRy my gene pool brother-ot -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:43:50 (GMT)
__ __ Bill W. -:- explains why I've got a coke habit the size of... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:54:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ VP -:- Dear, God, Man! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:00:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bill W. -:- Things could be worse - the Ashram -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:10:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ VP -:- I'm gullible, what can I tell you? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:14:47 (GMT)

Joe -:- Elan Vital's Lies Re Pedophilia by Mahatma Jagdeo -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:48:55 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- Elan Vital's Lies Re Pedophilia by Mahatma Jagdeo -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 20:32:06 (GMT)
__ Powerman -:- Elan Vital's Lies Re Pedophilia by Mahatma Jagdeo -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:32:11 (GMT)
__ __ Joey -:- Elan Vital's Lies Re Pedophilia by Mahatma Jagdeo -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:07:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ Powerman -:- Elan Vital's Lies Re Pedophilia by Mahatma Jagdeo -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 03:26:03 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Elan Vital's Lies Re Pedophilia by Mahatma Jagdeo -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 23:39:54 (GMT)
__ __ Know it All -:- Where does it say Glen wrote this -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 05:55:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Forum Admin -:- Ok Bjorn / Fairplay / Curious... Scram! -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 13:26:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ The real Know It ALL -:- IMPOSTER POSTING ABOVE -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 16:15:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- IMPOSTER POSTING ABOVE -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:34:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ The Real Know It All -:- IMPOSTER POSTING ABOVE -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 00:20:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- IMPOSTER POSTING ABOVE -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 04:21:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Real Know It All -:- You're right, LE -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 15:59:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- Bjorn -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 21:05:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Where does it say Glen wrote this -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:53:53 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Abi's Painful Report of Molestation by Jagdeo -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:54:38 (GMT)
__ __ Fairplay -:- Abi's Painful Report of Molestation by Jagdeo -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 05:49:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- for the last time... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:58:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- the letter from EV -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 13:54:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- the letter from EV - one question -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:26:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- the letter from EV - one question -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 11:35:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ VP -:- Abi's Painful Report of Molestation by Jagdeo -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:53:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Abi's Report-Just one of many abuses -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 13:31:04 (GMT)

Joe -:- 'Feedback' to Elan Vital -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 21:08:49 (GMT)
__ bill -:- the endless lies of rawat and premies -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 02:59:36 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- the endless lies of rawat and premies -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 06:36:14 (GMT)
__ ex mug -:- Eagle's Nest -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 18:14:18 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Eagle's Nest -:- Sat, Jul 08, 2000 at 01:08:25 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Hey Joe, about that gold crapper -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:51:22 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Hey Joe, about that gold crapper -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 18:35:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Hey Joe, about that gold crapper -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 20:02:06 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Correction -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 21:16:49 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- Off topic -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:09:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Off topic -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:17:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Monmot -:- More Off Topic -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 03:54:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Hi Monmot -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:48:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Off topic -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 03:49:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Off topic -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:50:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ D_Thomas -:- Off topic -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:43:57 (GMT)

Zelda -:- About EV site and Premies reading same -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:39:00 (GMT)

VP -:- Do premies question these things? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:14:57 (GMT)
__ Elaine -:- Do premies question these things? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:34:58 (GMT)
__ __ SB say: Questions? -:- What questions? me,bla, bla, me, me, me.... -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 03:45:57 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Thanks, Elaine -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:06:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- Yes, but Joe -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:29:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Yes, but Joe -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 23:36:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- LOL -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 02:56:40 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Do premies answer these questions?, more like -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 18:35:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elaine -:- Hmm, I went back over the post --- -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 19:55:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Yes Elaine -:- Hmm, I went back over the post --- -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:34:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- so far so good -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 20:07:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- so far so good -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 01:21:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- I can help here -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 21:11:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- so far so ... hmmmm -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 19:28:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- so far so ... hmmmm -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 22:25:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- I'm reading a lot of wisdom in this post, but, -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 05:06:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- I'm reading a lot of wisdom in this post, but, -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 15:38:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- I'm reading a lot of wisdom in this post, but, -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 22:16:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- U don't read my posts because you are a BITCH!! -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 02:40:06 (GMT)
__ SB -:- No VP, is the process... -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 05:23:06 (GMT)
__ TD -:- Do premies question these things? -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:17:53 (GMT)
__ __ VP -:- Hey it's not corrupted now -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 16:43:01 (GMT)
__ __ VP -:- Hi, TD! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:13:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ TD -:- Hi VP, shit my message got corrupted! -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 03:39:10 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Do premies question these things? -:- Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 23:10:12 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Do premies question these things? -:- Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 19:43:26 (GMT)
__ __ Tonette -:- It makes me feel like a jerk- -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:27:56 (GMT)
__ __ shp -:- Reply to Joe -:- Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:19:10 (GMT)


Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:26:00 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: forum temporarily locked...
Message:
The forum is read-only for the time being. In urgent need of archiving. Should be fixed later today, we hope.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:28:52 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: not quite yet...
Message:
it has to get to 1500 posts in active plus inactive. So get yer posts in quick!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 10:24:03 (GMT)
From: Zen
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: IMPORTANT
Message:
Traduzcánlo al Inglés, ya que el mío es muy malo. ¿Conoce alguien a este sujeto?
Clica aquí.Sobre Maharaji
EL URUGUAYO QUE ROBÓ EN EE UU Y ELUDIÓ EL CERCO DEL FBI FUE MIEMBRO DE LA SECTA 'LUZ DIVINA'
Algún día la literatura se ocupará de Ricardo Carrasco. Por ahora conocemos fragmentos de la vida de este uruguayo de 42 años, ex empleado bancario, ex miembro de la secta Luz Divina y ex pelilargo que el pasado 19 de febrero dejó plantado al directorio en pleno del BankBoston en Nueva York y desapareció con 66 millones de dólares en el bolsillo. En las oficinas del FBI una carpeta con su apellido se engrosa a diario. Pero de Carrasco, ni la sombra. Simplemente se esfumó.
Los amigos no se cansan de lanzar loas a Ricardo Carrasco. Lo recuerdan como un muchacho elegante, de trajes impecables, buen hablar, alegre, sociable, inteligente y 'muy hábil para manejar gente'. Fue, de hecho, un intachable empleado del BankBoston entre 1977 y el 19 de febrero de este año cuando se le declaró prófugo y cabecilla de uno de los mayores fraudes del siglo. Nueve años bastaron a Carrasco para desarrollar en Uruguay una meteórica carrera bancaria y obtener la confianza de sus superiores. Contó para ello con una reconocida avidez para aprender sobre trámites bancarios y la facultad que otorga el fluido manejo de cuatro idiomas: español, inglés, francés y portugués. Había ingresado a la institución en 1977, y nueve años más tarde fue trasladado a Nueva York, donde se ocupó como Jefe de Agencia. Algo cambió en su cerebro entonces. En setiembre de 1994 comenzó a ejecutar una maniobra que hoy tiene perplejos a empresarios e investigadores: otorgó créditos de hasta un millón de dólares al empresario argentino Oldemar Carlos Barreiro Laborda, de 49 años, conocido como 'Kuki' y 'Conde de Montenuovo', hasta totalizar un giro global de 66 millones de dólares. Entonces desapareció. Esto fue el 19 de febrero, hace hoy 78 días.
Meditando con el gurú Maharaji
En una vieja casona de Punta Carretas el empleado Ricardo Carrasco y varias decenas de fieles oficiaron durante cuatro años sesiones de meditación y búsqueda espiritual. Lo hicieron guiados por el gurú hindú Maharaji -autodenominado 'Lord del Universo'-, la cabeza visible de la secta Luz Divina, cuya sede se encuentra aún hoy en California, Estados Unidos. En Uruguay, el grupo tuvo su auge entre 1976 y 1979, año en que la represión dictatorial llegó a sus orillas. Luego, los más de 1 000 seguidores continuaron los oficios en casas de familia hasta que la disolución fue casi total. E. R., ex miembro de la secta -a la que prefiere denominar 'misión'-, recuerda a su colega, que entonces usaba el pelo largo, como 'uno de los oradores y preferidos de Maharaji'. De hecho, Carrasco coordinaba y organizaba los viajes que cada año realizaron grupos de uruguayos para visitar al líder hindú en su sede californiana. La secta tenía una actividad mucho más inocente de la que puede pensarse. Los fieles leían o escuchaban oraciones, meditaban en grupo y concertaban caminos para liberar el espíritu de ataduras intelectuales y materiales. 'Ahora entiendo -razona E. R.-, todo tendía a relativizar los valores tradicionales de la sociedad. Era lo mismo robar un banco que regar un jardín.' Y enseguida recuerda: 'Pero la mayoría era gente bien. Carrasco era un tipo de la planta'.
Ricardo Carrasco era de los más inteligentes del grupo, aunque sus amigos de Luz Divina no se quedaban a la zaga. Uno de ellos ocupa hoy un cargo de dirección en uno de los principales diarios del país; otro es presidente de un sindicato de trabajadores de la educación; un tercero fue guitarrista de uno de los mejores grupos de pop y rock del Río de la Plata; un cuarto tuvo un exitoso comercio en Fernández Crespo hasta que decidió emigrar a Estados Unidos. Predominaban personas de alto nivel económico e intelectual, intercaladas con ex ladrones y más de un vendedor ambulante. 'Uno de ellos terminó en Miami vendiendo 'a 'tri' pesos la estampita del Lord'. Todos incondicionalmente seguían al gurú Maharaji, un hombre de piel cetrina, famoso por sus 'sanaciones' y por su constante lucha 'para evitar los peligros e influencias planetarias negativas', tal como rezan los escritos de la secta. La misión promete a sus incondicionales enseñarles a 'ser amos y no esclavos' de su destino y gozar de las curaciones que mediante el tacto o la vista realiza Maharaji desde su sitial en California.
En Montevideo, la madre de Carrasco, la señora M. C. N., mantiene un silencio infranqueable sobre su hijo y el difícil trance en que se encuentra.
Periplo nocturno
Los más selectos rincones nocturnos de Nueva York fueron testigos del festivo tránsito de Ricardo Carrasco. Los investigadores del FBI estuvieron en el bar Bowery, en la discoteca Twilo al oeste de la 27 y en los restaurantes Rialto en la calle Elizabeth y Silvano en Avenida de las Américas, todos lugares de moda. Poco encontraron. Por ahora suman huecos al sinuoso camino de Carrasco desde el 19 de febrero, fecha en que el Directorio del BankBoston le pidió una reunión para explicar 'errores administrativos', hasta la última huella que dejó antes de desaparecer en la niebla. Después de no concurrir a aquella reunión, Carrasco estuvo en Nueva York dos semanas, más que suficientes para preparar su definitiva huida. Tracey Garet, socia de Carrasco en un negocio de antigüedades, comentó de su amigo: 'Lo quiero mucho. Es un buen amigo. Son sólo acusaciones'. Stabilito, propietario del apartamento que habitaba el empleado bancario, ingresó a la vivienda a fines de febrero y encontró luces y el estéreo encendido, el cajón de la cómoda abierto y vacío y costosos trajes en el placard. Días después todo indica que Carrasco volvió por algo más. Muchos cambios indicaban la incursión del inquilino. Un saco estaba en una silla, las llaves del auto y un portafolios se encontraban sobre la mesa. En el contestador, los detectives del FBI escucharon 19 mensajes, la mayoría en español e inquirientes: '¿Dónde estás?'. La Policía aún no puede responder esta pregunta. Sólo agrega que Carrasco estuvo cuatro noches en un modesto hotel de West Village, en una habitación diminuta con un catre y una silla. Y que el 4 de marzo abordó un vuelo de Continental Airlines desde el aeropuerto de Newark con destino a Los Ángeles. Estuvo dos semanas allí y en Santa Mónica. Viajó con el nombre de Scott Campbell, un amigo que conoció por el trabajo común en una fundación de lucha contra el sida. Llevó licencia de conductor, tarjeta de crédito y pasaporte falsos. Después, el silencio. El FBI espera ahora que el público colabore con su investigación. Para ello sugirió al BankBoston que ofrezca una recompensa de U$S 10 000 por información que permita la captura del uruguayo. Es la primera que libra la institución en sus 214 años de historia.

Posdata: Nº189-Viernes 8 de mayo de 1998 ver:http://www.web2mil.com/posdata/980508/politica/politica.html

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 03:55:05 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Zen
Subject: I only translated the most important part...
Message:
because is too long!

Traduzcánlo al Inglés, ya que el mío es muy malo. ¿Conoce alguien a este sujeto?

Clica aquí.Sobre Maharaji

EL URUGUAYO QUE ROBÓ EN EE UU Y ELUDIÓ EL CERCO DEL FBI FUE
MIEMBRO DE LA SECTA 'LUZ DIVINA'

Translate this to english, since mine is very bad. Do you know this individual?

Click here. About Maharaji.

