JHB -:- Forum 7 Archives -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 18:05:29 (EST)

__ Tim G -:- Re: Forum 7 Archives -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 19:22:33 (EST)

__ __ Deborah -:- here you go! -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 21:39:22 (EST)

__ JHB -:- Hotboards corruptions -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 18:10:03 (EST)

AJW -:- Catweasle protecting a paedophile? -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 04:29:05 (EST)

__ such -:- puddytat: pwease 'bwoadcast JD's whereabouts'! [nt] -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 15:28:04 (EST)

__ CW -:- Nothing for you Ginn -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 05:24:39 (EST)

__ __ AJW -:- Ooooer. Do I detect a slight threat?? -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 05:43:03 (EST)

__ __ __ CW -:- Way off track as usual -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 06:05:40 (EST)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Still waiting for answers Cat. -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 06:32:44 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: Still waiting for answers Cat. -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 07:10:04 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- See the Cat dodge the questions. -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 12:51:19 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Is Cat's question worth answering? -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 13:56:57 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- No -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 15:12:40 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: No -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 15:30:16 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- Re: No -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 19:25:02 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Try it on..... -:- Mon, Oct 29, 2001 at 03:34:10 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: See the Cat dodge the questions. -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 13:15:04 (EST)

Marianne -:- Cult as Country Club Substitute -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 00:43:35 (EDT)

__ such -:- yeah,+ a countwy club widout goff sucks! -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 15:14:30 (EST)

__ Gregg -:- My story, too. -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 10:28:05 (EST)

__ Brian Smith -:- There it is ! -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 01:23:07 (EDT)

__ __ Mr. Dooley -:- C.C. for the weary, weak and Predators! [nt] -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 15:10:52 (EST)

Vera -:- The Five Commandments (revised, 2001) -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 23:46:06 (EDT)

__ Elan Vital -:- Re: The Five Commandments (revised, 2001) -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 19:17:17 (EST)

__ Jerry -:- The fifth commandment -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 12:19:03 (EST)

__ Dermot -:- It was 3am just before bed here:) [nt] -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 08:16:54 (EST)

__ AJW -:- The Real, True, Five Commandments (revised, 2001) -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 05:23:08 (EST)

__ Dermot -:- and the real commandments? -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 00:11:32 (EDT)

__ Jim -:- Cute but not quite cute enough -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 23:53:17 (EDT)

__ __ Vera -:- Humor (Webster's dictionary, page 593)) -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 01:52:29 (EDT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- It's the way you tell them Vera. (nt) -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 05:28:38 (EST)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Humor (Webster's dictionary, page 593)) -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 01:59:34 (EDT)

Repost from Lifes Grate -:- marji is da cookie monsta -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 18:57:42 (EDT)

Brian Smith -:- The Religion of Elvis -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:18:35 (EDT)

__ Brian Smith -:- Link for above post. sorry [nt] -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:24:03 (EDT)

__ __ B.Smith -:- Re: Link for above post. sorry -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:27:45 (EDT)

DesertWoman -:- I love Maharaji and his Knowledge -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 14:48:03 (EDT)

__ Vicki -:- Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 23:56:11 (EST)

__ Larkin -:- Is that what it's REALLY like. for you.?? -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 17:32:25 (EST)

__ such -:- Re:I love Maharajiavelli and HIS GeneralLedger.LOL [nt] -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 14:44:59 (EST)

__ Jerry -:- Well, bully for you -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 12:27:55 (EST)

__ AJW -:- Hey Desert Woman . -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 04:07:42 (EST)

__ __ Jethro -:- Re: Hey Desert Woman . -:- Mon, Oct 29, 2001 at 02:32:21 (EST)

__ __ Brian Smith -:- This is really interesting Anth -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 14:14:45 (EST)

__ __ __ PatD -:- Re: This is really interesting Anth -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 15:27:56 (EST)

__ Scott T. -:- You've convinced me. -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 01:58:52 (EDT)

__ Brian Smith -:- It takes more than Love -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 23:23:11 (EDT)

__ __ Chuck S. -:- Great Post! -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 17:17:17 (EST)

__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Thank You Chuck -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 20:40:50 (EST)

__ Jim -:- If you don't mind, this calls for cq -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 22:52:15 (EDT)

__ Deborah -:- Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge, NOT :| -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 20:59:03 (EDT)

__ __ silvia -:- ()) good post (nt) -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 12:36:24 (EST)

__ __ Tim G -:- Great Post Deborah. nt -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 05:19:56 (EST)

__ __ Selene -:- hey Deb you are right -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 21:11:54 (EDT)

__ Rick -:- Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 20:18:30 (EDT)

__ Joe -:- You 'love' Maharaji??? -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:27:56 (EDT)

__ Tim G -:- Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:52:53 (EDT)

__ __ Zelda -:- from one dw to another -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 19:00:49 (EDT)

__ __ __ salam -:- Re: from one dw to another -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 20:02:54 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Zeld -:- Re: from one dw to another -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 23:15:18 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ salam -:- Re: from one dw to another -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 23:39:49 (EST)

__ Jim -:- Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:01:09 (EDT)

__ __ DesertWoman -:- Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:06:38 (EDT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- 'Inner feeling'? -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 04:37:06 (EST)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:22:36 (EDT)

__ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:20:31 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ DesertWoman -:- Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:24:21 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ salam -:- Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 22:33:42 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:36:19 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Reality check? -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:33:35 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Terminal Paranoia -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:32:47 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Not Jerry - guess again(nt) -:- Re: Terminal Paranoia -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:50:13 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- You got me... -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:15:33 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Is that Gerry or Jerry? -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 12:35:00 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Sorry... -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 12:55:49 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- No problem -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 13:11:35 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Hi Barbara -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:28:04 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Barbara, Home on the Range -:- Hi Marianne -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:39:29 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- ladies, please OT -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 18:28:39 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Cookin' at the Savoy OT -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 11:19:04 (EST)

Vicki -:- Vicodin -OT -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 05:59:45 (EDT)

__ Peg -:- Thanks Vicki! -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 13:29:42 (EDT)

__ __ Cynthia -:- Here's a link...O/T -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:01:14 (EDT)

Henrietta Wallaby -:- Amaroo: Cutbacks/Booze -:- Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 23:09:55 (EDT)

__ Vicki -:- Re: Amaroo: Cutbacks/Booze -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 22:59:00 (EST)

__ __ CW -:- Re: Amaroo: Cutbacks/Booze -:- Mon, Oct 29, 2001 at 03:47:34 (EST)

__ CW -:- Re: Amaroo: Cutbacks/Booze -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 08:03:16 (EST)

__ Deborah -:- ~AUM ~ AUM on the Range~ -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 18:51:04 (EDT)

__ Barbara -:- Scamaroo? -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 14:55:48 (EDT)

__ __ AJW (really Joe) -:- Is Barbara really Bjorn? -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 04:41:35 (EST)

__ __ __ Barbara -:- I'm really Bjork dancing in the dark -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 11:29:19 (EST)

__ __ Henrietta Wallaby -:- Henrietta Wallaby -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:16:29 (EDT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- CAC Attack. -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 04:16:59 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- CAC Attack. Brilliant, Anth! [nt] -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 13:38:17 (EST)

__ __ __ Barbara -:- Yo Henrietta.... -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:42:21 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ salam -:- fuck off you dim wit -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 08:27:11 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- I think a dingo stole your brain... -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 11:11:15 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- no he did not -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 19:39:59 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Your status is mercifully restored -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 22:49:08 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- you have been elevitate -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 23:44:13 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- a dingo stole Salam's brain... -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 13:49:50 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Thanks, Pat -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 22:51:12 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Hi, have you two met ...this is..and :) [nt] -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 11:19:39 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Barbara, it's for real.... -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 17:03:33 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ looking for facts -:- Joe, what's the OTS post you refer to? nt -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 00:41:02 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Archives -- post by Richard -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 13:48:36 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ looking for facts -:- Richard-where is for OTS post? nt -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 14:39:23 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Researcher -:- Here is OTS Earlier Post -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 18:01:10 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Re: Richard-where is for OTS post? nt -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 15:41:13 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Thanks, Joe -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 19:09:06 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Okay, thanks, Joe.... -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 17:22:35 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Too funny, Barbara -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 19:04:59 (EDT)

__ looking for facts -:- Re: Amaroo: Cutbacks/Booze -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 11:29:30 (EDT)

__ Mr Dooley -:- Thanks for info -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 01:06:46 (EDT)

__ __ Moll of Mole -:- Re: Thanks for info -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 03:54:51 (EDT)

__ __ __ Cyntia -:- Az an 'ole faschioned permie.. -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:21:21 (EDT)

gErRy -:- oH! dear oH! my -:- Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 21:08:41 (EDT)

__ Troll Patrol -:- Do I get to exterminate him, boss? -:- Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 21:24:17 (EDT)

__ __ Cynthia -:- I ain't no boss, but... -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:06:41 (EDT)

__ __ __ JohnT -:- Woof! -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 03:52:15 (EST)

Mr Dooley -:- Anonymity/ and for PAM -:- Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 20:30:50 (EDT)

__ Roger eDrek -:- Re: Anonymity/ and for PAM -:- Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 21:42:23 (EDT)

__ __ AJW -:- I completely agree Roger. -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 04:52:09 (EDT)

__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- I might as well be anonymous -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:12:35 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ John Brown -:- Yeah, know what you mean , Bri [nt] -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:05:39 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ If you think that's bad... -:- I know a woman... -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:27:19 (EDT)

__ __ __ Roger eDrek & barney -:- Re: I completely agree Roger. -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 13:57:03 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- A bad name? -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 12:58:55 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hey Roger.... -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 14:45:41 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Re: Hey Roger.... -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 21:32:48 (EDT)

__ __ Mr Dooley -:- Re: Anonymity/ and for PAM -:- Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 21:58:38 (EDT)

__ Deborah -:- Classics and film scholar (OT) -:- Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 21:06:39 (EDT)

__ __ Mr Dooley -:- for Deborah -:- Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 21:24:21 (EDT)

__ Pat:C) -:- hang down your head, Mr Dooley -:- Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 20:41:34 (EDT)

__ __ Katie -:- A plea for anonymous posters (kinda rambling) -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 11:53:59 (EDT)

__ __ __ Scott T. -:- Re: A plea for anonymous posters (kinda rambling) -:- Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 01:09:59 (EST)

__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- But, Katie, I'm not being dogmatic -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 13:20:54 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hm, not quite with you there, Pat -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 13:32:07 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Glad to hear you say that Jim -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 19:15:35 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Sorry, Jim -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 14:06:21 (EDT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Easy for you to say -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 12:29:57 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Correction -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 13:49:19 (EDT)

__ __ AJW -:- Nothing to hide Pat? -:- Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 04:55:08 (EDT)

__ __ Seamus Dooley -:- Hang down your head and cry -:- Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 21:10:14 (EDT)

Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 18:05:29 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: All Subject: Forum 7 Archives Message:

Archives of Forum 7 are now up to date. These include the discussions immediately following the events of September 11th. Rather than try to remove all such off topic discussions, these are preserved as a small reminder of our thoughts during that time. John.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 19:22:33 (EST) From: Tim G Email: timgitti@indigo.ie To: JHB Subject: Re: Forum 7 Archives Message:

HI John. Thanks for your efforts. How does one access the archives?

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 21:39:22 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Tim G Subject: here you go! Message:

Hi Tim, If you want to do it manually, go to the EPO page. Scroll down to: Best of Forum. In the text there is a hyper link. Meanwhile, here's a boost. Cheers [ The Archives ]

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 18:10:03 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: JHB Subject: Hotboards corruptions Message:

As you may have noticed trying to read this forum, Hotboards isn't an example of the finest computer programming. Corruptions occur in most snapshots of the forum. A common error is that the same message number is assigned to two different posts, which means that one of those posts is lost. If you feel strongly about this, write to Microsoft. John.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 04:29:05 (EST) From: AJW Email: None To: All Subject: Catweasle protecting a paedophile? Message:

Catweasle, Earlier, you told us you had information about Captain Rawat's paedophile pal, Jagdeo. You said, 'Get over to India yourself (if your game!)and you can search the place from top to bottom but you wont find JD. He isn't there and hasn't been there for a while.' When I asked you for more information on his whereabouts, you replied, 'I have been asked not to broadcast his whereabouts.' So, let's give you the benefit of the doubt Cat, and say you're not bullshitting. Who told you not to broadcast Jagdeos whereabouts? If this is true, you are confirming what we've been saying all along. The cult is still protecting Rawats' paedphile pal. So, what's going on here Cat? Where is Jagdeo? Who told you not to tell anyone where he was? And why are you not being honest and straighforward with me about this? Anth Ginn.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 15:28:04 (EST) From: such Email: bananas@skinsRus.org/y To: AJW Subject: puddytat: pwease 'bwoadcast JD's whereabouts'! [nt] Message:

bow-wow

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 05:24:39 (EST) From: CW Email: None To: AJW Subject: Nothing for you Ginn Message:

Silly bugger.You'd be surprised who might be watching your antics here Mr Ginn.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 05:43:03 (EST) From: AJW Email: None To: CW Subject: Ooooer. Do I detect a slight threat?? Message:

Silly bugger.You'd be surprised who might be watching your antics here Mr Ginn. --- Hey Cat, Guess what? I don't give a shit who's watching here. I'm not afraid to say what I think, feel, and know about this topic. Jagdeo is a scumbag paedophile who was protected by the cult for years. There are very reliable reports that Captain Rawat knew about his crimes for years and did nothing. This evil bastard is still free, and for all anybody knows, he is still going around setting up special sessions with little kids then trying to fuck them. So, let's get back to my questions Cat. You come here, mouthing off about your Masters paedophile pal, then when I ask you about what you said, you avoid the question, question my motives etc. Finally, you tell us you've been told not to say anything. Let's look at this. First, who tells you what you can and can't write on the forum? (I write what I like Cat. I'm free to do so.) Second. What do you really know about this paedophile who your cult has been hiding and lying about for years? And finally, this leads me to wonder what kind of person you really are. At the moment you look like another amoral, mindless jerk, whose values in life have become so bankrupt, he is happy to hide a paedophile. Please correct me if I've got it wrong here Cat. Anth the Silly Bugger. PS Cat. Your words would carry much more weight here if you weren't anonymous. Ha Ha Ha.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 06:05:40 (EST) From: CW Email: None To: AJW Subject: Way off track as usual Message:

You see you and your foolhardy friends here think you are running an investigation. But you are not. You are running parallel witch hunts that in this case will be totally ineffective. So therefore I put my faith in a real legal enforcement agency. I really hope you understand 'Anth who see's himself as a cross between Mother Therasa and Dick Tracy' Now go figure this. If the matter is sub-judice and the perpertrator is still at large,who would ask me to be quiet. I mean how stupid are you really Mr Ginn. Do you wish to alert the old Spider in time for him to move.We are on different sides of the fence Aginn. I wont be working with you. But you can rest assured I wont and haven't protected a Rock Spider. Now take your Maoist charms elsewhere.(My information by the way is no longer fresh. It was when passed on.Interestingly there are no victim statements in any place where interpol operates. Why is this?)

