Dermot -:- Parting shot:)Brit TV tonght -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 12:08:15 (EDT)

__ Dermot -:- 9PM BBC2 NT -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 12:11:37 (EDT)

kap -:- now some will listen -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 09:49:50 (EDT)

__ salam -:- sure -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 12:04:37 (EDT)

__ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: now some will listen -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 10:17:30 (EDT)

Salam -:- da'lil swami -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 05:32:20 (EDT)

Disculta -:- Dear children of God (revised) -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 04:28:22 (EDT)

__ janet -:- Re: Dear children of God (revised) -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 08:22:01 (EDT)

__ Salam -:- Re: Dear children of God (revised) -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 05:44:48 (EDT)

BeenThereDoneThat -:- Any ex-Indian premies? -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:30:30 (EDT)

__ Patrick Wilson -:- Re: Any ex-Indian premies? -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 08:34:56 (EDT)

__ such -:- A: Dr. David Lane did experiments -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:51:59 (EDT)

__ __ Disculta -:- Techs without Massa -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:58:09 (EDT)

__ __ __ janet -:- Re: Techs without Massa -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 08:42:48 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Patrick Wilson -:- Re: Techs without Massa -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 10:01:22 (EDT)

Dermot -:- Like the Chinese cultural Revolutions -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 22:31:07 (EDT)

__ wolfie -:- Re: Like the Chinese cultural Revolutions -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 10:38:06 (EDT)

__ don puerco -:- Re: Like the Chinese cultural Revolutions -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 07:17:01 (EDT)

__ Disculta -:- Chinese Cultural Cult -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:08:24 (EDT)

__ suchabanana -:- I bought it:hook,line,sinker,too... -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:43:35 (EDT)

__ __ Disculta -:- Yeah Such! -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:14:40 (EDT)

Sir Dave -:- The dynamics of an online forum -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 21:22:26 (EDT)

__ Barry -:- RrrRrraaaalllphhhhh! -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 23:58:43 (EDT)

__ Bin Liner -:- I won't argue , just off to chuck up :) [nt] -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 21:42:06 (EDT)

swami j. suchabanana -:- god/savior claims:fact/fiction? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 16:17:05 (EDT)

__ la-ex -:- You hippies want permanent LSD? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 18:20:08 (EDT)

__ Timmi -:- Re: god/savior claims:fact/fiction? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 17:34:06 (EDT)

__ __ Bobo -:- Re: god/savior claims:fact/fiction? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:52:15 (EDT)

Joe -:- Can Anyone Track Down this Case? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:20:25 (EDT)

__ Salam -:- Re: Can Anyone Track Down this Case? -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 06:07:32 (EDT)

__ __ Salam -:- Re: Can Anyone Track Down this Case? -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 06:16:20 (EDT)

__ janet -:- Re: Can Anyone Track Down this Case? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 15:50:22 (EDT)

__ Jim -:- Fantastic! -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:25:30 (EDT)

__ __ Francesca :C) -:- Lexis and West's -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 15:51:35 (EDT)

__ __ such -:- The case deserves an EPO spot! -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:56:42 (EDT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Yes, but needs be more documented -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:10:04 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- No defamation trial in France -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 12:03:42 (EDT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- and furthermore -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 12:44:29 (EDT)

__ __ la-ex -:- Do EV contributors know this? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:37:56 (EDT)

__ __ __ Joey -:- importance of English translation of Combat -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 16:26:20 (EDT)

__ __ __ such -:- wondering the same -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:44:45 (EDT)

__ __ __ Ulf -:- he is a fox -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:50:51 (EDT)

__ __ Joe -:- Going to Court? Are you nuts? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:02:18 (EDT)

__ __ __ donner -:- exactly joe, NT -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:00:31 (EDT)

__ __ __ Francesca ~) -:- Spin control -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:21:15 (EDT)

EBay Alert -:- 74 Penthouse w/Pie throwing article -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 08:29:11 (EDT)

__ Barry -:- Comic? -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 00:03:11 (EDT)

__ Joey -:- Does anyone know.....?... -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 21:57:21 (EDT)

Dave -:- It could be worse -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 07:59:37 (EDT)

__ Silvia -:- Disgusting -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:08:55 (EDT)

__ Liz -:- Re: It could be worse -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 09:46:35 (EDT)

__ __ Dave -:- Re: It could be worse -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 12:04:25 (EDT)

Francesca -:- Bazza's link -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 01:02:27 (EDT)

la-ex -:- Dissension at the'Foundation'? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 00:08:22 (EDT)

__ Joe -:- Recurring Story -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 12:54:47 (EDT)

__ __ Steve M -:- Doing full time service -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:11:35 (EDT)

__ __ donner -:- Re: Recurring Story -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:11:49 (EDT)

__ __ __ Janet -:- Re: Recurring Story -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 15:27:09 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ donner -:- Re: Recurring Story -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 00:46:24 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Yo Donner, re Monroe etc. -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:23:04 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Talk about cluttering up the page! -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:27:30 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Bobo -:- Re: snakes and ants -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 17:49:42 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ donner -:- Re: snakes and ants -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 00:50:43 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Gobble, gobble! nt -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:01:55 (EDT)

__ __ Richard -:- Re: Recurring Story -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:17:35 (EDT)

McGruff -:- Re: Dissension **TOTAL BS** -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 10:53:15 (EDT)

__ la-ex -:- Don't get gruff, mcgruff.... -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:47:25 (EDT)

__ __ Little Mo -:- Re: Don't get gruff, mcgruff.... -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:00:07 (EDT)

__ __ __ Forum God +) -:- Nice script -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:06:06 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Little Mo -:- Re: Nice script -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:33:51 (EDT)

__ Ian Dury -:- The rats ARE leaving the ship! -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:00:47 (EDT)

__ Ian Dury -:- Re: Dissension at the'Foundation'? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 08:14:57 (EDT)

__ __ donner -:- Re: Dissension at the'Foundation'? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:18:31 (EDT)

__ annie -:- Re: Dissension at the'Foundation'? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 05:09:29 (EDT)

__ JHB -:- Re: Dissension at the'Foundation'? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 04:02:27 (EDT)

__ __ wolfie -:- Re: Dissension at the'Foundation'? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 06:17:56 (EDT)

__ __ __ dv -:- Nice quote, Wolf!: ' Life is too short, -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 18:10:55 (EDT)

__ __ __ donner -:- Re: Dissension at the'Foundation'? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:25:36 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ wolfie -:- Re: Dissension at the'Foundation'? -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 11:26:04 (EDT)

__ suchabanana -:- shoulda listened to Mr. 'Natural', way back when -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 01:17:23 (EDT)

Jim -:- Why I'm even MORE certain now that Bazza's 'Rob' -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 20:58:24 (EDT)

__ Roger eDrek -:- The voice of Rob, maybe? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 12:36:15 (EDT)

__ __ Jim -:- How we left it -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:23:55 (EDT)

__ Richard -:- Does this mean Bazza is an Ex Ex? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 00:43:56 (EDT)

__ __ janet -:- Re: Does this mean Bazza is an Ex Ex? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:27:02 (EDT)

__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Wonder if Bazza was X-Rated? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:41:01 (EDT)

__ Jim -:- Two more tidbits -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 00:43:17 (EDT)

__ Catweasel -:- Yeah? -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 22:38:27 (EDT)

__ __ Ian Dury -:- CW-Rawat must be REAL PROUD of YOU! (nt) -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 15:43:22 (EDT)

__ __ Silvia -:- You are so disgusting: FA BLOCK this guy -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:42:37 (EDT)

__ __ __ CW -:- You are so illegible -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:08:05 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Silvia -:- Is that an insult? No -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 20:48:01 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Sir Dave }( -:- Any worse & I'm deleting you Cat -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 20:18:00 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Re: Any worse & I'm deleting you Cat -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 23:56:31 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jamie Catweasel -:- Re: Any worse & I'm deleting you Cat -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 00:38:29 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- that is funny -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 06:31:06 (EDT)

__ __ Dermot -:- Yep I DID WONDER Catweasle -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 05:39:53 (EDT)

__ __ PatC ;) -:- You took the words out of my mouth -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 03:29:50 (EDT)

__ __ __ donner -:- Re: You took the words out of my mouth -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:32:36 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ PatC ;) -:- Excuse me for being so unsynchronized -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 15:32:13 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- I'm with Donner on this one -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 16:20:45 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- You're missing the point, methinks -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 17:16:16 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ donner -:- Re: You're missing the point, methinks -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 18:43:21 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- I'm very fond of Bazza -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 16:39:40 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- you've lost your head ot -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:09:52 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Aren't we self-righteous today? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 15:10:50 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ donner -:- Re: Aren't we self-righteous today? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 18:49:07 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- My aren't we lightweight today too? -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:42:24 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ donner -:- Re: My aren't we lightweight today too? -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 00:12:41 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- If you don't care Donner -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:57:54 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ donner -:- Re: If you don't care Donner -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:17:03 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Yep Donner -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:59:03 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- 'not look' near end not 'look' -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:59:59 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- It's Monday. Dermot -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 15:38:42 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Re: It's Monday. Dermot -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 17:24:46 (EDT)

__ __ __ Catweasel -:- Spy vs Spy -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 06:34:08 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- The ever important Catweasel -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:39:25 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ w -:- Re: The ever important Catweasel -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 05:10:44 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: The ever important Catweasel -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:11:18 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Drek v Weasle? Drek, any day NT -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 20:09:22 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Drek Sucks -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:22:46 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Ha hahahahahahaha HA! -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:29:17 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: Ha hahahahahahaha HA! -:- Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 09:30:31 (EDT)

Deborah -:- Regarding the EPO newsletter -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 20:57:48 (EDT)

__ Salam -:- Re: Regarding the EPO newsletter -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 06:13:33 (EDT)

__ wolfie -:- see you later...thanks NT -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 02:46:57 (EDT)

__ Selene -:- I'll be in touch -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 22:14:35 (EDT)

__ Francesca :C) -:- Take care of yourself! -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 21:34:18 (EDT)

__ __ Richard -:- We've been using **Best Of** -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 00:29:29 (EDT)

Dermot -:- Does any ex remember -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:34:30 (EDT)

__ Ian Dury -:- My recollection -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 07:48:11 (EDT)

__ Richard -:- Archives were purged -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 18:54:07 (EDT)

__ Silvia -:- I still have many of them -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:34:05 (EDT)

__ __ Dermot -:- Maybe scan some -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:39:12 (EDT)

__ __ __ Silvia -:- Re: Maybe scan some -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:57:46 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Re: Maybe scan some -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:30:37 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- Re: Maybe scan some -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 12:06:58 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Dermot--check email [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 19:27:23 (EDT)

__ __ Deborah -:- Re: Silvia, hold on to them -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:36:00 (EDT)

__ __ __ silvia -:- I Just responded -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:58:57 (EDT)

Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 12:08:15 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: All Subject: Parting shot:)Brit TV tonght Message:

For any Brits (Northern Europeans if you can get it) there's a 1 hour documentary in the 'Reputations' series (usually informative and interesting). Tonights subject is Rev Moon. The blurb goes : ' Leader of the Moonies and self-proclaimed Messiah of all Mankind,Rev. Sun Myung Moonis a man who provokes strong reactions. To his friends -including George Bush Snr and Edward Heath (former Brit PM btw)- he is a hero and a man of profound spirituality. To others, he is a fraudulent Dr. No figurewho brainwashes his followers and plans to dominate the world. This in-depth profile tries to reveal the truth behind the two extremes.' Could be interesting. Not wholly similar to Rev Rawat but it will be revealing all the same. Now , once and for all, it's time for my sabbatical :) See you in the Light Jai Sat and all that .... Dermot

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 12:11:37 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Dermot Subject: 9PM BBC2 NT Message:

XX

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 09:49:50 (EDT) From: kap Email: qwerty@pdai.com To: All Subject: now some will listen Message:

Maybe now that the ex prems are on a new site more interest will be taken in the fact that 2 mahatmas came to my appartment to kill me long ago b ye kap

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 12:04:37 (EDT) From: salam Email: None To: kap Subject: sure Message:

kap the krapp

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 10:17:30 (EDT) From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: kap Subject: Re: now some will listen Message:

No, the change of location does not change the craziness of your claim.

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 05:32:20 (EDT) From: Salam Email: None To: All Subject: da'lil swami Message:

denial page

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 04:28:22 (EDT) From: Disculta Email: None To: All Subject: Dear children of God (revised) Message:

I am up with a bit of insomnia, waiting for the benadryl to take, so I went to Enjoying Life for the first time, and found this revisionist quote from MJ about the time he ascended the throne: He recounted his memory of that day, in July 1966 , at Prem Nagar ashram in the North Indian town of Hardwar, to those who had made it to this 'surprise event': 'A long time ago, on this day, there was a big gathering of people... and they were crying because my father had passed away. And nobody knew what was going to happen. I came on and I said: 'Don't cry. That's not what you've been shown. That's not what you've been told. True, this is a very awkward situation and a very painful situation but what you've been shown is incredible joy inside. Don't you know that's what it's all about.' 'I don't even exactly remember all the words that I said. I was very young, but I could see that people didn't know, and people needed to be reminded of that one thing that makes a difference in our lives.' I remember something like, Dear children of God, why are you weeping. I am here. The perfect master never dies etc.. Am I imagining this?

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 08:22:01 (EDT) From: janet Email: None To: Disculta Subject: Re: Dear children of God (revised) Message:

well, ya know, the memory goes as one ages, especially after 40, so it's real handy to have movie footage of the event by which to remember the exact words. and hey- there just happens to be such a movie, by the title 'satguru has come', which wonderfully refreshes our collective memories when viewed, for we can hear and see again, just as if we were on the stage that day with little prem pal, when he stepped up to the mike and exhorted the crowds to recognize that Maharaji never leaves, that he is before you now, so obey him, worship him and adore him! yes, indeed, he said the very words you so clearly recall. 'dear children, why are you weeping?'

