Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 14:21:22 (GMT)
From: Mar 27, 2001 To: Apr 03, 2001 Page: 5 Of: 5


G -:- Elan Vital Ltd - directors (edited by FA) -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:19:59 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- Public Records are Public -:- Thurs, Mar 29, 2001 at 21:42:58 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Please UN-edit, FA - public documents (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 20:12:37 (GMT)
__ __ Forum Admin -:- Another hit and run from Chris. -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 21:22:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Another hit and run from Chris. -:- Thurs, Mar 29, 2001 at 16:34:29 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Policy suggestion for FA -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 06:09:11 (GMT)
__ __ bill-Hi Nigel, did u talk -:- to gwhittiker about his very public lying?...nt -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 16:01:23 (GMT)
__ Patrick W -:- FA I thought private addresses were a no no. -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:57:51 (GMT)
__ __ Patrick W -:- FA I feel quite strongly about this. -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:11:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- Not intended as a threat -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 04:35:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Not intended as a threat -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 10:26:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- IT'S PUBLIC INFORMATION -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 08:28:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- THANK YOU, MARIANNE The law in the USA -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 08:50:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill-I did ask you for a -:- way to write him, you chose not to say how..nt -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:23:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- ***Bill***, did you email me today???? -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 05:29:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bill -:- nope! -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 15:47:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Brian -:- nope! -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 18:19:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Brian and eDrek -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 20:03:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Patrick W -:- way to write him, you chose not to say how..nt -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:59:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ RR -:- The best way -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:27:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ bill-My address and email -:- enclosed (thanks to the M.D.'s it is safer now). -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 15:54:42 (GMT)
__ RR -:- Elan Vital Ltd - directors -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:35:55 (GMT)
__ bill--Thanks G, I wanted -:- that liars address....nt -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:32:08 (GMT)
__ G -:- I have images, upload or email? -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:32:37 (GMT)
__ __ salam -:- good stuff G -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:24:46 (GMT)
__ __ Katie H -:- G - e-mail (or post) to J-M directly on this (nt) -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:17:50 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- I have images, upload or email? -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:01:00 (GMT)
__ __ JHB -:- I have images, upload or email? -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:46:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- There's financial info in the images. -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 22:27:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Scan them if someone wants to post them -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 22:43:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ G -:- They are scanned -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 04:15:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- There's financial info in the images. -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 22:29:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ JohnT -:- I'd like them -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:53:30 (GMT)

Cynthia J. Gracie -:- An Open Letter to Mr. Rawat -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:25:55 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Great letter, Cynth -:- Thurs, Mar 29, 2001 at 02:05:31 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Jim, I'm not holding my breath...(nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 29, 2001 at 21:04:18 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- An Open Letter to Mr. Rawat - excellent work /nt -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 04:20:27 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- JAGDEO issue is EV's Achilles' Heel -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:12:54 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- bet they're waiting for jag to die so they can... -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 10:03:29 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Yes......(nt) -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:38:56 (GMT)

cq -:- The censorship issue - a proposal -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:17:03 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- It ain't new and it ain't got legs... -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:24:20 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- so you 'haven't tried it 'cos you don't like it'? -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 20:39:43 (GMT)
__ Brian -:- Naw -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:07:38 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Thanks for your efforts, Brian. The issue is still -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 20:41:28 (GMT)
__ moldy warp -:- Great idea cq nt -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:14:59 (GMT)
__ __ moldy warp -:- FA Abi's post below has made up my mind -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:34:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- You mean no premies here? Not what I suggested -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:05:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie H. -:- There are two forums like that -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:39:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Those two are not quite the same, Katie - -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:48:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- I do see what you mean, Chris -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:57:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ moldy warp -:- There are two forums like that -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:43:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- There are two forums like that -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:01:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ roc -:- Life is now 'Great' instead of 'aFoot' (link) -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 02:07:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Thanks for the support. But KEEP IT UP! (nt) -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:50:20 (GMT)

Marsha donner -:- post in journey's -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:16:28 (GMT)
__ guy rollins -:- post in journey's -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 06:54:17 (GMT)
__ Brian -:- Marsha's Journey now online -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:49:08 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- thanks Marsha and Brian -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:06:48 (GMT)
__ __ Helen -:- thoughts on Marsha's journey -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:03:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- The culture of abuse -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:19:26 (GMT)

Abi -:- Goodbye and thanks -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 15:58:46 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- I'm so sorry you were jurt here -:- Thurs, Mar 29, 2001 at 03:38:57 (GMT)
__ Carol -:- I am sorry you were hurt further. -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 20:26:05 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- The good, bad, and the ugly are all right here -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 05:12:54 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- I think you know that answer Roger -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 17:12:19 (GMT)
__ Connie -:- Abi -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:05:44 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Connie, thank you for saying that so strongly -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:32:17 (GMT)
__ Sean -:- You can come back later -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:27:22 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Thanks to you too Abi... -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:12:58 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Christ! Wouldn't you know it? -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:51:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Thanks Jim -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:38:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie H. -:- Jim, that was a great post -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:13:42 (GMT)
__ Dermot -:- Abi please -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:53:30 (GMT)
__ Chuck Sprague -:- Abi, please.... -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:43:16 (GMT)
__ Brian Smith -:- Don't let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:29:38 (GMT)
__ Forum Admin -:- My part in this -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:42:29 (GMT)
__ __ Katie H -:- Hey, FA -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:20:43 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Borg Troll Patrol -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:09:51 (GMT)
__ __ Bazza -:- My fear -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:57:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Agreed. Catweasel too.. -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:45:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ roc -:- Correction for the record, Nige -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 02:30:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Thanks for email - no problem (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:21:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- And who the fuck are you? -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:04:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- I agree. Cat has no business here AT ALL! -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 02:17:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- On AG Cat and Oliver both wear cerise a lot NT -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:21:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- What do you mean by 'wear', Pat? (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:35:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- What do you mean by 'wear' -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:38:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- I don't want to speculate but.... -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:47:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- I don't want to speculate but.... -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 04:13:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- What the ozzies think -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 13:59:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- What the ozzies think -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 17:07:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- The 'respect' you show Katie is SOOOO CUTE! -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 16:39:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Well, at least he doesn't think women over 30... -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 16:55:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- What the hell???????? -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 17:43:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- Don't you get it? -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 17:55:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Don't you get it? -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 23:02:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- I give up, Katie -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 18:50:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Sorry for being cryptic -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 18:59:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Katie, you're too trusting for your own good NT -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 05:01:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- That's what you think:)! NT -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 05:06:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Too cryptic for me - email? -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 08:07:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- just joking-many people have told me otherwise(nt) -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 16:59:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Is Catweasel a David Smith clone? Both nuts NT -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:46:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- I second that, Bazza! NT -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:19:26 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Goodbye and thanks -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:12:25 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- No more Mr. Nice guy -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 22:38:09 (GMT)
__ Katie H. -:- Goodbye and thanks -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:31:42 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Abi, please don't let anyone drive you away -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:07:31 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- That's more like it Pat ... please read, Abi -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:32:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Chuck Sprague -:- Don't forget the most important definition of... -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:26:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie H. -:- I know y'all mean well, but a few comments -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 22:15:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ carol -:- I agree Katie. I am catching up. I appreciate that -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 21:15:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- I know y'all mean well, but a few comments -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 18:51:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Ditto! Amen! Thank you for saying that -NT -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:56:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- Thanks Pat - I was afraid you'd be offended! (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 02:17:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- I yelled and screamed bloody murder -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:17:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- I yelled and screamed bloody murder -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:26:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie H. -:- BTW, that is a quote from Susan at the end (nt) -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 22:16:51 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- I totally support and empathize with you.LOVE (nt -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:39:33 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- Everyone -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 17:20:22 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- you are right and another important point -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 17:27:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ lesley -:- totally, strongly, passionately agree, Susan, nt -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:12:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- It's a Moral Issue.... -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:35:23 (GMT)
__ Loaf - Please stay Abs, -:- I havnt read ANY of Cerise's posts since .... -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 17:13:41 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- I forgot to say please, please reconsider! n/t -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 17:12:58 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Thanks to you -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 17:08:43 (GMT)
__ __ moldy warp -:- Abi so sorry you feel like you need to leave -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:31:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Abi doesn't HAVE to leave -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:16:57 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- I am upset about this -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 17:00:23 (GMT)
__ __ Dermot -:- I am upset about this -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:21:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- I am not upset with you -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 04:37:45 (GMT)
__ Mercedes -:- personal decisions -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 16:47:18 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- Goodbye and thanks -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 16:17:03 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Goodbye and thanks -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 16:58:59 (GMT)
__ __ Richard -:- Abi you must reconsider, please -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 16:44:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ Babs -:- Block cerise. Support Abi. -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:39:29 (GMT)

Salam -:- hot of the press 1 -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 06:38:08 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Michael Duhaney was fun, fun, fun -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 06:44:02 (GMT)
__ salam -:- hot of the press 2 -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 06:39:21 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- what a messs -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:12:03 (GMT)
__ __ Richard -:- emailed on March 25th - 'If after March 20th...' -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 07:21:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Long lines and photos in Amaroo -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 09:44:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Or bug repellent and snake bite antidotes? -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 16:12:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ CW -:- Long lines and photos in Amaroo -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 11:53:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ salam -:- What with the gate -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 13:13:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- so they have 11,700 members who want cards. -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 10:15:12 (GMT)

La-ex -:- Pat C.Your vocabulary truly deserves an Oscar. -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 04:57:31 (GMT)
__ Roy -:- eloquence,humor and warmth - you go guy/gal! nt -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 02:33:14 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- Pat C. deserves an Oscar - yeah baby! -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 16:28:11 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- just tell him to wipe it clean after he's finished -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:31:29 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Or Patsy's ::) Urug....one of my favorites! NT -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:27:17 (GMT)
__ Dermot -:- hahaha or that recent one of his -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 08:40:44 (GMT)
__ Joy -:- Aww, That's Very Sweet, La-ex -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 07:41:05 (GMT)
__ Brian Smith -:- Pat Conlon has my academy vote -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 07:30:17 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Bedazzled, Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 08:35:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Dedazzled -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:44:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Bedazzled, Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:34:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mercedes -:- Love you Pat. Hugs to you, Mercedes (nt) -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 17:46:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Oh no!!! -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 15:57:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- ... and there's always more of them to come - -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:56:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- even soo it was GREAT -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:33:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- ***BEST OF...***^^^^^NOMINATION..!^^^^^ -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 15:27:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Thelma -:- The Thunderstealing Bitch's Swan Song - looser! -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:20:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Thelma, don't even think of retiring -:}} (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:28:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Thelma had to go because too many newcomers -:- Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:07:42 (GMT)

Sir Dave -:- Non exit counselling -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 02:41:56 (GMT)
__ cq -:- er, just a small, but very important point, Dave -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:58:01 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- er, just a small, but very important point, Dave -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:42:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- it's great SD -:- Thurs, Mar 29, 2001 at 03:30:06 (GMT)
__ Mark -:- exit counselling+++BEST OF+++WEBMASTER TAKE NOTE -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:02:15 (GMT)
__ Katie H. -:- Thanks, Sir David! (and Donner and Mickey) -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 13:27:40 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Thank you Sir Dave and the two Michaels NT -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 09:10:27 (GMT)
__ __ donner -:- Thank you -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:35:18 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Thanks Sir Dave! I've already ... -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 04:54:11 (GMT)
__ Dermot -:- Thats very kind and considerate. -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 02:55:01 (GMT)
__ __ Richard -:- A useful addition - thanks David /nt -:- Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 06:12:50 (GMT)


Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:19:59 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Elan Vital Ltd - directors (edited by FA)
Message:
Glen Whittaker and Norma Wilshaw are the directors of Elan Vital Ltd., which is the private limited company that PWKs are contracting with for Amaroo 2001. A separate document shows that all shares are owned by 'Trustees of Elan Vital Trust'. The companies profit - after expenses - is donated to Elan Vital, the UK 'charity'. Note that this company was renamed from 'W. B. STORES LIMITED'. I have the documents mentioned below, which I will post, but not the Share Allotment documents.

