Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sun, Sep 10, 2000 at 19:08:00 (GMT)
From: Sep 02, 2000 To: Sep 09, 2000 Page: 4 Of: 5


who cares? -:- Daily affirmations -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:31:50 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- I'm not sure gerry but the last lines ..... -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:40:32 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- I used those last lines in that post below! -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:00:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ who cares -:- I used those last lines in that post below! -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:17:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- this is strange huh? I posted anonymously -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:57:10 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- Nice one John nt -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:40:21 (GMT)
__ __ JohnT -:- Not this John (nt) -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:06:30 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Hal, do you know this person? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:14:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ one who cares -:- Hal, do you know this person? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:35:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- Guessing game-- Elaine? nt -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:46:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Inspector Morse -:- I agree -- It's the New, Improved ERECT Elaine -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:54:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ someone else -:- Extremely SEXIST remark. -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:44:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- Who said Elaine's a Woman? (nt) -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:35:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Inspector Morse -:- Actually Elaine Said It About Herself -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:01:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ someone else -:- BULLSHIT -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:09:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ another -:- BULLSHIT, elaine, man maybe -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:37:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Inspector Morse -:- Well, I Guess You're The Moron Who Saw It -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:14:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Hercule Piroit -:- I agree -- It's the New, Improved ERECT Elaine -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:05:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- In context it was a pun on homo-erectus I think nt -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:27:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ who cares -:- WRONG but what a cheap shot at Elaine! -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:22:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- You don't like it here then go . nt -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:38:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Inspector Morse -:- Daneane??? Say It's Not True... -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:25:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ who CARES -:- no, WRONG AGAIN! -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:35:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- I'm a bit Confused -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:53:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ who cares -:- I wonder if I know you, have'nt a clue by the name -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:22:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- I wonder if I know you, have'nt a clue by the name -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:34:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- I Finally Figured Out Who You Are.... -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:52:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- How sad -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:43:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Look how Jim uses logic to fight the evil m-pire! -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:38:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Jim, you are the one who is a sad case of a bully -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:03:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ who cares -:- Thanks for the good luck wishes! You too! nt -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:48:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- Who cares?.... -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:47:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- Why so secretive about your identity ? nt -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:44:24 (GMT)

Stonor -:- Ideas worth considering - from cq -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 15:29:29 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- See how I only get flamed if I'm off topic! -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:10:39 (GMT)
__ Lotus Eater -:- To ex or not to ex -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:49:57 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- eesh I have that to look forward to soon! -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:08:24 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- Stonor, why are you here again? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 18:02:36 (GMT)
__ __ who cares -:- Stonor, why are you here again? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:34:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Ok I'll break one of my own rules -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:00:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- hey who were the premie women? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:52:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- hey who were the premie women? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:05:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- I can't believe it! Miahaela -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:14:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ (one)Who cares -:- Ok I'll break one of my own rules -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:17:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Hi, who cares -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 20:00:40 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- A agree with you: He/She doesn't belong here -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:20:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ who cares -:- Fuck your(all of your)in group/out group bullshiT! -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:37:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SBe gone -:- Well, thanks darling. Same to you! -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:25:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ who cares -:- Did not say Fuck You...said Fuck the bullshit! nt -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:39:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Fuk Yu Tu -:- Fuck you too -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:42:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- FUK Yu Tu San, MY Favorite Man -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:43:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ sb -:- making it look like i post it? BS -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:31:19 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- What do you mean 'again'? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 18:54:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- What do you mean 'again'? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:20:39 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- Now she's on her high horse at recent exes too -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 18:17:22 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- What's it matter to you anyway, Stonor? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 17:55:26 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- What's it matter to you anyway, Jim? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 18:02:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Nice try, Stonor but that wasn't the question -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 18:12:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Nice try, Stonor but that wasn't the question -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 18:50:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Okay, let's take the next step -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:47:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Okay, let's take a BIG step -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:41:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Okay, let's take the next step -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:26:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Amazing! (No one should miss THIS ) -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:44:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Amazing! Jim jumps on every opportunity! -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:22:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Ha, you did it again! -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 15:25:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ whoever -:- Well said Stonor! nt -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 07:58:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ all -:- LEAVE -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:22:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ who cares -:- LEAVE OOOOH scary, someone is very touchy! -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:41:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Who are you -- oh who cares nt -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:45:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ who cares -:- Right, of course you don't! -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:12:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- some of what you say I agree with -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:04:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ one who cares/who cares! -:- some of what you say I agree with -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:26:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- yeah I know the feeling real good :) -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:34:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Right, of course you don't! -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:24:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ who cares -:- Right, of course you don't! -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:07:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Thank you -- God bless nt -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:17:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ one who cares -:- God bless you too -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:46:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ and everything -:- Who DARES speak for all? (nt) -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:28:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Nice try, Stonor but that wasn't the question -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:00:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Jim, Gerry, Hal, before anyone mentions the words -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:25:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Here's some 'abuse', cq -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 15:21:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Calling my opinion 'absurd' IS abusive, Jim ... -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 20:31:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Further absurdity, Chris? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:30:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Twisting words again, Jim? -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:46:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Calling my opinion 'absurd' IS abusive, Jim ... -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 20:46:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Calling an ashram a 'prison' is a bit 'absurd' IMO -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:59:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Hey G, you did some 'time' in an ashram ... -:- Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:12:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ hacker -:- Jim says the magic word! -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:43:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- whoever said verbal abuse had to be unsubtle? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:32:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Sorry cq, but in the Forum Intro it says .... -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 07:26:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- e-motion ----Energy in motion. nt -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:08:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Chris, please reread the thread -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:34:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Chris, please reread the thread -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:27:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Chris, please reread the thread -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 20:17:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Chris, please reread the thread -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 20:42:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Chris, at the risk of being abusive... -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 20:57:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- censorship -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:10:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ who cares -:- censorship -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:20:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- thanks (nt) -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:35:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Who Cares -:- Contrary, to the point, here and now -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:49:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Are you Runamuck? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:02:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Who cares -:- Are you Runamuck? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:32:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Are you Runamuck? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:03:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ who cares -:- Are you Runamuck? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:11:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Well I'm not the one on ten psychiatric meds... -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:28:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- Well I'm not the one on ten psychiatric meds... -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 00:10:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings Oliver -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:48:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings Oliver -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:43:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings Oliver -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:08:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- Paranoia -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 22:16:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Paranoia strikes again. -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:18:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- I'm impressed with the new civil gerry ! -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:07:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- I'll go with Elaine - -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:50:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ hal -:- next guess Kieth - Am I there yet ? nt -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:12:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Michael -:- Maybe it is Cynthia NT -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:05:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- that's what I was thinking -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:58:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- Hi Selene -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 00:16:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- hi Oliver -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:28:38 (GMT)

bookbuyer -:- can you explain the amtext connection to maharaji? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:45:32 (GMT)
__ an ex-buyer -:- can you explain the amtext connection to maharaji? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 07:28:31 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- The next page will be the Biscayne Blvd connection -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 07:06:16 (GMT)
__ __ DV -:- The next page will be the Biscayne Blvd connection -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 13:38:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- About the Biscayne Blvd connection -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 14:48:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- some posts -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 17:06:25 (GMT)
__ Bookbuyer -:- Joey-can you answer the post above this? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:48:00 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Chuck, Amtext and Motivation. -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 05:49:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- search on Amtext -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 16:21:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- Text Mart -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 15:42:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- Previous posts re Amtext -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 15:51:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Previous posts re Amtext -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:17:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Previous posts re Amtext -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:31:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Previous posts re Amtext -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:47:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Is Tim Gallway in it too. -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 14:28:52 (GMT)

Jim -:- Here's an idea -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 02:08:51 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Could be part of the devotional song page -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 08:48:59 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Here's an idea -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 03:40:31 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Here's an idea -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:10:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ Rob -:- Here's a job for you. -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:25:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry the sicko -:- Always wanted to 'interface with functional teams' -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:33:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Wanted:- A participant -:- that can participate in find participants. -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 05:55:48 (GMT)
__ Shroomananda -:- Here's another idea -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 02:58:28 (GMT)
__ __ Rob -:- (sniff, sniff) What's that smell? Oh, hi shroomie! -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:04:34 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- At least I have a forehead, Shroom -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 03:09:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I'm a college graduate, Jim. I was at UC Berkeley -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:51:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- I think you are a hoax (nt) -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:28:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- also thinks shroom' is a hoax -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:13:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- another reason -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:36:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Good. Now think back to them days, will ya'? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 17:59:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- You want to have a dialogue about Maharaji? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:36:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Speaking for myself -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:07:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Yes -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:48:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- You received it, didn't you, Hal? As Maharaji has -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:06:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Knowledge on tap -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:43:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- You really are something else, Rob. I don't get -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 00:58:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- And you really are the same as the rest -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:00:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- You received it, didn't you, Hal? As Maharaji has -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:34:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- You want a label for it? Want to put it in a box? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:53:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Please follow through with this, Shroom -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:22:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Look, Jim. If you want to call it 'hocus pocus' -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:17:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Look, Jim. If you want to call it 'hocus pocus' -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:46:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I've taken superficiality to a sublime level? You -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:57:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Why not try ? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:00:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Yes, they do, Hal. Before Knowledge, I prayed -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:13:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- A question -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:17:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I don't know, Jerry. Why don't you ask him? But -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:35:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- 'Nothing' -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:17:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Yes, they do, Hal. Before Knowledge, I prayed -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:48:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Yeah, well, Knowledge is addressing a fundamental -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:51:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- he walks the walk ? -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:31:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- 2001 -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:30:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Jerry you're probably one of the few... -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:54:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- I wouldn't go that far -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 21:10:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Well Jerry -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 22:05:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- What comet or planet are you from? Honestly, -:- Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:11:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- The source of what? -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:19:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- On tattoing. -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 06:14:26 (GMT)
__ TD -:- Pictures don't lie - it should be on the homepage! -:- Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 02:50:33 (GMT)


Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:31:50 (GMT)
From: who cares?
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Daily affirmations
Message:
Subject: Daily Affirmations

As I let go of my feelings of guilt,
I can get in touch with my Inner Sociopath.

I have the power to channel my
imagination into ever-soaring levels
of suspicion and paranoia.

I assume full responsibility for my
actions, except the ones that are
someone else's fault.

I no longer need to punish, deceive
or compromise myself. Unless, of
course, I want to stay employed.

In some cultures, what I do would be
considered normal.

Having control over myself is nearly
as good as having control over others.

My intuition nearly makes up for my
lack of good judgment.

I honor my personality flaws, for without them I would have no
personality
at all.

Joan of Arc heard voices too.

I am grateful that I am not as
judgmental as all those censorious,
self-righteous people around me.

I need not suffer in silence while I can still moan, whimper and
complain.

As I learn the innermost secrets of
the people around me, they reward
me in many ways to keep me quiet.

When someone hurts me, forgiveness is
cheaper than a lawsuit. But not nearly
as gratifying.

The first step is to say nice things
about myself. The second, to do nice
things for myself. The third, to find
someone to buy me nice things.

As I learn to trust the universe, I no
longer need to carry a gun.

All of me is beautiful and valuable, even the ugly, stupid, and
disgusting parts.

I am at one with my duality.

Blessed are the flexible, for they can tie themselves into knots.

I will strive to live each day as if it
were my 40th birthday.

Only a lack of imagination saves me
from immobilizing myself with imaginary fears.

I honor and express all facets of my
being, regardless of state and local laws.

Today I will gladly share my
experience and advice, for there are
no sweeter words than 'I told you so.'

False hope is nicer than no hope at all.

A good scapegoat is nearly as
welcome as a solution to the problem.

Just for today, I will not sit in my
living room all day watching TV.
Instead I will move my TV into the bedroom.

Who can I blame for my own problems?
Give me just a minute... I'll find someone.

Why should I waste my time reliving
the past when I can spend it worrying
about the future?

The complete lack of evidence is the
surest sign that the conspiracy is working.

I am learning that criticism is not
nearly as effective as sabotage.

Becoming aware of my character
defects leads me to the next step --
blaming my parents.

To have a successful relationship
I must learn to make it look like I'm
giving as much as I'm getting.

