Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Aug 27, 2001 To: Sep 01, 2001 Page: 3 of: 5


D Binner -:- Master? -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:30:06 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- The essence of this 'teaching' -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 23:02:00 (EDT)
__ __ Jerry -:- I'm sold! -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 20:09:40 (EDT)
__ __ gerry -:- Jim, that's exactly it! -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:44:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- What are you talking about? -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:15:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Alpha Beta Delta Theta -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 23:24:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Never mind that ... -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 23:27:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- New Age music and waterfalls -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:22:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ such -:- r.e. subliminal seduction -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:17:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Subliminal seduction debunked -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:22:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- More like Madison Ave -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:46:50 (EDT)

Marianne D. Bachers -:- Letter to CAC, Elan Vital and Maharaji -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 21:21:45 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- Re: Letter to CAC, Elan Vital and Maharaji -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:01:31 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- Right on Marianne -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 11:53:15 (EDT)
__ Tonette -:- Good luck Marianne -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:12:34 (EDT)
__ Concerned Ex -:- Re: Letter to CAC, Elan Vital and Maharaji -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:35:19 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- I'll phone you as I can't comment -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 21:37:36 (EDT)
__ Rick -:- Re: Letter to CAC, Elan Vital and Maharaji -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 21:31:32 (EDT)

janet -:- an open letter to marolyn -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 18:22:03 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Very honest and sincere -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 16:25:28 (EDT)
__ Jane -:- Re: an open letter to marolyn -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:58:26 (EDT)
__ Zelda -:- ex disagrees with ex -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:57:16 (EDT)
__ Ann -:- You are fucked up -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:23:31 (EDT)
__ __ janet -:- Re: You are fucked up -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 04:40:29 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- How nice of you Ann... -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 08:46:25 (EDT)
__ __ btdt -:- Re: You are fucked up -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:12:12 (EDT)
__ __ btdt -:- Re: You are fucked up -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:12:00 (EDT)
__ __ btdt -:- Re: You are fucked up -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:11:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ my comp is psyco tonite -:- Re: You are fucked up -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:13:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Thelma the Church Lady -:- Now, btdt, is this anyway for a grandma to talk?;) -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:25:50 (EDT)
__ __ your are fucked up -:- even more -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:27:27 (EDT)
__ dv -:- Bravo! Kick ass!Nt! -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:16:05 (EDT)

btdt -:- Michael Dettmers -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 18:01:02 (EDT)
__ messengergirl -:- Michael Dettmers Post from Life's Great -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 18:07:43 (EDT)
__ __ Ann -:- Another fucked up -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:27:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- How nice of you Ann... -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 08:51:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Ann, you've missed the point. -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:34:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ Steve -:- Get rid of this VC , Anne troll .nt -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:43:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ Another messenger -:- Ann aka VC etal -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:58:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Julian -:- Ann is Catweasel -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 20:40:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: Ann is Catweasel -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:52:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- CW -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 07:34:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: CW -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:34:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- Re: CW -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:53:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: CW -:- Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 06:10:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Many thanks, CW -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 00:16:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Shooting blanks, Ann? -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:37:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ Michael Dettmers -:- Re: Another fucked up -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:35:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Sergio M -:- Dettmers Lying? -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 20:56:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- at last an honest premie -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 20:04:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Of COURSE a drunk can give you Knowledge… -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:35:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- And be sure to subscribe -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:00:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Oh that is FUNNY! nt… -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:08:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Ditto }) -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 16:35:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Rick -:- hysterical -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:42:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Definitely a keeper, Nigel... [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 08:55:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Vizions International -:- That's a Keeper, Nigel [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 06:54:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- ...and devotees can worship a drunken guru -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:22:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Gail -:- The Lifers who will not leave the cult .. -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:54:46 (EDT)
__ Rick -:- Re: Michael Dettmers -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 18:03:28 (EDT)

Cynthia -:- These Boots Are Made For Stalkin'... -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 17:40:24 (EDT)
__ Deborah -:- Are you ready boots...start stalking -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:41:29 (EDT)
__ Selene -:- very good poem Cynthia -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 20:10:44 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Thanks, Selene...Just a tantrum... -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 08:40:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: Thanks, Selene...Just a tantrum... -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:46:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- quitting doesn't work for me -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:15:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: quitting doesn't work for me -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:18:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- breaks are healthy -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:39:33 (EDT)

Rick -:- my hit on CAC -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 17:29:22 (EDT)
__ witch -:- Re: my hit on CAC -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 21:48:02 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- I think Richard 2 is Nil -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 21:38:34 (EDT)
__ __ Steve -:- nil and remember mirror ? nt -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:47:36 (EDT)
__ __ Rick -:- Re: I think Richard 2 is Nil -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:44:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Thanks, Rick -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:50:45 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- R2 certainly has the right mentality -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 18:11:59 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- I agree! Good One! RtheII [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 17:43:42 (EDT)

janet -:- red and then no red? -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:31:35 (EDT)
__   -:- Re: red and then no red? -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:39:03 (EDT)
__ __ janet -:- THANK YOU!!!!!!YESSSSSS.... -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:45:59 (EDT)
__ __   -:- PS -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:41:42 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- Shri Paramhans Advait mat book updated -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 13:42:46 (EDT)
__ BTDT -:- Re: Shri Paramhans Advait mat book updated -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:31:17 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- You really hit paydirt, JM -- FANTASTIC! -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 18:39:22 (EDT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Interesting no premies join in these threads, Jim -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 03:02:24 (EDT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Exctasy holding this book in my hands -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 20:06:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ la-ex -:- Will the real satguru please stand up? -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 23:23:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- The real irony -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:42:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Many, many thanks, J-M [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 21:07:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- To Pat, as you're a specialist -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:34:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- You flatter me, monsieur -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:23:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ bdtd -:- Re: You flatter me, monsieur -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:22:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- btdt, what the fuck is ''rotflmao?'' -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:28:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ btdt -:- Re: btdt, what the fuck is ''rotflmao?'' -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:26:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- I am ''rotflmao'' -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:47:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Great information, an exciting find ! -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 20:29:06 (EDT)
__ btdt -:- Re: Shri Paramhans Advait mat book updated -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:31:51 (EDT)
__ __ janet -:- read and be amazed -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:56:46 (EDT)

Gail Macdougall -:- What the hell is going on? -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 13:36:27 (EDT)
__ janet -:- basically, sir dave was blackmailed off -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:16:20 (EDT)
__ __ Gail -:- Re: basically, sir dave was blackmailed off -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 18:44:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ Here is -:- that blackmail email in full -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 21:38:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Gail -:- As Sir David aptly put it -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 23:53:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Hey there Gail -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:00:15 (EDT)

Bob -:- Bias -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 08:38:38 (EDT)
__ Bin Liner -:- Well said Bob -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:17:37 (EDT)

Peg -:- to btdt -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 08:08:03 (EDT)
__ janet -:- Re: emates -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:42:23 (EDT)
__ btdt -:- Re: to btdt -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 13:16:33 (EDT)
__ btdt -:- Re: to btdt -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 13:15:31 (EDT)
__ Peg -:- I don't know why it says link there isn't one. [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 08:12:24 (EDT)

Bang -:- The lion and the baboon, continued. -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 05:18:58 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Don't give up the day job Bang. (nt) -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 16:10:30 (EDT)
__ janet -:- Re: The lion and the baboon, continued. -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 15:10:44 (EDT)
__ __ Deborah -:- Touchee! You are a much better novelist -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:52:35 (EDT)
__ such -:- just yer typical lyin' [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:59:09 (EDT)

la-ex -:- Has anyone saved this cac stuff? -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 00:45:14 (EDT)
__ Nottingham Mole -:- Re: Has anyone saved this cac stuff? -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 17:21:03 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- Yes -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:52:17 (EDT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Good point, Joe, plus... -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 16:25:00 (EDT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- It's all in your Internet cache -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 03:50:10 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Yep -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:28:39 (EDT)

Silvia -:- Giving Bjorn a brake -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 23:23:23 (EDT)
__ Stirling Moss -:- I'd rather give him an accelerator -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:23:36 (EDT)
__ __ gerry -:- This is a Bjorn-free forum -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:15:43 (EDT)
__ __ __ Silvia -:- I'm aware of that -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:30:20 (EDT)

Silvia -:- HILLARIOUS-Cybers CAC MERGED! -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:24:48 (EDT)
__ VC -:- Re: HILLARIOUS-Cybers CAC MERGED! -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:50:55 (EDT)
__ __ Silvia -:- YOU, COWARD nt -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 09:44:58 (EDT)
__ __ silvia -:- I forgot.VICTORIA? -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:56:44 (EDT)
__ __ Silvia -:- Really? -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:55:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ Chuck S. -:- Exactly. Where is the link ... -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:36:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Silvia -:- Re: Exactly. Where is the link ... -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 17:24:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Chuck S. -:- Where is the link ... nowhere. -:- Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:08:33 (EDT)

janet -:- ADMIN:FORUM CODE SPECS -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 21:41:35 (EDT)
__ janet -:- Re: ADMIN:FORUM colors answer (hotboards) -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 13:52:17 (EDT)
__ Rick -:- Re: ADMIN:FORUM CODE SPECS -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:50:34 (EDT)
__ __ janet -:- to rick and carlos -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:00:02 (EDT)
__ __ __   -:- Forum 6 were these colours -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:23:15 (EDT)
__ Carlos -:- Janet, go to opera.com and download their -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 04:09:24 (EDT)
__ janet -:- Re: ADMIN:FORUM CODE SPECS -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:23:29 (EDT)
__ Silvia -:- I see your point -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:09:55 (EDT)
__ __ forum janitor -:- You ladies quit whinging, please -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 23:10:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ glasses dont help -:- me see colors better!!!please? -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:13:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pretend you are grateful -:- but give money [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 06:08:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ Silvia -:- LOL nt -:- Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 23:24:42 (EDT)


Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:30:06 (EDT)
From: D Binner
Email: dbinner@aol.com
To: All
Subject: Master?
Message:
All your life, you desired freedom. The day when you turn within is the day when you achieve your freedom. You have found the open window, you now know how to escape. You have found the key to the prison. Simplicity, every day, is yours. You are then able to come, to be alive, to celebrate this existence, to listen to the Master and say, 'Thank you. Thank you for what you told me. Because what you told me, no one else ever did. They tried to, but their words did not come from the heart.' It is in the Master's Knowledge, it is in his wisdom, it is in his teachings that his proof lies. It is not in a certificate. The Master who removes the inner ignorance does not have a certificate hanging on the wall saying, 'Remover of Ignorance.' It hangs in the heart of all those from whom he has removed the ignorance. That's where you will find that certificate.

Maharaji

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 23:02:00 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: D Binner
Subject: The essence of this 'teaching'
Message:
Something like:

It feels really good to believe in me. Go on, try it. See? What'd I tell you? Come on, let's do it a little more. That's right, just let yourself go. Imagine you're on a swing inside and I'm gently pushing you. Get it? Your breath? See what I'm talking about?

Now get this part -- this is the really cool part: you've probably got a bunch of questions, maybe some doubts about all this. Well what would you say if I told you that you can take all those questions, all those doubts, and just put them in a big, black bag? Got that? A big black bag. Okay, now imagine that you're dropping this bag off a bridge, into the river. See it float away? Can you see that? There go all your doubts, all your questions. You are getting sleepy ....., sleepy.

You are feeling gratitude. Gratitude is pouring over your heart. Yes, your heart. Your heart is golden, it is full of love. Love for this life. Love for the Master!

