Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:02:14 (GMT)
From: May 25, 2001 To: Jun 01, 2001 Page: 4 Of: 5


creativejani -:- can't face the 'Introducing the possibility of ... -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 13:20:22 (GMT)
__ General Mayhem -:- can't face the 'Introducing the possibility of ... -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 13:30:08 (GMT)
__ __ banana bai -:- can't face the 'Introducing the possibility of ... -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:37:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ creativejani -:- there's just no pleasing miragey, is there? -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 00:07:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ sb -:- hahahahahaha -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:55:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ banana bai -:- there's just no pleasing miragey, is there? -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:30:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- BB,since you can't please miragey,please la-ex -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:40:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- BB,since you can't please miragey,please la-ex -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 06:50:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ swami suchabanana -:- sabateur is wreaking havoc now - imagine -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 21:02:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ sb -:- You can love maharaji -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 03:34:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Hymn , hymn ,..........fuck hymn (nt) -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:39:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- A form of therapy -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:09:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Gary Epton -:- A form of therapy -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:57:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Gary, I still do them but in the right sequence -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:06:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- A form of therapy - to elaborate -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 11:39:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- the old nectar technique... -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 14:43:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bob -:- the old nectar technique... -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 18:07:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- the old nectar technique... -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 00:14:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bob -:- traditions and translations -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 00:32:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- the old nectar technique... -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 15:36:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- very true, I like what you're saying. It rings.. -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:38:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- A form of therapy for mental health and equanimty -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:12:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Why does he sell his pics then? -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 00:49:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ banana bai -:- Why does he sell his pics then? -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:34:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- why doesn't he allow his piccies in some halls? -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:53:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ banana bai -:- I'm sorry it hurt you -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:11:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- YOU ARE A PLANT!!! nt -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:21:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- A banana plant, perhaps (nt) -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:52:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Pot Plant? -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 06:54:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- Elaine, perhaps -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:56:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- not really hurt - don't worry! I first came across -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:45:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ banana bai -:- thanks, cj -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:10:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ pedro cavacas -:- you're so right banana -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:20:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- you only know you WERE in a cult, you never -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 00:48:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Out of Rev Moonbeam Rawat's frying pan into -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 01:40:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Let's look carefully at YOU, bb. -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 09:54:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gerry -:- JohnT, excellent, excellent post. -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 16:10:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- Banana, you're coming un-peeled... -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 14:58:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- you fucking cunt -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 06:02:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Gerry, on Fv the word cunt is spelled Rawat -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:44:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Yer right pat, don't know what came over me... -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:58:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Huxley not the most eloquent writer OT -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 21:01:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Huxley not the most eloquent writer OT -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 21:14:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- loss of consortium? I don't want to presume OT -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 21:57:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mili -:- tsk,tsk. -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 19:34:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Is this the same Mili who... -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 19:49:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mili -:- Shame on you -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 01:01:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ silvia -:- No generalizations please, is lots of truth here -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 04:32:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- OK Mili, tell me wherre I'm inaccurate... -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 02:30:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sbequick -:- Plant alright, if you ask me -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 12:49:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- elvis has entered the building -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 07:35:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- elvis has entered the building -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 12:50:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- don't worry -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 14:56:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ silavia -:- hahahahahaaaaaaaaaa NT -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 04:25:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ saluvia -:- no, saluvia hahahah NT -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 12:28:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- Good post!! Well said -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:28:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- What's the traditional way?Please inform! nt -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:06:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- What's the traditional way? Don't have the time to -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:10:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- What's the traditional way? Don't have the time to -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 06:00:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- What's the traditional way? I posted them above -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:19:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ silvia -:- which thread? Thanks. NT -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 05:47:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- It's here -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 08:25:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- Pat, thanks, email to follow, happy working!nt -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:26:52 (GMT)
__ __ creativejani -:- thanks for your understanding! have you heard of t -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:35:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ banana bai -:- have you heard -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:46:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ sb -:- Here it is banana -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:06:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bob -:- responsability campaign -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 12:15:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- responsability campaign -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 12:51:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bob -:- responsability campaign -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 15:10:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ banana bai -:- thanks, sb -- I especially like the part where... -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:16:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Banana,M took the sugggestion, and it only proved. -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 18:45:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ creativejani -:- the letter is on tigerriver.com/mletter.html and . -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:55:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Chuck Sprague -:- the easiest URL for the Maharaji Letter is... -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:16:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ banana bai -:- one more question! -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:36:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- no! enjoy your time away, see ya later.nt -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:56:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ banana bai -:- cj: pls read post above 'sorry to hurt' (NT) -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:13:53 (GMT)

Bob -:- miss your posts -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 12:56:42 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Masters are for dogs -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:32:33 (GMT)
__ __ Tonette -:- Wow Pat! Where do you come up with this stuff? -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 07:02:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- You don't want to know, Tonette -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 08:28:31 (GMT)
__ __ freethe premies -:- ******BEST of FORUM***** -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:01:22 (GMT)
__ __ banana bai -:- the same danger exists everywhere -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:58:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ sb -:- what a fish you are! -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:08:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Chuck Sprague -:- Maharaji quotes... -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 19:52:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ joe100@freeserve.co.uk -:- Maharaji quotes... -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 23:13:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Chuck Sprague -:- Welcome, Joe100... -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 05:03:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Recent agya unconnected to knowledge -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:09:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Bai Ji, watching you open up here on the forum -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 00:12:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bob -:- You do contribute greatly -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:02:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Thanks, Bob -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:07:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- PatC, I'll miss you... -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 19:32:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Then email me. The forum is a full-time job -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:47:32 (GMT)

Bob -:- folie a deux -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 12:41:25 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- folie a deux -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 13:50:34 (GMT)
__ __ Bob -:- Ahem! -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 21:17:50 (GMT)
__ __ Dermot -:- folie a deux -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 15:08:58 (GMT)

creativejani -:- satguru to teacher - The Story So Far. -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 11:56:53 (GMT)
__ banana bai -:- Important bit of untruth -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 14:06:47 (GMT)
__ __ sb -:- accurate like you? hmmmm NT -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:50:47 (GMT)
__ __ creativejani -:- Important bit of untruth - not important -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:00:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joy -:- The only bit of untruth in your post . . . -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:25:49 (GMT)
__ __ Tim G -:- I agree banana ji. Accuracy crucial. -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 22:24:31 (GMT)
__ __ Bazza -:- You sound familiar -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 15:09:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ banana bai -:- Bazza, what is your e-mail address? -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:15:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bazza -:- No problem -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:42:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ banana bai -:- You sound familiar -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:09:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ freetheass -:- Why fuck? -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:04:32 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Very true Ms Banana Bai -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 14:53:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Very true Ms Banana Bai -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 15:00:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ creativejani -:- ...hate every aspect of m? -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 15:26:21 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Moron Rawat not showing up in Versailles -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 09:51:47 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- He was late because..... -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 07:45:57 (GMT)
__ banana bai -:- Moron Rawat not showing up in Versailles -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:23:39 (GMT)
__ __ Bob -:- WHAT??? -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:31:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ creativejani -:- WHAT??? Yes, I remember... -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:13:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- being locked in halls -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:50:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- being locked in halls - yes, scary ! The kids w.. -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 02:26:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- just tried to answer you got locked up -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 03:41:08 (GMT)
__ sb -:- CHICKEN-COWARD-LIAR-IRRESPONSIBLE-FAKE -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 13:12:40 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Moron Rawat -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:16:48 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- I feel so, so sorry for him -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 15:18:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ sb -:- I am a moron, fine. NT -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:23:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- Huh? What did you mean? NT -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:34:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ sb -:- Huh? What did you mean? NT -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:06:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Compassion is not stupid ... -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 03:14:26 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- Press kit re Versailles on EV french site. -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 14:55:20 (GMT)
__ __ WMary -:- No mention of Event Cancellation...... -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 14:26:34 (GMT)
__ __ creativejani -:- I hope the journalists were truly interested ... -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:29:41 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Glen Miller..Robert Maxwell..Bermuda Triangle? (nt -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:08:44 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- I forgot: TV info on m today prime time -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 09:56:40 (GMT)
__ __ Mr. Mind -:- If he were a politician/statesman... -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:07:16 (GMT)
__ __ creativejani -:- You're a star... enjoy your time off! nt -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:05:21 (GMT)

A jewel from bellow -:- The craziness of maharaji's ASHRAMS -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:15:13 (GMT)
__ banana bai -:- The craziness of an individual -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 14:11:27 (GMT)
__ __ silvia/sb -:- you are fucked up! Cult member- SCRAM -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 04:36:59 (GMT)
__ __ Richard Wallace -:- The craziness of an individual -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 00:35:40 (GMT)
__ __ Dermot -:- You probably have a good point there Banana Bai.. -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 14:40:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ silvia/SB -:- which makes his cult irresponsible, -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 04:42:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bob -:- probably have a good point there BUT.. -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 21:30:43 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- yes it should be kept with the other stories -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:34:59 (GMT)
__ clarification -:- The craziness of maharaji's ASHRAMS -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:33:25 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- no the one before this is mine hahaha -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:37:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ sb -:- no the one before this is mine hahaha -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:44:35 (GMT)

janet -:- Jagdo rapes me in a dream; in struggle,I kill him -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 23:28:09 (GMT)
__ Scot J -:- Jagdo rapes me in a dream; in struggle,I kill him -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:52:15 (GMT)
__ janet -:- Jagdo rapes me in a dream;,I kill him-pt II -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 23:29:26 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Jagdo rapes me in a dream;,I kill him-pt II -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 00:28:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ creativejani -:- Jagdo rapes me in a dream;,I kill him-pt II -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 12:26:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ banana bai -:- Jagdeo -- what is his current status??? -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 00:09:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- Sigh - STILL wanting to believe in guru! -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:19:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Jagdeo -- traveling in Africa last month giving K -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:06:01 (GMT)

G -:- Get yer divine umbrellas here on sale! -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 22:30:17 (GMT)
__ WMary -:- GOING OUT OF BUSINESS SALE...??..(nt) -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 13:22:24 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- I threw my Drifting tape in a dumpster -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 02:37:24 (GMT)
__ __ Bazza -:- I sold all mine on eBay!! -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:25:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- am surprised anyone would buy them on ebay -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:46:59 (GMT)
__ janet -:- just had to get me one. for the downpours of the -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 01:27:21 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- 'Maharaji, Guru Maharaj Ji' is on the g-list -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 02:29:16 (GMT)
__ Gordon Showcase -:- Get yer divine umbrellas here on sale! -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 00:43:59 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Holly umbrellas batman!........nt -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 00:29:30 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- was it the penguin? or the joker who had one? -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 01:30:00 (GMT)
__ bob -:- nothing..... -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 22:41:59 (GMT)
__ __ sb -:- hahahahahaha -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 02:28:13 (GMT)
__ __ Simon Satsang -:- something.... -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 00:52:53 (GMT)

Sandy -:- Love means being able to say you're sorry -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 17:43:22 (GMT)
__ janet -:- not streisand. ali macgraw. wrong movie sandy -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 01:28:45 (GMT)
__ __ Sandy -:- not streisand. ali macgraw. wrong movie sandy -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 02:08:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- not the letter of the cast list, but the spirit nt -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 11:10:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sandy -:- not the letter of the cast list, but the spirit nt -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 12:22:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- I do not understand this response. -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:22:33 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- I never did quite get that -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 22:17:07 (GMT)
__ __ Disculta -:- Yeah, me neither -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 22:40:11 (GMT)
__ Elaine -:- Didn't want to start a whole new thread... -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 18:53:49 (GMT)
__ __ creativejani -:- Didn't want to start a whole new thread... -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:14:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elaine -:- Didn't want to start a whole new thread... -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 00:56:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- you have no credibility, cult apologist elaine. -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 16:37:43 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- thanks for stopping by... -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 20:39:29 (GMT)
__ sb -:- Ali Mc something -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 17:56:10 (GMT)
__ __ Ebola Ji -:- Ali McGraw...........nt -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 19:28:51 (GMT)

Disculta -:- Coming to England. Any Latvians? -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 17:12:05 (GMT)
__ creativejani -:- Coming to England Hi! -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:35:13 (GMT)
__ __ Disculta -:- Coming to England Hi! -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:46:44 (GMT)
__ Disculta -:- Thanks for emails... -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 05:09:13 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Are you heading up North? -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 22:46:46 (GMT)
__ __ Bazza -:- Nige did you get my email??? OT/NT -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:26:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Yes, thanks, Bazza am replying..(ot)..and.. -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 09:12:42 (GMT)
__ __ Disculta -:- Are you heading up North? -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 23:42:51 (GMT)
__ clh -:- Coming to England. Any Latvians? -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 17:19:21 (GMT)


Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 13:20:22 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: creativejani@aol.com
To: Everyone
Subject: can't face the 'Introducing the possibility of ...
Message:
knowledge' training at the Old Building, London School of Economics, Houghton Street, off the Aldwych,this p.m, I should be leaving now but I just can't, somehow. Sorry, I promised I'd go and report back but I don't have what it takes to motivate myself! Maybe it's too soon, I may have a slight fear I'll slip back and be re-influenced - and I don't want to see my friends who are still premies and have to deceive them about still being 'one of them'.

I am writing letters to papers, though, so I do keep some of my promises.

Forgive me, for I am weak (and just want to have fun!) If anyone else ever wants to go to an event in London, perhaps they could let me know and I'll be glad of the company.

Love Jani

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 13:30:08 (GMT)
From: General Mayhem
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: can't face the 'Introducing the possibility of ...
Message:
Don't worry. There should be some Christians there. Introducing the possibility of Christians getting wind of Maharaji's current activities.

Onward Christian Soldiers!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:37:59 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: None
To: General Mayhem
Subject: can't face the 'Introducing the possibility of ...
Message:
Oh God. My childhood nightmare. 'Onward Christian Soldiers' was probably the song I hated most when I was forced to go to church as a kid.

I suspect that there won't be anything 'new' at these trainings. I think it's just a way to get people used to talking about Knowledge again -- but with a lot of 'guidance' about how to go about that. Guidance on how to speak about it is what really bugs me about the whole concept of the trainings. No doubt lots of talk about how to 'keep it simple' and not say too much or burden someone else with one's own concepts.

I remember in the early days anyone could get up in front of hundreds of people and say anything they wanted to say, however they wanted to say it. That showed a real trust that what we were talking about was real. But having trainings to 'help' people talk about it, this undermines every sense of trust I can think of.

I took down most of my pictures of Maharaji at home. I still think of him before I practice and kind of connect with what he means to me as Guru, but I feel better looking now at the blank space on the wall where a picture used to hang, which shows a rectangle frame of dust on the wall. For me, it is representative of my freeing myself from some concepts. And remembering about the time Maharaji came through some premie's house and was upset to see his pictures all over the house. He said something like, 'Do you want my picture or do you want me?'

bb

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 00:07:12 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: there's just no pleasing miragey, is there?
Message:
You'd have thought he'd be pleased to see piccies of himself all over the place. Maybe he's like me, hates seeing how fat he is in photographs! The article on recent discoveries about how the brain is hot-wired for god might interest you, in the post above. Basically, there's a bit of the brain that seems dedicated to keeping us aware of our position in the world, and in meditation and prayer, it quiets down so we get a feeling of connectedness. It doesn't matter who or what we believe in, it works just the same. Just as I have long suspected, we don't need to believe in anyone except ourselves, there are many ways of achieving that state of mind and it's entirely our choice.

I'm thinking of learning some other technique of meditating so I can carry on without being reminded of m. I love the experiences I've had meditating, I just don't want to be under the illusion of needing his help! We do the work, he takes the credit. Time to stop!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:55:00 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: hahahahahaha
Message:
~slave labor~ is called. LOL

We do the work, he takes the credit. Time to stop!

I can't stop laughing.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:30:32 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: there's just no pleasing miragey, is there?
Message:
Personally, I don't have any problem with the idea of people finding another form of meditation or whatever -- though I don't believe I'll ever stop practicing Knowledge (and loving Maharaji). I don't feel an 'us and them' thing about it, and for those that it makes them feel better to find another path or meditation, I think they should do that. Following your heart is what it's all about anyway, right? It was Confucius that said, 'Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart.' And hopefully, where you go will be a fulfilling experience for you.

So, cj, I'm curious. What is it about Maharaji -- in your own personal experience of practicing Knowledge -- that bugs you so?

By the way, I won't be back to read your answer for a day or two, but will look forward to it.

bb

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:40:09 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: BB,since you can't please miragey,please la-ex
Message:
with your first pick for the next master...

you didn't respond to my last question, down in your thread about 'recommendations to miragey'..

I even gave you a few of my first round draft choices for next sad-guru, but you never responded...

OK, shri mata ki banana ki jai, I've shown you mine, how about you showing me yours?...

la-ex

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 06:50:14 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: BB,since you can't please miragey,please la-ex
Message:
This fellow has his own plan as to what things look like, I doubt it if he/she can answer straight questions.

