Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 02:45:51 (GMT)
From: Mar 03, 2001 To: Mar 15, 2001 Page: 2 Of: 5


Swallow Hotel Security -:- TED Farkel -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 01:35:57 (GMT)
__ Room Service -:- TED Farkel -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 01:39:22 (GMT)

michael donner -:- thanks -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 00:48:08 (GMT)
__ Dermot -:- thanks -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 13:27:08 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- michael who? -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 12:33:43 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Anth's still reeling from his 'Children of God' -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 17:25:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Nooooo Jim. -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 12:06:39 (GMT)
__ __ Dermot -:- u been smoking that wacky baccy again Anth -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 13:35:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Dermot, you forgot... -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 12:11:23 (GMT)
__ Loaf -:- thanks -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 08:38:05 (GMT)
__ Aussi Ji -:- Welcome aboard from down under mate. -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 04:27:18 (GMT)
__ bill burke -:- your Journey/storey -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 03:51:39 (GMT)
__ __ What Bill's really saying -:- your Journey/story -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 09:46:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- Fuzzbee, is that you?...nt -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 15:55:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Cult activist, are you? -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 01:03:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Poor guy..... -:- Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 22:27:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ Michael Dettmers -:- What Bill is really saying... -:- Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 22:08:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Turner -:- What Bill is really saying... -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 22:29:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Michael Dettmers -:- Turner says that -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 13:38:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Turner is urinating in the wind NT -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 15:12:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- What Bill is really saying... -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 22:47:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- What Turner is really saying... -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 03:50:00 (GMT)
__ Latvians -:- thanks and welcome nt -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:27:10 (GMT)
__ janet schwartz of venice -:- HEY MICHAEL-WELCOME ABOARD!LONG TIME NO SEE! -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:14:44 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- thanks, Michael -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:01:34 (GMT)
__ moldy warp -:- I've E mailed you nt(means no text I have gleaned) -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 01:05:00 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- I've E mailed you, Moldy -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:03:35 (GMT)

Susan -:- The Sopranos, Clintons and Rawats -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 23:05:50 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- The Sopranos, Clintons and Rawats -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:39:20 (GMT)
__ Monmot -:- Most excellent, Susan -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:00:48 (GMT)
__ Postie -:- The Sopranos, Clintons and Rawats - interesting -:- Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 21:38:16 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- thanks, someone cares! -:- Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 21:42:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet d eye-taliano -:- whadda yoo meen, 'sumwun caih's'? of cawss -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 09:23:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Michael Dettmers -:- thanks, someone cares! -:- Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 21:52:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Susan -:- well thank you Michael -:- Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 21:57:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- well thank you Michael -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:42:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Thanks Susan, I was going to post this but -:- Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 23:12:51 (GMT)

Marianne, Kelly, hamzen -:- Greetings from London -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:16:54 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Wait wait wait -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 08:27:46 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- Wait wait wait -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 16:07:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- OK, I promise -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:34:22 (GMT)
__ WPC -:- Greetings from London -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 01:45:12 (GMT)
__ __ another one -:- raja ji-first you have to defect publicly -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:21:46 (GMT)
__ __ Latvian Partyicipants -:- HI Hopes Anth! -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 01:53:07 (GMT)
__ Jethro and Barbara -:- To Marianne, Kelly, hamzen -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:29:53 (GMT)
__ __ kelly -:- To Marianne, Kelly, hamzen -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:40:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Suchabanana -:- I got socks! [ashram approved 10 shillings] -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:53:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- To Marianne, Kelly, hamzen -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 04:02:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- To Marianne, Kelly, hamzen et al. -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 23:06:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Kellyanne -:- To Marianne, Kelly, hamzen et al. -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 23:22:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- To Marianne, Kelly, hamzen et al. -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 00:59:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ The Last Swallow -:- To Marianne, Kelly, hamzen et al. -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 00:26:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- To Marianne with love from San Francisco -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:07:14 (GMT)

jondon -:- Jackson provides glimpse of his groups' finances -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:16:09 (GMT)
__ Tell Man -:- Advise -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:23:27 (GMT)

Maharaji -:- April Fools Day in March -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:33:37 (GMT)
__ Bin Liner -:- Try smoking parsley , it'll fuck up -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:45:03 (GMT)
__ janet -:- move me up WHERE? i go where i choose,sumo boy -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:28:11 (GMT)
__ __ Monmot -:- Sumo Boy??? Excellent....LOL.........nt -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:05:28 (GMT)

Disculta -:- Michael Donner post from way below -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:29:50 (GMT)
__ Michael Dettmers -:- Welcome aboard!!! -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:09:43 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- To Michael Donner and Everyone -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:00:44 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Michael Donner post from way below -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:29:27 (GMT)
__ Way -:- Hey, Michael Donner, you showed up!!! -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:37:42 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- I've got something to apologize for a bit, Mike -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:56:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ michael donner -:- I've got something to apologize for a bit, Mike -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:11:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- More seriously -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 03:11:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Aliases? No way! Who? Who's using an alias?? -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:14:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- I'm still pissed at my parents for naming me ... -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:43:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- I'm still pissed at my parents for naming me ... -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:08:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- There's a book with your name on it, Thelma -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:16:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- There's a book with your name on it, Thelma -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:19:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma -:- Jim, I hope that wasn't a back-handed compliment -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:58:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- The Wasp Factory -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:53:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Thelma the Fat Fag -:- Jim, call me thick but I still don't get it -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 09:35:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- The Wasp Factory - oops, I got called away -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 03:01:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Way -:- The scary part -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:39:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mark A -:- No Way ! -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:16:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- actually he has a lot of kids besides no and goa.. -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 05:17:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sandy -:- While all that was going on in '83-'84 in Miami, -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:53:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Welcome Mike, yes the ''alias thing'' gets me too -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:39:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- I think we need flexibility -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 17:17:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- we need flexibility, Joe - excited utterances -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 18:39:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Welcome Mike, yes the ''alias thing'' gets me too -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:41:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- The majority of posters are not anonymice and -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:05:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ michael donner -:- story circulating -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:28:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- the reasons are endless -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:26:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Synchronicity, Selene -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:31:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- oops regarding that picture etc. -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 00:28:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- regarding that picture - I thought you looked thin -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:10:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- looking thin - it's the good haircut :) -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 05:54:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- I really posted mine under Roll Call -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:14:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- ok I know what you are up to -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:27:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- I don't know what you are up to - THAT forum? -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:29:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- yeah that forum. I need to crop the pic I have -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:34:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Oh go on show a bit of leg! -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:41:09 (GMT)

michael donner -:- my letter to m -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:53:01 (GMT)
__ bill burke -:- And to think I wanted to club you with a baragon. -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 03:06:23 (GMT)
__ Brian Smith -:- my letter to m, Thank you Michael -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 01:14:12 (GMT)
__ __ Kelly -:- Thank you Michael, Ditto. nt -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:31:53 (GMT)
__ Been There -:- Shaking hands -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 23:15:15 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- To: Michael Donner -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:34:10 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- thank you Michael Donner -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:56:04 (GMT)
__ Francesca Reitano -:- Hits the nail on the head -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:51:47 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Michael, I am not anonymous and here's my email -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:58:45 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Thanks Michael for posting that letter -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:47:25 (GMT)
__ Charles S. -:- Thank you for sharing that! Welcome to forum V nt -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:29:16 (GMT)
__ Mercedes -:- my letter to m -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:20:10 (GMT)
__ __ Postie -:- Welcome Mercedes -:- Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 21:19:57 (GMT)
__ Disculta -:- my letter to m -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:14:57 (GMT)
__ __ michael donner -:- my letter to m -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:26:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- Micheal...the FU video? -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 09:13:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Disculta -:- my letter to m -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:31:06 (GMT)
__ bobby -:- excellent!.... thank you michael (nt) -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:10:12 (GMT)
__ __ kev -:- thanks michael -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:29:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- kev, it helped me to write some really angry stuff -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:07:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Postie -:- I agree, Pat Conlon re: writing M -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:50:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mercedes -:- Why write him a letter -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:55:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- I decided not to write him a letter of resignation -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:07:48 (GMT)

michael donner -:- faqianand (sp?), detroit pie -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:21:42 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Fakiranand -:- Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 22:04:16 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- 'somethings going on inside LA'... -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:15:00 (GMT)
__ Disculta -:- Hey Michael -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:42:01 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Thank you for your accurate recall, but -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:40:11 (GMT)
__ __ michael donner -:- Thank you for your accurate recall, but -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:12:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Thanks a lot, I needed that -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 08:26:02 (GMT)
__ Postie -:- Welcome Michael -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:38:16 (GMT)
__ __ Postie -:- Fakiranand = Fakir(beggar) + Anand(bliss) -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:06:24 (GMT)

Mark Appleman -:- Another Spin on the Tale -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 16:31:10 (GMT)
__ bill burke -:- Talespin -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:36:49 (GMT)
__ __ suchabanana -:- long time no see. how are you, brother?!! Best,(nt -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:25:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill--Hi suchananda,...nt -:- it's easier to breathe with the 2 Mike's help eh? -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 15:28:43 (GMT)
__ Disculta -:- Spinning -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:19:20 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Spinning in Space -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:13:11 (GMT)
__ __ Disculta -:- Spinning in Space -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:31:39 (GMT)

salam -:- CW -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 14:41:50 (GMT)
__ Cw -:- CW -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:13:36 (GMT)
__ __ salam -:- you being very informative. -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 10:33:38 (GMT)

JANET -:- OPEN LETTER TO HANS AND AMAR RAWAT-'IF YOU SEE..' -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 08:12:47 (GMT)

JANET -:- IF YOU SEE THIS MESSAGE, I ASK YOU PLEASE- -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 08:09:10 (GMT)
__ Amar -:- I want birthdays like my cousin Shri Shadrack Ji-n -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 13:53:25 (GMT)
__ __ Amar's sister -:- You got to be kidding. We love it here. -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 14:08:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Amar -:- Leave your wallet, go on tour dad....nt -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 15:13:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Loaf -:- This for me is a sensitive issue.... -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:19:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- so when is a kid a young adult? -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:24:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- so when is a kid a young adult? -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 10:16:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- This for me is a sensitive issue.... -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:57:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- I agree - leaves kids out of it (nt) -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:01:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- adult children of alcoholics need to know -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 04:27:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Jane tand selene -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 11:04:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Amar's and friends -:- Hey leave us out of this -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 01:08:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shri Shradley Tiddly Wink -:- Hey, cuz, I'm sick of my old man too -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:17:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shri 'kin Essex boy -:- I know ya geezer... -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 10:20:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shri Shradley Tiddly Wink -:- You spotted me, Trainspotter Ji -:- Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 22:31:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shri 'kin Essex boy -:- Seems that we both have erred -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 11:15:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shri Shradley Tiddly Wink -:- Seems that we both have erred -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 18:29:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shri 'kin Essex boy -:- I am Jethro. I thought you were Hamzen. NT -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 19:21:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Hi, Jethro. I thought you were Hamzen -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 20:20:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Pat, who is/was Mahatma Trainspotter Ji?nt -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 21:32:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Pat, who is/was Mahatma Trainspotter Ji? -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 22:57:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Pat, who is/was Mahatma Trainspotter Ji? -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 09:00:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Jethro, let's gossip about Mahatma Trainspotter Ji -:- Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 09:45:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- But seriously -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:19:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- What do expect, they were taught by Anth..nt -:- Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 10:22:11 (GMT)

Jim -:- Have you guys seen our alternate reality recently? -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 03:54:18 (GMT)
__ moldy warp -:- I've e mailed them so watch this space -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 23:37:26 (GMT)
__ Phillip K. Dick fan -:- the book: The man in the High Castle (nt) -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 15:25:20 (GMT)
__ Abi -:- Have you guys seen our alternate reality recently? -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 14:52:27 (GMT)
__ bill--anyone got the time -:- and talent to run a ex-bhagwan site?..nt -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 13:38:51 (GMT)
__ janet -:- god--a parallel universe. a bizarro world. -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 07:59:27 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- No birthday card from Uncle Prem? -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 04:06:40 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- The Rawat Family Circus -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 04:06:38 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- Satpal and Fatpal! -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 06:31:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ Aussi Ji -:- Talking about Bhole Ji -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 06:45:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Jeff Bridgeford -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 14:38:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Jeff Bridgeford - One Foundation -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:48:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Aussi Ji -:- Jeff Bridgeford - One Foundation -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:25:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Thanks for info -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:36:03 (GMT)
__ __ Postie -:- Man in the High Castle -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 06:25:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Disculta -:- Their family and other animals -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 16:03:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Are you serious !!! -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 04:05:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Susan -:- another Sopranos analogy -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:04:02 (GMT)

Thelma the Church Lady -:- TED Farkel moonlights as yoga teacher in Alabama -:- Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 03:06:47 (GMT)
__ TED Farkel's Secretary: -:- Mr. Farkle has no comment.He is in Latvia now. nt -:- Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 00:10:43 (GMT)


Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 01:35:57 (GMT)
From: Swallow Hotel Security
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: TED Farkel
Message:
We're waiting for you in all our glory, TED! Where are you? You promised you'd be here tonight! All we have is the big bed between us! Hurry soon. It's room 247.
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 01:39:22 (GMT)
From: Room Service
Email: None
To: Swallow Hotel Security
Subject: TED Farkel
Message:
I'm terribly sorry but they don't seem to be taking this seriously.
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 00:48:08 (GMT)
From: michael donner
Email: mdonner@netidea.com
To: Everyone
Subject: thanks
Message:
just a moment to thanks many of you for your kind words of welcome to this site. i cannot imagine checking in daily but certainly from time to time. also working on a journal/story for what its worth. my email address is above (i think that is how it works) but i am not an everyday computer person.
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 13:27:08 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: thanks
Message:
thanks for your welcome in the post above.....it's a pleasure to return the compliment ......welcome!!
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 12:33:43 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: michael who?
Message:
are you that chirpy american geezer who tried to sell me truckload of stolen diapers once?

Or was it organic yogurt past its sell-by date?

