Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 23:19:49 (GMT)
From: Jun 24, 2001 To: Jul 02, 2001 Page: 2 Of: 5


Hadija -:- Hans Jayanti (or however it was spelt) -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 10:48:05 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- Do Not Throw then Away! -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 17:42:11 (GMT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Do Not Throw then Away! -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 21:05:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Do Not Throw then Away! -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 22:10:09 (GMT)
__ Mr. Mind -:- These are slides of the adult Rawat -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 10:55:24 (GMT)

Salam -:- Brian[the cheif] -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:02:13 (GMT)
__ Sonny G -:- You mean like you guys post Elan newsletters here? -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 07:27:16 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- we have. those our our life stories. we own them. -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:12:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- we have. those our our life stories. we own them. -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:55:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Brian -:- copyrights -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 15:17:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- copyrights -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 15:52:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Brian -:- copyrights -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 00:16:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Bob -:- we have. those our our life stories. we own them. -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:25:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Oh let them use that one Salam and Janet -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:59:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- Could someone do a whois on this guy -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:43:58 (GMT)
__ __ Salam -:- Oooooooooooooo, that hurts -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:08:09 (GMT)
__ bill -:- i before e in this case...........nt -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:04:50 (GMT)

Sir Dave -:- I've got competition -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:02:01 (GMT)
__ don puerco -:- I've got competition -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:44:12 (GMT)
__ __ Forum Admin -:- Do me a favor don.... -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 22:22:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ salam -:- Will you stop that -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 08:37:42 (GMT)
__ clarence clear -:- I've got competition from an emotional reactionary -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:44:05 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Very pretty, Charles. Have you shown your friends? -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 10:51:44 (GMT)
__ __ bill-thats a hoot -:- Junior school prize for Religious Knowledge (!) nt -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 06:34:48 (GMT)
__ Katie H -:- That site as compared to ex-premie.org -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 10:15:23 (GMT)
__ __ MW -:- That site as compared to ex-premie.org -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:17:13 (GMT)
__ __ don puerco -:- That site as compared to ex-premie.org -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:53:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- What? -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 14:08:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mili -:- Of course he's angry -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 18:20:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Uh, Mili, that's what I was trying to say -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 12:38:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mili -:- Uh, Mili, that's what I was trying to say -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:28:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You forgot something, Mili -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 23:10:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mili -:- OK, how about this? -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 07:41:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Bullshit, Mili -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 22:00:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- M knew 4sure in '99. Jagdeo still sheltered. nt -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 14:06:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Of course he's angry Mili-But why? -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 23:45:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Yes, Mili, finally put up or shut the fuck up... -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 00:44:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- What misinformation? -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 19:04:27 (GMT)
__ Mr. Mind -:- I've got competition -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 09:16:18 (GMT)
__ wolfie -:- as a lawyer, his is doing no favour for his client -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:39:47 (GMT)
__ Kali -:- 'Charles' and the silence surrounding Jagdeo -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:18:18 (GMT)
__ janet -:- whoever it is, their html is worthless. -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:14:35 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- You've Got Constipation? -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 07:09:47 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- So bold he's afraid to say who he is -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:51:53 (GMT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Charles is a WIMP,,,, -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 23:55:12 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- What's next? The House of Maharaji non-Drek -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:48:13 (GMT)
__ __ Windflower -:- What's next? gurumaharajidoesnotsuck.org -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 15:15:04 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Very funny! NT -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:03:07 (GMT)
__ Bazza -:- I think he needs to fire his legal adviser -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:45:07 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- I guess he thinks he owns Deborah's posts now -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:53:23 (GMT)
__ __ Gary Epton -:- Hey, this guy's an attorney, he graduated from one -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:41:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet -:- duuhh-why izzhe defending the fat guy, den? -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:21:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- to endorse -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:53:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Gary -:- to endorse -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 07:19:57 (GMT)
__ Deborah -:- Chuckie missed his calling! -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:33:25 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- BUT YOU'RE FAMOUS DEBORAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:38:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- You Hate me. You really really Hate me. -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 21:22:23 (GMT)
__ G -:- The registrant -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:16:29 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- what he writes about himself -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:37:56 (GMT)
__ bill -:- New web site Mili?.................nt -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:03:03 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Looks like Pia is history -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:59:08 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- Include 'ex-premie' and 'Forum V' on all ex sites. -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:23:10 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- oh here we go the premies have gotten the ok -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:06:11 (GMT)
__ __ Mr. Mind -:- oh here we go the premies have gotten the ok -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 09:19:33 (GMT)
__ __ Richard -:- En garde! - it's time for paulinepremie.com -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:52:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- No shit, this is a great idea! -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:04:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- great idea! with Dickie Pwickie and Luke Pewk -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:10:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ salam -:- Nooooooooo -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:08:09 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- 'Charles' is too slickly self-defensive -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:12:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet -:- MJ is a cult member????i didnt think he could be -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:32:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Excellent point, Janet! -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:45:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Charles: I speak two different languages -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:37:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- it's a cult -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:19:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- it's a cult -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 10:52:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bryn -:- OT. Leeds 1978/9? I answered you. Who you? nt -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 19:53:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mercedes -:- it's a cult -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:46:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- REALLY?!! -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:31:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Thank you, Stonor! -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 10:41:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Katie...it's crystal clear that m's trip is a cult -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:30:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mili -:- Sure bugs you, doesn't it? -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 18:22:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Yes, Mili. It bugs me that m divides lovers of God -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 18:42:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mili -:- Wrong -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 21:11:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- 'Wrong'? -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 00:53:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mili -:- 'Wrong'? -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:17:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- 'Wrong'? -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 13:09:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- BTW Mili -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 14:35:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- PS, Mili -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 01:22:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Wrong again MILI -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 21:56:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Hi Deborah ... we haven't met ... -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 00:30:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Hi Deborah ... we haven't met ... -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 00:48:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Hi Deborah ... we haven't met ... -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 01:18:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- hi Deborah good to see you -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 22:33:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborsh -:- Always glad to be of SERVICE...pun intended -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 00:09:56 (GMT)

Michael McLure -:- Another long term magical thinker comes out -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:33:15 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- Intimations of [im]mortality... -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:29:36 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- Where's the Wordsworth? -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 13:07:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ such -:- There was a time when meadow, grove, and stream... -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 09:03:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Great Great Poem, Thanks Such nt -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 12:07:42 (GMT)
__ Scot J -:- Welcome to Partial Magical Thinker Land. -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 23:25:41 (GMT)
__ __ Scot J -:- Hope causes trouble, but can't do without it. -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 12:34:40 (GMT)
__ clarence clear -:- Another long term magical thinker comes out -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:23:25 (GMT)
__ Katie H -:- Greetings, Michael - and thank you -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:02:11 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Nice to meet you, Michael McLure -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:53:19 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Welcome Michael and to Patsy.... -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 20:23:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Cynthia: ''Non voglio morir! Non voglio morir!'' -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 23:40:28 (GMT)
__ __ Richard -:- Welcome Michael McLure -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:06:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Okay let's get maudlin drunk, Richard -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:48:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- That's why it's called self-pity -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:00:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Baby Pigeon Fancier Tosser's Part Deux -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:08:12 (GMT)

Steve Quint -:- Apology And Explanation -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 00:06:31 (GMT)
__ Timmi -:- Apology And Explanation -:- Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 15:29:30 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Apology to Timmi: You're a gentleman, Steve -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 00:49:59 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Sweethearts -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 15:32:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- A Cute Poem -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 15:38:20 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Apology to Timmi: You're a gentleman, Steve -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 06:32:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Seriously, Steve, don't call a woman sweetheart -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 07:57:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Furthermore -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 13:59:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Hello Pat -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 13:27:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Okay, Steve I was a bit pompous with you -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 23:59:36 (GMT)

Sandy -:- If I may propose raising the bar a bit... -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 00:00:38 (GMT)
__ Scot J -:- A quote Sandy might like . . . -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 23:10:19 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- Sandy, you're in Phase 2 of Forum 5 now -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:10:50 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- Richard BEST OF FORUM and I'm not being facetious -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:00:22 (GMT)
__ __ Sandy -:- It's aliiiiive!!! -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:26:07 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- I'm *wary* of this -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:41:22 (GMT)
__ __ Sandy -:- Selene -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:52:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- are you really that literal Sandy? -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:25:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sandy -:- Not always, perhaps it was your syntax -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:28:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- yeah I was not clear nt -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:29:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- That may not be true Mr president -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:48:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- was giving benefit of doubt -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:50:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sandy -:- about that headache -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:56:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- I don't 'try' it anywhere -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:59:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sandy -:- Selene -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:10:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- it's OK -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:17:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sandy -:- I can relate -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:24:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hey, Sandy, good one! -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:28:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sandy -:- Sarcasm will get you nowhere -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:36:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Peter Howie wrote you this. I cant read your posts -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:56:34 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- and love each other little children -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:21:06 (GMT)
__ __ Sandy -:- I can envision a venting time period when new -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:43:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Don't agree -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:45:53 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- That LOWERS the bar in many respects -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:51:23 (GMT)
__ __ Sandy -:- To everyone: An example of arrogance that we -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:47:12 (GMT)
__ __ Sandy -:- And also not put words in each others' mouth... -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:38:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Oh no, you're actually doing this AGAIN?? -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:25:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sandy -:- Right Jim, you are not putting words in my mouth -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:34:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sandy -:- Goodnight, everyone. Peaceful rest to all. (nt) -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:08:19 (GMT)

Ian Dury -:- What is this 'Dad' bullshit, Carlos? -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 22:45:37 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Maybe 'Carlos' Is Hans Or Amar -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 00:00:25 (GMT)
__ Mercedes -:- 'Dad' bullshit -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 23:20:15 (GMT)
__ __ Carl -:- 'Dad' bullshit: Same routine in Jim Jones cult /nt -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:57:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- And the Moonies too /nt -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:54:56 (GMT)
__ Moldy Warp -:- Not to mention this underwhelming experience -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 23:08:04 (GMT)
__ __ Rigid Thoughts -:- I wanted to join them but my stiff male-ness -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 06:46:29 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- A battle-ground of awed,emotional people?????????? -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 00:56:36 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- I dunno -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 00:40:53 (GMT)

PatC -:- Rawat sells Gurujism. What is Gurujism? Long post. -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 19:01:23 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Hope You Don't Mind That I've Pornolized Your Post -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 21:39:12 (GMT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- What does Frankenstein call a spanner ? -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 23:42:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Spanner Is Wrench In North American -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 23:54:20 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- Pornolized Gurujism - an improvement, Steve - NT -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 23:12:12 (GMT)
__ Chuck Sprague -:- Gurujism teaches self-doubt, hence we have... -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 21:09:27 (GMT)

Gary Epton -:- The Hare Krishnas' 'EV' - ISKCON, -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 17:37:59 (GMT)

Lurker #27 -:- Scary stuff! -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 16:13:21 (GMT)
__ such -:- r.e. scary stuff: blind belief/blind disbelief -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:59:10 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Scary stuff! - Ignorance is far worse -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 23:51:39 (GMT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Regarding UFO! -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 00:31:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ such -:- Yep,earth civilizations may have risen/fallen,too -:- Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 08:08:02 (GMT)
__ __ Lurker #27 -:- Sorry Sir Dave! -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 13:35:37 (GMT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- Thyme oil cured my bad back (ot) -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:05:04 (GMT)
__ __ Steve Quint -:- Ignoramuses -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 23:58:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- And there's nowt more dangerous -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 00:12:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- 'Promised Land' And 'Haharaji' Don't Mix -:- Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 06:54:03 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- You are right Lurker -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 19:41:51 (GMT)
__ __ Lurker #27 -:- Aromatherapy huh! -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 19:46:01 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Most PWKs I know believe that shit too. Poor Jim! -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 18:36:24 (GMT)
__ __ Lurker #27 -:- Most PWKs I know believe that shit too? -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 19:20:56 (GMT)


Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 10:48:05 (GMT)
From: Hadija
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hans Jayanti (or however it was spelt)
Message:
Can anyone use or abuse an entire slide show produced for Hans Jayanti 197*.* ... complete with garlands, crowns, pillows, and those lotus(?) feet etc. etc. I found it in my loft and will otherwise put it in the wheely bin or take it to a charity shop ... hmmmm, perhaps not.

Those were 'not' the days...

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 17:42:11 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: brauns@apollo.lv
To: Hadija
Subject: Do Not Throw then Away!
Message:
If no one else takes them, send them to me in Latvia - I'll pay the freight!

John Brauns

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 21:05:24 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Do Not Throw then Away!
Message:
Hi John. I don't know if you're kidding when you said that? But I definitely think people should keep them so we can handle the JuJu revisionism scandal.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 22:10:09 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Do Not Throw then Away!
Message:
Deborah,

Why would you think I was kidding? I agree 100%, and if no one closer to Hadija offers to take the slides, then I will store them here.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 10:55:24 (GMT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: Hadija
Subject: These are slides of the adult Rawat
Message:
and may be of value to someone here.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:02:13 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Brian[the cheif]
Message:
Did Mr Charles [below] ask you permission to copy some of the Journies and the posts from Ex-premie.org? I think there is a blatant act of sabotage of copyrights issues here, or does that mean we can raid their sites too?

Salam

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 07:27:16 (GMT)
From: Sonny G
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: You mean like you guys post Elan newsletters here?
Message:
grow up
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:12:00 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Sonny G
Subject: we have. those our our life stories. we own them.
Message:
no one has a right to tell them but we ourselves, where we choose to.

if posting them helps others understand how we grew up and out of this illusion, let good be the result.

maturity comes hard. you have to live it. it can't be bought and sold.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:55:24 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: we have. those our our life stories. we own them.
Message:
I agree. The Journies are personal accounts of what we went through. They shouldn't be used by anyone without permission. MR. CHArles and his buddies can use the rest of the info on ex-premie.org after asking Brian or JMK, but the Journies should be protected by copyright and the person involved should agree to it's use.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 15:17:34 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Salam
Subject: copyrights
Message:
Charles didn't ask me for permission. I would have told him that he needed the author's permission, not the webmaster's permission.

