Ex-Premie Forum 6 Archive
From: Jul 14, 2001 To: Jul 28, 2001 Page: 3 of: 5


wolfie -:- Premiemeeting for Mainzfeedback -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 05:31:47 (EDT)
__ such -:- danke, wolfie [nt] -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 18:03:25 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Re: Premiemeeting for Mainzfeedback -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 17:27:52 (EDT)
__ Way -:- Re: Premiemeeting for Mainzfeedback -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:17:07 (EDT)
__ __ wolfie -:- sidestory for way and everyone -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 11:18:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ Way -:- Oh, oh! LEGAL ISSUE HERE!! -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 11:45:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ wolfie -:- Re: Oh, oh! LEGAL ISSUE HERE!! -:- Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 02:49:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Interesting point abut legalities,Way -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 12:11:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Interesting point abut legalities,Way -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 14:40:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ wolfie -:- Re: Interesting point abut legalities,Way -:- Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 03:11:57 (EDT)
__ dv -:- Nice Post, Wolfie! -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 09:20:06 (EDT)
__ nagual don puerco -:- Re: Premiemeeting for Mainzfeedback -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:12:12 (EDT)
__ __ Francesca :C) -:- A figument of your imagination [nt] -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 13:49:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ don puerco -:- Re: A figument of your imagination -:- Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 06:53:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ don puerco -:- Re: A figument of your imagination -:- Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 06:43:53 (EDT)
__ __ wolfie -:- Re: Premiemeeting for Mainzfeedback -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:55:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: Premiemeeting for Mainzfeedback -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 17:33:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ wolfie -:- shows -:- Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 03:53:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ la-ex -:- How about 'What's MY Line?' nt -:- Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 00:20:56 (EDT)

snake -:- longing -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 05:23:00 (EDT)
__ JohnT -:- growing -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 17:43:17 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- I didn't realize snakes... -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 14:43:07 (EDT)
__ salam -:- CRACK! -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 12:05:29 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- Quick, send a Christian, it's the Mujahadeen. -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 19:24:40 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Did you get that out a Christmas cracker? (nt) -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:32:52 (EDT)
__ Abi -:- fundamentalism -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:05:35 (EDT)

Mala -:- Whye -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 05:19:14 (EDT)
__ Steve -:- Wanka Tanka, Cerise David W you -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 14:15:48 (EDT)
__ Way -:- Because -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 13:17:25 (EDT)
__ David -:- Re: Whye -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:22:19 (EDT)
__ Abi -:- Individualism -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:07:42 (EDT)
__ __ Passing Through -:- Abi's best of Forum -:- Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 18:24:38 (EDT)
__ __ Passing Through -:- Go this way -:- Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 18:14:56 (EDT)

Selene -:- from a book I'm reading -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 22:58:18 (EDT)
__ SF -:- a copyright question ot -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 23:28:52 (EDT)
__ __ salam -:- you're in trouble girl -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 12:11:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- thankie salam and all -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 14:53:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ salam -:- it's moments like these -:- Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 12:03:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- we could sit back -:- Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 13:36:18 (EDT)
__ __ Forum God +) -:- Re: a copyright question ot -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:31:18 (EDT)
__ __ JohnT -:- You did OK -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 05:13:01 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- no 'bad here day' -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:49:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: no 'bad here day' -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 17:02:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ suchabananer -:- knock, knock -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 17:57:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Knock, Knock [nt] -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 19:44:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- who dat? [nt] -:- Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 03:52:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: who dat? -:- Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 18:00:57 (EDT)

Timmi -:- and another thing......... -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:28:57 (EDT)
__ Francesca :C) -:- I received K in 1973 -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 14:03:10 (EDT)
__ such -:- maybe, Fakiranand? -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:47:14 (EDT)

Jim -:- A challenge to all premies (reposted from LG) -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 20:40:17 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- My response to the LG replies so far -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:43:40 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- My challenge to Jim. -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 19:37:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- If I were posting regularly I'd LOL or something [nt] -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 19:38:57 (EDT)
__ __ Bjørn E -:- Challenge for Jim Part 1 -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 17:54:55 (EDT)
__ Catweasel -:- AAAAAAAGHHHHH -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:33:48 (EDT)
__ __ dv -:- What's wrong Cat,can't handle it? nt -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 09:24:45 (EDT)
__ Charlie -:- M's definition of a cult -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:46:46 (EDT)
__ __ Francesca :C) -:- Could you give me the source -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 13:45:39 (EDT)
__ Bjørn E -:- Who is going to pay the bill, Jim? -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 03:55:47 (EDT)
__ __ CW -:- Re: Who is going to pay the bill, Jim? -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:39:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- For the record -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:41:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: For the record -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 18:08:16 (EDT)
__ __ Abi -:- and I feel sorry for you -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 05:54:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ Bjørn E -:- You don't need Abi, I am doing fine -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 08:13:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Fuck off, Bjorn. FA PLEASE deal with... -:- Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 15:55:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Abi -:- I've been meaning to say this for a while -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 21:16:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ David -:- Please read this -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 08:42:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- TO BJORN -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 08:35:20 (EDT)
__ Perfessor suchabananer -:- gee, too bad I was a phlegmie [nt] -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:35:25 (EDT)
__ la-ex -:- Re: A challenge to all premies (reposted from LG) -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 23:04:10 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- This is a really GOOD idea! [nt] -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:40:58 (EDT)
__ Marianne -:- Fabulous idea - do it in LA -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 22:14:30 (EDT)
__ Deboah -:- Re: A challenge to all premies (reposted from LG) -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:23:33 (EDT)
__ __ suchabananius -:- like, those about to die salute... [nt] -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:37:51 (EDT)
__ Dermot -:- Would be cool but -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 20:55:56 (EDT)

Bin Liner -:- Far Out..... I've just watched -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 20:34:24 (EDT)
__ such -:- coffee! stolen moments -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:31:16 (EDT)
__ Dermit -:- And Bin Liner... -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:09:11 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Re: Far Out..... I've just watched -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:04:56 (EDT)

la-ex -:- Can someone explain tht 'foot' thing to me again? -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 19:40:44 (EDT)
__ such -:- kinky Hindu foot fetish [nt] -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:25:52 (EDT)
__ Timmi -:- Re: Can someone explain tht 'foot' thing to me -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:12:30 (EDT)

McGruff -:- As we say in New Haven -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 17:49:27 (EDT)
__ Dermot -:- And gues who -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 20:41:25 (EDT)
__ bill -:- if you are in New Haven you ARE near [nt] -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 19:08:00 (EDT)

McGruff -:- I LOVE IT! THANKS FOR THE LAFF -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 15:20:51 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Dave, -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:42:08 (EDT)
__ __ Dave -:- Already did it last night -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 08:35:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Thanks Dave. -:- Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 09:03:15 (EDT)
__ bill burke -:- instructor John? [nt] -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 19:08:59 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- FUCK OFF, You... -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 18:30:02 (EDT)
__ Jerry -:- You're welcome, asshole -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 17:13:07 (EDT)
__ anon -:- you so so funny character, too! hehehehe [nt] -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 17:03:21 (EDT)
__ Eyepoker -:- What the fuck -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:59:25 (EDT)

gerry -:- do premies feel 'constant bliss?' -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 12:54:38 (EDT)
__ sUcH -:- 'constant bliss?' where's that action? -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:53:40 (EDT)
__ Steve M -:- do premies feel 'constant bliss?' [nt] -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 14:55:22 (EDT)
__ Timmi -:- Re: do premies feel 'constant bliss?' -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 13:49:55 (EDT)
__ __ deborah -:- Re: do premies feel 'constant bliss?' -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:59:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ Timmi -:- Re: do premies feel 'constant bliss?' -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 20:49:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: do premies feel 'constant bliss?' -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:13:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Timmi -:- Re: do premies feel 'constant bliss?' -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:16:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: do premies feel 'constant bliss?' -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:29:09 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- Timmi, that's Not venting! called Truth. [nt] -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:56:21 (EDT)
__ __ Selene -:- same here -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 14:06:13 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- ExPremies Links -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:21:46 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Merci Monsieur. -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:46:11 (EDT)
__ magiclara -:- Re: ExPremies Links -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 20:08:12 (EDT)
__ such -:- bienfait, J-M! [nt] -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:24:19 (EDT)
__ DepressedaboutMJ -:- GULP..well here goes -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 13:38:04 (EDT)
__ __ magiclara -:- Re: GULP..well here goes -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 20:06:52 (EDT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Hey Rich, thanks for sharing -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 19:24:35 (EDT)
__ __ Richard -:- Welcome aboard Rich -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:34:48 (EDT)
__ __ suchabanana -:- cheer up, Rich. you're recovering! -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:32:52 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Hi Rich, Welcome... -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 14:37:57 (EDT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Hey there Rich -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 14:29:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Oh, I know you! -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 14:36:46 (EDT)
__ Jiminny Critic -:- Anths poetry site..cool(nt) -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:16:00 (EDT)
__ magiclara -:- Re: ExPremies Links -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:04:20 (EDT)
__ __ JHB -:- Re: ExPremies Links -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 13:22:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- I remember it well John -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:49:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: ExPremies Links -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 19:08:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: ExPremies Links -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:36:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: ExPremies Links -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 17:11:52 (EDT)

Abi -:- Back off EV! -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 08:14:45 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Re: Back off EV! -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:11:47 (EDT)
__ CW -:- Dialogue is good -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:23:55 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Catweasal...Leave Abi Alone!! n/t -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 12:01:17 (EDT)
__ __ Abi -:- Re: Dialogue is good -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:27:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ CW -:- Re: Dialogue is good -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:52:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Abi -:- a challenge for you CW -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 21:51:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Cat, Your Dialogue is BAAAAD! -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 11:20:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Abi -:- CW the helpful -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 21:53:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ CW -:- I didn't reply to you. -:- Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 18:15:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Forgot to say ... -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 13:07:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Talk to your representative ASAP -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 13:04:58 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- Back off EV! -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 08:52:18 (EDT)
__ __ Abi -:- Re: Back off EV! -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:23:26 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- PS, Abi -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 08:55:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ Abi -:- thanks -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:24:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Don't you want to write a new chapter -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:16:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: Thoughtful of you, JM -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:10:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ DepressedaboutMJ -:- GULP..Well..here I go... -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 14:10:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ abi -:- Re: Don't you want to write a new chapter -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:14:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- EV's behavior is unscrupulous -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:29:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I agree, Marianne -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:59:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: I agree, Marianne -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 13:07:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- That's what I was thinking, Marianne...n/t -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 14:45:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Maybe writing all this would help ? -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:23:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Abi -:- Re: Maybe writing all this would help ? -:- Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:28:19 (EDT)


Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 05:31:47 (EDT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Premiemeeting for Mainzfeedback
Message:
Hi everyone,

cause I've had heard, that the premies here were frustrated from what happened at the program in Mainz, I decided to go to a feedbackmeeting. I had nothing better and nothing worse to do on that evening.

