Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Oct 31, 2001 To: Nov 07, 2001 Page: 2 of: 5


Andrea Eriksonn -:- 'Please Consider This, Not THAT' ... -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 21:22:48 (EST)
__ Fred Newman -:- Will you tell the Maharaja -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 23:32:55 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- ...Not even the other THING -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 21:47:33 (EST)

Sister Helen Wheels -:- WHO DID THAT??!! -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 18:45:27 (EST)
__ **** -:- SHW -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 15:12:24 (EST)
__ __ Barry -:- Re: SHW -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 18:38:55 (EST)
__ Brother Hal N. Back -:- Yes, where are the pix? -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 00:02:58 (EST)
__ __ Marianne -:- Visit House of Drek -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 01:04:23 (EST)
__ __ __ Brother Hal N. Back -:- Been there Marianne -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 17:23:50 (EST)
__ Taffy -:- Excuse me, but would you... -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 22:39:58 (EST)
__ __ Sister Mary Mae Hem -:- No, Sr. Helen has only one 'L' -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 22:53:35 (EST)
__ __ __ Sister Rossetta -:- Sister, don't even... -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 23:10:11 (EST)

Meher Baba -:- Yet another one... -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:07:39 (EST)
__ don -:- Re: Yet another one... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 06:46:36 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- Spiritualism made easy 129 pages -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 22:47:34 (EST)
__ Timmi -:- Re: Yet another one... -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 21:27:25 (EST)
__ Pat:C) -:- Meher Baba inHollywood -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:30:05 (EST)
__ bill -:- intoxicated from direct awareness of god? [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:21:27 (EST)

Nigel -:- Prem trashes ALL premie mail! -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 14:49:57 (EST)
__ Andrea Eriksonn -:- Really, what ARE you all going on about????? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 06:17:05 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Except for the ones.... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 05:14:22 (EST)
__ Scott T. -:- I got an answer too, in 1981. -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 00:27:35 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- Actually I got an answer back once -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 23:25:45 (EST)
__ __ Vicki -:- Bogus reply -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 09:56:04 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- I wrote M every day.... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 11:59:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Really?? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:39:43 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Maharaji never answered my letters -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:39:45 (EST)
__ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: Prem trashes ALL premie mail! -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:30:10 (EST)
__ bill -:- There goes my powder idea [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:22:55 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Careful, Bill.... [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 10:11:04 (EST)
__ Pat:C) -:- I always suspected that.... -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:07:39 (EST)

Vicki -:- THE watch collection -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:48:20 (EST)
__ david m -:- Re: THE watch collection -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 13:50:26 (EST)

Vicki -:- -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:47:30 (EST)

Joe -:- Background on CAC -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:28:22 (EST)
__ Marianne -:- Re: Background on CAC -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:34:54 (EST)
__ __ Mr. Observation -:- Re: Background on CAC -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 21:20:16 (EST)

Joe -:- CAC Update -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:12:07 (EST)
__ Joe -:- COPY those sites!!! -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:15:19 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Did someone COPY those sites!!! -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:06:40 (EST)
__ __ __ Chuck S. -:- Apostates and New Religions? those sites!!! -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:43:18 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- I have the home pages and exes profiles [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:09:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Yea!!! Spot on [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:10:20 (EST)

Pam -:- The Second Coming -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 12:36:35 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Yes, it's a hard pill to swallow -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 04:44:55 (EST)
__ Jim S. -:- Thank you John, and... -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 20:20:48 (EST)
__ __ John -:- Thankyou for your thankyou -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 09:20:27 (EST)
__ __ __ Richard -:- And thanks again, John -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:14:54 (EST)
__ __ Gail -:- Thanks for a great post. Jim: -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 22:08:12 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Good post Jim S. -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 21:07:38 (EST)
__ RichMandrake -:- John, May I offer My Heartfelt Gratitude.. -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 17:52:01 (EST)
__ david m -:- Thank You incredable nt [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 14:10:05 (EST)
__ david m -:- Thank You incredable nt -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 14:09:53 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Thanks John. -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:36:37 (EST)
__ Carl -:- You ask the best question: -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 01:42:48 (EST)
__ Vicki -:- Re: The Second Coming -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 00:23:35 (EST)
__ Mel -:- Thanks John.. -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 00:14:14 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Want to do something helpful, Mel? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 11:06:22 (EST)
__ __ Katie -:- Hi Mel -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 08:07:20 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- How can you say that? -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 11:43:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Confusious Say -:- Wise Man Sometimes F**Ks with -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 22:35:49 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Sheesh, Jim! -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 17:11:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ SC -:- Right on Jimbo -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:20:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Cult Spotter -:- Excuse me, but weren't you LEAVING... -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 16:04:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cult member -:- Yea but YOU LEAVE and then return. -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 00:49:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: Excuse me, but weren't you LEAVING... -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 20:55:46 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Come on Mel, we're all embarassed -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 03:13:40 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Thanks, excellent ... but why just 4? -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 00:11:35 (EST)
__ Brian -:- Congratulations, John -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 00:00:23 (EST)
__ michael donner -:- Re: The Second Coming -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 23:08:08 (EST)
__ __ gErRy -:- damn donner you said IT !!!! -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 11:44:59 (EST)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- On the subject of paypal... -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 13:11:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ gErRy -:- Re: On the subject of paypal... -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 13:40:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- No, my vote goes to... -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 13:45:16 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- LOLOL gErRy! NT -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:37:51 (EST)
__ PatD -:- Yuck ! -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 21:51:22 (EST)
__ Marie of Romania -:- The Second Coming + the First Going -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 21:29:31 (EST)
__ __ Katie -:- Greetings, Marie -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 08:24:59 (EST)
__ __ __ Marie of Romania -:- Greetings, Katie -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 11:40:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Hi Marie -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 17:09:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Off vis mein hett ~) -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 00:54:14 (EST)
__ Suedoula -:- Thank you, John . . . -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 20:22:57 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Thank you, SusanSP for... -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 03:09:55 (EST)
__ __ __ Barbara -:- I am Spartacus. No, I am Spartacus -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 10:33:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ GGG -:- Re: I am Spartacus. No, I am Spartacus -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:30:55 (EST)
__ magiclara -:- Thank you so much John NT -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 20:00:39 (EST)
__ Joe Whalen -:- Thank You -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 19:56:47 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- Incredible !! -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 19:27:42 (EST)
__ bill burke -:- Thank you John [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:51:19 (EST)
__ __ bill -:- someone insert this post on all the forums -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:55:16 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Already on LG [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:57:00 (EST)
__ Susan -:- thank you (nt) -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:31:42 (EST)
__ Dermot -:- Hey John..... -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:11:39 (EST)
__ Chuck S. -:- WOW! Thank you so much... -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 15:59:01 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- I knew you were for real -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 15:56:25 (EST)
__ Lesley -:- who is this masked man -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 15:30:47 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Thanks for the language lesson:-) -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:49:45 (EST)
__ Nottingham Bunnie -:- One more thing.............. -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 15:29:27 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Maharaji Shooting Rabbits??!!!?? -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 09:47:13 (EST)
__ __ __ Nottingham Bunnie -:- apologies to Cynthya OT -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 11:26:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- No Apology Required...OT -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:35:38 (EST)
__ __ __ Nottingham Bunny (x Mole) -:- Bunny Massacre -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 11:17:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- This part most bothered me too -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 17:06:54 (EST)
__ __ hamzen -:- Shagging 'em, shooting 'em, all the same to him -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:20:58 (EST)
__ __ __ Nottingham Bunnie -:- Shagging 'em, shooting 'em, all the same to him -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:43:44 (EST)
__ Cynthia Gracie -:- Thanks so Much! -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 14:43:07 (EST)
__ __ John -:- Scott R et al -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 10:18:34 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Scott R et al -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 11:53:30 (EST)
__ __ bill -:- Re: Thanks so Much! -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:54:13 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- To: Bill Re: Scott Ritter.... -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 09:18:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- Re: To: Bill Scott Ritter.... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:06:01 (EST)
__ Nigel -:- Big ta, John. Excellent. Happy now, pwk's? [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 14:32:54 (EST)
__ Pat:C) -:- My humble apologies and heartfelt thanks -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 14:02:52 (EST)
__ __ John -:- Ta -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 10:23:14 (EST)
__ __ SC -:- I just KNEW IT -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 21:24:05 (EST)
__ __ __ Mummiji -:- Oh my, Cerise, dear ... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 00:22:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Mummiji -:- Of course ... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 00:32:17 (EST)
__ __ __ JohnT -:- David the hypocrite -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 08:46:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ SC -:- It's true Johnny Tuckerbox -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 11:18:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Nottingham Bunnie -:- Be careful with curses -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 11:30:46 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- Nottingham's over pal -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:29:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nottingham Bunnie -:- Smartarse - I was born in Nottingham! NT -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:56:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- Wow really? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 01:05:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nottingham Bunnie -:- Underwhelmed.......... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 04:37:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynathia -:- No it's not...It's -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:43:02 (EST)
__ JHB -:- Thanks John -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:14:43 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- Thanks John and welcome -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 14:31:22 (EST)
__ __ __ michael donner -:- Re: Thanks John and welcome -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 22:40:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hi Mike... -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 09:24:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ John -:- hi -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 10:33:25 (EST)
__ Nottingham Mole -:- Thank you John (PAM) -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:08:43 (EST)
__ Silvia -:- Thanks for your courage (Nt) -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 12:59:36 (EST)
__ __ Zelda :::-) -:- oh. thats dirrerent . thnks + srry. [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:22:13 (EST)
__ __ __ salsa -:- Re: oh. thats dirrerent . thnks + srry. -:- Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 05:32:04 (EST)

Fred Newman -:- Is the Maharaja a Hindu? -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 07:08:18 (EST)
__ cq -:- Interesting article, Mr N -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:19:34 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- What a Throwback -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 20:13:05 (EST)
__ Are you the son of -:- Alfred E/ Newman? NT -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 12:36:47 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- Surely not. Alfred E Neumann Jr is -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:28:37 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Very funny [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 20:14:45 (EST)


Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 21:22:48 (EST)
From: Andrea Eriksonn
Email: None
To: All
Subject: 'Please Consider This, Not THAT' ...
Message:
Dear Unhappy ex-students of Maharaji:

I honestly don't understand what all the fuss is about. I mean, really, I'M very sure, I couldn't possibly be a member of cult, as I have so carefully documented on my website, ''Please Consider This, Not THAT''. And these so-called CAC attacks were just balancing your own extream, cultist views. Why this time the CAC sites didn't even print your home phone numbers! Wasn't that nice of them? But are you grateful? No, of course not. That is really part of your problem. You are so out of touch with That Experience, that you don't even appreciate when The Teacher is extending His grace and mercy to you. No wonder you are so unhappy!

And so what if that unfortunate restuarant in San Francisco had it's name included in the meta-tags of the CAC site, so that it would be pulled up when people did internet searches for the restaurant? The owners of the restuarant should have thought about the consequences of becoming ex-students of Maharaji, and then being foolish enough to talk about it. Maharaji has warned his students many times of the certian consequences of being ungrateful.

Why, the whole idea of a forum for ex-students of Maharaji to talk about their doubts is just so silly! If they get hurt while doing so, it really is there own fault, you know. Besides, the SOS/CAC site just says that they are all ex-students of Maharaji (and we all know what that means), and that is the truth, so what is wrong with saying so? They really need to take resposibility for that, and accept the consequeces. Their whining is just so distastful and boring. They won't even look at their own faults, (which is why the CAC authors HAD to list them on the site), and then the ex-students get mad when we don't want to talk about it. Why on earth would we want to talk about anything like THAT? And doubting the purity of the Mas- er, Teacher, that is just too foolish, I won't go their.

Me, I follow Maharaji's teachings, and I leave no room for doubt in my mind, and it works just beautifully. All this ex-premie nonsense is just food for the mind, I mean, the Doubtmaker. Why would anyone want to do that when they could be happy instead? If you would just condsider THIS (what I'm telling you) and not THAT (all that other unimportant Doubtmaker food-stuff), you wouldn't have lost That Understanding, if indeed you ever had it at all. I mean, really, if you DID have it, how could you just throw it way, unless you are defective somehow? Not that I would ever say such a thing, because really, I am nice, and normal and not in a cult, too.

Anyway, I must rush off now, and dress for dinner. We are having friends over for dinner, who also happen to be students of Maharaji. And you know something? We are all so normal, we may not even mention Maharaji's name even once during the evening! How is that for not being in a cult? Pretty good, I would say!

Gratefull for the Teacher and That Experience,

Andrea Eriksonn,

A nice person who is normal and has 2.5 nice kids, a nice husband, a nice dog, a nice home and nice cars and a normal life with nice friends and a nice teacher who only wants me to think about nice things. What could possibly be nicer? Oh, and definitly NOT in a cult! (that's just so SILLY!)

p.s. I'm sorry you are all so unhappy, but really, it is all your own fault. And as Maharaji always says, the door is allways open, you can come back anytime you want! You don't even have to send him nice cards or letters, because he doesn't read them anyway, he just wants the checks. And if you sign up for automatic credit card deductions, you don't even have to send checks! See, Maharaji really DOES make it all easier all the time. I'm so gratefull! Oh but I really MUST go now, I think the colored help in the kitchen are burning something. I won't even yell at them, because I'm nice and not in a cult, and they don't have Knowledge, and I do (Gotta just LOVE That Understanding, don't you?) Toodle Loo!

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 23:32:55 (EST)
From: Fred Newman
Email: None
To: Andrea Eriksonn
Subject: Will you tell the Maharaja
Message:
I am glad that this isn't a cult and that you are all normal. So please will you tell the Maharaja that the vacuum method will work well in enlarging his ''personal space'' and I can let him have the fitted pump and the full works at discount price.

I was interested to read here that he might have a problem in that area and I must say, the vacuum pump method did wonders for me and tell him also, it'll even work if he's had a bit too much to drink!

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 21:47:33 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Andrea Eriksonn
Subject: ...Not even the other THING
Message:
Ahhh! Does it get any funnier?