I am willing to make the mistakes if
someone else is willing to learn from them.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:40:32 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I'm not sure gerry but the last lines .....
Message:
I am willing to make the mistakes if someone else is willing to learn from them were used in a recent post. I thought that post was from John T but actually it was from some anonymous poster Stonors credo in my Stonor ? thread.

What's happening to this forum gerry ? It certainly is becoming fragmented .

Kind regards, Hal

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:00:51 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: I used those last lines in that post below!
Message:
I received them as a joke in email. I won't say from who because it may that that 'who cares' is that person, as the email I received had that entire joke in it. Still I don't feel right tellng who I got the email from because I thought I liked him/her. But these posts are not like this person usually is. They are much more abrasive.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:17:58 (GMT)
From: who cares
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I used those last lines in that post below!
Message:
Sorry Selene. It is me, thanks for keeping anonymity for me. I was very upset and I came her and a new persona just jumped into the fracas. If you care we can do private email.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:57:10 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: who cares
Subject: this is strange huh? I posted anonymously
Message:
last night , 3 times and couldn't STAND it any longer so I gave and told who I was :)
as I said, if you want to email it's fine but I am very busy with phone calls travel arrangements, etc. It's easier to post a quick post here but I'll try to answer. I hvae received a LOT of email, very supportive and kind.
It made me have a new better attitude about this place as I had been feeling really down over a few conflicts I had here.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:40:21 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: who cares?
Subject: Nice one John nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:06:30 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Not this John (nt)
Message:
no text
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:14:47 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Hal, do you know this person?
Message:
Who is it?

Funny how whenever the forum settles into a calm, rational tone, the same people leap in to whip things up. It is very distracting and leaves the threads in disjointed, angry jumbles. But that's the point, correct? Take the heat off goober and cult and create emnity amongst ex-premies.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:35:51 (GMT)
From: one who cares
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Hal, do you know this person?
Message:
You have reached a very strange conclusion and are impying an intent on my part to throw the Forum into chaos. How absurd!

I rarely visit here anymore, though I was very active at one time and another.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:46:14 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: one who cares
Subject: Guessing game-- Elaine? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:54:01 (GMT)
From: Inspector Morse
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: I agree -- It's the New, Improved ERECT Elaine
Message:
She was, and is, one crappy premie...
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:44:03 (GMT)
From: someone else
Email: None
To: Inspector Morse
Subject: Extremely SEXIST remark.
Message:
So let's see, a woman who says she stands up for herself has a penis? Regardless of how you feel about her attitude, that is demeaning towards woman, saying that they have no right to be assertive. You sound like an immature man who's afraid of such women.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:35:01 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: someone else
Subject: Who said Elaine's a Woman? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:01:30 (GMT)
From: Inspector Morse
Email: None
To: someone else
Subject: Actually Elaine Said It About Herself
Message:
I was alluding to Gerry's Queen Elaine post:

.... I made no excuses and did whatever I wanted -- no one crossed me ---ever. Some may see this as ego --others will see it for what it is - the facts.

Stand tall and erect and go...

So, no, I didn't mean it the way you interpreted it.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:09:57 (GMT)
From: someone else
Email: None
To: Inspector Morse
Subject: BULLSHIT
Message:
Any moron could see the sexist implication. You're just backing off because you're being called on it.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:37:05 (GMT)
From: another
Email: None
To: someone else
Subject: BULLSHIT, elaine, man maybe
Message:
who knows?

Believe in Santa too?

Silly sexist bully

love men

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:14:35 (GMT)
From: Inspector Morse
Email: None
To: someone else
Subject: Well, I Guess You're The Moron Who Saw It
Message:
and I'm not backing off. I was alluding to Elaine's stand tall and erect and go telling remark. Nothing wrong with being erect, is there?
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:05:35 (GMT)
From: Hercule Piroit
Email: Icant even spellmyown name and myfrenchsucks.com
To: Inspector Morse
Subject: I agree -- It's the New, Improved ERECT Elaine
Message:
You use your little grey cells very well, mon ami.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:27:28 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Hercule Piroit
Subject: In context it was a pun on homo-erectus I think nt
Message:
Check out LaF
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:22:11 (GMT)
From: who cares
Email: None
To: Hercule Piroit
Subject: WRONG but what a cheap shot at Elaine!
Message:
How dare you pass your judgement of an individual in this way! You have provided a perfect example of why I am pissed, and here to condemn the condemnors for your lack of social skills and rude abusive attacks on individuals!
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:38:24 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: who cares
Subject: You don't like it here then go . nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:25:27 (GMT)
From: Inspector Morse
Email: None
To: who cares
Subject: Daneane??? Say It's Not True...
Message:
mmm
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:35:09 (GMT)
From: who CARES
Email: None
To: Inspector Morse
Subject: no, WRONG AGAIN!
Message:
I needed to have instant communication and I came where I thought I could get it, one way or another. Thankyou all for your responses to ME.

I choose to protect my identity for several reasons:
1)I have already exposed myself way too much in this public forum
2)I have dear friends who I do not want to further allienate: some are premies and some are ex's
3)I want to make an impression on people and have my ideas heard with hopes that some will be appreciated, for the greater good
4)my feelings are hurt when my posts are ignored
5)I don't want to be pre-judged by people who don't even really know who I am

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:53:34 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: who CARES
Subject: I'm a bit Confused
Message:
Dear WC, you said:

I needed to have instant communication and I came where I thought I could get it, one way or another. Thankyou all for your responses to ME.

You sound like you're upset because no one responded to the real you, but we don't know who you are.

1)I have already exposed myself way too much in this public forum
2)I have dear friends who I do not want to further allienate: some are premies and some are ex's
3)I want to make an impression on people and have my ideas heard with hopes that some will be appreciated, for the greater good
4)my feelings are hurt when my posts are ignored

I can certainly understand each of your points. As to no. 3, sometimes you may make an impression and you don't, or won't, know you have. I know I've read posts which have touched me, but I don't always respond, either because I have nothing to add or because of time constraints.

As to no. 4, again I understand, but again you don't really know if they're being ignored. It may feel like that, but that is not necessarily the case. It's hard to tell in cyberspace what the hell is going on. Even if you don't get a written response, it doesn't mean you're being ignored.

5)I don't want to be pre-judged by people who don't even really know who I am.

I wholeheartedly agree. I don't even like to be judged by people who DO know who I am. But I feel as if there's a bit of a mixed message here, because I don't know who you are, and I assume the rest of the forum doesn't either (except Selene), so right now you're getting some heat because you're obviously pissed because people are judging you, or have judged you, but we don't know who you are (well, at least I don't).

I can only hope you feel somewhat better now that you've vented. Are the above reasons why you're pissed now? If I may ask, that is.

Thanks
M

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:22:12 (GMT)
From: who cares
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: I wonder if I know you, have'nt a clue by the name
Message:
I need a place where I can talk to people who share some of the same basic experiences I have had. Sometimes, I can't find or don't want to bother, a real-life, in time, friend to talk to. I was feeling this, then when I came here and read a few things and again found the devisive derisive bullshit,and I felt again how pitiful I was to expect to find something here....so I just jumped into an argument I supported and found a new persona. Worked for me. My mood changed and I found that there are people here who understand what I am saying.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:34:09 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: who cares
Subject: I wonder if I know you, have'nt a clue by the name
Message:
WC:

Since I don't know your real name and you don't know mine, both of us don't know if we know each other. I've made contact with people from the forum who know my 'real' name, but by private email. I've always posted under 'Monmot' on the forum, so unless we've emailed each other, you probably wouldn't know me.

My main point before, though, was that if I were you, I wouldn't take it personally if your posts are 'ignored.' I put quotes on that primarily because, like I said before, you never really know how much you are, or have, 'touched' someone with something you've said. I can empathize with how you're feeling, but I've spent a long time in therapy learning not to take this world personally. I know it's hard not to, but the alternative is to chop your liver so much you become human pate.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:52:51 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: WC
Subject: I Finally Figured Out Who You Are....
Message:
but it's up to you to reveal yourself, not me. And no, we don't know each other. Nonetheless, I still think you might feel better if you don't take non-responses personally.

Thanks
M

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:43:00 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: who CARES
Subject: How sad
Message:
What you're saying, basically, is that you're afraid to stand by your earlier activity here. You need to wear a mask -- a new mask -- so no one associates you with your previous posts. AND you need to be anonymous because you can't share your real opinions with your friends, premies or exes, because you're afraid of alienating them too. Your posts were ignored in the past and, apparently, when they weren't they were criticised.

Yet, somehow, you want to be heard?

Good luck!

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:38:42 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Look how Jim uses logic to fight the evil m-pire!
Message:
and read the preceding posts to get the full benefit of his lofty wisdom.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:03:57 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, you are the one who is a sad case of a bully
Message:
You are so unbelievably callous! Even after all I've seen of your 'work', this truly disgusts me.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:48:20 (GMT)
From: who cares
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks for the good luck wishes! You too! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:47:10 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: who cares
Subject: Who cares?....
Message:
...I do and if you want to e-mail me today you are welcome:)
My responces may not be immediate, as I do have things to do, but I'll keep an eye out for any mail.
Love, Oliver
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:44:24 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: one who cares
Subject: Why so secretive about your identity ? nt
Message:
ghj
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 15:29:29 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Ideas worth considering - from cq
Message:
cq wrote:

At the end of the day, the purpose of ex-premie.org is to inform people who might otherwise be misled (by the Maha's and EV's current spin-doctoring) about the scam that is Maharaji's propagation of 'Knowledge'. If they're put off from reading the site by the attitude/content of the Forum posters, then perhaps it's time for ex-premie.org and the Forum to become separate entities.

That way, there'd be no confusion about whether the posts on the Forum represent ex-premie.org or not.

SOME bias on the site is bound to be evident. But, IMO the Forum sometimes makes it seem like the only choice is between being a pro-Maharaji and a rabid anti. There should be room for some middle ground on this, especially when dealing with current premies who have started to doubt the whole trip. Aren't THEY who this site is for too?

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:10:39 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Some
Subject: See how I only get flamed if I'm off topic!
Message:
and how almost no one here ever was on topic!
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:49:57 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: To ex or not to ex
Message:
It might be a small grubby indian devotional cult but it has the same mechanism as the large ones like catholicism or that other one that comedians fear to make jokes about - islam.

Personally, I think we are all doing incredibly well, after all, we haven't started a holy war have we - no, I have noticed a lot of patient humorous talking to premies but no call to arms!

When the penny drops, that Maharaji is NOT God and never has been, well you get Ex status, much more comfortable, but that doesn't make you rabid for god's sake, and what are you going to be anti? the premies? well you were one not so long ago, so it would be like being against yourself.

This does not stop me, however, from saying my piece: I think it is repellent the way Mr Rawatt keeps on strutting his stuff, the kindest thing you could say is that he is unaware of the damage he is inflicting on others in the name of him having a good time, but i don't believe he is unaware, grubby little man.

I actually hope that those of us who lent him an ear will be able to laugh him off the stage of public life, all of us, those who are still premies at the moment, as well.

Imagine, imagine a world where there's no religion, it would be a much kinder saner place would it not.

I attended a funeral yesterday, a catholic service, the priest seemed to think that because Wes was baptised his body was a temple for the holy spirit and he was now going to God with the help of a bit of holy water and incense, of course anybody who hasn't been baptised......Oy Veh, what a world we live in! Lesley

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:08:24 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater
Subject: eesh I have that to look forward to soon!
Message:
attended a funeral yesterday, a catholic service, the priest seemed to think that because Wes was baptised his body was a temple for the holy spirit and he was now going to God with the help of a bit of holy water and incense, of course anybody who hasn't been baptised......Oy Veh, what a world we live in!

ain't it the truth :) Like what you said about the cult LE

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 18:02:36 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Stonor, why are you here again?
Message:
Well, you are not an ex-premie after all. You seem determined to dictate policy, tell others how they should act and little here seems to suit your fancy.

Actually I'm starting to suspect your motives. You seem to me to be stirring up a lot of shit and contributing very little. You have no personal experience with the cult as far as I can tell and yet you have an opinion on most everything and everybody.

Now you are attacking Hal. I don't get it. What is you want from us ex-premies? I've noticed you've said you are 'searching for community' yet you seem unwilling to accept people as they are and indeed seem to want to force change to meet your expectations. You are becoming a problem, IMO.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:34:57 (GMT)
From: who cares
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Stonor, why are you here again?
Message:
Gerry...you have little experience of the cult either. Except for what you gained posthumously by being here! I agree with Stonor.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:00:18 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: who cares
Subject: Ok I'll break one of my own rules
Message:
and respond to an anonymous coward.