THE URUGUAYAN THAT ROBBED IN THE U.S.AND ELUDED THE FBI WAS A
MEMBER OF THE SECT DIVINE LIGHT MISSION. (Sorry, I said he was a premie)

Algún día la literatura se ocupará de Ricardo Carrasco. Por ahora conocemos
fragmentos de la vida de este uruguayo de 42 años, ex empleado bancario, ex miembro de la secta Luz Divina y ex pelilargo que el pasado 19 de febrero dejó plantado al directorio
en pleno del BankBoston en Nueva York y desapareció con 66 millones de dólares en el bolsillo. En las oficinas del FBI una carpeta con su apellido se engrosa a diario. Pero de
Carrasco, ni la sombra. Simplemente se esfumó.

Some day literature will take care of Ricardo Carrasco. For now we know fragments of the life of this 42 years-old Uruguayan ,ex employee of a bank, ex-member of DLM and the past february 19th stood up the directory in the moddle of BankBoston, en New York,
and desappeared with 66 millons of dollars in his pockets. In the office of the FBI a file with his name grows daily. But of Carrasco, noy even his shodows. He simply evaporated.

There is a 10,000 dollars reward for his arrest.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:36:13 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Zen
Subject: IMPORTANTE
Message:
Escriba en Ingles, por favor. Gracias.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:23:35 (GMT)
From: Zen
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: IMPORTANTE
Message:
My english is bad!! The 'important' message that I put here sent it to Elan vital. Jejejejeeje
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:43:36 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Zen
Subject: Intiendo
Message:
Intiendo. Mi espanol es my mal.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:44:45 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Zen
Subject: oops
Message:
MUY mal, not my mal--sheesh
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:26:41 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Ex-premies
Subject: IMPORTANT
Message:
It is written in Spanish. Maybe
Babelfish
can help.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:25:50 (GMT)
From: Zen
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: IMPORTANT
Message:
Thanks, John T.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:30:29 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: The first part says .....
Message:
Traduzcánlo to the English, since mine he is very bad. It knows somebody this subject? Clica aquí.Sobre Maharaji the URUGUAYAN THAT ROBBED IN the U.S.A. and ELUDED the WALL Of FBI WAS MEMBER OF the SECT ' LUZ DIVINÁ Someday Literature will take care of Ricardo Carrasco. So far we know fragments the life of this Uruguayan of 42 years, ex- banking employee, ex- member of the sect Divine Light and ex- pelilargo that the past 19 of February left planted to the directory in plenary session of the BankBoston in New York and disappeared with 66 million dollars in the pocket. In the offices of FBI a folder with its engrosa last name to newspaper. But of Carrasco, nor the shade. Simply one disappeared. The friends do not get tired to send loas to Ricardo Carrasco. They remember it like a boy elegant, of impeccable suits, good for speaking, cheers, sociable, intelligent and ' very capable to handle genté. He was, in fact, an used intachable of the BankBoston between 1977 and the 19 of February of this year when one declared fugitive and ringleader to him of one of the mayores frauds of the century. Nine years were enough to Carrasco to develop in Uruguay a meteoric banking race and to obtain the confidence of their superior ones. It counted for it with one recognized avidity to learn on banking proceedings and the faculty that grants the fluid handling of four languages: Spanish, English, French and Portuguese. He had entered the institution in 1977, and nine years later he was transferred to New York, where one took care like Head of Agency. Something changed in its brain then. In September of 1994 it began to execute a maneuver that today has perplex to industralists and investigators: it granted credits of until a million dollars to the Argentine industralist Oldemar Carlos Barreiro Laborda, of 49 years, known like ' Kukí and ' Count Montenuovó, until totalizing a global turn of 66 million dollars. Then it disappeared. This was the 19 of February, today ago 78 days. Meditating with the gurú Maharaji In an old large house of End Carts the employee Ricardo Carrasco and several tens d
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:26:05 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A premie robbed 66 millones of dollares
Message:
and that is an article explaining how the premie, Ricardo Carrasco,who is at large, did it. The premie was spotted last, not long a go in California...Giving money to his Lord?

Elan Vital received same article, right Zen?

I tell you more later: Going to work now.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:32:01 (GMT)
From: Zen
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: A premie robbed 66 millones of dollares
Message:
Yes. Elan Vital received article.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 13:14:53 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I don't get the message. SB? Any idea?
Message:
I'd say that this website has been set up by some Uruguayen ex .....

But then, why offer devotional music to download?

Does it suggest that the guy who left with the $ 66 millions was/is a devotee, and maybe offered this as a gift to his Lord?

I don't get this guy's humor ......

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 20:32:15 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: In the post bellow Zen explains...
Message:
that the music doesn't belong to Elan Vital. like i said, is this ex way of attracting premies to get them to read the opposition. An effort. When I have the time we'll translate Zen's original post about the ex-premie who robbed the bank. It's an interesting story about premiland.

SB

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:35:06 (GMT)
From: Zen
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I don't get the message. SB? Any idea?
Message:
why offer devotional music to download?
Not is of Elan vital, Right?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:06:32 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I don't get the message. SB? Any idea?
Message:
The idea is to put the premie's name here, the robber,as so, to avoid a mistake and have some of that money going to maharaji. The premie have desappeared. That article I think is from an uruguayan newspaper.

chau,

The lemon miracle openenrs are coming, JM. Soon. How many did you say you want?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:10:05 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: The lemon openers (coded message)
Message:
Finally !

You know, with all that's going on these days and the new developpements ..... I guess we'll need some more!

I'll email you about it!

haha, I guess security and rawat's attorneys will have a hard time with that one !!!!!!! ROFL.....

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:15:07 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: The lemon openers (coded message)
Message:
It's so hard to use this media to communicate quick with all and avoid 'sharing' with the enemy, but codes work, right?

I sincerely love it!!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:00:36 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I don't get the message. SB? Any idea?
Message:
Yes, I have an idea. Zen is an ex and I will talk with him to see if he can translate it because I'm leaving to work, shortly. I can tell you generally about it. Carrasco is a premie and an investigation shows that he planned for several years to make a scam og 66 millons of dollars, and succeded.

I think is a good idea translating the whole thing. Somebody may know this premie and he can be turned in. He was spoyyed last in california.

Zen is an ex and I exchange emails with him. He has translated pages for the spanish forum. To attract premies to read the forums he made these pages and one, he offers devotional music. I don't know much more, I have been extra busy trying to survive... Tell you more later, but I think Zen will come back. He's busy too! Strange.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 10:30:46 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Zen
Subject: Is this a new premie site?
Message:
Here is the main page
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:55:46 (GMT)
From: Zen
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Is this a new premie site?
Message:
Excuse my english, please. Not, be a place against M! ! ! ! ! Of agreement? ; -)
Greetings to all
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:46:58 (GMT)
From: paul bunyeon
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: no, butt dis is
Message:
a new lovers sight.
roflmao
jim heller
where's the jpeg of you on a horse?
we're waiting..
as in ting
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:30:07 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Uh oh! Calling Annie Sosman
Message:
This is yet another repost of a comment I 'fedback' to EV.

In one of your FAQ's you finally settle the question:

Did Maharaji ever say he was God?

No, Maharaji never at any time claimed to be God. As an Indian national, when Maharaji first started teaching in the west when he was 13 years old, he used many examples from eastern traditions which demonstrated that a student seeking fulfillment could do so by choosing to follow the teachings of a guru or master. As he matured he realized that western traditions put a very different emphasis on the idea of guru and wrongly attributed messianic labels in this process. He changed his language to use the term master only and gradually removed all Indian associations from his teaching, as this is not a path just for Indians but is something that is available for anyone regardless of color, religion or race. It is acknowledged that many people at the time were already looking for a messianic type figure. That Maharaji was not such a figure disappointed some people.

(emphasis added and a few superfluous and painful-to-read quotes of Maharaji eliminated)

I'm glad you said as much because, as you might know, there are many premies who, to this day, think the exact opposite. For example, here's a June 20, 2000 post to the ex-premie forum from Annie Sosman, a long-time VOLUNTEER:

i don't remember exactly the peace bomb satsang,
but i will try to answer your question anyhow,
and tell you what i not only probably believe,
i'll tell you what i do believe, at least at
the present time.
i do believe maharaji IS lord of the universe.
every bit as much as the first day i saw his picture
and heard the news. it was at the art college in
nova scotia in 1971. prince of peace, it said.

i don't know what lord of the universe means except
i believe it's important, and worth my attention.

(emphasis added and a whole lot of new-age polyanna drivel eliminated.)

Now, I recall when a thousand flowers bloomed and premies were once, for one short season, allowed to discuss Maharaji on the internet. I'm referring to the site and forum run by Harlan Cooley a couple of years ago. When premies began to debate these questions ('Is Maharaji God?' 'Did he ever SAY he was?'), Harlan's assistant, Mili, shut down the discussion and you, Ev, soon shut down the site. Remember?

So what about poor Annie, huh? I lived with her in the ashram back in the seventies. To this day this woman is apparently living under some SERIOUS misconceptions which, I'm afraid, in all likelihood, are having some extremely deliterious effects on her life. Some one needs to get this FAQ to her and get it to her now. Would you like her email? Do you think there are any more Annie's out there? Do you care?

Jim Heller

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 07:56:17 (GMT)
From: Shintaro
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Uh oh! Calling Annie Sosman
Message:
Doesn't this suggests that EV isn't a cult.
That some of its members think M is Lord of the Universe and others do not.
The freedom of choice to believe what they want.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:08:03 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shintaro
Subject: Not really, Shintaro
Message:
Shintaro,

Is that the way you really think it should work, here's Maharaji and you can believe whatever you want about him? Shouldn't Maharaji just put his cards on the table about who he is, and you believe or disbelieve him according to that?

People aren't whatever you want them to be. There's a reality about them. What's Maharaji's?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:26:17 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shintaro
Subject: *** EXTRA! EXTRA! REALLY DUMB PREMIE POST***
Message:
This is a collector's item.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:20:59 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Shintaro
Subject: If it wasn't harmful, that is...
Message:
BUT IT IS!!!!

MAHARAJI HAS TO GO!!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:41:12 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: Maybe Maharaji can stay
Message:
M can stay only after he pays his debts for what he did. Only after Elan Vital stops spinning lies and starts paying taxes. I wonder how much M pays a year in taxes? Hard to track cash you know. Fact is, M is dangerous. Has done and given his 'blessing' to many many bad things. Time for him to be held accountable! After all the cigarette companies didn't get away with it-why should he? I envision a Federal Penitentiary when I see the light brighter than a thousand suns! For him and all his lackeys at Elan Vital!
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:54:14 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: More 'feedback' to EV (trading in the obvious)
Message:
More comments on your FAQs. I think I'll keep tossing these at you. Maybe, just maybe, one of them will elicit a reply for a change.

One of your new FAQs addresses the issue:

Why should anyone want a master?

It is most common for people who want to learn anything to seek the help of someone who has a degree of mastery in the desired field of knowledge. For example, in the areas of arts, sports, academia, and crafts all have their 'masters'. Many people who have been exposed to Maharaji and benefited from his teachings recognize his mastery of the subject he speaks about as well as his ability to teach it to others. For any person who is eagerly interested in learning about Knowledge and its practice, it is therefore quite natural to seek his help as a master of the subject.

I see a very serious flaw in this argument. Simply put it is that in all the other fields you mentioned -- the arts, sports, academia or crafts -- a 'master' is recognized for his skill or expertise outside his following. You know, you don't have to be a student of Picasso to acknowledge that he's a gifted artist. And, whether one agrees with him on various issues or not, any legal scholar will acknowledge that Robert Bork, the controversial and failed one-time Supreme Court nominee, is indeed an expert in Constitional law. Right?

But who beyond his own followers claims with any proof or credibility that Maharaji is a 'master' of anything? No one I'm aware of. See the problem? If Maharaji's only 'proof' that he's somehow a 'master' lies in the testimonial support of his followers, all of whom have been heavily inculcated in the Elan Vital culture of 'Appreciation and Gratitude' -- as exhibited even here in your very explanation! -- that's not proof of anything beyond his ability to make his canaries sing.

What do you say? Come on, people, let's talk!

Jim Heller

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:22:37 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A FAQ too far
Message:
I've finally read the whole FAQ and it is an insult against all devotees of the Living Lord who gave their lives to him. This FAQ is going to make people very angry. Maharaji, you are playing a dangerous game thinking that you can get away with this.

This is not a threat but it is a warning. You are pushing your ex-devotees too far. You are going to get back more than you bargained for from this. You dare to come to the West and walk all over thousands of sincere and good hearted people and insult them in this way.

Oh boy, at the very least, you are going to regret you ever toyed with the hearts and minds of sincere, open people. At the very worst, you are manufacturing your own destruction. Give up this game, Maharaji. It is far more dangerous than you realise.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:46:38 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Steady on old chap!!!
Message:
Keep in mind that Messrs Sue, Grabbit & Run, Attorneys to the Living Lord are probably reading these pages now. We don't want to give them an excuse to have a go at EPO service providers a la House of Drek.

Maybe I've been reading too many of Katie's posts (just kidding luvvie!) but that little outpouring is bordering on the ill-advised.

Just my 5 cents worth, I'm sure if the FA's think fit they'll erase it.

What do you think Jim?

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 01:54:54 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Steady on old chap!!! - Bollocks
Message:
Read my post again. There is nothing wrong with the post. There is no reason to delete it. I'm just telling it like it is.
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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 03:53:35 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Steady on old chap!!! - Bollocks
Message:
I agree with you on this one Sir D.