It's been our policy that contributors retain control and rights over whatever they include in their Journeys entries. If they want them removed from this site, we comply with the request - if its source is verifiable via email, phone, etc. White Pages and Journeys are the only areas of the site where 'ownership' applies.

There is nothing to stop someone from taking something that they've found online and creating a new page with the same content (or even changing the content) other than whatever laws apply to protect the authors.

Many Journeys entries are contributed either anonymously or the person has only supplied a first name, etc. There's no way that we can 'protect' Journeys content from being copied elsewhere.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 15:52:24 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: copyrights
Message:
I have not checked the journies page, but is this stated there? Charles has simply cut and paste with disregard to copyrights issues [is he a lawyer?].

I think with what you're saying he needs to think twice and either remove it or ask the author of the journey's concent, otherwise he stand liable for intellectual property theft.

like I said, am not fussed about using anything except the journies, they are private and need to be respected. How would Charles feel if someone snuck in his backdoor and started sniffing at his wife's underpants. This is dirty tactics. Something got to give.

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 00:16:42 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Salam
Subject: copyrights
Message:
I think with what you're saying he needs to think twice and either remove it or ask the author of the journey's concent, otherwise he stand liable for intellectual property theft.

Overall, I don't care if someone 'steals' content from this site.

like I said, am not fussed about using anything except the journies, they are private and need to be respected.

I take Journeys offline at the author's request. But I'm not knowledgeable about copyright law as it pertains to the web. Particularly when someone has requested their 'private' words be published online in a public area of the web where anyone can read them and isn't being damaged by them appearing elsewhere (as in, loss of income, etc).

If your Journey is somewhere in that HTML hell that he's created, then you may have a problem with him. If not, what do you care?

How would Charles feel if someone snuck in his backdoor and started sniffing at his wife's underpants. This is dirty tactics. Something got to give.

Interesting analogy, I guess.

But I'm personally in favor of whatever is online being left online. No matter HOW bad the HTML is.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:25:38 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: we have. those our our life stories. we own them.
Message:
Agree! this is personal and should not be used to illustrate apoint not intended by the authors.
Take the SOB to court!!
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:59:24 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Oh let them use that one Salam and Janet
Message:
I'll sue the bastards if they used mine but let them have that one. It's hilarious. I loved the bit about the anti-Christ. Maybe the fundies will take it seriously.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:43:58 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Could someone do a whois on this guy
Message:
get his name an number, where he lives, my relatives are a bit restless tonight. What's his ISP?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:08:09 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Sonny G
Subject: Oooooooooooooo, that hurts
Message:
I love it when you guys talk dirty like that. I hope you're complaying with EV's policy. Are you?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:04:50 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: i before e in this case...........nt
Message:
dffga
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:02:01 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I've got competition
Message:
There's more than one Truth About Maharaji now.

Here's one The Truth about Maharaji which is obviously in response to

my own The Truth about Maharaji

Now which is more true because let's face it, they can't both be true.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:44:12 (GMT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: I've got competition
Message:
yes, looks like ya got competition and that new site
definitely is much better than yours ...
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 22:22:35 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: don puerco
Subject: Do me a favor don....
Message:
Have a look round that internet cafe you're in and see if our old friend hanuman is still there, verstehen sie?

PS, and yes, you are blocked. Email me if you want in again.

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 08:37:42 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Will you stop that
Message:
you're spoling all the fun. I feel like doin some bashin.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:44:05 (GMT)
From: clarence clear
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: I've got competition from an emotional reactionary
Message:
I get a little tired of hearing that I am involved in a hate group. I do not hate. Overemotional reactionary rantings which ignore facts cut no ice. Choosing exerpts from writings which he has done to paint the picture he want's is very a typical media trick. If this is how the legal profession operates, well need I say more.
Clarence
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 10:51:44 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Very pretty, Charles. Have you shown your friends?
Message:
Thanks for the laugh, Charles, but your page is a very limp organ indeed (have you sought independent feedback?), and your conspicuous failure to identify, let alone address the so-called 'disinformation' - making corrections as necessary - is plain bizarre. Understandable from a humble devotee like Pia, maybe, but hardly what you should get from a legal bigshot.

I mean, is that how you operate in court? - head in a bag whilst anonymously listing your qualifications? Maybe hold up some smiley pictures of your client? Some nice flowers, too, to seal the argument...? Very impressive.

Nigel Longhurst FCD, BSc (Hons, first class), Marconi fork-lift truck driver's certificate, Grade V piano, Grade VIII french horn (ABRSM), Junior school prize for Religious Knowledge (!), blah fucking blah, so what..

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 06:34:48 (GMT)
From: bill-thats a hoot
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Junior school prize for Religious Knowledge (!) nt
Message:
sdfhsdf
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 10:15:23 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: That site as compared to ex-premie.org
Message:
I have to admit that I didn't read the whole site (!), but I did read most of what 'Charles' had to say about ex-premies. One thing that we have really made an effort to do on the ex-premie.org site (not talking about the forum) is NOT criticize or generalize about premies, since we hope that premies will at least take a look at the site. Plus almost all the people who use this site WERE premies, and many of us have friends and relatives that are still premies.

It's depressing to see that someone who has supposedly found inner peace feels so much hatred and anger towards us - but I think that contradiction will become obvious to anyone who reads his site.

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:17:13 (GMT)
From: MW
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: That site as compared to ex-premie.org
Message:
Please quote me where he expresses hate and anger. This is tiring, guys. You create your own reality, and then bolster each other in it. Just like a------cult??

Charles's site is not hateful or angry; just a bit more hardball than you're used to, and very refreshing to me. Good job, Charles.

Great questions section. You guys (EPO) never answer or deal with the question of personal responsibility or moving on. Most, not all, of the people who regularly post here, do not accept the validity of personal responsibility, and as such, will be seen by most psychologically 'healthy' people, people who are either naturally wise or who have done 'work' on themselves to resolve their blame and hate issues, as unconscious, still taking the easy way out. It takes courage to accept responsibility for your own actions and state of being at every moment.

Best of luck to you all. Sincerely.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:53:16 (GMT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: That site as compared to ex-premie.org
Message:
i couldn't find any anger and hatred towards exes on this site..
can you give me an example ??
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 14:08:49 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: don puerco
Subject: What?
Message:
I assume you are talking about Charles's site - can't tell from your post. Read the entire 'critics' section - and tell me that you think the guy isn't angry. If you don't think so, there is no point in me arguing with you about it.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 18:20:00 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Of course he's angry
Message:
He is pissed off at all the misinformation and bias that is being perpetuated by your site. Is that so hard to understand?
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 12:38:21 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Uh, Mili, that's what I was trying to say
Message:
Maybe you didn't read the post above mine?

BTW, could you please be more specific about said 'misinformation' on this site? (I'll grant you 'bias' - since everyone is biased in one way or another - it's the human condition.) As I've often said, I get tired of hearing your claims about that without specific corroboration.

Also, Mili, I am kind of surprised that you are jumping on the 'hate club' bandwagon. You must have changed your ideas about ex-premies in the past couple of years - you used to think we were all human beings like you. Sorry about that.

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:28:42 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Uh, Mili, that's what I was trying to say
Message:
Katie,

Of course we are all just human beings! But the division is perpetuated by this site. You were the ones who began labeling us as a 'cult' ever since the time of the newsgroup, remember? So what is happening now is that this has actually begun provoking defensive, cultish behavior. Fortunately, premies are NOT a uniform, homogenous group. They are just as divrse as you could possibly imagine - people from all walks of life, with all possible backgrounds and diverse cultural groups. And they are generally a peaceful, and peace-loving folk. Live and let live could be their motto, indeed. Wish it were like that for everyone in this world. But the animosity is being perpetrated by guess who? This site and this forum.

You've always stated that you don't mind anyone practicing Knowledge if they enjoy it. Don't you realize what your good friend JM Kahn has done? He has actually tried to obstruct Maharaji from coming to Europe this year! Now that wasn't a good idea. That means a LOT of angry premies from now on. It's not a good idea for anyone to try to come in between Maharaji and his premies, believe me it isn't. So now the heat is on. And the honeymoon is over. And believe me, like all wars observed from hindsight, this is a war that no one has really wanted.

I've been through a religious and ethnic war here in Croatia. Some clever sociologist even calculated that an average war lasts for something like 5 years. That's just about the time everyone has had just enough to be sick and tired of it. Of course, the Internet seems to have changed all that, too. I think we're in for a long haul, unfortunately. All of us.

Mili

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 23:10:54 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: You forgot something, Mili
Message:
BTW, could you please be more specific about said 'misinformation' on this site?

is what Katie asked you. You forgot to answer.

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 07:41:31 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: OK, how about this?
Message:
The blurb on the splash page of Ex-premie.org categorically states that Maharaji is 'harboring a pedophile'. And yet there has been not a shred of evidence that he was aware of any of Jagdeo's misdeeds. If he didn't know about it, how can he be held personally responsible?
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 22:00:54 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Bullshit, Mili
Message:
And yet there has been not a shred of evidence that he was aware of any of Jagdeo's misdeeds

Susan's story of what Judy Osborne told her, if true, is evidence.

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 14:06:25 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: M knew 4sure in '99. Jagdeo still sheltered. nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 23:45:38 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Of course he's angry Mili-But why?
Message:
Mili...could of you to notice...I'm actually impressed with that. But you have not mentioned what misinformation.

Give details Mili. You can't suck and blow at the same time.

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 00:44:31 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Yes, Mili, finally put up or shut the fuck up...
Message:
You have have been whingeing on about 'lies' and 'misinformation' on ex-premie.org for as long as I have been on-forum. Repeatedly challenged for an example, you cannot deliver. Katie has called you on this a couple of times. Can't you even tell Katie? It's not as if she has ever badmouthed you, is it? (unlike me - who likes provoking premies till their halos slip)

So how about one example, fuckbrain?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 19:04:27 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: What misinformation?
Message:
Please give details.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 09:16:18 (GMT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: I've got competition
Message:
Hi,

Looking at Pia's site and your 'competion', one could possibly see them as satirical as in you'vegottabekiddingus.org

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:39:47 (GMT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: as a lawyer, his is doing no favour for his client
Message:
for sure EV and M need a better one.

wolfie .....

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:18:18 (GMT)
From: Kali
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: 'Charles' and the silence surrounding Jagdeo
Message:
Funny how they never mention Jagdeo. But then 'Charles' is a lawyer...

Maybe Jagdeo's victims should start their own website.

Any suggestions?

Kali

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:14:35 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: whoever it is, their html is worthless.
Message:
i get the page in with most of it going off the screen unreadable. someone doesnt know how to write code for msie 4.0
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 07:09:47 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Sir Dave and Everyone
Subject: You've Got Constipation?
Message:
Sorry, my hearing aid isn't working correctly.

That picture of Haharaji on the first link is something else - he looks like a mad pig whose facial muscles got frozen in a strange position.

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:51:53 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: So bold he's afraid to say who he is
Message:
I’m a practicing attorney with one of the world’s most prestigious law firms. I was graduated as valedictorian with a dual degree in Political Science and Political Philosophy from one of the nation’s largest universities. I have a law degree from one of the very top law schools in the world. I speak two different languages, am an accomplished classical guitarist, and was a nationally-ranked foil fencer.

And I'm the Duke of Earl. So prestigious that he can't even say where it is, because his law firm wouldn't want to know he loves Maharaji. Love that picture in the dark so you can't see his face. Wonder if it's clip art photos?

Great the way he took the most inflamatory types of posts, two of them by one person (when he only has three up) as a representative sample of the 'hate.'

Looks like he gotcha though, and registered the domain.

As the saying goes, 'the truth will out.' Hate 'group' indeed. I dare any of those premies to read the majority of posts here. Always fighting the enemy these folks. The 'mind' is everywhere.

love, f

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 23:55:12 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Charles is a WIMP,,,,
Message:
I agree with you. Premies would never want the public they interact with to know their twisted little secret about the cult, and the Lord and supporting $7M yachts, $40M planes, mansions etc.

Funny thing is:

Any premie who ever knew me would be blown away by my posts because they know that I was never a bitter, angry, and disconted premie. That's a fact. I was the bliss bunny gopi who chased darshan, held satsang, and lived for service.

Nope...It's a real attention getter.

Cheers!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:48:13 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Sir Dave
Subject: What's next? The House of Maharaji non-Drek
Message:
non-original non-thinkers, all of 'em

Here, take a look at your Lord of the Universe, you fools! Gaze upon his infinite form!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 15:15:04 (GMT)
From: Windflower
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: What's next? gurumaharajidoesnotsuck.org
Message:
versus...

www.gurumaharajisucks.org

So, does he or doesn't he suck.....

Only, {insert buxomy blonde name} knows for sure.

Windflower....

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:03:07 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Very funny! NT
Message:
nnnnnn
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:45:07 (GMT)
From: Bazza
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: I think he needs to fire his legal adviser
Message:
Read this idiots 'Legalese' page:

Reproduction, retransmission or other derivative use of any content on this Web Site without the author’s express written consent is strictly prohibited under Title 18 United States Code, Section 101 et. seq

According to United States Code, 18 USC 101 et seq. covers 'CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE - REPORTS AND REPORTING PROCEDURES and most notably:

§ 2071. Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally.
§ 2073. False entries and reports of moneys or securities.
§ 2075. Officer failing to make returns or reports.

Hmmmm - can anybody say - INDIAN BICYCLE INCIDENT??

FYI clown, Copyrights are covered under 17 USC 1. In particular read Section 107 'Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use'

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:53:23 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: I guess he thinks he owns Deborah's posts now
Message:
... the turkey! Well I hope he likes 'em, eh Deb?