From Companies House:

The Directors Report for ELAN VITAL LIMITED (compiled 26/03/2001)

Company Register Information

Company Number: 02289543
Incorporated on: 24/08/1988

Registered Office: 3 THE DRIVE, HOVE, EAST SUSSEX, BN3 3JE

Company Type: Private Limited Company
Country Of Origin: United Kingdom
Status: Active

Nature of Business
(SIC(92)): 7484 - other business activities

Mortgage Number
of charges: 0 (0 outstanding / 0 part-satisfied / 0 satisfied)

Previous Names:

Date of Change: Previous Name:
18/11/1988 W. B. STORES LIMITED

Key Filing Dates

Accounting Reference Date: 31/03
Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/03/2000 (FULL)
Last Return Made Up To: 23/02/2001
Next Accounts Due: 31/01/2002
Next Return Due: 23/03/2002

Last Full Members List: 23/02/2001
Last Bulk Shareholders List: Not available

Company Officers

Number of current appointments: 3

Company Secretary: WILSHAW, NORMA
Appointed: pre23/02/1993
Date of Birth: 25/05/1950
Nationality: BRITISH
No. of Appointments: 2
Address:
(Personal address deleted by FA pending policy review on publishing already public info)

Director: WHITTAKER, GLENVILLE MARTIN STANLEY
Appointed: pre23/02/1993
Date of Birth: 26/10/1943
Nationality: BRITISH
No. of Appointments: 3
Address:
(Personal address deleted by FA pending policy review on publishing already public info)

Director: WILSHAW, NORMA
Appointed: pre23/02/1993
Date of Birth: 25/05/1950
Nationality: BRITISH
No. of Appointments: 2
Address:
(Personal address deleted by FA pending policy review on publishing already public info)

Recent Filing History

Documents filed since 20/01/2000

DATE FORM DESCRIPTION
20/03/2001 363s RETURN MADE UP TO 23/02/01; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS
05/02/2001 AA FULL ACCOUNTS MADE UP TO 31/03/00
20/03/2000 363a RETURN MADE UP TO 23/02/00; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS
20/01/2000 AA FULL ACCOUNTS MADE UP TO 31/03/99

This Report excludes 88(2) Share Allotment documents

Report prepared by Companies House as at 26/03/2001

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 29, 2001 at 21:42:58 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Forum Admin.
Subject: Public Records are Public
Message:
As I understand it, if an organization and possibly individuals who incorporate, whether or not it's for a profit or not-for profit corp., in any state it becomes a public record. Anyone can access it, it's not a breach of confidentiality or private information. It's public information.

Anyone could simply insert a link on this sight to where these officers' home addresses are available (a state's sec'y of state's office) and it would be the same as posting them here.

The point is, as Marianne put it, if the PWKs don't want their personal home addresses made public, they have the choice of not being on the board of directors of ANY of EV's corporations. Period. All corporations must file these papers and officers are listed in the Secretary of State's office of any U.S. state, so I don't see the privacy issue here.

It's not the same as outing someone. It doesn't compromise their privacy, because by signing documenments of incorporation as officers of any corporation have to do, they have already relinquished that privacy.

That's my understanding of corporate law, which I am not an expert on, but know a bit about.

This is FYI,

Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 20:12:37 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Please UN-edit, FA - public documents (nt)
Message:
and public means public.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 21:22:29 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Another hit and run from Chris.
Message:
These are public documents in the place they have been made public. For the time being, transcribing those addresses here breaches forum guidelines. A review of those guidelines is taking place, and I'm sure some compromise will arise.

Chris, would you like to debate these issues? If so email forumfour@hotmail.com

Forum Admin

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Mar 29, 2001 at 16:34:29 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: planetqwerty@postmaster.co.uk
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Another hit and run from Chris.
Message:
Sorry for the brevity of my post - I intended to be brief - but not to the point of rudeness, which it evidently came over as. Apology due, and I hope accepted.

.
.
.

Well, another juicy can of worms we've got here, haven't we?

I fully accept that - as a guideline - posting private addresses should only be done by the householder concerned. Forcibly outing people isn't my style, and I don't think the Forum as a whole would benefit from it either.

But there's always an exception which probes the rule. Such as this issue of re-posting documents which are in the public domain.

It may be against stated Forum guidelines, but this kind of information has been posted here many times in the past. There are plenty of similar documents in the Forum archives, giving the addresses of the directors etc. of premie-run businesses. Perhaps one solution would be for the person posting to omit the addresses, but to include a link to the site which holds that info, which would avoid any possible breaches of copyright as well.

As a Forum contributor, I'd just like to know where we stand - what's permitted and what isn't. It's the uncertainty of one thing being OK one month, and not OK the next that can lead to an atmosphere of distrust, IMO. Let's hope the proposed review you mention results in a policy that's at least workable - for the FAs as much as the rest of us!

And in answer to your question, yes - I would like to debate these issues, and I think the Forum is the perfect place for that, n'est-ce pas?

However, if there's something you'd like to discuss with me which requires a bit more privacy, then feel free to email me at the above address.

Regards,

Chris

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 06:09:11 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Policy suggestion for FA
Message:
Don't allow private addresses here, but allow people to post links to web pages which show those addresses. That way any breech of privacy is somebody else's legal responsibility and you can always choose to remove the posts with links if the person concerned appears to be unfairly targetted.
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 16:01:23 (GMT)
From: bill-Hi Nigel, did u talk
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: to gwhittiker about his very public lying?...nt
Message:
sfdgh
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:57:51 (GMT)
From: Patrick W
Email: None
To: G
Subject: FA I thought private addresses were a no no.
Message:
I'm not sure it's so cool to post these addresses. These guys may be directors of EV but does that justify publishing their private adresses? I think not. This to me is taking things too far.
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:11:50 (GMT)
From: Patrick W
Email: None
To: Patrick W
Subject: FA I feel quite strongly about this.
Message:
I know both these people and although I may disagree with what they say and do in many respects, I confess that I really don't like to see their personal addresses broadcast here. I just don't think it's playing ball. If I had thought it was necessary I could have supplied you these addresses ages ago but it never once occurred to me that it would be even the slightest bit appropriate.

The EV address in Hove is obviously the place to address correspondance anyway. Although it is literally a mile from where I live I didn't actually know exactly where it was myself until I read G's post.

But let's do the right thing - we should not be putting Glen or Norma's address on the Net. These are family people and it is just plain irresponsible.

FA please remove Glen and Norma's addresses. (and NO they did not ask me to say this.)

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 04:35:13 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Patrick W
Subject: Not intended as a threat
Message:
I did not intend this as a threat, I wasn't even thinking about that. This document is public information and their addresses can be obtained by other means via the web. I just considered their addresses as part of the other information.
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 10:26:01 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Not intended as a threat
Message:
Hi G,

I agree with the Forum policy about not putting up individuals names and addresses.

If Norma saw her name and address on the forum, I'm sure she would feel very uncomfortable, if not threatened. Even if this was not the intention of posting it.

Also, I can't see any practical reason for publishing someone's private address. If anyone wants to get in touch with Glen or Norma, they can do it throught the EV office.

Anth changing address again.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 08:28:01 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: G
Subject: IT'S PUBLIC INFORMATION
Message:
Look, these documents contain information that is easily available from government sources. These are public corporate documents. This information is required to be on the documents. If they don't want members of the general public to know their addresses, where they do the dirty business of promoting Captain Rawat's cult, THEY CAN RESIGN.

Leave this information on the site.

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 08:50:16 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: THANK YOU, MARIANNE The law in the USA
Message:
states that all officers of any business including sole proprietorships be on file and easily available to everybody. I know because I am an officer in a company and that is the law.

You're right, if they are ashamed of what they are doing or their business cannot stand public scrutiny then they ought not be engaged in that business and can resign.

And they should do so soon before they become liable for damages following the inevitable lawsuits.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:23:12 (GMT)
From: bill-I did ask you for a
Email: None
To: Patrick W
Subject: way to write him, you chose not to say how..nt
Message:
sadfh
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 05:29:09 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: bill-I did ask you for a
Subject: ***Bill***, did you email me today????
Message:
Bill, I was unable to email you back today because of an error.

Was that really you or was someone fucking with me?

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 15:47:20 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: nope!
Message:
Hi Drekmaster,
Multifaceted/multifaced master of mirth and mania,
it was not me. Someone did post here as BB recently, was it them?
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 18:19:55 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: bill
Subject: nope!
Message:
Sheeesh, Bill. Then your 'firewall' has been using your puter. You sent me an email too. Subject: test Message: test

I figured you just passed out on the keyboard again... [snicker]

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 20:03:39 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Brian and eDrek
Message:
Hi Brian and eDrek,
I did not email you yesterday or for quite some time.
And that was your question.
That email I read in the thread way above is from me all right
but was from a long time ago!
Any way to check the date on that one again?
You will see it dates back quite a ways.
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:59:29 (GMT)
From: Patrick W
Email: None
To: bill-I did ask you for a
Subject: way to write him, you chose not to say how..nt
Message:
I did ask you for a way to write him, you chose not to say how.

Bill- I don't recall you asking me this -sorry - maybe I have a bad memory . As a matter of fact there is no way I would 'choose' not to tell you how to contact Glen. Glen and any EV director or staff member can surely be contacted at the Elan Vital address which is no doubt easily obtainable for anyone who wants to know. Isn't that where all these premie mailings come from ? The address must be all over their stuff. As I said, I didn't know this address anyway.

You're right that I would not give out Glen's address here. How would you feel if EV started posting your address on their site as a pet opponent of theirs? They don't stoop to this kind of stuff - why should their critics? In my opinion it is counter productive.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:27:15 (GMT)
From: RR
Email: None
To: Patrick W
Subject: The best way
Message:
The * We know where you live * situation is the best one. A lot of ex-premies are afraid. If the Elan Vital leaders are not hidden behind business addresses and the like, then ex-premies can see that there would be no point in Elan Vital or premies trying to frighten ex-premies by threats, implied or real.

You don't think that would happen? Well, it can't now, anyway.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 15:54:42 (GMT)
From: bill-My address and email
Email: None
To: RR
Subject: enclosed (thanks to the M.D.'s it is safer now).
Message:
But not the phone!
Although, best of luck to anyone who wants to call here!
There is my wife and 4 boys and even my wifes mother!
You would get them and that is quite a firewall.

16 Jay Street Wethersfield Conn. 06109
bburke@rocketmail.com

Since Donner and Dettmers have arrived, I think it is safer now.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:35:55 (GMT)
From: RR
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Elan Vital Ltd - directors
Message:
That's good insurance. Just in case some dumb premie ever threatens any ex-premie.
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:32:08 (GMT)
From: bill--Thanks G, I wanted
Email: None
To: G
Subject: that liars address....nt
Message:
adsfg
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:32:37 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: J-M et al
Subject: I have images, upload or email?
Message:
I have images of the documents mentioned, should I upload them, if so, how? Or should I email them?
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:24:46 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au
To: G
Subject: good stuff G
Message:
Send it to me, I will put them on my site if you like
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:17:50 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: G
Subject: G - e-mail (or post) to J-M directly on this (nt)
Message:
(nt)
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:01:00 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: G
Subject: I have images, upload or email?
Message:
Good work, G. Be sure to get Jean Michel copies of the original documents, especially the finances.

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:46:55 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: G
Subject: I have images, upload or email?
Message:
You've already posted the info - any benefit in having the docs on-line? It's not as if they contain earth shattering info:-)

John.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 22:27:00 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: There's financial info in the images.
Message:
There is financial info in the images that has not been posted.
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 22:43:31 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Scan them if someone wants to post them
Message:
A lot of the stuff on EPO and Jean-Michel's website is scanned in order to get all the info.

Also a scanned document is more official or credible than typing out the document. Even though someone could tamper with a document and scan it, it is a big step up from typing it out yourself, as far as being believable.

Just a thought, and good work. Joe Whalen may also be interested -- he seemed to be asking a lot of questions about the various companies and their permutations.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 04:15:59 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: They are scanned
Message:
Thanks for the good suggestion, but they were already scanned by Companies House and are available for a small fee on the web, so the information can be verified. This is all public information.
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 22:29:36 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: G
Subject: There's financial info in the images.
Message:
Send it to Brian or Jean-Michel. Can't remember their addresses at the moment.

John the not very helpful

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:53:30 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: jtucker@dircon.co.uk
To: JHB
Subject: I'd like them
Message:
I think they would be a nice touch to accompany my spoof Elan Vital company song

I'm sure Glenn would appreciate the gesture.

Then it will be easy to link to the documents if anyone needs to refer to them. Nice one, G.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:25:55 (GMT)
From: Cynthia J. Gracie
Email: sylviecyn@yahoo.com
To: Mr. Rawat
Subject: An Open Letter to Mr. Rawat
Message:
Everyone,

I'm compelled to write this open letter to Mr. Rawat and if I email it to him no one will see it, so I'm posting it here:

**********

To: Mr. Rawat, Elan Vital Monitors, Elan Vital Legal Staff

From: Cynthia Gracie, Warren, VT, USA

Re: Child Sexual Abuse by Jagdeo

It is abuntantly clear that you continue to choose to ignore that an Agent of yours, known as Mahatma Jagdeo (Jagdeo), has been accused of sexually abusing children and teens while in the employ and/or working as a volunteer, of the defunct 'Divine Light Mission,' (DLM) now known as 'Elan Vital,' (EV).

