JHB -:- Forum Links on EPO -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 19:41:06 (EDT)

Pat:C) -:- From LG: SC's theory about ''Pam'' -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:57:36 (EDT)

__ CW -:- Re: From LG: SC's theory about ''Pam'' -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 18:19:31 (EDT)

How much do I need to contribute -:- to become a Visions sponsor? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:59:45 (EDT)

__ Can I change -:- my sponsorship amount? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:04:17 (EDT)

__ __ Don't my contributions to E.V. -:- cover the broadcast and materials projects? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:13:13 (EDT)

__ __ __ Why is my support still needed -:- if access to broadcasts is now free? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:18:34 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ May I give to both -:- the EV and Visions projects??? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:21:51 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Ex-Pam -:- Can you supply facts? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:20:55 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Yoram Weiss -:- Yes -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:27:56 (EDT)

__ __ Pauline Premie -:- Re: my sponsorship amount???? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:10:18 (EDT)

__ __ __ Tim Gallstones -:- The Inner Game of Cult Scamming -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:05:33 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Your Book Editor -:- Re: The Inner Game of Cult Scamming -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 18:01:40 (EDT)

Jim -:- What if Dettmers had joined RE? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:16:35 (EDT)

__ PatD -:- Re: What if Dettmers had joined RE? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 16:17:51 (EDT)

__ __ Tim G -:- Re: What if Dettmers had joined RE? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 17:12:13 (EDT)

__ Steve Quint -:- Recent Exes Forum -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:41:30 (EDT)

__ __ Jim -:- You obviously were'nt sincere enough, Steve -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:47:19 (EDT)

__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Re: You obviously were'nt sincere enough, Steve -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:52:41 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Hey Steve -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:31:40 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Ditto, Steve and Dermot -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:34:48 (EDT)

Joe -:- What are the Cult Honchos Paid?? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 12:39:41 (EDT)

__ Lesley -:- Kaye McKinnon's salary -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 16:17:45 (EDT)

__ __ Joe -:- Thanks, Lesley -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 16:45:15 (EDT)

__ XX -:- Re: What are the Cult Honchos Paid? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:07:20 (EDT)

__ __ CW -:- Re: What are the Cult Honchos Paid? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 18:32:18 (EDT)

__ __ Joe -:- You are dense, I think -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:10:51 (EDT)

__ __ __ XX -:- Re: You are an idiot, i am convinced -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:22:05 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Joe -:- That's what I said, you idiot. -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:29:07 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ XX -:- Re: man o man -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:33:07 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- I give up.... -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:35:17 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Timmi -:- Re: I give up.... -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 17:51:52 (EDT)

boofhead -:- So what happened to EV FAQs? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 11:13:56 (EDT)

__ Joe -:- Those ridiculous FAQs are still there -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 12:44:00 (EDT)

__ __ JHB -:- The Press Kit is safe -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:51:20 (EDT)

__ __ __ Joe -:- You are an angel, John (nt) -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:08:39 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: You are an angel, John (nt) -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:24:59 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- I agree -he's a Latvian angel -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:24:19 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Not yet -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:28:15 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- What about that apple chutney? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:32:15 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: What about that apple chutney? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 17:11:52 (EDT)

salam -:- Bazza's latest dirty trick -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 07:09:10 (EDT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- Page updated, don't worry !! -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:16:17 (EDT)

__ __ JHB -:- Re: Page updated, don't worry !! -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:29:58 (EDT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Re: Page updated, don't worry !! -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:41:02 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ salam -:- Re: Page updated, don't worry !! -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 10:57:28 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Hey, it wasn't that easy! -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 11:00:25 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- hip hip, horay, hip hip horay -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 11:05:14 (EDT)

__ [Blank] -:- Re: Bazza's latest dirty trick -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 07:17:00 (EDT)

__ __ Abi -:- Re: Bazza's latest dirty trick -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:04:10 (EDT)

__ __ __ JHB -:- I've sent it to you -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:44:01 (EDT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- No problem with posts ! -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:18:05 (EDT)

boofhead -:- So what's you're beaf with the guru. -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 04:18:38 (EDT)

__ JHB -:- Re: So what's you're beaf with the guru. -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 04:59:49 (EDT)

Jim -:- Premies' minds -- take a look (from ELK) -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 23:59:36 (EDT)

__ SC -:- Mind is right. Pass the Jack Daniels over -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 03:43:31 (EDT)

Aussie -:- That Australian News Article -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 20:35:52 (EDT)

__ Susan -:- asking again if anyone can find this article -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 18:28:13 (EDT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- More Press Articles on Gagaraji -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 05:02:10 (EDT)

__ __ Francesca :C) -:- J-M, you da man! [nt] -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:03:23 (EDT)

__ Abi -:- Re: That Australian News Article -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 21:40:36 (EDT)

__ __ Zelda -:- there is a saying down under. -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 00:28:22 (EDT)

Channeling Roger Drek -:- Maharaji's Money -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 19:50:02 (EDT)

Timmi -:- LG -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 18:20:25 (EDT)

__ JHB -:- Re: LG -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 18:34:33 (EDT)

Joe -:- Maharaji behind CAC. -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:19:30 (EDT)

__ SC -:- What do premies think? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 03:10:17 (EDT)

__ __ Joe -:- Re: What do premies think? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:07:44 (EDT)

__ __ Francesca :C) -:- Aren't you anonymouse yourself? [nt] -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:06:18 (EDT)

__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Sc's not anonymous, Francesca -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:05:41 (EDT)

__ __ boofhead -:- Maybe -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 11:03:06 (EDT)

__ __ __ SC -:- That's true... -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 12:44:47 (EDT)

__ Abi -:- EV lawyer denies it -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 21:36:16 (EDT)

__ __ Joe -:- Re: EV lawyer denies it -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 12:50:14 (EDT)

__ __ __ Marianne -:- It's called plausible deniability -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:26:19 (EDT)

__ Chuck S. -:- A place to post responses to websites... -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 17:18:17 (EDT)

__ __ Chuck S. -:- Oops, here's the text to explain... -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 17:45:17 (EDT)

__ Barbara -:- A Question -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 14:26:09 (EDT)

__ __ Joe -:- Good Point -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 19:10:39 (EDT)

__ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: Good Point -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:17:05 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- That won't work, Vicki -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:00:38 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Re: Good Point -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 12:16:18 (EDT)

__ __ Pauline Premie -:- Jean Marie Bonthous?? -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 14:39:31 (EDT)

__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Pauline, are you a Pussy or a Kitty? -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 14:45:36 (EDT)

__ Pat:C) -:- Re: Maharaji behind CAC. -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:38:29 (EDT)

__ __ cq -:- er ... wouldn't that same reasoning -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 12:57:51 (EDT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Yes and no, Chris -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:04:55 (EDT)

__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Pope Pius X11 or whatever version -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:57:33 (EDT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- I don't think they realize anything -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:36:58 (EDT)

__ __ Joe -:- I think you may be right -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:48:09 (EDT)

__ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: I don't think they realize anything -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:41:07 (EDT)

__ __ __ Joe -:- Pat, slow down -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:51:27 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Re: Pat, slow down -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 14:32:17 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Kitties and Pussies in a -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 14:43:36 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Joe, I agree completely -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 14:26:18 (EDT)

__ Joe -:- Here's the background on CAC -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:28:03 (EDT)

__ __ salam -:- Re: Here's the background on CAC -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 21:19:46 (EDT)

__ __ bill -:- Care to chime in Mili-ficent? [nt] -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 18:56:13 (EDT)

__ __ Marianne -:- I haven't forgotten CAC -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 16:46:58 (EDT)

__ __ __ Deborah -:- That's what I want to hear -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 21:10:56 (EDT)

__ __ __ bill -:- Your beautiful when you talk tough:) [nt] -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 18:57:27 (EDT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Marianne, now you KNOW french -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 17:24:09 (EDT)

Boofhead -:- Cause a Global Effect -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 07:34:19 (EDT)

__ Vicki -:- Re: Cause a Global Effect -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 19:04:31 (EDT)

__ __ Pat:C) -:- It's not elementary, Vicki -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 02:54:58 (EDT)

__ __ __ Vicki -:- Thanks Pat -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:05:24 (EDT)

__ Pat:C) -:- Rev Rawat: ''My second stage of work.'' -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 16:57:06 (EDT)

__ magiclara -:- Re: Cause a Global Effect -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 10:33:59 (EDT)

__ __ Timmi -:- Re: Cause a Global Effect -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:18:52 (EDT)

__ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: Cause a Global Effect -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 15:55:47 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Timmi -:- Re: Cause a Global Effect -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 18:13:54 (EDT)

__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Cause of Global Warming -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:25:55 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Timmi -:- Re: Cause of Global Warming -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 17:41:33 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Vicki -:- yep Timmi -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 19:12:45 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Sheik Maharaji -:- Re: yep Timmi -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 20:44:44 (EDT)

Suchabanana -:- International Terrorist alert! -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 18:22:23 (EDT)

__ Deborah -:- Wanted DEAD or ALIVE? -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 21:15:14 (EDT)

__ Bin Candescent -:- Re: International Terrorist alert! -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 21:15:22 (EDT)

__ __ such -:- dat massa baiter?? -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 22:48:51 (EDT)

__ Timmi -:- Re: International Terrorist alert! -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 20:49:40 (EDT)

cq -:- now, why do I find this funny? -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 14:58:49 (EDT)

__ Deborah -:- Where does he come up with this shit =) -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 21:19:54 (EDT)

__ Gregg -:- The Men's Room -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 10:03:37 (EDT)

__ __ cq -:- Yeah - someone knows he's taking the piss! -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:03:54 (EDT)

__ Timmi -:- Re: now, why do I find this funny? -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 20:45:22 (EDT)

__ salsa -:- i couldn't read it -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 19:06:35 (EDT)

__ __ Deborah -:- You had to read it, to vomit :D -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 21:22:53 (EDT)

__ such -:- haha, more fun-dumb-mentalism -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 17:39:13 (EDT)

__ __ bill -:- the lord talks about the joy of laundry (?) -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 19:00:29 (EDT)

__ __ __ such -:- bet he does loads of laundry, right? -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 20:29:03 (EDT)

Joe -:- Anybody Receiving Knowledge??e??e?? -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 14:45:58 (EDT)

__ Mr. Observation -:- Re: Anybody Receiving Knowledge?? -:- Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:54:43 (EDT)

__ Usama -:- We need a jihad! -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 16:40:25 (EDT)

__ __ Osama -:- Re: We need a jihad! -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 17:07:46 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- Glad to announce we also have -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 13:22:23 (EDT)

__ Dermot -:- You thought the French -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 14:18:11 (EDT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Still think they are ! -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 16:09:12 (EDT)

__ __ __ Francophile -:- Is there a 'BIG-EATING FRENCHMAN' there? (nt) -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 19:21:56 (EDT)

__ __ __ Dermot -:- Re: Still think they are ! -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 16:25:08 (EDT)

__ Loaf -:- what exatly is a Troll ??? [nt] -:- Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 13:43:53 (EDT)

__ __ Loaf -:- I am serious ! is it a spam poster ? [nt] -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:34:56 (EDT)

__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- It's net slang for a person who -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:46:01 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Loaf -:- thanks Pat [nt] -:- Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 16:30:06 (EDT)

Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 19:41:06 (EDT) From: JHB Email: jhb@ex-premie.org To: All Subject: Forum Links on EPO Message:

After the recent (ongoing?) controversy about the Recent Exes forum, I have updated the forum and links pages on EPO. Let me know if you have any comments on the descriptions of the forums. Also, on the links page, some of the recent forums that have sprung up are not yet linked. If you think your forum deserves to be there (i.e. you think it will last a while and get used), please email me and I will add it to the links page. John. [ EPO Forum Page ]

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:57:36 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: All Subject: From LG: SC's theory about ''Pam'' Message:

