mike the karmapa -:- my age and qualifications -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:14:07 (GMT)

__ hamzen -:- Dignity !!!! -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:38:54 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Now THAT was VERY impressive! -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:22:43 (GMT)

__ __ Frank -:- Now THAT was VERY impressive! -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:57:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ ham -:- No illusions about the raver scene Frank, -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:55:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ salam -:- No illusions about the raver scene Frank, -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 06:01:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Gimme some of that melatonin doctor -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:05:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- sorry ham--they tried those pills on me... -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 09:24:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Prozac works for someone I know brilliantly -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 10:23:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Prozac does not work for me -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 14:17:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- did I really write all this -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 23:49:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- All 3 sites are real player -:- Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 22:41:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Frank -:- illusions about the raver scene Ham -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 04:29:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ ham -:- It's obviously different over here then -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 06:10:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Frank -:- It's obviously different over here then -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:40:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- the gentle hedomism of house, love it -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 08:28:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Frank -:- Good morning, trainspotter -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 09:25:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Is there really a t-shirt? -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:00:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Coach -:- T-Shirts -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:07:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- T-Shirts -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 05:27:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Frank -:- Is there really a t-shirt? Yes -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:04:44 (GMT)

karmapa -:- karma -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:50:16 (GMT)

__ DeProGram Anand Ji -:- karma -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 10:13:21 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- karma - the logical deduction -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:33:08 (GMT)

__ __ karmapa -:- karma - the logical deduction -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:41:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- You didn't read my post correctly -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:50:59 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Wow, that's really interesting! -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:00:04 (GMT)

__ __ Frank /Thelma -:- Wow, that's really interesting! -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:04:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ Frank -:- Wow, that's really interesting! -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:05:33 (GMT)

CultbusterUK -:- Oxnard sold out shock!!!!! -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:21:24 (GMT)

__ Marianne -:- Doesn't say sold out though???? -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 20:50:49 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- Oxnard sold out shock!!!!! -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 10:46:02 (GMT)

__ Roger eDrek -:- I'm good. Got my in before deadline. (nt) -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:24:12 (GMT)

__ __ janet -:- made your booby shirt yet?? transfer paper's cheap -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:46:18 (GMT)

__ __ Frank -:- Oh bliss, oh joy -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:46:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ GERRY -:- Wild ass leap into the wild blue yonder... -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 21:43:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Carol -:- Maybe a good plan for you: a wild ass leap... nt -:- Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 19:54:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- I'm not sure what you mean, dear... -:- Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 23:57:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Frank -:- Do you know a WA Supreme Court Justice? -:- Tues, Jan 09, 2001 at 01:43:43 (GMT)

Aussi Ji -:- ex premie site is a Lila -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:40:17 (GMT)

__ sam -:- making a dressing for the vegies- nt -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 06:58:34 (GMT)

__ Roger eDrek -:- Yeah, right. And I'm a plant. (nt) -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:18:59 (GMT)

__ __ Aussi Ji -:- i see youv'e still got that irony bypass syndrome -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 04:43:23 (GMT)

__ Frank -:- ex premie site is a Lila -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:44:31 (GMT)

__ __ janet -:- charanand said, a long time ago, that even... -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:14:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ Frank -:- charanand said, a long time ago, that even... -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:55:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- He'd better get a move on ....... -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:28:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- We've turned the forests into paper and... -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:26:35 (GMT)

karmapa -:- everyone -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 20:38:47 (GMT)

__ Nigel -:- Patronising sod -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 21:04:17 (GMT)

__ C.G. -:- everyone -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 08:04:17 (GMT)

__ hamzen -:- I'm sure you mean well, but.... -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:31:04 (GMT)

__ janet -:- right you are. remember-jim's a trial lawyer.. -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:36:00 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- That kind of advice is patronizing and offensive -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:47:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ janet -:- law also teaches you to destroy undeserving people -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 10:29:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Thanks, Janet, I'm gonna burn my robes now -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 21:15:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Rick -:- unbelievable -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 16:32:32 (GMT)

__ __ Frank -:- jim's a trial lawyer..it's his job to be nasty -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:48:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ Oliver -:- Not around here it's not! -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 17:11:19 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Thank you, Lord, for sending us a teacher -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 21:24:33 (GMT)

__ __ karmapa -:- Thank you, Lord, for sending us a teacher -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:21:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ C.g. -:- May they be free from sorrow.... -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 08:15:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Well, you got at least one thing right -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:54:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ ham -:- And not just obscurity either -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:22:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Frank -:- one thing right -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:00:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ ham -:- If only Frank -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:27:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Frank -:- If only, Ham -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 03:55:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham it up -:- Careful big boy -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 05:57:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Frank -:- You old ham you -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:54:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Frank -:- PS You old ham you -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:56:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ carol -:- Sorry do not agree! -:- Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 09:31:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Frank -:- Herbs and opera -:- Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 18:07:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Carol -:- I like Puccini (sp?) -:- Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 19:50:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Frank -:- I like Puccini too OT -:- Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 20:25:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- What exactly are you trying to protect, Frank? -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:06:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Frank -:- What exactly are you trying to protect, Frank? -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:09:00 (GMT)

__ __ Frank -:- Stonor, they're stoning the newcomers again. -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:09:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ Aussi Ji -:- I'll second and third that! -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:27:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Frank -:- I'll second and third that! -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:36:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jerry -:- You call that 'stoning'? -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:27:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Frank -:- You call that 'stoning'? -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:31:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- And besides.... -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:00:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- You call that 'stoning'? -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:48:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ karmapa -:- You call that 'stoning'? -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:03:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- That's not why I'm here at all -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:35:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Look at you! -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:12:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ karmapa -:- judging jimmy -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:45:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- You should be writing to Elan Vital, not us -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 05:35:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- No gurus you say, yet who's maitrya or new-ager -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:40:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- ham (OT) -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:56:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Will do, this guys not worth the effort -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 03:10:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ mike -:- judging jimmy -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:37:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- The reason to follow my advice is this -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:05:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Frank -:- You call that 'stoning'? -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:07:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Frank -:- You call that 'stoning'? No- but cold as stone -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:53:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Fuck false bravado -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:02:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hey, Jer, would you email me? -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:13:08 (GMT)

__ Frank -:- karma and truth -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 21:03:00 (GMT)

__ __ la-ex -:- 'Truth and Reconciliation'-EV-why not for M?.... -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 21:43:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Your historical examples of reconcilation -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:51:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Frank -:- Your historical examples of reconcilation -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:57:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Hey Sandy! Check out Frank's post above! -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:13:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Frank -:- Hey Sandy! Check out Frank's post above! -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:02:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ karmapa -:- Hey Sandy! Check out Frank's post above! -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:58:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Hey Sandy! Check out Frank's post above! -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:05:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- I know how to spell one of my family's names, kid -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:00:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Is this related to your family -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 16:34:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Yes, Salam ... -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 18:03:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- or maybe great-grandmother ... (who cares) ...(nt) -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 18:07:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Wow , you have a typing speed to die for. ( nt) -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:14:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Frank -:- okay, so I cheated -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:01:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ Frank -:- 'Truth and Reconciliation'-why not for M?.... -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:05:00 (GMT)

JHB -:- Kumbh Mela (ot) -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 20:04:40 (GMT)

__ janet -:- Kumbh Mela-satpal's bound to have a full house/nt -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:51:40 (GMT)

__ shp -:- no fishing downstream Ganges region for now..nt -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:02:31 (GMT)

Oliver -:- Who said this? (It was'nt me so douse the flames) -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:28:03 (GMT)

__ Jerry -:- Who said this? (It was'nt me so douse the flames) -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 21:36:50 (GMT)

__ __ Jerry -:- Actually... -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:00:03 (GMT)

__ Carol -:- Don't know either,but likewise agree it is good nt -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 20:43:49 (GMT)

__ Fact -:- Don't know: Is good. NT -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 18:46:47 (GMT)

__ __ Oliver -:- Look. -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 12:02:58 (GMT)

shp -:- Turner: Our dialog is continued here -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 16:44:29 (GMT)

__ shp -:- Turner: Still awaiting your reply and more... -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 18:16:19 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- A Formal Request Made of Sanford Pass -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:33:04 (GMT)

__ __ shp -:- A Formal Reply to James Heller -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 15:36:00 (GMT)

__ janet the schwartz -:- heyheyhey--I AM The Schwartz! I DECIDE who I'm in! -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:12:47 (GMT)

__ shp -:- FA, can you retrieve a message I was sending? -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 16:49:23 (GMT)

AJW -:- European Latvian Night. -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 14:11:16 (GMT)

__ JHB -:- European Latvian Night. -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 14:34:37 (GMT)

__ __ Marianne -:- Sign me up!!!! and OT -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 15:50:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ Robyn -:- Sign me up!!!! and OT -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 04:44:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ Mystery Guest -:- Sign me up!!!! too. (NT) -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:04:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- No problem -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 22:34:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- No problem -:- Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 00:27:40 (GMT)

sam -:- brainslag OT -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 09:26:50 (GMT)

__ Aussi Ji -:- brainslag OT -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 10:46:14 (GMT)

TED Farkel -:- OK,Mr.eDrek,its service,service,service... -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 05:52:41 (GMT)

__ Roger eDrek -:- TED, this is incredibly BAD! -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:16:23 (GMT)

__ __ TED Farkel -:- Don't panic,eDrek,lite at end of tunnel,maybe..... -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 04:50:46 (GMT)

__ Boo Radley -:- TED, Oh, Mr. TED.... -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:30:17 (GMT)

__ __ Roger eDrek -:- No, no more ladies night, Boo -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:28:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ Frank -:- May the Farce be with you -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:11:34 (GMT)

Bazza -:- Ohmygod - Its BLODDERS!!! -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 04:26:22 (GMT)

__ Big John -:- Ohmygod - Its BLODDERS!!! -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 14:24:59 (GMT)

__ __ Bazza -:- Anthony Tunbridge Wells? -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:50:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ BigJohn -:- Anthony Tunbridge Wells? -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:25:30 (GMT)

__ __ JHB -:- Welcome Big John! -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 14:36:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ Big John -:- Welcome Big John! -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 14:45:46 (GMT)

__ Frank /Thelma -:- Ohmygod - Its BLODDERS!!! -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 05:34:38 (GMT)

__ __ Bazza -:- Did you read his bio? -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 05:47:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ Frank -:- Dear George -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 08:21:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Dear George -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 10:09:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ C.George -:- Dear George -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:08:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- George:Yes I knew nick died -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 08:38:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Me too Jeth'. -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 13:00:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ Monmot -:- I Don't Know About George, But His Wife -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:20:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Frank -:- I Don't Know About George, But His Wife -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 08:22:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Bazza -:- I Don't Know About George, But His Wife -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:23:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Frank -:- But His Wife's -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 08:27:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- er, Frank...this is a family show!! -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 12:03:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Frank -:- Point taken -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 18:59:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ suchab... -:- 'she would kill for the Master'[like Fakiranand(nt -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 07:36:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Yeah, And Vote For Gun Control :)))) nt -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:35:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ salam -:- Where is Buffy?.......nt -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:15:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ such -:- No need moola? like,'we're already successful' (nt -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 07:29:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ salam -:- not me. -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 14:10:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Curious George -:- Perhaps it's not funny.... -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:32:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- Brian and Katie could be in trouble -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 15:29:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- Lost your e-mil add. again........ -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:07:25 (GMT)

wondering -:- Fine Dining -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 02:47:04 (GMT)

__ Lesley -:- Fine Dining -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 20:14:41 (GMT)

__ Katie -:- It was Gail! -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:13:19 (GMT)

__ __ C.G. -:- another story -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:41:16 (GMT)

__ __ wondering -:- Was the cook Valerio? -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 05:31:14 (GMT)

__ __ Oliver -:- Hi Katie (OT,nt) -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:19:43 (GMT)

__ Bazza -:- Could this be it? -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:21:56 (GMT)

__ Rick -:- Was it TD? -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 05:15:32 (GMT)

__ __ Monmot -:- It May Have Been Lotus Eater/Lesley nt -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:15:23 (GMT)

salam -:- Re:you're post on AG................ot -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 02:01:01 (GMT)

__ Sir Dave -:- Not a heart attack -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 02:31:57 (GMT)

__ __ Salam -:- You sure -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:12:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ Mr Bubblehead -:- You sure -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 12:27:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Dear Mr. Bubblehead -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:26:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Mr B -:- hahahaha -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 08:10:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Thanks for the english lesson -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 13:31:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Oliver -:- According to BBC World service he appered on...... -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:13:59 (GMT)

__ salam -:- This post is to Sir Dave....nt -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 02:03:46 (GMT)

__ __ Oliver -:- This post is too Sir Dave and Salam....... -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 11:35:22 (GMT)

Stonor -:- FYI: VDT-related health risks (OT) -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 00:40:56 (GMT)

__ Oliver -:- Was this before or after receiving my spam (OT) nt -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:16:43 (GMT)

__ __ Stonor -:- It's no protection against spam! -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 19:29:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ Salam -:- ring ring. Sonor dating service. -:- Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 05:44:51 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- sucker -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 01:46:24 (GMT)

__ __ Stonor -:- sucker not -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 02:17:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ Salam -:- Oops. -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:19:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Joy -:- PowerBook is the Way to Go -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:40:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- PowerBook is the Way to Go -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 14:39:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- I already told you -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 13:49:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Yeah, yeah, yeah, Salam -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 14:45:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- 10 bucks u lose -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 16:38:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joy -:- Smoking and Macs -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:31:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Katie - check this out! (ot ot) -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 16:50:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Calling for help are we? -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:08:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Katie - check this out! (ot ot) -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:04:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Katie - check this out! (ot ot) -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 19:16:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Katie - my hero, you're back -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:55:04 (GMT)

gerry -:- goober war bureau -:- Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 22:41:24 (GMT)

__ such -:- Let 'Operation Holi' begin![Synchronize watches(nt -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 07:19:28 (GMT)

__ Antonio -:- Let's play (nt) -:- Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 23:11:29 (GMT)

__ __ Tim G -:- Questionable credentials of m -:- Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 23:56:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ Salam -:- I got the plan ready for action...nt -:- Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 14:24:45 (GMT)

Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:14:07 (GMT) From: mike the karmapa Email: None To: Everyone Subject: my age and qualifications Message:

I am 22 year old and still am finding that all you 40 years old fools still dont know how respond with dignity and have shown me why I will only respond today because you dont have more than a sentence or two amongst the three of you. I URGE DIM AND SPANK TO LOOK AT THEIR RESPONSE PAGE IF YOU DID NOT RECEIVE THEM ON THE MAIN FORUM.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:38:54 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: mike the karmapa Subject: Dignity !!!! Message:

With the kind of patronising tone you've turned up here with, sunshine you should be out dropping e's and going to raves, not stuck in the kind of new-age shallowness you've displayed here so far. Sorry but piss off, if that's the the level you are operating at, and piss off is the only energy worth wasting on that kind of post, jesus. Get a life.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:22:43 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: mike the karmapa Subject: Now THAT was VERY impressive! Message:

So a temper tantrum, huh? This is cute. You are very wise indeed, teach. Hip to the fact that we really have nothing to say and yet so little receptivity to such words of wisdom that might come our way. Do you think taht maybe if we were more open we'd be able to recognize the light of knowledge that's burning so bright in you? I'm just guessing but I'd bet you have a really strong aura? Am I right?

