Ex-Premie Forum 6 Archive
From: Jul 14, 2001 To: Aug 07, 2001 Page: 5 of: 5


Barry/Jim's friend -:- Gasoline on the fire? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 17:28:05 (EDT)
__ cultfree-Eric -:- Re: Gasoline on the fire? -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:34:25 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Re: Gasoline on the fire? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 23:42:45 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- Way to go Deb! Now thats what I'm talken about! -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:19:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Hold it Barry -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:34:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Barry -:- What? -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:46:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: Hey Francesca... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:58:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Barry -:- No! thank you Deb!nt -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 01:52:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- And I guess I don't totally agree -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:16:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- You're a friend of Jim's right -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:48:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Barry -:- Where's the irony? -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:53:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- The plant comment was a joke!! -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:04:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Barry -:- Re: The plant comment was a joke!! -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 01:58:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca :P -:- No apologies needed! -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 02:16:59 (EDT)
__ Jerry -:- Re: Gasoline on the fire? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 23:08:03 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- CD dies a premie! Crap the forum! -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:23:57 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- So you've sussed me out then -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:02:06 (EDT)
__ __ magiclara -:- Re: So you've sussed me out then -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:05:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Try this -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:08:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Re: Try this..third time lucky sir Dave? -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:20:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Barry -:- Oh ya! That works! -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:26:40 (EDT)
__ Bob -:- Re: Gasoline on the fire? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 19:56:19 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Re: Gasoline on the fire? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:02:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ Barry -:- Hey Jim! -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:22:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ Bob Schmitz -:- ot -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:07:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Bob-->Bobo -:- Re: name issue -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:16:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- What a big disappointment! -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:10:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Barry -:- Re: What a big disappointment! -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:18:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Barry -:- Jim! Scratch that reply.I was confused!nt -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:25:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- What? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:23:37 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- It's very simple, Barry -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 17:35:43 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- Re: It's very simple, Barry -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 17:54:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- In you had been poisoned by Tylenol .... -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 18:30:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Barry -:- Hi Francesca! -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:15:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Maharaji is afraid of the press -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 00:13:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Barry -:- So your saying...... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:12:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- I'm not saying ... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:44:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: I'm not saying ... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 21:59:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Agreed. Total waste of time, that! -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 00:39:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Barry -:- OK, ok! Yeesh nt -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:49:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Do it! -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 18:24:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Barry -:- Re: Do it! -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 19:53:39 (EDT)

Abi -:- Jean-Michel are you OK? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:05:31 (EDT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Which post on LG ? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 14:53:24 (EDT)
__ __ Francesca :C) -:- Here 'tis -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 16:14:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Am I on trial ? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 16:46:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Some of those posters over on LG ... -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 18:19:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ You can't analyze -:- You can't analyze halfbraindead anonymous jerks -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 00:36:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ CD -:- Re: Some of those posters over on LG ... -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:44:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- No need for the insults CD -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 00:27:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ CD -:- Re: Sorry -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 04:06:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- You're on! :C) [nt] -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:23:28 (EDT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- I'm fine !!!!!!! -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 14:49:23 (EDT)

gerry -:- Pia has died -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:24:13 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- Strange feeling.... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:52:04 (EDT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Re: Strange feeling/M's veiled statements -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:29:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Ms Direct Threats -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:06:48 (EDT)
__ Jim (repost from LG) -:- SO WHERE THE HELL IS SHE ANYWAY? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 14:58:45 (EDT)
__ __ Bjørn E -:- You are losing it, Jim (nt) -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 16:57:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- And you are afraid to deal with it, Bjorn -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 17:01:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Bjørn E -:- I am not afraid to deal with it, Jim -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:48:38 (EDT)
__ __ Jim (repost from LG) -:- Was Maharaji bullshitting or what? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 16:04:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ don puerco -:- Re: Was Maharaji bullshitting or what? -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 10:57:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ silvia -:- ASS: nt -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:03:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ la-ex -:- Jim, that's the question you must ask -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 16:48:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- The final insult to Pia is m's -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 17:00:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ When Dermot -:- When I wept over my fathers coffin. -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 18:26:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- His bullshit stinks out loud [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 19:19:58 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- That's sad gerry. -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:21:28 (EDT)
__ Abi -:- very sad -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 12:35:09 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- I salute her passion for life! [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:58:05 (EDT)
__ wolfie -:- my love and respect NT -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:52:31 (EDT)
__ Dermot -:- Very sad indeed. NT -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:30:54 (EDT)
__ David -:- Re: Pia has died -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:30:23 (EDT)
__ __ SC -:- A dear friend of hers sent me this -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:46:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Thank you SC -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 12:26:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Sad news.... -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:40:29 (EDT)

Jim -:- Fanatic alert? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 08:41:37 (EDT)
__ Richard II -:- Ah, the beauty of the sound-bite -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:51:51 (EDT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Rich II, then why doesn't m.... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:54:03 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- So let me see if I have this straight ... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:46:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ Richard II -:- Not quite -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:48:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- 'Idiotic questions' ??? !!! nt -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:32:32 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- Spew and Hate -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:46:39 (EDT)
__ Francesca :C) -:- Yes, give the premies ... -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:40:05 (EDT)
__ Abi -:- frightening stuff -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:17:38 (EDT)
__ gerry -:- How 'bout this nutter? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:56:05 (EDT)
__ __ ggg aka goodygoodygirl -:- Blimey -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 23:28:39 (EDT)
__ __ Abi -:- god, how vile! -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:14:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ Bobo -:- Re: god, how vile! -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:37:37 (EDT)
__ don puerco -:- Re: Fanatic alert? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 09:08:16 (EDT)
__ CW -:- Re: Fanatic alert? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 08:43:20 (EDT)
__ __ hamzen -:- Fanatic ism= inability to discuss -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:06:03 (EDT)
__ __ JohnT -:- Re: Fanatic alert? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 09:06:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ Richard II -:- Pompous alert! -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:57:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ CW in Agony -:- Re: Catch22 -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 08:10:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Premie alert! -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 05:16:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Richard II -:- Dog-pile alert! -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 14:00:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cat -:- Youre still 10000 light years from home...... -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:25:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- What are you saying, cat ? -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:35:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AA Catweasel -:- Re: What are you saying, cat ? -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:31:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Carl put it rather well -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 06:57:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ CW -:- Funiculi Funicula-Below -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:24:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Gotcha! [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 17:04:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Getting Cat to swallow the truth -:- Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:27:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cat -:- Re: Getting Cat to swallow the truth -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 04:49:55 (EDT)

Dermot -:- Is Harry blocked FA? If so, why? -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 07:22:04 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Here's Harry's post from LG -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 12:09:37 (EDT)
__ David -:- No he's not -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 07:40:44 (EDT)
__ __ David -:- On the other hand -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 07:54:39 (EDT)

bill -:- A post not to miss from Bob -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 22:38:34 (EDT)
__ la-ex -:- Thanks Bob,feel free to post again nt -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 17:03:50 (EDT)
__ Ian Dury -:- Yo, premies! -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 00:12:35 (EDT)
__ __ Passing Through -:- Yo! Ian Drury -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 01:12:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ Peg -:- Yo Passing ThroughI -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:03:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Drunk in your own house -:- Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 19:00:58 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Is this Bob Kirby, by chance? -:- Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 23:41:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ Mr D -:- Or do they? -:- Sat, Jul 14, 2001 at 09:24:56 (BST)


Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 17:28:05 (EDT)
From: Barry/Jim's friend
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Gasoline on the fire?
Message:
The last couple of days I've been seriously looking over posts etc...and I can't help but think (or at least I always come back to this) Why keep this up when possibly all it does is give M a spot light? Even if it's an extremly negative one, I still can't help feeling all it's doing is keeping that creep in biz-ness to some exstent. At this stage, with M been brought down as low as his corp. can get, maybe he's even liking the fact that there's this pile of ex-M ass lickers that spent loads of free time wanking about there salad days being wasted by a phony cult leader? He could be like Andy Worhol, So long as he's still in the shot with nichole kidman-he's still in biz, or if he's in the tabloids no matter if it's a story about how he exploited hundreds...well good press, bad press, who cares at this point. He's still in the minds and hearts of the general puplic. I think this may only breed potencial victims? Heres a question: Does anyone know if M's organisation (whatever's left of it!) check the forum out, and harness it's negative energy to only redefine it's own agenda? You all could be giving him and his upper elite's the stuff they need to answer wary, new ,broken hearted potencal members. I know all of you have come so far from the days of bondage (mind and heart) but maybe it's time to not pay this asshole M any tribute what-so-ever! Negative or not. I mean hell, you already added an anything goes forum...why not go all the way? Like I said..I have never been a premie, or for that matter never been gullable enough to join a human being in the belief that he or she is God. I learned early on in life there's no such thing as ghosts. But hold on! This may be my downfall I admit. Not ever being in complete bondage to another humanbeing. I don't claim to know what that feels like-if you feel anything at all at that stage...I'm just asking Why? Why do we still talk about Manson, or Hitler for that matter? and don't give me that we must never forget shite! we give this scum life eternal through books, and costant attention. Youshould kill this fuck Maha-fuck-pimp once and for all in your lives. Take back what he's taken from you. The rest of your lives.
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:34:25 (EDT)
From: cultfree-Eric
Email: None
To: Barry/Jim's friend
Subject: Re: Gasoline on the fire?
Message:
Dear Barry/Jims friend, It is cathartic and therapeutic for some of us ex-cultists to examine our past delusions and name them,discuss them and finally release them. I for one am glad this forum exists to further shed the light on a rather disturbed guru -worship divinity cult. I was a card carrying devotee of the Lord of His Underpants for close to 26 years . You don't get over that amount of mind programing overnight. However , I am now enjoying life more than ever and open to more to more of life's possibilities and joys than ever { cultfree for over a year and loving it] Have a great life , everyone.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 23:42:45 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Barry/Jim's friend
Subject: Re: Gasoline on the fire?
Message:
Hi Barry,

First of all I would like to thank you accepting Jim's invitation to be a representative in the Debate. That was very generous of you.