Anyway fuck bananas.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 21:02:00 (GMT)
From: swami suchabanana
Email: None
To: salam and FAs
Subject: sabateur is wreaking havoc now - imagine
Message:
some tricky org premie posting as salaam or salami, imitating spellings and persona, and then doing an EVI maha type number on everyone.

See, now the deluded saboteur imposter is causing defamation of the banana family. This is insidious - and objectionable.

So, who's next here [after me] in the persona raping? Gee...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 03:34:34 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: You can love maharaji
Message:
and probably plants, and animals, and the sky, and anything taht has to do with being alive the question is? Does maharaji deserves your respect? Would you feel comfortable talking about him to an stranger who ask you who he is? What would you say? You would start: He is a master.... and???? He is a sick person. Face it. He is no good.

You need to read JM's sites and learn the facts. Then you may continue loving the man, if you believe taht WE MUST LOVE EVERYBODY, saintly) but you will lose respect for him like we all did. He programmed you to talk and think in a specific way. He made you a devotee who 'doesn't question the master'. He instructed to think like taht. You have the right to give your opinions but you are making a fool of yourself. If you want to be respected the least you can do is read and THEN you can exchange words with us. Otherwise, both of us, you and ex-premies lose precious time talking to a wall. The wall is your false beliefs about him that you came to buy because he put them in there, some part in your mind/brain.
'
Wake up. Is time to see right now. Is time to give YOURSELF a brake. He lied to you honey. Trust me and others. We have been where you are, do you realize that? Join the other side. Is much, much better. Real freedom. You are a cult memeber. 'You know who' is NOBODY. Is an illussion. He is a victim himself, somewhat. A greedy asshole who sooner or later will be known by the whole world as such. You're losing your time.

I wish you the best, and sorry for blowing steam bellow.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:39:24 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: Hymn , hymn ,..........fuck hymn (nt)
Message:
usmc
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:09:39 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: creativejani
Subject: A form of therapy
Message:
I am currently writing an article to put on my personal website. It is going to be about relaxation therapy.

From time to time, I get into my own relaxation technique which had its beginnings in the old third technique of knowledge. I hasten to add that it is not meditation and it is not Maharaji's knowledge. Maharaji's knowledge, especially as taught by him is not a technique of relaxation.

For ordinary people (of which I am one) the idea of meditation is quite horrible. It is something that strange people do. However, relaxation is a thing that everyone can relate to. There is no heaviness there and no need for changes, beliefs, philosphies or gurus. For me, that is the way I have evolved since I left Maharaji's trip in 1983.

For me, meditation has gone, a long time ago. Any spiritual path has evaporated as the obvious needs of everyday life have become apparent. The whole construct that is built around maharaji's so called 'knowledge' is detrimental to a person relaxing and having any good experience of life. I believe it is damaging, especially to sensitive people.

My understanding has become that people are happiest when they are relaxed, in their minds and bodies. Any technique that can help relax the mind and body is beneficial. Practically everything that Maharaji has ever said can be thrown out of the window as useless and misleading. He quite simply does not know what he is talking about. Listening to him, people will get further and further away from reality and how life really is.

The first point to start from is the point of relaxation. And strangely enough, that is the end point too. And yet there is a lot more in that little word than is apparent. Because we have whipped ourselves for so long and so hard that certainly, as ex-premies, we may find it hard to relax. We may have a bad opinion about ourselves which cannot be just erased in seconds. In effect, we could be more screwed up about things than we realise.

So I guess we have to completely unravel everything and go back to how we were before we ever received the Maha's 'knowledge'. See it all as some kind of bad dream - whatever. Give up any idea that he ever gave us and start again, from the very beginning which is to be in a completely blameless state, as we are, complete with our fiobles and bad habits and eccentricities.

Perhaps then, we can then take control of things and allow our own good sense take over and our own creativity (that was stifled by Maharaji) to come forth and shine in ways we previously thought impossible. Yes we can still shine but in our own unique way. And that's the best way.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:57:20 (GMT)
From: Gary Epton
Email: epton@hotmail.com
To: Sir Dave
Subject: A form of therapy
Message:
For me, meditation has gone, a long time ago. Any spiritual path has evaporated as the obvious needs of everyday life have become apparent. The whole construct that is built around maharaji's so called 'knowledge' is detrimental to a person relaxing and having any good experience of life. I believe it is damaging, especially to sensitive people

I must admit I find it unnerving that I appear to be the only ex posting here who still derives benefit from the practice of the techniques as shown by Rawat (and others). It's Rawat the phony master I'm railing against: his poor advice, hypocrisy, callousness, lack of responsibility, demands for devotion and servitude, flatulent lifestyle, alcoholism, lustful behavior, money and fear mongering, etc. The four techniques as he presents them today are also not referred to by him as either 'meditation' or a 'spiritual path', probably for the very reasons you allude to in your post.

However, I do find these techniques are simple and effective ways to turn inwards and have a feeling of deep relaxation and well-being. I find a relaxed form of concentration is key as is practice, like anything else. Whether my brain is 'hardwired' for this experience, or there is some kind of placebo effect based upon post-hypnotic suggestion (unlikely) is almost immaterial. It works for me. If it didn't I would take my above description of maha and draw the same conclusion as yourself that 'knowledge' is just another cheat and deceit.

I do not have the answer as to why rawat behaves as he does, although I have my suspicions. I just know that he has made it impossible for me to ever trust him again and therefore he is not my anything. As to the 'obvious needs of everyday life' I do not need him to have this experience, but it is necessary for me to have it. If I can find the time to post here, I can find the time to 'find me'.

Best wishes,
Gary

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:06:15 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Gary Epton
Subject: Gary, I still do them but in the right sequence
Message:
I did them for two years before I met the Urug and they are fine tools (which is what kriya means) but he teaches them backwards to impress gullible Indian peasants. I posted the proper sequence to creativejani in a thread above. Every ex-premie that I have shown this to has said it feels more natural.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 11:39:58 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Gary Epton
Subject: A form of therapy - to elaborate
Message:
There is some value in the techniques (for me) when modified and not practised in the way Maharaji teaches. The old nectar technique (not Maharaji's method) does produce results, for instance.

I prefer to call my technique 'breath relaxation'. There is a world of difference just setting aside ten minutes and sitting, reclining or lying down and not trying to concentrate on the breath. A world of difference between that and the Maha's teaching.

If one feels like spending more than ten minutes in that relaxed state, fine but if one finds it boring and uncomfortable then to cease after ten minutes is the best way.

The difference is, I am doing something to relax myself. If it doesn't relax me, I don't continue.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 14:43:06 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: the old nectar technique...
Message:
Could you explain what you mean by this? I am even more confused now! I am interested in learning about myself and any techniques which work better than those taught by M (though I got knowledge from Prakash Bai so it was a bit different again to what he's teaching now.) Any information gratefully recieved.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 18:07:38 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: the old nectar technique...
Message:
Sir Dave described how it was taught to me by Mohani Bai 1n 72. It is a remarkable technique. the stories about thirst prevention are partially true. One time painting a whole afternoon in the hot sun, i was able to do without water and having no thirst. I did get dehydrated however: headache, dizziness etc. the beer afterwards was great.
The other aspect is that it is a switch, which interconnects the two midline meridians (acupuncture). It prevents the chi from accumulating in the head (kundalini accidents, which are as close as anything to spontaneous combustion!) but eases it down to the abdomen.
This is consistent with the description of 'holy name' we got from our k.session: listen to the sound of the breath, somewhat similar to 'so hang' , then feel the sensation, going up when inhaling, going down when exhaling. no deliberate breathing.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 00:14:07 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: the old nectar technique...
Message:
yes, I've just seen that (tongue on the roof of the mouth)mentioned somewhere as a connection between two chi paths, but when I was given knowledge there was alot of talk about the tongue going right back...seemed too unnatural and painful to me at the time. I did once or twice have an experience when meditating of my tongue going back of its own accord, which was interesting! So much confusion - if my students were still that confused about playing piano after thirty years of my 'teaching', I'd give up quite frankly. But then I see and talk to them individually - that way I find people learn pretty quickly!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 00:32:50 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: traditions and translations
Message:
It is amazing how even respected yoga authorities, like Yengar, come up with the silliest translations: He, but not only him, describes a 'warming up exercise' for the nectar technique- stick your tongue out to the ROOT of your nose.....
He does all the exercises in his book 'Hatha yoga pradipika', but of course not that one. I think only an anteater and a butterfly could accomplish this. Obviously there must be a mistake between the word 'root' and 'tip'....
It does show the major flaw of the Hundu guru-discipel relationship: the student is discouraged to develop their own judgement.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 15:36:53 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: the old nectar technique...
Message:
Prakash Bai Ji gave me knowledge too, in the late Spring of '72. By the old nectar technique I mean the practise of folding the tongue back until it goes beyond the uvula and rests above the soft palate outside of the mouth.

Maharaji doesn't teach this now. He just says to put the tongue on the roof of the mouth. That's because he's never understood the original nectar technique as tought by his original Mahatmas and countless other people all over the world. It's a standard Hatha Yoga practise.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:38:58 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: very true, I like what you're saying. It rings..
Message:
true with me, because all that make an effort stuff and frightening people into thinking they would turn into a compost heap if they stopped practising knowledge was just pure bullying. Only then I took it quite seriously! He's very damaging and that's why I want to start with a fresh slate. I can't even say what the third technique is any more, I've never been very good at details, as Banana Bai took great pleasure in pointing out to me in an earlier post...

Relaxation is incredibly good for mind and body, and I don't do enough of it. i do write music designed as relaxation therapy, I use it myself and find it very helpful. If you share your technique(s) I'll send you a tape if you like, (if I ever get it finished - technology's letting me down at the moment, surprise surprise.) I try to create a feeling of love and security, like the feeling I got from knowledge (when it worked for me). music is great for that, and I hope it's one thing I can offer to the world, particularly for anyone needing some comfort and healing - which includes a few of us here, I think! I'll let you know when the opus is complete...if I ever get away from the forum!

I'm backing away respectfully now...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:12:35 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: A form of therapy for mental health and equanimty
Message:
Amen, Sir Dave. Brilliantly put.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 00:49:21 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: creativejani
Subject: Why does he sell his pics then?
Message:
He's bullshitting when he says things like he doesn't like his pics displayed - flase modesty.

If you like meditating but don't want to associate it with Rev Rawat's religous BS then do them the traditional way. Everyone I have shown them to has said it's even better than his ass about face way.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:34:54 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Why does he sell his pics then?
Message:
Well, I think having a picture or two around is very different than hanging lots of pictures of him. I did not take what he said to mean he was anti-photograph; rather, he felt they were overdoing it. Obviously if he were anti-photograph, as you point out, he would stop sales of them. (And sales of his pictures have been very infrequent the last years. In fact, I don't know of any video halls that are even allowed to display his photograph on the walls there!)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:53:13 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: why doesn't he allow his piccies in some halls?
Message:
Do you think it's because he doesn't want to attract any attention - strange, since his mission is to spread knowledge and save the world. You always have a favourable interpretation of his bolshy behaviour, so you make excuses for everyone or just him? Oh, that's right, I forgot your hurtful criticism of my half-hearted attempt at a history of the mission so far...

Are you actually interested in finding out what m's really like? As Sir David Frost would say, 'The clues are there!' (On 'Through the Keyhole', I haven't seen it for ages, honest!) Hey, wonder if miragey would let them poke around his res and come on the show - that would be great! Then we could find out once and for all if he really has a gold-plated, heated toilet! Not that I'd criticise him for that of course. And I've decided to stop calling him names now as well. Three weeks into recovery now and I feel the need diminishing (much like m's following in the west.) I'll just make the occasional comment to give you a chance to divert your own critical faculties from the former Lord of the Universe.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:11:58 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: I'm sorry it hurt you
Message:
That was not my intention to hurt you.

I can understand that you are coming from a place of feeling a lot of hurt in general, and I really don't want you to feel any worse.

I know all to well how easy it is to exaggerate and even fabricate facts in the heat of emotion, and your having done that in your post was only one of many posts I have seen by many others besides yourself -- and I'm sorry it came out like I was picking on you.

What I would like to understand is what got you so upset in the first place. I don't mean what upsets you now and a long list of things, but rather I am curious what it was that happened that got you upset in the very first place. I would really like to know.

bb

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:21:31 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: YOU ARE A PLANT!!! nt
Message:
OUT!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:52:50 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: sb
Subject: A banana plant, perhaps (nt)
Message:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 06:54:16 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Pot Plant?
Message:
or Potty plant? yar?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:56:35 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Elaine, perhaps
Message:
in a new 'suit'?

hahahahaha

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:45:37 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: not really hurt - don't worry! I first came across
Message:
this site when I was waiting to register for the Nottingham programme, the registration site was 3 days late opening and so I started looking for the ex-premie sites I'd heard about, just out of curiosity. I started reading the posts about Abi and Jagdeo (I presume you've read them?) Then, in shock, I read more about premies' experiences around m, particularly Michael Dettmers, and Anth. (who I knew from 6 months in Unity School.) I remembered hearing little snatches of stuff about 'trouble' over the years - the Indian m ran over and killed, the smuggling of cash across borders - I'd not tried to find out more at the time, cos I was like you - I loved m and Knowledge. But it all fitted into place, lots of things I'd heard, and I suppose I was ready to admit it to myself, because I no longer practised meditation and wasn't involved with EV. Plus, I'd just realised after 27 years of having m as my 'master', I'd never been within 50 yards of him except in darshan lines a couple of times, and he was completely inaccessible. Plus he'd changed the rules several times over the years, which confused me but I made excuses for him. Add to that the way he's taken control of every aspect of the 'events' when we do see him - he and his family. (It's like the mafia.)He makes the videos, writes the (pretty bad at times) music, recites his (extremely, excruciatingly bad) poems - I'd begun to get pissed off with him leaving no room for us premies to have any real relationship with him - it was all make-believe, one-sided - we trust him, but he doesn't trust us to even speak to others bout him without instructions! It's been getting gradually worse for years but you don't notice until one day, the final piece of the jigsaw slots into place and there you are - an ex-premie. I'm angry on behalf of the premies he's really hurt, not so much for myself. I got off lightly.

I read about how he treated Anne Johnson, who I remember, and other premies too numerous to mention. (Look, have you read any of the 'My Story' stuff, what more do you need? They all tell the same basic tale of his real personality!) I hate cruelty, like I've said somewhere before, and there are no excuses for m now he's not a little boy... If you care about others, you will take a good look at the man you think of as Maharaji, and consider if he actually fits your mental and emotional picture of him. But perhaps you're not ready for that yet. I think it would be easier to do it now, though, of your own free will, than to wait for all the bad press he's going to get from now on. I see it as my duty as a human being to oppose dictators, conmen and liars - oops, sorry, make that false gods - ah no,he only claimed to be GREATER than God, didn't he? well, you know who I mean.

Sending you lots of positive vibes...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:10:32 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: thanks, cj
Message:
Thanks for sharing that.

I can't really get into each allegation here point by point, especially since I shouldn't be here but need to go off to work very soon -- but over time I suppose I will end up responding to just about everything, even if my response is nothing but a 'hmmm.'

I guess the main thing I would like to say, though, is that on this website one is, by and large, only getting one side of the story -- the side of the story from those who are upset with Maharaji -- and there really is always 'another side to every story.' But beyond that, there are also lots of other stories, very positive ones, that I have heard, from people who have lived with Maharaji. A lot of stories which by themselves are not 'exciting' or 'cosmic' but which show him to be a very kind and caring person. This is why I was wondering if you had any personal experience that got you so upset. You also mentioned that you had stopped practicing Knowledge (if I understood you correctly) for a considerable amount of time before you began to seek out the negative stories and in turn got upset and alarmed by them.

I will just give one example here of a story I read here recently that I don't feel tells me anything except one person's subjective feeling -- but which most people here probably quickly took as 'the way it was.' Someone said s/he asked Maharaji for Knowledge and that Maharaji 'scowled' at him and said he was too busy and to see an instructor. I've been around long enough to know how rarely Maharaji scowls, and how unlikely it is that he would scowl in response to someone asking for Knowledge; but I'm also a sensitive enough person to realize that often one, when feeling very vulnerable, can misread another's facial expressions or words as being negative when really they were not at all.

One example I remember was when I was in a room with many people, most of whom knew me. I was chatting with one woman when another person walked up. I needed to say something privately to the person who walked up, because it would have been embarrassing for that person if I were to speak in front of others what I was going to say, so I excused myself and took that person to the other side of the room to say something in confidentiality. The woman I had been chatting with, I later came to learn, was fuming mad because she assumed that I had gone to the other side of the room with that other person to talk about *her*! She had it in her head because of two perceived 'slights' that I had it in for her, but really and truly I did not. (She is, in fact, my closest friend nowadays and I talk to her almost every day. She is a premie too and knows that I post here.)

The point is, so much of what you are reading here is hearsay. You are hearing very subjective takes on things, and not all of the facts. I can tell you that I know many very, very nice things Maharaji has said and done 'behind the scenes' that have been related to me by people I know very well and trust.