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 06:32:44 (EST) From: AJW Email: None To: CW Subject: Still waiting for answers Cat. Message:

Cat, You've still avoided answering my two questions. Why don't you answer? And your comments as regards the 'Witch Hunt' against your master's paedophile pal, I find frankly offensive. The massive trail of abused children Jagdeo has left all over the world has only been uncovered by information from these sites. When these victims went to the cult, they were fobbed off with bullshit. I've got a letter from a national co-ordinator telling me, 'Jagdeo may have been telling some children a story, and his hand may have rested on one of their thighs and this could have been misinterpreted.' The cult first denied any abuse had happened. Shit, a newspaper was told, Jagdeo belonged to an organisation called Divine Light Mission, which had nothing to do with Elan Vital. The cult has done nothing but backtrack, change its story, lie, and fudge. This is because nobody really cares about Jagdeos victims. They are only concerned with protecting Captain Rawat and his now tarnished image. So, as the only representative of the cult on the forum, I have to treat what you say with caution. Particulary when you don't answer my questions and post anonymously. Also Cat, I've seen people for whom I've a lot more respect than I have for you, not hesitate for a split second, if told to lie for Captain Rawat. You have lost the picture Cat. Let me adjust the focus. Jagdeo is a fucked up paedophile who is still at large. Don't you think we should be co-operating to bring him to justice? All you've done is avoid my very simple, straighforward questions. Anth, Maoist love child of Mother Theresa and Dick Tracy.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 07:10:04 (EST) From: CW Email: None To: AJW Subject: Re: Still waiting for answers Cat. Message:

Obviously you have great difficulty with plain english. My answer is clear.You are trying too hard. Answer my question . Why are there no Victim statements available at any law enforcement agencies operating with Interpol. Simple question. Try and answer it.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 12:51:19 (EST) From: AJW Email: None To: CW Subject: See the Cat dodge the questions. Message:

Obviously you have great difficulty with plain english. My answer is clear.You are trying too hard. Answer my question . Why are there no Victim statements available at any law enforcement agencies operating with Interpol. Simple question. Try and answer it. --- Cat you are trying too hard. Answer my questions. Don't try and confuse the issue. 'Who told you not to disclose Jagdeo's whereabouts?' 'What do you know about his whereabouts?' Simple questions. Try to answer them. Anth Ginn.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 13:56:57 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: AJW Subject: Is Cat's question worth answering? Message:

Anth, Is it possible to publish the status of the Cornwall police investigation into Abi's rape? Have they informed Interpol? Is that how it works? Has Abi given a formal statement? If for some reason this can't be published, I'd be grateful for an email on this. Thanks, John.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 15:12:40 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: JHB Subject: No Message:

John, Cat asking anything like that right now is an absurdity. Interpol etc. is a big red herring. What do we know for sure? We know that EV claims that they've filed a lawsuit against Jagdeo but can't find him. We also know that Cat claims he knows where he is but has been asked to keep that information secret. Unless Cat explains that situation thoroughly and convincingly I can't imagine any basis for discussing anything with him, especially not Jagdeo.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 15:30:16 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: No Message:

Jim, Of course Cat is full of shit, but if the question seemed valid to me, it may seem valid to other readers. To my knowledge, the only two legal actions we are aware of are the ones involving Cornwall police and DUO's supposed civil action against Jagdeo. Whatever Anth is permitted to tell us about the Cornwall police investigation may clarify things for other readers. John

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 19:25:02 (EST) From: salam Email: None To: JHB Subject: Re: No Message:

The question is, has a crime been committed? if so wouldn't CW be considered as withholding vital information?

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Date: Mon, Oct 29, 2001 at 03:34:10 (EST) From: CW Email: None To: salam Subject: Try it on..... Message:

I asked for proof of a victim's statement.Haven't seen anything but hot air up to now. Ginn provides proof and then you can start talking legal Mr Salam.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 13:15:04 (EST) From: Marianne Email: None To: AJW Subject: Re: See the Cat dodge the questions. Message:

Geez anth, just ignore him. He's never given a straight answer to any question put to him. I think he's got his knickers all in a twist over Henrietta's post about recent events in Amaroo -- all predicted by you last spring, by the way. Joe has spoken up to verify Henrietta's bona fides. All he does is come in an spray the forum from time to time. How's the cliffs? Marianne

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 00:43:35 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: MarianneDB@aol.com To: All Subject: Cult as Country Club Substitute Message:

Ok, now I see it. This is what it's all about. Are there 'country clubs' in places other than the US? In the US, a country club is a private club, usually joined by invitation only, at which a privileged few socialize with one another. The club might have an elite golf course and recreation facilities (pool, tennis) and a clubhouse where teen agers can host dances and the adults can have dinner parties, at which only members and their guests are permitted entrance. In this way, the 'wrong' element (like non-white people, or poor people, etc) is excluded. It's often an exercise in exclusion, snobbery, sometimes racism and sexism. During the time I was growing up, being invited to join the country club was very desirable if your parents wanted to 'fit in'. It was my early '70's teenage, counter culture disgust with the country club notion of 'fitting in' that made me question the world I was living in and help make meaningful changes. There are hundreds of us, probably thousands, who got involved in the early years (November, '72 for me) for these same reasons. We rejected materialism, greed, social climbing, even gave up our most beloved family keepsakes because they represented mind -- maya -- and nothing should get in the way of our devotion to M and his mission. We gladly embraced these beliefs because they mirrored our own evolving understanding that money and status were vacuous pursuits, as we had seen by our parents' example. This is what M told us repeatedly, as did the mahatmas, his family, as did those who were running the show. This was a centerpiece of his message back then. We all parroted it back to each other at satsang too. I am reminded of our ashram vow of poverty and our rejection of the philosophy that financial wealth and social status defined us as individuals when I read the post made by Henrietta Wallaby. Henrietta's post, and many others I read, suggest that EV is now nothing more than a travelling country club of the snobbiest, most exclusionary sort, where the most well honed social climbing skills (and most financially well oiled) are the ones that reap the most sought after reward: access to Maharaji. How can he possibly justify spending $2 million on a restaurant that has only been open a handful of times? Isn't that arrogance of the most despicable sort? Whose money paid for that place? You can't get personal access to him without donating tons of money. If you want to get closer, you have to undermine your competition -- the person on the cult ladder rung just above you. Or maybe you have to prove your commitment by doing some dirty deed one of his henchmen suggests will assist you in obtaining more access. Make up a website with false information about some of the ex-premies. Write posts on EPO that harrass PAMS who have left the fold and dared to tell. Those who are left are enjoying nothing more than the dying social rituals of a country club from which the vast majority of members have fled and others are jumping ship in droves. Thanks Henrietta for your contributions. Marianne

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 15:14:30 (EST) From: such Email: tiger@nikerulestheworld.golf To: Marianne Subject: yeah,+ a countwy club widout goff sucks! Message:

FORE!!!!!!!!!! hohoho [Furdermoor, who ever heard uvva countwy cwub wit no foreplay, eider?!] fer yer invitation [er, infomation], da ony reqwirement at most country clubs is Moola [da big M]- da more da merrier - i.e. to join or get onna wading Lizst. hey, you're Irish - wouldja being knowin Sean O'Casey of Gilmorack, on da Mulligan side of da famwy? y'see, I used to take one o' dem Mulligans wid me pwactically evwy time i pwayed a lil' round... I pway da inner game of gawf! hohoho like, golf in da kingdom awweddy, fer crying out lard! Peace and lentils, PS me ol' dad has 5 holes-in-one. custom: every time ye score an ace, ye shall buy everybody in da clubhouse drinks dat day. well, if you have 150-200 members playing in a tournament - that can get quite expensive. so after the 4th hole-in-one, dad took out 'hole-in-one insurance'. now, I would na mind, no, a wee hole-in-one, fer da luvva mary...

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 10:28:05 (EST) From: Gregg Email: None To: Marianne Subject: My story, too. Message:

Although my liberal parents had somewhat rejected the country club culture, we still lived in a wealthy suburb and visited the St. Louis Country Club as guest of my mother's parents. We took swimming lessons in the icy swimming pool under the direction of a ruthless ex-Olympic swimming coach. We took dancing lessons there. They played golf east of the club, polo west of the club. In the late sixties, as a high school student who wanted to live in a Haight-Asbury crash pad and reach cosmic consciousness by taking drugs and having tantric sex and so forth, I saw my suburban culture as being in collusion with the Vietnam War-mongering Black Panther-shooting Establishment, and I wanted no part of it. Perhaps, a few years later, going to giant festivals and briefly living in a communal environment (with pranams to a picture, without anything but onanistic sex)fulfilled some of those yearnings in a twisted way. Very good observations, Marianne, about today's Elan Vital Country Club! BTW, yesterday, cleaning out the basement, I ran across a poster for an event I attended in May, 1970. It was a Be Here Now book tour, a few months before the book actually came out. It was called 'Going Beyond LSD' a lecture by someone named, according to the poster, Baba Dam Rass.' The lecture was a gas; I remember realizing for the first time that I really COULD get high without drugs. So that night led to that day in Cincinatti in 1975 when I received Knowledge...as it also led to exiting the cult and discovering an authentic non-totalitarian spirituality.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 01:23:07 (EDT) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: Marianne Subject: There it is ! Message:

That's it Marianne, you have hit upon something here, struck a note of parallel reality. The social dynamics are pretty much the same between the country club upper echelon, and the super premies. All it takes is money to power the escalator up to the feet of the master nowadays. The day of the "POOR" hopelessly devoted renunciate is over and no longer needed. Reminds me of that song back in the 70's 'Where is the Love' by Donnie Hathaway & Roberta Flack

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 15:10:52 (EST) From: Mr. Dooley Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: C.C. for the weary, weak and Predators! [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 23:46:06 (EDT) From: Vera Email: None To: All Subject: The Five Commandments (revised, 2001) Message:

In view of recent developments, there have been some minor changes to the Five Commandments: 1. Constantly deprogram, but remember your name. 2. Never doubt leaving room for your mind. 3. Never delay in attending the forum. 4. Always have faith in Jim. The fifth Commandment has now been set aside for Amaroo Management alone: 5. Do not put off till tomorrow staff who can be put off today. Yours in synchronization, THE FIVE COMMANDMENTS TEAM.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 19:17:17 (EST) From: Elan Vital Email: None To: Vera Subject: Re: The Five Commandments (revised, 2001) Message:

You ex-premies are always ruthlessly attacking us on the Internet. It makes us crazy. To correct the record Elan Vital, which is not a cult, feels it is necessary to point out that Maharaji, who is and never claimed to be God and is a successful investor in various, legitimate enterprises, never issued commandments. He never did that, you just got mixed up because of the Hindu cultural misunderstandings that were perpetrated by his bitch-mom, and the Mahatmas, who were sincere but very confused. So, there never were any commandments, but actually, there are some new ones: 1. Constantly donate, and remember American Express; 2. Never leave room for Maharaji's drunkened children in your bar or pub; 3. Never delay in paying outlandish registration fees and buying useless propagation packets; 4. Always have faith in Visa; 5. Do not be put off by Maharaji's exemplary personal behavior.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 12:19:03 (EST) From: Jerry Email: None To: Vera Subject: The fifth commandment Message:

Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. I use to live by that one. If anything needed to be done, I'd just do it, laundry, paying bills, cleaning house, done. Now that I'm no longer a practicing premie, and I don't think Maharaji is ALL THAT, I've slacked off following those commandments, particularly the 5th one. Has anybody else noticed that in themselves? Anybody else been doing a little more procrastinating than usual?

