Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Dec 01, 2000 at 16:23:07 (GMT)
From: Nov 15, 2000 To: Nov 25, 2000 Page: 4 Of: 5


Sir Dave -:- Bimbo's post from below -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 09:10:25 (GMT)
__ Forum Administrator -:- ** Bimbo please read ** -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 17:51:08 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- The Issue of Suicide Is Serious -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 17:54:06 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- The Issue of Suicide Is Serious -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 18:03:42 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Isn't Bimbo... -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 16:30:17 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- Isn't Bimbo... -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 17:27:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Isn't Bimbo... -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 17:36:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Isn't Bimbo... -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 17:54:15 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Bimbo's post from below -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 09:34:31 (GMT)
__ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Salam, I think you mean 'hearsay', not 'heresy' nt -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 21:25:52 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- Bimbo's post from below -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 17:25:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Zelda -:- Bimbo's post from below--yes but -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 22:16:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Bimbo's post from below--yes but -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 01:33:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- What we may have learned by now -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 00:35:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Zelda, I agree with what you said... -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 23:08:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- Zelda, I agree with what you said... -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 01:10:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bimbo -:- Some comments -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 00:34:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Gail -:- Hey, Bimbo, Belief in Maharji deserves no respect -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 20:36:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Mate, I don't know what to see -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 03:25:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- should read: I don't what to say........nt -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 03:27:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- shit: I don't know what to say -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 03:52:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Sheesh! -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 01:27:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Sheesh! and some OT -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 01:46:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Sheesh! and some OT -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 03:19:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ¨Bimbo -:- Well.... -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 09:31:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- You STILL don't get it, do you?!! -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 17:27:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- On the horns of a dilemma -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 11:25:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- To Bimbo -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 13:46:53 (GMT)

Peter Howie -:- Looking out for No 1 -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 08:51:52 (GMT)
__ a0aji -:- I'm a type four chipless sot -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 20:43:09 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Nobody said it was going to be perfect. -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 17:20:34 (GMT)
__ __ chip holster -:- Nobody said it was going to be perfect. -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 20:50:09 (GMT)

Mr Bubblehead -:- Story Time -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 08:15:21 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- Nice story Mr Bubblezen nt -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 08:26:54 (GMT)

A wavering premie -:- Request for info -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 00:11:36 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- be guarded, but listen and awaken: slavery is dead -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 03:59:19 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Request for info -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 11:53:18 (GMT)
__ __ the waverer -:- Request for info -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 18:47:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve M -:- Request for info -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 20:32:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ the waverer -:- thanks mate -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 21:23:22 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Anth, how many reincarnations do you have?..nt -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 15:34:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- I suffer from... -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 16:20:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- That's bad -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 16:23:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Not yet Salam. -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 16:31:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Try -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 16:52:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Lentiles -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 17:22:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Len Tyles -:- Lentiles -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 20:36:44 (GMT)
__ Loaf -:- The Recent exes Forum address... -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 07:33:48 (GMT)
__ sam -:- Request for info -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 07:17:05 (GMT)
__ __ Peter Howie -:- Me too -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 08:12:19 (GMT)
__ Juan Capistrano -:- to the lover who is waving -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 04:11:18 (GMT)
__ __ Forum Administrator -:- F*** off, Catweasel -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 23:58:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cw -:- No post from, Catweasel, you FA Dickhead! -:- Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 07:04:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Forum Administrator -:- Same difference..? -:- Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 12:32:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cw -:- Same difference..You have to be kidding ! -:- Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 22:42:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Same difference..? -:- Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 15:08:02 (GMT)
__ __ Light -:- in your mind? -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 14:30:35 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Juan Capistrano's a mean person.....(nt) -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 18:09:33 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- to the lover who is waving -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 11:33:34 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- Typical -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 04:59:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ sam -:- Typical -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 07:19:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- TRUE nt -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 07:56:03 (GMT)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Request for info -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 00:44:39 (GMT)
__ __ Blue Max -:- Request for info -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 01:55:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- More info on the recent exes forum -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 18:21:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ And On Anand Ji -:- [mail sent] -nt- -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 02:36:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Request for info -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 02:31:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Thanks, Ben - what a compliment :)! (nt) -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 18:24:32 (GMT)
__ __ Same -:- Request for info -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 01:00:55 (GMT)

Scott T. -:- John Edward exposed. -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 23:26:34 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- John Edward exposed. -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 03:01:20 (GMT)
__ __ James Van Praagh -:- You Talkin' About Me? -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 03:10:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- You Talkin' About Me? -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 05:12:24 (GMT)

cq -:- ' ... in the presence of such a cunning mind' -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:00:24 (GMT)
__ SB -:- also, notice that ONLY for a moment you touch it -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 20:59:54 (GMT)
__ __ sam -:- also, notice that ONLY for a moment you touch it -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 07:32:09 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- cq, you must be reading my mind.... -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:31:30 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Like the fairy in Cinderella story..nt -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:35:20 (GMT)

Bongo -:- reactions/impressions -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 13:55:18 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Here we go again -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 09:13:49 (GMT)
__ __ Bongo -:- Here you go again -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 21:20:49 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- It doesn't matter. -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 15:54:10 (GMT)
__ __ Bongo -:- oh yes it does. -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 20:48:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Marbles up the nose -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 08:50:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- oh yes it does. -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 22:15:35 (GMT)

Kjarne -:- The Paramhansa Advait Mat Book -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 12:42:51 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Who are you? -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 11:39:59 (GMT)
__ __ Kjarne -:- Who are you? -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 07:32:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Sorry Kjarne. -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 09:14:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Sorry Kjarne. -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 20:29:49 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Rawat's way to cover the track -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:14:58 (GMT)
__ __ Kjarne -:- Shiv Dayal Singh/Param Hans Dayal -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 15:10:44 (GMT)
__ __ Kjarne -:- Rawat's way to cover the track -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:34:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- And what about Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed ? -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 18:45:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ toby -:- And what about Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed ? -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 09:50:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ sam -:- And what about Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed ? -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 07:46:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Kjarne -:- And what about Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed ? -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 22:04:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Mahomet ? -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 02:11:40 (GMT)

Peter Howie -:- Non-premies being protective of MJ -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:35:51 (GMT)
__ Lotus Eater -:- Non-premies being protective of MJ -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 19:39:13 (GMT)
__ Michael Dettmers -:- Non-premies being protective of MJ -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:23:42 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Non-premies being protective of MJ -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 20:12:32 (GMT)
__ __ Joy -:- Motivation and Knowledge -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 18:00:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Michael Dettmers -:- Motivation and Knowledge -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 20:46:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ And On Anand Ji -:- Motivation and Knowledge -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 03:11:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Computers and intelligence and Star Trek -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 03:42:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Motivation and Knowledge -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 19:50:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joy -:- Motivation and Knowledge -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 01:03:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- I can relate to what you're saying..... -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 08:22:17 (GMT)
__ hamzen -:- Par for the course really Peter -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 13:48:10 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Devotion, Denial and Liberation -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 00:10:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Peter Howie -:- Devotion, Denial and Liberation -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 01:34:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Bang on: check Brian's thread below (nt) -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 02:14:40 (GMT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- What frightens me......... etc. -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 23:46:24 (GMT)
__ Zelda -:- Non-premies being protective of MJ -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:54:25 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Unless they're in a real cult.... -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:49:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ sam -:- Unless they're in a real cult.... -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 08:28:57 (GMT)

Peter Howie -:- Simplicity was one of the drawcards -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:27:27 (GMT)
__ hamzen -:- I don't know about innocence Peter -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 13:57:55 (GMT)
__ Zelda -:- Simplicity was one of the drawcards -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:47:39 (GMT)

Zelda -:- 'Krishna Lila' -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:10:48 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- 'Krishna Lila' -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 03:24:03 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- 'Krishna Lila' -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 16:52:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Zelda -:- Marianne and Cynthia- -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 20:23:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- to Zelda- -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 02:39:12 (GMT)

Salam -:- To the lurking posters -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:30:15 (GMT)
__ Fred -:- To the lurking posters -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 13:49:32 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Now now puddy cad, calm down -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 15:54:57 (GMT)
__ Loaf -:- I thought lurking meant 'not posting' ??(nt) -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 10:48:46 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- OK, let's start again -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 04:53:02 (GMT)
__ __ Lurking Poster -:- OK, let's start again -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 05:25:44 (GMT)
__ Lurking Poster -:- To the lurking posters -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 04:29:53 (GMT)
__ Joy -:- To the lurking posters -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 04:22:29 (GMT)
__ __ Peter Howie -:- To the lurking posters -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:48:22 (GMT)

Sir Dave -:- Search the Big Three -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 01:59:21 (GMT)
__ bill -:- Thanks Sir David-nt -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:40:39 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Hey, Sir Dave, what happened to the site where -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 13:25:18 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- It's here -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:11:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Thanks, Sir Dave...you make things easy to find(NT -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:18:14 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- Search the Big Three/EXCELLENT!!!(nt) -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:58:52 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Search the Big Three/EXCELLENT!!!(nt) -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 04:54:43 (GMT)

JTF -:- Fatso rawat still an embarrassment to his own cult -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 20:13:55 (GMT)
__ Liz -:- Can't see the nose on their face -:- Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 17:55:23 (GMT)

shp -:- To Stonor from the inactive files...continued -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 14:52:04 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- Again?!!! -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:28:48 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- And Again (empty post above) -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:34:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- no italic typo if this posts (read this one?) -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:37:50 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- To Sandy from the inactive files...continued -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:08:20 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- FA: empty post..nt -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:19:55 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Hi Sandy -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 15:45:53 (GMT)
__ __ shp -:- Hi AJW -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 15:52:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Hi shp. Santa Rawat is in town -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:05:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- Hi Salam -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:31:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Way -:- shp - may I suggest? -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:45:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Way to go -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 17:31:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Thanks for your response, and -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 18:12:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Sai Baba feedback -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 19:00:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Sai Baba feedback -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 19:15:22 (GMT)
__ Gail -:- How goes the battle, SHP? -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 15:11:13 (GMT)
__ __ shp -:- I prefer to see it as evolution, not a battle. -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 15:46:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- ******EVERYONE DON'T MISS THIS***** -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:26:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ shp -:- So Salam, it's Ok for you to call me a donkey but -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:33:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ shp -:- You call Salam a chihuahua too? -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 18:45:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- This is getting weird -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 19:09:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- What can I say -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:41:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- What you can say -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:58:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- What you can say -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 17:38:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- You are doing the same thing some premies do -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 18:01:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Oh yeah. Your mother is fat too. -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 00:03:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- One twisted, ex-premie, premie, whatever you are -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 00:55:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Am a meat popstickle -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:18:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Just be still and listen up -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 15:52:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Oh I see -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 17:44:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- If you are angry at someone, then they control you -:- Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 19:56:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Hi shp -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:31:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Pardon me for reading you,but the tuition comment -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 01:49:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- By the way...... -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 01:53:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- By the way...... -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 15:58:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- By the way.....that was cute. -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:59:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Billdha -:- Ha Ha Hal -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:46:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lotus Eater -:- straight talk -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 20:18:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ren (and Eeeyore) -:- What's wrong with being a chihuahua (or a donkey?) -:- Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 19:15:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- That was a fun read... -:- Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 05:18:12 (GMT)


Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 09:10:25 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Bimbo's post from below
Message:
Bimbo wrote:

'Does suicide count if a person came into the forum, was beaten up by ex-premies and since the person lost his faith and the sense of having a meaning in life, committed suicide? I have heard of only one.'

and then Bimbo wrote:

'Interesting to see the responses.
The topic seems to be about bragging about people doing suicide. (Like Tims post 'if it counts if the person is no longer practising'.
The responses are disbelieving my post.
Cold and hearthless they are saying that I am lying. Nigel question if you can blame the detox if a junkie commits suicide. What I wrote about was the tendency here to abuse any person with a different belief.
There is a saying; 'if you take the illusion from an average human being, you also take away his spark of life'. This forum is about truthfully or with lies, to take away the illusion from a group of people called premies. And if anyone objects to this, they will be kicked.

I told I have heard what I wrote: I heard it from one 'high ranked' ex-premie,who told that a premie said he would commit suicide, and after that, nobody heard from him again. This was meant as a warning not to post here anymore.

I would say if the person committed suicide, you would not hear from him again. If he did not, he would come back.

But the fact is that no one commits suicide just for one reason, but what happenes to people here, might be the crucial factor.

Anyway, none of you care.'

This is all clearly conjecture and it seems to me to be refering to the case of Rob who once mentioned suicide and then disappeared. The 'high ranking' ex-premie is probably Jim.

Of course, Rob didn't commit suicide and has returned to this forum since.

If a person mentions suicide and then doesn't post again on this forum, it doesn't mean they have committed suicide and unless there is some very clear evidence that they've killed themselves, spreading a rumour that they might have done is merely muddying the water.

Anyway, I'd like Bimbo, if they can, to please say who this high ranking ex-premie was who they've mentioned and also to give the name and details of the person who they say posted once and then disappeared.

Something as serious as suicide cannot be half mentioned or posted here as an aside but must be treated with gravity and seriousness. So, would 'Bimbo' please treat this seriously and give the names as I've mentioned above.

Incidentally, all of Forums 1, 2 & 3 are now in The Forum Archives Search Engine and Forum 4 will be in the search index later this week. Therefore it will be easy to find any old forum posts which may refer to anything mentioned above.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 17:51:08 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: forumfour@hotmail.com
To: Sir Dave
Subject: ** Bimbo please read **
Message:
Bimbo,

Down below you wrote:

But I would remind you that this issue here at the Forum is not a discussuion competition, like some posters seems to think.

It looks to me like YOU are only the poster who imagines she/he is taking part in a 'discussion competion', or that premie suicide is a suitable subject for 'sarcastic' interjections regarding non-existent suicide cases.

I asked you to verify or retract your claim - in confidence if preferred. You declined to comment.

The only reason I didn't delete your orginal post was the possibilty that you might have been talking about a genuine suicide case. Hence my request for clarification.

You seem oblivious to the upset you have caused to people here who in several cases were personal friends of premies who killed themselves. Please remember that premies do NOT post here as a matter of right. Carry on like this and you will not be posting here at all.

Forum Administrator

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 17:54:06 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Issue of Suicide Is Serious
Message:
I'm not an expert on suicide. I don't know why some people find themselves unable to live anymore and others can survive. I just don't know the answer to that.

What I do know is that suicide is not a subject to take lightly. I find it particularly offensive, inflamatory, and irresponsible that Bimbo or whoever, would flippantly make such a remark like:

''Does suicide count if a person came into the forum, was
beaten up by ex-premies and since the person lost his faith and
the sense of having a meaning in life, committed suicide? I
have heard of only one.''

That is an ignorant thing to say...''does it count''... It's also a blaming statement toward the ex-premies who participate in this forum. The Forum Administrator has requested information and proof that such a thing happened. I don't think the FA has received an answer and that's troubling to me. Suicide is no joke.

Either Bimbo has a very mean streak, or is hiding something. Perhaps this person is trying to make trouble, but it is a statement that was written by someone who obviously has not been the victim of suicide. The victims of suicide are the surviving family, friends, etc. Obviously the ultimate victim is the one who took his/her own life. Suicide survivors often feel helpless, angry, grief-stricken, guilt-ridden, and a host of other emotions and questions that may never be answered.