Let yourself go. Some doubts come, don't worry. Just put them in a ... that's right ... a big, black bag. That's it. Over the bridge. ...

You're in love with your breath. This breath here, dear premies, this very breath, now, this is the one! Can you feel it? Can you really feel it?

That's right, just let it go. Your heart is full of the Master's love. Just let yourself go .....

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 20:09:40 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm sold!
Message:
Where's the donation box?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:44:46 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, that's exactly it!
Message:
Something like:

It feels really good to believe in me. Go on, try it. See? What'd I tell you? Come on, let's do it a little more. That's right, just let yourself go. Imagine you're on a swing inside and I'm gently pushing you. Get it? Your breath? See what I'm talking about?

Now get this part -- this is the really cool part: you've probably got a bunch of questions, maybe some doubts about all this. Well what would you say if I told you that you can take all those questions, all those doubts, and just put them in a big, black bag? Got that? A big black bag. Okay, now imagine that you're dropping this bag off a bridge, into the river. See it float away? Can you see that? There go all your doubts, all your questions. You are getting sleepy ....., sleepy.

You are feeling gratitude. Gratitude is pouring over your heart. Yes, your heart. Your heart is golden, it is full of love. Love for this life. Love for the Master!

Let yourself go. Some doubts come, don't worry. Just put them in a ... that's right ... a big, black bag. That's it. Over the bridge. ...

You're in love with your breath. This breath here, dear premies, this very breath, now, this is the one! Can you feel it? Can you really feel it?

That's right, just let it go. Your heart is full of the Master's love. Just let yourself go .....


---

Brilliant post, btw. That's exactly Rawat's game.

And here's what also intrigues me: That Rawat and Company actually broadcast the extra low frequencies to attenuate the brains of the people in the audience to an alpha brainwave state. This makes people extremely open to suggestion and induces the 'high.'

Now this isn't bullshit or a conspiracy theory. Lot's of people know about this 'off the shelf' technology and it has been studied and verified by reputable mainstream scientists.

J-M saw this equipment himself and wrote about this. He was reviled on the CAC site for doing so.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:15:33 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: What are you talking about?
Message:
What equipment? And that was part of his CAC profile? If so, I missed it. What'd it say?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 23:24:41 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Alpha Beta Delta Theta
Message:
What equipment? And that was part of his CAC profile? If so, I missed it. What'd it say?


---

Never Mind...

It's not important right now, but I'd like to back to discussing it at a later date.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 23:27:05 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Never mind that ...
Message:
Have you exercised today?

It's bike time

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:22:52 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: New Age music and waterfalls
Message:
and dreamlike fadeouts of the master in slowmo and the mantra ''belief is relief'' which he used for years in the 90s.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:17:19 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: r.e. subliminal seduction
Message:
gerry wrote: 'And here's what also intrigues me: That Rawat and Company actually broadcast the extra low frequencies to attenuate the brains of the people in the audience to an alpha brainwave state. This makes people extremely open to suggestion and induces the 'high.'

Now this isn't bullshit or a conspiracy theory. Lot's of people know about this 'off the shelf' technology and it has been studied and verified by reputable mainstream scientists.

J-M saw this equipment himself and wrote about this.'

Did you know that high-tech 'subliminal seduction' was banned in broadcasting and films by the US and European nations many years ago?! In the 1950s film distributors used to throw in quick frames of popcorn, and messages like 'go to the snack shop NOW'. Similarly, artists used to airbrush weird stuff into booze and cigarette ads.

Such techniques were first developed by Nazi filmmaker propagandists under Goebbels and by Hollywood. It's supposedly illegal to use sound waves and video frames in subliminal seduction.

If Visions is using such techniques as a low-level subsonic frequencies, perhaps m. and co. are also breaking laws, besides violating ethical standards.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:22:14 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Subliminal seduction debunked
Message:


Skeptic's Dictionary: subliminal

content='subliminal, Skeptic's Dictionary, skepticism, paranormal, psychic, occult, pseudoscientific, supernatural, fraud, hoaxes, New Age,
alternative health, UFOs, ETs, junk science, cryptozoology, logic, philosophy, critical thinking'>
content='over 325 skeptical definitions and essays
  on occult, paranormal,supernatural and pseudoscientific
ideas and practices with references to the best skeptical literature'>


 






alt='sd.gif (2133 bytes)'>

Robert Todd Carroll

 BORDER='0' width='60' height='60'>

SkepDic.com

alt='vertline.gif (1078 bytes)' align='left'> 

subliminal


The subliminal is below the liminal (the smallest detectable sensation).


Anything truly below the level of detectable sensation could not, by definition, be
perceived. However, the subliminal is generally said to be below the threshold of conscious
perception. There is a widespread belief, not strongly supported by empirical research,
that without being aware of its presence or content, a person's behavior can be
significantly affected by subliminal messages. Thus, it is believed that one can influence
behavior by surreptitiously appealing to the subconscious mind
with words and images. If this were true, then advertisers could manipulate consumer
behavior by hiding subliminal messages in their ads. The government, or Aunt Hilda for
that matter, could control our minds and bodies by secretly communicating to us
subliminally. Learners could learn while listening to music embedded with subliminal
messages. Unfortunately, "...years of research has resulted in the demonstration of
some very limited effects of subliminal stimulation" and no support for its
efficaciousness in behavior modification (Hines, 312).


The fact that there is almost no empirical support for the usefulness of subliminal
messaging has not prevented numerous industries from producing and marketing tapes which
allegedly communicate directly with the unconscious mind, encouraging the
"listener" not to steal, or coaching the "listener" to have courage or
believe in his or her power to accomplish great things.  Consumers spend more
than $50 million each year on subliminal self-help products (Journal of
Advertising Research,
reported by Dennis
Love, Sacramento Bee, 9-14-2000
). A place called Holistic Hypnosis
offers a
wide array of such tapes developed by James H. Schmelter, a hypnotherapist with an MBA and
self-proclaimed expertise in synergistic science. If Schmelter's stuff is not to your
liking, try Subliminal Inspiration from Success
Cassettes, Inc.
 


It is true that we can perceive things even though we are not conscious of perceiving
them. However, for those who put messages in tapes and then record music over the messages
so that the messages are drowned out by the music or other sounds, it might be useful to
remember that if the messages are drowned out by other sounds, the only perceptions one
can have are of the sounds drowning out the messages. There is no evidence of anyone
hearing a message which is buried beneath layers of other sounds to the point where the
message does not distinctly stand out. Of course, if the message distinctly stood out, it
would not be subliminal.


The belief in the power of subliminal messaging to manipulate behavior seems to have
originated in 1957 with James Vicary, an advertising promoter who claimed to increase
popcorn sales by some 58% and Coke sales by some 18% in a New Jersey movie theater simply
by flashing very briefly the messages "Drink Coca-Cola" and "Hungry - Eat
Popcorn" at the subliminal level. Even though the claim has been shown to be a hoax,
and even though no one has been able to duplicate the event, belief in the legend lingers.
This story and several others were retold by Vance Packard in The Hidden
Persuaders
(1957), a book that became required reading for a generation
of college students.*


Belief in subliminal messaging reached a surreal apex in 1980 with the publication of The
Clam-Plate Orgy and Other Subliminals the Media Use to Manipulate Your Behavior
by
Wilson Bryan Key. The book has been reissued under the sexier title: Subliminal Adventures in Erotic Art.
Key claims that advertisers use subliminal messaging of a very
serious sexual nature in order to manipulate behavior, including imbedding
sexy figures and the word 'sex' in images of such things as ice cubes and
food. While carefully examining a Howard
Johnson's menu, Key saw that the plate of clams pictured on the menu was actually the
portrayal of a sexual orgy which included various people and a donkey. Among Key's many
unfounded claims is that the unconscious mind processes subliminal messages at the speed
of light. Actually, the fastest brain process chugs along at some 40 m.p.h. (Hines).


Despite the fact that there is no body of empirical support for the
notion that subliminal advertising is effective, in 1974 the Federal
Communications Commission (FCC) issued an order saying that broadcast
outlets that knowingly carry subliminal ads are operating "contrary to the
public interest." In September 2000, Senators Ron Wyden of Oregon and John Breaux of Louisiana
complained to the FCC about a Republican ad that flashes the word ''RATS''
(or "BUREAUCRATS") across the
screen for 1/30 of a second. ''We have reason to believe that broadcasters
are airing television advertisements that contain subliminal messages in
violation of the public interest,'' they
said
, apparently oblivious to the fact that something which can't be
registered by the brain is unlikely to have any effect on viewers and is
unlikely to violate anything except the reasonable bounds of credulity.
Wyden and Breaux must be very bored. They ought to ask themselves why
anyone would bother with useless subliminal messages when the overt
message of the ad claims that Gore's prescription drug plan will introduce
a bureaucracy that will interfere with doctor/patient relationship.


See related entry on hypnosis, HREF='mindcont.html'>mind control, and  pareidolia.




further reading

reader comments


Hines, Terence. Pseudoscience and the Paranormal (Buffalo, NY: Prometheus Books,
1990).


Volkey, J. and J. Read. "Subliminal Messages: Between the Devil and the
Media," American Psychologist (1985), pp. 1231-1239.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:46:50 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: More like Madison Ave
Message:
Seductive music, fade-outs, slomo guru faces, waterfalls - buy this ultra soft toilet-paper oops gooroo - buy buy buy. Madison Ave psychology works. I know. I just went out and bought a month's subscription to the Psychic Network. :)
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 21:21:45 (EDT)
From: Marianne D. Bachers
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: All
Subject: Letter to CAC, Elan Vital and Maharaji
Message:
Dear CAC authors and contributors, Elan Vital and its Board of Directors, and Prem Pal Singh Rawat:

I see that that the website which was recently at www.stopcyberstalkers.com does not now contain any information about me. What I do see is that those involved with the site have done even worse damage to my reputation: that is, they have identified me as a criminal cyberstalker, and have provided false, defamatory information about me to other individuals and organizations. The site information states that the false, defamatory information about me was published to law enforcement organizations, and was viewed by tens of thousands of people, and has now been made a part of the databases of other anti-cyberstalking groups, and perhaps even law enforcement databases. Your intentional posting of this false and defamatory information has injured me both as an individual and in my professional capacity as an attorney, and has intentionally and maliciously caused me emotional distress.

I told you that I took the false and defamatory allegations against me very seriously. Instead of simply deleting the information about me, steps were taken to more deeply harm me and my reputation. As I said before, I intend to do something about this.

Marianne D. Bachers
Attorney at Law
San Francisco, California

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:01:31 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Marianne D. Bachers
Subject: Re: Letter to CAC, Elan Vital and Maharaji
Message:
Marianne,

When I kept asking why no women on the CAC site, I thought of you.

So I'm not surprised they added your name. I missed it, and now there's nothing there.

What a bunch of fucking weirdos.

As Joe said below, you go girl--you do good work, and even the ''massa'' can't stop that.

I've been thinking about you a lot. Hope you're well inspite of all this caca...

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 11:53:15 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Marianne D. Bachers
Subject: Right on Marianne
Message:
No one could ever say you would accept being a victim. You go girl.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:12:34 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Marianne D. Bachers
Subject: Good luck Marianne
Message:
BTY, where exactly did CAC go? There is not a link provided with who CAC 'merged' with.