Well, anyhow, I respect your right to disagree, and am glad you weren't all that hurt after all!

bb

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:20:18 (GMT)
From: pedro cavacas
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: you're so right banana
Message:
i am not good at english sorry. i used to be in maharji group but went to become in unification church. lot of bad things said about father moon but i now they not true, he is very lovely man and is christ consciousness...just a bit like maharaji but father moon give much more powerful visions.

These people will always have negative about true world leaders.

some peoples say that i am in cult and call me crazy moonie but now like you i am not in cult

god bless you banana ..strange name eh? what is your real name ..i like you

Pedro

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 00:48:55 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: pedro cavacas
Subject: you only know you WERE in a cult, you never
Message:
recognise it while you're still there. Tricky, huh?
Still, if you say you're not in a cult, perhaps we could all come and join you, then Rev Moon can protect us from EV and m.(though apparently they are almost entirely unconnected these days - see FAQs on elanvital.org site.)See, they say they're not a cult, yet when I ran my cultometer over the screen as I read their 'replies to criticism' it went right off the scale! Extraordinary. Glad to know you don't need to borrow it. (By the way, is Rev Moon still around in a physical body? Do he and m look a bit alike, or is that my imagination?)

Yep, I reckon it's the moonies for me now, I've certainly learned my lesson...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 01:40:52 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: Out of Rev Moonbeam Rawat's frying pan into
Message:
Rev Moon's hellfire and brimstone. You are droll, Jani.

And they do look alike. Though Rawat will probably look like Chairman Mao before he dies if he keeps telling so many fibs.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 09:54:33 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: Let's look carefully at YOU, bb.
Message:
There's a certain familiarity to bb's style. Like
  • sorry you misunderstood and got hurt but the Master is kind and does have valid teachings

  • sorry I can't answer that now as I haven't time but here's a promise that will be really hard to track instead

  • here's a slur said with a smile which will take ages to research and disprove

  • (this one's laughable) you guys have only one half of the story

Here's a deconstruction of the latest bai droppings.

BB: Thanks for sharing that. I can't really get into each allegation here point by point, especially since I shouldn't be here but need to go off to work very soon -- but over time I suppose I will end up responding to just about everything, even if my response is nothing but a 'hmmm.'

JohnT: BB trivialises the open-and-shut case of systematic spiritual fraud. Allegation is the lightest (and somehow negative) word that could be applied to the serious body of evidence we have collected. How about Serious and apparently well founded concerns attested to by many of those closest to Rawat, but which he seems to wish to ignore; trivialise or stall on answering .

BB: I guess the main thing I would like to say, though, is that on this website one is, by and large, only getting one side of the story -- the side of the story from those who are upset with Maharaji -- and there really is always 'another side to every story.'

JohnT: BB ignores the fact that she is talking about people who have many year's first hand experience of the man and his methods. Having denied their first hand testimonies and feelings (breathtaking!) she deftly slips more poison to the reader by equating those first hand testimonials with -- wait for it -- second hand stories she has heard...

BB: But beyond that, there are also lots of other stories, very positive ones, that I have heard, from people who have lived with Maharaji. A lot of stories which by themselves are not 'exciting' or 'cosmic' but which show him to be a very kind and caring person.

JohnT: 'Nice', but very, very nasty. BB is saying what she has heard second hand is more valid than the direct experience that most posters here have had.

BB: This is why I was wondering if you had any personal experience that got you so upset. You also mentioned that you had stopped practicing Knowledge (if I understood you correctly) for a considerable amount of time before you began to seek out the negative stories and in turn got upset and alarmed by them.

JohnT: AS GERRY POINTED OUT, AN OUTRIGHT LIE AND DISTORTION. See creativejani's post above called not really hurt - don't worry! I first came across (Mon, May 28, 2001 at 03:45:37). I would expect this observation of Gerry's will in future be referred to as 'a hurtful allegation' and that BB finds she does not have time to deal with such nasty comments from people who clearly have not understood M or his message.

BB: I will just give one example here of a story I read here recently that I don't feel tells me anything except one person's subjective feeling -- but which most people here probably quickly took as 'the way it was.' Someone said s/he asked Maharaji for Knowledge and that Maharaji 'scowled' at him and said he was too busy and to see an instructor. I've been around long enough to know how rarely Maharaji scowls, and how unlikely it is that he would scowl in response to someone asking for Knowledge; but I'm also a sensitive enough person to realize that often one, when feeling very vulnerable, can misread another's facial expressions or words as being negative when really they were not at all.

JohnT: Filthy tactics continue. BB castigates ex-premies for sharing their feelings with each other. She misuses the word 'sensitive' (something that reads stuff incorrectly is not 'sensitive' - it's defective.) Then she peddles a story as the alternative 'truth'. But her story, to coin a phrase, tells us nothing except her own subjective impressions. It is her subjective impression that people who may have struggled for years to extricate themselves from Rawat's fraud actually misread the man and his methods after all. Hmmm. Methinks BB has not bothered to read any Journeys at all. Arrogant, or what!

BB: One example I remember was when I was in a room with many people, most of whom knew me. I was chatting with one woman when another person walked up. I needed to say something privately to the person who walked up, because it would have been embarrassing for that person if I were to speak in front of others what I was going to say, so I excused myself and took that person to the other side of the room to say something in confidentiality. The woman I had been chatting with, I later came to learn, was fuming mad because she assumed that I had gone to the other side of the room with that other person to talk about *her*! She had it in her head because of two perceived 'slights' that I had it in for her, but really and truly I did not. (She is, in fact, my closest friend nowadays and I talk to her almost every day. She is a premie too and knows that I post here.)

JohnT: The episode merely shows BB to be socially inept (and determined to defend the man Rawat and his methods) but maybe quite nice on an individual level. From her style her, I can believe that. Unlike BB, I draw no wide cosmic conclusions from her personality and subjective impressions.

BB: The point is, so much of what you are reading here is hearsay. You are hearing very subjective takes on things, and not all of the facts. I can tell you that I know many very, very nice things Maharaji has said and done 'behind the scenes' that have been related to me by people I know very well and trust.

JohnT: BB, the Journeys are first hand testimonials. They are in public, in writing, from identifiable individuals, and can be cross-checked. Against this you prefer your reliance on private verbal anecdotes from anonymous cult victims who cultivate a 'relationship' with an imaginary friend-in-their-head they call Mwaji. The distortion and betrayal of basic human decency and trust is exactly what the man and his methods rely on. Try reading the Journeys.

BB: Well, anyhow, I respect your right to disagree, and am glad you weren't all that hurt after all!
bb

JohnT: I think this translates best as I'm glad my trickery is working

BB, please read the Journeys. I did, although I did not have years or decades of carefully contrived spin and lies to see through. They are written first hand accounts from people with decades of experience of Rawat and his methods. Some Journeys are from folk who were as close to Rawat as anyone has been. Please read them before you cause great hurt and offence to people here...

JohnT
- never a premie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 16:10:30 (GMT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: JohnT, excellent, excellent post.
Message:
It's the kind of post I would have loved to have written myself last night, had I not been totally exhausted and fed up with this deceitful banana person.

It really deserves to be reposted as a new thread. Beautiful deconstruction, my man.

That should just about finish off this anonymous character, whom I'm sure will reappear soon as yet another reincarnation...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 14:58:50 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Banana, you're coming un-peeled...
Message:
What an excellent dissection of the starch-filled one's post! Reading his/her(?) is a strange feeling, like you're talking to someone who's ears are stuffed with cotton-wool..I think she must be doing this as a service, s/he certainly hasn't read any Journeys, or else they're filed away under 'does-not-compute' with all the other bits of troubling information s/he doesn't like. Or else the banana is a composite premie, written by EV in an attempt to stem the flow of real information and experiences. You notice s/he didn't bother to share any of these so-called incidents of m's kindness s/he's HEARD about from the premies she knows and trusts etc etc. There's no substance there, just a fog of m's dogma polluting the forum. D'you think Glen has a hand here, or has he come to his senses? Anyone know what his status is these days? I'm interested because he picked me for knowledge...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 06:02:59 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: you fucking cunt
Message:
Alright, I said the 'c' word. Sorry every one but bananabutt

The Bananabitch is the most insidious premie poster I've read here. She is one of the most slipperiest and deceitful person who has ever posted her, IMHO.

She regularly uses make the rhetoric device of false presuppositions in her posts and she has been getting away with it. Here's a prime example and there are many more.

You also mentioned that you had stopped practicing Knowledge (if I understood you correctly) for a considerable amount of time before you began to seek out the negative stories and in turn got upset and alarmed by them.

Now, nowhere in her post does creativejani say she 'began to seek out the negative stories.' But this person (liar, basically) makes it appear as if this were the case and she gets away with it.

This is only one of many I've spotted. Have some fun and find your own examples. Her posts are loaded with them.

She plays dirty so she gets a nasty name.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:44:00 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Gerry, on Fv the word cunt is spelled Rawat
Message:
and fuck is spelled Prempal. So you're phrase should say; ''You Prempaling Rawat!'' Prick is guru. Shit is Maharaji. Etc. Let's keep this forum clean shall we?

And I hope you never get any Maharaji on your guru.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:58:15 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Yer right pat, don't know what came over me...
Message:
I guess that's the nature of being dark and twisted.

By the by, I wish I could have a talk with Mr Huxley. He's killing me with adverbs in Crome Yellow.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 21:01:51 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Huxley not the most eloquent writer OT
Message:
I just love his mind and he bravely went where few others of his time dared to go. How are you? Has Patty recovered?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 21:14:26 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Huxley not the most eloquent writer OT
Message:
Patty is just now starting to put some weight on her left leg. The top of her tibia where it meets the femur was, as the doc described, 'shattered.' Many hairline fractures, and miraculously she won't need pins and plates surgery as it all stayed together.

She almost got completely out of the way of the car that struck her. Patty had her left knee in the air actually, so she was sorta 'freewheeling' and had no weight on it at the moment of impact.

Me? I'm OK but this loss of consortium has me a little twisted and dark...(snicker)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 21:57:04 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: loss of consortium? I don't want to presume OT
Message:
So could you explain. I am shocked at the extent of Patty's injuries because you seemed to downplay it at the time. Any bone damage is usually permanent and acts up as we age. I'm up to five major bone injury pains now at 54. So glad you're feeling dark and twisted. We need a bit more right now what with all the sweetness and light. And yes, I know I am one of the culprits. I just can't seem to help myself being nice to PWKs.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 19:34:44 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: tsk,tsk.
Message:
Gerry, she's just 'a poor, deluded victim of the cult', isn't she? Don't you think you could go a little easier on her?

Speaks volumes about your humanity (?) and the very dark and twisted place you're coming from..

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 19:49:42 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Is this the same Mili who...
Message:
1) tried to shut down our newsgroup by telling Usenet you had the support of a whole bunch of people when, in truth, you'd just grabbed a bunch of names from all the people who'd ever posted on Harlan's page, even when it turned out that all sorts of exes were amongst them? Usenet told you to fuck off for being such a slimeball too, didn't they? Or something to that effect, no?

2) threaten to punch out the 'original' David if you ever saw him outside a program? I mean, that wasn't some other Mili, was it? You know, with all these aliases and people just using first names and stuff, I could be mistaken. What's your recollection of that incident? I seem to recall a big discussion and how that confirmed -- possibly even spawned -- the 'no threats' policy here. Wasn't it something like that?

3) told some woman here who posted about being sexually abused in the cult that she must be a liar and is probably an old, fat hag anyway, or, again, something like that?

4) tried to shut down the only discussion that ever really started on yours and Harlan's page, the discussion where one premie started talking about Maharaji as the Lord and the other premie took issue with that. You DID tell them that debates of that nature weren't allowed on your forum, didn't you?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 01:01:53 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Shame on you
Message:
Your information is just about as accurate and taken out of context as anything else is on this site.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 04:32:31 (GMT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: No generalizations please, is lots of truth here
Message:
Premies do not know how to be truthful even to themselves.

YUCK!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 02:30:49 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: OK Mili, tell me wherre I'm inaccurate...
Message:
And please point out the inaccuracies on the website. We are all seekers of truth here, correct?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 12:49:00 (GMT)
From: sbequick
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Plant alright, if you ask me
Message:
another of those... Listen to the 'tone'.

SB, enlighted enough to see PLANT all over the bananapeels.

Nobody there

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 07:35:49 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: elvis has entered the building
Message:
It's getting pretty hot here, ya?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 12:50:09 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: elvis has entered the building
Message:
i just took my clothers off...LOL
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 14:56:22 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: sb
Subject: don't worry
Message:
am on my way, hang on to your nickers :)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 04:25:57 (GMT)
From: silavia
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: hahahahahaaaaaaaaaa NT
Message:
ROFL
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 12:28:30 (GMT)
From: saluvia
Email: None
To: silavia
Subject: no, saluvia hahahah NT
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:28:00 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: Good post!! Well said
Message:
I like this part most:

Add to that the way he's taken control of every aspect of the 'events' when we do see him - he and his family. (It's like the mafia.)He makes the videos, writes the (pretty bad at times) music, recites his (extremely, excruciatingly bad) poems - I'd begun to get pissed off with him leaving no room for us premies to have any real relationship with him - it was all make-believe, one-sided - we trust him, but he doesn't trust us to even speak to others bout him without instructions! It's been getting gradually worse for years but you don't notice until one day, the final piece of the jigsaw slots into place and there you are - an ex-premie. I'm angry on behalf of the premies he's really hurt, not so much for myself. I got off lightly.

ME, ME, ME, ME, ME....MAHARAJI GOD. He must be on something.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:06:06 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: What's the traditional way?Please inform! nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:10:32 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: creativejani
Subject: What's the traditional way? Don't have the time to
Message:
write them out right away as I am at work. I have them written out at home and could email them to you tonight if you wish if you email me. By the way, as another new ex, I am thoroughly enjoying your contributions to the forum. I wish you everything of the best.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 06:00:30 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: What's the traditional way? Don't have the time to
Message:
i want them, please.

thanks

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:19:55 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: sb
Subject: What's the traditional way? I posted them above
Message:
in another thread. But feel free to email me with any questions you may have. Every ex-premie I have shown them to feels they are more natural. I did it the traditonal way for two years before I met the urug. He really fucked them up for me with all his gurjism superstitous Hindu bullshit.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 05:47:10 (GMT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: which thread? Thanks. NT
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 08:25:25 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: silvia
Subject: It's here
Message:
Traditional Techniques
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:26:52 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Pat, thanks, email to follow, happy working!nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:35:25 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: General Mayhem
Subject: thanks for your understanding! have you heard of t
Message:
the Maharaji Responsibility Campaign? They wrote an ope letter to M which is on a website, I printed it off. It's from last June, no reply yet! I didn't know they existed or who they are. I learn more every day about this rebellion...

Permission to sign off, General? nite.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:46:52 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: have you heard
Message:
What is an ope letter? What website was it? And what did the letter say?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:06:40 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: Here it is banana
Message:
Letter
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 12:15:15 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: sb
Subject: responsability campaign
Message:
Thank you for this link! I saved this letter, hoping I could use it some time writing to a newspaper or TV station. I will not do this until it has added news value, like an upcoming program or lots of publications in the press. (but we might be very close to that...) I will change the feet kissing date barf!) into 2001
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 12:51:56 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: responsability campaign
Message:
I don't like the letter. Too soft. The guy is sick. Period. He needs to retire or go to jail for a while. If he stops, he will find a way to do it againg.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 15:10:34 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: sb
Subject: responsability campaign
Message:
I agree it is soft. But in some circles,speccially with people who never had any involvement with m. ,premies or exes ,like church leaders it might serve its purpose.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:16:54 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: None
To: sb
Subject: thanks, sb -- I especially like the part where...
Message:
Well, here, I'll quote it. I think it an awesomely good idea:

'Besides clarifying your role, we suggest that you transform your organization so that it becomes the first 'former' cult in history to institute safeguards against ever becoming a cult again. For example, members might receive a text outlining the characteristics of cults and mind control and how to recognize them. Such a text could become required reading before you agree to teach anyone. We believe this would make your followers more independent, with greater opportunity for personal growth. Perhaps your teachings might have value, on their own merits, without a cult-like belief system. You have a great opportunity. We urge you to consider it.'

Truly constructive criticism, that!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 18:45:49 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: Banana,M took the sugggestion, and it only proved.
Message:
one thing: what a cult he has been operating for so many years.

I was one of the writers of the MRC letter, and we made that suggestion to him last summer.
An add in a public newspaper was placed in Boston, referring readers to the MRC and EPO sites.

Shortly after the add ran, EV posted a list of 'cult characteristics on their site.
Naturally, EV passed with flying colors, by supposedly not having any of these cult 'red flags'.

The interesting thing to me was that, when you apply the EV standards to the DLM/EV days from 1971-1984 or so, you realize that it WAS a major cult, in every aspect and definition of the word.
It also makes m a CULT LEADER.

