Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 22:50:44 (GMT)
From: May 30, 2001 To: Jun 04, 2001 Page: 2 Of: 5


Michele Deradune -:- All you exes will like this one (I promise!) -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:15:48 (GMT)
__ JohnT -:- See You -- NT -- -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:47:03 (GMT)
__ Mi next, mi, poor mi -:- FEET, YUMMIE.... yuck nt -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:56:57 (GMT)
__ salam -:- All you exes will like this one (I promise!) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:37:41 (GMT)
__ __ silvia -:- Good one Salam! lol nt -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:57:54 (GMT)
__ sucha BANANA!!!!!!!!!!! -:- If you see Kay... (nt -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 01:22:01 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Michele, I meant have a laugh like this -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:48:53 (GMT)
__ __ Michele Deradune -:- Thanks, PatC, that is really helpful! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:42:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- I thought you were going away!!!!! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:31:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Michele, what about FREEDOM OF SPEECH? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 14:42:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ ~silvia~ the forum angel -:- Do you love us or ONLY HIM? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:59:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Pat C, you owe Michele an explanation /nt -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:15:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ CD -:- really helpful! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:44:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Thanks, Chris. I did insult Michele and apologise -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:55:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Very funny, Chris -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:20:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ clh -:- Glad you're sticking around. NT -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:10:34 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- A bit heavy, yar? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:35:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Salam, please read post below to clh (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:37:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- I thought you're in bed -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:45:13 (GMT)
__ __ clh -:- Michele, I meant have a laugh like this -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:22:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Uh oh .... clh? It's not Pat, it's the software -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:36:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ clh -:- Uh oh .... clh? It's not Pat, it's the software -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:12:14 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Quite simply this -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:59:53 (GMT)
__ __ Michele Deradune -:- Thank you Sir (NT) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:52:18 (GMT)
__ Scot Jamieson -:- My prediction for Michele -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:54:08 (GMT)
__ __ Forum Admin -:- Re your Journey -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:12:32 (GMT)
__ __ Michele Deradune -:- I do not have any reason to trust Dettmers -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:08:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ Rumi -:- Kill and run=totally immoral. -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:57:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie H -:- To Michele - Trusting Dettmers (and some etc.) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:00:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scot Jamieson -:- I do not have any reason to trust Dettmers -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:39:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Michelle - read Scot's post and think a bit. (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:46:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- yeah and u know rawat personally, right? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:31:05 (GMT)
__ __ Katie H -:- Hey Scot -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:06:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scot J -:- Hey Scot -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:13:11 (GMT)
__ DISRUPTOR -:- YOU ARE What are you getting? FEET?? NT -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:51:14 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- before you go could you send me a picture? -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:39:55 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Roger, how could you? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:29:21 (GMT)
__ __ Michele Deradune -:- Before I send it -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:01:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ ~silvia~ the forum angel -:- You are an ex, you just don't know it yet -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:10:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- people that HATE u? GROW UP !!!!! (NT) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:33:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ salam -:- Man you blow it -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:18:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- I will not desecrate your image!!! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:08:38 (GMT)
__ __ Michele Deradune -:- Yes, I've got just the one for you -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:42:05 (GMT)
__ Deborah -:- You broke your promise! -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:25:39 (GMT)
__ __ Michele Deradune -:- Thank you, Deborah -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:57:20 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- While you're here, Michele -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:23:19 (GMT)
__ __ Michele Deradune -:- My answer -- and a question for you or J-M too! -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:40:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Can we continue a bit? -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:48:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Michele Deradune -:- Can we continue a bit? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:13:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ ~silvia~ the forum 'angel -:- You don't answer questions simply because -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:34:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Can we continue a bit? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 08:47:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Excellent post, Jerry! Well put. (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:43:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Link to EPO SEARCH ENGINE for you -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:12:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Michele Deradune -:- Can we continue a bit? OOPS, correction! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:19:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ~silvia~ the forum angel -:- Right on Michelle, now you're talking. -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:20:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Can we continue a bit? OOPS, correction! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:30:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Michele Deradune -:- It's not like I know all the answers, Jim!!!!! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:21:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ~silvia~ the forum angel -:- Why is this Michelle. Read please -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:50:06 (GMT)
__ __ Silvia -:- PLANT ALL OVER GUYS, ....NT -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:27:28 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- Imagine this -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:22:51 (GMT)
__ __ creativejani -:- Imagine... he keeps firing the ones that do -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:33:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Michele Deradune -:- there must be a reason for this -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 07:47:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Not like that, like this -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 10:44:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- :)) yup Cjani...and hes been unlucky for 30yrs (nt -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:21:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- I like it with Brandy (ot) -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:39:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ creativejani -:- I like it! You obviously know a lot...ot -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:50:17 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Hey, Michele, have a laugh with us below NT -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:21:01 (GMT)
__ __ Michele Deradune -:- Hey, Michele, have a laugh with us below NT -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:46:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ creativejani -:- since when did this become the source of -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:03:37 (GMT)

Dermot -:- In one way we are at a disadvantage in any -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:17:59 (GMT)
__ Bin Liner -:- Not so : faced with the truth propaganda .... -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:24:13 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- No, Bin, I don't think so -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:42:41 (GMT)
__ __ mr.bojangles -:- Not so : faced with the truth propaganda .... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:14:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Don't know ....out maybe ? (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:21:16 (GMT)

Richard -:- Premies now allowed to 'interact and express'! -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:54:24 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- david,stop screaming at yer girlfriend lngdistance -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:35:44 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- I'm there! -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:47:19 (GMT)
__ __ Richard -:- I'm there! -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:11:29 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Are you serious? -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:59:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Hm.... -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 20:02:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- OH Jim, Will you bring me back a souvenir? (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:19:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- What kind? (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:03:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- just don't bring any *souvenirs* home t Laurie nt -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:07:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- don't tempt me... -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 20:15:33 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- A little help for all our premie pals! -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:13:46 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Sounds like fundraising to me (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:13:02 (GMT)

gErRy -:- Goober dun a good deed., makes *A* list -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:52:06 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Give him back his nickel and send him to hell (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:50:34 (GMT)
__ S -:- It's easy to be generous with money that -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:08:19 (GMT)
__ gErRy -:- Bad Goober dun a bad deed, sues his mommy -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:58:13 (GMT)

Dermot -:- Any techies? ..Pia's site and the pop ups ... -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:09:49 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- Pia's 'Independent' site and 'staff'? -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:32:17 (GMT)
__ __ Dermot -:- as f SAYS ....VOMITORIUM :)) (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:38:40 (GMT)
__ Katie H -:- Pop-ups -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:33:01 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Any techies? ..Pia's site and the pop ups ... -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:21:13 (GMT)
__ __ Richard -:- Pia's site hosting info -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:34:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Who is -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:28:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- www.ellwoodassoc.com -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:42:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Salam -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:05:19 (GMT)
__ __ Disculta -:- Intrigue, espionage and the cult... and 3 brains.. -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:15:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Intrigue, espionage and the cult... and 3 brains.. -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 20:32:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Rev Rawat as Lord of the Flies -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:42:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- How about a soap, THE CULT DAYS OF OUR LIFE -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:21:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- FV is a soap, THE CULT DAYS OF OUR LIFE -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:48:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Warning!!! -:- The Cult-O-Meter will suck you out of tail-spin! -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:07:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- The Cult-O-Meter is brilliant! NT -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:38:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hey, check this out! -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:18:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- Delightful Disculta :)) (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:24:50 (GMT)

salam -:- guru's picture disappeared of Pia's site -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:06:05 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- The pic's back up (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:03:59 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Did you notice the difference? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:04:03 (GMT)
__ __ Dermot -:- Only the semi-flatterring one Jim -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:27:22 (GMT)
__ bazza -:- you're right sal -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:20:02 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Don't know why -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 20:14:56 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- sent this to Pia -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:27:22 (GMT)
__ __ JohnT -:- Hope it's OK -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 15:12:38 (GMT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Say It Ain't So! -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:11:13 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- What ain't so? -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:03:54 (GMT)
__ __ Dermot -:- Awesome Susan.... -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:41:19 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- Rather unflattery pic -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:18:57 (GMT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Haven't seen mugshot in years--Looking BAD ;o| -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:56:17 (GMT)
__ __ silvia -:- he is dark, really, no real 'light' there -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:23:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- This is a better picture -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:51:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- This is a better picture. Try Again -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 01:19:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- your pics never available to view Salam (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:02:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Cute pic, Salam, but if you post a link to -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:47:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ let's all write Pia! -:- Who ever can do the best premie imitation will get -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:12:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ silvia -:- YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS lets do it.. nt -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 01:05:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Okay, here's my entry. -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:44:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- Okay, here's mine -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:25:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Good one Cjani :) (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 01:13:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- And mine -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:49:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Isn't this what you REALLY mean, Jane? -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:41:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Thanks Jim the pornolizer's better than wanking -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:46:31 (GMT)

Cynthia -:- BACKLASH! -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:18:02 (GMT)
__ Mr. Mind -:- BACKLASH!/ Agree -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:21:58 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- BACKLASH!=i missed it.suggestion: whenever -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:22:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Forum Admin -:- Sorry, Janet -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:03:15 (GMT)

Ricardo M. -:- [post edited by FA] -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 15:20:32 (GMT)
__ creativejani -:- you know, this sounds like EV France speaking...nt -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 15:31:12 (GMT)
__ __ Katie H -:- Actually it sounds like Bjorn -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:21:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ Forum Admin -:- We have no evidence it is Bjorn -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:27:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- SHP lives in new jersey...nt -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:29:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- ...and janet lives 20 miles south of the Urug -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:46:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Shouldn't that be 'Rugu'? (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:55:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Ragu, Thick n Chunky. But you don't like puns NT -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:19:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Forum Admin -:- Please, no more speculation -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:45:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Sandy would never do that... -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:42:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mr. Mind -:- No Janet, My ol' buddy wouldn't do that -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:19:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mili -:- Isn't it ironic? -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:03:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Your post is itself libellous, Mili -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 09:28:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Isn't it ironic you are here to read this? MILLY -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:10:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- 'tain't libel if its all true............nt -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:31:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- You are a sick, sick person Mili -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:39:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ silvia -:- who changed my post?? FA? -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:42:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Forum Admin -:- Not edited by FA nt -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:11:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- Strange things are happening in my PC -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 14:11:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Aren't you moronic? -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:16:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mili -:- Aren't you moronic? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 08:03:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ~silvia~ the forum angel -:- Speaking about YOURSELF again Mili? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:37:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ silvia -:- Good luck, so far it seems nobody is there -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:45:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Read the site, Mili -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:16:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Mili, truth is a defence against libel nt -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:16:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie H -:- Thanks, FA -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:29:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- You could be right, Katie -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:35:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- You could be right, Katie -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:43:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Katie I didn't hear this -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:52:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Thanks, Gerry (ot) -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:57:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- My best to Brian, That sounds painful! n/t -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:08:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Thanks, Cynthia - and if everyone could... -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:18:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Katie H -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:43:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- Hey Dermot -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:04:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Katie, the complaints actually irritate me:)) n/t -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:25:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Forum Admin -:- Please check your email nt -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:34:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Please check yours! nt -:- Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:39:31 (GMT)


Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:15:48 (GMT)
From: Michele Deradune
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: All you exes will like this one (I promise!)
Message:
Well, as much as I *can* promise...LOL.

I just want to say that though I am no longer posting here (except, er, well...like now), that I am still reading the website posts and I just want to congratulate you for putting a lot of news on the website. Although, as many of you know, I disagree with many if not most of the editorializing here that blames Maharaji (since I personally and sincerely see Elan Vital as the culprit -- Elan Vital meaning the system/structure and process that has been in effect for quite some time now to help propagation -- and which, in the U.S. has all but stopped propagation). I won't go into more of that here. You can read more of my criticisms of Elan Vital on my website soon!!

But the reason I just had to post right now is because I want to thank you for getting news out to the premies (at least those who are not afraid to read the posts here) about so much that is going on -- which Elan Vital would never in a million years tell anyone but their 'top dogs.'

For that, Bravo.

(My apologies to those so much looking forward to never seeing me post here again. I'm staying away from posting for the most part -- at least here -- from now on!!)

Michele (Mitchell Michael Reel) Deradune (not an ex)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:47:03 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: See You -- NT --
Message:
(think about it)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:56:57 (GMT)
From: Mi next, mi, poor mi
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: FEET, YUMMIE.... yuck nt
Message:
aughhhhhhhh
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:37:41 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: All you exes will like this one (I promise!)
Message:
I think this chick has some humor.

The only news for premies here are bad news.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:57:54 (GMT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Good one Salam! lol nt
Message:
LOl
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 01:22:01 (GMT)
From: sucha BANANA!!!!!!!!!!!
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: If you see Kay... (nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:48:53 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Michele, I meant have a laugh like this
Message:
This is your post after it's been pornolized.

