Ex-Premie Forum 6 Archive
From: Jul 14, 2001 To: Aug 07, 2001 Page: 4 of: 5


Marianne -:- Hey hamzen! -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:47:38 (EDT)

annie -:- glazed eyes -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:39:33 (EDT)
__ Scott T. -:- Re: glazed eyes -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 03:02:07 (EDT)
__ Silvia -:- glazed cold weird eyes -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 23:10:22 (EDT)

annie -:- in a state of shock -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:17:09 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Welcome Annie -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:14:03 (EDT)
__ hamzen -:- It might take a while -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:35:30 (EDT)
__ __ PatC b) -:- Hey, Trainspotter -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:03:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ hamzen -:- Excellent & great to hear from ya -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:13:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- PatC stole my head -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 21:18:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC b) -:- I did not steal your head -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 00:05:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- but I made the typo -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 00:24:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC b) -:- but I claimed the typo first -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 03:49:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC b) -:- Re: but I made the typo -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 03:47:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- you can have the head -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 12:12:21 (EDT)
__ __ annie -:- Re: It might take a while -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:48:08 (EDT)

McGruff -:- Finally had to come to this, huh? -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:12:40 (EDT)
__ janet -:- Re: Finally had to come to this, huh? -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 03:54:41 (EDT)
__ salam -:- Re: Finally had to come to this, huh? -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 00:59:23 (EDT)
__ billburke-are you ignoring what -:- could help you and seeing only what cant? [nt] -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:48:59 (EDT)
__ David -:- That wasn't posted here -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 21:47:19 (EDT)
__ Techette -:- Idiot -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 21:22:02 (EDT)
__ Francesca -:- Agreed, McGruff, to a point -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:46:25 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- You're right -- to a point -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:40:49 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- On second thought, I didn't go far enough -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:49:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ Richard II -:- Your retraction is just damage control -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 23:42:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Listen, Richard, being stupid's one thing .... -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 00:02:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Richard II -:- OF COURSE you're lying -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 02:56:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- This is so easy, you must be a premie -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 13:05:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard II -:- More back-peddling Jim. You're busted. -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 15:22:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Whatever it takes to topple maharajiji -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 21:46:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Hahaha Bin ...stick of gelignite etc NT -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 12:45:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Ever heard of circular reasoning? -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 16:43:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard II -:- Lame and irrelevant -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:08:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Ha ha ahahha! -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:10:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ hamzen -:- Legallly I'm sure you're right -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:53:08 (EDT)
__ gerry -:- Premies probably wrote those posts. -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:15:27 (EDT)
__ __ CD -:- Re: have another guess -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:10:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Re: have another guess -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:14:49 (EDT)

Joe -:- Terrible things happen when you leave M -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:59:46 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Leaving's ok IF you have another master -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 21:28:08 (EDT)
__ __ JHB -:- Sonny Corleone -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 07:05:45 (EDT)
__ hamzen -:- Are you serious Joe, of course they would IF -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:20:20 (EDT)

RichMandrake -:- Our Lord's the Superior Power In Person... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 14:47:11 (EDT)
__ PatC b) -:- Excellent post, Rich -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:46:39 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- Pat my man! How's it going? -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 01:37:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ PatC b) -:- Barry, my man! How's it going? -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 04:00:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Re: Barry, my man! How's it going? -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:35:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC;) -:- maharaji.orgy and EV's revisionism -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 20:57:35 (EDT)
__ annie -:- Re: Our Lord's the Superior Power In Person... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:45:33 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Re: Our Lord's the Superior Power In Person... -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 19:19:23 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- Hi Rich...Again... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:16:58 (EDT)
__ __ RichMandrake... -:- Thanks Cynthia..Im fine -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 20:50:46 (EDT)
__ Way -:- A question for Rich -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:52:07 (EDT)
__ __ cq -:- What was said: -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 08:03:10 (EDT)
__ __ RichMandrake -:- Sorry,Way,dont remember anything about Pia (nt) -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:52:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Sounds like it was quite a bit about Pia -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:10:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- M can't remember what he said -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 21:00:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Ha, Yeah something along those lines ! nt -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:54:52 (EDT)
__ suchabanana -:- ritual Lord samsara buttons + kernels -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:50:46 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- such found the hyphen key :) [nt] -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:20:38 (EDT)
__ la-ex -:- Gargle p-nut butter=Randy Stein? nt -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:15:00 (EDT)

Joe -:- Post from Bob, too good to lose -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:42:15 (EDT)
__ RichMandrake -:- Thanx, Bob...Refreshing Candor and Insight -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 14:07:17 (EDT)
__ gerry -:- Still Fresh, Third time Around -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:26:26 (EDT)
__ __ Joe -:- Oops..didn't see that other thread. NT -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:44:25 (EDT)
__ __ Richard -:- This one from Donner also -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:33:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ bill -:- all good reposts [nt] -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:28:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- TO: Bill... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:22:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ bill -:- where is that? [nt] -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:53:20 (EDT)

TED Farkel -:- You might be a premie if.... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:36:37 (EDT)
__ Doo-doo the Laddoo -:- Re: You might be a premie if.... -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 02:40:24 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Re: You might be a premie if.... -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 01:36:13 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Re: You might be a premie if.... -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 01:35:29 (EDT)
__ Muddy Waters -:- Re: You might be a premie if.... -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 01:24:52 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- You ever ate a Tofu Turkey -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:27:56 (EDT)
__ dv -:- 'If you almost orgasm when the housemother -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:14:23 (EDT)
__ dv -:- ' If footprints on the toilet seat -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:03:58 (EDT)
__ dv -:- 'If all your relatives avoid you,...'nt -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:58:47 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Re: You might be a premie if.... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:10:06 (EDT)
__ __ annie -:- Re: You might be a premie if.... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:52:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ hamzen -:- Re: You might be a premie if.... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:05:40 (EDT)
__ gerry -:- Re: You might be a premie if.... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:12:36 (EDT)
__ __ Kev -:- Re: You might be a premie if.... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 14:51:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- Re: You might be a premie if.... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:29:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: You might be a premie if.... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:28:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Re: You might be a premie if.... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:13:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: You might be a premie if.... -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 00:29:18 (EDT)

Bjørn E -:- Some reflections from the mountain -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:46:11 (EDT)
__ Nigel -:- EXCELLENT IDEA, BJORN! – M to share stage! -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 06:07:17 (EDT)
__ bill -:- why do you read here? [nt] -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:51:33 (EDT)
__ David -:- Who's Maharaji to talk about prayers? -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:13:52 (EDT)
__ gerry -:- You're sick -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 11:24:17 (EDT)

Ian Dury -:- Yo, Pissing Through -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 23:57:32 (EDT)

la-ex -:- About ev's 30% claim... -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:38:24 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- About Financial Secrecy -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:07:14 (EDT)

Passing Through -:- Biblical expplanation to M,K and everything -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:09:48 (EDT)
__ Abi -:- oh yes! -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 11:18:55 (EDT)
__ __ Passing Through -:- If only Abi....... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 23:13:10 (EDT)
__ __ hamzen who wished he had a jobs -:- For a dual processor G4 -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:26:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ Passing Through -:- Higher hamzen, hiigher.. -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 23:16:17 (EDT)
__ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: Biblical expplanation to M,K and everything -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 09:51:35 (EDT)
__ __ Passing Through -:- You are correct Mickey! -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 23:42:46 (EDT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- Re: Biblical expplanation to M,K and everything -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:32:00 (EDT)
__ __ Abi -:- hahaha! -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:47:51 (EDT)
__ hamzen -:- Heres an x mac flasher for ya -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 05:22:41 (EDT)
__ __ Richard -:- Yet another x mac flasher for ya -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:37:59 (EDT)
__ toby -:- forget it -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 04:59:21 (EDT)
__ __ Passing Through -:- You are a lost soul Toby! Reboot! -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 23:47:07 (EDT)
__ Barry -:- You deserve to be milked you idiot! -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:37:44 (EDT)
__ SC -:- At last...Clarity! -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:31:49 (EDT)

Passing through -:- Bobo's claim -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:53:10 (EDT)
__ Bobo -:- Re: Bobo's claim -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:27:36 (EDT)
__ __ Passing Through -:- Bobo's like Jagdeo, in a way! (nt) -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 21:56:48 (EDT)
__ Dermot -:- Someone answer Pt ..I can't be assed :) nt -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:01:29 (EDT)
__ Peg -:- I wrote to you in the 'Bob' thread [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:11:44 (EDT)
__ __ Passing Through -:- To Peg -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:42:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ JHB (EPO Webmaster) -:- Accuracy of EPO -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:56:22 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- Re: Bobo's claim -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:06:19 (EDT)
__ __ Passing Through -:- Am I miissing something Cynthia? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:18:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Am I miissing something Cynthia? -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:33:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Passing Through -:- Cynthia's wrong again! -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:07:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- The woman with so many heads! -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 14:40:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ JohnT -:- What you are missing -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 08:57:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pasing Through -:- What JohnT is missing -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:32:10 (EDT)

gerry -:- Premie delusions -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 18:19:48 (EDT)
__ Bjørn E -:- Ex-Premie delusions and a challenge -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 05:27:56 (EDT)
__ la-ex -:- there's ALWAYS a delusion promoted -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:17:20 (EDT)
__ __ Dermot -:- Brilliant posrt Gerry NT -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:42:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- Sorry Gerry..meant LA-EX :) NT -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:44:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ gerry :( -:- cant I be brilliant just once, please? please? -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:23:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Haha ..you already are Gerry (nt) -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:14:04 (EDT)
__ __ goodygoodygirl -:- It seems like that was the way it was! nt -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 23:12:14 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Such a good post, La-ex! -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:27:52 (EDT)
__ Passing Through -:- Breaking free of the Gerry cult -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:37:27 (EDT)
__ __ JohnT -:- you forgot -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 09:08:38 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Fuck off already -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:30:09 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- Potent Stuff... -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 19:43:19 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- So, here's one more indelicate question -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 19:59:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ SC -:- I'm not praying Jimbo -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:39:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Maybe wishig and hoping? And dreaming? -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 11:56:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ SC -:- Quite right Jerry -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:04:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- But what do you think, SC? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 23:03:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ SC -:- I can't speak for her! -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 00:18:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hey, let's look at this a little closer -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:36:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC b) -:- Jim, I can't believe you have the patience -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 04:13:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- I'm just about to -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:14:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- to SC -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:46:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: So, here's one more indelicate question -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:03:47 (EDT)


Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:47:38 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: All
Subject: Hey hamzen!
Message:
Read your email!

The Yank

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:39:33 (EDT)
From: annie
Email: None
To: All
Subject: glazed eyes
Message:
a fellow aspirant pointed out to me, whilst on the way back from an event not so long ago, that 'u can tell who the premies are on the train if u look at their eyes, as they have this kind of look, kind of glazed'. i took this as a good thing!!! i reasoned with myself that it must be because they had reached such a beautiful place within!!!!!!!!!!!!!aaaaggghhhh!!!!
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 03:02:07 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: Re: glazed eyes
Message:
It's either a reference to a Rembrandt technique, or a reptilian trait. But to tell the truth, I can tell premies by their bushy eyebrows and the way they wave their cigar around and flick the ash even though it hasn't got one. Or... is that one of the Mark brothers?

Scott 'What happened to all the action?' T.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 23:10:22 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: glazed cold weird eyes
Message:
Robot look. Fake smile.

Yeah, i agree: Yuck! mahariachi really makes people become really weird. Too lazy to write tonight but I wanted to agree with you in the aaaaagggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh LOL

Hang in there: There is REAL life after the cult. Welcome and take care of yourself.

THE GURU IS FAKE!

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:17:09 (EDT)
From: annie
Email: None
To: All
Subject: in a state of shock
Message:
it's old news to alot of u i'm sure feeling this that is, but i feel quite the idiot now, i am so gratefull of x-premie, if it hadn't been here i would of easily been talked out of my doubts, unfortunately by mostly v-lovely friends!!! how long does this feeling last? all the conviction i had sticking up for'm', all the bullshit heavy conversations that almost ruined my relationship, with a v loving man that has been patient enough to let me do my thing, but all the while being quietly concerned. he couldn't say anything though i would of bitten his head off!!! he just didn't know enough. what a mess!!! (only just waking up from the bull!! (in the last few weeks!!)
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:14:03 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: Welcome Annie
Message:
Thanks for sharing your story. For myself, having left M&K in 1987 and dabbled again mid-90's, I will tell you writing about yourself in relation to M&K is very powerful. You can post it, share it with your mate as a conversation starter (and how) or keep it to yourself. For myself the writing took me back to my youth, psychedelic can opener, on through receiving K in 1972 and up to the present. Sweaty palms and deep breathing were followed by a sense of exhileration. Writing a 'journey' was all catahartic and well worth the effort and led me to posting on the forum anonymously at first and then by name. All the best to you in your unfolding journey.
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:35:30 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: It might take a while
Message:
Especially if you're an old timer, and you might go through some emotional mood swings and some vulnerability.