Good shot! (And the ball is definitely in bounds.)

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 03:10:32 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: I'd say it's a line shot (nt)
Message:
nnnnnn
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 05:07:29 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Sports term? Ya lost me! Oh well:) NT
Message:
duh
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:33:45 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: You know, on the line... close call..(nt)
Message:
gggg
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:43:01 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Time to dust off the ole contingency plan?
Message:
I mentioned a couple of years ago when I made my dead on correct prediction about Mahagoober coming onto the Internet in a big way (toot, toot) that I had an idea to oppose this. If you do a search on 'Maharaji' now, on most search engines (Yahoo is an exception) you will be buried in Pro sites. Maybe after a hundred hits or so you catch the vaguest glimmer of an Anti site.

Now this pisses me off, it's not right and we should do something about it. My idea then, and I think it is still viable now, was to make up a cookie cutter page which everyone could customize with their own journey or whatever and start getting some presence on the web to counter this overwhelming and growing gooberism.

My HTML skills are limited but I could do if I wasn't ''the laziest mortal on the face of the Earth'' (TM, copyright Al Lyng circa 1965.) Anybody up for it? Or do I have to break away from well ingrained and long standing habits? (which have served me fairly well, I might add.)

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:45:10 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: gerry
Subject: Time to dust off the ole contingency plan?
Message:
What's a cookie cutter page? I already have pages which I'm submitting to some search engines and they have meta tags in them which go well with the search engines. My site which got nuked by Maharaji the last time, got up to number 50 in the 'maharaji' index on Altavista before Elan Vital spotted it and got Geocities to take it down because it wasn't 'nice'. Well the URL was gotohellmaharaji. It didn't require much search engine URL submission to get to number 50.

The way to get more presence is for more people to submit pages, preferably of their own sites, which are easy to build on free web hosts such as Geocities, Tripod etc. Just a single page is enough so song as it has the correct meta tags in place and is submitted to search engines, especially AltaVista which is the most used. I could make a template page which people could add their own text to.

At present, ex-premie.org is number ten in the AltaVista 'maharaji' index. Drek, myself, Jean-Michel and ex-premie.org all submit our sites to search engines. But more is needed, that's for sure.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 20:16:29 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Sir Dave, please...
Message:
I want help doing a page. I'll email you my email address... I want to tell my story as a aspirant contact and have many letters that require attention, if you know what I mean. It's kind like, between 'teeth' and 'lemons': hehehehe...

Thanks.

SB

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 12:21:34 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: SB
Subject: Sir Dave, please... - Yes, please do
Message:
Please go ahead with that. My email address is on this post's headers.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:17:04 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Time to dust off the ole contingency plan?
Message:
Dave, what I mean by ''cookie cutter'' is a page with the html code all worked out which people could copy and insert their own story, perhaps change colors etc add their own links if desired and put it up on a free server. Nothing too controversial so that it would not get removed, but enough to tell the truth. If several people did this, we could counter the Speaker more effectively.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 20:24:43 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: OT: A question
Message:
gerry, Gerry and gErY are the same person?

Thanks.

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 15:12:41 (GMT)
From: gerry gErRy Gerry
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Well, yes, um, kinda, but not really, if you know
Message:
what I mean.

MPD

It's really not THAT bad. I kinda like it, actually...

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:39:23 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Time to dust off the ole contingency plan?
Message:
Gerry,
I vote that you at least TRY to do it :), even if you are the laziest mortal on the face of the earth. Ya never know when that HTML stuff might come in handy, like if you want to get a job someday or whatever. It's a mystery to most people.

Luckily for us, EV has pointed out to everyone that there are anti-Maharaji sites (snicker!)

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:20:17 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Katie yer scarin' me...
Message:

jjjjob ?????

Well OK, I'll do it. The page that is, not the job ;-)

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:26:23 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Sorry, Ger!
Message:
should have said 'very occassional free-lance work' (snicker).

Actually *I* have to go to work now, so see ya.

P.S. Check with Sir David about meta tags and page submission.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:12:44 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Great idea!!!!
Message:
I don't know how to do that but what a great idea that is. Sounds time consuming. Bet there is a program out there that would do it for you.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:35:14 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Is it just me?
Message:
I've been trying to reach Terry Lyn-Lang (Yin Yang? -- sp?), the PR VOLUNTEER at Elan Vital for days now. The number at the bottom of the new 'press kit' is (818) 889-1193. I can't get live people, only voice mail. I leave messages like the one today:

Hi Terry. Jim Heller again. I've been trying to reach you for a few days now to discuss the new PR kit and FAQs posted on EV's site but I only get your voice mail. No one's returned my calls yet. When can I expect to hear from you?

I take it that all the rest of you are having no trouble getting through. Is it something I said? I'm really worried about this because, people person that I am, I'd hate to think I've put anybody off.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 03:29:16 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Terry Yingling, is her name...
Message:
She haven't responded my email either!!
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 18:50:36 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Terry Yingling
Message:
I just wanted to say that I remember Terry Yingling, originally from Providence, Rhode Island. I remember her as a very nice person, actually very sweet, and with a great sense of humor. I remember in the early 80s, she had the 'service' of traveling with the Initiator, David Smith, someone we all recall with great love and affection. She used to complain to me about what an arrogant tyrant Mr. Smith was. So, Terry really put in her dues and deserves whatever exaulted position she has in Elan Vital.

Seriously, Terry, like many other premies, are really great people. That's what makes her continued involvement in Elan Vital, especially in an area in which Elan Vital is engaging in blatant lies and spin, so sad.

And really, as many of the rest of the ex-premies have said, many of us don't really give a shit about Maharaji and what he does, or how he lives. The important thing is to give premies the opportunity to hear the other side of the story, to give them a place to talk with people who express the same doubts they have, to provide them support, and to provide information they will NEVER get from either Maharaji or Elan Vital.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 19:18:51 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Terry Yingling
Message:
I never met Terry in person, but I talked with her on the phone many times and I agree with you; she is a nice caring person.

The STRANGE evilish things PAMs (premies around Maharaji) do to please 'their Lord' is what I have a problem with, more, because Maharaji is accountable for what they believe! HE IS THE LIVING LORD TO THEM. I realize all of them don't have a clue in what they are involved or WHAT they are supporting, MAINLY, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT BRAINWASHING IS ABOUT...but something have to stop them and make them realize they must begin to use logic. Maharaji has to go!!!

I heard her ideas about David Smith too, similar to yours. We are all a disfunctional family, after all...hehehehe...
PAMs need to begin to take seriously our voices. As I said to Terry in a email they need to get better; they are making too many mistakes and that is making people pissed! well, not totally. It's fun to see M once more make a fool of himself. The false little god...

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 20:16:31 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Terry Yingling
Message:
So, what does Terry have to say? What does she have to say about Smith, and if her opinion is that he is a sadistic, mindless, robot, what does she think about the fact that Maharaji still utilizes him as one of the big wigs within Elan Vital?

Have you talked to her generally about the greviences that lots of ex-premies have with their former master? Does she have an opinion on any of them?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:05:59 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Terry Yingling
Message:
I'm just a new person: I have stopped being afraid of them...

About our grievances, I'm working on a letter to address the lies posted on Elan Vital's site; www.elanvital.org, at the bottom of the front page, on Q&A since it felt like the ultimate abuse: I didn't try enough? I sent Terry a short email the day Jim brought us the news and she haven't asnwered YET. This is what I wrote to her:

Terry yingling,

The party just started, right? What a mistake...why didn't you ask me for advice? I'm not in my mind!!! LOL. I'm clear as clean water!!

Bullshit, fucking smelly bullshit and tell Rawat to get creative because the best is yet to come!!

Rumors are that you all are a bunch of fakees and rumors say you have forgotten you have left a paper trail behind, and cassetttes, Divine Times, Darshan in Australia, Taped phone conferences, secret letters? Is it true? I'm scared!!

Boleishitsatgurudevmaharashkishit!! Recorcholis Robin...and now what? The media?

That was my email...I was a little 'blissed' at that moment!

What she thinks about Smith? I was explaining one time to Terry on the phone that David Smith yelled at me on the phone and told me to shut up and that I didn't like him. I would lie to you if I remember word by word about what she said since it happens few years a go, but was something to point the fact that many people dislike him for being 'so, so tight' and rude. Yes, she is a peace keeper, that is why few months a go she began to do PR more, I guess, because of her patience with people. I refused to talk with Smith and she would pass messages to him. She would look 'for the right time' to talk to him. He is a very abusive person with a 'nice guy' custome. I can't stand him, the sicky...

David Smith is Maharaji's link with the PAMs, right? They are all so strange!! Who knows. I'll tell you more if I remember. I'm still looking for stuff, notes I have someplace.

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 00:15:27 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Terry Yingling
Message:
Yeah, David Smith is abusive all right. He is just about the most hated person in Elan Vital. You would think Maharaji would get rid of him, for PR reasons if for nothing else.

I guess Terry hasn't changed her views on David Smith since I knew her. She thought he was really nuts then, and I guess that hasn't changed.

Why was David Smith yelling at you and being abusive? Did you do something he didn't like?

Did I ever tell you about the time David Smith went through the clothes of the ashram premies and threw/gave away clothes if he thought they weren't 'monastic' enough? He also used to keep notes on all the ashram premies and evaluate the level of their dedication. He is one very sick guy.

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 02:19:29 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Terry Yingling
Message:
What else??? I love to learn those little secrets, maybe he comes and reads our posts and recognizes how wrong he was... Dreams, u know...

My problem with him got generated because some premies around here asked for my help to get raid of a naughsty premie who in a tyrant way was dominating and controling the community. I contacted Elan Vital asking for advice and that is why one time I talked on the phone with Smith who began to scream: Listen to me, shut up, etc.!! I began to scream louder and...He wanted that person to continue on the position and I said, NO WAY!! My argument was that he didn't live here and he didn't have a say. Only when I threaten him with writting big Lard is that he talked to that premie and she had to step down...He liked her because she was a good generous contributor and I wasn't? BS!
If I knew some of the stories I heard about David Smith were true for sure I will post them here; they are weird to say the least. He needs new underwares I bet still. He is a true servant, u know... No life of his own beside Maharaji. Pathetic!!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:50:18 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: No, Jim, it's not about you
Message:
I can't believe all the stupid idiots who talk to you! It's like being some kind of crook and CBS Television's 60 Minutes shows up ringing the doorbell and they let them in.

But, Jim, if you really want to make a call how about making one for me?

[* Further content removed by Forum Admin *]

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:36:57 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: I just left him a voice mail
Message:
See, Rog, even he doesn't want to talk to me! I left a voice mail saying I understood someone from his office was poking around on a web site satirizing the former child guru, Maharaji, called 'Drek's House of Maharaji' and that I was curious what interest, if any, he or his office would have in these matters. I left my email and phone number. Anything else?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:41:22 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey, I think that guy is an EX!
Message:
I can't give specifics, but I wish you guys wouldn't have done this! Sheesh!
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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 03:01:54 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Hey, I think that guy is an EX!
Message:
There WAS a black military man who was from Bethesda Md and I think he is an ex. It might be him.
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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 13:58:48 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Hey, I think that guy is an EX!
Message:
No, Bill, don't think so. Read my post about living in DC below.

P.S. I said this before, but I knew a few people who worked at Defense Mapping, and they weren't military people, or premies. They were soil scientists. It's just a job!

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Date: Sat, Jul 08, 2000 at 11:36:15 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Hey, I think that guy is an EX!
Message:
Hi Katie, Your right. And it was Reggie I was thinking of.
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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 11:11:19 (GMT)
From: JtF
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Hey, I think that guy is an EX!/No, not Reggie(nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:05:09 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Shit!
Message:
Really, to tell you the truth, I hate all this kind of net Spy-vs-Spy stuff. Turns out to be wrong and a big waste of time usually anyway.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:14:32 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Shit!
Message:
Yeah, the guy was probably just reading the 'Red Nighty' or something. I feel kind of bad about this, honestly, and would like to apologize to this person.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:24:11 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Shit!
Message:
Katie,

I understand and all but why would you like to apologize? What did you do wrong? We're not falling into an empathy trance, are we? :)

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:28:32 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Shit!
Message:
Because I think I know the guy, and he just found the sites.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:35:43 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Shit!
Message:
No, I agree. Why should someone get a voicemail just because they looked at a web page? In retrospect I'm sure Roger will agree that this was a mistake. Again, that's why I HATE all that Spy-v-Spy shit! Fortunately, the message I left him was on his own private voice mail. But this is a drag, I agree.

Roger?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:40:45 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Can't you call him and leave another message
Message:
explaining it was a mistake?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:45:51 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Yeah, I was thinking of that
Message:
I just did.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 13:24:59 (GMT)
From: PCH
Email: None
To: Jim, Roger and...Kathy
Subject: hypocrites...
Message:
so...it is ok for an EX to use 'tax-payer money' and surf the web but if you are suspected to be a premie, your employer gets a call just because you clicked on Drek's web site...what you just did is very ugly and disgusting indeed. NOTHING justifies this.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 13:50:55 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: PCH
Subject: hypocrites...
Message:
I don't think ANYONE'S employer should get a call because the person looked at a web site! Anyway, it won't happen on this forum or on ex-premie.org. I hope Roger will change his policy too.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:01:12 (GMT)
From: PCH
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: hypocrites...
Message:
How do you know? would there have been any protest if that DC lurker would have been anyone other that a known EX? I did not read any post complaining about Jim calling...By the way, it DID happen on this forum, since everything was posted here and the FA did F...A.. about it.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:24:38 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: PCH
Subject: You're absolutely right
Message:
It WAS wrong to call the guy. It WAS overzealous to post that info. I DID apologize to the guy and yes, it probably WAS hypocritical to comment, as Roger did, about this guy probably posting from work. You're completely right, Roger would likely have never mentioned it if he thought the guy was an ex.