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 05:44:48 (EDT) From: Salam Email: None To: Disculta Subject: Re: Dear children of God (revised) Message:

maybe he needs his memory juggled

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:30:30 (EDT) From: BeenThereDoneThat Email: None To: All Subject: Any ex-Indian premies? Message:

Tinkering on the edge of what I'm beginning to fear is a nervous breakdown, I wonder if any Indian premies have left and talked about it....I took the advice and read the lengthy history. Whew! This is a lot to digest. The thing is, if Maharaji isn't a perfect master then what is the point of all this? That's what I'd like to ask. Did DLM/EV think a person like myself took the techniques because I needed to mellow out? I'd already been through transcendental meditation and it meant nothing. For me, Maharaji and the techniques and everything that came with it was the only reason I accepted it. A perfect master, the lord,was an entirely different story. It never occurred to me such a thing was posible and then of course, why shouldn't it be possible? I was asked here if I thought a person couldn't experience what k promises without ties to Maharaji. I honestly never thought about it. The techniques could have been anything in reality. I could have been standing on my head. They came from Maharaji. And of course we've been told that people get these techniques out of books etc and they don't mean a thing until the person is connected to Maharaji. I accepted that totally. Does anyone know of someone who does these techniques and has a pleasant experience without ever being tied to m/ev/dlm?

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 08:34:56 (EDT) From: Patrick Wilson Email: patrick@patrickwilson.com To: BeenThereDoneThat Subject: Re: Any ex-Indian premies? Message:

I personally think that the meditation techniques (practices) will work for anyone who is prepared to do them intently enough. The rewards are clearly realated to the degree of sincerity, conscientiousness, time and effort which one puts in. It's that simple. The interpretation of the more 'trans-personal' experiences that one has in meditation, whether it be Light, Sound, Stillness, Nectar, Bliss is, to my mind, where the whole thing becomes messy - given the huge variety and wishful-thinkingness of these interpretations and the variety of the beliefs about who (or what) one should thank for them. What a guru / teacher / master / authority figure (or whatever you want to call it) brings into the equation that could possibly be interpreted as 'positive', is that they can persuade you (by hook or by crook!) to actually make the practice a part of your life and that it is at all necessary, beneficial or usually 'essential to your soul' for you to do so! (ie from the old satsangs whereby if you don't you will be born as a worm or mollusc in your next life etc.to the modern more toned down threat that you will be prey to negativity or just plain missing out on appreciating life with The Master ). In short they sell it to you which involves them saying 'you have a need for this -this is what you are really missing' etc. In practice, the negative side is that usually there is a lot of very undivine power play, manipulation, humiliation, threats of the consequences of ignoring the advise, religion, dependency and general 'cultism' that goes along with this. One has to seriously weigh up the pros and cons. I haven't been to a satsang for several years although I do discuss the subject passionately with premies very often. I fully admit that for years Maharaji fulfilled the role of an adopted teacher, in that he encouraged me to meditate - as I said sometimes through inspiration and sometimes through scare tactics (visa-vi during his Kissimee satsangs). Clearly in India there have been and still are other Guru's that play this role quite satisfactorily for their followers. Indeed they practice the same techniques and their teachings are absolutely proven to be different branches of the exact same tree. For example, Maharaji's father's guru, Sarupanand actually spawned a generation of several would-be 'Satgurus' of whom Shri Hans was but one. The followers of these new gurus are similarly impressed with the results of their Guru's power as any premie is with their Maharaji, although Shri Hans may have been apparently more succesful. Of course Maharaji's very own brother Satpal, has a large following of satisfied customers and yet they claim that Maharaji is a bogus renegade who is misleading his flock. Premies believe the converse. Common sense tells me that what makes one follow a particular guru is not so much a matter of whether they are or are not the real Mcoy. (If there is indeed such a singular entity in reality), but more whether their appeal is to our taste, acceptable, on a more social level. One can see that Maharaji, as a young Guru and in the spirit of the times, had considerable appeal to us westerners. It is of no surprise that he has achieved great success, indeed possibly greater success (in terms of number of converts globally) than some of his Indian similars who are still bogged down in their own limited cultural appeal. Maharaji's success seems largely due to his having sold the 'Knowledge' in a manner which has appealed to westerners . He has moved with the tastes of the times. It was very much in his favour that at the time he started out in the 70's, there was considerable affection by young westerners for all things Indian and the mysterious East. It was therefore not neccessary at all for him, at first, to drop the more traditional Indian religious aspects of his inherited teachings. In fact it was only when he himself became enamoured of all things western that he felt that it may look a bit odd to be subjecting his 'devotees' carte-blanche to such a culturally different regime and one which became increasingly contradictory to his own behaviour and obviously unpalatable to the majority of people of the world - who he intends to propagate his teachings to. So he changed his tune. To your question: Does anyone know of someone who does these techniques and has a pleasant experience without ever being tied to m/ev/dlm? I personally occasionally do the techniques and don't consider myself tied in this way although the experience is there. In some ways I miss the encouragement that comes from the whole Maharaji/premie scene -but against that I am weighing up a) How much does this experience really mean to me and how much time do I really want or need to give it? b) Could I stomache the negative part of the Maharaji scene and influence in my life enough to feel that it is worth pursuing? At the moment the bad effects seem to have out-weighed the good , so I find myself , somewhat reluctantly, but not without some considerable reward, going it alone in the universe for once. As I said once here, it got to a point where I was having a physical gut reaction to going to programs so in a way, my body told me to back off -I was getting ill. For me I think rewards of backing off from M's influence have been: Not feeling torn apart and guilty about having misgivings. Beng healthier and happier as a result. I am really on my own and finding out how I really feel - rejecting as it were - the sugestions of others about what I should feel and to whom I should be grateful. Ie. I have to really consider and work things out for myself. Not dependant on meditation like some drug or anaesthetic to make the day bearable or to stave off negativity -thinking etc. Not feeling 'obliged or pressured' in any way, which I did as a premie -certainly to ''practice' and 'attend' -'be involved' etc. Having to really look at myself and my integrity and to take more responsibility for my life- in itself this is a great pleasure. Not feeling intimidated by him as an authority figure. Shedding a whole load of beliefs about him and the idea of a Master as a part of some universal plan from a higher power to redeem mankind. Not having to interpret my meditational experiences -peace- as being dependant or revealed by Maharaji - and not feeling that I owe him for anything. I feel that Krishnasuchanand showed me how to do something on 28 July 1974 that, although was presented as a secret Knowledge, should be, in a healthy world, common knowledge. Being able to see how Maharaji, religions and their teachers actually work and how there are very prosaic explanations for the things that I supposed, believed and assumed with wishfull thinking, were examples of 'His Grace'. Dealing with a formless unknown God again in my prayers - not holding Maharaji in my mind as some idol or icon or adopted archetype for something that in reality I do not know. Not worrying that I somehow harbour an 'evil mind' which is, like some inner traitor, plotting against me. Nor that I need to be 'saved' from this by some God. Having more time to enjoy life in other ways. Keeping my earnings entirely for my family and I to benefit from. I stopped smoking too - I have an extra £35 a week in my pocket that's £1820 a year. Practicing Knowledge ain't so cheap either!! Not feeling that I have to guard any secrets or be held to some vows that I made ages ago under some duress and as a naive, sincere but anxious teenager. Not trusting in someone whom I feel let me down to some extent in the past - after I had invested much faith in him, and made many sacrifices to serve him full-time. What I am saying is that it is a relief to admit to oneself, against the strong emotional reluctance to do so, that one really does not trust someone for clear reasons and that one has in some ways been an emotional prisoner of that person.

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:51:59 (EDT) From: such Email: None To: BeenThereDoneThat Subject: A: Dr. David Lane did experiments Message:

Dr. David Lane showed some of the same meditation techniques to his college students. They reported the same experiences as premies have. Other people have done these techs w/o a guru. Others and I have also experienced inner light and sounds ever since we were kids -- many years before becoming adults and ever hearing about a young self-proclaimed boy-god-satguru named miragey. We naively bought into the now-evident maha materialist empowerment/enrichment trip -- because of the well-promoted savior/guru-god incarnate + kn. connection, bringing peace to the world, etc. - like a fulfillment of Aquarian hippie pipe dreams.

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:58:09 (EDT) From: Disculta Email: None To: such Subject: Techs without Massa Message:

There is a post somewhere below (anyone remember it and can repost) from someone who went to a satsang of another satguru with the exact same techniques, story about P.M./Lord, etc. They were all having blissful experiences. I have met followers of Charan Singh and Kirpal Singh who got the techniques, thought they were following the one P.M. of the age, and were having blissful experiences. There is a lot of information about all this on EPO, especially in the Radha Soami section. And beyond that, many of us who post here (although not me) have continued to practice the techniques after leaving the massa, and many have reported that it is better, freer - that is if he didn't get so far into their head that they are consumed with guilt and confusion. The fact that so many go through these agonizing feelings regarding something inside their own being demonstrates what a mindfuck MJ's trip can be. love Katie Darling

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 08:42:48 (EDT) From: janet Email: None To: Disculta Subject: Re: Techs without Massa Message:

i have a friend who came to me 10 years ago as a confused, emotional boy of 20, and I made a cautious decision to help him and taught him as much as i could while he stayed with me. I never showed him the techniques, but he did come to programs with me to see MJ in person. Every time he asked to receive knowledge, they refused him, because we never went to videos and no one but me knew him, so they didnt think he was sincere or 'preparing' properly. This guy used to sit with me when i meditated, just trying to be quiet and go into the silence and find his center as best as he could, without getting any techniques or whtever. First he got nectar. it came over him repeatedly outta nowhere. i was thrilled for him and explained it. some time months later, he heard the sound and went into it and went far away with it, and came back a changed man. I explained that one too, and shared his amazement. the kicker was the day years later when he was meditating alone by himself and came in , radiant, to tell me he had gone into the Light for the first time, and once there, it had answered everyquestion he had ever wanted to know--which imediately gave rise to a whole new slew of questions! and he knew the Light had all those answers for him, too, if he could just stay IN there. He stood there, blazing and excited and confided to me that he understood, now, and realized why meditation was a discipline you had to work at. He told me--completely without my commenting--that he saw how his mind got in the way of his staying there and soaking it up, and he was gonna really bukcle down and practice, cause he wanted to go there again like he just had. no knowledge session. no videos. not the remotest instruction in the four techniques. never met a mahatma, never did pranam, never once set foot in an ashram or the residence. but he got nectar, sound and the light, full blast.

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 10:01:22 (EDT) From: Patrick Wilson Email: patrick@patrickwilson.com To: janet Subject: Re: Techs without Massa Message:

Interesting story Janet. You reminded me that I saw Light, with my eyes closed, very brightly before even hearing about Knowledge - I was really very much as you descibe this boy . I however assumed, when M came along, that anyone who was teaching or promoting this Light was trustworthy. I am wondering whether this young boy maybe went on to receive Knowledge. It seems that Knowledge - Maharaji's teachings - at the end of the day, are inescapably about recognising that Maharaji is somehow the Guardian or the living manifestation of this inner Light and Being of Wisdom - God in short...or at least that he can show you your own God within and continue to guide you in that prescence. At least that it how it has been for me and most premies I know (from my generation). After I got Knowledge in '74, I practised all the time with increased gusto and more and more, I naturally interpreted it and associated it with Maharaji. There was however a lot of suggestion about this at satsang - it was not as if I saw Maharaji's face beaming out of the Light inside! Whereas once I had experienced this Light inside as a brief revelationary contact with a friendly 'un-named' formless God I now learned to completely associate it with Maharaji the man. Of course my trust in him became implicit and I soon sacrificed my worldly aspirations to do what he wanted - which at the time meant becoming an ashram premie. The word God became synonymous with the word Maharaji, and similarly with the man. All I can say is that following Maharaji the man, and his instructions at the time, resulted in my having a rather rough time and I basically did not enjoy life so much as a 'surrendering premie' . In retrospect it was an extremely drab, often humiliating time, punctuated with a general feeling of hope that better times would unfold - or be given to me. Also I had many suppressed misgivings about the surrender stuff, the pressure to dedicate, the Hindu influences and the general craziness and selfishness in premiedom. I think that the whole premie world was basically a disappointment (as Maharaji turned out to be in some ways) although I just stomached it at the time . I reckon I would have been a lot happier, made more of my life, and indeed done more really sincere meditation if I had not been so caught up in the external world of 'becoming a devotee' and all the dependancy that that entailed. And I really do hold Maharaji responsible for intimidating, as well as inspiring me, to make choices about surrendering to him . I don't buy this talk that to hold Maharaji partly responsible for the choices one made as a premie amounts to having the attitude of an obsessive victim. I credit Maharaji for a lot of inspiration and encouragement but I cannot ignore that in many ways he put me off the very knowledge I enjoyed. It's strange but true! For me, after many years as a premie exploring and practicing this belief (which in many ways seemed reinforced by experiences) I feel that it is really a folly to believe that, just because someone speaks about , or even speaks to your heart about these experiences, that they necessarily deserve gratitude or service, or indeed that they are authorities on the real puropose of life as a human being. It has been extremely hard to come to terms with the fact that Maharaji seems to have been occasionally deceitful, made mistakes and is himself a far more 'earthly' person than the divine master that he associated himself with by implication. I suppose he speaks of 'Maharaji' in the 3rd person a lot of the time to make the distinction that he is, on one level, this ordinary fellow with all the faults, quirks, talents or whatever. On the other level he implies that there is this Master and that he somehow is that too. The confusion for me arose in that it was the former, the flesh and blood man Maharaji, who gave 'Agya', said I should dedicate my life, etc. etc. not this formless being that is Lotus-like, and beyond the world and disaccociated from it's chosen channel's vices and mundanity.. I therefore feel he has some responsibility, some ABILITY to help people make the distinction that he seems so clear about, between who they should follow and serve.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 22:31:07 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: All Subject: Like the Chinese cultural Revolutions Message:

As I'm about to take a sabbatical from all things Rawatist I thought I'd take a good mooch round the EPO site as I haven't done so for a while. Boy did it take me back! Way back. So far back that I was recalling the days and weeks just before receiving the beloved Divine gift of knowledge. It got me thinking how , at first, I tried to resist the lure of Guru Maharaj jis offer. In the end though the cult snatched me up and gobbled me whole.( destined to reside in its stomach for …wait for it…….a quarter of a century ) Anyway, Before you could say 'Jack Robinson' I was serving in the upstairs café as an aspirant for a few months before 'initiation' (not too demanding…just 7 or 8 AM to midnight , 7 days per week…quit a job, signed on the dole and got a bedsittter a short walk from the Palace) but hold on I'm jumping ahead here. It also got me thinking how the present day premies say we are just deadbeats stuck in the 70's and not only that, they also claim we are deliberately lying about our experiences. They claim a whole load of stuff just never in fact happened. Take Such's recent post on LG . He was contrasting present day Maharaji comments with latter day Guru Maharaji comments. One premie accused him of using ' dated' material and claiming, therefore, that it wasn't valid. Well, excuse me , Mr and Mrs Modern day premie , as recently as Thousand Oaks Mr Master was talking about this being a lifetime (should I repeat that? Lifetime) journey. He also talked about right up until the moment of death. Elsewhere he still talks in terms of eternity and infinity. So in that context, I'd sure like to know where this concept of ' dated' fits in. It doesn't does it? I mean what's 30 or so years give or take a few? I mean generally ( for the very reason of avoiding the accusation of being stuck in the 70's )I try to avoid going back so far and keep things as up to date as possible but hold on one goddamm minute this is also about my life, my life experience, my history. I'll be damned if some jerk here in 2001 says I'm deluded or lying and thus rewrite history so that he sits comfortably in his cult. So anyway, what is it? It's about July 1973 and there I am , sharing a flat in London with an old college mate. I'm 22 years old. We are just aimlessly dropping acid, smoking dope, drinking booze, grabbing as much sex as we can, going to as many live bands as we can and occasionally , in quieter moments, contemplating whether there is a deeper meaning to life apart from the everyday debauchery that we were wallowing in. Then down below , move two premie couples sharing the large garden flat (apartment) below. Not your average suited ashram types. Cool, friendly tokers but pretty regular satsang goers and financial contributors to the Mission Before long I'm down there listening in awe and asking so many questions wheras my flat mate reckons it is just a weird cult. 'You gotta be fucking joking man ' he tells me. 'That little fat Indian kid ….some sort of god, avatar, messenger, perfect master or whatever.! ' I thought he had a point . Then again these premies and the things they said ….man , it sounds enticing! I'll just go to the Palace of Peace and if I think it's a weird cult…..well I'll just refuse to be drawn in. Besides, I'd already given up the Cathoilic faith and I definitely won't get into any strange devotional trip. What do I find at the Palace . A large table covered with a white cloth and lots of fruit on it and a big picture of the boy guru. Well fuck me ! It's an altar ! Not only that EVERYONE who comes in bows down to it ( pranams , as I'd later find out). Many people would bring fruit or whatever with them and place it on the alatr. Jesus Christ! Tis is worse than the catholic church. As the meeting gets under way I hear all this weird shouting ' BHOLIE SHRI SATGURUDEV MAHARAJ KI JAI!!! BHOLIE SHRI SATGURUDEV MAHAR KI JAI!!! Over and over again. Sort of fanatical chanting.Also passionately sung songs like ' THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE HAS COME TO US TODAY ' People wearing huge badges of the boy on their lapels. A newspaper called DIVINE TIMES claiming the LORD WAS IN LONDON. Yep it really said that in big headlines. I'm a bit stoned on some good Lebanese and I'm thinking ' WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS PLACE !!!!! GET ME OUTA HERE. ' I freaked and told these new friends of mine ' no thanks' ! They didn't give up on me though .Many a night of toking, talking and cajoling for me to just go one more time. It wasn't long before I was serving at the Palace, given up all smoking and drugs and considered my premie friends back in the flat as a little bit space out, Sort of not really focused. Nice enough and all but really!! What were they doing as just part time devotees !! These days the ELAN VITAL web site says that stuff didn't go on. Maharaji didn't claim anything of the sort. Well excuse me once again ……I lived it. Here on planet earth, in flesh and blood. Ii went on to give mind , body and soul as it happens. I lived in ashrams. None of your one hour a day meditation. Threee or four hours if you don't mind. All sorts of service activities. Satsang till it was coming out of my ears. Yep I lived it . It happened. I was there. Believe me , I was there. It lasted YEARS. So fuck of MR and Mrs Modern day premie. Fuck off Elan Vital. Fuck off Prem pal singh Rawat. Don't tell me I imagined you said and did all that stuff. I was you !! Don't you remember????? You swallowed me up. .

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 10:38:06 (EDT) From: wolfie Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Re: Like the Chinese cultural Revolutions Message:

Hi Dermot, sure your Mum and Dad had told you not to take drugs, maybe you would not have spent 25 years in a cult. No I don't mean it serious. I was a macrobiotic freak at that time, and had already stopped takeing drugs and I ended up under the same conditions as you as a devotee of the Lord of the Universe. I gave up my studies, sold my records, gave away my golden watch, gave away my money and my furnitures, moved in a premiecenter, worked for jumble sales. Satsang every night. Fakiranand told us to have two or three jobs and 4 hours of meditation, and we should use every chance to give satsang to people evrywhere we are but when we go to the toilette we should take off our MJ-buttons and we should prostrate before every picture of MJ even before MJ-posters on the streets. MJ himself said: Premies don't be shy to shout out my name in the streets. And remember the slogan: who can chang atombombs into flowers? ' GURU MAHARAJI' and he said: ' When God would have manifested one year later, it would be too late' Can you imagine what would have had happend when he would have come one year later? I was pretty naiv at that time. Now my kids are in the same age like I was át that time and I would have a lot of sorrows when my kids would now end up in a similar situation. But my kids were allways distanced to that MJ-thing. There was a time, were I thougt, I have done something wrong in educating my kids because they never showed any interst in M and K even I once have taken my son to a programm in India. Today I think I have done something good. They times they are a changing. ciao .....nice to hear your story.....same time, same places...wolfie

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 07:17:01 (EDT) From: don puerco Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Re: Like the Chinese cultural Revolutions Message:

those were the days my friend, i thought they'd never end...

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:08:24 (EDT) From: Disculta Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Chinese Cultural Cult Message:

I have friend who escaped from Maoist China. Her boyfriend was killed in Tianenmen Square. It is very interesting talking to her, because I never realized to what degree Communist China was just like DLM. Mao was considered as God. She has written a book called The White Haired Girl which is painful to read. Remember how all our friends used to think we were wearing badges with Mao's pic on? Love Katie Darling who was also at the Palace of Peace and we weren't imagining any of it and yes it went on for years and years and apparently is still going on in a covert manner.

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:43:35 (EDT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Dermot Subject: I bought it:hook,line,sinker,too... Message:

[reposted from LG today] like Dermot, I bought into the whole Lord of the Universe satguru saviour of the new Millenium we're gonna bring peace on Earth now cult movement - myself coming out of the hippie and anti-war movement, and playing lead guitar for the Beatles record company. The revisionism now by maharaji and Elan Vital is lies, lies, Lies. We were spoonfed living lord, god in the flesh, guru is greater than god, the avatar-krishna-christ come again, bow down worship, pranam, surrender your life, your mind, your everything to HIM -- a person who was unbeknownst to most of us -- an imperfect dysfunctional piggish deluded teenager. Concepts? Yep, especially HIS HIS HIS: i.e. Krishna. Who spoonfed these concepts? Guru Maharaj ji himself. aka Maharaji in his Happy Hallowe'en Krishna Lord God in the Flesh costume -- over and over and over again. So, now we've got some dweebs posing as ex-premies or spammers here and providing a cute convenient pretext for multi-alias WT to propose banning free speech here. Hey, I've seen that same kind of provocateur bullshit before, folks. Nixon's henchmen tried that when I worked for Lennon, to discredit and deport him and undermine his humanitarian voice and the peace movement in general. Yeah, there ain't no ashrams in the West now anymore. But we bought into the whole trip --- and it was a total 'trip,' too. A rip-off trip that set m. up as the 'successful businessman' EV refers to on its site. We were a whole generation of naive peaceniks and folks looking for the fulfillment of the hippie Aquarian Age. Even as a kid, m. and his subordinates played on and took advantage of that innocence, and he used every selective biblical and scriptural reference possible to hype up his own alleged divinity and saviour status --- exhorting premies to give every ounce of their lives and their paychecks and possessions to him -- allegedly for propagation. Unfortunately, the more m. got seduced by power and Western materialism, the more he got corrupted. the premies became virtual slaves to feed his mega-luxuries addiction [and they still do]. The 4 watered-down yoga techs he shows had been passed along by monks and other ascetics, prior to the Rawat clan appropriating and claiming ownership of these public domain universal techniques. If you look closely at the extended Rawat family history, you will see how supposedly spiritual teachings got perverted into a familial power trip. How could this have happened? because many people had some kinds of experiences from doing these basic natural meditation techs. Did Buddha abuse his own initiation by a milk-maid to set himself up as a rich self-proclaimed 'great king'? heck, NO! In fact, He Renounced wealth and a kingdom for enlightenment. What about jesus? What about Kabir? What about every true and legit saint or spiritual teacher who ever walked the planet? Oh yeah, now tell me the EV bs line that this kn. shows it doesn't matter how much money one has. 'It would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.' -- Jesus How did the lowly peasant family of Rawats get filthy mega-rich? by usurping Sarupanand's legacy, and by using these 4 meditation techs mixed with superhuman claims regarding maharaji, his older brother, and his dad as the worldly vehicle to empower and enrich themselves on the backs of their own trusting devotees -- a patent and blatant gross abuse of power, abuse of spirituality, while defiling the very Name of God, in the process. Where did maharaji learn this hustle, this guru scam? His dad used to feed him with the concepts and rhetoric, and then bring him out as the come-on attraction boy curiosity for the illiterate superstitious Indian peasant crowds -- to stir up business. m. dressed up in krishna, cowboy, and pilot costumes, as a kid -- and he still does. Master? of what? Well, the very people who lived with him have reported he didn't practice what he preached (until recent years) -- meditation [er, the Knowledge techniques]. There are tons of premies who have done a lot more meditation than maha Ever did. Oh, r.e. the argument made by some here that this is Not about spirituality, huh? then, why follow him, why accept a self-proclaimed Master at all? No, w/o the faith placed by most in those same cult-fed spiritual concepts and the reinforcement of those bogus concepts, the whole trip would be obvious bullshit to anybody with a functioning brain. So, that's why there is still m's hinting, the allusions, the Kabir references, the instrumental arti still played, the ritual toe-kissing. even in your darkest hour.... And that's why m. has repeatedly demonized the brain, doubts, etc. It's one thing to doubt one's own innate energy and Creator, but it's only quite natural to eventually doubt a fallible human being posing as a feudal Godfather-Lord incarnate, a guru who has used every propaganda tool at his disposal to reinforce false concepts of his supposed lordship and superiority and mastery. either he IS god in the flesh -- or he's a lying sack of shit! 1. he admitted he does not hear our prayers; so, don't waste your prayers or breath on him. 2. he admitted he does not know what happens after death; so, don't place your very salvation and soul in his deluded and greedy clutches. 3. he and Elan Vital finally admitted that he is NOT a savior or god in the flesh; so, don't give him any devotion whatsoever. 4. But, he and EV admit that he is a 'successful businessman'. what business? milking premies like a blood-sucking leech! even the legit businesses he derives money from were built on the backs of premie slave labor and freebie shares given to him and his family. Everything material thing maharaji has in this world he OWES to the premies that he has routinely shit upon, mocked, condescended to, abused, and lorded over! So, Don't donate any more money to him or Elan Vital. Those contributions will only be misused, diverted, or wasted. You and your families can use that money yourselves, better spent. Why are some so-called former or ex-premies so outraged -- or crusaders here and now? WE WERE THE ORIGINAL PREMIES IN THE WESTERN WORLD. WE BOUGHT INTO EVERYTHING MAHARAJI SAID, WE DID HIS BIDDING, WE FOLLOWED HIS ORDERS, AND WE SAW, HEARD, AND WITNESSED WHAT WE CAN NOT EVER DENY HAPPENED -- for the Record! That's the truth behind this personality worship cult -- the truth aspirants are not told, the truth some premies still can not bear to face or accept. But, it's the truth, nevertheless. By using our brains [intelligence] again and now networking with hundreds of other informed involved persons, we have at long last learned to differentiate between absolute spoonfed miragey cult bullshit, revisionism, and the factual truth, as well as the truth of our own innate inner experiences -- which are distinct and separate from miragey. pwk, huh? Well, I AM a person with KNOWLEDGE. But, I got it the old-fashioned way; like others whom I know, I Earned it. You wanna ban or block somebody? block the bastard who has defiled the Name of God, and suckered and manipulated thousands of people into worshipping him, by using simple basic techniques of meditation to ascribe superhuman status to himself. The EV website is a bullshit lying revisionist public relations scam. You can block your ears and eyes and brain cells, but you can Never block out the truth from being stated and shared with others privately and publicly -- for all the world to know. Your breath and inner life have Nothing to do with Prem Rawat, unless you willingly subject yourself to his learned psychological massa-slave game. We are NOT slaves of a Massa, we don't need a Massa, we are created as equal human beings in the sight of our creator, with abilities to tap in ourselves on whatever that energy has to offer. You like watered-down truisms and plagiarized scriptures? Hey, this world already has scores of religions, sects, and tons of other deluded Indian guru-massas. Do NOT ever Ever confuse your inner spiritual life with miragey. It is coming from within you, not HIm. ARe you so stupid, so co-dependent, that you NEED him? That's like a learned disease, a false addiction! Premies -- we got 2 feet, a heart AND a brain. Let's use 'em. Wake up, premies! Drop the massa/servant shackles of materialist manipulative guru illusion -- now brought to you courtesy of Big Brother brainwashing mental imagery reinforcement techniques. Slavery is dead! That's right -- in the Name of the Almighty Creator, Preserver, and Destroyer of everything manifest in this universe, guru-massa mental slavery is hereby abolished! That's just for starters... Peace and lentils,

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:14:40 (EDT) From: Disculta Email: None To: suchabanana Subject: Yeah Such! Message:

Hereby noted and duly recorded in the Akashic Buckwheat records!