There were 9 people including me. The moderator started talking about, that he had already gathered some critics about the Programm and that he wants to write a letter to MJ with the hope that things will change in the future. Then he offerd us a letter with an Interview with the new german registration coordinator. I flew cross the lines and sorry, it was all too cheap, friendly but empty, without saying anything besides that in the future we will improve everything.
After the interview then was read in a rollplay to everyone, I hardly could sit on my chair anymore.
Everyone was really serious about the contens, I did't not know whether to cry or to laugh. There are people with the aim to enjoy life and develop human potential and they are too shy to realize and to judge what they like or don't like. I could read in their faces that they don't accept their own impressions, this is called confusion.
But premies even can accept, that they are confused, cause once you've got knowledge it's a shame to be confused.
Then comes my part. I said, that I'm not here to to read a soft washed interview. I told them, that it is clear for me that, that craziness will go on and that according to my state of information MJ is the one, who is responsible for
how things are going. MJ even said I want to happen things my way. Of course I got emotional and once I've got emotional,I outed myself in the group as a person that blames MJ and that now I'm the one who will criticise MJ, I'm now on the way where I want clear anserws to clear questions. MJ can not be called a teacher, when he allows not that we proof him.
Okay that all was a little bit too much for the moderator. He comes up wit the same stupid explanations I already knew since ages. MJ is only responsibel for this sacred knowledge and so on.
Then everyone was asked, to talk for 3 Minutes of their impressions of the programm in Mainz.
One woman, who had knowledge since a month or two said, when this programm would have happend before she got K, for sure she would not have asked for it anymore. Another person who had K since two months, said that it is really unsure, whether he goes again to a programm. Then there were the funny statments, it was okay but the air condition was to cold, or the mineral water in the lobby was to expensive, the videos were too long. All in all, they more or less agree to the fact that this programm was not enjoyabel, okay MJ was okay but after all the concentration was gone.
Then the moderator read an letter with some critics he had gatherd by talking with premies on the phone a few days before. He had gatherd a lot of little facts but the message somehow was clear that the programm was a little bit too much and that he personnally was ashammed cause he had invited 4 or 5 guests. He declared, that he wants to write this letter to MJ and he is sure that MJ will recieve the letter and nearly evryone in the room accepted this besids me. I asked him, why he is so sure that MJ will recieve this mostly funny bunny letter. He told me that he knew some people who have forsured him, that MJ will recieve this letter. I asked for the names of the people who can forsure a thing like that. He said I would not believe him anyway and so he will not tell the names and anyway I disturbe everything. I said I'm sorry this is too naiv and I think I've said what I wanted and so far things are okay for me.
Then we had a break and there was the chance for me to tell my beloved story, how the perfect Master and his wife went to a phsychiatrist to cure their relationship. Of course the discussion went on, but now I have to do something else before my lunchbreak.
I can tell everyone, that since I started to go away and being aware of it, I really feel better and more myself.

thanks everyone.......ciao ...wolfie

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 18:03:25 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: danke, wolfie [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 17:27:52 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Re: Premiemeeting for Mainzfeedback
Message:
Thanks. I really enjoy hearing what you have to say.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:17:07 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Re: Premiemeeting for Mainzfeedback
Message:
Thanks, Wolfie, for being brave enough to attend that meeting and to talk so openly with the premies. And thanks for the report. Very interesting, and entertaining. Your English is very good, very easy to understand, with lots of humor - some on purpose and some accidental.

It seems like they are still presenting the aspirants with a watered-down version of Maharaji and Knowledge and when these new premies go to a devotional program, they are unpleasantly surprised. Funny!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 11:18:34 (EDT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: sidestory for way and everyone
Message:
Hi,

this one Lady, who had recieved K recently in Vienna(the new DVD initation),she felt a little bit sorry for me, because she understood, that I only have complains. She said to me it appears to her, that because of the past, it seems that I'm entangeled very much and now I rebell against my fatherfigure. The funny thing is she already is sinkings deeper in the scene, while she still believes, she has nothing to do with it. She explained, she would go away before she gets involved in this whole trip. And the most funny thing is, that the premie moderator was or is still her psychatrist to give her support after she got divorced. So her psychatrist brought her in contact with MJ and at his place there are the videoevenings. So her mentaldoctor brought her in the scene and his influence still works on her, I could see this, but I haven't said anything. So things would be funny, if it would not be a tragedy.

So I enjoy to be in the state of Bardho not being a premie and not being an ex-premie, but I prefer the company of cultfree people ......wolfie......I love to be cultfree!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 11:45:22 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Oh, oh! LEGAL ISSUE HERE!!
Message:
Wolfie,

You might consider alerting the mental health authorities in your city that a psychiatrist is telling his patients about a certain religion and getting them into a cult. I've heard about the German attitude toward Scientology and it would be good for people to know about Elan Vital, as well.

In the USA, it is considered highly unethical for a mental health professional to instruct a patient about any certain religious organizations. That is not what a psychiatrist should be doing. An American professional medical health doctor would probably lose his license if he did what that premie is doing in your city.

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Date: Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 02:49:41 (EDT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re: Oh, oh! LEGAL ISSUE HERE!!
Message:
Hi
I know that, but I think it's different here in Germany. I've heard, that in the States it could be allready a problem, when the psychiatrist and his/her client meet together on a party coincidencly.
It is true, that nearly all of the aspirantes they have here came through his praxis.
Once a fiend of mine, a oldtimer premie asked me whether it is good to sent his daughter, who has real mental problems to this guy because he is a premiepsychiatrist. I told him that according to my opinion, this is sureley not very helpful.

ciao ...wolfie

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 12:11:08 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Interesting point abut legalities,Way
Message:
Way-

That does bring up an interesting point.

Has this issue ever been brought up on the forum with answers from mental health professionals?

It would be another thing for people to think about as they consider inviting aspirants to a program, or an aspirant who is considering the knowledge possibility.

Any legal precedents from other cults?

This question and professional opinions might make an interesting category on EPO, if it hasn't already been covered.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 14:40:26 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Re: Interesting point abut legalities,Way
Message:
Hi all,

If not illegal, it is unethical for a professional mental health care provider to introduce someone to a religion or cult.

In the US, they could lose their license to practice. It's immoral, too. That poor woman, she's got the double whammy: under the control of her shrink AND the cult leader!

Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 03:11:57 (EDT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Interesting point abut legalities,Way
Message:
Hi,

I said it before in a post to Way, the legal situation is differnet here in Germany. The drama is, that that psyhiatrist thinks he is those people doing a great favour. You know, he brings them in contact with the one and only thing. He himself believes, that he can reform the cult to a better place. My discussion with him was, that nothing will really change cause not only the organisation is responsible, it is MJ who is responsible for how things are and will be. He is the big Boss, but this is not possible for him to understand, for him MJ is holy and this makes him, sorry to say this, to a very weak psyhiatrist.

ciao ...wolfie

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 09:20:06 (EDT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Nice Post, Wolfie!
Message:
In spite of the spelling! :}
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:12:12 (EDT)
From: nagual don puerco
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Re: Premiemeeting for Mainzfeedback
Message:
my god wolfie, you are really busy....
i already told you i agree with most of the things you said in your
previous post..by the way i liked the layout of forum5god much better,
i been away for a while and i come back to see the stars displaced and
the smell of a world that burns....too kozmic 4 u , i guess...
i have a real good time since the program
---
lots of nice incidents
happening..if you get your head out of that elan vital based experience of knowledge....by the way who is guru maharaj ji ????
any clues ??
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 13:49:08 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: nagual don puerco
Subject: A figument of your imagination [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 06:53:04 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Re: A figument of your imagination
Message:
hi francesca, nice to see y'er still around...where actually ????
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Date: Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 06:43:53 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Re: A figument of your imagination
Message:
hi francesca, nice to see y'er still around..
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:55:00 (EDT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: nagual don puerco
Subject: Re: Premiemeeting for Mainzfeedback
Message:
Hi don puerco,

Guru Maharji is a mythos and the person behind, in our case Mr. Prem Pal Rawat, tries to make us belief that he could be identified with the mythos. Maybe there is something like a Guru Mahraji, anyway you know there are more than 100 still in India. Would be nice to bring them all together in a TV-show. Who is the real one?

ciao........wolfi......not so serious..............

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 17:33:09 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Re: Premiemeeting for Mainzfeedback
Message:
Hi Wolfie. I was thinking about that, myself. Maharaji going on the game show: To Tell The Truth.

Have you ever heard of that show?

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Date: Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 03:53:43 (EDT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: shows
Message:
Hi,

we here have a very famous show, whether some sort of famous guy can manage in 2 hours to bring 100 indien computerfreaks on stage singing a strange song, or .....20 husbands with a tatoo of their wifes somewhere on their skins...and so on.
Maybe a quiz would be nice ....with typical questions....who can chang A- Bombs into flowers...or who had come right in time to save the planet.....and what would have happend if he would have come one year later......and so on......ciao ......wolfie

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Date: Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 00:20:56 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: How about 'What's MY Line?' nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 05:23:00 (EDT)
From: snake
Email: None
To: All
Subject: longing
Message:
The longing for the master comes from such a deep place that either adoration or criticism does not matter .
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 17:43:17 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: snake
Subject: growing
Message:
The wisest snake that grows can't help but grieve
(Though stronger, brighter in his colouring)
Familiar comfort of old tight sleeve,
Now lost, with soiled and brittle patterning.