--f

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:41:15 (GMT)
From: Gary Epton
Email: None
To: Bazza
Subject: Hey, this guy's an attorney, he graduated from one
Message:
of the top law schools in the world! He is not only an attorney, he has a fool for a client. Listen, you can't take anything on his site seriously though cuz' he includes the disclaimer The appearance of any text, images, links or other data on this Web Site should not be construed in any way as an endorsement or representation of affiliation with any person or entity
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:21:07 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Gary Epton
Subject: duuhh-why izzhe defending the fat guy, den?
Message:
daddy how come he put up a website about muh rajjee if he izznt endorsing ennee boddy?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:53:10 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Gary Epton
Subject: to endorse
Message:
Here is one meaning of endorse:

'To give approval of or support to, especially by public statement; sanction: endorse a political candidate.'

Looks to me like he's stating publicly that he approves of Miragey and what he is doing. I don't know, maybe he doesn't think his 'Master' is a person or an entity.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 07:19:57 (GMT)
From: Gary
Email: None
To: G
Subject: to endorse
Message:
I don't know, maybe he doesn't think his 'Master' is a person or an entity

Guess not. Let's see then, is G-O-D a person or an entity? Is Guru greater than God? Either way mahooey has a disclaimer on his own website denying either. He's gotta be a pretty fancy fencer (or at least a very magical attorney) to make sense of this.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:33:25 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Chuckie missed his calling!
Message:
What are you thinking, Chuckie. Chuckie, you're beautiful babee, never change. Let's do lunch!. Chuckie, why are you a lawyer. Babe-you should be in the promotion business.

Sir Dave, Can you believe he wants to deter people from Maharaji criticism. Of all the postings to put up there it puts up mine. You thunk he'd put up a weaker-scared-confused version of hate and anger. Nope. Not Chuckie. He puts up one of the most Fuck you BigFuckinHead, if ya can't take a fuckin joke,post.

Slack, eh?

Well, at least we know it's not a debunker site.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:38:14 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: BUT YOU'RE FAMOUS DEBORAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message:
I thought that was the funniest thing I've seen in weeks. Perhaps your sense of humor is too subtle for premies? Maybe we should give him something REALLY hateful to publish. Care for a competition on who can use the most polysyllabic insults for Rev Rawat? I was really upset that he did not use any of my epithets for Balyouguesswhat.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 21:22:23 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: You Hate me. You really really Hate me.
Message:
OH MY GAWWD, I don't believe it. I'm so happy, this is just

(she wipes the tears of joy from her blushing cheeks)

is one of the greatest honours I have ever known. Thank you for the H&A award.

I just want to THANK all the premies who inspired me through the debunking process for helping me get in touch with my inner devil. Without your help and guidance, well, I just couldn't of done it without you.

Tee Hee. So much fun, so much fun, I'm having so much fun.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:16:29 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: The registrant
Message:
Check out the The Legalese from Charles mjtruth2001, the big bad big shot lawyer. Hey Charles, could 'Cee Gee' be your initials perhaps? Yea, I think so. You like to litigate, eh?

Some info on the registrant of www.thetruthaboutmaharaji.com from networksolutions.com is shown below.

Meanwhile, Carlos's former post on it-aint-so at the Current Focus What the readers say page is conspicuously absent. In his post he wrote 'In 1973 I had the great good fortune to help found the Puerto Rican branch of the non-profit entity that supported Maharaji's work back then.' and wrote about not being told about 'confidential details' of Elan Vital's finances.

Looks like there's been some heavy censorship applied to Pia's 'independant' site, probably in response to some critiques about them. How Orwelian. Carlos, how do you feel about being silenced? Maybe we should critique the remaining posts.

Registrant:
Cee Gee Co Cee Gee Co
787 Seventh Avenue
Office 4166
New York, New York 10119
USA

Registrar: Go Daddy Software (http://registrar.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: THETRUTHABOUTMAHARAJI.COM
Created on: 04-Jun-01
Expires on: 04-Jun-02
Last Updated on: 26-Jun-01

Administrative Contact:
--, Charles mjtruth2001@yahoo.com
--
--
--
New York, New York 10119
USA
--
Technical Contact:
--, Charles mjtruth2001@yahoo.com
--
--
--
New York, New York 10119
USA
--

Domain servers in listed order:
WSC1.JOMAX.NET
WSC2.JOMAX.NET

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:37:56 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: all
Subject: what he writes about himself
Message:
Here is what Charles writes about himself: Who I Am

Frankly, I have my doubts about what he writes. He claims 'I was graduated as valedictorian', but his writing just doesn't seem up-to-par for a valedictorian. He writes:

'Both Maharaji, and people ...' Why the comma?
'brain-washed cult-member' Why the '-' in 'cult-member'?

He writes

'As my grandmother would say: 'That's crazy talk.''

There's something about that, like I've read that before from a premie or something. I can't place what it is.

He writes

'one of the nation’s largest universities'
'one of the very top law schools in the world'

I have an idea where he was graduated from (and what his last name is), so maybe I'll check into his claims to see if he's stretching the truth like a rubber band.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:03:03 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: New web site Mili?.................nt
Message:
asdgas
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:59:08 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Looks like Pia is history
Message:
there is a new boy on the block. Mr CHArles.

Hey, first time I see an EV site with the ex-premie word in the meta tags. QUite AMusing. Sheesh, does that mean I have to include Mr. Charles In my it is so site?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:23:10 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Include 'ex-premie' and 'Forum V' on all ex sites.
Message:
A suggestion: make sure 'ex-premie' and 'Forum V' are in the mega tags on all ex-premie sites. They are both mentioned on Charlie's site. Premies just might feel like doing a web search on these terms.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:06:11 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: oh here we go the premies have gotten the ok
Message:
To use the internet. :)
You could add a byline - The Original TTAM web site. Or NO This Is blah blah... or ignore it. Only premies want to read their version of the truth anyway. Someone looking for answers will move on and find the other sites.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 09:19:33 (GMT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: oh here we go the premies have gotten the ok
Message:
I think you're right. I wonder if it's just an attempt to add more pro-Rawat stuff to the search engines.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:52:35 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: En garde! - it's time for paulinepremie.com
Message:
This is really getting comical. Nothing to worry about competition-wise Sir Dave. I don't think Charles is even a premie - he didn't call us loosers. Plus, he can't possibly be in a cult - he's a New York attorney that speaks two foreign languages for god's sake.

But I am willing to launch paulinepremie.com if PP would want to go net. It could draw a huge number of hits from the few remaining premies who really do need a little comic relief. What with all those tiresome slo-mo poetry videos and holy family infomercials and instuctor fund raiser functions, a little live web action might be just the ticket.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:04:24 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: No shit, this is a great idea!
Message:
But would Pauline be into it?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:10:54 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: great idea! with Dickie Pwickie and Luke Pewk
Message:
Guru worship and foot kissing of course!
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:08:09 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Nooooooooo
Message:
Am still working on it-IS-so and I have a life [a little of it anyway]. pleatzzzzz don't.

This certainly requires an update. Comming soon.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:12:15 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Selene and Sir Dave
Subject: 'Charles' is too slickly self-defensive
Message:
Who am I?

My name is Charles, and I’ve been practicing Knowledge
since I first heard about Maharaji in 1980. Both Maharaji,
and people who practice Maharaji's gift of Knowledge are
being attacked viciously as 'cult members',
brainwashed, weak-minded, or just plain stupid and
gullible. As my grandmother would say: 'That's crazy
talk.'
I’m a practicing attorney with one of the world’s most
prestigious law firms. I was graduated as valedictorian
with a dual degree in Political Science and Political
Philosophy from one of the nation’s largest universities. I
have a law degree from one of the very top law schools
in the world. I speak two different languages, am an
accomplished classical guitarist, and was a
nationally-ranked foil fencer. I’m a lot of things, but a
brain-washed cult-member isn't one of them.

They just look more and more pathetic with all their denial.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:32:41 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: MJ is a cult member????i didnt think he could be
Message:
taken in like that!!! does his mother know he joined a cult? man--this is terrible. his father would turn over in his grave. or ghat. or something.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:45:21 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Excellent point, Janet!
Message:
Again from Charles ...

'Both Maharaji,and people who practice Maharaji's gift of Knowledge are being attacked viciously as 'cult members'...'

Talk about spelling out co-dependence! ;-) That Charles must be a wonder to behold in the courtroom.

(And speaking of m's daddy, you have to wonder about someone who has achieved 'God-consciousness' and then slips on a bar of soap.)

Maybe you shouldn't help them so much with their editing! ;-)

Anna

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:37:17 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Charles: I speak two different languages
Message:
Oh, not two similar languages?

Guess, one must be rubber English and the other Orwellian newspeak.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:19:18 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: it's a cult
Message:
And the more they post all over the place the more obvious it becomes to anyone not in the cult.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 10:52:53 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: it's a cult
Message:
'And the more they post all over the place the more obvious it becomes to anyone not in the cult.'

Right on Selene.

I can really see now why m tried to keep premies' mouths shut.

They are doing a wonderful job. The person they adore so much is a paedophille protector, an obvious revisionist, a liar and the ultimate example of narcisism(sp?).
No wonder they never sign their names!!!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 19:53:47 (GMT)
From: Bryn
Email: Bryndaviesesq@hotmail.com
To: Jethro
Subject: OT. Leeds 1978/9? I answered you. Who you? nt
Message:
df
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:46:03 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: it's a cult
Message:
Hi Selene!!
Isn't it funny that these web-sites are popping up one after another?
Why the need to defend this guy (I'm talking about the guru)? A nerve must have been hit and they are reacting but I wonder whether these web-sites are unofficially official?

Anyway this is my 1 cent contribution.

Mercedes

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:31:01 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: REALLY?!!
Message:
LOL Selene - no kidding, and yes, to an outsider premies and m are looking sillier by the second. That site is worse than 'Itaintso', if that's possible. And the soft focus Hallmark pics - pathetic and empty.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 10:41:26 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Thank you, Stonor!
Message:
I really appreciate it - I have tried to read Lifes Great lately and it's been making me quite depressed. I posted below about it in 'The Brick Wall and the Unpenetrable Bubble'. I know you post there sometimes, so I'm glad to hear what you think (as a 'non-anything' - snicker!)

Anyway, thanks - you cheered me up a bit.
Love,
Katie

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:30:58 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Katie...it's crystal clear that m's trip is a cult
Message:
Hi Katie,

I know what you mean about LG being depressing. I was leaving, and then some of the premies pulled some of my old posts up. Same old circles whenever you try to have a conversation with premies, or any 'cult' members. I've noticed your posts there and wanted to respond, but I didn't feel much like posting at the time - I had just been hit with some unexpected weirdness, and when that happens I tend to go silent until I recover a bit (and stick to 'ot' and silly for a while - did you know that I found all but one of the secret codes for hotboardsheads? ;). If they only knew how much they sound and behave like every other cult member I've met in my life, with the usual personal variations on the ever-monotonous theme. They have absolutely nothing interesting to say, and can't take part in intelligent conversation for long. All the same avoidance tactics ... even DavidJ has been using covert and overt-aggressive tactics, and I'm sure that he doesn't have enough self-knowledge to even recognize it in himself. I like him and find it quite sad, because he seems to be basically a very good man and father, with a great wife. Well, so is my born-again Christian friend, and ... . :( I just don't have the time or patience to carry on a one-sided conversation, and if I hear anymore about that f#&*king 'knowledge' experience as if it it is completely different from anyone else's meditation experience...! To me, the biggest indicator of a cult is when its members cannot accept that they don't have a monopoly on the 'Truth', let alone knowledge, 'God', or even meditation. That vibe is always there while they're in a cult, even long after they've left it sometimes - to me, that is the long-term effects of practicing 'knowledge.'

Love,

Anna

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 18:22:39 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Sure bugs you, doesn't it?
Message:
that f#&*king 'knowledge' experience
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 18:42:13 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Yes, Mili. It bugs me that m divides lovers of God
Message:
Yes, Mili. It bugs me that m's trip divides humanity into yet another variation of 'us' vs.'them' and distorts what little truth he has received for his own ends. But you know that.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 21:11:24 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Wrong
Message:
You are the one dividing 'us' into 'cult' and 'non-cult'.

Maharaji always talks about just us, human beings. But you wouldn't know that, because you avoid actually listening to him for fear of being 'hypnotized' or some other such sick shit.

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 00:53:55 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: 'Wrong'?
Message:
I'm very certain that I am not the only one who calls m's trip a cult in the popular sense of the word, but why does that bother you if you have 'Knowledge' and I'm ignorant?

I have never 'avoided' listening to m. If he is coming to Montreal and it won't tax my budget too heavily, I would be willing to go - let me know, my email address hasn't changed. I would only be doing it as a favour to you. I have read enough transcripts and quotes to know that I'm not at all interested in what he has to offer. I have absolutely no fear of him hypnotizing me - I don't seem to be the type that is easily hypnotized, or impressed either.

I've been to a few 'guru' events. I remember when I heard Pir Vilayat Khan speak in a very small venue. I met someone there I knew and she was all googly-eyed and high. I kept trying to look him in the eyes, and he very consciously avoided it, IMO. His 'thugs' tried to talk me into being initiated, gave me an out I took and backed off. I'm not afraid of them; I'm bored and disgusted by the way some 'gurus' and other 'spiritual masters' are manipulating human souls in the name of 'Whatever-It-Is'.

BTW, the Gurdjieff music is fabulous! I've been playing it in my mind since I got it AND suddenly I'm finally getting my piano back!!! (after about 20 years) My sister has to move and can't take it. Next the sheet music! I will send you a cassette as promised, but I'm waiting for the fourth volume to be released in Canada because that's the one that has the piece that most immediately affected me in a tangible way. I feel like I've found the reason why I've ever played the piano, the music I've wanted to play, but couldn't write or find ... it's very strange.