Ok, satisfied? We're human. We make mistakes. Roger's got every reason to be a little cautious about his site these days, given all the efforts your cult leader's making to shut it down. Does that justify his posting that 'WHOIS' stuff or me calling the guy? No. For my part, I wasn't thing. For Roger's, well I can't say. He can answer for himself.

Now what about all the other issues of the day, premie ji? What about your cult's evasive pack of lies under its new Famous Avoided Questions section? Or does that not interest you?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:12:47 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: PCH
Subject: I did complain!
Message:
Rob and Gerry were talking about it below, and I protested. By the way, I also just spoke to the FA about it too. But if you read a post you think should be deleted because it gives personal information about someone, speak up! The FA's can't read all the posts all the time - please say something.

What I was saying about the forum and ex-premie.org means that the policy in both those places is NEVER to out someone who posts or reads on either the site or the forum sites. No matter if they're a premie, ex, or whatever.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:22:16 (GMT)
From: PCH
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: I did complain!
Message:
Katie,
i do not doubt YOUR sincerity about this issue and you have taken a stand on this many times. What bothers me is that the SAME people keep doing the SAME thing (posting phone numbers, names) and nothing changes.
Some people on this forum strongly believe that people should not post anonymously and they don't mind 'outing' people even if it is a shot in the dark.
If such action is not endorsed by the FA there should be a penalty for doing such actions (banning for 2 weeks, whatever)

By the way, another confidentiality breach: [somebody] has been identified as one of the FA by [somebody else]...

[edited by Forum Admin]

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 22:07:57 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: PCH
Subject: Listen to this prick!
Message:
Unbelievable!

You're British, aren't you? You got that peculiar anal retentive tone very characteristic of Limeys.

First you suck up to Katie then start pontificating about what YOU don't like and what YOU think should be the penalties blah blah, then you end with a little tattle-tale about Anth & J-M.

What do you think, this is White's Gentleman's Club or something? This is a forum for the primary benefit of people who have escaped from or who have doubts about Rawat's Cult. Premies have been given the privelege of posting because a) Many are on the verge of dumping their allegiance & this site can help them make that final leap, b) You remind us how stupid & brainwashed cult members are, c) You provide occasional comic relief and bloodsport.

YOU don't have voting rights. YOU are here on sufferance. YOU can fuck off if you don't like it.

The post Katie referred to was one in which I suggested forwarding premie posts to the EV Feedback email, with ISP and real names where known. My point was to challenge premies with a simple question. Here it is, see what you can come up with:

Dear Premies:

Are you proud of the way you are representing your Lord and Master here, and how do you think he would feel if he knew who you were and what posts you had written?

Have you considered sending a summary of your involvement here to ELK Expressions? Why not? Surely you are doing His bidding and aiming only to serve Him? Do your premie friends know you are here? Does your wife/husband?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 19:00:30 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: PCH
Subject: I did complain!
Message:
Well, I will e-mail the FA's to discuss this subject. It's very important to me that people feel that when they post here, they won't get outed in some way (in this, I am excluding the people who post under many different pseudonyms, however - that is just plain annoying, and they oughta be blocked IMHO). I urge you to e-mail the FA's with your opinion as well - just try and remember that they do this in their spare time as volunteer work!

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 00:19:38 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: benlurken@aol.com
To: Katie
Subject: I did complain!
Message:
Katie,
Posting the result of a whois query is not exactly privleged information, its available to anyone with internet access which is why I never used my real name/address as I didn't want someone to find out who I was and its why I complained when ip address were posted for a short while. Calling the admin of the site is okay for Roger to ask about. I have people dumping stuff on my anonymous ftp incoming directory all the time. I log them and if it happens again I block them. If anyone really messed with us we would contact the isp. my 2cents worth
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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 14:05:13 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: IPs and whois
Message:
Hi Ben -
A couple of points - you cannot get ahold of someone's IP and do a who-is unless you run a site (or unless the person posts on Paradise - ha ha!). Roger's site is presumably open to the public, so people looking at it shouldn't have to be 'exposed'. I think that was all that was happening.

I agree with your point about someone mssing with or trying to hack your site (that's happened at ex-premie.org), but still don't think the persons IP/whois belongs on the Forum. And I do not think that is what this person was trying to do.

I don't think anyone should be afraid to READ any of the ex-premie websites, thus my protest.

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:35:43 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: PCH
Subject: Who the fuck are you to say anything?
Message:
Get your own forum, premie ji. Ha, that's a laugh! No, you've got no say in anything that happens here. None. Now fuck off.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:19:55 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: PCH
Subject: So if this thread disappears
Message:
you'll know why.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 20:45:52 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Katie
Subject: And if I disappear...
Message:
Yes, I've done it again!

My infamy, my incompetence, my impuetuouness and my impetigo, all of it, preceeds me!

All apologies...

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:23:43 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: And if I disappear...
Message:
Everyone here has made mistakes. You should have seen a doosey I pulled once--ouch!
I am a terrible speller and if that weren't enough, today I smashed my finger in the car door--what a klutz.
Feel better?

VP
P.S. For what it's worth, with every thing that has happened with your website, I can't blame you for being a bit paranoid. You could always call the guy and leave a message if you feel badly about what happened.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:14:21 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Oh Roger...
Message:
Just try being a little less suspicious next time!

Take care -
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:57:32 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Katie
Subject: Just because they aren't following me...
Message:
doesn't mean I'm not paranoid

Trying to take care, but not really succeeding at it

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 18:12:04 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Take care now, Rog ;)
Message:
and just because we're paranoid - it don't mean they ain't out to get us ...

(something like that)

And about this complementary close: 'take care' -

I know people usually mean well when they say it, but ... but ... to the paranoid (and I DO mean me - but only occasionally y'understand?) it can be ... woooo, trip me out with a mind-fuck ...

BTW, Rog, is it true that you and Barney the Dinosaur who used to post here are one and the same?



Take care now ...
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Date: Sat, Jul 08, 2000 at 00:48:30 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: cq
Subject: barney got eaten up way bad
Message:
barney died awhile back after being ravaged by cannibals
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Date: Sat, Jul 08, 2000 at 15:02:35 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: By cannibals? Really? (burp) --------------(nt)
Message:
By cannibals? Really? (burp) (nt)
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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 14:10:57 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Just because they aren't following me...
Message:
Well, I haven't seen any black helicopters over my house yet (even when JM and SB were here for the summit meeting)! If things get bad, we can always send you Robyn's teeth to protect you (snicker).

I am glad your site is back on line, BTW. Even some of the premies seem to like it (or said so in their testimonials).

TC -
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 22:04:41 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Hi Roger!!
Message:
I hope you are doing well!

Love,

SB

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:40:38 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Life in the DC area
Message:
IMHO, Roger needs to move to DC for a while, where lots of ordinary people work for the CIA, FBI, Defense Mapping, the Pentagon, etc. Definitely helps to defuse government conspiracy thinking.

Katie
(born inside the Beltway)

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:51:19 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: yeah, get me a cup of coffee! (nt)
Message:
;lkj
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:53:03 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Hey, that's sexist! (nt)
Message:
tttttt
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:25:35 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Love, on the lighter side
Message:
Is it just me or has this been a particularly intense day on the forum? Anyway it's hard to feel too bad with a warm kitty sleeping in you arms (makes it tough to type, though.) In that spirit, I tender this for your perusal and consideration:

LONDON (Reuters) - For some people it's palpitations, a sense of euphoria and breathlessness. Others say sweaty palms, light-headedness and a gut feeling are sure signs of being truly, madly, deeply in love.

But scientists at University College London now have more concrete proof of whether or not it's the real thing -- brain scans. They have shown that the first flushes of true love produce visible changes in the brains of people that can be seen with magnetic resonance imaging (MRI).

``We looked at the activity in their brain produced by a picture of the person they love,'' Semir Zeki, a professor of neurobiology, said in a telephone interview Wednesday.

``There are four small areas of the brain in which activity goes up and that increase correlates with their viewing of the picture of the person they are in love with.''

Zeki and his colleague Andreas Bartels gave MRI scans to 16 volunteers who said they were in love. Lie detector tests were also used as an objective means of confirming their feelings.

Each volunteer was shown a picture of their beloved and a photograph of a friend whom they had known for a similar period of time.

Whenever a picture of the loved one was shown it produced chemical changes in the brain that were not active when they were shown pictures of friends. The changes were clear-cut in each volunteer whenever they looked on the image of the one they loved.

``The emotional state is generated by activity in these parts of the brain,'' Zeki explained.

``These parts of the brain are also the parts which are active in euphoric states generated by exogenous substances such as cocaine. Romantic love is to for many people, at any rate, intoxicating.''

The scientists presented their findings at a conference of European neuroscientists and have submitted the research for publication in a peer-review journal.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:43:50 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: To gErRy my gene pool brother-ot
Message:
Chicks are supposed to be able to eat chocolate and it provides the brain with the same type of chemical that is secreted when they are in love--they have to eat a lot of chocolate for this to happen, though. Maybe this explains the big butts over forty at the pool this summer-snicker! (not enough lovin')

There, now maybe some women on the forum can hate me, too--just kidding, girls. I agree with you that it has been an intense week on the forum. Ever since ELK posted it's FAQs, things have been sort of intense 'round here.

The breeze is blowing through the window and I am also snuggling a warm cat. He's fat and feisty and probably won't sit here long. Time to read a new book I just started and then hit the sack.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:54:28 (GMT)
From: Bill W.
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: explains why I've got a coke habit the size of...
Message:
Machu Pichu and haven't been laid in over 6 years
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:00:44 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Bill W.
Subject: Dear, God, Man!
Message:
You haven't been laid for over 6 years? Dear, God, Man,
please tell me you're joking.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:10:35 (GMT)
From: Bill W.
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Things could be worse - the Ashram
Message:
Indeed, I did go for much longer when I lived in Maharaji's ashram, but then I was the only ashram resident to take seriously the vows of chastity.

But I'm finding that massive quantities of Peruvian Marching Powder gives me such a better head rush than s-e-x. And it's much less expensive, too. No complaints other than wanting more and more.

but I might be kidding about all this, thanks for your concern

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:14:47 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Bill W.
Subject: I'm gullible, what can I tell you?
Message:
How'd you make that tiny print? That was cool!
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:48:55 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Elan Vital's Lies Re Pedophilia by Mahatma Jagdeo
Message:
Katie wrote this great post below, responding to the lies put out by Elan Vital regarding its supposed investigation of the sexual molestation of children within its organization. This is important information and needs to be brought up top.

(from elanvital.org FAQ, copyright, 2000, EV)

We are aware that some opposing sites make allegations in particular against one individual concerning events alleged to have happened 25 years ago. This kind of behavior, if true, is completely unacceptable to Elan Vital and we would be as appalled as anyone if this was found to be true. The only information we have comes from postings on these sites. We were able to contact two individuals who made these allegations and asked that they help shed light on what happened but as yet have received no cooperation from them. As it stands Elan Vital has still received no direct information from any of the alleged victims and to date no complaint has been filed with Elan Vital or with any authorities.

This contains at least three erroneous statements:
1. The only information we have comes from postings on these sites.
Not true at all - just read Anthony's letters to Glen Whittaker, plus Susan's testimony. (Of course, EV is good at 'losing' letters, and 'forgetting' what people have said in the past.)

2. We were able to contact two individuals who made these allegations and asked that they help shed light on what happened but as yet have received no cooperation from them.

As far as I know, Susan and Abi have NOT been directly contacted by EV at all! Of course they could be talking about two other victims...

3. to date no complaint has been filed with Elan Vital

Again, read Anthony's correspondence with Glen Whittaker. I am not sure why this does not constitute a complaint in their eyes, nor am I sure why Susan's previous reporting of the incident, or Abi's father's talking about it, didn't constitute a complaint.

Comments on this please. My feeling is that EV should have completely avoided this subject unless they were prepared to tell the truth. And I'd like to know what the premies who post here think about these statements by EV.

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 20:32:06 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Elan Vital's Lies Re Pedophilia by Mahatma Jagdeo
Message:
Thanks for re-capping this here. I have been away from the forum and wasn't sure how I would get caught up. So anyway, thanks.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:32:11 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Elan Vital's Lies Re Pedophilia by Mahatma Jagdeo
Message:
Well, there's no way EV is going to tell the truth. If they told the truth, they'd admit that maharaji is a liar and a fraud.

But you're right they should have kept quiet about the allegations against Jagdeo and just about everything else in that FAQ. It's pretty clear whoever wrote that FAQ is really dumb.