Not worn dead skin, but inner ghosts I shed,
And in my shedding, greatest suffering;
Unwonted ghost of past illusion's dead.
No greater pain than lost awakening.

No greater joy than seeing world anew!
So for dead ghost we'll have an Irish wake
And bury him by Churchyard's poison Yew
And for his headstone this inscription make...

   Here lies poor hungry ghost; the more he fed,
   The more he starved; so he's most grateful dead.

JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 14:43:07 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: snake
Subject: I didn't realize snakes...
Message:
The longing for the master comes from such a deep place that either adoration or criticism does not matter .


---

have longings for 'the master.' Interesting. Maharaji gives knowledge to serpents now, too?

Just wondering....

BTW, keep your guru loving statements out of our forum, please!
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 12:05:29 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: snake
Subject: CRACK!
Message:
Now look what've done.

Please have a warning before posting profound things. Am on borrowed time.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 19:24:40 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Quick, send a Christian, it's the Mujahadeen.
Message:
Salam salam,

where ya been? Wozappenin?

God punished me recently by striking my computer with a bolt of lighting.

Anth, getting cosmic again after talking to King Richard the Second.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:32:52 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: snake
Subject: Did you get that out a Christmas cracker? (nt)
Message:
The longing for the master comes from such a deep place that either adoration or criticism does not matter .


---

or did you realise it all on your own?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:05:35 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: snake
Subject: fundamentalism
Message:
and dictatorships are anti-democratic. The desire for a 'master' is a warped symptom of unhealthy patriarchical power.

No thanks

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 05:19:14 (EDT)
From: Mala
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Whye
Message:
I am curious regarding your passion to create such a sight. As a new premie I percieve that what Maharaji has to offer is a technique that is simple and non political. In fact, it could be argued that such techniques are purely an individual 's choice whether to pass their time in this manner or not. Tell me, why do you need to spend your time attemtping to influence the thought of the wider community in the manner you do? All I can assume is that you have very little to do with your time or that you have something inside yourself that you have not yet faced. Why not take your projections inward and set yourself free of such disempowering torment. If you are into knowledge practice it, if not, don't , sounds pretty simple to me.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 14:15:48 (EDT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: Mala
Subject: Wanka Tanka, Cerise David W you
Message:
You're the fucker making complaints about spamming and Hate Clubs. You are so fucking obvious .

Hey asshole , look outside your window. Those men in white coats are coming to get you.

Now fuck off back to LG- share something positive and worthwhile.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 13:17:25 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Mala
Subject: Because
Message:
Dear Mala,

You have a legitimate question, and I will answer it, from my perspective. We maintain this site partly because of people like you who have recently been introduced to Maharaji and Knowledge, and for those who will in the future hear about Maharaji and Knowledge. We want everybody to be FULLY informed about what they are getting into.

You say that what Maharaji has to offer is a simple technique. But I advise you to be more vigilant. The four techniques do not belong to Maharaji. Hundreds of gurus are teaching them. Maharaji does not give these techniques to people unless they agree to accept him as their Master and to remain in touch with him, which ends up being a life-long acceptance of Maharaji and what he teaches.

When you were given the techniques of Knowledge, you were told that you must accept Rawat as the Master and stay in touch with him, weren't you? You probably weren't allowed to learn the techniques until you had already made an acceptance of Rawat as the Master.

So, what Maharaji is offering is not just a simple technique, like you say, but a meditation technique attached to a Master. You forgot to mention that part. Or are things different now? Please let us know if things are different now. Are new people told that they can enjoy this Knowledge regardless of their feelings about Maharaji?

When did you receive Knowledge? And where?

You do realize, don't you, that you are in a cult which is very similar to hundreds of other cults out there? Please read the Rick Ross website and other website which describes all these other cults, and compare them to what you are now involved with.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:22:19 (EDT)
From: David
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Mala
Subject: Re: Whye
Message:
Dear "snake" and "Mala", you are not a new premie so don't pretend you are. I would have thought people in NSW could do better than this.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:07:42 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Mala
Subject: Individualism
Message:
is the refuge of the irresponsible.
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Date: Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 18:24:38 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Abi's best of Forum
Message:
Abi's displaying typical cult behaviour, 'individualism is the refuge of the irresponsible'.
Don't be alone, conform, there is safety in numbers.
I vote it for Best of Forum.
Do any exes find Abi comment absurd or do you all agree?
If you disagree, what do you think about someone who can say such crap?
PT
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Date: Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 18:14:56 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Go this way
Message:
WAY says: You say that what Maharaji has to offer is a simple technique. But I advise you to be more vigilant. The four techniques do not belong to Maharaji. Hundreds of gurus are teaching them.

PT says: Maharaji makes it clear that the techniques have been shown for hundreds of years by many people.

Way says: M does not give these techniques to people unless they agree to accept him as their Master and to remain in touch with him, which ends up being a life-long acceptance of Maharaji and what he teaches.

PT says: Many students in many disciplines have a life long association with the person who teaches them.

Way says: When you were given the techniques of Knowledge, you were told that you must accept Rawat as the Master and stay in touch with him, weren't you? You probably weren't allowed to learn the techniques until you had already made an acceptance of Rawat as the Master.

PT says: M makes it clear from the beginning that you need guidance and encouragement from the teacher to get the most out of the techniques.

Way says: So, what Maharaji is offering is not just a simple technique, like you say, but a meditation technique attached to a Master. You forgot to mention that part. Or are things different now? Please let us know if things are different now. Are new people told that they can enjoy this Knowledge regardless of their feelings about Maharaji?

PT says: Those who want the techniques without M can get them from the hundreds of other teachers. Do they have any restrictions?

When did you receive Knowledge? And where?

Way says: You do realize, don't you, that you are in a cult which is very similar to hundreds of other cults out there? Please read the Rick Ross website and other website which describes all these other cults, and compare them to what you are now involved with.

PT says: Read the book 'Nologo' for the ultimate cult.

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 22:58:18 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: All
Subject: from a book I'm reading
Message:
Was going ot put this on AG but decided it's too on topic. Makes me wonder if the author was a premie or if this stuff is just so clearly obvious to most rational folks. The setting, a cult leader stepping down, retiring and giving his story :
======================begin==typos all mine====
As if people know anything about being a celebrated famous celebrity spiritual leader. As if any one of those people isn't already looking around for a new guru to make sense out of their risk-free boredm of a lifestyle while they watch the news on television and pass judgement on me.
People are all looking for that, a hand to hold. Reassurance. The promise that everything will be all right. That's all they wanted from me. Stressed, desperate, celebrated me. Under-pressure me. None of those people know the first thing about being a big, glamorous, big, charismatic, big role model.
from Survivor by chuck palahniuk

======end quote

This cracked me up. The whole premie speak about how hard it is for Maharaji. He might want a copy of this book, in case he ever retires and writes his memoirs - eeesssh.

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 23:28:52 (EDT)
From: SF
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: a copyright question ot
Message:
for the Forum God or anyone cept Glasser.
Is quoting here, from a book as I just did while giving credit to author, is that OK, legally? Does anyone know? People do it in Amazon reviews, etc. so I assume it's ok but am curious.
If I've been bad bad bad just delete the thread. :) oh NO never mind.
ok I think I'll wash my hair now.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 12:11:04 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: SF
Subject: you're in trouble girl
Message:
you mentioned charles the nameless in you're post. You will be sued hence after. Better start thinkung of writing what you owe in someones elses name, dah?

As long as you are not copying the whole thing you're ok. Also there is the 'far use' law. You can use material for educational purposes or within text. Check your local law. Google it.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 14:53:52 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: thankie salam and all
Message:
The book is educational allright. I was fairly sure it was OK.
hmm... do you know I had a premie tell me once, she worked with me, that she was going to name Maharaji as the beneficiary on her retirement plan?
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Date: Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 12:03:33 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: it's moments like these
Message:
that I wished I was a guru. sheesh.
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Date: Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 13:36:18 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: we could sit back
Message:
And wait for the (other people's) retirement to come in. At least she was one of the few premies to have one. ugh my head hurts thinking about the level of devotion people feel towards some guy who reminds them to breathe it's really all OK.
She was intensely devoted enough to follow through, that is for sure. But i just do not want to think she did that.
But then people have left money to pets. Don't even say it. :)
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:31:18 (EDT)
From: Forum God +)
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: SF
Subject: Re: a copyright question ot
Message:
Quoting from books has never been illegal. Copying the whole book out and reprinting it is.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 05:13:01 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: SF
Subject: You did OK
Message:
Copyright law is a bit of a battleground, but, broadly speaking, it is fair use to quote part of a work (or all of a small piece) for the purposes of criticism or comment, as you did above.

The author can have no cause for complaint (your comments were fair, and your use was fair) and can even regard your efforts as a form of advertising.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:49:35 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: SF
Subject: no 'bad here day'
Message:
for the Forum God or anyone cept Glasser.
Is quoting here, from a book as I just did while giving credit to author, is that OK, legally? Does anyone know? People do it in Amazon reviews, etc. so I assume it's ok but am curious.
If I've been bad bad bad just delete the thread. :) oh NO never mind.
ok I think I'll wash my hair now.


---

yer gonna wash that googoo right outa yer hair...wash that googoo right outa yer hair...wash that googoo right outa yer hair...and send him home to Delhi...

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 17:02:00 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Re: no 'bad here day'
Message:
I was humming the same song when I read her post. Funny guy, you.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 17:57:50 (EDT)
From: suchabananer
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: knock, knock
Message:
who's there?

Sam and Janet.

Sam and Janet who?

Sam and Janet Evening...

