Ex-Premie Forum 6 Archive
From: Jul 14, 2001 To: Aug 07, 2001 Page: 2 of: 5


Timmi -:- broadcast -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 12:59:00 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Re: broadcast -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 20:01:13 (EDT)
__ such -:- Re: broadcast - more brain lobotomy -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:03:12 (EDT)
__ Dermot -:- Good luck with -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:06:28 (EDT)
__ __ timmi -:- Re: Good luck with -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:12:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ hamzen -:- The squeeky voice, I remember it too well -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:38:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- Exactly, Timmi :) NT -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:14:03 (EDT)

Carl -:- Carl Spackler meets the Guru -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:09:44 (EDT)
__ Carl (#1 - ?) -:- FYI, this thread is by a different Carl. -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:35:45 (EDT)
__ __ Dermot -:- Guess the Carl..R E drek ???:) nt -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:41:01 (EDT)
__ Ian Dury -:- Carl, you da man!! (nt) -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:24:29 (EDT)
__ such -:- I spackled some holi pic nail holes. [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:57:56 (EDT)
__ Dermot -:- Haha :)...NT -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:27:44 (EDT)
__ __ RichMandrake -:- Ahh for the Classic 'Caddyshack' afficienado ;-) -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 10:35:34 (EDT)
__ Carl Spackler -:- Carl uses Spellcheck -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:18:22 (EDT)

Salam -:- To ex-premie webmaster -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 10:19:12 (EDT)
__ suchabanana -:- will post Pat Halley's letter soon... [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:52:35 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- What are you talking about? -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:48:25 (EDT)
__ __ JHB -:- Here's the link that I removed:- -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:06:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Re: Here's the link that I removed:- -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 05:48:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca ~) -:- I came to the same conclusion [nt] -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:52:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: Here's the link that I removed:- -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 05:57:09 (EDT)
__ __ Dermot -:- Jim ...Bazza left a message -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:00:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- Also Jim -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:08:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Hi Dermot -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:31:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Re: Hi Jethro -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:39:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Current theory -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:24:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Maybe your theory is correct John -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:47:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- It was correct - EPO not hacked -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 01:18:19 (EDT)
__ Barry -:- Pie incident comic??? -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:01:00 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- Re: To ex-premie webmaster -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:18:09 (EDT)
__ __ Dermot -:- It's not u , its whizzkid Bazza, John nt -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:08:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- BTW JOHN ..VERY SERIOUS POINT -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:11:29 (EDT)
__ __ timmi -:- Re: To ex-premie webmaster -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:20:03 (EDT)

annie -:- like joining another twisted organisation!! -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 09:06:34 (EDT)
__ Salam -:- Re: like joining another twisted organisation!! -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 06:33:37 (EDT)
__ McGruff -:- Re: another twisted organisation! -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 10:56:43 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Try the Recent Exes Forum -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 18:25:13 (EDT)
__ suchabanana -:- peeling cult-onion layers -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:44:48 (EDT)
__ __ fanann -:- Re: peeling cult-onion layers -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:46:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ suchabanana -:- whirling dervish is ok -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 01:00:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ annie -:- Re: whirling dervish is ok -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 04:50:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ BTDT -:- Re: whirling dervish is ok -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 10:50:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Annie Re: whirling dervish is ok -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 06:08:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ PatC ;) -:- Excellent advice from suchabanana, Anna -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 04:06:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ fanann -:- Re: Excellent advice from suchabanana, Anna -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 05:02:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC ;) -:- Annie, get your gun -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:05:11 (EDT)
__ Barry -:- Ya, but this organisation.... -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:14:42 (EDT)
__ __ fannyann -:- Re: Ya, but this organisation.... -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:36:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ Barry -:- I'm glad you like! nt -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 02:03:06 (EDT)
__ A Friend -:- Re: like joining another twisted organisation!! -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:09:15 (EDT)
__ Dermot -:- And you think others don't -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 10:31:10 (EDT)
__ __ fanannie -:- Re: And you think others don't -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:05:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- Yep I understand what you are saying -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:23:17 (EDT)

PatC ;) -:- Sunday Sermon: Feeling vs Thinking -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 05:54:01 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- PatC: It sounds like you're a 'postie' now -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 00:18:49 (EDT)
__ __ PatC ;) -:- Terrific compliment, Postie -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 03:38:38 (EDT)
__ Francesca -:- Here's the heart of it, for me -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:59:35 (EDT)
__ __ PatC ;) -:- I was thinking about my second ex-husband -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 03:47:18 (EDT)
__ Timmi -:- Re: Sunday Sermon: Feeling vs Thinking -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 12:42:36 (EDT)
__ __ PatC ;) -:- I'm glad somebody liked it, Timmi -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:34:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- Pat, it's one of those -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:49:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ PatC ;) -:- Yep -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:28:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Re: Yep -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:53:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC ;) -:- Yep - it's busty time -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:02:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Typo: busy not busty ! NT -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:56:42 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- je pense,donc je suis [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:33:19 (EDT)

Steve Quint -:- Fireworks III -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 01:59:19 (EDT)
__ PatC ;) -:- I'm green with envy -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 03:54:40 (EDT)
__ Francesca :C) -:- Best wishes to you, Steve -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:27:19 (EDT)

Richard -:- 'Master' instead of 'Knowledge'? -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 23:23:59 (EDT)
__ suchabanana -:- da massa concept trap indoctrination -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:23:31 (EDT)
__ Jerry -:- Re: 'Master' instead of 'Knowledge'? -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:41:38 (EDT)
__ David -:- Ancient lies -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 08:07:27 (EDT)
__ BeenThereDoneThat -:- Re: 'Master' instead of 'Knowledge'? -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 01:00:10 (EDT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Been there,I don't think you got the point... -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 03:52:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- la-ex: So intuition = mind? -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:04:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Gut instincts -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 12:01:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Well put Jerry NT -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 12:39:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- One thing I like in your post Ddog -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:34:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- That's absolutely UNtrue! -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:53:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- I'd already rethought it long before -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:15:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC ;) -:- It's easy to con a dog too -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:03:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Yep Pat, I stand corrected NT -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:17:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Re: Jim, Pat, Dermot and Jerry -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:23:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC;) -:- Intuition and the ''Zone'' -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 20:49:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Time to read some science, Dog? -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 18:56:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Then how do you explain Santa Claus DD? -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 18:05:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Come off it Richard -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 18:14:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Re: Jim, Pat, Dermot and Jerry -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:50:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ annie -:- Re: Been there,I don't think you got the point... -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 06:41:57 (EDT)
__ __ Silvia -:- Nothing plotted? -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 03:11:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- You are RIGHT ;) [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:24:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ BeenThereDoneThat -:- Re: Nothing plotted? -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 03:50:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Silvia -:- Thank you -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:44:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Nice post -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 06:30:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- BTDT you made my point for me -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:23:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ BeenThereDoneThat -:- Re: BTDT you made my point for me -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 00:04:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- float upstream, relax and turn on your mind :) [nt] -:- Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 21:28:56 (EDT)

Jim (reposted from AG) -:- Was Bazza 'Rob'? -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 15:26:47 (EDT)
__ swami suchabanana -:- Bazzin' in his desires,+ Rob-bin mahacukaraji? -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:15:26 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- ?? [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:31:41 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- Unlikely -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 19:20:26 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- No, John, it's the other way around -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 19:25:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Re: No, John, it's the other way around -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 19:37:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Speculative timeline -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 20:00:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: Speculative timeline -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 20:49:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Jim, the phone call -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 20:18:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Honestly? -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 21:10:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Baz, the door is always open... -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:11:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- As long as he doesn't HACK !!!!! NT -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:20:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Doubly ironic -:- Re: Honestly? -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 21:33:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- D ironic = Dermot, duhh NT -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 21:36:07 (EDT)
__ Dermot -:- The Bazza thing. -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 17:32:56 (EDT)
__ Deputy Dog -:- Jesus Jim, has it actually come to this? [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 16:26:50 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- What's that mean? [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 16:27:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- It means - get a little perspective Jim -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 18:13:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- No, YOU get a little perspective -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 18:24:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Re: No, YOU get a little perspective -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 23:40:14 (EDT)
__ Francesca -:- No vast right wing conspiracy! -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 16:07:21 (EDT)
__ Steve Mulley -:- No definitely not -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 15:48:59 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- But did you ever ask him? -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 16:34:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ Steve -:- Re: But did you ever ask him? -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 05:37:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Sorry, that just makes me more suspicious -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:23:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ Zelda -:- Re: rob vs rob -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 22:40:54 (EDT)

Lonnie Donnegan -:- Once there was a mountain, then was no mountain, -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 15:18:11 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Very good [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 22:53:42 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Except -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 22:57:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ Sandy Denny -:- It was just a brit play on name similarities -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 06:36:42 (EDT)
__ salam -:- Re: Once there was a -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 22:02:39 (EDT)
__ __ The Incredible String Band -:- About a minute -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 06:39:59 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Poor - must try harder [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 22:54:33 (EDT)

it-IS-so -:- update -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 14:17:05 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Re: Salam, could you put a picture? -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 15:55:54 (EDT)
__ __ salam -:- can't do that -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 16:02:16 (EDT)

TED Farkel -:- You might be doing service if... -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 13:06:45 (EDT)
__ Dermot -:- Re: You might be doing service if... -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 18:04:40 (EDT)
__ __ Jethro -:- You reminded me of the time -:- Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 21:42:40 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Can I have a lg. Nectar w/my Guru Whopper? [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 15:59:35 (EDT)
__ __ Selene -:- ick! be careful what you ask for -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 17:51:17 (EDT)
__ gerry -:- Re: You might be doing service if... -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 13:11:39 (EDT)
__ __ Richard -:- Re: You might be doing service if... -:- Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 13:18:59 (EDT)


Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 12:59:00 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: broadcast
Message:
Oh, goody boys and girls! For everyone who couldn't cough up the $45 to help cover less than 50% or 30% or whatever the portion of the 'costs of the day' weren't covered by the 'requested donation', you can still catch the great rawat on the broadcast today! I know you are all on the edge of your seat waiting to hear what the master had to say there. Wait. I don't hear a massive rush toward the TV sets, though. Hmmm... Could it be that there are thousands of people who actually don't plan their Sunday around catching the master fraud's words? How odd. What a shocking thing! Is it just possible to have a life without a master fraud invading one's psyche constantly? What a concept. Ooops, 'concept' is a bad word, right? 'Thought' is a bad word, right?
Know what I hate? His thing about thirst. Or hunger. That you don't have to think about drinking or eating. When you 'feel' hungry or thirsty, you just do it. You don't 'think' about it. Well, you bloody well had better have thought about it enough to go to the store and buy some groceries to eat or water to drink before you were hungry or thirsty, or you are screwed. It won't matter how thirsty or hungry you feel. If you haven't already thought about your potential needs, you are out of luck. And no 'master' is going to bring you a drink or a plate of food. So, rawat, butt the hell out of my life and leave my husband alone! We have a real life and I intend to fight for that and for my husband. You have poisoned him for three decades. Back off.
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 20:01:13 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: Re: broadcast
Message:
Hi Timmi,

Brilliant post, as usual. Maha has his hands full without you, I'm sure he doesn't have a spin like 'disappointed premies' in place yet.

Have you ever written the BigHead? It would be interesting to see what he or his posse have to say to that post.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:03:12 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: Re: broadcast - more brain lobotomy
Message:
lobotomize brain -- implant da cult concept chip -- then feel the thirst, feel the need for the Massa, always depend on the words of da Massa-fix, now please to feel the wallet [which you will not be needing], and give in synchronization to da Massa, slaves!
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:06:28 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: Good luck with
Message:
de-programming your hubby, Timmi.....sadly, you'l probably need it, in spades.

