Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Oct 02, 2001 To: Oct 09, 2001 Page: 3 of: 5


Jerry -:- How do I sign up? -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 17:15:17 (EDT)
__ Mr. Dooley -:- 5 times a week -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 18:18:42 (EDT)
__ __ janet -:- i can get behind that! -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:56:41 (EDT)

Rick -:- I'll let gErRy have at this one... -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 13:09:23 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Not a mistake -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 17:05:04 (EDT)
__ __ Tonette -:- Wrong.. US spy satellites... -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 03:17:21 (EDT)
__ __ Vera -:- What was that about no WW3? -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 23:42:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- Cynthia would say this. -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 10:11:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- I would say this -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 19:18:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- What a label, what an easy out -:- Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 01:48:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave }( -:- You don't appreciate my humout -:- Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 03:00:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- The fear is not out of proportion -:- Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 04:05:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rick -:- excellent points, PatC (nt) -:- Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 10:13:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- I think some good will come out of it -:- Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 04:22:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave }( -:- Best to think clearly -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 06:10:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Rick -:- Re: Best to think clearly -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 09:26:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- I'd say attacks were guaranteed -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 15:25:41 (EDT)
__ __ Rick -:- It doesn't look good (nt) -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 23:36:26 (EDT)
__ gErRy -:- Woh, TWA 800 all over again. -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 13:31:19 (EDT)
__ __ Rick -:- Re: Woh, TWA 800 all over again. -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 13:38:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ Another Plane -:- Plane flies close to nuclear plant in Vt -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 14:59:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Rick -:- damn! (nt) -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 19:07:49 (EDT)

Jerry -:- Blame the poor -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 09:35:53 (EDT)
__ Rick -:- Re: Blame the poor -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 11:17:28 (EDT)
__ __ gerry -:- Rick... -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 10:50:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Not all economic -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 17:07:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ salam -:- are u sure? -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 21:00:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- I don't understand -:- Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 08:30:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- Re: I don't understand -:- Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 11:41:02 (EDT)
__ __ salam -:- !!Islamic fundementalist?!! -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 10:22:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ Rick -:- Re: !!Islamic fundementalist?!! -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 11:21:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ salam -:- u got to be kidding me. -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 20:53:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Rick -:- Re: u got to be kidding me. -:- Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 00:41:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- that's classified -:- Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 03:53:11 (EDT)
__ gerry -:- My sentiment exactly -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 11:16:42 (EDT)

salam -:- I know who was behind caca -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 07:00:07 (EDT)
__ Tonette -:- Not true -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 10:27:00 (EDT)
__ salsa -:- the post -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 08:10:18 (EDT)
__ __ Timmi -:- Re: the post -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 12:29:44 (EDT)
__ [Blank] -:- The 14 lies of JHB -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 07:41:59 (EDT)
__ __ how did you circumvent the -:- 'no name' error feature? -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 08:00:56 (EDT)
__ __ __   -:- You're not a member of -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 11:45:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __   -:- You need to be 'EX' rated... -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 12:15:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ ())()) ha-ha -:- -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 21:24:12 (EDT)

berni -:- What this Forum is really about. -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 06:13:43 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Yeah, but let's get real about this -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 11:50:14 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- Jim! Good post but..... -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 11:03:18 (EDT)
__ __ Moley -:- I agree Jim -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 20:14:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ bill -:- I'll go along with that [nt] -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:04:09 (EDT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- Re: Yeah, but let's get real about this -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 18:52:15 (EDT)
__ __ berni -:- Getting real and not religious -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 17:15:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Thanks, Berni -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 19:35:40 (EDT)
__ __ Dermot -:- Yeah but Jim -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 15:42:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- I could have said that. -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 21:59:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Re: I could have said that. -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 04:32:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ bill -:- I hope YOUR country aint attacted! [nt] -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 19:39:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- glad your back already [nt] -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 23:47:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Just lightly. -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 08:34:27 (EDT)

toby -:- Maharaji is happy -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 05:33:07 (EDT)
__ PatD -:- Divine Grace -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 22:19:14 (EDT)
__ __ Tonette -:- Ah hahaha! An opportunity.. -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 02:59:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- An opportunity..why not -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 03:27:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Hey Pat or others. A question -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 04:09:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Cliched crocodile tears -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 04:20:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- How pathetically shallow -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 04:40:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- When u r happy, issues don't matter -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 13:08:31 (EDT)

Barry -:- Fucken VIRUS! ot -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 22:55:26 (EDT)
__ janet -:- Re: was it SirCam?? -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 08:24:17 (EDT)
__ __ Susannah -:- Re: was it SirCam?? -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 18:34:00 (EDT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- Re: was it SirCam?? -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 17:39:33 (EDT)
__ silvia -:- hey -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 06:10:24 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- TRUE!nt -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 10:59:50 (EDT)
__ Scott T. -:- PE_MAGISTR.DAM (ot) -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 01:42:15 (EDT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- Re: PE_MAGISTR.DAM (ot) -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 02:27:17 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- thank u scott -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 01:59:30 (EDT)
__ Francesca -:- Re: Fucken VIRUS! ot -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 00:41:48 (EDT)
__ __ bill -:- Your -thus spake god- post was a hoot -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:16:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca :P -:- Glad you liked it -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:31:00 (EDT)
__ __ Jerry -:- You got it -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 15:43:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- Norton and MacAfee -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 23:22:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca :P -:- My other virus protection is ... -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:38:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Re: My other virus protection is ... -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 08:53:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- NortonAv IS that cheap (OT) -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 12:47:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Re: NortonAv IS that cheap (OT) -:- Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 02:55:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Hmm, I've always been offered -:- Sun, Oct 07, 2001 at 00:07:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Here's the link -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 08:58:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Chuck S. -:- Re: My other virus protection is ... -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 04:42:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Viruses - How about this solution? -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 17:32:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Problemo -:- Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 00:23:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- I know, that's why I said Hotmail -:- Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 05:57:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Sounds very practical, to me. -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 23:24:23 (EDT)
__ __ Barry -:- ummm..norton what? -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 01:20:23 (EDT)

prefer to withhold name -:- a book dedication -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 21:17:13 (EDT)
__ Voyeur -:- Dr. Andy Lockie -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 10:07:21 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- Re: Dr. Andy Lockie -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 18:50:50 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Andy Lockie-did you see his pic? -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 03:56:50 (EDT)
__ salam -:- Re: a book dedication -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 21:43:54 (EDT)
__ __ michael donner -:- Re: a book dedication -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 22:44:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ bill -:- Mike how is your bro? -still here? [nt] -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:17:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ prefer to withhold name -:- Re: a book dedication -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 00:30:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ salam -:- that better. Now try this -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 07:13:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Definitely a premie (at least was) -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 04:22:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: Definitely a premie (at least was) -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 04:29:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Barbara -:- He lives in Surrey UK -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 02:34:57 (EDT)

gerry -:- David Roupell aka SC grooves at LG -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 18:35:18 (EDT)
__ jethro -:- A challenge? -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 22:14:23 (EDT)
__ __ gerry -:- What piqued my curiosity -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 13:43:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- all the way to AZ from Oz -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 11:21:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ Francesca :) -:- Thanks Gerry -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 17:32:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Wallabee -:- SC's a wannabe -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 19:39:31 (EDT)

JHB -:- New Journeys Entries -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 17:17:28 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- They should take shelter on Recent Exe's -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 11:40:39 (EDT)
__ __ JHB -:- Re: They should take shelter on Recent Exe's -:- Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 06:16:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- No? You don't say! -:- Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 16:03:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Why not? -:- Sun, Oct 07, 2001 at 05:13:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- John, I see the bias the OTHER way -:- Sun, Oct 07, 2001 at 19:48:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Then we agree:) -:- Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 02:20:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: Then we agree:) ooh boy! -:- Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 02:40:49 (EDT)
__ Tonette -:- New Journies: PATHETIC! nt -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 04:06:00 (EDT)
__ bill -:- Yipes! get off that lap! [nt] -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:20:43 (EDT)
__ Vera -:- Sai Baba possibly worse than PPSR -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 06:47:07 (EDT)
__ __ Jethro -:- They are both scumbags. -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 21:44:53 (EDT)
__ __ JHB -:- Write to Gill -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 19:15:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ bill -:- yeah help gill out with info [nt] -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:21:40 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- Also, White Pages entries -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 18:21:51 (EDT)
__ __ carol attley -:- white pages -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 00:46:33 (EDT)
__ Gregg -:- Out of the frying pan, into the fire (nt) -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 17:36:26 (EDT)

cq -:- 'Infinite Justice' or 'Operation Re-think'? -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 15:54:51 (EDT)

Timmi -:- Well, I have a question -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 15:31:03 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Well, I have an answer -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 17:05:12 (EDT)

Gerry -:- Back to Prem, Please, Pals? -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 15:03:02 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- LOL (nt) -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 06:02:36 (EDT)
__ Nige -:- Or how about a compromise..? -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 20:29:27 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Or how about some enthusiasm ..? -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 03:22:39 (EDT)
__ __ Timmi -:- Re: Or how about a compromise..? -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 20:54:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- For fun, let's have a baby-throwing festival -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 03:30:58 (EDT)
__ suchabanana -:- cure fer some ham? -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 18:56:03 (EDT)
__ __ Tonette -:- OMG!!!! Yeah, I woke -:- Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 04:52:59 (EDT)
__ __ ggg -:- You did it again such!. . . -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 19:24:40 (EDT)
__ Scott T. -:- Back to Prem -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 17:31:59 (EDT)
__ Francesca :o -:- Lock de door and ... -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 16:32:01 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- I swear on the bible that -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 16:53:22 (EDT)
__ Barbara -:- Lock Icon? -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 15:37:50 (EDT)
__ XX -:- Re: Back to Prem, Please, Pals? -:- Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 15:05:45 (EDT)
__ __ janet -:- stop and look hard -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 10:34:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ salam -:- yeah, u tell em girl -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 21:35:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Re: stop and look hard -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 12:06:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- hi gerry -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 12:39:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- 'The usual behaviors' -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 13:07:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Hey Gerry -:- Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 12:11:58 (EDT)


Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 17:15:17 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: How do I sign up?
Message:
Over at LG, Bjorn has announced that satelite feeds are now 5 times a week. Enlightenment right in the privacy of your own home. Custom made for a recluse like me. Maybe I'll be as awestruck as Bjorn is. Sounds like you found your niche, Bjorn. Me, I'm just stuck watching reruns of The Nanny and The Simpsons, so where do I sign up?