Oh yeah, I almost forgot,

'Historically, all reactionary forces on the verge of extinction invariably conduct a last desperate struggle against the revolutionary forces, and some revolutionaries are apt to be deluded for a time by this phenomenom of outward strenght but inner weakness, failing to grasp the essential fact that the enemy is nearing extinction while they themselves are approaching victory.'

I think it's from Isiah. Or was it the Politics of Ecstasy?

Welcome to the madhouse.

Anth Foreign Language Press Peking 1967.

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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 17:25:59 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth's still reeling from his 'Children of God'
Message:
expose.

But did Donner really write that Maoist shit?

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 12:06:39 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Nooooo Jim.
Message:
It's straight out of the little red book.

The bastards made me read another of my cult broadsides in the small hours of Sunday morning, in somebody's hotel room, after we'd been kicked out of the bar.

I can't tell you how much it hurt Jim. Cold blades straight into my liver.

Comrade Anth

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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 13:35:43 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: u been smoking that wacky baccy again Anth
Message:
....haven't you got anything better to do than spend your time writing, smoking quality weed & hash, living in a small civilised liberated small European state and enjoying yourself ??

hmmm guess not.

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 12:11:23 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Dermot, you forgot...
Message:
food, wine, good company, books, films, painting, exhibitions, playing music, and having sex with soft toys.
anth the ha ha headonits
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 08:38:05 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: loafji@yahoo.com
To: michael donner
Subject: thanks
Message:
Welcome aboard Mike

What a M power trip the whole thing was - power and status - the giving and the granting of permissions.... I also agree with you that I bought into the Guru thing...

picking my way through the ruins now - I still stumble upon incredible treasures !

Nice to have you with us - all the best

Loaf

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 04:27:18 (GMT)
From: Aussi Ji
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Welcome aboard from down under mate.
Message:
G'day Michael,
Thank you for some more accurate information.I like to hear this stuff from someone who experienced it first hand.It makes for good ammo when speaking to premie friends who are still brainwashed.

Kindest Regards,
Aussi Ji.

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 03:51:39 (GMT)
From: bill burke
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: your Journey/storey
Message:
Please keep in mind when writing your Journey that some that read it will be really struggleing to break free of the long term cult programming and your elaboration of prem rawats actual personal behaviour will do them a world of good. Examples with details will do the most good for the most people.

Thanks for stepping up to the plate.

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 09:46:18 (GMT)
From: What Bill's really saying
Email: None
To: bill burke
Subject: your Journey/story
Message:
We'd like more dirt.

It helps if there's an element of truth in it but that's not necessary. After all, Bill's the guy who's spent a few years promoting the story that Maharaji fathered one of his brother's children. He so wanted it to be true, it must have broken his heart to learn otherwise. It was his 'scoop!'

Michael Dettmers was Public Enemy number 2 (or 3) on this site until he ditched his useless 'i'm going to respect an old, valued friendship and honor the confidences of someone who treated me with great love' crap and started braying like a hound. He made sure to minimize or leave out any of the 'good parts' so it really looked tawdry. What's so private about someone else's marriage, anyway? Take a lesson from him. He's gone from being a goat to a saint in the eyes of people who reviled him. Don't you want the acclaim of people you don't know through mere typing?

Grab a shovel and add to the pile. Every little bit helps. After all, can you imagine a more productive way to spend your time?

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 15:55:34 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: What Bill's really saying
Subject: Fuzzbee, is that you?...nt
Message:
gfjhd
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 01:03:27 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: What Bill's really saying
Subject: Cult activist, are you?
Message:
Thank you for making this post. Part of cult disinformation and discreditation tactics include exactly what you have said. When you don't like what someone has honestly reported, you attack that person specifically.

Jim Jones and his closest aides did the same thing.

Tell us, did you receive agya from Captain Rawat to make your post?

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Date: Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 22:27:18 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: What Bill's really saying
Subject: Poor guy.....
Message:
Man, this stuff is really affecting you, isn't it?

Sometimes there are rumors here, but they are actually quite rare. One thing I have learned over many years of being a premie is that most of the rumors I heard turned out to be true. Not all, just most. I'm sure you have had the same experience.

And if some unsupported rumors are bothering you, why aren't you making the same ranting protests about the absolute LIES on the Elan Vital website? Or are you so out of it that you actually believe that the ashrams were drug rehab centers and Maharaji never claimed to be the Incarnation of God.

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Date: Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 22:08:15 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Whoever you are
Subject: What Bill is really saying...
Message:
is that a lot of very sincere premies who really believed in Maharaji have suffered because of his selfish indifference to their concerns, are justifiably indignant at his greed, hypocrisy and lies, and want current and potential PWK's to know the full story so that they can make an informed decision about remaining in, or joining, his cult.

Michael

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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 22:29:48 (GMT)
From: Turner
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: What Bill is really saying...
Message:
You are so full of yourself Michael. What lies? He promised you, “Give me your love and I’ll give you peace”. Those who have done this have been given a peace that is truly satisfying. You and all the michaels who show up with their “darshan” stories will not erase this fact. You walked away from him when you thought you had him figured out - when you thought you had yourself figured out. Well, have you figured out the peace? Or are you content with an explanation that it’s all just a figment of imagination? A product of brainwashing? No don’t just brush it aside – it’s very powerful stuff this peace.

This story is indeed like the emperor’s new clothes, only with a twist. This time the tailors are telling the truth – it is only the wise that can see the beauty and elegance of his clothing. To the rest, he is naked. An age-old story that seems to remain the same throughout time. The shakedown drops bodies on one of two sides of the fence. One side is right…and the other is wrong.

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 13:38:00 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Turner
Subject: Turner says that
Message:
only the wise that can see the beauty and elegance of his clothing. To the rest, he is naked. An age-old story that seems to remain the same throughout time. The shakedown drops bodies on one of two sides of the fence. One side is right…and the other is wrong.

No doubt Turner, you believe youself to be one of the wise ones who has dropped on the 'right' side of the fence. We shall see soon enough.

Michael

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 15:12:52 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Turner is urinating in the wind NT
Message:
NT
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 22:47:55 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: What Bill is really saying...
Message:
Those who have done this have been given a peace that is truly satisfying.

And just what do you base this on? Because Maharaji says so? How do you know whether anyone else has peace or is satisfied? And what makes you think that people wouldn't be just as satisfied, or more satisfied, if they had never heard of Maharaji? How do you know you wouldn't be? What makes you think the 'peace' you say you experience has anything to do with Maharaji? How does he give you 'peace?' Through four meditation techniques? Through grace? Through mental telepathy? Just how does that happen?

You walked away from him when you thought you had him figured out - when you thought you had yourself figured out.

I would suggest that Michael was in a better position than you to figure Maharaji out. He certainly got to observe him more. Do you think Maharaji is difficult to 'figure out?' Why would you say that? Sounds like you have a pretty definite opinion of who or what he is; how did you come to that conclusion?

And Turner, if you as so satisfied, why are you here arguing with other people about this? Why on earth does it matter to you? Why do you care what any of us think if you have the ultimate peace? Don't you think it's just a little telling that you hang out here arguing about it; like maybe you aren't quite so sure, or feel the need to defend it lest it be undermined?

But it isn't difficult to figure out what the 'experience' was. It's the same 'experience' people say the have in all kinds of Religions and belief systems. That, and possibly some calming experience coming from doing mudane meditation techniques. I know the 'experience of peace' is something that I've had a lot more after I left Maharaji, than I ever did while I was a premie.

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 03:50:00 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Turner
Subject: What Turner is really saying...
Message:
Turner said: ''The shakedown drops bodies on one of two sides of the fence. One side is right…and the other is wrong.''

There is no right or wrong in the non-duality of endless peace and you know that as well as I do. It's what you as a human being do with your inner peace that matters in this world. That is called loving one's neighbor as oneself in a civilized society.

Maharaji has the morals (or lack of) of a Hindu and has no respect for the values of the western world. Are you comfortable denying your innate values of brotherly love and compassion? He isn't. That's why he has a guilty conscience and has to drink himself to sleep every night.

The Knowledge is a wonderful thing if it is taught by a responsible teacher. But the real teacher is inside. You don't need to defend a Master for whom you have to make excuses and are ashamed of.

You don't need a master at all. You are perfect in yourself. If you were not capable of being perfect all on your own then God indeed is a sadist. No, we were provided with everything that we need by our creator and that includes inner peace.

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:27:10 (GMT)
From: Latvians
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: thanks and welcome nt
Message:
cu later
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:14:44 (GMT)
From: janet schwartz of venice
Email: Jai_Choix@webtv.net
To: michael donner
Subject: HEY MICHAEL-WELCOME ABOARD!LONG TIME NO SEE!
Message:
THIS IS GREAT! i remember you from IHQ. wondered what became of you. I am really looking forward to hearing your part of this saga. I always liked you so very muchly. great to have you here! what can we get you? what do you drink? need an ashtray? start a tab and order anything you like.the waiter's putting it all on rawat's credit card
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:01:34 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: thanks, Michael
Message:
Perhaps you won't visit us everyday. That's what I said two months ago when I first started posting. But I have so fallen in love with about 20 people here. Some of the most wonderful people became premies and they remain so passionate and concerned even as exes.

I'm sure you've already realized that, even if you did not know us, we thought fondly of you. I wish you the best of everything life has to offer.

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 01:05:00 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: I've E mailed you nt(means no text I have gleaned)
Message:
Sorry my server(?) won't send this with blank message field
Yours the computer illiterate moldy warp
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:03:35 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: I've E mailed you, Moldy
Message:
Just type one letter thus - X - into the message field when you do an NT. It's the FV software that will not accept a blank field. We all have to do it.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 23:05:50 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Sopranos, Clintons and Rawats
Message:
A First Family. Redefined
BY KATHLEEN ADAMS, MELISSA AUGUST, AMANDA BOWER, and added to by Susan Haupt


The schemes, the betrayals, the bawdy jokes over pasta, crass relatives, uncontrollable appetites, subpoenas, cigars and truckloads of stolen baubles. America has been transfixed by the Clinton and Rawat family foibles. But now that The Sopranos are back from hiatus, viewers may have to choose which family drama merits their attention.

THE Sopranos

THE BOSS Charismatic big man with mother issues, Tony Soprano has eluded the feds for years; will stolen plane tickets be his downfall?

SCORNED WIFE Long-suffering bottle-blond Carmela Soprano turns a blind eye to her husband's faults, mostly for material gain

DUTIFUL DAUGHTER Top student and lyrically named Meadow Soprano is wise to the family biz, can't wait to get away to college

CONSIGLIERE Savvy psychiatrist Dr. Jennifer Melfi, Tony's therapist, has problems of her own: sees a shrink, keeps a bottle in the drawer

BAD BLOOD Zaftig sister Janice schemes for dollars; fiery writer-nephew Chris trades on family name

THE Clintons

THE BOSS Charismatic big man with mother issues, Bill Clinton has eluded the feds for years; will the pardons be his downfall?

SCORNED WIFE Long-suffering bottle-blond Hillary Clinton turns a blind eye to her husband's faults, mostly for political gain

DUTIFUL DAUGHTER Top student and lyrically named Chelsea Clinton is wise to the family biz, can't wait to get back to Stanford, 3,000 mi. away

CONSIGLIERE Savvy prayer master Rev. Jesse Jackson, Clinton's moral adviser, has problems of his own: sees other women, keeps a baby on the West Coast

BAD BLOOD Orb-shaped bro-in-law Hugh schemes for dollars; sunny half bro Roger trades on family name

The Rawats

The BOSS Charismatic small man with mother issues, Prem has eluded the Feds for years? Will the Michaels both Dettmers and Donner be his downfall?

SCORNED WIFE Long suffering bottle blonde Marolyn turns a blind third eye to her husbands faults, mostly for material gain.

DUTIFUL DAUGHTER Top student and lyrically named Premlata Wadi Sue is wise to the family biz, couldn't wait to get to UCSC...but returned at Daddy's behest

CONSIGLIERE Shrink to the stars Dr. Irene Kassorla, Rawat's marraige counselor, has problems of her own after she was challenged regarding her ethics post OJ murders.

BAD BLOOD Orb shaped brother Bhole Ji schemed for dollars; sunny bro Raja Ji admits to Jim Heller that Prem won't level with him either.

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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:39:20 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: The Sopranos, Clintons and Rawats
Message:
Brilliant Susan!!!! Bravo!! Loved it.
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:00:48 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Most excellent, Susan
Message:
Always up for a laugh.

Perhaps we should refer M to Dr. Melfi, shrink to the Capos?

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Date: Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 21:38:16 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: The Sopranos, Clintons and Rawats - interesting
Message:
Susan,

Funny and interesting comparison.
(If you don't want to know about episode 2 of this year's Sopranos, read no further. If you want another interesting parallel to M's world, read on.)

In last night's episode, Tony is again in therapy dealing with an old traumatic experience because of his father's extreme methods of loan collection enforcement. So as an adult, Tony is disfunctional and in turn inflicts the same trauma on his son. The son then acts out the same symptoms...... I decided not to spill the details of the show but the parallels are there.

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Date: Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 21:42:54 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: thanks, someone cares!
Message:
Dear Postie,

I was very upset that my post ( albiet stolen in large part from Time magazine) was so unappreciated!

Thanks! I thought it was pretty funny.

I saw this weeks episode and it was GREAT! Yes, definite Shri Hans...Prem Pal...Hansi type material there. I am holding out hope for Hansi, rumor has it he may have a bit of rebel in him. But I loved this weeks Sopranos, having lived thus far with three adolescent boys they seem to have the creature down pat. great show....the therapy scenes were the best!

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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 09:23:08 (GMT)
From: janet d eye-taliano
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: whadda yoo meen, 'sumwun caih's'? of cawss
Message:
some caih's!!! mama mia! deze wimmin! if ya don' bury dem in roses an jools, they tink ya'r ignoring them!! what izzit wit choo broads, ennyhow!? yeah someone caihs! we AWL caih! we read whatchoo write, don'we? I tawt it wuz so brillyunt, i sennit ta my fadda! he's fum brooklyn, know what i mean? i figguhd he'd unnastand the yuma, right off. piece a' de ole naybahood. jus like hoooooome.

cheez, you females...no coffidence.all insekyua. ya gotta buhleev in yaself,ain' i right? eh? shooa. you wa great, baybee. quitcha worryin. dat wuz rich.