Is m willing to admit that by his own standards he was the cult leader of a major cult for over a decade?
And that cults harm people?
And has he ever, just once, attempted to apologize to or help the cult members he conned, used and manipulated?
I think the answer is clearly NO!
In fact, he calls people with issues complainers, lost in the past,unhappy people with an axe to grind etc.

Do you disagree?

Do you see why so many people don't trust the man and despise his transparent attempts to marginalize them?
Do you see how insecure and frightened he is, and what a cynical liar he is?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:55:02 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: the letter is on tigerriver.com/mletter.html and .
Message:
it's quite long. It basically asks m to be honest about not being divine, and to remove all the trappings of cultdom - and to encourage independant thinking in his followers, amongst other things. I believe they sent a copy to him, and the text is on the website so it's open to everyone to read.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:16:55 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: creativejani
Subject: the easiest URL for the Maharaji Letter is...
Message:
www.openlettertomaharaji.org
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:36:47 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: one more question!
Message:
Thanks for the info. Was there something you were going to put in the subject line after the word 'and'?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:56:21 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: no! enjoy your time away, see ya later.nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:13:53 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: cj: pls read post above 'sorry to hurt' (NT)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 12:56:42 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Pat C
Subject: miss your posts
Message:
Pat ,i miss your posts. Hope to read them soon again.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:32:33 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: Bob
Subject: Masters are for dogs
Message:
Thanks, Bob. What a nice message to read on this beautiful Sunday in San Francisco. I'm trying to take a break from the forum as I am gearing up for the three summer months when I make half my annual income and I won't have time to post or read probably.

Joy said the best way to stop forum addcition is to stop posting. That way you don't get caught up in discussions. Also keep my email address handy in case you ever feel like talking to me.

But I'll share this with you. Today I just received this email from a premie who has heard about the new Propagation Training Seminars. I asked him what he thought about that.

He said: ''Pat, training is for dogs....i won't be part of anything that even suggests to me how to speak from the heart....so we are in agreement there....''

I replied: ''Well, I go one step further and say that only dogs need Masters. I came to Knowledge because of satsang and I prefer being inspired by my friends' speaking spontaneously and sincerely from their hearts. I'll get high with a little help from my friends rather than from a greedy guru.''

Searching for a master using a search engine. Results 99.9% sado-masochistic pornography and 0.1% spiritual stuff. For example I thought this was hilarious.

The master said: ''Right now, I want to test you out to
see how you perform as a slave. He opened the bag and pulled something out.

''I've always wanted a dog. Let's see if you can be a good dog for me.''

The object was a dog collar, a big one, like for Dobermans or something. He put it on me. I didn't resist, but I melted a bit when his hands touched my neck. When he finished, he crouched down to look me in the face.

''Here we go. I want to see if you can be a good dog. Please me and we can do some more. Fail, and I'm gone.''

That was all the threat I needed, I wanted the master in my life forever, and I wanted to always be at his feet. He straightened up. And I got on all fours, looking up at him.

''Good Fido. Let's see if you know any tricks. Sit.''

I put my ass on the floor, keeping my arms straight, so I looked like a dog sitting.

''Good boy. Lie down.''

I put my arms forward and my head down. I couldn't look at Master's face like that, and I must have looked like a Muslim at prayer, but it seemed to be what Master wanted.

''Up.''

I got back on all fours.

''Roll over.''

I did.

''Play dead.''

I rolled onto my back and left my arms and legs in the air.

''Good boy.''

Master stood over me and stared down.

''Sit,'' he ordered again and I sat.

''Speak.''

I 'woofed.'

Master then took something else out of his bag and
it was a leash. He attached it and said ''Heel.''

He began to walk around the room. I followed the best I could. Humans just weren't made to go about on their hands and knees very fast or very long. And I had a hard time keeping up with Master. Of course, it didn't help that he as going in a circle with me on the outside. So he could take little steps and out pace me.

As I grew tired he began to jerk on the leash and say ''Heel Fido, Heel.''

I tried to keep up, I really did. I wanted to please my Master, but it was so hard. My eyes began to water. Finally he stopped and looked down at me, disapproval etched in his face. I cowered at his feet and whimpered looking up at him with pleading in my eyes. It wasn't just that my knees hurt from following him around, but it was embarrassing for me. And turning me on.

Master then lay down and stretched out. I rushed to him and said ''I am here Master, what can your lowly slave do for his great Master?''

His feet were up, and so I kissed the bottom of them.
Master exploded, slapping me in the face, beating me with his fists, and kicking me.

''You sorry fuck, that's not the order I gave you!''

I cowered before Master. ''I'm sorry Master, please forgive your worthless slave. I will do better Master, I'm sorry Master. I'm sorry Master.''

''You had better do better. I'm going to have to punish you now, and I didn't want to do that.''

''I'm sorry Master.''

''Shut up.'' Master looked down at me cowering at this feet and thought a few minutes.

''I'll punish you later. Get back to work.''

''Yes, Master.''

''Shut the fuck up.''

I was so upset to disappoint Master. It took me a while to figure out that I was supposed to ask him to kiss his feet first.

I went back to work cleaning. The bell rang again. Determined to do better this time, I hurried to the living room, knelt, kissed the bottoms of his feet and said: ''I am here Master, what can your lowly slave do for his great Master?''

''Better, bitch. I just wanted to see if you would do better. Get back to work.''

''Yes, Master.''

A few steps down the hall, the bell rang again. I hurried to Master, hit my knees, kissed his feet and said, ''I am here Master, what can your lowly slave do for his great Master?''

''I just wanted to see you do it again. Back.''

''Yes, Master.''

I got to the door when he rang the bell again. I quickly returned to Master, knelt, kissed his feet, and said, ''I am here Master, what can your lowly slave do for his great Master?''

''Back,'' Master said, some amusement in his voice.

The game was restoring his good spirits. The bell rang again when I was only a few feet away. I turned around, took the three steps back to Master, knelt, kissed his feet, and said, ''I am here Master, what can your lowly slave do for his great Master?''

''Back.''

This time I was only part of the way up when the bell rang again I returned my knees, kissed his feet, and said, ''I am here Master, what can your lowly slave do for his great Master?''

This time there was no 'back', just the bell ringing again. I kissed his feet, and said, ''I am here Master, what can your lowly slave do for his great Master?''

Master kept this up for a few cycles, never letting me off my knees. Finally he tired of the game and sent me back to work.

At the end of the day he said: ''OK, I'll give you a shot. Be back here tomorrow at 9. I want you here. I'll give you a run through to see if I like the way you perform. If I like it, I'll keep you. If I don't, I may just fuck you every so often. Now, here are some rules; One, I like being called 'master' so do that. 'Sir' is OK, but I prefer 'master'. I want to be sure you know your place. Next. I want you to wear that dog-collar for me. From 9pm tomorrow night, I want you on your knees in the center of the living room waiting for me. Have your hands behind your back and your head down. Got that, boy?''

''Yes, Master.''

Well, the rest of the story is pretty raunchy and hair-raising so I'll leave that out. It is from a story entilted, ''Serving a younger Master,'' and is about a man who falls under the spell of a high-school bully. Sound familiar?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 07:02:07 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Wow Pat! Where do you come up with this stuff?
Message:
There sure are some striking similarities in that story.
Embarassing we ever fell for that crap treatment. I hope you make lots of money this summer. Good luck! Tonette
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 08:28:31 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: You don't want to know, Tonette
Message:
Unless you fancy crawling through tons of internet smut.

Thanks for your wishes. I wish you health, wealth and happiness too.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:01:22 (GMT)
From: freethe premies
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: ******BEST of FORUM*****
Message:
thanks Pat, have a good time where you are going.

The Way speed to you! ;) Shine baby!

write,love,

SB

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:58:57 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: starflock@hotmail.com
To: PatC
Subject: the same danger exists everywhere
Message:
Good point about the 'master' word.

But you know what? I think a lot of people want a master -- or a dogma -- or a set guideline of what to do, how to think, what to 'be.' It keeps one from having to think for oneself -- or from having to take responsibility for one's own actions. I see Christians doing it; I see people in military doing it; I see children doing it. It is not good.

I was just remembering that Maharaji talked about 'agya' in a video a year or two ago... He said most people have the wrong definition for it, and that the agya of the [insert word here: Satguru, Guru, Perfect Master] was only what was in direct relation to practicing Knowledge and nothing else. He made it clear that the only agya was the directives he gave specifically in regard to practicing Knowledge -- i.e., satsang, service and meditation (or listening, participating and practicing, in the vernacular of the day). I like it when I hear him say things like this and I am taking him for his word on it.

banana bai

P.S. PatC, it is understood that your lack of response does not mean you agree with anything I say. We know you need to stop posting!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:08:48 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: what a fish you are!
Message:
You said:

I was just remembering that Maharaji talked about 'agya' in a video a year or two ago... He said most people have the wrong definition for it, and that the agya of the [insert word here: Satguru, Guru, Perfect Master] was only what was in direct relation to practicing Knowledge and nothing else. He made it clear that the only agya was the directives he gave specifically in regard to practicing Knowledge -- i.e., satsang, service and meditation (or listening, participating and practicing, in the vernacular of the day). I like it when I hear him say things like this and I am taking him for his word on it.

insanity! dogggy dogggy...psss talk like a parrot. You look goooooooood.NOT

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 19:52:54 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: sb
Subject: Maharaji quotes...
Message:
The funny thing about quoting anything Maharaji says, is that if you really start to scrutinize what he says, you will find that he contradicts himself quite a bit. And if you point this out to premies, they usually reconcile these contradictions by saying, ''It's not the WORDS that are important, it's THAT FEELING''.

I would conceed that M. has said some beautiful things sometimes. If he only ever said crap, all the time, why would any of us have bothered in the first place? It was the beautiful stuff that got us hooked. Because people here are angry, that anger can color their perception of everything he says and does. That is only natural.

But the beautiful things he says are not original, and have often been said by other people, and said better. All the things he says that may sound nice are used to build up to the one thing he teaches; that YOU NEED HIM, THE MASTER. That is all he really teaches. He says some nice things, some generic universal truths, to garnish the crap and lend it credibility.

Banana bai said:
''I was just remembering that Maharaji talked about 'agya' in a video a year or two ago... He said most people have the wrong definition for it, and that the agya of the [insert word here: Satguru, Guru, Perfect Master] was only what was in direct relation to practicing Knowledge and nothing else. He made it clear that the only agya was the directives he gave specifically in regard to practicing Knowledge -- i.e., satsang, service and meditation (or listening, participating and practicing, in the vernacular of the day). I like it when I hear him say things like this and I am taking him for his word on it.''

I always liked it too, when he would actually say something that made sense, something I could relate to or that sounded freedom affirming. But as Marianne has pointed out in this thread, M. can say one thing about agya, then do another. You cannot hold him to anything he says. His agya means whatever the hell he wants it too, when he wants it to. He is the Master of revisionism, revising ''the truth'' to be whatever he wants it to be at any given time. A priviledge that God reserves for himself? And if you are a GOOD premie, you won't question the purity of the Master. How convenient.

He cannot be trusted, because he LIES, repeatedly. In the end, the biggest thing that caused me to break with him was the lies and the secrecy. I feel so much better now not trying to reconcile myself with someone who does not tell the truth, and has secrets. How can a lying, secretive person propagate anything truthful? Where is his credibility?

I don't mean to be overly critical of Banana bai, she actually seems like a nice person. I still have premie friends, I'm not on a mission to convert premies. I just wanted to comment because, well, some of the things she says reminds me of myself several months ago.

I've enjoyed reading your posts, SB, sounds like you are really having fun. Good for you!

- Chuck Sprague,
who thinks it's very funny that Guru is Greater than God, but the French News Media is apparently greater than them both!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 23:13:46 (GMT)
From: joe100@freeserve.co.uk
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Maharaji quotes...
Message:
well done! how right and TRUE your words sound! How much longer will they deceive themselves by listsning to him deceive them?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 05:03:22 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: joe100@freeserve.co.uk
Subject: Welcome, Joe100...
Message:
Hello Joe.

Good question. That's why I kick in my two cents worth here now and again. After supporting M's ''work'' financially for years, I also feel obligated to undo a bit of the damage that may have been done, by helping others out of the deception.

When I first realized there was a wall of secrecy around M's finances, I was upset to think he spent most of it on himself. After learning more about what he's been doing, I now hope he DID spend it on himself, instead of sucking other people into his cult.

It was the lies and secrecy, AND being a volunteer on one of his Commitees for many months, that really made me face up to what was going on, and made me want to leave. Seeing the Atlanta Training Seminar video about propagation was the straw that boke the camel's back. It was cold and creepy, what I would associate with something like the Moonies.

Where was all the love and the good vibes that drew me into being interested in M's knowledge in the first place? It's not in any of his human-dog training seminars, I'm sure of that. It's all tainted with lies and deceptions. I hung in their because I got something out of meditation. But I still enjoy that without the urug, even more so now, actually. I would have been better off with a good yoga instructor. M. has become a real embarassment. He can't face the news media, because he's been telling lies. What he's been doing won't hold up to scrutiny.

I guess people see through the deceptions when and if they are ready to. They find new information, and at first they deny it. But slowly it sinks in. Some resist it more than others. I had to read this site, on and off, over two years, letting the new information assimilate. Eventually it reached critical mass.

It's not easy, but for me there was a point where it became easier to really look at everything and admit the truth, painful as it was, instead of continuing to make excuses. When you can really look at everything honestly without decieving yourself, it all starts to get better. The paradigm shift is the hard part, but it truely starts to get better after that. RELIEF!

Everyone has their own story to tell. I hope we will hear more from you.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:09:43 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: Recent agya unconnected to knowledge
Message:
banana bai, Captain Rawat recently had a premie contact Mike Finch, one of the first western premies, who had begun posting here. Mike is no longer a devotee of M. Anyway, the premie who contacted Mike told him that Maharaji had given Mike agya not to post on the forum. Obviously, this agya had nothing to do with the practice of knowledge -- only with trying to control the actions of someone M wanted to muzzle.

You cannot trust his words. The meaning changes with his whims.

Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 00:12:19 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: Bai Ji, watching you open up here on the forum
Message:
has tempted me back all over again. I think you are so sweet and honest and sincere that you are like a breath of fresh air compared with the nastier PWKs who post insults here.

I left for 17 years (but kept practicing the yoga techs) and then went back last year. I found it so disgusting that I decided to really find out what was wrong. What's wrong, I discovered, is the whole idea of a leader. Yuk. I'm a democrat.

I prefer getting high with a little help (satsang) from you guys. Rev Rawat's satsang is too polluted with his ego and blatherings about his personality. I am not interested in worshipping his personality or the latest watch he has added to his collection.

I look forward to talking with you as long as you don't pull the UFO thingy on me. Okay? ;)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:02:39 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: You do contribute greatly
Message:
But I'm posting a little less myself now, life itself is more important, and can use up a lot of time. Good luck with all the work!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:07:46 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: Thanks, Bob
Message:
And I always read your posts too. I hope you get in touch with me. I wish you everything of the best in your new home.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 19:32:22 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: PatC, I'll miss you...
Message:
but it is quite difficult to keep up with these posts when you don't have time.

Be well,
Love,
Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:47:32 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Then email me. The forum is a full-time job
Message:
and I already have one of those. The next three months I will be doing 14 hour days as I make most of my income in summer. Like you, I cannot keep up with all the posts but the newcomers keep luring me back.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 12:41:25 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: folie a deux
Message:
In the thread below about the killing I read 2 things: obviously psychosis of the killer, but something else too, which I have seen,mostly in the early ashram years, when every community still had a local color: In psych books this is called 'folie a deux' (craziness for two), but it describes shared hallucinations, delusions, and phenomena in a closed, isolated group. The cult as a whole has this phenomenon of course, by which most members really do feel something during darshan, etc.
But here I want to refer to individual ahrams or communities.
I myself lived in a 3 person- and a 2 person ashram for a while.
In the first one we became convinced that there was a secret 5th technique. Although we never found out we got very exited, and had very strong experiences (even tasted nectar).
The other ashram : we became convinced that real yogis and mahatmas never sleep. I don't know how we did it, but we managed to do entirely without sleep for a month! meditating all night. The two of us managed to get up to 30 people in satsang every night, many of whom got knowledge. The spell was broken when , headquarters noticed that we were different somehow. 2 notoriously 'heavy' premies were transferred and the spell was broken.
In Ireland ,on vacation in '77 ,I met some premies who told me that the premies in Ireland started having shakes and undeliberate movements in meditation. This quickly spread in their community. they asked rawat, who replied that it was all in their mind.
There must be many of those stories, mine are not that malicious,
would be interested to hear some...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 13:50:34 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: folie a deux
Message:
Read this, Miracle Man.

Getting your Z's

By Lisa St. Martin
Flat Hat Variety Editor

Crunch time: two papers and 100 pages of reading with six more hours before class. It can be done. Just put on another pot of coffee, pop another caffeine pill and pull another all-nighter.

