Ex-Premie Forum 6 Archive
From: Jul 14, 2001 To: Aug 02, 2001 Page: 3 of: 5


Pauline Premie -:- Being negative about Maharaji and Elan Vital -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:56:07 (EDT)
__ don puerco avatar -:- Re: Being negative about Maharaji and Elan Vital -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 08:45:33 (EDT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- Liberation on the cheap my old Pork? [nt] -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:48:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ don puerco -:- Re: Liberation on the cheap my old Pork? -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 07:33:26 (EDT)
__ __ wolfie -:- simply not honest -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 10:34:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ janet -:- Re: simply not honest -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:08:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ don puerco maharaj -:- Re: simply not honest -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 08:34:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ wolfie -:- Re: simply not honest -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 03:04:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ don puerco -:- Re: simply not honest -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 08:39:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ janet -:- Re: simply not honest -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:07:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ don puerco -:- Re: simply not honest -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 07:37:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ wolfie -:- you've found the Lord -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 11:16:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ don honcho puerco -:- Re: you've found the Lord -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 09:15:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ don honcho puerco -:- Re: you've found the Lord -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 09:03:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ don honcho -:- Re: you've found the Lord -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 08:42:25 (EDT)
__ __ Silvia -:- But do you know how many I know -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:17:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ don puerco -:- Re: But do you know how many I know -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:03:35 (EDT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Re: Being negative about Maharaji and Elan Vital -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 04:16:41 (EDT)
__ toby -:- Re: Being negative about Maharaji and Elan Vital -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 03:41:37 (EDT)
__ __ Silvia -:- Who wants bliss all the time -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:17:44 (EDT)
__ Tonette -:- Re: Being negative about Maharaji and Elan Vital -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 22:58:18 (EDT)
__ __ Carlos -:- Due to my having not gotten free from -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 03:29:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: Carlos, simple question for you -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 15:32:28 (EDT)

hamzen -:- hello, hello, what's going on here then -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:43:17 (EDT)
__ Nigel -:- It got very ugly. Ham.. -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:39:41 (EDT)
__ __ ham -:- I'm really pissed I missed it -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:29:52 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Re: Hi! Who are you???? -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 15:38:20 (EDT)
__ __ hamzen -:- What do I want, have to think on that -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:42:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: What do I want, have to think on that -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:19:39 (EDT)
__ __ Marianne -:- hamzen is a long time London ex -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:42:58 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- We missed the Bloodbath. -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:11:34 (EDT)
__ Robyn -:- Re: hello, hello, what's going on here then -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:02:41 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- Cultures naturelles (ot) -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:15:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Cultures naturelles (ot) -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 20:30:09 (EDT)
__ Tim G -:- Off Topic -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 19:20:39 (EDT)
__ __ ham -:- Yeah, thanks for that -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 19:46:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Ham and Tim.. (ot) -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:41:00 (EDT)
__ such -:- 'becoming' barrow boy? ever since 1971 -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:47:59 (EDT)
__ __ ham -:- Maybe you're right -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:49:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ suchabanana -:- sure! you da ham, ah'm da Zen! -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 19:46:58 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Hey, Ham! Nice to see you -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:49:25 (EDT)
__ __ hamzen -:- Re: Hey, Ham! Nice to see you -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:04:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Hey, Ham! Nice to see you -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:06:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ ham -:- Fucking baking here man -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:11:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Steve -:- Re: Fucking baking here man -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:31:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- You bet maytee, more than one I hope! -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:36:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Ham, Jim's not telling you everything -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:05:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Excellent, Jim doing a Course in Miracles -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:46:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Cheers hamzen! -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:27:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Hiya gorgeous :) -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:57:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- You're naked? -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 20:45:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Bloody Riot! -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:38:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- But what about darkness and the light? -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 19:10:11 (EDT)

DepressedaboutMJ -:- Regarding Elan Vitals Claim and $45 a Head -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 14:59:42 (EDT)
__ don puerco avatar -:- Re: Regarding Elan Vitals Claim and $45 a Head -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:14:12 (EDT)
__ Harry -:- Re: Regarding Elan Vitals Claim and $45 a Head -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:51:24 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Hm .... I duNO, Harry -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:42:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ la-ex -:- I'd say the lower end is more likely -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:29:56 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- Harry, ever been involed in 'Fund raising'? -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:32:52 (EDT)
__ __ Silvia -:- Listen PROGRAMMED ROBOT -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 01:50:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ don puerco avatar -:- Re: Listen PROGRAMMED ROBOT -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:06:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Silvia -:- Re: Listen PROGRAMMED ROBOT -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:21:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ don puerco -:- Re: Listen PROGRAMMED ROBOT -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:10:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ don puerco -:- Re: Listen PROGRAMMED ROBOT -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 07:31:56 (EDT)
__ __ Abi -:- but Harry why -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 22:45:52 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Re: Not surprised to hear THAT bullshit! -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 20:01:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ Silvia -:- 'THEY' are so special -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 02:06:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Hi Silvia -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 15:47:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- hahahahha u mean money -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 23:27:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- He learned to add early -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:12:21 (EDT)
__ __ Francesca :C) -:- Even if this were true -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:27:10 (EDT)
__ __ Harry -:- Some numbers -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:12:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- Re: Some numbers -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 21:41:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ la-ex -:- Let's not hit and run, Harry. Tell us, -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 21:35:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Here's how JM answered you on 19/1/2000 -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 22:14:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- Re: Here's how JM answered you on 19/1/2000 -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 15:37:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Getting true costs, plus Deep Dish.. -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 22:25:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, thanks, LAX -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 21:43:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ lax -:- Has EV ever explained costs exactly? -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 22:00:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Thanks for your demeanor -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:34:00 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- I did AV free at m. events + -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:18:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ creativejani -:- Re: I did AV free at m. events + -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 15:45:12 (EDT)
__ __ JohnT -:- lies, damned lies and EV spins -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:13:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- Re: lies, damned lies and EV spins -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:39:12 (EDT)
__ __ Dermot -:- Harry the EV monitor -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:09:53 (EDT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Hold on a mnute, Harry.... -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:07:29 (EDT)
__ __ Joe -:- Re: Regarding Elan Vitals Claim and $45 a Head -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:06:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ such -:- EVI padding + non-disclosures = rugu-holes! -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:26:54 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Are you calling me a liar? -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:56:50 (EDT)
__ please let us know ASAP -:- when there is a program anywhere. [nt] -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:40:31 (EDT)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Regarding Elan Vitals Claim and $45 a Head -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:44:14 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Here are the figures! -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:35:05 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- Breaking down the numbers. -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:20:29 (EDT)
__ __ Jethro -:- Jim you forgot something. -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 03:54:08 (EDT)
__ __ DepressedaboutMJ -:- Re: Here are the figures! -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:55:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- May I quibble a bit? -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:01:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ DepressedaboutMJ -:- Re: May I quibble a bit? -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:07:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- From the Elanvital.org website -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:34:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, they should respond any minute now -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:09:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ DepressedaboutMJ -:- Just Pulled up My Chair.. -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:12:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- Re: Just Pulled up My Chair.. -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:02:20 (EDT)
__ __ Joe -:- Fantastic, Jim. Well done -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:50:40 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- So let's do the math -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:46:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ la-ex -:- Face it,Jim,time to give up the day job... -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:56:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Naw, I'm too much of a wild-card -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:01:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- maybe JW,with JH as special advisor' to Mr. Whalen -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:11:48 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- The Maharaji Lie about things being FREE -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:12:47 (EDT)
__ __ Francesca :C) -:- Jim and Joe -- BAM! -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:10:04 (EDT)
__ __ Timmi -:- Re: The Maharaji Lie about things being FREE -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:54:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Yes they are registered as a church with the IRS -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:31:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Timmi -:- Re: they are registered as a church with the IRS -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:41:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ BeenThereDoneThat -:- Re: they are registered as a church with the IRS -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:09:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- I think 0 income is ... -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:59:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ DepressedaboutMJ -:- Elan Vital Email said 50%. Whats Happening here? -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:03:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Here's from EV's website -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:34:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Timmi -:- Re: Email said 50%. Whats Happening here? -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:13:06 (EDT)
__ __ Dermot -:- Talking 'bout money -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:31:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Re: Talking 'bout money -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:41:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ CD -:- Re: Talking -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:20:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Could CD have possibly missed the issue? -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:32:42 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Re: The BIG Maharaji Lie about things being FREE -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:30:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- Deb, is there any way to make pigs fly? (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:34:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Buy them a Gulfstream jet of their own? [nt] -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:02:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Hahah timmi, 5 mins quicker than Jim NT -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:43:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Timmi -:- Re: Deb, is there any way to make pigs fly? (nt) -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:57:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- SHIT! How embarrasing! [nt] -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:03:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- FA, could you please delete Timmi's joke? -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:13:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tmmi -:- Re: FA, could you please delete Timmi's joke? -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:18:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- What do you mean? -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:29:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Timmi -:- Re: What do you mean? -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:23:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Cost of new GV -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:52:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- this; N54PR -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:46:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Timmi -:- Re: this; N54PR -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:48:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- the very one ! -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:15:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- If I were married to a premie .... -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:51:29 (EDT)

Joe -:- The Cult 'Evolution' is very Dishonest -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 14:58:14 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- Re: The Cult 'Evolution' is very Dishonest -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:01:36 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Re: The Cult 'Evolution' is very Dishonest -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 20:48:18 (EDT)
__ __ bill -:- Re: The Cult 'Evolution' is very Dishonest -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:57:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Bill, is that really true? -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:06:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- Re: Bill, is that really true? -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:44:08 (EDT)


Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:56:07 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Being negative about Maharaji and Elan Vital
Message:
I haven't been around for awhile, as I've been busy trying to earn money to keep this room I've got. But, I'm living in Southern California, so I'm going to go to the Thousand Oaks event tomorrow, trying to scrape together the $45 donation. They really treat you like shit if you don't have it. Man, they practically strip-search you to prove you don't have the money. And if you don't fork over teh $30 for a Smartcard, you can forget about getting in anytime this month.