Yesterday I watched a satelite event where M spoke in Rome this summer. I strongly recommend everyone to watch that video.
While I watched it, my jaws kind of fell down and I wondered, 'how can anyone reveal such a profound wisdom into just one hour speach'

Hmm.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 18:18:42 (EDT)
From: Mr. Dooley
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: 5 times a week
Message:
would be a proper thing to make Osama watch, if and when captured and caged

give him a dose of the real son of allah

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:56:41 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Mr. Dooley
Subject: i can get behind that!
Message:
now THAT sounds like a just punishment for ole B_L. lock him in solitary confinement all by his lonesome and give him nothing but amaharaji materials ad infinitum.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 13:09:23 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: All
Subject: I'll let gErRy have at this one...
Message:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20011004/aponline130004_000.htm
[ airline crash ]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 17:05:04 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Not a mistake
Message:
According to Putin (and he should know) the missiles used in the Ukrain excercise (which had Russian observers watching it) could not have possibly entered the airspace where the jet was flying and they were not armed with warheads either.
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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 03:17:21 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Wrong.. US spy satellites...
Message:
The US department of defense issued a statement that the missle was lauched from the military base in the Ukraine. Our satellites recorded the site from which this missle was launched, it's tragectory and it's speed. The real question is why didn't the Ukraine didn't self destruct the missle once they realized what a mistake they had made. The missle was 120 miles from the airplane when launched so they had several minutes.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 23:42:03 (EDT)
From: Vera
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: What was that about no WW3?
Message:
In other words the most likely explanation is terorism at the moment.

What was that about the WTC being a lucky one-off?

Also, from the British papers today:

On Sunday, Andy Card, the White House chief of
staff, said: 'I'm not trying to be alarmist but we
know these terrorist organisations have probably
found the means to use biological and chemical
warfare.'

Vera

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 10:11:24 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Vera
Subject: Cynthia would say this.
Message:
Your fears are well founded. The men here are quick to respond with labeling you as not 'clear thinking.'
I think your fears are well founded. About the WW3 issue. Well, last time I checked, the map showed over 60 countries are allied with the war on terrosism. If that isn't a world war, I frankly don't know what is. Not a war where nukes are lobbed. Not a war where thousands of lives are lost in combat. (although that has already happened in the USA) Not a war where the battle fronts are clear and defined.
And yes, they do have biological and/or chemical weapons. You had better believe it! I work at a hospital in Washington, DC. The alert is real. Now, do you think those 'bottom line' profit motivated hospital administrators would respond unless they were alerted to something that we as a general populist weren't? This is costing them MONEY from an already deficit running institution. Why is congress posing refief to hospitals to fund such response? It's expensive for one thing and we are poorly equipped both in our bed capacity, drug stockpiles, and decontamination units and our labaratories. And someone is tipping the hat.
I don't know if you live in America but the atmosphere here is preparing for the next terrosit event. And..........unity.
This all makes Maharaji and his pathetic, stupid, shallow dying cult and those who follow it seem more than ridiculous, it's downright stupid.
Maharaji and his brain dead cult followers are silly, ridiculous and those that are members and still haven't woke up are lost causes. The information here on the web as well as past followers is clear, available and damming. They are truly the weary and weak. Emphasis on WEAK. And they are happy in their ingnorance. They choose it. So be it. There will always be a world which contains human ostriches. Always has been, always will be. There will always be a parasite like Maharaji, to prey on these people too!
It's the issue of the day to deal with, understand and rid the likes of a cult leader like bin Laden. Fuck Maharaji and his stupid, low character, brain washed followers.
Kudos to you Vera, Tonette
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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 19:18:20 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: I would say this
Message:
Don't ever let me know what riles you because I won't stop winding you up with it. To wit, feminists; those women who have forgotten their feminine side and have left their knitting to try to become equal to men and think clearly.

Regarding terrorism; Israel is probably the most terrorised, affluent country in the world and yet the people there do not all live in fear every day. I've known some Israelis and was pleasantly amazed by their attitude and resilience.

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Date: Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 01:48:18 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: What a label, what an easy out
Message:
Guess what? Wrong.
I am very far from a feminist. Shows the power of this form of communication and peoples understanding of it. Your answer and your attitude cheapens the real issue of what was trying to be said both here in this forum by Cynthia, and the issue of what well has happened in this world.
I'm so glad you are on such an 'in' with your Isralie friends. I'm sure that gives you the whole picture. Makes you an expert eh?
I'm so glad you understand the plight of Londoners, your home town, and the ever present threat of 'car bombs.'
And it assures me that you are so expert in the analysis of what exactly Islamic fundamentalists are capable of. Just a bunch of camel jockeys. Right? Kinda stupid. Have played their ace in the hole so to speak. What a great authority from which you speak.
But actually my response was to Vera, not you Dave.

So, how many Americans are you acquainted with? And do you admire their resilency of spirit as well?
And what an insult and how telling in your statement of women. I suppose that means your children are only male. I can't see a father of a daughter making a statement so callous. But I think you do have a daughter judging by the picture you posted on EPO. A picture which later came back to utterly terrorize you! Maybe you spend too much time here with this ridiculous forum and need to spend more time with your daughter in order to really understand what being a woman is all about. Just a friendly word of advice.
By the way, does your wife knit or something?

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Date: Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 03:00:58 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave }(
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: You don't appreciate my humout
Message:
but you're not the first. I have three daughters and am glad of it and spend most of my leasure time with them. My statements about women were irony. Of course I wasn't serious.

I live in London and have been near to where some of the IRA bombs have exploded, especially the massive one at Canary Wharf. What can I say? I have tried to express that a lot of the fear that I see some American people have is because of the media overdoing it. Even living in a big city, there's very little chance of being killed or injured by a terrorist attack.

I used to work in central London at the height of the IRA bombing campaign and the worst that happened to most people was being held up in traffic jams for hours when a bomb had gone off and they closed all the roads. Of course, some people died but it's a lottery, isn't it, like most of life.

I see the fear as being out of proportion to the actual threat. That's the media's fault, in my view. Al Qaeda doesn't have the capability to wipe out cities with chemical or biological weapons. I'm sure they will attack America again (and probably London too) but each cell is very small and I don't personally think they'll be able to pull off a stunt like they've just done, again. Not now America knows they're under threat.

But fine, you disagree but I can't help but say what I see. And actually, I spend very little time here. Maybe I should read more of the posts but I don't have the time.

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Date: Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 04:05:36 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Sir Dave }(
Subject: The fear is not out of proportion
Message:
The fear that Americans are feeling is not that they might individually be killed but that any American could be killed anywhere at any time. There is a fatwah against Americans and Israelis. Our passports are our death certificates.

Americans don't fear that 22 cars bombs will explode over the next ten years but that 22 WTCs (or worse) with 6,000 dead in half an hour will occur over the next ten years.

Sure there is some fear for oneself but mostly it is a fear for what will happen to the country as a whole. Will the fragile veneer of civilization crumble? Will our freedoms be sacrificed? Will the American Dream turn into a nightmare?

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Date: Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 10:13:22 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: excellent points, PatC (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 04:22:03 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: I think some good will come out of it
Message:
Pat C wrote:

''Will the fragile veneer of civilization crumble? Will our freedoms be sacrificed? Will the American Dream turn into a nightmare?''

Looking at Israel as an example, I don't think the above will happen but you'll be living under tight security from now on. Haven't Americans always been a target outside of America, though?

I actually think some good can come out of this. Old enemies become friends and the world starts to co-operate with each other and the differences gradually melt away.

I stongly believe that good will come from this, like a pheonix rising from the ashes.

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 06:10:46 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave }(
Email: None
To: Vera
Subject: Best to think clearly
Message:
The latest news says, ''Russian prosecutors say they are investigating terrorism as the cause of a mid-air explosion which brought down a passenger jet.''

Terrorism can still be launched from the Ukrain. The missiles being used in the exercise were dummy missiles and didn't have a range of 120 miles. Obviously, someone else could have launched a ''proper'' ground to air missile in the hope that once it blew up the plane, the other missiles launched would be blamed.

Of course this isn't WW3. Why do people get carried away like this? A war between terrorists and other countries has been going on now for several decades. I think America has just woken up to that.

India has been the recipient of terrible terrorist atrocities since the 1940s and on the day of the WTC attack, they had two priests in one of their Hindu temples beheaded (by Muslim terrorists) in front of their congregation in the temple. And of course, a lot of people died the other day in another terrorist attack in India.

My point; terrorism has been going on for some time now all over the world. Remember Chechnia? It is only now that America has been attacked itself that finally, the sleeping giant has been stirred. But it's not a world war and it's not a new thing.

I watched some of the delegates at the United Nations conference on terrorism yesterday. I saw ambassadors from China and India both agree that we must all join together to defeat the scourge of terrorism. That's not the recipe for a world war, more like a united world.

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 09:26:03 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Sir Dave }(
Subject: Re: Best to think clearly
Message:
I
saw ambassadors from China and India both agree that we must all join together to defeat the
scourge of terrorism. That's not the recipe for a world war, more like a united world.

Some people are uneasy about countries like Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Iran, Pakistan, Lybia and Saudi Arabia. It's why the U.S. and allies are being so careful in proceeding.

And it isn't necessarily a 'world war' people are uneasy about... it's a 'big war'. I think the real question is how many terrorist cells exist like the ones who attacked on Sept. 11, what are their capabilities, what are their plans, and what can we do about it without creating more enemies.
[ more attacks possible ]

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 15:25:41 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: I'd say attacks were guaranteed
Message:
That article was very interesting. I think it unlikely that Al Qaeda will do the sort of thing that terrorists do in Israel - strap exposives to themselves and blow themselves and everybody else up in a crowded shop or marketplace. Al Qaeda only seems to go for big, prominent targets that will gain maximum publicity. At least they are predictable in that respect.