Some people seem to go through less, but since you've obviously had doubts a while, and you've got someone who obviously cares for you, I would have thought that would make it easier.

For myself, as I started to verbalize it, especially when first here I had a lot of anger at big boy for the brainwashing, the wasted time and my own stupidity, but the sense of freedom at giving yourself permisssion to have your own head back, wonderful.

It depends a lot on where you are now, and your own sense of personal empowerment.

Even if it gets rough for a while, for feeling is totally liberating, as Anth once said, it was like getting the feelings he was looking for when he first got sucked in.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:03:30 (EDT)
From: PatC b)
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Hey, Trainspotter
Message:
You not only missed the infamous ''miraclelurker thread'' but a lot of fun too such as:


You Too can be Satgooroo

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:13:58 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: hamzen@hotmail.com
To: PatC b)
Subject: Excellent & great to hear from ya
Message:
Vvvverry nice analysis, spot on, excellent

Give us an e-mail at my new address

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 21:18:44 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: PatC stole my head
Message:
But he's cool I forgive him. OH this is off topic I think. or is it?
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 00:05:46 (EDT)
From: PatC b)
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I did not steal your head
Message:
It was originally a typo if you put a ) after a word that ends in b, you get it. Show me how to do anohter head and I'll use that instead. This one is a bit of an eminence gris anyway.
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 00:24:35 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: PatC b)
Subject: but I made the typo
Message:
on AG in one of my stories about (b)ob a play on words I was quite surprised when the head showed up after I posted. The same thing must have happened to you.
Can we share the head? I'm ok about it.
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 03:49:13 (EDT)
From: PatC b)
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: but I claimed the typo first
Message:
I don't mind sharing it at all. But so few people seem to have picked one it seems a shame not to use another one but I can't find how to do them - not even on AG the land of grinning heads. D+
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 03:47:06 (EDT)
From: PatC b)
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Re: but I made the typo
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 12:12:21 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: PatC b)
Subject: you can have the head
Message:
b) b) b)
I still have the 'experience' of the head within inside me.

selene before coffee

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:48:08 (EDT)
From: annie
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Re: It might take a while
Message:
i certainly have been experiencing a sense of freedom, although i never received 'k' it's been 10 years getting into my head,the 'm' thing, more intense in the last 8 mths. it had become such a huge part of my life, almost the most important. iknow that what i'm looking for is within my own self and that i don't need some phoney telling me i need them to get there, i shall carry on now with a stronger clearer sense of being, once i get over the humilliation!!!
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:12:40 (EDT)
From: McGruff
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Finally had to come to this, huh?
Message:
First this:
Posted by: peter
Recipient: All
Email Address: lahore69@hotmail.com
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 95; DigExt)

Subject: maharaji dead!

Message:

sadly not true but I wish someone would rid us of this tub of lard posing as a guru still after all
these years.
I got out of it in '74 after experiencing the reality of Copenhagen and seeing DLM for what it
was -a fascist organisation. Fat boy should end up the same as Hitler, someone should burn
the evil fucker.
The only comforting thought is that if bad karma does exsit mr gut bucket is in for a belly full.

Followed up by:

Posted by: dEBORAH
Recipient: peter
Email Address: Not Provided
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.73 [en] (Win98; I)

Subject: Re: maharaji dead!

Message:

One day it will be true, I hope that day comes soon!

*****
You people are really looking for trouble. This is sick.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 03:54:41 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: McGruff
Subject: Re: Finally had to come to this, huh?
Message:
what's so sick about counting on the inescapable?
or can't you countenance the fact that MJ is going to die? He is, darling. just like everyone else. Given his 30 years of smoking and cognac, I'd bet he goes from cirrhosis, lung cancer or a plane crash. or a heart attack. he's only 5 years younger than me.
no one here gets out aliiive.
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 00:59:23 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: McGruff
Subject: Re: Finally had to come to this, huh?
Message:
Well I always listen to news of g5s crashing in the hope that it's the maha's plane, what's wroung with that? I mean am a hatefull person and I follow up on my hate. Got to nurture it you know.

At least I put my money where my mouth is.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:48:59 (EDT)
From: billburke-are you ignoring what
Email: None
To: McGruff
Subject: could help you and seeing only what cant? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 21:47:19 (EDT)
From: David
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: McGruff
Subject: That wasn't posted here
Message:
It was posted on the premie forum, "Lifes (sic) Great".
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 21:22:02 (EDT)
From: Techette
Email: None
To: McGruff
Subject: Idiot
Message:
McGruff,

Your content means absolutely nothing 'technically speaking'.

You are really looking for trouble with un-authenticated posts such as this.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:46:25 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: McGruff
Subject: Agreed, McGruff, to a point
Message:
I don't wish horrible things on Maharaji, and hopefully not on anyone. I don't find hate and retribution to be productive emotions. If I still have that kind of hate in me somewhere, I would at least direct it to someone doing far worse things than Maharaji has ever done.

BUT PLEASE, don't say 'You people are really looking for trouble.' Who the HECK are 'you people'????? Two people post something you think is hateful and you come here wagging your finger at 'you people'? Please get real.

When Richard II posted a threatening hateful message on Life's Great, I did not assume that all the premies posting on Life's Great were 'you people' and that they all were organized behind Richard II. Please do not paint us all with a mile-wide brush.

And what do you mean by 'looking for trouble'??? Are you now issuing a threat???

--f

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:40:49 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: McGruff
Subject: You're right -- to a point
Message:
I just looked at this again and must say, I have to agree with you to a point. No one should be advocating, encouraging or condoning violence against anyone here. (I missed the threatening part of the post when I first commented on LG and will copy this post there immediately). I repeat: NO ONE SHOULD BE ADVOCATING, ENCOURAGING OR CONDONING VIOLENCE AGAINST ANYONE HERE.

Having said that, I'm the first to say that the day I hear that Maharaji's dead will be a happy one for me. The day I hear of ANY misfortune that comes his way will be a happy one. The only misgivings I anticipate is that little bit of concern that, unlike myself, he will have 'escaped the clutches of death'. Some guys just have all the luck, though, I guess.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:49:38 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: On second thought, I didn't go far enough
Message:
Thinking further, I think it IS wrong to talk like this here. Just wishing for someone's death, even without any further encouragement of violence or the like, is dangerous. I take it back. We shouldn't be talking like this here.

Now, having said that, I hasten to add that Maharaji, of all people, apparently has nothing to worry about, what with his ability to 'escape the clutches of death' and all that. But still ... we shouldn't talk like this.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 23:42:50 (EDT)
From: Richard II
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Your retraction is just damage control
Message:
Somewhat of a repost from LG:

I see you changed gears pretty fast once you realized the implications of your support for this peter guy. Coming up with some lame excuse that you only read the first part of peter's post on your way to work and responded without seeing the whole thing. Fuck!!! Who are uou kidding? Your character is hanging out all over the place bud and it smells like trash.

Hey Jim think about this. An apology does one of two things. It either expresses a heartfelt remorse for your actions, or it is a mechanism for saving face within the social circles you are operating. You of course did the latter, otherwise your already unethical track-record may have been unsalvageable to your supporters who have some civility, i.e., the ones you need to give your jihad any credibility. Not to mention the legal do-do you'd be up to your nuts in if someone took this kind of talk to heart and actually acted upon it.

Cunning move Jim. But you're not fooling anybody!

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 00:02:59 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Listen, Richard, being stupid's one thing ....
Message:
... but calling me a liar's another.

When I say that I read peter's post hours before I went to the office for several hours and only commented on it later, when I got home, I meant it. You're a silly little cult member who typically can't think straight and, guess what, I mean that too.

Hey, Richard, what happens to good premies when they die, huh?

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 02:56:39 (EDT)
From: Richard II
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: OF COURSE you're lying
Message:
Jim said: '...I read peter's post hours before I went to the office for several hours and only commented on it later...'

What kind of double-speak is this shit?? What does it mean and how does it exonerate you? You either aren't formulating your thoughts coherently or you are so incredibly full of shit -- or both. OF COURSE you’re back-peddling Jim and you look like a complete fool doing it.

You claim you weren‘t lying. Well I wasn't there so all we have is your word (why doesn't that instill confidence in me) but the evidence points to a different conclusion. You said in your retraction post, 'I missed the threatening part of the post when I first commented on LG'. Missed the threatening part of the post. Hmmm. How the fuck could someone who outright brags about being more intelligent than every premie on earth have 'missed the threatening part of [peter's] post' Jim? Can you tell me that? Peter's post was blatently evil!

Let's look at peter's post, shall we?

sadly not true but I wish someone would rid us of this tub of lard posing as a guru still after all these years.
I got out of it in '74 after experiencing the reality of Copenhagen and seeing DLM for what it was -a fascist organisation. Fat boy should end up the same as Hitler, someone should burn the evil fucker.
The only comforting thought is that if bad karma does exsit mr gut bucket is in for a belly full.

THE FIRST LINE SAYS HE WISHES “SOMEONE WOULD RID US OF THIS TUB OF LARD“ FOR GOD’S SAKE!! After a comparison to Hitler, he goes on to say how he wants it done: “…someone should burn the evil fucker”. So please tell us Jim what part of peter’s post seemed “reasonable” to you at the time you read it.

Go ahead talk your way out of this one. Try and salvage what little credibility you have left.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 13:05:56 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: This is so easy, you must be a premie
Message:
Listen, Richard,

I'll explain this to you step-by-step because you seem to really need the clarity that only I can give you in your life right now.

1) I read peter's post (as well as Deborah's and a few of the other follow-ups) at home before going into the office for a couple of hours. What I basically remembered it as was something along the lines of 'I wish Maharaji were dead' or 'I can't wait until Maharaji dies' or 'Won't I be happy when Maharaji's finally dead', all sentiments I agree with, by the way.

I posted my initial reply on LG ('And how about SC's post?') which read:

This guy, peter, just said that he wishes that m were dead. Hell, I do too. What's the big deal about that? It's far short of a threat, isn't it? SC, on the other hand, is yet another premie to talk about hurting me (his post 'I'll punch you in the nose'). Don't see anyone jumping up and down over that. Wonder why...

Obviously, if you just thought about it for a second, you'd see from the first line what I thought. I spelled out, for god's sake.

Then, AFTER my post, I re-read peter's post for the first time since leaving the house a few hours earlier. That's when I saw it was a bit more than what I remembered and I commented further accordingly.

Now what part of that don't you understand? (By the way, I'm enjoying watching you make a fool of yourself. Go for it!)

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 15:22:44 (EDT)
From: Richard II
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: More back-peddling Jim. You're busted.
Message:
Listen, Richard,

I'll explain this to you step-by-step because you seem to really need the clarity that only I can give you in your life right now.

1) I read peter's post (as well as Deborah's and a few of the other follow-ups) at home before going into the office for a couple of hours. What I basically remembered it as was something along the lines of 'I wish Maharaji were dead' or 'I can't wait until Maharaji dies' or 'Won't I be happy when Maharaji's finally dead', all sentiments I agree with, by the way.

I posted my initial reply on LG ('And how about SC's post?') which read:

This guy, peter, just said that he wishes that m were dead. Hell, I do too. What's the big deal about that? It's far short of a threat, isn't it? SC, on the other hand, is yet another premie to talk about hurting me (his post 'I'll punch you in the nose'). Don't see anyone jumping up and down over that. Wonder why...

Obviously, if you just thought about it for a second, you'd see from the first line what I thought. I spelled out, for god's sake.

Then, AFTER my post, I re-read peter's post for the first time since leaving the house a few hours earlier. That's when I saw it was a bit more than what I remembered and I commented further accordingly.

Now what part of that don't you understand? (By the way, I'm enjoying watching you make a fool of yourself. Go for it!)


---

I'm glad I'm entertaining you Jim.

Memory is tricky thing in a court room isn't it? If somebody wants to lie without perjuring themself they can say, 'I don't recall that', and then they are protected by the universal law of forgetfuless. I mean, who can prove if they really were forgetful or not.

The truth is you thought peter's post was okay because it echoed your own sentiments. Upon reflection you realized that for you to support those sentiments publicly was bad for optics, and put you and the forum at risk of potential legal exposure. So you retracted it. Why do I know this account is accurate Jim. Because you have as much as admitted it. Would you publicly praise someone who took it upon themself to kill Maharaji. Of course not. Would you want to shake his hand off-line. You bet.

The net of all this is you're operating a hate group, and you Jim Heller is the primary spokesperson for it. And you have shown that you will do whatever it takes to topple Maharaji. And you are not limiting yourself to mere ethical activities, as demonstrated by the events that lead to getting you kicked off of Forum 5.

So I'm glad you're enjoying our little discussions Jim. I'm only too happy to help expose the kind of person you really are, and by association the kind of group you represent.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 21:46:15 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Whatever it takes to topple maharajiji
Message:
The people who post here & the many more who lurk are no group as you well know. Just a collection of individuals who used to be or still are premies.