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 19:44:48 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: suchabananer
Subject: Knock, Knock [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 03:52:51 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: who dat? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 18:00:57 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Re: who dat?
Message:
Oh, you already heard that one.
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:28:57 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: and another thing.........
Message:
I am curious.....I asked my husband once, quite some time ago, from which Mahatma he had received knowledge. I was interested in K at that time, and the question was one of curiosity. Rawat was only about 15 at that time, and I knew my husband had gotten K from someone else. The odd thing was, he didn't answer me, and said something really vague about that mahatma having trouble later on. Is there any way to find out who was giving knowledge in what parts of the country and what times? My husband's vagueness keeps haunting me now. It is obviously a question he does not want to answer. Any ideas?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 14:03:10 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: I received K in 1973
Message:
Fakiranand was in LA in early 1973. Then Parlokanand came to Santa Cruz, and then went on tour through Colorado Springs, CO; Santa Fe, NM; Albuqerque, NM (where I received K in April 1973); (maybe some other places) and then Denver, CO. That was in the spring of 1973. During those years there were only a couple of mahatmas in the US at any given time. We were told to leave everything -- home, family, jobs, whatever -- and follow the mahatmas until we got K, since K was the most important thing and nothing else mattered.

Parlokanand also had trouble. Joe Whalen said he was sent to COLL (City of Love and Light) eventually and was no longer a mahatma. It was over some sort of sexual impropriety. He was only 19 when I got K.

--Francesca

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:47:14 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: maybe, Fakiranand?
Message:
I am curious.....I asked my husband once, quite some time ago, from which Mahatma he had received knowledge. I was interested in K at that time, and the question was one of curiosity. Rawat was only about 15 at that time, and I knew my husband had gotten K from someone else. The odd thing was, he didn't answer me, and said something really vague about that mahatma having trouble later on. Is there any way to find out who was giving knowledge in what parts of the country and what times? My husband's vagueness keeps haunting me now. It is obviously a question he does not want to answer. Any ideas?


---

incited by Raja ji [da lard's bro] for revenge, he and richard fletcher tried to kill a Detroit reporter who cream-pied m [da mahafakir hammered da dude's skull]. m. ordered mikey donner to 'get fakiranand out of the country' to cover it up and prevent US law authorities from apprehending them and a public presentation of the facts in court - and the international media.

Peace and cult entrails,

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 20:40:17 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: A challenge to all premies (reposted from LG)
Message:
It's abundantly obvious, to me at least, that there's really no talking to premies. Why? Because, as cult members, you've lost the ability to reason properly about your cult and its leader. Trust me, if you're ever lucky enough to escape, you won't need me or anyone else telling you that. The point will be so damn clear you'll be scratching your heads wondering how in the world you got sucked in so bad. Until then, though, discourse is impossible. You make no sense, you barely try to make sense. Really, when it comes right down to it, you might as well be drooling on your keyboards. Yes, it's that bad.

So, here's my challenge. How about putting together a three-person panel of sorts to arbitrate the single issue: is Maharaji a cult leader?

It could work like this. Consulting with one another, the ex's would seek one willing and acceptable candidate for the panel. I'm thinking someone like a university prof, theologian, whatever. Could be anyone. Only stipulation is that he or she must not be either a premie, past of present. The whole point of the exercise is to get some arm's length assessment of Maharaji, after all.

You premies would then do the same thing. You could pick anyone you want, providing, again, that they've never been affiliated with this group. Then, once these two panel members have been selected, they will, in turn, select the third member.

When that's done the next stage would be up to the panel itself. They could, if they like, request submissions from both sides. Evidence and arguments. They might then provide some means of reply and rebuttal, if they so choose. Alternatively, the panel might decide to do their own fact-finding based on whatever current and archival materials exist and are accessible via the various websites, etc. All up to the panel. (I figure if we're going to somehow rope three people into this curious 'public service' they might as well have the fun of determining some part of their own process at least.)

Ultimately, I'd hope, we get a decision: is Maharaji a cult leader or not?

Now, what is the benefit of this process? Well,, premies and exes have argued for years now about the fair meaning of various events, the reasonable inferences of things Maharaji's said and done and the appropriate standards of proof for this or that. Exes, like me at least, think you're all idiots or liars and you guys, for your part, call us bitter, blah-blah-blah's whose judgement is worthless. Fine. Let's turn to the outside world and see what they say.

It's time for you jokers to put your money where your mouth is. If you honestly believe, for example, that when Maharaji said 'x' it didn't really mean 'x', and that that's not just a deceptive lie from the mouth of dumbass cult member, you should be chomping at the bit to prove the point. This is your chance to prove that, as you've always maintained, we exes are unreasonable and unclear on the issues, unlike yourselves of course.

If you don't take up this challenge, however, I think the reason's painfully obvious. That is, that you don't reallly have any faith in the stupid, illogical bullshit you utter here or on F6 daily. There is no other acceptable reason and you know it.

So what say you guys? Talk about it amongst yourselves and let's get the ball rolling. I
've already got a candidate in mind I'm eagre to nominate to the other exes and see if we can't get some consensus as to his suitability. I haven't asked him yet but my guess is that he'd be game for a novel enterprise like this. And if he's not, I'm sure we can find someone.

How about you guys?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:43:40 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: My response to the LG replies so far
Message:
Under the subject line 'Boy! What pathetic, silly cowards you guys are!':

The responses so far are hilarious! This really puts the lie to any of you who've pretended to have a straight face while arguing against the fair interpretation of m's words and actions. All you've done now is show how little faith you have in your own arguments.

Harry, you miss the point. It doesn't matter about my own prejudice. That's the whole point of letting outsiders, picked by premies every bit as much as exes, judge the issues.

Bruno, the proposed 'trial' isn't to judge subjective matters such as how much you love m, etc., but rather what are the fair interpretations of things m said or did.

Bjorn, again, like I said to Harry, this isn't about me. You guys get to pick the panelists just like the exes do. It's about how reasonably informed outsiders would see things. For example, all those idiotic attempts you make to avoid the obvious import of m's words? You know? Well, it's useless trying to appeal to your common sense, you don't have any. So this was just an attempt to let others -- neither exes nor premies -- judge the issues. Your skittishness simply confirms what we all know anyway which is that you don't believe a word you say here yourself. Hey, what a surprise, huh? Oh, by the way, it wouldn't cost a thing. I'm talking about three volunteer panelists. That shouldn't be too hard to put together if only you cowards would be willing to play.

Wm, I have no idea what you're trying to say. Indeed, I doubt you do either. Cat, your contribution to this discussion, like all others, is worthless.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 19:37:24 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: My challenge to Jim.
Message:
Hi Jim,

Here's my challenge to you.

Eat six cream crackers*, one after the other, without drinking anything, while listening to 'Frampton's Greatest Hits.'

See how far your atheism gets you then mate.

Anth the dry mouth.

*A 'Cream Cracker' is a square, dry, savoury biscuit, sometimes called Jacob. If you eat one without butter, it has the same effect as putting a thick piece of blotting paper in your mouth, excepty it's hard and crispy.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 19:38:57 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: If I were posting regularly I'd LOL or something [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 17:54:55 (EDT)
From: Bjørn E
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Challenge for Jim Part 1
Message:
Jim wrote
Well, it's useless trying to appeal to your common sense, you don't have any.
I state:
I know. According to you no one else than you possess common sence. Actually my common sense gave me an award and a scholarship from the parliament for being for being a talented inventor. My common sense also made me quite wealthy.
Jim wrote;
'Your skittishness simply confirms what we all know anyway which is that you don't believe a word you say here yourself.'
I state:
I know ex-premies only believe in their own lies. However I can prove every word I have written. What is it you dont believe? That I got the award? That I did not get a personal letter from the prime minister, That I did not get letters from both the minister of justice or from her advisor? That I did not get letters from the political leaders in Norway. That I not was assigned by the Assiociation of victims of violence to write a document for a hearing in the parliament? Or that I am still pretty wealthy?
Or the fact I stated that the people living in the ashram when it closed down in Oslo, shared almost 100 000 dollars? That I dont own a cottage in the mountain or 7 flats? Or that I go to a theraphist who uses a Actually I can prove all of this and send a fax.

Well if your experiment wouldnt cost anything, I invite you to come to Norway and I will find people that are totally unbiased - who have never heard about M and who are willing to volonteer.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:33:48 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: AAAAAAAGHHHHH
Message:
Why do you bother?Trust me? doesn't that mean 'Fuck you' in California? I'd rather put one together(a panel) to discuss whether you represent a good case for voluntary Euthanasia. Reading your drivel puts me in a suicidal mood. Or is that homocidal? Or Homophobic? How about just plain pissed?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 09:24:45 (EDT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: What's wrong Cat,can't handle it? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:46:46 (EDT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: M's definition of a cult
Message:
This is an extract from a satsang delivered by Prem Pal Sing Rawat before an auditorium in Munich Germany (circa 1979). This extract deals with his view of what a CULT is or isn't.


Very recently BBC wrote a letter to Peter, Peter Potter the National Co-ordinator there and said you know we wanna do, er, we're doing this report, it was a radio station there. We're doing this report, BBC are putting this report together about cults. Then they named a few cults there and said you know we'd like to report on you and would you please co-operate. And it was interesting, the reply that went back. 'We are not a cult nor are we a religion, we are in a category that doesn't exist'. [great cheers from the audience]

And I'll tell you why - when Jesus came what was he? Was he a religion, no, that became later - Christianity. Was he a cult? No, that's like almost depending on what he did. Definitely he wasn't a cult. What was Krishna what was Ram? Oh yes, everything that followed after them, the people who want to follow in their footsteps, those that's a religion, then that's all granted. You know. And people who take that religion and modify that religion, they can be cults. First of all we follow no religion, there is no religion for us to follow because there is no necessity of a religion for us to follow. We, through Guru Maharaji, through knowledge go above and beyond the experience of any religion that can ever, you know that experience that any religion can ever bring us.
And we are definitely not cults because we do not follow our own trip or our own modified trip. We follow that thing, that knowledge that was there before any of this ABCD was there, any of the 123 were there or any of these dumb smart brains were there, who have the capability of locking everything into quotes, everything into brackets, everything, categorising everything. This knowledge was there before man was there before any kind of a conceiving was there. And that's the knowledge that we follow. And we follow Guru Maharaji, we follow the perfect master, we follow, you know, that knowledge that is within inside of us all, which is. We do not believe. There IS a difference. Oh yeah I believe in John, I believe in Arjun, I believe in Nanak, no we do not believe - we EXPERIENCE, and there is a vast difference between believing and knowing and experiencing, and we experience. We experience Jesus, we don't just talk about Jesus we experience Jesus because in fact who Jesus was, was not a physical format. We experience that Jesus that Jesus talked about. We experience that Ram that Ram talked about. We experience that Krishna that Krishna talked about. And we experience that knowledge that all the perfect masters talked about - now, by Guru Maharaji's grace.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 13:45:39 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: notinherent@yahoo.com
To: Charlie
Subject: Could you give me the source
Message:
I want to collect this type of stuff, but it would help to have the date, place, and source (transcribed tape, DLM/DUO/EV publication, etc.)