Iran is co-operating with the coalition, as is Pakistan. The Iraq government won't want another fight with America because it will mean the end of Saddam Hussain.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 23:36:26 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: It doesn't look good (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 13:31:19 (EDT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Woh, TWA 800 all over again.
Message:
what a gnarled up, tangled ball of yarn this one is already. I wonder who was on board. The flight originated from Tel Aviv.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 13:38:10 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Re: Woh, TWA 800 all over again.
Message:
15 Russian, 51 Israelis and 12 crew die...

according to Matt Drudge

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 14:59:10 (EDT)
From: Another Plane
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Plane flies close to nuclear plant in Vt
Message:
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/275/metro/Plane_flew_close_to_nuclear_plant_in_Vt_+.shtml
[ Plane Flew Close to Nuclear Plant in VT ]
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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 19:07:49 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Another Plane
Subject: damn! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 09:35:53 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Blame the poor
Message:
Last night, West Wing had a special episode on terrorism, made in the aftermath of the events of September 11th. It was a well done dramatic examination of terrorism, but it failed, IMHO, to expose the root cause of it. In fact, I found myself appalled at it's conclusions, that it's the poor, the oppressed, who rise up as terrorists against their oppressors.

Poor people don't rise up against anybody. They just suffer silently until lead into battle by those who have something to be gained by their sacrifice. How poor is bin Laden, the Taliban, Saddam Hussein or Arafat?

Only rich people point to the poor and say, 'See, if that wasn't happenning, there'd be no terrorism.' Bullshit. If there were no rich who were jealous of there fellow rich and wanted what they have, then there'd be no terrorism. So stop blaming the poor, rich people. They just suffer the consequences of you rich motherfuckers fighting to be King Of The Hill.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 11:17:28 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Re: Blame the poor
Message:
Your post brings up some good questions, Jerry. What part does does economics and living conditions play in politics and war?

The hatred felt by many extremist Muslims is only marginally influenced by economics, although if there ever was a mass uprising it would be mostly poor people. In bin Laden's case, although he's rich, his main motivation is more religious, cultural and territorial, just like those who idolize him.

The U.S. is motivated by economics more than the terrorists in this situation. And oddly enough, I think money is the key to solve this situation. Or more accurately, information, which costs money. This is a war of information.

The war of information has already been won in the U.S. As long as the economy stays relatively stable, the population will be content enough to accept that things work well here. The education system, media, and major religious organizations are influential enough to guide the peoples' heads that rest on bodies with full bellies.

But powerful as the West is, they haven't penetrated the Muslim part of the world effectively; or succeeded in getting the mainstream institutions of that part of the world to gain significant control.

But you're definitely right that if people are hungry enough, all they think about is food. And the one's we have to worry about in the Muslim world aren't that hungry.

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 10:50:09 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Rick...
Message:
I have to say I 'fundamentally' disagree with your post and others who contend that the root cause of this conflict is religious. I maintain as does Jerry, I think, that the root causes are economic and the poor are as usual, pawns.

I think the religious angle is being used by both sides as a smokescreen. What we have here is basically a power struggle between former business partners for control of resources.

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 17:07:06 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Not all economic
Message:
Hi Gerry,

Couldn't stay away from the politics, eh? Heh, heh. I don't think it's all economics with Bin Laden. He did give up the life of a prince to live in a cave in a war zone. It's about power. Maybe that's what I'm trying to say. The powerful (who are also the rich) do use the poor as pawns, as you say. But I think in this case, Bin Laden's agenda is religious. It's about ridding Muslim nations of the fakkir (nonbelievers; in other words, us). He feels he's in a position to achieve that, so he's giving it his shot. And like we both agreee, the poor, easily roused by appealing to their passions, are his pawns.

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 21:00:40 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: are u sure?
Message:
during the time when bin Laden was in Sudan, the Sudan goverment offerd the Sauds to give bin Laden to them. The Sauds refused.

Now am not saying that bin Laden is a covert Saudi agent[though he was] that has gonne wild, but you just can't wonder.

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Date: Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 08:30:29 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: I don't understand
Message:
It's not clear what you're saying, salam. Covert agent in what way?
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Date: Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 11:41:02 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Re: I don't understand
Message:
shit.

I know what I mean, I just don't know how to say it properly.

The boofhead was working for the Sauds during the Afghan war against the russians not just to fight, but to undermine Iran the shia muslim country. Of course everyone would have supported that, but then the bastered got his knickers in a knot when your infidel troops landed in the holy land of the Wahabi. At least that is how the story goes. My out of the way question is, did the Sauds support him even then, so that they will get a favorite treatement from Washington. the Sauds are financially broke, they don't want infidel troops on their soil but there shit their pants night and day afraid from Saddam. They need to protect themselves by making alliance with other shit pants countries. So to get support they made bin Laden into a big time terrorist while in the background they support him, yes?

[Well it's only my imagination anyway]

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 10:22:06 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: !!Islamic fundementalist?!!
Message:
There is no such a thing. It's like call the kkk Christain fundementalists. Just by claiming that you're doing something in the name of something else doesn't mean it's correct.

Bin Laden, the kkk, the Serbs christans Cahtolic that killed and deported thousands of Muslims from Kosovo are nothing but deranged murderous maniacs. They need to be brought in front of a court and sentenced. Please don't mix bin Laden Wahbisim with Islam. In 1900 there was a fatwah by Muslim 'ULMA' denouncing the Deobani movement [Wahabi Pakistani style]. Am not a Muslim [well at least I think am not] but I also don't like misleading slogans. I'd rather prefer that you'd mention bin Laden, Al-Qaida or whatever by name.

Am sure that many Americans will feel the same if someone that the Christain American invaded Vietnam. Remember, a lot of Muslims died in the WTC, and many of them where American.

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 11:21:52 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Re: !!Islamic fundementalist?!!
Message:
You can't separate many of those that are terrorists or hate America from Islam. Some are clergy at mosques, others pray at mosques; they believe in Allah, study the Koran, relate those teachings to their beliefs in a holy war against the infidals they believe to be America.

If you're saying they are perverting the religion of Islam, that's another story.

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 20:53:38 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: u got to be kidding me.
Message:
you know how hard the qou'ran is. Reading Arabic doesn't mean you can read the quo'ran, well that is a start.
Second, you are still missing the point. There is nothing in Islam that says America is the land of satan or for that matter the UK or anyother country. It's all one's interpretation. what is going on in the name of Islam is politically motivated. did you know that anti-American demonstrators in Pakistan where promised a chicken meal afterwards. anyone that hit a goverment solder was given 200 ruppee, well that is ideolegy. And do you think that the Talaban extended their rule on Afganistan because suddenly everyone saw the light in the new Islam. Well I suggest that you look again. The Taliban operation cost $50million US a month, that money came from somewhere to buy loyalties. The tribal cheif don't give a fuck who they support as long as they get paid for it and as long as their territory is respected. So if the agreement says, we pay you to send people to demonstrate, the cheif will oblige.

so what countries are you getting muslims saying death to the americans. I haven't seen anyone in the middle east saying it. There are a lot of anti-American sentenants in the world. In Canada it's takes the form of a civilised women conference, in poor countries where people live in an endless poverty anyone can get us and say it's the fault of so and so.

I was watching the news the other day, and this one Afghan refugees talking about how bad it was and that 'he will defend his country' against america. I though well that is strange, this fellow is a refugee in a forign country, eating American rice and doing this. well you don't have to be an Eineshtien [or however u write the cunts name] to figure out that this fellow has had it nice and easy in Afganistan. He looked to, clean, fat and chuddy.

So where have you seen muslims supporting bin Laden?

Oh, have you heared of mass hysteria and brainwashing lately? Well that works this way: You keep getting bombarded by the same view point from different angles, you think you know it all, but all you really know is what the media want to tell you. The reversal of this process is as you know called awakening, yes?

Open you eyes and look harder.

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Date: Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 00:41:06 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Re: u got to be kidding me.
Message:
What am I to look at? Yeah, I rely on the media but with some work, alot of good info can be gleaned. And some of that info is that there is considerable anti-American sentiment is Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Lybia, Palestine? and Syria(to a lesser extent). Exactly how much I don't know. But there are enough decent sources on CNN, PBS, MSNBC, etc. to consider it. And certainly more than considering it isn't true just for the sake of 'awakening'.

60 Minutes II showed a group of adolescent Muslim girls in Pakistan expressing their absolute adoration for bin Laden. 'We want our husbands and sons to be just like him', they said.

Dr. Bob Arnot, all week in Pakistan witnesses enough anti-American sentiment to be concerned. Listening to him, you can tell he's telling the truth.

William Arkin, a military analyst, suggests America tread lightly in the Islamic world because there are enough people who dislike America to be worried about.

What are your sources?

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Date: Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 03:53:11 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: that's classified
Message:
don't belive most of what cnn does. All CNN cares about is how high their shares are. I find them to be the first that want to start a war. Girls enfatuated with bin Laden, come on, even american chicks like him. Above from Saudia Arabia in you're list I would say that the countries that you are talking about are a bit questionable.

These are some of the links I use.

Have fun on the weekend going throught them ()):)())

My Embaressing Messy News Page

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 11:16:42 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: My sentiment exactly
Message:
Last night, West Wing had a special episode on terrorism, made in the aftermath of the events of September 11th. It was a well done dramatic examination of terrorism, but it failed, IMHO, to expose the root cause of it. In fact, I found myself appalled at it's conclusions, that it's the poor, the oppressed, who rise up as terrorists against their oppressors.

Poor people don't rise up against anybody. They just suffer silently until lead into battle by those who have something to be gained by their sacrifice. How poor is bin Laden, the Taliban, Saddam Hussein or Arafat?

Only rich people point to the poor and say, 'See, if that wasn't happenning, there'd be no terrorism.' Bullshit. If there were no rich who were jealous of there fellow rich and wanted what they have, then there'd be no terrorism. So stop blaming the poor, rich people. They just suffer the consequences of you rich motherfuckers fighting to be King Of The Hill.