Just the other day, when I was reading thos posts from Michael Detttmers that Maharaji was fucking his devotees, I was thinking about how we are in no position to judge. How can we? We are pond scum and pond scum is the lowest of the low, unable to pass judgment on anyone, let alone the living Perfect Master. All I can say is Maharaji never fucked me, but it wasn't for lack of trying on my part, let me tell you. I get wet just thinking about it.

And I'm sure that if Maharaji wasn't taking drugs, getting drunk, and taking sexual advantage of his devotees, he wouldn't be relatable to the vast majority of people in this confused world, and then they wouldn't be able to be open to that love, that truth, that peace and that experience, which is his gift.

I know that when I was looking for a master, the first thing I looked for was someone who was having sex with his female devotees, and who also drank a lot, and took a lot of drugs.

Ostentatious wealth and conspicuous consumption, including owning multi-million-dollar yachts, and wearing $10,000 suits were attributes that were high on my list, too. Million-dollar watch collections are also so important.

I'm sure that's true of most other people, too, and that's why so many people have chosen Maharaji as their master. As the Elan Vital FAQs say, he is an enigma, but the number of people he has 'touched' (in many different ways, both inside and out, apparently) is remarkable.

Yes, Maharaji is just like Jesus in so many ways, except he has more money. I'm sure Jesus was having sex with everyone in sight, too, since he had prostitutes for friends. I bet all Maharaji's friends are prostitutes too, at least in spirit.

I'm also sure Buddha had a mistress and smoked pot, too. How would he have gotten a gut like that, if he hadn't toked a few and then ate bags of M&Ms? We just have to get rid of our concepts about what a Perfect Master is supposed to be like. Everything Maharaji does is just for us to blow our concepts so we can be more open to him and his love. If you have concepts about him, like that he isn't supposed to be a rich, adulterous alcoholic, how can you be open to that experience?

I can't wait for the event, to get a sight of Maharaji's feet. Since the close seats all go to large donors and FORs (friends of Raja Ji), I'll have to bring my binoculars to see his lotus feet.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 08:45:33 (EDT)
From: don puerco avatar
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Re: Being negative about Maharaji and Elan Vital
Message:
dear pauline, you must be real bad off in sunny california, right?
i never paid a fuckin' dime to attend any of the programs and i only
donated 10 bucks for the smartcard , i coulda paid less or nothing
and it wouldn't have made a difference. i mean if some people are so
dumb to think they'll secure themselves a place in heaven if they
donate a lotta money, well that's their problem, not mine.
but could it be you are too shy to come emptyhanded as a beggar
and leave with a heart full of love ????
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:48:48 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: don puerco avatar
Subject: Liberation on the cheap my old Pork? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 07:33:26 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Re: Liberation on the cheap my old Pork?
Message:
yep, sir
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 10:34:49 (EDT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: don puerco avatar
Subject: simply not honest
Message:
...no real name .....no own support....your friends have paid for you......without the stupid people you laugh about......you would have nothing to smoke or to eat.....have you payed ever something for anyone.....you don't live from your own work.....it's arrogant... that's your achievment......my friend.....this roll, you try to play creates confusion.....but if you like that.....but what's about your lonleyness.....nobody will hear you crying....cause you are a too proud beggar......ciao wolfi
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:08:52 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Re: simply not honest
Message:
...no real name .....no own support....your friends have paid for you......without the stupid people you laugh about......you would have nothing to smoke or to eat.....have you payed ever something for anyone.....you don't live from your own work.....it's arrogant... that's your achievment......my friend.....this roll, you try to play creates confusion.....but if you like that.....but what's about your lonleyness.....nobody will hear you crying....cause you are a too proud beggar......ciao wolfi


---

how is maharaji any different?
he said to follow him, didnt he?
his friends pay for everything and he laughs at them and ridicules them. he cries wolf and then lives to see it not come true.

how can yu blame a guy for following so closely what his master practices?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 08:34:21 (EDT)
From: don puerco maharaj
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: simply not honest
Message:
right on , janet...!!!clever gal !!!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 03:04:47 (EDT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: simply not honest
Message:
Hi Janet,

what I'v written to don Puerco is more privat because we had a lot of e-mail exchange. He normally makes fun of me and I make fun of him. Don Puerco can take a lot more, I think he is tough enough. I don't go along with his attitude, but he can be a very funny guy. I don't know why he does't write under his real name and why he thinks MJ has to be defended.Anyway he seems to be a hoplessly oldtimer and he gets the same spirituell high out of a good rock concert as he get's from listening to MJ, with the difference that he pays for the rock concert.

Please forgive me Don Puerco Avatar Nagual Rain....I hope the sun does not kill you.......ciao .....ciao.....................wolfie

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 08:39:06 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Re: simply not honest
Message:
my real name ?? i go along with my asshole buddy ( not literally !!!)
sathya gay baba who says ' i don't have a particular name or rather all names are mine ' so choose anyone ya like , wolfman, ciao...
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:07:46 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Re: simply not honest
Message:
...no real name .....no own support....your friends have paid for you......without the stupid people you laugh about......you would have nothing to smoke or to eat.....have you payed ever something for anyone.....you don't live from your own work.....it's arrogant... that's your achievment......my friend.....this roll, you try to play creates confusion.....but if you like that.....but what's about your lonleyness.....nobody will hear you crying....cause you are a too proud beggar......ciao wolfi


---

how is maharaji any different?
he said to follow him, didnt he?
his friends pay for everything and he laughs at them and ridicules them. he cries wolf and then lives to see it not come true.

how can yu blame a guy for following so closely what his master practices?

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 07:37:55 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Re: simply not honest
Message:
but you hear me crying , wolfie, doncha?? how about embarking on a
career as a missionary for jesus ???
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 11:16:30 (EDT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: don puerco
Subject: you've found the Lord
Message:
Hi Don Honcho,

I only understand you, when you write as a real person, I can't relate to airy fairy stuff ....sorry ......wolfie

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 09:15:23 (EDT)
From: don honcho puerco
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Re: you've found the Lord
Message:
okay forum god seemingly doesn't post my answer to this one !!!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 09:03:37 (EDT)
From: don honcho puerco
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Re: you've found the Lord
Message:
learned a new english phrase ??????exes make ya wise !!!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 08:42:25 (EDT)
From: don honcho
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Re: you've found the Lord
Message:
learned a new english phrase on the forum ????
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:17:06 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: don puerco avatar
Subject: But do you know how many I know
Message:
that do not have the money at all and charge it to their credit cards because they believe the bulshit that EV has financial trouble and need donations as constantly they say donations are greately appreciated etc., etc.? I was one of them: I did it for years.

heart full of love my ass. For how long the blissful programming stays? How soon you feel without power and needy of the next 'fix'? Look, educate yoruself: You are in a cult and read JM's post about spiritual ecstacy. You feel relax, putting your attention for so long and having to a group think experience but you can feel good if you empower yourself without needing a greedy guru who is willing to lie to you to enrich his pockets, to buy a Mercedes to one of his kids. Well, you gave $10, that is enough. Little by little is how he had made his bucks anyway. You participated because you believe he has extra power: Empowert yourself: You don't need crutches.

Good luck.

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:03:35 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: But do you know how many I know
Message:
first thing prempal said after his father's death was ' the perfect
master has left his body and still you do not realize his TRUE FORM.
as long as you do not realize god within, you will see the master in
that form that you want to.' so it was the premies that wanted to see
the master in the form of prempal, although he told them quite contrary.what has come out of this, you can see on the various forums.
you are all dealing with this physical form of prempal and NOT with
the TRUE FORM. since most premies seemed to be incapable of REAL EYES
ing the K, M came up with whatever he came up with. i do not consider
myself being in a cult, i am afraid prempal is in a cult. premies
created the cult, some of them are still in it, some have left and
complain of having been coaxed into it...but i refer to prempal's
first words as a master ' realize the master inside yourself ' that
is an empowerment, silvia....
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 04:16:41 (EDT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Re: Being negative about Maharaji and Elan Vital
Message:
You're great, Pauline. Nice to see you back. By the way, do you think Jesus smoked crack?

Steve

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 03:41:37 (EDT)
From: toby
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Re: Being negative about Maharaji and Elan Vital
Message:
yeah and the pope fucked mother theresa ,too.
It is your choice to believe all this shit , come on, pay your fee.
You are happy now after having a constant experience of bliss that
doesn't vanish like material experiences , now after decades practicing, don't you?

If not!!!

you have wasted your live

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:17:44 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: toby
Subject: Who wants bliss all the time
Message:
Only ignorant people do. Would you smile if your two year-old kd died?

Accept your human emotions and that will make you be a more beautiful human being. Life is full of colors: IT Is not black and white, ignoramous.

IGNORANCE IS BLISS

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 22:58:18 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Re: Being negative about Maharaji and Elan Vital
Message:
Ah hahah haha hardeharharhar
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 03:29:58 (EDT)
From: Carlos
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Due to my having not gotten free from
Message:
drugs until April '91, with a taste of recovery inn'73-'74 due to service in an ashram, I went to more events that M was at on the house than I ever did by giving the sugested donation or paying the registration fee. I also gave substantial sums other times. But the ones who let me in for free who didn't know that treated me the same as the ones who did. And all of the 15 or so times I was seated in the first 5 rows, including my only time in the front row, were times I got in free. (and I have never paid for a seat, beyond the registration fee.)

I don't know why it happened so diferently for you Pauline. But from what I've see, what I went thru was a more common response to lacking a registration fee than yours. If it really came down consistantly the way you describe, that sounds more like a response to security concerns than to financial ones. Waiting for no-show seats, for fill in at the back, I've seen freebies get stuck with that, yes. But not what you tell of.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 15:32:28 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Carlos
Subject: Re: Carlos, simple question for you
Message:
Yes but Carlos,

if everyone only paid $10 and got in free (how could it be otherwise-there's not charge, remember) than Maha would be as filthy rich as he is today.

