Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Aug 23, 2001 To: Aug 27, 2001 Page: 2 of: 5


btdt -:- FYI -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:12:23 (EDT)
__ suggy -:- Re: FYI -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:00:37 (EDT)
__ __ btdt -:- Re: FYI -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:19:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- ::URL: Border's Bookstore / Big Brother :: -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 16:46:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ btdt -:- Re: ::URL: Border's Bookstore / Big Brother :: -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:47:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: ::URL: Border's Bookstore / Big Brother :: -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 00:10:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ btdt -:- new skill -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 02:22:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: new skill -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 12:39:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ btdt -:- cult worth joining -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 19:50:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ btdt -:- cult worth joining -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 19:50:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Why not just use the link window? -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 20:10:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Peg -:- Thanks Jim I wondered how you did that [nt] -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 04:59:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ btdt -:- Re: Why not just use the link window? -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 22:02:54 (EDT)

AJW -:- Cult Against Criticism. -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:18:38 (EDT)
__ salam -:- Re: Cult Against Criticism. -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 01:32:14 (EDT)
__ Brian Smith -:- Great Acronym ! -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:57:11 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- ::d dirty little urug cult secrets:: :d -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:07:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- By the way, they say that they're four -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:20:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- But they are all one with the master -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:32:49 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- Re: Cult Against Criticism. -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:56:05 (EDT)
__ Joey -:- ***Brilliant Post ! !**** -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:01:40 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- Exactly... -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 12:43:36 (EDT)
__ __ PrivateCommunication -:- Precisely!! -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:17:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Cult Against Criticism -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:34:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) the Fat Fag -:- Cult Against Criticism Policy -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:58:33 (EDT)

Mr. Mind -:- K-Lite/the Maharaji/TV -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 10:29:43 (EDT)

John Macgregor -:- announcement of new status (defector) -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 10:26:12 (EDT)
__ Bin Liner -:- As an Indian to a Chief... -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:07:28 (EDT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- Re: As an Indian to a Chief... -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:18:20 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- A bit of an apology -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:25:35 (EDT)
__ __ btdt -:- Re: A bit of an apology -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 19:01:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Even still -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 20:14:13 (EDT)
__ __ gerry -:- You were almost nice, Jim -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:09:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Truth is, I never did stop tithing -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:14:14 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- LAURIE, you rock! [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:33:37 (EDT)
__ And On Anand Ji (a0aji) -:- Re: announcement of new status (defector) -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:31:41 (EDT)
__ __ Mel Bourne -:- Re: announcement of new status (defector) -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 06:51:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- :: thanks, Mel :: [nt] -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 12:37:01 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Give me a break, Chris -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:56:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: Give me a break, Chris -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 23:52:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Likelihood, Chris, likelihood -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 00:08:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: Likelihood, Chris, likelihood -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 00:46:26 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Rabies on the net. -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:07:13 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- AJW: Get those shots! [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:55:28 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Welcome John -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:47:49 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Hi, John, you are being very unfair -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:47:00 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- What Love Fest? -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:56:20 (EDT)
__ __ btdt -:- Re: Hi, John, you are being very unfair -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:54:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- :: you forgot to hate :: [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:43:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Love fest, btdt -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:15:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- That explains it. -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:10:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) the Fat Fag -:- Where were you when I needed you -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:16:51 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Hm, maybe you're just a cut above the rest of us -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:18:03 (EDT)
__ Gregg -:- the Defective Master -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:41:33 (EDT)
__ RichMandrake -:- Thank You,John -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:25:33 (EDT)
__ salam -:- Re: announcement of new status (defector) -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:10:34 (EDT)

Rick -:- Jim-About LG -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 09:47:09 (EDT)

Rick -:- For Jim-A Post From LG (enjoy) -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 09:34:15 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Thanks, Rick -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:01:58 (EDT)
__ __ Rick -:- Re: Thanks, Rick -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 20:40:19 (EDT)

Pat:C) -:- Charles Glasser does the decent thing -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 04:53:39 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- :: not a cult since 1968, and growing :: -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 16:03:51 (EDT)
__ little a0aji -:- :: who's that fat guy? :: -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:52:19 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Re: :: who's that fat guy? :: -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:57:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: :: who's that fat guy? :: -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 23:33:48 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- My reply to Glasser -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:31:06 (EDT)
__ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- 'a very cool and witty guy... -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:29:20 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Then Glasser's reply to me (and my return) -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:56:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Jim, you have been harrassed! -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 20:59:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Actually, Joe, I think YOU're harrassing me! -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 21:17:52 (EDT)
__ __ salam -:- Jesus Jim -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:43:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- This is what I do when I'm sick -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:51:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ salam -:- Re: This is what I do when I'm sick -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 19:46:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: This is what I do when I'm sick -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 20:07:46 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Thanks for the reality check -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:13:02 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: Jim's reply to Glasser -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:02:03 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- Glass avoids his own responsbility -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 12:25:49 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Yes, Can you say AMEN? -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:17:45 (EDT)
__ __ Joey -:- Excellent post, Joe! Needed to be said... -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:57:07 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Here's something I really hate... -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:34:37 (EDT)
__ __ Joe -:- I emailed the above to Charles Glasser, Jr. nt -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:03:29 (EDT)
__ RichMandrake -:- THE TRUTH ABOUT MAHARAJI -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:43:00 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- :: :q You can say that again :q :: [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 16:16:09 (EDT)
__ RichMandrake -:- THE TRUTH ABOUT MAHARAJI -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:42:02 (EDT)
__ salam -:- Nice move Charles -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 09:38:56 (EDT)
__ Silvia -:- I can't get up -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 08:50:11 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- :: Glasser's Tract on Boris' Yellin' :: -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 16:08:57 (EDT)
__ peg -:- Oh now I see! -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 06:03:47 (EDT)

btdt -:- testing -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 03:50:07 (EDT)
__ [Blank] -:- Re: testing testing -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 09:52:45 (EDT)
__ __ btdt -:- Re: testing testing -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:50:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ Testing Testing -:- Re: testing testing -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:19:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: testing testing -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 23:23:01 (EDT)

RichMandrake -:- Apostate:One who has Abandoned what he once... -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:51:27 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- :: The Apostate's Creed :: -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 23:20:45 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- :: I no longer do :: -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 23:08:26 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- HEY - Can we call ourselves APOSTATES? -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:30:30 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- I nominate the above as **BEST** -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 12:47:17 (EDT)
__ Brian Smith -:- Suitable for Framing -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 12:19:05 (EDT)
__ Peg -:- yes I also am an apostate -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 05:59:40 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Re: yes I also am an apostate -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:45:29 (EDT)
__ __ btdt -:- Re: yes I also am an apostate -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:02:34 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- You're so calm, Rich -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 04:01:03 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- :: people who listened to us :: -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 23:14:06 (EDT)
__ Apostate Silvia -:- One who has Abandoned LORDY -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 02:01:40 (EDT)

Aila -:- To the despicable Prem Pal Sing Rawat -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 23:12:46 (EDT)
__ JohnT -:- Yes! -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 12:59:32 (EDT)
__ Bob -:- Re: To the despicable Prem Pal Sing Rawat -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 08:06:02 (EDT)
__ Selene -:- glycholic acid helps -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 00:46:42 (EDT)

Chris Hafey -:- I started this. What was I thinking?????? -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 23:05:17 (EDT)
__ bill burke-Hey Joe, -:- Dr Grape is david sommersong, premie [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:23:31 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Yup.... -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:12:03 (EDT)

Bill Burke -:- Mili, this is quite a low point for you. -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:10:47 (EDT)

btdt -:- here's another -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:04:30 (EDT)

BTDT -:- Too close for comfort -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:31:18 (EDT)
__ btdt -:- Re: Too close for comfort -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 12:15:11 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- :: please repost::Re: Too close for comfort -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:39:34 (EDT)
__ __ btdt -:- Re: :: please repost::Too close for comfort -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 03:52:08 (EDT)
__ sala -:- Don't stay here then. -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:37:01 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Wake up on the wrong side of the bed? -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:25:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ btdt -:- Re: Wake up on the wrong side of the bed? -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 03:55:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Oh, that what it is. -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 00:00:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Is a hangup worse than a hangover? [nt] -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:00:01 (EDT)

Salam -:- Sleep Walkers -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:20:08 (EDT)
__ such -:- Re: Sleep Walkers - git it straight! -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:44:38 (EDT)

Pauline Premie -:- Can you help me out?? -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:02:15 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- ***DON'T CALL THAT NUMBER!!!*** -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:33:46 (EDT)
Roger eDrek -:- I still want you to be in my movie, Pauline -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 00:56:36 (EDT)
__ SC -:- Hey Rog -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:38:38 (EDT)
__ __ Selene -:- thank you sc -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 02:03:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Selene, I didn't leave out anything... -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 22:09:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- no biggie, I didn't check -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 18:32:04 (EDT)
__ Thelma the Church Lady -:- Pauline call me. You can crash on my floor. -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:31:12 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Pauline, no one should be homeless... -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:50:52 (EDT)
__ sushi -:- here Pauline -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:37:44 (EDT)
__ salam -:- look what you made me do. -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:26:18 (EDT)


Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:12:23 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: All
Subject: FYI
Message:
Here's a site filled with useful info

http://www.piratehaven.org/~atman/factnet/exitres.txt

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:00:37 (EDT)
From: suggy
Email: suggy@indigestion_box.com
To: btdt
Subject: Re: FYI
Message:
Here's a site filled with useful info

http://www.piratehaven.org/~atman/factnet/exitres.txt


---

Suggestion Box:

Please try to keep the number of new threads down; add to another
one instead. Also: at least 100 words on a given URL may make it
worth following; otherwise people may as well trust to serendipity
rather than such terse recommendation.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:19:19 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: suggy
Subject: Re: FYI
Message:
Okay. Never been on one of these forum til I arrived here so still learning how to navigate around. Heck, I'm starting to learn how to navigate around life again. Thanks for the suggestion, and especially for the patience with a newcomer.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 16:46:48 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: btdt
Subject: ::URL: Border's Bookstore / Big Brother ::
Message:
Okay. Never been on one of these forum til I arrived here so still learning how to navigate around. Heck, I'm starting to learn how to navigate around life again. Thanks for the suggestion, and especially for the patience with a newcomer.


---

This is how I do it, BTDT (see below). -a0aji


---

http://www.sundayherald.com/18007


---

---
--excerpt
---

---
--
High-tech surveillance ... the kind used to catch
terrorists will be spyingon shoppers
By Jenifer Johnston

IT'S supposed to be the sedate home of book lovers, coffee drinkers and
the chattering classes, but Borders, the high street bookseller, has been
attacked by human rights organisations for using high-tech surveillance
equipment to spy on their customers.

The company is to become the first retailer in the world to introduce a
controversial security scheme, normally used to trap football hooligans,
paedophiles and terrorists, to photograph customers as they enter stores.

SmartFace -- known as FaceIt in the USA -- keeps a database of
'unique digital face-maps' that will check customers' pictures against
those of known shoplifters.