I re'd Nollidge in Cleveland after being rejected in Harrisburg.
Shortly after that, I moved into a premie house. At the time, there was intense pressure to move into an ashram, which I did, in Harrisburg, Pa.

After some months there under a tyrannical and finally, psychotic ashram leader, I moved with a group of premies to Pittsburg and we fixed up a large house on Squirrel Hill for an ashram. While there, I sold my half of a car my brother and I had co-owned for years (a 1940 Buick) to finance a trip to Guru Puja in England at Ally Pally. I was instrumental in fixing up the house in Pittsburg and split when that was completed and hitchhiked to SF.

I stayed for several weeks in the 'Castro Astro' premie house and moved to Lake Tahoe because there was employment available there. In Tahoe I lived in a premie house and left early fall to travel with three premie women to Arizona, where I lived in a premie house in Tucson before leaving to help prepare for the Millenium festival in Houston. I was one of the first people ensconced in the old Coca Cola plant and helped build the grandiose stage.

After the big letdown in Texas, I rode the freight trains back to Houston, spent a night in jail and hitchhiked back to my hometown in PA. I was sick of the whole scene and avoided the premies there. Gradually the programming fell away and I rejoined the rest of the world.

It was an intense and fast trip through the cult. I consider myself lucky not to have had to live through the excesses of the next several years. I hope this establishes my cult credentials to your satisfaction, Anonymous Coward.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:52:51 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: hey who were the premie women?
Message:
email if you would rather put it here. I think I remember something. Sorry to take away from this thread but I got curious.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:05:56 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: hey who were the premie women?
Message:
Hi Selene,

Michaela Poole, a women named Marianne (who stayed in San Diego) and another whose name escapes me. She had a daughter whose name was 'Jessica Light.' I'd love to hear from or about Michaela. Know any of them?

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:14:50 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I can't believe it! Miahaela
Message:
Michaela actually stayed at our house for quite some time.
I saw her at one of the last Long beaches, she seems to be doing well, she looked great.
Small world.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:17:26 (GMT)
From: (one)Who cares
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Ok I'll break one of my own rules
Message:
I knew most of this, but it wasn't a bad thing for you, was it? Not until you decided to call it bad by coming here? Why have you become so fervently anti? I think it has nothing to do with your 'bad' experiences as a premie, and more to do with your new identity here.

I am not John or Runamok. Nobody cares who I am.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 20:00:40 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: (one)Who cares
Subject: Hi, who cares
Message:
I think I know who you are, though I will not out you, and I do like this side of you quite a bit.

Take care -
Katie

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:20:54 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: A agree with you: He/She doesn't belong here
Message:
I am sick of him/her. Why this NOICE coming from this person allowed here. I don't get it.

Vote her/he out!!

Hi gerry, friend! ;)

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:37:51 (GMT)
From: who cares
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Fuck your(all of your)in group/out group bullshiT!
Message:
NT !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:25:13 (GMT)
From: SBe gone
Email: None
To: who cares
Subject: Well, thanks darling. Same to you!
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:39:46 (GMT)
From: who cares
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Did not say Fuck You...said Fuck the bullshit! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:42:12 (GMT)
From: Fuk Yu Tu
Email: None
To: who cares
Subject: Fuck you too
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 06:43:51 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Fuk Yu Tu
Subject: FUK Yu Tu San, MY Favorite Man
Message:
Where have you been grasshopper?
Shroom is back, must have managed to pull his head out of his ass.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:31:19 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: Fuk Yu Tu
Subject: making it look like i post it? BS
Message:
ass
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 18:54:54 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: What do you mean 'again'?
Message:
As to the rest, you are entitled to your perceptions and judgements. As I asked Jim, why are you attacking me rather than the comments and issues that cq mentions in his post?

I want the same things as cq and Lurkex, I believe, with regards to this forum.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:20:39 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: What do you mean 'again'?
Message:
By 'again' I mean could you repeat (sorry I know you dislike repeating yourself) why you are here? How did Rawat personally hurt you? This was never clear to me.

As to cq's idea of separating the forum from the ex-premie website, no, I don't think it is a good idea. The forum is an integral part of the website, IMO.

Certainly there is a place for people here who are questioning their involvement with the cult and yes this site is for them also.

Now I've answered you can you answer me? Why are you here and why are you attacking Hal and why are you so bent on changing things here? Really, what business is it of yours? How did Rawat 'personally hurt' you?

PS I tried very hard to be civil and NOT sound like I'm attacking you. The fact that you perceive this as 'attacking' tells me you have an exceptional definition of 'attacking.'

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 18:17:22 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Now she's on her high horse at recent exes too
Message:
I'm outa there. Why does she want to go on recent exes forum or here ? What does she have to contribute? Fuck all. She just enjoys playing some kind of teacher role. Makes me feel like getting really abusive !

I'm not saying that someone who has not been a premie or aspirant doesn't have a valid contribution but what the hell does she do here. Just stir up trouble IMO.

Hal

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 17:55:26 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: What's it matter to you anyway, Stonor?
Message:
Don't you have something better to do than wrap yourself up in a historic fight that never involved you in the first place? I mean, like, really, what's any of this to you? You seem like the quintessential busybody in this respect. Do you see that?
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 18:02:45 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What's it matter to you anyway, Jim?
Message:
Yes, I know how you see me.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 18:12:05 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Nice try, Stonor but that wasn't the question
Message:
I wasn't asking if you knew that I saw you as a busybody here. I was asking if you saw why you might seem that way. Well? Do you?

And what about the first question? Why you, here, now, Stonor, ex-premies, Maharaji ..... why?

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 18:50:32 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Nice try, Stonor but that wasn't the question
Message:
Yes, I can understand why I might see that way to you, and probably some others as well, Jim. I can't help how people choose to see me.

I have explained why I came here, and why I am still here, many times. Please understand that I don't have the time to rewrite all of this everytime my presence here is challenged for some reason. Some of it is in a post still on this page, I believe.

Forgive me for wondering why you still haven't responded to the comments or ideas cq posted, but have chosen instead to start questioning me.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:47:07 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Okay, let's take the next step
Message:
Yes, I can understand why I might see that way to you, and probably some others as well, Jim.

I'd have hoped you'd expound a bit without baby-step prompting but, alas ....

WHY, Stonor? WHY might others see you as a [what'd I call you? Shit, now I have to go look it up again] ...Oh yeah, 'busybody'. Tell us, Stonor, why you think others might see you as a busybody. And then tell us why they -- and I -- would be wrong. Please.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:41:53 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Okay, let's take a BIG step
Message:
Can you discuss the issue, or must you continue to the 'bully dance' of changing the topic and attacking anyone who threatens to expose you? Give me more time and I'll really spell it out for you. But you might be wiser to do some research yourself.

Embittered by an abusive upbringing, seething with resentment, irritated by others' failure to fulfil his or her superior sense of entitlement, and fueled by anger resulting from rejection, the serial bully displays an obsessive, compulsive and self-gratifying urge to displace their uncontrolled aggression onto others whilst exhibiting an apparent lack of insight into their behaviour and its effect on people around them. Jealousy and envy motivate the bully to identify a competent and popular individual who is then controlled and subjugated through projection of the bully's own inadequacy and incompetence. When the target asserts their right not to be bullied, a paranoid fear of exposure compels the bully to perceive that person as a threat and hence neutralise and dispose of them as quickly as possible. Once a person has been eliminated there's an interval of between 2 days and 2 weeks before the bully chooses another target and the cycle starts again.

From Bully Online

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:26:16 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Okay, let's take the next step
Message:
Sure I can see why ... (forgive the metaphor, but it's the first one that came to mind) I'm sure that the Nazi's saw my father, and other 'freedom fighters', especially the King of Denmark, as 'busybodies'. If I worried too much about what others thought of me I would have killed myself long ago.

Now, when are you going to respond to cq's post?

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:44:41 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Amazing! (No one should miss THIS )
Message:
Stonor,

My jaw dropped on this one.

Please, who are the Nazi's in this case? What vile crimes are they perpetrating and against what victims? And you, Stonor, how are you a 'freedom fighter'?

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:22:58 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Amazing! Jim jumps on every opportunity!
Message:
The Nazis are some of the biggest 'bullies' that are still around. They thought they were doing 'the right thing' and damn any other human being that came in the way. I've been jumping back and forth trying to respond to some of these posts. I don't like bullying, and haven't since as a child I flung myself between my father and younger sister, looking him in the eyes daring - him to go at me before he could get at my younger sister. Was I a 'busybody' then too, Jim? Get the connection? Or is analogy one of your weak points?
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 15:25:03 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Ha, you did it again!
Message:
Stonor,

Once again you've offered a stupid analogy. It sounds like your father was doing something worse than criticizing your sister's arguments, such as they were.

Yeah, I understand analogies. Do you? Apparently not.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 07:58:42 (GMT)
From: whoever
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Well said Stonor! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:22:58 (GMT)
From: all
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: LEAVE
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:41:50 (GMT)
From: who cares
Email: None
To: all
Subject: LEAVE OOOOH scary, someone is very touchy!
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:45:23 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: who cares
Subject: Who are you -- oh who cares nt
Message:
be brave and identify yourself. Remember the forum rules !
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:12:23 (GMT)
From: who cares
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Right, of course you don't!
Message:
This is the place people like to play the blame game to the extreme, so really I don't care if I get censured, cause it is a lousy place to hang out anyway! I used to CARE about people here, many who continually return. But if people always do what they've always done, they'll always get what they've always got!

Look at your history to learn from it, then pitch it and live life in the present! Everyone is responsible for their own lives and experience of it.

There is no great mission here to save souls/minds/lives from the greedy grasp of a guru. Other people's lives are none of your business! (If you need help sorting out your past experiences and future directions, there are better places to get that help, by far!)

This forum has a life of it's own: it has become like a body and being made up of all the egos joined together who agree with each other. All you who would banish the ideas contrary to yours are merely acting out of self-preservation for your new body/mind and it's great MISSION! This body-made-of-blame represents one part of what is wrong with people in this world.

(This is not meant for the casual reader or the non-committed. No offense to gentles intended.)

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:04:28 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: who cares
Subject: some of what you say I agree with
Message:
Regarding the dymanics and grouthink that sometimes happen here.
But when someone has been disruptive they get challenged. This isn't coming from nothing but I have seen it building for months.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:26:11 (GMT)
From: one who cares/who cares!
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: some of what you say I agree with
Message:
Since I haven't been here for months, or more than a couple of minutes, I don't know what has been building. Perhaps I am an agent of stirring things up because they need to be! I am being used by unknown hands. I am not myself but it made me feel better to get tough. Surely you know the feeling!
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:34:21 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: one who cares/who cares!
Subject: yeah I know the feeling real good :)
Message:
email me if you want. I'm kind of distracted right now with my mom and all but I'll try to write.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:24:23 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: who cares
Subject: Right, of course you don't!
Message:
Sorry ,

I'm not at your level of understanding yet. I wonder if you could explain in more simple terms what your gripe is ?

This discussion is a result of a few months worth of conversation between forum participants. I don't know if you are a person who contributes here under another name or read regularly or not.

What is it that you object to ? Surely not abuse as you just said fuck you all etc.

I do like to know who I'm communicating with, so please clarify if you have participated here using another name.

Hal

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:07:43 (GMT)
From: who cares
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Right, of course you don't!
Message:
Sorry, abuse is a much misunderstood and overused word. I used to participate here a lot but not much recently. I don't know you, if your name is real.

I was/am only responding to the current thread in which I have written/ am writing, but I have a lot of experience with the kinds of posts that Stonor was referring to and the ideas surounding who should and shouldn't post here and why. I think this place is way too full of judgment and blame amd unkind words and (what I call ) attacks in various forms, including ridicule of persons or ideas different (than the rigid party line) of the most vociferous among you.

As Stonor alluded to:the explanation of purpose of the ex-premie org site does seem to propose a wider acceptance of various viewpoints than those that are only anti MJ or anti-spiritual. It says 'Anything and Everything about Maharaji and his followers' yet only the bad stuff is accepted as the right stuff to talk about here! Why is that?