Tonette

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:35:19 (EDT)
From: Concerned Ex
Email: None
To: Marianne D. Bachers
Subject: Re: Letter to CAC, Elan Vital and Maharaji
Message:
Marianne-

I had read the 'shame list' posted on the CAC site and was truly horrified to see the info that had been posted there about you. I can only imagine the authors of that site were intentionally trying to cause you emotional harm by posting personal information about you. Worse than that is the false info there about you that was seen by who knows how many other people. Whoever did this was very misguided indeed and should have been alot more careful when choosing his/her targets.

I wish you the best and you have my complete support in pursuing this.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 21:37:36 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Marianne D. Bachers
Subject: I'll phone you as I can't comment
Message:
I just need to get through another week of 14 hour days and then I'll have time to have a long talk with you. Lots of love to you.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 21:31:32 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Marianne D. Bachers
Subject: Re: Letter to CAC, Elan Vital and Maharaji
Message:
You go, Marianne.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 18:22:03 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: All
Subject: an open letter to marolyn
Message:
i bring this up from below to get it out of the morass of profanity and distraction it became an excuse for--and to add my sentiments to it as well:

Marolyn,

The time is now here for you to take a stand. You are aware of the many charges against your husband, Prem. You have been and continue to be in the best position to know which of these charges are not true.

Now is the time to speak up or summon the courage to walk away from this man. Yes, you would have much to lose by leaving him, but your well-being and that of your children in the long term should be your overriding concern. The psychological damage to them must be enormous. Sometime in their adult life they will have to pay the piper for their Life with Dad. You must be aware of that, somewhere within you.

Do what is right, Marolyn.

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

to which i must add:

Marolyn:
You must be living in a state of such supressed denial. You must surely know, from a long time back, that your marriage to Maharji is a sham that you only keep going because to walk away would be so unknown.
You knew when your chauffeur met you as a real person, one to one, and appreciated you for the real you. You knew it in his arms, and you knew it when maharaji started bedding Monica, and the other women he met, away from the house, when he grew bored with you.

You surely knew it when your husband clammed up and isolated himself in the sessions held to try and ease up the climate of fear and distrust at the residence. You heard him say and saw him do things we can only guess about, when you both attended the sessions with Doctor Irene Kassorla, trying to save your marriage.

It is understandable, your wanting to stay where you are, and not countenance walking out of such a sumptuous home, such fabulous affluence, such surroundings of ease and leisure.
But you must know, at the very bottommost truth, that it is all ill gotten gain, taken from those who needed it more, but were persuaded to part with it despite.
How can you live on it, knowing that it is dirty money? What must you think about yourself, knowing that you are taking it, and eating with it, dressing with it, driving with it, bathing with it, that everywhere you turn, you are surrounded by it?
If it were me, I would be as unhappy and as uncomfortable as if it were acquired by murder, or drugs, or crime. I would not be able to stay there a moment longer.

Your children are no longer young and tiny. they are all old enough to leave this house, and make their ways into the wide world on their own strength of character.
premlata wanted to go to college. you know, in your soul, as her mother, protector, champion, and her female mentor and guide, that she well ought to go. she has the intelligence. she has the character. all that stopped her was her father's arrogance.
you know your daughters were not born into this time in women's history to be pulled back from their complete potential and ability, and meant to be subjugated, quelled, reduced, to serving as menial clerks in a video warehouse!!!!
I am apalled. Aren't you? if you cannot face it , then i shall face it for you: it is appalling. an ignorant waste and repression, an opression, of women, to the whims and wills of nondeserving men.

daya should be recording and performing, in the real world at large, and have a career of her own reknown, right up there alongside any other female star in the music stores and concert tours.
You know it. everyone knows it. How dare her father reduce her to this?!
And why don't you rise up and counter him with the truth you know is your daughter's rightful choice in life?
Both your daughters' rightful choices in life!!!
he can get any one of a number of eager, waiting peopel to fill their posts at visions or EV!!! how spirit-breaking and demeaning of him to force them to to work there! as if they are chattel, ignorant, uneducated, and exist like refugees!!
Doesnt this outrage you? Who can counter him in their defense, except you?

And if he refuses to yield to reason, both theirs and yours?
How is he gonna stop you from making up your mind to leave? Or stop the kids from going with you?
It can't be because of the money and the trappings of the high life. You have deeper perceptions than that. You used to live out of your van at the curb! It isn't that.
If you make up your mind to go, your kids will go with you, and they will help you. At the very least, your daughters will understand and come with you.
I understand Hans isn't thrilled with dad's rule either. he may well defect with you too.

you may think you're facing this all alone, but you are far from alone. We await you with great concern. Women before you have done it with steel in their eyes and iron in their backs. You have support. They are not surrounding you now, there, where you live. At home, you are encircled by lies and sycophancy. No one will dare speak the truth in that environment. You know this, you despair of ever getting out.
But you can, and you need to.
it is entirely possible that your stroke was the result of the tension inside you, between what the real you knows, down deep, and the charade you have to play out, in order to stay there.

You will find that if you leave, the tension is gone. The question is answered. There is relief. The whole rest of the world is different, Marolyn. Out here, there is freedom. Out here, you can be any way you feel like, and no one cares if you do or don't. You can say what you really think. You can feel how you really feel. You can get good and dirty and not give a damn if someone doesnt like it.
You can be real again. You can be yourself again. You can be friends with real, unvarnished,straight people again.

You can have sex with real men, again.
wow.

and your kids can become who they really are in life, not some bizarre cartoon objects of stilted cult worship,sealed off from having genuine relationships, and caught under glass forever by their father's delusions of grandeur and his imaginary empire, built on other people's labor and toil.

free yourself, and free your kids, while theres still time to, marolyn.

let your kids grow up as johnsons, not rawats. let them have normal lives.

the world is waiting for you to come back. it misses you, and when you get out, you'll be astonished to realize how much you were missing it.

listen to your deepest self. it wants out. it knows how unhappy and unreal this all is.
and your kids know it too. take them by the hands and walk . you are all strong enough to do it and never look back.

janet schwartz
venice beach
310-399-3329

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 16:25:28 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Very honest and sincere
Message:
Janet,

I was writing a letter to Marolyn myself but I had other things to do when I stopped. This is absolutely the best thing you can do for Marolyn. She is no longer at threat of having her children taken away and needs to realize that she CAN do it on her own.

Even if Marolyn does not denounce her husband's work but leaves for her own peace of mind. One step at at time when get the journey accomplished.

She invited you to her wedding, you stood up for her and you are continuing to do stand up for her, for what it is best.

What an honor for her to have you as a friend, Janet. How lucky she was to have you then, and have you now.

I met Marolyn and was impressed. We had a very pleasant and non-cultish exchange. I would also be willing to embrace her as a friend if she needed people to assist her through this time.

Do your best to get in touch with her Janet. You are a very capable person, I am sure.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:58:26 (EDT)
From: Jane
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: an open letter to marolyn
Message:
Very Direct letter Janet. You referred to Premlata wanting to go to college and Maharaji forbidding It. I have looked in previous posts and I know nothing of that. Could you give more details as to the situation and how you Know of that? Also you say Hansi isnt into his fathers game. Again, could you give a few details?? Thanks, Jane
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:57:16 (EDT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: ex disagrees with ex
Message:
This isnt a perfect post because I am in a hurry- so dont get offended.

I dont think it is a good idea to speculate what an affair did for her or what she experienced in someones arms or when Mable fooled around.
We cant know that.
I think she is trapped as in a battered wife syndrome- only this is fear- of -god-husband syndrome and to continue like this will send her children the message that this kind of trap is what they should seek.
Hope she calls you-
Z

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:23:31 (EDT)
From: Ann
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: You are fucked up
Message:
Who are you to preach?

What gives you the power to judge?

Do you not even know these people that you judge.

Go fuck yourself, you repugnat, righteous worm.

Ann

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 04:40:29 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Ann
Subject: Re: You are fucked up
Message:
ann--you ask of me,in hot offense, as if it were YOU that this letter is addressing,
'Who are you to preach?
What gives you the power to judge?'
I am you, in another skin. I am marolyn, in another time and place.
I am another woman, watching a sister suffer, in a trap she doesnt think she can leave. I was her, once, and I know every inch of the road.
I am a grown woman, who has survived and defied and forged my own course, in the face of the opposition and honeyed persuasions of a man similar to hers. I left my power-tripping, overcontrolling, life-choice-making father, with no help from a mother who retreated into pills and alcohol, rather than hold her ground before him. I see it happening again here.
I am a wisened and tempered woman, who has endured, not one, not two, but three different longterm relationships, that promised marriage, but ended in domestic violence against me. All ended with police action. two ended with the men's arrests and jail. and for me, battered women's counseling-- and new strength. I took it because i thought is was noble . i put up eith their abuse because i thought i was the better person. I stayed because I couldnt see any other way. I stayed because i thought i had to. I stayed because i thought they were telling me the truth when they blamed me and told me how wwrong i did things and how i'd be nowhere without them to protect me and no one else would have me and there was nowhere i could go that they wouldnt find me.
you have no idea the terror i had to bring myself to defy, to get to the point where I finally broke down and realized the police had to handle it, not me-- because they were each quite capable and
in a whim to snuff me out and go find someone else.
the first one suffocated me for being unhappy that he did the laundry and turned everything blue.
the second one made a scene over my laying awake in the dark, unable to sleep, for hours, while he slept. the third one pulled a knife on me for asking ehy the take out dinner had fourside dishes and not two.
nuts? yes. crazy and dangerous enough, after years of trying to please them, to know it was time to leave. if something this small drove them to try to take my life, it was finally time to let someone bigger come in and get me out-- while i still could. the third guy i broke my leg for, trying to do what he wanted to spend the day doing, and started to whine and get cranky when i hinted that i wasnt feeling like it. six months in a wheelchair folowwed--as a prisoner of his, utterly dependent on him, to feed me, bathe me, push me,--and afraid the whole time, of his temper, his touchiness and unable to just leave.
I see marolyn in the same straits now. her aneurism. her aftercare. her fragility. she's a prisoner of her circumstances, afraid to leave, afraid to face it.

I am a keenly tested woman, who has borne a son out of wedlock, in the face of family uproar, that i would not have the father as my husband, because he did not value me as i know i am due.

I am a woman who suffered unadvised months locked in a psychiatric hospital, because my father paid the doctors to do it, despite their medical opinion that I did not display any need of it, all so that he could fabricate a case for court, to wrest cusody of my son and raise him, in his million dollar indulgence, to satisfy his lifelong disappointment that my mother bore him no male children.
I spent 16 years alone, carving out what i knew was meant to be mine, without help, before i got him back.
I have made myself what i am, without any help from the men I looked to, whom I trusted to be worthy of it, men who only chained me down and undervalued me and made my way harder-- , both the rich and powerful kind, that govern their world by brooking zero oppostion to their all-controlling authority, as well as the infantile,self absorbed kind, who think women are their mothers, in existence only for the purpose of babying them and serving their tantrums and humoring their precious moods and wants, and the egotistical kind who think all women are to be insulted, abused, used, strung along, kept waiting, distrusted, and blamed for their discontent.
I am not a hater of men. But i have had my cinderella myths wiped away. I have had to grow my own strength and brains. I have had to stop hoping a man would come and save me. I had to stop waiting for god to come and save me. I had to come to the realization that no one was gonna save me, that my life and how it was doing was of no importance to anyone but myself, and that the only one who could save it was me. I had to make a move. I had to do it. For me.

Do you not even know these people that you judge.
Yes i do.

