Ex-Premie Forum 6 Archive
From: Jul 14, 2001 To: Aug 02, 2001 Page: 2 of: 5


Been there Done that -:- Event donation company -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 05:57:04 (EDT)

la-ex -:- About those satellite costs...YOW! -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 00:44:03 (EDT)
__ Silvia -:- ELAN VITAL=MAHARAJI=ROBBERS -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:19:33 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- DITTO [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 21:55:32 (EDT)
__ DepressedaboutMJ -:- Good Premies...Gone Bad -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:01:46 (EDT)
__ __ Harry -:- Bad info, accepted without ? -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 22:24:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ la-ex -:- Harry, do you expect us to believe? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 16:37:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- That might be how things work in cults, Harry -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 23:32:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Hi Harry -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 23:31:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- Harry !!! -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 22:40:33 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Re: Good Premies...Gone Bad -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 22:11:28 (EDT)
__ janet -:- Re: About those satellite costs...YOW! -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 07:16:16 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Are you serious? -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 01:09:04 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Are you serious? -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 10:30:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Satellite dish v Cable -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 14:48:51 (EDT)

Deputy Dog -:- More fascinating drivel from the Dog -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 00:43:43 (EDT)
__ Bin Liner -:- Stress busting is for wimps, real men go for -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:47:02 (EDT)
__ __ Dermot -:- Bin -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 21:07:11 (EDT)
__ Francesca -:- Mindfulness training -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 12:17:36 (EDT)
__ __ Bob -:- Re: Or espresso! -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 21:51:20 (EDT)
__ janet -:- ok, I'll drink more green tea. [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 07:19:22 (EDT)
__ __ Deputy Dog -:- Hey Janet, 1 out of 3 ain't bad! [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 10:29:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ janet -:- Re: Hey Janet, 1 out of 3 ain't bad! -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:56:51 (EDT)

Barry -:- Nice format! O.T -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:08:37 (EDT)
__ Barry -:- I'm such a bonehead! -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:34:59 (EDT)
__ __ salam -:- duh! -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 05:47:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ Barry -:- Fuck u 2 Salami head! -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 16:53:31 (EDT)

Joe -:- Re David Andersen who is having a nice experience -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:37:39 (EDT)
__ Passing Through -:- PT's experience -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 18:33:38 (EDT)
__ __ bill -:- Re: PT's experience -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 22:25:31 (EDT)

Jim -:- Susan Blackmore on why Nigel -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 20:51:32 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Hey, that post was psychic! -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:25:41 (EDT)
__ __ Nigel -:- '...on why Nigel' what...? -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 12:26:33 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- You Junky! -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:53:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Its, not me, Barry. It's a different Jim -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 01:06:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hmmmmmmmmmm..Jim?......n/t -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 10:11:29 (EDT)

hamzen -:- Jagdeo on tour again? -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:20:54 (EDT)
__ Abi -:- Who told you? -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:34:48 (EDT)
__ __ hamzen -:- Aren't they full of shit -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 06:54:20 (EDT)
__ __ CW -:- Sud africa......... -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:52:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ Abi -:- an easy solution... -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 13:21:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Cw -:- Re: an easy solution... -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 23:37:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ janet -:- Re: Sud africa......... -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:11:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- How funny you are, Cat -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 00:32:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Re: How funny you are, Cat -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 04:25:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- A bitch, eh, cat ! -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:05:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Soprano Catweasel -:- Funiculi Funicula!! -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 10:53:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- pea brain damaged by guru -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:26:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- At least I have a Brain! -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 23:30:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- ... just don't know how to use it ! -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 08:57:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Your master -:- is vicareously -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 07:58:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Yea and -:- Eva Braun is 'vicareously' -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 10:50:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- And Foghorn Leghorn is a Chicken hawk! -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 11:04:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Madamoiselle Gassielles -:- Good Cat -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 06:19:23 (EDT)

Nigel -:- Moley's full of sherbet lemons (ot) -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:07:42 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Re: Moley's full of sherbet lemons (ot) -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:59:25 (EDT)
__ Francesca :C) -:- Frankly I'm sick of Maha (ot) -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:22:02 (EDT)
__ __ Selene -:- Re: Frankly I'm sick of Maha (ot) -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:46:37 (EDT)

Joe -:- Say Something Positive About Maharaji Contest -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:58:04 (EDT)
__ Silvia -:- he never asked me for sex -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:29:02 (EDT)
__ __ Does that mean -:- that he -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:31:11 (EDT)
__ David Smith -:- He used to humliate me... -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 18:04:19 (EDT)
__ __ Bob -:- Re: He used to humliate me... -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 20:19:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ bill -:- Thanks for your best of forum post Bob [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 22:35:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- PS Bob ..cut & paste your post on LG? :)nt -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 21:29:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ Bob -:- Re: He used to humliate me... -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 21:17:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Above post Dermot, not Bob..duhh NT -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 21:20:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Hi Bob, keep posting , every remeniscence helps [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 20:34:03 (EDT)
__ janet -:- Re: Say Something Positive About Maharaji Contest -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:24:52 (EDT)
__ __ michael donner -:- Re: Say Something Positive About Maharaji Contest -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:38:47 (EDT)
__ Two Feet -:- In Praise of Maharaji -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 06:34:06 (EDT)
__ Jethro -:- Maharaji once almost -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 03:25:26 (EDT)
__ Prostrate Gland -:- His feet never smelled like tunafish in darshan -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:28:54 (EDT)
__ __ Vehicular Manslaughter -:- And, he has the best sawed in half car in Malibu -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:33:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ Humble Pie -:- No one can accuse him of false modesty (nt) -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:47:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Elizabeth Clear Profit -:- Best New Age Revisionist (nt) -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:59:23 (EDT)
__ suchabanana -:- that's So special! [nt] -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:14:01 (EDT)
__ Timmi -:- Re: Say Something Positive About Maharaji Contest -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 20:47:58 (EDT)
__ Ian Dury -:- He doesn't sweat much for a fat guy (nt) -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:49:13 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Now Holi was totally cool -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:43:18 (EDT)
__ __ Disculta -:- Have you heard of 'Paint-ball?' -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:21:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Re: Have you heard of 'Paint-ball?' -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:31:18 (EDT)
__ Dermot -:- 'YES maharaji YES ' ,,,howzat? nt -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:35:46 (EDT)
__ hamzen -:- Couple of things you missed Joe -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:06:47 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- No. 4's a little off -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:21:19 (EDT)
__ __ Joe -:- Yeah, but he was underage at the time -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:28:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ janet -:- well if karma is tit for tat -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:35:49 (EDT)
__ Dermot -:- Lol nt -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:16:32 (EDT)
__ Nigel -:- He never asked me to sleep with him..(nt) -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:12:51 (EDT)

Jim -:- Do the premies lose the challenge by default? -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:22:03 (EDT)
__ Passing Through -:- Am I too late for the challenge? -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 18:41:29 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- No, you're not too late (yawn ..) -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 21:25:16 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- STOP THE PRESS! Premies, will this guy do? -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 20:57:12 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- STOP THE PRESS! I'm peeing my pants [nt] -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:09:30 (EDT)
__ __ Dermot -:- Hilarious ! nt -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:05:57 (EDT)

Bob -:- computer is fixed!! -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 15:03:14 (EDT)
__ Dermot -:- Yo Bob...dont get addicted, now ! -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:17:55 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- New interesting document on EPO -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 04:46:47 (EDT)
__ ham -:- Spot on as usual j-m, good man -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 18:21:58 (EDT)

Passing Through -:- Don't go to Thousand Oaks -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 00:54:35 (EDT)
__ bill -:- Only because I didnt know till this week. [nt] -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:32:52 (EDT)
__ Pauline Premie -:- Did Somebody Actually COUNT the Oaks? -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 14:29:28 (EDT)
__ __ janet -:- they had to count them all -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:53:58 (EDT)
__ __ Dickie Pwickie -:- They counted the attendees and renamed it .... -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 14:39:47 (EDT)
__ Joey -:- Re: Don't go to Thousand Oaks -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 14:27:12 (EDT)
__ __ Passing Through -:- Thousand Oaks? -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 18:04:19 (EDT)

Jim -:- A premie love song -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 22:23:16 (EDT)
__ Barry -:- Soon to be an X-flies smash! -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:00:36 (EDT)
__ hamzen -:- Not bad at all Jim -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:18:41 (EDT)
__ __ Silvia/sb -:- OT -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 23:20:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- For the record, Silvia -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 00:36:28 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- David Andersen -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:06:54 (EDT)
__ __ Francesca :C) -:- He sang a KILLER version of ... -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:45:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- CAN premies sing gospel?? -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:13:01 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Really? -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:33:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Well, I'm sure I did..but -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:36:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Ha yeah,the first few thousand times ! nt -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:27:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Here's the rest -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:50:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- Re: Here's the rest -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:48:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Question re the words -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:42:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- The heart and Danny Boy (ot) -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:38:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Webvan -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:59:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Dude, I can't figure out ... (ot) -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 13:40:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ Mr. Mind -:- Re: Really?/Yes -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:47:59 (EDT)
__ Tonette -:- Re: A premie love song -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 22:51:43 (EDT)
__ __ JohnT -:- I liked it! -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 05:02:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Yes -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:36:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: I liked it, too! -:- Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 15:49:27 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Really? -:- Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 23:01:12 (EDT)


Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 05:57:04 (EDT)
From: Been there Done that
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Event donation company
Message:
Has anyone found out who the company is the $45 went to for Thousand Oaks? Does any legal beagle type know if this exonerates (sp) EV should the event be canceled or any other problem arises for liability?
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 00:44:03 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: All
Subject: About those satellite costs...YOW!
Message:
Now let's see....about those hard costs for a satellite transmission.....