It cannot be a true 'forum' for discussion unless you are willing to read through a lot of defensive and aggressive crap, and put up with alot of very poor social skills from people; and then if you do persist to engage with them, it sometimes wears off on you. I used to never swear except in humor or if I hit my finger with a hammer or something(but I also don't consider what I said to be abusive to anyone just because I used a swear word.) My gripe is simply the stupid divisions that people keep making between themselves and the hornery way they often do it, hurting feelings or excluding. That human behavior truly sucks and deserves swearing at! Fuck IT! There is a difference between what we do and who we are; and between who we are and who we say we are, too!

People write things to each other here that they would never say in real life, face-to face. Or if they did, they would probably avoid that person the rest of their lives! I have met Gerry and he seems a nice guy. But appearances can be decieving. I wouldn't want to be his enemy, judging by the posts to people he seems to hate or hold in strong negative judgment(like Mary). He probably will obsess about who I could be and make lots of guesses and even be sure about it. If he gets it right, and I notice (because I seldom come here, I might not) then I might admit it. But you know, in this forum anyone could pretend to be anyone and someone could post that he was right even when he wasn't!

I have good reason to remain anonymous right now.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:17:21 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: who cares
Subject: Thank you -- God bless nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:46:19 (GMT)
From: one who cares
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: God bless you too
Message:
You made my day with that comment! I needed it, because anyone who says it is showing they care. Who cares? me and you.
:~)
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:28:42 (GMT)
From: and everything
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Who DARES speak for all? (nt)
Message:
stirrer
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:00:56 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Nice try, Stonor but that wasn't the question
Message:
Sorry, Stonor, but I'm really at the point now where all I can think of saying to you is 'it's none of your fucking business'.

Go organize some other ducks, Mother Goose.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:25:43 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, Gerry, Hal, before anyone mentions the words
Message:
'ad hominem' or 'bully', might I just say that, whether you (or anyone else reading this Forum) believe it or not, Stonor's re-posting of what was originally my reply to Joe (re-posted without my knowledge OR approval, BTW) has apparently brought to a head some of those very topics that have surfaced while you, Jim, have been away.

For now, all I have to say is this:

It's interesting to see how you use the opportunity to share your opinion about the actual subject matter that Stonor raises, and prefer instead to give vent to your less-than-civil attitude towards her. OK you might not like the idea that I have proposed, and you might not like the fact that Stonor has chosen to reiterate it.

But the fact that you chose to ignore the subject matter completely and, instead, vent a kind of verbal abuse that is VERY similar to the abuse you and I know we received as premies, is ...

well, maybe it's more than interesting. Maybe it's something we ALL should look at.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 15:21:04 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Here's some 'abuse', cq
Message:
But the fact that you chose to ignore the subject matter completely and, instead, vent a kind of verbal abuse that is VERY similar to the abuse you and I know we received as premies, is ...

That's absurd.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 20:31:47 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Calling my opinion 'absurd' IS abusive, Jim ...
Message:
... and believe it or not, you're painting yourself into a very tight corner when you use this kind of response to belittle the opinions of others.

I don't care a hoot for what you think of me personally, (and I hope you can say the same of what I think of you) but when you so very glibly close your eyes, ears and mind to others' rational ideas that you find too 'absurd' to entertain, - ideas such as this one:

that you, Jim, STILL exhibit the same kind of abusive behaviour that many of us DO remember being on the receiving end of when we were premies,

then I, for one, wonder if you're as free from the fallout of having been on the Maha's trip as you'd like to be.

Or has the pattern truly been left behind once and for all?

Look at the way you treat others here, Jim. And then tell us why you 'need' to take such a dominant/aggressive angle so often.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:30:05 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Further absurdity, Chris?
Message:
Are you saying that the word 'absurd' is itself abusive? Oxford defines it as:

1) (of an idea) wildly unreasonable, illogical or inappropriate.

So yes, I think your equating harsh criticism and ridicule with cult behaviour is all of those things. Obviously, you think otherwise. After all, it's your opinion I'm dissing. But to say that having and voicing that opinion as I did -- in a word -- is 'abusive' is ridiculous.

Okay, Chris, tell me how saying that is yet another example of abuse.

It strikes me that you're trying to paint beige the language. No thanks. I like strong words. Sometimes they're appropriate and sometimes not. In this case, I think it was entirely fitting to call your comment absurd. I left the cult twenty years ago. I've got a lot of friends and associates of all stripes in various arenas. I'm less caustic than some and more caustic than others. And, most importantly, it all depends on what I'm responding to. None of the many other people I know who are more than happy to dismiss an opinion or comment they find ridiculous or absurd in exactly those terms do so because they were once in a cult. Really, that idea's ...... (sorry, I won't say it!). To imply, then, that I'm somehow running old cult tapes or something when I use strong language (if that'
s what 'absurd' is. Actually, I don't think so. I think we're dealing with a lot of hot house flowers, quite frankly. Okay, yes, I know, that's abusive...) is 'wildly unreasonable, illogical and inappropriate' to boot. In a word, it's absurd.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:46:44 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Twisting words again, Jim?
Message:
He wasn't equating harsh criticism and ridicule with cult behaviour, although that DOES occur in cults. Your verbal abuse goes beyond harsh criticism and ridicule, which are already bad enough. He said 'VERY similar' and he was comparing it to the verbal abuse we received as premies, not to cult behaviour in general. Sorry, Jim, he's right.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 20:46:05 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Calling my opinion 'absurd' IS abusive, Jim ...
Message:
Well I think your post title is absurd.

then I, for one, wonder if you're as free from the fallout of having been on the Maha's trip as you'd like to be.

Or has the pattern truly been left behind once and for all?

Is Jim supposed to be this magical, perfect person who has mastered life so totally that he no longer suffers any ill effects from his years in the cult and especially, the eight years he spent in prison, er, the ashram?

Of course he's not as free from this garbage as he'd like to be. Who is? You, chris?

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 00:59:59 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Calling an ashram a 'prison' is a bit 'absurd' IMO
Message:
Gerry, believe me, you don't know what a 'prison' is, when you compare it to an ashram. I spent a lot of days visiting someone in a real one. An ashram could be called a prison of the mind, but so could a lot of other things.

That's just my gut reaction from my personal experience. Sorry, it just pushed one of my buttons. It's an interesting analogy, and I suppose I've been making some that others question too ... I'll think on it all some more.

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Date: Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 01:12:30 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Hey G, you did some 'time' in an ashram ...
Message:
Hey G, you did some 'time' in an ashram didn't you? - or maybe I've got you mixed up with someone else, but if you did, what do you think? This analogy has my curiosity quite piqued.

(sorry to anyone annoyed with my vocab - sometimes it's irritating to think of a less irritating word to use. I have to simplify my language at work all the time - and sometimes I just can't speak all my students' languages! ;-)

Stonor

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:43:04 (GMT)
From: hacker
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim says the magic word!
Message:
and presto magico, what cq says is absurd!

See how he does it!

Magic incantations!

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:32:22 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: hacker
Subject: whoever said verbal abuse had to be unsubtle?
Message:
izzy wizzy let's get ...

(who's next?)

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 07:26:03 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Sorry cq, but in the Forum Intro it says ....
Message:
Posters lose all editorial rights to their posts when they click on the Submit button.

Hope you forgive me, but they STILL haven't discussed it (although I think Lotus Eater did, but I've been distracted).

(~)

Stonor

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:08:14 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: e-motion ----Energy in motion. nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:34:28 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Chris, please reread the thread
Message:
I certainly have not ignored the subject matter and have posted my opinion. And I have tried (I guess, unsuccesfully) to be civil. Please point out my abuses to me as I must have a blind spot.

Stonor and I have a cordial relationship, although we have had some rough spots, but I think that is normal.

I supported Lurkex's suggestions and am following through with my stated resolve to try them out. I don't think it is a good idea to separate the website and the forum.

It seems that the definition of 'abuse' has been narrowed down to any disagreement or attempts to gain clarification on a person's motives or where they are coming from. This is a subtle form of censorship, IMO.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 19:27:40 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Chris, please reread the thread
Message:
OK Gerry, here's the chronology of it:

I wrote my reply after reading your first offering to Stonor.

After writing and posting my reply, I noticed that your following missive HAD at least touched on addressing the issue that Stonor had emphasised when she started this thread (ie the proposal that ex-premie.org and the forum become two separate entities). OK - you think it's a bad idea. Point noted.

As for your 'cordial relationship' with Stonor and trying 'very hard to be civil and NOT sound like I'm attacking' - well I obviously was too hard-hearted and insensitive not to notice your efforts.


PS
Remind me next time I'm attempting to be cordial with a women to ask her:
'why are you here again?

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 20:17:58 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Chris, please reread the thread
Message:
Chris,

Why do think Stonor is here? How did she find the forum? How did rawat personally hurt her? Can you answer any of these questions?

She has made it abundantly clear she is a 'non-anything.' Aren't you the least bit interested in why she is a participant and what her connection is to the cult?

I am. Especially when she make suggestions, dictates policy or however one would like to phrase it, that we change to conform to some ideal of hers. She has been quite strident in this and I for one, would like to know where she's coming from, don't you?

You're not very good at sarcasm, btw. I take it that you think my asking her these questions constitutes some form of abuse. Am I correct in thinking this?

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 20:42:34 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Chris, please reread the thread
Message:
1. I think Stonor is here because she is here.

2. How did she find the forum? An acquired taste?

3. How did Rawat personally hurt her? Since when has that been a requirement for contributing to the Forum?

My attempts at sarcasm you can take any way you like, Gerry, and the way that feels most comfortable for you is fine for me too. (glad you got it!)

And no, Gerry, you go right ahead and ask Stonor why she's here (but do bear in mind, the lady might not feel like opening up to you right now).

Would you like me to ask her where she's coming from?


PS Abuse? it's not JUST what you say, it's the way ... (you know the rest)

Regards,

Chris

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 20:57:54 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Chris, at the risk of being abusive...
Message:
1. I think Stonor is here because she is here.

That's a non-answer. And a cop-out

2. How did she find the forum? An acquired taste?

Another non-answer. I guess I don't deserve to be taken seriously

3. How did Rawat personally hurt her? Since when has that been a requirement for contributing to the Forum?

You 'answer' my question with another question. How original, but it's really only an avoidance technique. And where did I say that this was a 'requirement' for anything? She has made this statement repeatedly and I would like to know how this occurred. It would help me understand where she is coming form.

My attempts at sarcasm you can take any way you like, Gerry, and the way that feels most comfortable for you is fine for me too. (glad you got it!)

Yeah, I got it alright.

And no, Gerry, you go right ahead and ask Stonor why she's here (but do bear in mind, the lady might not feel like opening up to you right now).

Would you like me to ask her where she's coming from?

Uh, no. I could have done that today during one of the three or four cordial and very personal emails we exchanged. But thanks for asking.


PS Abuse? it's not JUST what you say, it's the way ... (you know the rest)

Regards,

Know all about it, thanks

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:10:31 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: censorship
Message:
The word censorship has been bandied out here rather loosely (including by me). The only censor here, as the word is normally used, is the FA. The word has multiple meanings, and these meanings should not be confused.

censorship: The act, process, or practice of censoring.

Definition of censor

Finding fault with is not the same as removing (or editing).
The FA is the only one with that authority.

There is a lot of fault-finding done here by many people.

I don't agree that the meaning of 'abuse' has been 'narrowed down' in the way you described.

I think I'll work on a detailed post dealing with verbal abuse. It's an interesting subject that is worth studying. It is certainly relevant to the cult, considering that Rawat called humanity 'slime', terms like 'non-premie' were used, etc.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:20:18 (GMT)
From: who cares
Email: None
To: G
Subject: censorship
Message:
Thankyou for clarification. I often appreciate what you offer here.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:35:18 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: who cares
Subject: thanks (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:49:24 (GMT)
From: Who Cares
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Contrary, to the point, here and now
Message:
There are plenty examples of of not-so-subtle 'attempts at censorship' of people who have different opinions than the loudest, meanest, most (yes, abusive) voices on the forum who only want the 'most rabid anti's' to dictate what belongs or doesn't belong here. Stonor's point at the beginning of this thread, I believe! Are you blind to the ridiculousness irony of your comments wanting to censor her?
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:02:13 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Who Cares
Subject: Are you Runamuck?
Message:
You are a coward, for sure.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:32:47 (GMT)
From: Who cares
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Are you Runamuck?
Message:
It has not paid to be true to people here. I am making a choice to protect myself from more personal attack. I am not a coward, I am prudent for a change.