Go fuck yourself, you repugnant, righteous worm.
allow me to use your words as a teaching example, of exactly what I came to recognize in the classes at the safehouse:

these are the verbal weapons of abuse. they are the language of a person who places others below them. such a person has no self respect or self worth. they do not value themselves or others. in all liklihood, these are the same violent blows they themselves received from those they looked to for help and trust as child.

these are the same messages they received about themselves, and came to accept as true . these words are the models they learned to think in, of themselves, and of others.
these words were uttered by figures they perceived as having more power, more strength, more ability, more knowing about the world than they had. They put these people in a position above themselves, and therefore believed that what was said to them had to be more valid than anything they might think for themsleves. They internalized this belief and tried to comply with it.
They therefore believed that if they could just do the right thing and pleased this person, that the person would treat them nicely.
It is an impossible task, firstly because the abuser also lives in a perpetual state of fear, and feels threatened by everyone and anything in their vicinity that might reveal their internal sense of instability. They cannot afford to let anyone around them know they are merely human, can be vulnerable, can be weak. They can not afford to give ground. So they must present a ferocious exterior at all times. Their discontent must always be the other person's fault. The other must always be wrong and they must always be right, to maintain power over, and control.

in truth, such an abuser is extremely weak. they will kill another to silence the truth, so great is their fear.

Unthinkable things take place when the abused first begins to break the cycle of abuse. They act of their own volition. They do not consult the abuser for their permission. They leave and refuse to engage. They make their own decisions. They do not play. They speak with others and act on it. They go where they sh. They converse with whomever they wish. They leave and cannot be round. They go to a place where there is protection and the abuser cannot get in to reach them. The law is called in, takes over the danger on their own decision, apart from the endangered one, and sumarily removes the abuser from free association from society. The formerly abused becomes aware, savvy, intelligent, versed, smarter, and begins to know their innate strengths. They change. They grow into someone far different from what they were when the abuser could manipulate them. The abuser steadily shrinks in power. The abuser no longer holds anything the formerly abused believed they needed. The now grown and graduated woman knows what she can do, in and of herself, using her own brains, determnation, resourcefulness, creativity and will.
The fears she once believed would wipe her out if she left him have been met and seen for what they are in real life, and she knows now that they are nothing to be feared. She can do it. Whatever it might be. What was once the terrifying unknown is now the known and old hat. And she knows that if she could do it, any woman can do it. so she reaches out tothe women she sees who are cowering and trapped where she used to be.

ask yourself, ann--
who used that language on you? who speaks to you like that? how do they treat you? are you worthy of that? do you think you are?
worms are actually innocent, naked and very helpful little creatures. I raise them for my organic garden. i think humans and worms are the only creatures on earth that go thru life with fully naked skins. you cant much more vulnerable than that.

and in point of reality, it is not possible for a human being to fuck themselves. it takes two, ideally, consenting parties of like mind, and mutual approval, and quite a bit of wide open vulnerability, at least for the duration. and like worms, they must get naked for it to happen.

repugnant?
first i'd like you to define 'pugnant'. can't have a 're' without a first.

and agasin, I would ask you to ask yourself why a letter I would write to someone else would bring such a rise out of YOU?-- ask yourself what in it hits you where you live, that you would find it upsetting to hear one woman encourage and support and appeal to another, seeing her trapped and suffering, to leave a situation not healthy or honest for her anymore, or encouraging her to champion her children's rights to seek the courses in life they feel is right for them??

why would such a thing bring such a reaction out of you??????

would it matter or make a difference if it was adressed to you??

is it possible your own situation merits the same encouragement?
if so,please take it, if you need any. by all means.
denial is a ferocious beast. it dies slowly, long and painfully.

Odd. this letter was not adressed to you, but you answer as if it was. why is that?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 08:46:25 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Ann
Subject: How nice of you Ann...
Message:
Janet is a brilliant woman. She's hit the nail right on the head with Marolyn.

Who are you to judge her?

Marolyn is caught up in the battered woman syndrome. That much is obvious.

Good post, Janet--I couldn't add another word, you said it all.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:12:12 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Ann
Subject: Re: You are fucked up
Message:
This actually brings up quite an interesting point. Do we, those of us who have had knowledge for over half our lives, know 'these people' or not? Does it only count if we were pams? I distinctly remember one of the first satsangs Marolyn gave after the marriage, saying this family was complete with a new mother.....etc etc or some such. I've got it in a drawer. So I ask , what do you all feel? Do we 'know' them or are they to be delegated to the celebrity status than puts us in the fan status?
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:12:00 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Ann
Subject: Re: You are fucked up
Message:
This actually brings up quite an interesting point. Do we, those of us who have had knowledge for over half our lives, know 'these people' or not? Does it only count if we were pams? I distinctly remember one of the first satsangs Marolyn gave after the marriage, saying this family was complete with a new mother.....etc etc or some such. I've got it in a drawer. So I ask , what do you all feel? Do we 'know' them or are they to be delegated to the celebrity status than puts us in the fan status?
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:11:56 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Ann
Subject: Re: You are fucked up
Message:
This actually brings up quite an interesting point. Do we, those of us who have had knowledge for over half our lives, know 'these people' or not? Does it only count if we were pams? I distinctly remember one of the first satsangs Marolyn gave after the marriage, saying this family was complete with a new mother.....etc etc or some such. I've got it in a drawer. So I ask , what do you all feel? Do we 'know' them or are they to be delegated to the celebrity status than puts us in the fan status?
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:13:17 (EDT)
From: my comp is psyco tonite
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Re: You are fucked up
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:25:50 (EDT)
From: Thelma the Church Lady
Email: None
To: my comp is psyco tonite
Subject: Now, btdt, is this anyway for a grandma to talk?;)
Message:
Pat:C)
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:27:27 (EDT)
From: your are fucked up
Email: None
To: Ann
Subject: even more
Message:
this is janet and if she wants to preach she can preach. And if you don't like it, go where people won't preach, da?
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:16:05 (EDT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Bravo! Kick ass!Nt!
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 18:01:02 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Michael Dettmers
Message:
Can someone bring what Michael just wrote over on LG and bring it here? He definitely has a way with words!
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 18:07:43 (EDT)
From: messengergirl
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Michael Dettmers Post from Life's Great
Message:
You accuse ex-premies of dragging “personal details of (Maharaji’s) life through the public swamp with the intent of skewing his reputation beyond recognition” and argue that this is taking freedom of speech too far.

If you are uncomfortable with the “freedom of speech” argument, how about “freedom of information.” If Maharaji, a public figure, sets himself up as a Master of _______ (you can fill in the blank with whatever suits your beliefs and/or experience), then information about his character and behavior are important considerations if a potentially interested person is to make an informed decision about whether or nor to follow him. Most importantly, one should be concerned if Maharaji practices what he preaches.

This information may also prove useful to current followers. Many recent defectors from the Maharaji cult have told me they left because they were very disturbed to find out about the behavior of the “behind the scenes” Maharaji that is totally at odds with what they believed and what he claims to offer. How, for instance, can an alcoholic claim to offer the means by which a person can experience true peace and fulfillment?

I and a number of other ex-premies, have documented in great detail the many inaccuracies, lies, and misrepresentations perpetuated by Maharaji’s organization about his persona. The ex-premie forums came into being to set the record straight. If the truth about Maharaji’s behavior is experienced by some as dragging him “through the public swamp with the intent of skewing his reputation beyond recognition,” then you only need look to Maharaji for bringing it upon himself. After all, he went to elaborate lengths to keep secret the truth about his behavior though his system of “X-rating” because he knew if such information was generally known by his potential and existing followers it would have a dramatic and negative impact upon his image and his credibility as the disseminator of truth.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:27:34 (EDT)
From: Ann
Email: None
To: messengergirl
Subject: Another fucked up
Message:
Mr Dettmers sworthmithing and inuendo doe not cut it.

Just read (if you kept a copy of the CAC site) his slow and pathetic apostatic rants. Is all there. Denial, denial, denial.

If I tell you your sister is a whore, it does not make it so, right? But now the burden is on you to tell the world that you don't have a sister.

Michael Dettmers is fucked up alright.

Ann

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 08:51:17 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Ann
Subject: How nice of you Ann...
Message:
Ann, et al,

Don't play different parts when an expert is on board (me).

You're lack of intelligence is showing dear. You don't hold a candle to Michael Dettmers.

And who is accusing who of cyberstalking? Michael Dettmers is an honest and forthright man. He's articulated himself beyond anything you and your set of characters has ever offered.

Go away, you cyberstalker, take your hate elsewhere.

Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:34:54 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Ann
Subject: Ann, you've missed the point.
Message:
Mr Dettmers sworthmithing and inuendo doe not cut it.

Just read (if you kept a copy of the CAC site) his slow and pathetic apostatic rants. Is all there. Denial, denial, denial.

If I tell you your sister is a whore, it does not make it so, right? But now the burden is on you to tell the world that you don't have a sister.

Michael Dettmers is fucked up alright.

Ann


---

Hi Anne,

Isn't it the case that you think anyone who leaves the cult, and has the courage to criticise that organisation and leader, is fucked up?

Do you believe you are a disciple of the Living Perfect Master who can do no wrong. If this is the case, it's you dear Ann, who is fucked up.

You're in a cult. Cult. CultCultCultCultCultCultCultCultCultCultCultCultCultCultCultCultCultCult

Maybe someday Ann, the veil will lift from your eyes too.

Anth once was lost etc.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:43:17 (EDT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: Ann
Subject: Get rid of this VC , Anne troll .nt
Message:
What a fucking dimwit !
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:58:53 (EDT)
From: Another messenger
Email: None
To: Ann
Subject: Ann aka VC etal
Message:
Why don't you just call yourself Touring Machine Cult Troll since your browser so easily identifies you? You are the only one with a Turing machine.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 20:40:49 (EDT)
From: Julian
Email: None
To: Another messenger
Subject: Ann is Catweasel
Message:
Catweasel, Victoria etc uses that anonymizer.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:52:11 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Julian
Subject: Re: Ann is Catweasel
Message:
I do not. You may check. Stop you silly games. I am not the person you mention
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 07:34:03 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: CW
Message:
I find it a bit interesting that you weren't about for a while then suddenly you surface after CAC decided to remove their shit-stirring stuff.

Anything you would like to enlighten us with.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:34:06 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Re: CW
Message:
Nah. You haven't been paying attention Salam. I have been around. Do you think this may be the calm before the storm?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:53:49 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Re: CW
Message:
I don't know mate, you tell me. I don't walk in the limelight of gurudome anymore, how can I tell?

You being a renagade, probably know better. My guess: the juju is licking his self inflicted wounds. He spent a lot of time planning this shit and it backfired real bad.

And if there is a storm, I don't think it's coming from your side?

So what do you think?

[how do you like it with those morons closing ag, the cunts.]

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Date: Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 06:10:07 (EDT)
From: CW
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Re: CW
Message:
It's just the thin edge of the wedge in my opinion. There's a few here who take themselves a wee bit too serious. That stuff ole Pat is cookin? How thick is he? Think about it this way. There is an international group that is very well resourced , clued up and never set foot into these places. You and your buddies throw acres of shit around for over three years. Two pissant nobody public defenders put up this charade of legal expertise. And then when it's all said and done , it's all the work of one lone nutter, me , the weasel.
Ohh I dont think so. I REALLY find it flattering but no I really dont think so..................
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 00:16:42 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Many thanks, CW
Message:
I always love it when people underestimate me. Keep up the good work.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:37:14 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Ann
Subject: Shooting blanks, Ann?
Message:
You're damned right just because someone says something true doesn't mean it is. But what exactly are you saying Mike's wrong about? Speaking of whores, are you saying that Maharaji did not get Mike to pick up premie women for him? Yes or no? What are you talking about? Are you saying that Maharaji did not kill the bicyclist and scramble to have someone else take responsibility?