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 08:16:54 (EST) From: Dermot Email: None To: Vera Subject: It was 3am just before bed here:) [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 05:23:08 (EST) From: AJW Email: None To: Vera Subject: The Real, True, Five Commandments (revised, 2001) Message:

Constantly vegetate, and wonder who’s to blame. Leave no room for sprouts in your mind. Don’t put off until tomorrow what you can screw today. Never drink ale near the hat stand. Always have faith in your dog. Shri Anthji, Visions and Prophecies on Special Christmas Offer. One Week Only.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 00:11:32 (EDT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Vera Subject: and the real commandments? Message:

So cultlike that they now appear childish and ridiculous. Premies probably still cherish them. But your version 1. yep remember MY name not fucking Maharajis 2. You think mind is some seperate evil entity? You believe in hindi fairy tales I guess. Santa claus too? 3. Unlike ALL EV and premie sites ....open discussion (bickering too, so what ) is perfectly ok here. Hard for premies to undestand I guess. Daddy master doesn't like things like that. 4.And I wouldn't be too sure about the Jim thing ....he's one of many ....we are adults here ....unlike premies we don't need a father figure anymore. I like and respect Jim ....but if he tried to LEAD me? Give me a break please. 5. I wish EV staff would just walk away and leave Mr Rawat to defend himself.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 23:53:17 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Vera Subject: Cute but not quite cute enough Message:

In view of recent developments, there have been some minor changes to the Five Commandments: To start with, who the hell needs commandments of all things??! I mean, like really! 1. Constantly deprogram, but remember your name. This just simply isn't funny. Like not at all. Beside, for real effect it should be a 'commandment' that includes some real mind-fucking bullshit such as the deadly consequences of not doing what you're told. Remember? Sure you do. 2. Never doubt leaving room for your mind. An absolute essential in all but the most restrictive environs world-wide. Your mind, honey, is where it's at. 3. Never delay in attending the forum. Don't be silly. 4. Always have faith in Jim. Dumb. Of course I'm flattered but dumb nonetheless. The fifth Commandment has now been set aside for Amaroo Management alone: 5. Do not put off till tomorrow staff who can be put off today. Dumber! Yours in synchronization, THE FIVE COMMANDMENTS TEAM. ??

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 01:52:29 (EDT) From: Vera Email: None To: Jim Subject: Humor (Webster's dictionary, page 593)) Message:

'The faculty of perceiving what is ludicrous or amusing.' Read the post again chaps - and CHILL!

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 05:28:38 (EST) From: AJW Email: None To: Vera Subject: It's the way you tell them Vera. (nt) Message:

How many Taliban does it take to change a lightbulb? Ten. One to put in the new bulb. Nine to avenge the death of the old one. Anth the infidel. (I lied about the (nt).

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 01:59:34 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Vera Subject: Re: Humor (Webster's dictionary, page 593)) Message:

Sorry, Vera. My mistake all 'round. You know what they say......

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 18:57:42 (EDT) From: Repost from Lifes Grate Email: gkl1@techline.com To: All Subject: marji is da cookie monsta Message:

Going into marji.com website is like agreeing to strip yerself naked and allow a voyeur-spy implanted in yer own computer. I don't like websites with cookies, and fascist terms of endearment like mandated cookies and having to inform marji.com about any transfer of yer own personal computer is strictly lunatic bull ladus. just illustrates how gurudumb is like da realm of control freakdom to da nth degwee. what a turnoff - and yet another drip for many awweddy awakening people... e.r. 'Site Access Requirement Access to this site requires that you have 'cookies' enabled on your browser. Note: Cookies are harmless to your computer and do NOT compromise your privacy in any way or manner.' = bull ladus! m's brand of cookies Do compromise your privacy -- duh. 'I don't get it, don't they want people to get knowledge?' Bingo! nah, see, that's da scam, da front - we thought the mission was to help spread k. to millions of people, so there'd be peace on earth. Y'know, like 'da lion and da lamb shall live together in da pwomised land', etc. But it's actually about da moola cash cow machine from dat gwatitude of da true believers, and da real appreciation is da rawat family bank accounts' appreciation, toys, and holdings. jes think if hundreds of millions of dollars had really been totally spent on spreading da meditation techs, and/or wid premies everywhere sharing their k. freely with interested people - Free, no strings attached. We didn't need no stinkin jets, yachts, mansions, after all. the majority of pwemmies were poor young adults, after all, way back when. how many young people in da West are flocking to k. and marji these days? hahaha. lotsa dose old pwemmies sacrificed, and sacrificed some more, even when they had practically nothing left fer themselves [or der families]. who made all the funding and pwopagation possible? da pwemmies! And Who brought all dose aspirins to da progwams and events? It's always been da long-thuffering pwemmies, Not marji. But like any corrupt, megalomaniacal or incompetent CEO, da buck never stops wid him ['cept fer da green bucks] - he always passing da buck when it comes to pwoblems of his very own creation [including dat roller coaster of revisionist rugu and cult concepts, and dose constant org and money pwoblems,etc.]. Why are dere always funding problems, with such a small paid staff and still no apparent org 'assets'? 'Cause marji and family are mainlining dat money right into der greedy veins; dat money pays fer the tens of thousands of dollars he spends on hisself each month, fer dat huge gas-guzzling luxury plane dat nobody else uses, dat big yacht dat nobody else uses, dat helicopter dat noone else uses, dose mansions dat nobody but rawats control, dose customized golden bath fixtures, dose biannual keeping-up-with-Bill Gates exorbitant and wasteful jet plane projects [when each of dose customized jets was designed/engineered to last at least 20-25 years!]. No, He always be blaming da pwemmies and his own org, which he personally controls to da nth degwee - cleverly and dishonestly shifting attention away from him [and thereby avoiding justifiable criticism] - dat concept-maker, da originator and CEO of dose very pwoblems. No, he disses and dehumanizes da pwemmies, and he has even called them his chained dogs [which he thinks are stupid animals,btw - not very nice fer anybody's massa]; meanwhile, He always talking in worshipful tones about da one true Perfect Massa, dat icon of humility in dis world. Well, whatever humility he may have had, he lost a long long time ago - maybe puberty. Da person running EV and pwemmies into debt has always been marji hisself. Now He jus be an udder fallen rugu [they be so numerous these days] -- drowning in da ocean of da maya of gross materialism addiction and megalomania. 'I don't get it, don't they want people to get knowledge?' How many people in Latin America, Africa, and Asia have Dish satellite dishes and compatibility? How many even have electwicity, let alone televisions? No, da broadcasts are aimed at da Western nations, where da money comes from. 99% of all donations come from NAmerica and Europe. see, it's about power and money - just fer marji and his biological fam. That's da drain, da sewer where most of dat money from fundraising has been diverted and gone. trying to pull da shades over our eyes - pulling up da same vid clips of Cote d'Ivoire, Mauritius, etc., dose thousands of 'premies' in India, many of whom have 4-5 other rugus, too [hedging their spiritual bets, perhaps]. where does dat pwopagation really happen? mostly in dose countries where more people are illiterate, superstitious, steeped in medieval ruguism, susceptible, where free events with electricity, videos, and music are like bigtime entertainment. it's all for show - and chart numbers. ok, what's next - marji infomercials in da West? just like da Dianetics bait on da tele, or Anthony Robbins, Elizabeth Clare Prophet, or da BLT club or Trinity broadcasting. hey, if we had had an internet back in da 70s, we coulda figured a lotta tings out way back when, and just networked ourselves, spread da meditation techs ourselves [if we wanted], el cheapo, with no strings attached to a greedy medieval rugu despot and his parasitic family, no Rolls Royces [like da Rajneesh], Mercedes, or limos, no royal and presidential suites, no draining our pockets and energies dry, no slave labour, no quitting jobs and hightailing it to every festival like he instructed us to, fer a spoiled rotten dude whose humble idea of making his name more casual was to call himself 'Great King Sir' [aka maharaji], instead of just Prem or Prem Rawat or Mr. Rawat. Such a control freak - you are actually instructed to hafta refer to him surreptitiously as da 'Speaker' or da 'client' [hush,hush] in dealing with venues, hotels, airport facilities, etc., as if he were da Pwesident of America and you're da secwet soivice. Do you know how put-off major facilities get when you won't even tell them the name of the person they're holding a floor of suites for and/or a huge hall? It's just too bleepin weird, fer starters. den playing off all dose places against each other and cancelling at da last minute, as marji plays capricious primadonna with hundreds of people, selfishly and egotistically jerking da chains of pwemmies and non-pwemmies alike, and simultaneously playing his patently disrespectul and obnoxious game with 3-4 cities pitted against each other for da same exact dates, with lil 'invitations' he often initiates hisself through da org grapevine [even then dere's da formality of da community Invitation - so he kin say he 'accepted' dat 'invitation']. Jerking people around - pulling der chains, again and again and again. then, blaming them, for his own screwups and directions. sending Davids Adolf Schmidt or Mankoff or dat monotonous Yoram Weiss to hit up pwemmies for millions, ever time marji has blown too much of da church moola on hisself or some inane project. notice how Yoram never says anything of substance for da first 30 minutes, just 'how beautiful' it all is and how marji has given us 'such an opportunity', and then finally da clincher -- urgent: send more money now, sign up as a sponsor, automatic withdrawals, estate gifts, etc.. dis is da year, NAmerica falling offa da map, etc. we got this project in Australia, etc. notice da schizophrenic split personality of marji and da cult in India vs da West, but da not-so-veiled hints [instrumental aarti, covert toe-jam kissing] still of dat Living Lardship dat divine incarnation dat Perfect Massa who must be perfect or he is Not da massa - not a leaf moves without da massa knowing, ya can't come w/o da Massa, etc etc etc... btw, How many sane people constantly talk about themselves in da 3rd person, and make lil allusions and analogies that somehow imply they are God or at least your connection to God or da one livin messiah empowered on earth connected with your everlasting salvation? e.g. eiydhiwnay So, 'cookies'? we don't need no stinkin' cookies! (cept maybe organic oatmeal ones with raisins) [or smartcards, eider, fer dat matter]. No, marji is dat cookie monsta incarnate. perhaps there are actually some people who enjoy the masochism of being subhuman 'dogs' on a Massa's leash. 'Dog's chain -- dog wants to go there, he is free to go there. When he sees him there, master does like that (pulls on chain). So you can be -- that is just if you are doing meditation regularly. See, dog thinks that 'Yes, I am free. Now I can run.' He runs, but chain is there; master pulls. Yes?' - Prem Rawat aka Maharaji 'The servant is his Master's dog.' - Shri Hans Rawat We are human beings, not dogs, not created inferior to marji or his greedy clan. 'I don't get it, don't they want people to get knowledge?' Nah, it's about accumulating money and power - fer miragey. If I'm somehow mistaken, then I challenge miragey to prove otherwise. But first - hey, yo, Mr. Prem Rawat [yeah, you]: Move out of the mansions premies paid for, sell all the cars, planes, yacht, etc. and give All the proceeds to a legit audited non-profit 501c3, with a board of directors elected annually and democratically by all the PWKs, a non-profit org and board held publicly and legally accountable, with complete quarterly financial disclosures available for inspection by all pwks and the public -- y'know, like a normal, reputable, 'respectable' non-profit organization. Second, publicly announce that you Prem Rawat are Not a divine avatar or messiah, or the superior power in person, that you do not save people at the moment of death, that you do Not hear their prayers, that these meditation techniques are not a monopoly of yours, that you are not a lamp magically lighting other already lit lamps at the time of initiation [or otherwise], that you will fly economically on the same commercial airlines that your students have for 30 years, and that you are setting up a multi-million dollar fund for the treatment [by an independent health service] of all those persons who have been abused or harmed by your personality cult. Third, Prem, admit that you grossly abused spiritual traditions and beliefs for your own personal greed and material gain. And then, Prem, get on your knees in front of all the premies on the dish satellite network around the world, and apologize for your lies and misdeeds and deceptions, and then retire/resign/abdicate [without appointing a successor], and spend the rest of your life in meditation and/or prayer. Then, and only then, will you have finally shown some personal integrity. It could be worse, after all, Prem. You might end up like Jim Bakker did... so, time to 'fess up and practice what you preach: NO cheat, no deceit. [end of message to prem rawat] OK, care fer some cookies, dear? now, how bout a lil milk of human kindness, 'cause the truth hurts, in this case. peace and lentils, PS I invested almost 30 years of my life in marji's trip. I do think meditation has its points. But the rest of that materialist rugu power trip is bull ladus, and a trap for innocent, sincere people. May da universal energy bless, enlighten, and preserve all da pwks and aspirins and ex-prems and their families alike.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:18:35 (EDT) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: All Subject: The Religion of Elvis Message:

This might be slightly Off Topic but it goes to show that a religion can be created for whatever reason or entity one desires. Anth posted something below about Cloning Elvis, these people (whom I met) have taken Elvis to a whole new level The Church is in an upstairs loft, complete with Altar abounding with pictures and statues of Elvis (the tackier the better it seems). Services are performed impromtu, or whenever enough people show up at the same time, hymnals are Elvis Songs, lead by an Elvis impersonator preacher. It all seems quite tongue in cheek, but there is a definate underlying fervor that goes to the spirit of the whole thing being that Elvis is God and he sacrificed himself for humanity. The place really was a hoot, too bizarre for most folks to take seriously I think. They will host/conduct weddings, both legal and pretend, the latter comes with a cigar band wedding ring for a nominal fee. I was reading through the Scientolgy Cac site, and I happened upon David Bird a UK citizen, he said a few really good things about religion, the quote I liked best was 'Society without religion is like a maniac without a chainsaw' This church of Elvis is basically harmless in that vein, It deems more a parody of a religion, you have the maniac's, but it is so zany that there is no chainsaw to rip ones spirit, it is just wacky. I just thought this was funny, I hope you get a laugh as well [ Page Link ]

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:24:03 (EDT) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: Link for above post. sorry [nt] Message:

[ Page Link ]

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:27:45 (EDT) From: B.Smith Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: Re: Link for above post. sorry Message:

http://www.churchofelvis.com/ [ Elvis ]