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:57:05 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Jim and Ham Subject: Now THAT was VERY impressive! Message:

Ham, He's American. What finally gave him away is the phrase '40 year old fools.' He's never yet actually met an adult smarter than him. The raver scene here is not as romantic as it is where you live or in your dreams. Jim, I've never actually talked to you before but you were used as an intimidation tactic in email and here and were very much part of my baptism by fire. So I didn't really have high hopes. But as a businessman I respect all lawyers who respect contracts. Better to have said to the boy: 'Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah, I know all about karma. It's called contractual law in the west and, if all contracts are honored, life goes smoothly.' But I had a teenager once. I'm glad it only lasts until 28 years nowadays. Just had a shower and put on my nice new enjoyinglife.com tee shirt and feel so blissed out. It's nice to be clean.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:55:26 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Frank Subject: No illusions about the raver scene Frank, Message:

but a bit of stuff like that might actually save him a lot of bother in the long run, especially if he met people who understood about chemicals in the brain and where 'spiritual' experiences are generated from etc etc Been going to do's for 10 years, you have to get choosey about events, but can't speak for the us of a, but easy to find QUALITY underground stuff here, and very easy to find really good individuals. Yeah plenty of shit heads too, but shit heads are easier to take who are on e's rather than alcohol say. Or as a good mate of mine said when he went to his first events, 'it was the first time I'd ever been out dancing and not seen a fight'! That sums it up really. Loads of events, especially commercial do's where as a female you'll get groped, but much less than outside the house scene.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 06:01:59 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: ham Subject: No illusions about the raver scene Frank, Message:

got you're e-mail. Read it few times, can not grasp what place you're coming from. Also those links that you posted, do not seem to operate, I happen to disconect my cookies, I do not all Flash to run, no appelets, active-x, javascript. Real player is too heavy on using computer resources so I removed it. Do you think that could be a problem ?;:) You're chemistry theory makes sense, but my gut feeling tells me something is not correct. It is like the problem of the egg and the chicken, who comes first. Look at the situation of death. Someone dear to you dies, the emotional impact triggers a set of reactions that according to what you claim can be traced back to a chemical change in the brain. you also say (assuming what type of chemical it is) that I can feel grive if I was injected with these chemicals. Still the question remains, which is first and what is real. what you saying also is that somewhere in the near future, someone will come up with some pill to take to stop grive when it happens, that really sucks. However, I do not see how your theory explains the awakining process from a cult. I would have thought that 20 or 30 years involvement would have generated enough chemicals in the body to cause saturation and perhaps physical changes (e.g. notice long time premie, u can smell them a miles away). so how can one wakes up one day (and I mean overnight) and decides that it is time to turn the page. What happened to all the chemicals? Did something happened to the body to break all that down? Please explain?

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:05:50 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: salam Subject: Gimme some of that melatonin doctor Message:

got you're e-mail. Read it few times, can not grasp what place you're coming from. Also those links that you posted, do not seem to operate, I happen to disconect my cookies, I do not all Flash to run, no appelets, active-x, javascript. Real player is too heavy on using computer resources so I removed it. Cookies de-activated no problem. PC I presume? What operating system are you using? The pirate station is definitely real player, will re-check big chill & radio1. If you do grasp where I'm coming from salam, let us know, I haven't a clue and I'm quite happy with that. But I do know that a lot of the issues I had to resolve when I left cultthink, I found people out there, as a group in the broadest sense, had come up with answers. Issues that I thought related purely to being a premie were nothing of the sort. On the simplest level, take gurus and spirituality, it's well developed socially amongst the younger generation that gurus are old school wank, we've evolved past that point, and that spiritual experiences are about your angle on those experiences, not that there is a seperate spiritual realm. Well understood that a lot of the misunderstanding in the 60's was because people didn't understand how much of what we experience is generated from our head stance. In other words if you have some experience of something we would have called cosmic on acid, nowadays accepted that it's the drug, so they just accept the experience as a chemical experience, brain changes, no big deal, doesn't mean god's visiting you. Also that we aren't just passive receptacles of experience but that we can direct it and change it, not a big deal. You're chemistry theory makes sense, but my gut feeling tells me something is not correct. It is like the problem of the egg and the chicken, who comes first. Look at the situation of death. Someone dear to you dies, the emotional impact triggers a set of reactions that according to what you claim can be traced back to a chemical change in the brain. you also say (assuming what type of chemical it is) that I can feel grive if I was injected with these chemicals. Still the question remains, which is first and what is real. what you saying also is that somewhere in the near future, someone will come up with some pill to take to stop grive when it happens, that really sucks. You obviously haven't been down to the doctors and picked up any happy pills recently, such as prozac and the new generation of anti-depressents, and only half teasing. However, I do not see how your theory explains the awakining process from a cult. I would have thought that 20 or 30 years involvement would have generated enough chemicals in the body to cause saturation and perhaps physical changes (e.g. notice long time premie, u can smell them a miles away). so how can one wakes up one day (and I mean overnight) and decides that it is time to turn the page. What happened to all the chemicals? Did something happened to the body to break all that down? Please explain? The situation in the brain is more subtle than that, and you are talking of thousands of different drugs. Also the effects of chemicals are not static and linear, and neither are they fixed. A lot of processes in the body, as in a large number of natural processes are working in parallel, but you've still got the consciousness angle. If you take the cybernetic view that consciousness is a non-linear meta system, in a crude way the sum is greater than the parts, and the non-linear butterfly in japan triggering hurricanes in canada effect, you can see that systems, whether biological or not can switch very suddenly. But do you also notice how long it takes to clear the garbage of cult think. I've never heard of a single person who decided to leave and was clear of it all overnight. So you can have sudden and dramatic changes, ie non-linear but they also happen alongside the linear effects. When the body is out of kilter, even long term, other processes come into effect to balance out. Our bodies aren't just static processes, but dynamic self regulating systems. Self regulating, self producing, ie circular systems are fascinating. Take ai for instance, for decades they wanted to be able to explain consciousness as the addition of modules like some gigantic database, yet it failed miserably. Now that they are going back to a more systems/cybernetic approach, ie neural networks, the ai community is moving on again. The whole of biology is very circular, whereas we're used to thinking in a very linear ie additional way, that's why gurus got away with it for so long. Hierarchichal thinking of the old school is finished.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 09:24:55 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: ham Subject: sorry ham--they tried those pills on me... Message:

and they havent found a pill yet that can wipe out my soul angst. it aint the chemicals. that which is me KNOWS something that no amount of psychiatric manipulation can delete. and these raver kids are our children. of course they are going to view the way we did it as old school. they stand on our shoulders-- and we boosted them up there, so they could see farther than we do. if we have any brains, we'll listen to what they call back down from up there.they can see it. we can't.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 10:23:41 (GMT) From: ham Email: ham@hamzen.freeserve.co.uk To: janet Subject: Prozac works for someone I know brilliantly Message:

and they havent found a pill yet that can wipe out my soul angst. it aint the chemicals. that which is me KNOWS something that no amount of psychiatric manipulation can delete. That's the problem with medication, it's still very hit or miss, but the angst must also have a chemical component, that's the thing about our brains, reality experience, and body chemicals, very intense feedback loop where it's impossible to say what causes what, especially when there's so many natural drugs in us. As anyone knows who's mixed drugs, huge variations in effects, etc, and that's just with a couple, not a couple of thousand. If you fancy talking in private give us an e-mail, not always easy discussing this stuff in public. and these raver kids are our children. of course they are going to view the way we did it as old school. they stand on our shoulders-- and we boosted them up there, so they could see farther than we do. if we have any brains, we'll listen to what they call back down from up there.they can see it. we can't. Of course you're right, we were like chemical guinea pigs, first large scale drug usage for ages, we really didn't have a clue. When I think how far I took it on acid, well it's frightening really, lucky still to be here, and not locked up somewhere, which happened to a number of my mates then. And instead of stabilising, what did we do, went and got involved with a guru, scary stuff. Re the youngsters, I've learnt more from 'em than from anyone I thought I'd meet the rest of my life, sometimes feel like I'm the adolescent with them! What has really hit home though was how much I thought were just premie issues, were actually social issues, I missed out on 15 years of social change thinking nothing that was relevant to me was happening 'out there', and then find that instead of being more informed, I was seriously under informed, same goes for the way people were open with each other, just moved on so fast, much faster than I'd learnt as a premie... Sometimes felt almost juvenile when I first left, some people might say not much has changed!

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 14:17:47 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: ham Subject: Prozac does not work for me Message:

as for computer, I used win98 to look up the site. Also I don't use netscape or ie, I have Opera 5. Hardware problems, I do not think so. Life sucks, probably. If you take the cybernetic view that consciousness is a non-linear meta system I can not comment on this statement, as you are assuming that I agree with it. Though I do understand your point, I fail to see how they reached this conclusion, which again, is no more than a statement. I need to know more, where are those links you said you were going to dig out. Ok, accept that non-linearity could occure overnight, thus explaining the sudden change, I also except the linearity that total transformation will take place. As for neural network, this is a very complex issue that has not left the labs yet (last time I looked was last year, where they had neural networks growing on silicon chip, scary shit). There is no doubt that self generating systems are more developed than the ones without a feed back loop, but how does that fit the chemical origin of thought and feeling. Also, it appears that you have forgotten an input, Will. How is will explained in your system. Take a simple example, I decided to stop smoking. Ofcourse you will say, ahh, now what I caused is a non-linerar event to occure in my head, which drove me to blah blah blah blah. But what was the will and where did it come from? Another thing, is the will to live. Why does a whole species live, what drives it forward? (now you're turning me one, so watch out)

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 23:49:51 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Salam Subject: did I really write all this Message:

can not bloody remember. You sure no one esle wrote this stuff?

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Date: Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 22:41:00 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: salam Subject: All 3 sites are real player Message:

Will e-mail re cybernetic biology, been thru it here before, don't want to bore everyone. What you been on, can I have some, a little bit of oblivion is good every so often I reckon.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 04:29:41 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: ham Subject: illusions about the raver scene Ham Message:

Ham, I always loved the sex and drugs and think safe ones (quality control) should be made legal. It's the rock. It kept me from becoming a hippie-trainspotter. Us fags like opera and chanteuses. We worship Maria Callas and Ella Fitzgerald above all other women. It's our blues, baby.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 06:10:48 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Frank Subject: It's obviously different over here then Message:

What I love about the house scene is that at a lot of the do's you'll get trannies hanging out with new-age traveller dreads, old school ravers, gays, rastas, east end working class ex-mobsters, upper class smart set women, you get the drift, and NO real grief for anyone. Also the gay house scene is very open to non-gays. At some of the gayer clubs you might have a door policy of having to tongue the same sex before you get in, keeps out the non-house nazis, but that's quite usual even among straights on the house scene now anyway, admittedly more amongst women, so blah de blah de blah.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:40:59 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: ham Subject: It's obviously different over here then Message:

No it isn't. I relate philosophically very much with the house scene. It's just the music. I can take it or leave it but I need my fix of 'human voice' music regularly - most human voice music except country and rap ad pop and... well, alright only opera, chorales, chanteuses, anything where the human voice is used as a complex musical instrument. House is democratic anarchy. This forum is too but without the gentle hedomism of house. The difference between this forum and house is that the house philosophy (or non-philosophy) has rejected all authority or -isms and -ologies as mind-bending cults but allows that everyone is bent through their own particalar prism and that's fine as long as you know it. I'm with you all the way. I'm teasing you about the music. De gustibus non est disputandum.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 08:28:15 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Frank Subject: the gentle hedomism of house, love it Message:

What a beautiful phrase, says it all, jesus there´s me writing pages, and you say it all in a few lines. Gonna get quite envious of your natural poetry I think. Have you heard any uk garage, loads of vocals, shit I´ve got to get mixing & send you a tape, see what you think. Translation of the latin?

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 09:25:01 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: ham Subject: Good morning, trainspotter Message:

De gustibus etc means: 'About taste let there be no arguing.' Been a poet and writer for 36 years while you were trainspotting. Did you see Carol's post re her son? De gustibus applies there too. If your music is anything like what my boy sends me then I'll enjoy it ONCE - to dance to. I like music that is so emotionally and polyphonically complex that it bears listening to many times. The rave scene here is mostly about dancing. I love dancing but my two partners of many years (for 19 and 8 years) don't eventhough they are so much younger than me. But I'm too fat and work 14 hour days and they prefer sex to dancing. What is an old trainspotter to do?

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:00:24 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Frank Subject: Is there really a t-shirt? Message:

Really, Frank? What's it look like? And yes, it IS nice to clean. I'm going to have a shower myself in a while. Isn't that something? :)

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:07:03 (GMT) From: Coach Email: None To: Jim Subject: T-Shirts Message:

How about 'x-premie.org', t-shirts? Might pay for the web space. Coach

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 05:27:46 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Coach Subject: T-Shirts Message:

Someone suggested the big boobs.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:04:44 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Jim Subject: Is there really a t-shirt? Yes Message:

I got it about a year ago. I got it free because I bought more than $35 of the divine words. You must be my age when bliss is regular bowels movements and nirvana is not having a root canal.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:50:16 (GMT) From: karmapa Email: None To: Everyone Subject: karma Message:

karma is a particular result from a certain action or thought. Every thing you say,think,or do is creating some form of karma. Lets say that when I am driving down a road and someone pulls out in front of me and ruins my car. This example of karma is interdependent,meaning our actions and thoughts although separate from each other contributed to the result both of us would have to experience. The most important thing about karma is not to speculate why you are experiencing this result and comparing it to previous actions or thoughts.The reason for this is that although that particular result may be seen as harmful to you in the NOW of that situation, may later prove to be benificial. Even now I am creating some form of karma, and if I get rude or explicit comments from some of you that would be a direct result of these thoughts and actions. Also another example of interdendent KARMA.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 10:13:21 (GMT) From: DeProGram Anand Ji Email: To Everyone To: karmapa Subject: karma Message:

The only karma M cares about is the Karma Sutra, cancel your old Indain concepts and get with the program! It's about the Sex, Drugs and the Money chumps!