Making this a frequent habit can be harmful, though. According to sleep specialist Dr. Tom Bond, the director of the Sleep Disorders Center for Adults and Children in the Williamsburg Community Hospital, a continual lack of sleep can lead to anything from irritability and nausea to, in an extreme case, death.

Bond, who holds a doctorate in clinical psychology, explains that staying awake for more than 20 days will probably result in death. He notes, however, that the current world record for staying awake is 11 days.

Based on correlated data, there is an increased risk of mortality for those who continually get an average of less than seven hours of sleep a night. Additionally, sleep deprivation increases the risk of fatal car accidents. Though lack of sleep does not cause any permanent brain damage, it does have other side effects that are detrimental to someone's general well-being.

The effects of sleep deprivation include mood swings, irritability, influenced judgement, depression, lowered ability to deal with stress, difficulty learning, difficulty retaining information, nausea, hormone problems, failure to process information and sleepiness.

'If you're sleepy you don't do anything as well except sleep, and you can do that real well,' Bond said.

Bond advises students to getting about eight hours of sleep. Those who are 18 or 19 years old should actually be getting eight-and-a-half to nine hours per night. The need for sleep decreases the older you get.

Many benefits make sleep important. According to Bond, when you sleep, there is a change in brain waves. A lack of awareness develops, while the heart rate and respiratory systems slow down and become regular.

Every 90 minutes during the night you slip into rapid eye movement, when dreams take place and voluntary muscles are paralyzed. During REM sleep, sexual excitation occurs despite what you are dreaming about. When deprived of sleep, the body still enters all stages of sleep. However, the times for each stage are shortened, not allowing the body to completely rejuvenate itself.

The best thing is to keep good sleep hygiene: go to bed around the same time each night, and get up around the same time each morning. If you maintain a sleep schedule that allows for only five hours of sleep a night, your body won't adjust.

Power naps, according to Moses, are sometimes helpful, but only when not going beyond 20 minutes.

A month, huh? I'd call the Guiness Book Of World Records if I were you. They've got the wrong name listed for longest stretch without sleep. And you did this while you were meditating. Christ, when I'm tired and I practice K, I'm out like a light within 15 minutes due to boredom. I don't know how anybody can last a month! You truly are amazing.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 21:17:50 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Ahem!
Message:
I must admit that, for the sake of storytelling, I did not mention that, just like the birds sleep on branches, we did take naps on the beragon.....
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 15:08:58 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: folie a deux
Message:
hmm dunno about that below 7 hours theory. Maggie thatcher (as one example among MANY) survives on about 4 to 5 hours per night and has done for decades. She's still an old battleaxe poking hernose into all sorts of the things.

My brother was an officer in the Royal Navy ( damn traitor to Ireland :)) ) ....in his 20's he reduced 6 to 7 hours per night to about 5 over a period of time. Changed the alarm clock by 10 mins or so each night. This was common in the Navy. He survived adequately on below 7 for years. I think the crucial thing is getting genuine DEEP sleep even if it's only 20 mins or so per night.

...Maybe Bob THOUGHT he hadn't slept for a month. Some of that all night meditation could have been like mine ie drifting in and out of sleep, dream reverie, weird astral stuff ...))

Cheers

Dermot

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 11:56:53 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: satguru to teacher - The Story So Far.
Message:
Let's see if I've got this straight.

1971 M comes to England proclaiming not to be God, but to be greater than God. 'I can show you god face to face'. His organisation is called Divine Light Mission.
1971 - 1976 Tells followers to leave their families, careers, pets and live in his ashrams. No sex, meat eating, drinking, smoking, just working all day and giving all their money to the Mission,doing service or listening to satsang all evening, and meditating at least one hour a day. Announces 'festivals' at short notice all over the world to which devotees must go, thereby losing jobs and getting into debt. Meanwhile, miragey is smoking dope, (illegal)drinking (under-age)and sleeping with blonde devotees (!) between driving his increasing collection of expensive cars and having flying lessons, courtesy of his loyal devotees... In 1976 he gets married to air stewardess without telling his premies. Most find out through newspaper reports. Consternation, his family are divided and (step?) mother and two brothers disown him. Big trouble, Raja ji sides with M and bugs one of the mission buildings around this time, taking tapes to M to listen to selected excerpts. (Illegal) During the travels from one country to another for his festivals, cash is smuggled across borders to pay for his luxury lifestyle. (Illegal)

Oh blimey, I'm getting tired and I'm only upp to 1976. I can't go on...

Maybe I'll tackle 1976 - 1984 some other time. I need some fresh air!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 14:06:47 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: Important bit of untruth
Message:
A correction there. Maharaji didn't tell everyone to join the ashram. Those rules only applied to people who *chose* to live in the ashram. And by the way, he was also 13 and 14 years old and actually only conceding with 'business as usual' when it came to ashrams, which already existed before he became the Satguru.

There is a point that when you are aggravated by someone, it doesn't matter what s/he says, does, wears or looks like: it aggravates you their mere existence. I used to be that way about my brother when we were kids, LOL. All he had to do was enter the room and I was disgusted. I hated his haircut and considered him repulsive-looking even though my friends thought my little brother was 'adorable.' The point I am trying to make here is that what I see a whole lot of on this website, which really isn't helping anyone do anything but vent spleen, is the tendency to put down and hate every single aspect of Maharaji. That's just entirely irrational and causes one to use very inaccurate arguments, such as the one where you say Maharaji told followers to 'leave their families,' etc. That is totally untrue. Shoot, I know people who *never* lived in an ashram at that time and they considered themselves to be 'devoted' and I as an ashram premie thought of them as devoted also. Just because they didn't choose to live in a monastic lifestyle did *not* exclude them from being 'true premies' -- except in the minds of the holier-than-thou people on spiritual ego trips -- of which, YES, there were many.

But please, be accurate.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:50:47 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: accurate like you? hmmmm NT
Message:
zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:00:40 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: Important bit of untruth - not important
Message:
compared to the untruths miragey's told over the years! I really think you'd be better off writing to him, not me. But of course, then you wouldn't get a reply, he's far too busy to bother with you. I wasn't trying to be particularly accurate, and I knew someone would nitpick. I was just reviewing the general history of the mission so far, trying to get my head round all the u-turns he's done since I first went to satsang in 1972, as a pre-rough draft of my forthcoming book 'From Satguru to teacher, a brief personal account by a former follower whose brain has been stunted by her master's dizzyingly inconsistent teachings over the last 27 years.' I may have to shorten the title a little. You're in denial and clutching at straws, it seems to me. All the facts are here in the archives.

M certainly implied very strongly that ashrams were the place where you could be 'saved'. That ws the message I got, I can't actually quote, but then you don't have total accurate recall either. He had special ashram meetings,and once in the ashram most premies didn't get a chance to see anyone, they were too busy working and going to satsang and falling asleep meditating. The work was to support miragey's luxurious lifestyle, by the way. Just like the papers and all my friends said! The whole atmosphere of renouncing 'the world' made me feel I wasn't really devoted enough because I wanted to finish my degree and didn't go to satsang every night. That was my experience, and I don't care how much you want to justify him, he's preached one lot of values and lived his life totally at odds with them, in secret from the vast majority of his premies. That's why he's not to be trusted, listened to or respected. When you finally realise that, if you ever do, you'll be glad of a place to get it all off your chest, where you'll be heard and supported as you adjust your evaluation of a chunk of your life. Ex- Premies vent their spleen because they need to, and that's what this site is here for, partly. You'll see, when you finally take in all the strangely similar accounts of his abuse of premies, his illegal activities etc etc.

There's at least one story about m not allowing one of the premies to attend his father's funeral. Even one is too many for such a 'compassionate' enlightened soul, And look at the way he's treated Anne Johnson - check out some of the other sites (see Sir Dave's link below) where it's laid out very easily from all the material in these archives. It's all there, you just don't want to see it. The horror story goes on and on...unless you were around him, you didn't get to see it so obviously. I've had a couple of premies tell me in the past that it's not easy being around him, people fry, burn up and you have to be very strong. Why's that? Could be cos he's a two-faced abusive spoilt brat who never grew up enough to be honest with himself about the whole 'greater than god' thing. He dumped that message when it got incovenient. No concern about the truth there! How can you follow someone who re-invents their message, changes instructions (you remember 'constantly meditate...turned to 'how can you meditate all the time? You're stupid to think that - just do your hour a day...'or words to that effect. I was a bit surprised by the tone of his voice when I heard that, like we'd made it up ourselves! And finally, of course, there's the whole Jagdeo abuse issue, which on its own is enough to show m up for what he is. Gutless, selfish, unfit to teach a dog and still pretending he's got something to give. Truth is, we're the givers, he's the taker, and he's afraid of having to fend for himself if he admits he's less than divine. He keeps his wife chained to him to look respectable, threatening her with not seeing the children if she leaves. Come on, wake up!!!!

Stop trying to defend him, it's a losing battle.
Jani.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:25:49 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: The only bit of untruth in your post . . .
Message:
was about the injunction to meditate an hour a day. It was two hours a day, one in the morning and one in the evening.

Keep up the good work, Jani, been enjoying your posts.

Love,
Joy

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 22:24:31 (GMT)
From: Tim G
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: I agree banana ji. Accuracy crucial.
Message:
Accuracy is the first casualty of partisanship.
I think our case is made stronger by accurate observations. But of course it is accurate to say that I think m is a deluded meglomaniac and needs to grow up spiritually. It's accurate to say that it is my opinion.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 15:09:47 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: You sound familiar
Message:
Like I read the archives a lot, catching up on stuff I've missed, and there are bells ringing in my noggin.

Can't quite place you yet, but it'll come....I seem to have a knack for this.

Right now I'm thinking, maybe, shroomananda? or Turner?

OK don't mind me, carry on Mr Christian banana Rama.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:15:24 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: starflock@hotmail.com
To: Bazza
Subject: Bazza, what is your e-mail address?
Message:
I'd rather continue this conversation in private if you don't mind.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:42:12 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: bshaw8@bellsouth.net
To: banana bai
Subject: No problem
Message:
There it is above.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:09:23 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: You sound familiar
Message:
Oh fuck. =)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:04:32 (GMT)
From: freetheass
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: Why fuck?
Message:
daddy chachashi teaches you that? LOL Of course, I heard is one of his favorities words. What a master we have. Huyyyyyyyy. :0

A question: What would happen to Banana if she/he left the cult?

thanks,

sb

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 14:53:02 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: Very true Ms Banana Bai
Message:
Banana Bai wrote:

'what I see a whole lot of on this website, which really isn't helping anyone do anything but vent spleen, is the tendency to put down and hate every single aspect of Maharaji'

Very true and wise words. He's got some nice cars and properties and some of the women he's had in bed are definitely not hateful. I certainly wouldn't kick 'em out of bed.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 15:00:57 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Very true Ms Banana Bai
Message:
put down and hate every single aspect of Maharaji'.

I thought that was the idea, but on the other what aspects of guguji should I re-consider? Tell me pleeattzz.

I must be missing something.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 15:26:21 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: banana
Subject: ...hate every aspect of m?
Message:
You've been around long enough to start contributing something meaningful, so why don't you tell us what aspects of m we could possibly not hat? They have to be real, though, not just the ones he's told you! Some original thinking is called for here, trawl through your own experiences of the fat one and let us know, please. Oh, and read some of the personal, real life experiences of former premies in Journeys before you come back, too, or ealse I'm not speaking to you again. One of the effects of being in m's cult (without even knowing it's a cult, of course) is that he separates you from your own feelings, because you daren't express or feel any doubt - he's told you not to,often enough, hasn't he? So where does that doubt go? It gets all rolled up in fear and put away in your subconscious mind with a big skull and-crossbones sign on it, and a 'do not Disturb or you will become rotting vegetables and never attain liberation...' Then in tiny print below this, there's 'says the boy guru, in one of his many brain-washing events.' But cos you've been scared, you never get close enough to see that bit.

And the wrapping and storing process uses up valuable energy that eventually leaves you scarcely able to string an original, coherent thought together - and presto! Another life-long devotee. I was a life-long devotee, so I thought, I gave that man the best years of my life and what do I have to show for it? Nothing but a few dusty old photos, which apparently m would be annoyed to know I had - they're in a case by the door waiting for my next trip to the dump, actually, I'm worried that burning them may release toxic fumes that could re-infect me...Ha ha, just joking. The paranoia's pretty much worn off now, thanks.

Anyway, speak from your heart or don't bother, that's what I say, I know m hasn't let you do that for a long, long time, and I know that one day you'll bless this forum and everyone on it for showing you that you can disobey the master and live a perfectly fine, fulfilled and much more prosperous and meaningful life. See, you could be in touch with what you really think and start being yourself again - (if you're a real person at all, of course, and until now you've given no indication that you are.)

I just find writing this helps clarify what I'm going through. By the way, I realised today that one of my best songs is actually about m, how wonderful it ws to find him, etc. and that's now obsolete, which is making me a bit angry on my own behalf, so that's good! Now, who should I write to next? Ah yes, my MP. Bye bye banana.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 09:51:47 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Moron Rawat not showing up in Versailles
Message:
Rawat didn't show up on saturday.

According to journalists who were waiting for him, there was a flight plan for his jet (N-54PR) to land in Le Bourget Saturday morning 2:00 am.

The jet didn't land .........

What's going on? Rawat, are you scared ? Are you hiding anything?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 07:45:57 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: He was late because.....
Message:
Didn't you hear? He was sleeping off a bodacious drunk!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 23:23:39 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Moron Rawat not showing up in Versailles
Message:
And of course there could be a number of reasons. He or a family member might for instance have a medical emergency. Maharaji is not known for no-shows. It will be interesting, though, to find out the 'official word.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:31:29 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: WHAT???
Message:
m. is not known for no shows...

In my time as a premie he was known for no shows

(of course this was caused by the premies not really wanting to have darshan.....)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:13:02 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: WHAT??? Yes, I remember...
Message:
When i first started going to satsang, m was in the country and there ws nothing but no shows - endless anticipation, hysteria, 'he'll come if we really want him to..' It was incredibly frustrating and we sat for hours on end in cramped, hot, smelly halls vainly hoping he'd turn up, to sit in the chair with the white sheet on it. Then there was Rome, never knew what was going on there, 1977 I think, when we all got locked in and the hall was too full. How things have changed! I think Banana wasn't around then, or just has a very selective memory. Then after a couple of years, m suddenly started using the atomic clock and went on about how he insisted everything started on time to the second...Erratic, unpredictable, obssessive, and now just very boring. The last video I saw, unintentionally, at a friend's house three weeks ago, I was trying to find something interesting, inspiring or just comprehensible, but i really couldn't. Nothing. I had to fight to keep awake. Much like now, in fact.

Nite!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:50:26 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: being locked in halls
Message:
I just read Mary M's account of this happening to her in Rome, as she tried to care for a sick young child.
They did the same thing to me at a different 'festival' and i swear I don't know what I would have done if they hadn't given up after shoving me and my 2 kids and me shoving back and telling the goons 'fuck off' . This type of activity bordered on the scary cult stuff. We are all very lucky the mass hysteria never got as bad as it could have, the seeds were there.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 02:26:40 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: being locked in halls - yes, scary ! The kids w..
Message:
were always just a 'problem' for security, no love and compassion there at all. We were lucky it didn't end in a stampede or something - what if there'd been a fire? Course, it's gone to the opposite extreme now, under the excellent direction of our all-knowing pilot, aka miragey. Did you see a thread about a small local video event somewhere in US, when an EV official came to check it was being run according to the rules...I think it was this site. Very funny! And telling of m's state of mind...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 03:41:08 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: just tried to answer you got locked up
Message:
I agree, the new way is boring as hell, the old was scary and creepy.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 13:12:40 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: CHICKEN-COWARD-LIAR-IRRESPONSIBLE-FAKE
Message:
What a good news to wake up to. He is going to have to face the music he likes it or not. I just hope taht he can have the dicency to be honest in some point and he begins to spill the beans. The premies need to be let go. I detest the power he has over people, innocent people. Ignorant mean maharaji....

JM I wish you answer my mail when you have a minute. I'm sending it now.

SB

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:16:48 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Moron Rawat
Message:
He arrived around at noon in Versailles today (sunday), followed by the police, 2 other police cars waiting for him.

He and his escort were very nervous.

Lots of journalists an TV reporters there, also inside the building.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 15:18:34 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: all
Subject: I feel so, so sorry for him
Message:
I really am, but I see that it was necesary.
I wonder what is him going to make of all this, what his understanding will be.