Thousand Oaks costs about $2000 for the hall rental....
The visions staff probably has 2-3 cameras set up for a discourse of about one hour.
Their equipment is probably paid for, the 'help' is quite 'reasonable'.
Tapes might cost about $50-100 or so.

The editing equipment is probably paid for, or can be done for free by 'volunteer' labor on a decent home computer with an editing program.
(There is very little editing to do when the speaker speaks for an hour by himself.)

The finished video is submitted to be broadcast via Dish Network, which costs betwee $500-$1200/hr. to broadcast.

Even if you paid the visions staff for a half day of shooting and a few hours of editing, the costs would not be more than a couple of thousand bucks.

So we have costs of about $5,000 so far.
(Not sure about the sound system at the hall)

When the videos first started, premies were charged $20/head.
One time maharaji taped a show from his living room, which was quite embarrassing.(I think that one was $30)

The first few videos had about 8,000 viewers in the western hemisphere.
I was told by visions that about 75% of the viewers contributed.
Some 'big donors' gave far more than the $20, to bring the total up to what it would have been if all 8,000 had contributed.

So we've got 8,000 x 20.00 = $160,000 taken in for each showing.
Some days there were 2 showings for $35.00.

Every month approx. $640,000-$800,000 taken in from viewers.
And what were the expenses to do all of this that were so much different than having Michael Woods & Co. do what they always do at every program?(just video m and a few establishing shots of the venue)

Sheesh!

How much did they take in before they made if free?

And exactly what does it take NOW to do these broadcasts?
If the videos are done the same way they are always done, the only extra cost is the $500-$1200 per transmission.
For 2 transmission/week, this comes to $52,000/year-$124,800/yr.
(I am quite sure it is much closer to the lower number)

If an average might be $80-90,000/year for the satellite transmission, how much is visions taking in to finance it?
How much EXTRA are they taking in, if any, to cover the operation?

There was a big push to get all the premies to put a minimum of $50/month on their credit card, but people were pressured to do $75, or preferably $100/month.

Now, if premies give only $50/month, that's $600/year.

$600 x 1,000 premies = $600,000

$600 x 2,000 premies = $1,200,000

$600 x 3,000 premies = $1,800,000

$600 x 4,000 premies =$2,400,000

$600 x 5,000 premies =$3,000,000

$600 x 6,000 premies =$3,600,000

$600 x 7,000 premies =$4,200,000

$600 x 8,000 premies =$4,800,000

Subract about $100,000/year for the ADDITIONAL expenses incurred by satellite transmissions beyond what is normally done.

WOW!

Originally, premies were told that the satellite transmissions cost $100,000/hour!

Has EV or Visions ever released figures explaining ANY of this?

Anyone have anything else to add about these figures?

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:19:33 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: ELAN VITAL=MAHARAJI=ROBBERS
Message:
We do have the right to be angry, don't we?

What a son of a bitch!

MAHARAJI YOU ARE SIMPLY A HORRIBLE, DISGUSTING PERSON! Your days as 'GOD' are counted, you, evil ass.

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 21:55:32 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: DITTO [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:01:46 (EDT)
From: DepressedaboutMJ
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Good Premies...Gone Bad
Message:
thanks, La-Ex, for breaking down the costs on the Thousand Oaks program, And ..the Satellite Feeds. It is NOT about the money ($45 is not much) but about the lie and/or Misinformation that Maharaji's organization spreads.

It is apparent from your detailed analysis that the People at Elan Vital are NOT telling the Truth about the costs of their Events and Satellite Feeds.

I Know there are good and sincere People who work at Elan Vital Don't they know that by misrepresenting the facts they are playing into the hands of those who claim that Maharaji is just in it for the Money.

I dont claim to know Maharaji Motivations...I am, for the time being, trying to find out whats REALLY been going on...and Depressed about what I've found out. .But this does NOT reflect well on Maharaji. It would be better if they just requested a minimum $45 donation and stated that this goes to put on the Program..AND..Support Maharaji's other works..then leave it to those who wish to ask....what those OTHER works are..

Those of you who work at EV should Ask your 'superiors' about this...and see if you can change it...with Maharaji's credibility on the line these days...it becomes VITALLY important that Elan Vital tells the truth (small t) in whatever it does...If you are working for Elan Vital..I would think it would be your highest duty to Maharaji to try to get this fixed...and get Elan Vital telling the truth to its supporters.

(by the way CD are you still working down in Sorrento Valley?..still living with your English Girlfriend?..) DepressedaboutMJ..

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 22:24:12 (EDT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: Bad info, accepted without ?
Message:
Dear Depressed,

Hi there. I tried to answer your earlier question down below with real numbers but you appear not to have read it or taken it seriously.

LA-Ex's figures don't come within galaxies of approximating reality on what it costs to put on an event or broadcast one by satellite. He/she obviously doesn't have a clue what the costs actually are and is involved in random speculation.

So here, for the second and last time, as there are WAYYYY more productive, fun and pleasant ways of spending my time, are the minimum figures in the real world for just the satellite part of an event. $45-50,000 for a one day, pre-taped satellite broadcast, more if it's live or tape-delayed and more to get it to certain parts of the world, when relevant. That goes for every satellite broadcast, even if it was taped 15 years ago.

This figure comes directly from one of the people that sets up and negotiates the time, not only for Maharaji but for other broadcasts as well. The idea that Dish network time equals the cost of broadcasting only shows the lack of familiarity with this arena of the person who wrote it. A satellite broadcast involves many companies, countries, contracts, links, feeds, equipment and tech people.

So, as with quite a few other tidbits that are repeated as if gospel on this page, what you are reading is flat-out not true. I also mentioned below some other costs that weren't calculated in, such as the cost of paying the many people involved in making these happen, which adds up.

The 'detailed analysis' you referred to is laughable, though the person writing it probably believes it due to lack of experience or info.

If you want to believe otherwise, fine. I'd imagine that to someone to whom Maharaji makes no sense, $1.50 would be too much to pay to hear him.

If you really are trying to find out the answer to that question, there it is. if you want to ignore it and gnaw on doubt, that's your option and you'll probably stay depressed about MJ.

It's not a state that I'd recommend. If it matters to you, the actual event was extremely satisfying, inspiring, high and real. And those people that worked hard to help make it happen, including the guy who'll negotiate and pay that $50,000, are glad to have been a part of it, regardless what people sitting way off on the side, throwing tomatoes, may think at a distance.

Still hoping you're able to shed your depression, these are my last words on the subject. There's nothing to debate about it, that's what it costs on THIS planet. What's really going on isn't depressing at all, though reading this site may be.

Good luck, Harry

P.S. Hi to you too, Francesca. If you're who I think you are, you have a lovely voice. If not, thanks for the civility anyway.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 16:37:05 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Harry, do you expect us to believe?
Message:
that EACH satellite event costs a minimum of $50,000 to put up on the Dish satellite?

If m does 100 programs/year, that means it costs a minimum of 5 million dollars?
I find that very hard to believe.
And if it is true, they should seriously find a better way to do this, because that's not very cost efficient....

Now, here's a deal I'd like to make with you, Harry....

Can you get an exact cost accounting from visions or ev on how much these satellite transmissions actually cost?
Will they do that for you?
If they will (as any responsible non profit should, for their contributors), then we can end this debate right now.

You say it costs any group $50,000 minimum just to put a one hour show on the Dish....that's what you're saying, right?
And that's before other costs are counted in, like staff salaries, overhead etc.

I say it takes about $100,000/year to lease 2 one hour blocks/week for broadcast to the US.
Are you saying it costs $5 million, minimum?

Let's wager, Harry.
If it's closer to my figure, you donate $100 to EPO.
If it's closer to your figure, I'll donate $100 to ev or visions. (but not to m personally....that would be cruel and unusual punishment)

C'mon Harry, get on the word and in the heart and let's have some fun with this one...lighten up, pal!

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 23:32:59 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: That might be how things work in cults, Harry
Message:
but not in the real world. For one thing, in the real world asking these kinds of questions about costs and the like is okay. No big deal. EV raised the matter of costs to begin with, didn't they? Fine, then let's talk costs. Furthermore, in the real world, people saying whatever you're saying would offer some proof and, if not proof itself, at least some lead so we could figure it all out ofr ourselves. You haven't done that. Indeed, your own credibility isn't even on the line. You're just some anonymous 'Harry'. That ain't shit in the real world, 'Harry'.

Finally, I DO think you're lying. Yeah, that's right, lying. I talked to the DISH guy myself and that's what he told me. I explained to him that I was interested in the cost of renting satellite time for broadcasts nation-wide and that was the range he ballparked. So unless you can step forward with something better, your argument's worthless to me. Give us some names or something, some way we can verify all these massive hidden expenses we're ignorant of. Do that or fuck off.