Over on LG, SC said that he knew who the ''Pam'' was. I asked if it was a mutual acquaintance of ours. He answered that ''Pam'' was a ''tri-pam.'' I asked if a ''tri-pam'' was a PAM-wannabe. SC replied: ''No, a tri-pam is an unholy trinity of conspirers who've come together to creat a hybrid persona that is supposed to appear as one 'pam'. It's a tricky agenda, but they gave it their best shot. ''Remember, a post from one 'pam' is equal (in net worth) to ten posts from us normal run of the mill writers. So one can understand the need to create these spiritual frankensteins!'' Now I take this very seriously from SC/David Roupell as he is a writer and an expert on ''creating'' personas. His most famous opus was the unholy trinity of Cerise/Marolyn/Selena Crumpet. Thanks, David. You're a good sport. PS Speaking as the Troll Patrol: ''Pam'' and David both post from the same neck of the woods in Australia.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 18:19:31 (EDT) From: CW Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: Re: From LG: SC's theory about ''Pam'' Message:

He is right. Its aperson called Lesjohfaith.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:59:45 (EDT) From: How much do I need to contribute Email: None To: All Subject: to become a Visions sponsor? Message:

When the sponsorship program began, basic monthly levels of $50 and $75 were suggested to give some idea of what it would take to support the effort. But these figures were in no waymeant to set limits--on either end of the scale. Currently there are people sponsoring at all levels, from $10 per month to more than $500 per month. This support is meant to be an opportunity to participate, at whatever level is comfortable.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:04:17 (EDT) From: Can I change Email: None To: How much do I need to contribute Subject: my sponsorship amount? Message:

Monthly amounts can always be adjusted by a simple call to the toll-free sponsorship phone line. No one should hesitate to begin with whatever amount feels right. Every contribution counts! The sponsorship program needs and values all who wish to participate.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:13:13 (EDT) From: Don't my contributions to E.V. Email: None To: Can I change Subject: cover the broadcast and materials projects? Message:

Contributions to Elan Vital primarily fund the international tours and events, and the Knowledge conference centers; those to Visions fund the broadcast and material projects. Contributions to Visions are tax deductible and tallied with those you send to Elan Vital to produce a combined yearly tax receipt. But the accounts are kept distinct and separate, allowing you to express your personal preference for the projects you would like to support.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:18:34 (EDT) From: Why is my support still needed Email: None To: Don't my contributions to E.V. Subject: if access to broadcasts is now free? Message:

Free access to broadcasts was motivated by a desire to make Maharaji's message more available to a vast audience, NOT because of an overabundance of funds. This took a leap of faith! Viewing may be free but production and satellite broadcasting is incredibly expensive and funding is falling far short. Your support is needed more than ever to keep this effort going.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:21:51 (EDT) From: May I give to both Email: None To: Why is my support still needed Subject: the EV and Visions projects??? Message:

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I made this one up. The above 4 questions were part of a mailer I got today from Visions... all I can say is that Yorum the bag man will be coming to your community soon...

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:20:55 (EDT) From: Ex-Pam Email: None To: Why is my support still needed Subject: Can you supply facts? Message:

Do you have any information about how much money is raised this way, and how much is spent on the various things you talk about? For example, how much do the satellite broadcasts cost? How much money is taken in for them? How do you know that funding is 'falling short?' Are any figures ever made public?

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:27:56 (EDT) From: Yoram Weiss Email: None To: Ex-Pam Subject: Yes Message:

I will attempt to answer you very unsynchronized questions: Question: How much money is raised this way? Answer: Not enough, never enough, Maharaji needs lots more to do his very important work in bringing peace and happiness to the entire world, that he loves so much he is working his fingers to the bone trying to tell them about Knowledge and really giving it to them. [One moment please, while I wring my hands together and laugh..I mean, wipe a tear of gratitude from my eye.] Question: How much do satellite broadcasts cost? Answer: Lots and lots of money and Maharaji does not have enough to pay for them and so we need the ungrateful premies to give more. Maharaji told me this just the other day while we were flying on his private helicopter to the landing pad on his $7 million yacht. Question: How do we know funding is falling short? Answer: Because Maharaji doesn't have enough money, that's why. He never does, you know, that's why he has to live in a delapidated house in bad neighborhood in Malibu. It's criminal that ungrateful devotees treat the Master this way. Question: Are any figures ever made public? Answer: You have got to be kidding. As we used to say back in Israel, OY VEY!!!

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:10:18 (EDT) From: Pauline Premie Email: None To: Can I change Subject: Re: my sponsorship amount???? Message:

Thank you How Much, I know I have an automatic deduction from my credit card for a lot of money so I get to be a Visions sponsor. I'm sure much of the money goes towards keeping Wadi Sue and Daylata in the newest and best Mercedes Benz convertibles, which are absolute necessities in Southern California. In the slummy area of Malibu where they are forced to practically camp out in their delapidated house, having those nice cars is one of the few pleasures in their very hard lives, other than Knowledge and the frequent darshan, that is. And I, like Erika Andersen, know for certain that the money only goes to really good things, like DVDs, videos, publications and helping bring the 14 people who received knowledge this year in the USA to have THAT experience and THAT love, and have THAT participation opportunity to also get their credit cards involved. The reason that both I and Erika Andersen know for certain, is that we both have reviewed carefully the bar charts on the Elan Vital website. After seeing them, who could possibily have any concerns that money being sent for propagation, isn't going towards gold toilets for Maharaji and Donna Karran suits and the very best cognac for Valario Pascotto, Raja Ji and Gurucharanand? I know I don't. And from what I hear, even Tim Galway uses his credit card to help quell claims of child sexual molestation so it won't reflect negatively on Maharaji. I bet he has an automatic deduction made as well, and I bet it's lots more than $10. I'm sure he is a Visions sponsor.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:05:33 (EDT) From: Tim Gallstones Email: None To: Pauline Premie Subject: The Inner Game of Cult Scamming Message:

Thanks Pauline, with your permission I'll use this in my next book. If only I can find a publisher...for some reason each book I've written gets less and less buyers Banking on Phase II, Tim

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 18:01:40 (EDT) From: Your Book Editor Email: None To: Tim Gallstones Subject: Re: The Inner Game of Cult Scamming Message:

Yes, I thought 'The Inner Game of Cleaning the Septic Tank' would do much better than it did.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:16:35 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: All Subject: What if Dettmers had joined RE? Message:

Following up on my conversation with Mike Finch yesterday, I've been thinking further on the pros and cons of a private, alternative forum where people don't hvae to worry about premie invasions, confrontation from other exes or publication, even description, elsewhere, of their conversations. It was interesting reading Dermot's posts. See, I never knew Mike Finch. Apparently, he was a fairly high profile PAM in England. I do recall the hubub to that effect when he first posted. So it was interesting watching Dermot's sensitive and careful appeal to Mike to post a bit more out here, in the open, as it were, so that he, Dermot, and all the rest of us, exes, premies and lurkers of any kind, could benefit from his experiences and reflections. It got me thinking. What if Dettmers had somehow gotten into posting on RE? Can you imagine? First, it's not hard to imagine him taking that turn. He's a guy who well might have wanted to keep a decidedly low profile even while finding a few other exes to share and debrief with. Surely, if he didn't feel that way before he started posting he might have done so after. Remember how hard a time he got from so many here? Civilly and otherwise, many possters, exs and premies, challenged him in all sorts of ways. Exes pressured him on his confidentiality agreement and cashout deal. And that was just for starters. As a group, we wanted to know everything. Many times we were less than patient or polite in asking. And premies? Well, they gave him an even harder time. He was subjected to many crass (albeit transparent) character assassination efforts. What some of us got a taste of in the CAC portrait studio, Dettmers got full blown on the forum. Fortunately though, for him and us, Mike stayed. He weathered all those challenges and, as we saw with our own eyes, underwent some profound and honest growth and understanding as a result. It was only after extensive dialogue and communication with many of the people here that Mike was able to finally come to terms with his real feelings about Maharaji the man and the deep disappointment he engenders in those who trusted him. Anyway, because Mike did do this all in the open many, many people have benefitted immeasurably. Could the same ever be said if Mike said a fast 'hi' here, tested the waters, found them a bit choppy and then headed for safe harbour in RE rarely to be seen again? Somehow, I doubt it. Somehow, I think that if he found a cozy crew to bounce things around with outside of public glare and scrutiny, he might never have been so candid, at times raw even (raw for Dettmers, I mean :) ), if this wasn't the only place he could really interact with his former fellow cult members. Thank God for him and thank god for the many people his posts meant so much to. The same can be said for any important witness to our common history. What if Anth, Maharaji's kids' former tutor, had decided he preferred the less combative tones of RE? Or donner, a super important PAM (in his time, that is :) ). Donner's kind of a spiritual guy and he's taken a bit of flak for some of how he's talked about that stuff from ... from ... well, from me I guess. And others (surely there are others!?). But, thankfully, donner's hung in there and has contributed priceless testimony to this living history, such as it is. Now, let me be clear, I am NOT suggesting that RE people not post there. I AM suggesting that they never forget the value that public dialogue can have, for themselves as well as others. RE isn't that. This is.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 16:17:51 (EDT) From: PatD Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: What if Dettmers had joined RE? Message:

Out in the open is the only way to go , at least for people who can fill in the blanks . The rest of this is to Mike Finch , I haven't looked in here for the past week although I've skimmed throug the relevant thread. Hi Mike , I shared a taxi with you on the way to the London Latvian night dinner & sat opposite you . That was a very peculiar event wasn't it ? A bunch of people who'd never met each other(mostly) before , getting together to talk about someone we didn't believe in ( to various degrees) anymore . The thing about the internet , whether for good or ill , is that there are few social nicieties & no distractions from addressing a specific conversation , should one wish to . It's down to the nitty gritty. The thing I particularly wanted to know about then but never got round to asking & still do , is this : is it true that you were one of the people who brought Maha to the West & helped set him up in the style to which he has become accustomed ? I ask from curiosity , not loathing , in my own small way I helped him become what he now is too . Can't write at greater length , dinner's ready. All the best : Pat Dorrity

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 17:12:13 (EDT) From: Tim G Email: timgitti@indigo.ie To: PatD Subject: Re: What if Dettmers had joined RE? Message:

Hi Pat I remember that evening with bemusement too. And yourself stepping forward and saying 'Hi, I'm Binliner'. This coming from a distinguished looking fellow of middle years. Can't remember everyone there but do remember slowly being relaxed in a crowd of total strangers. I believe a version of Arti was sung at some ungodly hour and under the influence of Bekorovka for those that drank alcohol. It was completely surreal for me as I cannot drink but managed a mild contact high. Yep, I think this forum is wothwhile despite it's 'flaming' and battles.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:41:30 (EDT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: Recent Exes Forum Message:

I felt shocked and ashamed to be refused admission to the recent exes forum. I have been traumatized by my years in the cult and I thought it might provide one more arena to discuss the issues involved. I don't believe it is properly advertized with its prominent space on the ex-premie.org forums page. It implies that this forum is unsafe, which I don't like. I'm sorry I didn't respond directly but I felt I needed help in this matter. Steve

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:47:19 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: You obviously were'nt sincere enough, Steve Message:

Steve, What do you think of comments some like Katie and other RE members have made that you could and should have somehow pleaded with the FA for admission after they said no?