---

---
--end excerpt
---

---
--

a0aji
[ Border's Bookstore Is Watching / Sunday Herald ]

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:47:57 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Re: ::URL: Border's Bookstore / Big Brother ::
Message:
Oh my gosh, I'd love to be able to do that! Now, no laughing....I just learned to cut-n-paste today.....
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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 00:10:53 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: btdt
Subject: Re: ::URL: Border's Bookstore / Big Brother ::
Message:
Oh my gosh, I'd love to be able to do that! Now, no laughing....I just learned to cut-n-paste today.....


---

I can see where that'd be a hindrance.

Well, my sister is older than me, and as far as I know, she checks
her e-mail maybe twice a month. So different people have different
priorities about this stuff.

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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 02:22:35 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: new skill
Message:
I figured out how to use that url link thing! See how inspiring you guys are!!!!
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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 12:39:48 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: btdt
Subject: Re: new skill
Message:
I figured out how to use that url link thing! See how inspiring you guys are!!!!


---

Good -- so I won't have to make any more citizen's arrests on you!

Just kidding. Good job.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 19:50:52 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: cult worth joining
Message:
http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Island/3012/
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 19:50:47 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: cult worth joining
Message:
http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Island/3012/
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 20:10:06 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Why not just use the link window?
Message:
Btdt,

Why not just use the link window for all these links? Just cut and paste the URL into the 'Link URL' window, give it a name in the 'Link Name' window, and there you are. Or there we all are, I should say, if we go there.

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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 04:59:28 (EDT)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks Jim I wondered how you did that [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 22:02:54 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Why not just use the link window?
Message:
I'll give it a try. Thanks.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:18:38 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Cult Against Criticism.
Message:
Hi,

It seems if you go for a leak nowadays, there’s a new forum you get back.

The cult is really stooping to a new low with the Cult Against Criticism website its members have published. As usual with the spiritually blind, they have shot themselves in the foot.

First, if Captain Rawat asked his devotees to remove the site does anyone think it would be there any longer than it takes an arti-tray to burst into flames?

I’m personally surprised that the cult have resorted to such nasty, abusive, intimidating tactics to try and silence its critics. This type of behaviour invariably rebounds on the perpetrators and reflects badly on anyone associated with the group. People also remember this type of thing for a long time.

Other cults have tried to use similar pressure on member who have left the group and openly criticised it. The result is that the group becomes more isolated, its members begin to feel persecuted and the fanatics are given the wheel, and the groups image begins to change from “bunch of harmless bozos” to “bunch of nasty people”. I wonder what the cults current Press Officer thinks of the bizarre new website.

The Cult Against Criticism website is a pebble in their shoe. It will haunt them long after initial interest has evaporated. It is a fine, concrete example, of their short-sighted, introverted idiocy. Whenever anyone mentions “hate sights” and the Captain in the same breath, all you need to do is provide a link.

Just as the Jagdeo disgrace has dogged the cult for years, their anti-crticism site will follow them round long after Salam, the evil, drug taking, camel molesting, moustache flaunting, Middle-Eastern terrorist, has become a figure of Australian mythology.

They really are a sad bunch. Do they really think they can intimidate people who have left the cult into witholding criticism. This behaviour reeks of the worst type of totalitarian bullying. The mindless jerks who perpetrate it are both spiritually and mentally bankrupt. This much is plain for all to see.

I blame the teacher.

Anth Ginn, drug taking, soft-toy screwing, criminal mastermind, preying on children, old ladies, puppies and kittens. Plotting to install himself as King of England, and replace Parliament with his divine rule.

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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 01:32:14 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Cult Against Criticism.
Message:
boy your in trouble with cacas. They got every bloody little remard that you add to you name.

Bunch of morons. They forgot to say that you being the loser that you are, tought the guru's kids.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:57:11 (EDT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Great Acronym !
Message:
'Cult Against Criticism' this acronym really says it all, and illustrates yet another example of how the tables will turn on the flimsy clandestine operation CAC is running. Their well thought out plans probably never included a acronym interpretation that would serve ex-cult members purposes equally as well as their's.

CAC persecution tactics will backfire, blow up in their face and do far more damage to the Cult and Maharaji in the long run than to the targeted ex-premies of the moment.

If I were not already a ex; say, perhaps one of the numerous interested browsers lurking here, the 'Gestapo' tactics of CAC would provide the necessary impetous to do so, I wonder... is that why we are seeing so many new names on the board announcing their exits?

Good work

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:07:24 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: Brian Smith
Subject: ::d dirty little urug cult secrets:: :d
Message:
Good points (both you and Anth).

Don't forget that this person (or pair or trio of persons, but
not much more than that) have to operate in the dark; here on
this forum we do not have to operate that way -- we can speak
openly.

I think that's going to make all the difference. Who do they
have to turn to, for larger support? They can't very well
announce a request for volunteers to harass ex-premies in
the satsang hall.

DLM (EV) *always* had to operate secretively. That's the
only way they could, because what they do is not something
the public will tolerate, if done openly.

OTOH what we do here is out in the open -- anyone can see
and judge for themselves. Many of us provide answerable
e-mail contacts for our person; a few have gone much
further to identify ourselves to the public.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:20:33 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: By the way, they say that they're four
Message:
CAC says that it's four people.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:32:49 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: But they are all one with the master
Message:
I've given up trying to tell who wango tango and other anonymice are so I just think of them as the Borg (we will not be opposed) collective mind.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:56:05 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Cult Against Criticism.
Message:
Note:

The CAC hit list defaults to a United States perspective. Note that
all other cities are listed by country, but the ones from the States
are listed with no country named (so the default country is the USA).

That makes me think the author subconsciously considers the default
place to 'be' the US, which in turn makes me thinks he lives there.

Apologies to all men everywhere, that I assume this perp to be male.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:01:40 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: ***Brilliant Post ! !****
Message:
and the way you express your conclusion, IMO, says it all!

They really are a sad bunch. Do they really think they can intimidate people who have left the cult into witholding criticism. This behaviour reeks of the worst type of totalitarian bullying. The mindless jerks who perpetrate it are both spiritually and mentally bankrupt. This much is plain for all to see.

I blame the teacher.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 12:43:36 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Exactly...
Message:
You are absolutely right:

If Maharaji wanted the CAC site gone, all he would have to do is say so publicly and it would be gone, immediately.

As long as Maharaji fails to do this, he is complicit in that site's existence and all it does. Which, in turn, just gives people who don't like him yet another thing to complain about and draws more negative publiclity to him.

Perhaps Maharaji is so isolated and so out of touch with reality and how normal people operate and live and he just doesn't care.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:17:15 (EDT)
From: PrivateCommunication
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Precisely!!
Message:
Actually Maharaji could Very Easily send an Email To CAC and allow them to Verify that it was indeed him and tell them to Quit!! that way no publicity would be drawn to him and the Website would be GONE in a Second
It Still there isnt it?? what does that tell you?.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:34:58 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: PrivateCommunication
Subject: Cult Against Criticism
Message:
Capt. Rawat is either laughing at the CAC socalled joke site or he is too busy overseeing his new 2.5 million dollar security guardhouse in Malibu to care.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:58:33 (EDT)
From: Pat:C) the Fat Fag
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Cult Against Criticism Policy
Message:
My corrections to their poorly written policy are in parentheses.

Shame on You: Our Policy

Although freedom of speech is a constitutional right that we defend, stalking, harassment and threats (criticizing Maharaji) are crimes (freaking out the cult.) This site strives to expose those who seek, by abusing digital technology and internet, to harass or threaten others (criticize money-grubbing gurus.) Equally, we protect the identities and reputations of the victims of cyberstalking (by using xxxx instead of Maharaji.)

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 10:29:43 (EDT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: All
Subject: K-Lite/the Maharaji/TV
Message:
Ok, so you've recently been initiated into the super secret Rawat cult under the guise of receiving the Knowledge.

Now, you're ready to go to your first cult members only meeting.

But, what will be different? You will discover that you just haven't joined a meditation club. You must deeply care about the lil' fat man doing the talking.

It's a nightmare and as your running for the exit(Beware, they might not let you out, Seriously!), all you can hear is the lil' fat man screaming in the voice of a Hindu Gomer Pyle-SURPRISE, SURPRISE!

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 10:26:12 (EDT)
From: John Macgregor
Email: johnmac@turboweb.net.au
To: All
Subject: announcement of new status (defector)
Message:
I was one of the founders of DLM/EV in Australia - having set up DLM South Australia in early ‘73, then established DLM’s national legal structure (since inherited by EV) in ‘75-76.

Through the 1990s I ran aspects of the big Amaroo events - e.g. Sales, the electronic funds systems, purchasing, et al.

In the late 1990s I moved to Ipswich, and held management positions at Amaroo.

I left EV, Knowledge and Maharaji a year ago. But I still get approached by people asking me when the next video is on, to come and do service, etc. So I guess the grapevine doesn’t work like it used to.

That’s why I’m doing this post. I’m not a huge fan of this site - it gets pretty intemperate and rabid - and I presently don't intend to post here again. But I can’t think of a better place for getting the word out.

My inner experience is better since leaving Knowledge. I’m happier, and more constant. However I also spent many happy times “inside”, and do not regret those 28 years.

Many of my premie friends have left or are leaving, tho not all have “declared” publicly yet. Others seem to be staying on. I have great respect for the defectors - defecting is no easy task.

I also respect the stayers: they’re pursuing what they see to be the most important thing in life. Not a lot of people elevate their sights above mortgage and paypacket. The World of Knowledge was nothing if not a very good try at something better - if not by all the chiefs, then certainly by the Indians.

That said, I’d be happy to hear from either camp.

John Macgregor

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:07:28 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: John Macgregor
Subject: As an Indian to a Chief...
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:18:20 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Re: As an Indian to a Chief...
Message:
Sorry about the blank post : pressed enter by mistake

I really do feel that as a 'chief ' you have a moral responsibility to explain a bit more about your involvement in all this.

I got out too after 28 yrs but only because of the info, previously impossible to find , which was & is only available on the various ex-premie websites.

Don't you have something to contribute in this regard?

All the best: Pat Dorrity

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:25:35 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: John Macgregor
Subject: A bit of an apology
Message:
John,

My girlfriend thinks I was too harsh on you. Okay?

:)

No, seriously, maybe I was a little harsh. It's entirely possible that you extricated yourself from Maharaji's clutches wihtout any assistance whatsoever from EPO or any of the online ex's. In which case, sure, why not say you're 'not a big fan of this site'? It's like Argument Central here and is no way as clean and simple as, say, Appreciation. So, again, if you got out of the cult on your own without any help from EPO and its contents -- all a direct result of and inextricably tied to the forum(s) -- my apologies.

In that case, I think it's also fair for you to not bother contributing anything to this site or any other ex site. After all, you didn't need any help to get out, why should anyone else? Indeed, if none of this assisted you at all, it must all seem rather superfluous, all these Journey entries, etc. Perhaps all a person has to do is wait, say, 28 years or some like period, and the shackles simply fall off.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 19:01:37 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: A bit of an apology
Message:
Jim,
I needed this site, however a good friend I introduced to knowledge, didn't, much to my absolute amazement. Just yesterday we were having a chat about all this. She noticed M changing drastically over the past two years. This last batch of Amaroo tapes cinched it for her; too incoherant. She takes the approach of getting what she needed at the time and that's the end of the story for her. Actually, she was trying to console me! Afraid for me because I'd put in so many years of trust.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 20:14:13 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Even still
Message:
Even if your friend wiggled out on her own judgement, that judgement couldn't have been all that clear seeing as she was still in the cult at least an hour before she left.