I am currently a 4th yr. student at the University of Victoria. I came by 2 months intentially to read the archives and talk to some of the posters. Two yrs. ago I accidently fell into this place while contemplating the whereabouts of the MahaPrick. Although I embellished my spirtual experiences since drifting away 10 or 12 yrs. ago, I had never really had closure. I had no idea what was going to happen to me, and sometimes I wish I never found this place. But I did, and what I have to release inside me is very important for my growth. It's conflicting but the garbage buried in the basement of my mind had to finally be taken out. You know, the stench was no longer bearable.

Now in response to your post. You have some real good points:

First I want to address your first comment about the spotlight and the psychological affect that press has regarding celebrity-ship.

The BigHead is not a celebrity figure (he's been out of public press for decades) and therefore does not fall into the exact same pot of soup. Yes, he's rich and gets donations and program fees rivaled only by singer sensations and leading actors. But he is quietly amassing his fortune, behind the scrutiny of the public eye.

Today, Maha is low-key. He has yoked the same devotees for over 30 yrs. The effect of the cult-hold on the oldtimers conditions or primes the new people who, at first, are thinking they are getting special meditation techniques and then find themselves swept up in the group hysteria and projected cult high. The electricity of the cult high is foreign and unexpected and therefore confirms that M must be special and that this phenomenon must be due to MAHA. Well it is, but not for the reasons the new or old people realize. That's the hook.

Now the BigHead and his corporate posse don't want the public to hear of him. They want to use the public media, but only under Maha's terms. This is crucial. He can't afford to have people ask questions or speculate. He comes like a thief in the night.
He even said that himself at a few programs. Everyone grins cuz of of it's allegorical reference to the CHRIST. Sick, eh?

A very important point you bring up that I want to elaborate on is:

Does anyone know if M's organisation (whatever's left of it!) check the forum out, and harness it's negative energy to only redefine it's own agenda? You all could be giving him and his upper elite's the stuff they need to answer wary, new, broken hearted potencal members.

This is something I struggle with every day when I come to read these posts. The exes spend endless hours contributing information that the posse reads and attempts to circumnavigate. This pisses me off because it's a glaring shot in the foot on our parts. I never not see that.

So I come along and say, 'Let's bring this to press, television, schools, etc.' Well!! Just look at the reaction. It's worst than calling the BigHead a dickless piece-o-shit. The underlying reality is that we are only shadow boxing in a closed arena. So, it's safe to sling insults, but the idea of media eavesdropping is very apparently threatening.

The premies are in the spiritual closet. They are subconsciously embarrassed over the LORD. Their guru is like the crazy aunt they got locked up in the basement. It's funny, sorta. Can't let the neighbours know, you know. People might think they are weird or guru forbid, in a CULT.

They are even under oath to reveal the techniques. Interesting how it's the same type of control sexual abusers hold over their victims? What's going to happen to them if they show someone? No critical thinking, it's like scaring children. They don't have the mental faculties to rationalize the potential circumstances and discern bluff from potential harm.

So much time goes into the posts. And what do premies do, they waste hours and hours of exes time as if we weren't screwed over for time wasted in our life prior to discovering the BigLie. Premies can't answer any posts. Sure they type some dick-scrawl in the post box but look what they say. How much pride could they have in their intellect, hearts, souls to spew such ignorant puerility? How much faith could they have in their experience? It's scary as shit to read the ugliness of their rotted-out minds. They can't even use their own vocabulary. Not an iota of individualism. They attack the strongest voices with obscenities because that's what's stored in between their minds and the part of their brain that perceives the truth. This keeps the exes pounding away at the keyboard, unfortunately at the expense of meaningful everyday life choices.

Meanwhile, the EV arsepicks are plucking away the hours thinking of how they can spin or use the information against us. They progress on the backs of the well-meaning exes.

So I have decided that it's better to lurk, read, and occasionally respond and take the bow and arrow and aim for the Achelles heel. It will make me happier and more effective. I had a life and goals before I came here 2 months ago and I have them now. I am grateful for the realization that MahaPrick Shit for brains is a FRAUD. I support this site, and will contribute $$$ when I have some to spare. But I will not spend another day jeapordizing my mental health and wasting my time on the premie obstacles. If they want to know something they can click on FVI and join the threads. If not, FUCK THEM.

My message to all exes: STOP SHOWING ALL YOUR CARDS.

It's one thing to diagnose the problem, but it's another thing to fix it for them.

We are giving so much power to them, it's a fuckin joke. And I am onto it and over it.

Thanks to everybody who helped me through this stuff, I appreciate it. If you would like to take a more pro-active stance in this henious scandal you can email me. I am re-routing my energy. My education is imporrtant and I can't afford to walking around all cult-wounded and get what I need out of my university experience. I am also starting my own company and need to be focused. It' been real. Take care to you and your loved ones. Don't be suckers. I love you all and wish you eternal happiness!

Cheers

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:19:38 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Way to go Deb! Now thats what I'm talken about!
Message:
Holy CRAP!!!!! Now thats what I'm talken about Man! Rock on debora-rock on. YOU GOT IT YOU GOT IT. Good for you. Gook luck with your life and new company. YOU own your own. You are loved-1stly by yourself. Good luck and prosparity, Barry
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:34:26 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Hold it Barry
Message:
She just said that if this Forum wasn't here, she might never have gotten it. So like JHB said, it's fine that some come and spend some time and then waltz on into the sunshine, but if everyone does that, there will be no forum for those for whom it will be of benefit.

I'm sure that if I spend less time here someone else will take my place. But the solution isn't for everyone to leave.

Are you sure you're not a premie plant!

:C) Francesca

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:46:11 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: What?
Message:
No fran I'm not a plant, I'm not even a weed! I was just happy she got my points, or atlaest a couple of em. Like the premies taking the neg and twisting it toward some sort of formula for thier own reqruitment agenda. And that she's fairing better on her own. Thats all. I read your posts back very carefully, but you seemed to be telling me the obviouse like I'm a child. I wanted you to at least entertain my questions as possibilities.
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:58:22 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Re: Hey Francesca...
Message:
I'm not saying that I don't agree this place should be here, I believe it should. To me, Barry was addressing our personal not collective values. He was also pointing out a major flaw.

Mainly, we are working for the other party (if I got it right). This is the dilemma for me. I want to contribute to the forum but not at the expense of my own sense of worth.

Too much time is going to the loser premies. These aren't the cool guys we knew. THey are the scum at the bottom of the pool.

I have determined that THEY are not worth my time any longer. The exes have such good things to say. Many of us have been closer to M than the 50 yard line. I have, at least.

This forum serves an EXCELLENT purpose to find us, educate us, support us, and keep us abreast of new developments. But once we realize what's happened, the next step is to undo the damage and forge ahead.

For some that will mean, go back to your daily routines. For me, it brings up a new routine, a routine I will incorportate into my current goals.

I think Barry was highlighting an imbalance in our purpose, that's all.

Thanks Barry,

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 01:52:55 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: No! thank you Deb!nt
Message:
ddddd
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:16:27 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: And I guess I don't totally agree
Message:
I don't think we are working for the other party. I don't think Barry has enough solid information to come to that conclusion in any viable way. It's a nice theory, and a point well taken, but I don't think we are, at least not in a way that impacts the usefullness of the Forum. If you put what they can use on one side of the scale, and the help the Forum has been on the other side, there's no contest. I know you take it a bit more personally because Charles Glasser cherry picked one of your posts for his wierd website.

I agree that I do not have any more time to waste arguing with premies. It will never get anywhere. My main point in coming here is to find other pals from the old days, make some new friends, deconstruct the myth, and dialogue with other who are doing the same. I think the premie education site is EPO, not the Forum.

It may be time for you to move on, and that's totally cool, but for Barry to come on this Forum and make a statement that people are wasting their time here and that they should 'run along now' and 'get on with it' is the same type of comments we get from the premies. If it wasn't coming from Bar, I'd take it as an insult.

To me forging ahead doesn't necessarily mean not posting on the Forum, although it may mean posting a lot less. I do think there will be a revolving door here, folks will post a lot and some will move on and some will contribute in drabs. But that's what already happens anyway.

bests, Francesca

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:48:03 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: You're a friend of Jim's right
Message:
Didn't you remember to take your irony pills?

bests, F

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:53:43 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Where's the irony?
Message:
Jim has told me many many times he has no real explanation for why he fell in with that M-freak. He has told me it was the dumbest thing he ever did..he admits his stupidity and vonrebility. Do you mean it's ironic that an ass like me is hangen with the same type I'm slagging.
If you do you missed my hole point.
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:04:00 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: The plant comment was a joke!!
Message:
In fact -- it was Jim's own joke several times, and people took him seriously, just like (unfortunately) you did!