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:52:41 (EDT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: Re: You obviously were'nt sincere enough, Steve Message:

I'm going through a very rough time right now. I didn't feel like arguing - what can you say to a club that tells you it doesn't take very disturbed people? It's traumatic enough to exit the cult, but then to have exes tell you you're more disturbed than the majority - another trauma, I'm afraid. Steve

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:31:40 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: Hey Steve Message:

Hi Mate Don't even entertain the thought that you're seperate from the majority or whatever....just try and forget about REx ....in real terms it's their loss that you're not suitable for entry. Your story, your life as an ex-cult member is as valuable as ANY PAM or anyone else.For instance, the PAM stuff is useful for a different angled viewpoint or little insights into Rawats personality but tha's IT. Your thoughsa and feelings have always been intersting to me as any PAMS, though in a different way. So, I repeat, try not to beat yourself up over the Rex escapade...you've got people here on this public forum who hear you. Cheers Dermot

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:34:48 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Ditto, Steve and Dermot Message:

I grovelled once to get K and join an exclusive club er cult. Never again. I enjoy your posts too, Steve, and am glad that you have to put them here.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 12:39:41 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: All Subject: What are the Cult Honchos Paid?? Message:

Does anyone know how many full-time, paid, staff members there are at Elan Vital, Visions and the related cult organizations? For that matter, how many paid staff are there on Maharaji's personal staff and what are they paid, if anything? The recent PAM mentioned somebody named Kay McKinnon as the 'Pacific Contact' for Elan Vital, situated in Australia. The PAM said that she was paid over $50,000, which I assume is Australian dollars and if so, that's about $25,000 US and that's a pretty shitty salary, and I'm sure she could get much better elsewhere. [Legal secretaries in SF make twice that.] I know that everything about finances are secrets in the cult, both how much they get and how they spend it, but anyone know anything about this?

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 16:17:45 (EDT) From: Lesley Email: None To: Joe Subject: Kaye McKinnon's salary Message:

I don't know much, Joe, but here in Australia, I think that in ev there are very few paid staff, mainly the odd pittance for those who actually do the administrative work, plus what used to be a more extensive wage list at amaroo, again paid minimally at the lower levels, and not much better at managerial levels, but of course there is a bonus in self esteem, it is proof positive that what you are doing is valued by the big cheese. However, some years ago, when I heard what Kaye McKinnon was getting (at the time, a time when our dollar was almost on parity with the US dollar, $45,000), I was shocked, it seemed a lot, and then, she felt that she needed to attend international events of course, and as a representative of the Lord, needed to maintain a certain level of style in travel and appearance, I would strongly suggest that there were perks apart from the base salary. Of course, if she had taken her drive and ambition and gone to bat for herself in the corporate world she would have done a lot better for herself, and I would strongly suggest that she has paid dearly on a personal level, Mr Rawat is not an easy boss! My concern with Kaye McKinnon is not her salary, or her personality, here I must diverge from most oz premies, and say that on the odd occasions we have met, I liked her; my concern is with the 'lying by omission'. One example: she must have known the real reason for Padarthanand leaving Australia. Padarthanand has occupied a special place in the hearts of oz premies, we did not have lots of mahatmas travelling through giving K, we had one, and he lived here, he had a big shiny smile, we loved him. I did not know the reason he left, I thought he had been recalled to America by Maharaji, who wanted him by his side, that is how it was represented. How dare she not disclose the real reason he left: for starters, doesn't the wellbeing of the women he hurt matter more than his reputation? and then there is the strong possibility of reoffending with new women, doesn't that matter? what about honesty? I know it is not fair to single out Kaye, she operates as part of a group, she was not the only one who knew, and like us all was subject to the confusion that is attendant on buying into RawatWorld, but I guess that is one of the perks that comes with the salary, after all wasn't she supposed to keep us informed?

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 16:45:15 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: Lesley Subject: Thanks, Lesley Message:

Thanks Lesley, that's very interesting. Is Padarthanand the initiator that the PAM was talking about who had to leave Australia because of sexual improprieties with female premies? I know since I have been involved with EPO three women said they were sexually assaulted by Padarthand. I think two were in Australia, and one was in the USA. I know what you mean about the sins of omission. I know when I was a mid-level bureaucrat in Elan Vital, I was always very afraid of saying the wrong thing to the wrong person, and then that 'secret' getting back to Maharaji and the honchos and I would get in serious trouble, not only in the organization, but with the living Perfect Master. And if that happens, who can you go to, right? But even then, I recall telling people I was close to, who I believed wouldn't tell anyone else, certain cult secrets I had knowledge of due to my position. Of course, since I was never x-rated, I never knew about Maharaji's drinking, drug-taking and sexual abuse of premie women. And there were always the perks. I remember the higher ups, who were supposed to be ashram premies, dressing in designer suits, going out to dinner, and having their own cars. This while the community premies were by and large very poor, often with small children to support. I don't think I ever met Kaye, and I'm sure she is a nice person, probably like most of those who are involved (although I also know there were and still are some real tyrannical jerks), but she was probably put in a very awkward position, being told by those above her that revealing Padarthanand's sexual transgressions was not allowed. So, I'm sure she complied.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:07:20 (EDT) From: XX Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: What are the Cult Honchos Paid? Message:

Does anyone know how many full-time, paid, staff members there are at Elan Vital, Visions and the related cult organizations? For that matter, how many paid staff are there on Maharaji's personal staff and what are they paid, if anything? The recent PAM mentioned somebody named Kay McKinnon as the 'Pacific Contact' for Elan Vital, situated in Australia. The PAM said that she was paid over $50,000, which I assume is Australian dollars and if so, that's about $25,000 US and that's a pretty shitty salary, and I'm sure she could get much better elsewhere. [Legal secretaries in SF make twice that.] I know that everything about finances are secrets in the cult, both how much they get and how they spend it, but anyone know anything about this? --- Joe, people who are paid an Australian salary usually live in Australia and have australian expenses... With your twisted logic, every european or canadian would be considered being ripped off, 'cause of the currency exchange...(and i thought that you were smart...)

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 18:32:18 (EDT) From: CW Email: None To: XX Subject: Re: What are the Cult Honchos Paid? Message:

A low level Sale Representative gets $45K+ and a car in Oz .This a joke right? Only the lotus eaters of Northern NSW could see that as 'highly paid'!It is highly paid when they compare it to their miserable self imposed (by natue of their locational exile) Benifit payments

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:10:51 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: XX Subject: You are dense, I think Message:

A $25,000 salary in the USA, ($50,000 in Australia, you ninny), is a shitty salary in my opinion. It's logical to assume that a $50,000 salary in Australia, would go about as far as $25,000 would in the USA. Duh! And I stand by my statement, that Kay McKinnon could probably do better. But regardless of the salary amount, I'm trying to find out how many people actually ARE paid by the cult in one position or another. Got anything to say about that?

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:22:05 (EDT) From: XX Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: You are an idiot, i am convinced Message:

A $25,000 salary in the USA, ($50,000 in Australia, you ninny), is a shitty salary in my opinion. It's logical to assume that a $50,000 salary in Australia, would go about as far as $25,000 would in the USA. Duh! And I stand by my statement, that Kay McKinnon could probably do better. But regardless of the salary amount, I'm trying to find out how many people actually ARE paid by the cult in one position or another. Got anything to say about that? --- Maybe you should speak to a finance counsellor. A $50,000 salary in Australia is worth a $50,000 salary in the USA, as long as it is spent in Australia. I can't believe that you don't understand this...

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:29:07 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: XX Subject: That's what I said, you idiot. Message:

Right, and a $50,000 Australian salary is worth $25,000 if you live in the USA. That's exactly what I'm saying. Unless you think that Americans will fly constantly to Australia to make purchases to make their dollars go farther. Sheesh!

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:33:07 (EDT) From: XX Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: man o man Message:

Right, and a $50,000 Australian salary is worth $25,000 if you live in the USA. That's exactly what I'm saying. Unless you think that Americans will fly constantly to Australia to make purchases to make their dollars go farther. Sheesh! --- KAY IS AN AUSTRALIAN, you moron! SHE LIVES IN AUSTRALIA, NOT IN THE US of A Who gives a f**k what her salary is worth in this great country of yours...she is not going to go shopping there either!

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:35:17 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: XX Subject: I give up.... Message:

I know she lives in Australia. I was just saying that her $50,000 salary is equivalent to someone making $25,000 in the USA. I'm afraid I can't explain it any other way. Like I said, I give up.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 17:51:52 (EDT) From: Timmi Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: I give up.... Message:

You tried, Joe. I don't know how you could have made it any clearer. Maybe ''clarity''?

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 11:13:56 (EDT) From: boofhead Email: None To: All Subject: So what happened to EV FAQs? Message:

Looks like it's being re-viewed. Any clues as to what they will say next [assuming that they will say something]. Must say they've been active lately. 2 releases in 3 years!? Give me an 'Ah'. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh [ EV FAQs ]

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 12:44:00 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: boofhead Subject: Those ridiculous FAQs are still there Message:

It's the Press Kit that isn't there anymore. I assume there is some embarrassment about the Press Releases, especially the Press Release that ruthlessly attacked Abi and Susan's motives for trying to get Jagdeo stopped from molesting little girls. Maybe the embarrassment has sunk in and they removed it, but we shall she what gets put there in its place. The Press Release about CAC was equally off the wall, but the one about Jagdeo was outrageous.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:51:20 (EDT) From: JHB Email: None To: Joe Subject: The Press Kit is safe Message:

As they were press releases, there will be no problem in republishing them on EPO when I get me 'Elan Vital and Public Relations' EPO section written. John.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:08:39 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: JHB Subject: You are an angel, John (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:24:59 (EDT) From: JHB Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: You are an angel, John (nt) Message:

And you're a sweety. What is this, a lovefest?:-)

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:24:19 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Joe Subject: I agree -he's a Latvian angel Message:

How are you, John? How's things in Latvia? Any snow yet? Love, Marianne

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:28:15 (EDT) From: JHB Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Not yet Message:

We've had a few nights of frost, but it's still 10C+ during the day. Things are good. I'm looking to the future and the possibility of having to get a job unless other ways of earning money don't manifest themselves:-) John.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:32:15 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: JHB Subject: What about that apple chutney? Message:

I imagined by now that you would be selling apple chutney in the local market place.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 17:11:52 (EDT) From: JHB Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: Re: What about that apple chutney? Message:

Everyone here, and I mean everyone, has apples coming out of their ears. We've made about 80 litres of wine, and about 40 litres of juice, but although I'm grateful for your advice, I didn't get around to making any chutney. John.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 07:09:10 (EDT) From: salam Email: None To: All Subject: Bazza's latest dirty trick Message:

This is part of an email that I sent to JHB regarding what I can only presume another on of these dirty tricks that Bazza/CAC have been playing with exes. John, I hope you're doing fine. I was looking at the video clips that you have on this page http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/videoevent.htm recently. I have noticed that the clips have been removed, however page error 404 has been customise in two ways: 1- first there is a dangourous javascript that initiates itself when you right click on the page. The script will attempt to reboot your system if you try to close it. this is a childlish trick but still effective for people that do not know what is happening. This can be avoided it you press [ctrl-alt-delete] and close the browser from the task manager.[p.s. I haven't tried to close the script from the browser window] 2- This is of a copy of the error message that appears on page 404: This page is blasphemous and cannot be displayed. The page you are looking for is evil and is currently unavailable. The Web site might be experiencing spiritual difficulties, you may need to adjust your attitude settings or it might be an illusion. As you can see, this massage has been specificaly designed and targeted to users of EPO. My suggestion is for you to remove the above page completly and to delete the link to this page from the SITE MAP page http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/sitemap.htm this will save people a lot of troubles, Regards Salam

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:16:17 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: salam Subject: Page updated, don't worry !! Message:

I've just updated the broken links on EPO's pages. But I didn't detect anything malicious on Bazza's side ... no virus, no applet nothing. Don't be so paranoid !