From: Michele 'Ass-stitcher' Deradune
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: All you fingers will like titty fucks one (I promise!)
Message:
Well, as much as I *can* promise...LOL.
I just want to say that though I am no longer fucking here (except, er, well...like now), that I am still licking the pecking website fucks and I just want to congratulate you for sex fighting a assfucking lot of cuntlicks on the fucking website. Although, as many of you know, I disagree with many if not most of the gangbanging editorializing here that squirts Maharaji (since I personally and sincerely see Elan 'Sniff-my-Ass' Vital as the smooching culprit -- Elan 'Long Finger' Vital squirting the smooching system/structure and asslicks that has been in effect for quite some time now to help propagation -- and which, in the ballbusting U.S. has all but sucked propagation). I won't go into more of that here. You can read more of my titty fucks of Elan 'Mistress Anal' Vital on my website soon!!

But the fingering reason I just had to post right now is because I want to thank you for licking fucks out to the fingerfucking wad pulls (at least those who are not afraid to read the screwing fucks here) about so much that is going on -- which Elan 'Fat Ass' Vital would never in a sucking million assfucks tell anyone but their 'top wad pulls.'

For that, Bravo.

(My asslicks to those so much screwing forward to never fingering me post here again. I'm screwing away from banging for the spanking most part -- at least here -- from now on!!)

Michele (Mitchell 'Omar Pussy' Michael Reel) Deradune (not an ex)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:42:45 (GMT)
From: Michele Deradune
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Thanks, PatC, that is really helpful!
Message:
I'm going to find ways to make it through this forum better, and I am also going to find a way to speak my mind here without getting kicked off for the sin of loving Maharaji:

I'm making a list of names whose posts I will never read again. You have the honor to be the first on the list, even though I already knew I was putting Silvia on it too.

And if there are perverts here that that is the only way they can get their rocks off is to read such filthy porn, be my guest.

banana bye to PatC

P.S. Also take another bow. You have convinced me once and for all to stay here as long as the Forum Administrator finds me tolerable.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:31:22 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: I thought you were going away!!!!!
Message:
Dang! I guess I'll have to stop reading your posts.

;-)

f

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 14:42:30 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Michele, what about FREEDOM OF SPEECH?
Message:
It was a joke silly...put me on your list if you want, you're in a cult and don't know it!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:59:31 (GMT)
From: ~silvia~ the forum angel
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Do you love us or ONLY HIM?
Message:
I'm going to find ways to make it through this forum better, and I am also going to find a way to speak my mind here without getting kicked off for the sin of loving Maharaji:

I love you Michelle.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:15:45 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Pat C, you owe Michele an explanation /nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:44:30 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: really helpful!
Message:
>I'm making a list of names whose posts I will never read again. You have the honor to be the first on the list

Don't jump to conclusions too quickly when reading stuff on this site.
PatC seems to be a decent person.

I wouldn't get offended by some computer generated porn language. Actually a good indicator of how pliable and also meaningless words can become.

CD

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:55:45 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Thanks, Chris. I did insult Michele and apologise
Message:
Thank you, Chris, for seeing that I was not being malicious. I posted an apology to her in a separate thread.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:20:04 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Very funny, Chris
Message:
I wouldn't get offended by some computer generated porn language. Actually a good indicator of how pliable and also meaningless words can become.

Yeah, I guess you need a real live operating mind before words are going to mean anything.

Good one, Chris. A little self-deprecating but hey, I like to make fun of myself too.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:10:34 (GMT)
From: clh
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Glad you're sticking around. NT
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:35:04 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: A bit heavy, yar?
Message:
It's ok to bish bash premies around, but I thhink this is a bit too much.

Never mind. We all do booboos.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:37:43 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Salam, please read post below to clh (nt)
Message:
fffff
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:45:13 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I thought you're in bed
Message:
you really should get help for your addiction :)

I know that's a stupid generator, but but but, BUTT.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:22:52 (GMT)
From: clh
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Michele, I meant have a laugh like this
Message:
I sort of agree with slamming Michelle. But, IMO, this post of yours is abusive, dehumanizes women, rude, and lacks even the excuse of inteligent parody or farce.

Most of the toilet humer I was exposed to in prison, when I was there for dealing (a state pen) and the time I was there for being a patsy in a bank fraud (a federal pen) showed more class.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:36:07 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: clh
Subject: Uh oh .... clh? It's not Pat, it's the software
Message:
Hows'that for a modern excuse? 'Sorry, it wasn't me, it was my software speaking'

In this case, that's the story.

Check out:

www.pornolize.com

Dumb? Yeah. Does it get old after a few websites? Yeah. But is it funny at first? Take a look.

Go to the site then paste in ex.premie.org

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:12:14 (GMT)
From: clh
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Uh oh .... clh? It's not Pat, it's the software
Message:
I thought you were going to defend being abusive, in posts, anyway. I got here and it isn't that. Apologies for my defense reaction judgement of you.

Went to the site, but all I get is 'proxy can not display page'.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:59:53 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Quite simply this
Message:
You're welcome to post on my forum which is The ANYTHING GOES Forum although Maharaji isn't at the top of the agenda there, as you'll see if you ever visit.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:52:18 (GMT)
From: Michele Deradune
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Thank you Sir (NT)
Message:
no text
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:54:08 (GMT)
From: Scot Jamieson
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: My prediction for Michele
Message:
EV is the culprit? Was it EV who had sex with all the cute blond devotees and dumped them? Was it EV who disappeared all that cognac? Etc. You know what I predict ? Keep saying what you want, and keep thinking for yourself - you are on the exit road NOW. Say what you, as an individual, think and feel and we'll see ya in a few months . . . here, as an Ex.
Yes, prediction could be off wall. I wish you truth and beauty, though, and I mean it. The answers are deep within you, and they're not simple. But stay with honesty, courage, caring and sharing - and good luck, whatever site you're on.
Completely OT, I posted my Journey to 'Journeys' last Wed. and I have to ask, being human, how long does it take to get them processed? Is it a big wait? My 'Journey' is maybe giving the editors a hard time. It's the experiences I wrote down in my personal journal, starting from the first night I logged on this site, to about a month later. But it should be an interesting case study of a 'good smartcard carrier's mind hitting the fan of Maharaji Ex facts. Have you READ Dettmers' stuff, Michele? This was like a bomb going off on a 27 year long voyage, for me. My life was the ocean going vessel (Got K in '74.) Are you impervious to what he says about Maharaji's personal life, the close up details? I NEVER heard this stuff. To me, it is very serious - very. What DO you think of it. I'm pretty recent, as an Ex - It took maybe weeks before I could even imagine that I could get some perspective on it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:12:32 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Scot Jamieson
Subject: Re your Journey
Message:
Scot

Journey entries are dealt with by Brian as webmaster of EPO site. Unfortunately Brian is right now recovering from eye surgery, so it may be a while before your entry makes it online.

In the meantime you are welcome to post extracts here on the forum, I'm sure we would all be interested in reading them.

FA

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:08:38 (GMT)
From: Michele Deradune
Email: None
To: Scot Jamieson
Subject: I do not have any reason to trust Dettmers
Message:
Yes, Scott, in answer to your first question, I did read all the Dettmers posts.

Number one: Maharaji isn't here to judge my personal life, and I'm not here to judge his personal life -- as long as he is not doing something I personally consider totally immoral. Hang with me here for a minute. First, I don't know Dettmers personally. If I knew him personally, or even if a very good friend of mine knew him personally and could vouch to me that he is a truly honest person, then and only then would I be fairly certain he was telling me the truth. I did see him in the old days, but only when he was talking to us rank and file prems in 411. He came off as executive-like and that's about it. However, I am willing to give him benefit of the doubt that *maybe* what he is saying is true, and not one iota of plausibility more than that.

Number two: I do however know people who have traveled with Maharaji and lived with Maharaji and I have heard some very positive things that I never see here except when I post them, for the most part. (Don't worry, I won't bother you with one of those right now.)

Number three: If I ever know, for a fact, that Maharaji has done something which I find unforgiveable (and believe me, there are things I find unforgiveable, such as child molestation) -- I will leave him in nothing flat. But he is the best thing that ever happened to me and I'll be darned if I'm going to leave him over hearsay.

Number four: If Maharaji (I say if, I have zero first hand knowledge) boozes, sexes, drugs, dances on tables, all that kind of stuff, I'm just not going to worry about it *unless* the next time I hear him speak it is apparent to me that he is no longer giving the same high quality satsang (talks about truth) that he has always given. Now THAT would be a sure sign to me that something is wrong -- and if that ever happens, I will be very interested in the possibility of becoming an ex myself.

Number five: I believe that letter Dettmers alleges he received from pro-Maharaji thugs is a hoax. I believe he is too smart to believe such an unconvincing threat e-mail -- unless, of course, he planted it himself so that he could grandstand and showcase a big split with Maharaji. Am I wrong? Maybe. If I am wrong, and ever find out for sure I was wrong to even suggest this, I will be very apologetic indeed.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:57:57 (GMT)
From: Rumi
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Kill and run=totally immoral.
Message:
r
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:00:41 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: mishkat@gateway.net
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: To Michele - Trusting Dettmers (and some etc.)
Message:
Hi Michele -
I hope you will have time to answer this post - or at least acknowledge it. You can e-mail me if you want. I know the forum is kind of a mess right now - I've been trying to find and read your posts and the serious answers and it hasn't been easy.

Last things first -
First, I don't know if Michael 'believed' the threatening e-mail he got or not (I am sure that he didn't 'plant' it - we get stuff like that all the time.) But it IS scary to get threatening e-mails like that - as many people here can testify. Imagine how you would feel if you got one. It helps to post things like that on the forum, believe me.

Re trusting Michael - I have found him to be an uncompromisingly truthful person, even when it is NOT to his benefit. He has taken a lot of flak here for not talking about things that he has promised to keep confidential (for example, his recent lunch with Raja Ji.) He has probably gotten way more abuse from ex-premies than from premies - I think it's a mark of his personal integrity that he has kept posting here even though it all. Now this is just my opinion, and you can take it or leave it.

Also, if you read the archives carefully, you will find that Michael's 'split' from Maharaji resulted from a number of factors, and did not have much, if anything, to do with the before-mentioned e-mail. I believe the primary one was the non-response of both M and EV to the letter from Susan to Maharaji that Michael hand-delivered. (BTW, even if you say M never 'saw' the letter, Susan printed it on the forum after getting the non-response, so he DID have access to it.)

I've been reading all your posts and I am getting an idea about how you feel about Maharaji. I don't really know what to say to you about it. I have a friend who felt the same way, but after reading the forum, she had to realize that the Maharaji that she loved so much, and who loved her in the same way, was not the human being Maharaji Prem Pal Rawat. This was devastating to her, and she's still picking up the pieces.

Although I believe that your feelings about Maharaji are based on a fantasy, I don't doubt that the feelings themselves are very real. My hope for you is that you can find someone who is WORTHY of the love you have to give - sounds like you have a lot of it. Real-world relationships are never going to be as perfect as what you feel for Maharaji - but at least they are real.

Take care, Michele - and as Richard said, hang in there. I think you are brave to post on this forum under your own name - especially with all the repercussions you are going to face in the premie world.

Sincerely,
Katie H.

P.S. Hope you give PatC another chance - he was just fooling around with some 'porn' software. (I didn't think it was funny either, but Pat is a good person.)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:39:36 (GMT)
From: Scot Jamieson
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: I do not have any reason to trust Dettmers
Message:
I've heard this from other non-exes. it makes me ask myself, why do I believe him? First, I know he is who he claims to be - the ex right hand man of Maharaji. Also, I've talked to him face to face about Maharaji when he was doing that sevice and I was a community rep. That counts for something with me. The strongest negative reaction ever pulled out of me by all the years of having my dedication questioned, tested, denigrated etc. was my reaction against the tightly organized hierarchic approach to K known as DUO. I hated it like poison. It was just before Mischler left. When he left, and M went back to the devotional approach, I thought, 'Excellent.' Dettmers came to a meeting of Canadian coordinators iin Manitoba the next year ('77) and I met him there. I had been elected by a community election to be the local rep and I had to be considered a loose cannon by the people who had appointed all the other coordinators. In hindsight, I don't think anyone understood what anyone else was talking about there - or anywhere in the premie world - in the confusion of those days. The one and only place we could touch base was our mutual respect for, and our complete trust in Maharaji. This included 'the gunslinger,' me, and 'the sherriff,' Dettmers.
So I felt that with Dettmers. I used to feel the same 'fellow devotee' feeling with Bill Sparks, who was in a couple of ashrams with me. I hear he's now at M's Malibu residence. I remember a dream I had when I was in the ashram, of Bill and me being in some disaster zone. A city on fire, and flooded as well - no power, people drowning, chaos. Though we didn't speak to each other in the dream, we weren't afraid or even disturbed by the disasters. We Had Knowledge. We found a boat, rescued people, enjoyed it - it was just another service project. It was a great, wake-up-laughing dream. For me, that approach to K, the give-all approach, is now blocked by several barriers, M closing the ashrams being the first. The ashrams themselves are a dream, now.
But I do go by intuition, dreams . . . (I first met M in a dream.) For example, I trust - you. 'Deradune' could be an alias. Isn't that the name of M's old residence in India? Gut feeling - not always easy to determine, but good to go by. Often, you have to go by it, because Time isn't going to let us sit around till all the proofs are in. So, I just do trust that you are sincere. I don't need proof of anything.
Just reading what Dettmers says should convince people, I think. The change in his tone as the months go by - this convinces me. His stance of 'let them take me to court,' this is convincing. The poise and yet passion in his words convinces. One other thing - he stands to gain NOTHING but a clear conscience from what he says. Or do you imagine Jim Heller sending him a cheque every time he posts? Sorry for the sarcasm.
Ah, it's not easy. I may only be talking to myself. In the end, we are all only going back to ourselves, and the big party of life will be over. But for our brief moments on the big stage, we get to TRY to say the truth. I still want to try this, anyway.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:46:38 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Scot Jamieson
Subject: Michelle - read Scot's post and think a bit. (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:31:05 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: yeah and u know rawat personally, right?
Message:
zz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:06:31 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Scot Jamieson
Subject: Hey Scot
Message:
My husband Brian usually is the one who puts Journeys on line - he's recovering from eye surgery right now. (So it's not your Journey that is holding things up!)

