Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 23:19:49 (GMT)
From: Jun 24, 2001 To: Jul 02, 2001 Page: 4 Of: 5


Jim -:- A very little flash of brilliance -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:26:30 (GMT)
__ CD -:- A very flash -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:57:49 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- I personally know several premies who hate Rawat -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:43:23 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- Pat -- Jim knows this one well -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:47:42 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Following this line of logic... -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:20:59 (GMT)
__ Sandy -:- Not silly at all.... -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 17:58:17 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- No, Sandy, it's extremely silly -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:43:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sandy -:- How convenient -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 04:15:03 (GMT)
__ Brian Smith -:- He's on to something, I am in 7th heaven -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 17:09:20 (GMT)
__ __ clarence clear -:- what is LG -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:21:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- what is LG? It's the premie forum Lifes Great -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:38:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ clarence clear -:- what is LG? Thanks for the info -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 20:40:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Embedding links and other html -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 20:52:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- No LG in my post, haven't a clue (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:35:44 (GMT)
__ S Glade -:- yea, very little -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 16:22:09 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- So Sonny,.. -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 21:56:05 (GMT)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- yea, very little -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:29:59 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Get real, Sonny -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 17:27:32 (GMT)

Way -:- I owe Pat C. ten dollars -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:03:58 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Maybe he plagarized -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:50:09 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- Well sorry and wrong about Voyeur -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:45:06 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- I owe Pat C. ten dollars - not anymore -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:26:00 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- How gracious! -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:26:32 (GMT)
__ Katie H -:- The brick wall - or impenetrable bubble -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:22:54 (GMT)

Bob -:- When is rawat going to post here? -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 10:55:06 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- He won't post ever - no confidence. -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:47:53 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- He won't post ever - no confidence. Nail on head -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:58:24 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- In A Way, He Already Is -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:22:54 (GMT)
__ Katie H -:- Why would he want to!? -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:42:38 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Why wouldn't you? -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:32:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie H -:- Isn't it obvious? Why WOULD you if you were him?nt -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:41:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- I don't know. Right thing to do maybe? (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:44:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- How often does M do the 'right thing'? (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:47:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Beats me --- never? -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:51:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- Sorry, that ain't how I do it... (nt) -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:01:49 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Maybe -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:19:19 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Tribute To Lord Baden-Powell -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:40:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Tribute To Lord Baden-Powell II -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:35:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Question For All Pwk's -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:06:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Now there was a proper Guru Steve, uniforms too.nt -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 17:04:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Now there was a proper Guru Steve, uniforms too -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:26:13 (GMT)

JHB -:- Latest wisdom from Maharaji -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 05:54:23 (GMT)
__ Way -:- Why does he even use words? -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:32:01 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Maybe he's talking to Pia -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:27:11 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Hi John (ot) Latvian stuff. -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:36:15 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Hi John (ot) Latvian stuff. -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:08:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- That must mean... -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 22:09:59 (GMT)
__ bp -:- Latest wisdom from Maharaji -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 08:28:18 (GMT)
__ __ Bob -:- Definition of 'the heart' -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 10:45:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Cult jargon -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:15:33 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Latest wisdom from Maharaji -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 10:33:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ bp -:- Latest wisdom from Maharaji -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:35:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Latest wisdom from Maharaji -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 16:52:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bp -:- Latest wisdom from Maharaji -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 02:26:40 (GMT)

Jim -:- Chicken? -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 05:29:15 (GMT)
__ Sandy -:- I'm having the fish... -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 19:29:28 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- This is torture, psychological abuse aka mind-fuck -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 16:08:20 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Today: Crackers; Day 2: Nuts; Day 3: Fruitcake?(nt -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:06:12 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Start off, chicken, end up, a delicacy NT -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:11:22 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- That's only part of the story Jim. -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 10:51:38 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- The final ring of fire to face: Belkis Shah -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 08:23:15 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- You really bug me Pat... -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 16:09:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Sorry, Joe. I just can't stand dominatrixes -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:07:25 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Sounds like an objective description to me Pat. -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:11:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Sounds like you're demonizing her, Anth -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:29:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- But for me Steve, -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 17:07:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Voyeur -:- Anne Johnson -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:59:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Anne Johnson -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 16:21:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- I remember Anne Johnson. -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 00:10:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Anne Johnson, the worst guest in the world. -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 10:06:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bazza -:- I got knowledge off Anne Johnson. -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 04:02:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I knew Anne way back when -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:07:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Voyeur -:- I knew Anne way back when -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 14:41:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Anne, and compensation for failure -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 18:22:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Voyeur -:- Anne, and compensation for failure -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 18:35:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- The concept of surrender -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 19:12:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ian Dury -:- Miami mob -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 22:57:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Voyeur -:- The concept of surrender -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 20:17:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- I remember Anne Johnson - fab anecdote, Nigel! -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 00:54:23 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Underlining really necessary, Jim? -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 07:43:04 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Sorry! My mistake NT -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:14:48 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Yeah. Right On Steve. -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:15:20 (GMT)
__ Monmot -:- A Sap in the System... -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 05:50:10 (GMT)

bill -:- dreadful guru crapola in my mailbox today -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:19:58 (GMT)
__ Timmi -:- dreadful guru crapola in my mailbox today -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 22:03:10 (GMT)
__ Chuck Sprague -:- We got it too... -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:53:45 (GMT)
__ Mili -:- oh, please.. -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:15:44 (GMT)
__ __ bill-love ya Mili, but -:- you coasted on the outskirts while we served..nt -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:16:08 (GMT)
__ __ Deborah -:- oh, please...Mili - We want to lose you -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 01:35:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mili -:- Why the animosity? -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 03:20:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Why YOUR animosity? -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:57:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- You should be a lawyer, Deborah -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 01:52:16 (GMT)
__ __ JohnT -:- Mili is a fraudster -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:46:48 (GMT)

Sandy -:- The fact that 'Life's Great' has nothing to do -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 02:46:29 (GMT)
__ The other side is -:- that perhaps............ -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:41:33 (GMT)
__ __ Sandy -:- that perhaps............ (Who goes there?) -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:57:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ Okay but -:- you’re the one who’s confused ........ -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:57:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sandy -:- whoever you are... -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 04:24:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Your poem is a jewel, Sandy -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 17:45:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elaine -:- that perhaps............ (Who goes there?) -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:40:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sandy -:- oh yeah, that one...crikey!!!! -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:02:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Not really -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:33:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie H -:- Sandy/Elaine - don't other people teach the techs? -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:57:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sandy -:- The hook that keeps catching me... -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:08:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- The hook that keeps catching me... -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 13:32:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I strongly agree with Katie about this! NT -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:53:17 (GMT)
__ bill- ah, sandy, do the -:- FOUR techniques, in order, like the master says.nt -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:32:59 (GMT)
__ __ Sandy -:- bill, you miss the point entirely, but that's OK -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:39:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- quite the contrary ole boy, I accept reality -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:53:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sandy -:- God and creativity -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:08:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Peter Howie -:- God and creativity another take. -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:43:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sandy -:- God and creativity another take. -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:38:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bill -:- it is that 'for now' issue that is the problem -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:30:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sandy -:- a big part of sincerity IS being yourself, bill.. -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 10:00:15 (GMT)
__ bill -:- Maybe this Pat C post will make a dent -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:27:28 (GMT)
__ __ Sandy -:- bill: Sarcasm and satire may make for an -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:46:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- thou darest critique a Pat C gem? -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:17:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sandy -:- Let's talk 'I' and 'you' if you dare, bill -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 10:04:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bill-Your views are not -:- the issue,it is your abuse of the forum posters.nt -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:13:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sandy -:- You are setting up an us-them thing, bill -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:19:23 (GMT)

Jim -:- Unintentional humour from Lifes Great [sic] -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 01:17:27 (GMT)
__ Katie H -:- Oy Veh! -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:40:27 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- What's THAT mean? -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:31:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Red flag? Sheesh! -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:39:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- I disagree that I never agree with you -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:48:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- I disagree that I never agree with you -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:59:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I disagree that I never agree with you -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:14:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- But I do think that ... -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 20:09:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Big, big difference, Fran -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 00:51:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Point well taken about following ... -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 04:53:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- People who have not had a conversation in 20 years -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 01:02:25 (GMT)
__ Peter Howie -:- My point again which they miss completely -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:13:18 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- 'Without a doubt..stupidity is almost infinite.' -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 01:30:45 (GMT)

Joy -:- Mini-Mini Latvian in London -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 22:15:17 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Blimey, Joy, you're already talking with a hot -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 00:09:56 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- Mini-Mini Latvian in London -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 22:20:53 (GMT)
__ __ Disculta -:- Mini-Mini Latvian in London -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 09:46:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie H -:- Welcome back darling Katie - and hi, Joy -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:34:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mercedes -:- Welcome back darling Katie - and hi, Joy -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:51:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Welcome back darling Katie, sweetie dahling -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:47:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Welcome back darling Katie, sweetie dahling -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 15:49:34 (GMT)

Jim -:- I know I shouldn't laugh ....BUUuuuttttt ......... -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 16:00:18 (GMT)
__ Katie H -:- This is kind of sad -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:46:36 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- So that's who it was. -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:35:07 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Dictionary Please -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:46:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Hi Anth -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:35:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Hi Steve -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:27:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- That's the one Steve. -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:56:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- PS Steve. -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 19:20:58 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- I know I shouldn't laugh ....BUUuuuttttt ......... -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 16:07:26 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Or -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 07:32:02 (GMT)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- I know I shouldn't laugh ....BUUuuuttttt ......... -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 17:07:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ JohnT -:- NEVER be kind to a premie... -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:31:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Its funny how it works either way, no matter what -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 16:44:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Yeah, and I used to be just like that -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 02:14:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Hi Roger -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 07:01:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- OMIMAHA! - It's a ****MIRACLE****!!!!!!! -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:09:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Voyeur -:- OMIMAHA! - It's a ****MIRACLE****!!!!!!! -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:22:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Yes, Voyeur, you hit the nail on the head -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:45:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Ouch! wrong head, Pat -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 19:11:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Oops! Yes, let's leave it up to the author NT -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 19:18:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- oh oh, you mean I need to trawl the archives? (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 20:08:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Not unless you feel slandered and need to -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 22:03:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- I got part of it wrong - Browns doesn't have an -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 10:30:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- 'make a messiah out of a maha' - good one! /nt -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:15:07 (GMT)


Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:26:30 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A very little flash of brilliance
Message:
Over on CD's Lifes Great [sic] site, a stupid premie known as 'Nice Guy' posted the following silly formula:

I think I know...there's a very thin line 'tween love and hate, and they know it...if I spent half as much time thinking about him and plotting as they do, I'd be in 7th heaven!!!

I guess that cuts both ways, huh? Premies say we secretly love Maharaji for all the time we spend here. Does that mean they secret HATE him if they don't spend as much time as we do talking about him?

Silly, I know. I'm going now.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:57:49 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A very flash
Message:
Where Jim gets his good ideas

Its a plot!

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:43:23 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I personally know several premies who hate Rawat
Message:
but they would never admit it. He has driven them insane with frustration and anger and they have turned it back on themsleves in self-destructive self-hatred. Very tragic.
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:47:42 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Pat -- Jim knows this one well
Message:
He lived in Vancouver during the suicides.

love, f

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:20:59 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Following this line of logic...
Message:
all those antiabortion protestors holding up the bloody posters by the clinics and posting the names and addresses of abortion providers on the web...they are actually FOR abortion cuz they think about it so much.
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 17:58:17 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Not silly at all....
Message:
I believe that our motives and our inner feelings have much more weight than how our outward actions may come off, and if we are judged by anyone or anything down the road, I believe that's how it goes. Not that you give a shit about what I believe, but if you can just look at the dialog for a moment and not attack the dialogee....
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:43:08 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: No, Sandy, it's extremely silly
Message:
I believe that our motives and our inner feelings have much more weight than how our outward actions may come off, and if we are judged by anyone or anything down the road, I believe that's how it goes.

Not that what you're saying here addresses the issue but, pretending it did, I think you're wrong. It is certianly not the case that you love the ones you hate, blah, balh, blah......

That's just new age tripe.

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 04:15:03 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: How convenient
Message:
Now that you have successfully embedded the 'new age' thing into the mindset here with a negative twist, all you have to do is just say 'new age tripe' and not have to deal with the details.
Fine. What the hell do I care what you think anyway?
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 17:09:20 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: He's on to something, I am in 7th heaven
Message:
since I started examining the facts and took back my life from the JuJu, my thoughts are free and I can express myself honestly for the first time in decades and it's heavenly.

if I spent half as much time thinking about him and plotting as they do, I'd be in 7th heaven!!!