And it's strange chattering on to someone who has been so consistently rude to me, but I just got back from a great yoga class and the sun is still shining!

Always Anna

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:17:58 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: 'Wrong'?
Message:
Anna,

Bigotry and prejudice bother me just as a simple human being and I'd hope they would bother you, too. But you've certainly been fanning the flames here - so don't be surprised if I've been rude to you at times.

It's nice to be talking to you in a civilized manner again, though. But don't expect me to chat away with you forever, either here or by e-mail. I am not interested in proving you wrong on each and every point when the whole thrust of your 'argument' is misdirected. Besides, I have many other preoccupations and I don't really spend very much time online these days.

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 13:09:08 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: 'Wrong'?
Message:
Well, enjoy your life ... as they say!
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 14:35:22 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: BTW Mili
Message:
I went to your site to look for 'Some Guy's' site, and it's not there anymore. Did he change the name? He had some interesting links that I vaguely remember. That 'Blue Cave' looks magical! Did you take the pics?
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 01:22:19 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: PS, Mili
Message:
I replied to your post(s?) below as well.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 21:56:14 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Wrong again MILI
Message:
What the hell is the matter with you? Telling an ex-premie he never listened to Maharaji is like telling the Pope that he should be Catholic?

What are you thinking? Try leaving a whole paragraph next time. These are just sound bites. Mili, think of what you're saying before you post. These are ex-premies. Many of them knew the BigHead in ways that you could only dream about.

Mili, you idolize M and still hope to have your fantasy of a personal relationship with him---hearing this shit about him is squelching your dreams. He's nobody MILI.

Well except for a fraud, dickhead, cult leader, piece of shit, selfish bastard, glutton, megalomaniac, nimcompoop...etc.

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 00:30:42 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Hi Deborah ... we haven't met ...
Message:
I haven't been posting much the last few months, so I'm not surprised that you're confused. I think I'm the only non-premie or ex (aka non-anything) still posting here at this moment. Mili is quite right that I have never 'listened' to m, but I have read quite a few transcripts and quotes, and I doubt that it's an improvement to hear him speak live. Mili is how I landed here over a year ago. Let me introduce you to him! Mili's Page The last time I saw his site it looked a little overwhelmed with pics (but Croatia is beautiful!) and he had some good links, not sure what's there now. He's a nice guy, but seems a little depressed some times (who isn't! ;). Well educated (does translation work) ... not at all bad looking either, (although I remember someone complaining about the semi-nude shot of him! ;). That guru thing sure kills an esoteric conversation though - it seems so limiting for premies - at a certain point they have to keep saying the same thing over and over again, and there's no other content. You know, their meditation is different and more special than any other, but you don't even need to meditate to get 'k', without it you can't appreciate and enjoy life in the same way as they do ... blah blah, blah. But you must know that as well as Selene! ;) (Hi Selene! I know how you feel. Will email soon!:)

I think you're out in BC - I'm in Montreal. Nice to see more Canadians around here!

Anna (Stonor is my father's middle name and I use it to post)

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 00:48:22 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Hi Deborah ... we haven't met ...
Message:
Well, let me introduce myself. My name is Deborah Rose and I come from Montreal. Bonjour! Bonjour!

What part of Mtl are you from, originally? And where do you live now?

I'm sure Mili is a decent guy. I never attack prems but I do attack their comments. They seem to forget that we were premies. Many are revising history because they're just not ready to consciously hear the truth.

Because I have a lucid memory of M and premies, it was easy for me to put two and two together. All premies loved M and believed he was the distiller of Knowledge. I still have friends who support and serve M and I would never say anything unkind about them. But they are not one with him, and it would be a disservice to sugarcoat the truth. If they're here, they want to be here. Obviously! They have to go to their computer and type ex-premie.org in the url.

Other non-prems are JohnT and Timmi and Magnolia...they are spouses of prems. Look for their posts.

Nice chatting with you. Salut!

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 01:18:33 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: stonor21@hotmail.com
To: Deborah
Subject: Hi Deborah ... we haven't met ...
Message:
From Montreal too? Why should I be surprised - that's why most people I grew up with aren't here anymore - they all moved out west when the PQ came into power, and of course the steady dribble with each referendum! ;) Out of curiosity, if you feel like telling me, when and why did you leave? I was born in St. Lambert on the South Shore, but I've been living in NDG for quite a while now.

The history revision and double-think of the premies is what I find most difficult to deal with. There was a spin at LG I couldn't believe! And all three premies posting there at the time didn't notice how they were contradicting each other - each in their own little bubble, I guess. And that is what is most sad for me ... I can tell how well-meaning they are, but this guru thing around them is like spider webs or something. You wouldn't believe how much I cried about cult stuff as I learned more about it over the last year. I had always figured it wasn't my thing, but if it made others happy ... fine! But that doesn't exactly seem to be the case at all, and then there's their idea that they have the only 'True Knowledge'. The Kripalu people that I've done a lot of yoga with went through a much gentler disillusionment when their married guru turned out to be pressing female devotees for sex. But they were all googly-eyed about him and looked at me a little sadly when I told them I could never prostrate myself to any human, and would pranam in the direction of the sun.

How could I have forgotten about JohnT! (And I got a spam mail from a John T today, note the space - definitely not the same person!) And yes, Magnolia and now Timmi.

Nice to have met you!

Bonne soiree!

Anna

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 22:33:53 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: hi Deborah good to see you
Message:
Love your high spirited energy I am so bored with these premies I can't get it up to say much to em anymore. Glad you are here!:)
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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 00:09:56 (GMT)
From: Deborsh
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Always glad to be of SERVICE...pun intended
Message:
Enjoy the break. I'm here to cover for you. My strategy is to make prems uncomfortable. And apparently it worked. Charles doesn't realize that my posts will bring the ratings of EPO up!!

Yippee...I promised the BigHead that I would do Satsang (always be in the company of TRUTH) Service (I'm here, nuf said) and as for Meditation...well--looks like I'm contemplating the TRUTH, doesn't it?

Kick back for awhile...they're jus blowin smoke out their arse.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:33:15 (GMT)
From: Michael McLure
Email: m_mclure@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Another long term magical thinker comes out
Message:
I finally became an ex after being introduced to EPO in ’98. Thanks heaps to Brian and Katie for making this resource available and thanks(?) to all the regulars( too numerous to name ) for making the forum so addictive!

I have been a forum junkie since finding the site and I thought it’s about time that I owned up to the fact! Thanks primarily to this site, I now know that all premies are victims of magical thinking by definition and at least, for me, it has been very hard to remove this tendency to want to believe weird shit.

I have recently read a book called 'Why People Believe Weird Things' by Michael Shermer, president of the Skeptics society, and . I thought I would reproduce this extract to promote discussion:

“Life is contingent and filled with uncertainties, the most frightening of which is the manner, time, and place of our own demise. For a parent, an even worse fear is the death of one's child, which makes those who have suffered such a loss especially vulnerable to what 'psychics' offer. Under the pressure of reality, we become credulous. We seek reassuring certainties from fortune-tellers and palm-readers, astrologers and psychics. Our critical faculties break down under the onslaught of promises and hopes offered to assuage life's great anxieties. Wouldn't it be marvellous if we did not really die? Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could speak with our lost loved ones again? Of course it would. Skeptics are no different from believers when it comes to such desires. This is an ancient human drive. In a world where one's life was as uncertain as the next meal, our ancestors all over the globe developed beliefs in an afterlife and spirit world. So, when we are vulnerable and afraid, the provider of hope has only to make the promise of an afterlife and offer the flimsiest of proofs. Human credulity will do the rest as poet Alexander Pope observed in his 1733 Essay on Man:
Hope springs eternal in the human breast;
Man never Is, but always To be blest.
The soul, Uneasy, and confin'd from home,
Rests and expatiates in a life to come.
This hope is what drives all of us - skeptics and believers alike - to be compelled by unsolved mysteries, to seek spiritual meaning in a physical universe, desire immortality, and wish that our hopes for eternity may be fulfilled. It is what pushes many people to spiritualists, New Age gurus, and television psychics, who offer a Faustian bargain: eternity in exchange for the willing suspension of disbelief ( and usually a contribution to the provider's coffers ).”

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:29:36 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Michael McLure
Subject: Intimations of [im]mortality...
Message:
Heaven but the Vision of fulfilled Desire,
and Hell the Shadow from a Soul on fire.

-- Omar Khayyam

To say that everything happens according to natural laws, and to say that everything is ordained by the decree and ordinance of God, is the same thing.

-- Benedict Spinoza

The world is not a 'prison house' but a kind of spiritual kindergarten where millions of bewildered infants are trying to spell God with the wrong blocks.

-- Edward Arlington Robinson

Man cannot live without an enduring trust in something indestructible in himself. Yet while doing that he may all his life be unaware of that indestructible thing and of himself in it.

-- Franz Kafka

Lalande, or whoever it was, who searched the heavens with his telescope and could find no God, would not have found the human mind if he had searched the brain with a microscope.

-- George Santayana

Hope humbly then; with trembling pinions soar;
Wait the great teacher death, and God adore.
What future bliss he gives not thee to know,
But gives that hope to be thy blessing now.
Hope springs eternal in the human breast;
Man never is, but always to be blessed.

-- Alexander Pope

I am in the world of the roads.
The night comes. Open thy gate, thou world of the home.

-- Rabindranath Tagore

Peace and lentils,

da lil' swami

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 13:07:27 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Where's the Wordsworth?
Message:
Do you have it? I like that poem, was expecting to read it.
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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 09:03:00 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: There was a time when meadow, grove, and stream...
Message:
Dear Katie:

As a kid, I knew this poem virtually by heart. Had a strange dream one time: that I was living in England in the early 19th century and was sitting writing a poem next to a place that had a sign that said 'Tintern Abbey.' Then, I woke up. Later, I saw this same name in a book!

Here you go, Katie:

William Wordsworth. 1770–1850
  
536. Ode
Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood

  THERE was a time when meadow, grove, and stream,  
    The earth, and every common sight,  
            To me did seem  
    Apparell'd in celestial light,  
The glory and the freshness of a dream.          
It is not now as it hath been of yore;—  
        Turn wheresoe'er I may,  
            By night or day,  
The things which I have seen I now can see no more.  
 
        The rainbow comes and goes,   
        And lovely is the rose;  
        The moon doth with delight  
    Look round her when the heavens are bare;  
        Waters on a starry night  
        Are beautiful and fair;   
    The sunshine is a glorious birth;  
    But yet I know, where'er I go,  
That there hath pass'd away a glory from the earth.  
 
Now, while the birds thus sing a joyous song,  
    And while the young lambs bound   
        As to the tabor's sound,  
To me alone there came a thought of grief:  
A timely utterance gave that thought relief,  
        And I again am strong:  
The cataracts blow their trumpets from the steep;   
No more shall grief of mine the season wrong;  
I hear the echoes through the mountains throng,  
The winds come to me from the fields of sleep,  
        And all the earth is gay;  
            Land and sea   
    Give themselves up to jollity,  
      And with the heart of May  
    Doth every beast keep holiday;—  
          Thou Child of Joy,  
Shout round me, let me hear thy shouts, thou happy   
    Shepherd-boy!  
 
Ye blessèd creatures, I have heard the call  
    Ye to each other make; I see  
The heavens laugh with you in your jubilee;  
    My heart is at your festival,   
      My head hath its coronal,  
The fulness of your bliss, I feel—I feel it all.  
        O evil day! if I were sullen  
        While Earth herself is adorning,  
            This sweet May-morning,   
        And the children are culling  
            On every side,  
        In a thousand valleys far and wide,  
        Fresh flowers; while the sun shines warm,  
And the babe leaps up on his mother's arm:—   
        I hear, I hear, with joy I hear!  
        —But there's a tree, of many, one,  
A single field which I have look'd upon,  
Both of them speak of something that is gone:  
          The pansy at my feet   
          Doth the same tale repeat:  
Whither is fled the visionary gleam?  
Where is it now, the glory and the dream?  
 
Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting:  
The Soul that rises with us, our life's Star,   
        Hath had elsewhere its setting,  
          And cometh from afar:  
        Not in entire forgetfulness,  
        And not in utter nakedness,  
But trailing clouds of glory do we come   
        From God, who is our home:  
Heaven lies about us in our infancy!  
Shades of the prison-house begin to close  
        Upon the growing Boy,  
But he beholds the light, and whence it flows,   
        He sees it in his joy;  
The Youth, who daily farther from the east  
    Must travel, still is Nature's priest,  
      And by the vision splendid  
      Is on his way attended;   
At length the Man perceives it die away,  
And fade into the light of common day.  
 
Earth fills her lap with pleasures of her own;  
Yearnings she hath in her own natural kind,  
And, even with something of a mother's mind,   
        And no unworthy aim,  
    The homely nurse doth all she can  
To make her foster-child, her Inmate Man,  
    Forget the glories he hath known,  
And that imperial palace whence he came.  
 
Behold the Child among his new-born blisses,  
A six years' darling of a pigmy size!  
See, where 'mid work of his own hand he lies,  
Fretted by sallies of his mother's kisses,  
With light upon him from his father's eyes!   
See, at his feet, some little plan or chart,  
Some fragment from his dream of human life,  
Shaped by himself with newly-learnèd art;  
    A wedding or a festival,  
    A mourning or a funeral;   
        And this hath now his heart,  
    And unto this he frames his song:  
        Then will he fit his tongue  
To dialogues of business, love, or strife;  
        But it will not be long
        Ere this be thrown aside,  
        And with new joy and pride  
The little actor cons another part;  
Filling from time to time his 'humorous stage'  
With all the Persons, down to palsied Age,  
That Life brings with her in her equipage;  
        As if his whole vocation  
        Were endless imitation.  
 