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:12:14 (EDT)
From: timmi
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Re: Good luck with
Message:
I know. But, this is my life, and it is worth it to me to try. And I haven't lived for 50 years to finally decide to have a life, only to have some short, fat, squeaky-voiced ass take it from me.
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:38:57 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: timmi
Subject: The squeeky voice, I remember it too well
Message:
One of the first doubts about big boy was around that for me.

Being interested in body work at the time, and the effects of being 'in the zone', on myself and on others, there was one clear body truth about those experiences. People's voices always resonate more, and from closer to the solar plexus.

Big boy never exhibited this tendency, except on those very rare occasions he was obviously more relaxed.

Thankfully I had the dodgy concept of lila to comfort me, and that gm was the master at blowing our concepts.

Of course now I know he is the master of getting away with blue murder, even if the size of the group that fell for it is tiny.
He is the master, because when you step back he is so patently of the second hand car saleman school it's laughable, but there we were happily conning ourselves to avoid dealing with hard reality.

Best of luck Timmi.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:14:03 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: timmi
Subject: Exactly, Timmi :) NT
Message:
xx
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:09:44 (EDT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Carl Spackler meets the Guru
Message:
Its Me..Carl...You know me as the Assistant Groundskeeper At Bushwood Country Club...Made famous in the Movie 'Caddyshack'.

Well...I was talking to some Premies the Other day...great people...those premies...and someone pulled out some Sensimilla/Bluegrass and we was smokin the Begeezus out of it...When the Subject of The GURU came up..

Well...I had to tell them that in the old days when I was a Loopa....a Caddie...I was traveling through the Himalyas and took a job at a course..I told them I was a Pro Loopa...and Who do ya think they Gave Me to Loop For?.....Yep..The Guru...Maharaj JI.Himself.....Fat Stomache..Flowing Robes..Full of Grace..The whole Nine Yards...

Quite Impressive... And The Guru Turns to Me and Says..Hey..You...Did you know that if Guru Maharaji just Started to close the Door on you...Just the SUCTION of That Door Would Be SO Powerful..Just The SUCTION that you Wouldn't Know what HIT you..
Im Think to Myself does this guy ALWAY Talk about himself in the Third Person?..Seems a Little...full of himself..Probably NOT gonna Be A Big Tipper ...But what The Hell...I Got a Job to Do...So I Take out the Driver and give it to the Guru..and He CRACKS one..Bout 5,000 yards into The Bottom of a Glacier...Big Hitter the Guru..and he says to me..Not even a Leaf moves on a Tree without My Wish....Quite Impressive..
Well By the 7th hole he's developed this wicked slice...maybe a few to many cognacs..and he starting swearing in between puffs of a cigarette. ...well i think hes swearing at me...slurring invectives I think they call it....telling me im almost as bad as those Fuckers Dettmers and Donner..and stuff like that.....Im thinking....This guy is kinda strange for being the all powerful Lord of the Universe but Im just glad Im not these Dettmers Donner Cats...

So We get to the 18th Green and I see the Gurus about to Stiff Me...So I say to him..Hey...Guru..How bout...you know....a little something for the Effort??...And HE says to Me..Oh...there will be No Money...but on your Deathbed...You will Receive TOTAL Consciousness...So I got THAT going for me...Which is Nice...

So I Tell this story to the premies...in between tokes on the Bluegrass/Sensimilla...and They're BLOWN Away...Start Talking about the GRACE of The MAster...and How LUcky I Was To Have DARSHAN..and all This Stuff...Totally Ignoring that their Lord was A Drunken Stiff who Couldnt break 100 even though hes got all the leaves in the Universe under his control...and i think to Myself..Carl you are one LUCKY Cat...Not to be in this Cult, Man...Anyway...I got Bigger Gophers to Fry...Nice talking with You...CArl Spackler..HEAD Groundskeeper, Bushwood Country Club...

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:35:45 (EDT)
From: Carl (#1 - ?)
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: FYI, this thread is by a different Carl.
Message:
Hi Carl.
If you plan on continuing to post, perhaps we should make some distinction in our 'handles', although your prose style is quite different, to say the least!
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:41:01 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Carl (#1 - ?)
Subject: Guess the Carl..R E drek ???:) nt
Message:
xxx
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:24:29 (EDT)
From: Ian Dury
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Carl, you da man!! (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:57:56 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: I spackled some holi pic nail holes. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:27:44 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Haha :)...NT
Message:
zzz
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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 10:35:34 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Ahh for the Classic 'Caddyshack' afficienado ;-)
Message:
Nt
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:18:22 (EDT)
From: Carl Spackler
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Carl uses Spellcheck
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 10:19:12 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: All
Subject: To ex-premie webmaster
Message:
Am not sure if you are aware that your site has advertising for the maha,

video clips

You may want to take some action.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:52:35 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: will post Pat Halley's letter soon... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:48:25 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: What are you talking about?
Message:
When I go to the page I just see the links for the videos. The links don't work. Is that the hacking you're talking about?
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:06:45 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Here's the link that I removed:-
Message:
Here it is for Jim and anyone else who missed it:-

http://216.87.182.67/promos/pat_halley.html

John.
[ Calling card ]

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 05:48:03 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Here's the link that I removed:-
Message:
John,

Am not sure if u're getting this rit. The link that I posted is a page on ex-premie site, this page links to Bazza's site. Though the link to his site does not occure, typing in the ip address will still take you there. What you need to do it remove the whole video clips page off the ex-premie site.

For the paranoids, Bazza is more cleaver than leaving his finger matk that way cause he knows the consequences of his action. And no, he has not hacked the site. [ at least no from where am sitting].

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 11:52:55 (EDT)
From: Francesca ~)
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: I came to the same conclusion [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 05:57:09 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Re: Here's the link that I removed:-
Message:
Yes, Salam, I got it right. The EPO page had links to Bazza's site (the address I quoted), where he had put up the video clips. He no longer wishes to host these clips, and so had replaced the clips with his ad for Maharaji. I'll take down the page when it's certain we don't have those clips elsewhere.

John.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:00:51 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim ...Bazza left a message
Message:
which John may have now deleted ........a big colour sunset with the script saying he'd gone back to the master
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:08:35 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Also Jim
Message:
I know all you guys all loved Bazza and I appear to be the only one who didn't but I'm just calling it as I see it. The gushy message he left proves my point to an extent.

That's why I ask if the site is Bazza proof. Am I being malicious, vindictive or overly paranoid? I don't think so....do you guys?

I get the feeling you, John , Pat, Gerry et al ( why do I get that feeling? dunno) that somehow cause I'm drawing attention to someone you all very much liked I'm somehow out of order. Or again am I paranoid.

In my book Bazza is very skilled comp wise ....has been on the inside and has ALREADY changed the site without letting ANUONE here know.

So what do you guys think? Am I just anti-social or is there legitamate cause for concern.

I appreciate EPO and would hate it fucked up. I'm just the messenger.....don't anyone shoot me, ok?

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:31:22 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Hi Dermot
Message:
I totally agree with all you've said. I don't know that much about high-level web design, but in order for the FA to change the code they would need the source code and build a in a back door.

The message said that 'the owner had found his way back..'. Does that mean that Brian has reverted to being a premie? or was/is bazza the owner?

Anyway, I've been having a great summer going to alot of festivals(NOT those) and having THAT experience with people who don't have k and have never heard of m.

I suppose it must be my mind telling me I am enjoying life.
Oh well what can an old Manmut do but just hang on as long as possible, because I know that there is no hiding place from maharaji(as he told Bob Mischler when after he performed Bob's marriage ceremony. He was warning Bob not to get divorced).

Must go and enjoy the sunset now

Take care

Jethro

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:39:03 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Re: Hi Jethro
Message:
Great to hear from you......glad you're having a good summer break ...keep enjoying your life bro and don't worry about maha fucking you up ......I'm sure you don't anyway.

Well it did say web owner but I think Bazza dealt with the video stuff .....his area of expertise. I don't know enough about the technical side of things to suggest greater security. Somebody will probably know though.

Cheers Jethro

Dermot

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:24:57 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Current theory
Message:
I'm waiting for J-M to confirm, but the theory I'm clinging to at the moment is that the links were genuine, and that Bazza had done some work for Jean-Michel converting video, and was still hosting the files on his own site. If so, then he simply replaced the files on his own website with the sunset page. If so, there's no evidence of hacking of EPO.

But Gerry, I don't think you're out of order in your views. Yes I got on with Bazza. I thought he was foolish in what he did, but at the time not malicious, and I think he's foolish in going back to Maharaji. But you have to wonder about his intellectual capacity and motivation. Maybe maharaji really does have some paranormal powers and zapped him that time he did the video work as an ex at the Miami programme:-(

John.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:47:32 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Maybe your theory is correct John
Message:
It makes sense if the epo was just linking to Bazzas site.

Even so .....it'd be good to know the site was as secure against hacking as can be.

I'm a dumbo as far as that stuff is concerned though.

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 01:18:19 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: It was correct - EPO not hacked
Message:
Bazza was hosting the video clips, and replaced them with the sunset screen.

Panic over:-)

John.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:01:00 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Pie incident comic???
Message:
Speaking of the pie incident? Does anyone know how I can find the comic strip of M running the Macdonalds tye place and the guy comes in and orders love and peace? Then I think he gets a hammer in the head by M's goons etc...Jim showed it to me on his pc a while ago. He didn't say, but I think a poster sent it to him, or directed him to the page where it is..I'd really like to save that one..Jim? Anyone?
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:18:09 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Re: To ex-premie webmaster
Message:
Looks like we may have been hacked - I'm looking into it, but please be aware that I haven't gone back to Maharaji!

John who has renounced Maharaji and all his pomp.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:08:27 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: It's not u , its whizzkid Bazza, John nt
Message:
zz
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:11:29 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: BTW JOHN ..VERY SERIOUS POINT
Message:
IS THE SITE BAZZA PROOF? Or is there a copy of the whole in case of sabotage. He's already proved he can change part of the site....and he does have comp skills .....just thought I'd mention it.
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:20:03 (EDT)
From: timmi
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: To ex-premie webmaster
Message:
Looks like we may have been hacked - I'm looking into it, but please be aware that I haven't gone back to Maharaji!

John who has renounced Maharaji and all his pomp.


---

Thank heavens!

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 09:06:34 (EDT)
From: annie
Email: None
To: All
Subject: like joining another twisted organisation!!
Message:
i'm new to this forum, and starting to find it to be even more head-fuck. feeling like i've had enough of any kind of shit. i came looking for support and have received some(thankyou all involved) but the other crap starts to outweigh this. i'm in a stange place right now, and don't feel like such vindictive behavior is quite where it's at. it's a shame some people can't see the bigger picture... everthing in life has it's reason for being even if it is hard to understand. the 'm' thing is something that pushed me to take control of my life , to believe in myself , in my own strength, to trust in my intuition, which is such a beautiful thing. so somewhere i feel gratefull for that. don't get stuck in a whole other mind bending trip, be free, continue to live and learn...let it go man. we are all left to pick up our pieces, and i'm sure i'll feel all kinds of feelings from resentment to hate and anger, but i've still got that connection with my heart, which i have major trust in and it just says 'let it go'.( not meaning to be some wise woman, it's just a feeling that seems to really work)...annie
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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 06:33:37 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au
To: annie
Subject: Re: like joining another twisted organisation!!
Message:
Annie,

This place can be overwhelming at times. Many people that post regularly have left the maha a while back making their post appear to be as if it's a mind fuck. I always thought that f5/f6 can only give you that much support, the rest comes from knowing people on the forum and e-mailing them or your own efforts. But in many cases all you have to do is ask for help and you'll get it.

I personally left the maha over 20 years ago. The only contact I have with m and k is through these forms. But there is Anything Goes and RE where you can take it easy. If you feel you want to talk about what you feel to someone of the forum, you can e-mail me and am sure that there are others that don't mind doing so.