It's pretty pathetic when you premies can't even come right out and say what you're taking issue with. All that tells me is that you know it's all true. You just don't like it, that's all.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:35:49 (EDT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Ann
Subject: Re: Another fucked up
Message:
Ann,

By your response, I take it that you think I am lying. What is your proof that I am lying? And, if I am not lying, what then? My guess is that you don't care, which is your right. As I said in my further response to Richard II:

Richard, in response to the question, 'How, for instance, can an alcoholic claim to offer the means by which a person can experience true peace and fulfillment?', you say:

”Simple. The two are mutually exclusive. If someone can show you the truth that is unquestionably within, and is beyond time and space – the truth that can truly set you free – then who cares how he chooses to live his life?”

Most intelligent people would disagree with you. That is why people are leaving your cult and why few Western people want anything to do with it.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 20:56:28 (EDT)
From: Sergio M
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Dettmers Lying?
Message:
Quoted:
By your response, I take it that you think I am lying. What is your proof that I am lying? And, if I am not lying, what then? My guess is that you don't care, which is your right

Your are lying now or then?

This is a copy of your post when you got embroiled with the ex-premie.org

Post by Michael Dettmers:
'I have no intention of engaging in rumour and gossip, nor doing of saying anything that disparages Maharajior my past involvement with him. In my years of working with him, I acted, at all times and to the best of my ability, with honesty and integrity. Although my life has long since moved on in a new and different direction, I honor and take full responsibility for my past. The time I spent with Maharaji were important years in my life, and I continue to derive great benefit from what he taught me.'

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 20:04:24 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: at last an honest premie
Message:
Richard 11 says: ''If someone can show you the truth that is unquestionably within, and is beyond time and space – the truth that can truly set you free – then who cares how he chooses to live his life?”'

The truth here of course being socalled Knowledge. If saomeone gives you this ephemeral and subjective Knowledge then it does not matter if he is a criminal.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:35:32 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Of COURSE a drunk can give you Knowledge…
Message:
‘OK, y’ready…? Right (hic). Light technique…goesh like thish….

‘kay, watch my fingers…like this – oopsh, no, wrong hand…waidaminute. This hand. Right hand. You taking the piss, or what…? Hee-hee. There like this… Hey, isn’t it’s your round, pal? What about some gratitude up front? (hic…giggle). ‘kay, got that? Fingers jusht sho. There! My old dad told me that one. Did I ever tell you that? My dear old dad…all those years ago (sigh…sniffle…) Where was I? Music… Ah sweet, swwet music. Music of of the soul.. did I tell you you’re my besht friend….hic…zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz……’

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 13:00:20 (EDT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: And be sure to subscribe
Message:
to my monthly publication 'Double Visions'............. Burrrrrrrp....., before you leave the session
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:08:26 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Oh that is FUNNY! nt…
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 16:35:35 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Ditto })
Message:
You guys cracked me up.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:42:09 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: hysterical
Message:
That had me belly-laughing over my coffee at the crack of dawn. Best comedy piece ever on the forum.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 08:55:58 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Definitely a keeper, Nigel... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 06:54:37 (EDT)
From: Vizions International
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: That's a Keeper, Nigel [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:22:30 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: ...and devotees can worship a drunken guru
Message:
Kabir was a well known sot and adored by thousands. Say hi to that warp-speed mole for me.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 19:54:46 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: The Lifers who will not leave the cult ..
Message:
will find the cult disintegrating around them. As you say, Michael, few Westerners want anything to do with it. Zealots scream the loudest--good lord!
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 18:03:28 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Re: Michael Dettmers
Message:
Michael Detters wrote on LG:

You accuse ex-premies of dragging “personal details of (Maharaji’s) life through the public
swamp with the intent of skewing his reputation beyond recognition” and argue that this is
taking freedom of speech too far.

If you are uncomfortable with the “freedom of speech” argument, how about “freedom of
information.” If Maharaji, a public figure, sets himself up as a Master of _______ (you can fill
in the blank with whatever suits your beliefs and/or experience), then information about his
character and behavior are important considerations if a potentially interested person is to
make an informed decision about whether or nor to follow him. Most importantly, one should
be concerned if Maharaji practices what he preaches.

This information may also prove useful to current followers. Many recent defectors from the
Maharaji cult have told me they left because they were very disturbed to find out about the
behavior of the “behind the scenes” Maharaji that is totally at odds with what they believed
and what he claims to offer. How, for instance, can an alcoholic claim to offer the means by
which a person can experience true peace and fulfillment?

I and a number of other ex-premies, have documented in great detail the many inaccuracies,
lies, and misrepresentations perpetuated by Maharaji’s organization about his persona. The
ex-premie forums came into being to set the record straight. If the truth about Maharaji’s
behavior is experienced by some as dragging him “through the public swamp with the intent of
skewing his reputation beyond recognition,” then you only need look to Maharaji for bringing it
upon himself. After all, he went to elaborate lengths to keep secret the truth about his
behavior though his system of “X-rating” because he knew if such information was generally
known by his potential and existing followers it would have a dramatic and negative impact
upon his image and his credibility as the disseminator of truth.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 17:40:24 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: These Boots Are Made For Stalkin'...
Message:
and that's just what I'll do!
One a these days my mind is gonna stalk all over you!

Da da da DA..Da da da DA..!

I am going to stalk every asshole premie who comes onto this forum and tries to abuse anyone, including me, here. I've had it.

Sue me.

I'm sick of this shit here. I think Maharaji is among the worst of all humans who ever lived--some of his followers are emulating him. Words cannot describe the bad day I am having here. So, Here's a poem I wrote. I own it, copywrite Cynthia J. Gracie, 1985:

We raised our drinks
to toast a new horizon.
Tilted them back--trooths
in the face of Truth.
Swallowed by the throat of the monster,
I sat comfortably, spitting
confessions that spilled into
ears of regression.
Another Session discarding my dignity
to the arms of decayed integrity.
I told, savored, kissed, and swore
I'd never been so excited by words.
Given in the trance, the eyes of
a viper, whose untold reputation
beheld my degradation.
We raised our arms, toasting.
It was the fantasy of deception.

Enough is enough, Maharaji. Haven't you done enough harm? How many things do you need before you are satisfied with this life? How many more lives will you ruin in the process of your greed?

Have you no shame? Have you no shame?

You hide behind people you use people to support you. Have you no shame?

Sue me. Go ahead. Splatter my name all over the place. I'm sooooo 'sceered!

By way. Since everyone is so enthralled by using different names and not signing posts here. I decided I would come out that I have DID. Dissociative Identity Disorder, formerly known as MPD. I'm one whole person with a few folks in my head. Deal with it. Believe it.

You can't stop me. I've always been true to my identity, my whole person, Cynthia. But I still have bits inside who have names and things to say.

I'll always post as Cynthia channeling ?????, just so you know.

So....how 'bout 'dem apples?

Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:41:29 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Are you ready boots...start stalking
Message:
Da da da DA..Da da da DA..!

You keep saying you got something for me,

Something you call LOVE, but Confess,

You've been a messin where you shouldn't be a-messin,

And what's right is right,...AND you ain't been right yet

These boots were made for stalking, And that's just what they'll do.

One of these days, these boots are gonna walk all over YOU. })

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 20:10:44 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: very good poem Cynthia
Message:
I've saved it (just to read sometime) I was saying to a friend yesterday that I wonder if the great sentence the shrinks pronounced upon me is accurate at all and that I think I am more post traumatic than anything else.

Whatever they call it, and whoever you are at the moment at least you are outfront about it and it's all you. Stalkers suck. How easy to feel superior when one sits in the bleachers and criticises the calls without risking anything at all. fuck em. And thanks.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 08:40:22 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Thanks, Selene...Just a tantrum...
Message:
I had a close encounter of the ''father'' kind recently and am quite triggered.

I'm okay today, (I hope), but when I went over to LG (which I won't be doing again) I literally got emotionally sick.

Part of me wants to quit this forum, but I don't want to just yet.

I'm so tired of the hatred focused on people here that I have grown so fond of, like you and the many others who have been trying so hard to be rid of the rawat shit. And the actual damage being done to those whose names are being published is beyond the pale.

Thanks again,
Love,
cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 19:46:46 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Thanks, Selene...Just a tantrum...
Message:
Cynthia, I got the boot from Lies Great, and I don't miss it at all.

And ever since the CAC thing happened, I don't ever want to post there again. Furthermore, I have given their names to an undisclosed source and don't trust any premies as far as I can throw them. Exceptions, of course, are the premies who have proven themselves.

Besides they are just angry men over there. No babes like Forum VII. Allthe babes quit and now it's just culted testererone with some sexy exes thrown in to rattle their cage.

Email me sometime :)

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:15:38 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: quitting doesn't work for me
Message:
But I know what you mean I think I need a long break am slowly working on it. I'm losing perspective and it doesn't help me or anyone when I get emotional. Plus work is a priority.
Best of luck, just in case I am not around. :)
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:18:10 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Re: quitting doesn't work for me
Message:
Lately I've been mostly reading here. My husband worries, but I tell him I'm okay with it.

I can't quit this place. But I might take a break....time will tell..

Thanks for your support...
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:39:33 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: breaks are healthy
Message:
And there's only so much energy to spare.
Of course I stand behind everyone here and will answer email and continue to read.
Just need to catch up on some stuff in my LIFE. Everything always seems to happen at once doesn't it?
OK be good to yourself.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 17:29:22 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: All
Subject: my hit on CAC
Message:
If I had to pick one premie most likely to be behind CAC, I'd pick R2(Richard II). Of all the premie's posts I've read over the years, this guy is the most caustic, most organized and most literate. He also seems to be enraged in a quiet and deliberate way. And he seems to know about background and posts of exes in extreme detail. Yep, I'd put my money on R2 as Boris.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 21:48:02 (EDT)
From: witch
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Re: my hit on CAC
Message:
He probably knows Valerio Pascotto too.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 21:38:34 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: I think Richard 2 is Nil
Message:
And I think somebody else as well, can't recall right now, but he is equally irritating and unabashedly nasty. I wouldn't put it past him.

He is kind of scary. I have this image of him wringing his hands in the bathroom, gritting his teeth anytime we say anything negative about Maharaji. I am concerned that he now knows where I work.

Really, scary person. Totally immersed, dedicated devotee of the Fakiranand/David Smith variety.

And like most other premie devotees, he is COMPLETELY HUMORLESS.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:47:36 (EDT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: nil and remember mirror ? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:44:13 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: I think Richard 2 is Nil
Message:
Hi Joe,
Okay, I remember Nil. I remember one particular exchange and although I can't remember the details, I remember the terrible feeling I felt afterwords.

Perhaps R2's comment about 'accountibility' would be grounds for a restraining order. Just thinking aloud.

Your image of him in the bathroom, wringing his hands, is spot on. He'd have to be in the bathroom, a very white bathroom, and brightly lit; hardly enough room to turn around in. Definitely this fellow hasn't seen the sun in a long time.

By the way, I don't know if you saw my post in response to your visit, but yeah, please stop by if you come. I can get you guest passes if you're not getting a room. I just need a couple of days notice.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:50:45 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Thanks, Rick
Message:
For your post above, in support of me. I really appreciate it.