I guess the internet backfired on rawat. He thought at first that he could use it to collect together individual premies singing the praises etc.

He'd just plain forgotten about all the people he'd pissed off down the years. People who knew stuff about him that didn't fit with the image, & who now had a medium where they could pool their recollections & start to see the big picture.

This site & its predecessors are just the spark that will set off the stick of gelignite sticking out of the divine arsehole.

If you think that fighting his corner in cyberspace will do him any good when the shit hits the fan, then you're deluded. The truth will out.

How do you know what kind of person Jim Heller really is, you presumptious motherfucker?

What kind of person are you ?

I know who I am , someone who would rather see rawat exposed than dead. I'd settle for 2nd best though. Pat Dorrity

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 12:45:50 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Hahaha Bin ...stick of gelignite etc NT
Message:
zzz
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 16:43:42 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Ever heard of circular reasoning?
Message:
The truth is you thought peter's post was okay because it echoed your own sentiments. Upon reflection you realized that for you to support those sentiments publicly was bad for optics, and put you and the forum at risk of potential legal exposure. So you retracted it. Why do I know this account is accurate Jim. Because you have as much as admitted it. Would you publicly praise someone who took it upon themself to kill Maharaji. Of course not. Would you want to shake his hand off-line. You bet.

Classic bad thinking, Richard. Take a logic course.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:08:21 (EDT)
From: Richard II
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Lame and irrelevant
Message:
What a fucking lame retort. Give up, eh?

No matter. Any response on your part is irrelevant because the nature of your character is not dependant upon our little discussion. I think that is pretty obvious to all but a few of your more vocal cheer-leaders the kind of trash you represent.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:10:57 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Ha ha ahahha!
Message:
Richard,

You're one of the thickest premies I've seen in a long time. Thanks for the laughs.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:53:08 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Legallly I'm sure you're right
Message:
but I could well understand why someone might feel like this, went through a short bout of experiencing it myself, even though that is now long gone.

For myself, I should add that the reason I felt like this was because k worked for me bigtime, but I slowly came to realize that he had no intention of spreading this knowledge, was incompetent, corrupt, and didn't give a fuck about the human race, or the really heavy future this planet was gonna face fairly soon.
When I realized that I went through a huge amount of despair with no outlet, and although I never felt like doing it myself, I would have cheered if it had happened through someone elses actions, ideally through a car accident or a plane crash. After the rumours about gm's grace being the cause of mishlers accident & death, ironic humour blah de blah.

In case anyone attempts to misread what I am saying I should like to add that in no way do I feel the same now, nor do I wish to encourage such actions by any individual.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:15:27 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: McGruff
Subject: Premies probably wrote those posts.
Message:
They are fakes, I'll bet ya. Not even worth responding to, much less starting a new thread. I'd suggest you get a life.
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:10:08 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: have another guess
Message:
>I'll bet ya

Gerry,

You have a well documented reputation in the archives for eating your words. But you are persistent at the guessing game. And you are fair in defeat after you have had the pleasure of a bit of comotion.

CD

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:14:49 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Re: have another guess
Message:
And YOU have a well documented reputation for being an evasive weasel, don't you?
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:59:46 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Terrible things happen when you leave M
Message:
Lately, a number of things have happened that got me thinking. Maybe Maharaji was right. Maybe I HAVE become miserable since I left his lotus feet. A number of things happened lately that made me think this is possible.

1. First, well, George W. is president. I know, I know, I have been in denial about this for months, but he has gone to Europe and everything and had a photo-op with the Pope, so I guess it's true. As he continues his ALfred E. Neuman routine on global warming, and starts drilling holes in the Artic National Wildlife Refuge so we can all drive over-sized SUVs with cheap gas, the press seems to love him. I mean, the expectations on this guy are SO LOW that when he doesn't fall on his face we are supposed to be thrilled for him. He so rarely says anything approaching actual meaning, he is like Maharaji.

You can listen to a whole 45 minute speech by either man and still wonder, 'Did he say anything we should have noticed?' Both are much given to reiteration of the obvious, as though it were news, like 'The Cold War is over' for Bush, and 'In the world people are doing many different things' for Maharaji. Anyhow, I thought all this was just too awful and coincidental not to mean something.

2. Webvan went bankrupt. Now, I have to tell you, I LOVED Webvan. I LIVED for and WORSHIPPED Webvan. To order your groceries, including a vast array of organic produce over the Internet and have it delivered within a designated hour by a hunky and polite delivery man who unpacks them for you, is, well, heaven. It's bliss. A lot better than knowledge and close to sex or chocolate cake. So, I think this is punishment, maybe, for rejecting Maharaji.

3. On Saturday, the significant other and I were using his brother's big van to haul a shitload of paint cans to the toxic graveyard, when he slammed on the breaks and a half-full gallon of white paint flew forward and spattered the inside of the van. It was awful. It was hell. It was the abasence of love and peace. We finally got it cleaned up, but at the end I was ready to devote my life to my shopvac vaccum cleaner. It is an indespensible, wonderful item, and saved a lot of work.

and,

3. There is s strong rumor that the Oakland As have been sold, to, oh my god, investors from LAS VEGAS!!!!! AAAaarrrgh. This is worse than hell. This is outrageous. Could things possibly get any worse?

Maybe I should consider re-enlisting in the cult. Do you think they would have me?

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 21:28:08 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Leaving's ok IF you have another master
Message:
Joe,

None of this shit would have happened to you if you didn't just leave but instead got another Master.

Everyone needs protection

-- Sonny Corleone
Godfather II

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 07:05:45 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Sonny Corleone
Message:
Joe,

None of this shit would have happened to you if you didn't just leave but instead got another Master.

Everyone needs protection

-- Sonny Corleone
Godfather II


---

Sonny Corleone died in Godfather I and only appears in Godfather II as a small child with no speaking part.

But of course you're right, everyone needs protection. I have two dogs to protect us from attacks by Russian (or EV) bandits, who will lick them to death if they get too close.

John the well protected in the Latvian countryside who has seen the Godfather films too many times.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:20:20 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: hamzen@hotmail.com
To: Joe
Subject: Are you serious Joe, of course they would IF
Message:
you've got a few bob in the bank,

or

you'd do a bit of by the book marketing for them,

gm should really call himself no shame

As for mr bush, well is it any wonder we shake our head in disbelief over americans

Did you know 40% of the arctic circle has melted since 1950, scary shit.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 14:47:11 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Our Lord's the Superior Power In Person...
Message:
...I bow down before such a Wonderful Lord....
Those words from Arti...repeated in my Mind...as the LONG..Instrumental Version of Arti was played at Thousand Oaks...after Maha/Rawat had left the Stage...The Program had Started..with The Instrumental Version of 'Teach Me Devotion'..

It appears to me...that Instrumental Versions of these Premie Classics...give the EXACT Message Maha/Rawat..wants to Communicate...I am STILL the Lord God...as I Told you in My Previous Incarnation..(Circa 1971-1982)...HOWEVER...its a SECRET and DONT ASK...DONT TELL....

I read recently some quote that went something like: the Closer to Truth something is...the
more insidious the Lie..

There seems to be Great TRUTH in That..In Maha/Rawat's case....that is the MINDFUCK...that he uses Kernels of REAL Truth...to Trap us in his Manipulations and Lies.

If Maharaji were teaching... standing on your head an gargling peanut butter..(does anyone
remember where I got that one from?)...or if he said the purpose of life was to memorize the
New York City Phone Book...Then he would be of little Danger.

But Maharaji uses Valid and seemingly True Premises..to give Credibility to his Manipulations. He uses Valid and Valuable meditation techniques....to give credence to HIS
Validity....He uses the NATURAL Love... we have for Something Greater and Higher than ourselves...to set HIMSELF Up as That Worthy Object of that Love..

When I sit and listen to him talk about the beauty of this life ...and the importance of being in touch with it...I agree and feel aligned with those statements... Listen to your Heart ..follow your Heart....(whatever THAT Means). This is now his primary EXPLICIT message and...on the surface it is very real and credible and beautiful.

However, he uses these Credible Explicit Messages to perpetuate His Implicit messages that are the ones that are SO Damaging, So manipulative...Such a MINDFUCK.

The Instrumental Oldies but Goodies..Played in Thousand Oaks were directly yet Covertly (only We who have LIVED through Maharaji's previous Incarnation Know) implying:

Im STILL the Lord...you STILL Need me to ....experience joy...be saved...fullfill your life) SEND MONEY....only if you want to (but remember..Im the LORD and the Purpose of your life is to SURRENDER To Me)..

To those of us who have Lived Much of our Lives under the Slavery of Those Assumptions. I Request Maharaji/Rawat ..to simply and Definitively State why he once Openly Declared himself the 'Superior Power in Person' and now can only Play the Instrumental Version stating the Same Thing..

Instead of Pleasing Platitudes which you apparently fail to follow in your own life...Might you actually share with us the TRUTH....Before retiring to Your Mansion for 5 or 6 shots of Cognac and a few drags of a cigarette...Thanks For Listening....RichMandrake (formerly DepressedaboutMJ)

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:46:39 (EDT)
From: PatC b)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Excellent post, Rich
Message:
You said: ''...the Closer to Truth something is...the more insidious the Lie...''

And: ''...Maharaji uses Valid and seemingly True Premises..to give Credibility to his Manipulations. He uses Valid and Valuable meditation techniques....to give credence to HIS Validity....He uses the NATURAL Love... we have for Something Greater and Higher than ourselves...to set HIMSELF Up as That Worthy Object of that Love..

When I sit and listen to him talk about the beauty of this life ...and the importance of being in touch with it...I agree and feel aligned with those statements... Listen to your Heart ..follow your Heart....(whatever THAT Means). This is now his primary EXPLICIT message and...on the surface it is very real and credible and beautiful.

However, he uses these Credible Explicit Messages to perpetuate His Implicit messages that are the ones that are SO Damaging, So manipulative...Such a MINDFUCK.''

This is why it is so difficult for my premie friends to see how dangerous Maharajism is. In fact I only saw how harmful and poisonous it was when I withdrew my affection for him and began to look at his words dispassionately. My affection for him made me tolerate his stupidity and irresponsibility. Now I see that he is toxic.

This is probably why premies think that exes hate him and are angry. They are right.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 01:37:45 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: PatC b)
Subject: Pat my man! How's it going?
Message:
Clip me a note!
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 04:00:19 (EDT)
From: PatC b)
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Barry, my man! How's it going?
Message:
Fine thanks. How are you? I read your post about exes dissing the urug on the forum. I'm too busy at present to spend much time here but I also feel, like you, that I may be contributing to his holeyness' spin campaign by giving him ideas. He never used the word bhakti in the 30 years I have known him until a month after I posted several articles here talking about bhakti yoga.

Also to answer your question about why I still read and post here: Mostly I don't give a shit about the little drip from Hardwar, India but every now and then I get pissed off and have to say it where others can see what a mindfuck he put us through. He really is a posionous little shit - worse that tampered tylenol.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:35:05 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: PatC b)
Subject: Re: Barry, my man! How's it going?
Message:
Ha! Funny you should mention that. The old fraud was recently banging on about how one should leave the Master undefined or somesuch similar garbage. I was immediately put in mind of True Reverence, a poem which I wrote in 1993 (before I'd met MrsT) and which I reworked into specialK.

True Reverence ends with the plea that the unknowable be left alone Let 'X' stay undefined. But the Bhakti stuff is an unmistakeable giveaway. Some Master who plagiarises so!

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 20:57:35 (EDT)
From: PatC;)
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: maharaji.orgy and EV's revisionism
Message:
were all responses to EPO and what exes were saying on the forum.
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:45:33 (EDT)
From: annie
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Re: Our Lord's the Superior Power In Person...
Message:
i wish i could be so clear on all this, to help my friends to see what i am now aware of, they've been in it alot longer than i, practicing for more than 10 yrs. but what can i do? hope that they too will wake up and be free to live by their own inner power. i thank the giver(s) (whatever) for giving me what i asked for and keep asking for- to know the truth, to live this strange and lovely life to love it and learn!!! shame i'm left feelin' a bit f'd up from the 'm' experience though!!!
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 19:19:23 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: Re: Our Lord's the Superior Power In Person...
Message:
Annie, I want to say that I am glad you are here because very few of us are 'new timers'. You didn't experience the OLD MAHA, and thus the ashrams, early x-rated services, LORD shit.

But you do have an illuminting advantage of what Maha has been to since 1990-91. I would love to hear more about how you were attracted to Maha. How did you come to Know about the BigHead. What did premies tell you about Knowledge or what did they Not tell you?

What have the instructors (many of us know them as initiators). What do you think about the devotional songs? How did you rationalize that?

You have as much to contribute as you have to learn.

I am only here for two months. I know how hard to humiliation is to digest? It's not like anything any other normal human experiences. If you're sad, how do you tell your family and friends?