You have been provided with personal accounts and complaints of said abuse on numerous occasions and the responses have been unsatisfactory. It is a fact that after you received the letters from Susan H. through Michael Dettmers, that your Legal Department responded. It is also a fact that after said response, the FAQ section on the EV website was revised. This issue has not been resolved by a long shot, Mr. Rawat.

Mr. Rawat, there is ample proof that the alleged perpetrator, Jagdeo, did commit these criminal offenses against the complainants. By all descriptions of these sexual acts performed by Jagdeo on children entrusted into his care, while your Agent, in a position of power which was well beyond normal circumstances, because you run a cult, it is clear he is a pedophile.

You have voluntarily put yourself forward publicly as a humanitarian, Mr. Rawat, someone who loves and cherishes human life, a Master of Love, The Lord of the Universe, Perfect Master, Creator, Highly Evolved Teacher, and many other monikers which you used to brainwash thousands of people since you set foot in the Western world.

When I was a member of your cult, I remember you giving 'satsang' (speech) about seeing a child being beaten or hit while you happened to be shopping one day. You said in that speech that you felt like walking up to the person and saying (paraphrased) 'why don't you hit yourself if you feel like hitting someone.'

When I heard this statement from your speech, I believed that you were a compassionate humanitarian. I believed that you cared about children. I was dead wrong. Mr. Rawat, your denial of your responsibility as the spiritual teacher and leader of EV is wearing very thin. It has become laughable. Why did you allow Jagdeo to leave the United States when you were aware that he was comitting heinous acts, in fact, criminal offenses, against the children of your premies, people with your so-called Knowledge, who entrusted their lives with you, people who dedicated everything to you? Why does Jagdeo now remain free without any accountability or consequences for his crimes? Why are you afraid to take action, Mr. Rawat?

You have much to answer for Mr. Rawat. You are the person ultimately responsible for the Agents of your organization(s). Children were severely wounded by the acts of your Agent, Jagdeo. It's time for you to do something about it.

It's time to decide, Mr. Rawat, remember that?

I look forward to your response, Mr. Rawat. My address above is ample for me to receive mail through the U.S Postal Service.

Sincerely,
Cynthia J. Gracie


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Date: Thurs, Mar 29, 2001 at 02:05:31 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Cynthia J. Gracie
Subject: Great letter, Cynth
Message:
Especially liked that mention of the satsang he gave about seeing the kid get hit. What posturing, huh?

Hey, don't forget to let us know when he answers, 'kay?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 29, 2001 at 21:04:18 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, I'm not holding my breath...(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 04:20:27 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Cynthia J. Gracie
Subject: An Open Letter to Mr. Rawat - excellent work /nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:12:54 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Cynthia J. Gracie
Subject: JAGDEO issue is EV's Achilles' Heel
Message:
The latest guerrilla Borg Troll/Divine Clone attacks were calculated to discredit Abi who is obviously a thorn in EV's side. At least it is nice to know that the JAGDEO issue is causing them so many worries. And it isn't going to go away anytime soon. The Borg and Rev Moonbeam know that we are onto them. Let's keep up the pressure.
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 10:03:29 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon+ cynthia
Subject: bet they're waiting for jag to die so they can...
Message:
exhale and call the whole thing moot.
why doesnt someone just go to india and get the old man?
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:38:56 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Yes......(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:17:03 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The censorship issue - a proposal
Message:

This being the 21st century, the technology should be up to handling this idea:

I propose that any post/thread that would currently risk being deleted under present FA policy be put instead onto another page at ex-premie.org. That way, those who would be offended by reading the more expletive posts can exercise their sensibilities simply by reading only the original Forum, and not the 'X-rated' one.

[the idea is not as pointless as it might at first sound, and is certainly preferable to turning this place into some kind of church-ladies' haven of niceness. Cathartic expression is an important part of exing for many, and this site would be (and has been) all the more valuable for allowing people to reconnect with (and express) the anger that was always suppressed in premiedom.]

How about it Brian and the FAs? Worth trying - even if only as an experiment for a trial period?

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:24:20 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: It ain't new and it ain't got legs...
Message:
I propose that any post/thread that would currently risk being deleted under present FA policy be put instead onto another page at ex-premie.org. That way, those who would be offended by reading the more expletive posts can exercise their sensibilities simply by reading only the original Forum, and not the 'X-rated' one.

As FA, and for reasons similar to yours, I suggested on the forum that the Forum Admins henceforth re-post/paste deletable troll posts over to Anything Goes, in the interests of openness so that the anti-censorship lobby (such as your good self, it has to be said) would take no more umbrage than entirely necessary. You can read the shit that was never fit to print.

Nobody endorsed the idea so I never bothered doing it. A new page would be more trouble than anyone's got time for, I promise.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 20:39:43 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: so you 'haven't tried it 'cos you don't like it'?
Message:
... to quote the old Guinness ad.

Nigel, the difference between selecting a post and deleting it, and selecting a post and filing it in another location might be 'more trouble' than you had time for, but I would have thought the simple fact that it would take a fraction of the time compared to the time taken just reading the posts might count for something.

The censorship issue isn't just about time-management, after all.

I have to say I find your attitude disappointing (well, at least Brian's given it his best).

Incidentally, my original post on this thread could have been seen as suggesting that ALL posts considered for censorship should be placed at the other page. I must correct myself and say that I do recognise that a certain amount of 'pruning' (especially in matters of legal liability) is necessary here.

Otherwise, I stand by what I proposed.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:07:38 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-permie.org
To: cq
Subject: Naw
Message:
This being the 21st century, the technology should be up to handling this idea

Unfortunately it's just not there yet.

I was on the phone today for over an hour discussing how to dig a couple hundred pearls out of 150,000 archived posts that mostly contain 'cathartic expressions' ('Thanks for posting that!', 'NT', 'Oh yeah, well fuck you too!', etc) The technology isn't up to that task either, but I'm gonna try to work on it.

Meanwhile, whatever the FA's can do to lessen the job is fine by me. I personally favor that every post containing the phrases '...should...', '...a great idea!', 'can we...', and the ever-popular 'Hey, FA! Why...' be deleted before an archive is compiled. (Along with all posts containing suspicious vowels, of course.)

But mainly, I don't want to have to wade through this thread at that time. But if you want to put it online somewhere, go for it :)

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 20:41:28 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Thanks for your efforts, Brian. The issue is still
Message:
The issue is still important, IMO.
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:14:59 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Great idea cq nt
Message:
X
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:34:56 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: FA Abi's post below has made up my mind
Message:
I think cq's idea above is brilliant. A different forum for premies and exes to engage would solve the problem. ForumV could then be legitimately policed without out and out censorship.
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:05:34 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: You mean no premies here? Not what I suggested
Message:
You mean no premies here? That's not what I suggested.

And you forget that the ex-to-ex encounter often raises a few bloodpressures.

We (exes) need to be able to vent steam at each other too, you know.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:39:41 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: There are two forums like that
Message:
Hi Moldy -
There already are two forums like that: Anything Goes (link is on this site somewhere), and CD's forum 'Life Is Great' (or something like that). I don't have the link to that one, but I'm sure others here do - also can provide a link to AG.

Sir David set up Anything Goes just FOR things like this, btw.

Take care (gotta go!),
Katie

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:48:24 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Katie H.
Subject: Those two are not quite the same, Katie -
Message:
- the important difference being that posts deleted from this Forum don't end up there.

Perhaps they could, but it might easier (as regards the the admin/tech side of things) to keep it the process within this one site.

I hope you can see the difference.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:57:18 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: I do see what you mean, Chris
Message:
But it takes a lot of time to move an entire thread. It is easier to move one post, of course :).

Also, I was thinking about Abi's situation at the time, and was mostly thinking about people who want to be abusive, or are unable to refrain from being abusive, and thus are blocked from thsi forum.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:43:53 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Katie H.
Subject: There are two forums like that
Message:
Thanks Katie. I forgot about that. Perhaps an explicit routing there for premies could be put on expremieorg home page. But I guess that's up to FA and those who set up other sites. Love Moldy
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:01:06 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: There are two forums like that
Message:
Hi Moldy -
As I said to Chris, I wasn't really talking about a forum for premies to engage - I was more thinking about premies (or EX-premies, or anyone) who cannot refrain from being abusive. Although some of the most abusive posters here have been premies, in general, I find that most of the premies who post here are reasonably civil, and worth talking to.

There was a lot of premie/ex talking at one point on CD's forum - I don't know if there still is. CD deletes abusive posts by anyone, so it's pretty polite over there :).

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 02:07:16 (GMT)
From: roc
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: Life is now 'Great' instead of 'aFoot' (link)
Message:
Life's Great
(But pretty dead at the moment)

And Anything Goes is currently a nameless broken window .... (who shot that roc?!)

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:50:20 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: Thanks for the support. But KEEP IT UP! (nt)
Message:
sldkfj
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:16:28 (GMT)
From: Marsha donner
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: post in journey's
Message:
brian use marsha donner to post in the journey site. thanks
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 06:54:17 (GMT)
From: guy rollins
Email: None
To: Marsha donner
Subject: post in journey's
Message:
Marsha, we read your post. Thanks -- Guy
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:49:08 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Marsha donner
Subject: Marsha's Journey now online
Message:
Thankyou for allowing it on the site, Marsha. Let me know if you ever want to change it.

The link to her Journey is here.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:06:48 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Marsha donner
Subject: thanks Marsha and Brian
Message:
A welcome relief to have this here.
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:03:45 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: all
Subject: thoughts on Marsha's journey
Message:
Yes I heard about Marsha's post and was glad to find it where it truly belongs in the Journey section. Her remarks on grieving struck me as did her accounts of M's abusiveness and the completely de-humanizing and disrespectful dynamics in M-land. Occurs to me that alot of us didn't even consciously know we were exiting or grieving. I certainly didn't consciously say to anyone, 'I was in a cult and now I am not.'

For me it was more subtle, being exposed to other types of spiritual and religious people who were intelligent and committed to serving others. This made Maharaji, in comparison, look very shallow and superficial so that I naturally grew away from him. As Marsha said, it doesn't make one feel very spiritual to be treated in a degrading or demeaning manner, which seems to be Maharaji's way.

But I could never have completely articulated what I had gone through and what I had been caught up in were it not for this forum. And if not for the forum, I might have been sucked back into the knowledge-lite culture, which has been newly repackaged in a 'palatable' form, seemingly less violent to the mind but just as unethical as ever. So thank you forum once again.

I don't hang out here much anymore but I do read and try to keep up with the site especially when a friend mentions a certain post and then I check it out.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:19:26 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: delores@gofree.indigo.ie
To: Marsha
Subject: The culture of abuse
Message:
Marsha, your Journey struck many chords with me. It is very powerful.

What I most appreciate about the PAMS posting is that you are fleshing out the picture of Captain Rawat's true behavior towards people who around him. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THE SERIAL PHYSICAL, SEXUAL AND EMOTIONAL ABUSE HE HAS PERPETRATED UPON PEOPLE. He kicked Mike in the balls???? That's an assault. You can get prosecuted for something like that in California.

Now I understand why Captain Rawat does not do anything about Jagdeo, or about those who abuse their power within the cult. He does not see this behavior as morally wrong, because these people are simply mirroring his own behavior.

The treatment that you and Mike received at his hands was appalling and outrageous. Although I too yearned to 'sit at the feet of the Master', I now realize how lucky I was to be a peon teenage ashram premie. I escaped the worst of it because I never get anywhere near the guy.

You sound as though you have healed well, Marsha and that you and Mike have built a good life together. Congratulations. And please do try to drop in from time to time. Why you might even be able to snag a date with TED Farkel when Mike's not looking!

Warmest regards, Marianne

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 15:58:46 (GMT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Goodbye and thanks
Message:
Hellow Everyone,

while I understand blocking and censorship are politically complex issues I personally don't want to engage in this forum any longer while 'cerise' is a presence here. I'm really not trying to be manipulative by saying this and I support the FA's descision. For me a valued space for healing has turned into a space for abuse. I found her comments about me being raped by an elephant totally vile. I also found the posted story about the raped girl and her comment that this should be recommended reading for the 'so-called victims here' foul. And the rest of it. I can't stomache it. I feel strongly that the forum serves an important consciousness raising function but I personally feel that a line has to be drawn with people like 'cerise'.