Did you post here a couple of months ago? Sorry I can't remember, but you may know how THAT is!

TC,
Katie H.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:13:11 (GMT)
From: Scot J
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: Hey Scot
Message:
I haven't really done a big 'coming out' posting here. I've started joining in on some threads, lately. I had a couple of phone calls with Jim Heller. We're old fellow ashramites. Hello, Katie H, by the way!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:51:14 (GMT)
From: DISRUPTOR
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: YOU ARE What are you getting? FEET?? NT
Message:
NT
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:39:55 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: before you go could you send me a picture?
Message:
Michele,

When you used to come to the Forum as Red Heels I had a real big crush on you and even did a little visualization fantasy role playing with whomever I thought you were, if you know what I mean. It was a difficult time for me as I had been recently divorced from my wife of over fifteen years and I was very lonesome.

So, what do you think? Could you email me something? Maybe a photo still from one of your movies?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:29:21 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Roger, how could you?
Message:
Roger, you know I was Red Heels, and I sent you lots of pictures, but you never showed up and stopped writing.

You bitch.

Antonia the whip.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:01:49 (GMT)
From: Michele Deradune
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Before I send it
Message:
I just wanted to mention...that I know very well that you will probably turn my picture into something as hideous as possible for people that hate me to view. Like I said before to Jim, with the dissing I have seen Maharaji take here, I know I am in good company -- and I am trying to show him I am sincere that I will put up with just about anything and do whatever I have to do so that he will hear me and allow me to come see him. I want to talk to him in private, maybe for a whole afternoon.

The picture will be on its way in a moment.

Michele (not an ex!)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:10:49 (GMT)
From: ~silvia~ the forum angel
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: You are an ex, you just don't know it yet
Message:
Ex-premie really means a REAL HUMAN BEING.

You sound so insecure M, it reminds me of me when I start posting here...take the makeup out. You are an intelligent being behind all the 'makeup' chuchi put on you!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:33:20 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: people that HATE u? GROW UP !!!!! (NT)
Message:
ZZ
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:18:30 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Man you blow it
Message:
I wouldn't trust this guy with my grandmother skelliton:)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:08:38 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: I will not desecrate your image!!!
Message:
No, I will appreciate whatever beautiful image you send to me. I have just been told by someone who worked with you at IHQ that you are very beautiful.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:42:05 (GMT)
From: Michele Deradune
Email: michele@deradune.com
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Yes, I've got just the one for you
Message:
Oh God, thanks for the comic relief!! I needed that. Well, yes, actually I do have one picture that was taken on the set when I was wearing black lingerie. I will send you a copy of the picture if you e-mail me, or you can wait just a little bit and see it on my website soon. (I plan to make my website very personal -- including announcing any movies I'm in.)

The picture is from a movie called 'Snake Tales' where I played a small (but principal) role as a cheating wife and later in the movie a waitress/diner owner. It is an independent film with zero 'big name' stars and it is a comedy. It just won 'Best Independent Comedy' at a Chicago award thingy, and it will premiere with something like 4 showings in Chicago the third week of June at the Gene Ciskel Film Center. There will be an award ceremony, put on I believe by the School of the Art Institute of Chicago at the Ciskel Film Center on June 24th. The director of the film, Francesca Talenti, is being flown up for the awards ceremony and I look forward to talking with her when she gets back to find out if the movie will finally get a distributor!! ;) Thanks for asking.

I hope you like my picture. ;)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:25:39 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: You broke your promise!
Message:
Sheee's Baaaaackkk! Go to Satsang and stop trying to put new spins on the Page News. OK it's not about EV cuzzzz EV is The Biggy Creepy Cult Leader. See. We've gone over this MICHELLE.

Can't stay away from the truth! You can't commit to anything. Are you promising or threatening not to post. But you don't have this much fun with the Cultsters and those top DOGGGGSS (woof woof).

I won't go to EV to read your ShitDribbly Gobbly Gook Horseshit because you don't even commit to your own opinion. WonderWhy?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:57:20 (GMT)
From: Michele Deradune
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Thank you, Deborah
Message:
You are now the third person on my list of people never to read their posts.

Michele (not an ex)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:23:19 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: While you're here, Michele
Message:
Would you please answer the following:

1) Did you post as 'Danny'? Was that you?

2) How about 'Cerise'?

3) What other names besides Red Heels, etc. did you post under?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:40:16 (GMT)
From: Michele Deradune
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: My answer -- and a question for you or J-M too!
Message:
Hi, Jim.

I am certain that I never posted as Danny or Cerise (and neither name means anything to me). However you were correct that I also posted as 'red heart.' I had forgotten all about that nickname, which was probably my favorite. ;) Go figure. I have also never posted on this website from anywhere but my own computer and on my own ISP, so whoever it techie here and figures out that stuff, I believe it is 100% safe to say that anything posted from my ISP was me (in other words, I have never had premie friends or anyone over here as a visitor that used my computer that could have posted here -- being that so few ever use my computer and the only 3 people in the last couple years have been my son, his best friend and the son of some old friends of mine, who is not interested enough in Maharaji to ever find or care about this website).

Damn, I'm wordy. My constant bane. I am curious: if you don't mind, would you either repost or e-mail me what Danny and Cerise posted? (I would probably like it, since you thought it was me, LOL!!) Also: are Danny and Cerise the same person, or can you tell -- by checking the ISP?

Cheers

Michele Deradune (not an ex)

P.S. Do you know where Maharaji is right now? How many events has he cancelled recently? Is that really true that he cancelled events? (Sorry, I'm still slow on navigating this website and I know this sort of thing has been discussed but I am not fast enough on how to find the information and must get back to work for awhile!)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:48:43 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Can we continue a bit?
Message:
Cerise and Danny were two likely fraudulent posters who you might well like. Do an archive search and you'll find them. Sorry, but that's what I'd have to do to track them down. It's easy. All you have to do is find the search engine which is around here somewhere.

As for Maharaji cancelling programs, I'm out of that loop. I'm just in the bitter, ex-lover loop. You know, this one.

Michele, really, so many have asked you about this but I don't recall seeing you answer anywhere. How in the world can you scapegoat EV with a straight face? I mean, John's questions are excellent. Who exactly is it that's running EV contrary to Maharaji's express commands? Tell me one major decision that organization's ever made that wasn't his idea, or that, at the very least, he didn't sign off on?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:13:27 (GMT)
From: Michele Deradune
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Can we continue a bit?
Message:
Hmmm...intriguing and stimulating question, Jim...(you really can't even tell me where the search engine *is*?)

I tend to answer with silence three kinds of posts: the ones I have not yet read, the ones just dissing me or Maharaji; and the ones where I really don't feel I have the answer.

You're question here falls into the last category. I *dearly* wish I could talk with Maharaji and ask himself how it all works. At this point, with so much that has been totally fucked up both in DUO and now in EV, I don't really trust anyone's answer but his -- and yet, I have not had the opportunity to ask him, and as you know, writing to him does not usually mean one will get a response from him. Take me for instance. As you may have noticed, I write, and a lot. I have tried not to write Maharaji too much, figuring that if I wrote him for instance every week that I would just be a pest and he would surely never read my letters. I have tried to hold back and not write too often. I have written him letters that require no response, such as letters of thanks, and in one case I remember particularly vividly I did get an answer from him while I was practicing -- a simple acknowledgement that he received my letter, but nothing more.

Maybe I'm paranoid, but I get the feeling for a very, very, very long time now that a person or more likely more than one person has access to all of Maharaji's mail and gives him only the mail of those he personally knows (and who they know he always wants to see their letters) plus whatever ones THEY (whoever 'they' is, I don't know, but I learned a tiny bit I'll tell you in just a minute) decide to give him. I strongly suspect that most of my letters never reached him personally. Once, when I was in the ashram, I wrote him a letter asking him to attend a program that night. Later someone who had been at his residence told me that Marolyn (Durgaji, his wife -- I don't even know what we are supposed to call her these days because she is so rarely referred to at all!) had read my letter to Maharaji out loud. (If anyone reports this post to Marolyn, please thank her for me!!) But other than those two instances I have had zero indication that Maharaji has read any of my other letters.

Now, look at me for a minute. How many people have posted angrily this week that I have not responded to their posts, or have not responded quickly enough to their posts? I don't know how many, but I can tell you it's been enough to make me feel very tired. And this is 1/10th of a tiny drop compared to a small ocean of the correspondence Maharaji must be receiving. My God, there must be so many e-mails, letters and otherwise delivered messages to him that it would drive a girl like me totally bananas!!!! (Oh Swami, calm down, I should be allowed to say banance once in a while, LOL.)

Oh. But there was one time I wrote to him in the past year with some feedback where I was saying that I like to hear what he has to say at the different Knowledge reviews, because I've been to a couple and at each one he gave different valuable information that was exceedingly random. (For instance, at one he said that there is no problem practicing laying down as long as you don't fall asleep.) I found that sort of thing extremely helpful. It allows me to practice hours longer, knowing I can lay down without feeling like I'm cheating, LOL. So anyhow, I was letting him know that I found these various and sundry comments very helpful and that that was the one thing I was not liking about the automatic video Knowledge sessions (auto-Knowledge sessions I think it's been called) -- because I saw that when it first came out at a program for prems only in Miami, and it was just the techniques and nothing else -- no chit-chat about whether it's okay to have long fingernails or not, etc. I got a response and at first was unable to believe my eyes, because the e-mail was from 'maharaji@maharaji.org' -- but it all got real believable again when I opened the e-mail only to discover it was a well-meant gesture -- but from an instructor. She told me not to worry that I was 'all caught up' on everything. I didn't want to bother her with complaints, so I only told her how nice it was to get a response (after all it was my first response from a letter to him, even though it wasn't him). But the fact is, she was wrong, wrong, wrong. I am not all caught up, because there are a number of Knowledge reviews I was unable to attend. I know he said good stuff there and I may never get to hear it unless they release the videotapes of those portions of his live Knowledge reviews. I had stated that in my letter, but she had not responded to that. Soooo....

I have been very frustrated with the inability to communicate in a back-and-forth with Maharaji, although I did get to ask him some questions at a premie-only meeting a few years ago. I asked more questions than any other premie there and got the feeling I was hogging his Q&A time, but I didn't care, LOL. I asked 4 or 5 questions. Unfortunately, at that time I was not at the place I am now. At that time I had this question you ask in my mind, but I was not bold enough to come right out and ask it. It's so weird how it is human nature (not just in cult-like structures, but permeating through all of society) that we don't like others to disapprove of us. Other people frown at us, and we hurt; other people suspect us, and we feel stung; other people criticize us, and we feel beat up. I was afraid if I asked a question like that that all of those things would happen. But it's my fault for being a coward. I didn't ask him, Jim.

However, I will tell you this: Something verrrry interesting happened at that meeting. (February 14, 1998 I believe it was.) Lots of questions were asked of Maharaji. The questions and answers must have gone on for an hour or two hours -- but really I have no sense of time when I am with him, so don't take my word on that!! Anyhow, there was one way Maharaji kept answering so many questions: Ask the instructors. Ask the instructors. Ask the instructors. It was clear to me he was setting some new precedent, and that he meant for instructors to take on a helluva lot more responsibility than I have seen them take just about ever. He gave that answer to many times that it was clear to me that the main thing I learned from that entire conference was that if we had any problems or questions at all, we should go to an instructor. Okay. Got it.

Well guess what? Shit happened in my town right after an instructor came to visit. I called the instructor and he just passed the buck to a non-instructor who was of no help. Then a different instructor came to our town a month or so later. More shit happened, and I e-mailed instructor number two, telling him our terrible problems here. We realllllly needed help. The fucker didn't even answer my e-mail. Fuck the instructors.

Sorry this post was so long. I hope it was worth your time reading it.

Jim, I kinda like you. I don't know why. Maybe because you talk to me like a person. Thanks.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:34:47 (GMT)
From: ~silvia~ the forum 'angel
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: You don't answer questions simply because
Message:
YOU CAN'T! Cult memebers cannot be sincere with themselves, less alone answering others questions. What about respect? If you want a monologue stand infront of a mirror and talk to yourself. Why come here then?