I can see how Anth's letter wouldn't constitute a complaint because he's a third party. But Susan's original complaint is valid in every sense of the word. Naturally, Elan Vital's (formerly DLM) failure to address that complaint at the time it was filed is what resulted in Susan's airing it somewhere else (here).

But it's truly amazing that EV mentioned any of this in their FAQ because just having these allegations, tarnishes them terribly. You'd think if they were going to be corrupt and dishonest that at least they could do it right.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:07:46 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Elan Vital's Lies Re Pedophilia by Mahatma Jagdeo
Message:
EV said:

As it stands Elan Vital has still received no direct information from any of the alleged victims and to date no complaint has been filed with Elan Vital or with any authorities.

Powerman said:

I can see how Anth's letter wouldn't constitute a complaint because he's a third party.

I have to disagree with you P-man.

Anth filed his complaint with police in the UK. A report by a witness to a crime is totally valid.
Perhaps the problem here, is that EV doesn't recognize police in the UK as constituting 'authority'.
Perhaps Anth should have filed his report with the WPC. That, those jerks would have recognized as a complaint to valid and legitimate 'authorities'.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 03:26:03 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Elan Vital's Lies Re Pedophilia by Mahatma Jagdeo
Message:
I stand corrected, Joey. Thanks for pointing that out, as I wasn't aware of it.
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 23:39:54 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Joe
Subject: Elan Vital's Lies Re Pedophilia by Mahatma Jagdeo
Message:
My brief comment: Elan Vital's (Glen Whittaker's) words on this subject have defensive written all through them. These are not the words of a caring and concerned organisation but instead are the words of a very uncaring and defensive organisation.

In simple terms; they are more interested in saving the ass of Maharaji than helping the victims of child abuse. Glen has been in the cult too long. He has forgotten that ordinary people (i.e. not in a cult) can see through this kind of backpeddling and face saving excercise very easily. It is totally transparent that they don't really give a monkey's whether anyone was abused or not but are really only interested in papering over the cracks.

What they should be saying is words to the effect of: Yes we are very concerned about possible cases of child abuse in the past and have gone to great lengths to find the perpetrator and allow his victims to confront him and let justice be done. We are doing our best to help the victims of this abuse.

But that's what a normal, compassionate organisation would put out as a statement. Not a cold and very uncaring cult whose only aim is to feed the insatiable appetite of its leader.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 05:55:13 (GMT)
From: Know it All
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Where does it say Glen wrote this
Message:
Sir Dave,

Where does it say that Glen wrote the FAQ's and the Press Kit?
I must admit it sounds like Glen but I can't see any proof of this.

It's on the U.S. Elan Vital site so I thought the writer would have been from the U.S.

Know it all (being curious)

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 13:26:47 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Bjorn
Subject: Ok Bjorn / Fairplay / Curious... Scram!
Message:
Your use of multi-aliases has been tolerated up till now. Knowingly posting under somebody else's alias is NOT tolerated.

You are no longer welcome on the forum. Bye.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 16:15:46 (GMT)
From: The real Know It ALL
Email: None
To: FA'S!
Subject: IMPOSTER POSTING ABOVE
Message:
FA: The above post was not written by Know It All, as I am certain you can tell by the browser type.

Please do something about this.

KIA

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:34:31 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: The real Know It ALL
Subject: IMPOSTER POSTING ABOVE
Message:
Do you know Glen Whitaker personally?, ie do you know his star sign? and did you respond to my post further down.....if not, perhaps your imposter is none other than the man in question! LE
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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 00:20:53 (GMT)
From: The Real Know It All
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: IMPOSTER POSTING ABOVE
Message:
I do not know Glen Whitaker. I don't know which post below you're referring to, LE. The post above about which I've complained is the only false KIA post I've ever seen before.


KIA

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 04:21:50 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: The Real Know It All
Subject: IMPOSTER POSTING ABOVE
Message:
It's in the inactive index:

http://www.ex-premie.org/forum5/main.cgi?key=0I82

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 15:59:23 (GMT)
From: Real Know It All
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: You're right, LE
Message:
LE: I read the post. You are correct. Bjorn did adopt my alias on another occasion. Since the FA has deleted the offending post above and has told Bjorn he is no longer welcome here, I think that solves the problem.

Thank you for pointing this out to me. I'll email the FA too.

KIA

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 21:05:58 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Real Know It All
Subject: Bjorn
Message:
Who is Bjorn? when I read that post I thought it might have been glen w who wrote it, after all it would have been very tempting to say something when you are the topic of conversation. LE
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 12:53:53 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Know it All
Subject: Where does it say Glen wrote this
Message:
Someone here said that Glen Whittaker wrote it. No proof but it does sound like his style. But the author is not that important since everyone in Elan Vital, including its leader and figurehead, Maharaji, agrees with all of it.
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:54:38 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Abi's Painful Report of Molestation by Jagdeo
Message:
For those who may not have seen it, following is Abi's painful report of the sexual molestation she experienced as a young child in Elan Vital at the hands of Mahatma Jagdeo, one of Maharaji's 'initiators' or 'instructors.' This was posted in August, 1999. Warning: Parts of this letter are very difficult to read.

My parents first got involved with what was then called Divine Light Mission when I was six. We'd just come back from Spain where, in true hippy style, they'd caught hepatitus after trying very hard to impersonate Spanish peasants and live off the land. We moved to Brighton and soon Mum started going to satsang meetings at the local ashram. The first premies I met were happy young souls who seemed kind, played guitar and sang a lot.

Soon we were all going up to London to satsang meetings at the Palace Of Peace. I was entranced by the 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?' film. I thought it was spectacular, that I had entered into a new magical world full of love, peace and kind people. They went off to a festival in Copenhagen and came back very blissed out. By now we had a small alter in the living room.

The night they got back we all had to sit in front of the alter and bow down. They then produced a couple of very crumpled and slightly slimy flowers that had, we were told, come from His garland. We had to eat them. We did.

Things became stranger still. My young brother started lifing His school diner up to his third eye in order to give thanks to Satguru. Just like we did at home of course. But the food always seemed to get caught in his hair. I taught him how to do it without smearing half his diner all over his head. Poor little boy. I'd pray to Guru Maharaj Ji to let me stay home from school. I accepted very quickly that he was the Lord of the Universe. Soon we'd moved to London and were staying in a family ashram.

School consisted of children's satsang and drawing big pictures of Swans and hearts. We all felt very special and free. All I wanted to do was to be a premie, to get knowledge, to spread His Word. I went to as much satsang as possible. Then a large group of us went down to Unity School in Wringford. It was a very beautiful place full of children and young people. We loved the countryside and would wonder about for hours in the woods, across the fields, the cliffs.

I'm not sure where our parents were though. It seemed as though we were just left to our own devices. The sleeping arrangements kept changing. For a while we lived in a chapel which my brothers and I almost burnt down one night while our parents were at satsang. We lived on the cliffs too and would walk to Wringford in all kinds of weather. Most of the adults there were gentle people looking for peace and love. But some of them were very strange. Roland was very violent and had fits in which his eyes would roll into the back of his head. he would scare the women and we ran whenever we saw him.

Anthony was more insidious. he wanted to play games with us All the time but the games always became violent and scary. he'd puch us On the swings until we almost fell off. he'd pick us up and throw us onto the bed until our heads banged against the wall and we cried and ran off.

Once he made me lie down naked and got the boys to line up and fondle me. I remember feeling totally powerless and confused. I wa a tomboy and now all my power had been taken away from me and I had been turned into a strange sexual object at only seven. I somehow realised that it was because I was a girl that this was happening. I wanted them to stop but they pined me down. I was scared of Anthony. Our boundaries got very blurred then.

The relationship between sister and brother was polluted by what he made Us do. Our boundaries and mine especially became even more damaged when Jagdeo stayed at Wringford.

I was deperate for my parents approval and so had put a lot of energy into becoming a perfect little devotee. I thought Mahatma's were semi-divine, enlightened beings who were spreading peace throughout the world. I felt very honoured that he wanted to spend time with us. he invited us all into his special room. He gave us Indian sweets and told us how much he missed his own children in India. He talked to us for a while.

I think they call it 'grooming'. Then he made us all lie down in a Circle on the floor because he was going to play a very special and exciting Game with us all and we had to do what he told us to do. He kept on Repeating that. He asked for our consent and we, of course, gave it to him. He seemed on edge and I became scared. The game was that we had to ask him to lie on top of us in turn. He lay on top of each of us and rubbed his erection on our young and small bodies. Some of us giggled. There were boys in that room too. He started panting and focused on me. I was the oldest child there. I was seven. The youngest was about four. He wanted me to plead with him to lie on top of me. I felt as though everything was unreal. He made me beg him. He started really rubbing himself on me and then he suddenly got up and told the others to leave the room because he wanted to play a special game with me. That I was the best child to play with and the game meant that we had to be alone in the room. He locked the door behind the others. I was so scared that I couldn't move. I wanted
to leave with the others. Hated it when they said goodbye. He was deformed. One of his eyes was a lot bigger than the other.

From that point my memory is very fractured. I can remember Trying to focus on a picture of Gurur MaharaJ Ji which was on the opposite wall.

I pleaded in my mind for protection. I just tried to blott out what Was happening by pretending that Maharaj Ji loved me. I didn't want to look at what was happening to my body so I left my body and dissapeared into the picture. It was the first time I practiced what they call 'depersonalisation'. I can't go back there ever again. This is very hard to do.

After that I was Jagdeo's special friend. My parents were very glad that a holy man was taking such interest in me. He wanted to teach me to play chess. But we never finished a game. I would sweat with fear.

I remember washing my sweating palms once when he let me go to the Bathroom and praying to Guru Maharaj Ji for protection. I looked out of the Window from his room and saw a group of premies on the lawn and I wanted so Much to open the window and scream for help but I had lost all my power. It Was as though I didn't really inhabit my own body anymore. I didn't know Who to tell so I told my brother Ivan because he'd been there when Jagdeo Had played the first game with us all. He tried to tell my mother. In his childish way he said 'Mum, I think Jagdeo fancies Abi'. My mother just laughed and said of course he doesn't and carried on as though nothing had happened. I gave up then. He was a holy man after all. I didn't know what was real.

I became disturbed about going to bed, frightened of nameless things. My body seemed distant, a thing of disgust. I got sick and stared at the curtains in my bedroom the way I'd stared at that photo in Jagdeo's room. I practiced becoming catatonic. I had nightmares which weren't nightmares about a long, hard, smooth object.

Years later I told my father what had happened and he was Outraged and told a lot of premies about it. He even spoke to Charanand. But of course nothing was ever done. They close ranks. They protect their own.

I know this has damaged my life and there are parts of that Event which I don't ever want to remember. It left me with a sense that my Body didn't belong to me. It left me with the ability to utterly shut off reality. To withdraw so far inside myself that nothing external could ever hurt me. I used to think of it as a little room inside myself that I could walk into and shut the door of. There was always a window to look out of though. I could always see out of that room but no one could ever touch me or see me or hear me. Part of sharing this is my attempt to wrench myself out of that room. To inhabit my body again after all these years. To finally undo the damage.

It stands to reason that Jagdeo has done this to many children. I know that he has damaged many other lives satisfying his sick, perverted lust. Who knows what sort of damage he's done. How many young lives have been destroyed. And all in the name of Love.

I just hope that one day he'll be brought to some kind of justice. I hope that someone, somewhere can find him.

Anth: that was very hard to do. I feel pretty exhausted. But it was illuminating too , to put it into words. It made me realise things I hadn't before. That I do need to escape that room.

Must go. Feel pretty shaky.

Thanks for being there for me. call me sometime. The time difference is that you're about eight hours behind.

take care and remeber that you and Dot were by far the very best premies there. We all love you for the care you showed us then.

Abi

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 05:49:33 (GMT)
From: Fairplay
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Abi's Painful Report of Molestation by Jagdeo
Message:
Dear Joe,Joey, J.W.?

I reread this painful report this a.m. I still feel that if one or more of the victims would come forward now something could be done.

Please don't call me twisted for this.

I KNOW it is a very painful thing for these victims to do but if they are reporting this to Anth & the Ex-premie site it would be more straightforward to make a complaint to Elan Vital now that Elan vital IS trying/appearing to be more open and ethical.

I thought this confrontation is what was wanted and needed.

Could you explain how the police are doing more than this at present and why it would be better to let the police handle it?

Fairplay

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:58:41 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Fairplay
Subject: for the last time...
Message:
dear Fairplay -
I don't know how to make you understand this - I have written it over and over again in my posts to you. The incidents WERE reported to Elan Vital - you can read what both Susan and Abi said. They were reported again by Anthony last year. As far as I know, EV has made no effort to contact either Susan or Abi, although they SAY they have. This makes Elan Vital appear either completely inept, irresponsible, or deliberately untruthful (probably all three).

I don't think Elan Vital is appearing to be more open or ethical. If you read what they say in the FAQ, they appear to be trying to convince people that the case is closed because of non-cooperation on the victims' part. This is absolutely not true.

My guess is that EV will only begin to listen when legal pressure is put on them. They have had their chance to 'listen' SEVERAL times, and they blew it.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 13:54:21 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: the letter from EV
Message:
Katie and all:

I responded to my conscience last year and wrote the letter to EV attention Linda Gross about Jagdeo. She told me they have/had no
knowledge of any complaints filed by anyone ever to date.