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:29:58 (EDT) From: JHB Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Re: Page updated, don't worry !! Message:

J-M, I've also just this minute updated the Site Map page and deleted videoevent.htm. We are getting far too synchronised for our own good:-) John.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:41:02 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JHB Subject: Re: Page updated, don't worry !! Message:

OK, don't touch this page anymore, I'll check it .... and email you the update.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 10:57:28 (EDT) From: salam Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Re: Page updated, don't worry !! Message:

god, I can't believe u 2. how difficult is it to remove a page. OK ok, so you disabled the links, now I feel better.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 11:00:25 (EDT) From: JHB Email: None To: salam Subject: Hey, it wasn't that easy! Message:

Removing the page was a key click. Editing the Site Map was several key clicks. But both of us doing it at exactly the same time, now that takes skill and class:-) John.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 11:05:14 (EDT) From: salam Email: None To: JHB Subject: hip hip, horay, hip hip horay Message:

well done lads. I let you know if if find anything in the future.())

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 07:17:00 (EDT) From: [Blank] Email: None To: salam Subject: Re: Bazza's latest dirty trick Message:

OK, I took precautions by closing all programs and clicked on the alert message box, the computer did not re-boot. I would say this is classified as cyber-terrorisim and should be reported.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:04:10 (EDT) From: Abi Email: None To: [Blank] Subject: Re: Bazza's latest dirty trick Message:

Everytime I try to open the text by the Pam 'my memoirs' my computer shuts down. Is this happening to anyone else? I wanted to send a copy to my father.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:44:01 (EDT) From: JHB Email: None To: Abi Subject: I've sent it to you Message:

Abi, I think J-M is probably right that your problem is related to your PC, but anyway, I've emailed the post to you. John.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:18:05 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Abi Subject: No problem with posts ! Message:

Maybe you should check your PC's memory. Or is this an anthrax attack?

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 04:18:38 (EDT) From: boofhead Email: None To: All Subject: So what's you're beaf with the guru. Message:

Do you have a personal grudge with M? If you do what is it?

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 04:59:49 (EDT) From: JHB Email: None To: boofhead Subject: Re: So what's you're beaf with the guru. Message:

Read the 14 objections on EPO. Whether it's correct to describe them as 'grudges' is arguable, but someone with his power over people needs to be accountable, and EPO and the forums are just gentle reminders to him to account for his words and actions. John.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 23:59:36 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: All Subject: Premies' minds -- take a look (from ELK) Message:

Ways to Practice Dear ones I've been trying to get a letter off. The happenings in the world, the last month or so,have broken my heart also. To practice this Knowledge, one must be clear on how to do everything. You have got to recognize that clear experience in your life. As Maharaji has said,'We come with a tremendous amount of clarity.' How ironic that Maharaji takes a word like 'clarity' and makes it anything but. And how classic that that irony would be lost on the poor fools who then parrot his jargon. It is easy enough to take a walk for an hour or so just to relax and take in the scenery. few realize or want to take an hour to go inside and learn to relax. Remember that sitting for an hour does not mean that one has been practicing for an hour. When I sit and practice, I get in about five minutes of that clear experience, because my mind is so active. Maharaji asks for only an hour a day and I am determined to get in an hour at least every day. I try to set aside as many things as possible to become reminders that help remind me to practice being clear and listening and feeling. As you lookout at the sunshine or feel the wind blowing, let these become reminders to practice. Sounds pretty weird to me! Not to mention impossible after, say, a couple of hours. Whenever I catch myself singing a song, or humming a tune, I let these become reminders. Remember that the more you listen to a song or watch a movie, the more imprinted these become, and the more these things tend to pop up in our heads as thoughts or distractions that grab our attention away from being clear and feeling joy. What was it that the Taliban says about popular entertainment again? I forget. This is a personal thing I try to do, and that is to stay away from songs with words. Words tend to make me think more quickly. Instrumentals seem to be better. Remember though that music can be imprinted also. Sounds like it'd be a lot of fun hanging with Daryl some night. Can you imagine? 'Easy, on the music there, Jim, I think I'm imprinting ... In my life, I have made a commitment that whenever I remember, I practice. When I catch myself humming, I run to that experience. When all else fails to settle down my thoughts, I run to nature. Birds and trees and woods and lakes and all. Trees and butterflies have no tendency to grab my attention away from Knowledge. Freak! As I once wrote in an expression, let the happenings of nature become 'little reminders' to feel that joy in the heart. Why not just put Post-It's everywhere? Well, guess what any of you who missed the early seventies, we did! Every room, every wall, every lapel, every everything was plastered with pictures of the guru staring at you and reminders to 'Remember the Holy Name'. Now, of course, M supposedly doesn't want people even trying to meditate constantly. So what's with Daryl? Love Darryl PS, My wife Kathy and i are celebrating our 25 wedding anniversity on oct 23. Daryl Wilson Water Valley, MS, USA Hope you have a good one, bud. ************************************************* Stojan Svet Thinking the poetry of the heart From Postojna, Slovenia If I have to think, why wouldn't I think about my master's gift? If I have to think of something why wouldn't I think of the poetry of my grateful heart What a nuisance that mind is, eh Stovan? Yeah, I know. Well, seeing as you can't get rid of it like something stuck to your shoe, you might as well redirect every last thought and sentiment at your cult leader, huh? What's that? You're not IN a cult? Ha hahahahha! ************************************************* Stojan Svet Only From Postojna, Slovenia Nice one with that Chris Dickey-style title, dude. You guys know each other? That which is always unsatisfied in me can not be appeased with any answer from this world. Only re-awakening of this heartfelt feeling does this job. How? Only by getting answers from my dearest master. Slovan, I have to be honest with you. You sound like a slobbering lap dog. ************************************************* Janice Wilson Sanity - 1 From Baldwinsville, New York In this world the sane, the brave, are free to be anchored in the heart with one's heart to know kindness, love, truth the place, the ruler of justice within within each human being to be felt pure, clear, heartfelt, sanity Sanity, Janice? Sorry, hon, I don't really think so.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 03:43:31 (EDT) From: SC Email: None To: Jim Subject: Mind is right. Pass the Jack Daniels over Message:

Ok, now that I've stopped laughing at Jimbo's comments, there's something I found on the Jason Becker tribute site that moved me the same way nature gives Daryl a friendly reminder to get real. ahem... On the forum I hang out on they were arguing about learning music from books or just winging it... Alan: to another poster... 'I've found that many of the greatest players only play an instrument in order to write songs (or to let loose the melodies that pop up in their head - and won't leave). Many people don't give a shit about theory and technique, yet come up with the most amazing melodies. How can you critisize a guy and say 'he sucks' just because he might not feel the need to get a formal music education? Why do you care, if someone isn't a master copy-cat, and uses his own feelings to express his music rather than shawn lane's?' I, being an unlearned, untrained non theorist, found their conversation interesting and inspiring. Who needs nature when you've got a Strat, a Quadraverb and 100 watts?

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 20:35:52 (EDT) From: Aussie Email: None To: All Subject: That Australian News Article Message:

Following is a transcript of that Australian newspaper article, which, along with the cow pie in the wrong place, made Maharaji depressed for months at the end of 1997, according to a former PAM. Sept. 20, 1997 Brisbane Courier-Mail Newspaper By Rory Callinan Cult Leader Jets In to Recruit New Believers Millionaire cult leader Maharaj Ji is holding a secret session west of Brisbane this weekend. Rory Callinan reports. MILLIONAIRE cult leader Maharaj Ji, (known to his followers as the 'Exploding Peace Bomb' and the 'Lord of the Universe'), has returned to Australia to recruit new followers. The guru is holding a secret brainstorming session on a former cattle property in remote bushland 60 km west of Brisbane all weekend. Thousands of followers have set up a tent city on the property at the base of Ivory Rock, (a monolithic egg-shaped mountain), for the four-day session, which ends on Sunday. Maharaj Ji, (or Maharaji, as he is now known), is due to appear at a 4000 seat open-air auditorium at the meeting to enlighten devotees in the 'getting of Knowledge'. In the early 1970's the guru became an international household name as the teen leader of the Divine Light Mission cult. When the cult was at its height, many of the followers or 'premies' lived in DLM houses or Ashrams and paid their entire salaries to the cult. One former DLM member, Stephen Faulds, this week told the Courier-Mail that cult members would take out home loans and then all the occupants would pay off the mortgage. Former DLM president Robert Mishler, who has since left the cult, said that in the early 1970's DLM took more than $5 million from missions around the world. The guru's latest gathering appears to be another money-spinner but under a different guise. Organizers expect up to 4000 'students' to attend the 'Elan Vital 1997 Conference' and a spokeswoman for Elan Vital claimed the guru was no longer associated with DLM. 'That is all in the past now,' said Ros Sutton, who claimed to have found 'Knowledge' with the guru 25 years ago. Ms. Sutton said Maharaji had 'completely disassociated himself' from DLM. 'He (Maharaji) was very young at that time. It was when he was 13. He was promoted as being involved with the organization (DLM),' she said. 'But since then, because of the strong Indian connotations, he has completely disassociated himself from that organization. What he teaches is not religion.' Australian Securities Commission records show the registered company Divine Light Mission Inc. changed its name to Elan Vital in the late 1980's. In 1992, Elan Vital registered the name Ivory Rock Convention Centre, where the meeting is being held, and is currently marketing it as a conference venue. Security officers at the front gate this week were stopping cars, and followers manned checkpoints on roads inside the property. Ms. Sutton declined to say the source of Maharaji's income. 'That is private,' she said, as was Maharaji's location and time of arrival, according to Ms. Sutton. But according to Hawker Pacific's Brisbane office, which services corporate jets, the guru jetted into Australia on the weekend in his Gulf Stream jet, valued at between $20 to $30 million. A Hawker Pacific employee said Maharaji arrived under the name of Captain Rowatt and his family flew in on a commercial flight. The luxury twin-engine jet is just part of the incredible life of luxury of the cult leader. Locals living around the conference centre were baffled at the activity. Vegetable farmer Lucien Stelet said: 'They don't do any harm but there's been a few rumors about what they're doing. One theory was that they were digging tunnels.' In 1974 the 16 year old Maharaji caused a split in the cult when he married a 24 year old air hostess. The marriage sparked a massive internecine feud, with Maharaji's mother trying to sack him as leader. But his worldwide status enabled him to remain a dominant force. During his reign, he was hailed by his followers as a living god and acquired the title of the 'Exploding Peace Bomb'. In one bizarre festival, he sprayed swooning devotees with pink colored water from a giant water pistol. It is believed he now lives in a Malibu mansion with his wife and children. The cult boasts a website titled 'Premie' and lists a series of worldwide events where devotees can catch up with Maharaji as well as messages of love from followers to their revered guru. But on an 'ex-premie' web page, The Courier-Mail found numerous allegations that the cult had shattered people's lives.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 18:28:13 (EDT) From: Susan Email: None To: Aussie Subject: asking again if anyone can find this article Message:

It was 1978/79 Miami Herald interview with Mishler. It had A LOT of info in it. Their online archives do not go back far enough to find it.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 05:02:10 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Aussie Subject: More Press Articles on Gagaraji Message:

on EPO ..... [ Press Articles ]

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:03:23 (EDT) From: Francesca :C) Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: J-M, you da man! [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 21:40:36 (EDT) From: Abi Email: None To: Aussie Subject: Re: That Australian News Article Message:

Thanks Aussie. I know of an award winning journalist who has recently become an ex. The next time Rawat lines up people to kiss his feet at Amaroo I will make sure that the papers run something larger. The Courier Mail were interested in running a story this last time but the person who was going to give it to them was 'managed'. That wont happen again because they can't shut me up anymore.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 00:28:22 (EDT) From: Zelda Email: None To: Abi Subject: there is a saying down under. Message:

when somebody mentions an idea that is a bit of a stretch 'Yeah right' for example there was a billboard for beer and it says 'I'll be home right after the game.' 'yeah right' the squillionaire guru gets that alot

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 19:50:02 (EDT) From: Channeling Roger Drek Email: None To: All Subject: Maharaji's Money Message:

When Maharaji first arrived in the West he had virtually no money and stayed at hippie crash pads and traveled in rented limos and funky cars, and had to endure flying first class on commercial airliners, cowering in the toilet at the rear of the plane. And today he flies his own Gulfstream IV, a 25+ million dollar (U.S.) luxury corporate aircraft, the same brand that Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates and Apple Computer Interim Chairman Steve Jobs flies. Maharaji has huge luxury homes, most likely on every continent with the exception of Antarctica. It is believed that Maharaji has a luxury yacht. Maharaji wears only the finest clothing purchased on Rodeo Drive and other fashion centers throughout the world. How many Divine Sales hand-me-downs did you wear when you lived in Maharaji's ashram where you lived with no health coverage and if you had a serious medical problem they'd simply kick you out. Just by selling off part of his wristwatch collection he could easily buy you a luxury home on Maui and provide you cash to live on for the rest of your life. And you know what? He wants more! How much of what he has have you helped him acquire? How well are you living? Hey, I just ask the questions.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 18:20:25 (EDT) From: Timmi Email: None To: All Subject: LG Message:

Just been over to visit Life's Great. Paranoia is alive and well there. What is that count on each posting? Does the site really log and count each visit from one's computer? That seems a bit strange. Who is ''WH'' that responded to one of my posts, anybody know? Never heard of him or from him, but he seems to know a bit about me. Was curious about it. Must post under a different name here. Whatever. It's a boring site, with nothing interesting happening. What is it for, anyway?

