Jim -:- Just gimme dad ol' tom relijun! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 16:24:30 (GMT)

__ cq -:- spread the word brutha, - without thoughts?! (nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 20:30:01 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- At least Satpal is Honest about it..... -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 20:12:08 (GMT)

__ Hal -:- Better than Prempal -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:44:29 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- OT. to Hal -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:33:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ Hal -:- OT. to SB -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 11:05:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ SB -:- That's is what I thought -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 14:16:49 (GMT)

__ Zen -:- Just gimme dad ol' tom relijun! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:03:47 (GMT)

__ Don King -:- Just gimme dad ol' tom relijun! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:03:31 (GMT)

__ __ Kate Mantilini, Boxn Fan -:- Just gimme dad ol' tom relijun! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:23:14 (GMT)

__ mindless one -:- Just gimme dad ol' tom relijun! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:49:03 (GMT)

__ Way -:- Re:Just gimme dad ol' tom relijun! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:47:17 (GMT)

__ P-man -:- Just gimme dad ol' tom relijun! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:10:51 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Furthermore.... -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 16:42:45 (GMT)

Jim -:- Maybe we should call the cops or an ambulance! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 16:17:15 (GMT)

__ S.B. -:- I got your number: i'll call you (nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:15:26 (GMT)

__ SB -:- Maybe we should call the cops or an ambulance! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 17:57:54 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Maybe we should call the cops or an ambulance! -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 00:15:00 (GMT)

Who Cares? -:- Whilst upon a MidSummer's Nights Dream -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 08:34:11 (GMT)

__ Hal -:- I care about you. Seek help soon............. -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 14:35:20 (GMT)

CHR -:- Its more of a cult now -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 04:21:49 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- Good Question..... -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:31:47 (GMT)

__ __ Way -:- To FA re:Good Question..... -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:07:31 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Hmm....cult mush, maybe? -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 05:31:19 (GMT)

__ __ chr -:- Hmm....cult mush, maybe? -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 05:52:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ Loaf -:- Hmm....cult mush, maybe? -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 08:15:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Sure, Loaf, anything you say -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 16:00:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Maharaji and McDonalds -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 02:16:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Crazy for The Lordy -:- Premies are called customers in the catalogue. LOL -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 08:07:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- BTW, I was with u all the way up 'til then (nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 16:18:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ VP -:- Our culture is consumerism -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 14:12:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Our culture -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 17:56:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Jerry Springer and the Sopranos--ot -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 02:03:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- It's David Hockney -- .... -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 16:57:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Is that your final answer??----ot... -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 02:49:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Perhaps They Should Be Called Dot.Commies? nt -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 17:04:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Diz -:- Cult mush -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 11:19:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Cult mush -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 01:09:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ chr -:- renewing contact -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 13:55:09 (GMT)

P-man -:- This one you won't believe... -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 19:13:01 (GMT)

__ Roger eDrek -:- Child Molesters vs. Thieves and Prostitutes -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 02:03:33 (GMT)

__ __ salam -:- Child Molesters vs. Thieves and Prostitutes -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 08:56:09 (GMT)

__ __ Marianne -:- Child Molesters vs. Thieves and Prostitutes -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 01:55:46 (GMT)

__ __ Monmot -:- Child Molesters vs. Thieves and Prostitutes -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 03:13:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ Ex-Prostitute -:- PAMs -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:47:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Monmot -:- PAMs -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 20:07:07 (GMT)

__ Nigel -:- LOL...!!! :-) -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 23:55:56 (GMT)

__ Robyn -:- This one you won't believe... -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 19:25:04 (GMT)

__ __ P-man -:- This one you won't believe... -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 14:36:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ Robyn -:- This one you won't believe... -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:08:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Katie -:- This one you won't believe... -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:18:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- This one you won't believe... -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 20:22:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- You are wrong: Maharaji is no boloney, he is Lard. -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:38:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Lard of the Universe? -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 17:31:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Lard of the Universe? Maybe even less than that -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 19:35:48 (GMT)

__ __ VP -:- Hi, Robyn -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 19:42:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ Robyn -:- Hi, Robyn -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 20:07:31 (GMT)

Sir David -:- The sad story is all here -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 18:05:22 (GMT)

__ bill -:- thank you Sir David..(nt) -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 23:57:08 (GMT)

__ Robyn -:- The sad story is all here -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 19:17:47 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- You simple premies never got to see this ! -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 17:04:12 (GMT)

__ bill -:- Like TMers around Maharishi::::)-(nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 00:00:32 (GMT)

__ __ Stonor -:- Don't laugh - recently found out my brother-in- -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 22:36:39 (GMT)

__ Daneane -:- Does that look good on your resume? -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 23:58:48 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- LOL -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 08:28:12 (GMT)

__ Robyn -:- You simple premies never got to see this ! -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 22:43:44 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Hey Robyn! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 02:14:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ Robyn -:- Hey Robyn! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 11:39:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Hey Robyn! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 13:35:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Hey Robyn! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:10:17 (GMT)

__ cq -:- hey J-M, what do instructors do these days? -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 18:09:54 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- hey J-M, what do instructors do these days? -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 21:52:06 (GMT)

__ Loaf -:- Which one were you JM ? (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 17:51:11 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Which one were you JM ? (nt) -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 21:53:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ chr -:- Question for JM re Essen program -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 03:36:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- I guess it was Dortmund -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 07:23:48 (GMT)

Zen -:- Irene you excuses in the Spanish forum . -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 15:59:07 (GMT)

__ sb -:- Zen was blocked from the Spanish forum: WHY isn't -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:02:46 (GMT)

__ __ Another VP in Spain -:- Zen was blocked from the Spanish forum: WHY isn't -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:25:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ The real VP -:- FA, SB, I didn't write the above post. -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:52:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ SB -:- Zen was blocked from the Spanish forum: WHY isn't -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 06:02:24 (GMT)

__ Yoy ARE slow!! -:- Irene you excuses in the Spanish forum . -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 16:28:38 (GMT)

__ __ Elaine -:- SB - it's liar, not lier (nt -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 16:34:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ SB -:- Thanks Elaine -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 16:51:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ VP -:- To SB -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 18:38:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Zen -:- To VP -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 18:57:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- To Zen -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 19:05:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zen -:- To VP -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 21:10:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- No quiero leer -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 01:41:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zen -:- No quiero leer -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 09:33:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Irene -:- Quit taking all so seriously!! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 15:42:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- No quiero leer -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 13:21:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- FA: ZEN, you have no right to do that, without my -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 01:20:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zen -:- ZEN, you have no right to do that, without my -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 09:49:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- HOW COME YOU CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH NOW??? -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 15:40:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ VA -:- FA: ZEN, you have no right to do that, without my -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 02:22:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sb -:- Thanks V, I'm ok -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 02:50:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zen -:- I am an idiot and a paranoid esquizofrenico. Ok? -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 22:02:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- I can give you another chance if.... -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 01:24:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zen -:- I can give you another chance if.... -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 10:07:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- No Engligsh noew, eh? You can translate .... -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 15:45:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- SB and Zen! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 17:31:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- SB and Zen! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:08:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Hey SB -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:16:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zen -:- Hey SB -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:34:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- No -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:47:55 (GMT)

JtF -:- The SPEAKER speaketh (sort of) -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 10:12:28 (GMT)

__ Nostradummy -:- The Future, Clearly and Simply with Appreciation -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 15:40:04 (GMT)

__ __ Nostramummy -:- He gets to keep everything? -:- Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 06:06:48 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Question about that Not Maharaji's Mixed Bag page -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 07:48:47 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- Question about that Not Maharaji's Mixed Bag page -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 08:36:48 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- OK, now what about Roger's links ...... -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 09:03:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- OK, now what about Roger's links ...... -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 09:39:36 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Serenity: Is it m's new yacht's name? Any details? -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 07:45:19 (GMT)

tonette -:- Anyone want to go to a chat room and talk? -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 05:19:29 (GMT)

__ Selene -:- you could use Dave's chat -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 05:44:19 (GMT)

__ __ VP -:- Final Barf out -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 18:58:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- VP I sucked as a premie -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 01:48:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ VP -:- Selene it is a compliment -nt :) -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 01:56:38 (GMT)

recent video watcher -:- quote from m -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:46:23 (GMT)

__ Nigel -:- It was always a double-bluff... -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 02:16:45 (GMT)

__ arti afficianado -:- quote from m -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 05:17:51 (GMT)

__ __ Ex Arti Fun -:- It's a good fun idea: Do it. -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 06:57:28 (GMT)

Tonette -:- Let's focus - is the forum a bunch of hot gas? -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:22:37 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Let's focus - is the forum a bunch of hot gas? -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:43:11 (GMT)

__ __ Tonette -:- Good one Jim! LMAO!!!!! nt -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 05:00:30 (GMT)

Unity school ex -:- Jagdeo's 'children's satsang' -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:18:37 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- Damn....... -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 23:04:16 (GMT)

__ __ Ben Lurking -:- Damn....... -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:39:25 (GMT)

__ VP -:- Jagdeo's 'children's satsang' -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 19:18:00 (GMT)

__ TIPS -:- Actions we can take -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 16:59:47 (GMT)

__ __ bill -:- can you type up the handout we need for the auth.. -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 00:31:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- can you type up the handout we need for the auth.. -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 05:58:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Selene -:- and ps to bill, TIPS, whoever -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 06:03:47 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- Please... -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 08:04:04 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- Jagdeo's 'children's satsang' -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 05:29:54 (GMT)

__ Tonette -:- Do the right thing -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 05:12:04 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Wow! -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:36:03 (GMT)

__ __ bill -:- Sir David, add this to your site..(nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 00:03:41 (GMT)

__ __ Jethro -:- It's ok to lie for the lord -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 10:28:36 (GMT)

__ Tonette -:- I cry when I think about this -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:31:25 (GMT)

SB asking for Help!! -:- Does anybody here speaks Spanish?? -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 03:43:38 (GMT)

__ Amigo -:- Does anybody here speaks Spanish?? -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 17:03:19 (GMT)

__ VP -:- Does anybody here speaks Spanish?? -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 18:19:03 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- Does anybody here speaks Spanish?? -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 06:27:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ VP -:- English is lacking -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 13:32:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ SB -:- Devoto=devotee -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 16:06:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Zen -:- Pedazo de tortillera, o mariconte Ver Pijo. -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 14:23:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ VP -:- I tried -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 03:23:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ VP -:- 'el premie' translates 'it awards'--nt -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 13:35:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- that happens to me too, veep! (ot) -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 17:08:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Espanol es facil, Katie-ot -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 03:10:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Practice? Reason to go there more often... -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:12:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Zenando -:- Your that believe ? you are frank? Not! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 14:35:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Soy un ex -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 03:47:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Well... -:- Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:31:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- La Tarea (homework) -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 03:39:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- La Tarea (homework) -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:26:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Senor VP -:- SB--ot -:- Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 03:42:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- LOL anos hahahaha -:- Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:43:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Why not good english NOW? (nt) ROFL!!! -:- Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 16:09:05 (GMT)

__ Tonette -:- I wish I did but 'no hablo espanol' nt -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:14:17 (GMT)

__ San Pedro -:- Does anybody here speak Spanish?? -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 03:49:50 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- Now A translator is needed...more problems...LOL -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 03:53:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ Zen -:- Now A translator is needed...more problems...LOL -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 12:14:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Zen -:- Is not about YOUR english, but your motives, Zen -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 13:59:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Zen -:- Is not about YOUR english, but your motives, Zen -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 14:56:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- yes, but Brian haven't read the emails you sent me -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 16:56:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ What is your deal, ZEN? -:- Why did you SEND ME my message to you? -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 14:19:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- You are a premie, eh? -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 14:36:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zen -:- You are a premie, eh? -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 15:18:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- My opinion? Premie, written all over -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 16:30:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Zen -:- Now A translator is needed...Not scram -:- Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 12:21:19 (GMT)

Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 16:24:30 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Just gimme dad ol' tom relijun! Message:

Anyone nostalgic for the simple, unadulterated anti-mind programming this cult was based on, look no further. Here's Satpal's latest 'editorial': THOUGHT— THE BARRIER IN EXPERIENCING REALITY Manav Dharam (July 2000) Thought is the bondage- the barrier. It creates an opaque screen of concepts, labels, images, words, judgments, and definitions that blocks all true relationship. It comes between you and yourself, between you and your fellow man and woman, between you and nature, between you and God. It is this screen of thought that creates the illusion of separateness, the illusion that there is you and a totally separate “other.” You then forget the essential fact that, underneath the level of physical appearances and separate forms, you are one with all that is. By “forget,” I mean that you can no longer feel this oneness as self-evident reality. You may believe it to be true, but you no longer know it to be true. A belief may be comforting. Only through your own experience, however, does it become liberating. Not to be able to stop thinking is a dreadful affliction, but we don’t realize this because almost everybody is suffering from it, so it is considered normal. This incessant mental noise prevents you from finding that realm of inner stillness that is inseparable from Being. It also creates a false mind-made self that casts a shadow of fear and suffering. The philosopher Descartes believed that he had found the most fundamental truth when he made his famous statement: “I think, therefore I am.” He had, in fact, given expression to the most basic error: to equate thinking with Being and identity with thinking. The compulsive thinker, which means almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent separateness, in an insanely complex world of continuous problems and conflict, a world that reflects the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind. Enlightenment is a state of wholeness, of being “at one” and therefore at peace. At one with life in its manifested aspect, the world, as well as with your deepest self and life unmanifested- at one with Being. Enlightenment is not only the end of suffering and of continuous conflict within and without, but also the end of the dreadful enslavement to incessant thinking. What an incredible liberation this is! Thinking has become a disease. Disease happens when things get out of balance. For example, there is nothing wrong with cells dividing and multiplying in the body, but when this process continues in disregard of the total organism, cells proliferate and we have disease. The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. Used wrongly, however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more accurately, it is not so much that you use your mind wrongly- you usually don’t use it at all. It uses you. This is the disease. You believe that you are your mind. This is the delusion. The instrument has taken you over. Query? Is this better or worse than Maharaji's current cult mush?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 20:30:01 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Jim Subject: spread the word brutha, - without thoughts?! (nt) Message:

spread the word brutha, - without thoughts?! (nt)

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 20:12:08 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Jim Subject: At least Satpal is Honest about it..... Message:

This 'war with your own mind' drivel is exactly the same philosophy that Maharaji still espouses, he is just too dishonest to come out and say it anymore, like he used to, because it isn't as socially acceptable as it was in the 70s. But the basic belief, that knowledge is a wonderful experience but your evil mind makes you 'forget' and therefore you need Maharaji to remind you, is expressed by Maharaji to this day, over and over. Maharaji is just a lot more incoherent than his brother is, and also is trying to say there aren't any beliefs, so he has to kind of slip it in sideways.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:44:29 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Jim Subject: Better than Prempal Message:

Jim, whether or not one agrees with the spiritual philosophy of that discourse, it is certainly a clearer and much more intellectual presentation than Prempal's. Prempal usually speaks a load of irrelevant and confusing nonsense. No guru nonsense for me again though. I'm not tempted to follow Bal Bagwan ji either. No fuckin way Jose! Best wishes Hal

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:33:43 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Hal Subject: OT. to Hal Message:

What language do you speak there? thanks, how are you???

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 11:05:32 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: SB Subject: OT. to SB Message:

Hi, I'm very well thanks and hope you are too. We speak Portuguese, which as you may know is quite similar to Spanish yet probably incomprehensible to a Spanish speaker! Best wishes Hal

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 14:16:49 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Hal Subject: That's is what I thought Message:

I wasn't sure if it's the official language. Ignorant of many things, you know? LOL Gald you are doing fine. I'm holding on...;) Take care muchacho.Thanks. SB

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:03:47 (GMT) From: Zen Email: None To: Jim Subject: Just gimme dad ol' tom relijun! Message:

As the principle of M.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:03:31 (GMT) From: Don King Email: None To: Jim Subject: Just gimme dad ol' tom relijun! Message:

Hey Jim-just got a minute here, in between promoting another boxing match.How's this for a match? We put sat and prem in a ring and let them go at it-winner takes all,hands down. Who ever is left standing at the end is SATGURU for the new millenium, no questions asked.Premies, ex-premies and most of India would tune in, $15-20 a crack, we could end all this confusion right now, make a few reparations to old timers for lost wages, pain and suffering etc. and have a little fun as well. Bole Ji and raja ji could work the corners, pams would be up front at ringside,I'll let you be the ref,now that mata ji's not with us anymore.Maybe Prof. Tanden,Mike Donner and Mike Dettmers could be the judges. After that, we could market the match to MTV, in one of their 'claymation' fights, which are always a hoot.Of course, shirts,scorecards,drinks and refreshments would round out the take..we can work that out later. Just a thought...hate to see this sibling rivalry go on too long without some reconciliation...and we could all make a buck or two at the same time...

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:23:14 (GMT) From: Kate Mantilini, Boxn Fan Email: None To: Don King Subject: Just gimme dad ol' tom relijun! Message:

Don ('The Do') King: Excellent proposal. No wonder you're king (forget James Cameron, he's boring, unlike you), you da man. Your suggestion reminds me of a joke by Richard Jeni about religious wars: On going to war over religion: 'You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend.' I think a match in the ring is just the ticket. No ear biting, of course. Whoever wins gets to be the Imagineer. Kate Mantilini Boxing Afficianado, Fan of Don The King

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:49:03 (GMT) From: mindless one Email: None To: Jim Subject: Just gimme dad ol' tom relijun! Message:

Actually,as far as new-age drivel goes, I prefer satpal to m hands down.At least he shows the ability to form sentences that make sense, even if you don't agree with the content. What he says actually has a point to it,and at times could apply to certain situations in life. Now m,he's a piece of work. A few years ago I had the 'service' of reviewing videos in a community,to put them together for intro programs to be shown at a local library. I really began to see how inane his 'message' was.The guy literally says nothing, and has the most pompous,grandiose manner as he sits on stage spouting off ..literally nothing. And the fan club loves it, and can never figure out why the general public is not rushing in,in droves,to hear the 'message'. And when you waste an evening watching this nonsense for 45 minutes and get absolutely nothing but bewilderment from it,you can then begin the process of dedicating yourself,or 'preparing for knowledge'. Of course that's not all-it gets better. You can watch more drivel, along with pictures of clocks,jets,moving water and flowers superimposed over m's face telling you to have a great experience of life. And what's more,you can do this for the rest of your life, once or twice a week!Not to mention participation,practice and the opportunity to donate money for various projects(like a few years ago, m raised $45,000.00 for a special project-it turned out to be for an old car that he fixed up for premlata.After a few weeks or months the novelty wore off, and she sports around in something much more appropriate now.) So, being a little bit intellectually inclined, I'll go with satpal over prempal. But I'm open-if prempal can out do brother satpal,maybe I'll vote for him next time, but for now, I haVE to say 'Bolie shri Satpal!' Maybe we should promote Sat pal a bit more and sponsor a US micro tour for him...I'll pay for m's entrance fee if he'd like to attend and participate...he could even fly ole sat pal around for a reduced fee, in between his own tours, pick up a little cash on the side (no need to go through that messy IRS stuff and declare the income)and bridge the gap between the rawat boys.Maybe Bole Ji could write a song about it,inspired by some white powder from raja ji...

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:47:17 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re:Just gimme dad ol' tom relijun! Message:

Jim, Good question. All religions make people enemies of themselves. The culprits are their own minds and bodies. How sad this is. Just like all religions and gurus, Satpal tells people that they are basically sick and need God's grace, which he has to give. Can't premies see how wrong this is, whenever it is said? I saw a small report recently about Tammy Faye Baker. She says that although she still thinks of herself as a Christian, she now says that she 'doesn't like religion, because it hurts people.' If Tammy Faye can grow up, I guess there is hope.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:10:51 (GMT) From: P-man Email: None To: Jim Subject: Just gimme dad ol' tom relijun! Message:

Actually, I don't think maharaji was ever as clear as this article. It does have a certain appeal and that's why we adopted it as truth back in the 70's. As far as comparing it to the current mush, the old philosophy was much better. Even if it was tainted, you could get your teeth into it, it gave some comfort, and you didn't feel like you were pretending. At least not at first.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 16:42:45 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Furthermore.... Message:

This definitely was the cult philosophy when I got in. It was supposedly the timeless truth Maharaji inherited from his Master, etc. I say we're entitled to a clear statement from Maharaji, or EV on his behalf, stating whether or not Maharaji still subscribes to this belief. If not, when did he abandon it? Why? Fully or partially? And who'd he tell? Certainly not me. That's for sure.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 16:17:15 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Maybe we should call the cops or an ambulance! Message:

Ever since EV put up its new FAQs I've been trying to phone them. All I get, though, is their voice mail. Doesn't matter when I call, no one answers. I've tried to get through to different 'departments' thinking that maybe 'Accounting' or 'Communications' might be easier than 'PR'. But all I get is voice mail. Even when I 'stay on the line for assistance', voice mail. AND, when I have left messages, guess what? No one calls! I'm wondering, do you think they all committed suicide or something? You know, like those other guys with the Nikes? Maybe someone else might have better luck. If you want to call and ask if and when EV's going to begin the dialogue they seem to be bracing themselves for, please, take a shot at it: (818) 889-1193 I mean, I got this number off their 'Press Kit', for God's sake. The other option is to call 911 (which, any of you Kaballists will note, is 'embedded' in their number anyway!)

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:15:26 (GMT) From: S.B. Email: None To: Jim Subject: I got your number: i'll call you (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 17:57:54 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Jim Subject: Maybe we should call the cops or an ambulance! Message:

Give me a call if you want: I have help for you, I think. Have my number still?

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 00:15:00 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: SB Subject: Maybe we should call the cops or an ambulance! Message:

No, SB, I don't have your number anymore. At least, I don't think I do. But call me again -- like you did earlier today -- and if I'm not here, leave your number and I'll call you back.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 08:34:11 (GMT) From: Who Cares? Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Whilst upon a MidSummer's Nights Dream Message:

I was taken back by the researce on God and was infronted whist an ex site. This was an intriguing turn about to my studies. A search for one item, resulted in an disgruntled lot. I have posted as an accomplish.. in the past. Baptized Roman Catholic. I fear not sin for hell is not an option. To go to heaven requires venial et mortal sins inconceivabilities. `Deliquent to thine eye. Being steadfast in the holy trinity. Thee Father, the son, AND the HOLY GHOOOOOOst. I, am bewildered as to the gossip against the love of life, itself. The man has gone to the moon, but only again marvels @ the Yucatan Peninsula. Might have a few to many warm beers, on a hot Cancun night, and o my god, livin\]\in Lodi again. For said gifts are not registered by my researce sample. But, it, queries, me. As to the insignificance. the smell of the gardenia, the flight of the Swan. The coming of the new age. o. yee of lil' patience. Why?? do??? birds have big chests. Is it? of course it is... Big hearts which rrrrrrrrrrr are necessary for airborn dynometrics. Loop thee loops are spontaneous wings a flying. soar they do.and 99.9%%%%%%% of all birds are live and let fly creatures. And what makes them soar. the air, the magic makes them soar. And if this is to trite for the non mktg/researce samplees? then, may I suggest, throw the first rock @ la bella donna if yee if are w/o mortal or venial sins. otherwise, get a glimplse of the up an coming age. In which the Pope of Roma, Herself tears @ the infinite face. Me Bad...pope's r not, female. me bad. a pole of sorts: http//cali4help: The Lakers 1. who cares?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 14:35:20 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Who Cares? Subject: I care about you. Seek help soon............. Message:

and not from a guroo or midication. Sounds like the nollidge did some wicked things to your brain man ! (or woman )