It is claimed by at least one of the victims who posts here that two trusted people close to Maharaji, Randy Prouty and Judy Osbourne, were made aware of Jagdeo's gross criminal sick behavior. In the letter, EV said that no one has any recollection of any such incidents. They do not say specifically that the two people mentioned were asked about it or not...it is left vague, something like EV has no knowledge of it. Anth has a copy of it.

Personally, I find it extremely hard to believe that both Judy, an experienced and greatly trusted midwife and Randy, a trusted instructor who stood beside Maharaji in darshan on more than one occasion, would have no recollection of even a reported (not to mention confirmed) child molestation at the hands of a mahatma - whether two years ago or twenty-five years ago, especially if it was reported directly to them by the child involved. These two people were given responsibility for helping to bring new life into the world, both spritiual and physical. I cannot conceive that people of such calibre could ever forget such an experience. I also find it disturbing that certian documentation or reports did not have to be filled out or written by the parties who heard the child's story.

Having said this, I maintain the conviction based on my best direct experience that Knowledge is what it is advertised to be.
As for all the rest, I am confident that the truth will always come to light sooner or later. It would be constructive, I think, if everyone listens and pays attention to their own consciences at this time and be true to that.

shp

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:26:16 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: the letter from EV - one question
Message:
Hi Sandy -
Your post was a bit unclear on one point. I am assuming that you believe that Susan spoke to Judy and Randy (I do not know either of them, but I do know Susan and she ALWAYS tells the truth.) And that you believe that they either 'forgot' what she said, or were never even contacted by EV in the first place.

Your post below was very good, by the way - thanks.
Katie

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 11:35:52 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: the letter from EV - one question
Message:
Hi Sandy -
Your post was a bit unclear on one point. I am assuming that you believe that Susan spoke to Judy and Randy (I do not know either of them, but I do know Susan and she ALWAYS tells the truth.) And that you believe that they either 'forgot' what she said, or were never even contacted by EV in the first place.

Your post below was very good, by the way - thanks.
Katie

Katie:
Yes, I believe that Susan spoke to Randy and Judy if she said she did. The EV letter (I don't have it in front of me, but Anth has it) says something like they have no knowledge of any such events. I had mentioned Randy and Judy by name in the letter to EV if I am not mistaken, and EV's answer was something like nobody knows anything about this.

You ask me what I believe. I find it very hard to believe that a midwife and an instructor of a Master Teacher of Knowledge could 'forget' something like a young girl, the daughter of premies, coming up to them and telling them about Jagdeo.

I flat out just don't know what the inner workings are regarding if EV contacted them or not. Bottom line is some pieces are missing in this puzzle, and that's why it doesn't look complete yet.

I do believe Susan. Why? Because when I was reading her story and Abi's, they rang true inside of me. That is the authority I consult and respect as much or more than any other source. If God is real and inside me, then this is the time to pay close attention to what is going on inside, yes? Not just the techniques of K, but also how to live in this world upright day by day. If I can't utilize my connection with God inside to guide on a matter as serious as this, then what good is it?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 11:53:44 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Fairplay
Subject: Abi's Painful Report of Molestation by Jagdeo
Message:
Hi, Fairplay

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that EV is 'appearing to be more open and ethical.'

Appearances can be deceiving, however.

EV is well aware of exactly what is being said here. (Otherwise, why would they have bothered to print the FAQs on their website?) Why should Susan or anyone have to file a complaint with EV? It's all here and Maharaji knows about it--people do service to Maharaji by reading here and reporting back.

If the victims were making unfair accusations, EV would be coming after them.

BTW, Joe is JW. Joey is another poster.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 13:31:04 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Abi's Report-Just one of many abuses
Message:
I had never read that report before today. It makes me sick and sad and is a most blatent illustration of the true nature of Goo-Roo Maharaji and his mission. The fact that he knew of the abuse and chose not to do anything about it is par for the course. After all he raped us ex's in a way by preying on our hearts and continues his fraud to this day. I don't buy the argument that he too is a victim. People have the ability to size up their own actions. You can better believe Abi wasn't the only child to be molested. And I bet This Mahatma wasn't the only molester in the bunch that he brought over from India. If there is anything I can do for this individual who must be in her 30's by now please contact me-netguest42@yahoo.com.
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 21:08:49 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'Feedback' to Elan Vital
Message:
Dear Elan Vital:

It is just so beautiful and you are asking for feedback on your website. I couldn't be more blissed out. I found that I just had to follow my heart and send you some hearfelt comments so you can do your job better. I was a devotee of Maharaji for 10 years from 1973 to 1983, so I have some interest and information to add to the discussion.

In the Elan Vital 'Press Kit' section you have a 'Biography' of Maharaji, formerly known as Guru Maharaj Ji, fomerly known as the 'Perfect Master' and the 'Lord of the Universe,' among other titles. In the opening of the section you state the following:

Of those who decided what he [Maharaji] was offering wasn't for them, most still hold their memory of him in high regard, whilst a minority are openly critical and at times scathing about both the man and his message.

Just how do you know this? Has Elan Vital ever bothered to take a survey of former followers of Maharaji to see what they think about him? How do you know that those who have left Maharaji, which are by far the vast majority of people who have received knowledge, have 'memories' that hold Maharaji in 'high regard?'

Do you have any theories as to why Maharaji has been such a failure at keeping his followers? Is it because of all the 'Hindi problem' or because, like you mention elsewhere, every one of these people simply lacked the 'committment?' Or does this say something about Maharaji's abilities as a 'master?' How do you know what level of committment anyone has or doesn't have?

You also say:

He [Maharaji] says he is an ordinary human being, no different from anybody else, yet his gatherings often trigger a degree of enthusiasm and respect which to a neutral onlooker could justifiably be interpreted as adulation.

Well, it sure could. Actually, it would be intrepted as worship by most 'neutral' people. But this raises a number of questions. If Maharaji says he is an ordinary human being, why has he arranged for his followers to line up by the thousands to file by him and kiss his feet? Is this something an 'ordinary' person does? I know this 'feet kissing' procedure, which used to be called 'darshan' (by the way, what did Maharaji change the name of THAT to, so that all those Hindi traditions were eliminated?), was set up and conducted by Maharaji quite frequently during the 70s and 80s, during the 'dark' Hindi period when everything was so fucked up in his organization, but I know he regularly continues to engage in it in India and as late as 1997 conducted such an event in the West, at an 'event' in Amaroo, Australia. Can you address my confusion about this?

In 1974, when being driven up the Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu, he saw a delapidated structure atop an isolated mountain and it caught his eye. The leaking bungalow built as a weekend retreat by a Hollywood director, was some way off from the celebrated beach-side community. Maharaji was unaware of the kudos of the area, but the beauty of the landscape was breathtaking and gave him a sense of refuge from the very adult responsibilities that he had to face on a daily basis.

Now this is really good. This poor-mouthing of Maharaji's residence in Malibu is astounding. I recall Maharaji's followers doing 'service' at 'the residence' in Malibu in the early 80s and reporting that it was quite a nice structure. In fact, when it was purchased, I recall the Real Estate brochure referred to it as a luxury property called 'the Eagles Nest.' I am told it had had gold plumbing fixtures, as befitting a 'ordinary person,' as did his motorhome and his plane, a Boeing 707 refurbished by his followers, even had a gold toilet for Maharaji to pee in, which I saw myself.

It was a beautiful place residence Maharaji got in 1974 and was not 'delapitated' or at least it wasn't for long. His followers, including me, paid for that house, and later paid so he could purchase additional land around the house. I recall sending money to a P.O. Box in Malibu for that very purpose. In fact, Mishler pointed out that Divine Light Mission, the supposed separate non-profit, actually provided the funds for purchasing 'the residence' in Malibu for Maharaji in 1974.

Moreover, as we know, and as can be see on the ex-premie.org website on which the plans for part of Maharaji's current mansion in Malibu are show, this house, built in 1992, is an entirely new mansion high on the hill in Malibu, complete with swimming pool, multiple garages for the Rolls Royces and other luxury cars that aren't mentioned by Elan Vital, so many bathrooms it's almost impossible to count, and windows that automatically retract into the floors. This is NOT 'the same house.' That is a blatant lie, and nearly every follower of Maharaji knows it is a lie. Also not mentioned is that Maharaji also has 'residences' in England, Australia and India.

Elan Vital should give up on this one. By any measure, Maharaji has become obscenely wealthy from his gig as 'master.' There is no point in pretending that hasn't happened.

Thank you again for this opportunity to provide feedback.

Joe Whalen

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 02:59:36 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: the endless lies of rawat and premies
Message:
when rawat showed the malibu house to his wife, she said 'oh guru maharaj ji it is too much!' and he said 'It is MY world and I give it to you.'

It cost 450,000 dollars way back then and it had plenty of wrap around windows and all the hieght that a meglomaniac godhead could want.

The ones still left with rawat are truely mad.

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 06:36:14 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: the endless lies of rawat and premies
Message:
Thanks, Bill. I seem to recall the $450,000 figure, and as you say, that was in 1974 dollars. Yes, those people at Elan Vital must be nuts.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 18:14:18 (GMT)
From: ex mug
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Eagle's Nest
Message:
Interesting that M's place was called 'Eagles Nest',
wasn't that also the name of Hitler's hillside abode?
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Date: Sat, Jul 08, 2000 at 01:08:25 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: ex mug
Subject: Eagle's Nest
Message:
Yes. Hitler's mountain top retreat was called The Eagle's Nest.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:51:22 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hey Joe, about that gold crapper
Message:
Hey Joe, about that gold crapper ...

was is real gold? like ... solid? ... or just gold-leaf?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 18:35:38 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Hey Joe, about that gold crapper
Message:
I doubt it was 'solid' gold, but it was definitely gold, although I can't say whether it was solid of plated. CHR, who posts here sometimes, had the job of guarding the gold-plated Boeing 707 that Maharaji used (and, according to EV, was actually certified to fly) for awhile, and he said that the FAA inspectors used to joke with them and ask if they had ever taken a piss in the gold toilet. CHR has confirmed that Maharaji's toilet was defintely gold.

I also recall that the plane had lots of gold and leather, etc., and the latest electronic sound system. (I had a guided tour of the plane in 1980.) Also, the shower in Maharaji's bathroom, which had this really thick glass door, had a computerized system whereby it automatically set the water temperature to the temperature most pleasing to the then Perfect Master.

I also knew that Maharaji's motorhome had gold plumbing fixtures.

But, see, as EV says, we shouldn't begrudge Maharaji's 'successful' lifestyle because it has nothing to do with internal peace and Maharaji isn't 'attached' to what he owns. [Can you BELIEVE EV is making that SAME argument as we made in 1973???], I mean, Maharaji says he's just an ordinary person, and he really needs gold plumbing fixtures to help him spread knowledge to the miserable people of this world.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 20:02:06 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hey Joe, about that gold crapper
Message:
What I just DON'T understand Joe, is how EV gives all these supposedly 'straight' answers as to how above-board and legal everything is, but the BIG question that your average punter in the street would be asking is:

if the Maha receives absolutely NO compensation or recompense for all the time and energy he puts into 'spreading the Knowledge' -(which unless I'm very mistaken is what EV is implying) - then why would he bother? At face value - straight up - honest injun - what's in it for him?

WHY DOES HE BOTHER?

(and if any street-wise premie mentions the word 'altruism' - I'm outa here)

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 21:16:49 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Correction
Message:
Just to avoid any misperceptions, I wanted to say that I saw the gold toilet in Maharaji's Boeing 707 plane, which hundreds of his followers, mostly ashram residents, devoted years of their lives to in order to refurbish as a luxury jet, but fortunately, I never saw him actually pee in it.

I also wanted to mention that vigorous fundraising by Elan Vital and its predecessor, Divine Light Mission, was undertaken to purchase and refurbish that Boeing 707 that Maharaji regularly observed and oversaw. Indeed, Elan Vital, and it's predecessor Divine Light Mission, openly lied to the followers of Maharaji and told them the money was going to fund a 'world tour' and the plane was not mentioned. Does this fit into the no-profit purpose of Elan Vital and its predecessor, Divine Light Mission?

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 22:09:47 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Off topic
Message:
Dear Joe,
Just moved and don't have time to read here, don't know why I came actually because I see stuff I want to read but no time. Must be so I'd see you here. :) How was Hawaii? Did you get some good hiking in? Hope you had a great time. Once Jess got over over stimulating Nigel I think things went well in SF. :) She is moving this weekend and whereas my move brings me back to the feelings of the days when I was a kid, has that really fun feeling to it while it is anything but practical for my life, her move is good and in a moving on with her life sort of thing. If there are past lives she was surely my mother in one of them! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 00:17:04 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Off topic
Message:
Hi Robyn:

Yeah Jess and Mel were great dog and housesitters. I guess Nigel did get a bit over-stimulated, but it all worked out okay. I think he got more attention than he was used to, plus I had never been away from him for that long.

Hawaii was great. Two weeks with no phones, TV, work or even newspapers -- and I even did a bunch of scub diving (I got my scuba certification), and I didn't drown, but saw lots of turtles, Moray eels, and even a couple of sharks (the gentle, non-violent kinds of course.)