Many of us left on our own, long before we knew any of the stuff that's come to light or benefitted from any of the experiences and understandings of other former premies. I myself left years ago, for instance. In at 19 in '73, out at 28 eight years later. Nonetheless, much of what I've learned from other exes helped me understand what had happened and what I'd left behind immeasurably.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:09:39 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You were almost nice, Jim
Message:
Don't let the woman get to you. They soften you up, make you weak, wear you down. First, a few kind words slip out. Then, your listening to The Lord of the Universe once, maybe twice a day and back goes the tongue. So what, you're on the word a little bit at work, your colleague don't seem to notice and they're making remarks about how relaxed you've become lately.

Then, what the heck, you slip under the sheet and do a little practising. Sure, you're a little rusty but after a while, the nectar having softened you up, you're so-hunging as good as ever. Now you start thinking about giving back a little for the graditude you feel welling up in your heart so you purchase a video, consider a smart card. After all, there just might be an 'event' for you somewhere down this dusky road...

Buck up, man, buck up !!!

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:14:14 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Truth is, I never did stop tithing
Message:
I'm still giving 10 percent, Ger. Started back in the AMP days (Active Membership Program) and never did actually stop. That's one of the reasons I get so worked up about this. Where the hell is my money going, I keep asking. No one's got a straight answer for me. I'll tell you one thing -- and this is for the EV monitors -- if I don't get some answers fast, I'm cutting the cult right off. That's it, eh? Enough's enough. Sure, I'll give them a month's notice but that's it. No fucking around.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:33:37 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: LAURIE, you rock! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:31:41 (EDT)
From: And On Anand Ji (a0aji)
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: John Macgregor
Subject: Re: announcement of new status (defector)
Message:

I was one of the founders of DLM/EV in Australia - having set up DLM South Australia in early ?73, then established DLM?s national legal structure (since inherited by EV) in ?75-76.

Through the 1990s I ran aspects of the big Amaroo events - e.g. Sales, the electronic funds systems, purchasing, et al.

In the late 1990s I moved to Ipswich, and held management positions at Amaroo.

I left EV, Knowledge and Maharaji a year ago. But I still get approached by people asking me when the next video is on, to come and do service, etc. So I guess the grapevine doesn?t work like it used to.

That?s why I?m doing this post. I?m not a huge fan of this site - it gets pretty intemperate and rabid - and I presently don't intend to post here again. But I can?t think of a better place for getting the word out.

My inner experience is better since leaving Knowledge. I?m happier, and more constant. However I also spent many happy times ?inside?, and do not regret those 28 years.

Many of my premie friends have left or are leaving, tho not all have ?declared? publicly yet. Others seem to be staying on. I have great respect for the defectors - defecting is no easy task.

I also respect the stayers: they?re pursuing what they see to be the most important thing in life. Not a lot of people elevate their sights above mortgage and paypacket. The World of Knowledge was nothing if not a very good try at something better - if not by all the chiefs, then certainly by the Indians.

That said, I?d be happy to hear from either camp.

John Macgregor


---

Hi John.

I'm terrible .. the thought crossed my mind (yes, mind) that your
post could be the work of a naughty prankster who wanted to cause
the real John Macgregor (whom I know absolutely nothing about) some
mischief! Wouldn't that be fun -- make a cult guy blush.

So I would just say that (and I assume you are JM as you stated) you
may wish to add some kind of verification in a way your intended
audience will be able to confirm. I don't know how this is done!

It was interesting to hear from you; I do understand about the
position you held in DLM, then EV. I was in the cult from 1976,
on (I was only sixteen when indoctrinated). I'd always wanted to
go to Amaroo; in fact, in the early and mid 1990's, I planned to
leave the USA and move to Australia (somehwhere) so I could be
closer to the Amaroo events. I held that dream for several years,
but did not act on it.

Well, anyway .. I don't mean to draw you out in conversation here;
I respect the limits you've set with us, and admire them, actually.
One can feel a bit sullied, posting here. I just feel it necessary
to work the process, and apologize in advance that it is a mud-
wrestling contest with unusual stakes.

--
Christopher Hafey, Torrington CT USA (chris@hafey.com)

... Which is worse: ignorance, or apathy? Who knows? Who cares?
http://www.river.org/~chris

Christopher Hafey (chris@river.org)
16 Field Street
Torrington, CT 06790-4934

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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 06:51:48 (EDT)
From: Mel Bourne
Email: None
To: And On Anand Ji (a0aji)
Subject: Re: announcement of new status (defector)
Message:
Hi aOaji

I'll vouch for John; everything he says about setting up DLM/EV and his time in Adelaide certainly rings true of the John MacGregor I used to know. I haven't caught up with him in recent years though.

Mel

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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 12:37:01 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: :: thanks, Mel :: [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:56:08 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: And On Anand Ji (a0aji)
Subject: Give me a break, Chris
Message:
Well, anyway .. I don't mean to draw you out in conversation here;
I respect the limits you've set with us, and admire them, actually.

Unless this guy just miraculously woke up one day and realized that Maharaji's been suckering him for the last 28 years, he likely owes a debt to this on-line community. Well if that's the case he sure has a funny way of showing it.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 23:52:55 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Give me a break, Chris
Message:

---

---
--quote
---

---
--

Well, anyway .. I don't mean to draw you out in conversation here;
I respect the limits you've set with us, and admire them, actually.

Unless this guy just miraculously woke up one day and realized that Maharaji's been suckering him for the last 28 years, he likely owes a debt to this on-line community. Well if that's the case he sure has a funny way of showing it.

---

---
-- end quote
---

---
--


---

I don't see it that way, Jim. For one thing, there was Sophia Collier's Book (Soul Rush). Maybe that did it for him. By your logic, ex-premie.org could not have popped into existence, because who would be their ex-premie.org, to teach them to leave the cult?


---

---
--
Revision 2: I see others have made a similar argument, above.

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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 00:08:24 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Likelihood, Chris, likelihood
Message:
You're absolutely right. Collier's 1974 book (excerpted on EPO, by the way) might well have been the last straw for John. That's why I apologized. I assumed that he'd somehow benefitted from the information gathered and disseminated here, the analysis and testimony, even the sobering experience of watching Maharaji and his cult lie like motherfuckers about his past on websites that might not even exist if the exe's hadn't established a net presence and thus forced Maharaji to do a 180 on his initial anti-internet position.

But, as we know, that was hasty. Maybe John never read or knew about any of this activity but instead thumbed through an old copy of 'Soul Rush' in a used bookstore and saw what's what. In that case, he must have stumbled upon the online exes by coincidence after the fact.

Chances?

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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 00:46:26 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Likelihood, Chris, likelihood
Message:
Chances?


---

I don't have much else to say on this thread, Jim. I think it
is recursive at this point; I stated there are other venues
possible and probable, too. Whoever got EPO up in the first
place, now that was a quantum leap. Everything else is the
difference between the inventor and the factory churning out
products based on the invention; we're just the production
line here.

Someone much bolder had the original idea.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:07:13 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: John Macgregor
Subject: Rabies on the net.
Message:
Hi John,

Welcome to the cyber-nuthouse. I don't know if you've joined in any online forums before, but each forum has its own rules, style etc. If you read much here, you'll see that traditionally there is little censorship. Whoever runs the forum at any particular moment does it in the spirit of 'Free Expression.' This means that all sorts of nutty posts and crazy rows appear from time to time.

The thing is, you can't have it both ways. If the forum is open, then it's going to reflect the premie and ex-premie population, warts and all. It's not always nice and pleasant, but at least there's always a healthy, open atmosphere of debate and discussion.

Congratulations for being so open about leaving the cult. Lots of your comments reminded me of my attitude when I first got out. It's lovely to feel your real personality returning after all those years.

Take it easy,

Anth the rabid.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:55:28 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: AJW: Get those shots! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:47:49 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: John Macgregor
Subject: Welcome John
Message:
Welcome and thanks for posting. It appears your motives are both to set the record straight for community premies who still hold you in an organizational context plus tell us a bit about your journey. Every new story adds dimension to a rather guarded world that M has arranged. I agree to a degree about the rabidity - shall we call it passionate dissent?. But, regardless of your critique of the forum your words reach many questioning eyes and are therefore valuable. Don't underestimate that impact. Additionally, as a former founder of DLM, like it or not, your words carry more weight in the view of many of your former constituents. And as others have noted, your view from within DLM / EV and proximity to M are of particular interest to most of us.

All the best on your journey,
Richard

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:47:00 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: John Macgregor
Subject: Hi, John, you are being very unfair
Message:
How can you make this announcement and then not stick around to let us get to know you? I'm dying of curiosity. Sure this place can be intemperate and rabid sometimes but have you ever seen it when we are having a discussion that is light years in intelligence and humor beyond anything else you'll find on the net? And you should have been here for the love-fest we had earlier this year. God, it was better than darshan. Whatever you do, I wish you the best.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:56:20 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: What Love Fest?
Message:
How can you make this announcement and then not stick around to let us get to know you? I'm dying of curiosity. Sure this place can be intemperate and rabid sometimes but have you ever seen it when we are having a discussion that is light years in intelligence and humor beyond anything else you'll find on the net? And you should have been here for the love-fest we had earlier this year. God, it was better than darshan. Whatever you do, I wish you the best.


---

Do you mean that weekend when we all brought our favorite soft toy?

Anth the wannabeeplushy.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:54:47 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Hi, John, you are being very unfair
Message:
love fest? better than darshan?

Any chance of that happening again? Sounds lovely!

Oh, but wait, this is a hate site. How dare you evil people!

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:43:58 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: btdt
Subject: :: you forgot to hate :: [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:15:03 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Love fest, btdt
Message:
Maybe it was in March or April of this year when everyone decided to come out under their own names and we published our pics and there was just a lot of trust and openess around - more than anything you will find in the uptight cult.

And then in June 24 of us got together for dinner and a party in San Francisco. It was the best satsang I had had since living with the Indians in South Africa 20 years ago.

CACA kind of shit on our party but the forum is often the friendliest, warmest palce to be.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:10:29 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: That explains it.
Message:
Hi Pat,

That explains why only me, my teddy bear and a sleeping tramp showed up. Ah well, at least I had Teddy to keep me company.

Anth the furry nylon fairy tale character.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:16:51 (EDT)
From: Pat:C) the Fat Fag
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Where were you when I needed you
Message:
I really needed a teddy when CACA poopoo-ed on me. Am indebted to you for ''Cult Against Criticism.'' I told Jim, if they take it down, I'll put it back up as it really is the second best expose of the Captain after EPO.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:18:03 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: John Macgregor
Subject: Hm, maybe you're just a cut above the rest of us
Message:
It's too bad we didn't have some real quality people here, John. I hear ya'. Look, all I can say is that you've really done us all a great favour by deigning to post this one and only time. What can I say? You took a risk, lowered yourself into this intemperate and rabid jungle, and for that the rest of us have sooooooooo much to thank you for.