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 18:11:59 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: R2 certainly has the right mentality
Message:
You might well be right, Rick. Here's an LG post from R2 to Joe someone sent me this morning:

In your posts on F7 you’ve made a grand effort to justify your public assault against Maharaji by aligning yourself behind the virtues of free speech. Of course freedom of expression is something modern society views as an inalienable right, which in principle I agree with. But like all visionary ideas tainted by the imperfect hand of human beings there sometimes comes a point when the assertion of a freedom can take away the freedom of someone else. In my opinion ex-premies, and you in particular Joe, are straddling this line.

You see Joe, it’s not just a case of freedom of speech for you. Speaking for myself, if it was just that I could accept your opinion even though it is quite different from mine. No, you are not just presenting another opinion when you drag personal details of a man’s life through the public swamp with the intent of skewing his reputation beyond recognition. What you are engaged in is an active campaign to prevent Maharaji doing what he has been doing for 30 years, and to stand in the way of others who could benefit from his help. You justify this on the unilateral judgement you’ve made based on your experience, that is, because it didn’t benefit you then nobody should benefit from it. This, even in the face of you knowing of many who say they have greatly benefited from having been associated with Maharaji, and who have even stated through close personal contact a completely different perception than you of Maharaji's actions and motives. It is reprehensible that your reaction to him now that you’ve rejected his teachings is so spiteful. And Joe because of this agenda of yours, any virtues you may possess, that BTW you often try and use to shield yourself from personal criticism, is nullified. In my opinion, and the opinion of many, any integrity you may flaunt for this purpose does not justify the confusion you espouse. If free speech is your sacred cow, then let me ask, would you give someone permission to use it against you like you have against Maharaji?

Express your freedom as much as society can support you Joe, but in the expression understand that in the end you, like all of us, will be accountable for what you do.

Well this is just the classic reaction of a religious fanatic against free speech which threatens his faith. He has nothing valid to say in Maharaji's defense so the best he can do is try to intimidate those who speak out against him. Really, he doesn't sound a whole lot different than the Taliban crew. They're all for free speech too, just so long as you say nothing to question or, God forbid, disparage their religion.

But how ridiculous, huh? Only a blind cult member would fail to acknowledge that Maharaji's life and character is ground-zero relevant to these discussions. Of course, what Richard really wants is that there be no discussions. Imagine, for a second, that CAC won it's harrassment campaign. First Sir Dave but then all of us decided that it just wasn't worth the embarrassment or worse the cult was going to exact from us for speaking out. So we stopped. No more ex-premies on-line. JHB sinks EPO, JM finally returns all the library's old guru books and we all just kind of slink off, hoping, as we go, that CAC will please just leave us alone. Frightened and silenced.

What then? Would premies like R2 or Cat or SC or Glasser finally feel vindicated, like they'd won somehow? Yes, they'd shown us, huh? No one's gonna talk about my guru like that and get away with it! These guys got off light this time. But if they ever start up again, it won't necessarily be just words next time. And no, it's not as if we didn't warn them.

This is sheer fanaticism. And folks like R2 are already proudly marching down that road.

Too bad for Maharaji, however, that most premies aren't so fanatical. They will take an interest in the truth about Maharaji, given enough time. The cult will fall to ruin and all but the most hardcore fanatics will see that decline soon if they don't already.

As I've said so many times, our own personal lives are irrelevant save and except for where we're asking people to rely on our credibility about what we've seen, heard or done. Our credibility's not an issue if all we're doing is advancing arguments based on the public record. Maharaji's quotes, for instance, are part of the public record. EV's comments about what Maharaji has said and what he hasn't are too. So when one of us calls EV a liar, for instance, for saying that Maharaji never claimed to be God, that person's character and background is entirely irrelevant. Yet that's all people like R2 can talk about. It's pathetic, desparate, transparent and completely counter-productive. But what else can they do?

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 17:43:42 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: I agree! Good One! RtheII [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:31:35 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: jai_choix@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: red and then no red?
Message:
wha hoppen?
i saw that someone graciously changed the colors for a moment and added red to the blue-- and then suddenly its all back to blue again.

i had asked for GREEN for the visited links

and use RED instead of italics , for the present post that one was reading.

all that red was pretty nauseating, i agree. but its not what i had suggested.

i'm not THAT blind, guys!

can we try one more time? with green, not red?

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:39:03 (EDT)
From:  
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: red and then no red?
Message:
The colours have been changed to the original Forum 6 link, visited link and active link colours. Same as were on AG.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:45:59 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To:  
Subject: THANK YOU!!!!!!YESSSSSS....
Message:
THIS IS MORE LIIIIIIKE IT! YEAAAAHHHHHHH(6<6??)
MY GRATITUDE KNOWS NO BOUNDS.
OR MAYBE IT DOES. I WONT JUMP UP AND DOWN AND COVER YOU WITH SLOBBER LIKE A JOYFUL DOG. BUT I DO ACKNOWLEDGE THE TREMENDOUS IMPROVEMENT. THIS HITS THE SPOT JUST PERFECT.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:41:42 (EDT)
From: &nbsp;
Email: None
To:  
Subject: PS
Message:
I didn't do anything. I sent a telepathic command to Gerry.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 13:42:46 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Shri Paramhans Advait mat book updated
Message:
Check the new chapters now online, including a picture of the book.

More to come soon ...
[ The Holy Book ]

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:31:17 (EDT)
From: BTDT
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Shri Paramhans Advait mat book updated
Message:
Study group anyone? Yes, pleeeeeeaze Pat decipher this and get that banana man Such in on it. Your two brains together, merged, unlocking the mysteries of the mysterious, in regular English. I can hardly wait. I've tried reading it. I will read it all again, and then again. Crib(sp) notes would be valuable help!
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 18:39:22 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: You really hit paydirt, JM -- FANTASTIC!
Message:
You guys have to read the latest summary to all this hoary old hindu guru shit (which just happens to be the tradition we bought into, by the way). JM's got the goods on Shri Hans and how! Apparently, Maharaji's father simply out and started his own renegade, breakaway, unauthorized Knowledge dealership without really having his own guru's permission or support.

What an amazing farce.

Excellent, excellent work, JM.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 03:02:24 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Jim
Subject: Interesting no premies join in these threads, Jim
Message:
Must be deeply confronting, I reckon, to find your Living Master For The Age represents no more than another twig on this vast, sprawling, identikit bhakti-cult bush, none of whom presumably acknowledges any of the rival branches and twigs as being 'authentic', and all of whom presumably portray their own lineage as if it were a single, branchless, unbroken stem, running right back to krishna et al.

What a farce.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 20:06:10 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Exctasy holding this book in my hands
Message:
and bringing it home ! This is how I felt !!!!!!

I wasn't into finding this book at all, believe me. I was at my uncle's, and we were discussing about some US modern authors. Then he connected his library's private bbs to check some references, then to another bbs. I got amazed by their system, and asked him to search for this book out of pure curiosity.

Of course they had the book at Harvard (which was the goal of our next visit). We went there, but the possibility that very book was there and available and that they would allow me to look at it were remote. Believe it or not, they allowed me in in a matter of minutes, and my uncle borrowed the book in another couple of minutes ! I couldn't believe it. So much grace !!!!!!!

Making the photocopies was the hard part, because the air conditioning wasn't working, but that's another story. You have to suffer when you do service I guess !!!!!

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 23:23:53 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Will the real satguru please stand up?
Message:
Has anyone seen the recent videos put out by visions in the last year or so that deal with some of the 'history' of knowledge?

Some of this may be in the new 'Foundations' videos (which I heard were given a '2 thumbs down' by many of the more indedpendent minded premies...a few even ventured to say that m should 'keep the day job', and quit dabbling in things that he stinks at, like music, poetry and nature videos...)

However, I think in the last year or so, a video was made about the history of knowledge according to m.
The reason I say this is interesting is that I believe it is more of m trying to inoculate himself or pre-empt the other versions of history by getting his version out first.
A friend told me that in the m video, they said that shri hans split from the fold, because the original group wouldn't let women participate as equals...something like that...they painted a picture of shri hans rejecting an archaic, unfair system in order to open it up to more people on a more equal basis...

Now we find out that possibly he just left the succession, because he wasn't really the true successor.
Was he a 'renegade' satguru?

I think it would be VERY interesting to find this visions video about the history of k according to m.
It would be interesting to compare the two of them.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:42:46 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: The real irony
Message:
You know, JM, it's possible that Maharaji knows nothing at all about this stuff. Maybe no one ever told him. In which case, one has to wonder if he's not secretly fascinated by this history. Are the EV monitors reporting any of this to their superiors? Is Maharaji getting briefed?

By the way, Maharaji, that snake, Jean Michele, has apparently gotten this old Indian book that cuts your father right out of the lineage and describes some other guru as Swarupee Dupee's successor. He's even putting the whole damn thing online.

He is, is he? Hm, print me a copy of that shit, will you?

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 21:07:20 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Many, many thanks, J-M [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 22:34:04 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: To Pat, as you're a specialist
Message:
I'm sure you've read all this stuff, and you'll read what's still to come.

Would you care making some comments for each chapter/section?

There is a lot of very interesting information, but the problem is that it's mixed with too much satsang/comments, and unless you read the whole thing which is very very boring for the most part, you don't find or you miss what's really interesting.

Some comments would make the reading easier I guess.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:23:55 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: You flatter me, monsieur
Message:
I am not sure that I know any more about his Hindu bindu juju than you do, Jean-Michel, but I am itching to deconstruct it. As soon as I get back from vacation sometime in mid September I will be reading and making notes. And I will be delighted to share my studies with all, being that I am the most opinionated asshole in thw world (said to me by an industrial strength church lady.) It will be my pleasure. Merci beaucoup, once again.

PS Jim - Rev Rawat will say about his stuff: ''So what! My certificate to be the living perfect master hangs in the hearts of my premies. Who cares about tradition or erudition?''

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:22:34 (EDT)
From: bdtd
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: You flatter me, monsieur
Message:
You certainly are one of the funniest!!! Industrial strenghth church ladies, indeed! I'm 'rotflmao'-as the teenagers in the house say.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:28:03 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: bdtd
Subject: btdt, what the fuck is ''rotflmao?''
Message:
My baby is 28 so I don't have teens in the house.

BTW, I was just thinking about you grandmas (you and Peg and a bunch of other exes) today. When we talk here I often think of us as we were 30 years ago - bright eyed and bushy tailed kids ourselves) when all the while we are grandparents and old geezers discovering the new democracy of the net.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:26:22 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: btdt, what the fuck is ''rotflmao?''
Message:
Ready?.....'rolling on the floor laughing my 'arse' off'!

