Tim Matheson -:- My submission to Pia's site -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 09:47:15 (GMT)

__ Silvia -:- MEL, read Tim's post!!!! NT -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:32:18 (GMT)

__ Tim Matheson -:- Now you hate-filled ex-premies.. -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 10:06:06 (GMT)

__ __ toby -:- Tim I know how to get you -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:40:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ Mr. Mind -:- Toby, Toby -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:04:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ ~silvia~ the forum 'angel -:- I have HIS bragon, when he was a kid -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 14:39:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ TYPO again -:- meant to say POSTER. nt -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 15:12:40 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- Brilliant Tim. -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:24:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ silvia -:- You guys know it wont be accepted -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:34:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ Tim Matheson -:- What are you talking about? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:30:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Sorry Tim. -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:38:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Anth, you remembered all of the Ki Jai's! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:54:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Wasn't Pwastic May a premie. -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:25:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Yes, it was Pwastic May, the nazi housemother. -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:30:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ silvia -:- did you cacccca? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:47:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Tim Matheson -:- We don't appreciate your sarcasm -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:45:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Simon Satsang -:- Yeah, AJW -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:11:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- LOL Simon. -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:53:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ kev -:- Just be quiet, and do the test and.... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:36:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ `Silvia~ -:- Yes!!! I surrendered too!!!! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:52:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ kev -:- I'm sooooo special toooo -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:26:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tim Matheson -:- Hi Silvia -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:57:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ silvia -:- LOL -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:03:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- samadhi -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:16:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- Thanks for the enlightment -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:28:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tim Matheson -:- 'I could just SCREAM'/ Help PwKs -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:17:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- I'm trying to remember my oath - help me out! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:59:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ~silvia~ the forum angel -:- THAT hard drive, eh? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 14:42:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ~silvia~ the forum 'angel -:- My last post for you 'PREMIE' I have to work -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:24:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tim M -:- Leave Silvia alone -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:07:32 (GMT)

Joy -:- Hey Latvian Baby Throwing Pigeon Fanciers!! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:35:04 (GMT)

__ Andy in SF -:- Hey Latvian Baby Throwing Pigeon Fanciers!! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:05:06 (GMT)

__ Chuck Sprague -:- Hey Latvian Baby Throwing Pigeon Fanciers!! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:08:21 (GMT)

__ Richard -:- Are SF Ex-er's Haight filled? Har de har har nt -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:49:26 (GMT)

__ Wildflower -:- Thank you SF Lavtvians! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:16:37 (GMT)

__ __ PatC -:- Wildflower, what a treat to see you after 13 years -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:58:53 (GMT)

__ janet -:- wish i coulda made it. cheers in spirit ev 1 -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 08:53:32 (GMT)

__ The Latvians S.F. Chap. -:- Hello Houston? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:31:18 (GMT)

__ __ Kelly -:- Good morning Latvians -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:12:56 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Any fights yet? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:05:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ janet -:- not unless you show up....... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 08:49:06 (GMT)

__ __ Bazza -:- Whasssssuuuppppppp!!!! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:43:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ Marianne -:- Whasssssuuuppppppp!!!! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:47:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Bazza -:- Hi marianne -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:51:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- My heart is full -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:28:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You what??? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:31:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ ~silvia~ -:- My heart is full TOO -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:12:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- A funny moment... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:31:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ silvia -:- ROFL nt -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:15:17 (GMT)

__ __ Richard -:- NW Chapter checking in -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:33:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ Richard -:- So what am I, chopped tofu? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:00:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ The SF folks -:- So what am I, chopped tofu? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:05:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- In that case....... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:09:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- hahahahaha LOL aughhhhhhh -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:31:24 (GMT)

__ suchab...... -:- Yeah. Enquiring 'minds' wanna know!! haha (nt -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:03:53 (GMT)

__ __ PatC -:- We had fab satsang but we forgot to sing arti -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 09:25:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ Katie H -:- Glad you decided to go, Pat -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:07:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ Wildflower -:- You hit the nail right on the head! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:03:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Flor de Lotus -:- Nicely said nt -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:55:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ Disculta -:- The morning after -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:50:20 (GMT)

Silvia -:- DONT DOUBT THE PURITY OF THE MASTER -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:54:50 (GMT)

__ Bob -:- The nice thing about... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:04:29 (GMT)

__ __ janet -:- OT...( except The Lizard King; he had followers) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 08:55:21 (GMT)

__ __ silvia -:- The nice thing about... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:17:53 (GMT)

gerry -:- Goober is Back !!! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:41:00 (GMT)

__ Marianne -:- Copyright infringement? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 07:47:31 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- Drekkie was shut down for doing the same (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:20:02 (GMT)

__ __ silvia -:- taht must be a pic of the ones HE SELLS TO PREMIES -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:06:07 (GMT)

__ silvia -:- Goober is Back !!! uglier tahn ever, and tat evil -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:51:27 (GMT)

__ __ Mel Bourne -:- Goober is Back !!! uglier tahn ever, and tat evil -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:52:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ Nigel -:- Strange thinking, Mel -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:13:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ Silvia -:- I'm about to leave for few days? Where are you -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 15:26:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ Silvia -:- Shhhhh MEL - Think wider -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:18:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Mel Bourne -:- Shhhhh MEL - Think wider -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 08:48:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Silvia/SB -:- Here MEL - You may want to read this too -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:26:00 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- Goober is Back !!! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:49:35 (GMT)

__ __ G -:- The picture Rawat doesn't want you to see -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:15:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ Silvia -:- I have better pictures of my EX LORD -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:28:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ G -:- Photos, slides? The Goober picture is back up. -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:59:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ silvia -:- I have a scanner, BUT -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:25:28 (GMT)

Jim -:- Sandy's spiritual lesson on death and compassion -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:56:46 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- Hi Jim, -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:29:32 (GMT)

__ Sandy -:- Jim, have you considered a career in tabloid -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 09:58:20 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Really, Sandy? Tell me about it (yawn) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:31:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ Sandy -:- Yawning is a sign of oxygen shortage to the brain -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:56:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- You didn't answe the question, Sandy -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:04:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Sandy -:- You are a fucked up guy who is a fast talker -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:02:00 (GMT)

__ __ Silvia -:- Shhhh, we need him here -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:37:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ Sandy -:- A wild boar has guts and persistence too, Sil... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:20:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ ~Silvia~ -:- He is human sandy, not perfect -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:51:08 (GMT)

__ CW -:- Sandy - Sad, Sad, Sad Sandy...................... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:06:53 (GMT)

__ __ Salam -:- Sandy - Sad, Sad, Sad Sandy...................... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:52:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ CW -:- Sandy - Sad, Sad, Sad Sandy...................... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:53:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Yeah, and I was abducted by aliens -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:02:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Yeah, and I was abducted by aliens -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:52:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Yeah, and I was abducted by aliens -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:26:36 (GMT)

__ suchiewuchiebananarama -:- Sandy's an ex-officio-ex now! Peas and lentils(nt -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 01:26:58 (GMT)

SILVIA -:- Pia didn't accepted my post :SOOOOO equal and fair -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:09:02 (GMT)

__ clh -:- Pia didn't accepted my post :SOOOOO equal and fair -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:14:04 (GMT)

__ __ Silvia -:- so serious... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:08:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ clh -:- reply to : so serious... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:58:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Silvia -:- seriously... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:46:07 (GMT)

__ __ Michele Deradune -:- Please tell me what is bogus about free speech? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:37:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- I can answer that, Michele -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:12:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ such -:- also:maha.org requires cookies + bs conditions (nt -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:18:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ suchaban... -:- http://www.maharaji.org/notices/notice01.htm (nt -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:26:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Gary Epton -:- Well said! (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 03:14:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Jim, a question -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 14:09:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- Disculta, some answers -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 15:51:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Here's Harlan's premie site (what's left of it) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:21:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- History part 1 - Mili's orginal message to Usenet -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:49:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mr. Mind -:- This shows Mili to be out of touch w/M -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 08:02:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Notice the 'micheled@bga.com' ? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:51:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- History part 2 - Usenet's reply to Mili 1/2/98 -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:59:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Hey Katie, what about Usenet's NEXT reply..? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:16:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Here's what they said -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:53:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Welcome back, Katie! -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 03:27:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie/Katie H -:- Say WHAT, Jim? -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:48:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Never mind, just trying to be funny (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:55:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Found it... -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 07:26:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- Thanks, Nigel - here is Brian's response FYI -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 12:00:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Heheheeh I guessed Mili was a jerk :) (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:51:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- BTW, alt.cult.maharaji is sill a newsgroup! (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:27:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- Lots of stuff in the Dejanew Usenet archives -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:08:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ ~Silvia~ -:- I know why -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:56:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ DERMOT -:- Really great post Jim...spot on (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:43:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Michele Deradune -:- You make very valid points, Jim -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:55:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- I have the videos, yes -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:59:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- You make very valid points, Jim -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:58:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ to Michelle -:- SHUT UP!! I know better than you: READ this -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:25:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ clh -:- Please tell me what is bogus about free speech? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:04:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Michele Deradune -:- Thank you for the clarification -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:18:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Silvia To Michelle -:- Wrong again! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:59:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- clarification -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 07:13:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Steve Mulley -:- Thank you for your sincere efforts... -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 07:02:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ clh -:- reply to 'Thank you for the clarification' -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:50:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- reply to clh -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:35:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ Bob -:- You never read the replies to your posts!! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:50:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Michele Deradune -:- Why I have been so slow -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:31:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ ~silvia~ the forum angel -:- A question Michelle -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:55:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ ~silvia~ the forum angel -:- If you stay ON the subject is easy to asnwer -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:15:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Hang in there Michele -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:56:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ ~silvia~ the forum angel -:- NICE Richard, very nice!! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:31:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ sil -:- she is enjoying the free'talking' -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:27:54 (GMT)

__ __ Sorry -:- It was a niiiice post -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:23:13 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- Pia didn't accepted my post :SOOOOO equal and fair -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 01:34:29 (GMT)

__ __ Silvia -:- NOOOOOO -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:25:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ Salam -:- It's Ok Silvia -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:39:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Michele Deradune -:- It's Ok Silvia -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:20:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- LIAR!! nt -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:38:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ SALAM is the name -:- Mind if I call you a door knob -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:07:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ SuchaBanana -:- yeah, fatwah declared. ban plant provocateurs. -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 04:48:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ ~silvia~ the forum angel -:- Good for you Salam -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:41:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- I just realized that I have an alias as saucy -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:09:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- is called ignorance making fun of your nick -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:30:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Chelaji -:- is called ignorance making fun of your nick -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:47:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ s -:- YOUR path is nice, truthful -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:52:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Chelaji -:- YOUR path is nice, truthful -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 15:55:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ chuchi -:- YOUR path is nice, truthful OT (not) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:14:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Chelaji -:- Where does 'chuchi' come from, ~Forum~Angel~? :) -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 03:15:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ chachi sil -:- Where does 'chuchi' come from, ~Forum~Angel~? :) -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 06:24:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ suchabanana -:- No opinions in:The Wisdom of Laotse[Lin Yutang](nt -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:00:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonorji -:- No opinions in:The Wisdom of Laotse[Lin Yutang] -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:41:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cuchi -:- What??? -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 13:41:10 (GMT)

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 09:47:15 (GMT) From: Tim Matheson Email: None To: Everyone Subject: My submission to Pia's site Message:

Pia, I believe this will finally shut up our critics. Tim Self Quiz Are you 'UNDER THE INFLUENCE' of a destructive group or belief system? Self Quiz For Religious/Ideological Groups Source: John D. Goldhammer website -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Find out : 1. Does your group discourage doubts, criticism or ideas that differ from their belief system? Yes____No____ 2. Do you tend to rationalize whatever the group does even when it goes against your sense of right and wrong? Yes___ No___ 3. Do you often feel exhausted from lengthy group activities, meetings and projects? Yes___ No___ 4. Does your group have its own unique words, clichés, slogans, chants, prayers and doctrinal phrases that reinforce the group viewpoint? Yes___ No___ 5. Are doubts viewed as a lack of faith, dedication, commitment or disloyalty? Yes___ No___ 6. Have 'your thoughts' become 'the enemy?' Yes___ No___ 7. Do you often find yourself doing more and more things in the group or because of group peer pressure that you would not have done on your own? Yes___ No___ 8. Does your group publicly humiliate or criticize members? Yes___ No___ 9. Does your group have a system of punishments and rewards for behavior? Yes___ No___ 10. Group paranoia: Does your group obsessively think other groups or people with different beliefs are out to get them? Yes___ No___ 11. Does the prospect of leaving your group seem scary, difficult? Yes___ No___ 12. Do you feel the need to leave in secret? Yes___ No___ 13. Have you been told something bad might happen if you leave? Yes___ No___ 14. Does your group/belief system think they have/are the only or highest truth, or have the solution for the world's problems? Yes___ No___ 15. Are your leader's ideas or belief system considered beyond reproach or sacred? Yes___ No___ 16. Do you follow a particular individual or belief system that requires unquestioning obedience and loyalty? Yes___ No___ 17. Do members of your group feel specially chosen, superior, exclusive, elite? Yes___ No___ 18. Do you feel the need to save or convert others to your belief system or ideology? Yes___ No___ 19. Is your group secretive to outsiders about its inner workings, teachings, activities or beliefs? Yes___ No___ 20. Does your group equate purity and goodness to being in your group, and impurity or evil to those outside your group? Yes___ No___ 21. Do you place your group's mission or agenda above your own goals and ideals? Do group interests come before your own interest Yes___ No___ 22. Do you find yourself thinking in a we-they, us-versus-them mind set? Yes___ No___ 23. Does your group/system have a clear outside enemy? Yes___ No___ 24. Do you see less and less of your family and friends who do not belong to your group or who do not subscribe to your group's belief system? Yes___ No___ 25. Does your group use frequent public testimonials, confessions, or sharings that reinforce the group's mission or agenda? Yes___ No___ 26. Is communication within, into and out of your group controlled or censored in any manner? Yes___ No___ 27. Does your group criticize, shun, abandon or demean individuals who leave the group? Yes___ No___ 28. Do members seek approval or get permission from group leader(s) for personal life choices? Yes___ No___ 29. Do you feel pressured to attend meetings, events, lectures, seminars? And do you feel guilty if you don't attend? Yes___ No___ 30. Do you feel pressured to give a portion of your income to the group, or spend money on courses, books or special projects? Yes___ No___ 31. Are the group's financial needs more important than your own economic well-being? Yes___ No___ 32. Does your group discriminate against anyone regarding race, gender, belief, or sexual orientation? Yes___ No___ 33. Does your group have a totalitarian structure: a strict, top-down centralized control? Yes___ No___ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you wonder if you have been in a destructive group? Do you... ...have difficulty forming new friendships and intimate relationships? Yes___ No___ ...have low self-esteem, poor self-image or loss of identity? Yes___ No___ ...have difficulty making simple decisions and choices? Yes___ No___ ...often feel depressed, anxious and nervous? Yes___ No___ ...feel isolated, lonely, guilty, cynical? Yes___ No___ ...feel like you are just now growing up, becoming a mature adult? Yes___ No___ ...have short-term memory difficulties? Yes___ No___ ...feel you have nothing to believe in? Yes___ No___ ...often feel anger and rage towards the group? Yes___ No___ ...have nightmares or unpleasant dreams? Yes___ No___ ...find it difficult or impossible to stop mental or other group ritualistic practices? Yes___ No___ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This quiz has no scientifically predetermined number of 'yes' answers to indicate a destructive group. However, answering 'yes' to any of the above questions means you may need to examine your group and its influence in your life in those areas. Source: John D. Goldhammer website

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:32:18 (GMT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Tim Matheson Subject: MEL, read Tim's post!!!! NT Message:

h

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 10:06:06 (GMT) From: Tim Matheson Email: None To: Tim Matheson Subject: Now you hate-filled ex-premies.. Message:

..will finally be put in your place. When Pia puts this quiz on her wonderful new site, the tables will be turned and HIS TRUTH will shine as never before. This hate site will be HIStory. So There !

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:40:02 (GMT) From: toby Email: None To: Tim Matheson Subject: Tim I know how to get you Message:

If I'd promise you a handfull of old footnails of maharaji , just for you alone to chew, you'd send any premie to hell by your own hand, right? Toby

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:04:07 (GMT) From: Mr. Mind Email: None To: toby Subject: Toby, Toby Message:

You need at least 24 hours of straight discourse from M

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 14:39:00 (GMT) From: ~silvia~ the forum 'angel Email: None To: toby Subject: I have HIS bragon, when he was a kid Message:

can be sold to the best postor. I'm honest.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 15:12:40 (GMT) From: TYPO again Email: None To: ~silvia~ the forum 'angel Subject: meant to say POSTER. nt Message:

n

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:24:21 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Tim Matheson Subject: Brilliant Tim. Message:

I hope Pia has the balls to do the quiz herself. She'll get a big shock if she does. Anth the hate filled.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:34:05 (GMT) From: silvia Email: None To: AJW Subject: You guys know it wont be accepted Message:

'They' are talking to themselves, trying hard to believe the lies of their master (You DOG, maharaji).

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:30:24 (GMT) From: Tim Matheson Email: None To: AJW Subject: What are you talking about? Message:

I strongly disagree, sir. Anyone who is currently practicing this wonderful K given to us by M will see very clearly this is not a cult. I suggest you lock yourself in a room and watch HIS Discourses for 4 or 5 hours and then take the quiz

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:38:15 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Tim Matheson Subject: Sorry Tim. Message:

I didn't explain myself properly. What I meant is that Pia will be shocked by the joy of being in that place at that moment when she sees that the result of her quiz is that, although all the thousands of other gurus are merely cult leaders, fleecing their devotees, she has fortunately, and against all the odds, found the one true Master of the Age. Yeah, for the Captain's glory fills the world, for it is written so. Anth the Jai Sat Chit Ananad, Bolay Shri Satgurudev Maharaji Ki Jai, Ananda Kanda Bal Bhagwan Ki Jai, Jagat Jnani Shri Mata Ki Jai, Sat Chit Avar Ki Jai, Hansa Bansa Ki Jai, Bholya Shri Satugurdev Maharaj Ki Jai, Ki Jai, Ki Jai, Ki Jai.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:54:17 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: AJW Subject: Anth, you remembered all of the Ki Jai's! Message:

At least some of the ol' brain cells must still be working. Now can you recall what 'gwastik-may' means. (spelled phonetically - Mata Ji used to sprinkle it throughout her satsang.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:25:00 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Richard Subject: Wasn't Pwastic May a premie. Message:

She wore lots of eye makeup and had a swastika tattooed on her right thigh. I think she was a house mother in South London in the 70s. Anth, a trip down memory lane.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:30:08 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: AJW Subject: Yes, it was Pwastic May, the nazi housemother. Message:

In Denver we had Bhola Granola the housemother - so-named by my ol' dear departed pal David Davis.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:47:21 (GMT) From: silvia Email: None To: AJW Subject: did you cacccca? Message:

yeah, I agree. Cults suck the life out of people!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:45:28 (GMT) From: Tim Matheson Email: None To: AJW Subject: We don't appreciate your sarcasm Message:

and by the way..remember that oath you took many years ago ' O My Guru Maharaj Ji, I dedicate my life to you....' Well, let's be clear here Bubba, no where does it say that you can change your mind later Sorry --No Take Backs Tim

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:11:52 (GMT) From: Simon Satsang Email: None To: Tim Matheson Subject: Yeah, AJW Message:

When was the last time you cut your head off for Guru Maharaj Ji? Tim (if I may be so bold to call you that although I am not being friendly since only Guru Maharaj Ji is my friend, my lover my all to me and I just see HIM coming through you) thank you for re-igniting that devotion within inside of me. Maharaji or Guru Maharaj Ji which is his full title, is the Lord of the universe and always will be and Pia's website is proclaiming the glory of HIM who controls the whole universe including France.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:53:43 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Simon Satsang Subject: LOL Simon. Message:

Lots Of Love. (All from heem of course.) Anth, tears in his snot.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:36:45 (GMT) From: kev Email: None To: Simon Satsang Subject: Just be quiet, and do the test and.... Message:

NO CHEATING NOW.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:52:32 (GMT) From: `Silvia~ Email: None To: Tim Matheson Subject: Yes!!! I surrendered too!!!! Message:

and I'm sooooo special, all those stupid zombies like my lord calls them, walking around in the world like they know what they are doing....My lord is pure like the snow (full of acid rain) and he fills me with doubts and I do not hear them, I have the holy name to escape my hearts questions. I'm empty and ONLY HIS love can fill me, in fact, human beings are ALL morons except my pure master: His own words... I have many video tapes, manyyyyyyyyy to prove it, and I sleep like a baby at night without medication because MY love IS REAL and my conscience is clean unlike 'others'. Hi Tim! Thanks for your sharing the quiz with us.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:26:05 (GMT) From: kev Email: None To: `Silvia~ Subject: I'm sooooo special toooo Message:

Hi Silvia and Tim, I try to answer the quiz while imagining I was still a premie. I answered almost every question with a yes. Very scary stuff. I think all premies should make themselves sit down and do this test and then see if they still feel so special. Thanks for finding that Tim. Love Kev.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:57:24 (GMT) From: Tim Matheson Email: None To: `Silvia~ Subject: Hi Silvia Message:

Your dislike of Our Master is such that I think you need to lock yourself away for 8-10 hours and listen to M's discourses. He'll set you straight Beware of that vile and Satanic creature AJW

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:03:38 (GMT) From: silvia Email: None To: Tim Matheson Subject: LOL Message:

Yes, I'm evil when it comes to deffend the truth, I get vicious, I'm a Horse, I'm a capricorn, I'm strong and blunt and I hope time shapes up my rough edges, and my darling, dear, I'm gald for what I have accomplished so far. The best is yet to come? How one can feel more whole than what I feel? Nature surprises me all the time... more? Oh, my, am I going to experience samadi? I hope not: I love being human.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:16:14 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: silvia Subject: samadhi Message:

When I learned the term (many years ago now) I was taught it refers to a state of absorbtion in what one is doing. It could be driving a vehicle, or skiing, or programming - whatever. Anything that one does that is so absorbing one tends, as we say, to forget oneself. Meditation must be the hardest way to achieve samadhi. Driving extremely fast round a difficult circuit must be the easiest. Um, that and sex. It's just another word, misunderstood and misapplied by an ignorant psychopath that ended up a 'Guru' and whose name is Captain Prempal Rawat of Malibu.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:28:08 (GMT) From: Silvia Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Thanks for the enlightment Message:

Silvia, not possing to be an extra smart person because I'm not. But I can think, yeap... I may add: TRUTH It's just another word, misunderstood and misapplied by an ignorant psychopath that ended up a 'Guru' and whose name is Captain Prempal Rawat of Malibu. love 2 u ;)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:17:53 (GMT) From: Tim Matheson Email: None To: Silvia Subject: 'I could just SCREAM'/ Help PwKs Message:

This is absolutely the last time I will post my postings that will be posted on Pia's site. You guys just have a way of taking anything sacred and twisting it to your twisted way of thinking(and I use that term very loosely) Why do I bother? Sometimes I think you are just a bunch of twisted, twisted loosers...but then I remember --They'll be back!!! Remember your OATH Tim

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:59:11 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: Tim Matheson Subject: I'm trying to remember my oath - help me out! Message:

I was surfing this funny thread and I read that line from the oath 'O my Guru Maharaj Ji, I dedicate my life to you...' What WAS that? I remember it but I don't! How does the whole oath go? How many times did we say it, and when? Was it after every Arti? What else did I promise? Is this where the mysterious automatic withdrawals from my account came from? (joke - although it wasn't always a joke!). Someone, refresh me about this oath so I can erase it from my hard drive. love Katie

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 14:42:27 (GMT) From: ~silvia~ the forum angel Email: None To: Disculta Subject: THAT hard drive, eh? Message:

Did you left somewhere your E-mail address? I may want to write to you later. I'm leaving for a while. I have VERY important things to do, court ex-husband battle, and most importantly, ETC., if you know what I mean...hehehehehe silvia: my love 2 u.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:24:42 (GMT) From: ~silvia~ the forum 'angel Email: None To: Tim Matheson Subject: My last post for you 'PREMIE' I have to work Message:

We must continue rejoicing in the truth: We are the ONLY ONES who know the ' love thing secret'. Who cares about the 6-7 billons in the world. WE ARE A LARGE GROUP, AND THAt SAYS IT ALL Is 'you know who' disgusting and divissive or what? And can that be called love??? naaaaa

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:07:32 (GMT) From: Tim M Email: None To: ~silvia~ the forum 'angel Subject: Leave Silvia alone Message:

she's gone to watch M's discourses-she'll be a changed woman when she returns

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:35:04 (GMT) From: Joy Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Hey Latvian Baby Throwing Pigeon Fanciers!! Message:

How's the gathering going? Who all's there?

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:05:06 (GMT) From: Andy in SF Email: andyjgknight@hotmail.com To: Joy Subject: Hey Latvian Baby Throwing Pigeon Fanciers!! Message:

Hi everyone, This newbie is Pat C's third partner. I just had to post and tell everyone what a wonderful time I had last night, absolutely never a dull moment. Have never seen so many beautiful people in one place at one time everyone just seemed to glow. I am so glad to have joined in. Marianne, thank you for hosting, The view and the company made it a night to remember. To everyone I meet it was truely a pleasure and I hope to see you again in the not to distant future. I won't go into names because I am sure I will mix them up (quite notorious for that). Just know that of you made the night a real pleasure. Take care all. Andy in SF

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:08:21 (GMT) From: Chuck Sprague Email: bctanda@hotmail.com To: Joy Subject: Hey Latvian Baby Throwing Pigeon Fanciers!! Message:

Hi Joy! It's the morning after, and I have to say, it was truely wonderful. Any reluctance I may have had about going was completely dispersed, everyone was so kind, and hardly any mention of the Goober. I think a good time was had by all. Time went by very quickly though, I didn't get to talk to as many people as I would have liked to. I recognized a lot of faces, even though I didn't know everyone. Perhaps it would be fun to do a picnic or barbeque one day, and start it in the afternoon. It had the feeling of some of the best premie gatherings I can remember, but this felt even better, because we all could just competely be ourselves, without trying to fit ourselves into some cult-box, no imaginary friend-Goober hanging over us, it really felt special. The company of truth, indeed! It made me think that so much of the good feelings people attributed to M. really came from ourselves and our longing to be happy, and our own love. Much thanks to everyone who attended, and to Marianne for pulling it all together so gracefully.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:49:26 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: SFX's Subject: Are SF Ex-er's Haight filled? Har de har har nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:16:37 (GMT) From: Wildflower Email: None To: Joy Subject: Thank you SF Lavtvians! Message:

I had a truly wonderful time with all of you. There was lots of love and caring and consciousness, not to mention hugs. It was great to get to know those of you I had not known before as well as reconnecting with those I had known so many years before. And, Marianne, that restaurant was absolutely marvelous - great food at a very modest price - and they were so patient with all our hubub. To those of you who organized this, thanks, thanks, thanks. And to those of you who came, thanks for sharing yourselves so marvelously. Pat, we'll be coming to your restaurant one of these days, so get your red carpet ready! Love to all.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:58:53 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Wildflower Subject: Wildflower, what a treat to see you after 13 years Message:

Whenever I read the forum I see the exes as they were when I knew them - in their twenties and glowing with excitement. Many a time I have told myself that we are now all old and of course you guys don't look like that anymore. The shock last night was to see that most of you did still look like that. And that was in spite of all the pics of adorable grandchildren I was treated to. As Frannie said to Jo Ann in a thread above: let's not lose touch with other again.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 08:53:32 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Joy Subject: wish i coulda made it. cheers in spirit ev 1 Message:

maybe i astral traveled there during my nap?