Take care

Salam

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 10:56:43 (EDT)
From: McGruff
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Re: another twisted organisation!
Message:
My two cents (probably all it's worth) is forget ALL the forums and Internet BS. These people have an agenda of lies and hate...they use people to no end, and god knows why they want to talk you into our out of something.

You have a life, it's a gift, enjoy it. Practise Knowledge if it feels good, forget it if it doesn't. It's that simple. Everything else is BS.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 18:25:13 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: Try the Recent Exes Forum
Message:
It sounds like you are in a difficult state at the moment - hang in there. Recent Exes Forum is a forum more appropriate for the support you are looking for. It is available via email request at recentexes@yahoo.com.

If you haven't already done so, it is helpful to read some of the information on ex-premie.org especially the Best of Forum posts located via the Site Map.

All the best in your journey.
[ Best Of Forum ]

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:44:48 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: peeling cult-onion layers
Message:
is the real mind-shtup -- also, remember that not everyone here is gonna agree with each other -- it's an internet forum, after all. A healthy diversity of opinion and free expression is important, however -- vs. cult-think, cult-speak...

still got that connection with my heart, too. But -- no rugu/premie brain lobotomy anymore. Creator endowed us with brain + heart = holistic approach.

'vindictive' is therapy for some, letting go of repression, some were abused, some want to expose da cult hypocrisies + abuses and r.e. m's rote cheat and deceit perpetuated on aspirants and premies.

Annie, there is a recent exes forum, too. if interested, contact dave, the FA.

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:46:57 (EDT)
From: fanann
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Re: peeling cult-onion layers
Message:
i dig what ye say, if these people didn't post all this revealing stuff then i and loads more wouldn't have much of a clue. as i read more, i'm feelin less anxt about things, this place is allowing me to realise some very real issues, it means i have less room to think that maybe i was wrong about my gut feelings, after all it's still a very new thing for me and maybe all the BULL still has a bit of a hold on me somewhere.....i could scream, i swear i'm spinning!!!!
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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 01:00:03 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: fanann
Subject: whirling dervish is ok
Message:
Dear Annie,

Regaining one's own bearings as a unique human being is just part of the cult recovery process. We each have to take one step at a time, after all. There's bound to be lots of muck from built-up impressions [samsaras - haha] that start flying up, various emotions [some perhaps unexpected], then some peace within ourselves -- an interesting growth process, whereby people report feeling a new strength inside, independent Not co-dependent anymore, more curious about life and other sources of information and wisdom, as well as reviving personal goals and interests.

One need not give up an abiding faith in oneself or the universal life energy [if one believes in a higher power]. That same energy is and will always be there for us here, as it was from the very beginning of our lives -- before we ever got involved in any trips, spiritual, worldly or otherwise.

Yes, as prem's puppets cut the falsely indoctrinated strings of puppetmaster attachment, some of those strings may pull at first -- causing some pain/angst. But steadily those false strings are cut, and then the pain subsides as one rediscovers personal freedom - w/o fears, anxiety, or uncertainty anymore.

Then, our growth continues anew, and we can accept any wisdom we may have gained, in the process and over many years of life's experiences, and throw away the unnecessary and unhealthy chaff of psychological bondage and a maha personality cult co-dependency. Looking at life without imposed blinders - but with a new clarity and a wider panorama.

Freedom feels really good! The premies posting at LG, for example, can't understand the exes here [who also come in all sizes and shapes, too] or an alleged obsession on the part of those who are actively engaged here. However, just as many of us did 'service' for many years, so do some folks here feel a calling to help others coming from a similar predicament now, too -- as best we can, and to the extent that one can accomplish anything on the internet.

Yes, the internet is a powerful tool. We have put many factual pieces of the cult puzzle together now - from so many many eyewitnesses, documents, and credible sources - that a more complete picture has been revealed that was not presented to our view. Ok, so we are actually dealing with truth now, and sorting out what is subjective, what is objective, and what is real to us, not false messages anymore. Remember, 'no cheat no deceit'? hoho [Frankly, after many years I learned the real meaning of that lesson.] That does not mean: 'do as I say, not as I do.' Or 'believe what I say', or just because I say something over and over that it must necessarily be true. Truly, psychological cult conditioning is not hard to break, once one understands the mechanisms operating -- and holding everything up the light of Truth. That light revealed to me a hidden darkness and pattern of falsehood in what I once so readily and gratefully accepted as part of a greater truth. Perhaps, in God we trust-- but accepting no substitutes for our precious hearts and souls and minds.

Feeling with one's heart is fine, but never to the detriment or demonization of the very intelligence that we have also been gifted with, and never confusing emotional co-dependency and conditioning with truth. We need not accept or subscribe to any more superstitions, concepts, hazy beliefs spoonfed to us again -- by anyone. After all, the unexamined life is not worth living.

there need never be any more external intermediaries between us and our own sense of truth and reality. whatever we have experienced is still ours; it is simply No one else's property or monopoly. we then take what we feel/think is essentially true, good, necessary, and important to us -- and move on. Stronger, clearer, and with an openness to life itself as the teacher -- with Life itself as the Teacher, guiding us from within. Not master/slave, not guru/dogs, but realising the source of Life itself now as our truly beloved, and making the most of this life and each day joyfully with the talents and opportunities which we may have been given. Simply enjoying one's life -- smelling the flowers, walking along beaches, seeing a movie, eating a good meal, and having a healthy supportive network is definitely ok, too.

At least, that has been my personal experience.

May that same universal energy which has created all things manifest and unmanifest continue to bless you in this life, Annie.

Peace and lentils,

da lil' swami

P.S. btw, lots of people exiting the maha personality cult have also sought some sort of professional counselling, in dealing with the related emotions, pain, etc. definitely no stigma there - whatsoever. This cult exit process is also kind of like a 'divorce'; the neater and cleaner the break, the better.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 04:50:38 (EDT)
From: annie
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Re: whirling dervish is ok
Message:
v. much appreciated, there is strength in your words and much clarity. something real still runs strongly through me, i've just got to let go of all the 'm' stuff, part of me doesn't want all this info here to be true, i feel so gutted that i've spent the last 10 yrs(nothing compared to some) always beleiving that i was working towards knowledge. i don't know how people will view the fact that i never received 'k' maybe some will think i have nothing to whinge about, but 10 yrs with this going on feels like a v-long time.( i'm unsure if i've explained my story if u like, but i'll say a bit here ) i got involved at 19, alot of my close friends being premies,or working towards it. i was blown away, loved it, made 'k' my next step in life. it was a long step, but always being reminded ,watching vids, listening to tapes, talking with friends, until about 8mths ago when i made a firm decision to want that 'k' in my life. so vids all the time, meetings etc. etc. until the 'k' pre-selection, which i have to be gratefull of because it was this that brought me the most doubt so far, it left me feelin' weird, i ditched the tapes etc. then a month or so later, after my friends had done their magic on me, i was back again, this time for the big one.....da da da....an event!! in nottingham, england, i even took my daughter (8yrs old) on one of the days, she came out skipping and dancing!! i was feelin' on top of the world especially as i'd got together with some friends that i hadn't seen for years!! anyway, i wonder if anyone here has heard of or seen this, but 'm' put together the most suggestive vid. with his children in also, god channel came to mind, brainwashing also, it was so obvious, even my premie friends were spun out by it, it was like he'd now given a sneak preview about his true colours!!!! thats what did it in the end, enough already, i then proceded to look at the other side, which my partner had tried to tell me of previously, when out of respect for me he had a look at the e.v. site etc. but also found x-premie, (i didn't notice it when i looked )and that brings me to now. the nottingham event was mid june, i really started looking on x-premie this week!!

fannyann xx

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 10:50:55 (EDT)
From: BTDT
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: Re: whirling dervish is ok
Message:
I haven't heard anything about the video you mentioned seeing at the program in England. Would you mind remembering what was on it?
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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 06:08:27 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: Annie Re: whirling dervish is ok
Message:
Annie that was a great post from Such....hope it hepled you a lot....it helped me.

It puts my advice in the shade as jsut being shallow and superficial ....sorry 'bout that.

But I really do wish you all the best.

Cheers me dear

Dermot.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 04:06:25 (EDT)
From: PatC ;)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: suchabanana
Subject: Excellent advice from suchabanana, Anna
Message:
I haven't followed your arrival here too closely because I have been busy elsewhere. Did I read that you had been an aspirant for the past ten years? Sorry if I sound nosy but are you in a relationship with a premie? In fact I'd like to hear all about you.

This forum takes a lot of getting used to. I've been here for 6 months and figured it took me at least half that time just to get to know the regular posters so that I could understand what they were saying deeply and not just cold words on a screen. It also helps to read more of the EPO site - the Journeys, Indian Background, Mishler, Dettmers etc. Good luck and kind thoughts.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 05:02:48 (EDT)
From: fanann
Email: None
To: PatC ;)
Subject: Re: Excellent advice from suchabanana, Anna
Message:
thanks patc, i've been looking lot's at all the info from mishler and dettmers etc. i don't know much history, so i'm unsure on who people were/are in the 'm' files, so i'm kinda feelin' like i'm still running on blind faith, if you have and suggestions on how i can make this info. more concrete i'd much appreciate that. i love the info on the techniques and am thinking of trying some, it feels good to be able to do that in my own way now!! with zero credit to 'm' or 'bulldog' as my premie friends father calls him!!
cheers dear....annie
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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 14:05:11 (EDT)
From: PatC ;)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: fanann
Subject: Annie, get your gun
Message:
Hi Annie, I just read your story above in your response to such and have a bit more of a picture of you. Thanks. Please feel free to ask any questions you want. If you feel I can help but I am not on the forum when you are you can always email me. All the info can be a bit overwhelming. It was like an emotional roller-coaster ride for me for the first few months. It really is like getting a divorce because of the amount of love and trust that we invested in his holeyness. Just make a quick, clean break and have the determination to stand on your own two feet and trust your own strength. Anyway it sounds like you have a supoortive partner and I am happy for you.
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:14:42 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: Ya, but this organisation....
Message:
doesn't take all your money, it doesn't tell you when you can eat, fuck,shit,or sleep. It's just faceless people getting a foothold in the real world on a pc screan. I don't think there is really anything to fear...if your worried about getting mind raped ,like M did to most if not all his pupils. I say if someone is mind fucking you here..fuck-em back. After all this is a ex cult forum...meaning 'welcome back to reality. Now grab a stick! Because reality just seems to be getting worse!' The reason most took solace in these cults in the 60's and 70's was to find this sweet poopy doopy place of love and comfort. Sorry. It's not real. We are animals in a some-what animal kingdom. You gotta bite that low-grade beside you who's trying to nibble on your meat or your gonna loose mind...I think that's really how it is. Harsh? Well....yes!

Barry

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:36:26 (EDT)
From: fannyann
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Re: Ya, but this organisation....
Message:
i like your reply...made me laugh..xx there is alot of good stuf here, it seems to be keeping my head more level concerning'm' otherwise i don't know where i'd be heading.....hopefully not wishy-washy back to the damned!!
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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 02:03:06 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: fannyann
Subject: I'm glad you like! nt
Message:
fff
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:09:15 (EDT)
From: A Friend
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: Re: like joining another twisted organisation!!
Message:
Treat the Forum as the ER room, where you can get a variety of feedback in Real Time. The larger sites as the medical library where you can study and effect the balance that you are calling for right now.It also includes a best of Forum.

I think you have your priorities right. Your heart and sense of well being and balance are the main thing. It belongs to no thing or no one
but yourself.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 10:31:10 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: annie
Subject: And you think others don't
Message:
have a heart Annie? Of course we do. We all do.

But a discussion forum where decades of life experience in a cult is disccussed/come to terms with etc is bound to throw up all sorts of exchanges and communications especially when in Rawats world everything is all focused on a false, rose tinted view of 'that experience' with no room for intelligent, probing and, yes, sometimes
explosive communication.