Splash...and she fell into the water...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 08:47:52 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Can we continue a bit?
Message:
Michele,

I just saw one of the most depressing movies I've ever seen. It's called Requiem For A Dream. It puts American Beauty to shame. Reading your post with the misery of this film still reverberating in my mind gives me a different perspective of where you're at. All the people in this movie lead tragic lives, and the movie ends with little or no hope that their lives are going to get any better any time soon. In fact, it looks like things are just going to go from bad to worse for them. But who knows? Maybe things will get better.

So, this is how I see it with you. You're dreams concerning Maharaji have never been fulfilled. It's a tragedy. You live on hope. But what's getting better? You imagine he's read your letters, but you don't really know that. You imagine these unknown, sinister forces in EV coming between him and you. Again, you don't know that. It's tragic. Here you are, a person who waits with abated breath to hear what's okay and what's not to come from the mouth of Maharaji. It use to trouble you to lie down to meditate, but now that Maharaji has said it's okay, he's put your mind to rest. It seems your whole sense of direction is dependent on which way Maharaji points you. But where have you gone with him, Michele? Where has he taken you? Now he doesn't even want to bother talking to you, or anybody else, at all. Tell it to somebody else is what he tells you. And that pisses you off to no end.

So, from the tone of your posts I'd say you're still a long way from realizing whatever dreams you had when you first took up with Maharaji, and if you're like me, and most other premies who care to admit it, you're further away from realizing that dream than you ever were. The question is, are you capable of putting that dream to rest? A lot of people aren't. It's tragic.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:43:18 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Excellent post, Jerry! Well put. (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:12:38 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Link to EPO SEARCH ENGINE for you
Message:
http://www.ex-premie.org/search.cgi

Best to bookmark it.

JohnT
never a premie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:19:26 (GMT)
From: Michele Deradune
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Can we continue a bit? OOPS, correction!
Message:
The fucker *did* answer my e-mail -- but only to pass the buck. He acted like I had tried to hand him a dirty diaper. Pissed me off big-time because I also learned that the very same instructor, whom we had welcomed here with open arms, treated him like an honored guest, bought him dinner, provided him a nice hotel suite and catered to his every wish -- and the community here is far from brimming over with money -- he had the GALL to give a report to Elan Vital that coming to our community 'wasn't even worth it.' Two dozen people came to see him at our little hall. Two dozen people weren't fucking worth it.

To that instructor who came to Austin, Tex the time I am talking about:
Fuck you. You know who you are!!!!! And I am certain you are too yellow-bellied to admit to Maharaji that you everything I said above is the gospel truth. Sorry, asshole, but I don't take kindly to people pretending to represent Maharaji -- and acting the way you do.

Okay. I've lost my temper again. Must needs go for the night. My apologies to whoever else is waiting for my respond. I can only go as fast as I can go, no more.

Michele (not an ex!)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:20:23 (GMT)
From: ~silvia~ the forum angel
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Right on Michelle, now you're talking.
Message:
The same here...we even gave 'them' a basket of goddies for their hotel room, spent what we didn't have...sniff...I could have bought clothes for my son...

The fucker *did* answer my e-mail -- but only to pass the buck. He acted like I had tried to hand him a dirty diaper. Pissed me off big-time because I also learned that the very same instructor, whom we had welcomed here with open arms, treated him like an honored guest, bought him dinner, provided him a nice hotel suite and catered to his every wish -- and the community here is far from brimming over with money

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:30:16 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Can we continue a bit? OOPS, correction!
Message:
Michele,

I just finished my big, long post to you above ('I can answer that') when I noticed your reply to me here. As you didn't quote my questions, i didn't, at first, recall exactly what I'd asked you. But I read your post first anyway, thinking it would be clear soon enough. I mean, I knew that I'd asked you about scapegoating EV, I just wasn't sure exactly what I'd said.

Anyway, by the time I finished your post I felt like I'd learned a few more things about your own interaction with premies and Maharaji. Thanks for that. However, it was clear that you'd actually completely side-stepped my questions!

Here they are again:

Michele, really, so many have asked you about this but I don't recall seeing you answer anywhere. How in the world can you scapegoat EV with a straight face? I mean, John's questions are excellent. Who exactly is it that's running EV contrary to Maharaji's express commands? Tell me one major decision that organization's ever made that wasn't his idea, or that, at the very least, he didn't sign off on?

Am I to assume that you don't know of a single rogue EV 'functionary'? Am I to assume that you don't know of a single major decision that M hasn't approved? You haven't said otherwise, if not. Come on, Michele, let's get real about this. You've hung your hat on EV being bad, and Maharaji good. If that doesn't fly, you're in trouble intellectually and you know it. But I say it doesn't fly. So there you go. It's a simple, discrete subject. We're not talking about 'that love' or anything of the sort. This is eminently discussable. Let's hash it out, shall we?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:21:47 (GMT)
From: Michele Deradune
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It's not like I know all the answers, Jim!!!!!
Message:
Damn, I can't believe I'm still here. I'm going to try again to answer your question. It is not easy since I am not 'in the know' about things such as the top echelon and how things really are. I have never 'been there.' I have never been an executive in Maharaji's organizations and I have never been close friends with an executive in his organizations.

That said, I think my answer is what I said in a recent post that maybe you didn't read yet where I explained that I believe Maharaji has made a number of wrong directives -- and that I believe this is out of his inability to 'grok' what is going on -- and I want to talk to him personally so that I can talk to him about many of these important issues. (I say many and not all, because there are some things about him that bother you that don't bother me.)

If that didn't answer your question, I don't know what else to say except goodnight.

Michele (not an ex)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:50:06 (GMT)
From: ~silvia~ the forum angel
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Why is this Michelle. Read please
Message:
That said, I think my answer is what I said in a recent post that maybe you didn't read yet where I explained that I believe Maharaji has made a number of wrong directives -- and that I believe this is out of his inability to 'grok' what is going on -- and I want to talk to him personally so that I can talk to him about many of these important issues. (I say many and not all, because there are some things about him that bother you that don't bother me.)

Ask yourself why is it that such a puuuure master, so so pure, as to impply, perfect, can blow it sooooo often? I know from good souces very funny things this puuure master does in his private life...Do you?

He wants you to think needy of him so you come back to give your bucks so he can continue his high lifestyle WE accustom him to. He used to sleep anywere, remember??

Silvia, Ex-aspirant Contact of Detroit, Michigan, who communicated with EV by personal and conference calls. I have a cassette somewhere (that in time its transcript will be here)of one of them that premie Candy Wilmore gave Roger Spanguolo and he gave it to me one time I couldn't listen to it to prove what EV is up to: All is THE SPEAKER's wish darling, all.) I mentioned since you came here: Remember is not good to look foolish talking about what we do not know. phoney bologna

love 2 u! ;)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:27:28 (GMT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: PLANT ALL OVER GUYS, ....NT
Message:
yes
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:22:51 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Imagine this
Message:
I know you won't respond to this (because you haven't responded to most responses to your previous posts), but I just want to ask this question.

Who is it in EV that has the balls to stand up to Maharaji? Who is it that can run an organisation that does things that Maharaji doesn't like? Who is it that dares to challenge Maharaji's will?

After all these years, who are the premies in EV that interfere with Maharaji's work?

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:33:50 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Imagine... he keeps firing the ones that do
Message:
yet somehow they get replaced immediately with others who take no notice of him and keep on running this cult-power-trip-thingy! He must be the unluckiest sadguru in the history of the world, and to think this time he came with more power than ever before! just not quite enough for those awful EV-types, according to Michele. No wonder he's got her sympathy, i'm starting to feel rather sorry for him myself!

Michele can't keep away, there's a little part of her still recognises the truth when she hears it, despite miragey's best efforts. Seems he's failed there, too. Tut tut.

Ciao, John, hope you're keeping the champers chilled...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 07:47:42 (GMT)
From: Michele Deradune
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: there must be a reason for this
Message:
The strangest thing about this website is that you all seem to have ALL, and I mean ALL the answers -- yet you ask questions at a rate of 1,000 miles per minute and start dropping torpedoes on anyone that doesn't respond (or respond quickly enough).

But the fact is, I cannot stand to see Maharaji dissed all the time anymore. As much as I like to learn things from you all, the price is becoming too great.

You would rather see me go mad than see me continue to love Maharaji, of this I am certain. And I would truly have to be mad to tell myself I could withstand this much longer.

Excuse me while I go insane.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 10:44:07 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Not like that, like this
Message:
Michelle: You would rather see me go mad than see me continue to love Maharaji, of this I am certain. And I would truly have to be mad to tell myself I could withstand this much longer.

Excuse me while I go insane.

The thing is, Michelle, you do not love Maharaji. I know you feel that you do, but what you love is your idea of him. What you love is just a concept, a facade. You 'love' M in much the same way that a person may love, well, a pop star, Britney Spears, perhaps, without ever getting to know the person at all... You love your idea of M, not the man (who is unworthy of your especial love, of that I am certain).

But the love that you feel is your love, it comes from you and you are the sole ground and substance of its being. Nothing you can feel that can't be felt, right?

Hanging around here will drive you sane. You cannot sincerely converse here for any length of time without being obliged to think things through. This is not to do with any special powers or magic possessed by the home team. It is simply because the beliefs (and sometimes these have been very comforting to you, I am sure) that you have are at variance with reality.

I don't think being here has ever caused anyone to lose their reason. Rather the contrary, I should say. But the feelings of going insane can be intense. When a carefully constructed belief system (with loads of emotional and ego involvement) crumbles, it can feel as if you too are crumbling.

Regardless of the role of Mr Rawat (and let me be plain that I like neither the man nor his methods) it is clear to me you can accept that EV is an unhealthy and cultish clique. You may wish to consider whether some cult exit-counselling may be of benefit to you at this time.

JohnT
not an ex, either

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:21:20 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: :)) yup Cjani...and hes been unlucky for 30yrs (nt
Message:
zz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:39:01 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: I like it with Brandy (ot)
Message:
Latvian brandy of course. Works really well. BTW, do you remember playing the piano in the mall in LA after the Long Beach program? I thought you were awesome, but what do I know about music.

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:50:17 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: I like it! You obviously know a lot...ot
Message:
and not just about brandy either! Yes, I enjoyed that, our last programme together as premies - hooray!! i remember the drive up to Malibu in the mist - it was magical, and you were very brave to drive on the right. I've tried it here, but it doesn't work quite so well.

How are the horses?

Love Jane

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:21:01 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: Hey, Michele, have a laugh with us below NT
Message:
k
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:46:26 (GMT)
From: Michele Deradune
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Hey, Michele, have a laugh with us below NT
Message:
PatC, I love to read anything that is truly funny. Please tell me where below. (What word can I use with the 'word find' feature to find it quickly?) I *must* run off for now -- pressed on a deadline -- but am looking forward to reading something funny. =)

I'm trying not to post here. Please could everyone help me not to post here by giving directions like that without my asking in future? There is a part of my brain that works very fast and is very smart but another part that seems retarded, it is so slow to catch on! I am very good at things once I really understand them, but I am incredibly slow to learn anything really unfamiliar (e.g., techie stuff like how to read all the posts here in lightning speed).

Maybe the people who hate to see me post here can help with this too -- and remember that if you give me 'directions for dummies' all the time that whoever else is lurking and reading here will also be helped to navigate. That will make you feel better, knowing that it doesn't only help me, no?

I'm outta here!!

Michele Deradune (not an ex!)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:03:37 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: Michele Deradune
Subject: since when did this become the source of
Message:
the real news about miragey? So not everything said here is lies, then? We're more trustworthy than m's servants, EV? And now you even trust us to read your mind and give you all the information you need without asking for it? WELL! ONe day you'll post here as an ex, believe me. I have faith in you. There are a couple of brain cells left unpolluted by m's illusion. Even now, an original thought may be forming, sparking the inevitable realisation. You're hooked on the freedom we have here, it just won't be the same on your own site where there are lots of rules and control- no fun! It'd be just like cultdom again...
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:17:59 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: In one way we are at a disadvantage in any
Message:
propaganda war with EV.

They thrive on lies, deceit, secrecy and revisionism.....and have time to plot , scheme and manipulate according to whichever way the wind blows re....what we are saying, feeling, discussing in full public view.

Wouldn't want it any way though .....the truth will out.

Ev monitors are beginning to fascinate me. The pschology of it all......are they convinced they are undertaking some deep, cosmic, divine service in keeping detractors at bay? I wonder if they read this whole site or just the forum ? Do they experience the 'bliss' of service and surrender ( barf ) when reading our posts? Do they have beautiful meditations and undisturbed sleep :))

Dermot

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:24:13 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Not so : faced with the truth propaganda ....
Message:
...evaporates .

The advantage is ours because this site is the only place where anyone who has an interest in this stuff can find out real info. about Rawat's doings .

Whether it's all true , partially true , all untrue , subjective , objective , or combinations of those it's here for the taking .

Make your own mind up lurkers . Feel free to put in your 2 pennyworth .

Seems as though Rawat is cutting loose from EV. PR wise ,(he's always been a cunning fucker) so I can't imagine the head space of those entrusted with the task of airbrushing his path .

Actually I can : Rawat is GOD , gotta go for it .