I don't want to be presumptous. But I have to assume it is because you didn't the money to spare. Is that so?

Carlos, if you had $1,000,000 given to you today, would you give maha some of it? If so, how much?

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:43:17 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: hamzen@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: hello, hello, what's going on here then
Message:
blimey, you go away for a few weeks, and it's all change bigtime at ex-premie.org, what's been happening, is this forum move permanent, reading through the posts I can suss that 'stuff' has been happening, but I'm a bit lost, or maybe it's not worth the bother, I do see that the tedious peace & love 'aussie' who gives cats a bad name is still around.

Love the post about the costs for big boys prog in america shows he's becoming like the worst kind of barrow boy rip-off merchant, unbeleivable

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:39:41 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: hamzen
Subject: It got very ugly. Ham..
Message:
Apparently cyber-punches were thrown (according to one of her majesty's police constabules who was proceeding westwards down the Mile End Road at the time, pencil at hand, and happened to notice a kerfuffle).

How's it all hangin, mate?

Keep it in your shorts,
Nige

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:29:52 (EDT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: I'm really pissed I missed it
Message:
Nothing to beat a 'cyber scuffle' for a bit of a laff, mind you as a scally you'd know all about that.

By the way the Planxty has been going down really well, tanks for that!

Check out me site and let us know what you think, especially improvements to the articles, www.hamzen.f2s.com
Also any good links you have, there's an e-mail link on me site.

I'll e-mail ya over the next few days, it's great to be back on-line, but the list of sites to check out is frightening, especially now I'm into web design.
Any articles you might be interested in posting?

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 15:38:20 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Re: Hi! Who are you????
Message:
My name is Deborah. I've never seen your posts. Who are you and what do you want?

Apparently everyone knows you, and I saw you flirting over at LG?

ladies man?

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:42:28 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: What do I want, have to think on that
Message:
Calm down deborah, I've been here on & off since 98, and I've never seen your posts either, but what's that between friends eh!

As to what I want, what's on offer?

Probably sport more than anything, having had a few months away I'd forgotten how hilariously funny premie's can be, hard to believe I once half took big boy seriously, ahh well you live and learn. Mind you it does show you what you can get away with in this life, when the family guru business is gone reckon he could make a killing writing rip-off-salesman books.
He doesn't even make an effort any more and he's still raking it in.

Assume LG is Life's Grate, cd's little forum, is that still going, last time I popped in there the place was dead on its feet, is someone impersonating me there?

And as for flirting, it's good for the sole.

So what says we start again, D-d-deborah, (t-rex remember?)

Why so aggressive?

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:19:39 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Re: What do I want, have to think on that
Message:
Arrrrgggggg...Silly, you didn't get my irony. Sorry.
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:42:58 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: hamzen is a long time London ex
Message:
If he's flirting over on LG, he's pulling someone's leg. He's been married to Robyn twice, and Anth once.

He's a sweetie.

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:11:34 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: We missed the Bloodbath.
Message:
Hi Ham',

Hope all is well with you and yours. I too missed the forum-food-fight of the summer. God punished me by zapping my pc with lightning. When I got back, they were washing the ketchup off the walls.

I don't know what the forum is coming to. It's now in the hands of the mad, hermit, anarchist, Sir Dave, and EPO is now run from Latvia. I think we are being absorbed into the remnants of the communist party.

Take it easy (but take it).

Comrade Anth, the horizontal revolutionary.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:02:41 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Re: hello, hello, what's going on here then
Message:
Life is good, eh?
Now all you need to do is take that body without a stich on out into the fresh air!!! :)
Love ya,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:15:54 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Cultures naturelles (ot)
Message:
Hi Robyn,

I finally munched the last of my 'Bonbon Suisse aux plantes', (which I always considered yours anyway, but you told me to keep when I was in Paris).

Anyway, you'll never guess what's in the tin now.

Anth 'proviennent de cultures naturelles dans les montagnes suisses'.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 20:30:09 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Cultures naturelles (ot)
Message:
Hi Anth! :)
'Anyway, you'll never guess what's in the tin now.'

NOW I WANT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

I had brownies + 2 weekends ago at a friend's. The live on a creek and I use to know premies that lived there in the 70's, it was a great day, I got there early and they were still working so I got my time in the sun in my all together and then good conversation etc with good friends.
Jessica and her girlfriend come here tomorrow and Jade comes HOME on Thursday and then Hank and Dave get married here on Saturday. Complete with 300 people and a CELEBRATION! Can't wait! :)
Love,
Robyn

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 19:20:39 (EDT)
From: Tim G
Email: timgitti@indigo.ie
To: hamzen
Subject: Off Topic
Message:
Hi Hamzen..like you I missed the fur fight but am glad that the forum has resumed its primary purpose
Did you get my CD yet
Best, Tim
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 19:46:24 (EDT)
From: ham
Email: hamzen@hotmail.com
To: Tim G
Subject: Yeah, thanks for that
Message:
An interesting mixture that was as well, though I did find it a bit sad the first couple of listens, but then I was a bit flat at the time, I'll e-mail you more feedback if you're interested,
got a couple of tapes to send to ya, can you e-mail us an address

Could you give us some feedback on the paintings on my site, www.hamzen.f2s.com, would be much appreciated, and no being polite eh!

Great to hear from ya, you really are a gent in the best meaning of the word

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:41:00 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Ham and Tim.. (ot)
Message:
Gents both of you. Handsome too. I will send you feedback on the on the CD, Tim. Moley has some thoughts too. Ham: are you coming up for the mushroom harvest this autumn? We (me and Moley) ae going to the Fairport Cropredy fest next weekend. Should be a good gig.

Hmm.. will have to give Joy a ring.

Nige
A gent in the worst meaning of the word..

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:47:59 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: 'becoming' barrow boy? ever since 1971
Message:
hi Ham!
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:49:10 (EDT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Maybe you're right
Message:
but at least in those days he had enough self respect to at least attempt to cover his trax.

Hey, does this mean we're talking now?

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 19:46:58 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: sure! you da ham, ah'm da Zen!
Message:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzazen... zztop zzzappa cosmic debris zzzzzzzzzzzz

ciao fer now, got some work t'do,

Peace + lentils,

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:49:25 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Hey, Ham! Nice to see you
Message:
New management, for one thing. JHB, webmaster. Dave, FA.

How've you been?

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:04:36 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: hamzen@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Hey, Ham! Nice to see you
Message:
Awwright squire, good to 'see' you too.
I'm back online for a few months, so I'll be around a bit.
Bit of burn-out this year, but that's all past thank god, re-trained in web design, couple of small changes to the first stage of my site and I'll give ya the address.
So did your cd sell like the proverbial hotcakes?

So what's the gossip then, I've obviously missed loads, picking up snippets around but still confused, e-mail if you fancy yeah.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:06:57 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Re: Hey, Ham! Nice to see you
Message:
CD's still being tinkered with. (Don't ask!)

Gossip? You mean chit chat? Hm, let's just say .... naw, forget it.

How's the weather?

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:11:27 (EDT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Fucking baking here man
Message:
We're talking 32?c/90+ fahrenheit, but good practice for the next few years here!
See that UN report on global warming?
Maybe that's whybig boys saving all his big buckeroonis, so he can set up a self supporting artificial city for all the believers, and there was I thinking he only thinks of himself, tut tut.

So any new exposures on big boy?
Somebody told me jagdeo's touring again, you heard anything?

Re the cd, does that mean it's not for sale at the mo, was gonna send ya a few bucks, dead intrigued to hear what it sounds like.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:31:43 (EDT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Re: Fucking baking here man
Message:
Hi Hamzen,

Looks like I'm moving back there from Portugal at the right time !

Our summers been cool, windy and strange. This global warming could really change the ol' yookay !

Fancy a pint when I get to London ?

Steve / Hal

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:36:15 (EDT)
From: ham
Email: hamzen@hotmail.com
To: Steve
Subject: You bet maytee, more than one I hope!
Message:
Which side of the big smoke you movin too?
Been fucking hotter than hawaii here recently, people going all over europe to colder terrains.
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:05:09 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Ham, Jim's not telling you everything
Message:
Welcome back Hamzen. With so many New Agers posting on FV, Jim decided to broaden his horizons. So he took 10 days off from the forum to attend a combined Course in Miracles and Mysteries of Channeling intensive in Sedona, AZ. Can't you tell the difference? Sorry Jim but somebody had to clue him in on the truth.

Richard formerly known as Postie

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:46:15 (EDT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Excellent, Jim doing a Course in Miracles
Message:
I'd pay money for the video of THAT,

Don'tcha know it would be MILES more entertaining than what that tired old fart, his royal highness, delivers now, and miles less seedy.

Hard to imagine we were ever involved in any way with such a fraud.

Are there any new agers under 40 I wonder, maybe I'm just lucky in the people I know. Even one of my best mates who's into reiki ran a mile in some meditation group as SOON as the first hint of cult aspects appeared. Everyone seems to have so much more self-respect now.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:27:45 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Cheers hamzen!
Message:
Hello hamzen! How are you? Sorry to hear you're baking over the pond. It will only get worse if George W has his way. Yes, our fearless leader is back embracing the wonderful, tried and true isolationist policies of his conservative predecessors!

There was a riot here a few weeks ago, hence the new management.

The premies have erected several sites, which should all be categorized under the heading of 'Life as an ostrich'.

Love ya, your babes, Marianne

Love you

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:57:12 (EDT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Hiya gorgeous :)
Message:
Bizarrely I'm loving the weather, sitting here with not a stitch on, windows wide, and it's midnight.

As for Mr Bush, when will the americans wake up, there must be increased flooding already in the missisippi basin, no?

I'm waiting for the questions at the press conferences about family values, and our legacy to our grandchildren, the squirming will be wonderful, he really is the wrong man at the wrong time.