Thou, whose exterior semblance doth belie  
        Thy soul's immensity;  
Thou best philosopher, who yet dost keep  
Thy heritage, thou eye among the blind,  
That, deaf and silent, read'st the eternal deep,  
Haunted for ever by the eternal mind,—  
        Mighty prophet! Seer blest!  
        On whom those truths do rest,  
Which we are toiling all our lives to find,  
In darkness lost, the darkness of the grave;  
Thou, over whom thy Immortality  
Broods like the Day, a master o'er a slave,  
A presence which is not to be put by;  
          To whom the grave  
Is but a lonely bed without the sense or sight  
        Of day or the warm light,  
A place of thought where we in waiting lie;  
Thou little Child, yet glorious in the might  
Of heaven-born freedom on thy being's height,  
Why with such earnest pains dost thou provoke  
The years to bring the inevitable yoke,  
Thus blindly with thy blessedness at strife?  
Full soon thy soul shall have her earthly freight,  
And custom lie upon thee with a weight,  
Heavy as frost, and deep almost as life!  
 
        O joy! that in our embers  
        Is something that doth live,  
        That nature yet remembers  
        What was so fugitive!  
The thought of our past years in me doth breed  
Perpetual benediction: not indeed  
For that which is most worthy to be blest—  
Delight and liberty, the simple creed  
Of childhood, whether busy or at rest,  
With new-fledged hope still fluttering in his breast:—  
        Not for these I raise  
        The song of thanks and praise;  
    But for those obstinate questionings  
    Of sense and outward things,  
    Fallings from us, vanishings;  
    Blank misgivings of a Creature  
Moving about in worlds not realized,  
High instincts before which our mortal Nature  
Did tremble like a guilty thing surprised:  
        But for those first affections,  
        Those shadowy recollections,  
      Which, be they what they may,  
Are yet the fountain-light of all our day,  
Are yet a master-light of all our seeing;  
  Uphold us, cherish, and have power to make  
Our noisy years seem moments in the being  
Of the eternal Silence: truths that wake,  
            To perish never:  
Which neither listlessness, nor mad endeavour,  
            Nor Man nor Boy,  
Nor all that is at enmity with joy,  
Can utterly abolish or destroy!  
    Hence in a season of calm weather  
        Though inland far we be,  
Our souls have sight of that immortal sea  
        Which brought us hither,  
    Can in a moment travel thither,  
And see the children sport upon the shore,  
And hear the mighty waters rolling evermore.  
 
Then sing, ye birds, sing, sing a joyous song!  
        And let the young lambs bound  
        As to the tabor's sound!  
We in thought will join your throng,  
      Ye that pipe and ye that play,  
      Ye that through your hearts to-day  
      Feel the gladness of the May!  
What though the radiance which was once so bright  
Be now for ever taken from my sight,  
    Though nothing can bring back the hour  
Of splendour in the grass, of glory in the flower;  
      We will grieve not, rather find  
      Strength in what remains behind;  
      In the primal sympathy  
      Which having been must ever be;  
      In the soothing thoughts that spring  
      Out of human suffering;  
      In the faith that looks through death,  
In years that bring the philosophic mind.  
 
And O ye Fountains, Meadows, Hills, and Groves,  
Forebode not any severing of our loves!  
Yet in my heart of hearts I feel your might;  
I only have relinquish'd one delight  
To live beneath your more habitual sway.  
I love the brooks which down their channels fret,  
Even more than when I tripp'd lightly as they;  
The innocent brightness of a new-born Day  
            Is lovely yet;  
The clouds that gather round the setting sun  
Do take a sober colouring from an eye  
That hath kept watch o'er man's mortality;  
Another race hath been, and other palms are won.  
Thanks to the human heart by which we live,  
Thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears,  
To me the meanest flower that blows can give  
Thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears.

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 12:07:42 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: such
Subject: Great Great Poem, Thanks Such nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 23:25:41 (GMT)
From: Scot J
Email: None
To: Michael McLure
Subject: Welcome to Partial Magical Thinker Land.
Message:
As one of the resident PMTs on site, I am glad to have you sign in. It's quite a time for anyone, I have to believe, when they first come out and post here. One way or many others, it signifies. Guess what? I am actually going to read the excerpt you quoted and I'm going to get back to you on it! But I am slow, that's why I give you this.

- Scot Jamieson

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 12:34:40 (GMT)
From: Scot J
Email: None
To: Michael M
Subject: Hope causes trouble, but can't do without it.
Message:
'Alexander Pope observed in his 1733 Essay on Man:
Hope springs eternal in the human breast;
Man never Is, but always To be blest.
The soul, Uneasy, and confin'd from home,
Rests and expatiates in a life to come.

This hope is what drives all of us - skeptics and believers alike - to be compelled by unsolved mysteries, to seek spiritual meaning in a physical universe, desire immortality, and wish that our hopes for eternity may be fulfilled. It is what pushes many people to spiritualists, New Age gurus, and television psychics, who offer a Faustian bargain: eternity in exchange for the willing suspension of disbelief ( and usually a contribution to the provider's coffers ).”

This hope is what compels all of us - skeptics and believers alike - to go and look into some of the countless faces of the unknown, is what I say. The experience of looking into the face of the unknown is the essence. The mind rushes over to wrap beliefs around this experience like a parent wrapping a blanket around an unconcerned naked child.

When I asked to receive Knowledge from Maharaji’s representatives, I looked into their faces, and said to myself, “I want that joy I see there.” It didn’t involve suspending any disbelief - what is a “willing suspension of disbelief” anyway? Is “a willing suspension of dis-hunger” a better way of saying “hunger?” I “believed” that I could trust them.

I both was and wasn't mistaken in this. A long story. Can my need to hope be trusted? I notice, though, that hope is like hunger. If I'm really hungry, I am more likely to eat something I'll regret later. If I'm really hopeful, am I more likely to believe something I'l regret later?

But on the other hand, you ignore your hunger pains and your hoping pains at your own peril. They urge us to reach out for something beyond ourselves because in fact we need that to keep alive.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:23:25 (GMT)
From: clarence clear
Email: None
To: Michael McLure
Subject: Another long term magical thinker comes out
Message:
Hi Michael glad to know you
Clarence
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:02:11 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Michael McLure
Subject: Greetings, Michael - and thank you
Message:
Always makes me feel better when someone likes the site :). Welcome!
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:53:19 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Michael McLure
Subject: Nice to meet you, Michael McLure
Message:
The search for immortality is probably as old as the human race and is the subject of the oldest extant story (written on 11 stone tablets) - The Epic of Gilgamesh. He doesn't find immortality but his search makes him wise and he returns to Uruk, where once he had been hated and feared, to rule as a good king.

I think I hung on to M and K for so long because I did not want to face a life without hope of immortality. I no longer have too many other sources of existential angst but every now and then, usually when I least expect it, I get a pang of sorrow as I realize that I am going to die and that I am already two thirds of the way through my alloted span of years.

Now, instead of using Maharajism to dull that pain, I just have a glass of wine and listen to a Requiem Mass and have a good cry and accept the fact the I will one day die. After that I'm ready to face the world again and feel glad to be alive.

I prefer just dealing with this problem on my own rather than swallow some ''magical thinking'' placebo.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 20:23:26 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Welcome Michael and to Patsy....
Message:
Michael, welcome to the real world! Very happy to hear from you.

To Pat: I was taught by a very wise woman a long time ago that to feel sorry for myself is quite all right (who else is going to do it?), as long as I don't LIVE it!

Coming to terms with mortality has been relatively easy for me; I think it has to do with the many brushes with death I've had in my childhood.

I'm very close to age 50 and my husband and I argue (not in a heavy way) who's going to go first. He wants to die first because he says he couldn't live without me:) (not true).

I've come to accept my mortality and I don't know what happens when death happens--I just had to deprogramme myself from all the Roman Catholic and Maharajism BS. I just don't want to go in an auto accident for some reason--it scares the shit out of me.

Pat, you have your cry when you need to, we're humans, laughing and crying have the same effect. These day's I've been laughing a lot, especially with all these backlash sites! Aren't they hilarious?

You be well,
Love,
Cynthia,
The Ex-Pack Rat. I'm up to my ears in ''stuff' and I am giving away and selling a lot of stuff! Christ, I want to be a minimalist in my next home!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 23:40:28 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Cynthia: ''Non voglio morir! Non voglio morir!''
Message:
I used to suffer terribly from self-pity. It went away when I realized that there was no god listening to my prayers and if there is a god he helps those who help themselves. Never looked back but occassionally feel that life is too short and need to listen to ''Non voglio morir'' (I DON'T WANT TO DIE!) the final aria of Puccini's Manon where she dies ''in the deserts of Louisiana.''

When we bought our house it was half the size of our flat and we had a tent in the back yard with boxes for a year. I want to go Japanese - minimalist., bare everything in little boxes, roll up your bed etc or even better a dome tiled inside that I can hose down when the dog hair builds up.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:06:29 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Welcome Michael McLure
Message:
Thanks for joining the conversation and for bringing along that pertinent excerpt. Belief systems can be very deep especially if we think there is a kinder gentler world beyond this one. I'm with PatC on this one - a good cry for the grief of knowing we are part of a fragile humanity and our inevitable demise (especially my own) is liberating.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:48:27 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Okay let's get maudlin drunk, Richard
Message:
That's called ''snot en trane'' (snot and tears) in South Africa. Naah, I cry alone and laugh with friends. That's what friends are for. Hope to bend an elbow with you one day.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:00:30 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: That's why it's called self-pity
Message:
Because you have to do it yourself. But seriously, I think 24 hour a day bliss is seriously over sold. Just like night and day, one leads to another. Thank god(s) I am mature enough to feel safe being a bit depressed and sad once and awhile. It makes the flowers in the garden seem so much more beautiful.

One of these days I'll put the top down on the Miata and head down to SF for a fine veggie meal and a glass of your finest vino. In fact, how about a planning Baby Pigeon Fancier Tosser's Part Deux.

Richard the been up so long looks like down to me

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 05:08:12 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Baby Pigeon Fancier Tosser's Part Deux
Message:
Just say the word and I'll roll out the red carpet.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 00:06:31 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Timmi
Subject: Apology And Explanation
Message:
I posted this below in the appropriate place, but it's pretty low down the page right now so I'd like to repost it:

I'm sorry, sweetheart.

Thanks to Rugu Haharaji I've had schizophrenia for 22 years. I'm getting better thanks to therapy, twelve-step programs (I'll plug Emotions Anonymous here - I've been plugging away at several meetings a week for 14 years - yes, I'm a trooper and I plan to see my recovery through till the bitter end).

I got into an aggressive phase lately, and I'm starting to come out of it. It's like experimenting with different behaviors to find which ones work.

Steve

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Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 15:29:30 (GMT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.comt
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Apology And Explanation
Message:
It's good of you to send this, Steve. I've been unable to get here for several days because of a crisis with one of my nearly grown kids. I've missed the contact I get here more than I thought I would. Haven't read any posts for a few days, so I am especially glad you posted this here where I could see it. Really helped me on a rotten day. Thanks.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 00:49:59 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Apology to Timmi: You're a gentleman, Steve
Message:
But please don't call anybody but your own girlfriend ''sweetheart.'' Okay?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 15:32:02 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: PatC
Subject: Sweethearts
Message:
I guess one of the reasons I used the word 'sweetheart' is that I love Humphrey Bogart.

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 15:38:20 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Steve Quint
Subject: A Cute Poem
Message:
A Cute Poem.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 06:32:43 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: PatC
Subject: Apology to Timmi: You're a gentleman, Steve
Message:
But please don't call anybody but your own girlfriend ''sweetheart.'' Okay?

Okay? What's the big deal, Pat? You know I always appreciate beneficial feedback, but what did I do wrong Now?

Besides, I don't have a girfriend, Pat. What is a girlfriend, anyway?

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 07:57:50 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Seriously, Steve, don't call a woman sweetheart
Message:
unless you really mean it. Calling a thoroughly modern woman (who is NOT your lady friend) ''sweetheart'' is overly familiar and demeaning. It harks back to the days when women were treated as sex-objects and men called them doll, babe, chick etc.

I don't think you meant to be demeaning and probably wanted to be friendly but, in these days of transition from the stone ages to enlightenment, there is such a thing as political correctness. It is a necessary but often clumsy approach to redressing past injustices.

I try not to get my tits in a tangle about all the myriad of ins and outs of political correctness and solve the problem by following the golden rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Unless you have very low self-esteem I doubt if you would like to be called babe, doll etc.

Doesn't your Emotions Anonymous group teach manners and social skills? If it's a group of people suffering from a lack of social-skills then perhaps they should. Ask about classes for social klutzes.

Or better still - get a nice girlfriend to civilize you. Good women have a knack for socializing boorish bachelors. Good luck in emerging from your Rip van Winkle isolation into a world of fun and love and friendship.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 13:59:28 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: PatC
Subject: Furthermore
Message:
Or better still - get a nice girlfriend to civilize you. Good women have a knack for socializing boorish bachelors. Good luck in emerging from your Rip van Winkle isolation into a world of fun and love and friendship.

I don't appreciate the insinuation that I'm a boor. As far as fun is concerned, as I've stated in a new thread above, having to come back here every night is killing my fun. And yes, it is a necessity to me until this business is finished. As far as love is concerned, there's a song called 'Goodbye To Romance' by Ozzy Osbourne that comes to mind when 'romantic love' comes up as a topic. I don't see any romance in this part of the world. Friendship is another thing, and I'm blessed with some very close friends.

Thanks,

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 13:27:20 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Pat
Subject: Hello Pat
Message:
Doesn't your Emotions Anonymous group teach manners and social skills?

Here's the EA statement of purpose from the EA Website.

Emotions Anonymous is a twelve-step organization, similar to Alcoholics Anonymous. Our fellowship is composed of people who come together in weekly meetings for the purpose of working toward recovery from emotional difficulties. EA members are from many walks of life and are of diverse ages, economic status, social and educational backgrounds. The only requirement for membership is a desire to become well emotionally.