I respect the altruism here, the truth telling, the courage, the brave intelligence, the humour which has had me laughing for ages afterwards. It's been very cathartic. You are all very inspiring people. You've been like a wonderful bunch of big brothers and sisters.

My father and I have written a letter to M about Jagdeo which he should receive soon. I will let Anth know the results. It will certainly be posted if they do not respond. The story will also be made public through other mediums.

So thanks for being there.

Best wishes to all

Abi

ps I really hope that if Cerise responds to this thread she is ignored.


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Date: Thurs, Mar 29, 2001 at 03:38:57 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: I'm so sorry you were jurt here
Message:
I really enjoyed reading your posts.
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 20:26:05 (GMT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: I am sorry you were hurt further.
Message:
I came to all of this stuff just yesterday and I have not read any of the Cerise posts. It is enough to read what your response and a few others have said, to know I do not want to reward that person with attention.
Carol
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 05:12:54 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Abi
Subject: The good, bad, and the ugly are all right here
Message:
Abi and everybody,

I've only marginally kept up this 'cerise' thing, but it's looking to be another one of those troll/nutcase scenarios where one or more of 'us', the good guys, gets hurt. This time it's Abi. And Selene, too.

It's not like I've got a solution to stop this kind of stuff because you'd have to shut down the Forum and issue everyone a SmartCard after each and everyone has been vouched for by somebody in the trusted chain.

IMHO, it's pretty easy to get drawn into a con's game here on the Forum because we are good and decent people who give others the benefit of the doubt and take them for whom they claim they are. And we amongst ourselves might battle and disagree and hurt each other, but the cool thing about this little community seems to be that most of us eventually forgive each other and we will come together and act like real human beings when it comes to supporting someone who has been seriously wronged as Abi has been.

You gotta wonder if there is a sense of community and support in the World of Knowledge where the Master tells premies that they shouldn't come to programs to see their old friends, but the real and only reason is to see the Master. I know for me it was getting more and more sterile and strange.

Abi, it can be brutal here on the Forum - no doubt about that. I guess that the doors will always be open if you wish to come back and that's not just some Maharaji B.S. either.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 17:12:19 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: I think you know that answer Roger
Message:
You left around the same time I did. Did you see any sense of caring or community? I sure didn't.
Thanks for the support and I'm finally taking your advice and not emailing ANYONE I don't know or who someone else I trust can vouch for.
You know, Bazza's 'list' wasn't such a bad idea after all.
Even if I was probably on it , :)
Apologies to Bazza and again, best to Abi.
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:05:44 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Abi
Message:
Dear Abi

I totally agree with everything you said, especially:

'For me a valued space for healing has turned into a space for abuse. I found her comments about me being raped by an elephant totally vile. I also found the posted story about the raped girl and her comment that this should be recommended reading for the 'so-called victims here' foul. And the rest of it. I can't stomache it. I feel strongly that the forum serves an important consciousness raising function but I personally feel that a line has to be drawn with people like 'cerise'.'

I wish you well and support you in whatever decision you make. I have really appreciated your courage in coming forward. As I have said before what happened to you and Susan was a major factor in realizing I was in a cult and the level of abuse that goes on.

Sexual abuse, and the effects on someone PERSONALLY, is a very real thing for that individual. Sometimes I wonder if those who have not been abused like that can understand what a person goes through, it is not academic for them. When relived the natural instinct is survival. Semantics re censorship can mean nothing in the face of that.

To me this entire episode has exposed the full face of the dark side of the cult in all its deceit, corruptness and cruelty. Once again I am appalled that I belonged and participated in this by association.

I have not an ounce of respect for Maharaji left, and wholeheartedly pray that one day he is held accountable for the abuse that he allowed to be perpertrated upon sincere, simple, unsuspecting victims. I also have no allowance for those who support his cowardly behaviour, who will go to any lengths to cover it up. There is absolutely no excuse. People excusing these things because they think they are on the path to GOD and he is the master is total insanity, IMO.

Abi, my thoughts are with you, take care and much love.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:32:17 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Connie
Subject: Connie, thank you for saying that so strongly
Message:
Connie, you said: ''To me this entire episode has exposed the full face of the dark side of the cult in all its deceit, corruptness and cruelty. Once again I am appalled that I belonged and participated in this by association.''

I need to say here that the reason that I always read your posts is because I have talked to you enough off-forum to understand why and what you are saying. And I feel that you understood a bit of what I speculated was going on.

None of my hunches may be right but I do know and so do you that there is an inner ''business'' circle (including Rev Moonbeam's family and the Malibu Mob or the PAMs as they are called on EPO) that regards the church-ladies as the stupid cult members. The church-ladies will not post here. They are mostly too timid.

The only premies who would post here are bongos (there have been a few) and the ''inner circle'' or questioning premies. The latest troll could simply be a bongo but the propaganda was quite bureaucratic and totalitarianly chilling.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:27:22 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: You can come back later
Message:
This is very unfortunate that you would leave in this way, tho I understand completely. This is always the problem with an 'open society'. What do you do with the abusive ones? I think Cerise was allowed too much and shown more generosity than 'she' deserved. I will be ignoring her from now on.
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:12:58 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Thanks to you too Abi...
Message:
Don't stay away too long. If it needs saying again (and I hope it doesn't) your courage and company and pure dead brill humour have been a vital spark on the forum of late, and I hope this middle-aged, probably ex-pat Brit Australian male calling itself 'cerise' (wouldn't be surprised if it were Catweasel-by-proxy) finds its own proper home on the gag-a-minute ELK site and fucks off forever.

My own temporary forum exit is also partly to do with the cerise thing - not because of anything said but I realised I have better things to do with my brain than engage with fuckwits who seem to lack the most basic levels of human empathy. Who will 'apologise' (only when the FA makes them) in a way that tastes like venom. God, I don't blame you at all Abi. Can't even imagine the effects of that horrible post you got.

Take a break. Come back. Remember there are some good people here. Good luck with the Jagdeo letter.
Best,
Nige

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:51:38 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Christ! Wouldn't you know it?
Message:
So it turns out that the most charming, fun-loving, self-proclaimed cutie, who just happens to think I'm pretty cool (ahem, ahem!) is a fucking troll! Christ! Why me?

Abi,

I want to say stuff like 'you're the greatest, everyone adores you madly here' and all that shit but I don't know that you want or need to hear that. It's all true, by the way. But anyway ...

I can't quite wrap my mind about just how bad 'Cerises' bullshit was. It was bad, I know that much. Bad and completely indefensible. But, beyond that, I have a hard time guaging the harm. I know it's there but, to be honest, I'd just be guessing if I said I even thought I understood.

However -- and here's the fun part -- because I respect you as I do, I'm content to just let you explain that for me. You say it's intolerable, that's good enough for me. You're my friend, this Cerise isn't. You I trust, she I don't think even exists.

Am I rambling? Am I in my everything-is-a-question phase? Well, I'm tired. Nap time.

One thing I'd bet on, though, is that this Cerise, whatever he/she or it is, knows they went too far. The moral outrage in your support is so justified, I'd think that if Cerise happens to be an acutal person, this is one time she might wish she wasn't.

Whatever you choose, stay, go, stay a bit, go a bit, whatever, you're the man! I'm crashing for a bit but I'll email you later ....

Namaste,

Jim
Only a Real Person's Friend

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:38:56 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks Jim
Message:
moved me to tears.
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:13:42 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, that was a great post
Message:
Thanks & much appreciated. (LOL, the roof is going to fall in now, but oh well!)
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:53:30 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Abi please
Message:
don't leave the forum .

I second what the FA said about feeling low and I too feel somehow responsible for your decision to leave by my calls for no censorship.

If you leave and 'cerise' stays then that would be an out and out travesty.

I have found your posts moving,humourous,courageous,intelligent and interesting.The posts from 'cerise' are a load of shite. Fake.

If 'cerise' stays I for one will not engage with her though I know she'll try to taunt me into doing so.I also know she'll try to seduce others into engagaing with her.

Right now, I know you're probably feeling upset and angry about the whole thing and I don't blame you. However I hope over the next few days you'll reconsider your position and decide to continue posting.

You are a valued and important contributor.

Best Wishes

Dermot.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:43:16 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: Abi
Subject: Abi, please....
Message:
... Don't go! By all means take a break if you need to, I do that from time to time myself. But don't leave for good.

You have a credibility here that the 'Cerise' creature (a girl? a woman? male or felmale? a committee? an individual with 10 personalities?) will ever have.

It's the goal of the divine borg-trolls to upset people, and keep people from posting. Don't let them win. Your credibility is needed here.

I agree with Pat: ''Please reconsider and know that you have strong allies here who will come to your assistance.''

If the ''Cerise'' creature is going to be abusive, I don't see why it shoudn't be blocked, the same way mice are kept out of kitchens and pantries.

- Chuck, your allie and friend.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:29:38 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Don't let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch
Message:
Abi, I totally support you in your efforts and your contributions here, and it would be a great travesty if you left for good.

You have many important things to say and share here and I hope that you will take a break and reconsider your decision and come back later.

One of the best therapys for anyone is sharing and letting out the truth of their experience. The forum is still a very good place to do that in spite of one or two rotten apples here. There will always be a cerise in the crowd somewhere, in the minority and not deserving of relinguishing our power to them. We gave our power away to one jerk, lets not do that anymore. You leave she wins, this is not right.

You have more people here who love and support you than those few who demean you.

Take some time for yourself to heal, put please don't disappear completely

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:42:29 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: My part in this
Message:
I just want to say that having possibly contributed to Abi's decision by not blocking Cerise, I feel really low at the moment. I had already had an email exchange with Abi about Cerise where she was supportive, and she also emailed me with her decision as well as posting here.

All I can say is that I'm really sorry about this, and I hope that when Abi feels stronger she will post here again.

Forum Admin

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:20:43 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Hey, FA
Message:
I am sorry that you feel so bad - I am sure it wasn't Abi's intention (and I think you know that too). I felt that you were trying to be fair in what you did, and although I do think it might be helpful to put some new rules into place, I, for one, do not expect you to be omniscient.

Take care,
Katei

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:09:51 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Borg Troll Patrol
Message:
FA: I hope you have people whose hunches you can trust to call your attention to Borg Trolls. I know I fly off the handle too quickly and cannot be trusted to make sensible evaluations but I am sure there are other trusted regulars here who could email you when they think they have spotted satsang grenades and revisionist molotov cocktails.

NO REV MOONBEAM'S PROPAGANDA HERE PLEASE

Unless it is so foolish that it discredits them and provides a few laughs.

A simple Borg Troll/Divine Clone Alert should be sufficient to warn people not to respond and simply to ignore them.

Thanks for your work.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:57:37 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: bshaw8@bellsouth.net
To: Forum Admin
Subject: My fear
Message:
Is that if we allow Abi to be harrassed out of the forum like this it might encourage even more flaming and harrassment by premie trolls with the same objective.

I say sling the brat (cerise) out on her arse.

bazza

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:45:58 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Agreed. Catweasel too..
Message:
In the thread that precipatated Abi's understandable departure, Catweasel (apparently cerise's only bedmate hereabouts - just as he was raina's best pal) posted to Abi a one-liner 'You sound uptight', in a context I found offensive. Ok, when doesn't Catweasel sound offensive..?

But in present circumstances, may I yet again request Catweasel be permanently blocked. He isn't here to discuss Maharaji. His motives are the same as cerise's, and I'm suprised given his posting record over three years and previous bans for implicit threats to new ex-premies he is still tolerated.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 02:30:00 (GMT)
From: roc
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Correction for the record, Nige
Message:
Mili was raina's best pal, not Catweasel.
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:21:08 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: roc
Subject: Thanks for email - no problem (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:04:54 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: roc
Subject: And who the fuck are you?
Message:
As if anyone cared...
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 02:17:18 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: I agree. Cat has no business here AT ALL!
Message:
The first couple of years .... okay. But this is ridiculous!
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:21:48 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: On AG Cat and Oliver both wear cerise a lot NT
Message:
k
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:35:46 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: What do you mean by 'wear', Pat? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:38:29 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: What do you mean by 'wear'
Message:
Cat said it was a 'significant' color in 'circles both he and Oliver frequented'. I'm assuming he's talking about the racetrack?
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:47:26 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: I don't want to speculate but....
Message:
I thought it was one of Victoria's little camp IN jokes betwen fellow borg trolls. She wants to be discovered in a way because she is so proud of her deception. This a real twisted bitch (just like Twiz/Oliver) and I know of what I speak.

Right now it's a hunch but Chuck will tell you that I am always the first one to smell a rat in the dark. I'll scream and shout bogeyman and he'll say where because he hasn't smelled it yet. The coolly and calmly he'll turn a flashlight on and see that it is a rat and he'll say it wasn't a bogeyman and I'll sayBUT it was soemthing and I saw it first. Just a hunch.