I have experienced suicide a few times. First, at age 9 I witnessed my mother attempt suicide while pregnant because my father was mentally and physically torturing her. Second, at age 18 I witnessed my father attempt suicide because he is extremely mentally ill. Neither wanted to die and both are still alive--though no longer together, thank god.

Third, a sister, Debbie Katz, in my ashram in Hartford carried her suicide out by jumping off a NY bridge. Fourth, a long time friend who was a Vietnam vet who served three years there, also carried out his suicide by shooting himself in the head a few years ago.

For Bimbo to issue the above statement was absolutely unacceptable in this or any other forum because we are in virtual reality, communicating through computers. I hope this particular ''charge'' gets resolved because it has upset me quite a bit since I first read it.

Thanks, Sir Dave, for bringing it back up, because I was planning to soon if no one else did.

I hope we get some answers to this particular post.

Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 18:03:42 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: The Issue of Suicide Is Serious
Message:
Thank you for the great post, Cynthia. A lot of people have been upset by 'Bimbo's' posts and I think this was his intention. If anyone reads this forum for any length of time, they will know that suicide is a very sensitive issue to people here. I believe 'Bimbo' was trying to play on those emotions. And I doubt if you'll get a straight answer to the questions you have asked.

I am very angry at 'Bimbo' because he has upset a lot of people by posting these vague hypothetical and mis-interpretable statements and not replying to further questions. Perhaps this was his intention, but it was, as you say, deliberately cruel. Personally, I do not believe that 'Bimbo' has any proof of anyone committing suicide - I believe he was trying to reply to the posts about premies who committed suicide by coming up with his own little 'possible' scenario.

Mean people suck - what can I say?

Take care -
Katie

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 16:30:17 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Isn't Bimbo...
Message:
...just Catweazle back again to stir up shit?

Anth the sleuth

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 17:27:31 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Isn't Bimbo...
Message:
Anth, he sounds JUST like one of Bjorn's incarnations to me, not Catweasel. And the content of the post is something that Bjorn would write - and HAS written in the past. Don't know if he is Bjorn, but he's 'Bjorn-like', that's for sure.
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 17:36:54 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Isn't Bimbo...
Message:
I thought that myself, Katie. Wasn't Bjorn also Bim Doubtfire once?
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 17:54:15 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Isn't Bimbo...
Message:
Yes! I was trying to remember that name.

Bjorn, if it IS you, please keep your resolution to stay away from this forum. I don't think your presence here is good for you (as you've confirmed several times), and it certainly isn't helping anyone else here.

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 09:34:31 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Bimbo's post from below
Message:
Sir Dave,

I found that Bimbo’s post confusing and not too coherent, especially

I told I have heard what I wrote: I heard it from one 'high ranked' ex-premie, who told that a premie said he would commit suicide, and after that, nobody heard from him again. This was meant as a warning not to post here anymore.

I would say if the person committed suicide, you would not hear from him again. If he did not, he would come back.

It sounds to me like heresy. It really concerns me when things like that are said without proof.

Bimbo, I am not saying that your are a liar. But your post is enigmatic and needs clarification. Me, Nigel, Brian and others have asked to verify what you said. If you want credibility, please explain.

Also, you are judging us as we appear on our posts, that is not necessarily true. We are people like you and we also have our own problems to deal with. I do not think that because someone has a go at a premie mean premie are hated as individuals (is real life). It is the attitude and how they come as blind followers of a cult that is not tolerated.

Take care

Salam

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 21:25:52 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Salam, I think you mean 'hearsay', not 'heresy' nt
Message:
Spelling in English really is a pain, isn't it? :)
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 17:25:48 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Bimbo's post from below
Message:
Hi Salam -
I think this person 'Bimbo', who I believe has posted here under another identity, was just trying to make trouble and to upset the people here. He obviously knows that many of the posters here get really upset when suicide is mentioned, and his post was designed to play on those emotions. It is cruel and irresponsible to make conjectures (which is apparently all he is doing) about someone MAYBE committing suicide. It appears to be his way of 'responding' to the ACTUAL suicides of premies.

I agree with Sir D that Bimbo might be talking about Rob, who only got kind responses when he posted as a very distraught premie in the midst of deprogramming. But he might also be making up a hypothetical story - who knows? Anyway, I doubt that you'll get any reasonable response from this pseudonym switcher. (Can you really believe someone that uses words like 'high-ranking ex-premie'? What is THAT supposed to mean? This is not EV, Bimbo!)

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 22:16:39 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Bimbo's post from below--yes but
Message:
I tend to agree with all of the above posts but I think it is important to consider the possibility that this Bimbo was, in a very bimbo fashion, expressing his recognition of , and frustration with the negativity that can be on this forum.

Since he sounds fragmented himself, his fumbling mention of the possible scenario of suicide as an outcome of the negativity is a desparate one to say the least.

but I think it would be a mistake to absolve the forum of outcomes of the negativity that has been expressed here by exes.
By this I dont mean the outcome of suicide- but the depression that one can feel when one is attacked or is the victim of systemic sarcasm about beliefs or devotion to things spiritual.

It is important to distinguish between our 'negativity towards all things cult' and just downright meanness that comes out occasionally from exs.--even toward exs.

If this Bimbo is a premie he may be serving his own purpose in mentioning suicide in the context of exs being intolerant and heavy foooted.

The intolerance shows when the subject of god comes up -- and this is where the 'ex'philosophy on spiritual comes up.

a new ex or fenceline premie does not need their whole belief in the existance of god attacked as it is on this forum. This is what usually happens- because it is the philosopy of a few people on the forum that seem to dominate at times.

We may be equipped to de-tox a premie from the cult but some exs seem to extend that into de-toxing from a belief in god --and I am afraid that the frenzy that happens around the existance of a god or higher power sends premeis running back to the cult or into despair.

A premie is a weak willed specimen and a fence line premie that comes here may be a victim of some exs 'agenda' re god and the fact is that for some exiting premies, a bridge to a less co-dependant belief in god or things spiritual is an essential part of exiting.


Zelda

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 01:33:24 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: Bimbo's post from below--yes but
Message:
Hi Zelda -
I get very frustrated at the negativity of the forum sometimes as well, so I do understand your point. I (obviously) don't think that it's necessary to be an atheist to be an ex-premie, and I don't think people should be attacked for their beliefs.

However, Bimbo's posts upset and hurt people (and this should have been obvious to him if he read the responses) - I thought this was a cruel and underhanded way to score a point. Your post was sensible and not hurtful - his wasn't.

Take care, Ms. Z,
Katie

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 00:35:44 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Zelda
Subject: What we may have learned by now
Message:
In the past, I was on the receiving end of some of the ant-spiritual stuff and I must say that it put me off writing here for a while. Not that I'm spiritual or anything like that but I believe in keeping an open and yet sceptical mind about all matters 'other worldy'.

The percentage of people who believe there is a God or an afterlife is about the same here as it is anywhere else. Half to three quarters of people believe there may be a God or afterlife etc. It seems foolish in the extreme to try to convince by argument here, that such long held beliefs or feelings are untrue.

The term pissing in the wind comes to mind and yet people still believe that they have to convert others to their atheistic beliefs. The only point in trying to convert people to atheism in this way is to bolster up ones own beliefs by spreading them around.

I think we've learned by now though, that people are better off thinking for themselves.

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 23:08:58 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: Zelda, I agree with what you said...
Message:
Hi Zelda,

I think I may have chased someone off the other day by confronting them about a remark made regarding M asking for money.

I don't feel guilty, but I wish my tone had been nicer. The atmosphere here isn't especially welcoming at times. I think I forget what it felt like when I first started to have doubts. I used my mind and reasoning powers and came to my own conclusions. I was very angry. But I also had read the EPO site extensively and read the forum before I originally started to post.

Then there are the spammers and intruders who use multiple aliases and that drives me mad. I really can't tell who folks are a lot of the time. As an ex-premie, which is so distinctly different from being a non-practicing premie, I still have my own spirituality issues too. Sometimes when a premie comes and gives satsang, or aguments begin about philosophy and religion I find it more confusing than helpful.

The issue is the validity of what we've discovered to be true about Maharaji; he is a personality cult leader. For any premie that must be very difficult to accept. I held on for 24 years.

Thanks for your post,
Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 01:10:19 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Zelda, I agree with what you said...
Message:
Thanks for your reply

The dichotomy is that I am glad that there are posters who are able to cull the premies that splice in to cause trouble.
I cant do it. Not that I am too nice but I am very sarcastic when I get riled.

Like Dave sorry Sir Dave says- we have learned something.

What pisses me off is the so called ex premie dogma about not believing in god - as if it goes with becoming an ex.
This is held by a few and used on exs and premies alike.

happy sunday
Zelda

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 00:34:07 (GMT)
From: Bimbo
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Some comments
Message:
It seems like only 2 persons kind of understood what I talked about, Salam and Zalda.

My original post was meant to be a sarcastic reply to a person (Tim) who in my opinion made a very improper post about premie suicide and it made me pissed off.
I can understand that if you take my post out of the context, I am the one who is making an improper post. But I would remind you that this issue here at the Forum is not a discussuion competition, like some posters seems to think. It is pretty serious stuff and bottom line we are all human beings. And the message in my post, seems to be underlined by some posters in this tread.

The 'high ranked ex-premie' was Katie, who came up with this friendly warning (and it was meant to be friendly) about a premie who said he would commit suicide and never posted again. I dont know the person, but for me it is heresay. I suppose it happened more than half a year ago.

By the way David, although I have not tried it, I think it is good you have made the search engine, however, I was making some research regarding some issues, but it seems like there has been some revisionism happening. (not from you, and btw one post you have at your website, is completely bullshit - I might tell you about this later)

Ps.
If anything, my intention was as well to advertise for more respect for other persons beliefs and opinions

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 20:36:58 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Hey, Bimbo, Belief in Maharji deserves no respect
Message:
How can you possibly think that PREMIE-DUMB deserves respect? How many times must you be relegated to your knees before you realize that this trip leads nowhere. The only ones who benefit from the scam are the Rawats and upper echelons who control the purse strings.

How has knowledge helped you? Are you any different than you were when you joined the cult? Have you reached Nirvana, yet?

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 03:25:56 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Mate, I don't know what to see
Message:
But I think that you don't have any credibility here. I suggest you find yourself a new name next time you want to post.
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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 03:27:58 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: should read: I don't what to say........nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 03:52:15 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: shit: I don't know what to say
Message:
Glad I am not piloting the space shuttle.
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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 01:27:11 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: Sheesh!
Message:
Sheesh! Find the post where I told you that, please. I think you misinterpreted something I said (not for the first time)- and it was NOT a 'warning'. This really makes me angry.

Making 'sarcastic remarks' about suicide is a completely inappropriate way to make a point - as you apparently were trying to do, and it's also quite hurtful to people who have friends or relatives who have committed suicide. You are correct that we are all human beings - however, I don't think you considered that at ALL when you made your original posts.

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 01:46:33 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Sheesh! and some OT
Message:
Katie: Ignore Bjorn. He's way out there. We all know you would never have made any such reference about suicide. He's a waste of time in this context.

I am headed back to Ireland again in January. I'll be there from January 2 until April 25. I'm not teaching this time -- working on a novel about the death penalty. I'll probably meet up with Tim, and also make a trip to the land of the Brits, and other places too. I will be working on my cases while I am there too. I feel really lucky to be able to do this again.

Are you going to eat turkey?

Love, Marianne

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 03:19:42 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Sheesh! and some OT
Message:
Marianne,
Have a great trip! It sounds wonderful.

No turkey for me - I'm a vegetarian. And I don't have real good feelings about Thanksgiving - it was always awful in my family (my mother and sister are going to the beach for Thanksgiving for the same reason!). However, we are going to meet up a couple of other exes on the weekend after Thanksgiving - should be a lot of fun.

Bjorn and I have had it out on here SO many times. Oh well...

Take care of yourself, girlfriend -
Love,
Katie

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 09:31:19 (GMT)
From: ¨Bimbo
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Well....
Message:
This was posted
:
'From: Tim Miller
Email: None
To: janet of venice
Subject: does a suicide count if.
Message:
the person had already quit practicing knowledge? I know of one.'

I find this post like it is a competition who can tell about most suicides among premies,

I found it sickening. - Every ex-premie found this post to be absolutely perfect and right on spot.

I made a post which intended be sarcastic regards such posts and tried to urge ex-premies to treat people with respect.

I, of course, am a liar and have absolutely no credibility.

If there is a God, he knows

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 17:27:26 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: ¨Bimbo
Subject: You STILL don't get it, do you?!!
Message:
Bimbo, none of the references to premie suicides you have read here are part of a 'game'. These are human tragedies, the deaths of real, identifiable people, of premies who at some point or another placed their lives in Maharaji's care. (Remember 'I surrender the reins of my life...'?) No-one has treated the matter as any sort of game.

If anyone is treating the matter facetiously, it is YOU. Your post read:

a person came into the forum, was beaten up by ex-premies and since the person lost his faith and the sense of having a meaning in life, committed suicide? I have heard of only one.

You are definitely claiming here to have heard of an ex-premie who committed suicide as a result of having been 'beaten up' on the forum. If true, this case would as serious as any any other suicide. But it isn't true, is it? It is just a nasty piece of 'point-scoring' fiction.

In short, you were lying.

In fact, you are only giving a partial explanation now since Sir David started a new thread challenging your claim. By way of 'explanation' you misrepresent an earlier post of Katie's (without identifying it).

And you still haven't named the ex-premie in question.

Yet you claim to 'have heard of' the suicide of an ex-forum poster.

In short, you were lying.

As Katie says, this just cheapens the memories of the genuine suicide cases.

Shame on you, Bimbo.

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 11:25:27 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: ¨Bimbo
Subject: On the horns of a dilemma
Message:
You make some very sweeping generalisations. Also, you only read what you want to read into people's posts. You didn't read my own answer to Tim's post and neither did you answer other people when they asked you about your own post.

I have unfortunately not made many friends by my omitting certain posts about suicides when they could cause distress to other people who were involved at the time. For instance, I cannot bring myself to put the suicide account (sent by Janet) on my site because as it is written, blame appears to be apportioned to the then ashram secretary and I am wondering how to rectify this. You see, I do not think the ashram secretary was in any way to blame since he was under Maharaji's agya and believed he was doing the right thing.

So that is a dilemma I am faced with. Perhaps someone can give me advice on this.

And to you, Bimbo, I'd suggest you re-read some of the responses to your posts because you have failed to see the gravity of what you wrote.

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 13:46:53 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Bimbo
Subject: To Bimbo
Message:
Well you made a fool of yourself.

The difference between Tim and you is that Tim was talking about an actual happening just as much as janet was. Revealing the plight of what happened to people's life is as much important as knowing that what drives m is not his love to bring turth and understanding to this world but his greed. If I die tomorrow because of m then I want him to be blamed for it and my story told on the forum.

Yes I do not think that you have credibility.

I don't understand what is is that you want. Who are the people that ex-premies need to show respect to? Scum bags like you who think it is fun to post the way you do.

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 08:51:52 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Looking out for No 1
Message:
A few years ago a chap named Springer put out a book called 'Winning through Intimidation' and more recently one called 'Looking out for Number 1' Both a good quick read.