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Date: Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 21:52:47 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Susan
Subject: thanks, someone cares!
Message:
Susan,

This is my first opportunity since EPO is back online to say thanks you for your perseptive, creative and funny take.

Michael

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Date: Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 21:57:13 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: well thank you Michael
Message:
I really appreciate that ;)

Also, here is a link for anyone who wants it to the Sopranos site

Rawat's Tony Soprano but with even less self insight

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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:42:42 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: well thank you Michael
Message:
Another funny one, Susan--the idea of Rawat having even less self insight than Tony Soprano. And we worshiped this guy? That fat fuck! Bwaa ha ha!
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Date: Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 23:12:51 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Thanks Susan, I was going to post this but
Message:
FV crashed. I thoroughly enjoyed your take on all these sleazy power-mongers.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:16:54 (GMT)
From: Marianne, Kelly, hamzen
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Greetings from London
Message:
Hey there everyone! We are having a wonderful time looking at Kelly's old ashram ID, lots of old DLM/EV propaganda, and sharing stories of our lives in and out of the cult. Tomorrow night promises to be even better.
Delighted to see the posts from Michael Donner.
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 08:27:46 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Marianne, Kelly, hamzen
Subject: Wait wait wait
Message:
you've no idea of the most secret stuff I'm bringing with me. You'll be all blissed out.
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 16:07:55 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Wait wait wait
Message:
Dear JM,
How come you didn't bring secret stuff with you to my house! :(
I just made blueberry lemon pound cake and thought of you, did you ever make it. Also thought of you with the blueberries and vodka. Ummmmmmmmm. :)
When you come to Pennsylvania again you'll have to bring the 'secret stuff'! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 17:34:22 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: OK, I promise
Message:
But I'm not sure the vibe's still going to be inside !

How long does prashad's vibe stay in the stuff ?

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 01:45:12 (GMT)
From: WPC
Email: None
To: Marianne, Kelly, hamzen
Subject: Greetings from London
Message:
WE know who you are and we know where you are.....so why aren't we invited?
Love Raja mi
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:21:46 (GMT)
From: another one
Email: None
To: WPC
Subject: raja ji-first you have to defect publicly
Message:
then you'll be welcome at all our wonderfully loose and liberating events.
try it. you'll like it.
life without your brother is so nice....
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 01:53:07 (GMT)
From: Latvian Partyicipants
Email: None
To: WPC andEV Old uncle Tom C
Subject: HI Hopes Anth!
Message:
How's your crossing?
See you soon
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:29:53 (GMT)
From: Jethro and Barbara
Email: None
To: Marianne, Kelly, hamzen
Subject: To Marianne, Kelly, hamzen
Message:
Thanks for a lovely time. See you tomorrow.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:40:55 (GMT)
From: kelly
Email: None
To: Jethro and Barbara
Subject: To Marianne, Kelly, hamzen
Message:
Hi guys
Thanks for the water, I'm really feeling the thirst! See you yesterday! I'm looking forward to it! My time has become mismanaged!
love Kelly
ps Marianne and Hamzen are having an argument about the use of the word 'babes' I don't quite understand but they said I should not blow anybody any kisses....It seems a shame, but there we are....so lots of love from me anyway.
Kelly
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:53:39 (GMT)
From: Suchabanana
Email: None
To: Toejamanand
Subject: I got socks! [ashram approved 10 shillings]
Message:
Dear Toejamanand [aka Kelly]:

Do you remember how everybody left their shoes piled up at each local ashram's front door? In the beginning, I had one pair of flip-flop sandals (no shoes whatsoever; I had given away my leather boots [very p.c. thing to do]), and then someone even purloined those funky sandals one night after satsang.

Then, it took 2 weeks to be approved, but I was finally able to get a pair of generic canvas tennis shoes. Meanwhile, my feet were cut, bruised, and bleeding from walking city streets. At the time, I didn't actually care that much -- except when I occasionally stepped on a little piece of broken glass. I really had to watch my step, too!!! Talk about smelly feet... haha

Blessings to all the [ex]premies!

Peace and lentils,

da lil' swami

PS Foggy Day in London Town?

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 04:02:37 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: kelly
Subject: To Marianne, Kelly, hamzen
Message:
Hey Kelly, I've just come home fro, a great party....seeyaall later
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 23:06:16 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: kelly
Subject: To Marianne, Kelly, hamzen et al.
Message:

..I'm coming too , at the last minute , won't be staying long , got to catch the last train back .

I'm so curious to see who all you electronic entities might be in the flesh .

You'll easily recognise me : I'm the foul mouthed motherfucker who's knuckles trail the ground .

Sleep Well.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 23:22:54 (GMT)
From: Kellyanne
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: To Marianne, Kelly, hamzen et al.
Message:
Looking through a glass darkly? I see you already, you're like a mirror.I'm looking for a motive. Do you by any chance know TED farkel'and could you please tell him , we're waiting, but we're
getting tired and .....I submit

well if you insist kelly dj cuttlefish at your service babes

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 00:59:06 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Kellyanne
Subject: To Marianne, Kelly, hamzen et al.
Message:
To you all, you know I want to be there partying!!! :( Enjoy! :)
dj cuttlefish, my alley reference was in regard to ricola, I knew how you took it and have been smiling about it for days, babes. :)
I guess it will be up to you and Anth to do the 'alley' justice and think of me! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 00:26:28 (GMT)
From: The Last Swallow
Email: None
To: Kellyanne
Subject: To Marianne, Kelly, hamzen et al.
Message:
Summer's over. And so is Latvian night warm up. We're chilling out out now.
Stay cool
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:07:14 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: To Marianne with love from San Francisco
Message:
Hi FH, give those lovely latvians bigs hugs for me, especially Anth, Hamzen, Kelly, John Brauns and any others who don't mind hugs from fat fags.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:16:09 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Jackson provides glimpse of his groups' finances
Message:
In today’s Boston Globe: Jackson provides glimpse of his groups' finances

Good article about the reverend this morning. He has given a look at his finances, but he does not discuss the finances of the tax-free Church over which he presides. There is a way to show what one makes through organizations that are above board, whilst keeping a lid on the 3 card Monty table one runs under the guise of a church. Sound familiar?? CNN ran a small clip this morning of the Reverend ranting about the conservative right wing conspiracy after him. The holy become holier when backed into a corner, like rats. Now who was it that said “If you win the rat race, you’re still a rat”?

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:23:27 (GMT)
From: Tell Man
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Advise
Message:
Did you take or consider my advise?
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:33:37 (GMT)
From: Maharaji
Email: www.maharaji.org
To: Everyone
Subject: April Fools Day in March
Message:
Hi you guys,so you got me,yes I admit I had you on,I didn't post
that previous message that caused so much confusion,yes you
wanna hear it? yes I'm a no good bad asskicking mofugga, you're
happy now? well that last bit was accomplished by one of my most
advanced students,namely my UK representative: the supremely
holy Saint Aleister Crowley whom I just recently have resurrected
from the dead... ya know poor ol'uncle Al had to undergo some
strenuous training in the xuahua hell for a couple a years ,but
now he's back to give you guys HELL..just kiddin'...
ya know Al has now mastered the Art of transforming his physical
form so that it looks exaxtly like ME!! that's great,I don't have
to do that exhausting touring job no more,Al time travels in my
physical body ,and I can lay back and take a nap or pursue one
of my favorite sports OM SHIVA SHANKARA CHILLUM BAM BAMBOULEE
yes I'm mighty proud that most of my premies found out that I
was NOT the author of that address,but uncle Al's style was a
good imitation.. and oh yes the CAPITALIZATION ,right that's
not my style either,Al and me borrowed that one from our brother
in arms the Naitabu Satguru from the Fijis Bubba Free John aka
Shri Avatar Samraj alias JOHNNY B. GOODE..
my blessings to you all,get high,PLEASE it's so lonely UP
HERE,just a few avatars and buddhas hanging out here, we need
some more enlightened females! This call goes out to JANET
we'll soon move you up here,FOR GODS SAKE : SMILE or at least
give us some positive vibes.....there's a lady who thinks all
that glitters is gold and she's buying a STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:45:03 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Maharaji
Subject: Try smoking parsley , it'll fuck up
Message:

your lungs , but so what , you've got to die of something , & at least your head will be clear when you go .

Sorry , that's the best I can do on the positive vibe front.

Lay off Janet.

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:28:11 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Maharaji
Subject: move me up WHERE? i go where i choose,sumo boy
Message:
wanna have a belly bounce-off contest? i'll spring you outta the ring into next year. i learned all i Know from watching YOU,'DAD'....
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:05:28 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Sumo Boy??? Excellent....LOL.........nt
Message:
mm
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:29:50 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Michael Donner post from way below
Message:
I have taken the liberty of reposting Michael Donner's post from the bottom of the thread with Dettmers and co on MJ's sex-life etc. way below:

Michael Donner said:

'Just to chip in here a little. I completely support all that Michael dettmers has posted, the tone and substance for sure.

the marital difficulties go back further then remembered however. there was something going on in 1983 with marolyn and her 'driver/escort' in miami in 1983 that had us scratching our heads. i was asked by m to drive the motor home back from malibu with this fellow to miami in 1983. the motor home needed to get back to miami for the family use on one hand and things had become quite sensitive with the relationship between this fellow and marolyn during the malibu stay. m was upset and jealous. he asked me to drive with this guy to miami to both 'get information' and give satsang to him. little of either happened. i did not like the role assigned to me to 'get information' and besides the guy didn/t trust me knowing that m had assigned me to go with him. he talked on the cell phone out of ear shot a few times with marolyn while on that trip. the affair, whatever its nature, continued in miami and things continued to be intense around the home fires 1983 84.

also while at decca once m asked me about a premie woman he was attracted to. had me arrange for me to get her in a place where he would be passing by to be able to give her darshan as well as check her out closer up. m occasionally asked me about her during 82-84 time frame. i do not know if anything came of it.

one long time premie/resdident servant woman has horrible memories of sex with m. feeling very used after the one time quickie when he would not speak to her nor make eye contact. not sure the time frame, michael remembers 1986 range...seems to me it was earlier. but....

i have no personal knowledge of any other affairs by either except vivid memories of monica lewis in miami 82-84 (i left in 84, summer). she lived in the same house as i and was there without portfolio..it often seemed to many of us that marolyn was even setting her up with m. clearly there was something between m and monica then and marolyn was completely aware...and didn't use her power to get rid of her. the quess of many of us then was that marolyn was involved with this fellow and wanted m to find someone too. maybe the other way round.

mainly, this sort of thing was felt to be (by me and others at the res. at the time) to be a huge distraction from the efforts to spread knowledge. like the kinky games of the rich and famous. certainly continued to turn me off towards the beginning of 84. '

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:09:43 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Michael Donner
Subject: Welcome aboard!!!
Message:
Michael,

Just checked in and am so glad to see that you have joined the conversation. I know you have much to contribute that will benefit us all.

Michael

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:00:44 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Michael Donner
Subject: To Michael Donner and Everyone
Message:
Thanks, Disculta for bringing this post up to the top. I would have missed it completely.

To Michael Donner, I want to express my appreciation for your courage in posting what you experienced with Maharaji and Marolyn. I, too, believe, that because Marolyn is an adult, that she does bear responsibility for what happens in that cult. She certainly benefits from it financially....

Most of all, I want you to know that I have never posted as an alias, except when joking about something to give us some comic relief. The process of extracting oneself from a personality cult is difficult. To have someone like you and Michael Dettmers talk to us about first hand information is vital. It is the essence of that first hand information that dispells all of our speculation or at least verifies our gossip.

Thank you for coming out here. It's a unique message board, don't you think? It helps us to heal from the emotional and spiritual damage done by Maharaji, as well as afford us the opportunity to express to eachother things we never dared to say while we were so entrenched within Maharaji's cult.

The key word here is cult. Any information and insights you provide will be most appreciated by me and so many others here.

Thanks again for your appearance....

Warm regards,
Cynthia Gracie

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:29:27 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Michael Donner post from way below
Message:
had me arrange for me to get her in a place where he would be passing by to be able to give her darshan as well as check her out closer up.

I'm sorry. I just had to laugh when I read this. What a move! I wish I could do that!

Hahaha!

mainly, this sort of thing was felt to be (by me and others at the res. at the time) to be a huge distraction from the efforts to spread knowledge. like the kinky games of the rich and famous.

No, just an abuse of power by people who have no right having it.

This stuff is great. Talk about cutting people down to size. I wonder what CD and Mel Bourne and all the others think of this. How long can you bury your head in the sand? How many times can you call the same story hearsay? In a way, I feel sorry for premies holding out. When, all your life, you've based your reason for living on faith in one particular person, it kinda hurts when you see that faith was misplaced. But hey, there isn't an ex here who didn't go through it, themselves. You get over it soon enough.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:37:42 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Hey, Michael Donner, you showed up!!!
Message:
It seems that Maharaji had quite a few Michael's around.

Michael Donner, we've been waiting. Thanks for showing up! Your input here is very welcomed.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:56:04 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: I've got something to apologize for a bit, Mike
Message:
Hi Mike,

Jim Heller here. My girlfriend, Laurie, and I really enjoyed the evening we spent with you and Gary a couple of summers ago. Loved your set up out there as well. Beautiful place.

I'm grateful that you've chosen to speak up now. You can already see what a difference a Mike makes. I, too, hope you'll stick around to debrief with the rest of us (ad infinitum??). And I know that, if you do, you'll get a lot from the process yourself. Even if you think, now, that you've got the whole picture due to your unique vantage point back then, you'll find, as I'm sure you already expect, all sorts of missing bits in the puzzle here. Plus, you'll find that it helps you come to terms with all this shit just talking about it. I'm sure the other Mike (what's his last name? I forget.) has told you that he's benefitted from contributing here.