They could be bongos or the inner business circle with 30 years invested in the Rawat firm. A lot to lose. I smell a rat.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 04:13:06 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: I don't want to speculate but....
Message:
Hi Pat -
I've corresponded with Des/Twiz/Phil Garratt/Oliver on and off, and he has been diagnosed as manic-depressive - and, as he knows, I believe the diagnosis is correct. The problem I have is that he appears to be (and I believe he is) a very nice person WHEN he is taking his meds. He doesn't like to take his meds because apparently it feels good to be manic - I don't know this personally, but have heard the same from other bipolar people. But he is not an evil person.

Anyway, I'd have the FA check the ISP's before pinning it on Des/Phil/Twiz/Oliver. He's a pretty easy target (but not saying he couldn't have done it - or even that he exists, although I believe he does.)

Sigh... another person who needs Sir David's help line. It is very sad.

Oh, yeah, Des/Phil/Twiz/Oliver has K. But I don't think he's a 'current premie' - I think the PWK's in Oz think of him as a bongo.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 13:59:23 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: What the ozzies think
Message:
No we dont. We think he is ill at times and needs a bit of help.
Katie , we just are not like the Yanks or the Poms.I think you have seen enough of me to know when I'm telling you the truth.
All the best
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 17:07:02 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: What the ozzies think
Message:
Cat, I heard the 'bongo' thing from Phil himself, but it is hard to know what other people really think about you.

I don't think ozzies are THAT different, btw. Doesn't that depend more on the person that their nationality?

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 16:39:10 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: The 'respect' you show Katie is SOOOO CUTE!
Message:
Very hilarious, the way you try to keep taht one little candle of respect burning. Yes, you and Katie have a deep 'understanding', I'm sure.

What a laugh!

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 16:55:48 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Well, at least he doesn't think women over 30...
Message:
...should be euthanized. And he's not attempting to crawl into the laps of all the middle-aged men here :).

I can do without 'cute' for the moment.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 17:43:04 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: What the hell????????
Message:
What are you talking?

So do you like, Cat, Katie? Tell me about it.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 17:55:06 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Don't you get it?
Message:
If you don't, I can't explain it - and that makes me even more depressed than I already am.

Cat is OK, but I don't think he contributes much, if anything, to this forum. What bugs me is that he is capable of it, but chooses not to. That's his problem though.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 23:02:50 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: Don't you get it?
Message:
Katie,

First, just to be sure, you did realize the 'cuteness' I was referring to was Cat's not yours? The subject line could be read otherwise but that was my intent.

But to say that 'Cat is OK' is an insult to a whole lot of your supposed 'friends' here. Can't like everyone, Katie. Lking then becomes meaningless, doesn't it? Cat is an asshole and he loves being one. I'm amazed that you'd even wonder aloud about how much he 'contributes' here. As IF it was an issue, as IF he contributed anything.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 18:50:36 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: I give up, Katie
Message:
You said ''Cat is OK, but I don't think he contributes much, if anything, to this forum. What bugs me is that he is capable of it, but chooses not to. That's his problem though.''

You're kidding right? It's not his problem. He is our problem. I don't know what sort of game you are playing but it is too subtle for me. Email?

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 18:59:46 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Sorry for being cryptic
Message:
I've been typing for days on something else - guess my keyboard fingers are tired. Here's what I mean - Catweasel is quite capable of sincere discussion - but does it only when he wants to. When he posts on this forum, he almost always prefers to take the 'low road' (flames, etc.)

When I said 'That's his problem' - I mean that if he gets blocked for this flaming posts, he has only himself to blame. He knows I feel this way.

Hope this is more understandable.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 05:01:49 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: Katie, you're too trusting for your own good NT
Message:
h
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 05:06:03 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: That's what you think:)! NT
Message:
It took me a long time to get this way!
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 08:07:04 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: Katie H
Subject: Too cryptic for me - email?
Message:
l
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 16:59:39 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: just joking-many people have told me otherwise(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:46:01 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Is Catweasel a David Smith clone? Both nuts NT
Message:
j
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:19:26 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: I second that, Bazza! NT
Message:
j
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:12:25 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Goodbye and thanks
Message:
Hi Abi,

I've not spent much time on the forum lately. I glance in from time to time, but as you know, I've been busy at work and Dot and I are looking for somewhere to live again. What free time I've had, I've been spending writing Part 2 of my Journey, 'No More Mr Nice Guy.'

Anyway, I've missed most of what sounds like obnoxious, immature, vindictive shite from cerise (may she choke on her own words). But your post did prompt me to mention that by far the nastiest posts we get here are from premies.

They call the Forum 'hate filled', but in reality, the really nasty stuff always comes from them. It's incredible that these people claim to be in touch with the source of inner peace.

People like cerise are seriously screwed up Abs. Maybe a cult is the best place for them, and maybe, when everyone has woken up and walked away, Captain Rawat will be left with the handful of devotees he deserves. Sick little creeps like cerise.

Take it easy. Talk soon.

love from anth.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 22:38:09 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: No more Mr. Nice guy
Message:
Anth:

Looking forward to Journey part 2 (I should talk, I haven't even written part 1 of my own). The reason is because I couldn't believe how different the voice of AJW was who wrote the Journey was from the voice of the AJW that was posting on this forum. It was almost hard to square the two personalities. But then I remember when I read the early Dettmers posts they were so different from the later Dettmers posts that it also sounded like some other guy.

Long way of saying you've come a long way, though I immensely enjoyed your journey and stated up WAY too late several months ago reading it.

Yeah, no more Mr. Nice Guy! I look forward to reading it.

Cheers --f

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:31:42 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Goodbye and thanks
Message:
Dear Abi,
I won't ask you to re-consider, because those posts (and other gratuitous comments) bothered me very much as well. I understand that you need to take a break - although I really hope it's only a break and not permanent.

I agree with Susan that there should be some kind of rule in place for situations like this, although I am not exactly sure what it should be. Certainly it shouldn't be allowed to go on after even ONE abusive post. I'm just sorry you and she have had to endure these creepy posts after having been brave enough to talk about the subject in the first place. I think it's important that the forum be a reasonably safe place for the people who have already found it. And I doubt that new posters who can't even understand that much will ever get much benefit from posting here.

You are correct that it's a complex issue - I just wish we had done something about this before this happened to you.

Love,
Katie Haering

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:07:31 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Abi, please don't let anyone drive you away
Message:
cerise is a figment of the imagination of the businessmen of the cult as are several other premie saboteurs. They want to drive you away. They will have succeeded in their goal if you leave. Please be brave and stay and I will completely back you up if you request that these posters be blocked. There is no space for cult saboteurs on FV.

It sometimes takes a while to figure out who they are but as soon as they have you will see that I will call attention to them as I did long before anyone else. I'm just sorry that I did not personally warn you as it is easy for single psots tpo get lost. But I followed her all the way and knew exactly what was going on.

I can completely understand that you do not wan to be subjected to EV insults and revisionism at your expense. I just do not want to see you being driven away from something that you enjoy.
Please reconsider and know that you have strong allies here who will come to your assistance.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:32:52 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: That's more like it Pat ... please read, Abi
Message:
I was hesitant to post what might have been yet another confrontative post for Abi to deal with - at a difficult time for her. But somehow you've managed to put into words very much what I wanted to say without being abrasive (which I know I can be).

I've just been looking up the meaning of the word troll (which I thought was something to be found in the Hall of the Mountain King) - although I'm not 100% convinced ol' cherry-faced Cerise is one, ... yet.

However, I WAS suspicious that she didn't take objection to being called a 'premie kid' - and most 22-year olds I know would NOT appreciate being called a 'kid'.


Anyway, for anyone else who wasn't familiar with the word, there's several meanings to 'troll', including

troll, verb. Forms: 4­5 trolle, 6 trol, 6­7 trole, 6­ troll; 5­9 trowl, 6­7 trowle, troule, 6­8 troul; 5­9 trull, (5 trulle); 8­9 Sc. trow.
[A word or series of words of uncertain origin, and of which all the senses do not go closely together. It is generally derived from OF. troller, a hunting term, ‘to quest, to go in quest of game, without purpose’, of which Godefroy has one instance. This survives in mod.French (see Littré). Godefroy has also one example of traller, in Littré trôler ‘to lead or walk in all directions indiscriminately, to run here and there, to run about, ramble’. These may well be the same word, and trôler is by many referred to Ger. trollen ‘to roll’, though the senses are not the same. Both senses are found in English, but the word has also other senses not found in German or French.]
I. 1. intr. To move or walk about or to and fro; to ramble, saunter, stroll, ‘roll’; spec. (slang) of a homosexual: to walk the streets, or ‘cruise’, in search of a sexual encounter; cf. sense 13.


also:

troll , noun .2 Also trold, trolle. See also trow n.4
[a. ONorse and Swed. troll, Da. trold (whence Da. trylla, trylde, Sw. trolla to charm, bewitch, ON. trolldómr witchcraft).
(Adopted in English from Scandinavian in the middle of the 19th c.; but in Shetland and Orkney, where the form is now trow (in 1616 troll), it has survived from the Norse dialect formerly spoken there.)]
a. In Scandinavian mythology, One of a race of supernatural beings formerly conceived as giants, now, in Denmark and Sweden, as dwarfs or imps, supposed to inhabit caves or subterranean dwellings: see quotations, and cf. trow n.4

(all examples from the OED).

... and there's also the anglers' meaning of to troll as well.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:26:39 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: cq
Subject: Don't forget the most important definition of...
Message:
... a troll, in this case an ''Internet Troll''.

If the Troll suceeds in doing nothing else than getting us to react to it, focus on it, talk about it, and if and what we should do about it, then it has succeeded. It's disrupted the forum by having us not talk about the things it's interupting us talking about. They have nothing to lose by doing that, especially when anonymous.

I could care less if the Borg-Trolls get banned. Anyone who feels that forum V isn't ''free'' enough is welcome to go to the ''Anything Goes'' forum, where indeed, Anything Goes. It's a perfect example of a completly free, unmoderated forumn where complete freedom of speech exists. Some people like anarchy.

I am not completely knocking the ''Anything Goes'' forum, I'm glad it's there. It's a great contrast to forum V, and there are even some good threads over there sometimes. It also shows that ANYONE who wants to do their own forum is welcome to do so.

We block mice, rats, and other vermine from our kitchens, for good reason. Their germs and droppings contaminate our food, and damage our health. The anonyomous Borg-Trolls do the same thing here, I don't feel overy concerned about protecting their antics, like what they have been doing to Abi.

- Chuck, who right now tends to see it like Katie H. does in her post below this one.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 22:15:26 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: I know y'all mean well, but a few comments
Message:
I am not sure if you completely understand this situation. Suppose you posted something in your Journey entry that was very private and extremely hard for you to talk about - and you SAID it was a sensitive issue that still bothered you. Suppose someone new came onto the forum and deliberately threw what you revealed into your face in a cruel and insentive way.

I've seen this happen to other people on the forum who revealed personal details here. Basically what was said to them is 'you should have talked about such personal things on here'. That's OK for non-cult-related things, I guess (I still don't like it), but Abi and Susan revealed things about themselves which I am guessing they did NOT want to make public. They did this to help other people. And frankly, I think that because they have done this, there should be no tolerance of anyone prying, 'joking', trying to get them upset, around the issue of child sexual abuse. (It also upsets a lot of other people here, not just Abi and Susan.)

As Susan said:
I want to let you all know what non anonymous abuse victims go through when deciding to tell our names and our experiences. The fear some crack pot will come and hurt us. Having to deal with perverts posting who want to hear more 'details'. And people like 'cerise' who for all I know has some expertise in how to post things that will make victims relive their abuse.

It really doesn't help to say 'that person is just a troll'. OF COURSE, they are a troll. But I've known several people who quit other forums because of trolls because they just didn't feel all right about posting there any more after someone said something horrible to them. It's easier to say 'don't let it get to you' than to put it into practice.

IMHO, and I know this is probably controversial, posts like these should be deleted and the person posting them should be blocked immediately. Even if, like Cerise, they claim they 'couldn't help it'. Let THEM deal with being blocked, rather than forcing their targets to deal with their posts.

JMHO, as always -
Katie

I want to let you all know what non anonymous abuse victims go through when
deciding to tell our names and our experiences. The fear some crack pot will come and
hurt us. Having to deal with perverts posting who want to hear more 'details'. And
people like 'cerise' who for all I know has some expertise in how to post things that will
make victims relive their abuse.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 21:15:03 (GMT)
From: carol
Email: None
To: Katie H.
Subject: I agree Katie. I am catching up. I appreciate that
Message:
you are so vigilant at catching these things. I don't know what to add, except that I also have shared things that were very personal and I got your support then, too. I have come around to a point where I really don't feel that I am vulnerable to re-victimization, but I also feel protective of those of us who could be hurt.