Mr Nice Guy should follow his own advice, think about the facts regarding M and plot a fast track out of there Guy, 7th heaven awaits your arrival

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:21:42 (GMT)
From: clarence clear
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: what is LG
Message:
enlighten me please
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:38:37 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: clarence clear
Subject: what is LG? It's the premie forum Lifes Great
Message:
It's run by Chris Dicky a nice, decent premie guy who sometimes posts here and who is a secure enough and esay-going enough to allow anyone to post there unlike the official EV sites. Here's a link to it:

Lifes (sic) Great

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 20:40:00 (GMT)
From: clarence clear
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: what is LG? Thanks for the info
Message:
I had a quick look maybe look for longer at some point. It is very clever the way you do this link thing> I am very new to the computer and rather clueless.
Clarence
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 20:52:44 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: clarence clear
Subject: Embedding links and other html
Message:
I can't show you how to do it here because the html will become invisible as soon as I post it. Look under Forum guidelines for html tips. HTMl = hyper text mark-up language.
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:35:44 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: clarence clear
Subject: No LG in my post, haven't a clue (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 16:22:09 (GMT)
From: S Glade
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: yea, very little
Message:
What's up JIm, getting a little boring here on FV now that pwk troops are marching out of the barracks? Shame you didn't post the rest of his diatribes, perhaps a little too confronting for FV though. Clarity and common sense, ah yes, avoid at all costs.

Thing is Jim, premies don't 'think' about M all day we just get off on the high of being alive and dig M because he never talks about anything else. Quite a unique guy actually. No wonder you people can't let go of him. Same here! just that we don't 'follow' him quite as fanatically as some people here do.

Guess well see you back on LG where the vibes are great and the conversations are stimulating and diverse. Yes, there IS a world outside of ex-premiedom!
yours,
Sonny Glade

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 21:56:05 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: S Glade
Subject: So Sonny,..
Message:
...so let's see if I've got this right, 'Being alive', is good, right? And 'being dead' isn't? And, don't tell me, it's got something to do with me breathing.

Because if I stop breathing, I'll die, right?

Anth, have I got it yet?

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:29:59 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: S Glade
Subject: yea, very little
Message:
No wonder you people can't let go of him. Same here! just that we don't 'follow' him quite as fanatically as some people here do.

Is it that hard for you to distinguish that what we are doing here is not following but releasing ourselves from the indoctrination of the cult and the guru.

This forum is a rare place that we can go to and actually engage in an open, honest and fearless dialogue about M and the cult that isn't a cult. 'letting go of him' is a process of engaging in this dialogue and is not the fanatical attachment to follow your master as you so hopefully suggest. It took dialogue to get us in and it takes dialogue to get us out.

By the way, I have seen more than enough fanatic followers in the cult to last a lifetime. You guys can raise the bar on fanaticism.

Yes, there IS a world outside of ex-premiedom!

Where did you come up with this notion and concept that ex-premiedom is a world? Like some mysterious evil empire I suppose, right Sonny?

If you are referring to the EPO, It is what it is, a website, an open forum, an opportunity to freely discuss the discrepancies we have seen over the years of our involvement regarding M and the cult. Nothing more, just a group of people who have and are willing to reclaim their independence and free will and are not shy about sharing it.

I suppose you could say there exists a whole new sweet world of truth and freedom here once you spit the salty taste of the cult out of your mouth.

Brian the sugar ant


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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 17:27:32 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: S Glade
Subject: Get real, Sonny
Message:
Thing is Jim, premies don't 'think' about M all day we just get off on the high of being alive and dig M because he never talks about anything else.

All you need is positive reinforcement, is that it? Maharaji says life is beautiful, and you just go, 'Yeah, cool man, dig it!!' Really? Get real. It takes a little more than that to get my motor running, but that's just me, I guess.

Quite a unique guy actually.

Actually, there's quite a few just like him. They're called cult leaders. But for some reason, every cult member thinks their cult leader happens to be so unique. You should check out the others, Sonny. I think you'll find a lot of similarties. For one thing, there isn't a one of them that encourages critical analysis of them or their dumbass message which is, basically, 'Jump for joy! I'M here!.' Whoopee! Eh, Sonny? Hahaha!

Guess well see you back on LG where the vibes are great and the conversations are stimulating and diverse.

Diverse? What's diverse about reciting the same pablum over and over ad nauseum? I don't think 'diverse' is the word you're looking for, Sonny. In fact, diversity is the last thing you'd be interested in. Isn't it all just about saying how great life is again and again and again? Where's the diversity?

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:03:58 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: wwilliam@kumc.edu
To: Everyone
Subject: I owe Pat C. ten dollars
Message:
I've heard from David Johnson again and he again insisted that he has never posted as 'Fred.' I have also learned that David and Fred posted from different continents, so I am now faced with little choice but to admit that I was wrong. (Sorry, Nigel). In my own defense, I wish to point out that there were some uncanny similarities in the two major posts by Fred and David. What can I say? - I've been duped before.

***

Pat Dear,

Please email me a mailing address for you and the $10.00 check will be in the mail. As an alternative, perhaps Thelma could give me ten lashes?

***

I found David Johnson's last email to be a very good summary of how a premie continues to be a student of Maharaji even after reading the ex-premie website for three hours straight. Here is the Basic Premie Rationale, paraphrased from David's words:

(1)Knowledge is a feeling of the heart. Logically it makes no sense, so a premie must choose the feeling of the heart over cold rationality.

(2)Logical debate between different people with different perspectives about Knowledge is useless, since the experience of that feeling is individual and completely personal.

(3)Michael Dettmers cannot be trusted. Dettmers and other ex-PAMS were not very trustworthy when they were big honchos and they are even less trustworthy now. They have personal agendas and they should be given NO credibility.

(4)Maharaji will be criticised no matter what he does. (This one is actually true, but the premie takes this stance to ignore the criticisms, even the possibly valid ones).

(5)Maharaji's message has nothing to do with lifestyle, his or mine.

(6)I have had too many experiences of joy around Maharaji, and Knowledge still brings tears of joy to my eyes.

(7)I would have been dead long ago without Maharaji.

So there it is, folks, the mystery of continued-premieness is solved. The above is how they do it, seven easy steps. The premie world-view remains intact and internally consistent with itself. From that perspective, exes are those unfortunates who have lost that feeling and who are now lost in negativity. There is now one more thing to be grateful to Rawat about and all the more reason to run to his feet whenever he calls.

One other thing that David said was more personal to himself, but I think a lot of premies share in this. He said that when he practices he settles down and feels such love that he has no questions, but other people perceive him to be a cold fish. Premies, especially at their own video events, appear to be quite cold and distant. They do not freely share the love that they feel with those around them. They feel superior and they feel that human love is secondary and inferior to the love that they have with Maharaji and Knowledge. This is one of the most telling 'fruits' of Maharaji's 'work' in this world. Certainly the love they feel cannot be shared with non-premies, but even among themselves, they must be careful not to become too enamored of each other. As we know from the spouces who have visited EPO, even spouces come in second place.

So guys, our work is cut out for us! Onward and upward! The premie fortress is strong, no doubt. A few walls may have crumbled under our attack, but none of the main supports have weakened. Our attacks have made the occasional hit, producing a hole big enough for a few escapees, but then it is quickly patched up. Now and then, there are defectors who make their escape without our help. But we must redoubled our efforts, make new strategies, perfect our methods. It is up to us to save the world from the scourge of jujuism. Whatever we do, we must never just walk! We must stay the course and fight, till the war is won. Prempal still says he is confident in his ultimate victory. Well, he hasn't seen nothin yet!

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:50:09 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Maybe he plagarized
Message:
Way:

Don't be too hard on yourself. I think one of them either cut-n-pasted or plagarized, and there was even a Voyeur in one of those threads that had a similar voice. And the 30-years with knowledge thing. Three similar posts.

--f

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:45:06 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Way and Pat
Subject: Well sorry and wrong about Voyeur
Message:
Seems to be a bone fide ex, with funny stories about Anne Johnson to boot.

Down to two. Probably just plagarizing? Whatever.

==f

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:26:00 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: I owe Pat C. ten dollars - not anymore
Message:
This post of yours was worth every penny. In fact this clause alone was worth ten bucks:

''.....other people perceive him to be a cold fish....''

How true of the church ladies of San Francisco. Not only are they anally retentive, stiff, reserved, cold, calculating and bureaucratic but they don't have any sense of humor either.

I kept telling them that they would never get any aspirants because the fact is that they are not open to loving new people. They live in an impenetrable shell, close-minded, solipsistic and uncompromising. All new people have to bend and shape themselves to fit the premie paradigm. Not the way to make new friends.

PS If you don't feel that your debt has been discharged put it in escrow and I'll use on our next wager.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:26:32 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: How gracious!
Message:
Pat,

Thank you for clearing me of my indebtedness to you. I will consider things even between us.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:22:54 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: The brick wall - or impenetrable bubble
Message:
I've been reading some of the premie posts on Lifes Great and on here, and I find them depressing and exhausting. The points you made above are very good - I could think of a few more - but they all point to a sort of self-referential reality or absolutely closed belief system. (For example, read Ivette's post on ELK below in which she attributes human kindness to Maharaji's grace.)

Anyway, not exactly sure why I'm saying this - except that I agree with Chuck that I'm not into banging my head against a brick wall! But I also feel it's important to defend this site against any brick wall which might seek to fall on it.

Take care, Way -
Katie

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 10:55:06 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: When is rawat going to post here?
Message:
So rawat reads the forum?
If he does, one day he would want to post here, of course anonymous. he would want to try to prove his superiority, to try to make some ultimate point which would bring us back in the fold. I wonder who would spot him first.
It would be a cataclysmic experience for him, because I don't think he would last one thread!

MAHARAJ JI , TRY US IF YOU DARE!!

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:47:53 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: He won't post ever - no confidence.
Message:
I cannot imagine M being able to communicate with anyone who did not worship him. The insular world in which he lives allows zero opportunities for normal communication between two human beings.

Example: I recall one talk, where M told the story of when he was in flight training. One of his classmates asked him (by starting a conversation I would guess) why he always wore suits when the rest of the students wore casual, relaxed clothes. His arrogant and off-putting response was 'Because I can afford to wear suits.' I remember that being a huge 'drip' for me and thought, what's with this guy, can't he have the decency to chat with the other pilot?

So, I am completely sure he would never lower himself to addressing thinking people who were not devotees. I think he is actually incapable because he has no personal confidence in public.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:58:24 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: He won't post ever - no confidence. Nail on head
Message:
All of his pompous puffed up arrogance comes from the power others give him. In reality he is a wimp with very little sense of self-confidence or self-assuredness. All of a sudden I feel sorry for him. He is such a straw man.
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:22:54 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Bob
Subject: In A Way, He Already Is
Message:
Since most of the posts here are incomprehesible to me, I'd say that he at least has influence here. He is the patron saint of bad English, IMO.

Steve

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:42:38 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: Why would he want to!?
Message:
I wouldn't if I were him (but maybe that doesn't prove anything!). There is a poster here (who I won't name) who used to think EVERYONE anonymous was Rawat - personally, I don't think he's ever posted here, and doubt that he will.

Take care, Bob -
Katie

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:32:27 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: Why wouldn't you?
Message:
I wouldn't if I were him (but maybe that doesn't prove anything!).

Why wouldn't you post here if you were him?

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:41:03 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Isn't it obvious? Why WOULD you if you were him?nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:44:56 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: I don't know. Right thing to do maybe? (nt)
Message:
dddddd
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:47:56 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: How often does M do the 'right thing'? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:51:48 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Beats me --- never?
Message:
Katie,

I think the whole point of putting yourself in someone's shoes hypothetically is to describe what you, in your judgement would do in certain circumstances. Otherwise, you're not talking about what you would do if you were them but are merely saying what you think they will or would do.

Always happy to help :)

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:01:49 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Sorry, that ain't how I do it... (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:19:19 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: Maybe
Message:
Maybe he thinks that the only time the lamb is going to lay down with the wolves is after they've eaten it and it's in their stomachs. In that case, he's not going to be in a hurry to jump over the compound wall and come and play with us.

Anth, We'll DOB DOB DOB.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:40:11 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: AJW
Subject: Tribute To Lord Baden-Powell
Message:
This one's a good history.

Check the links on this one - some neat photos.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:35:52 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Tribute To Lord Baden-Powell II
Message:
I just read this and it brought tears to my eyes:

Baden-Powell's Last Message
Towards the end of his life, although still in comparatively good health, he prepared a farewell message to his Scouts for publication after his death. It read:

'Dear Scouts - if you have ever seen the play 'Peter Pan' you will remember how the pirate chief was always making his dying speech because he was afraid that possible, when the time came for him to die, he might not have time to get it off his chest. It is much the same with me, and so, although I am not at this moment dying, I shall be doing so one of these days and I want to send you a parting word of goodbye.

Remember, it is the last time you will ever hear from me, so think it over. I have had a most happy life and I want each one of you to have a happy life too.