But I need to apologize to you. I think that I posted a couple of reports of our meeting that were less than fully respectful or complimentary of you. You might have read those. Without belabouring the point, I think that I was just venting my frustration that no former PAMs were willing to say dick about Maharaji. Sure, you and Gary were candid with Laurie and me but I so much wanted you guys to 'tell the world'. You know, I think I explained how I felt at dinner that night. Well, guess what? That's how I felt.

Anyway, I'm really glad to see you here. Laurie and I enjoyed our evening with you guys. Maybe we'll see you again sometime. By the way, how's Gary?

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:11:10 (GMT)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I've got something to apologize for a bit, Mike
Message:
thanks for your comments jim, i was put off to be honest and consequently decided not to post back then in part because of it.
some push me pull me going on...like encouraging PAMs to post while you others had not very flattering stuff to say...so the effect was...

anyways here i am now...little interest in clarifying all the mistatements i read in the archieves really.

concerns me some that folks repeat rumours as fact and create obvious confusion...in the name of sharing clarity to help current cult members out of cult. oh well.

also have been reluctant to join because of the alais thing. i dont get that at all....especially in lite of the goal but then i am not into computers much at all, so maybe its a computer thing.
hard to imagine there should be any fear about using our own names really and seems it would add credibility.

probably this comment has been made by others often and the conversation already had...just to say that it surely added to my hesitation.

regards michael....ps gary is quite well, changing jobs and stressed out a bit now due to leaving one and creating another..but in a good place...conscious and caring person that i respect greatly.

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 03:11:09 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: More seriously
Message:
Mike,

You're right that anonymity is a bit funny, not to mention a somewhat discomforting symbolic concession to the House of Rawat. It comes up as an issue from time to time, often when new posters, like yourself, comment on it. I don't know. Many have advanced various reasons for being anonymous. There's the divorced ex who doesn't want to raise his ....er, premie ex's ire. There's the wavering ex who isn't sure just how much he wants to say about the Perfect Hamster (this breed's rare but it wasn't a couple of years ago). There's the recent ex who doesn't want to alienate ever last friend he's got en masse. And then there are the many, it seems, who simply think it's bad form to do anything on the net under their real name.

I don't like any of those excuses but then that's just me. I do know that everyone I can think of who's posted under their own name, either initially or after posting under an alias for some time, has never regretted 'coming out' as it were. Frankly, I think that anyone who's ever feared cult reprisal has to reconsider that concern the more others, high-profile or not, post out in the open like you and Mike. Hey, can you imagine the ludicrousness of either of you posting behind a mask? What kind of credibility could you ever have like that? Well, that's the difference. You guys have big time eye-witness stuff; most of us don't. Anyway, it all works somehow.

As for some of the criticisms levied at former PAMs here, well, yes, I and many are guilty of same. But, like I told you, I've always thought there was like a moral obligation of sorts for people in the know to share that knowledge with others who are obviously still trapped in the information-deprived world fo this cult. Dettmers has proven that point in spades. For all the argument, rhetoric, passionate pleading and objectively overwhelming circumstantial case we otherwise have, all of it pales in comparison to one story like Mike's account of Maharaji's driving 'mishap' in India. I'm sure you understand.

So that was the problem. Now there've been many opinions on this. Some thought it wrong to bug exPAMs, some didn't. But, well, that was the thinking anyway.

Finally, you mention rumours and by rumours I take it you mean false ones. Hey, Mike, we're just trying to put together the true picture. If we get some junk data here or there, what can we do? I guess it's just one more reason that people like you make a difference.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:14:02 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Aliases? No way! Who? Who's using an alias??
Message:
Mike,

What you have to understand is that there are legions and legions of ex premies so embarrassed by their cult involvement that they've moved all over the globe, taken on new identities and even gone under the knife a bit. Way, for example, changed his name twent years ago. He's a city planner in Tulsa and proud of it. Somewhere in the archives you'll find a post of his where he explains that, while it was a little tough at first on his kids, No and Goa, his family got used to it all.

As far as I can tell, 'Nigel' is the only one who won't come clean about who he is. Apparently he's a student somewhere and, as he recently disclosed to me in private email, he's afraid of using his real name because there's some other student in Scotland (or wherever he is) trying to slap a sexual harrassment lawsuit on him or something. I promised 'Nigel' that this wouldn't go any further so I'll trust that you and anyone else reading this respects 'Nigel's' confidence appropriately.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:43:10 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm still pissed at my parents for naming me ...
Message:
... Postie. I mean, what a weird name. Like some bizarre breakfast cereal or mail carrier or fence installer. At least they didn't name me SatGanga!
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:08:28 (GMT)
From: Thelma
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: I'm still pissed at my parents for naming me ...
Message:
Thelma when it was obvious I had balls.
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:16:50 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Thelma
Subject: There's a book with your name on it, Thelma
Message:
Maybe you've read it -- The Wasp Factory.
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:19:24 (GMT)
From: Thelma
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: There's a book with your name on it, Thelma
Message:
So keep me hanging in suspense won't you. What's it all about?
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:58:12 (GMT)
From: Thelma
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, I hope that wasn't a back-handed compliment
Message:
with a sting in it's tale.

''The Wasp Factory'' is a novel about ''Frank Cauldhame, (is) a weird teenager who lives on a tiny island connected to mainland Scotland by a bridge. He maintains grisly Sacrifice Poles to serve as his early warning system and deterrent against anyone who might invade his territory.''

Well, nothing will insult me after being called a hydra-headed monster.

Thelma, the self-made one woman early warning system.

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:53:37 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Thelma
Subject: The Wasp Factory
Message:
Here's one review from Amazon. This is one weird book that you must read to see the connection. It's short and entertaining. Try it. It's like a mango.


'I had been making the rounds of the Sacrifice Poles the day we heard my brother had escaped. I already knew something was going to happen; the Factory told me.'
Those lines begin one of the most infamous of contemporary Scottish novels. The narrator, Frank Cauldhame, is a weird teenager who lives on a tiny island connected to mainland Scotland by a bridge. He maintains grisly Sacrifice Poles to serve as his early warning system and deterrent against anyone who might invade his territory.

Few novelists have ever burst onto the literary scene with as much controversy as Iain Banks in 1984. The Wasp Factory was reviled by many reviewers on account of its violence and sadism, but applauded by others as a new and Scottish voice--that is, a departure from the English literary tradition. The controversy is a bit puzzling in retrospect, because there is little to object to in this novel, if you're familiar with genre horror.

The Wasp Factory is distinguished by an authentically felt and deftly written first-person style, delicious dark humor, a sense of the surreal, and a serious examination of the psyche of a childhood psychopath. Most readers will find that they sympathize with and even like Frank, despite his three murders (each of which is hilarious in an Edward Gorey fashion). It's a classic of contemporary horror. --Fiona Webster

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 09:35:11 (GMT)
From: Thelma the Fat Fag
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, call me thick but I still don't get it
Message:
I told you you were a zen master. You have thrown more than one koan at me before. No, I'm slow on the uptake sometimes. What's the significance? Did you read it? Sounds dumb but then I haven't read fiction in 15 years.
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 03:01:56 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The Wasp Factory - oops, I got called away
Message:
for a surprise pre-dinner rush and when you didn't answer I looked it up. I would love to know what made you read it and if you read his other novels. I lived in Scotland long enough to know that I had to watch every word that I said. Every Glaswegian was a walking sarcastic sacrifice pole.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:39:48 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The scary part
Message:
One time, not too long ago, I actually answered the phone at work as 'Way.'
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:16:06 (GMT)
From: Mark A
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: No Way !
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 05:17:14 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Mark A
Subject: actually he has a lot of kids besides no and goa..
Message:
theres the independent one, MY way, and No, the willfull one, has an officious twin named Yes.
the racecar driver is named Speed Way, the long distance trucker named Hi, the bicyclist is named By, and his son that ran away to go hitchiking around california is called Free.
he has a brother, a stock broker on the east coast known as Thru, and a siser in Denver who's a city planner known as Breeze. Breeze has a daughter in Miami named Cause who's a political activist at college there. She stays on miami beach and commutes.
Cause is sharing a place with her cousin, a zen type who prefers to sign himself Tao.Cause also has a younger brother, who's a gothic teen named Sub, who's into the underground scene, and an older half brother who's a ski bum named Nor. He lives in Europe.

then theres the side of the family everyone shudders to mention. Theres the one in prison who killed a man while at sea, Gang..and that one hopelessly on life support from that car accident head-on, while trying to get on the toll road, poor Wrong...

yep, Way's got quite a clan of kith and kin, there.
Oh--and steer clear of Reverend The. You'll never get rid of him once, he gets your ear.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:53:34 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: While all that was going on in '83-'84 in Miami,
Message:
I was living down there at the time. There was a popular story going around the premie community I remember well, that you and Maharaji were walking around one day and you were ogling some pretty women and Maharaji asked: 'Why are you looking at them? They are all looking for me anyway!' Was it one of those satsang tales to promote the single-focus on him or did it ever really happen? Sounds like it was the other way around, that he was checking out the ladies...

Whenever you have a minute,

Sandy

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:39:41 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Welcome Mike, yes the ''alias thing'' gets me too
Message:
You said: ''...also have been reluctant to join because of the alias thing. I dont get that at all....especially in lite of the goal but then i am not into computers much at all, so maybe its a computer thing. hard to imagine there should be any fear about using our own names really and seems it would add credibility.
probably this comment has been made by others often and the conversation already had...just to say that it surely added to my hesitation.''

Amen. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Anonymity does detract from the credibility of the forum and there is NO need for it other than some very special circumstances involving ongoing legal procedures and then these need to be explained.

And yes, the tendency to jump at inflated rumors and exaggerated gossip is disturbing. Hopefully you will help us to stick to the facts and add a measure of decency and sensibilty. I know you will probably not recall who I am but I remember you and I personally look forward to your contributions.

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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 17:17:10 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: I think we need flexibility
Message:
Pat, I'm not sure what you mean.

What 'inflated rumors' and 'exaggerated gossip' are you talking about? In the years, off and on, I have been reading the forum, I'm surprised at how little of that there has been. Besides, the 'truth' as stated by people who were actually there, is a lot more incredible than the supposed 'rumors'. By the way, most of what was stated as 'rumors' have turned out to be true, again, based on statements from people who actually observed the incidents.

And as I said above, the Maharaji cult is based on fear, and you can't expect that to go away immediately. As proof of this, notice that almost 100% of the PWKs who show up here are ANONYMOUS, and that's where we have all come from.

And by the way, didn't you start out being anonymous?

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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 18:39:33 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: we need flexibility, Joe - excited utterances
Message:
Oh, I'm very flexible, Joe. But also very opinionated. I stae my opiion. You state yours and I am flexible enough to know when I'm wrong and also when we have to agree to disagree.

I tolerate anonymice for the very reasons that you stated - fear. I had it too but it is not a good thing to nurture.

As for the rumors and gossip. I think a better term would be the legal phrase, ''excited utterances'' The forum has a lot less ''excited utterances'' than it had as little as a year ago or even three months ago.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:41:56 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: dermot@mullan.net
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Welcome Mike, yes the ''alias thing'' gets me too
Message:
Well you have a point (maybe).....though Postie, Drek, Larkin et al seem to be doing a good job.

Anyway Ive already laboured the point when I posted once or twice as Ex-Altarboy .....but here I am in the big bright world ....Dermot Mullan Ex-Premie .....white pages today....'journey' who knows when (when Ive got the time , energy and inspiration haha)

Hi Everyone.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:05:24 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: The majority of posters are not anonymice and
Message:
most of the anonymice have emailed me to tell me who they are and I hope they extend that courtesy to other newcomers too. I just wish there were no perceived reasons for anonymity but I respect their decisions and most have giving me valid reasons.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:28:20 (GMT)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: sandy
Subject: story circulating
Message:
hi sandy...i have no memory of that story with m nor remember hearing the satsang story about it...doesn/t quite sound like something that would have been shared between m and i....i was always careful not to oggle around him (smile). michael
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:26:41 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: the reasons are endless
Message:
I wonder about some of them. There's a lot of posturing and I find it highly annoying. The one reason I respect the most is concern for safety for ones self and family
but hey I'm a risk taker, why I posted my recent picture just now, below, in the larkin roll-call thread. But make no mistake, although there is a resemblence I am NOT related to the Rawats.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:31:34 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Synchronicity, Selene
Message:
I just told Charles that I will post my pic too. Let me go and have a look at you.
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 00:28:13 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: oops regarding that picture etc.
Message:
I hope you know my irreverence was not at your expense but somehow I do know that you ,if not all, can 'get' my jokes.
I really have posted recent pics here and on AG and then gotten lectures about being more careful blah blah.

so confused, so little time

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:10:41 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: regarding that picture - I thought you looked thin
Message:
Hey, risk-taker, wait till you see mine.
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 05:54:31 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: looking thin - it's the good haircut :)
Message:
I'm glad you understood the joke.
Oh wait maybe you are talking about the real pic?

Thanks Pat.

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:14:58 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I really posted mine under Roll Call
Message:
What I don't understand is why you are so hairless. Did you rip it out by the roots or were you born that way? You're such a risk-taking Aquarius.
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:27:10 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: ok I know what you are up to
Message:
I'll pull up a pic and post later. maybe. But you will have to go to THAT forum to see it.

As for the hair, I have a very good esthetologist, she tortures me on a routine basis with a painful needle.

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:29:58 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I don't know what you are up to - THAT forum?
Message:
You mean AG?
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:34:01 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: yeah that forum. I need to crop the pic I have
Message:
The only digitized one i have is when I put my leg up on my desk and someone found it sexy so I have to Photoshop amputate the leg so I can save my pristine reputation. I'll get around to it.
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:41:09 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Oh go on show a bit of leg!
Message:
Well I'll just have to be patient.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:53:01 (GMT)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: my letter to m
Message:
This is a letter that i wrote to m in 1987. I copied it to about 50 others at the time, ex instructors, then current instructors, mainly my cirlce of 'friends and those i wanted to influence at the time. so...fyi

Dec. 19, 1987

Dear Maharaji,

This is a hard letter to write. We have 'shared' so much over the many years together. I have been faithful to you and 'your'work through many ups and downs. I imagine that you will take what is written here as a betrayal, as I have seen you react that way so many times in the past with others. In taking this that way however, you will miss what i am saying and what is in my heart.