Check out my site tomorrow evening at www.hamzen.f2s,com, written a nice little ditty on global warming. Did you know 40% of the artic circle has melted in the last fifty years, crazy or what?

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 20:45:48 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: ham
Subject: You're naked?
Message:
I'll be right over.

hahhahahaha

Are you still at the same number? If so, I'll give you a ring in a few days. All is well here in SF. No trip to Europe in the next year - real life and work have once again taken over. I miss you guys!

Marianne

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:38:58 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Bloody Riot!
Message:
Hey Ham,

Some premies decided to call us a hate-group cult and Jim got kicked off F5, mistakes made, change of personnel, and Jim's back.

I stayed out of the fire, made a move 1,100 feet up into the Green Mtns. and was about to post here how much I am enjoying life, a euphemism, by his gooby grace, I am persistent to reclaim!

The whole story is this: premies can't debate or question and WE CAN! So even though they even had the fuckin' nerve to try to take over this new and getting better forum 6, they can't do it!

Hope you're well,
Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 19:10:11 (EDT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: But what about darkness and the light?
Message:
Some ancient memory tells me he repeated ad infinitum how the light destroys darkness, because darkness is a non-existence, why does it matter what's said here, when one look from Him makes us all invisible!

God it must be bloody hard work being a premie now.

When was this bust up, sounds like a right laff!

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 14:59:42 (EDT)
From: DepressedaboutMJ
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Regarding Elan Vitals Claim and $45 a Head
Message:
Thank you all for your comments..but Im still a bit confused...In the Email Elan Vital sentto me concerning registering for the Thousand Oaks program this Tuesday they asked for a (minimum) donation of $45 to attend the event. In the E-mail they claimed that:
'This fee covers a little more then 50% of the event costs. Additional contributions are needed and greatly appreciated.'

The math just doesnt add up to me and I was wondering if any of you can address the specifics to see where I might be wrong.

First I would think a reasonably conservative estimate for attendence at the Event might be 2,000 people. At $45 a pop that makes an expected take of $90,000
Now if this covers 'a little more than 50% of the event costs' then that means that they are expecting the costs for This Event to be Approximately $ 150,000 (being conservative again)

Now the event is being held at the Thousand Oaks Civic Art Plaza. I can not imagine the cost for a one evening event to be over say $10,000 ( most likely not even that..this is NOT Carnegie Hall). Since Maharaji lives within an hour drive of the event, I cant imagine that he will need Living Quarters or Airplane expenses. Even if he decides to fly his Helicopter over the Hill to avoid Monday traffic....I dont think that will be an exorbitant expense. As We All now...labor in these cases is VERY Inexpensive (Participation I think it is called now)

So Again, It just DOESNT add Up...From my figures the Upward limit of cost for this event would be $20,000 all expenses included. I suspect it might be much less than that. What that Means is that the Expected take of $90,000 will be 4 to 5 times the cost of the event (not slightly more than 50% that Elan Vital claims) and that a break even amount to charge people attending would be maybe $10 at most.

Are My Figures or assumptions incorrect in any way??? This is important to me because after all the Revelations about the REAL Maharaji that I have recently read from multiple people who have been very close to him, His Credibility and that of his Organization are very important to me. If anyone from Elan Vital is reading this perhaps you can respond and set the Record Straight..
Anyone else with some Insight specifically about the Assumptions and numbers I have stated here..I would appreciate hearing from...Thank You, DepressedaboutMJ

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:14:12 (EDT)
From: don puerco avatar
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: Re: Regarding Elan Vitals Claim and $45 a Head
Message:
they will always lament that there ain't enuff money..never mind..
go ahead and tell'em you ain't got none and they are BOUND to let you
in...
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:51:24 (EDT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: Re: Regarding Elan Vitals Claim and $45 a Head
Message:
Hi Depressed,

Most of the actual expenses haven't been touched on here. But, if it lessens your depression, factor in the cost of worldwide satellite broadcasts of one event, which are huge (and now free to the viewers), and the fact that all of those camera operators, satellite techs (both locally and at all the uplinks), editors, equipment trucks, lighting people, sound engineers, etc., are all paid. As are all the union costs, not just the one mentioned. The production costs alone for an event like this would probably shock you. Anyone who has been around the production aspect would know how silly this discussion is. Look at the credits at the end of any satellite broadcast. 95% of those people are paid for their time.

These things all cost a lot more than this particular hall rental, which may also be misrepresented here in the first place. I don't know that, in this case, but most hall rentals are WAY more than what was quoted here. By the way, that $45 is stated clearly (at least this time) as a donation. Anyone who can't pay squat (or $5) will still get a seat.

Maharaji does NOT get paid for speaking. That's pure fabrication.

If you sit here and wait for any answers based on reality, you'll be waiting a very long time. Don't believe everything you read, especially in this medium.

Here's hoping your depression and the breathless, paranoid, tabloid dribble that fueled it evaporate in time for you to enjoy the rest of your summer.

Harry

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:42:55 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Hm .... I duNO, Harry
Message:
It took me a fair bit of time but I finally got through to Echostar's subsidiary, DISH Networks, the company that hosts these broadcasts. You'd think it'd be fairly easy to get ballpark rates but, for some reason, it isn't. Right now I'm awaiting a call back from a sales rep but, in the meantime, here's what the guy told me. Now, he was anxious that I didn't hold him to these rates but here's what his rough understanding was. DISH only broadcasts in the U.S. (by that he might mean Canada as well, I didn't ask). Depending on how regular or big a customer you were, you could rent their satellite for private broadcasts such as EV is doing for anywhere from $500 / hr. to $1200 / hr.

Like I say, I hope to get more accurate figures but this is what I know for now.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:29:56 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'd say the lower end is more likely
Message:
Jim-

Based on their time slots and the fact that they are regular customers, guaranteeing Dish 2 weekly programs for at leat a year at at a time, I would assume, as with all similar things, ev would get the lower or lowest rate possible.

It would be interesting to figure in all of the costs for a satellite transmission, including camrea crew, editing and transmission.
The visions camera has got to be cheap, plus editors are probably free...I think they were advertising that people with an I-mac could do some rough editing for them at home as service...

They probably had a good size outlay for the best equipment that donations can buy...but after the initial outlay, it's relly pretty cheap...I know a good deal about shooting and editing video...it's very reasonable now....

Also, many of the transmissions are parts of a program..
And some of them are made up totally from 'pieces' of programs.
Also, nature shots, old footage of m, interviews etc., make each one hour program very easy/cheap to produce, although by the grace of m, I'm sure these peoples lives are hectic beyond belief, as I'm sure he has numerous silly demands for perfection to keep them off balance...

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:32:52 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Harry, ever been involed in 'Fund raising'?
Message:
In my day it worked like this:

There were always massive overheads- simply parking his private jet costs a fortune, not to mention the extravagant, massive day to day cost of running his houses around the world, and feeding his servants.

Nobody likes to say 'No', to Captain Rawat. (If he told you he wanted one of his Merc's gold plating, would you turn around and say, 'No. Get real Rawat.' Of course you wouldn't Harry. He's your creator right?

And then, every few months, the Captain, in the manner of a spoiled child, demands another multi-million dollar toy. He gives an order to one of his arse-lickers, and the scramble starts again.

What used to happen was, the cult had a rough idea which premie communities could be milked most. Countries were given a percentage of the total and the national co-ordinator would be called and told, 'The Captain wants this. You have to raise this amount. Do it or look for another job.'

There were other crises from time to time too, usually due to mismanagement of events.

I was a premie for 25 years. The techniques changed, the organisation changed, my attitude changed, Rawat's presentation of himself changed, the events changed, the literature changed, but one thing never changed.

Throughout the years, the premies were hit for money, in every conceivable way, using every conceivable excuse.

Harry, you can't believe that stuff you spouted about the expenses of the programme.

Here's a question for you.

Where do you think the cash that supports Rawat in his millionaire lifestyle comes from?

We all know the answer to that one don't we?

Anth been there

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 01:50:22 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Listen PROGRAMMED ROBOT
Message:
You are not depressed: YOU ARE GONE!!

If YOU saw yourself from here you would be joining force with us, you pathetic full of chains person who claims to be free...

Wake upu: YOU ARE IN A CULT SUPPORTING THE WORDLY GREEDY DREAMS OF AN ALCHOLIC, PROSTITUTE USER, LIAR GURU!

The only sadness I see in some ex-premies is that to know that the one who for DECADES said was our best friend was actually the biggest deceiver we could have ever encountered: He snatched our souls, the bastard! He invaded a very, very private part of us. If you enjoy such a bullshit and like it: SCRAM! We have the right to be here, you fucking idiot!

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:06:45 (EDT)
From: don puerco avatar
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: Listen PROGRAMMED ROBOT
Message:
so these are the words of the kind and loving exes....love and truth
seems to apply only if u are a down and out maharaji hater...if some-
one holds a different view the love seems to rapildly fade away.??
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:21:32 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: don puerco avatar
Subject: Re: Listen PROGRAMMED ROBOT
Message:
It all depends if you want to adore and reverence a guy or not. There are many types of love. What he demands from premies in my opinion is immoral and abusive: He invades a vey deep part of people's hearts and makes them little. He doesn't empower people. Listen to his words and how he contradicts himself enough to let all wondering but the truth is: HE DOESN'T WNT PEOPLE TO BE INDEPENDANT. He needs you too. Is part of the whole show.

A person doesn't need a guru but he convinced us over the decades that we do. No we don't. My life is so much real now than it ever was with him and my way of loving is so much sincere. You need to began to use yoru reasoning capacities. What is waiting for you is real freedom.