Pat Dorrity

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:42:41 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: No, Bin, I don't think so
Message:
Bin,

It's virtually impossible for m to cut loose from EV. Sure, he might scapegoat some past EV personnel but he can't diss the curent organization too much. That wouldn't make any sense and even they, the cult members, would see it.

What we have in Michele is one premie's desparate attempt to make sense of a distorted picture. That's all, I think.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:14:35 (GMT)
From: mr.bojangles
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Not so : faced with the truth propaganda ....
Message:
If he cuts loose from EV, what are all those aspiring to be closer to God gonna do. How will they see their place in eternity , all curled up and cushy, with maharajis tight little arse in their faces, all swirling around in some divine ectoplasm of the accumalated cum and proteen, made from of the hours of med. they put in and all that unconditional service and all the credit they are getting from poor bastards they managed to convince, that the arsehole was God, where will all of them be going now, I ask you? Bo.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:21:16 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: mr.bojangles
Subject: Don't know ....out maybe ? (nt)
Message:
m
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:54:24 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Premies now allowed to 'interact and express'!
Message:
Hmmm, I wonder if I (or anyone not scheduled) would be allowed to get up and 'personally express'.

AN EVENING OF APPRECIATION - JUNE 9
-----------------------------------
You are warmly invited to attend an Evening of Appreciation for people with
Knowledge to celebrate the success of many recent projects. David Mankoff
will be the guest speaker presenting the following topics:

- International tours and 2001 events with Maharaji in North America and
worldwide
- Preparation for ongoing events in the Knowledge Center in Amaroo
- Broadcasts and materials
- Propagation efforts

There will be video presentations as well as interactions and personal
expressions
. The event will be held at Puget Sound Video Presentations in
the
Johnson Controls Building in Bellevue. It will take place on Saturday June 9
at 7:30 PM and will last approximately one and a half hours. Doors will open
at 7:00 PM for refreshments.

You are welcome to invite others who might also be interested in attending.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:35:44 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Richard and David Mankoff
Subject: david,stop screaming at yer girlfriend lngdistance
Message:
on people's phones! you tied up the phone line for hours with your dysfunctional relationship. [oh yeah, like that was service and satsang.] 'interact and express'? You total meshuganah!

salaam shalom and lentils,

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:47:19 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: I'm there!
Message:
One short Clipper ride and we're in. Pick us up, Richard?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:11:29 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm there!
Message:
Sure, Jim. I'll be the guy with the goofy grin and rainbow guru button.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:59:10 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Are you serious?
Message:
Well, why not. But will we get in?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 20:02:15 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Hm....
Message:
Gerry, After I posted this Laurie told me that she's got out of town clients coming in next weekend.

Hm..... Patty's laid up, right? What say we go to this thing together and try to pick up some premie babes? You know, a little satsang.... maybe talk about the 'x-rated' scene, watch a video ....

How IS Patty anyway?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:19:09 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: OH Jim, Will you bring me back a souvenir? (nt)
Message:
zz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:03:13 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: What kind? (nt)
Message:
ggggg
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:07:48 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: just don't bring any *souvenirs* home t Laurie nt
Message:
snicker)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 20:15:33 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: don't tempt me...
Message:
I'm still suffering from loss of consortium. Wonder if Red Heels will be there.

Patty's getting better and better, more and more, with each breath, she's seen the preciousness of this life, this knee joint, this ability to walk. Oh it must be grace.

Yeah, she's healing up just fine, but was hit pretty darn hard. Imagine someone swinging a sledge hammer and hitting your knee with all their might.

Hey, we could catch satsang with arjuna in seattle and then hit the party in bellvue all blissed out! Sounds like a plan to me...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:13:46 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: A little help for all our premie pals!
Message:
I like to celebrate, too

Party time !!!

Be there or be square !!!

Does this mean I have to buy a tie to go with my sneakers and jeans??

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:13:02 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Sounds like fundraising to me (nt)
Message:
I'm not round, I'm twisted and bent.

(nicked from Trashcan Sinatras)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:52:06 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Goober dun a good deed., makes *A* list
Message:
Contributions Received

The Embassy of India thankfully acknowledges receipt of over 3000 checks of varying amounts in favor of the Prime Minister's Relief Fund for being utilized for relief work in the earthquake affected areas of Gujarat.

As on February 22, 2001, the Embassy has received about US $ 600,000 from individuals and organizations from different parts of the United States. We are making all efforts to individually acknowledge each check at the earliest.

While we are thankful for the smallest contribution that has come, we list below the contributions of US $ 1000 and above received by us so far:

Mr. Prem Pal Singh Rawat ($ 5000)
Malibu, CA 90265

Bless you Lard, once again you have shattered my conceptions!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:50:34 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Give him back his nickel and send him to hell (nt)
Message:
fffffff
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:08:19 (GMT)
From: S
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: It's easy to be generous with money that
Message:
is not yours or that you didn't earn.

He is giving away our money!

I bet what you want that HE NEVER gave to anybody ANYTHING!

Remember when I requested help from them because of my teeth?

His is garbage!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:58:13 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Bad Goober dun a bad deed, sues his mommy
Message:
In the matter of C. L. Tandon v. Prem Pal Singh Rawat, AIR 1978 Delhi 221, the same test that the decision in the earlier suit must operate as res judicata to attract the rigours of section 10 was reiterated in the following words (page 226) :

'One valuable touchstone for determining whether the matters in issue are directly and substantially the same is whether the decision in the prior suit will bring the principle of res judicata into operation in the subsequent suit. Because the removal of Prem Pal Singh Rawat by Mataji and the nomination in his place of Satya Pal Singh Rawat and the competence of Mataji to do the same, issues of utmost importance, are alien to the Patna suit, the disposal of the suit at Patna will not stand in the way of the trial of the said issues by the appropriate courts.'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:09:49 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Any techies? ..Pia's site and the pop ups ...
Message:
Who would or could put up the pop up windows trying to divert people to official m and EV sites?

It can't be EV without Pia's permission, right? Or Wrong?

I'm trying to work it out . After thinking about it I don't think EV will be happy that the site is up. It will obviously make the neutral/ curious visitor wonder what the other side of the story is and thus help to bring traffic here. Once here there is so much documented info proving cultship I just don't think Rawat would like ANYONE finding their way here.

But the pop up window is Pia's responsibility, yeah? So does she want to divert people from her site immediately ( no, guess not) or does she want her visitors to think there are only two m sites and that ex-prem.org doesn't actually exist? Hmm.

As has been mentioned ...the pics didn't last long. Presumably EV ordered her to remove them ( or synchronistically 'requested' her...same thing). So maybe they think without a face to a name visitors may confuse m with maharishi or some other peddlar :))

I'm wondering how long the site will stay up actually. I just don't see how ( apart from preaching to the already converted) it can help Rawat in the long run.

Alternatively EV could be dumber than I think and be using the site, the recent JM slander post etc and other stuff to come as a concerted effort to fight back. Somehow though ( as much as I am by nature a conspiracy theorist : )) )I don't think so.

Any comments?

Cheers

Dermot

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:32:17 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Pia's 'Independent' site and 'staff'?
Message:
'Editorial' See 'links' at top for 'Staff Articles'.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:38:40 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: as f SAYS ....VOMITORIUM :)) (nt)
Message:
zz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:33:01 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Pop-ups
Message:
Hey Dermot -
I think the pop-ups are intentional and are meant for people who are doing a web search on Maharaji for information, and find Pia's site (obviously Pia's site would either confuse people who didn't know the history, and/or lead them directly to ex-premie.org!)

I guess it's worth a try...don't know how successful they will be in diverting people!

TC,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:21:13 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Any techies? ..Pia's site and the pop ups ...
Message:
The window is written in Javascript, which executes while the man sites loads. It used a lot in advertising. If you disable scripting on your browser then you will notice that the pop-up doesn't run.

As for the rest I don't know, this chick could be doing this by herself or EV could be helping. But having the gugu's picture removed can only mean that EV interveened.

And Alaah knows better.

Salam on the straight and narrow.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:34:08 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Pia's site hosting info
Message:
Here is the Who Is search results for IT-AINT-SO.ORG. Not much of interest other than omnis.com is the domain server (web host) located in Torrence, CA. No web hosts in Denmark?

Organization:
Pia Ji
Pia Grunbaum
solnavej
Soborg, DK 12000
DK
Phone: +45 80 80 80 80
Email: response@it-aint-so.org
Registrar Name....: Register.com
Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com
Registrar Homepage: http://www.register.com

Domain Name: IT-AINT-SO.ORG

Created on..............: Wed, May 09, 2001
Expires on..............: Thu, May 09, 2002
Record last updated on..: Fri, Jun 01, 2001

Administrative Contact:
Pia Ji
Pia Grunbaum
solnavej
Soborg, DK 12000
DK
Phone: +45 80 80 80 80
Email: response@it-aint-so.org

Technical Contact:
Pia Ji
Pia Grunbaum
solnavej
Soborg, DK 12000
DK
Phone: +45 80 80 80 80
Email: response@it-aint-so.org
Zone Contact:
Pia Ji
Pia Grunbaum
solnavej
Soborg, DK 12000
DK
Phone: +45 80 80 80 80
Email: response@it-aint-so.org

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.OMNIS.COM 216.239.128.2
NS2.OMNIS.COM 216.239.128.3

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:28:21 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Who is
Message:
Am trying to do one on EV Canda

http://www.elanvital.ca/

to check for their server. Having some sort of trouble. Can you do it.

Also try this site

http://www.ellwoodassoc.com/

You will know why.

There is a large JavaSript file on Pia's site which I don't think she is capable of writing.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:42:02 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: www.ellwoodassoc.com
Message:
Ellwood Associates hosted Elan Vital, Canada's web site.
Registrant information for both ellwoodassoc.com and elanvital.ca is shown below.
There is at least one stylistic similarity between the www.ellwoodassic.com web site and the wwww.it-aint-so.org web site, the use of a mid-tone grey for text, both precisely #808080, that is, a neutral grey half-way between blank and white.
Clinton Hussey, the registrant of ellwoodassoc.com is a graphics designer.

ellwoodassoc:
------------

Registrant:
Mr Clinton Hussey
3555 West 21 Avenue
Vancouver
BC
V6S1H1
CA

Domain Name: ELLWOODASSOC.COM

Administrative Contact, Billing Contact, Technical Contact:
'Mr Clinton Hussey'
Phone: 604 737-8674
Fax: 604 646-9032
Registrar:
'Easyspace Hostmaster'
Phone: http://support.easyspace.com
Fax: +44 1932 350 222

Record last updated on 2001-01-22.
Record created on 2000-03-27.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.OURNAMESERVER.NET 63.102.200.110
NS2.OURNAMESERVER.NET 63.102.204.238

Domains from $7.50 per year - http://www.easyspace.com

Registrar transfers FREE plus 1 years renewal fee - http://www.easyspace.com
The previous information has been obtained either directly from the registrant or a registrar of the domain name other than Network Solutions. Network Solutions, therefore, does not guarantee its accuracy or
completeness.

elanvital.ca (from www.register.com):
------------------------------------
Whois Results for elanvital.ca

----------------------------------------------------------
admin_fax : +1 (450) 969-3804
admin_mailbox : legere@compuserve.com
admin_name : Georges Legere
admin_phone : +1 (450) 969-3803
admin_postal :
GEORGES LEGERE,
PRESIDENT,ELAN VITAL INC.,
1391 DU RELAIS ,LAVAL QC H2Y 1Z7 CAN
admin_title : President
date_approved : 2000/10/09
date_modified : 2001/05/01
date_renewal : 2002/01/28
description : Elan Vital is a registered charitable organization that sponsors events and conference throughout Canada and around the world at which Maharaji is invited to speak
ns1_hostname : ns1.webdns.net
ns1_netaddress :
ns2_hostname : ns2.webdns.net
ns2_netaddress :
ns3_hostname :
ns3_netaddress :
ns4_hostname :
ns4_netaddress :
ns5_hostname :
ns5_netaddress :
ns6_hostname :
ns6_netaddress :
organization : Elan Vital
registrar : DomainsAtCost Corp.
tech_fax : +1 (604) 646-9032
tech_mailbox : gwenda@raincoast.bc.ca
tech_name : Gwenda Ellwood
tech_phone : +1 (604) 737-8674
tech_postal : GWENDA ELLWOOD ,TECHNICAL MANAGER,ELLWOOD & ASSOC,21 VANCOUVER ,V6S1H1 BC CAN
tech_title : Technical Manager

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:05:19 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Salam
Message:
Salam, go to http://www.whois.net/ . Whois can't do .ca sites though.