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 18:34:33 (EDT) From: JHB Email: None To: Timmi Subject: Re: LG Message:

LG died when CD deleted several threads where Bjorn, Hamzen, and myself discussed some of the real issues related to Maharaji and Knowledge. All three of us had spent time writing the posts on those threads, there was no flaming, just discussion, and yet the threads were just wiped out. I have no intention of posting anything more than one-liners there again. Chris Dickey, the manager there, has this absurd idea that the value in life excludes all serious examination of any aspect of life. I seriously doubt if there will ever be another interesting discussion over there. John.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:19:30 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: All Subject: Maharaji behind CAC. Message:

As many of you know, premies set up a website some weeks ago to attack former members of the Maharaji cult for speaking out on the Internet. It was called 'Citizens Against Cyperstalking.' Anyone who saw it knows how foul and illegal it was. It was a dirty, slimy thing that many of us thought premies were not capable of degenerating to. But we were wrong. Of course, the perpetrators were too cowardly to reveal their identities, unlike the ex-premies, who post using their own names. Indeed, ex-premies post on this Forum, where anyone is allowed to post and disagree or correct anything that is said. That's one of the powerful things about the Forum and the EPO website. [Note how that kind of interaction is not allowed on any of the cult websites, including the current 'reasonable' website called 'Please Consider This' run by Mitch Ditkoff and the Andersens. One thing they do NOT consider, is anything they disagree with, and that's unfortunate, but nevertheless a pattern when it comes to the Maharaji cult.] [BTW, the two posts in which I deconstructed a couple of the 'Articles' on that website, I submitted to them via their website, and I got emails back saying they wouldn't print them because they disagree with them. So, the pattern continues.] The PAM (Person Around Maharaji) who posted below, made the following comments regarding CAC, seeing it as just a continuing pattern reflecting how upset Maharaji is about EPO and what Ex-Premies are saying: I'd guess that the disgraceful CAC site was M-approved, simply because every major venture of premies without exception is M-approved. (Not a penny drops...) A PR friend told me that the American premie writer Scott Ritter (he's currently hanging out down under I think) was deputized by the international team, earlier this year, to help come up with an online antidote to EPO that used 'radical new thinking'. Scott, I gather, was stymied by this. How could you shoot down so many well-attested facts? I woud surmise that CAC was born out of this frustration. Personally I think Scott is too nice to have created CAC, but the fact that he was put on the case this year suggests that an offical concern about EPO had reached sufficient heights for radical action to be taken - by someone. And taken it was. One reason CAC was pulled, I would guess, was that it was causing so much disgust even among the senior EV managers. Giving away exes' family's addresses, and tarring exes as pedophiles, is about as low as it gets: even the brainwashed have standards. The big-eating Frenchman would have kept this operation under the tightest of wraps, were it an officially sanctioned one. Even most of the PR team probably wouldn't have been told it was sanctioned by M - let alone anyone else. All the above re CAC is speculation - though not unreasonable speculation. It certainly fits with EV's pro-active pattern on the Internet since EPO began, of countering it. First came the large technical task of 'influencing' search engines so that search words like 'Maharaji' and 'Elan Vital' brought up the official sites first and the anti ones last. That job was done by an Australian techie in the late 1990s, and took him many months. Then Enjoying Life. Then Life's Great - which reversed the original policy of censoring premies. CAC kind of fits with a developing pattern. Like the Jagdeo child sexual molestation situation, which this PAM says Maharaji knew about for about 20 years and is currently lying about, he or she speculates that Maharaji knew about CAC and actually gave some kind of agya to go after the ex-premies on the Internet. I recall Scott Ritter, and I agree he is too nice of a guy to do something that despicable. At least I hope that's still true. But what kind of moral dilemma were the premies who put together CAC put in by knowing Maharaji, their lord, wanted them to "do something radical on the Internet?" At first, I thought Maharaji couldn't possibly be that stupid to approve of something so damaging to his image, and that of his followers. But now I wonder. The image I am getting about Maharaji is that he gets pissed off very easily when he is criticized and then can do some pretty irrational and destructive things. This would be in line with someone who has been worshipped as the living God since he was 8 and fawned over in the West, surrounded by sychophants ever since. He isn't used to being talked about in a negative fashion, especially by people who actually use facts, quotes, and personal observations to support what they are saying. Also, it appears the organization is falling apart, so maybe in desperate times, desperate things happen. I have no doubt that Maharaji can be a really nice guy, and maybe fun to be around at times. At least that's what I hear. It appears that these "nice" encounters with him form the basis for many people staying in a cult, and part of a cult organization they otherwise very much disagree with. So, I am now thinking that Maharaji personally probably was behind the CAC site, probably not with any of the details, but in connection with the 'thrust' and the idea of the 'radical new thinking' to counteract EPO, as PAM mentions. And given agya, certain of his more fanatical followers, probably the ones who would have the most to lose if he closes up shop, carried out CAC, and only took it down when it was clear it backfired. All in all, it's telling that Maharaji has never made a public statement about it, nor has he publicly addressed the Jagdeo situation, which is in itself shameful. What do you guys think? What do premies think? And what would aspirants, or anyone thinking about getting involved with Maharaji think? CAC, just like Jagdeo, must be PR disasters for Maharaji. Do you think he realizes that? I also challenge the Andersens and Mitch Ditkoff to address this on their website, which doesn't even mention the incident, nor the Jagdeo situation. Hey guys, these are the big elephants sitting in the corner, and in the meantime, their website is talking about how Maharaji has lots of money, but it's okay. Those things are pretty irrelevent when these two big issues are glaring everyone right in the face.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 03:10:17 (EDT) From: SC Email: None To: Joe Subject: What do premies think? Message:

Well personally Joe, I think that it's not a good idea to base an otherwise well presented article, on the 'facts' presented by a fictional 'PAM'. Not a good idea at all.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:07:44 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: SC Subject: Re: What do premies think? Message:

Frankly SC, the PAM statements just raise the very same issue that has been raised by many of us for quite some time. It's just further analysis of the same thing. So, I ask the question which you don't answer. What do you think of the fact that premies did the CAC attack and Maharaji hasn't said a damn thing about it? What do you think of the fact that Maharaji also hasn't made a single public statement about the Jagdeo situation? Do you care?

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:06:18 (EDT) From: Francesca :C) Email: None To: SC Subject: Aren't you anonymouse yourself? [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:05:41 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Francesca :C) Subject: Sc's not anonymous, Francesca Message:

I must stick up for him. He has often signed his posts with his real name, David Roupell.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 11:03:06 (EDT) From: boofhead Email: None To: SC Subject: Maybe Message:

then maybe not. As you are well aware that the PAM in question is a bit close to home, or better is at home. I think it's easy to confirm if he is fictional or not.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 12:44:47 (EDT) From: SC Email: None To: boofhead Subject: That's true... Message:

Guess we'll find out! ;;;;;:)

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 21:36:16 (EDT) From: Abi Email: None To: Joe Subject: EV lawyer denies it Message:

According to the Texan lawyer Elan Vital hired to deal with me no-one associated with Elan Vital had anything to do with CAC. Frank Sommerville stated this in writing is response to a question I asked about it. I also think it is telling that the Andersen website fails to deal with any of these issues. It makes a mockery of their self-serving cant.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 12:50:14 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: Abi Subject: Re: EV lawyer denies it Message:

Abi, I have no doubt that there wasn't any 'official' Elan Vital involvement in CAC. But I feel confident that people within Elan Vital were involved, at least to the extent of turning over the Elan Vital files that Elan Vital maintained on those of us who post on the Internet. But I agree with the PAM that Maharaji probably gave the green light to people who aren't Elan Vital personnel to take some kind of action against EPO. So, what the lawyer said is probably technically true, but I think that's the point: The way the Maharaji cult operates isn't really through the official organization. That's just a front to create some form of legitimacy. That's always been true.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 15:26:19 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: MarianneDB@aol.com To: Joe Subject: It's called plausible deniability Message:

And when I get done with my little tasks, that deniability won't be plausible any more. Marianne

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 17:18:17 (EDT) From: Chuck S. Email: None To: Joe Subject: A place to post responses to websites... Message:

Maharaji Watch [ Page Link ]

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 17:45:17 (EDT) From: Chuck S. Email: None To: Chuck S. Subject: Oops, here's the text to explain... Message:

On my ''Maharaji Watch'' Website, I have added a link to a Bravenet forum I created, for the sole purpose of allowing anyone to respond to any of the websites listed in the Maharaji Watch Directory. I hope you will consider publishing there your two posts that were rejected by the ''Please Consider This'' website. Since ''The Maharaji Watch Web Directory'' is all about free speech, anyone can post comments about any of the websites. The ''Maharaji Watch - Say What You Think'' forum is specifically about commenting on the websites listed, so I reserve the right to remove as ''spam'' anything else posted there (such as Satsang or War debates - there are other forums for that stuff). I also want to say that the Maharaji Watch Web Directory was largely a response to CAC. If CAC re-appears, I have some other ideas ready to launch at a moments notice :)

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 14:26:09 (EDT) From: Barbara Email: None To: Joe Subject: A Question Message:

Hi Joe: According to the 'Pam Memoir' post, s/he said '[T]he big-eating Frenchman would have kept this operation under the tightest of wraps, were it an officially sanctioned one. Even most of the PR team probably wouldn't have been told it was sanctioned by M - let alone anyone else.' I assume Pam meant J-M Bonthous. Does this mean anything one way or another? Seems ambiguous to me, but makes sense, though. The presence of groupthink would allow premies to create and implement CAC without overt approval, thinking they're defending their Lord by participating in a Hindu jihad. M's lack of response is thereby seen as mute approval. B

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 19:10:39 (EDT) From: Joe Email: kevjo@mindspring.com To: Barbara Subject: Good Point Message:

Barbara, I think you are right about that. I think the point the PAM was making was that if the 'big-eating Frenchman' was behind CAC, seeing it as Maharaji's agya to do it, he would have kept it all secret, even from honchos at Elan Vital, and other honchos around Maharaji. So, it could be carried out and the official Elan Vital might not even know about it. And the fact that the perpetrators were kept secret, kind of supports that theory. I guess it's kind of like how Nixon used the CIA to undercut the FBI in the Watergate investigation. And according to Donner, Maharaji does that kind of thing all the time -- telling something to one person, and then something else (opposite) to someone else, and let them work at cross-purposes. Donner could probably tell you more about how that works, although I understand he was frequently caught in the middle of those kinds of things. So, I think it's quite possible the Elan Vital records, the files they were compiling on all of us through the 'monitors' were used to create CAC without the official Elan Vital even knowing about it. So, Elan Vital might feel just as much shit on as the victims of CAC are, although that insulting press release wouldn't seem to indicate that. By the way, is the 'monitor' from Elan Vital who left Terry Yingling? I think it is. Terry is a great person, as I recall. She would be much better off out of the cult, contributing in some way to the world, which she is most capable of doing. Anybody know how to reach her?