You can tell someone you're devastated because someone died, or did something horrid to someone, but how do you explain you realized you were going to hell in a hand-basket while believing you were on the peacetrain. Yeessh....Get's better Annie, don't worry about that!

I am so glad to hear your boyfirend held by you and vice versa. Many of the old timers are not so lucky.

Many were forged away from family and friends. A lot of un-changeable and too late to reconcile damage. Many decades of devotion, loss of career, money, normal adult sexuality and relationships.

Be happy that you did not experience or cause as much external damage as some others. THere is definitely a lot of reason to be disappointed. Take care Annie. Post anytime you need someone to talk to you. You can ask for email addresses as well.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:16:58 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Hi Rich...Again...
Message:
I get the subscription to EV's newsletter and the text from his speaks was there, in TWO parts!

I is obvious to me now that he needs to have premies believe he is the lord, capital 'L' because otherwise he'd never make any money, and he'd never get the attention he needs, narcissistic as he is.

Those songs are so obviously rigged to yank out the hearts of premies who have doubts. He chastises premies for having doubts--about anything!

He is such a slippery character. Was it really a 'surprise program?' That's how it's stated on the newsletter.

I think he's very cruel. He will go to any lengths to hurt people, especially those of us who have seen through his rhetorical speeches, his filthy rich lifestyle, and his apparent need for attention and devotion from people.

I hope you're okay. Why did you go? Can you describe his tone of voice. Just from reading the text I can just imagine that he was 'very powerful' as we used to say....

I hope you're okay. Hang in there. It's okay to doubt him. And it's perfectly okay to be angry, too.

What a creepy thing he is...how he uses people to satisfy his own desires and turns around and tells folks there is nothing to desire but K and the Master!

Take care,
Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 20:50:46 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake...
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Thanks Cynthia..Im fine
Message:
thanks for your concern...Im Fine...a little Depressed about the whole thing Still...and Still sorting out HOW I could have kept this Guy on My Cosmological Throne For So long???....yes it is insidious...and reading the text just provided of his Speech at Thousand Oaks...VERY Insidious....Talking about the Beauty and Importance of this Life...OF COURSE Im Going to Agree with Him....But Apparently hes NOT The Lord...Thus....his Words of truth.... only cover his deceit...VERY Disappointing..VERY Disillusioning...VERY Sad....

But I have LOTS to Be Grateful for in My Life...and whatever we do...or find out...(and again, I agree with Maha/Rawats words)..its very Important to Be Grateful...hope you are well also, Cynthia...RichMandrake

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:52:07 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: A question for Rich
Message:
Thanks, Rich, for your post.

You make an important point. Sometimes premies express surprise that exes could have any objections to what Maharaji says, since his teaching is so basically truthful in some ways. But the objection is that Rawat takes credit for providing these basic truths to people through his gift of Knowledge. And that is a very big lie.

I was away on vacation for a week. When I read the Forum upon my return, I learned that Pia had died, that her death was described as peaceful and focused, and that Rawat had attended a secret, 'surprise' program that was entirely unannounced on the Internet, and that Rawat had mentioned Pia at that program and he made some sort of claim that Pia's peace was due to her having faithfully accepted his gift of Knowledge.

I have felt anger toward Rawat in the past, but this news disgusted me thoroughly. How can he exploit people like that? How can he take credit for someone's peace? And how can people listen to that crap and not protest?

I gather from your post, Rich, that you attended the Thousand Oaks program. Is that correct? Do you remember what Rawat said about Pia? If so, I would really appreciate it if you could paraphrase what he said about her.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 08:03:10 (EDT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: What was said:
Message:
Maharaji in Thousand Oaks, California, 31st July 2001 (edited and
abridged)

'I'm glad this could come together so we
can talk about that essential thing, which
begins with understanding, first of all, that
this is an incredibly precious life. Its
preciousness is beyond belief, beyond
imagination. What it means to have this
breath come in and fill you is really
everything to you. I have said this for
many, many years and people have argued
with me, 'No, that's not it. There are all
these other things in this world.' And I
have sat there and listened, and thought,
'You have no clue. You're alive, and you're
not accepting it. Because really, if you
did, it would change everything.'

First, there would be no room for confusion. It would not be an
acceptable thing, it would not be going to happen. Sorrow? No.
Doubts? Forget it. Clarity is what you would home in on every
single day, because there would be no compromises - nothing
would be compromised. People look for truth as though it were
something mysterious. People look for God as though God were
something mysterious. But take away the confusion, take away
the doubts, take away all those ideas that we fill ourselves with
in lieu of reality, and believe me, what you will find standing in
front of you is the most incredible truth. What you will find
standing in front of you is the most incredible God. What you will
find standing in front of you is the most incredible reality. And it
will be a simple reality. It will not be a reality that is complicated,
that is hard to understand. It will not be a feeling that is so far
removed from you that more concepts and ideas have to be
brought in to be able to accept it. It would be pleasant. When
you felt it, it would make you happy. It would bring peace in your
life. It would fill you with tranquility. You would be coming home.
Your journey would be finished.

Coming home

This is what's so funny about coming home.
Wherever you go, you do the same things you
would if you were home: you sleep, you use the
bathroom, you get up, you eat - whatever it is
that you do. But you know that you have to go
on, you will move on, you won't be staying there.
And when you come home, maybe nothing is
different, but you know you can stay here.
Maybe that won't even happen. Maybe you will
move on, maybe you'll stay home for two weeks,
three weeks, four weeks, tops, and then move
on, but you know that if you wanted to, you
could stay and it would be okay. That is coming
home. That is what this breath is about, that's
what this life is about. It's not about those
incredible journeys out there. It is not about
searching. I'm sorry. It is not. And the reason why I say I am
sorry is because so many people believe that it must be all about
searching.

This afternoon as I got in the car, I was handed a note. And the
note said somebody I knew very well has passed away. This
person had been in touch, and what this person was saying was
so beautiful: 'I have this gift of Knowledge. It keeps me clear.
And I would have lived my life so differently if I had known then
what I know now.' I know everybody has their problems,
everybody has their ups and downs, everybody has their goods
and bads, everybody has their frustrations, everybody has all
that good stuff going on. But put yourselves in the shoes of this
person: 'I would live my life entirely differently if I had known
what I know now.'

You see, it is not about looking under rocks or on top of rocks, or
climbing mountains. It is the effort of taking away that which
does not belong. Don't you know that that's what that process of
making a statue from a rock is - chipping away at that that
doesn't belong? And all of a sudden, what emerges is emotion, is
beautiful poetry, is beautiful art. It's a beautiful understanding
that a rock that you may have hurtled, that you may have looked
at and said, 'Ah, a rock,' all of a sudden, when all that that didn't
belong was chipped away, people stand in front of it and say,
'Isn't that beautiful.'

Tranformation

It is indeed a very powerful
transformation. To be transformed in this
lifetime. To be in that place where all that
that doesn't belong has been taken away.
Each one of you has that potential. Each
one of you has that possibility knocking at
your door every time you take a breath.
That breath is a knock on your door. A
loud bang if you can hear it, going,
'Awaken, arise, understand, accept,
admire and feel this incredible feeling of
freedom.'

So many people have a particular idea
about freedom. 'It is so that I can do whatever I want, and be
free to go wherever I want.' You don't want to go everywhere,
believe me. Freedom is not taking a walk on the beach and finding
a big pile of something and saying, 'See, I want to prove I'm free.
I'm going to walk right through it.' No. That's not freedom. Don't
you understand? Freedom is not rules. Freedom is not an idea.
Freedom is a feeling which emanates from within. That's real
freedom.

I see people who call themselves free yet are totally entrapped,
encased with their ideas of what this is all about, losing every
precious moment of this breath as it comes, as this possibility
slips by. This is about remembering your beginnings. This is not
about criticism. This is not about right and wrong. No. This is not
about debate. Forget it. This is not about people coming together
and saying, 'Well, let's define what truth is, and write it down so
we can pass it on to people so they'll have an easier time of
figuring out what truth is.' This is not about trying to tell people
what to do, this is about finding out that feeling within, that
truth within, that freedom within. There are feelings that come
from within that are so powerful, so clear, so real.

Just because you're not in a jail doesn't mean you are free.
That's not what it's about. Freedom starts to come when you're
not a slave to those doubts. So many people say they have
doubts. Doubt about what? What do you doubt? 'Oh, I don't
know what's going to happen to me tomorrow.' But nobody does.
Knowing what's going to happen tomorrow is not what clarity
means.

A long time ago, to this day, there was a big gathering of people
and they were crying because my father had passed away and
nobody knew what was going to happen. And I came on and said,
'Don't cry. That's not what you've been shown. That's not what
you've been told. True, this is a very painful situation, but what
you've been shown is incredible joy inside. Don't you know that's
what it's all about?' I don't exactly remember all the words that I
said. I was very young, but I could see that people didn't know,
and people needed to be reminded of that one thing that makes a
difference in our lives. Everything is so much the same now.

Culture shock

Coming to America after being in Europe for
almost seven weeks, it was a shock. It was a
culture shock. I went to a supermarket one day
and I just couldn't believe it. Food, food, food,
food, food. And then, you turn on the television
and in America it's, 'Oh, you should lose weight,
you are guaranteed to lose 10 pounds, you are
guaranteed to lose this, you are guaranteed to
lose that.' And then you walk into the
supermarket, and everything there is guaranteed
to gain weight for you, you'll lose nothing.

You turn on the TV news, and then they say,
'Now we will discuss what happened.' Well, what
do you mean, 'discuss what happened?' Don't
people know what happened, didn't they watch the news? People
say. 'Be practical. You need to be informed.' You're talking about
a person who's got breath coming in and out of him, he's not
informed about that breath, yet he wants to be informed about
the world? That's like trying to teach a shark how to brush its
teeth. How are you going to do that, when the fundamentals
have been forgotten?

Who in this room was not a child once? What was it like to be
alive, to see, and not know? And it didn't matter. Certain things
did matter, and those were the important things. But what is
important now? The grinding stone turns day and night. Forgotten
are the essentials: the heartfelt feeling of what it is to welcome
today, not knowing whether it will be a good day or a bad day,
and it doesn't matter because if I breathe today, it is a good day.
If I am alive today, it is a good day. And if I could capture today,
today would be a day where I would have gained something,
rather than sat by and watch it pass from morning until evening.

Every six months I have to spend four or five days on a refresher,
to keep my training up. The first day comes, you sit down, you
look at your watch and then the next thing you know, the day
has gone by and even though you're tired, you're happy. You go
home, and say, 'Four days left.' But then it hit me: these are
days of this existence. These are days that I have, and even
though I have to go through this, I can't just throw away my
days.

But how many people are there who are like that? They start off
on Monday, waiting all week, and then, ah! TGIF - Thank
goodness it's Friday, because now, I don't have to go and work
for two more days. And then, 'Ah, my God, here comes Monday
again!' Waiting. Waiting. Waiting. And then, that day arrives
when the message comes, 'Okay, pack up. And bring with you
what is really yours. What is not yours, you may not bring.'

What is yours?

So, what is really yours? How much do we hang
onto our ideas of how everything works, only for
them to be blown away, and for us to readjust,
to try another set of ideas, then another? And
you consider yourself free? No. This is worse
than being a prisoner. At least if you release a
prisoner, he knows exactly where the front
entrance is. He heads out the door, and he's out
of there; the last place he wants to be is this
prison. But we've become these prisoners who
are escorted out, who are purposely shoved out
of the prison, and we're crying, 'No, don't!' And
the first opportunity we find, we turn right
around and run back in. 'Please keep me here;
don't let me go.'

What would it really be like if I became free? What would it really
be like if I were not subject to doubts? What would it really be
like if I were not subject to pain? I'm not saying pain won't come,
but not to be subject to it. What would it be like to be free? To
understand, to walk with pride every day, not because of your
accomplishments, but proud that you're alive. What would it be
like if human beings could take pride in being alive? What would it
be like if being alive meant something, if existence meant
something, if life wasn't a struggle but was real. That does not
happen if you move into the middle of a jungle. It doesn't happen
if you move your house next to a beautiful flowing river and think,
'Ah, this is it.'

No. My Master has given me something so precious that in the
middle of chaos, I have seen tranquility. In the middle of the
storm, I have seen incredible calmness. In the middle of a
hurricane is the eye, where it's calm, it's clear, the sun shines,
it's serene, and there is no wind. In the heart of it all, from where
everything revolves, it's so different. And in the middle of you, in
the middle of your little hurricane, there is incredible serenity.
Something is so calm, something is so right, something is so free.
All you have to do is stay there, and as long as you are there,
this is what it will be like. So far I can keep my eyes on that
track, on that which beckons me every day, so far as I can keep
this vision on that grace, on that beauty, it's okay. But little do I
realize the speed that I move at. In a fraction of a second it has
gone from my sight and no longer do I realize where I am.