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:10:58 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: Listen PROGRAMMED ROBOT
Message:
silvia, i responded to this one in a thread above..confused premie
i am
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 07:31:56 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: Listen PROGRAMMED ROBOT
Message:
first thing prempal said after his father's death was: the perfect
master has gone but still you have not realized his TRUE FORM. as long
as you do not realize god within yourself you will keep on seeing the
master in that form that you want to see . so whose problem is it
when people / premies want to see the master in the form of prempal ??
when i am talking about maharaji i am refering to that form that also
prempal is refering to when talking about the master. it's a matter
of REAL EYES ation...most of the people posting here also have been
with m for 25 to 30 years or so and still don't seem to understand
what he's talkin' bout...poor prempal....seems to me HE is in a cult.
jim morrison also took to drinking when looking at the poor state
of his fans/devotees....prempal you have my sympathies
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 22:45:52 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: but Harry why
Message:
is Rawat so very rich and where did all that money come from?

Does he get paid for anything he does? What is his job exactly?

Also, do you know who is on the EV Board of Directors in America?

And how come he presented himself as The Lord of the Universe?

And why does he like it when people kiss his feet and sing Arti to him?

Could it be that Rawat is the head of an international cult?

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 20:01:27 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Re: Not surprised to hear THAT bullshit!
Message:
Who do you think you are talking to?

Why don't you go preach to the choir? You know LG. I'm sure they're licking their wounds over the money concept bomb.

Nobody in their un-culted mind believes you. I did service for years. Premies give and give and give and fuck-face takes and takes and takes.

$90 K for a ride in his $200K car to deliver an unprofessional talk to a bunch of drooling idiots looking for their opiate cult-leader just look at them. OH Puh-leeze.

NOT A CULT. NOT A CULT. NOT A CULT. NOT A CULT. NOT A CULT.

Keep telling yourself that.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 02:06:11 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: 'THEY' are so special
Message:
...so full of bullshit and they thing is nectar...SHESHH

Just because a monkey dresses as a man it doesn't mean it is a man...

Premies behaviors and ideas expossed here show well the sadness of the cult: Ready to ridicule themselves to support the lie they have come to believe. They come here and attack, make fun of people's emotional states as if that can deny the fact that the GURU IS FAKE...

The superiority complex this kind of premies display is but one proof of the cult programming because in reality they lack common sense: They forgot how addition works? What about substraction? Where is all the money we put over the years? Where all the onantions went? You bet I am angry! Many of us are angry and to feel happy for all what we lost would be what? What is their reasoning?!!!! I feel paryticularly disgusted and 'hatefult' toward LARD tonight!

MAHARAJI, YOU ARE THE SCUM OF THIS EARTH AND I SAY ONE MORE TIME: SHAME ON YOU, YOU GREEDY ASS! AND THAT IS INSULTING THE ANIMALS...AND THEY ARE DOING THEIR OWN THING. You? You invaded dangerous territories and you are accountable and responsible for your own decissions, SO, TIGHTEN YOUR BELT... Oh, how I wish to see you face to face...

Your premies are falling like flies in a fire and I am glad soon you will fall too...

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 15:47:58 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Hi Silvia
Message:
Geesh Louise, I thought you were ripping off DepressedaboutMJ for a moment. Until I looked closer. Premies are convinced so deep down that Maha is invincible and non-tarnished that they can't put 2+2 together. Maha can. He learned to add early.
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 23:27:53 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: hahahahha u mean money
Message:
right? He can add alright: YUCK!

I got your last e-mail.

Good explanation: Thanks for sending it!

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:12:21 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: He learned to add early
Message:
Now there's a thought. Wouldn't it be interesting if someone who knew the infant Rawat could explain what he was like between the age of 7 when he became GOD & 13/14 when he came west.

I look at my own 8 yr old son , his sweet innocence & developing enquiring mind, & feel cold anger that somone or some group of people
took a child & made him into a vehicle for their own deluded & grasping ambitions.

Now I know that many do this, the worlds of entertainment/sport particularly are noted for it & the end product often pleases (if you aren't married to one)

When Rawat says Fuck You to shri hans & good riddance to mataji , hires a town to host a party to which anyone who has ever been a premie is invited at his expense, & then announces his retirement, then I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Dream : Pat Dorrity

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:27:10 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Even if this were true
Message:
Even if this were true, that there was a satellite feed going out to the whole world, and it did cost as much as you say, why should that be the cost of the program?

Someone in the LA area just wanting to go and listen to a few hours talk and watch too many cheezy videos before it starts should have to pay $45 so that everyone else in the world can see it??? And won't it be taped and the tapes sold? Doesn't that at LEAST pay for itself if not raise more money? And what if it is just taped and shown over satellite later. This does not make any sense.

The U$$$$$A, cash cow for Nightmares International. What a hoot!

Francesca

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:12:32 (EDT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Some numbers
Message:
Dear Depressed and all,

Hi there. I just checked with one of the satellite experts and the base cost for broadcasting a pre-taped, one day event is $45-50,000 minimum. It costs significantly more than that if it's live or delayed and it also costs more to get it into certain regions of the world. This is one of the many costs of staging an event that no one here seemed to take into account.

Those are merely the base broadcast costs without paying all the people involved, who are working on a paid basis and have been doing so for years, Such's exploits to the contrary.

May not help your 'case,' but thought you might be interested, just the same. None of this would be happening if lots of people weren't getting a great deal out of it. Sorry that you aren't.

Best to all and now I'm off. By the way, I've never worked for EV but I've been involved with various productions for years and didn't want anyone making life-changing decisions based on false or woefully incomplete info. Fair enough?

call me Harry I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Suit.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 21:41:39 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Re: Some numbers
Message:
I just checked with one of the satellite experts and the base cost for broadcasting a pre-taped, one day event is $45-50,000 minimum. It costs significantly more than that if it's live or delayed and it also costs more to get it into certain regions of the world.
So it seems to me like Depressed said in his/her original post in the thread down below, if the revenues from the $45 registration fees amounts to $90,000, this baby should be paid for.

Why does EV feel they need another $90,000 'just to cover their costs'??

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 21:35:28 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Let's not hit and run, Harry. Tell us,
Message:
please tell us exactly WHO the satellite experts are, WHERE they work, WHAT they said, HOW they know that info, and WHY do you believe them?

You see, I used to show the videos at my house and I got all kinds of bullshit figures from EVERYONE!

Visions, EV, instructors, community contacts, rank and file premies etc.
I originally heard that it cost a bare minimum of $100,000.00 for a one hour time slot that m uses now for his broadcasts.
We now know it is far below that, far below...

So, once again, can you tell us EXACTLY how you got those numbers, and are they verifiable?

And WHY would it cost so much to show an hour or two of a pre-recorded video tape?
Are you saying that your number of $45-50,000 minimum applies to all of the other broadcasts as well?

Thanks, Harry

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 22:14:04 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Here's how JM answered you on 19/1/2000
Message:
[Subject: True costs versus Visions costs]

The satellite channel is almost free: maybe 50 $ per hour
What's expensive is the 'uplink', i.e. sending the feed to the satellite: shouldn't be more than 1,000 $ per hour.

I've got these figures from a satellite transmission expert.

Make your calculation.

Of course Visions/EV paid 100,000 or 200,000 to some other company, who's going to keep the difference and 'donate'' to the maha.

I hope IRS is going to go check this.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 15:37:38 (EDT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Here's how JM answered you on 19/1/2000
Message:
That's very interesting. I remember going to one satellite event in someone's house, and had to pay £15. There were four or five others there, and I was told that everyone had to pay that amount, no matter how many people turned up. That money went to EV I believe, and it felt wrong at the time to have to pay so much for a recorded video of M talking in his office. I felt distinctly cheated. I guess he's been figuring out the best way to make money without actually having to leave home, or at least not go too far...

What a terrible waste of money this is! What does he tell you that you can't get somewhere else, better explained and cheaper, except that he is the perfect master? Really, I am so glad I don't have to wrestle with all that stuff and try to understand what he's talking about...I am far more enlightened now and having a better time than I ever was when I was a premie, feeling like I was missing out because I never got within 200 yards of him...Think of all the great things that could be done for people with that money, things that could actually help and make a difference. It's like a lottery with always one winner - not fair! Not fun! Not funny!

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 22:25:58 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Getting true costs, plus Deep Dish..
Message:
Thanks Jim, I do remember JM saying something like that last year.

I'm sure they don't pay more than a few thousand an hour for that time slot.

I'm trying to find out from Dish HOW MUCH it would take to put something on the air like visions does...

Anyone know of Dish websites other than the ones for customers?
I'd like to get some specific numbers from someone in the business.
Also, it would be nice to get ev/visions statements regarding transmission costs...

BTW, DEEP DISH, is a free saatellite channel that links local cable access programming from all over the country, via it's own satellite channel.

That means that a video like LOTU, or any other ones made could be shown for free, all over the country.
To recieve it, you would either have to have the Dish 500 system (which Dish is offering to all regular customers as a free upgrade, I believe) OR, have your local public access channel pick up the Deep Dish channel, and broadcast it locally, via local cable...

Could possibly be used sometime...

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 21:43:38 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Yes, thanks, LAX
Message:
Didn't we look into this issue about a year ago when the satellite plague was just beginning? Yes, we did. Hm .... I'm going to comb through the archives a bit. But even if I can't find anything, I, too, have a problem with these figures.

This ain't over.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 22:00:08 (EDT)
From: lax
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Has EV ever explained costs exactly?
Message:
I'm wondering exactly how much it costs to put the satellite feeds out each week.

Has anyone ever researched this?

It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to get some real figures from the Dish network that it's broadcast on..

I've seen the broadcasts, and generally before and after, the time slots are open
---
no programming is on them.

That seems to tell me that the particular channel it is broadcast on is desparate for programming....and that it would be very reasonably priced, especially with a pckage deal of let's say 2 time slots/week, for a full year.

Also, I believe they are free now.
I believe they got enough commitments to pay for it for some time into the future.

Has Visions ever fully explained ANY of these figures to ANYONE publicly?

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:34:00 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Thanks for your demeanor
Message:
Harry,

I want to thank you for your demeanor, and I mean that sincerely. I personally am not here to argue with premies, because I don't think it does any good. This place is for exes and those who are thinking about being exes, or those who left years ago and want to get in touch with others who went through the same orientation.