:(

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:23:58 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: all
Subject: I am a moron, fine. NT
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:34:47 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: sb
Subject: Huh? What did you mean? NT
Message:
NT
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:06:08 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Huh? What did you mean? NT
Message:
because I felt sorry for rat and his premies. I DO have a heart.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 03:14:26 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: sb
Subject: Compassion is not stupid ...
Message:
... it just shouldn't be used as an excuse to not do what needs to be done, like opposing what Rawat is doing. You are not using it an excuse, so I don't think it's stupid for you to feel sorry for them.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 14:55:20 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Press kit re Versailles on EV french site.
Message:
There is link to a 'dossier de presse' at Élan Vital's french site on the Réponses page. It is in pdf format and is dated 24-May-2001.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 14:26:34 (GMT)
From: WMary
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: No mention of Event Cancellation......
Message:
over at EV automated phone answering machine: 1-818-888-0500, or at the EV Web Site.

Maybe like the old adage says: 'The Show Must Go On!' (or was that..'Go To Jail...Go Directly to Jail...Do not Pass the Darshan Bucket...Do Not Collect 200 Dollars...)

Can't wait to hear more. I have heard that the not-yet-confirmed event in Massachusetts may not get confirmed. Someone has tipped off local news stations and newspapers. Northeast Premies are stirring that someone within the ranks may have let this one out of the bag prematurely.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:29:41 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I hope the journalists were truly interested ...
Message:
in this experience, that thing, coming with open minds and closed wallets. I supppose he'd have had to refund registration fees or something if he hadn't come. Do you have a mole there to see what happens/hear what he's saying?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:08:44 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Glen Miller..Robert Maxwell..Bermuda Triangle? (nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 09:56:40 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I forgot: TV info on m today prime time
Message:
There will be a few minutes information on Rawat and EV on the main public TV channel (France 2) today, 1:00 pm OR 8:00 pm

I'll keep you informed on both issues, but please let me enjoy my weekend.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:07:16 (GMT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: If he were a politician/statesman...
Message:
it could be said he had developed a case of 'diplomatic' flu. Fat boy is on the run. It will be interesting to discover the official reason given to the disappointed Rawatians.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:05:21 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: You're a star... enjoy your time off! nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:15:13 (GMT)
From: A jewel from bellow
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The craziness of maharaji's ASHRAMS
Message:
Doug is a premie who Richard explains bellow killed a woman and wounded others.

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 15:13:46
From: Richard Wallace
Email: expremie@home.com
To: Gerry
Subject: yes, please continue Richard, thanks. (nt)

Message:

I first met Doug Briggs in 1971 after moving to Tallahassee that year. Shared an apt. with him and a couple other guys at one point. After being in this apt for a couple months I heard of M and went to India where i was initiated. (I asked M directly if he would initiate me. He just scowled at me said he didn't have time and referred me to the mahatmas.)
It didn't take too long before DLM started feeling dead just like other religions and I lost interest. Unfortunately, some of the programming must have stuck. About a year after leaving I had a mushroom trip in which I thought I experienced M as the same as the source of my own being. I got involved again and shortly thereafter moved into the ashram. Doug had been coming over to talk about metaphysics for some time and when I got involved with M again he also became interested. A short while later he had been initiated and moved into the ashram also.

This was in 1973. A few months after moving in, the ashram was moved to St. Louis to support Soul Rush. In late '73 or early '74 Doug moved out and went back to Tallahassee. A short time later I fell in love with a woman in the premie community and moved out.

Meanwhile, Doug had got together with a woman in Tallahassee and moved out to Denver. While I was in a premie house in St. Louis I started feeling pretty confused. I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life in the ashram and here I was living with a woman - I'd never shared a bed with a woman before this and all the changes were quite overwhelming. Doug came through on a trip from Denver to Tallahassee and spent a few days with us.

I told him how I was feeling and he had a whole paranoid explanation ready. Now, as a little background, pretty much everone on this premie house had experienced things like seeing figures of light, some entity entering there bodies during meditation, that sort of thing. Many of us were a littled weirded out by all this 'phenomenon'. So Doug's paranoia dovetailed right in with this atmosphere.

Doug and I ended up spending the whole night talking. Doug explained that Leslie, my girlfriend, was being used by dark forces in the house to subvert my free will. By the next morning I felt like I was about to lose it. Ended up walking aroung the streets trying to settle down. It really did feel like a bad acid trip. Scariest thing that's ever happened to me. I just wanted to get away from everyone and sort things out.

Ended up going to Tallahassee with Doug (which was a mistake). We picked up another guy there and drove up to Amherst for the festival there. The whole way Doug was playing really vicious mind games. By the time we got to Amherst, I really wanted to get away from Doug. I remember him sneering at premies in general saying, 'The puppy is loose'.

Got back together with my girlfriend and we went back to St. Louis, made some money and moved out to Denver. About six months later I walked in the door to our apt. one day and my girlfriend told me to sit down, she had something to say. This is when I learned that Doug had driven back to Tallahassee and shot three girls.

I later learned that he'd got his girlfriend pregnant. At first he said he was going to help out. But then he began doing things like sit outside in below freezing weather with very little clothing on. His girlfriend told me later she thought he was trying to freeze himself to death. For some reason being confronted with this pregnancy triggered something in him.

I visited him maybe a year later in a mental institution in Fla where he'd been locked up after the murder. Before the shootings he said he'd thought everyone had wizardly powers and could harm him. He drove up and down the Fla Turnpike afraid to put the pistol down he'd bought after being attacked by his girlfriend's ex-boyfriend probably a year and a half earlier.

I think it was about a year after visiting him in the institution that I called there and was told he'd been sent back to Tallahassee to stand trial. I called the Tallahassee jail and was told Doug had hung himself the night before he was to stand trial.

I myself was a mess for at least a year after spending the night talking with Doug. Would spend hours shaking. I felt that at anytime I could just go off the deep end. The fear finally subsided and I haven't experienced anything like this since.

Extra sad story maharaji, I see BLOOD in your hands, you pig.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 14:11:27 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: None
To: A jewel from bellow
Subject: The craziness of an individual
Message:
That is so FUCKED for you to blame Maharaji for the fact that Doug was psychotic. What bullshit.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 04:36:59 (GMT)
From: silvia/sb
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: you are fucked up! Cult member- SCRAM
Message:
OR STAY AND BE LOGICAL, YOU ASS.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 00:35:40 (GMT)
From: Richard Wallace
Email: expremie@home.com
To: banana bai
Subject: The craziness of an individual
Message:
Doug was indeed psychotic. I knew him for about 3 years before the shootings took place. I had know idea he was in such trouble till the shootings but he did have some really out there ideas. I agree one can't blame his psychosis on Maharaji, but I think the experience of trying to follow Maharaji's teachings and living in the ashram were not at all good for Doug.
Rick W
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 14:40:38 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: You probably have a good point there Banana Bai..
Message:
Chances are ..Any group the culprit happened to be involved with at the time would have triggered his psychotic explosion.

Without really knowing all the background information and the individuals real motives and make-up it's hard to blame Mr Rawat PERSONALLY for the incident.

It's sad and tragic but to shift the blame here seems a little over the top. That's my opinion anyway.

Cheers

Dermot.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 04:42:24 (GMT)
From: silvia/SB
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: which makes his cult irresponsible,
Message:
without common sense of the consequences of the bad teachings I received and the type of people he appeals too: VULNERABLE.

My God, I couldn't at times love the man, so much duality in his double messages. I went crazy in a service that landed on me and stupidly accepted. I had to learn by heart what EACH video was about because I was the aspirant contact!!! I had to know what video would manipulate this and that type of person. I had to be clear=empty. Be HIS robot!

Don't get me started.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 21:30:43 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Dermot and banana bai
Subject: probably have a good point there BUT..
Message:
I agree with you to a point. Of course any cult attracts people who are borderline psychotic. These people would have had episodes anyway....BUT:

There was ,partially official, the understanding that k. and m. would take care of these problems, which gave false hope

('Give me all your doubts and I will give you peace of mind')
(This nectar will heal all ailments)

So people stopped taking medications or did not seek professional help.
What did not help either was the extreme lack of sleep ashram premies often had. A normal person would become grouchy or drowsy, but I know myself that only a few years after a near fatal LSD experiment, I needed lots and lots of sleep. This is true for most people with mental illness.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:34:59 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: A jewel from bellow
Subject: yes it should be kept with the other stories
Message:
I think this story should be added somewhere, perhaps to the
Shattered Lives
link Dave has set up?

btw to Mary M if you are around :
just read your story on that link , about your daughter in Rome festival, for the first time.
It was eerie how similar it was to things I went through as a young mother. My sympathies especially related to how the high fever in your daughter resurfaced in a young adult illness.
I have a similar story but will relate it some other time.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:33:25 (GMT)
From: clarification
Email: None
To: A jewel from bellow
Subject: The craziness of maharaji's ASHRAMS
Message:
The last remark belongs to SB
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:37:08 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: thread
Subject: no the one before this is mine hahaha
Message:
All day my posts have been misread and or read in reverse order or in a parallel universe or something. Too funny :)
Do all ex's have ADD or what? kidding!!!!!!
(SB posted the original post in this thread )
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:44:35 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: no the one before this is mine hahaha
Message:
yes, I'm the one bringing the 'jewels'.

I forgot to sign original post.

SB

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 23:28:09 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Jagdo rapes me in a dream; in struggle,I kill him
Message:
It begins at dusk in a sparse and scattered town somewhere in the hinterlands of america. the town is a series of buildings along a highway, the nexus is one stoplight, where another highway crosses it going north-south.
I am dressed to go out for an evening, to meet friends of mine who are 'lapsed premies', that is, they practice, but we all like the nightlife when we can get it. In this little burg, that means a tiny coffeehouse down by the cross streets, with booths and an open microphone and gourmet coffee we bring in ourselves, and the owner of the deli/diner has the bakery next door make us special desserts, to go with our great coffee, on the nights he reserves the shop just for us. He does this two nights a week, thursdays and saturdays, and ppeople drive in for miles around to be there every week. other than that, life out in this area is forlorn, dusty, mournful and barren.
There is a bus to the town crossroads, that comes down the highway from the much more affluent suburb that lies miles off, to the south, and to catch it, it is my habit to cross the highway on foot and wait in the tiny truckstop, across the road, and drink a hot or cold drink of the season sitting at a window table, and watch the horizon for the bus appearing, well off in the distance. It is chilly tonight. I am in a tight miniskirt and silky blouse and heels. I think i look passably hot and ready to rock, even for this town. I figure on being with my friends shortly, so any whistles i get for my looks, i expect to just smile and wave off, since I'm not just out cruising for trouble and I will be at my usual hangout soon. I go in and order a hot coffee and look around for a seat to watch from. The tiny dining area is glass on three sides and the order counter on the north wall. The only spot open is at a two seater stool table in the center, at which is seated a tiny, wiry little man of weathered middle age. In the dream I don't know him as anything but a figure from the town landscape, no name. I believe i have seen him driving one of the buses before, but he isnt very relevant to my itinerary tonight. I approach the empty stool and ask if its ok if i sit here till my bus arrives. He answers cordially, in a strange, high, cracked and accented voice, and his eyes strike me as oddly shiny. He gestures to me to sit, obviously taking in my evening dress with pleasure. I curse to myself and bet that he thinks I'm a hooker coming on to him; the town is full of em: trashy, desperate women who prey on the drivers coming thru on the highway, loitering around the traveler's stops, trolling for money, sex and a way out of this hellhole. I am not one of them. But I get the uneasy feeling he takes me for one.
I keep pointedly ooking up the road for the bus and checking my watch, making it evident I am in a hurry and not just displaying myself for sale to the customer.
He tries to engage me in conversation and I give him curt, short answers, not encouraging chat. He deduces by my attire that i am going out somewhere important to me. I reply guardedly yes, i am, meeting friends, waiting for the bus from the city going north.
He smiles expansively and his eyes shine even more, and he gestures expansively 'well, then I can help you'. I eye him warily. 'You can? how?'
'i drive a bus. It's parked out there in the lot. I can take you--and your friends, if you wish--and you won;t have to wait any longer here'
i look at my watch. the bus is overdue and its going on 9 pm. the coffeehouse closes at midnight. I've already missed 2 hours of it, and it's not far, in a vehicle, but impossible in my heels. i size him up for a couple of minutes, pondering, considering the offer. He adds 'if you have any friends who nee a ride, I will be happy to take them too. free of charge. it is my bus. my pleasure' and he waits,with a weird smile that tries to be polite and serviceable but seems straining to conceal something else..
I look around. I see a girlfriend and a guy I know who also go down to town. I get their attention and wave them over, tell them the guy's offer, ask would they like a ride too? They enthusiastically say yes, beats waiting any longer. So i accept and get my coat on, my purse, and slip off the stool to go out to the guy's bus, parked outside. He leads the other two out ahead of me, opens the bus, starts it up, warms it up. Others see this and come inquiring where he goes. He tells them all to get in, he'll take them wherever they like, no matter. People file on and fill most of the seats. He closes the doors and puts the bus in gear and pulls out onto the highway. it is now black night, dusk is gone.
and he turns the wrong way, heading away from town and my coffeehouse, on the highway!
fighting panic, i make my way up to him and ask 'why are you going the wrong way? town is back that way!'
he gives that weird serene, glittery smile and singsongs 'not to worry, we are all going there by one way or another. have faith, i will take you where you want to go. i will take all these people tonight. do not worry. sit down, en-jh'whyyyyyi'
and now i get chills. I stand in the aisle, looking from one face to another, searching for distress. they all seem content, trusting, not a worry. I seem to be the only one freaking out. But i know he's changed things on me. I know this is wrong already, and i don't know what to do.
I turn and order him to stop the bus and let me out. He wheedles me that all is fine, that i should not get out. I step into the doorwell and try to force the doors open, He tells me almost mockingly that what i am doing is very dangerous, and the doors will not open while the bus is traveling. He tries to sound reassuring, but I am like a trapped animal now. I sink back into my seat in a state of watchfull numbness, looking for a chance to escape or hijack this horrible turn of events. One of the guys i know from around town sees my state and changes seats to sit by me. he leans over and discreetly asks if I'm all right. frightened and miserable,I whisper to him my convictions and fears, and what happened back at the truckstop. he nods and fully understands. he assures me he will protect me and stay with me till he gets me back home. I am still frozen in unhappy distrust, knowing that my night at the coffeehouse is gone and the future of the evening is utterly uncertain and unknown now.

He drives on, the bus humming thundrously under us, in the night, people falling asleep against the windows, the lights flashing by hypnotically. I drift into a dremstate, mentally trying to remember if there are any other ways i know to get back, if i can just get off this bus somewhere.

when i awaken, it is late afternoon the next day and the bus is stopped in the parking area of a suburban area at the edge of the big city to the couth. The passengers are getting out, walking around the lot, stretching their legs, and some of them are dispersing to the roadside, others heading up the residential streets. I look for the guy who said he'd protect me, and see him talking to some women, over in the apt complex to this parking lot. The place is built like a series of open air breezeways and courtyards, feels about like a hotel or motel. The residents are poor-white trashy, low income, the lawn dry, the plantings dying, littered with bottles and wrappers blown into the shrubbery.
Little kids riding tricycles on the sidewalk, shouting echoes off the walls, their mothers milling around in the afternoon sun watching them and gossiping. Tv's blare out of various doorways or windows, men are working on their car engines in the side lot. I can see the rise of the affluent neighborhoods, just beyond the next street, chainlinked all the way around, and the city skyscrapers beyond them.
I go to look for my purse and don't see it. The bus is empty now, only I remain in it. Its bare. I glance around again, then out the windows, and the little bus driver is standing on the sidewalk grinning evilly and holds up my purse, and then he turns and heads toward the complex. I see red, and take off in pursuit of him to get my purse back.