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:31:18 (GMT) From: The Latvians S.F. Chap. Email: None To: Joy Subject: Hello Houston? Message:

From the secret location somewhere in San Franciso with a gorgeous view of the bay at our plush headquarters on the 38 floor of the TransAmerica building (you know, the pyramid thing) that our internationally well financed, highly organized Ex-Premie Organization pays for. The following co-conspirators are here thinking of all of the little people out there (and we are thinking, no loving and adoring our living Lord, Maharaji Wha-a-a-a-at? (Disculta) Drek wrote that first sentence, but i cannot concur! Drek says that Arti (full version) starts in 10 minutes followed by a group meditation until dawn! Now (drum roll) the list of hateful and hurt people who no longer believe: Monmot Marianne Selene Ophelia Heidi Katie and Jitendra Darling Pat C., Andy and Chuck Joe and Kevin Brian and other Francesca and Mark Mark and Billy Appleman Joanne Brian and Paula Smith Shri Maharaji (looking a little pale, but apparently breathing) the amazing thing is that there has been a 4 hour effortless conversation, weaving in and among people who really didn't know each other before tonite. The only guy going thru it a bit, tonight has been Shri Maharaji who FINALLY is understanding that he never was a perfect master ! Just a delusional power tripper ! Oh, this is loads of fun! Hope you all are doing well. Back to drawing up plans for our next offensive.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:12:56 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: The Latvians S.F. Chap. Subject: Good morning Latvians Message:

Sounds like you had a wonderful time. I hope it was as much fun as London Latvian night...Marianne? What time did you go to bed?! Love Kelly

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:05:43 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: The Latvians S.F. Chap. Subject: Any fights yet? Message:

I'm sitting at home, still a little burnt out after last night. Laurie showed some houses to clients this aft and now can't get off her couch ... oh, people over! Gotta go for now. Watch out for Drek but then, I guess, you knew that...

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 08:49:06 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Jim Subject: not unless you show up....... Message:

we know how you like a bracing debate. nawwwwwww isnt peace nice for a change?

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:43:04 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: The Latvians S.F. Chap. Subject: Whasssssuuuppppppp!!!! Message:

Hi guys, was sitting here trying to stay awake after a rockin' Soul/Jazz gig at the Arena tonight - hey how often do you get to meet Prince, The Isley Bros and comedian Sinbad all in one 3-day gig? Anyway I digress. Wishing I wuz there with y'all. (btw ask marianne if she got my email, its pretty important) Maybe now would be a good moment for a collective contribution to Pia's site? And somebody give Pat a big wet kiss for me!:) luv bazza - hanging with ya for a bit......

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:47:07 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Bazza Subject: Whasssssuuuppppppp!!!! Message:

Yes, I did. Talk tomorrow. Marianne

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:51:45 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Hi marianne Message:

Yeah I bet it won't be early though! So you all drunk or what? Hope somebodies got a video camera - we have the technology to stream it now ;)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:28:25 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: y'all out there Subject: My heart is full Message:

I'm serious! My heart is full. I just got home as Jitendra is working very early tomorrow. It was wonderful. I met a few people I didn't remember that I remembered, and many I knew as words on a screen, and I felt very close to everyone. Had great food and great conversations, and a long initiation into the delights of a three-way marriage (from Pat's partners). Looking down the long table, everyone was so alive and animated, many conversations going on at once. Love was the vibe. I've been so excited about this evening, and I was saying to Jitendra on the way home, it was as good as I had imagined. Don't know why it's so meaningful to me, but it is. Thanks Marianne and all. love Katie Darling

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:31:03 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Disculta Subject: You what??? Message:

Had great food and great conversations, and a long initiation into the delights of a three-way marriage (from Pat's partners). Initiation? LONG initiation? Tell us about it. Pics?

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:12:31 (GMT) From: ~silvia~ Email: None To: Disculta Subject: My heart is full TOO Message:

I'm glad you're having a good time. Maybe I have money for the next one. On April 2000 JM came to visit me in Michigan and we rented a car and went to Pennsylvania to visit Robyn, then to WDC to meet Helen, Scott and G, and we ended our 'tour' at Katie and Brian's place. I had a good time! JM? No. He had to put up with my then outofcontrol emotions. I had found a OLD (28 years)male friend and met him in Las Vegas before JM got here and I was toooo excited having new human feelings I had forgotten to feel. I think JM liked me too much and couldn't stand that I didn't have a chemistry for him...MO. I love him dearly though. He is a VERY, VERY nice person, except when he walked a block from me in our way to the museums at D.C. and I couldn't catch up with him: My health was bad then. LOL Have fun! love 2 u.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:31:18 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: Disculta Subject: A funny moment... Message:

At dinner, Marianne was telling us about how EV is characterizing us as a highly-organized international organization. Roger Drek said, yeah, sure, wait till we try to work out paying the restaurant bill. I thought it was hysterical. And I wasn't even drunk, just dizzy.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:15:17 (GMT) From: silvia Email: None To: Disculta Subject: ROFL nt Message:

hahahahaha

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:33:45 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: The Latvians S.F. Chap. Subject: NW Chapter checking in Message:

Hey all you hateful disinformationists. Wasssssssssssupppppppppppp????

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:00:47 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Richard Subject: So what am I, chopped tofu? Message:

Are you all too blissed out to reply or just preparing for arti? Kidding - I just happened to stumble online as you were posting. Spin the bottle for me and let me know who I would have had the pleasure of kissing.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:05:31 (GMT) From: The SF folks Email: None To: Richard Subject: So what am I, chopped tofu? Message:

You would have kissed Selene and drek.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 06:09:10 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: The SF folks Subject: In that case....... Message:

.......have them kiss each other for me and upload the photo. Who won the ex baby fancy pigeon tossing contest? Peace, y'all!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:31:24 (GMT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Richard Subject: hahahahaha LOL aughhhhhhh Message:

what did you eat? A clown? :)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:03:53 (GMT) From: suchab...... Email: None To: Joy Subject: Yeah. Enquiring 'minds' wanna know!! haha (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 09:25:32 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: suchab...... Subject: We had fab satsang but we forgot to sing arti Message:

It's two am and I'm high as a kite from SF Latvian Night. It was the best satsang I have had in over twenty years. The vibe was so high and crisp and clean and clear and alive. The room was filled with 24 shining souls each almost more beautiful than the next. There was enough inner beauty, charm, warmth, joy and bright shining minds in one small room in SF to solve the energy crisis. Chuck and Andy and I were just talking about it. Each of us had dozens of conversations with everybody there and no one talked about the Goober. And we forgot to sing arti. But seriously these are the people who created the vibe around M when he first came. And when they left so did the vibe around M leave until it is currently so tenuous that most of the remaining premies are kidding themselves. The grace, the force, the power was with us tonight. And why was it so high and free? Because there was no BS (Belief System- thanks Deborah for that) or Goober hanging over us. I had darshan from 24 beautiful faces and two of them had never even known M and K. BUT they are the kind of people who hang out with the kind of people we are. The kind who had all that enthusiasm 30 years ago to bring heaven on earth. Well, what I had tonight was heaven on earth. But then I've never wanted much more than for everybody to be happy and it was a very happy gathering. PS If you think my high came from booze, think again. Californians don't drink like those drunken Brits. I had two glasses of gewurztraminer for dinner (it goes well with curry) and one glass of chardonnay afterwards which I forgot to drink because I was so busy trying to get to know everybody I didn't know and catch up with those I hadn't seen in years. Someone I had not seen in 13 years walked out to the car with me afterwards and we walked down the street holding hands like two kids until I became aware that we were swinging our arms in time. But I need to unwind and go to sleep. I'll tell more when I've had some sleep.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:07:08 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: PatC Subject: Glad you decided to go, Pat Message:

(I won't say 'I told you so' - snicker. Oops, guess I did!) Brian and I have compared the feeling we get from talking to ex-premies (and their significant others) to the feeling we used to get in satsang. (I hope this doesn't turn anyone off, but satsang is supposed to mean 'company of truth') You describe it very eloquently. Anyway, I'm glad you liked it - knew you would! Love, Katie

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:03:12 (GMT) From: Wildflower Email: None To: PatC Subject: You hit the nail right on the head! Message:

All the wonder and unconditional love and wisdom and spirituality which we all thought we got from m for all those years really came from US!!! If we didn't have the ability to tap into our own 'higher selves', we never could have found it outside us!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:55:07 (GMT) From: Flor de Lotus Email: None To: Wildflower Subject: Nicely said nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:50:20 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: PatC Subject: The morning after Message:

It's the morning after Latvian night and I still respect everyone now I know what they look like! Everyone looks MAHVELLUS! PatC I loved your post. When I met him, I said, 'wait a minute, you're not fat!' He has been giving out false advertising. His husbands are fascinating and very kind. Someone was there who claimed to have had the service of washing my underwear. Only I never had my laundry done - I had the service of coordinating getting the honchos laundry done at Hans Jayanti a couple of times though. So we healed a 20-year misunderstanding (so whose underwear was it?). I was almost too shy to meet such a celebrity as Roger Drek, but he turned out to be adorable (and a bit shy himself). Joe is a real love-bunnie (hope this is okay Joe) and so is his partner Kevin. Joe radiates love and caring even more in person than online. Marianne is great - the mother of all, the person to know when you're on death row, bright and funny. Her husband is a dish and very nice. It was great to see Mark and Billy Appleman. All this time I have had a different face on Mark, but over dinner I gradually put him back in his right place. in fact, there were a couple of people there whom I had known, but it took me a while to figure out who they were, or rather, where they were in my brain. Then after an hour or so, I started remembering them well. This was one of the most impactful things for me: I realized that there are probably thousands, or at least, literally hundreds of people that I was close to that I have just forgotten. Leaving the cult meant leaving a huge network of connections. Also, I lived in communities and ashrams in many places in the world. There are South American and Spanish premies (exes?) with whom I lived for years, and I haven't seen or heard from them in 20 years. It was very healing just seeing the people I did know, and it made me think that it would be truly incredible to have a big convention of exes, and do it ourselves (get happy, as PatC said) to finally purge any belief we had that MJ did it for us.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:54:50 (GMT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Everyone Subject: DONT DOUBT THE PURITY OF THE MASTER Message:

Que tipo asqueroso. Translation? Impossible, it means disgusting, chancho, puerco, pig. What purity maharaji? I dare you to explain it to us? Maybe Mili can help me understand that one; I never got it. Forget it. I forgot he cannot think or be honest. That is not allowed in HIS shitttttty world. garbage!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:04:29 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: Silvia Subject: The nice thing about... Message:

Other amphibians: toads frogs salamanders, is that they are small, they don't talk back, they don't have followers

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 08:55:21 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Bob Subject: OT...( except The Lizard King; he had followers) Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:17:53 (GMT) From: silvia Email: None To: Bob Subject: The nice thing about... Message:

is that they are small, they don't talk back, they don't have followers I shouldnt have said the word pig in a demeaning way, poor cuchis, so cute. Lard is ugly as hell, his forhead reads good for nothing all over, pigs? cutties to me. I went last weekend to a fair and had a great time there feeding farm animals and all went fine until my boyfriend decided to invite for a romantic ride in the wheel 'thing' (how is it called?) and I couldn't do it. Is like I have been in Mars and return to Earth! Guchi is a soul snatcher, did you know? :0 I have to answer your E-mail. I like the pic of the moon! I'll answer your letter tomorrow. I was typing all days; my fingers are about to fall off...lol I'm sending you now my picture.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:41:00 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Goober is Back !!! Message:

at Pia's Place, that is ! Oh! I'm so excited... Anyway, it's a beautiful picture of Our Lard at the ah, er, organ I guess. But that's not the beauty pary--if you squint ever so softly at his golden visage you can see the chalis and host appearing on his sacred forehead and cheek ! Its--its--A MIRACLE !!!! Here's Goobie!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 07:47:31 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: gerry Subject: Copyright infringement? Message:

Very interesting about the photo of Captain Rawat being on Pia's site, then removed, then back up. It was the photographs of Captain Rawat that appeared on some of the ex-premie websites that Elan Vital used to shut them down as violating copyright laws. I guess it is ok for her to put up that photo. Looks awfully official to me. Anyone ever seen it in an EV publication before? Marianne