I do not write as a devotee. There was a time when that is all that I wanted and tried to be. I see now that devotion to another human being is destructive to me and to you. i write instead as a simple human to another with a deep and growing experience of life due in part to the practice of meditation and the opportunities that the work of spreading knowledge has provided me. That part of me that was a devotee needed a guru and you were it. I see now that that codependent relationship is unhealthy and it is time to move from that to some more mature relationship, if that is possible.

As things have changed and evolved over these past 15 years, I've seen you try to deal with some of the CONTRADICTIONS as they became more obvious. Yet, these contradictions (go inside and know yourself/trust only in me, etc) continue and you...who can do something about it choose not to. Hence, I am no longer able to continue in 'service to you'.

You speak of feeling valuable and capable yet the set up of serving you, not doing this work TOGETHER makes that impossible...implicitly impossible. You want me (us) to do it 'for you', at 'your command'. I guess you mean then 'valuable and capable' within the context of knowing my place, staying in my place at your feet, not at your side.

You view Knowledge as if it were yours. Ownership of a technology so to speak. You assume the sole responsibility of spreading Knowledge as if you owned it. You have often spoke to us about 'your work', 'your mission'; never us, ours etc. Mutual respect has been lacking from the beginning. I use to accept that as my calling (good fortune even) to be a devotee.
This type of relationship make feeling of 'valuable and capable' impossible.

For awhile it seemed that you were moving away from these attitudes but I see that, fundamentally, you are not. This is a very heavy load for you to carry. You say that you do not want us to put you on a pedestal but you yourself will not come down from it. I have at times seen your dedication to spreading Knowledge but you seem dependent upon some role that was given to you when you were very young...and inappropriately given no doubt. This role, the roles we have both played..the matching book ends of devotee/guru is not healthy for you and the world does not need another personality cult, no matter how benevolent.

These must seem like strong words, especially when filtered through the old view of devotee/master. I have wanted many many times to have an honest and open conversation but fear has always stopped me. That has been part my own lack of courage, but you have created a system of fear that has kept us all in box for far too long. I am still feeling fear as i write this, but mostly fear that you will simply blow this off and discount the love that we once shared.

Recently, when we shock hands at your birthday party, it was quite significant for me. I came around a corner and there you were. I had not seen you for some time, and when our eyes met I felt joy and I know you did too. spontaneously, I offered you my hand (married and living in Oregon, that is what we do first with old dear friends...perhaps before an embrace). You took it but it was the 'cold fish' hand shake and you immediately porceeded to joke about it...'gotta wash my hand now...what if everyone wanted to shake my hand', etc. I was hurt and disappointed because my simple spontaneous jesture could not be accepted and reciprocated (I was not accepted).

Upon reflection, I should not have been surprised. Such a reaction I have seen countless times and it flows from who you see yourself as and how you perceive others in relationship to that view. I stongly believe that perceptions such as that must change if you ever hope to be successful in actually spreading Knowledge to more then a few...really to only those 'devotees' looking for a place for their devotion.

Even now, I hope that perhaps one day you might want to know why so many of us (caring, intelligent, dynamic people) have chosen recently to leave. Could be fun even, a working retreat...brainstorming together to identify the blocks that exist within ourselves that are keeping us from doing this important work TOGETHER.

More personally, I hope you can find a way to get healthy and to respect your bodily temple.

In at least memory of love,

Michael Donner

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 03:06:23 (GMT)
From: bill burke
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: And to think I wanted to club you with a baragon.
Message:
When Jim talked about how you and whomever else you live with were not interested helping us that needed help leaving the cult........

Now I see that you were one of the very few that made an effort
to share your PAM(person around m) realizations with 50 others.

Micheal Dettmers has done many people a world of good by taking the time to share his views.
For many lifers, who only get the distant programming from m,
it is almost impossible for them to make the break without some insider info which shows a different side of m.

If you would elaborate on some of m's behaviours that you saw for the benefit of many that lurk here and others that will read your comments in the future.
As a long term insider you have a 'compassion' opportunity here.
His cult is in many countries and they have little defense against his claims to be the master of life and god incarnate.
Your honesty and details will be a great assist to many and will help others not have such a long struggle with leaving like I had.

Since you are someone with direct exposure to him, your comments will be made readily available on this website for those trying to get free. Please see your 'compassion' opportunity.

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 01:14:12 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: my letter to m, Thank you Michael
Message:
Dear Michael,
Thank you for posting and for coming forth as a significant PAM. It is this kind of insider view point that clearly edifies the position that so many of us have now taken who regularly post on this site.

It has been many years since you and I first met and I assisted you with your car problems enroute to satsang that night in Portland 28 years ago, and it has been a wild, confusing ride for me for a long, long time. We arrived at the same place at one point decades ago and it now appears as if we have come full circle.

I just got here myself and broke free about a month ago and I am so glad to see guys like you and Dettmers courageously offering your valuable experiences and insights which empower so many of us in our commitment to move on and reclaim our own lives back from the cult that isn't a cult.

It is always a difficult time in the first stages of letting go, doubts, fears, feelings of betrayal and abandonment however small still pang on occasion waiting to rear up. Hearing from you directly about what you went through as close as you were to maharaji, makes it obvious that I have made the right decision. There is a lot of strength and truth to be derived from your story.

Thank you for posting, I hope that you continue to do so and that we hear more from you.

Best Regards, your brother in recovery
Brian Smith

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:31:53 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Thank you Michael, Ditto. nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 23:15:15 (GMT)
From: Been There
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Shaking hands
Message:
Michael, you may not know this: I believe it was sometime after your exit that M. was in Taiwan and after a general program shook the hands of every premie who wanted to shake hands with him. It was videotaped and has been shown many times (in slow motion). It happened spontaneously and went on and on. (It wasn't a darshan line -- he stood at the edge of the stage and reached down and took people's hands as they reached up.

I don't know if anything like that has happened since, except maybe in Africa.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:34:10 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: sylviecyn@yahoo.com
To: michael donner
Subject: To: Michael Donner
Message:
Dear Michael,

Many thanks for your courage to post here. Your letter to Maharaji was very sincere. Unfortunately, he isn't.

I don't think we've ever met, but you were one person who I thought of as sincere and I always loved your sense of humor.

I send you my best wishes and hope you are well. I hope you continue to share your experiences--you've got to know people here will be asking you questions. You were, after all, a ''famous premie.'' :-)))

Best to you,
Cynthia Gracie

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:56:04 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: thank you Michael Donner
Message:
I am very heartened that you have made the choice to post here. Your voice will add much to the picture I hope. I think by telling the truth, in public, about the cult we honor the love, idealism, and sincerity we all had while we were there. Telling the truth is very healing, for those who tell it as well as those who learn it.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:51:47 (GMT)
From: Francesca Reitano
Email: notinherent@yahoo.com
To: michael donner
Subject: Hits the nail on the head
Message:
Michael,

Thanks for posting this. I am going to print it up and give it to my hubby, who received K from you. He left the cult before I did because he did not have a devotee relationship with M. It was a harder and more gradual process for me.

Your words express some of the things I've felt -- the codependent and unhealthy relationship of master/guru and devotee. Strong aversion to being involved in such a relationship has welled up in me again, and is what started me on the process of backing out of my deep involvement in Tibetan Buddhism, a process that has been ongoing over the past two years. I thought I could gloss over the guru part of that religion, but it is not possible unless I maintain the proper distance. What I have learned in the past 9 years is way more valuable than anything I learned with K, but like my experience with K, I will assimilate it into my own relationship with the universe. In other words, take back the power. I cannot learn everything I need to know on my own, but I can certainly study with many teachers, and make sure that they treat their students as fellow human beings, and that they are not on pedestals or thrones.

This forum has been a valuable part of the process of deprogramming myself. By not totally facing what I had done with M, and rejecting the parts of it that were, frankly sick, and owning what I'd learned, I was walking away from the value of experience.

It's good to have your voice on Forum V.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:58:45 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: Francesca Reitano
Subject: Michael, I am not anonymous and here's my email
Message:
Charles S is my partner of 19 years and Francesca is my friend of 20 years. None of us are anonymice.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:47:25 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Thanks Michael for posting that letter
Message:
In the past ten years I have written many like it until I eventually realized that Rev Rawat really did not understand either because he is stupid or because he is basically immoral and criminally egotistical.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:29:16 (GMT)
From: Charles S.
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Thank you for sharing that! Welcome to forum V nt
Message:
l
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:20:10 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: my letter to m
Message:
Thank you Michael. I've been reading for a while, I have recently left the 'cult' and I am still feeling all the pain of exiting. Luckyly I have a wonderful therapist. I can't believe how programmed I've been. I met you, I think in Miami when Jeanny was your secretary.
It is a relief to read some of the posts in this forum because I don't feel so alone and it reminds me I am not insane.
I appreciate the honesty. It is not an easy road and it is the road to recovery.
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Date: Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 21:19:57 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Mercedes
Subject: Welcome Mercedes
Message:
I just noticed you are a new poster and wanted to welcome you. Please post as much as you like. I've started posting here a few months back after years of lurking.

Postie

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:14:57 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: my letter to m
Message:
Thanks for sharing. This was a very good letter. It reminds me of my exit letter, in its anxiety about him not honoring my sincerity and love in what I was trying to say to him. What I was trying to say would, I felt, have really, really helped him and his work. And what you said in this letter could have been even more incredibly helpful to him as you were his friend. Sorry he couldn't listen.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:26:43 (GMT)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: my letter to m
Message:
hi not really sure how this posting stuff works, replies,timing etc. i really did not have any illusion that my letter might have some impact...more written for myself at the time...so thing about making a good faith effort. it was more important to me back then to send a copy to various people, freinds who had left around the time i did and some of the instructors who were still involved with whom i wanted to share my perspective.

i certainly had no further illusions after i heard that m referred to my letter during an instructor conference in the following months in very belittling terms. nor was i surprised that he belittled it publicly with those particular folks as he needed to maintain control..and to trash me to them was significant as i was fairly well liked by most of the instructors at that time and not just another idiot...though that is how m protrayed me in reference to my letter.

naturally i did not hear then nor ever since from m. i became just another disappointment for him, another betrayal

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 09:13:13 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Micheal...the FU video?
Message:
you said'i certainly had no further illusions after i heard that m referred to my letter during an instructor conference in the following months in very belittling terms'

Were you referring to that instructors' program(in Penang?) where he forced the instructor's to make the 'fuck you' video?

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:31:06 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: my letter to m
Message:
I really thought he was going to read my letter and be somehow affected by it (it referred to my involvement in trying to prevent premie suicides, as I recounted somewhere below). I guess you knew him better and didn't expect so much.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:10:12 (GMT)
From: bobby
Email: bobby2@mindspring.com
To: michael donner
Subject: excellent!.... thank you michael (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:29:34 (GMT)
From: kev
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: thanks michael
Message:
Thank you for posting your letter michael. I only wish I could be so clear about how I feel right now. I too have not long left and all I can feel at the moment is anger towards m. But by reading this forum I can see I am not alone in by feelings. Thank you and a big thank you to everyone else on this forum who is helping me through my anger.

Love kev.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:07:34 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: kev
Subject: kev, it helped me to write some really angry stuff
Message:
about the Bratguru and get it out of my system. I don't hate the man but it was a lot of fun and very liberating to cut him down to size and see him for what he is - just another greedy televangelist huckster and conman who believes his own scam.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:50:05 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: I agree, Pat Conlon re: writing M
Message:
After reading Mike Donner's letter to M it occurred to me that I'd never really left M, but basically walked away and 'got on with my life'. After writing my journal for myself, it brought up a lot of old emotions, thoughts and questions. Thus I began posting here some months back. I will take Donner's example to heart and write M a letter.

Postie - anonymous and OK with that for now

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 20:55:59 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Why write him a letter
Message:
After thinking about it and discuss it with my therapist I realised that I don't have to write him any letter, I don't have to give him any more of my power and besides I doubt he reads them or cares.
Before I used to write to him a lot, thanking, complainint etc.
Now I don't have to and I don't want to. He is out of my life.
No more screwing around with me.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:07:48 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Mercedes
Subject: I decided not to write him a letter of resignation
Message:
because it might give him new ideas on spin-control and revisionism. Give him enough rope to hang himself is my new motto.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:21:42 (GMT)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: faqianand (sp?), detroit pie
Message:
I have seen some of what has been posted on the site re this situation. I was asked by m (at bob mishler's suggestion) to fly to detroit and 'get faquianand out of the country'.
bob arranged for me to see m before i left to 'do pranam' at which point m told me the above quote as well as expressed his displeasure with the mahatmas invloved.

There were (as I remember) probably 4 mahatmas involved in the planning and discussion of revenge on pat h. after the pie incident. Rajaswar was one and the other names i do not remember.

from the culture in india is was completely 'normal' to physically attack anyone who would dare touch the guru. revenge was a matter of honor among the mahatmas and those premies such as fletcher under their sway.

hence, whereas m seemed very upset on one hand he was quite understanding on the other, knowing the culture he brought them from.

Seems like there were two mahatmas that i drove from detroit to chicago to put them on a plane to india. chicago-london-india.
(not canada as has been suggested elsewhere inaccurately).

obviously, my head space at the time was to obey the directions i was given as a reasonable (at the time) road to follow resulting from the incident.

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Date: Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 22:04:16 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Fakiranand
Message:
Hi Michael,

Thanks for that information. I was in the Chicago ashram when Fakiranand arrived from Detroit after the pie incident. I was just a lowly premie and wasn't in on the information, but I recall Fakiranand pacing in a room and wanting to speak to Maharaji, who I guess refused to come to the phone, or just wouldn't talk to him, and Fakiranand looked and acted completely freaked out.

I recall that Fakiranand arrived as Mahatma Fakiranand and was hustled to the airport as 'Mr. Fakir,' or at least that was what I was told. It was a very weird event to watch.