My points are just as valid whether I call myself by name or not.

Maybe I just want attention. I want to be heard.

I want to contribute in a positive way. People who are ex-premies and premies are just people. Not 'merely' people; but people who have cared deeply and been seekers of a better world and for a way to be a part of making it a better world. Good people! No matter which side you think we are on, it is really in truth, the same side.

I feel pissed at all the unloving, uncaring bullshit that so often gets circulated in this forum. It is truly a part of a bigger problem in the world that can only begin to be solved when people stop their dwelling on negativity and hatred and move in a fresh direction towards that which gives them life and meaning.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:03:05 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Who cares
Subject: Are you Runamuck?
Message:
You certainly seem to be doing your part to spread hate and dissention. Who are you?

What do you mean it has 'not paid to be true to people here?' Really, I'm trying to understand you. I'm completely a known person, real name, address, etc. and it has never hurt me. Sure, I've taken my lumps, been wrong, said stupid things, lost my cool and all, but you know what? It's part of life and being here at the forum has been a significant growing experience for me.

So who's dwelling on negativity here? It sure sounds like YOU are to me, whoever you are. It really sucks to have to communicate with someone who has a past here and for you to hide this past. It strikes me as very cowardly indeed. As if you can't 'own' your past statements here. What's with that?

...move in a fresh direction towards that which gives them life and meaning.

This sounds strikingly similiar to 'get a life, move on' bullshit we get from premies. And why do you think that people here DON'T experience meaning in their lives?

As for 'sides,' maybe in the past premies were concerned about making the world a better place. This is obviously not the case now and the cult has become, among other things, a way for its memebers to 'enjoy life' in a rather isolated and hedonistic manner. Whereas, many, many ex-premies have truly moved on and make valueable contributions towards making the world a better place. So yeah, I know which 'side' I'm on. Which side are you on?

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:11:08 (GMT)
From: who cares
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Are you Runamuck?
Message:
Your perceptions are distorted. How am I spreading hate and dissention?

You said:
'As for 'sides,' maybe in the past premies were concerned about making the world a better place. This is
obviously not the case now '

Obvious? How do you know what premies or other people are doing in their real lives towards goals of a better world to say that? Each premie or ex-premie or anyone makes personal choices how to spend time and money and some of those choices include work or support of causes that benefit individual persons or organizations that are helping the world be a better place, completely aside from their involvement with a teacher or whether or not they believe or disbelieve in anything! Every stranger you meet gives you the opportunity to make the world a better place by the way you relate or not to them!

'and the cult has become, among other things, a way for its memebers to 'enjoy life' in a rather isolated and hedonistic manner. Whereas, many, many ex-premies have truly moved on and make valueable contributions towards making the world a better place. So yeah, I know which 'side' I'm on. Which side are you on?'

Who are you (or who is anyone)to judge what is hedonistic or what is a suitable pursuit? The 'cult' you speak of is in your mind. And if it is in the minds of premies, or is taking over the minds of premies, then it is for them to deal with, not you to judge.

We are all individuals. The fact that you take a side or demand that I do shows that you do not understand who you and I really are. We have equal rights to choose our own hedonistic pleasures, like keeping kitties, engaging in challenging internet communications, or whatever. I worry about you a little. Has your game gone to your head?

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:28:44 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: who cares
Subject: Well I'm not the one on ten psychiatric meds...
Message:
OK so ten is an exagerration.

What's my 'game' again? And you wonder why I don't respond to your posts or e-mails? Give me a break.

And yes, it is a cult.

And yes, people who contibute money to the cult ARE indeed wasting their money, money which could be spent in a myriad of different, better ways.

I know it is one of your new age ideals not to judge anybody or anything, but this is an absolute necessity in order to function in the world. Are you saying there is no such thing as hedonism?

It's a shame you're still a premie. You have such potential to do good in the world with all your resources.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 00:10:29 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Well I'm not the one on ten psychiatric meds...
Message:
I suppose your subject heading was your idea of a joke gerry, but I see it as just another example of discrimination against people who need to take such medication. To a person with a mental illness it is the worst kind of BULLYING. ;)
Oliver.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:48:45 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings Oliver
Message:
I suppose your subject heading was your idea of a joke gerry, but I see it as just another example of discrimination against people who need to take such medication. To a person with a mental illness it is the worst kind of BULLYING. ;)
Oliver.

Isn't this taking the 'bullying' thing just a little too far?
I could give a crap if you are ten types of crazy. Oh, I know 'crazy' isn't PC.

This is getting ridiulous.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:43:31 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings Oliver
Message:
Your still a bit paranoid, I see.
As a matter of fact I'm not any kind of crazy at the moment thank you very much. I am just over sensitive to how the world at large relate to the mentally ill.
I wasn't aware that the word 'crazy' was PC but I don't know how things are done in your part of the world. We have very strong anti-discrimination laws in my country which have proved lucrative in the past when someone has been stupid enough to treat me like an inferior human being.
Yes I agree, this type of thing can get a bit ridiculous to people who haven't worked out that, so far as the mentally ill are concerned, 'there but for the grace of God go I.'
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 16:08:44 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings Oliver
Message:
Oliver,

'Paranoid' is psychiatric diagnosis. Please do not apply it to me. You are not a doctor and you haven't examined me.

As a matter of fact I'm not any kind of crazy at the moment thank you very much. I am just over sensitive to how the world at large relate to the mentally ill.

Of course, I wasn't calling you 'crazy.' But thanks for acknowledging that you over-reacted.

I wasn't aware that the word 'crazy' was PC but I don't know how things are done in your part of the world.

Re-read what I said. I said the word 'crazy' is NOT PC here in the US.

We have very strong anti-discrimination laws in my country which have proved lucrative in the past when someone has been stupid enough to treat me like an inferior human being.

No one is saying you are by any means 'inferior.' And you seem to be subtley threatening some sort of a lawsuit here. Not that there is even a remote chance of that happening, but it 'sounds' that way to me. But maybe I'm just demonstating my 'paranoia' eh?

Yes I agree, this type of thing can get a bit ridiculous to people who haven't worked out that, so far as the mentally ill are concerned, 'there but for the grace of God go I.'

Again, are you inferring that I haven't the discernment to realize this? You're just too subtle for me. And a bit slippery.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 22:16:43 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Paranoia
Message:
We exchanged messages on AG a few weeks ago where you stated that you were paranoid at times. My reply was headed 'I get paranoid too!' There was no response.
Maybe this was some other gerry or someone using your name. If so please accept my appologies.
As for the rest I believe we have done it death:)
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 23:18:57 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: Paranoia strikes again.
Message:
I vaguely recall that. No biggie. I wasn't using it in the clinical sense of I did say that. I do feel you sorta brushed off the rest of my post, but again, no big deal.

peace,

Gerry

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 21:07:57 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I'm impressed with the new civil gerry !
Message:
I like the other gErRy too though!

Hal

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:50:09 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Who cares
Subject: I'll go with Elaine -
Message:
don't keep us in suspenders please !
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:12:05 (GMT)
From: hal
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: next guess Kieth - Am I there yet ? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:05:54 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: hal
Subject: Maybe it is Cynthia NT
Message:
ssssssssssssssss
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:58:37 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: that's what I was thinking
Message:
Most others wouldn't have sworn at sb like that.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 00:16:27 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Hi Selene
Message:
Quite a fiery forum I woke up to this morning. Hope your well, and steady on that old mood scale of mine. Thinking of you.
Love, Oliver.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:28:38 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: hi Oliver
Message:
Crashing off a wild energy rush, once again...
But I suppose that is circumtantial.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:45:32 (GMT)
From: bookbuyer
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: can you explain the amtext connection to maharaji?
Message:
Joey-if you, or anyone else knows some of the specifics concerning the connection between amtext, Chuck Nathan and maharaji, would you please explain it?
A number of bookbuyers who work for amtext are not involved with maharaji, do not want any money going to him, and are ready to quit amtext and work for their competitor if they find that there is some sort of connection between them.
Can anyone explain?
Thank you,
Bookbuyer
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 07:28:31 (GMT)
From: an ex-buyer
Email: None
To: bookbuyer
Subject: can you explain the amtext connection to maharaji?
Message:
Contributions of approximately $1MM per year were regularly
given to Prem Pal Singh Rawat.I say that because he stressed that distinction,and personally thanked the premies at the yearly sales meetings(darshans)that would take place. Each bookbuyer would go up and get a plaque,autographed picture,or
award of some sort- along with a handshake.He publicly stated that the proceeds from Amtext allowed him to do discretionary spending,and thanked us for the freedom it gave him.Yes,bookbuyer
Amtext DEFINITELY is Maharaji's company whatever corporate veils exist.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 07:06:16 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: bookbuyer
Subject: The next page will be the Biscayne Blvd connection
Message:
I've been thinking about it, time to work on this, and be practical .....

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 13:38:03 (GMT)
From: DV
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: The next page will be the Biscayne Blvd connection
Message:
Many of the employees at the Amtext Biscayne Blvd. office have no idea their business is a front for funding m, or that their bosses are premies. Believe me, I know. I wonder how they would react to such a revelation?
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 14:48:47 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: DV
Subject: About the Biscayne Blvd connection
Message:
I don't know .... Do you like the idea or not?

What about some of you guys ex-book buyers helping me to gather all these posts on this very issue ? All those corporate infos etc .... Your help will be very much appreciated !!

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 17:06:25 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: some posts
Message:
JM,

I used the Maharaji search engine off the Great Worldwide Linkup and got these results. They are not complete, but they're a start:

The Best of Forum III - Roger's House of Maharaji Drek

Best of the Forum - Severance Packages for PAMs. Where to go now?

Best of the Forum - Story Time!

Best of the Forum - Story Time! (Amtext Part 2)

Best of the Forum - The Barrrogginns!!! - Roger's House of Maharaji Drek

Best of the Forum - Blockhead's blunder at the residence

Best of the Forum - Thanks

Best of the Forum - PREMIE COMMANDMENT 1, rev.1

Corporate Shenanigans - Roger's House of Maharaji Drek

Corporate Shenanigans - donner_amtext

Corporate Shenanigans - Amtext
NUM: P08276 ST:DE ACTIVE/FOREIGN PROF FLD: 12/04/1985FEI#: 22-2660400 NAME : AMTEXT INC. PRINCIPAL: 11900 BISCAYNE BLVD., SUITE 200 CHANGED: 04/13/90 ADDRESS MIAMI, FL 33181 RA NAME : BLANCHE, PAULA...

Les Finances personnelles de Maharaji
... dollars de bénéfices annuels qui sont 'donnés' à Prempal Rawat. La principale de ces sociétés est Amtext Inc., également connue sous le noms de Textmart. Cette société récupère les livres scolaires qui ...

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:48:00 (GMT)
From: Bookbuyer
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Joey-can you answer the post above this?
Message:
Joey-message is in the first post.
Thanks,
Bookbuyer
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 05:49:20 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Bookbuyer
Subject: Chuck, Amtext and Motivation.
Message:
I had this posted below. As you can see Chucki founded Amtext in 1985. There is a link on Roger house of maharaji site which says

I believe chuck nathan formally signed the company over to m a few years ago and is an employee of it,and ceo, while m actually owns it.

Where is Murdoch when you need him?

see link

http://www.oz.net/~drek/corporate/donner_amtext.html

The whole thread can be found in:

http://www.ex-premie.org/archives/archive.cgi?arch=20000212b#P_02KC.

There is a link in the thread to:

http://www.oz.net/~drek/best/drek_pam_severance.html

I have not looked any further, but I am sure if you search the IRS data base or the companies registrar, in the US of A, you should be able to find out who the share holders of Amtext are. Most likely you will find other companies owe Amtext. It is a long process to relate it back to gumji li, as these secoundary companies are owed( in general) by PAMs(with deep pockets). But then if anyone knows better let us know.

