Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Aug 23, 2001 To: Aug 27, 2001 Page: 3 of: 5


Deborah -:- Response from Cyberangels re:CAC -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:22:29 (EDT)
__ salam -:- Re: Response from Cyberangels re:CAC -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:40:59 (EDT)
__ __ Silvia -:- don't agree with you -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:08:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ Salam -:- Am not asking you to -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 23:50:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Rick -:- Re: Am not asking you to -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:45:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Silvia -:- that's better Salam -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:22:36 (EDT)
__ Selene -:- thanks Deborah -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:27:35 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Re: Hi Selene -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:35:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- i read recently -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:51:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Saucy -:- hey selene (ot) -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 00:04:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- hey hey ot -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 00:41:49 (EDT)

Jim -:- Talk about gutsy -- spy on the Taliban! -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:08:02 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Talk about gutsy -- from Lifes Great -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 03:46:57 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- PS -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 03:54:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ SC:( -:- PS Patprick -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 04:23:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Curioser and curioser -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 04:29:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- OOps typo - SC read Red Nightie ages ago -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 04:32:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- 4 yrs and 35 -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 10:14:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- You're a weasel, Cerise -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:26:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- Ok Clownface, you set the table -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 10:01:58 (EDT)

Way -:- My letter to Elan Vital -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 17:34:43 (EDT)
__ Silvia -:- Excellent point -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 23:21:35 (EDT)
__ Marianne -:- Your letter -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:46:27 (EDT)
__ such -:- employer/employee blackmail + outing bites! [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:00:17 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Thanks, Way, you spoke for me too -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:51:04 (EDT)
__ salam -:- Re: My letter to Elan Vital -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:47:43 (EDT)

Jim -:- theism stock through roof, God shares tumble -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 16:56:39 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Make that 'Atheism' (sheesh!) -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 16:58:26 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- More good entheogenic studies -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 04:14:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ ham -:- Got any www's for those Pat? -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 08:19:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- You look dehydrated, ham -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:10:29 (EDT)
__ __ Richard -:- You can easily edit posts -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:29:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: You can easily edit posts -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:40:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- ::limited opportunity:: -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:25:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Thank you :) [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 23:15:53 (EDT)

Silvia -:- Real names -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:59:16 (EDT)
__ michael donner -:- Re: Real names -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:43:46 (EDT)
__ __ bill burke -:- caca is Mili-armed only with keyboard in Croatia [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:36:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- caca is Mili-armed only with keyboard in Croatia -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:36:24 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: Real names - thanks Donner -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:53:36 (EDT)
__ JohnT -:- on the other hand -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 18:08:01 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Quit over-reacting -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:08:25 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Re: Real names adn CAC/BS -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:01:06 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- PS: EV monitor re CAC/BS -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:07:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Pat, you're a liar! -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:37:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- As Sc/Whitla said on LG -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:42:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ SC -:- Hey that's a bit low Thelma/Conlon -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 00:57:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Excuse me ? -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:49:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- It's raining here too -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:04:37 (EDT)

Jim -:- Is there still a forum archive search engine? -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:56:01 (EDT)
__ JohnT -:- Search all the Forum archive search engine? -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 17:24:18 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Is there still a forum archive search engine? No -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:59:23 (EDT)
__ __ Salam -:- wrong answer. the correct anser is yes. -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:52:36 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- Thanks, Pat -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:04:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Pat, please check email -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:31:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Will do -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:32:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Hey Sherlock jst tell Watson what you're onto -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:11:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Thanks -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:34:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: Thanks -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 16:29:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Thanks -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 16:59:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- :: I'll see what I can do :: [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 17:10:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- ::here you go Jim:: -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 19:13:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Thanks much, Chris -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 19:21:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: Thanks much, Chris -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 19:58:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- ::my first post on EPO:: -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:00:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) channeling Watson -:- OK Sherlock I will investigate [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:36:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- PS answered your email. Now really got to go [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:38:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- PS Jim, I have to go now -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:31:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- God that sounds good! -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:37:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: Thanks, Pat -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:10:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- :: wget gets it :: -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 16:17:03 (EDT)

Joe -:- Attacks by Maharaji Cult Members -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 13:13:42 (EDT)
__ bill burke -:- MILI is in fact Gay and caca is his. -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:47:34 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- careful, Bill, you'll end up in deep caca -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 04:47:07 (EDT)
Roger eDrek -:- Re: Attacks by Maharaji Cult Members -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 16:28:28 (EDT)
__ bill burke -:- Hell Drek, put your site in MY name, I dont care. [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:50:22 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Good post, Rog -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 17:11:09 (EDT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Jai Satchitanand, Jim! -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 17:37:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ Silvia -:- anything even killing -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 23:43:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Re: anything even killing -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 00:48:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- I'm glad -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:20:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ a 0 a ji -:- Re: I'm glad -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:40:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- I hear you -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:53:45 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Re: Attacks by Maharaji Cult Members -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 13:59:02 (EDT)
__ __ Bob -:- Re: Attacks by Maharaji Cult Members -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:06:23 (EDT)
__ __ L-L-L -:- Re: Homophobia -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:04:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Re: Homophobia -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:36:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Homophobia and CAC -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:26:12 (EDT)

Peg -:- Thankyou -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 10:56:57 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Thankyou, Peg, for the few gems you've posted -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 13:51:18 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Euphoria = Your Newfound Freedom -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 12:48:47 (EDT)
__ __ RichMandrake -:- Ironic, Isn't it Richard?? -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 02:14:45 (EDT)
__ Loaf -:- hear hear !! [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 11:22:57 (EDT)

Salam -:- Gerry. What's your e-mail? -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 09:32:06 (EDT)
__ gerry -:- Re: Gerry. What's your e-mail? -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 10:59:42 (EDT)

Julian -:- Maharaji is a danger to children -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 06:16:30 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Why CD removed your post -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:01:43 (EDT)
__ __ CD -:- Re: Why CD removed your post -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:01:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Gerry, would you please block CD? -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:19:15 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- ...and other living things. ') -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 13:47:32 (EDT)
__ don puerco -:- Re: Maharaji is a danger to children -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 12:31:48 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- 1000 per cent wrong, Mr. Pig -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:24:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ don puerco -:- Re: 1000 per cent wrong, Mr. Pig -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 04:57:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- I hear you, yes, BUT ...... -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 11:01:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Thanks for saying that, Porky -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 05:18:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ don puerco -:- Re: Thanks for saying that, Porky -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 05:30:58 (EDT)
__ __ Richard -:- Thanks DP but... -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 13:01:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ don puerco -:- Re: Thanks DP but... -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 05:28:02 (EDT)
__ Peg -:- Re: Maharaji is a danger to children -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 09:55:41 (EDT)

Name withheld-Fear of Rawat Cult -:- and SOME are very dangerous -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 05:19:04 (EDT)
__ don pueco -:- Re: and SOME are very dangerous -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 12:34:08 (EDT)
__ Peg -:- NOT MEANINGLESS -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 10:12:12 (EDT)
__ __ Chuck S. -:- Agree, NOT MEANINGLESS -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:44:16 (EDT)
__ __ gerry -:- Very well said, Peg -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 11:34:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- :: well said my ass -- speak for yourselves :: -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:05:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- regarding therapy etc -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:35:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Chuck S. -:- Good post... -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:14:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- hey thanks Chuck and all -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:23:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Re: hey thanks Chuck and all -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:15:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- oh -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:19:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: oh - aha! -:- Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:43:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- Some of us started having -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:08:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Well spoken, Selene -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:57:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ eb -:- Re: Well spoken, Selene -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 17:45:37 (EDT)

Pat:C) -:- Another pearl of Maharajism wisdom -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 05:02:21 (EDT)
__ don puerco -:- Re: Another pearl of Maharajism wisdom -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 12:01:28 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- is this also just nice poetry, puerco? -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:36:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ don hanu rain -:- Re: is this also just nice poetry, puerco? -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 05:09:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Okay you got me, Porky -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 05:25:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ don puerco -:- Re: Okay you got me, Porky -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 05:48:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Porky, you're an honest man -:- Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 05:58:40 (EDT)
__ Loaf -:- Re: Another pearl of Maharajism wisdom -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 07:31:04 (EDT)
__ __ cq -:- Loaf! where've you been? -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 10:48:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ Loaf -:- I been lurking... -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 11:21:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Loaf, I woke up to your words this am -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 13:23:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Re: Loaf, I woke up to your words this am -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:06:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Loaf, you're a cupcake as the say in Dixie -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:18:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- is a cupcake like beefcake ? [nt] -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:34:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Is a cupcake like beefcake ? -:- Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:47:58 (EDT)


Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:22:29 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Response from Cyberangels re:CAC
Message:
So this is the advice from Cyberangels, the link you see on the CACa site. I have included the portion of the email that is relevant to all of you who have or continue to post here.

So, please, heed the advice seriously.

CyberAngels Net Patrol:

We are an all-volunteer help program, and can give you information about how to avoid becoming a cyberstalking victim, and how to surf more safely.

Sometimes we can also help you identify your stalker, and help you deintensify the situation. You should always, though, in addition to seeking
our help or the help of other groups, contact your local law enforcement agency directly, and immediately. Cyberstalkers can become offline stalkers, and this is all about your safety.

If there is an indication that the stalker has your home address or telephone number, or perhaps other information that would allow them to find
you offline, you should report this immediately to your local law enforcement agency. We will not agree to help you, until you have confirmed that you have done that.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:40:59 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: Response from Cyberangels re:CAC
Message:
please post the url. I don't want to go to cacas website to find it. Got your mail. Will answer. Meanwhile take it easy. It is not worthwhile to spent your energy on chasing an illuosion like Guru Maharaji. Leave some for living,

be happy

Salam

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:08:08 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: don't agree with you
Message:
Why not try to find who is behind CAC? I think it wouldn't hurt to write complaining to authorities and following with Cyberangels at all. In fact, I think is what is appropiate, if not to send a message for future possible attacks.

Are we chickens like them?

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 23:50:29 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Am not asking you to
Message:
Am not asking anyone.

The people who are behind cybershit are:

Boris and his wife Cat.

Others could be:

Cat Wiezel
Charles
Wango Tango
Maharaji
other premie wnakers that did work for Pia.

There is no secret here. am not interesred in the individaul but the overall picture.

The site will go into the record book as the most offensive site on the Internat. I will make sure that they wished they never started it.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:45:39 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Re: Am not asking you to
Message:
CAC is definitely not the most offensive web site on the Internet.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:22:36 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: that's better Salam
Message:
yeap.

The (CACa) site will go into the record book as the most offensive site on the Internat. I will make sure that they wished they never started it.

I post it at the Spanish forum.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:27:35 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: thanks Deborah
Message:
and I agree we should keep this in mind. At least they answered!
Hope things are OK. I'm saving your post.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:35:38 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Re: Hi Selene
Message:
So I told you the teacher gave me three extensions for my paper because of the cyberstalking incident. Well, it was suppose to be done yesterday by 10:00 a.m.

I only started the paper (3000 words) at 9:45 a.m.

So, I phoned the teacher and told him I didn't (couldn't) do the paper as promised and was willing to accept the consequences. I told him I would type the paper without researching until I heard from him. He called me a few hours later (while I was typing) and told me everything was OK, to bring over what I had in another hour.

I never did the research. I just typed free-style and barely proof-read it because I was still typing till the very end of the time limit. And it was only 2100 when I finished.

Good news: he emailed me and told me it was a real good paper and gave me 30/35. Go figure.