---

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 07:00:07 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: All
Subject: I know who was behind caca
Message:
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ilovemaharaji
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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 10:27:00 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Not true
Message:
The guy who runs that silly club is an EX! I know him. Look at the satire there for pete's sake!
Good for a laugh anyway Salam.
Tonette
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 08:10:18 (EDT)
From: salsa
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: the post
Message:
Re: LORD MAHARAJI says NO MORE carlos_harden
8/22/01 3:36 pm
The founder(s) of CAC, aparently premies, have created an obstacle for our Master while trying to serve Him. S/he/they claim to document thouroughly everything they publish. Yet they published information about the WRONG Pat Conlan, a gay man in San Francisco who has never been involved with us, who has never even been to 1 satsang, video event, satelite feed or program attended by our Master, thinking he was Pat Conlon the gay ex who lives in San Francisco.
This rather effectively destroys CAC's credibility, as well as exposing its founder(s) to civil liabilities. Worse, there were a number of exes who had been moving away from being obstacles to our Master's work. One, who had been an Assistant Forum Administrator on the ex's Forum 5, had even retutrned to the practice of Knowledge. Another, who was also named by CAC in their list, gerry, had been moving towards neutrality. Now he has been reinspired to oppose our Master; and he is one of the exes who has evolved varios ways to use the media to hinder prachar.
So, please remember, dear premies, that when we speak in a public forum, such as this one, potential aspirants will see us as His representatives. We MUST exersise caution to never hinder Him while still being open and honest. It isn't always easy, but it can be done. It MUST be done, if we wish to be His servents and not His obstacles; that, or we must remain silent.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 12:29:44 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: None
To: salsa
Subject: Re: the post
Message:
Barf bag, please.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 07:41:59 (EDT)
From: [Blank]
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: The 14 lies of JHB
Message:
I thought Bjorne is getting voiceourous a bit having a go at jhb and accusing him of making 14 lies. I found that strange. Now why would he mention that particular number for? And considering how large ex-premie.org is, I don't find that terribly bad.

The 14 lies of jhb

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 08:00:56 (EDT)
From: how did you circumvent the
Email: None
To: [Blank]
Subject: 'no name' error feature?
Message:
it would never let ME do that. you must have ops or admin or something.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 11:45:37 (EDT)
From:  
Email: None
To: how did you circumvent the
Subject: You're not a member of
Message:
the elite internet spy network.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 12:15:06 (EDT)
From:  
Email: None
To:  
Subject: You need to be 'EX' rated...
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 21:24:12 (EDT)
From: ())()) ha-ha
Email: None
To:  
Subject:
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 06:13:43 (EDT)
From: berni
Email: bernee@flashmail.com
To: All
Subject: What this Forum is really about.
Message:
Hi all,
I just wanted to voice my agreement with Pat when he says that, despite the theme of the forum, he lacks enthusiasm for discussions about Maharji and 'knowledge'. I suppose to premies it means everything to be able to go under the blanket rather than think about the terrible things that are going on, but to those of us who have lost any faith we might have had in some sort of guiding force (god?) to this random, violent life, it is all of little significance.
Of course, as I have said before, I recognise the importance of providing an alternative to the Elan Vital propaganda (thus helping aspirants make a better informed decision) and the support of those escaping.
But it is these conversations about what can be done to move the human race forward since September 11th that have drawn me back in. We all got got sucked into premiedom because we wanted to know more about the human condition and how best to improve ourselves. Now that we no longer trust that M knows how to help us with either, we only have each other - which is why the forum can be so important.
I feel an important lesson was learnt in however many years each of us spent under the spell of knowledge and it trappings. i.e. Don't trust leaders - they are no wiser than any one else and should be there simply to oraganise things and administer the wishes of the people. In fact, it is more than likely that leaders are way out of touch with normal life and are less wise to what's going on than those they lead.
That's why it's a shame that there is so much pro/anti feelings about America, Ireland, England etc.
Surely it's the people in each country that count - not the government that is usually voted in by a small percentage of the population and more than likely contains more members that have been corrupted by power or greed than genuine public servants. We have a much stronger bond here on the net that transcends geographical boundaries and will, as time goes on, hopefully grow to make a 'one-world' society.
So IMHO, despite the political argy-bargy, all these conversations about what society should be doing to make the world a safer place, are relevant on an ex-premie forum. Also, because of the irrational emotional defensive attitude we must have all felt if anyone criticisced our Lord, we are better able to understand, to some small degree, the mentality of religious fundamentalists. I hope that Bush and cohorts have spent a long time talking to ex-members of Al-Qaeda as, in the same way that EPO and exes can portray and accurate picture of the whole premie world, so too will the ex-al-qaeda's be able to help to 'know your enemy'.
I guess what is not relevant is the defense that some people have of a particular political party or the idea that all Americans, Russians, Brits etc. are all the same and attack a whole nation because of a few statements read in the newspaper.

Apart from the reasons above, I think there is a deeper raison d'etre for this forum and Nigels recent post has the beginnings of a sort of forum constitution...
'pro-common sense, pro-democracy, pro-universal human rights, pro- the safety and security of innocent civilians everywhere. I am anti the exploitation of the poor by the rich, anti the persecution of minorities, anti one-party communism, anti the uninvited meddling in smaller nations' affairs by their more powerful neighbours (be it from countries on the left or right), anti-dictatorships of the left, right or fundamentalist nutter. Oh - and I am also anti-organised religion, new-age beliefs and creationist thought. Then there's anti-handgun-law, anti-death penalty, anti-royalist and anti the existence of an unelected House of Lords....and anti-pacifist on the grounds that there is indeed such thing as a just war
I know this was not meant to be a manifesto, and I hope you don't mind me quoting it, Nigel, but maybe some of us should use this as a starting point to define our interpretation of what we are doing here.
Anyhow,I know we are powerless to do much about whatever happens in Afghanistan etc. ( no matter what we think or say it looks like there will be fighting soon) but I find it helpful to read and discuss these issues on a forum where people have come through what we have - and learnt from it.
I just wish I had more time, it's hard enough reading all the posts but contributing as well?!....- I'd better go and do some work now.
Best Wishes
berni

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 11:50:14 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: berni
Subject: Yeah, but let's get real about this
Message:
My colleagues, friends, neighbours and relatives don't need, and aren't drawn to, an internet forum for talking about the implications of September 11. Nor would I ever be, I can't imagine. It's just that we all happened to come together here with a much more precise and unique agenda, to discuss and, in some ways, confront the Maharaji cult that exploited us and continues to exploit others even today. I agree, that agenda, which is not particularly timely, pales in urgency contrasted with the world events that concern us all. But I also see that we're suffering a level of infighting and division here that's most unfortunate given our common bonds as former premies. I've never before had a bone to pick with Dermot, Nigel, Moley, Cynthia or many others who I've enjoyed sharing this space with but now politics has 'rented us asunder'. If only people were inclined to make the simple transition of using AG for these issues and leaving this forum for Maharaji-related issues, it'd be no problem. Those who wanted to hash political matters out could do so, keeping a clean slate, as it were, on this forum, for the topics that really bring us together more than they divide us. We need a certain level of cohesiveness, some fundamental agreements, I think, if we want to avoid being just another internet fight club.

Now, I know that, in some ways, world events can't help but reflect various ways on Maharaji and his cult. But most of the political discussion here hasn't been about that anyway. So, that's what I think. I'm going to try to encourage people to move these discussions over there. I mean, what's the harm in doing that? Nothing, as far as I can tell.

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 11:03:18 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim! Good post but.....
Message:
It seems the only way to talk with you is the forum? I really wish you'd drop me an E mail back once in a while? Whats up man?
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 20:14:44 (EDT)
From: Moley
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: I agree Jim
Message:
The whole political stuff here is getting out of hand.Rented us asunder. - yeh that's the phrase. It's even infected the gentle Recent Exes! Sending the politics to AG gets my vote.
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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:04:09 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: I'll go along with that [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 18:52:15 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Yeah, but let's get real about this
Message:
Jim:

I'm not really into discussing the WTC attack on AG along with the other stuff that finds its way there. And I'm not into Berni's 'manifesto' either. I don't disagree with the specific points, but have a hunch I'd disagree with the implied program. I'm not really into discussing Maharaji either. So I guess that lets me out of about everything. That's OK. My thinking has sort of gelled to a concise explanation of the phenomenon anyway, and it's time to get back to some of my money-making projects and exercise program.

--Scott

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 17:15:08 (EDT)
From: berni
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Getting real and not religious
Message:
Hi Jim,
I guess you are right about retaining focus and not getting into areas where we have different opinions on
other topics such as politics, education, nutrition and the colour we should paint our walls.
I think most of these debates are a result of the shock, fear, sadness and other emotional turmoil that we have all been experiencing since September 11th.
However I still think, as Dawkins said last week in the Guardian, that this whole tragedy has come about through religious indoctrination and that is directly related to the subject matter of the forum.
He speculates about how people with the mentality of the highjackers could be developed...but because I have no scanner I will just quote a few sections ( missing bits between [..])
'...You'd have to get them young. Feed them a complete and self-consistent background mythology to make the big lie (that they would be rewarded with 72 Virgin Brides etc. in heaven ) sound plausible when it comes. Give them a holy book and make them learn it by heart.... As luck would have it, we have just the thing to hand; a ready-made system of mind-control which has been honed over centuries, handed down through generations. Millions of people have been brought up in it.
It is called religion and, for reasons which one day we may understand, most people fall for it ( nowhere more so than America itself, though the irony passes unnoticed). Now all we need is to round up a few of these faith-heads and give thtem flying lessons.
[..]
I am trying to call attention to the elephant in the room that everybody is too polite - or too devout - to notice: religion, and specifically the devaluing effect that religion has on human life. I don't mean devaluing the life of others (though it can do that too), but devaluing one's own life. Religion teaches the dangerous nonsense that death is not the end [..] that a matryr's death is equivalent to pressing the hyperspace button and zooming throught a wormhole to another universe [..] especially if they also believe that other universe is a paradisical escape from the tribulations of the real world. '
Richard Dawkins September 15th.
But I guess this challenges religion as a whole rather than Elan Vital and is not the 'precise and unique agenda, to discuss and, in some ways, confront the Maharaji cult that exploited us' that you define the forum as. So I agree that maybe some of these debates should be off on another forum except for those OT subjects that help us ex-premies find inspiration in our heathen lives.
But at least we are free to discuss these things amongst ourselves - rather than the old days of S.S & M. and nothing else, apart from darshan/devotion ( the fourth leg of the stool ).
all the best
berni
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 19:35:40 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: berni
Subject: Thanks, Berni
Message:
...for typing out that Dawkins stuff. Definitely not OT.