I believe that God put us in this jolly world to be happy and enjoy life. Happiness does not come from being rich, nor merely being successful in your career, nor by self-indulgence. One step towards happiness is to make yourself healthy and strong while you are a boy, so that you can be useful and so you can enjoy life when you are a man.

Nature study will show you how full of beautiful and wonderful things God has made the world for you to enjoy. Be contented with what you have got and make the best of it. Look on the bright side of things instead of the gloomy one.

But the real way to get happiness is by giving out happiness to other people. Try and leave this world a little better than you found it and when your turn comes to die, you can die happy in feeling that at any rate you have not wasted your time but have done your best. 'Be Prepared' i this way, to live happy and to die happy - stick to your Scout Promise always - even after you have ceased to be a boy - and God help you to do it.

Your friend,

Signed here

With the compliments from: The Public Relations Department at Baden-Powell House, London, England courtesy of Simon Pearce, Author of ScoutNet UK - THE Scouting Web Pages

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:06:47 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Question For All Pwk's
Message:
Nature study will show you how full of beautiful and wonderful things God has made the world for you to enjoy.

Do you pwk's really believe that Maharaji aka Guru Maharaji aka Balyogeshwar aka Prem Pal Singh Rawat aka God knows what else created nature? Or showed you the beauty of nature? Or showed you anything besides his chest when dancing with the mala?

Steve

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 17:04:25 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Now there was a proper Guru Steve, uniforms too.nt
Message:
anth the no text
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:26:13 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Now there was a proper Guru Steve, uniforms too
Message:
whose design was based on the Boer Kommandos' drag which BP saw when he fought with the Brits in the Anglo-Boer War in South Africa. And he also loved little boys - a lot.
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 05:54:23 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Latest wisdom from Maharaji
Message:
Edited excerpt, Maharaji in Tokyo 22nd October 2000

I'm not talking to your mind. I have nothing to teach your mind. Never did, never will. Why are you bringing a stranger between us? I'm talking to your heart. We don't need an arbitrator. We don't need somebody to negotiate what is being said. Nor do we need a translator. Let one heart understand what the other heart is saying. Because that's who I talk to.

Copyright © 2000-2001 Visions International

So what are premies supposed to do when listening to Maharaji's words? Why does he even use words? Why not simply sit there silently and allow the heart to heart communication to happen (I assume this communication doesn't use words). Then at least the mind wouldn't be able to apply reason when thinking about the bullshit he comes out with.

John.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:32:01 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Why does he even use words?
Message:
Another Living Perfect Master, Adi Da, sometimes arrives at an intimate satsang gathering and then just gives silent darshan instead. One devotee tells the story of his first satsang/darshan, where the Master entered the room and just sat there with his eyes open and his mouth shut. Everything was silent. Occasionally, some devotee in the room would start to weep quietly. Othertimes, there would be a loud outburst of emotion capable of shaking the soul. All the while, Da's espression would ever-so-slightly change in unreadable ways. The newcomer spent his time trying to gauge his own inner feeling and trying not to second guess whether DA was bored or not.

I've oftened thought that being with the Living Perfect Master in different situations could be so comical that it would make quite a good sitcom. Imagine the Lord of the Universe coming into a restaurant and being constantly fawned over by a group of his lovers and the other patrons not having a clue what's going on. Most premies are completely tongue-tied when they are around their Lord. One premie I know attended a party with her Lord about five years ago. Rawat and Marilyn came up to her. She didn't know what to say so she informed Mr. and Mrs. Lord that she shared the same birthday with Marilyn. As soon as she said it, she wanted to disappear. Rawat joked that Marilyn was a lot older, and they quickly moved on to their next quaking guest.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:27:11 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Maybe he's talking to Pia
Message:
Just sent this to Pia:

Pia,

How can you reconcile your:

... call for people who know Maharaji and who practice Knowledge to join me in speaking out to set the record straight and show how the picture being painted by those who call themselves 'ex-premies' is both false and irresponsible.

with Maharaji's own policy of avoiding 'the mind' altogether?:

I'm not talking to your mind. I have nothing to teach your mind. Never did, never will. Why are you bringing a stranger between us? I'm talking to your heart. We don't need an arbitrator. We don't need somebody to negotiate what is being said. Nor do we need a translator. Let one heart understand what the other heart is saying. Because that's who I talk to.

Looks like someone needs to get a little synchronized, doesn't it?

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:36:15 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Hi John (ot) Latvian stuff.
Message:
Hi John,

It looks like we really fucked up. We missed a Latvian night in London, where everyone wore mini-skirts. (see Mini mini Latvian thread below)

Can we organise another one soon? I'm sure Hamzen and and Jethro would be up for it.

Anth, I'll have to get some new stockings.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:08:49 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Hi John (ot) Latvian stuff.
Message:
Just make the date far enough in advance so I can purchase a ticket to Heathrow.


Marianne

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 22:09:59 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: That must mean...
Message:
...that you want to be in the video, not just buy a copy.

Anth the quiet on set please.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 08:28:18 (GMT)
From: bp
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Latest wisdom from Maharaji
Message:
Edited excerpt, Maharaji in Tokyo 22nd October 2000
I'm not talking to your mind. I have nothing to teach your mind. Never did, never will. Why are you bringing a stranger between us? I'm talking to your heart. We don't need an arbitrator. We don't need somebody to negotiate what is being said. Nor do we need a translator. Let one heart understand what the other heart is saying. Because that's who I talk to.

Copyright © 2000-2001 Visions International

John,
what's bullshit for some is wisdom for others. He can't please everybody's tastes all the time. Me, I just take in the ideas that benefit me. Same as I would listening to anybody.

but you ARE onto something about his not needing to speak, just communicate heart to heart.

actually, he often does that. But you have to be able to tune in to your own heart. Thats the BEST time. I guess its just a fact of life that minds need something to focus on while the hearts dance.

xbruce

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 10:45:41 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: bp
Subject: Definition of 'the heart'
Message:
We all think we know what the metaphorical expression 'the heart' means, in fact , WHEN there are strong feelings of love, everyone knows what we're talking about.
BUT...
It cannot be turned around!!
When an ex-premie, or most regular people would listen to rawat, their 'heart' will hear a little creep shouting inconsistencies. Most premies would argue that is 'the mind'. However it is 'the heart' closing up and redirecting the attention. (alarm going off: beware, cult alert!)
So listening with the heart means here: Only for pre-programmed, with predictable response.
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:15:33 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: Cult jargon
Message:
When Maharaji talks about listening with the heart, it's akin to Pavlov ringing bells to get his dogs salivating. Too crude? Actually, I think I'm being kind. At least Pavlov's dogs got a meal out of it. What do premies get? All we got was the bell that told us it was time to grin stupidly and pretend that Maharaji had just said the most important thing a guy could ever say, that he was SPEAKING FROM HIS HEART!! Oh me, oh my! Maharaji's speaking from his heart! Why, that must mean he's God or something! And if you want to know how I know he's speaking from his heart, well, he says so, that's how! Who would ever doubt it?
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 10:33:23 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: bp
Subject: Latest wisdom from Maharaji
Message:
So let me get this straight, bp, if Maharaji would be struck dumb tomorrow you'd still understand him loud and clear. You'd still know that 'what you are looking for is within you'. He wouldn't have to say a word. In fact, he'd have never had to say it at all. You'd still know what it was all about. Sounds like telepathy to me. And don't kid yourself, bp. You love Maharaji because of who you think he is. If you didn't think of him the way you do, I doubt your heart would be all aflutter as you claim.
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:35:27 (GMT)
From: bp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Latest wisdom from Maharaji
Message:
So let me get this straight, bp, if Maharaji would be struck dumb tomorrow you'd still understand him loud and clear.You'd still know that 'what you are looking for is within you'.

Sure. Same if I became deaf. (He could always do the Meher Baba slate thing, but then why write on a slate when you can talk?)
Seriously though, I've been confirming it for myself for a bloody long time. Thats really the only 'proof' there is.

He wouldn't have to say a word. In fact, he'd have never had to say it at all. You'd still know what it was all about.

I'd rather not get into hypotheticals, but ok,just this once.

I know very little of what 'its about' from what he said or says. Rather, what he says inspires me to look within myself and to keep looking. Its THAT INNER practice which gives the connection from which stems the fulfillment and understanding.What M. says could be true or not true. Very easy to doubt anything.There is no doubting my own experience.

Sounds like telepathy to me.

suit yourself. To me, telepathy implies thoughts and ideas. M. can be brilliant with these, but the most significant interchange is on a deeper level.

And don't kid yourself, bp. You love Maharaji because of who you think he is. If you didn't think of him the way you do, I doubt your heart would be all aflutter as you claim

you're barking up the wrong tree here Jerry. Curious that you think you know me more than I know myself.Anyway,couple of things to set you straight.

i) I don't 'love Maharaji' in the way you imply. I do connect to a profound feeling of 'love' which is within me. This happens when I practice, and I don't think much about M. at all.

ii)When M is physically present, usually (but not always)I experience this love without consciously practising, and become aware that M. is somehow the embodyment/mouthpiece of this love.
This, I assure you, is a state of consciousness, not something I believe in or think up.

iii)I suppose that if I never listened to or saw M, again,knew the techniques and could inspire myself to keep practicing, perhaps I would continue to have a nice experience . But I really enjoy listening to him and being around him. Its a lot of fun.
cheers
xbp

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 16:52:27 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: bp
Subject: Latest wisdom from Maharaji
Message:
Rather, what he says inspires me to look within myself and to keep looking.

Then this contradicts your contention that he doesn't have to say anything. How would he inspire you if he just sat there and said nothing?

What M. says could be true or not true. Very easy to doubt anything.There is no doubting my own experience.

Actually, if what M says conforms to your experience, than what he's saying is true, not false. On the other hand, if Maharaji is talking about things that DON'T conform to your experience, than what he's saying is false. But that's a long way from him having to say nothing, or anything at all neither here nor there, and you understanding, nonetheless. That's just weird talk, fella. Maharaji HAS to say SOMETHING that you can identify with. Otherwise, it's jibberish.

To me, telepathy implies thoughts and ideas. M. can be brilliant with these, but the most significant interchange is on a deeper level.

But there still has to be a reason why you and he would connect on such a deep level. If it's not things he says, than what is it? The way he wears his ties? Or more seriously, would it be because of the experience you have practicing K? If that's the case, how does Maharaji figure into that? I could never quite figure that.

I don't 'love Maharaji' in the way you imply. I do connect to a profound feeling of 'love' which is within me. This happens when I practice, and I don't think much about M. at all.

Than why would you go to great lengths to see him? I'm going to assume that you've done a great deal of travelling to see Maharaji and have used up a substantial ammount of resources to, including time and money. What is it about Maharaji that inspires you to do it if you can tap into that love without thinking about him at all?

When M is physically present, usually (but not always)I experience this love without consciously practising, and become aware that M. is somehow the embodyment/mouthpiece of this love.
This, I assure you, is a state of consciousness, not something I believe in or think up.

How do you suppose he does this? What is it about him, in particular, that you would have such a dramatic shift in consciousness just by being in his presense? i'll be honest with you, bp, I've never had such an experience myself, either in Maharaji's presense or while meditating. I was just a dumbo who figured one day I would. So I stuck around. Guess I just couldn't think of anything better to do.

I suppose that if I never listened to or saw M, again,knew the techniques and could inspire myself to keep practicing, perhaps I would continue to have a nice experience . But I really enjoy listening to him and being around him. Its a lot of fun.
cheers
xbp

If you say so, bp. I just hope you're having as much fun as you say you are. I'll only say, if you are, that you and me are as different as night and day. I was more bored and frustrated as a premie than anything.

But, one more thing. Because of that, I'm now a free individual, no longer dependent upon some Christ figure I made out of Maharaji to help me get through in life. I think it's dangerous when somebody becomes that important in our lives, especially when, like Maharaji, he discourages critical thought of him. That can only imprison a person's mind. And to be true, when you imprison someone's mind, you've imprisoned the person, as well. Maharaji doesn't seem to have any concept that this is the risk he's taking by commanding that all doubt be removed from our minds. He should instead be encouraging people to hold onto their doubts until they've got good reason to relinquish them. Instead, his command is to bury them , to treat them as Satan, incarnate. That's not what I'd call healthy advice, bp, and really, to anyone honest enough to face it, does a lot to discredit Maharaji.

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 02:26:40 (GMT)
From: bp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Latest wisdom from Maharaji
Message:
Rather, what he says inspires me to look within myself and to keep looking.
Then this contradicts your contention that he doesn't have to say anything. How would he inspire you if he just sat there and said nothing?

There are other means of inspiration besides words. But lets leave hypotheticals. Can't see him losing his voice in th near future!

What M. says could be true or not true. Very easy to doubt anything.There is no doubting my own experience.