Jess called me and we talked about the move to Arcata. I think they will like it there. Where are you moving to?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 03:54:39 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: More Off Topic
Message:
Hey Joe:
Welcome back. Sounds like you had a fabuloso time. Great hiking there, n'est-ce pas? Did you do the NaPali trail?

I've been saving this tidbit just for you, as I know you'll REALLY appreciate it: Marc Cooper got the 'Best Broadcaster in L.A.' award from the Los Angeles Press/Radio Association (or something named like that). I imagine that this must make you want to run, not walk, back to Kauai pronto, or at least get back on the Pacifica Board.

My cat's head is on the keyboard (his body is attached to it, don't worry), which makes typing tres difficile, so back to reading I go.

Take care
M

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:48:03 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Hi Monmot
Message:
Yeah, Kauai has the BEST hiking, in lots of different climates and terrain. I did the Na Pali trail, too. We hiked all the way to Kalalau and camped there overnight, then back the next day. Kalalau is the most spectacular valley. You can't even bring a boat into the beach.

But the more spectacular hike was one that goes from Kee Mountain Park down to the upper levels of the Na Pali, a trail called Arawaphui. Next time, I want to kayak the NaPali coast. We saw a group of kayakers from above and they had dolphins jumping over them, and sea turtles swimming by. What a spectacular place!

Marc Cooper -- what can I say? I did hear that he was getting that award, but then, since he is on KPFK something like 15 hours a week ('all-Cooper-all-the-time'), what can you expect? I mean, he must be making lots of inroads in the mainstream LA community by becomming fast friends with people like Arianna Huffington and Pat Buchanan, having them on his show. I heard he was pissed that KPFA dropped RadioNation from its schedule, though. KPFA is a 'Cooper-free-zone.') ::)) Okay with me.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 03:49:08 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Off topic
Message:
Dear Joe,
I know the girls loved Nigel, he is a sweetheart.
I am living in a huge hotel by myself! Out in the middle of nowhere, in the smallest little town, the post office and the hotel ARE the town! Two hours from my job but somehow I still feel good about it. I am working and staying overnight once a week, that is where I am now. No internet at the hotel which is good for now although I do miss everyone but I have a lot to do and would spend to much time at the computer.
Glad you had a good vacation, sounds superb. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 17:50:45 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Off topic
Message:
Robyn,

I'm glad to hear you like your new place. It does sound peaceful, that's for sure. All the best.

Joe

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 15:43:57 (GMT)
From: D_Thomas
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Off topic
Message:
Robyn,

Glad you are moved and settled in. I hope your life will calm down now for awhile. Did you get your modem hooked up at the hotel yet?

Love,
D_Thomas

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:39:00 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: About EV site and Premies reading same
Message:
For the past couple of weeks I have not been able to get to the forum except for the inactives.

That has been frustrating but aslo instructive because it is like getting slightly old news footage. Also I have to listen more and post less!

I dont know if this message will make it to a new thread, but I am floored at Gumanji/EV way of explaining the existance of the forum and how they are protecting their 'rights' and/or worse reputation.

I dont know all of the facts, but I have read that EV/Gumanji has NOT contacted or tried to contact the people involved in molestation.

To say otherwise on the EV site is a sleazy lie.

Premies need to be told this fact and any other holy water wash that he is doing.

Pemies are reading this forum and need to be addressed and informed of the Holi lies that have been published.

I am not in the position to do that because I am in a time warp.

I suggest a bulletin addressed directly to premies that appears regularly of on the forum page. It could be a locked thread with no discussion invited in order to keep the flow of the forum from getting diverted.
Ie; Quotes from his statements on his site cross-referenced with facts as we know them to be.

This is a way for primies to see how the Joker himself sticks his own foot in his mouth by this corporate-speak bunk.

Probably someone has thought of this and done a version of what I am talking about but I think it needs to be a regular automatically inserted headline on the forum - judging by how the premies are acting.
Some are quite smug and are irritating me!

They need to hear the facts and then Malarky will show his colors like any sleazeball does- because he cant help it anymore.

Orbitting Orion with a malfunctioning walkie-talkie
Nanu Nanu '>'
Zelda

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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 20:14:57 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Do premies question these things?
Message:
Do premies ever question sending their friends through the aspirant process? If knowledge is so great, do they ever wonder why they can't just tell friends themselves? Why couldn't a premie just show their friends a video on it? Why couldn't they talk openly about it with new people who are interested? Why all the secrecy?

If knowledge is so wonderful and it's so important that it be spread, why don't they shout it in the streets? Is it really fun to think you have a big secret that makes you spiritually superior to other people? That would make me feel like a jerk. I would want to tell everyone I loved. Isn't there something WRONG with not being able to share something as important as knowledge?

Do premies every wonder why they are not able to take friends without knowledge to certain programs? Why can't people without knowledge watch certain videotapes? Why can't everything be shared with people who want to know or who are interested right from the start? Right up front? Does this ever feel WRONG to premies? Do they ever question this?

Do premies ever feel like something with their lifestyle is not 'right'? Do they hide Maharaji from family, friends, co-workers?

I could go on, but let's just start with these questions for now.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:34:58 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Do premies question these things?
Message:
Hello VP,
I talked with my friend ( aspirant contact here) about the ways the ex-premies generally feel - at everything I said - she said -' Well, that's true -or well, I don't blame them for that.Or yes, there were brainwashing techs on us.'

This was only to tell you that not all premies are the same.There are a few that still practice and love M -but,don't give any money,understand that M is not the greatest teacher, that M has made big mistakes,that Kn is not 'the only way',etc.

I know some here think most premies are 'smug' or something. But, just to tell you, there are plenty that aren't.
Just as not all exes are the same - not all premies are either.

I personally don't feel I can't talk about M or my experience - but when I do - I do it in the context that there is more to this life than their emotional up and downs ( which usually is why we start talking about this stuff)and when I talk about meditation-I suggest they learn it fr someone other than M bec it's so difficult. I suggest books to get them started on figuring out there current problems - whether psychology types - the run of the mill self-help ---or if it's there interest the more spiritual ones out there now.

There are alot of people in such suffering - it's terrible, so I get them started on something other than suicidal thoughts.
M. is the last thing I think to talk to them about.Not because I don't think I can - or that I can't show them a video but, bec there are easier ways to find peace out there.
Bottom line.

I'm not 100% sold that one needs a 'guru' to get to some great place inside. Now that is not the stereotypical statement from a premie.

I don't like sterotypes or pidgeon-holing in any way - it seems to usually not be true for one and usually stops or hinders a person's growth and change ( on both sides!).That's why I responded to your post.

Take care,Elaine

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 03:45:57 (GMT)
From: SB say: Questions?
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: What questions? me,bla, bla, me, me, me....
Message:
Elaine 'talking':

I'm so good.
I'm so compassionate.
I'm so smart.
I'm so good that I cannot talk with the LOW, RUDE SB.
My shit doesn't stink.
I know all.
I believe in karma, no vengance. Next: Lets beat Jagdeo up!
Open communication is good: Shut up SB.

Elaine, thanks for providing for my kind of humor!! Keep it up. It seems you are growing a little, though...:))

I told you: I must have been your daughter in other life, if I believed in that crap... in this one...You are a funny premie. Thanks for your testimonials!! Butter anyone? Those questions were asking for direct answers but what do you know about the concept of DIRECT. zzzzz

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:06:23 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Thanks, Elaine
Message:
I found your post very honest and refreshing. I also wanted to say, that I have also talked to premies who are still involved with Maharaji, but feel the way you do. They no longer think Maharaji is all that special, that other 'paths' are just as good, are kind of embarrassed about what they believed in the past, and they don't tell people about knowledge because they think the Elan Vital/Maharaji aspirant process sucks and they don't want to put anybody through that. So, I know not all premies are alike, and it's great to hear your perspective.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:29:00 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Yes, but Joe
Message:
these premies that 'laugh' at Elan Vital (I know few) are the ones that end up doing their 'own' thing and take new people to Knowledge selections and people still end up receiving Knowledge and in the cult!!!!

What needs to be stopped is the story that is not harmful. Brainwashing ain't good even if you know 'your master' since he was a cute little kid!! PAMs are so quick to justify all the BS to perpetuate their need for him. Longing is a strong word in his world. Why do premies long to be with Maharaji? Because they do!! Without him there is no devotion and THE EXPERIENCE IS TO BECOME A GRISSLY STUPID ROBOT BRAINWASHED DEVOTEE, WORSHIPER OF AN IDOL, MAHARAJI!!

I know many premies who happen to be very good liers. They have giving in 'the devotion trip' and are embarrassed to recognize it openly. I wouldn't be surprised if you tell me that they know you are an ex...that would explain their need to look un-involved to you...

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 23:36:22 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Yes, but Joe
Message:
I agree with you, SB, I just think it's refreshing that a premie actually says things at all critical of Maharaji or the way he does things. Most of the premies who post here, won't do that -- apparently because they are too afraid to. And I also think that if a premie is to the point Elaine is, it probably doesn't take much for them to leave the cult entirely. They are already doubting big time.
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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 02:56:40 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: LOL
Message:
I'm laughing a lot tonight!! hahahaha...

Premies are so fricking funny: NOT!! I just lost it again with Elaine. She writes to an ex and says something about me. She can't 'talk' directly with me: I'm a bad rude person...But she is beginig to show her true colors, finally. One contadiction after the other. Few weeks a go she was saying that revenge is not necesary because karma takes care of the person's fault and today she is offering herself to beat(or something) Jagdeo...I know, we change our minds sometimes. Elaine? She doesn't have a clue yet what she is doing here but she keeps trying...to bother... I thought she had grown a little; she was quite for a while, until she said in that post I just read, sending me a personal message, that she doesn't read my posts. She is the one I can't stand the most because of how hard she tries to convince everybody how good she is and all she shows is CRAP!!

Take care,

SB

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 18:35:51 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Do premies answer these questions?, more like
Message:
Elaine, you might think you've responded to VP's post, but really - you haven't.

Veep asked a lot of important questions there - important not just to exes, but, I would have thought, to premies too.

But when you avoid them yet seem to want to try and give the impression you've taken them on - well, where's that get anyone?

Would you, (or anyone else out there) like to give the premies' angle on VP's questions?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 19:55:10 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Hmm, I went back over the post ---
Message:
cq,
I thought I addressed the basic stuff in VP's questions.
Is there a really specific one you think I missed that you want me to address better? Ask me - but not a hundred at once,ok? That's what makes me address things in general terms -too many questions in one post.

Elaine

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 21:34:28 (GMT)
From: Yes Elaine
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Hmm, I went back over the post ---
Message:
too many questions for you. They are TOO many because you have no interest yet to get real. I do give you credit since I have noticed that you have cool down with your silly posts. THANKS!!

We can grow but we have to WANT to grow...you seem like you are doing some effort?

Write Elan Vital!! That can be of great help.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 20:07:45 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: so far so good
Message:
Yes, Elaine,

the question of VP's that I'd like you to try and answer - and BTW, I know you speak only for yourself and not for the whole of premiedom at large - is this:

If the 'Knowledge' is so amazing and beneficial and could bring so much good to the world - how come you keep it to yourself?

Why not share the joy and wonder with as many others as possible?

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 01:21:06 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: so far so good
Message:
Well cq,
That is a great question.

As most of us did, in the first few years, probably for most here in the 70's, that's what I did most. I am responsible for many people receiving K - I know mainly bec afterwards they told me.
Even if there was community sat sang - they would tell me personally I influenced them the most. Bec of that many people here are reaching for their 'barf bags' - sorry, but that was mostly in the 70's.
I think it was bec I was a good speaker, plus funny, plus relatable in my stories and did alot of psychedelics in my day so was pretty 'cosmic'.
Plus, I was quite attractive and got the attention of many new men in the crowd. I was generally a nice person and was willing to spend time with whomever. ( As opposed to the snobby, two-faced bitches I knew.)

As years went by - I have to admit I cared less and less about other people and their 'salvation' so to speak.
(Even now - my sister is 80 lbs over weight - I mean what can I do - so I do nothing and trust her own destiny or karma.)

It's not that I don't care about my sis or other people's spiritual 'salvation' - It's just that I don't take on the world's problems or issues anymore.

I deal with alot of cancer patients and permanently disabled people. There is so much I'd like to say to them - about diet or attitude or therapy regarding the intense family problems I hear about.
But, I can only get 'so' involved. I offer some suggestions - they don't take the suggestions and I go 'Oh,well.' They will find their way without my input. I can live with that.

I trust in God that he is taking care of everyone in their own time.

I do think the techniques of K are great,incredibly practical ways of going inside and blocking the senses. This having nothing to do with M.( I've told many people to try getting earplugs to help them concentrate inside.)

I know I go off telling you alittle about myself - like talking about my sister - but, I feel it gives you a bigger picture of who I am.
Bec - it's not just k I may not be shouting about on the streets. I also don't shout to people about some new, amazing diet - or other 'answers' I've found that I think would help people tremendously.

I find my enthusiasm about many things is not taken in as I would want so,I don't bother like I did many years ago.

And I have found alot more peace trusting in people's own paths or destinies.