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:20:02 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Drekkie was shut down for doing the same (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:06:07 (GMT) From: silvia Email: None To: Marianne Subject: taht must be a pic of the ones HE SELLS TO PREMIES Message:

at his events. Would you sell your pictures to YOUR friend? Ridiculous! Having fun girl? I know you're. Good for you guys! maybe next time I have the money to go. I'm still paying for my last Latvian with JM. lol

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:51:27 (GMT) From: silvia Email: None To: gerry Subject: Goober is Back !!! uglier tahn ever, and tat evil Message:

evilish smile is disgusting! Rapper of souls! Pia looks soooooo happy, right? NOOOOO Premies eyes are empty. Remember when they were free and shined? Is cold here like hell. They are spraying sh...like crazy here. Most around here are sick with upper respiratory infections! Me? no, I'm healthy like a horse that I'm. he must be a rooster but I'm a horse and we are persistent, and I will kick'em all over. I'll promise, to my mother's pain the cuchi caused, bastardino, asquerosino, bandido, podrido. LOL I'm having a silly time. sorry. too much spray? LOL

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:52:54 (GMT) From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: silvia Subject: Goober is Back !!! uglier tahn ever, and tat evil Message:

Silvia Pia looks soooooo happy, right? NOOOOO Your face probably wouldn't look so happy either if you were dying of cancer like she is, Silvia! Your a fine example of 'ex' compassion, and it's not something that inspires me to leave Knowledge. Mel

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:13:55 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Mel Bourne Subject: Strange thinking, Mel Message:

Mel: (1) Pia chooses to mention (exploit?) her medical condition in the context of 'Knowledge', yet it is irrelevant to the question of whether K brings happiness. (There are plenty of happy people with terminal cancer - even non-premies. When my brother had terminal cancer - the last time we ever met, in fact - I brought him the glad tidings that the Lord was on the planet. It seemed important at the time. Fortunately the news did bugger all to dampen his spirits. God, HOW I wish that last meeting could have been different and I hadn't infected that hospital ward and the close family atmosphere with Guju's messianic cult poison). (2) You suggest Sylvia lacks compassion. Well, suppose you WERE right... (PS to Sylvia - this is hypothetical!).. when did Sylvia ever set herself up as a model of spiritual leadership or start her own cult? Did she ever demand YOUR devotion, service or donations? You'll be stuck with guru gobshite forever if every ex-premie is required to meet your exacting standards before you consider joining their number.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 15:26:09 (GMT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: I'm about to leave for few days? Where are you Message:

oh, I forgot, you're sleeping out there in Australia. I'll come back just to read your response. Thanks.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:18:36 (GMT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Mel Bourne Subject: Shhhhh MEL - Think wider Message:

You logical thinking at F5 have been faulty many, too many IMO Mel, I always read your post hoping you left him; I wish you could have figured out you belong to a cult and maharaji is its leader, but it seems his spell got you good, so far. You are not Dettmers who knows much, you are not M. Donner either, but consistently you continue coming to MY forum to talk about what you don't know. You come and throw swords blindly, not meassuring yourself at all, fine Mel, what can I say. I use them too, BUT to say SOMETHING. Premies are sad people and their happiness is fake, unlike other type I know today. About Pia's cancer.If you think that by me saying that about her apparently,beside I have no proof that what she is saying is true, MAY mean I lack compassion toward other's is faaaar from the truth.Your thinking is flat like the Pampas where I come from. If you see necessary to continue coming here and throw venom,go ahead my friend and call yourself a premie, a lover. You people have no clue what real love is since you have settle for such a strange kind of chuchi love: Your master put to sleep your analytical thinking capacities, but more, your TRUE hearts. People who know me would NEVER think I did it with malice...I'm saying the truth. Premies are sad, sad beings, always LONGING for the imaginary friend maharaji. You choose to attach an emotion to my statement which I didn't intend. I don't long anymore because I did chose real freedom. I do not have only one person who truly love me but many, more, I love myself today. Can YOU say that? Love is love and your master (you dog) taught you thatHE is the ONLY ONE capable of loving us, human beings, right? What a FALLACY! I know MANY, many loving people and they never received any knuledgefake... Compassion. Hmmmm... BTW. Did you notice that he doesn't talk about the real GOD anymore, GOD, or Universal Creative force, Universal Concioussness, whatever is that you chose to call THAT mystery Do you know why he doesn't mentioned GOD anymore? We can feel it but we cannot put it in words...How is it that he himself is GOD these days in his premies hearts? I feel THAT in me, I'm a divine being myself and I know the truth somewhat and I continue growing and wanting to know more. I was stacked Mel with Guruchi, I couldn't be myself, I couldn't talk to people as instructed by the gronchos of EV. I was dead. But here, this is Silvia/SB being herself chosing at times humor to avoid jumping in a plane to park myself by his Divine Residence UNTIL he answers my questions. Because you know well Mel, as premies he instructed us to find answers in our hearts for our questions BECAUSE HE CANNOT ANSWER THEM HIMSELF!-fake being- and Mel, I NEED to talk with him, I NEED him to asnwer few questions, preferable, looking in my eyes. One, I want to ask why when I lived behind Dr. Ed's house and I was sick for 2 month and 10 days and he lacked compassion and chose to go yachting instead of helping another human being come out of her dillussion. I asked constantly to see him. I drove myself nuts because he never came. I lived in La Gorce, so close to his house... Yeah, you people know lots about real compassion... I tell you what I think about (explain your opinion on it)maharaji's compassion toward others: He has NONE. Why I say that? Because if he did he should have stopped by now torturing others, trapping others with lies in his totally stupid nonsense 'world'. He is no holy man by any means. He is a BAD person Mel and you don't have to agree with me. I understand how hard it is to find out taht the one you loved has deceived you for sooooo long and for some of you premies it seems to be too painful to analize and avoid it like hell. Jim Heller is a caring person but you guys chose to see him as a monster. That is compassion and understanding, right? yuck to your brain! I'm mean. Yeah, sure...sush. Do I have a need to explain my charities and my work here and sound stupid talking of the many ways how I express my love to ALL humans, including your illusive retorted master? Do I have to explain my involvement in society as we speak to change what is wrong? Do I have to explain that I'm a loving person and that I do have compassion for other's pain? I can give details so you can know me better if you ask, in case you haven't noticed by my posts. See me as you can, that is all you CAN do, flat dead brain. I'm a truly a compassionate person, blunt often, but I do care about others POSSIBLE suffering, you know people's sick motives: Sometimes people say painful things to touch others emotions and gain sympathy, begging for it. I speak the truth.Do premies look REALLY happy Mel? Their smile is plastic and sad, IMHO. I say it because NOW that I'm AWAKE I can notice few differences. People around me, neighbours, my family doctor, my son, my friends ask recently why I'm sooo very happy and my answer is to them as is for you: I love being alive, I love LIFE today, and it shows. I feel I was emotionally dead and now I'm living. I'm feeling good, feeling human and IMO you're making a big mistake ONCE more jumping into false conclussions. I wrote to another ex yesterday here that I went to Pia's site and wrote a very nice post and when I pressed submit it bounced. I think I should have wrote 'YOU KNOW WHO' instead of MAHARAJI. I think the 'magic' word pointed to her PC as me been dangerous to her mental health. Aren't premies afraid to discuss openly their understanding of who LARDY is?? Yes, and I know why. Because we human, real humans, awake beings CANNOT talk about what we don't understand. (I'm trying to work through these pages the mental ensalada your DEAR, soooooo dear master helped me prepare for 27 years, he gave me his gift, THAT special gift he insist he wants to give to all humanity because the ONLY real way to know oneself: Bologna! He has been lying to you for tooooo long so it doesn't surprise me that you are here again saying what you say. I'm not touch by your criticism at all. I know who I'm, I'm a secure being these days, no doubts. I honored your post and answered it and I hope you answer mine. I have underlined what I would like you to expalin to me; maybe I miss something, but I don't expect sincerity because you have shown to us you have none. Try though. I know deep inside you is a real human being, sleeping, dreaming knowing, but he ain't.Your assumptions speak sound and clear, your passing of judgements, your IDEA of what freedom of speech is, your blindness to see the whole picture... maharaji lied to me and I have all the right in the world to detest him and his fake followers, specially the ones like you, so viciously determined to deffend the BAD GUY to ANY cost! LOVE to u from my heart to yours!! I feel compassion for you too Mel, I really do. Join us, the human world and LIFE are wonderful things. ~Silvia B.Sommer~

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 08:48:36 (GMT) From: Mel Bourne Email: None To: Silvia Subject: Shhhhh MEL - Think wider Message:

Hi Silvia It is quite apparent from your response that you are a very feeling person and are by no means as insenstive as I thought. I thought your remark about Pia's apparent lack of happiness to be insenstive and reacted accordingly. I believed that she might be quite hurt by it, so I poked back at you. Anyway, I'm glad you got all that off your chest! (Seems like it's been pent up for years) LOVE to u from my heart to yours!! I feel compassion for you too Mel, I really do. Join us, the human world and LIFE are wonderful things. You may be quite surprised, Silvia, about how close I am to the human world and life, but thanks for your heartfelt words. Mel .

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:26:00 (GMT) From: Silvia/SB Email: None To: Silvia Subject: Here MEL - You may want to read this too Message:

my post in innactive. Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 05:52:21 (GMT) From: I know more Email: None To: Marianne Subject: It happened to me Message: My first spell of depression came when I went to a city to ask for K. Sulekshna Bai didn't think I was ready and folks, by that time I had become a surrendered devotee, totally believeing he was who he said he was: God encarnated. I got very sick one time in Miami. My then husband and I rented a little apartment behind Dr. Ed's house, maharaji's doctor(I believe he delivered all his children too). Anyway, living there I got severely depressed and even that it sounds weird,I didn't sleep for 2 months and a week. I would ask my husband to help me,to take me to a hospital and he wouldn't. I was told to meditate. I was afraid to go out to the street. I got to a point, I learned later by a diagnosis) I acted like a 7 years old child, but at times I would see that I was sick and that the dillussions I was having were not real, but nobody would help me. All my premies friends disapperead, and Dr. Ed, even that he knew my mental condition never came to see me, no compassion there. Oh, wait, he sent a Valium. What a man! What a good doctor! The oath, you know... Meditate. It will go away. I ask to see maharaji in some point, he lived in Alton road at that times, few blocks away from my home, but he didn't came. It was emotional hell. I was left there alone all day long and terrified of leaving! I was allucinating, I saw things that didn't existed. I smell flowers that were not there. I suffer so, so much. I didn't even had the strenght or the reasoning to realize that I could comitte suicide to stop the suffering. I, I was gone. I tried to kill myself before K? No. I was a happy young person. I was a model in my country and also worked in TV,my contract finished a bit before meeting Lard. What happened to me? I was so close to dying twice. I have been suicidal many times. can you imagine GOD is in this Earth and you have doubts? You maybe be a BAD person.... One time I overdose and was in a coma for two-three days. I woke up (came out of it)with my ancles and wrists strapped, unable to move, and remained hospitalized for a month and a half. Another time, I waited for a train and when it was coming a lay on the ground. Twenty-eight cars went over my head. It didn't carry me because I was so skinny. My then husband would leave me alone, go to work (very important to him=$$$) with my 2 years old son! (Is that a loving person? Is that consciusness? hell? I know hell. And maharaji has made many minds sick. My ex-husband tried to kill himself 4 times. How is it possible? Yes, both of us have suicides in our families, but like you said, mental/emotional problems were taken as 'just mind-not real' and we were told taht meditation would cure all. Bring your sufferings and I will give you peace; didn't he said that? One day I left and went to a pay phone and called my family in Argentina and they made arrangements and I ended up in Dunellon, Fl, living for three months in the house of an Argentinian Psychiatrist, Natalio Chudnovsky, who saved my life. Very loving, compassionate person. Too bad he died and never got to see me happy as I'm today. Free. Whole again. How is it taht I left the cult on November of 99 and i feel better than ever? Yes, cults CAN be dangerous, more when they are lead by a moron like maharaji. Sorry to hear about what you went through. My uncle killed himself because his wife left him and he got depressed beyond believe. sb/silvia Quit covering his ass. We all ARE accountable for our own actions and what we speak.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:49:35 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: gerry Subject: Goober is Back !!! Message:

I guess they didn't like my picture ha? XXX

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:15:34 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Salam Subject: The picture Rawat doesn't want you to see Message:

. . Master face His expression looks as if he is chewing on a toothpick.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:28:32 (GMT) From: Silvia Email: None To: G Subject: I have better pictures of my EX LORD Message:

I have to learn how to do post'em here. It can only get better around here...yeap. The best is yet to come. ;)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:59:09 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Silvia Subject: Photos, slides? The Goober picture is back up. Message:

What do you have, photos, slides? I might get a scanner to scan some stuff, including some heavy devotional stuff, like Rawat in a mala with his bitch tits showing (that's slang for when a guy has breasts). Some of it is copyright Divine Light Mission, but they would have to admit to being Divine Light Mission to do anything about it being posted.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:25:28 (GMT) From: silvia Email: None To: G Subject: I have a scanner, BUT Message:

I haven't found the time and will to do it yet. I'm working in something else.Before the pics is more important to escript his videos...as you ,wait, I'l email you. :)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:56:46 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Sandy's spiritual lesson on death and compassion Message:

'As for Pia and her cancer, she made outlive us all here, nobody knows....we all have a terminal condition called mortality. And in the Gita it says that the true devotee laments for neither the living nor the dead.' (from a thread below) PLEASE, Sandy, you just have to let us know next time tragedy strikes in your life. PLEASE!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:29:32 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hi Jim, Message:

Nice to see you back. I hear you had quite an interesting break. Anything interesting to report? Any holiday movies for us? Meet any interesting new friends? Anth, making polite conversation.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 09:58:20 (GMT) From: Sandy Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, have you considered a career in tabloid Message:

journalism? You have taken some of my words out of context, coated them with your vibe, not mine, and presented them here like some sort of B movie shyster lawyer scene. It's OK. You can do anything you want to, free will and all that. Pia and I have our own communication that you know nothing about and is none of your business. And so do other people who don't feel they have to check in to see what you think before they express themselves. You would be the last person I would call on or inform if tragedy struck in my life. You are the most pathetic person on this site, IMO. Then again, you would say the same thing about me. And no matter how much you think your shit smells better than mine, you are very mistaken. What I said was true and not spun as you presented to be hard or unfeeling. You did the spinning. Spin on, Jimmy. However you make your bed is how you will sleep in it.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:31:50 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Sandy Subject: Really, Sandy? Tell me about it (yawn) Message:

You have taken some of my words out of context How? Liar!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:56:02 (GMT) From: Sandy Email: None To: Jim Subject: Yawning is a sign of oxygen shortage to the brain Message:

And you always seem to yawn alot right after you have stuck your foot so far up in your mouth that the air is short to the brain. Then you start sputtering words like 'liar' and other such boolshit to antagonize me even further. I have, as they say, your number.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:04:04 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Sandy Subject: You didn't answe the question, Sandy Message:

Nice try, Sandy, but you forgot to answer the question. Again, you accused me of taking your words out of context. Here are your words again: 'As for Pia and her cancer, she made outlive us all here, nobody knows....we all have a terminal condition called mortality. And in the Gita it says that the true devotee laments for neither the living nor the dead.' What's the right context? How did I misrepresent what you said? And yes, Sandy, you ARE a liar. You're just making shit up and you know it. There's no 'contextual' problem here. The only problem is that you said this and now don't know how to honestly deal with it. THAT's the problem.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:02:00 (GMT) From: Sandy Email: None To: Jim Subject: You are a fucked up guy who is a fast talker Message:

That's all you are, a fucked up guy who is a fast talker. You play the same game over and over. You say something outrageous barging into a post in all bolds and caps, I call you on it, you blow past the truth about you that I articulate quite well, and then you proceed to ask me questions as if I am on trial in a court and must obey you, then you go into the 'fucking idiot' and 'liar' phase, and wind up with a yawn or some other insulting bullshit. Pleae Jim, go fuck yourself and leave me alone. Your incredible intellect is just too much for little old me to cope with, you freaking asshole. By the way, who was it who hurt you so bad when you were young? Who hassled you so much that you became a hassler yourself? I don't think it is primarily your profession anymore. It goes too deep and too harsh to just be from your profession. No, somebody messed with you real rough at and early age. There are counselors for that and I urge you to look into it. Sandy

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:37:31 (GMT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Sandy Subject: Shhhh, we need him here Message:

He has guts and persistance. Hi Sandy? How is the man today? Michigan weather sucks! Is rainning again!! Just kidding, nature doing its thing. chau, ;)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:20:53 (GMT) From: Sandy Email: None To: Silvia Subject: A wild boar has guts and persistence too, Sil... Message:

But direction, self-control, wisdom, human decency, compassion... Guts and persistence without a trustworthy guidance system invites chaos. Gotta have more than that to be valuable or useful. A sausage stuffer being paid by the piecework has guts and persistence too. All over the place. So what? Otherwise, I'm hanging in there. It's been soggy and alternately nice out here in NJ....relatively speaking. Sandy

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:51:08 (GMT) From: ~Silvia~ Email: None To: Sandy Subject: He is human sandy, not perfect Message:

I never, I repeat, never perceived Jim as you describe/ed him. I understand Jim, as I understand you, and we cannot accusse each other here if we understand each other's style of expressing our feelings. Sandy, Jim is Jim and you do not like facets of his personality. I don't think is because he's a lawyer but the other way around: He became a lawyer because he KNOWS how to argue what is true. I took two Logic classes in college and helped me inmensely to realize my fallacies and since then I've learned to ask myself the right questions when I want to understand soemething: I have a tendency to jump into conclussions. Lets use our energy to fight mahariachi's lies, we all here are Human Beings STILL in the making, right? We all have so much to learn...I think you should give Jim some credit: He has soften a little.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:06:53 (GMT) From: CW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sandy - Sad, Sad, Sad Sandy...................... Message:

Let's be candid Jim. One thing and one thing only I will agree with you on. Sandy is am unconcious , brain -dead ,dysfunctional , doctranaire moron. His comments on Pia are beyond outrageous. In the circumstances they are simply cruel. He reminds me of the Seventh Day Adventist who lets their child die rather than allow a transfusion. Dont tar us all with the Sandy brush. Even a weasel like me has a sense of compassion and feeling towards someone in Pia's situation. Mind you I spent a little time with her recently and I think she would probably laugh at the absurdity of SADhu Sandy.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:52:28 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: CW Subject: Sandy - Sad, Sad, Sad Sandy...................... Message:

Oh so you know her. Who is she?

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:53:13 (GMT) From: CW Email: None To: Salam Subject: Sandy - Sad, Sad, Sad Sandy...................... Message:

Salam. She is a lady from Denmark.Read her site . She's not holding back on her identity.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:02:40 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: CW Subject: Yeah, and I was abducted by aliens Message:

Well, let me put it this way. It is true what she says, that she is doing on her own or is this an EV job? And don't tell me you don't know. Ask around.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:52:50 (GMT) From: CW Email: None To: Salam Subject: Yeah, and I was abducted by aliens Message:

On Her OWN. Thik about it Salam. Ask your alien lover when was the last time EV sponsored or supported an individuals personal site? Too simplistic Too convenient for you to believe that.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:26:36 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: CW Subject: Yeah, and I was abducted by aliens Message:

Well Mr Cat, I doubt it that premies don't get guidence from EV as to what is right and what is wrong to put on their sites. Bet you 5 bucks that Pia had to tow the line. Look at miss Red Hat Rooster. She says she did. No it's not easy and simplistic.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 01:26:58 (GMT) From: suchiewuchiebananarama Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sandy's an ex-officio-ex now! Peas and lentils(nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 00:09:02 (GMT) From: SILVIA Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Pia didn't accepted my post :SOOOOO equal and fair Message:

this is what I got: our response was NOT send. Please complete all the fields before clicking submit. Be sure to enter a valid email address, e.g. 'youraddress@yourdomain.com' Please use your browsers back button to return to your response. Thank you.< But when I press back all my beautiful writting was gone!! Premies are the scum of Earth too? No. They are gone somewhere....maharaji, you are the wrost!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:14:04 (GMT) From: clh Email: None To: SILVIA Subject: Pia didn't accepted my post :SOOOOO equal and fair Message:

That's a software glitch that would have bit someone sending her a love letter to m to post... It had nothing to do with fair. But she states where she invites people to post that they will only publish posts in accord with their beliefs and perspective. So a diatribe won't make it and, indeed, anything negative (unless very subtle) probably won't. So to complain about 'equal and fair' when it's been stated in IN ADVANCE that it won't be will be a waste of time, post space and childish. It's her/their/(maybe his) forum. She/they/(him?) have the right to set publishing policies for posts, just like this forum has that right. That's fair! Let's all learn from Michelle's bad example and not get into a bogus 'free speech' trip!!!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:08:29 (GMT) From: Silvia Email: None To: clh Subject: so serious... Message:

I agree but 'THEY', the other side u know, are VERY unfair. Every time I go to Lard's site he trapps me in the toilette bowl and cannot get out. Your advice sounded like my aunt talking. :) Are we having fun? I'm. Sooooo many years of being told to shut up now the horses are free and pasting....

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:58:43 (GMT) From: clh Email: None To: Silvia Subject: reply to : so serious... Message:

If I made it sound like I was encouraging you to shut up, my apologies, I don't want that. I enjoy some of almost all your posts. And what isn't my cup of tea in them mostly strikes me a heathy (tho dramatic) venting of anger. And I understand the anger of 1 with the hot blood of a Latina, being a Latino myself. As to my sounding like your aunt... Is that your MAIDEN aunt, cause that's what I usually get? Seriously, I know I'm a serious sort. I've got good excuses... but they are boring and OT so I'll spare ya.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:46:07 (GMT) From: Silvia Email: None To: clh Subject: seriously... Message:

I'm glad you can understnad all my parts. Fair enough. I ment to be funny saying aunt. I know taht is hard to leave such a good looking cult and began anew, but we're doing it, right? The best is yet to come; is getting better everyday! my love 2 u! ;)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:37:32 (GMT) From: Michele Deradune Email: None To: clh Subject: Please tell me what is bogus about free speech? Message:

Really. Please tell me what I said that you perceive as bogus. I would really like to know.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:12:18 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: I can answer that, Michele Message:

'Free speech' means different things in different contexts. Even in the premie / ex-premie world it means different things. When people first started talking about Maharaji online, Maharaji directed his followers to not join in. People like David Coyne, who I trust you know at least by name, called every name they could find on the one small premie web site, started up by Harlan Ray Cooley (with later ham-fisted assistance from none other than Mili), telling them that Maharaji had specifically asked that they not post even favorable comments about him. I know. I talked with Coyne about this. If you think I'm lying, ask him. If you think he was lying, say so. So that's real suppression of free speech. When Maharaji finally saw the writing on the wall and realized he had to allow some internet cult activity, seeing as ours was growing as it was, he condoned (or maybe even initiated) the first 'official' premie site, ELK. From the beginning, ELK promised to host a forum of its own. However, as you know, that never happened. In fact, ELK only accepted the the empty-headed pablum you can still find there. Indeed, ELK went so far as to completely revise and twist around a few fake entries some of us sent in to test the waters. If you haven't read about that already, please do. It's hilarious what depths premies have sunk to, these so-called 'seekers of truth'. You can find that story at the bottom of this site's 'site map'. So now we have expression but Stalinist-style censorship. Still no free speech. Maharaji's own web site is no better. He purports to have a 'feedback' section but you'll never read any letters there. Instead, he has one bullshit summary of how many letters of this kind or that he's gotten. He fails to mention all mine, I'll tell you that. Now Maharaji seems to have opened the door a bit to other premies doing their thing on-line. Besides ELK, you've got 'Appreciation', the EV sites, of course, and maybe a couple of others as well. Nowhere, however, will you ever find a discussion board like the one Harlan used to have. Why? Well, it really is a free speech issue, isn't it? And look at Pia's pathetic site, huh? Again, no dialogue, certainly none with us, that's for sure. They want to rebut our false criticisms; they're just afraid to talk with us. Yeah, right! Mind you, now that I think of it, I realize I've overlooked one site. It's the bizarre Chris Dickey's site, 'Lifes Great' [sic] which David Simpkiss started and let CD take over. It's a real live premie forum. Only problem is, no one ever uses it. Perhaps premies heard about what happened with Harlan's page. Perhaps they realize that they're not supposed to talk about Maharaji freely -- after all, if they were, wouldn't ELK have offered a forum? Or perhaps they're really so confused by the real truth that's coming out now on site's like this, that they don't know what to say. Really, though, I think it's just a matter of premies internalizing the continuing censorship they've laboured under for years now. Elsewhere on this site you can find some of the mind-numbing instructor training manual materials. You can also find, I think, some of the scripts premies are given like parrots to introduce videos and the like. Premies are clearly ordered to answer nothing but simply redirect people to videos and instructors. Very Orwellian, very censored and far, far far from free speech. So we have this ex site here. It's for us first and foremost and I know you appreciate that. And yes, ideally we like the idea that, unlike Maharaji's dishonest world of suppression, repression and funny walks, we can and do talk with anyone, anytime about anything. No holds barred, no hierarchy, jut a bunch of people who used to be in a cult. Yeah, we make a big thing about 'free speech' here because, at least compared to Maharaji's World, it's amazingly free. But, please remember, Michele, this is our site for our interests. We allow premies to post here as guests and that's about it. The moment you piss enough of us off one way or another by really violating either the few stated rules or cuting too deep into our collective comfort level, you're out. That's understandable, isn't it? See, Michele, it's not easy talkign with someone like you. Like all cult members, you say things that just leave others scratching their heads in disbelief. It's not easy talking with flat-earthers, I'd imagine (not that you run into them that much anymore). They're obviously beyond reason and fair argument. Well, I've got to tell you, you're no better. It is so preposterous to all of us to hear you try to characterize EV as some sort of independent organ rather than what it really is, Maharaji's tax shelter. We know. We were EV. We were EV or DLM members, big, small and medium. We know it all. And that's why it's so hard to talk with you. Because, like your lying master, you're dishonest about our shared past, our shared reality. It's hard to take, and, as the FA warned you the other day, we're not going to take it from you or any premie at a certain point. You're entitled to come here and discuss your views sincerely. You're entitled to fool around here a bit just like the rest of us. But this isn't your place and never will be so long as you're a cult member, defending the lies Maharaji insults us with. If that's limited free speech, fine, it's limited. Enjoy it while it lasts. Say something real for a change.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:18:30 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: Jim Subject: also:maha.org requires cookies + bs conditions (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:26:27 (GMT) From: suchaban... Email: None To: such Subject: http://www.maharaji.org/notices/notice01.htm (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 03:14:23 (GMT) From: Gary Epton Email: None To: Jim Subject: Well said! (nt) Message:

shnarfle

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 14:09:51 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim, a question Message:

Very well put! I was amazed to see David Coyne's name in your post. Is that the red-headed rich guy who was a PAM? Is what you're saying that he is in fact an ex who was active against MJ under the name Harlan? I used to know him and would be very interested to know this, as I would have assumed he was still a premie, if I had thought about it. love Katie

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 15:51:53 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: Disculta Subject: Disculta, some answers Message:

Hi Katie! In brief - and I think I have all the facts straight: Harlan is a guy who ran (runs?) a pro-Maharaji site called premie.com/premie.org. He used to have a guestbook on the site where people could post 'expressions' about Maharaji. He didn't edit these except to remove negative posts. David Coyne is another person who e-mailed the people posting on Harlan's site and told them that 'people around Maharaji' said that Maharaji didn't want people talking about him on the internet. Harlan took the site down and then put it up minus the guestbook. The whole story is on this site somewhere - Brian was one of the people e-mailed and then called by David Coyne, so he got the inside scoop. His story is called 'Calling All Premies'. Hope you had a great time last night! You got to meet two of my best girlfriends (and I've never even met them in person!). Love, Katie H.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:21:29 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Katie H Subject: Here's Harlan's premie site (what's left of it) Message:

Yeah, that's right, Katie. Harlan's site was funny. Harlan himself seemed a cool, Hawaiin-shirt Margaritaville type. Laid-back Floridian, just wanted to put up a little web site, talk about the things that mattered in his life, foremost among them, his cult leader, Maharaji. I exchanged emails with him a bit and he was nothing but friendly. Not interested in the 'dirt' on Maharaji such as it was then (essentially nothing more than the Mischler interview and a few bad thoughts some of us were able to muster). Anyway, I can't remember exactly. I think EPO had already started but the actual 'conversation pit' was the newsgroup we had briefly, alt.cult.maharaji. I couldn't get Harlan interested in dropping in. Rather, he had his own little message board, nothing fancy. As more people started posting in ex conversations, wherever they were, some people, premies, also started posting messages on Harlan's site. He threw a major fit at me once because I posted a message there advertising the ex site. Didn't like that, no Harlan didn't. I was banned for life. Meanwhile, Mili had done his slimy deed of taking all the names on Harlan's site and pasting them to the bottom of his fake 'petition' to Usenet, calling us a hate group and trying to get us kicked off. What was so funny -- and indicative of Mili's general intelligence level -- was that several posters on Harlan's site were indeed ex's who'd simply dropped in there once or twice out of curiosity. Usenet didn't need our help. They dismissed Mili quite scathingly -- wish I had a copy of their message to him. I think they told him to just fuck off and get a life or something. It was cute. Anyway, Mili hooked up with Harlan around then. Became co-host of the fledgling discussion they had brewing. Only trouble -- and this is a problem that would plague any open premie forum. I must say I predicited this one -- how to separate the premies who think m's the Lord from those who'd only ever know k-lite and had never even thought in those terms? Mili's way was simple: the minute this dispute broke out he told everyone to shut up. There'd be no debates (read 'discussions') on that forum. Just superficial messages like we've come to know and love on ELK. Harlan's site is still up. It's at: http://www.cooley.org/crc/ Click on 'premies' and follow the links to a few galleries of Hamster shots. Harlan's shaved off his moustache, I see. That's about it. So when we heard about this Coyne guy we couldn't believe it. Maharaji was actually directing someone to direct everyone not to post messages about him on the internet? Really! I tracked down Coyne and talked with him at length. He confirmed the agya. Maharaji was definitely behind it. David is apparently a man of some wealth or something. That's what others say. In any event, he's enough of a PAM to be able to offer to try to set up some communication between me and M. I told him he was nuts, it'd never happen but he thought my questions were 'sincere' and that it was worth trying. Hell, Linda Gross, then president of EV, had earlier promised to try the same thing but to no avail. No way the Hamster was talking with any of us, I knew that. Sure enough, David finally gave up and I thanked him for his efforts.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:49:07 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Jim Subject: History part 1 - Mili's orginal message to Usenet Message:

Here's Mili's original message to Usenet, which was supposedly 'signed' by 91 people (including me and Brian!) See if you can find your e-mail address on the list (snicker). ------------------------------------ Dear Sirs, We are writing to you with an urgent request to consider the alarming situation that we, as followers of Guru Maharaj Ji have found ourselves when recently the Usenet Newsgroup alt.cult.maharaji, stigmatizing us as a 'cult' was instituted on the Internet, and thus inciting xenophobia, discrimination and persecution. We do not proselytize on the Internet (have no website), we keep our practices (of raja yoga meditation) private and are outraged by the slanderous, bigoted and biased slant of this newsgroup. Thank you for your attention to our plight, - Milivoj Krkovic (mili@cheerful.com), living in Zagreb, Croatia Other disciples of the Guru Maharaj Ji: liperta@obelix.htl-tex.ac.at unicorn@realitycom.com Palmheat@AOL.com bsybdy@earthling.net barrycollins@compuserve.com leenovick@p3.net TrigDuel@aol.com hdocaro@inter.net.co bitemail@msn.com durand@bellsouth.net zorayo@distrinet.com.uy malmborg.sundstrom@swipnet.se Moonreader@Cheshire.net, moonreader@monad.net mjmgrp@phoenix.net rienlife@euronet.nl Msjeno@mail2.quiknet.com sgazette@efn.org patrickw@mistral.co.uk avc@tinet.fut.es handwerk@barepower.net achurch@autobahn.mb.ca Marlin.Mktg @ aol.com yousef@netwrx.net maxxum@sinfo.net EMJR86@Sheffield.ac.uk jsca@worldnet.att.net M.Creedy@bton.ac.uk Maggie@internel.com ntb@foothill.net wthomas@swbell.net sgoldman@netline.cl samneric@hellcent.com ggraik@mail.otenet.gr Howard@rronline.com PatSpahr9@aol.coml jonv@feel.com audioh@msn.com smed4428.uri.edu ateacher@sprintmail.com sfjim@hotmail.com barry@amitar.com.au mengel@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu dang@theonramp.net George@norex.com.au unclejoeho@aol.com smed4428 vick911@vicksburg.com cadbury@compuserve.com Dragonslave@msn.com joy@tiac.net pbarnes@willamette.edu jerlewis@aol.com krewlio@hotmail.com Unlonely7@aol.com cyberrgal@saltspring.com hnja@msn.com ktaten@po.jaring.my CPA@AOL.COM camms@ihug.co.nz wallford@mindless.com marczz@webtv.net micheled@bga.com Jeniblu@aol.com mkastris@aol.com jandm@lis.net.au MWDA@MSN.Com jelh@isn.com pragonampi@aol.com vohlson@oi.aust.com Baldomero.Lago@m.k12.ut.us cphelan@capecod.net groddau@idirect.com mmarquez@sagi.ucv.edu.ve JJ123@WEBTV.NET hsjeck@mindspring.com mayolives@aol.com ninks@hotmail.com hd100231@mailbox.hogia.net krakbc@indo.net.id rubeneque40@hotmail.com marcoslogco@cantv.net cyberman@sprint.com.au micarma@cancun.rce.com.mx gicam@lis.net.au ricyrub@redestb.es robbiesm@nedcor.co.za odonnells@insurance.ca.gov hopmar@hotmail.com belinda_cole@one.net.com.au deva@promalaysia.com.my howard@rronline.com bustercam@usa.net bookman99@aol.com petkat@mail.trib.net staverm@lnd.com BJT1250@Aol.com snates@netmex.com Qadesh@dircon.co.uk crows@theonramp.net cmg@netcomuk.co.uk lesley@scout.dyn.ml.org geoffk@crystal.cirrus.com Marlinmktg @ aol.com thirdeye@primenet.com pinaglieri@hotmail.com cadbury@compuserve.com monkey@vossnet.co.uk wm-home@enternet.com.au harlan@platinum.nospam.fc.hp.com mayolives@aol.com terrie.waddell@santafe.cc.fl.us lotfe@hotmail.com acer@AOL.Com editor/n64@aol.com blk@lava.net chabela@hotmail.com caseys@nccn.net

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 08:02:07 (GMT) From: Mr. Mind Email: None To: Katie Subject: This shows Mili to be out of touch w/M Message:

By 1998, Rawat had long since abandoned the alias of Guru Maharaj Ji. In fact, unless your check was substantial, it would be returned to you and you would be consciousness satsanged into re-writing it to Maharaji

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:51:27 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Katie Subject: Notice the 'micheled@bga.com' ? Message:

Wonder who that might be...? ('Michele' is a very unusual spelling of the name, with only one 'l')

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:59:45 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: Katie Subject: History part 2 - Usenet's reply to Mili 1/2/98 Message:

Here is what Usenet replied to Mili: In article pgylZHAyaWr0EwW4@sidaway.demon.co.uk, Sherilyn wrote: I checked this newsgroup. It was formed in July after discussion in alt.config, its name is legal and did not create a new second-level hierarchy. According to Dejanews, it got over 300 postings a month during October and November. If you don't like the newsgroup, you don't have to subscribe to it. You might like to reconsider your approach, which has already been tried in the case of the Church of Scientology and the Calvary Chapel to my knowledge. In both cases, the request backfired--very badly, in the case of Scientology. > I reproduce here the earliest of Scott P's newgroup messages for the newsgroup to hit dejanews, wherein he defines the charter and gives further information. > > Subject: cmsg newgroup alt.cult.maharaji > From: Scott P > Date: 1997/07/18 > original message sent: 7/10/97 > copy of original message text: > > For your newsgroups file: > alt.cult.maharaji Issues of cult dynamics and Maharaji's meditation movement > > Charter: This discussion group will be a continuation of an already established web based forum that has averaged about 40 messages per day over the last 4 months. It is intended to be an open discussion about the impact of, and the dynamics of the meditation movement headed by the Indian born Maharaji (b.1957). Maharaji, aka Prem Rawat, also aka Guru Maharaj Ji currently has his primary residence in Malibu California. He once claimed over 6 million followers worldwide, ('Who Is Guru Maharaj Ji?' Bantam Books, 1973), and during the height of the Vietnam War Era (also 1973) promised he would usher in a new era of unprecedented global peace. > > In former years Maharaji would regularly promise in writing to new converts that, in exchange for surrendering the reigns of their lives to him, he would lead them to 'immortality'. Several years later, (as of the writing of this charter), he has retreated from overtly making such an astonishing claim, yet still purports to be the sole possessor on Earth of the unique ability to reveal one's inner life force, (soul?). This discussion group welcomes both current and former followers to share their perceptions and experiences of Maharaji and his movement in the hopes of dispelling any misconceptions or misinformation that may exist concerning the actual history and facts about Maharaji and his movement.< > And this wouldn't be complete without Mili's reply to Usenet. Read it and weep: From: mili@cheerful.com (mili@cheerful.com) Subject: Re: REQUEST TO REMOVE NEWSGROUP Newsgroups: alt.config, alt.cult.maharaji Date: 1998/01/03 I am astonished by your tactless, brusque and insensitive response. I suppose it is too much to expect of a company that tolerates dissemination of child pornography on the Internet to have a sympathetic ear for the plight of minority spiritual communities. You are in fact actively engaged in instilling prejudice and inflaming hatred leading to violation of basic human rights. This is not the end of this matter, I assure you.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:16:46 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Katie H Subject: Hey Katie, what about Usenet's NEXT reply..? Message:

The one-liner where they said to Mili: 'Fuck off you troll'. Surely you haven't deleted that one from your hard drive..?;)

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:53:49 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Here's what they said Message:

[I must admit that I admire Sherilyn's diplomacy, although I don't know what her signature means. Quoted statments (in italics) are Mili's. BTW, this is all in the Dejanews archives - now hosted by Google. Not hard to find!] From: Sherilyn (Sherilyn@sidaway.demon.co.uk) Subject: Re: REQUEST TO REMOVE NEWSGROUP Newsgroups: alt.config, alt.cult.maharaji Date: 1998/01/03 [follow-ups set out of a.c.m per newsgroup charter which does not welcome crossposts] In article <883831169.1772814339@dejanews.com>, mili@cheerful.com writes >I am astonished by your tactless, brusque and insensitive response. My response to your tactless, brusque, and insensitive attempt to have a newsgroup removed? >I suppose it is too much to expect of a company that tolerates dissemination of child pornography on the Internet to have a sympathetic ear for the plight of minority spiritual communities. Which company would that be? I speak for myself, and I do not work for any company that has anything to do with the internet. >You are in fact actively engaged in instilling prejudice and >inflaming hatred leading to violation of basic human rights. > >This is not the end of this matter, I assure you. Well I guess you could try to send out rmgroup messages; but now you tipped us off so I guess we will send out newgroup messages. Sherilyn Ai to seigi no, seeraa fuku bishoujo senshi! Seeraa Muun yo!

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 03:27:35 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: Welcome back, Katie! Message:

Katie, I haven't seen one of your posts for ages now. To tell you the truth, when I saw this one I thought it was the other Katie's. (We just call her 'Katie' now. Would you mind going by 'Katie H' or something?) Anyway, I thought it was the other Katie, the regular Katie, but whatever. I clicked your message, a completely irreversible act I've discovered, and here you are! Katie, how are you? Where've you been recently? I thought you'd dropped off the face of the earth or something. Good to see you. Anyway, wasn't there a message like Nigel recalls? I seem to remember that it was a bit shocking that Usenet would be so astute. P.S. You wouldn't believe some of the ex stuff JM's been doing in France (that's France, Europe)! Got this obscure, fanatical communist tract to do a large piece on Maharaji and, well, maybe I should let him tell you. You remember JM, don't you? The French guy?