Last, I just have to say, even if we're wrong, no one said we were perfect. No one said our information or even analysis was perfect. This site doesn't lost an iota of credibility if you're right and we're not. It's just the function of trying to get the facts. You know, those things you're afraid to really turn us onto?

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 23:31:04 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Hi Harry
Message:
Dear Harry,

Yes I used to sing, still sometimes do. Glad it brought you some pleasure, and I'd always rather be civil. I have relatives and one close friend that are still premies, and we agree to disagree on some stuff. I lived in the LA community from about 1974 to 1980.

It was understood by many of us, whether it was up front or not, that the US was one of the major supporters of programs worldwide. I have no idea how people are treated at the door if they don't have money, since it's been at least 8 years or more since I've been to a program, and I was always one of the ones willing to pay.

bests, F

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 22:40:33 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Harry !!!
Message:
Man ...have ya heard yourself?

It's like you tiptoe in here ,holding your nose , tugging on DepressedaboutMaharajis sleeve, hand over mouth....not really wanting to engage us Impure mindfucks.....then sneaking out again.

Er excuse me holy one.....it's a PUBLIC forum.....I know it all seems beneath you but there it goes!

While you were in here , holding your nose....did you read Bobs post. There was Bob sincerely serving his master (with LOVE, it seems to me) and what does he find? Well he doesn't find the 'stage persona' Maharaji , that's for sure.

Anyway, if you come to a public forum , expect to be engaged. All you anonymous pams or is monitors ( nope, ok I take your word on that) or whatever it is ......you premies and EV lot are so phantom-like, so NOT upfront and then you have the BRASS NECK to say WE are depressing! Your cult behaviour bro .....is plain WEIRD.

Dermot

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 22:11:28 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: DepressedaboutMJ
Subject: Re: Good Premies...Gone Bad
Message:
Hi DepressedLessEveryDay,

I know it's difficult to digest but I just have to say something, but I promise not to dwell because i sympathize with you.

Going to see the RAWAT's @ Thousand Oaks is no different than going to see the RUBENSTEINS in NewYork. WHAT????

It doesn't make a difference.

THe techniques are just a Hindu Parlour Trick, Maha has nothing to do with people receiving meditation techniques. In India, the relevance of kings, masters, darshan, etc. is extremely common. As common as the Catholics having reverence for the priests, Cardinals, Bishops, and ultimately the Pope. No difference.

This was a family business. Maha just needs to put his techniques on the web site. Nobody needs to serve the RAWAT's. Their just some family in Malibu.

If Maha told the premies to visit the RUBENSTEINS instead of him because he's retiring. Would premies do it? NO. Of course not. Why? Because they are just a normal Jewish family. Who needs to adore them and provide them with luxuries because they want to tell you. Nobody needs them.

Premies are convinced they need Maha. And his family reaps the benefit.

They wouldn't cough up MILLIONS a year so The RUBENSTEINS could travel and tell people something a webpage could instruct.

It's sickening. Very sickening.

The only place MAHA needs to go is HELL

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 07:16:16 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Re: About those satellite costs...YOW!
Message:
when i first looked into getting a satelling from dishnet to try and get the broadcasts at home, i found that a dish would cost me 100 at sears in their clearance dept, and minimal programming by the network would run at bare minimum 5 buck a month to keep it turned on only for the purpose of receiving the broadcasts of maharaji and nothing else.,
Visions told me they could allow me a subsidized feed if i was so broke i couldnt afford the requested 40 bucks a broadcast by scheduled date. but they asked if i couldnt pay something, even a 5 or ten dollar committment?
i waited.

now, dishnet has changed their deals. you get the dish and box for free, and sign up for basic yearly programming at 30 bucks a month, and visions has gone to free broadcasts. you get the top 100 channels and the dish is mobile: you can take it in your car and set it up in any location--hotel room, campground, your parent's guestroom, your college dorm room --anyplace you could set up a tv and point the dish at the right place in the sky.

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 01:09:04 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Are you serious?
Message:
Originally, premies were told that the satellite transmissions cost $100,000/hour!

You have this documented? This could prove interesting.

I'm not saying we're in Jim Baker territory yet. Buuut .....

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 10:30:39 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Are you serious?
Message:
It is Jim Baker territory already! That's one of the reasons I left (among many others).

Do they still have a per viewing charge? I don't know, but in 1998-99 a viewing was at least $25 bucks, depending upon where you watched (in a hired hall or at someone's home).

It's very expensive to watch and I got particularly disgruntled back then when I was paying so much to watch a taped version. I think they might have done away with the live feeds because m fucks up and says stuff that EV/M don't want the whole world to hear and see.

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 14:48:51 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Satellite dish v Cable
Message:
If you have a satellite dish and can get Dish Networks programming, the broacasts are now free. I think the last mailing I got from EV before I told them to take me off their mailing list was a plea for contributions so that the free broadcasts could be supported.

The big news that was posted recently is that in cities like NY many don't have the ability to have a satellite dish. So EV supposedly broadcast the Maha on a cable channel in NY city. (My premie friend in Brooklyn Heights and my relatives in NJ have 'the dish'.)

Of course you know, Cynthia, that 'the dish' we have here is the supreme dish. And your stories have always helped create that picture. Did you write a Journey yet (I SHOULD talk). At least your reporting of the DECCA days and your close contact with the many moods of Maha would be (ahem) instructive.

bests, F

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 00:43:43 (EDT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: All
Subject: More fascinating drivel from the Dog
Message:
Fight Stress with Meditation

Meditating seems to improve physical and mental well-being in people under a lot of stress, as shown in a study conducted at West Virginia University. The investigators identified 62 people from the local community who were experiencing abnormally high levels of stress and divided them into an intervention group and a comparison group.

The 35 people in the intervention group underwent 'mindfulness training,' in which they learned to discern a tense from a relaxed body and how mental and emotional states influence physical health and vice-versa. The 27 comparison subjects received educational materials and information on community resources, but no special training on meditation.

Psychological distress decreased by 54 percent in the intervention group 3 months after they started the program. Medical symptoms diminished by 46 percent. The comparison group experienced no significant changes in mental or physical well-being.

Mindfulness training enhances a person's insight into distressing life situations, says Dr. Kimberly Williams, the lead researcher. It teaches them to respond to stressful occurrences in a healthier way.

***************************************

To Forgive, Divine

Do you find it hard to forgive people who have wronged you? Nursing that grudge may be harmful to your health. According to research, forgiveness may have positive health effects. In a study, people who forgave their offenders felt more control over the situation and experienced less physiological stress than people who assumed an unforgiving stance toward their offenders.

***************************************

Green in the Middle

It appears the benefits of drinking green tea never cease. A new study suggests that green tea may help prevent stomach cancer. According to research, people who regularly drink green tea have about half as much risk of developing stomach cancer as people who do not drink green tea. Researchers believe it may be the powerful antioxidants found in green tea that makes it such a potent disease fighter.

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:47:02 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Stress busting is for wimps, real men go for
Message:
the light of samadhi brighter than a thousand suns which burns away the ego & leaves you in a state of permanent bliss.

The best thing you can do with people who have wronged you is shoot them. If this is impracticable the 2nd best thing is to forget about them.

Whiskey is an underrated benefit to the human race especially when combined with smoking cigarettes, as in combination they reduce the likelyhood of having to spend years slowly dying in an old folks home being tortured by pissed off low wage moron juveniles.

I recommend Highland Park as its ferocious strength can occasionally mimic the more 'natural' but unfortunately elusive experience of satchitanand.

ps. I drink lots of tea too, got to keep a balance.

Cheers:Pat Dorrity

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 21:07:11 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Bin
Message:
Long live your liver, Pat :}
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 12:17:36 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Mindfulness training
Message:
Thanks Dog, for the morning news! I do drink green tea, just because it has less caffeine and tastes good (from quality leaves in a tea ball, not from tea bags).

Just to set the record straight, the blurb about mindfulness training really sells ALL forms of mindfulness training short by almost implying that that's all there is to it:

The 35 people in the intervention group underwent 'mindfulness training,' in which they learned to discern a tense from a relaxed body and how mental and emotional states influence physical health and vice-versa.

Just for the record, that is this one particular researcher's version of mindfulness training. Mindfulness techniques have existed in Therevadan Buddhism and other forms of Buddhism for centuries. They have been adapted with a lot of success by Western pain and stress reduction clinics (such as the world-renowed one at the University of Massachusetts set up by John Kabat-Zinn).

There are form of mindfulness trainings that are for those on the spiritual path. My personal bias is that I consider the mindfulness trainings as taught by Spirit Rock (Insight Meditation Society), Thich Nath Hanh, and the forms that are taught in Tibetan Buddhism, WAY superior to anything I learned from Maharaji. But different techniques for different folks.

However, when mindfulness techniques are used purely for mind-body applications, as in the material you quoted, there is a lot of benefit.