Jim talks with a lot of irony, at least on this forum, and I've fallen several times into taking something he meant ironically or sarcastically as a serious statement. So I got used to saying I'd forgotten to take my irony pills when I didn't get it.

BTW you aren't an 'ass,' at least in my book, if you're hangin' with Jim!

Bests, f

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 01:58:14 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Re: The plant comment was a joke!!
Message:
Ok fran sorry. It's just that sometimes you posts back are so full of the obviouse that I feel patted on the head by you...but sorry everythings cool
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 02:16:59 (EDT)
From: Francesca :P
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: No apologies needed!
Message:
That's what I get for mixing jokes with serious stuff. But I'm afraid it won't be the last time ...

Didn't think what I was saying was obvious, but whatever!

bests, F

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 23:08:03 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Barry/Jim's friend
Subject: Re: Gasoline on the fire?
Message:
Here's what I think, Barry. Before ex-premie.org, there really wasn't any deprogramming tools out there to snap you out of it. All you had was a bunch of sycophants saying how beautiful it is. If you had doubts, you kept them to yourself. If you weren't feeling blissed, you kept it to yourself. The only time you openned your mouth was to praise M & K. Otherwise you kept it shut. It was expected of you and you went with the program.

Now, say you were just at a video presentation, and you're riding down the elevator, afterwards, feeling a little bummed out, and somebody says 'You know, I think Maharaji can be pretty fucking boring sometimes. I didn't get anything out of that'. Guess what? You will NEVER hear any such thing. The only words spoken will be of the highest praise for what just transpired. And there you are wondering what's wrong with you, how come YOU don't feel all beautiful inside?

Then one day you stumble upon this website, and you hear dozens of people, former premies just like yourself, expressing all your doubts. You find yourself being challenged to be rational about your involvement. You're suddenly like a bird who's cage door has been opened. Fly away, little birdie, let go of it, you know it's bullshit, you've ALWAYS known it was bullshit!

And this is where the line is drawn between exes and premies. I think premies who don't respond to the ex-premie message are probably destined to be and remain premies for their whole lives. Yes, I do. CD, Mili, Passing Through, these guys I don't think can ever be anything but premies. It's their destiny. I really believe that. But what about that guy standing in the corner of the elevator who just needs a nudge to set his mind free? That's what ex-premie.org is for. That's why it's still here, and hopefully will remain so.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:23:57 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: CD dies a premie! Crap the forum!
Message:
Fluuuuuuuuuush!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:02:06 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Barry/Jim's friend
Subject: So you've sussed me out then
Message:
I am the premie plant.
[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:05:17 (EDT)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: So you've sussed me out then
Message:
I keep seeing the crosses in boxes but can't make them do anything. Can you help?
Thanks cyber novice
Magiclara
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:08:44 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: magiclara
Subject: Try this
Message:

[ I am the premie plant ]
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:20:08 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Try this..third time lucky sir Dave?
Message:
zz
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:26:40 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Oh ya! That works!
Message:
I just love a big spammy ad for Yahoo Geocities!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 19:56:19 (EDT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Barry/Jim's friend
Subject: Re: Gasoline on the fire?
Message:
There are 2 sides to this IMHO: When I don't participate in the forum, like recently, because of computer repair, I look back at the cult and rawat as something marginal, really insignificant, passee. (like when I discovered EPO, I was just bored and curious if there would be any remnants of the cult left and if rawat had already died from cirrosis or other lifestyle related disease.)
Surprisingly there was a lot of passion, emotion and involvement churning up from deep waters below, and I felt strongly in touch with my creativity.
We have left a lot of ourselves behind out there, in our late adolescence, full of dreams and ideals. It is good to take some of it back, whatever it takes!
It is important to block the influence of people like rawat, because they do more harm than you and I will probably ever do good to humanity and the world.
In doing so we also get a sense of closure.
rawat and gurus are worse in a way than a milosevic or manson because they steal and mess with peoples highest aspirations
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:02:04 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: Re: Gasoline on the fire?
Message:
Bob: Are you Bob Kirby or not? Please, you got to tell me. You can email me at jamesheller@home.com

Barry: Guess who came over last night? Lorick. Back in town, shaved the beard, doing music software for a Seattle company and married a Russian he fell in love with when he was over there for work. But then this isn't forum stuff, is it? Okay, pretend I emailed you.

P.S. Planet of the Apes sucked!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:22:46 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey Jim!
Message:
That Loric's always been a lucky dick! Thanks for the scoop on the monkey flick I think we'll wait for the vid
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:07:29 (EDT)
From: Bob Schmitz
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: ot
Message:
No I don't sell vacuum cleaners. I do have a Furby collection
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:16:07 (EDT)
From: Bob-->Bobo
Email: None
To: Bob Schmitz
Subject: Re: name issue
Message:
I looked below and saw that during my computerstrike another Bob started posting. I have posted on a regular basis on forumV the past months. Since I am new to forum 6 I will change my name to Bobo
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:10:54 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bob Schmitz
Subject: What a big disappointment!
Message:
Oh well. Schmidt, huh? Well, I guess we've got one room over the kitchen. You don't care if the tv's broken, do you? 'Cause this is all we got, fella. Take it or leave it.

Oh where or where is Bob Kirby? Please, Lord, ....

Well, Mr. Schmidt, what'll it be. I ain't got all day you know.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:18:23 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: What a big disappointment!
Message:
What's that mean Jim? I'm not being a nazi here ya know? I just was putting out the idea that this may be fuleing M's trip without anyone knowing it.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:25:52 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Jim! Scratch that reply.I was confused!nt
Message:
dddd
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:23:37 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: What?
Message:
Barry,

What are YOU talking about? I was just playing around with Bob here regarding his identity and all that. ??

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 17:35:43 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Barry/Jim's friend
Subject: It's very simple, Barry
Message:
Barry,

Followers of Maharaji deserve to know the truth about him to allow them to make an informed decision about whether they want to follow him or not. There is a steady stream of people rejecting him. We know this from emails to the webmaster at EPO, and new posters here. Also, anyone thinking of getting sucked in, can come to the ex-premie sites, and avoid making a huge mistake. So, we're just a public service:-)

Ask Maharaji if he thinks we're doing him a favour by shining this spotlight.....

BTW, Anything Goes has been around for at least a couple of years.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 17:54:26 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: It's very simple, Barry
Message:
John! thanks but is it that simple? Maybe I should start a forum on the poisoned Tylenal victims. Just because the advent of safety packaging came along doesn't mean it's stopped.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 18:30:32 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: In you had been poisoned by Tylenol ....
Message:
... and the problem was ongoing, and you felt that educating others could alleviate the problem for some, and it meant enough to you to continue to warn others, perhaps you would.

Some people walk away. Other people feel a responsibility to warn others. There are many reasons. Many of us left a cult that was so complete that ALL our friends were premies. Until we made new friends, we couldn't even talk about it with anyone else unless we knew some exes. Then there was the issue of all those premie friends, and not being able to really talk with them about it. You see the backlash we get from people who are outraged that we are saying anything critical about 'the Master.'

Many of us 'walked away' and never really deconstructed the myth. I would say there are many in that category who come here. They find others in the same position or who have gone through the same process, and can dialogue on it. It could be considered exit counseling, deprogramming, all sorts of things.

Why are there affinity groups for anything??? If you haven't been there, you can't really say. Many people start nonprofit organizations based on a lake near their house being poisoned with toxic waste. They could just move, and let someone else deal with it. It's kind of a balance. You can't dwell on the past, but you can't ignore it, either. Some people need to DEAL with the past in order to get on with it.

To the extent that someone feels had, abused, used or whatever, that's the extent to which they have to try to work through what they perceive to be damage. I personally am lucky that my husband and I moved away from a large city where all my premie friends lived, and started a new life, so to speak. We found the local premies but continued our exit and lost contact with them all. The Maha didn't matter any more, he was a joke, and we moved on. But I'd never really opened that closet full of old junk that was there to examine what in me wanted to have a master-disciple relationship. In fact, at the time that I found the Forum, I was in a 2 year process of extricating myself from YET another one, in Tibetan Buddhism.

With the help of the dialogues on this Forum, and dialogues that happened offline and by private e-mail, I was able to clean that closet. If my process is over, and if I feel I no longer need to post here, I will. I've had old friends who lurk tell me that they were reading all my posts and getting some help in their own process.

So that's my experience, Bar. At least a piece of it. You asked.