My favorites:

And doubting the purity of the Master, Teacher, that is just too foolish, I won't go their.

Me, I follow Maharaji's teachings, and I leave no room for doubt in my mind, and it works just beautifully.

We are having friends over for dinner, who also happen to be students of Maharaji. And you know something? We are all so normal, we
may not even mention Maharaji's name even once during the evening!
How is that for not being in a cult?

A nice person who is normal and has 2.5 nice kids, a nice husband, a nice dog, a nice home and nice cars and a normal life with nice friends and a nice teacher who only wants me to think about nice things. What could possibly be nicer? Oh, and definitly NOT in a cult! (that's just so SILLY!)

I'm sorry you are all so unhappy, but really, it is all your own fault.

And of course, who could forget.

I think the colored help in the kitchen are burning something. I
won't even yell at them, because I'm nice and not in a cult, and they don't have Knowledge, and I do

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 18:45:27 (EST)
From: Sister Helen Wheels
Email: None
To: All
Subject: WHO DID THAT??!!
Message:
Dear Evil Ex-premies, stained as you are with the blot of original sin:

I want to know right now! You little hateful evil devils! According to the website put up by those loving non-cult premies, to really give it to you (http://user.netomia.com/HaltOnLineABuse/), you have done the following sinful, disgusting thing, probably for the purpose of engaging in self abuse:

Doctored photos of Maharaji, adding genitalia and other pornographic images, and posted these photos on the internet.

This is just too shocking!!! You are all going to hell, that's for sure.

But I have one question: Doesn't Maharaji already have genitalia? If he does, why would you need to add more? Is he, um, short in that department?

I mean, if he is missing genitalia, it is sinful for you to make fun of the poor man like that, even if he is a heathen and will be going to hell for all eternity because he is not baptised! I am shocked. Where can I see those pictures, by the way?

Good bless you dears. I will pray for your evil souls, which are doomed to perpetual torture in Pergatory, along with babies who died before they were baptised, and people who ate meat on Friday before Vatican II.

Sister Helen Wheels, BVM, Sisters of Perpetual Sorrow

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 15:12:24 (EST)
From: ****
Email: None
To: Sister Helen Wheels
Subject: SHW
Message:
You are no more then the dirt.
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 18:38:55 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: ****
Subject: Re: SHW
Message:
I think it's 'You are no more THAN the dirt. And whats wrong with dirt anyway?
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 00:02:58 (EST)
From: Brother Hal N. Back
Email: None
To: Sister Helen Wheels
Subject: Yes, where are the pix?
Message:
Oh yes, please tell us where these unholy digital genitalia photos are.
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 01:04:23 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Brother Hal N. Back
Subject: Visit House of Drek
Message:
That's where the pics can be found, although I don't think there's any of M's genitalia. More CAC lies. But there are some very funny photos of our former Lord and Master. These photos are the second most visited Rawat related web space.

Marianne

PS Link to House of Drek can be located by clicking on link to other websites found up top.

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 17:23:50 (EST)
From: Brother Hal N. Back
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Been there Marianne
Message:
Oh, you mean those most irreverant Faux Krishna with 84 DDD juggies photos. Yes, I've see those. Tres amusement n'est ce pas? The bishop is being a real SOB about finding those pix on the parrish hard drive but he'll get over it soon.

Brother Hal who is a good friend of Postie

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 22:39:58 (EST)
From: Taffy
Email: None
To: Sister Helen Wheels
Subject: Excuse me, but would you...
Message:
... by any chance, happen to to be THEE Sister Helen Wheels? If so, then that's just too shocking! And if you are not the same person, then Lord Help us, if there's more than one!

- Sister Taffy, of the Friends of Baby Jesus (and the enemy of all weird belief system CULTS)

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 22:53:35 (EST)
From: Sister Mary Mae Hem
Email: None
To: Taffy
Subject: No, Sr. Helen has only one 'L'
Message:
Sister Hellen Wheels is somebody else, dear.
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 23:10:11 (EST)
From: Sister Rossetta
Email: None
To: Sister Mary Mae Hem
Subject: Sister, don't even...
Message:
... talk to that Harlot Taffy. I have proof that Sister Taffy is not what she appears to be. She's the Devil's own, she's not fooling THIS bride of Christ! She's been trying to spread her wicked ways on the AG forum, now she thinks she can get a foothold here. But I won't let her! Neither should you, be warned!!! Such lunacy belongs on AG, not here!

Yours in Our Lord,

Sister Rossetta, The Lavender Nun

P.S. If it get's to boring here, come over to my site and Dance with Jesus.

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:07:39 (EST)
From: Meher Baba
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Yet another one...
Message:
Here we go again. Stumbled across this guy's book today. Meher Baba, son of Babalamadingdong, of the famous Ramalama sect of the Doowopdidydums. Man, how many of these cats are (were) there out there? Another Perfect Master with the Divine Knowledge con.

The Path of Love
Meher Baba

Format: Quality soft cover, 129 pages.
ISBN: 0877283095
Second printing (c) 1986 Awakener Press.

The Path of Love is a collection of Meher Baba’s teachings which covers the whole range of religious and spiritual ideas from basic theories about God and the nature of man to advice on how to conduct our daily lives on the spiritual path. Because Meher Baba’s viewpoint is that of one who has himself attained God-realization, his words not only teach on an intellectual level but also awaken the reader on the intuitive level to his own God-essence.

Author Bio: (1894-1969) Merwan Sheriar Irani known as Meher Baba, was born in Pune, India, on February 25, 1894, of Persian parents. His father, Sheriar Irani, was of Zoroastrian faith and a true seeker of God. Merwan went to a Christian high school in Pune and later attended Deccan College. In 1913 while still in college, a momentous event occurred in his life...the meeting with Hazrat Babajan, an ancient Mohammedan woman and one of the five Perfect Masters of the Age. Babajan gave him God-Realization and made him aware of his high spiritual destiny.

Eventually he was drawn to seek out another Perfect Master, Upasni Maharaj, a Hindu who lived in Sakori. During the next seven years Maharaj gave Merwan 'Gnosis' or Divine Knowledge. Thus Merwan attained spiritual Perfection. His spiritual mission began in 1921 when he drew together his first close disciples. It was these early disciples who gave him the name Meher Baba, which means 'Compassionate Father'.

After years of intensive training of his disciples, Meher Baba established a colony near Ahmednagar that is called Meherabad. Here the Master's work embraced a free school where spiritual training was stressed, a free hospital and dispensary, and shelters for the poor. No distinction was made between the high castes and Untouchables; all mingled in common fellowship through the inspiration of the Master. To his disciples at Meherabad, who were of different castes and creeds, he gave a training of moral discipline, love for God, spiritual understanding and selfless service.

Meher Baba told his disciples that from July 10, 1925 he would observe Silence. Since that day he maintained his Silence until his death in 1969. His many spiritual discourses and messages have been dictated by means of an alphabet board. Much later the Master discontinued the use of the board and reduced all communication to hand gestures unique in expressiveness and understandable to many.

Meher Baba has traveled to the Western world six times, first in 1931, when he contacted his early Western disciples. His last visit to American was in 1958 when he and his disciples stayed at the Center established for his work at Myrtle Beach, S.C.

In India as many as one hundred thousand people have come in one day to seek his Darshan, or blessing; from all over the world there are those who journey to spend a few days, even a single day, in his presence.

An important part of Meher Baba's work through the years has been to personally contact and to serve hundreds of those known in India as 'masts'. These are advanced pilgrims on the spiritual path who have become spiritually intoxicated from direct awareness of God. For this work he has traveled many thousands of miles to remote places throughout India and Ceylon. Other vital work has been the washing of the lepers, the washing of the feet of thousands of poor and the distribution of grain and cloth to the destitute.

Meher Baba asserts that he is the same Ancient One, come again to redeem man from his bondage of ignorance and to guide him to realize his true Self which is God. Meher Baba is acknowledged by his many followers all over the world as the Avatar of the Age.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 06:46:36 (EST)
From: don
Email: None
To: Meher Baba
Subject: Re: Yet another one...
Message:
pete townshend from the who had a meher baba center in london back
in the seventies...
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 22:47:34 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Meher Baba
Subject: Spiritualism made easy 129 pages
Message:
Everything you need to know about life and the universe condensed version. What was the price on this gem anyway?

Whatever the cost of the book, in the long run it would turn out to be considerably less than the 'free' product peddled by M and the cult.

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 21:27:25 (EST)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: Meher Baba
Subject: Re: Yet another one...
Message:
''Meher Baba told his disciples that from July 10, 1925 he would observe Silence. Since that day he maintained his Silence until his death in 1969.''

And his point was what...........?

''In India as many as one hundred thousand people have come in one day to seek his Darshan, or blessing''

Did he darshan people the same way rawat does, because if he did, those folks were awfully darn fast. There are only 86,400 seconds in a 24 hour day, and with 100,000 people a day wanting to slobber on his feet.............wow, quick kissers, I'd say.

Jeez..........you see one perfect master, you've seen 'em all.

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:30:05 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Meher Baba
Subject: Meher Baba inHollywood
Message:
He made movie stars (including Rita Hayworth, who leaked the story) scrub his bathroom everyday and went to two movies a day. His excuse for going to the movies was that, by sitting among the audience, he was liberating them.
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:21:27 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Meher Baba
Subject: intoxicated from direct awareness of god? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 14:49:57 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: All
Subject: Prem trashes ALL premie mail!
Message:
Down below in John Mac's excellent long and detailed post, which should finally silence the trolls who alleged it was all hoax perpetrated by Lesley + two anonymous sisters - which no-one with half a brain believed anyway (not sure about people with a third of a brain, though...), a few new facts emerged regarding M's organisation, some of which might get overlooked through sheer volume of detail.

The one new piece of information I found disturbing, was the fact that ALL premie mail to Maharaji is automatically destroyed.

For me, this is one of the most damning things I have heard regarding our fake, one-time Messiah. Perhaps THE most damning...

Only because I remember - about two decades ago, during a dark-night-of-the-soul episode, after my brother Peter had just died, aged twenty-two - pouring my fucking heart out in a long letter to my new-found personal saviour and saviour of humanity. I even managed to get his home address off my community co-ordinator. What did I get? Not an effing dickie-bird by way of response. Not even a standard reply from some unpaid minion on mail duty.

Waste of valuable resources, heh, Prem? Folk who could be more usefully employed furnishing your nest with a few more luxury toys..?

My letter was probably just one of thousands of similar missives. Many from disturbed, distressed, freaked-out - potentially suicidal - premies; folk presumably often in need of professional help.

Prem Pal Singh Rawat. You well and truly disgust me.

Pack it in and leave humanity alone, why don't you?

At least until you've discovered the meaning of the word 'humanity'.

Nigel

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 06:17:05 (EST)
From: Andrea Eriksonn
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Really, what ARE you all going on about?????
Message:
You should be GRATEFUL that he never reads any of your whiney, negative, complaining letters. I mean, he said he doesn't know our names, and he doesn't WANT to know. So why would he want to recieve letters from us, when he doesn't even want to know our names, but just deposit our checks?

Several months ago, I had a dark night of the soul after I made the mistake of reading some of the EPO website after my children discovered it on the internet. I wrote to Maharaji asking all sorts of awkward questions about his drinking and drug taking, and having sex with female students and discarding them like yesterdays leftovers, about Jagdeo, the Chinese Fire Drill in India, and money laundering and Monica and all sorts of things that really weren't any of my business. What was I THINKING?!!!

At first, I was dissapointed when I recieved no answer. Then I became worried, that perhaps The Master, I mean, the Teacher, was mad at me, and perhaps my name was put on a special black list or something. Would You-Know-Who ever let me kiss You-Know-What again? My wonderful, happy life was being infected by the doubts of ex-students.

But now this John whats-his-name comes out of the closet on F7 and reveals that Maharaji throws away the mail without reading it. You all make it sound so terrible, but I was SO RELIEVED that he didn't read my letter, because now there may still be a chance that my husband, Scotch, and I may be invited for a cruise on Maharaji's yacht if we donate enough money! Once again, I see as positive something you all seem to think is negative.

Maharaji simply doesn't want to hear about all your problems, he drinks enough without having all his negative students drive him to drink even more. I realize now that I only wrote that letter because I talked to ex-students, and got caught up in all their negativity, which only encouraged my Doubtmaker. I started to think in ways that weren't making me happy, and started to question, to DOUBT the Master. The Master-Teacher. It began to interfere with That Understanding, and before I knew it, I was miserable. And Scotch really disapproved.

I now see that it was all because I began to entertain the Doubtmaker in my mind, even though Maharaji kindly warned me about that so many times. So I just threw away ALL my concerns about what ex-students of Maharaji think, the same way he throws away all your letters, because he is very wise and has to throw away your negative letters to be able to continue in his work vacationing and speaking all over the world without your confusion dogging him. I mean really, you people and your shitty, negative letters, you even tricked me into sending him one, why don't you just send him some ANTHRAX, huh? You are SO ungrateful. I could NEVER be as ungrateful as you, because I'm not in a cult.

And just to prove I'm not in a cult, I decided to make lemonade out of the lemons of my sour exprerience of not being able to answer awkward questions from ex-students (not to mention my children). I created the ''Please Consider This, not THAT'' website, which has helped me and other students of Maharaji become experts at not considering THAT stuff you people are always going on about. Maharaji himself is the perfect roll model for this, by his example. He throws away your letters unread, ignores your complaints, mocks people with questions, and really enjoys his life. And he wisely avoids news media and ex-students and other people who would interfere with That Understanding.

I am now resolved to do the same, which is why I won't publish or respond to your negative comments and questions on my website. I mean, really. Isn't it obvious? Who cares what YOU all think? If you were syncronised, it would all make sense. But you're not sycrnonized, so why waste precious time arguing with you? I'd rather work on my website and Leave No Room For Doubt In My Mind, lest I end up like YOU.

Haven't you even figured out that you don't have to love Prempal Rawat? It's Mawagi that it's all about.