I recently attended a gathering of my high school classmates. They were all complaining about getting old, etc and there I sat, ever so smugly, telling them 'Gosh I feel younger and younger.' Of course, that was about a week before I arrived on this site......I've actually been wondering about this. Are we locked in some sort of emotional time warp? All those years of not dealing with the 'outside' producing a sort of stunted grownth? I kept thinking they looked like adults and I didn't feel like an adult at all. Of course, every adult like situation, and there have been a great deal as with all of us, was attributed to M's grace pulling me through. Now, when something particularly nasty is going out there in the world, I feel lost at sea for a few moments. No M's lifesaver ring of grace. I have to remember to breathe, ask the universe for a reality check and move on. Very disconcerting (sp) this. I'm sure we'd all make for a fasinating psyco thesis study!!!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 15:47:11 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: I am ''rotflmao''
Message:
Yep, no one believes I am 54 either.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 20:29:06 (EDT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Great information, an exciting find !
Message:
Congratulations Jean-Michel! for bringing this important information to the table. Another piece of the Puzzle for those with inquiring minds to get to the truth about the convoluted background of DLM and its legacy. Way to go....
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:31:51 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Shri Paramhans Advait mat book updated
Message:
Risking my ignorance, would it be possible for you to explain any of this? Or perhaps, Suchabanba would be able to help? It is too much for a commoner. Bottom line, did Shri Maharaji's guru appoint that other guy as divine or just a chief, CEO-type? And what happened to that guy? And, and, and, and......okay too many questions. I always get in trouble for asking tooooooooooooo many questions. BUT I GOTTA KNOW!!!!
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:56:46 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: read and be amazed
Message:
start with the stuff at EPO about the indian roots of gmj's and shri hans's religion. that alone will really open your eyes. then if you wish, go to yahoo and look up the 'Radhasoami' club and ask them about shri hans and their gurus. i posted there some months ago and asked them to tell me what they knew about hans from their side of their lore, and it was pretty chewy.
gmj is woefully ignorant of his own religious roots. he was brought up to beleive whatever his daddy told him was so, and he never bothered to find out any other way. theres a hell of a lot more to hans, to what he would have taught prem pal if he'd lived longer, and therefore more to us and what we have been doing, than we or gmj ever knew.
rawat can stay as ignorant as he wants. we can learn more and make our decisions based on far clearer education.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 13:36:27 (EDT)
From: Gail Macdougall
Email: None
To: All
Subject: What the hell is going on?
Message:
When did Forum #7 start. Deleted sections from EPO? What's up?
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:16:20 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Gail Macdougall
Subject: basically, sir dave was blackmailed off
Message:
i dont know how far back you last checked in--havent seen your name b4, so perhaps you're a loyal lurker?
but forum 6 was only up about 5 weeks before a vile and anonymous cell of fanatic and unethical premies named themselves the 'citizens against cyberstalkers' and put up a website masked to look as if it originated in russia, but was usa bnased. on it, these liars posed as if they were a vast affiliation of patriotic, righteous, lawabiding citizens dedicated to the superman ideal--and then put up separate biographies, each, about 11 of our sterling members, here, including photos, home and work addresses, phone numbers, family members and utterly twisted descriptions of their activities, personal pursuits, tastes,careers, and quotes of theirs from various online sites.
in other words, the authors of the website were stalkers, themselves, and gave information sufficient to let anyone else become stalkers of Jim, Joe, Pat, sir dave, anth and marianne--and others.
sir dave took te threats seriously and made a core decision to withdraw off the internet for the safety of his children. he complied with their demands to remove all his sites by noon of a given date.
so we had to start this one.
EV requested that the impression that they 'harbored' jagdeo be removed and less inflammatory words be used. since they have at least made the gesture of acknowledging the issue of late, by suing for jagdeo civilly in india, a corresponding gesture of goodwill on our part was reciprocated in kind. one can only hope it eases the tense stanse of years and allows for a new approach of reasonable acknowledgement of each others existence and valid discussions.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 18:44:35 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: basically, sir dave was blackmailed off
Message:
Thanks Janet.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 21:38:04 (EDT)
From: Here is
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: that blackmail email in full
Message:
From : kontchalovski@johndoes.org

To : sirdavid12@hotmail.com

Date : Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:55:29 GMT

Mr. Simpkiss:

We at CAC have received your offer.

If you take the steps that you have outlined in your message and cease
your cyberstalking activities, including:
- shutting down The Truth About Maharaji, Lord Maharaji's Domain
AND
- shutting down all the public forums that you own at hotboard.com
- not transfering the websites and forums to any others we will immediately remove from our web site your entire profile, the photo, and the metatags.

The public forums under your control are a gathering point for people to misuse the internet and to invade people's rights. If these people wish to assume the responsibility of doing so, they should do so from their own accord, not at your expense.

Send us an email indicating your complaince before noon, GMT, August 23 and we will immediately remove from our web site your entire profile, the photo, and the metatags.

Otherwise CAC activities will intensify.

CAC

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 23:53:40 (EDT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Here is
Subject: As Sir David aptly put it
Message:
so long ago: 'Where is our Lord on this dark night?'
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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 00:00:15 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Gail
Subject: Hey there Gail
Message:
How're you doing? Long time no talk. Some of the premies have sure taken a turn, haven't they?

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 08:38:38 (EDT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Bias
Message:
I posted my admiration for the site 'j'accuse'.
(GREAT site!!!) It is a letter to local authorities in Amaroo to warn against the cult and an open letter to rawat. It is written by the local Christian Churches. In my post I expressed my conviction that action from this side could probably crush the cult(connections , money and determination).
I noticed a bias against churches in some of the replies. I have this bias as well,very hard to acknowledge established religion as a genuine or valuable trait in our culture.
I try to have no opinion about the validity of religion, stay on the side of agnostics.
BUT:
I just know that I am biased against religion: From the cult I got my disdain for 'belief', (only experience counts), and from my rejection of the cult I got my apprehension of spirituality.
Of course anybody has the right to regard religion as an archaic and superstitious delusion of the uneducated and primitive.
BUT: I know that the most heavy luggage I have from this cult is this bias.
Most cultures vieuw religiousness as the higher expression of being human. It might not be so much the belief system as the perspective and inspiration which is behind that vieuw.
No matter where my journeys lead me, I have to be conscious of this bias. This is the complete travesty:'I will show you God', but instead an almost completely effective obstacle against....
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:17:37 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: Well said Bob
Message:
Lots of things in your post to think about.

Haven't the time to respond properly, but I agree with you by & large.

Pat Dorrity

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 08:08:03 (EDT)
From: Peg
Email: pmaccanner@hotmail,com
To: All
Subject: to btdt
Message:
Hi btdt
Would you like to be Emates?
I am also 50, a granny, new to the internet and (as you must Know) a new ex.
I'm sorry my naif indignance set you up but you seem a good sport.
Anyway if you fancy being my pen pal drop me a line.
Pegg
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:42:23 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: Jai_Choix@yahoo.com
To: Peg
Subject: Re: emates
Message:
peg--
i have enjoyed our exchanges here as well. i sent you a response from my home email name asking if you'd like to include me in your invitation as a buddy also. this email is my webmail i can get at from anywhere. i have msn instant messaging too, so when you're on your hotmail, you can pop in and say hi in realtime. its all on the front page at hotmail, what to do to get it, if you want.
no pressure. just an offer.

janet

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 13:16:33 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Re: to btdt
Message:
What a delightful invitation!
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 13:15:31 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Re: to btdt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 08:12:24 (EDT)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: I don't know why it says link there isn't one. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 05:18:58 (EDT)
From: Bang
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The lion and the baboon, continued.
Message:
The Lion rushed into the clearing, mad as hell, only to see this guy in the middle of the clearing reading a newspaper. Upon closer scrutiny, he realized that it was not a hunter at all, but a “ professional, albeit past his sellbydate, writer, who makes a living combing internet forums for filth to sell to the tabloids.” The lion could pick ‘em a mile off.
“Hey you” the lion roared, where’d that pesky baboon get to?
The writer started into some bullshit story, but the lion was listening with only half an ear. He was getting hungry and this writer looked plump and tender, well maybe not so tender but he was hungry.
Jumping upon the hapless writer, he informed him that he was about to be eaten, at which news the writer began to sob uncontrollably.
“You ex premies sure do cry a lot,” said the lion. “Times like this I like to mull the meaning of life, so if you don’t mind, I’ll start with your feet and work my way up”.
The writter screamed hysterically, so the lion cuffed him across the ears a couple of times and told him to behave like a man.
“Don’t know what you’re worried about, you’re about to merge with the divine unconsciousness. You do believe in a Creator I take it?”
At this point the writter really started to scream in terror.
“I don’t believe in anything anymore O mighty lion”
The lion was slowly munching his way up the writer’s legs. The screaming had stopped, as the writer looked like he was started to enjoy the sensation of being consumed by another.
The lion stopped for a moment and uttered thus. “ Life is about sharing and caring for others, looking beyond oneself”. As if to prove his point, he offered one of the writers testicles to him. “Best part” said the king of the jungle.
“ Don’t mind if I do” quipped the writer, and went at it with gusto.
By now the lion had reached the neck and here he stopped and observed that he was indeed full and would the writer mind very much if he saved his head for a bit later, to which the writer gave his heartfelt approval.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 16:10:30 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Bang
Subject: Don't give up the day job Bang. (nt)
Message:
oh yeah
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 15:10:44 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Bang
Subject: Re: The lion and the baboon, continued.
Message:
'but i'm afraid you can't have my heart' the writer apologized sadly.
'years ago i gave my heart to maharaji, and he never gave it back' he mourned,
'that's probably when i lost heart for the whole relationship. as you can see, I'm pretty much heartless'.
'why ,what a coincidence' remarked the Lion.'It so happens, so am I.'

and he ate him.
but the meal didnt stay down very long.
within moments, the lion was vomiting the writer back up (as you will note is the case with many people--they can't digest what they've taken in and merely puke it back up whole, unable to absorb it and make it a part of them) and the writer found himself composed fully once again.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 20:52:35 (EDT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Touchee! You are a much better novelist
Message:
Really Janet,

You can top this lame asshole any day. Does this idiot really think he's funny. That is such a stupid thing to say even as a joke.

The person is so dense he doesn't even realize we have Knowledge.

Oh, yea but I guess the electricity was turned off cuz we didn't pay our bill. Forgot! oops

Deborah

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:59:09 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Bang
Subject: just yer typical lyin' [nt]
Message:
git that banana outa yer butt, ya pervert!
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 00:45:14 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Has anyone saved this cac stuff?
Message:
Just wondering:

Has anyone saved all of this cac stuff, to be written up on the epo site, as further proof of the cults ongoing campaign to silence critics?

I suppose it could be in the section where the first attempt to get all of the sites knocked off line was tried and failed....
It certainly would make interesting reading for premies, friends and family of premies, press, aspirants etc...

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 17:21:03 (EDT)
From: Nottingham Mole
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Re: Has anyone saved this cac stuff?
Message:
I have saved most of it - all of the exe's I think.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:52:17 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Yes
Message:
I printed out most of the stuff I could.

A new section about all this on the EPO website is under preparation, and as with all the other stuff there, Elan Vital and Maharaji will be allowed to make their positions on all this known. One wonders if the cult sites will ever allow US to do that?

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 16:25:00 (EDT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Good point, Joe, plus...
Message:
Hey Joe-

When you said that m and ev would, of course, be allowed to state their position on this web-war stuff, it made me think that it should be stated up front and boldly, both on the original web site removal page, plus this new web-war page, that m and ev are welcome to debate or at least state their position on any and all of this stuff.
If they feel that the dates or happenings are different than what is portrayed on epo, they are welcome to discuss and dialog about it.
Of course, epo could ask permission to state their positions on any and all of m's website, especially the 'history' part of it, on m's sites.

Maybe this could 'extend the olive branch'...maybe open up some dialog about these issues (a stretch of the imagination at this point)...at the very least it would show to any one browsing the sites, which side welcomes dialog and will post the opposing position, and which site stifles free speech and discussion of the issues...that in itself, would speak volumes....why is it that m so desparately wants that stuff off the internet?....and, if he really disagrees with it, why doesn't he come out into the light of day and talk about it?

I would state this boldly, upfront.....these are the facts, and if m disagrees, he is most welcome to come and discuss things...his place or ours....and why is it that he won't let this happen on any of his sites?