Life, I'm sorry to say consists of the good, bad and ugly. Of course we value our heart but if we also don't value our mind then the crazy cult think rules supreme.

I try to use heart and mind in my life and be sincere. I don't claim to be perfect and don't think anyone else here does.Just human, hopefully :)

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:05:04 (EDT)
From: fanannie
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Re: And you think others don't
Message:
of course i realise that others have a heart too!! i just wasn't seeing MUCH evidence of that here. of course i saw it in some of the posts, in fact some of the posts have been so spot-on I LOVED THEM i just seemed to have to sift through loads of other crap to get to the good stuff. as for life being the good the bad and the ugly.... well i can be very much all of these, but if you have bad, bad, bad, ugly, ugly, ugly, good, good....well there isn't much of a balance is there!!!!!?
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:23:17 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: fanannie
Subject: Yep I understand what you are saying
Message:
but I can't help but re-iterate that it's just a discussion board. Of course , take it seriously to an extent but don't take it so to heart that it upsets you.It isn't a 'movement', no one is in charge per se, it is a meeting place for diverse individuals who've shared a common history.

Anth is fond of pointing out ( and I agree) that the forum is ephemereal. Leave it for a while and you're pretty much forgotten. The threads come and go . Try scrolling up and down to view the threads but don't read them...all that brain power, all that discussion, all that exchange....as I say....the good , bad and ugly all contained. Often though you will find the love and support you need. It is there. The people here can empathise. In fact add it all up and you've got hundreds and hundreds of years of cult experience here!! :)

Just don't expect from a forum what a forum cannot actually GIVE. Sorry if I'm coming over all preachy. I don't maen to and I don't wish to offend your sensibilities.

Take a break even. I'm trying to extricate myself from the forum one more time. I'm too busy!!

I think I'll just stop reading / posting from Monday hahaha :)

If I read one post I get sucked in and before you know it time has flown by.

I must confess, I don't know your full background vis-a-vis leaving Maharaji. The time scale involved and all that.I'm just sort of responding spur of the moment. Time for a cup of tea and down to some other stuff I have to do.

Hmmm hold on .....I'll just read one more post :) ..........!!!!

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 05:54:01 (EDT)
From: PatC ;)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: Sunday Sermon: Feeling vs Thinking
Message:
Really I should say ''Feeling vs Words'' because ''feeling'' is also a way of thinking but is subliterate.

Random thoughts follow: What if expremies had been posting on bulletin boards like Quantumlink (for C64ers) or the Well in SF in 1980 when I wrote my first letter of disapproval to Rev Rawat? I think I may have saved myself from another 20 years of lazy, feelgood, fallacious thinking - the sort of thinking that is barely literate or often subliterate and leads to confusion because of the mixing in of feelings. I'm a well-read person so I've always had an unease about the careless or disrespectful use of words; too well-read to enjoy the brash lowest common denominator language of Madison Avenue but not well-read enough to see through the New Age neologisms of Miragey (thanks JohnT for that phrase.)

New Age feeling/thinking vs Old Fogey literateness: This dichotomy (in a slightly singed - okay charred - acidhead) forced me to overcome the latter (my initial distaste for Rawat) and talk myself into believing in him. The seeds of my final divorce from him were already sown 30 years ago. Now I think of Rawat very much like I do of my second ex-husband (also a premie.) I had never before felt anything as exquisite as I did till first opening myself up to them. Neither of them ever knew to what extent I had opened myself up to them and both in the end turned out to be unbalanced love affairs and not perfectly mutual. Passionate love has it's own rewards even if it is unrequited but must be mutual if it is to bring any sense of completion or honor or peace of mind. And I always knew that Rawat was incapable of providing anything but lipservice - no not that kind but that may have been better than the narcissism he dished out as a substitute.

In the end I parted company with rawat because his disrespect for words (after 30 years of exposure to the nuances of British English, American English and Colonial English) was so obviously a ploy, fake, phony and deceitful. I didn't become an expremie by reading EPO. I became an ex by reading the revisionism on maharajidotorgy and elanvitaldotorgy long before I saw EPO. The lies and spin then became too obvious.

As I've said before - rawat could appease most exes and get us off his back if he just came straight out and said that he is selling adoration of his videos mixed in with some old kundalini kriyas which can produce delusions in susceptible people expecially when then mixed with some heavy religion like what his holeyness said a few weeks ago in Mainz - ''You can't come home without the Master.''

That says it all for me. Exactly why I am still posting here. This is a very nasty and creepy thing to say to anybody. Of course it is what he has been saying all along and just begins to sound really nutty when you divorce him and say ''Sorry fella. I enjoy all the feelgood stuff but the truth is the truth is the truth and fudging is fudging is fudging.''

I haven't had much time to read or post lately but i looked at a few threads yesterday and found that, no matter how well-behaved the premie anonymice are, I cannot bare to read their posts. Maybe Jim can (and he even answers them) because he deals with some pretty unusual folk that us middle-aged, middle-class cocoonists don't often meet - you know like some of the defenseless (or is that indefensible?) people he defends. But I find the premies who post here pretty loopy and not at all like the ones that I know in real life. Most of my premie friends are like the exes that I know - ordinary middle-aged, middle-class people who happen to have a Master. (Down boy, sit, fetch, good boy.)

There's Cosmic Traveller over on LG. I see CT maybe once a month when we get together. He thinks I'm a hippie because we both 420 and despise the establishment. He doesn't realize that I'm really of an older school - even predating the beat generation - bohemian. La Vie de Boheme was as hedonistic as Flower Power and Yippies but also more literate. The only people who could afford to drop out, tune in and turn on to La Vie were kids from wealthy families. In the sixties PhDs from Yale smoked joints and shared chicks with Puerto Rican plumbers from Brooklyn. CT is a poet but not a well-read man. I know that one day he will get the whole picture but right now he really is just on the finge in the Haight. (Sorry CT if you read this - I will never respect you completely until you have read all of Shakespeare and understood all of Mozart's music for the human voice. Fair's fair - I had to sit through all the rock n roll in the sixties when I was only really there for the sex and drugs.) CT and I talk around the topic of M and K with the occassional foray into disagreement only for me to back off finally because I am a firm believer in giving people lots of rope. No, you did not misunderstand me. I prefer self-immolation to triumph anyday.

There's my long-time friends in England whom I have known for up to 35 years. (I've heard that no friendships are stronger than those formed in one's 20s.) Most of them are New Agers and I probably would not be friends with them if they were here in SF. We talk around the topic of my exness politely.

And then there's the local premies most of whom are fairly ordinary people in San Francisco where having a Master usually elicits the response ''Woof!'' And that's a compliment meaning ''Oh what fun. Is he into SM, BD or WS?'' I hate to think what some Sri Lankan with only his imperfect Brit Raj English to guide him makes of all this. Thank god I am not writing this for anyone but a small audience of literate exes.

And there's the rub - rawat's messianism has led him to lower his usage of English to the lowest possible common denominator. He may be a success in Mauritius but is woefully inadequate when dealing with the west. The only people who will listen to him in the west are the same people who have their TVs tuned in permanently to the QVC shopping netowrk or the Psychic thingimajig. He's absolutely unprepared to deal with most ordinary highschool students in the west. I even think that most highschool students in Africa would find him silly. His days are numbered. Give him enough rope.

Finally, dear premies, I parted company with Rev Rawat because I do enjoy the kriyas rawat calls ''Knowledge'' and feel that his holeyness has corrupted them out of ignorance or greed or simply incompetence and has made it impossible to talk about gyanyoga with a straight face to sensible people. It could have been a whole lot of fun for all of us but instead Rawat has chosen to ''save face'' (and stash away those shekels) rather than face the truth.

Two posts mentioned an interesting thing about the premies who post here. One said they were wrapped in saran wrap and another said they existed in a bubble. That bubble is the toxic Maharajism (''...never doubt the purity of the Master...'' - Miami 2001) which has been shrink-wrapped around some simple yoga techniques for stimulating the part of the brain that is not used by the mind. Everyone knows that the mind must be disciplined or else it becomes useless and sometimes deluded. But how many know that feelings must also be controlled especially if they lead you into a bad relationship? It is not easy to break the feelgood infatuation with Rev Rawat but it must be done if you want to attain strength, independence, peace and contentment.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 00:18:49 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: PatC ;)
Subject: PatC: It sounds like you're a 'postie' now
Message:
I finally had some time to read through your ramblin' hookah side chat. I love it! When I say you sound like a 'postie', I use the term I lifted from my premie friend. It refers to those people who formerly followed GMJ as pre-mies and now have become post-ies. That's why I used 'Postie' as my nom de forum before I grew cajones and posted as myself. I did not particularly relate to being an Ex, though that is what I became after years of not being involved with K. But I feel more and more Post Premie than Ex Premie these days. I'm satisfied to post the occasional observation and support anyone looking for it, plus the odd poke at the Bhakti JuJu. Like you, I know that many currently practicing premies that are friends are much more complex than simply eye-pokers. For the most part they live wonderful lives and don't ever given M much thought. They go to the odd program and feel good and go home and check that off their list. M's their guru and that's that. However, if they do have questions I have plenty to say.

There's at least a half a dozen good threads folded into your rambling post and I'm certain they will reincarnate as someone's 'original' thread - maybe my own. Great to read your thoughts.

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 03:38:38 (EDT)
From: PatC ;)
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Terrific compliment, Postie
Message:
...coming from you and having the honorable title ''postie'' bestowed on me. Thanks. I know I have nothing more original to say to exes. I've had my say but occassionally I'll look in and see a bunch of new names and yesterday it seemed that anonymous premies had taken over the joint so it felt like time to rehash a few obvious thoughts.
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:59:35 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: PatC ;)
Subject: Here's the heart of it, for me
Message:
Dear Pat,

If someone only read this part of your 'sermon,' they'd have a gem:

Everyone knows that the mind must be disciplined or else it becomes useless and sometimes deluded. But how many know that feelings must also be controlled especially if they lead you into a bad relationship? It is not easy to break the feelgood infatuation with Rev Rawat but it must be done if you want to attain strength, independence, peace and contentment.

One must always look at the relationship and not merely the feelgood. People get into all sorts of unhealthy relationships when what is unhealthy for them, at some point, became a turn-on. I know for myself with everything I ingest, with conversations I engage in, books and magazines I read, etc., I have to see whether I'm feeding myself (and others) toxins or whether I'm advancing the ball. Junkies feel good when they score and even better when they shoot it up. Why it's even fun to puke after that.

Feeling good and liking to do something is not always a great criteria. After all, if my mother hadn't taught me how to behave, I'd probably still be bopping other people over the head and taking their 'toys.'

Thanks Rev. Thelma,
~) Francesca

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 03:47:18 (EDT)
From: PatC ;)
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: I was thinking about my second ex-husband
Message:
as much as his holeyness when I wrote that. I had never before had such an exciting friendship and such elegant sex and I gave myself to him totally. It coincided with my first years as a premie and I was convinced that all the pain that my ex caused me was divine retribution for not surrendering and loving his holeyness exclusively.