Anyway in 'Winning through intimidation' he describes three types of people. First let me say that he uses the word 'chips' to describe what you have or own - be it money, property, time and other assets. The three types are:-
Type 1 - This person says they are after your chips and go about getting them. These people are the safest to deal with - you know what they are after and can negotiate accordingly.
Type 2 - This person says that they are not after your chips - but knows that they are - and they get your chips. This person is trickier but pretty obvious after a bit of life experience - salesman, reps, gurus, etc.
Type 3 - This person says they are not after your chips, and sincerely believes that they are not after your chips - but somehow ends up with your chips anyway. This person is very tricky to deal with because they are so honest and seemingly trustworthy.

I had been thinking that MJ was more of the Type 3 person - in that he actually believed he wasn't after our chips and just ended up with them by accident, grace, bad luck (on our part) etc. Now I am wondering if he is actually after all only a sleazy old Type 2 person in that he actually knows he is really after our chips despite protestations to the contrary. Yeah, yeah I know I am a bit slow!

And I wonder if the genius of the way he works is that he gets others(premies who are not x-rated) to be Type 3 people for him. That is - many of the premies are sincere in saying and believing they are not after our (new premie's & aspirant's) chips but somehow MJ still ends up with the chips. I think I was a Type 3 for Mj in the olden days.

Cheers for now

Peter

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 20:43:09 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: I'm a type four chipless sot
Message:
I'm a type four.

I'm a fucking asshole who never gets any chips. ;)

All my chips are taken away.

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 17:20:34 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Nobody said it was going to be perfect.
Message:
Hi Peter,

Your post rings a few bells with me. As someone who has spent a bit of time with Mr Rawat and his family a few years ago, not to mention my 25 years in the cult- my perception of him has been changing slowly since I left.

In my personal dealings with him, he was my “Perfect Master”- so I was unable to look at him objectively. However, since I quit being his disciple, I’ve not really got a focus on him yet. I’ve seen him as being a cult victim, like everybody else- indoctrinated since childhood, surrounded by distilled sycophants etc, but I suspect there’s more too it than that.

He’s not stupid. But how he perceives himself is a mystery. Sometimes I think the premies are to blame. Their love and devotion is so sincere that he is forced to live up to it and act out the role of Perfect Master for them.

However, he’s got to be aware that his declared mission is a complete failure. He has no more chance of establishing “Peace on Earth” than my mother’s cockatoo.

Maybe he’s done what many young idealists did- took the money and ran. If this is the case- he must be a bigger shit than most- because he’s not selling pet food, he’s selling bullshit. And it’s mostly to people who can’t afford it.

However- if all the folk who keep buying it tell him it’s fantastic and it works- it keeps the whole parade of deceit on the road.

If premies had any sincere feelings towards him, they’d stop supporting his delusions of grandeur and at least give him the respect of being a fellow human being- albeit one who had fooled them, milked them, and generally abused them for a number of years. Not to mention, as you point out Peter, suckering other folks into the scam with your sincerity.

At some point Mr Rawat must take responsibility for the world of bullshit that surrounds him.

But maybe he thinks- 'Shit, I'll never get a better job than this with my qualifications. What the fuck. If I don't sucker this lot, somebody else will. They could do a lot worse. They keep telling me how great my techniques are. Who am I to call them liars? What the hell! It's a hard life being the Perfect Master. I'm too fucking pure for this world. It's not suprising I need a drink and a bit of fun now and then. The least these miserable, screwed up, westerners can do is supply me with a new jet to show their miserable, selfish gratitude. What the hell. No one said it was going to be perfect.'

Anth who was also a Type 3

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 20:50:09 (GMT)
From: chip holster
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: AJW
Subject: Nobody said it was going to be perfect.
Message:
Well there's a type one that puts a loaded .45 in your mouth and demands you confess to being one chip-thieving mother fucker. This type always pulls the trigger after you confess.

There's a type two that can't really wait for you to make up your mind, and pulls the trigger while you were just about to confess.

There's a type three that just starts shooting, and asks you how it feels, hey.

There's a type four who just empties a clip into you, and tells your dead corpse what it did that was so very wrong. It has absolutely no need of a confession; it won't believe anything you say anyway.

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 08:15:21 (GMT)
From: Mr Bubblehead
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Story Time
Message:
In the olden days, there was once a handsome young Japanese despot called Foo. One day Foo called his young male slave to his side and informed him that he was hungry.
“Slave, I desire to eat some Hare (rabbit). Go get me some”
The young and inexperienced slave headed for the forest, wondering how one goes about catching a Hare. Just as he entered the forest, a Hare came bounding through the underbrush and ran head first into a large tree, rendering itself dead. The slave jumped up and down and shouted “KUNG FUEY, CHOP SUEY”, which translates loosely as “FAR OUT”. The happy slave took up the Hare and returned to his master. The next day the despot wanted another Hare, so back to the forest went the slave. Years and years passed, and still the slave sat at the same tree, waiting for another Hare to hit it.
Mr B
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 08:26:54 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Mr Bubblehead
Subject: Nice story Mr Bubblezen nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 00:11:36 (GMT)
From: A wavering premie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Request for info
Message:
Hello

I've been told there is another forum around which is a bit less 'brutal' than this one, where people who have renounced maharaji can talk and get help without being beat up. Apparantly its password protected and is for 'exes'. I'm not sure if I qualify yet because I'm still thinking about the whole scene, but would like to talk to someone who's been through it all. I'd even be OK with meeting in person if there's anyone in the Miami area willing to do that, because I'm not a big lover of chat rooms actually.

Any suggestions from the floor? Thank you.

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 03:59:19 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: A wavering premie
Subject: be guarded, but listen and awaken: slavery is dead
Message:
if you like meditation, do it. if not, ok, too...

no need for middlemen between us and the energy within us. teachers are ok, too - but not to confuse the 2.

abuse or manipulation of that concept, = rejection of a teacher: lack of altruism, contradiction with message, role and mission.

finding one's own path entails following one's own convictions accumulated over a lifetime of experiences. be courageous, and trust within yourself and the energy within you - without the projection of personality, propaganda or persuasion.

Peace,

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 11:53:18 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: A wavering premie
Subject: Request for info
Message:
Hi wavering premie,

Ha- the thaw has begun- soon the snow will start falling from the roof, your eyes will open and you'll say, 'Shit- did I really believe all that bollocks for so long?'

If you don't like to discuss things in public- there are plenty of regulars here who are happy to correspond by email- including myself- to discuss anything you want.

Anth the drip

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 18:47:27 (GMT)
From: the waverer
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Request for info
Message:
Thanks for the offer Anth. We may even know each other,well I remember you anyway, we have a mutual friend in Steve Mulley. I may well email you this weekend. I might email maharaji too just to see if he actually cares.
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 20:32:04 (GMT)
From: Steve M
Email: None
To: the waverer
Subject: Request for info
Message:
Hi there Mr Waverer,

I only know that strange and humerous snot sucker Anth from the forum. He was on the escape commitee and helped me when I emerged from the camp dazed and confused.

Of course we all knew him when he was a celebrity premie giving satsang at Hampstead town hall but he would not have deigned to speak to us 'ordinary ' plebs. ( only joking Anth)

Thanks for posting Mr waverer . You'll find a lot of support here as I did. they're really a great bunch these exes and I reckon there's more of a community spirit and caring here than in the premie world.

Good luck to you and if you break free Anth will play the theme tune to the 'Great Escape' and we'll all give you a big cyber
hug.

I forgot to mention that I use the name Hal on here so as not to be mistaken for Steve Quint.

Best wishes
Steve

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 21:23:22 (GMT)
From: the waverer
Email: None
To: Steve M
Subject: thanks mate
Message:
I gotta sort this out once and for all so I can get rid of that stupid psudonim at least! waiting for a reply to my email to maharaji, see what he has to say or if he even knows i exist. Got your email last night but I was too trashed to respond intelligently. kinda spooky the way I can relate to everything youve said so far. Oh and thanks for clueing me in about 'Hal' i was wonderin if you stuck your head in here too! I remember Anth mainly from a couple of weekend retreats where he was incharge of childcare, somewhere oout near Leeds if i remnember correctly.
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 15:34:58 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth, how many reincarnations do you have?..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 16:20:56 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: I suffer from...
Message:
Multiple Unpredictable Personality Problems Except Tuesdays.

Anth the MUPPET

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 16:23:54 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: That's bad
Message:
Have you been to a mechanic yet??!!
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 16:31:49 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Not yet Salam.
Message:
There's a giant with his hand up my arse.

Anth the Glove Puppet

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 16:52:37 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Try
Message:
Lentiles, that'll blast him off.
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 17:22:26 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Lentiles
Message:
Lentiles...isn't that an island is the Indian Ocean?

Anth the split pea.

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 20:36:44 (GMT)
From: Len Tyles
Email: lentyles@yahoo.com
To: AJW
Subject: Lentiles
Message:
Need a good sandblasting service or new roof ?

I'm yer man .

Honest Len (cash only, no money back no guarantee )

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 07:33:48 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: loafji@yahoo.com
To: All newcomers
Subject: The Recent exes Forum address...
Message:
If you email the forum admin at the address below

recentexes@yahoo.com

Then they will give you more info.

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 07:17:05 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: -
To: A wavering premie
Subject: Request for info
Message:
i posted here quite a bit when first leaving m and never got flamed. only lots of support. i found if i was sincere, that's all i got back. haven't been here much lately- maybe it's changed. good luck
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 08:12:19 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: sam
Subject: Me too
Message:
I found support.

Most difficulty from premies who remembered me when I was more part of the premie scene and had a grudge against me for some perculiar reson. They're still around too! Staying anonymous would assist in that respect.

Cheers

Peter Howie

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 04:11:18 (GMT)
From: Juan Capistrano
Email: None
To: A wavering premie
Subject: to the lover who is waving
Message:
close yo' eyes.
if u c sumding
stay.
if u c nothing
go
dumbarse
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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 23:58:48 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: Juan Capistrano
Subject: F*** off, Catweasel
Message:
Your post has not been deleted out of respect for those who have already replied to it (and with more restraint than you deserve).

BTW: Your attitude reflects your Master's. I am sure he appreciates the service.

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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 07:04:56 (GMT)
From: Cw
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: No post from, Catweasel, you FA Dickhead!
Message:
Listen Dickbrain ,there WAS NO POST . Stop trying to score points on me! You'd be really suprised if you knew who you were abusing. Mr D would not approve you schmuck?
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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 12:32:53 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: Cw
Subject: Same difference..?
Message:
Parhaps I was mistaken - I have no conclusive proof. No matter. You and your twin are alias-switching regulars whose purpose is not to engage meaningfully but to cause disruption.

You in particular Cat, are banned for making persistent veiled threats. If you want to discuss it further, email me. Otherwise sling yer hook. You are not welcome.

Forum Administrator

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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 22:42:03 (GMT)
From: Cw
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: Same difference..You have to be kidding !
Message:
Don't give me a larger than life persona FA. Firstly I rarely post here these days and secondly I do not make threats. You may well have become paranoid at the least more over an over officious zealot. You want to consider history. Look at the Shp situation. I guess you realise I am no Sandford but are YOU infallible. And wouldn't it be nice if you knew some-one more up to date than MD. You should be careful who you piss on . See yah.
Activate your brain . Try the bigger picture.(And yes you are right the up to date wont be me)
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Date: Tues, Nov 21, 2000 at 15:08:02 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: Same difference..?
Message:
Hi FA -
Defending Catweasel here - I think 'Juan' is the poster known as 'the Spammer Rapper' by some here. My personal non-favorite poster :), by the way - at least Catweasel makes sense most of the time.

Katie

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 14:30:35 (GMT)
From: Light
Email: None
To: Juan Capistrano
Subject: in your mind?
Message:
Wake up. Is time to take off, free.
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 18:09:33 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Juan Capistrano
Subject: Juan Capistrano's a mean person.....(nt)
Message:
nn
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 11:33:34 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Juan Capistrano
Subject: to the lover who is waving
Message:
Bend back your tongue-

if it's snot and spit you taste- quit

if you lick the infinite creator of the universe in all his glory, more powerful than a million atom bombs- stay.

Anth the finite

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 04:59:43 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Juan Capistrano
Subject: Typical
Message:
A typical insensitive reaction from on of maha's 'lovers'. This is someone who thinks they're in touch with the creator within. Someone who imagines they have what Christ and Buddha taught.

Full of compassion aren't you Mr Latino ? To one of your fellow cult members you can only say ' dumbarse '.

Some of you cult followers are such a joke

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 07:19:43 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: -
To: Hal
Subject: Typical
Message:
but when did m's message ever mention compassion? caring for your fellow-man? it's al MEMEMEMEMEME
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 07:56:03 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: sam
Subject: TRUE nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 00:44:39 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: A wavering premie
Subject: Request for info
Message:
Page down a few pages and email Katie or Brian, one of them will let you in.
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 01:55:21 (GMT)
From: Blue Max
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Request for info
Message:
Ben.

I believe there are two ladies named Katie here. Do you know which one it is?

I would also be interested in that website. Thanks,

Blue Max

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 18:21:03 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Blue Max
Subject: More info on the recent exes forum
Message:
Hi Blue Max -
Neither Brian and I run that forum, so we can't let people in, but you can e-mail the FA at recentexes@yahoo.com. It helps to tell a little bit about yourself and why you would like to post there (you do not have to be a recent ex, but do have to be willing to follow guidelines about privacy and no flaming).
Please note that there is an acceptance process - your name will be posted on that forum and the current members there will be allowed to comment for several days. Some people find this offensive, but it is done to protect current members. I should add that the responses are almost always positive.

Re the two Katies - I am Katie (Mischa) Haering. The 'other' Katie, Katie Darling, doesn't use the name Katie when she posts here. But people still confuse us all the time :).

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 02:36:39 (GMT)
From: And On Anand Ji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Blue Max
Subject: [mail sent] -nt-
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 02:31:49 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Blue Max
Subject: Request for info
Message:
Try katie@ex-premie.org or brian@tigerriver.com, one of those should go thru. There is only one Katie in my mind :=)
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 18:24:32 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Thanks, Ben - what a compliment :)! (nt)
Message:
Thanks!
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 01:00:55 (GMT)
From: Same
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Request for info
Message:
Thanks I'll do that
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 23:26:34 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: John Edward exposed.
Message:
By the way, did anyone see the Dateline program last night about John Edward? They caught him redhanded engaging in a fraudulent misrepresentation, very similar to the sort of thing that what's-his-name from L.A. used to do. (The guy who used to be on Oprah all the time, that I saw as a premie aspirant in L.A.) Edward elicited tears from the NBC cameraman about a supposed visitation from his father, Andrew... passing knowledge of father's name off as though the name 'Andrew' were unknown to him, when he had solicited this information from the cameraman several days before during a different shoot. Oops, a lot of fast talkin' after that one. Very embarassing.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 03:01:20 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: John Edward exposed.
Message:
I haven't heard of this guy. And I thought I'd been keeping track of all the hoaxters and potential bearers of truth!

What you say, though, reminds me of a guy whose name is escaping me...a bestseller author who is essentially a spiritualist, in touch with the dead. I heard him on the radio...he was actively channelling listeners with their lost ones, and had way more misses than hits, yet, incredibly, still managed to convince the bereaved that he was channelling their lost one.

Speaks to the power of belief, n'est-ce pas?

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 03:10:53 (GMT)
From: James Van Praagh
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: You Talkin' About Me?
Message:
mmm
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 05:12:24 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: James Van Praagh
Subject: You Talkin' About Me?
Message:
Yeah, James Van Praagh. He used to walk with us to satsang at Larchmont when I lived near Paramount Studios. Couldn't believe it when I saw him on Oprah.