Bests, f

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:15:36 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Hi Francesca!
Message:
First of all, thank you for your very personal replie. I do appreciate the time you put into that.
And yes I didn't entertain the idea that the forum may be very much just an outlet for abused children-so to speak. Sure everyone needs to talk about what nasties have taken place in their lives, but what about my question about M and his co-horts reading and what-not as a way to destroy your credibility in the face of new recruits? How does it go...? Keep your friends close and your enimies even closer! Like i said, I understand that the forum is a warning system and an outlet..those things are plain to see, but what of the life it gives to M's ministry? Someone who's down and willing to give up may find this place, read on, and say to him/herself ' Boy this guys sounds like he's done some bad shit, but he's just a guru, what harm could he really have done?' Jesus was accused of all sorts of wierdness by the Romans and the Jews/Hebrews. This in turn caused many who were probably not seeking god to go check out the show-so to speak again! Bad press is good press. Hey lets go see The Doors tonight, I've been reading that the lead singer likes to wriggle around on the floor and show everyone his dick! Most of The Doors shows sucked apparently, but anyhow....you get what I mean. Yes the forum is a great therypy tool, but so is a doctor trained to do egzactly what one may need who believed hole heartedly that one silly little human was god. Please everybody don't get me wrong here, but man! Anyone who's grown up in the modern world-who followed around one guy thinking he was GOD must of had a little bit of a complex to begin with. Sorry.
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 00:13:21 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Maharaji is afraid of the press
Message:
Maharaji has an aversion to publicity. In the early 70s when he first came to the West Divine Light Mission (the name of his org then) sought publicity, but it backfired on him big time. His trip cannot withstand the scrutiny of the ordinary mind. Maharaji has not allowed himself to be interviewed by the press for years. I don't believe they allow the press into any programs.

The publicity around Millenium, and his arrogance with the press (you should see the clips of the press interviews after Pat Halley hit MJ with a pie and Fakirinand and 2 premies tried to kill Halley) got him some royal treatment.

Nice theory Barry, but it doesn't jibe with reality. I have an old ashram mate who is one of Elan Vital's lawyers and the last time I saw her she mentioned Maharaji's aversion to publicity. He was REALLY wary of the Internet.

Why do you think all those premies come here and tell us to 'move on.' They'd like us to go away. This is BAD publicity. I doubt he likes it.

bests, f

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:12:05 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: So your saying......
Message:
He actually never checks out the net? He never reads up on the disapointments he's cast apon his once loved ones. Sorry, but it's human nature. Theres no way he could resist. When a movie star says they never read the tabloids, I think they might as well say they never breath. Thats just my opinion though. anyhow, thanks for the chat. I hope for the sake of the victims, and not M, your right.
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:44:11 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: I'm not saying ...
Message:
... that M doesn't read the 'net. I'm saying that, at least in the past, was quite wary of it as an information medium that could be used against him or backfire on him, just like he doesn't want articles written about him in newspapers and magazines. Some of the press he got was negative. (He's used to being worshipped, right?)

Deborah has a point that press coverage of the Maha would be a good thing. I just disagree that it's an 'either-or' proposition, i.e. that the 'net isn't effective so dump that idea and go to the press. It's all effective. Your point is well taken that EV may try to manipulate some of what we do to their ends, but they cannot repair the negative effect this Forum and the EPO website have on their propagation efforts. EV hasn't been successful thus far in using the Forum or EPO to its own ends.

Not everyone will respond to the Forum or EPO. But not everyone responds to newspapers (some don't even read them).

bests, f

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 21:59:31 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Re: I'm not saying ...
Message:
Hi Francesca,

I read your response post and I have no disagreements with you.

My opinion is not an either/or. It is not slanted too much on battling with premies, the premies that are here.

I want more balance. We can be much more productive. Yes, it's an excellent place for wandered-off exes and recent defectors. But the incestuous battle is out of the scope of people who can stifle Maha and bring this battle for public speculation. That's all!

We can prevent Maha from propagating, that's my goal.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 00:39:10 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: notinherent@yahoo.com
To: Deborah
Subject: Agreed. Total waste of time, that!
Message:
The arguments with the faceless trolls. Ghosts as Jim calls them. Blech.

I hunt and peck and try to stay out of most of that stuff. If it were up to me, ALL the premies would be blocked, but that would take a lot of work.

Bests and stay in touch if you post less. My e-mail is above. I've got yours because you posted it once.

--Francesca

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:49:28 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: OK, ok! Yeesh nt
Message:
ee4e
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 18:24:48 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Do it!
Message:
If you feel strongly about it, then do it! The vast majority of ex-premies don't have anything to do with Maharaji or these websites. It's just a good thing that some people are willing to put this info out there. Oh, some of us do get a bit addicted (like your friend:-)), but it's not as bad as heroin is it?

John.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 19:53:39 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Do it!
Message:
No. This is true, it's not smack.nt
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:05:31 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Jean-Michel are you OK?
Message:
J-M,

I just read on LG that you were under investigation of some kind. Have EV tried to sue you and Combat?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 14:53:24 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Which post on LG ?
Message:
would repost it here ? Didn't find it. I don't have the time to read all their nonsense.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 16:14:02 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Here 'tis
Message:
Some of those guys in the LG 'hate club' are really doing a good job over there of shooting themselves in the foot. Peace and love, bro'!!

Francesca

---

---

---

Posted: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 12:47:20 (EDT)
Original: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 12:32:00 (EDT)
Posted by: Lord Sutch Recipient: gwpnp
Email Address: Not Provided
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.7 [en] (WinNT; U)

Subject: Re: Hate Club threats again
Message:

*laugh!* Yeah, it's pretty funny, actually. I can just see Jim and Deborah feverishly banging away (at the keyboard, not each other, of course) foamy drool dripping from those cro-magnon faces, sending e-mail to the Indiana Commission of Corn Futures that they need to investigate Catweasel immediately. LOL!

Nonetheless, you must admit, it's pretty revealing stuff. It's a hateful agenda, and they are clearly obsessed with Maharaji as an icon for their own regrets and us as individuals as a target of their envy and confusion.

Speaking of investigations, the EX's ought to start with the Human Rights Tribunal. There's investigation going on, all right, but it ain't about Maharaji or Elan Vital!!! Poor Jean Michel, he's gonna look good in prison clothes! And from what I hear, european prisons are delightful!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 16:46:48 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Am I on trial ?
Message:
I didn't know anything about it !!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 18:19:39 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Some of those posters over on LG ...
Message:
... are so misinformed and paranoid. I think the guy may have been joking. Since there are so many anonymous trolls on all the Forums, people begin to think these shadow people are real, and actually have something to say. Or maybe they just don't know what to think.

They are real people playing trolls of course, but hopefully they have not completely merged with their troll personas. Yikers.

bests, f

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 00:36:30 (EDT)
From: You can't analyze
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: You can't analyze halfbraindead anonymous jerks
Message:
can you ? Why bother ?

I've met quite some premies in real flesh, started talking about 'my website' etc: they knew 'everything' of course, but it turned out that none of them had read what's on the website or the forum ......

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 22:44:48 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Re: Some of those posters over on LG ...
Message:
How about: Some of the posters on these here forums are so misinformed and paranoid.
If you think that type of behaviour only exists on LG then you are a redneck.

CD

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 00:27:35 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: No need for the insults CD
Message:
I mentioned that there are trolls on ALL the forums, and I was referring to a particular post on LG as an example of the types of paranoia and misinformation going on. That's the post J-M asked about. But there's some of it here too, nobody's perfect.

Be nice or you'll be off my premie good list.

bests, F

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 04:06:15 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Re: Sorry
Message:
The message should have been: 'Then You Might be a Redneck'
I don't want to be on the good list.
Sign me up for great.
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:23:28 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: You're on! :C) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 14:49:23 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: I'm fine !!!!!!!
Message:
Nothing happened so far ...... The weather is very hot in Paris these days.
EV and Rawat are paper tiger IMO.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:24:13 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Pia has died
Message:
Pia passed away quietly sometime very recently, according to SC at Lifes Great forum.

My sympathy goes out to her friends and family.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:52:04 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Strange feeling....
Message:
I didn't know Pia, and if I had ever met her, I don't recall it. Since she was European, I probably never came in contact with her. I have no reason to believe she isn't a great person, and it sucks that people die younger than it seems the rightfully should.

But I remember when her website first showed up, and seeing the delusion and vitriol towards people who had left Maharaji that she was showing, I couldn't help wondering if that website was a good use of whatever time she had left. I mean, we all make choices in our lives about what to do with the time we have. But it seems Pia died within 2 months of her website showing up. How much time in the last days of her life did she spend on trying to defend Maharaji from this mythical conspiracy to falsly malign him? I can't help but find that even more sad.

I feel that most of the time I spent following Maharaji was a whaste and it's time you don't get back. Somehow, if I knew I only had a certain time to live, or if I knew my life would be very short, that wasted time would seem even more wasted. I think what I'm saying here, is that I feel for Pia, both that she died young, and also I hope she did the things she needed to do during the last bit of time she had. I wonder how much Maharaji appreciates it. I wonder if he cares.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 15:29:49 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Strange feeling/M's veiled statements
Message:
One thing that is interesting to note again is how m uses death and references to it in a veiled way to put out his 'I'm Lord/Not Lord' message.
It's also interesting to note how he has never really stopped this 'yes I am/No I'm not' message since the very first days when he would say stuff like 'and that's why the lord comes, to show this knowledge', and then say stuff like 'I'm not saying I'm the lord, I'm just a humble servant'.

Supposedly he said at a recent program that someone who was on the verge of death (I'm not sure if it was supposed to be Pia or not, and I do not want to bring her death into this)said that if they saw life before like they do now (on verge of dying), they certainly would have lived differently.