Actually, if what M says conforms to your experience, than what he's saying is true, not false. On the other hand, if Maharaji is talking about things that DON'T conform to your experience, than what he's saying is false. But that's a long way from him having to say nothing, or anything at all neither here nor there, and you understanding, nonetheless. That's just weird talk, fella. Maharaji HAS to say SOMETHING that you can identify with. Otherwise, it's jibberish.

M. talks about a lot of things. Most of what he says I can agree with and find inspiring. Some of what he says I feel neutral about, a small amount I don't agree with. What I choose to focus on is my choice.

To me, telepathy implies thoughts and ideas. M. can be brilliant with these, but the most significant interchange is on a deeper level.

But there still has to be a reason why you and he would connect on such a deep level. If it's not things he says, than what is it? The way he wears his ties? Or more seriously, would it be because of the experience you have practicing K?

Probably is to do with the experience I have practicing Knowledge. But really its a mystery to me why or how it works. Just know, for me at least, it definitely works.

If that's the case, how does Maharaji figure into that? I could never quite figure that.

me neither

I don't 'love Maharaji' in the way you imply. I do connect to a profound feeling of 'love' which is within me. This happens when I practice, and I don't think much about M. at all.

Than why would you go to great lengths to see him? I'm going to assume that you've done a great deal of travelling to see Maharaji and have used up a substantial ammount of resources to, including time and money. What is it about Maharaji that inspires you to do it if you can tap into that love without thinking about him at all?

Good question Jerry. You're right in that I have used a lot of resources and time getting to be physically close to M. I've seen the most of the World, met lots of wonderful people in the process, and don't regret it for a second.

Jerry, its not the thinking about him that does it. As an analogy its like going for a walk on the beach, which I also do a lot of. By going there, I feel something I like. It also reminds me how good it is. 'Thinking about it' has nothing to do with the actual experience.

When M is physically present, usually (but not always)I experience this love without consciously practising, and become aware that M. is somehow the embodyment/mouthpiece of this love.
This, I assure you, is a state of consciousness, not something I believe in or think up.

How do you suppose he does this? What is it about him, in particular, that you would have such a dramatic shift in consciousness just by being in his presense? i'll be honest with you, bp, I've never had such an experience myself, either in Maharaji's presense or while meditating. I was just a dumbo who figured one day I would. So I stuck around. Guess I just couldn't think of anything better to do.

thats OK. maybe its good that you got 'out'. there is no point people slogging away at K. if its not working for them. I don't have an answer for why it works for some and not others. I suspect its a matter of timing.
I suppose that if I never listened to or saw M, again,knew the techniques and could inspire myself to keep practicing, perhaps I would continue to have a nice experience . But I really enjoy listening to him and being around him. Its a lot of fun.
cheers
xbp

If you say so, bp. I just hope you're having as much fun as you say you are. I'll only say, if you are, that you and me are as different as night and day. I was more bored and frustrated as a premie than anything.

But, one more thing. Because of that, I'm now a free individual, no longer dependent upon some Christ figure I made out of Maharaji to help me get through in life. I think it's dangerous when somebody becomes that important in our lives, especially when, like Maharaji, he discourages critical thought of him. That can only imprison a person's mind. And to be true, when you imprison someone's mind, you've imprisoned the person, as well. Maharaji doesn't seem to have any concept that this is the risk he's taking by commanding that all doubt be removed from our minds. He should instead be encouraging people to hold onto their doubts until they've got good reason to relinquish them. Instead, his command is to bury them , to treat them as Satan, incarnate. That's not what I'd call healthy advice, bp, and really, to anyone honest enough to face it, does a lot to discredit Maharaji

I agree that discouraging critical thoughts is unhealthy.

I've had critical thoughts about M too and am not afraid to voice them. I just don't find them very helpful in the long run.
as when you focus on a criticism it can grow out of all proportion.

I don't agree though that he discourages critical investigation per se. He now urges people to investigate K. for as long as it takes to become sure that this is what they want to practice, and to clear up any doubts they may have beforehand.

Sure perhaps in times gone past, lots of people jumped in without being very aware of what K was and was not. I guess making it too easy was a mistake and confusion was the result for many.

I've been through some times of doubt and confusion in the last thirty years, , but I made the choice to keep giving it a go and it paid off.

Take care.Jerry.
xbruce

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 05:29:15 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Chicken?
Message:
From ELK:

Update on Knowledge Sessions for the Area of South Florida

Aspirants have already met in Hallandale, Miami Beach, and Delray Beach with instructors John Hampton and John Miller in a 'pre-choosing' meeting to determine which of them will be attending a meeting on Friday, 29 June, with Belkis and Charan Anand, who will decide who actually will be receiving Knowledge in the South Florida Knowledge sessions.

God, you'd think they were screeing for eboli contamination or something.

The pre-meetings with John Hampton and John Miller consisted of the showing of three or four videos, a beautiful talk and heartfelt sharing of the experience of Knowledge by the instructors and interviews with each of the aspirants in order to get to a decision on whether they feel they're ready to receive Knowledge, or if they feel they need to have some more time to grow in.

Okay, let me see if I've got this right. These people -- WHO AREN'T BRAINWASHED IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM -- have been going to these meetings for ... how long? They've been watching these same content-less videos for .....how long? And now that they're finally getting down to business and actually talking with what must pass as other human beings, they have to do what again first? They have to watch another 'three of four videos'?? So that ... they're finally ready to ....listen to a 'beautiful talk'? And then, what's that? No, they're not free to finally just be themselves a bit and interact. Rather, they must then take in one last hit of 'heartfelt sharing by the instructors'.

And then -- this is the funniest part -- these poor fucks have to self-criticize in the abstract and they, who supposedly don't know dick about this magical 'Knowledge' (because they don't have it yet, of course), they have to look back into the cult members' staring eyes and what? Speculate? Just take a bit of a guess as to whether or not the've 'grown' enough??!

What a sham on every level! Can you imagine some aspirant coming in, confident, diffident and simply saying, 'yeah, I've heard it all, I want it, I'm ready. I don't need to hear you talk. I don't any more videos. I've got it already for fuck's sake. I'm ready; let's go.' I mean AS IF the aspirants do the choosing! What a sordid little mind fuck.

Each of the events had a break for a most delicious lunch; hors d'oeuvres, chicken and rice, fruit salads, and greens, with varieties of drinks, cookies, crackers and delicacies awaited the aspirants.

Chicken?? AND crackers? Crackers and delicacies? Chicken???

After the Friday, 29 June meeting, those chosen to receive Knowledge will be receiving the gift on the following two days: Saturday, 30 June (for the English-speaking aspirants) and Sunday, 1 July (for the Spanish-speaking ones).

So now these jokers move on to yet ANOTHER two instructors to do it all again??! No, this isn't a cult. I never really thought so. It's just a group of people .... naw, it's a cult alright.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 19:29:28 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm having the fish...
Message:
The vegetables are having the chicken. hahahahaha
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 16:08:20 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: This is torture, psychological abuse aka mind-fuck
Message:
Just reading that gave me knots in my stomach, just remembering the psychological torture the Maharaji cult puts 'aspirants' through. Maharaji is such a liar. Knowledge is NOT freely given. It requires a huge payment of the destruction of confidence in seeing bullshit, self-esteem, and you have to go through a Kafka-esque trial, in which there are no objective standards, whatsoever, about who is 'ready' and who isn't. It's madness.

Then, once you get it, you spend the next 20 years, or however long you remained brainwashed, getting excuses as to why knowledge doesn't work.

What a pathetic, destructive trip. They ought to be reported to the International Commission on Human Rights.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:06:12 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Today: Crackers; Day 2: Nuts; Day 3: Fruitcake?(nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:11:22 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Start off, chicken, end up, a delicacy NT
Message:
ffffff
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 10:51:38 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: That's only part of the story Jim.
Message:
We shouldn't forget about those who came along too, but got a whiff of 'cult' and left.

There are those who smelled 'cult' when they were first invited to a video by the wierd veggie at work with a sickly smile and relationship problems.

There were those who smelled 'cult' when they saw the 'Flowers, Waterfalls and Waffle' video at the introductory programme they went to with their friend, to find out what they were into.

There were those who smelled 'cult' when they were invited to a 'meeting' with an instructor.

There were those who smelled 'cult' when they realised, when a premie talks, the words 'God' and 'Maharaji' mean the same thing.

So, by the time the handful of open-hearted, guillable bozos are ready to meet the Belkiss, Holy Mother of Belsize Park, the loonies, extremely guillable, and those coming down off drugs, will be the only ones left.

The final meeting is to sift out those who stumbled into a video when they were on acid, of coming down from a weekend on Ecstasy and Skunk.

Also, I suspect there are people who, walking down a street and seeing a poster adverting a free meeting of anything at all, will go in and join. If they need to believe something to be part of the group they will believe. I think there's always a bunch of these folk around too. They don't stay forever though. One day they see another poster and off they go again, a sort of 2 dimensional version of 'Zelig'.

Anth the cabin fever.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 08:23:15 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The final ring of fire to face: Belkis Shah
Message:
The divine battle-axe from hell with enough liquid nitrogen running through her bureaucratic brainwashed zombie veins to freeze the balls off a polar bear. This is one cold and calculating fanatical Mirabai of a schoolmarm, a guru-worshipping governess/nanny cloned from the DNA of a nazi officer at Auschwitz. All that's missing from this mother Kali is the mala of skulls and the sword. You know she would kill for Guru Thick and Chunky Ragu. With the likes of her and Herr Schmidtz running the cult who needs kool-aid? On second thoughts....

I guess you can tell I don't like her very much.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 16:09:56 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: You really bug me Pat...
Message:
I can't understand why you always beat around the bush and don't tell us exactly what you think. ::))

I don't think I ever met that woman and I'm quite glad of that.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:07:25 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Sorry, Joe. I just can't stand dominatrixes
Message:
without class. Last time I saw her was when Andy was an aspirant and I was sticking up for him and she threatened to throw me out. I've known her since London in 73 and have always wanted to see what she looked like in fishnet tights and a cat-o-nine-tails.

Actually she may just be the reincarnation of one of Savanarola's fanatical nuns saying the rosary while heretics' intestines popped and sizzled on the fire. Herr Schmidtz is of course the reincarnation of Savanarola and may yet be burned at his own stake as that monk was.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:11:39 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Sounds like an objective description to me Pat.
Message:
Those eyes, so beautiful and enticing. Start to sway forward for a second and you can feel her teeth in your neck.

For a fat, hetro, over the hill, old fart like myself, she's the stuff fantasies that take place in dungeons and leather are made of.

'Yes Belkiss. I have been a bad premie. A very bad premie. Yes, I wrote bad things on the Internet against the Lord. Punish me.'

(PS, If the Elan Vital forum monitors are still doing their difficult service, and having to read this disgusting, hate filled, faggotty, fucked-up, filth, flowly, free, far and wide, and inform, mighty cult honchos of their brief fame here, tell Belkiss, if she'd like to meet up with me next time she's in town, I'd be happy to got to dinner and maybe she could persuade me to reconsider my philosophical stance as hate-filled, lie-spinning slave of Satan.)

'What. Yes Dot. No. I'm just on the internet. No. On the forum. Yes, it's a bit of anti-cult stuff I'm writing. OK love, I'll be there in a minute.'

Anth, the loony babbling bongo who could have been a contender. Beware premies. If you stop practising knowledge, you too could end up like this.

God, this is a living hell. Where's the vodka, where's the heroin, where's my rusty syringe, where's my pornography? Where's my teddy bear and Barbie doll? Where are the hamsters and donkey. (I should never have clicked the dancing Lord's crotch at the House of eDrek). Aaagh, maggots, flames, I'm in hell, if only I could remember the techniques, but I erased my memory smoking hash. Oh no. It's all my fault. Here comes another demon. No, not another pitchfork up the arse.

I'm sorry Captain, (sob, sob,) Forgive me. Somebody get me a pen and a standing order. I'll repent publicly on 'It Ain't So'.

Time for my medecine.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:29:39 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: AJW
Subject: Sounds like you're demonizing her, Anth
Message:
Look - Anne Johnson was demonized in the 70's and now everybody on the Forum talks about her in glowing terms. Let's face it Anth, demons are like movie stars - they come into and out of style.

Steve the critic.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 17:07:24 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: But for me Steve,
Message:
the crack of the whip will never go out of style.

And who's been singing the praises of Iron Knickers Johnson?