:C) Francesca

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 21:51:20 (EDT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Re: Or espresso!
Message:
Espresso and other REAL coffee contains precious cafeine, which perks you up, prevents parkinson and several horrible cancers!!
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 07:19:22 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: ok, I'll drink more green tea. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 10:29:41 (EDT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Hey Janet, 1 out of 3 ain't bad! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:56:51 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Re: Hey Janet, 1 out of 3 ain't bad!
Message:
oh, hey-- i already was DOING the other two.
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:08:37 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Nice format! O.T
Message:
Hi to all who remember me from a while back. I just wanted to say that the new forum format is really great. Who-ever did the work, well you aint no jerk! excellent job. I'm going to read a bit now and check out more of whats been going on etc...adios X-Zombo's!
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:34:59 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: I'm such a bonehead!
Message:
Sorry everybody-didn't realise there's a new forum for Anything goes!
I'll be hangen out there if anyone wants to talk. I guess I should read before posting..oh well.
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 05:47:59 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: duh!
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 16:53:31 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Fuck u 2 Salami head!
Message:
Ya thats right!
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:37:39 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Re David Andersen who is having a nice experience
Message:
I posted this to Dermot on Lifes Great, but I thought I would bring it over here to try to get to the nub of the problem ex-premies have with Maharaji, when you boil it all down.

I grew up Catholic and so I was also primed for the devotion/faith phenomenon. But I think the thing with David Andersen and a lot of premies is this: I don't deny that they may be having a great experience that is often satisfying and fulfilling to them. I think if you believe in something and practice it, you can have satisfying and fulfilling experiences, and if you have never had them before, they can seem extraordinary and wonderful. I remember having those experiences as a premie, and I still have them when I am no longer a premie.

What I have seen in my own life is that when you do 'believe,' things do happen that didn't happen before. It doesn't quite matter, really, what you believe in, as long as you think it can be fulfilling for you, espeically if you think it might be the ultimate love, or experience.

And as a premie, I really wanted it to be true, and I really believed in it. And I think that has happened to a lot of people in the Maharaji cult. They have experiences that are very satisfying and fulfilling to them and they really believe Maharaji is the source of it, when it really is coming from their own beliefs, inside themselves, which can be very powerful. The cult and Maharaji might reinforce the beliefs, but they have nothing to do with the good and fulfilling experiences these people are having.

The thing that I object to is the way Maharaji teaches to attribute whatever experience they have to Maharaji himself. This is actually where premies are actually being taken advantage of, in my opinion. In the 70s and 80s Maharaji was blatant in taking this advantage. He openly preached about devotion and surrender and that everything, every positive experience, was due to his grace. Now, he is more subtle about it, but he still basically preaches the same thing.

But see, he has nothing to do with the experience those people are having. I know that's hard to accept, but it's true. It was hard for me to accept, too. But what I found out is that he really has nothing to do with it, it was all coming from me.

The other thing that's important about Maharaji's personal behavior, was that he was preaching one kind of life, and living the complete opposite himself. That's hypocritical and wrong, especially when he worked so god-damned hard, to the point of 'x-rating' the people who might see his offensive behavior, to keep it from the premies and the aspirants. He didn't want this behavior to diminish the really good theatrical show Maharaji was so good at putting on at programs, and that's despicable. I didn't find out about Maharaji's sexual and drug-taking and other transgressions until well after I left the cult, but when I did, it just reinforced how glad I was to be out.

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 18:33:38 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: PT's experience
Message:
Two points-
One, I like what I experience when I am sitting down practicing the techniques.
And I have observed that practicing has a long lasting and cumulative effect, the more I practice the more I enjoy.
This is the general experience of people with Knowledge and that is why tens of thousands of people continue to practice K.
Two- Apart from a few off hand comments, M's only attempt at 'preaching one kind of life' was the ashram.
The requirements of no smoking, no sex, no drugs, no alchohol and vegetarian diet were proscribed to provide a harmonious environment when complete strangers are living in close confines.
Can you think of any else?
PT
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 22:25:31 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: Re: PT's experience
Message:
Hi PT,
Nice of you to put it like that.
I can think of something else that sure had an effect on me.
The fact that he continued to say that he was master of life, and in other videos and speeches he alluded quite clearly that he was/is
the authority and THE one that defines reality and speaks for the
truth, or reality, limited me.
How it limited me could be and has been said better by others, but I'll try to say it, jeeze PT, I dont know if I can say it tonight,
well, his limitations became my limitations.
Since he was/is the definer of reality, I was stuck by his limitations.
Maybe Joe can chime in at this point. Or others.
I could not grow beyond him.
I could not look at reality as it is.
He was defineing it and claiming that he should define it for me because of his status as master of life.
That is a huge issue for any premie.
THE issue I guess.

Beyond all his personal foibles even.
There are never graduating classes.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 20:51:32 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Susan Blackmore on why Nigel
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:25:41 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey, that post was psychic!
Message:
I didn't mean to post that. But here's the article I thought was interesting, anyway. It's not about memes. Here's the intro:

Parapsychologists seem to assume that psychic phenomena -- if they exist -- would prove the 'power of consciousness.' Yet this may be no more than trying to use one mystery to solve another. Susan Blackmore reviews some of the evidence for psi and asks just what it does tell us about consciousness.
[ What Can the Paranormal Teach Us About Consciousness? ]

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 12:26:33 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Jim
Subject: '...on why Nigel' what...?
Message:
No problemo whatsoever with Blackmore on Psychic stuff. Most of it is excellent, in fact. She was one of several very influential people who completely inverted my post-cult worldview.

It is her recent memes-as-scientific-theory overkill which I truly cannot stand - it completely lacks scientific rigour, not to mention the obvious social value of her earlier work which had both in spades.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:53:04 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You Junky!
Message:
Jim! You just couldn't stay off the smack could ya! 'Oh ya I quit the forum etc..' Ha ha! Mail me dude-later!
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 01:06:16 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Its, not me, Barry. It's a different Jim
Message:
I stopped posting just like I said I would. This guy's different.
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 10:11:29 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hmmmmmmmmmm..Jim?......n/t
Message:
two jims...lolol
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:20:54 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Jagdeo on tour again?
Message:
I was recently informed that Jagdeo was recently on tour again for big boy in South Africa, anybody have any info on whether this is accurate?
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:34:48 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Who told you?
Message:
Hi Hamzen,

thsi year a premie I know saw a Connect Africa video with Jagdeo in it. I think it was from September last year. She claims that he was being flown around by a pilot in a private plane. She apparently knows the pilot and his wife. Thomas Jones. Jagdeo was doing missionary work in Africa. We know that the pilot in question was in Africa flying about and tried to contact him in the States after he got back to ask him about it but couldn't get through. I asked my father to get a copy of the video but he never got around to it for some reason. In fact no-one was able to get a copy of the video. Which is a pity. The premie who told me this is an old timer who spent lots of time with the Indian Mahatamas and I don't think she would have mistaken Jagdeo.

Her sister was brutally raped by another Indian Mahatma and flipped out afterwards and carved a circle into her head which was meant to be a sign that she was wedded to Maharaji. Apparently this particular Mahatam was sent back to India soon after.

Elan Vital claim that Jagdeo was never touring Africa recently. They told me that after Deepak questioned him about the 'allegations' in 99 he left the Dehli ashram the next day on his own accord and vanished into thin air. But then again, another story they told me is that he was asked to leave and went back to his family village. Another story is that even his own sons don't know where he is. Yet another story is that the last time Maharaji saw Jagdeo he turned his back on him. A man called Bobby told my father this at Amaroo. I imagine that if Maharaji turned his back on Jagdeo it was for a reason and the reason has got something to do with the allegations. Was this before or after Deepak interviewed him? I don't know. It's all very strange.

My father passed Jagdeo in India when he was at the Delhi ashram about five years ago and felt like saying something but didn't. I sort of wished he'd punched him on the nose. I would have.

So all we have are rumours really because no-one was able to find the Connect Africa video or contact Thomas Jones the pilot. It's all a complex web of secrets and lies and when it comes trying to fight through the web it seems some people become inert, paralyzed, or just don't answer the phone. Who is the spider at the centre of the web? That's what I want to know.

I'm pretty sure Elan Vital know a great deal more about Jagdeo but they are hardly going to tell me are they.

But who told you that Jagdeo was recently on tour in Africa?

Abi

Officially Elan Vital know nothing about Jagdeo. I asked Elan Vital if I could speak to Deepak around the Amaroo event and they basically shrugged me off in a very patronising way.

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 06:54:20 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Aren't they full of shit
Message:
It was months ago I heard, not sure who it was, and I was offline at the time so couldn't follow it up here, but it just seemed fitting for the arrogant little snot that gm is. You can almost hear his pea brain going, 'nobody puts pressure on me, who do they think they are', and immediately arranging for him to tour.

Abi, you've got to follow up the pilot thing, if he was in a video, and was touring, it's absolutelu outrageous.

And as for your father, he needs sorting out. If my daughter had been thru what you have, I would have done more than chin him for sure.

What a crock of shit EV are eh.

I guess once you've sold yourself a pup, and been at it for thirty years, any desperation to keep it going is required, but how those individuals who know about this shit can look themselves in the face in the morning is beyond me.

But then look at that creep Catweasles brainless response, even if he's a particularly obnoxious version, he carries the flavour around like a bad stench.

But it's not a cult eh, R-Right,

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:52:12 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Sud africa.........
Message:
You seem to ignore the fact that Mr Jag needs a passport to travel. He is about 90 years old. He has probably been in a few places you mention and not in others. Why focus on EV? Why not Interpol?