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 21:22:26 (EDT) From: Sir Dave Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com To: All Subject: The dynamics of an online forum Message:

Having read a few posts about the way this forum should be, I would like to pass the following comments: The only way to have a forum that was only full of threads you wanted to read would be to block all uninteresting posters or immediately delete any threads or posts which wavered from an acceptable tolerance. That would work for some people but only for a very short time. Also, nobody would agree on what was worth keeping or what was an acceptable tolerance. A forum is like a big room full of people. Some people are arguing, some are pontificating, some are cracking jokes and some are complaining. If you throw all the people who are arguing and complaining out of the room, immediately some of those who are left will start arguing and complaining just like the ones you threw out before. The more you try to control the place, the more you realise it's uncontrollable. So you either leave the room or watch the action and perhaps chat to a few people or join in an argument or even listen to someone pontificating. Drunks and people throwing up over the carpet can be thrown out periodically but they will be replaced by more drunks and vomitters after a while. And so it goes on, day after day, night after night. The never ending party...

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 23:58:43 (EDT) From: Barry Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: RrrRrraaaalllphhhhh! Message:

Man! oops! That was uninteresting. I'll be going now. Hey! can I come back if I go to Denny's for a while?

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 21:42:06 (EDT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: I won't argue , just off to chuck up :) [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 16:17:05 (EDT) From: swami j. suchabanana Email: None To: All Subject: god/savior claims:fact/fiction? Message:

What about Maharaji's and Elan Vital's present claims that he never said he was god or a savior? Exhibit A: [from the Elan Vital organization website, August 6, 2001] 'Did Maharaji ever say he was God? No, Maharaji never at any time claimed to be God. As an Indian national, when Maharaji first started teaching in the west when he was 13 years old, he used many examples from eastern traditions which demonstrated that a student seeking fulfillment could do so by choosing to follow the teachings of a guru or master. As he matured he realized that western traditions put a very different emphasis on the idea of guru and wrongly attributed messianic labels in this process. He changed his language to use the term master only and gradually removed all Indian associations from his teaching, as this is not a path just for Indians but is something that is available for anyone regardless of color, religion or race. It is acknowledged that many people at the time were already looking for a messianic type figure. That Maharaji was not such a figure disappointed some people.' 'He recollects: 'I remember coming to the West and talking to people. Some had the idea that once you attained this ‘high’ state of being, you would become super-human. You would be in a perpetual state of peace with no confusion in your life, ever. Even at my very young age, I understood that this was not the way it was supposed to be.'' Please evaluate the following official historical Maharaji quotations [aka Prem Rawat aka Guru Maharaj ji aka Lord of the Universe aka Balyogeshwar (born living god of the yogis)] and other authorized cult/church statements and records. Note the implications, claims, and any concepts found therein, and compare/contrast with any evidence of inconsistency or inaccuracy with the present official authorized portrayal and representations of Prem Rawat by EVI [Elan Vital] and those made by himself. Exhibit B: [from official Maharaji cult archives] 'Who is Guru Maharaj ji?' The 'authentic authorized story': 'Why do more than six million people around the world claim he is the greatest incarnation of God that ever trod the face of this planet? Why do Christian priests claim that he has taught them the way to love? Why do Hindus refer to him as the Swan Avatar?' -- DLM/EVI, Bantam Books, 1973 'God is the same, but now we look for Him to come in a new way, to give His Knowledge. Jesus gave this Knowledge, Krishna gave this Knowledge, but now we must look again for a new Master to show us the light. I have not come to establish a new religion or sect, but I have come to give you Knowledge...' --Maharaji ...'they expect God Himself to come, they pray for it, they ask for it, they announce about it, but when He comes they fail to recognize Him. And not recognizing Him is His physical form, they cannot recognize him within themselves.' -- Maharaji ...'whenever he comes to the physical world, the Perfect Master has to tolerate many difficulties.' - Maharaji 'We have to find this Word by a teacher, a guide. A guide who is perfect, and who can teach this perfect Knowledge to us. A perfect guide can guide us. You need a burning lamp to light other lamps. So, in the same way you need an enlightened Perfect Master to make you enlightened and perfect also. IF THE MASTER HIMSELF IS NOT PERFECT, HOW CAN HE MAKE YOU PERFECT? YOU NEED A PERFECT Master.' -Maharaji 'when Satguru comes... He is perfect, He was perfect, and He will be perfect... A devotee is sitting in America, Guru is sitting in India, but both have a very powerful connection...So, remember. We have to find that God, that person who is perfect... So, remember: we are part of Him who has manifested Himself as a Guru and who has come into this earth, and now we have to be One with Him. We have to completely merge and make our souls one with Him because He is perfect, and once we merge with Him we will also be perfect.' - aka Guru Maharaj ji [aka Maharaji], 15 years old, 1973 Shri Hans Productions. Peace and lentils, da lil' swami

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 18:20:08 (EDT) From: la-ex Email: None To: swami j. suchabanana Subject: You hippies want permanent LSD? Message:

Such- When m says that he met people in the west who thought they could always be in some 'high state', and he had to sadly inform them that life with the satguru didn't work that way, I wonder if he remembers saying: You hippies, you like LSD? Come to me, I have the permanent LSD! (Montrose, Col, 1971) You can reach that infinite state. You go up,up,up...infinitely up...you never come down... (1972-73 era) Not to mention the countless times he yelled at premiew because they weren't always 'in that place', where the perfect master was... Now we know a bit more about 'that place' where he always was: it might include greed, lust, drunkenness, anger,confusion etc....

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 17:34:06 (EDT) From: Timmi Email: None To: swami j. suchabanana Subject: Re: god/savior claims:fact/fiction? Message:

I think I am going to be sick. Did anyone catch the 'master' crap on yesterday's broadcast? He really piled it on at Thousand Oaks. I still think that barf bags with rawat's picture on them would find a fairly decent market..........

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:52:15 (EDT) From: Bobo Email: None To: Timmi Subject: Re: god/savior claims:fact/fiction? Message:

Timmi here is your opportunity! While your premiehusband is wasting his time and your money on these videos you set up the bussiness of holy barfbag factory. Dont you sometimes feel like ripping the dish off the roof?

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:20:25 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: All Subject: Can Anyone Track Down this Case? Message:

Doing a search on Google for 'Prem Pal Singh Rawat' I came accross a court case in India, that I think quotes the case in which Mataji/Satpal fought with Prem Pal over DLM in India. Here is the case cite, but I don't know how to find it. I'm sure it is online somewhere. C.L. Tandon v. Prem Pal Singh Rawat AIR 1978 Delhi 221 The following is quoted in the case I found about the case (cited as from p. 226): ....Because the removal of Prem Pal Singh Rawat by Mataji and the nomination in his place of Satya Pal Singh Rawat and the competence of Mataji to do the same, issues of utmost importance, are alien to the Patna suit, the disposal of the suit at Patna will not stand in the way of the trial of the said issues by the appropriate courts. So, it looks like this Delhi case, and perhaps a case in Patna, in 1978, were the cases in which the fight over DLM in India were duked out. Does anyone know any more about this? Can anyone get a copy of the case? Once again, the cite: C.L. Tandon v. Prem Pal Singh Rawat, AIR 1978 Delhi 221

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 06:07:32 (EDT) From: Salam Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Can Anyone Track Down this Case? Message:

it looks to me that those people know something. Am not into law, but someone could try the decision section which appears to be locked. Need to subscribe http://www.companylawinfo.com/ Also try this http://www.vakilno1.com/

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 06:16:20 (EDT) From: Salam Email: None To: Salam Subject: Re: Can Anyone Track Down this Case? Message:

This is all I could find In the matter of C. L. Tandon v. Prem Pal Singh Rawat, AIR 1978 Delhi 221, the same test that the decision in the earlier suit must operate as res judicata to attract the rigours of section 10 was reiterated in the following words (page 226) : 'One valuable touchstone for determining whether the matters in issue are directly and substantially the same is whether the decision in the prior suit will bring the principle of res judicata into operation in the subsequent suit. Because the removal of Prem Pal Singh Rawat by Mataji and the nomination in his place of Satya Pal Singh Rawat and the competence of Mataji to do the same, issues of utmost importance, are alien to the Patna suit, the disposal of the suit at Patna will not stand in the way of the trial of the said issues by the appropriate courts.'

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 15:50:22 (EDT) From: janet Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Can Anyone Track Down this Case? Message:

i suggest karen ringrose/kelly be the one to research this , using her contacts in India.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:25:30 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Joe Subject: Fantastic! Message:

Joe, Can't you Lexus it at work or something?

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 15:51:35 (EDT) From: Francesca :C) Email: None To: Jim Subject: Lexis and West's Message:

... usually don't have international cases, at least not on the accounts I've had access to! If someone who is reading this works for an international practice, perhaps they'd have access or have some clues as to where to find this kind of stuff online, or anywhere else for that matter. Joe, have any friends at some fancy law firms in Bhagdad by the Bay? --f

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:56:42 (EDT) From: such Email: None To: Jim Subject: The case deserves an EPO spot! Message:

yeah, it's about time someone got hold of that case -- for everyone to check out on-line. I read back then in the media where the judge scolded both Prem and Satpal during the trial. [can't remember which magazine, however]. Inquiring minds wanna know! hahahoho

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:10:04 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: such Subject: Yes, but needs be more documented Message:

and someone to write the article .....

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 12:03:42 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: All Subject: No defamation trial in France Message:

What about all those legal threats from EV after the Combat review publication ???? EV had a 3 month time to sue. We're now way over the deadline, and nothing happened. Does this mean that all accusations are true ? They've paid about $70,000 for a page in Le Monde to counter the magazine and papers' accusations. I have no idea how much they've paid their lawyers for advice. Can't they pay lawyers to defend them in court ? I can't believe it !!!!!

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 12:44:29 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: and furthermore Message:

They've had a unique occasion to counter those accusations in court. They didn't move. What will be their credibility in the future ?

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:37:56 (EDT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Do EV contributors know this? Message:

And now we come to an interesting point for EV to consider... Is this information readily available to the average rank and file member of EV? (oops, I forgot, there is no membership...ok, their non-member contributors...) Do EV contributors know that $70,000 of their hard earned contributions just went to an add in a French magazine to combat allegations (that all seem to be true) against maharaji? If I was an EV contributor, I would want to know.... 1-Why did my money go to an add that virtually NO ONE in the entire world gives a shit about.....and it's certainly not for propagation... 2-Why did EV have to defend itself? What were the allegations that EV had to respond to? 3-The most common sense question of them all, which is virtually assured to NEVER get asked: 'Is this stuff TRUE?' 4-And shouldn't we, the people supporting all this stuff, know what the hell is going on? Shouldn't m just talk to us and level with us? It's doubtful that m will ever speak about this stuff directly. If it gets worse, he will blame the EV staff, just like he used to blame the premies, or instructors when things didn't go the way he wanted them to. He's already planted the seeds of doubt about EV, in case he needs to jettison them at some point and move on to another 'phase'..... 'Oh what a tangled web we weave, when our intent, is to deceive...'

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 16:26:20 (EDT) From: Joey Email: None To: la-ex Subject: importance of English translation of Combat Message:

...Is this information readily available to the average rank and file member of EV?... The answer to that question is NO. Not only is it not readily availble to premies, it's not available to anyone unless you can handle French. The 'Combat' piece to my knowlege is only online in French and therefore non accessible to those who have no competence in that language. It really requires a professional quality translation for this article to be made available in the English language, so it can serve as a model or example in the English speaking world and elsew here of how the issue of m and his cult can be dealt with by the press and other media. I have the actual magazine here in front of me, and having some knowledge of the language of Voltaire, Moliere and whoever, I can tell you--it's a powerful piece! Should be made available to EVERYONE, and I think any ex contemplating going to the media (even here in North America) would want to present it to whomever they're dealing with. Does anyone have any news on what's happening with an English translation? JM??

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:44:45 (EDT) From: such Email: None To: la-ex Subject: wondering the same Message:

who [except a blue-blooded fool or sucker] is gonna fork out any more hard-earned bucks for 'participation' or propagation, when money is actually going toward ads and attorneys to stonewall the facts?