One in That Understanding,

- Andrea Eriksonn,

Who is going to have sex now, and definitely WON'T be thinking of Prempal Rawat during that, which is even more proof that I'm not in a cult. :)

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 05:14:22 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Except for the ones....
Message:
Sally Reader used to answer letters way back when. She would always enclose a picture of his Lardship and in it something like, By His Grace or At His Feet, or some nonsense like that.

I wrote to Durga Ji once in 1983 and got a letter/reply from her. It was actually quite a nice and very loving letter, but she always was a sweetheart. Still have it around somewhere.

She actually sent me several books on pregancy and babies.
I remember one was 'Loving Hands' by Frederick LeBoyer.
Maharaji is a damn fool for not sticking with her.

Take care, Tonette

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 00:27:35 (EST)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: I got an answer too, in 1981.
Message:
Or maybe '82. Anyhow I asked him if he were the Messiah, and got a response from someone (not him, but some unpaid flunky psychoslave) that, in fact, he was not the Messiah but the spiritual version of Pepto Bismal. At that point I just figured I'd go it alone, since I wasn't exactly sick anyway. Turns out he was the spiritual version of Ipecac.

--Scott

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 23:25:45 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Actually I got an answer back once
Message:
It was a form letter signed by one of M's personal staff members, said that M loves us all very much, and is happy that we are continuing to make effort, stay in touch and always remember to meditate and realize this knowledge etc.

The difference here is I did not mail the letter, I gave it to Michael Donner directly to give it to the boss, Michael probably does not remember the occasion but it was at one of the LA programs in 82.

Thanks for following through Michael, I know that you probably got hammered on everywhere with people jockeying for access to M. Anyway it must have gotten passed through the system somehow, because I did get a token response, albeit a weak gesture considering that I poured my heart and soul into the blasted thing.

The reason Donner ended up with the letter was because I was going to read it out loud to m at the question and answer portion of the program.

What happened was at the end of M's talk where at that time he had typically been allowing the Q&A thing, he just up and bolted off the stage with no such concession. Then I saw Donner and earnestly plead my case, he took the letter and assured me that he would do what he could to get it to M.

I was really miffed at the way M ran offstage so suddenly, now I thank my lucky stars that I was spared possibly one of my life's most embarrassing moments, publicly flogging myself, bareing my soul in front of the guru and the assembled cult members.

Wow, maybe there is some grace in there after all.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 09:56:04 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Bogus reply
Message:
I was having a very difficult time after entering the ashram. Initiator Grace something or other told me that I only needed darshan.
Of course I wrote to M and received a reply from some bogus person on his behalf, quoting his satsang about us being like those zippy little jets (can't remember the kind) that burn up fuel really fast.

It was a completely stupid, insulting and insipid reply. Shortly after, there was a program, I think the Philadelphia one with the garland outfit, and Marolyn gave satsang. She said that a letter had come to the residence and that this premie didn't deserve to be at the event but that they were. Of course, I was so filled with guilt that I thought she was talking about me. I woke up sick and stayed at the hotel until the very last shuttle, receiving more guilt from premies saying I shouldn't be in bed. On the way to the program, M's motorhome passed us on the freeway. He just kinda looked at us as he was talking; I remember his hand moving about.

Personally, I wish no one would have responded. It was more depressing to get a bogus reply, and there was already more than enough depression to go around in the ashram.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 11:59:04 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: I wrote M every day....
Message:
During the mid-70s I wrote to m every single day. Sally Reeder and Dot Proctor were doing the mail answering service and I still have all the responses (quite a few).

Cynthia, once a gopi, now free

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:39:43 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Really??
Message:
Every day? When I was at IHQ Dot and Sally had the 'service' of answering M's mail. I actually fell for the idea that they had his 'grace' to answer the letters, and so the responses were 'perfect' and from Maharaji, the master.

Anyhow, one time in Miami I was practically suicidal I was so miserable, and I wrote a pleading letter and just left it on Sally's desk. I didn't even bother to mail it, because, why? Anyhow, Sally mailed a response to me, and it was just a quote from some satsang of M, completely irrelevent to what was happening with me. Then, because it helped me ZERO, I blamed myself even more fore being such a lousy devotee.

But every day? You must have been the gopiest of them all! :)

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:39:45 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Maharaji never answered my letters
Message:
About a year before I left his cult entirely, I was sincerely trying to get answers from Maharaji, or at least some acknolwedgement that he even knew I was alive. I sent two letters, one registered and never got any response. I gave another letter to an Initiator who assured me he would get the the letter to Maharaji personally. I don't know if the Initiator was able to do that, but I never got any response to that, either.

At least in the early days, Dot Proctor and Sally Reeder had the 'service' of responding to M's mail. But with no ashrams anymore, and the pressure of Ferraris, yachts and planes, I'm sure that 'service' was disbanded.

To this day, I have never gotten even an acknowledgement that M even got my letters, let alone that he responded to them. I'm sure they went directly into the trash. This was after being his devotee for almost 10 years.

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:30:10 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: Prem trashes ALL premie mail!
Message:
Trashing the mail is a common practice among religious frauds. Robert Tilton, the insane television evangelist had his people remove the cheques from his mail and then trash the letters requesting prayers. I'll bet those letters of M's were inspected for cheques or cash before they were trashed.
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:22:55 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: There goes my powder idea [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 10:11:04 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Careful, Bill.... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:07:39 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: I always suspected that....
Message:
....he never read any premie mail but I thought he got the church-ladies to read them. This is a really low blow and will haunt him forever. No one that cynical and uncaring can sleep easily. No wonder he is a drunkard. May his soul rot in hell for all eternity.
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:48:20 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: All
Subject: THE watch collection
Message:
Has anyone seen this watch collection of M's or knows someone who has? Just how big is this cache and what brand of watches are they?
Is an estimated value possible?
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 13:50:26 (EST)
From: david m
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: THE watch collection
Message:
Vicki..I know for sure he has a Rolex GMT..Circa 1975..God that was nice of me..I know he needed it so badly...Peace...david m
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:47:30 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: All
Subject:
Message:
Has anyone seen this watch collection of M's or knows someone who has? Just how big is this cache and what brand of watches are they?
Is an estimated value possible?
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:28:22 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Background on CAC
Message:
For anyone who didn't notice, the 'new' CAC attack has reinstated the CAC website on the Internet. There are also a couple of new ones in which ex-premies are compared to neo-Nazis, and terrorist groups.

Here's the statement from the victims with FIRST time CAC showed up in August:

STATEMENT BY VICTIMS ATTACKED BY THE MAHARAJI CULT

August 30, 2001

The undersigned were recently attacked by unnamed premies (devotees of Maharaji), by means of an Internet website called “Citizens Against Cyberstalking” (www.stopcyberstalkers.org) which, at first glance, appeared to be a public service to the victims of harassment. These premies targeted the twelve of us, who are all former followers of Maharaji (“ex-premies”), by labeling us criminal “cyberstalkers,” and by listing our names with eight other alleged “cyberstalkers” who included child molesters and kidnappers.

The website was an incitement to anyone viewing the site to contact our employers, families, professional associations, licensing bureaus, and other entities to inform them that we had engaged in criminal activity. The website provided corresponding addresses, telephone numbers and email links for them to easily do so. The website also included our pictures, disclosed addresses of our homes and businesses, telephone numbers and email addresses. In one extreme attempt at intimidation, the authors of the website even went so far as to provide the picture of the young child of one of the ex-premies, and listed the address of where the child lived. It also included false, out-of-context, and misleading information about all of us, including twisted and fabricated quotes these premies used as “proof” of their allegations of our mental illness or criminal activity.

The obvious goal of these premies was to blackmail and intimidate us so that we would refrain from posting about Maharaji and his cult on the Internet. The perpetrators specifically offered to refrain from further blackmail if the victim did so. Sadly, one of our numbers, so frightened about the safety of his daughter whose picture and address were displayed, capitulated publicly to the blackmail and his name was then removed from the “cyberstalker” list.

We believe we were singled out for attack from among the hundreds of ex-premies who have posted on the Internet because we are perceived to have been effective in helping premies who no longer want to be a part of the Maharaji cult, who were staying out of fear or other reasons, to leave the cult by supplying information that has been kept secret by the cult for many years, and by generally offering them support. Some of us were targeted because of what would appear to be our particular vulnerability to blackmail. Three out of the twelve appear to have been chosen because they are gay, one appears to have been chosen because his child was vulnerable to attack, and most of us were chosen partly because we have posted under our own names on the Internet, and hence were easily identifiable.

The website authors claimed that as premies they, themselves, have been the victims of defamation, harassment and other illegal activities at the hands of ex-premies, but no proof whatsoever was provided. Much less, no proof was provided that any of us, the actual victims of the website, had engaged in any such activities, and we categorically deny that we have done so.

Although the perpetrators claim to consist of four individuals, we have reason to believe that Elan Vital, the front organization for Maharaji, and Maharaji himself, may have instigated, contributed to, or condoned this attack. We have been informed by reliable sources that Elan Vital has been “monitoring,” collecting data on, and even doing external investigations of, ex-premies who have posted on the Internet about Maharaji. We have also been informed that Elan Vital has assigned monitors to review our postings to compile extensive files on all of us, and we feel there is good reason to believe, based on the nature of the attack and who was chosen for the attack, that that information compiled by Elan Vital was used to prepare the website, and to defame and attempt to intimidate us. Whether the Elan Vital hierarchy officially condoned the use of this information is difficult to know.

Under the circumstances, we find Elan Vital’s press release of August 23, 2001, both utterly inadequate and insulting, because it does not specifically condemn this attack, and it blames the victims for causing it. We are concerned because the press release is yet another “dig” at ex-premies, and might encourage the more fanatical of Elan Vital’s members to do something similar. We also suspect that Prem Pal Singh Rawat (aka Maharaji) may have been personally involved, at least to the extent of tacit approval, since to date we are aware of no public statement by him disavowing the website and its perpetrators.

After threats of legal action were made publicly by several of us, the website was modified on August 23, 2001 and replaced with a statement that the premies behind the site would be contributing their “database of resources” to two unnamed organizations. This statement, which implies further dissemination of the defamatory material, as well as the possibility that it or a similar website could appear at any time, makes it even more alarming that we have yet to see any statement whatsoever from Mr. Rawat about this, nor have we seen any evidence of attempts by him to attempt to stop his more fanatic devotees from doing anything similar in the future. Since the perpetrators claim personal allegiance to Mr. Rawat and his teachings, we feel Mr. Rawat has a moral and ethical obligation to make such a public statement.

This event is an ominous sign. Until recently, most of us believed that the more fanatical elements had died out years ago after the Mahatma Fakiranand incident in the 1970s. But these events, as well as earlier attempts by Mr. Rawat’s lawyers to shut down the websites through which ex-premies share information, lead us to believe that the Maharaji cult may be headed in the same direction as other destructive cults, such as Scientology, which attack former members who disclose critical information and opinions. Since we the undersigned stand behind our statements and opinions, and do so by not being anonymous, and because we intend to continue speaking about the subjects of Mr. Rawat and our former cult, we are understandably concerned about our safety.

We can understand why the cult is concerned about us, to the extent of wanting us to be intimidated off the Internet. In addition to providing a support for premies leaving the cult, ex-premies have been extremely effective in publicizing the fact that Maharaji is not at all the person he has tried to project, and in fact he has serious personal flaws that he has attempted over the years, with great effort, to keep secret.

We have also pointed out that Maharaji's priorities do not appear to be what he professes. During the same time he has amassed immense wealth for himself personally, he has failed utterly in 'spreading knowledge' and has thousands fewer followers today in the West than he had 20 years ago. He rarely does 'introductory programs,' rarely advertises his existence or that of 'knowledge,' and has shown little interest in doing anything other than retaining his core audience, his dwindling group of devotees from the 70s, and engaging in technological gimmicks, pretending that these are finally going to spread the word, after 30 years of failed attempts.

If anyone needs any proof of the fact that Maharaji has reverted to his “Lord of the Universe” roots to retain these devotees, they need only note that as recently as a few months ago, in a high-security enclave in Australia, Maharaji had these devotees sing ARTI to him, a lengthy Hindu song premies sang to him in the 70s, which clearly describes Maharaji as a deity, and more extreme yet, Maharaji had those same devotees line up by the hundreds to kiss his feet. Neither Maharaji, nor Elan Vital, are about to tell any potential aspirant that such events occur in the year 2001, as Elan Vital deceptively presents Maharaji to the unsuspecting world as northing more than a entirely secular, modern, meditation master. But if these people happen to turn to the Internet, they just might learn the whole truth, and armed with more complete information, make up their own minds about who Maharaji is and what he offers. For these reasons, we will not be intimidated from providing a public service by speaking out freely about Maharaji.

Joseph Whalen
Anthony Ginn
Marianne Bachers
Jeffrey Leason
William Williams
Salam Al-Ahmar
Michael Dettmers
Patrick Conlon
Jim Heller
Jean-Michel Kahn
Gerry Lyng

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:34:54 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Background on CAC
Message:
According to John McGregor's (Pam's) post below, it appears that the highest echelons of EV were involved in developing the strategy for these sites. His revelations have great legal significance.

Marianne

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 21:20:16 (EST)
From: Mr. Observation
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Background on CAC
Message:
Talk about vile and disgusting. The CAC website and others are a perfect representation of all the deception, fear and lack of responsibility that EPO has been dedicated to exposing about margie and his minions. Predictably, the very crime it is crying wolf about is the one it is itself perpetrating. It's apparently not enough that the people being attacked on these sites gave the best years of their lives - some giving 25 years or more not to mention large dinaros and complete servitude - to the greedy preening pig in the Krishna crown and gucci loafers. Now they have to endure these scandalous defamations from totally faceless accusers on so-called anti-cyber-stalking websites - patently, the sole purpose being to try to salvage margie's reputation. If anything untrue or unsubstantiated is being said about margie and his org then libel lawsuits against the individuals (who clearly identified themselves - and CAC has physically located) should take care of it. But no, these severely deluded and anonymous cowards think they are helping margie counter those who would interfere with his mission. Margie's defiant refusal to own his own past - accept responsibility for errors in judgement and direction - and actually treat his (ex)followers with love and respect - is what is causing his downfall.
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:12:07 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: CAC Update
Message:
I understand that the Maharaji cult now has FOUR, count them, FOUR illegal, criminal attack sites targeting ex-premies. I wonder how Mitch Ditkoff and the Andersen twins justify this kind of behavior with their arguments that they really aren't in a cult. Comparmentalized thinking, I guess. One wonders if they will ever get around to saying anything about it.