Lucky eh? Good teachers rule!

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:51:45 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: i read recently
Message:
Luck is when preparation meets opportunity.
Good for you! And keep on. I'm going to go watch a movie now.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 00:04:31 (EDT)
From: Saucy
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: hey selene (ot)
Message:
I fixed up the idiot for you on AG2.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 00:41:49 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Saucy
Subject: hey hey ot
Message:
will reply over there. Or in email
I liked Chocolat
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:08:02 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Talk about gutsy -- spy on the Taliban!
Message:
Check out the videos. This was an amazingly risky move. The journalist, Sairi Shah, who seems to be the daughter of famous spiritual poet and translator, Idires Shah, gets into Afhganistan, has to deal with the Taliban, horrifying enough, then -- get this -- dresses up like an Afghani woman and takes a tiny video camera on into that hell. If only the clips were longer but it's still really something.
[ Spy on the Taliban ]
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 03:46:57 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Talk about gutsy -- from Lifes Great
Message:
Yes, that lady must have hidden her camera next to her cajones.

I can't find your post where you ask for quotes about what premies are saying on LG about CACapoo. I'm too tired. It was so busy with all the people coming to gawk at the pornographic gay drugtaking cyberstalker. Actually the thing that shocked them the most was that I was dumb enough to admit that I was once in a cult.

I did look and started to save some posts (can't you even read LG? Totally verboten by the forum fuhrer?) and couldn't bring myself to go over them and format them for posting. Really tragically infantile babble except for some genuine stuff by Carlos (whom you should not lump in with the anonymous premie trolls no matter how much you dislike his new age stuff. He is as honest as the day he was born and almost as naive.)

My old pal, Cosmic Traveller (whom I first met when he and I and Pauline Premie were living on a campsite in tents in Malibu in 78) wrote:

''Steve, how can anybody be sure that this CAC is not some looney exes posing as premies just so they can start some **** peace and love, CT''

I answered: So, Cos do you still think exes did CAC?

Here's what they say about me:

....posted thousands of defamatory messages about us, have called our employers, taken anonymous ads against us in the press, sent us email viruses, fabricated documents bearing our names, doctored our photographs, and threatened us of violence and even death. All this because we chose to follow these teachings (of Maharaji.)

Conlon presents himself as a friendly, flamboyant, jocular character and boasts of being a restaurateur, but it does not take much pressure for the nastier aspects of his personality to emerge.

He harasses innocent people over the net, anonymously displays pornographically-doctored photographs of various people. he seems to take great pleasure in 'outing' private persons as gay or lesbian, even though they are not and claims to have homosexual liaisons with men who are happily married.

He offers no substantiation for these stories, and even if they were any truth whatsoever in them, Conlon's behaviour in disclosing such private matters without consent is thoroughly reprehensible.

Conlon shows an unrestrained pre-occupation with all matters of a sexual nature, and seems to take particular delight in expressing the more bizarre fields of personal preferences.

He provides evidence of his own use of hard drugs and, in his more heated moments, shows pronounced paranoid tendencies.

If you need assistance to protect yourself from this individual you may: File a 'Cyber 911 report' with Cyberangels. Contact your police department to file a complaint. Contact the FBI (in case of death threats) Tell us what you know about this individual.

To this day, Conlon continues to surf the net, 'stirring up shit' that he single-handedly creates. It is time that Conlon's alleged cyberstalking gets exposed. Help us inform the San Francisco community of his cyberactivities. Help us bring him to justice.

SC butted in with some inanity to which I replied:

I forgot to tell my old pal, Cos, that they also published my photo (awful pic) phone number, address and a photo of my restaurant. Thank god that we don't have any nutty premies like Mahatma Fakiranand living in San Francisco or else I'd also have my brains bashed out with a hammer like Pat Halley.

But I'm one of the lucky ones. I'm my own boss. They also mentioned that Way was gay and that his employee should be contacted and gave his employee's name and phone number. And Way is a polite and peaceful man not a ''shit-stirrer'' like me. ;)

I would have like to have made a few more jokes but had to resist the temptation as most LGers seem to suffer from irony deficiency.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 03:54:33 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: PS
Message:
Just looked in again and found this new post from SC/Marolyn/cerise:

Had a look at your site salam. It's coming on well. I did the poll! I'm still undecided about the long long columns though. A bit annoying. Maybe links would be better but of course, there's always that spacing problem with any kind of text publishing, especially on a webpage. I really liked the tribute to Pia, a good touch which gives a nice ambient balanced feel. There's one spelling mistake, if you wouldn't mind. It's in the line 'Maharaji mentioned her passsing at the program.''

If you could remove the extra 's'. Great.

I'm really looking forward to when you're 'back in the K and M loop' so to speak, because you'll be a very helpful html and website design dude. I'd like to see Pia's site completely upgraded for example, but there's a shortage of html experts with time on their hands.


cheers,


SC

PatC hater of snakes - I rest my case.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 04:23:14 (EDT)
From: SC:(
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: PS Patprick
Message:
No Conlon...... No I say! Please, Pat.....Oh pat.....NO!

Back dog........ back I say!!!!

No PatrIck Conlon...... No I say! Please, Pat.....Oh pat.....NO!

Back dog........ back I say!!!!

Don't fret Patprick, no-one's forgotten

Browser Type: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; CNETHomeBuild03171999; DigExt)

:(

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 04:29:52 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: SC:(
Subject: Curioser and curioser
Message:
SC's response to eDrek
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 04:32:56 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: OOps typo - SC read Red Nightie ages ago
Message:
SC read Red Nightie ages ago

How many ages ago, SC? How long have you been reading expremies and how many aliases have you had?

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 10:14:33 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: 4 yrs and 35
Message:
The E-Drek website is one of the first M based sites I ever visited in 1999. Despite it's tasteless nature, I found the writing irresistible and extremely clever.

Why are you cutting bits of my conversations with other people, posting them elsewhere and then mocking them. Hoping your admirers will tear them to pieces?

Are you implying I'm trying one on Roger? Lying perhaps, spinning a yarn to suck him in? I couldn't be being honest now could I? You have a corrupt side to you Pat. Sick.

But it's odd behaviour. You've just publicly apologised for your past stupidity, grovelled to those who kicked your arse and then you get straight back into it. Why? Not enough attention - STILL?

You did the same sneaky trick with my post to salam (boy you must be REAL busy with that build up to Labour week).

For your info, salam asked me if I wanted to host a page on his site. I said I'd have to check the site out first. So I did. Then I gave him my feedback.

You gonna try and put a spin on that one?

Very poor form Patrick that will win you no real friends or admirers.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:26:11 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: You're a weasel, Cerise
Message:
If you wanted to be trusted you went about it the wrong way. I personally wouldn't let you babysit my dogs.
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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 10:01:58 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Ok Clownface, you set the table
Message:
I've eaten already pal

SATISFIED :)

Not shitting my pants over the second most stupid thing I've ever done in my life.

Still, you wanted attention right? Well, you're famous Patty.
It happened for ya!
Never mind that it's for the wrongest reasons imaginable. But while you're not taking it out on people like me you can pass your back around F6, see if there's any more pats left for ya.

Cos when all the hero bravado bullshit dies down it's you who wakes up and remembers the doggie doo you're lying in.

Don't blame cerise fella, she'll laugh as long as she wants.

You could learn from her.

She knows when to shut the fuck up.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 17:34:43 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: All
Subject: My letter to Elan Vital
Message:
I sent this letter to Elan Vital August 25, 2001

Dear Elan Vital PR:

I am writing this letter as a follow-up to the email I have already sent you. I am writing in regard to the new website stopcyberstalkers.org which has recently been established by a few of your members. My name is included on a list of "alleged cyberstalkers" along with my place of employment and the name and email address of my supervisor.

I am requesting that you contact that website management and instruct them to remove all of my employment information. I also request that they remove all quotes attributed to me that have been purposefully misquoted, and there are several.

So far you have officially stated on your own website that you have no control over this matter. If it is true that you cannot control the people responsible, then I request that you make a statement on your own website directed to your membership that they should not publish on the Internet any individual's employment and other personal information designed to harass those individuals, making it clear that you are including stopcyberstalkers.org and any other websites disigned to defend your organization.

The only reason I am included on the list of cyberstalkers is that I have posted messages on the website ex-premie.org, which is in opposition to the leader of your organization, known as Maharaji or Prem Pal Singh Rawat.

I made the mistake of posting to ex-premie.org from my computer at work. My employer, a university library, is now understandably unhappy that I have placed the university in a position where its name is published on the Internet in such an unsavory way. I apologize to my employer.

I became a follower of Maharaji in 1975 and decided to leave in 1997. Since then, I have learned many things about Mr. Rawat that I find objectionable. These objections have been outlined on ex-premie.org. I have repeately called for a reasonable and respectful dialogue between current and former devotees about these concerns. Unfortunately, the dialogue as become unseemly and disrespectful.

None of the concerns of ex-premie.org have been acknowledged by Elan Vital as being reasonable. Instead, you have posted official responses to our concerns designed to discount them altogether. Such denials have only fanned the flames of dissent and frustration.

My suggestion at this point in time is that all parties involved recognize our common ideals that attracted us to "Knowledge" in the first place, ideals such as love for the truth and loving support for each other. If there is any chance for respectful dialogue between us, let's begin it now.

I call upon Elan Vital to do what it can to help find lasting resolution. If the objections of ex-premies could be noted and acknowledged in a real manner, then many ex-premies could move on in peace. And, on the other side, if ex-premies could restrict their rhetoric to one that is more respectful for current premies, then I believe that the series of hateful interaction could actually come to an end.

Mr. Rawat imself could help the situation greatly by addressing one of the biggest concerns of his former students. We are chagrined that Mr. Rawat continues to present himslef as the unique living Master and that his path of "Knowledge" is the only true means to human fulfillment. If he were to acknowledge that all people are capable of achieving life's highest ideals, even if they choose not to follow him, then I believe that many of is ex-followers would be appeased. Of course I cannot and do not speak for all ex-premies, buy I myself would be relieved.

In hope of a dialogue that we can all be proud of,

Sincerely,

William E. Williams

p.s. I plan to send a copy of this letter to my employer, to ex-premie.org, and to some of my personal friends.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 23:21:35 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Excellent point
Message:
Hi Way,

Sorry to see what CAC did to you. :(

Good letter!

This is really good. I find EV statements full of bologna: They did avoided naming CAC.

So far you have officially stated on your own website that you have no control over this matter. If it is true that you cannot control the people responsible, then I request that you make a statement on your own website directed to your membership that they should not publish on the Internet any individual's employment and other personal information designed to harass those individuals, making it clear that you are including stopcyberstalkers.org and any other websites disigned to defend your organization.

Take care

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:46:27 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Way
Subject: Your letter
Message:
Way, could you please email me?

Thanks, Marianne

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:00:17 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: employer/employee blackmail + outing bites! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:51:04 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Thanks, Way, you spoke for me too
Message:
Yes, I think a lot of reconciliation would happen if Rawat simply came out and said that he is not the one true way. Pun intended.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:47:43 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re: My letter to Elan Vital
Message:
great post.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 16:56:39 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: theism stock through roof, God shares tumble
Message:

Is God all in our heads?

The quest for spirituality has moved to the brain in scientific circles, MICHAEL VALPY reports. One researcher has designed a helmet that triggers religious experiences, another scans the grey matter of praying Franciscan nuns and Buddhists

By MICHAEL VALPY

Saturday, August 25, 2001 – Page F7

God lives somewhere in the temporal and parietal lobes of the brain, along with aliens, angels and dead relatives. To find them at home, put on Michael Persinger's God helmet and ring their doorbells with a magnetic buzz.