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 04:21:49 (GMT) From: CHR Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Its more of a cult now Message:

than it ever was. M seems to have gone to great pains to throw away the so called cult trappings of yesteryear and yet in many ways its more of a cult now. OK, so years ago there were all the Hindi externals, but in reality it was more open and less secretive. Think about it. When I received K it was clear what you had to do (30 satsangs). There was no differentiation between PWK prorams and public programs-anybody could attend. Darshan was out in the open- it normally happened at the end of a program and M just stayed where he was sitting while we all filed through. Anybody could go through if they wanted to, new people, premies, aspirants. Anybody could speak at the regular meetings(satsangs) and often people just spoke about whatever they were going through. Then M changed it all so that there were programs for premies only, getting K sometimes took years. Then he got rid of any premie being able to speak about K at the nightly programs-only instructors specially trained in what to say could talk about the K. So it became less of a personal experience and expression and more of a formula ie more secretive and cultish. Finally only he could talk about it, so instructors just introduced lifeless videos. The latest step puts it all completely behind closed doors-no interaction, no discussion, self expression -just M droning on into your head in your living room. In the early days it was clear-OK so it was deluded too, but at least we were told what K supposedly was, who M supposedly was and what the path involved. Now K is some nebulus thing that has something to do with 'life', M is ?? well what is he? We are told he's not god or a guru, yet the relationship with him is still stated as very important. He's a master, yet he's an ordinary human being. Its not a cult , yet its all very secretive and people are told what to say and when. M is trying to have his cake and eat it too.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:31:47 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: CHR Subject: Good Question..... Message:

Hi Chr, I think Maharaji is trying to equate 'cult' with weird Hindu practices and terms, the ashram, and things like that in order to explain away his very embarrassing past, and to imply that his organization isn't a cult anymore. Elan Vital implies on its website, and certainly Glen Whittaker does in his incredibly revisionist and dishonest history lesson of Maharaji in the West, that yes, maybe for awhile Maharaji was heading a cult, but now he has realized that and changed things and now it isn't a cult. Obviously, the people who wrote that open letter, at www.openlettertomaharaji.org, do not agree with him. The problem with Elan Vital's 'logic' is that a 'cult' isn't dependent on the externals. The essence of a cult is what goes on in the heads of the members, in attempting to follow the teachings of the cult. Most of the cult-research organizations include three essential elements of a cult, which Maharaji and Elan Vital still exemplify in spades, maybe more now than in the past: 1. First, in a cult, there is usually a simple solution offered for fulfillment, happiness or for solving peoples' problems. Obviously 'knowledge' is still offered in that way. Maybe it isn't referred to as god-realization anymore, but it is still sold as a way to access truth, happiness and peace, and there is still the basic cult-teaching that has always been there, that happiness is inside and not outside. 2. As a result of getting the 'simple solution,' members of the cult get to feel 'lucky' or 'superior' to people who don't have it. In Elan Vital, the aspirant program serves an important purpose here. By seeing people who want knowledge, it reinforces in members that it must be something great. Maharaji continually talks about how great knowledge is, and makes some minor and ineffective efforts to 'spread' knowledge. I think he has to at least act like he is doing that to keep donations coming in, but as we know, he has been a tremendous failure at doing that, especially in the West. 3. Cults usually have a leader who is considered special, who is considered the source of the 'simple solution,' has special powers, is unlike normal people in some 'higher' sense, and is worthy of reverence and devotion, and in the case of Maharaji, the new 'cult-speak' of 'gratitude.' Obviously this is, and always has been, the case in Elan Vital. 4. A cult has little or no tolerance for doubt of the cult or the leader, nor for criticism of the cult, and almost ZERO tolerance of criticism of the leader. How many times have ex-premies noticed the complete inability of a premie to utter even the teensiest criticism of Maharaji, even though it is claimed he is an 'ordinary person?' What would happen to a premie who uttered such criticisms in a room full of premies? How many of you exes have experienced the anger, fear from premies, or how you become a pariah among premies, you avoid you like the plague. All of the above characteristics of a cult have existed in Maharaji's cult since the beginning, and continue now. Other characteristics, I think may have INCREASED. For example: General paranoia and distrust of the outside world. Although there aren't ashrams anymore, Maharaji in later years has shied away from the press completely, the media, and contact with people who aren't premies. Information within the organization has gotten more controlled, with most of it just going one way, including videos and satellite events. There is no real opportunity for feedback. As you mentioned, PWKs aren't allowed to even give public speeches about their experience of knowledge anymore, and Elan Vital sets us no formats for open discussions about their experiences with each other. I also think the organization is really out of touch with the way it comes accross, reflected by the FAQs on its website, which are ridiculous on their face, but really undermine Elan Vital's credibility with the long-time premies, who know from personal experience what is being said, and the ridiculous excuses given, just aren't true.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:07:31 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Joe Subject: To FA re:Good Question..... Message:

Joe, Very well put. suggestion: I think Joe's analysis deserves some sort of permanent spot on this site or some other site, in juxtaposition to the analysis about cults provided by Elan Vital.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 05:31:19 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: CHR Subject: Hmm....cult mush, maybe? Message:

CHR, This is kind of what I was talking about last week when I suggested that the cult's become much less fanatical in modern times even as it's grown more insidious, at least in terms of draining off its members' integrity. Taking into account all the history any old-time premies necessarily know (and don't wait for them to admit it!), I wonder, can you think of a single one of them you could call an honest human being? I can't. Every last premie who's been around since the seventies at least is a liar. That's my opinion and, I'm afraid, it's been borne out in all of the contact I've had with these people. It sickens me. And all I can say about any new premies is that they must be a little 'dull', shall we say? To be able to fall into the cult today is an abdication of even the most basic sense of scrutiny, let alone 'due diligence'. So, yes, in a way the cult's gotten worse. The people in it are worse, I'm afraid. 'Ye shall know them by their fruits'? Yeah, I guess so.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 05:52:45 (GMT) From: chr Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hmm....cult mush, maybe? Message:

Jim, from what I can ascertain, very few new people do fall into M's setup these days. The last time I went along to see him, about three years back, it was a very aged and depleted following- hardly a new face, just a bunch of worn out, greying familiar faces.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 08:15:39 (GMT) From: Loaf Email: None To: chr Subject: Hmm....cult mush, maybe? Message:

I would say that this is a time of consolidation for him - rather than expensive, generous growth. He urges PWK to be a part of the team that is going to carry things forward - and yet in becoming more corporate - culturally EV is dying. This death is not one of numbers, but of a culture of stifling control. This is apparant to some new comers - but those old hands who welcome it will not see it as the unhealthy thing it is. I know without doubt that this form suits M's purposes - and as such will brook no opposition, but 'culturally' rather than practically - it is constricting. A tribe needs to have no room to play, to make mistakes, the members find a voice or participation beyond 'fitting in'- because without the occaisional spark of genius which diverse voices can produce, there is only ever increasing conformity. When the madhatters were giving satsang, and Premies were rambling, there were many different colours and flavours, aspects and reflections of life with Knowledge. It was a human, confused and shattered image - which maharaji could blossom under. He was bonkers too. Now that people have 'grown up' there is more to lose - and we have the horrible situation of Ron Greaves feeling compromised, in a climate were previously everything was 'dealable with' - there was 'grace' and 'lila' to justify the hugest errors, a sort of forgiveness - it was only where Premies are around M where the fear of disapproval makes spontenaity difficult. It seems to me that the culture of fear which exists under the service at the Residence has spread, subtly, so that people are numbed by contact with the mighty programme machine - rather than turned on as creative and active individuals. M's singing, his poetry and films will all be received by the thirsty as rain from heaven. But we can sing too. We can dance. We can write - but not as a pale reflection of M's already pallid works. We (as people) need to find and celebrate our own culture, rather than being mesmerised by somebody elses. As such it matters little whether you are stunned by Speilberg, MacDonalds or Maharaji - in the long term you are merely a consumer.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 16:00:08 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Loaf Subject: Sure, Loaf, anything you say Message:

We (as people) need to find and celebrate our own culture, rather than being mesmerised by somebody elses. As such it matters little whether you are stunned by Speilberg, MacDonalds or Maharaji - in the long term you are merely a consumer. Oh yeah, baby! I was just over at the ex-Spielberg site where former devotees are detaling the many years they wasted donating all of their time and their every last dime to worshipping 'St. Steven'. And don't get me started on McDonalds. Talk about cults!

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 02:16:33 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Jim Subject: Maharaji and McDonalds Message:

You have a point, Jim. Maharaji is a lot more destructive than McDonald's, on a spiritual level. BUT McDonalds does sell shit food that has no nutritional value and people eat it and it's bad for them. Sort of reminds me of how Maharaji's brainwashing has no value, yet people swallow what he says even though it's bad for them. (Not sure how Speilberg fits in here, though) EV and McDonalds are two companies motivated purely by profit. Elan Vital is in it to make money for Maharaji. He doesn't care about giving people anything spiritual. Premies are consumers. Have you seen the full color catalog EV puts out?

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 08:07:17 (GMT) From: Crazy for The Lordy Email: None To: VP Subject: Premies are called customers in the catalogue. LOL Message:

lol...The devotees of the Lord of The Universe became customers!! Well, at least now he clarifies what HE 'is all about', finally. I wish I knew that in the 70s!! I would have saved LOTS of money. No, there is no reason to be angry ex-premies. We were the hippies...and maharaji was so, so ugly. That show what a cult can do to a person's perception; I thought he was a cute kid. I have a picture black and white where he is about 7, 8, I tell you, I found it few days a go and looked at it and noticed that his eyes TODAY look to me so evil...Is he as innocent as he wants to look? They started not too long ago to use the word customers...

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 16:18:05 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: BTW, I was with u all the way up 'til then (nt) Message:

dddddd

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 14:12:31 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Loaf Subject: Our culture is consumerism Message:

We (as people) need to find and celebrate our own culture, rather than being mesmerised by somebody elses. As such it matters little whether you are stunned by Speilberg, MacDonalds or Maharaji - in the long term you are merely a consumer. I agree (though I enjoy a great movie, I'll admit!) I often wonder what 'our culture' is, exactly. My ancestors had a culture that I am aware of, but it has been lost to modern times and technology. Some of that is for the better and some for the worse. I'm afraid sometimes that our main culture (at least here in the US) IS consumerism. Disney world is the big vacation draw. I know it's fun and based on fantasy and there is good in that for children. But there are other things to do that are more 'real' that are also fun--the seashore, a river, the mountains. Also, getting 'stuff' is a bigger agenda than doing stuff. (Beanie babies, pokemon cards, happy meal toys, etc.) It disturbs me to see ones so young getting so deeply entrenched in materialism. When I was younger, it was difficult to find 'meaning' in all of this consumer hype. I think that is part of what attracted me to Maharaji's teachings. I hope that somehow my chidren are able to find some real meaning in their lives within this culture (and despite it) without getting sucked into a false ideology. I know we as parents can contribute to that, but it would be nice to be surrounded by a community of people who had similar beliefs, which we aren't. VP fish in the cultural desert, sometimes

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 17:56:46 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: VP Subject: Our culture Message:

Hi VP, Yes, it is difficult to say what our culture is. Is it shared experiences or events? If you aren't watching 'Survivors' or 'I Want To Be A Millionaire,' which so many people are watching they have become national phenomena, are you missing out on a 'cultural event,' something that actually shapes and creates 'culture?' Some people say so.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 02:03:26 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Joe Subject: Jerry Springer and the Sopranos--ot Message:

I guess I am missing out on some culture--but that's okay with me. (Cultural rebel, I guess) Could not ever get into those shows. But so many do. One night, a friend of mine called here to ask me who the artist was who made California swimming pool paintings. I said, 'Oh, did you see an exhibit?' and he said, 'No, I'm just watching Who Wants to be a Millionaire!' He wanted the answer before the guy on the TV. I couldn't believe it. Don't forget Jerry Springer. I guess he's somewhat of an American cultural phenomenon, scary as that is. That show is like watching the elements of our culture that we can't/don't get to see. There is one very popular show that I do watch religiously--The Sopranos on HBO. Have you seen it? The concept, writing, acting, music, and directing are superb. And we have a couple of neighbors like Tony.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 16:57:02 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: VP Subject: It's David Hockney -- .... Message:

He's the artist who has so many paintings of swimming pools. Am I rich now? ::)) I have heard that the Sopranos is a great program, but I watch so little television that it made no sense for me to have cable, and I guess the Sopranos is on HBO or some other cable channel I don't get. So, know, that is another cultural event I am missing out on. Where I live, EVERYTHING is 'dot.com.' Every billboard, every side of every bus, every 'contributor' on the local NPR stations, everything. The 'dot.commers', youngish and a little disheveled, but driving BMWs and having no time to even talk, are also raising the average cost of a house in my neighborhood to about a million dollars, literally. Living in the center of the internet universe, I actually feel fairly ignorant and left out. That is a cultural phenomena I am not sure will last or not, but I sure don't feel a part of it.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 02:49:31 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Joe Subject: Is that your final answer??----ot... Message:

Hey, very good, Joe! And you didn't even have the benefit of seeing your other three choices-snicker! I heard that you guys are second highest price-wise in real estate in the nation now, after Boston. I was looking at 2,200 square foot homes in the Boston area for around 650,000. I couldn't believe it. My better half grew up in Walnut Creek. Do you know where that is? I was listening to the Motley Fool Radio show and a couple of computer industry experts were talking about the explosion of the dot com companies and how in the next several years, all but a certain number of the biggest boys on the block would fail. Thought of two more cultural phenomena tonight at dinner. We were having a meal at a nice place tonight, and this guy's cell phone rang. I couldn't believe the guy had it on or that he answered it! Someone in the theatre the other day was talking to the babysitter on theirs--during the film. And it's really strange to be in an aisle at a grocery store and hear someone talking to themselves, only to find out that they are on a cell phone! The second thing I thought of is a book--Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire sold three million copies it's first week. The second edition will be an over one million copy printing. That's a terrific series of books, if you haven't read them. I recommend the first story for adults, too. It's a lot of fun. Oops, this is reading like an e-mail Take Care, Joe

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 17:04:16 (GMT) From: Monmot Email: None To: Joe Subject: Perhaps They Should Be Called Dot.Commies? nt Message:

mmmmm

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 11:19:36 (GMT) From: Diz Email: None To: Loaf, Chr, Jim Subject: Cult mush Message:

Brilliant, Loaf! Yeah, it is insidious. I do know some people who I would otherwise consider honest who still go along with all the crap. How they manage the cognitive dissonance I don't know. I do remember as a premie the feeling of getting 'set straight' through listening to MJ. I think now that what happened was that between programs, I got out of the 'cult mush' and started to see and understand things from my own perspective. A good dose of MJ got me back in the cult groove. The idea that if K 'works', then the whole package must be okay is a powerful concept which works against PWKs really seeing what's what. If anything doesn't seem right, it's dismissed because it's not what MJ's 'about'. That's one reason why I think it's important to question not just the process of the cult, but also its content. The idea that only the internal experience has real value supports the belief structure which stops people asking questions. I'm so glad I'm not there any more. Diz PS How ya doing, Chr? Good to hear from you.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 01:09:06 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Diz Subject: Cult mush Message:

yes all that focus on the inner experience is the perfect set up for M the ultimate consumer to so as he wishes and never be questioned. He makes such fools of his lovers. Great to see your name here, Diz. How ya been? I must owe you an email from way way back.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 13:55:09 (GMT) From: chr Email: gwongarella@hotmail.com To: Diz Subject: renewing contact Message:

Hi Diz, How are you? We've gone through some big changes lately-moved cities. I've lost your email address and mine's changed. Can you email me on the above address?

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 19:13:01 (GMT) From: P-man Email: None To: Everyone Subject: This one you won't believe... Message:

Over on alt.cult.maharaji (Usenet), I've been carrying on a little discussion with some of the Guru's cult members. Somehow the talk turned to the child molestation that occured in Maharaji's cult. First some bozo claimed it never occurred, but that's been tried before. When I posted some quotes of people who experienced child abuse in Maharaji's cult and a link to ex-premie.org, another bozo cult member posted this precious gem... Jesus Christ lived among thieves and prostitutes because he said they needed him the most. Funny how what's always OK for past perfect masters is always taboo for the present masters. History just keeps repeating itself, and repeating itself, and ... How could I have been so silly to overlook this? Yes, Maharaji is indeed holy, just like Jesus. In fact, he may even be Jesus, and now, just like Jesus, he's living among thieves and prostitutes, who need him most. Oh well... call off the investigation.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 02:03:33 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: P-man Subject: Child Molesters vs. Thieves and Prostitutes Message:

I wonder how much of the prison myth is true in regards to Child Molesters being hated and despised by the general population? I'll bet there's plenty of truth in it. Point is that, yes, old J.C. had his followers of thieves and prostitutes, but would Christ really have had followers, nay, high priests who were active child molesters? And would Christ punish said despoiler by banning said child molester to some place like Soddom or Thailand? Remember, Jagdeo went away for awhile and that 'away' was the South Pacific or Thailand or somewhere.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 08:56:09 (GMT) From: salam Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au To: Roger eDrek Subject: Child Molesters vs. Thieves and Prostitutes Message:

What you are asking is true, I worked in one of the most notorious prisions in Australia, namely Long Bay, child molisters are assigned a special section of the prision, totally isolated with heavy security, the section is called protection area. Those special prisoners can not be taken from on part of the prison to another without beeing ascorted by an officer. If by mistake, (and it happened on a couple of occassion)they wonder in the main square, that is to say where all the other prisoners are, then their life is as long as someone figuring out who the child molister is, which is normally no more than 15 minutes, and he will be gone, offcourse it is a very high risk area to deal with both for both inmates and officers, because if this occures(that is a child molister wanders in the main), all officers in the unit are held accountable and an investigation takes place(bbbbbrrrrrrrrr). I hope this will give you an idea Salam

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 01:55:46 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Child Molesters vs. Thieves and Prostitutes Message:

As one who has spent a great deal of her 20 year legal career dealing with incarcerated people, I can assure you that child molesters are at the bottom rung of the prison hierarchy. So are the people who protect them. Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 03:13:43 (GMT) From: Monmot Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Child Molesters vs. Thieves and Prostitutes Message:

There's a play (made into a movie also) called 'Short Eyes,' written by Miguel Pinero. Short Eyes is/was the name for child molesters in prison. They are at the bottom of the food chain in prisons. Even if you were a serial killer with dozens of grizzly murders under your belt, you'd still rate higher than a Short Eyes. Pretty grim story. So, since Christ hung out with thieves and prostitutes because they needed him most, and M is considered the Christ of our time by some premies, does that make PAMs and PWKs thieves and prostitutes?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:47:43 (GMT) From: Ex-Prostitute Email: None To: Monmot Subject: PAMs Message:

The people around Maharaji are not all thieves. In fact, quite a number of them are getting robbed. But they are all prostitutes, not that they take money for sex, but in the other sense of being prostitutes. They will do just about anything they are asked or expected to do by Maharaji, just for the illusory 'gift' of being near him, being revered in Maharaji's organization, and for the ego-boost of being special in the eyes of the Lord. In that sense, they are all prostitutes. After being a prostitute for a number of years, you can understand a certain unwillingness to talk about it publicly. Would you?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 20:07:07 (GMT) From: Monmot Email: None To: Ex-Prostitute Subject: PAMs Message:

Certainly wouldn't want to talk about 'the life' either. I hooked for the Lord for close to a decade, but it got cold on them streets.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 23:55:56 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: P-man Subject: LOL...!!! :-) Message:

Suddenly it all ads up - the unmistakeable virtue of living among socially inadequate creeps. Jeez pleez forgive me for for failing to see heaven in the repulsive. Where do I go to renew my subscription?

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 19:25:04 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: P-man Subject: This one you won't believe... Message:

Christ! I have heard in bits of email that this stuff is coming up on the forum again and it really gets to my soul. What the fuck is that saying about history repeating itself ONLY if you don't learn the lessons from what has gone on before! It sures as hell isn't an excuse for it to continue! I can't believe that rationalization. What then would be the motive of spiritual pursuit! Jesus! Also, living among thieves and prostitues does not condon child abuse, I'd think the 2 are usually mutually exclusive. I have heard that even murderers in prision have to be kept away from child molesters because they would kill them. Sorry I have missed any progress on this front. I hope something is happening, progressing toward something, responsibility would be good. Robyn

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 14:36:45 (GMT) From: P-man Email: None To: Robyn Subject: This one you won't believe... Message:

The reason this subject is back in the limelight is because Elan Vital put out an FAQ on their web site. They addressed the Maharaji child molestation issue by feigning concern and defending Maharaji and Elan Vital. Not a big surprise but the FAQ is so poorly done it's almost a work of art.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:08:12 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: P-man Subject: This one you won't believe... Message:

Thanks pman could you or someone post the url for the FAQ? I will be away from a computer for days now, just stopping at a friend's on my way home. One last fix before I go deep into the wilderness. :) I would like to read it on a break when I go to work next Wed though. It's a tough life. :) Robyn

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:18:41 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Robyn Subject: This one you won't believe... Message:

Hi Robyn - Go to elanvital.org, and click on the link for FAQ. (You poor girl, not having computer access. I am quite envious.) Love, Katie

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 20:22:56 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Robyn, Katie et al. Subject: This one you won't believe... Message:

Here's the text of part of their FAQ's (and don't forget to check out the press kit FAQs) 'Has Elan Vital covered up alleged past improper behavior? Elan Vital’s policy is that everyone, whether a paid employee or volunteer, must behave with respect and decency. In this respect our guidelines are similar to those of any other responsible profit or not-for-profit organization. Elan Vital adheres to widely accepted practices in dealing with reasonable complaints made against any of our personnel, using established internal and external disciplinary procedures and, if necessary, in conjunction with relevant external legislation. We are aware that some opposing sites make allegations in particular against one individual concerning events alleged to have happened 25 years ago. This kind of behavior, if true, is completely unacceptable to Elan Vital and we would be as appalled as anyone if this was found to be true. The only information we have comes from postings on these sites. We were able to contact two individuals who made these allegations and asked that they help shed light on what happened but as yet have received no cooperation from them. As it stands Elan Vital has still received no direct information from any of the alleged victims and to date no complaint has been filed with Elan Vital or with any authorities.' .............................. I guess the 'widely accepted practices' they refer to are the widely practiced methods of 'sweeping it all under the carpet if at possible'. And don't you think words like 'our guidelines are similar to those of any other responsible profit or not-for-profit organization' are just so much candyfloss - where's the meaning in any of that? Just generalisations that give the impression of 'oh, we're just like the rest, so we must be OK' What a bunch of baloney-merchants.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:38:29 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: cq Subject: You are wrong: Maharaji is no boloney, he is Lard. Message:

Lard merchants. ;)

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 17:31:31 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: SB Subject: Lard of the Universe? Message:

Hi SB, We have an interesting dialect in the UK called 'Cockney rhyming slang' - and the slang for 'lie' (as in telling lies) is 'pork-pie', or 'porkies' for short. So 'Porkie' Pal Singh - who has no formal affiliation to Elan Vital (they just pay his bills) lets them say on his behalf that he 'never claimed to be God'. That is the biggest lie he could tell. No, I beg your pardon, the biggest lie was his claim to be the Almighty incarnate. So, the world's biggest liar (and do you think Shri Hans would be proud of him?) once said this: « …. But then comes service, because there's satsang, service and meditation. That's meditation, and then comes service. Now what is the part ? Why do we even need to do service ? I mean, where does service fit in ? And it's very fine. It's very beautiful, but very fine. Because the whole idea, the whole basis, is on surrender. And if we really and truly surrender ourselves, then what do we become ? We become a servant. And it's not a servant of Mr Joe Blow ; but it's servant of Lord, servant of Almighty. If we surrender ourselves, then we become servant, and when we become servant, then we can do service. And if we have realized, it just all fits, see ?' Excerpt of Guru Maharaj Ji's Satsang in Lisbon, Portugal, may 14, 1976. In « Elan Vital », published by Divine Light Mission, Denver, Colorado. Volume II Issue 2, Summer 1978 ......................................................... 'If we have realised' he says. Realised what? That he's not just another 'Joe Blow' like the rest of us? So, once again he's claiming divinity; he's claiming that 'Almighty', 'Lord' and 'Guru Maharaj Ji' mean the same thing. After all, the 'service' was done TO him and FOR his benefit. And EV say he never claimed this. What a bunch of pork-pie merchants. BTW, I hear you're looking for someone who speaks Spanish? Well, there's Michael - an ex-premie who's also a priest, (though he would probably describe himself the other way round!) - in Panama, who occasionally looks in on the Forum. He might be able to help if you ask him. He calls himself Padre Miguel. Why not start a thread asking him? P.S. Wish I could speak your language - I know a lot of Porky Pal's followers do. Are you having a difficult time over on the Spanish Forum?