I actually enjoy the OT stuff as it gives me insight into the people here but I think the political stuff is being divisive and rubbing a few people the wrong way. We'll never all agree politically although I've quite enjoyed the debate. The thing is that it has begun to dominated the forum almost to the exclusion of on-topic and other off-topic stuff.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 15:42:12 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yeah but Jim
Message:
it seems to me it's just been a 'a fucking huge mega hurricane in a teacup ' , I'm sure it'll blow over :)

No really , after all my moans, groans , disputes and everything else I know (after a little breather) that the diverse people here (Right, Left or centre) are as interesting and intelligent bunch of folks to be found anywhere.I'm sure a sense of cohesiveness will return in the natural flow of things.

Speaking for myself, I've had my moans about things happening here recently but there's no real animosity.Hey, I've been trying REALLY hard to dislike Scott for ages and just can't do it :)

As for me , I'm having a little break ,,,,,believe it or not I have important deadlines to meet but as it's more self employment than a boss breathing down my neck, I've let it slip.And yeah, I reckon the main focus here is already returning to focus on you know who. Slowly but surely.

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 21:59:42 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: I could have said that.
Message:
As for me , I'm having a little break ,,,,,believe it or not I have important deadlines to meet but as it's more self employment than a boss breathing down my neck, I've let it slip.And yeah,

Could have said that myself. As for good off topic topics how about the mattress racket, huh? That's one wierd business. There are so many versions of the Serta mattress I can't get a straight answer from anyone as to exactly what I bought, or what damn good the 'price guarantee' is, if there are half a gazillion 'models.' And don't get me started on auto insurance.

--Scott

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 04:32:35 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: I could have said that.
Message:
Haha lost me again ...how did we get on to mattresses....though I actually could use a new one.

Anyway, I'm just having a mooch round the forum this Friday morning and then that's it !! No more READING or posting for a little while. If I read , I'll end up posting and then get consumed once again.

However, hopefully I'll return refreshed and on topic.

Hope the good ole USA picks up its spirit and hope your country isn't subject to any more outside attacks.

Catch you and everyone later.

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 19:39:53 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: I hope YOUR country aint attacted! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 23:47:51 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: glad your back already [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 08:34:27 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Just lightly.
Message:
Bill:

I'm posting a little, but getting some work done first. Cycling season's winding down too, and this is the time of year when they have all the 'century' (100 mile) rides. I'm not in very good cycling shape so will have to take it easy, but good way to catch up with all my buddies (if I can *keep* up with them).

--Scott

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 05:33:07 (EDT)
From: toby
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Maharaji is happy
Message:
'cause we don't even talk about him here anymore.
No one tries to bring him down here and all Jagdeos are forgotten.
How wonderful for him. Maybe he supported bin Laden with his 'divine Grace'.

Very effecful

Toby

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 22:19:14 (EDT)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: toby
Subject: Divine Grace
Message:
In this time of tribulation the least one would expect of the one greater than god is that he should use all the expensive technology at his disposal to go to the Hindu Kush & personally give knowledge to the big bad ass.

Wouldn't that solve everything ? After all he did promise to bring peace to the world .

It's not as though pigs can't fly , GMJ has proven in his own person that they can . So what's the fucker up to . Beats me.

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 02:59:08 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: PatD
Subject: Ah hahaha! An opportunity..
Message:
I've an idea as to what M may be doing. I imagine this would be such an opportunity for that experience. Probably rounding up a few of his premie slaves and having them fortify his house. Let's see, there's the special linear filters that have to be installed in order to protect his holy family from any sort of spores. Then there's the special lead lined luxury living quarters just in case one of the nuclear power plants melt down. Oh, and don't forget to have that chopper gassed and ready just in case he needs a quick get away!
Wouldn't surprise me at all!
Kind regards, Tonette
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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 03:27:58 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: An opportunity..why not
Message:
Exactly PatD and Tonette. Why can't his holeyness, the very Rev Rawat, go to BLT (the unkosher tref gazah, Bin Laden Terrorist - a BLT's got bacon in it for non-Yanks) and tell him the truth. Isn't Knowledge the truth?

No, Rawat doesn't believe in the power of his Knowledge anymore than we do which is why he has settled for wealth, luxury and laziness and which is why he is incapable of propagating it in the west anymore.

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 04:09:32 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Hey Pat or others. A question
Message:
I'm curious and have not been reading the forum for some time. Maharaji and his dying cult just isn't worth the time for me right now. But I would like to know if M made any statements to his premies about the Sept 11 attacks and what the gist of those statements were if any.
Hope everyone is well and happy.
Tonette
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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 04:20:50 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Cliched crocodile tears
Message:
Soon after WTC he posted a prayer to God (not himself) on his website asking it to help us in our hour of suffering. That's it. It was so generic that it could of been a prayer asking for relief from his hemorrhoids (sp?)
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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 04:40:54 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: How pathetically shallow
Message:
Man there's no hope at all for the premies if they don't see thru this shit. Their 'master,' and that's the best he can do? Come on now.
I am really surprised that M didn't capitalize on the tragedy to puff himself up. How about holding a program or event to raise funds for disaster relief? Or let's all get together 'as one' in that knowledge in order to better understand our insignificant lives. Man, M could of spun this everywhere but Sunday. But to leave his premies just sort of hanging? What a wake up call! Are these people who follow M at all aware? Do they even feel anything anymore? Can they put two and two together?
Too much, too fucking much!

And so very telling.

Love to you Pat, Tonette

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 13:08:31 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: When u r happy, issues don't matter
Message:
That's a quote from his latest intro video.

Love to you too, Tonette.

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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 22:55:26 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Fucken VIRUS! ot
Message:
Hey everyone how the fuck are ya? I've been off for a fucking month. Picked up a fucking virus from hell that took everything off my desk top, wiped out my start menue, and blew my activeX security files. If it wasn't for a friend sending me a boot disk and the start up CD - I think I would have had to throw my system into the landfill! Not one tech would touch me, and not one store that sold my system would ither! Fuckers. Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone has had a simular virus (the same prognosis?). And what did you do about it? SHIT ITS FUCKING GREAT TO BE WIRED AGAIN!!!!!!I thought I was going to fucken die!! YEEEEEeeeEEEEeeeEEeeee HAAaaaaAAAaaa Mutha Fuckas- I'm BACK!!!!
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 08:24:17 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Re: was it SirCam??
Message:
some questions: are you running Windows? do you have a folder that came pre-named 'My documents'?
if you did, or do, first off, CHANGE THE NAME OF THAT FOLDER RIGHT NOW. call it anything but that.
next Q:
look in your recycle area for something starting with SirC or SCam. if you see any such, sircam is still in your system.
then go look to see what is in your exe. stash. look for the same tags again. if you find anything there matching those prefixes, sircam has wormed into your drivers. bad news. it will check your date clock everyday for a date in october, soon, and when tht day comes, it will activate a russian roulette program to decide whether to overwrite or wipeout your hard drive. you are not out of the woods yet.

if you find it in your exe. drive, it has promoted itself to become the default driver of every thing you ever runon an exe command. keep that reboot backup master handy.

and beware of your incoming email if you get anything from anyone, esp aomeone you dont know, and it says something bland and inoccuous like

'hi. how are you. i sent you the following file in order to have your opinion. thank you. talk to you soon'
followed by an attachment

then youve jus gotten it AGAIN.
dont open it. but thats not enough.

if you have it sitting there, its already gone looking for your 'my documents' folder and if you still have such a folder, its looking for a nice big chunky one at random, composing an outgoing email to your whole address book, attaching the document to it, embedding the script for the virus worm, to infect everyone further on down the line.

if you get such an email, go look at your 'sent mail' storage and see if such a mass mailing went out without you doing it.
if you find such a record, immediately email everyone on the list and tell them what i told you here.
they have SirCam, if you see that. also, reply to whoever sent you the innoccuous email and warn them as well, same as the sent folks.

it crossed my ming back in midsummer when i first read of this, that it could well be part of a global terrorist strike to try and bring down the internet on that time bomb date in the sirCam script. windows is what US govt offices use in their computers. if the sircam worm got into enough of them, it could bring down the system for a while. maybe long enough to let them do something much bigger than sept 11.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 18:34:00 (EDT)
From: Susannah
Email: susimae@yahoo.com
To: janet
Subject: Re: was it SirCam??
Message:
Dear Janet,
I am new to the use of a computer (less than a year). How do you NOT open e-mails? I find that I cannot delete them until I open them. Please enlighten me! Susannah
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 17:39:33 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: was it SirCam??
Message:
Janet:

My understanding was the SirCam uses vulnerable mail servers (it may not use yours) so the sent items folder won't necessarily show who has been contacted. SirCam is pretty innocuous compared to this PE_MAGISTR bug. I think SirCam just destroys files (including executables) and is fairly easily removed. I cleaned a friends computer of SirCam last week. I don't open anything that looks even vaguely suspicious. Apparently though, this new NIMBDA worm doesn't even require that you *open* any attachments. Just reading the email will do it. (Assume you can see it in the preview window though.)

--Scott

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 06:10:24 (EDT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: hey
Message:
it could have been worse. At least your brain wasn't eaten by a greedy guru...like it happened to many of us.

())

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 10:59:50 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: silvia
Subject: TRUE!nt
Message:
ddddd
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 01:42:15 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: PE_MAGISTR.DAM (ot)
Message:
I got several emails with attachments that had this critter (similar to a number of virii in the same family) but fortunately didn't open any. Apparently a trojan/virus/worm that screws up your exe files, registry and even the CMOS BIOS. By sister and niece have it. I use TrendMicro's PC-Cillin2000, which updates the virus files and the software. Caught it and deleted the email as soon as it hit my inbox.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 02:27:17 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: PE_MAGISTR.DAM (ot)
Message:
Just in case anyone wasn't as luck as I.
[ PE_MAGISTR Fix ]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 01:59:30 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: thank u scott
Message:
I'll check it out. It was such a drag being out-o-comission there for so long.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 00:41:48 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Re: Fucken VIRUS! ot
Message:
Barry,

I hope you have Norton Anti Virus or McAfee and are keeping the virus definitions current. It's the only way, cowboy!

Francesca

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:16:28 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Your -thus spake god- post was a hoot
Message:
NEW YORK—Responding to recent events on Earth, God, the omniscient creator-deity worshipped by billions of followers of various faiths for more than 6,000 years, angrily clarified His longtime stance against humans killing each other Monday.