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:17:05 (EDT) From: Vicki Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Good Point Message:

She wasn't out recently that I know of. She is their big PR person, handling the press and negative stuff and all that sort of thing. Just call ev and ask for her. She was always a decent sort of person, whenever she gave her spiels at events to service people. She never put people down or made fun of them like others would. But make no mistake, she's pretty much one of the top ev people.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:00:38 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Vicki Subject: That won't work, Vicki Message:

Just call ev and ask for her. Unless you've got some private numbers, they never answer their phone.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 12:16:18 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: Vicki Subject: Re: Good Point Message:

I understood she quit her PR position after the Jagdeo situation came to light. According to Dettmers, she quit and I know for a fact that she was in charge of monitoring EPO while she was still with EV.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 14:39:31 (EDT) From: Pauline Premie Email: None To: Barbara Subject: Jean Marie Bonthous?? Message:

I thought his name was "John Mary Boathouse." Boy, did I have THAT wrong. I must have been really in my mind. He is really a 'good eater' whatever his name is. In fact, the guy is a real butterball. Maybe it's from all the prashad he eats.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 14:45:36 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Pauline Premie Subject: Pauline, are you a Pussy or a Kitty? Message:

Did you have anymore blood to sell to pay for the KIT seminars?

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:38:29 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Maharaji behind CAC. Message:

Whether or not Rawat actually was involved hands-on in the production of CAC is almost beside the point. He is responsible for it insofar as he is responsible for the influence (or lack of) that he has over his followers. If he were a decent human being he would have immediately taken responsibility as leader of the pack, found out who actually did it and given those names to the CAC victims so that we could clear our names and seek legal remedies. Until he does that I hold him responsible and will never let him forget it. As the socalled ''Master'' he is responsible for anything that his students do in his name.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 12:57:51 (EDT) From: cq Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: er ... wouldn't that same reasoning Message:

Pat, wouldn't that reasoning make JC responsible for the horrors of the Inquisition and suchlike? Or the Pope personally responsible for the many cases of child abuse that continue in the RC church? I'm not suggesting that M has *no* responsibility at all - the consequences of his students' actions DO ultimately reflect on him and his 'teaching' - for sure. But I think that it can be counter-productive to the exes 'cause' (as it were) to blame him for everything.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:04:55 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: cq Subject: Yes and no, Chris Message:

Pat, wouldn't that reasoning make JC responsible for the horrors of the Inquisition and suchlike? Or the Pope personally responsible for the many cases of child abuse that continue in the RC church? I'm not suggesting that M has *no* responsibility at all - the consequences of his students' actions DO ultimately reflect on him and his 'teaching' - for sure. But I think that it can be counter-productive to the exes 'cause' (as it were) to blame him for everything. --- If Christ were alive during the Inquisition adn all those things were done in his name and he knew about it, you bet your boots he'd be responsible. If the pope's aware of chronic child abuse and doesn't do enough to avoid it, same thing.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 13:57:33 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: cq Subject: Pope Pius X11 or whatever version Message:

......said nothing to condemn the Holocaust supposedly. I don't know who was pope during the inquisition and crusades. But of course they were responsible ultimately. My point isn't that I know that Rawat IS responsible. It's that I am HOLDING him responsible. Actually it's not me who is doing that. It's what any sane person would perceive. If something is done in his name that he does not approve of it is up to him to condemn it and stop it. As long as he keeps silent those assumptions or speculations will be made. ;)

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:36:58 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Joe Subject: I don't think they realize anything Message:

They've just started an attack 'a la Bjorn' on the French forum, manipulating a couple of French premies I know. The scenario is so ridiculous that nobody with a normal brain would buy it. My opinion is that they have NO IDEA of how it reflects on their guru and their organization. They're on another planet altogether, and there is no logic to understand or analyze or find any sense in what they're doing. Rawat's assistant are convincing gullible premies to undertake stupid actions that backfire on them. And they keep doing it. They're disconnected from the real world.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:48:09 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: I think you may be right Message:

You make a good point J-M. It may be a big mistake for me to continually try to look for logical patterns in what is going on. It's so obvious there isn't any plan whatsoever, just a total out of touch viewpoint, and bizarre reactions based on however Maharaji is feeling at the moment. But I guess from the way I've been trained, I keep trying to look for some rational process, and there probably isn't any.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:41:07 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Re: I don't think they realize anything Message:

Yes, J-M, they are so infantile that I think they believe that if they put their hands over their eyes no one can see them. It's very sad to see adults behave this way.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:51:27 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: Pat, slow down Message:

I don't agree that all premies are infantile and blind, and I think it's that kind of talk that sometimes keeps people from being open to what gets said here. As we have seen with the recent PAM, and I guess his or her friends, there are apparently lots of premies who are thinking long and hard about their involvement in the cult, including people high up in the organization, maybe especially them. They aren't stupid people, they are just afraid to make the leap out of the cult for fear of what might happen to them. I know that's where I was before I left. I didn't feel infantile or brainwashed, I just felt like I needed to get out. Then began the process of sorting it all out.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 14:32:17 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Pat, slow down Message:

I agree with you. But the premies who are not infantile and have some brain don't get involved anymore in anything: they just go watch videos, or have a dish in their home. The rank and file premies are those in charge nowadays, and they try their best to obey the orders they get from 'the top'. At their own expenses of course. Like those premies on the French forum: they're in a mess now .....

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 14:43:36 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Kitties and Pussies in a Message:

dog eat dog world. Yes, J-M, the PWKs who are really into the religion enough to have done the KIT seminars are the absolute hardliners and I don't think they can be rational anymore. The Pussies (old-fashioned premies who used to enjoy satsang and service) keep themselves to themselves and dislike EV, just watch videos and send a bit of money occassionally.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 14:26:18 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Joe Subject: Joe, I agree completely Message:

Yes, I am a hothead and say some overly impulsive stuff but I really had no intention of tarring all premies with the same brush. Most premies that I know really are decent. I'm even starting to feel more tolerant of the anonymous cultweasels who disrupt the forum as I know that they are acting from their sincere beliefs. Perhaps one day they will see that those beliefs are making them not very sociable and friendly and really do cut them off from the human race.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:28:03 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: Joe Subject: Here's the background on CAC Message:

For those who need background, following is the statement by the twelve ex-premies who were attacked by premies via the CAC website. One ex-premie who was attacked is not included on the list, as the CAC jerks were successful in blackmailing him off the Internet by showing the picture and address of his daughter. It's all about peace, love and a personal experience that's just so beautiful, right? STATEMENT BY VICTIMS ATTACKED BY THE MAHARAJI CULT August 30, 2001 The undersigned were recently attacked by unnamed premies (devotees of Maharaji), by means of an Internet website called “Citizens Against Cyberstalking” (www.stopcyberstalkers.org) which, at first glance, appeared to be a public service to the victims of harassment. These premies targeted the twelve of us, who are all former followers of Maharaji (“ex-premies”), by labeling us criminal “cyberstalkers,” and by listing our names with eight other alleged “cyberstalkers” who included child molesters and kidnappers. The website was an incitement to anyone viewing the site to contact our employers, families, professional associations, licensing bureaus, and other entities to inform them that we had engaged in criminal activity. The website provided corresponding addresses, telephone numbers and email links for them to easily do so. The website also included our pictures, disclosed addresses of our homes and businesses, telephone numbers and email addresses. In one extreme attempt at intimidation, the authors of the website even went so far as to provide the picture of the young child of one of the ex-premies, and listed the address of where the child lived. It also included false, out-of-context, and misleading information about all of us, including twisted and fabricated quotes these premies used as “proof” of their allegations of our mental illness or criminal activity. The obvious goal of these premies was to blackmail and intimidate us so that we would refrain from posting about Maharaji and his cult on the Internet. The perpetrators specifically offered to refrain from further blackmail if the victim did so. Sadly, one of our numbers, so frightened about the safety of his daughter whose picture and address were displayed, capitulated publicly to the blackmail and his name was then removed from the “cyberstalker” list. We believe we were singled out for attack from among the hundreds of ex-premies who have posted on the Internet because we are perceived to have been effective in helping premies who no longer want to be a part of the Maharaji cult, who were staying out of fear or other reasons, to leave the cult by supplying information that has been kept secret by the cult for many years, and by generally offering them support. Some of us were targeted because of what would appear to be our particular vulnerability to blackmail. Three out of the twelve appear to have been chosen because they are gay, one appears to have been chosen because his child was vulnerable to attack, and most of us were chosen partly because we have posted under our own names on the Internet, and hence were easily identifiable. The website authors claimed that as premies they, themselves, have been the victims of defamation, harassment and other illegal activities at the hands of ex-premies, but no proof whatsoever was provided. Much less, no proof was provided that any of us, the actual victims of the website, had engaged in any such activities, and we categorically deny that we have done so. Although the perpetrators claim to consist of four individuals, we have reason to believe that Elan Vital, the front organization for Maharaji, and Maharaji himself, may have instigated, contributed to, or condoned this attack. We have been informed by reliable sources that Elan Vital has been “monitoring,” collecting data on, and even doing external investigations of, ex-premies who have posted on the Internet about Maharaji. We have also been informed that Elan Vital has assigned monitors to review our postings to compile extensive files on all of us, and we feel there is good reason to believe, based on the nature of the attack and who was chosen for the attack, that that information compiled by Elan Vital was used to prepare the website, and to defame and attempt to intimidate us. Whether the Elan Vital hierarchy officially condoned the use of this information is difficult to know. Under the circumstances, we find Elan Vital’s press release of August 23, 2001, both utterly inadequate and insulting, because it does not specifically condemn this attack, and it blames the victims for causing it. We are concerned because the press release is yet another “dig” at ex-premies, and might encourage the more fanatical of Elan Vital’s members to do something similar. We also suspect that Prem Pal Singh Rawat (aka Maharaji) may have been personally involved, at least to the extent of tacit approval, since to date we are aware of no public statement by him disavowing the website and its perpetrators. After threats of legal action were made publicly by several of us, the website was modified on August 23, 2001 and replaced with a statement that the premies behind the site would be contributing their “database of resources” to two unnamed organizations. This statement, which implies further dissemination of the defamatory material, as well as the possibility that it or a similar website could appear at any time, makes it even more alarming that we have yet to see any statement whatsoever from Mr. Rawat about this, nor have we seen any evidence of attempts by him to attempt to stop his more fanatic devotees from doing anything similar in the future. Since the perpetrators claim personal allegiance to Mr. Rawat and his teachings, we feel Mr. Rawat has a moral and ethical obligation to make such a public statement. This event is an ominous sign. Until recently, most of us believed that the more fanatical elements had died out years ago after the Mahatma Fakiranand incident in the 1970s. But these events, as well as earlier attempts by Mr. Rawat’s lawyers to shut down the websites through which ex-premies share information, lead us to believe that the Maharaji cult may be headed in the same direction as other destructive cults, such as Scientology, which attack former members who disclose critical information and opinions. Since we the undersigned stand behind our statements and opinions, and do so by not being anonymous, and because we intend to continue speaking about the subjects of Mr. Rawat and our former cult, we are understandably concerned about our safety. We can understand why the cult is concerned about us, to the extent of wanting us to be intimidated off the Internet. In addition to providing a support for premies leaving the cult, ex-premies have been extremely effective in publicizing the fact that Maharaji is not at all the person he has tried to project, and in fact he has serious personal flaws that he has attempted over the years, with great effort, to keep secret. We have also pointed out that Maharaji's priorities do not appear to be what he professes. During the same time he has amassed immense wealth for himself personally, he has failed utterly in 'spreading knowledge' and has thousands fewer followers today in the West than he had 20 years ago. He rarely does 'introductory programs,' rarely advertises his existence or that of 'knowledge,' and has shown little interest in doing anything other than retaining his core audience, his dwindling group of devotees from the 70s, and engaging in technological gimmicks, pretending that these are finally going to spread the word, after 30 years of failed attempts. If anyone needs any proof of the fact that Maharaji has reverted to his “Lord of the Universe” roots to retain these devotees, they need only note that as recently as a few months ago, in a high-security enclave in Australia, Maharaji had these devotees sing ARTI to him, a lengthy Hindu song premies sang to him in the 70s, which clearly describes Maharaji as a deity, and more extreme yet, Maharaji had those same devotees line up by the hundreds to kiss his feet. Neither Maharaji, nor Elan Vital, are about to tell any potential aspirant that such events occur in the year 2001, as Elan Vital deceptively presents Maharaji to the unsuspecting world as northing more than a entirely secular, modern, meditation master. But if these people happen to turn to the Internet, they just might learn the whole truth, and armed with more complete information, make up their own minds about who Maharaji is and what he offers. For these reasons, we will not be intimidated from providing a public service by speaking out freely about Maharaji. Joseph Whalen Anthony Ginn Marianne Bachers Jeffrey Leason William Williams Salam Al-Ahmar Michael Dettmers Patrick Conlon Jim Heller Jean-Michel Kahn Gerry Lyng

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 21:19:46 (EDT) From: salam Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Here's the background on CAC Message:

I think with the light of the new evidence recently published on f7 by a certain ex Pam, wouldn't you say that an addendum is in order for this statement?