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:50:51 (EDT) From: Ulf Email: None To: la-ex Subject: he is a fox Message:

La ex wrote : He`s already planted the seeds of doubt about EV, in case he needs to jettison them at some point and move on to another `phase` And i think that it is the very thing he is going to do I think he just like a fox , allways have 2 or 3 ways out.... ULf

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:02:18 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Going to Court? Are you nuts? Message:

Going to court and having to answer questions under some kind of oath with penalties for lying, would be the last thing either Maharaji or Elan Vital would ever do. It would bring all kinds of things out in the open that we probably don't even know about. There are millions of bodies buried in the Maharaji cult, and the more they get uncovered, the worse it gets. The thing is, like you imply, that the allegations in the French publications are largely true. Sure, maybe there are a few innaccuracies, but the general thrust is correct, and a court case would just confirm that, plus reveal a lot more. The advert in the newspaper, the 'It Ain't So' website and Charles Glasser's website, also don't answer any of the allegations, they just 'say' they are false with no proof. On the other side, we have the actual testimony of people who were there that the allegations about Maharaji, his drinking, drug taking, sexual exploitation of his followers, etc., are in fact, true. A court case would just confirm all that, and that's the last thing Maharaji wants. He just hopes to kind of counter the allegations with some vague references to their falsity, but providing no proof. This is a common tactic of the tobacco industry, for example. They just disputed the facts about whether cigarettes were really harmful, countering the overwhelming evidence with vague questions. The fossil fuel industries are doing the same thing now with global warming. I'm sure Maharaji's very expensive PR firm has suggested this as the best strategy.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:00:31 (EDT) From: donner Email: None To: Joe Subject: exactly joe, NT Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:21:15 (EDT) From: Francesca ~) Email: None To: Joe Subject: Spin control Message:

Right on, Joe. Just like in politics. Spin control. They can pay for an ad in LeMonde, and people can put up websites, because it's all just talk. The only cash on the barrelhead goes to media outlets, pr consultants, and lawyers. All EV can do is talk, talk, talk, because they wouldn't dare try to be put under the scrutiny of a court proceeding. I guess they're finding out that talk isn't cheap, either. LOLS Thanks for the report and the analysis, you two. bests, Francesca

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 08:29:11 (EDT) From: EBay Alert Email: None To: All Subject: 74 Penthouse w/Pie throwing article Message:

The 74 Penthouse is available at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1452814415 This magazine contains the article re:the famous pie-throwing incident. It can also be found on EPO, but you should have your own copy-a cult classic. Maybe Pat Haley could sing a copy for you and then get M to put his X on it also. Would demand big bucks from X-premie-premie populace, me thinks. [ Page Link ]

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 00:03:11 (EDT) From: Barry Email: None To: EBay Alert Subject: Comic? Message:

i would really like to see that comic of M running a Macdonalds type resaurant..etc..the guy comes in and gets a hammer in the head etc.. Jim showed it to me once a while back. Id like to see it again. anyone know where it is? The net address, or whatever? Thanks

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 21:57:21 (EDT) From: Joey Email: None To: EBay Alert Subject: Does anyone know.....?... Message:

...if Mataji was the centrefold that month?!? :)

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 07:59:37 (EDT) From: Dave Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com To: All Subject: It could be worse Message:

Perhaps not. [ Propagation in Afghanistan ]

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:08:55 (EDT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Dave Subject: Disgusting Message:

Do THE country rulers realize we are living in the 2000's AND THE WORLD IS WATCHING? What in the fuck is that? But: They say it plain out what will happen if you violate their laws so then, you do have a choice. Maharaji snatches people's souls with lies. My point? MAHARAJI IS WORSE! 'little god maharaji' SUCKS!

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 09:46:35 (EDT) From: Liz Email: None To: Dave Subject: Re: It could be worse Message:

Hmmmm, if you want to take this a stage further ... check out www.rawa.org ... the women in Afghanistan are really suffering under the Taliban regime.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 12:04:25 (EDT) From: Dave Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com To: Liz Subject: Re: It could be worse Message:

I don't think it's just women who are suffering there. It's a bit like a Muslim Nazi Germany. It's now on the AG links page. [ Anything Goes Links ]

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 01:02:27 (EDT) From: Francesca Email: None To: All Subject: Bazza's link Message:

Never fear -- it does not appear that the EPO site was hacked in any way. It appears that the link was to Bazza's server and he merely changed the link when he no longer wished to be of service. How do I know this?? I ran a whois search on the IP address for the link JHB gave us and got the following information (in part -- I didn't list it all): Dynatek Infoworld, Inc. (NETBLK-DYNATEK-BL1) 13200 Crossroads Parkway North Suite 360 City of Industry, CA 91746 US Next here is part of the information I got for a whois search for the host of Bazza's videobrit.com site: Technical Contact: Hostmaster (HOS884-ORG) hostmaster@SITEHOSTING.NET SiteHosting.net 13200 Crossroads Parkway, Suite 360 City of Industry, CA 91746 US So don't worry folks, Bazza probably just didn't want to facilitate a link to those video clips since he's gone back to the fold. Hello Baz, if you're reading this. I'm relieved to know this, not only for the security of the site, but I really do like Bazza, at least during our short cyber relationship, such as it is. bests, Francesca [ Bazza's link ]

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 00:08:22 (EDT) From: la-ex Email: None To: All Subject: Dissension at the'Foundation'? Message:

I was told recently by a number of premies who are quite active in the cult, and give money regularly, that there has been a LOT of grumbling lately in the premie world. Specifically, they said that the Foundation videos were terrible, and in their opinion, a huge waste of time and money. They thought the family members were ridiculous, and contrived. They said that 'M ought to keep the day job'....this slick new format was really offensive to them, and they are VERY tired of it... They said that in Portland, about 50 people walked out in the middle of the videos.... Same thing in Miami, with lots of grumbling about how strange it all is...they ventured that m is having his midlife crisis, and is drifting... They thought this new mode of 'm as everything, from producer to musician to artist to whatever' was silly and stupid looking, especially to outsiders. Also, the new workshops on how to talk to people with knowledge, along with 'knowledge kits' were seen as absurd.... They are wondering how long and where this will go.... They are also seriously considering withdrawing some of their time, money and involvement, because it all seems so absurd to them....after 20-30 years doing it, they have to listen to someone tell them how to come from their heart, and talk to their friends or family about m.... There is serious dissension in many of the more independent minded premies, according to them....and these guys don't even believe the EPO stuff...they're trying to hang tight with the guru, but they said it's getting tougher all the time... Seems the only inspired ones are the 'church ladies', but even many of them are cooling down now that they see that they chance for personal time with the guru may not be what they thought it would be....many of the 'CL''s have made serious fools of themselves and alienated many of their fellow community members in the process... Could their be trouble in paradise? Anyone else heard similar things?

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 12:54:47 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Recurring Story Message:

These premies might be more willing to say these things to you now that you are an 'outsider' and it's unlikely that they will be seen as doubting Thomases within the cult. BTW, what is a 'Foundation Video?' This is a recurring story in Elan Vital even when it was called Divine Light Mission. Many premies complained about the organization, the bad advice Maharaji was getting, the power trips the people in the organization were on, etc. I did the same thing. After my stint as a middle-bureaucrat in Elan Vital, I saw that the organization was moribund, mismanaged, incredibly wasteful. So, I hated the organization, but refused to see Maharaji was behind it. But that was a crack in the wall anyway. I had seen at DECA, that Maharaji was involved in the most minute details, and was, in fact, due to his megalomania, and his lack of anything approaching organizational or leadership skill, the cause of many of the problems. He was kind of like an agent of the dialectic. As soon as something would get somewhat organized, through the incredible effort of many average premies, he would fuck it all up by undermining the leadership (behind their backs) and make all kinds of other demands. He also seemed to have a problem with short term memory. It was almost like he forgot what the whole thing was about anyway. But it may be harder for M to hide behind the organization, given how he has put himself front and center these days. In the old days, you could blame Jim Hession, or the mahatmas, or the leadership of DLM, or your community coordinator, etc. But now, they are these kind of anonymous figures in the background. I'm sure there is a thriving power stucture in putting on 'events' and lots of power trips there, but the rest of the time, it's all Maharaji. It is nice to see that premies might be critical of the absurd, and completely out of touch way Maharaji does things. He is SO out of touch with ordinary people, and the way they live, that I'm not the least surprised that his videos, DVDs, and propagation materials would seem ridiculous, and apparently they do, except to the most mindless of the cult members. But it would be just like Maharaji to carry on the current program for a while, and then abandon it, slowly, without comment, and then present the latest, new, revolutionary, technologically advanced, and very expensive, program that is FINALLY going to spread knowledge to the world. This has happened countless times with Maharaji. When his plan fails, he just presents a new one, acting the earlier one never really happened.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:11:35 (EDT) From: Steve M Email: None To: Joe Subject: Doing full time service Message:

In my time as a minor player around the 'residence' and at OGM (office of Guru Maharaji ), I never once heard that Maharaji was happy or appreciative of anything that was done for him. It was always ' Maharaji isn't happy about this ' ' Maharaji wants a better this ',..... ' Maharaji wants a throne with built in speakers , air bags, back massager .....' Mahraji needs a new plane ' . Whenever I saw him offstage he looked pissed off about something and glanced at those of us who were serving him around the place as if we were merely annoyances. A premie on the LG forum said that it doesn't matter to them what maha is like off stage. That as long as he puts on a good show it's fine. This premie compared it to going to a good concert. You don't worry about what the performer does back stage in private... This DVD nollij system is so weird isn't it ? I always thought it was touted as being heart to heart - person to person. Why people who have been meditating on the techniques for many years daily can't show other people , I don't know. I was shown them by an elderley Indian lady who denounced maharaji as a fraud a few years later and they worked fine. It was told to us that it wasn't just techniques but the transference of the masters grace. A sort of magical zap from God through the initiators body , by his grace of course. How does he instil that magic zap into the DVD recording? I do sometimes sit still and have the same meditational experience I always had . I don't knock it. But this cult thing with the guru just looks more and more bizarre. Steve M

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:11:49 (EDT) From: donner Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Recurring Story Message:

joe, you are so right again! it has always amazed me how folks were/are so willing to blame the 'people around m' and never m for shape things are in. of course m has always called the shots, both large and small and was always the one to put the people in and out of spots he wanted for them, for himself; depending upon his agenda at the moment. and his agenda varies from time to time...sometimes more personal and sometimes related to his image. so, he might encourage a tim gallway to get close or a monica lewis or whoever depending upon the mood of the day, week, month. of course, the external presentation of the reason for anything was/is to promote the spreading of k...so, the plane, the videos, the land projects are always couched in that context. a big person game to m. and intestingly, those closest to him know that and are fine with that because its all about m anyways...m gettinga and doing what he wants because afterall, to them he is the lord and the world is his play (ground). so, of course you are correct in noticing and pointing out that its all the same reassuring theme; different faces, different language slightly but all the same MO.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 15:27:09 (EDT) From: Janet Email: None To: donner Subject: Re: Recurring Story Message:

You know, Michael, for some reason your post set me to wondering... All you guys who hate new age bs and have decided to tune it out, humor me, here, for a minute, while i wander through this conjecture: They say that life doesn't start at conception or birth, that the soul is deathless and endures through lifetimes, starting as a spark of consciousness, and voluntarily seeking experience of each level of creation, from the pure formless energy, all the way down through each dimension of light, sound, spirit, mentality, emotion, imagination and matter, wanting to experience and know what it is to be every part of existence, in each 'lifetime' collecting understanding, and knowledge and identification with that part of creation. The native americans speak of the mineral world with respect for the soul in things we think of as inanimate: to us rocks are rocks. to them, they are 'the stone people'. to us, crystals are just mineral compounds. to some, each one is a living thing that can absorb and carry out desired services. those who apear to know of these things say that by the time we have reached the stage of desiring to experience human material embodiment, we have already successfully learned all we could at those earlier levels, and that human life presents the greatest scope of opportunity to learn and experience, of all possible forms of life to live. They report that rare souls need only one such lifetime to absorb all they need to for their completion, but the usual soul comes back many times in order to learn from many different approaches. According to these teachers, there is no judgement but the soul's own, that is placed over these lives, these actions, these desires. And in there being no judgement but the soul's own, the entire breadth of human and 'inhuman' behavior is allowed to act out and experience and discover what it brings. According to this explanation, all manner of 'evil' and perversity is therefore freely permitted, for only in such complete freedom can wisdom be gained. This is the crux of the ancient debate between ree will and determinism. The argument goes that anything less than free will renders the experience null, for by definition, a controlled realm would keep some things off limits and a true understanding could never be attained. These same reports from those who have probed the field, say that the determinism occurs when the soul completes a lifetime and sheds it, and in the reviewing of it, reaches its own decisions as to what it learned, saw, felt, understood, approved of and didn't, in itself. All of these self measures go into the soul's next desire for what it would like to 'be' and do in its next chapter. It is the individual soul that maps out and projects how it wants to live its next incarnation, its next lifetime, and THAT is where the predetermination takes place. Lest everyone think that a soul would always want an easy, cushy life, it is not so: There are stories told of celestial history on other worlds, supposedly in the constellation of Orion, where the several planets of the stars in that region achieved a state of civilization so refined, that after eons, all needs on all worlds were met by computer, and left absolutely nothing, wanting for anybody. The story goes that this state endured for several thousand years, until, upon six of the planets, a band of rebels came into being who grew so bored, so jaded, so unchallenged by all the perfectly provided computer ministrations, that they rose up and deliberately set about to sabotage the system, in order to create interest, imbalance, unpredictability, challenge, mystery, hardship, tests, uncertainty, and ultimately, war. They craved stimulation and adversity. Anyway, back to my maunderings: If the soul is permitted complete liberty in conceiving of what kind of life they want to have, in projecting what kinds of advantages, disadvantages, challenges, environments they will have and so on, without judgement, then we are led to the conclusion that this 'soul being' that we all are familiar with as 'maharaji,' this time around, must have had an appetite for doing what he's doing with his life as we have wtnessed him doing. So my question about it all, is, what kind of entity is this? What did he want before he came in? How close to his pictured life is he getting? If he's always frustrated with what he claims is the clumsiness of his 'help', is it because heally does havesome vast vision, but can't seem to get it across to anyone else successfully? Or is he still stuck in an earlier stage, like a child with a short attention span and no awareness of his impact on the world around him when he acts--? Babs would recognize this from the old star trek episode with 'Trevillian,' the child brat of omniscient powers that torments Kirk and Co with cruel games like some superbeing, until his parents come to call him home at the end of the episode. I often sit and speculate and contemplate on Maharaji, in this same vein. What kind of soul would map out a life for themselves like this? Obviously, it has been permitted to this point. Are we just minor static that is irrelevant to his getting his wish? Or are we a significant chapter in the experience of this soul, who will be taught a serious and unforgettable lesson, by living like this, and ultimately meeting our reponse to his behaviors? The Krishna temple's scriptures say that false gurus will be set upon by their followers in the afterlife, and will be sentenced to come back to the world incarnated as snakes, who will then be eaten alive by their followers in the form of fire ants. And in answer to the question'how do we know?', the only response i have arrived at so far is that 'we only have what we have' on the subject. We have this and not something else. So in absence of any other, this is the only report we have for reference. There are infinite possibilities, but this is the one that has played out in reality so far. So we take it. We have nothing else. This is what has made it into our plane of existence and been made know to date. So we take it until something else modifies it with new evidence, data, understanding or instruction. The unfinished is imperfect, but has room for us. The perfect is finished, lacking nothing, and thus leaves no room for us to do more, find more, learn more, go further. Like the 'unholy 6' of Orion, I prefer the stimulation of the imperfect and unfinished, over the perfect, finished and boring. But I still ask myself, what kind of soul maharaji would have to be, to want to come into the world and live the way he does? And what a strange symbiosis there would have to be, for us to become his followers, in turn... What experience does the soul take, from all this? How would it digest and reduce, to go on with the entity as part of its overall understanding of creation?