'Look, I don't know, maybe I haven't made myself completely clear, so for the record, here it is again,' said the Lord, His divine face betraying visible emotion during a press conference near the site of the fallen Twin Towers. 'Somehow, people keep coming up with the idea that I want them to kill their neighbor. Well, I don't. And to be honest, I'm really getting sick and tired of it. Get it straight. Not only do I not want anybody to kill anyone, but I specifically commanded you not to, in really simple terms that anybody ought to be able to understand.'

Worshipped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike, God said His name has been invoked countless times over the centuries as a reason to kill in what He called 'an unending cycle of violence.'

'I don't care how holy somebody claims to be,' God said. 'If a person tells you it's My will that they kill someone, they're wrong. Got it? I don't care what religion you are, or who you think your enemy is, here it is one more time: No killing, in My name or anyone else's, ever again.'

The press conference came as a surprise to humankind, as God rarely intervenes in earthly affairs. As a matter of longstanding policy, He has traditionally left the task of interpreting His message and divine will to clerics, rabbis, priests, imams, and Biblical scholars. Theologians and laymen alike have been given the task of pondering His ineffable mysteries, deciding for themselves what to do as a matter of faith. His decision to manifest on the material plane was motivated by the deep sense of shock, outrage, and sorrow He felt over the Sept. 11 violence carried out in His name, and over its dire potential ramifications around the globe.

'I tried to put it in the simplest possible terms for you people, so you'd get it straight, because I thought it was pretty important,' said God, called Yahweh and Allah respectively in the Judaic and Muslim traditions. 'I guess I figured I'd left no real room for confusion after putting it in a four-word sentence with one-syllable words, on the tablets I gave to Moses. How much more clear can I get?'

'But somehow, it all gets twisted around and, next thing you know, somebody's spouting off some nonsense about, 'God says I have to kill this guy, God wants me to kill that guy, it's God's will,'' God continued. 'It's not God's will, all right? News flash: 'God's will' equals 'Don't murder people.''

Worse yet, many of the worst violators claim that their actions are justified by passages in the Bible, Torah, and Qur'an.

'To be honest, there's some contradictory stuff in there, okay?' God said. 'So I can see how it could be pretty misleading. I admit it—My bad. I did My best to inspire them, but a lot of imperfect human agents have misinterpreted My message over the millennia. Frankly, much of the material that got in there is dogmatic, doctrinal bullshit. I turn My head for a second and, suddenly, all this stuff about homosexuality gets into Leviticus, and everybody thinks it's God's will to kill gays. It absolutely drives Me up the wall.'

God praised the overwhelming majority of His Muslim followers as 'wonderful, pious people,' calling the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks rare exceptions.

'This whole medieval concept of the jihad, or holy war, had all but vanished from the Muslim world in, like, the 10th century, and with good reason,' God said. 'There's no such thing as a holy war, only unholy ones. The vast majority of Muslims in this world reject the murderous actions of these radical extremists, just like the vast majority of Christians in America are pissed off over those two bigots on The 700 Club.'

Continued God, 'Read the book: 'Allah is kind, Allah is beautiful, Allah is merciful.' It goes on and on that way, page after page. But, no, some assholes have to come along and revive this stupid holy-war crap just to further their own hateful agenda. So now, everybody thinks Muslims are all murderous barbarians. Thanks, Taliban: 1,000 years of pan-Islamic cultural progress down the drain.'

God stressed that His remarks were not directed exclusively at Islamic extremists, but rather at anyone whose ideological zealotry overrides his or her ability to comprehend the core message of all world religions.

'I don't care what faith you are, everybody's been making this same mistake since the dawn of time,' God said. 'The Muslims massacre the Hindus, the Hindus massacre the Muslims. The Buddhists, everybody massacres the Buddhists. The Jews, don't even get me started on the hardline, right-wing, Meir Kahane-loving Israeli nationalists, man. And the Christians? You people believe in a Messiah who says, 'Turn the other cheek,' but you've been killing everybody you can get your hands on since the Crusades.'

Growing increasingly wrathful, God continued: 'Can't you people see? What are you, morons? There are a ton of different religious traditions out there, and different cultures worship Me in different ways. But the basic message is always the same: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Shintoism... every religious belief system under the sun, they all say you're supposed to love your neighbors, folks! It's not that hard a concept to grasp.'

'Why would you think I'd want anything else? Humans don't need religion or God as an excuse to kill each other—you've been doing that without any help from Me since you were freaking apes!' God said. 'The whole point of believing in God is to have a higher standard of behavior. How obvious can you get?'

'I'm talking to all of you, here!' continued God, His voice rising to a shout. 'Do you hear Me? I don't want you to kill anybody. I'm against it,
across the board. How many times do I have to say it? Don't kill each other anymore—ever! I'm fucking serious!'

Upon completing His outburst, God fell silent, standing quietly at the podium for several moments. Then, witnesses reported, God's shoulders
began to shake, and He wept.

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:31:00 (EDT)
From: Francesca :P
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Glad you liked it
Message:
I also fancied that one that someone posted about the hijackers ending up in hell instead of heaven, though it was a bit gruesome. (All from www.theonion.com)

My coworker liked the one about the lady who couldn't figure out what to do to help so she baked an American flag cake. My friend has been in such a tizzy over all this stuff that she could really relate to that way of using her nervous energy!

Bests, F

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 15:43:13 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: You got it
Message:
Barry,

I hope you have Norton Anti Virus or McAfee and are keeping the virus definitions current. It's the only way, cowboy!

Francesca


---

There's about 10,000 or so of the little critters out there, and new ones are being created every day. Some are more popular than others. The only way to protect yourself against them is as you say, Francesca. Anybody who doesn't have a good anti-virus program for which they're downloading the latest definition files is skating on thin ice. Cleaning viruses is a pain after they've struck. Most of them are relatively harmless, but some of them can render your system inoperable. I recommend the same programs you mention, Norton Anti-Virus or MacAfee. Both provide excellent protection, provided you keep them current which is easily done by downloading the latest DAT (virus definition files) from thier websites.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 23:22:05 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Norton and MacAfee
Message:
I don't like either of those programs. Norton frequently iterferes with other programs and with installations, and MacAfee is responsible for destroying a hard disk a few years ago (their utility program, not the anti-virus). Updating the files isn't transparant, and they charge a fee for the most powerful versions. My landlady had Norton, and I made sure she had a subscription to the autoupdate feature. Still, it completely missed SirCam, which I had to remove with TrendMicro. Norton was just happily humming away not saying a word as SicCam mailed the virus to everyone on her contact list, including me twice. TrendMicro's PC-Cillin2000 has been very reliable, and virtually transparent. Updating the program and virus file is easy, and the web trap and email filters work great.

http://www.trendmicro.com

--Scott

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:38:06 (EDT)
From: Francesca :P
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: My other virus protection is ...
Message:
... not to use Outlook e-mail. Norton's caught everything that anyone has tried to send me, but if you don't update your virus definitions, you're screwed.

Don't EVEN talk to me about Norton Ultilies or McAfee utilities. I HATE utilities
---
they are like a virus themselves!!

Don't know what you mean by charge a fee for the most powerful versions -- could you elaborate? I'd like to know the pros and cons. So far, Norton's worked like a charm, hasn't messed with any of my installs (I disable it when I install, but not always). My subscription expires, then I just buy a new version. I've never heard of an extra fee, except when my software was 2 years old. Usually by the time they charge a fee, it's better just to buy the new program, which is about the same price as the fee and has more functionality.

What do you mean by 'transparent'?

Francesca

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 08:53:13 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Francesca :P
Subject: Re: My other virus protection is ...
Message:
Fran:

PC-cillin 2000 is $30. I just click 'update' every once in awhile (about once a week) and it updates both the scan engine and the pattern file, installs and runs the new version. I use the previous version for about 3 years, which updated my from version 3 to eventually version 6. Couldn't continue to use it because the Win98 program isn't compatible with Windows2000, so just bought the latest version. (There's a Win98 or ME version of PC-cillin 2000, but that won't run on the NT-based platform.) I don't have to mess with downloading to a specific directory or changing any file names, and the process seems much more straightforward than my landlady's software. She may not have the full featured version, because she balked at spending another $50 so I just subscribed to the pattern update for about $10 or something. Don't remember, because she never got around to going through the rigmarole of updating anything, which is probably why she missed the infection. But her pattern file was only about a month old. I think you can set PC-cillin to update automatically too, but my ISP goes offline quite a bit so I just do it manually and remind myself every week or so. Takes a couple of minutes. Just my general impression that PC-cillin is less hassle than Norton or MacAfee, but I haven't used their most recent programs. And, of course, PC-cillin is cheaper too.

--Scott

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 12:47:10 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: NortonAv IS that cheap (OT)
Message:
Scott,

I only pay $29.99 for Norton 2001. That may have been after a $10 rebate -- or the rebate made it $19.99, can't remember which. The price has come way down over the years. The first time I bought it in 1995, it was $60.

I don't have to change any file names or download to specific directories -- not sure exactly what you mean by that. In the old days, the updates to NAV were a pain, you did have to go to their website download them and install them. I haven't had to do that for about 3 years or more. You just go online, click on live update, all the files download and install themselves. (Program itself, and virus definitions.) No fuss, no muss. I can't do automatic update because I'm not online all the time my computer is on.

When I get e-mail, a little yellow envelope scans all the e-mail. Every time I open a Microsoft Word file, it scans for the Word macro virus. At work they have the network version and it has caught sir cam and every other ding dang thing around.

In 1995-96, it was not the best program out there, but by the time I was ready to buy again they'd worked out some wierd bugs and vastly improved the product.

Thanks for the info on the other product though!

Francesca

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Date: Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 02:55:44 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Re: NortonAv IS that cheap (OT)
Message:
Fran:

My bother-in-law told me he had gone to the Norton Website and the downloaded verion was $50. I never checked it out m'self.

--Scott

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Date: Sun, Oct 07, 2001 at 00:07:13 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Hmm, I've always been offered
Message:
... the upgrade. Just checked their website and you are right, for the 2002 version. I've always bought it for $29.99 or $39.99 with a $10 rebate. OfficeMax is where I bought it last time. When it first comes out they sometimes charge too much, also!