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 14:48:03 (EDT) From: DesertWoman Email: desertwoman42@hotmail.com To: All Subject: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge Message:

Hi ex premies and premies, I have spent a while this morning reading some of the posts on this forum. All's I can say is that I love Maharaji very much. Never in my life could I have dreamed up the experiences that I have had while practicing. I have been taken to a very beautiful place inside myself that I would never have known had I not received Knowledge. It's understandable that people (premie or ex) have problems with other people (again premie or ex). That's just normal human stuff. You'll always come across power trips and ego when you are dealing with other human beings. And, I acknowledge that there were a lot of head trips back when I received Knowledge in 1980. A LOT of head trips. But I didn't pay attention to the them and the other premies because that's not why I received Knowledge. I had no interest in joining a club. I heard about M and immediately felt that it was something I needed to experience for myself and it was the most beautiful feeling I had ever had. Please don't flame me for my post. I just wanted to say that I love Maharaji very, very much. I am grateful for the 20 years plus that I have had Knowledge. There have been times when I stopped practicing, but even during those times, I always loved him for giving me the gift of Knowledge. Anyways, I am not here to convert anyone. I'm just saying that if I look honestly at my experience and look ONLY at my experience (not what other people think or say) that I am really happy and grateful that I am still practicing and having a ball being alive. Respectfully, Desertwoman

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 23:56:11 (EST) From: Vicki Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge Message:

I think a part of me will always love Maharaji and knowledge, at least what I thought was Maharaji and knowledge. I came in 1974 at the age of 21. It's now 2001. I've lived more than half my life with the world of knowledge. Tonight I listened to a recent CD of knowledge songs, not by my doing, but then became so intrigued, listened longer. I spend a great deal of time driving and always had a knowledge song tape or one of Maharaji speaking. Always. Without exception, when I was alone. Tonight, I realized how these songs and tapes kept me feeling I was in that devotion. In that love. So that was my life. Practicing knowledge everyday after saying a heartfelt prayer of devotiion to Maharaji. Listening to the music. Seeing his picture everyday, hundreds of times in a day, whenever I passed by where it was hanging in my kitchen. I kept it there because I liked having that reference point for whatever was happening in my day, good or bad. I went to local video events, satellite events, and the big events where Maharaji was, when I could afford it or not and convince myself to fly, which I hate more than anything. I went early when I could, paying for a hotel room to do service for however many days before an event I was needed for my little service. I did service in my community. In short, I was a poster premie. That was all before. Before I found out there were such things as Pam's. Before I found out that the clean, beautiful image of Maharaji, Elan Vital, knowledge, his squeeky clean family and most of all, himself, were not the pristine images they conveyed. And my world of knowledge was shattered. My inner self was shattered. I was shattered. Because I had believed it all. Every speck. So this is what the dilemma is. The world that shattered was not one I made up or fabricated. It was made, and is still being made to present to people with knowledge and without, that this is the beauty to be had. Of course it's easy to fall in love with all this. It's such a beautiful place to be in. But it's just a fairytale. I wouldn't have minded seeing the other side of Maharaji's world from the beginning. I wouldn't have minded knowing about the sex, drugs, money games,child abuse, yoga techniques, being thought of as a loser for not giving large sums of money when I had it. In short, I wouldn't have minded at all. But I didn't get that chance. I was duped. Everyone who believes the image machine of Elan Vital, Visions, the instructors,the family and Maharaji's presentations of himself in this format with his knowledge, is duped. And I might not have decided to live over half my life with this knowledge and perfect master. But I didn't get the chance. None of us did. So will I forever love the love that I felt as devotion? Yes. Will I forever love the Maharaji and the knowledge that were presented to me in a package deal? Yes. Will I ever believe that it was genuine except for what was already inside of me? No. It's impossible. After learning what really goes on behind the scenes, what went on to those who were abused and is still going on, no. But believe me, there are days when I wished it wasn't a fairytale. Like when my child learned there wasn't a Santa Clause. Accepted with the wisdom of a six year old then promptly dismissed as too impossible to live with, because that meant there would be no Easter Bunny or toothfairy. Too painful. Easier to believe than have to face the truth. But of course the parents who stuffed red pants, stuck them in boots, put them in a fireplace with real snow on the hearth and snapped the camera left in the Santa trap, well, who was to blame really? We created such a reality of Santa Clause complete with hay on the roof for the reindeers. So do I flame your post? No. I understand your post. It's easy to love Maharaji and the knowledge as it is presented. It's a different story when one learns the facts.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 17:32:25 (EST) From: Larkin Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: Is that what it's REALLY like. for you.?? Message:

ie., day to day? Ballad of Premie ji Premie ji wakes lonely in the troubled twilight Fumbles to see light, gives up and sleeps again Premie ji hangs on in quiet desperation Heard the age is dawning but they don’t say when... Dreams of days of hopes and plans and good companions Days lost deep in Maya's spell - but then again... Premie ji hangs on in quiet desperation Meddies, coffee, kids to school, and then and then... Heart was where the home was, where your old pals gathered Friends she lost while following The One True Way Premie ji hangs on in quiet desperation 'Last laugh will be mine...' her friends had heard her say.. Heart’s a place known only to the Lord's devotee Find the truth and feel your own heart newly born Premie ji hangs on in quiet desperation Why, please, won't my heart wake up at crack of dawn? Kids up watching TV as they scream blue murder Mummy - want some juice - and Kelly's kicking me! Premie ji hangs on in quiet desperation Just two minutes bliss to set her soul-bird free.. Bliss was never there when bliss was sorely needed Times of grieving, times of needing love and light Premie ji prays now in quiet desperation: Please don't tell me it was all a crock of shite... Seen it, lived it, done it; there's no liberation Gonna chase my friends up that I lost back when Premie ji gives up in sudden desperation: Let heaven go to hell - I want my life again. [ More of similar.. ]

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 14:44:59 (EST) From: such Email: bananas@friedatleast.org/y To: DesertWoman Subject: Re:I love Maharajiavelli and HIS GeneralLedger.LOL [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 12:27:55 (EST) From: Jerry Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: Well, bully for you Message:

There have been times when I stopped practicing, but even during those times, I always loved him for giving me the gift of Knowledge. This is what I can never understand. If it was so beautiful, why did you stop practicing? Usually, what holds somebody back from something is that there's nothing there, not that something beautiful is to be had. Baffling.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 04:07:42 (EST) From: AJW Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: Hey Desert Woman . Message:

Hi Desert Woman, In your post, you said, 'I'm just saying that if I look honestly at my experience and look ONLY at my experience (not what other people think or say)'. I think this is absolutely the right attitude to this trip. However, I suspect that you're not simply looking at your experience without being influenced by what other people say. I'm thinking of one person in particular- Captain Rawat. Let's look at what happens when you poke yourself in the eye. (Hang on I'll do it.) I see colours, yellow, white etc. Just like I did when I was a believer.) I assume when you do this, you believe you are, 'experiencing the energy within,' or something, that the light is somehow 'divine' (as we used to call it once). You believe that when you do the techniques you are experiencing something called 'Knowledge', which is the life force. This is bullshit Desert Woman. It's just patterns on your retina- unless you believe of course. I suspect you hold other beliefs about what you experience when you stick your thumbs in your ears, stick your tongue back, or follow your breath. I suspect you also believe Rawat is something called 'Perfect Master'. Shit, you may even believe he's latest in a line which included Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed. So, when you come here and tell us that everything is based on your personal experience, I think you should take your own advice and really be objective about what happens to you when you give yourself a poke. Anth, who used to believe all that bullshit once too.

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Date: Mon, Oct 29, 2001 at 02:32:21 (EST) From: Jethro Email: None To: AJW Subject: Re: Hey Desert Woman . Message:

When I was given the service of being propagation coorditor, I took the service very seriously and went to visit many spiritual and non-spiritual grgroups. I can remember at least 5 groups that taught the techinique(called number one or 'light'), including one atheist who practiced. (Thre were also groups who taugh the same techinques). They appeared as confident as premies in their talking about their excperiences, but of course I understood that it was just a test from m and it was a trick of mind that is trying to fool us. know warrimean luv to Dot Jethro

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 14:14:45 (EST) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: AJW Subject: This is really interesting Anth Message:

That you would mention the old eye poking technique being totally related to the optic nerve. Well, I have reason to believe that it is a mostly a physical thing and my information comes from a good source. I play in a band with a blind drummer, just this very week at rehearsal I asked him about that very thing. I am a close enough friend to ask him about the inner experience of being blind and I asked could he see energy or light patterns within? His answer was an emphatic no! he went on to explain that the experience of blindness was like standing in front of a black wall, with nothing on it no images, no sparks, no flashes, nothing. He said that he perceives his environment through sound mainly, and feeling. He stated that he does not actually have better hearing but that he just listens more intently on what is going on around him and that he has a well developed sense of space. I pressed him further to reveal his inner experience, was there anything at all going on, maybe even a tiny glimmer inside, just a little blip on the screen every once in a while. Again No, Nothing, Nada, so I told him about this mediation experience called the light technique and it requires pressure on the eyes and one will experience these colors and flashes and light within etc. I asked him if that kind of pressure or stimulation on the eyeballs or forehead would manifest this sort of inner experience. He laughed out loud at that one, he said that for years he had been to doctor after doctor, who had examined every square inch of his head, even scanned his brianwaves plus he had been poked, proded and literally pricked in the eyeballs. All in the practice of good science and medicine to stimulate some sort of visual response either inner or outer. The result, Nothing, he is blind, and that is all there is to it. He said 'if all that one had to do to see light was believe real hard in techniques and apply pressure he would have been bathed in it by now'. He went on to say, that he was born 3 months premature, and that he had been given too much oxygen in the incubator and hence destroyed his optic nerves and eye muscle functions. 'I do not have functioning optic nerves' he said 'if I did maybe I would know of what you are describing'. 'But I do not, there is nothing in there of what you define as light'. 'I sense, I feel, I hear, I build a frame of my surroundings based on routines and steps traced mentally and that is how I quickly adapt to getting around in my enviornment, but I do not see anything at all from a visual standpoint inside or out'. " It is like looking at a black, blank wall' he reiterated. I found this conversation most interesting, considering what I was told by the mahatma's (and perpetrated by the cult) about blind men being able to see this light, deaf people hearing the music. It seems from my blind friends first hand accounting that this is not the case, it is simply not true. What it also reveals is that this business of poking oneselves eyes is a physically stimulated experience dependent on working optical nerves. Nothing to do with a spiritual experience whatsoever contary to cult thought. Also a case could be made for someone who is blind who may still have a optic nerve in tact yet be blind for other physical reasons, therefore it could be argued that they may in fact stimulate the light factor with some success I suppose. This particular blind mans accounting of what happens within is quite revealing I think when one wants to argue personal experience. Quite revealing indeed,

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 15:27:56 (EST) From: PatD Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: Re: This is really interesting Anth Message:

I remember several yrs ago there was a spoof news comedy on BBC radio where current events would have the piss taken . This was going on the background with people round so I wasn't listening , but briefly tuned into a sketch about people going blind as a result of pressing their eyeballs under the instruction of ....didn't catch it . Anybody know ? At the time I shrugged it off , being a premie ; in any case I never used to press mine , maybe that's why I never realised k .

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 01:58:52 (EDT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: You've convinced me. Message:

Well who can argue with that. Case closed, I guess.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 23:23:11 (EDT) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: It takes more than Love Message:

There is honesty, and with out honesty and truth, love rings hollow. You sound like me just a few months ago Desert Woman, I can relate to the aquiescent tone of your post, I too had massaged myself into a submissive It's Ok, I'm Ok, Maharaji is Ok, I do not want to rock my world or change anyone or anything. I was perfectly content to turn my head and look the other way. This all well and good as long as you want to remain powerless and stay in a dishonest dysfunctional relationship. The problem is I do not get from you that you will settle for the pollyanna routine for the next 20 years, why? Because I sense an independant free spirit, a seeker of truth. I had to look deep into your post to get that from you, but what clued me was the take you had on head trips and how you did not pay attention to them. Well, this whole thing has been nothing more than one big head trip and even though you probably do not believe that now, I challenge you to put your faith to the test and then see. I came to knowledge and Maharaji in search of the 'truth' myself, Oh yeah, I got bits and pieces of this thing called knowledge but the truth turns out that these are age old meditation techniques that will work without him or from any other source just as well. Actually the techniques work better without him because I am free to own my own experience because I do not have this master, servant concept getting in my way, now I have no such strings attached. No guilt either ...... Maharaji does not own the techniques nor is he responsible for the experience you get from them. These are just a few truths that I have discovered that were not revealed within the confines of the cult (or group) as you describe it. There are many others, and I do hope that you have the courage to pursue the rest of the story. By the way you do not have to not love maharaji to find out the facts, you just have to love yourself enough to want to know the truth. You will have to assemble the pieces from here DW, and a good place to start is on the EPO site, there is a wealth of information there to help you make an informed decision on the real truth about the cult and M. You really do owe it to yourself, what are you going to dedicate the next 20 years to? If you care to discuss this offline, let me know and I will give you my email address. Sincerely, Brian Smith [ EPO ]

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 17:17:17 (EST) From: Chuck S. Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: Great Post! Message:

I wanted to say something sympathic to DW, as her reasoning sounded all too familiar. But I couldn't have said anything better than you did. I heartily agree! I hope DW follows up with EPO, there is lots of info there, things that were always hidden from premies.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 20:40:50 (EST) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: Chuck S. Subject: Thank You Chuck Message:

As Jim had indicated earlier, I just wanted to strike a different tone of communication with the desert woman to get a dialogue going. Time will tell but I really do think that this is a person who can be reasoned with and possibly cut the cult strings. That is why I reached out sympathetically, made myself available to talk through this thing with her if she chooses to do so. I think that working with new people and being accessable in whatever way I can be, is my primary reason for being here. I know that I could not have exited on my own without the help and dialogue of many of you here. You and Pat played an immense role in my liberation, but there are many others as well. We have such a wide and diverse collection of individuals here we should be able to find a voice amongst us to answer all newcomers. This website is an important tool to facilitate the whole, complete truth about maharaji and the cult. There is no other place quite like this for that exclusive purpose, I am just glad that this forum exists.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 22:52:15 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: If you don't mind, this calls for cq Message:

Chris, Would you please demonstrate the proper tone in communicating with Desertwoman? I noticed that Joe was a little sarcastic. Deborah asked a lot of questions -- perhaps one too many? -- and Rick was downright dismissive. Me? I was afraid to say anything much knowing how well you've got my number as an abusive attack dog. So how about it, Chris? Say hi to Desertwoman, why don't you?