--Scott

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:00:24 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: ' ... in the presence of such a cunning mind'
Message:
Just checked out EV's newletter at http://evnewsletter.org/

It's worth a look, even just to see that M appears to be reverting to his old 'mind is evil' spiel once again.
.
.
.

Maharaji in Amaroo, 6th September 2000

' ... As this breath comes, fills you, truth comes and
touches you. There is your truth. Perfection
comes and touches you. There is your
perfection. You know, for that moment - for that
moment, you are bridged to the infinite. That's it.'

So truth is simply to breathe? You breathe, and life's perfect?


What a strange world of delusion the Maha gets his premies to live in.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 20:59:54 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: also, notice that ONLY for a moment you touch it
Message:
What is he talking about?!! You reach perfection with K or not?

What a contradiction, for having said so many times that a person 'reaches' perfection with K. What a confused individual this guy we found. He wants to win and continue the scam no matter what, confusing people, to make them dependant on his fricking grace. The grace of an ass. Poor guy. POOR PREMIES!! Dedicating there life and attention to such an empty cause.

Soooorry. The antichrist was suppossed to come as a man of peace, correct? Ooops, I said it once and many chew my behind...Too small to be it?

bUAAAAA.....HE IS SO BORING AND MEAN, the greedy lardy hamster.

Do you know when we are using the eggs?

A premie I know wants to convert my boyfriend? Is this a lila? LOL Can you believe it? Premies want to guide people nowhere? How do you get there? Receive K. Just that.

Get lost for a while, maybe decades, go nuts, kill yourself, and maybe in the middle of all that you get some kind of experience.

I am not cured. I am an angry person still; I can't speak words of love. GGGRRRRRRRRRRRRR

LOL

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 07:32:09 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: -
To: SB
Subject: also, notice that ONLY for a moment you touch it
Message:
he really encourages all the sadness i read here. he sets up the impossible goal which excludes family and friends( or used to),makes one feel guilty about enjoying the process of being alive,negates those joys and triumphs as worthless, silences communication between people, ... i could go on, but is it any wonder some people feel nuts thru' it all?
..and the experience is still there without all his hype...
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:31:30 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: cq, you must be reading my mind....
Message:
Hi cq,

I was just going to mention that issue!!! When I got the newsletter, I noticed the interview at the bottom of the page. The interview is Mitch Ditkoff with Linda Pascatto regarding ''new trends in participation.''

''People who have received Knowledge really want to participate and be helpful,' she explains. 'They want to express the gratitude they experience, but they want to do it without bureaucracy and hierarchy. They want to keep it simple.''

Now exactly what have we at this forum been discussing for the past 2-3 weeks? The hierarchy of the cult. It's quite amazing that now this interview is placed in yesterday's newsletter.

It is ironic, coincidence or what?

Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:35:20 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Like the fairy in Cinderella story..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 13:55:18 (GMT)
From: Bongo
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: reactions/impressions
Message:
Very insrtuctive site this. Thanks again for the responses. This is a new medium for me, and also new content (ie. the unspeakable Gyan).

Nigel, I think you and I run the risk of getting very wordy with each other by the neccessity of defining terms. But what the hell. You say you don't know what I mean by legitimate. But the next time you use the word it is in the phrase 'spiritually ' legitimate. Why bring spiritually into this? And why do you oppose the concepts of spiritual legitimacy and chilling out,by asking me to decide between them? What's your game? I will define the phrase 'legitimate entity' if you want, but right now I couldn't be arsed. Chilling, hanging, mellowing, and all forms of grooviness is most spiritual as we all agree.

Steve Quint, I agree with what you say about M's attitude to mental health.It stinks and is a dangerous thing to leave lying around. Thanks for your story. Mind/heart polarities! What a load of crude psycho-shite to spray indiscriminately at the crowd. But then I wasn't really talking about him, but it.

Way, I think I'm nearly up to speed now! So many things you say I cant remember all.
What's this God/snot thing? For thousands of years, since Hippocrates, snot has been one of the cornerstones of curative research. Is it to do with that? Or is it just naughty boy stuff?
We too could add a bit of definition and precision into the discussion. How about when the word technique is mentioned, deconstructing it thus: 1, The actual act of prodding,poking etc
2,The experience had. 3, the perception of the significance of
the experience. It is point 3 that I am on about.
Also the thing about not talking about tecs etc. Non-disclosure is a technique of insulation. As in electrical operations,the same in magical ones. It automatically recoils on abusers, so why make a thing of it?
What do I seek inside? I seek a relationship to outside.
Yes I have and do work with other techniques. My thought has been influenced by Marcus Aurelius, Goethe, Shakespeare, Steiner,Krisnamurthi, recently Goffman,and lots of other things too, Crowley, Celtic Mysteries,sex rocknroll.and very few chemicals. Pretty standard white trash mix really. You talk as if you represent something. Is this site patrolled by elders?

Anth the Electron(Atom Anth), No I don't go for the what is in me is God routine. But I can sense an inner and an outer.There is definitely a polarity to be investigated in my view. Dare I say a mystery, a riddle? But solveable. As for your 'its all one
dismissal shame shame. To escape from Maharaji's Moron Factory only to collapse into the arms of simplistic Atomism-well. Matter as the origin of consciousness? How indeed?
Lots of love Bongo the Being

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 09:13:49 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Bongo
Subject: Here we go again
Message:
Matter as the origin of consciousness? How indeed?

Bongo,

Don't you think it's at least possible that consciousness is as much a part of evolution as is anything else in our universe? Why do you 'spiritualists' so readily discount the connection between matter and consciousness? It would really spin your mind (as in blow away your concepts) if it turned out that our consciousness exists only so long as we have a living, functional brain, wouldn't it? Yet, that's where all the evidence seems to point.

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 21:20:49 (GMT)
From: Bongo
Email: email
To: Jerry
Subject: Here you go again
Message:
You think I'm stupid don't you? Hey, if the only pre-requisite to consciousness was, as you say, to have a living functional brain, what about the hours of midnight to eight a.m.? Sleep. Personally I remain unconscious during sleep-no consciousness at all. But I do have a brain. Things need elaborating at this point I think. But is it worth it here?
Also. I never excluded consciousness from evolution, or matter. It was the origin of consciousness, that I was addressing.
Am I a 'Spiritualist', just because I try to negotiate with a man who has just told me he is in fact a bunch of electrons? I didn't feel I was merely addressing an atom-fest. Still I guess Anth was joking huh? Jai Sat Chit Anand. Youve really blown my concepts brother.
Bongo.
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 15:54:10 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Bongo
Subject: It doesn't matter.
Message:
Hi Bongo,

You can't separate life from molecules- except by death. Life had never existed without molecules. The scientific definition of life describes different states and activities of molecules (growth, respiration, reproduction etc).

I don't think I said 'matter is the origin of consciousness'- but I believe you can't have one without the other.

And what could be more simplistic than dividing life into 'inside' and 'outside'- this distinction really is artificial. We are not separate from the world we live in. We are completely integrated and part of it. This is a left over from you hinduistic-guru-programming.

Anth the Anti-matter

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 20:48:16 (GMT)
From: Bongo
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: oh yes it does.
Message:
Anth, I can't find it in me to address your post point by point, because it is so contradictory. We would end up in a welter of defining and defending. I know you mean well enough, but it does look as if you've done a rawat, and just thrown your head back and 'uttered'. I sense that premie longing to play an ace so high they will never have to play another. To me 'molecules' as the great knock-down argument has never worked.
And don't be so quick on the 'its your guru conditioning' please. An interest in inner/outer, idea/world, polarities has occupied greater brains than ours- Aquinas, Spinoza, Berkley, Descartes. Was all that due to their guru-hinduistic conditioning too?
No,lets use this site for rapid fire elfin leaps, mixed in with glorious smart-arseing against nasty Mr. Rawat, the scourge of the Upper Fourth!
Whatever.Love Bongo
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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 08:50:27 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Bongo
Subject: Marbles up the nose
Message:
Hi Bongo,

I'd like to look at this idea of 'inside' and 'outside'- going within etc.

If you swallow some food- it goes inside you- ie it's within.

If an insect flies into your ear- it's within, same as if you push a marble up your nose.

Inside my brain- thoughts fly around. If I'm frightened or nervous my stomach feels funny.

But I get the feeling you're talking about something else that is 'within'- or 'inside'.

I don't really know what you mean by this Bongo- maybe you could explain a bit.

Anth the without

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 22:15:35 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Bongo
Subject: oh yes it does.
Message:
Hi there Bongo,

Life is so fucking fascinating isn't it? I know so little about myself after all these years of exploration.

I am still intrigued by all of it. Whatever we say to each other it's mostly based on belief systems expounded by others. Even the scientific atheists are just latching on to another set of beliefs and theories. Who knows - and should I care about anyone saying they know anything? What do i know ?

I don't bloody well know!

So much for the Knowledge of all knowledges. Feels good to go freelance though.

Hal

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 12:42:51 (GMT)
From: Kjarne
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: The Paramhansa Advait Mat Book
Message:
Jean- Michel!

Maybe you allready know this.

The first master in the Paramhansa Advait Mat book is Shri Paramhansa Dayal. Shri Swarupanand is the second master.

In Maharajis list of masters, Shri Paramhans Dayal is also the master of Swarupandan.

In Maharajis list, Totapuri is the first master that we know by name. Totapuri was the founder of Advaita Vedanta and he imparted Ramakrishna the great truth of Vedanta. His most wellknown diciples was Vivekananda and Brahmanand. Maharaji has spoken about them a lot.

Maybe Maharajis list is not that wrong after all.

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 11:39:59 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Kjarne
Subject: Who are you?
Message:
Kjarne,

Who are you?

I've got a suspicion that you're a nasty, vindictive premie, who's been here before and has been banned- who has no life outside a grubby little cult, and has her head stuck so far up her arse she thinks god tastes of snot and fatso on the throne is the creator of the universe in person. One confused, brainwashed lump of Aussie meat.

tell me I'm wrong Kjarne, and I'll apologise.

Otherwise fuck off.

Anth the paranoid

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 07:32:53 (GMT)
From: Kjarne
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Who are you?
Message:
I think you are wrong Anth. I have been here before, but I am not a she and not from Australia. I am from Norway.

It`s a long time since I have been to a program in my community because I am trying to sort things out.


Kjarne

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 09:14:35 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Kjarne
Subject: Sorry Kjarne.
Message:
Kjarne,

I apologise for being so short with you.

There's a really nasty Aussie premie who's been extremely disruptive on the forum, and I thought she was you.

I hope you'll forgive my growling, it was misdirected.

Anth who's going to his room without any supper

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 20:29:49 (GMT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Sorry Kjarne.
Message:
Going to your room without any supper isn't all that much of a burden. Just chow down before you go there!
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:14:58 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Kjarne
Subject: Rawat's way to cover the track
Message:
You're mixing up everything .....

Whether Hans was the heir of Swarup or not.

If he is, then you'll have to believe the Advait Mat records ......

Shiv Dayal Singh is the real name of Paramhans Dahal .... and his heritage is documented enough.

Rawat's attempt to bring Totapuri and Ramakrshna etc in the picture is a lame attempt to mask the historical facts.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 15:10:44 (GMT)
From: Kjarne
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Shiv Dayal Singh/Param Hans Dayal
Message:
Shiv Dayal Singh was born in 1818 and died in 1878. Param Hans Dayal was born in 1840 and died in 1919.

So it is not the same person.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:34:43 (GMT)
From: Kjarne
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Rawat's way to cover the track
Message:
I think the whole thing gets more and more confuseing.
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 18:45:13 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Kjarne
Subject: And what about Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed ?
Message:
any idea ....... that's confusing too !!
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 09:50:05 (GMT)
From: toby
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: And what about Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed ?
Message:
yeah,

that is obviously ridiculous,and dangerous because of the awarness of the official representatives of those religions.
Look at Bhagwan who had to withdraw the 'Bhagwan' because of the
pressure in India (Bal Bhagwan seems to be different because of the modification)so he choose 'Osho'.
That got him promt response from Zen-people in Japan who were
mispleased but Japan is much more far away than India where he had to settle down.
So hamster skipped the big ones now because he wants to make
business.To construct the indian line seems to be okay because
that is what a lot of people do there.
BUT

This whole discussion seems to be of no use:

It fulfills the purpose to even start to discuss about a historical legitmation on m.

But the only thing that counts is who he is and what his
character is all about.
All the lies.
All the betrayals.
All the mistakes.

After all that the legitimation must be historical.

Because there is none because of skills.

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 07:46:17 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: -
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: And what about Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed ?
Message:
and i dont a lineage shit- because who knows -they may have all owned yachts- know what i'm getting at?
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 22:04:54 (GMT)
From: Kjarne
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: And what about Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed ?
Message:
Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed is 2-3000 years ago. I don`t know about them.

Shiv Dayal Singh/ Param Hans Dayal is just 100 years ago. I am suprised that you mix those names together.

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 02:11:40 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Kjarne
Subject: Mahomet ?
Message:

Very chary of including in his lineage the above gentleman is our Mr. Rawat.

syntax: sorry.

C'mon Prem , you can stand shoulder to shoulder with the past masters , indeed you are them.

How come you always kept Mahomet at arms length?

Didn't the angel Gabriel appear to you ?

Maybe you don't approve of almsgiving?

Could be you don't want a guy with a beard to stick a rifle in your ear & tell you , 'you ain't him'.

Kjarne...... never mind the shivs & the params ,Rawat is trying to play with the big boys.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:35:51 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Non-premies being protective of MJ
Message:
I recently let some close frineds in on how this forum was progressing especially with MD's revelations and stories.

They became quite defensive on MJ's behalf and then began to talk of their own gurus - and really wanted me to be more understanding of MJ. seperate MJ and K, seperate MJ and what he teaches, seperate my experience from MJ etc etc etc. All the thinngs I have seen premies and semi-premies do on this forum.

I was somewhat stumped. Firstly because I was revealing a new aspect of myself with these people and was a bit dissapointed. Secondly because I saw that in order to protect their own 'difficult to arrive at' spiritual notions they would find it very difficult to have a real sharing/intimacy in this arena.

Have any of you out there found this type of response?

Cheers

Peter Howie

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 19:39:13 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Non-premies being protective of MJ
Message:
Yes, I have noticed this a lot, maybe they are delighted to hear you dissing your cult leader, but, but, but, not Jesus too, surely?

On the subject of innocence, I really liked what Michael D said in the last para of his post. IMO, what is innocence? it is ignorance of pain and so also ignorance of fear of pain.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:23:42 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Non-premies being protective of MJ
Message:
Peter,

I have read your post below as well as this one. For what it’s worth, when your questions of innocence arise, just remember that there is nothing innocent nor spiritual about Maharaji. He experienced power (in his case, his delusion that he is lord and master of knowledge and the devotees who worship him as such) at a very young age, and he quickly acquired a taste for its fruits.

In time he learned what it takes to hold on to his power and he began honing his skills at manipulating and fear-mongering. In doing so, he lost touch with the innocence and love that I experienced in him when we first met more than 25 years ago. I can only assume that his excessive drinking and profligate spending are desperate attempts to fill a void that, according to his own teachings, only knowledge can satisfy.

In my opinion, it is natural that, as we grow up, we lose much of the innocence that may have surrounded us as children. Perhaps surrender to Maharaji, or to any other guru for that matter, perpetuates for many a desire to once again, or perhaps for the first time, experience blissful innocence. But we are no longer children. It is a natural part of life that we grow up and participate in the world as best we can. Even though we may lose our childlike innocence as we learn to take responsibility for our lives, it is possible to nurture love and care for ourselves and others as we grow in wisdom without surrendering to anyone.