Meanwhile, I take it that the nasty, unpleasant forum and the associated information on EPO was never of any assistance to you. You just happened to leave Maharaji a year ago for no apparent reason. Yeah, right!

This forum's uncivil and unpleasant because of premie involvement, period. If it were password protected, for example, or limited to ex's, there'd be arguments occasionally, maybe even robust ones, but the interaction would always be within rasonable bounds. However, if that were the case you might never have looked in and benefitted from all this 'rabidity'. So don't look down your noses at us, John. Unless you just happened to see through Maharaji independent of all that we've said or done, you should be saying thanks instead. What's the problem, don't they even teach you humility in that cult of yours? No? Well how about a little Appreciation or Gratitude? :)

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:41:33 (EDT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: John Macgregor
Subject: the Defective Master
Message:
Thanks for the note. Yes, this site can occasionally seem 'rabid and intemperate.' Anger is an understandable effect of being bamboozled by a boozer posing as a meditation master.

But there are also some good discussions here, especially, to my mind, concerning the ongoing involvement with spiritual growth, post-Maharaji.

Not much of that recently due to the concern over that nasty premie website attempting to portray us exes as criminal perverts.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:25:33 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: John Macgregor
Subject: Thank You,John
Message:
Thank you for your courage and directness.

I agree with you that this forum is often, as you say, too 'intemperate and rabid'. I find it counterproductive in our effort to deprogram ourselves. Yet the testimony of people such as yourself who were in formerly 'high' positions is especially valuable to those of us still grappling with it all.
John, in your post you really didnt say why you had left. Could you Elaborate?...As a founder of DLM in Australia...were you around Maharaji much?..what were your experiences with him?...with knowledge?...What changed that caused you to leave? How are things different now?

Hearing of your experiences is valuable to me..and Im sure alot of us. Even though this forum has too much gratuitous anger and venom expressed...it does do a LOT of Good. The More People like you Post here, who dont have an 'Axe to Grind' but a Story to tell...The More those of Us who,like you ,spent decades sincerely following M..will have the information and the support we need to make an informed decision.

Thank you again, John. I look forward to hearing more from you....Hope things are going well Down Under.....RichMandrake....In the States...

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:10:34 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: John Macgregor
Subject: Re: announcement of new status (defector)
Message:
why did you leave?
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 09:47:09 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Jim-About LG
Message:
I just went back to LG to scoop up a couple of quotes relating directly to premies reactions to CAC. However, one particularly interesting conversation I had with a fellow named R2 had been entirely deleted. This thread contained some good banter exemplifying the twisted premie mind-set.

I did find this post from CD about your banishment from LG:

Jim's letter to CACs ISP is over on the other forum if you are interested in reading it and
discussing it with him.
Here is the link:
Forum 6

I posted the link to replace the posting of the letter on the Lifes Great forum. Jim already has
2 forums for his battles, F6 and now F7. That should be enough for him to state his case.
Even though I do not condone the actions of the CACs site, I don't want this site to become
merely a part of Jim's game.

Thanks,
CD

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 09:34:15 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: All
Subject: For Jim-A Post From LG (enjoy)
Message:
All the debate in the world will never resolve issues about Knowledge that the mind makes up.
Never.

It's a lot like listening to a beautiful symphony. You can stand there and say 'what about the
trumpets?' and 'what about the strings?' and 'did the composer meant *this* or *that*' and on
ad infinitum.

If you like the symphony: enjoy it. If you don't: then get up and walk out. And if you sit
through the thing for 20 years and suddenly decide you don't like it, blame yourself, not the
orchestra.

-From WT

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:01:58 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Thanks, Rick
Message:
Let me guess. On LG, right now, Bjorn's making no sense, CT is being nice but off in la la land, Carlos is straigtening the deck chairs on the Titanic, SC is pathetically showing off how cool (?) and funny (?) he is, David Andersen is just hangin', Catweasel's sneering 'Nya uh AH! like Snidely Whiplash and CD is telling everyone how great life is, he just got a new guitar.

Did I miss anyone?

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 20:40:19 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Thanks, Rick
Message:
Pretty good, Jim. Actually, the activity on LG is about 3/8 as busy as you describe. CD has deleted some of the few meaningful posts, and everyone else has put each other to sleep.

If you showed that forum to a stranger and said 'Do you want to get involved in this?', you'd get some good laughs.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 04:53:39 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Charles Glasser does the decent thing
Message:
Wango tango reports on LG:

FWIW Charles G. updated his website, asking Boris to stop.

He also removed the Journey postings and took a more litehearted approach about the Critics. No reference to thir failed suicide attempts or drug abuse. What a wuss. Just Kidding.


[ Charles Glasser's website ]

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 16:03:51 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: Pat:C)
Subject: :: not a cult since 1968, and growing ::
Message:
Wango tango reports on LG:

FWIW Charles G. updated his website, asking Boris to stop.

He also removed the Journey postings and took a more litehearted approach about the Critics. No reference to thir failed suicide attempts or drug abuse. What a wuss. Just Kidding.


---

I looked at Glasser's site. More name-calling -- lots of it.
Which is fine; I invoke 'sticks and stones' to ward it off.

What we do here (in aggregate) is not sticks and stones; we get
people to think about things. We do that by digging deep; we
ask questions, questions, questions.

Glasser's house isn't about questions: it's about providing answers.

As though the reader were unable to find them for themselves.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:52:19 (EDT)
From: little a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: Pat:C)
Subject: :: who's that fat guy? ::
Message:
FWIW Charles G. updated his website, asking Boris to stop.

---

I clicked on the link. Who's the fat guy on there?

little a0aji

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:57:08 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: little a0aji
Subject: Re: :: who's that fat guy? ::
Message:
Chris,

You know how sensitive m is about being called fat....I read his speaks about it on a recent EV newletter....

Naughty boy!

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 23:33:48 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: :: who's that fat guy? ::
Message:
Chris,

You know how sensitive m is about being called fat....I read his
[space aliens intervene and take away coherency] speaks about it on a recent EV newletter....

Naughty boy!

---

Hi a Cynthia,

I'm fat. I don't get my picture of my big fat belly put on
a magazine cover, though. I don't think it belongs there!

If somebody loves me or knows me, that's fine. But (from a
polite distance) it is a perfectly reasonable question:

Who's that fat guy? ;)

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:31:06 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: My reply to Glasser
Message:
Re his intro re the 'Critics':

It takes all kinds of people to make this crazy world... So what now? You might have read some really nasty stuff about Maharaji and the people who practice Knowledge. I know, it doesn't seem right, does it?

Doesn't seem right in which respect? That it's true or that we're talking about it openly?

What kind of people spend every waking hour hating or being angry or trying to deconstruct something like Knowledge or a person like Maharaji?

I dunno. Angry?

I've learned since first creating this page and reading hundreds of e-mails that it is unfair to classify ALL of these people into one big group. In fact, I've come to learn that there are different reasons people can choose to become unhappy, and different reasons that some of these people are confusing themselves and others and in worse cases, attacking other people, including Maharaji.

How laughable this guy is! He's never sounded mature but here he reminds me of a little boy forced to apologize to his little sister. 'I'm sorry that you came into my room when you knew I'd hit you ....' Yeah, right, we all choose to be unhappy. It's either buy the commemorative spoons for the rest of your life or take the road of unhappiness.

And some of them DO attack. It's one thing to publicly question the value of Knowledge or a Master, but a handful have gone much much further. Most people call this elite squadron of crazies 'The Hate Club.'

What kind of lie is this now? The 'Hate Club' branding is completely off as I clearly proved in my (unanswered) post to Carlos, linked above. But no, Glasser has to perpetuate the bullshit, targetting some phantom 'elite squad of crazies'. This is what Pat calls doing the 'decent thing'?? I guess it's true, we expect so little from the cult and its members that even a little, albeit woefully inadequate correction on their part, gets major kudos. Funny, isn't it?

And to be fair, someone, I guess under the misshapen idea that (s)he's helping things, has decided to give them 'a dose of their own medicine.' (More about that elsewhere.) All I can say is that two wrongs never made a right.

Funny, that was exactly your own justification in putting up your site in the first place, if I recall.

Below, I've tried to sort out how I think of some of these people, sort of a Spotter's Guide, maybe understand a bit what's behind their actions. This is just one man's opinion, I'm hardly a psychologist or a sociologist, but here goes...

No, indeed you're not. You're a cult member and that's really got to have a serious impact on your perceptions in the circumstances.

Re the 'Tin Foil Hat Club':

The Tin Foil Hat Club On my original page, I reproduced copies of some of the postings of these particular folks. Of course, the reaction was, well, shall we say, vivid?

Try outraged. Try incensed that someone would stoop as low as you did there, trying to dismiss us entirely as imbalanced, drug addicted misfits and the like.

And, it was also fairly raised that these people are not representative of everyone who no longer practices Knowledge.

Granted, there are those who leave and never look back. Thankfully for others and too bad for the cult, there are the rest.

But there's no denying it: Some of these folks are stone cold crazy. I'm sorry to say it, and I don't mean to say that all or even most of them are insane, but the loudest of the ctitics seem to be very fond of foaming-at-the-mouth, conspiracy theories straight out of The X-Files. Look, everyone is a 'little' wacky. I know a few people who practice Knowledge who are a few cards shy of a full deck. But if you're looking at other people to judge your own experience -- always a big mistake -- you're compounding things by looking at these folks to take a measure of Maharaji or Knowledge.

Normally, when someone challenges another's thinking and opinions, they do so substantitively. Of course, like PIA, EV, CAC, all the premies on LG and CAC now as well, Glasser can't do that. He's just spitting into the wind, as a result.

They built a web site based on rumors and stories from 30 years ago. Remember that 'Telephone' game you played when you were a kid? The first person said 'pass the mustard' and it wound up turning into 'rabbits eat lizards.' That's what the Internet is like. Even in that rare instance where the first person may have actually seen or heard something, by the time it gets republished on a web page run by a handful of people with a clearly negative agenda, it takes on a crazy and weird life of its own. Do you believe everything you read on the Internet? These people are so desperate to believe something, that they'll believe anything.

Okay, Glasser begins to actually, vaguely, tentatively say something. And what he says is basically that we've distorted to past, put words into Maharaji's mouth, perhaps, that he never said. Taken them out of context, perhaps. Again, the onus is on Glasser to keep going. Point out the specific inaccuracies. Show us how we've distorted things. Get right in there and rub our faces in our own stupidity, if he feels that strongly about it -- but, no, that will never happen. Why? Because Glasser's shooting blanks and he knows it.

That's also why Knowledge is so incredible. You have your experience, not someone else's. And I don't know about you, but if I'm going to spend time listening to someone talk about their experience, I want to hear something inspiring, not weird, depressing or just plain nuts.

Sorry, this guy's a lawyer? I don't mean to brag or anything but I thought we were taught to be a little more precise in our language and arguments. At least when I went to school that was the case. Glasser's just flailing here. There's nothing to respond to. What's next?