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 00:46:24 (EDT) From: donner Email: None To: Janet Subject: Re: Recurring Story Message:

hi janet, wow. what a mouth full...i find most of this very close to ideas i have/had and find intreging. (except the orion part, and perfect cannot include bored or boring in my definition). i have wondered what soul force imagined a life of guru also...but given i have been a devotee of a guru and they are just different sides of the same coin...i imagine (and have experienced in my life before and after m andk) that i have guru tendencies in me for sure. i judge them in myself as unhealthy at least unhealthy for this story/life that i aam writing this time... caroline myss has said (for what its worth) that there are archytyple energies/people that meet certain time frames for certain larger purposes...hitler, stalin era, many gurus in the 60's/70's...the blood and eye for eye (abraham), forgiveness and water (jesus) etc. and we are all working thru archytypal (wish is could spell or cared enough) energies until we have it all down and can create completely and consciously and collectively. or, robert monroe talkd about the collective soul pods of 100,000 or so getting it all straight and perfect on this plane and then disappearing into some other time/space to continue as stronger (smarter, etc) energy/entity. ultimately, i retreat from this thought/process and away from trying to figure the story line of another (wife, guru, friends etc) and focus on my story/life; looking more honestly at what makes me tick, digging deeper into what i really feel in my body and emotions at any given time...looking at my actions and the reactions i get to learn about myself...pay more attention to what feels right and good within me when i act and react. what about intimacy scares me really, how am i like my father/mother etc. and the new physics...how each grain contains the whole reality...and within me is all the good and bad every played out; past and future included...imagine that. my partner/wife and i do this exercise sometimes when either of us feels judged by the other...one says, i am like this, or i feel this or i sometimes have these thoughts, and the other say...i am like that when i do this...i have had that thought when i was...i felt like that when... etc. etc. amazing how much we share in common and how what we judge in the other as not good or likeable is in me. anyway...more later...you dedication to understanding the process of guru/devotee is inspiring, thanks janet.

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:23:04 (EDT) From: Disculta Email: None To: donner Subject: Yo Donner, re Monroe etc. Message:

I'm with you man. You took many of the words right out of my keyboard, (which unlike yours, has caps). I had a really good conversation with Monroe once, a year or two before he died, and I asked him what he was up to these days. He said that every time he went 'out of body' he was being taken on these hairy cosmic 'rides' through indescribable experiences. He said that as an analogy, they were like intergalactic roller coasters, but that this was just an analogy. Each time he would be scared, then get the hang of it, and feel confident, and like he could ride the roller coaster. Then the next time, it would be a new roller coaster, and he'd have to go through the whole process of releasing his fear again. Then eventually he decided to just let go of his fear at the beginning of the journey, even though he was plunging into some new realm or other. He said he figured it was a good enough metaphor for life. It really stuck with me. love Katie Darling

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:27:30 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: donner Subject: Talk about cluttering up the page! Message:

Just kidding, Mike. It's your little playground too. So I care about whether or not Bazza was Rob and you care about collective soul pods. Time for bed.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 17:49:42 (EDT) From: Bobo Email: None To: Janet Subject: Re: snakes and ants Message:

The only thing I want to comment on: In this vieuw the guru is still 'higher' evolved than the followers. Does still seem to contain a lot of slave mentality! Or is the karma for premies being so stupid of following rawat even worse than his karma for being a false bogus??

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 00:50:43 (EDT) From: donner Email: None To: Bobo Subject: Re: snakes and ants Message:

or, is it karmicly 'worse' to be a guru then to be a devotee...one wants/seems to have/get more power and the other less powerhungry (or denying ourselves our real power)...both are tragic in some ways and probably just part of the human process over time. or so some might say. as also...given that time is speeding up, its not in the next lifetimes or after death place that the devotee of the false guru eats him...its in this lifetime, now imeediately. maybe??

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 03:01:55 (EDT) From: Disculta Email: None To: donner Subject: Gobble, gobble! nt Message:

apoig

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:17:35 (EDT) From: Richard Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Recurring Story Message:

A big yes, Joe, to your entire post. I was around for a lot of the 'lilas' (screwups supposedly created by M to blow our minds). He has always taken credit for any success and assigned blame for any failure. One additional point I would like to make - a prediction really. Time is coming soon when Élan Vital will no longer exist because in his estimation it fucked up M's plans to spread K to the whole world. The loyal warriors will then fall on their swords and wonder why they screwed up so badly and what they can do to make amends. Then some other entity (Wahadamar, Visions or the like) will replace EV as his organization of choice and the cycle continues. I would bet $$ that this will happen within a year.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 10:53:15 (EDT) From: McGruff Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Re: Dissension **TOTAL BS** Message:

I was at Portland, Nobody wlaked out during any part of the videos, let alone 50 people. Stick to your old playbook and at least keep your lies uncheckable, huh? It was very well attendended, as was Amaroo, as was the surprise Thousand Oaks program. You've got to do better than this....

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:47:25 (EDT) From: la-ex Email: None To: McGruff Subject: Don't get gruff, mcgruff.... Message:

fact is, Mcgruff, that my friend, who gives $5-10,000/yr. is being constantly hounded and schmoozed by mid level pams this year... He WANTS to see m succeed, he really does... And HE was the one who reported to me that 50 people walked out of Portland during the videos. He was sitting close to the back of the hall, and watched it happen. He went outside early(as he too couldn't take it anymore, esp. with the 'new holy family' giving discourses), and talked with many of them about it. Same in Miami. He said that he is cutting WAY back on donations until this silliness subsides and ev starts to listen to the average premie on the street. Now, Mcgruff, can you tell me exactly HOW you would know that no one walked out of the video portion of the program in Portland and Miami? Were you at the back of the hall each time, observing? Is it possible that you were focused on the lords (sorry, speaker's) form in the video and were oblivious to the other peoples comings and goings during it?

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:00:07 (EDT) From: Little Mo Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Re: Don't get gruff, mcgruff.... Message:

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:06:06 (EDT) From: Forum God +) Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com To: Little Mo Subject: Nice script Message:

but they don't work in posts. Only your common or garden HTML works in the posts.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:33:51 (EDT) From: Little Mo Email: None To: Forum God +) Subject: Re: Nice script Message:

Sure nuff!! Worked in the preview, though. Back to the drawing board. Shouldn't you be down at the beach? LM

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:00:47 (EDT) From: Ian Dury Email: None To: McGruff Subject: The rats ARE leaving the ship! Message:

Ask Yorum Weiss about the money-flow, know-it-all!

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 08:14:57 (EDT) From: Ian Dury Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Re: Dissension at the'Foundation'? Message:

Yes indeed, this is really amazing. One of the most active, dedicated premies that I have ever known has recently walked away, totally disgusted. This premie quit their senior post in EV, stopped attending events and cut off the cash flow to EV, due to not wanting to be involved in any way, shape or form with a CULT.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:18:31 (EDT) From: donner Email: mdonner@netidea.com To: Ian Dury Subject: Re: Dissension at the'Foundation'? Message:

Ian, could you encourage you friend to post some re recent organizational stuff, how things work, cash flow etc...or him/her contact me at the email here for some off line confidential conversation...i would be very interested to compare notes from my time and his/her's...betting that it was not all that different.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 05:09:29 (EDT) From: annie Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Re: Dissension at the'Foundation'? Message:

just been mentioning this elsewhere briefly, it is as bad as that, i thought it may kick-off some huge ripples, very good, there is major hope for many more of those still suckered!! (i was at an event in june, saw these vids and was spinning, they brought me here, amen!!! very releived....anny macfanny!!!

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 04:02:27 (EDT) From: JHB Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Re: Dissension at the'Foundation'? Message:

This matches Wolfies account of dissent after the Mainz (?) programme in Germany. Just one step from doubting his infallability, to doubting his ownership of 'knowledge'. Then he becomes just some Indian guy that got rich on selling meditation. John

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 06:17:56 (EDT) From: wolfie Email: None To: JHB Subject: Re: Dissension at the'Foundation'? Message:

Hi everybody, yeah, can watch this sort of dissent, but people (premies) are still defending MJ. They only blame the hidden people of EV, nobody seem to know them, for example what are the names of the people who form the european group? This european group recently named the new german national coordinator after this gremium had fired the last german coordinator because she may had to liberal ideas. This last german coordinator had told me, after a discussion with her about the dubious character of MJ, that MJ told them in a workshop, where he instructed the coordinators, that he told the new ones that he (MJ) is sorrounded by the wrong people for helping him to do a good job ( whatever this means anyway). This statement of him has a strange effect on peoples attitude, because they think now they have to try more harder to help MJ because the poor perfect Master is sorrounded by stupid people and now we have to proof that we are the better ones that can to the propagationjob better. So it seems clear that this stupid people that sourround MJ now are responsible for this phoney, commercial videos and the circle of stupidity goes on. What I can see is, that the beahvior of the premies tell a lot about the behavior of MJ or the otherway round. MJ can not handle the confusion amongst premies and premies can not handle the dubious charakter of MJ. According to my expierience for example, it was very easy to say wise and nice things in satsang, but afterwards again act like an ordinary confused humanbeing. For me MJ fits the same picture. But a lot of premies don't want to see through. It's easier to blame a anonym organisation than to really check out our own illusions. Why sweet premies it could not be the chance, that the story of the perfect master, is the stoty of perfect selfbetray. I can tell that deep in my mysterious being I always hold on to the concept that I've found the greatest living master and this was good food at least for my ego. But I don't want stuck with my ego and so I'm ready to question everything including the concept of the perfect master. Life is too short sitting in a well pretenting that it is the ocean. What we can loose? Are we really so fulfilled or is it only something we wish to be or are we really so scared not to go to heaven when we question MJ. ciao .....wolfie

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 18:10:55 (EDT) From: dv Email: None To: wolfie Subject: Nice quote, Wolf!: ' Life is too short, Message:

sitting in a well pretending that it is the ocean.'

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:25:36 (EDT) From: donner Email: None To: wolfie Subject: Re: Dissension at the'Foundation'? Message:

one telling aspect of the cult is the line of people ready and willing to fill in for those recently leaving or replaced. the line has always been long for those waiting for their chance to be close to the master and serve him more fully. but what is the nature of these folks, what is their character and abilities? what happens to one's spirit while waiting one's chance to serve more closely as time goes on and on? certainly the general climite within western culture is changing and fewer and few people are ready to give their power away...willing to postpone their kick at the can of prosperity.