We need to be free

Practice Knowledge, because
nothing else puts you in touch
with that simplicity inside of you,
puts you in touch with who you
really are, and remind you in the
most glorious way of your
presence, of this tranquility, and
of this beauty that you need to
feel every single day.

What do accomplishments mean? Memories - that's all. I lead a
very interesting life, but life is not about that, it's about being
free - free from those things that enslave me, that create
misunderstanding within me so that I forget what it means to be
alive. Then that's not freedom, and I want to be free.

This is the possibility I present to you again and again, and again.
Those of you who already have Knowledge, I present to you the
possibility again by reminding you why you came to Knowledge.
So many people say to me, 'No, that's not why I came to
Knowledge.' I listen politely, but what I'm actually thinking is,
'You have no clue, because it is the heart that made you walk
those few steps.'

Not all walks are simple. It is not just a matter of raising your foot
and placing it back down again. Some of those steps have taken
you to thresholds which you could only dream about. Those
thresholds do exist, and they come again, and again and again.
You've just got to pay attention in life, because one, it moves
too fast, and two, it doesn't have any throttles to slow it down.
It just moves at a preset speed. You've really got to pay
attention.

This is not about trying to convince somebody, this is not about
an argument. This is not about trying to open somebody's
cranium and pouring a doctrine in there. It is about getting a
person to light the candle in their own place because they
recognize the need for that light, they have found out where the
candle is, and they have learned how to strike the match. And
now, with Knowledge in place, they, too, can light that little
candle within themselves.

For me, simplicity is beautiful. I love simplicity.
When things get complicated, something inside of
me says, 'Simple is beautiful.' Because that's
what it is about. What is the strength? There is
Knowledge, that is an incredible strength. There
is the Master, there is an incredible strength.
And there is always the thirst and that's an
incredible strength. Put those three together,
and you've got magic, real magic. And that's
what happens in so many places around the
world. There never comes a day where I feel, 'I
have done enough of that.' No, there is never
enough of it. You do it as long as you are alive -
every day, hopefully, touching someone's life,
bringing this possibility of Knowledge, and
reminding those who have it. The Master's effort
is tireless. It's wonderful. Whoever needs it will
be reminded again, and again, and again.

People, like this person, will be sadly missed, but on the other
hand, there were no illusions or delusions. It's clear. And to have
left with a joy in the heart, rather than an emptiness, and not to
be complaining but even in that moment to be extremely proud
because you have learned something - what a difference, what
an incredible difference. They have that saying, 'What a
difference a day makes.' But what a difference Knowledge makes,
and what a difference the Master makes, in this life.

So, I'm glad we had this surprise event. It has been a beautiful
opportunity and a reminder once again to just take full advantage
of what you have been given. Feel the freedom from your heart
and really be free.'

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:52:33 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Sorry,Way,dont remember anything about Pia (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:10:45 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Sounds like it was quite a bit about Pia
Message:
Here's some of the ELK summary of what the Master said in Thousand Oaks. It sounds like he was referring to Pia, doesn't it?:

A long time ago, on this day, there was a big gathering of people... and they were crying because my father had passed away. And nobody knew what was going to happen. I came on and I said: 'Don't cry. That's not what you've been shown. That's not what you've been told. True, this is a very awkward situation and a very painful situation but what you've been shown is incredible joy inside. Don't you know that's what it's all about.'

'I don't even exactly remember all the words that I said. I was very young, but I could see that people didn't know, and people needed to be reminded of that one thing that makes a difference in our lives.'

Also, it's funny how he can't 'even exactly remember all the words' he said. God, I saw 'Satguru Has Come' enough that I'll never forget them. Wasn't it something along the lines of:

Dear Children of God,

Why are you weeping? Don't you know that the Perfect Master never dies.....

Something along those lines, wasn't it? Sure was a lot more than 'there's something beautiful you've been shown'

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 21:00:14 (EDT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: M can't remember what he said
Message:
when his pa kicked the bucket?

He said: ''Why are you weeping? Don't you know that the Perfect Master never dies. He is standing here before you now. Bow down, worship and adore.''

That's in writing somewhere maybe in ''Who is G M?''

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:54:52 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Ha, Yeah something along those lines ! nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:50:46 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: ritual Lord samsara buttons + kernels
Message:
premie lobotomy:disconnect brain/heart, demonize brain/analytical thinking, implant Lord/Master and cult concept buttons, program and reinforce m. cult concept buttons, mix charismatic enlightened despot fuhrer massa divine right of self-proclaimed great-king message with basic meditation techs and universal platitudes and truisms.

shakedown/solicit money, solicity money-gratitude, money-participation, money-estates, money-projects, money/jets, money-land, money/luxury cars, money-programs, money-darshan, money/Rolexes, money-sales, money/extended family, money-contributions, money/yachts, money-paychecks, money/junkets, money-premie businesses, money/bank, money-big gifts, money/Seva, money-good seats, money-Presidential suites, money-expenses, money-Mercedes, expenses, custom gold toilet seat, expenses, expensive expenses, ex-p, ex...

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 19:20:38 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: such found the hyphen key :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:15:00 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Gargle p-nut butter=Randy Stein? nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:42:15 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Post from Bob, too good to lose
Message:
Bob posted this down below, and I thought it was excellent, both in the way it discusses Maharaji's behavior, but also because it displays the thoughtful analysis Bob went through in figuring out what M was doing and what his motivations are. Thanks again, Bob

David, Are you an ex-premie now? I only recently found this website and have read only a smattering of postings so far, but I do remember seeing several (I don't recall their dates) which implied that you were still a coordinator somewhere and givin' 'em hell on the lord's behalf. I was in the Chicago Ashram when you came there after 'Millenium' in 1973. Whether you are an ex now or not, I sincerely hope you no longer traffic in humiliation for the LOVE of it!

One of the reasons I left M in 1986 was due to my recognizing how he used to put people around him down constantly, in subtle and not-so-subtle ways. I used to go to the Residence every day for several years, and was around him fairly often. I don't ever ONCE remember him complimenting or praising anyone.

One time there was a problem with his Mercedes that even Beverly Hills Mercedes couldn't fix. They hadn't a clue as to what was wrong even. So M was stuck. I had an idea what the problem was, but I knew it would be difficult and time consuming to fix. But I loved the guy and wanted his car to work, and he said to go ahead and try. I ended up pulling the entire dashboard out of his $80,000 Mercedes, fixed the problem the experts couldn't fix, and put it all back together again perfectly. This took days, and my body was sore from lying on his floorboards the whole time. Do you think he was grateful? Do you think he'd say 'gee,thanks, I can drive my favorite car now'? No way. All he did was mention the 'mess' I'd made while the work was in progress.(the car and garage were IMMACULATE when the job was FINISHED, however.) The tone of his half-humorous put-down was hurtful to me only because, I then realized, that I felt he was spiritually superior to me.

Then I recalled that he almost ALWAYS put me and everybody else down after they would make heroic efforts on his behalf. I began to see that this was his way of keeping his devotees in their place....always doubting themselves and therefore needing him in their lives. When I saw through this ploy of his, I began to lose my respect for him. The final straw came when I was invited to his new year's party at the residence a few months later. There in his living room, in the presence of about 35 people, he got so drunk that he could barely stand. He would make incoherent statements and slur his words in the process. It seems everyone but me got a great kick out of this! But I was frankly disgusted. This guy wasn't fit to lead his own life, let alone the lives of countless sincere people around the world. That's when I quit for good. I continued to do 'service' at 'the residence', but only if they paid me $25 an hour.....Which they did for over a year, till they could find someone knowledgable enough to handle what I used to do (which wasn't automobiles, by the way).

Since leaving him my life is much more fun, free, and spiritual, as WELL as more worldly. I've come to see that there are no mistakes in the universe, and that the time I spent following this guru was NOT wasted, nor is he a 'badguy'. We all do the best we can and we all (including M) learn at our own pace. I do not envy M his opulent lifestyle, because I feel it is a SUBSTITUTE for real happiness. I sense that M is in pain, and has low self-esteem. A person who is experiencing the spiritual bliss of being alive to the moment has zero interest in putting another person down, don't you think, David?
And to want to HUMILIATE another? I can only say that, for myself, I'd have to be living in my own private self-created HELL to want to do something like that now. So, in many ways, I have compassion for M and what he must be going through, opulent lifestyle notwithstanding. He seems to have inherited the role of Perfect Charlatan from his dad and is lost in an delusional world precipitated by this form of child abuse he suffered early on. And my worldview, when I came to him in 1972, had me looking (unconsciously) for a loving father-figure, to heal my very deep father-wound. Together M and I made a perfect match to fulfill one another's fantasies. I needed a leader and he needed to be one......and in both of us, our needs were rooted in self-doubt and low self-esteem. My lesson in all this is to take responsibility for my life and what I experience in it. This makes me no longer a victim in any circumstance(since I'M the one who defines what meaning that circumstance has for me), and to not blame others, because doing so defines me as a powerless victim (which was why I came to M in the first place). So that was a great lesson to learn and it only took 14 years....some people may never learn it in a lifetime!

THIS IS A GREAT WEBSITE, ISN'T IT?
Love, Bob

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 14:07:17 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Thanx, Bob...Refreshing Candor and Insight
Message:
A Very thoughtful and valuable Post...Whoever you are, Bob, Please share more. Its Valuable to me to hear from people like yourself...who have been close to Maharaji and dont have an Axe to grind...
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:26:26 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Still Fresh, Third time Around
Message:
Yeah Joe, this is a keeper. It should go into the ***Best of*** file if we still have that.

Someone else reposted it also, but with all the premie spam we've been getting here lately, the really good stuff gets obscured and I think it's a great idea to repost repeatedly.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:44:25 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Oops..didn't see that other thread. NT
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:33:30 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: This one from Donner also
Message:
Michael Donner's post from the Say Something Positive about M Contest thread

maharaji was there for me when i was looking for a guru to devote myself to. when i was in that stage of my life when i was still carrying lots of devotee energy and looking for some place to put it. he was there for me when i needed that other half of the co-dependent story of guru devotee. he was there for me when i needed someone to give my power away to, to praise and glorify when i was still afraid to give myself the credit i deserved for my own happiness and accomplishments. he was there for me in my idealism for 'world peace' by offering some vague plan to bring that about that i could join in with and thus continue to play out my misguided idealism of one world leader bringing us all to the golden land like some pied piper. i called out to someone like that to fill the void in my life and he filled the role perfectly for that time.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:28:48 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: all good reposts [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:22:17 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: TO: Bill...
Message:
How are you? You leave a lot of nt posts (I'm not complaining)!

If you have a chance, read the EV newsletter for today....it's a real whopper of a sadsong. And he talks about not doubting and not debating and all the stuff we've been doing here....

I guess he wants us all to come back! FAT CHANCE!

Much Love to you and yours,
Cynthai

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:53:20 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: where is that? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:36:37 (EDT)
From: TED Farkel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: You might be a premie if....
Message:
Now folks, I know that Jeff Foxworthy made millions off of his 'You might be a redneck if...' stuff, so I'm just wonderin if any of you exes or premies might have somethin to add to ole TED'S post here...

We'll be reading your posts each night down here at the TRAC Center in Alabama, as kind of a 'pre-game warmup' before Dave Smith heavies us out with some good ole time religion and then some videos instructin us all to breathe and be greatful.....

I'll start it off.....

You might be a premie if.....

your idea of a great kiss, is slobberin over some fat alcoholic's feet, after waiting on line for hours and puttin some money in an envelope for him.....

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 02:40:24 (EDT)
From: Doo-doo the Laddoo
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: Re: You might be a premie if....
Message:
1. Ghee is still on your shopping list.
2. M's drinking, drugging, womanizing, and ostentatious display of extortionate wealth is all to blow away your concepts about what being LORD is all about.
3. Your homepage is the Visions Catalogue.
4. Your computer 'wallpaper' features Capt'n Rawat in one of his various disguises.
5. You figure that DVD and satellite technology was really created for Prem-Pal-o-vision.
6. David Smith is sane.
7. Your tongue is permanently wedged somewhere between your tonsils and your adam's apple.
8. You haven't spoken since m told you no chit chat.
9. You figure that m is permanently in god consciousness even when in a drunken stupor.
10. You figure that only by m's grace can you realize knowledge.
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 01:36:13 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: Re: You might be a premie if....
Message:
You don't want anyone to know who you pray to.
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 01:35:29 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: Re: You might be a premie if....
Message:
You can't understand for the life in you how anyone could be so stupid as to follow Satpal. I mean, really!
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 01:24:52 (EDT)
From: Muddy Waters
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: Re: You might be a premie if....
Message:
If you still keep that little jar of charanamrit in your fridge even though stringy lifeforms have been cultivating over the last twenty five years.
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:27:56 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: You ever ate a Tofu Turkey
Message:
Know what a baragon is.

Think M is a poet.

Believe donations go toward spreading K.