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 19:35:48 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: cq Subject: Lard of the Universe? Maybe even less than that Message:

it would making look too importantL All the lard of the Universe!! hahahaha... Look, is all so clear, isn't? My mind was singing arti for days in my head because i went into another mini-depression about his friquing lies at Elan Vital's site, but: I'm not dead yet. I wont come back to his stinky feet ever again. I may need to continue paying my therapist to sort the confussion until I die...but that is final. IS A CULT!! Is all about devotion. You either become his servant or you haven't realize K, right? That is bad, very bad what he did and is doing to people. He is less than lard because some cook with it: He is 0. No use. The problem in El Foro is done: Zen is blocked. there was no problem, but he with others had a plan and it didn't work because I still have 'some' brain, some logic left, and it's getting better evreyday...Yes, there are horrible days, but don't all have them? Love your posts!! Love, S

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 19:42:07 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Hi, Robyn Message:

Butting in here to say, 'hello' because I know you have limited access to a computer these days. I would like to see your new place, it's right up my alley. Love, Gomez Adams P.S. I agree that Jagdeo should be held accountable and responsible for his actions.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 20:07:31 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: VP Subject: Hi, Robyn Message:

Dear Veep, Yes, I am totally frustrated with work so am getting a tiny bit into the forum. :) I wish you could come with your family for a visit to the hotel, after I'm done cleaning! :) Sure are enough beds! As much as I miss the people I am connected to on the net my life is full, happy and relaxing without it. Sure can get a lot done uninterupted by phones and emails! :) Also nice to have the pay phone if I need to make a call. Don't want to take away from the importance of this issue of child abuse and I hope that eventually something comes out of the truths that have come out here on that issue. My thanks to those brave women who have come forward with their stories. Love you as always, Morticia from the Adams Family Mansion :)

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 18:05:22 (GMT) From: Sir David Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: The sad story is all here Message:

It has to be told and it needs to be acknowledged. Perhaps this is just the tip of the iceberg but at least the truth is now coming out and DLM/Elan Vital will have to take responsibility. Child abuse in Maharaji's cult Systematic child abuse is a crime which causes lifelong damage to some people. It would appear that this went on for years and nothing was done about it. It cannot be ignored now.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 23:57:08 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Sir David Subject: thank you Sir David..(nt) Message:

gfhj

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 19:17:47 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Sir David Subject: The sad story is all here Message:

Dear Dave, I tried to go to the site about the abuse but it wouldn't go through but I'll try again later. Thanks for posting this though. I have realized since the story about Jwhatever and his disgusting abuse came out that it could not be an isolated few cases or even that he was the only one. This is a subject near to my heart as I lived it as a child in my family and I know how much damage it can cause to the adults those innocent precious children become. To happen in a 'spiritual' group is just to much, bad enough if it is in your family but to be looking for a connection to god and to have that motive hurt your children has the potential to make me lose it! Hope you are doing well dear. Love, Robyn

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 17:04:12 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: You simple premies never got to see this ! Message:

Here is a copy of my instructor's diploma and a picture of the participants in the same training session I've been : Some enlightended guys ! I thought I had lost this forever, and found them fixing a messy drawer ......

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 00:00:32 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Like TMers around Maharishi::::)-(nt) Message:

ty

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 22:36:39 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: bill Subject: Don't laugh - recently found out my brother-in- Message:

Don't laugh - recently found out my brother-in-law is still a 'real' TMer. And he's been my brother-in-law for about 15 years. Stonor

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 23:58:48 (GMT) From: Daneane Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Does that look good on your resume? Message:

Maybe under 'additional skills'?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 08:28:12 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Daneane Subject: LOL Message:

lol

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 22:43:44 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: You simple premies never got to see this ! Message:

Dear JM, How the heck are ya?! :) I have been trying to get into my email for hours and here I am at the only place I can really write an email! :( I have been wondering about your hat and worried since I haven't heard of it's arrival. Did you ever get it? Oh and about your picture, skip the arrow or additionally add a blow up pic of just you! Even with my glasses I was getting dizzy trying to find you. :) Love, Robyn

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 02:14:11 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Hey Robyn! Message:

Looks like your PC is again in a mess ........ Need some assistance? No news from my hat, but I guess it's never going to send me postcard from his trip ...... nor do I either .......

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 11:39:29 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Hey Robyn! Message:

Dear Jean-Michel, Shit, I am upset your hat hasn't arrived! Did you get it here or in France? My PC is fine, I think, it is unplugged at present, since my move, no phone or internet as of yet and I am/was at work where hotmail/msn is just screwing up! If you email me the details on the hat, if you can replace it, how much it would cost etc I will try to make it up to you. I think it was a scam when she said I couldn't insure it! Not really but maybe someone down the line knew it wasn't insured and I had to write what was in the package so maybe someone decided to keep it. Damn! Hope you are well otherwise. :) I know how much you liked the hat and I did think it looked good on you. Love, Robyn

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 13:35:34 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Hey Robyn! Message:

That's the kind of hat you can't find in the US, and I DON'T LIKE US hats !!! It's a real Australian hat .... I guess I'm going to be really detached from this world now that I've lost it! But I think you shouldn't worry: it takes about 1 month for that sort of parcel to get to here by boat :-)))

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:10:17 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Hey Robyn! Message:

Dear JM, Oh, I hope that is all it is, the boat ride! :) Please let me know if you do get it, if not I do have friends in Oz so keep that in mind! I don't like US hats either, never saw any that weren't until yours I guess. Love, Robyn

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 18:09:54 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: hey J-M, what do instructors do these days? Message:

hey J-M, what do instructors do these days? - just solicit donations?

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 21:52:06 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: cq Subject: hey J-M, what do instructors do these days? Message:

I don't know !!! But you can guess: taking care/having meetings with aspirants meetings with premies and EV's organizors showing the DVD validating the smartcards raising funds introducing the videos ........

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 17:51:11 (GMT) From: Loaf Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Which one were you JM ? (nt) Message:

Which one were you JMK ?

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 21:53:01 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Loaf Subject: Which one were you JM ? (nt) Message:

OK, I'll have to draw an arrow or something .......

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 03:36:51 (GMT) From: chr Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Question for JM re Essen program Message:

Jean-Michel, there was a program in Essen in Germany in the 70s, I forget which year. There were rumours about financial problems, indebtedness and even theft by a high ranking DLM official. It went to court, I think, and the premie blamed M and his extravagance and financial expectations. This was all rumour at the time. Do you know anything about it?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 07:23:48 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: chr Subject: I guess it was Dortmund Message:

DLM NEVER payed some of it's bills, and at least a French company went bankrupted (huge bill for all the tents rentals) because of this. That was Bernard Jaulin (renting tents etc), and I was the one who signed the contract for EV !!! They never went after me. I also heard that it took several years to EV Germany to pay for some of the bills ..... And EV's officials were proud of this sort of ... that 'nothing happened' in spite of the huge debts!!

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 15:59:07 (GMT) From: Zen Email: None To: Irene Subject: Irene you excuses in the Spanish forum . Message:

Will you make it in this? I don't lie.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 01:02:46 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Zen Subject: Zen was blocked from the Spanish forum: WHY isn't Message:

he here complaining and trashing me? The answer is obvious, isn't? A premie playing games.

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 21:25:18 (GMT) From: Another VP in Spain Email: None To: sb Subject: Zen was blocked from the Spanish forum: WHY isn't Message:

Mentirosa. Se escribe asir?

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:52:03 (GMT) From: The real VP Email: None To: FA-SB Subject: FA, SB, I didn't write the above post. Message:

Hi, SB Someone else used my name. I didn't write that post. I was out of town when it was written. It might have been a mistake, but I just wanted you to know that the message was not from me The real VP

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 06:02:24 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: VP Subject: Zen was blocked from the Spanish forum: WHY isn't Message:

mentiroso: Zen is a male, but you get an A, because you didn't know that. ;) The guy disappeared. I have good eyes to spot 'the weicked'. hahaha.... Hi VP. Are you a girl?

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 16:28:38 (GMT) From: Yoy ARE slow!! Email: None To: Zen Subject: Irene you excuses in the Spanish forum . Message:

Before I do that I give you few hours to read again all the mess you created, because by your attitude, I can see you still don't get how the Foro and deletion process functions. I told you what to do. Ask questions here, if you still think I am lying. Who are you fooling? You translated much, didn't you? Whay pretend that you don't speak English much, like you said bellow. You have just targetted me, to bother me: I think you are dishonest .YOU CAN understand English well; I have put too much of my time already on you and I don't see the reason to continue talking with you in the paranoid accusative mode you chose to use when talking to me. I want to know who you are and why you are telling me in emails that the forums look like a cult and that I should stop coming here so much, contradicting my therapist who as I said to you, encourages it! I don't work for you: You find your answers now! You call me a lier too many times!!

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 16:34:43 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: SB Subject: SB - it's liar, not lier (nt Message:

Having some problems,SB?

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 16:51:26 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Elaine Subject: Thanks Elaine Message:

I try bad to write well and I cannot hide I try. Thanks Elaine. :)

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 18:38:57 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: SB Subject: To SB Message:

SB Su Inles es fantastico! Most people who write English cannot spell words. You are doing well.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 18:57:12 (GMT) From: Zen Email: None To: VP Subject: To VP Message:

Thanks to a translator. only to write. English. I have never spoken to it or written. For surprising that seems you. The lies come out to the light at their time. As those of M. And those of SB will come out!!!To the lunatics to the psychiatric,SB. I will follow the fight against M from my web. Good bye!!!

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 19:05:09 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Zen Subject: To Zen Message:

I was not speaking to you OR about you. (no yo hablando con tu) Why are you saying goodbye? Porque? No intiendo! Por favor, escribes en espanol. Yo trataria leerlo.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 21:10:58 (GMT) From: Zen Email: None To: VP Subject: To VP Message:

If the other ones confirm me that you are a Former one. (and non alguién of Vital Elan) I will give You my mail and from there I will send you the copies of the email, correspondents and received of Irene. And your you will know.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 01:41:37 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Zen Subject: No quiero leer Message:

I do not want to read private e-mails that you got from Irene. They are none of my business. Also, I don't give my e-mail address on the forum. A few people here have it, but not everyone. I don't know you, so I don't think it's a good idea. Do you think whatever happened between you and Irene could be a misunderstanding? Es posible!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 09:33:07 (GMT) From: Zen Email: None To: VP Subject: No quiero leer Message:

When you wrote this message I had already written previously I am an idiot and a paranoid esquizofrenico. Ok? he looks at the date.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 15:42:33 (GMT) From: Irene Email: None To: Zen Subject: Quit taking all so seriously!! Message:

Quit acting like a kid. Premie Ji in disguise? pProve me wrong. You can't!! YOU ARE A GOSSIPER!( sOS UN CHUSMA)

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 13:21:09 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Zen Subject: No quiero leer Message:

I had not read that message yet. I was reading the threads in order--top to bottom. Understand?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 01:20:10 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Zen Subject: FA: ZEN, you have no right to do that, without my Message:

written permission. I told you in my email you didn't have my permission!! Brian? I know him personally and trust him, I can consider sharing all with HIM, since he mantains the site it would make more sense. I suggested that you to discuss with Brian the problem you had with the missing link you try to post on the Spanish Forum, since I tried to phone him, because of your PANIC, knowing he was at work. This matter that seems to be for you so important, and it's to, is not a big deal in other forms either, because mistakes are made; brian as I said to you by email, by mistake deleted most messages from all forums!! He recovered them. I was patient with you and at first I wrote all I knew, understanding your anger, feeling like somebody did it in purpose. Why would an ex-premie delete a beautiful link to a picture of Lord Guru Maharaji, at a Florida program, being carried and he is sitting in a trone, with all his Grace, shining for us, I was there! I want that picture to be shown, are you kidding me? I was trilled when finally came to the Spanish Forum, 'to help' me, poor soul, who was all by myself , talking about how good the Lord has been with me over the 25 years plus I was with him. In a serious note; Do you get the point? We were both online at the time, exchanging messages and emails at that time when the posts desappeared, AND I was surprised as was (the posts there speak for themselves!)because I honestly don'y know what happen to themAnd since then I have been attacked by you and you don't want to reason well but is willing to share my private mail with a stranger? This is not Spain, I remind you. Laws are different. Get advice! You have to prove to me you are not a premie, because I see your point now. You are posting trash in the Spanish form, lies, to put the only person who speak for the exes to the Spanish premies and exes and want to silence me. You better be prepared that whatever you do, will not be overlooked. I love justice just as you do, but in this one amogo, you are just plain wrong. About your english. You posted here the links to your spanish site, and befriended me. I trusted my email address to you and now what, you are an ex? Sorry. Doesn't seem like it! Time will speak. If you are lying and you were trying to play dirty, shame on you!! If now, after translating various pages from English to Spanish and I only had to correct few words (you did an excellent joB) how come you can't speak English well anymore?? I have to read yet the zzzzzzz(this is so, so boring, I was abused by a Guru, that is why came here for...)answers to my questions that I left to answer your threats and you calling me a lier. I bet you: You haven't checked with the administradors of the other forums to see that when you delete one post, the one that follow it go too! I bet you didn't. I'll see. And if you didn't is because you have no intentions on being fair, honest; you just want to bother me, because I'am a voice, pretty much the only voice for all Spanish speaking people interested in knowing who Maharaji is: The numbers don't lie. I must be saying something...oh, I forgot, you too! If I'm trying to HIDE something, if I'm lying deliberately, do you think I would come and ask Spanish speaking people to come and help me because you guys are talking weird stuff? Human nature goes that most people try to cover their mistakes, like Maharaji and Jagdeo, but me, why would I invite somebody impartial to come to the Foro and read? Not me, I am not that sick to lie on guffy guffy stuff like that, in fact, I hate liers, I always did, and lying is not one of my 'games'. The intense and aggressive personality I've displayed at times around here have always been defending justice and people may view me wrong, like I'm a mean person, but I'm not. I consider myself as a pretty fair person; I just like the truth of things, and you are confusing all. Tell me why, Zen? Why are you doing this? Your actions so far don't allow me to think other than that you are just another disturber, and you know that if you nail Irene, if you repeat and incite premies as Mr Hack and J.L.V. to talk weird about me, well, for how long can I be strong and stand it! If you are a premie I have news for you: Irene is not going anywhere, comprende?? Since than you began a campaign to scream all over the Spanish forum, in many threads that I had lied to you I asked you questions and never answered them. You are playing with fire and I think you already got burned. Prove me wrong.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 09:49:28 (GMT) From: Zen Email: None To: SB Subject: ZEN, you have no right to do that, without my Message:

If you know very Spanish, he rereads the email i sent you, and the one that your you sent me. You know that I am not. And my written in the Spanish forum it demonstrates it.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 15:40:36 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Zen Subject: HOW COME YOU CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH NOW??? Message:

Can you tell me? Contestame mis preguntas o para de hablarme. Y vete si no!! Translation) Answer my questions o stop talking to me.Scram!!(

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 02:22:51 (GMT) From: VA Email: None To: SB Subject: FA: ZEN, you have no right to do that, without my Message:

Don't worry, Irene. I don't have any interest in reading any e-mail you sent Zen. I thought Zen misunderstood something I said, and I was trying to clear it up with him. I think he also misunderstood that. Ah, the language barrier! Hope you are ok, VP

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 02:50:20 (GMT) From: Sb Email: None To: VA Subject: Thanks V, I'm ok Message:

I was honest as I could be with Zen and he slapped my face.... Oh well, maybe he takes my advice an re-reads all again and see how silly all was.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 22:02:24 (GMT) From: Zen Email: None To: Vp Subject: I am an idiot and a paranoid esquizofrenico. Ok? Message:

Those letters contain information personal. forgets the previous message VP. Good bye

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 01:24:14 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Zen Subject: I can give you another chance if.... Message:

you get honest, because all I write to you was in Spanish. How could you have not understood it except if you wanted to hurt me?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 10:07:14 (GMT) From: Zen Email: SB To: SB Subject: I can give you another chance if.... Message:

Do you want to speak? My nº of Telephone is 34 968 90 28 25. She doesn't scare me to say it in public. I don't have anything to hide, and to anybody that to already fear! And I already give the matter had finished. To say that that queraís of me. Give me same! You remember my time of idiot premi 'To not stay in the histories. . . '

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 15:45:22 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Zen Subject: No Engligsh noew, eh? You can translate .... Message:

english to spanish perfectly and you cannot write english. Yea, I'll call you later. Is going to be fun. I do have HUMOR. Do you?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 17:31:20 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: SB Subject: SB and Zen! Message:

Hi SB and Zen - I have tried to follow this argument both here and on the Spanish Forum, and I cannot really understand what it is about. Please keep that in mind while I say the following things. Here is what I think (or feel, as the case might be.) 1. I think both of you are ex-premies (in fact, I know so). But I think that you probably have different ideas about K, M, and premies. Very few EX-premies agree on their thoughts and feelings about these things - that is one thing that makes us NOT a cult. For example, SB and I disagree about some things on this forum 2. I do not understand what you are talking about when you talk about deleted posts. We have had a problem with the server lately where the CONTENT of posts (but not the TITLE) does not show up until hours and hours later. I don't know if Irene deleted posts, but if she said she did not, then I believe her. (I can tell you both that it is much easier for everyone if the FA uses the guidelines in the Forum Introduction when deciding what posts to delete!) 3. Brian is working very hard this week, is very tired, and does not want to mediate this problem. He did not do anything to the Spanish forum, as far as he knows. I hope you, SB and Zen, can work it out by telephone or e-mail. If you have a technical question, Brian can probably answer it, but if it is interpersonal, please do not expect him to be able to sort it out. 4. SB - I am better at translating French than at speaking it. I can read it much more easily than I can write it. So I understand why Zen could possibly do this too, with English. 5. I do not think that anyone on the English Forum understands what the problem is here! Take care, both of you - and I hope you work things out. Katie 5.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:08:36 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Katie Subject: SB and Zen! Message:

'Irene' did not deleted ANY post, get it? I did not!! And since when we disclose 'that' type of info to EVERYBODY? I thought we were suppose to help each other, and all my nicks/names, state where I live and later about SB and Irene....Fine. It must be a sign that I should not give a dam about that anymore. Thank you Jesus, I feel so much better now. SO, IRENE IS THE EDITOR OF THE SPANISH FORM!!!Ok, premies, all? And who cares? I just want to talk about what happened and is happening to MY head as a result of being a recovering cult member of DLM/Elan Vital/MAHARAJI/THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE/GOD ENCARNATED/ETC!!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:16:27 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: SB Subject: Hey SB Message:

I did not disclose and have not disclosed any of that information about you or Irene, OK? (I hope you weren't talking to me in the above post.) I hope you are all right - Take care, Love, Katie

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:34:45 (GMT) From: Zen Email: None To: Katie Subject: Hey SB Message:

(I hope you weren't talking to me in the above post.) on you?Never speak with you I don't want to continue speaking of the topic.(To those crazy-premies that we discuss among they adore him)

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 18:47:55 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Katie Subject: No Message:

Zen 'insinuated it' here and there, that is why I do not trust him now. I am very upset. I'll explain some other time. You can think what you want about Zen though, and you know that. I read his emails.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 10:12:28 (GMT) From: JtF Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The SPEAKER speaketh (sort of) Message:

In my last K review with Mr. rawat, I promised to stay in touch. So with that in mind, I went over to the Visions sight to view the broadcast schedule. There I found that for the most part everything will be a re-broadcast or collage of many events. I don't think this will go over for long with the cult members. The Speaker better get his ass out on the road and get to satsanging again. He needs inventory or this will not work.....lazy Speaker!

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 15:40:04 (GMT) From: Nostradummy Email: gErRy@ElWhacko.com To: JtF Subject: The Future, Clearly and Simply with Appreciation Message:

The Speaker is shape shifting into the CyberSpeaker (TM) The Speaker is winding up his gig; no more public appearances. Private audiences for those who can afford it will be made sporadically available, by his grace. Why risk another pie when you can stay behind the curtains and project yourself to the entire world digitally? No longer will the Speaker have to travel the world over, (he gets to keep the plane, though) and He can stay home and fuck Monica and snort cocaine whilst His divine image and voice bathes the entire planet. How perfect! How Twenty-first century! Now there will be much more time for the finer things in life: enjoying one of his many fine homes scattered around the world, cruising in his gorgeous huge new yacht, some pleasure flying in the G4, lots more time to devote to his 'investments,' fiddling around in his world class recording studio, or maybe adding to the collections, yeah that's always fun, flying in to check out a classic Bentley or Rolex. So premie ji's hate to have to tell you, but this is Phase Two: The Speaker retires from public appearances and by his grace, you will have the opportunity to experience this life, this breath, your appreciation and yes, with the new SmartCard (tm) your graditude digitally. Like it or leave. Personally, I recommend the later...

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Date: Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 06:06:48 (GMT) From: Nostramummy Email: None To: Nostradummy Subject: He gets to keep everything? Message:

Why? Why is it that he thinks he can do that? NOT FAIR

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 07:48:47 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Question about that Not Maharaji's Mixed Bag page Message:

at http://www.geocities.com/notmaharaji/Links/homepage.htm Are you aware that the link in the section called: 'Go to this site for porn, scandal and general filth. This shite should be banned! Why the hell haven't Elan Vital pulled the plug? If I was Rawat, I'd be too embarrased to!' actually takes you to a porn site at http://shemalegod.majorhost.com/index.html Is this a mistake, or done purposely? I don't get the message ......

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 08:36:48 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Question about that Not Maharaji's Mixed Bag page Message:

That's a mistake. Thanks for pointing that out. It was originally a link to Maharaji's re-done toilet web page with Roger's big boobed she-male God plus adoring Pinnochio. But it seems Elan Vital have got that taken off the net which means the link now goes to the domain server which has porn on it. I'll get that changed to something else. Maharaji's web cam perhaps.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 09:03:56 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: OK, now what about Roger's links ...... Message:

I'm going to offer you some unpublished copyrighted gory pictures of the maha Himself exposing his body !!! (in the 70s during one of the Holi in Miami or/and Marbella, Spain) Give me a few hours to scan them properly. Would you use them for the tits links and sex links? Premies exes and everybody will appreciate them I guess.....

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 09:39:36 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: OK, now what about Roger's links ...... Message:

That's ideal for my new Naturist Site which as you know, extols the virtues of nudity and showing the human body unclothed, as nature intended. I don't know if you get 'Health & Efficiency' in France but perhaps we could get Maharaji on the front cover one day.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 07:45:19 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Serenity: Is it m's new yacht's name? Any details? Message:

Pictures and any detail welcome !! What about the other one? Wadi Sue?

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 05:19:29 (GMT) From: tonette Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Anyone want to go to a chat room and talk? Message:

how about yahoo? Right here and now.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 05:44:19 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: tonette Subject: you could use Dave's chat Message:

http://www.paradise-web.com/plus_le/plus.mirage?who=forumlite The link to the chat is at the top of the page but no one is there. And I'm offline. Just borrowing time right now. oh, hi. i'm an ex. I think it's been 2.5 years now since I left the cult but it's been a wild and rocky ride and I have seriously lost track of time. But I do remember it was the 25 year 'Anniversary' celebration in Long Beach that was the final barf out for me!! So I suppose that was December of 97?

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 18:58:36 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Selene Subject: Final Barf out Message:

'Long Beach was the final barf out for me' Selene, You are so straight forward on this forum that I have serious trouble seeing you as a premie--ever. Not that I doubt you were, but you know what I mean.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 01:48:19 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: VP Subject: VP I sucked as a premie Message:

Never did 'surrender' enough. Just went along at first because of a man, my ex husband. Of course. Later out of habit and because all my so called friends were premies. but no I was a crummy premie and thanks for saying that. I consider it a complement.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 01:56:38 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Selene Subject: Selene it is a compliment -nt :) Message:

nt :)

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:46:23 (GMT) From: recent video watcher Email: None To: Everyone Subject: quote from m Message:

A great quote from m at one of his recent programs. 'Hey guys, you know what? I think blind faith sucks!' Thanks m for your new,updated view on faith. I seem to remember quite a different take on that subject in years past.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 02:16:45 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: recent video watcher Subject: It was always a double-bluff... Message:

..with blind faith the end point, once you have shaken off that stuff then come back to it. So smug we were: K is not about dogmatic belief systems but personal experience So much more common-sense than our Christian parents or Jewish elders or whatever. Hidebound, unreasonable. Limited. Maya - Kali Yuga - illusion ... But unless or until M can offer a reason or solid evidence why anyone should listen to him rather than the other x billion opinionated nobodies on this planet, may I suggest that blind faith is, as yet, his best bet. Say as little as poss, Hammy, keep turning the wheel and you might yet get away with it, for a while... We are watching.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 05:17:51 (GMT) From: arti afficianado Email: None To: recent video watcher Subject: quote from m Message:

Nice quote... I was wondering if anyone has ever put out a 'revised version' of arti?One that would reflect all the 'new' lingo and understandings? Stuff like 'You are my all,my SPEAKER to me'(not Lord anymore) or 'Our SPEAKER is the superior power in person' After all, we all want to be politically/spiritually correct in the new millenium,plug in, and be a vehicle for our SPEAKERS grace....