Anyone else -- I'm collecting quotes that this whole trip is neither a religion nor a church. But quoted sources are essential. I will put together something for EPO eventually.

bests, Francesca

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 03:55:47 (EDT)
From: Bjørn E
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Who is going to pay the bill, Jim?
Message:
You proved yourself to be so ridiculous (for instance when you reported the person to the police)that you actually don't deserve that anyone take you seriously.
In your twisted mindset, do you BTW think that this life is about courts?
Or that courts are 'justice'?
Or that courts are not biased and that decision of courts are not coloured by the cleverness of 'atterneys'?
This is not about which group is cult or not. This is about pursuing love vs pursuing hate? Guess which group is attempting to do what?

Poor Jim, I really feel sorry for you. You have brainwashed yourself beyond belief.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:39:41 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Bjørn E
Subject: Re: Who is going to pay the bill, Jim?
Message:
I thought it was great when he reported me to the Police . They saw him for the complete fucking nutter he really is . NOW they are investigating him! And his fair lady Ice Queen. Serves em right. Makes a lot of sense that he drops out quietly when his priviliged legal postion gets challenged. Should know better than to mess with a pool full of sharks like himself.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:41:15 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: For the record
Message:
I didn't report you to the police. I called them, as I advised in my post at the time, but the cop I needed to talk to wasn't in then. Instead of following up with them, I reported you to Hotboards. I've still got your post, though, and any further threats will trigger a report. Whatever. You know I'm serious.

As for your complaint(s) .... God, you're stupid!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 18:08:16 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: For the record
Message:
I DIDN'T HAVE TO COMPLAIN . You provided them with enough interest in just reading your trail of mayhem. You think yoursekf invincible? Above the law? Hotboards took it to be a crock as well. GFY
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 05:54:33 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Bjørn E
Subject: and I feel sorry for you
Message:
I think your mind is twisted and that you need help.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 08:13:00 (EDT)
From: Bjørn E
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: You don't need Abi, I am doing fine
Message:
There is not one day passing without the feeling of joy enters my life.
I really feel sorry for Jim, not because he missed the chance to feel that joy, and for being so fucked up that he does all this stupid things. No normal person who abuses others like he does, and break the laws like he does, and behaves like he does, does something as stupid to report to the police a joke / humourous comment, stating he is feeling treatened by a guy in Australia who made a joke to him on the net, states that he might be afraid that soemone else might come after him with a bat, just because of the joke / teasing, on the ground that one crazy person (out of millions) once used a hammer.

I kind of feel sorry for you Abi, I wish you could go on with your life.

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Date: Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 15:55:39 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Bjørn E
Subject: Fuck off, Bjorn. FA PLEASE deal with...
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 21:16:57 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Bjørn E
Subject: I've been meaning to say this for a while
Message:
but I guess I've been trying to be polite...

FUCK OFF!

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 08:42:48 (EDT)
From: David
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Bjørn E
Subject: Please read this
Message:
If there are enough requests for you to be blocked from here, I will block you. You made your points to Abi recently and made your peace. There is no further need for you to continue in the same vein.

Furthermore, if I ever receive a complaint about you that you are 'stalking' someone here, I will report that complaint to your ISP in Norway. Such a complaint has not been made to me personally but I will act if it is made.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 08:35:20 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Bjørn E
Subject: TO BJORN
Message:
If there is not one day passing withouth the feeling of joy entering your life, then why do you feel so little confidence in your Lord?

Why do you come here to harrass Abi? By harrassing Abi, you harrass me, and all who support her.

LEAVE ABI ALONE, BJORN! You are a sick fool.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:35:25 (EDT)
From: Perfessor suchabananer
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: gee, too bad I was a phlegmie [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 23:04:10 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: A challenge to all premies (reposted from LG)
Message:
Jim:

I doubt any premies with any real ev/maharaji connections would bite at that one, BUT...

How about we compile a list on the forum of the questions we would ask and evidence we have that suggests that captain rawat has run, and still runs a cult.

This list, in the form of a letter, could be directly submitted to ev/maharaji/visions/community contact people etc. for their perusal and comments.
It could be posted on EPO as an open challenge to m....these are real questions from ex-followers who would like answers....we also feel that potential aspirants should know about these questions and issues BEFORE they receive knowledge....and if m/ev doesn't answer these very pertinent questions, why won't they answer?

If they are silent,it will speak volumes.
If they answer...well, I'd like to see the spinning, squirming and lying that would ensue from ev representatives.

We could start with THEIR (ev's) definition of a cult on their website.

Maybe it's not a debate or a press conference, but it could be a 'virtual debate/dialog' for starters...
Could always be referenced at EPO, for media contacts...

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:40:58 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: This is a really GOOD idea! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 22:14:30 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Jim
Subject: Fabulous idea - do it in LA
Message:
Hi Jim. I am delighted to see you back too. I'm also glad you took a bit of a break.

Your idea is very exciting and interesting. I say do it in LA and alert the media. I can't imagine who the premies would come up with for a representative, but I say, let them find someone. People could be witnesses and present evidence -- hard evidence -- declarations under penalty of perjury, videotaped depositions, demonstrative evidence such as LOTU, the 'Who is Guru Maharaji?' book, And It Is Divine, Divine Times, old satsangs of Maharaji, etc, etc. The list is endless and only limited by our imagination and what we have in hand. Maybe we have to fly Jean-Michel over from France to be a witness about the Combat story and bring the archives he's accumulated.

Consider this too: write to EV, Captain Rawat, Valerio Pascotto, and others in responsible positions, and tell them about the proposed event, and invite them to suggest the premie sponsored participant.

If the premies/EV do not suggest anyone, or decline to participate in the event, it can be held anyway, their absence noted.

This sounds like loads of fun. If the other side decides not to participate, we could always have 'The Trial of DLM/EV and Captain Rawat' just like in the '70's when we lefties held trials of the US Government for its role in VietNam and in using the FBI to destabilize progessive groups such as the Black Panthers.

Fun, fun, fun. Taking a few weeks off got those creative juices flowing!

Love, Marianne

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:23:33 (EDT)
From: Deboah
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: A challenge to all premies (reposted from LG)
Message:
Hi Jim,

This is a very ambitious request. I, personally think the premies wouldn't touch this one at the time, but I hope to be proven wrong.

The premies and Maha and his wacko cult org. should take heed of this suggestion before it's too late. Because at the time, there is definitely enough interest in the media to take the contents and EXPOSE it. The cult leaders and followers will have to scramble to pick up the pieces. Many of the readers here will freak out and try and explain stuff but will be held hostage by the posts they have left behind. This is the best way for them to save any face in the scrutinizing eye of the media.

This way they buy time and may be prepared in the event the media splashes the info onto the public. Premies should be thinking about how they discuss their premie/Master/4-technique relationship to the public and less time how they will flame so-and-so in their next post.

Good suggestion. Let the games begin!

p.s. Hi, nice to see your provoking posts again.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:37:51 (EDT)
From: suchabananius
Email: None
To: Deboah
Subject: like, those about to die salute... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 20:55:56 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Would be cool but
Message:
it aint gonna happen jim. For a start premies know they'd 'lose' and EV would have to step in to halt it .....it may generate media interest and macrawat just couldn't allow THAT to happen.

Saw him on English tv last night ( Glastonbury festival 70 and Millenium 73 ) ...hahahaha talk about CULT LEADER !!!

Hey you stayed away for over a week ....that's good going :)

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 20:34:24 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Far Out..... I've just watched
Message:
this tv prog.called Far Out as recommended by Anth below .

It's about the beginnings of organised New Ageism in Britain & had some very interesting footage of the Lord of the Universe back when he used to be God, the spreader of the Knowledge of Infinity, & not the successful private investor & incidental teacher of something or other that he has now become.

Seeing the adolescent Rawat in action I'd say he was wired. On what I have no idea...his own conviction , power , speed ?
I was struck by something about him that I recognised at the time but buried beneath the culthought that he was the embodiment of Universal Love :in himself he is as hard as nails .

I felt sad & embarassed after watching.
Sad at looking back over the valley of time to myself on the opposite hillside , unreachable now & impossible to return to the further I walk away.

Embarassed that 'the world' even though it comes in the form of a cheapo documentary , should lump my cult in with weirdos who have funny electric machines or stick pins in wax enemies .

Was it all no more than that?

What did Rawat REALLY steal : money isn't everything.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:31:16 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: coffee! stolen moments
Message:
[remember his tv 'satsang'] da studio lights were hot, air conditioning on made him cold -- coffee to warm him up - 1st experience of major caffeine -- thereafter a daily booster shot.

or maybe 'twas da hashish found under his bed in UK

Stolen Moments = decades of people's 'prime-time' lives.

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:09:11 (EDT)
From: Dermit
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: And Bin Liner...
Message:
What about that priest performing that exoorcism ! Had visions of Jim Heller bouncing a premies head around :)

Yeah, wasn't it just weird huh? But did you notice how smug and satisfied macrawat appeared at millenium .....and now he denies all that stuff and blames us !!!