Best to you,

Michael

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 20:12:32 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Non-premies being protective of MJ
Message:
Dear Michael,

I liked what you said about innocence and Maharaji's loss of it. I guess it didn't take long between the time he ''became perfect master,'' so young, and the age he started his manipulating and fear-mongering.

The more I learn about Maharaji and what he is really like, i.e., his various dysfunctional behaviors, that he really doesn't care about anyone but himself, I understand that it was a part of my desire to reclaim my lost childhood that drew me to him, even though I was 21, unaware of it at the time when I started in the cult. That doesn't let him off the hook for using and abusing me. It's something I've learned about myself, with no help from HIM I might add.

Maharaji was good at acting like a loving guru on stage. I emphasize was good He'd say: ''My premies, or Dear Premies, or Blessings to all the Premies.'' We sang arti ''you are my mother, you are my father...'' Then by yelling at us when he wanted something (and it was money, not love) in so many inappropriate ways, as if we were his children he treated us as children--a manipulative hook.

He's so transparent to me now. He still plays his games of deception, cruelty, manipulation and greed. He seems to be going in cycles of devotion and non-devotional periods. That was a major clue to me he was a fraud and cult leader. He uses any way possible to keep everything for himself, at his devotees' cost.

Be well,
Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 18:00:42 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: JoyJaber@aol.com
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Motivation and Knowledge
Message:
Michael, that last paragraph you wrote really hit home with me. What a great description of what motivates some (most?) of us to join the cult and want to surrender to the guru in the first place.

The last sentence of the paragraph before it, however, ALMOST implies that you think Knowledge would be the thing that would fill the void that everyone (including M) experiences in some way or another. My 10-year experience of Knowledge was that it was a mundane meditation if looked at separately from the Guru-loving/devotional/surrender aspect that went along with it. Similar to TM or any other eastern meditation freely available from myriad different teachers. In fact, I think I actually had a better experience with meditation in the brief time I did TM (just a few weeks) than with 10 years doing M's four techniques, if you separate it out completely from the devotional aspect. For me, the entire thing was a devotion trip and I believe it still is, just couched in more modern clothing and terminology.

Your last sentence, that it is possible to love and nurture and care for ourselves without surrendering to anyone is right on. I would also like to add that I think it's possible to do it without meditation techniques also.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 20:46:00 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Joy
Subject: Motivation and Knowledge
Message:
Joy,

When I said 'I can only assume that his (Maharaji's) excessive drinking and profligate spending are desperate attempts to fill a void that, according to his own teachings, only knowledge can satisfy' I meant that Maharaji's himself behaves in a way that strongly suggests that he does not to believe nor practice what he preaches.

When I left Maharaji, I had come to the conclusion that the knowledge he speaks about is not the experience of a universal life force that is within all of us as I had once assumed. Maharaji makes the point that the knowledge he speaks about is 'his' knowledge and, as such, all he is offering the experience that comes from totally devoting and surrender to him, and that’s it. Now, if you are willing to believe that he is someone really special, better yet god, then why not go for it. God and universal consciousness must be one and the same, and if god has manifested in human form, then it makes perfect sense that surrender to god results in the experience of universal consciousness.

But, if the god you thought you were surrendering to turns out to be an insatiably materialistic alcoholic who constantly criticizes everything and everyone around him, then you get the experience one gets when one surrenders to a selfish and abusive person.

As I have said before, I still meditate but I do not exclusively use the techniques Maharaji untruthfully calls his own. And I don’t surrender to anyone to experience the benefits I derive from doing so. Hope that clears up where I stand on this matter.

Michael

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 03:11:35 (GMT)
From: And On Anand Ji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Motivation and Knowledge
Message:
It just crossed my mind again that you might be a practical example of a rigged Turing Test, Michael.

[A puppet-identity conceived by an ex-premie looking to gain ground cheaply]

I hope for everyone's sake you're the genuine article! Looking forward to your postings here.

Cheers,

a0aji

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 03:42:02 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: And On Anand Ji
Subject: Computers and intelligence and Star Trek
Message:
I think I will always find it surprising that some might think that computers could rival human intelligence. I am reminded of an episode on Voyager, where the 'universal translator' of humanoid speech fails. No one and no thing has ever been able to communicate with these particular humanoids. It turns out that the experts back on Voyager twig on to the possibilities of metaphor, and even with search engines to track down the names (a la 'Romeo and Juliet' or 'Troy') in their computer data banks, they achieve little compared to Picard who was transported to share the experience of a life threatening battle with a monster beside the captain of the other ship, who died in his arms while listening to Picard tell the Epic of Gilgamesh. It also reminds me of giving my mother tongue and second-language adult high-school students Lewis Carroll's 'Jabberwocky' to read; through brainstorming and discussion, they 'understood'.
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 19:50:21 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Motivation and Knowledge
Message:
Hallo Joy,

Yes I absolutely agree. It was all about the cult of devotion and still is.

I know premies who find meditation rather a drag and can't really manage to do it daily. They tell me that it's the devotion to Mahaha that's the really wonderful thing.

I actually felt like chucking up recently when an old friend told me about the recent program and how beautiful it was to do service and how lovely it was to be with all the other premies...blah blah yuk.

Shp was saying just yesterday that he meditates infrequently. Why? If this nollij is supposed to be so wonderful, the connection with the creator within etc., how come it take so much flogging to get people to do it?

I don't do it anymore , I never wanted to. I just thought that I should. I was trying to find an enlightened me. It feels great as Anth said to not have to do that anymore.

If I feel like sitting quietly I will and do sometimes. I fucking hated holding my arms up and assaulting myself with my fingers and thumbs. Actually I never used that part of it as it seemed so cumbersome.

I'm really enjoying being a free agent and just doing what the fuck I like.

Here's a toast to escaping the clutches of Fatcon.

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 01:03:28 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Motivation and Knowledge
Message:
Hi Marianne (from down below) and all -- it's a gorgeous day in Seattle also, crisp and clear and cold, with leaves everywhere.

Hal, I gotta comment on your line about 'trying to find an enlightened me'. I think that's why a lot of people do meditation. I always knew I couldn't do it myself, I did not have the capability of enlightening myself. Which is probably why I went the devotional route with Maharaji (which is actually what he encourages). But not only did I ultimately drop of out M's cult, but dropped out of a five-year stint with Tibetan Buddhism recently also, realizing that I can barely get out of bed in the mornings, much less engineer my own enlightenment. It just seemed an impossible task and the people engaged in pursuing it not very loving or connected (I know this might raise howls of protest and fingers pointing towards the Dalai Lama, who is a major source of love and light in the world, IMHO). It's just that for me, at this stage in my life, trying to do it myself just doesn't work. And surrendering to gurus doesn't work either. I suggest people explore other options and ways of connecting with the world and experiencing love, there are many of them, friends and family are a good start, these gurus do not have an exclusive lease on this aspect of life. And if people want to just relax and calm the mind and chill out from the stress of a hectic day, there are all sorts of biofeedback and relaxation techniques available. The Robert Monroe Institute has some wonderful relaxation tapes that put me to sleep better than anything I've ever come across. (Look it up on the Web, if interested.)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I, personally, no longer need gurus or meditation in my life. Others, like Michael, may still derive benefit from meditation, but for me, I'm so glad to be relieved of the burden of having to create my own enlightenment, and anything even remotely associated with gurus or eastern religions. And the funny thing is that now I've dropped the whole thing I actually feel closer to God or more connected, however you want to describe it. The Buddha himself said there were 84,000 paths to enlightenment (how he came up with that number is a mystery!). I sure enjoy having nothing to do with the ones with gurus beckoning on them or meditation associated with them!

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 08:22:17 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: I can relate to what you're saying.....
Message:
Thanks joy,

I still read a lot about enlightenment . I enjoy reading Zen buddhist stories and I feel like I know what they're talking about when they speak of zen. I like the taoist stuff too. However I can't see myself making effort again to attain some kind of enlightened state through meditation.

I actually feel quite fine without sitting down and meditating and without a belief in any outside 'power' or authority.

I'm interested in what makes me tick. I like to observe my mind and the way my thoughts take me into different emotions. I want to 'feel' my life and be aware of it, appreciate it, but I don't think it's necessary to follow any kind of particular prescribed formulas.

i've taken a look at alternative ways including buddhism. I wasn't so attracted to Tibetan buddhism as it seemed too complex but I like Zen which seems to be more streamlined and experiential, without beliefs in gods , dogs, or GOD. No astral or other dimensional belief systems but I'll never call myself a this or that again. I am at last a part of the human race and not a deluded spiritual egotist who thinks he has something special that only the few can have. I feel more connection to the people on the street and more love for my family since renouncing my quest for whatever it was.

No fight , no struggle. One of those sage types said ' the day will come when you will laugh at all your efforts , and the day of laughter is now'

Best wishes to you Joy and it's nice to read your posts here,

Hal

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 13:48:10 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Par for the course really Peter
Message:
Come across a little of this but more when new-agers are defending those little cliches like 'all is illusion', 'stay away from negative/critical thoughts', 'enlightenment is a real state etc', 'everything that happens to you is karma', 'people think too much and don't feel enough', that kind of territory.

On the surface they may be anti-guru but when you probe, exactly the same psycho bolsters.

Which was exactly how he was able to get off to such a runaway start, dlm in the west, as were all the other eastern cults/gurus, feeding off that anti-science new age vibe.

What frightens me is the sloppy thinking around alternative medicines/positive thinking of new agers more than guru's who have lost out to the anti-leader democratic surge of the last 20 years.

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 00:10:42 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: All
Subject: Devotion, Denial and Liberation
Message:
Hi everyone. It is a perfectly gorgeous day in San Francisco. It is warm, the sun hangs low in the afternoon sky, and the Golden Gate Bridge gleams in the distance from the hill behind my house. These breath-taking sights partly inform my contribution to this thread.

Peter, I think your post raises some very important issues. So does Michael's response. First of all, I am not surprised by your friends' reactions. Most other spiritual organizations do not share the intense devotional aspects that are promoted and indeed, subtly required, by DLM/EV in order to truly experience k. Your friends may not realize the level of devotion and surrender required of us. (I can hear John McLaughlin's 'Love, Devotion and Surrender' cranking up on a stereo. Favorite premie music in the old days).

A few organizations are as intense, but I am betting that none of these friends ever followed a person who claimed to be the Lord of the Universe. That is a way to demonstrate that what you are describing is quite different.

By sharing your true feelings with people on a spiritual path, you may have touched upon their own uncertainties. This could cause them to leap to the defense of their own chosen path. Sort of like when we, as premies, would say, 'Oh, we're not like the Moonies!' And now, painfully, we realize that in our unquestioning devotion, we were exactly like the fecking Moonies.

Failing to recognize the cultic aspects of DLM/EV is a result of the denial that was inculcated in us as we aspired to be true devotees of the Perfect Master. Denial was an essential part of devotion. Without it, doubt was always in our minds.

This was not a true spiritual path because it depended, and still depends, on submission to and the enrichment of another individual in order to gain liberation. I know that the premies will say this is not so, but those of us who have left realize this ultimate truth about this supposed path.

Painfully, I now realize that after my alcoholic father committed suicide when I was 17 in 1973, I left home in order to live in the ashram and follow someone who behaved just the same as my sick father. I now realize that M's insatiable demands for devotion and compensation spring from the same twisted, never possibly satisfied desires experienced by my father.

M is not God personified. He is fallible just like us. And the manner in which he runs EV and his life draws the curtain on who he really is. Beware.

Peter, your friends could never understand unless they were involved in DLM/EV as we were.

And Michael, thanks for another post that I can extrapolate.

Best to all on this gorgeous San Francisco day,
Marianne

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 01:34:38 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Devotion, Denial and Liberation
Message:
Dear Marianne,

Thank you for your response. Isn't it great the thoughtfulness that gets generated here.

Anyway when you mentioned your father I made another connection. My dad wasn't an alcoholic but he was a philanderer and had a secret life from the public one with my Mum etc.So I get together with a dad-substitute who also has a secret life.

On a more humorous note - and I'll make an MJ connection after the anecdote. My Mum thought my dad was having affairs. He of course denied it. In those days in Australia you needed hard evidence to get a divorce - being abused, affairs etc. So Mum hired a private detective who took pictures of my dad having it off with a prostitute in the back of the family car. When she presented these pictures to my dad he said 'I'll never be able to trust you again becuase you used a privtae detective!!!' Mum nearly choked with laughter but dad was dead serious.

Anyway I can imagine MJ saying 'I'll never be able to trust you - you listened to the lies on the Forum.' Unsaid but implied 'You'll have to dedicate even harder now to get back in my good books.' Even more unsaid or maybe passed on through a trusted X-rated premie '.. a larger donation might also do it!'

Cheers

peter

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 02:14:40 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Bang on: check Brian's thread below (nt)
Message:
Anyway I can imagine MJ saying 'I'll never be able to trust you - you listened to the lies on the Forum.' Unsaid but implied 'You'll have to dedicate even harder now to get back in my good books.' Even more unsaid or maybe passed on through a trusted X-rated premie '.. a larger donation might also do it!'

Bribery! Of course! (and of course, the instructors, via 'the premie friend' pass on the implications of their 'indiscretions'. ;-)

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 23:46:24 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: What frightens me......... etc.
Message:

Is that we live in soupcan of ideas / information / relativity.

Finding homebase from which to construct a coherent view
of what should or can be done to improve the lot of mankind
is getting more difficult by the day.

At the same time schemes to improve the individual , as long as they have disposable income , proliferate .

I've got to face up to the fact that I wanted instant enlightenement , didn't get it , but carried on for 28 yrs hoping it would turn up some day as long as I , 'kept in touch'.

Sloppy thinking , you bet.

Every generation fucks up in some way.

Whatever the next one does is up to them to sort out.

There's still life in this one though , & we ( who could've been contenders) can still contend that false gods shall not prevail.

I count myself lucky to be alive to realise (at last) something that my grandfather also knew.

THE TRUTH WILL OUT.


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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:54:25 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Non-premies being protective of MJ
Message:
I tend to forget that the experience in this cult is not unlike the other ones around.
Talk to a Si baba freak and they fawn in devotional gestures just the same as we did.

The truth is the truth, the master is the servant of the truth ect ect.

I know people who have gurus who dont know my past as a premie and it is like watching a mirror image of myself as they wax devotional.

It is rather interesting to see how they try to propigate at me -and only when they come outright and tell me that I am missing an experience of god do I set them straight. Ie that I have had experience of the guru trip and have no wish to duplicate it .

Z

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:49:06 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Unless they're in a real cult....
Message:
Hi,

and have sacrificed their entire lives to a guru, non-premies haven't a clue what it's like. If I ever was in that situation, I'd tell them exactly how it is.

Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 08:28:57 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: -
To: Cynthia
Subject: Unless they're in a real cult....
Message:
it's funny but being an ex is like being a brother or sister to other exes- something i've never experienced anywhere else. i know it sounds sick and cultish, but why is it it still true for me??????????/ like only they can 'really' understand....?
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:27:27 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Simplicity was one of the drawcards
Message:
I am currently recovering from having two wisdom teeth removed. Just upped the drugs to straight codeine - ouch!!