Connect uses old footage as historical background frequently.So even though it may in fact be him it could be 10- 15 years old

I give him 2-5 years at best. Then he'll croak.It's tough but apart from personally confronting him and gaining some measure of completion, I really wonder what you can achieve. My tormentors are all dead. Just get one thing straight whilst the old man is alive, He is your nemesis. No-one else. He is the one you need to finish it with.
As for anyone else's answers here, I'm a deaf , dumb and blind mute.

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 13:21:21 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: an easy solution...
Message:
Oh sure, nice one. I'll just go and hunt him down then in India and then I'll get closure, move on, heal and life will be beautiful.

Why focus on EV?

Hellow, is anyone home?

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 23:37:04 (EDT)
From: Cw
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: an easy solution...
Message:
Listen, I wouldn't waste your time if I couldn't help you. How I do it is MY choice.I'll tell you one thing though ;your friends here are not helping.
It is not as hard as you think.
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:11:47 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Re: Sud africa.........
Message:
hmmm-- deaf, dumb and blind mute.
deaf for the thumbs in your ears. dumb and mute fro the tongue up your nose. blind for the fingers in your eyes. all you can do is breathe and block it all out.

why be born if you're not going to be here?

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 00:32:46 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: How funny you are, Cat
Message:
Yes, you ARE def, dumb, blind and mute! Good to see a little healthy introspection there, Cat.

But, really, who are YOU to tell Abi who her nemisis is or isn't? Aren't you really just trying to persuade her to forget m's role in all this? Jagdeo was his EMISSARY and, unfortunately for you, m alledgly knew that he was a danger to premie kids and did nothing to protect them. You can't deal with that so you play possum. Boy, a lot of good that does!

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 04:25:04 (EDT)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: How funny you are, Cat
Message:
Are you a lawyer? I thought so. You wouldn't understand unless I slipped you a Grand or two. You can't get it? Well Jim dont worry because no-one escapes that doorway. And even you , you God that walks , you supernatural being , must go that way.
Jagdeo is the accused. Police would interview him. No money in that one Mr Litigator? You are as transparent as glass........
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:05:56 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: A bitch, eh, cat !
Message:
CW: My tormentors are all dead ... I'm a deaf , dumb and blind mute.

You never answered my question as to whether you had been forcibly deprogrammed, except to (grandiously) reply ' ... you're fucked then, aren't you?'

Of course you are wrong about the people here. They have broken free of cultish mind-control. Your intelligence troubles you with the truth about your situation, yet your resentful, hurting heart prevents you from dealing with it. You are caught in an agony of reactive denial.

Who were your tormentors, cat? Was it your family? Your father? Are they the reason why you nurture your hatred? Is it a form of revenge on them to poison your heart and cling limpet-like to a perverted cult?

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 10:53:21 (EDT)
From: Soprano Catweasel
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Funiculi Funicula!!
Message:
Actually it was a family of unlikely British migrants all called John. Iwas forced to eat Kippers , mushy peas and porridge. Then listen to Vera Lyn over and over and over and over.....
Luckily my next door neighbours were Calabrese and they kindly rescued me. They slit all their pommy throats,buried em all under the new shopping centre carpark , plied me with Lambrusco and fed me Spagetti Pultenara until I could say 'Fungula Pisca' in my sleep and I've been happy ever since.
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:26:13 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Soprano Catweasel
Subject: pea brain damaged by guru
Message:
Yeah, K works...

LOOK AT YOU...

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 23:30:40 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: At least I have a Brain!
Message:
My big advantage over you FOOL is that I HAVE one. Crawl back under the rock you came from.
It has nothing to do with K
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 08:57:34 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: ... just don't know how to use it !
Message:
My big advantage over you FOOL is that I HAVE one. Crawl back under the rock you came from.
It has nothing to do with K


---

Nice going Ms Weasle. Glad to see THAT K is making you so-o-o blissful in your heart.

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 07:58:16 (EDT)
From: Your master
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: is vicareously
Message:
responsible for jagdeo's unspeakable acts.

Face it arsehole!!!

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 10:50:02 (EDT)
From: Yea and
Email: None
To: Your master
Subject: Eva Braun is 'vicareously'
Message:
responsible for Hitler's unspeakable acts.

YOU STUPID GUTLESS CROCK OF SHIT

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 11:04:04 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Yea and
Subject: And Foghorn Leghorn is a Chicken hawk!
Message:
I have to agree with you. It is a stupid ill founded poorly grounded PR campaign. IT just does not fly.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 06:19:23 (EDT)
From: Madamoiselle Gassielles
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Good Cat
Message:
You have always agreed with cerise, no matter which of her miriad Pimpernel Hari special guises she is strutting around in on any particularly pleasant easy day's night.

Your occasional support of her has been noted, but not overly celebrated due to it's poor inconsistent nature.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:07:42 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nige@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: All
Subject: Moley's full of sherbet lemons (ot)
Message:
And she looks like a big hippie in that fucking hat..

Had more than enough peace and will never eat another motherfucking lentil in my life,
Nige

(oops - sorry, FA. Forum clutter. But my lover is away for the night and I have been hitting her mother's champagne and praying for grace in the next lifetime ;) Yes - F6 gossips - I love and adore Moldy Warp of this very here forum. She is mine forever. No question - no rivals. Oh happy day...)

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:59:25 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: Moley's full of sherbet lemons (ot)
Message:
All this foreplay on the forum is getting me jealous. OOH la la Baby!
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:22:02 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Frankly I'm sick of Maha (ot)
Message:
Nige, your off topic posts are always welcome, and glad you and Moldy/Moley are happy.

But really, you are going to spoil our reputation as a hate club!

love, f

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:46:37 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Re: Frankly I'm sick of Maha (ot)
Message:
Thankie thankie thankeeeeee!! I had just composed a similar post then thought, oh I shouldn't :)
M is the most boring thing in 'This Life' and this is coming from someone who just did web searches for axle specs for her husbands 64 Scout! My interest here is to see the googoo stopped, help when I can especially JM with pages and helping new ex's. Guess that is it.
You both cheered me up so much!!
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:58:04 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Say Something Positive About Maharaji Contest
Message:
David Andersen got on my case because, apparently, from his point of view, everytime I say something about Maharaji it's negative. I know NEGATIVITY is a major sin in cult-world, and what is NEGATIVE is a pretty subjective thing, so I thought I might offer a contest to ex-premies to see what we can say positive about Maharaji. Here are some things I thought of:

1. David Andersen says Maharaji is nice to him and kind of fun when they are doing projects together. I take David at his word that this is the case;
2. I have heard he is nice to his kids, and gives them nice things like I heard Premlata has her own Mercedes, and he bought Hansi a really nice pickup truck;
3. David's sister, Erica, said Maharaji was pretty nice to her that time she met with him in 1982, and although she was really scared, Maharaji did not read her the riot act for thinking about moving out of the ashram and getting married. That was pretty nice, especially when you consider the fire and brimstone he laid on the rest of us about those very subjects. Remember when he said leaving the ashram and getting married was equivalent to blowing your brains out with dynamite? But he didn't say that to Erica, even though he could have.
4. I have not heard of Maharaji committing any crimes excempt using illegal drugs, and leaving the scene of a fatal accident. Unfortunately, there is no law against falsely claiming to be God, accepting money under those false pretenses, or having sex with the very people who think you are God. Probably no laws broken there.
5. He always wore really nice suits and ties;
6. When he was in Chicago one time he sent over his left-over pizza (Chicago deep dish no less) to the Chicago ashram and we all got a bite or two.
7. Although he had advantages no one else has, including unlimited time, unlimited funds, and a full-time aviation instructor at his disposal, he really did learn to fly planes.
8. He made it through, or almost through the ninth grade;
9. He actually went to marriage counseling with his wife, even though the counselor was did not have adequate experience in working with a Perfect Master; and
10. I heard that during the Bosnian war, that he offered Bosnian premies the right to camp out in Amaroo, provided they were premies, and provided they could get from Bosnia to Australia. I mean, he didn't have to do it, you know.

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:29:02 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: he never asked me for sex
Message:
only for money, thanks god. Can u imagine? passive blab
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 19:31:11 (EDT)
From: Does that mean
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: that he
Message:
asked you for sex without paying money?

National Enquirer Reader

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 18:04:19 (EDT)
From: David Smith
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: He used to humliate me...
Message:
And I LOVED it. Then, I used to humiliate the premies in turn. I LOVED that too.
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 20:19:24 (EDT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: David Smith
Subject: Re: He used to humliate me...
Message:
And I LOVED it. Then, I used to humiliate the premies in turn. I LOVED that too.