Only later, when I met my ex in Rome for the first time in ten years, did I realize that it was his infidelities with casual acquaintances which had caused all my pain. He was not the marrying kind and thought nothing of cheating. Well, the same could be said about his holeyness. Wait until Marolyn stops taking percocet and smells the coffee.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 12:42:36 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: PatC ;)
Subject: Re: Sunday Sermon: Feeling vs Thinking
Message:
Thanks, Pat. I enjoyed this post tremendously.
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:34:53 (EDT)
From: PatC ;)
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: I'm glad somebody liked it, Timmi
Message:
I posted it at 3am and it looks weird in the cold light of day - too rambling. Just hope it wasn't as full of non sequiturs as Rev Rawat's sermons. Now you could turn your husband's Sunday satellite sermons into a bit of fun by sitting there and making notes of what miragey says and quoting it back to him later. Eventually he may see that his holeyness speaks with forked tongue or at the very least simply speaks absolute nonsense. At least your hubby isn't watching wrestling on TV and drinking a sixpack every hour. Come to think of it - that might be better. Good luck, Timmi.
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:49:51 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: PatC ;)
Subject: Pat, it's one of those
Message:
read, much enjoyed but, peculiarly enough, not commented upon posts :)
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:28:48 (EDT)
From: PatC ;)
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Yep
Message:
I just read your post re bazza above and wondered if I was the Pat you referred to as not wanting to see any wrong in him. I haven't commented on him because I was not here for the Rob thingy. However the first thing that crossed my mind when B said he had returned to the lotus feet was that he had an awful lot of info about EPO and exes. I felt that he had never really resolved his exit fully. I emailed him a lot and found him overly gungho. I don't think he planned a sabotage but was actually always confused. Interesting that Zelda says Rob was a gemini. So is Baz. This latest little hack of his has made me begin to wonder exactly what he is up to but I think he is probably just another confused premie.
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:53:33 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: PatC ;)
Subject: Re: Yep
Message:
Yep I was referring to you but only using my very fallible psychic skills :)

Well it seems Jim reckons he was Rob, Steve (who's know Bazza a while) doesn't. I'm not sure.

But as John says above he could have just cancelled the links which went to Bazza s own site and not actually hacked EPO.

It'd be a pity if all the site one day was suddenley full of satsang though hahahaha.

I guess it's busty time for your restaraunt huh?

I'm quitting here again from tomorrow , for a while. I am I am I am !!

Anyway

Cheers Pat

Dermot

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:02:25 (EDT)
From: PatC ;)
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Yep - it's busty time
Message:
It's hot and all the customers are wearing decolletages.

I do see that all that B did was remove the vids from his own site and replace them with his announcement that he had returned to the urug. If Steve thinks B was not R I would believe him. It's not important to me anyway as I did not know Rob.

Good luck with going cold turkey tomorrow. I've got another month of 14 hour days and then I'll be back posting. But like Deb and Barry reckon - I am wary of providing material for rawat's spin doctors and won't be putting all my cards on the table anymore.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:56:42 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Typo: busy not busty ! NT
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:33:19 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: je pense,donc je suis [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 01:59:19 (EDT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: Fireworks III
Message:
Hello from West End Vancouver, home of the Vancouver annual fireworks presentation.

Tonight Spain was the presenter. The music was multinational, ranging from Bizet to Frank Sinatra and the fireworks were very delicate and beautiful.

My computer went down a few days ago and I haven't been able to get it fixed yet, so I only read and post when I'm visitin friends. Hope everybody's well.

Steve

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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 03:54:40 (EDT)
From: PatC ;)
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: I'm green with envy
Message:
I love fireworks ever since those marvellous displays in Kissimee which were the most elaborate I had ever seen till then. I read your first post about seeing the South African contingent's display and wanted to respond but did not know how to address your difficulties. You didn't mention being homeless or penniless so I am hoping that you have resolved you negative cash flow crisis and got a good job and a home. Best wishes for your continuing recovery.
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:27:19 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Best wishes to you, Steve
Message:
I was just wondering where'd you'd been because I hadn't seen any posts -- not that you're a postin' fool these days. Take care and be well.

bests, Francesca

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 23:23:59 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: All
Subject: 'Master' instead of 'Knowledge'?
Message:
You want to be fulfilled? Without the Master, you cannot be fulfilled. Why am I saying 'Master' instead of 'Knowledge'? Because without the Master, you can't have Knowledge. Without the Master, Knowledge makes no sense whatsoever.
Maharaji, Oct 17, 2000

Jerry posted this over at Lifes Great and it got me thinking. Is anything close to this concept ever presented to people coming to check out K these days? The intro videos I've seen are a far cry from the above quote - more like a Hallmark card inscription or the like. I'm curious, at what point does the 'aspirant' get clued into the fact that Knowledge is complete devotion to M? Does this happen slowly like the petals of a rose unfolding (hey, I'd be pretty good at intro night) or do they show up for DVD K-Lite and have the devotional boom lowered?

When I received K from Fakiranand in Tallahassee in 1972, he said 'you should be prepared to wait your entire life for K' and devotion to the SatGuru / greatest God-in-a-Bod to ever walk the planet was understood going in. The M quote from 2000 (especially with with the conspicuous use of a capital 'M' for Master) tells me the story has not changed a bit in the past 29 years. So why is it presented otherwise?

I think anyone approaching M&K these days deserves to know the entire package before hand. And premies please, save the 'don't feed steak to a baby' metaphors. I showed an intro video to some interested friends and they preferred the obviously devotional bootleg Holi video. At least it was honest whereas the intro video was obviously misleading. Same thing with another friend who went to an intro night. That was OK until she wanted to hear M speak and was told the planned Seattle event (later cancelled) was PWK only. That was a red flag re: different messages for different audiences and she declined further involvement. Intro materials are more like feeding mush to an adult, I'd say.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:23:31 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: da massa concept trap indoctrination
Message:
Elan Vital's approved Aspirin coordinators program da massa massage:

1. first, an Invitation, an Introduction to, da gooey nebulous 'life is great' INTRO vids, simplicity, feeling your own beat, etc. beaches, ticking clocks, clouds, people smiling, birds, flowers, sunsets...

2. then the ASPIRANT vids: da message remains da same, going at your pace, da Nature, a Simple Rhythm, then da importance of da master, da giver and da gift, da keeper of da key, ...

3. then the ASPIRANT ABOUT TO RECEIVE KN. vids: participation, devotion, surrender, trust in da massa, all I ask is 3 things: never reveal da techs., give kn a chance, and stay in touch [via service, money, and follow da massa]

3. then PWK vids {+ participation pitches}: w/o da massa, possibility of kn impossible; techs w/o massa = 0; at the time of death, etc.; believe in da massa, trust in da massa, synchronize with da massa, Amaroo money pitch, propagation sales pitch vids with 3rd-world country rehashed scenes, participate in propagation for da massa's new toys [scenes of da pilot and da jet], + voila -- da massa INDIAN vids > with full-on googoo feudal concepts finally revealed to da new pwks -- da hidden guru worship idolatry cult in full view in India, but ssshh [wink] in da Western nations, + maha talkin' about dada and using deliberate double entendres that imply massa is god-messiah-incarnate-da only one, using selected Kabir and other bhakti googoo quotes, vids of da happily married man with holi fam wife and kids, etc. ad nauseum...

dat's da video 'incultcation' process! dey got da aspirin coordinators communicating back and forth with de aspirins, sweet-talking and erasing their doubts, lulling them ever further into da clutches of da massa shackles, buying into da massa and cult concepts.

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Instead of maha cult indoctrination, how about this approach instead: We'd like to explain 4 basic yogic meditation techs... Ok. now, here they are --boom: try 'em..., and keep doin' the techs daily, if you like and wanna have an experience of your breath and inner sights and sounds. Well, hope you enjoy doing these techs -- and heck, if they're interested, show your family and friends the techs, too. Here's a 15 minute video and a lil' explanatory pamphlet, too. by the way, any donations would be appreciated. thanks. bye-bye.

no googoo no voodoo no rugu cult conceptual ladu doodoo.

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:41:38 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: 'Master' instead of 'Knowledge'?
Message:
What I think is that Maharaji is just saying whatever he feels like at any given moment. I think he's confused. He doesn't know how to present himself anymore. In India, it was easy because the party line never changed so you just followed the script. But here in the west, Maharaji is trying on different hats. He's bouncing around between being all that Hindu stuff and trying to present himself as a simple meditation teacher. He's just trying to be presentable and at the same time he's attached to his Hindu roots which pop up every now and then in his satsang. What's laughable is that Maharaji has claimed that the need for him is because of his 'clarity', when I honestly don't think the guy knows if he's coming or going anymore. He probably wonders each morning, 'which hat should I wear today? Hmm, which way is the wind blowing, what'll get a rise out of 'em?'

It's all bullshit.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 08:07:27 (EDT)
From: David
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Richard
Subject: Ancient lies
Message:
''Without the Master you cannot be fulfilled''

Ancient, archaic belief system based on the Indian caste system. Thankfully in the Twenty First Century, the internet will show up these obscene lies for what they are. Maharaji is exploiting people who are suffering from depression or general disillusionment.

The spotlight needs to shine upon him with a fierce light.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 01:00:10 (EDT)
From: BeenThereDoneThat
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: 'Master' instead of 'Knowledge'?
Message:
I don't think it was anything sinister. Some very ernest (sp)
premies noticed that people who came to check out knowledge were being plunked into the category of 'aspirant' when all they wanted was to learn a little more about the whole thing. It kinda evolved from 'intro' to 'learning more' to people who actually decided they wanted knowledge i.e. 'aspirants'. Usually as interest grew their questions would as well. The videos were just put in these categories to address that need. Nothing plotted or anything. Just ordinary type premies that saw a need and tried to figure out how best to help. There are some very sincere, sweet premies who try their best to be sensitive to each other and other's needs. Then, unfortunately, there are those premies that have all the tactics of sledge hammers. And I don't know what their real intentions are, but they aren't pleasant to deal with at all. Okay, that's an understatement. I know some might see this as contrived, but I hope you will believe me that this evolved from non EV/pam type premies. If it's different, and a nEV/pam verifies it, then I'll be the first to apologize and admit I was duped. Best Regards.
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 03:52:43 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Been there,I don't think you got the point...
Message:
The point that Richard makes is a good one; in fact, an excellent one.

It is because this is really the biggest deception that m and the cult promote.

First, you get the message that m is just a teacher of some sort...maybe a special kind of guy who is 'very respected'......premies will tell you nowadays that they don't really believe m to be anyone in particular, and they don't want to 'label' him...they'll let the aspirant come to their own conclusions etc....

Now, that sounds nice until you get to the point where you realize that m is saying a few things that are absolute bedrock concepts of his belief system.....

First, you need to practice knowledge every day without question, for the rest of your life....minimum one hour a day....

Second, he IS the Lord, if you believe the lyrics to Arti, which he allows premies to sing to him in India and Amaroo.
Of course, this is never, ever, told to the aspirants at any stage...in other words, are the aspirants ever given a copy of Arti?
Absolutely not.....most premies would be quite embarrassed if aspirants or friends/family/co-workers of theirs read the lyrics to arti and knew that they kiss maharaji's feet and sing arti to him.....

Third, you are to never doubt the master...also, he doesn't take questions from you, unless he has previewed them, and then picks the easy and silly ones to answer....
If you have doubts or questions, the best advice they give you is to watch more videos and meditate...

All of these beliefs need to be incorporated before you receive knowledge, and are a FAR CRY from what you were originally told when you came to the first intro program.....

YES, this IS classic 'bait and switch', 'don't give steak to a baby' etc....whatever you want to call it, it is just plain DECEPTIVE and a HUGE mindfuck....

M should have the balls to just come out and say who he wants you to think he is from the start, and how he wants you to treat him, instead of manipulating peoples emotions....

What M promotes is what I call a belief system (BS) with a Buzz....

Yes, there is a buzz you can get from focusing like a zombie at videos or programs and trying to stay 'in that place' all the time....

But the mindfuck that M puts on people is claiming that it's all just one big beautiful free experieince for the aspirant to take and enjoy in their life, with no strings attached, when ANY premie knows it is far from that...

It includes a lifetime of dependent thinking, feeling and behavior, an extremely rigid belief system that must be accepted (contrary to popular premie myth that it isn't a belief system), a subservient attitude and position towards m, constant money pitches for more toys, no answers abut basic questions like 'is m an alcoholic?'...because if he is, maybe I should know that BEFORE I get into this?....the list goes on for quite awhile...