From my 28 years of listening to m as a loyal premie, I know that if I heard him say that I would automatically assume that he was telling me to be more devoted to him.
The assumption would be that the person was saying that they would have focused more on m/k.

However, they might have meant anything by that statement, including the fact that maybe they would have listenend to m less, and left him earlier....

It's another example of how he uses guilt and fear (in this case, the ultimate fear for many people, death) and vague statements to manipulate premies beliefs and feelings about him.
There is an assumption implied by m's statement abut death, but then again, you could never pin anything on him about it, because of the vague nature of it.

That dying person might have meant anything by that statement, but I believe that the average premie listening to m assumed that he was telling them to be more devoted to him...

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 16:06:48 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Ms Direct Threats
Message:
Although Maharaji is pretty incoherent much of the time, I think almost everything he says is intended to have an effect, whether that's successful or not is another subject, and the purpose is to get people more ensconced in devotion and gratitude to him, and to try to keep them from 'moving on.' He has to resort to threats as part of that, or so he thinks. Apparently the 'experience' isn't enough. He has to use the stick like you said to scare people that they will waste their lives, miss out, or die without the proper 'understanding.'

And I think you're right about how, these days, he gives himself sleaze room to not be accused to making divinity claims. No so in the past, though. I guess hew wasn't as good at it back when I was a premie, because his divinity claims were blatant, his demands for devotion were blatant, and his threats were blatant. He can't weasel out of them because his words are recorded for posterity. But he is slicker and sleazier about that now, although I think most of his die-hard followers were already indoctrinated 20 years ago, and figure he is just being diplomatic these days, but really is divine.

But this thing about remembering your breath, and knowing your life is limited, etc., and how that makes you different is such crap.

I know people with terminal illnesses who say that knowledge gave them a greater appreciation of their life. I know of others who just freaked out, got depressed and some even killed themselves. Others still didn't change much. They just tried to live their lives with dignity.

I think the point I'm making is that I am not interested in knowing if I am going to die in 2 months, or to keep some part of my attention on my breathing. I don't want to live like that. Sure, I might plan some things, perhaps do some things I haven't done, if I knew I was dying in 2 months, but there would be a lot more going on to. The thing is, if you are preparing for death, you miss the things you would have been doing otherwise. Is one better than the other?

And if you are focusing on your breath, or worshipping Maharaji, what AREN'T you doing that you would be doing instead, and is one better than the other? No, not really. It's only Maharaji who says there is something better in the life he prescribes, but then he has vested and conflicting set of interests involved.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 14:58:45 (EDT)
From: Jim (repost from LG)
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: SO WHERE THE HELL IS SHE ANYWAY?
Message:
[SC posted] Pia has passed quietly on. She was clear and aware until the end.

M mentioned her at the program.


---

[I replied] M mentioned her at the program? What'd he say? Did he say anything about what happened to her?

This is from the summary of M's talk in London, July 13, this year:

He said that it was easy to understand and discuss the trivial things in life, but that when it comes to the discussion about this life. most people don't even want to consider it. Yet if we really want to start to exist, we must understand the importance of the breath and the value of life.

He recounted the death of a wealthy friend, who did not have Knowledge. 'All his wealth, all of his achievements, none of them could help him to breathe.'

We know, he said, that we come into the world empty-handed, but do we know that when the master comes we don't have to leave empty-handed.

The problem is that we feel that we come into the world to make a profit, but actually when we leave, we don't even leave with what we came with. However, it is not as if there isn't a reminder. It is not, though, in the mind, it is in the heart.

The heart always longs for fulfillment; it is always calling out for it.

If we can embrace that which is not dependant on time, which neither comes nor goes, then we can free ourselves from the grasp of death.

From birth, we are actually in the grasp of death, he said, but we forget this. 'That is why there is Knowledge, so you can feel your originality again. If you connect to that experience, your don't have to worry about the clutches of death.'

(emphasis added)

So what exactly did Maharaji say about her? Did Pia 'free herself from the clutches of death' or not? Did she avoid leaving 'empty-handed'? Yes? No? Or is more like 'I don't want to talk about it but it sure is fun to play with!'?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 16:57:55 (EDT)
From: Bjørn E
Email: None
To: Jim (repost from LG)
Subject: You are losing it, Jim (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 17:01:30 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bjørn E
Subject: And you are afraid to deal with it, Bjorn
Message:
Hey, Bjorn, did Maharaji save Pia from the clutches of death or not? If he did, why feel sorry? If he didn't, why did he say that he does exactly that as recently as two weeks ago?
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:48:38 (EDT)
From: Bjørn E
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I am not afraid to deal with it, Jim
Message:
There are many things I don't know. I suppose that is the case with you too.

Your behaviour speaks for itself.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 16:04:57 (EDT)
From: Jim (repost from LG)
Email: None
To: Jim (repost from LG)
Subject: Was Maharaji bullshitting or what?
Message:
Maharaji said this in Mainz on July 8:

What is being given is so pure, so simple, and so real. Accept it. For that student and that Master, let there be nothing else in between. Just that focus. When the Master's need to teach is greater than the student's need to learn, and when the student's need to learn is greater than the Master's need to teach, you've got some very incredible phenomena taking place.

'Let me teach,' and, 'I want to learn.' Those two have met up, and that's that. Simplicity now begins to dance, and every breath settles down into its rhythm, neither fast, nor slow. Every breath and every moment is understood. Every day is enlightened. Now the light is escorted in, and enlightens this heart. And then I begin to live. I am back on the path I came here for. Everything is put in its balance. Because now, I'm not asking the question: what did I come here for? Now, I know. And I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be alive. All that was wrong has been put right.

And now, I walk with surety. Before, my steps wallowed, because I was uncertain. They stopped because I questioned where I was going. Now, they move swiftly, they glide. Because I know where I'm going, I take every step with dignity. This is not false pride, but real pride. To walk this life with eyes wide open, not shut: to walk with assurance. And for those who may have come empty-handed, there is the guarantee that they're not going to leave empty-handed. Knowledge is no mystery, life is no mystery. This is the challenge, and this is the simplicity that each of you is being offered. You have Knowledge in your life, be thankful.

(emphasis added)

What guarantee? What's he talking about? Anyone? It sounds to me like he's offering some ticket to immortality or something. Isn't he?

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 10:57:19 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Jim (repost from LG)
Subject: Re: Was Maharaji bullshitting or what?
Message:
thanks jim, for posting this great teaching, and forget it man,
manmukhs like you will NEVER know
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:03:23 (EDT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: don puerco
Subject: ASS: nt
Message:
shhhhhh
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 16:48:05 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jim (repost from LG)
Subject: Jim, that's the question you must ask
Message:
and the answer you must know....

(lifted from the song 'Who is Guru Maharaji?', by suzi bai whitten, I believe, or maybe alan thomas from ny.

Isn't it interesting that m will never allow REAL Q&A sessions, so that obvious, common sense questions like that could be asked, and hopefully answered by the master himself.

If he is selling immortality(which it certainly appears to be, although in a veiled sort of way)then you would think he would want everyone to know it.
Why would he play cutesy with it?

I wonder what he would say in a Q&A if some sincere person asked him if he was in fact giving the key to immortality?
What would he say?

No wonder he doesn't do Q&A anymore...he'd eventually have to account for his mystical bullshit that he sells in couched, veiled terms, but refuses to actually come out and proclaim as fact.

When he plays cutesy with it, the premies get to feel 'special' and 'saved', while he doesn't have to account for what he promises.

The rest of his talk is generally so bland that no one could argue too much with it, because he says little or nothing of merit or value.

90% blather, and 10% silly mystical references that are so vague that he can't be held to any accountability for them.

Just this one quote would be enough to expose him.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 17:00:02 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: The final insult to Pia is m's
Message:
You're so right, La-ex. You know, as I think of it, m really gets that final kick in here. Pia's family ... should they be mourning her as dead, gone, lost forever or, alternatively, should they be grateful that she, of all the billions of people who ever lived, was saved from the clutches of death by the Master?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 18:26:58 (EDT)
From: When Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: When I wept over my fathers coffin.
Message:
When my 'ole fella' died 20 yrs ago the coffin was kept in the front room at home prior to carrying down to church the next day.

The house was packed but I spent the night sleeping in the coffin room. I had a little pic of Maharji, did a fair bit of meditation in between intense weeping ( incidentally, the only time I wept ...my 4 bros all wept at different times ...one at the graveside)

Ringing in my ears was a Maharaji ism I remebered....' parents of all premies are looked after when they died'.

Comforting in a way .....but now I think, totaaal bullshit. My ole fella probably doesn't exist now at all now he's dead. None of us really know, maybe there is some form of life after....I don't think so but who knows? Pretty sure Maharji was just bullshitting though.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 19:19:58 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: When Dermot
Subject: His bullshit stinks out loud [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:21:28 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: That's sad gerry.
Message:
Pia was an old and dear friend of Dot and myself. We went on family holidays together a couple of times, and watched each other's children grow up. She usually stayed with us when she came to London.

She was bright and intelligent. I remember her proudly showing me the proofs for the book on technology and education she had published in Denmark a few years ago. She was happy and full of life at the time.