---

David, Are you an ex-premie now? I only recently found this website and have read only a smattering of postings so far, but I do remember seeing several (I don't recall their dates) which implied that you were still a coordinator somewhere and givin' 'em hell on the lord's behalf. I was in the Chicago Ashram when you came there after 'Millenium' in 1973. Whether you are an ex now or not, I sincerely hope you no longer traffic in humiliation for the LOVE of it! One of the reasons I left M in 1986 was due to my recognizing how he used to put people around him down constantly, in subtle and not-so-subtle ways. I used to go to the Residence every day for several years, and was around him fairly often. I don't ever ONCE remember him complimenting or praising anyone. One time there was a problem with his Mercedes that even Beverly Hills Mercedes couldn't fix. They hadn't a clue as to what was wrong even. So M was stuck. I had an idea what the problem was, but I knew it would be difficult and time consuming to fix. But I loved the guy and wanted his car to work, and he said to go ahead and try. I ended up pulling the entire dashboard out of his $80,000 Mercedes, fixed the problem the experts couldn't fix, and put it all back together again perfectly. This took days, and my body was sore from lying on his floorboards the whole time. Do you think he was grateful? Do you think he'd say 'gee,thanks, I can drive my favorite car now'? No way. All he did was mention the 'mess' I'd made while the work was in progress.(the car and garage were IMMACULATE when the job was FINISHED, however.) The tone of his half-humorous put-down was hurtful to me only because, I then realized, that I felt he was spiritually superior to me. Then I recalled that he almost ALWAYS put me and everybody else down after they would make heroic efforts on his behalf. I began to see that this was his way of keeping his devotees in their place....always doubting themselves and therefore needing him in their lives. When I saw through this ploy of his, I began to lose my respect for him. The final straw came when I was invited to his new year's party at the residence a few months later. There in his living room, in the presence of about 35 people, he got so drunk that he could barely stand. He would make incoherent statements and slur his words in the process. It seems everyone but me got a great kick out of this! But I was frankly disgusted. This guy wasn't fit to lead his own life, let alone the lives of countless sincere people around the world. That's when I quit for good. I continued to do 'service' at 'the residence', but only if they paid me $25 an hour.....Which they did for over a year, till they could find someone knowledgable enough to handle what I used to do (which wasn't automobiles, by the way).
Since leaving him my life is much more fun, free, and spiritual, as WELL as more worldly. I've come to see that there are no mistakes in the universe, and that the time I spent following this guru was NOT wasted, nor is he a 'badguy'. We all do the best we can and we all (including M) learn at our own pace. I do not envy M his opulent lifestyle, because I feel it is a SUBSTITUTE for real happiness. I sense that M is in pain, and has low self-esteem. A person who is experiencing the spiritual bliss of being alive to the moment has zero interest in putting another person down, don't you think, David?
And to want to HUMILIATE another? I can only say that, for myself, I'd have to be living in my own private self-created HELL to want to do something like that now. So, in many ways, I have compassion for M and what he must be going through, opulent lifestyle notwithstanding. He seems to have inherited the role of Perfect Charlatan from his dad and is lost in an delusional world precipitated by this form of child abuse he suffered early on. And my worldview, when I came to him in 1972, had me looking (unconsciously) for a loving father-figure, to heal my very deep father-wound. Together M and I made a perfect match to fulfill one another's fantasies. I needed a leader and he needed to be one......and in both of us, our needs were rooted in self-doubt and low self-esteem. My lesson in all this is to take responsibility for my life and what I experience in it. This makes me no longer a victim in any circumstance(since I'M the one who defines what meaning that circumstance has for me), and to not blame others, because doing so defines me as a powerless victim (which was why I came to M in the first place). So that was a great lesson to learn and it only took 14 years....some people may never learn it in a lifetime!

THIS IS A GREAT WEBSITE, ISN'T IT?
Love, Bob

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 22:35:03 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: Thanks for your best of forum post Bob [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 21:29:51 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: PS Bob ..cut & paste your post on LG? :)nt
Message:
zz
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 21:17:42 (EDT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: Re: He used to humliate me...
Message:
Hey Bob - Your story is really interesting and revealing , mate !

Think the 'David Smith' poster was a parody though...

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 21:20:55 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: Above post Dermot, not Bob..duhh NT
Message:
z
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 20:34:03 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: Hi Bob, keep posting , every remeniscence helps [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:24:52 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Say Something Positive About Maharaji Contest
Message:
ok-- I'll bite:

maharaji personally walked me all the way from the deboarding tunnel of the airplane, thru customs, baggage claim and straight to the buses, the first time i met him and went to england for guru puja at ally pally and cuffley campsite. he could have refused. he could have told me to leave him alone. he could have told his henchmen to 'escort me' away from him, but he didn;t. he made eye contact, indicated for me to walk right with him, with no one in between us, and made sure that i didn't get lost or confused or left behind.
that was a fortunate thing. looking back I could have easily gotten lost in england, right as soon as i got out of the plane. i was the last one to get off, and had zero idea what to do.

ok. is that enough?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:38:47 (EDT)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: Say Something Positive About Maharaji Contest
Message:
maharaji was there for me when i was looking for a guru to devote myself to. when i was in that stage of my life when i was still carrying lots of devotee energy and looking for some place to put it. he was there for me when i needed that other half of the co-dependent story of guru devotee. he was there for me when i needed someone to give my power away to, to praise and glorify when i was still afraid to give myself the credit i deserved for my own happiness and accomplishments. he was there for me in my idealism for 'world peace' by offering some vague plan to bring that about that i could join in with and thus continue to play out my misguided idealism of one world leader bringing us all to the golden land like some pied piper. i called out to someone like that to fill the void in my life and he filled the role perfectly for that time.
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 06:34:06 (EDT)
From: Two Feet
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: In Praise of Maharaji
Message:
He always knows where to 'draw the line' ... for his premies.
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 03:25:26 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Maharaji once almost
Message:
gave this child(In Malaysia), who was clearly poverty stricken and playing with a hoop in the road, some money...BUT maharaji, in his great compassion, didn't want to ruin the blissful experience the child was having playing with the hoop and resisted the temptation to give the child some money. So the Lord of all left the child in his blissful poverty.
By this act Maharaji proved to us all that materialism isn't everything.

Of course there was also that newspaper vendour who Maharaji almost bought all the papers from. But Maharaji, in his infinite compassion, decided not to give him any money as he(the vendour) would have expectations that the same would happen in the future.So the Lord of all left the child in his blissful poverty.

Also isn't Maharaji fantastic in creating his own revisionist history. This is all to teach us that all is illusion(except fot Him).

Yes, Maharaji really really put Himself out for us His creatures.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:28:54 (EDT)
From: Prostrate Gland
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: His feet never smelled like tunafish in darshan
Message:
shnorfle
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:33:37 (EDT)
From: Vehicular Manslaughter
Email: None
To: Prostrate Gland
Subject: And, he has the best sawed in half car in Malibu
Message:
shnarfle
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:47:08 (EDT)
From: Humble Pie
Email: None
To: Vehicular Manslaughter
Subject: No one can accuse him of false modesty (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:59:23 (EDT)
From: Elizabeth Clear Profit
Email: None
To: Humble Pie
Subject: Best New Age Revisionist (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:14:01 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: that's So special! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 20:47:58 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Say Something Positive About Maharaji Contest
Message:
My fingers won't let me even try tp type anything like that. And if I tried to say something positive, my tongue would jump out. Fortunately, it's not stuck up my nose from the inside.
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:49:13 (EDT)
From: Ian Dury
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: He doesn't sweat much for a fat guy (nt)
Message:
xxx
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:43:18 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Now Holi was totally cool
Message:
By his hydrotherapeutic grace we had the world's most outrageous wet T-shirt fiesta - now that was freakin' wild. I still recall the looks on the old geezers faces when we all trudged back to the hotels looking like spin-art from the carnival.

BTW: I showed some unPWKs a bootleg Holi video from the Miami Orange Bowl and they were ready to sign on the dotted line. But when I showed them the Intro to K-Lite video their reaction was 'What the f**k? You mean you don't do the psychedelic hose-down anymore?' I guess that was a 'big drip' for them, so to speak, and they hadn't even received K yet.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:21:20 (EDT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Have you heard of 'Paint-ball?'
Message:
My 15-year-old stepson is in town, and he has been catching us up on the latest IT thing: Paintball. It's a kind of warzone, where you lob colored water-based paint at each other using special guns. I'm listening to him and thinking, 'oh boy, it's Holi all over again.'

Holi was okay, except that it was a bit one-sided. Now Paintball sounds like something more democratic.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:31:18 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: Have you heard of 'Paint-ball?'
Message:
Paintball has been around for about 10 years - making a comeback like capri pants I suppose. It's a war game and often a dad and son bonding thing - is JD going to go shooting with him? At least it's not guys out fearlessly killing bambi or something. With paintball everone tries to avoid getting hit while 'killing' everyone else. With holi, everyone screamed to get hit - can you say S&M (spray and Maharaji)?
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:35:46 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: 'YES maharaji YES ' ,,,howzat? nt
Message:
zz
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:06:47 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Couple of things you missed Joe
Message:
(1) His incompetence, there he is, god incarnate, with that greatest gift, sorry free gift, in creation, and after thirty years in the west, what's he got 5, maybe ten thousand followers.
That is seriously impressive, nobody could be that incompetent even if they tried. If he'd been successful there would have been hundreds of jagdeo's, just like the catholic church

(2) His followers are hilarious, I'd forgotten what a hoot it was reading premie posts. Only people who have contorted their reality models so thoroughly over the years, while attempting to appear normal, could be so funny.

(3) But seriously, his music is very moving, and all produced from a tiny little homebuilt studio, and it's not even his main interest.