That's it, Pat, nothing about social skills.

If it's a group of people suffering from a lack of social-skills then perhaps they should. Ask about classes for social klutzes.

Pat, that's facetious and uncalled for.

Or better still - get a nice girlfriend to civilize you.

Now who's talking about women as 'sex-objects', Pat? A 'girlfriend' is something you 'go out and get' like postage stamps? That's pretty glib.

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 23:59:36 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Okay, Steve I was a bit pompous with you
Message:
I meant to chasten not chastise. Basically I wanted you not to get away without censure for your anti-social cussing. But I over did it. My apologies.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 00:00:38 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: If I may propose raising the bar a bit...
Message:
I suggest that we raise the standards:

no more insults, overt or covert

no more namecalling or labelling overt or covert

more focus on actual experience, past and present

more patience and more tolerance of those who don't process alike

respect for everyone's right to express on topic or off if allowed by FA

if somebody turns you off, talk to someone else and don't try to force an issue or a belief or attack someone else for seeing it differently

assume no malice

remain calm but committed

This is just a beginning. So much energy would be freed up to focus on the central issue(s) and less time and energy and attention wasted on personal loops.

Sandy

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 23:10:19 (GMT)
From: Scot J
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: A quote Sandy might like . . .
Message:
George Bernard Shaw :

'Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people.'

You have to like the 'therefore' he uses. Very rational!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:10:50 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Sandy, you're in Phase 2 of Forum 5 now
Message:
I've noticed a lot of posters, myself included, tend to post a few times and get into the groove - that's Phase 1. Phase 2 is when you start really liking what is happening here, start feeling part of it and want to 'improve things' a bit. So welcome to the next level but don't expect anything to change. It works because it works because it works. The Forum is a pulsing, organic, dare I say breathing thing. It rises and it falls. The bar goes up sometimes and then it falls way below where you would want it to be. But it is mostly uncensored and the only place for ex's and premies to say whatever they want. It's ALIVE! Not pinned to the wall like those ethered 'butterflies' put up by Pia and Charles.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:00:22 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Richard BEST OF FORUM and I'm not being facetious
Message:
Precisely.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:26:07 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: It's aliiiiive!!!
Message:
It's ALIVE! Not pinned to the wall like those ethered 'butterflies' put up by Pia and
Charles. -Richard

Hi Richard,

I signed off and was heading for the sack and I saw your post. I think there is something just as alive that exists in the ethers inbetween the site you mentioned and a lynchmob atmosphere that sometimes erupts here, just waiting to come into manifestation for those who can do it, where strong feelings and emotions can be expressed and no one is personally attacked or eviscerated. After all, it is not flesh and blood we are at odds with, are we?

Sandy

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:41:22 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: I'm *wary* of this
Message:
Confrontation and the ability to engage in confrontation are a healthy thing. People who hide from it with a 'niceness' facade scare me. I think they are lying to themselves and me.

For personal growth reasons I am working on needless anger and acting out. But this is a work in progress and that is the way it is.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:52:48 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Selene
Message:
'Confrontation and the ability to engage in confrontation are a healthy thing. People who hide from it with a 'niceness' facade scare me. I think they are lying to themselves and me.' -Selene

Good strong healthy confrontation does not have to be verbally violent or character assassination. I do not propose hiding honest dialog with 'niceness'. Being more civil will require us all to be more articulate and be able to state our case in such a way that it is what will be discussed and not the character or personality of the speaker being trashed because of a disagreement. -Sandy

For personal growth reasons I am working on needless anger and acting out. But this is a work in progress and that is the way it is. -Selene

Try that at the office or at a bus stop and see what happens. If you want to use this place as a scratching post, you can do that for now, but I think if alot of folks did that it would really do more harm than good, don't you? -Sandy

Look, I just made a suggestion that I thought would raise the vibe and bring more attention and focus and consciousness. I don't like phoney niceness any more than you do. -Sandy

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:25:53 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: are you really that literal Sandy?
Message:
I meant I am working on better methods of expressing my anger , not working on making acting out happen!!!! sheesh
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:28:08 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Not always, perhaps it was your syntax
Message:
I do try to grasp the spirit of what is being said. The letter kills and the spirit gives life, in all realms.

Sandy

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:29:26 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: yeah I was not clear nt
Message:
xxx
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:48:13 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: That may not be true Mr president
Message:
You are loud and clear MAN.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:50:34 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: was giving benefit of doubt
Message:
Cultural diffs, etc. Some people get picky about composition.
but ah, one thing, I really am female.
and I have a headache :)
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:56:53 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: about that headache
Message:
Press firmly but lovingly on the centers of your thumbs and the center of your toes or if you have a friend, it's even better and it works...the headache will subside unless it is more than just a normal headache, like a migraine or something. Be well.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:59:14 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: I don't 'try' it anywhere
Message:
If I act out it is NOT A PLANNED EVENT but a result of triggers that I am as I SAID(!!) working on.
And people where I work are fine with others quirks and accepting of where a person is at. They understand that all of us mean well and are trying.
You make it sound like I am championing wild ranting at bus stops. You accused Jim of putting words in your mouth. Check out your own advice thank you very much.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:10:08 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Selene
Message:
Please forgive my clumsiness and inaccuracy at trying to talk about what it is you are doing.

I am just saying that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I would rather be overwhelmed with common sense and a well said truthful testimony than an attack on my person, verbally or otherwise. And I would cry uncle faster with an appeal to my intelligence than an assault on my being.

And yes, Jim did put words in my mouth which I spit out and called them for what they were. I don't see him backing off and giving respect in this here and now as I am giving you.

Sandy

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:17:44 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: it's OK
Message:
Very few people will agree out front that fake (what I consider fake) niceness is not a good thing. After all then it makes them look/sound not-nice also.

I see it all the time, people who speak softly and it sounds like they are choking something down.
They act ever so considerate and suddenly BOOM they kick the file cabinet so hard there is a dent in it. I'm always relieved when they kick the cabinet and double relief if it isn't me that finally broke through the bs.
I don't want the job or the credit.

If others don't understand what I am saying or won't admit it's got a certain amound of validity to it, that is their problem not mine.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:24:19 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I can relate
Message:
We just repaired some holes in the walls of our apartment that have appeared over the last few years. Two teenage sons and a dysfunctional marriage can try everyone's patience. I am just seeking higher ground to deal from and still be highly effective and focussed and more concise in my messages. I think it is possible but difficult to attain, but worth the effort.

Sandy

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:28:15 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Hey, Sandy, good one!
Message:
I am just seeking higher ground to deal from and still be highly effective and focussed and more concise in my messages.

You're worried about staying 'highly effective and focussed and more concise'? Did I hear you right? Sandy, relax, one thing you can rest assured in is the knowledge that, whatever you've got, you ain't gonna lose it in a day.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:36:46 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Sarcasm will get you nowhere
Message:
To paraphrase Winston Churchill, in the morning I will be more humble, and you, sir, will still be an egomaniac.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:56:34 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Peter Howie wrote you this. I cant read your posts
Message:
Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 07:43:48
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: God and creativity another take.
Message:
Dear Sandy,
I've noticed your greater easiness when posting here. Congratulations.

Anyway I wanted to slightly sidetrack you and see where this takes you if you are still up and about.

A chap named JL Moreno developed a psychotherapeutic method called psychodrama during the early part of the last century 1930 - 1960. Anyway he had an interesting philosophy which was greatly ahead of its time and thus made little inroads to the more central and accepted theories. He was a real maverick and his underlying philosophy was rather interesting.

He wanted people to encounter each other, to really see the world through each others eyes. Not trying to convince everyone to see them through their own eyes. He had a great picture of you ripping out my eyes and placing them in your head and me ripping out your eyes and placing them in my head. And in this way really see the other worlds that each of us see.

But to the point with regards gods and the like. He had an interesting notion that we are all gods. And that as gods we have the potential for creative genius. As well he saw that as gods we are each responsible for everone else and everyone else is also responsible for us. This mutual responsibility was the hallmark of his life and he lived it wherever he went. Which meant he was often seen as meddling and intrusive.

So this idea, lets not be overly leteral (like Mormons etc), of being creative beings, gods in fact, and being equally responsible for each other is a rather radical and I reckon subversive idea. It means, I think that we are co-creators of the world we live in. Moreno would discuss the myth of the unbreakable gold chains that bound Prometheus to the rock while his liver/intestines were being eaten for eternity by vultures and say that no longer could Prometheus blame anyone else but come to see his own creation and responsibility adn collusion with the situation - the chains were of his own creation. This being a metaphor for our own life choices and circumstances. The major difference between this idea and the 'isolationist/do it yourself/everyone makes their own choices and must live with them' crowd, that often turns up here as well, is the idea of being responsible for each other.

Anyway I post this for your consideration, Sandy. I am still struggling with Moreno's ideas - they are a bit advanced for me but I am immensely attracted to them and imagine a life where I acted as if they were true. I think there are many people on this site who act in a congruent way with his ideas. The leading luminaries come to mind - Jim especially, PatC, AJW, JM,Roger other whose posts I've enjoyed but names I've forgotten. They have been relelntless in creating another way of seeing MJ and assisting others to do the same. These people sometimes act in a very not-nice manner but at the same time a highly responsible and I dare say loving manner. They refuse to be patsies for anyone. The resolutely refuse to be conned and a con artist needs a patsy, and a pasty need to collude in order to suffer. Premies collude and often suffer. Premies ask us to collude and we refuse.

Cheers for now

Peter Howie
Brisbane, Australia

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:21:06 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: and love each other little children
Message:
Sandy,

Excuse me, butt,

there are some pissed off people around, you really expect them to do that?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:43:41 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: I can envision a venting time period when new
Message:
people show up, a time when the initial venting happens. But the house vibe can be more stable for sure and be able to handle it, with the understanding that once one has had a chance to let it out, that the anger can subside and be replaced with a more constructive thingy without anyone blowing a fuse or a gut or someone else out of the water. If someone says the truth, then it doesn't have to be used as a sledgehammer, it will stand on its own.


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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:45:53 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Don't agree
Message:
and am glad of it. Each one is an individual and has his/her own way of approaching things. The wise man should be able to see through.

Wow, were did this wisdom come from?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:51:23 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: That LOWERS the bar in many respects
Message:
What you want, Sandy, is a venue to air your views, no matter how silly, with impunity. Over my dead body.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:47:12 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: To everyone: An example of arrogance that we
Message:
take for granted and call normal around here because it happens so often unchecked. And I am not the only one who this has happened to:

'What you want, Sandy, is a venue to air your views, no matter how silly, with impunity.' -Jim

This is not true. If I never posted here again, if I were on my deathbed or decided to not come here anymore, I would still make the suggestion of being more civil.

Maybe it is you, sir Jim, who wants a venue to air YOUR views, no matter how mean-spirited, with impunity. Out of my mouth come the issues of my heart and out of your mouth come the issues of yours. Deal with that. It's the truth whether you agree or not.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:38:40 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: And also not put words in each others' mouth...
Message:
For example:

'What you want, Sandy, is a venue to air your views, no matter how silly, with impunity. Over my dead body.' -Jim

No, Jim, I articulated what I want, thank you very much. You are mistaken.

Sandy

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:25:17 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Oh no, you're actually doing this AGAIN??
Message:
Holy moly!

Listen, Sandy, I didn't put 'words in [your] mouth'. I accused you of having a certain unstated agenda which was, in particular, to have a 'venue to air your views, no matter how silly, with impunity'. I never said that you'd said that, did I? That would be putting 'words in [your] mouth'.

Get it?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:34:09 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Right Jim, you are not putting words in my mouth
Message:
You are putting motives in my heart that are not there, an even more invasive form of what it is that you do, which is verbal manipulation, something you do for a living,a nd are thu8s better at than the average person.

You can be as literal as you wish about this dialog, but the essence and spirit of it is that you accused me of having motives which I do not have, to change this site. I think that what I propose will open up the opportunity for those who are not as forthcoming as you or me to come out and speak, once the fur and spit stop flying so casually and often.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:08:19 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Goodnight, everyone. Peaceful rest to all. (nt)
Message:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 22:45:37 (GMT)
From: Ian Dury
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What is this 'Dad' bullshit, Carlos?
Message:
Over on 'Life's Great', Carlos keeps referring to Rawat as 'Dad'.
Is Carlos trying to infer that he is Rawat's love-child?

Just reading a few premie postings on that site made me feel quite ill, and very, very thankful that I am no longer a brain-dead cult-member.

Although there are many exceptions, premies, in general, are the scariest, craziest group of people I have ever encountered in my life, and I should know.....I WAS one.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 00:00:25 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Maybe 'Carlos' Is Hans Or Amar
Message:
Anything's possible around here.

Steve

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 23:20:15 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Ian Dury
Subject: 'Dad' bullshit
Message:
Hi Ian, I can say that when I was in the cult I had fallen in the pit of calling M dad or daddy, it sounds sick and it IS. For some reason many a premi myself included at the time called or referred to him as such. All I can say is I am glad I don't call this guy dad any more he is no longer my Higher Power which by the way when people refer to him as dad that is what is implied.

Mercedes
(who has a dad and is NOT M)

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 03:57:30 (GMT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Mercedes
Subject: 'Dad' bullshit: Same routine in Jim Jones cult /nt
Message:
yowza
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 11:54:56 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: And the Moonies too /nt
Message:
Double yowsa!
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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 23:08:04 (GMT)
From: Moldy Warp
Email: None
To: Ian Dury
Subject: Not to mention this underwhelming experience
Message:
of one Jonathon Minton ... which for some reason he felt impelled to post in that pit of the universe AKA Enjoying Life...

>>>Jonathan Minton: It was a gorgeous day
From London, UK

It was the height of summer. The sun shone and every blade of grass, flower and tree turned out in its glorious best. The day was Thursday. It felt like a holiday. I woke up and felt: 'Why do I feel so good today?' Then remembered.