Fortunately, one of the four sites has been dropped by Angelfire. After I complained, telling them that members of the Maharaji cult were going after ex-followers because they don't want us criticizing their cult leader, they removed the website. Here's the email I received today:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting the Lycos Network Abuse Department.

The member and/or site you reported to the Terra-Lycos Abuse Team has
been removed from our servers.

I wanted to clarify that the creator of the page is in no way directly
associated with Tripod, Angelfire, or the Lycos Network. Neither Tripod
nor Angelfire exercise any editorial control over what our members place
on their pages nor their other Internet related activities.

To report any further violations, feel free to visit
http://reportabuse.lycos.com.

I hope you will find that our prompt response addresses your concerns.
If you have any further questions or comments, please do not hesitate
to contact us.

Sincerely,

Fred

Terra Lycos Network Abuse Specialist
http://reportabuse.lycos.com

Thanks, Fred. One down, but three more, including the 'mirror' of the site removed are still up there.

You know, I feel really bad about this, not because I'm one of the victims of this amazingly foul, vile activity, but because I still, to this day, hold onto the notion that premies are basically sincere, loving people who wouldn't resort to criminal activity to protect their cult. I guess I have to discard that notion.

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:15:19 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: COPY those sites!!!
Message:
I would like to request that people make copies of those websites, quickly. They may not be around much longer, and the evidence needs to be preserved.
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:06:40 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Did someone COPY those sites!!!
Message:
I hear that they are down.
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:43:18 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Apostates and New Religions? those sites!!!
Message:
I copied the site that listed my name on it, and also every single page on the Angelfire CAC site. Did you know that on one of it's resources pages, it had a long disertation about the reliability (or un-reliability) of testimoney by ''apostates'' of ''new-religions''?

An interesting item to have on a site that is supposed to be about stoping cyberstalking (as apposed to being just a front for protecting a cult). It's interesting too because it implies that what M is teaching is a ''New Religion'' after all. Is the spin doctoring spinning out of control?

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:09:35 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: I have the home pages and exes profiles [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:10:20 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Yea!!! Spot on [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 12:36:35 (EST)
From: Pam
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The Second Coming
Message:
SPOT THE DIFFERENCE:

1. 'In early July I spoke in five cities around Korea. There, I declared that my wife, WFWP
President Hak Ja Han Moon, and I are the True Parents of all humanity. I declared that we are the
Savior, the Lord of the Second Advent, the Messiah.'

Rev. Moon
Unification News August 24, 1992

2. 'Sri Sai Baba lived, acted and behaved as only a 'God descended on Earth' can.'

Website of the late Sai Baba of Shirdi

3. 'Leland told me, 'Swami's job isn't to make you happy, it's to liberate you.' In his case, that
meant giving up his career as a motivational speaker and then his marriage. 'Sai Baba is the most
powerful being that ever came to the planet,' he said... Somewhere between 10 million and 50
million people worship Sai Baba as God incarnate.'

salon.com story on the currently living Sai Baba

4. 'Has there been such a king before? Krishna was not such a king. Rama was not such a king.
There were lesser powers in Ram, there were lesser powers in Krishna, but I have come to the world
with full powers.'

Maharaji (Peace Bomb)

5. Doctor (approaching bed of mental patient): Good morning - what's your name?

Patient: Napoleon.

Doctor: I see... And who told you you were Napoleon?

Patient: God told me.

Voice from next bed: I did not!

Dear Ex-folk - and premies,
There were quite a few posts so far in response to my first one (I gave up counting after 200), so
it may be hard to respond to everyone individually, unless I hire secretarial staff. Therefore
I'll just say general things, and respond to some popular themes. If I've dodged a specific
question you asked, it's probably because I don't know the answer - tho you can try me again if
you think it's important.

Most responses were very positive - thanks. I feel a little safer here now, and am inching toward
posting under my real name. But I'll do this in my own time - so no pressure please. Try to
remember what it's like in those first fragile, difficult months. The fragility is compounded when
you send off a post like my last one, by 200+ posters wanting more information - as well as premie
critics saying either I don't exist or I made it all up. On top of that, the Pam post was
circulated quite widely from exes to premies, then from premies to other premies - with the result
that there was an EV campaign to unearth Pam. This resulted in quite a few waverers and recent
exiters being hassled by EV - including myself.

On top of that, many of those whom I could formerly talk to about problems of this magnitude are
avoiding me. And the entire intellectual framework I would have had for dealing with it is gone.
So be kind, and be patient.

Additionally, whilst one's rational mind has finally realized that Maharaji has blown it
(seriously and forever), one's nervous system still has some catching up to do: so doubts and
fears surface regularly. It's not an easy time.

I say this not merely to evoke pity for myself (!), but to warn premie readers of what lies ahead
for them, when the dissolution of Maharaji's Western empire gathers steam over the next year or
two. The transition out of cloud cuckoo land is not a comfortable one: be ready for some serious
intensity. But also be aware that there is a large global community of (IMO) helpful, insightful
people who will do anything they can to help you.

For all the raucousness of the forum, the ex-premie community is everything the premie community
should have been, but signally failed to be: egalitarian, compassionate, irreverent, mutually
supportive. The ex-premie community also embraces the free flow of information. After the years of
EV's information-suppression, in-group secrets and language-distortion, this feels to me like a
borderline spiritual experience.

I might add, for the benefit of exes, that the next year or so will (IMO) be one which taxes us as
never before. The trickle of defectors (i.e. people needing an awful lot of help) is likely to
grow into a torrent.

Anyway... As for the claim of fabricating or embellishing my information, I guess this is
reasonable speculation: after all, I didn't give the names of the people from whom the information
derives. (They/we didn't want this.)

For all that, I think a lot of my information can be checked for accuracy.

For instance, there may be someone on this forum who could ask Glen whether he wrote the
confidential 'Jagdeo' memorandum to Deepak when I said he did. (Less than half a dozen people in
EV saw this memo: it was not exactly plastered across First Class.)

Someone else may know a person who is or was in the Personal/Executive Area, who could verify
whether M's staff are trained to lie to Marolyn about Monica. Numerous staff have been trained in
this: it has been institutionalized for some years. I can't believe we can't find at least one
person to confirm it here.

Someone else may have been to the IOC in Delhi in the late 1990s, and seen Jagdeo there. (For the
record, we exchanged a few words, then he picked up the phone on the windowsill of the small IOC
office, and began making a call.)

An so on. Those doing the checking could then report back to the forum.

Obviously not everything could be corroborated - premies, even exes, may not talk about everything
- but perhaps enough to form a 'pattern of credibility' (Jim no doubt can give us the correct
legal phrase), and thus satisfy the critics.

There are people lurking on this forum already, BTW, who (collectively) could verify nearly
everything in these posts. So far they don't feel this is a safe place for them. I hope that will
change.

There's also the small matter of EV's Pam-hunt of recent weeks. Quite a few premies who haven't
been heard from for a while, among others, have been called up by EV organizers and instructors in
various parts of the US and Australia, in a quest for Pam. If the post was a series of fictions,
or mere embellishments of known facts, why all the fuss?

For the record:

The information in my posts derives from my own experience, the experiences of exes whom I know
well, and the experiences of premies who are still in the fold. I am a real person. I am not a
regular poster here. I am not a fiction created by a regular poster here. I am not an amalgam of
several people. I have told very few people of my identity, and none of them has told anyone else
- let alone told a premie. (Though there have been several Pam 'confirmations' implicating the
wrong person.)

I did not get any information whatever from the forum archives or from recent posts - except
perhaps when I referred in passing to an accepted fact, e.g. that Jagdeo molested children.

Everything I said is true. Well, I did get a date wrong. (See a forthcoming post.) And the
crucial, all-important arti trays were a bit of poetic license. (In reality I don't know whether
there were arti trays at Amaroo in April - but I'm happy to accept that there were not, from those
who noticed.)

I was an EV organizer for nearly three decades, and, as I said, an occasional PAM. I have worked
for some years in Maharaji's residences.

I don't know how to prove all this to anyone's satisfaction. Maybe some detail will help - a few
reminiscences from my decades of premiedom:

- Marolyn was M's special guest in a private room at the Astrodome (before anyone knew they were
an item).

- The English and American security teams were brawling - especially over the walkie-talkie
allocation - at Millennium.

- Bal Bhagwan Ji (Vishnu and Jesus in one) said 'Isn't it?' after every second sentence.

- Raja Ji (once Brahma, and also King of the World) gives vent to a maniacal, feminine, shrieking
cackle when M tells him jokes.

- Bhole Ji (Shiva - destroyer of the universe, or at least of an awful lot of good music) was
rather mentally slow, and was (last I heard) on Bal Bhagwan Ji's team.

- Mata Ji (Holy Mother of the Universe - or was it God? Or all the gods? I forget.) had a bad
flatulence problem.

(This, BTW, seemed to bother just about everyone except Mata Ji. Mata Ji's problem is possibly the
reason M is so uninhibited in talking about flatulence today.)

Thesedays, Mata Ji is believed to be hosting banquets for departed Third World dictators, and has
her eye on the Virgin Mary's job as Queen of Heaven.

Sorry - I'm off the track...

I could add that M loves his stereo more than most pieces of technology he owns; that he did
private showings of a video of his former Malibu residence being demolished, for PAMs and
residence staff in various cities he visited; that he eats large amounts of red meat, and
particularly enjoys it barbequed; that he sometimes takes two years to finish a painting; that he
used to tell his minders filthy jokes between techniques during Knowledge sessions; that he 'gave
darshan' to a number of women I know, one-to-one, at his residences over the years (which now
makes me wonder if he was checking them out - though the ones I know are brunettes); that
residence staff labor to place cups, plates, ashtrays, etc as close as possible to where he will
be sitting/standing/passing, to save him the slightest physical effort, as we believed he was
permanently exhausted from his massive task of bringing peace to the world; that the 1997 Aussie
newspaper article which someone recently posted here caused M's non-premie co-pilot to learn who
his boss 'Prem' was for the first time - which angered 'Prem' vastly (co-pilots have flown with M
for long periods of time without knowing who he is); that he got premies onto a cherrypicker to
spraypaint blackened trees green after the LA fires in 1977; that massive care is taken to screen
out insects from his residences as he doesn't like insects, and is particularly scared of spiders,
all of which must be killed before he shows up somewhere; that after a Delhi Holi in the early
1980s (80? 81? 82?), hashish prasad was handed out to all and sundry, with the result that the
whole ashram, including mahatmas, slept or wandered around like zombies for 3 days, and one
particularly 'religious' westerner freaked out and left Knowledge; that M eats chillis raw 4 at a
time, and believes they have euphoric qualities; that at least one recent member of M's personal
staff, who has seen some appalling behavior by M, has in her head 'another Maharaji, whom I don't
want to know about', whom she separates mentally and emotionally from the 'real Maharaji' - which
is about as good as dissociative thinking gets, I guess; and that many PAMs work this same dynamic
by saying, 'I love Maharaji, but I don't like Prem Pal Singh Rawat at all'; that there are regular
stresses, feuds and fallings-out between various members of M's over-worked, under-rested and
under-rewarded residence/executive/traveling staff; that M sometimes lets off steam by blasting
away at rabbits with his rifle; that M's residences and stopovers are always stocked with serious
alcohol in advance of his arrival; that EV's latest corporate mantra is 'targeted outcomes'; that,
despite his temper tantrums on the ground, M is actually very calm and unflustered when traveling
(basically he loves flying and has excellent crew); that plane staff are sworn to secrecy about
goings-on on the plane by M personally; and that M's relationship with Monica has for many years
been a source of considerable tension between Wadi and her father.

What else? The versatile Bobby Hendry sometimes has organized the dining for an entire program
(several thousand people) as well as chopping up and cooking M's dinner - and is also the source
of M's tractor joke; when leaving foreign ports, M's plane staff tend to stay in separate hotels
from him, and to get up as early as 4 in the morning to buy his food for the next leg; the premie
lawyer, Virgil, spent several years in India sorting out the post-Holy Family legal fallout;
Reggie Brown (M's security chief) has returned to the army - indeed he's a three-star general -
and left his office in the Pentagon on Sept 11 five minutes before the terrorist plane went
through it; and - my shocking piece de resistance - Sampuranand, on whose back M used to ride as a
kid, has a soft spot for the cognac.

The situation with M's 'premie-mail' is also worth a mention. As you'd know, thousands of premies
worldwide write to M each year. (You were probably one of them.)

Mostly this mail does not reach Maharaji - nor has it for many years. Generally it is destroyed
unread.

The mechanics are simple: at an event, a premie known to have access to PAMs will be given a
bundle mail to be forwarded to M. The PAM on the spot (e.g. Craig Weeding), knowing the routine,
and after verifying that the bundle does not contain a letter from someone important, will say,
'Throw it in the trash.' It will all then be thrown in the trash.

Occasionally some letters will be salvaged so M can quote from them at an event - but these are
the exceptions.

When M leaves a city where he has a Residence, his mail is left, unopened, in the Residence. It,
too, is thrown in the trash.

It might be worth mentioning this one to your premie friends when the next divine visit is
imminent. It could save them shopping a whole afternoon for the perfect card for the perfect
master, and an evening's work distilling their deepest feelings onto paper. (It still happens,
believe me: I've delivered M's mail myself.)

Would any of the objectors to my last post care to check this out with their PAM friends and
report back to the forum?

On the subject of my last post, I haven't seen any substantial factual criticism to date. (I don't
count 'She made it all up.') If premies - or for that matter exes or fence-sitters - would care to
present concrete evidence counter to things I have claimed to be true, I would be happy to address
it.