(4) He's added to my mystique amongst my mates, a couple of them saw a video of his years ago, and left bemused that I could ever have been involved with such an obvious 'used car salesman fraud'. Every so often I try to explain my involvement, great fun.

(5) But really seriously, once you've been in atruly subtle cult, it's so easy to spot propaganda, cult like thinking, and hidden keywords light up like neon signs. I owe him a lot.

(6) Also he's so obviously dodgy, he's been the main reason my daughter run's a mile from anything 'spiritual', and for that I am TRULY greatful.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:21:19 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: No. 4's a little off
Message:
4. I have not heard of Maharaji committing any crimes excempt using illegal drugs, and leaving the scene of a fatal accident. Unfortunately, there is no law against falsely claiming to be God, accepting money under those false pretenses, or having sex with the very people who think you are God. Probably no laws broken there.

You've also heard of him being an accessory after the fact to the attempted murder of Pat Halley. There's also the matter of Scot Jameson's account that Gupta, who lived with us in the Ottawa ashram from some time and remains in Ottawa today, took the rap for Maharaji on a smuggling charge and did actual time for it.

One thing that I liked about the guy was his ability to enjoy being worshipped. Not everyone can do that. It's a real pleasure to see. I bet 1800 people will be drooling tonight at the prospect of seeing someone enjoy themself so.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:28:02 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yeah, but he was underage at the time
Message:
I think he was only 15 when the Pat Halley incident happened and maybe 14 when the smuggling thing happened. Now, I know here in the USA we can and do execute both children and the mentally retarded, but you I think we ought to give Maharaji a break on those.
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:35:49 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: well if karma is tit for tat
Message:
maybe he ought to repay for pat halley and the bycyclist by getting on a bike and blindfolding himself and just cruising at breakneck speed down trancas canyon road until he sails onto PCH and trust the grace.
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:16:32 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Lol nt
Message:
xx
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:12:51 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: He never asked me to sleep with him..(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:22:03 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Do the premies lose the challenge by default?
Message:
It's been a week now since I first proposed the 'panel' idea to consider the single issue: is Maharaji a cult leader? So far, not a single premie here has taken this challenge seriously. Fine, I'm not surprised. As you won't be to know that no one from the various web sites I sent copies of my 'open letter' to, not Pia or Glasser or Maharaji or EV or the good folks at ELK have granted me the decency of a reply.

This is all quite laughable in the face of the various ways premies have tried to braoch the subject of whether or not Maharaji's a cult leader without really considering the evidence itself. For example, here's Pia:

There have been several hundred responses that range widely in content and tone. The vast majority of these are in their essence expressions of gratitude towards Maharaji. Many are congratulations and thanks for the site; others include personal stories short and long, aphorisms, and expressions of appreciation, as well as those that sought to answer the two
questions asked: How do you know this is not a cult? and How do you know Maharaji is not in it for the money?

We have and will continue to post selected responses, which we hope you will enjoy. As expected, we have also received many responses from exes themselves. Some are disenchanted; some feel that their feet were stepped on by other premies and are very angry; and some want specifically to address some serious issues. Amongst these ex mails there were also some that were extremely unpleasant. There were several insincere suggestions ­ even orders ­ regarding how to run this site. To those what I have to say is this: Yes. We will address issues that need addressing - and we will be the ones to decide when and how this will be done! (emphasis added)

Note how Pia's afraid to even ask the open question: IS Maharaji a cult leader? but instead asks her cult classic!

So, fine, Pia will decide when and how issues will be addressed. Unfortunately, if the past is at all indicative of the future, all we can expect from her and her friends is more cowardly evasion. She's simply afraid to put her cards on the table. That's obvious.

Glasser is an even more pathetic character. His idea of confronting the issues is to simply say things like:

Maharaji's message is what counts. There IS no money issue. It's just a sideshow to spread the poison of doubt. Don't drink it.

or:

... hate groups rely on the insidious urban legend: stories so old they could never be substantiated. Everything is 'I heard it from someone in the know who told them....' At best, these people are misleading themselves, at worst, they are trying to mislead others. They have no documentation of wrongdoing, because there never was any. Merely typing it up and posting it on a web page to look like 'archives' doesn't make it true.

The impression he gives me is of someone who's locked himself in the bathroom shouting threats out to the other people in the house. Charles, buddy, YOU'RE the one who's hiding, not us. This panel idea was just an attempt to bring you out into the open where we can actually talk about things. Oh well.....

EV wrote up its own silly cult checklist and then applied it laughably to itself. That's the best it could do although, as I've mentioned, they made the mistake, it looks like, of inviting readers to anaylze the evidence themselves. (Wonder what Glasser would say about that?) But they're not playing either.

Neither is ELK and neither is Maharaji.

Which leaves it to you few (unauthorized?) online premies. But, like I said, none of you have taken this challenge seriously either.

So what now? Thank Dr. Beyerstein for the offer but tell him that, at this time, the cult isn't prepared for real public scrutiny? I guess so. I guess so.

All I can say in closing, though, is that you all look like hypocrites when you argue the facts, things like quotes for instance, and yet are afraid to see your interpretations tested by anyone but yourselves. You truly are cowards. Boy am I glad I got out when I did. We had integrity back then. Something you've long lost, that's apparent.

And Carlos, yes, you really do sound like an idiot when you praise Maharaji for 'bringing together' all the people you met trying to get a ride to the cultfest. You want respect? Don't say stupid things. It's that easy.

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 18:41:29 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Am I too late for the challenge?
Message:
Can I play?
PT
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 21:25:16 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: No, you're not too late (yawn ..)
Message:
You want to play? Fine. Get someone who's never been a premie to participate as a panel member. Read the other posts I've made on topic. It's pretty simple, really. But first you need to get your volunteer.

Got one? Who?

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 20:57:12 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: STOP THE PRESS! Premies, will this guy do?
Message:
Surely Will Arlen is the man for the job, premies. He's an outsider but he's obviously 'open minded.'
[ The perfect premie candidate? ]
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:09:30 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: STOP THE PRESS! I'm peeing my pants [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 21:05:57 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hilarious ! nt
Message:
zz
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 15:03:14 (EDT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: All
Subject: computer is fixed!!
Message:
I,ve been off line for more than 2 weeks, with a fried motherboard. Forums are not fun if not enjoyed in the comforts of your own home. Friday I have to go to court for a traffic ticket caused by speeding to work after sticking on the forumV too long. I must say I have to get used to this forum VI. Not having the forum as a sounding board for over 2 weeks diminishes the creativity and inspiration. I need the juices to get flowing again..
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:17:55 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: Yo Bob...dont get addicted, now !
Message:
zz
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 04:46:47 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: New interesting document on EPO
Message:
Religious Ecstasy from a Physiological Point of View.

By KAJ BJÖRKQVIST (by courtesy of the author).
[ Religious Ecstasy ]

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 18:21:58 (EDT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Spot on as usual j-m, good man
Message:
Do you have other links along similar lines?
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 00:54:35 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Don't go to Thousand Oaks
Message:
I had a dream.
And amongst the chariots, the fire, the swarming masses I saw a sign.
And the sign said 'If you don't want to go to the Aubergine Restaurant in Thousand Oaks for the $75 a head set meal with complimentary champagne and valet parking- DON'T GO
I thought this idea could equally be applied to M's event.
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:32:52 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: Only because I didnt know till this week. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 14:29:28 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: Did Somebody Actually COUNT the Oaks?
Message:
I mean, are there really a thousand in that town? If you go there, will you see numbers on them. What happens if they get that Oak fungus that is infesting California right now. If 10 trees die, will it then be called '990 Oaks, California?' And what about Agoura Hills? What is 'Agoura?' Isn't it kind of wool like Cashmere? Are the hills there covered with it?
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:53:58 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: they had to count them all
Message:
and though the holes were rather smal, they had to count them all...
now they know how many holes it takes to fill the alber t hall.

I'd love to turn you on.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 14:39:47 (EDT)
From: Dickie Pwickie
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: They counted the attendees and renamed it ....
Message:
..... Thousand Jokes!!!!!!!!!

And really, dear participant ji's, life is so much a joke and The Speaker is indicating this by subtly holding an event in Thousand Oaks but we know e means Jokes! Ha, ha, ha, ha. Such bliss and joy. No more suffering and pain, no more suffering and pain, no more suffering and pain, when I show my Smart Card and $45 there's no more suffering and pain.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 14:27:12 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: Re: Don't go to Thousand Oaks
Message:
Hey PT,

Whatever they'd be feeding ya at the Aubergine Restaurant in Thousand Oaks for the $75 set meal, I'd rather be sucking on that than what premies will be sucking up at m's event for their $45 and whatever else they can contribute, because gosh and golly those event costs can never really be covered ENOUGH.

Hey PT, I bet you'd be the first to cream in your jeans if you heard 'We raised $100,000 for m at Thousand Oaks!' And I also bet you won't admit it.