This is neurotheology -- the scientific mapping, understanding and accessing of the location of spirituality in the brain. Even more boldly, it is an exploration of what it takes to prod God into action.

Persinger, head of the Neuroscience Research Group at Sudbury's Laurentian University, is one of a growing number of scientists around the world exploring what physically occurs in the brain during a religious or mystic experience and how to imitate the stimuli that cause those experiences to occur.

He uses a modified motorcycle helmet or a head-circlet device nicknamed the Octopus that contain solenoids -- coils of wire -- which create a weak but complex magnetic field over the brain's right-hemisphere parietal and temporal lobes. The magnetic field is designed to mimic the brain's neuron firing patterns, sending electrical stimuli to specific brain areas.

The parietal lobes are at the top back of the brain and contain the sensory processes -- touch, taste, pressure, pain, temperature and so on -- and language functions. The temporal lobes are just above the ears and are responsible for memory, meaning and decoding sounds and other experiences.

Persinger reports that at least 80 per cent of his subjects experience a presence beside them in the room, a sentient intelligent being, or -- if they are inclined to atheism -- a oneness with the universe that is, of course, a much-yearned-for Jungian archetypal image.

Many weep, feeling themselves in the presence of God.

One of Persinger's favourite descriptions of the experience came several months ago from a visiting New York psychiatrist. 'He called it a resolution of the binaries. Very clever.

And very postmodern.

On the other hand, a British psychologist who donned the helmet encountered something more spooky. After about 10 minutes, she felt like she was swaying in a hammock.

Then she felt two hands grab her by the shoulders and pull her upright (although she was still lying in a reclining chair). Then she experienced strong emotions of anger followed by equally strong emotions of fear and the sense of her leg being stretched up a wall.

Persinger's volunteers also have experienced angels, dead relatives and 'cartoon-like characters,' and he has theorized that people who report being kidnapped by aliens may have been subjected to natural magnetic-field stimuli of the type he creates in his lab. He has found a mild correlation between alien kidnapping reports, UFO sightings and seismic activity.

Other scientists are blazing their own trails to religion's abode in the brain.

Researchers at the University of Pennsylvania have conducted brain imaging on Buddhist meditators and Franciscan nuns at prayer, and found, as has Persinger, astonishing altered activity in the parietal and temporal lobes. More precisely, in the limbic system that lies deep within the temporal lobes, whose normal job is to label significant things such as the sight of your child's face.

Neurosurgeons have discovered that stimulating the brain's hippocampus region causes people from Western cultures to experience the presence of angels.

Scientists at the University of California in San Diego are studying why religious experiences sometimes accompany epileptic seizures. At Duke University, they are looking into the link between the brain, hallucinogenic drugs and religious experience.

This quest for God and the heavenly host in a bit of grey matter has not been received uncritically. Persinger and his colleagues have been accused -- mainly, but not entirely, by the Christian right -- of crass atheism, scientific irresponsibility, overzealousness, a thirst for headlines and attempting the final triumphant replacement of religion with science.

Nancy Murphy, a professor of Christian philosophy at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, Calif., was quoted in a recent Washington Post article as saying the scientific exploration 'reinforces atheistic assumptions and makes religion appear useless. If you can explain religious experience purely as a brain phenomenon, you don't need the assumption of the existence of God.'

That same article quoted Persinger as saying: 'Religion is a property of the brain, only the brain and has little to do with what's out there' -- a quote reprinted in several newspapers, especially across the U.S. South.

But in a long conversation with me, he said carefully that his findings do not have any bearing on the existence or non-existence of God. He stressed that science is the value-free pursuit of the unknown regardless of what values scientists may carry.

Unquestionably, the research of Persinger and others will lead to surmises about the relationship between religion and subjective experience -- whether, let's say, Jesus, Moses, Abraham and others were experiencing some abnormal or altered brain activity when they talked to God. But neuroscientists poking around the brain for God and the soul have declared fervently they are not pursuing godlessness.

'The brain is the hardware through which religion is experienced,' said Daniel Batson, a University of Kansas psychologist who studies the effect of religion on people. 'To say the brain produces religion is like saying a piano produces music.'

Or that a kiss is a mere exchange of saliva, breath and possibly germs.

Several years ago, Persinger started out his research looking for a different phenomenon, exploring the brain for the sense of self, a subject of much interest to him in the clinical treatment of depression. Along the way, he became immersed in the brain's spiritual centre.

Scientists knew that decreased electrical activity in the parietal lobes -- brought on by, among other things, meditation or prayer -- lessened the distinction between 'self' and 'other.' In other words, it stimulated the feeling of oneness with the universe, or reunion with God, or 'resolution of the binaries.'

Scientists also knew that increased electrical activity in the limbic system shouts out to the rest of the brain that something important is happening -- although what it actually shouts out, when it's highly active, may be a little unusual.

So when you put together the decrease in activity in one important part of the brain with an increase in activity in another important part, what is likely to happen is a mystic experience, an out-of-body experience, a meeting with God, a sense of a sentient presence right beside you. Or something like that. Persinger suggests it's really one half of the brain being superaware of the other half, which normally it isn't.

And the importance of the experience is going to be proclaimed loudly and clearly courtesy of 'flashbulb memory' controlled by the limbic system, which is the phenomenon that leads to people recall where they were, what they were doing, who they were with and how they were dressed on really important occasions such as the day Diana, Princess of Wales, died.

What had been missing was a way to make the neurons fire -- or to simulate their firing -- to create the condition. Enter Persinger and his helmet. 'Without the computer, we couldn't have done it,' he said. The computer was needed to figure out the very complex levels of intensity of the electromagnetic charges that would mimic the firing neurons.

Exactly how the neurons operate on their own is still on the edge of neuroscience's frontiers. The next stage of Persinger's research, in fact, is to listen to neurons firing in various parts of the brain and quickly reconstruct the patterns.

Incidentally, individual descriptions of the magnetic buzz vary considerably because they are shaped by three factors: First, the buzz is directed at someone in a particular setting. The experience is going to be different depending on whether she is in a laboratory or her own bedroom.

Second, the person has to apply language to the experience, which means drawing words out of the memory bank of one's own culture and individual past. One can only describe something in relation to what one knows or has already experienced. Hence, a Buddhist is not going to give the experience a Christian interpretation.

Third, the way the experience is related is going to be shaped by the social context: You'll tell it differently to a priest than to a psychologist, to your spouse than to your boss.

Persinger says there are positive data from several years of clinical research in which the magnetic-field devices have been used to treat depression in victims of what are known as closed-head injuries -- injuries where there is no fracture, no loss of consciousness and no apparent trauma but where severe depression that is resistant to drugs and psychotherapy subsequently emerges.

A common facet of this depression is a sense of loss of self. Sufferers have the memory of who their 'previous self' is and they know it's not their 'present self.' Persinger said the magnetic-field device has been effective in reclaiming the 'previous self.'

He says there should also be an application of the magnetic stimuli to pain reduction (you whack your finger with a hammer and it's your brain that tells you it hurts) and death anxiety (he has theorized that the same brain activity that produces mystic experiences also produces near-death experiences).

Beyond treatment of specific conditions, institutions such as Harvard University's Mind/Body Clinic have known for years that spirituality is hard-wired to health, that the brain has enormous influence over all other organs, that people who have a sense of oneness of body, spirit and mind are healthier people gambolling down the path to longer and happier life.

Persinger talks about people maybe having one of his magnetic field devices in a corner of their homes, much like people in Eastern cultures have a corner for meditation. 'The Wall Street Journal asked me about marketability,' he says.

Like, no TV tonight, just a little helmet after dinner to elevate the soul.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 16:58:26 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Make that 'Atheism' (sheesh!)
Message:
Imagine Maharaji condoning premies participating in this kind of research ....
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 04:14:53 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: More good entheogenic studies
Message:
Wish I had the time to write a decent response about the stuff I've been reading about entheogens. You'll probably hate it anyway because it does also involve yoga. But it seems that those same parts of the brain can be stimulated just by concentrating on them. (eDrek wrote a post about that.)

Psychedelics also stimulate those parts of the brain. It is theorized that it is that part of the brain that houses the imagination - the sort of imagination that kids have when they believe in the games that they are playing and Santa and fairies and imaginary friends. The same part that sees hallucinations that appear real on psychedelics. The part that was stimulated by magic mushrooms to produce most religions, angels etc.

Now, combine brain-stimulating yoga with Maharajism and you have a recipe for madness.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 08:19:17 (EDT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Got any www's for those Pat?
Message:
Entheogens.
Never come across that before, got a def?

OT, you reckon that pic of yours was dodgy, got to www.fatjam.f2s.com/romfordunderground for some recent pics of trainspotters out on the town, the pic on the right just about says it all I reckon, and you think yours was bad!!!!

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:10:29 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: You look dehydrated, ham
Message:
Thanks for that. The pic of you under the G is cute but ooh boy yes, I would not like a pic of me snoring on the net.

I would have to search my history to find the links because I don't bookmark them just copy and paste stuff. One day I'll compile those notes. The word ''entheogen'' was coined by Charles Hayes for a book that he edited called ''Tripping.'' It means ''god-evoker.'' The book is great - fifty personal descriptions of tripping.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:29:10 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You can easily edit posts
Message:
At the bottom of each post you read, there is a (edit this message) feature which is way cool. If it's your post, you can change everything including headline. I've been tweaking my posts ever since Francesca pointed it out.

By the way, it could be used to mess with someone's mind a bit. When they object to some detail in the post, just change it and say you never said it. Revisionism at it's finest.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:40:50 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: You can easily edit posts
Message:
Yeah, I love the edit feature, I just used it 5 minutes ago.

Can you edit a post that's archived?

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:25:20 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: Mexico
Subject: ::limited opportunity::
Message:
Yeah, I love the edit feature, I just used it 5 minutes ago.

Can you edit a post that's archived?


---

No, and you can't edit posts once you've lost your IP address (as when you've lost modem-carrier, connected to an ISP that assigns IP addresses dynamically).

When you try to edit a message the system's decided you can't, one of the possible error messages reads as follows:

Sorry you do not have access or your IP number has expired...

Messages may only be edited in this manner soon after they are posted and only by the person who originaly posted it.

Administrators override (pwd):

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 23:15:53 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Thank you :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:59:16 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Real names
Message:
It wasn't a good idea for us to disclose our real names, correct? Who were those ex-premies asking us in those days to tell our real names?

I remember when Jim and others used to persuade ex-premies who used aliases to post with theirreal names. The caca members were working on their 'job' for a long time and used the names given. Do some of the exes appearing in their site never gave their real names at FV?

I'm slow and I do not read all posts.

I wish I didn't give my name.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:43:46 (EDT)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: Real names
Message:
o was one who encouraged everyone to use their real names and still do. has lots more power and validity...i continue to feel we have nothing to fear...cac included. i use my name and have used my home email address for all to see. i have skeltons in my closet like everyone so be it.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:36:17 (EDT)
From: bill burke
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: caca is Mili-armed only with keyboard in Croatia [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:36:24 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: bill burke
Subject: caca is Mili-armed only with keyboard in Croatia
Message:
and an ally who is an IT pro and gave him some inside info only available to anyone who knows anonymous posters IP#s such as Jondon and Edrek.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:53:36 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Re: Real names - thanks Donner
Message:
Nothing to fear but fear itself. Being open removes all fear.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 18:08:01 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: on the other hand
Message:
follow the link to my poems below and you will find my web site, resume (called in England a 'CV', stands for curiculum vitae) and all.