I caught a ride in a white transit van which made a circuitous route to the airport picking up passengers in different parts of London and stopping off a park in Hounslow to borrow some flowers.

We got to the airport,then found the right terminal. There was quite a crowd already two hours before the plane arrived. I'd never seen so many people associated with Maharaji. Where had they all come from? Whenever I visited the ashram only a handful of people were involved.I'd never seen more than a dozen premies at one time and I thought that maybe, maybe there were 50 in the whole country.

But today the bush telegraph had really worked and a crowd had gathered.Maybe 200 and growing. The soon-to-be-hackneyed routine of lining the route with flowers and eager faces seemed to develop spontaneously from that occasion.

So for a couple of hours the crowds grew and so did the anticipation. Finally a whisper went round:The plane has landed.

Then more waiting. After several false alarms when unsuspecting arrivals were greeted with applause and cheers quickly stifled as we felt the real moment was ready to arrive.

A scurrying of figures near the entrance and then very quickly the party arrived. They marched into the concourse: Maharaji radiant in white kurta and wearing open-toed black and white sandals. Accompanied by some pink figures and the burly contrasting figure of the airport inspector in a suit.

For a few moments there was no noise. Maharaji strode through the crowds. Still quiet.

Then with a mighty roar the crowd erupted into a cheer and shouting. Like the sharp pop of a champagne cork releasing the energy in its bottle so did all that accumulated excitement release in a vocal 'Yes!!!'

And bar the shouting that was it. It only took Maharaji a brief half minute to travel the route lined with love. He was out and into the car where he stopped for another minute or so. Crowds gathered round the Rolls.

Then he left and we watched the back of the car recede as it sped away.

And what was left? A battle-ground of awed,emotional people.

There were groups and single people standing looking shocked.Some collapsed and sat down.I saw one guy just holding his head .
Some smiles. Some laughs. Some girls were hugging each other and tears flowed. I wanted to join them but my stiff male-ness intervened.

There was just an air of complete amazement about that event and its still a most complete exulting experience to remember it today.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 06:46:29 (GMT)
From: Rigid Thoughts
Email: None
To: Moldy Warp
Subject: I wanted to join them but my stiff male-ness
Message:
intervened. Freud is pleased.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 00:56:36 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Moldy Warp
Subject: A battle-ground of awed,emotional people??????????
Message:
The poor fella can't write, can't think and.....oh, but I forgot - he's an expert at breathing.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 00:40:53 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Moldy Warp
Subject: I dunno
Message:
J Minton writes:

'my stiff male-ness intervened'

Sounds like he was up for something that day.

I was there too and my maleness did get somewhat stimulated by all those young premie girls sitting waiting for the Lord of the Universe. When he arrived, I was completely underwhelmed and wondered if I'd seen the right guy or was it just an aide.

And so began the story...

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 19:01:23 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Rawat sells Gurujism. What is Gurujism? Long post.
Message:
This is a repost of a message that Swami Suchabanana posted in another thread but I feel it needs a thread of it's own. As I said to him, ''This is some sick shit. No wonder Rawat Junior does not quote his father.'' Here it is. Get out your barf-bags. This is truly nauseating guru vomit.

SERVANT OR SLAVE
'A servant is someone who is always serving. Kabir says, service alone entitles someone to be called a SERVANT.
A servant is always doing his service, he doesn’t wander off in the middle of it. He puts up with both pain and pleasure, says Kabir.

The intellect of the servant and the intellect of his MASTER become one. They merge with each other.

The Master is never pleased by cleverness. He is only pleased by the feelings of the heart.

Stay near the RICH man’s door, and accept his BLOWS. He may be pleased one day and give you his favour.

Kabir says that THE GURU WISHES TO OWN EVERYTHING, but no-one is willing to belong to the Guru. As long as you expect your body to be good to you, you cannot become HIS SLAVE.

He who is not TIED to the Guru is tied to this world, and he who is tied to the Guru is freed from the bonds of this world.

He who acts, but does not consider himself to be the actor, he it is who is called THE SLAVE.

The Guru is capable of doing anything, and He is always with you, HIS FEET REST UPON YOUR HEAD. What more do you need?

The goddesses of wealth and fortune, and the genius to accomplish all things, all are ready to serve the servant of the LORD. Salvation is never far from him.

If the Lord’s servant is weeping, the Lord Himself weeps with him. He appears before His servant in the twinkling of an eye, and grants him all his desires.

Such a SLAVE makes no demands on HIS MASTER, but serves HIM day and night. Kabir says, death will never call for him.

Guru is the provider of everything, and each receives according to his circumstances. His SERVANT loves Him from the heart, and clings to His FEET day and night.

THE SERVANT IS HIS MASTER'S DOG, his Master leads him on the string of love, and whatever his Master tells him, he does it.

When the GURU says 'GO,' he goes, and when HE says 'COME,' he comes. He lives AS HIS GURU SEES FIT to keep him, and eats whatever his Guru gives.

People call themselves the SLAVE OF THE GURU, but they do not feel that they are slaves from the core of their hearts.

How can my thirst be quenched, if I refuse to drink water? How can I be HIS TRUE SLAVE if I have no humility.

I do NOT ask for the pleasures of this world, NOT do I pray for salvation. I beg only YOUR devotion. I do not visit other people and make demands on them. It is to YOU alone that I turn.

'When earth and sky vanish, and Mount Olympus itself is no more, when all is one, where will Your SLAVES be found?'

'Let everything merge together, no matter. Let Olympus itself be brought down, let earth and sky be no more. MY SLAVES shall find refuge in Me.'

You should surrender your mind to the true servant, who would far rather die than betray his Lord.

This world is like an attic full of cobwebs. Happy are those servants of the Lord who can enter it without getting covered in dust.

Those who are not in love can rest easy, but he who has fallen in love knows no sleep at all. He is restless, he spends his night like a fish out of water.

Why should he be sad, who has the Lord dwelling in his heart? You should make more and more effort to see Him, and all will be light.

Kabir says that God alone is awake. He says that no-one is awake but Him. He says, EITHER worldly men are awake, or the true servants of the Lord are awake.

My Lord is enthroned in every heart. No-one is without Him. But blessed is that heart in which he reveals His presence.'

And this, by way of contrast, is what Chuck said to Such:

YIKES! K-Lite it's NOT. It's really TOO HORRIBLE

I remember M trying to justify the word Master, saying it's just a word, it shouldn't bother anyone, that it was Master-student, NOT Master-SLAVE. Did he not bother to read his own fathers teachings, his father who he revears so much? Or is he just a bold-faced liar? How disingenuous!

I'd like to see a place on EPO where this is quoted, so current aspirants can see what they are not being told. When I had started posting here and said Masters were for dogs, not people, I had no idea that Shri Hans had said in no uncertain terms that his devotees were their Master's dog. I would say ''LOL'', but I can't because what is being described in those quotes is SICK. It's the basis for all the abuse that has happened. It hurts a bit, because I feel betrayed all over again. :-( Yet it explains a lot, idolization and devotion of M, which never meshed for me with the K-Lite explanation of K I was given.

I've read about other guru's since finding EPO, and they all seem to talk drivel like that at some point. They all want dog-like obedience. Maharajism is just another brand of Gurujism. K-Lite is just a Spoonful of sugar to help the ''medicine'' go down. It covers up the bad taste so the bad tasting stuff can get through. But the ''medicine'' itself seems like a dysfunctional illenss to me. More like poisen. Dangerous, twisted religious hooey. No thank you.

PatC again: This is what's not being talked about to aspirants or on the official cult sites. Rawat does not sell ''Knowledge.'' The techs are there to enslave you via their quasi-mystical crap. Rawat sells emotional and spiritual slavery.


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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 21:39:12 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: PatC
Subject: Hope You Don't Mind That I've Pornolized Your Post
Message:
Subject: Rawat asslicks Gurujism. What is Gurujism? Long post.

Ballbusts is a gangbanging repost of a assfucking message that Swami 'Fill me up' Suchabanana cocksucked in another thread but I feel it wad pulls a wanking thread of it's own. As I said to him, ''Smoochs is some sick shit. No wonder Rawat 'Up the Arse' Junior wad pulls not quote his father.'' Here it is. Get out your barf-browns. Sex fights is truly licking guru vomit.
SERVANT OR SLAVE
'A servant is someone who is muff sniffs smooching. Kabir wanks, service alone browns someone to be smacked a asslicking SERVANT.
A fingering servant is smoochs doing his service, he doesn’t wander off in the fingering middle of it. He unclefucks up with both pain and pleasure, bangs Kabir.

The screwing intellect of the deep throating servant and the wanking intellect of his MASTER become one. They merge with each other.

The smooching Master is never fingerfucked by squirts. He is only wanked by the sex fighting pecks of the raiding heart.

Stay near the squirting RICH man’s door, and accept his BLOWS. He may be fistfucked one day and give you his favour.

Kabir shafts that THE GURU WISHES TO OWN EVERYTHING, but no-one is raunching to belong to the smooching Guru. As long as you expect your body to be good to you, you cannot become HIS SLAVE.

He who is not TIED to the felching Guru is tied to smoochs world, and he who is tied to the fucking Guru is sex fighted from the jerking cuntlicks of wanks world.

He who plows, but cuntlapps not consider himself to be the entering actor, he it is who is wad pulled THE SLAVE.

The sucking Guru is capable of doing felching, and He is pecks with you, HIS FEET REST UPON YOUR HEAD. What more do you need?

The cuntlapping gangbangs of wealth and fortune, and the smooching sucks to accomplish all wanks, all are ready to serve the wad pulling servant of the fistfucking LORD. Salvation is never far from him.

If the banging Lord’s servant is raunching, the sex fighting Lord 'Cock Sucker' Himself raunchs with him. He blows before His servant in the unclefucking assfucking of an eye, and raunchs him all his browns.

Such a thrusting SLAVE smacks no sucks on HIS MASTER, but spews HIM day and night. Kabir wanks, death will never call for him.

Guru is the fucking provider of wad pulling, and each pecks titty fucking to his circumstances. His SERVANT squirts Him from the squirting heart, and fingerfucks to His FEET day and night.

THE SERVANT IS HIS MASTER'S DOG, his Master thrusts him on the gangbanging spewing of love, and whatever his Master thrusts him, he cocksucks it.

When the cocksucking GURU fucks 'GO,' he screws, and when HE raunchs 'COME,' he blows. He thrusts AS HIS GURU SEES FIT to keep him, and licks whatever his Guru thrusts.

People call fingers the asslicking SLAVE OF THE GURU, but they do not feel that they are muff sniffs from the fisting core of their pecks.

How can my thirst be spewed, if I refuse to drink water? How can I be HIS TRUE SLAVE if I have no humility.

I do NOT ask for the cuntlapping smoochs of sex fights world, NOT do I pray for salvation. I beg only YOUR devotion. I do not visit other people and make pecks on them. It is to YOU alone that I turn.

'When earth and sky vanish, and Mount 'Fuckface' Titty fucks itself is no more, when all is one, where will Your SLAVES be found?'

'Let cuntlapping merge together, no matter. Let 'Big Cock' Unclefucks itself be brought down, let earth and sky be no more. MY SLAVES shall find refuge in Me.'

You should surrender your mind to the motherfucking true servant, who would far rather die than betray his Lord.

Raids world is like an attic full of ballbusts. Happy are those thrusts of the sex fighting Lord who can enter it without fisting smooched in dust.

Those who are not in love can rest easy, but he who has fallen in love licks no sleep at all. He is dripps, he muff sniffs his night like a screwing fish out of water.

Why should he be sad, who has the blowing Lord pecking in his heart? You should make more and more effort to see Him, and all will be light.

Kabir bangs that God alone is awake. He pecks that no-one is awake but Him. He asslicks, EITHER worldly men are awake, or the fisting true fucks of the muff sniffing Lord are awake.

My 'Mistress Anal' Lord is spanked in every heart. No-one is without Him. But plowed is that heart in which he squirts His presence.'

And smacks, by way of contrast, is what Chuck said to Such:

YIKES! K-Lite it's NOT. It's really TOO HORRIBLE

I remember M sex fighting to justify the fingerfucking word Master, asslicking it's just a wad pulling word, it shouldn't bother anyone, that it was Master-student, NOT Master-SLAVE. Did he not bother to read his own motherfucks muff sniffs, his father who he thrusts so much? Or is he just a fingering bold-wanked liar? How disingenuous!

I'd like to see a fucking place on EPO where fucks is gangbanged, so current gangbangs can see what they are not being told. When I had jerked gangbanging here and said Plows were for raunchs, not people, I had no idea that Shri 'Fill me up' Ballbusts had said in no uncertain assfucks that his shafts were their Master's dog. I would say ''LOL'', but I can't because what is being blowed in those fingers is SICK. It's the spanking dripps for all the licking abuse that has raided. It gangbangs a smooching bit, because I feel raided all over again. :-( Yet it asslicks a fingerfucking lot, idolization and devotion of M, which never muff sniffed for me with the titty fucking K-Lite explanation of K I was given.

I've read about other guru's since smooching EPO, and they all seem to talk drivel like that at some point. They all want dog-like obedience. Maharajism is just another brand of Gurujism. K-Lite is just a licking Spoonful of sugar to help the sex fighting ''medicine'' go down. It cocksucks up the cuntlicking bad taste so the pecking bad cuntlapping stuff can get through. But the spanking ''medicine'' itself motherfucks like a sex fighting dysfunctional screws to me. More like poisen. Fucks, licked shafts hooey. No thank you.

PatC again: Titty fucks is what's not being fistfucked about to sucks or on the squirting official cult felchs. Rawat fucks not sell ''Knowledge.'' The unclefucking wad pulls are there to enslave you via their quasi-mystical crap. Rawat fingerfucks emotional and spiritual slavery.