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 20:59:03 (EDT) From: Deborah Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge, NOT :| Message:

Hi ex premies and premies, I have spent a while this morning reading some of the posts on this forum. All's I can say is that I love Maharaji very much. Never in my life could I have dreamed up the experiences that I have had while practicing. I have been taken to a very beautiful place inside myself that I would never have known had I not received Knowledge. It's understandable that people (premie or ex) have problems with other people (again premie or ex). That's just normal human stuff. You'll always come across power trips and ego when you are dealing with other human beings. And, I acknowledge that there were a lot of head trips back when I received Knowledge in 1980. A LOT of head trips. But I didn't pay attention to the them and the other premies because that's not why I received Knowledge. I had no interest in joining a club. I heard about M and immediately felt that it was something I needed to experience for myself and it was the most beautiful feeling I had ever had. Please don't flame me for my post. I just wanted to say that I love Maharaji very, very much. I am grateful for the 20 years plus that I have had Knowledge. There have been times when I stopped practicing, but even during those times, I always loved him for giving me the gift of Knowledge. Anyways, I am not here to convert anyone. I'm just saying that if I look honestly at my experience and look ONLY at my experience (not what other people think or say) that I am really happy and grateful that I am still practicing and having a ball being alive. Respectfully, Desertwoman --- Hi DW: Nice of you to drop by. I'll respondd to your post by italicizing and commenting on your post. I have spent a while this morning reading some of the posts on this forum. Glad you took some time to familiarize yourself. Although, the forum's flavour changes everyday. Is this your first time here? All's I can say is that I love Maharaji very much. Once you leave the cult, you'll have lots of things to say. No more CULT thought police telling you how or what to think. Never in my life could I have dreamed up the experiences that I have had while practicing. Oh sure, not only CAN you dream them up, you did. I have been taken to a very beautiful place inside myself that I would never have known had I not received Knowledge. DW, define taken. This is a very co-dependant term. Are you implying that the Maharaji omniscient dude that lives in Malibu and your heart takes you there. It's understandable that people (premie or ex) have problems with other people (again premie or ex). Oh Oh! Here we go! Typical response from new people is to assume that there is something WRONG but that it is not Maha nor does it have anything to do with Maha. WE're having problems with EV, unhappy with the organization. DW, this is NOT the problem at all. Why is so hard to suggest to your brain that 'there may be something WRONG with Maha!' That's just normal human stuff. As opposed to normal unhuman stuff? Aren't we assuming that we are humans? You'll always come across power trips and ego when you are dealing with other human beings. We might come across power trips and ego (haven't heard that concept in years) with beings from another planet ;) Again, why do premies have to insert the word 'human' and 'real world'. There is a semantic duality set up in your very language. Normal people don't see evryday reality as an 'us' vs. 'them'. Well, the Christian cults set up a Jesus vs. Devil duality. These binary oppostions are part of Cult-think indoctrination. And, I acknowledge that there were a lot of head trips back when I received Knowledge in 1980. A LOT of head trips. Actually, I rec'd K in 1980 and there wasn't a whole lot of trips. Not amongst my friends and fellow service freaks. We were, for the most part, a self-policing group. Unusual people didn't get picked for satsang and snubbed away from service and darshan opportunities so that the group retained an homogenized climate. Sure, some people had trips, but those of us who didn't have trips had trips about those that did. And when, you say 'they had trips', what you are unconsciously implying is that there was 'a real way to experience K and M' a synchronized experience. That's why other people who had 'trips' were ex-communicated. They stirred up the repressed ideas of being a premie of Maharaji. Couldn't do that! But I didn't pay attention to the them and the other premies because that's not why I received Knowledge. Sounds reasonable. I didn't pay attention to them either for the same reason. I had no interest in joining a club. You didn't! You joined a Cult. Nothing wrong with joining a club. I heard about M and immediately felt that it was something I needed to experience for myself and it was the most beautiful feeling I had ever had. We are all in the same boat. Please don't flame me for my post. Hope you don't consider this commentary flaming. I just wanted to say that I love Maharaji very, very much. Yeah! Heard. I am grateful for the 20 years plus that I have had Knowledge. *Would you be greatful to realize that you were in a cult for all those years? * Would you be greatful to find out all the sick, criminal, and immoral things that Maha has done? * Would you be greatful to KNOW that the Mahatmas have screwed up and on occasion sexually violated premies and took advantage of our spiritual naiviety? * Would you be greatful to Maha and the whole Rawat family for getting extremely wealthy on the backs of trusting and naive premies? * Would you be greatful to FIND OUT that Sat Gurus and revealing these techniques come a dime-a-dozen in India and that you could have made other decisions and pursued other goals in your life? I could on, but I won't. There have been times when I stopped practicing, but even during those times, I always loved him for giving me the gift of Knowledge. DW, You have been sheltered by The Bad News about Maha, so I understand why you would still love him in when Not practicing, but Maha DIDN't give you anything. You need to get a link to the truth about K-techniques that Pat:C) put together. Anyways, I am not here to convert anyone. Sweet! But don't worry about our permanant sourness, we're beyond hope for re-conversion. I'm just saying that if I look honestly at my experience and look ONLY at my experience (not what other people think or say) that I am really happy and grateful that I am still practicing and having a ball being alive. Read Jim's post. Nice of you to drop by, the above is food for thought. You're feedback is welcomed. p.s. Glad you're enjoying your life Deborah

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 12:36:24 (EST) From: silvia Email: None To: Deborah Subject: ()) good post (nt) Message:

())

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 05:19:56 (EST) From: Tim G Email: None To: Deborah Subject: Great Post Deborah. nt Message:

yipee

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 21:11:54 (EDT) From: Selene Email: None To: Deborah Subject: hey Deb you are right Message:

I could not be converted ever again. hmm. Don't laugh, it's just hit me how much difference a few years makes. Still owe you and a few others email. Thanks for your patience.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 20:18:30 (EDT) From: Rick Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge Message:

You say that if you look honestly at your experience that you are happy and grateful that you're still practicing and having a ball being alive. When someone asks you about your experience you're unable to say anything. And when people here question the source of your experience, you shut down. Consequently, you are really unqualified to talk about your experience. You can't say what it is in any way, shape or form. You can't explain how you know where it comes from. And you can't show any reason why someone would believe that your supposed experience is coming from Maharaji. Yet you say it as though anyone here is going to do anything but dismiss you. Your words mean absolutely nothing if they aren't important. And if they are important you can explain what you mean so others can understand you. Otherwise you're just blathering and not being honest at all. If you're honest you can explain what you mean.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:27:56 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: You 'love' Maharaji??? Message:

All's I can say is that I love Maharaji very much. Never in my life could I have dreamed up the experiences that I have had while practicing. I have been taken to a very beautiful place inside myself that I would never have known had I not received Knowledge. Have you actually met Maharaji personally? How well do you know him? Have you spent time hanging out with him at the Mall or something? Do you know his personality? If not, how can you say you 'love' someone you don't know? Is this akin to the 'love' one has for a rock star, author, etc.? What do you think Maharaji has to do with the 'beautiful experience' you have? Do you think if you stopped loving him or stopped paying any attention to him that you wouldn't have the 'beautiful experience' anymore? Many of us have also had the 'beautiful experience' and we continue to have it, because we have realize that not only does the 'beautiful experience' have absolutely nothing to do with Maharaji, and is due to your own faith and belief (and maybe, on occasion, a group high), but that following Maharaji and his truncated belief system is stagnating and restrictive to human growth, and because, actually, Maharaji isn't anything like he appears on stage. He's taking you for a ride. I know you don't want to believe that. I didn't either, but the sooner you figure it out, the better off you will be.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:52:53 (EDT) From: Tim G Email: timgitti@indigo'ie To: DesertWoman Subject: Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge Message:

Hi Desertwoman, I'm having a ball too, in fact a much deeper experience of life since I left in that my horizons are much broader and my world is not divided up into those that have the 'secret' and those that don't. I am more prepared to approach ethical and moral questions than when I was selfishly cocooned in the 'world of Maharaji' which I see to be a very self centred world. I would like to think that I have grown up a bit and am not reliant on an 'imaginary friend' which is what M is. What is striking about your post is the very common premie justification that the downside is all due to 'people having problems with other people'.From where you stand it seems to be impossible for you to accept the strong evidence that M was and is responsible for his 'mission' and his mistakes, Not only that . but there is strong evidence pointing to a very different character than the one you love. I have personally seen the abusive side of him. I left partly because of the ugly character of the man which didn't at all square with what he preached. But there you go. Each to their own. regards from WestCork man Tim

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 19:00:49 (EDT) From: Zelda Email: None To: Tim G Subject: from one dw to another Message:

those experiences are real . the codependance on maraji as the suppllier of the grace or the techniques is NOT. in fact, the experiences get deeper and more profound once you denounce the emotional tether to Maraji. those techniques are not his to give and he has no right to your eternal gratitiude. if you want to attribute gratitude - give it to the source of the experinces- which is not maraji. Mariji insinuates himself into a position to 'recieve'whatever gratitiude or love you feel. THAT IS HIS SCAM acknowledge that you learned the techniques from him and also acknowledge that you could have recieved them in other places. the grace comes from the source. please dont reply to this wishing you starry nights Zelda

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 20:02:54 (EST) From: salam Email: None To: Zelda Subject: Re: from one dw to another Message:

I was told to say hello :)

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 23:15:18 (EST) From: Zeld Email: None To: salam Subject: Re: from one dw to another Message:

how nice . hi to you too. I like reading you but am not posting much .... :-}

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 23:39:49 (EST) From: salam Email: None To: Zeld Subject: Re: from one dw to another Message:

thank you. so how about that Stonor? Booooooo.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:01:09 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge Message:

Anyways, I am not here to convert anyone. I'm just saying that if I look honestly at my experience and look ONLY at my experience (not what other people think or say) that I am really happy and grateful that I am still practicing and having a ball being alive. How do you 'look' at your experience? That's the question. To start with, what is it? Maharaji originally sold it as a direct experience of God within. Better, it was the key to liberation from the supposed cycle of birth and death. It was the 'antidote to your mind' and the pathway to 'God Realization'. Do you believe any of this?

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:06:38 (EDT) From: DesertWoman Email: desertwoman42@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge Message:

I don't know how to explain the experience. And, I don't think it matters or rather that it isn't important to try to put it into words. It is the most private, inner feeling I have ever had. All's I know is that it is beautiful. Forget the other people and their interpretations...for me, I am in this for one reason - and that is to feel that something - sorry, can't come up with the words. But that 'something' makes me happy. Thank you, by the way, for not slamming me for posting my feelings. I saw the note from the moderator saying that it was OK to truthfully express oneself, so I thought that might include me expressing something positive, even in the midst of an ex-premie site. DW Edit to add: I guess what I am trying to say is that all's that matters to me is what *I* think and experience about Maharaji and Knowledge. It's just like anything else in this life: you gotta trust yourself and your experience before you put faith in what someone else says.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 04:37:06 (EST) From: AJW Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: 'Inner feeling'? Message:

You mention 'inner feeling'. Are there any feeling we have which are outside ourselves? Or are you talking about inserting something into your body, or maybe doing something indoors? What's this 'inner feeling' stuff? I think you'll find that your cult cliches turn to sand when you take them outside and show them to anybody. This is why you, 'don't know how to explain your experience.' It's ignorance, not 'Knowledge'. Anth the inner feeling.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:22:36 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge Message:

DW, No problem on the civility. Contrary to what some might say, that's the norm here. On the other hand, as you know, there's a strong consensus here for a number of reasons that Maharaji's a fraud and no good can or does come from knowing him. Many posters here continue to enjoy the techniques. I don't know if there are any ex-premies that still assign such magical powers to them as premies at least used to, however. Here's where things get interesting, though. You write: I don't know how to explain the experience. And, I don't think it matters or rather that it isn't important to try to put it into words. Surely you can see that, despite his teaching that he has no teachings ( agreat and obvious irony in itself), Maharaji has framed the techniques in a very definite conceptual structure: 1) It comes from him. 2) He alone can give it to you. 3) You must never doubt him. 4) He is something called a 'master'. 5) There are such things called 'masters' 6) His father was a 'master' and there have been others, all great and wonderful beings. 7) You must cultivate certain emotional responses to him and the experience (i.e. Gratitude, Appreciation, Clarity) 8) If you continue to enjoy the techniques faithfully it will somehow help you when you die. 9) Maharaji knows what's best for you. He alone is qualified to talk about the techniques. That's why you should want to spend the rest of your life listening to him. Not quesitoning, listening. 10) There is no scientific knowledge worth seeking that could ever shed any light whatsoever (no pun intended) on the 'experience'. 11) Life is a great and wonderful mystery. The only thing you know for sure is that Maharaji is the Master. .... and many, many more. I just saw a program on the brain the other night. A guy with gran mal epilepsy was having these supposedly cosmic experiences whenever his temporal lobes erupted in electrical firestorms. He'd come out crying, 'grateful' and sure he could see God everywhere. Do you think there's any posssibilty that the techniques are nothing more than minor stimulating exercises of the same parts of the brain this guy's enjoying? I'll tell you one thing -- that's not the kind of question Maharaji likes to answer.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:20:31 (EDT) From: Jethro Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge Message:

Okay, you have a good experience. Great! Now what do you think about the fact that maharaji is a paedophille protector(amongst other things)?