I remember there were rumors of some kind of an armed gang coming from Detroit and storming the ashram, or other such stories. Instead of the mild-mannered prankster that Pat Halley was, he was portrayed as some kind of a gang leader, part of some violent Detroit underground group.

I know what you are saying about the cultural of attacking somebody who attacks the Guru. But I don't think it was just a cultural thing coming from India. There were lots of American premies who felt justice had been done when Pat Haley was attacked. They might not have done it themselves, although I think there are some who might have, but there certainly was a kind of understanding of what was done, believing as we did, at least most of us did, that Maharaji was the incarnation of God on Earth and being hit with a pie was outrageous.

By the way, if you have seen the Lord of the Universe Video (available through Amazon), that was done in 1974, Pat Halley is interviewed, and they actually show Maharaji getting hit with a pie, which really is funny. Another interview is of Fats Goldstein, who, while doing security at Millennium, said that if he had been there, he would have slit Pat's throat 'on the spot' when asked about this, on camera. Maybe Fats wouldn't have done that, but the sentiment was certainly there.

Joe Whalen

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:15:00 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: 'somethings going on inside LA'...
Message:
Michael-

After reading your posts, I was reminded of the old Jiva song, 'Somethings going on inside LA'. At least I think that was the name of the song.

Seriously, I have this feeling that something very profound is starting to happen this year with this whole issue of M and his past. I think that something just has to happen, and will. Too much bad stuff, and sometimes good stuff, went down in this whole thing for too long, and affected too many people in powerful ways, for some sort of justice,retribution,reconciliation, whatever you want to call it, to not happen.
In simpler terms, what goes around, comes around.
Or, what you sow, you shall reap.
Whatever....

Another quote:
The time is coming, very soon, for the whole world to know who guru maharaj ji is....

I think that time is coming soon, and will prove to be a blessing for all, although it will be in a far different context than M or any of us ever realized.

PAMS who post, like you and Michael Dettmers, are giving invaluable insight,performing a service, and are providing a real opportunity for people to see into what was really going on all those years behind the devotion...it helps the sorting out/healing/growing up process tremendously.

Most of us 'rank and file' premies never had a clue about any of this stuff. There sometimes is incredible anger about all of this, as we realize just how much we gave and believed, and how much we were used and conned. It is empowering to go through this, and you guys are helping the process.

You may find. like many of us do, that by posting and communicating, we are coming to some closure on personal issues and a time in our life that we need to understand. Many people thought they were over with it, but it seems as if this maybe a time to finally understand it and get over it. Unfortunately M seems to be too insecure to participate in this dialogue.

It's too bad, because it could only help all of us, especially him.
And when it would be all over, we could go out and maybe have a few beers....

Unfortunately, it seems like you already suggested that a long time ago, and M wasn't interested. (In the dialogue, that is: seems like he's always been interested in the beers)

Thanks a lot, and keep posting, if you feel inclined to do so.

La-ex


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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:42:01 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Hey Michael
Message:
Very cool to hear from you. I remember you well.

I'm a longtime ex-premie. Recently, a lot of people have been coming out onto this site after being in the cult for up to 30 YEARS! Can you imagine? It has been amazing to hear their stories, and difficult to imagine that the whole thing just went on after we all left. And there are still a lot of people stuck in a kind of cultic vortex. After so many years, it is probably almost like dying to leave.

I'm saying this because I think it is really valuable for people who were around Maharaji to speak out about what they saw and knew. It doesn't have to be all negative. In fact, the reason that Dettmers' posts are so convincing is that they aren't. But there really are still people who are wondering if 'he' is the Lord. And they have been enormously helped by this Forum and particularly Dettmers' posts. So I'm inviting you to, at your own pace and convenience, enter the conversation here.

I think part of the reason I still come to this Forum, after mostly forgetting about MJ for more than a decade, (been out since 1984) is that I talked a lot of people into a lot of crap, when I was a programmed premzoid myself. It feels good to be part of a recovery movement. And also, I have found, as I think Dettmers has after an initial feeling that he was complete with the whole thing, that there is more clearing for me that frees up more energy for my life now.

If you feel like putting your email address up, I will write to you and see if you remember me. I'm sure you do.

Love Disculta

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:40:11 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Thank you for your accurate recall, but
Message:
what do you feel now in retrospect?

As far as I'm concerned, I'm quite ashamed and embarrassed about lots of (what I now call) wrongdoings I did in the name of 'service', or implementing m's directions ...

I feel very sad, honestly, about all these - I can't find a name - that happened in the group I was an active part of.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 18:12:36 (GMT)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Thank you for your accurate recall, but
Message:
what do i feel now about that stuff then??? a big question really that goes to the heart of what i am now and how i tend to see life as it unfolds for me....as i unfold my life.

i have no regrets generally speaking. that was then and now is now. i joined up with m because i was looking for and needing at that time in my life a guru....a guru to match the devotee that i was then. Two sides of the same coin. without one there is no other. just as m needs devotees, devotees need a guru. and until i saw that i had evolved to a place where i did not need a guru, then i could leave the cult.

I started to leave many times but did not have the strength of character to take back my own power, the power that i had been giving to m. long story here that goes back to being raised as oldest of 6, catholic...social do-gooder, family model was that the highest thing in life was to be a humble servant of the lord and help lord uplift the world. so, the whole m thing fit me like a glove...until things became clearer to me that 1. he was not saving the world and therefore i was not helping someone do that adn 2. i was bored of being a servant/puppet giving my power away, discounting my friendships, trashing myself that i was no good and that everything we created was him and not really those of us who worked our butts off, etc.

so, mainly, i look back at that period with self reflection, knowing that there was something in me that needed what i drew to myself. the story is the same each day. I get in my life what i create for myself out of who i see myself as now. as i become more whole and integrated, claim my power, stop blaming those around me and know the process of projection better...i am becoming able to create a life fuller of love and real connection with the people around me.

i have felt embarrasment in the past, but even that, upon reflection is such a fear based feeling (for me, that i how i say it), fear of accepting my past actions and facing them as honestly as possibble...no other way to learn from my past in my opinion.
and as i try to love myself, who i am and who i was...i learn compassion that helps me with all aspects of my life and relationships.

maybe more later....i did post in a few places this morning as well as a letter that i wrote to m in 1987.

regards

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 08:26:02 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Thanks a lot, I needed that
Message:
as well as all others' exes stories to comfort me in the feeling I did the right thing leaving the whole scene.

There's no way back of course. I guess I've not yet recovered from all this.

Thanks again, your sharing is precious.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:38:16 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: post@rmi.net
To: michael donner
Subject: Welcome Michael
Message:
Thanks for visiting and I hope you'll make a regular appearance. Your unique position in M's organization make your comments valued here and I'm pleased you are willing to tell the truth about what you experienced..

I noticed in your post below about Blue Aquarius you express concern about the credibility of comments by anonomous posters (such as myself). Your concern is valid and accurate in some cases - sketchy information or imagination being presented as fact, etc. BUT, many more credible posters are coming forward now to put flesh on the bones of what went on back then and help us understand it better. I assure you all of my posts are as accurate as I can recall or otherwise indicated as speculation or humorous.

Email me and I'll be glad to tell you who I am. I am an IHQ veteran.

Postie

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:06:24 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Fakiranand = Fakir(beggar) + Anand(bliss)
Message:
That's the way I remember the meaning of Fakiranand - Beggar of Bliss.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 16:31:10 (GMT)
From: Mark Appleman
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Another Spin on the Tale
Message:

I wanted to offer another post-premie perspective to this ongoing forum of our lives. I just read a somewhat lengthy March 1 article by Wistancia Stone, a graduate of the DECA labor camps and a respected channel (not that they get all that much respect here)on the Marriage of Science and Spirituality at the spiritweb.org website. Its worth reading for many reasons (warning though, it does tend to go on ). Also, the site in general is quite wide ranging and open-minded.

Included in her very long article are a number of references to the knowledge and Maharaji as some elements in her early experience of consciousness expansion.

As we both live out here in the north LA suburbs, I spent about an hour with Wistancia a few years back reviewing the 'old days,' time spent in the belief system. (in retrospect, call it a non-alchoholic Latvian night, before they were cool). She was thankful to Maharaji for introducing her to the meditation and Eastern thought, but 'it wasn't very empowering in the long run, was it? .' She felt that at least Maharaji in the big picture was helpful since after a while, any true lover of god ( or SELF ) would have to continue the journey . 'At least he gets them into the game.'

Anyway, it was pleasant to see the positive and initiatory consciousness aspects of knowledge included in an article that attempted to address our planetary and individual awakening. I'm sure that Benign Inclusion or Indifference is not the majority spin for lurkers or participants(desperately fighting to regain their voice and Vote after De-Vote-tion) in this FORUM, but in time I feel it is Maharaji's final resting place in most of our lives.

Something and someone in the rear view mirror. Someone we are grateful and thankful to have escaped or outgrown. A Gollum who held on to the Ring of Power just a little too long.

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:36:49 (GMT)
From: bill burke
Email: None
To: Mark Appleman
Subject: Talespin
Message:
Hi Mark,
I have tried a number of viewpoints on for size since stumbleing away from the lord of the universe.
The one I have at this point might perhaps be the most grounded
one and the one I may find is the one I stick with.

While I can see reasonings for viewing m with the thinking that
something useful got a boost, with my latest framework in place,
I dont see how at all he played a useful part in this 'framework'.

I dont think my next typed sentences will look too revelatory,
but.....

I just try to love those around me no matter what thier behaviour. I try to support positive things and have fun with
whatever is going on. Also, I am just assuming that life has some power to interact with me in a concious fashion to some degree and it likes me.
Based on my life and looking at all kinds of others, it seems that the more you try to be involved with the god (whatever), the wierder you get.
Arms length at least is best.

He, m, seems to have wanted me all involved with some effort to reach the 'god'. And certainly 'love' is not his game, so he is doing and encouraging an approach to life that just does not intersect at all with what seems to make sense to me now.
So I cannot find a way to join those that are somehow still in
some framework where he conceivably added some value.

Always good to see your name posted.


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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:25:41 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: bill burke
Subject: long time no see. how are you, brother?!! Best,(nt
Message:
best wishes always
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 15:28:43 (GMT)
From: bill--Hi suchananda,...nt
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: it's easier to breathe with the 2 Mike's help eh?
Message:
sdgh
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:19:20 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Mark Appleman
Subject: Spinning
Message:
Hi Mark,

I just wanted to thank you for determinedly maintaining open doorways to alternate versions of the whole thang.

For me, one of the most important realizations on my spiritual path - and my path has expanded exponentially since leaving the cult, but it was also unfolding while I was 'in' - is the understanding that beliefs are just beliefs. Beliefs are tools. All beliefs are, in a sense, equally true. The beliefs we mostly embrace on this Forum are tools to help us - or parts of us - get our power back. It's a new belief system to help us get out of an old belief system that was hurting us. I think it's a valid tool, and I think it's actually quite necessary. When I was first exiting what was for me, because of my intense involvement at a close level, a rather toxic experience, it was quite important to embrace new belief systems that were really different than the cult's. Then, before long, I discovered newer ideas, and then more and other and more and other, and then I started really getting that beliefs are just beliefs. When you're inside them, they are transparent. They don't seem like beliefs, just as a fish doesn't know it's in water (sorry, Kabir!). When you're outside them, they look opaque and ridiculous. The nature of the cultic beliefs for some of us was very invasive and all-pervasive - much like a kind of water that crept into our veins at many deep levels. I think that's why it's helpful to have this alternate belief (MJ sucks etc.) to create a container for our recovery.

But I know it's not as simple as that. Most of us here on the Forum know that it's not as simple as that. Many of us did experience openings and wonderful inner stuff, along with a lot of pretense and even abuse. Actually, to completely deny all the experience we had is an attack on ourselves, not on the outer Gollum. I definitely had profound spiritual awakenings through my dedication all those years. It set me on a path for life, just as acid does for other people (my body couldn't tolerate more than one trip). The path I'm on now is incredibly different from the DLM nonsense. My practices include body, mind, emotions, spirit, the whole thing. And I had to spend a lot of time clearing some really toxic stuff out of my body, that got implanted by listening to MJ. In fact, having felt fairly detached for a long time, I have recently uncovered a pocket of Lardic conditioning that seems to have a lot to do with recovering my health.

I experience the whole thing as though it were different radio frequencies. On one channel, the whole thing sucked. On another, it was both good and bad. On another, it was a magical opening into a spiritual universe that has continued to this day. On my favorite channel, I'm not stuck on any one channel, I'm the channel-surfer herself, and I can surf back and forth between these channels, according to my needs, and larf.

I emailed you, Mark,

Love Disculta

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:13:11 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Mark Appleman
Subject: Spinning in Space
Message:
There are other exes on this site who've been involved with spiritual work before and after Maharaj Ji. But, unlike Wistancia Stone, we don't think Maharaj Ji had much to do with it. Like her, I had a cosmic experience of Light during my initiation (in 1975, by some Lady Mahatma).

Perhaps she is not familiar with this site, and would prefer to keep her ideas about M intact. But the truth is, the so-called Guru was probably out drinking cognac somewhere and was not concentrating his yogic powers on opening my chakras.

So I can't really be thankful to Maharaj Ji, although I am thankful that I was around a bunch of pretty nice people and learned some stuff about my inner landscape by spending a lot of time on the meditation cushion...and the devotion thing was valuable to me in its own way (although not to many people on this site.) If I could go back in time, I might choose another guru, another group, another religion.

The guy is a fraud. That's not good. I wouldn't recommend him to anyone, would you?

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:31:39 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Spinning in Space
Message:
Gregg, you and I posted at the same second, it seemed, with the word 'Spinning' as titles of our posts. Is this cosmic or what? Or not?

Just a little thought, in response to this:
'If I could go back in time, I might choose another guru, another group, another religion.

The guy is a fraud. That's not good. I wouldn't recommend him to anyone, would you? '

Yeah, I liked devotion, too, and am still sending those inner messages of love to a very similar place to the one that used to be labelled 'Maharaji' (minus the fear and guilt) and getting pretty good responses. I've often thought that it might have been cool to have had a more––excuse me everyone for saying so––'spiritual' guru.Then I could have had my spiritual trip and integrated it nicely in the world, instead of having to pick apart such a mish-mash. I mean, the meditation was okay (although I and many others here do different kinds now) but what a drag that so many of us here can't even bear to even think about meditating because it feels tainted with the whole disempowering cult crap!