Here's ellwood:

WHOIS information for ellwoodassoc.com:

Registrar:
EASYSPACE LTD

Organization:
Mr Clinton Hussey
address: 3555 West 21 Avenue

Vancouver, BC V6S1H1 CA

Admin contact:
'Mr Clinton Hussey'
email: clinton@raincoast.bc.ca
phone: 604 7378674
fax: 604 6469032

Tech contact:
'Mr Clinton Hussey'
email: clinton@raincoast.bc.ca
phone: 604 7378674
fax: 604 6469032

Nameservers:
ns1.ournameserver.net
ns2.ournameserver.net

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:15:19 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Salam and all
Subject: Intrigue, espionage and the cult... and 3 brains..
Message:
I read spy novels sometimes for fun, but the only time I've ever come in contact with real-life phenomena of intrigue, espionage and various hostile maneuvers has been through my contact with MJ. There has always been this bizarre tendency for MJ configure scenarios with enemies, around himself. The whole thing about MJ bugs in the WPC, back in England was bizarro - too weird. Then when the family split up, there was multiple intrigue and hassling for rank, power and property. Not just in India. In NYC, where Bal Bhagwan Ji was getting a bit of a following, MJ dispatched the mega-spy Lemon (remember him). He stayed at my apartment which became the espionage headquarters for MJ's campaign to undermine BBJ. Lemon would sneak into BBJ's satsangs wearing a false moustache. There was all kinds of strange spy apparatus being used. He was in direct contact with MJ (in case anyone wants to say that it was all just EV/DLM or some such crock).

Now the intrigue continues, with his own former followers as the infidels who must be silenced. Quite a lot of hate and anger for a spiritual teacher. I keep thinking of the Dalai Lama, who was recently here in the Bay area giving some kind of teaching on the Buddhist Heart Sutra. I didn't experience him, but I experienced a fruit of his teaching. A friend of mine's ex-husband was there. He hasn't contacted her for 8 years, and this has been a source of great pain to her. After being with the Dalai Lama, the guy called her and left a loving message that resolved a lot for her. I just don't feel the same kind of waves of love emanating from MJ's world. It is insular and separatist. Boy, I'm pissy today!

Psychologically, this pattern of having to find competitive adversaries and struggle with them by fair means or foul is often said to be based on the early imprint of sibling rivalry. Sibling rivalry is rather a deep imprint, evolutionarily, because for most species, if your brothers and sisters beat you to the teat, you will die. It's a survival thing. MJ clearly operates at a level of survival consciousness, which comes from the most primitive, reptilian level of the brain. Of course, he has been dealing with sibling rivalry at the most literal level, but now that the actual brothers are not such an active 'threat,' it's those darned people who claim to have been abused by Jagdeo, etc. etc.

Talking of the reptilian brain, I've been musing on MJ and the three brains. The next level up, the limbic level, has to do with feelings and connectedness, among other things, and although MJ purports to be getting everyone into their 'hearts' he isn't. Once I escaped from the trance that what he is perpetrating is 'real love' and 'listening to my heart,' I gradually had the rather chilling realization that MJ was quite ruthless, narcissistic and cold, and in no way a 'heart master.' Then there is the neo-cortex, which is associated with higher thought, intellect and higher consciousness. Higher consciousness is another realm that he claims to be the master of. Nah! I say he is still mostly stuck in the reptilian survival level. Fear pervades him and his organization. Fear pervaded me when I was a follower, and for a while afterwards.

Let's liberate ourselves from any fear that we took on.

Yippee, tonight is Pigeon Fanciers' Night!

love Katie Darling

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 20:32:03 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Intrigue, espionage and the cult... and 3 brains..
Message:
This is a tour de force. Have you considered writing a mystery novel based on TheBigLie.
Actually, 'Intrigue, Espionage and the Cult' would make a tremendous title.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:42:07 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Rev Rawat as Lord of the Flies
Message:
This explains why so many of the inner ''business circle'' premies whom I met seem positively reptilian. A lot of what I saw among them also gave me the creeps because it borders on satanic.

Aleister Crowley experienced and described the bliss of following the ban marg (left hand path of egoism, narcissism and evil) and several anonymous premies posted to me here and emailed me such exhortations as, ''Immortality is immorality.''

Silly buggers as infantile as the kids in Lord of the Flies. And the cult is looking more like the Lord of the Flies day by day.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:21:27 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: How about a soap, THE CULT DAYS OF OUR LIFE
Message:
Are we having fun, yet!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:48:02 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: FV is a soap, THE CULT DAYS OF OUR LIFE
Message:
The first interactive ongoing 24/7 live cyberspace soap opera. I'm having fun. Looks like you are too.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:07:01 (GMT)
From: Warning!!!
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: The Cult-O-Meter will suck you out of tail-spin!
Message:
The Cult-O-Meter
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:38:50 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Warning!!!
Subject: The Cult-O-Meter is brilliant! NT
Message:
k
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:18:26 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Warning!!!
Subject: Hey, check this out!
Message:
The Cult-O-Meter's cute. 10 real questions with semi-funny answers and pics. But look at #8:

8. Cults often prescribe 'loyalty tests,' when 'members are asked to prove loyalty to the group by doing something that violates their personal ethics.'

How has your loyalty been tested?

A) 'Who was that girl/guy you were just talking to?'

B) 'Wouldn't you prefer options to a raise?'

C) Quebec

D) 'Do you believe that story about Yogi and secretary?'

E) Millennium

Yeah, I'd say Millenium definitely tested my loyalty.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:24:50 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Delightful Disculta :)) (nt)
Message:
zz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:06:05 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: guru's picture disappeared of Pia's site
Message:
I wonder why?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:03:59 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: The pic's back up (nt)
Message:
fffffff
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:04:03 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Did you notice the difference?
Message:
They changed the pics to links. Changed my mind. She works for the moob.

Did a search on Amazon for authors, no mention of her. Her best selling book must be written in Danish.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:27:22 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Only the semi-flatterring one Jim
Message:
.....the other blubbery ten tons of lard pic seems to have gone.

Or maybe its just my browser.

Perhaps EV or Rawat ....hey we cant have the ' fat ugly bastard ' up ....it might put off some potential aspirants. Business is business. Image rules.

Dermot

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:20:02 (GMT)
From: bazza
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: you're right sal
Message:
Still have it in my cache but its gone from the site:

http://it-aint-so.org/images/masterface.jpg

Its that dastardly EV censor again. Bet she was contacted by their lawyers and threatened with copyright action. Although if quizzed on it I guarantee she'll say she 'felt' it wasn't right to have his mugshot up there!

I wonder if michele will have pics of him on her Free Speech site?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 20:14:56 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: bazza
Subject: Don't know why
Message:
Pia's site is now prominently promoted on ELK's 'What's New' page. So, I dunno, maybe it's a hierarchy of websites thing. ELK doesn't have any pictures of him either, does it? Or does it?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:27:22 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: sent this to Pia
Message:
Dear Pia,

How about posting this.

Susan and another victim were assaulted by Jagdeo in Miami in 1977.

July 19, 2000
Dear Mr. Rawat,

My name is Susan Haupt. I am the person known as “Susan” who has made public on the ”Ex-premie Website” my experience with Jagdeo when I was a teenager.

I am writing to you now in response to claims made on your Élan Vital website in a new section called FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions). In response to the question “Has Élan Vital covered up alleged past improper behavior?” you state that “We are aware that some opposing sites make allegations in particular against one individual concerning events alleged to have happened 25 years ago. This kind of behavior, if true, is completely unacceptable to Élan Vital and we would be as appalled as anyone if this was found to be true. The only information we have comes from postings on these sites. We were able to contact two individuals who made these allegations and asked that they help shed light on what happened but as yet have received no cooperation from them. As it stands Élan Vital has still received no direct information from any of the alleged victims and to date no complaint has been filed with Élan Vital or with any authorities”.

Mr. Rawat let me assure you that twice in the past I have reported what had happened to me and what I knew about Jagdeo. First to Randy Prouty and secondly to Judy Osborne who both allegedly now claim “no recollection” of the conversations I had with them. So naturally, I feel insulted that you think I am unwilling to come forward with a complaint, nor do I have any trust that Élan Vital really wishes to seriously investigate this matter. However, I still have deep concern that Jagdeo may still be molesting children, despite his advanced age, and if reporting this matter a third time might allow you to finally stop him, I shall do so.

Although I am now 38 and happily married with three children, in 1977, I was a 15-year-old premie living in Miami. I had been very involved with the Divine Light Mission for the previous two years and had received knowledge from Mahatma Jagdeo in January 1975. I was very sincere in my commitment to “Guru Maharaj Ji” and when I sang arti I believed every word. I also lined up with the other premies to receive darshan. I believed I was a part of the greatest miracle of the perfect master incarnating on earth to bring Knowledge and peace to mankind.
I point this out now because, had I not believed these things, I might have dealt with what I knew about Jagdeo differently. How I dealt with what did happen is something I regret tremendously. To understand what happened, and how it happened, one really has to recall the common premie beliefs of that time. These were beliefs that you were obviously well aware of and promoted. I went to satsang nearly every night, meditated morning and night, and attended every festival I could. I believed you were the perfect master, superior power in person, my Lord, my satguru. I believed you to be a benevolent, kind, messiah-like figure.

So in 1977, I was 15, when Jagdeo returned to Miami, I was thrilled because, as my initiator, he was special to me. He also seemed to have a special fondness for children. At my knowledge selection and session, several young girls with flowers in their hair sat at his feet. At this time in DLM, Mahatmas were treated with great respect, and certainly it was an honor for these girls to sit facing the crowd, at Mahatma Ji’s feet. Everyone knew he seemed to love children. In 1977, he invited me, then 15, and another (edited for privacy) to the Venetian pool in Coral Gables. I felt honored. An ashram premie brother drove us there (I do not remember his name). While we were in the pool, Jagdeo rubbed up against me over and over. He did this especially in the caves there. But, I did not think too much about it, I thought it was accidental.

When we returned to the ashram (edited for privacy) and I were alone with him for the first time. He began singing songs and shouting “Bhole Shri Satguru Dev Maharaj Ki Jai” a lot. We would sing and cheer with him. After each song or cheer he would hug us. At first it just seemed like we were expressing joy over being premies and the fact that Guru Maharaj Ji, the living perfect master, was here and we were his devotees. But, these hugs evolved into something else. Each time he would hug us, his hands would end up on our breasts or buttocks. I would try to wiggle out of these hugs without being obviously disrespectful to him. I could not believe it was happening. I questioned my own judgment. I thought maybe in India people did not know not to touch these areas, I thought maybe Mahatma Ji was so “pure” that he did not know. But he was trembling each time he touched us. (edited for privacy here too, but this section of the letter makes it clear that I knew of worse incidents of abuse than what happened to me) also told me that the other girls at my knowledge session had experienced some level of molestation from him, as they refused to go near him and called him “nasty”.
I was very upset about this and I knew that it had to end. I was certain as to the correct way to end it as well. I had to let Guru Maharaj Ji know. I did not even consider telling my mom, a non-premie, or the police. Not only did I not want to embarrass Guru Maharaj Ji by telling, I also genuinely felt that telling you about this situation was the ultimate way to find justice. I loved and trusted you completely, but you were not terribly accessible to the average premie.

I knew Randy Prouty fairly well from his days as a community coordinator in Miami in 1975. I thought highly of him and he had personal access to you. I felt that telling Randy would be the best way to let you know. So, when Randy came to Miami in 1977, I told him what had happened (edited for privacy here but I did make it clear to Randy that there was worse abuse and more victims than just myself). Randy said “You did the right thing to tell me,” and that he would tell you. I trusted Randy, and Guru Maharaj Ji. I felt I had done the right thing. I was very aware that if Jagdeo did this over the span of two years to several children in Miami, that it was likely he did this wherever he went to many children. But I also felt that, in telling Randy, I was giving you the information you needed to stop him.

Later, I saw that Jagdeo seemed to be still traveling as an initiator. I even saw him in the entrance to a darshan tunnel. It was very disturbing to see a child molester as one of the people greeting people as they came in. I hoped that maybe you had a guard on him. Now, a few years later, when I thought about what I had seen, Jagdeo in the darshan line tunnel, Jagdeo at festivals, the idea that he had a 24-hour guard seemed ludicrous. I wondered if perhaps Randy had never told you as he said he had. Perhaps, he had downplayed the seriousness of it. One day I was watching a talk show and the topic was child sexual abuse and pedophiles. It was emphasized that these people never get better. Of course, I thought about Jagdeo.

At that point, I decided to tell my story again. I knew of Judy Osborne through some premie friends. I was very involved in natural childbirth education and knew Judy was Marolyn’s midwife. I thought perhaps a woman, and a midwife, would understand how serious this was. I do not remember if I called her or wrote her, but somehow I got a message through to her to call me. She did, and I told her the story. I want to emphasize that I did not tell her I had ever told Randy, or anyone, about Jagdeo before. I did this because I wanted the issue presented to you again. I thought maybe with all the publicity about pedophiles, the seriousness of this situation would be recognized. Judy was very respectful and caring. I felt she did understand that this was important. She called me back about a week later and said that she told you, and that you had heard about this before, and was glad it was “not a new incident.“

How did I feel? One thing I felt was guilt for not trusting Randy. Obviously, Randy had indeed relayed my story to you. I said to Judy, “Yes, I had told Randy years ago when it had happened, but I thought he must not have told you as nothing was done that I could tell.” Judy seemed a little annoyed that I had not told her about telling Randy. She said, “Randy is a good guy, of course he would have told Maharaj Ji”. I felt it was out of my hands. I do not know if I considered telling the police at that time. By now, I had two small children, no means of supporting myself, and a husband who worked at DECA. I also still could not imagine why you would not do something about Jagdeo, if only to protect yourself. Frankly, I still do not understand that.