There aint arf been some clever bastards :)

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:04:56 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Re: Far Out..... I've just watched
Message:
What did Rawat REALLY steal : money isn't everything.
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 19:40:44 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Can someone explain tht 'foot' thing to me again?
Message:
One of the things that continues to amaze me about premie behaviour is the 'capacity for denial', especially coming from people who are supposedly 'lovers of truth'...

The thing that really asounds me is that premies will still follow captain rawat all over the globe to possibly kiss his feet.

And now, you can sing arti as well.

I'm just wondering how any self respecting premie explains these actions to other people, especially in the light of maharaji's 'dark side' that has been exposed here.

This is my point:

It's one thing to try and look the other way about some of maharaji's stupid antics.
Some premies are now saying that it only proves that maharaji is 'human'.
Fine.

But then why would you want to worship a person like this, sing the sappy lyrics to arti, kiss his feet and pretend that he is somehow greater than you or above you?

Especially when his character shows him to be so different, and when he refuses to even try and deal with his stuff which has caused so much damage and harm to so many people.

Why the need to worship?

If I were a premie I'd hide as much of my involvement with maharaji as possible.
It's embarrassing.

Any answers premie lurkers?

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 02:25:52 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: kinky Hindu foot fetish [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:12:30 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Re: Can someone explain tht 'foot' thing to me
Message:
Apparently, everybody lines up to kiss the holy feet and whoever doesn't puke wins. Did I get that right?
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 17:49:27 (EDT)
From: McGruff
Email: None
To: All
Subject: As we say in New Haven
Message:
YOUR VERITAS SUCKS IF IT AINT GOT LUX!!!!

turnabout huh? youse guyz is rilly asking for for it LOL!!!

LAUGHING AT YOU NOT NEAR YOU!!!

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 20:41:25 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: McGruff
Subject: And gues who
Message:
is laughing at you all the way to the bank or the nearest multi million dollar yacht saleyard? You got it buster Macrawat.

When you breathe your last do you think your Lord of the universe will be there for you? Hahahahahahhahahahahahaha he don't give a shit about you so why do you toe kiss and brown nose him.

Youre wasting your life bud. Here's laughing at ya !

Hope you escape the cult b4 you die.

Best wishes

Dermot

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 19:08:00 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: McGruff
Subject: if you are in New Haven you ARE near [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 15:20:51 (EDT)
From: McGruff
Email: None
To: All
Subject: I LOVE IT! THANKS FOR THE LAFF
Message:
GREAT!! HILARIOUS!!! YOU PEOPLE ARE SO FALLING APART YOU HAVE TO INVENT CHARACTERS TO PLAY WITH!!!

IMAGINARY FRIENDS!!! *HA HA HA* *ROLLING ON THE FLOOR**

JUST GET A LIFE, ALREADY, THOUGH THE AMUSEMENT FACTOR IS GREAT!!!

THANKS FOR TODAY'S BEST LAFF.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:42:08 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: McGruff
Subject: Dave,
Message:
I'd like to request, shite like this, from morons like McGruff, with his head so far up his arse he obviously can't tell if it's day or night, is kicked off the forum.

Freedom is great. But allowing a dog the freedom to come and shit on the carpet, removes the freedom of the rooms other inhabitants to breath clean air.

Let McGruff go and wank himself off somewhere else.

THE IMAGINARY ANTH.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 08:35:26 (EDT)
From: Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: AJW
Subject: Already did it last night
Message:
Which is why he's not been back again.
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Date: Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 09:03:15 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: Thanks Dave.
Message:
We don't want any blissed out premies spoiling the evil vibe of our Hate Club do we?

Anth rotting in hell, eating his own flesh.

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 19:08:59 (EDT)
From: bill burke
Email: None
To: McGruff
Subject: instructor John? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 18:30:02 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: McGruff
Subject: FUCK OFF, You...
Message:
Braindead, gutless, guru worshipping, toe kissing, mindless follower of an ignorant, uneducated, hearatless cult leader! That's your goomraji I'm talking about, asshole!

Get out...go away...you are a pest, just like a flea on a dog's ass!

And I'm not joking, either. Go AWAY, fuckhead!

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 17:13:07 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: McGruff
Subject: You're welcome, asshole
Message:
Hey, McFugg, in case you haven't heard, this internet stuff is fun. Yes, it's the latest and the greatest in entertainment value. Where else are you going to find an international community like the one the internet provides? I personally find it fascinating that I can communicate with people all over the world as if they're right in my living room. And when they're just a loudmouth bore, like you happen to be, I can just shut them out as if they're not even there. No excuses, no goodbyes, just click on some other link to see if anything more intelligent is being said (in your case, that wouldn't be a terrible stretch; probably anything on the net will do). So why don't YOU get a life. I've already got one. And I wouldn't be on the net if I thought it was a waste of one. Why are you here if you've got so much else happenning in your's? Can't think of anything better to do than laugh at others? That's a hell of a life you've got there, Mick, for a ten year old.
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 17:03:21 (EDT)
From: anon
Email: None
To: McGruff
Subject: you so so funny character, too! hehehehe [nt]
Message:
McGrathe
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:59:25 (EDT)
From: Eyepoker
Email: None
To: McGruff
Subject: What the fuck
Message:
'r' you laughing at asshole? The whole fuckin' world's laughing at you stoopid dickheads worshipping the fatguru.
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 12:54:38 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: do premies feel 'constant bliss?'
Message:
One of the things that attracted me to Knowledge was Mahatma Rajeswar's satsang and particularly his statement that knowledge would bring a person 'permanent bliss.' Only he pronounced it 'perMAHnent bliss,' which made it even more charming and enticing.

Now, over at the premie hate club mosh pit (snicker) one of my favorite premie posters, Cosmic Traveler, (I believe he's a friend of PatC's) says this:

'...I can point out at least 10 of my friends, in different parts of the world, that all atrriibute their constant blissful state to him.'

Whoa, 'constant bliss,' did I miss the boat or is Coz just pulling my leg?

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:53:40 (EDT)
From: sUcH
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: 'constant bliss?' where's that action?
Message:
gerry:

did you say 'constant bliss'? we wuz ROBBED!!! you mean I donated thousands and thousands and thousands of bucks, did lots of service satsang and meditation -- and somebody Else actually got all the 'constant bliss'? that really sucks! are you sure they aren't talking about their anti-depressants? or was it 'ecstasy', perhaps? haha

hey, I know it's shit - but maybe we're missing out on some Really GOOD shit! hohoho

Peace and lentils,

P.S. I might be traveling near your neck of the woods sometime in the next couple months. you like beer and golf, or shoot pool? maybe another ex-phlegm friend might also like to get together who lives about 2 hours from you... you anywhere near a place called Centralia?

how 'bout a party? constant bliss!

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 14:55:22 (EDT)
From: Steve M
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: do premies feel 'constant bliss?' [nt]
Message:
Well I'll be darned Gerry,

I was gonna bring that up too . I was thinking that i know about 15 practising premies very well and a couple of current instructors and none of them are in constant bliss.

I also know three yoga teachers 2 of them in their late eighties. They are much more centered and blissful than any premie I know.

Cos is the only premie I've ever heard claim constant bliss and to know 10 others WOW ! I think I need to come over the water and meet 'ol cosmic and his pals. If it's true then I might get back into maha ! ( not)

SteveM

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 13:49:55 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: do premies feel 'constant bliss?'
Message:
The premies I know do not appear to be in any state of bliss. Mostly they are pining away until the next time they can 'sit in front of maharaji.' Or borrowing money to make trips only idiots would go on just to be where their 'master' is. Then they come back, broke and in debt, and pine some more wondering when they can 'sit in front of maharaji again.' Do you realize some fools have quit/lost their jobs to follow rawat around? Good grief. And they say it's not a cult. They have a different dictionary than I do, evidently. Thanks for letting me vent!
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:59:01 (EDT)
From: deborah
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: Re: do premies feel 'constant bliss?'
Message:
You're right. They are not in constant bliss. However, constantly looking forward to connecting with the BigHead inside and outside and this gives them a certain hope or serenity. Premies are sweet because they try and love all the time and they are eager to feel good.

That's the carrot that motivates the donkey.

Unfortunately, everyone focusing on Maha, as the carrot causes them to lose perspective in every day inter-personal relationships and so they sabotage otherwise potentially healthy relationships. This sets up dysfunction in relationships, career, personal goals, future goals, etc.

Timmi, question: How many premies have you met have pensions?

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 20:49:40 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: None
To: deborah
Subject: Re: do premies feel 'constant bliss?'
Message:
Timmi, question: How many premies have you met have pensions?


---

Wow! I had to stop and think about that one. And honestly, I don't know of any who have a pension. I don't know all of the premies I am in contact with that well, but of the ones I do know well, none have a pension. That's scary! Not that a pension is a measure of one's success in life. But, none of them have held a job long enough in any one place to get anything for their retirement. (Question: how does one retire from not doing much of anything?) The jobs are all temporary or part time or makeshift. Is this typical of premies? Or am I just surrounded by a group of 'less ambitious' people? Help! P.S. to everybody: Around our home, I am hearing 'Maharaji says.........' much less frequently than before. It used to crop up several times a day and I thought I would scream. Now it is a few times a week. I've not said anything yet, to my husband, about my feelings re: rawat. But, I am no longer a willing listener to every video, premie, or broadcast. I am very much with my husband, but not listening to rawat. I didn't listen to the broadcast last Sunday. First time I have not at least sat with my husband. I stayed in the kitchen working on stuff. It was better. One of these days, when that squeaky voice is screeching away, I am going to forget myself and say, 'What a crock of crap!'

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:13:31 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: Re: do premies feel 'constant bliss?'
Message:
Hi Timmi, you see that's the crux of the problem. The BigHead uses expressions (which, of course, have kernals of truth) such as:

a pension is a measure of one's success in life.

And then, many premies go through their life not acquiring one because it is not a measure of one's success in life.

Brings us to a new question:

Is not having a pension (or a pot to piss in)a measure of one's spirituality?