Believe M or EV is ever in financial trouble and the fundraising is NOT for a new plane or yacht.

Defend M's behavior by saying 'Hey, no big deal - even Clinton got a blow job in the White House' as if that means anything about M's avoidance of responsibility.

Answer any even slightly confronting question with 'It's my experience and the rest doesn't matter!'

Believe that M hears your prayers.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:14:23 (EDT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: 'If you almost orgasm when the housemother
Message:
serves Loma Linda vegie hotdogs for dinner, Ya maht be a premie!'
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:03:58 (EDT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: ' If footprints on the toilet seat
Message:
don't freak you out, ya maht be a premie.'
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:58:47 (EDT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: 'If all your relatives avoid you,...'nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:10:06 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: Re: You might be a premie if....
Message:
If you think that everything that goes your way is by:

THE GRACE OF THE LIVING LORD

And that, everything that doesn't go your way

Is a peronal lila of Guru MahaPrickShitForFuckingBrains

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:52:20 (EDT)
From: annie
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: You might be a premie if....
Message:
people get so intense and over exited on here, i don't know which is worse, i feel..mmm...as bad as each other really.... that being:-x-premies with attitude and that scary 'ev' and 'm' it makes me sad
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:05:40 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: Re: You might be a premie if....
Message:
You really ought to read the background material from the seventies, especially re the ashrams,
imagine going through that, staying around through all big boys lies and revisionism and then finally seeing through him after 30 years.

If you're the Annie who posted above about humiliation over a ten year period, imagine the scenario I've just mentioned, need I say more?

Sad it certainly is.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:12:36 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: Re: You might be a premie if....
Message:
You might be a premie if every time you open your mouth to talk about Maharaji, your brain falls out.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
splat!
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 14:51:28 (EDT)
From: Kev
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: You might be a premie if....
Message:
You might be a premie if someone asks you what Elan Vital is you say 'their not a religion or a cult and never have been and as for that Maharaji fellow; why I would never dream of calling him Lord and never have done.'
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:29:12 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Kev
Subject: Re: You might be a premie if....
Message:
You might be a premie if you say Maharaji is just a very special, loving human being and then at 'events' whisper along to the instrumental Arti, teach me devotion etc.
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:28:25 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Re: You might be a premie if....
Message:
You still have an altar set up in your bedroom with pix from age 13 through 40-something.

That includes m in Krishna outfits with crowns!

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:13:56 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: You might be a premie if....
Message:
You've read all the info never before available to you until you discovered the EPO site, but still believe that the financially challenged Mr.Rawat is satguru greater than god.
[ Page Link ]
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 00:29:18 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Re: You might be a premie if....
Message:
EV sends out an urgent fundraising request, and you debate whether you should spend your limited funds on some important family necessity or donate it to EV.

It doesn't matter what choice you make. It's the simple fact that you weighed your family needs against Maharaji.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:46:11 (EDT)
From: Bjørn E
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Some reflections from the mountain
Message:
Hi
I am sitting on the terrace at my cottage “Bjørnebu” (http://booking.skiinfo.no/pres/pres.cgi?ID=356&Mal=Norefjell) in the mountain. My cottage is not fancy, but it is my favourite place. The sun has set, the air is fresh and clear and I am burning some woods in the outdoor fireplace. I have just eaten a nice dinner and it dawns on me I am very privileged. I probably have more things than most people dream of, yet I know it doesn’t mean a thing unless you feel some inner fulfilment. I am alone, but not lonely, and I am grateful for the gift of being able to appreciate Life.

My thoughts go to the video I just saw with M. and I am amazed of his clarity, his simplicity and yet profoundness. I fantasized about what an extraordinary person he is and if I try to imagine any living person next to him on the stage, they will look like pale shadows compared to his radiance.

Below me I can see the lakes and the trees are saturated in their greenness, and you can almost see the autumn is soon coming. M talked recently about that also human beings goes through and I feel my “winter” has been long and dark. But I feel the spring is coming and I kind of hope that when next “winter” will set in onto my inner landscape, I will not place myself as far “north” in my inner landscape where the sun hardly shines.

I start to reflect about a documentary I just watched. I was about this American teacher, a real tough woman who had courses for adults about discrimination. In the beginning of her career, she made an experiment with her pupils. They were only about 10 year old or so, and in her experiment she put collars on them. Half of the kids got brown collars and the rest got white. The latter was called the “whiteys” and the ones with the brown collars were called “brownies”. She told them the withies ere really smart, and the brownies were not so smart. Then she teaches class as usual, but became quite harsh towards the brownie, and very kind to the whiteys.
Soon the kids started to behave strange. Friendship was created within each group, and the whities started to abuse the brownies both mentally and physically. They started to say “we” and “them,” Under this experiment the whites improved their scores in the school and was quite happy and really felt superior.
For the brownies the story was completely different and their results in school dropped dramatically.
After some time, the teacher changed the whole thing. She admitted she had made a mistake and that the brownies should have the white collars and the whities the brown ones. So they changed.
No the whole scene changed. The “new” whities felt superior and behaved just like the “old “whities” had done. And the grades also completely changed.
Finally the teacher told the kids this was just an experiment to show how discrimination works in reality.
One might criticise the teacher, but at the and of the program the kids who now had grown up, were interviewed and the had done great in life and was really grateful for the lesson their teacher had given them and they said this experiment had changed their life and they now were able to relate in a different way in human relationship.

I consider this story to be quite similar to what has happened at the ex/ or premie forums. I consider this as big sandcases. First there was only one sand case the ex-premie forum. They even had a guard and though there were spectators, only very few participated. The exes outnumbered the PWKs and if someone did not conform to the ideas or expressed himself or herself clearly, they were firmly thrown out of the sand case.
Now we have 2 forums and the kicking out of the sand case almost doesn’t happen any more and because of more “equity of arms” the exes no longer feels superior. The whole case IMO shows that discrimination starts with “ “we” and “them” and I don’t like that.

I also don’t like when someone talks bad about a friend of mine. I consider M to be a dear friend, and whatever other people might think, I am proud of him. I think he is the most amazing person on this planet. What or who he is, I don’t know, but I don’t really care. What I care about is that he teaches or gives me something of extremely value to me.

I think sometimes about exes and I remember a few times when my doubts came with full strength. Once I attended the Guru Puja in London in 73. Before that program I had worked really hard, and I watched the darshan. Everyone except me got blessed out, and I started to feel depressed. I remember I sat on the bus back to the camp where we lived in tents, and I was feeling very down. I kind of prayed, pleas show me, because if I don’t feel a thing I can’t go on with this. So with my head down I walked towards the campsite and then I discovered that there was a large gathering. I asked someone and they said M is going to come to stage. He came and someone said that M wanted all the “general secretaries” to come to the stage. My heart jumped and I started to walk through the crowd. Halfway through, M smiled and pointed towards me and asked “Are you a general secretary.” I said yes, and everything was completely OK.
While I am sitting here and watching the stars coming, my phone beeps. I’ve got a message from my daughter Nina and. When I read, tears come into my eyes. She has returned from her vacation in Mexico, and I have sent her the document I have written for the hearing in the parliament about the improved rights of victims of violence, rape and paedophile. Nina writes (translated). Hi dad. I am pr0oud of you because you are a wise and good person. I am sorry for all the injustice you have done though and that I haven’t been able to support you more than I have. Good work, Night Nina”.
I have 2 kids and they are both my pride. Nina is only 24 and already product group manager in the biggest publishing company in Norway.

It is time to go to bed. I think about prayers, and what M talked about at a satellite event, that people’s prayers were like a shopping list. It is like “give me this, give me that”. He explained that even to say “thank you” is a better prayer. (Once he said, any thank you will be received). So going to bed, I think, I wish that everyday I woke up, where would be a “thank you” feeling in my heart, and the same every night I go to bed.

So I am just home from “Bjørnebu” to pick up my wife for the weekend. I still think Life is great, when you really look into it-

Have a nice weekend.

Bjørn E

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 06:07:17 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Bjørn E
Subject: EXCELLENT IDEA, BJORN! – M to share stage!
Message:
Bjorn, you wrote:

My thoughts go to the video I just saw with M. and I am amazed of his clarity, his simplicity and yet profoundness. I fantasized about what an extraordinary person he is and if I try to imagine any living person next to him on the stage, they will look like pale shadows compared to his radiance.

Yup, Fabulous fantasy, Bjorn. What, indeed, would it be like if Maharaji shared the stage? (‘Mr Immortal takes on Mr/Ms Mere Mortal for a bash in the bush’.) I have often wondered the same. I for one will volunteer to share the spotlight. So would many others here love that precious opportunity to argue, question and challenge openly, entertain and radiate; offer alternate perspectives, perhaps… I too am a ‘teacher’, you see. So me and Mergie might trade ‘teachings’. We could take turns – maybe five minute time-slots – in which we shared our respective cosmologies, philosophies and neurobiologies, whatever. Which of us best understands the cosmos, knows the coolest jokes or can churn out the most ‘meaningful’ Vedic anecdotes? Seriously. Let’s do it..

Think of it as an experiment. If I (as an average example of ‘any other living person’) would pale like a ‘pale shadow compared to his radiance’…well let’s have a live radiance test in front of thousands of current and former followers. Wouldn’t you love to see me or some other ex-premie – as much in love with the sound of their own voice as is Mergie - go pallid in front of live cameras?

Or you could have Loaf-ji doing one his squeaky-voiced Maharaji impressions. Loafie would have them rolling in the aisles. Maybe Jim asking the Living Lord a few straight questions? Hmm. how about some non-cult-related outsider like Billy Conolly? A Monty Python Reunion?

Humpty only functions for a captive audience. He cannot perform in front of any other. In the real world many here have to do their stuff before non-selected critical groups of listeners and must handle interruptions and hecklers without losing either audience or radiance on a day-to-day basis. With no established fan-base we have to wing it, take chances and test our luck. But we get good at it. M, admittedly, is quite good at what he does – but whatever he does isn’t really so difficult. I liked Jim’s old comparison with Sid Vicious. (Sid had little talent for the bass guitar, but thrown in at the deep end, and in an encouraging environment, eventually managed to acquit himself fairly well. Just as M did – ordinary bloke born into an extraordinary (nay, ‘holy’) family. But to carry the analogy a step further: were he living, would you have gone to Sid for bass guitar lessons? I think not.)

Deprived of exclusive access to captive membership unquestioning of his moral and ‘spiritual’ authority, Prem Pal would crumble. His golden glowing face freezing over and glowing no more. Floundering like a beached flounder, his compelling confidence would wither on the vine - much as it did in those early DLM press interviews. I imagine he would have to make his excuses and leave the stage - much as he did after the hit-and-run bicycle road death. Too much like the real world for his cult-conditioned ego to handle.

And you, Bjorn , would have to deal with the possibility that those rare qualities you see in M - (eg. can you give me one example of (a) m’s ‘simplicity’, and (b) his ‘profoundness’..?) – were your own projections.

Marge stopped giving public interviews thirty years ago. As did Moses David around the same time. Sun Myung Moon, forty years ago. David Koresh, ten years. Wishing to address the public, get the public’s attention and adoration, and recruit from that same public, but only on their own, carefully stage-managed terms is simultaneously every cult leader’s dream and dilemma. Can’t work, ultimately doesn’t work.

Because only devotees can recognise the master’s specialness. That ‘recognition’ being their own badge of specialness. Outsiders would straightaway identify a personality cult.. Sharing a stage with a non-cult person – whilst welcoming all-comers along to watch - would do all cult leaders a lot of good. Such openness would also finish them and their shabby operations off in no time.

Nice chalet.

Nige

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:51:33 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Bjørn E
Subject: why do you read here? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:13:52 (EDT)
From: David
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Bjørn E
Subject: Who's Maharaji to talk about prayers?
Message:
I'd rather listen to a Born Again Christian talk about prayers than Maharaji. You worship a man called Rawat. So what? He's no closer to God than Joe, Selene, Jim, Sylvia, Gerry, Gerry Springer, Geri Halliwell or myself.

Your life is based on a religion called Maharaji-ism. People aren't interested in that here. I guess I'll have to block you if people object to your posts.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 11:24:17 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Bjørn E
Subject: You're sick
Message:
I fantasized about what an extraordinary person he is and if I try to imagine any living person next to him on the stage, they will look like pale shadows compared to his radiance.

This is one of the most toxic statements I've read here in a long time. No 'regular' human can compare with the glories and radiance of the perfect master. If anyone outside your group read this they would run screaming 'cult!'

It's sick that you think this puke Rawat is anything other than an explotive, cowardly criminal. He displaces true human relationships with his false messianic 'message.' You are a truly lost and a pathetic example.

Bjorn I wish you would leave and not post here anymore. You have your own 'sandcase' now over at Lifes Great. I stated several times that if people there wanted me to stop posting there I would. You should give us the same courtesy. Stop posting here. Many people want you to stop posting here.