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:33:08 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: karmapa Subject: karma - the logical deduction Message:

Sorry there mate. I can completely destroy the karma theory in just a few sentences. But instead I'll give your mind something to mull over. Suppose a child is born and then suffers terrible abuse as a child from one of its parents. Now your reasoning would be that this was just the child's karma. If that is the case, the parent who is doing the abuse is only carrying out the karmic punishment on their child and therefore the parent is exempt from doing anything wrong. This is the natural and logical deduction you must come to if you believe in karma. Continuing that line of logical reasoning - every cruel and abusive person in this world is simply punishing people because of those people's bad karma. Therefore, if I torture and murder someone, it's their hard luck because they had it coming to them - it was their bad karma. Of course, this then naturally concludes that the people who are carrying out the torture, abuse and murder are not doing anything wrong and therefore will not be earning any bad karma. Or if you think they are doing something wrong, then the cycle would never end because, in simple words, the person who has done bad must be punished, so another person does something bad to them and then that person has to be punished and so on ad infinitum. Finally, let's look at evolution. Do chimpanzees generate bad karma? If they do, what about cats and dogs, ants and elephants? If you scoff, as any right thinking Hindu devotee would, then at which point on the evolutionary scale do the animals start to generate bad karma? Would it start with apes that have learned to use tools? Would it begin with early man who has learned the value of fire? Stone-age man, bronze age man? If you think reasonably about the above, it isn't hard to see that karma as a theory is ill thought out and completely unreasonable. I could go on but it's late. .. Dave

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:41:38 (GMT) From: karmapa Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: karma - the logical deduction Message:

you do not understand the parent is also reaping new karmic acts

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:50:59 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: karmapa Subject: You didn't read my post correctly Message:

Karmapa wrote, 'you do not understand the parent is also reaping new karmic acts' That is the point I made in my post. I'm afraid it's you who have not read the response properly. You have not gone through my post, one sentence at a time and followed my logical reasoning. If you had, you wouldn't have given that reply. Incidentally, I saw on the TV today that a young boy in India has been standing for about seven years now. He is not allowed to sit or lie down, even to sleep. He is in a lot of pain. He believes (as do many) that this will bring him closer to God. He didn't seem very happy though, I must say. I wonder what branch of Hinduism that is.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:00:04 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: karmapa Subject: Wow, that's really interesting! Message:

That's pretty interesting stuff, teach. Where'd you get it? And you say you're how old? Amazing!

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:04:47 (GMT) From: Frank /Thelma Email: None To: Jim Subject: Wow, that's really interesting! Message:

I bet he's got his own web site too.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:05:33 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Frank /Thelma Subject: Wow, that's really interesting! Message:

Must be American. He's got a car.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:21:24 (GMT) From: CultbusterUK Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Oxnard sold out shock!!!!! Message:

This just received from EV:- Elan Vital announcements - http://www.elanvital.org Thank you for your enthusiasm in registering for the Oxnard event, scheduled for January 14, 2001. Due to lack of available seats, we have stopped accepting additional registration requests. All registrations faxed from California, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, Washington, Oregon, Hawaii, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Idaho, Alaska, British Columbia, Canada, and Alberta, Canada, and the country of Mexico, received prior to January 6, 2001 can be considered confirmed. Unless you have received specific confirmation, all registrations faxed from other areas have not been accepted. Those of you who will not be able to attend are welcome to watch the broadcast of the event on Jan 15 at 5 PM PST. Confirmation letters will be sent out on Monday or Tuesday, January 8 or 9th, via fax or e-mail. If you do not receive your confirmation letter, your seat number will be given to you at the event, or you can call 818-707-6374 starting Wednesday, January 10 between 6PM and 9PM PST to receive it. If you live in one of the states mentioned above and wish to be on a waiting list for the event, please call 818-707-6374 starting Wednesday, January 10 betwen 6PM and 9PM PST. If you need any further information you can call 818-707-6374 between the hours of 6PM and 9PM PST. Thanks, The Event Team

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 20:50:49 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: CultbusterUK Subject: Doesn't say sold out though???? Message:

CultbusterUK: Hmmm, I wonder if that announcement contains EV speak. It says no more registrations are being accepted due to lack of available seats. I have it on good information that the Oxnard convention center has been inundated with email about the organization hosting the event. Maybe EV decided to fill most of the seats with security goons. Hopefully Malibu Mole or someone else in deep cover will attend and report on the event for us. Marianne

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 10:46:02 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: CultbusterUK Subject: Oxnard sold out shock!!!!! Message:

How big is this event?

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:24:12 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: CultbusterUK Subject: I'm good. Got my in before deadline. (nt) Message:

adsf

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:46:18 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: made your booby shirt yet?? transfer paper's cheap Message:

they have it at staples.run it thru your printer and iron it onto a plain t shirt. dont forget to print up those EPO cards to stick around the place and on the windshields. better yet, slip em all the way thru the car window cracks so security can't remove em.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:46:10 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Oh bliss, oh joy Message:

Pauline Premie must be wobbling with bliss and anticipation of the edited, sterilized and censored version of the show to be broadcast. You know she was probably too blissed out to get a seat for the show.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 21:43:37 (GMT) From: GERRY Email: None To: ALL Subject: Wild ass leap into the wild blue yonder... Message:

Hmmmm..... OK... No more reservations being accepted for the cult soiree. They didn't sell out but no more reservations accepted... HE'S PLANNING ON CANCELLING !!!

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Date: Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 19:54:10 (GMT) From: Carol Email: None To: GERRY Subject: Maybe a good plan for you: a wild ass leap... nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 23:57:49 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Carol Subject: I'm not sure what you mean, dear... Message:

Hi, I just got back from a funeral service. I didn't know the woman who died very well, but she was my neighbor Ray's mom. I would frequently see her and her husband (who passed away last year) walking on my street and I used to enjoy small talk with them. McCleary is a small town, not very sophisticated and definitely on the poor side. Grace (her name) was quite well know in town and there was a town party held in the park a few years back for their 70th wedding anniversity. What struck me at the service was the natural humility and the simplicity of the people in my little community. Not many suits and ties, in fact I saw only one, but lots of blue jeans and fresh pressed flannel shirts. Grace's son Art, also a preacher, gave a warm and bittersweet eulogy, was dressed in blue jeans and an open collar white shirt. The pastor, a man in his late sixties with a wonderful voice, pulled out a six string guitar and sang a lovely country music style hymn. He had grown up with Grace's sons here in McCleary and knew the family intimately. A number of people stood and spoke of their memories of Grace. There was no postering, no new age revelations of mystical knowledge, no esoteric philosophy, no unsolicited advice. Just a lot of sincere reminiscing and good clean sorrow and expressions of a simple faith in a loving god. Salt of the earth, these people. Not a single navel gazer among them. Refreshing...

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Date: Tues, Jan 09, 2001 at 01:43:43 (GMT) From: Frank Email: thunderstealing@hotmail.com To: gerry Subject: Do you know a WA Supreme Court Justice? Message:

Two weeks ago just before I exited the new non-cult of the non-Lord, two local church-ladies (formerly from Seattle) introduced me a Supreme Court Justice from WA. He and I hit it off immediately because, yes, he is a libertarian. So if ever you need a judge....I'll give you his name and email.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:40:17 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: Everyone Subject: ex premie site is a Lila Message:

I've just worked it out,the ex premie site and this forum is actually a giant lila from the lord himself.We have all been conned again.Maharaji is behind this site and it is a trap for the unfaithful.It was designed to weed out the doubters.Now that he knows who we are(via our email addresses)he is going to cast us out into the abyss to become those rotting vegies we have all heard about.Only joking of course,just goes to show my mind is very healthy(a bit warped perhaps,but healthy)

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 06:58:34 (GMT) From: sam Email: . To: Aussi Ji Subject: making a dressing for the vegies- nt Message:

warm vinaigrette

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:18:59 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Aussi Ji Subject: Yeah, right. And I'm a plant. (nt) Message:

lkjh

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 04:43:23 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: i see youv'e still got that irony bypass syndrome Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:44:31 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: ex premie site is a Lila Message:

Isn't satsang when you talk about the Lard all the time? Now I know why I'm getting so 'clear' and 'synchronized.'

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:14:13 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Frank Subject: charanand said, a long time ago, that even... Message:

..those who are obsessed with the lord in the way of hate and negative scheming are immersed in constant devotion too. they are devoting all that time and effort, completely focused upon him! charanand used to say that such people stand to become the greatest of devotees, because in an instant, by one act, all that hate and negativity and doubt can be changed to belief. just thought I'd remind you. food for thought.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:55:22 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: janet Subject: charanand said, a long time ago, that even... Message:

That's the first thing that crossed my mind when I found this site. I'm sure the Rev Rawat and his church-ladies think so too. 'They just really love me but they don't know it.'

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:28:16 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: janet Subject: He'd better get a move on ....... Message:

.......with the change magic , none of us are getting any younger.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:26:35 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: janet Subject: We've turned the forests into paper and... Message:

the oceans into ink and we are now writing and writing about our Goomaraji - sad, but true. But, oh so much fun! I can only imagine our Lord and his watchers writhing in agony just like I did for years and years trying to incorporate Maharaji's bogus self-serving esteem killing philosophy into my life.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 20:38:47 (GMT) From: karmapa Email: None To: Everyone Subject: everyone Message:

I am a son of a ex-premie, and over the years I have heard many negative and positive messages expressed by my mother and many of you. I don't directly know your experience,but I not only understand the reasons you use this forum, I also understand much about the wide range of possible feelings and situations you all had to experience. With that all said I can get right to the point: No matter if you're angry or not with your current beliefs, you have been conditioned through direct experience. It's probably time to realize that every thing and every one is teaching and conditioning you towards a certain belief system. These beliefs can make or break your overall happiness. So essentially all things you say and do cause a particular reaction for situation in life. I think many of you should be looking directly at your current mind state when you discuss these varying topics, and if it causes you suffering, you should quit sending messages and wasting valuable time that you could be using for something you enjoy.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 21:04:17 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: karmapa Subject: Patronising sod Message:

So who do you think you are talking to, karmata? Whenever you see a crowd of people, say, in a shopping mall, do you do get on your soapbax and tell them where they're going wrong and what they ought to be doing?

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 08:04:17 (GMT) From: C.G. Email: None To: karmapa Subject: everyone Message:

Dear Karmapa, I think there is some truth to what you are saying. If i hadn't been so 'done in' by the guru I might have a lot more interests. I used to have. but sad to say now i only enjoy the forum and when i was a premie i only enjoyed doing things for him - or thought i did. I definately lost my interests in many things. Any comment from a young and fresh 22 year old? Good luck, happy New year and best regards, C.G.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:31:04 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: karmapa Subject: I'm sure you mean well, but.... Message:

(1) Just because I might be angry or sad about any situation does not mean that is all I'm experiencing in my life. (2) Experiencing anger or sadness, or whatever, surely that's part of living, certainly not something I just want to walk away from, especially where justice is concerned. To just walk away is EXACTLY what gm would like, to be left alone to abuse people. Sometimes in life one has to do things that aren't pleasant, but have to be done, that's just a fact of life. (3) There are other people involved, do you have any idea for instance, just how many people have committed suicide around gm, people whose frame of mind was exacerbated by the horrendous knots they had tied their heads in, caused by the ridiculous belief systems they picked up from gm, and the impossibility of dealing with those belief systems. (4) Do you think everyone here just stays here forever, & never takes a break? I'm just about to take one myself. (5) A lot of us here left quite a while ago and have had a lot of time to think things through, which means we aren't just reacting. (6) Just reacting and getting the spleen off your chest at gm can be THE major breakthrough in breaking away from the addictive brainwashing nature of the gurus thinking. When you've spent so long in denial of emotions releasing them can be very constructive. (7) You would be amazed at how many people turn up here, years after leaving having done exactly what you suggested, and realized they had been in complete denial of the damage caused to them, and almost have to start the cleansing process all over again. Now if you are young this might be a bit strong, but I won't patronise you by holding back, do you realize how patronising your post sounds? You might be aware of the situations around premiedom, but how we came to be sucked in in the first place you cannot have a clue about, and the thinking expressed by you in your post was EXACTLY the kind of naivete that got me hooked in the first place, sorry but that's the case. I also suggest that you cannot have a clue what it was like to be in the ashram system, or to have been around in the 70's. I could go on and on, but I'm sure you get the drift. And last but definitely not least, do you think people don't know when they need a break, or are ready to walk away from it all completely? Sorry, but your thinking is extremely naive and insulting, and this isn't just some knee-jerk reaction to your post, I have just read it three times to make sure. What you have done is turn up at a time for me that points out jsut how infuriating that kind of advice is, exactly the kind of simplistic hallmark new age thinking that allowed most of us to get sucked in in the first place.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:36:00 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: karmapa Subject: right you are. remember-jim's a trial lawyer.. Message:

nevermind those caviling dogs below. they don't understand what you're talking about. I do. It's good advice. I had to take a yearlong course in metaphysics to get it. People don't grasp it in one posting. TO THOSE OF YOU WHO REACTED STRONGLY: This voice is not invalidating your emotion. Nor your brain. In fact they are trying to show you a much better thing to do with both.Beliefs ARE transient. They change in light of new information, new experience or new understanding. They are temporary for the time being. Beliefs shape reality, but reality exists beyond your beliefs. And the more emotion you put into a belief, the more real it seems to you. Beliefs are not things in themselves. they are creations of yours, fashioned to serve you for some purpose. It is a good idea to stop and take inventory once in a while and examine what you are believing, to see what it is doing to you. You might come to realize that it is impairing your health, or your relationships, or your ability to make a living, or any of an amazing range of things. Just what you believe, nothing else. And if you can see how it is hrting you to believe that, you can contemplate what it would serve you better to believe. Something more helpful, with less stress or strife or booby traps in it. Don't go jumping all over the kid. Listen. Ask him to say some more.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:47:39 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: janet Subject: That kind of advice is patronizing and offensive Message:

Janet, all of that is trite. Yes I know a lot of new-age people get off on trading these little 'wisdom bites' back and forth. You get to feel wise when you utter this shit and humble when you listen to it. But it really is worthless. Honestly, there isn't a single thing you've said here that doesn't trigger a silent 'DUHHhhhh!' Am I saying this because I'm a lawyer? I thought it was because I wanted to be a fireman. No, actually, I shouldn't make fun. I guess being a lawyer might have a bit of something to do with it. Law school does indeed teach one to cut through empty waffle. Mind you, we should all be doing that anyway, I figure.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 10:29:47 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Jim Subject: law also teaches you to destroy undeserving people Message:

as any prosecuter knows. law isnt interested in the truth. its interested in convicting someone. its interested in blame, in finding and slaughtering a scapegoat, in cutting a deal. it makes cartoons of real living people. the law can villainize anyone-- for a fee. it can make a criminal appear a saint and a saint appear a criminal, and does a handsome business at it, too.that's law, with a small l. the kind of law you studied and practice. then there's The Law. The one you can't break, because it wasn't made by humans, and isn't open to barter, drama, posturing or payments. That Law is the one to study and understand. That is the Law I undertook to be schooled in, and the one from which I answer. That Law operates from Truth, and is interested in nothing but. And That Law always brings that truth forth. Its methods are infallible and inescapable. you're offended? You feel patronized? how do you think witnesses on the stand feel, when they are hostilely cornered, questioned, manipulated into characterizations that don't fit them at all? You get back what you give in life. Remember it, the next time you have someone on the stand, destroying their credibility for the audience and the jury, because you're being paid to. Think about how you're going to explain your actions when it's your turn to appear before the Bench of The Law.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 21:15:38 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: janet Subject: Thanks, Janet, I'm gonna burn my robes now Message:

Janet, That was particularly helpful. I just have one question for you. Seeing as our legal system sucks would you please tell me -- specifically -- what you would do to improve it? Come on, Janet, let's get down to the details. You don't like the way witnesses testify; how would you change that? And please, if you're not going to offer anything more but general criticism such as you've already levied against me and my profession, don't bother. That first volley was excellent but been there, done that. Now give us the details as to how you'd improve the system. Don't forget, the legal system can and does change over time and place. It's not as if you're talking about some religion or something. Nothing's set in stone (well, I guess that pesky U.S. Constitution's pretty close but even that can and has been changed).

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 16:32:32 (GMT) From: Rick Email: None To: janet Subject: unbelievable Message:

I sort of figured something like this was coming from you, Janet, after I read something you posted a few months ago (about your supernatural powers on knowledge). This post however far outdoes anything you've said so far. It is arrogant, mean-spirited, overly simple, transparent and inaccurate. Your statement that YOU study THE law is full of the same superiority and superstition we all had enough of, as premies. It's simplistic and idealistic, and if carried far enough can be self-destructive. You claims about the legal system, although they contain a small amount of truth, are far flung and grandiose. In any society or community there are standards for determining if the rules have been broken. This is true even in a family. And many of precepts that Western law are based on are fairly solid in dealing with practical situations. Although the system is corrupted by other influences (racism, business, politics and ego), it's the only place many people can get any hearing at all. That the ideal of the Western legal system doesn't always measure up isn't Jim's fault, and for you to hang that on him in any way is ludicrous. For all you know, Jim may be one of the really 'good guys' in the system. So not only are you being petty and mean-spirited to attack his profession; you're making assumptions. And to try to connect some form of karma in Jim feeling patronized and offended by someone's post to his actions in a distant courtroom, is not only prejudiced, it's insane.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:48:47 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: janet Subject: jim's a trial lawyer..it's his job to be nasty Message:

What a nice reasonable voice you have, Janet.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 17:11:19 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: Frank Subject: Not around here it's not! Message:

jim's a trial lawyer..it's his job to be nasty (Frank's subject.)

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 21:24:33 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: karmapa Subject: Thank you, Lord, for sending us a teacher Message:

I am a son of a ex-premie, and over the years I have heard many negative and positive messages expressed by my mother and many of you. I don't directly know your experience,but I not only understand the reasons you use this forum, I also understand much about the wide range of possible feelings and situations you all had to experience. That's pretty vague, fella. What exactly do you mean by 'the wide range of possible feelings and situations'? Does that include the 'situation' of being tricked into believing that a regular person like you or me is actually God-on-a-stick? Or the 'feeling' that entertaining doubts about that belief was a sure-fire pathway to hell? Unless you can put some meat on these bones, there isn't much to talk about. With that all said I can get right to the point: No matter if you're angry or not with your current beliefs, you have been conditioned through direct experience. It's probably time to realize that every thing and every one is teaching and conditioning you towards a certain belief system. Again, I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you? What's this about us having been 'conditioned through direct experience'? I don't understand. Indeed, it seems like something too obvious to mention unelss you've got some special meaning in mind. Care to explain? And this last thing, the thing you want us to realize, it troubles me. It kind of sounds as if you're saying that nothing's any more true than anything else as whatever we think is true is nothing more than what we've been 'taught and conditioned' to believe. I hope you're not saying that because that's complete foolishness. Tell me I'm wrong on that one, please. In any event, I hope that you also recognize -- and this is important, teacher -- that your own concepts here, your concepts about concepts, didn't just spring out of thin air either. Where's they come from? How do you know they're true? These beliefs can make or break your overall happiness. So essentially all things you say and do cause a particular reaction for situation in life. I think many of you should be looking directly at your current mind state when you discuss these varying topics, and if it causes you suffering, you should quit sending messages and wasting valuable time that you could be using for something you enjoy. Is that really how you approach life? Just do what you enjoy? Do you ever undertake anything difficult or unpleasant because you think it will lead to some greater good or happiness further down the road? Tell me about it. Finally, I have to ask: do you really think you have that much to teach us? Why? Where'd you get your special knowledge from?

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:21:50 (GMT) From: karmapa Email: None To: Jim Subject: Thank you, Lord, for sending us a teacher Message:

It would be a waste of time to try to explain every contributing situation that lead to this belief. I just wanted to comment on how a much older man can try to say that my comments are vauge and have little meaning,yet fuck or such words have the littlest power to get your point across.Comming from a lawyer you should be able to so much better than a young boy.I also would like to thank you for being much more polite to my comments than others. sarcasm is still less effective but its a start.I would also like to state that direct experience is a tricky subject and cannot be explained without a certain level of ignorant speech. Occationally in life certain unexpected teachers are chosen not out of attration to any particular religion but reminded from all aspects and situations in that beings direct experience. Once again it is not possile to remember or explain in terms you can understand because to state something as fact or to say I am a teacher would obviously prove otherwise. MAY ANYONE READING THIS HAVE HAPPINESS AND ALL CAUSES OF HAPPINESS. [understood or not.]

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 08:15:49 (GMT) From: C.g. Email: None To: karmapa Subject: May they be free from sorrow.... Message:

and the causes of sorrow. May they rest in the great impartiality free from attachment or AVERSION from those near and far. ESPECIALLY GURU MAHARAJI on this forum wouldn't you say oh wise Karmapa - is it really you? Greetings, C.G.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:54:50 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: karmapa Subject: Well, you got at least one thing right Message:

It was right for you to sign off 'understood or not' because, frankly, my friend, you are apparently retreating into opaquity. Could you please do this: try to find some simple, clear words to express what it is you want to say. If the words don't come that easily, maybe you should ask yourself why. It might be that the problem is that the idea itself isn't clear. In that case, please do us and yourself a favour and don't just throw a bunch of words up like a smokescreen. That won't cut it here. It shouldn't cut it anywhere although, as you seem to already know (unfortunately) it will more than suffice in new age circles where obscurity is a favorite flavour.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:22:08 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Jim Subject: And not just obscurity either Message:

Why are new-age concepts always said as universals, as though they are carved in stone, and sent from heaven, yet as soon as the details are discussed it becomes like premie hide & seek time, or 'you just wouldn't understand'? Shit, just when I thought we'd got a sort of consensus here, to reduce the aggression in exchange for no new age stuff, which after all was THE reason we all got sucked into cult thinking in the first place, whatever the emotional reasons behind that, and it's breaking out like some spiritual plague again. I don't know how much more of this shit I can put up with, it's hard enough being here still thinking about gm as it is, maybe I need a LONG break.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:00:46 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Jim Subject: one thing right Message:

That was clear, precise and kind in that you took the time to answer waffle. But a bit boarding-school masterish. Hey, the kid could be an American and is not used to having adults talk to them with authority. It's the kids who have authority there.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:27:17 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Frank Subject: If only Frank Message:

But I'll lay good money on it that we're talking about EXACTLY the kind of sloppy thinking and new-age cliches which gave us the air bubbles to get sucked into lila thinking in the first place. Spot it a mile off. That stuff gives me the shits, and it was exactly the lack of that, re your comments about church marms etc that I loved about your posts when you arrived, and not a hint of a patronising tone either.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 03:55:39 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: ham Subject: If only, Ham Message:

These are the kids of the New Age. They are being taught by old hippie trainspotters in Birkenstocks and see government as nanny and Mad-ass Insane - who's that?

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 05:57:19 (GMT) From: ham it up Email: None To: Frank Subject: Careful big boy Message:

Now what did I do with my birken socks, what the hell are birkenstocks by the way? And where do you think I went wrong, I mean we're talking SERIOUS, as in serious, anti-materialist eco vegan pc non-drug taking new ager, my path should have been mapped out years ago, and yet here I am hanging out with psychedelic bacon eating materialists who are distinctly non-pc, I dunno, something must have gone wrong somewhere. Maybe it's because I never had enough faith, d'ya think?

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:54:00 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: ham it up Subject: You old ham you Message:

In 1984 I took and 15 year break from the cult (not the kriya - still like that) and educated myself. I had never been in an ashram and have always smoked dope (etc) and regard myself as an ex-unpremie or stoner-premie of which there are many. Being a fag has made me very biased in the favor of self-didacticism not wanting to be indoctrinated by any other cult including the cult of new-agism (birkenstocks are those weird sandals that are ergomnomic but you have to be a masichist to wear them because they deform you feet but are gren and save the whales)or the cult of consumerist society. I went back about a year ago to see if the newly sanitized Chrurch of the Very Rev Rawat was doing justice to the kriyas and found that he is selling it as a panacea to the new-agers and consumerists to make money. That's why I'm here. But I have come to see that western culture, thought, civilization also is a mine full of jewels. The ore stinks but you put that on the slag heap.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:56:29 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Frank Subject: PS You old ham you Message:

The kid is Carol's son. I smell Birkenstocks. He needs some e and a rave.

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Date: Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 09:31:33 (GMT) From: carol Email: None To: Frank Subject: Sorry do not agree! Message:

He has already tried enough drugs and way too young (from 12 or 13!) Although both us us agree that a certain herb should be legal and may be a better prescription for certain ailments than chemicals!

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Date: Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 18:07:55 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: carol Subject: Herbs and opera Message:

Carol this answer to Ham was part of the smart-alecky crap that I apologised to you for. Totally irreponsible and superficial. My son started all the drugs when he was 14. When he was 18 he came to live with me and I made a rule - no street drugs. But we always smoked a peace pipe of herbs (which should be legal)together every night. He mellowed out and even enjoyed listening to opera with me. This last bit is a dig at Ham who thinks my taste in music stinks.

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Date: Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 19:50:21 (GMT) From: Carol Email: None To: Frank Subject: I like Puccini (sp?) Message:

My mom remarried a nerdy quiet bachelor when I was 10 who took us all to operas and ballet! I married a similar guy on my third round of marriages!

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Date: Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 20:25:40 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Carol Subject: I like Puccini too OT Message:

Some herbs and Turandot go well together

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:06:54 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Frank Subject: What exactly are you trying to protect, Frank? Message:

Are you worried that this kid might give up some of his burgeoning sense of 'spiritual wisdom'? That he might end up thinking that he doesn't know so much after all? What's your concern?

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:09:00 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Jim Subject: What exactly are you trying to protect, Frank? Message:

Nothing anymore, Jim. He had two chances. See my answer to you in thread above.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:09:24 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Jim Subject: Stonor, they're stoning the newcomers again. Message:

Yes, he irritated me too but I also have a son raised by an ex-premie mother who is struggling to make sense of it and is confused. Be nicer to newcomers. Save the stoning for the Malibu Mob and their capo.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:27:52 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: Frank Subject: I'll second and third that! Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:36:21 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: I'll second and third that! Message:

Only expremies know how to second and third things too. That's because we were three people for so long: imperfect me, my poor long-suffering and neglected mind and the 'perfection within.' No wonder I'm so incompatible with myself.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:27:27 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Frank Subject: You call that 'stoning'? Message:

I just call it talking sense to somebody who wasn't making much. Where's the harm in that?