J'accuse!

Anyone can email me at work, or phone me there. It's almost as easy to contact Jim; Nigel; Katie H; Katie D; Janet and on and on and so on.

Our openness just makes the silly old CAC site look even more nasty and silly, I'd say. But I can understand it could freak a bod out.

He has no power!

JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:08:25 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Quit over-reacting
Message:
Silvia,

No, a much better way would have been for us all to hide behind masks forever just in case the big, bad cult resorted to a pathetic smear campaign. Give me a break! Dave over-reacted and you are too. And now I'm pissed off because he took that god-damned search engine with him. Shit!

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:01:06 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: Real names adn CAC/BS
Message:
Two of CAC's victims posted under aliases. Anonymity is no protection against an IT professional.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:07:18 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Pat:C)
Subject: PS: EV monitor re CAC/BS
Message:
Hi Glen (or whoever) I have emailed the CAC/BS url to hundreds of my premie friends and they are all horrified. If you agree that CAC/BS has done more harm to M than good by making it look like an malicious, conspiratorial cult then please email me and I will explain the BS to you and you can take it from there.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:37:40 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Pat, you're a liar!
Message:
You know as well as I do you don't have hundreds of premie friends. You don't even have hundreds of friends. In fact you have no friends now that CAC has outed you as a gay pornographer in league with French Communists, cross dressers and shady barristers. I'm sure you'll meet some nice people at the PWPTMPIOTI (People Who Post Too Much Personal Information On The Internet) 12 Step Meeting, though.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:42:18 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: As Sc/Whitla said on LG
Message:
''PatC lives in such a little pond. All he's got is his restaurant and the expremies.''

Well, I guess it is a small pond where I meet ten thousand new people every year and have maintained contact with most of my premie friends over 30 years. A much smaller pond than most. ;)

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 00:57:38 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Hey that's a bit low Thelma/Conlon
Message:
I've said much nicer things about you than that.

Why pick up that moldy old bit of cheese?

Talking of moldy, she's been a bit scarce lately.

Wonder why??

Ahh... dontcha just love the power of GUILT!!

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:49:43 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Excuse me ?
Message:
if you are talking about who I think you are, you'd better watch it.

I like women who don't shave their armpits. And I like neutered cats.

It's raining here.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 13:04:37 (EDT)
From: SC
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: It's raining here too
Message:
Ah the sweet sound of synchronicity!
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:56:01 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Is there still a forum archive search engine?
Message:
Anyone know how to find it? I need to see something.

Thanks (cough! cough!)

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 17:24:18 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Search all the Forum archive search engine?
Message:
Search all the Forum archives
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:59:23 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Is there still a forum archive search engine? No
Message:
Dave's engine disappeared. Here have a stiff shot of brandy with honey and lemon and don't forget to eat plenty of garlic, ginger and chilli peppers.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:52:36 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au
To: Pat:C)
Subject: wrong answer. the correct anser is yes.
Message:
wana know where it is. e-mail me. Please include $500 backhander money.

[cacas don't even try]

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:04:36 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Thanks, Pat
Message:
By the way, now that I'm up -- a bit -- I'll try to reply to your email. Thnik I'll drink a shot of fireball, first. Maybe throw some clothes on and crawl outside to get something to eat. Laurie had to run up island to show a house. Worse, my hotwater tap's stripped ...

whatever.

So, really, there's no more archive search engine? What's the point blabbing away of you can never find it again? I might have even had a line on a smoking gun, of sorts. Oh well....

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:31:02 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Pat, please check email
Message:
want to keep ball rolling
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:32:26 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Will do
Message:
Must go chop veggies for my fruits and nuts.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:11:43 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey Sherlock jst tell Watson what you're onto
Message:
and I'll help you search. Sorry about your hot water. Makes me realize you probably need a gooroo if you don't have indoor plumbing in India. Let's face it hot water is better than Hinduism.

From now on save all important posts as I do. I will also be saving other peoples' important posts until we have a new search engine.

If you are anywhere near the ocean go there. The ozone from the surf kills germs.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:34:19 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Thanks
Message:
I'm blocks from the ocean. Problem is, I'm only feet from my bed.

The post I'm curious about preceded your enlightenment, I believe. It concerns this part of my CAC profile:

Jim Heller ACKNOWLEDGES HAVING EMBEZZLED $18,000
WHEN HE WAS TREASURER OF A NOT-FOR PROFIT ORGANIZATION.

'I was losing steam. The trip was getting really boring and I stopped hiding the fact that I felt that way. I was also the …..….treasurer and, together with my assistant, Deb, who I was starting to 'hang out' with, I embezzeled $18,000 before Jack caught me. When he did, he called XXXX, one of ……xxxxxx's bloodless bigshot lackeys (and old friend of J.W.'s) and he directed Jack to literally hold me hostage in the ……… basement until Deborah came over with the money.

They couldn't find Deb for two days, the longest two days of my life. Quite frankly, Veep, I thought they were going to kill me. An hour later they came down with my breakfast. Yes, they roughed me up a bit. Anyway, they found Deb at the bus station, got the money and let us both go. So, there you have it. Assholes, huh?

Stole from ……….. and lived to tell about it.'

I need to see it in context.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 16:29:17 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Thanks
Message:
The post I'm curious about preceded your enlightenment, I believe. It concerns this part of my CAC profile:

Jim Heller ACKNOWLEDGES HAVING EMBEZZLED...

...I need to see it in context.


---

What forum was that on? Shouldn't be too hard to suck down the
entire forum archive to a fast connection, and just egrep for
a few key strings.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 16:59:16 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Re: Thanks
Message:
Chris,

It wasn't 5, 6 or 7. Maybe 3, maybe 4.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 17:10:41 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: Jim
Subject: :: I'll see what I can do :: [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 19:13:25 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: a0aji
Subject: ::here you go Jim::
Message:
http://www.ex-premie.org/archives/archive.cgi?arch=f3a8d#P04DW
May 18, 1998


---

---
--quote
---

---
--
Date: Sun, May 17, 1998 at 04:27:43 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Jack kicked me out (to VP)
Message:
VP,

You said:

I am confused. How did Jack give you an order?

---

---
- unquote
---

---
--

Compare the timestamps of when I began and when I posted
this. It's pretty easy to do. Just download everything
off of the forum archive page, unzip the individual files,
make a giant tarball of the entire mess (85 megs!) and then
use 'less' to search on 'bezz' (embezzle) and Bob's your uncle.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 19:21:18 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Thanks much, Chris
Message:
Thanks a lot for finding this. I'll email you further after I've checked a few things.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 19:58:10 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: chris@hafey.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Thanks much, Chris
Message:
Thanks a lot for finding this. I'll email you further after I've checked a few things.


---

You're welcome, Jim -- I had fun doing it. Kind of a virtuoso
performance for me!

Now I gotta go back to that machine and see if I can find my
very first post to EPO!

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:00:38 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: a0aji
Subject: ::my first post on EPO::
Message:
Thanks a lot for finding this. I'll email you further after I've checked a few things.


---

You're welcome, Jim -- I had fun doing it. Kind of a virtuoso
performance for me!

Now I gotta go back to that machine and see if I can find my
very first post to EPO!

---

Apparently, in mid-December, 1997, I found ex-premie.org for the
first time.

Looks like my first post to the Forum was this one:
_________________________________________________________________

Date: Sun, Jan 11, 1998 at 14:21:00 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To:
---

---
--
Subject: Ontology depletion zone
Message:
A person who successfully sifts through the info found on
www.ex-premie.org will (perhaps) come to an assessment of their own
personal ontology (set of things said to exist in one's world). When
they encounter this site, thier ontology (most often) would include
existance of the satguru. When they leave, having digested all that is
currently offered here (in static content, anyway) they're apt to
depart with a depleted ontology: the Universe they knew, minus one
satguru. That is sad -- very sad. Perhaps, then, this website is an
ontology depletion zone.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
_________________________________________________________________

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:36:54 (EDT)
From: Pat:C) channeling Watson
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: OK Sherlock I will investigate [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:38:04 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Pat:C) channeling Watson
Subject: PS answered your email. Now really got to go [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:31:34 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: PS Jim, I have to go now
Message:
and work on my evil porno site. b) Don't they deliver food there? Maybe I'll email you some delicious spicy sweet potato and corn chowder. God, I wish I could.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:37:31 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: God that sounds good!
Message:
No, I'm in a great little spot in Chinatown. (CAC, please note: I am not affiliated with any TRIAD gangs, opium dens or even late night majong games. Of course, I know, my denial itself is a little suspicious. Oh well, in the words of Gary Condit, 'nobody's perfect so mind your own business.')

Thnik I'll crawl out and get some noodles, chili plum sauce, lots of veggies and tofu.

Can't ride my bike, of course, until I'm better. Shit!

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:10:25 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Thanks, Pat
Message:
So, really, there's no more archive search engine? What's the point blabbing away of you can never find it again? I might have even had a line on a smoking gun, of sorts. Oh well....


---

I think you can point a web spider at the top link in the chain here,
and have it reap the site for you. There's also a way to do that
on Linux, or other *nix platforms. I think it's called 'wget'.

Someone with a fast network connection could archive the entire site
with wget, and then index the result.

Get well soon, Jim!

:::::::: No, I'm not volunteering ::::::::

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 16:17:03 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: a0aji
Subject: :: wget gets it ::
Message:
So, really, there's no more archive search engine? What's the point blabbing away of you can never find it again? I might have even had a line on a smoking gun, of sorts. Oh well....


---

I think you can point a web spider at the top link in the chain here,
and have it reap the site for you. There's also a way to do that
on Linux, or other *nix platforms. I think it's called 'wget'.

Someone with a fast network connection could archive the entire site
with wget, and then index the result.

:::::::: No, I'm not volunteering ::::::::


---

I tried wget -- it pulled about 14 megs off the hotboards site, in
about 20 minutes, including loueella (sp?) which is I think the new
AG and including premie something, which is probably Life's Grate.

There are ways to tailor wget so that it only pulls from subdirectories you specify, and no others (so it won't suck down
Life's Grate if you didn't want it to).

I think what's happening is that wget limits itself to a single
domain (www.hotboards.com, in this instance) by default, but does
not 'know' that Life's Grate is a different 'board' (since it has
no concept of such). So if anyone in any message links to any
other Hotboards board, wget sucks that one down, too (unless
you construct an rc file that tells it which directories you
are interested in).

From there, constructing a search capability is fairly straight-
forward, since now every html source file from Hotboards is on
your own machine.

It doesn't come free -- there's plenty of work to be done, to
make it go -- but it is not impossible, either.

There seemed to be some other odd things included, but the dataset
was so large (and my connection to the machine I used to do all
this, too slow .. netlag) I wasn't able to fully appreciate all
I saw. There was a file named for each participant, for one thing.

Don't worry -- it looks like those files were just error messages
when wget tried to access nonexistant profiles of each of us. I never
saw such a function, but if my understanding is correct, somewhere
on some page accessible to anyone is a link you click on to get a
profile of 'a0aji' (or whatever I type in the 'Your Name' field for
that message). It then tries to complete the request (for the
profile of user 'a0aji' which, of course, does not exist.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 13:13:42 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Attacks by Maharaji Cult Members
Message:
Thanks for the responses re homophobia in the Mahalraji cult. I didn't mean to imply that all premies are homophobic, clearly they aren't, and the premies I knew, pretty much all of which are ex-premies now, I do not believe are homophobic. But I don't think it is true of the premies who put together that website that is attacking former members of their cult.