That way, we can get final versions of these posts onto EPO (minus the Goebels-like lie about the
arti trays of course) as a permanent written record - and feel ethical about it. I certainly like
the idea of memorializing our experiences and journeys on EPO in this way.

And in light of EPO, it's ironic that one of the long-standing mottos of Elan Vital's
ultra-cautious global PR team is:

'Anything in print is permanent.'

Now that will be too.

I know some of my premie friends will be hurt by this post. Criticising the Master is the final
no-go area. This was a bit of programming installed in our Knowledge sessions, and it's been
well-reinforced ever since. All premies have it - and in my opinion it goes deeper than anything
else. I've seen whole rooms fall silent when someone even hinted that M had made an error: there
was literally nowhere to go with such a topic.

Yet, in assessing my posts, I would simply ask premie readers to use truth as the criterion - as
they would have before Knowledge, and as they still do when evaluating non-Maharaji aspects of
their lives. In other words, to judge what I have written simply on the grounds of whether it is
factual or not. If I have lied, or manufactured information, I deserve all the censure that will
undoubtedly come my way. If I have told the truth, where, then, should the criticism be directed?

I have been hanging out with a lot of premies lately. None of them has ever heard of Jagdeo, or
the Delhi bicyclist, or the blondes. For me, this has been a real insight into the information
restrictions within Maharaji's world. These things are all landmarks in Maharaji's career. Imagine
how well-known they would be if Maharaji were a politician or church leader.
This wall of silence is more often than not a result of self-censorship. It's true that M and EV
aren't exactly free with information, or particularly truthful. But the information is out there,
and the real problem is that most premies don't want it. In my opinion, the assumption of
Maharaji's divinity and infallibility lies behind this.

Anyone who has done Maharaji's trainings will affirm that no criticism of the Master is possible.
No argument with him is countenanced. No correction or amendment of his point of view is allowed.
These things are not allowed by him; they're not allowed by the trainers and PAMs; and - most
significantly - premies do not allow themselves to go down these roads either.

(To underline all the above: in 28 years I only once saw a premie object to something Maharaji
said. This was at the Sept '99 training, when M told 80 of us that there 'is a sickness in this
room, and we have to cut it out'. A very brave premie respectfully replied that if there was a
sickness in the room, then Maharaji must be a part of it too. That premie was verbally cut to
ribbons by Maharaji who, after a protracted screaming fit, stormed out of the room. The premie was
taken on a long walk by a PAM, and set straight.)

Surely the premise behind this extraordinary behavior can only be that Maharaji is infallible.
Otherwise, premies would insist on the right to dialog with Maharaji meaningfully (as we do with
our political leaders, or even leaders within EV at times), and to criticise him and amend his
edicts, where appropriate.

There has never been any such right in Maharaji's world.
This is a very interesting revelation, isn't it? It's a secular, democratic age, where free speech
is enshrined in our national constitutions. We're adults with free will - who may exercise
excellent, objective judgment in all other fields. Yet we believed that the man we allowed to be
our Master could never be criticised - presumably because he could never be mistaken.

The recognition of the fundamental wrongness of this idea - logical wrongness, psychological
wrongness, organisational wrongness, ethical wrongness - is the deepest of rivers for a premie to
cross.

It's doubly hard because to do so would mean acknowledging that what binds one to Maharaji much of
the time is not love but fear.

I saw this fear close-up - sweating, apprehensive faces, shaking bodies, trembling voices,
cringing body language - at the training I attended. It's very real. It's also almost impossible
to acknowledge - because we have, for decades, been the first victims of our own propaganda:
Knowledge is freedom, the Master is compassion (.....and I am Marie of Romania).

Discovering Maharaji's real nature is definitely a tricky business. Of course, given the basic
facts, it would take a fair-minded outsider about thirty seconds. But we are not outsiders: we
have been extensively re-wired at the pre-logical level of our psyches.

Thus: are Maharaji's personal excesses a reflection of his corruption - or a game by which premies
must on no account be distracted? Is his utter certainty about his mission the result of being
raised since infancy to fulfill the role of God incarnate - or of a genuinely special role in the
world? Is his recurrent anger the result of poorly reconciled internal energies, or even excessive
drinking - or of his compassionate desire to drive home to us important lessons as fast and as
well as he can? Is his lying about (for example) his role in promulgating the 1970s 'Indian
concepts' the result of pride, unscrupulousness and self-deception - or of being beyond normal
human morality by virtue of his special role? Is his sexual use of female devotees an abuse of his
extraordinary psychological power over them - or does it derive from an overarching understanding
of their psyches, and concern for their well-being, which others like ourselves simply can't
grasp?

Unbelievably for those of us who have come back through the looking glass, these are questions
which all premies have great difficulty in answering. Some of these people have astronomical IQs.

For some time I had difficulty answering them myself: paradigms as vast as M and K are not
overthrown overnight, especially when they have been implanted in one's formative years. So I put
them in the too-hard basket until I could gain some perspective.

In the interim, I examined the circumstantial evidence, which is less ambiguous. I looked long and
hard at the chronic dysfunction of EV - which goes back three decades. I looked at the lack of
progress - internal and external - in the lives of most premies. I looked at the 99% of premie
marriages which had failed. I looked at the absence of spontaneity at large events. I looked at
the caliber of the people Maharaji has chosen to surround himself with.

Finally I asked myself: Can a good tree bear rotten fruit?

Having neared the end of this 'anonymous' post, and the long inner process of writing it (it's
taken weeks, on and off), I've just been made aware that the CAC websites are back with us.

The timing is fortuitous. Throughout this year, I'd always determined that I would not post here.
But when I heard about the first CAC website (after returning from a ten-week working trip to the
US in August) I decided immediately that it was time to nail my colours to the mast, and posted
here under my own name. (This was a brief, conciliatory post a few weeks ago.) I don't believe one
should ever cave in to CAC tactics: bullying and misinformation have been rewarded for too long in
M's organisation.

Similarly, I was intending to call it a day with this post. But so far as I'm concerned, the
rebirth of the CAC sites are a reason to stand up and be counted. I'm now planning four further
posts:

Maharaji's trainings - which are pivotal to an understanding of his modern approach - are in need
of examination. I also have a little further info on Jagdeo, and other (unnamed) sexual pests.
Thirdly, I'll provide some further elucidation of how money has been raised and processed within
EV.

And finally, very few people realise how serious is EV's present decline. In the next year, the
organisation is to be wound back throughout the West. Indeed it will disappear organisationally
(and probably even legally) in many countries over the next 12 months. Maharaji is currently
scratching his head over what might fill the void. No ideas have been forthcoming. Propagation has
halted. September 11, furthermore, has caused massive financial problems, as major donors jump
ship and pull out loans. In my opinion, the writing is on the wall for the decline and fall of
Maharaji's mission in the West, and the time-frame may be quite a bit shorter than we had
expected. So I'll pen a fourth post on that.

It now seems like a good idea to reveal my identity as well. I'm a little too lazy to go back and
re-write the entire post, so I'll just tack it on here.

Doing this should put to bed doubts about 'Pam's' authenticity, and will moreover allow me to
interact with my premie friends more honestly.

(Several premies and others have asked me if I'm Pam. I apologise for lying - and in some cases
for spinning a bit of disinformation. On the other hand, you did insist on putting me on the spot
before I was ready to come out.
I should add that there were small bits of disinformation in my first post - for example US
spelling, the odd spelling mistake, and my claim to use a PC, when in fact I use Macs. This was to
protect my identity in the course of the inevitable Pam-hunt. None of these bits of disinformation
affect the truth of what I said about M, K and EV. The only one that was a bit borderline was my
claim to have been to several trainings. In fact I have been to one (Sept 99) - however making
this clear would have all but given away my identity, as only two people from that training have
so far left Knowledge. In addition to that training, I worked at several others as a staff member,
and have interviewed numerous premies and exes who have been to others still. I will use all this
information to write my next post, on the trainings.

On other occasions, I actually downplayed my information to protect my identity. For example Scott
Ritter himself, and not an intermediary, approached me, early this year, about his brief to employ
'radical new approaches' to countering EPO.)

My name is John Macgregor. My DOB is 11/11/51. My home address, for writs and cyberstalking
purposes, is 36 Peter Street, South Golden Beach, NSW 2483 Australia. (Please be careful with
explosives, anthrax, etc, as I often have premies down from Amaroo as my houseguests.) My vocation
is journalist: I write for newspapers in Australia and the US. My phone and fax number is 61 2
6680 5509. My email address is johnmac@turboweb.net.au. I'm not sure if anyone wants my hat size
or inside leg measurement, but these can be obtained on application.
I am already well-known to the FBI, as I interview them on a regular basis in the course of my
work in US politics - so I would request that cyberstalkers cite them the above details carefully,
for identification purposes. The Miami Field Office knows me best, however Special Agent Steve
Berry and SA Michael Bonner (among many others) in the Hoover Building will also be able to
assist. Additionally, Attorney General Ashcroft (ultimate boss of the FBI) is familiar with my
work on FBI matters, as is Rep. Dan Burton - Chairman of the US House of Representatives Committee
on Government Reform, which has ultimate law enforcement oversight responsibility. My friend James
C Wilson, the House Committee's Chief Counsel, may also be a good person for cyberstalkers to
approach, as he and I have co-operated extensively on matters relating to the Bureau, and he knows
my background pretty well already. (Indeed the House Committee's most recent hearings on
FBI-related matters - which I recently attended in Washington - employed extensive evidence that
had been obtained by yours truly.)

Cyberstalkers could send information on me to any one of the above - or, of course, to a person of
your own choosing. If it is desired to contact the Australian authorities as well, can I suggest
the Australian Federal Police as the first stop? (Maybe Beryl Janz, National Media Office, could
point you in the right direction.) Or, to cover all federal law enforcement avenues, you could
just go straight to the office of the Prime Minister, John Howard, who has final responsibilty for
Australian law enforcement matters, and whom I interviewed for four of Australia's major daily
papers, late last year, on the subject - happily enough - of law enforcement.

Finally, if the sponsors of CAC and its sister sites care to contact me directly, I can also help
you out with your spelling.

Here's a little of my premie background:

I received knowledge at the age of 20, and practised it till just short of my 49th birthday. I
first spent time with Maharaji when he was 14: in Sydney on October 6, 1972, I sat in his bedroom
and watched him sit on his single bed and repair a reel-to-reel tape recorder, for about an hour.
Over his door was a large sign saying 'The Lord of the Universe'. I don't recall him asking anyone
to take it down - but no doubt I missed this, as the EV website has made it very clear that he
never claimed to be God.

In years subsequent to that I helped organise Australian tours, including the 'Second Coming' tour
of the mid-1970s, whose dates changed continually, and for which Maharaji eventually didn't show
up. (When Christians asked why all the dates on our placards were different, I quoted them the
Gospel of Matthew: 'Thou shalt not say what hour thy Lord doth come.')

I have opened doors for him, rolled out carpets, and set up backstage areas. I spent a week with
him in a training in September 1999. I worked at his Residence in Brisbane through most of the
1990s - sometimes living there for weeks at a time, both when he was there and when he wasn't. In
a spectacular lapse of judgement, I even tried to crack onto Monica Lewis at the gate one day -
possibly my most embarrassing moment since pranaming to Bhole Ji. I also (less often) worked
around the original Amaroo residence, or 'Lodge', and his new one at the 'Windmill'.

As for other service: I established DLM in South Australia in January 1973, and was community
co-ordinator there for three years; established DLM/EV's national legal structure in 1974 (still
in place); worked with Bestway in the early 1990s, getting people to and from the large Amaroo
events; at Amaroo '97 I oversaw the five sales shops, and the purchasing warehouse, helped with
the registration package, arranged the site-wide electronic purchase system, helped get a
recycling system up, and supervised the post-event de-briefing process. Thereafter, I precipitated
the Amaroo Mutiny of 1997-98.

Having spent most of the proceeds of the sale of my house ($A50,000+) working at Amaroo
self-supported, I withdrew from full-time service after the Mutiny - tho more from poverty than
disillusionment. The last service I did was to co-manage the travel for the Amaroo fundraisers'
conference a year ago - tho my heart had gone out of service to Maharaji by then, and I didn't do
much of a job.

'Pam' has sometimes adopted a flippant tone. But underneath this there is a heart cloaked in
sadness that all my hopes and dreams in regard to Maharaji and Knowledge - which have been the
focus of my adult life - have been broken. The destruction of one's idol is not a pleasant thing.
The sadness is very real, and you just have to accept that it will permeate your life for a while.

I don't particularly want be going through this transition. But after the revelations of M's
covering up Jagdeo's crimes against children - indeed his continuing to reward Jagdeo with high
office - I didn't really have a choice. How could anyone remain in an organisation that sanctifies
the rape of children?

The bicyclist and the blondes were the icing on the cake.
The candles which illuminated the cake were my growing understandings about cult psychodynamics,
and my growing grasp of projection: how easily we can confer divinity and compassion (to say
nothing of authority) on another human being. With all this unravelling at once, the game, quite
literally, was up.

I'll write more about all this in the coming posts.

These posts sometimes get emailed to and among premies, so I'll include the URL of the Ex-Premie
Organisation - www.ex-premie.org - so those premies who wish to can safely explore the facts about
Maharaji's real life and work, in EPO's excellent archives.

And I'll bury Pam now, and post hereafter in my own name.

As I said, I'll now write four more posts, each on an aspect of Maharaji's work and mission:

1. Mindfuck (Maharaji's trainings)

2. Rape (A little more on Jagdeo)

3. Plunder (Divine finances)

4. Annihilation (Maharaji's fast-declining Western empire)

Best Wishes to all,

John

the artist formerly known as Pam

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 04:44:55 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Yes, it's a hard pill to swallow
Message:
Although the effects of exiting the cult will be painful at times,it is well worth it. You are also doing quite a service (whoops!) to those beings still under Maharaji's influence.
Are you afraid of Maharaji going off the deep end and trying something especially tricky when he realizes the gig is up? You know him better than I do thank God!
Best of luck and thank you for such a well thought out post.