It is risky for people to reveal much in this forum but it is a known risk. Sometimes I have put myself purposely in the line of fire, so to speak, to gain courage and perspective on my own self understanding. I try to find what good can come out of my experiences. Finding good in a bad experience does not mean that people who do bad things are relieved of responsibility.

We may gain from any adversity a stronger sense of compassion and a determination to protect the innocent.
Carol

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 18:51:12 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Katie H.
Subject: I know y'all mean well, but a few comments
Message:
Hi Katie,

I freely admit that I don't completely understand the situation. One minute it seemed that a strong, bright young lady was on the forum, trying to charm all and sundry (and almost succeeding) with her tales of life as a 'premie-kid', the next minute she (if she was a she? who knows?) shows herself up to be either totally insensitive or a deliberate deceiver who's winding up and attempting to hurt an ex-premie who's presence here is more important than my own (IMO). What's going on?

One thing I do know for sure, and that's this - Abi has had the courage to reveal in public what happened to her, and in doing so she has shown a lot of people that there was a lot more to the cult than we thought. Far from being all 'peace and light', there were some pretty damnably sinister things - power trips, abuse trips, you name it - going on behind the scenes. I think all exes would thank her for helping to reveal the truth behind mask, unpleasant though the revelations might be. And though I might not have been very vocal in my support of her and the particularly difficult predicament/legacy that her experience with the cult has led to, my sentiments are nonetheless with her. In my book, fair play means a lot.

But fair play isn't just for one sector of any group. If we want others to play fair with us, we have at least be willing to play fair with them. And that goes for both 'sides'. Cerise may have been foolish and insensitive, or she may have been wilful in wanting to hurt, but the point is - how can we tell?

The fact that I don't have access to the post that caused the offense makes it even harder for me to come to a conclusion and to answer the question: 'what's really going on here?'. At the moment, I could either bow to the general consensus of people who have decided that the person posting as Cerise was an imposter. But I'd prefer to able to make up my own mind, one way or the other. Unfortunately the Forum's censorship policy makes it impossible for me to judge fairly, since I'm prevented from reading the post in question.

.
.
.
One thing's for sure - if the Forum has been targetted by a 'troll', that troll must be particularly stupid.

Just what do they think people are going to think of their tactics? Hardly an advertisement for truth and decency are they?

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:56:32 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Katie H.
Subject: Ditto! Amen! Thank you for saying that -NT
Message:
g
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 02:17:24 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Thanks Pat - I was afraid you'd be offended! (nt)
Message:
(nt)
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:17:30 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: I yelled and screamed bloody murder
Message:
I know I went about it the wrong way attacking the troll but I was just posting my hunches and trying to alert people before they took it seriously. I tried to warn but FA decided I had gone too far and deleted my last alert.

I'm thinking of putting together an email tree for divine borg troll alerts instead of jumping up and down shouting all over FV the way I did.

I was once gay-bashed and that's the closest that I felt violated, cursed and wished dead. Chuck nearly died when I came home half dead with my nose near my ear. Plastic surgery fixed that but I felt wounded for years afterwards and even wanted to get a gun and I hate guns.

I once was gang-raped when I was a teen and I had to put it out of my mind and never deal with it and I never have and probably never will but I do know that under the jokes that I've told about it through the years it caused some awful damage for a long time.

Abi and Susan have stuck their necks out further than most of us and need to be protected. It's common decency and civility that is at stake.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:26:27 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: I yelled and screamed bloody murder
Message:
Hey Pat (we do say 'hey' here instead of 'hi',

I don't know if you went about it the wrong way. It does help to e-mail the FA, which I didn't do either. It is a tough call for anyone to make. And thanks for agreeing with me that Abi and Susan need to be protected - as much as we can.

I'm horrified to hear the stories about the gay-bashing and the gang rape (although if you can talk about it here, you have dealt with it at least a bit. At least you have learned to live 'around' it). I know what you mean about getting a gun - I hate guns too, but I was once stalked by a guy, and I felt the same way. Fortunately I have a little brother who, despite, his other failings, would love to shoot up the whole town I live in - and by telling people that, I was able to get someone to PAY ATTENTION. (They don't listen to women much around here!)

Anyway, thanks, Pat -
love you (and we were just talking about you tonight and agreed that you've made the forum a nicer place - for everyone but trolls, that is!),
Katie

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 22:16:51 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: all
Subject: BTW, that is a quote from Susan at the end (nt)
Message:
Sorry, I screwed up.
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:39:33 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: I totally support and empathize with you.LOVE (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 17:20:22 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: sylviecyn@yahoo.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Everyone
Message:
I know we all want Abi to stay. But she's been revictimized and I understand her need to leave or at least take a break. Now she has to go and recover from this. Understand, it's very difficult, this healing stuff.

She's been hurt again! Shit! Again!

Abi, I hope you recover from this and come back when you can.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 17:27:01 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: you are right and another important point
Message:
one reason this site is healing is that people responded with outrage about Jagdeo.

I think blocking people who make comments that reabuse someone like Abi would be appropriate and make us different from the cult we emerged from.

Having people stand up for what is right and what is wrong make us different from the cult we all came from.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 21:12:32 (GMT)
From: lesley
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: totally, strongly, passionately agree, Susan, nt
Message:
xox
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:35:23 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: It's a Moral Issue....
Message:
I agree, Susan. This goes beyond the 1st Amendment or who gets to post here.

In this case, it's an issue of morality vs. evil. Evil is a strong word. Given all that's been posted in the past months, I feel as if we have to take a stand against this abusiveness toward us by interlopers.

Phew, I've got to take a break! Later...

Hope you're okay, too, Susan, email me if you'd like,
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 17:13:41 (GMT)
From: Loaf - Please stay Abs,
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: I havnt read ANY of Cerise's posts since ....
Message:
I read the upsetting one - and feel that too much time and effort is spent trying to make sense of hurtful things.....

You have made many friends here - and I know that we all wish you all the very best in your life. But I would be sad to feel that you were being forced out by any sense of 'collective' fascination or credence given to Cerise - I for one am not part of that discussion.

As my dear old Uncle Stan (99) says.. 'God bless'

(It sounds so much better coming from him !)

Love to you

Loaf

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 17:12:58 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: I forgot to say please, please reconsider! n/t
Message:
pleez
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 17:08:43 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: notinherent@yahoo.com
To: Abi
Subject: Thanks to you
Message:
Abi, to quote your own post, the same is true of you:

I respect the altruism here, the truth telling, the courage, the brave intelligence, the humour which has had me laughing for ages afterwards. It's been very cathartic. You are all very inspiring people. You've been like a wonderful ... sister.

I will miss YOU here, and I agree that the cerises of the net should not be allowed to post here, as you may have seen in my posts supporting the FAs. But I am also only one voice. I don't like seeing anyone abused, and frankly those threads are just a waste of time. Total free speech is Usenet, and I stopped posting in Usenet newsgroups years ago because it was so disrespectful and rough. The bottom line was that even if I could refrain from taking offense at comments made by mean idiots, I had to wade through so much cr*p it was a waste of my time. I'm a bit of a liberal and a bit of an anarchist, but I'm too complicated of a person to be one thing, and that type of free speech is for other people. I know that is subjective, but that's my 2 cents on that issue.

If you want to try a gentler, password protected forum, I would suggest the following information for which there is also a link on the EPO website:

Recent Exes Forum
Recent Exes is a flame-free and password-protected forum dedicated to being a safe environment offering support for those recently exiting Maharaji's cult, or those who may have left long ago but still want to discuss the effects of being in a cult. If you are interested in joining, you can email to the Recent Exes forum administrator at this address: recentexes@yahoo.com

Kind wishes to you in your journeys and please stay in touch with us. If you would like my e-mail address it is above.

Francesca

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:31:31 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Abi so sorry you feel like you need to leave
Message:
As Francesca said, the recent exes site might be a good place for you to post, if you feel to anytime. It is very gentle and as F says, flame free. In my recent posts to FA i said i could not make up my mind about the censorship issue. But your post has made up my mind. This site is primarily for recovering exes, not for premies. I agree with cq (in above thread) that maybe there is a place for a different forum where premies can interact with exes and those of us who feel like it could visit there and engage with them. Hope you keep safe and sending you my love, Moldy
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:16:57 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: Abi doesn't HAVE to leave
Message:
... and you seem to have misinterpreted my proposal (possibly my fault for not deliberating more fully on it).

Abi may chose to leave, of her own free will. Then again, when she realises that's just what the character who's been posting as 'cerise' (meaning 'cherry'?) could WANT, ....???

Well, if cerise is a troll/plant, and Abi's ever wanted to give full vent to all those emotions that she's never had the chance to confront Jadgeo with ... perhaps Abi might look on this as an opportunity to take full advantage of.

(whether on a very public forum such as this or not is entirely up to her, but either way, it'd be a deciding factor in the reclaiming of her sense of self-esteem).

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 17:00:23 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: I am upset about this
Message:
Abi is a valuable presence here. Her bravery has done as much to expose EV and the Guru as anyone else here. She found the site healing.

I emailed the FA right away after the 'elephant' thing and asked that 'cerise' be banned. I was told 'she' had not broken any rules. I accepted it. But my gut was screaming NO...there should be a rule.

A rule against terrorizing people who were once victims of cult pedophiles.

I want to let you all know what non anonymous abuse victims go through when deciding to tell our names and our experiences. The fear some crack pot will come and hurt us. Having to deal with perverts posting who want to hear more 'details'. And people like 'cerise' who for all I know has some expertise in how to post things that will make victims relive their abuse.

I think the FA was just trying to be fair. Certainly, Dermot was screaming bloody murder on the other side of the issue. But I think there should be a rule against this sort of verbal abuse.

I have felt SO much better since Abi has been posting. She adds so much because she genuinely was a child of premies and grew up in our former cult. I also tremendously admire her bravery for posting her story which was exponentially more difficult to tell publicly than my own was.

Isn't it interesting that everytime Abi becomes a regular here some vicious creep attacks her and scares her away. I am sure EV and Rawat could not be more delighted.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:21:09 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: I am upset about this
Message:
yep I'm upset too. I don't want Abi to go and couldn't give a shit about 'cerise'.

My screaming bloody murder was about the issue of censorsip which I know is not an easy one.....and the more I think about it the more complex it is.

That in no way implies I approve of the way 'cerise' treated Abi.....frankly it disgusted me.

In my defence I could say that when the majority here were being entranced and enchanted by 'cerise' I pointed out what a fake shit 'she' was.

All my sympathy and empathy is with you and Abi (cult victims in a way I wasn't.....yes I consider my a cult victim but your experiences in the cult had for more harmful effects than mine did) and I have no sympathy and empathy with 'cerise'.

Having an opinion on censorship is one thing....but seeing the effects of no censorship ( ie Abi leaving/shitface staying) is another.I wish it was a straightforward black and white issue but it isnt. When you make a general rule to deal with a specific case all sorts of future repurcussions are bound to happen and that has to be considered too. Of course the insult to Abi was balatantly horrible.....and in cases like that I'd have no objection to 'cerise' being warned very clearly that anything like that again and she'd be out.However ....if warnings started to be issued left right and centre ( depending ultimately on the FA'S moral stance )then it wouldnt be a very nice place to conduct free debate.

Anyway ....hope you're well

Best wishes

Dermot

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 04:37:45 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: I am not upset with you
Message:
I think all of us value free speech highly here, we once were not allowed to even listen to our own minds.

But I did think Cerise should have been blocked ASAP after the elephant comment. It was just too dirty and awful and cruel.

I felt Cerise was a con right away, but I think that about new people from time to time, as I am a suspicious sort, that is why I did not post to her, and sometimes I have been wrong.

I am not sure how we could word a rule for situations like this, but I think the FA should have discretionary power to block people for really hideous statements like that, it wasn't a threat, but it was vulgar gross and cruel. It is a judgement call, but I think most people would judge it unacceptable. I also do not harbor any anger toward the FA because I know he or she was just trying to follow the job description. I think in the job description there should be a leeway for blocking vulgar cruel sick posters...even though everyone's definition of such will vary.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 16:47:18 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: personal decisions
Message:
Hi Abi I am sorry to see that you decided to go. I personally don't read anything that has to do with Cerise or anything I feel has nothing to do with my process. This is the way I take care of myself to prevent those abusive situations.
I ask you to please reconsider your decision. Anyway I respect you and support. Please keep in touch. I am also new here so...
With love,
Mercedes
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 16:17:03 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Goodbye and thanks
Message:
Hate to see you go, I was just getting to know you.
The FA asked yesterday or the night before if we should get rid of that 'person' (I can barely even use that word) I said go ahead but then had second thoughts.
I'll support anyone who does decide we don't need this crap on here though.