My point was, why were particular ex-premies chosen to be victims of the attacks by the cult? I think clearly Way and Patrick were chosen because they are gay and have stated plublicly that they are, and therefore considered somewhat more vulnerable because of that.

First clue is that being gay is mentioned in both entries, very prominently, when it has nothing to do with what they have ever said about Maharaji.

Second, the inept investigators for that hate site put in all that stuff about 'the Pilsner Inn' in the attack on Patrick, because it is a known, but very gentle and innocuous from what I have been told, gay bar in San Francisco. Turns out it's a different Patrick who is the manager/owner there, but it gave them the opportunity to quote 'The Gay Guide to San Francisco' and make innuendos about the depravity that goes on there and connect it to Patrick, who is an out gay man. They have removed that section, obviously fearing the other Patrick,, now that they are aware they messed up.

Second, in regard to Way, the attack on him is clearly in regard to revealing his employer, and asking that rabid cult members contact his employer and mention whatever damaging stuff they think they can, and the fact that Way is gay is prominently mentioned, for no other apparent reason than to include that in contacts to his employer.

The goal here is apparently to try to get Way fired, or at least in trouble with his employer, and Way, being the upstanding person he is, has been completely honest with his employer and cut them off at the knees in that department.

Query, though, the cult might well know that Kansas does not have civil rights protections based on sexual orientation in employement, unlike California and some other states. They may well know that Way, for example, could be fired for being gay in Kansas and he has no legal recourse.

I note from Elan Vital's website, they have an anti-discrimination policy mentioned as follows:

Elan Vital supports each person’s freedom of choice with regard to their philosophical, political and religious convictions. It rejects all forms of illegal discrimination, including those pertaining to race, nationality, age or gender.

Note the glaring omission of any reference to sexual orientation. Is this just an oversight, given what we have heard about the homophobia Maharaji himself has exhibited in the past, based on the personal testimonies of individuals who have heard him say such stuff? Coincidence? Why have they not mentioned sexaul orientation in their policy.

Finally, many people have seen the extremely lame press release on the Elan Vital website in which Elan Vital desperately tries to separate itself from what its members are doing on the internet to private citizens in the name of Maharaji.

But Elan Vital has to get MUCH more specific before that is going to be seen as anything other than a self-serving puff piece.

Moreover, what about Maharaji? Is Maharaji going to say anything publicly about this? Note that the cult hate site CAC clearly mentions Maharaji, and says nothing whatsoever about Elan Vital. They clearly claim to be followers of Maharaji, followers of his teaching, very prominently, and yet we have heard no statement from Maharaji about whether he condones what they are doing or not. Silence from Maharaji in this situation, when the cult members who are running that site clearly pledge allegience ONLY to him and not to any organization like Elan Vital, is very telling.

What to you think?

Has anybody emailed Maharaji at his website about this? Has anybody gotten a response?

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:47:34 (EDT)
From: bill burke
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: MILI is in fact Gay and caca is his.
Message:
He knows the details of the expremies lives by all his involvement here. He knows Sir Davids life from all Sir Davids posts, and knows
our web sites like Patricks.
He has commented on his pink underwear long ago, and he is the one who
would know about the gay bar owner in San Francisco.
We should publically make threads taking Mili to task for each and every comment on that site of his.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 04:47:07 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: bill burke
Subject: careful, Bill, you'll end up in deep caca
Message:
Is Mili a real person or an internet fiction like Boris?
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 16:28:28 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Attacks by Maharaji Cult Members
Message:
At first I was very flattered by my CAC bio. Certainly, they have captured some of my finer comedic moments on the Forums even though these moments are clearly presented out of context for the sole purpose of defaming me.

And now as I further reflect on the CAC bio and their agenda to intimidate. CAC has posted employment information in a manner clearly intended to have people lose their livelihood. And I now realize that I am in serious jeopardy. In fact, I do work in a very sensitive environment where I definitely could lose my job and perhaps be unable to get work in my particular field for the rest of my life and my whole damn career that Maharaji always pooh-poohed is really down the drain. Yeah, a career that I started on late because I was a cult follower. And a career that I could lose because I have spoken out against a cult and a cult leader who is a greedy hypocrite. Ah, yes, there is poetic justice and full circle, isn't there?

As Joe points out the homophobic tendencies of Maharaji and others within the cult we again see so very clearly is that Maharaji doesn't give a shit about his followers and never has. All that he cares about is himself and whether he can acquire all the toys that he desires.

We've seen innocent children sexually molested and the perpetrators are merely given slaps on the wrist and shuffled off to the next town. We've been berated and cajoled to give our everything including our money, our time, our families, our careers, our futures, our minds, body and soul.

And what did we ever get in return? Nothing but lies and cover-ups because if we had only known how ugly and how x-rated it all was and the real man behind the curtains we all would have left long, long ago and Maharaji and Company would have been left high and dry.

Maharaji, you are ultimately responsible for this ugliness. It is your philosophy that has instilled this incredible elitist attitude in your followers. Consider the Mahatma Fakiranand and the Pat Halley incident where Pat Halley nearly loses his life and Fakiranand is spirited out of the country to avoid prosecution. Consider the Lord of the Universe documentary video where the WPC guy says, 'I'd slit his throat.' Consider yourself back then, weren't we all raving fanatics ready to carry out a holy jihad if anyone ever dared say anything against our beloved SatGuru who was our Lord of the Universe?

No, nothing has changed. Knowledge Lite? Bullshit! The message is still the same and that message is that Maharaji is God. Ok, Maharaji, if you are god and not a leaf moves without your saying so then you need to put an end to this CAC sickness. You need to talk to your legal counsel, Bob Jacobs, and make sure that you won't be held responsible for any consequences that might befall us.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:50:22 (EDT)
From: bill burke
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Hell Drek, put your site in MY name, I dont care. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 17:11:09 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Good post, Rog
Message:
I hope, for your sake, that whatever risk CAC's exposed you to never turns to an eventuality. There's a bit of a balancing here. On the one hand, the CAC profiles are a joke. For example, I know how many ways yours is off but, of course, it's your call if and when you want to set the record straight here. But, yes, they're a joke a million ways over. On the other hand, they weren't meant to be a joke. If CAC's ineffectual it won't be for want of trying but rather for sheer stupidity. In other words, the intent to harm is all there and, while we remind ourselves and each other, how dumb and even comical CAC is in large part, they've already done some irreparable damage and could have done far worse if they weren't such flailing silly buggers.

You know what struck me as really eerie, though, Rog? The way the premies reacted on LG. They were literally saying things like so long as this particular breath still feels great, then life's great and there's nothing else to think about! In other words, a complete, one hundred percent abdication of morality! If there's someone who can still go to LG (I'm blocked) who'd like to get one or two of those posts, they'd be something worth keeping.

Imagine that there were ex-premies and an internet when Mahatma Fakiranand tried to kill Pat Halley. Don't you think that these same premies would be saying the same thing: 'So long as you can still breathe, there's nothing to worry about'? You know, 'It's all maya anyway...' kind of thing?

And that of course got me thinking about Fakiranand himself. Don't you think he was meditating like a motherfucker before, during and after his crime? And the premie with him? And all involved as they drove Fakiranand to Chicago and then to Canada and then flew him out of the country? They probably got blissed out giving each other satsang in the car, for God's sake!

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 17:37:21 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jai Satchitanand, Jim!
Message:
no doubt all of the accessories to the Fakiranand/Halley crime were blissed out as would any of us at that time. When God is on your side and you're completely tuned into that that so-hung anything becomes possible.

Jai Satchitanand!

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 23:43:34 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: anything even killing
Message:
fanaticism to high degree can only lead down. The cult is falling

So, did you get fired or not? Was all a joke?

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 00:48:32 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: anything even killing
Message:
No, I didn't get fired. I hoped that the 'Pure Fiction' helped clarify that. However, I did tell my boss about it just in case he found out about it via other means.

This is shitty stuff.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:20:03 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: I'm glad
Message:
I read quick sometimes, in between brakes which sometimes makes me misunderstand what I read; I find out later...zzzzz

I'm glad you were not fired Rog. Yeah, is far more than shitty. I find it the whole thing scandolous to say the least but even the worst can carry good. CACa shows well the fanatic attitude of some premies and EV needs to address it. I like Way's letter to EV. I wonder if EV will include it in their site.

What are we, potato chips?

I want MY lord to talk and answer some questions. I know you do too. ;) I doubt he;ll ever do it, the coward. if the world is an ilussion he should then give up all his posessions; he can live in the jungle, al natural. LOL

MAHARAJI SUCKS!

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:40:12 (EDT)
From: a 0 a ji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: I'm glad
Message:
I think when Prem and the Mob are placed each next to each,
the same thing can be seen. They do not feel bad and
they do not see that what they do is bad. When CAC is
found or when it is sent down in the ground or when the
man who made it takes it down Prem will shrug but not where
you can see him shrug -- he will shrug in his mind and
no place else.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:53:45 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: a 0 a ji
Subject: I hear you
Message:
he will shrug in his mind and
no place else.

What a way to live, poor man, really.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 13:59:02 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Attacks by Maharaji Cult Members
Message:
Joe, I'm glad that you are not letting this go. Good for you. Neither will I. As soon as I get some time I will be following up on this angle. It really is disgusting.

It can't damage me much but I do worry for Way and think that he may have said goodbye because there is a post further down that is not in his name but which sounds like his calm measured voice which in effect says goodbye.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:06:23 (EDT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Attacks by Maharaji Cult Members
Message:
This is very disturbing. I hope both sD and way will reconsider as soon as the caca site is terminated. It will polarize the opposition against rawat and might unleash a press campaign.
It would be good for rawat to see what happened in the Condit case. Apart from being the most boring news topic of 2001 it does show what evasiveness can lead to.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:04:24 (EDT)
From: L-L-L
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Homophobia
Message:
I agree 100% that the CAC site is homophobic in tone, and should be denounced, but to parse out homophobia on Maharaji's part is unfair, inaccurate and dilutes the strength of your complaint. If the EV statement adds sexual orientation, what about other, just-as-fairly discriminated against groups?

More than 20 years around Knowledge in different cities, and I have never seen him or people around him act or say homophobic things, and we all know several PAM's who are open and/or closeted. Are you proposing that be be outed? I hope not
---
that would be terrible.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:36:17 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: L-L-L
Subject: Re: Homophobia
Message:
I was only reporting what I was told by Michael Dettmers and Dennis Murphy about Maharaji making fun, jokes, etc., about gay people. I have never said I know that Maharaji is homophobic. Like 99% of all people who have received knowledge, I have never even met the guy, much less discussed his prejudices. And I doubt Maharaji would say homophobic things publicly, just like he never did drugs publicly. Again, I don't know he's homophobic, I just know what Michael and Dennis told me when they were at 'the residence' and not at some public event. I don't know any more than that.

The point about Maharaji is that he has an obligation to get out front an stop this from happening, I mean if he has even the slightest shread of integrity. Those premies on CAC claim to be followers of his, so if he isn't homophobic, then he can tell them to cut it out, as well as the other stuff, and they would, because they are devotees of his. We will see what Maharaji is made of over this.

Regarding the statement on Elan Vital, the same applies. Elan Vital distances themselves from the site, but what is Elan Vital doing, as the organization that those premies who run the site belong to, to stop it. And, they could start by amending their anti-discrimination statement to make that clear.