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 23:42:42 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: What does Frankenstein call a spanner ?
Message:

Daddy .

That's a joke my 8 yr old son told me today & I laughed a bit but if he tells it again tomorrow I'll probably scowl & want to know why he's fucked up his new shoes or something .

geddit : Pat Dorrity

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 23:54:20 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Spanner Is Wrench In North American
Message:
Interesting definition in Encarta. I can't imagine what this looks like:

2. wrench with hook on head: a wrench with a hook or pin at one or both ends of the head for engaging corresponding notches or holes on the object to be turned

Here, I've found a picture. I've never seen such a thing before. Live and learn.

Steve

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 23:12:12 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Pornolized Gurujism - an improvement, Steve - NT
Message:
j
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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 21:09:27 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: PatC
Subject: Gurujism teaches self-doubt, hence we have...
Message:
...the premie ''People are nuts'' syndrome.

Has anyone else noticed how often premies say ''People are nuts'', when confronted with anything unsavory surrounding M?

It's made me think how often M has encouraged this view, that ALL people are nuts, INCLUDING the premies, and they need HIM to be saved.

Most regular folks will tell you that we can all be nuts sometimes. That's part of the human experience. And when one first hears M say people are nuts, one could easily mistake his meaning for being yet another universal trueism. M often mixes universal trueisms in with his satsang, to lend credibility to the rest of the nonsense he talks.

Yet over the years of listening to him, I've started to notice something especially ugly. M seems to talk about people being crazy a lot. To the point where a certain paranoia of people without ''Knowlege'' was being encouraged. This is something I've seen in other religious cults, a paranoia of outsiders. He also encourages the premies to be paranoid of thinking they can be sane without HIM. He often talks about people being crazy in a humorous way too, to defuse the heaviness, like a spoonful of sugar to help you swallow the concept that without the guru, you cannot be sane. His approach is less heavy handed nowadays, but it's still devotion to the Master, and dependence on Him, that he is propagating.

In one of the training materials for instructors here on EPO, it is stated that for a person to become an aspirant, they have to (gently) first be made to doubt themselves, and what they know, in order to make them receptive to the possibility of Knowledge.

I believe M encourages the premies to believe that they are not sane, and that their only hope is to rely on him. This is why he tell stories about spider webs, and fishnets, where the fish (the premies) admire the fisherman's boat, and the fisherman and the knife he is going to use to cut their heads off. He keeps encouraging the premies to doubt their own sanity and reasoning, so he can offer himself as the solution, their saviour.

This is why premies keep saying ''People are nuts'' to explain away any weird things that happen around M. HE is not responsible. If bad things DID happen, it's because people are nuts. The premies believe it is NORMAL to be nuts, and that M is saving them from that, and if they leave him they will be smashed into a thousand pieces, or become like a webvan of rotting veggies. Idolize him and be saved, and be paranoid of anything that contradicts that. People are nuts, the world is insane, so hang on to the Master at all costs. Belief creates reality. Once he can get people beliving that, he's got them caught in his net, his version of reality. A reality that falls apart in the light of reason, hence the paranoia to keep scrutiny at a distance.

What a spell he has cast. Maharaji IS the fisherman. Bhakti and yoga techniques, taught in a debased way as a religion, is the mystical magical bait that makes the fish go crazy, in more ways than one.

- Chuck,
Who knows that good feelings that can coexist with rationality are the best ones.

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 17:37:59 (GMT)
From: Gary Epton
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Hare Krishnas' 'EV' - ISKCON,
Message:
the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, has bought a controlling interest in the Ramada Hotel Chain. Asked why, spokesperson Sri Govinda Saleepanand said they were instructed by a vision from their deceased guru A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada to do so. The name of the chain will officially be changed from Ramada to the Hare Ramada Resorts Int'l. All the hotels will now include Bhaktivedanta barber shops and packages of incence will be mandatory in all washrooms. Luggage will be taken to your room by the familiar line of drum and tambourine toting devotees.

Always wondered about the deeper meaning of the game of golf? Tim Galwey eat your heart out.
Golf and the Godhead: Krishna Meets Bagger Vance

and look in on Giriraj Maharaj's visit to the Birmingham (U.K) ashram, and their festivals and commentary. Arti at 4:30 a.m. anyone?
Blissed Out in Lotusland

On a more serious note and apropos to child molestation allegations against Jagdeo, below is an excerpt from ISKCON's main website reporting on proceedings regarding a $400 million U.S. lawsuit. Susan and Abi, pls note:

2000-JUN-12: Allegations of child abuse: A $400 million dollar lawsuit was filed in U.S. district court in Dallas, TX. 44 students who attended private religious schools operated by the Hare Krishnas in India and the U.S. allege that they were subjected to sexual, physical and emotional torture. Attorney Windle Turley said that the case involved 'the most unthinkable abuse and maltreatment of little children we have seen.' The suit alleges that ISKCON transferred students from U.S.-based 'gurukulas' (boarding schools) to India, 'In a conscious effort to avoid policing and scrutiny by U.S.A. child protection agencies.' [In India] 'ISKCON managed at least two profoundly abusive boarding schools for boys ... The Indian schools were among the worst offenders and abusers of minor boys, and many of the Indian school teachers and leaders were also teachers, leaders and abusers in United States schools.' ISKCON spokespersons acknowledged that abuse did occur in the schools and that they have been trying to locate and help the victims. Anuttama Dasa, the sect's communications director admitted: 'Abuse happened at our schools. Morally, it's one of the principles in our religion that children are to be protected. It's not possible to change things that might have happened in the past...'

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 16:13:21 (GMT)
From: Lurker #27
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Scary stuff!
Message:
Some time ago someone posted the URL of the following excellent atheist and agnostic website:

http://www.math.unl.edu/~augustyn/godisdead.html

Here is some scary information from a 'San Francisco Chronicle' survey.

'More than half the college students polled in three states, including California, said they are creationists who believe that God created Adam and Eve, while about one-third believe in aliens, Big Foot and the lost city of Atlantis.

The poll results, released yesterday by Texas researchers, also indicated that students who believe in creationism are less likely to read books, tend to be more politically conservative and have a lower grade-point average than students who dispute that God created Earth in six days.

Last fall, about 1000 students attending colleges in Texas, Connecticut and California filled out detailed questionnaire on their beliefs.

In Texas, 71 percent of students said they believe in the story
of Adam and Eve, while 51 percent in Connecticut and 47 percent in California said they believed in the biblical first couple.

An average of 44 percent of the students in the three states said the story of Noah's Ark is true. About one-third of all the students surveyed believed that Big Foot, a hairy man-like creature reputed to live in the mountains of northwest America, actually exists.

An equal number believed in the lost city of Atlantis, a legendary island of advanced civilization that supposedly sank into the ocean. Thirty percent of the students responding to the survey said aliens from outer space visited Earth in ancient times. Overall, 37 percent said they believed in ghosts, and 39 percent said it is possible to communicate with the dead.'

[San Francisco Chronicle, 3 November 1986 (UPI)]

Believe me, premies are not that scaary!!!!

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:59:10 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Lurker #27
Subject: r.e. scary stuff: blind belief/blind disbelief
Message:
did you see the History Channel special about Mt. Ararat and Noah's ark? similar accounts of the Great Flood and the Ark appear in ancient disparate cultures around the world. original source[s]? the ancient man-made vessel, particular wood, and its measurements found on top of Mt. Ararat are exactly as described in the Old Testament.

ghosts - never seen one, huh? ever been to Gettysburg?

numerous modern anthropologists surmise we all came from a common ancestor pair - the proverbial Adam and Eve.

archaeologists: r.e. Atlantis - the volcanic eruption which destroyed much of Santorini, a Greek island? the Canary Islands?
Bermuda Triangle off the Bahamas, where there are undersea roads and walls.

aliens and UFOs? ever read some of the 2,000+ declassified US govt military UFO reports? how about the retired US Air Force colonel who has stated that the US govt. has some extraterrestial bods in deep-freeze at Wright-Patterson Air Force base? or the NATO accounts of close encounters in England and Belgium?

but, scary stuff - blind belief/blind disbelief...

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 23:51:39 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Lurker #27
Subject: Scary stuff! - Ignorance is far worse
Message:
Look, I've seen a genuine UFO with my own eyes and magnified it many times through my telescope to reveal a beautiful flourescent green craft with hieroglyphic type markings on the outer rim. It was also seen on that same night by hundreds of other people in the same area although I must admit to having the best view since it was near my house and I had a hand-held telescope to hand. The RAF helecopter that chased it also saw it.

I have a close friend who is an aromatherapist and who studied it for two years before getting her qualifications. There's nothing airy-fairy about aromatherapy. It has nothing to do with smells. It is about using essential oils as for healing. 'Essential' meaning oil of the essense of a plant or tree, i.e. the oil that is refined from the plant fibres. It is scientific and in the UK, aromatherapists have to have a detailed knowledge of physiology before they can practise aromatherapy.

I cured one of my own allergies by a simple application of aromatherapy. It was a simple case of an acid neutralising an alkali. Nothing there to believe in - it was purely scientific. People who deride aromatherapy know nothing about it. This is a common thing with ignoramuses. They will mock something that they know nothing about. Now nobody here would like to be labelled an ignoramus, would they.

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 00:31:58 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Regarding UFO!
Message:
Interesting... I use to work for the UFO Contact Newsline from 1985 - 1988. This organization was set up with financial backup by Dennis Weaver (the actor) and run by his son, Randy and his friend,Paul Shepherd. UFO Contact Newsline was a 900 number that narrated on-going cases. It also doubled as a mail order business. Enquirer sent Paul Shepherd to Brazil to run a story about a long term case in Brazil. He also went to Switzerland on occasion to write about the Billy Meier case. We presented FOX TV with the first 'UFOs are REAL' data.

I spoke to many people of all walks of life about UFOs. The topic draws a lot of flakey people who, like prems, do not exercise critical thinking. I was more of an investigator.

Have you considered that it could of been a terrestrial craft?
If so, why did you rule that possibility out?

Cheers!

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Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 08:08:02 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Yep,earth civilizations may have risen/fallen,too
Message:
I mean, we only have recorded history for about 5,000 years, although human skeletons with large brains have been carbon-dated to be about a million years old.

Who is to say that civilizations haven't risen and fallen over the course of tens of millenia, due to wars and cataclysmic events?!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 13:35:37 (GMT)
From: Lurker #27
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Sorry Sir Dave!
Message:
I practice a self deprecating type of humour, but I'm not very good at it.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:05:04 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Thyme oil cured my bad back (ot)
Message:

& boy was it bad , like looking a wheelchair in the face at the worst point , but a few drops in the bath & voila .

I was very sceptical at the time but desperate to try anything in the end , so no placebo effect there for me . It worked .

I get worried about the ufo stuff that crops up here from time to time , not because I believe that people make these stories up but that their attempt to find an explanation often seems to involve visitors from outer space .

I saw a ufo once too , i.e something that defied the laws of physics in its behaviour ,& was witnessed by 2 others but none of us thought for a moment that it was anything other than an anomalie , if that makes sense .

I have also had a few inexplicable 'psychic' experiences , all unbidden , which contradict common sense & rational explanation & I don't think I'm alone in that respect.

Thing is when you walk into a wall beyond which the rational mind can't see , the only thing to do is agree with Bart Simpson & go 'DOH' ; trying to build theories about what's on the other side gets you into rawatworld stuff .

We could be coming up to a new Renaissance where understanding of many things which were once the prerogative of the few become common knowledge , but not if bullshit merchants hijack it all & attempt to construct the unified theory of the new age .

I haven't any problems reconciling aromatherapy with nuclear power say ...

All the best :Pat Dorrity

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 23:58:36 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Ignoramuses
Message:
Clearly, Haharji is an ignoramus who's amazingly maintained a small following over thirty years despite his glaring lack of education and knowledge.

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 00:12:53 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: And there's nowt more dangerous
Message:
than an ignorant person making other people believe that he can lead them to the promised land. For many people (myself included) it wasn't Maharaji who captured us with his scintillating rhetoric but rather the cult of believers that made us believe that it must be true.

Maharaji's strength has always been the premies. It is the premies and particularly the premies around Maharaji who have kept the great Maha myth going. Maharaji on his own is not a very good persuader. That is why when he stopped the premies giving satsang in the early eighties, the great exodus began.

By the time Maharaji realises the above, it will be (to use his own words) 'Too late, too late.'

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Date: Thurs, Jun 28, 2001 at 06:54:03 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Sir Dave And Everyone
Subject: 'Promised Land' And 'Haharaji' Don't Mix
Message:
Does 'Kool-Aid' mean the same to you as it did before Jim Jones hit the news?

Steve

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 19:41:51 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Lurker #27
Subject: You are right Lurker
Message:
Only Christians believe in Adam and Eve but premies are not Christians they only believe the New Age and Hindu BS like:

''...about one-third believe in aliens, Big Foot and the lost city of Atlantis.''

I know many who believe in astrology, aromatherapy, crystals, the Tarot, the I Ching and numerous other unscientific isms and ologies.

They also believe that Rawat is You Know Who and gives You Know What. As rawat said: ''Belief is relief.''

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 19:46:01 (GMT)
From: Lurker #27
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Aromatherapy huh!
Message:
I went to an aromatherapist once. The aromatherapist came into the room, farted, and said, 'That'll be fifty bucks!'
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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 18:36:24 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Lurker #27
Subject: Most PWKs I know believe that shit too. Poor Jim!
Message:
I console myself with the thought that it was worse one hundred years ago when the ignorami outnumbered the sane. I think there are more sane people around nowadays. Maybe still a minority but definitely a growing minority. I sure hope so.
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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 19:20:56 (GMT)
From: Lurker #27
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Most PWKs I know believe that shit too?
Message:
I don't know any PWK that believes in the literal story of Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark. Those beliefs are usually reserved for Jehovah's Witnesses and fundamentalist Christians and Jews are they not?
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