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:24:21 (EDT) From: DesertWoman Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge Message:

I don't know since I guess I would have to talk to Maharaji myself about that. I didn't post my message to get into a debate or arguement with anyone. I was just stating my point of view. Maybe I have just jumped into a boiling pot by stating it, but that's OK. Perhaps in retrospect I was stupid to express something like that on an ex-premie site. DW

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 22:33:42 (EDT) From: salam Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge Message:

you're bloody right. What else did you expect? If you say something you have to be prepared to defend it. the more you defend it the more you will be asked to explain and it just go on and on. this happens all the time with premies. but I have lost interest in debating Maharaji and his significance. As far as am concerened, Maharaji is less than a fart in the storm and his presence on this planet is irrelevant. He has nothing to offer and his knowledge is a hoax. He teaches nothing and offers nothing. If there is an experience inside of you as you claim, it has nothing to do with him. Anyone can activate the experience and you don't need a guru for that. So there. I hope you are confused enough. Be good Salam

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:36:19 (EDT) From: Jethro Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: Re: I love Maharaji and his Knowledge Message:

What difference if this is an ex-premie forum or not. I presume that since you have a 'nice experience', it doesn't matter tio youy how he conducts his life.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:33:35 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: Reality check? Message:

I don't know since I guess I would have to talk to Maharaji myself about that. I didn't post my message to get into a debate or arguement with anyone. I was just stating my point of view. Maybe I have just jumped into a boiling pot by stating it, but that's OK. DW --- You came here to the ex-premie forum to post something in Maharaji's favour. If you don't want to discuss it further, fine, but don't tell us you're surprised that people actually challenge you. Remember Socrates on an unexamined life? It was a good one. (Might have been Plato for all I know. One of them, anyway.)

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:32:47 (EDT) From: Barbara Email: None To: DesertWoman Subject: Terminal Paranoia Message:

I think I may have a case of terminal paranoia, but I think DesertWoman's persona is in jest. Jerry? Same browser type. Everything's lookin' fake to me.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:50:13 (EDT) From: Not Jerry - guess again(nt) Email: None To: Barbara Subject: Re: Terminal Paranoia Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:15:33 (EDT) From: Barbara Email: None To: Not Jerry - guess again(nt) Subject: You got me... Message:

I just happen to notice odd browser types, like Gerry (with a 'g') sometimes has Space Bison in his browser type which makes me wonder what the hell Space Bison is, so I remember it. I have an idiot savant memory for weird numbers (you wouldn't believe the mind games I play with numbers I see on license plates etc.). You gonna spill?

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 12:35:00 (EST) From: Jerry Email: None To: Barbara Subject: Is that Gerry or Jerry? Message:

In any event, it isn't me, and I don't think DW is a parody.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 12:55:49 (EST) From: Barbara Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Sorry... Message:

Hi Jerry: Sorry for thinking it was you, although I guess you could say it was a tribute to your imagination, if anything. ;) It seemed like a parody to me because I find it hard to believe that anyone would come here of all places to say that of all things. Guess I was having one of those days where everything looked and sounded like a caricature of itself.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 13:11:35 (EST) From: Jerry Email: None To: Barbara Subject: No problem Message:

It's nice to be thought of :)

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:28:04 (EDT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Barbara Subject: Hi Barbara Message:

Hey there Babs. How are you doing? Good to see you around these parts again. As for the Space Bison, it is a figment of his very active imagination. I want my browser to be a Space Bison too. Love, Marianne

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:39:29 (EDT) From: Barbara, Home on the Range Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Hi Marianne Message:

Yeah, I can see the Space Bison roaming over the virtual Great Plains, where they're safe from being picked off as the trains chug by. Hope all is well with you in the northern Peoples' Republic.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 18:28:39 (EDT) From: gerry Email: None To: Barbara, Home on the Range Subject: ladies, please OT Message:

Hey Barb, I got my Rife machine cookin'

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 11:19:04 (EST) From: Barbara Email: None To: gerry Subject: Cookin' at the Savoy OT Message:

Hi Gerry: That's great, congrats. Are you using it?

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 05:59:45 (EDT) From: Vicki Email: None To: All Subject: Vicodin -OT Message:

This is a public service announcement. Vicodine (sp) when given to some patients, especially the elderly, can have an adverse reaction and cause severe hallucinations. They may start out mildly, causing medical staff to chalk it up to 'confusion'. These hallucinations progress to a sort of dual existence, where longterm memory is overlayed upon present time, complete with visuals. It seems as if the patient has had a stroke or a sudden onset of dementia. It's the vicodine. The symptoms will go away with time and the person remembers nothing. It can be extremely dangerous because these individuals have to be closely monitored or restrained so they don't accidently cause themselves harm, such as pulling out IV's, or thinking they are years younger, thus stronger, than they are. Why am I posting this? Simply because if it could happen to my father in the ICCU of a major hospital and not one staff member or doctor caught it, it can happen to anyone. After asking around, I was told many vicodine stories and they are all similar in hilarity and at the same time seriousness. It is not a well known side effect and this pain reliever seems to be the drug of choice in the medical world at present. Since there are many of us in the same age bracket, our parents probably are too. It's also good to warn anyone near and dear to you to watch for these reactions should you be prescribed this drug. You won't notice your own hallucinations as being abnormal.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 13:29:42 (EDT) From: Peg Email: None To: Vicki Subject: Thanks Vicki! Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:01:14 (EDT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Peg Subject: Here's a link...O/T Message:

Hi Vicky, I was thinking of Viox when you mentioned Vicodin. This link will tell you more about side affects, if you haven't already researched it. Also, isn't Vicodin the drug of choice amoung Hollywood celebs of late? It's very, very addictive. I also looked up Viox, which is prescribed to folks with rheumatoid arthritis. Did you know that the US pharmaceutical companies spent more money on TV and print advertising about their drugs than on Research & Development last year? Folks in the US are continuously price gouged by these companies and their excuse is always ''we spend the money on R&D.'' It also just kills me when I see the drug ads in magazines because the side affects usually are worse than the cure the drug(s) are supposed to provide! I've learned to be an educated patient. I ask all doctors in any situation what their grade point was in med school and details about their credentials. They get pissy about it, but I look at them as MY employees! Love, Cynthia [ Vicodin ]

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Date: Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 23:09:55 (EDT) From: Henrietta Wallaby Email: None To: All Subject: Amaroo: Cutbacks/Booze Message:

Many PWKs lost their fulltime paid/salaried positions today at Amaroo in a major cutback in the Outback. It's sad. They are great people with dedication and pride in their job/service. I am sure it is only time untill the property is donated back to the locals for whatever good use they want. Good on them. Who is going to attend the events there? It is too far away for most PWKs, even those who can afford it. The Aussies couldn't afford to come in April until a deal was made for their $820AU registration fee. There would have been thousands of empty seats at the latest Amaroo event otherwise. How embarrassing. The Amaroo place is a money pit. It serves no purpose regarding 'M's work.' The beautiful 'Knowledge Hall' is rarely used to give knowledge since propagation is at a standstill. The Amaroo project will never be successful commercially as a conference center or as a standalone PWK event venue. It generates little to no business and its staff is shrinking accordingly and permanently. Amaroo is hot, has no amenities and the food stinks...Except for Daya's "Fine Dining Restaurant," everyone's ace up their sleeve for getting close to Maharaji--dinner with him at his restaurant. Except dinner is US$150 plus your booze. It isn't cheap; it's a fundraiser thing, but it is very nice dining. Some of the big boys/girls antied up for five nights all at once in a package deal (free bottle of wine with a package purchase). It's a new, beautiful restaurant built last April. It cost nearly $2 million, yet has been open only five days, ever. Think it will pay for itself sometime soon? Evidently there was a problem getting Maharaji's kids and company out of the bar and out the door by 2 AM every night. By the last night of the Amaroo event, it was 'ordered' that the bar be closed by Midnight, regardless of one's last name, Rawat or otherwise. A couple of them can really drink up, as well as their their young, cool US/Euro friends and respective boyfriends and girlfriends, (cute as heck, the lot). Meeting up with Children of Alcoholics/AA Groups I hope won't be in their future. A few were as smashed as, say, a Derek Harper, and man Aussies' number one indigenous strapping instructor, can put it away -- pots of VB and double cognac rocks. No worries. Mr. H's debauched escapades throughout the continent are now continually coming to light on this very Forum. He earned a lifetime ban from Daya's by puffing on his lit cigar bumbling drunk in the cleaned kitchen, where he was physically removed from the premises for life. How shocking was it to see him back so soon as MC of the four-day event in Amaroo. Totally gross and inappropriate, but for some reason, he's still the man. Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Oy, Oy......Vey. It's a beautiful place, but a total mess down under and will come to an end soon, I figure. G'day. Henrietta

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 22:59:00 (EST) From: Vicki Email: None To: Henrietta Wallaby Subject: Re: Amaroo: Cutbacks/Booze Message:

This just kinda makes me sick. Remember the big worldwide Amaroo fundraising day a couple years ago? Our little community had to rent a hall for that one, because it was soooooooo special with special requirements for such a momentous occasion. And all the premies came and shelled out money, which joined the other donations from around the world. This was all for the infrastructure and to make the grounds more habitable for the event goers, as in necessary facilities. Now I read that two million went for Daya's restaurant.....please tell me it was a birthday present from her dad or 'uncle' Valerio and not out of these premies' pockets, because they couldn't afford to eat in the restaurant they built.

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Date: Mon, Oct 29, 2001 at 03:47:34 (EST) From: CW Email: None To: Vicki Subject: Re: Amaroo: Cutbacks/Booze Message:

Cant believe everything you read. That is just nonsense. Ask for an explanation from the all knowing Henrietta. And the D drinks a fine merlot, is happily married, and does not have any 'controversy' surrounding him regards the fairer sex. I mean this stuff is errant nonsense and you are swallowing it hook ,line and sinker. Perhaps you could also ask how well our little marsupial actually knows D. My guess is she has her own agenda there. Ome thing I can clarify for the broader audience. There are very few 'fulltime' jobs at Amaroo. Jobs are offered leading up to an event. No event, generally no jobs. Does that make sense? The Food was fine and the camping area quite comfortable. I am at a loss to explain the Wallabies viewpoint. Perhaps she was just plain miserable??? So Wallaby,take a few Bex and lie down .It's all OK....

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 08:03:16 (EST) From: CW Email: None To: Henrietta Wallaby Subject: Re: Amaroo: Cutbacks/Booze Message:

What a load of unmitigated garbage. Totally out of touch.PS As much as I find myself pissing my pants laughing at the thought, I am definetly NOT Derek Harper. I've got a much better figure!

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 18:51:04 (EDT) From: Deborah Email: None To: Henrietta Wallaby Subject: ~AUM ~ AUM on the Range~ Message:

So Amaroo is a full time (Hollywood-style Town)?. Don't know what's going on there. Never saw an Amaroo or hear of it till I came here. This Derek Harper guy, is that Catweasel? And is Catweasel involved, to your knowledge or way of hearsay, one of the authors and perpetrators of CAC? Any more dirt? p.s. I enjoyed this post.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 14:55:48 (EDT) From: Barbara Email: None To: Henrietta Wallaby Subject: Scamaroo? Message:

Is this Pat C. trying to prove the point that one can anonymously write a factual-looking account that looks like the inside scoop, but it really isn't and you really aren't Ms. Wallaby? Just a shot in the dark....

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 04:41:35 (EST) From: AJW (really Joe) Email: None To: Barbara Subject: Is Barbara really Bjorn? Message:

Is Barbara really Bjorn? Just trying to sow confusion amongst the ranks. Anth who is really Marianne. (Well, I bought the same dress and wear it at the weekends.)

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 11:29:19 (EST) From: Barbara Email: None To: AJW (really Joe) Subject: I'm really Bjork dancing in the dark Message:

and, obviously, the feathers on this damn swan dress have gotten in my eyes blocking my vision. Bjorn's family tree has no branches, which explains mucho. Bjork I can't see clearly now, the rain has come....