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:16:28 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: do premies feel 'constant bliss?'
Message:
I wish I could count the times I have heard rawat say, 'This is not a religion.' Bull! It's even worse than most religions. He needs locked up. Does India want him back?
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 21:29:09 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: Re: do premies feel 'constant bliss?'
Message:
You asked: Does India want him back?

My response: Sat Guru's are a dime a dozen. Who needs him? SatGuru's are part of communities in India and the names of many Sat Gurus or Gurus were hence named after the territory in which they originated.

PremPal left to follow material bliss. He's a failure as a guru.

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:56:21 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: Timmi, that's Not venting! called Truth. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 14:06:13 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: same here
Message:
The premies I got to know well were pretty unhappy people - 90s version.
The ones I didn't know well just smiled that smile at videos and made small talk, if any talk, after.

I suppose looking back a few years, there was some sort of comfort in having a belief system to explain all sorts of events in life, one that was reinforced by my premie friends and the ever-present vcr. But like you Timmi the only excitement or real joy I ever saw was when they were sitiing infront ot maharaji after traveling to see him. Even the before and after traveling got dicey sometimes, tempers flaring lots of strange stuff, in part because of the financial strain.

As for the LG posts, I don't read often but when I do I think they are an accurate reflection of the different ways premies feel. It's amusing to me to read the 'we're not going to passively take this' tone, like it's some new deal. I didn't know any premies that didn't get quite outspoken and emotional when the Maharaji was challenged. Or they'd talk calmly and burst out in anger a few days later.

Not what I'd call constant bliss and I'm releived I don't have to even think there is such a thing anymore. What a setup!

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:21:46 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr
To: All
Subject: ExPremies Links
Message:
Anybody wanting to have his website linked to EPo?

You'll have to show your ExSmartCard (©®™) ...
[ Ex-Premies Websites ]

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:46:11 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Merci Monsieur.
Message:
Thanks Jean-Michel. My hit counter is clicking round like crazy.

I had three hits last week, (including one from myself, to check how many hits I'd had). This is three times as many as I usually get.

Anth the statistical genius.

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 20:08:12 (EDT)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: ExPremies Links
Message:
Could someone please tell me what IMO means I have tried to figure it out to no avail.
Thanks
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:24:19 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: bienfait, J-M! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 13:38:04 (EDT)
From: DepressedaboutMJ
Email: MahaMindF@aol.com
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: GULP..well here goes
Message:
Hi Everybody...Rich here...Received knowledge in '73 and have been going thru the angst and agony of trying to figure out the Mindfuck that is Maharaji and Knowledge for Lo these many years..

I ran across ex-premie.org...just a few days and have been Blown away by the Revelations by Michael Dettmers..et Al...I am a bit confused about how and where to post and use this forum (what are threads, How do I start a topic , how do I find all the Old posts etc) but I NEED to get clarity on the Subject of Maharaji and Knowledge.

Briefly my dilemma has always been....with all the confusion, inconsistencies and outright lies that have often been present in premiedom, It was still my experience that there was something very special about Maharaji. I had several Cosmic Experiences intially in his presence that convinced my very quickly that he MUST be what he says 'The Lord(God) of the Universe' ( and he DID claim that!!)..Subsequently...i have often experienced 'an energy' coming (I have believed) from M in programs/festivals/darshan lines that was Incredibly beautiful and Felt like Home.

Yet Maharaji has been an INCREDIBLE MINDFUCK...He Claimed he was the Lord..and then Denied he ever Claimed it..Told us we Had to Surrender Our LIVEs to him as our Creator...then said..oh...just practice Knowledge and live YOUR Life...Demanded we have Complete Faith in Him..and then just said follow your heart..Said following his Agya was our DUTY..and then said...'participate..if you want to...Said we were only going to have 3 day programs..and then never gave another 3 day program again...(these all from just the top of my head..... Thus my Dilemma..which has forced me to use all sorts of manipulations of Logic.... trying to make sense out of confusion.

Well...I dont want to go on too much...just wanted to get started posting...and I want to say thank you SO MUCH for those of You who are Sincerely Sharing your Experience and Perspective Of Maharaji and Knowledge...not from the Dogma..but from your Real Hearts and Minds..(esp Michael Dettmers) ..Thank you...Rich (DepressedaboutMJ)

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 20:06:52 (EDT)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: Re: GULP..well here goes
Message:
Hi Rich
Glad too know you seems like I am going through much the same as you. I am starting to feel better. This site and recent exes is really helping me, even though my house has never been so neglected as a result.
Best wishes Magiclara
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 19:24:35 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: Hey Rich, thanks for sharing
Message:
your story with us.

Your story, going back to 1973 sounds like mine and dozens of others I have heard.
I ran across EPO about 2 years ago, and it was both attractive and disturbing at the same time.
It seemed like 'premie pornography'.....it was the first time I had ever seen maharaji discussed in any way other than total praise.
It was very enlightening....I instantly became lighter, as I realized that I could express myself in any way I wanted, after almost 30 years of satsang only.(any talk about maharaji other than total praise was considered 'MIND', and you know what premies thought about that!)

I didn't come back for a few months, but that initial peek at another side of maharaji, along with unbelievable disturbing revelations about his personal life, had opened the box.

About 6 months later I began to regularly read and post on EPO.
Talk about liberating experiences!

In the last couple of years the EPO site has grown into a considerable body of knowledge that tells the 'other side of the story' about the not so perfect master.

My suggestion would be to take it slow...read and digest everything at your own pace....post if you want to, or just read for awhile....if you're going along the same way many of us have gone, you will probably experience some negative feelings about being conned for a long time by maharaji.

But the truth is liberating, and after some of my anger and disgust and embarrassment faded away, I began to discover a new life for myself that I would describe as nothing short of miraculous.
Rejecting the spiritual tyranny of maharaji has been a major source of growth for me.

I feel more peace of mind, more in touch with myself, lighter and happier in all ways since I left the fold.

I have also seen that the only negative feelings I felt were associated with leaving and the fear of leaving....once I did,I began to feel better than ever....the threats that maharaji made about what happens if you leave him are pure and total bullshit....I now think that he says those things for HIS benefit, not ours-it keeps more people from leaving him, and keeps donations and ego-gratification for him up.

Once again, thanks for posting, Rich...

I think you're at the start of something wonderful...

(Feel free to tell any friends about EPO as well)

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:34:48 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: Welcome aboard Rich
Message:
Very interesting story - thanks for sharing it. If I may be so bold to say that the depression you feel will eventually give way to a sense of freedom. Information and facts can once and for all put to rest any 'manipulations of logic' you describe or rationalizations as far as who / what M or K are. And as you feel the urge so say more, let it rip. That's what the forum is for.

Richard (original crispy - not Richard II)

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:32:52 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: cheer up, Rich. you're recovering!
Message:
yeah, lots of projections of our experiences and wishful thinking mixed with concepts we were fed. + the 'concept maker'! haha

yeah, lots of m. and cult capriciousness, manipulations, and da proverbial 'cheat and deceit'.

but now, a whole lotta shakin' goin' on! [kinda like Shiva's mace smashing the maya of cult delusions and confusions]

at ex-premie.org 'Best of Forum', there are posts addressing the process of leaving etc.

people here can assist you; there hundreds of longtime loyal premies who are now exes posting here.

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 14:37:57 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: Hi Rich, Welcome...
Message:
Hi Rich,

First, I appreciate how you are feeling right now. I received K in 1976. I came to the same conclusions as you have in 1997. I had a long period, about 15 years, of not contacting M and I didn't practice K. I tried to go back and EVERYTHING had changed, including videos only, no premie satsang, the 'book burning' period when all materials relating to Guru Maharaj Ji as lord, no explanations for any of these changes, and many more things which contradicted what I had originally been taught. It was very dull and flat. No communities, just deadpan 'people with knowledge' trying to propagate K without speaking at all. It was too weird. Just around the time of M's first live video feeds I read the EPO site and the forum. It hit me that I was conned big time by Maharaji. I knew that the most important thing I could do was start using my intellect and logic to relieve myself of Maharaji's mindfuck.

With that came a lot of sadness and loss of the many years that I believed (thought I knew) exactly who M was: the Lord. Next came anger at finding out so much about his behavior and lack of morality.

Mindfuck is exactly what he did to us. It is tremendously helpful to post here. You will get as much support as you want. There is a new exes forum which I believe you can find the email address for at EPO. Instructions about how to use this forum are above on the main page. Links to EPO (Ex-Premie.Org) and other ex-premie sites can also be found there.

I believe that the old posts from previous forums are archived and you can access them at EPO, too. There is much to digest.

I, too, had several experiences which, along with the indoctrination of daily satsang, cassette tapes of Maharaji, and darshan which reinforced my belief in M as more than a master or teacher. And you're right, he said he was the Lord himself, although now he denies it. That piece of recovery from what we now know is a cult is one of the most difficult. Hard to wrap one's mind around 'cosmic experiences,' then feel betrayed and conned, confused and sad. It was a personality cult experience. Maharaji even teaches the techniques incorrectly. A mess, huh?

On the main page here is a place where you can start new threads. I agree, that although this format is excellent, one thing which can be confusing is where one thread ends and another begins.

Again, welcome, Rich. You have taken a huge step by posting here. If you would like, tell us more about yourself. As much or as little as you feel is appropriate for you right now.

And don't worry, the depression does lessen as you converse with the exes here and with time. Take good care of yourself, you are embarking on quite a new journey. Thanks again for your post.

Best,
Cynthia Gracie

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 14:29:24 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: Hey there Rich
Message:
Welcome to ex-premieland. Reading the true history of what we once considered the illustrious Divine Light Mission, headed by none other than the Perfect Master is a real mind fuck, isn't it? Have you had a chance to read the Journeys section of the ex-premie (commonly called EPO) site? The Journeys will give you a view into the many diverse experiences we have all had coming to Maharaji and leaving him behind. One of the best things about this site is that none of us have to agree with each other about anything, unlike premieland, where everyone has to be 'synchornized'. We like being unsynchronized and different -- and enjoy our minds on a daily basis, thank you very much.