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:48:46 (GMT) From: Katie/Katie H Email: None To: Jim Subject: Say WHAT, Jim? Message:

I know you were trying to be funny (?) but I don't get it - maybe because it's early in the morning and all I've had to drink is coffee.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:55:13 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Katie/Katie H Subject: Never mind, just trying to be funny (nt) Message:

ffffff

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 07:26:14 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Jim Subject: Found it... Message:

Fucking clueless troll. Followups set accordingly. John Hmm, pretty close to how I remember it. It was your forum post, Jim, on Jan 4, 1998. A discussion followed on whether the Usenet guy's email was an insult to trolls.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 12:00:25 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Thanks, Nigel - here is Brian's response FYI Message:

[I love the 'insulting to trolls' controversy :). Anyway, here is what Brian (then posting as 'spoon') wrote in response to Usenet in further explanation of the scam:] This is not correct. Mili was a co-Webmaster along with Harlan (on the list of names) of a pro-guru website URL:www.premie.org). At his guru's request that his devotees not post about him or his bizarre teaching on the internet, Mili and Harlan took their site down. During the time that it was functional, premies (devotees of Maharaji) freely posted to that site, including their email addresses with their posts. As I was not allowed to post there due to my being an ex-premie highly critical of his Master's teachings, I posted there under an old BBS account 'samneric@hellcent.com'. You will find that address on the list of 'supporters' should you look. Along with at least one other ex-premie, 'petkat'. Apparently Mili didn't know the real identities of samneric or petkat, as he argues with us daily on a free forum we host through ex.premie.org - an anti-Maharaji site where I am now the webmaster. What Mili has done is to gather his database of 'pro-guru' posters' email addresses and, WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION, sign them to his 'petition'. This is Mili, day in and day out on our forum. We view him as a prime example of what can happen when you suspend thinking for yourself as an adult, and instead rely on a cult leader to do your non-thinking for you. He is a bit of a pet on the online forum - harmless, mindless, and possessing absolutely no sense of right and wrong. In other words, a perfect devotee for his guru. I'm sorry that his antics have spilled over onto alt.config as they have. In the future we will try to keep the door to his little cage more securely locked, so that he not bother the neighbors any more. Sorry to any who have been inconvenienced. Aside to Mili: Mili, you are confused.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:51:58 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Katie H Subject: Heheheeh I guessed Mili was a jerk :) (nt) Message:

zz

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:27:39 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Dermot Subject: BTW, alt.cult.maharaji is sill a newsgroup! (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:08:34 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: All Subject: Lots of stuff in the Dejanew Usenet archives Message:

They're now on Google. You can read Jim Heller's posts from 1996 and 1997 if you want :).

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:56:36 (GMT) From: ~Silvia~ Email: None To: Jim Subject: I know why Message:

Maharaji had specifically asked that they not post even favorable comments about him. Because he knows that only barbarities can come out of premies trying to explain the REAL relationship between them. Poor premies...they think he was doing us a favor. I hope I came sooner. Thanks to my ex-premie husband I got here. I'm out and he still in. Ironic...

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:43:27 (GMT) From: DERMOT Email: None To: Jim Subject: Really great post Jim...spot on (nt) Message:

zz

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:55:21 (GMT) From: Michele Deradune Email: None To: Jim Subject: You make very valid points, Jim Message:

Thank you, Jim. You make an important point re Maharaji directing people to say not to talk about him on the Internet. I actually did not know for sure (or could not remember) if that was his personal directive or not, but I totally believe it. I do believe he has been afraid to allow free speech. I guess I should have posted this more clearly before, and I appreciate the opportunity you have given me here. I have a number of blatant, flat-out, large disagreements with Maharaji. This is the biggest one. I believe -- I could be wrong, but this is my belief -- that Maharaji...hmmm...this would be so much easier to have a telephone conversation...and I wasn't going to post anymore tonight, but I must promise myself I will stop for the night. I believe that Maharaji just doesn't really know what to do. And I don't blame him, because he has about the strangest situation I can imagine in that he has NEVER taken off enough time from going around and seeing people at programs to find out what it is like just to live in the 'real world,' if you will. I don't mean to say his world is not real, but it is -- and he has HUGE problems, and HUGE luxuries that most of us can't imagine what that is like. But just as I cannot imagine what it is like for him, so too I truly believe that he cannot imagine what it is like for me -- and for many people. Because the fact is, he never, at least not in this life, has ever been 'just one of us,' if you know what I mean. That's a hard row to hoe. It also means that he cannot really grasp a lot of our concerns. In this way, I feel that he really needs help. I wish I could help him do that, and that is why I post here. Because I have been a 'rank and file' sort of person most of my life, if not all of my life. The three years I lived in the ashram are the ONLY years of my adult life that paying the rent has not been a struggle for me almost every single year of my life. When my son was a baby and I was a single mom (I was not married to his father, who was rich and who chose to neither give a penny of his money nor a minute of his time to his child), there were mornings I would wake up and just cry -- because I was so afraid I would not be able to make enough money to continue to provide a safe shelter for my son and good food -- just a basic, decent life. I went through that really heavily for about three years; that was the worst, having a child and feeling so scared you can't provide for him. Maharaji has never had this kind of experience. And from what I can tell, the people around him don't seem to be those kind of people either -- or if they are, they are not doing their job, because I think they should find a way to make him understand. Okay, I'm getting tired and my digressions are getting the better of me. Suffice it to say, I believe that Maharaji has made some wrong assumptions along the way, and I don't think he even realizes it. At the same time, the reason I apologize for him is because I cannot imagine, given his set of circumstances, how I could expect him to know so many things. I wish I could help him and I wish he would let me be his friend and spend time with him. I have so much I want to tell him -- very respectfully, and with much love -- about what it is like to be a premie and have been treated the way I have been treated and so many premies have been treated (i.e., poorly). I believe that if I could get his ear, he would listen. I have hope. I probably didn't answer all of your question, sorry. I have to look at it again tomorrow or so because I must get some rest now. Warm regards, Michele (not an ex!)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:59:48 (GMT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: I have the videos, yes Message:

he said it directly and indirectly, making any who was thinking in checking this site out ment to be stupid, losing our time, etc. SEE? I had a Videos Subscription for a loooong time and I KNOW the SUBJECT well. Do you have questions?? I can try answering them, you coward liar!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:58:40 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: You make very valid points, Jim Message:

I don't mean to say his world is not real, but it is --and he has HUGE problems, and HUGE luxuries that most of us can't imagine what that is like. You're right about the luxuries, but what's so HUGE about his problems -- that everybody in his organization kisses his ass? What do you know that you can make a statement like that? Saying that Maharaji has HUGE problems is just one more example of a premie imagining what's going on in Maharaji's world without actually knowing. Wake up, already. You don't know anything at all about Maharaji's problems, let alone how 'huge' they are.. there were mornings I would wake up and just cry -- because I was so afraid I would not be able to make enough money to continue to provide a safe shelter for my son and good food -- just a basic, decent life. Seems to me your problems were a lot more HUGE than anything Maharaji has to contend with, and REAL. At the same time, the reason I apologize for him is because I cannot imagine, given his set of circumstances, how I could expect him to know so many things. In your own words, you're practically admitting that Maharaji has no relevance to the reality of your own life. You and he are worlds apart. I wish I could help him and I wish he would let me be his friend and spend time with him. Every premie's dream. Keep dreaming.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:25:01 (GMT) From: to Michelle Email: None To: Jerry Subject: SHUT UP!! I know better than you: READ this Message:

You're right about the luxuries, but what's so HUGE about his problems -- that everybody in his organization kisses his ass? What do you know that you can make a statement like that? Saying that Maharaji has HUGE problems is just one more example of a premie imagining what's going on in Maharaji's world without actually knowing. Wake up, already. You don't know anything at all about Maharaji's problems, let alone how 'huge' they are.. Darling, you know well how often mahariachi has changed his stories but this one (see your bolded words) is another of your lies, simply because you do not the subject well. Lardy maru=iachi has said (I own the videos) many times he has problems in fact, I can quote him and I dare EV to sue me if I'm lying: 'You think you have problems...' and he then explained (can't quote that, can't remember the garbage exactly)taht he had seeeerious problems. See? 'Ignoramus' like you think they can speak about what they don't know. Face it. You do not know your master well and I can understand that: He is pretty good at hiding HIS truth to appear impecable, the bastard! here, read. ignoramus \ig-nuh-RAY-mus\, noun: An ignorant person; a vain pretender to knowledge; a dunce. My 'perfect' reader is not a scholar but neither is he an ignoramus; he does not read because he has to, nor as a pastime, nor to make a splash in society, but because he is curious about many things, wishes to choose among them and does not wish to delegate this choice to anyone; he knows the limits of his competence and education, and directs his choices accordingly. Good luck. You are in need of it. love u 2 my darling person.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:04:59 (GMT) From: clh Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: Please tell me what is bogus about free speech? Message:

You got free speach. I disagreed with your belief that you didn't. Here's why I say that: 1) Tho your posts, the ones I'm aware of, consistantly had a high percentage of content offensive to exes, you were never censored, 2) The 'trip' part was your constantly seeming to think that rebutal was, somehow, a deprivation of free speach. It isn't; it is, indeed, the EXERCISE of free speech by those responding. You would have been more on target complaining about the nature of the response. A lot of it was/is abusive and intolerant. I commented on that, and how that's sick, in a thread down below.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:18:27 (GMT) From: Michele Deradune Email: None To: clh Subject: Thank you for the clarification Message:

I'll concede there is some truth to what you are saying there, clh. My response was a reactionary (emotional) one, because when the 'official' FA here starts telling me I can't say what I am feeling and thinking, I feel picked on. I believe anyone looking at how I used to post a couple years back (red heels, red heart, no heels, Happy Hedonist) you will see that I have significantly 'toned down' my pro-Maharaji verbage. Give me time. I am trying to learn how to compromise with you all without compromising myself. Give me time. I have stated more than a couple of times before that I intend to respond to every post directed to me -- as soon as I get to it. (NEW exception: I will not respond to posts I refuse to read, and I refuse to read Silvia's and PatC's posts from now on.) This is good -- it will save me time and abuse, and they can get nasty as they like without getting me all riled up. I really want to reply to everyone here, and not because I want to brown-nose anybody: but because I am sincerely interested in learning what I can learn from you all. Shri Maharaji used to say it was important to listen to your enemies because they will be the first to tell you all your faults. He even suggested buying them a house next door and feeding them every day. Jesus, too, (another Teacher I hold very dear), said 'Bless your enemies.' Well, I'm not in the blessing business, but I have always loved communicating with people of all kinds. Even those who disagree with me -- as long as they don't fling verbal abuse at me that is more than I can tolerate, I don't even mind being put down. And thank you for having the patience to even reply to me when I have tried your patience so much already. I do appreciate it.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:59:24 (GMT) From: Silvia To Michelle Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: Wrong again! Message:

My response was a reactionary (emotional) one, because when the 'official' FA here starts telling me I can't say what I am feeling and thinking, I feel picked on. That is not picking darling, no. We ARE ex-premies and put this forum up but NOT to hear satsang. Speak like an understanding caring person, in respect to our feelings, not like a bully trying to slap satsang on us. We left because we were sick and tired of his BULLSHIT! You want to scream the GRACE of YOUR LORD? Go to the streets and see what happens? You'll be lacked up in a psych unit promptly! Don't do THAT here. IMHO, I think you are good posting stupidity because it shows the ignorance of your leader, well. You are HIS fruit, so enlightned. Give us a brake. You don't know what is like to be in THIS side. I was there were you are and I KNOW THE OTHER SIDE: I'm there. FREE!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 07:13:02 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: clarification Message:

Dear Michelle, I think you may be making a mistake if you do not read PatC's next post to you. I have found him to be a thoroughly kind and decent man, with the ability to consistly express himself with far more understanding and tolerance than, well, me, for instance. Silvia's cool too, but I wouldn't expect her to be patient enough with your present condition that I would recommend engaging too much with her right now. It can be very confusing here, and sometimes posts are made in the context of a wider discussion or event. It is possible that in an ecstacy of puerile amusement with the pornolizer site PatC misread your present state of mind. As a happy hedonist himself and longtime devotee I am sure he intended no offence. The words were not his and were not intended, I am sure, to be taken personally. They were generated by www.pornolize.com and not generated by any conscious intent. They were rather an amusement, a mirage, a mechanical distortion. A mere bagatelle and diversion, perhaps... un seuls bagatelle et transfert, peut-etre?? I would like to assure you that we do sometimes know when we're behaving like silly boys, and on this occasion Jim did carefully flag the site as if 'for puerile amusement only'. I know that this sort of thing can nontheless be hurtful, but I do not believe that was part of his intent. From what I know of him, I consider that to be unlikely. I fear that if you do not allow him to share what was in his mind at the time he made his post, you will be denying yourself a future friend. JohnT not an ex

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 07:02:22 (GMT) From: Steve Mulley Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: Thank you for your sincere efforts... Message:

to really communicate with honesty Michele. With respect Steve

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:50:30 (GMT) From: clh Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: reply to 'Thank you for the clarification' Message:

I'm new here, you haven't tried my patience. And having been abused outside of cults I don't stand for it. That's why I defended you against PatC, below, and will defend anyone else I see subjected to abuse on this forum wholooks like they could use some help. Somehow the use of abuse on this forum, dedicated to those who, amongst other things, feel they have been abused by m, strikes me as a continuation of the cycle of abuse, and makes me want to throw up and then go commit acts of senseless violence.(NB: this is NOT a threat, but a description of my visceral reaction) I think that's because 1 of the places I had to contend with abuse was jail, where violence often was an apropriate way to behave. And,IMO, the reactions you get here to satsang are much the same. Present responce to something that triggers response to past stuff, too. But abuse as a reaction is just as wrong as my going out and looking for someone I could start a fight with would be.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 16:35:31 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: clh Subject: reply to clh Message:

Hey clh - It just took me 15 minutes to find this post - the forum apparently went nuts last night. You wrote: I'm new here, you haven't tried my patience. And having been abused outside of cults I don't stand for it. That's why I defended you against PatC, below, and will defend anyone else I see subjected to abuse on this forum wholooks like they could use some help. Just wanted you to know that I appreciate it so much when people do this. I used to do it a lot but burned out on it - for obvious reasons (people defending someone who is being abused often become the target of further abuse). Fortunately there are more people like you on this forum now. You wrote: Somehow the use of abuse on this forum, dedicated to those who, amongst other things, feel they have been abused by m, strikes me as a continuation of the cycle of abuse, and makes me want to throw up and then go commit acts of senseless violence.(NB: this is NOT a threat, but a description of my visceral reaction) I think that's because 1 of the places I had to contend with abuse was jail, where violence often was an apropriate way to behave. And,IMO, the reactions you get here to satsang are much the same. Present responce to something that triggers response to past stuff, too. But abuse as a reaction is just as wrong as my going out and looking for someone I could start a fight with would be. I agree wholeheartedly. I have the nauseated reaction, but not the urge to go out and hit someone (well, usually, although I have wanted to smash my monitor at times.) I get REALLY sick of all the namecalling (talk about 'senseless') and the fact that people's anger against Maharaji, which I believe is justified, gets taken out on premies, who don't usually deserve it. And sometimes the abuse just jams up the threads - it's not anything that I'm particularly interested in reading - and that irritates me (ok, I'm crabby today, anyway). BTW, I get told all the time that I am 'too serious'. I was born that way, and life experiences haven't helped any. So I relate. Take care, Katie H.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:50:04 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: You never read the replies to your posts!! Message:

Which makes it even more clear that you did not come for free speech but for frree preach!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:31:35 (GMT) From: Michele Deradune Email: None To: Bob Subject: Why I have been so slow Message:

I believe if you look in the archives you will be able to count quite a few posts that I did respond to. If you read all my posts you would also see that at least two, three, maybe four times I have stated that I intend to respond to people, but that it is taking me some time. I kept blaming the software, but it is more than that. This is not a place I expect to get any emotional support, so I don't tend to tell you my problems, but I will make an exception here. I just started posting here with my real name less than one week ago. It was a very difficult -- though swift -- decision on my part. I know too well that there are a lot of premies who just glance at this board, look at something that horrifies them, and quickly log off -- so quickly, in fact, that they could (and I am certain already have) read my name and immediately assumed that I am an ex-premie. Not long after I began posting with my real name here, I got a phone call from the person who sends out the mailings for the local hall. He left a message on my Call Notes asking me if I wanted to stay on the mailing list or not. This really hurt, because I have served side by side with him for years, and he and I have held one another in the highest esteem. To know that, possibly, the reason he made that call is because he know believes me to be an ex-premie made me exceedingly sad. And the feelings in general since I have begun posting here have been very intense for me. I have been told that I am an intense person. I never thought of myself that way, but once someone said that to me a couple years ago I realized, 'Hmm, I guess she's right.' But that does not mean that when the intensity gets kicked up about 10-100 notches almost overnight that it is easy for me. Since I began posting here, my highs are higher and my lows are lower. I am more likely to dance and sing; I am also more likely to cry and wail. It is my belief that either the intensity will subside OR I will get more used to it and be able to function better then. Until that time, I will not be as fast at responding as others might wish -- or as fast as *I* wish. I am trying to get better. I really am. But please also, if people here really want me to answer them more quickly, it will help if I don't have quite so many to respond to. The less people direct questions to me, the fewer the posts I need to respond to, the quicker it will go. But at the same time, if someone can't help but post to me three times in one hour, what am I gonna do? All I can say is that is okay -- but please give me a little bit of time to adjust before you expect me to be able to respond so fast. Michele (not an ex)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:55:52 (GMT) From: ~silvia~ the forum angel Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: A question Michelle Message:

Do you still think I am a crazy woman? Answer with honestly. You've read quite a bit. Just curious. LOVE is real.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:15:31 (GMT) From: ~silvia~ the forum angel Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: If you stay ON the subject is easy to asnwer Message:

Why sooo many words to say taht you are STILL a cult memeber. Say it and enjoy it. You are, aren't you? Did you do Tom's QUIZ?? The proof is in the puddin. Good luck. My love 2 u. ;)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 05:56:55 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: Hang in there Michele Message:

If your local EV person knew you were posting, then most likely they were lurking here (reading and not posting). It is my opinion that to lurk is to question and that's a good thing. Anyone questioning his path can only benefit from the enquiry. And the last time I checked it was a free country. I lurked for a year or so with the idea it was a guilty pleasure like reading the National Enquirer or looking at a car wreck in hopes of seeing blood. Others call this site premie porn and I'm certain there are many premies guiltily reading it every day. After awhile though, the truth of it all sank in and I realized this was more than a few twisted folk out to vent. There are some genuine concerns that need addressing but, at the same time, I don't hate premies or M or even the time served. I just want to know who I am now and take responsibility for my self - not wait for someone out of touch with my way of life, as you say, to tell me what to do and think. It was a fun ride back then but I've grown.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:31:41 (GMT) From: ~silvia~ the forum angel Email: None To: Richard Subject: NICE Richard, very nice!! Message:

I just want to know who I am now and take responsibility for my self - not wait for someone out of touch with my way of life, as you say, to tell me what to do and think. It was a fun ride back then but I've grown. That is what is all about. Who wants to know who maharaji is, I want to know myself. Is the only way I can make sense of MY world and what in the heck I am doing in Earth. Is all about REAL love. My love 2 u!! I'm happy for you!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 03:27:54 (GMT) From: sil Email: None To: Bob Subject: she is enjoying the free'talking' Message:

can you imagine for how long her mind was silent? I can't stand her satgangvenom.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:23:13 (GMT) From: Sorry Email: None To: clh Subject: It was a niiiice post Message:

What I said about maharaji was very light... Premies are gone, the human being is dormant and their minds have become such a weird apparatus...able only to detect FEET! Oh well, I tried. I wanted to talk to the dormant being called Pia. maybe in another life. LOL I think you are imaginig that I was rude but it was not the case; it was a nice letter, honest. :)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 01:34:29 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: SILVIA Subject: Pia didn't accepted my post :SOOOOO equal and fair Message:

very funny. Sorry, but you got sucked in.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:25:02 (GMT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Salam Subject: NOOOOOO Message:

She was sucked in, I'm out, free.... What a bunch! This F% feels better than eating chocolate, well, almost. ;)hi salam

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 02:39:23 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Silvia Subject: It's Ok Silvia Message:

to admit our voulrnabilitieities, if you know what I mean.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 04:20:40 (GMT) From: Michele Deradune Email: None To: Salam Subject: It's Ok Silvia Message:

Mind if I call you Salami? Just asking. No offense intended!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:38:57 (GMT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: LIAR!! nt Message:

stupid.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:07:07 (GMT) From: SALAM is the name Email: None To: Michele Deradune Subject: Mind if I call you a door knob Message:

Just asking. Am a muslim, I pry to Alaah 4 time a day, been to the Haj 3 time and I don't eat pigs. YOU are insulting me. This requires a Jihad. Am sending an official complain to the US goverment and meathead. You will regret this.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 04:48:53 (GMT) From: SuchaBanana Email: None To: SALAM is the name Subject: yeah, fatwah declared. ban plant provocateurs. Message:

r.e. 'no offense intended'. Yeah, as if we're just as dumb and gullible as whoever she/he is. Oh well, she's apparently just a babbling troublemaker who has no sense of place here. Like, we're all gonna really miss her posts and get teary eyed. NOT. Peace and lentils, your lil' beetle mate

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:41:45 (GMT) From: ~silvia~ the forum angel Email: None To: SALAM is the name Subject: Good for you Salam Message:

is getting weird but now you know you did the right thing leaving such a weird group, right? Oh DIVINE FREEDOM... My love 2 u friend. There is only one WAY and that is real love for one another.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:09:52 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: SALAM is the name Subject: I just realized that I have an alias as saucy Message:

This is defemation, may Alaah have mercy on me.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 12:30:45 (GMT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Salam Subject: is called ignorance making fun of your nick Message:

I knew from my (not racist) Lebaness friend Eptisam what Salam means. Good nick. I used to use Shifting... lol

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:47:15 (GMT) From: Chelaji Email: None To: Silvia Subject: is called ignorance making fun of your nick Message:

It's not, and has never been Salami, Silvia, it's Guru SalamJi Nerdji!!! And I am but HIS ever-humble chelaji-on-the-path! LOL!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 13:52:43 (GMT) From: s Email: None To: Chelaji Subject: YOUR path is nice, truthful Message:

Is taht you Salam? I'm so innocent, read stupid sometimes...lol May the FORCE be with you! ONLY ONE is, above all especulation, ONE. One heart.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 15:55:35 (GMT) From: Chelaji Email: None To: s Subject: YOUR path is nice, truthful Message:

No Silvia, it's me ... Chelaji/Stonor/Quacklish ... ! :-) I've always liked Zen/Tao stuff too. Have you read Thomas Merton's 'Way of Chuang Tzu'? Anna (I think Herr Sausage is passed out ;)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 17:14:10 (GMT) From: chuchi Email: None To: Chelaji Subject: YOUR path is nice, truthful OT (not) Message:

Hey you!! you're funny... No, but I'm reading a book called The Complete Works of Lao Tzu, subtitle, Tao Teh Ching&Hu Ching, translataed by Hua-Hua-Ching Ni and I have to recognize, from past beautiful experiences, that it made all fit, meaning, it clarified lots the confusion I felt after leaving MY MASTER. Now I have a heart again, full...:) Funny though, the books is great, all over, I understand every piece of it and then I get to the last two pages where the author, MASTER Ni, how 'he likes to be called' put there a big paragraph in the BIIIIGGGGG importance in surredering your life to your master, the one who help you find the WAY and I thought: Fuck you asshole! I found his site in the web (he has many, he's into$$$$) and wrote a short paragraph saying he was wrong misleading people and that he contradicted The Way by saying that, and by having being a devotee/servant of 'my master' for 26 years I knew HOW BAD WAS TO DO THAT. I close it saying 'shame on you'. He of course never answered my e-mail. I didn't expect it either. They don't like to be reminded of their faulty accomodations. I'will mention him in my book, someday. 'No To Gurus and Masters' LOL What a trip has been. PS:Herbs are the best, I wish I had space for vegetables:( I live in a small place. :) Love 2 u Anna! This place is addictive and I have a lot to do so I'll stay away from here for few days. Chau.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 03:15:03 (GMT) From: Chelaji Email: None To: chuchi Subject: Where does 'chuchi' come from, ~Forum~Angel~? :) Message:

I haven't read The Complete Works of Lao Tzu/Tao Teh Ching&Hu Ching, translated by Hua-Hua-Ching Ni, but by the sounds of what you learned about him at the end, maybe it's just as well! ;) That's what I found after a while ... there is always a part of what any of these 'guru types' say/write that some of us do seem to 'recognize, from past beautiful experiences', but then there always seems to be something else that has nothing to do with them. That's one reason why I liked the Zen book I read, The Way of Chuang Tzu, absolutely no dogma. Then there's the Tao Te Ching/King. Again, no dogma. It's a bit depressing at times though, isn't it, that so many supposedly 'spiritual' people try to turn 'Whatever-It-Is' into a business. The web can be really useful that way, I'm finding too. Yes, herbs are great, especially for omlettes and salads and ...!!! I had a long day today, expecting it to pour at any second, but managing to get beans, peas and carrots in before it did! :) Vegetables are great too, but usually the start-up is rough. Have a great week! Love, Anna Shine on ~Forum~Angel~ !!!

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 06:24:13 (GMT) From: chachi sil Email: None To: Chelaji Subject: Where does 'chuchi' come from, ~Forum~Angel~? :) Message:

same too you! the shine too! What is there better than that? So honest! don tel jim, hell get mad an cal u names...;) I'm zzzzzzzzz

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:00:25 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Chelaji Subject: No opinions in:The Wisdom of Laotse[Lin Yutang](nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:41:39 (GMT) From: Stonorji Email: None To: suchji Subject: No opinions in:The Wisdom of Laotse[Lin Yutang] Message:

I'm sure it doesn't - Silvia's version seemed to be an exception to publications of ancient Zen classics. You should try saying 'Chuang Tzu' in Mandarin. If I try hard a few times they can almost understand me if they don't speak Guangdong instead! :-)

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 13:41:10 (GMT) From: cuchi Email: None To: Stonorji Subject: What??? Message:

I don't get this: You should try saying 'Chuang Tzu' in Mandarin. If I try hard a few times they can almost understand me if they don't speak Guangdong instead! :-) Curious. Can u tell me was about this.

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