Francesca

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 08:58:27 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Here's the link
Message:
Forgot to include the link in previous email.
[ PC-cillin 2000 ]
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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 04:42:46 (EDT)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Francesca :P
Subject: Re: My other virus protection is ...
Message:
I've been using InocculateIP for several months now. It's easy to install, very unabtrusive, doesn't hog system resources, and has performed better than my old Norton software or my my newer pain-in-butt McAfee software.

InocculateIP is now being called eTrust Antivirus, and you can download a 60 day trial version free. To buy it is only 19.95. Subsequent annual renewals $9.95.

http://my-etrust.com/products/
[ eTrust antivirus ]

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 17:32:30 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Viruses - How about this solution?
Message:
Hey, computer users!!!!

Don't want to spend money on expensive anti-virus software?

Don't want to slow your system down running resource hogging anti-virus software?

Don't worry! You don't have to!

Let Microsoft do it for you!!!!

Simply get a hotmail account, and when you receive an email with a suspicious looking attachment (and let's face it they all are!), simply forward the email to your hotmail account, try to open the attachment there, and let Hotmail virus check it for you!

If it's infected, go back to your own email and delete the critter pronto (and tell the sender). If it aint, no worries!

Seriously, I now do this, and it's saved me from three attacks recently. I have anti-virus software, but I disable it most of the time because it slows my system down too much. Can anyone see a flaw in this solution?

John.

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Date: Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 00:23:46 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Problemo
Message:
I don't know about Hotmail, but won't work with Yahoo Mail, beause it won't open attachments. You can download attachments and open them on your system, but sort of defeats the purpose.
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Date: Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 05:57:27 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: I know, that's why I said Hotmail
Message:
Where it definitely works.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 23:24:23 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Sounds very practical, to me.
Message:
Thanks.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 01:20:23 (EDT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: ummm..norton what?
Message:
Kidding! You bet Fran. Had Norton Anti virus before, but didn't update on a reg basis. Learned a hard lesson. Thanks!
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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 21:17:13 (EDT)
From: prefer to withhold name
Email: None
To: All
Subject: a book dedication
Message:
I came across a book on homeopathy with the following dedication:

'To GMJ, who showed me the thing I most needed to know.'

Something about it seems strange. Could this be dedicated to Guru Maharaji Ji, by any chance? Any ideas, anybody?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 10:07:21 (EDT)
From: Voyeur
Email: None
To: prefer to withhold name
Subject: Dr. Andy Lockie
Message:
Very much a premie from the early days in the UK and one of the first to see how to generate an income from the 'audience' of adoring premies who knew he had treated the wholy ones....
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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 18:50:50 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Voyeur
Subject: Re: Dr. Andy Lockie
Message:
Andy is a respected homeopathic doctor, as well as a qualified GP. He has co-written and written several authorative books on the subject. He also used to do a medical phone in on Radio London.

He is a nice guy, has a family and works hard. As far as I know, he's never tried to use his connection to the Rawats to get business from premies. He never advertised, or put himself about, in the premie community. He always struck me as having integrity, as well as a kind nature and a sense of humour.

I'd enjoy sharing a dram or two with him any time.

Anth, old friend of the Doc'. (Can we forget about that money I owe you now Andy?)

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 03:56:50 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Voyeur
Subject: Andy Lockie-did you see his pic?
Message:
....on the link that Salam posted...

Now that I've seen his pic I remember him.

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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 21:43:54 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: prefer to withhold name
Subject: Re: a book dedication
Message:
what is the name of the book and the author.

I'd say it could be general motors. you know, the Americans did it, yar?

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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 22:44:09 (EDT)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Re: a book dedication
Message:
definitely, gmj was common short for maharaji...what is title and author of the book? some of us might know the author.
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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:17:59 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Mike how is your bro? -still here? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 00:30:15 (EDT)
From: prefer to withhold name
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Re: a book dedication
Message:
The author is Dr. Andrew Lockie. Sound familiar to anyone? Can't remember the title I'm afraid! Something about Homeopathy.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 07:13:13 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: prefer to withhold name
Subject: that better. Now try this
Message:
Dr Lockie
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 04:22:31 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: prefer to withhold name
Subject: Definitely a premie (at least was)
Message:
Andy Lockie was in the medical ashram in London in c. 1973/4 with my wife. I think I met him once. He obviously was a premie when the book was written, but maybe he's exited since?:-) Do you remember when the book was written?

John.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 04:29:09 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Definitely a premie (at least was)
Message:
I thought I remembered the name from the P of P. He also headed the first aid team for Copenhagen 1974 festival.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 02:34:57 (EDT)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: prefer to withhold name
Subject: He lives in Surrey UK
Message:
Don't know the guy myself, but perhaps someone might remember him.
[ About Dr. Lockie ]
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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 18:35:18 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: David Roupell aka SC grooves at LG
Message:
After the Arizona conference, I am of the opinion that we would be better sharing what love and clarity we do experience with those that wish to enjoy the fruit.

And for David, that means sharing little to no love and clarity.

Anyone catch the what and when of this little Arizona gig? Was this for the big donors?

Argument is impossible when it comes to a living, feeling experience. I am now advising others not to continue participating in feeding other people's relentless need to prove themselves wiser or better informed than others.

Ha, that's pretty funny coming from the self admitted perpetrator of the CAC website libel. Imagine this guy advising anyone of ANYTHING. Too fucking much!

Face to face is the only real litmus test of anything. (urrp-Ed.)

Now come on Dave, give the proper attribution. You couldn't have come up with something as fresh as that yourself. That was ahem, shall we say, 'masterful.'

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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 22:14:23 (EDT)
From: jethro
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: A challenge?
Message:
Face to face is the only real litmus test of anything. (urrp-Ed.)

Is this person saying that he wants a face to face with exs?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 13:43:51 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: jethro
Subject: What piqued my curiosity
Message:
Roupell talks openly about going to Arizona for a meeting with his master and other wealthy donor premies. And now he is telling people basically to not engage the enemy (us, I guess) but to let that peace, that love, that clarity be self evident. Then, I suppose, folks will just naturally flock to the Maha.

So I think it is important to note that perhaps this is the new 'agya.'

Most assuredly the 'ex problem' was discussed. His Holeyness himself probably spaketh a parable unto the faithful (after carefully vetting it's contents with his public relations consultant, his lawyer and his accountant.) They know they can't beat us in the trenches and are hoping we just run out of steam.

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 11:21:54 (EDT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: all the way to AZ from Oz
Message:
And he didn't visit me.
I'm crushed. From what I have seen of the 'communities' here I would say you didn't miss much.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 17:32:49 (EDT)
From: Francesca :)
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Thanks Gerry
Message:
Yeah, either it's the new 'agya' OR they want us to think it is OR Roupell wants us to think it is.

My, my, what's an ex to do???

In any event, thanks for pointing it out. Only time will tell, eh? It would be nice if that were the new agya. Sheesh, you'd think a holey living master would at the very least be into live and let live!

Bests,

Francesca

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 19:39:31 (EDT)
From: Wallabee
Email: None
To: Francesca :)
Subject: SC's a wannabe
Message:
He did not even attend the Arizona meeting. But yes, that was the gist of the meeting.
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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 17:17:28 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: jhb@ex-premie.org
To: All
Subject: New Journeys Entries
Message:
Susannah Donner (no relation) left Maharaji and later found Jesus. Gill Harley left Maharaji and later found Sai Baba. Read all about it here:-

Susannah's story
Gill's story

John.

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 11:40:39 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: They should take shelter on Recent Exe's
Message:
Too bad they'd both be subject to such a grilling if they tried to brign their heart-felt beliefs here. Did you refer them to Recent-Ex's, John? Someplace safe?
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Date: Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 06:16:32 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: They should take shelter on Recent Exe's
Message:
I haven't engaged in any doalogue with them but if you, or anyone else here, wants to, they both left their email addresses. You could write and invite them here if you want:-) I'm sure that ex-premies have close to the same proportion of irrational beliefs as the rest of the population.

John.

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Date: Sat, Oct 06, 2001 at 16:03:23 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: No? You don't say!
Message:
I'm sure that ex-premies have close to the same proportion of irrational beliefs as the rest of the population.

I'm not.

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Date: Sun, Oct 07, 2001 at 05:13:32 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Why not?
Message:
I'm sure that ex-premies have close to the same proportion of irrational beliefs as the rest of the population.

I'm not.


---

Jim,

The vast majority of ex-premies just drifted away and got on with their lives just like people who didn't follow a guru. What makes you think they are in general better at critical thinking than the rest of the population? I think you would agree that many ex-premies have 'new age' beliefs, that would be considered irrational by 'normal' people. Of course, if we are talking about the tiny proportion of ex-premies who are regular readers here, then I would agree that the debates here do help us to examine our beliefs, but even here we have Christians and healers, and I'm sure many have beliefs that they do not care to share with the rest of us.

So what do you think?

John.

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Date: Sun, Oct 07, 2001 at 19:48:12 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: John, I see the bias the OTHER way
Message:
Funny you'd assume I think ex-premies are MORE rational than the general population. In fact, I was thinking the opposite. Too many residual spiritual beliefs, stuff people don't even like to talk about, even. Yes, the GP's got religion but we were, in large part, the real new age adventurers ready to fall for an extreme spiritual myth -- the Living Lord of the Universe as a Fat and Ugly Teenage Guru. Lots and lots of the fundamental magical thinking that allows that leap of faith still abounds in exes, don't you think?
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Date: Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 02:20:44 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Then we agree:)
Message:
Yes I did misunderstand you, and you're probably right.

John.

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Date: Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 02:40:49 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Then we agree:) ooh boy!
Message:
Won't touch that with a ten foot.........

I still have remnants of magical thinking left - mostly out of politenenss sake because I'm outnumbered in SF. Did you know that their are thousands of fringe, lapsed and occassional premies in SF? I see many in the biz. They may cringe at the mention of M but they are uniformly counter culture and new age.

I see no one has so far taken the bait to go back on topic.

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 04:06:00 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: New Journies: PATHETIC! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:20:43 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Yipes! get off that lap! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 06:47:07 (EDT)
From: Vera
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Sai Baba possibly worse than PPSR
Message:
I hate to rain on Gill's parade, but there's been some evidence linking Sai Baba to the sexual abuse of children.

He was, moreover, caught out by the cameras of the Indian Humanist Society in recent times, faking his magic tricks.