Anth the cottonpants

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:59:00 (GMT)
From: Voyeur
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Anne Johnson
Message:
I want to stand up and be counted! I do not talk or think of Anne Johnson in glowing terms nor have I observed her being talked about in that way on this forum. As Anth observed Belkis, the Holy Mother of Belsize Park came from the same training camp as Anne Johnson. As I have commented before I got struck off the 'ashram drivers list' at Ealing as I lived in the community and had a good car, because I refused to drive in a dangerous manner so she could get back five minutes earlier and I could get a ticket on the Great West Road. Pity the poor ashram premies in Ealing when she stayed there, she operated a reign of terror as far as I could see.
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 16:21:21 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Voyeur
Subject: Anne Johnson
Message:
One thing about Anne, was that she was very much living in the role of a subservient woman. If you were a man, and told her to shut up, she did. She got what she wanted by being the Mother Superior or mege-Mom to a bunch of youngsters newly away from their own mums.

She didn't know that she was considered a joke by the other Initiators, and I think by Maharaji too. They made fun of her all the time.

Anne wasn't completely blameless, however. She used the terror she could inflict to get things she, Anne, wanted, while all the time claiming to be a selfless servent of Maharaji. These things included, clothes, luggage, nice dinners at nice restaurants, trinkets, clothes, personal services like ironing, etc., clothes, and yes, clothes, really nice, very expensive, designer clothes.

She paid for all that though. She felt incredibly guilty for abandoning her family to be in a cult, and hence most of that was compensation. Then she paid further by living a poverty-stricken life after Maharaji dumped the initiators in the 80s, and then later having mercy on Anne, allowing her to do slave labor at the 'residence' doing laundry into her old age.

It's all a pathetically sad story.

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 00:10:04 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I remember Anne Johnson.
Message:
And don't much cherish the memory.

She was staying with a married premie couple who made their house available while Anne ran a couple of aspirant weekends (I was one such hopeful aspirant). This couple freely fed, housed, and cleaned after Ms Johnson, putting their own lives on hold - assuming they had lives (?) – for the duration.

Anyway, she was sitting on this cushion in that inimitable way, silky scarf thing round her just so, flicking her hair back elegantly, doing this half-lotus pose where one foot was tucked under her with the other leg crooked so that second leg’s ankle rested on first leg’s knee. (Remember that?). And she was giving us all this timeless, long, horrible and heavy-duty aspirant satsang when she broke off and called for a glass of water (for herself). The premie wife dutifully brought in a jug and glass on a tray a few minutes later, but, because this premie was obviously frightened of Anne, she wobbled slightly as she negotiated the bodies and cushions which bedecked the floor of her own front room. The water spilled a couple of drips, thankfully causing no damage whatsoever to the carpet or Anne Johnston's fragile sensitivities.

The deeply ashamed premie tip-toed out, red-faced, with a whispered ‘Oops – sorry..’ but not before Anne had informed the rest of us:

'See what happens when you're not properly focused on Holy Name'.

(To think I never noticed this was a cult...)

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 10:06:43 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Anne Johnson, the worst guest in the world.
Message:
Hi Nigel,

She came to dinner at our house in Brixton once. The next thing I heard it was featuring in one of her satsang stories, as this nightmare place where she could have ended up if she stayed with her husband.

(Dot thought she had a good point.)

Ungrateful cow.

Anth the stuff nightmares are made of.

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 04:02:02 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: I got knowledge off Anne Johnson.
Message:
Don't get me started on her!!

Went down to Leicester (October 24th 1977) to get Knowledge with a couple of others from manchester. The weekend before, she had thrown some poor sap out of the k session because he had a hole in his sock -showed disrespect or some such nonesense - so on our way to the premie house where the session was to be held, we all stopped at this little haberdashery shop in the High Street and bought new socks! Lord knows what the shopkeeper thought of 6 shiny young persons all buying a pair of socks from him at 8 in the morning, then doffing shoes outside to change into them!

During the session I complained, ingrate that I am, of having trouble with the music technique because of having lost half of one of my thumbs as a kid - got a wide stump just above the knuckle and couldn't get it in my lughole. She told me Guru Maharaj Ji is Perfect - and I was probably born with a deformed ear to match! What an ass!

She refused me first time round because - get this - I failed the Food Purity quiz. By this I mean even though I could honestly say I was vegetarian, I still lived with my carniverous parents and USED THE SAME PANS! She went on and on about the need for complete purity in our lives if we were to be ready to....you know the drill, dangle the carrot a bit higher.

Do you remember the weird reaction she had to raw cauliflower? Whenever she ate it she started up with these bizarre squeeky hiccups, sometimes in the middle of giving satsang. Or how about her standing on a chair in the ashram to run her white-gloved finger across the top of the doorframe, then having us spend the rest of the day cleaning......we used to call her the White Tornado, after a TV ad for washing powder at the time.

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:07:25 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: I knew Anne way back when
Message:
Anne and I go back to Lowther when she was just a lowly neurotic housewife turned ashram premie, trying to assert herself among the small DLM 'matriarchy' that ran the show in Canada until '73 (Susan Butcher, Helen Mclelland, Claire Tremblay, etc.). Anne was always this little freak -- no question about it. She loved me because a) I was so loveable and b) I don't know. I guess I didn't take her too seriously or something.

What you have to remember to make any sense of Anne is that Maharaji completely fostered this notion that there were indeed 'special' premies, premies who, by his grace, their karma or some combination, were truly purer, higher, etc. Anne strived tobe such because, if I recall correctly, Maharaji set her up to think she was. I mean, what premie WOULDN'T have been a sucker for that shit?

Anyway, I remember this one day when Anne was crying all hurt and dejected, plopped on the floor of the ashram. Can't remember the problem, something along the lines of she wasn't getting much respect or good service or something. I gave her some nominal generic satsang and that was pretty well that.

Years later when she was elevated to living saint status (i.e. mahatma a/k/a initiator a/k/a instructor) she just came into her own in a weird sense. It was as if Maharaji had endorsed her quirky tough guy Betty Davis angel stuff. She was out of control.

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 14:41:37 (GMT)
From: Voyeur
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I knew Anne way back when
Message:
Seeing as I was the one who started this latest round of 'Anne Johnson bashing' - well deserved in my opinion because of the misery she caused (and not to me but to those I saw her come in contact with) - I am wondering about starting a thread for everyone to include the worst stories they have about Anne Johnson (every one who came into contact with her has one!). But the Forum Administrator might have something to say about that....
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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 18:22:31 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Voyeur
Subject: Anne, and compensation for failure
Message:
I actually grew to like Anne, in her old weird way, but only after I refused to take anything she said seriously. As housefather in Chicago I once told her to shut up and go to her room. She did. She was bitching about being transported in an inappropriate car and I suggested she take the subway and handed her fare tokens. She looked at me and stopped complaining.

After that, she kind of confided in me. She felt incredible guilt over abandoning her family, but felt it was appropriate because she felt she was a terrible mother. Once she told me she used to beat her kids, or something like that. Maharaji and the hierarchy of the cult were compensation for her. It was a serious attempt to repress her previous life. She was actually a very sad person, and quite miserable most of the time.

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 18:35:27 (GMT)
From: Voyeur
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Anne, and compensation for failure
Message:
I saw all that in my two close encounters with her. The first at a knowledge review she asked some questions which being an honest Joe (no pun intended) I answered and she did a minor display of what I now term 'inappropriate behavior', which I totally ignored (I had 'the knowledge' so she couldn't harm me) and the other when I was driving her when I pulled the car over and told her that I was not going to exceed the speed limit and she could I either travel with me at that speed or get out and walk. She went very quiet and we drove on. I now accept that everyone is responsible for their own lives and actions, but I couldn't understand why everyone 'fell at her feet' and were in thrall to her. That's life I guess!
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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 19:12:05 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Voyeur
Subject: The concept of surrender
Message:
Anne used this theory, which Jagdeo, by the way, also espoused, that since the Mahatma/Initiator belonged to Maharaji, 'service' and subservience to the Initiator, was service to Maharaji. Many premies bought that nonsense, and hence some of the Initiators were able to cash in on that. Anne was just an extreme case.

Also, for the ashram premies, at some point Maharaji put the Initiators 'in charge' of the ashrams, so, in addition the saintly status as initiators, they also theoretically had the power to kick you out of the ashram, harrass you in other ways making your life even more miserable, or get you sent to an ashram in the remote provinces, some place like Tucson or Fayetteville. So there was that as well.

And of course, they could lay it on thick on aspirants, something I'm sure that asshole John Hampton is doing down in Florida as we speak.

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 22:57:06 (GMT)
From: Ian Dury
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Miami mob
Message:
Joe,

There's quite the 'see no evil-hear no evil-speak no evil' thing happening with three Miami-based instructors, John Hampton, John Miller and Ron Coletta.

I don't know if Ron is also involved in the current PRICK (People Recently Interested in Coming to Knowledge) sessions in Miami, but can you imagine having to deal with THAT power-trio of true believers?

Ian

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 20:17:02 (GMT)
From: Voyeur
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The concept of surrender
Message:
Well whatever it was within me didn't quite trust to give everything up and go live in an ashram and be thrown on the street when I was 30 (yes I did have that intuition well before all those people were thrown out on the street - funny how you can be seen as 'out there' and then taken up by these same people when you let them stay in your spare room for awhile while they 'adjust' to the real world and to finding a job with a 10 year gap in their resume).
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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 00:54:23 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: I remember Anne Johnson - fab anecdote, Nigel!
Message:
I remember that half-lotus posture all too well. It happened in the late seventies when His Holeyness did it at one of the instructor trainings and thereafter all that batch of initiators started doing it.

Priceless: ''See what happens when you're not properly focused on Holy Name.''

Oh my god, that sentence captures that era of the Maharajism religion perfectly. What a bunch of drips those divine nuns (of both genders) often were. But, I think people like her (and Belkis and Herr Schmidtz) are still running the cult.

Even Glen Whitewash Whittaker, who at least had a delightful -perhaps feigned working class - northern sense of humor, is a nun. None of this and none of that and let's whitewash all the embarassing bits out especially things like that sentence come to haunt us all from the past.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 07:43:04 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: Underlining really necessary, Jim?
Message:
What's with the fucking underlining, Jim? It makes it harder to read what's written. There's enough crap to read on the Forum without having to slow down and read underlined text.

Steve

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:14:48 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Sorry! My mistake NT
Message:
ggggg
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:15:20 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Yeah. Right On Steve.
Message:
Not to mention those messages that, once you've clicked on them, turn out to say absolutely nothing at all.

Anth the the

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 05:50:10 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A Sap in the System...
Message:
I'm exhausted just reading about this process. It reminds me of that Charlie Chaplin movie (Modern Times?) where he goes round and round these Chernobyl-sized gears, an apt visual metaphor for a sap in the system.

I'm jealous about the *most delicious lunch,* though.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:19:58 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: dreadful guru crapola in my mailbox today
Message:
Why DO they call it VISIONS anyway?

In the mail today was a Visions Int. mailing. Perhaps it is just those out of control premies ruining the ultimate rulers mission again, and trying to control him AGAIN.

Lord knows prem rawat let us know at the northwest usa program
in 2001 that he has to struggle against those willful premies who are trying to manage him from thier mind. I will assume he has seen the light and finally taken control of his work in the last few months, just in time for the 30th anniversary of his leaving behind his education in 9th grade and embraceing ignorance and deception as his career path.

Under the title LEGACY, this comment:
'From east to west, culture to culture, and teacher to student,
in the words and music of those who have sought and attained (??)
a legacy endures.'

Attained what?

And this from the latest premizoid musician, 'Kid's hearts are not being nourished'

As if!

And along with the latest new publications available to fill any leftover space on any premies shelves, this dropping from the bird of paradise himself.
'What about this breath? DONT YOU UNDERSTAND that the most auspicious thing that is happening in your life is this breath?
This is the most auspicious thing, because if this breath stopped. nothing would be auspicious. Nothing. This is the great, great fortune because without this breath, no fortune. No tomorrow.'

As responsible adults, it is time to welcome programs to our towns with handouts to the attendees.
Time for the breath vampire to lose his grip on the last of the undead.

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 22:03:10 (GMT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: bill
Subject: dreadful guru crapola in my mailbox today
Message:
My husband got it, too. And the e-mail daily newsletter comes EVERY day. I thought, briefly, about unsubscribing but didn't. He will have to get to that point himself or it won't make any difference.
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 19:53:45 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: bill
Subject: We got it too...
Message:
We're still on the list, apparently. A very slick brochure.

Amaroo 2001 videos available, four videos, each less than an hour, for $15 each, or get the whole set of four for $50. Some introductory videos, and vids from Madric '92 and Mannheim '95. Some music CD's, and a featured Music Artist, Cara Tower, who performed at Amaroo. Looks like ''featured Artist'' is going to be a monthly feature, in Visions monthly publication.

- ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:15:44 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: oh, please..
Message:
Bill, and the rest of you gang, do me a favor and stop trying to save me already, for Chrissakes!
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:16:08 (GMT)
From: bill-love ya Mili, but
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: you coasted on the outskirts while we served..nt
Message:
fgaga
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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 01:35:32 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: oh, please...Mili - We want to lose you
Message:
Mili,

Why is it that you leave for awhile and come back with ridiculous statements. Did we send you an email? Did we go looking for?