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:31:53 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Jerry Subject: You call that 'stoning'? Message:

Not really 'stoning' but not welcoming either - kind of cold and uncompromising. An unwillingness to hear someone out before they can fully express themselves.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:00:29 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Frank Subject: And besides.... Message:

I saw nothing 'cold or uncomprimising' in Jim's post. It just looked to me like somebody getting called on his bullshit. It should be interesting to see what karmapa has to say in reply, if anything.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:48:52 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Frank Subject: You call that 'stoning'? Message:

Well, the guy kinda barnstormed in here giving us a lecture on how we're doing it all wrong. I don't usually extend welcomes to people like that. In fact, I'd rather tell them to go fuck themselves. I ain't nobody's doormat, Frank. And neither are you. When karmapa learns how to announce himself in a more becoming way, than maybe he'll have earned himself a warm welcome. As it stands now, karmapa is just an irritant, as you yourself felt about him. Fuck him. Welcome him? I'd rather show him the door.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:03:45 (GMT) From: karmapa Email: None To: Jerry Subject: You call that 'stoning'? Message:

Even though you would like to show me the door I will now state the fact that jugements destroy people. If I had more time to learn how to say everything correctly,You would see that im not looking for a welcome and only logged on to try to say something positive.I just know most of you followed a teacher who said bow and revere me, and 20 years later your still trying to come to terms with your mistake and accept it as just that. I am also only wasting today on such pointless poor ME TOPICS

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:35:35 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: karmapa Subject: That's not why I'm here at all Message:

It's the kind of sloppy new-age cliched hippy bollox that I was into, and that's why I'm here, to challenge that kind of thinking, and to do community support for the emotional damage, that and an awareness that true democracy is the only answer. Also re GM to help other poor sods getting the wool pulled over their eyes, believe me I've got much better things I'd rather be doing, but it's not just about 'me, me, me'. That kind of 'it's only the experience that counts' is at the core of the conning that gm gets away with. You're way off the mark sunshine.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:12:49 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: karmapa Subject: Look at you! Message:

What do you really know about any of this? What was the 'mistake' we made? Falling for a hindu guru or falling for this particular hindu guru? And what would you suggest we do with respect to this? Not discuss it? Discuss it differently? What? By the way, what does your last sentence mean? What are the 'pointless poor ME TOPICS'? My advice to you, kid, is to stay in school. You'll see.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:45:51 (GMT) From: karmapa Email: None To: who cares now Subject: judging jimmy Message:

all i know is you all are sheep an even a lama or guru should not be treated as god nor should you have to treat any one with such respect and admoration because its all this honoring praising creates idles of ordinary men who might know a little of the supposed truth. You are all sheeps and dont know the truth of silence and as long as you look to external sourses instead of seeing through your own eyes. I will never make a mistake such as stated earlier because i am buddha,jesus,krishna,and so on because they see for them selves how their mind function and reacts to direct experience now matter what and for your information school has not made you any smarter why would i follow your advise. when maytria or the new ager comes to light you will not see him.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 05:35:34 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: karmapa Subject: You should be writing to Elan Vital, not us Message:

In a way you have a point, about not being sheep and not following gurus etc etc, but you are completely missing the point of what this Forum is all about. Sure, we fell for the whole story, 20 odd years ago, got sucked in by this little Indian boy, swallowed the guru hype hook line and sinker. But karampapa or whatever the fuck you call yourself, we're the ones who have recognised that fact, maybe a little late, but hey, we didnt have you for guidance then, right? We are OUT OF THE CULT, see? We have fled the flock, given the guru the push, now we're trying to sort out the hows, whys and what nexts. The ones who would REALLY benefit from your pearls of wisdom are the poor sods who are still IN IT! Take a peek over at some of the stuff people write in Enjoying Life, Expressions pages. Unfortunately, the cult doesnt permit open feedback and interaction amongst the flock, as we do here, so you will just have to email them and hope for the best. By the way, I have to tell you I chuckled when I read this line from you: for your information school has not made you any smarter . Coming from someone who is apparantly incapable of simple punctuation and lacks rudimentary spelling skills, this is something of a self-portrait, no?

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:40:16 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: karmapa Subject: No gurus you say, yet who's maitrya or new-ager Message:

Careful sunshine, you can't have it both ways.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:56:56 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: hamzen Subject: ham (OT) Message:

Feel like taking a short break and checking your e-mails?

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 03:10:12 (GMT) From: ham Email: None To: Stonor Subject: Will do, this guys not worth the effort Message:

Pretty sad really, actually just remembered I was reading my e-mails, and reached a link to a post here from, who was it now, ahh yeah..., it's all your fault! I would have missed all that shit, god that kind of sloppy new-age thinking, EXACTLY the shit we were all into, aaaahhhhhhhh, yuch

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:37:31 (GMT) From: mike Email: None To: Jim Subject: judging jimmy Message:

all i know is you all are sheep an even a lama or guru should not be treated as god nor should you have to treat any one with such respect and admoration because its all this honoring praising creates idles of ordinary men who might know a little of the supposed truth. You are all sheeps and dont know the truth of silence and as long as you look to external sourses instead of seeing through your own eyes. I will never make a mistake such as stated earlier because i am buddha,jesus,krishna,and so on because they see for them selves how their mind function and reacts to direct experience now matter what and for your information school has not made you any smarter why would i follow your advise. when maytria or the new ager comes to light you will not see him.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:05:13 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: mike Subject: The reason to follow my advice is this Message:

For one thing, you're not able to express yourself well in words. School would help you with that. It would also help you to learn to think critically and not just fall willy-nilly into a bunch of bullshit concepts like a drunk fly in soup. I'm not sure who the 'new ager' is -- a comic hero? -- but I can tell you matraya ain't coming and yes, you're probably going to have to find some line of work one of these days. Too bad, isn't it?

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:07:05 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: karmapa Subject: You call that 'stoning'? Message:

Now, you made some sense. Heat seems to generate honesty sometimes.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:53:51 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Jerry Subject: You call that 'stoning'? No- but cold as stone Message:

Well, i figured that if he was the SON of an ex then he was just a kid in his twenties at the most. Kids can be put on false bravado. So can newcomers of all ages. First you see if it's false bravado by being nice. If it's really arrogance, sure, then stone them. All I'm saying is give someone a second chance but not necessarily a third.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:02:05 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Frank Subject: Fuck false bravado Message:

Frank, You're too nice. Okay?

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:13:08 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Hey, Jer, would you email me? Message:

Jer, Would you please email me -- with your phone number, if you like? Thanks, Jim jamesheller@home.com

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 21:03:00 (GMT) From: Frank Email: f_lamotte@hotmail.com To: karmapa Subject: karma and truth Message:

A lot of harm is still being done by the Rev Rawat. He is teaching kriyas that many more responsible gurus usually teach to people only after extensive healing on the mind has been done. He tells people to ignore their troubled minds instead of healing them because he makes money by having power over confused and weak people. Some are more self-confident than others and do their own healing and house-cleaning. Others still need to learn the importance of a healthy mind. There is a lot of mental healing taking place here. But your point is well taken. There is still quite a lot of energy wasted on unproductive anger here too but there is also a lot of creative anger and satire. When apartheid was dismantled in South Africa Bishop Tutu suggested and chaired the Truth and Reconciliation Committee as an alternative to an endless cycle of revenge and counter-revenge. On the whole it has worked and spared the country from a blood bath. I have often thought such a solution would be better than attempting revenge on the Rev Rawat. Truth, confession and forgiveness instead of righteous anger, revenge and spite. But the Rev has yet to indicate that he is willing to tell the truth. Joke follows. Warning for the irony-impaired: I have asked Bishop Tutu to chair a Truth and Reconciliation Committee to mediate between the Rev and the exes but he declined and suggested Winnie Mandela. Mrs Winnie has mellowed with age but is still unpredictable and may side with the Rev and put tires around all of our necks and set fire to them with gasoline.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 21:43:26 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Frank Subject: 'Truth and Reconciliation'-EV-why not for M?.... Message:

I just saw a very powerful film,unreleased as of now, that may take the best documentary award at the Academy Awards... It was about the 'Truth and Reconciliation' campaign in South Afric.It was extremely well done,and really explained the basic philosophy behind the campaign. I totally agree, it could provide the framework for a dialogue between exes and m, and I have often suggested this. I think Michael Dettmers, and possibly some other PAMS could play pivotal roles in this. The big question is, how do you do it when one party doesn't want to participate? How do you bring them to the table, so to speak? I think you have to show them that it is really in their best interest to take part in this, and the other road (not dealing with their stuff)will, inevitably lead to far worse consequences... Idealistic thinking, I agree, but I also believe that with the advent of the internet, m is starting to wake up to the fact that there are thousands of justifiably angry people out there, and if he doesn't deal with his stuff that he created, things will get very hot for him, and not just in amaroo in the summer... So for you on the EV 'watch team', why don't you think about this and suggest it to your master? And for exes, do you have anything to add to this dialog? We have historical examples, such as Tutu, Mandela, MLK, Gandhi etc., to study and learn from..... Comments?

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:51:24 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Your historical examples of reconcilation Message:

do not , unfortunately , in my view , fit the bill in Rawat's case. There are no 2 or more sides here who have hurt one another ,& can maybe come to some sort of compromise. What have we ever done to him that could be traded in a negotiation against what he has done to us ? For Rawat to even hint to his closest associates that he might be willing to go down that road , would involve such a massive loss of face , that I'm sure he would never do it even though the shit were about to hit the fan. We're talking GOD here . How can he admit to himself that he isn't , let alone anyone else. Sorry I haven't got a constructive idea . Your heart's in the right place.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:57:54 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Bin Liner Subject: Your historical examples of reconcilation Message:

Reconciliation as you say can only happen when both sides admit wrong. I'm willing to admit that I am wrong in hurling ad hominems at the Lard - but it's so much fun. If he feels that what I have said is unfair then let him say so here. Here is what I have to say to him:On my second tipsy tour through this forum I found the Dalai Lama's chain letter. Of course I emailed it to 18 people before I read the rest of the thread. You did too? And you? Were you tipsy too or don't you need an excuse? That was before I realized that most ex-premies do the fifth technique a lot. Now, the fifth technique is only revealed to the Very Rev's in-crowd, the guys who 'donate' money to the Rev from special accounts, better known as the Malibu Mob, you know the guys who get on the yacht. But it is often revealed by closely watching the Very Rev Rawat. The fifth technique is accomplished by placing the tongue in one's cheek and giving a sly half-smile. He does it a lot and is a great rishi. This is what Lama Thelma the Thunderstealing Bitch has to say for the coming Far East Asian New Year, the year of the Snake. (With apologies for using that sweet dear Dalai Lama's chain letter.) (NB: If you've got an old tattered copy of Chinese astrolgy - left over from the days when you were clutching at straws because the Very Rev Ratguru Rawat was leaving you in the dark - read what it says the Year of the Snake means for a Rooster (the year in which the Very Rev was born.) Our worries are over and the worries of many others will soon be over but, according to Chinese sages, the Rev's worries are only about to begin. I hope they are wrong. I don't like to see anyone suffer. That doesn't mean I don't like to watch but I promise not to gloat and to try to feel detached and blissed out the way the sainted Pauline Premie has taught us to.) Instructions for Life in the Year of the Snake for a Ratguru born in the year of the Rooster (see above - and apologies to any nice Roosters): 1. Take into account that great love and great achievements involve great risk. No, sorry, 'great love' does not include juvenile self-infatuation. 2. When you lose, don't lose the lesson. If you learn your lesson and come clean and take responsibility maybe we'll let you back into the human race again one day. 3. Follow the three Rs: Respect for self, respect for others responsibility for all your actions. See above 1) re self-respect v self-infatuation and 2) responsibility. 4. Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck. The day you don't get what you want will be the best day you have had since you became the Ratguru and have been given everything that you ever wanted with a mere snap of your holy fingers at poor blissed-out bhakti-infatuated Pauline Premie. 5. Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly. I can't add much to that one because you never even bothered to learn the basic rules of civilization,honesty, decency and modesty (yes, the opposite of hubris - oh, you need to look that word up, sorry.) 6. Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship. No, I'm forgiving so come and have a drink with me after the court case and we'll see if anything develops. But I must warn you I'm a fat, old, grey, balding fag with a colostomy bag. Oh? You only like young blonde females. Oops, silly me. 7. When you realize you've made a mistake, take immediate steps to correct it. We're waiting. 8. Spend some time alone every day. That means with no 'voices' that once told you that you were THE ONE or your dear departed daddy's ghostly gibberish. 9. Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values. The last word needs to be changed to 'valuables' for you since you have more of them. But, if I were you, I would hold onto the family jewels because they will be your most valuable asset one day - perhaps your only asset. 10. Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer. Except when you are speaking before a democratically constituted jury of your peers. It'll be bigger than OJ's trial because your peers are rich and famous. 11. Live a good, honorable life. Then when you get older and think back, you'll be able to enjoy it a second time. 'THINK' - now what does that word mean? 12. A loving atmosphere in your home is the foundation for your life. I wish this for all human beings. I hope your family sticks by you. No one else will. 13. In disagreements with loved ones, deal only with the current situation. Don't bring up the past. Exactly. Those of us who know what's happening now do not need to bring up your past. You are lying and scamming people by billing yourself as 'THE Master' with special powers which must remain un-nameable and secret. These powers are conveyed by your speechless devotees to astonished strangers by means of a 'propagation package consisting of video and audio tapes of YOU. Yes, you've silenced the servants finally haven't you? So, your devoted and sadly sincere church-ladies must convey their 'Master's' secret powers by doing the fifth technique (see above) and the old nudge, nudge, wink, wink, clutch your heart and roll your eyes in bliss routine. And you are skimming donations from a 'non-profit education corporation' via an elaborate shell game. These donations are being solicited from well-meaning people for purposes of 'education' but are being used insincerely and deceitfully. No we don't have to and won't bring up the past. 14. Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality. Immortality does not mean oblivion or amnesia. Knowledge means wisdom and learning not the fifth technique. 15. Be gentle with the earth in your last house-plant. It might be all you have left. 16. Once a year, go someplace you've never been before, like the local pub and see how long you last. 17. Remember that the best relationship is one in which your love for each other exceeds your need for each other. I hope the Malibu Mob loves you more than they need you and vice versa. 18. Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it. Couldn't have said it better. If you give it all up, confess your ignorance and stupidity and give the loot back I promise you peace of mind. 19. Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon. Did you write that one? Cute but not up to your usual style. Wouldn't you have written, 'with longing that is so deep it will never be filled.' And it never was. Kept your word there. Do not keep this message. Use your delete button immediately. This mumbo-jumbo must leave your hands within 96 hours. You will get a very pleasant surprise (even if you are not superstitious - but I think you are - just two words 'dead daddy) if you forward this mantra to other people. 0-4 people: Your life will improve slightly. 5-9 people: Your life will improve to your liking. 9-14 people: You will have at least 5 surprises in the next 3 weeks. 15 people and above: Your life will improve drastically and everything you ever dreamed of will begin to take shape - peace of mind, a clear conscience, being liked by the chaps down at the pub. BTW these guys don't play bhakti yoga. Don't even say the word because they'll think you said 'Bugger me' and they're not as clean and cute as you are. Just say cheese - oops, sorry, maybe not. Thelma has to go back to work (as the local cheap ho with a heart of gold who knows how to party like there's no tomorrow) next week after a week's couch-potatoing and won't have time to play on the net so this will be the last of her drunken sprees on the forum. Thank the muses.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:13:31 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Frank Subject: Hey Sandy! Check out Frank's post above! Message:

And I like to think I'm a different kind of Rooster than m!

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:02:37 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Stonor Subject: Hey Sandy! Check out Frank's post above! Message:

I've known many nice roosters. Pigs like roosters. Especially of they are tasty.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:58:11 (GMT) From: karmapa Email: None To: Frank Subject: Hey Sandy! Check out Frank's post above! Message:

learn to spell

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:05:53 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: karmapa Subject: Hey Sandy! Check out Frank's post above! Message:

Oh, you're really talking about Frank's typo. Ha ha ha, you're really one to talk. You can't even capitalize on a regular basis. It's ok, you'll realize later that you have a whole lot of anger about the poor schooling you've received, but then, with 'KNOWLEDGE' you don't need any, do you?