I've seen a few ex's pitch fits when even the most obnoxious have been blocked from here. Who knows I may have even complained in the past but I don't think so, not when it got so bad that the FA had to make a decision like that.

I've been thinking I don't need to come on here and read this junk either. You were the one attacked but I can't stomach reading it either. And haven't today, although I started to until I saw it was the same shit different day in those threads.
Of course if we all stop posting the person has achieved their goal. I wish you could stay, but truthfully Abi I doubt I could in your situation. Yet I hope you reconsider, maybe after a few days break or something.
Best to you please stay in touch with us.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 16:58:59 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Goodbye and thanks
Message:
Abi,

I read your post, went offline to take a shower and wept. I know what it feels like to be revictimized. It's a gut wrenching experience, and I completely understand why this site does not feel safe to you with that germ of a person around.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

To those of you who have been fortunate not to have been sexually abused as a child, please understand how life damaging it is to the child and to the adult survivor. It is a soul murdering, childhood theft of innocence which can never be regained.

The bell can't be unrung. The innocence is lost. I can't impress enough how much wounding takes place within a child's psyche, heart and soul. Yes, we can heal and we do, but the process is torturous. This J**deo situation was particularly injurious to the children involved. Please try to educate yourselves and understand.

Abi, I was hoping that the folks here would rally behind you in support. I was hoping once the troll was discovered that it's attack on you would make it obvious that we must ignore it.

Abi, if you ever want to email me, please do at sylviecyn@yahoo.com. I can email you back from my private address. If you feel comfortable...no pressure. I'm so sorry this happened. I've learned a lot and I hope others will too.

Pamper yourself, I'm sending you sisterly hugs,
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 16:44:09 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Abi you must reconsider, please
Message:
Abi,

The value of your contibutions far outweigh the need for the forum to be open to absolutely everyone. This is a place of ideas and observations and should not be a place where someone can yell 'FIRE' and get away with it. The way the forum is set up any one can walk in and be abusive or disruptive but we don't have to let it happen twice. I say, after fair warning, block any one who can't behave within the extremely wide boundries here.

Case in point: I have organic farmer friends who marched in a peaceful WPO protest march in Seattle along with hundreds of farmers from around the world, only to be shut out and upstaged by a tiny group of so-called 'anarchists' (rebels without a clue) while the kinder-gentler police stood down. Granted we don't need a gestapo to run the forum, but a little house cleaning or pest control would be fine with me.

So, Abi if you must stay away, so be it but I will certainly miss your wit and wisdom. All the very best of success with your communication with M.

Richard

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:39:29 (GMT)
From: Babs
Email: ralphie@ralphiescafe.com
To: Abi
Subject: Block cerise. Support Abi.
Message:
We don't have to make perfect rules that will give exactly the right levels of freedom and protection to every individual until the end of time.

All we have to do is make this a safe space for Abi by getting rid of cerise.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 06:38:08 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: hot of the press 1
Message:
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 21:47:51 -0500
From: Rapid Communications Team Canada | Block Address | Add to Address Book
Reply-to: elanvitalcanada@sympatico.ca
Organisation: Elan Vital
To: Elan Vital
Subject: SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT


SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT
Maharaji himself has made a special promotional ad for Amaroo 2001. It is two minutes long, and will be aired as part of tomorrow's Satellite Broadcast (Sunday, March 25th), as well as future broadcasts. Also, it will be recorded to play back at your events and on your broadcasts to encourage people to come and enjoy Amaroo with Maharaji. It should replace the other ad you may have received from us.

The reason for this change is to provide more promotion for the Amaroo event. The Portland event is very supportive of Amaroo. Also the Portland event includes a substantial portion from the Portland aspirant meeting, so it will still be suitable for following up the Intro Broadcast of last week.

SATELLITE BROADCASTS

Bell Express Vu Messages
Bell Express Vu is not required to have the announcement regarding technical difficulties on the screen prior to the Broadcast. They only do this for our convenience. If someone else (another company, user ) is using the same station prior to our broadcast, a message will appear on the screen saying something like ‘Your smart card is not valid. This does not mean that there is a problem, and at correct time, the broadcast should start.

Technical Difficulties
If you notice any technical difficulties, the best way to report them is by FC directly to Michael Duhaney, or regular Email to: terrimichael@sympatico.ca Michael is reporting any technical problems to Bell Express Vu

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 06:44:02 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Michael Duhaney was fun, fun, fun
Message:
God that guy could not stop laughing! Jamaican transplant to Canada, lived with him in the Halifax ashram in the late 70's. He liked the girls but then he liked the guru. Tough choice then, huh Mike?

Anyway, Gail put me in touch with him a year or so ago. Nice to hear same old smiley voice. Too bad we couldn't really talk.

Say hi for me, EV Monitor.

By the way, maybe you should ask Michael about all the money he sent Satpal in the early 90s.

Just kidding! Really, the last thing I'd ever want to do is fuck something up, organization-wise for a good, honest cult member. No, it wasn't Michael at all. It was Linda Gross.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 06:39:21 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: hot of the press 2
Message:
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 12:39:01 -0500
From: Rapid Communications Team Canada | Block Address | Add to Address Book
Reply-to: elanvitalcanada@sympatico.ca
Organisation: Elan Vital
To: Elan Vital
Subject: Update on Smart Cards


The Smart Card will be a required event credential for the event in Amaroo, April 24-27.

Update on Smart Cards for use at Amaroo 2001

Many people have expressed concern that the Amaroo information material has mentioned March 1 as the deadline for applying for a Smart Card in order to receive a card in time for the event.

Since it is now after March 1, people who have not yet applied for a Smart Card may be wondering if it is too late to register for Amaroo or too late to apply for a Smart Card. The answer is that everyone who wants to attend Amaroo should register as soon as possible, regardless of whether or not they have received a Smart Card. Regarding applying for the Smart Card, please take into account the following information:

If it is before March 20, please continue to send in your Smart Card applications. While it is unlikely that we can mail your Smart Card prior to your leaving for Amaroo, we can at least print your card and have it available for you to pick up when you arrive at the gate at Amaroo. You will have a slight delay at the front gate in this case. Note: You will be able to have a picture taken and fill out a Smart Card application at the event in Portland, Oregon in March.
If it is March 20 or later, please go ahead and register for Amaroo, but do not send in your Smart Card application. We will have an office at the front gate at Amaroo at which you can have a picture taken and complete an application for a Smart Card. You will have a delay at the gate of perhaps 1-2 hours or more, due to the need to process your application and photo, and print and encode your card.
Click here to download a USA Smart Card application. Please send email to smartcardoffice@attglobal.net to request an application if you don’t live in the USA. Include the name of your country, so we can send you the correct forms.

Status of current Smart Card Applications:

We are processing applications just as fast as we can and expect that anyone that applied before March 1, 2001 will in fact receive their Smart Card in the mail before April 15, 2001. If you did apply before March 1, 2001 but do not receive your Smart Card before you leave for Amaroo don’t worry -- we will take care of you at the front gate at Amaroo.

As of 24 February, 2001 we have received 11,738 applications and have issued 11,163 Smart Cards worldwide.

Updating your contact information:

For those of you who have already applied for the Smart Card -- if your name, address or other contact information has changed since you applied, please send your updated information to smartcardoffice@attglobal.net.

With warm regards, The Smart Card Team

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:12:03 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: what a messs
Message:
And all for what? It doesn't sound too different from the old days when we stood in line for hours just to get into some hall.

I've often thought too, that the only reason M had DLM/EV improved on THAT was because we were such a spectacle sitting out there in those lines with all our lentils and rice cakes.

I remember being told it all changed because he cared for us and wanted to make it more convenient for us.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 07:21:15 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: emailed on March 25th - 'If after March 20th...'
Message:
We will have an office at the front gate at Amaroo at which you can have a picture taken and complete an application for a Smart Card.

Now that will be a very special and memorable experience I'm so sure. Be advised that in Portland, people WITH SmartCards had to wait up to 50 minutes to get in.

Élan Vital: Pointlessly pushing the envelope of thechnology until it fails since... well since Élan Vital was Divine Light Mission.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 09:44:14 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Long lines and photos in Amaroo
Message:
They're afraid one of us is going to show up -- especially Joe or Jim -- and security is going to be very tight. Massive inspection of smartcards is going to happen at the gate.

Will they have food trolleys to feed people while they wait???

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 16:12:54 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Or bug repellent and snake bite antidotes?
Message:
LOLOLOLOL!!!!

Oh yeah, they sound synchronized all right!

I can barely type, I'm still laughing too hard.

Synchronized....like the Montreal event I went to in '99.

Oh yeah, synchronized. Yup, I've seen their synchronization; goomraji should look that word up.

That term should be substituted by CHAOS, and not as in ''Get Smart!'' Or was it 'The Man from Uncle?'' LOLOLOL!

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 11:53:34 (GMT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Long lines and photos in Amaroo
Message:
Marrianne, its simple comfortable and easy to use. Swipe it and your in. You dont have one?
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 13:13:50 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: What with the gate
Message:
you guys keep talking about. Will it be closed at night. I just don't see how anyone want to stand their trying to control the ins and outs of 4500 people. What are yous, police or something? Reminds me of the crap years ago with all those self appointed pupet policemen 'lossers'. Are you planing some kind of independent state. Or will you be waiting for the flying sausage to come and save you. No sorry, rawat is going to creat this sheild of love and devotion around the peremitere so only he can get all the blow jobs. I can't belive you hang out with those guys, you sound more intelligent than that.
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 10:15:12 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: so they have 11,700 members who want cards.
Message:
globally. gee, and i remember when 20,000 would come to miami...
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 04:57:31 (GMT)
From: La-ex
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Pat C.Your vocabulary truly deserves an Oscar.
Message:
Pat-in reading over some old posts and the poll, I have to compliment you on some real 'gems' of yours that you have brought to the forum, such as:

1-'bhakti-juju'
2-'Industrial strength church ladies'
3-'He(M) is truly an embarrassment to all civilized, intelligent people.'
4-something about getting darshan from your dogs, which just cracked me up.

Also, your perspective on Indian culture, history and spirituality is awesome.
Have you considered writing a page, maybe with some of J-M's information, that would simply, but eloquently describe the evolution of M's brand of spirituality?

You have at times explained some of this in great detail, and I think it might be helpful to many people. YOu seem to have a perspective on many of the things that M has done wrong(not too hard these days...guess we all could write that part), and why.

Just wanted to say thanks for your humor and heart felt posts.

La-ex

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 02:33:14 (GMT)
From: Roy
Email: None
To: Pat/ Thelma/ your dogs
Subject: eloquence,humor and warmth - you go guy/gal! nt
Message:
z
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 16:28:11 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: La-ex
Subject: Pat C. deserves an Oscar - yeah baby!
Message:
And don't forget the scholarly succinct term = Maharajism

And his Guruvian slip: Exited Utterances

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:31:29 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: just tell him to wipe it clean after he's finished
Message:
Maharajism indeed!
.
.
.
.
(er, and why, pray tell, have all those would-be Gopis just fainted?)
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:27:17 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Or Patsy's ::) Urug....one of my favorites! NT
Message:
Patsy, Pat C.....snigger....
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 08:40:44 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: La-ex
Subject: hahaha or that recent one of his
Message:
about Rawat late at night in oz drunk on cognac and posting on this forum hahahah......hey pat where is that post?....it was quite recent but I cant find it....you were imagining cerise or catweazel or someone as really being.....oh hold on ....it was the imaginary email you got sent,,,that's it

A classic.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 07:41:05 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: La-ex
Subject: Aww, That's Very Sweet, La-ex
Message:
I know he's only been on here a short while, but I can scarcely remember the Forum without him! Patrick is indeed a gem of a contributor. How about this recent quote:

'I cannot believe that I actually listened to such unhealthy, mentally crippled drivel and told myself that I did not understand it because I was trying to figure it out with my MIND not my heart. . . . He is indeed evil. He wants the premies to be mentally ill, dependent, confused and frightened. Or perhaps it's just that he is such a sick alcoholic in a dazed state that he thinks everybody is paranoid and twisted like him. . . . Either way he is pure poison and his religion is the sickest, most atavistic, primitive garbage since Savanarola or the Salem witch hunts. '

Tell it like it is, Patrick!!