Anyway I was reading and lolling around in minor pain and I reminisced about how, long long ago in blissful premie land there was amongst other things one very potent 'thing' that kept me coming back.

This thing that kept me coming back was the idea/feeling/belief that I was having a tangible experience of god, of my soul and of love. Not a theoretical or metaphorical experience. The idea that I was having a tangible experience(grab it with my hands type thing) of LOVE was very sexy (in a one-up intellectual, I-am-better-than-those-others type of way). It was also very very simple.

Why this is relevant now is that most of the premie arguments are so damn complicated and really require enormous mental and psychological gymnastics to even appreciate.

Maybe I'm full of it to think my ideas were any less complicated. But I am struck at how mnay levels of arcane logic some die hards have to produce to justify their practice of K, Meditation, MJ, devotion, going to programs ,videos etc etc despite all the evidence here on this forum and other places.

I think that what it means is that while they (the die hards) can make these assertions and protestations about the value of of K,M and the other acronyms (that might be a good name for a rock band KM and the acronyms) I don't think they can ever again be 'innocent' or virginal in their love/devotion to MJ and K. And that will cost them in the long run.

I gues you could say I am in romantic mood because after all I really want these people to get real and ditch the innocence. Anyway I miss that feeling of innocence and wonder how else I can get it in my life.

Cheers

Peter

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 13:57:55 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: I don't know about innocence Peter
Message:
but simplicity, and motivation for the future when you know what's coming global warming wise, was a big challenge for me in the years after leaving.

Feel I've resolved that one now, but if it hadn't been for the underlaying zeitgeist debates that go on in each successive generation I wouldn't have been able to make it, would have got darker and darker.

This is an instance where loss of innocence has been a TOTAL bonus, although not easy especially when confronted with this new attitude originally, it was quite mind blowing conceptually.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:47:39 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Simplicity was one of the drawcards
Message:
Its contrived innocence that they project. The gymnasitics required to deflect real reason is so highly developed that it smacks farsical.

'Artful dodgers'

It seems noadays I have to calculate in which circumstances I can afford to be innocent.

a conversation with a 4 year old usually wakes me up-- or being in love.

I like your altered state!

Z

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:10:48 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'Krishna Lila'
Message:
Does any info on this elite dance troupe still exist??
Stonor and I have been discussing it on the Bloke thread and I wonder if it has come up here before.

I wonder if the videos of them are still around.

Z

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 03:24:03 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: 'Krishna Lila'
Message:
One of my best friends from the ashram days went to Houston pre-Millennium to be part of Krisha Lila. Nothing more that I know of.

Marianne

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 16:52:07 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: 'Krishna Lila'
Message:
Hi Zelda,

I knew the woman who played Rada in Krishna Lila (Randy). We worked together at DECA in FLA. The first and only time I saw them perform was at Hans Jay. 75.

That's all I know about them.

Best
Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 20:23:01 (GMT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Marianne and Cynthia-
Message:
thanks- I think the Krishna lila group is one of the best bit of retro premei memoroalbiliaaa (sheesh) we could come up with if we could come up with it.

Cheers

Zelda

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 02:39:12 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: to Zelda-
Message:
Don't worry Zelda,

I know you weren't pulling my leg! And besides, if Mahblabla could dress up as Krishna, I shouldn't be surprised if he had supporting actors!

And good posts above in the Bimbo thread.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:30:15 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: To the lurking posters
Message:
This has always intrigued me.

How many lurking posters there are? Who are they and why they are lurking?

If you are one off those can you tell me please? I promise not to make any comments. Honest and across my heart. Be free to use any name.

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 13:49:32 (GMT)
From: Fred
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: To the lurking posters
Message:
Where has my post gone you motherfucking FA
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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 15:54:57 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Fred
Subject: Now now puddy cad, calm down
Message:
That is not the way to make friends with FA. FA is like the account or the roster clerk, piss him off and you will find that your pay checks take longer to arrive. Now you be a good little puddy cad and say I am sorry to FA. Go on.

tweet tweet.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 10:48:46 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: I thought lurking meant 'not posting' ??(nt)
Message:
But maybe I am wrong.

It has happened before.

Just once or twice.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 04:53:02 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au
To: Salam
Subject: OK, let's start again
Message:
I said I am not going to comments on anything and I am sticking with it. I have put my e-mail on top, Though I think this is not productive as others will not be able to be informed. I do understand the wish of people to remain anonymos and I am not asking for driver lincences. Please do not make it personal and tell me what to do or not to do. If you want to say something please do, I am sitting on my fingres so as not to reply,

Thank you for your cooperation,

you are under arrest.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 05:25:44 (GMT)
From: Lurking Poster
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: OK, let's start again
Message:
well now
after reading the other posts in this thread, I think hey
what makes salam think that anyone would want or feel the need to expose ones inner feelings and experiences on the forum????
When I express my experiences and feelings it is on a one to one basis and what goes on the internet is tailored for that medium.

And and and what I think and feel usually is summonned up by a individual issue or point.

give me instead the right to read, lurk and attack wandering premies and disagree with exs that express opinions contrary to mine
oh ya and laugh

oh and I am usually very extroverted and this is an exercise in keeping my mouth shut .

you must be having a great time not commenting

are you trying to flame us minority group or what???!??!

just testing...

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 04:29:53 (GMT)
From: Lurking Poster
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: To the lurking posters
Message:
i lurk because

I am trying to modify my addiction to the forum

I find that sometimes the negativity and intolerance that sometimes prevails here is a drag. This has been minimal of late.

Some topics are of great interest to me, but I cannot participate because I need to stay anonymouse.

However, the people that participate here are highly intelligent and forwardthinking and I find it intellictually stimulating to pop in and lurk.

the security pig latin makes me have healing belly laughs

there is something about the ex's sense of humor that cracks me up.

its bookmarked and I click in when I am online working.

I picture the various continents with and the ex's posting and since I dont have television it replaces Ophrah.

Lurking Poster Moster

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 04:22:29 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: JoyJaber@aol.com
To: Salam
Subject: To the lurking posters
Message:
Salam, the lurkers have a right to observe without making themselves known. That's the beauty of this system. It takes time to process all this stuff and begin thinking and evaluating it for yourself, instead of just buying the Maharaji party line or sweeping it under the carpet as some of my friends did. Lots of people are too shy to post, or are confused about what they think or feel about it all any more, and that's their prerogative. I personally think it's great that there may be a cast of thousands out there lurking in the ethers observing what goes on here.

If you really wanted people to make themselves known to you, perhaps you should have put your e-mail address on your post so they could communicate directly with you, instead of having to declare themselves to the whole forum. Also, Brian the webmaster may have an idea of how many people are reading the Forum each day, perhaps you could ask him.

Anyhow, welcome lurkers, long may you lurk!

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:48:22 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: To the lurking posters
Message:
Hi, I liked what you said/wrote.

Also I have experienced in many groups but most especially here that after a few people respond (often quicker than me depending on time zones etc) many different points have been made and there is only extra arcane arenas to further the discussion or simply providing support like 'Yes I agree 'etc which has often happenned as well.

Often the idea that I have something that will further the discussion or that is worthwhile requires a certain level of self confidence as well as confidence in the area discussed. When I work in groups I spend much of my time encouraging people to express their ideas, opinions and feelings - and then have them find out how valuable they are to others. Usually they are of immense value to others. My hypothesis is that there are many lurkers here who have heaps to offer - real wisdom to share that would progress this forum.

Peter

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 01:59:21 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Search the Big Three
Message:

Search the Big Three sites

A place to search all three main ex-premie sites together:

Roger's House of Drek
Ex-premie.org & DLM/Elan Vital Papers
The Truth About Maharaji

Try it. You'll be surprised what turns up.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:40:39 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Thanks Sir David-nt
Message:
sadfh
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 13:25:18 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Hey, Sir Dave, what happened to the site where
Message:
you had most of the Forum archives with their own search engine? That must have taken some time and energy. Hope it wasn't wasted the the bulbous one tried to close down your site a few months ago.
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:11:09 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: It's here
Message:
I've had a problem that I couldn't remember the email and passoword I'd used to login to the search engine config. I've now remembered it so I will add more archives to it.

Click here to search the forum archives

When will this project be finished? The answer is it never will. Because time is relative and the square on the hypopotomus is equal to the son of an aging ex-president.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:18:14 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Thanks, Sir Dave...you make things easy to find(NT
Message:
nn
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:58:52 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Search the Big Three/EXCELLENT!!!(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 04:54:43 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Search the Big Three/EXCELLENT!!!(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 20:13:55 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Fatso rawat still an embarrassment to his own cult
Message:
Yes, while there words would disagree, the actions of the former lord of the universe's cult members points very clearly to this fact.

No substantial propogation effort because talk of Knowledge invariably leads to the teacher(cult leader). By most people's standards he is a real joke even after he tries to hocus pocus them with his slippery words....

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Date: Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 17:55:23 (GMT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: Can't see the nose on their face
Message:
This is definately what's happening, I'm convinced of it. It was for me and I'm not that different from any other premie.

Premies wantd so much for M to be The One but he isn't he's an embarassment. Especially now with his drinking, debauchery, and other bad habits that make him like us but maybe a bit or a lot worse. By thinking he is on another plateau from us must really be screwing him up. And of course screwing lots of other people up at the same time. Then he and they will lie and say his only a teacher. Yuk!

When ever a premie says gooey things about M that even more of an embarrassment in my opinion - and as I say I'm not that different from other premies. I think the confusion is when premies benefit from meditating they get confused and think, as they are brainwashed to believe that it is some mystical connection with m which it isn't.

Still dripping,

Liz

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 14:52:04 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: To Stonor from the inactive files...continued
Message:
Hi Anna,

1) No malice intended when I said that I was not here to entertain or give pleasure as a primary reason for being here.

2) Biologically we are siblings, fellow species members, from the getgo. I believe we have the potential to consciously realize and enjoy the relationship in its fullness....like healthy blood cells which transfer nutrition, information and other life-giving functions to each other as they pass in the arteries. Being in a crowd around Christmastime in a primarily Christian culture, most everybody is warmer to each other and so on...as opposed to three weeks later when most everyone has pulled back into their shells.
I believe what we are feeling this time of year is the residual wake of Grace generated by the wave of one solitary life based on love, that is still lapping against the shores of our hearts, from he whose birthday many celebrate on December 25th. But that's just me. And I think he would want us to feel that feeling 24/7, don't you? And I don't mean any of this in the traditional religious context, just to be clear with you.

I'd like to feel that healthy warmth between all people all year round, would't you? Not just superficial, but real. This will take time from where humanity is at now, I have no illusions about that.

As for being trained to lie, I am definitely not into that at all. When I used to hear that kind of day/night satsang, I took it to be a way to see the whole picture and not be stuck in my own perspective. As in all things, anything can be used for good or for evil. St. Paul said that ideas and things are not good or evil in themselves, but how human beings use them give them one attribute or the other. Sure, I have seen premies use the jargon to advance a personal agenda, and I have seen others use the jargon for altruisic purposes.

My business is paying attention to my own behavior and being as clear as I can be in the here and now. That is the only place where I can be both an authority on the subject and also control and improve the output, by paying attention to my own thing and coming from that place when I interact with other beings. I try to 'be all things to all men', also as said by Paul...not as in a chameleon-like state without my own base of being, but to be able to be relatable to people wherever they are coming from, not to be stuck so far up in my own thing that I can't relate to others.

(It's early and I am in some sort of uncomfortable foggy flu-like state, so please forgive any weird words constructions, etc.)

So Anna, I hope you are having a good life and wish you the best.
Sandy

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:28:48 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: stonor21@hotmail.com
To: shp
Subject: Again?!!!
Message:
Hi Sandy,

It was great to wake up to your post this morning. Thank you for taking the time to clear that up.

We are certainly in agreement about the potential to improve our inter-life relationships. Sometimes I feel quite lucky to have worked with so many different cultures over the years; If it isn't Christmas, it's Rosh Hashanah, Chinese New Year, Ramadan, or whatever. What's sad about it is that people who are lonely feel more so at these times of all-too-often-false kindness. I think that grace is felt by all who are open to receive it, and know that I wouldn't be alive today if it weren't for the good-will of many and, yes, 'Whatever-It-Is.' Good-will, yes - fake 'niceness,' no. I actually do feel that friendly warmth all year round, even if not from all people, and I try to contribute to it as best I can. I went to a lecture a couple of years ago. A Jungian analyst was talking about a similar type of transformation and said that if there was any such thing as 'reincarnation', that she would like to be back in about a hundred years to see the change; most horribly, I burst out laughing! But I had felt, and had even said before, that this type of change would take about 200 years (and that I wanted to come back ASAP to continue the work), and thought that I had been overly optimistic!! ;-) I had wanted to find a way to contact her and explain why I reacted that way - the strangest mixture of emotions. She might be right too; there's always the exponential growth possibilities ... one of the most wonderful parts of nature, don't you think?!!

I thought quite a bit about that day/night satsang before I mentioned it to you, and it is clear that you have a great deal of integrity. I think I was more poking at m, because that example could easily lead to that kind of mind-game dishonesty/honesty. If he were honest, he could simply have said that although it might be day for us, it may well be night for others. In this world, this metaphor could easily be extended and would be less a potential tool for the distortion of truth, IMO. I'm not big on jargon/dogma, but I understand exactly what you mean about how it has been used for both 'good' and 'evil', but in this context, IMO the 'good' is less effective than the kind without the dogma.

Yeah, personal responsibility ... if everyone accepted it, it would solve a lot of problems, but I've found that many today don't know how anymore - their background is too impoverished or they have become too damaged and embittered by too many degrees of longterm abuse and hard times. This is one example where someone like m, who claims to have the knowledge of all knowledge, falls miserably short on the count of personal responsibility in taking advantage of the good will of vulnerable people. To add ignorance and insult to injury, he denies it.

I am nearing the end of my winter preparations and should have a bit more free time soon. Would you mind emailing me again? I'm hoping that you might tell me a little about your experience of the Farm If I remember correctly you mentioned it some time when I was too busy or distracted to post. I have both their cookbooks and have been curious about the Farm since I first heard of it.

Get well soon, and thank you again; it's been a good day, and a good life - I hope it's been the same for you.

Anna

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:34:26 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: And Again (empty post above)
Message:
Hi Sandy,

It was great to wake up to your post this morning. Thank you for taking the time to clear that up.

We are certainly in agreement about the potential to improve our inter-life relationships. Sometimes I feel quite lucky to have worked with so many different cultures over the years; If it isn't Christmas, it's Rosh Hashanah, Chinese New Year, Ramadan, or whatever. What's sad about it is that people who are lonely feel more so at these times of all-too-often-false kindness. I think that grace is felt by all who are open to receive it, and know that I wouldn't be alive today if it weren't for the good-will of many and, yes, 'Whatever-It-Is.' Good-will, yes - fake 'niceness,' no. I actually do feel that friendly warmth all year round, even if not from all people, and I try to contribute to it as best I can. I went to a lecture a couple of years ago. A Jungian analyst was talking about a similar type of transformation and said that if there was any such thing as 'reincarnation', that she would like to be back in about a hundred years to see the change; most horribly, I burst out laughing! But I had felt, and had even said before, that this type of change would take about 200,/i> years (and that I wanted to come back ASAP to continue the work), and thought that I had been overly optimistic!! ;-) I had wanted to find a way to contact her and explain why I reacted that way - the strangest mixture of emotions. She might be right too; there's always the exponential growth possibilities ... one of the most wonderful parts of nature, don't you think?!!