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 18:04:19 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Thousand Oaks?
Message:
When the State of California Naming Commitee were presented with the name 'Thousand Oaks', the question of actual numbers was raised.
Being a very litigious society the commitee decided they needed to protect themselves by getting a statistically valid estimate of the oaks.
Using bulldozers and prisoners from the Oji prison, they cleared 10% of the area of Thousands Oaks (site of the current business district) and created a pile of oaks which they then counted.
The number was either 109 or 100 , there is still some confusion.
Never the less, they concluded there were about 1100 oaks in the area of Thousand Oaks.
So they burnt the oaks they had bulldozed and concluded that there were now about a thousand oaks in 'Thousand Oaks' and the name was accepted.
PT
(Source: Deliberations of the California Naming Commitee 1905-1925)
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 22:23:16 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: A premie love song
Message:
I'm talking you down
You motherfucking clown
That's right, you mental coward
Quit quacking, you ain't Howard
Or Donald or Daffy or any other duck
You just burping up and drooling
What? You've had a little suck
Of your master's poisoned nipple?
This shit's left you mental cripple!
Had a life?
Well you mighta'
But your mind weren't a figtha
So he's got you where he's had you
For a real long time
And he's got you cause he's got you
In his fucked cult slime
Yes he's got you where he wants you
It's a perfect crime
When the victim keeps on paying
For the satellite time

In the background, imagine your basic slow hip hop beat with Dave Andersen's urgent 'Please let me give myself to you' far off in the background.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 22:00:36 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Soon to be an X-flies smash!
Message:
Cool shit James. Your rime skills are fat! can't wait to hear the studio version!
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:18:41 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Not bad at all Jim
Message:
although Captain Beefheart over a heavy metal/rap beat sounds nearer the mark
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 23:20:38 (EDT)
From: Silvia/sb
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: OT
Message:
Hi Hamsen!

Nice to 'see' you around. Beefheart sounds more like the right name then Master; I like it. Can I use it sometimes? My favorite though is still Lard, Gad Lard. hahahaha

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 00:36:28 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Silvia/sb
Subject: For the record, Silvia
Message:
Captain Beefheart is (was?) an extremely quirky, avant garde musician who put out a couple of strange, much loved by some, albums in the sixties and early seventies.

Pauline Premie and Don Puerco Avatar are both parodies (I didn't get the latter myself until yesterday).

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:06:54 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: David Andersen
Message:
Jim, I can't recall David Anderson ever performing at a cult festival, program or event. I vaguely recall he was involved with music of some sort during the time I was in Miami (1979-1980), but he never made the cult top-ten, which by the late 70s and early 80s was all One Foundation, that group from DC called 'Colors,' and some group out of Denver. Plus the Holy Jesters, but they don't count. Did David sing with a group? Oh, yeah, and Rich Neal, who looked like an alien and also sang like one.
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:45:23 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: He sang a KILLER version of ...
Message:
... the gospel song, 'Oh, Happy Day,' at Millenium. I vaguely remember a gospel choir, with white robes. Until all the other performers but the aforementioned bands were the ONLY performers at the programs, I recall him singing his songs. So did I, as well as bands I was in, and other musicians -- although most of us were relegated to being 'warm up' acts and never performed when the Maha was on the stage. A few years before I left, there weren't even the warm-up acts, and music stopped happening at local satsang programs. Before that there were always local musicians who'd offer a tune. In the early days (like 1974) when I was in the Apostles, we even played for darshan lines.

David is/was a soulful singer.

bests, F

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:13:01 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: CAN premies sing gospel??
Message:
It's not often you get a blue man who can sing the whites. Gawd - can't they get Eartha Kitt interested in fatso? I am sure she'd do it so much better. (..'when fatso washed...' {ooh he washed} '..his own dishes for once.. {oh happy day...}}
[ other songs.. ]
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:33:03 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Really?
Message:
Joe,

All it would take is one brief soundclip and you'd remember. In a cult that had little room for unrestrained expressions of emotion (unless you were Marolyn or Claudia crying a bit on stage or Brian McDermott being a goof), David Andersen's performance was an island of way-over-the-top histrionics. Acoustic guitar, fairly big guy, black hair, moustache (pony tail in later years), his signature tune was indeed a cult favorite. Here's what I recall:

'Please let me give my heart to youou
I'll do just what you want me tooo
Da da daaaa da da da daaaaaa

[and here's where he'd REALLY squish up his face and belt it out]
Please have mercy, it's the [something or other]

Come on, Joe! You must have heard him do this at least fifteen, twenty times.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:36:41 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Well, I'm sure I did..but
Message:
I don't remember it. I remember most of the music at Millennium as REEALLLLLY over the top. But after that, particularly after about 1977, I can't place David, and I do recall what he looks like from just seeing him in Miami. So, perhaps I have repressed that.

I got so, so, so, SICK of One Foundation and Kim's voice that the thought of listening to them again makes me ill. Not that they din't have talent, but I never like reggae and they had a kind of watered-down reggae thing going, and well, it was okay the first few thousand times, but after that, forget it.

It sure seemed that the last 5 years or so I was in the cult the music was much more controlled, like Francesca said. There wasn't the kind of open expression by people that I had liked so much before. Even people who weren't very good got the chance to perform sometimes and it was great. But by the late 70s I think Maharaji was controlling everything and it was just the same, over and over.

Who was that little guy from Michigan who sang that 'dance, dance dance' song? Not Rich Neal, the other one.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:27:19 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Ha yeah,the first few thousand times ! nt
Message:
xx
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:50:38 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Here's the rest
Message:
Please let me give myself
to you,
I'll do just what you want
me to,
now that I've offered you
my heart,
please have mercy,
it's the deepest part

But I forget the rest. The words were actually pretty nice, if you didn't attribute them to the Maha. That's why those prime time bands were able to take a lot of those radio love songs and flop 'em all over to devotion.

Like Durga Ji's plaintive 'I can't help falling in love with you' Elvis stuff sung right on stage (be still my heart), and even that Elvis impersonator singing it to the Maha. Funny, Bill Clinton, Dan Lungren and the Maha all used Elvis as a centerpiece of their schtick at one time.

Oh well. Politics.

--f

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:48:14 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Re: Here's the rest
Message:
yes he did sing that one on stage quite a few times.
M criticised the song once saying 'guru maharaji says YES and the premie keeps saying 'can I give my heart to you' and guru maha..
says YES and the.....(he said that at least twice)

David DID make a real good tape of music and Sordoni spent what I heard was 100,000 on making it and m said 'of course you cant release it'
I have a copy it didnt fit the one foundation mold so m killed it.
I wonder how david feels about his lost album?
Someone might ask him.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 17:42:42 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Question re the words
Message:
Does 'the deepest part' modify 'heart' or 'mercy'? And the deepest part of what?

Dan Lungren used Elvis in his campaign? Is that true? Dan Lungren, what a nice guy. I heard he is hosting some Catholic radio show in Orange County. Figures. I'm sure he counsels all women to respect the unborn.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 18:38:26 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The heart and Danny Boy (ot)
Message:
Yes Joe, Lungren LOVED Elvis. Not sure if he used it in the campaign, but Elvis was one of his faves. Word has it that he sang Elvis tunes in the executive office while he was Attorney General and loved playing Elvis tapes.

I thought it was so funny when Clinton got into Elvis because you know Dan Lungren couldn't stand Bill Clinton. Maybe that's why Dan couldn't use Elvis in his campaign. I mean, after all, someone might have confused the two of them up. Please have mercy!

And I think the 'deepest part' modified heart, because you know the Maha's mercy ain't deep, though he has (at times) put on a good show.

Francesca who is at the wheel of a Webvan full of rotting vegetables and has been told she can never go home again

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 19:59:57 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Webvan
Message:
Well thanks for the info. I hope we never have to hear again from Mr. Lungren.

I am in morning over the loss of Webvan. I LOVED Webvan. I LOVED ordering my groceries over the internet and having them delivered. I patronized them but they went bankrupt anyway. I never could figure out how they planned to actually make money, but it was fun while it lasted.

So, why are you driving a Webvan?

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 13:40:33 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Dude, I can't figure out ... (ot)
Message:
... what to do with these rotting vegetables. See what I get for leaving the Master! Occasionally, as a child, I was told I had a head like a cabbage. Well you know how those smell when they rot?

Premies beware! You can't believe what happens when shite for brains gets mixed up in those vegetables. Be especially wary if you've ever been called a 'meathead,' because it just may be true! The Master never told you that rotting vegetables are picnic fare compared to rotten meat. Well you can always use the maggots in salads.

Oh, I'll stop now.

F, the tell-evangelist.

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:47:59 (EDT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Really?/Yes
Message:
didn't know the crooner's name but heard the song-over and over; I guess they were trying to instruct us
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 22:51:43 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: A premie love song
Message:
You're losing it Jim!
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 05:02:40 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: I liked it!
Message:
Good one, Jim! I've just gone four or so rounds with Richard II, and the sentiments expressed really struck a chord for me.

I wrote a rap about Yorum Weiss, d'you like it?

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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 16:36:42 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Yes
Message:
I like all your stuff, John. This poem no exception. Didn't get that as a rap at first but now that you mention it. No, sure, all your stuff is cool.
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Date: Tues, Jul 31, 2001 at 15:49:27 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Re: I liked it, too!
Message:
Hi JohnT! How's the missus? Is she involved w/BigHead? Is that a personal question? You can respond by email if you prefer.
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Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 23:01:12 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Really?
Message:
Well, actually this was just a post in response to some premie's limp 'ex-premie grangster rap' on LG. Normally, as you know, I try to avoid negativity.
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