A long ago exited premie and never a PAM, never-the-less, I would love to see the bastard receive his due. Gad, how long does one have to wait for justice?

Thanks again and hang in there,\
Tonette

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 20:20:48 (EST)
From: Jim S.
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Thank you John, and...
Message:
John-

Thank you so much for your eloquent and moving post.
I knew from the tone of the first one that you were sincere, and were going through a lot with your exit.

It gets easier, at least that has been my experience with it.
I think the most difficult part is just before leaving, and everything after that is liberating...angry and hurt at first, but gradually subsides into wonderful feelings of freedom, liberation, personal emotional/psychological understanding, better relationships with everyone, no separation from 'the world' (and no need to), real inner peace, ability to have 'peak experiences' commonly and with no need to rely on m for them, loss of the 'guru filter' in relating to life, better family relationships, and in my case 3 women suddenly chasing after me because they felt I had so much 'soul' (this was especially gratifying, since I had just left the one that I thought gave me 'soul'....nice to see that it really comes from me, not from him)....lots more blessings to count as they come into view...

Thanks again for your honest, heartfelt posts.

An Important Note: When people like you who have been around m for a long time speak out it helps a lot of people...maybe more than you will ever know...

But when you put your name to it, as you have done, it multiplies the power of that action multiple times....I believe it actually takes it from the realm of possible/probable fantasy to concrete reality, which is so important for premies to see....

A few comments:

1-Do you know more about the cac stuff?

2-Do you know more Pams who might speak out now?
Do you have any concrete suggestions how the forum might be more accomodating to that process?

3-In relation to the flood of exiting premies, do you have any suggestions what might enable us to help them?
I think this is a very important point....any ideas?

4-Do you have any idea how m feels at this point, as you seem to indicate that the western empire is crumbling, and m is scratching his head about what to do....

Thank You John,

Jim Sander

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 09:20:27 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: Jim S.
Subject: Thankyou for your thankyou
Message:
Thanks Jim for your response.

I'll try to answer your questions: (Maybe someone can tell me how to italicise questions to distinguish them from my answers...)

1-Do you know more about the cac stuff?

I've posted all I know. M would be behind it personally, as a matter of logic.

EV has been made aware for a few days now that the CAC sites will soon prove to be far more PR trouble than they are worth, and I am hopeful that they will shortly disappear. (Someone told me this has started - can't confirm that.)

2-Do you know more Pams who might speak out now?

Yes, I have been emailed by 2 or 3 PAMs, mini-PAMs and ex-PAMs since posting. I believe they are likely to come out in due course.

EV regards Jagdeo as its biggest PR minus, and I expect it will propel more PAMs and mere Earthlings out the dooor in due course. How could it not?

3. Do you have any concrete suggestions how the forum might be more accomodating to that process?

I'm going to post about this around post 6 (I just posted post 2). In a nutshell, I'd love to see this place have a greater focus on demolishing arguments and not people. Mel Bourne posted above that he came here for ages as a cult apologist: I took a long time to come around too. The ex who won me over to the Devil was very patient with me. When I made a stupid or morally bankrupt argument - as I did, often, and as most premies will do for a while - she demolished the argument - but left me intact, and unshattered, to focus on the process.

We exes can have complete faith in the power of our arguments. They will continue to win people over.

BTW, the personal criticisms which sometimes appear here serve to keep several defectors of my acquaintance from posting: they don't feel safe here. It would be good to make this place safe for everyone. The premies, trolls, et al obviously only come here because they have doubts. Other than the monitors, M has made it clear that they shouldn't be here.

I should add that I tend to be a little romantic about these things, and I am a very recent ex after all - my head is still spinning somewhat - so I don't have total faith in my judgement of this issue. But I can vouch for the fact that the emotional 'danger' of this place helps deter some very interesting people from posting.

3-In relation to the flood of exiting premies, do you have any suggestions what might enable us to help them?
I think this is a very important point....any ideas?

Yeah, it's hugely important. I'll post some of my ideas on this in post 6. At a guess, if it were possible to separate the forum's functions of allowing exes to process their stuff, and giving premies an alternative POV - maybe into two separate forums - that might help. More private, password-protected forums like Recent Exes can only be a good thing, IMO. Maybe one for fence-sitters, with a few non-threatening exes involved in it?

That's just off the top of my head. Rather than an idea from me, what this matter might reallly need is a debate here. I'm sure others can come up with better ideas than mine.

For those who haven't done it, or who can't remember it clearly, I cannot express how vulnerable one feels on leaving K - or in contemplating leaving K. I'll post a list of symptoms on post 6 from standard cult literature: but they are doosies, and post-traumatic stress disorder is extremely common amongst them. Many exiters really needs to be in a cocoon of some sort for a while. Even Maharaji understands that times of transition are fraught with great peril, which is why he gives the aspirants and K-takers such close attention. The same applies on the way out, with bells on.

'The crisis consists of precisely this: the old is dying, and the new cannot yet be born. In this strange interregnum, all manner of morbid symptoms appear.' (Gramsci, from memory)

4-Do you have any idea how m feels at this point, as you seem to indicate that the western empire is crumbling, and m is scratching his head about what to do....

Precisely none. I would imagine he is talking amongst advisors about new strategies for getting things happening again, and about what shape his post-EV mission might take. But that's just a guess. He is extremely resourceful and intelligent, and deeply convinced of his mission. He won't lie down and die for quite a while.

But staving off financial problems will be an impossibility, and I'd expect a serious curtailment of activities and/or a sale of some assets in 2002.

Best regards,

John

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 14:14:54 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: John
Subject: And thanks again, John
Message:
John, among other wise thoughts, you say:
'I'd love to see this place have a greater focus on demolishing arguments and not people.'

I can not agree with you more. We were all once deeply involved and must be compassionate to those still walking behind us.

Thanks for your words of reason, concern and inclusion.

Richard

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 22:08:12 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: gcmacdougall@yahoo.com
To: Jim S.
Subject: Thanks for a great post. Jim:
Message:
Are you the Shipster from three years ago?
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 21:07:38 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Jim S.
Subject: Good post Jim S.
Message:
Ahem, so what is it about you that has 3 women chasing you? Peeked my curiousity, indeed.

I like your questions, especially about accomodating what I also believe to be a big exodus for the cult. I'm hearing lately from Premies who must be lurking. It's cool.

And don't worry guys, I won't OUT you. You are welcome to email me if you just want to touch base, ask questions or talk about your feelings. I have a lot of respect for your concerns and even doubts. It is premie/EV spin that we are out to hurt you. Trust me on that one. I look fwd to hearing from past roommates ;) or other folks.

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 17:52:01 (EST)
From: RichMandrake
Email: mahamindf@aol.com
To: Pam
Subject: John, May I offer My Heartfelt Gratitude..
Message:
To You…and my Friendship and Support also...If you should care for it. I am Blown away by your Post…as I was by your previous one...When I first Read PAM...it was clear to me that She was Brilliant and Insightful and If REAL...a Critical Messenger in unraveling the Maze that Had Trapped Me And Others for Lo these Many Years…

John, your Posts help me see behind the curtain…and understand Maharaji's Charade even more clearly…They are Powerful in their Insight and in their Information….I am sure they are adding to the 'Cognitive Dissonance' reverberating in Premieland…now apparently approaching Critical Mass on an Organizational Level…..Because of that Im Sure that MahaRawat and His appointed henchmen and women will do their best to silence and Discredit you…

For Many years, I have given my loyalty to one not worthy of it…It is still Very painful to Realize how misplaced it was. May I offer just a piece of that Loyalty to you , John, and other PAMs who are courageous enough to Speak the Truth. Thank you for Speaking Up and having the Courage to put yourself and your name out there. If there is anyway I can be of assistance to you, please do not hesitate to ask…Warmest Regards, RichMandrake.

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 14:10:05 (EST)
From: david m
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Thank You incredable nt [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 14:09:53 (EST)
From: david m
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Thank You incredable nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:36:37 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Thanks John.
Message:
Thanks for your candid honesty John. Posts like yours have a big effect. It's powerful writing that can change lives.

I'm looking forward to your future posts.

I too posted anonymously when I first discovered the forum. It was a premie pal who persuaded me to use my own name.

Keep 'em coming Pam.

Anth Ginn, heresy to order.

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 01:42:48 (EST)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: You ask the best question:
Message:
'Can a good tree bear rotten fruit?'

The whole tragic mess of thousands and thousands of well-meaning, idealistic and trusting souls having been ensnared into a grotesquely dysfunctional, greedy, inept and duplicitous con game led by an megalomaniacal ass -- what bitter fruit indeed.

Maybe I am an old softy, but sometimes I even feel really sorry for M himself. In the long run, he himself has been duped by something, the idea of his 'divinity', and it has created a monster. He has been trapped by the legend for which he was groomed and later eagerly assumed. We see now clearly before us what an unbridled, unchallenged, indulged and pampered ego is: It is one of the ugliest things in the world.

One wonders if in his heart of hearts he knows he is a fraud and a fuck-up. God help us if he doesn't. God help him if he does.

Thank you for one of the most compelling posts I've ever seen here. May your healing and resolution continue to bring peace to your heart and encouragement to all others who come to these dialogues for help and perspective on their cult-centered lives.

Best wishes,
Carl

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 00:23:35 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Re: The Second Coming
Message:
All I can say is 'oh my god' and thank you. Thank you very much for coming forward.

It is amazing to me that when a premie comes to these realizations, the deepest part and indeed best part, of a human being comes with such deep sadness and disappointment. This, to me, is a testiment to the magnificance of the best part of each of us that went on this odyssey for the lord incarnate. That's what we put on those arti trays, not ghee and flower petals. Our hearts, our lives, our souls.

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 00:14:14 (EST)
From: Mel
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Thanks John..
Message:
.. for your heartfelt comments and sincerity.

I knew you many years ago and your intelligence and dry wit are still very strong. Unlike you, I haven't been closely involved with Maharaji and EV for many years, but have been quietly supportive of him in the background. I have been a contributor here as a 'Maharaji apologist' for 3 years or so, but certainly the Dettmers revelations and the Jagdeo issue catalysed a 'rethink' regarding Maharaji.

Your 'exiting' seems to be quite sudden and painful compared to mine, I have the embarrasment of ferociously arguing the toss with some ex's here over the years and indulging some ridiculous intellectual contortions to maintain my point of view, contortions that even I was aware of as I was performing them! The Dettmers stuff last Xmas and his evident sincerity changed my perception.

Your comments brought a lot of memories back to me and I sincerely hope that you survive this transition well.

Take care

Mel (I'm still much too embarrassed to reveal my id)

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 11:06:22 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mel
Subject: Want to do something helpful, Mel?
Message:
Mel,

You now admit what we all knew for years, that you were lying all along when you made those ridiculous arguments in Maharaji's defence. You put any of us who tried to reason with you through outrageous frustration with your 'intellectual contortions'. And why? Because you thought you could lie your way through it all.

Here's a constructive suggestion that I hope you can seriously consider notwithstanding its source: why don't you go back through the archives and find a bunch of your bullshit apologist posts? Repost them but this time with commentary explaining what you were really thinking as you lied and dissembled to save your then- (lucky you!) Master. You're an intelligent guy and good writer and I have no doubt that that exercise might have a truly salutory affect on any premies reading the forum. That would be something, don't you think?

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 08:07:20 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Mel
Subject: Hi Mel
Message:
Dear Mel -
I won't comment regarding the intellectual contortions :), but I have always appreciated the tone and sincerity of your posts - and your integrity and kindness.

Take care - and hope all is well with you -
Love,
Katie

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 11:43:27 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: How can you say that?
Message:
Katie,

By his own admission, Mel was consciously fucking with the truth:

I have the embarrasment of ferociously arguing the toss with some ex's here over the years and indulging some ridiculous intellectual contortions to maintain my point of view, contortions that even I was aware of as I was performing them!

He was accused of doing exactly what he now admits hundreds of times and always denied it. That's called 'lying' which, last time I looked, was hardly sincere. Hm?

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 22:35:49 (EST)
From: Confusious Say
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Wise Man Sometimes F**Ks with
Message:
Truth while he is figuring out how to Leave Lady Falsehood
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 17:11:35 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Sheesh, Jim!
Message:
I acknowledged that in my post. What I did appreciate is his support of Susan and Abi, and his general support for human rights (even in EV) and I think they appreciated that too. The mental gymnastics re Maharaji don't mean all that much to me compared to that.

Wanna lock this thread? (Snicker!)

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:20:00 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Right on Jimbo
Message:
We could tell he was a lying dog. :)
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 16:04:52 (EST)
From: Cult Spotter
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Excuse me, but weren't you LEAVING...
Message:
Or don't you ever say what you mean, and mean what you say? A retorical question, since you never do leave, you just change personalities. How embarassing for you (but of course, you don't think so).
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 00:49:00 (EST)
From: cult member
Email: None
To: Cult Spotter
Subject: Yea but YOU LEAVE and then return.
Message:
You just don't get it do you?

BUT KEEP ABUSING, IT WORKS WONDERS FOR YOUR SOUL

Like leaving anything traumatic, it takes time to leave this particlar forum cult. It's a gruelling time of loss and confusion.

I've stopped spending hours on the net, then went to half an hour. Now my Doc has put me on a diet of ten minutes forum a day. This will then be reduced to 5, 3 and so on.

I'm sorry if my presence here is making you feel uncomfortable.
It shouldn't be too long before I'm just a distant, if rather unpleasant, memory.

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 20:55:46 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Cult Spotter
Subject: Re: Excuse me, but weren't you LEAVING...
Message:
Yeah! Didn't you say you were leaving and taking all your multi alias whackos back from whence you came. Surely, it was would better time spent talking about your beautiful expereince with all the spiritual deep folk at Lies Great.

Heard they talk about Forum VII and how PAM is not a real person all the time. Must be blissful, not a waste of time, like here. But Oh! All they do is talk about here. Well Go figure.