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 06:57:28 (GMT) From: Ex Arti Fun Email: None To: arti afficianado Subject: It's a good fun idea: Do it. Message:

Lets have a good laugh.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:22:37 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: netguest42@yahoo.com To: Everyone Subject: Let's focus - is the forum a bunch of hot gas? Message:

It's obvious and documented that M has done some bad things in the form of lies, psychological shit and the propagation of Elan Vital. What is the logical next step? I wish Marianne was here.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:43:11 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Tonette Subject: Let's focus - is the forum a bunch of hot gas? Message:

Tonette, Why don't you email Marianne and at your convenience. In the meantime, don't light any matches.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 05:00:30 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Jim Subject: Good one Jim! LMAO!!!!! nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:18:37 (GMT) From: Unity school ex Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Jagdeo's 'children's satsang' Message:

Dear forum posters-I have only learned abut Jagdeo's sexual abuse of children in the last 6 months or so.I do have something to add;although I didn't actually see him do anything,I do know that he did some of this stuff at the Unity School in Denver during the 1977-78 period. I was a teacher at that time,and devoted premie.I volunteered to be a camp counselor for the summer at the Unity School,as I had the time off from my regular teaching job, and was very interested in doing service at the school and learning more about the waldorf philosophy as well. I worked there for two summers. One day I learned that Jagdeo did special 'children satsangs' at the school.This seemed odd to me, and I questioned one of the other teachers about it. She replied that it was so beautiful that Jagdeo took such a special interest in children and regularly did these.He would get all the children in a room, turn off the lights,have them lie down in a circle,and tell them stories.He told them not to talk about it with others. The teacher told me it was 'kids satsang'. I felt this was very wierd,as I clearly remember that m gave a number of satsangs about how we should not tell kids what to believe.He used to say that adults always wanted to jam their beliefs down the throats of kids and that he didn't like it.I agreed with this, and remembered numerous times that he had talked about this, so when I heard about 'kids satsang' it immediately raised a red flag. I asked another teacher aboutthis, but they didn't know about it, and I gave up trying to find out more. But I will tell you this-it's quite likely that he was playing his games with the kids at Unity School in Denver in those days(late 70's) and there are probably kids from that era who were abused by him. It makes me sick to think of this. How can m stay silent about all this? These are the children of the people who gave their lives to him,lock,stock and barrel. If one of his kids were there,would he be so smug and silent? You sicken me,maharaji.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 23:04:16 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Unity school ex Subject: Damn....... Message:

That 'childrens satsang' and the 'turn the lights off' and 'kids in a circle' sounds like the same scheme Jagdeo used at Unity School in the UK whan Abi was there, and as she reported. This is really distressing. Do you have any contacts with anyone else who was there at the time who might be able to remember anything else? Thanks for the report. When I reads Abi's report, I had in the back of my mind a fear that the Denver Unity School may have provided victims for Jagdeo.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 19:39:25 (GMT) From: Ben Lurking Email: benlurken@aol.com To: Joe Subject: Damn....... Message:

Joe, I know of one active premie who had a child in the school at that time and have seen the childs posts on 'Enjoy...'. If I really pushed my brain I may be able to think of others - one of my last 'service' jobs was the construction of the school and I got to know a bunch of the people. I do remember the Principal was Brian McDermott.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 19:18:00 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Unity school ex Subject: Jagdeo's 'children's satsang' Message:

He used to say that adults always wanted to jam their beliefs down the throats of kids and that he didn't like it Of course he didn't like it--he didn't like the beliefs most adults have about pedophilia. He probably didn't want the adults telling children that what he was doing to them was WRONG.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 16:59:47 (GMT) From: TIPS Email: None To: Unity school ex Subject: Actions we can take Message:

Another thing to keep in mind concerning Mahatma Jagdeo, a 'minister' in the Church of Elan Vital under the rule of Guru Maharaji, is our right as ex-premies to keep informed of Guru Maharaji's programs and notify the proper authorities in each City and State of the possibility (no matter how remote) of the presence of a known international pedophile at these programs. For instance, if Guru Maharaji were to hold a program at the Radisson Hotel in Miami Beach, Florida one would contact the following: 1. Radisson - Hotel Security 2. Radisson - Hotel Event Management (Preferably the supervisor of the event co-ordinator) 3. Miami Beach Police Department 4. FDLE - Florida Department of Law Enforcement – Crimes Against Minors Division The details should be kept succinct and to the point: 1. A description of Mahatma Jagdeo 2. Calendar Years and Cities where ‘known’ incidents occurred 3. A description of Guru Maharaji (former Lord and Master of Mahatma Jagdeo when the incidents occurred.) 4. Hotel Security will want to know what age range Mahatma Jagdeo targets thus giving them time to notify their guests whose children may be in danger as well as keep an eye on the Elan Vital event for the whereabouts of Jagdeo. 5. Law Enforcement entities will want your name and also will need to know that the incidents were never prosecuted. However, most Law Enforcement entities are pro-victim particularly when it comes to crimes against children and understand the victims intimidation in light of the Church of Elan Vitals actions of covering up & denying the crimes and protection of the pedophile by the Church and it's leader Guru Maharaji.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 00:31:38 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: TIPS Subject: can you type up the handout we need for the auth.. Message:

authorities. Or at least what you think it should look like. You have a great way of writing.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 05:58:16 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: bill Subject: can you type up the handout we need for the auth.. Message:

I think TIPS jist DID type it up. if it need more business letter embellishment, there are form letters all over monster.com etc. to copy from. also, TIPS don't let me steal your thunder here. If you want to pursue this please do! But I have watched this sit here for a few days and I too thought what you wrote logical and so obvious yet somewhat passed over in the day to day forum posts. THANK YOU for the matter of fact statements. and, if someone needs it put in a more rouded letter and TIPS is not into it I'll be happy to do it. I just don't know who to send it to or what is organized here. I have seen quite a few posts from a couple people who often mention they are attorneys. Is that where it should go? If not I can help.

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 06:03:47 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: bill and TIPS Subject: and ps to bill, TIPS, whoever Message:

For what it is worth TIPS I saved you post. If anyone wants me to do anything with it, my address if readily available. Bill I know you have it. Hope I am not being too abrupt. Sometimes I get frustrated with this stuff when I see something so simple that seems like it would be a good course of action and appeast to get lost.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 08:04:04 (GMT) From: AJW Email: anthginn@yahoo.com To: Unity school ex Subject: Please... Message:

...could you email me. I'd like to talk to you about this offline if you don't mind. Thanks Anth Ginn (Ex-Unity School UK)

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 05:29:54 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Unity school ex Subject: Jagdeo's 'children's satsang' Message:

thank you so much for posting this. If you read Abi's post it is damn similar to how the abuse began with her. Thank you so much.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 05:12:04 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: netguest42@yahoo.com To: Unity school ex Subject: Do the right thing Message:

Last I heard Jagdeo is alive and well(unfortunately) Please consider Jim and don't be afraid to protect other children. Leave an e-mail or some way for us to contact you. It may very well be that some or many of his victims come to call on you. If that happens I will stand by you 100%! I feel very strongly about this. A child molester is the lowest form of life whether connected and condoned by Maharaji or your next door neighbor. Please be courageous if hopefully this monster gets punished. We will all stand behind and with you!

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:36:03 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Unity school ex Subject: Wow! Message:

Thanks for telling us this. This is quite significant, not just as further circumstantial proof that Jagdeo was likely molesting kids but also as an indicator of how vulnerable we all were to exploitation by our cult 'superiors'. Really, it's probably just good luck that these kids didn't suffer the same fate as some of the Hare Krishna kids in their cult school (see Monkey on a Stick). Your report is so important, I wonder, would you mind putting your name on it? The reason I ask is that, as you can see by EV's recent FAQ dealing with this issue, they're doing all they can to call complainants and witnesses liars. Well, I mean, big surprise, huh? Who are a bunch of lowly mortals to try to steer Maharaji's ship off course? So please, think about it. This just MIGHT be that last straw that forces a proper accounting from the cult. Or, as that might not ever happen, the gesture might help some other premies finally see who they're involved with. Thanks again.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 00:03:41 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sir David, add this to your site..(nt) Message:

dsfg

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 10:28:36 (GMT) From: Jethro Email: None To: Jim Subject: It's ok to lie for the lord Message:

As Susan said above this is very similar to Abi's story and Denver IS the other side of the Atlantic. I must have imagimed that Ron Geaves said that he had seen reports from both sides of the Atlantic and because of their indepenecence he belieeved that Jagdeo was in it up to his neck.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:31:25 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Unity school ex Subject: I cry when I think about this Message:

This is the worst sort of sin. Listen guys- ex's and premies, victims and knowledgeable informants. Time for Jadgeo and those who hide these hideous acts to come forward. Time for action and the truth be told to the world. We have a moral obligation.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 03:43:38 (GMT) From: SB asking for Help!! Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Does anybody here speaks Spanish?? Message:

The FoRO needs some TLC from a Spanish speaking person. Premies come and (not that I believe it) laugh at me because I'm so mad at Maharaji, all by myself...Yes, Irene and SB are one. Poor brainwashed tortured soul, me...and premies go there and tell me to scram. Scram where? I have no place to go! He fucked my head up so good... Now I even have Zen turned on me, 'an ex' behind my ass...there. I'm on my own...sniff...sniff...premiesarebadmeanpeople....sniff Hey Jim, if it wasn't that I learn few things from you, I'll be frying.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 17:03:19 (GMT) From: Amigo Email: None To: SB asking for Help!! Subject: Does anybody here speaks Spanish?? Message:

Si! I speak Spanish. I was sent by the Lard to Spain and South. America in the 70's. I've often wondered how all those people I helped program are doing. The last time I saw most of the Latin premies I had known for years was in the early eighties when they were coming to programs in Miami and I was visibly defaulting from the party line, and I got a lot of intense disapproval. I sometimes can't believe that people are still into the whole trip, having been out for 16 years. When I hear that so-and-so is still serving the Mirage I am dumbstruck. Yet I imagine if anyone is likely to still be loyally brainwashed, it is some of those Spanish and South American premies, because there was always much less questioning in DLM (or MLD) down there. On the other hand I don't think the premies down there went thru the ghastly treatment that we experienced in North America... but what do I know. The ashrams were a lot more fun to live in down there and in Spain than in the U.S. and England. (I'm a four-country ex-ashram premie). Anyway, hablo espanol bastante bien (traduje al ex-Senor) y hasta se escribir y todo. Como te puedo ayudar? Que te estan diciendo? Let me know. I don't have time to read the whole thing here, but I would enjoy a little anonymous action with some soon-to-be-ex latin premies.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 18:19:03 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: SB asking for Help!! Subject: Does anybody here speaks Spanish?? Message:

I can ask them where the public restroom is and tell them what I like to eat and what color my cats are. (un gato es gris, el otro es negro) If you teach me how to say, 'You don't know what you are talking about, premie. You are in a cult.' I can come over and help you! Take Care, VP

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 06:27:24 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: VP Subject: Does anybody here speaks Spanish?? Message:

Are you kidding? I was not. WoW. It's my karma... The Rotten Vegetables Satsang can explain it. All the bad things that are happening to me is because I became an ex. HOW mean can Maharajichi be to say that!! One excuse is that he was young: MAHARAJI, YOU AIN'T A KID ANYMORE, CAN YOU TALK NOW WITH US?? That's all I want, to talk to him fece to face. What are my chances? LOL My idea was that some spanish-speaking ex who never posted here amybe read my message...Premies are dense. If you teach me how to say, 'You don't know what you are talking about, premie. You are in a cult.' I can come over and help you! Formal: Usted no sabe de lo que esta hablando, premie Ji. (lol) Usted esta en un culto. Casual: No sabes lo que estas hablando, devoto/premie. Estas en un culto. I do not know much about de usage of tu/usted of all spanish-speaking countries, for example, Spain. Some use vos, instead of tu, which it would be a more familiar way to call someone. And there are others that I think I just forgot...Haven't though about it for a long time. To this point, it seems that saying anything would be fine: Nobody there is doing much reasoning anyway; they can, but they don't want to. They want to know about me....screw that. Lets talk about the Lord I had for 25 years instead... Hey, thanks for your support. Love, SB

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 13:32:47 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: SB Subject: English is lacking Message:

In English we don't have familiar 'you' and formal 'you' (tu y usted), nor do we use masculine and feminine 'the'and 'a' (el, la, un, una) We also don't have a plural 'you'(ustedes) except for in slang like 'you guys' or 'y'all' You probably already know this, though. I was trying to translate part of one of Zen's messages on babelfish. It translated the word 'premie'. (I can't remember what it said premie was.) I'm practicing up: 'No sabes lo que estas hablando, devoto/premie. Estas en un culto.' LOL ja ja ja ja ja!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 16:06:05 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: VP Subject: Devoto=devotee Message:

Practice and come over once in a while. If you want to say something there you can write it, not too long (not too much time, I'm in my break, eating and typing LOL) and I can translate it. LOL T Too funny the world of Guru Maharaji!! Well, not always...