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:00:51 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: karmapa Subject: I know how to spell one of my family's names, kid Message:

Stonor House England Learn some respect.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 16:34:46 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Stonor Subject: Is this related to your family Message:

Or are you only showing that the word Stoner does exist?

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 18:03:20 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Salam Subject: Yes, Salam ... Message:

I wrote a post to Monmot a while ago with the details, but it goes back to about 1850, when my father's grandmother married a Stonor. I don't use the name, but could if I wanted to. With all the 'stoner' jokes I get here, maybe it's just as well. ;-)

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 18:07:05 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Salam Subject: or maybe great-grandmother ... (who cares) ...(nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:14:56 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Frank Subject: Wow , you have a typing speed to die for. ( nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:01:02 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Bin Liner Subject: okay, so I cheated Message:

it's a a repost

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:05:00 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: la-ex Subject: 'Truth and Reconciliation'-why not for M?.... Message:

It would be nice to follow in those peaceful footsteps. The Very Rev may be frightened by the exes. We could offer him an olive branch. So, Mr Rawat, you are welcome here to discuss things democratically and TRUTHFULLY without your secret fifth technique, you know, the tongue in cheek technique that you have perfected.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 20:04:40 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Kumbh Mela (ot) Message:

I've just been watching a documentary on tv about Kumbh Mela, the top Hindu festival, which takes place every 12 years on the banks of the Ganges. It starts Monday, and this one is special because it's the Maha Kumbh which only happens every 144 years. They were interviewing the organiser who says he's expecting 70 million people over the 40 days, and on the peak day, 20 million. Makes our Guru's get togethers look a bit pathetic. John

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:51:40 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: JHB Subject: Kumbh Mela-satpal's bound to have a full house/nt Message:

zxcvbnm,./

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:02:31 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: JHB Subject: no fishing downstream Ganges region for now..nt Message:

yukkkkkk

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:28:03 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Who said this? (It was'nt me so douse the flames) Message:

For as long as man has been sufficiently conscious to leave written notes there are those which show an early intrigue by a few in activities of consciousness that were outside collective concerns. This interest has been labeled variously as: magic, the occult, the mystical, the spiritual, the-struggle-to-Awaken, the-search-for-Enlightenment, or simply, The Knowledge. The minds of some men have always sought to function in a manner not inherent; it still goes on today, but few of them ever pursue the matter deeply enough to get to the bottom of it; they are satisfied to be students of: magic, the occult, awakening, and enlightenment, rather than understanding the reality behind such words. There is nothing “wrong” with this any more than there is anything wrong with preferring to listen to music as opposed to making music, but there is an obvious distinction between being a listener and being an artist, and no purpose would be served in trying to deny it, and likewise if you really want to discover-- then create -- your own non standard running of consciousness you need to face the facts about your interest in this affair, and not pretend to fool yourself, (like is natural for routine consciousness), into believing you want to be an active participant when all you actually want is to be a passive observer, and sometimes kibitzer.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 21:36:50 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Oliver Subject: Who said this? (It was'nt me so douse the flames) Message:

they are satisfied to be students of: magic, the occult, awakening, and enlightenment, rather than understanding the reality behind such words. Oh? And is there a reality behind such words? Ha, ha, ha!

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 22:00:03 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Actually... Message:

I suppose there is a reality to 'awakening'. Every once in a while it occurs me, quite plainly, that THIS IS IT. That ever happen to you, an understanding of what consciousness, and life, really is? Ever been there?

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 20:43:49 (GMT) From: Carol Email: None To: Oliver Subject: Don't know either,but likewise agree it is good nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 18:46:47 (GMT) From: Fact Email: None To: Oliver Subject: Don't know: Is good. NT Message:

NT

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 12:02:58 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: Fact Subject: Look. Message:

http://www.jancox.com/

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 16:44:29 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Turner Subject: Turner: Our dialog is continued here Message:

Turner, I have copied your post and inserted my replies as the Spirit moved me. When you are done with this one, would you please go back to the post entitled 'speak the truth and fear no man' and reply to it specifically? Thanks. My replies are carroted for easy reading. Do you think the best good you can do on earth is administer justice; be fair; do the right thing? >I think it is one of the best goods a man can do. Look around you, what does justice have to do with life? If justice is so important to God, why does life allow, and seemingly engineer so much injustice? >Justice has been and continues to be a pursuit of human beings since the beginning of history and is regarded by all holy writings and teachers as worthy of striving for. I don't see it all, but I think alot of the bad stuff people bring upon themselves. Alot of the rest is innocent people getting hit with crossfire and fallout from bad shit going on around them and they are in range. Life is important to God, but he allows death. I don't see God as 'engineering' injustice. I let my kids screw up sometimes just so they can learn their own lessons. I think God does that too on a grander scale. Are you implying that you don't think Maharaji cares about civilization as we know it and the world could become like 'Road Warrior' and it would be OK just so everybody had Knowledge? Justice and mercy are two sides of the same coin that appears in the Kabbala and many other mystic and ancient teachings that separates humans from other critters. Just because justice isn't always served doesn't mean that justice is not important...it just means that people are not very conscious or compassionate yet. We get locked in the loop of crime and punishment, and right and wrong, and agreed, it does make you feel warm and cozy when your concept of justice is upheld and the punishment matches the perceived crime. That’s very Hollywood of course, you know…the good guy wins and the bad guy gets what he deserves. What about when it doesn’t happen that way? Well, many have screamed at God when that happens, and many have lost their faith? But who can argue with God? Well, unfortunately we all can if we so choose. >Isn't Maharaji the good guy in your movie? Isn't he supposed to win? Isn't that your mindset right now? Isn't that justice in your eyes? So are you saying that Maharaji is God and you and I are not? I am familiar with the book of Job. I understand that when shit happens one should not lose faith. But this is not the book of Job, thank God. Maharaji, being a human being like you and me, is subject to all the laws and rules that you and I are. He even said so. I am not seeking punishment, blood revenge or anything else like that. I just don't think any form of caste system should exist anymore, even the invisible unspoken hidden one that allows some premies to be more equal than others, and Maharaji to do whatever and not be honestly and respectfully questioned in any way. I am seeking open truth and equal rights and fairness to be dealt to all people, for both premies and those who have come to call themselves ex-premies because of inequities in the system that were created by DLM and EV, aberrant mahatmas, and right under Maharaji's nose. If he is all-everything, he will look kindly on my human frailties and love me for wanting to do the right thing, even if I am antlike in my consciousness compared to his and so forth... Sandy, you think you understand what really matters. >I never claimed to be omniscient, but I do have a conscience that guides me to know what matters. And I do have Knowledge and know how precious the experience is to go inside, however one can arrive there. Let’s face it, something needs to matter or you have little cause to get out of bed in the morning, right? But does what matter to you really matter? Well of course it does…to you…whether it does or not. >And if a premie kid gets molested in the middle of an empty house by a mahatma, will anyone hear and answer the cries of their heart? (As in 'if a tree falls in the woods with no one around will it make a sound?') >You are talking to someone with Knowledge. Keep your consdescending shit for an aspirant, OK? I know what you know and am aware of what you are aware of. I say we can be realized AND be just and merciful...On Earth as it is in Heaven, beautiful and whole. That is the promise I believe was made by another Master whose teachings I subscribe to. Do you have a problem with that? If you were dying by the side of the road and a thief stopped to give you water, would you turn away because you knew he was a thief? What would really matter…to uphold your sense of justice or survive to take another breath? >I would be doing that thief and myself a favor to accept his kindness, for it would be an opportunity for him to do something good that would offset the evil he had done, and it would also save me. Bad example, Turner. When someone gives you the fulfillment that satisfies you completely and connects you with something that allows your heart to “breathe”, do you turn away because he appears to not have the same sense of justice as you? >Maybe. If the thief gave you water and then he (and his crew) tried to seduce your wife, molest your children and steal your money, would you let him just because he gave you a drink and even saved your life? One thing has nothing to do with the other. Up until recently, I was convinced that the experience I enjoyed from Knowledge was available only from association with Maharaji and continued contact with him in whatever format he commanded in the moment. That is what I am really in question of now as a result of how other premies have been treated in various situations. How much justice really matters to an empty heart is about the same as how much it matters to a dying man. >What? In a way, we are dying right now. But we are also living right now. And justice matters to whoever it matters to. Having a love of justice gives deeper meaning to my life, even with Knowledge. And puleeze do not even try to characterize me as some goody-goody looking for som excuse to criticize the organization or the Master. I did not look for this, it crossed my path. I chose to look at the situation and not ignore it, ike the Samaritan who stopped along the roadside to help a traveler who had been mugged, after so-called holy men had passed the poor soul by. I have no marytr complexes or anything like that. Let's just say that I have acted out of the same place that M was in when he used a large vehicle and a chain, a tractor or something, to pull a neighbor driver out of a ditch once, or so the story went. I don't see the big mystery...I have only done what I felt has been the right, kind and decent thing to do and that is to speak up. Are you still in touch with the silent call from your heart to be fulfilled Sandy? >Should I put my hands on my monitor now and repeat after you? If you are asking me that question, maybe you need to check yourself. I personally could care less if a talking rock gave me Knowledge…if it brought me to the same experience of wholeness and fulfillment. That would be a very special rock indeed >Yeah, and it would also be idolatry. Remember Mel Brook as Yogurt when he spoke to the Prince who lost the magic ring: 'The Shwartz is IN you!'

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 18:16:19 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: shp Subject: Turner: Still awaiting your reply and more... Message:

Turner, I understand you probably have a life as I do and it's the weekend, but I do sincerely look forward to your continued dialog, at least at this juncture. I had just finished a PS to you the other day at the same time the FA was archiving our thread to inactive files, so somehow my post got lost. I can't remember all of it, and have requested the FA to see if he or she can retrieve it. In the meantime, I want to post to you what I recall from my lost message: When you tune into the EV site, words fade in and out of the screen in the intro. The one word that keeps coming back larger and larger and remains throughout the intro is the word 'PEOPLE'. Far as I know, the entities that post here fit that description, they are PEOPLE, who somehow got caught in the cogs of DLM/EV and/or Maharaji's instructors and have no recourse or right of redress of their problems or grievances. True, some grievances I find ludicrous...I dont't care if he has six sportscars, for example. But there are other way more serious matters that I will not bore everyone here by repeating...we all know pretty much what we are talking about here. The other thing I remember writing and losing is this: When you go into a restaurant or gas station and you first get served and your order is taken, the service is quick and polite. Then once you are hooked into the process, it seems like the service drops off and your server is running around seating new customers or starting new gas pumps for newcomers, and you have to wait alot longer for that feeling of prompt service, you know? Well, with all due respect to the management, I don't think that's how it ought to be with Knowledge, that all the politeness and good attention and service is directed to the front end, the apsirants only, while premies who have signed on for the duration are either delayed, put off alot or just plumb ignored. This is bad for any business, from my experience. Once a client base is established, true you must still conduct outreach, but also maintain rapport and keep following up with existing clients, that is, if you really want to retain your base and expand. For aspirants to have the right to directly ask Maharaji questions at intro programs, and then for old timer premies to not even have a voice or get even a mailed reply from even an assistant feels very strange indeed. As for what I think really matters and what you think really matters: YOU matter, Turner. I am taking time from my life to write to you just as you have take time to write to me. Is your time or life more precious to the Creator than mine? I believe that the communication of accurate information is very important Out Here just as the experience of Knowledge is important In There. On earth as it is in Heaven, Turner, that is the goal. Sat Yuga is not everyone with Knowledge running around living like animals or barbarians. What is going on in this 3D experience will eventually correspond with the inner experience more and more, of beauty, truth and love made manifest, yes? If not us, then who will manifest that? Are you waiting for Maharaji to send out a memo that says now we should all be kind to each other and mend our fences? Do you need a prompt from him to do that? I think that's where the inner experience is the teacher and you don't need 'that little guy on the stage' to tell you to wipe your ass, you know? I understand the concept of the Master not needing to conform with shit in this world, that he is above it all. I don't happen to agree with it when it comes down to people getting hurt who don't seem to be deserving of it. If they are paying off some karma from a past lifetime, then say so. There is altogether too much left unsaid in this dysfunctional premie/ex-premie family, and I know from experience with a small nuclear family that if people don't communicate about what's bothering them and get some closure from the other parties involved, shit stacks up and causes much bigger problems down the road. There is more, but I can't recall it all just now. But YOU matter Turner, and so do I and so do all the PEOPLE (see EV intro with emphasis on PEOPLE). Either everything and everyone matters or nothing and nobody matters. I am in the mode of everything and everybody mattering. See ya soon I hope, here on the thread, Sandy

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:33:04 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: shp Subject: A Formal Request Made of Sanford Pass Message:

Shp, Would you mind converting to the conventional posting routine of 'carroting' the quoted text and not the reply? Why do it exactly the opposite of everyone else? You wouldn't want to unnecessarily confuse anyone, would you?