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:16:29 (EDT) From: Henrietta Wallaby Email: None To: Barbara Subject: Henrietta Wallaby Message:

The person posting as 'Henrietta Wallaby' is an ex-PAM who recently departed the cult. This ex-PAM wants to be anonymous because of the fear of a CAC-like cult attack, but be sure that the information this ex-PAM has will be made public, by and by. You will see no disagreement with Henrietta's post, because it's common knowledge, especially among cult members in Australia.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 04:16:59 (EST) From: AJW Email: None To: Henrietta Wallaby Subject: CAC Attack. Message:

Henrietta, You have more to fear from a drunken, amiable mouse than from a CAC attack. Their website was only up for a few days. (I have preserved my own page on my website, for posterity. I thought it was a hoot, and am actually quite pround of it.) Premies are stymied because they are scared to fart without the Captains approval. The nearer to him they are, the more scared they are. (In the corridors of power, a fart at the wrong time can mean the end of a promising cult career.) Anyway, because they can't move without the Captain's nod, and because the Captain can't make decisions, doesn't know what's happening-locked away in his Malibu eyesore- nobody does anything. When he finally yells, 'Will someone rid me of this troublesome priest.' it always ends in tears. He can't take exposure to reality on any level. The premie backlash is joke. They are bunch of mindless dolts, incapable of moving on their own. And when they do eventually do something, like Pia's website, or CAC- it inevitable rebounds on them. The building is infected. Anything that comes out is sick, contaminated and powerless. This is a battle the cult lost long ago. We're just cleaning up the stragglers. Anth, take your best shot Captain, you're holding a water pistol with a range of 10cm. Drip. Drip. Drip.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 13:38:17 (EST) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: AJW Subject: CAC Attack. Brilliant, Anth! [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:42:21 (EDT) From: Barbara Email: None To: Henrietta Wallaby Subject: Yo Henrietta.... Message:

Oh, okay, now I believe you (not). :) Also, it's just a rash, and the check is in the mail.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 08:27:11 (EST) From: salam Email: None To: Barbara Subject: fuck off you dim wit Message:

and get yourself some anti-fungus cream to slap between your legs too.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 11:11:15 (EST) From: Barbara Email: None To: salam Subject: I think a dingo stole your brain... Message:

Salam: I usually enjoy your posts, but you've crossed the line here. You'd be well advised to NEVER, and I mean NEVER, speak to me that way again. As for the 'anti-fungus' (sic) cream between my legs, at least I have something there, unlike you, you moronic fucking fool. Anyone can make an honest mistake, and if anyone should know that, it's you, Salam, because I've seen you stick your g.d. foot in your mouth more times than Dubya has a thought in a week. What is it with you? For you to attack someone, who made an honest mistake and even acknowledged it and whom you don't even know, with such viciousness and venom, displays a lack of intelligence which is breathtaking. I know you're not stupid, you sure ACT like one of the stupidest fucks known to mankind, short of being George Bush. I think a dingo ate your brain, Salam. What a fistula on the asshole of Satan.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 19:39:59 (EST) From: salam Email: None To: Barbara Subject: no he did not Message:

Well that turned you on didn't you silly person? Not my fault is it? you playing stupid and I was passing by and wham. I realized after I posted that I may have picked up on the wrong person. Oh please, find it in your great mercy to forgive my sin and restore my status. I must say that you are a good flammer which means you are ok ~) Now to the question of why I said it: Henrietta is obviously an Aussie who may have had a lot of contact with EV Australia. I believe he has posted under different names, am not going to say which as it is obvious that he/she wants to covet his/her ass. I therefore tend to belive this person. Plus Aussies don't fuck around as you know.:) No where that bloody dingo? Hey you mongerl, bring that brain here right now.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 22:49:08 (EST) From: Barbara Email: None To: salam Subject: Your status is mercifully restored Message:

Salam: Well, the next time you decide to give someone a high colonic, I suggest you read the entire thread before launching. Btw, I made an honest mistake; Joe set me straight; I acknowleged it and apologized to Henrietta. So it wasn't a matter of being stupid, just ignorant; there's a dif. You liked the flame, though, huh? ;) I was pissed.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 23:44:13 (EST) From: Salam Email: None To: Barbara Subject: you have been elevitate Message:

to the status of guru for 12 hours.[but since australia is 12 hours in front, that period has already expired].()) My mistake, should have read further on. As for flamming, look at it this way. Premeis don't know how to flame. You making charcole of my ass that way means you are not in a cult, yar? ~)

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 13:49:50 (EST) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Barbara Subject: a dingo stole Salam's brain... Message:

I think you are being charitable, Barbara. There is no acceptable excuse for what he said - not even that a dingo ate his brain. I hope you apologise, Salam, because that really was the final straw for me too. Absolutely shockingly infantile. Grow up and start taking some responsibility for yourself as an adult. Disgusting! I hope Barbara makes you grovel. If she doesn't, I will. There is no excuse whatsoever - not even mental impairment.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 22:51:12 (EST) From: Barbara Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: Thanks, Pat Message:

I have to say I didn't need any caffeine after reading that low blow. I surely don't recommend reading something like that first thing in the morning.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 11:19:39 (EST) From: Dermot Email: None To: Barbara Subject: Hi, have you two met ...this is..and :) [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 17:03:33 (EDT) From: Joe Email: None To: Barbara Subject: Barbara, it's for real.... Message:

That's all I can tell you at the moment, but Henrietta is also 'OTS' for whom Richard Rogers posted that great PAM post a while back. If I told you the name of this PAM you would recognize it, and be very surprised, I think.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 00:41:02 (EDT) From: looking for facts Email: None To: Joe Subject: Joe, what's the OTS post you refer to? nt Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 13:48:36 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: looking for facts Subject: Archives -- post by Richard Message:

You would have to check the archives, but Richard (Rogers) posted it FOR "OTS" a couple of months ago. "OTS" is the same person as "Henrietta Wallaby." All I remember is that the post Richard put up was pre-9/11. Isn't weird how that has become a big dividing line in our lives? It was a VERY powerful post. Not only because of the information, but mostly because it revealed the sincere efforts of someone giving Maharaji every benefit of the doubt, but at some point, being unable to continue, what with integrity, and common sense, and common decency, winning out.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 14:39:23 (EST) From: looking for facts Email: None To: Joe Subject: Richard-where is for OTS post? nt Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 18:01:10 (EST) From: Researcher Email: None To: looking for facts Subject: Here is OTS Earlier Post Message:

Dated August 27, 2001 as posted by Richard: --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - OTS has asked me to post this for him. - Richard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TO: EPO Readers FROM: OTS DATE: August 27, 2001 RE: Update I made my first and only post here on July 20, and have now had five weeks to digest everything, including my statement and your comments and posts back to me, which, til today, I have not answered. However, due to some FOG CLEARING IN MY HEAD, I have now, after 29 and a half years, finally ended my association with Maharaji -- fully and totally. It was a sad day, yesterday, as I filled up two suitcases (over 50 pounds in weight) with every videotape, audiotape, audiocassette music tape, CD, book, brochure, service file, jewelry, Amaroo logo shirt, Indian cloth sack, 3x5 picture, 4 x 6 picture, 8x10 picture, larger mala-wearing dancing pictures, hand-written prayer book, and a blueprint for a large outdoor festival years old (showing the placement of the Darshan recovery area, etc.) and anything else associated with Maharaji and/or his father found in my house and tossed it all in a large dumpster behind an Indian restaurant near where I live. That’s it folks -- the baby, the bathwater and the whole fuckin basinet -- outta here! I have replaced it all with a newly acquired bobble-head doll of my favorite baseball player. I apologize for my arrogance in my July 20 post. I was trying to hold on to my beloved cult participation and belief systems (that, in fact, Maharaji is God or even greater than God, knows all, is a perfect master, whatever that is, etc.) After almost three decades, it is quite painful to come to the realization that Maharaji is only in it as a family business, he is not the Superior Power in Person, he is not all-knowing, he is not going to take me across the 'oceans of this world . . . to the other side' (wherever that may be), and he has not given me peace even though I surrendered the reigns of my life to him totally years and years ago, as he suggested. My family members and friends (the few I have left) will be shocked if it ever comes up. I doubt it will, they’ll just continue to think of me as a cult-driven sadsack. That’s okay. I was. I cannot believe that I am just now realizing all this. But it is all too clear to me now. I was in a race (triathletic) for recognition and acceptance by the one who was going to save me. [Just this year in Portland, he told the aspirants, religion is for salvation after this life, Knowledge is for salvation during this life.] Oh, please, save me, save me save me!!! Oh, Please! Maharaji says now he is not a leader, a spiritual practitioner or a teacher, but I know what I was told and what to believe for many many many many many many years by him and his appointed saints and organizers, including the writings of his father, Shri Maharji in his 'Hans Yog Prakash' (a devotional manual if there ever was one). And now, again, I was recently faced with having to sing Arti to him and prostrate before him at this feet during Darshan. This is not 30 years ago, this is THIS YEAR -- 2001. In fact, I have now come to the conclusion that I was trapped for near 30 years in a personality cult (sort of like followers of ‘N Sync or Barbara Streisand -- but a million times worse) and just wanted to get closer to the star personality which we all worshiped as God! 'Only by His Grace,' was my/our byword. NO LONGER! I’m through with all this shit. I told you in my July 20th post that I had/have personal contacts with Maharaji and that I liked him and he liked me. Well, as some of you responded to me, so what?! You’re right. That I continued in my master/student relationship even though his organization was in shambles was/is a contradiction, you said. I now agree. I have now come full circle and want to say that I am feeling so free today in that I am relieved of this religion and the fear I carried with it -- my quest to get closer and closer, to get a better seat, to have more chitchat with him, to be respected as one closer and closer to the 'inner circle.' What an ego-driven waste. I am and always have been just a lowly mid-level meaningless person in his organization. And finally poor from running all over the world to satisfy my quest as outlined above. What a stupid out of balance person I was. However, I am so disappointed in his performance in the past 15 years. What about the first 15 years with him? In retrospect, he seemed to be trying for a while, but failed. He promised to work hard to bring this Knowledge to the rest of the world. In my opinion, he didn’t do it. Whether because of laziness, or whatever personal problems he was dealing with, he just didn’t do it. I worked really hard over the past 15 years to try and get propagation going in my city, but it was just a joke -- locally and nationally. The public was just not buying. [Why couldn’t I see through the fog?] Just recently some new person was given a videotape said, 'Okay, I want to see him.' Well, she was told, he doesn’t come around too often -- like hardly ever. It is obvious that Knowledge isn’t going to be spread with any success via videotape or broadcasts. Nope. And how far does someone have to drive to attend some hotel room meeting to get informed about what the next step is in the process for them to receive knowledge (including having to pass all kinds of interviews and rounds of rounds of screening (many by elderly people from other cultures))? It doesn’t have to take a quarter million dollars for him (and his large entourage and production company) to come and speak in a hotel room. He can do it himself, easily and cheaply, yet he won’t. I tried my hand last year at participation involving putting on one of his large events. A personal disaster for me. No cooperation, sleep depravation, burn out. Dealing with EV and its staff and volunteers was completely frustrating; in my opinion because everyone involved was only really concerned with getting a better seat, being closer to the inner circle, getting some personal time and recognition with him, etc. Ever been around him in a small or mid-sized group of people? It’s so weak. People just blurt out the most outrageous, stupid and silly things. And everyone just laughs. Hahahahaha. Insipid and clearly a drag. I never went for that kind of conversation with him. In the end, today, I feel that as a person, I like him, personally, a little. But because of this Master shit, I have lost all respect for him. He speaks nicely and can inspire one to seek one’s inner truth, but that doesn’t equate with the total adoration that is required by him and his. This is a very sick personality cult. It doesn’t do one any good. He IS the weakest link. Good bye.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 15:41:13 (EST) From: Richard Email: None To: looking for facts Subject: Re: Richard-where is for OTS post? nt Message:

OTS's post is deep in the archives - not sure where. Is the old search engine still workable? However, I was requested by OTS to only post it once and to remain anonymous, so I'll continue to respect those requests. But, if Henrietta is in fact OTS, as Joe suggests, that person would definitely know about Amaroo's inner workings. Richard

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 19:09:06 (EDT) From: Katie Email: None To: Joe Subject: Thanks, Joe Message:

I thought the post was real because it definitely fits with many things I've heard on and off the forum. But I appreciate the verification very much.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 17:22:35 (EDT) From: Barbara Email: None To: Joe Subject: Okay, thanks, Joe.... Message:

Thanks, Joe. With all the talk about anonymity, Pams etc., I thought this was a spoof by Pat C. to drive his point home about anonymity. Sorry, Henrietta, for doubting your veracity. I felt like I was in the Hall of Mirrors in Steppenwolf trying to figure out what's real and what's not. That's a road to hell if ever there were one. PS: The check is not in the mail, and there's no rash. ;)

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 19:04:59 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Barbara Subject: Too funny, Barbara Message:

Not me. The real thing as Joe says. But great minds do think alike.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 11:29:30 (EDT) From: looking for facts Email: None To: Henrietta Wallaby Subject: Re: Amaroo: Cutbacks/Booze Message:

Henrietta- Can you relay any more specifcs on what you have just posted? How many people laid off,what are proposed future plans for amaroo,does it take in revenue for conferences outside of m and k,future events at amaroo, current state of mind amongst aussie premies about this news,m's whereabouts and feelings about the whole thing, etc. etc. Interesting news, would be good to hear more confirmation about it. Is this a forerunner for more things to come? Do you really think they will sell it? Not looking too good for the cult these days.... And is it true about the rawat kids partying habits?

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 01:06:46 (EDT) From: Mr Dooley Email: None To: Henrietta Wallaby Subject: Thanks for info Message:

do any of the kids know the ol' man(aka-frog face) is fucked up? Which one would seem most likely to blow the whistle on the scam? Are they all using 'anaesthetics' to avoid dealing with their plight? Does Dunga Ji know or is she sick?

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 03:54:51 (EDT) From: Moll of Mole Email: mollofmole@loveable.com To: Mr Dooley Subject: Re: Thanks for info Message:

Henrietta, My 'B' used to work there so we were wondering if you had any more news. Who is leaving? How big is the debt? Are they going to sell the place? MoM

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:21:21 (EDT) From: Cyntia Email: None To: Moll of Mole Subject: Az an 'ole faschioned permie.. Message:

an I juss canno wrap my mine 'round booshen' at a Mahahaha feshaval... An I donnot conone it! Wherz mi glash?