Am I proposing that WHO be outed? What are you talking about?

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:26:12 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: L-L-L
Subject: Homophobia and CAC
Message:
CAC is the work of one paranoid individual premie who has taken the latest ''unwritten agya'' to conduct a net campaign against expremie information. CAC's creator, B, has made some terrible errors in judgement and will pay for it when he is exposed probably by EV when they see that he is hurting M.

Yes, I know two gay instructors and many other gay premies and there is no homophobia among most premies. CAC was not designed to be seen by premies but by the exes who are defamed by it in order to intimidate them.

It pretends to be for mass net consumption (but will not be seen by many) and poses as an anti-stalking site which rouses anti-gay prejudices in the general population. The anti-gay stuff is not CAC's worst error. The worst error was calling it an anti-stalking site when in fact it is a STALKING site. Sensible people can see that.

B and his CAC are in deep doodoo. Only someone who knew all the IP#s of expremie posters could have followed them to the sources such as ISP account information which gives addresses. B knows that we know who he is and is now beginning to regret CAC.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 10:56:57 (EDT)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Thankyou
Message:
I just wanted to say thankyou To everyone who posts and especially helps set up EPO and this forum.
It has helped my birth into what seems a whole new era of my life.
The first bit ( reading EPO cover to cover) was painful and shocking but being able to read this forum has helped me enter this new world.
(I am feeling a little euphoric ... perhaps I've had too much coffee.)
I especially like it that so many of you are so very articulate and funny.
I think this is a very good facility and should not be shut down.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 13:51:18 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Thankyou, Peg, for the few gems you've posted
Message:
I am looking forward to hearing a whole lot more from you and getting to know all about you.

On the premies forum, LG, some of them are fond of saying to exes: ''Sorry that you did not get anything out of that experience and I am so happy feeling it.'' I never bother to answer because no one knows what ''that experience'' was for anyone except themselves.

All I can say is I had some wonderful ''cosmic'' experiences with rawat but they did not go away just because I left him and in fact my ''experience'' feels a whole lot simpler, cleaner and honest without all the ridiculous Maharajism concepts.

Life really is Great without the gooroo and gets better every day. This is why I post here. I would be happy if I could just let one other person see that they are trapped in enslavement to an irresponsible and stupid man who really knows very little about the yoga that he teaches and has damaged many lives with his ignorance and selfish greed.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 12:48:47 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Euphoria = Your Newfound Freedom
Message:
For me, each time I realize I am alive and there is no religion hanging over me, I take a fresh full breath of freedom. There was a borrowed story the mahatmas and GMJ used to tell of the traveler arriving at a huge free feast only to realize he/she must eat while aware of a sword hanging above their head by a thread. Guess what? There is a feast but no sword. Therefore euphoria and freedom.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 02:14:45 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Ironic, Isn't it Richard??
Message:
That the Sword of Damocles that you speak of...and that Maha/Rawat oft referred to.....is none other than the Religion that Maha/Rawat used to bind us to His Concepts....A Fresh Full Breathe Of Freedom...pretty heady stuff to think that you actually Own..your OWN Breathe...Wow!!..Im Still Working on that one...All The Best..RichMandrake..
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 11:22:57 (EDT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: hear hear !! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 09:32:06 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au
To: All
Subject: Gerry. What's your e-mail?
Message:
I think I just go and get it of caca.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 10:59:42 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Re: Gerry. What's your e-mail?
Message:
gkl1@techline.com
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 06:16:30 (EDT)
From: Julian
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Maharaji is a danger to children
Message:
I've tried posting on Life's Great forum but the webmaster there deletes all my posts. The reason for the title of this post is because Maharaji obviously condones this CAC site and all they are doing. If he didn't condone it, the site would be pulled down immediately. He knows about it alright which brings me to my main point.

As you know, Sir David's pic of him and his young daughter were put on the CAC site with their address and phone number. This was endangering the child and was a serious case of internet crime and cyberstalking. Maharaji did NOTHING to stop this premie internet crime taking place.

Sir David was being blackmailed and his own kid was being used. This despicable and low crime of blackmail using innocent children carried on for several days until David deleted his websites and Forum 6 and the AG forum, and all the premie community new about it and hardly any premies voiced their displeasure. The morons could not see the danger to the child, they were so busy worshipping their master.

Maharaji did nothing and now I see that like the terrible Jagdeo child abuse cases that went on for years, Maharaji has clearly shown that he has no regard for the wellbeing of children.

MAHARAJI YOU ARE DESPICABLE.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 22:01:43 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Julian
Subject: Why CD removed your post
Message:
Hi Julian,

Chris Dickey, FA of the LG forum, should have known better than to leave lots of hints in your recent posts (last couple of weeks) foreshadowing his awareness of this cybersalking campaign.

He wants to eliminate any post that contains a strong voice and my dear, your voice is strong and clear as a bell.

The purpetrators have already committed the crime of jeapordizing Dave's daughter. If it was only a picture they wanted, they could have cut his daughter out. Did they? NO. Also, Dave agreed to the blackmail based on the security of his daughter. Did he/they realize they made an awful mistake and instantly remove the child's picture. NO, they didn't. They purposely used an innocent child who never said a bad word about MahaFuckForBrains.

FUCK YOU MAHARAJI--I will never forgive you for that, you understand?

Did they tell SirDave, 'It was only a joke, we just wanted to see how you would react?' NO. They didn't.

Many crimes are being committed here.

First: The cyberstalking
Second: The actual posting of it on the internet
Third: Endangerment to a child--they endangered her life.
Fourth: Blackmail, not attempted Blackmail. But successful Blackmail.

Chris Dickey, is in way over his head on this matter. SHAME ON YOU CD, you can have your fuckin way with your sick site and shove it up your fuckin ass.

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:01:20 (EDT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: Why CD removed your post
Message:
>Chris Dickey, FA of the LG forum, should have known better than to leave lots of hints in your recent posts (last couple of weeks) foreshadowing his awareness of this cybersalking campaign.

Deborah,

You are way off on this one.
This is a great example of the creation of a false rumour.
Stick to what you know and you will be credible.

Recently I do not post on F8 since at this time I don't allow Deborah and Jim to post on LG. If Gerry will allow me to state 2 facts in response to Deborah's false accusation:

1. I have no inside information about the CAC site.
2. I only learned of the CAC web site by reading posts on Lifes Great.

CD

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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 15:19:15 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Gerry, would you please block CD?
Message:
Why should he be able to even lurk here and then cherry pick moments he'd like to say something like now?
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 13:47:32 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Julian
Subject: ...and other living things. ')
Message:
I've tried posting on Life's Great forum but the webmaster there deletes all my posts. The reason for the title of this post is because Maharaji obviously condones this CAC site and all they are doing. If he didn't condone it, the site would be pulled down immediately.


---

When your children of today grow up, Maharaji is waiting for them,
to suck them into the cult vortex. Therefore, he is a danger to
everyone's children.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 12:31:48 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Julian
Subject: Re: Maharaji is a danger to children
Message:
i think sd's reaction was very emotional. i also have three kidz ,so
don't tell me i don't know what i'm talkin' about. i think it is all
this hyped up almost paranoid vibe that is being created by many exes
that backlashed. okay, cac put a pic of sd and his daughter on the
web, for lack of another pic, admittedly it was an unhappy choice,
but do you seriously believe m or whoever would send some hired
hitmen or the like ?????you are being either childish or paranoid.
and what is this porn site info that sd and pat conlon are running
porn sites ?? is this true ?? what about your allegations that m is
being homophobic and sexist ??do those guys who run porn sites on
the net have a moral right of accusing m then ?? i do not know whether
this stuff is true or not, but if it is, some of the exes are simply
not credible...others are, i would like to mention katie (from the
beyond) and richard formerly postie in this context.but unfortunately
the english of many of the posters does not seem to go beyond the 4 letter range and that renders much of the true stuff revealed by epo
worthless.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:24:48 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: don puerco
Subject: 1000 per cent wrong, Mr. Pig
Message:
i think sd's reaction was very emotional. i also have three kidz ,so
don't tell me i don't know what i'm talkin' about. i think it is all
this hyped up almost paranoid vibe that is being created by many exes
that backlashed. okay, cac put a pic of sd and his daughter on the
web, for lack of another pic, admittedly it was an unhappy choice,
but do you seriously believe m or whoever would send some hired
hitmen or the like ?????you are being either childish or paranoid.
and what is this porn site info that sd and pat conlon are running
porn sites ?? is this true ?? what about your allegations that m is
being homophobic and sexist ??do those guys who run porn sites on
the net have a moral right of accusing m then ?? i do not know whether
this stuff is true or not, but if it is, some of the exes are simply
not credible...others are, i would like to mention katie (from the
beyond) and richard formerly postie in this context.but unfortunately
the english of many of the posters does not seem to go beyond the 4 letter range and that renders much of the true stuff revealed by epo
worthless.


---

This argument about ex-premie credibility is ludicrous. The only ex-premies' whose credibility are those who were personal witnesses to things said or done, by Maharaji or others, which are in issue. Hence, Susan's credibility counts. She says, first, that Jagdeo molested her and other kids she knew and, second, that she told Randy Prouty who claimed he told Maharaji and later Judi Osborne who claimed that Maharaji already knew. So Susan's credibility matters. Perhaps you can attack it. Maybe Susan has lived under several aliases over the years and has racked up countless criminal charges for fraud or something. That would help. I'll tell you what would really help, though. Why don't you see if Susan's reported other spiritual leaders for sexual assault? I mean, it would be of great assistance if you could show that Susan's set up other gurus, priests, rabbis or mahatmas, especially if it turns out that those reports were false. Was Susan ever busted for perjury with respect to any of those claims? These are things, Mr. Pig, these are the things.

Then there's Abi. It's possible, I'd imagine, that Abi's spent her whole miserable life plotting and scheming to get a house from Maharaji. Some of us work for a living but some of us will do anything but. Maybe that's her. Again, criminal record? Don't forget potential aliases. Now this one's wily, Mr. Pig. See, first she moves to Australia which, on the surface, seems to be nothing but an obstacle in her claim against Maharaji and EV. Her 'assault' was suffered in England so what's she doing out there? Second, she plants the seed of this deceit years ago, telling her father so he'd tell Gurucharanand. Or at least that's what she says she did. Now her dad's still claims to be a premie so either he's just in there working the system with her or else she set him up years ago too. And don't forget that tricky little behind-the-scenes action whereby Abi and Susan, who say they didn't know each other, both end up reporting about Jagdeo independent of one another. Yeah, right, huh Mr. Pig? You're not going to fall for that, are you? Better get those criminal records.

And Dettmers and Donner, their credibility counts too. They saw stuff first-hand, or so they say. Dettmers has this wild story about Maharaji killing a guy on the way to the airport. As CAC said, he just might be 'hallucinatorily delusional'. I sure never read about that anywhere. I looked through EPO for a 'journey' entry from Randy Prouty who Dettmers says orchestrated the Chinese fire drill (everyone swapping seats so Maharaji's off the hook), but nothing. So Dettmers' credibility counts. Mind you, the best way to attack it isn't by simply stating the obvious -- that Dettmers no longer likes Maharaji and is thus an unloyal former servant -- but by bringing contrary evidence.