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 18:56:13 (EDT) From: bill Email: None To: Joe Subject: Care to chime in Mili-ficent? [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 16:46:58 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Joe Subject: I haven't forgotten CAC Message:

I hope the CAC people don't think I have forgotten them, because I said I was going to do something, and I am in the process of doing so. Marianne

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 21:10:56 (EDT) From: Deborah Email: None To: Marianne Subject: That's what I want to hear Message:

Marianne, You have my endless support with this one. Can you imagine that PatC was warned about a Jihad condoned by the BigHead and within a couple of weeks the big jihad takes place. Cosmic eh? Imagine Maha having the same intentions and strategies as Osama bin Laden. He keeps good company with his bright ideas and all. Only thing, the premies should follow bin Laden. I'm sure he reminded them to breathe. And it only took him 45 minutes. Maha has been trying (apparently in vain) to remind premies to breathe for 30 years. Bin Laden showed Maha who was boss Maha sucks! And so does the EV conspirators. And the CAC people should be prepared to get their deserts any time. Deborah

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 18:57:27 (EDT) From: bill Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Your beautiful when you talk tough:) [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 17:24:09 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Marianne, now you KNOW french Message:

you can read the French forum, and you'll confirm that french Kitties are even more stupid than the US. Well, maybe they're having a contest after all ....... Yves and Danielle Argant are something else. I guess they now realize how badly they need to rush to the next seminar. I'll try to summarize their idiocities tomorrow.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 07:34:19 (EDT) From: Boofhead Email: None To: All Subject: Cause a Global Effect Message:

I found this link prety interesting. This is what they [EV]got to say about it: http://www.elanvital.ca/broadcastschedule.htm#NewsFLash Cause A Global Effect, a special 2-hour broadcast will air on the same day in all regions in honor of the worldwide growth and influence of broadcasts and materials. Also featured on this day: Passages, the remarkable story--taken from the 30th anniversary video shown in Nottingham--of Maharaji’s journey to make Knowledge available around the globe. And: footage showing how Maharaji’s vision is impacting different parts of the world. Includes a segment of “interesting facts” and interviews. Duration: 2 hours any ideas as to what am missing? [ Canada - broadcast schedule ]

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 19:04:31 (EDT) From: Vicki Email: None To: Boofhead Subject: Re: Cause a Global Effect Message:

What I am currently wondering, is how come these videos only show m in these serene poses, or on stage? Did any include Monica, him ranting at pwks, or drinking/smoking/toking? Checking out premie women? Or any of the miriads of other behaviours that have been witnessed first hand by pam's only? See, this, I realized while gardening, was the utter fasination for me once I got over the shock of EPO The videos and events are carefully constructed so we get this one dimensional image of m. Add to that what is said year after year after year and the facade is what seems so very real. If m is indeed a perfect master, why the need for such carefully orchestrated presentations?......well, we all know the answer to that one. Where is the wadamardyahansiwhatever videos showing the real live behind the scenes? And in the loving family images, where are the real things these kids spend there time on in Malibu? I'm feeling a wee bit stupid for thinking these holy familiy people were what they were presented to us as. Maybe this is in response to being told it was my fault for putting m on a pedestal. There's no choice, he is constantly and continually presented that way. That's why I'm now understanding pwks, their web sites, etc are so glowing. It is indeed very hard to see through all this, given that we are never allowed to really see anything, unless of course, we are a pam. And then that brings up the convoluted mindset that is in place to accept these behaviors as justifiable in the name of a perfect master, it's his life, etc etc etc I know this may seem very elementary to those of you who have had it figured out for simply eons, but I tell ya, it sure makes a difference understanding this for myself. I'd just once like to see an unedited, in your face, video of m in living color. But since Dunrite is made up of pams, and no one else is allowed at the events for photography purposes, it is all nicely concealed and will never happen. That's why pwks lurk here. They are hungry for what is really going on. Maybe it's too much to accept, but that's the bottom line. Otherwise they would never read one word. I didn't for years and years and years.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 02:54:58 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Vicki Subject: It's not elementary, Vicki Message:

Lots of stuff gets repeated. There's only so much stuff to talk about. It's that everyone says it in their own words and with their own point of view. That's why we stick around. It is so interesting to hear other peoples' takes on the subject. This idea of yours made me think: ''Maybe this is in response to being told it was my fault for putting m on a pedestal. There's no choice, he is constantly and continually presented that way.'' Exes are often told by premies that it is our fault for ever beieving that he was greater than god, or the perfect master, or the executive friend or you-know-who etc. The only difference is the pedestal. The original Hindu pedestal was a throne high above the crowds; the aura of divine mystique, the bald mahatmas, Krishna drag etc. The modern pedestal is videos. Videos remove one even further from the crowd than a throne or a divine entourage. Videos remove one so far that not only can you not see the warts but the warts have been digitalized out. Even if the emperor has no clothes they can be added by computer later.

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:05:24 (EDT) From: Vicki Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: Thanks Pat Message:

I never thought of that. I can't believe how I thought it was so real, so natural, such beautiful photography.....oh my gosh I'm embarressed!

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 16:57:06 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Boofhead Subject: Rev Rawat: ''My second stage of work.'' Message:

From the brochure that came yesterday: Rawat said that his first stage of work is now completed and that he was looking forward to the second. ''We need to go forward. There are so many people hungry for this gift.'' ''When you make an effort to spread that joy in this world, you can't measure it with a scale. You do it and it happens however it happens. It goes from person to person. From heart to heart.'' Of course you have to be trained at propagation seminars to speak person-to-person and heart-to-heart because, after 30 years of listening to Rawat's mind-boggling drivel, you are confused about what a person or even a heart is. I also wonder if spreading that joy includes defamatory and viciously cruel attacks on ex-premies such as the CAC attack. BTW the brochure is 8 pages, full-color glossy and is all about drumming up donations for the TV broadcasts. Become a sponsor for the suggested amounts of $10 to $500 per month. EV insists that PWKs' usual donations do not cover the new televangelism and that more money is needed for it.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 10:33:59 (EDT) From: magiclara Email: None To: Boofhead Subject: Re: Cause a Global Effect Message:

I saw passages when it was shown at Nottingam. After two days of sitting through very tedious wadhamar stuff and the dvd knowledge session, it seemed good. It is an historical account of m coming to the west and what happened etc. It has sixties and seventies music on it. I was in the process of being sucked back into believing it all at the time and this vid helped that process. Looking at it now with hindsight, it is a sugary compilation of film footage of m and his family and his comings and goings, interspersed with interviews with high ranking premies saying how marvellous everything was and is. I think the footage showing the impact of M round the world is the one that was shown at another programme. It showed people being blissful in Africa and various other places. There was one place where the people had come to watch a vid of m and he turned up for a surprise visit in person. It showed people being very delighted about it. So thats what your missing as well as being told that really there isn't enough money to cover putting these things on for you, so if you could just sign up for a monthly contribution...........

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:18:52 (EDT) From: Timmi Email: None To: magiclara Subject: Re: Cause a Global Effect Message:

Is Monica in the video? Or Jagdeo raping children? Or a video tour of the $25,000,000 residence and $45,000,000 jet? Are the warehouses full of darshan ''gifts'' shown? A report detailing why EV thinks it is entitled to call itself a church would be really nice. ''Cause a Global Effect''? Of what, nausea?

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 15:55:47 (EDT) From: magiclara Email: None To: Timmi Subject: Re: Cause a Global Effect Message:

Monica wasn't in the vid but I think she was there on the front row at the event with the other luminaries that were in it. There was talk of how m had only £25 in his pocket when he came to the west and that the devotees had hired a rolls royce for the day to pick him up at the airport. Then they had to tell him that it was only for the day and that the money for the house they had rented for him had run out. They went on about how wonderful m was about this and came to live in the ashram with them and was driven round in a cortina or something. They went on about how he didn't mind. As I say it seemed good at the time compared with the drivel I had sat through for two days and the fact that I was nearly sucked back into the whole pile of shite, but looking back on it it is one hell of a one sided piece of vomit making propaganda.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 18:13:54 (EDT) From: Timmi Email: None To: magiclara Subject: Re: Cause a Global Effect Message:

Monica wasn't in the vid but I think she was there on the front row at the event with the other luminaries that were in it. --- Oh, wow, was she really? He truly is a slimeball.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:25:55 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Timmi Subject: Cause of Global Warming Message:

More hot air from Jaba the Hutguru. Also more trees wasted: I just got a very expensive brochure about this and it is simply nonsense - like a puff piece for an aging rock star. Maybe I'll type some out later.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 17:41:33 (EDT) From: Timmi Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: Re: Cause of Global Warming Message:

We got the brochure, too. Ick. That gagging sound you hear is me. Whatever the brochure cost, it was a pure waste of money. If EV is so low on money, why on earth did they do that????

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 19:12:45 (EDT) From: Vicki Email: None To: Timmi Subject: yep Timmi Message:

I had no clue who she was until a pam type told me what she looked like and where she always was, and I was like 'Oh, her?' I can't help but remember once in Long Beach m looking straight into the vip area and saying how the perfect master doesn't come for just one person. It struck me immediately as odd, like he was talking to marolyn and I just didn't understand why he would say such a thing. Now I'm not so sure he wasn't talking to both of them.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 20:44:44 (EDT) From: Sheik Maharaji Email: None To: Vicki Subject: Re: yep Timmi Message:

did not know that a perfect master comes for these sort of things too. I always though that he came to pring peace to the world. are you saying that because of phsical limitations, the perfect master has to share his body too. I would be easier if he presented himself to the women in question and shared one big large bed with him, economically it's a viable solution. After all that's what a sheik does. Practically though, well you know women, they bitch about this and that. It's also not 'PC' to do things like that in Malibu.

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 18:22:23 (EDT) From: Suchabanana Email: j_edgarhoover@crossdressers.com To: All Subject: International Terrorist alert! Message:

Please, help the USA and its allies find, apprehend, and bring to justice this international terrorist cult leader. Cult Terrorist Profile: male, approx 40-45 years old, height 59-62 inches, weight 250+ lbs., hair black, South Asian country of origin, has hallucinations and delusions that God is speaking to/through him, proclaimed himself God-ordained leader of a radical medieval hierarchical fundumbmentalist cult, entered the US and received Boeing and other commercial jet airliner pilot training, uses foreign bank accounts and shell corporations to launder money internationally, vents rabidly against the logical mind, advocates cult-member mental lobotomy and servitude to himself aka the Massa, has directed manipulative covert mental lobotomies of tens of thousands of innocent unsuspecting victims, uses multimedia propaganda to effect cult aims, has ordered retribution on cult apostates, top cult lieutenants attempted the assassination of a critical journalist, ordered the aiding and abetting of top cult fugitives from the law, suspected of authorizing the smuggling of money through customs, alleged to have ordered subordinates to commit perjury, forgery and other felonies to hide his vehicular manslaughter and hit-and-run in India, uses rants in media recordings as propaganda and coded messages, conducts/coordinates cult operations in secrecy, uses internet and encrypted telecommunications network to communicate with cult agents, conducts cult training sessions in various international locations, has hideouts in both major cities and remote locations, maintains a private security force, demands absolute obedience and loyalty from subordinates and cult members, authorized his photos for worship by cult members, trains cult operatives in infiltration and indoctrination, has maintained pedophiles and other dangerous criminals on his staff, initiates cult members in secrecy and demands an oath of silence about these matters, was renounced and disowned by his own family, administered oaths of loyalty sworn by cult members, routinely invokes Name of God, declared holy war against apostates, has directed campaign against critical press/media, has accumulated tens of millions of dollars using phony non-profit front organizations, has constructed bunkers and security installations at cult locations, has sexually used cult women and maintains concubines, has engaged in slave and child labor practices, has used a financial labyrinth to circumvent jurisdictional tax agencies, has recurring bouts of paranoia and megalomania, has at various times claimed to be a messiah of this age and/or a godlike figure offering salvation to believing cult members, and has so far evaded international law enforcement authorities. If you have any information regarding a person fitting this profile, please immediately contact the FBI in the USA, or Scotland Yard in the UK. Peace and lentils,

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 21:15:14 (EDT) From: Deborah Email: None To: Suchabanana Subject: Wanted DEAD or ALIVE? Message:

Good post Such! Very interesting profile. Maha, as I said in a post above to Joe, parallels that of bin Laden.