Salam

From:

http://www.entrepreneurmag.com/Magazines/MA_SegArticle/0,1539,276581----1-,00.html

The Voices In Your Head

They’re saying things—some good, some bad. Timothy Gallwey teaches people to listen to the right ones.
By Mark Henricks
Entrepreneur magazine - July 2000

Chuck Nathan calls it a mini-disaster avoided. A warehouse manager at Amtext Inc., the Miami college-textbook wholesaler Nathan founded in 1985, had overlooked a key variable in a decision that was going to cost the 55-person company big money. At the last minute, a member of a departmental team Nathan set up noticed the error...and the day was saved. 'Just that one decision is going to make a significant difference in the company's profitability [over] the next couple of years,' says the 48-year-old entrepreneur.

Chalk another one up to 'the inner game,' a concept developed and popularized by writer and trainer Timothy Gall-wey. Nathan credits the successful save to the department's ability to work effectively and team-building training his managers received a year earlier from Gallwey. The idea behind the inner game is pretty simple: By removing inner obstacles such as self-monitoring, you can dramatically improve your ability to focus, learn and perform. Gallwey has written a series of books and conducted many speeches and seminars on applying the idea to sports, business and other areas.

Need proof that you can make it happen? Read 'Power Up' and get first-hand accounts of motivated entrepreneurs sharing their success secrets.

Since publishing the first in the series, The Inner Game of Tennis (Random House), 25 years ago and embarking on a fruitful career as a business consultant, Gallwey's client list has grown to include companies small and large, including Apple, AT&T, Coca-Cola and IBM.

Applying the inner game can help entrepreneurs improve employee retention, boost productivity and effectiveness, and encourage faster and better learning of important skills, says Gallwey. Nathan agrees with all that, but also includes the benefits of better financial performance and heightened personal enjoyment of work. 'As the CEO of the company, I've got to be focused on the bottom line and productivity,' says Nathan, 'but I also want to enjoy what I'm doing.'

Does Chucki or Amtext have a web site?
Anybody.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 16:21:16 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: search on Amtext
Message:
I did an Ultimate Business Finder search on Amtext
at www.knowx.com. I only found the following:

1.AMTEXT INC. WHICH WILL DO BUSINESS IN CALIFORNIA AS TEXT MART is a company registered in CA

2.AMTEXT INC. is a company registered in FL

3.AMTEXT INC is a business located in FL

4.AMTEXT, THE AMERICAN TEXTBOOK PUBLISHING CORPORATION is a company registered in MS

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 15:42:01 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Text Mart
Message:
I don't think that Amtext has a web site.

Amtext does business in CA as Text Mart, they have a book store at CA State U at Fullerton.

From the CA corp. info site:

AMTEXT INC. WHICH WILL DO BUSINESS IN CALIFORNIA AS TEXT MART
Number: C2004400
Date Filed: 3/17/1997
Status: active
Jurisdiction: DELAWARE
Mailing Address: 11900 BISCAYNE BLVD, #200, MIAMI, FL 33181
Agent for Service of Process
BARBARA MACFARLAND
2436 E CHAPMAN AVE, FULLERTON, CA 92631

From the CA Assn of College Stores:

California State University, Fullerton
Text Mart

From the CA State U at Fullerton site:

Book Stores, Location, City, Phone
TextMart, 2436 E. Chapman Ave. Fullerton
714-449-7999

There is a www.textmart.com, but it's not Amtext, it's textile related.

This is probably redundant, but from the Fla corp info site:

Foreign Profit

AMTEXT INC.

PRINCIPAL ADDRESS
11900 BISCAYNE BLVD., SUITE 200, MIAMI FL 33181
Changed 04/13/1990

MAILING ADDRESS
11900 BISCAYNE BLVD., SUITE 200, MIAMI FL 33181
Changed 04/13/1990

Document Number: P08276
FEI Number: 222660400
Date Filed: 12/04/1985
State: DE
Status: ACTIVE
Effective Date: NONE

Registered Agent
Name & Address
BLANCHE, PAULA C
11900 BISCAYNE BLVLD. STE. 200, MIAMI FL 33181
Name Changed: 10/24/1995
Address Changed: 03/26/1992

Officer/Director Detail
Name & Address
Title

NATHAN, CHARLES B.
5005 COLLINS AVE., #521, MIAMI BEACH FL
CD

ALAIMO, SUSAN
11900 BISCAYNE BLVD 200, MIAMI FL 33181
S

BLANCHE, PAULA C.
11900 BISCAYNE BLVD #200, MIAMI FL
PT

JACOBS, ROBERT, A
ONE CHASE MANHATTAN PLZ, NEW YORK NY
DAS

Annual Reports
Report Year, Filed Date, Intangible Tax
1998, 04/03/1998, Y
1999, 05/07/1999
2000, 05/09/2000

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 15:51:55 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Previous posts re Amtext
Message:
Here's a copy of a few previous posts regarding Amtext. There are other posts, including a little about the nebulous Commex (sp).

From: JW
Email: None
To: Mary M
Subject: Amtext, Inc./Text Mart
Message:
California says Amtext is a Delaware stock corporation qualified in California only on March 17, 1997.

The registered agent in California is Barbara McFarland, in Fullerton (Orange County) California. (I remember Barbara, and her husband Bob, as very nice people and they were, respectively, managers of the two Rainbow Grocery stores in Chicago in the late 70s and 80s.)
Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 14:43:08 (EDT)
From: Blue Jay
Email: None
To: Nim
Subject: He'll be doing it like this
Message:
Nim,

Mary M's information is current through 1998:

AMTEXT
HISTORY
01/29/99
CHARLES NATHAN, PRES
P D POTTER, V PRES
PAULA C BLANCHE, TREAS
DIRECTOR(S):
THE OFFICER(S) and Robert A Jacobs, and Michael V Dettmers.

BUSINESS TYPE: Corporation -
DATE INCORPORATED: 12/04/1985
Profit STATE OF INCORP: Florida

Business started 1985 by officers.
100% of capital stock is owned by officers.
CHARLES NATHAN. Background unavailable.
P D POTTER. Background unavailable.
PAULA C BLANCHE. Background unavailable.
ROBERT A JACOBS. Background unavailable.
MICHAEL V DETTMERS. Background unavailable.

Date: Sat, May 29, 1999 at 18:59:36 (EDT)
From: Nim
Email: None
To: Blue Jay
Subject: Over here Mare!!!
Message:
OK MARY, ARE YOU HERE? GREAT!!
First off Blue Jay lies.
Nim,
Mary M's information is current through 1998
Bullshit. And Mare, I think you know why.
What Blue Jay has failed to include in his post is this little quote from the reporting company's report that would clearly qualify that not all the information contained in the report is CURRENT information.This qoute already appeared on the forum in a post from Shamrock;-) on May 01,1999.

01/29/99 On Jan 29,1999 attempts to contact the management of this business have been unsuccessful. An inside source confirmed operation and location.
In other words, regarding Amtext's directors and the officers, their information is based on their PREVIOUS AND LAST contact with a representative of the Amtext staff or management, which was basically god knows when. Do you know when it was?(I've searched Shamrock's entire post but I couldn't find any reference to when this company actually last spoke to a representative of the Amtext staff or management team). BTW its a hoot for me to think of this, because I can just imagine Neiburger directing the non premie part timers in the office to blow this reporting company off. Quite comical to imagine...but you've got to know Neiburger.
(Actually, I'd really like all those non premie part timers at the Amtext office know why they always have to do so much ducking and hiding on their superiors' behalf...just let them know whats REALLY being hidden at Amtext. But I digress.)
The point is that all this reporting company would have had to do in order to find out who the CURRENT directors and officers of Amtext are, is go to the very link you provided us all with here at the forum to the ' FLORIDA DIVISION OF CORPORATIONS, PUBLIC ACCESS.' After all, Amtext can hide from a 'Dunn and Bradstreet' like reporting company, but they can't hide from the Florida Division of Corporations.
And my precious Mary M...you know as well as I do, that if you take a look at the Amtext documents from the Florida Division of Corporations...it is very clear that Michael Dettmers has fook all to do with Amtext. He is NOT listed as an officer or director, and for very good reason. HE ISN'T ONE!!
Now Mare, I beg of you, please don't be confused by this.
Let the premies be confused.
But not you and me.
We don't have to be anymore. And as long as we're really dedicated to speaking the truth about what we KNOW of m and his trip and not sell the good folks listening in alot of sizzle...well I think we can AVOID alot of confusion.
Speaking of confusion, go ahead...why don't you tell me WHAT ELSE Dettmers has going(or that you think he has going) that has caused you to drop his name around, as if he were STILL as dominant within m's organisation as he once used to be?
Tell me Mary, really... I just want to help.
Love,
Nim

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:17:41 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Previous posts re Amtext
Message:
Do not you think that this info

Business started 1985 by officers.
100% of capital stock is owned by officers.
CHARLES NATHAN. Background unavailable.
P D POTTER. Background unavailable.
PAULA C BLANCHE. Background unavailable.
ROBERT A JACOBS. Background unavailable.
MICHAEL V DETTMERS. Background unavailable.


is a bit out of date?

The directors list clearly show a strong relation to gm, but does notproof it.

You do not happen to have the Share allocation list. That will show who the real owner(s) is(are).

Also I find it hard to comprehend, how a multimillion doller company does not have a web site. I have e-mailed Entrepreneur magazine in the above post but have not heared anything

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:31:14 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Previous posts re Amtext
Message:
Yes, it's a bit out of date, it's from a post a while ago. See my other posts in this thread for more up to date info.

This is a premie run company who gives money to m, so it's related. Whether m owns it I don't know, I don't have a share allocation list.

My understanding is that the book buyers go to colleges and buy books from professors, then resell them. I don't see the advantage of a web site for that. Maybe the Text Mark store could use one, but I didn't find one.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:47:39 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Previous posts re Amtext
Message:
TextMART appears in this article on California State Uni. Site. They are on the prefered supplier list.

http://dailytitan.fullerton.edu/issues/spring_99/05_14/news/titanshops.html

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 14:28:52 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Is Tim Gallway in it too.
Message:
http://www.theinnergame.com/html/about_tim.html

http://www.entrepreneurmag.com/Your_Business/YB_SegArticle/1,1314,276581----3-,00.html

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 02:08:51 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Here's an idea
Message:
Is there anyone here who hasn't seen or perhaps doesn't recall the Lord of the Universe album by the Anand band? It's all there in one simple picture. Maharaji sitting on some sort of throne, garlanded and surrounded by devotees. And above him, the title in big, big letters:

THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE

Shouldn't we put this up somewhere? I'd be happy to scan it and send it to whoever. Really, this picture -- this album -- says it all. Including a long, summary satsang about who Maharaji is on the inside cover and, of course, our old school song. What's that, you ask? Why, 'The Lord of the Universe', of course!

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 08:48:59 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Could be part of the devotional song page
Message:
Would you also email me some of the lyrics?

Beside this, I'm into thinking about re-organizing the pages and sections of the website. There is now a lot of stuff to read, and a bit confusing for newcomers.

Any suggestions?

Some ideas of mine:

The doctrine
The master
The organisation
Being a follower
Leaving the cult

and for each part:
the 'official' part
what's behind the scene (including hidden history, archives and ex-followers testimonies )

Any help welcome ...

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 03:40:31 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Here's an idea
Message:
Was your post supposed to have a link to somewhere?

p.s. I am not shure if you knew, but shroom the broom has been hiding for a while in his rat whole, this is the first time I see him for a week, most likely he has been posting under other name, but yeah, let's toss him around.

Nice to be all refreshed again.

Salam

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:10:10 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Here's an idea
Message:
no link, Salam. Just a real live long playing record bought a couple of years ago on some auction site.

Hopefully, you'll see it soon enough.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:25:35 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Here's a job for you.
Message:
Don't know if you've seen that latest 'Slaves Wanted' page on Ev - http://www.elanvital.org/participate.htm#Participation%20Opportunities

There are some wonderful 'opportunities' offered, here's an example:

Job# POP007
Functional Area Participation
Job Title Participation Facilitator
Job Description To help locate those applicants whose skills and interests match the available opportunities.
To interface with functional teams.

Skills required Team player, computer skills, organizational skills, discreet. Recruiting and human resources experience preferred.
Time needed 10 hours per week
Location Telecommute from your location

Click to Apply or email participation@elanvital.org with Job#POP007 in the subject.

You know, in the old days in British Seaports, they used to call them 'Press Gangs'. I suppose, like everything else, its progress. Now they're called 'Participation Facilitators'.