Go get Randy Prouty! Surely, he'd remember if there was any such accident and who was driving and all that. If Dettmers is lying, let's hear it from Prouty (he can comment on Susan too, while he's at it). Or maybe even Maharaji himself. Dettmers says that he pimped for Maharaji; let's hear Maharaji call him a liar. That's how you deal with that. Unless, of course, you've got charactter evidence on Dettmers that proves that he, too, is a proven fraud artist. Go find Dettmers criminal record. See how many times he's been sued for fraud and the like.

Same of course with Donner. Or Mishler, for that matter. These are guys whose credibility counts. If you're going to attack anyone's credibility it has to be theirs. Why? Because they're witnesses.

But then Sir Dave. What'd he ever 'testify' to beside once being asigned to guard a refrigerator which turned out to have nothing but the Lord's cheese in it? True, he might have been lying about that. But I don't think his account in that regard was really all that important vis-a-vis his voice in general as a former premie. So, really, how is Dave's credibility even an issue? Say, for argument's sake, that he is, by trade, the biggest, sleaziest, pornographer in Europe. So? What difference would that make?

You know, if Dave were running for Satguru himself, yeah, his character, including his credibility, would matter. But he's not, then, is he? So it doesn't. Not in the slightest. See, Mr. Pig?

The CAC site is a testament to how little Maharaji really has to say in his defence or premies for him. It's like one, big 'guilty plea' if you ask me. Yes, there you have it, CAC is essentially admitting the case against Maharaji. Lovely, eh?

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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 04:57:34 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: 1000 per cent wrong, Mr. Pig
Message:
you didn't need to post all that stuff, it has been posted 1000 times
or more..but i do not see any connection between the jagdeo case and
what i said in my post..jagdeo is not m and caca is not ev and ev
is not me..i only said sd overreacted and that many exes cling to
kind of a conspiracy idea that m is the most dangerous and ruthless
individual on the planet..sorta paranoid in my eyes..i do not doubt
that jagdeo molested young girls and he should be taken to justice.
i also believe that m accidentally run over a motorcycle driver , that
could happen to anyone of us..but that does not make m a killer or
a godfather of hitmen or the like...it's exactly this creating of a
myth that causes the overreaction of sd who probably thought his and
his family's life were at risk..this is what caca intended and they
succeeded...if he would not have caved in, nothing would have happen-
ed..but maybe his giving in is exactly what convinced caca to go on
with their campaign..and i do not see m behind it, maybe some fanatics
who row the same boat as exes fanatics...
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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 11:01:47 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: don puerco
Subject: I hear you, yes, BUT ......
Message:
Mr. Pig,

I've gone back and forth myself over Dave's reaction. I, too, have thought it was a bit much and a bit fast. However, it's true, I'm not in his shoes. Nor are you. I have to concede that it would, at the very least, be most discomfiting to find my home address along with my daughter's picture up on a website that blasted me as a 'pornographer' (get this, even if it were true!), labelled my daughter 'some young girl' and called me, essentially, the scum of the earth. What was Dave to do? Just forget about it and let that CAC wanted poster with his own daughter's picture in it stand?

Anyway, don't worry. This isn't over yet, I assure you.

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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 05:18:14 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: don puerco
Subject: Thanks for saying that, Porky
Message:
Half the time when I insult you it is because I disagree so much with your religion but the other half is because I sometimes make the mistake of grouping you with the premie fanatics who try to disrupt the forum.

I really appreciated your post. I know you are sincere and we will just have to agree to disagree about M and K and the rest of your religion.

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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 05:30:58 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Thanks for saying that, Porky
Message:
you're welcome
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 13:01:11 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: don puerco
Subject: Thanks DP but...
Message:
Don P,

Thanks for the kind words but I think you may have missed a few posts. EPO has been extremely effective in informing ex's, fencesitters, premies and EV folk as well. You would be amazed at the people who read and do not post. By reading the accumulated information, anyone wanting to know can make their own choice. As a result, many people have chosen to 'walk'. Some have chosen to go deeper into fear and paint their world with CACa et cetera.

There is a wide range of posts here and all of us have our moments of brilliance and moments of knuckleheadedness. But read the following 3 recent posts and perhaps you'll think better of the quality of material posted here.
All the best on your journey,
Richard

http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=gl&id=17065.550235321339

http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=gl&id=6889.2579424898135

http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=gl&id=6107.61813836684142

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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 05:28:02 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: Thanks DP but...
Message:
i know there is reasonable stuff on the forum as well, thanks for the
links
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 09:55:41 (EDT)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Julian
Subject: Re: Maharaji is a danger to children
Message:
I don't think all the premie community knew about this at all. i was a premie until very recently and never visited any sites at all not even Elan vital as advertised at every satellite link.
I think it is a big shame if you now say all premies are morons. After all you were one (I guess) and it would be better all round if you didn't slag yourself off too much.
Personally although I do feel gutted to have been in a cult all the time i was thinking everyone else was. And I feel very embarrassed about some of the things i believed and did under the name of devotion, and I admit I was deluded, I don't think i was a moron and i certainly don't think I would have condoned CAC, esp that creepy treatment of SD and his daughter.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 05:19:04 (EDT)
From: Name withheld-Fear of Rawat Cult
Email: None
To: All
Subject: and SOME are very dangerous
Message:
It's not that these cult members are the only people capable of violent behavior. It's just that they have two very good reasons to strike out at those opposing their master.

First, 'these sick puppies' feel that they can do whatever they want because this world is not real. Reality to them is the make believe world within inside that their master tells them exists so they believe they are experiencing(SOMETIMES). We could spend days here talking about strange behavior we observed from the cult members while we were still trapped and how it was rationalized by the fact that the world is not real. This built in rationalization given to them by their master makes some very dangerous.

Second, 'these sick puppies' who are aware of the many, many charges against their master feel personally attacked. If even one or two of the 14 charges against their master is true, then the last 20-30 years of their life is rendered meaningless. Some have and will just slink away but some will strike out in the name of their master but really to just help themselves not face the many, many wasted years.

Good bye to all of you who have the strength to continue this struggle against Maharaji. I spent to many years thinking that he was THE MAN. My only hope....I was so very wrong.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 12:34:08 (EDT)
From: don pueco
Email: None
To: Name withheld-Fear of Rawat Cult
Subject: Re: and SOME are very dangerous
Message:
what goes for my answer to julian applies to you a well
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 10:12:12 (EDT)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Name withheld-Fear of Rawat Cult
Subject: NOT MEANINGLESS
Message:
I have spent 29 1/2 years as a premie, and had many positive and good things happen in that time,learnt and tried out many things and met many people, grew up my children,learned many skills, even in service I learned many useful things I can use now.
Why are you saying goodbye? it would probably be worth hanging around here for a while with people who have moved on to life without Maharaji and feel good. I personally totally freaked when I found these ex sites but am now understanding what they meant by freedom and i don't feel like i wasted my life.
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:44:16 (EDT)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Agree, NOT MEANINGLESS
Message:
I'm glad to hear you say that, Peg. Well put.

After leaving the cult last Christmas, after spending nearly 20 years as a premie, I don't consider the entire past 20 years a waste. I had other things going on in my life too, and one can learn even from one's mistakes.

The new found freedom I am experiencing is being able to say 'This does work for me, so I'll keep it. However, this does not, so I'll let it go and move on.' There was a whole wagon load of maharajism crap that I just don't have to haul around and make excuses for anymore.

There is an initial 'scary' or 'uncomfortable' part when you first leave the cult; an unfamiliar freedom of thought as you leave behind the crapy concepts M put in your head, all the while insisting that they were not concepts. But as you become familiar with your newfound freedom, boy does it feel GOOD!

I'm still a 'breath-watcher', I enjoy yoga as mental health. I'm just enjoying life a lot and am so glad to be free of M's religion and selfserving negativity ('You're like a fish in a net, a fly in a spider web, no one has ever saved himself, you NEED the Master, blah blah blah, send money to support my lavish lifestyle, oops, I mean WORK. It's HARD to be a millionaire.'). Life is a lot easier and more enjoyable when you don't have to try and fit yourself in someone elses box. And M's knowlege is a box, no matter how much he insists it's not.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 11:34:21 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Very well said, Peg
Message:
And nice to meet you. I'm Gerry Lyng and I live in McCleary Washington. I was an ashram premie in Harrisburg and Pittsburg and spent time in premie houses in California and Arizona.

Got any good stories from the early daze?

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:05:04 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: gerry
Subject: :: well said my ass -- speak for yourselves ::
Message:
And nice to meet you. I'm Gerry Lyng and I live in McCleary Washington. I was an ashram premie in Harrisburg and Pittsburg and spent time in premie houses in California and Arizona.

Got any good stories from the early daze?


---

Yeah, well -- fine. You guys go have your latte and drive your
Beemer to the -- where-ever the f*ck it is that you go, while some
of us check in with our parole officers and rehab clinics and soup kitchens and therapists, between long stays in the psychiatric hospitals -- because the cult destroyed our lives. Ok?

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:35:01 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: regarding therapy etc
Message:
And placing blame. I only speak for myself but I cannot totally blame M for my breakdowns, need for meds, etc.

It's true that something happened to me when I exited. I'm doing great now, comparatively anyway. But in the first two years or so after leaving the cult I felt like I didn't know who I was. So much happened, a genuine identity crisis and reoccurance of old destructive coping mechanisms.

I think at least in my case the damage was done before I became a premie. I can't blame maharaji for abusive parents for the way the world treated someone very young and on her own.

But finding a guru in my late teens and turning it all over to him, to 'practicing Knowledge' was perhaps a good short term end to the destructive patterns in my life. But only short term.

In the long haul through all my 20s and 30s I see now that believing the cult beliefs stopped me from self work, from facing the demons. And believe me they did come back.

I've spoken with a few other recent exes who have had this same type of experience though less extreme in some ways and more so in others.
Losing ones rose colored glasses after rationalizing all we saw for years by keeping them on, that's heavy.

Someone posted here they were a 'psychological success story'
Not exactly sure what they meant but I feel similar, like I walked off the set of the Truman Show, got shocked and freaked for a few years and now am OK.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:14:47 (EDT)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Good post...
Message:
Hi Selene. You've made some good observations. Since posting here I've come to appreciate that there is a wide spectrum of experiences. Every story is as unique as the person telling it. I'm glad we have this place to share those experiences.

And for more light-hearted topics, there is now the Anything Goes Too! forum.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 20:23:52 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Chuck S.
Subject: hey thanks Chuck and all
Message:
I've posted this in many ways before but needed to say it. I hope aoaji knows I am not discrediting his anger or Silvia's . I do see the damage. It's just my personal story.
tried to play on your new forum but someone is already at my neck like a mosquito. What is that? oh well growing up is tough for some these days :)
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:15:18 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Re: hey thanks Chuck and all
Message:
Hi Selene, don't get paranoid although I know it's all to easy when you don't know who you're talking to. I'm prone to it myself so I sympathise.

Sorry I upset you on Chuck's forum . I'm Anatra & was trying out an attempt at being a comedian , but it's not as easy as I thought it might be. The blank posts happened before I knew it , if you see what I mean. Must have pressed the wrong button.

Anatra is Duck in Italian : Apologies : Pat Dorrity

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 21:19:18 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: oh
Message:
ok.
Yeah work on that you got the genes for comedy after all.
Thaks for telling me. I'm an exictable girl.
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Date: Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 14:43:30 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Re: oh - aha!
Message:
Thought maybe the ghost of Frank Sinatra was dyslexic. b) Liberace the Penist.;)
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:08:37 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Some of us started having
Message:
some of us started having serious psychological problems after becoming a devotee of maharaji, and it wasn't just me. I remember many of my premie friends leaving their parents, their cities and feeling guilt for it, confused.