What the fuck are you talking about?

Trying to save you? You flatter yourself.

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 03:20:16 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Why the animosity?
Message:
You don't know me. I don't know you. And yet, you used that four letter word again.

You wouldn't happen to be a member of a hate group now, would you?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:57:32 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Why YOUR animosity?
Message:
Look at all the four -letter words you used.

In the first sentence: Mili uses the following 4-letter words

Bill, rest, gang, stop, save

In the second sentence, drummm rollll

the infamous four-letter word-----yes ladies and gentlemen,
Mili (another 4-letter word???)says hate.

Practice what you preach! Reverend Mili....

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 01:52:16 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: You should be a lawyer, Deborah
Message:
Talk about hitting the nail on the head. You sure have a way of reminding premies of the obvious.
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:46:48 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Mili is a fraudster
Message:
A well documented liar who cannot face the truth about himself.

So Mili's own dishonesty rots him away, poor boy. Now he comes here of his own accord to complain we are trying to save him. As if!

Mili, fess up and get some credibility or get lost, there's a good chap.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 02:46:29 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The fact that 'Life's Great' has nothing to do
Message:
with the inequities and bullshit going on in Maharaji's world and premieland. I resent the implication that unless I am blind, deaf and dumb to those problems, that somehow I am ungrateful for life or am missing some of its greatness. I think it is a moral responsibility to speak up for what one believes is true if people have been hurt or slighted, no matter how unpleasant it might be or how much flak it might draw, if one feel the calling to speak up and get involved. The freedom and ability of human beings to discern and speak up for each other when necessary is one of the things that makes life great.

Funny thing is, Knowledge still makes me feel great whenever I even think about it, let alone practice. I still grapple with the conundrum of how such a great thing can come from/via someone who is as messed up as is advertised herein. That still does not compute.

Still breathing and enjoying it,
Sandy

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:41:33 (GMT)
From: The other side is
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: that perhaps............
Message:
.........he's not as messed up as you've been lead to believe.
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:57:40 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: The other side is
Subject: that perhaps............ (Who goes there?)
Message:
.........he's not as messed up as you've been lead to believe.

****

Who goes there?

I've only been 'led to believe' so much, the rest is factual. Let's cut the cryptic crap and put it on the table or forget about this little chat. What about Jagdeo? The hammer wielding mahatma who 'got away'? The blondes? Is this the behavior of the Superior power in person as you see it?

Is there anything he could do that would shake your faith or are you so 'gone' that it wouldn't matter anymore?

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:57:04 (GMT)
From: Okay but
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: you’re the one who’s confused ........
Message:
.........by a valuable something given by a “messed up” person. My explanation is just that perhaps, perhaps, he’s not messed up after all.

You spent all the facts
And bought just a spin.
Too bad for you
But not for him.

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 04:24:14 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Okay but
Subject: whoever you are...
Message:
You spent all the facts
And bought just a spin.
Too bad for you
But not for him. -anonymous

Dear anonymous,

I heard all the facts
Got taken for a spin
But no matter what
My God is within.

If I search for the truth
And stumble or fall
The promise is that
I won't lose it all.

This ain't a religion
No backsliding here
Just honest soulsearching
And empathy here.

If that is a crime
Then I will do time
In my self-imposed solitude
Writing a rhyme.

If God tells me that
I should not feel the pain
Of my brothers and sisters
I question his reign.

My God always said
To look out for my kind
If that is not cool with him
Then he's in his mind.

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 17:45:46 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Your poem is a jewel, Sandy
Message:
I especially liked the last verse:

''My God always said
To look out for my kind
If that is not cool with him
Then he's in his mind.''

It was the obvious selfishness of Rawat and his PWKs which is the most disgusting thing about the cult.

Thanks.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:40:41 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: that perhaps............ (Who goes there?)
Message:
'You're not receiving me...you're receiving my Knowledge. And Knowledge has no color.'

That helped my confused premie friends alot when questioning all I tell them. They were questioning Knowledge itself - the meditation.

Sure a hundred exes could follow-up with things M has said about him being greater than God or something. But, I prefer to hang onto the above quote.

Kinda like sifting thru the wheat.

Regards,
Elaine

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:02:02 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: oh yeah, that one...crikey!!!!
Message:
Yeah, that one bites me on the ass every time I forget it, about being greater than God. There are definite warnings about this line in scriptures that I seemed to tune out in the glow of whatever...
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:33:54 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Not really
Message:
Sure a hundred exes could follow-up with things M has said about him being greater than God or something. But, I prefer to hang onto the above quote.

Kinda like sifting thru the wheat.

Isn't it really more like sticking your head in the sand?

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:57:43 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Sandy/Elaine - don't other people teach the techs?
Message:
It's my understanding that the knowledge meditation techniques are taught by other teachers - Maharaji doesn't have an exclusive patent on them.
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:08:40 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: The hook that keeps catching me...
Message:
the whole thing about a little child coming from east to west, etc....the even remote prospect that for all the fuckups (what look like fuckups from where we see them), we have a child God on our hands, complete with jets, homes, blondes, dead cyclists, abusive mahatmas and the gold toilets too. Can't seem to shake that possibility, and I know it sounds weird to many, but the Lawd, he woiks in strange waze. Not coming from fear, but rather a very wide open sociological observational point that is not based in science or any exact study.

Weirder thangs than this have happened without explanation...

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 13:32:05 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: The hook that keeps catching me...
Message:
Hi Sandy -
My guiess is that the hook keeps catching you because it's been a pillar of your personal belief system for so long - since before you met Maharaji. It sounds like it's emotional, not rational. I don't really know what to say to you because I cannot relate to that belief, but I know that it's very real for you.

Two suggestions, should you care to take them:
1. Read the stuff J-M has compiled about the Indian background.
2. Don't know if you read my post about learning to live with ambiguity below, but it sounds like that might be helpful to you. The whole concept has been helpful to me - especially realizing ambiguity is something I need to learn to accept.

I think (just my opinion) that you try to hard to explain everything and put it into context. Not faulting you for this, because I do it too - not about spiritual stuff, but about emotional things.

Take care of yourself,
Katie H.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:53:17 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: I strongly agree with Katie about this! NT
Message:
dddddddd
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:32:59 (GMT)
From: bill- ah, sandy, do the
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: FOUR techniques, in order, like the master says.nt
Message:
kjh;jh;
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:39:36 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: bill, you miss the point entirely, but that's OK
Message:
I expected some peripheral flak just showing up. If I know you, and I do, you long for the union of body, mind and spirt too. And he also said the longing can be a more powerful experience than the Knowledge (the sum of the four techniques). Don't be shy now, bill, you want it too. It's OK to seek peace and it's OK to look wherever you think it might be. No blame, no worries.
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:53:37 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: quite the contrary ole boy, I accept reality
Message:
Call me lazy, but below is a post from yesterday.
It could be written better of course, but why bother when you have shown such a tendency to ignore what so many have written to you for years :)

reality is, yogananda was a lying sack of shit.
prem rawat's dad was a mind fucking lying sack of crowned shit.
all the old man did in his talks was twist qoutes from other
confused indians to support his schtick. He was clearly mad.
evolution be damned, we will never outgrow Murphy's Law.
No one will ever have a perfect life, and no one will be without
problems. No one will go from success to success to success.
No one will avoid failure of some form. The dang god will not allow it.

It is the proof of god.

No one attains any state and stays except momentarily, except perhaps those ex's in Her Majesties Kingdom who go to raves and
maintain 'ecxtasy' for hours. All claims to a path to god are
fantasy. The god is there, you are there, no path.
Ignore or interact, the god seems most interested in creativity.
But the door is shut, and those that pretend that we can
enter and become god, or MORE god, are wasting our time pretending.

We dont want to admit boundries, but, reality is, they are there.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:08:09 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: God and creativity
Message:
bill,

You know I have a talent and gift to render with pen and paper the likenesses of people and things. I can relate to what you say about God being into creativity, for when I draw someone I feel very close to the hearth inside and joy wells up inside.
Somewhere in Psalms I think, it says that there is nothing greater than that a person rejoices and finds peace in the work of their hands. I can dig what you said and have epxerienced it.

I can also entertain the idea of no path, no special journey, it's all one thing and it's here now, just tune into it. God IS omnipresent, and our 'journey' is just to settle down and be here now and appreciate the presents in the Presence. I have tasted nectar and felt the Name (for lack of a better word) just from concetrating and doing the right thing in any given moment or situation sometimes.

Keeping it light for now, being late and not alot of time lately to post or read here. Brotherly love and good will to you, despite any differences we may have,

Sandy

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:43:48 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: God and creativity another take.
Message:
Dear Sandy,

I've noticed your greater easiness when posting here. Congratulations.

Anyway I wanted to slightly sidetrack you and see where this takes you if you are still up and about.

A chap named JL Moreno developed a psychotherapeutic method called psychodrama during the early part of the last century 1930 - 1960. Anyway he had an interesting philosophy which was greatly ahead of its time and thus made little inroads to the more central and accepted theories. He was a real maverick and his underlying philosophy was rather interesting.

He wanted people to encounter each other, to really see the world through each others eyes. Not trying to convince everyone to see them through their own eyes. He had a great picture of you ripping out my eyes and placing them in your head and me ripping out your eyes and placing them in my head. And in this way really see the other worlds that each of us see.

But to the point with regards gods and the like. He had an interesting notion that we are all gods. And that as gods we have the potential for creative genius. As well he saw that as gods we are each responsible for everone else and everyone else is also responsible for us. This mutual responsibility was the hallmark of his life and he lived it wherever he went. Which meant he was often seen as meddling and intrusive.

So this idea, lets not be overly leteral (like Mormons etc), of being creative beings, gods in fact, and being equally responsible for each other is a rather radical and I reckon subversive idea. It means, I think that we are co-creators of the world we live in. Moreno would discuss the myth of the unbreakable gold chains that bound Prometheus to the rock while his liver/intestines were being eaten for eternity by vultures and say that no longer could Prometheus blame anyone else but come to see his own creation and responsibility adn collusion with the situation - the chains were of his own creation. This being a metaphor for our own life choices and circumstances. The major difference between this idea and the 'isolationist/do it yourself/everyone makes their own choices and must live with them' crowd, that often turns up here as well, is the idea of being responsible for each other.

Anyway I post this for your consideration, Sandy. I am still struggling with Moreno's ideas - they are a bit advanced for me but I am immensely attracted to them and imagine a life where I acted as if they were true. I think there are many people on this site who act in a congruent way with his ideas. The leading luminaries come to mind - Jim especially, PatC, AJW, JM,Roger other whose posts I've enjoyed but names I've forgotten. They have been relelntless in creating another way of seeing MJ and assisting others to do the same. These people sometimes act in a very not-nice manner but at the same time a highly responsible and I dare say loving manner. They refuse to be patsies for anyone. The resolutely refuse to be conned and a con artist needs a patsy, and a pasty need to collude in order to suffer. Premies collude and often suffer. Premies ask us to collude and we refuse.

Cheers for now

Peter Howie
Brisbane, Australia

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:38:31 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: God and creativity another take.
Message:
Hi Peter,

I'm on the way out the door and cannot go deep now, but I wholeheartedly believe that we are all incarnations of the
divine, that these bodies are his efforts to build vehicles to drive around and experience and feel his creation. We souls get to go for the ride. And the reason we feel so close to our divinity when we are creative is because creativity is the Creator's middle name...uhhh you know what I mean.

Gotta run...later mate.

G'day,

Sandy

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:30:44 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: it is that 'for now' issue that is the problem
Message:
You say

'Keeping it light for now'

Then you will revert back to the abuse of others here.
Leading them on and then wasting completely thier thousands of
posts to you with responses that no friends in 3D life would put up with.

Oliver North fooled a lot of people with his sincereity act.
But reality is, that only frauds act sincere. Real people just
be themselves

From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'The seed is going to germinate!'
Message:
The reports from Nottingham present a curious picture.
The program is billed as a celebration of the 30 year history of Rawat in the West. The first day there is a very long video chronicling that history. The video begins: '1969-1970: The first Western followers reach India and get to see and hear Maharaji. The Seed is Sown.'

Then the second day Rawat makes his speech and is quoted as saying this: 'You are that place where that seed is going to germinate.'

What kind of a statement is that to make after 30 years?! Good Lord, what kind of a seed takes that long to start to open. Shouldn't we be talking about nearly-grown trees by now? At least there's gotta be a few sapplings in the audience. Maybe he got his speech for the aspirants confused with the one for the 30 year veterans.

Why doesn't Rawat acknowledge all the wonderful progress that all of his students have made in thirty years? But no, not one single mention of how well Knowledge is working already in all of their lives, how strong they all are, how enlightened. No, all he says is that it's all gonna start happening if you ever prepare your heart well enough. (I guess Kabir was correct as he is quoted just below in Jim's post: 'Devotion to the guru is hard work'.)