He is sauntering at a normal pace and i can't run in my heels. I have to weave in and out of the kids, playing, and residents, milling in my way, and by the time i catch up to him, he's got his ground-floor door unlocked and standing open, and has gone into his room with my bag. I pause at the doorway, gauging my odds whther to go in or stay outside in the breezeway. I yell in at him to give my purse back. He tosses it on the bed in the front room and disappears into a deeper room, probably bedroom or bath or closet. I set my determination, and wait till i think he's out of sight, and plunge into the front room, aiming to grab my purse and get out and run.
In my heels,it's harder than i estimated.
He's faster than i am . As I reach the bed, he surprises me from behind with his hands on my ass.
[it gets hideously graphic from here, so be forewarned: now]
At the touch of his hands on my ass, I turn and try to hit him and he laughs and ducks. I struggle back, trying to get free and trip over the cofeetable, falling down. My tight skirt hampers me from moving agilely and I stuggle. He lunges for me and i roll, now stuck on the carpet between the table legs and the couch/bed.
It's hideous 70's carpeting,matted down, short, red-orange shag, all dirty and worn down. the whole place is gloomy and heavily curtained and dated. From my frustrated vantage point on the carpet, i can see into his other rooms and they're all cheap, ugly, pseudo-fashionable 70's drek: nauseating paintings, bad, dark paneling, thick dark burlap curtains, and the all-electric kitchenette, to the right of the open door, has a solid red formica countertop on awful cabinetting. There's another dark, gloomy, curtained room off to the right of the main one, and I think it's a dining room from what i can make out in my momentary imssion of the place. His place is down at the dead-end of the ground floor breezeway, faced by another door opposite and one at right angles outside to the right, butt-end of the corridor. The late afternoon sunlight is slanting directly on the door opposite-also that burnt red color, like the formica, and the entire complex is painted flat rust brown, like metal primer with no topcoat.
The only visual relief is the bright sun on the white concrete sidewalks and breezeways. Inside the room, everything is gloomy and sickening shades of brown, lime green, avocado, gold, rust and that burnt red. His windows face the setting sun, which would flood the place if he would open the drapes, but he clearly wants the gloom and nobody to see in--or out. The view is probably of the highway and the stores on the far side of it, and the open field between the road and the parking lot. I'm madly struggling to crawl out from between the table and the couchbed, with him behind me, reaching for my crotch up my skirt as he scrambles after me.
I roll onto my back and kick at him with my heels, aiming for his face. The stiletto grazes off his cheek, drawing blood, and he seems to find this enticing. He leers at me and grabs for his crotch, on his knees. As rips at his pants seam i see with horror that there's no stitching there. He need not unzip and take down his pants to penetrate me, he's already exposed!
I kick again and he tries to seize my ankle in midair. I use my other heel to kick at his crotch and he rises amicably and postures as if to say'go ahead, be my guest'. this makes me revile him all the more and i use the moment to scuttle myself backward toward the open door and the kitchenette, looks frantically for a weapon to use against him. something falls on me and i realize it's a broom or a mop of some kind. I quickly swing it into position as a lance at his chest, hesitate, then decide i hate him so much I don't care if i kill him with it. It's self defense.
He comes toward me again and I poise the shaft at his heart. He makes gestures as if to indicate this is all not necessary. I redouble my hate and stab the pole at his heart. It bruises but doesnt break the skin. While he reels from the blow I scramble to my feet and smash the stick over him, breaking it off in a long jagged point. He staggers but doesnt yield. I stab the sharp end into him again and pierce thru his trunk, drawing blood, and withdrawing the weapon to use again.
He grabs his bloody wound and his hands come away bright red and wet. He charges for me heavily and pins me up against the wall, right by the open door. His hand are leaving bloody handprints all over my throat, my chest, the wall, the cabinetry, and he's straining to pull my skirt up and penetrate me, now crazed with intent. I am trying to scream but my voice comes out in a feeble whisper '(NO! NO! NO NO NO NO NO)' As I thrash this way and that, trying to escape his entrapment. His hands feel hideous, the thought of his genitals touching me makes me frantic with revulsion, and he's got me pinned to the wall so i can't wield the sharp pole at close range. I try to scream for help, so the women out in the complex will hear and come running, but there are so many hookers who also use this place for their business, the locals figure I'm just another trick he brought home after work, like he does every day, and they pay no attention, as this is his usual habit in the afternoon, door open and all.
Thsi understanding piques my fury even higher. I spy something heavy out of the corner of my eye, to the left, on his drainboard in the kitchenette. I sag my weight in that direction as we struggle against the wall, and when I'm within reach of it, I grasp it in my fist and bring it up smashing into the back of his head. He's stunned and confounded,relaxes his grip just long enough for me to get out from behind him agian, but he's fallen, blocking the doorway now, writhing on the carpet between me and the escape. I run into the other room, the dining one, and see that the curtains cover a sliding glass door facing the parking lot. I try the door. It's locked. I drag the curtains back, to let a lot of light in, and to let the public see the struggle, if he should come after me again. I hear him moaning. I fiddle with the lock and it won't move. Suddenly I feel his hideous hands seize my hips, my waist, from behind, and he drags me back away from the glass doors into the gloom again, still intent on raping me but good. I force my whispered voice up,to a faint pitch, and hear myself feebly calling (HELP...HELP...HELP...HELP...) to no avail out in the hall.
I finally realize no one is going to come and help, that I have to do this myself, and it's ultimate: I have to finish him off, for all times and all people, forever.
Its a sick knowing I don't feel powerful enough to carry out but i know i must.
I decide that a ruse will have to be a sacrifice to gain time and advantage. I change tacks and suddenly mime to him as if I'm giving in. I beckon him to do it, to go ahead and take what he wants. I reach down for his genitals and grasp, but instead of letting him enter me, I suddenly discover he's already climaxing all over my thigh. i feel the jism shoot out and stick all over my skirt side, soaking in erratically, and he sinks into the inevitable sleep fadeout following his orgasm. He's heavily lying on top of me on the carpet, and I summon the courage to finish it, now, while he's at his weakest and spent and down for the count. I ease myself out from under his dead weight and head into the bedroom and bathroom, looking for something to use to finish him off with out any chance of slip up. I get the spread off his bed and come back and throw it over him and wrap it about him like a mummy burrito, tightly entrapping him inside of it on the floor. I see a tie on the floor of the bedroom and i dash for it, fearful he;'s gonna rise yet again and put me thru all of this, either now or in the future, if i don't kill him once and for all, here and now.
I bind the tie around the cloth, around his neck and knot it tight, making it impossible for him to unroll the wrapper and hoping he will suffocate or strangle with the lack of air inside the space. Still, I don;t feel I've stopped him permanenttly. I'm still scared i haven't stopped him yet. I look around for something else to use, when i see him begin to move and writhe in the coverings. In high and blind frenzy, i finally pick up the coffeetable, raise it up high above him, and in some place from outside myself,and bring it down, again and again, smashing down on his covered form. Blood saturates wherever i make contact. I can't make myself stop. I'm faraway, afraid and seized with a transfixed frenzy that must finish at all costs. He still isn't dead. The form still convulses and writhes in the roll, blood spreading more. In one last sickening bid to stop him forever, I finally turn the table on end and drive it straight down full force with all my might into his chest cavity. I hear the bones break, like glass crunching underfoot, and it's not enough. I let the table topple down flat across him, and climbing up on the couch, I launch myself with one last desperate effort into the air and come down on top of him, using the table surface to flatten him at last.

It's over. He's finally dead. My ears feel stopped up. My head is squeezing and dizzy. The room seems to be pulsing in and out, too hot, too cold, too big, too small, too close, too far,and I'm dazed, in shock with what i did, what i had to do, to stop this. Now
I have killed a person. Will i stand trial for it? go to prison for it? will i be seen as a criminal for taking a man's life? what do I tell the police?
it was self defense. would they hold me for it?
I was raped. I was abducted against my will. I was robbed. was it too much force? did the circumstances warrant it?

I'm nauseous and sick and shaking. I stumble around the rooms, opening windows, opening drapes, getting air, trying to integrate what i have just done.
I stumble into the bathroom, looking for some water to wash my face, and I am shocked at myself in the mirror:
I am covered in blood from the struggle, his last handprints are all smeared across my white blouse, my dark skirt, my face, crusted in my matted hair, congealing on my legs and nylons. His last jism is sticky and fused all down the left thigh on my skirt. I realize that I can't wash up yet, I have to stay like I am for the police to take evidence photos in my defense. I stumble back out thru the rooms, finding my purse on the way, uncertain what to do, but knowing something must happen now.

end of part one

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 02:52:15 (GMT)
From: Scot J
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Jagdo rapes me in a dream; in struggle,I kill him
Message:
A significant dream, so detailed and vivid. I see the little town of the opening of the dream as the humdrum life we all want to transcend, the bus ride as the group adventure we all embarked upon when we felt we were members of Maharaji's communtiies. 'Jagdeo' may represent more than himself here. He may stand for the abuses inflicted upon people who trusted in various untrustworthy others associated with Knowledge. The rape apartment, described in amazingly extensive detail, where the real intention of Jagdeo becomes clear, is like the realization of how much, how closely, the involvement with Maharaji affects you. Your voice, too weak to reach others, though it is calling out in desperation, is like the voice of your conscience muffled by the overlaying of your programming that everything is fine. The tapeworm - all the beliefs that you have internalized from others over the years that are not really from yourself. The slow-to-notice-you or take you seriously police are like the non premie people who don't understand what you have been through. The somewhat helpful police who take your 'samples' and notice you at least : the 'Ex' people on this site, mostly anonymous, but nevertheless here for you.
Exiting Maharaji's world isn't easy. It's a psychological battle on many levels, in many dimensions of our consciousness. Some of these levels are deep, and irrational, but are none the less very serious, exact, and truly meaningful. As is obvious with your posting, it is a process requiring real courage, including the courage to post these struggles for others like myself to read, who are going through similar trials.
I'm working on a big Journal entry these days, full of dreams and offerings from the unknowable end zone of our own awareness, and so I really appreciate you putting one of your subconscious adventures up here. Thanks.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 23:29:26 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: readers
Subject: Jagdo rapes me in a dream;,I kill him-pt II
Message:
Out in the breezeway, the residents see me emerge in my disheveled state, stumbling, dazed,exhausted, and there definitely is a stir. The mothers quickly hustle their kids inside or turn them not to ook. Others stand agape, forgetting about thier kids completely. The kids who look up, exclaim things like 'ewwwwww!' or 'mommy, look at all the blood!' or 'who hurt you?'.
some cower behind their mother's bulk and hide.
I don't know what to say. I hold up my purse and gasp 'he took it'. They stare. I try again. 'He tried to rape me and I fought him off'. One or two seem to stir. Someone says 'you werent his girlfriend?'
I shake my head no and begin to cry, trembling. Another says 'He brought someone home every night, so we didnt know. we thought you was one of his dates'
A third comments 'it sure was noisy in there but we thought you two just liked it rough, so we didnt interfere'. They all stand there, suspended, staring at my appearance, waiting. I finally draw a long breath and drop my eyes and say in a low vouce, 'somebody call the police. they're gonna wanna be here for this'. One of the women looks at me and asks 'donchoo wanna clean yourself up?'
I shake my head no, and then raise my eyes to her and tell her I can't, not until they come and take the evidence with the rape kit. She says 'if he's dead, there aint gonna be no trial against him, honey'.
in my haze, it reaches me that what she just said is true...but I refrain from adding that, yes, but there still may well be a trial against me.
The police come eventually. the residents all come out to mill around and watch. no one seems to notice me, despite my bloody attire and state of shock. I ask who would be in charge of taking the victim's statement. I'm referrred to a young detective who's interviewing residents as witnesses. I try to get his attention. He waves me off, not really aware. I go back looking for the highest officer on the scene. I'm told he's in the apt. I approach the door and can't bring myself to look inside again. Just a flash of the hideous green wallpaper or the red carpet brings it all back in technicolor and surroundsound. And smellovision.
I want to retch. I feel some kind of sticky, thick, gluey mass, clinging like a stone in my throat. I'm afraid if i swallow or try to spit it out, either reflex will result in my vomiting, so i attenuate it there, and try to not move it.
I ask one of the detectives inside to get the boss. He disappers inside and doesnt come out after a reasonable interval. I motion to another one. Most of them are in the bedroom. None of them seem to understand that I'm the victim and need to be deposed and interviewed. This seems impossible, with all the blood on my clothes and my state of shock.
The second guy comes over to the door and asks what I want. I tell him hoarsely to get a rape kit for me. His attention is drawn away for a second, by a comment in the other room, and he doesnt hear me. Je turns back to me again and says 'what, now?'. I am failing , fast. I croak out 'get me a rape kit, please.' He asks 'what are you, a victim counselor something?' and I tiredly sink against the wall--the same spot where he had me pinned by the kitchenette, and close my eyes and whisper 'no. I'm the victim. I need the rape kit, to take the evidence samples, so I can clean up. Please.' He doesn't seem to register the importance of this, despite the fact tht I'm framed by the bloodsmeared handprints all behind me across the wall, matching the ones darkening on my blouse. He turns back to hear something from the bedroom while i roll my head back on the wall, my energy falling rapidly from all the shock and effort.
He turns back at last and tells me 'i don't think we're gonna need that, m'am. It appears that this is a simple homicide case. The guy's dead. Wait outside. If we need you, we'll call you. Did you know the deceased?'
I'm too exhausted to react. I wander out into the corridor, wan and dazed, lost at their preoccupation and failure to follow due procedure. The flashing police light bathe everything in surreal red and blue strobing. I want to leave the crowd and get away, alone, to comprehend what i did and what will happen to me next. I push my way slowly thru the milling neighbors and wander out to the side street. Seeing no bystanders, I wander away down the vacant street into the dark and find myself staring at the local hospital, which I could walk to from here. I weigh whether I should just go to the emergancy room on foot and explain my need and let the police take the rap for their failure to pay attention when I tried to talk to them and tell them my story.
I pose this to myself against leaving the scene of a crime, hover unable to decide, and then turn around and go back towards the complex, resigned to being sure everything is done by the book so I make sure they know i cooperated fully.
As I'm wandering back up the road, I become aware of a stickiness between my legs, like he came inside of me. I'm confused, now. I thought I evaded him penetrating me. I have to stop in the middle of the deserted road and try to recall the horrible events.Maybe I didn't escape his act after all. Could he have pnetrated me when he was passed out on top of me? before i slipped out from under him and went in the bedroom?
I have to endure the flashbacks of seeing those moments , relive them again, to figure out where this runoff is coming from. I piece it together, in dread.Maybe he got me, despite my best efforts. Mybe this lump in my throat isnt phlegm. maybe he shot me and i didnt know it. During the struggle, maybe when he had me down on the carpet.
Now i really want to retch, and I know i dont dae, not yet--not till the rape kit exam is done.
I start running in my stocking feet, back to the complex, back to the apt, and in, looking for the seargeant. I find him in the bedroom and insist he stop what he's doing and pay attention to me. He eyes me, registers the blood all over me, and steps with me over to the dining room glass doors, finally serious. I relate the entire struggle to him. I explain that i desperately want to go clean myself up but i can't until the rape kit samples are in evidence. He nods. He summons someone over and tells them to go get a female officer and a kit right now, to help me. the woman comes with the kit and takes my report, and finally takes all the requisite samples.
As she's getting finished, I feel the stuff in my throat start to come up, and i back away, holding hand to mouth. and what comes out is like a tapeworm, shooting forth out of my throat in a long white string, yards and yards of it, bundling in my hand. I'm incredulous and sickened. When it comes to an end, i hand the whole gloopy mass over to her and drop it in a speciment jar, glad to be rid of it after holding it hor over an hour.
When she has the vaginal specimen she needs, I realize I am swaying softly from side to side with relief, that things are finally going as theyre supposed to, and that i can relax.
and then it hits me:
oh god. wait a minute. if he got his semen inside of me, he could have gotten me pregnant.
shock again.
its not over yet.
we wont know for weeks.
-------------------------
and at this point i tore awake this morning, and sat up, and proceeded to cough up exactly the same glob of crap that was stuck in my throat in the dream.
And then I sat there staring down at it in the kleenex and relived the entire dream, awake.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 00:28:54 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Jagdo rapes me in a dream;,I kill him-pt II
Message:
You're in the clear, Janet. He didn't get in and he came on your thigh. You won't be having any baby Jagdeos.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 12:26:51 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Jagdo rapes me in a dream;,I kill him-pt II
Message:
First, pretty graphic stuff, hope you're feeling o.k. Dreams are weird things, usually symbolic but only you can say what it really means to you. Or perhaps you ate something which upset you and caused the dream...don't know. It could be a way of working out your anger/aggression in a harmless way - no-one actually got physically hurt. I think Jagdeo represents m's whole influence on your life, he said he'd take you somewhere nice and instead took you so he could abuse your trust and try and rob you of your autonomy. Just an idea.

Great writing, by the way. Perhaps you should write a novel? I got a real sense of the surroundings and the feeling of helplessness and despair. Alot of dreams seem to have that underlying helplessness/trapped thing, I have them from time to time. Perhaps it's a warning I'm doing something wrong, not following my own inner guidance, or allowing fear to stop me acting.
Interesting stuff, don't let your doubts/fears about something bad being left inside get a hold. Sounds like you faced your demons and won last night, on your own, which is how it is when we're deciding between love/hate, fear/courage and all the other challenges of being a human being!
The thing about 'the thinker thinks,(?) the prover proves' comes vaguely to mind. Thing is, your instincts were spot on, and you did find the strength to win. I think you're a very brave person - in my dream I would have borrowed some money off someone and left jagdeo to pick on some other poor woman!

All the best janet!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 00:09:58 (GMT)
From: banana bai
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: Jagdeo -- what is his current status???
Message:
He had very shifty eyes and I never trusted him. Do you remember his eyes? They were like dark, and bulged, and were shifty, all at the same time! I think he is the only 'mahatma' that really gave me the creeps. I avoided him and never went to listen to him, or left when he came around.

I would like to know where he is today and if he is still in any 'honored' capacity in any of the organizations that serve Maharaji's mission.