If only most of the premies who dropped in were as non-confrontational as you are it would go a long way, since I don't think there's going to be any agreement on the main point -- association with Maharaji is not of any redeeming value.

bests, f

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:18:45 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: I did AV free at m. events +
Message:
lots of the av-audio staff have always been unpaid premie volunteers. the premie ushers + security + special needs + sales + backstage + transportation go-fers + service coordinators [except national tour director and EVI officials are also freebie volunteers]. hall setup/breakdown is configured into the package deal with the facility. + Visions Intl. has been charging EVI about $10,000/program for their 'expenses'. satellite up-link is probably additional.

$90,000 is a REal s-t-r-e-t-c-h! Caveat Emptor, folks!

Peace and lentils to all da exes, our poor premie bros and sistas, de aspirants, and their families,

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 15:45:12 (EDT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Re: I did AV free at m. events +
Message:
So basically Visions International is now the money-making tool of M and EV is basically the old, clapped out version, stumbling along with no real purpose except maybe to still attempt to get new aspirants interested. It all makes perfect sense - Visions is like a shark, gleaming teeth ready to pick clean the pockets of all faithful premies by doing the high-tec bit not many people know anything about, claiming huge expenses, and making money for M's new yacht. Whatever will he think up next?
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:13:14 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: lies, damned lies and EV spins
Message:
Harry: Maharaji does NOT get paid for speaking.

... except by donations solicited from the congregation to be paid directly to the Speaker. That's just showing gratitude and nothing to do with the speaking engagements at all. I understand that.

But Harry, does your Master get paid personal expenses? How much?

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:39:12 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Re: lies, damned lies and EV spins
Message:
Harry: Maharaji does NOT get paid for speaking.

... except by donations solicited from the congregation to be paid directly to the Speaker. That's just showing gratitude and nothing to do with the speaking engagements at all. I understand that.

I understand that too and also think that there's a whole lot of anonymous cash donations going on with donation boxes at the event (and even prior to the big event at local community events) by pwks who have been falsely led to believe that there's an urgent need to cover costs for an event, when in fact those costs have already been more than covered.
THAT surplus cash, anonymously donated and non-receipted can easily be diverted towards m personally, and IMO, people are dreaming if they think it isn't.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:09:53 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Harry the EV monitor
Message:
Always turns up when Rawat is seriously exposed...just to put the premies back in ' don't think ' mode....'never doubt the purity of the master ' mode..

What a pathetic fucking joke.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:07:29 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Hold on a mnute, Harry....
Message:
IF this event is LIVE, yes, there will be costs way above the figures mentioned....

IF it is not,(as MOST events are these days-they are taped by Michael Woods and the visions staff, and then simply put out on the satellite feed....in other words, not broadcast live..)
then the video expenses will be very minor....a couple of cameras and sound people, as usual...

Do you know if it is a LIVE feed, or a taped satellite event, like most of them are these days...?

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:06:23 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Re: Regarding Elan Vitals Claim and $45 a Head
Message:
Maharaji may not get paid for speaking, but his 'expenses' ARE covered by Elan Vital. Again, Elan Vital does not say what those 'expenses' entails, and like everything else, they present no proof for what they are saying. If everything is so legit as you say, why all the secrecy? Other 'non-profits' who aren't subject to the 'church' loophole do, and are required, to make that information avialable to the government and the public. Elan Vital does not do that.

Jim's point on secondary income is a good one. Maharaji charges (yes he CHARGES) for these events and then charges for the videos of the same event. He also charges for the satellite feeds of the same event, and requires that people who hold those 'events' in their homes 'charge' the people (per-head) for seeing them. You are suggesting that the premies who attend this event are also paying the investment cost of making the videos (cameramen, etc.) and then those same people will be paying to buy, rent, or whatever, the videos as a result. What a racket.

It's pretty weird for an organization to claim above-board costs, but then be completely unwilling to disclose the actual information.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:26:54 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: EVI padding + non-disclosures = rugu-holes!
Message:
padded expenses + revenues: destined for ____________________.

All Donors -- Beware! Caveat Emptor.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:56:50 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Are you calling me a liar?
Message:
Hey, Harry,

Call the hall yourself if you've got any question about the rental. You can reach Ann in the office at (805) 449-2700.

As for the production costs of the satellites, etc., what about the income from videos and the like? What about the secondary income, namely the continued general revenue from donations based on those same broadcasts? Ever heard of televangelism? Think that's non-profit too?

You know, you raise some fair issues. Maybe there ARE all sorts of costs we didn't think of. But, beside calling me a liar, would you be willing to help us all figure out these costs, to get a rough estimate if nothing else, so we can decide for ourselves about the money?

You know, the costs of programs wasn't one of the things you promised to keep secret along with how to listen to your breath, etc.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:40:31 (EDT)
From: please let us know ASAP
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: when there is a program anywhere. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:44:14 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: Re: Regarding Elan Vitals Claim and $45 a Head
Message:
Maybe the speaker charges a fee to EV.
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:35:05 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: Here are the figures!
Message:
I jut called the theater. Spoke to Ann in administration. She advised me that there are two halls, one seats 400 and the other 1800. I didn't ask about the smaller one (maybe a year or so down the road that'll be the one to ask about!) but here's what she said about the other. Ready?

The hall is costing EV $1,890 tonight. In addition, EV has to hire the hall's own security-trained ushers (who know about the right fire escapes, etc.) for a further $480.

I LOVE it!

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:20:29 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Breaking down the numbers.
Message:
I jut called the theater. Spoke to Ann in administration. She advised me that there are two halls, one seats 400 and the other 1800. I didn't ask about the smaller one (maybe a year or so down the road that'll be the one to ask about!) but here's what she said about the other. Ready?

The hall is costing EV $1,890 tonight. In addition, EV has to hire the hall's own security-trained ushers (who know about the right fire escapes, etc.) for a further $480.

I LOVE it!


---

I guess, by their own estimates and calculations, they are expecting just over a hundred premies to show up, which makes their figures correct.

Anth the vital statistic.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 03:54:08 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim you forgot something.
Message:
Hidden costs.

For instance in the Rejoice; programs in the 80s a private suite was hired in Birmingham(UK) so the 'The Speaker' could have a private smoking room.

Nothing to do with m's personal use of course, maharaji was taking everybodies bad karma.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:55:53 (EDT)
From: DepressedaboutMJ
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Here are the figures!
Message:
So that means that maybe they are expecting 1200 to 1500 people at the Thousand Oaks Event. 1200 people at $45 a head comes out to a take of $54,000 for Elan Vital. The cost for the facility Including Security that you called and verified, Joe, is $2,370.

Now if $54,000 (the expected take of 1200 people 'donating' $45 a piece) is a little more than 50% of the Cost of the event (as Elan Vital Stated), then that means Elan Vital is estimating the Cost of the Event to be approximately $100,000.

If you subtract the cost of the facility and Security Service which is $2,370 that leaves you with about $97,630 in other expenses for the 'COST of the Event'
What could these other expenses possibly be?..or are my figures still wrong??..Maybe they are expecting 500 People??...Seems Awfully low to Me...Still at 500 people paying $45 a head, Elan Vital Takes in about 9 times the Facility Cost!

Am I Missing something?? I would appreciate it if someone from Elan Vital would respond and clear this Up. It would be very helpful as I have been STUNNED by the Revelations about Maharaji from many people who know him personally...and I am trying Not to believe them. This doesnt Help....Thank You.....DepressedaboutMJ

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:01:48 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: May I quibble a bit?
Message:
So that means that maybe they are expecting 1200 to 1500 people at the Thousand Oaks Event.

Why do you say this? The hall admin people seem to think that there will be a full 1800 people there.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:07:53 (EDT)
From: DepressedaboutMJ
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: May I quibble a bit?
Message:
So that means that maybe they are expecting 1200 to 1500 people at the Thousand Oaks Event.

Why do you say this? The hall admin people seem to think that there will be a full 1800 people there.


---

Jim,

Im just trying to give Elan Vital Every benefit of the doubt. I am hoping they will have the Courage and Integrity to correct their Statement or Illuminate us on the other costs we are missing. I understand that this site is Monitored so I expect that Elan Vital will Know that this is a Real and Valid Question and Concern. ..DepressedaboutMJ

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:34:32 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: From the Elanvital.org website
Message:
Here is what the Elan Vital website says about tomorrow night's 'event' in Thousand Oaks, regarding the 'suggested fee' and the costs.

Contributions: The suggested seating reservation fee is $45.00. This fee is requested, but not mandatory. It covers a little more than 50% of the event costs. Additional contributions are needed and greatly appreciated. International Conference Management is accepting your registration fee and contribution on behalf of Elan Vital. The amount of your contribution will be included in the acknowledgment sent to the registrant at year end.

Since the cost to rent and secure the hall is less than $2,500, Elan Vital is apparently only expecting 28 people to show up for this 'event.' [28x45 = $1,260 (roughly half the $2,500 cost)]

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:09:25 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: Yes, they should respond any minute now
Message:
I've been sitting at this computer for years like the kid in A.I. waiting for the blue fairy to come alive. Years, my friend. Pull up a seat.
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:12:45 (EDT)
From: DepressedaboutMJ
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Just Pulled up My Chair..
Message:
Just pulled my Chair Up, Jim..;-)..by the way..I just found Ex-premie.org Last week..and im REELING...are you the famous Jim Heller?...you certainly are quick with a Post, Brother...
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:02:20 (EDT)
From: creativejani
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: Re: Just Pulled up My Chair..
Message:
I know how you feel, depressed - well, your name sort of gives a clue. But it's not a good feeling, realising the nasty truth behind the big lie. It took me about three weeks to come to terms with it, and the emmpty space where you thought your master was felt terrible. But then I found myself thinking about things for myself, and kind of growing up, which was great, and I also began to realise how much I'd shut down bits of my brain because I thought it was stuff M knew best. Ha! It's very healthy to rely on your own judgments and experiences, after years of thinking someone else has it all covered. I got tired of waiting for the peace on earth he promised a couple of years ago, and so I was not too badly hurt compared with others here. The shock will pass. obviously, and I hope you enjoy the feeling of freedom, you can think and believe what you want, get on with your life and enjoy yourself much better!