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 07:30:17 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: La-ex
Subject: Pat Conlon has my academy vote
Message:
A very good idea, if you have the time Pat, it would be an awesome contribution to place in the nuts and bolts section possibly.

So many of your posts and your history on the East Indian spiritualism particulary lead me through the minefield in my decision to break free from the master and the mania.

A very heartfelt thank you to a great contributor here on FV

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 08:35:23 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Bedazzled, Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered
Message:
Thank you La-ex, Brian and Joy. That is high praise coming from you whom I admire and respect. I am currently working on an essay debunking Knowledge which, after darshan and bahkti, seems to be the biggest bete-noir for fence-sitters. I am pleased that my words have entered FV's uncultivated vocabulary. True knowledge is free and benefits the giver and the receiver.

Joy and Francesca and Chuck and I have a mutual premie acquaintance, Margaret the psychic. Margaret once told me that Shakespeare was hovering over me and guiding me. I asked her if James Joyce, E.M. Forster, D.H. Lawrence and Aldous Huxley were also ready to root for me and she went silent before saying: ''Oh, yes, of course.'' I could see that she didn't know who I was talking about so it kind of deflated my confidence in her psychic abiltities but I thanked her for her kind wishes.

Just watched 10 minutes of the video of Bedazzled. It's on now but I'm only half watching. It sure has some new levels of meaning now that I have turned Judas. BTW I think Judas got a raw deal in the bible. Judas quite rightly worried about the money that was being wasted by Jesus on extravagant displays instead of on the poor. The messiah chided Judas and said; ''The poor are always with you but I am not.''

That is pure guruism and pure nonsense. I am not a Jesusite or believer in lords and masters of any description. He was as imperfect as everybody else and suffered from the similar problems to the current messiah, who once said that this time he would not be crucified.

When I say I believe in christian honesty and neighborliness, I mean I was born into an agnostic, ethical humanist world whose ideals are the basis of our liberal, democratic civilization based on the rule of law and common decency. I do not espouse any theology or dogma just civil behavior. I simply consider Jesus as a civilizing influence on society unlike Hitler but similar to Mozart and Lister.

Science and knowledge have taken us further into the realms of civilization and we are now in a position to be free of fear or superstition. We no longer need be bewitched, bothered and bewildered - the internet is here. It is also a very vulnerable medium. Apart from electricity, it also requires common decency to be a postive force.

I was going to send what follows only to my email contacts but decided not to enter into or attempt to create a conspiracy. My hunch is that FV is currently being trolled by a couple of synchronized clones. Conspiracies live and die in darkness. The way to defeat then is by being open and honest - and fearless, because the conspirators try hard to instill fear.

I haven't got proof and don't know who they are but they are very similar to people to whom I was introduced because of being a long-standing ''contributor'' and having some standing in the larger community. Elan Vital is mostly made up of sincere church-ladies like my friend, Danielle Fitzpatrick, the instructor. But there is an inner circle.

This inner circle also has a few loose-cannons like the people who I think are behind some of the molotov cocktail satsabgs of revisionism which have recently been posted. These posts are attempts to disrupt, introduce fear and suspicion, divide and conquer, spread propaganda and indulge in spin-doctoring and revisionism.

These posters may also be family or other close relations and even Rev Moonbeam himself but I doubt it. It is more than likely somebody who is loyal and close enough to be trusted to do what he/she/they think is right. Whoever it is, it is someone who depends on the Rawat religion business for a living or has something else to loose. At this level the organization is pure business. The cult only exists for the poor put-upon church-ladies.

Analyze the trolls' posts in light of attempts to sabotage and throw grenades of revisionism into FV in order that non-posting fence-sitters may be influenced (re-brainwashed) and regular timid posters intimidated.

The only way to combat this is to first recognize it as bait and then ignore it, ridicule it or otherwise try to take the darkness and heaviness out of it with lightness and confidence in the truth and lots of good humor. Let's have fun while we watch the last struggles of a dying voodoo cult killed by science and democracy.

I don't really care whether Rev Moon beam ''reforms'' or not as has been suggested by Patrick Wilson as I am not interested in lords, master, kings or queens. However he may go down in history if he starts a new tradition of the guru kissing the devotees feet.


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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:44:38 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Dedazzled
Message:
Pat, I don't necessarily believe that the trolls or troll blessed by EV. I feel confident however, that just like Mahatma Fakirinand aka Maxwell Silverhammer, this person or persons might just consider it their personal holy war. Having said all that, I trust your intuition if you feel the voices are similar to church ladies you know.

I agree totally about the Christ thing. I had a conversation with an ex-prem (now mostly Quaker) and her husband (mostly Jewish) where we were deconstructing the Haharaji myth (who coined that great term?). My friend's husband also mentioned that Jesus, Buddha or whoever also had hecka PR going for them. Over 2,000 years of spin control. The ideas that came out of it that are good can be useful -- otherwise, we have no need for living or dead messiahs.

Re Rawat recanting and repenting, 'twoud be nice, but it wouldn't change my relationship to him either. I left a long time ago. He's a fraud to me whether he admits it or not. The benefit of his repenting, and the reason why it would be a wonderful thing (but I'm not holding my breath) would be for current and future premies. Of course, there'd be a lot of harm at first, because getting that type of information laid on you after you'd done a life of serving him could be psychologically shattering.

Win one, lose one. Great post.

Love --f

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:34:40 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Bedazzled, Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered
Message:
well, that's several threads worth of topic you managed to get into one acceptance speech!

re. the Judas deal. A lot of people don't realise that the whole of modern Xtian teachings depend entirely on Judas. No kiss = no crucifix, no need for forgiveness, no need for salvation.

[personally I question whether JC actually existed - research seems to be finding parallels with far more ancient mythologies that were acquired and synthesised into what we know as 'Christianity'. - see http://www.truthbeknown.com/ for a run-down on the hypothesis.]

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 17:46:59 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Love you Pat. Hugs to you, Mercedes (nt)
Message:
hugs
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 15:57:03 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Oh no!!!
Message:
Pat Conlon wrote:

'it is someone who depends on the Rawat religion business for a living or has something else to loose'

Last night I watchned for the Nth time the film, 'The Invasion Of The Body Snatchers' and just when you think someone's OK, they suddenly turn out to be one of them.

How many of them are there here? Are you all premies? Am I the only one left? Or am I gonna loose it too?

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:56:13 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: ... and there's always more of them to come -
Message:
If Moses supposes his toeses are roses, he loses.

hose

nose

pose

rose

... lose?

(English - we made it difficult just to confuse the bloody foreigners!)

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:33:13 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Sir Dave and Pat
Subject: even soo it was GREAT
Message:
Don't know what it is with that loose/lose word.
Thanks Pat you spoke for me and many others too I'll bet.
That one's a keeper, I'm glad you didn't send it to just a few people, it's made feel better today about Abi.
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 15:27:01 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: ***BEST OF...***^^^^^NOMINATION..!^^^^^
Message:
Pat,

Your post is an Oscar winner! Loved it.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 20:20:42 (GMT)
From: Thelma
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: The Thunderstealing Bitch's Swan Song - looser!
Message:
Kisses, kisses, smooches, arms wide open, smiles, tears, graps oscar to silicone tits.

I just want to say thanks to my producer, Brian, and his lovely wife, Katie H, and the invisible anonymous FAs without whose decation we would not have been able to keep the show on the road.

Also thanks to the academy old-timers: Jim, Joe, Marianne, Roger, Sir Dave, Patrick W, Katie D, Cynthia, Selene, JHB, Anth, Bin Liner, Loaf, Such, cq, La-ex, Joy, Nigel, Tim G, Hamzen, Gerry, Salam, John T, Helen and I just hope I'm not forgetting anybody.

I also wish to thank the rising stars: Dettmers, Brian Smith, Richard, Donner, Babs, Connie, Mercedes, Moldy, Lesley, Kelly, Tony (Aussie,) Dermot, Bazza and again I hope I didn't leave anybody out.

I wish to extend a special thanks to Francesca who's patience with me (in my fence-sitiing days) helped me so much and also my husbands, Chuck and Andy for watching an old hippie Hindu going through many contortions to arrive at the semblance of sanity I am now blessed with.

Sorry, guys, I just couldn't resist bringing back the old Bitch for a swan song althought she has been retired for lack of space among the newcomers on FV.

Oh, and I forgot: thanks Pauline, TED Farkel, and all you other premies trolls who shall remain nameless as befits your lurking in the dark.

Come out and play in the light.

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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 00:28:13 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Thelma
Subject: Thelma, don't even think of retiring -:}} (nt)
Message:
zz
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Date: Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 01:07:42 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Thelma had to go because too many newcomers
Message:
Dermot, I could have sworn that I saw you post yesterday that you were going to work for week and not post until the weekend in case you ended up in a cardboard box begging with a styrofoam coffee cup. I'm glad you didn't. I say that everyday - to myself.

Thelma had to be retired because I felt too many newcomers were arriving and it might be confusing for them. I never really know what the fuck she is going to say until I've posted it and immediately regret it. Anyway her silicone tits started drying out and get crumbly.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 02:41:56 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Non exit counselling
Message:
Thanks to two Michaels, this is now a reality. It is at least a safety net and I feel happier with it being in place.

Help when it is most needed

This page is of course part of The Great Worldwide Linkup site.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 19:58:01 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: er, just a small, but very important point, Dave
Message:
... kudos to you for setting it up, but shouldn't you state very clearly that none of the three people mentioned there are qualified counsellors?

Perhaps 'transition advisors' (or somesuch dreadful term) might be preferable.

Or how about 'sympathetic ex-premies' even?

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 23:42:45 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: er, just a small, but very important point, Dave
Message:
Hmmm, 'transition advisors', I like it. Perhaps you should work for Elan Vital and help them with their literature.

The reason why I've not put any label on it and also the reason why it's not exit counselling is because, suppose there was an ex-premie who needed help, he/she wouldn't fit into the box of someone needing exit councelling.

Alternatively, a premie might need some help but not particularly feel like 'exiting' and he/she is not going to want exit councelling either.

Everyone here seems determined to put a label on it and call it exit councelling. I guess that's because that's what's on people's minds. Actually, it's not uppermost on my mind and I am aware that extreme difficulties happen that are far worse than exiting a cult.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 29, 2001 at 03:30:06 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: it's great SD
Message:
Almost called or emailed there myself last night!! But fear not, I'm not impulsive that way, promise. Not anymoer anyway.

As long as you have covered yourself legally as not being a legally techically labeled counseling service than terminology is fine with me.

And thank you as always for another place to go, whether AG or this new one. AG helped me tremendously last night, even if I did use up a whole page.
I'm always surprised more people don't use it at these times, then the FA wouldn't have to complain about the complaints about the trolls. Damned trolls. so there.

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:02:15 (GMT)
From: Mark
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: exit counselling+++BEST OF+++WEBMASTER TAKE NOTE
Message:
Whether the name is non-exit or not is certainly worth conversation

However, a very real part of the teleology of this site is the practical availability of counseling.

It would make great sense indeed to have the availability of counselors be IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE to people drawn by the New York Post dimension of the website(Murder! Pedophilia! Sexual Abuse ! Substance Abuse! OUTRIGHT FRAUD!)

It would take a Dumb and Dumber candidate to read this site, glean the information, and not have their alliance/allegiance rocked, rolled, and disturbed

HOWEVER

The IMMEDIATE VISUAL AVAILABILITY for personal email counseling
right there on the ex-premie.org homepage would be of great service. PLEASE WEBMASTER CREATE A LINK TO DAVIDS SPACE AND LIST OF COUNSELORS !!!

Thanks
Mark Appleman

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 13:27:40 (GMT)
From: Katie H.
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Thanks, Sir David! (and Donner and Mickey)
Message:
I really admire all of you for doing this, and I like the way you've set it up. It's something that is needed around here.

Thanks, as always, for doing this.
Love,
Katie

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 09:10:27 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Thank you Sir Dave and the two Michaels NT
Message:
l
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 18:35:18 (GMT)
From: donner
Email: None
To: sir dave
Subject: Thank you
Message:
way to go sir dave...no moss under your feet.
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 04:54:11 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Thanks Sir Dave! I've already ...
Message:
passed the link on to an ex-premie friend who is new to the forum to show her there's kindler, gentler space. Cheers!
==f
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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 02:55:01 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Thats very kind and considerate.
Message:
Not my cup of tea .....all that counselling stuff -:)) but really my hat goes off to the three of you for your caring attitude.

I'm sure lots of folks will find it helpful....

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Tues, Mar 27, 2001 at 06:12:50 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: A useful addition - thanks David /nt
Message:
nt
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