What m does is take the buzz you can get from focusing on the practice, and then incorporate the belief system in with it....
Becaus you CAN get a high from it, then he obviously is the Lord, right?
And once he's got you hooked on that one, it's off to the races, because anything is possible.....once you give up the critical reasoning and common sense aspect of yourself, m is free to work his bullshit in your life....

I'd like to see at some point an intro letter to aspirants on EPO talking about these obvious lies and deceptions.....we need to ask the premies WHY they go along with the big lie....
Your doubing mind is not your enemy, as m preaches...
On the contrary, it is your 'bullshit detector' in life...it protects you from frauds like m, and only lets the real stuff through...it filters bullshit out, which is why 'leave no room for doubt in your mind' (or any other modern day similar belief promoted by him) is such a prerequisite for premiedom....

Good night...

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:04:12 (EDT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: la-ex: So intuition = mind?
Message:
So according to you, 'Our doubing mind is not your enemy, as m preaches... On the contrary, it is your 'bullshit detector' in life...it protects you from frauds like m, and only lets the real stuff through...it filters bullshit out, which is why 'leave no room for doubt in your mind' (or any other modern day similar belief promoted by him) is such a prerequisite for premiedom....'

Sounds like dangerous bullshit to me! No thanks. I'll trust my gut feelings over my mind any day. Mind can be manipulated by subliminals ,and other more overt programming. Your heart or higher self cannot be programmed, i.e. you can't con a dog or a little kid. They will know where you are coming from.

Mind is useful, but not all the time. We are more than the stuff we have recorded in our brain.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 12:01:12 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Gut instincts
Message:
Well, my gut instincts tell me there's something very wrong with waiting until the 'right' time to tell aspirants that Maharaji is some kind of supernatural being that is necessary for Knowledge to 'work', and that devotion to him is as important as meditating to get what you want. It's sneaky, pure and simple.
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 12:39:43 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Well put Jerry NT
Message:
mm
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 11:34:28 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: One thing I like in your post Ddog
Message:
'You cannot con a dog or a little kid'. That's really true.

......one thing though, yep gut feeling....or heart , whatever , yep we need that for discernment. But combine it with the ' mind' and you have one HELL of a bullshit detector. Best of both worlds.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:53:09 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: That's absolutely UNtrue!
Message:
'You cannot con a dog or a little kid'. That's really true.

......one thing though, yep gut feeling....or heart , whatever , yep we need that for discernment. But combine it with the ' mind' and you have one HELL of a bullshit detector. Best of both worlds.


---

What a silly, silly, silly thing to say -- you can't con a dog or a kid! Care to rethink that a bit? 'But mommy, he was really nice! He gave me an ice cream cone!

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:15:42 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'd already rethought it long before
Message:
you posted. aLSO I KNEW 100 % you'd pick up on it. ahhahaha.

I realised about 5 secs after but then didn't bother reposting.

Dermot the dumb
but not as dumb as you think :)

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:03:43 (EDT)
From: PatC ;)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It's easy to con a dog too
Message:
I've got five dogs. Sometimes I hoodwink them for fun (just to tease them) and sometimes because it's easier to trick them into doing something than force them. ''Let's go dogs. It's time for walkies - well actually it's time for the pill the size of a golf ball.'' But they come running happily if you use a cheerful tone of voice rather than the voice of doom. Yes, dogs are easily conned.
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:17:28 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: PatC ;)
Subject: Yep Pat, I stand corrected NT
Message:
zzzz
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:23:05 (EDT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Re: Jim, Pat, Dermot and Jerry
Message:
I stand by my post that kids and dogs can't be conned. I know that a lot of horrible things happen to kids, but IMO that is because they are helpless and can't fight back. Kids are highly intuitive, especially girls. I have many children and they can read my moods like a book.

Even adults are intuitive if they could just shut off their internal machinery and stop, look, listen and feel. But most of us are too busy being 'efficient' to be intuitive.

As far as dogs go Pat, the pill example isn't really a fair one, because you know it's not a serious situation. If you came home from work one day completely devastated, however, wouldn't your dogs know?

And as far as the 'mind' being the be all and end all goes, do you all think that when top notch athletes and musicians are performing, they are thinking? I don't. They are in what they call the 'zone.' When a baseball or cricket ball is coming in at 90mph, do you have time to think?

And how about other skills like typing or even sex? When you have your best sexual experiences are you 'thinking' about it at he time? Not the best ones anyway.

No IMO mind is a valuabe tool but not the only one. I, for one, absolutely refuse to put all my eggs in one basket. You all can if you want. I say listen to your inner voice, your heart, and be truthful with yourself.

In meditation, I have too often had that inner 'click,' that powerful sense of rightness and safety, for me to write it off and ignore it. No, I choose to go through life using both my 'hands,' i.e. my logic and my intuition.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 20:49:23 (EDT)
From: PatC;)
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Intuition and the ''Zone''
Message:
Dog, a few months ago we had this discussion here and several people pointed out that ''feeling'' and ''intuition'' were simply nonverbal ways of thinking, of cognisance. I absolutely trust my gut instincts but not blindly. I will react immediately to my sense of danger and get out of it before analyzing it but when it comes to less perilous situations I will examine my gut instincts lest they be based on prejudice or other irrationalities. And I definitely enjoy my feelings, especially those evoked by music and sex. I for one am not saying the mind is better than the heart but that they need to work together. I feel that Rawat demonized the mind because he is/was not a sane or happy man hence his need to booze heavily.

As for the dog/pill example perhaps it was not the best but I do know that I can trick my pooches. I do know what you are trying to say about kids and dogs being able to ''smell'' BS and I don't think you are completely wrong. I just have a knee-jerk reaction to any Maharajism re the mind because it seems so obvious to me that he does not know what he is talking about. Intuition and the ''Zone'' are also parts of the mind/understanding.

The ''heart'' is simply that part of the mind which feels and does not think in words. But I know I am using the word ''mind'' differently than Rawat does. By mind I mean consciousness. He seems to be talking about some crazy thing which he has in him but not all of us are nuts.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 18:56:06 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Time to read some science, Dog?
Message:
Dog,

Why don't you put aside all the spiritual and new age stuff you've read for years and just for once read a couple of current books about the brain and how it functions? Honestly, have you ever?

Here's a link to a list. I've read a couple of these but they all sound good.

Isn't it time?
[ List of books on what science knows about the mind ]

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 18:05:06 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Then how do you explain Santa Claus DD?
Message:
Or the Tooth Fairy or Easter Bunny? My parents told me those beings did exist and used their existence to explain all manner of phenomenon. I believed them and believed in those entities. So I was conned in a manner of speaking wasn't I? Admittedly it was a materially advantageous way to be conned but eventually I matured and realized the phenomenon associated with those beings originated with my parents.

Your Zone and sex examples are interesting but not applicable.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 18:14:23 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Come off it Richard
Message:
Santa claus, tooth fairy and easter bunny exist.

sheesh ....you exes are sooooo cynical .

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:50:01 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Re: Jim, Pat, Dermot and Jerry
Message:
Hi Dog

Well I'd already realised I was being stupid before the others jumped in. I agree children and dogs are sensitive to vibes and all the subtle nuances of intent but it's also obvious that adult deviousness is such that true intent can easily be masked ( even supressed) until a relationship of trust is assured.

Having said that I've no real argument about gut instinct AND logic working hand in hand.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 06:41:57 (EDT)
From: annie
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Re: Been there,I don't think you got the point...
Message:
sooooo spot-on! it's sooooo v-scary how we've all been such suckers!! even more scary watching others close by, in the midst of being suckered. what do you do, what can you say, just to plant the seed of thought to these people, that all is not as it seems!!!
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 03:11:42 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Nothing plotted?
Message:
Nothing plotted or anything. Just ordinary type premies that saw a need and tried to figure out how best to help.

Premies, ordinary premies did not decided what videos people should watch to prepare but maharaji's troop. I know with certaintity because when I was an aspirant contact I received information from Judy Ollman, (from Denver I believe) and talked on the phone with her who explained that mahatmas prepared a list of videos of the preparation process, not regular premies. She was encouraging me to get all those videos to create a video library. Those lists for different stages were posted by JM in his site and are still there. Have you seen those lists? Is all staged, isn't? Is not what it seems. Videos were picked to lure the people in because if they were told right on nobody would stay: Who wants to be a cult member or to adore a guru?.

If new people attending an introductory event would watch a video of the 'advanced stage' of preparation to get K, one of the advanced videos were maharaji talks about the importance of the master even more few would get K. so the manipulation is obvious and hidden agendas exist. Don't you think? Is all about the master and the longing...devotion.

What is obvious is that people are not told from the very begining what REALLY is about: The ultimate goal to experience K is to love and adore maharaji and to accept him as he having extra 'powers': All good feelings are felt by his GRACE. maharaji talks little about what a good teacher who promotes individuality: A good teacher empowers people but maharaji keeps people needy of him. Doesn't he?

Why devotion toward the master is hidden at first? Why people are not informed right away on what 'the process' to receive K is about? Is all deceiving and is no way the hiding can be justified: People are told 'is all about YOU' and then it becomes MAHARAJI IS SO GREAT. Or am I wrong?

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 17:24:38 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: You are RIGHT ;) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 03:50:40 (EDT)
From: BeenThereDoneThat
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: Nothing plotted?
Message:
I apologize. I was duped. This is not what I was told. I don't like very much that the sweetness of trusting premies gets distorted. Slammed is more like it. I think a lot of premies feel the videos are set up sequentionally, that it's just too much information for a new person to process. Getting it slowly is much better for their brains to digest.

I can understand what you're saying and it's very valid. I got reprimanded for telling someone that Maharaji was the perfect master, straight off, no beating around the bush. Oddly, that's all they wanted to hear. They knew there were lots of dead perfect masters and they wanted a live one!
And this person received k in record time. However, she was totally put off by the pre knowledge inquisition. She told them something like she had never once heard on the videos anything like what they were asking or saying she had to do 'Give up all friends...'etc. She saw only kindness and love in the videos and that's why she wanted knowlege. Charanand absolutely agreed with her and she got in. She just does her own thing. I won't tell people anymore cuz of the stuff I read here, until M answers these questions you all have. I can't send people to receive k if I have to make excuses about the person giving it. But I honestly do see really sweet good hearted people trying not to be dishonest in spreading knowledge. I think that's what I like the most about all of you. That heart that wanted k and a perfect master still beats loud and clear. I think you have strength and conviction of accepting no less than the utmost honest truth. For that I am greatful to you all.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 16:44:01 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Thank you
Message:
I feel deceived by maharaji in the sense that he pounded for years that ONLY through him, by his grace I can get in touch with an intimite part of me that some chose to call spirit, heart, whatever and I was already in touch with that part without knowing him!

Having gotten sucked into the cult and that I became a worshiper of him for more than two decades I know well today looking back as an ex-premie (lover) that he is full of bullshit and does what he does to comercialized in something so simple as old yoga techniques because he is materialistic and greedy. I detest his lies.

Yes, I accept your words. Thanks for understanding. I do not lie in anything that I write about my involment with EV. I have given my real name in F5 and I think here. Is the truth. There is manipulation and maharaji still think he has powers over people, that his grace makes it all happen and taht is far from the truth. We people opened to his brainwashing and become cult members and what ever good feeling we get/got doesn't have nothing to do with him. We just learned to program our minds to it, that is all.

Bye.

Silvia - who does have a heart even without mahariachi.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 06:30:19 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: Nice post
Message:
Well it's nice for once, possibly for the first time ever here, to have a premie visit who's pretty human.

But you also display perfectly the good heart/naivete that big boy has been feeding off like some piranha fish all these years.

Do you think it's impossible for anyone who isn't a devotee to experience k?