Vera

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 21:44:53 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Vera
Subject: They are both scumbags.
Message:
Saibaba has the parents of those boys he interefers with believing that their(the boy's) karma is being taken away.

Also m has nothing on sb.
All you have do to be a devotee of sb is 'believe', no 'knowledge'or meditation.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 19:15:14 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Vera
Subject: Write to Gill
Message:
I doubt she's reading here, but she did give here email address.

John.

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 00:21:40 (EDT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: yeah help gill out with info [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 18:21:51 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Also, White Pages entries
Message:
Just a reminder that EPO has a White Pages section for ex-premies. Currenly there are about 150 entries there including about ten posted since I took over EPO. Have a browse to look for old friends.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 00:46:33 (EDT)
From: carol attley
Email: carolincat@yahoo.com
To: JHB
Subject: white pages
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 17:36:26 (EDT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Out of the frying pan, into the fire (nt)
Message:
x
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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 15:54:51 (EDT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: All
Subject: 'Infinite Justice' or 'Operation Re-think'?
Message:
'Operation Infinite Justice' or should that be 'Operation Re-think'?

One of the most publicised headlines that preceded what was formerly known as operation 'Infinite Justice' had, undoubtedly, to be the 'Wanted: Dead or alive' tag that Bush placed on Bin Laden.

Has the irony of this escaped anyone?

Thinking about this, I wondered: how often has a military operation had to be re-named?

Inspiring confidence in global security is all well and good. But is that what this 'war' is really about? Is it really about making the world a safer place to live in? Or just America?

No doubt my doubts will be seen as 'anti-American', if, as Scott T says,

'... our acknowledgement of a wrong convinces the terrorist or recruit that their thoughts are magic, and their will is destined'.

But I can't help wondering why 'solidarity against terrorism' should mean that we, as the allies of George W Bush's version of democracy, have to use the self-same tactics of terror against our enemies.

Does the word 'Ouroborous' mean anything to anyone here?

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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 15:31:03 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Well, I have a question
Message:
What kind of ego charges $3.00 for a wallet size photograph of himself??? Ick.
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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 17:05:12 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: Well, I have an answer
Message:
What kind of ego charges $3.00 for a wallet size photograph of himself??? Ick.


---

The kind of ego who says: ''Never doubt the purity of the Master'' and ''You cannot come home without the grace of the Master'' and....oh you know all those other megalomaniacal things.

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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 15:03:02 (EDT)
From: Gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Back to Prem, Please, Pals?
Message:
And Cynthia, thanks for your heart felt contributions. You are always welcome here.

Sheesh well, just look at the place. The ashtrays are stuffed to overflowing, there's beer cans scattered all over and nasty white rings on all the nice furniture. The rug's a mess, the dog's been under the bed for three days and who knows what happened to the cat. And there's still some idiot passed out in the garage.

I can't even bear to look at the bathroom...

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 06:02:36 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: LOL (nt)
Message:
whizzbang
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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 20:29:27 (EDT)
From: Nige
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Or how about a compromise..?
Message:
Good point, Ger. We could talk about exactly how Goldenballs is going establish peace in his lifetime. Quick, Prem, make a call to the White House...

Oh - I forgot, he never said that, did he?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 03:22:39 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Nige
Subject: Or how about some enthusiasm ..?
Message:
It sure is hard to find anything more to say about His Holeyness. He just suddenly seems so piddling.

I needed the passion of my anger at his hoax or indignation at his venality to fuel my writings about him. I don't feel like directing my current existential angst at him. It would be neither fair to him or interesting to me.

I think I may have run out of things to say about Rev Rawat. I guess the Maharajism blip has finally disappeared off my radar screen. I'm looking forward to the arrival of a passionately indignant new ex.....

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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 20:54:35 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: None
To: Nige
Subject: Re: Or how about a compromise..?
Message:
'''Goldenballs'''???? Thank you! I haven't laughed like that in days!
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 03:30:58 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: For fun, let's have a baby-throwing festival
Message:
Timmi, that comes from the saying ''thowing out the baby with the bath water.'' I can't remember who invented it. Was it the artist formerly known as Bin Liner or Loaf?

It's very therapeutic to invent new epithets for Balyouguesswhat and be as irreverent as one possibly can be.

My favorite is equating the swirl on His Holeyness' website to the golden toilets in his dilapidated beach cottage in Malibu for which he has just built a guard house for 4.5 million dollars.

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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 18:56:03 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: bananasRus@chiquita.cr
To: Gerry
Subject: cure fer some ham?
Message:
http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/ads/prem.html

is da spam pretender a cured ham or just makin' bacon? Well, all i kin tell ya is: don't pig out on Dat fat ham, y'all... leave a lil room fer some true grits...

Peace and lentils,
[ http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/ads/prem.html ]

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Date: Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 04:52:59 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: OMG!!!! Yeah, I woke
Message:
I woke up and sure enough that was Prem I smelled! Just so happened the toilet backed up during the night. What a stench!
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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 19:24:40 (EDT)
From: ggg
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: You did it again such!. . .
Message:
. . . blimey, eimdh - you struck the right note, with piggy prem's palate teasers!!
cheers m'dear
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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 17:31:59 (EDT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Back to Prem
Message:
OK, you guys can go back to talking about Prempal Rawat. I'm not really interested, except as a sort of surrogate for the general issues raised by charisma and cult thinking. They both involve dilemmas, because I view charisma as essential and problematic at the same time. Life's just like that, I guess. To me the last few weeks have been part of an effort to make the general discussion around Maharaji practical, because the truth is not many people care about him in particular. It's also a huge object lesson in the ultimate implications of cult orientation. Sort of whimsical to think about an ex-al Queda website getting sidetracked into a discussion of Maharaji. I'll leave you with that one. :-)

--Scott

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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 16:32:01 (EDT)
From: Francesca :o
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Lock de door and ...
Message:
... throw away the key. Right on, FA. People are going to be chased away by this mess after a while!

--f

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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 16:53:22 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Francesca :o
Subject: I swear on the bible that
Message:
from now on I will not talk about politics only crazy religious cults.
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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 15:37:50 (EDT)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Lock Icon?
Message:
Hi Gerry:

I noticed some threads have a lock icon on the first post. All the posts come up blank under the locked threads (I guess that's what the lock means, huh?).

Thanks
B

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Date: Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 15:05:45 (EDT)
From: XX
Email: None
To: Gerry
Subject: Re: Back to Prem, Please, Pals?
Message:
>Sheesh well, just look at the place.

How is your head doing?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 10:34:30 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: XX
Subject: stop and look hard
Message:
This suddenly smacks of the same idiotic shaming and censoring we did to each other in the ashram, guys. Remember? 'no chit-chat!' 'focus your mind on the form of guru maharaj JI' 'let's get back to the practice. we arent here to talk about other subjects. Maharaji's all that matters in this world.'

take a good long look.

this is exactly the head-in-the sand habit we excoriate premies for.

talking about the great wide world in general is healthy. we are the family of man. the human race. we can address maharaji stuff if someone comes in needing to, but amongst ourselves, the very reason we are different from our still pointy headed brethren is because we realized there was far more to life and the world than repeatedly making ourselves turn away from things that attracted our attention and making ourselves dutifully resume the position, and try to concentrate on Him.

we stopped doing that, remember? and we stopped making it our lives' purpose to make others do it so everyone would be like we were.

and suddenly the ancient programming reasserts itself and we hear the voices monotonously reminding us to drop those other subjects, and return our focus to Him.

yuuuuuuck.

are ya seeing it? are ya hearing it? where else have we heard this refrain before?

I thought we were over it!

so which one of you guys decided you were gonna be Satsang monitor, without consulting us? is there a schedule? a dress code? a list of bongos? a glossary of terms for the unenlightened?

please take a hard look at this and ask yourself what reflex just kicked in, and is this what you want in your life?

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 21:35:14 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: yeah, u tell em girl
Message:
go janet go. Them FA suckers are trying to censor free speach. Bastards.
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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 12:06:51 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: stop and look hard
Message:
so which one of you guys decided you were gonna be Satsang monitor, without consulting us? is there a schedule? a dress code? a list of bongos? a glossary of terms for the unenlightened?

I guess that would be me. Any time there is a vote of 'no confidence' I'll relinquish the password to the next sucker, er person. Patty will be happy to see the $100 plus per month charge vanish from her credit card. And I can go back to being oh so gErRy.

And you can post naked if you like. I sometimes do. You are definitely on the bongo list, though. Come to think of it, so am I.

And you have just been assigned the service of collating a glossary of terms for the unenlightened.

But seriously Janet, I have plans to spruce the place up, make it more 'multifunctional' and devise a financial plan to make the forum pay for its self, and perhaps--gasp--a small stipend for me. I'm unemployed and also enjoying all the advantages of Hep C so I need to look at non physically taxing ways to generate income.

Ta for the posts, though. I've been wondering where you were...

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 12:39:13 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: hi gerry
Message:
i have the hep c markers in my blood. cant donate anymore. no symtoms tho. puzzlement as to where i was exposed to it. none of the usual behaviors for catching it.
bummer bout yours.

assuredly-- you are the farthest thing from a nose in the air,perfect premie satsang monitor that i have ever seen. stay like that.

where've i been? glued to the all night tv news, sleeping days. its 9:30 am and i really need to crash.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 13:07:36 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: 'The usual behaviors'
Message:
i have the hep c markers in my blood. cant donate anymore. no symtoms tho. puzzlement as to where i was exposed to it. none of the usual behaviors for catching it.

Yes, well the usual behaviors can be as mundane as having received any blood or blood fractionals before 1990. That include gamma globulin and the like which are made from the blood of hundreds of individuals. Many or most hemophiliacs have Hepatitis C.

And some people include going to the dentist as part of the 'usual behaviors.' Inhaled blood aerosol from the high speed drills. Lots of dentists have HCV of 'unknown' origin.

Anyone out there ever share a snort with someone and use the same staw? Oh what a perfect vector for this organism. Microscopic blood droplets innoculated directly into the nasal passages. Home sweet home.

My point is EVERYONE should be tested.

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Date: Thurs, Oct 04, 2001 at 12:11:58 (EDT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Hey Gerry
Message:
You are very funny and non-defensive. I am so sorry to hear you have 'C.' Are you in England or US? Would you mind e-mailing me about this (I have a couple of ideas). darlingwave@aol.com
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