Re the 'Hate Club':

So driven is the Hate Club, that they have made disgusting 'deals with the Devil.' One Hate Club leader is now being paid to track Maharaji by a racist, anti-religious movement which has been condemned internationally by feminists, Catholics, Jews, Muslims and even the United States Congress. In France, one of these people actually got on the radio and encouraged listeners to phone in bomb threats. But the harassment goes from the global to the local. I ought to know. After this website first appeared, I was harassed at work, got threatening e-mail, they published my picture and phone number world-wide on the Internet to encourage others to abuse me and much more. Those decent people who condemned this were bloodied and badgered by the Hate Club until they finally left. (On the bright side, I've gotten letters from several who are practicing Knowledge again!).

Lies, lies and more lies. He's got proof that someone is being paid by a 'racist, anti-religious movement which has been condemned internationally by feminists, Catholics, Jews, Muslims and even the United States Congress', where is it? Looks like there IS a crackpot worried about crazy conspiracy theories and that's Glasser. And bomb threat? More lies! Again, who's the paranoid one, Charles? As for 'threatening email', that sounds like a lie too. Otherwise, where is it? WHAT is it? From who and why didn't Glasser ever do anything about it? No, I say he's lying. He's never shown one shred of evidence to support this allegation. In the circusmtances, given some of his other lies, the fair presumption has to be that this, too, is just another one.

It's been said elsewhere, but I think these few --and you can spot them right away by the insulting way they talk-- are the saddest of the lot, because like spurned and obsessed lovers, they will go to almost any length to get the attention they crave. I mean, honestly, what does it take to spend the amount of time on this that they do? Quite a recipe: one part loneliness, two parts bitterness, a pound of confusion and a pinch of paranoia. Mix well and serve very hot. The Hate Club: Proud to Be Poisonous Home Back It's one thing to have questions about Knowledge. It's quite another to dedicate your life to hurting Maharaji personally and to prevent others from practicing Knowledge. That's the Hate Club. There are really only 4 or 5 of them, but they have a loud and bullying way of dominating the agenda. They have publicly vowed to let no positive expression about Knowledge go unsmeared. No matter what is said, these hardy few will scream and scream and scream until reasonable people give up and go away. Which is just what the Hate Club wants. They have publicly stated their agenda plain and simple. They will do and say anything to destroy Maharaji and the practice of Knowledge. It is utterly astonishing. Their hallmark is a complete and total inability to say anything positive.

You mean 'anything positive about your cult and its leader'. If that's the ticket, I'm in, Glasser. So what? Deal in substance and drop the tiring, irrelevant ad hominems for a change.

They have posted the most intimate of private information about Maharaji and his family and children, and embellished it with perverted sexual content and worse.

You mean things about Maharaji's mistress or the other premie girls he'd pick up, fuck and dump? You're damned right that's intimate info, Glasser. Yet, it's par for the course in defrocking and exposing fake holy men, always has been. And to the extent that his family, like Shri Hans family a generation earlier, has jumped onto the fake God bandwagon, they're all fair game. You want to argue that point, we can argue it. You can even post as 'Krusty the Clown' or one of your other nasty personas if you like. But let's talk about it, if you have the guts to actually debate some of this shit.

They have contacted several premies' employers to 'warn' them about a dangerous cult.

Yeah? Like who? Which ones? Liar!
They spend hours -- I'm not kidding -- planning and plotting about how to disrupt public programs and scare people away from attending.

Another ugly lie. Prove it or shut up. These bald-faced lies are no better than CAC. Looks like we need to get EV to slap your wrist again too, huh? Fine, we will.

The sickest part is that when confronted with the immorality of their behavior, they only say 'Maharaji's a public figure, I can say and do whatever I want.' As if that made their behavior appropriate or even legal.

What an irresponsible liar you are! No one's ever said we can 'do whatever we want' because Maharaji's a public figure. What we HAVE said is that we can ridicule him and discuss him with great liberty on that count. We've also made the point, repeatedly, that Maharaji would never sue even if we did say something he thought was actionable because he can't bear the thought of having to answer for his whole life under oath. Really, Charles, can you imagine THAT deposition?? We'll see who's been distorting the historical record, should that ever happen, won't we?

Re the 'Navel Gazers':

What happens when you die? What's karma? What's shakti? Are you God? Am I God? Where does time begin? How much does the human soul weigh? Man, oh man, what questions...you might as well ask if the Red Sox will ever win a World Series...

What a farce! Maharaji is caught, red-handed on this one. We've got the quotes, we've got the interviews. You're jut making a fool of yourself, Glasser. This kind of 'wisdom' was stock-in-trade for supposed wise-men like Maharaji and he traded in it with relish. Worse, he still does! Note how even today he's telling premies that Knowledge can save them from 'the clutches of death'. Or how, with Knowledge, they can leave this world with something more than they came with.

A good handful of critics are people who quite innocently fell into the trap of coming to Knowledge with preconceived ideas about spirituality. Maharaji has said dozens of times in dozens of ways that you just can't put Knowledge into a nice little box. It will simply never fit. And to be fair, back in the early Seventies, an awful lot of people encouraged a quasi-Indian religion to develop around Maharaji.

None more than Maharaji himself. The record speaks for itself. If people like Glasser are too afraid to actually address it, that's their problem.

That was very attractive to a lot of people, but when Maharaji got a little older, and little more acculturated, he dismantled most of that, leaving people with no external substitute for the experience of Knowledge. Well, some of these folks felt cheated or abandoned.

What exactly do you sing to yourself when you stand and sway for a little nostalgic arti these days? How about when you kiss his feet? This is preposterous. The case is so overwhelming, it's relaly liek arguing with a flat-earther. Would try anyone's patience.

But out of what? Living in an ashram and eating brown rice and tofu every night? They still had Knowledge, but wanted all the trappings and window dressing instead. It seems that these folks could only practice Knowledge if taught by a poor Indian in white robes and a heavy accent, rather than a very cool and witty guy with remarkable talents and exquisite taste. Why should I care if he drives a nice car? But for anyone lucky enough to have an open heart, willing to put their ideas away for just a second, Maharaji was still there, offering that experience. He still is, and that experience inside hasn't changed one iota.

It sure as hell HAS changed! Used to be meditate on the word or holy name 24/7. When you got pure enough, renuciated enough, dead to the world of ego and mind enough, you just might be ready to 'realize Knowledge'. That meant God-realization. Becoming a living human saint. Like Jagdeo.

A fair number of other critics are people whose ego has risen to the top, and insist that they practice Knowledge without a Master. I personally doubt it, but hey, if you can, good for you. But these same people have a funny way of wandering over to the Hate Club now and then. If you have that experience without a Master, why are you so hell-bent on convincing others to do the same, unless what you are really trying to do is convince yourself?

First he says he's not a psychologist, then he spends al lthe rest of his time trying to dissect the motives exes have for confronting their former cult leader. Why not leave all this and just deal with the facts instead? Maybe because there's no fight there? Of course that's it.

Re people who don't pratise Knowledge anymore:

People can always decide that they want something
else in their lives, or choose to walk other paths.
That is as true the day after receiving Knowedge as
it is 20 years later. Someone who makes that
choice with no malice is simply a person who
does not practice Knowledge anymore.
I certainly bear them no ill-will, and I don't know anyone who does. For me, that comes down to 'live and let live.'

Of course a premie like Glasser who can't bear looking at the facts must absolutely hate it when we won't shut up about them. I'm curious, do you think he'd say the same thing about former Sai Baba followers who get pissed off at THEIR former master what with his own sexual exploitation and general fraudulent character?

Being an avowed 'ex-premie' means something very different. It is an affirmative, conscious and deliberate choice to participate in a
destructive and hostile mechanism.

First of all, anyone who was once a premie and now isn't is, by definition, an ex-premie. The term evolved easily enough because it's just so basic. Used to live in New York, don't any longer? You're an ex-New Yorker.

No one was ever 'forced' or 'tricked' into practicing Knowledge. To claim that you were is to disempower yourself; to refuse to take resonsibility
for your own life and your own choices.
It is lazy, self-centered and ultimately destructive.

Yes, well Glasser can try to glom onto this stupid bit of new age cliched thinking all he likes (sorry Donner :) ), but that's all it is. We were most definitely forced and tricked into being and staying premies. And you're damn right it was disempowering. So?

There are benign, gentle and funny people who spend time with the critics out of boredom, nostalgia or curiosity. I think that these folks know deep in their hearts that there
is something very special about Knowledge and Maharaji, otherwise they wouldn't spend the time that
they do thinking about him and talking about Knowledge.

What the hell is this about now? Act civilly, beyond the call of duty, to assholes like Glasser and this is what you get for it, some armchair psychoanalysis to the effect that you're still a premie at heart.

I think that it is very easy to be confused, and that when a person is confused, talking only to other confused people has a way of making it worse.

Too bad that when it really comes down to correcting that 'confusion' you won't even try. Nary a word said dealing with anything substantive. Just a lot of irrelevant ad hominem bullshit.

Your position's bankrupt, Glasser. That's obvious.
[ Why the Hate Club title's simply absurd ]

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:29:20 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'a very cool and witty guy...
Message:
with remarkable talents and exquisite taste.'

Gee, it sounds as if Glasser is talking about me!!!

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:56:08 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Then Glasser's reply to me (and my return)
Message:
I sent that long post to Glasser who replied:

'Thanks for sharing. Now please leave me alone.
-cjg

to which I then replied (Subject line -- Quit Harrassing Me!):

This is to notify you that any further contact at this my home email, for god's sake, will be viewed as intimidation and harrassment and reported immediately.

No, seriously, if you believe even half the things you say on your website, why not have the guts to discuss them? You're a lawyer, you know how it works. You have a position, argue it. Otherwise, what you're doing is MOST cowardly. It's already spawned at least one ugly imitator -- CAC -- which is a big public relations mess for your guru. Do you think your site's that much better?

Come on, Charles, come out from hiding and talk with us. Otherwise, take that shit off the net before your own guru spanks your bottom.

Sincerely,

Jim Heller

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 20:59:06 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, you have been harrassed!
Message:
Did Charles email that to your OFFICE? Did it contain a virus? It might, you know. Did you find it harrassing, irritating or defamatory? Are you going to start a website to get those people who are harrassing you?

Now I'm harrassed, just reading that. It's time to start another website.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 21:17:52 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Actually, Joe, I think YOU're harrassing me!
Message:
Joe,

To be serious, Charles emailed me at home! I can't decide which is worse, of course. Office is where I work but home is where I live, you know? Tough one.

As for viruses, well, I can tell you this: I don't really know if he sent me a virus but then that's how a good virus works, isn't it? I do know that I've been coughing all afternoon. And Charles sure hasn't done anything to help the situation. So yeah, maybe it was him.

I don't know if I should start a website because, for one thing, I don't know if there are any websites left. I heard they were all used up or something. All those EV mirror sites ('Announcing: Elan Vital North Dakota's Finally On-Line!'). But I would if you thought it would help. I can trust you, I think, Joe, because, whatever you are, at least you're not one of the 'Worst Alleged Cybertalkers', (although you really are a bit of a Cybertalker, although I guess I am too so what the fuck, eh?)

But, it's the last line in your post that worries me. You say that YOU'RE feeling harrassed now? Let me get this right, you're blaming me for harrassing you? Well that's a bit much, don't you think? Actually, it's more like you're harrassing me, isn't it? I mean, like really ....