So what does Rawat celebrate at this 30 year program? The only thing he celebrates is his own accomplishments. And what is his accomplishment in 30 years? According to him, it is the fact that 30 years ago he was talking to an audience of people that would make up the first row only, and now, having invited anyone from anywhere in the world, there are nearly 7000 needy people in the audience. Wow! Impressive!

Rawat is already looking out at a sea of bald heads and wrinkles. What's gonna happen in another decade or two? The premies will arrive with their canes and hearing aids, and Rawat will shout out at them: 'Yeah, guys, just find that sincerity and the seed is really gonna germinate any day now!!'

.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 10:00:15 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: a big part of sincerity IS being yourself, bill..
Message:
and some trees take the better part of a lifetime to bring forth fruit, I think olives are one such.

And I also resent your analogy about Ollie, etc. And your attitude of 'hey, we've spent alot of time on you, why don't you think like us yet, something must be wrong with you'...just doesn't cut it either.

Many premies and ex-premies have alot invested in their positions and it would take a very humble person to move either way. I am not on tiral here, nor am I on anyone else's timetable. Progress is not always obvious nor is it a race to be cool with the peer group, as I see it. I have moved my position, but not to your satisfaction. I can live with that.

Sandy

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:27:28 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Maybe this Pat C post will make a dent
Message:
Date: Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 15:21:22
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: It's obviously all the ex-premies fault.
Message:
Unlike the thoroughly modern PWKs (who are not in a cult) us ex-premies were stupid enough to take everything that Rev Rawat said literally. Real premies never did.
Expremies believed Rawat when he said he was greater than god. Real premies knew that he was just being Hinduically hyperbolical.

Expremies believed him when he said surrender the reins of your life. Real premies knew that he wasn't really being serious.

Expremies believed him when he said you could never realize K if you did not move into the ashram and give all your worldly goods to Rawat. Real premies knew that did not apply to them.

Expremies were the fanatics who listened to everything that the mahatmas said because they were Rawat's chosen ones. Real premies knew that the mahatmas were child-molesters even before they left India.

Expremies were the ones who set impossibly idealistic standards. Real premies always knew that we were not supposed to take it so seriously.

Expremies were the ones who thought that Rawat was serious when he offered immortality and the realization of God. Real premies knew all along that it was just about enjoying life.

Expremies were the ones who created the cult with their fanaticism. Real premies had to stand by helplessly and watch as people were driven bankrupt or insane by the impossible demands.

Expremies were the fanatics who nearly ruined everything for M in the old days. He has had to struggle so hard to correct the false impressions that the expremies created.

But real premies don't mind taking a little bit of the blame as long as Rev Rawat emerges unscathed.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:46:49 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: bill: Sarcasm and satire may make for an
Message:
interesting read, but they don't make any real headway in the actual search for the thing we all were originally seeking now, do they?

I read PatC's post and got the message, but I think it's a well-written and witty crock. Cute, though, but too 'poor-me sarcastic' for my taste. If that's the party line for real, it's worse than I thought.

So how are YOU? Or does that matter anymore...too OT to ask an old friend 'how goes it'?

Sandy

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:17:01 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: thou darest critique a Pat C gem?
Message:
I just erased my post I typed.
You know, you have abused and insulted way too many people here for too many years.

I respect most of the people here, and you treat them badly.
It is hard to forget.

Why are you such a user?
Why are you a tormentor?

I dont see the fun and I dont see the point.
Real people dont ACT sincere. They just be themselves.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 10:04:16 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Let's talk 'I' and 'you' if you dare, bill
Message:
I don't torment, nor do I abuse anyone here. Great words to tear down someone though, 'torment and abuse'. Shit man, talk about twisting and trying to hard sell someone into a way of seeing something...and it's not fun, that I agree on.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:13:27 (GMT)
From: bill-Your views are not
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: the issue,it is your abuse of the forum posters.nt
Message:
czvbz
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:19:23 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: bill-Your views are not
Subject: You are setting up an us-them thing, bill
Message:
I am a forum poster too. And God knows that abuse is all over thise place. Why do you choose to single me out and call me abusive? If you are truly against abuse here, why don't you go after it sitewide and not just come after me? I daresay that if I were totally immersed in your mindset, you would not mind whatever I said.

Sandy

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 01:17:27 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Unintentional humour from Lifes Great [sic]
Message:
This is a post from some Dave guy over on CD's Lifes Great [sic] site. Nothing better to do, so I thought I'd cut and paste it along with the detailed response it deserves:

Hi just for laughs;
Ex-premies, current morons
insights and characteristics drawn form the ex sites;
They're insulted to have to pay a 100 dollar donation for a three day event but would think nothing of spending 10,000 bucks on some lamo
ex site.

wrong

They've spent 23 years still complaining about what a failure Millenium was and they knew the astrodome would never take off, duh.

wrong

They critize the knowledge web sites for editing but edit anything positive about Maharaji in their sites

wrong
they leave 'the Maharaji cult' and get insulted when no one cares or notices they're not around

dumb

75% took acid or experimented with drugs or drink but they critize Maharaji for allegedly smoking and drinking

misses the point entirely

relationships - ditto

ditto

They spent 10 minutes or 10 days or 5 years mooching off the ashram and an equal amount of time learning how to cook for themselves.

??

They're waiting for a offer on their script about their escape from 'the Maharaji cult'. They figure it could be an action/adventure maybe starring Keenu Reeves, you know?

wrong and especially unfunny

They have proven without a doubt that stupidity is almost infinite.

cult jargon going nowhere

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:40:27 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Oy Veh!
Message:
Funny, but maybe not in the way the guy thought. My favorite was the one about the supposed cost of ex-premie.org :) - I WISH (snicker).

Perhaps he should research how much it costs to put web sites on line (although maybe EV DOES require $10,000 to get a site on line - and that's where he got the figure?). He also might want to think about exactly what or who was that mysterious entity called 'the ashram' who everyone mooched from?

I get pretty sick of this stuff on BOTH sides of the fence...

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:31:11 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: What's THAT mean?
Message:
I get pretty sick of this stuff on BOTH sides of the fence...

?

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:39:15 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Red flag? Sheesh!
Message:
What I meant is that I get sick of people making untrue or exaggerated statements whether they are premies or ex-premies. Don't you? It DOES happen on this forum - as I think you know.

Sheesh Jim, don't you ever agree with ANYTHING I say?

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:48:05 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: I disagree that I never agree with you
Message:
Premies constantly make untrue or exaggerated statements. Your comment -- 'I get pretty sick of this stuff on BOTH sides of the fence...' -- suggests that this is a chronic problem with ex's too. Is it? How?
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:59:20 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I disagree that I never agree with you
Message:
YOU are the one who got 'chronic' out of what I said - which wasn't my intention at all - and honestly, I don't see how you made THAT particular leap of logic! There must be something in the way I write, Jim, that makes you read things into my posts that are not there, and were never intended.

Look, even if only a few posts on this forum have been/are exaggerated or untrue, it's still important to acknowledge that. Otherwise, it sounds like something EV would say. It's really important to me that anything written on the site be as true as possible - because people will seize on any detail to discredit the site. I know and you know that the forum isn't the same as the site - but other people (wishfully) seem to have a hard time figuring that out.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 15:14:50 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: I disagree that I never agree with you
Message:
YOU are the one who got 'chronic' out of what I said - which wasn't my intention at all - and honestly, I don't see how you made THAT particular leap of logic! There must be something in the way I write, Jim, that makes you read things into my posts that are not there, and were never intended.

I guess you're right. It's how you express yourself at times. See, to me, saying that you 'get pretty sick' of something suggests that it is a chronic problem. Ask around, Katie. I'm sure you'll find most people would agree.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 20:09:05 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: But I do think that ...
Message:
... just like we put their posts under a microscope, they could do the same with some of ours. Especially some of those angst-ridden flamers that are sometimes posted here. Of course, the premies we get on here post some real doozies, some even carrying veiled threats, something that the exes never do, to my recent memory. In fact, maybe some of the premies reading here are reading crazy premie posts! -- LOL

And regarding accuracy, I made a point several months ago -- you may recall, Donner jumped in there as one of his first posts -- that the inaccuracies about Bhole Ji's band in someone's journey and posted on eDrek's site made me think this site was generally populated by losers who were exaggerating things and telling stuff that plain didn't happen that way. It coincidentally happened to be that while I was browsing, I started reading that stuff, and I knew the correct version of the story. So I quit reading, and figured that a lot of the information on here was just as screwy. Occasionally the same thing happens with the newspaper, though, when I happen to read an article about something I know more about than the person who wrote the article. These kinds of things are always a bit unsettling. But I digress.

Note that when this accuracy thing happened I'd been an ex for 15 years (and yet was still in denial about a few things). I latched onto the first excuse I could get to figure I didn't need the Forum or EPO. When one looks at the BALANCE of this site and the posts on it, they are reasonable and credible, however.

You can come up with reasons why I'm full of it, but I'm giving you one person's honest reaction. I can't imagine how a committed premie reacts to this site, or an ex who has kind thought about the guru-jism meister.

best wishes, f

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 00:51:21 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Big, big difference, Fran
Message:
... just like we put their posts under a microscope, they could do the same with some of ours. Especially some of those angst-ridden flamers that are sometimes posted here.

Sure premies could put our posts under a microscope but what are they going to find? A lot of anger? Yeah, well beside that. The big thing that comes close to what you're talking about is all the allegations and speculative theories floated here. Hell, Fran, we always say we don't really know. We ask for answers and we get stonewalled. When we don't get stonewalled we get lies. I think any fair-minded person reading the posts here would see that. This is not at all the same as the illogical premie poppycock I'd reposted above.

And regarding accuracy, I made a point several months ago -- you may recall, Donner jumped in there as one of his first posts -- that the inaccuracies about Bhole Ji's band in someone's journey and posted on eDrek's site made me think this site was generally populated by losers who were exaggerating things and telling stuff that plain didn't happen that way. It coincidentally happened to be that while I was browsing, I started reading that stuff, and I knew the correct version of the story. So I quit reading, and figured that a lot of the information on here was just as screwy. Occasionally the same thing happens with the newspaper, though, when I happen to read an article about something I know more about than the person who wrote the article. These kinds of things are always a bit unsettling. But I digress.

Yes, but Fran this is just human nature and unavoidable. Sure, we seem to have gotten something of an exaggerated account of the Bhole Ji story. But this forum and EPO are all about sorting out the facts from fiction and any fair-minded person, I think, would see that. The worst that you should have reacted to that inaccurate account would have been to note it and to wonder, in that light, how truthful are some of the other rumours that circulate here. But that's fine. That's all part of the process. The thing is, ex's are open to that process. You were able to correct many peoples' understanding of what happened with Blue Aquarius because you joined in the dialogue. We listened. You talked, we listened. I guess if anyone took issue with your account they could challenge you on it. That hasn't happened.

Or take a look at what happened with Dettmers. He posts here with a certain level of introspection and candour. People meet him with a certain level of receptivity mixed with suspicion. Because everyone's sincere about it all, the conversation proceeds positively. Differences are worked out where they can or accomodated where not. It's honest communication even if, at any one point, there are some innaccuracies floating here.

Premies, for the most part, guys like the idiot I quoted above, aren't the least bit interested in the facts of these matters. Nor are they interested in their real implication. They are not sincere and hence the big difference.

You can come up with reasons why I'm full of it, but I'm giving you one person's honest reaction. I can't imagine how a committed premie reacts to this site, or an ex who has kind thought about the guru-jism meister.

Can't really think of any other reasons why you're full of it but I'll get back to on that, if I can. But, Fran, the question isn't how committed premies might react to this site, it's whether or not we lie and dissemble like they do. Now, seriously, can you even talk about the two groups in that respect in the same sentence? Katie did but I can't.

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 04:53:52 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Point well taken about following ...
Message:
... the dialogue, the back and forth. It's always galled me that the hit n run posters seem like they don't follow the threads, and the give and take that goes on here.

And I can't say in the months that I've been here that exes that post here don't seem like they're deliberately misrepresenting anything, the few times I've seen someone painting with a broad brush. I have a nose for that sort of thing. I try to catch myself when I do that, so I guess I'm conscious of others doing the same.

--f

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 01:02:25 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: People who have not had a conversation in 20 years
Message:
don't understand about ongoing discussions and how truth will emerge sometimes from speculation but usually from accumulated facts.

Premies were silenced in 1983 and do not know how to have a conversation. Look at the stilted efforts on Lifes Great. All they know is either how to preach sermons or how to hint coyly at You Know Who giving You Know What.

Believe me Jim the sane ones will leave this year. The die-hard nuns will hang on and the fringe Lone Rangers and out-in-left-field loonies of LG will still be smoking dope and hallucinating that he's Balyouguesswhat twenty years from now.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:13:18 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: My point again which they miss completely
Message:
Once again I stress my point.