Feel like applying?

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:33:22 (GMT)
From: gerry the sicko
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Always wanted to 'interface with functional teams'
Message:
Does that mean group sex?
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 05:55:48 (GMT)
From: Wanted:- A participant
Email: None
To: gerry the sicko
Subject: that can participate in find participants.
Message:
What a great job title. How does that contribute to anyone's CV?
Do I have to be a graduate of UC Berkely for that?

Salam

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 02:58:28 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Here's another idea
Message:
Glad to see you're back, Jim! Things were pretty tame around F5 without your vociferous prescence.

I have an idea. Why don't you have the picture tatooed on your forehead? That way, everyone you meet will see the picture and you can spend all your time explaining to people that you followed a 'con artist' for years. Don't forget to tell them how you loved to kiss his feet!

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:04:34 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: (sniff, sniff) What's that smell? Oh, hi shroomie!
Message:
Here's me telling Jim you'd buggered off. No such luck eh? Are we to be treated to another lengthy treatise on the joys of (your) life with Knowledge, the wonder that is Guru Maharaj Ji or perhaps you'll tell us again how ungrateful we all are for that wonderful ashram life which we were blessed to experience - back before you got into Knowldege, right? (What year was that again?)

Fasten your seat belt, shroomie, its gonna be a bumpy ride this time around.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 03:09:51 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: At least I have a forehead, Shroom
Message:
No, I wasn't suggesting that you're dumber than a neanderthal. I'm learning a new way of talking. That was the old Jim. No more sarcasm for me!

But my point is that you can't even let anyone know you post here, can you? Want your local EV contact person or whatever they're called to make an entry in your cult file? Of course not.

Shroom, people make mistakes in life. You seem to argue that we don't have credibility, us exes, because we've changed our mind about Maharaji. In my old days, before I read Stonor et al.'s enlightened advice, I'd have called you stupid. Now, I guess I'm just speechless.

Naw, fuck it. You're an idiot, Shroom. By the way, what IS your education level? :)

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:51:21 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm a college graduate, Jim. I was at UC Berkeley
Message:
in 1973 and 1974. You know, when I was just a pot-smoking, acid-dropping hippie. I didn't hear about Maharaji then but I did attend a lecture by the 'Reverend' Sun Myung Moon one night in one of Berserkley's auditoriums. Translated from Korean. I didn't really get his 'message' but I met a nice coed and she took me back to her apartment. She had long brown hair and some good weed but I forget her name. Ah, the good old days!

I do know a good tattoo artist who would be willing to do the job on your forehead for a discounted price. He's sympathetic to victims of 'con artists'. I think a lawyer conned him into pleading guilty one time so he has some empathy. Just don't tell him your profession, for God's sake! He does very realistic work so I think you'll be pleased with the result. If you're nice to him, he might even open up your third eye again. Since he'll be in that area anyway, a little poke into your forehead would probably do the trick. You know, kind of like T. Lobsang Rampa described in 'The Third Eye'. Then you'll be able to see light all the time and you won't have to kiss anybody's feet. Waddayasay? Want his number?

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:28:33 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: I think you are a hoax (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:13:57 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: G
Subject: also thinks shroom' is a hoax
Message:
amanuensis indeed! That is not a word in your vocabulary shroom' - maybe you half associated it with nemesis or something. Whatever; you lifted that from an email and used it without knowing its meaning.

Because that it not a word in your vocab shroom'.

Time to go.

Bye.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:36:21 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: another reason
Message:
'Shroom' wrote:

I think, therefore I am.' But what pumps blood to the brain that ALLOWS it to think, Nigel? Could it be, oh I don't know, THE HEART? And when people commit suicide with guns, where do they usually aim? I don't have the figures, but I would have to guess that the majority of the muzzles are pointed at the head and not the chest.

I don't buy it.

I'm on to you 'Shroom'.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 17:59:51 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Good. Now think back to them days, will ya'?
Message:
No, Shroom, I'm not talking about your college sex life, I'm talking about the level of reasoning you needed to function in college. That's all. Imagine any of your old profs whom you respected (assuming there was at least one) reading your various contributions here. Not your jokes (yeah, that was funny by the way) but your dialogue about Maharaji. Do you think a single one of them would respect your posts here? If so, why? Tell me about it.
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:36:10 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You want to have a dialogue about Maharaji?
Message:
Look, Jim. I know you are very angry at wasting years of your life. You want to stop others from doing so as well. That's what free speech is all about. I support that. But let's get down to the nitty gritty. It's all about Knowledge, isn't it? That's what Maharaji's been offering for 35 years now. So let's talk about Knowledge, shall we?

I know that you haven't been involved for almost 20 years. When was the last time you listened to Maharaji? Or practiced Knowledge? Did you get anything from your involvement? You must have. After all, you 'followed' him for years. Do you really think that if Knowledge did not give you something that you would have stuck around so long? I think not. You are a smart person. You were a smart person then too, weren't you? If Knowledge is no longer important to you, then I can understand you're leaving it. What I don't understand is why it is so important to you to convince others that Maharaji is so evil? After all, all he is really offering is a way for human beings to go inside and discover what's there. If someone trys it and doesn't like it, then they can move along. But I support Maharaji's relentless effort to make it available to others. What's wrong with that?

And what would my profs say? Probably something like, 'Try it and then decide'. The proofs in the pudding. And in this case, the pudding is Knowledge. Is Knowledge a way to experience peace and joy within? Or not? You decide. I've already made my decision. It is.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:07:16 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Speaking for myself
Message:
Do you really think that if Knowledge did not give you something that you would have stuck around so long?

You can believe that Maharaji and K are legitimate for a long time, even without having the desired experience. That's my case. I held onto faith in Maharaji, and hoped that one day I would see. Maharaji encouraged this. He's very charasmatic and can string you along for the longest time, years even, as he did to me. But, it couldn't go on forever, and it didn't. This website, thankfully, brought a quick end to it.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 19:48:36 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Yes
Message:
Hi Shroo ,

Nice to have you back on line.

Would you please tell me why it's called knowledge? What is it knowledge of?

Hal

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:06:36 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: You received it, didn't you, Hal? As Maharaji has
Message:
said, Knowledge is the know-how of how to take the 4 major senses invert them and go within. As I heard him say at an aspirant meeting in Long Beach a few years ago, it is not a resource. It is a way to tap into the source itself.

To me, it simply allows me to be. After I practice, I feel more centered, more peaceful, more real. What does Knowledge mean to you?

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:43:01 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Knowledge on tap
Message:
Shroomie, everybody here has a different perspective on what the issues are. You may or may not be the 'simple, happy premie' you are currently trying portray, but let's give you the benefit of the doubt, for the sake of discussion.

OK you've waxed lyrical about the Knowledge for several posts now, but let's look a little beyond the actual finger-in-the-eye trick which we have all tried with varying degrees of success.

If M. is simply, as you would have us believe, trying to make this 'inner experience', this 'inversion of the four senses' available to the world, why does he not simply put a video clip, with detailed instructions, on his website? I mean, they ARE easy to pick up, aren't they. When you received the techniques (when was that again?) how hard was it for you to copy the instructor? Did your Berkeley degree (assuming you graduated in addition to getting laid & stoned) have anything to do with it?

So what do you reckon, shroomie? Why not keep the whole thing simple and available? I mean, these days, people search the internet for just about everything from a wife to a cure for ingrowing toenails. Why not put a few relevant keywords into the meta name on m.org and let the thirsty find it. Or, just hand out a videotape with a demo on it to everyone you meet?

Want to know my take on that? Revenue & ego. Simple really, when you think about it, and they do go hand-in-hand. Without a vast following of 'grateful, participating' people, Mr Rawat would have neither the adulation nor the affluent lifestyle he has become accustomed to for the past few decades. If you are as plugged in as you would have us believe, if you attend events regularly as you also indicate, you know perfectly well that when he walks out onto that stage the response is simply not that of an appreciative crowd. The fawning, the adoration, the silent worship is tangible. So too, is the fear, the dependency and submissiveness. (and I am not talking circa 1975 here, I witnessed this first hand this year).

I have said this before, in several posts which you chose not to respond to, so I'll repeat myself. The people who are still around from 'the old days', people close to him (PAMs) and people who are brought in slowly through the indoctrination system, do not view Mr Rawat as merely a normal human being with a few yoga tricks up his sleeve, no matter how pleasant they are to practice. They look upon him as being something akin to Divine, albeit in varying degrees. I have personally witnessed this many, many times. It crops up in knowing looks and intimations among premies even today, it is the 'other side of Knowledge', the secret one learns by inference and peer influence, and it stinks, frankly.

So there in a nutshell is the problem. The debate, for me at least, is not whether practising these yogic techniques produces any kind of euphora or not. Rather, it is how can we allow this fraudulent deception by Rawat to continue once we have seen it for what it really is? That, shroomie, is why people like myself, Jim, Gerry et al do not simply 'go away and forget about it' as you seem to dearly wish us to. No, that's not going to happen, so if that is your mission here, you are on a hiding to nothing. Better give it up now, before you start having doubts of your own:)

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 00:58:42 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: You really are something else, Rob. I don't get
Message:
it. You've experienced what Maharaji has to offer. It's simple. It's offered at no charge. But it is not required. If Maharaji wants people to listen for a minimum of 5 months so that they have a fairly decent understanding of what he is offering, what's wrong with that? Yeah, he could probably just put his Knowledge on the internet and charge $29.95 or whatever and the average Joe Blow or Jane Doe could receive it and say thank you very much and go on their merry way. He would probably have a lot fewer hassles and more money by doing it that way.

But he has said that he wants THIRSTY people. That's why they have to wait. That's why there is no charge for Knowledge. When are you going to acknowledge that he's doing it because that's what he enjoys doing? You think he's in it for the money? Come on! There's a lot easier ways to make money in this world. Especially with all you gripers and whiners lining the path. Besides, if what I've heard here, he's already got millions of dollars. You think he's trying to add to his coterie of 'brainwashed' fawning devotees? Give me a break.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:00:55 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: And you really are the same as the rest
Message:
First up, let's get over the bit about Maharaji offering something unique, shall we. If you were reading the forum some time aqo, you'll remember we explored that whole fake history thing quite thoroughly. The four techniques, in one permutation or another, are readily available from any one of the 37 branches of Rhadasaomi, and probably a whole host of other Indian sects too. Apart from that, they are quite simply not the only method for attaining THAT experience, which I can personally attest too.

So for him to charge anything, even '$29.95' would be reprehensible. So convince me again why he doesn't go with the less-hassle method of putting it on the net? And please, shroomie, you really think it takes five months to understand this schtick? Really? Are you that dumb? Does he think the rest of the world is that dumb?

But I agree that he does want/need the time to get people's juices flowing. Dangle the carrot sufficiently out of reach to where they are so tantalised and intrigued by THAT experience, their normal scepticism is laid aside and they become hooked. Old, old psychological tricks. People crave the unattainable, the priveleged, the enigmatic answers to life's mysteries.

You want a straight answer? yes, I do think he is in it for the money.
I also think he is in it for the megalomaniacal rush he gets from people treating him like a Divine Being. Tell me shroomie, have you ever been in a small group with him, you know, up close and personal? I have. Quite a few times, actually. If you have you will know quite well the atmosphere there. There is a kind of quiet reverance, an uncharacteristic humbleness and aquiescence from people who are very different around say, their boss or their spouse. People tend to stand with their hands clasped in front of them, with silly grins on their faces and meekly agree with everything he says, no matter how fucking stupid it is. How do you explain that, if not for the reason that they believe they are in the presence of the Almighty?

When are YOU going to get it, shroomie, that he has quite successfully created this image of himself in your mind and in the minds of all the other poor folk who have yet failed to see through the subtefuge? Look man, I have nothing against you, I don't hate you or have any kind of problem with you, other than the fact since you have been here you have had ample opportunity to take a step back and consider that maybe, just maybe, you are wrong about htis man. Instead you insist on foisting layer after layer of the same old premie rhetoric we are trying to rid ourselves of. Take the hint buddy, just fuck off and practice knowledge, if that's what rocks your world, or stay and open up a little. Either way, I think we've all had a bellyful of your satsang, thanks.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:34:06 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: You received it, didn't you, Hal? As Maharaji has
Message:
It meant that I was shown 4 techniques which as we know are available through countless sources. What I don't understand is what the reference to knowledge is . Does it mean knowledge of God , self ? I don't know why it's called that . I'm interested in hearing what you have knowledge of.