My husband's guru was Muktanand. He left when Mukkie died, and didn't know until recently about Mukkie's sexual abuses. For him the whole thing was completely magical - chanting, meditation, yoga, community, an opportunity to get out of the way his life had been pre-programmed. He left Mukkie's world and became a successful contractor. No complaints. Although he is now disgusted by what he has found out, the actual impact of the guru experience in his nervous system was totally positive. It calmed him down, centered him, gave him himself back, and then he moved on. Ah well.

Yes, I agree with you. The guy is a fraud, and I wouldn't recommend him to anyone if he were the only ship in the sea.

Love Disculta

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 14:41:50 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: CW
Message:
So what are you now, the official PR for EV Australia INC on F5. Did not know that you worked for them. Do you?

Can you tell us what the organisers think of the event? Is it gonna be successful? What if it was not? Would not that be the end of the cult?

Also I want to understand what the fuck is this all about. Why are they running all these little event before the major one. Above from raising money to pay for the infrastructure and costs where will the profit go. Even if 2000 at an average of 1500 dollers that is 3,000,000 dollers. Please tell me and my con-padres where is that money going and why is it needed?

Can you claim that your teacher is not trying to make profit by acquiring a run-down depreciated ex-cattle farm and improving it with free labor so as to raise it's value and standing so that while the teacher is porking monica IRRC can go and market the conference area as one of the most exotic and well developed natural places in the area and thus charge exuberant prices. Is it not true that the price of the property is much higher than what it should be because of that fact (free labor).

When are you people going to wake up to the fact that when you stick your heads in the sand that does not mean fuck all?

Please stop crying about costs. I accept that there are costs. but if you really want to talk about costs, then show me your reciepts. What it is that IRCC is paying for above from carting extra shit for three days and paying for few gallons of diesel. Oh morgadge payments on the land, sorry forgot about that. Who's money was it to start with that put the deposite and who's money is it that's paying for it. I don't see rawat sweating for that or maybe I should have said I see rawat sweating for that, he always does when he smell money is about. Your guru know 101% that this is a money spinner otherwise he would not do it. Prove me wrong if you could.

Also, would you fuck off of talking about getting burned by others on the forum, yes we all know that Jim is a dick head and so and so is an asshole, but like I said (actually can't remember if I said it), if you can't cut it then you might as well stick it.

So again, here you are defending something but you are standing in a mud puddle, you gonna get out of it, cause I certainly sure ain't gonna step in it?

and my your days be full of light, he ha.

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:13:36 (GMT)
From: Cw
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: CW
Message:
No I'm not. Yes it will be.If you would like to know more Salam, why not just drive out there, introduce yourself and ask to be shown around.
Seriously ,you make out it's all a big secret. It cant be.Have you ever built a house, even a chookhouse. What did it cost. Work it out for yourself. See you Salam
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 10:33:38 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Cw
Subject: you being very informative.
Message:
So who is hidding something?

I will go there on some conditions,

1- lower registration fees.
2- Be allowed to video the event.
3- be allowed to interview the maharaja.

and no, I promise not to trash the party. All am looking for is some answers from the main man. I want to be able to talk to him face to face, without him being surrounded by his honchos and everything else. Belly to belly. But that is an imposibility, isn't? Or do I detect that you hope that you can arrange it.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 08:12:47 (GMT)
From: JANET
Email: Jai_Choix@yahoo.com
To: Everyone
Subject: OPEN LETTER TO HANS AND AMAR RAWAT-'IF YOU SEE..'
Message:
please read the message just below that i set out for you. it begins 'if you see this message'.
i erred in placement of the title so it did not come out visible on the board.
i mean my offer sincerely. you many reply privately or publicly
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 08:09:10 (GMT)
From: JANET
Email: None
To: HANS AND AMAR RAWAT
Subject: IF YOU SEE THIS MESSAGE, I ASK YOU PLEASE-
Message:
You guys must be pretty sick of living in all this freaky pretense. arent you just itching to leave your Dad's domain and get out into life and have it for yourself??
I hope neither one of you has fallen for his Crock about Knowledge. Don't make that mistake. don't ask for it. Don't buy it. You'll void out your only chance at having a life that's just yours.

Your Dad is a con. Doesnt he just make you sick?-- with all his drinking, and all his hypocrisy and his cheating?? He's a bigger criminal than John Gotti. He mugs people the world over for their money. We call that getting Jacked, down in my neighborhood.

vow that you'll never be like that. Tell him so.
COME ON, YOU KIDS--REBEL!! DAMMIT-ITS WHAT YOURE SUPPOSED TO DO! ITS YOUR JOB! YOU HAVE THE INSIDE COLUMN! YOU CAN GO WHERE WE CAN'T! TELL OFF THE OLD MAN! GET IN HIS FACE AND GIVE HIM REALITY!

you guys are always welcome here. maybe you could help us. we definitely could help you. are you interested?? you have friends here, if you want em.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 13:53:25 (GMT)
From: Amar
Email: None
To: JANET
Subject: I want birthdays like my cousin Shri Shadrack Ji-n
Message:
jhg
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 14:08:47 (GMT)
From: Amar's sister
Email: None
To: Amar
Subject: You got to be kidding. We love it here.
Message:
what's with all the pwkies looking after us. Those dork are like sheep and we love it. Now we get to go shoppin in a new plane. Wow, cool man, keep it up dad, we certainly love you.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 15:13:55 (GMT)
From: Amar
Email: None
To: Amar's sister
Subject: Leave your wallet, go on tour dad....nt
Message:
sghhsg
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 19:19:22 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: loafji@yahoo.com
To: FA (and Amar)
Subject: This for me is a sensitive issue....
Message:
For some reason I find the reference to and the Use of M's kids - (especially the boys who have not played an active role in K spreading to my knowledge) to be a little bit distateful.

May I ask the FA to consider if the use of real (and possibly innocent) peoples names on this site is in the best taste IF it is within forum guidelines.

Sorry to be a spoilsport - but I wouldnt blame em for having a great lifestyle at M's expense - BUT the contract is between the pwks and M - not with Amar and Hans Pal Sigh Rawat.

I was going to email this thought - but what the hell... perhaps we can discuss it.

Ho hum and Cheers

Loaf

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:24:41 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: so when is a kid a young adult?
Message:
I have to think even Amar is in his 20s now. No?
old enough to vote to serve time for a felony. Old enough to make a few decisions about life.
I am sure they are confused and all. but I don't consider them 'kids'. I work with people that age every day. Some of them are married and have 'kids'. I don't think M's progeny are so innocent especially Dya with her slinky devotional song routines and though I sympathize with having all that money tied up in a has-been god biz that isn't so popular these days, I do find them complicit in the scam if they are not speaking out.
Can't say I blame them for hiding from the public eye though. I'd be very embarrassed but shit, I've seen people give Michael D and a lot of others major shit for not speaking out here, then gush over them when they do. I don't understand why one would turn 90 degrees and defend the family.
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 10:16:21 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: so when is a kid a young adult?
Message:
If you read my post you would see that i only mentioned 'the boys' - the girls have both played a public role in the Rawat family circus - but the boys have been famously shy of the 'limelight'.

I do not know about their domestic/financial arrangements - but if they are being 'kept' it is by their fathers say so and money.

In the same way that it is wrong to drag the innocent Australian owners of Amaroo.com (or whatever)into our bug bear pit - I am uncomfortable about Hansi and Amar being talked about/to as if they were public property, which they have never made themselves out to be (to my knowledge). Daya and Wadi on the other hand have been at the forefront of rawat PR - and made some particulary dreadful videos - Wadi's of a few years ago made me feel physically sick - being so saturated with smug American sales speak. I was amazed and surprised that John McNelly - whom I know to be a journalist/ film producer and rennaisance man of wit, intelligence and irony had been bowled into a supporting role of producing such inmitigated shite ! (can I say 'shite' here ?)

Anyhow - let the girls take responsibiliy for their part (and their part alone) in the great swindle - but the boys (as far as I know) are nobodys business at all.

Thats all.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:57:09 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: This for me is a sensitive issue....
Message:
I agree Loaf....hate to be a party pooper at any time really.....but the kids (or young adults now I guess) no doubt love their mother and father ....and lampooning innocent parties when your gripe is with someone else ....well , it don't seem fair.

I'm no saint .....done a lot of things in life that maybe I shouldnt have ......and if someone had a gripe with me ....I'd hope theyd leave my daughter out of it and deal with me directly.

......but it takes all sorts to make a world I guess

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:01:03 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: I agree - leaves kids out of it (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 04:27:15 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Postie and loaf, dermot
Subject: adult children of alcoholics need to know
Message:
that no matter how much they mey love mom and dad, if either one is an alcoholic, they have not grown u[p with their real parent. they have known an imposter, distorted by booze. i am an ACA. any other ACA's on this forum would be perfectly within our rights and roles as ACA's, to practice the 12th tradition and extend our experience, faith and hope to four young adults, whom we know for a fact are adult children of an infamous alcoholic.
premlata, hans, daya and amar are adult children of an alcoholic. they have no idea what a normal upbringing is. alcohol has ruled their home and their abusive father since they were tiney. speaking as an ACA, they have no idea the vaults of pain and truth waiting to explode out of them once they break the family code of secrecy and silence and step out from under the lie and tell the truth.

i did not post in malice or vanity.
i renew my appeal. those of you who had alcoholic parents, i invite you to stand with me.

'I AM JANET, AND I AM THE ADULT CHILD OF AN ALCOHOLIC'

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 11:04:21 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: janet and Selene
Subject: Jane tand selene
Message:
Janet…..given your personal experience ,obviously m's drinking habit has touched a raw nerve and that's perfectly understandable. However as a first generation Englishman from an Irish /catholic background ( a culture where excessive drinking does not always = child abuse ) and given that there is no real evidence that the offspring have not been loved then I don't see your point. The drinking , as far as I can see is predominantly an issue of RANK HYPOCRISY as opposed to ABUSE OF CHILDREN.

Selene….yup you're right there is a similarity between PAMs and the kids …and yes they are now young adults……..but there is a slight difference of offspring and empoyee/servant/ devottee ( whatever)

Both of you are perfectly free to pursue the offspring …..go ahead ….it's a free world ( well …..that's another debate !! ) …..but to me it's unsavoury….and I don't want anything to do with it.

Show me the evidence that they've been physically and mentally abused and the whole thing is different. Likewise …Dayalatas devotion to her father and what he stands for is her decision. I hate the catholic church but don't try to sway my devoted catholic mother from it. Now if Dayalata or my mother were questioning their beliefs then I'd weigh in with my two pennys worth of opinion and advice and hope to change their belief. Not bully or coerce.

Cioa, Dermot

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 01:08:16 (GMT)
From: Amar's and friends
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Hey leave us out of this
Message:
We really like it the way it is, don't give a fuck who daddy ripps off as long as the dosh keeps coming.
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:17:43 (GMT)
From: Shri Shradley Tiddly Wink
Email: None
To: Amar
Subject: Hey, cuz, I'm sick of my old man too
Message:
Give me a buzz some time and lets do some E and go to a rave and pick up some chicks. I heard you've got a Masserati. My old man won't let me have a car.

Still going to satsang on a donkey. Shit, he's so tight with all that money he makes selling roses to peasants from my grandmohter's rose-garden.

Check you later, dude,

Shri Shri Shradley Diddly Tiddly Ji Ji

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 10:20:45 (GMT)
From: Shri 'kin Essex boy
Email: None
To: Shri Shradley Tiddly Wink
Subject: I know ya geezer...
Message:
nowarrimean
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Date: Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 22:31:28 (GMT)
From: Shri Shradley Tiddly Wink
Email: None
To: Shri 'kin Essex boy
Subject: You spotted me, Trainspotter Ji
Message:
Shri Shradley Tiddly Wink aka Thelma, Luke Pewk etc
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 11:15:54 (GMT)
From: Shri 'kin Essex boy
Email: None
To: Shri Shradley Tiddly Wink
Subject: Seems that we both have erred
Message:
We thought each other was Trainspotter Ji
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 18:29:50 (GMT)
From: Shri Shradley Tiddly Wink
Email: None
To: Shri 'kin Essex boy
Subject: Seems that we both have erred
Message:
That is too funny. Who are you?
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 19:21:33 (GMT)
From: Shri 'kin Essex boy
Email: None
To: Shri Shradley Tiddly Wink
Subject: I am Jethro. I thought you were Hamzen. NT
Message:
Nt
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 20:20:44 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Shri 'kin Essex boy
Subject: Hi, Jethro. I thought you were Hamzen
Message:
Did you get to meet Mahatma Trainspotter Ji?
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 21:32:04 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Pat, who is/was Mahatma Trainspotter Ji?nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 22:57:21 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Pat, who is/was Mahatma Trainspotter Ji?
Message:
That's my playful name for Hamzen.
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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 09:00:48 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Pat, who is/was Mahatma Trainspotter Ji?
Message:
Ok that's what I thought.

I've known Hamzen since 1974 and well what can I say....Mahatma Trainspotter Ji is the perfect description. Still I'd better not gossip about him here.

Today is good day.....once again.

Jethro

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Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 09:45:13 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Jethro, let's gossip about Mahatma Trainspotter Ji
Message:
Maybe it will draw him back into the conversation. I miss his dry musings on life and his stoical philosophy.
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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:19:18 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Shri Shradley Tiddly Wink
Subject: But seriously
Message:
I feel sorry for the kids in one way. Like Janet said, they have a dysfunctional father AND they live in LaLaLand. No, they are not fair game. Hands off the brats even if they rich, privileged and entitled and don't elicit much sympathy or pity.
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Date: Tues, Mar 13, 2001 at 10:22:11 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: What do expect, they were taught by Anth..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 03:54:18 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Have you guys seen our alternate reality recently?
Message:
Can't remember the name right now, but Phillip K. Dick, the late renowned science fiction author, once wrote a book about an alternative reality wherein the allies had lost -- not won -- the second world war. I think it might be called 'The Man in the Castle' or something like that. Anyway, it's a wonderful speculation about how the U.S. might have turned out in that case, the Germans and Japanese each occupying, and over the years culturally overwhelming, their respective halves of North America. You end up bowing subserviently west of Denver and doing goosesteps in New York.