This site and all its nasty (from a premies point of view) bits that are projected towards MJ is proof positive that MJ is a complete failure. Premies who miss this point are missing it all.

If I had a site dedicated to bringing me down and assisting those I've tried to help - I would surely wonder about the effeciacy of my teachings/style.

Soviet Socialism had its good points but the gulags (and other results) proved it was ultimately inhuman. To only judge Soviet Socialsim by the good bits would be nonsense. To only judge MJ by the good bits is also nonsense - but what premies would have us do (irrespective of whether we (forum mob)think they are good or not - they (premies) think they are good - but they (premies) don't think we are).

This site is about the gulags left behind and disinherited and forgetton by MJ.

Cheers

Peter

PS That last line is pretty good don't you think?

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 01:30:45 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'Without a doubt..stupidity is almost infinite.'
Message:
Amen, amen, and once more, amen.
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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 22:15:17 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Mini-Mini Latvian in London
Message:
Just had a mini-Latvian (well, that's stretching the term I guess, since there was no wine drunk) with Katie D (Disculta) in London, we had a wonderful dinner out at an exotic vegetarian restaurant -- we used to know each other back in the IHQ days, but had not seen each other in about 20 years and felt like instant buddies thanks to renewing the friendship through EPO. So I dunno if it qualifies as a Latvian night, but sure was fun seeing her again and hanging out in the 'real' world.

Katie, if you see this, it was sooooo great to see you and I hope you had a safe journey back -- for essential jet-lagged forum reading, proceed straight to Katie H's Tolerance for Ambiguity thread, some excellent stuff there.

Lotsa love and hi to all,
Joy

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 00:09:56 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Blimey, Joy, you're already talking with a hot
Message:
potato in your mouth and you've only been in Blighty for a few days. Did you eat at Nuts? Hope you are well and happy.
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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 22:20:53 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Mini-Mini Latvian in London
Message:
Does Mini-Mini mean you both wore mini-skirts - oh so Canaby Street Swinging 60's London. Amazing how so many connections have been made and re-made. Is the internet great or what? Love to you both.
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 09:46:43 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Mini-Mini Latvian in London
Message:
She looks exactly the same as at IHQ - and she says I do too - except that my hair has gone curly, which I explained was from eating all my crusts (you probably have to be English to understand this).

It was truly blissful to see you, Joy. It was hard to explain to my mom that this was quite a close friend, even though not seen for 20 years, because our internet connection (mostly we e-mail each other) is so strong. This is quite an amazing phenomenon and can be used for lots of loving purposes.

Yeah, Joy, I'm heading for Katie H's post. And at some point I may write my pre-Knowledge Glastonbury post.

love to all,

Katie Darling

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:34:29 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Welcome back darling Katie - and hi, Joy
Message:
Katie, I got the eating crusts = curly hair too, and don't have a drop of British blood in me. (It didn't work, by the way!)

Joy, glad you liked my post - it helped me a lot to write it. And glad the two of you got to meet. Still hoping to meet both of you someday :).

Love to you both,
Katie H

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 14:51:18 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Katie H, Disculta, Joy
Subject: Welcome back darling Katie - and hi, Joy
Message:
Hi Katie, my hair has gone curly too, very curly (those crusts I loved so much!!!!!) I do have English blood in me.
Katie H, I really liked your post below and I thank Joy for pointing it out I had been gone for the weekend so it was good reading.
Thank you..
Mercedes
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:47:01 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Welcome back darling Katie, sweetie dahling
Message:
Come and have dinner.
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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 15:49:34 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Welcome back darling Katie, sweetie dahling
Message:
Cor blimey, fanks mates! That's brilliant!

Don't mind if I do Pat (perhaps Friday?).

Getting ready to post about my pre-Knowledge Glastonbury re-enactment...

love Katie Darling

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 16:00:18 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I know I shouldn't laugh ....BUUuuuttttt .........
Message:
From ELK:

To Nottingham will gratitude

After the Nottingham event ended, I had to return by train to London alone. I had more luggage than I could really carry, as a consequence, I fell on the stairs of Nottingham's train station and I hurt myself.

A few hours latter, the same situation happened on the stairs of London's subway. Then I could barely walk.

During this strange trajectory to the airport, I received assistance from several different people. Everywhere, different people kept patiently assisting me with my luggage.

Maybe this solidarity is usual in London and Nottingham, but it is not common for me to see a sequence spontaneous voluntary assistance.

After the accidents, for me the Nottingham event ended with a strong feeling of protection and confidence. It was clear that I was assisted all the time.

Thank you to all these gentle people from England who without any request politely assisted me with all their care.

Ivete Belfort Mattos
Sao Paolo, Brazil

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 13:46:36 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: This is kind of sad
Message:
Either this woman never goes out of the house at home, or people where she lives don't act with normal human consideration. I'm glad people helped her - but sheesh, getting treated like a human being by other people is NOT divine!
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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:35:07 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: So that's who it was.
Message:
So that's who the woman under all the hat boxes was, at the bottom of the stairs on Nottingham Midland Station. I thought she was drunk. If I'd have known it was Ivete, the Globe trotting premie, I'd have have dug my heels in harder when I walked over her.

Anth the born-again-rakshasa.

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:46:42 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: AJW
Subject: Dictionary Please
Message:
Anth the born-again-rakshasa

OED Entries Matched
1 entry found.

|| rakshasa ('rA:kSasa). Also raksasa, rakshas; fem. rakshasi. [a. Skr. ra¯kshasa demon, f. rakshas something to be guarded against or warded off.] In Hindu mythology, a malignant demon, esp. one of a band at war with Rama and Hanuman. Also, an artistic representation of such a demon.
1866 Chambers's Encycl. VIII. 101/1 Rakshas, or râkshasa, is, in Hindu Mythology, the name of a class of evil spirits or demons,..imagined..more frequently as mischievous, cruel, and hideous monsters, haunting cemeteries, [etc.]. 1899 F. H. Groome Gypsy Folk-Tales p. lxxiv, In the folktales of India..a rakshasi makes nothing of polishing off the entire population of a city. 1917, etc. [see pishachi]. 1937 M. Covarrubias Island of Bali vii. 178 The most complete statue is that of a wild raksasa crowned with skulls. 1937 M. Covarrubias Island of Bali viii. 239 The giant Rawana, the raksasa king, a monster of wickedness and lechery. 1967 Singha & Massey Indian Dances x. 106 A pair of enormous discs are often held by an unseen helper on either side of the face of a rakshasa or demonic character [in Kathakali dancing]. 1972 Daily Tel. (Colour Suppl.) 12 May 58/3 The most feared Indian vampire, the Rakshasa, was all powerful; it animated dead bodies, snatched babies,..could change into any form and lengthen its arms to 80 miles.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:35:41 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Anth
Subject: Hi Anth
Message:
The most feared Indian vampire, the Rakshasa, was all powerful; it animated dead bodies, snatched babies,..could change into any form and lengthen its arms to 80 miles.

Pleasant sounding creature, isn't it Anth? Are you really like that, Anth?

Steve

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:27:15 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Hi Steve
Message:
I'm worse Steve. I'm quite a likeable chap. (Ask Sir Dave, or the SF Latvians, but not my wife or kids.)

But underneath the surface, there's a drug crazed, scalpel wielding psycho, killing to take over the world.

Yours sincerely,

Mr Nice Guy.

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:56:46 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: That's the one Steve.
Message:
Yup, that's me. Ask my wife.

It's a bit of an exageration about the arms though, more like 70 miles.

Anth Djin with a silent 'd'.

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 19:20:58 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: PS Steve.
Message:
We only wipe out whole cities if the inhabitants, make us REALLY mad (like staging the World Synchronised Swimming Championship or something).

Anth the slightly angry.

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 16:07:26 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: I know I shouldn't laugh ....BUUuuuttttt .........
Message:
After the accidents, for me the Nottingham event ended with a strong feeling of protection and confidence. It was clear that I was assisted all the time.

You know the complete 20 volume Oxford English Dictionary includes many sample sentences going back more than 1000 years. We should submit the above example under the words 'protection', 'confidence' and 'clear', maybe cross-referenced to the word 'grace'.

Steve

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 07:32:02 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Or
Message:
After the accidents, for me the Nottingham event ended with a strong feeling of protection and confidence. It was clear that I was assisted all the time.

It sounds like she woke up covered with Pampers and Tampax and that the Haha divinely put them on her.

Steve

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 17:07:11 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: I know I shouldn't laugh ....BUUuuuttttt .........
Message:
It was clear that I was assisted all the time.

This is funny, this guy obviously cannot distinguish the kindness of strangers as a fairly common social occurance apart from some magical intervention by his percieved lord and master of choice.

This is not Clarity, this is muddled up mythical wool over the eyes cult infested indoctrination.

Thats what is clear to me ....

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 12:31:26 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: NEVER be kind to a premie...
Message:
The moral of Ivette's story is NEVER be kind to a premie.

Remember folks, if you are kind to a premie, the premie will think only that you are an agent of THAT grace.

Give 'em a good kick instead. It's so much more fun to be an agent of THAT lila.

JohnT
- the ethically challenged

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 16:44:11 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Its funny how it works either way, no matter what
Message:
happens in the life of a pinhead, it all goes back to the same thing doesn't it. The man behind the curtain pulling the strings,
'clearly' dealing out punishment (lila) and reward (grace). And keeping an accurate ledger of it all too, so as to not reward or punish anyone unaccordingly.

You make an interesting point JohnT, this stuff gets funnier yet as we examine it

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 02:14:10 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Yeah, and I used to be just like that
Message:
that's what's scary.

Brainwashed we was!

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 07:01:17 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Hi Roger
Message:
Hey man What's up? Thanks for the kick ass gut bustin car ride back to the hotel, what a night! You sure as shit aren't like that anymore.

Look me up if you ever get up this way in your travels, it's good to hear from you.

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:09:23 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: OMIMAHA! - It's a ****MIRACLE****!!!!!!!
Message:
you know, it's the same kind of 'premie-think' that attributes the Maha's supposed 'powers'/siddhis/'grace' to those little moments when you get what you want for a change.

For instance, even George Blodwell's 'amazing' meeting with Bob Dylan wasn't exactly miraculous, when you look at it with eyes that haven't been blinded by the 'maharaji is the master' syndrome.

(i.e. George works in top L.A. boutique where stars are regular clients. George digs Dylan. One day Dylan walks in. George asks for free ticket (though why he didn't raid the ashram money-box for the cash to buy it indicates to me that he must have gone through some kind of major change in life, either that, or the ashram money-box was empty - ha! only kidding, Georgie boy, you must have changed, mustn't you? ;)

er ... where was I?

Oh yes, George pressurises Dylan for free ticket. Dylan buys 'poverty' spiel, hands over backstage pass and at last gets credit card back from Blodwell. All happy, and hey presto - another minor miracle credited to the Maha.

.
.
.

It's easy to make a messiah out of a maha when you know how, isn't it?

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:22:18 (GMT)
From: Voyeur
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: OMIMAHA! - It's a ****MIRACLE****!!!!!!!
Message:
During the short time that I came into contact with George Blodwell I discovered that - how can I put it - he was 'economical with the truth' as I think the British Attorney General put it in an Australian court case
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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:45:06 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Voyeur
Subject: Yes, Voyeur, you hit the nail on the head
Message:
As you are so kindly and tactfully said, Blodders was ''economical with the truth.''

I was thinking about cq's story. When he first posted it I thought it took place in England. Now he says it took place in LA. Well I knew Blodders at that time (very well - almost biblically) and he was NOT living in a ashram but in a fancy place in Laurel Canyon where we consumed large quantities of pot and cocaine. So Blodders conned a ticket out of poor old Bob.

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 19:11:31 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Ouch! wrong head, Pat
Message:
the original Dylan/Blodders post was not mine Pat, I was simply quoting it. Though, on second thoughts, maybe 'Browns' IS in the UK and Dylan was just visiting.

Either way, one of us will have to check the archives to find out who said what first.

Yup, one of us will have to ... er, ...

Have to?

well, perhaps its author might like to save us the trouble?

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 19:18:17 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Oops! Yes, let's leave it up to the author NT
Message:
k
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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 20:08:48 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: oh oh, you mean I need to trawl the archives? (nt)
Message:
they ain't even archived yet!
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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 22:03:29 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Not unless you feel slandered and need to
Message:
dissociate yourself from the Blodders story. Let the author step forward and claim ownership.
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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 10:30:11 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: I got part of it wrong - Browns doesn't have an
Message:
Browns doesn't have an outlet in LA. Just South Molton St & Sloane Street in London.

That's me told.

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:15:07 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: 'make a messiah out of a maha' - good one! /nt
Message:
nt
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