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 21:15:22 (EDT) From: Bin Candescent Email: None To: Suchabanana Subject: Re: International Terrorist alert! Message:

Do he have personalized golden toilet and spend long time in room with private vintage mag collection--an accomplished bater having ascended to 'master' level during adolescence?

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 22:48:51 (EDT) From: such Email: None To: Bin Candescent Subject: dat massa baiter?? Message:

hey, somehow dat rings a bell [ding ding, ding dong, ding dong] dat could very well be a link! maybe we gonna collect dat $5 million reward. here's an udder clue i received, too: http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/ads/prem.html da you-said-a-mouthful dept.: "Did anyone ever wake up, sniff the air, and think: boy, I hope that's PREM I smell." [ http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/ads/prem.html ]

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 20:49:40 (EDT) From: Timmi Email: None To: Suchabanana Subject: Re: International Terrorist alert! Message:

Well said, Such. Thank you.

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 14:58:49 (EDT) From: cq Email: None To: All Subject: now, why do I find this funny? Message:

It's so fundamental 'I have my needs, I have my wants. Maybe I really want to fly a kite ...' EV quoting the Maha in their latest newsletter click here for more (if you can take it) Fly a kite? If only he'd go and do just that. Full time.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 21:19:54 (EDT) From: Deborah Email: None To: cq Subject: Where does he come up with this shit =) Message:

I keep thinking these quotes from him are a joke. But it looks like it's not. Is this a big conspiracy against me? You're all in on this, aren't you ?

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 10:03:37 (EDT) From: Gregg Email: None To: cq Subject: The Men's Room Message:

Let's see; should I go fly a kite or should I take a leak first? What a strange premise for a spiritual pep talk!! Of course, like most of his talks, he just kinda drifts away from his initial premise (which, odd as it is, could be developed into something of interest) into bland blather about 'me getting in touch with me' 'shirts...T-shirts...' and so on. Reminds me of a couple of aphorisms: The bland leading the bland. In the land of the bland, the pea-brained man is king.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:03:54 (EDT) From: cq Email: None To: Gregg Subject: Yeah - someone knows he's taking the piss! Message:

'Things get complicated—do they ever get complicated! But Knowledge and its realm needs to come so much from the heart all the time that when it starts to come from any other thing, when it is driven by any other thing, it disintegrates, and just becomes hyper-complicated. And when it gets complicated, I think, 'Please. I'm out of here.' I don't like it. Because it is not that I'm going to do this for another ten years and then retire. If that were my attitude, then I wouldn't really care. I would just try to make it as bureaucratic and as good and as safe as possible, and say, 'Okay. See what I have done? See what I have accomplished?' But I'm in it for life …' Maharaji in Florianopolis, Brazil, 26th August 2001 So that means we can only infer that the dispersal of this so-called 'Knowledge' won't be bureaucratic (whatever he means by that), and won't be 'as good and safe as possible'? Yet he's using DVD's instead of instructors? It's the old story - say one thing and do another. ******************************************************************

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 20:45:22 (EDT) From: Timmi Email: None To: cq Subject: Re: now, why do I find this funny? Message:

Some people have to work for a living. They don't have time to sit around on their butt and wonder if they should go to the bathroom or go fly a kite. Jeez, I'm going to be sick. Maybe if you do what you are supposed to do with your life....earn a living, be with those you love, take care of your responsibilities...all those things lead to contentment. Is that too radical a thought?

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 19:06:35 (EDT) From: salsa Email: None To: cq Subject: i couldn't read it Message:

I am vomiting...

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 21:22:53 (EDT) From: Deborah Email: None To: salsa Subject: You had to read it, to vomit :D Message:

Hi Salsa lita, How are you?

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 17:39:13 (EDT) From: such Email: None To: cq Subject: haha, more fun-dumb-mentalism Message:

It's so fundamental 'I have my needs, I have my wants. Maybe I really want to fly a kite ...' EV quoting the Maha in their latest newsletter click here for more (if you can take it) Fly a kite? If only he'd go and do just that. Full time. --- yeah, like go fly a kite awweddy -- fer cryin out lard!!

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 19:00:29 (EDT) From: bill Email: None To: such Subject: the lord talks about the joy of laundry (?) Message:

This is what I find incredible. Maybe you wash your clothes all your life, right? Well, maybe not all your life, but maybe since you were 14 or 15 or 16, you'd wash your clothes and dry them. Big deal. Did you get any joy out of it? No. You were just waiting. And this time, it's for something else. It's from somewhere else. And the same act that you maybe have been doing for ten years now brings you joy. I don't know how this works. I can't explain it to you. It's not a hydraulic system, it's not an electrical system, it's not a pneumatic system. It's not a computer system. It's a system of the heart. Is it mysterious? No, because the heart knows its ways and has known them for so long. Miracle manifests, joy manifests from doing the same thing that you have done all your life. How is that?

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 20:29:03 (EDT) From: such Email: None To: bill Subject: bet he does loads of laundry, right? Message:

just like he shine his shoes and wash his own cars and mow his lawn and clean his pool and make his bed like a good boy. haha well, gotta finish washing da dishes now. ciao! no royalty or billionaires here...

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 14:45:58 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: All Subject: Anybody Receiving Knowledge??e??e?? Message:

The current question over on 'Please Consider This' is an attempted counter to the allegations of ex-premies that hardly anyone is receiving knowledge in the West anymore. In that regard, we heard the following from the PAM who posted down below: EV has nearly come to a halt at the present. Less people have received Knowledge in the West in the past year than in any year since 1971 - a 30-year low. This, in addition to the glaringly obvious fact that at the time of Millennium, DLM claimed that over 40,000 people had received knowledge in the USA alone. At the 'largest' international program in Long Beach a couple of years ago, M bragged that 8,000 showed up, and that was an international program. Plus, when I was in the cult, we used to regulargly get 12,000 -15,000 at a 'program' with Maharaji in the states, and that was 20 years ago. So, yes, it's pretty obvious that knowledge haven't taken off in the West, and that the number of followers is drastically smaller than it was was even 20 years ago, and one would assume that at least a few people received knowledge since then. I think it's safe to say that 90% of the people who have received knowledge have split and that only a handful receive knowledge in the West every year, after EV and Maharaji squeeze donations out of the gullible premies for what appears to be an extremely low priority. In response, here is a response on the PCT website: Maharaji's 'movement' falling apart? Not in Germany. I received Knowledge in 1973 and for a little while about 30 people a week were receiving Knowledge here. For the past 25 years the number of practising people has not declined: it's a constant number of about 400 people (about 800 people attend when Maharaji speaks at events in Germany). So everything is stabilized, not falling apart. If we made more efforts to let people know about the possibility of Knowledge, the number of practising people would probably increase. Reinhold Goehlmann Yessir, in a country of 85 million, there are 400 premies, and 800 people will come to see the living master if he shows up. No, no shrinkage there at all. I don't know how many people received knowledge in Germany over the past 30 years, but I would imagine in was well over 10,000. The 90% attrition rate seems to stand. All the rest of the pathetic entries on PCT say that it doesn't matter that nobody is interested in receiving knowledge, because, it isn't about that. For example: The quantifiable things, the things you can 'poke a stick at,' will always have their ebbs and flows, and are not the essence of Maharaji's work. It seems to me that the significance of his message, when one begins to comprehend it, is so universal, so positive and so life-affirming that it challenges the complacency and disturbs the prejudices in all of us. I am not at all surprised that Knowledge has not become a mass movement, but would also not be surprised if it suddenly did. Chris Hamerton Now, is Chris a premie, or WHAT!!!?? See, it doesn't matter, so there! Thanks to Erika and David for sharing this with us!

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Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 14:54:43 (EDT) From: Mr. Observation Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Anybody Receiving Knowledge?? Message:

As a money-making operation, fund-raising for propogation to ostensibly 'spread knowledge' has been a resounding success. But in terms of actually achieving a sustained, growing movement - m's ceaseless fundraising circus has been a collossal failure. Yea, with the eminently laudable goal of dispensing 'peace portals' to the masses, this has amounted to nothing less than a supreme on-going racket. Tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars has been raised for this goal over the past thirty years utilizing a variety of techniques and methods of persuasion with an ever-changing cast of characters. At the end of the day, the only thing that is growing is m's bank account.

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 16:40:25 (EDT) From: Usama Email: None To: Joe Subject: We need a jihad! Message:

It's time we raised the sword and smite the infidel. For too long have we patiently beckoned the unbelievers. No more! Now we will convert with blood. Those who welcome us, we grant entrance to Paradise. To those who oppose us, hellfire awaits you. Jihad!!!

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 17:07:46 (EDT) From: Osama Email: None To: Usama Subject: Re: We need a jihad! Message:

That is so true brother Usama. If we abandoned the videos and DVDs and forced at sword-point conversion to the Maharaji, the most holy and true, one-God, Maharaji's feet be kissed, religion, maybe our numbers would increase. Of course, we should be selective, and force conversions only of people who have liquid assests in excess of $1,000,000. Why waste time on loosers with no money with which to do participation? Who needs them. They can blow up in large office buildings for all we care. All praise the living Perfect Master!!! Bohle Shri Satgurudev Maharaj Ki Jai!!!!!

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 13:22:23 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: All Subject: Glad to announce we also have Message:

French trolls on the French forum. I thought French people were more intelligents than the rest of the world: THEY ARE NOT!!!! Yves & Danielle Argant that is, they didn't even hid behind anonymousie ! CW et al are not THAT stupid.

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 14:18:11 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: You thought the French Message:

were more arrogant than anyone else? Oooops typo ....I mean 'intelligent' :)

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 16:09:12 (EDT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Dermot Subject: Still think they are ! Message:

more arrogant: definitely. More intelligent: not anymore.

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 19:21:56 (EDT) From: Francophile Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Is there a 'BIG-EATING FRENCHMAN' there? (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 16:25:08 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Re: Still think they are ! Message:

Well I agree with you on both counts :) ......nah I'm just stereotyping. I still remember fondly my closest French pal...pre K days 1970-73.....Gerrard from Lyon ...warm,friendly,intelligent,inquisitive and an anglo/Irishphile to boot. Haven't actually known too many Frenchies so I stick with the sterotypes :)

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Date: Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 13:43:53 (EDT) From: Loaf Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: what exatly is a Troll ??? [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:34:56 (EDT) From: Loaf Email: None To: Loaf Subject: I am serious ! is it a spam poster ? [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 13:46:01 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Loaf Subject: It's net slang for a person who Message:

....intrudes on forums that are of no interests to them. Trolls are anonymous people who disrupt forums and can range from merely mischievous to outright malicious. Troll is not exactly the right word for the anonymous premies who maliciously disrupt this forum or act as agents provocateurs and cult apologists. The correct name for them is cultweasel. ;)

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Date: Tues, Oct 16, 2001 at 16:30:06 (EDT) From: Loaf Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: thanks Pat [nt] Message:

[nt]

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