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 03:50:10 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: It's all in your Internet cache
Message:
if you've read it and didn't clear your cache.

There are excellent tools to manage your cache, like CacheX for instance.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:28:39 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Yep
Message:
but will talk to you by email about it.
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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 23:23:23 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Giving Bjorn a brake
Message:
He posted on LG:

Posted: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 17:36:26 (EDT)
Original: NA
Posted by: Bjørn E Recipient: All
Email Address: Not Provided
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 98)
Message Count: 31 visits (31 today, 31 this week, 31 this month, 31 this year)

Subject: Life is what it is
Message:

Dear Katie

As I wrote a couple of times I considered you in general to be a person with a kind nature. It is strange for me to see that you did not understand that the whole purpose of the ex-site grew into expressing hatred towards M and PWKs.
Thus many people as well as me, who were brave enough to encounter what was going on, suffered. I also had tended to believe that the majority of human beings are fundamentally good. By posting at the exes forum I experienced that what I wrote was twisted around, and I was the target of harassments, lies, libel statements etc. And as Jim once wrote, no ex believed in a word of what I wrote, in spite of what I wrote was the truth.
This happened in a period of my life where everything seemed to crash. I was pretty successful and wealthy, and suddenly it was like everything fell apart. Not only did it seem like I had lost almost a million dollar of my money, as well a company that I owned, seemed to have zero in value, although a stock analysts valuated it to almost 10 millions. I also remember one month, about 20 incidents happened, like burglary, 2 bathrooms leaked, a pretty new refrigerator and awashing machine, as well as 2 TVs broke down, etc, etc. At that time, I started to lose faith not only in human beings, but also in God, M & K. In fact, at some time did not want to live. Somehow though I felt like Job, in Jobs book in the Bible, who experienced similar or much worse things, and I think strangely that perspective saved my life. I have told about the therapy I went through and are going through, as a victim of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, which partly happened because I was severely a victim of blind violence as a guy kicked me in my body and head for about 5 minutes.
So, shit happens, but actually Life is Great. I can really sense this from my experience, actually M talked about this recently that even though we go through sufferings, we still could feel joy in our life. And actually within the depression I experienced, I also experience a lot of times a joy within. I know that sounds like a contradiction, but there is a contraction in us. On one hand we have the power that fills us will life, which by its own nature is joy, on the other hand there is this “Mr. mind” that actually drives us crazy.
It is in a way an irony what happened with the CAC. Suddenly, some exes, experienced exactly the same things they did to others. Tasting their own medicine, I sincerely hope this will be a lesson in life that can change their attitudes. But you never know, and it seems like some people continue their 'war of words'.
You say, “ It's very scary to have an anonymous, faceless, force out there that obviously wishes you harm.” It is, but you see, even if some people gave their name on the ex-forum, the feeling was exactly like that.

Life goes on and I hope we all have learned a lesson.

Take care, Life is great, and even my miseries seems to have an end, to me it seems even to be a new opening for my business. So even if that is not the big thing, miracles in Life are actually beyond amazing.

Best wishes Bjorn (who just passed by and saw what has happened.)

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:23:36 (EDT)
From: Stirling Moss
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: I'd rather give him an accelerator
Message:
vrooooom vroom!
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:15:43 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Stirling Moss
Subject: This is a Bjorn-free forum
Message:
I made a deal with Bjorn that I would not post on LG if he does not post here. For others to repost his crap to here from LG defeats this arrangement.

I guess I'll have to get the mop out...

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:30:20 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I'm aware of that
Message:
but now we 'have caused him to get sick'. Not the cult involvement: We did it. FUNNY.

Soory gerry, I won't do it again. Can I get my spanking now? :)

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:24:48 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: HILLARIOUS-Cybers CAC MERGED!
Message:
uuuuuuuuu

CAC MERGED

Now we are in trouble! sniff...

We have received dozens of congratulatory messages from law enforcement officials, health professionals and cyberstalking victims.

yeah, right. LOL

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:50:55 (EDT)
From: VC
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: HILLARIOUS-Cybers CAC MERGED!
Message:
Laugh alright....

They will have the last one...

VC

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 09:44:58 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: VC
Subject: YOU, COWARD nt
Message:
ASS
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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:56:44 (EDT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: VC
Subject: I forgot.VICTORIA?
Message:
Is that you? If you are Victoria I need to know.
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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:55:22 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: VC
Subject: Really?
Message:
Tell me how?

CAC is full of words, learned well by the master of words, LORD maharaji. The biggest impostor I ever knew.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:36:50 (EDT)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Exactly. Where is the link ...
Message:
... to the new merged site? There isn't one, because there isn't one.
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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 17:24:31 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Chuck S.
Subject: Re: Exactly. Where is the link ...
Message:
Spooof

Hi Chuck,

They are gone, eh? Did you read what they had yesterday there? They merged... Where? have anybody do a search on them? I have been so busy that I come here for a few minutes at a time. I haven't time to read much. It was a joke...

Premies... LOL

SIR DAVE, COMEBACK!!!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 14:08:33 (EDT)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Where is the link ... nowhere.
Message:
I did a search for any such site, listing known cyberstalkers. I couldn't find a single one. That sort of thing seems to be reserved for known sex offenders only.
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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 21:41:35 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: All
Subject: ADMIN:FORUM CODE SPECS
Message:
i'd lake to make a request for a modification in the colors used, in the code that tells the forum board what shades to use, to differentiate visited links from yet unvisited ones, and still a third color to indicate which post one is reading in the present thread?

I find it damn near impossible to distinguish where i am in the list, thanks to the use of blue for everything. i leave my screen with a headache every night, from hours of peering hard at the tiny print, trying to ascertain whether i have already read a line or not.

may i suggest something vivd and easily seen, such as green for visited, and red for the present post one is reading?

can it be done?

does anyone else feel likewise about this point?

janet

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 13:52:17 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: ADMIN:FORUM colors answer (hotboards)
Message:
From:'Hotboards'  
To:
Subject:Fw: Feedback from regarding Hot Boards
Date:Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:22:49 -0700
> There is no charge and it is very easy to do it yourself. Just go into the forum editor, click on 'Colors and Backgrounds' and specify what you want the various colors to be.
>
> Chris
>
---
-- Original Message
---
--
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 11:19 PM Subject: Feedback from regarding Hot Boards
>
>
> >
> > Reply-To: jai_choix@yahoo.com
> > Forum ID = ex=premie
> > Request Type= Suggested Improvement
> > Computer type= Other
> > browser type= Internet Explorer
> > Browser Version= mozilla
> > The user had the following requests/problems:
> >
> > how hard would it be to change the color programmed into the visited links
> and the present post being displayed in the thread, on the ex=premie forum? is there more money charged if a change is made?
> > at present, on forum 7, i cant distinguish between the blue used for unread
> posts and the blue that shows for visited and read posts. i get lost on the board trying to stay up to date with what i have already read and new posts that go up shortly after i have left the thread.
> >
> > the admin is grouchy and is pretending he cant do it.
> >
> > i suggested making the visited links green and the post being displayed at
> the moment in red, so a reader can clearly tell where they are in the thread at any point.
> >
> > what's involved? how hard is it? no > > one on our forum is objecting to > > the
> change, the admin is just cranky and claims to be too busy to set time aside to do it.
> >
> > can you make the change for us???
> >
> > janet and sylvia and the others who > > post and read.
> >
> > i'm not having any problems with my browser, that part is ok.

so how about it, admin?? i believe you're the only one who can go into this area and make the changes?

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 11:50:34 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: ADMIN:FORUM CODE SPECS
Message:
Hi Janet,
You have WebTV right? Don't they charge over $20 per month? If you had a regular computer you could get a service for less than $15. In time, the reduction in monthly costs would pay for the computer.

If you had a computer, the colors on this site wouldn't be a problem. And there's other benefits to having a computer as well.

I realize it takes cash to get a computer and you may not want one for other reasons, but I thought I'd mention it because it's a more elegant solution than red colored links, which aren't too pleasing on a computer (which everyone else has).

Rick

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:00:02 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: to rick and carlos
Message:
i cant operate a pc. i have tried. i had one given to me for free, and after months of frustration, both physial and mental, i sold it at a yard sale and gave up on the idea. i can't download. not on a webtv.
this change of colors has to be doable--sir dave did it on forum 6 for us, and over there, i could easily tell where i was in the matrix (okay guys
---
no blue pill, red pill jokes, please...)

is this 'forum editor' area this guy talks about, is it accessible to me?

if red is objectionable to you pc users, would another color be ok, for keeping track of the present post one is reading in the thread? suggestions?
my screen is all white, with black print and blue for all posts, read, unread, or now being read...

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 14:23:15 (EDT)
From: &nbsp;
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Forum 6 were these colours
Message:
body text=black BGCLOOR=wheat link=blue vlink=brown alink=purple

Two shades were lightened.

Wheat was lightened to #F7DFBB
Blue was lightened to #0000EC

Lightening isn't necessary with a white background, though.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 04:09:24 (EDT)
From: Carlos
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Janet, go to opera.com and download their
Message:
i'd lake to make a request for a modification in the colors used, in the code that tells the forum board what shades to use, to differentiate visited links from yet unvisited ones, and still a third color to indicate which post one is reading in the present thread?

I find it damn near impossible to distinguish where i am in the list, thanks to the use of blue for everything. i leave my screen with a headache every night, from hours of peering hard at the tiny print, trying to ascertain whether i have already read a line or not.

may i suggest something vivd and easily seen, such as green for visited, and red for the present post one is reading?

can it be done?

does anyone else feel likewise about this point?

janet


---

free browser. It has a zoom feature which will solve your 'tiny print' problem, + lots of other nice features.

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:23:29 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: ADMIN:FORUM CODE SPECS
Message:
i sent hboards a mote asking how hard it might be to make the modifications, whether money was needed and so on.

IF NO ONE HERE OBJECTS TO MAKING THE IMPROVEMENT, CAN WE ASK FOR IT????
IT MIGHT NOT MATTER TO SOME OF YOU, BUT TO OTHERS IT WOULD MAKE A BIG IMPROVEMENT.

SO I CALL FOR A VOICE VOTE:

WHO DOES NOT OBJECT TO MAKING THE OMPROVEMENT
---
THAT IS, ADDING GREEN FOR THE VISITED LINKS AND RED FOR THE POST ONE IS READING ON THE SCREEN AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT?

I REALLY APPRECIATE UNDERSTANDING HERE. to me the modification isnt cosmetic.

janet

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 22:09:55 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: I see your point
Message:
Maybe it can help also if the name of the poster is one size bigger than the subject. Maybe it can be done.

Hi Janet!

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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 23:10:11 (EDT)
From: forum janitor
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: You ladies quit whinging, please
Message:
I've got about three more floors to vacuum and and six disgusting 'rest' rooms to clean before I can knock off for the night.

Get glasses for gawd's sake.

Anything else?

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:13:01 (EDT)
From: glasses dont help
Email: None
To: forum janitor
Subject: me see colors better!!!please?
Message:
how hard would it be? change the words in the code to 'green' and 'red' in the appropriate places in the html.

do ya have to pay extra for colors???????seriously man. this is ruining my reading for hours on end.
what would i have to give you for you to decide to do it.?

not just for me

janet

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Date: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 06:08:49 (EDT)
From: Pretend you are grateful
Email: None
To: glasses dont help
Subject: but give money [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Aug 28, 2001 at 23:24:42 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: forum janitor
Subject: LOL nt
Message:
hahhahahaha
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