She was a strong brave woman, who reared a lovely family, sometimes single-handed. My heart, love and sympathy goes out to her children, Tomas, Judy, Maria and Martin, who must be missing her more words will ever say right now.

Anth Ginn

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 12:35:09 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: very sad
Message:
Hope her children will be alright.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:58:05 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I salute her passion for life! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:52:31 (EDT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: my love and respect NT
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:30:54 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Very sad indeed. NT
Message:
x
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:30:23 (EDT)
From: David
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Pia has died
Message:
I hope she passed away peacefully and with no pain. My sister died of cancer a few years ago and she was able to die at home, well medicated and with the pain well under control. Very difficult for those caring and who are close to the dying person.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:46:12 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: David
Subject: A dear friend of hers sent me this
Message:
It was calm, without struggle or pain, and she was reportedly able to keep focused and peaceful. She lived such a remarkable last year with her heart and spirit shining through an increasingly deteriorating body. Maharaji mentioned her passsing at the program and quoted her saying, 'If I had known what I know now about life, I would have lived very differently.'
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 12:26:52 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Thank you SC
Message:
I lost my father to cancer a few months ago, and it is indeed an intense, fierce, but also peaceful and beautiful journey. So thanks for sharing that.

bests, F

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:40:29 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Sad news....
Message:
A friend of mine passed away this April from colon cancer which was diagnosed too late.

I want to say I felt no personal animosity toward her and the website.

It's so hard for those who are left behind....

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 08:41:37 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Fanatic alert?
Message:
Something Richard 2 posted on LG:

And if the ex-premies think they are up against a man with a few silent supporters who, because of technology, they are able to slander with impunity, they should think again. They are up against people like me who have nothing to lose. If they ever come out of their lairs and choose to stand in my way, or in the way of someone who is thirsty to hear about the real water, they will find out what commitment is. Guaranteed. And every day that I see the garbage and ignorance these guys spew, the more committed I become. I guess that’s because the more the darkness reveals its true nature, the more attractive becomes the light. It has forever been this way. So be it.

Makes me wonder, is this guy channeling Fakiranand?

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:51:51 (EDT)
From: Richard II
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Ah, the beauty of the sound-bite
Message:
My response from LG:

'No Jihad Jim. I’ll just match your commitment to destroy him with mine in supporting him any day. Really, I’d love the opportunity.

Oh and by the way, regarding your macho statement about cross-examining Maharaji, that’s rich. I’d just love to see Maharaji make hash out of you. You know some of your minions may be fooled but I have it on good authority you ain’t much of a lawyer. I guess on the internet you can be anybody you want though.'

Wasn't it you who declared this 'jihad' Jimbo?

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:54:03 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Rich II, then why doesn't m....
Message:
or anyone representing m from ev, come out swinging and make hash out of Jim or anyone else for that matter?

Do you really think m could answer the tough questions like:
1-do you have a drinking problem, while proclaiming to have the key to happiness?
2-if you never said you were the lord, then why are there numerous quotes from you stating that in fact you are the lord from just a few years ago, and from recent satsangs in India?
3-do you really believe that if a person gets the 4 techniques (now possibly from a dvd) and practices them, they will get immortality, and escape the clutches of death? (he's said that)
Would someone else who got the techniques from a book, have the same experience?

Rich II, don't you think that if m could make 'hash' out of his critics (who he admits are hurting his work, and has called them his enemies)he would do so?
It would make his work so much easier, because he would make them look so foolish, right?
It would make him look stronger, right?

Or, he could simply come on-line and vanquish them right here on epo or his site.

But no, he had to try to take the sites off-line, rather than deal with the very real and disturbing issues that are raised here....
Does that sound like a confident man with nothing to hide?

Now tell me, why doesn't he come out and deal with this stuff?
What's he afraid of?
And why is he so afraid of the media?
And why does he never meet with his critics?

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 12:46:40 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: So let me see if I have this straight ...
Message:
I've spent years now criticizing your fat, ugly and squat little cult leader, the one with the incestuous devotional relationship with his daughters, etc. etc. and challenging him to come out and try to dfend himself. And he's hidden behind confused fools like Glasser, Pia, etc., and has never dared to once talk with any of us, and you're silly enough to say that he would make a hash out of me??

Ha ha aha!

Go watch the Lord of the Universe Video, if you have the courage to. You'll see your master get all nervous and scared like a little boy in the principal's office. Want a copy?

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 13:48:55 (EDT)
From: Richard II
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Not quite
Message:
I've spent years now criticizing your fat, ugly and squat little cult leader, the one with the incestuous devotional relationship with his daughters, etc. etc. and challenging him to come out and try to dfend himself. And he's hidden behind confused fools like Glasser, Pia, etc., and has never dared to once talk with any of us, and you're silly enough to say that he would make a hash out of me??

Ha ha aha!

Go watch the Lord of the Universe Video, if you have the courage to. You'll see your master get all nervous and scared like a little boy in the principal's office. Want a copy?


---

What you've spent years doing Jim -- wasted is more like it -- is masturbating in public. That you think you are an important enough adversary to waste his valuable time entertaining your idiotic questions is a testimony to your dillusional self-image and arrogance. As I said Jim, you are alive and well in your fantasies.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 17:32:32 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: 'Idiotic questions' ??? !!! nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:46:39 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Spew and Hate
Message:
Hi Jim,

Those two words, spew and hate seem to be the key words on LG, (I stay away from there, btw, one forum is enough for me).

I'm so scared, I'm shaking in my boots. LOL!

What a crock 'o shit--this forum is alive and well as ever, even though it's not on the EPO site. What fools!

Love,
Cynth

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:40:05 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yes, give the premies ...
Message:
... a free-for-all unmoderated site of their own and it is soon full of hate and bile.

However, I must say that the threats that get posted on LG are are pretty vile, and directed at people. I wish I had the time to make a mirror site to Charles Glasser's and collect them. For example, calling the Maha a 'dickless piece of shit' as opposed to saying you are going to get someone with a baseball bat are two separate things.

One is arguably a fact. The other is a threat.

And yes, this guy sounds like Maxwell Silverhammer.

Yow.

Francesca

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:17:38 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: frightening stuff
Message:
That's a bit creepy. Careful Jim, he's after you.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:56:05 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: How 'bout this nutter?
Message:
You expected these people to play it straight?

C'mon, the only honest and sensitive people openly and very vocally left the Hate Club earlier this summer after they consipred to hassle premies at work, threatened them, and violated privacy rights. (It's all in their archives.) Why do you think they had to move the forum off EPO? Christ, when even the die-hard 'anti-cultists' throw them out, YOU KNOW what's left is a pretty bad smelling gang.

All that's left over there are the marginally insane, tin-foil hat, pure hate crowd. Their numbers have greatly diminished because so many of them realized that there's nothing but a hateful agenda at work. Most sane people who stopped practicing Knowledge have just moved on with their lives. The few that remain (they pop in here to urinate all over themselves) will do anything to justify their actions. I guarantee there will be at least two nasty responses from them (at least Jim and Deborah) to this posting.

When your mind rules you (rather than the other way around) there's no limit to the sickness.

Peace, harry. I really enjoy your sharing.

I love the 'peace' bit at the end. These guys must really be experiencing the glory of the Perfect Master of our Time and his holy and perfect Nollidge. (snicker)

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 23:28:39 (EDT)
From: ggg aka goodygoodygirl
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Blimey
Message:
and after all those years of practising you think one would have got rid of the hate by now!
Oh well keep trying mr angry premie and if you get angry enough perhaps one day you too could join the exes!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:14:11 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: god, how vile!
Message:
I don't know why (maybe it was the way I was brought up in Divine Light Mission) but I still have this idea that premies are nice. loving, gentle, sweet, kind people at heart.

All these childhood memories of softly singing arti and meditating peacefully get totally shattered when I read that sort of stuff. And at the least it's just not very strategic of them to be so vile because it cancels out any anger here.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 20:37:37 (EDT)
From: Bobo
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: god, how vile!
Message:
That is what puzzles me. 'in the old days' we got involved with m and k. because we sought enlightenment, bliss truth or love. Now it seems there is a population of premies who are deliberately hateful and even when knowing about rawat's corruption keep hanging on to him for some perverse reason... Bob
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 09:08:16 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Fanatic alert?
Message:
channeling fakiranand?? this guy is still alive and hopefully KICKING !!!!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 08:43:20 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Fanatic alert?
Message:
No , you have been for over three years .
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 13:06:03 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Fanatic ism= inability to discuss
Message:
Since when has Jim been unable to discuss, rationally, point by point?

Are you sure you're not an ex warped out in disgust at brownnosing big boy. An ex who's having difficulties coming to terms with it, masquerading as a premie.

I'd forgotten the irrational hilarity you could display, maybe even describable as fanaticism.

Maybe english isn't your first language
but you are a hoot cw, even if quite often a soulless hoot.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 09:06:04 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Re: Fanatic alert?
Message:
CW: My tormentors are all dead ... I'm a deaf , dumb and blind mute.

You never answered my question as to whether you had been forcibly deprogrammed, except to (grandiously) reply ' ... you're fucked then, aren't you?'