And don't even think of replying to me. If you don't I won't read it, and if I do read it I won't respond, and if I do respond, well, that's my choice then, isn't it?

Tearing a page from Charles Glasser, who's website says it best but who personally told me in email today, 'Thanks for sharing. Now please leave me alone'

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:43:50 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jesus Jim
Message:
Did you really write all that? And I was wondering where you went :)
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:51:39 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: This is what I do when I'm sick
Message:
It's also what I do when I'm well which is REALLY sick.

Oh welllll

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 19:46:42 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: This is what I do when I'm sick
Message:
I did not know that you are sick in a sick way. hope you get better then you can be sickly sick.

Did you manage to rad the file I sent u after all?

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 20:07:46 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Re: This is what I do when I'm sick
Message:
Yes, I did read the file. Interesting visit, I'm sure. The business card didn't come through, though.

Maybe these guys would be interested in helping you out vis-a-vis your CAC profile?

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:13:02 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks for the reality check
Message:
This is much more palatable than the fuckin' apologies. Glasser has been aware of the cyberstalking campaign for months. Remember when he accused me of cyberstalking JUST for emailing him about my posts on his website. Could you believe this person doubles as a professional attorney by day? yeessshhhh

Glasser, I kept your emails where you accuse me of cyberstalking. Any attorney would question why YOU of all people would respond so unprofessionally to a valid concern about MY character assassination on YOUR ex-cult debunking website. Not to mention your ugly posts and personal attacks under pseudos at the EPO forum and Life's Grate.
You are a crusty clown but that's not my professional opinion.
I'm neither a psychologist nor an attorney.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:02:03 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Jim's reply to Glasser
Message:
I guess you have forgotten that I specialize in giving people enough rope to hang themselves. Mr Glasser's silly lies speak for themselves. I will not dignify them with a debate.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 12:25:49 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Glass avoids his own responsbility
Message:
I haven't read all of the changes to Glasser's site, but it's clear he realizes even his site, which is somewhat less sweeping and full of false generalizations about people than CAC and doesn't name names, has to an extent backfired, probably to some degree even encouraging what those on CAC did. I mean if this attorney at Willkie, Farr and Gallager in New York can call ex-premies names and categorize them as perverts in general, why not get specific? How much did Glasser's actions incite the CAC fanatics?

Glasser takes no responsibility for what he did, and what he may have started, and what he has tried to say to compensate is laudable, but it's a little late. Plus, one wonders how much is now being done by Charles Glasser Jr, because he, unlike those slime at CAC, is not anonymous, (not that he didn't try to be), so now Glasser is in the same group as CAC, and man, it looks bad, real bad for Glasser, and for Maharaji and his cult. Quick, do an Elan Vital, Charles, and try, real, real hard to distance yourself from obviously illegal activity. Charles isn't stupid, he justs acts like it when it's convenient to protect himself or his master.

Look the ex-premies have attacked MAHARAJI, they have not attacked premies as any particular kind of person, labeled them defective or drug addicts or communists, or in any way attacked them as individuals, UNLIKE Glasser and Pia Grunbaum. Glasser and CAC have done something very different than ex-premies and the difference between CAC and Glasser is only in degree.

See, to Glasser and other cult members an attack on Maharaji is an attack on THEM. There are no boudaries in an abusive and unhealthy 'master devotee' relationship. Lack of boundaries is one of the destructive things and a HUGE blindspot for most premies, including Charles.

And the following is a complete lie and Charles Glasser knows it:

I know that here is no way Maharaji or Elan Vital can 'make' this guy stop. But Boris, if you read this, please, hate never stopped hate.

Maybe Elan Vital can't, because it's common knowledge that many, many premies hate and distrust Elan Vital, but Maharaji, that is another story. Those people who run CAC have pledged their devotion to Maharaji and his teachings. They are among his most fanatic devotees, just like Fakiranand was.

If Maharaji said publicly he didn't want that website up there anymore it would be GONE and Charles Glasser Jr. knows this, and so does every premie and ex-premie who has been involved with the Maharaji cult for more than 15 minutes. Playing stupid, Charles, does not become you, but you use it in the same way Elan Vital does, to protect Maharaji from his own lack of morals and integrity that has plagued him his entire life.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:17:45 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Yes, Can you say AMEN?
Message:
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes :)
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:57:07 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Excellent post, Joe! Needed to be said...
Message:
...Glasser has every reason to do this cya shuffle and distance himself from cac, who undoubtedly would be viewed as a group of psycho cult members by any objevtive 3rd party looking in on these events.
As you inferred ever so subtle, career considerations must certainly come into play for Glasser.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:34:37 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Here's something I really hate...
Message:
Hi all,

Something I absolutely despise and hate is when anyone is called crazy.

First of all there's no such diagnosis as ''crazy.'' It's too easy for people like Charles, et al, to categorize exes as crazy from reading what we written on the forum over the months and years.

Insane isn't an official diagnosis, either. One can be legally insane, but the DMSR has no such listing.

I think this is the work of someone who has no understanding of humans because he's in a cult--that's it.

And I also believe that most of the people who write here are some of the smartest people I've encountered in a long, long time.

Emotional or psychiatric problems occur in the general population and that includes members of a cult, ex-members of a cult, members of a mainstream religion, agnostics, and atheists.

I REALLY HATE THAT CRAZY LABEL ALOT!!!

Cynthia, the stigma buster

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:03:29 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I emailed the above to Charles Glasser, Jr. nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:43:00 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: THE TRUTH ABOUT MAHARAJI
Message:
I admit to being slightly ticked...that Mr. Glasser took the name of the Website formerly administered by Sir Dave...who was blackmailed off the Site..THE TRUTH ABOUT MAHARAJI..Bull..

I would completely accept Mr. Glasser at his word that He isnt involved in a Cult...However Maha/Rawat...had programmed enough of Us INTO his Cult to support Him and His Family Grandly..and never bothered to Deprogram or tell the Truth about his actions.

Those who want to be grateful to an Alcholic who does not own the Techniques of Meditation he 'reveals'...and who still plays the Instrumental Version of Arti at Programs for his Personal Cult Members...While Spouting Platitudes and Passing the Collecting Plate are welcome to...

Charles may have a great experience...The Experience of HIMSELF..having nothing to DO with Maharaji...

THE TRUTH ABOUT MAHARAJI..however..I read on Sir Dave's Website...this new one...is Glib P.R....Thanks for listening..RichMandrake..

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 16:16:09 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: RichMandrake
Subject: :: :q You can say that again :q :: [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:42:02 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: THE TRUTH ABOUT MAHARAJI
Message:
I admit to being slightly ticked...that Mr. Glasser took the name of the Website formerly administered by Sir Dave...who was blackmailed off the Site..THE TRUTH ABOUT MAHARAJI..Bull..

I would completely accept Mr. Glasser at his word that He isnt involved in a Cult...However Maha/Rawat...had programmed enough of Us INTO his Cult to support Him and His Family Grandly..and never bothered to Deprogram or tell the Truth about his actions.

Those who want to be grateful to an Alcholic who does not own the Techniques of Meditation he 'reveals'...and who still plays the Instrumental Version of Arti at Programs for his Personal Cult Members...While Spouting Platitudes and Passing the Collecting Plate are welcome to...

Charles may have a great experience...The Experience of HIMSELF..having nothing to DO with Maharaji...

THE TRUTH ABOUT MAHARAJI..however..I read on Sir Dave's Website...this new one...is Glib P.R....Thanks for listening..RichMandrake..

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 09:38:56 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Nice move Charles
Message:
So now you expect us to clapp for you. Why do you find it so hard to except what ex-premies say? You being the wisened man now, have been issued a challange few weeks ago to enter into a debate and to have outsiders judge for themselves. The Internet may look like a loosly place but it ain't. In the end no one is above the law.

So the question remains, if what is being said is a lie, why haven't Maharaji proved that. Why has not he taken any action.

If I write a whole page about you, listing you name, e-mail, phone numbers...etc, you will take legal action.

And talking about publishing personal information I find that a real inspiration. Please look at CAC and what is happening.

Lastly, the person who published the information about your person is as you know a re-born premie. Even during his short exit I was one of the people that did not trust him. He showed signs of being unstable and sometimes incoherant. All the signals of him being programmed by a cult was apparent. In a twich of an eye, when the world collapsed around him, that person found the only thing that he knew, go back to the safe place, where he did not have to face crticisim, anger and all the other things that members of the hate club and the shame list and the hundreds of exes have to face every day. too stand on our own feet and say we are FREE.

Life is full of options.

I do however appreciate the fact that you have taken names of your site, removed Sofis' Journey and are speaking in general.

I always wonder, when will a premie site will be lunched on the net where the person(s) involved will only express what and why the have knowledge and what's keeping them instead of spreading hate . I wait to see.

I hope you are feeling better as a person.

Regards,

Salam

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 08:50:11 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: I can't get up
Message:
I am typing from the floor, unable to stand up in laughter....

August 24, 2001: A few years ago, some very confused people who had quit practicing Knowledge a long time ago, supported by an even smaller but vocally hateful minority, created a website which encouraged out-of-context quotes, revelation of private facts, sinister juxtaposition of text, out-and-out lie and exaggerated stories for the express purpose of hurting Maharaji and destroying his efforts to spread Knowledge. I have made my feeling clear about them and their efforts.

This month, someone named Boris created a website doing the exact same thing, and then some, targeting people who he felt is trying to hurt Maharaji. This new site is a foul and nasty thing. This site mixes some apparent ugly truths with what is claimed to be exaggeration or outright fiction, and also reveals private information about these people. This is wrong.

Of course I understand the motive. I love Maharaji deeply and dearly. No one else stood by me in my darkest hours. No one else showed me that life was not only worth living, but that I had a choice --and the techniques-- to love this life. And every time I'm confused or lost, no one else has been right there to insipre me, to show me the way. And yes, to see him slandered, abused, misquoted, harassed and disrespected is hurtful to me, too. But I know that Maharaji would never ever want people to hurt one another, to act in a hateful manner.

Contrary to what some critics still think, this is not a cult. I know that here is no way Maharaji or Elan Vital can 'make' this guy stop. But Boris, if you read this, please, hate never stopped hate.


---
Charles

No, is not a cult. We just adore the guy, you know. He brainwashed us real good and now we can't live without him. That is all. Is not a cult.

Oh, please....

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 16:08:57 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: Silvia
Subject: :: Glasser's Tract on Boris' Yellin' ::
Message:
I am typing from the floor, unable to stand up in laughter....

August 24, 2001: A few years ago, some very confused people who had quit practicing Knowledge a long time ago, supported by an even smaller but vocally hateful minority, created a website which encouraged out-of-context quotes, revelation of private facts, sinister juxtaposition of text, out-and-out lie and exaggerated stories for the express purpose of hurting Maharaji and destroying his efforts to spread Knowledge. I have made my feeling clear about them and their efforts.

This month, someone named Boris created a website doing the exact same thing, and then some, targeting people who he felt is trying to hurt Maharaji. This new site is a foul and nasty thing. This site mixes some apparent ugly truths with what is claimed to be exaggeration or outright fiction, and also reveals private information about these people. This is wrong.