I thought quite a bit about that day/night satsang before I mentioned it to you, and it is clear that you have a great deal of integrity. I think I was more poking at m, because that example could easily lead to that kind of mind-game dishonesty/honesty. If he were honest, he could simply have said that although it might be day for us, it may well be night for others. In this world, this metaphor could easily be extended and would be less a potential tool for the distortion of truth, IMO. I'm not big on jargon/dogma, but I understand exactly what you mean about how it has been used for both 'good' and 'evil', but in this context, IMO the 'good' is less effective than the kind without the dogma.

Yeah, personal responsibility ... if everyone accepted it, it would solve a lot of problems, but I've found that many today don't know how anymore - their background is too impoverished or they have become too damaged and embittered by too many degrees of longterm abuse and hard times. This is one example where someone like m, who claims to have the knowledge of all knowledge, falls miserably short on the count of personal responsibility in taking advantage of the good will of vulnerable people. To add ignorance and insult to injury, he denies it.

I am nearing the end of my winter preparations and should have a bit more free time soon. Would you mind emailing me again? I'm hoping that you might tell me a little about your life on the Farm If I remember correctly you mentioned it some time when I was too busy or distracted to post. I have both their cookbooks and have been curious about the Farm since I first heard of it.

Get well soon, and thank you; it's been a good day, and a good life - I hope it's been the same for you.

Anna

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:37:50 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: no italic typo if this posts (read this one?)
Message:
Hi Sandy,

It was great to wake up to your post this morning. Thank you for taking the time to clear that up.

We are certainly in agreement about the potential to improve our inter-life relationships. Sometimes I feel quite lucky to have worked with so many different cultures over the years; If it isn't Christmas, it's Rosh Hashanah, Chinese New Year, Ramadan, or whatever. What's sad about it is that people who are lonely feel more so at these times of all-too-often-false kindness. I think that grace is felt by all who are open to receive it, and know that I wouldn't be alive today if it weren't for the good-will of many and, yes, 'Whatever-It-Is.' Good-will, yes - fake 'niceness,' no. I actually do feel that friendly warmth all year round, even if not from all people, and I try to contribute to it as best I can. I went to a lecture a couple of years ago. A Jungian analyst was talking about a similar type of transformation and said that if there was any such thing as 'reincarnation', that she would like to be back in about a hundred years to see the change; most horribly, I burst out laughing! But I had felt, and had even said before, that this type of change would take about 200 years (and that I wanted to come back ASAP to continue the work), and thought that I had been overly optimistic!! ;-) I had wanted to find a way to contact her and explain why I reacted that way - the strangest mixture of emotions. She might be right too; there's always the exponential growth possibilities ... one of the most wonderful parts of nature, don't you think?!!

I thought quite a bit about that day/night satsang before I mentioned it to you, and it is clear that you have a great deal of integrity. I think I was more poking at m, because that example could easily lead to that kind of mind-game dishonesty/honesty. If he were honest, he could simply have said that although it might be day for us, it may well be night for others. In this world, this metaphor could easily be extended and would be less a potential tool for the distortion of truth, IMO. I'm not big on jargon/dogma, but I understand exactly what you mean about how it has been used for both 'good' and 'evil', but in this context, IMO the 'good' is less effective than the kind without the dogma.

Yeah, personal responsibility ... if everyone accepted it, it would solve a lot of problems, but I've found that many today don't know how anymore - their background is too impoverished or they have become too damaged and embittered by too many degrees of longterm abuse and hard times. This is one example where someone like m, who claims to have the knowledge of all knowledge, falls miserably short on the count of personal responsibility in taking advantage of the good will of vulnerable people. To add ignorance and insult to injury, he denies it.

I am nearing the end of my winter preparations and should have a bit more free time soon. Would you mind emailing me again? I'm hoping that you might tell me a little about your life on the Farm If I remember correctly you mentioned it some time when I was too busy or distracted to post. I have both their cookbooks and have been curious about the Farm since I first heard of it.

Get well soon, and thank you; it's been a good day, and a good life - I hope it's been the same for you.

Anna

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:08:20 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: stonor21@hotmail.com
To: shp
Subject: To Sandy from the inactive files...continued
Message:
Hi Sandy,

It was great to wake up to your post this morning. Thank you for taking the time to clear that up.

We are certainly in agreement about the potential to improve our inter-life relationships. Sometimes I feel quite lucky to have worked with so many different cultures over the years; If it isn't Christmas, it's Rosh Hashanah, Chinese New Year, Ramadan, or whatever. What's sad about it is that people who are lonely feel more so at these times of all-too-often-false kindness. I think that grace is felt by all who are open to receive it, and know that I wouldn't be alive today if it weren't for the good-will of many and, yes, 'Whatever-It-Is.' Good-will, yes - fake 'niceness,' no. I actually do feel that friendly warmth all year round, even if not from all people, and I try to contribute to it as best I can. I went to a lecture a couple of years ago. A Jungian analyst was talking about a similar type of transformation and said that if there was any such thing as 'reincarnation', that she would like to be back in about a hundred years to see the change; most horribly, I burst out laughing! But I had felt, and had even said before, that this type of change would take about 200,/i> years (and that I wanted to come back ASAP to continue the work), and thought that I had been overly optimistic!! ;-) I had wanted to find a way to contact her and explain why I reacted that way - the strangest mixture of emotions. She might be right too; there's always the exponential growth possibilities ... one of the most wonderful parts of nature, don't you think?!!

I thought quite a bit about that day/night satsang before I mentioned it to you, and it is clear that you have a great deal of integrity. I think I was more poking at m, because that example could easily lead to that kind of mind-game dishonesty/honesty. If he were honest, he could simply have said that although it might be day for us, it may well be night for others. In this world, this metaphor could easily be extended and would be less a potential tool for the distortion of truth, IMO. I'm not big on jargon/dogma, but I understand exactly what you mean about how it has been used for both 'good' and 'evil', but in this context, IMO the 'good' is less effective than the kind without the dogma.

Yeah, personal responsibility ... if everyone accepted it, it would solve a lot of problems, but I've found that many today don't know how anymore - their background is too impoverished or they have become too damaged and embittered by too many degrees of longterm abuse and hard times. This is one example where someone like m, who claims to have the knowledge of all knowledge, falls miserably short on the count of personal responsibility in taking advantage of the good will of vulnerable people. To add ignorance and insult to injury, he denies it.

I am nearing the end of my winter preparations and should have a bit more free time soon. Would you mind emailing me again? I'm hoping that you might tell me a little about your life on the Farm If I remember correctly you mentioned it some time when I was too busy or distracted to post. I have both their cookbooks and have been curious about the Farm since I first heard of it.

Get well soon, and thank you; it's been a good day, and a good life - I hope it's been the same for you.

Anna

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:19:55 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: fa
Subject: FA: empty post..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 15:45:53 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Hi Sandy
Message:
Hi Sandy,

How's it going?

Where do you stand with the guru nowadays? Do you think you're starting to seperate yourself from it all?

Hope all is well with you and yours.

Anth the seperated

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 15:52:59 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Hi AJW
Message:
Hi Anth,

I am under the weather a bit today. Your questions are answered in my post below to Gail.

Gotta go bwow my doze.

Sandy the Traveller with conflicting maps

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:05:58 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Hi shp. Santa Rawat is in town
Message:
So what is santa Rawat bringing you this year.

Oops,

I meant to say how much money you sending to Santa Rawat on X-mas.

Do you think Rawat is wasting his time buying a 40 Million new jet. Why does not he give it up?

Have you waken up yet to the true light, or are you still beating around the bushes looking for execuses for Rawat.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:31:01 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Hi Salam
Message:
First of all, let's not talk about beating around any Bushes today, OK? I have been watching CNN and it looks like a Bush may be beating around us for the next 4 years....

I think that a righteous teacher can have anything he wants.
Your real question is do I think Maharaji is a righteous teacher.
All I can say about that is Knowledge works when I get into it.

I am making excuses for no one. No excuses are necessary.

Have a nice day.

Sandy

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:45:50 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: shp - may I suggest?
Message:
shp,

Congratulations on keeping your cool with Salam. Jim is on hiatus, so you may not have to lose it with him again, this time.

You may have noticed that some of us regulars are keeping an eye out for how you may 'evolve,' as you put it. So far, I see just the tiniest smidgeon of evolution. Your worldview hasn't really budged much.

And you still exhibit two characteristics that I find a little annoying:
One, your rose-colored Christmas spirit when it isn't even Christmas. (You are like that Christian neighbor on the Simpsons - I don't know his name).
And two, when asked a question, you avoid it shamelessly, as in your post above where the question is about the master, and you answer about the 'Knowledge.'

May I suggest that you read the article about Sai Baba, that ExTex supplies a couple threads below? I would be interested in your reactions to that expose of that master.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 17:31:45 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Way to go
Message:
Congratulations on keeping your cool with Salam. Jim is on hiatus, so you may not have to lose it with him again, this time.
-Way

Hi Way
I am working hard at keeping my cool with everybody in my life, not just folks here, although this is quite the zen school for it. As for Jim, he is just another person in the universe, albeit a strong and vocal personality, he is just another person.
He's nobody more special than you or me, and nobody who I should empower to throw me off my center by any means whatsoever. -shp

You may have noticed that some of us regulars are keeping an eye out for how you may 'evolve,' as you put it. So far, I see just the tiniest smidgeon of evolution. Your worldview hasn't really budged much. -Way

You have no idea what I am going through in my life other than what I am able to articulate here...not that I am holding back or trying to conceal anything, but my presence here is just the tip of the iceberg, as are all our lives on and offline. -shp

And you still exhibit two characteristics that I find a little annoying:
One, your rose-colored Christmas spirit when it isn't even Christmas. (You are like that Christian neighbor on the Simpsons - I don't know his name). -Way

His name is Flanders. And that's not my style. I think you have pidgeonholed me in a very one-size-fits-all kind of stereotype that does not accurately portray my position. -shp

And two, when asked a question, you avoid it shamelessly, as in your post above where the question is about the master, and you answer about the 'Knowledge.' -Way

Yeah, being indirect is not my usual way of connecting and I noticed it too. It's because I know that Knowledge works for me,
so I speak of it with confidence from direct personal experience.
Maharaji is obviously more complex and a sovereign human being besides being a teacher, so I am less prone to judge or evaluate him. It's sticky, I know. I am seeking ways and words to better articulate what I am feeling and experiencing. It ain't easy.
As a matter of fact, it's about the first time in my life I have not been able to easily express my innermost feelings and thoughts about something, especially something I have allowed so close to me. -shp

May I suggest that you read the article about Sai Baba, that ExTex supplies a couple threads below? I would be interested in your reactions to that expose of that master. -Way

I will read it. But there is that tunnel-vision that is developed with one's individual teacher and group, ya know?
And all the rest look wacky but our own. I am sure no seeker of truth on earth has fervently prayed to hook up with a fake, so obviously many on earth are being deceived right now as we speak. Question is where is the genuine article and how does one hook up with that person or experience? To compound that, my problem is not with Knowledge, but with some things that the giver of that Knowledge to me has done and said. Could I have possibly been given exactly what I asked for and am missing it and questioning it for reasons that have merit but not enough merit to scrap the whole program? Your decision and what got you there cannot be mine, I have to see it through my own eyes to know the truth of the matter. There is a saying: 'A good counterfeiter does not print three dollar bills'. So here we are in a world of change on Biblical proportions and souls in bodies are looking for a safe haven and their true home within to ride out the storm.
Maintaining a positive mental attude is crucial, even if one is confused as hell. That positive mental attitude will bring calm and calm will allow the still small voice of truth to be heard.

I'll tell you one thing that put a burr in my saddle and that is the nightly partying at the rez while the rest of us had been given direction to deny ourselves in the name of the mission and the need to have discipline and concentrate and go within without any help from Mother Nature.

I will get back to you on Sai Baba and ex tex's post when able.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 18:12:30 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Thanks for your response, and
Message:
I look forward to your further comments about the Sai Baba article.

I appreciate your forthrightness in this last post. And I like the phrase 'burr in my saddle.' You will notice some very horrific burrs in the Sai Baba piece.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 19:00:43 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Sai Baba feedback
Message:
Hi Way,

Just burned thru the Sai Baba article. Shit, man.

Is there something sepcific you wanted me to comment on?

I believe that there are very tricky spirits in human bodies on earth now impersonating God or a messenger of God who can perform seeming miracles and mind control susceptible people...like I said, a good counterfeiter doesn't make $3 bills, he makes real convincing bills in the denominations that are familiar to the public. I believe that Satan himself can and will appear as an angel (messenger) of light to try to fool the elect, those souls who are committed to the service of the Most High and living in the eternal NOW. The general public is like shooting ducks in a pond for these guys. Those with some discretion, sincerity, faith and humility are tougher to fool. I'd like to think that I am in that category. And if you meet the Devil face to face, that's good because it means you are going in opposite directions, as long as you keep moving...

As for how this translates to Maharaji.....
I sincerely don't think he is a child molestor, homosexual tripper or anything like that. He had one or more instructors who had such trips going and he seemed to look the other way from where I am sitting. Why, I don't know, but I sure don't like it one bit and I am here to tell you so. And I told him and EV as well in letters that are documented and with Anth.

It's easy to look at another 'teacher' and group and come to an almost immediate conclusion of 'FUBAR' before the last words are read. But when one has to examine on's own thing, it's not as easy, plus the fact that Maharaji has personally not done the same strange acts that Sai Baba has done. Question is, is it virtually the same thing allowing Jagdeo to run around and do his thing as Sai Baba did directly? In the pure light of objectivity, I'd have to lean to a yes, especially if my child had been one of the victims. I just crossed a bridge on this last statement. I am going to follow God, I am going to follow God, I am not coming back.

Just to lighten it up a bit:

Isaac Tigrett's opinion about it all (student-teacher relationship) being based on the personal experience and not joining a pro or con camp rang a bell. That's how it is with all relationships when you think about it....except if someone I called a friend came out as a molestor, I'd back way way off and maybe try to help from a safe distance for my family and myself.
Would they still be my friend? Yeah, but a sick friend who needs much help and protection from themselves and others. And if they stayed in denial about it, then Kabir's rule for lifesaving would take effect...you try to save someone until they start to drwon you and then you push off and head for shore.

Sai Baba's translator's/lover's name, Anil Kumar.....a divine joke or what?

Anything else you want feedback on specifically?

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 19:15:22 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Sai Baba feedback
Message:
No, no further comment necessary. From what you now say, you obviously understood what I was hoping you would understand. Keep in touch, and best wishes.
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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 15:11:13 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: How goes the battle, SHP?
Message:
Are you still into K & M? I hope not, for your sake. Have you noticed the push for money? They are even calling me. M needs the cash for the new plane.

We were used for years buddy. Remember when Marolyn talked about how the world uses you but it is only grace when M uses you. M never uses people in the way the world does--OBVIOUSLY. The world gives something in exchange!