Have you read the history pages about the whole package and how shri hans nicked it all from elsewhere?

By the way, when I first completely walked away from m, I left because he obviously had no intention of spreading this knowledge through all the lands, I should add that ten years later, I don;t care, just letting you know that a little of my background.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:23:35 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: BTDT you made my point for me
Message:
...or at least one of my intended points. That is when M&K are presented honestly and directly there ARE people willing to enter a master/student relationship as your friend did and mine might have (in my pre-ex days). I'm not judging that relationship pro or con at this point. I'm just saying that it is inherently dishonest to present M&K as otherwise and people have a gut, intuitive and logical reaction to the misrepresentation and walk. Aspirant Emptor!
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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 00:04:00 (EDT)
From: BeenThereDoneThat
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: BTDT you made my point for me
Message:
You have all made really excellent points. I apologize if I make anyone gag. This is all new information for me and actually I appreciate the honesty. I attended the satellite feed today and I listened to a meeting among local premies. I'm very very very tired.
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Date: Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 21:28:56 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: float upstream, relax and turn on your mind :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 15:26:47 (EDT)
From: Jim (reposted from AG)
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Was Bazza 'Rob'?
Message:
Here's something I posted on AG re the question that was raised recently about whether or not Bazza was Rob. Anyone who was posting back when 'Rob' first came along will agree that he created a whole lot of confusion as a premie who fucked with us by claiming that he had actual direction from Maharaji to tell all premies that they shouldn't be posting here. Later, 'Rob' had an apparent breakthrough in which he claimed to see that Maharaji was a fraud. He posted for a while in that mode and then dropped out. My point in all this is just to say that, even IF Bazza was in fact Rob, it doesn't mean that he wasn't sincere as Bazza.

First, I'd become pretty close to Bazza over time. He called me a lot, emailed me and I reciprocated. Plus, I defended him somewhat in the last conflict on the forum with Brian (and Katie [and John]). So when he started posting about meditating again (no biggie) and then enjoying a few videos, I got concerned. I tried to reach him. It wasn't easy.

Eventually, though, I did get an email reply. This was the other day after Wango Tango had said that some recently 'returned' ex had told him that the exes regularly made up new exes to inflate our numbers or something. I had to know if Bazza had said something like that so I emailed him. He replied saying that he didn't know no Wango Tango, had never told anyone anything of the sort and agreed that it was preposterous in any event. Further, he said that he was just not contacting anyone too much, one way or the other, and was enjoying meditating and wanted to go see m to see how that felt. You can imagine my reply.

Then I thought of that post on LG where Gerry accuses Bazza of being Rob. That got me thinking, was it true? Again I emailed Bazza and asked him. Now, here's the kicker. As I posted at the time, I once asked Rob to call me. This was when he was supposedly having a crisis of faith, didn't know what was what ... all that. I aksed him to call me to talk, if he wanted. Confirm his legitimacy, perhaps, if that was possible, in light of the scam he'd pulled earlier (about having 'agya' to tell all the premies to quit posting). The fact is that 'Rob' did call me once. I wasn't home at the time and he left a brief message, something along the lines of:

Hello, Jim. This is Rob. I'll call you again sometime.

But Rob never called back. The thing is, as I thought of it, I seemed to recall that Rob had an English accent in that message and, yes I have to say it, he did sound quite similar, as I remember, to Bazza.

So Bazza replied today. He denied that he was Rob and pointed out that, if he was, why would he have called me as promptly as he did back when we started talking to one another if he'd left that message as Rob. Good point, I must admit. Also, as far as I know, Bazza never lied to me about anything else. I'm now left uncertain. I wish I had that message again but it was a long, long time ago. I could be wrong about all this.

Bazza made the further point that he thought all this Rob stuff was just ex harrassment as we couldn't accept the fact that someone could return to the fold in this day and age, not knowing all that he knows. Sadly, he warned me to not contact him again. (Luckily, he asked me a question in the email and, in my fast and loose interpretation of the law, I deemed that implied consent to answer so I did, basically telling him not to think too hard when he does see m, it'll spoil the show!).

So, two questions:

1) Is Bazza Rob?

and --

2) What if he was?

As for the first, I can't say. I should be the very person who COULD answer that, given the phone message, but I just can't say. It's sadly a real possibility to me although that would mean that someone who never lied to me that I know of is doing so now. I hesitate going there.

But, the more interesting question is the second, I think. Let's assume that Bazza is Rob for a second. What does it mean? Unlike Joey, who, it must be said, has called me and several other exes 'cult operatives', I don't think that Bazza being Rob, even it were true, is evidence of any sort of cult undercover operation. Indeed, I think that's a very far-fetched theory with little to support it.

For one thing, say it were true, wouldn't it be the case that Bazza had very, very nicely positioned himself for all sorts of mischief? You might say that he did indeed do just that but I don't think so. I think that the net effect (pun?) of the whole shakeout was good for the online ex community. I think the changes are all for the better. If Bazza was working for the cult, he could have done a much better job.

Furthermore, don't forget, there was nothing forcing Bazza out at this time. If his goal was to seed us with false information, he never did so. If his goal was to GET whatever ex info he could, he gave up his post long before he had to. And if his goal was to just do this dog-and-pony show where he goes back to the fold as a p.r. trick, that goal would have been much better served a number of ways. Running off in a pout after geting blasted by Brian and Katie only makes him look indecisive and ungrounded in any particualr belief.

No, if Bazza really is Rob all that tells me is that he's been confused, just like he says he's been, since he started posting. Sure, a conspiracy's possible but it's not borne out by the evidence. After all, Brian and Katie had finally given up their hold on EPO. If Bazza's intention was to somehow undermine EPO from within, this was just a starting point. The field was clear, so to speak, for him to really wreak so much more damage than he ever did. Bazza didn't create Glasser. And, to me, it's a good thing that we have Glasser's identity now. And I don't buy the thoery that once Bazza partially outed Glasser he showed all premies how unsafe it was to post on the forum, although I know some think that. No, what he showed was that it was unsafe for a TROLL to spam and flame the forum without consequences. If Bazza really wanted to show how reckless an FA could be and thus discredit the forum he could have really outed some premie who was merely posting cult bullshit. He didn't and so I can't see this as some sort of cult set up.

My point, in short, is that whether Bazza was Rob or not, I actually think he's been sincere about where he's at regarding Maharaji. I'm sorry to see him run back like this but, like Dave said, it's possible. Indeed, I think it's more likely than any conspiracy theory.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:15:26 (EDT)
From: swami suchabanana
Email: None
To: Jim (reposted from AG)
Subject: Bazzin' in his desires,+ Rob-bin mahacukaraji?
Message:
Hey, I found da key (-)!

In brief, I shall now reveal da possibility of Knowledge [big K]:

i.e. tombstone territory marker: here lies Bufu beloved fodder 1950-2025 ; da '-' = life.

Ergo: da hyphen aka '-' is da key of life, da connection, da missing link...

Ok, that'll be $200 for da consultation.

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 15:31:41 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: swami suchabanana
Subject: ?? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 19:20:26 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim (reposted from AG)
Subject: Unlikely
Message:
I think Bazza is as you see. As fellow FAs we had a lot of open communication, and although I am disappointed he passed on some of those emails, I wish him well. If he has created a persona, it is too complete, and flawed, to be fake, IMO. He has a website for his work, www.videobrit.com.

John.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 19:25:23 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: No, John, it's the other way around
Message:
The idea isn't that Bazza was fake but rather that Rob was. I don't think for a minute that Bazza isn't the british video guy in Florida we know him as. But what about Rob? Couldn't Bazza have been him as well?
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 19:37:06 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: No, John, it's the other way around
Message:
Jim,

It's just possible, but why would someone who instigated such an elaborate fraud, then come here and behave openly and sincerely (as I believe Bazza generally did)? So as I said, it's unlikely.

John.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 20:00:14 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Speculative timeline
Message:
1) Rob shows up, pretends to be PAM, reports false 'agya' for premies to quit posting. INSINCERE

2) Rob admits he isn't a PAM, no agya, sorry, confused. Needs to think about things. SINCERE

3) Rob comes back an ex. Posts for a while then drops out. SINCERE

4) Bazza surfaces. Never mentions 'Rob'. Posts for a while, interpersonal conflict and quits. SINCERE ( but with skeleton in closet)

That would be the scenario.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 20:49:26 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Speculative timeline
Message:
Speculative = Possible but unlikely, as I said:-)

john.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 20:18:57 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, the phone call
Message:
by 'Rob'....you can't remeber the exact dialect/accent at all? If you spoke to Bazza a lot , wouldn't it have clicked with you at some point? Also , if Bazza wanted to hide the 'Rob' persona, would he have risked phoning you, knowing you may have a recorded message from 'Rob'.

And why didn't you record 'Robs' voice for posterity? :)

I vaguely remeber Bazza asking about Rob around the time I was quizzing the 'Rob' story. Rog E Drek pointed those of us interested to a part of the archives.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 21:10:03 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Honestly?
Message:
Honestly? -- and I know this only means so much -- they sounded alike. As far as I can recall, they did.

However, what do I really remember of Rob's message? A fairly quiet, casual British accent saying one or two sentences a long time ago. Thing is, Bazza's also got a fairly quiet, casual British accent (I'm not Henry Higgins, am I?).

But your point about why'd he call is the same one he made. Maybe -- just running with the speculation a bit -- because he didn't care all that much anymore. He was Bazza, now an ex, just like Rob had admitted as well. If he got found out, he got found out. Big deal.

I'll tell you this though. My hunch is now that they were in fct one and the same. Doesn't mean I think any less of Bazza. Still wish him well.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:11:18 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Baz, the door is always open...
Message:
Yes I still like Baz and hope the best for him, too. Does Baz feel like I'm harrassing him by starting the two threads that I did? It certainly was not my intention. I won't start any more with his name in them.
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 14:20:23 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: As long as he doesn't HACK !!!!! NT
Message:
zz
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 21:33:26 (EDT)
From: Doubly ironic
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Honestly?
Message:
if he was Rob ....like I said, taunting me about keeping a foot in both camps and really wanting to see Maharaji AND coming down hard on all anons !!

Anyway, it's all conjecture....but my gut instinct tells me nah he wasn't Rob.

Then again :) .... nah ...I suppose it's just fruitless, potentially endless speculation.

Final point ...if he was Rob then he's cleverer than I thought and I thought he was very clever. There, I've said something positive abouyt the chap !

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 21:36:07 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Doubly ironic
Subject: D ironic = Dermot, duhh NT
Message:
zz
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 17:32:56 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim (reposted from AG)
Subject: The Bazza thing.
Message:
Was Bazza 'Rob'? Nah, I don't think so but I could be wrong. I reckon I've got a good 'bullshit' detector and I'd be surprised if he was the notorious 'Rob'. Who knows though? Bazza'd be the only one to know.

My single, less than generous post on AG was more just a jibe because Bazza and I never hit it off from day one.

We had a big bust up ( it's in the archives-if they still exist- ex altarboy v Bazza). When I first came I told the forum that for a short while (and it was a short while) I'd be posting anonymously. I had my valid reasons. Bazza (born again ex of a few weeks… whereas my ex stirring began in 96 and came to a head 98ish) was pontificating to me about posting anonymously and about my sincerity. I told him to fuck off with his bullshit. Anonymous malicious trolls are one thing …..other anons , like la-ex for example are so obviously sincere and genuine. It doesn't take an Einstein to work that out but hey ! Bazza was on a roll, excited about this new ex game he was playing . He even jibed that I still probably wanted to go and see Maharaji..(ironic huh?)