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 03:13:40 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Mel
Subject: Come on Mel, we're all embarassed
Message:
.......but we've also have got our self-respect back. Sounds like you are starting to enjoy standing on your own two feet.
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 00:11:35 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Thanks, excellent ... but why just 4?
Message:
John,

You're a good read and yes, I like the rest, really appreciate the contributions. Sorry to hear how difficult transition's been for you. It's been so long for me I can barely relate. However, interestingly, I can relate, even given the time. That's one hell of a deep tatoo we got.

I just would urge you to not set such a short and definite horizon on your activity here. At the end of the day, these are the people who walked that walk with you. We're all vets of the same war hanging down at the legion. You earned your lifetime membership, might as well use it.

Thanks again,

Jim

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 00:00:23 (EST)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: Pam
Subject: Congratulations, John
Message:
And thankyou for sharing your experiences. I'm very sure that the coming years will bring the expressed gratitude of many people living inside and outside of Oz who will find the courage to face their own emotional issues binding them to the cult after reading your words.

I am also very glad to see that you want your experiences to be included as a permanent part of the information available on EPO.

You've made a big difference in the lives of many people - most of whom you will never know.

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 23:08:08 (EST)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Re: The Second Coming
Message:
thanks john. i felt your saddness beneath the word well before the ending. i certainly is not easy for anyone (of us) to come to grips with so many years of giving our power away to someone else. i applaud your courage and wish you the best in the continued unravelling of your story/life. there is life after the cult. there is personal power to be enjoyed and celebrated after so many years of fear. (yes, your point re fear is well taken and so very true...as the real ruler not love in the dynamics of the master/devotee).

and over time you will enjoy your friends more...connect with them more honestly and truely because there will not be this mythological person we always had to deflect everything to...that separated us from each other. what a pity those wasted years in that regard were. and there is/will be saddness in leaving some old friends behind who cannont make the transision into their own lives and power at this time. in my experience that can be a hard and sad bit. but such is life and uneven growth.

and on the other side will perhaps for you (for me) the kernals of truth that the whole show is wrapped in...the truth that we are great and beautiful and full of life...and it can be experienced within inside us all the time. that we are love and worthy of love. that we can serve the higher good still without giving our power away. finding that we do not have to go thru anyone else or pray to anyone else to have our truth is very liberating indeed.

best of it all pal.

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 11:44:59 (EST)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: damn donner you said IT !!!!
Message:
and it can be experienced within inside us all the time.

YOU ARE HEREBY DOCKED FIFTY DOLLARS (US) FOR ILLEGAL USE OF LANGUAGE !!!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
you can send it directly to my bank account via paypal...thanks (snicker)

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 13:11:25 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: On the subject of paypal...
Message:
Dontcha need some outhouses with golden fixtures up there in rural Washington for you and Patty to set upon during the cold northwestern winter? Whose going to be your Yoram Weiss, geRrY?

Love, your pal, but not yet your paypal, Marianne

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 13:40:51 (EST)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: On the subject of paypal...
Message:
Dontcha need some outhouses with golden fixtures up there in rural Washington for you and Patty to set upon during the cold northwestern winter? Whose going to be your Yoram Weiss, geRrY?

Love, your pal, but not yet your paypal, Marianne


---

Yes I was telling Patty about Yoram Weiss this morning. She thinks Bill Burke might be the right choice for me. What do you think?

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 13:45:16 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: No, my vote goes to...
Message:
Bjorn! That way you can fleece the EU exes too! And he has such a great bedside manner. You'll soon be rolling in so many golden toilets that you'll be able to start a collection, and compete with Captain Rawat's watch collection.

Love, Marianne

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:37:51 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: LOLOL gErRy! NT
Message:
Bad boy, Donner...
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 21:51:22 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Yuck !
Message:
You say:

'I have been hanging out with a lot of premies lately. None of them has ever heard of Jagdeo, or
the Delhi bicyclist, or the blondes. For me, this has been a real insight into the information
restrictions within Maharaji's world.'

Well, I was one of the hoi polloi who knew nothing at all about this stuff until I got connected to the internet. Are you implying that anybody who was anyone knew these things all along? If so how could they keep on believing in Rawat's divinity?

I kept on with it because my 'practice'was pleasant(even though I usually fell asleep),& I got a high from the events. Going to somewhere like Rome in November,meeting people from times long past, it's a blast if you can afford to do it. The old days of penal servitude are a dim memory & everyone gets off on the cosmic joker's stage show. Chuck in a few hours sightseeing,a good dinner or two,& you've had yourself a weekend break to die for.

You do it because you believe that M is divine in some way, you want to be with the divine,then you find out that however far you stretch the definition it snaps when people tell you what the guy is really like.

How come those who knew what he was like kept up the facade?
Maybe we should have a war crimes tribunal.....joke.

You say:

'Discovering Maharaji's real nature is definitely a tricky business. Of course, given the basic
facts, it would take a fair-minded outsider about thirty seconds. But we are not outsiders: we
have been extensively re-wired at the pre-logical level of our psyches.'

30 seconds, exactly so, it didn't take this outsider or many more like me to make our minds up once we had the information.

Thanks for your contribution.You must've had the blinkers set on straight ahead if you knew all these things but still believed,& that is a serious misfortune.

Looking forward to your future posts: Pat Dorrity

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 21:29:31 (EST)
From: Marie of Romania
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: The Second Coming + the First Going
Message:
John:

Thank you. I would have thought, after the first CAC attack and the subsequent renewed resolve of some exes to continue speaking truth to fiction about M, that EV would have known better than to attack again. I am glad you responded in the manner you did, so EV perhaps can learn that lesson this time around.

You said, 'Unbelievably for those of us who have come back through the looking glass, these are questions which all premies have great difficulty in answering. Some of these people have astronomical IQs.'

I agree. I know some very intelligent premies, but what must be considered in this situation is that there's an intellectual IQ and an emotional IQ. A diminished emotional IQ is what allows premies to live with cognitive dissonance.

Thanks again, and I certainly look forward to your future posts.

Marie of Romania ~) (couldn't resist)

EV Monitor: Regards to JMB and DM

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 08:24:59 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Marie of Romania
Subject: Greetings, Marie
Message:
(Intriqued by the title of your post, of course!)

This is one section that really grabbed me in John's post and I think it's relevant to what you said. BTW, I agree about the intellectual IQ vs the emotional IQ - I've suffered from the same problem myself over the years and still do at times, abeit fortunately not around Maharaji.

...at least one recent member of M's personal staff, who has seen some appalling behavior by M, has in her head 'another Maharaji, whom I don't want to know about', whom she separates mentally and emotionally from the 'real Maharaji' - which is about as good as dissociative thinking gets, I guess; and that many PAMs work this same dynamic by saying, 'I love Maharaji, but I don't like Prem Pal Singh Rawat at all'.

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 11:40:35 (EST)
From: Marie of Romania
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Greetings, Katie
Message:
Yes, Katie, having 'another Maharaji' in one's head is where the rubber meets the road. We've all had emotional IQ problems, so wipe away the tracks of those tears. ~) ~) Having a diminished emotional IQ is THE only way one can remain in a cult. None of us is stupid people, premies included, of course, since we were once them.

Must attend to my kingdom now....

;)

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 17:09:24 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Marie of Romania
Subject: Hi Marie
Message:
I keep thinking you might be Francesca - since she's also fond of the ~) head (so is Sir D, for that matter). Have we ever spoken before?

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 00:54:14 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Off vis mein hett ~)
Message:
Katie,

Marie wasn't me, but I'm willing to share my head, as long as it isn't with 2 version of Maha mind fuck! :)

Francesca

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 20:22:57 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Thank you, John . . .
Message:
for your honesty and candor. I hope that you find a way to rediscover yourself outside of M's influence and that you find peace in your new life.

Best wishes,
Susan Stein Pszenitzki

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 03:09:55 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Suedoula
Subject: Thank you, SusanSP for...
Message:
.....fearlessly adding your name to the rollcall. I truly appreciate that.

Patrick Conlon

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 10:33:55 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: I am Spartacus. No, I am Spartacus
Message:
I also appreciate you stating your name, as well as John McGregor doing the same, particularly as a response to these EV-sponsored underhanded activities. It takes courage all around.

Thanks

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:30:55 (EST)
From: GGG
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Re: I am Spartacus. No, I am Spartacus
Message:
God m just gets worse and worse by the minute, thanks for telling us all this and best wishes for your recovery from the cult.
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 20:00:39 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Thank you so much John NT
Message:
t
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 19:56:47 (EST)
From: Joe Whalen
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Thank You
Message:
That was a very hearfelt, and very intelligent, post.

I agree with you completely that the ultimate test of a cult member is the inability to criticize the cult leader. Great amounts of energy are expended to prevent that from ever happening.

What I think is particularly damaging about that, is that cult members then internalize the blame, anger and resentment, that should be directed at Maharaji, at themselves, and to a certain extent at each other.

I think it's wonderful you see that. I left the cult because I was miserable, but it took me a while, after leaving to figure that out. It is amazing that as humans we can have such HUGE blindspots when it comes to projecting divinity onto another person. It must be something very primal in us that wants to do that, and then protect the projection at all costs.

I can't wait to see what else you have to say. You are doing a wonderful thing for your fellow former cult members, John. Information is so freeing and empowering to people. And the more people can get free from that stultifying system, the better.

Joe Whalen

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 19:27:42 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Incredible !!
Message:
What an amazing catharsis, It took great strength and courage to post this.

Thank you John, I go forward from here inspired

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:51:19 (EST)
From: bill burke
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Thank you John [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:55:16 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: bill burke
Subject: someone insert this post on all the forums
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:57:00 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Already on LG [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:31:42 (EST)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: thank you (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:11:39 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Hey John.....
Message:
Hi mate

You're about 8 months older than me and I got K at 22 not 20 but like you hung around those lotus tootsies for over a quarter of century.

When I walked away from it all and when I went public , it wasn't such a big deal for me. I never was a PAM but I'm sure I would have exited just as I actually did. At times I can be a hard-skinned,individualistic type. I can well understand we all exit decades of premiedom in slightly different ways and can also well understand the sensitivity of some people.

Anyway, hope you settle in here and enjoy yourself ....I'm about to take my leave for quite some time. If I do return, I'll catch upwith you then. Every few months I'll make a point of checking the archives so I'll keep in touch (and read your posts).

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 15:59:01 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: WOW! Thank you so much...
Message:
Thanks for comming out with your real name, it's made all the difference. Your posts as ''Pam'' were indeed interesting, but they mean so much more now with a real name. I've just had my own name added to the CAC list recently. Having you step forward with this information at this time, using your real name, has been very helpful, inspiring even. The cult is trying to scare us into silence, but they can't harm us if we all stand together.

I understand the difficulty of making the transition away from Maharaji, one doesn't become involved in something like this for 30 years, and just walk away unscathed. A certain amount of pain is unavoidable, especially in the begining. But I can assure you, it does get easier and better with time. I left 10 months ago, and it was worth the initial pain and discomfort, to be where I am now; free of all the nonsense, restriction, lies and secrecy. The only ''rotting vegetables'' are the lies and concepts M put in our heads to manipulate us. I say, let them rot, and become the compost for something much better and real to grow in their place. Even in your present pain, you will find new joys, and a new life awakening for you. I'm enjoying life more than ever now. And I wish the same for you.

Thanks so much for sharing what you know. I look forward to reading more of your posts, John. Welcome to F7!

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 15:56:25 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: I knew you were for real
Message:
Hi John,

Nice to witness your outing. How brave of you to mention all those personal details about yourself. And, yes, I absolutely feel it is in the safety (not expectation) to contact all authorities regarding CAC.

Even if nothing can be successfully accomplished, the reports are there and when the folders of CAC swell to the ripened level, it will be pursued.

I think this is the death rattle of the MAHA cult. You have our sympathy and best of all, our understanding for what you are going through, pal. That was one of the most confronting and disorienting emotions I had when the LightBulb went on (even after drifting over a decade) about the 'you were in a cult'. I repressed a lot of cult idealology and 'vows' and stuff and reflected on M & K as a spiritual awakening that held the best memories of my life. Only to have them shot down and invalidated. How truly debasing.

glad you are here and out in the open and your FBI info RULES.

Enough for now, you have lots to read.

fondly,

deb, previous bliss bunny now a jack ass

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 15:30:47 (EST)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: who is this masked man
Message:
Come on, John, how can we possibly evaluate the veracity of your writings without knowing your inside leg measurement, and your hat size is crucial, it covers your cranium, you know.

I have the pleasure of counting John a friend, I know him well, as a premie, he was often an oasis of sanity and friendliness in the craziness of event preparation, as a friend he has never ever let me down. He kept talking with me when I became roadkill on the road to salvation, he kept talking with me when I became an ex, he still talks to me now!

Not so surprising when you consider the man is a writer, can't help himself, wrote an excellent novel, called Propinquity, which won an award, and just recently popped down to Sydney to pick up the prestigious George Munster award, which is given annually for the best piece of investigative journalism.

I have sat in halls on more than one occasion, and listened as Maharaji, in uneqivocal terms, stated that he reads all his mail, I think I can now accept that he was lying.

Thanks John, for what?, for being you; it is a fine pleasure indeed to read the inmost thoughts of such a fine man. Love Lesley

Um, JHB, on the subject of aussie slang; if you say you crack INTO Monica, it sounds like you are attempting to break into a safe, or a house, but if you say crack ONTO Monica, you are indeed attempting to strike up a, ahem, romantic liaison!

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:49:45 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Lesley
Subject: Thanks for the language lesson:-)
Message:
I had to go back to John's post as I couldn't believe I misquoted him. So Monica must be (several male descriptions of attractive women deleted) quite attractive. Anyone have a picture?

John.

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 15:29:27 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunnie
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: One more thing..............
Message:
Hi Again John,

I have to ask - did he actually shoot the rabbits or just scare them off?

I have drunk his congnac, shared his marlboroughs (I don't smoke - but it was prachar after all!), shared his table as he consumed meat and have enjoyed his lewd jokes. I have known about Barbie Doll for years. I could well imagine once taking the rap for the cyclist he knocked down and killed (holy martyr springs to mind -arrgghhhh).