Well, we have our own alternate reality too.

Query:

What would have happened if the older brother had kept the reins of power from the start and we'd somehow fallen into his trap?

or perhaps:

What would life have been like if Maharaji hadn't met Durga Ji, Goddess of Love (Western-style), but instead had stayed a little closer to Mata Ji, Goddess of Love (Indian-style)?

The answer, my friend, is just a click away:

Microsoft? Who said anything about Microsoft?

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 23:37:26 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I've e mailed them so watch this space
Message:
Brilliant Jim.Have you seen the Q and A page?Same old bollocks about 'the mind'. At least they appear to give money to (genuine) charitable causes. I've mailed them to inquire if I already have their knowledge as I got these 4 techniques from Prem pal in 1978. Also told them that I no longer follow Prem Pal as he is too interested in worldly things and many of his premies are confused as he no longer professes to the Lord of the Universe.I await their reply with eagerness. Might be interesting.
Mind you - that Shradhey (extinguishing his candles) is a bit tasty.Maybe I'll devote myself to him when he becomes the Avatar.
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 15:25:20 (GMT)
From: Phillip K. Dick fan
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: the book: The man in the High Castle (nt)
Message:
m
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 14:52:27 (GMT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Have you guys seen our alternate reality recently?
Message:
Or what would have happened if he really was the Lord of the Universe and gradually, as Knowledge spread, more and more greens, whites and greys had been attracted to holy planet earth and we had to share satsang and darshan with them. What if they had no arms or legs - how would they practice Knowledge? Or long reptile tongues or ears that stood out three feet or, gasp, real open-wide third eyes?

Or the aliens had parked in those specially set aside parking spaces in Texas and lots of small smiling ETs had stormed the festival.

Or the Rome venue had taken off into outer space like everyone wanted it to and landed on a planet full of blue many armed Krishna monsters?

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 13:38:51 (GMT)
From: bill--anyone got the time
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: and talent to run a ex-bhagwan site?..nt
Message:
dghke
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 07:59:27 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: god--a parallel universe. a bizarro world.
Message:
the kid looks just like my son did 2 years ago at 20. it would be fascinating if they met.

i often wonder what hans and amar think of being cut off from their cousins in prem nagar. hans would be turning 27 in september of this year, and amar is due to turn, what--21? amar and this kid are about the same age. rather than fight as to whose old man was the rightful claimant of the throne, I'd bet you they'd strike it off real quick, once alone together, into admitting its a real drag to have to live with this shit at home, always having to listen to the old man wheeze on, all the formality and bowing and scraping. It would be so rich if they ganged up on their fathers and rebelled and spoke out, mutinied and told off their parents and informed them what flaming assholes they have been--both for what they've done to their family and for what they've done with their lives, period.

and its so discouraging to see the wives be such good little puppets. clothes horses, jewelry models, baby factories, theyre both such obedient little dolls.

I'm amazed they havent had their feet bound and been subject to clitoridectomies.[caustic sarcasm]

COME ON, YOU KIDS--REBEL!! DAMMIT-ITS WHAT YOURE SUPPOSED TO DO! ITS YOUR JOB! YOU HAVE THE INSIDE COLUMN! YOU CAN GO WHERE WE CAN'T! TELL OFF THE OLD MAN! GET IN HIS FACE AND GIVE HIM REALITY!

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 04:06:40 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No birthday card from Uncle Prem?
Message:
Imagine if both your old man and his brother were, apparently, God, but each denied the other one's claim on the kingdom. How would you go about sorting that one out?
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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 04:06:38 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The Rawat Family Circus
Message:
Shri Shradley Diddly Tiddly Ji looks stoned or bored. Twenty years of listening to his daddy saying: ''G for Generator; O for Operator and D for Destroyer'' have the left the poor kid with nothing left to look forward to.

Bowly Shriek Satgurudev Shri Shradley Diddly Tiddly Ki Jai!

Actually I think old Satpal is a bit more honest than Fatpal and does not claim he is THE Master and actually allows his premies to have satsang - more in keeping with that old time juju of Shri Shri Hans Ji Ji.

Lordy, we might still be singing arti and wearing tilaks.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 06:31:51 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Satpal and Fatpal!
Message:
Great Pat! Maybe we can call them 'saddle pals' once we've handed them the reins and all!

But we could do hubcap arti with Ted. We are in the west, after all.

Satpal has stayed true to his roots. He was always pretty straight about that. Some of my friends in Bhole Ji's band switched allegiance to Satpal. He even used to know me on a first-name basis, but I never got into the guru thing with him. He seemed to lack warmth and charisma -- he was intense but not bhakti juju guru-like. When I couldn't stand the whole trip I was sitting in a car in the parking lot crying, instead of going into a band rehearsal. I remember that he was asking where I was. (Of course, he was trying to win us band members over to his juju circus.) One time I was at their residence, trying to hide the fact that I was crying because I was having a hard time, and Mata Ji said with a big smile, 'Confused?' She laughed and seemed to be mocking me. She asked one of the indian servant premies to get me some ice cream. Like I could eat it without gagging, the state I was in. She lacked basic compassion and was a bit cold (like ice cream??). It was kind of a let-them-eat-cake thing. Out of touch with basic human emotions.

Yes, they were a wierd bunch. I did like Bhole Ji though, because he was like a huge child. He was a lot of fun and we all loved him. We played records, dug the sounds, and talked about music and went to some great concerts with him. He would come over to our funky apartments in Venice and hang out with us. I don't even think we had any chairs in the living room at one place. Mata Ji made him get back in line and sent him to India. I remember when his manservant Manoj came over our house in Culver City when we were having a few drinks. He saw the alcohol and gave us such a look of sneering disgust. He asked us how we could drink when 'we were in Bhole Ji's shelter.' Yi! I think we told him off. He was jealous of us impure Westerners. And to be fair to him, some of the Indians really didn't understand what their Masters saw in us. Hey, we were fun! When we weren't crying, that is! Bowling Shriek!

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 06:45:17 (GMT)
From: Aussi Ji
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Talking about Bhole Ji
Message:
G,day Francesca,
I was wondering what ever happened to Jeff Bridgeford(not sure of spelling)He was in Blue Aquarius wasn't he?I remember being told he had something to do with the bee gees as well.
After I heard about knowledge I went to see Satpal in Sydney at a public program and was quite impressed with him.When I eventually went to my first program with Guruguts himself,I was disappointed with him.I thought Satpal fitted my concept of a guru more than his younger brother.

Cheers Aussi Ji.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 14:38:29 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Aussi Ji
Subject: Jeff Bridgeford
Message:
Unless things have changed, he was in the One Foundation band that was Maharaji's 'house band' in the 80s. After I left the cult in the mid 80s he was still the musician on one of M's vids.

Seemed like all his guitar stuff sounded like the first song I ever heard him sing (at a program in London at Alexandra Palace in 1973) 'At the Feet of the Master.'

In the Bee Gee's he was a drummer. He drummed with Bhole Ji's band for a while (if I'm not mistaken, original Blue Aquarius and beyond), but then Bhole Ji wanted a jazz drummer and got my friend (who I've lost touch with) Doug Sennibaldi. Doug's wife Colleen and I were asked to join the band as singers around the same time period (I think we came first). Jeff was still involved in the band and drummed on some songs. He and his family (wife is Carole, I think) were with us in Thousand Oaks during the holy family breakup, but I think they were Prem Pal loylists and went back to Oz. He showed up back in the states with One Foundation.

I'd imagine he's played on many of the CD Elan Vital sells, as well as background stuff for the vids. Nice guy, though.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 17:48:39 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Aussi Ji
Subject: Jeff Bridgeford - One Foundation
Message:
Forgot to mention the One Foundation problem. They were a great pop band, but they were the beginning of the end of a lot of creativity and music amongst the premies. It was not their fault, they were a great bunch of folks.

At one time all premies, and rarely even some aspirants (when people had to wait a year or so for K) gave satsang, and saw how powerful an experience that could be. Then there were 'bongo lists,' official or unofficial, and only certain people could give satsang. Then only designated premies, then only instructors.

With the music it was much the same. It started first with festivals and programs. Many bands and solo musicians played. Then One Foundation arrived on the scene, and pretty soon they were the 'house band.' The only music at programs was theirs. In the local communities, people played music at satsang. Before the satsang got phased out, the music got phased out. At a certain point, no one was asked to play at satsang anymore. The satsang got real 'introductory' i.e. geared for newcomers and propagation, and rather stilted, and the music stopped.

One Foundation was supported by DLM/EV and in about 1978 (when we were still all playing music at local satsang) they were around the LA community before the whole thing transitioned to Miami and DECA. Although by being the festival house band they could have acted like DLM/EV supserstars, there was not a hint of it. The support for them was very minimal. Because Ross Hannaford and his girlfriend Penny were not married, she was not supported and had to follow after the band as they traveled from program to program (plane tickets etc.) the best she could. I think at one point Jeff and his family lived in some funky hotel.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:25:39 (GMT)
From: Aussi Ji
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Jeff Bridgeford - One Foundation
Message:
G'Day Fransesca,
Thank you for the info.I remember hearing music in the early seventies from a lot of good muso's in satsang.We used to have Kim and Lindsay fields quite a lot and occassionally Ross Hannaford when he was up from Melbourne.He used to be in the famous Aussie band Daddy Cool,(you would know this).Lindsay Fields has been in John Farnham's band for years now.He tried to go it on his own a few years back,but lacked the charisma to do it.He is a good muso.Kim's constant singing on cd's got the better of me a few years ago and I cannot bear to hear her sing anymore.I think Daya has a lovely voice.

Cheers Aussi Ji

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 22:36:03 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Aussi Ji
Subject: Thanks for info
Message:
Didn't know that about Lindsay. I agree about Kim's voice, which is a pity, because she does have a good voice and at least when I was around her, she seemed to be a good person. But she became the voice of the cult.

Daya has a lovely voice -- very sultry. Unfortunately, better to sing lusty love songs to papa. Premies were raving about her voice that were friends of mine, and I was afraid I wouldn't be impressed. I was pleasantly surprised, at least with the two songs that I heard.

==f

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 06:25:36 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Man in the High Castle
Message:
Very cool vision of an alternative reality. My wife and I listened to the books on tape version on the way to and from Yellowstone last year. Nice way to travel.

Looking at those photos of Bubble Gum Ji and his Mata Ji clone wife and kids, doesn't BBJ look sad. And I mean that in a good way. It looks like he actually lives on the planet and knows this is just a gig. Unlike the penultimate master of arrogance, his baby bro'. And I hate to break it to Cap'n R so late in the game but BBJ always was the brains of the Rawat Mafia.

Postie - always trying to find some humanity in everyone

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 16:03:33 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Their family and other animals
Message:
How charitable of you, Postie!

Well, at least Satpal's organization does charity. They've been going bananas with earthquake relief according to that website. This quote seems as though it might be directed at Fatpal, but maybe I'm projecting and they don't even think about him?

'As Swami Vivekananda said, any 'dharam' which ignores the plight of widows and the poor is not dharam at all and we hope to alleviate the suffering of those who have been widowed, orphaned and made homeless by the earthquake, in any way we can.'

Mataji sent me to Spain in 1972. I was ironing her saris at the Supreme Divine Holy Residence in London. She was a cold fish. I thought she was the Holy Mother. It seems sad to me now that I could have believed that such a cold person (great description, Francesca) was the Holy Mother. Says something about my family life I think. She came in and yelled to me that I had burned her saris (which I hadn't) all the time. Then one day, having discovered that I knew High School Spanish, she summoned me in and sent me to Spain, which was the start of a most excellent adventure. However, I had been praying to be sent somewhere (anywhere but ironing hell), so I took it as more evidence that she was the Holy Mother. She had a kind of regal, uncaring arrogance about her. Satpal's wife does look like her (surprise). And so does Durga Ji in a certain way, although she's warmer.

To me, the most embarrassing ones were Raja Ji and Bhole Ji. I took someone new to a satsang at which they spoke, and it was one of the most humiliating days of my life. They seemed like self-conscious retards. I mean, I know that they are perfectly ordinary human beings with the same intrinsic human value as all of us, but there is something about setting someone up to sit on a throne that seems to bring out the worst in them.

When Mj and Bal Bhagwan Ji split up, BBJ was making a run on NYC and the apartment I lived in with my husband at that time was the headquarters for MJ's operation to spy on and sabotage BBJ's gig. False moustaches and secret radios and who knows what else.

Who would believe that weird shit I engaged in for 12 years!

Love Disculta

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 04:05:52 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: notinherent@yahoo.com
To: Disculta
Subject: Are you serious !!!
Message:
When Mj and Bal Bhagwan Ji split up, BBJ was making a run on NYC and the apartment I lived in with my husband at that time was the headquarters for MJ's operation to spy on and sabotage BBJ's gig. False moustaches and secret radios and who knows what else.

Do you remember the time frame for this? Oh yi!

Thanks for filling in the details. Between middle age, denial, regret and forget, this is wild!

Love,

Francesca

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 21:04:02 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: another Sopranos analogy
Message:
mata ji...

crazy old bat of a mother. Betrayed the mob boss. Mixed feelings when she died.

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Date: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 03:06:47 (GMT)
From: Thelma the Church Lady
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: TED Farkel moonlights as yoga teacher in Alabama
Message:
Needless to say, I am extremely upset that TED hid this from us Pewkies. He is two-timing Maharaji and teaching some horrible Hindu hideosity.

TED in Alabama

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Date: Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 00:10:43 (GMT)
From: TED Farkel's Secretary:
Email: None
To: Thelma the Church Lady
Subject: Mr. Farkle has no comment.He is in Latvia now. nt
Message:
nt
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