All the best on your new road to freedom! Have fun!!

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:50:40 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Fantastic, Jim. Well done
Message:
So, it's costing EV less than $2500 to rent the hall in Thousand Oaks, and yet they are chargin $45 for each attendee (sorry, just 'suggesting a donation' in that amount), and claiming that the $45 charge will only cover half the cost. What, are they gold-plating the back stage for Maharaji? Putting mink on the back-stage toilet seat for the divine Tush, what?

If EV claims that teh $45 only covers half the cost, then they expect only 28 people to show up for this things. Anyone can do the math.

Great, Jim. I think we should publicize this to premies.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:46:49 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: So let's do the math
Message:
Income: 1800 x $45 = $81,000

(Let's leave it at that. Forget about all the requested further donations. Let's just pretend that they only cover those in the 1800 member audience who get comped, sneak in, etc.)

Okay, anything else?

How about Visions Sales?
How about satellite and video sales from the program?
How about on-the-spot donations?

***********************

Expenses:

Hall -- $1,890
Ushers -- 480

Now what else is there that isn't covered by 'volunteers'? Hm ....

So it looks like EV has to lay out at least $2,370 for this event. Throw in some gas for m's car, etc. -- say we throw in a whopping further TWO THOUSAND bucks. That's $4,370.

From $81,000?

Leaves a bit of a profit, doesn't it?

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:56:06 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Face it,Jim,time to give up the day job...
Message:
Good work, once again, Mr. Heller.

Isn't it time you considered applying for a full time position with EV, or maybe Office of Maharaji.

With skills like that, you could GO somewhere in the cult,er non-membership organization, working for the lord, er, speaker...

It kind of reminds of some of those old Superman shows, where they capture the bad guy (some sort of evil genius) and always say something like:
If only that brilliant mind had been used for the good of mankind, rather than the other way...

I think if you ever reconsidered joining the cult, you could be promoted pretty quickly up to a seat close to the captain in the GV jet...I think he needs some one who thinks like you to be his 'devils advocate' so that he could look before he leaps, and avoid some of the shit he gets himself into...

Also, have you considered e-mailing EV asking for an explanation?

Good work, Sherlock...

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:01:39 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Naw, I'm too much of a wild-card
Message:
Thanks, la-ex, but I think it's Joe they want, not me. Joe, who rarely gets flustered. Joe, who's already served in cult middle management. Joe, who has already cultivated a working relationship with other EV dignitaries like David Smith. He's the one on the career path. I'm just fucking around. (Don't have court today, feeling a little under the weather, sitting around at home.)
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:11:48 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: maybe JW,with JH as special advisor' to Mr. Whalen
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:12:47 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: The Maharaji Lie about things being FREE
Message:
'Suggested Donation' is nothing more than saying that is the cost to get in. EV and Maharaji continue to lie that they don't charge for programs and yet that is nonsense. If something is free, you don't have a 'suggested donation.' What disengenuous bullshit.

The thing about Maharaji you have to understand is that he never discloses actual financial figures. I understand some years ago he did a stupid, insulting, presentation in which he presented all kinds of graphs and pie charts to the premies about the cost of this and that, and yet there were NO actual figures on them. This was a big drip for a lot of people. He must have really thought they were stupid.

I know from personal knowledge that in the past registration for festivals were set to make money. In Miami Beach, we used to get the Miami Beach Convention Center free in the Summer because nobody wanted to be in Miami Beach in July. We had to pay for the air conditioning, but we often charged $70 - $100, back in the 70s, for people to even get into the event. They made a lot of money on those festivals and they were held, partly, for that very purpose. To make money.

This, of course, did not even count the hundreds of thousands of dollars Maharaji personally collected when he gave darshan. I'm sure that's why he looked so bored and sullen when I went through the darshan line. He was sitting there thinking, 'shit, I wish this would get over so I can go count the money.'

The bottom line is, EV is disingenuous. They SAY the price is covering only half the costs of the event. But since they provide no backup for this, you have no way of knowing what 'costs' they are putting into it, or even if they aren't just lying. Transparency is the key to having confidence that you are being told the truth, and EV, Maharaji, Visions, etc., are, and always have been, about as transparent as mud.

If we had decent laws in this country that didn't exempt Churches (which Elan Vital is registered as) from financial reporting to the government, we would know more about the financial workings of Elan Vital.

What gets me is that millions, and millions, and millions have been raised by the sweat and hard work of premies over the years and given to Maharaji and his organizations. What does he have to show for it? He lives like the Sultan of Brunei, but his cult is just as small and insignificant as it always was, and in fact more so. I can only assume that most of the money has gone to make it possible for Maharaji to live the way he does. The $45, no doubt, will help Maharaji staff his $7 million yacht, or help get that helicopter pad he wants on the yacht. Those things are so important, you know.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:10:04 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Jim and Joe -- BAM!
Message:
Right on the money. Pun intended, of course! Good work the both of you. I would love a breakdown of the costs for this event! In my dreams, I guess. The other thing is, what is with this suggested donation? If anyone lives in the Thousand Oaks area, perhaps someone could go to the program and say they don't have any money to get in, and see what happens. Better yet, have a BUNCH of people try it.

love, Francesca

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:54:47 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: Joe
Subject: Re: The Maharaji Lie about things being FREE
Message:
Is Elan Vital registered as a church? That is information I REALLY need, if anyone knows! The e-mail my husband got claimed the $45 'suggested donation' would cover 'Less than 30% of the actual costs'. I re-read it several times, and it was 30%. Is nausea from this stuff a typical reaction?
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:31:26 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: Yes they are registered as a church with the IRS
Message:
Go to the website in the link. Put Elan Vital in the quick search. Click on Elan Vital. Bingo. You'll get the following info.

Elan Vital, Inc.
PO Box 6130
Malibu,CA 90264

Program / Activities
Information currently not available in database
Financial Info
Assets: $0
Income: $0
This organization is not required to file an annual return with the IRS because it is a church.

EIN: 23-7174539
Ruling Year: 1971

BY THE WAY -- I was given the guidestar website by the California Attorney General's Office. Show that to your hubby. They say they are not a religion and yet they are registered as a church. And if you read the most recent articles of incorporation on the Colorado Secretary of State's Office, you'll get a major laugh as to who they say they are. Those are not as easy to find, and takes knowing how to navigate the site.
[ http://www.guidestar.com ]

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:41:59 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Re: they are registered as a church with the IRS
Message:
Good grief. Thank you. I just checked it out. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I have heard that ''this is not a religion''. $0 income??? Crap!!! My husband just sent them a check to buy something! They sure as blazes do have income. Somebody should sell barf bags emblazoned with rawat's picture on them. I need one.
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 12:09:30 (EDT)
From: BeenThereDoneThat
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: Re: they are registered as a church with the IRS
Message:
Timmi,
Be patient with your husband. Debating with him won't help. It goes too deep. If one truly in their heart of hearts believes what they have been told and worse, experienced, then it's inconsequential. Maharaji is the perfect master, therefore it is only right that he should have any and all material manmade comforts from this manmade material world. If you really want to understand where your husband 'is at', then do as Maharaji says over and over, ask your questions. Finding the facts from independent sources such as the hall and Dish are really the only way to 'figure out the figures.' The US has historically supported EV events in other countries with less monetary resources, and EV has said that on occasion. This new company the donation money is being given to might be doing that. Has anyone found a listing for this company? Does giving the donation money to this company remove any and all liability for the event from EV? Most premies feel that whatever has to done been legally, whether registering as a church, etc, is just a necessary fact to allow videos and events to happen. They just want to practice knowledge and see Maharaji, either in person, on video or satellite. They have no idea what horrors were inflicted upon Abi and others, what suffering the asrhram premies underwent, where money is being wasted.
This is all very sensitive to someone, anyone, who has literally given their innermost self in trust, love and devotion to the perfect master. Hold your husband's hand. Don't argue with him. He's gonna need your patience and calm honesty. He'll have to come to his own conclusions. If you try to prove his faith in Maharaji and EV false, he'll try all the harder to defend them. Whatever the truth is, he'll have to see it. All anyone can do is present the real facts, then it is up to Maharaji to answer or not. Ev to answer or not. If you can, just love your husband with all the tenderness you can muster. He's lucky to have you.
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:59:25 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: I think 0 income is ...
Message:
... code, on that particular website, for the fact that EV is a church and doesn't need to report income to the IRS. I don't even think THEY'D be crazy enough to claim that. Just that since they're a church, they don't have to report.

hope that helps, bests, F

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:03:44 (EDT)
From: DepressedaboutMJ
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: Elan Vital Email said 50%. Whats Happening here?
Message:
Is Elan Vital registered as a church? That is information I REALLY need, if anyone knows! The e-mail my husband got claimed the $45 'suggested donation' would cover 'Less than 30% of the actual costs'. I re-read it several times, and it was 30%. Is nausea from this stuff a typical reaction?


---

I swear the E-mail I received from Elan Vital said 'a little over 50%' and yours said 30%???..whats happening here??? How are they getting these figures?

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:34:26 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: Here's from EV's website
Message:
Says:

"Contributions: The suggested seating reservation fee is $45.00. This fee is requested, but not mandatory. It covers a little more than 50% of the event costs. Additional contributions are needed and greatly appreciated. International Conference Management is accepting your registration fee and contribution on behalf of Elan Vital. The amount of your contribution will be included in the acknowledgment sent to the registrant at year end. "

Just noticed that the link might not work. The site may not allow deep linking. Hmmm... that's odd. I guess they want everyone to go through http://www.elanvital.org so they can see the flash intro of blissed out premies.