Nobody can deny that there are different kind of premies. The ones who became deeply involved and listen repeatedly his cassettes, videos and follow the surrender agya to the T were affected differently by the programming than those doing it lightly.

I'm glad you are doing well. ;)

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:57:17 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Well spoken, Selene
Message:
Just last night I was thinking that I went through a period immediately after leaving maharajism of self-doubt and all my old demons returned.

Some of those demons were pre-maharajism stuff (being put in jail for being against apartheid and being queer and living under a nazi police state all my youth etc) which I have healed mostly but the new expremie demons were the rotting vegetable demons of Maharajism. As much as I knew I was being superstitious they haunted me for a while.

Not any more and I feel so sane, happy and contented - a real complete and healthy human being that I will continue to post here and draw attention to the fear-mongering and irresponsible teachings of Mahrajism in the hope that just one person will be freed from his trap.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 17:45:37 (EDT)
From: eb
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Well spoken, Selene
Message:
Great posts. I wonder how finding ex-premie forum would've affected me if I hadn't been in therapy and on medication for several years before finding it. I remember being so paranoid (when I found EPO) that M would know I was having doubts and reading the threads, even though I rarely went to programs or videos. I was involved much more in other new age hooey hooey stuff as well as traditional therapies. The John Bradshaw workshops on healing the inner child, and the anonymous meetings and those sorts of things helped me work through lots of childhood abuse, dysfunctional family stuff. Still, it took at least 6 months of lurking on EPO for me to really think through the brainwashing I received as a premie. So yeah--EPO is fantastic. It accomplished what 13 years of therapy wasn't able to do. As Pat said, even if it helps only one other person, I think it's done something fantastic.
with love,
eb
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 05:02:21 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Another pearl of Maharajism wisdom
Message:
This was posted by a premie on Lifes (sic) Great today as an example of Rev Rawat's infinite wisdom.

The premies always accuse exes of picking his holeyness' words to pieces and analysing them so I will refrain from doing so and just let these words of wisdom speak for themselves. I hope you can make sense of them because I can't for the life of me understand what the man is talking about.

[Life] doesn't have to be a tragedy. It can be a very beautiful saga. A very beautiful poem which doesn't talk about distress, but talks about the accomplishment and the fulfillment of every breath. As a flower fills to give its nectar out to that bee, and the bee collects every little bit. This little bee is not very big. How much do you reckon it must collect from each flower? It must be so little. But it will do it. It will take that time, …it will find that little flower, and it will take whatever that little flower has to offer. …And when you become that bee for every moment in your life, then, and only then, will you have this incredible amount of honey, this sweet honey, in your existence. Without that, nothing.

Oh, I got it: Rev Rawat is the flower full of nectar and I'm the bee and without him, I am nothing. Yep. Guess I better start sending those checks again. I'm starting to feel invisible.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 12:01:28 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Another pearl of Maharajism wisdom
Message:
i think it is only your paranoia that makes you interpret his words
the way you do..to me it's just nice poetry
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 14:36:06 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: don puerco
Subject: is this also just nice poetry, puerco?
Message:
From a recent sermon by Rev Rawat:

You have been borrowing from time and time is a mean lender. You should never borrow from time. That's one guy you need to stay away from. But naively, you borrow from time, saying, 'I'll do that tomorrow,' or, 'I'll get my life together when I'm older.' But time charges too much interest. And when time comes to collect, it has no mercy.”

Of course this has to be the most meaningless bunch of crap I have ever heard any adult speak but it's gist is ''be afraid, you are wasting time, wasting your life!''

Ooh, baby, now I'm just shitting myself. For christ's sake this is the Hindu bogeyman version of pure fundamentalist bible-thumping and fear-mongering.

Some premies are in denial, some are insecure, some are afraid, some are bordering on neurosis and some are definitely full-blown paranoids like CAC and other anonymice like you miss piggy aka hanuman and nagual rain.

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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 05:09:23 (EDT)
From: don hanu rain
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: is this also just nice poetry, puerco?
Message:
bullshit pat, it's just common sense, it is not fearmongering, it's
just a down to earth statement, it's what i say to my daughter when
she again flunked a test when instead she should be learning her
stuff for school she's going out to get stoned. your paranoia makes
all and everything coming from m a threat...he recently said.. there
should not be any feeling of guilt involved in all this...there are
quite a few things i don't like about m myself, but not this sort of
balderdash that you probably have vowed to make your mission in life.
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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 05:25:19 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: don hanu rain
Subject: Okay you got me, Porky
Message:
Yes, it is a bit of a mission for me.

This is what I just said to Laof on lifes Great:

Loaf, maybe we don't mean exactly the same thing when we use the word Knowledge. By Knowledge I mean the path of beauty, as the poet Keats said ''beauty is truth and truth is beauty.''

I would be more blunt than you and say that Knowledge shows you how to tap into that beauty and that you do not have an option to just walk away from it as Maharaji has advised. He used to say, ''If you leave this Knowledge you will splinter into a thousand pieces'' or ''you will rot like a truckload of vegetables.'' Nowadays he says, ''You cannot come home without the master.''

Once you have walked the path of beauty you cannot turn away from it. The mistake that Maharaji has made is to tie that path to him because, when you decide that you no longer like him (but still love Knowledge,) then a lot of ''splintering'' and ''rotting'' takes place. It is very painful to leave Maharaji. That's why some expremies are so angry and upset and feel hatred for Maharaji. Some divorces are messy.

But if it is not a good marriage the relief sets in soon and you begin to realise that the path of beaty is still there and that the challenge of ''re-installing your own Operating system'' is exciting and liberating.

The only reason why I got involved in the premie/expremie debate is because I know so many premies who are miserable because they are no longer comfortable with Maharaji (a master who hires expensive New York lawyers and sanctions websites in his name to intimidate his critics into silence and threaten their rights to free speech.)

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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 05:48:51 (EDT)
From: don puerco
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Okay you got me, Porky
Message:
i think i see K similar, by nature i guess i never been hooked on M
as a person, more like a mental pic of something ideal which now has
been shattered by the revelations on EPO..it's no great sweat for me
seeing M no longer the way i used to see him..i thank him for having
been a companion for so long but now i will WALK on alone..i consider
him someone like say ....pat conlon, how do you like that ?????
i see that many premies are just afraid of losing that admittedly
illusionary shelter they trust in and i DON'T see M taking advantage
of that but slowly coaching them out...i guess he'd be happy if all
his premies would turn to exes so he wouldn't have to bother about
them...and i think he's received enough donations already they would
last him until the time he will' shed his mortal coil'. but he would
still be trying to spread K , maybe from out of his ivory internet
tower...
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Date: Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 05:58:40 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: don puerco
Subject: Porky, you're an honest man
Message:
I knew that when you first emailed me but I was so caught up in my divorce from rawat that I was defensive towards you. Well, you can't blame me when you said some awful things to me when you posted as hanuman and sumo boy. But I don't hold grudges not even with Rawat. I want to see the right thing being done.

He got awfully rich by teaching simple yoga and then he did not teach it very well. But I know that you will probably disagree with me about that. That's fine. I may not appreciate your religion but I don't expect you to agree with mine either. I wish you well.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 07:31:04 (EDT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Another pearl of Maharajism wisdom
Message:
pat

Do you somewhere in the temp directory of your puter have my post which i deleted and which you liked ?

I took it off because as I re-read it I foundI was becoming nervous, not of CAC in particular - but also of appearing to place M centre stage without being unsympathetic.

It was almost like during warime Britian where people were wary of being misunderstood as being 'soft on the germans.

The nature of M's cowardly response has shown him in a very very tarnished light - but it is not him I am wary of... its the potential (and I smell it on CAC more than here) for hysteria.

Not hysterical premies... thems bad enough.. but rabble rousing, gutter sensationalistic fear mongering among those wedges of society who are all too happy to grind their axes.

The hysteria in the Uk over suspected paedophiles has resulted in innocent people (men usually who live alone) being driven from their houses.

When I read stuff such as 'should Mike dettmers , alleged cyberstalking nutcase be allowed near children ?' it is very clear that they are popping shots indescriminately at ANY vulnerable point.

If they are doing that now... and it could get nastier - the problem is that M wont stop them. Its a Holy war, a Jihad, and thats why the Pope wont condem the IRA either.

Anyhow... since you liked me post and i am curious to re-read it in the light of recent developments, could you post it uup again... and let this serve as an intro.

If you aint got it.. no problem. I just wanted to say 'hello' anyway.

Loafie (unsliced but white)

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 10:48:54 (EDT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Loaf! where've you been?
Message:
I thought you'd stopped posting here.

Coincidences abound. I'd better tell you now - I just read your 'Journey' for (believe it or not) the first time today. It inspired me.

So much so that I quoted in (in full) over on the LG site. Without your permission.

Hope I haven't offended, but it seemed the right thing to do at the time. If I've compromised you in any way, just let me know and I'll do the right thing.

(inspirational journey, BTW).

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 11:21:32 (EDT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: I been lurking...
Message:
I only manifest in times of extreme darkness. Otherwise I remain in my serene like state of bliss, humming quietly.

mmmmm

You promised a link ? What is this LG ?

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 13:23:35 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Loaf, I woke up to your words this am
Message:
I made my first cup of tea and clicked on what I thought was the link to here but it was the link to The premie forum Lifes (sic) Great and lo and behold cq had posted your Journey there. When I finished reading it (not for the first time and I enjoyed it even more this time) I returned to the main page and found that I was on the wrong forum. Bless your cotton socks for writing that.

No I did not keep your recent post which I liked so much. Sorry. I never expected it to be deleted by you. BTW how did you delete it? I would like to know that trick myself. I wouldn't be too concerned with being too picky about your posts. Your warmth, sincerity and honesty shine through all your posts and anyone with half a brain can forgive you any poorly expressed thoughts knowing that you will be polishing your ideas and are learning from your mistakes as some people never seem to do.

I really hope to meet you one day and take your hand in friendship. Much love to you.

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:06:58 (EDT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Loaf, I woke up to your words this am
Message:
Its odd being famous. I must try not to let it change me.

re-reading the journey of 1999 is like trying to fit into old clothes. I know it was me, it sounds like I sounded... but everything has changed.

Not a lot, and in principal not at all..but I am further from the memories of darshan now - and more in love with my own life without any social pyramid at all. It shows me in some way what I have learned...

I dont want to be impressed any more.

I am not impressed that I WAS impressed.

It is not the sincerity I seek any more. It is full of holes like a seive.When I re-read my journey it makes me realise how hypnotised I was.

We could all be little maharaji's if we wanted to. And yet it would be abuse. What sort of parent reminds his child every day, to be grateful to him ?

Run for the hills !

Loaf

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:18:12 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Loaf, you're a cupcake as the say in Dixie
Message:
You said: ''What sort of parent reminds his child every day, to be grateful to him?''

That's easy, the sort of parent who thinks his kids are there to support him financially.

Hopefully you will add to your Journey. I should talk. I'm so busy slagging off the urug here I haven't had the time. And what with all the work I have to do on my porno site etc. ;)

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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:34:32 (EDT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: is a cupcake like beefcake ? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 15:47:58 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Loaf
Subject: Is a cupcake like beefcake ?
Message:
No, a cupcake is a sweetheart. Beefcake boys are known as creampuffs in SF but I call them gympansies. Are you beefy? Got to go and work on my despicable porn. Talk to you later. Email me some time.
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