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Date: Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 21:08:41 (EDT) From: gErRy Email: None To: All Subject: oH! dear oH! my Message:

Well I blocked Bjorn from pjosting any more of his pjorn, but I see he's a clever beast, with more than one hjorn. And though a rare unicjorn he may never be, from these monmot lands I wish he would flee...

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Date: Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 21:24:17 (EDT) From: Troll Patrol Email: None To: gErRy Subject: Do I get to exterminate him, boss? Message:

Just say the word and I'll delete his ass outta here. PatC, Cacroach exterminator.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:06:41 (EDT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Troll Patrol Subject: I ain't no boss, but... Message:

Puleeze exterminate this cacaroach's ass again and again. Hope your cold is better, Pat, I just got over mine, and it seems to be coming back! Nothing worse than brainmush!

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 03:52:15 (EST) From: JohnT Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Woof! Message:

That's an agreeable woof of course. I am not so sure of Bjorn's reality, he twists words and misrepresents himself far too cynically to be an ordinary delude (or he just amazingly shallow?). Sick; slick; fool; or fiction, I don't care as long as he's out of here. JohnT - never a premie

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Date: Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 20:30:50 (EDT) From: Mr Dooley Email: None To: All Subject: Anonymity/ and for PAM Message:

....which this name obviously is(are there any U.S. History scholars out there?). Anyway, there are so many reasons for anonymity and so many for coming out. I know when I knew I was leaving Maharaji(N.B. not EV but Maharaji)I felt like it was best to just make excuses to get out of my mid-level service because it was my decision and I was tired of having to explain myself to anyone. I just knew it was time to WENT. I can completely understand why PAM has a reason(s) to not come out. Now, I have a completely different reason for not coming out which has nothing to do with fear of cult retribution. Is this true or am I just deceiving myself? That's up to me to learn and the same for PAM. Opinions are welcome but that's all they are unless you want to claim you have ALLthe facts. I would be interested in hearing the opinions of the stupid ones like me who wasted 20+ years like me thinking M was the answer and I was the impediment.

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Date: Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 21:42:23 (EDT) From: Roger eDrek Email: None To: Mr Dooley Subject: Re: Anonymity/ and for PAM Message:

My suggestion is don't be pressured in revealing your identity if you don't want to. I got out after the long haul starting in 1973 just a couple of years ago and I didn't want to reveal my identity and still don't wish to now. However, I've been outed once or twice for various reasons by various people. Maybe you don't want to reveal yourself because of your job or your other friends or family. Those, IMO, are valid reasons and whatever other reason you've got. It's your business and nobody else's regardless of how much pressure people want to put on you.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 04:52:09 (EDT) From: AJW Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: I completely agree Roger. Message:

Hi Roger, I posted under another name for a few weeks before using my real name. It was a premie who persuaded me not to be anonymous. Yours sincerely, John Smith.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:12:35 (EDT) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: AJW Subject: I might as well be anonymous Message:

Many an eyebrow has been raised when I tell them that my name is Smith anyway Brian Jones

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 16:05:39 (EDT) From: John Brown Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: Yeah, know what you mean , Bri [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 15:27:19 (EDT) From: If you think that's bad... Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: I know a woman... Message:

whose daughter and son-in-law named their son Jones. His last name is Smith. No lie. Jones Smith. Try that in kindergarten or first grade, or the rest of his life! Joan Smith??? Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 13:57:03 (EDT) From: Roger eDrek & barney Email: None To: AJW Subject: Re: I completely agree Roger. Message:

Exactly! But nevertheless, Anth, it's people like you who give this place a bad name.

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 12:58:55 (EST) From: AJW Email: None To: Roger eDrek & barney Subject: A bad name? Message:

Roger, what do you mean. My credentials are impecable. I've been in the cubs, the Air Cadets, and at least two religious cults. I'm a fine upstanding member of Maoist society. Ask my mum, Mother Theresa, or my dad, Dick Barton, private eye. Anth, most leaves fall without my grace.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 14:45:41 (EDT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Roger eDrek & barney Subject: Hey Roger.... Message:

How are you? Glad to see you here. I will now offer my opinion about anonymity. It's one thing to post regularly with a handle and I respect and understand any ex-premie's desire to do that. It another situation when spammers and trolls come here to disrupt, which I don't like. That's it! Btw, I've been hunting for that wild conversation between Barney and Fred, the one where they talk about finding the techniques??? Have you got it and could you repost it here? I think that one needs a reprisal, or at least a link. I'd 'preciate it if you could post the link. Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 21:32:48 (EDT) From: Roger eDrek Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Re: Hey Roger.... Message:

Ah, I'm fine, thanks. And you? Yes, I agree that the trolls are something else altogether and we'd be better off without them. Barney and Fred? Geez, my memory is gone, but I vaguely remember it. Is that in the Forum archives maybe? I don't think I've that in my own personal colletion though.

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Date: Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 21:58:38 (EDT) From: Mr Dooley Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Re: Anonymity/ and for PAM Message:

or for any reason we as escapees deem relevant until they no longer are relevant or I as a human being no better or worse than anyone else decide differently and yes I agree maha does look like a frog Mr axbdserzx aka Mr. Dooley

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Date: Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 21:06:39 (EDT) From: Deborah Email: None To: Mr Dooley Subject: Classics and film scholar (OT) Message:

With courses in Physics and Astronomy which is one my main passions. And I like the history of science, mathematics and ArchaeoAstronomy. I think Such has such knowledge, dahlink. This forum collectively is a virtual encyclopaedia. I'll respond to your inquiry later, the library (where I'm posting) is closing. Get back to you tomorrow. Bye for now Deb

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Date: Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 21:24:21 (EDT) From: Mr Dooley Email: None To: Deborah Subject: for Deborah Message:

here is the master [ Who is Mr. Dooley ]

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Date: Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 20:41:34 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Mr Dooley Subject: hang down your head, Mr Dooley Message:

If you were making serious or incriminating allegations against Rev Rawat and his cult I would insist that you did it under your real name or ignore you. But you just seem to be hanging out here and having some fun with the rest of us former cult peons.. My two cents, people respected me a lot more after I told them my real name. More importantly I respected myself a whole lot more. It's great not to have anything more to hide like I did when I was in the cult.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 11:53:59 (EDT) From: Katie Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: A plea for anonymous posters (kinda rambling) Message:

Hi Pat - I think it's perfectly all right for you to choose ignore anonymous posters if you like. But I also think it's OK if other people choose NOT to ignore them. I think that it's important to create a climate here where anonymity is acceptable. I believe it's important for people like Pam to be able to tell their stories here - even if taken with a grain of salt. Some of these people have never been able to talk openly about what happened to them - thus it's an important part of the exiting process. There was just a big debate on here about Recent Exes (and I do NOT want to start that debate again!!!) But part of the point of the debate was that people might only post on RE and not on Forum7 - thus depriving the public the chance to read their posts. However, if people are then discouraged from posting on Forum7 anonymously because of their former positions within EV, where else do they have to go? It's a Catch-22 situation for these people - and I don't think it's right just to tell them to not to post. Joe suggested that perhaps we ought to discuss why these people feel the need to stay anonymous, and I think that's a good idea. IMHO, it's not just in their heads - there is a definite fear of retaliation by EV or other premies - and I don't think this fear is irrational. And some of the ex-premies I know who are most insistent on anonymity have shared custody of their children with a premie ex-spouse - I don't think their fear of 'coming out' is irrational either. Just to give one example, there was a former Australian instructor who posted on the forum under the name 'KK', which happened to be her initials - so she was easily identifiable by premies. When she posted here (and she wasn't even that critical of Maharaji!), one or two premies posted several posts that were quite defamatory to her - making serious legal accusations, and generally dragging her personal life through the mud. It was really hurtful, and she stopped posting. As we've seen with CAC, any thing about a person's life can be twisted to make them look horrible - and, as we've also seen with CAC, a lot of people appear to BELIEVE these accusations - however twisted they are. We don't know what affect this may have on people's personal lives. CAC did cause at least one poster here to stop posting - which was a big loss for this forum, IMHO. I'm always glad when people start posting under their real name. But it is a big step (and a scary one) for many people, and I don't think that people who choose to post anonymously here should be disapproved of, or shamed in any way. (As long as they only use ONE pseudonym, of course - snicker!!) JMHO (or my two cents), as always - Katie

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Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 01:09:59 (EST) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Katie Subject: Re: A plea for anonymous posters (kinda rambling) Message:

Katie: However, if people are then discouraged from posting on Forum7 anonymously because of their former positions within EV, where else do they have to go? It's a Catch-22 situation for these people - and I don't think it's right just to tell them to not to post. Well, the way I see it is that it's like the difference between 'going steady' and being married. You've got to show your birth certificate for the latter, because there'll eventually be property and dependents involved. --Scott

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 13:20:54 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Katie Subject: But, Katie, I'm not being dogmatic Message:

Yes, I took a hard line approach when I first came out much like a former cigaret smoker would but my stance has softened somewhat. I still don't like it. Look at the thread above this with Aussie moles and wallabee wannabes yakking about inside info on Amaroo. It's about as convincing as the tooth fairy and a lot more insulting to our intelligence. If people are afraid then they really should not post but communicate by email or on RE or at least stick to personal stuff and don't make anonymous allegations which can't be substantiated. It really makes us look like a bunch of infantile and vindictive anonymous CACroaches.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 13:32:07 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: Hm, not quite with you there, Pat Message:

Pat, I think there's room for anonymous reports and sometimes, remember, the various 'moles' (UK, Malibu and now Aussie) have given us great reports that, while insufficient to take to the bank, have been lots of fun and likely true. If the moles all came in out of the cold they would lose their special vantage point, no? I think what happened here with Pam so far is a reasonable compromise. If Pam can't come out now under his or her own name it sure is much better than nothing to do just what she or he did, establish communication with at least one long-time trustworthy poster who can vouch for them. True, their story will always be much stronger without anonymity but qualified anonmyity is a good step in the right direction. I can't imagine any premie coming on now and simply calling Katie a liar, saying that she's just making up her claim to have spoken with Pam. That would be pretty thin. But Katie's vouching for Pam is also quite thin compared to Pam coming out.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 19:15:35 (EDT) From: Deborah Email: None To: Jim Subject: Glad to hear you say that Jim Message:

Hi there :) To me, an unoffensive post that acknowledges the dope on Maha, EV, perverted and predatory initiators is like a movie trailer. OKAY, so you still don't know who's starring in it, but it builds the interest. Credibility?? Pat. What are you thinking? Geez Louise, is that what we have now?

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 14:06:21 (EDT) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sorry, Jim Message:

I've got one of those colds that turns the brain to mush. I think Chuck said it well in a post in a thread below. Look I enjoy the moles' reports as much as anyone and I can tell immediately if it's the real thing. They've got their place BUT we can't expect lurking premies to not be skeptical. Right now my thoughts on this are clouded by the Pam controversy in which I have been accused of outing her whereabouts by using info only an FA would have and thus causing her to be harassed by EV. This has arisen because some people wish to enshrine her report on EPO. The fact is that I did not use FA info and immediately assumed from references to OZ that it was another recent ex with whom I have been in contact with and who has since emailed me denying writing the Pam report. There were many similarities between Pam's post and this other new ex's (criticizing the forum in very similar words.) Thinking that it was him I felt miffed that he had reverted to anonymity and said as much at the time. Since finding out that the Pam report was not written by him I don't feel so strongly about the anonymity aspect. A lot of my current anti-anonymity had to do with feeling snubbed by someone whom I thought could have used me to vouch for them. So okay I guessed the wrong person. It's not my business to say whether Pam's report should be enshrined on EPO or not however I can offer my opinion and that's what I've been doing. EPO has an official aura and is more permanent that the forum. Only verified info belongs there. On the forum - well you take it from where it comes. I hope I made some sense. Cotton wool for brains.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 12:29:57 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: Easy for you to say Message:

I'm always glad when people start posting under their real name. But it is a big step (and a scary one) for many people, and I don't think that people who choose to post anonymously here should be disapproved of, or shamed in any way. (As long as they only use ONE pseudonym, of course - snicker!!) Katie, I understand one of the big differences between RE and the regular forum is that there is no anonymity on RE. People aren't just encouraged to post under their own name, they have to. And why? Because it's just that much more real. More real for the poster, more real for everyone communicating with them. If they want to join that club that's part of the price. Correct me if I'm wrong but is it not the case that even ONE pseudonym is one pseudonym too many on RE? The rest of us out here in plain, old forum land don't have the luxury of forcing anyone to give up anonymity if they want to talk with us here. But there are definite strengths and benefits gained when anaonymity's abandoned, we all know that. Thus, I think it's a bit much to say that anyone encouraging people to take that step are being 'shamed'. God, talk about guilt trips!

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 13:49:19 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Correction Message:

Thus, I think it's a bit much to say that anyone encouraging people to take that step are being 'shamed'. shold read: Thus, I think it's a bit much to say that anyone encouraging people to take that step are 'shaming' them.

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Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 04:55:08 (EDT) From: AJW Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: Nothing to hide Pat? Message:

What about that trail of broken hearted teddy bears and pandas you left behind you, damaged and hurt, much more than needle, thread and kapoc will ever mend. You swine. Anth feeling plush.

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Date: Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 21:10:14 (EDT) From: Seamus Dooley Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: Hang down your head and cry Message:

This removal from Rawat is like a bad acid trip and you certainlt don't need someone telling you you're wrong/fucked up because you already know that. You're tired of everything about the whole M trip including whether you are respected by others. You certainly don't need an EX telling you how to behave after 25+ years of dancing to M's subtle behavior model. ...and Mr Dooley goes way way back before the Kingston Trio

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