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 11:26:04 (EDT) From: wolfie Email: None To: donner Subject: Re: Dissension at the'Foundation'? Message:

Hi, what does it mean, that certainly the climate within western culture is changing and fewer and few people are ready to give their power away ...willing to postpone their kick at the can of prosperity. Do you mean there will be more people to help MJ. I think the mental condition to go on a trip like this is more increasing when I look on this new age scene. Cause people are fed up by this materialistic world and of course, looking for somekind of soulfull stuff they are suprisingly willing to believe the strangest things and go for it. We once have done it, but things haven't got better in that way. Sometimes I look around in the bookstores and it's amazing what kind of esoteric books get bought. There are a lot of little Guru's who call themselfs enlightend and people intend to believe them. It's crazy. So far MJ is a big one and if he would change his way of propagating he sure will find new follwers. The style would be different but in this world today you can sell every believesystem. At the same time people going away, new ones will come and offer their blinded help. We once did and from our prepective today it seems totally crazy, that we accepted this concept of the prefect Master, the Lord of the universe but it went along with our mentalcondition and on went the show. I'm not pesemistic, but maybe all of this are things we get confronted with in our age and humanbeings have to learn to deal with it, like so many other things, that are somehow new to humanbeings in modern societies. Sorry.....sometimes I like to be a philosopher....ciao ...wolfie

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 01:17:23 (EDT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: la-ex Subject: shoulda listened to Mr. 'Natural', way back when Message:

our poor premie bruddas and sistas intuitively know that if it ain't even natural, it's total bs. finally, that's what it comes down to, even for the church ladies.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 20:58:24 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: All Subject: Why I'm even MORE certain now that Bazza's 'Rob' Message:

Okay, first, I have to address the obvious question, the one Dog raised yesterday, which is why would it matter anyway if this one former forum participant was really, in fact, an earlier former forum participant. Like who gives a shit anyway? But actually there are a couple of reasons to pursue this further. One is that, until Bazza, we could all say, for what it's worth, that we didn't know of a single, intelligent and well-informed ex who'd ever gone back. Maharaji looks so god-damned absurd in broad daylight, i.e. with full knowledge of the previously suppressed or whitewashed facts and history, that no reasonable person could ever trust him with anything again, let alone their psyche. Bazza, however, seemed to put the lie to that. He was indeed a smart, sharp fellow. He relished in all the dirt, such as it is, on the former Lord of the Universe. Yet Bazza went back. So much for that argument. The other reason is that Bazza, as FA, did indeed have access to everything here. All the ISP's, all the background conversations, everything. Thankfully, the ex 'campaign', if you want to call it that (got to call it something), is decidedly above board. Nonetheless, I think it behooves us well to know who or what we're dealing with. Anyway, I'm now more certain than ever that Bazza was Rob. Here's why. Remember I said that I asked him if that were true and reminded him that, now that I thought of it, that one message I'd gotten from Rob did, in my memory, remind me of him. They were both fairly high, soft or casual english accents. I don't know, hard to explain but there was enough there to make me wonder. So here's what happened today. I figured that I just had to hear Bazza's voice again to see, one last time, if I could jar my memory with the comparison. So I called his cell. Now normally, before his 'change of heart', Bazza was always accessible on his cell. Since, he wasn't. However, the reason I called was because I at least expected to hear his voice mail. Any of you who ever spoke with him will recall. Bazza has this whole thing on his voice mail where he explains that if he's not there to answer it's likely because he's working at a shoot or something. He then asks you to check his website, www.videobrit.com, where he has a section called 'availability' where you can see right there and then if he should be reachable or not. You could also leave a message. So guess what? I called Bazza's cell but this time, no Bazza. Instead a phone company automated voice just saying he wasn't there. (Sorry, now that I think of it, I wasn't concerned with whether or not once could even leave a message now and I think I hung up before being asked if I wanted to.) So, what does this look like to you? To me it's pretty clear that Bazza is willing to go to great lengths now to prevent me from hearing his voice again. Even if it means giving up this whole synchronized info thing with his website, he's dropped it. I also tried Bazza at home. Guess what? There, too, he's gotten rid of his own message and replaced it with a generic automated one from the phone company. I'm sorry, I could be wrong, all that, but I'd say that this is all pretty damning for 'ol Baz. One thing that Bazza told me was that when he was a premie in England he lived in a 'secret ashram' of WPC types that did all sorts of silly cloak-and-dagger things for Raja Ji. He loved that shit. He's an intrigue kind of guy. Rob was one of the few people, if not the only one, who ever came out swinging for Maharaji only to wake up to the truth mid swing, as it were, and realize the guy's a cult leader. That's what he told us anyway. Bazza's the only guy we know of who came out swinging against Maharaji only to claim to wake up to the 'truth' ('that feeling' he supposedly missed) and start watching videos again -- and liking them! I tihnk that at this point Bazza should get a big, fat asterix next to his name. Did he go back? Did he ever really leave? Sure, I think my earlier-stated explanation of him being sincere even if he and Rob were one and the same is quite reasonable. But now that I'm more persuaded that he lied to me about being Rob, I have to entertain the more interesting possibilities. Rob was a game player. That's admitted and beyond dispute. If he was really Bazza then we know that Bazza is a real game player too. Doesn't mean that he wasn't sincerely out of the cult for some time but it sure throws everything up in the air, in that regard. In short, I would not, at this point, feel obliged to concede Bazza as an example of an ex who's gone back. No way. But what if Bazza was Rob and he wasn't sincere at all times except the first Rob period, the time before Rob admitted he was fucking with us? Well, that's what I mean. Everything's in question regarding him. And yes, I have to admit, even some of the more far-fetched conspiracy theories gather some appeal in the circumstances. Not enough to persuade, though. There just isn't enough information.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 12:36:15 (EDT) From: Roger eDrek Email: None To: Jim Subject: The voice of Rob, maybe? Message:

Alleged WAV file of Rob, courtesy of Sir Dave, I think.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:23:55 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: How we left it Message:

Thanks, Roger, but that clip's not going to do it. Anyway, here's how we left it. I told Bazza that the ex who had a phone relationship with Rob could settle the matter in a second. If she could just hear Bazza's voice, she'll know. I suggeted that all he has to do is leave me a voice mail. He doesn't have to talk with me or anything. I mean, it must be terribly embarrassing to become a premie again, if indeed that's what's happening. I understand that. But what if Bazza wasn't Rob? Shouldn't he be so righteously insulted by my suspicion that the last thing he'd want to do is indulge my insulting fantasy? No! It's not every day that an FA, of all things, someone supposedly committed to exposing Maharaji, bolts back to the cult. And what's his explanation? That Brian treated him a little harshly? Give me a fucking break! Bazza was more than acclimated to a little interpersonal frisson. No new age ninnie, he. No, Bazza's move here is suspicious. And what I know of Baz is that he, of all people, can appreciate that.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 00:43:56 (EDT) From: Richard Email: None To: Jim Subject: Does this mean Bazza is an Ex Ex? Message:

Ex-ex is a whole new catagory. Bazza was a premie, then an ex-premie now an ex-ex-premie. In this case do two negatives make a positive? I suppose we could call him a Dos Equis. And when he leaves M again he'll be an ex-ex-ex-premie or XXX. Now that's what I call an X-rated premie.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:27:02 (EDT) From: janet Email: None To: Richard Subject: Re: Does this mean Bazza is an Ex Ex? Message:

and if he changes direction aGAIN, that makes him a fourex premie. which is a brand of condom. made out of sheep's entrails. so, i guess that means, that, by that time, he's feeling so sheepish, he's decided to wear a layer of shielding, between him and any seminal ideas that might otherwise get under his skin, in the event he has any penetrating encounters with seductive personalities, offering him their mind- obliterating love, in return for all his money.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:41:01 (EDT) From: Roger eDrek Email: None To: Richard Subject: Wonder if Bazza was X-Rated? Message:

what would that make him, an Ex-Ex-Ex-X-RATED? You go, Bazza, you go!

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 00:43:17 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Two more tidbits Message:

Over on LG, Bazza replied denying my allegation as expected. However, he slipped. He said that he blocked me from even hearing his voice mail a while ago, as soon as he 'started meditating again'. However, as I reminded him, that's simply untrue. I've gotten his voice mail several times over the past few weeks. Most importantly, I got it a few times just two days ago when I was trying to reach him as I thought we were still friends. Indeed, Bazza did not stop me from hearing his voice until I questioned whether or not it was the same voice in Rob's message last year. So he's lying about that. But then there's this: Rob cultivated at least one phone relationship with an ex. She advises me that Rob too had an english accent, a high and friendly voice, just like I say Bazza has (she's never heard Bazza's voice unfortunately). Here's the good part. She told me that Rob once called her from a convention last year where he claimed to be working as a writer. The name of the company was Citrix. On Barry's website he lists all the conventions he worked at last year. One of them was Citrix. Coincidence?

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 22:38:27 (EDT) From: Catweasel Email: None To: Jim Subject: Yeah? Message:

Christ I cant believe you are all so slow. I liked Bazza. That shoud have been enough for you. As well he really wanted me to EMAIL him.Didn't you wonder why? I challenged him about being Rob way back. And he came out fighting. Now here's the rub. You talk about WPC and all that. How dumb were you. We weren't talking about last decade or anything we were talking just walked out of backstage...And in you rushed. Then again you could be WAY paranoid Jimbo. Just goes to show you still have no idea who you are talking to with a name (or without!) Catweasel ...still pissing itself....BWHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAA HAAAAAAA

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 15:43:22 (EDT) From: Ian Dury Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: CW-Rawat must be REAL PROUD of YOU! (nt) Message:

[nt]

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:42:37 (EDT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: You are so disgusting: FA BLOCK this guy Message:

I dislike you totally catweesel. If being a premie of the greedy guru makes a human being turn act like you, and I have seen many, I have now one more reason to cheer for having left such a sick mentality. I knew I didn't belong 'there'. I know now why ex-premies dislike you. You need help men. You get into everything. Yuck! I wish you luck cause you need it boy: No brains to form a valid arguments. As a kid you rely only in put downs. People care if they are the same person and with your stupidity you want to invalidate THEIR reasons for wanting to know? ABUSIVE.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:08:05 (EDT) From: CW Email: None To: Silvia Subject: You are so illegible Message:

It would seem you are very similar. How do you like the mirror? Please Silvia ,you seem so....EMOTIONAL!

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 20:48:01 (EDT) From: Silvia Email: None To: CW Subject: Is that an insult? No Message:

It would seem you are very similar. How do you like the mirror? Please Silvia ,you seem so....EMOTIONAL! --- You fricking robot! HOW SILLY CAN YOU BE? DO YOU THINK YOU CAN OFFEND ME calling me emotional?? You have forgotten how to be human and how to feel, thanks to your jailer. Don't you know emotions are good? Oh, I remember: Guru says that the ONLY emotion a person should have is servitude. Cry for him baby, cry. Long him, and your life will pass you by and you will have nothing more than forgotten GOD dreams. He is not your friend: He is your security blanket! He doesn't empower you, he has made you weak and weak you look. I live today and accept each of my parts without shame. My ex-master wanted me to feel ashamed of my humaness, the bastard, but hey, what does he knows about life anyway. He lives in his little miserable 'bubble', getting drunk, lying to thousands of people....I sleep like a baby and don't have to drink or smoke dope. NATURAL, REAL. Can you say that? You are a total asshole; I enjoy pointing it out. LOL You have bothered few around here and I feel like telling you how stupid you look; is the truth. GROW UP!

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 20:18:00 (EDT) From: Sir Dave }( Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com To: CW Subject: Any worse & I'm deleting you Cat Message:

You cat, are not only illegible but your grammar is appalling. I will not let standards here drop to those of Australians.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 23:56:31 (EDT) From: Catweasel Email: None To: Sir Dave }( Subject: Re: Any worse & I'm deleting you Cat Message:

Now thas snot fare

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 00:38:29 (EDT) From: Jamie Catweasel Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: Re: Any worse & I'm deleting you Cat Message:

And Dave what was wrong with my little career advice to big Jim . Is not a meatologist a creative and inspiring career? Is it such a shameful thing that it should not be mentioned. Its product and high priests dressed in crisp smooth white so as not to offend and to gaurd agaist discovery of its true source - the charnal house of bovine hopelessness. Mad cow that I am , I saw no harm. Hell even a little spam occaisonally is refreshing with chopped onions. Anyway ...Bon Apertif....I'll try not to osso bucco these joint discussions. Now I know you'll roast me over this but hey that's nothing to get all steamed up over!

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 06:31:06 (EDT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Jamie Catweasel Subject: that is funny Message:

to give u som credit. som brein

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 05:39:53 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: Yep I DID WONDER Catweasle Message:

when he asked you to email.....I remenber it well. And I think I was the only ex who not only DISliked Bazza but ALSO had doubts about him. It takes more than sharp, smart, on the surface personality exchange for me to like someone. ADMIRE his cleverness though , well that's a different ballgame......and yeah I did.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 03:29:50 (EDT) From: PatC ;) Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: You took the words out of my mouth Message:

I was just thinking about the exchanges between you and Bazza while reading Jim's posts above. I must say that they stick out very clearly in my mind because Bazza and I were exchanging emails trying to pin you down. I can't comment on the Rob link (other than that they are both brainy geminis) as I was not here but I can attest to the fact that Bazza did love playing cloak and dagger games. I think he may at one time have tried to become an ex and made a great gungho effort to join the ex club, especially to ingratiate himself with Jim. Then the shit hit the fan and he went back to meditating and, like you, he somehow thinks he needs his holeyness to get high.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:32:36 (EDT) From: donner Email: None To: PatC ;) Subject: Re: You took the words out of my mouth Message:

just for the record, this is the kind of stuff on this site that i could care less about...and, the kind of stuff that is often referred to by new folks joining the conversation that is distracting to the process of providing information and context to aid in the withdrawal from the cult. and the kind of thread that invites the cats back into the mix. too bad in my opinion. who cares if bob is rob is whoever some months ago. lost focus.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 15:32:13 (EDT) From: PatC ;) Email: None To: donner Subject: Excuse me for being so unsynchronized Message:

This forum is just such a fucking mess - total anarchy, no focus, too many OTs, no one agrees with anyone, full of silly gossip. Gee, it sounds like the real world. I've read a few of your criticisms of the lack of focus or incivility of the forum and I'm just glad that no one here likes rules or it would soon be a nicely synchronized little cult.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 16:20:45 (EDT) From: Richard Email: None To: PatC ;) Subject: I'm with Donner on this one Message:

Pat, the point is not to create a synchronized little cult in reaction to chaos. The point is how much threadwidth needs to be dedicated to tracking down and beating the shit out of whoever Rob was/is. There's always room for humor, I tried to inject some in this thread, but enough is enough. Jim, Bazza defended himself at least 5 times over on LG against your accusations. Isn't that enough? If not then I doubt the matter will ever be resolved in your mind. Meanwhile M still fiddles while the forum languishes in what amounts to obsessive harrassment of Bazza. I value your contribution except when it erupts in these seemingly endless obsessions with anonymous trolls like Rob, CD et al.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 17:16:16 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Richard Subject: You're missing the point, methinks Message:

Yes Bazza has defended himself . Fair enough. It is enough. I don'y think anyone is looking for an actual witch hunt. The Point is Donner is saying stuff like this should NEVER be discussed because (a) it's not good for the image of the forum ....and I disagree with that.......it shows healthy, open debate IMO and (b) it detracts from the real focus. Again the real focus will always be there....there's no need to worry about that at all.No matter if there are OT threads or 'Bazza threads(which is not completely OT, again IMO Yes it is petering out .....and it was after all, only a couple or so threads. People ALWAYS have the choice to ignore and not read them. But to suggest they shouldn't occur is just wrong . All sorts of discussion adds zip to the forum .....and come on for , chrisakes, afte the bust up of f5 and Bazzas role in that, for better or worse, it's just RIDICULOUS for there NOT to be some interest from SOME people. Cheers Richard and no offence meant to you or Donner on this ....but come on !!!! :)

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 18:43:21 (EDT) From: donner Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Re: You're missing the point, methinks Message:

its not the image at all that i am concerned about. the focus, and just my opinion. you might notice that i rarely comment on these type threads for that reason, just temporary insanity...human too i guess, after all. but notice the comments from newcomers like annie and many others and the focus they respond to. and richard was more to the point i was trying to make really...thanks

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 16:39:40 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Richard Subject: I'm very fond of Bazza Message:

The Rob episode took place before my time but I am very interested in Bazza and anything that might cast light on him.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:09:52 (EDT) From: Selene Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: you've lost your head ot Message:

I hope you know I was only joking about the b) head. I didn't mean to take him away from you. I don't much care, justlike to use him once in a while, so to speak. There, how's that for unsynchronized and silly and off topic. hopefully I will continue to be so when I feel like it, w/o the need for a slap on the hands. cheery Monday.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 15:10:50 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: donner Subject: Aren't we self-righteous today? Message:

Good one, Donner! Listen, were you here at all when Rob first came upon us? That was as a PAM, etc. (I know that's boring to you but some of us former rank and filers still, and always will likely, find something a little interesting in that). Rob created quite a stir in phase 1. If you weren't around, no biggie, of course. At one point, he even got Gail, an ex from London, Ontario, who'd spent virtually her her life in the cult, to believe that he would meet her at a program and get her hin (she'd been barred). She took time off work but, sadly, it was all a ruse. Then, Phase 2. A repentant, introspective Rob, despondent and guilt-ridden, deeply confused, actually contemplating suicide (fairly convincingly, I might add). A few people actually took an interest, can you imagine? Then, Phase 3. Rob's 'okay' now and posting away, a robust, sharp contributor to this page. Suddenly, he's gone. But not before establishing at least one, fairly intense phone relationship with a female ex. Not your problem, I know. But, yes, you're right, Mike, all this personal shit detracts from the streamlined presentation. You've got my deepest apologies.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 18:49:07 (EDT) From: donner Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: Aren't we self-righteous today? Message:

hi jim...me thinks your deepest apologies contradict the headline re being sef righteous today!. i am not much simpathetic to the distinctions of so long past..rank and file and PAMs...but...nor the historic chronology, believe it or not, i'm more an in the moment kind of guy. (i'd add a smiley face here if i knew how to use them easily without needed any effort to learn...another one here).

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:42:24 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: donner Subject: My aren't we lightweight today too? Message:

Anyway, Mike, not to worry. Here, let's see if we can learn how to make a smiley face together. What happens if you just go :) [meaning, one stroke of <:> followed by another of <)>] Did it work? Well, boys and girls, let's see!

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 00:12:41 (EDT) From: donner Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: My aren't we lightweight today too? Message:

<> <)>]

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:57:54 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: donner Subject: If you don't care Donner Message:

Then , in effect, you are inviting anonymous and non-anonymous people to to play decietful mind games at least and to seriously devalue the credibility of the site and forum.I , for one , was sick to death of the falsities perpeptuated by premies in the Divine Light Mission and then Elan Vital. It's also better and healthier , imo, to discuss relevant ( and I stress relevant ) matters in public, out in the open as far as possible. To ignore issues or discuss them behinfd closed doors ( thus excluded many who have been affected ) harks back to cult pschology. Of course the main focus here is obvious but a totally blinkered approach without healthy debate of all sorts of extraneous events/ issues that are not just of interest but mayalso have CONSEQUENCES is essential. IMO. It might look like a pretty new age picture but it is HONEST. IMO

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:17:03 (EDT) From: donner Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Re: If you don't care Donner Message:

hi, your right, 'if i don't care, why do i respond at all'?? temporary insanity, slap me next time. i'm a new age guy, just ask jim. but i have told jim in an expired thread where he asked for comments re what cd really meant that i personally tire of him trying to use the forum as a jury in his stuff with others...having said that to him below and publicly, i'll repeat it here again for what its worth and now i'll go back to trying to be more selective in my responses and in my reading...i generally like to be involved in this forum but find it tedious at times digging thru to what i am interested in...and i have seen others comment to that effect here also...but, i am not trying to control this forum...but feel i can put my two bits in now and again.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:59:03 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: donner Subject: Yep Donner Message:

Your two bits are always welcome ...of course. I think everyone eventually uses the forum as it best suits them and that's how it should be. And if you notice the blue rectangle to the left on your screen just near the forum title EX-PREMIE FORUM ...you'll also see the link 'forum heads!.....that's where you learn to do the smiley face :) And yes I agree that Annie needs something more substantial than the 'Bazza controversy' but possibly when she settles in and feels comfortable and knows who is who, she may broaden her reading or be more selective. The good thing about the forum is that the choice will be available to her. Cheers Donner...Take care.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:59:59 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Dermot Subject: 'not look' near end not 'look' Message:

zzz

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 15:38:42 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Dermot Subject: It's Monday. Dermot Message:

I thought you were going to do some work?

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 17:24:46 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: Re: It's Monday. Dermot Message:

In my good mannered way ( :) ) I thought I'd check to see if there's anything to reply to and then inevitably got sucked in here and there. I'm not even gonna READ from tomorrow let alone post ! I'll return all good natured, articulate, focused and polite :) Actually it would be interesting to return quite a while from now and not know what's been going down .....and see who's new, who's gone. I think though I'll take a leaf from your book and others and not bother the folks over on LG next time round. A pointless endeavour unless of course premies are lurking but because they are actually having serious doubts about Maharaji would never dream of posting. Still, I think I'll leave the premies alone. Who am I to force my opinions on those who don't want it? Cheers Pat

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 06:34:08 (EDT) From: Catweasel Email: None To: PatC ;) Subject: Spy vs Spy Message:

How about he may well have had other motives to find out who I am? You think about it Pat and then you'll realise why I'm so slippery. If you were a IT genius how hard would it be to track down a renegade weasel? To know is to control.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 13:39:25 (EDT) From: Roger eDrek Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: The ever important Catweasel Message:

Come on, ya little weasel. I mean who the fuck really gives a shit about you anyway. You're just an annoyance, that's about it, man. It's not like you are this great crusader or anything. You're just a creepy troll with a big sick stupid mouth.

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 05:10:44 (EDT) From: w Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Re: The ever important Catweasel Message:

:)=

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 19:11:18 (EDT) From: CW Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Re: The ever important Catweasel Message:

About the same as you

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 20:09:22 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: CW Subject: Drek v Weasle? Drek, any day NT Message:

zz

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:22:46 (EDT) From: CW Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Drek Sucks Message:

The Truth is I've never really given a flying f##k about competing. And by restricting my personality I am really truly one dimensional. The button may well be pressed one day. Then we'll see some fireworks!

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 02:29:17 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: CW Subject: Ha hahahahahahaha HA! Message:

Fireworks? Oh my God, it really is time for bed. Thanks for letting me end the day with a smile, Cat. You cult members! What a funny, funny crew you are!

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Date: Tues, Aug 07, 2001 at 09:30:31 (EDT) From: CW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: Ha hahahahahahaha HA! Message:

you lawyers! Laugh! All the way to the bank...................

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 20:57:48 (EDT) From: Deborah Email: None To: All Subject: Regarding the EPO newsletter Message:

Hi you guys. I've decided to withdraw most of my time on the EPO so I can concentrate on my school work, goals, etc. And I don't have time or energy to argue with the premsters. Many posts (even on EPO) get me upset and it's hard for me to handle my own current disappointment in the Maha and his BigLie and pile on a lot more at the same time. This is not an insult. I'm just saying I feel very sensitive and can't be overwhelmed. However, I would like to stay abreast of all developments and learn about the history of EPO and posters etc. Solution: Start making the newsletter. So I am requesting that you offer your ideas if you have not done so already. REQUEST: Could some of you put NL for Newsletter when you see a good post or email link or something like that so I can spot them easily. This will make my lurking time more productive. I'll print out the post for my files so I have the date, time, etc. and figure out how to organize the newsletter. My time will be limited so I won't be reading as much as I have been. I've been on borrowed time. It's been real guys. THanks a lot for your support. I'm leaving after this message is posted and won't be responding for a few days, as a matter of fact I don't want to go near a computer for a few days. I have a paper due on Tuesday. I have to write up a review on a film noir movie that I haven't seen yet. SEPTEMBER will be the first issue. My goal is to have the draught ready by mid-September for your review. Final ready at month's end. Please help out with this project, any assistance will be greatly appreciated. Take care, and don't take any wooden nickels :)

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 06:13:33 (EDT) From: Salam Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au To: Deborah Subject: Re: Regarding the EPO newsletter Message:

your idea makes sense, except there is a problem of how to get to all the relevant posts. There are hundreds of posts a week, here, on LG, AG and other place. How can anyone in his right mind collects them? Am prepared to do the html formating and host the pages is you can get hold of the posts. If you want you can e-mail me and talk about it

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 02:46:57 (EDT) From: wolfie Email: None To: Deborah Subject: see you later...thanks NT Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 22:14:35 (EDT) From: Selene Email: None To: Deborah Subject: I'll be in touch Message:

And I think you are making a good decision. We all have lives. Isn't that the point of leaving a cult? You'll hear from me in email. Love, Selene

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 21:34:18 (EDT) From: Francesca :C) Email: None To: Deborah Subject: Take care of yourself! Message:

Dear Deborah, It sounds like you've made a wise choice. Get on with your studies and goals! I'll try to remember your code and I'll stay in touch. love, Francesca

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 00:29:29 (EDT) From: Richard Email: None To: Francesca :C) Subject: We've been using **Best Of** Message:

The habit has been to put **Best Of Forum** after a particularly outstanding and pertinent post. These have been complied faithfully by Jean-Michel and put on EPO. That system has worked very well and I hope will continue. Thanks JM! Good luck with your other concerns Deborah. There is life beyond the threads.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:34:30 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: All Subject: Does any ex remember Message:

the time in DLM /EV history when all Divine Times papers, and it is divine mags etc were called back in ....to be shredded??? The beginning of the ' great leap forward' ie revisionism. It definitely happened but I'm vague on the details.....I'd given my mind away at the time:) Any one with the facts/ dates/procedures etc ? A post by Norma over on LG remeinded me of it.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 07:48:11 (EDT) From: Ian Dury Email: None To: Dermot Subject: My recollection Message:

Around 1980-81 when the ashrams were shut down, there was also a directive to destroy videos, cassette tapes, slide shows and photos. Many premies thought is was very strange at the time, but we were used to getting very strange direction from DLM/EV, so it was done. Luckily, they were not all destroyed, so evidence of the REAL past history of DLM/EV still exists.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 18:54:07 (EDT) From: Richard Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Archives were purged Message:

I was designing and producing those publications in Denver in 1978 - 1979 or so when many old posters and original artworks were destroyed. Had I known before hand I would have saved some of the original artwork. There were huge archives of old posters, broadsides (bigger posters), transit posters, etc. Soul Rush, Millenium and Lord of the Universe stuff, plans for the Divine City, etc. If I'm not entirely historically challenged, I believe Michelle Deradune who posted on FV for awhile, was the keeper of the archives and in charge of the file purge. She may recall more. I have virtually all of the And It Is Divine, Élan Vital, Divine Light and many Divine Times plus ssorted Indian DLM pubs. I believe highlights of these are already uploaded on J-M's site and possibly EPO.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:34:05 (EDT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Dermot Subject: I still have many of them Message:

It was on the early 80's, wasn't?

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:39:12 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Silvia Subject: Maybe scan some Message:

prime pre revisoinist words'pics onto EPO sylvia? Maybe John or Jean Michel would have a better idea about that ///// no idea about copyright and legal infingements though.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:57:46 (EDT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Re: Maybe scan some Message:

It depends what do we want to do with it. Deborah has my e-mail address and she has posted hers here before: Get mine from her and we can talk more freely. take care! (I have a scanner) silvia

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:30:37 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Silvia Subject: Re: Maybe scan some Message:

Hi Sylvia Was just thinking of having some ' Iam god' and ' look ayt me having my feet kissed' stuff on the EPO web site but as I say only if it's legal. But Jean Michel , I think, does a lot of the uploading. Cheers Dermot

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 12:06:58 (EDT) From: Silvia Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Re: Maybe scan some Message:

Legal? What do you mean? I gave Jm few of the darshan pictures he has in his site: He shouldn't have a problem putting them here. They are from Divine Time magazines. tell, me, maybe I'm missing something.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 19:27:23 (EDT) From: Deborah Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Dermot--check email [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:36:00 (EDT) From: Deborah Email: None To: Silvia Subject: Re: Silvia, hold on to them Message:

Check email

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:58:57 (EDT) From: silvia Email: None To: Deborah Subject: I Just responded Message:

Please give Dermot my e-mail address. I din't want to post it here for obvious reasons. I must go out now. We'll 'talk' later. :)

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