Basically I told him I'd seen his like in EV for fucking years and was sick to death of it. His bragging of knowing premies all round the world and his backstage passes etc etc.His bongo labels . Whatever.. I told him , as far as I was concerned he was playing the 'Bazza promotion' game and nothing else as far as I could see. I also asked him if he had plans of working his way up the f6 greasy pole ( not that I REALLY think such a thing exists) So to cut a long story short I watched him ingratiate himself to you all and thought 'am I the only one who can see the guys motives aren't 100%? ' Now by that I don't mean he had some hidden ,deliberately planned agenda to fuck things up but I seriously wondered if the guy himself was sure where he was coming from. He liked being blunt and insulting quite a lot. He liked to take the piss out of Maharaji . He liked to perform the forum 'service 'of sussing out trolls. But can any of you point me toward a long, heartful , well thought out post of his describing why he'd really left K and M. Maybe they exist, I didn't see them. To me it was all superficial fucking about, with Latvian nights and Fa ing or whatever to look forward to but no deep realisation that he was finished with the cult think.

Now ok, that's my take on it. Steve ( who I respect) has known the guy in real life and a lot longer than any of us. I'll take his word for it that Bazza is honest.I really will. I'd just guess Bazza was a bit confused, that's all.

When Bazza first let drop that he was thinking of returning to the premie fold in a post somewhere, he also said ' and Dermot , what do you think of that ?' Well actually he was referring to a post of mine ' Is the FA really a premie ?'. Bazza thought I was referring to him. I was actually referring to John ( John knew this and also knew I didn't mean it, just letting off steam) Anyway. I wrote a conciliatory and generous reply to Bazza and wished him well. I still do wish him well, even though .admittededly, I've succumbed to the odd jibe here and there. I just think I read the guy better than most of you here, that's all.

In the end none of it matters. We've either left Maharaji or we haven't. Each to our own life.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 16:26:50 (EDT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim (reposted from AG)
Subject: Jesus Jim, has it actually come to this? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 16:27:21 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: What's that mean? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 18:13:52 (EDT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It means - get a little perspective Jim
Message:
It doesn't take much to see that the problem of 'Was Bazza, Rob?' don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you'll understand that.
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 18:24:25 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: No, YOU get a little perspective
Message:
Rob was, at one point, a big issue here. Don't you remember? And Bazza, if you recall, was one of us until just recently. He was even an FA, for god's sake. It's conpletely reasonable to consider this question. Now, if I'd started asking my neighbours or people on the street what they thought, well, I agree, that be good cause to suggest I'm losing 'perspective'. But this is where it all happened, these are the people who put up with Rob, etc. There's nothing wrong about talking about it.
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 23:40:14 (EDT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: No, YOU get a little perspective
Message:
No Jim, there's nothing wrong about talking about it. But haven't you already made your point about M on this site? Don't you think discussing an issue like 'Was Bazza, Rob' is being a little picayune? That was my point.

Sheesh, if anything I thought you'd be angry with the bizarre reference to 'Casablanca.'

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 16:07:21 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Jim (reposted from AG)
Subject: No vast right wing conspiracy!
Message:
Thanks Jim. I read your whole post and it was well thought out. My only point in replying is that I think there is no conspiracy here. Much more damage could have been done if there was. There is some real paranoid ideation being spewed, kinda juvenile and ugly, and I feel sorry for people who look at the world through 'hosed-colored glasses.'

The harassment accusations are way over the top, both here and on Life's Great (Dave, please made CD change the name to 'Anything Toes' eh?). Bunch of wailing whingers. Sheesh, we ought to have crying and fainting rooms on both Forums, just like for the D-line.

If someone interpets certain things as 'harassment,' without a clear and rational idea of what harassment REALLY is, they start to see it everywhere, in their own terms. Maybe some people should stop ignoring their minds, and pay attention to what their minds are doing to themselves and everything they see.

Yeah, hosed-colored glasses. Pity.

Francesca

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 15:48:59 (EDT)
From: Steve Mulley
Email: None
To: Jim (reposted from AG)
Subject: No definitely not
Message:
I can assure you that Bazza never posted before as anyone else and is not playing deceitful games. I know Bazza . Believe me he's straight and honest. I used to be his ashram co ordinator and since then have known him personally.
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 16:34:31 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Steve Mulley
Subject: But did you ever ask him?
Message:
Steve,

Whether or not Bazza was Rob is irrelevant so long as he was sincere about where was at as Bazza. That's how I see it today anyway. I apologize to him if he's lurking for questioning him when he's flatly denied being Rob to me and I never knew him to ever lie to me. But, well, in all the circumstances, to be honest about it, I have to say I've got my doubts.

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 05:37:42 (EDT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: But did you ever ask him?
Message:
Hi Jim,

I base my assumptions on a few things . The main one is that Bazza e mailed me quite a few weeks before he became an ex and expressed his doubts about the efficacy of knowledge. He contacted me to speak privately about it as he'd known me from the ashram days.

Bazza also has in the past told me how he struggles with English , being slightly dyslexic and each post takes a lot of spellchecking and time. He didn't know about any of the other forums like recent exes and AG or LG and I had to tell him about them.

Do you remeber how articulate Rob could be ? Didn't he say he worked in copywriting ? Of course I could be wrong here but my guts tell me not.

Bazza is a very upfront , blunt even slightly abrasive Northern Englishman but I've never known him to be into slippery games.

Steve

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 13:23:50 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: Sorry, that just makes me more suspicious
Message:
IF Bazza was Rob he obviously was a bit of a game player and had to set himself up a bit as a 'new' ex when he wanted to come out as Bazza. But, Steve, have you read any of Bazza's posts? Emails? The guy's fast and clear. I've emailed in real time with Bazza enough to know that he's not sittign there slowly labouring over the keyboard. Frankly, I'm getting to the point now where I'm actually pretty close to being pretty damn sure that Bazza was Rob. Things like telling you about his difficulty posting just strengthens my suspicion.

Look, how about this one? Rob was supposedly a professional writer, somewhere in the American Southeast, who attended various trade shows, conventions and the like for his work. Well, that's possible, I guess. Maybe writers do just that. But Bazza, as we know, is a videographer in the American Southeast (Florida) whose work consists of going to various trade shows, conventions and the like for his work.

Naw, same guy. I'd bet on it now.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 22:40:54 (EDT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: rob vs rob
Message:
ahem- rob said he was a Mensa gemini - and he acted like one. He ran his 2 games very close together and sometimes let them cross over just cause he was clumsy when he was feeling his oats. He also enjoyed playing people and finding clues through their answers.
it wouldnt surprise me if Lonnie Doonegan is him....:)
1 common thread is that he was a 'big guy' and that trait also showed when he would brag about who he knew or what his scope of influence was.
Having said that - I believe that one side of his gemini could be exish and one side could fence. That is ok with me.
Zelda
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 15:18:11 (EDT)
From: Lonnie Donnegan
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Once there was a mountain, then was no mountain,
Message:
then there was.

You had to be there I guess

Curious picture flashed into my brain today,
a pictorial definition of premiedom,

premies look like human beings, pretend they're beings, but actually they are human beings wrapped in cling film.
From a distance everything seems normal, but when you're used to the clear light of day, with fresh air on the skin, they;re more cling film than human, with maybe two tiny holes pricked under their nostrils.
They can't COMPLETELY block out the outside world however much they try.

Just a pictorial thought for the day.

And another, big boy gives repetitive beats a bad name.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 22:53:42 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Lonnie Donnegan
Subject: Very good [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 22:57:25 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Except
Message:
Lonnie Donnegan is famed for 'My Old Man's A Dustman' and it's Donovan who sang, 'First there is a mountain then there is no mountain then there is'.
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 06:36:42 (EDT)
From: Sandy Denny
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: It was just a brit play on name similarities
Message:
donnegan to donovan was a short time but a huge change in culture.
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 22:02:39 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Lonnie Donnegan
Subject: Re: Once there was a
Message:
I will frame it and place it where I put on the celling in my bedroom, so I can thing what a dickhead you are. And that took you a long time Yah?
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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 06:39:59 (EDT)
From: The Incredible String Band
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: About a minute
Message:
but in your head a minute is probably an eternity
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 22:54:33 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: salam
Subject: Poor - must try harder [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 14:17:05 (EDT)
From: it-IS-so
Email: None
To: All
Subject: update
Message:
Pia
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 15:55:54 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: it-IS-so
Subject: Re: Salam, could you put a picture?
Message:
Salam,

I think creating a page as a tribute to Pia is a very touching gesture.

Is it possible to include a picture? May I suggest the picture on her website, it is quite beautiful.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 16:02:16 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: can't do that
Message:
copyright.

But I may find something to include.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 13:06:45 (EDT)
From: TED Farkel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: You might be doing service if...
Message:
Hey Folks,

ole TED Farkel from the TRAC Center jus lettin you know how much you alls posts meant to us down here at TRAC....

I was personally hopin to hear from my dear friend,mentor, and business associate, Mr.eDrek, but I spose he's busy with nailin down the final details on that big contract we got goin with Burger King, ya know....(in case ya don't, we're marketing a 'Holy Family' action collectible set with BK...ya get one free holy family figure with every BK Broiler with fries and coke)...
BTW,if ya get M as yer figure, ya can exchange him for Sat Pal, and vice versa-it's a little deal that me and Mr.eDrek bargained for with BK ta get the Sat Pal followers in on the deal-personally, I think it's an idea whose time has come, and is gonna send sales through the roof!

Also, if ya get mata ji, ya can exchange her for durga ji, and vice versa...can ya beat that?

(See, we're not only increasing our potential for sales, but propagation too...not to mention the fact that maybe this 'Exchange Program' will ease tensions between them two 'dueling satgurus', Sat Pal and his kid bro, Prem Pal....)

Ah, I can't tell ya how many times Mr.eDrek and myself have dreamed about a 'Holy Family Reunion Tour'......maybe we could finally kick some butt with this propagation thing, with all hands on deck, and rowing in the same direction....

Anyway, jus wanted to tell you how much we all appreciated your comments last night...
We read them before the videos were cranked up...it was a full crowd, with Friday night bein ladies night, and free foamies before the videos...Dave Smith was bein hisself, banging on the oil drums and singing 'Teach me Devotion', as only Dave Smith can...(after midnight, Dave even sang a few old Rich Neel songs, and had us ALL swoonin with good ole country boy bliss....not to mention being tanked up on some might fine home brew...)

So far, we think that Mr. or Mrs. 'Doo Doo Ladoo' is runnin first in the 'You might be a premie if' contest...

So tonights contest begins somethin like this...

'You might be doing service if...'

Warmly,
TED Farkel

Remember, first place is an all expenses paid trip to the TRAC Center for one week...
Second place is the all paid week, when Dave Smith's here....

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 18:04:40 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: Re: You might be doing service if...
Message:
You might be doing service if you go to Malaga, Spain two weeks before a festival , are assigned the task of guarding a huge fridge full of food while all around you are loads of hungry, hard-working premies AND you also think it's part of some sweet, inscrutable Divine plan.

I failed a servant, alas....the fridge contents became a free handout site. I blame HOLY NAME, it inspired me to feel ...'what the fuck ...'

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Date: Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 21:42:40 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: You reminded me of the time
Message:
in satsang (Red Lion Sq)when I took some food off the altar (to m) to give to a hungry person.
I raelly got bollocked by holy joes.
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 15:59:35 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: Can I have a lg. Nectar w/my Guru Whopper? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 17:51:17 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: ick! be careful what you ask for
Message:
oh man I think I am gonna looooose my lunch.
(Hi Deborah)
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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 13:11:39 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: Re: You might be doing service if...
Message:
'You might be doing service if...'

You find yourself scraping dried semen off the velvet cushions on Maharaji's runabout and you're enjoying it.

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Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 13:18:59 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: You might be doing service if...
Message:
You are doing anything because someone with wild eyes and a badly fitting suit told you 'Maharaji wants this done immediately!' or 'It's for Him!' or 'Hurry, the Client is coming!'
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