Francesca
[ http://events.elanvital.org/locations/northamerica/thousandoaks.htm ]

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:13:06 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: Re: Email said 50%. Whats Happening here?
Message:
''Contributions: The suggested seating reservation fee is $45.00.
This fee is requested, but not mandatory. It covers less than 30% of the event costs. Additional contributions are needed and greatly appreciated. International Conference Management is accepting your registration fee and contribution on behalf of Elan Vital. The amount of your contribution will be included in the acknowledgement sent to the registrant at year end.''
Copied and pasted directly from the e-mail my husband got from EV. Anybody know what is going on out there? Sounds like EV is going to make out big time in any case. Note to Depressed: E-mail me if you like. I was never a premie, but my husband is a devotee and I am having a struggle!
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:31:58 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Talking 'bout money
Message:
You notice how premies will turn their noses up if you mention M-EV-Money in the same breath. From the earliest days he has managed to make it a no-no subject. Like how low, material, in ya mind you must be to even waste a second ( or breath) thinking about such things.

But like you say Joe , I remember DUO and all the other bullshit projects ....funny how none of those trips ever generated money to do work in the world ( he promised it would be one of the greatest humanitariian organisations in the world).

His mission is ALWAYS short of money yet he and his family just get richer. But hey, what miserable, mean minded creatures we exes are....if we mention money then the cult says that's what we REALLY love.....they are'nt into the money aspect ...they are beyond all that.

and he gets richer and richer for trotting around spouting the same ole simplistic bullshit.

Ain't arf been some clever bastards...

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:41:06 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Re: Talking 'bout money
Message:
His mission is ALWAYS short of money yet he and his family just get richer.

This really is the bottom line. It's really simple, but premies refuse to see. Plus, the organization and Maharaji work hard to confuse the issue. And I agree with what you said about money being this lowly thing that shouldn't be discussed. In the same way, even having money is kind of guilt-inducing for premies. I mean, if you had $45, and if you gave it you wouldn't be starving, are you going to argue with EV that you shouldn't give the 'suggested donation,' or even more? Of course now. Arguing about money is just so, well, in your mind.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:20:41 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Talking
Message:
I am suprised at the ruckus over $45.
Whats the big deal? Poeple who are into attending the program don't have a problem supporting it with a donation. $45 will hardly buy you a decent shirt these days. And I have a couple $125 tickets for an upcoming concert and they certainly aren't the most expensive tickets available. Does everybody have to live like cheapskates. Heck, political fundraisers often have $1000 a plate dinners. Whats the big deal. EV uses the money to promote Maharajis message. If you like the message then support it. If not, then certainly don't attend the program and don't donate. People who don't donate can attend if they want to. Trying to build a case around the evils of a $45 suggested donation is petty.
San Diego is in the midst of heated debate over building the $300-$400M baseball stadium. Now those are $$$ figures worthy of talking!

CD

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:32:42 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Could CD have possibly missed the issue?
Message:
The issue is whether or not EV's telling the truth when they say that the $45 only covers less than 50% (or have they also said 30?) of the costs for the program. I mean, either that's a true statement or it's not. Do you understand now? Sorry, I know it's all a bit tricky.
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:30:27 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: The BIG Maharaji Lie about things being FREE
Message:
Hi Joe, I responded to one of your posts on LG as well.

Is there any way we can get maha to open the books?

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:34:20 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Deb, is there any way to make pigs fly? (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:02:43 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Buy them a Gulfstream jet of their own? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:43:17 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hahah timmi, 5 mins quicker than Jim NT
Message:
xx
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:57:11 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: Dermot
Subject: Re: Deb, is there any way to make pigs fly? (nt)
Message:
Sure, give him a $40,000,000 GS4 jet.
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:03:20 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: SHIT! How embarrasing! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:13:14 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: FA, could you please delete Timmi's joke?
Message:
I've been posting here a lot longer than she has AND I was a premie, she's only married to one. There's no need for both of our jokes to be up and, I think she'd agree, it's a good one. Please?
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:18:57 (EDT)
From: Tmmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: FA, could you please delete Timmi's joke?
Message:
Sorry, Jim, but thanks for the laugh! I needed it badly today. Great minds think alike, maybe? BTW, is the $40,000,000 figure accurate? I have heard everything from $25,000,000 to $40,000,000. Just want to be accurate if and when the subject comes up.
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:29:06 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Tmmi
Subject: What do you mean?
Message:
what's that figure(s) supposed to be for?
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:23:47 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: What do you mean?
Message:
what's that figure(s) supposed to be for?


---

The cost of the damn jet. Sorry to be confusing. Had a headache all day; must be getting to my brain.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:52:37 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: Cost of new GV
Message:
$45 million is the sticker price on a brand new Gulfstream GV. Link is above. M's is a few years old (pity the poor man) but certainly with every imaginable upgrade. Sounds like you may need more than the cost of a biz jet to discuss with your partner.
[ New GV ]
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:46:37 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: this; N54PR
Message:
Have you any idea what it's like to be married to a premie?

Let me put it like this Jim. Would you rather be one of your clients (of the doubtful kind) -- or be married to one?

I think you get my drift here :-)
[ N54PR ]

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:48:25 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: JohnT
Subject: Re: this; N54PR
Message:
John, Thank you for the link. Is that the plane, or in any case one like it? I lived in Wichita, KS for a long time and they make a lot of planes there. That looks like a bloody expensive plane to me.
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 18:15:20 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: the very one !
Message:
Yes,

it seems that's Rawat's plane alright, albeit owned through a holding company as is the custom. The picture was originally made available via Forum V and its veracity discussed. The 'PR' bit is a bit of a giveaway. Rather vain! I'd say.

I'd like a similar picture of THAT yacht, and a decent satellite picy of one of Rawat's estates as well.

As to its value, surely someone here knows where to look it up, at least a realistic estimate?

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:51:29 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: If I were married to a premie ....
Message:
Oh there were a few premies I loved over the years. Well, I ultimately ran off with one of them. Deborah? You out there somewhere?

If I were married to a premie today ..... if I were married to a premie today .... if I were married to a premie today .....

God, Timmi, I had no idea! I feel for you, girl.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 14:58:14 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The Cult 'Evolution' is very Dishonest
Message:
Someone over on Lifes Great, asked for a brief summary of why I have a problem with Maharaji. So, here's basically my personal viewpoint.

At age 19, I joined Maharaji's cult because he said, over and over and over, that through the spread of knowledge he was going to bring peace to a troubled world, and I could experience and realize God. He was going to end war. We were even going to feed the hungry and clothe the naked through DUO. I bought onto that because I believed he was telling the truth.

But, it was a complete baith and switch. Within a few years Maharaji changed the goal posts entirely from 'bring peace and love to the world' to 'devotion to Maharaji who is the living God.' We went through a very dark period from 1976-1983 in which we did nothing but worship Maharaji and do slave labor for things he wanted. Aspirants were almost nonexistent.

So, that went on for a few years, and then, when that didn't serve his purposes anymore, he dumped that too, at least outwardly, and did yet another bait and switch, claiming that he is just a meditation teacher, that he has no intention of saving the world, and that people should receive knowledge and join his watered-down Maharaji personality cult. He still has this pretense of wanted to get new converts, but operates below the radar of the press or any advertising, and just sort of hangs there asking for money to do the latest thing that's supposed to finally do it, in this case, the pathetic 'DVD knowledge.' The aspirants, outside of India, are almost nonexistent. Plus, he has many fewer followers than he had 20 years ago.

He has retained some of the verbiage and practices from the earlier phases, however. For example, he still talks about peace, but not god realization, and he talks about gratitude instead of devotion, and still has people line up by the thousands to kiss his feet. Bizarre.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 15:01:36 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: The Cult 'Evolution' is very Dishonest
Message:
Oh, yes, the only consistent thing through all those years and continuing to the present, is that Maharaji has gotten richer and richer, has better planes, now has a $7 million yacht and lives an even more lavish lifestyle than he lived in the past. That is the only thing that has remained constant in the Maharaji cult, that, and the hard and fast rule that Maharaji can do no wrong and cannot be judged, ever.
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 20:48:18 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: The Cult 'Evolution' is very Dishonest
Message:
Bingo! That is the only thing that is consistent. I was out of touch with the whole organization and was beside myself when I heard he had increased his wealth so substantially while decreasing his membership in equal proportion. someone do that math!!!
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 16:57:15 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: The Cult 'Evolution' is very Dishonest
Message:
Hi Joe,
Hmmm, I should pull one of my Joe posts from my collection
for you to give them also.

You mentioned that there were not a lot of aspirants at that time,
The aspirants that were around were put in quite a tight vise during that time. They had to recieve knowledge one day and move into the ashram at the same time. They had to be THAT clear.
Extreme pressure.
TWO girls that recieved knowledge in conn at that time, one in hartford and one in new haven, both reieved knowledge and moved into
the ashrams in thier city.
Both committed suicide.
They didnt know each other.
Being an aspirant at that time killed them.

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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 17:06:42 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Bill, is that really true?
Message:
Hi Joe,
Hmmm, I should pull one of my Joe posts from my collection
for you to give them also.

You mentioned that there were not a lot of aspirants at that time,
The aspirants that were around were put in quite a tight vise during that time. They had to recieve knowledge one day and move into the ashram at the same time. They had to be THAT clear.
Extreme pressure.
TWO girls that recieved knowledge in conn at that time, one in hartford and one in new haven, both reieved knowledge and moved into
the ashrams in thier city.
Both committed suicide.
They didnt know each other.
Being an aspirant at that time killed them.


---

Bill,

I'm amazed at this. Is this the first time you've told this story? If so, why? What are the details, Bill. Please. This is explosive. Please, the story.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:44:08 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Bill, is that really true?
Message:
Hi St. James,
Glad your back.
The girl from West Hartford, her name was Deborah Katz.
Her dad was a professor. She was about 21.
RT knows the girl from New Haven, She was about the same age.
Both were quite good looking also.
Debbie Katz father might be in the mood to find out about this site.
I'll try to see.
Cynthia knows also about this girl.
Ask her for details.
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