Don't evade the question please.

hal

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 22:53:10 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: You want a label for it? Want to put it in a box?
Message:
OK, Hal. Why do people call water, 'water'? Why do some call it 'pani', or 'aqua'? It doesn't matter what you call it. It matters what it does for you. I thoroughly subscribe to Maharaji's point that Knowledge is for thirsty people. If you aren't thirsty, a cold glass of pure water isn't important.

To me, Knowledge allows me to quench my thirst. You can label it any way you want. That's the beauty of it. I'm thirsty. It quenches my thirst. Period. If countless other sources are available for this 'water' is not an issue for me. I'll stick with this 'water' giver because when he speaks about it, I really enjoy listening.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:22:01 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Please follow through with this, Shroom
Message:
Yes, you're right. Lots of words for water, lots of languages. But that doesn't mean that we, as a species, have enshrined the mystery of water as something sacred. We've studied the substance, broken it down to its component parts and have, as well, eradicated all sorts of superstitions about it.

Last week Laurie and I went to the museum in Toronto and walked through the post-rennaisance furnishings, etc. exhibit. Did you know that for about a hundred and fifty years no European, rich or poor, ever bathed or subjected themselves to water? Ever. Only exceptions were at birth or death. Otherwise, water was viewed as a terribly dangerous substance, mysterious and ungodly. Can you imagine?

Okay, so now we've dispelled that myth and others about water. We've looked closer and seen through a lot of our own bullshit, is what we've done.

So imagine applying that scrutiny to Indian hocus pocus 'spirituality'.

Think about it -- if you can.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:17:57 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Look, Jim. If you want to call it 'hocus pocus'
Message:
then I support you in that. That is your experience. But that's not what I've experienced. I've felt that whatever you want to call it. Magic? Love? That feeling? I CAN'T DENY THAT! It's real. I've felt it and I know you have too or you wouldn't have been around for years. You want to label it as 'hocus pocus'. Okay, that's fine with me. But I'll take Maharaji's 'hocus pocus' over anything else I've seen or heard in this world. And I know that you used to feel that way too. I understand how you feel. You're right. For you. Am I right too? Or am I wrong to feel that way. You tell me, Jim. I'll listen to you. But only if you're right.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:46:31 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Look, Jim. If you want to call it 'hocus pocus'
Message:
Shroom,

You've taken superficiality to a sublime level. You simply refsue to look below the surface, don't you? Oh well.

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 03:57:09 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I've taken superficiality to a sublime level? You
Message:
want to explain what the fuck that means? If you're going to respond, make some sense. Okay?
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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:00:41 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Why not try ?
Message:
You still didn't answer the question I put to you. Why is it called knowledge. Knowledge of what? Knowledge of 4 well known techniques ?

Do these techniques reveal some kind of special knowledge for you ?

Hal

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:13:27 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Yes, they do, Hal. Before Knowledge, I prayed
Message:
to God to let me know what life is all about. I started reading scriptures of different religions and masters. God was written about as being 'light'. Did I ever see that self-effulgent light before Knowledge? No, I didn't. Now I do. Not all the time but I see it when I do. I never know when I'll see it. But that's not the important factor for me. So what if I see light? It's the experience that really counts. Call it peace, joy, clarity, stillness, contentment, love or whatever. That's what Knowledge addresses for me. Knowledge of -----? Fill in the blank! Is it God? The Self? Truth, consciousness and bliss? Nothing? You decide. That's the beauty of it. Don't you see that?
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:17:19 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: A question
Message:
Did I ever see that self-effulgent light before Knowledge? No, I didn't. Now I do. Not all the time but I see it when I do. I never know when I'll see it.

That's interesting, Shroom. I've never seen this light you say you do. I only see what I've always seen, before and since I've received K. But let me ask you this. There are people who have told Maharaji that they're not experiencing anything when they practice K. He tells them they are. What does he mean by that?

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:35:39 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I don't know, Jerry. Why don't you ask him? But
Message:
I did hear him say one time that one of the people who had received Knowledge in his Knowledge session said that he didn't experience anything. He asked the guy what he meant by 'nothing'. What do you mean by nothing? Are you expecting a cosmic light show? If I've experienced light when I've practiced, does that mean that I should 'expect' it every time I practice?

Look. All I want to feel is a little peace, love and understanding, as the old cliche goes. When I listen to him and I practice Knowledge, I do. Not always, but when I do, it's really nice. You don't experience anything? I can't argue with that. That's true for you. But I'd have to ask, what are you calling 'nothing'?

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:17:02 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: 'Nothing'
Message:
But I'd have to ask, what are you calling 'nothing'?

I see what's always there. It was there before I received K, and it's there now that I have K. Nothing new. So, what's the big deal? Maharaji tries to make a big deal out of it. He tries to make it seem as if something really great has happenned, now that you have Knowledge, when he knows nothing has changed. He tries to take you for a ride. He fucks with your head.

Let me ask you another question. If Maharaji thinks that 'nothing' is 'something', what do you think he'd have to say about you experiencing something only some of the time (your 'self effulgent' light)? He'd have to disagree with you too. As far as Maharaji is concerned, Knowledge is happening ALL the time.

So, the 'light' which I see, which is ALWAYS there, and always has been, must be the one he's talking about, the 'light' of Knowledge. And the one you see only some of the time must be something else.

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 23:48:28 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Yes, they do, Hal. Before Knowledge, I prayed
Message:
I know what you're talking about Shroo. I have also had those experiences and still do. I just don't know why maharaji calls it receiving knowledge. I don't consider that those experiences are anything other than experiences that numerous persons who practice forms of meditation have.

Part of Maha's trickery , I think, is to make out that this is something special that only he reveals. I think I've mentioned to you that I know people who did other types of breath and light meditation. ie Kriya , had those experiences , took knowledge and saw no difference. Maharaji always said that you need a living master but lots of people don't and yet still feel all those things. I don't have a master but I can still meditate and feel just the same as when I did follow Maha. No in fact I'd say feel better without the control trip.

Cheers hal

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:51:54 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Yeah, well, Knowledge is addressing a fundamental
Message:
aspect of life, according to Maharaji, right? Why do so many descibe it as 'coming home'? Maybe other Masters are out there. I don't know. But I've listened to a lot of them. I've read a lot of them. But I've yet to hear someone talk the talk and walk the walk like Maharaji. I'll be happy to listen to someone that does. Got a candidate?

By the way, Hal. I enjoy your posts. You sound thoughtful and kind. Let's not lose our humanity over simple 'loints of paw'. It's really important to me to feel love and compassion. And I think that you and many others here feel that too.

Is Hal your real name? Every time I see your name I think of the Hal 9000 computer in 2001. Is that why you picked Hal? A little trivia question for you. Do you know why Kubrick selected Hal for his runaway computer? Take IBM and subtract 1 letter and what do you get? Voila. HAL!

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:31:20 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: he walks the walk ?
Message:
Shroo,

In my experience a lot of people can talk the talk. I've heard countless premies and non premies giving uplifting and inspiring spiritual talks. As far as Maha walking the walk . Well I can't see that at all. In what way does he walk the walk in your eyes ?

Boozing, abusing. Treating his wife badly, ie 'if you divorce me you'll never ever see the children again , I promise.' I think his travelling around the world all the time was more a syndrome of many men when they have kids. They become workaholics to get away from the domestic scene.

Whatever you believe about him is just your belief. You don't know him personally do you? People listened to Lennon and McCartney's lyrics and thought that they were enlightened beings. It's in our imagination.

Sure I'm disillusioned , but I'm glad I'm not in delusion and illusion about it any longer. It was tough to have my fantasy shattered but I'm interested in really knowing myself in this life and for me, on my path that meant waking up and walking away.

In answer to the question about the name Hal, it's one of my real names. It's actually part of my cosmic name , the one I had before I started my cycle of incarnations on the earth plane. My full title is Haldor Ra Orion and I incarnated on earth to fall asleep , wake up , and then help others to wake up.
Am I joking or not ?

ps hal the computer had an impact on me when I saw 2001. I had nollidge at the time and I saw hal as 'the mind' of the craft (body) taking over and usurping the 'soul' (astronauts). Apart from that it was rather a long drawn out and boring movie I thought.

Kind regards Hal ( the mind ) Watch out premie ji !

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:30:37 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: 2001
Message:
I saw Hal as that, too. I hadn't received K yet, and this is what premies were telling me, that Hal represented the mind that was going to hold the astronauts back from accomplishing their mission, so they had to shut him down. I was also told that when the astronaut went through the stargate, and all those colors and lights flashed by, that was what the light technique was like. Naturally, it whetted my appetite for K. I'm still waiting for the stargate. Never did pass through it. But, I, er, did 'realize' K in the interim. It's just what's always there. I think very few people understand this. Very few.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 18:54:14 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Jerry you're probably one of the few...
Message:
Human beings on earth who have really realised the nollij for what it is... nothing much really..

kind regards

hal

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 21:10:02 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: I wouldn't go that far
Message:
Hal, it all depends. If you believe that Knowledge=Life, as Maharaji does, than Knowledge is everything. But if you understand that Knowledge does not equal life, than it becomes not only nothing much; it becomes nothing at all but an illusion in the minds of people who believe in it.
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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 22:05:54 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Well Jerry
Message:
To be honest I haven't got a clue why it's refered to as knowledge. Knowledge of what ? I did and do experience some altered states by focusing my attention in certain ways but as I said I can't claim to have Knowledge.

On only a couple of occasions did it come close to the states I reached on hallucinogenics which I always found disappointing as FATCON told me that this nollij was more powerful than LSD 'it's like you know premies , like a built in LSd ' Sure !

Cheers mon ,

hal

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Date: Tues, Sep 05, 2000 at 04:11:24 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Haldor al Orion
Subject: What comet or planet are you from? Honestly,
Message:
you crack me up, Hal! I'll bet you are really funny to be around. I'd love to share a pint or two with you. Too bad we can't see each other on the Net. Someday, you'll be seen and heard on my screen and vice versa! I'd love a face to face with some I've seen here.

Yeah, well, not too many that I've seen can get up time and time again and 'rally' the troops the way I've seen Maharaji do. In front of thousands. Extemporaneously. But I guess I'm pretty limited in my outlook. I'll give you that one. But I'll also listen to Maharaji's next broadcast. Might miss some truths otherwise. And I am a truth-seeker, after all? How about you?

But what's reality and what's an illusion? Tough call, isn't it? And what's being awake and what's a dream? I'll just quote some Vivekananda:

'Arise, awake, and stop not until the goal is reached.'

We can agree on that one, can't we, Mr. Ra Orion?

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 20:19:01 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: The source of what?
Message:
It is a way to tap into the source itself.

What are you talking about? What are you getting to the source of? Let's take the first technique for instance. What source is being revealed to you by staring between the eybrows with your eyes closed? Maybe you like doing that, maybe it makes you feel good to do that. And I think that's Maharaji's message these days, isn't it? He's not talking about arriving at any 'source', anymore. He's just talking about 'feeling good'. So, just because you feel good doing something, how do you figure you've arrived at the source of something, whatever that is?

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 06:14:26 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: On tattoing.
Message:
Once in my life I worked at the Remand Center At Long Bay Jail in
Sydney. There was an inmate that had every inch of his body tattoed, including his dick. At the tip of his dick, he had an eye. This particular inmate was a bit notorious so he had to be stripp searched. He loved it, because he will hold his dick in his hand, point it at us and squezes so we can all see the eye staring at us.

Want to talk about tattoing anymore?

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Date: Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 02:50:33 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Pictures don't lie - it should be on the homepage!
Message:
I've always thought having his LOTU phase in pictures on this site being very important, as it blew me away when I actually saw them for the first time, and I was already an ex by that stage. As they say, a picture speaks a thousand words, and seeing M not in a palatable suit and looking relatively normal, but rather dressed like a Krishna-freak is much harder to dismiss. It would be a major drip to recent premies who don't know the previous history of EV/DLM to see that he was actually like that.

Premies and exes can debate via words, whether M was party to him being called LOTU or not forever, but a picture of him like the one you mention would be very hard for premies to explain away so easily.

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