Of course you are wrong about the people here. They have broken free of cultish mind-control. Your intelligence troubles you with the truth about your situation, yet your resentful, hurting heart prevents you from dealing with it. You are caught in an agony of reactive denial. It's not a pretty sight. You are an ugly warning of the damage Rawat's cult can do.

Who were your tormentors, cat? Was it your family? Your father? Your husband? What reason do you have to nurture your hatred? Is it to revenge that you poison your heart and cling limpet-like to a perverted cult?

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 01:57:50 (EDT)
From: Richard II
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Pompous alert!
Message:
JohnT said: “Your intelligence troubles you with the truth about your situation, yet your resentful, hurting heart prevents you from dealing with it. You are caught in an agony of reactive denial. It's not a pretty sight. You are an ugly warning of the damage Rawat's cult can do.”

Man JohnT, where the fuck do you get this stuff. It’s great! “Caught in an agony of reactive denial.” Whew, CW not much you can say to that now is there?

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 08:10:11 (EDT)
From: CW in Agony
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Re: Catch22
Message:
Well if I did , I'd be reacting and in denial!!!! God he's the clever one. What a trap. Lucky I know how smart he is! Phewie!!! That was SO close..........................
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 05:16:03 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Richard II
Subject: Premie alert!
Message:
Richard II: Man JohnT, where the fuck do you get this stuff. It’s great! “Caught in an agony of reactive denial.” Whew, CW not much you can say to that now is there?

I just write it Richard. But not to sound pompous. Not when compared to your infamous 'I prefer to see the relationship between belief, knowledge and logic in a scientific way.' Your inability to examine your own beliefs in that way makes your declaration sound silly and pompous and hypocritical.

But let's not quibble. It does seem Cat has acknowledged I'm getting warm in understanding her psycho-pathology, and I am sure you are right that she will have difficulty in saying anything clever and snide in return.

Anyway, that would be a waste of time. What I'm about is examining the cultic belief system promulgated by Prempal Rawat, and the subjective and objective consequences for those caught in his maya.

JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 14:00:24 (EDT)
From: Richard II
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Dog-pile alert!
Message:
Richard II: Man JohnT, where the fuck do you get this stuff. It’s great! “Caught in an agony of reactive denial.” Whew, CW not much you can say to that now is there?

I just write it Richard. But not to sound pompous. Not when compared to your infamous 'I prefer to see the relationship between belief, knowledge and logic in a scientific way.' Your inability to examine your own beliefs in that way makes your declaration sound silly and pompous and hypocritical.

But let's not quibble. It does seem Cat has acknowledged I'm getting warm in understanding her psycho-pathology, and I am sure you are right that she will have difficulty in saying anything clever and snide in return.

Anyway, that would be a waste of time. What I'm about is examining the cultic belief system promulgated by Prempal Rawat, and the subjective and objective consequences for those caught in his maya.

JohnT
- never a premie


---

You just “write the stuff”, eh? Guess it’s OK that it doesn’t have any meaning. “Caught in an agony of reactive denial.” What the f…….???

John you’re problem is you are so fucking full of yourself. In the exchange you seem to have a need to rekindle, I started down the road of logic but all you wanted to do was to be clever and belligerent. Sorry pal, I don’t have time to waste on that kind of stuff. So do take care JohnT, who never was a premie and fancies himself a scientist.

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:25:40 (EDT)
From: Cat
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Youre still 10000 light years from home......
Message:
John..............John..............John ............
Pour youself a ahalf dozen triple scotch's. Wont kill you but sure gets you mellow. Kills the taste too.
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:35:04 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Cat
Subject: What are you saying, cat ?
Message:
John..............John..............John ............
Pour youself a ahalf dozen triple scotch's. Wont kill you but sure gets you mellow. Kills the taste too.


---

This works for you ? A trick you learned from your Master, doubtless. But surely a poor substitute for THAT bliss!

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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 22:31:35 (EDT)
From: AA Catweasel
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Re: What are you saying, cat ?
Message:
No John I can always practice . You cant . Have a little tipple
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 06:57:40 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: AA Catweasel
Subject: Carl put it rather well
Message:
Here's his complete post. I've posted just (what seems to me to be) the relevant bit below. You know Cat, your Master has told premies you know nothing. Perhaps you missed that bit!

It's so amusing to watch the premies squirm and dodge. They seem to forget that 'that experience' is not unique to them. We have also felt 'that' connection, felt 'that' grace. And may even continue to do so, in some deeply personal way, to the central energy of our lives. After all, the people in the Satpal world also claim the same thing about him. Some people are ecstatic over Jesus, or you-name-it.

I think some people are just wired for a different destiny or a different realization, perhaps as jnani-come-lately's, and have little attraction to the current bhakti-field-in-motion. It's just so curious that premies (and M!) ascribe or promote the idea of a proprietary ownership and responsibility for their individual inward experiences to that odd little Rawat fellow. Then they are smug about it. It's both funny and quite sad, like seeing grown-ups stuffing themselves into kindergarten desks and mewling in baby-talk in front of an M-featured inflated balloon. Talk about 'get a life'!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:24:45 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Funiculi Funicula-Below
Message:
Slime
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 17:04:35 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Gotcha! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:27:53 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Getting Cat to swallow the truth
Message:
How To Give A Cat A Pill

1) Pick cat up and cradle it in the crook of your left arm as if holding a baby. Position right forefinger and thumb on either side of cat's mouth and gently apply pressure to cheeks while holding pill in right hand. As cat opens mouth, pop pill into mouth. Allow cat to close mouth and swallow.

2) Retrieve pill from floor and cat from behind sofa. Cradle cat in left arm and repeat process.

3) Retrieve cat from bedroom, and throw soggy pill away.

4) Take new pill from foil wrap, cradle cat in left arm holding rear paws tightly with left hand. Force jaws open and push pill to back of mouth with right fore-finger. Hold mouth shut for a count of ten.

5) Retrieve pill from goldfish bowl and cat from top of wardrobe. Call spouse from garden.

6) Kneel on floor with cat wedged firmly between knees, hold front and rear paws. Ignore low growls emitted by cat. Get spouse to hold head firmly with one hand while forcing wooden ruler into mouth. Drop pill down ruler and rub cat's throat vigorously.

7) Retrieve cat from curtain rail, get another pill from foil wrap. Make note to buy new ruler and repair curtains. Carefully sweep shattered figurines and vases from hearth and set to one side for glueing later.

8) Wrap cat in large towel and get spouse to lie on cat with head just visible from below armpit. Put pill in end of drinking straw, force mouth open with pencil and blow down drinking straw.

9) Check label to make sure pill not harmful to humans, drink 1 beer to take taste away. Apply Band-Aid to spouse's forearm and remove blood from carpet with cold water and soap.

10) Retrieve cat from neighbour's shed. Get another pill. Open another beer. Place cat in cupboard and close door onto neck to leave head showing. Force mouth open with dessert spoon. Flick pill down throat with elastic band.

11) Fetch screwdriver from garage and put cupboard door back on hinges. Drink beer. Fetch bottle of scotch. Pour shot, drink. Apply cold compress to cheek and check records for date of last tetanus jab. Apply whisky compress to cheek to disinfect. Toss back another shot. Throw shirt away and fetch new one from bedroom.

12) Ring fire brigade to retrieve the f-k-g cat from tree across the road. Apologise to neighbour who crashed into fence while swerving to avoid cat. Take last pill from foil-wrap.

13) Tie the little b-t-d's front paws to rear paws with garden twine and bind tightly to leg of dining table, find heavy duty pruning gloves from shed. Push pill into mouth followed by large piece of fillet steak. Be rough about it. Hold head vertically and pour 2 pints of water down throat to wash pill down.

14) Consume remainder of Scotch. Get spouse to drive you to the emergency room, sit quietly while doctor stitches fingers and forearm and removes pill remnants from right eye. Call furniture shop on way home to order new table.

15) Arrange for RSPCA to collect mutant cat from hell and ring local pet shop to see if they have any hamsters.

How To Give A Dog A Pill:

1) Wrap it in bacon.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 04:49:55 (EDT)
From: Cat
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Re: Getting Cat to swallow the truth
Message:
So you see how well Jim and I get along?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 07:22:04 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Is Harry blocked FA? If so, why?
Message:
He reckons he's blocked. I don'yt agree with much of what he says but can't find any really 'blockable' behaviour of his here.

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 12:09:37 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Here's Harry's post from LG
Message:
Is this Harry Payne the security guy, perhaps? Whoever Harry is, it's interesting how quickly the Thousand Oaks bliss injection passed. - R

F6 blocked me after I wrote the real satellite expense numbers as they were having this bogus analysis of how 'little' it costs to put on an event or a satellite transmission.

Real freedom fighters, huh? I didn't attack anyone, merely couldn't stand reading that someone was depressed
over these ridiculous numbers that were being postulated/represented as the event and satellite expenses. I
also added that for a person to whom MJ doesn't make sense, I'd imagine that $1.50 would probably be too
much to pay.

I'll tell you something. I saw a real freedom fighter yesterday. Encouraging me, through all changes, mine and
his, for almost 3 decades to find the freest perception, freshest outlook, fullest lovetank, wildest worldview,
most timeless and sublime satisfaction and most resonant, perfectly tuned point within myself.