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 15:46:33 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: I prefer to see it as evolution, not a battle.
Message:
Are you still into K & M? I hope not, for your sake. Have you noticed the push for money? They are even calling me. M needs the cash for the new plane. -Gail

Am I 'into K & M....' I meditate infrequently even though I always feel good when I do. The reason for that is my present state of being with regard to Maharaji and all the flak. I am not on cruise control, but rather going slowly in second gear, and noticing what look like yellow flags being put up along the way on this site, not just angry spiteful ones, but sincere and very strong ones. Although I see what you see, read the Journeys and Forums, am aghast at some of it as you are, there is something that is telling me that for all of the righteous raves and injured parties strewn along the Way, they (we) all may well become less than a footnote in the big picture down through time and history....And Knowledge being freely distributed to whoever wants it all over the world will claim the headlines of history.
And Maharaji's human frailties, very expensive possessions, methods of relaxation, and all the other stuff pertaining to him
may well be dwarfed by the overwhelming acceptance of the Knowledge worldwide over a period of years to come. The seeds have just been and are being sown. It's still very early in this Sat Yuga, just around dawn. His 35 years seem like alot to us in our little lives, but in the framework of history, it's just a speck. Do I like this setting of events being witness to abuses
and personal injuries to children in the name of God and the spreading of Knowledge? Hell no. I don't like to see anybody get dissed, hurt or abused in any way. But is there something going on that is bigger than all of us planetary-wise, I think.
I realize my answer to you may seem convoluted and confused a bit, and that may well be my present state. Telling you how I really feel here and not watering it down is the path to freeing myself from any illusions I am under. the truth does set us free, both the truth of what Knowledge reveals and the spoken word of that which is in our hearts in the here and now. -shp
We were used for years buddy. Remember when Marolyn talked about how the world uses you but it is only grace when M uses you. M never uses people in the way the world does--OBVIOUSLY. The world gives something in exchange! -Gail

My personal experience is that good stuff does happen when I invest my energy into Maharaji in any way. But now I am even scrutinizing that phenomena. I am not simply looking for a carrot and stick experience, no matter how superior the carrot is. As for the world giving something in exchange, my experience is that the world is a crap shoot.

What always seems to work is when I am centered within myself and coming from a place of pure (a relative term) and altruistic motivation and dedicating the fruits of my actions to the Almighty, the greater good, even if what I am doing is for myself, something good always happens, and if something weird happens too, I am given the insight to see the purpose and reason for it and not be freaked out about it.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:26:17 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: ******EVERYONE DON'T MISS THIS*****
Message:
shp my man, I cann't tell you how happy I am for you, welcome to my/our bosom. You are a perfect example of a little donkey that have been refusing to move. Now you have made it, without anyone having to dangle a carrot for you. I do not pray anymore, but I wish you good luck and take is easy.

Salam

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:33:24 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: So Salam, it's Ok for you to call me a donkey but
Message:
when I compared you to a chihuahua you called 'foul'.

I hate double standards, don't you?

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 18:45:12 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: You call Salam a chihuahua too?
Message:
Look sheep, I mean, shp, who is the REAL chihuahua here? Leave Salam alone (not that he needs me) I just felt like saying hello my dear 'friend'...LOL

Perhaps all is a boomerang? Once more throwing with your eyes close?

What you experience as freedom is not REAL freedom!!

Get it, once and for all.

Question EVERYTHING. How else are you going to find YOUR truth? At least for a day you need to stop being a sheep. Have you done it already and decided to continue being one or you never tried? I am an EX-premie and I feel great! No rotten vegetables. He is a lier. Nice to see you back. I got sad when you left.;)

SB, in love with life.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 19:09:18 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: This is getting weird
Message:
Just because my initials are shp does not mean I am a sheep.
I can think of some good ones for your initials too.

You don't know me.

Don't assume you do.

I was talking to Salam about his using an animal reference to describe me after all hell broke loose when I did the same thing a while back to describe you. I was even accused of being a racist, which I am msot certainly not. You know not of what you speak.

If you are happy, congratulations. Just don't hit me on the head with your bliss, OK?

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:41:18 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: What can I say
Message:
I am cracking up here.

Rofl

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 16:58:54 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: What you can say
Message:
...perhaps something like,

'I understand that you were as innocent when you referred to me as a chihuahua as I was when I refrerred to you as a donkey and all the racist accusations, criticisms and thin skin were bullshit.'

That's what you can say when you catch your breath.

I like to keep the record staight with people I communicate with.
I don't like lumpy rugs from sweeping things under it.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 17:38:56 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: What you can say
Message:
shp

Stop being such a big baby. Are you looking for some understanding and compassion from me? Or do you want me to say sorry? There is nothing to apologise to. I can hardly remember you calling me a whatsisname. I thought that was directed towards SB then, that is why I got my big stick and gave you a good hiding. Shish. That is me, I do lose it every now and then.

But hey, I do understand that you must be under pressure with that guru character. I mean having to let go of something that you belived in for so long is hard. So I do not think I want to hassle you (at least not too much).

I just want to say that the first step in leaving blubber is seperating him from k and realising that you do not need blubber for k to work. The next step is finding you're own way in life and coming into term with it.

Cheer up,

Life is not made to give to anyone but yourself. Enjoy it.

Salam (feeling a bit sheepish)

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 18:01:48 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: You are doing the same thing some premies do
Message:
...being an asshole and hiding behind your belief or disbelief of Maharaji. Your personal conduct is yours and not to be tagging along on the coattails of ex-premie.org. Same goes for premies, their individual conduct needs to stand alone and be straight and not tagging along on the coattails of maharaji.org, EV.org or any other dotorg. You know exactly what I am talking about and are just not copping to the truth. If that's the way you want to be, then go try to convert somebody else. I need to have clear dialog with people who are astrally honest and don't play mind games at this point. Because you know what? My life is NOW and I need to have straight talk NOW, not some mumbo jumbo from a groupie, be they of either persuasion.
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 00:03:09 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Oh yeah. Your mother is fat too.
Message:
What's with the NOW.

And what the hell is an astrally honest person.

You are fucking around mate. The only astrally not honest prick I know of is fat tub. I am not the one that is screwing your life you boofhead, remember that. You should say, 'thank you Salam' for kicking the crap out of me because I need it'. Now that is straight talk. If I don't kick the crap out of you will be another premie maggot.

I said to you that I do understand you situation:

But hey, I do understand that you must be under pressure with that guru character. I mean having to let go of something that you believed in for so long is hard. So I do not think I want to hassle you (at least not too much).

Did you read it you bum, or are you so bloody blinded with your little dilemma that you consider anything said to you is an attack on your person?

There, stick it up your nose. Also I happen to like little donkeys. They are cute, fluffy and don't have fleas on them.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 00:55:50 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: One twisted, ex-premie, premie, whatever you are
Message:
You will not take any credit for anything I decide or don't decide. You are a rude asshole, whatever your beliefs may be.
You think you are God's gift to me? You are no better than premies who are full of themselves and self-righteous on everybody. You have a teacher complex, and I am not paying the
tuition of kissing your ass to enter. Go find somebodyt else to save.

By the way, astral honesty is being honest in the vibe, being honest about the invisible attitudes and such that come out of you. You are not astrally honest in this exchange, whether you are right or wrong about Maharaji. Take responsibility for your own actions and words and stop hiding behind him in a negative way the same way that some premies hide behind him in a postiive way and still run their astrally dishonest trips. Get it now?
It's not about Maharaji right here, right now. It's about how we two are communicating. If you don't get it, come back later.
I am talking to some others here who understand and agree with the same basic agreements to successful communication that I have, so don't worry about me, I'm covered.

When you are trying to help someone, you gotta be kind. You are not kind, you are sarcastic, cutting, and hypocritical. I don't need that right now. You did not cop to the fact that you compared me to an animal and it was harmless. I simply remeinded you that when I compared SB to an animal, you screamed bloody murder and even got it to the point of people calling me a racist, which I am most definitely not. So if you don't get it, keep hiding within this group and remain the immature, bratty little ego that you have been showing to me.

Leave me alone until you can meet me on even ground.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 03:18:30 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Am a meat popstickle
Message:
So shp, how would you classify yourself now?

I cann't tell you how happy I am that your so pissed off the way you are. It is good for the soul.

No I don't think it is a problem of communication between you and me. YOU ARE ANGRY not because of me, I am only pushing your bottom you silly man. Your anger is natural. You have lost faith and trust in something that you believed was impeccable. You feel that you were betrayed that is what's doing it. I only happened to be standing (picking my nose) at the same cross road where you are. Am I right or not?

And do not talke to me about fat tub. I hate the guy personally. I have no connection with him and I do not hide behind him or any group, I am freelance agent, and I work on my own. I though you already knew that. OK you are not a racist so snap out of it.

I did not know that you have become a councilor for exes behind him in a negative way the same way . When did that happen?

At least you realize that when the shit hits the fans that am only trying to help you.
Any way, I am sure you will make it, it just takes time. Hell, you’re complaining about leaving and help and how bad it is. I was admitted to a psychiatric hospital because I wanted to kill myself when I was at your stage. Glad I did not. Fatty is not worth it.

Even ground. What is that?

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 15:52:59 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Just be still and listen up
Message:
Salam,

Whatever your intentions may be, you come off really weird, OK?
You made a comment about my mother, however flippant it was.
How do you know if my mother is dead or alive or lying in a hospital dying? Your verbal and people skills need alot of work to effectively carry your message effectively, at least to me.

As for being angry, I think you are still the angry one. For as much deep change as I am going through now, I do not feel angry. I have learned that the calmer I remain, the clearer I can see what is happening and what my path is through the confusion. Like sitting on the shore of a peaceful pond and looking for my own reflection, the stiller the water is, the better I can see. And you come along and throw a handful of pebbles in over my shoulder and tell me it's for my own good and that you are here to help etc etc. Well, you are wrong, Salam.

As righteous as your inner intentions may be, you are coming off really shitty out here where other people live too, at least with me. Take your 'tough love' trip elsewhere, I don't want or need it, or speak to me as you would wish to be spoken to. That is the Golden Rule, which I still think works when applied. And quit projecting your residual anger on me and deal with it.
Thank you for caring, even in your own awkward and insulting way, and now just leave me alone for awhile and think about what I have said here.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 17:44:50 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Oh I see
Message:
Sorry, I did not realize you where trying to be at peace sitting in front of this serene scene and contemplating. I must have sounded like one of those gypsies with his horses and trinkets banging along.

Except I do not see any sign saying DO NOT DISTURBE, shp is crying on his spilt milk.

If you want peace, I think you have come to the wrong place. I did not ask MD to write about dickheadji and his drinking habits did I? You were the one that did and it hit you right in the face and you do not know how to deal with it. Neither I am the one that is carrying one with this, if you do not like it then stop talking about it. What you gone soft all of a sudden? Look around you and tell me how many are in your dilemma, nearly everyone.

You know why am angry? I tell why am angry. I am fucking angry because some fat so-called humanitarian teacher is about to buy himself a 40 million-dollar toy. I am angry when I see people being ripped off by this same sleaze bag in the name of truth. I am angry when I hear someone jumping from the window because some bastard says so. I am angry to read about someone else sticking his head in the oven and committing suicide. I am angry because I know people that have tried killing themselves including me for a worthless piece of shit. That is why am angry about. And I will be dammed if am going to sit down and let it go because you can not cope. Got it.

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Date: Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 19:56:43 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: If you are angry at someone, then they control you
Message:
Salam,

Chill. Calm down. Not for me - it has nothing to do with me and if I can cope as you said for what reason I know not - but for you and all the systems in your body that you are stressing out. If you stroke out, you are no good to anybody. You can accomplish more coming from calm and focus than anger and emotion.

I know peace is within. That's not why I come here, as you said.
You said alot of things about me that are inaccurate, just flailing about, saying whatever, and then writing it all off because you were ANGRY. I don't accept that as an excuse.
Stop being angry - you can still be serious, intense, passionate, ready to go for it, and all that - and not be angry, and you will do better for yourself and everyone else involved too. The human species is repelled by anger and is attracted to calmness in the face of crisis. I know that is the direction I am going, and it feels good and right. What you do with this information is up to you. I offer it in good faith, knowing how it used to feel to be caught up in anger and unable to break free at the time.
Reclaim your energy. Whoever you are angry at is getting all that energy you are burning. If you think someone has transgressed against you, the best defense is to pray for and bless that person, and stay clear of them. But anger binds you to the one you are angry at.

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 16:31:26 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: steve.mulley@clix.pt
To: shp
Subject: Hi shp
Message:
Just to wish you clarity in your thinking and to say that we're not all premie bashers here.

If you ever feel to you can e mail me and talk confidentially. As you may be aware I only stopped being involved in feb this year and I was fairly in touch at my point of departure.

Namaste

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 01:49:46 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Pardon me for reading you,but the tuition comment
Message:
is funny.
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 01:53:40 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: By the way......
Message:
What do you mean you meditate infrequently?
I feel me breath all the time!
Hey just link up!
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 15:58:26 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: By the way......
Message:
You know what I mean.

You just wanted to hook up with me a bit and share some juice and are using this post as an excuse to do so. So Bill, why don't you just come out and say 'hi, sandy, how the hell are ya, old friend?'

How you doin'? How's the family?

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 07:59:50 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: By the way.....that was cute.
Message:
Hey Bill,

I found that little comment very amusing. Inspiring the premies to remember their breath all the time !

I actually was very perplexed when ol fatcon said to us that an hours meditation in the morning would do the business. I found that the breath was an effective tool to keep me in the moment and focussed. In fact I was most of the time a rather pathetic meditator in the formal sense. Think think think beg beg beg type of stuff.

I still sometimes bring myself into breath awareness while I'm doing my day's deeds but I don't look at it as 'spiritual' merely a physiological way to stay relaxed and aware.

Why do you think Miragey dropped that constantly be in the breath awareness thing when his dad was so obviously into it? Could it be that he found it too distracting? That it stopped him from fully focussing on his material greed and plans to go shopping for the next goody?

Anyway Bill , if you carry on being so inspiring the premies will start transfering their allegience and devotion to you , watch out!!!

Best wishes
Hal

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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 14:46:56 (GMT)
From: Billdha
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Ha Ha Hal
Message:
I would be a kindly lord, and might offer my cheek (face or fanny depending on...) instead of my feet.

A freind of mine went to soulth africa to see prem and a person in the audience asked about feeling the breath all the time and mr rawat insisted that was not to be done. The premie continued and prem said 'maybe this knowledge is not for you.'

So, I am really asking the premies to disobey agya and dont just feel the breath for 15 minutes between other 'techniques' in a hopeful effort to merge with the infinite bliss.

If there was an infinite bliss possible, charanand would have got thier at least once. OR BE There permanently by now.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 20:18:19 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: straight talk
Message:
Okay, here goes:

You talk a lot about god and christ, I would suggest examining the whole kit and caboodle while you are about it, it can actually make it a lot easier to deal with your feelings about Maharaji.

You appear to me to be concerned that you will lose your centre, and your equilibrium. Please, don't be. My experience was that when I stopped meditating, the storm calmed down. A friend recently told me that after a months break from meditating, he understood what I was talking about, that he had experienced the same thing. This is a longtime premie who has always said similar things about K as you have. It is hard to understand that just because when you get up from meditating you feel good, it could also be creating the mental waves that make you run back for more.

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Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 19:15:35 (GMT)
From: Ren (and Eeeyore)
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: What's wrong with being a chihuahua (or a donkey?)
Message:
click
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Date: Sat, Nov 18, 2000 at 05:18:12 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Salam, shp, et al
Subject: That was a fun read...
Message:
Hey you wacky characters....from where I'm sitting...
You are all...no...WE are all on the same side of the fence!
That was a fun little roller coaster ride of a thread to read and you know what???
I LOVE ALL YOU KNUCKLEHEADS!
(So to speak...)
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