When he was a kid, probably being molested himself, I would have fought for him. But I would like to fight anyone who tried to protect him, because that allowed him to continue to victimize children, and that is soooooo sickening. What is Jagdeo's status now? Does anyone know? I am assuming that it is true that Maharaji didn't know what he did until a year or so ago -- and I would like to know if Jagdeo has been stripped of his title once Maharaji did learn about this.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:19:48 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: Sigh - STILL wanting to believe in guru!
Message:
I personally doubt if miragey didn't know about Jagdeo a long time ago - I mean, he was all-knowing until at least 1987...o.k so I may have got the exact date wrong, but that's cos he kept us all in the dark about alot of vital issues
Just suppose for a moment m knew about the rumours a long time ago, and didn't investigate or talk to Jagdeo, wouldn't that convince you he's all the nasty things people call him on this and other sites? I was convinced within two minutes of reading Anth's story here, (I knew Anth back in Unity School before Jagdeo attacked Abi) You have to do a bit of research but don't you owe it to yourself to find out the truth? Go on, be brave and look at the evidence...

Good luck!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 01:06:01 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: banana bai
Subject: Jagdeo -- traveling in Africa last month giving K
Message:
He is one of the old mahatmas like Charanand and Sampurand who put Pimple Rawat on the throne as Balyouguesswhat and is probably beyond Rawat's power.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 22:30:17 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Get yer divine umbrellas here on sale!
Message:
.

See Virtual Warehouse Sale!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 13:22:24 (GMT)
From: WMary
Email: None
To: all
Subject: GOING OUT OF BUSINESS SALE...??..(nt)
Message:
MAJOR WAREHOUS CLEARANCE
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 02:37:24 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: G
Subject: I threw my Drifting tape in a dumpster
Message:
it sucked. I think it was the last of my expenditures at the Holy Divine Sales rooms in LB. I should have saved it or passed it on but wasn't in the mood at the time.
At least I did not inherit it covered with lipstick. (old joke for those here who know my lipstick tapes story, hope it doesn't sound cultish)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:25:28 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I sold all mine on eBay!!
Message:
Plus the videos. Didn't get much for them though, not exactly chart material.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:46:59 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: am surprised anyone would buy them on ebay
Message:
That's funny Bazza.
I had a full large sized garbage bag ,( how perfect! ), of videos that a premie had given me. I ended up on bad terms , with this person at about the same time I gave the cult the flip-off. Not knowing what to do with these stupid videos which I had never watched, they sat in the bottom of my closet for months. For a couple reasons,
1. even while I was still unsure about my premiedumb I could NOT stand his video. I hated his voice.

2. The tapes she lent me, some of them mostly the audios she listened to in her car, were marked with lipstick kisses from her moments of adulation. I am not kidding.

I eventually sent them to Katie don't know where they ended up.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 01:27:21 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: G
Subject: just had to get me one. for the downpours of the
Message:
holy name, of course. don't feel like catching my death of pneumonia. why, breathing is so vital to my élan, doncha know. i think it's fitting.
i think he's soaked enough people, don't you?
the way i go thru umbrellas, this one might last me maybe thru two uses, before it breaks on me. its more useful than he is, at any rate. something tangible in exchange for my dollars.
and i can always put ropes thru it and turn it into a parachute, if i jump off the deep end in sheer frustration, huh? or turn it into a kite. or a lampshade.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 02:29:16 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: 'Maharaji, Guru Maharaj Ji' is on the g-list
Message:
'Maharaji, Guru Maharaj Ji' is on the g-list

So is 'Alfred E. Neuman, MAD', but he has a nicer smile and a more intelligent look.

g stands for 'gap-toothed'.

Oh, this gives me an idea, but it would be rather insulting to Alfred.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 00:43:59 (GMT)
From: Gordon Showcase
Email: premie@money.com
To: G
Subject: Get yer divine umbrellas here on sale!
Message:
You'd be amazed how much stuff falls off ships en route from the Far East.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 00:29:30 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Holly umbrellas batman!........nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 01:30:00 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: was it the penguin? or the joker who had one?
Message:
archenemy at any rate. good for poking fun at the hero.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 22:41:59 (GMT)
From: bob
Email: None
To: G
Subject: nothing.....
Message:
...celebrates life like life.

wow that is a powerful one!

I can do this too:

nothing means more than meaning

anything enlights more than 'knowledge'

the parasites inside rawats bowels have more morals than him

etc etc

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 02:28:13 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: bob
Subject: hahahahahaha
Message:
Hi Bob, funny post.

My 4 years-old niece has more common sense than Rawat.

Yes, parasites know what their job is, Lardy doesn't know his. One day he wakes up a real righteous GOD, another an intoxicated GOD, another he is just a pal, another HE is a devotee (hangs father's pictures around) another he think he is Tom Cruise and go for the blondes, another he 'acts' like a real parent (buys Daya a Mercedes), another he is a bussiness man, another he is a pilot, a painter, a musician, an orchestra man, a captain, pretending... I bet he is good for little. Somebody said somewhere that he doesn't even pilots the plane, the 'co-pilot does it for him.

Remember when he mentioned in a video that he was taking some class and one of his fellow students asked him why he went to school wearing such an expensive suit and according to him his response was: 'Because I can afford them.' That is what a call a man of GOD, a loving person, a high being.NOT!

What a bozo he is, really.

luv, :)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 00:52:53 (GMT)
From: Simon Satsang
Email: satsang@satsangroom.con
To: bob
Subject: something....
Message:
Nothing has more gratitude than gratitude itself. Nothing speaks from the heart like the heart. Without life, there is death. Those who are not living are dead. Only the living know life.

If you are not awake, you are asleep. Life is alive while death is dead. I have so much appreciation of my appreciation that I can only appreciate it. I am overcome with clarity and gratitude...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 17:43:22 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Love means being able to say you're sorry
Message:
That old movie 'Love Story' with Barbra Streisand and Ryan O'Neal (which really sucked from what I have heard) has this theme about love means never having to say you are sorry. That tagline was in all the ads.

That does not sound like a good foundation for a love story to me. That sounds like the makings of a healthy-as-a-horse sado-masochistic relationship.

It seems that the powers that be from and around Maharaji are projecting that out into their sub-culture. If you fuck up, it's cool, you don't have to admit it or make any personal amends for it. Just let time pass and then learn to say, with feeling,

'It's in the past and the past is dead. You don't want to live in the past, do you? Heaven is now.'

Yeah, kick 'em in the balls and tell 'em to meditate if they feel anything strange. I get that alot locally so I recognize it pretty fast when it pops up on this site.

Not my idea of Heaven-on-earthingly,

Sandy

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 01:28:45 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: not streisand. ali macgraw. wrong movie sandy
Message:
sorry.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 02:08:16 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: not streisand. ali macgraw. wrong movie sandy
Message:
Not wrong movie, just wrong actress.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 11:10:26 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: not the letter of the cast list, but the spirit nt
Message:
zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 12:22:55 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: not the letter of the cast list, but the spirit nt
Message:
Let's hear it for the Christ-ians!

Well said, Brother Mickey.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 20:22:33 (GMT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: I do not understand this response.
Message:
What the heck does that mean, 'Let's hear it for the Christ-ians?'

I've noticed when ever you get a Bible story wrong and I correct you your response is 'Not the letter but the spirit; the letter killeth but the spirit giveth life.' I've always believed that such a response was a cop out, but, to save you the trouble, I gave the response to your incorrect casting.

If you actually are trying to clear yourself of your cult mindset, you may try to rid yourself of the thinking that the Hebrew and Christian scriptures have any relevance at all to M and his baloney.

I really do hope that you are finally breaking free.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 22:17:07 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: I never did quite get that
Message:
I think it was on her death bed that the character played by Ali McGraw made that remark. Ryan O'Neal was all weepy and sorry for not having been a better man and Ali comes to his rescue with 'love means never having to say you're sorry'. I think I remember that right. I never did figure out what she meant by that, but Ryan seemed to feel better for it. If you ask me, if you've done something wrong, and you and the other party know it, and you really feel sorry for it, saying 'sorry' is just the right medicine. maybe Ali should have just said 'it's alright' or something normal like that. But, that's Hollywood, I guess.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 22:40:11 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Yeah, me neither
Message:
and I've actually had people quote that line 'love means never...' as though it were some kind of spiritual truth. Particularly one member of a couple I've been counselling who had hurt the other, for example.

I agree, Sandy and Jerry, that love means exactly BEING ABLE to say you're sorry. That way you are taking responsibility for your effect on the other person, which is a good definition of love.

Apologies really mean a lot. Even when the other party has struggled and fought their way through to some kind of forgiveness or equanimity, there is a powerful effect of hearing 'sorry' that you can palpably feel in your body.

I cannot imagine how much good and healing an apology from MJ would do, even to people who have moved on and aren't even thinking about him or their time in cultsville.

OH - amazing, I just realized that I got an email this morning from a friend saying that she had just gotten a call from her ex-husband of 8 years ago. She is happily remarried, but he hurt her physically. She has tried to let go - done a million spiritual and psychological processes to release him. And to a great extent she has, but his call has put her into bliss, because in some way he was holding a piece that she couldn't quite do for herself.

You could do it for many people, Maharaji.

love Disculta

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 18:53:49 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Didn't want to start a whole new thread...
Message:
Thought this thread approprate..

Not that anyone cares...

But, those that know me alittle I just thought I would say...

I can't in good faith call myself a premie.
I don't call myself a Maharaji hater or a premie-hater either.

I don't know who Maharaji is or his role on the planet.
He did reveal techniques to me that indeed lead me within and into my heart. I thank him for that.
Beyond that ... well, he is not on any pedestal. (As he once was.)

Of course, I am disappointed in many of the things that have been revealed here.
It is because of this site that I do not call myself a premie.

As some of you remember, I called myself a crappy premie anyway.

I am truly sad that so many are so angry here - but, each has his own journey.

I love the information and gossip I find here and will continue to occassionally stop in.

Thank you,
Elaine

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:14:13 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Didn't want to start a whole new thread...
Message:
If you weren't a true 'devotee' who gave up your career, family, possessions and friends on m's orders believing he would take care of you, if you spent years not drinking and having relationships on his orders, only to find he'd been having affairs, getting drunk and smoking dope that whole time; and if you associated him with all good things in your life and then found he's a cruel, selfish and thouroughly nasty person; you might feel a bit more anger! It's according to how much you feel betrayed. He shows techniques that many others show for going inside, but no-one else demands your life in exchange.

The people here who are angry are going through the equivalent of a divorce, only worse. Anger can be a positive step towards breaking free from old patterns, it's a natural part of the recovery process.

Count yourself lucky that you were a 'crappy' premie, and didn't have your whole life and self invested in m's bogus mission to save the planet and spread peace. I didn't either, and I'm just beginning to see how very fortunate I am to be unable to earn alot of money and get up early in the mornings...Anyone outside the ashrams has got off pretty lightly, I reckon!

Take it easy.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 00:56:30 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: Didn't want to start a whole new thread...
Message:
C,
Yes, of course, anger is a positive part of the process. It's just that my therapist will 'make' me face my anger and then understand it and find out what it's really about and I resolve it and move on. It seems as if it goes on and on here, is all.
So it is just sad to see anyone linger for a long time in pain or anger or whatever. It's nice to be depressed,angry,worried,in fear,etc. for a short time deal with it,learn and move on with ones life. (For anyone, in any situation.)

I was in an ashram for 4-5 years - but, didn't buy into alot of bullshit and had a great time...you are right I didn't feel as betrayed as others. But, I have anger for alot of other things and I move on after awhile - after plenty of ranting and ravings of course.

And I agree - the betrayal some feel about Maharaji can be worse than the betrayal and loss love in a divorce.

It's hard for me to buy into that M demanded my life in exchange ---bec I didn't give it to him. He may have suggested it -- but, I sure didn't give it 100%.

Gotta run,thanks,
Elaine

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 16:37:43 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: you have no credibility, cult apologist elaine.
Message:
Yes, of course, anger is a positive part of the process. It's just that my therapist will 'make' me face my anger and then understand it and find out what it's really about and I resolve it and move on. It seems as if it goes on and on here, is all.

So, did you tell your the-rapist you are in a cult yet?

So it is just sad to see anyone linger for a long time in pain or anger or whatever. It's nice to be depressed,angry,worried,in fear,etc. for a short time deal with it,learn and move on with ones life. (For anyone, in any situation.)

Oh so sad. I'll bet you really feel their pain. Can you play saxophone too?

And yes, it's so nice to suffer the mental anguish caused by this cult. So very nice indeed.

I was in an ashram for 4-5 years - but, didn't buy into alot of bullshit and had a great time...

Do you really expect anyone here to believe this? Do you really believe it yourself? Are you that out of touch with your own feelings?

are right I didn't feel as betrayed as others. But, I have anger for alot of other things and I move on after awhile - after plenty of ranting and ravings of course.

OK, I get. You've 'moved on' 'gotten a life' etc and are now a shiny example for all of us, right? We should all just move on and forget about this and stop posting, right?

I agree - the betrayal some feel about Maharaji can be worse than the betrayal and loss love in a divorce.

Actually Elaine, I believe the comment was that it was similiar to the pain of divorce. Let's be accurate, please.

It's hard for me to buy into that M demanded my life in exchange ---bec I didn't give it to him. He may have suggested it -- but, I sure didn't give it 100%.

Four or Five years in the ashcan but you held back??? BULLSHIT, ELAINE !!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 20:39:29 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: thanks for stopping by...
Message:
I am truly sad that so many are so angry here - but, each has his own journey.

Oh bullshit, Elaine. You love conflict and fighting. And you love characterizing the posters here as 'angry.' As if it were some sort of disease.

I don't know who Maharaji is or his role on the planet.

woo woo !!! could he be...the perfect master??? Look, he's just another human among 6 billion others. Of course I will grant you that he falls in a special category, exclusive to a small percentage of the human race--sociopath.

He did reveal techniques to me that indeed lead me within and into my heart. I thank him for that.

Thank him for what? Some old warmed over yogic tricks? And you are no more 'into your heart' than anyone else. Christ, you can't even get along with your next door neighbor. A lot of goddam good the sacred nollige is...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 17:56:10 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Ali Mc something
Message:
Not Streissand. That is it, how he does it. He is a very disturbed person and the ones around him too. They are co-dependant of each other's misery to exist, to survive in the ensalada all of 'them' have created.

have fun! LOVE.

sb

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 19:28:51 (GMT)
From: Ebola Ji
Email: None
To: sb
Subject: Ali McGraw...........nt
Message:
the movie sucked the big one
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 17:12:05 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Coming to England. Any Latvians?
Message:
I'm coming to visit my parents in England. Anyone want to have a mini-Latvian or whatever-it's-called? Say, The Freemason Arms on Downshire Hill in Hampstead on June 17 at 7 pm for example (round the corner from my mom)? It has an outdoor garden. BTW, I don't drink - can I still be an ex-premie?

I'd love to get together with some exes while I'm there. I used to be part of the London premie community once upon a time, but lost all my contacts when I exited. Did you know me (katie Jones or, later Katie Baier)? Even if you didn't, it would be fun to meet. I'll be fresh off the San Francisco thing.

My mom thinks it's hysterical that we now have EX-premie get-togethers.

Hoping to hear from someone...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:35:13 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Coming to England Hi!
Message:
I'm in, I don't drink either, so I don't know if we could classify ourselves as true Latvians. That little scene depends quite heavily on beer for its particular ambience, from what I can gather. Never mind! I don't think I know you, I was on the outskirts of the London scene, my big time of devotion was really when I was in Leeds doing my degree.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 04:46:44 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: Coming to England Hi!
Message:
Great. I love your posts.

Looking forward to seeing you. I don't know your e-mail so e-mail me at some point darlingwave@aol.com. I'm flexible about time and place and am meeting various other individuals at different times.

love Katie Darling

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 05:09:13 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Thanks for emails...
Message:
Anyone interested in meeting can email me at darlingwave@aol.com
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 22:46:46 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Disculta
Subject: Are you heading up North?
Message:
Unfortunately there's a whole gang of us here in these remoter northern parts of the UK, where real people live who don't shave their armpits, who don't get to visit the Big Black Smoke too often.

But by far most UK forum exes live in the near vicinity of London, and having met a few and drunk a few too many with said few, can only assure you they can and probably will show you a good time (with or without the fruits of the grape and grain).
I could email a few southern forum exes for you in case they don't see this post...

Anyway, Disculta, I am sure you will be made most welcome on these benighted shores - and if either Moldy or I happen to be down that way in June will make contact before then.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:26:15 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Nige did you get my email??? OT/NT
Message:
nbvlkjwafu
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 09:12:42 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Yes, thanks, Bazza am replying..(ot)..and..
Message:
..also to a few others I owe emails too.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 23:42:51 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Are you heading up North?
Message:
No, heading west not north.

I don't shave my armpits too often either even though I'm a Londoner.

Yeah, e-mail anyone you think would give me a good time!

love Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 17:19:21 (GMT)
From: clh
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Coming to England. Any Latvians?
Message:
Agood friend of mine is Jason Black, 1 of the 1st of the premies in England, took k before m came over. He lives in LA, Ca, now, tho, and is not an ex. if that doesn't matter to you, let me know, and if you' ever out this way maybe you guys can be hooked up.re
Return to Index -:- Top of Index