You come here and insult us with your premie drivel satsang. Stop it. We are sick of it and we know it is all bullshit. You are in a cult and you are stuck for life. No wonder you are so miserable even in your luxurious lifestyle that most of the world would envy.

You wouldn't know truth if it bit you in the ass.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 23:57:32 (EDT)
From: Ian Dury
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Yo, Pissing Through
Message:
For the 25 years that I was a devoted cult-member, I would NEVER, EVER even entertain the possibility that I was in a cult - just like you.

Why is Rawat held to a higher standard here? BECAUSE HE REELED US IN BY CLAIMING TO BE THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE! And now, he's not? Some of us actually took vows of poverty, chastity and obedience, and dedicated our LIVES to him - while it was sex and drugs and rock and roll at the luxury-filled Divine Residence. Some of us just don't appreciate being fucked with in the name of God. Is that completely beyond your comprehension?

If you were as clear and contented with K as you claim to be, you would be spending much more time in 'synchronized participation', and showing your gratitude, as requested, instead of spending so much time here.

You sure don't act like someone who is clear and content. But you sure do act like a premie.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:38:24 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: All
Subject: About ev's 30% claim...
Message:
it's interesting, that statement from ev about only 30% of the costs are covered at these programs....the message is, cough up some more dough at the door while the grace is flowing...

I wonder if they would give a detailed summary of the budget for the recent program in Cal.
I can't imagine that if most of the premies gave the requested $45 each, that the $90,000 taken in would only cover 30% of their total costs.

When they put up the signs for donations needed at the programs, I wonder how much of that cash collected at the boxes is reported?
Could this be a way to grab some cash OFF the books to pay for some X materials and toys for m?

I would be totally open to someone like Harry explaining the budget for that program...hopefully they could back up their figures with an itemized statement from ev...

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:07:14 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: About Financial Secrecy
Message:
I think you hit the nail on the head about the Maharaji-cult finances. They are secret. They are not disclosed. Whatever they say is not supported by actual financial information. The financial information on the Elan Vital website is a joke. They just have graphs saying they spend what they take in. Period. No actual financial numbers.

So, it is a bit disingenuous for premies and others to say everything is on the financial up and up and what Elan Vital claims is probably true. If that is the case, there would be no reason not to disclose the information, like any other reputible charity or foundation.

I think the reason such information isn't reported is that many of the premies would be shocked at how MUCH money comes in, how MUCH money is spent on things that have nothing to do with spreading knowledge, and how MUCH money, through various shell corporations, etc.., actually ends up enriching Maharaji himself.

And of course, Maharaji's own finances have been a COMPLETE secret. But given Maharaji's obvious greed, and almost insatiable desire for expensive toys and all the best the world has to offer, one thing is very clear. He has spent a SHITLOAD of money, more money than most of us can even imagine. That money did not fall out of the sky. It came from premies. One way or another, it came from the premies.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:09:48 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Biblical expplanation to M,K and everything
Message:
I think I have discovered the reason for all this animosity between premies and ex-premies.
According to Genesis Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden of Eden because Eve picked the forbidden apple.
If you look at the browser type in this post you will see I am using an Apple PowerPC.
Ex-premies on the other hand seem to be using Windows based computers.
Maybe we are two different types of people, genetically destined to differ.
The only exception to this rule is Abi, who whilst using a Mac is not using the latest version of Internet Explorer.
Abi, please upgrade your browser and come back to the fold.
PT
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 11:18:55 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: oh yes!
Message:
I see the light now. Somehow there is a deep spiritual connection between my Mac and the premies and somehow this is connected to Maharaji. All I need now is a PowerBook and I will fling aside my doubts. So please send me a donation now so that I might purchase a high powered portable Mac and return to His Feet and caste aside my troubled questions. (That'll be a mere $7000 Aust, thank you very much). Save me, please, Passing Through. I will relinquish my Buffy the vampire killer fantasies about stabbing Jagdeo through the heart after kickboxing his face in, and my evil plot to overthrow EV, and I will sit quitely meditating as I commune with my new Mac and finally get in touch with my lost inner premie. The inner premie who has for so long been drifting sadly within the cyber-mind of the dreaded ex-premie community, who cries to me even now 'oh Abi, if only I had the latest Mac book I would be released from the prison house of the insane, hateful, drug-fucked epo freaks'. I hear her cry within me. Do you? It's not just that I need to upgrade I need a whole new computer. One I can take to coffee shops and pose with a radiant face, finally enlightened, among the lost souls of the world as I write beautiful prose for LG.
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 23:13:10 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: If only Abi.......
Message:
Dearest Abi,
Your beautiful heart plea really touched me deep within.
I will ask around.
I understand M uses his PowerBooks only once and then throws them away.
Regretably I have gave all my money away to a terrible cult in the early '70's and have not made any since.
I understand Taiko, the Japanese toy company are producing bento boxes in the shape of the new Titanium PB for upwardly mobile but downwardly financial school children.
Think how your life will change when you glide blissfully along the street with your G4 bento box.
And what a tool for high quality shoplifting ( for the Lord of course)
PT
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:26:14 (EDT)
From: hamzen who wished he had a jobs
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: For a dual processor G4
Message:
I'd fake it for a few weeks too,

shit I'd even fake it for a single processor G4

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 23:16:17 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: hamzen who wished he had a jobs
Subject: Higher hamzen, hiigher..
Message:
Dear Hamzen,
Desirable as a twin pocessor G4 is, it is the PowerBook that gets you to the front row.
Apparently, anyone with a G4 PowerBook is automatically assumed to be a honcho and never stopped.
PT
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 09:51:35 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: Re: Biblical expplanation to M,K and everything
Message:
While you are correct in the understanding that the choice of an operating system is theological in nature, you are incorrect in thinking that it has to do with M or K; it is a Christian theological dispute. Mac users are Christians from the Orthodox or Anglican branches of the Church (note the use of icons) while Windows and DOS based systems are preferred by Calvinist Protestants who must strive for God's approval and think they are the Elect.

Mickey the Theologian

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 23:42:46 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: You are correct Mickey!
Message:
When the Mac operating system was first developed in Wittenberg in 1689, its primary purpose was to provide an alternative to the Stained Glass Windows system.
(There are many references from this time about the Gates of Hell etc.)
Its adherents originally called themselves 'Windows Protestors' and was later shorted (after a trademark lawsuit) to Protestants.
PT
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 20:32:00 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re: Biblical expplanation to M,K and everything
Message:
Papists, being catholic, use both.

All the best: Pat Dorrity

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:47:51 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: hahaha!
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 05:22:41 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: Heres an x mac flasher for ya
Message:
Ugh duh

It's not about animosity between exes and premies, it's about thought control and the inability of premies to have rational discussions about k & big boy.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:37:59 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Yet another x mac flasher for ya
Message:
Power Mac is the superior computer in person! But that has nothing to do with this discussion. Even The Speaker uses Mac so, sorry Passing Through, your mythology needs revision. Hmmm, revisionism should be easy for you.
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 04:59:21 (EDT)
From: toby
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: forget it
Message:
wrong
i am using constantly changing, linux, freebsd , solaris , qnx, several windows,beos, so were does that fit in?
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 23:47:07 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: toby
Subject: You are a lost soul Toby! Reboot!
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:37:44 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: You deserve to be milked you idiot!
Message:
Apple pc people vs win based? Adam and eve? Genetically destined to differ? I think even Guru MuTT face would't take you in. If your in-get out now considering you sound like your 12 years old.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:31:49 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: At last...Clarity!
Message:
Thanks PT for clarifying and clearing up what could easily have turned into an ugly debacle, or worse. Your profound insight and wisdom is greatly appreciated. It's true, we are on a MacMission and I agree, Ab should upgrade to 5.5 IE which I note you are not using either. I found it incomplete (for the Mac at least) so perhaps we have not yet aspired to that great height.

However, I'm sure that when the heathens avail themselves of 'real computers' then all will be love and orange juice in cyberspace.
your admirer,
SC

P.S. Please note my technical details for future reference and accreditation. I am proud to state that, not too long ago, I was actually mistaken for you. I can tell you I strutted around grandly that day!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:53:10 (EDT)
From: Passing through
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Bobo's claim
Message:
Bobo says: rawat and gurus are worse in a way than a milosevic or manson because they steal and mess with peoples highest aspirations
PT says: Gee Bobo. On one hand we have M who has given K to tens of thousands of people. Many of whom decided they like K , are very happy with it and have all sorts of aspirations and some people who decided they didn't like it, are leading happy lives without it and have all sorts of aspirations
And on the other hand we have two men who have tortured and murdered thousands of people, who are no longer able to be happy and have had their aspirations destroyed.
Can anyone see a difference or have you given up logic and honesty along with Knowledge?
PT
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:27:36 (EDT)
From: Bobo
Email: None
To: Passing through
Subject: Re: Bobo's claim
Message:
Fortunately I did say 'in a way'. Of course mass murderers are beyond human. But they are obvious bad guys. Rugu fucks with peoples soul and highest aspirations.
The story about leaving k. and walk away happy is the newest slogan from EV. So k. is only good for some people?? what's next
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 21:56:48 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: Bobo
Subject: Bobo's like Jagdeo, in a way! (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:01:29 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Passing through
Subject: Someone answer Pt ..I can't be assed :) nt
Message:
xx
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:11:44 (EDT)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Passing through
Subject: I wrote to you in the 'Bob' thread [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:42:16 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: To Peg
Message:
Dear Peg,
This sentence of your's says it all-
'I was always a back row sort of premie and didn't know about anything of this until I happened upon these sites and found my whole view of Maharaji changed overnight'
The vast majority of people have a similar experience- they hear about M & K, if they're interested they receive K, if the want to practice they do and if they want to keep in touch they do.
They know nothing of M's private life and they couldn't care less.
They enjoy K and appreciate M as a teacher.
However the ex-premies, most motivated by anger, have gathered together every negative assumption, lie, rumour and opinion and created this site.
Your choice is- do you trust your own experience.
Or do you defer to the opinion of people who's sole purpose is to discredit M no matter what.
Just look at some recent postings- Silvia wants to get governments to audit every premie, Bobo thinks M is worse than a mass murderer etc.
Don't expect logic, honesty or understanding on this site and you won't be disappointed.
I've read virtually everything the EPO has to offer and discredited lots of it.
I enjoy this site like I enjoyed school debating, I don't take it seriously and nor should you.
PT
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:56:22 (EDT)
From: JHB (EPO Webmaster)
Email: jhb@ex-premie.org
To: Passing Through
Subject: Accuracy of EPO
Message:
PT,

You wrote:-

I've read virtually everything the EPO has to offer and discredited lots of it.

Are you saying that there are inaccuracies or false statements on EPO? If so, I would be very grateful if you could point them out. I have recently taken over as webmaster, and am concerned that only supportable information is held in the site. You may email me if you wish.

Thanks,

John Brauns

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:06:19 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Passing through
Subject: Re: Bobo's claim
Message:
PT,

There are many ways to take a person's life. Don't throw that cult word around so easily. You're in one. I was there, I know.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:18:08 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Am I miissing something Cynthia?
Message:
Yes, that's true.
Milosevic had people who disagreed with him stabbed, shot, cut to pieces, burnt, buried alive, blown up, starved to death, raped to death.
You on the other hand have walked away from Knowledge and are now living a happy life.
PT
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:33:06 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: Re: Am I miissing something Cynthia?
Message:
I stated that there are many ways to take someone's life away from them. I find the comparison between Maha and Milosevic quite offensive. I know about what that genocidal maniac did to people. It's not something to joke about or even put forth in this discussion.

You come here, without revealing your name, harrass people, start stupid threads that are
meaningless to this conversation about the cult, and then you behave in that typical premie superior 'I know something you don't' manner.

I was a member of the cult. I was close to Maharaji for one year. I know what I experienced at DECA. Ever heard of it? Your statements are lacking in logic. Whenever someone tries to speak with you, your responses is that we're a 'hate club' or just disgruntled premies who left Maharaji.

Well, it goes much deeper than that. Putting Milosevic aside, Maharaji is a cult leader who cares NOTHING for his followers. I've been there, I seen his behavior, and he a selfish brat in his 40s.

If you want to discuss whether or not you're in a cult. Fine. Keep victims of genocide out of it. You are a heartless son-of-a-bitch!

BTW, are you constantly in Holy Name? If not, and you love your urug so fucking much, perhaps you should sign off and get into practicing what you preach!

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:07:38 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Cynthia's wrong again!
Message:
Cynthia said: I find the comparison between Maha and Milosevic quite offensive. I know about what that genocidal maniac did to people. It's not something to joke about or even put forth in this discussion.
If you want to discuss whether or not you're in a cult. Fine. Keep victims of genocide out of it. You are a heartless son-of-a-bitch!
PT says: Almost right Cynthia, just one little correction. It was Bobos who brought up Milosevic not me.
I also object to his hate inspired rhetoric.
So it is Bobos who is 'a heartless son-of-a-bitch'.
Could you please take up this argument with him?
PT
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 14:40:12 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: The woman with so many heads!
Message:
No. I responded to YOUR post. You brought it up again and you tend to be, well, annoying....pass right on through and out!
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 08:57:18 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: What you are missing
Message:
is that you claimed to be a new premie and to have only just found this site. You are a liar. That rather detracts from your courageous defence of the false god you worship as your Master.