Of course I understand the motive. I love Maharaji deeply and dearly. No one else stood by me in my darkest hours. No one else showed me that life was not only worth living, but that I had a choice --and the techniques-- to love this life. And every time I'm confused or lost, no one else has been right there to insipre me, to show me the way. And yes, to see him slandered, abused, misquoted, harassed and disrespected is hurtful to me, too. But I know that Maharaji would never ever want people to hurt one another, to act in a hateful manner.

Contrary to what some critics still think, this is not a cult. I know that here is no way Maharaji or Elan Vital can 'make' this guy stop. But Boris, if you read this, please, hate never stopped hate.


---
Charles

No, is not a cult. We just adore the guy, you know. He brainwashed us real good and now we can't live without him. That is all. Is not a cult.

Oh, please....


---

Thanks for the repost, Silvia. I didn't see this page.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 06:03:47 (EDT)
From: peg
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Oh now I see!
Message:
I'd never read his site before.
This answers my question about how 'devoted' premies cope with stuff like MD's letters. They tell themselves it's a load of lies and exaggerations.
Oh my god is it????!!!!!
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 03:50:07 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: All
Subject: testing
Message:
testing testing
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 09:52:45 (EDT)
From: [Blank]
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Re: testing testing
Message:
what are we testing.

testing testing

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:50:42 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: [Blank]
Subject: Re: testing testing
Message:
i was having computer problems
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:19:11 (EDT)
From: Testing Testing
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Re: testing testing
Message:
btdt btdt btdt
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 23:23:01 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Testing Testing
Subject: Re: testing testing
Message:
btdt btdt btdt


---

You sound like Twiki.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:51:27 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Apostate:One who has Abandoned what he once...
Message:
he once Believed In....that is the definition in my (albeit abridged) dictionary..The Damning accusation of the CAC Mob...
Well,I guess, I too am an Apostate.
I once Believed Maharaji Was the Lord of Creation..
I no Longer do.
I once believed Maharaji was here to bring peace to the whole world.
I no Longer do
I once believed that when Maharaji told us to pray to him...He could listen to those Prayers.
I no longer do.
I once believed that when Maharaji told me that the purpose of My life was to surrender to him..to give everything to him...It was for My sake..and not his...
I no longer do.
I once believed that when Maharaji contradicted himself, refused to explain things and denied the truth...It was somehow to help me surrender..and further his goal to bring peace to the world.
I no longer do.
I once believed that Maharaji was merged into a state of such peace and joy that taking one drink of alcohol would be totally unappealing to him, much less becoming drunk several nights a week for years on end.
I no longer do.
I once thought Maharaji was the Incarnation of the Highest Ideals of Humanity...and that he would be incapable of using premies for his own ends..or premie women for his own sexual gratification.
I no longer do.
I Once thought that I was on the Highest Path of Realization...Fortunate beyond belief to be a devotee of the Living Lord...who would eventually explain the Incredible Lila of being God..and then Denying that he was..or even Ever Claimed to Be..
Alas...and Finally...I No longer do.

I am an Apostate..Sadly...One who has Abandoned what he Once Believed in....and yet Ironically only after finding out that the One whom I gave my Love and Adoration to...had already Abandoned Me.
The Idealism of My Youth..The Hunger of My Heart..Attached to what had become a Tortured Dream Of Unfullfilled Promise...thinking that It was I ....who had failed The Dream....Now and Finally..I am Finding it Was The Dream...That Failed Me...and So Sadly...the not so Perfect Master...
Greetings...Fellow Apostates....RichMandrake

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 23:20:45 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: RichMandrake
Subject: :: The Apostate's Creed ::
Message:
he once Believed In....that is the definition in my (albeit abridged) dictionary..The Damning accusation of the CAC Mob...
Well,I guess, I too am an Apostate.
I once Believed Maharaji Was the Lord of Creation..
I no Longer do.
I once believed Maharaji was here to bring peace to the whole world.
I no Longer do
I once believed that when Maharaji told us to pray to him...He could listen to those Prayers.
I no longer do.
I once believed that when Maharaji told me that the purpose of My life was to surrender to him..to give everything to him...It was for My sake..and not his...
I no longer do.
I once believed that when Maharaji contradicted himself, refused to explain things and denied the truth...It was somehow to help me surrender..and further his goal to bring peace to the world.
I no longer do.
I once believed that Maharaji was merged into a state of such peace and joy that taking one drink of alcohol would be totally unappealing to him, much less becoming drunk several nights a week for years on end.
I no longer do.
I once thought Maharaji was the Incarnation of the Highest Ideals of Humanity...and that he would be incapable of using premies for his own ends..or premie women for his own sexual gratification.
I no longer do.
I Once thought that I was on the Highest Path of Realization...Fortunate beyond belief to be a devotee of the Living Lord...who would eventually explain the Incredible Lila of being God..and then Denying that he was..or even Ever Claimed to Be..
Alas...and Finally...I No longer do.

I am an Apostate..Sadly...One who has Abandoned what he Once Believed in....and yet Ironically only after finding out that the One whom I gave my Love and Adoration to...had already Abandoned Me.
The Idealism of My Youth..The Hunger of My Heart..Attached to what had become a Tortured Dream Of Unfullfilled Promise...thinking that It was I ....who had failed The Dream....Now and Finally..I am Finding it Was The Dream...That Failed Me...and So Sadly...the not so Perfect Master...
Greetings...Fellow Apostates....RichMandrake


---

The Apostate's Creed.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 23:08:26 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: RichMandrake
Subject: :: I no longer do ::
Message:
Well,I guess, I too am an Apostate.
I once Believed Maharaji Was the Lord of Creation..
I no Longer do.
I once believed Maharaji was here to bring peace to the whole world.
I no Longer do
I once believed that when Maharaji told us to pray to him...He could listen to those Prayers.
I no longer do.


---

That sounds like an un-wedding ceremony:

'Do you take this man to be your Lord?'

'I no longer do.'

'Do you promise to keep in touch with him, through
your devotional love; satsang, service, and meditation?'

'I no longer do.'
'I now pronounce you free of the cult. Maharaji, you can kiss my ass.'

[cue music]

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:30:30 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: HEY - Can we call ourselves APOSTATES?
Message:
Really I like it. If it's good enough for Mikey, it's good enough for me. Really, I like the name a lot.

Hey Michael, can we be share your honourary title of apostate?

I am an apostate. Hi, I'm Deborah Rose and I am an apostate.

Works for me.

New site: Apostates.org

Sounds kinda sexy, don't you think?

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 12:47:17 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: I nominate the above as **BEST**
Message:
But I'm not sure that exists anymore.

Extremely well done, Rich. You said it very well.

(Much better than Pauline ::)))

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 12:19:05 (EDT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Suitable for Framing
Message:
Well said Rich, you have perfectly summarized and defined many of the deep issues and reasons why I also had to leave. I am going to print out your post and hang it on my wall.

When confronted with the facts, the real history of the techniques and the and the way Maharaji conducts himself there is no other choice an honest man can make but to exit.

You said it all so beautifuly Rich, spoken from the heart, a gem like this sparkles truth in dark places. Every premie and aspirant should have the opportunity to read this.

Why not post it on the LG site?

Very inspiring, what you said here really goes to 'the heart of the matter'

Thank You
Brian Smith, fellow apostate

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 05:59:40 (EDT)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: yes I also am an apostate
Message:
That says it for me too, strange how I managed to keep those beliefs for so long.
Even recently, (although if you had asked me if I thought M was god or K the only way I would have said no), I think all those beliefs were still intact in a small important area of my brain keeping me going to programmes and sighing blissfully over his words and indeed feeling fantastically peaceful and united with everyone.

It wasn't until I read the stuff on EPO that I became aware of this as it unraveled.
I have a premie friend who doesn't seem affected . She says she realised she didn't know m and could never do devotion (not for want of trying) but likes the Knowledge.
I suppose this is fair enough .. the thing that is wrong is if vulnerable people get sucked in believing something that isn't true.(Like me!)

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:45:29 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Re: yes I also am an apostate
Message:
Hi Peg,

A person only allows themself to hear something when they have the ability or the conscious intention to deal with that something.
I would not assume that your friend is unaffected by the truth about Maha. Rather, she is more likely resisting the information for the time being.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:02:34 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Re: yes I also am an apostate
Message:
Peg

I very much agree. All those years, since day one, I rather prided myself that the world of knowledge was not a cult, unlike other such organizations. If family and friends even hinted at such a thing, I dismissed their musings as ignorance and wondered why they didn't have more faith in me and my intelligence. 'Me? In a cult? You've got to be kidding! I could sniff a cult a mile away and never fall for it.......'
Yesterday and today, I've been questioning just what dynamics were in place that I couldn't see this. I mean, 27 years of not seeing this? And everytime I read the word 'cult' here, it made me wince. I admit, it tweeked me. This is all so difficult to face but when the truth strikes, it strikes hard.

Yesterday I posted addresses of insightful webs that were helpful to me.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 04:01:03 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: You're so calm, Rich
Message:
When I think about that stuff I feel quite annoyed with Rev Rawat and that's why I still post - especially since he denies that ever happened. I also happened to fill 107 peoples' heads with that sort of nonsense and bring them to M and K in my first 8 years of Maharajism and hope that I can one day make it up to them. It's hard to face the fact that I told so many people that the Lord was here - mainly for the beer as it turns out.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 23:14:06 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Pat:C)
Subject: :: people who listened to us ::
Message:
It's hard to face the fact that I told so many people that the Lord was here


---

I couldn't get one person to listen to me!

Now, suddenly, I can be proud of this -- I meant to do that! ;)

I was thinking today, about how grateful I am that my family did
not get sucked into the cult, through my involvement. I could
just see how awful that would be for me: to watch them stay
involved.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 02:01:40 (EDT)
From: Apostate Silvia
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: One who has Abandoned LORDY
Message:
Nice work. 'the not so Perfect Master...' is full of nice words which we are glad to have discovered to be false.

At least we can have some moments/years of 'sobriety', unlike many who will remain trapped in the dreaming state of being special for having a guru, maybe until they live Earth...

Isn't truth amazing? All what is true, not just the fabricated one by the courtesy of a lying guru. Can you imagine what will happen if XXXXX recognizes and announces he is fake? He could become poor in two minutes, unable to respond all lawsuits he would receive. He is not stupid.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 23:12:46 (EDT)
From: Aila
Email: None
To: All
Subject: To the despicable Prem Pal Sing Rawat
Message:
Musings of a woman on her father's proselytizing in the Congo and her years in his cult... so to speak

If you are whole, you will argue: Why wouldn't they rejoice? Don't the poor miserable buggers all want to be like me?

Not necessarily, no. The arrogance of the able-bodied {knowledge filled} is staggering. Yes, maybe we'd like to be able to get places quickly, and carry things in both hands, but only because we have to keep up with the rest of you, or get The Verse {satsang} . We would rather be just like us, and have that be all right.

How can I explain that my two unmatched halves used to add up to more than one whole? In Congo I was on-half benduka 'the crooked walker', and one-half benduka, 'the sleek bird that dipped in and out of the banks with a crazy ungrace that took your breath'. We both had our good points.....