But blasting bunnies? There's a chasm between generally anaestheticising oneself and premeditated murder of defenseless bunnies.

Nottingham Bunnie

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 09:47:13 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunnie
Subject: Maharaji Shooting Rabbits??!!!??
Message:
Hello John,

After I read your post I was wondering about those bunnies you said Maharaji shot. Did he kill them? Well, if so, did he at least eat them? If he ate them, I can accept shooting them. Were they in a cage? If so, that's utterly sicko stuff.

Sounds a bit like Jim Jones of the Peoples Temple--sadistic and cruel, even toward innocent four-legged creatures, not to mention those of us who stand upright.

Cynthia, who can't take a walk in the forest because we're in the midst of hunting season in Vermont (where folks at least eat what they shoot).

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 11:26:17 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunnie
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: apologies to Cynthya OT
Message:
Hi Cynthia,

My apologies - below I have addressed you as Celia - the name of a friend staring at me from my mobile - who I was about to ring!

Love

Nottingham Bunnie

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:35:38 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunnie
Subject: No Apology Required...OT
Message:
You must be a little psychic...it's my Mom's name.

Good mistake!

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 11:17:01 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunny (x Mole)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Bunny Massacre
Message:
Hi Celia

I emailed John directly because I, too, was so shocked by this part of his post. He is probably deluged by now and, in case he dosen't have the time, I am sure I would not be breaking protocol if I posted his response. This is the part of his reply that referred to the bunnies:

'The guy who gave M his rifle told me that M
took it out and 'shot rabbits' with it on the hill above Amaroo. I
presume that he occasionally hit one, tho I wasn't there to say for
sure.

Some people were quite shocked by the bunny-shooting............'

If there are any witnesses out there, I would sure like to hear from them. Perhaps to many posters this would not appear to be a significant issue. But for some still in the fold, or on the edge, this could be a final push.

Nottingham Bunny (x Mole)

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 17:06:54 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunny (x Mole)
Subject: This part most bothered me too
Message:
I guess we have something in common. I AM a vegetarian, but for animal rights - rather than health reasons. Everyone where I live hunts, so although I don't like it, I've learned to accept it. But I despise 'shooting at animals' (especially if you aren't a good shot, don't try and find wounded game, and don't eat what you kill.)

BOO on you, Maharaji.

Katie

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:20:58 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunnie
Subject: Shagging 'em, shooting 'em, all the same to him
Message:
I would imagine,

but at least now we've cleared up that it's brunettes he fancies not blonds.

So as a meat eater would you say he's the carnivorous kind, rare, blood dripping, or the fastidious?

He sounds bty nature fastidious, the stuff about the flies fits, but then can imagine him being the gross casrnivorous type.

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:43:44 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunnie
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Shagging 'em, shooting 'em, all the same to him
Message:
Hi Hamzen

To me there is a difference between a shag and a shoot. I will see you in a new light now.

As you know, I am not a meat eater (I'm a bunnie) so I think you were describing him. The time I actually sat with him it was in a very exclusive establishment where they serve very little on the plates! I would agree the fastidious - also on that occasion with the rare congnac (which is probably why I enjoyed so much of that particular prachar!) it was practically brought out of the safe! Marlboroughs are a bit common though aren't they? LOL NB

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 14:43:07 (EST)
From: Cynthia Gracie
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Thanks so Much!
Message:
Dear John,

Thank your for your courage. I never expected you to reveal your identity so soon, but as you will find, stating your name is part and parcel of exiting the cult. Facing that fear then overcoming it is so refreshingly freeing.

I hope you don't get hassled by anyone from the cult, such as Scott Ritter. I knew him a long time ago and he's quite a comlex character, a lifer, unfortunately. You refer to him as some honcho these days. I'm interested to know what he does and how much of a ''PAM'' he is.

Thanks again...I'm printing your post so I can read it again without staring at my monitor with these middle-aged eyes.

Also, let us know if you start getting harrassed. Something must be done about that aspect of Maharaji's con.

Best wishes,
Cynthia Gracie

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 10:18:34 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: Cynthia Gracie
Subject: Scott R et al
Message:
Hi Cynthia,

I think Scott's involved in the PR/web-writing side of things. I don't think he's a PAM.

I actually found him very likeable, tho we only met on 2 or 3 occasions.

I haven't been harassed, and don't really expect to be under the circumstances.

Best Wishes,

John

PS: As I emailed Scott T today, I think Scott R is not the UN weapons inspection guy. This Scott R is a writer.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 11:53:30 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: John
Subject: Re: Scott R et al
Message:
Hi John,

Thanks for the info...I was curious about Scott Ritter. He's not the UN guy. Scott does come off as very nice, but as I said, he's a complex person and would do anything for M. The niceness is often a facade....

That's all. Again, thank you for your courage and hang in there with the exiting part. It can get quite painful, but as so many here have stated, life without m and the cult is like waking up to a beautiful new life. My thoughts are with you in your journey out.

Best,
Cynthia Gracie

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:54:13 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Cynthia Gracie
Subject: Re: Thanks so Much!
Message:
Im sorry you had to endure scotts world at all.
He did start the thing in hartford way back in 72
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 09:18:42 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: To: Bill Re: Scott Ritter....
Message:
Hey Bill,

It's not about enduring Scotts world anymore, I've gone beyond all that crap. It's about his alleged leadership role in attacks against EPO and F7 members, ala CAC. Wonder why I'm not on the new list???? Because I know a lot of stuff, maybe....hmmmmm

Sounds like Scott finally ''made'' it in M's world...wonder what mommy and daddy would think???? Naw, I'd never contact his parents, they're too elderly to have to worry about an emotionally developmentally delayed cult member son who's about 50!

Nice to see you here Bill...How are you?

Love,
Cynthai

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:06:01 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: To: Bill Scott Ritter....
Message:
Hi Cynthia,
I have been thinking of approaching his older brother about an intervention.
His family should read the site and come together to do a rescue.
I was thinking of volunteering to assist.
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 14:32:54 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Pam
Subject: Big ta, John. Excellent. Happy now, pwk's? [nt]
Message:

[ Nigel ]
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 14:02:52 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: My humble apologies and heartfelt thanks
Message:
My first reaction to your Pam post was totally uncalled for. I guessed it was you and felt annoyed. It also came at a bad time when the forum was struggling with anonymous cult apologists such as Roupell the con artist formerly known as SC/MK et al.

John, your post brought tears to my eyes because it is so filled with your disappointment and disillusionment. I just hope you will forgive me for being so nasty to you last time.

If I was the cause of any harassment towards you by EV, I apologise. Your references to Oz in your first Pam post and my conviction that it was you made me draw attention to your location.

Because I am out and have been a CAC victim I tend not to have much sensitivity to people wishing to protect their identities. Please accept my apologies for my lack of empathy.

All I can add is that I hope that you will discover, as I did, that it is empowering to be out and fearless.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 10:23:14 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Ta
Message:
No problem, Pat. Let's kiss and make up next time I'm in San Francisco.

In the meantime, stay away from those bridges.

Best Wishes,

John

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 21:24:05 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: I just KNEW IT
Message:
before I opened your sickly post I thought,

...guess who Pat will blame, guess who Pat will be using as his scapegoat excuse this time?

ME!

Fuck man, you are so predictable...

And it is a sad sad weakness you have that has you forever palming off your inexcusable behaviour TOWARDS SOME PEOPLE as a reaction to a darker greater menace that may be distracting you. You were not struggling with me at all, you are lying, you are using me, the most obvious target, to direct attention away from your stupid foot in mouth blabbering that has constantly landed you in the dogshit. And you don't even have the guts to face that simple fact.

I never thought I d say this Pat, but on the battlefield of life you are a small man, a very small man.

When you apologise and grovel, do it sincerely...

DON'T ATTEMPT EXCUSE YOURSELF AT THE VERY SAME TIME

Now, I'm out of here, really, or maybe, just...well, I did hear that Adrianna Kavortz is considering posting on the forum.

I've heard she's a real live one.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 00:22:56 (EST)
From: Mummiji
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Oh my, Cerise, dear ...
Message:
or should I call you Selena Strumpet? Aren't your knickers tied in a nasty knot! And ... oh NO ... they're soiled!!!

The shamelessness of some people's children!

No lovijis or hugsijis for you, dear! ())

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 00:32:17 (EST)
From: Mummiji
Email: None
To: Mummiji
Subject: Of course ...
Message:
Selena Strumpet is no relation at all to my friend, sweet Selene, whose name you so nastily usurped for your silly hijinx!

Lovijis and hugsijis to the one and only real Selene! ())

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 08:46:32 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: David the hypocrite
Message:
SC (David): When you apologise and grovel, do it sincerely... DON'T ATTEMPT EXCUSE YOURSELF AT THE VERY SAME TIME

Too much! You mean like your 'apology' for posting to a survivor of child sex abuse from a senior cult figure -- I don't care if you were raped by a herd of elephants.

How did Sant David Roupell Ji apologise? Very much later, very inconspicuously, and with an arrogant self righteousness and disregard for the truth! You used words to the effect that the thread where I posted was about to go inactive. Some nasty person reposted it and made my post more conspicuous.

Weasel words, David. Do you know what hypocrite means?

It means Maharaji and premies like you.

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 11:18:06 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: It's true Johnny Tuckerbox
Message:
I REALLY DON'T CARE IF YOU WERE RAPED BY A HERD OF ELEPHANTS
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 11:30:46 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunnie
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Be careful with curses
Message:
Witches believe they come back threefold.

NB

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:29:04 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunnie
Subject: Nottingham's over pal
Message:
It's now....

Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 11:30:46

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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:56:36 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunnie
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Smartarse - I was born in Nottingham! NT
Message:
NT
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 01:05:23 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunnie
Subject: Wow really?
Message:
Is that near Sherwood Forest? I can imagine what it would be like to go for a day's hike through that place, absolutely unbelieveable. I bet there'd be some really interesting things buried under all the leaves and undergrowth.

fucking fascinating...

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 04:37:16 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunnie
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Underwhelmed..........
Message:
...........by your arrogance. There's a name in Old Blighty for people who behave like you; it's 'Sad Git'.
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:43:02 (EST)
From: Cynathia
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: No it's not...It's
Message:
It's now....

Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 12:41 pm

Idiot! I thought you were leaving. Go away, I don't like you.

You don't like me or anyone else. Shoo...dust of his feet....Shoo

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:14:43 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Thanks John
Message:
The word 'thanks' seems inadequate. I honestly have tears in my eyes after reading this. My one trivial question - what does the phrase 'crack into Monica Lewis' mean? Is this 'chatting up'? Perhaps our other Australian contributors can help with translation.

To other readers, my agreement to post John's posts for him proved unnecessary in view of his decision not to be anonymous.

John.

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 14:31:22 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Thanks John and welcome
Message:
John,

Your post is hearfelt, intelligent and witty with not one single word of bitterness or hate. I can't imagine anyone reading this seeing anything but sincerity. You obviously were very devoted to M and his stated goals, as I was, but now see things in a new light. Through your post, I once again mourn the loss of an honorable vision. Thank you for having the courage to speak your truth.

Richard

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 22:40:26 (EST)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: Thanks John and welcome
Message:
thanks john, looking forward to further posts as promised in your own time. dont' you think the mail is opened and checked for money at least? maybe they do things differently down under.
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 09:24:23 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Hi Mike...
Message:
I had the same thoughts about trashing mail. I just know they must be checking those envelopes for cash or checks before they go into the trash.

Pretty cold and crass, eh?

Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 10:33:25 (EST)
From: John
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: hi
Message:
Believe it or not, on the occasions I'm aware of, the mail was not searched for cash. However I'm not saying this doesn't happen on other occasions. The practice was perpetrated by international staff, BTW, so I doubt it's just an Australian thing.

Thanks and best wishes,

John

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 13:08:43 (EST)
From: Nottingham Mole
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Thank you John (PAM)
Message:
Thank you for your time, effort and courage. And thank you also for the promise of more to come.

Warmest regards,

NM

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 12:59:36 (EST)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Pam
Subject: Thanks for your courage (Nt)
Message:
nt())
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 17:22:13 (EST)
From: Zelda :::-)
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: oh. thats dirrerent . thnks + srry. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Nov 06, 2001 at 05:32:04 (EST)
From: salsa
Email: None
To: Zelda :::-)
Subject: Re: oh. thats dirrerent . thnks + srry.
Message:
is either too early or I will never learn english...what are you saying????? hahhahaha

silvia

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 07:08:18 (EST)
From: Fred Newman
Email: newperson@doubts.con
To: All
Subject: Is the Maharaja a Hindu?
Message:
If so, are all these primies going to convert to Buddism now? And are all you ex-primies untouchables?

One of the ex-primies told me that the Maharaja used to be Krishna in the seventies. So that would make him a Hindu god, right? I mentioned this to one of the primies and he said that it was a lie. But I'm sure I saw a pic of the Maharaja dressed in a Father Christmas outfit with a big crown on and with loads of primies kissing his feet.

The primie I spoke to said this wasn't true either. He said ''The bastard scum who told those lies are all part of a hate site.''

Ah, now I understand. You're all Buddists. It's OK, I won't tell anyone.
[ Hindus get fed up with their religion ]

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:19:34 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Fred Newman
Subject: Interesting article, Mr N
Message:
Untouchable? That was always the Maha (except to his inner circle).
[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 20:13:05 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: What a Throwback
Message:
Shit. What the FUCK were we into.

We always thought he was contemplative. He was probably drunk.

Newman, I thought you were a hoax. I was right. Hee heh

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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 12:36:47 (EST)
From: Are you the son of
Email: None
To: Fred Newman
Subject: Alfred E/ Newman? NT
Message:
furschlinger!
[ Arent you Alfred E. ]
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 16:28:37 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Are you the son of
Subject: Surely not. Alfred E Neumann Jr is
Message:
Alfred 'Dubbya' Neumann?
[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 20:14:45 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Very funny [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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