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 14:23:01 (GMT) From: Zen Email: None To: VP Subject: Pedazo de tortillera, o mariconte Ver Pijo. Message:

Llamándome premie me insultas. Me faltas al respeto. Acaso no serás un premie infiltrado de EV? Y que mejor que sea uno que ya conocen los demás. Que te den por el culo seas quien seas. Tu rie, que ya llorarás. Recuérdalo! (Is not 'amenazitin'), jajajajaajajaja. Tonto del culo. Jajajaja. Estaba prácticando. Jajaajajajaja

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 03:23:55 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Zen Subject: I tried Message:

Bien, intenté leer su poste, pero no podía a leerlo. Me he olvidado de mucho de mi vocabulario español. Si usted usa algunas palabras simples, puedo entender. No yo un premie, para su informacion. Hasta la vista! VP

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 13:35:18 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: SB Subject: 'el premie' translates 'it awards'--nt Message:

on babelfish translations website

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 17:08:51 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: VP Subject: that happens to me too, veep! (ot) Message:

I was trying to read the spanish forum using babelfish to make some sense out of all this, and was confounded by the 'it awards' (of course, I finally figured out what it was, because it was used so frequently!) Also, it does NOT translate idioms very well, if at all. BTW, impressed by your command of Spanish, VP! I can read (but not speak) a little French, and thus Spanish completely confuses me. My niece has been in Spanish immersion since first grade, so I may have to call on her for help - snicker. TC (and I do not think Zen is talking to you below) Katie

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 03:10:40 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Katie Subject: Espanol es facil, Katie-ot Message:

Katie, (Spanish is easy, Katie) At least compared to English. Everything makes sense, words are spelled the way that they sound, accents fall in the same place in each word, etc. If the place of an accent changes, they give you an accent mark. Very logical, Spanish. Thanks for what you said about my Spanish. In college we had to speak all Spanish in class-no English--and the profesores spoke all Spanish, too. Learn quick or fail! Since then, I haven't used it much. Spanish is supposed to be replacing English as 'THE' International language within the next ten years, according to the news, so I want to get back in practice with it. When most teachers teach language, it's very proper and formal-- not much like real conversation. (like you said, colloquisms) I think that is why babelfish and I are having a difficult time with Zen's posts on the spanish forum. (I can follow SB fairly well) I think I know what happened with them, but it took two days to decipher it. You are lucky you know French. That language is very sexy!

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:12:06 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: VP Subject: Practice? Reason to go there more often... Message:

then. Yo make sense. I read what you wrote. ;)

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 14:35:20 (GMT) From: Zenando Email: None To: VP Subject: Your that believe ? you are frank? Not! Message:

I read you very well, so well that it is easier than to see one excrement!!! Your that you say? I use translator to write. To write not well built sentences. Good bye Premi Ji.

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 03:47:45 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: Zenando Subject: Soy un ex Message:

Es muy dificil para entender usted. Es imposible en Ingles o en Espanol. El translator no es bueno para escribando mesajes. Hay muchos errores. Puedo dice esto, no soy Premie Ji. Soy un ex, intiendo? Mi nombre no es Frank, tambien!

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Date: Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:31:47 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: VP Subject: Well... Message:

there I can tell that you didn't get an A. LOL Mi nombre no es Frank, tambien! Mi nombre no es Frank, tampoco, no tambien. I help you prepare for the needs of the new millenieum.... Cuanto hace que sos ex-premie? Cuando tomaste el conocimiento? Cuando dejaste al gordo malo? That's is your home work. We can do two o tres frases a day. What you say?

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 03:39:17 (GMT) From: VP Email: None To: SB Subject: La Tarea (homework) Message:

Tambien, tampoco...I was close, no? I did get A's in Spanish. American schools are easy-- LOL! Sure, I will take you up on it, but we have to do it on the Spanish forum after this. NO laughing, either: Yo no era un devoto del mal hombre gordo (Maharaji). Usted está sorprendido? Tengo miembros de mi familia que estan devotos (premies). Un amigo de mi fue un premie, y este persona es muerte.(como se dice ' he commited suicide'?) Para veinte y cinco anos, no yo este seguro si Maharaji fue una persona mortal o God (como se dice God?) Yo pense (para veinte y cinco anos) este 'knowledge' fue una cosa fantastico! Yo quiera tener knowledge. Así pues, no puedo contestar a sus preguntas. (Tarea)

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 13:26:25 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: VP Subject: La Tarea (homework) Message:

That is pretty good!! Tambien, tampoco...I was close, no? I did get A's in Spanish. American schools are easy-- LOL! Very close and yes, they are too easy, well, except the geology class I took and the teacher was such an ass that wanted us to learn ALL the content of the big thick book: I dropped or I was going to throw it on his head!! LOL Sure, I will take you up on it, but we have to do it on the Spanish forum after this. NO laughing, either: What do you mean, this is the last time we do this here? Fine, let's do it there, Lets do it short too, right. Time management...lol Yo no era un devoto del mal hombre gordo (Maharaji). Usted está sorprendido? Tengo miembros de mi familia que estan (son)devotos (premies). Un amigo de mi fue un premie, y este persona es muerte.(como se dice ' he commited suicide'?) Un amigo mio que era premie y ahora esta muerto. Se suicido. Not bad at all! Para veinte y cinco anos, no yo este seguro si Maharaji fue una persona mortal o God (como se dice God?) Yo pense (para veinte y cinco anos) este 'knowledge' fue una cosa fantastico! Yo quiera tener knowledge. Para escribir la ñ presiona la tecla Alt y 164. Correction: Por veinticinco año, no estaba seguro si Maharaji era una persona mortal o Dios. Yo pense por veinticinco años que este Conocimiento era una cosa fantastica. Yo queria tener (?) el Conocimiento. What did you want to say with: Yo quiera tener K? Escribelo en ingles. Not an A in this one; I give you a B. LOL Así pues, no puedo contestar a sus preguntas. (Tarea)

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Date: Sat, Jul 15, 2000 at 03:42:57 (GMT) From: Senor VP Email: None To: VP Subject: SB--ot Message:

By anos, I mean years, not anuses. I couldn't find the tilde to put over the 'n'. For twenty five years or For twenty five anuses--LOL!!

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Date: Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 03:43:00 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Senor VP Subject: LOL anos hahahaha Message:

Alt164 (of num) makes a ñ. I used to play chess in a site and because I didn't know how to make the ñ everytime people asked my age I wrote, ... anios. LOL

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Date: Thurs, Jul 13, 2000 at 16:09:05 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Zenando Subject: Why not good english NOW? (nt) ROFL!!! Message:

no english???

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 04:14:17 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: SB asking for Help!! Subject: I wish I did but 'no hablo espanol' nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 03:49:50 (GMT) From: San Pedro Email: None To: SB asking for Help!! Subject: Does anybody here speak Spanish?? Message:

yo hablo espanol. como estoy? et tu? muy bien, no? con Me Senor. Me Senor es mas grande amore. NO? Si.. hoy, yo hablo amore por te.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 03:53:02 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: San Pedro Subject: Now A translator is needed...more problems...LOL Message:

these premies...One family; hard to believe.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 12:14:59 (GMT) From: Zen Email: None To: SB Subject: Now A translator is needed...more problems...LOL Message:

My turned one you with you is for your ethics lack. not for those premies. 'but, the end justifies the means.' Sorry my english

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 13:59:50 (GMT) From: Zen Email: None To: Zen Subject: Is not about YOUR english, but your motives, Zen Message:

Now you got me confused and I do not know who you are anymore. You know English enough to translate and make a web site but you can't talk here...Whatever, in the Foro you speak very, or too straight for me. If you want me to know you and trust you, you must help me. First, stopping the accussations and blaming on me for everything that happens in The Foro! And the emails too! I don't know who all you guys are, but obviously you are mad at the United States for unjustices that suppossedly were done to your countries, and you guys come to attack me, the only regular in the spanish foro, making ME responsible fro Pinochet, the CIA and FBI. Give me a fucking break, all of you, would you???? If you need attention, go some place else, but you must stop the bullshit. You must stop writting emails saying that I'm 'TOO MUCH INTO THE EXES...' and is a group or cult on itself. You guys are trying to drive me nuts there, talking with codes, and if you don't stop that, I will have the administrador delete all the crap you guys post there. Why I am saying, you guys? J.L.V. included in his last message YOUR REAL NAME: How does he knows that? Am I stupid? NO!!!! I may have an intense personality and I'm still dealing with the after-cult disease, but I understand what I read very well. You MUST begin to speak honestly and straight y you want me to take YOU seriously!! Masks off, please. S SB

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 14:56:57 (GMT) From: Zen Email: None To: Zen Subject: Is not about YOUR english, but your motives, Zen Message:

'Am I stupid?' Yes in my html web in Cod. Font appears my name!!!!!!!!! I don't take Masks. I don't care to give my name in the Spanish forum neither in this. My name is: José Lorenzo Cano. Murcia (Spain) Because he doesn't speak with me Brian that knows Spanish and he translates it to the forum. Here? I am a ex one. And Brian can read what I have written to see if I am ex. Ok?

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 16:56:17 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Zen Subject: yes, but Brian haven't read the emails you sent me Message:

Do you care to address the points of my messages to you? How come you translated so well all the pages that I hardly had to correct much, and here, you speak so weird...Just a question. If at the end I'm wrong, I will appologize. Explain what I asked you. Now I'm leaving because I must bring food to my table, unlike other so called gurus, who sit on their asses and get fat, because all he does really is eat and drink, so go the rumors... Just get hinest, would you??

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 14:19:10 (GMT) From: What is your deal, ZEN? Email: None To: Zen Subject: Why did you SEND ME my message to you? Message:

More games? Stop it!

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 14:36:51 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: What is your deal, ZEN? Subject: You are a premie, eh? Message:

A very strange one, but who knows your motives, not me. I just blocked you on my email account, until you reveal more about your inconsistencies. You are giving wight to 'things' that don't have any. I'm not in judgement on the forums: THE LORD MAHARAJI, THE SUPREME POWER IN PERSON IS!!! Stop playing mind games with me!!

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 15:18:18 (GMT) From: Zen Email: None To: SB Subject: You are a premie, eh? Message:

You are sick and you give bad fame to the ex one. That Brian reads, or who knows Spanish. I tell you in this forum and before all liar. If it was it rewards she/he would say what I know about tí. Until your nº of Tlf. Sew that I won't make.

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 16:30:57 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Zen Subject: My opinion? Premie, written all over Message:

if you are not a premie, begin acting like an ex. You sure don't do it. The word Honor is not in your vocabulary!!

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Date: Wed, Jul 12, 2000 at 12:21:19 (GMT) From: Zen Email: None To: Irene Subject: Now A translator is needed...Not scram Message:

Not justifies!!! but, not scram, please!

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