How do you like it that Maharaji now says he never called himself the Lord of the Universe?

If you are so inclined, tell us when and where you received knowledge. Did you live in the ashram? What communities did you live in?

As far as using the forum, just make a post in a thread and people will respond to it. You don't need to copy the same post and put it in two threads.

Welcome.

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 14:36:46 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Oh, I know you!
Message:
I know who you are! Telling us about how you got involved with Maharaji and your process in questioning him can help all of us better understand our own experiences.

I know the answers to some of those questions I asked above but maybe you could answer them for those reading here anyway.

Stick around. There are good people here.

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:16:00 (EDT)
From: Jiminny Critic
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Anths poetry site..cool(nt)
Message:
xx
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:04:20 (EDT)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: ExPremies Links
Message:
On the subjects of websites Has anyone any idea which site i once found nut never could again. It had pictures of people @doing the techniques@ They were larking about. Any ideas.
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 13:22:13 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Re: ExPremies Links
Message:
This was the London Latvian Club Knowledge Review, conducted by Mahatama Jean-Michel. The said great soul will know where the evidence is to be found:-)

John who was there, and did service until 3 am.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 06:49:04 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: I remember it well John
Message:
Well up to about 2.30 am.

I'm not sure what happened between then and the next morning, when I woke up in a pile of puke. (I think it was Hamzens, but who knows?)

Anth, those were the days my friend.

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 19:08:57 (EDT)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: ExPremies Links
Message:
I typed in london latvian club knowledge review and found it at once. Will there be more of these amazing darshans?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:36:18 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Re: ExPremies Links
Message:
I typed in london latvian club knowledge review and found it at once. Will there be more of these amazing darshans?


---

I'm sure there will be but as the Old Farts who run the Latvian House in London have closed the club, they won't be there. If anyone fancies coming out to Latvia, I'll be happy to host such an event in my country house:-)

John the lives in the middle of forests and swamps

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 17:11:52 (EDT)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: ExPremies Links
Message:
I will look forward to the great mahatama ji showing me the way.
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 08:14:45 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Back off EV!
Message:
My mother doesn't want to talk to you.

Stop manipulating my parents.

Who's next? My boyfriend?

And you expect me to trust you!??

Abi

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:11:47 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: stars@uvic.ca
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Back off EV!
Message:
Abi, please log your info about EV hazzles and also the intentionally intimidating threads as JM suggested.

They can't brake you because many of us are here for you 24/7...no less. They can only try. But they'll have to break of all your support. And I'm strong.

We may be only-shadow boxing on the forum but we're real people who can offer real help in real life. Email me anytime.

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:23:55 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Dialogue is good
Message:
So why dont you talk to them?
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 12:01:17 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Catweasal...Leave Abi Alone!! n/t
Message:
n/t
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:27:00 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Re: Dialogue is good
Message:
CW:

I have been for quite some time. Since before Amaroo in fact. But it became so awful that I collapsed. I have representation but they chose to talk to my father. Go figure. I think they want to break me.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 07:52:32 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Dialogue is good
Message:
Closure is what you require.It needs to happen for you . Lawyers are sharks . Try a personal approach. Need a hand?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 21:51:20 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: a challenge for you CW
Message:
CW:

I'm touched that you want to help me.

Could you please write Rawat a letter. And then could you post it on EPO. I'd appreciate that a great deal. Or if you feel that Rawat would ignore a letter from you, you could always try writing to Dr Valerio Pascotto or someone on the US EV board of directors.

I look forward to your help.

Abi

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 11:20:25 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Cat, Your Dialogue is BAAAAD!
Message:
Please leave Abi alone. I've asked you yesterday, and I am asking you again today.

The word 'closure' is quite easy to throw upon someone without knowing them, isn't it? If you're so into closure, why don't you get some and leave?

AGAIN, LEAVE ABI ALONE! You are truly heartless.

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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 21:53:40 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: CW the helpful
Message:
I've just asked CW to write a letter to Rawat. maybe he could write an open letter to Rawat here and on LG if he really thinks he can help. I wonder if he'll do it?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 26, 2001 at 18:15:02 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: I didn't reply to you.
Message:
Stop being ridiculous. You are behaving in a an overly protective manner. She replied. I answered. Are you stupid or something?
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 13:07:08 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: notinherent@yahoo.com
To: Abi
Subject: Forgot to say ...
Message:
Forgot to say, if you ever want to e-mail me, here's the address. Even if you have enough people to vent or talk with at present, you can keep it for future reference.

Too many cooks spoil the soup, after all!

best wishes, Francesca

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 13:04:58 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Talk to your representative ASAP
Message:
Abi:

Talk to your representative ASAP. What they are doing may be unethical and your rep will know this. Keep track of who is talking to whom, and when.

love, Francesca

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 08:52:18 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: sylviecyn@yahoo.com
To: Abi
Subject: Back off EV!
Message:
Hi Abi,

Now EV's bothering your mother? That's horrendous. This is starting to become a campaign of harrassment to shut you up. That's how it appears and feels to me.

Is EV trying to gather information by harrassing your family? What next? Sue them for liable?

These EV people are spineless and immoral! I can't imagine the stress this is placing upon you. Maybe you can take legal action against that. Maybe that would bring the facts of the abuse to light.

Why do they protest so much? Rawat, et al, definitely have many, many secrets to protect. After all, they are in collusion with the perpetrator, Jagdeo.

You have a lot of courage, Abi. I'm sending you a big hug.

Don't forget to take care of yourself, and document every single action that takes place, and has taken place since rawat first spoke with your father and the subsequent calls, etc.

Too bad you threw the Charanand card away, but it's understandable. They are all a bunch of liars, just like their lord and master.

Much love,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:23:26 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Back off EV!
Message:
Dear Cynthia,

They are focusing on my father and getting him to put pressure on me to do what they want. He was contacted by their lawyer. I am an ex-premie after all...

My mother will not speak to them or their lawyer which I appreciate.

Maybe they want to stress me out so much that I collapse and give up.
This is exhausting and painful.

I really don't appreciate their methods.

Abi

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 08:55:35 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: sylviecyn@yahoo.com
To: Cynthia
Subject: PS, Abi
Message:
If you ever want to vent privately about how you feel, you know you can email me any time.

I'm very concerned about you! Those creeps! Sends shivers down my spine.

Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:24:50 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: thanks
Message:
Thanks Cynthia,

I'll write to you soon.

Abi

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:16:26 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Don't you want to write a new chapter
Message:
for the Jagdeo page, and give details of all the hassels made by EV on your family since the last Amaroo event ?
[ The Jagdeo issue ]
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 16:10:16 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: stars@uvic.ca
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Thoughtful of you, JM
Message:
Thank god you're here, JM. These EV arsepics are way out of control.

I'd like to talk to you privately sometime, at your convenience.

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 14:10:46 (EDT)
From: DepressedaboutMJ
Email: MahaMindF@aol.com
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: GULP..Well..here I go...
Message:
Hi Everybody...Rich here...Received knowledge in '73 and have been going thru the angst and agony of trying to figure out the Mindfuck that is Maharaji and Knowledge for Lo these many years..

I ran across ex-premie.org...just a few days and have been Blown away by the Revelations by Michael Dettmers..et Al...I am a bit confused about how and where to post and use this forum (what are threads, How do I start a topic , how do I find all the Old posts etc) but I NEED to get clarity on the Subject of Maharaji and Knowledge.

Briefly my dilemma has always been....with all the confusion,inconsistencies and outright lies that have often been present in premiedom, It was still my experience that there was something very special about Maharaji. I had several Cosmic Experiences intially in his presence that convinced my very quickly that he MUST be what he says 'The Lord(God) of the Universe' ( and he DID claim that!!)..Subsequently...i have often experienced 'an energy' coming (I have believed) from M in programs/festivals/darshan lines that was Incredibly beautiful and Felt like Home.

Yet Maharaji has been an INCREDIBLE MINDFUCK...He Claimed he was the Lord..and then Denied he ever Claimed it..Told us we Had to Surrender Our LIVES to him as our Creator...then said..oh...just practice Knowledge and live YOUR Life...Demanded we have Complete Faith in Him..and then just said follow your heart..Said following his Agya was our DUTY..and then said...'participate..if you want to...Said we were only going to have 3 day programs..and then never gave another 3 day program again...(these all from just the top of my head)..... Thus my Dilemma..which has forced me to use all sorts of manipulations of Logic.... trying to make sense out of confusion.

Well...I dont want to go on too much...just wanted to get started
posting...and I want to say thank you SO MUCH for those of You who are Sincerely Sharing your Experience and Perspective Of Maharaji and
Knowledge...not from the Dogma..but from your Real Hearts and
Minds..(esp Michael Dettmers) ..Thank you...Rich (DepressedaboutMJ)

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:14:28 (EDT)
From: abi
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Don't you want to write a new chapter
Message:
I am thinking of doing this. I do not like the way they are operating.
It is putting me under a great deal of stress and making me physically ill.
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:29:30 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: abi
Subject: EV's behavior is unscrupulous
Message:
Abi, EV's behavior is unscrupulous. Trying to enlist your parents in a campaign against you is dicey business, particularly depending upon whom they employ to carry out the campaign.

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:59:06 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: I agree, Marianne
Message:
Hi Marianne,

I just emailed you. I agree, this behavior by EV is dicey. The nerve! For them to try to use Abi's parents is harrassment, IMO. I can't imagine the stress this is causing Abi and her family.

Shame on EV, and Maharaji! They certainly are showing their true colors, aren't they?

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 13:07:49 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: I agree, Marianne
Message:
Not only is it harrassment, it is potentially actionable.
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 14:45:33 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: That's what I was thinking, Marianne...n/t
Message:
nn
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:23:42 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: abi
Subject: Maybe writing all this would help ?
Message:
I'll be glad to put it online.
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Date: Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 11:28:19 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Maybe writing all this would help ?
Message:
I have to discuss that with a couple of people first. I am going to e-mail you something now.
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