But hey, we know you are not serious. You've said so.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:32:10 (EDT)
From: Pasing Through
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: What JohnT is missing
Message:
JohnT writes: 'you claimed to be a new premie and to have only just found this site. You are a liar'
PT says: I have never claimed to be a new premie or to have just found this site.
You, JohnT, are wrong again.
And you are the liar.
Please apologize.
PT
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 18:19:48 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Premie delusions
Message:
this post takes the cake:

I did not really know Pia, though I spoke to her a few times. Last time I saw her was in Amaroo in 97 (I think). Our eyes met frequently, and somehow I knew she had cancer. Nobody told me.

It is hard to explain, but I sensed that she in spite of the misery, knowing that she probably would die soon, she has an incredible strength. Her eyes were shining, and to me she was the most beautiful woman in that place. It was like within the terrible situation she was in, she still dedicated herself to the joy within her. Even though I did not really know her as a person, ever since those moments when our eyes met several times a day, I have admired her immensely.

My sympathy goes to her family

Bjørn E

This is magical thinking, is it not? Even that is being charitable, because I really think Bjorn is a pathological liar. Of course when you have that damn fool Rawat telling people he can save them from the clutches of death, it goes to reason that you'd believe just about anything.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 05:27:56 (EDT)
From: Bjørn E
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Ex-Premie delusions and a challenge
Message:
Gerry wrote; 'I really think Bjorn is a pathological liar'

Except for 2 times I made up a white lie in order to protect myself from the outing and false accusations, everything I have written here at F5 or at LG is true. Therefore I challenge you Gerry to prove one lie I have come up with. Most of the things I have written can be proved.

BTW when I returned fro Amaroo, I told about Pia to my wife and to some friends. I deeply admire her for the courage and her dedecation towards Life.

I just returned from my cottage in the mountain to pick up my wife for the weekend so if I dont reply, I will do it later.

Sincerely Bjørn E

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:17:20 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: there's ALWAYS a delusion promoted
Message:
Isn't it interesting how maharaji has always had at least one major mystical concept that he holds as the carrot in front of the premies as he whips them with the very real stick?

Of course, NONE of his mystical concepts can ever be proven, and when they are proven to be untrue, he moves on to another one, and denies having said the first one.
Talk about bait and switch.....

It's interesting to note that the way he phrases each one always gives him an 'out', or alibi, to fall back on if he needs to weasle out of it.

For example, when he came here in the 1970's, it was complete realization of knowledge (what did that ever mean?), and world peace that were promised.
Also, the bombs would fall, but maybe they wouldn't, because guru maharaji was here, and if the premies worked hard enough....

But the premies never seemed to work hard enough, or surrender enough, or be clear enough, or to have 'that' understanding, or to really love and obey 'that' master enough...
So, if the bombs fell, he was covered....it was the premies fault..
If the bombs didn't fall, he was covered...it was grace...

There was always a mythological carrot that no one could ever reach.
But the stick was always real....yelling, abusing, threats of rotting minds and falling glasses that shattered into a million pieces etc...

The guilt and abuse was very real.
And the carrot was never reached by anyone...not one person has ever been declared by maharaji to have finally 'gotten it' (whatever that might mean)by the master.

And we all naively assumed that maharaji had 'it', whatever that might mean, and that he was patiently waiting for us all to 'catch up' to him.

Now we know that while premies led saintly lives in the ashram, he was getting stoned, drunk and laid in the 'holy' residence.

Now, he doesn't talk abut 'full realization' or 'surrender' and pretends he never did.

But now the carrot is a little different.
Now he tells you that if you die without him, you will die.
But if you die remembering him, you will escape the clutches of death.

He says that your immortality is inside you and he teaches you how to go inside.

He is claiming to show people the key to immortality, but never really quite accepts the full responsibility for it.
He tells the premies that 'Kabir says this' and 'Kabir says that', but never makes it clear what he is saying.
Once again, if you were to hold his feet to the fire about these statements, he would say that Kabir said those things, so go ask Kabir. Maharaji didn't actually say them, Kabir did (conveniently dead), so if you've got a question, go ask Kabir.

It's ironic that he never quotes the Kabir quote about the master NEVER taking money from the devotees...

He says that Krishna says 'remember me at death'....does that mean he is telling premies to actually remember Krishna when they die? (highly unlikely)
Isn't he telling premies to remember maharaji when they die?(because he is the living krishna)
But once again, he tells it in a veiled way.
This coded language lets premies believe they have something special, but is just vague enough for him to wiggle out.

Every time one mystical promise wears out, he pretends he didn't say it, or that premies laid it on him, and then trots out another one.

He can't just teach a meditation that might make you a little peaceful.
He's always got to have at least one little 'mystical zinger' to promise the premie something that no one else has(carrot), and another 'zinger' to remind you what happens if you don't follow him(the cliff,broken glass,rotting vegetable, clutches of death).

Beyond that, unbelievably boring, inane jokes, quotes,bragging,toilet humor,simplistic answers to complex problems that will never work...and then a 'zinger' every few minutes to keep you listening...

And the premies keep watching him pull one rabbit after another out of his knowledge hat.
And has anyone ever seen him practice for an hour a day minimum, ever?

And can he ever prove any of his claims?
And has anyone ever fully understood him?(except for himself)

What a relief it was for me when I finally stoped playing his game, let go of the guilt and incessant trying to be somewhere I wasn't (and nobody appears to have ever been) and realized that I was quite happy and peaceful by myself without doing anything different than just living.

Maharaji once said that if you left knowledge it was like jumping off a cliff.
If it was a cliff, I think it was only about 1/2 inch higher than the ground.
Actually, it felt more like being released from a crowded,smoky, smelly, decrepit old room in the basement of some old house, into the warm sun,sights,sounds and breeze of a spring day...

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:42:23 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Brilliant posrt Gerry NT
Message:
zz
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:44:03 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Sorry Gerry..meant LA-EX :) NT
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:23:13 (EDT)
From: gerry :(
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: cant I be brilliant just once, please? please?
Message:
snicker)
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:14:04 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: gerry :(
Subject: Haha ..you already are Gerry (nt)
Message:
zz
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 23:12:14 (EDT)
From: goodygoodygirl
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: It seems like that was the way it was! nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:27:52 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Such a good post, La-ex!
Message:
So right. And as we get older and there are more and more premie deaths among us, you know that this card ain't going back in the deck anytime soon. It was cosmic experience when we were young and looking for adventure. 'Join DLM and see the universe!' Alternatively, for those more bent on saving the world, it was bombs into rose petals.

Now, years later, it's the post mortem long-term benefit package. Sigh!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:37:27 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Breaking free of the Gerry cult
Message:
Dear Gerry,
You show all the classic cult signs-
Classifying an outsider's indivdiual experience as being 'magical'.
Gratuitious abuse of someone who does not follow your thinking
Labelling non conformists as liars
PT
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 09:08:38 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: you forgot
Message:
Steady on, PT, you're forgetting yourself ...

  • systematic misrepresentations of who they are and what they believe

  • poor educational attainment

You're funny, dude.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:30:09 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: Fuck off already
Message:
Listen, asshole, nothing you say makes any sense AND you damn well know it. That's why you're anonymous, after all. You guys are as meaningless as ghosts.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 19:43:19 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Potent Stuff...
Message:
Hi gerry,

I don't know what the fuck happens when someone dies. I've been around dying people twice, both were close to me.

The stuff that Maharaji says about death is such bullshit. But isn't it the root of the scam? First he says I can show you 'Life' capital L. Then he hints (now anyways) that only the Master, only 'He' can give that free(lol) gift of 'knowing that life.'

I do know that something happens to certain people during death. If they accept their death, they seem to have a peace about them that is primal. Neither of the folks I was close to who died of cancer were premies. Their deaths were tragic and I was filled with grief. Maharaji implies he can relieve people of grief and that is so dangerous because our society already shuns outward expressions of grief. There have been times when I've made those sobbing grief sounds that go so deep and come up and are released that I know it is what makes me human. NOT THINKING ABOUT MAHARAJI WHEN I DIE!!!!!

He said that (paraphrased): When you are dying, what are you going to think about, your bank account, your car, your family? When you are dying, THINK OF ME!!! (the audience of premies roared, at the confirmation he is the lord who will sustain all suffering, which is a fucking lie.

My sympathy goes to her family, too. Maharaji uses premies like this in order to make them feel shitty, so they think they need HIM more!

What a fuckhead!

Venting....

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 19:59:04 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: So, here's one more indelicate question
Message:
Do you think that premies who knew her (either in person or by reputation as the 'valiant' crusader for truth that she was) are right now praying to Maharaji to save her?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:39:45 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm not praying Jimbo
Message:
I'm proud to be able to call her a friend and I thoroughly enjoyed working with her. I'm celebrating her life more than ever now.

But hey, you won't get that.... right?

Na, didn't think so.

But don't let your overactive mind spam you with a million questions about it old chap. It ain't never gonna get the gander.
Never.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 11:56:13 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Maybe wishig and hoping? And dreaming?
Message:
Sorry, SC, if you're celebrating Pia's life, you're celebrating something that is OVER. This is where I've taken an interest in human consciousness and how we read things, including death. There is nothing to celebrate in death. Only people who can't face it as THE END feel a need to find something to clebrate about it, and I think that's probably MOST people. Death is just too much to bear. You can't help asking the infamous question, 'Is that all there is?' Pia was here, now she's gone. You want to 'celebrate' her life. That's because you're afraid of her death.
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:04:32 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Quite right Jerry
Message:
Technically speaking you are quite correct. I'm celebrating an idea not a reality. The work she started and that I participated in with her, is flourishing. I'm happy that she passed on knowing that a group of people she respected and loved, were getting right on with the very thing she felt most stongly about.
cheers,
SC
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 23:03:13 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: But what do you think, SC?
Message:
Did she die or did Maharaji save her from the clutches of death?

You know, the 'guarantee'?

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 00:18:17 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I can't speak for her!
Message:
I can only imagine that she relaxed completely into the beautiful experience of the breath, realising that the true 'ME' does not die but merely departs the body when it is no longer functioning sufficiently. I have often felt a complete departure from this world whilst practicing, only to emerge back here sometime later on.

Why do you find it all so spooky and mysterious?

SC

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 18:36:10 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Hey, let's look at this a little closer
Message:
SC,

Surely this is not a trivial issue. Let's consider it closely, then. Shall we?

You suggest that there is a 'true you' that departs that 'merely departs the body when it is no longer functioning properly.' That, I take it, would be the same for everyone, no? But what then is this 'guarantee' Maharaji talks about? And what are the 'clutches of death'? And, most importantly, what does it mean to 'escape' them?

You could say 'hell, who cares?' but it's YOUR Master who said this shit, not me. Don't you care to know what, if anything, he means?

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 04:13:27 (EDT)
From: PatC b)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, I can't believe you have the patience
Message:
To talk to a thing called SC (Selena Crumpet of LG) who is David Whitla. Shall I publish his full name and address once more?
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:14:02 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm just about to
Message:
Do the dirty on my Hughes and Kettner amplifier. I respect your dialogue on this subject and want to give it my full attention which I will certainly do when I return.

If was a wierd thing, two days ago I was in the music store to pick up a H+K footswith (they didn't supply one) and the owner showed me this Laney Tube Plus amp with an unbelievable array of sounds at one's disposal. I've been thinking about it ever sinbce and just rang the shop. He said come down within half anhour because we close at 1.30 (it's Sat). So I'm taking a fantastic H+K and maybe trading it for a doozy, maybe for a mighty monster. I don't know and must admit to being a bit nervous.
I'll get back on topic later,
SC

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:46:35 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: to SC
Message:
Exactly, you can't speak for her. And NEITHER CAN MAHARAJI!

In late stages of cancer, most people are in great pain. My guess is that she was filled with morphine, and was unaware of anything at her death. In fact, because at the time of death the breath becomes so labored, often a 'little extra shot' often helps a suffering and dying person pass away faster. I've seen this happen.

But, I don't claim to know in Pia's case.

Was Maharaji by her side? In person I mean. I don't think so. But you cannot deny that he puts forth this so-called promise that if a premie remembers HIM at death, i.e., concentrated on Holy Name, they will be delivered from mortality.

And he claims he is just a simple human being. What a liar and a con!

Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:03:47 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: So, here's one more indelicate question
Message:
No. I think that they believe, hmmm, excuse me, 'know' he already saved her.

I think premies pray to Maharaji all the time. I did. What a waste!

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