Over a decade later, I was remarried and living happily in California. I had not thought much about you or premies for many years. But, when I got online and discovered the wonders of a search engine, I thought, “hmm….whatever happened to the Guru….” and I found “Ex premie org.” When I relayed what had happened regarding Jagdeo, I was quickly put in touch with another victim, Abi. Abi lived in England when she was molested by Jagdeo much worse than I was. My worst fears about him were true; it was one thing to suspect he molested children all over the globe, now I knew it. This was very upsetting to me.

Given this background, I’m sure you will understand why I feel insulted by the statement on your website that you have contacted the two victims who refuse to speak to you. To make matters worse, Glen Whitaker’s insulting letter denies that I ever reported this before when indeed I have reported it twice.

So why on earth am I writing to you now? Frankly, I have grave doubts that this letter will effect any change whatsoever. But, I do care, very much, that wherever Jagdeo is, children are in danger. I do want to do what is right and I do not trust your organization at all. Frankly, I do not trust you either. I have many bitter feelings; both about how the issue of Jagdeo was handled and about the years I spent worshipping you. Mr. Dettmers, whom I have found to be a very honorable man, states that how the matter of Jagdeo was handled was uncharacteristic of your response to other similar events of sexual misconduct among the Mahatmas. Even as a rank and file 'premie” I had heard stories which support this statement. If there is some possibility that my reporting this again will this time lead to a response which can allow me some closure on this issue, I would welcome that.
I would appreciate it if you would kindly acknowledge that you have received and read this letter. Because I have continued wariness and mistrust of your organization, I am hesitant to invite you or your representatives to call or write me directly. If you would contact Mr. Dettmers with your response I would be more comfortable with that. If you have, however, any questions about this matter, which I can answer, I certainly would consider making myself available to answer them. It would be very necessary though, if this were to occur, that I protect myself from further instances of an inability on your organization’s part to remember what I have reported.

Sincerely,

Susan Haupt

July 25, 2000
Dear Maharaji,

I am writing to you because I believe you would want to be informed about the situation that is explained fully in the attached letter from Susan Haupt. She was prompted to write to you following a recent statement on Élan Vital’s website under the heading “FAQ.”

Specifically, she is writing to you about Élan Vital’s response to the question, “Has Élan Vital covered up alleged past improper behavior?” She, quite correctly in my opinion, takes issue with Élan Vital’s answer to that rhetorical question and wishes to make one final effort to set the record straight about a very serious allegation she has made repeatedly in the past about improper behavior by Jagdeo. She is qualified to do so because she was, at the time, a teenage victim of his sexual abuse.

Maharaji, I did not know Susan at the time the incident occurred, but I have since come to know her as a sincere person of integrity. I am confident that she is telling the truth. Her only motive in bringing this situation to your attention is to provide you with the information necessary for you to look into her allegation and take appropriate action.

I have assured Susan that it was my personal experience that, whenever Maharaji became aware of improper sexual behavior by any of his instructors, he took immediate disciplinary action. Thus, I am at a loss to explain why her previous efforts to bring this situation to your attention seem to have failed. My perplexity is compounded by Élan Vital’s official response to this matter.

Nevertheless, as Élan Vital has chosen to make this matter an issue, I feel no compunction about bringing this matter to your personal attention. I am confident that you will do what is necessary to ensure that it is properly addressed.

Sincerely,

Michael Dettmers

August 2, 2000

Dear Mr. Dettmers:

Your letter to Maharaji dated July 25, 2000 and the letter you enclosed from Susan Haupt were forwarded to the Board of Directors of Élan Vital.

I am a member of the Board of Directors of Élan Vital and I am also working with Élan Vital in the human resources area. I have been asked by Élan Vital’s Board to review the issues raised in Susan’s letter.

I will be contacting you next week to discuss this matter with you further.

Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Marcia Leitner

When Michael spoke to Ms. Leitner she was professional and friendly. But, some of what she had to say was very disturbing to me, though I expected it. She stated that Randy Prouty and Judy Osborne “did not recall” the conversations I relayed in my letter. She stated that Rawat “had not heard” of my reports. She added that my letter was the first official complaint EV had received by one of Jagdeo’s alleged victims. They had heard of the allegations during the past year “from two other sources, but not from the alleged victims themselves”, hence, their official response on their website.

She wanted Michael to assure me that Maharaji and Élan Vital do not condone the behavior I reported. She made it clear that Jagdeo is no longer serving in any capacity within Élan Vital throughout the world, that he in now in his late 70’s, in poor health, and living in a village in Bihar, India.

Finally, she wanted to know if I would like to speak with her and if so, would Michael arrange it.

I considered meeting with Marcia, but ultimately I decided against this. I did not think I would gain anything by meeting with her, or any EV person, other than some satisfaction when they realized how credible what I am saying is. I did however, say that I would meet with them to answer any questions, if they have any, but this meeting would have to take place with a witness, for the obvious reason that no one can now recall the times I have reported what I knew about Jagdeo in the past.

August 31, 2000
Dear Susan,

Your letter to Maharaji of July 9, 2000 was forwarded to the Board of Directors of Élan Vital for response. Thank you for bringing this matter concerning Jagdeo to our attention. The type of behavior described in your letter is completely unacceptable to Élan Vital and will not be tolerated.

I understand that Michael Dettmers has passed on to you the fact that Jagdeo is no longer associated in any capacity with Élan Vital organizations worldwide. He has not performed any duties as an instructor in the United States since the 1980’s. He is now retired and living in a village in India.
Thank you again for bringing this matter to our attention. If I can be of further assistance to you, please feel free to contact me.

Sincerely,

Marcia Leitner
Élan Vital Board of Directors

As some of you have already noted, Élan Vital has since removed the offensive FAQ from their website.


Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 15:12:38 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: jtucker@dircon.co.uk
To: Susan
Subject: Hope it's OK
Message:
I've placed your letter to Rawat (together with MD's covering letter and your comments) at
http://www.jtucker.dircon.co.uk/HaveYouHeard.html
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:11:13 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Say It Ain't So!
Message:
Wow Susan.
I'm very sorry you had to experience what you did, from Jagdeo, Randy, Judy, MarciaMarciaMarcia, and the BIGHEAD. I, through the marvels of search engines also came by this sight wondering whatever happened to Maharaji...anyways...kind of thing. Fuckin scary, isn't it!

You're right, Michael Dettmers is a gentleman. Relating this story proves how MD could and did influence EV, even the BIGHEADCHEESE himself and therefore giving incalcuable credibility to his posted statements.

Heck you think a little pot smoking, or cognac prashad crashed my belief systems. No! I knew that! I heard he wasn't throwing tofuBurgers on the BAR-B. It's getting the WHOLE story thats messing with my psyche right now. It's invalidating my reality of my, my past and now I see how it affected me even after I left (although subconsciously) and I'm doing whatever I can to sort this shit out so I can be a WHOLE person rather than a person with a HOLE. We're Human and Humans are rational people. Every little story was turned into some twisted little Darshan priviledge or ... whatever...We rearranged what we heard or didn't hear to fit in with the Cult BS (Belief Systems and BUllShit--interesting they share the same ancronym)

You handled the situation beautifully. Thank you so much for piecing this together for me.

Peace, Deborah

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:03:54 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: What ain't so?
Message:
Hi Susan,

My old friend Pia's site yells, 'It ain't so,' but never says specifically what ain't so.

It talks about 'lies', but doesn't actually say what any of the lies are.

I wrote to Pia and asked her to be more specific, and say exactly what the 'lies' on EPO are.

It's not good enough just to yell, 'Lies, lies, lies,' without producing any evidence.

Hope all is well with you and yours,

take care

Anth who's really an illusion, trapped in the bondage of Maya, drowning in the ocean deep (Jai Dev')

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:41:19 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Awesome Susan....
Message:
but Ev and Rawat being what they are I doubt if anything will come of it. I HOPE I'm wrong.

I'm not totally at the screen right now (doing this and that) but I read all your post but I'll read it again in a little while and really take it it all in.

I think those numbskull 'blissed out' ( hah !) premies care NOTHING about anything except protecting Rawat from bad publicity. That's all. And Rawat himself? Words are beyond me...to think I used to be a premie...arrrrghhh.

Best wishes Susan

Dermot

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:18:57 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Rather unflattery pic
Message:
I know he's no great beauty but that was a really funky picture of the Lard.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:56:17 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Haven't seen mugshot in years--Looking BAD ;o|
Message:
Yuck, I didn't know what hit me when I saw the flic. He looks angry, mean, and smuuug.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:23:21 (GMT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: he is dark, really, no real 'light' there
Message:
Real beauty comes from inside and the guy is uuuuuglyyyyyyyy

Hi gerry! :)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:51:35 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: silvia
Subject: This is a better picture
Message:
Who is Guru Maharaji
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 01:19:42 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: This is a better picture. Try Again
Message:
XXX
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:02:49 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: your pics never available to view Salam (nt)
Message:
zz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:47:46 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Cute pic, Salam, but if you post a link to
Message:
a geocities page that page has to be html or the pic will not appear unless you copy and paste the url. They block hotlinks to non-html graphics. So embed the pic in html first.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:12:27 (GMT)
From: let's all write Pia!
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Who ever can do the best premie imitation will get
Message:
published. It will be a crack up....

Here is mine...I am clearly an imposter...but I know that Elan Vital and Pauline Premie will be posting on Pia's site soon!

I am so grateful that you have made this site available for those who want to speak from their hearts. I have long felt that people who call themselves ex's never really understood Maharaji's message anyway. Maharaji is an enigma, and can only be understood with the heart, not the mind. The ex's are not listening to their hearts, like we are.

Great masters throughout history have always been persecuted. Rev Moon is persecuted, and Jim Jones, and the Krishnas too. But our master is the real master, I know this because i feel it in my heart.
I know that ex moonies and ex krishnas have their own ex websites, but our ex's are the only ones who have left a true master, not a fake master.

Sometimes, like in Amaroo, the past really happened and our master was into it, because I liked Darshan and arti in amaroo. But I didn't really mean the words, or at least I tell people I didn't really mean it...

I sort of depends upon who is asking, what my heart says. If like, a person without knowledge asks...I say arti in amaroo was just fun, and I don't take the words literally.

But, lets say if Maharaji asked me. Of course he is my superior power in person, my all to my, my mother my father. Satguru's boat is the holy name. I bow down before such a wonderful lord. Our lord is the maker of all things created. I believe that when my heart says to....

Anyways the critics are making people misunderstand what a beautiful experience our Lord offers. We do need to respond. We need to respond to the accusations about Jagdeo, and our lord hitting the guy on a bike ( oh I would have loved the opportunity to take the rap for him, what an opportunity to show my gratityure. ) we need to respond about monica lewis ( what an opportunity she has!) we need to respond about the pot smoking parties at the res ( doess't dettmers have any gratitude! )

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 01:05:50 (GMT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: let's all write Pia!
Subject: YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS lets do it.. nt
Message:
ne
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:44:17 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: let's all write Pia!
Subject: Okay, here's my entry.
Message:
Oh Maharaji, I hope, I mean I knoooooww you are reading these postings and I am so happy to be able to express my gratitude to you for allowing me to receive this precious precious precious gift.

I have been a premie for over 20 years now and have attended many festivals, and lots of service from my heart. Although I know I'm supposed to looking for that beautiful knowledge on the inside, I have to confess, I reeeaaaly love seeing you in person, even if you are to my 'external' eyes only (as the unfortunate strayed sheep) say 'a speck on the stage'.

Maharaji, I'm confused. Why are they making up stories like that. Do you know I cry for hours sometimes, what's worse, I (and it hurts me to say this right now, but I knoooow some of those people, what's confusing to me, is I liiiike some them). We used to share beautiful satsang, and we had fun. They loved you Maharaji, they did. And in my heart I knoooowwww they still do.

p.s. I know we were silly (in retrospect) about our Concepts of you but some of us just realize that We are Growing UP. I'm proud to call you my teacher.

Rock On Maharaji :)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:25:50 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Okay, here's mine
Message:
Dear premies, we know our lord, sorry, teacher, is not a weak and greedy man. We know he's compassionate, wise and just too dignified to join in the slanging match with those awful ex-premie sites. And what did the French ever do for the world, anyway? I'm sure our master won't miss the crazy gallic mentality, it's their loss, not his.

We must keep on, ignoring the stories of drinking, affairs, drug-taking, smuggling, manslaughter and general avoidance of responsiblility and accountability that are gathering momentum. We must keep the donations flowing towards the golden round form of our leader, and keep the faith that one day he will get somewhere, after all 30 years isn't long when you're forging a mission to bring peace to the hearts of men. It can't be easy for him, having to make all those decisions about what to do about spreading knowledge, how to separate himself from the claims to be greater than god he made in a moment of adolescent exuberance. He has to keep aspirants coming, by making more videos...he works so hard editing them, writing the music, penning the poems...It's a good thing his children are there to help him (Premlata does what she can when she's not at the rehab clinic.)