That was as about as honest as I could get. If there is more you want to know I'll try.

But, you know, it's not like I don't or wouldn't tell people -I tell people about meditation -and then as I've said before - I suggest they ck out Yogananda's group. But, that meditation is very important for finding peace of mind or whatever you want to call it. I do suggest that a mantra is limited in my opinion.

And may I take this opportunity to say again, SB - I don't read your posts to me.

Take care,cq
Elaine

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 21:11:09 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: I can help here
Message:
One thing I'm good at is being blunt:)

I think what cq is trying to ask you is this:

If you think the Knowledge can help people why don't you simply show them the techniques?

Plain enough?


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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 19:28:40 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: so far so ... hmmmm
Message:
Great question it was, and VP's, not mine.

You say, Elaine,

'It's just that I
don't take on the world's problems or issues anymore.

I deal with alot of cancer patients and permanently disabled people.'

No editing there, that's a straight quote from your reply.

Somehow I can't find a clear way of putting your two statements side by side.

You'll spend time with cancer patients and permanently disabled people, but you won't share the 'Knowledge' with them??? (apart from suggesting earplugs?)

Please try and answer this question of VPs more clearly.

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 22:25:11 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: so far so ... hmmmm
Message:
I work in a basically coping type of job. I can't cure these people I just try to make their physical pain better.

I have talked to some about God and prayer and try to give them some positive things to consider.(When I feel there is an opening.) Some have said how much I lift their spirits and they look forward so to there treatments.I would probably be more apt to share something I'd just read in a self-help book that would pertain to their problem that they might want to experiment with-say, the next time they think their son-in-law is going to kill them or put sugar in their gas tank.

But, there would be no way I could think of that any one would pursue receiving K. One Muliple Sclerosis client did ask for a video and thought she'd check it out when in California but, never did. Way too much on her plate. I personally wouldn't want to subject these people to the 'aspirant process'. Like I said - if they feel they must learn how to meditate - I tell 'em they can do it thru the mail w/ the Self-Realization Fellowship.

I do feel that going inside and finding a peaceful place would lower their stress and thus blood pressure. But, walking in the woods would do that, too. And they won't be doing that either.

One cancer patient takes a day off with her husband in the middle of each week and goes 'jeeping ' in the mountains. That makes me happy.

Whatever works for 'em.

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 05:06:40 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: I'm reading a lot of wisdom in this post, but,
Message:
I have to dissent from this concept (because that's all it is)

But, that meditation is very important for finding peace of mind or whatever you want to call it. I do suggest that a mantra is limited in my opinion.

No, no, no, getting tired of saying it, no. Meditation is not necessary.

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 15:38:59 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I'm reading a lot of wisdom in this post, but,
Message:
Gerry,
I don't meditate as long as I used to - I get on pretty ok.
But, why is it that you say it's not necessary?
Hmm - I guess we better define our goals.

(This is not me defining my goal....I'm just musing here...)--

Meditation to me is a peaceful time to not have your senses going out into this changing world. It 'helps' me to get 'mellow'. It may not be necessary for that - but it sure works.It helps me be detached from the daily 'disasters' that happen to all of us that can -make me sick to my stomach,depressed,murderous,mean-spirited,unkind,hurtful to others,generally hurt my health, etc.

Are you saying that when ten 'bad' things happen to you during any given day - you're Mr. Cool and Wise. I'm not.

Meditation gives me a better perspective,so I'm able to handle this world in a healthier way.

That's just one thing off the top that I like about meditation.

Necessary would really have to be defined by you.

Thanks,
Elaine

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 22:16:03 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: I'm reading a lot of wisdom in this post, but,
Message:
I don't think meditation does anything, really. A nap can be as relaxing and refreshing. Also meditation (or at least a lot of meditation) isn't good for a lot of people. Does weird things to your brainwaves.

I don't think meditation is necessary to lead a fulfilling life and when it has all the baggage attached to it, like 'Knowledge' it becomes a whole different trip. Not a good one, either.

Are you saying that when ten 'bad' things happen to you during any given day - you're Mr. Cool and Wise. I'm not.

More like 'wiseguy' actually. And a bit hot headed at times. But I try not to take the woes of the world personally. After all, I'm not in control. Al Haig is.

Enjoy your meditation. Who am I to say you shouldn't. But it's not for me and it's not for everyone.

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 02:40:06 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: U don't read my posts because you are a BITCH!!
Message:
At my age I recognize one very easily and the more you talk the more I know how much you need to grow up. wait, better, You are a fake sick puppy! See? I said puppy....Bitch is too big for you after all...
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 05:23:06 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: anyone
Subject: No VP, is the process...
Message:
as it's called.

VP wrote:

Do premies ever question sending their friends through the aspirant process? If knowledge is so great, do they ever wonder why they can't just tell friends themselves? Why couldn't a premie just show their friends a video on it? Why couldn't they talk openly about it with new people who are interested? Why all the secrecy?
If knowledge is so wonderful and it's so important that it be spread, why don't they shout it in the streets? Is it really fun to think you have a big secret that makes you spiritually superior to other people? That would make me feel like a jerk. I would want to tell everyone I loved. Isn't there something WRONG with not being able to share something as important as knowledge?

Do premies every wonder why they are not able to take friends without knowledge to certain programs? Why can't people without knowledge watch certain videotapes? Why can't everything be shared with people who want to know or who are interested right from the start? Right up front? Does this ever feel WRONG to premies? Do they ever question this?

Premies learn to accept all the BS because they heard their Master say in many opportunities that everyone 'NEEDS TO WORK SYNCHRONIZED'...so, premies take the process as something necesary and play the game of propagation, sometimes shaking their heads and blaming all on Elan Vital, not Maharaji, but nevertheless, go along with it.

Yes, I felt stupid and didn't like it a bit when I had to avoid talking about my experience or Maharaji in general, because Elan Vital had instructed me to avoid personal contact with the aspirants; I was the aspirant contact for few years. Is a cult and members are brainwashed: Premies -devotees- cannot reason clearly, since the only clear thing they see is their devotion to Guru Maharaji, The Lord of The Universe, God.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 01:17:53 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Do premies question these things?
Message:
Do premies ever question sending their friends through the aspirant process? If knowledge is so great, do they ever wonder why they can't just tell friends themselves? Why couldn't a premie just show their friends a video on it? Why couldn't they talk openly about it with new people who are interested? Why all the secrecy?

I think a lot of premies tend to flutter between the arrogance of 'having that delicious secret' and that whole 'we are the chosen people' superior trip, and then the altruistic 'letting the world know' trip, but I think because most premies know that deep down the reaction of a lot of people would have to M and K would be that it is a cult. Premies do tend to only bring along friends or people that they've already got an established relationship with, and can almost trust that they're not going to turn around and go 'Ah Freak!' to their faces, and will still be respectful of their beliefs even if they think M sux. I watched this happen while I was with my ex, a long-timer. He'd only invite people along to videos who we'd gotten to know in a spiritual 'new-age' context first. Mind you their reaction was always the same. They thought it was nice, were polite, but never came back a second time. I'm the only one who became a premie who was in his circle in the time I was with him.

Do premies every wonder why they are not able to take friends without knowledge to certain programs? Why can't people without knowledge watch certain videotapes? Why can't everything be shared with people who want to know or who are interested right from the start? Right up front? Does this ever feel WRONG to premies? Do they ever question this?

Again, and I think this was where that book 'The Guru Papers' was so helpful to me, was that it explained the whole authoritarian process, and how the student is never good enough, and will always be one step behind the master, no matter how hard they try. And there's something about humans whereby if we have to wait a while and jump through hoops first to achieve a goal, we expect that everybody else would have to do the same, and we help to reinforce that - hence the 'you can't see this video yet - you don't have K' spiel. No short cuts. You gotta do your time first. And M and K would fall over in a heap, if it didn't build up that exclusive zone around it, and at times seem unobtainable, until you get so bloody obsessed about it, that you'll do anything to get it. It's the ole exclusive club syndrome. And it works too, especially with people saying 'wait till you get K! It's so amazing'. And you know the funny thing is, is that even after I had K for a couple of years, older premies told me that it was even better 20 years down the track, so again you're on that lower rung, not quite good enough yet.

But to answer your questions, I think premies deep down do ask all these questions, and M knows this too, but these are referred to as 'doubts' and you know how evil doubts are to a premie. And also I think that until they are out of the cult, and get their logic back, they are never going to see it very clearly. You know it's like when you're in a bad job or relationship and you end up kind of numbing yourself to how bad it really is while in it, and then once you do finally get out, you look back and go 'fuck that really was bad.' The human body must kick into some sort of survival numbing process I reckon.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 16:43:01 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Hey it's not corrupted now
Message:
Great answer, TD! Thanks
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 02:13:07 (GMT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Hi, TD!
Message:
Hello, there, TD!
How are you doing?
I'd like to read your post, but I keep getting a script error and the text won't come up. That's what I get for using Microsoft, eh, Brian? (IF you read this)
Alas, I'll try again tomorrow
Take Care!
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 03:39:10 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Hi VP, shit my message got corrupted!
Message:
Damn, I don't know what happened to it ... but it's disappeared when I submitted it. And wouldn't you know it, I didn't save it in a WP program either,so I can't just repaste it. Bugger!
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Date: Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 23:10:12 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Do premies question these things?
Message:
Hi VP,

Good questions. I have talked to 'premies' or 'students' or whatever followers of Maharaji are called now, who say the NEVER try to get anyone to go to an introductory program, the aspirant program, a video, or anything else. They think the intro/video format is really dead, with premies acting like robots, unable to even speak themselves, so they avoid the whole thing. Very unlike the way we were in the 70s, when we told everyone we knew about knowledge and gave 'satsang' all the time. At least I did. I guess some premies must still bring people to these things, because there are still handfuls of people receiving knowledge in the west, but the numbers are really small, according to Maharaji's own statistics. It's a good indication that most premies don't bring people to the aspirant process.

I also never heard about whether premies complained that they weren't allowed to give 'satsang' anymore. I think most premies were just relieved that they no longer had Maharaji's COMMANDMENT to NEVER DELAY IN ATTENDING SATSANG. That meant you might be able to watch ER or NYPD Blue instead. Do you premies from the 70s remember that we went to satsang EVERY SINGLE NIGHT and you NEVER missed unless you were on your deathbed, or had some important 'service' that kept you away?

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Date: Fri, Jul 07, 2000 at 19:43:26 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Do premies question these things?
Message:
'Do you premies from the 70s remember that we went to satsang EVERY SINGLE NIGHT and you NEVER missed unless you were on your deathbed, or had some important 'service' that kept you away? ' - and all because the guru said 'never delay in attending satsang'.

Hey, that was a commandment, right, Jim?

Anyone want to claim travel expenses? (just a little lawsuit, aw, come on now ...)

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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:27:56 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: netguest42@yahoo.com
To: Joe
Subject: It makes me feel like a jerk-
Message:
that I ever behaved like that. But the brainwashing might have worn off had I not been required to immerse myself daily in the dogma. Brings back memories: Never delay in attending satsang, constantly meditate and remember holy name, never leave room for doubt in your mind, always have faith in God: ie GooRoo Maharaji, and....what was the last one? I am still more angry than embarrased that I believed this shit! Thank GOD I never followed the initiators (Maharaji's) not so gentle suggestion that I quit school and join the ashram! Too bad my husband quit school though. Wonder what those pricks Randy Proudy and David Smith are doing today? Sure would like to run into them and have some 'chit chat'! Ha!!
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Date: Thurs, Jul 06, 2000 at 14:19:10 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Reply to Joe
Message:
Hey Joe,

I remember nightly satsang very well.
I remember it all.
Yes, alot changed.
Yes, some of it seemed and still seems wacky to me.
Knowledge works when I practice and when I don't I can feel the grace gently nudging me to seek my peace within and not without.
But nothing stopped me from inviting and participating until I heard about Jagdeo.
What is stopping it from happening again, and how will the premie population know it if the past is not acknowledged and the word goes out that such situations will be handled differently in the future?
I am not surprised that a sick person can get into any organization and manifest craziness unexpectedly. What bothers me is the way it was dealt with re Jagdeo.
Not that I think Maharaji ever condoned Jagdeo's actions.
But however it happened, Jagdeo got away with this shit right under Maharaji's nose.
That REALLY bothers me.
'Not a leaf falls, his eye is on the sparrow, suffer the little children, whosoever offends one of these little ones it would be better if a millstone were hanged around his neck and he were flung into the sea...'
All those 'preciousness-of-children-in-the-eyes-of-God' references and more has been on my mental desktop 24/7 since I first heard about this over a year ago. And then that satasang in Montrose about a good father not letting his child crawl into a fire....
Not being naiive, into child abuse, nor just being another premie bystander, I have my own ideas about all this. But that and a buck will get you a cup of coffee, ya know?
Beside the fact that Susan or Abi could have been me or mine, in the eyes of God, THEY ARE ME AND MINE. That is how we are meant to relate...we're all love/one, by the grace(?)..old song lyrics.
For God's sake, cells and plants send out positive energy to nearby injured cells and plants. How much more should people, the crown of creation in theory if not practice, be sensitive and healing and compassionate to injured parties, especially children.
Yes, Joe, this premie does question these things.

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