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 15:36:00 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Jim Subject: A Formal Reply to James Heller Message:

>'Would you mind converting to the conventional posting routine of 'carroting' the quoted text and not the reply? Why do it exactly the opposite of everyone else? You wouldn't want to unnecessarily confuse anyone, would you?' No, I would not want to unnecessarily confuse anyone, or necessarily confuse anyone either. I will see what I can do. shp

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:12:47 (GMT) From: janet the schwartz Email: None To: shp and turner Subject: heyheyhey--I AM The Schwartz! I DECIDE who I'm in! Message:

and if I'm with you, you can bet I'll let you KNOW I am! (grumble grumble, fricka-fracka, fricka-fracka, no good arguing goody twoshoes wannabees....) I'm the only Schwartz around here, and when I want your opinion, I'll give it to you! grrrrrrr. the Leo has spoken. We are not amused.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 16:49:23 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: FA Subject: FA, can you retrieve a message I was sending? Message:

While you were archiving, I was sending a PS to Turner ('a dialog not a debate') and it seems to be lost now? Can you retrieve it and post it under this new thread. 'preciate it Sandy

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 14:11:16 (GMT) From: AJW Email: anthginn@yahoo.com To: Everyone Subject: European Latvian Night. Message:

Bonjour, Good morning, Namaste, Hoya middach, gutten morgan, bonjourno, buenes dias, g'day, Hailt'Zelta, etc. The Year ahead is filled with remarkable possibilities, and it has been some time since honorary members of the Latvian club, their guests and friends, got together to celebrate the good things in life. These night frequently end with one or more forum personalities in comical states of inebriation. (The International Event last year in San-Francisco, while extremely enjoyable because of the wonderful company, good food, and warm conversation- was not noteworthy for anyone passing out on the table - an achievement of a transatlantic guest at a Parisian Latvian night last Spring. Or the even more debauched behaviour witnessed in the old Latvian Club in London- the memories of which I've no desire to regurgitate upon the carpet of the forum.) Anyway, one of our lawyers is in Europe soon, so we thought it would be appropriate to celebrate with a European Latvian night. Also, our authentic Latvian connection- JHB, will be around for a while from Riga, so maybe an evening of food, wine and (cough cough)laughter would be in order. A suggested venue is the Netherlands- very cheap on EasyJet from the UK, if you book in advance. Maybe sometime around early to middle February. If John can't make it over here, we could always have a night out in London too- unless they put the Iron Curtain back up and he gets trapped behind it. So, get your dairies out, Anth the milk and cheese please.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 14:34:37 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: AJW Subject: European Latvian Night. Message:

Anth, My trip to the UK will be fairly hectic, so adding an extra trip out to the Netherlands is probably not practical. If we're having a bash in London, Friday 9th March looks good for me. John not in Riga, but in the countryside near Limbazi.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 15:50:14 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: MarianneDB@aol.com To: JHB and Anth Subject: Sign me up!!!! and OT Message:

Hey, I'll be there, wherever it is. Email me about the location and plans. I'm safe and sound in Cork, and expecting to meet up with Tim G. and Maurice in the near future. Maybe we can convince one or both of them to come along. And what about you, Kelly? Looking forward to seeing you all, Marianne

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 04:44:29 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Sign me up!!!! and OT Message:

Dear Marianne and all of you over there :), Glad to see you made it safely! :) Too exciting, meeting all these new exes and then those old ones too. Maybe I can be a phone in guest at Latvian Night! As I recall you all wanted to call last time, maybe I can get an international phone card! :) Love, Robyn

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:04:34 (GMT) From: Mystery Guest Email: None To: Anthy Subject: Sign me up!!!! too. (NT) Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 22:34:10 (GMT) From: AJW Email: anthginn@yahoo.com To: Mystery Guest Subject: No problem Message:

No problem, email me, and I'll send you the nineteen page questionnaire, registration form, smart card application form, bankers order, and bottle for your blood sample. Anth the vampire

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Date: Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 00:27:40 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: AJW Subject: No problem Message:

Dear Anth, So no strict security for phoned in guests? :) Don't be lured in by my friendly, non threatening demenor, I am really mysterious and quite dangerous even on the phone. Love, Robyn possibly NOT so mild mannered

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 09:26:50 (GMT) From: sam Email: . To: Everyone Subject: brainslag OT Message:

I know this is gross, but a christian friend came by this arvo, who does not have internet and we tuned in (talkcity.com -christian seniors- her choice)and it really taught me the ultimate lesson on brainwashing- they cant make a decision in life without saying- we'll pray and wait to see what he says- the most UNempowered people I have ever heard- but sadly sincere and lovely people- makes m's cult look empowered! So glad to be out there using my mind!!!!!!!!! for whatever purpose- at least it's mine.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 10:46:14 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: sam Subject: brainslag OT Message:

onya sam

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 05:52:41 (GMT) From: TED Farkel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: OK,Mr.eDrek,its service,service,service... Message:

Mr.eDrek- You know, it's funny having a mentor like you...I was hoping that you would 'cut me a little slack' on walkin the straight and narrow... Like take this 'FALLING in love business'...are you sure that it's really the mind? And is there really no difference between a beautiful gopi like Pauline Premie and that old sow wallowing in the mud behind the outhouse?...I don't know, but for now I'll stay with your advice and stay on that razor thin path of truth... Ok, let's see, you want real stuff now, don't you...statistics,fact sheets, attendance records,concession profits,foamy numbers... As of now, we have 6 full time aspirants here at the transmission repair shop.... Donnie Wayne Williams-6 nights-36 foamies@$1.50=$54.00 Billy Joe Bob Backer-14 nights-84 foamies@1.50=$126.00 Jimmy Joe Clontz-10 nights-60 foamies@1.50=$90.00 Selene and Beth Carter-20 nights-240 foamies@0.00=$0.00(ladies nite free beer) Mr. Joseph Whalen-2 nights-2 foamies@$1.50= -$3.00(didn't pay and actually took $1.50/beer from donation box) OK,if you notice that the 2 ladies have been comin on Tues. nights only, on account of the free beer...they've been coming for 5 months now, the proper allotted time for the divine seed to percolate in the heart(if you didn't know this, Mr.eDrek,you can impress those fellers at the Participation Team meeting with that 5 month fact...believe me, when you can drop a fact like that to the bigshots at national it goes a long way...) Donnie, Billy and Jimmy Joe are comin along, blissfully listening to David Smith wax on eloquently about the rigors of the path of devotion and cold showers...they prefer the boob site, but are respectful of Mr. Smith, except when he tries to mooch too many beers off them... Mr. Whalen is sorta new to these parts and we're not sure what to make of him...he's a pretty smart feller, and sometimes it seems like he knows more about this than he lets on....David Smith is eying him carefully too...I think he's OK, but I wish he would pay for his beer, ya know what I mean?(he does that old trick of puttin his hand in the donation box like he's droppin money in for the foamy,but he's actually takin a few bucks out) So that's it for the figures...Dave Smith is cuttin up and I think it's good for him...drinkin foamies, swappin old darshan stories, banging on the oil drums all night, howling at the moon, sleeping with the blue-tic hounds...its good for the boy, I hope national doesn't cut him loose....maybe I'll get the Raja that simgle malt scotch and peruvian powder that you recommended and convince him to let dave stay on... I'm sorry that you can't hoot and holler and have to hide your flask at the videos out there in Westlake Village...that's kinda sad... See, that's what's wrong with the whole thing these days...kinda lost all the fun, the spontinaity, just watching those videos all night... Down here in alabama we got it all-beer, videos, outdoor pig pickins, klan visits late at night,dave smith takin off his clothes, greasin up in pig fat, banging on drums, singin arti with a hub cap and used motor oil...we just take it like it is and one day at a time here in Shaft... Synchronistically yours, TED Farkel Poppin,tootin,tokin,bangin,munchin,and singin the praises.... Synchronized TRAC Manager and Senior Synchronized Mobile Jumbler Coordinator and Contact Person(for the southeast)

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:16:23 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: TED Farkel Subject: TED, this is incredibly BAD! Message:

This is incredibly bad! I must have been completely in my mind thinking that something was happening back at your Superfund site of a transmission repair shop. By my accounting if the foamies cost $1 each there is only a meager $27 profit. And that's after serving nearly 422 foamies. Do you see anything wrong here? TED, the $27 doesn't even come close to paying Visions for the video subscription! What the hell are you going to do when there are no more videos and it's all done by satellite with direct debit against your SmartCard with per seat charges? But, TED, I've got bigger problems than that. Well, actually my problem can go away completely if only I had some cash. What kind of cash can you raise in 24 hours, TED? I mean serious cash, too. I just got off a two hour phone call with Randy Prouty and there's big trouble brewing at the Malibu Marble Palace. It seems that Amar wasn't very happy with the Ford Expedition he got for Christmas and instead he wants one of those BMW SUVs that cost a whole lot more money. Because of Amar's disappointment life has been a living hell in Malibu. Maharaji has been locked in his bedroom now for four days and it's starting to smell bad. The only time anyone sees him is when they bring him food. Maharaji has missed four AA meetings and people are thinking he's got some booze stashed and he's probably drinking again. You see, TED, the problem is that Maharaji is broke! Busted! Flat lined! You remember the 'successful private investor' thing? Well, it seems that Maharaji having been gifted lots of DelTek stock by Ken and Donald DeLaski sold DelTek at its bottom and then bought Amazon.com at its top at $110 (after the split) and now Amazon is tanking at $14. Of course, everyone in Malibu advised Maharaji against this play, but Maharaji was absolutely fascinated and enthralled by the fact that he could always order the latest book of Kabir poetry at anytime of day. So, Maharaji won't take the loss and sell because he KNOWS that Amazon is going to one day make a real profit. And that's the reason Maharaji has no cash. And then there's the price of aviation fuel which means Maharaji has been cooped up in the house for nearly three months now and everybody, but everybody is sick of him and wants him outta there so they can have some peace and quiet for a change. There's one thing to be serving the Lord, but it's another when he really is omnipresent and never goes away. Even the most seasoned devotee can only take so much of that. Anyway, that's what Randy Prouty told me. I called him back to get some clarification on a few things, but, you know, he couldn't recall a single thing that he had previously told me. He must have just finished meditating. So, TED, do you understand what this means to me? I'm trying to get back into the Good Graces of our Lord after sorta falling off the path for awhile. Randy is my old buddy back when I lived in that dirty cockroach infested hotel in Miami and now Randy is putting his neck on the line by sponsoring me. Randy was really excited about what I was telling about the Farce's Transmission Repair and Auto-Knowledge Centre (TRAC) in Shaft, Alabama because it was a sign that propagation was alive and the smell of money was in the air once again. And now you're telling me that we've got only 6 aspirants and we're practically giving away the beer? Are Selene and Beth Carter worth looking at? Do we have anything that we can work with to make it sound better? Can't you cook those numbers or something? TED, this is really, really bad. Can it get any worse, TED? Well, YES! It can and does get worse. And here's how. Randy says that there is so much bad blood between Joe Whalen and David Smith that these guys would probably tear each other apart if they came within fifty yards of each other. Now the fact that David Smith apparently doesn't recognize Joe Whalen means that David Smith has blown a gasket again and needs another trip to Amaroo where he can get his head together while digging sewer pipe ditches on The Land. It's just Dave, a shovel, and Dave's mind broiling away in the hot sun. Works every time. We gotta get David Smith outta there before Whalen 'outhouses' him. Seeing your life flash before your eyes after you've been shoved head first down the hole is one hell of a way to go that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. TED, let's make sure that we are perfectly synchronized and get David Smith outta town now. They got an airport in Shaft with connections to Sydney, Australia? I want Smith on the next flight and I don't care if you've got to sell your El Camino to do it. We'll deal with this Whalen guy later. Jai Satchitanand P.S. TED, if you screw up here I think that you can forget all about Pauline Premie.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 04:50:46 (GMT) From: TED Farkel Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Don't panic,eDrek,lite at end of tunnel,maybe..... Message:

Mr. eDrek- OK, son, slow down, lets go over these figures again... I think we may just find that we got some good news and some bad news... First, lets take the most important things first, the Foamy stats.(These are synchronized with National, and have been cleared on First Class, so you know they're OK). Your math's a little rusty, son, but maybe you learned your accounting skills at COLL or Denver IHQ, or something, cos we got the following totals: 422 foamies served $267 taken in ($270-$3 taken out by aspirant Joe W.) $211 spent on wholesale foamies (roughly $.50/apiece, bought in bulk at Sam's discount House) $44 spent on pretzels (those boys can munch, especially when it gets to the really excitin parts of the video) Profit of $12.00 (would have been $15.00, but slippery Joe did his thing) I'm thinkin of chargin for the boob site, maybe $.50/minute, and maybe gettin one of them blackjack card machines in here too. Could also make the outhouse a 'pay as you go' system, or something like that...(a buck a crap?, $.50 if you just use the woods?) Now, as far as cookin those numbers, I see some light at the end of the tunnel on that one, Mr. eDrek... Like Mr. JM, the instructor says, we can be 'liberal' when it comes to those numbers, and here's how I'm fixin to do it... Tues nite, ladies nite, we're gonna cook up a big pot of chile...real hot stuff, lots of possum, squirrel, and other assorted varmints we can throw in... Believe me, theres gonna be plenty of 'outhouse runs' that night..I think we can safely cook those numbers and count each person as they come through the door...I expect that between me and TED JR., the 6 aspirants,plus all the free ladies, we'll have at least 80-100 counted that night... Now about that 70's disco suit...do I have one? Son, does a bear shit in the woods? Those suits didn't come in down here until the late 80's, and their all the rage down here in Shaft, and in the big city too (Mobile)...remember, they're called leisure suits, and we swear by em down here at the TRAC center....nice wide lapels, bell bottom pants that end halfway up the calf with a nice clean pair of white socks,polka dot shirt, we're way ahead of ya son...did you know that 'Kramer' shops in Shaft? And about Pauline, god what I'd do for a date with her...I swear we'd just have satsang,er excuse me, share our experience, er excuse me, share our understanding of maharajis experience that he's having, and maybe plan a little service, I mean participation, to express our gratitude....(oh the gratitude I'd have if I could synchronize with that gal...I think she'd experience a litttle service too) Bear with me, Mr. eDrek, we were up late last night banging on the drums with dave, I'm a little tired...I like the guy, hate to see him get shipped off to amaroo to dig ditches...why he could dig em here if he likes, we're gonn need a new crapper right soon, with all the increaed traffic we've had since the TRAC center got synched up with national... Later dude, TED Farkel propagation specialist

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:30:17 (GMT) From: Boo Radley Email: None To: TED Farkel Subject: TED, Oh, Mr. TED.... Message:

Do you min' if I pop in some evenin' after I done my chores for the local folks 'roun here? They're mighty kind ta me, but I do find myself hankerin' for more. Sounds like you got the ticket to ride fo' me. I specially'd like it if I could hold the hub cap with the oily rag some night too, the light mus' be perdy shining in the dark like that. I promised Scout I'd let her tag along, and seein' she's a lady (more in the line of Pauline Premie and not that mud hog you got out back of yer shop), I reckon I be droppin' in on a Tuesday night so Scout can drink her foamies fer free. I can bring some salty snacks if yer'd like. Thank you, Mr. TED. Respectfully, Boo Radley

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 23:28:57 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Boo Radley Subject: No, no more ladies night, Boo Message:

Boo, as much as I have always liked your band I'm not sure if we can afford to have you standing in a darkened corner of the Auto-Knowledge Centre like some weird bongo.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 00:11:34 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: May the Farce be with you Message:

The three of you have got to be the best thing going on this forum - except maybe Pauline Premie. That's if you are really three separate bodies and not just three people in one body as we all were for many years: me, my mind and my soul. Pauline and I were emailing each to try to find a new word for soul. 'The Force,' she said. 'The Farce,' said I.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 04:26:22 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Ohmygod - Its BLODDERS!!! Message:

Funny how Grace works innit? Two new people have reminded me of my old Aspirant Coordinator from manchester, George Blodwell Well, would you adam-and-eve it, I found him online Here ya go: Interview with George Blodwell

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 14:24:59 (GMT) From: Big John Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Ohmygod - Its BLODDERS!!! Message:

Lets try this one again,Blodders alias in the playgirl pics was Anthony Tumbridge Wells(I am now trying from a machine with WinNet!)