Even the fact that such a point exists, when I'm out on the prairie somewhere, is a priceless blessing. And the
occasions, all too rare, when I let myself truly submerge in that distinct, powerful and completely consistent
central throb, that feels so undeniably right, are highlights of my existence and tend to seep into other areas,
making them richer and more full-bodied. Where, if you're not overburdened with leftover
how-a-good-Hindu-boy-should-behaveisms (either for you or him), you can feel radically freed up, open-air
liberated and larger, hopefully not calorically.

So, go ahead over there. Make up whatever you want. Repeat it as often as you like. And those things that DID
happen, stretch 'em, make 'em worse and blame them all on Maharaji. That'll help folks move forward. Yes,
people can make ill-formed judgements, based on partial facts, filtered memories and personal vendettas. But
you know what? Anyone who actually really wants to get to the bottom of this and not just dance with the Dish
Patrol will go see Maharaji at some point for themselves. Which is the only way a person can even remember
whom they're talking about. And then, game's over for a lot of people because you start remembering the best
part of yourself. And he looks much different from there. As do so many things.

'Cause he's beautiful. I'm not worried for one sec about him holding his own in any situation, for if a person
really wants to see where he's coming from, it's quite apparent.

Of course, it has nothing to do with him. He's merely been the catalyst for it in the lives of oodles of real and
varied people for 35 years. Can't be any connection there

It was unmistakable yesterday. Undeniable. As plain as the sun.

Block that!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 07:40:44 (EDT)
From: David
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Dermot
Subject: No he's not
Message:
His server is probably just running slowly.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 07:54:39 (EDT)
From: David
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: David
Subject: On the other hand
Message:
Someone calling himself 'Juicy' was blocked last week and if Harry is juicy then he'll have some problems. But Harry posted here yesterday while the Juicy block was in effect, from the same ISP as Juicy so the Juicy block depends on which way it's routed?
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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 22:38:34 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: All
Subject: A post not to miss from Bob
Message:
Posted: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 20:19:24 (EDT)
Original: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 18:04:19 (EDT)
Posted by: Bob Recipient: David Smith
Email Address: Not Provided
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 98; MSOCD)

Subject: Re: He used to humliate me...
Message:

And I LOVED it. Then, I used to humiliate the premies in turn. I LOVED that too.


---

David, Are you an ex-premie now? I only recently found this website and have read only a smattering of postings so far, but I do remember seeing several (I don't recall their dates) which implied that you were still a coordinator somewhere and givin' 'em hell on the lord's behalf. I was in the Chicago Ashram when you came there after 'Millenium' in 1973. Whether you are an ex now or not, I sincerely hope you no longer traffic in humiliation for the LOVE of it! One of the reasons I left M in 1986 was due to my recognizing how he used to put people around him down constantly, in subtle and not-so-subtle ways. I used to go to the Residence every day for several years, and was around him fairly often. I don't ever ONCE remember him complimenting or praising anyone. One time there was a problem with his Mercedes that even Beverly Hills Mercedes couldn't fix. They hadn't a clue as to what was wrong even. So M was stuck. I had an idea what the problem was, but I knew it would be difficult and time consuming to fix. But I loved the guy and wanted his car to work, and he said to go ahead and try. I ended up pulling the entire dashboard out of his $80,000 Mercedes, fixed the problem the experts couldn't fix, and put it all back together again perfectly. This took days, and my body was sore from lying on his floorboards the whole time. Do you think he was grateful? Do you think he'd say 'gee,thanks, I can drive my favorite car now'? No way. All he did was mention the 'mess' I'd made while the work was in progress.(the car and garage were IMMACULATE when the job was FINISHED, however.) The tone of his half-humorous put-down was hurtful to me only because, I then realized, that I felt he was spiritually superior to me. Then I recalled that he almost ALWAYS put me and everybody else down after they would make heroic efforts on his behalf. I began to see that this was his way of keeping his devotees in their place....always doubting themselves and therefore needing him in their lives. When I saw through this ploy of his, I began to lose my respect for him. The final straw came when I was invited to his new year's party at the residence a few months later. There in his living room, in the presence of about 35 people, he got so drunk that he could barely stand. He would make incoherent statements and slur his words in the process. It seems everyone but me got a great kick out of this! But I was frankly disgusted. This guy wasn't fit to lead his own life, let alone the lives of countless sincere people around the world. That's when I quit for good. I continued to do 'service' at 'the residence', but only if they paid me $25 an hour.....Which they did for over a year, till they could find someone knowledgable enough to handle what I used to do (which wasn't automobiles, by the way).
Since leaving him my life is much more fun, free, and spiritual, as WELL as more worldly. I've come to see that there are no mistakes in the universe, and that the time I spent following this guru was NOT wasted, nor is he a 'badguy'. We all do the best we can and we all (including M) learn at our own pace. I do not envy M his opulent lifestyle, because I feel it is a SUBSTITUTE for real happiness. I sense that M is in pain, and has low self-esteem. A person who is experiencing the spiritual bliss of being alive to the moment has zero interest in putting another person down, don't you think, David?
And to want to HUMILIATE another? I can only say that, for myself, I'd have to be living in my own private self-created HELL to want to do something like that now. So, in many ways, I have compassion for M and what he must be going through, opulent lifestyle notwithstanding. He seems to have inherited the role of Perfect Charlatan from his dad and is lost in an delusional world precipitated by this form of child abuse he suffered early on. And my worldview, when I came to him in 1972, had me looking (unconsciously) for a loving father-figure, to heal my very deep father-wound. Together M and I made a perfect match to fulfill one another's fantasies. I needed a leader and he needed to be one......and in both of us, our needs were rooted in self-doubt and low self-esteem. My lesson in all this is to take responsibility for my life and what I experience in it. This makes me no longer a victim in any circumstance(since I'M the one who defines what meaning that circumstance has for me), and to not blame others, because doing so defines me as a powerless victim (which was why I came to M in the first place). So that was a great lesson to learn and it only took 14 years....some people may never learn it in a lifetime!

THIS IS A GREAT WEBSITE, ISN'T IT?
Love, Bob
(edit this message

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 17:03:50 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Thanks Bob,feel free to post again nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 00:12:35 (EDT)
From: Ian Dury
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Yo, premies!
Message:
I CAN'T WAIT to see how you are going to rationalize this post from Bob, who, by the way, WAS THERE, but that never really matters, right?

Let's hear from some of you know-it-alls who have never been closer to Rawat than the hundredth row at some program!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 01:12:41 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: Ian Dury
Subject: Yo! Ian Drury
Message:
If you can't get fall down drunk in your own house, where can you?
This is the point you guys never get.
M has a right to a private life.
This isn't some Big Brother TV program.
Or do you think that movie stars must always wear movie makeup, so that fools won't be shocked and disappointed?
If you hide a camera in the toilet, I'm sure you'll find M shits as well.
Grow up!
PT
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 21:03:57 (EDT)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: Yo Passing ThroughI
Message:
Please can you tell me how you manage to be comfortable and still a premie after reading all the stuff on the ex-premie sites. Especially the Michael Dettmers stuff. Do you think he is lying? i think theres nothing wrong with getting drunk, even in the street and I probably wouldn't mind if Maharaji got drunk, stoned,was even richer than he is and had sex with loads of women if he was open about it.
I always imagined, although he did seem a little arrogant and for a long time I wished he would say he wasn't the only way, I always imagined he conformed to my idea of a good person ie reasonably honest and respectful.
For me I was always a back row sort of premie and didn't know about anything of this until I happened upon these sites and found my whole view of Maharaji changed overnight. I honestly would like to know how you and any other premies who read this site deal with this information in any other way than entertaining massive doubts. I know there is a lot of bitterness in some of the stuff but a lot of the information seems very sincere to me.
Hoping for enlightenment!
Peg
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Date: Thurs, Aug 02, 2001 at 19:00:58 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: Drunk in your own house
Message:
is no problem, although falling down drunk is best avoided.

Back in the ashram days the ashram WAS GMJ's own house, or so we were told. Anyone whose breath was tainted with the merest 1/2 pint of beer in those days was a social outcast. The falling down drunks got the old heave ho sharpish.

There's a thought; Rawat should chuck himself out of his house on the grounds that unconscious people cannot be permitted to lower the tone in the house of god.

The theological implications are mind boggling I must admit, but I'm sure EV is just holding back its big guns on that front.

The big debate for the 21st century : How come GOD can get lashed in His own house but GOD's followers who are also living in GOD's own house can't. What is the nature of this god? Is he divisible or indivisible? Manifest or unmanifest....etc etc, or just maybe could he be a kind of 'cosmic joke' god hitherto unsuspected in the literature, or indeed in the mind of man before this perfect point in history.

The great hypocrite god of the late 20th century when white was black & black was the new white & so on & so forth in the Time of Lies.

This one will run & run; beats the how many angels can dance on the head of a pin debate into a cocked hat.

That's the point.

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Date: Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 23:41:26 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Is this Bob Kirby, by chance?
Message:
Bob Kirby and I ignited our ex-ness together. Haven't heard from him since he left L.A. in the late eighties and I, soon, after.

Bob, is that you?

In any event, great post, Bob, whoever-you-are.

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Date: Sat, Jul 14, 2001 at 09:24:56 (BST)
From: Mr D
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Mr D
Subject: Or do they?
Message:
I dunno.



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