I mean, flippin' hell, he does practically EVERYTHING, and what do we do for him? Just buy him another jet, a yacht, a mansion...If only there were more we could do, but Elan Vital won't even let us put up sites to say how much we love him!! That's how humble he is, so understanding.I think they just want us to concentrate on what we do best - earn money to send him so he can carry on leading us, along the winding path that is - devotion to the living master, not asking why (or where), just trusting him in the face of the evil lies that are collecting around him like flies round a dung-heap...

Bholay shri satgurudev mahar...sorry, what was that? EV on the phone for me? Oh, I'd better go, they must have heard I'm writing this letter - amazing what they can do with surveillance techniques these days.

A Devotee.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 01:13:38 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: Good one Cjani :) (nt)
Message:
zz
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:49:36 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: And mine
Message:
Pia,

What exactly do you want? You say it's time to 'take a stand' but how? If you've got information to refute the various allegations made by ex's, let's hear it. You say, in your 'first editorial':

'This site exists not to debate with critics, but to respond to questions that have arisen from those who have encountered misinformation and misconception about a man known in his public life as Maharaji.'

Michael Dettmers reports that Maharaji used to try to get him to set up clandestine 'dates' with premie girls, all behind Marolyn's back. True or false?

Dettmers also reports that Maharaji killed a bicyclist in India while driving to the airport and got someone else to say he did it. True or false?

Many people say that Maharaji's had an affair for years now with Monica Lewis. True or false?

Take a stand, Pia. I'm all ears.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:41:33 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: Isn't this what you REALLY mean, Jane?
Message:
Dear pecks, we know our lord, sorry, teacher, is not a jerking weak and greedy man. We know he's compassionate, wise and just too jerked to join in the shafting licking match with those awful ex-premie spews. And what did the sucking French ever do for the entering world, anyway? I'm sure our master won't ballbusts the motherfucking crazy gallic mentality, it's their blows, not his.
We must keep on, screwing the wanking fingerfucks of cuntlicking, fingers, drug-asslicking, titty fucking, manslaughter and general avoidance of responsiblility and accountability that are dripping momentum. We must keep the spanking felchs blowing fists the deep throating golden round form of our leader, and keep the deep throating faith that one day he will get somewhere, after all 30 wanks isn't long when you're cocksucking a wad pulling mission to bring peace to the smacking deep throats of men. It can't be easy for him, gangbanging to make all those raunchs about what to do about jerking knowledge, how to separate himself from the dripping cuntlicks to be greater than god he made in a squirting moment of adolescent exuberance. He has to keep shafts fistfucking, by cuntlapping more cuntlapps...he cocksucks so hard sex fighting them, motherfucking the browning music, squirting the banging shafts...It's a sex fighting good thing his children are there to help him (Premlata fucks what she can when she's not at the fucking rehab clinic.)

I mean, flippin' hell, he titty fucks practically EVERYTHING, and what do we do for him? Just buy him another jet, a titty fucking yacht, a sucking mansion...If only there were more we could do, but Elan 'Pimp Mastah' Vital won't even let us put up shafts to say how much we love him!! That's how humble he is, so cuntlicking.I think they just want us to concentrate on what we do best - earn money to send him so he can carry on plowing us, along the banging sex fighting path that is - devotion to the entering asslicking master, not cuntlicking why (or where), just wanking him in the thrusting face of the banging evil pecks that are assfucking around him like assfucks round a fingerfucking dung-heap...

Bholay shri satgurudev mahar...sorry, what was that? EV on the muff sniffing phone for me? Oh, I'd better go, they must have heard I'm fucking felchs letter - spewing what they can do with surveillance fingers these raunchs.

A unclefucking Devotee.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:46:31 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks Jim the pornolizer's better than wanking
Message:
I've got tears streaming down my face and my mudpack is running.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:18:02 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: BACKLASH!
Message:
First, thank you, FA for removing that disgusting post.

Jean-Michel is now a main target of EV because he has been brave enough to go public. Backlash like this, threats, and even criminal activity are common responses by cults whenever the credibility of their brand of cult and cult leader has been publicly exposed.

Whether the post was made by EV or an off-the-wall premie, we should expect more of the same. This particular post has smoke coming out of my ears! Defamation of character in this manner is very, very cruel.

Jean-Michel, much love to you, and you have my complete support and admiration.

Love,
Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:21:58 (GMT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: BACKLASH!/ Agree
Message:
J-M will not be singled out here. In a back-handed way this is a compliment to him. He has been singled out by EV/Rawat as Cult Enemy # 1
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:22:19 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Mr. Mind
Subject: BACKLASH!=i missed it.suggestion: whenever
Message:
something like this gets posted here, could someone repost it on AG for those of us who don't get to see it here when it gets deleted? maybe the FA themselves can do so, b4 they delete it from here-- so that we who dont see it here can at least have a common reference point to understand the rest of the discussion that ensues?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:03:15 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Sorry, Janet
Message:
This particular accusation did not just break Forum 5 rules, but probably libel laws in most countries, so publishing it on AG would not be an appropriate action.

Forum Admin

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 15:20:32 (GMT)
From: Ricardo M.
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: [post edited by FA]
Message:
[Post edited by FA.

Ricardo M. - due to the potentially libellous nature of your post, I have removed its contents. If you wish to repost it you will have to provide your full name and a number where J-M's lawyers may contact you. If you repost without these details I will immediately contact your Internet Service Provider and file a complaint.

Forum Administrator]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 15:31:12 (GMT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: Ricardo M.
Subject: you know, this sounds like EV France speaking...nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:21:06 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: creativejani
Subject: Actually it sounds like Bjorn
Message:
I personally had to delete a post he 'faked' from Michael Dettmers (although it was pretty easy to tell the differences in their styles!), so I know he's capable of it.

Bjorn, if it is you - you're not doing Maharaji any favors by tricks like this.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:27:38 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: We have no evidence it is Bjorn
Message:
The poster's ISP is in New Jersey.

This matter has been passed on to our attorney now so we are unable to comment further.

FA

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:29:33 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: SHP lives in new jersey...nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:46:24 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: ...and janet lives 20 miles south of the Urug
Message:
Come on, janet, sweetie dahling. Haven't you been following Sandy's evolution? But, even if he had not changed recently, he is not a conniving man. If anything he is an open book and trying to be a good person too.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:55:06 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Shouldn't that be 'Rugu'? (nt)
Message:
ffffff
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:19:40 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Ragu, Thick n Chunky. But you don't like puns NT
Message:
h
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:45:38 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Please, no more speculation
Message:
or wild accusations.

We have enough information for the ISP to provide his/her identity and it is now up to JM and his attorney to decide how to proceed from here.

FA

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:42:45 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Sandy would never do that...
Message:
Come on Janet, sheesh.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 19:19:51 (GMT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: No Janet, My ol' buddy wouldn't do that
Message:
I would bet just as much on that as I would on fat boy being a fraud
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:03:45 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Isn't it ironic?
Message:
The main thrust of this whole site is libelous, and yet you jump at any post which could be 'potentially libelous' to any member of your little 'in-group'.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 09:28:28 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Mili
Subject: Your post is itself libellous, Mili
Message:
..to the people running this site. Accusing ex-premie org of spreading lies, or your implying that is the whole purpose of the website is a serious allegation. How far would you be prepared to take this? What's your evidence?

Time to you to put up or shut up - or for the admins to report or ban you. Brian and Katie don't need this shit, especially since they make a point of NEVER knowingly posting anything factually innacurate.

Interesting point: the only issue EV's lawyers found for taking action re. any ex website has been that of Drekkie using allegedly copyrighted images. No mention of libel anywhere. That one is a non-starter and you know it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 22:10:02 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Isn't it ironic you are here to read this? MILLY
Message:
We can prove Maharaji is Who we say he is and you fuckin simpleton don't you understand what is being said. I am going to make a few phone calls. I'm pissed. And I saw your ugly fuckin mugshot
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 18:31:24 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: 'tain't libel if its all true............nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:39:51 (GMT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: You are a sick, sick person Mili
Message:
parrot, saying nothing...

Is tht love what you are feeling? Quit trying to make your oppressor guru a good person/being because he ain't!

You, smelly feet kisser. yuck! Idol worshiper, unholy person, unclean entity, ignorant being, jumping into false conclussion person, knowing all-doesn't know anything person.

Scram Mili, go away, go take some food, it looked by your picture you need some meat in your body. You seem you are about to fly away! Get real, like we did, then you can talk with us. JUMP! The real TRUTH, the REAL light is muuuuuuuuuchhh better. How do I know? I;m shinning of happening and truth,so much love
in my heart that my friends think I'm in something, but is REAL!! You? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 23:42:56 (GMT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: who changed my post?? FA?
Message:
That is not what I wrote, I mean, the ending paragraph.

thannks

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:11:52 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: silvia
Subject: Not edited by FA nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 14:11:39 (GMT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Strange things are happening in my PC
Message:
sometimes it goes blank (black) for a second...bad signs??

Thanks, whoever you're, THANKS!!!! GOD bless your heart!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:16:59 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Aren't you moronic?
Message:
Libelous as in untrue, Mili?

Listen, why don't you do us a favour. Why not spell out all the allegations against Maharaji here that aren't true and tell us, where relevant, what the real story is? For example, start with his personal life. Is it true that he used to ask Dettmers to pick up premie chicks for him? True or untrue? How about the car accident? True or untrue that he got some premie to take the rap for him?

You're a dunce, Mili. You keep jumping into the ring pretending like you're going to fight but you can't throw a single punch. You're a clown.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 08:03:25 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Aren't you moronic?
Message:
I saw your picture on the web sometime ago. (gosh, I think I still have it saved on my hard drive somewhere!)

'Bozo' is the word that best describes you.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:37:46 (GMT)
From: ~silvia~ the forum angel
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Speaking about YOURSELF again Mili?
Message:
I said yes! You still don't know it, that's all...Join us. Being human is more than calling HIM divine, trust me. Is complete TRUTH!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:45:02 (GMT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Good luck, so far it seems nobody is there
Message:
For how long is Mili going to sleep?

He cannot make a list... A list of what? Premies know what is going on but refuse to let go of the illusion... goober got all backwards and 'they' looove it. He convinced premies his is the best, he is holding 'the best of what'. That will be a surprise/ the best of the worst.

Aren't you gonna do something about your name being used by pia THAT way?

To make a list a person needs a more o less working brain; Milli's took a vacation or forgot where he left it.

Do you think maybe goober hires disruptors that are not premies? Mili is something else,tick crust?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:16:36 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Read the site, Mili
Message:
And find me the 'libelous' parts. I'm really tired of hearing this from you without any examples.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:16:00 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Mili, truth is a defence against libel nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:29:11 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Thanks, FA
Message:
You can delete my post if you want - don't want to implicate anyone falsely!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:35:54 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: You could be right, Katie
Message:
I recall Bjorn saying he travels a lot in his business and comes to the States frequently. That's when he was threatening me with a law suit.

I'm pretty sure he mentioned New Jersey also, so I think your guess could be correct. It has all the hallmarks of that creep.

Is Brian feeling better?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:43:24 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: You could be right, Katie
Message:
Hi Gerry -
I have the same memory re the New Jersey connection - but that doesn't prove anything. We'll see!

Brian's OK - recovering but really uncomfortable and generally miserable. Blind in one eye for a couple of weeks at least. We see the surgeon again on Monday - guess we'll see about that then too. It has NOT been fun for him at all - pretty gruesome, as a matter of fact.

Thanks for asking - hope Patty is better too. (I hate crutches!)

Love,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:52:32 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: gkl1@techline.com
To: Katie H
Subject: Katie I didn't hear this
Message:
I'm so sorry to hear this about Brian.

I don't know any of the details, but please pass on my best wishes for a speedy recovery to Brian.

Patty's actually doing pretty well, using one crutch now and she's 'blissed out' with that development.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:57:23 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Thanks, Gerry (ot)
Message:
He had a detached retina - sort of a complication of having cataract surgery on both eyes earlier this year. Happened when we were in the Pacific Northwest.

BTW, we drove right by the exit to your town on I-5 - would have stopped in except we were in a hurry to get to Oregon.

Glad Patty is better! She certainly has a good attitude if she can be happy about using only ONE crutch (I never got the hang of mine!).

Love,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:08:02 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: My best to Brian, That sounds painful! n/t
Message:
m
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:18:21 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Thanks, Cynthia - and if everyone could...
Message:
...not make complaints about the site or the forum software for a few weeks, it would help :)! (I know you don't do this!)

Love,
Katie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 21:43:21 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Katie H
Message:
Send my regards to Brian.

Anything troubling the eyes, ears or throat is the pits as far as I'm concerned.

A few years ago I used to get similar symptons to glandular fever...throat closed so couldnt speak, intense sweating and delerium.....luckily it came and went away for good. Touch wood.

Apart from that never really been ill or had an accident.

Not sure exactly.. what is the matter with Brian?

Anyway

Sympathies extended

Ciao

Dermot

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:04:32 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Hey Dermot
Message:
I'll give Brian your regards. He had surgery for a detached retina - I won't go into detail, but you can imagine (or maybe you don't want to!) He's doing a bit better today, which is good - it's been a rough week.

Thanks -
Katie H.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 17:25:02 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Katie, the complaints actually irritate me:)) n/t
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:34:04 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: Please check your email nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 16:39:31 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Please check yours! nt
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index