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 01:50:19 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Big John Subject: Anthony Tunbridge Wells? Message:

Jeez how the heck did you remember that John, very impressive - or do you still have the mag tucked under your bed? Come on, you can tell us!!

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:25:30 (GMT) From: BigJohn Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Anthony Tunbridge Wells? Message:

No, Gafi's girlfriend janet bought a copy and the name was just so tacky that even my mind couldn't let that one slip! (Well thats my story, and I'm sticking to it-if you'll pardon the expression).

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 14:36:10 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Big John Subject: Welcome Big John! Message:

Welcome and thanks for writing your journey! John Brauns

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 14:45:46 (GMT) From: Big John Email: None To: JHB Subject: Welcome Big John! Message:

Pleasure (and pain) was all mine!

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 05:34:38 (GMT) From: Frank /Thelma Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Ohmygod - Its BLODDERS!!! Message:

I've got his nude pics from the Playgirl spread in 79/80 but I have to find them before I can scan them. They're in a dirty old shoe box somewhere with my other divine pornography. You know, the mala dances etc. Hey I was desperate for something to look at while having a wank in the ashram. Also got a pic of the Rev completely nude from the waist up if any of you are good with photoshop. I've done a few but it's boring as they don't work as porno anymore. In fact it just makes me shrivel.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 05:47:50 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Frank /Thelma Subject: Did you read his bio? Message:

I read it twice, couldnt see any mention of his Playgirl photoshoot or his early career as Aspirant Coordinator for the Living Lord? Seems to have done well for himself though. Gee I wonder if he'd remember us poor slobs from the past? Would he WANT to remember us?;-) Do you suppose his current agency would be able to give us his email address? Everybody loved George actually, it was hard not too really!

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 08:21:15 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Dear George Message:

He was awful in bed but had a wonderful sense of humor. Once, in a service meeting in England in 1974, he cracked a really good joke and the Rev Rawat told him, 'One day you will just make one joke too many.' There's an audio tape of it. Don't lets knock him too hard. He's is terrible social-climber but may not be a Lifer.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 10:09:12 (GMT) From: Jethro Email: None To: Frank Subject: Dear George Message:

I liked George too. We used to live in the same ashram(London (UK), Kalisia Ave 77/78) for a while. He worked in Brown's at the time and gave me a great tie as a present and was not afraid of the house father(Nick -Seymour Jones)who was a bit of a religious zealot. My guess is that he is still in the cult. Hope I'm wrong. regards Jethro

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:08:16 (GMT) From: C.George Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Dear George Message:

I remember George Blodders from Browns in south Molton Street. Nice friendly, upbeat kind of guy - more of an extrovert than the usually introverted premie. Did you know that Nick Symore Jones passed away recently?Apparently there was an obit on one of the Elan Vital sites. I couldn't find it when I looked. Bye, Curious George

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 08:38:10 (GMT) From: Jethro Email: None To: C.George Subject: George:Yes I knew nick died Message:

It was announced here on the forum. I have no sorrow about that. Regards Jethro

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 13:00:50 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Me too Jeth'. Message:

Hi Jethro, I liked George too. He always came over as a warm human being with a great sense of humour. I hope he's managed to find his way out of the cult, along with the rest of us heretics. I'd share a pint or a spliff with him any time. Anth the alcoholic with no short-term memory and a bad cough.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:20:08 (GMT) From: Monmot Email: None To: Bazza Subject: I Don't Know About George, But His Wife Message:

is still into Maharaji. I spoke to her at a party a few years ago, and when I told her I wasn't into Maharaji anymore, she told me 'she would kill for the Master.' Talk about a buzz kill conversation. What can one say to a person who's like that? George still looks mahvelous. He's a nice guy, very charming and, of course, well dressed. :)

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 08:22:24 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Monmot Subject: I Don't Know About George, But His Wife Message:

Is that the American green-card wife?

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:23:58 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Monmot Subject: I Don't Know About George, But His Wife Message:

What can one say to a person who's like that? 'I'll pass on the KoolAid, thanks!'

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 08:27:39 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Bazza Subject: But His Wife's Message:

sister (no one's gonna believe this) turned against the guru in 1980, had an surgery to create a penis and married a Large German dyke who liked to be fisted. They were so weird that I got sick listening to them at dinner in a restaurant one night - thought it was rotten fish.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 12:03:28 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Frank Subject: er, Frank...this is a family show!! Message:

I think you might like to send Thelma over to Sir David's wonderful Alternative site: Anything Goes I think you'd like some of the regulars there:)

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 18:59:18 (GMT) From: Frank Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Point taken Message:

PS I was talking about his first wife's sister.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 07:36:33 (GMT) From: suchab... Email: None To: Bazza Subject: 'she would kill for the Master'[like Fakiranand(nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:35:38 (GMT) From: Monmot Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Yeah, And Vote For Gun Control :)))) nt Message:

mm

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:15:21 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Where is Buffy?.......nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 07:29:25 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: salam Subject: No need moola? like,'we're already successful' (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 14:10:14 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: such Subject: not me. Message:

moola moola the dung is back. Found a great way to make it, soon will be wipping my ass with it.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:32:27 (GMT) From: Curious George Email: None To: salam Subject: Perhaps it's not funny.... Message:

I typed in George Blodwell on Yahoo just to keep up to date on what he is up to these days. The third entry for the famous George Blodwell was on Christopher Quartus Giles's Journey on the Forum. Mentions George Blodwell as the Edinburgh ashram treasurer. Whoops! - probably doesn't look too good on Blodder's resume! C.G.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 15:29:05 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Curious George Subject: Brian and Katie could be in trouble Message:

Anyone sent this fellow an invitation to this mad house yet?

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:07:25 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: Rawatsucks@home.org To: salam Subject: Lost your e-mil add. again........ Message:

....don't advise by e-mail. Ollie. :)))

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 02:47:04 (GMT) From: wondering Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Fine Dining Message:

Some time ago a woman wrote about a terrible experience she had at Amaroo with a cook at Fine Dining. (She doing service as a server.) The cook smashed and bashed her to smithereens for something he didn't like. Does anyone remember her name? (I didn't recognize it in journeys.) And does anyone know where that post can be found, or could you repost it? Thanks. --Just wondering

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 20:14:41 (GMT) From: Lesley Email: None To: wondering Subject: Fine Dining Message:

Dear 'wondering', Would you mind telling me a bit more about yourself? Are you an australian, why are you wondering. That 'fine dining' story wasn't mine, I've got my own, and I'll happily tell, but I guess I would kinda like to at least know what your interest is. Lesley aka Lotus Eater ps I just followed that link, thanks Barry, and read the story, ahh the memories, perhaps they should do a hungi at the next event. That is where you dig a pit, line it with stones, heat them up, put a PIG in it, cover it over and slow cook him for several hours, and then serve him up!

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:13:19 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: wondering Subject: It was Gail! Message:

She's a Canadian ex and still posts here occasionally. Bazza's got the right post - she used the name 'Iola' when she first started posting here. (I have heard that story from her in person, and it's a good one! Imagine spending the money to fly from Canada to Amaroo, and then trying to do 'service', and THEN getting called names for it.)

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:41:16 (GMT) From: C.G. Email: None To: Katie Subject: another story Message:

Apart from when I flew in and was greeted with my share of abuse..... quite recently I met a young guy from the U.K. I think it was in Toronto. He had been told to take time off work where he was geting paid mega dollars for setting up stage, lights etc for some famous pop group in the U.S. He was livid because he was told he was wanted to set up for m and then when he arrived he was told he wasn't needed. (I can't believe I told him not to be pissed off.) Sound familiar? Regards, C.G.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 05:31:14 (GMT) From: wondering Email: None To: Katie Subject: Was the cook Valerio? Message:

Katie, you're right. It was Gail. She doesn't say who the cook was. I'm wondering if it was Valerio? Do you know? Thanks for any info. (I think that berating by the cook was the last straw for Gail.)

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:19:43 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: Katie Subject: Hi Katie (OT,nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:21:56 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: wondering Subject: Could this be it? Message:

From the archives, courtesy Sir David's search engines: Thief and a Liar, by Lola

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 05:15:32 (GMT) From: Rick Email: None To: wondering Subject: Was it TD? Message:

I remember the story and the post. If I had to guess I'd say it was TD.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:15:23 (GMT) From: Monmot Email: None To: Rick Subject: It May Have Been Lotus Eater/Lesley nt Message:

mm

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 02:01:01 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Re:you're post on AG................ot Message:

Where did you get the news about Saddam Hussien having a heart attack?

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 02:31:57 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: salam Subject: Not a heart attack Message:

A stroke. I heard it on the radio. He's in hospital after having suffered a stroke. How bad the stroke is, is not known although I would expect it to be serious particularly at his age although not completely immobilising. Now is the right time for someone else to seize power.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:12:28 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: You sure Message:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1102000/1102411.stm Iraqi state television says President Saddam Hussein will deliver his annual army day speech on Saturday - a development which may further dispell rumours that he has suffered a severe stroke. The speech, marking the 80th anniversary of the establishment of the Iraqi army, is to be broadcast on radio and television at 1100 (0800 GMT) and will be addressed to the Iraqi people and the Arab world at large, the TV said. Mr Hussein has meanwhile made another appearance on Iraqi television - his second in two days. He was shown chatting to a group of entertainers including Egyptian actor Muhammad Subhi and the Syrian star Raghda. The group has been in Baghdad since 22 December to perform a play and distribute toys and presents to Iraqi children. 'Saddam loves his nation, but he loves Egypt especially because he has lived in Egypt,' the television commentary said. The president was shown both standing and seated, greeting the actors and discussing the concept of pan-Arabism and the Palestinian situation. BBC monitors said he appeared to be in good health.The broadcast did not indicate when the pictures were recorded. Stroke dismissed On Wednesday, an Iraqi Government spokesman dismissed as ridiculous a report from an Iraqi opposition group in Syria that the president, who is 63, had suffered a stroke on Sunday. p.s. notice how face in the picture is longer than normal. Is also withered. I think this could be one of his doubles.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 12:27:44 (GMT) From: Mr Bubblehead Email: None To: Salam Subject: You sure Message:

You can't have more than one double. If there's three, then it would be his triplet, four his quad etc.

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 02:26:19 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Mr Bubblehead Subject: Dear Mr. Bubblehead Message:

I venture to disagree with you. These people are known as 'doubles', and as Salam mentions, Sadaam(sp?) is known to have more than one. A little petty for you - I'm surprised. Are you teasing Salam? Has Mrs. Scruggle been keeping you up all night since Mr. Scruggle died? What does Mrs. Bubblehead think of it? No, PLEASE DON'T tell me!!!!

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 08:10:29 (GMT) From: Mr B Email: None To: Stonor Subject: hahahaha Message:

Dear Miss Anna, I was just teasing. Mrs Scruggle sends her love oxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 13:31:31 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Mr Bubblehead Subject: Thanks for the english lesson Message:

but I did not as for it. This criminal is know to have about 10 'look alike'.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:13:59 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: Salam Subject: According to BBC World service he appered on...... Message:

......for his annual 'My shit don't stink lecture' but it was pre-recorded. Don't worry about Mr Muddlehead, s/he is just a bubble. ~~Oliver.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 02:03:46 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: salam Subject: This post is to Sir Dave....nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 11:35:22 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: salam Subject: This post is too Sir Dave and Salam....... Message:

.....See my reply to Harry on Anything Goes

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 00:40:56 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Everyone Subject: FYI: VDT-related health risks (OT) Message:

During a dinner with some friends, the topic of eye strain from computer monitors came up, and I decided to do a search. I thought others here might be interested in the following: Although the first studies on the effects of VDT on health were done in Sweden in the early 1970s, these studies focused on how VDTs and the work environment might be responsible for user fatigue and musculoskeletal symptoms. The effect of EMR emitted from VDTs became the focus in 1977 when two young employees (aged 29 and 35) at The New York Times had cataracts. Including these two individuals, eight cases of cataracts, presumably related to VDT, were reported by The Newspaper Guild. In 1979, a cluster ... Video Display Terminals: Risk of Electromagnetic Radiation And are thought to suppress the immune system, from VDT health risks: What to do while the jury's out The above site also includes tips on how to reduce the risk level. don't be fooled into thinking the jury is out - remember how long the jury was kept out on smoking and is still being kept(bought) out on many other serious issues? I bought a screen that reduces glare and radiation for my monitor yesterday. Anna

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 17:16:43 (GMT) From: Oliver Email: None To: Stonor Subject: Was this before or after receiving my spam (OT) nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 19:29:14 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Oliver Subject: It's no protection against spam! Message:

But even as a vegetarian, I rather enjoyed the change of diet - a bit like eating turkey every couple of years when I have Christmas dinner with friends! ;-) And I did thank you for that pic of your backside - I'm getting to know you from all perspectives! And those two students in that pic are married, sorry!

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Date: Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 05:44:51 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Stonor Subject: ring ring. Sonor dating service. Message:

Sorry we're closed during the school holiday, but you can reach us on F5. Thank you

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 01:46:24 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Stonor Subject: sucker Message:

all you needed is a polorization screen that cost 25 dollars.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 02:17:09 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Salam Subject: sucker not Message:

That's about what I paid for mine, if you're talking USD - my friends shared the result of their smart shopping. Do you already have a few?

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:19:29 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Stonor Subject: Oops. Message:

Sorry ,thought you said a new monitor. Yeah got pleanty of them, dono where they are but? Keep falling of the monitor. Write.

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Date: Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 06:40:31 (GMT) From: Joy Email: joy52@earthlink.net To: Salam and Stonor Subject: PowerBook is the Way to Go Message:

None of those screens work adequately, I did extensive research into this, since I am electromagnetically sensitive. There is something called a Tri-Field Meter which measures electromagnetic fields very accurately (they're expensive and you can rent them). (You'd be surprised where EMFs can come from, thru walls etc.) I found the screens did virtually nothing to block it out. However, the flat screen monitors which are just coming out, as well as the notebook/Powerbook monitors emit virtually NO EMFs. I took the meter to the computer store and measured them all. I can sit in front of my PowerBook indefinitely without eye strain or getting dizzy or red in the face (which would happen after 10 minutes on my old CRT monitor).

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