And how can I invent my version of the story, without my crooked vision? How is it right to slip free of an old skin and walk away from the scene of the crime? {bone chilling dampness of a tent outside London or perhaps Amaroo, a cesspool in Kissimee... anywhere, any town you harassed us for money or had your mahatmas and initiators stalk and prey upon our weary souls....til we gave up and became prisoners of your twisted religion.}

We came, we saw, we took away and we left behind, we must be allowed our anguish and our regrets......

'Do you want to forget?'

'Are we allowed to remember?'

'The sins of the father,' I said.

'The sins of the father are not discussed. That's how it is.' She said.

I know she is right. Even the Congo has tried to slip out of her old flesh, to pretend it isn't scarred. Congo {Maharaji's Knowledge} was a woman in shadows, dark-hearted, moving to a drumbeat. Zaire is a tall young man tossing salt over his shoulder. All the old injuries have been renamed: Kinshasa, Kisangani. There was never a King Leopold { Lord of the Universe }, no brash Stanley {Jagdeo}, bury them, forget. You have nothing to lose but your chains.

But I don't happen to agree. If chained is where you have been, your arms will always bear marks of the shackles. What you have to lose is your story, your own slant. You'll look at the scars on your arms and see mere ugliness, or you'll take great care to look away from them and see nothing. Either way, you have no words for the story of where you came from.

'I'll discuss it,' I said. 'I despised him. He was a despicable man.'
.........
Tall and straight I may appear but I will always be {me} inside. A crooked little person trying to tell the truth. The power is in the balance: we are our injuries, as much as we are our successes.

Adapted from the writing of B Kingsolver... The Poisonwood Bible

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 12:59:32 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Aila
Subject: Yes!
Message:

J'accuse

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 08:06:02 (EDT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Aila
Subject: Re: To the despicable Prem Pal Sing Rawat
Message:
Thank you Aila!Goodmorning!I would love to see more of your posts.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 00:46:42 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Aila
Subject: glycholic acid helps
Message:
With the chains scars. Dermatologist tested I have proof.
We came, we saw, we took away and we left behind, we must be allowed our anguish and our regrets......
yes. We are allowed our anguish and regrets and there will always be a place to talk.

Sounds like a good book Thanks.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 23:05:17 (EDT)
From: Chris Hafey
Email: tingri@ntplx.net
To: N E Buddy
Subject: I started this. What was I thinking??????
Message:
Ok, here it is:

Kudzu <-- click here

I helped this dude set up this site, originally.

Bill and Cynthia already know who's site this is.

I think it's been there since before I heard about EPO -- I can't imagine having done this since then!

excerpt

Dr. Grape's participation in these projects will most easily be acquired with the provision of a four-wheel drive motor-home or pickup truck with a camper back.

This may be authorized or delivered in Connecticut or provided after private air travel from either Bradley or Brainard Field both in Hartford county.

Electronic transfer numbers will be provided on request by: contacting Dr. Grape

Kudzu, dude .. time to come in out of the cold.
[ Doctor Grape? WTF ]

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:23:31 (EDT)
From: bill burke-Hey Joe,
Email: None
To: Chris Hafey
Subject: Dr Grape is david sommersong, premie [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:12:03 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: bill burke-Hey Joe,
Subject: Yup....
Message:
It's him all right. He's always been a tad strange....

When I first met him he was a--never mind--you know...

Love to you both,
Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:10:47 (EDT)
From: Bill Burke
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Mili, this is quite a low point for you.
Message:
How do you square your borrowed ideas that life here is run by an unconcious oneness and you have to behave in some correct behaviour to merge back in with it,
with your present behaviours on that caca site of yours?

Plenty of people adopt the warrior for god stance
in thier lives, I guess being from Croatia you just HAVE to have some enemy somewhere, and being from Croatia, it has to be a war involving religion.
Guess it is in your genes, I dont think this internet should extend to all parts of the world.
Why not host a local program?
Let us know how the regional syncronicity coordinator helps you out in setting it up just right.
You really need to be more involved in the mission so that you can have a more real grasp of
the realities involved.
It may look better than the virgin mary appearing
to those 3 people in Majorka Croatia, and maybe your family all wish you would take a pilgrimidge
to hear the message of the virgin right from the mouth of the spokeswoman there, but you have thrown your lot with the lord who shimmers on the
western horizon hoping ideas about the breath DO
change reality.

Think about human nature, it tells us something.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:04:30 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: All
Subject: here's another
Message:
This is an amazing site

http://hometown.aol.com/shawdan/essay.htm

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:31:18 (EDT)
From: BTDT
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Too close for comfort
Message:
Scientology,Thriving Cult of Greed and Power-

This site is scary in its similarities.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 12:15:11 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: BTDT
Subject: Re: Too close for comfort
Message:
http://home.snafu.de/tilman/
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:39:34 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: BTDT
Subject: :: please repost::Re: Too close for comfort
Message:
I don't see a link. Please repost. Thank you!
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 03:52:08 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Re: :: please repost::Too close for comfort
Message:
ok. having comp problems
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:37:01 (EDT)
From: sala
Email: None
To: BTDT
Subject: Don't stay here then.
Message:
go to mummy and drink your hot milk bottle, moron.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:25:21 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: sala
Subject: Wake up on the wrong side of the bed?
Message:
BTDT is not a moron, Salami Ji. She may be rattled to see the ugly face of the cult. After all she is new here.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 03:55:14 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Wake up on the wrong side of the bed?
Message:
thank you :)
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 00:00:09 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Oh, that what it is.
Message:
sorry. Sheesh. got a hang up.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 17:00:01 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Is a hangup worse than a hangover? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:20:08 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Sleep Walkers
Message:
I was talking to a premie the other day about what's been going on lately. I also mentioned that police came to see me regarding allegations made by EV that I made on the forum threatening Guru Maharaji with physical boldly harm.

blah blah blah blah.

This is the response I got:

I don't know what you are talking about. I don't visit forums on the Internet to read about knowledge. I go inside and find love. Guru Maharaji never asked me for money I never had a bad experience with him. Maharaji is a master for Me. He gives me an experience. I don't need to know about what is going one out there………………….

If only this person knew.

Premeis, please correct me if am wrong.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:44:38 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Re: Sleep Walkers - git it straight!
Message:
er, correction, r.e.: 'He gives me an experience.'

Life and da universal energy within give you any experience.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:02:15 (EDT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Can you help me out??
Message:
Well, I have to say things are heating up around here. I'm just so excited because I saw the CAC website, and I'm just so thrilled that you guys are finally getting yours.

I'm also thrilled that I have a new way to do participation to Maharaji from the new website, but I'm hoping someone can help me out.

I can't access email and so I need to call the University where that cyberstalker Michael Dettmers coaches hockey to warn them that he is an 'apostate' and might, at any moment, start teaching 'apostacy' to the vulnerable minds of those college students on the hockey team. I mean that's awful. And what kind of team will they have if Michael is teaching that crap instead of coaching them on how to hit that rubber thingy into the net? I mean, it's criminal!

I'm not sure what 'apostate' means, but I know it's real bad, or else those premies/pwks who are working so hard to participate to Maharaji wouldn't have mentioned it. At first I thought that it was what Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were, but I don't think so, cause that's not bad and this is. My friend Lila thought I was saying 'a prostate' but I think that's something else having to do with men's private parts or something, so that's not it.

But the problem is, I don't know how to pronounce it, and because I want to serve Maharaji, and call right away, lest those vulnerable hockey players get polluted by 'apostacy' I need to know how to pronounce it.

Can someone call me right away at the pay phone near where I am living in the trunk of my car? It's (8122)555-7465. I mean, I'm trying to do participation and represent Maharaji here and I wouldn't want to sound like an idiot or anything.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 18:33:46 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: ***DON'T CALL THAT NUMBER!!!***
Message:
How could I ever be so stupid??

Sory, guys, this woman is nuts. As soon as I called the number, thinking I'd buy her a coke or some bubbletea or something, just to settle her down, the whole thing's a trap! Pauline Premie starts screaming into the phone 'You're harrassing me! How'd you get this number? This is worse than Cyberstalking, it's the real thing!' and -- click -- she's gone.

Next thing you know, the same two cops that questioned Salam are at my door, must have been less than five minutes later. Apparently, there are a whole bunch of us who've been stalking this girl. Roger, have they seen you yet? Something about you recruiting over state lines. I don't know, I wasn't really listening. Got all confused once I heard they're looking for Pat too. Apparently they say he wore a disguise and tried to kidnap her or lure her to his homosexual apartment!

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 00:56:36 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: I still want you to be in my movie, Pauline
Message:
Pauline, I can help you out. I'm right now in the middle of filming a new art film and there's a perfect part for you. I know you're right for the part. It's been written for you. All you have to do is take off your clothes and act naturally and show some gratitude.

Call me hon. I can make you a star.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:38:38 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Hey Rog
Message:
Talking of film scripts, I responded to your answer way back down the page (after the armed and dangerous post)

It's so far back I suggest taking a map, compass, supply of good buds, a case of Pat's red wine, a torch, a writing pad and a tent with you!
SC

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 02:03:49 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: thank you sc
Message:
Happy to hear you enjoyed my writing. It was in that transitional stage, you know, before i transformed to a cow and all.
Of course Ophelia contributed many of the other chapters and some other good writing from , well the credits were mentioned.
Roger left out a few of mine about premie suicide. but that's cool it was very dark.
I think it was an experiment in chain writing, some of the first i had ever done so it was fun.
Glad you liked it.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 22:09:08 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Selene, I didn't leave out anything...
Message:
it might have gotten lost or something, but nothing was left out intentionally by me. Oh no! All of it was gem-like precious.

Sorry for not responding to your email, but things have been really intense at work and now all of this.

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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 18:32:04 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: no biggie, I didn't check
Message:
I just glanced at it. As for email I think it was my response to the crisis before the last before the last.
So that was then. And as you said, there is this. eeesh.
Hope you are doing OK.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:31:12 (EDT)
From: Thelma the Church Lady
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Pauline call me. You can crash on my floor.
Message:
Just phone 1-800-dominatrix and I'll let you crash for the night and, if you just help me with my phone-sex business, I'll let you have a bowl of brown rice and lentils too.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:50:52 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Thelma the Church Lady
Subject: Pauline, no one should be homeless...
Message:
If you can find me in the Green Mountains you are welcome to pitch a tent in my back yard.

Even in a tent you can set up an alter to the lard, sing arti (only if it's not to loud, so I don't hear it).

Beware though, we have many wild animals here: bears, fishers, coyotes, coydogs, red foxes, moose, grey wolves, and of course, my attack cats.

I know you need a place to crash, and even though the first signs of autumn are here, you still have a few weeks to get through this period of loss.

All you have to do is call 1-888-not-cult, and you can reach me.

Much love,
Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:37:44 (EDT)
From: sushi
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: here Pauline
Message:
a·pos·tate
n.
One who has abandoned one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.

I tried to call you and couldn't get through.

The Lord is raising! Aleluya!

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:26:18 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: look what you made me do.
Message:
I used a dictionary to find the word. This is gonna cost you .

apostate n. One who apostatizes. a. Unfaithful to creed or principle; rebel, rebellious.

sorry about the rest, can't help you. Not my field.

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